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Author Topic: snipers shoot dead police officers in Dallas  (Read 26104 times)

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« on: July 08, 2016, 01:58 »
+6


« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2016, 02:22 »
+15
I agree and it is simple: less guns more life.  :'(


my condolences to the families of the officers and my condolences also to the families and friends of the two black people killed by officers in the last days.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 02:43 by Dog-maDe-sign »

« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 03:47 »
+13
I wonder how bad it has to get before stricter gun laws are implemented?  The police shoot very few people in the UK because most of them don't carry guns, as so few people have them.  Maybe it makes us more vulnerable to the extremely rare times when someone goes crazy with a gun but it has to be better than having almost no gun controls.

« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2016, 04:15 »
+19
I wonder how bad it has to get before stricter gun laws are implemented?  The police shoot very few people in the UK because most of them don't carry guns, as so few people have them.  Maybe it makes us more vulnerable to the extremely rare times when someone goes crazy with a gun but it has to be better than having almost no gun controls.
The same number of people killed by Police shootings in UK in 24 years as 24 days in the states. I just can't understand the blind spot Americans have on guns. No point in debating further

Me


« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2016, 05:15 »
+23
Saw something recently, can't recall where, along lines of;

"If a kid in a playground is hitting the other kids with a stick, you don't give all the kids a stick, you take away the one stick so no one gets hurt."

I thought it kinda summed up gun laws/control in the US for me.

« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2016, 05:34 »
+3
Americans have their constitutional rights and they always go for that one when it comes to guns. And I am almost positive that most of these shootings are not legally purchased guns.

« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2016, 05:53 »
+6
Americans have their constitutional rights and they always go for that one when it comes to guns. And I am almost positive that most of these shootings are not legally purchased guns.

Presumably you don't mean the 1186 killed by the police in 2015? (whoops getting dragged into pointless arguement again :-( )

« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2016, 06:09 »
0
No you will not get an argument here.
Your assumption is correct. I meant non law enforcment shootings. What you are implying is yet completely another issue.

Sent from my LG-D605 using Tapatalk


« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2016, 06:14 »
+3
Did they have automatic assault rifles when the constitution was written ? Are there any limits on the type of gun you can buy in the us ?

« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2016, 06:24 »
0
Well apparently not, since the youtube is full of videos of people shooting anything from pistols to large caliber sniper rifles at random things...   

« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2016, 06:33 »
+1
I could not agree more. I am just saying what is the issue. Republicans and their view of their constitutional rights.

I am sure that these constitutional rights could still be there - but make it much harder to get a gun. Background check, psych eval, drug testing, 200+ hours of training, etc. Make it expensive. You are still guaranteeing these constitutional rights but not everyone could buy it.

When I was in States (I live and work in Bosnia now), it was weird to me that you could go to Walmart and buy guns like its a freaking candy. It was right there on the shelves like anything else.

So to sum it up, I agree with everyone but the reality is something else. Republicans will be republicans, democrats will be democrats

« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2016, 07:57 »
0
Did they have automatic assault rifles when the constitution was written ? Are there any limits on the type of gun you can buy in the us ?

No and apparently not.
When the second amendment was written (1791 I think), people were shooting muskets, and would average about 3 shots per minute. Semi- and automatic weapons made before 1986 can be owned legally (a generality...for specifics, google it), other than that, yes limits. But as already mentioned, one can buy just about anything they want, if you don't care about breaking the law.

IMHO, the second amendment needs to be amended and gun control laws need revamping.

« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2016, 10:43 »
+15
It doesn't need to be amended, just interpreted correctly.  The exact wording of the second amendment is, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed".  The intention was to allow the keeping and bearing of arms to be done exclusively in the context of a well regulated militia for the security of the state.  We can know this with absolute certainly because that's what it says in plain English.  Random yahoos keeping guns in their house is not well regulated, not a militia, and not involved in the security of the State, so absolutely, 100% is NOT allowed under the second amendment!  Individuals keeping arms outside of a militia is not covered by the constitution so should be left to the states.

This amendment was added most likely because the Revolution was fresh on the minds of the framers.  In 1791, the U.S. did not have a large, professional military like now.  In the event of an external threat (like the British), the military was augmented by militias organized by the states.  Most arms, powder and shot was stored at community magazines and would be issued to the militias when needed.  In 1774 and 1775 the British raided the magazines in the Massachusetts and Virginia colonies to try to prevent armed rebellion.  I think these events in part were what stimulated the Founders to add the second amendment.

