Author Topic: The mood around here lately (Read 37947 times)

Greg Boiarsky · « **on:** April 12, 2007, 10:00 »

I'm not sure why--maybe it's in the air or water or something--but the mood on microstockgroup has been pretty sour lately. Not a day goes by that we don't see negative comments about a microstock company (first IS, now DT). Either that, or it's some snide comment that was thoughtlessly posted and caused a lot of offense. I'll be the first to admit that I've said some things, particularly about IS, that I should have kept to myself.

So, what's my point? My point is that I think our group has lost its way. What started as a forum for exchanging information and occasional venting about annoying rejections has become an all-out war on those we think have wronged us in some way. We need to get back to what this forum used to be, I think. We need to once again make this forum a place in which to exchange information and to learn.

I suggest we consider the following:

1. Realize that the micros are businesses, and that they come with the evils and benefits of any business. This means that they will do things we disagree with and that may be downright harmful to suppliers. I don't suggest that we simply let that happen, but rather that we stick to facts--what has been done, and what should be our response. If we continue with the nasty, sometimes racist commentary, we just look bad. If we feel that strongly about a company, we boycott. Maybe our boycott will be tilting at windmills, but we can at least feel good about ourselves and our responses.

2. Use microstockgroup.com as an information exchange. What I've found most useful about this place is all the information about new companies, new imaging techniques, and stock trends. I also like to hear good news from other photographers, things like EL sales and things like that. I also like the fact that this group was directly responsible for discovering and getting rid of an unethical reviewer (at StockXpert, I think) who had stolen our images and posted them on other micros.

3. Use this group for some well-needed venting. BUT, rather than simply going off and being angry, we might consider things like posting rejected images so that others can give us a reality check about how good the rejected images really were. I could use that kind of feedback occasionally.

Tyler has set up a unique forum. I'd hate to see it ruined because we've lost our manners. At the least, we owe it to him to do a bit of self-censoring and post more reasonable and rational commentary. I'd hate to think that this would be a place where locked or deleted threads are frequently necessary.

thesentinel · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2007, 10:52 »

I tried to lighten the mood with a response about wallpapers on mobile phones

Opla · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:08 »

I agree wholehearted Professorgb. This was always was a place to learn about microstock to me. Lately I see a lot of offensive language, even to me.
Lets think twice before posting.

sharply_done · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:12 »

Every ship, regardless of size, needs a captain. Without proper guidance, a leaderless ship will reach its destination only by chance or luck.

I've been here only a care while, and it's rather obvious to me that this place has reached a size such that it needs leadership. In corporatespeak, we need a "Mission Statement" along with clearly stated policies.

The questions that I think need to be addressed are these:

Apart from being "A meeting place for microstock photographers", what is this forum all about? (i.e. Why are we here? What is it we hope to accomplish?)
Who is in charge?
What are the rules?
What type of behavior is unacceptable?
What is the tolerance level for unacceptable behavior?
What happens when rules are broken?
What are the consequences for repeated offenses?

These things, and probably much more, need to clearly defined and written down. It is my belief that without them we are doomed to sail in circles.

sharply_done · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:17 »

Quote from: sharply_done on April 12, 2007, 11:12

I've been here only a care while, and it's rather obvious...

Bizarre behavior: The word care is supposed to be the word s-h-o-r-t. It won't change, even in this post, unless I spell it with hyphens!

PenelopeB · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:35 »

Maybe it's a sign that we need to "care" more about what and how we say things without losing the freedom to express things that are importants to each of us.

red_moon_rise · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:37 »

Ha Ha. Happened to me too. I had to change "S-H-O-R-T term" into "meantime".
There is a conspiracy going on that is directed against the word "S-H-O-R-T".
Free "S-H-O-R-T"y.

sharply_done · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:41 »

... hopefully the problem will be fixed carely.

