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Author Topic: Peer to peer news. Climate/ weather information wanted.  (Read 7215 times)

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« on: August 02, 2013, 08:01 »
0
Let us see if this works. Let us see if we can gather some information, so we might get a perspective considering climate changes.

Let us look at our local weather.
Im here in Denmark, Scandinavia and we have a heatwave. 30+ Celsius, and have had for a month or so, temperatures slowly climbing up. Thats unusual, it only happens every 10th year.
I hear from Greenland that it is unusually warm (+25 degrees) and I hear from mid Canada, Winnipeg, that its is belov average, relatively cold.
I can see on the weather maps, that it is also relatively cold in eastern Europe, Minsk having 15 degrees.
That is not normal. It suggests that the isoterms are vertically spaciated, and thats normal for January in Europe but not in the summer.

So please. Can you help? what is your observation. And please let it come in the form of:
 "Place", unusually cold (or warm), unusual observations of early migrating birds or locusts.
Let us see if we can qualify global warming on a personal level.




Ron

« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2013, 08:04 »
0
Ireland - we have rain all year, in fact we have 200 rain days per year. And we are now experiencing the best summer since the 70s. Some temperatures have been around 30 degrees. The last 3 weeks have been phenomenal with a few cloudbursts the last week, but today its great weather again.

« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2013, 08:28 »
0
Thanks Ron for chiming in. I would never have guessed you were from Ireland. I thought you were from Texas.

Ron

« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2013, 08:32 »
0
Thanks Ron for chiming in. I would never have guessed you were from Ireland. I thought you were from Texas.
  ;D I am a Dutchman living in Ireland. I like the Danes, Dutch and Danes go well together. I have many Danish friends. We always watch the Danish-Dutch football matches together. Good craic.

Veneratio

« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2013, 08:46 »
0
London, blue skies, 25 degrees about average for time of year at the moment. Ten days ago we had hot spell with temperatures into low thirties. Lots of stormy weather, flash floods, weather warnings for heat and flooding

« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2013, 08:48 »
-1
Oh. I wouldnt have thought. Dutch and Danes are much of the same piece of bread. Almost same language.

Point is that the Dutch live downstream of the Rhine and Danes live downstreams of the Skagerak or the Baltic. You have the Germans coming down the stream, we fenced them out with a wall (Dannevirke) and also tried to cannonball them out of the Baltic.
I guess it didnt work in either case. They have tendencies, and they are persistant, the Germans, and they are many.

But  Ireland? The Irish try to escape that place and I have even captured one trying.


« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2013, 09:26 »
0
Thanks
Veneratio
we now have the North Sea area covered.
And can conclude from the Baltic and westwards, it is warm.


Uncle Pete

« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2013, 22:50 »
-2
Unseasonably cold for the last two weeks. Middle United States.

 Forecasters say at least twelve cities in central and eastern Wisconsin broke records for their lowest daytime high temperatures for July 27th.

Some smashing records in place for nearly a century!


So much for global warming.

Let me help. Weather changes, and finding something in one month or ten years, isn't proof of anything. Even the "save the planet" climatologists say it's takes centuries. What we have now is models and guesses.

http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7x.html

Climatologists have used various techniques and evidence to reconstruct a history of the Earth's past climate. From this data, they have found that during most of the Earth's history global temperatures were probably 8 to 15 degrees Celsius warmer than today. In the last billion years of climatic history, warmer conditions were broken by glacial periods starting at 925, 800, 680, 450, 330, and 2 million years before present.

Also:  Western Europe experienced a general cooling of the climate between the years 1150 and 1460 and a very cold climate between 1560 and 1850 that brought dire consequences to its peoples. The colder weather impacted agriculture, health, economics, social strife, emigration, and even art and literature. Increased glaciation and storms also had a devastating affect on those that lived near glaciers and the sea.

We are coming out of the little ice age, it's getting warmer. We are below the average "normal" Earth temperatures for billions of years. Also Volcanic eruptions cause climate change, because the the dust and spewing gasses into the atmosphere.

Hope that's helpful as part of a balanced answer to look at science for history and evidence as well as politics with an agenda.

« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2013, 23:17 »
+1
Unseasonably cold for the last two weeks. Middle United States.

 Forecasters say at least twelve cities in central and eastern Wisconsin broke records for their lowest daytime high temperatures for July 27th.

Some smashing records in place for nearly a century!


So much for global warming.

