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Author Topic: Reddit CEO fired after alienating her user base  (Read 10275 times)

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Titus Livius

« on: July 11, 2015, 02:00 »
+3
HAHAHAHA !!

Reddit CEO Ellen Pao resigns following community uprising
http://rt.com/usa/273061-reddit-ceo-pao-resigns/


so, talking about forums and users leaving .. here's yet another textbook case of mismanagement  authoritarian rule, moral of the story is "dont Fk with your own user base, or else".

admin edit  : gender specific comments taken out.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 14:45 by leaf »


« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2015, 02:21 »
+13
It has nothing to do with her being female, just another corporate boss who doesnt understand community on the internet.

I really feel for those unpaid moderators who are working like crazy to build their communities.

Titus Livius

« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2015, 03:04 »
+1
It has nothing to do with her being female, just another corporate boss who doesnt understand community on the internet.

I really feel for those unpaid moderators who are working like crazy to build their communities.


yes but in the end they decided to be volunteers in a place they've no ownership and no pay and no leverage at all so they can only blame themselves if a new CEO comes and all of a sudden starts banning this or that, i mean what else did they expected, Reddit is owned by CondeNast and their mission is just about making profits, judging from this scandal it's obvious their execs see the users and mods as a bunch of idiots and freetards.

as for Ellen Pao, the female factor here is important as she was very focused on eliminating subs (forums) who were critical of LGBT, Feminism, etc .. while blaming sexism and misoginy to cover hes as-s ... the sacking of a female employee who was managing the iAMA sub is just the icing on the cake but not the main reason for her dismissal as Ellen Pao has already a history of sueing employers for sexual harassement, mobbing, and sexism.

"Its Silicon Valley 2, Ellen Pao 0: Fighter of Sexism Is Out at Reddit"
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/11/technology/ellen-pao-reddit-chief-executive-resignation.html?_r=0

« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 03:12 by Titus Livius »

« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2015, 05:32 »
+5
To work for free for a cooperation might seem stupid, but if you work with community, you are working together with THEM, not the owners of the plattform.

And once the community and the network is established...they can all move together elsewhere if they want to, which is what reddit is discovering now.

Cooperations dont own the users, just their plattforms.

Like we have seen here, we can all move elsewhere very quickly...some companies know that and some still need to learn their lessons...you cant stop the internet, that is the beauty of it.

Shelma1

« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2015, 06:51 »
+3
To work for free for a for-profit corporation IS stupid. For many reasons, but a big one is that corporate CEOs are paid more and more relative to their employees, and volunteering your time just gives those CEOs a bigger paycheck and more and more disdain for the people who toil for them.

It just feeds into this growing belief that people should work for free, and that photos, art, music, writing, etc. should be free for the taking. But the people who want everything for free expect to be well compensated for their own time, of course.

« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2015, 06:58 »
+1
There are millions of people doing all kinds of volunteer work around the world. Not everything you do has to be compensated with money. Helping to build a community is a very worthwhile thing to spend your time on.

Titus Livius

« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2015, 06:58 »
+2
To work for free for a cooperation might seem stupid, but if you work with community, you are working together with THEM, not the owners of the plattform.

And once the community and the network is established...they can all move together elsewhere if they want to, which is what reddit is discovering now.

Cooperations dont own the users, just their plattforms.

Like we have seen here, we can all move elsewhere very quickly...some companies know that and some still need to learn their lessons...you cant stop the internet, that is the beauty of it.

it's a deja-vu of what happened to DIGG.com years ago, the admins took the user base for granted and started imposing features nobody wanted, along with mass bannings etc ... so almost overnight the bulk of the users and all the mods migrated to Reddit .. after some time Digg was sold for a pittance and then it was sold again recently and now it's basically dead .. this was a company valued almost 1 billion during its brief golden age.

now Reddit is under fire but the founder is back as CEO so i think everything will get back to normal.
problem is, it's very hard to monetize forums and communities, you can bet greedy companies like CondeNast sooner or later will find a way to shoot themself in the foot again.

as for the userbase : yeah they could all move to 8Chan or whatever other free Chan board but still they don't have ownership, they only get mod rights but the admins can boot them out anytime and keep the userbase for themselves, 4Chan is another sad case about this as they lost most of the userbase for similar silly reasons ... i mean there are dozen Chans now and they're all the same sh-it so one is worth the other, it's the mods and the userbase that matter, platforms are dime a dozen nowadays.

as for MSG, sure move to another forum but which one exactly ? i don't remember any other stock forum like this, the few ones i have in mind get barely 5-10 posts per day on a good day ...




