Quote from: shank_ali on December 31, 2008, 12:50Charities are breeding throughout our modern day society like a cancer.

[deleted]

Ali, you are right.

I wonder how all my loans so far have been paid back if the drunks just ran off with the money and evaporated into the slums. Hmm...

Exactly what I was thinking. Mine are making their payments on time so far.

It's exactly why I really like this organization as it is helping people to help themselves and at the same time keep their pride and dignity and ultimately probably not going to cost us anything .

Quote from: whatalife on January 01, 2009, 16:05
I wonder how all my loans so far have been paid back if the drunks just ran off with the money and evaporated into the slums. Hmm...

Quote from: whatalife on January 01, 2009, 16:05I wonder how all my loans so far have been paid back if the drunks just ran off with the money and evaporated into the slums. Hmm...

You are probably right. I'm totally biased since I can see what happens in real, unlike people far away that see the truth and the broader picture on a website. I sinned against my own rule, never mix business (photography) with politics and I will remove my rant in 24 hrs. Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

Quote from: FlemishDreams on January 01, 2009, 16:24

Quote from: whatalife on January 01, 2009, 16:05I wonder how all my loans so far have been paid back if the drunks just ran off with the money and evaporated into the slums. Hmm...

You are probably right. I'm totally biased since I can see what happens in real, unlike people far away that see the truth and the broader picture on a website. I sinned against my own rule, never mix business (photography) with politics and I will remove my rant in 24 hrs. Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur.

lISTEN..you had something to say and i read it well and found it interesting.I feel for any person who is the victim of theft.
nb The givers who have donated and find it rewarding..well done and please keep it up if it helps people who are less fortunate than ourselves.

Guys,

I understand the point-of-view of people who distrust helping people through NGOs, but I don't think this discussion is positive here, nor this is the objective of this thread.  You don't want to loan to Kiva, you don't trust Kiva, it's ok.  But this thread is for people to discuss Kiva loans.

Flemish, comparing the theft you suffered with Kiva loans is not valid.  Kiva is not stealing from us, unless you want to consider the lack of interest in our loans vs the interests the NGOs charge the money borrowers.

Regards,
Adelaide

Quote from: shank_ali on January 01, 2009, 20:01
lISTEN..you had something to say and i read it well and found it interesting.I feel for any person who is the victim of theft. nb The givers who have donated and find it rewarding..well done and please keep it up if it helps people who are less fortunate than ourselves.

The theft issue weakened my point. The main point was about what I have witnessed about charity, both gov and nongov money, on the terrain. And I ended with a positive note that there are nevertheless people around that make it their own way cent by cent with no charity involved at all. But once again, this issue, just like the religious issue some time ago, has nothing to do with photography. Nor have kiva-loans. So I rest my case.

I just saw newspaper today about a store that opened but there are no staff as they all went on holiday. The owner left the store open and an honesty box in the store for people to buy things and give the money. The result, there was no theft and those who bought stuff left the money. I was so gratified when i read the news and i tght wow, that makes me want to believe in human race again!

Where was that?  A lost island?   

Regards,
Adelaide

If anyone is interested, I have just made a loan to these ladies in Camboja:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=82043

Regards,
Adelaide

I am often sceptical towards charities, plenty of the large ones are essentially companies whose business is fundraising and managing the return on the investments of the "foundation"

there are also wonderful "volunteer" programs that costs thousands and then you see that the money is going to one place and the program is essentially a 'front', run on a shoestring budget only to get money in for the underlying organisation...

but I still give small amounts to groups / charities, always anoumously so that I dont get continous requests

I only looked at it last month but personally I like kiva, you are loaning not giving, and it is I think it is a totally different mindset for both parties.  The people receiving know what they need and this targets those needs specifically, and often allows them to produce or increase their income.  I am now allocating $100 month to kiva which my kids each choose someone to lend $25 to. 

our first four are here
http://www.kiva.org/lender/phil3624

Phil

That's exactly what I like about this organization. I have heard so many bad stories about where the money goes when  you give money to charity or sponsor a child but this group seems genuine as they have already started paying money back that I lent a couple of months ago. 
I also plan on doing this as a regular thing.

Quote from: clearviewstock on January 06, 2009, 01:21
I am often sceptical towards charities, plenty of the large ones are essentially companies whose business is fundraising and managing the return on the investments of the "foundation"

there are also wonderful "volunteer" programs that costs thousands and then you see that the money is going to one place and the program is essentially a 'front', run on a shoestring budget only to get money in for the underlying organisation...

but I still give small amounts to groups / charities, always anoumously so that I dont get continous requests

I only looked at it last month but personally I like kiva, you are loaning not giving, and it is I think it is a totally different mindset for both parties.  The people receiving know what they need and this targets those needs specifically, and often allows them to produce or increase their income.  I am now allocating $100 month to kiva which my kids each choose someone to lend $25 to. 

our first four are here
http://www.kiva.org/lender/phil3624

Phil

Phil,

I think it's ok that someone makes a living by running a NGO/charity.  I'm happy to give money to a NGO/charity knowing that they will help people as they propose.

