The Hummer Thread

[dragonblade]

Continuing the 'Hummer' thread from the SS forum which will soon expire in late October. Hopefully, there will be some wildlife discussion here and all manner of other topics too. And also a place for people from the old SS forum to hang out.

[thijsdegraaf]

The reason is a pity, but nice of you to continue the topic here!!

[dragonblade]

Welcome! Good to see you here, Thijs.

[Jo Ann Snover]

Continuing the 'Hummer' thread from the SS forum which will soon expire in late October. Hopefully, there will be some wildlife discussion here and all manner of other topics too. And also a place for people from the old SS forum to hang out.

For those of us who were not regulars on the Shutterstock forums, could you outline what the topic/purpose of the Hummer Thread is?

[dragonblade]

For those of us who were not regulars on the Shutterstock forums, could you outline what the topic/purpose of the Hummer Thread is?

A very good question. With the word 'hummer', some people might think of a certain car. But I believe in this case, it relates to the hummingbird. So discussions about birds and other wildlife do feature a lot. But it's not limited to wildlife. Many other topics are discussed as well. The reason it developed on the SS forums is because there was no 'off topic' sub-forum over there. So basically, the Hummer thread was an off topic thread. That's the purpose it served.

Now some people might wonder what is the point of having the Hummer thread here as there is already an off topic sub-forum that is kind of used for the same thing more or less. Though on the Hummer thread over on SS, there was only a fairly small number of forum members who contributed. But at the same time a huge number of views - 1.5 million. I opened up this thread so that many of the people who participated on the SS Hummer thread could catch up here and continue their discussions. And other people who are not SS forum regulars are welcome to join in too.

[marthamarks]

Continuing the 'Hummer' thread from the SS forum which will soon expire in late October. Hopefully, there will be some wildlife discussion here and all manner of other topics too. And also a place for people from the old SS forum to hang out.

For those of us who were not regulars on the Shutterstock forums, could you outline what the topic/purpose of the Hummer Thread is?

Thanks for asking that, JoAnn. I was going to but you beat me to it.

I'm one of the bird/wildlife photographers here, so it might be of some interest to me.

[dragonblade]

Martha, that's great to know. There's one particular bird that I would really like to photograph and that's the humming bird. But I confess that Ive never seen one in my life as I live in Australia. I know that they are unique to the Americas. I visited Canada in the late 90s and was hoping to see hummingbirds there but didn't see any. A few years ago, I went to Michigan, US but didn't see any there either. Though I did see fireflies for the first time in Michigan and they were amazing. Really surreal. I regret not being able to photograph them because my camera battery was being charged at the time.

[marthamarks]

Martha, that's great to know. There's one particular bird that I would really like to photograph and that's the humming bird. But I confess that Ive never seen one in my life as I live in Australia. I know that they are unique to the Americas. I visited Canada in the late 90s and was hoping to see hummingbirds there but didn't see any. A few years ago, I went to Michigan, US but didn't see any there either. Though I did see fireflies for the first time in Michigan and they were amazing. Really surreal. I regret not being able to photograph them because my camera battery was being charged at the time.

Best place to see and photograph hummingbirds is in the Southwest: Arizona, California, New Mexico. 

I happen to live in NM and travel a lot in AZ, so I've had plenty of opportunities to see 'em.  But stili, they're a tremendous challenge to photograph. Getting good action shots takes bright light, fast lenses, skill, and being in the right place at the right time (ie, luck). I only use natural light, no flash.

I chose this one as the "cover" shot for my Wildlife Collection on AS:

https://stock.adobe.com/images/immature-broad-tailed-hummingbird-feeds-in-yellow-sunflower/89024271

If you click that link and then the "see more" link below that featured image, you'll find a few more of mine.

Lots of my shots are of immature hummers in my own back yard, which I no longer have. Because I planted hummingbird mint, sunflowers, Russian sage, and a few other hummer magnets, I got to "shoot" lots of babies as they were taking their first flights away from the nest.

[dragonblade]

Some nice imagery there of the hummers. Ah that's good to know of the best states to see them. My sister has seen hummingbirds when travelling through South America.

Oh yea I could imagine that they would be very challenging to photograph! I guess you prefocus on a flower and wait for them to move into the right spot?

And that's a good move setting up your garden to attract the hummers. Must be great seeing them in your own backyard.

[marthamarks]

My sister has seen hummingbirds when travelling through South America.

