Author Topic: Poll For Photoshop Users (Read 38778 times)

Adeptris · « **Reply #25 on:** July 05, 2009, 06:59 »

I have a legal copy of CS2, recently I needed to use Adobe Illustrator for a project my 11 year old grandson wanted to do, I could not justify a £365 spend on something that he would use only one or two times, so I downloaded the 30 day trial to the second laptop and he used that, for the use the product was cost prohibited.

Adobe have really missed a trick here unlike Microsoft, because Microsoft have a free 'express' version of thier key development tools called Visual Studio, this is a functional and cut down version of the full products that is supported and will not expire, this is for home use but you can produce fully functional re-distrubutable applications, many authors use this product which sits on the Windows platform.

This was a very smart move by Microsoft when Delphi was eating into market share, because home users and students will download, and use it as a study, fun, learning tool, and when they are writing their CV it will say Visual Studio, vb.net, C# etc:, and the companies that want to take these student on will purchase the full commercial packages, giving Microsoft a bigger overall market share and skill base.

Adobe have packaged some of their products into Adobe Creative Suite 4 Design Premium, this sells for £1500 from Adobe.com, if they had a free cut down version of their software, then many more would use Adobe as a product of choice, the demand pirated copies would fall away, and they would have visibility of who is using their products and be able to grasp a bigger commercial market share.

David

digiology · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2009, 11:34 »

I got Photoshop 3 (full version) bundled with my Agfa scanner years ago... I have upgraded all the way to the Creative Suite with that same serial#. Shortly after my original purchase, Adobe only bundled limited versions of PS with other products.

Upgrade prices are high enough... I feel for anyone that has to start out from scratch. But like Whatalife said, I too prefer to conduct my business in a professional matter. And even though I have stopped doing design work... I will still continue to pay for my upgrades.

lurkertwo · « **Reply #27 on:** July 05, 2009, 12:26 »

East of Vienna and behind the ex-iron curtain, there is no such thing as legal software. Peter admitted it. Go further East and the first legal copy of anything is on the shores of California.

madelaide · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2009, 14:37 »

You can buy pirate software on the streets in downtown Rio. But it weren't the 3rd world citizens who created Rapidshare, Napster, Kazaa and such. Unfortunately there is a global culture about using illegal software and downloading music and video. Don't say it's a 3rd world thing, though.

Given the cost of life vs wages in the developing countries, software is even more expensive than in the first world. A good portion of the cost is perhaps translation - which is not the case in PS CS4, as its sold in its original version and it costs about US$1500 - what about that? It's not an excuse to buy pirate, but it is an explanation.

I still think PS is overpriced and PSP is an excellent choice, without the limitations PSE has (or had - it lacked levels or curves, if I remember it right?). There has never been a tutorial for PS that I was unable to reproduce in PSP - more easily in version X2, which was a completely new interface regarding the old version 7 I used.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #29 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:17 »

Second Poll: How many people lied about having a legal copy of Photoshop in the previous poll, because it looks better that way? How many didn't answer, just because the answer is NO?

davey_rocket · « **Reply #30 on:** July 06, 2009, 13:12 »

Legal copy of PS CS3 and Illustrator CS4 purchased with student discount ~$400

It's a double edged sword, photoshop is the most pirated software in the world, and the major reason for that is the prohibitive costs. If it sold for $100 or so piracy would probably decline.

On the other hand open source programs like Gimp and Inkscape are incredibly useful and getting better. Maybe one day these programs will advance enough to serve as competition for adobe and force them to lower their prices.

madelaide · « **Reply #31 on:** July 06, 2009, 16:31 »

Quote from: davey_rocket on July 06, 2009, 13:12

If it sold for $100 or so piracy would probably decline.

I agree, although to many people the habit of using pirate software is too strong. Windows OEM costed me US$50 when I purchased my new PC, and then I get all the updates without any issue. But a lot of people I know laughed at me for having paid for it (and mind you, I still had a pirate CD of it).

In the past there were also huge manuals in paper, which are now gone and so are their costs.