CJPhoto · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:47 »

Didn't you know about the new height discrimination policy at this site. YOu are no longer allowed to call some one short!

sharply_done · « **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2007, 11:56 »

The same glitch works in reverse: s-h-o-r-t becomes c-a-r-e.
Good thing it doesn't get stuck in a loop!

steve-oh · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2007, 12:18 »

Before coming to Stockxpert, I was the editor of the graphics.com network. There are two very active forums over there, graphics.com and graphicdesignforum.com.

It seems every forum goes through a period like this. We most recently went through this over in SXC's forums.

For SXC, I adapted Code of Conduct and Forum Usage Guidelines that were already in place at GraphicDesignForum, and it seems to have helped a lot. Feel free to use as a template if you feel it's what's needed here at this point.

http://www.sxc.hu/forums/topic/12788
http://www.sxc.hu/forums/topic/12787

BTW, when forums get to this stage in their evolution, I usually consider them to be officially successful.

And, as always, the members do a good job of steadying the ship.

-Steve

StockManiac · « **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2007, 13:18 »

This forum means many different things to many different people.

For some, it is a place to catch up on industry news. It is much easier going to one source for information, than it is to visit a dozen various microstock sites and try and find the most important threads.

For others, this site is about accomplishments. If someone has finally been accepted by a site, reached a certain level of accomplishment, been published, or found their image somewhere, they want to share that with their comrades.

For others, this site is about venting their frustrations that they are having with the various microsites. For example, having a vast majority of images rejected, when those same images have been accepted everywhere else, can be extremely frustrating. This is actually a large function of this site, because you can't post these sorts of comments on the microstock sites themselves. If you do, they will lock or delete the thread, probably warn you, and possibly ban you. And to top it off, they will ridicule you, because they know that they can.

Because you can't question microstock companies policies or post "negative" comments on their boards, people come here (or to similar forums). So you will inevitably see more "negative" type posts here than positive ones.

What I also hope that this forum can be is a place where we (as artists) can band together to make the microstock industry a better place to do business. Currently the stock sites are renegades that go by their own rules. There are no industry standards for most things. There are no industry watchdogs. In other words, there is no regulation in this industry whatsoever.

There is an old saying:

Power tends to corrupt
Absolute power corrupts absolutely

If a site does something wrong, then we should hold their feet to the fire. Otherwise, there is nobody to stop them from doing anything they want. After all, these are agencies that are supposed to be representing us.

You can't expect every topic to be positive. If that is what you are looking for, then just go to the site message boards. There is plenty of that going on over there. IS could come out and say that they will be reducing royalties, and people would line up to say "Thank You", "Great Job", "Keep it Up", blah, blah, blah.

But whatever we view this site as, I agree that we should try and be polite and respectful to those around us.

Quote from: Professorgb on April 12, 2007, 10:00

I also like the fact that this group was directly responsible for discovering and getting rid of an unethical reviewer (at StockXpert, I think) who had stolen our images and posted them on other micros.

To set the records straight: It wasn't StockXpert, it was Galastock. And this is just one example where we came together as a community and fixed something that was wrong. You can read the full thread here:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?topic=564.0

Quote from: sharply_done on April 12, 2007, 11:12

Every ship, regardless of size, needs a captain.

There already is a Captain (actually he is more like a General), and he is doing a fantastic job.

Greg Boiarsky · « **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2007, 13:40 »

Quote from: StockManiac on April 12, 2007, 13:18

Because you can't question microstock companies policies or post "negative" comments on their boards, people come here (or to similar forums). So you will inevitably see more "negative" type posts here than positive ones.

I disagree. The degree of negativity expressed here is a function of the desires of the people who post. If you wish to spread negativity with very little leavening of positivity, that's your choice. I, for one, will not create such posts any longer. And, if these negative attack posts continue I will leave. That may not be much of a loss to the forum, but it will be a large and regrettable loss for me.

Quote from: StockManiac on April 12, 2007, 13:18

You can't expect every topic to be positive. If that is what you are looking for, then just go to the site message boards. There is plenty of that going on over there. IS could come out and say that they will be reducing royalties, and people would line up to say "Thank You", "Great Job", "Keep it Up", blah, blah, blah.

