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Author Topic: snipers shoot dead police officers in Dallas  (Read 12211 times)

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« Reply #100 on: July 15, 2016, 02:56 »
0
People kill people because they like it - and they have a gun handy to make it easier to kill more than one.

I carried today when I went out with my entire family to dinner, had pizza and a shake, no one died!


« Reply #101 on: July 15, 2016, 02:59 »
+1
We need to ban trucks.

In 2015, over 13,000 people has been killed in the United States in 2015 in a gun homicide, unintentional shooting, or murder/suicide.

At least trucks are useful for the world economy and our survival. Can you say the same for a world filled with guns?

Ban all trucks! we can all use bicycles so that if a terrorist or BLM wants to kill some one they might take out just one person instead of 75 or whatever the final toll will be. As your argument to ban guns is exactly the same irregardless of what other economic pluses a truck might have.

« Reply #102 on: July 15, 2016, 03:08 »
+4
did post but you know what completely pointless
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 03:19 by Pauws99 »

« Reply #103 on: July 15, 2016, 04:09 »
+2

I'm not wrong, my point was that a person with a handgun can in fact stand up to someone with a automatic assault riffle! He did case closed.


Case not closed. You failed to make the difference between the two defensive positions for which your argument was based on. One, the incident in France where people were held hostage in an enclosed area surrounded by guys with ak47s which made a surprise defense almost impossible, the other, one single guy with an ak47 coming out of a bldg making himself the perfect target for anybody with a gun.


As for being in a building a Handgun is more maneuverable then an assault riffle.


It won't matter if you are in an enclosed area surrounded with guys with ak47s...you're dead



As for the MP he probably was well trained but that doe not mean most of the people serving in the military are well trained, especially when they are new!

What makes you think a civilian can not be as well trained or better trained? Their is no way to back that up, just as with the military there are people with different skill levels.


Again, you either fail to understand or willfully omit the point. When, everything goes to sh!t, it becomes far more important to be able to differentiate the good guys from the bad ones else training won't matters. If there is one lesson to learn from the Philando Castile death, is the fact that the police did not know that he was a good guy because, one of the reasons,  he had  a gun.

Think about it. Lets say, one day you go down the street and see a civilian running and shooting at someone. And despite not knowing all the facts, you think this guy is bad. You pull your gun and start running after him. And while you run after him, you realized that this guy is running after another guy shooting at someone. And that someone is running at someone else with a gun too. And just before you get shot in the back, as you come close to an open field, you see a battlefield of people shooting at each others.  Do you get it?

No two situations are going to be the same, however if you were in France during that attack you would have some sort of chance to defend yourself as compared to none. Terrorists run in with guns shooting, you hit the deck if you are not already dead and pull out your gun and fire back. I'd take those chances as opposed to no gun to fight back with. If you don't get that argument then you frankly have no self survival instinct. I'm not going to give up my natural instinct simply because you have none and want to take away my rights because you believe yours supersede my own. My life matters and so do the ones I love. Your argument convinces me of nothing other then your hell bent determination to bend my will to yours.

As for determining who the bad guys are, that would quickly be determined based on who is shooting who and how. Maybe you are slow on reading situations I don't know, but I think if someone comes in blasting people its obvious there not there to give hugs!

As for the cops showing up, once they do and the threat is being taken care of you put down your weapon or put it away so that you are not seen as a threat.

As for Philando Castile I don't know the details of that situation and was not there so I can't comment on that!
I think the best chance to survive in those situations is to stay still and hope the people with ak47s think you're dead.  As soon as you pull your gun out, its likely you would be dead and so would some of the people around you.  Is anyone going to be able to shoot a few people with ak47s with the adrenaline pumping?  I really don't think its the same as firing at a still target in a shooting range.

« Reply #104 on: July 15, 2016, 04:24 »
0
We need to ban trucks.

In 2015, over 13,000 people has been killed in the United States in 2015 in a gun homicide, unintentional shooting, or murder/suicide.

At least trucks are useful for the world economy and our survival. Can you say the same for a world filled with guns?
You would be surprised at how much money is in the business of making/selling/transporting guns, hence it is good for the economy from business side. That being said, I am not saying that I am for guns. Like I stated in my first post on the subject, the laws should be strict when one is getting a gun.