Let me help. Weather changes, and finding something in one month or ten years, isn't proof of anything. Even the "save the planet" climatologists say it's takes centuries. What we have now is models and guesses.

http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7x.html

Climatologists have used various techniques and evidence to reconstruct a history of the Earth's past climate. From this data, they have found that during most of the Earth's history global temperatures were probably 8 to 15 degrees Celsius warmer than today. In the last billion years of climatic history, warmer conditions were broken by glacial periods starting at 925, 800, 680, 450, 330, and 2 million years before present.

Also:  Western Europe experienced a general cooling of the climate between the years 1150 and 1460 and a very cold climate between 1560 and 1850 that brought dire consequences to its peoples. The colder weather impacted agriculture, health, economics, social strife, emigration, and even art and literature. Increased glaciation and storms also had a devastating affect on those that lived near glaciers and the sea.

We are coming out of the little ice age, it's getting warmer. We are below the average "normal" Earth temperatures for billions of years. Also Volcanic eruptions cause climate change, because the the dust and spewing gasses into the atmosphere.

Hope that's helpful as part of a balanced answer to look at science for history and evidence as well as politics with an agenda.


Nice cherry pick there, Uncle Pete! At least you admit your nonsense is politically motivated.

Of course, it only sounds convincing as long as people don't follow your link and they don't see the GISS global temperature plot on the page and actually read the rest of the article, which doesn't support you at all.

« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2013, 23:21 »
0
Thanks Pete, so you observations compare to those from Canada and those from Eastern Europe. That could be explained byt the 5 pointed star of the polar front.

Im aware that weather and climate is not the same. Unless we are having one of these overnight endings of ice ages that has actually happened.

Another and very valid addition to our perspective is changes in distribution of species. And yes we have that: During the last 100 years several species of butterflies have expanded their range northwards in Denmark (A. iris, L. camilla, P. aegeria, A. levana) and within the last couple of years it has accelerated with a couple of species that have jumped 3-400 km northwards. (A. ilia, H. morpheus).

« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 03:46 »
0
I am from the beach area of sourthen los angeles county. This is the coolest summer I can ever remember, we are still getting a off ocean cold front moving in every evening bring night time temps into the mid 60's F. Further inland they have broken or neared all time highs. Death Valley recorded a temp over 125. Las Vegas had temps at 119F, tourists were told not to wear sandals because they could get severe burns from the black top streets and parking areas.

ruxpriencdiam

    This user is banned.
  • Location. Third stone from the sun
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 07:00 »
0
All in all my thermometer was lucky if it broke the 90F mark this year when normally that would have happened dozens of time if not breaking 100F easily.

The rain wont stop.

And in August we wake up to a 60F cool morning that is more like late Sept or Oct!

Normally abnormal.

I live where our saying is: If you dont like the weather wait 5 minutes.

« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2013, 10:22 »
0
Rio de Janeiro. Wintertime. After a series of sunny days, reaching temps above 30C (86F) yesterday, it's cloudy today, it rained early, and temp is 22C (72F).

And the photo shows wintertime in Rio.  8)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 10:28 by madelaide »

« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2013, 10:57 »
+1
Been in Wales for the last week.  Lots of rain and quite cool temperatures for summertime.  I don't believe climatologists have a clue about what temperatures will be in the future.  In the 1970's they were concerned about global cooling.  It's a good way to justify increasing fuel prices and building new nuclear power plants.

« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 11:04 »
0
Thanks Ron for chiming in. I would never have guessed you were from Ireland. I thought you were from Texas.

Now that is amusing

« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2013, 11:09 »
0
Other than a few weather observations that do not really tell anything, here is an interview with Prof. Storch, one of Germany's leading climate scientists, which is quite interesting:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-hans-von-storch-on-problems-with-climate-change-models-a-906721.html

Uncle Pete

« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2013, 17:44 »
+1
1) It is getting warmer. Data indicates that is a fact.

2) This is a natural cycle and it has been warmer before. It has also been colder before. It has been dryer before and wetter before. Things change.

3) We don't know why the climate changes, as it has been doing so for millions of years, before the politically correct people decided that humans were the cause and the problem.

4) Nothing I wrote in the previous post or this one, is false. Is that correct?

So the evidence doesn't really support the THEORIES or conclusions for global warming caused by CFCs or Climate change caused by humans. And the computer simulations with hypothetical future data...  are based on imaginary human scenarios. Is that correct?