IMHO, Adobe charges too much for its brand - the status of having Adobe software. It's hard for me to believe that Corel can deliver PSP for US$70 while Adobe needs US$400 (or more?) for PS.

Phil · « **Reply #32 on:** July 06, 2009, 17:23 »

another way to get it cheaper is as a bundle / promo.

when I bought my wacom tablet the discount coupons include 50% off photoshop, + you get cut down corel painter which can be upgraded cheap and discounts on some plugins.

http://www.wacom.com/privileges/intuos.cfm

just seen this is also valid for the AU$129 bamboo fun, so you could buy the bamboo + photoshop for less than photoshop on its own.

Peter · « **Reply #33 on:** July 07, 2009, 00:07 »

OEM software is not very usefull for some people. for example I re-install OS every year, at least once.

madelaide · « **Reply #34 on:** July 07, 2009, 10:18 »

Quote from: Peter on July 07, 2009, 00:07

OEM software is not very usefull for some people. for example I re-install OS every year, at least once.

You still get the installation CD. The difference is that in needs to be sold together with a computer (or some main component, at least) and you do'nt receive a fancy box, just the CD and a brief manual and the certificate in a plastic bag.

lurkertwo · « **Reply #35 on:** July 08, 2009, 12:53 »

Quote from: madelaide on July 07, 2009, 10:18

You still get the installation CD.

No. On my latest HP laptop (Vista), I got nothing any more. I got just the opportunity to write my own backup reinstall DVD once. If for some reason that DVD fails or is lost, I have nada, nothing. That's probably what Peter means. As soon as the warranty expires, I will install my good old pre-activated corporate "illegal" Win XP Pro version on it since I'm totally fed up with Vista.

My desktop came with an OEM-version of XP and a reinstall DVD that never worked when I needed to reformat (once per year). My bootlegged version works fine. The problem with legal software from Microsoft is that it never works properly and all the "illegal" versions do.

madelaide · « **Reply #36 on:** July 08, 2009, 16:32 »

Well, I got XP for my desktop last year (could have gotten Vista), in a simple package as described below, and I got it on my mother's laptop a couple of years ago.

Phil · « **Reply #37 on:** July 08, 2009, 17:10 »

The wacom 'bundle' which I see wasnt the right term is discount coupons (in addition to oem software supplied). So you can get full version with a discount.

Pixart · « **Reply #38 on:** July 10, 2009, 13:54 »

Right now over 78% of our PS users are working with a legal copy. This is totally opposite of the poll that I saw on the other site (they had a lot more voters though). I expected our group to have a much higher %, but this is quite impressive.

Microstock Posts · « **Reply #39 on:** July 12, 2009, 01:06 »

Yes, the result is surprising. Although I tend to think that those without a legal copy are staying away from this post.

borg · « **Reply #40 on:** July 12, 2009, 01:39 »

Adobe knows what is good in pirate version of PS...

PS has become the standard for photo and design, thanks to piracy...

Sooner or later a successful user of pirated versions will buy a license ( I know many of them) ...

And after that PS becomes standard and the number 1,world wide, thanks to pirate version...

madelaide · « **Reply #41 on:** July 12, 2009, 15:00 »

I partially agree with Borg. The ease to multiply users create a standard. Isn't it also curious that, despite Linux being around for so long for free and OpenOffice also being such a neat piece of free software, with enough features to fulfill most MS Office users, most people still prefer to have a pirate copy of Windows and MS Office instead?

I remember the time in which many expensive engineering software had hardlocks to impede the use by non-buyers. You could copy the software, but it wouldn't run without a hardlock (although I suppose people could find ways to circumvent that too). Others require you to send them some info so they would create a license file that would only work in that specific HD. Software that did not have such restrictions spread much more easily in the academic community and became much more successful commercially. Students and professors might have a pirate copy at home, but they needed a legal copy at the university if they wanted to publish papers in scientific magazines and congresses.

