pancakes

MicrostockGroup Sponsors

Envato Elements

Author Topic: The Prisoner  (Read 11601 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RAW

« on: December 27, 2017, 17:55 »
0
Prisons in Colorado are using VR to 'teach' prisoners how to act in the real world.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/bjym3w/this-prison-is-using-vr-to-teach-inmates-how-to-live-on-the-outside

They are going to need plenty of stock footage. I would imagine scenes similar to those in A Clockwork Orange.


k_t_g

  • You look marvelous
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2017, 23:33 »
0
I wonder if they get an electric shock as a negative reinforcement?  ;)

RAW

« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 23:52 »
+2
The government controlling the reality of prisoners.
. . . a brave new world.

namussi

« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 00:37 »
+2
The government controlling the reality of prisoners.
. . . a brave new world.

Isn't that part of the point of prisons?


k_t_g

  • You look marvelous
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2017, 00:51 »
+4
The government controlling the reality of prisoners.
. . . a brave new world.

Isn't that part of the point of prisons?

I get what he's saying. This can get out of hand and not just be used in prisons but on other populations of people as well. If you don't like a group of people and or their view points, just use these brain washing techniques. Yes, this stuff can be abused. See how the charter of rights in your country can change due to terrorism. Look at how our freedoms have eroded. Its scary what can happen in the near future.  :(

namussi

« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 01:13 »
0
The government controlling the reality of prisoners.
. . . a brave new world.

Isn't that part of the point of prisons?

I get what he's saying. This can get out of hand and not just be used in prisons but on other populations of people as well. If you don't like a group of people and or their view points, just use these brain washing techniques. Yes, this stuff can be abused. See how the charter of rights in your country can change due to terrorism. Look at how our freedoms have eroded. Its scary what can happen in the near future.  :(

I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.

RAW

« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 10:00 »
+3
I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.

It's not stupid.

We are already running the US prison system on a for profit basis. That's why we have the largest proportion of our population in prisons. More than any country in the world.

What happens when there is only one thing to 'watch' and that is controlled and produced by the government? Or controlled and produced by one private corporation?

« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 10:06 »
+2
Reality is not the one you think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlFiHhN8aew

JimP

« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 15:35 »
+1
I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.

It's not stupid.

We are already running the US prison system on a for profit basis. That's why we have the largest proportion of our population in prisons. More than any country in the world.

What happens when there is only one thing to 'watch' and that is controlled and produced by the government? Or controlled and produced by one private corporation?

You can look at the system upside down and you won't see, if the laws aren't enforced, people won't be in prisons. Some places don't have the space, they don't put people in. Some countries don't need more prisons because the death penalty for crime is often the quick result. Some places you don't get a trial or prison you just become a non-person or disappear. Mexico the prison rates have gone down, because they don't prosecute as many cases.

Top 25 murder rates in the world. US is not on this list. https://list25.com/25-countries-with-the-highest-murder-rates-in-the-world/ 1 in 1000 will be murdered in Honduras. People in prison doesn't mean innocent are in jail, murder rates show where more should be. Honduras 66 people per 100,000 death by gunshot. There aren't more criminals in the US, there is more law enforcement. The law abiding citizens deserve and get protection from the criminals, and you somehow find that's wrong?

Prison doesn't deter crime and doesn't rehabilitate people, the whole system is a farce. Now we house people in the US who can't deal with society, they get free room and board, don't have to be responsible and some actually like prison better and are well adapted to that society, don't want to be out on the street. Hard to understand because we aren't them, but there's a simple comfort to being where they know the rules and can live in that structure. Some people like being in the military I hated it as one of the dumbest work experiences in my life.

namussi

« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 22:05 »
0
I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.

We are already running the US prison system on a for profit basis. That's why we have the largest proportion of our population in prisons. More than any country in the world.



Very little of the US prison system is run for profit. (I think the figures are something like 10% of state prisoners and 20% of federal prisoners.) So I don't think that's the reason.