That's where they're all heading right now. They spend half the year in South America and the other half "up here."

I guess you prefocus on a flower and wait for them to move into the right spot?

No, once they move into the garden in good light, I follow them with my lens, shooting steadily, and throw away all the no-goods.

Must be great seeing them in your own backyard.

Yes, that's quite fun. They're noisy too, literally "humming" as they flit around.

And the Rufous hummers are aggressive. They arrive later than the others and chase them.

[Caymia]

I was never a regular poster on the Hummer thread but I do know a few of you from there. Might get to catch up with you from time to time here now
Dragonblade = Patrick?!

[RalfLiebhold]

Strange atmosphere now in the shutter forum, there is still quite a lot traffic in the "Show and Tell" section, like the titanic orchestra 

[Microstockphoto]

Continuing the 'Hummer' thread from the SS forum which will soon expire in late October. Hopefully, there will be some wildlife discussion here and all manner of other topics too. And also a place for people from the old SS forum to hang out.

For those of us who were not regulars on the Shutterstock forums, could you outline what the topic/purpose of the Hummer Thread is?

off topic chat thread, just chatter, wont take off here knowing the audience, but maybe with the influx off ss posters it might get some traction,

[dragonblade]

I was never a regular poster on the Hummer thread but I do know a few of you from there. Might get to catch up with you from time to time here now
Dragonblade = Patrick?!

Hey there Caymia. Good to have you onboard.

[Uncle Pete]

My sister has seen hummingbirds when travelling through South America.

That's where they're all heading right now. They spend half the year in South America and the other half "up here."

I guess you prefocus on a flower and wait for them to move into the right spot?

No, once they move into the garden in good light, I follow them with my lens, shooting steadily, and throw away all the no-goods.

Must be great seeing them in your own backyard.

Yes, that's quite fun. They're noisy too, literally "humming" as they flit around.

And the Rufous hummers are aggressive. They arrive later than the others and chase them.

Interesting. Ours already left, probably four weeks ago. One day at the feeder, the next none anywhere. They hang out in the hanging petunia planters too. I'd call them social, as they will come around, even when I'm sitting on the porch six feet away. And yes they do sound like a giant insect. If I can hear them, they must be loud. Wisconsin.



Not fantastic, back lighting, in the shade, but fun. I'd agree with your answer. Sit wait, shoot 100 photos or more and see if you got one good one.

[thijsdegraaf]

In the Netherlands we have no hummingbirds, I have seen them long ago in the covered Dutch butterfly garden in Emmen. Unfortunately I didn't have a good camera at the time.
But we sometimes have a Hummingbird hawk-moth (Macroglossum stellatarum) in the garden. A diurnal moth. They are difficult to photograph and resemble hummingbirds in the way they flying soek honey. (Photo not in focus for Shutter of course. I was hoping for a better photo this year, but unfortunately didn't see them. Better next year I hope)

[Uncle Pete]

Cheese Vindicated!

Is this the thread about nothing and anything?

Recent Study: Animal fats in our diet are not a cause for higher risk or heart conditions.

Also they might actually be good:

High levels of heptadecanoic acid, were associated with lower rates of strokes.

Heptadecanoic acid is a fatty acid of exogenous (primarily ruminant) origin. Many "odd" length long chain amino acids are derived from the consumption of dairy fats (milk and meat). Heptadecanoic acid constitutes 0. 61% of milk fat and 0. 83% of ruminant meat fat.

Hey nice to know, I can keep eating the things that I didn't stop eating because of invalid studies and false consumer wisdom.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-vindication-of-cheese-butter-and-full-fat-milk?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Lets hear it for cheese and sausage. 

[marthamarks]

Cheese Vindicated!

Is this the thread about nothing and anything?

Recent Study: Animal fats in our diet are not a cause for higher risk or heart conditions.

Also they might actually be good:

High levels of heptadecanoic acid, were associated with lower rates of strokes.

Heptadecanoic acid is a fatty acid of exogenous (primarily ruminant) origin. Many "odd" length long chain amino acids are derived from the consumption of dairy fats (milk and meat). Heptadecanoic acid constitutes 0. 61% of milk fat and 0. 83% of ruminant meat fat.

Hey nice to know, I can keep eating the things that I didn't stop eating because of invalid studies and false consumer wisdom.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-vindication-of-cheese-butter-and-full-fat-milk?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Lets hear it for cheese and sausage. 