I know a company here whose business is to collect money for charity.  One runs a home for abandoned elders, they collect money for it.  Another runs a support group for HIV-positive adolescents, they collect money for it.  The charities don't have to seek contributors, hire people to collect them, risk losses, etc.  The business is a service to them.  I think it's ok, as long as they don't get a huge chunk of the money I give. 

Congratulations on the loans, it is a great feeling when we see how many different people we can help. If you want, join the Microstockgroup.com Lending Team

Regards,
Adelaide

PS: BTW, folks, the Cambodia loan has not been filled yet:
http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action=about&id=82043

I saw this thread and thought I'd chip in with a recommendation for the book "Banker to the Poor" by Muhammad Yunnus.  He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006, and is widely regarded as the father of microlending.   It's an interesting book and details how he originated the concept in Bangladesh in the early 1970s.  Banks and the government were riddled with corruption, and had no desire to loan money to the people who needed it the most.  And in the very patriarchal society, it was taboo to loan to women.  Yet with microlending he was able to create something that has enabled people, and especially women, to build their own businesses and work their way out of poverty.  Kiva is a different organization, but incorporates many of the same principles.  Kiva's innovation is that it allows individuals to use the Internet and Paypal to fund the loans, rather than governments and traditional banks.

Interestingly, he is very against outright charity for the poor, for much of the same reasons that others have posted in this thread.  It's a very good book.

Quote from: GBlack on January 06, 2009, 23:50
I saw this thread and thought I'd chip in with a recommendation for the book "Banker to the Poor" by Muhammad Yunnus.  He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006, and is widely regarded as the father of microlending.   It's an interesting book and details how he originated the concept in Bangladesh in the early 1970s.  Banks and the government were riddled with corruption, and had no desire to loan money to the people who needed it the most.  And in the very patriarchal society, it was taboo to loan to women.  Yet with microlending he was able to create something that has enabled people, and especially women, to build their own businesses and work their way out of poverty.  Kiva is a different organization, but incorporates many of the same principles.  Kiva's innovation is that it allows individuals to use the Internet and Paypal to fund the loans, rather than governments and traditional banks.

Interestingly, he is very against outright charity for the poor, for much of the same reasons that others have posted in this thread.  It's a very good book.

thanks for that, I'll grab the book and have a read.

madelaide, sorry I wasn't real clear. I am sceptical of a number but definetly not against charities. I have some friends who work for an small environmental ngo, it has 4-5 staff who aren't well paid and wouldnt be able to match there work with volunteers (or have to put there wages into advertising to bring up membership). their budgets are tight because they put as much as possible into their programs etc and they do some great work. I just dislike it when large amounts end up paying high level corporate wages etc.

Regards
Phil

Madelaide.

How much do you have to put in to join the microstock group at Kiva? I have $25AUD in my PayPal account.

Dave

You don't have to put anything in - you can just join the team, then when you make your first loan (US $25) you can count it towards whatever team you want.  It is still listed as your loan and you get the $$ back when the loan is finished, the teams are just sort of a way of having a visual of working together.

http://www.kiva.org/community/viewTeam?team_id=331

Is there a way to add my loans to the team if I have already established a portfolio separately without joining the team? (I started before there was a team)

Whatalife,

I don't think so, as new loans are not even automatically added to a team, you have to select it from a lista, even if you are not a member of more than one team.  Maybe if you ask Kiva staff to make the association?

Regards,
Adelaide 

Quote from: madelaide on January 08, 2009, 14:21
Whatalife,

I don't think so, as new loans are not even automatically added to a team, you have to select it from a lista, even if you are not a member of more than one team.  Maybe if you ask Kiva staff to make the association?

Regards,
Adelaide 

That's what I thought. thanks

I just found a topic on kivafriends forum that confirms it. It can't be done.
http://www.kivafriends.org/index.php/topic,3094.0.html

Oh well, maybe next time... I'm about 3 dollars away from having enough paid back to loan again.

Cool. I joined. Won't be until end of month for first payment.

Dave

if I make a loan and choose for it to be part of the team, does it still appear on my personal page?

Quote from: clearviewstock on January 17, 2009, 06:22
if I make a loan and choose for it to be part of the team, does it still appear on my personal page?

Yes it does!

thanks