It's all about politics and you say you are against the controlled medial and propaganda, yet you have been programmed to believe this pseudoscience and defend it? How strange.



Thanks Pete, so you observations compare to those from Canada and those from Eastern Europe. That could be explained byt the 5 pointed star of the polar front.

Im aware that weather and climate is not the same. Unless we are having one of these overnight endings of ice ages that has actually happened.

Another and very valid addition to our perspective is changes in distribution of species. And yes we have that: During the last 100 years several species of butterflies have expanded their range northwards in Denmark (A. iris, L. camilla, P. aegeria, A. levana) and within the last couple of years it has accelerated with a couple of species that have jumped 3-400 km northwards. (A. ilia, H. morpheus).

« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2013, 18:51 »
0
1) It is getting warmer. Data indicates that is a fact.

2) This is a natural cycle and it has been warmer before. It has also been colder before. It has been dryer before and wetter before. Things change.

3) We don't know why the climate changes, as it has been doing so for millions of years, before the politically correct people decided that humans were the cause and the problem.

4) Nothing I wrote in the previous post or this one, is false. Is that correct?

So the evidence doesn't really support the THEORIES or conclusions for global warming caused by CFCs or Climate change caused by humans. And the computer simulations with hypothetical future data...  are based on imaginary human scenarios. Is that correct?

It's all about politics and you say you are against the controlled medial and propaganda, yet you have been programmed to believe this pseudoscience and defend it? How strange.


1) OK so far.

2) If it's a natural cycle what is the initiating forcing? We know what the forcings were which were the initial causes of many of the previous changes. The biggest influence over the past few million years has been Milankovitch forcings, caused by changes in the Earth's orbit and tilt. These have been causing a cooling effect for the past 5000 years or so, and would lead to a full-blown ice age in another 15000 years if we hadn't pumped so much CO2 and methane into the atmosphere. These forcings were first properly understood in the 70's and were one cause of ice age predictions. The other was industrial air pollution, working over a shorter timescale, but this was eliminated over most of the developed world by regulation of emissions.

If you want to claim that the current warming is natural, you're going to have to come up with a cause which tens of thousands of dedicated scientists have overlooked. Not even Exxon-Mobil or the Koch Brothers, with all their resources, have been able to find one.

3) We do know very largely why the climate changes, most of the forcings and feedbacks are reasonably well understood. You are obviously unaware that anthropogenic climate change was predicted in 1896 by Svante Arrhenius, building on the earlier work of Fourier and Tyndall, long before the effect was actually measured. Using terms like 'politically correct' is characteristic of those who would never let reality interfere with ideology. The term is an invention of the reactionary right wing.

4) No it's not correct. You cherry-picked some correct but irrelevant items from the other website to give a distorted impression of what it says. When you mentioned record cold spells in the central US in July, why didn't you mention the number of record highs? Not that a month's weather in a small area is any indicator of climate - climate is defined as weather averaged at global or regional scale over a 30-year period, although 25 years is often long enough for statistical significance. Also see 2 and 3.

A theory in science is something that is so well supported that everyone working in the field takes it as established fact. Every survey of actual working climate scientists over the last few years has produced results of over 95% agreeing that the climate change over the last 200+ years is caused by human activity.

It's not about politics for me.

« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2013, 19:04 »
0
If you want to claim that the current warming is natural, you're going to have to come up with a cause which tens of thousands of dedicated scientists have overlooked.


The providence of God.

« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2013, 19:17 »
-1
If you want to claim that the current warming is natural, you're going to have to come up with a cause which tens of thousands of dedicated scientists have overlooked.


The providence of God.

Got a peer-reviewed ref for that?

« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2013, 19:33 »
0
If you want to claim that the current warming is natural, you're going to have to come up with a cause which tens of thousands of dedicated scientists have overlooked.


The providence of God.

Got a peer-reviewed ref for that?



The Lord Answers Job

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:

2 Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Dress for action like a man;

I will question you, and you make it known to me.

4 Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?

Tell me, if you have understanding.

5 Who determined its measurementssurely you know!

Or who stretched the line upon it?

6 On what were its bases sunk,

or who laid its cornerstone,

7 when the morning stars sang together

and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 Or who shut in the sea with doors

when it burst out from the womb,

9 when I made clouds its garment

and thick darkness its swaddling band,

10 and prescribed limits for it

and set bars and doors,

11 and said, Thus far shall you come, and no farther,

and here shall your proud waves be stayed?