Pete, you and I are old enough to remember the "Fat Is Bad" scare of the '90s. Every packaged product in the world went "fat free"� which really just meant "flavor free." I kept eating fat and it hasn't killed me yet. I'm not fat either, go figure.

Around that same time, we "women of a certain age" were highly recommended to take HRT (hormone replacement therapy), not only to ease the transition away from having our own estrogen to keep us young and lovely, but HRT was also supposed to fight off breast cancer, make us look/feel forever young, and keep us smart.   Then, out of the blue, the message came: STOP!!! HRT will actually **give you breast cancer** and it won't do anything to keep you smart.  So millions of women gave up the one thing that made us feel wonderful and went back to becoming old women at a natural pace.

Now, after a decade or so of taking baby aspirin because the docs said it would help us old-timers avoid heart attacks and stroke, the docs are saying STOP!!! Don't take baby aspirin!!! It will give you internal bleeding!!!

I'll keep on eating what makes me happy and taking as few meds and OTC products as I can possibly get away with. Bet you're doing the same thing too.

[Uncle Pete]

Cheese Vindicated!

Is this the thread about nothing and anything?

Recent Study: Animal fats in our diet are not a cause for higher risk or heart conditions.

Also they might actually be good:

High levels of heptadecanoic acid, were associated with lower rates of strokes.

Heptadecanoic acid is a fatty acid of exogenous (primarily ruminant) origin. Many "odd" length long chain amino acids are derived from the consumption of dairy fats (milk and meat). Heptadecanoic acid constitutes 0. 61% of milk fat and 0. 83% of ruminant meat fat.

Hey nice to know, I can keep eating the things that I didn't stop eating because of invalid studies and false consumer wisdom.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-vindication-of-cheese-butter-and-full-fat-milk?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Lets hear it for cheese and sausage. 

Pete, you and I are old enough to remember the "Fat Is Bad" scare of the '90s. Every packaged product in the world went "fat free"� which really just meant "flavor free." I kept eating fat and it hasn't killed me yet. I'm not fat either, go figure.

Around that same time, we "women of a certain age" were highly recommended to take HRT (hormone replacement therapy), not only to ease the transition away from having our own estrogen to keep us young and lovely, but HRT was also supposed to fight off breast cancer, make us look/feel forever young, and keep us smart.   Then, out of the blue, the message came: STOP!!! HRT will actually **give you breast cancer** and it won't do anything to keep you smart.  So millions of women gave up the one thing that made us feel wonderful and went back to becoming old women at a natural pace.

Now, after a decade or so of taking baby aspirin because the docs said it would help us old-timers avoid heart attacks and stroke, the docs are saying STOP!!! Don't take baby aspirin!!! It will give you internal bleeding!!!

I'll keep on eating what makes me happy and taking as few meds and OTC products as I can possibly get away with. Bet you're doing the same thing too.

Pretty scary isn't it. Margarine was supposed to be an answer and now, trans-fats are bad. Butter is better.

Egg yolks got the bad rap too, many people went to white or egg beaters, now recent controlled studies found, yolks aren't anything that we need to avoid.

Caffeine, coffee, beverages, comes around, up and down. It's bad for you, then it's good for you, then it doesn't matter. Might be healthful for heart conditions.

I was on Plavix (a blood thinner) doctor said, whatever you do, never stop taking this! You can miss other things, but don't miss this one. He left, retired got shot out the door, I don't know... new cardiologist, "why are you taking that? Stop right now it can cause internal bleeding" Turns out the risk for dying from internal bleeding and higher than a heart attack, especially after ten years. Oh nice, I don't bleed from a scratch, I don't bruise at the slightest bump, I'm happy. Lets hope this version is correct?

Back to the cheese and butter and milk thing. Part of the research and more recent studies, that changed how science views these, is past studies were people who self reported their intake. Kind of like a voluntary earnings poll  without valid data, controlled measurements, the previous studies were potentially flawed from the start.

I hadn't read the ups and downs of HRT. That is unfortunate.

So let me say, sugar is bad, sugar substitutes are bad, and the only conclusion, similar to what you said about fat free is. If it tastes good, spit it out. There's some kind of study, group or health food belief or something that says, whatever we eat, is going to harm us, especially if we enjoy and like it.

[thijsdegraaf]

Cheese Vindicated!

Is this the thread about nothing and anything?

Recent Study: Animal fats in our diet are not a cause for higher risk or heart conditions.

Also they might actually be good:

High levels of heptadecanoic acid, were associated with lower rates of strokes.