Titus Livius

« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2015, 07:07 »
+1
To work for free for a for-profit corporation IS stupid. For many reasons, but a big one is that corporate CEOs are paid more and more relative to their employees, and volunteering your time just gives those CEOs a bigger paycheck and more and more disdain for the people who toil for them.

It just feeds into this growing belief that people should work for free, and that photos, art, music, writing, etc. should be free for the taking. But the people who want everything for free expect to be well compensated for their own time, of course.

well, Reddit in particular is now the biggest forum in the world and worth 500 millions $.
on top of this there's IMGUR which is worth 40 millions $ and is hosting most of Reddit's images.

the irony is that while Reddit is totally replaceable and can be killed overnight in the next users rebellion, IMGUR is here to stay as it's the biggest image hoster around and there are no better alternatives as their competitors are infested by ads and desperate to monetize.

so, there's a sh-itload of money at stake and yes indeed too many users with too much time in their hands are basically working for free while CondeNast is earning 10-20 millions $ per month.

the sad thing is while there are excellent and interesting subs on Reddit the bulk of the content is of even lower quality than FB or MySpace, just look at the most popular threads, it's all junk to say the least, the average age of the top posters must be 13 yrs old ...


« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2015, 07:08 »
+2
people didnt leave msg because leaf made mistakes. people just reacted to having their portfolios deleted. so now we have many, many different facebook groups with hundreds, or over a thousand people each. its a little more complex to follow different boards then just msg, but the community is just as well connected as before.

it is also an opportunty for a company to come and build an open community if they want to, some are trying, but it will take awhile before people trust a specific agency. If one agency messes up, all the others come under suspicion as well.

ETA: I dont know the reddit forums, but we have seen the movement of communities many times, from yahoo groups, aol forums, myspace etc...the party keeps moving elsewhere.

facebook has done a good job of reaching critical mass and still being there. I dont like the ugly  interface, but it works.

Shelma1

« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2015, 07:53 »
0
There are millions of people doing all kinds of volunteer work around the world. Not everything you do has to be compensated with money. Helping to build a community is a very worthwhile thing to spend your time on.

There's a big difference between volunteering for a worthy cause (though I'm skeptical of large non-profit organizations) and working as an unpaid moderator for a for-profit corporation while all the other company employees are paid. Conde Nast is a huge company and can afford to pay people.

In fact, the Reddit mods wrote an article in the NY Times a few days ago, and most of the comments were along the same linesfind a worthy non-profit cause to volunteer for, instead of giving your valuable time to Conde Nast. CEO Samuel Newhouse, Jr. has a net worth of $8.3 billion.

« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 08:06 »
+1
They are not giving their time to conde naste. They are giving it to the community. And because they are donating their time, they are free to say whatever they want.

Building international online communities is a very, very worthwhile cause to donate your time to.

Shelma1

« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 09:21 »
+1
Do the guys who launched Reddit work for free? Or did they make money selling to Conde Nast, and have contracts and salaries? While keeping their unpaid moderator workforce in place?

« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2015, 10:19 »
0
To work for free for a for-profit corporation IS stupid. For many reasons, but a big one is that corporate CEOs are paid more and more relative to their employees, and volunteering your time just gives those CEOs a bigger paycheck and more and more disdain for the people who toil for them.

It just feeds into this growing belief that people should work for free, and that photos, art, music, writing, etc. should be free for the taking. But the people who want everything for free expect to be well compensated for their own time, of course.