« Reply #105 on: July 15, 2016, 04:59 »
+6
We need to ban trucks.

In 2015, over 13,000 people has been killed in the United States in 2015 in a gun homicide, unintentional shooting, or murder/suicide.

At least trucks are useful for the world economy and our survival. Can you say the same for a world filled with guns?
You would be surprised at how much money is in the business of making/selling/transporting guns, hence it is good for the economy from business side. That being said, I am not saying that I am for guns. Like I stated in my first post on the subject, the laws should be strict when one is getting a gun.

What is the the purpose of having a gun economy at the expense of killing 13,000 people a year? If guns mean getting "protected" than why the US, with more guns per capita than any other industrialized countries, are getting more people killed with guns than any other industrialized countries? What part of that math is so hard to understand?


« Reply #106 on: July 15, 2016, 05:10 »
+5
People kill people because they like it - and they have a gun handy to make it easier to kill more than one.

I carried today when I went out with my entire family to dinner, had pizza and a shake, no one died!

I don't feel the need to carry anything other than a phone and a wallet when I go out with my family.

« Reply #107 on: July 15, 2016, 05:14 »
+1
We need to ban trucks.

In 2015, over 13,000 people has been killed in the United States in 2015 in a gun homicide, unintentional shooting, or murder/suicide.

At least trucks are useful for the world economy and our survival. Can you say the same for a world filled with guns?
You would be surprised at how much money is in the business of making/selling/transporting guns, hence it is good for the economy from business side. That being said, I am not saying that I am for guns. Like I stated in my first post on the subject, the laws should be strict when one is getting a gun.

What is the the purpose of having a gun economy at the expense of killing 13,000 people a year? If guns mean getting "protected" than why the US, with more guns per capita than any other industrialized countries, are getting more people killed with guns than any other industrialized countries? What part of that math is so hard to understand?

Well here is the thing. For you, me and probably most of the people reading this, there is no math. Someone's life is worth much more than someone's full bank account. That being said, you and I and most of the people reading this, have no saying in this. The guy who is owner of the producing/selling/transporting guns has a say in this but he just does not care. His moral reasoning is probably something along the lines: "I just make the stuff, I am not the one killing people". And to a certain point it is true. Same with the guy that is making trucks or cars or anything that can kill people.
I said it before, where I live, you have to pass the health check, background check, psych eval, test, etc. in order to get a Driver's Licence. It should be same for guns. IMHO, its the ease of legally obtaining the gun that is the problem (that's what we were talking about to begin with). Illegal guns are yet another completely different issue.

Shelma1

« Reply #108 on: July 15, 2016, 06:26 »
+3
Illegal guns are part of the same issue. They come from somewhere, and where they come from is private gun owners. Half a million guns are stolen from private owners every year in the U.S. So all those people arming themselves with arsenals to "protect their families" are making the illegal gun trade possible by supplying it with millions and millions of guns that were legally obtained at first.

And, of course, many terrorists around the world use arms manufactured in the USA. The United States is the world's largest exporter of arms, selling almost twice as many arms as Russia, in second place. So our fabulous gun culture extends itself all over the world.

« Reply #109 on: July 15, 2016, 06:54 »
0
Illegal guns are part of the same issue. They come from somewhere, and where they come from is private gun owners. Half a million guns are stolen from private owners every year in the U.S. So all those people arming themselves with arsenals to "protect their families" are making the illegal gun trade possible by supplying it with millions and millions of guns that were legally obtained at first.

And, of course, many terrorists around the world use arms manufactured in the USA. The United States is the world's largest exporter of arms, selling almost twice as many arms as Russia, in second place. So our fabulous gun culture extends itself all over the world.

Agreed. Nobody is saying that all is well. Far from it. I was making a reference to the economic part of it compared to trucks. But saying all these people died from guns and we should ban then is extremely simplified.
Here is what I found: The figures are preliminary estimates from the National Safety Council, which says it currently estimates that last year (read 2015), "38,300 people were killed on U.S. roads, and 4.4 million were seriously injured, meaning 2015 likely was the deadliest driving year since 2008."