Heptadecanoic acid is a fatty acid of exogenous (primarily ruminant) origin. Many "odd" length long chain amino acids are derived from the consumption of dairy fats (milk and meat). Heptadecanoic acid constitutes 0. 61% of milk fat and 0. 83% of ruminant meat fat.

Hey nice to know, I can keep eating the things that I didn't stop eating because of invalid studies and false consumer wisdom.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-vindication-of-cheese-butter-and-full-fat-milk?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Lets hear it for cheese and sausage. 

Pete, you and I are old enough to remember the "Fat Is Bad" scare of the '90s. Every packaged product in the world went "fat free"� which really just meant "flavor free." I kept eating fat and it hasn't killed me yet. I'm not fat either, go figure.

Around that same time, we "women of a certain age" were highly recommended to take HRT (hormone replacement therapy), not only to ease the transition away from having our own estrogen to keep us young and lovely, but HRT was also supposed to fight off breast cancer, make us look/feel forever young, and keep us smart.   Then, out of the blue, the message came: STOP!!! HRT will actually **give you breast cancer** and it won't do anything to keep you smart.  So millions of women gave up the one thing that made us feel wonderful and went back to becoming old women at a natural pace.

Now, after a decade or so of taking baby aspirin because the docs said it would help us old-timers avoid heart attacks and stroke, the docs are saying STOP!!! Don't take baby aspirin!!! It will give you internal bleeding!!!

I'll keep on eating what makes me happy and taking as few meds and OTC products as I can possibly get away with. Bet you're doing the same thing too.

Pretty scary isn't it. Margarine was supposed to be an answer and now, trans-fats are bad. Butter is better.

Egg yolks got the bad rap too, many people went to white or egg beaters, now recent controlled studies found, yolks aren't anything that we need to avoid.

Caffeine, coffee, beverages, comes around, up and down. It's bad for you, then it's good for you, then it doesn't matter. Might be healthful for heart conditions.

I was on Plavix (a blood thinner) doctor said, whatever you do, never stop taking this! You can miss other things, but don't miss this one. He left, retired got shot out the door, I don't know... new cardiologist, "why are you taking that? Stop right now it can cause internal bleeding" Turns out the risk for dying from internal bleeding and higher than a heart attack, especially after ten years. Oh nice, I don't bleed from a scratch, I don't bruise at the slightest bump, I'm happy. Lets hope this version is correct?

Back to the cheese and butter and milk thing. Part of the research and more recent studies, that changed how science views these, is past studies were people who self reported their intake. Kind of like a voluntary earnings poll  without valid data, controlled measurements, the previous studies were potentially flawed from the start.

I hadn't read the ups and downs of HRT. That is unfortunate.

So let me say, sugar is bad, sugar substitutes are bad, and the only conclusion, similar to what you said about fat free is. If it tastes good, spit it out. There's some kind of study, group or health food belief or something that says, whatever we eat, is going to harm us, especially if we enjoy and like it.

Too much is not good. If you keep that up, you'll go a long way.
I am also an oldie. 
I recognize what you write, but I have also seen many people die unnecessarily early due to their lifestyle (eating, drinking, smoking)
In the past, fatty foods were often also important because people worked very hard (just like the hummingbirds!!!).. With an office job, for example, it's better to take it easy with food (or you have to run a lot every day, go to the gym,...    ).

[marthamarks]

So let me say, sugar is bad, sugar substitutes are bad, and the only conclusion, similar to what you said about fat free is. If it tastes good, spit it out. There's some kind of study, group or health food belief or something that says, whatever we eat, is going to harm us, especially if we enjoy and like it.

Yep, that's a pretty good summary of the situation.

Sugar is the Big Bogeyman right now, probably with good reason. I try to be good there, but it's a challenge.

[thijsdegraaf]

So let me say, sugar is bad, sugar substitutes are bad, and the only conclusion, similar to what you said about fat free is. If it tastes good, spit it out. There's some kind of study, group or health food belief or something that says, whatever we eat, is going to harm us, especially if we enjoy and like it.

Yep, that's a pretty good summary of the situation.

Sugar is the Big Bogeyman right now, probably with good reason. I try to be good there, but it's a challenge.

My wife has had diabetes for years, you get (not quite) used to thinking about it.

[Uncle Pete]

Yes, our founding fathers, drank beer for breakfast and often with every meal. That wasn't because of being sots, but because it was more pure than the water. Good reasoning. When people worked harder, they would eat and need a diet that was more loaded with rich ingredients and their body used them. I suppose now we just take pills for everything?