Do you go out of your way to antagonize people? I'm no Pollyanna and I'm no fan boy. If I see a problem, I'll point it out. And, I'll do it clearly and cogently but without the rudeness. I can and have made negative posts.

I'm not sure why you have a problem with my call for a little positivity. It is just that tone that has me seriously considering leaving here. You, and others who post similarly, need to learn that you can disagree without being personal or rude. And, you must learn that sometimes you just have to agree that you will disagree--to use an old cliche.

Quote from: StockManiac on April 12, 2007, 13:18

To set the records straight: It wasn't StockXpert, it was Galastock. And this is just one example where we came together as a community and fixed something that was wrong. You can read the full thread here:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?topic=564.0

Thanks for the correction--I wondered if I had that wrong. I should have done a search to get the facts straight.

StockManiac · « **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2007, 13:54 »

Professorgb:

Don't take things so personally. My post wasn't directed at you. I would have quoted you if it was. It was a reply to the general comments that were made in the thread overall.

If you notice I quoted two people at the bottom of my thread. Those were comments directed at the individuals (one of them being you), but the top part of the thread was generic.

sharply_done · « **Reply #14 on:** April 12, 2007, 14:03 »

For what it's worth, Professorgb, I'm right there with you.

Quote from: StockManiac on April 12, 2007, 13:18

But whatever we view this site as, I agree that we should try and be polite and respectful to those around us.

Can't help but agree there. There are ways, though, to present potentially inflammatory subjects that you haven't explored. May I suggest this as a beginning?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

The topics entitled "Twelve Ways to Win People to Your Way of Thinking" and "Nine Ways to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment" may be of particular interest to you.

Greg Boiarsky · « **Reply #15 on:** April 12, 2007, 14:04 »

Honestly, I'm not taking things personally. But, you were replying to a thread I started and you did quote me.

Nonetheless, I stand behind my call: Exercise some care with how you write on these forums. We have nothing but your wording to go by. If your wording is rude, then we will take your comments as intentional rudeness. Write carefully, and then edit your writing before you hit the "Post" button. I highlighted your phrasing because it irritated me. It was smug and condescending, whether you intended it to be that way or not.

It's incredibly easy to be negative. The hard part is to be positive. It takes more time, but the rewards are worth it.

Oh, and I'm not s-h-o-r-t. I'm t-a-l-l. Does that mean I don't "care"? I wonder . . .

Quote from: StockManiac on April 12, 2007, 13:54

Professorgb:

Don't take things so personally. My post wasn't directed at you. I would have quoted you if it was. It was a reply to the general comments that were made in the thread overall.

If you notice I quoted two people at the bottom of my thread. Those were comments directed at the individuals (one of them being you), but the top part of the thread was generic.

Greg Boiarsky · « **Reply #16 on:** April 12, 2007, 14:07 »

Quote from: sharply_done on April 12, 2007, 14:03

For what it's worth, Professorgb, I'm right there with you.

Thanks. Your measured responses in the last few days have been one of the major reasons I haven't deactivated my account here.

StockManiac · « **Reply #17 on:** April 12, 2007, 14:29 »

Quote from: Professorgb on April 12, 2007, 14:04

Honestly, I'm not taking things personally. But, you were replying to a thread I started and you did quote me.

Actually, IMO, you are being overly sensitive. You might have started the thread, but there were 10 posts between yours and mine. Not every post after yours was directed towards you.

You have your opinion, that is fine. But you need to remember that others have the right to post their opinion as well. Yours isn't the only one that counts.

Greg Boiarsky · « **Reply #18 on:** April 12, 2007, 14:43 »

Quote from: StockManiac on April 12, 2007, 14:29

You have your opinion, that is fine. But you need to remember that others have the right to post their opinion as well. Yours isn't the only one that counts.

Since I'm not a fish, I guess I won't take the bait. I have an Alamy submission to prepare, and then hope in vain to sell something.