Does this mean all cars should be banned? No, of course not. There are idiots who use cars as a tool (transporting people and goods) and there are idiots who do the same thing wile intoxicated, while talking on the phone and driving and not paying attention, applying make up (mostly USA girls) while driving, etc. You get the point. Because of those idiots, should we ban cars? Or take their DL away? Even without the DL, are they guaranteed that they will not drink and drive again?

It is a much more complex situation from stating take the guns away. As much as I am for that, it is simply impossible.

« Reply #110 on: July 15, 2016, 07:37 »
+3
Illegal guns are part of the same issue. They come from somewhere, and where they come from is private gun owners. Half a million guns are stolen from private owners every year in the U.S. So all those people arming themselves with arsenals to "protect their families" are making the illegal gun trade possible by supplying it with millions and millions of guns that were legally obtained at first.

And, of course, many terrorists around the world use arms manufactured in the USA. The United States is the world's largest exporter of arms, selling almost twice as many arms as Russia, in second place. So our fabulous gun culture extends itself all over the world.

Agreed. Nobody is saying that all is well. Far from it. I was making a reference to the economic part of it compared to trucks. But saying all these people died from guns and we should ban then is extremely simplified.
Here is what I found: The figures are preliminary estimates from the National Safety Council, which says it currently estimates that last year (read 2015), "38,300 people were killed on U.S. roads, and 4.4 million were seriously injured, meaning 2015 likely was the deadliest driving year since 2008."

Does this mean all cars should be banned? No, of course not. There are idiots who use cars as a tool (transporting people and goods) and there are idiots who do the same thing wile intoxicated, while talking on the phone and driving and not paying attention, applying make up (mostly USA girls) while driving, etc. You get the point. Because of those idiots, should we ban cars? Or take their DL away? Even without the DL, are they guaranteed that they will not drink and drive again?

It is a much more complex situation from stating take the guns away. As much as I am for that, it is simply impossible.

The difference is banning cars would get more people killed due to famine, hypotermia, diseases ect.. due to the country descending into anarchy, total job losses for everybody ect. No more food from the grocery stores, no more heating from your furnace because no one can come and fix it ect.... it is a necessary evil, guns are not

« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 07:41 by cybernesco »

« Reply #111 on: July 15, 2016, 07:41 »
+1
Illegal guns are part of the same issue. They come from somewhere, and where they come from is private gun owners. Half a million guns are stolen from private owners every year in the U.S. So all those people arming themselves with arsenals to "protect their families" are making the illegal gun trade possible by supplying it with millions and millions of guns that were legally obtained at first.

And, of course, many terrorists around the world use arms manufactured in the USA. The United States is the world's largest exporter of arms, selling almost twice as many arms as Russia, in second place. So our fabulous gun culture extends itself all over the world.

Agreed. Nobody is saying that all is well. Far from it. I was making a reference to the economic part of it compared to trucks. But saying all these people died from guns and we should ban then is extremely simplified.
Here is what I found: The figures are preliminary estimates from the National Safety Council, which says it currently estimates that last year (read 2015), "38,300 people were killed on U.S. roads, and 4.4 million were seriously injured, meaning 2015 likely was the deadliest driving year since 2008."

Does this mean all cars should be banned? No, of course not. There are idiots who use cars as a tool (transporting people and goods) and there are idiots who do the same thing wile intoxicated, while talking on the phone and driving and not paying attention, applying make up (mostly USA girls) while driving, etc. You get the point. Because of those idiots, should we ban cars? Or take their DL away? Even without the DL, are they guaranteed that they will not drink and drive again?

It is a much more complex situation from stating take the guns away. As much as I am for that, it is simply impossible.

The difference is banning cars would get more people killed due to famine, hypotermia, diseases ect.. due to the country descending into anarchy, total job losses for everybody ect. No more food from the grocery stores, no more heating from your furnace because no one can come and fix it ect.... you get the point
Yes I do but you obviously do not.

