Author Topic: The mood around here lately (Read 31782 times)

Greg Boiarsky · « **Reply #25 on:** April 12, 2007, 17:49 »

Quote from: leaf on April 12, 2007, 17:43

first of all there is a difference between 'negative' posts and insulting posts. Insulting posts have no purpose or use here and only cause fights and disrespect. Negative posts however can be informative and usefull.

However poorly I may have worded it, this is the point I was making. Constructive criticism is great. Bashing is harmful. It's a fine line between the two, but I'm sure we can all find our way . . .

le_cyclope · « **Reply #26 on:** April 12, 2007, 18:00 »

Quote from: leaf on April 12, 2007, 17:43

first of all there is a difference between 'negative' posts and insulting posts. Insulting posts have no purpose or use here and only cause fights and disrespect. Negative posts however can be informative and usefull. I think one of the uses of this site is to discuss our opinions about the site. If an opinion is negative it should be able to be expressed as long as it is not in a disrepectful way. Since the stock sites themselves often don't like negative posts they may more often pop up here.

I fully agree with you Leaf and I want to say that I really appreciate the work you do here.

There are 2 reasons why, even if I don't contribute often to this forum, I read all the threads here:
1. I know that opinions expressed here are free and honest, even if sometimes they are expressed in a maybe rude manner

2. We can compare here any site with any other site, and being relatively new to MS world, this is very usefull to me (and to others I'm sure!)

So I really hope that this forum will last very long with every contributor in it!

Claude

leaf · « **Reply #27 on:** April 12, 2007, 18:03 »

Quote from: Professorgb on April 12, 2007, 17:49

Quote from: leaf on April 12, 2007, 17:43
first of all there is a difference between 'negative' posts and insulting posts. Insulting posts have no purpose or use here and only cause fights and disrespect. Negative posts however can be informative and usefull.

However poorly I may have worded it, this is the point I was making. Constructive criticism is great. Bashing is harmful. It's a fine line between the two, but I'm sure we can all find our way . . .

yes- a very fine line.... often hard to see unfortunately :S

admart01 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 12, 2007, 19:28 »

I've learned that leadership looks different to folks.. I believe "leaf" offers leadership on microstockgroup and does a wonderful albeit subtle job. For my "day job" I do mission statement work (and other stuff) and find that "a meetingplace for microstock photographers" to be an ample one. Too much gets in the way sometimes. Simple and open offers freedom.

It's strange .. when I connected tonight I wondered what the mood would be here -- so while it might look like I'm taking issue with some of your thougths, professorgb, I totally agree with the sense of climate that started your post.
(I also wondered "what's the deal with senior member, junior member, and full member" ... but that's another thing

I've appreciated some of the tips/techniques threads that "sharply_done" and "the miz" have contributed to (side note that I've used these on some lack luster shots and, while not accepted everywhere, did get some accepted on some sites - better than I would have without the tips.

Greg Boiarsky · « **Reply #29 on:** April 12, 2007, 20:19 »

It's all good. I did what I hoped I could--I stimulated discussion and got people thinking about how their posts would affect other people. I must admit that I was getting tired of all the negativity, but now the air seems to have cleared nicely.

This is a good group.

Quote from: admart01 on April 12, 2007, 19:28

It's strange .. when I connected tonight I wondered what the mood would be here -- so while it might look like I'm taking issue with some of your thougths, professorgb, I totally agree with the sense of climate that started your post.
(I also wondered "what's the deal with senior member, junior member, and full member" ... but that's another thing

ianhlnd · « **Reply #30 on:** April 12, 2007, 20:29 »

Well, as long as we're beating our hearts and trying to politely stifle frank discussion for the sake of political correctness, I'll be one who apologizes for every remark or rant I've made, and hope anyone to which this was intended either directly or indirectly will forgive me, I lay prostate at your feet and beg forgiveness.

Now, let's get serious.

There's a lot of people who are new to the arts, or who grew up in an atmosphere of mutual acceptance of mediocre effort. You see these guys all the time, they have the bumper stickers that say "My child was . . . .. . .. . " whatever at such and such school.

They hand out hundreds of these a month and parents proudly paste them to their cars to celebrate their mediocracy.

In the arts, the criticism isn't so polite. You bare your soul to the world, with all expectations of acclaim and you find that the world doesn't feel the same as you do. And it's usually not in the form of "Oh, it's nice." but usually something like "it's crap, where in the blackness of your mind did you dredge up that vision?" When you can handle that sort of criticism, or frank speach, then you're on your way to be able to call yourself an artist.

Heretofore, it has only been in the arts where frank speach has been acceptable. Once the arts become politically correct, will be the death of the arts. We'll be doing pictures of our "heroic leaders" and struggling masses overcoming obstacles of the social system.