The modern equivalent of a 1790s militia would be the National Guard, and so far nobody has talked about disarming them.  That is what is protected, not individuals owning guns outside of a militia.  Firearm ownership outside of a militia is not mentioned by the Constitution, so on that issue it is silent.  In the 1790s firearms were mostly flintlock muskets, which require a powder cartridge rammed in the barrel that is ignited by a flash of gunpowder started by a spark from flint hitting steel.  Guns were made by hand, so were not easily available and quite expensive - your average citizen certainly would not have owned one unless they needed it for hunting.  Keeping a lot of gunpowder in houses that were lit and heated by open flames was not a great idea, hence the communal magazines for the militias.  The Founding Fathers were very reasonable in most of their beliefs, and I am quite certain they would be appalled at how their words have been misconstrued to facilitate the rampant killing in this country.  It is a shame that one organization has been able to buy off so many members of Congress and get like-minded numbskulls appointed to the "Supreme" court to foist this travesty on the rest of us.  We don't need to amend the constitution, just read what is written and understand its historical context.  Unfortunately, that seems impossible so maybe it is time for the people to take back the country and rewrite that amendment in a way that could not by misinterpreted.

In Australia, after a series of shootings they put restrictions on gun ownership in 1996 and problems since then have dropped to almost none.  The American people need to be as sensible as the Australians.

The police killings of course are an entirely different matter and a very difficult problem.  Obviously the police do a very difficult job and have to make life-or-death decisions in a split second.  If they hesitate they might be killed.  On the other hand, it is quite clear that the police have been literally getting away with murder probably going back thousands of years and that needs to stop.  Finding the right balance so the police can protect themselves (and us!) while making sure those who cross the line are identified and punished is more difficult.  More cameras and a mandatory review plus a thorough psych evaluation of every cop who shoots someone (to identify any potential psychopaths) would be a good first step.

« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2016, 10:52 »
+2
I feel sorry for the families that lost a husband, father, etc
This world is out of control - everywhere.

« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2016, 11:07 »
+5
Yes, it is a terrible tragedy and it seems like this was a planned execution.  Bad behavior by police is no excuse for murder - the perpetrators are worse than those they were condemning - especially of officers who were only there to do their jobs.  The officers gunned down were innocent victims, but unfortunately are only a small part of the total carnage.  Last year over 13,000 people were killed by gun violence in the U.S. - it is long past time for this to stop.

« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2016, 11:11 »
+7
I don't need the constitution to tell me thats its my Human right to protect Myself and Family, I choose to own a gun for that very purpose. If you don't want to own a gun and think that by calling the police or lets say using a baseball bat will save your life or families lives in lets say a home invasion which typically involves two or more thugs who are armed then good luck with that, chances are you would wind up dead.

If you think that by outlawing guns that criminals and thugs won't have guns you are fooling yourself, just look at the terror attack on France that has the strictest gun laws. Hmm they seemed to have guns! There will always be a black market for guns. You might want to learn about Ghost Guns, most criminals seek to buy those. Millions of Americans own guns yet there are not millions of gun related deaths thats because most Americans are law abiding citizens who want to protect their families from people who do things like these snipers.

Guns are not the problem, if you outlaw guns they would use knives if you outlaw knives they would use rocks! It's the people who are the problem so stop blaming the guns. Their needs to be  racial unity but instead there is allot of racial divide and hatred, thats the problem.

« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2016, 11:12 »
+2
@sgoodwin4813...an excellent analysis of the second amendment and I agree totally. Well said on both posts.

« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2016, 12:12 »
+11
Guns are not the problem, if you outlaw guns they would use knives if you outlaw knives they would use rocks! It's the people who are the problem so stop blaming the guns. Their needs to be  racial unity but instead there is allot of racial divide and hatred, thats the problem.

   
jeepers creepers... pixel8 r u mad !? Of course the guns r the problem. Protect u're family by not selling guns, close the gun shops,    
carefully monitor the "arms" black market, drastically increase the penalties for carrying a weapon. Only in this way your families will be safer. U can not kill 5,10,20 or 50 people with knives and rocks.    

I personally live in a small town of 150k people(in europe) and did not see a gun in my life,    I have not heard a gunshot in my life.In my town there is no gun shop and if you are caught wearing a gun...even with rubber bullets you get a criminal record and you risk jail.