Please don't call those generous YouTube uploaders "stupid". I learnt so much from them.
From photography tutorials, to hardwood flooring, washing machine repair etc.
YouTube creators and Google deserve all of our respect for facilitating these discussions, for having the idea and the guts to implement it and, since then, changing they way we learn new things.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 10:46 by Zero Talent »

Shelma1

« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2015, 11:15 »
0
To work for free for a for-profit corporation IS stupid. For many reasons, but a big one is that corporate CEOs are paid more and more relative to their employees, and volunteering your time just gives those CEOs a bigger paycheck and more and more disdain for the people who toil for them.

It just feeds into this growing belief that people should work for free, and that photos, art, music, writing, etc. should be free for the taking. But the people who want everything for free expect to be well compensated for their own time, of course.

Please don't call those generous YouTube uploaders "stupid". I learnt so much from them.
From photography tutorials, to hardwood flooring, washing machine repair etc.
YouTube creators and Google deserve all of our respect for facilitating these discussions, for having the idea and the guts to implement it and, since then, changing they way we learn new things.

Your post has nothing to do with mine. YouTube uploaders don't work for YouTube. They are independent and hope to get lots of views and subscribers so they can make money from advertising, selling books, whatever. Or they use the service to post videos for family and friends, and then the advertising makes money for someone else.

It's great to start, grow and support online communities, as Leaf has done here. Absolutely awesome. But if he sold MSG to Conde Nast, I would expect him to get paid for that, and if they asked him to stay on as a moderator I'd expect him to get a salary.

Titus Livius

« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2015, 11:37 »
0
it is also an opportunty for a company to come and build an open community if they want to, some are trying, but it will take awhile before people trust a specific agency. If one agency messes up, all the others come under suspicion as well.

a single unified mega forum for all the stockers ?
impossible, i'm afraid.

too many users have strong opposing views and end up bit-ching with each other, just as in real life you will never see 1000s of people sticking together but hundreds of small groups of friend who have something in common and that eventually join other small groups, but glueing them all up is pure utopia, it never worked even in the old times of Usenet.

as for the agencies, writing in a public forum with your name/surname or a link to your portfolio is like asking for trouble, there's just too many trolls and stalkers.

Titus Livius

« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2015, 11:44 »
0
CEO Samuel Newhouse, Jr. has a net worth of $8.3 billion.

maybe they're just young and naive.
i guess 90% of the junk content posted on Reddit has zero worth anyway.

on the other side there are a few interesting subs that dont have an equivalent in other WWW forums and guess what the one i read everyday was going a candidate for deletion by Ellen Pao because of sexism hahaha ... but they were ready to move in another backup forum, suffice to say they have 100K registered users in that sub and they would have been moved overnight .. i think if nobody stopped Pao she could have easily lost a few millions users.

now, how a CEO can make such mistakes is unbelievable but hey .. the CEO and founder of DIGG did exactly the same years ago and if that matters FB and Twitter are also pushing new unwanted features in the throat of their users without asking any feedback, same for Youtube when google starts wiping content or removing comments and channels with no explanation ... all this mega sites are basically treating their users like dirt with zero respect let alone a salary or a bonus for the mods.

 

Titus Livius

« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2015, 11:51 »
0
Do the guys who launched Reddit work for free? Or did they make money selling to Conde Nast, and have contracts and salaries? While keeping their unpaid moderator workforce in place?

i fully agree, obviously, but in this case the mods knew very well the rules of the game so if they like it that's a non paid volunteer job and if they don't like it they're free to just write there as normal users or running their own private forum outside of Reddit, can't see why CondeNasty should be blamed for it .. pretty much every big player is abusing and profiting from user-generated content in one way or another .. FB is worth 100 billion $ now, take away the users writing sh-it day and night and it's worth nothing as it's just a platform, not the owner of the content and even if it was the owner the content is worth zero over time, just as MySpace has been sold for 35 millions $ while it was valued 12 billions a few years back .. now it's a cemetery with pages last updated in 2005, like Geocities but even worse.







 

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