See ya around, Maniac.

sharply_done · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2007, 15:31 »

StockManiac: You have unintentionally offended Professorgb. Your lack of acknowledgement and dismissal of his feelings (as being overly sensitive) is exactly the point he was trying to make when concluding his original post:

Quote from: Professorgb on April 12, 2007, 10:00

... I'd hate to see it ruined because we've lost our manners. At the least, we owe it to him to do a bit of self-censoring and post more reasonable and rational commentary. ...

A simple "I'm sorry I offended you, but ..." may have worked wonders, perhaps even opening a productive discussion between the two of you. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but you must exercise caution in expressing it, and be prepared to smoothly deal with its results. Dismissing people's reaction to what you write as being too sensitive is not a way to win them over to your side.

That's all for me as well - I gotta get back to making pictures!

rjmiz · « **Reply #20 on:** April 12, 2007, 16:46 »

The group dynamics will change eventually.
Lots of people..... create lots of moods.
Weather may affect people, Spring not arriving fast enough.

Let it be....3 month down the road this thread will have disappeared as well as the attitudes.

madelaide · « **Reply #21 on:** April 12, 2007, 17:00 »

We need a spiritual cleansing of the site to send bad spirits away.

I believe every opinion can be expressed, it's just a matter of how to say it. Loss of temper is a very common problem in any forum, and we have to think twice before posting. Each of us has some kind of issue with sites we submit. Some have given up sites because of these issues, some instead stay and try to promote change - even if it's a lost battle - or live with it.

Following Professor's attittude, a good suggestion would be: whenever we get angry during some discussion here, forget the forum for a couple of hours and go edit and submit your photos.

Regards,
Adelaide

a.k.a.-tom · « **Reply #22 on:** April 12, 2007, 17:18 »

amen.

-tom

a.k.a.-tom · « **Reply #23 on:** April 12, 2007, 17:23 »

Quote from: sharply_done on April 12, 2007, 11:17

Quote from: sharply_done on April 12, 2007, 11:12
I've been here only a care while, and it's rather obvious...

Bizarre behavior: The word care is supposed to be the word s-h-o-r-t. It won't change, even in this post, unless I spell it with hyphens!

I am currently rolling on the floor in laughter. ROFLOL I just posted on another thread and have been spending the last 20 minutes or more trying to fix a "short" that keeps coming up "care". LOL LOL LOL.... I finally had to rewrite the paragraph and make my point without using the word "short".

I really enjoy MSG. I thank Leaf for his patience.

Hey... I just realized when proof reading this that even here s-h-o-r-t
will probably come up care unless I go back and do this... s-h-o-r-t...
LOL LOL LOL

modify: hey, it came up 'short' ...how about that?

leaf · « **Reply #24 on:** April 12, 2007, 17:43 »

that's cause i just fixed it

short short short

well i think this is a nice thread with some good thoughts, and I would tend to agree with stockmaniac about 'negative' posts.

first of all there is a difference between 'negative' posts and insulting posts. Insulting posts have no purpose or use here and only cause fights and disrespect. Negative posts however can be informative and usefull. I think one of the uses of this site is to discuss our opinions about the site. If an opinion is negative it should be able to be expressed as long as it is not in a disrepectful way. Since the stock sites themselves often don't like negative posts they may more often pop up here.

I think the reviewer stealing images is an excellent example of the purpose of a negative thread. By questioning the motives of what was going on - something was done about the problem. Other 'negative' threads such as the current keywording thread for dreamstime, or istock exclusivity is a matter of opinion and has no 'right' or best answer - but newer users might be interesed in the pro's and con's of the situation. if things are put forward in a fair manner i don't see a problem with it - and see it serving a purpose.

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Author Topic: The mood around here lately (Read 37947 times)

Greg Boiarsky

thesentinel

Opla

sharply_done

sharply_done

PenelopeB

red_moon_rise

sharply_done

CJPhoto

sharply_done

steve-oh

StockManiac

Greg Boiarsky

StockManiac

sharply_done

Greg Boiarsky

Greg Boiarsky

StockManiac

Greg Boiarsky

sharply_done

rjmiz

madelaide

a.k.a.-tom

a.k.a.-tom

leaf

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