MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Occupy Wall Street. A short movie about US government's double standards  (Read 19729 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Slovenian

« on: October 13, 2011, 11:47 »
0
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGRXCgMdz9A&amp;feature=player_embedded" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGRXCgMdz9A&amp;feature=player_embedded</a>


« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2011, 12:20 »
0
Here is what Occupy Wall Street is about:
http://ireport.cnn.com/blogs/ireport-blog/2011/10/13/ireporters-define-occupy-wall-street-movement?hpt=hp_c2

Comparing the Arab Spring to Occupy Wall Street is ridiculous stretch. Wanting jobs and government accountability for their actions regarding bank bailouts in a Federal Republic is far different than risking your life to bring down totalitarian regimes in order to achieve a Democratic government.

New York Mayor Bloomberg has said they can stay and protest as long as they want, btw.

ETA: Definition of Federal Republic (scroll up):
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2128.html#us
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 12:52 by retrorocket »

Slovenian

« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 14:10 »
0
Comparing the Arab Spring to Occupy Wall Street is ridiculous stretch. Wanting jobs and government accountability for their actions regarding bank bailouts in a Federal Republic is far different than risking your life to bring down totalitarian regimes in order to achieve a Democratic government.

New York Mayor Bloomberg has said they can stay and protest as long as they want, btw.


Trying to quiet 'em down, showed that they didn't treat the movement as benign. After using police to force them off the streets, after many arrests were made, after the plan backfired (support for the movement started to grow rapidly), sure, that was the moment when Bloomberg said it was OK. If it really was OK, they would let them protest, like in the rest of the free, truly democratic world (no, not the Middle east, but in Europe). Of course you can't compare USA with totalitarian regimes, but if you look at it that way, you've missed the whole point (I explained it already ;)

« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 14:57 »
0
"Of course you can't compare USA with totalitarian regimes, but if you look at it that way, you've missed the whole point (I explained it already "

That is precisely what your video does. It compares a protest over income inequality and a 9% unemployment rate directly to the Arab spring where people have been murdered in the streets. On Wall Street, there have been a few instances of police violence with batons and pepper spray, but these people have never been told that they can't peacefully protest and they definitely haven't been shot at.

What did you explain already?

Slovenian

« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 15:26 »
0
"Of course you can't compare USA with totalitarian regimes, but if you look at it that way, you've missed the whole point (I explained it already "

That is precisely what your video does. It compares a protest over income inequality and a 9% unemployment rate directly to the Arab spring where people have been murdered in the streets. On Wall Street, there have been a few instances of police violence with batons and pepper spray, but these people have never been told that they can't peacefully protest and they definitely haven't been shot at.

What did you explain already?

First of, it's not my video, I didn't make it. I just think it's something worth looking at, since it concerns all of us. Except Sean perhaps ;D . Methods are the same, government's approach is the same, or better said equal, proportional (sorry I don't know the English word that describes it more accurately). If the protesters would step it up, they would too and bring in national guard. But they are just peacefully protesting all the time, so they couldn't justify use of force on a larger scale (but many were arrested for no reason, surely very undemocratic). That's what I'm trying to explain to you and that is what the video is showing you ;)

« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 16:24 »
0
"First of, it's not my video, I didn't make it. I just think it's something worth looking at, since it concerns all of us."

Sorry, I think it is pointless propaganda. It implies that protesters of 9% unemployment and unfair bank bailouts some how equally compares to people dying for democracy in the Middle East.


"If the protesters would step it up, they would too and bring in national guard."

Step it up to what? Breaking windows and burning buildings. What change would that bring? Moving offices to safer locations?

"but many were arrested for no reason, surely very undemocratic"

I'm sure some were arrested for good reasons and I'm sure some were not. You would have total anarchy without a police force to manage hundreds of thousands of people with no organized leaders.

fujiko

« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 00:36 »
0
That is precisely what your video does. It compares a protest over income inequality and a 9% unemployment rate directly to the Arab spring where people have been murdered in the streets.

No, it doesn't. It compares government speech when a protest happens in a distant and unrelated country with government reaction when a protest happens home. It doesn't compare the reasons behind the protests in any way or the protesters.
An if you really listen the words used in speech "freedom of speech", "exercise their rights", "respect for their own people", you will notice that the reaction is very far away from the speech.

If you want to understand this, go to a protest with a camera and take photos of the reaction. You may end with a broken camera or worse.