The simple point also, is anything in excess is going to be bad. But food is good, not bad. The natural and holistic people will try to tell you otherwise. It's like a cult following beliefs, where self validation means something related to a food fear obcession, instead of scientific facts.

But cheese isn't bad for you, won't shorten your life and maybe will make your life more enjoyable. Obviously I am a cheese lover, many different kinds, so yes I have a personal agenda for noticing this article and posting it. Cheese is one of my favorite foods, also for cooking and as snacks. I confess, I'm a Cheesehead.

I grew up with minimal sugar and salt. That was Mom's way. Never hurt me to not go overboard and pile it on. While the opposite I might question.

They charge extra to not put extra sugar or salt into things? How's that?

[marthamarks]

Too much is not good. If you keep that up, you'll go a long way.
I am also an oldie. 
I recognize what you write, but I have also seen many people die unnecessarily early due to their lifestyle (eating, drinking, smoking)
In the past, fatty foods were often also important because people worked very hard (just like the hummingbirds!!!).. With an office job, for example, it's better to take it easy with food.

What you say is true!  None of us needs the high-fat, calorie-rich diet that our grandparents needed, because they worked hard, physical jobs, and most of us don't.

As for the "lifestyle" matter, I have a personal story�

You weren't on this forum a year ago, but in December I reported that my husband had just died at age 82.

Now, his history is an "interesting" one. He never did drugs, never smoked (rare for his generation), hardly ever drank. Ate relatively little red meat, mostly fish and chicken. Exercised. Kept his weight down. Did everything possible to stay fit.

Nevertheless, despite that diligent lifelong lifestyle, in 2011 he came down with a brain disease called Viral Encephalitis. He survived it the first time around but then had a quick relapse. All in all, during 2011-12, he spent 3+ months in the hospital, specifically a neurological intensive care unit. It was not a happy time in our lives.

He survived all that and lived 9 years longer, only to have another relapse last fall and after 2 more months of a dire situation, died of the same long-time issues.

The dear man did everything possible to be healthy but ultimately died of a brain disease� thereby proving that there's no justice, zero fairness in such matters.

[Uncle Pete]

Too much is not good. If you keep that up, you'll go a long way.
I am also an oldie. 
I recognize what you write, but I have also seen many people die unnecessarily early due to their lifestyle (eating, drinking, smoking)
In the past, fatty foods were often also important because people worked very hard (just like the hummingbirds!!!).. With an office job, for example, it's better to take it easy with food.

What you say is true!  None of us needs the high-fat, calorie-rich diet that our grandparents needed, because they worked hard, physical jobs, and most of us don't.

As for the "lifestyle" matter, I have a personal story�

You weren't on this forum a year ago, but in December I reported that my husband had just died at age 82.

Now, his history is an "interesting" one. He never did drugs, never smoked (rare for his generation), hardly ever drank. Ate relatively little red meat, mostly fish and chicken. Exercised. Kept his weight down. Did everything possible to stay fit.

Nevertheless, despite that diligent lifelong lifestyle, in 2011 he came down with a brain disease called Viral Encephalitis. He survived it the first time around but then had a quick relapse. All in all, during 2011-12, he spent 3+ months in the hospital, specifically a neurological intensive care unit. It was not a happy time in our lives.

He survived all that and lived 9 years longer, only to have another relapse last fall and after 2 more months of a dire situation, died of the same long-time issues.

The dear man did everything possible to be healthy but ultimately died of a brain disease� thereby proving that there's no justice, zero fairness in such things.

Yes, there is no predicting or controlling and no justice.

I always thought it was good that your husband came along with you on your photo outings and stayed in the car, painting. When you showed me his work, I was even more impressed. He wasn't just doing hobby painting, being along on the road trips, he was outstanding and exceptional.

[thijsdegraaf]

Yes, our founding fathers, drank beer for breakfast and often with every meal. That wasn't because of being sots, but because it was more pure than the water. Good reasoning. When people worked harder, they would eat and need a diet that was more loaded with rich ingredients and their body used them. I suppose now we just take pills for everything?

The simple point also, is anything in excess is going to be bad. But food is good, not bad. The natural and holistic people will try to tell you otherwise. It's like a cult following beliefs, where self validation means something related to a food fear obcession, instead of scientific facts.

