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Author Topic: GO Greece!  (Read 48740 times)

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« Reply #500 on: July 21, 2015, 17:23 »
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Greece would have gone to the drachma on a promise of looking at debt write-offs, but if Schwaeble went to his electorate to say that Germany had to forgive 30bn euros just to get Greece back to where it was before the drachma depreciated, plus another 15 billion to ensure sustainability, plus a generous social support package to keep the people going .... well, I don't think he'd survive the political fallout.

actually he would, which is why he proposed a "temporary" stepping out of the euro for 5 years. It would allow for writing off (some) debt, adding an aid package and devaluing the drachme to make greece more attractive for investors. a debt write off would obviously be done in stages, defer current payments and then write off debt when you see greece implementing reforms successfully. but at least with the drachme a debt write off is legally possible, with the euro it isnt.

but greece and especially the US have attacked him and Germany as if he had suggested that greece should leave Europe, which is nonsense of course. The NYT had all kinds of anti German bashing, bringing the war back up, like ww2 happened yesterday...just totally silly. and of course people here noticed how quickly we are all being branded as *. The blackmail might have worked on our parents generation, but me and those younger than me, it really is over. The US lost a lot of reputation, they should definetly stay out of european internal affairs.

Other european countries are upset that the US is only talking to Germany, as if Germany owns all of Europe.

Europe is discussing it all for the third time, it is not a new problem. Might look very confusing from overseas, but europe is not Germany and the euro is only one part of europe. so many countries are part of the eu which are doing well with their own currency.

Merkel and Schuble have full support here, if anything the latest developments have strengthened their positions, especially Schuble.

varoufakis said today that he was preparing a new currency for greece which would have been linked to the euro at a fixed lower value. but for whatever reason tsirpas didnt want it and V left.

doesnt stop him from attacking Germany and claiming they tried to push greece out of the euro,even though he himself seems to believe it would have been the best decision. the guy is just weird, but he seems to be popular.


« Reply #501 on: September 16, 2015, 07:52 »
+1
The strength of Europe has always been the diversity, the different successful paths explored by different nations which would serve as an example to other nations to improve themselves.

Looking at the history of Europe we can find in each century a different nation pushing the continent forward, and that was what put us in the vanguard of so many things. Many bad things have happened, but the positive ones are HUGE, from technological advances to the humanitarian concepts.

This monolithic, centralized, bureaucratic, opaque and anti-democratic organization that the EU has become is killing all of this and that is the reason why we are falling behind.


yes and yes !

the EU is killing our core identity and our soul.
europe has NEVER been united into a monolithic bloc in the last 3000 yrs and for very good reasons.

what we're witnessing now is a horrible social engineering experiment on our skin and of course it's miserably failing.

you just can't turn greece or poland into germany or viceversa, no matter what the eurocrats smoked, it's just not that easy to turn us into a bunch of zombies and drones.


the only way to make permanent changes is to give real benefits, not to make our life worse than before.
an alliance of small states can only work if everyone has something to gain, now instead everyone is losing and told to shut the F up.
Sorry, but that is just too funny. The EU is not trying to turn any country into Germany. It tries or wants to make things better and easier

http://econ.economicshelp.org/2007/03/benefits-of-european-union.html

Lets not forget, all countries using the Euro agreed to the terms to join. No one was forced into joining. Its still a democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_to_the_European_Union#Euro  *)


you DID forget though that GOVERNMENTS ONLY agreed to join the Euro: not a single EMU member country asked the electorate, only the latter would be fit for a "democracy" in my book!

What a pathetic understanding of "democracy". I bet almost losing Freedom of Panorama courtesy to your great EU bureaucrats out there would also be part of that marvellously "democratic" C'est la vie we would have had to take?

"The EU (...) make(s) things better and easier" -- as in outlawing Open Source software (we fought against this in 2005 and won), or as in forcing a Monsanto-style Seed Cartel down our throats outlawing organic home-growing in one's backyard (we fought against this last year and won, for the time being at least -- until that "democratic EU" forces us into CETA and TTIP the terms of which are negotiated over the electorates' heads, secretly and fully "democratically" behind closed doors), or as in now building that "European Army" I am sure every good anti-war activist plus collectivist world-improver really wants, or as in the ongoing "Digital-Goods VAT" mess that's killing Freelance and Arts Businesses all over the place (people are hurting left, right, and centre so I believe it is very cruel to tell Eurocrats are here to make things "better and easier")! Some photographer you are, the business part inseparably belongs to being one.

Seriously, what have you been smoking, and how deep asleep are you, indeed?! That "perfect world" you apparently (and, don't get me wrong, understandably) dream of is taken away and destroyed by your very heroes ALL THE TIME and, curiously, ON ANY OCCASION they bloody-can-find.

So experience and real-life facts clearly tell us time and again we should not support, let alone pay for, that kind of "Europe" -- not on the 800th anniversary of Magna Charta at that. Let 's not forget that one either ;)

---

*) **do note** that the Treaty of Maastricht is on creating an overall "Union" (that no one in their right mind could want), not primarily some currency with an outrageingly stupid name. You may also be surprised to learn that each and every single one asked if they wanted the Euro turned it down (even collectivist, super-progressive Sweden rejected the thing)...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 12:32 by stuttershock »

« Reply #502 on: September 16, 2015, 08:03 »
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- mis-edited and not finding any Delete function here, sorry guys -
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 08:11 by stuttershock »


 

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