And remember one thing. Everything is comparable. That's the whole point behind comparisons, comparing things to see similarities and differences. Even if the comparison hurts your eyes or you feel outraged, everything is comparable.

« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 02:06 »
0

I'm sure some were arrested for good reasons and I'm sure some were not. You would have total anarchy without a police force to manage hundreds of thousands of people with no organized leaders.

Well, that could have been said by Assad's spokesman, or King Hamad's, Mubarak's....

You're wrong when you say you can't compare a protest against unemployment and income inequality with the "Arab Spring", poverty and rising food prices were precisely the things that triggered it (remember the unemployed guy who set himself on fire after being forced to close his illegal stall?).

It doesn't mean the forms of government are equally brutal or arbitrary in treatment of citizens. what it does mean is that the things that people worry about all over the world are not what sort of government rules over them, they are the things that directly affect whether or not they have food for their kids today.

« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 02:55 »
0
@fujiko

Ok, so the video wants people to know that Obama and Hillary are hypocrites for saying people should be able to freely protest in the Middle East and at home they allow the mistreatment of OWS protesters. In middle east, they use guns and tanks and in New York its batons and pepper spray. However, that's not the point, its the hypocrisy that is the point.

Since everything is comparable then it's pretty obvious that we are comparing apples and oranges. If these protesters are just figuring out that you can't trust politicians then someone needs to break the really bad news about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

I'm guessing when they get older and get jobs they'll realize that their pension funds like to invest in high revenue producing Fortune 500 companies like Exxon, Chevron,  and ConocoPhillips.

What will they do then? It will be like investing in Darth Vader and the Evil Empire!

« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 03:31 »
0

I'm sure some were arrested for good reasons and I'm sure some were not. You would have total anarchy without a police force to manage hundreds of thousands of people with no organized leaders.

Well, that could have been said by Assad's spokesman, or King Hamad's, Mubarak's....

You're wrong when you say you can't compare a protest against unemployment and income inequality with the "Arab Spring", poverty and rising food prices were precisely the things that triggered it (remember the unemployed guy who set himself on fire after being forced to close his illegal stall?).

It doesn't mean the forms of government are equally brutal or arbitrary in treatment of citizens. what it does mean is that the things that people worry about all over the world are not what sort of government rules over them, they are the things that directly affect whether or not they have food for their kids today.

If people at OWS were starving and wanting food for their kids then it would be comparable. This protest is mainly twenty somethings wanting jobs that go with their degrees and not crappy retail jobs. The economy sucks right now but it will come back and those jobs will appear. A lot of other folks want to bring down capitalism and replace it with something undefined. Perhaps socialism, communism, or whatever. They're taking a puff and passing it around.

It's not the protest that I have a problem with. I fully support their right to protest. The video implies similarities between the Iranian, Syrian, and US government. That's nonsense.

fujiko

« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 03:36 »
0
@retrorocket

Do you mean that using batons and pepper equals "respecting your own people"?
Violence, in any form, even if it can be considered soft, is not respectful. Never.

Apples and oranges are both fruits, grow in trees, are nutritious. Of course you can compare Apples and Oranges.

I like your comparison of the reasons behind the protest to the belief around Santa and Easter. It's awesome how people resorts to those comparisons to ridiculize something. The point is, you consider an obvious truth that politicians cannot be trusted and then believe that the protesters are like kids believing in Santa in the first place as if they trusted politicians. Know what? They never trusted politicians in the first place but they could live with those politicians because there were jobs, money, food, and a promise for a better future. The protests don't happen because they lost trust on politicians, the protests happen because the latests politics consists only on saving the rich at expenses of the poor, bailouts to save banks or companies that give huge bonuses. That's the reason behind. Because as have been said, people doesn't care the form of goverment above as long as there is a way to live, a job, food and the promise for a better future. For them and their kids.

Another missconception about the protesters is that you believe them to be all young and that. Look again. It's not true.

And your last point, it being like investing in the evil empire, they already know that and they want to change it.

It will grow and spread because things are not going any better and politicians are acting against their own people. It's history unfolding.

« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 03:53 »
0
All political systems are designed to protect the interests of the ruling elite, whether it is a democracy like the US or India or Greece, or a dictatorship like Saudi, or Syria or Burma, or a theocracy like Iran. Revolutions don't liberate people, if successful they install a new elite.