Many years ago, back in DOS times we used to have ChiWriter, and its license was very interesting by saying you could have it installed in more than one machine, as long as it was not used simultaneously. They clearly exemplified by having it at work and at home, so that you could edit your paper at work, then continue to edit it at home.

cathyslife · « **Reply #42 on:** July 12, 2009, 17:05 »

In the past, the company I worked for bought the software and since I did work at home, and since the license allows you to install on 2 computers, as long as you don't use both computers at one time (at least I think that's how it worked), I have never needed to buy my own license.

But eventually I wanted my own license so I found a CLEAN, NON-REGISTERED copy of Photoshop 6 or 7 on ebay. Before I bought, I checked the serial no. with Adobe to make sure I could register it ok. It was a go, so...

At the time, Adobe offered a CS upgrade with just a PS license. I think the PS disk cost me less than $20. I think the CS upgrade was $199. I have kept up with the upgrades since, BUT...this last upgrade to CS4 with PS, IL, ID, FL and DW was $600+. It is getting more and more difficult for me to afford the upgrades even. Guess I better get more work.

Phil · « **Reply #43 on:** July 12, 2009, 18:58 »

Quote from: borg on July 12, 2009, 01:39

Adobe knows what is good in pirate version of PS...

PS has become the standard for photo and design, thanks to piracy...

Sooner or later a successful user of pirated versions will buy a license ( I know many of them) ...

And after that PS becomes standard and the number 1,world wide, thanks to pirate version...

yep, it was something I bought earlier on with microstock earnings, before that it was a pirate copy. Then I went through and bought the plugins that I actually used (and ditched the rest)

Phil · « **Reply #44 on:** July 12, 2009, 19:08 »

Quote from: madelaide on July 12, 2009, 15:00

I partially agree with Borg. The ease to multiply users create a standard. Isn't it also curious that, despite Linux being around for so long for free and OpenOffice also being such a neat piece of free software, with enough features to fulfill most MS Office users, most people still prefer to have a pirate copy of Windows and MS Office instead?

I remember the time in which many expensive engineering software had hardlocks to impede the use by non-buyers. You could copy the software, but it wouldn't run without a hardlock (although I suppose people could find ways to circumvent that too). Others require you to send them some info so they would create a license file that would only work in that specific HD. Software that did not have such restrictions spread much more easily in the academic community and became much more successful commercially. Students and professors might have a pirate copy at home, but they needed a legal copy at the university if they wanted to publish papers in scientific magazines and congresses.

Many years ago, back in DOS times we used to have ChiWriter, and its license was very interesting by saying you could have it installed in more than one machine, as long as it was not used simultaneously. They clearly exemplified by having it at work and at home, so that you could edit your paper at work, then continue to edit it at home.

there is still software that uses hardlock / dongles. I have one on my home machine for arcgis. It essentially gets a firmware update every year with the new licence for the year. At work one of the servers has it and has the licence manager and all the machines get a licence from it and it keeps track of the number of concurrent users (even though we have a site licence).

Linux will come, I havent used it for about 3 years, it just needs to get a bit friendlier and easier (maybe it has already). I think it will be gradual but the total cost of ownership will come down further and companies will eventually say oh we can save $$ by going to linux platform (much like microstock

and a big company or two will do it and others will follow. Microsoft have put a lot of work in to stop it, buying companies (or part buying companies like corel) to stop development, and trying to make sure every new machine has windows preinstalled.

basti · « **Reply #45 on:** July 13, 2009, 03:06 »

Adobe is partially guilty for having so many PS copies stolen - if they apply (as many other producers) the rule - less rich country, higher price - then they cant be surprised. If copy of PS costs in US much less then in east Europe while US avergae income is 5-10x higher... oh well, what a surprise!

lurkertwo · « **Reply #46 on:** July 13, 2009, 04:03 »

Quote from: basti on July 13, 2009, 03:06

If copy of PS costs in US much less then in east Europe while US avergae income is 5-10x higher... oh well, what a surprise!