But cheese isn't bad for you, won't shorten your life and maybe will make your life more enjoyable. Obviously I am a cheese lover, many different kinds, so yes I have a personal agenda for noticing this article and posting it. Cheese is one of my favorite foods, also for cooking and as snacks. I confess, I'm a Cheesehead.

I grew up with minimal sugar and salt. That was Mom's way. Never hurt me to not go overboard and pile it on. While the opposite I might question.

They charge extra to not put extra sugar or salt into things? How's that?

I am also a cheese lover and come from a cheese country  . No, that seems excessive to me.
Fortunately, less fat cheese now tastes good, unlike in the past. So I sometimes buy that too.

[thijsdegraaf]

Too much is not good. If you keep that up, you'll go a long way.
I am also an oldie. 
I recognize what you write, but I have also seen many people die unnecessarily early due to their lifestyle (eating, drinking, smoking)
In the past, fatty foods were often also important because people worked very hard (just like the hummingbirds!!!).. With an office job, for example, it's better to take it easy with food.

What you say is true!  None of us needs the high-fat, calorie-rich diet that our grandparents needed, because they worked hard, physical jobs, and most of us don't.

As for the "lifestyle" matter, I have a personal story�

You weren't on this forum a year ago, but in December I reported that my husband had just died at age 82.

Now, his history is an "interesting" one. He never did drugs, never smoked (rare for his generation), hardly ever drank. Ate relatively little red meat, mostly fish and chicken. Exercised. Kept his weight down. Did everything possible to stay fit.

Nevertheless, despite that diligent lifelong lifestyle, in 2011 he came down with a brain disease called Viral Encephalitis. He survived it the first time around but then had a quick relapse. All in all, during 2011-12, he spent 3+ months in the hospital, specifically a neurological intensive care unit. It was not a happy time in our lives.

He survived all that and lived 9 years longer, only to have another relapse last fall and after 2 more months of a dire situation, died of the same long-time issues.

The dear man did everything possible to be healthy but ultimately died of a brain disease� thereby proving that there's no justice, zero fairness in such matters.

Very sad to hear. You can also say that your husband may have lived longer because of his healthy lifestyle. But you feel it is unfair.
My wife is diabetic, has had two meganic heart valves since she was 58 and had surgery for a tumor in her intestines 8 years ago.
She also often likes Why me? Still, I think if she had lived less healthy, it would have looked worse.

[marthamarks]

I always thought it was good that your husband came along with you on your photo outings and stayed in the car, painting. When you showed me his work, I was even more impressed. He wasn't just doing hobby painting, being along on the road trips, he was outstanding and exceptional.

Actually, for decades we traveled together and each did our own creative thing. But early in our life together, he was the one painting while I was the one sitting in or near the car reading or grading papers (that was back in my high-school-teaching days).  We were a well-matched, perfectly tuned couple until he got that * encephalitis� which turned everything in our lives upside down.

BTW, last summer I bought myself a camper van and have been enjoying it this fall. My kitty has learned to go with me, and we both can hardly wait for spring!

[marthamarks]

Very sad to hear. You can also say that your husband may have lived longer because of his healthy lifestyle. But you feel it is unfair.
My wife has had two meganic heart valves since she was 58 and had surgery for a tumor in her intestines 8 years ago.
She also often likes Why me? Still, I think if she had lived less healthy, it would have looked worse.

I'm not saying that what happened to my husband was "unfair", because none of us is guaranteed anything, just that it's not entirely "fair" either. Does that make sense?

I think you're right about the healthy living paying off in one way if not another.

My career-Army father, who survived active service in both WWII and the Korean War, lived to be 85. Lung cancer finally took him out, even though he had stopped smoking 20 years earlier. Once we knew his cancer was terminal, he told me he thought he'd beaten it by going off cigarettes when he did. I said, you might have died 10 years ago if you hadn't stopped when you did.

That's what you're saying here, and I believe it's right.

BTW, Daddy was actively involved in the liberation of Belgium and Holland in 1944-45, and during the following half year lived in the home of a wonderful Dutch family who treated him like a long-lost son. To the end of their mutual days, they stayed in touch. I remember meeting them as a little girl when we lived in Heidelberg, Germany, between 1951-54 and traveled all over Western Europe. We got Christmas messages from them for decades later.

[Uncle Pete]

I am also a cheese lover and come from a cheese country  . No, that seems excessive to me.
Fortunately, less fat cheese now tastes good, unlike in the past. So I sometimes buy that too.