Sent from my LG-D605 using Tapatalk


« Reply #112 on: July 15, 2016, 07:47 »
+1
Illegal guns are part of the same issue. They come from somewhere, and where they come from is private gun owners. Half a million guns are stolen from private owners every year in the U.S. So all those people arming themselves with arsenals to "protect their families" are making the illegal gun trade possible by supplying it with millions and millions of guns that were legally obtained at first.

And, of course, many terrorists around the world use arms manufactured in the USA. The United States is the world's largest exporter of arms, selling almost twice as many arms as Russia, in second place. So our fabulous gun culture extends itself all over the world.

Agreed. Nobody is saying that all is well. Far from it. I was making a reference to the economic part of it compared to trucks. But saying all these people died from guns and we should ban then is extremely simplified.
Here is what I found: The figures are preliminary estimates from the National Safety Council, which says it currently estimates that last year (read 2015), "38,300 people were killed on U.S. roads, and 4.4 million were seriously injured, meaning 2015 likely was the deadliest driving year since 2008."

Does this mean all cars should be banned? No, of course not. There are idiots who use cars as a tool (transporting people and goods) and there are idiots who do the same thing wile intoxicated, while talking on the phone and driving and not paying attention, applying make up (mostly USA girls) while driving, etc. You get the point. Because of those idiots, should we ban cars? Or take their DL away? Even without the DL, are they guaranteed that they will not drink and drive again?

It is a much more complex situation from stating take the guns away. As much as I am for that, it is simply impossible.

The difference is banning cars would get more people killed due to famine, hypotermia, diseases ect.. due to the country descending into anarchy, total job losses for everybody ect. No more food from the grocery stores, no more heating from your furnace because no one can come and fix it ect.... you get the point
Yes I do but you obviously do not.

Sent from my LG-D605 using Tapatalk

over 10,000 people get killed unecessarily every single year....you don't have a point

« Reply #113 on: July 15, 2016, 07:48 »
0
Illegal guns are part of the same issue. They come from somewhere, and where they come from is private gun owners. Half a million guns are stolen from private owners every year in the U.S. So all those people arming themselves with arsenals to "protect their families" are making the illegal gun trade possible by supplying it with millions and millions of guns that were legally obtained at first.

And, of course, many terrorists around the world use arms manufactured in the USA. The United States is the world's largest exporter of arms, selling almost twice as many arms as Russia, in second place. So our fabulous gun culture extends itself all over the world.

Agreed. Nobody is saying that all is well. Far from it. I was making a reference to the economic part of it compared to trucks. But saying all these people died from guns and we should ban then is extremely simplified.
Here is what I found: The figures are preliminary estimates from the National Safety Council, which says it currently estimates that last year (read 2015), "38,300 people were killed on U.S. roads, and 4.4 million were seriously injured, meaning 2015 likely was the deadliest driving year since 2008."

Does this mean all cars should be banned? No, of course not. There are idiots who use cars as a tool (transporting people and goods) and there are idiots who do the same thing wile intoxicated, while talking on the phone and driving and not paying attention, applying make up (mostly USA girls) while driving, etc. You get the point. Because of those idiots, should we ban cars? Or take their DL away? Even without the DL, are they guaranteed that they will not drink and drive again?

It is a much more complex situation from stating take the guns away. As much as I am for that, it is simply impossible.

The difference is banning cars would get more people killed due to famine, hypotermia, diseases ect.. due to the country descending into anarchy, total job losses for everybody ect. No more food from the grocery stores, no more heating from your furnace because no one can come and fix it ect.... you get the point
Yes I do but you obviously do not.

Sent from my LG-D605 using Tapatalk

over 10,000 people get killed unecessarily every single year....you don't have a point
Ok. Read how many die in car accidents. And then twll me who doesnt have a point.

Sent from my LG-D605 using Tapatalk


« Reply #114 on: July 15, 2016, 07:56 »
+1
Illegal guns are part of the same issue. They come from somewhere, and where they come from is private gun owners. Half a million guns are stolen from private owners every year in the U.S. So all those people arming themselves with arsenals to "protect their families" are making the illegal gun trade possible by supplying it with millions and millions of guns that were legally obtained at first.

And, of course, many terrorists around the world use arms manufactured in the USA. The United States is the world's largest exporter of arms, selling almost twice as many arms as Russia, in second place. So our fabulous gun culture extends itself all over the world.