Look at Imus, although not a fan, I heard him say a couple words which he obviously learned from the rap vernacular. Wrong? Absolutely. But, we have heard these words thousands of times on the news following the incident. All top ten songs by rap artists have one or all of these words. The difference is, he has sponsors that will feel the heat. Al Sharpton has a constituency that needs to hear that he's doing something, and Jesse Jackson, well, Jesse Jackson, he needs the donations, voluntary or extorted.

The point, at last. Yes, there does need to be civility on the forums, but this form of civility should never stifle frank, and sometimes provocative discussion of our chosen avocation. Yes, the sites do not belong to the contributors, but without the contributors there won't be a site........much like Imus.

PS. To imply that this site is out of control or running on autopilot is ridiculus. The moderator has done an excellent of modifying or deleting some of my posts he knew I would be ashamed of in the morning.

Greg Boiarsky · « **Reply #31 on:** April 12, 2007, 21:19 »

So much for civility.

Bye.

Quote from: ianhlnd on April 12, 2007, 20:29

Well, as long as we're beating our hearts and trying to politely stifle frank discussion for the sake of political correctness, I'll be one who apologizes for every remark or rant I've made, and hope anyone to which this was intended either directly or indirectly will forgive me, I lay prostate at your feet and beg forgiveness.

Now, let's get serious.

There's a lot of people who are new to the arts, or who grew up in an atmosphere of mutual acceptance of mediocre effort. You see these guys all the time, they have the bumper stickers that say "My child was . . . .. . .. . " whatever at such and such school.

They hand out hundreds of these a month and parents proudly paste them to their cars to celebrate their mediocracy.

In the arts, the criticism isn't so polite. You bare your soul to the world, with all expectations of acclaim and you find that the world doesn't feel the same as you do. And it's usually not in the form of "Oh, it's nice." but usually something like "it's crap, where in the blackness of your mind did you dredge up that vision?" When you can handle that sort of criticism, or frank speach, then you're on your way to be able to call yourself an artist.

Heretofore, it has only been in the arts where frank speach has been acceptable. Once the arts become politically correct, will be the death of the arts. We'll be doing pictures of our "heroic leaders" and struggling masses overcoming obstacles of the social system.

Look at Imus, although not a fan, I heard him say a couple words which he obviously learned from the rap vernacular. Wrong? Absolutely. But, we have heard these words thousands of times on the news following the incident. All top ten songs by rap artists have one or all of these words. The difference is, he has sponsors that will feel the heat. Al Sharpton has a constituency that needs to hear that he's doing something, and Jesse Jackson, well, Jesse Jackson, he needs the donations, voluntary or extorted.

The point, at last. Yes, there does need to be civility on the forums, but this form of civility should never stifle frank, and sometimes provocative discussion of our chosen avocation. Yes, the sites do not belong to the contributors, but without the contributors there won't be a site........much like Imus.

PS. To imply that this site is out of control or running on autopilot is ridiculus. The moderator has done an excellent of modifying or deleting some of my posts he knew I would be ashamed of in the morning.

yingyang0 · « **Reply #32 on:** April 12, 2007, 21:46 »

Quote from: ianhlnd on April 12, 2007, 20:29

Look at Imus, although not a fan, I heard him say a couple words which he obviously learned from the rap vernacular. Wrong? Absolutely. But, we have heard these words thousands of times on the news following the incident. All top ten songs by rap artists have one or all of these words. The difference is, he has sponsors that will feel the heat. Al Sharpton has a constituency that needs to hear that he's doing something, and Jesse Jackson, well, Jesse Jackson, he needs the donations, voluntary or extorted.

What rap song(s) are you referring to where they use the term "nappy-headed"? They don't.

The fact is that this wasn't a case of someone exercising their first amendment right to free speech. This was defamatory language (not protected) that has no place in society. What's wrong is wrong. Whether or not Jackson and Sharpton are capitalizing on the situation is irrelevant.

Oh, and the difference between rap and Imus is that Imus was calling specific people "nappy-headed hos."

litifeta · « **Reply #33 on:** April 12, 2007, 22:42 »

Yes I agree with stopping insults. The worst of which (for me) are those which are veiled as condesending little snippets of wisdom but which are in fact insulting attacks on a person's intelligence.

I for one certainly don't need educating about how businesses do and should operate. I have people coming to me every day for advice on billion $ infrastructure projects. For me micro is a way to get better at something that has been a lifelong hobby.

One thing that everyone needs to understand about how to treat people is that you treat others the way you wish to be treated. For instance, if someone decides to treat me like an idiot, I take it that is how they wish to be treated. If someone is rude to me, I take it that they wish me to be rude to them.

Normally I will give people a lot of chances to change their behaviour before reacting, but once I do, they will be left in doubt about where they stand.

I know very little about micro, but have learned some great lessons from the folks here. But as far as business goes, there are a lot of people in this world, who if they want to catch up with me, had better stop crawling and start running.

Oh, and I do have a great sense of humor!

ianhlnd · « **Reply #34 on:** April 12, 2007, 23:54 »

YingYang: What rap song(s) are you referring to where they use the term "nappy-headed"? They don't. Nappy, yes.