Low salt low fat cheese looks and probably tastes like the putty I use on windows to keep the water out. 

I don't drink coffee, but why would someone drink decaf? Kind of defeats the whole reason and purpose. Why do people order a meatless "Impossible" burger that tastes like meat, if they are against eating meat? Isn't that a contradiction?

No I don't like Brussels sprouts, unless they are drenched in cheese and butter. I confess. I'll eat pretty much anything, including raw from the garden, or some pretty nasty things like a blind robin or pickled turkey gizzard, or marinated herring, but Brussels Sprouts are the one that tastes bitter and I can't stand to even smell it cooking. Lobster is a close second, which probably saved a lot of money in my lifetime, because it's way too expensive.

I'm just happy that for now, cheese has been vindicated, and might lose it's bad reputation, unjustly given to it by an unfair trial and conviction. 

ps Blue Cheese is on the top of my favorites list, on a plain pepper cracker. Yum Yum, creamy blue mold. That's got to be something that other people are turned away from? Oh well, we all have choices. I'm just in favor of fair treatment for foods.

[marthamarks]

I'm just in favor of fair treatment for foods.

Sounds like a great campaign slogan. Pete, are you planning to run for something?

[DOP]

Here's a screenshot of the original (second) Hummer Thread from the Sstock forum.
You all have a way to go to equal the posts (but it's nice to see this going again) 

[DOP]

In the Netherlands we have no hummingbirds, I have seen them long ago in the covered Dutch butterfly garden in Emmen. Unfortunately I didn't have a good camera at the time.
But we sometimes have a Hummingbird hawk-moth (Macroglossum stellatarum) in the garden. A diurnal moth. They are difficult to photograph and resemble hummingbirds in the way they flying soek honey. (Photo not in focus for Shutter of course. I was hoping for a better photo this year, but unfortunately didn't see them. Better next year I hope)

We get those in our garden too Thijs.  I have some photos of them feeding on Lungwort in my Sstock port.
Not as good as yours though as not so close-up.
I spent far too much time laying on the ground trying to get those photos 

[thijsdegraaf]

Very sad to hear. You can also say that your husband may have lived longer because of his healthy lifestyle. But you feel it is unfair.
My wife has had two meganic heart valves since she was 58 and had surgery for a tumor in her intestines 8 years ago.
She also often likes Why me? Still, I think if she had lived less healthy, it would have looked worse.

I'm not saying that what happened to my husband was "unfair", because none of us is guaranteed anything, just that it's not entirely "fair" either. Does that make sense?

I think you're right about the healthy living paying off in one way if not another.

My career-Army father, who survived active service in both WWII and the Korean War, lived to be 85. Lung cancer finally took him out, even though he had stopped smoking 20 years earlier. Once we knew his cancer was terminal, he told me he thought he'd beaten it by going off cigarettes when he did. I said, you might have died 10 years ago if you hadn't stopped when you did.

That's what you're saying here, and I believe it's right.

BTW, Daddy was actively involved in the liberation of Belgium and Holland in 1944-45, and during the following half year lived in the home of a wonderful Dutch family who treated him like a long-lost son. To the end of their mutual days, they stayed in touch. I remember meeting them as a little girl when we lived in Heidelberg, Germany, between 1951-54 and traveled all over Western Europe. We got Christmas messages from them for decades later.

Even the war has beautiful sides. It is hard to imagine that another war will break out between European countries around the Netherlands.
Historically, the tiny Netherlands has been at war with every neighboring country. Even against Belgium. 

[thijsdegraaf]

In the Netherlands we have no hummingbirds, I have seen them long ago in the covered Dutch butterfly garden in Emmen. Unfortunately I didn't have a good camera at the time.
But we sometimes have a Hummingbird hawk-moth (Macroglossum stellatarum) in the garden. A diurnal moth. They are difficult to photograph and resemble hummingbirds in the way they flying soek honey. (Photo not in focus for Shutter of course. I was hoping for a better photo this year, but unfortunately didn't see them. Better next year I hope)

We get those in our garden too Thijs.  I have some photos of them feeding on Lungwort in my Sstock port.
Not as good as yours though as not so close-up.
I spent far too much time laying on the ground trying to get those photos 

They are beautiful aren't they? I see its relative Broad-bordered Bee Hawk-moth (Hemaris fuciformis) more often, but it is also difficult to photograph sharply.