American voters keep voting for politicians who promise lots of prison sentences ... the longer the better.


« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 09:58 »
0
I really don't see that. The inmates could just have easily watch TV shows about living outside. But because virtual "reality" is involved, suddenly everyone panics? Stupid.

We are already running the US prison system on a for profit basis. That's why we have the largest proportion of our population in prisons. More than any country in the world.



Very little of the US prison system is run for profit. (I think the figures are something like 10% of state prisoners and 20% of federal prisoners.) So I don't think that's the reason.

American voters keep voting for politicians who promise lots of prison sentences ... the longer the better.

You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 13:46 »
+3

namussi

« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2017, 10:22 »
+1

You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.

Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?


Shelma1

« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2017, 16:53 »
+3
"A 2011 report by the American Civil Liberties Union point out that private prisons are more costly, more violent and less accountable than public prisons, and are actually a major contributor to increased mass incarceration. This is most apparent in Louisiana, which has the highest incarceration rate in the world and houses the majority of its inmates in for-profit facilities."

namussi

« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2017, 21:25 »
+1
"A 2011 report by the American Civil Liberties Union point out that private prisons are more costly, more violent and less accountable than public prisons, and are actually a major contributor to increased mass incarceration. This is most apparent in Louisiana, which has the highest incarceration rate in the world and houses the majority of its inmates in for-profit facilities."

That may well be right. But the numbers don't explain why there are so many prisoners in the United States, as well over three-fourths of them are in federal/state institutions.

« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2017, 03:20 »
+2
While locking people up fulfills a very understandable need for revenge and punishment it is a very poor method of reducing crime...but we live in times where rational thinking are er Trumped by emotion and slogans

« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2017, 11:24 »
+2

You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.

Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?

US is not far from the definition of a police state.
People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay insanely huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.
There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.
Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan.

So much for the "land of the free"!
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 11:36 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2017, 11:57 »
0

You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.

Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?

US is not far from the definition of a police state.
People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.
There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.
Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan.

So much for the "land of the free"!

Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix.

Young black males without a high school diploma were more likely to be in prison or jail (37 percent) on any given day in 2008 than to be working (26 percent). People without jobs and without education, end up suffering the most. I think we need to fix the education system and help these people get out of poverty and the slums. First step would be schools that teach instead of warehousing kids. Then stop the liberals from passing everyone on and out, as long as they feel good about themselves, and start helping kids learn something.

Less Latinos are in jail then blacks because the illegals just get send back or deported. Don't blame crime on race, or blame the system for arresting criminals, that's racist as all hell. Blame the system that doesn't allow equal opportunity for school and jobs. When blacks are in gangs, have more out of wedlock children, or filling prisons, do say, oh its just part of their culture the white people don't understand.

If we are all the same, we all need to live together and behave the same with the same laws. There's no free pass for cultural differences, one nation. Stop dividing and start joining together. There are many other minorities other than blacks and latinos, they don't end up in prisons and the poorest areas, with high risk neighborhoods and gangs. Why is that? Maybe there is a cultural difference and some groups aren't joining into the system.

Why do the California colleges have set quotas for the number of Asians allowed into a college class, racial discrimination, but have to reserve spots for other minorities, to make sure those less qualified minorities can get into school. Cultural? You bet your ass. If we all get what we earn based on qualifications, work and skills, why do some have to get special treatment to be equal?

Pretty much everyone here doesn't like others who get accused of better treatment in the search, a better % rate, more sales because the agency might be favoring them. Then on the forum you defend the same discrimination in the culture you live in? That's strange.

People are in jail because they commit crimes and the system prosecutes. There's no bias or law and order agenda that says we need more people in prisons. We need less. My exception to this is any crime committed with a gun should have a mandatory sentence, but you would probably argue that too many people went to prison for that, at the same time crying about gun crimes? Make up your mind.

I say better education will make for better opportunities and in the long term less young people in jail because they are living in poverty and poor conditions. With education and skills they can bring themselves out of that cycle. Prisons don't rehabilitate anyone or if they do, it's a small number.