Your're right, they don't say "nappy headed" nappy is a coloquil term for "curly" Old Scot or English and was in common usage up until the 50's. It was also common to call someone "gay" that was happy or frivilous.

Common logic, ergo, if then, therefore, the phrase only becomes offensive if used with the tag "ho" That is the word to which I referred.

http://www.Hip Hop Rap Lyrics/50 cent Lyrics/The Realest Niggaz - feat. B.I.G., Eminem Lyrics

another top seller

http://www.Hip Hop Rap Lyrics/50 cent Lyrics/Magic Stick Lyrics

http://www.Hip Hop Rap Lyrics/Nappy Roots Lyrics/Sell It Out Lyrics

Your tag for instance "yingyang" yes, we all know the symbol, but also it was once used colloqually for a male appendage. Should that word be banned because it was once slang and meant something else?

And, as a PS, if a particular group, I guess you're referring to the Rutgers team is the only one offended, Why is everybody else getting in on the action? $$$$ for AS and JJ

Freezingpictures · « **Reply #35 on:** April 13, 2007, 13:56 »

Quote from: sharply_done on April 12, 2007, 14:03

For what it's worth, Professorgb, I'm right there with you.

Quote from: StockManiac on April 12, 2007, 13:18
But whatever we view this site as, I agree that we should try and be polite and respectful to those around us.

Can't help but agree there. There are ways, though, to present potentially inflammatory subjects that you haven't explored. May I suggest this as a beginning?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

The topics entitled "Twelve Ways to Win People to Your Way of Thinking" and "Nine Ways to Change People Without Giving Offense or Arousing Resentment" may be of particular interest to you.

Sharply_Do, there is great wisdom in these points. And with most I whole heartedly agree. If you behave in this way towards people, you really will be successfull I believe. These days people are getting offended so quickly in any way. The thing is, no one behaves perfectly and even if someone acts theoretically "perfectly", people get offend by different worldviews or just misunderstandings.
So the principle "I treat you as you treat me" is doomed to failure to create a peaceful atmosphere. And that applies in all areas in life. And I believe that is why some conflicts will never stop, because the parties feel it is not fair to not pay the other person back.
If we feel being treated as idots by DT, should we treat DT the same way? (By the way I personally do not feel treated as an idiot by DT). I would say no. It won't help anybody at all.
J-E-S-U-S (was changed into jeepers??? after I posted) told us, love your enemy, and he lived it. In him is the greatest power of peace within us and between us and others.
However, does it mean we should not critize and let people trample on us? No way, sometime we openly have to show the other one where he is wrong.
But in a loving and kind way. Treat others as you would like them to treat you. A way to do this is to use some of the ways sharply_do pointed out with his link. Also as the link directs, think about your mistakes and admit them first, before you judge.

Hopefully I have not offended anyone.

Cheers, Jan

yingyang0 · « **Reply #36 on:** April 14, 2007, 12:37 »

Quote from: ianhlnd on April 12, 2007, 23:54

Your tag for instance "yingyang" yes, we all know the symbol, but also it was once used colloqually for a male appendage. Should that word be banned because it was once slang and meant something else?

And, as a PS, if a particular group, I guess you're referring to the Rutgers team is the only one offended, Why is everybody else getting in on the action? $$$$ for AS and JJ

Well first off, only one of those songs that you tried to link too actually contains the worry nappy, and in that one the name of the group is Nappy Roots. No one is actually saying nappy in relation to a person.

Second, where did I say "group" or refer to the Rutgers team. The team members weren't the only ones offended.

Third, are you saying that it is ok if "nappy-headed hos" is used as a colloqual term for black woman? If not, then the analogy to the term yingyang doesn't make sense.

I just don't understand how anyone could be trying to justify or defend such language. This wasn't the artistic critizism that you were earlier trying to compare it to. It was a racist and sexist remark from a "good-old boy".

hospitalera · « **Reply #37 on:** April 25, 2007, 17:25 »

Quote from: PenelopeB on April 12, 2007, 11:35

Maybe it's a sign that we need to "care" more about what and how we say things without losing the freedom to express things that are importants to each of us.

That was the most intelligent comment I have ever read! SY

*Disclaimer: I don't wan't to put down other comments I have previously read, just expressing my appriciation*

ianhlnd · « **Reply #38 on:** April 26, 2007, 23:44 »

Well, YY, I don't know if he's a good old boy or not, I don't know him I just know that some people take offense where no offense is intended or directed. If the basketball team can forgive Imus, why can't other bleeding heart ready to be offended PC sycophants?

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Author Topic: The mood around here lately (Read 31782 times)

Greg Boiarsky

le_cyclope

leaf

admart01

Greg Boiarsky

ianhlnd

Greg Boiarsky

yingyang0

litifeta

ianhlnd

Freezingpictures

yingyang0

hospitalera

ianhlnd

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