[DOP]

In the Netherlands we have no hummingbirds, I have seen them long ago in the covered Dutch butterfly garden in Emmen. Unfortunately I didn't have a good camera at the time.
But we sometimes have a Hummingbird hawk-moth (Macroglossum stellatarum) in the garden. A diurnal moth. They are difficult to photograph and resemble hummingbirds in the way they flying soek honey. (Photo not in focus for Shutter of course. I was hoping for a better photo this year, but unfortunately didn't see them. Better next year I hope)

We get those in our garden too Thijs.  I have some photos of them feeding on Lungwort in my Sstock port.
Not as good as yours though as not so close-up.
I spent far too much time laying on the ground trying to get those photos 

They are beautiful aren't they? I see its relative Broad-bordered Bee Hawk-moth (Hemaris fuciformis) more often, but it is also difficult to photograph sharply.

Yes, I was astonished when I first saw them + my husband made me laugh as he (seriously) asked if they were possibly very small birds 

I must look out for the hawk moth.

[DOP]

Sari - if you read this, I just checked you out on Google books + you have lots of hits for published photos in books.

[thijsdegraaf]

I am also a cheese lover and come from a cheese country  . No, that seems excessive to me.
Fortunately, less fat cheese now tastes good, unlike in the past. So I sometimes buy that too.

Low salt low fat cheese looks and probably tastes like the putty I use on windows to keep the water out. 

Why do people order a meatless "Impossible" burger that tastes like meat, if they are against eating meat? Isn't that a contradiction?

We always said that about the cheese, but it tastes much better now in the Netherlands. (But my favorite cheese: Very old cheese)
My nephew (son of my wife's brother) is a cheese carrier at the cheese market in Alkmaar, where we live nearby. Website Cheese market  https://www.kaasmarkt.nl/en.

No it's not a contradiction Pete.
My father was a farmer. He had about 30 dairy cows, 30 pigs and sheep. We had a lot of land. That was very normal then.
Now you have a lot of factory farming in the Netherlands with thousands of pigs. One hundred cows is not much. Farmers now need a lot more animals to earn as much as my father did. If there is swine fever it is a disaster.
The CO2 emissions are far too large for such a small country. It is also not animal friendly.
That is the advantage of organic meat. That means much less pollution. And becomes tastier. Many people from the Netherlands eat it for that reason.
On TV I now saw them experimenting with printed meatless meat, which according to top chefs is almost indistinguishable from the real thing. Now a lot of soy is used in animal feed, which is better used elsewhere. People have also come a long way with making milk directly from grass. Not yet for drinking, but already as a replacement for soy in animal feed. When my father was a farmer, we had never heard of soy.

[marthamarks]

It is hard to imagine that another war will break out between European countries around the Netherlands.

True that.  (Or as some prefer to say� True dat! )

Unfortunately, it looks more likely that war � another civil war � will break out here in the United States than anywhere "across the water."  Sad. Scary.

[sgoodwin4813]

Cheese Vindicated!

Recent Study: Animal fats in our diet are not a cause for higher risk or heart conditions.

Also they might actually be good:

Thanks for pointing that out - now I can go back to having milk on my breakfast cereal again instead of beer!

[cathyslife]

Martha, that's great to know. There's one particular bird that I would really like to photograph and that's the humming bird. But I confess that Ive never seen one in my life as I live in Australia. I know that they are unique to the Americas. I visited Canada in the late 90s and was hoping to see hummingbirds there but didn't see any. A few years ago, I went to Michigan, US but didn't see any there either. Though I did see fireflies for the first time in Michigan and they were amazing. Really surreal. I regret not being able to photograph them because my camera battery was being charged at the time.

I�m late to the party. I just looked at the dates. I�d delete this if I could. Oh well.

My brother lives in South Carolina and he gets tons of them at his feeder.

[Uncle Pete]

Martha, that's great to know. There's one particular bird that I would really like to photograph and that's the humming bird. But I confess that Ive never seen one in my life as I live in Australia. I know that they are unique to the Americas. I visited Canada in the late 90s and was hoping to see hummingbirds there but didn't see any. A few years ago, I went to Michigan, US but didn't see any there either. Though I did see fireflies for the first time in Michigan and they were amazing. Really surreal. I regret not being able to photograph them because my camera battery was being charged at the time.

I�m late to the party. I just looked at the dates. I�d delete this if I could. Oh well.

My brother lives in South Carolina and he gets tons of them at his feeder.

Better late than never?