Agreed. Nobody is saying that all is well. Far from it. I was making a reference to the economic part of it compared to trucks. But saying all these people died from guns and we should ban then is extremely simplified.
Here is what I found: The figures are preliminary estimates from the National Safety Council, which says it currently estimates that last year (read 2015), "38,300 people were killed on U.S. roads, and 4.4 million were seriously injured, meaning 2015 likely was the deadliest driving year since 2008."

Does this mean all cars should be banned? No, of course not. There are idiots who use cars as a tool (transporting people and goods) and there are idiots who do the same thing wile intoxicated, while talking on the phone and driving and not paying attention, applying make up (mostly USA girls) while driving, etc. You get the point. Because of those idiots, should we ban cars? Or take their DL away? Even without the DL, are they guaranteed that they will not drink and drive again?

It is a much more complex situation from stating take the guns away. As much as I am for that, it is simply impossible.

The difference is banning cars would get more people killed due to famine, hypotermia, diseases ect.. due to the country descending into anarchy, total job losses for everybody ect. No more food from the grocery stores, no more heating from your furnace because no one can come and fix it ect.... you get the point
Yes I do but you obviously do not.

Sent from my LG-D605 using Tapatalk

over 10,000 people get killed unecessarily every single year....you don't have a point
Ok. Read how many die in car accidents. And then twll me who doesnt have a point.

Sent from my LG-D605 using Tapatalk

Cars are a necessary evil, what I mean by "necessary evil" is banning it would caused more death than having it, (read my previous post.)

Guns are not a necessay evil as banning most of it from the civilian population would decrease the death toll not increasing it as demonstrated in other countries

« Reply #115 on: July 15, 2016, 08:58 »
+3
you have to pass the health check, background check, psych eval, test, etc. in order to get a Driver's Licence. It should be same for guns.

I agree 100%.  You also have to register your vehicle and provide proof of insurance.  It should be the same for guns.  How could anybody be opposed to that?

« Reply #116 on: July 15, 2016, 09:08 »
+5
I carried today when I went out with my entire family to dinner, had pizza and a shake, no one died!

If I felt I needed to take a gun with me to go get pizza I would stay home or move.  You either live in a very dangerous place or suffer from some serious paranoia.

« Reply #117 on: July 15, 2016, 10:02 »
0
I carried today when I went out with my entire family to dinner, had pizza and a shake, no one died!


If I felt I needed to take a gun with me to go get pizza I would stay home or move.  You either live in a very dangerous place or suffer from some serious paranoia.


You never know what is going to happen. Not that I ever hope something like this will happen or do I worry that it will happen. When I am backpacking and carry a first aid kit, am I paranoid that I am going to get hurt and need to use it? No.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/headlines/20160712-robber-with-ak-47-shot-by-waffle-house-customer-desoto-police-say.ece

I do suggest that people who carry have extra training other than at the range. There are specific intense training environments that are available to the public. Once you are in this type of situation several things kick in such as stress, need to read the situation, and heart rate through the roof. Proper training will help you prepare for this type of situation but you never know how you will react until it happens to you. Proper training will also include the mental and physiological aspect of pulling your weapon and having to use it.
 

« Reply #118 on: July 15, 2016, 10:20 »
+1
When I am backpacking and carry a first aid kit, am I paranoid that I am going to get hurt and need to use it? No.

No, of course not - you don't think Mother Nature is out to get you.  Paranoia does not apply to nature.  Someone carrying a gun into a public place does it because they think they might need it - they think someone else might try to harm them, almost the definition of paranoid (unless of course someone actually does want to harm them, in which case wouldn't they stay home?).

I do suggest that people who carry have extra training other than at the range. There are specific intense training environments that are available to the public. Once you are in this type of situation several things kick in such as stress, need to read the situation, and heart rate through the roof. Proper training will help you prepare for this type of situation but you never know how you will react until it happens to you. Proper training will also include the mental and physiological aspect of pulling your weapon and having to use it.

Yes, I agree completely.  That is all very reasonable and exactly why we should leave it to the professionals - I suspect very few gun owners make the time to take this kind of training or take it as seriously as you do.


 

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