There are a lot of people with mental health problems in this century which is due to many factors and you let liberty to anyone arm themselves ? believing that in this way you will protect your family ? you must be unusual to think you have any chance ... logic is simple more guns = more deaths, fewer guns = less dead

Shelma1

  • stockcoalition.org
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2016, 12:21 »
+20
Oh god, if I hear one more ridiculous argument about France and thugs and criminals buying guns and protecting yourself from home invasions and they'll use a knife or a baseball bat or a pile of marshmallows I will barf.

We are a twisted country founded on invasion, genocide, war, slavery and white male supremacy. Unfortunately it's USA DNA. As the country gets less white, the white men feel power slipping away and encourage the proliferation of guns (for white men, natch), spend huge amounts on a super military, incarcerate black men for minor crimes at enormous rates (basically another form of slavery), militarize the police and give them carte blanche to kill black men for selling loosies or CDs or for having a "broken taillight."

We're an aggressive, warmongering third-world country. With people so stupid they think "Born in the USA" is a song about patriotism.

« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2016, 12:34 »
+1
I don't need the constitution to tell me thats its my Human right to protect Myself and Family, I choose to own a gun for that very purpose. If you don't want to own a gun and think that by calling the police or lets say using a baseball bat will save your life or families lives in lets say a home invasion which typically involves two or more thugs who are armed then good luck with that, chances are you would wind up dead.

I would agree partially. But, let me ask you this - Why have the testing for drivers licence? Why go through some call them health checks (depending on the country - some more some less)? Why not let anyone drive who can afford a car? I would argue like I said in first post - yes leave the right to own a gun but with much harsher checks and rules.

FlowerPower

« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2016, 12:50 »
+1
I don't need the constitution to tell me thats its my Human right to protect Myself and Family, I choose to own a gun for that very purpose. If you don't want to own a gun and think that by calling the police or lets say using a baseball bat will save your life or families lives in lets say a home invasion which typically involves two or more thugs who are armed then good luck with that, chances are you would wind up dead.

If you think that by outlawing guns that criminals and thugs won't have guns you are fooling yourself, just look at the terror attack on France that has the strictest gun laws. Hmm they seemed to have guns! There will always be a black market for guns. You might want to learn about Ghost Guns, most criminals seek to buy those. Millions of Americans own guns yet there are not millions of gun related deaths thats because most Americans are law abiding citizens who want to protect their families from people who do things like these snipers.

Guns are not the problem, if you outlaw guns they would use knives if you outlaw knives they would use rocks! It's the people who are the problem so stop blaming the guns. Their needs to be  racial unity but instead there is allot of racial divide and hatred, thats the problem.

Guns are not the problem, people misusing them is.

Moore's thesis, which he later elaborated in Fahrenheit 9/11, is that the fear-mongering that permeates American society contributes to our epidemic of gun violence". We are also shown news stories being covered in Canada and how they dont follow the if it bleeds it leads mentality. This adds to Moore's argument that the media is driving America's fear as well as their need for protection. The cartoon "A Brief History of the United States of America" encompasses Moore's view of where the fear in America started and how it's progressed and changed over the years.

I don't really like Michael Moore but he's right when he shows people just across the border from Detroit, in Canada, who are armed as much as many Americans, but don't go around shooting each other or police. It's attitude and people. Not the guns.

For the idea of take away the guns, only a fool would suggest that it's possible in the US to take away a right and the stockpile that has been accumulated in fear of the Government trying to take back weapons. Or for that matter, overthrow from outside, where people want to protect against any invasion or military coup.

Countries where the people have no choice, no defense and no weapons are rulled by dictators and the military. Mass murder and genocide are common. Look at so many in South America and Arfrica and tell me those people wouldn't benefit from being armed. How does that work for you lilly white no gun people?

This isn't as simple as take away the guns, which is impossible, so how about punish criminals, mandatory sentences for using a gun in a crime and proper background checks at gun shows. But mostly, enforce the laws we have.

Shelma1

  • stockcoalition.org
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2016, 13:15 »
+5

I don't really like Michael Moore but he's right when he shows people just across the border from Detroit, in Canada, who are armed as much as many Americans, but don't go around shooting each other or police. It's attitude and people. Not the guns.


Baloney. First of all, you're comparing the most dangerous city in the US to the safest city in Canada. That has nothing to do with geography and everything to do with poverty, racism, lack of opportunity and easy access to guns. Second, Windsor, Canada's police chief credits the huge difference in murder rates to...wait for it...Canada's policy of strict gun control.