If the American ruling elite believed it was going to be replaced by a new order, I'm sure the response would be just as violent at any Middle Eastern despot's, and the government would justify it by saying it was protecting freedom and democracy against godless anarchists and revolutionaries.

lthn

    This user is banned.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 04:42 »
0

...The economy sucks right now but it will come back and those jobs will appear...


Oh yeah, jobs will just appear :)  I see that's the plan nowadays, lets wait and stuff wil appear... and I see things like that being put as an argument! ROTFL really ,tho I know some wise men here don't like these weird teeny acronyms. Thanks to all that wiseness this is a collapse, and the three centers in the euro - dollar - china triangle area rooting for the others to go down first, so the remaining capitol would flee to them, giving them several good years before they go up in smoke, or maybe this time they og uo in the lack of smoke. : ) Has anybody any news on whether Chavez is getting his gold or not? That could be a new war.

« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 09:01 »
0
I'm all for the Occupy Wall street protests, but I agree that the video is off the mark trying to make the comparison to the Arab spring protests. Also, the police arrests (brutality?) shown in the video has nothing to do with Obama and Clinton, it as to do with the local authorities, the mayor, the police department, the individual police officers. Trying to make the comparison to the Arab Spring delegitimizes the protests IMO. 

m@m

« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 09:48 »
0
Great video Slovenian, thanks for shearing!!!

The 99%

« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 10:46 »
0
@fujiko

"I like your comparison of the reasons behind the protest to the belief around Santa and Easter."

These protesters seem to want some form of socialism to make things more equal, right? That would require an even larger central government. If you can't trust the politicians with allowing free speech, would you be so naive to trust them to equally redistribute all the money from the banks and the rich people?

"The protests don't happen because they lost trust on politicians, the protests happen because the latests politics consists only on saving the rich at expenses of the poor, bailouts to save banks or companies that give huge bonuses."

If the government was smaller and had less power then there would have been no safety net for banks. They would have gone out of business and no CEOs would have received big bonuses at our expense. If we the tax payers put less money into the system then the politicians have less money to spend on their corporate sponsors.

"It will grow and spread because things are not going any better and politicians are acting against their own people. It's history unfolding."

So will this change be the result of all these people voting or something else?

@Ithn

"Oh yeah, jobs will just appear   I see that's the plan nowadays, lets wait and stuff will appear... "

Nice try, but I will explain it to you anyways. The market is cyclical. It expands and contracts. In a recession, businesses cut jobs and during an expansion they add jobs. It's not magic.

What Does Business Cycle Mean?
The recurring and fluctuating levels of economic activity that an economy experiences over a long period of time. The five stages of the business cycle are growth (expansion), peak, recession (contraction), trough and recovery. At one time, business cycles were thought to be extremely regular, with predictable durations, but today they are widely believed to be irregular, varying in frequency, magnitude and duration.

Since the World War II, most business cycles have lasted three to five years from peak to peak. The average duration of an expansion is 44.8 months and the average duration of a recession is 11 months. As a comparison, the Great Depression - which saw a decline in economic activity from 1929 to 1933 - lasted 43 months.

That's from:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/businesscycle.asp#axzz1alrj1Zgd

m@m

« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 11:10 »
0
"10 years ago we had, Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.
Now we have, NO JOBS, NO HOPE AND NO CASH".  ;)

author unknown. -

« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 11:35 »
0
"10 years ago we had, Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.
Now we have, NO JOBS, NO HOPE AND NO CASH".  ;)

author unknown. -

A clever play on words/history but one that has not intellectual merit at all.

m@m

« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2011, 11:46 »
0
"10 years ago we had, Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.
Now we have, NO JOBS, NO HOPE AND NO CASH".  ;)

author unknown. -

A clever play on words/history but one that has not intellectual merit at all.
The quote was not intended to intellectually amuse you...Just a humorous version of the facts.  ;D
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 11:59 by m@m »

lthn

    This user is banned.
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2011, 18:25 »
0
@fujiko

"I like your comparison of the reasons behind the protest to the belief around Santa and Easter."

These protesters seem to want some form of socialism to make things more equal, right? That would require an even larger central government. If you can't trust the politicians with allowing free speech, would you be so naive to trust them to equally redistribute all the money from the banks and the rich people?

"The protests don't happen because they lost trust on politicians, the protests happen because the latests politics consists only on saving the rich at expenses of the poor, bailouts to save banks or companies that give huge bonuses."

If the government was smaller and had less power then there would have been no safety net for banks. They would have gone out of business and no CEOs would have received big bonuses at our expense. If we the tax payers put less money into the system then the politicians have less money to spend on their corporate sponsors.