If you don't want people in prison, how would you deal with crime? That's my question?

« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2017, 13:50 »
0
In the UK we had a political sound bite that actually made sense "Tough on crime Tough on the causes of crime"

« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2017, 14:35 »
0

You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.

Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?

US is not far from the definition of a police state.
People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.
There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.
Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan.

So much for the "land of the free"!

Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix.
...

So the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is anarchy, in your world?
No, my friend, the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is a "normal" incarceration rate.
All civilised communities rely on laws for cooperation. However, jailing for minor offenses is a police state characteristic.

And, for your information, people are going to jail for being poor and unable to pay their debts. Yeah, not paying debts is a crime, but do we really have to fill our prisons with such "criminals"?

Read these examples among many other:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/opinion/sunday/is-it-a-crime-to-be-poor.html

"If you dont believe me, come with me to the county jail in Tulsa. On the day I visited, 23 people were incarcerated for failure to pay government fines and fees, including one woman imprisoned because she couldnt pay a fine for lacking a license plate."

And here is a recent article about the re-enforcement of these laws: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/opinion/sessions-says-to-courts-go-ahead-jail-people-because-theyre-poor.html

"A veteran battling homelessness in Michigan lost his job when a judge jailed him for bringing only $25 rather than the required $50 first payment to court."

It reminds me the story of Jean Valjean in Les Misrables!

And don't tell me these are "fake news" from "failing NYTimes", please, because your other "arguments" sound very similar to those coming from some well known small tweeting hands.

If you have time and want to smile at this serious matter, watch this: https://youtu.be/0UjpmT5noto
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 16:45 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2018, 10:56 »
0

You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.

Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?

US is not far from the definition of a police state.
People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.
There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.
Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan.

So much for the "land of the free"!

Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix.
...

So the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is anarchy, in your world?
No, my friend, the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is a "normal" incarceration rate.
All civilised communities rely on laws for cooperation. However, jailing for minor offenses is a police state characteristic.

And, for your information, people are going to jail for being poor and unable to pay their debts. Yeah, not paying debts is a crime, but do we really have to fill our prisons with such "criminals"?

Read these examples among many other:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/opinion/sunday/is-it-a-crime-to-be-poor.html

"If you dont believe me, come with me to the county jail in Tulsa. On the day I visited, 23 people were incarcerated for failure to pay government fines and fees, including one woman imprisoned because she couldnt pay a fine for lacking a license plate."

And here is a recent article about the re-enforcement of these laws: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/opinion/sessions-says-to-courts-go-ahead-jail-people-because-theyre-poor.html

"A veteran battling homelessness in Michigan lost his job when a judge jailed him for bringing only $25 rather than the required $50 first payment to court."

It reminds me the story of Jean Valjean in Les Misrables!

And don't tell me these are "fake news" from "failing NYTimes", please, because your other "arguments" sound very similar to those coming from some well known small tweeting hands.

If you have time and want to smile at this serious matter, watch this: https://youtu.be/0UjpmT5noto

You didn't answer, but your answer is anarchy. No punishment, do what anyone wants. No laws if the person is poor?

What is you alternative. Let people with no license plates drive. Let people with no registration or insurance drive? Most of these sad stories of how someone was imprisoned for not paying a fine will be backed by this person having a long history of illegal activity, bad checks, shoplifting, breaking laws and not paying any fines.
 
Don't try to make the criminals look like the victims. How about the people they stole from and the stores that got bad checks. How about their rights?

What is your answer? Calling the US a police state is not a solution it's just shouting. What's the solution?

« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2018, 12:03 »
+1

You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.

Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?

US is not far from the definition of a police state.
People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.
There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.
Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan.

So much for the "land of the free"!

Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix.
...

So the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is anarchy, in your world?
No, my friend, the alternative to the highest incarceration rate in the world is a "normal" incarceration rate.
All civilised communities rely on laws for cooperation. However, jailing for minor offenses is a police state characteristic.