Abobe price comparison between the US and a country in Western Europe (all prices converted to Euro):

Product	US	EU
CS4 web premium buy	1154	2055
CS4 web premium upgrade	407	725
CS4 master collection buy	1697	3387
CS4 master collection upgrade	610	1209

Don't try to buy online in the US: your IP will be rejected since all major corporations are bound by a EU regulation that sales from within the EU should be diverted so they can be taxed an additional 21% VAT. Educational prices are much lower, but still 250 euro. Yet every college student I know seems to have CS4 on his PC. Nuff said.

If PS wouldn't be "shared" in huge volumes, everybody would use GIMP.
If Windows wouldn't be bootlegged massively (or preinstalled), everybody would use Linux. The search for one legal copy of PS amongst individuals (not companies) between Vienna and Vladivostok is harder than the quest for the Holy Grail.

Freezingpictures · « **Reply #47 on:** July 13, 2009, 04:59 »

Quote from: cevapcici on July 13, 2009, 04:03

Quote from: basti on July 13, 2009, 03:06
If copy of PS costs in US much less then in east Europe while US avergae income is 5-10x higher... oh well, what a surprise!

Abobe price comparison between the US and a country in Western Europe (all prices converted to Euro):

Product US EU
CS4 web premium buy 1154 2055
CS4 web premium upgrade 407 725
CS4 master collection buy 1697 3387
CS4 master collection upgrade 610 1209

Don't try to buy online in the US: your IP will be rejected since all major corporations are bound by a EU regulation that sales from within the EU should be diverted so they can be taxed an additional 21% VAT. Educational prices are much lower, but still 250 euro. Yet every college student I know seems to have CS4 on his PC. Nuff said.

If PS wouldn't be "shared" in huge volumes, everybody would use GIMP.
If Windows wouldn't be bootlegged massively (or preinstalled), everybody would use Linux. The search for one legal copy of PS amongst individuals (not companies) between Vienna and Vladivostok is harder than the quest for the Holy Grail.

I am not so sure.. I used Gimp a bit and more extensively Linux at University but also on my own Computer. After tried that I was quite happy having a paid version of Photoshop and Windows. Although if Windows 7 is not a lot better I probably will switch to mac for photography/design stuff. The thing is if you are not really a pro you do not need professional photoshop software. Elements is more than enough. And Elements has a very reasonable price. But yes Photoshop software in general could be a bit cheaper.. especially the European prices.

Danicek · « **Reply #48 on:** July 13, 2009, 05:14 »

Using Gimp (on Windows).

Adeptris · « **Reply #49 on:** July 13, 2009, 07:02 »

Don't forget that we may not be loading the software on our hard drives in the near future, as internet speeds get quicker then the realities of 'Software as a Service' become more real:

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/articles/saas_06.html

Quote

Many of Adobe's top software offerings now have an SaaS counterpart including Photoshop Express, Adobe Document Center, Scene7, Kuler and more.

The main problem at the moment with SaaS is speed and trust, but when education departments latch onto the concept, and start providing good internet connections and small notebooks over maintaining the current infrustructure due to costs, the new internet users will start to use all different software (SaaS) services daily in schools and when they start working will expect the same, need Photoshop just login fire it up and off you go.

Check this out a free SaaS service for editing images on the fly, so it is not that far away when you could be legally using something like Adobe Suite in a browser: aviary

I was reading an aritcle about a company the other day and they took a 10K spend down to $65 a month, they just moved all the servers to Amazons Cloud, they provided virtual servers preloaded with software via a browser, a big leap of faith and trust rewarded by a big hardware and software financial savings.

David

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Poll

Do you use a Legal Copy of Photoshop?

Author Topic: Poll For Photoshop Users (Read 38778 times)

Adeptris

digiology

lurkertwo

madelaide

RacePhoto

davey_rocket

madelaide

Phil

Peter

madelaide

lurkertwo

madelaide

Phil

Pixart

Microstock Posts

borg

madelaide

cathyslife

Phil

Phil

basti

lurkertwo

Freezingpictures

Danicek

Adeptris

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