12 Have you commanded the morning since your days began,

and caused the dawn to know its place,

13 that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth,

and the wicked be shaken out of it?

14 It is changed like clay under the seal,

and its features stand out like a garment.

15 From the wicked their flight is withheld,

and their uplifted arm is broken.

16 Have you entered into the springs of the sea,

or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you,

or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?

18 Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth?

Declare, if you know all this.

19 Where is the way to the dwelling of light,

and where is the place of darkness,

20 that you may take it to its territory

and that you may discern the paths to its home?

21 You know, for you were born then,

and the number of your days is great!

22 Have you entered the storehouses of the snow,

or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,

23 which I have reserved for the time of trouble,

for the day of battle and war?

24 What is the way to the place where the light is distributed,

or where the east wind is scattered upon the earth?

25 Who has cleft a channel for the torrents of rain

and a way for the thunderbolt,

26 to bring rain on a land where no man is,

on the desert in which there is no man,

27 to satisfy the waste and desolate land,

and to make the ground sprout with grass?

28 Has the rain a father,

or who has begotten the drops of dew?

29 From whose womb did the ice come forth,

and who has given birth to the frost of heaven?

30 The waters become hard like stone,

and the face of the deep is frozen.

31 Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades

or loose the cords of Orion?

32 Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season,

or can you guide the Bear with its children?

33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens?

Can you establish their rule on the earth?

34 Can you lift up your voice to the clouds,

that a flood of waters may cover you?

35 Can you send forth lightnings, that they may go

and say to you, Here we are?

36 Who has put wisdom in the inward parts

or given understanding to the mind?

37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom?

Or who can tilt the waterskins of the heavens,

38 when the dust runs into a mass

and the clods stick fast together?

39 Can you hunt the prey for the lion,

or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,

40 when they crouch in their dens

or lie in wait in their thicket?

41 Who provides for the raven its prey,

when its young ones cry to God for help,

and wander about for lack of food?

« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2013, 19:39 »
0
If you want to claim that the current warming is natural, you're going to have to come up with a cause which tens of thousands of dedicated scientists have overlooked.


The providence of God.

Got a peer-reviewed ref for that?


The Lord Answers Job

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:

2 Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Dress for action like a man;

I will question you, and you make it known to me.

4 Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?

Tell me, if you have understanding.

5 Who determined its measurementssurely you know!

Or who stretched the line upon it?

6 On what were its bases sunk,

or who laid its cornerstone,
...


OK, so instead of 40 days and nights, it's going to be more like 40 years to wipe humanity out this time?

« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2013, 19:53 »
0
If you want to claim that the current warming is natural, you're going to have to come up with a cause which tens of thousands of dedicated scientists have overlooked.


The providence of God.

Got a peer-reviewed ref for that?


The Lord Answers Job

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:

2 Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Dress for action like a man;

I will question you, and you make it known to me.

4 Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?

Tell me, if you have understanding.

5 Who determined its measurementssurely you know!

Or who stretched the line upon it?

6 On what were its bases sunk,

or who laid its cornerstone,
...


OK, so instead of 40 days and nights, it's going to be more like 40 years to wipe humanity out this time?

You'll have to ask Him, he has an open door policy and a very detailed answer to all your questions.

« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2013, 20:31 »
0
If you want to claim that the current warming is natural, you're going to have to come up with a cause which tens of thousands of dedicated scientists have overlooked.


The providence of God.

Got a peer-reviewed ref for that?


The Lord Answers Job

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:

2 Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Dress for action like a man;

I will question you, and you make it known to me.

4 Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?

Tell me, if you have understanding.

5 Who determined its measurementssurely you know!

Or who stretched the line upon it?

6 On what were its bases sunk,

or who laid its cornerstone,
...


OK, so instead of 40 days and nights, it's going to be more like 40 years to wipe humanity out this time?

You'll have to ask Him, he has an open door policy and a very detailed answer to all your questions.

 8)

« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2013, 20:52 »
0
Weather in Central Canada has been very cold - soccer season didn't start till mid May because it was still snowing and usually grass is turning green by then.  Summer has been pleasant for me low/mid 20's - but I don't like the heat.  Beach people have really been ripped off this year.  I just looked at the forecast for next 7 days - 19 19 18 21 23 24 24.  Usually it's high 20's or low 30's.


 

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