"It will grow and spread because things are not going any better and politicians are acting against their own people. It's history unfolding."

So will this change be the result of all these people voting or something else?

@Ithn

"Oh yeah, jobs will just appear   I see that's the plan nowadays, lets wait and stuff will appear... "

Nice try, but I will explain it to you anyways. The market is cyclical. It expands and contracts. In a recession, businesses cut jobs and during an expansion they add jobs. It's not magic.

What Does Business Cycle Mean?
The recurring and fluctuating levels of economic activity that an economy experiences over a long period of time. The five stages of the business cycle are growth (expansion), peak, recession (contraction), trough and recovery. At one time, business cycles were thought to be extremely regular, with predictable durations, but today they are widely believed to be irregular, varying in frequency, magnitude and duration.

Since the World War II, most business cycles have lasted three to five years from peak to peak. The average duration of an expansion is 44.8 months and the average duration of a recession is 11 months. As a comparison, the Great Depression - which saw a decline in economic activity from 1929 to 1933 - lasted 43 months.

That's from:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/businesscycle.asp#axzz1alrj1Zgd


Yes they add jobs during expansion.... nad it is happening, they are adding jobs. In China. You seem to have forgotten while pondering that wonderful model that the US f.e. isn't actually the whole world, they are just 4-5% of its population.

« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2011, 19:46 »
0

Yes they add jobs during expansion.... nad it is happening, they are adding jobs. In China. You seem to have forgotten while pondering that wonderful model that the US f.e. isn't actually the whole world, they are just 4-5% of its population.
[/quote]


When did I say that the US is the whole world? I just gave you a quick definition of how business cycles work.

I know China is doing well, they make nearly everything we buy.

Are you saying communism is the answer? Or are you saying something else?

« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2011, 20:07 »
0
Ideological definition does not play well anymore in this world. Success speaks for itself. You seem to still live in a world of yesterday and refuse to hear the message of change, unfortunately.


Yes they add jobs during expansion.... nad it is happening, they are adding jobs. In China. You seem to have forgotten while pondering that wonderful model that the US f.e. isn't actually the whole world, they are just 4-5% of its population.


When did I say that the US is the whole world? I just gave you a quick definition of how business cycles work.

I know China is doing well, they make nearly everything we buy.

Are you saying communism is the answer? Or are you saying something else?
[/quote]

« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2011, 20:54 »
0
"Ideological definition does not play well anymore in this world. Success speaks for itself. You seem to still live in a world of yesterday and refuse to hear the message of change, unfortunately."


You're anonymous. You can say anything you want. Why are you scared of ideological definition?

You can't create a new government without defining what it is. If you tell people we need to change and they say, "What kind of change?" You can't say, "I'm not sure how to define it. "

« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2011, 21:15 »
0
I think plenty of people before my message have answered your questions. I don't know who you are either nor do I care, but I am not afraid of ideological definitions and a good dialogue.

However, ideologies are what politicians or philosophers use to spread their ideas and seek followers, or take control of the public. Our commoners care more about food on the table and day-to-day living. If the commoners are unhappy and hungry, it doesn't matter if they are Americans, Arabians, Chinese or Russian, they will deliver the messages to the government. You cannot support the freedom of speech other countries and suppress it at home.

"Ideological definition does not play well anymore in this world. Success speaks for itself. You seem to still live in a world of yesterday and refuse to hear the message of change, unfortunately."


You're anonymous. You can say anything you want. Why are you scared of ideological definition?

You can't create a new government without defining what it is. If you tell people we need to change and they say, "What kind of change?" You can't say, "I'm not sure how to define it. "
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 21:19 by Freedom »

« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2011, 21:54 »
0
This thread isn't about protesters or change or freedom of speech is it? It's about your dislike of everything American. Your multiple personalities on this page fool no one. In fact, I know that you have >1200 downloads on Istock, but no worries I would never out you to the community.

I'm done with this.


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
43 Replies
13677 Views
Last post March 10, 2008, 13:40
by Pixart
4 Replies
2734 Views
Last post May 21, 2008, 13:57
by Bateleur
35 Replies
12330 Views
Last post July 09, 2010, 15:10
by lisafx
5 Replies
2131 Views
Last post March 02, 2016, 11:14
by trek
21 Replies
7556 Views
Last post January 25, 2018, 07:33
by Chichikov

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results