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/a-tale-of-two-cities-windsor-and-detroit-murder-rates-show-stark-contrast

« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2016, 15:29 »
+3
Oh god, if I hear one more ridiculous argument about France and thugs and criminals buying guns and protecting yourself from home invasions and they'll use a knife or a baseball bat or a pile of marshmallows I will barf.

We are a twisted country founded on invasion, genocide, war, slavery and white male supremacy. Unfortunately it's USA DNA. As the country gets less white, the white men feel power slipping away and encourage the proliferation of guns (for white men, natch), spend huge amounts on a super military, incarcerate black men for minor crimes at enormous rates (basically another form of slavery), militarize the police and give them carte blanche to kill black men for selling loosies or CDs or for having a "broken taillight."

We're an aggressive, warmongering third-world country. With people so stupid they think "Born in the USA" is a song about patriotism.

+1000
And the best is yet to come, we may actually get a bigot for president soon!
America = too much freedom in all the wrong places!

« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2016, 15:48 »
+1

I don't really like Michael Moore but he's right when he shows people just across the border from Detroit, in Canada, who are armed as much as many Americans, but don't go around shooting each other or police. It's attitude and people. Not the guns.


Baloney. First of all, you're comparing the most dangerous city in the US to the safest city in Canada. That has nothing to do with geography and everything to do with poverty, racism, lack of opportunity and easy access to guns. Second, Windsor, Canada's police chief credits the huge difference in murder rates to...wait for it...Canada's policy of strict gun control.

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/a-tale-of-two-cities-windsor-and-detroit-murder-rates-show-stark-contrast


You missed the point. Why don't Canadians, just across the river, with guns, rob, murder and shoot each others, like their close neighbors? It's not the guns is it. Must be something else?

Poverty, opportunity and racism is the excuse for why people are inhuman to each other? You just tossed in guns for effect, right?

While the U.S. does have a homicide rate nearly double that of most developed countries like Canada, it doesnt have the worlds highest homicide rate. With 6.4 homicides per 100 thousand people, the U.S. falls behind countries in Africa, the Caribbean, Eastern Europe, and Latin America.

Do they have 10 million guns in Africa, the Caribbean, Eastern Europe, or Latin America? There are that in Canada and I repeat, Canadians aren't shooting each other.

Must be something about civilized people, not the guns.

Shelma1

  • stockcoalition.org
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2016, 15:59 »
+11

I don't really like Michael Moore but he's right when he shows people just across the border from Detroit, in Canada, who are armed as much as many Americans, but don't go around shooting each other or police. It's attitude and people. Not the guns.


Baloney. First of all, you're comparing the most dangerous city in the US to the safest city in Canada. That has nothing to do with geography and everything to do with poverty, racism, lack of opportunity and easy access to guns. Second, Windsor, Canada's police chief credits the huge difference in murder rates to...wait for it...Canada's policy of strict gun control.

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/a-tale-of-two-cities-windsor-and-detroit-murder-rates-show-stark-contrast


You missed the point. Why don't Canadians, just across the river, with guns, rob, murder and shoot each others, like their close neighbors? It's not the guns is it. Must be something else?

Poverty, opportunity and racism is the excuse for why people are inhuman to each other? You just tossed in guns for effect, right?

While the U.S. does have a homicide rate nearly double that of most developed countries like Canada, it doesnt have the worlds highest homicide rate. With 6.4 homicides per 100 thousand people, the U.S. falls behind countries in Africa, the Caribbean, Eastern Europe, and Latin America.

Do they have 10 million guns in Africa, the Caribbean, Eastern Europe, or Latin America? There are that in Canada and I repeat, Canadians aren't shooting each other.

Must be something about civilized people, not the guns.


No, I'm afraid YOU missed the point. YOU said people in Canada had just as many guns but didn't shoot each other like Americans do. YOU said it's the people, not the guns. But the Canadians say the difference is the GUNS. Everyone in the WORLD sees the difference is the guns. Most people in the USA see the difference is the guns. Only a small percentage of people...a small minority of Americans, who are themselves a small minority of the world population...just cannot or will not see the forest for the trees.

And if, for some reason, you still believe t's just because Americans are just more violent or crazy than everyone else (no argument from me), then why on earth would you want to arm those people with guns??? If you truly believe it's the people, then take the stupid guns away from them.


 

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