And, for your information, people are going to jail for being poor and unable to pay their debts. Yeah, not paying debts is a crime, but do we really have to fill our prisons with such "criminals"?

Read these examples among many other:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/opinion/sunday/is-it-a-crime-to-be-poor.html

"If you dont believe me, come with me to the county jail in Tulsa. On the day I visited, 23 people were incarcerated for failure to pay government fines and fees, including one woman imprisoned because she couldnt pay a fine for lacking a license plate."

And here is a recent article about the re-enforcement of these laws: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/opinion/sessions-says-to-courts-go-ahead-jail-people-because-theyre-poor.html

"A veteran battling homelessness in Michigan lost his job when a judge jailed him for bringing only $25 rather than the required $50 first payment to court."

It reminds me the story of Jean Valjean in Les Misrables!

And don't tell me these are "fake news" from "failing NYTimes", please, because your other "arguments" sound very similar to those coming from some well known small tweeting hands.

If you have time and want to smile at this serious matter, watch this: https://youtu.be/0UjpmT5noto

You didn't answer, but your answer is anarchy. No punishment, do what anyone wants. No laws if the person is poor?

What is you alternative. Let people with no license plates drive. Let people with no registration or insurance drive? Most of these sad stories of how someone was imprisoned for not paying a fine will be backed by this person having a long history of illegal activity, bad checks, shoplifting, breaking laws and not paying any fines.
 
Don't try to make the criminals look like the victims. How about the people they stole from and the stores that got bad checks. How about their rights?

What is your answer? Calling the US a police state is not a solution it's just shouting. What's the solution?

I answered. You didn't read. I said "normal" incarceration rate. Not anarchy. Like in any civilised country. Not a medieval system ruled by the likes of Javert who sends hungry people to 19 years of prison for stealing a loaf of bread. There is punishment and there is punishment.
I refuse to believe that Americans are more criminal than any other civilised nation. It's not the people. It is the virtual police state they live in.
A system with excessive punishments and excessive fines for minor offences. A system built by populist politicians who play the "tough on crime" game to get elected.
Ask yourself why civilised countries like Holland ran out if prisoners, transforming prisons in hotels? There are many ways to make people behave in a society, prison is not the only answer.

JimP

« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2018, 20:11 »
0
It really sucks to live here in the police state of the US.https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/we-loot-or-we-die-of-hunger-food-shortages-fuel-unrest-in-venezuela/ar-AAuXnYt
On the night of 9 January, for example, a hungry mob took just 30 minutes to pick clean a grocery store in the eastern city of Puerto Ordaz. By the time owner Luis Felipe Anatael arrived at the bodega hed opened five months earlier, the looters had hauled away everything from cold cuts to ketchup to the cash registers.

Shelma1

« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2018, 06:40 »
+3

You mean like we actually get what was promised or voted for? I haven't seen anyone running on law and order where I live, longer jail sentences or more convictions. Do you make this up of do you live in the American Southwest, where crime, illegals and stupid politicians are rampant? California the land of fruits and nuts.

Assume I'm wrong then: what do you think explains that the US has five per cent of the world's population, and 25% of the world's prisoners?

US is not far from the definition of a police state.
People go to prison for being poor and unable to pay stupidly huge fines, initiating a vicious poverty circle.
There is also the "war" on drugs, one of the main reasons for unnecessary incarceration, but still a successful way for backward minded politicians to get elected.
Police has way too much power in US. It often looks like an occupation army. But "law and order" is another election winning slogan.

So much for the "land of the free"!

Right we should do nothing about people who rob and mug others for drug money. People who are poor might be going to jail for committing crimes, not for being poor. You may like anarchy until you get beat up on the street by someone who needs a few bucks for a fix.

Young black males without a high school diploma were more likely to be in prison or jail (37 percent) on any given day in 2008 than to be working (26 percent). People without jobs and without education, end up suffering the most. I think we need to fix the education system and help these people get out of poverty and the slums. First step would be schools that teach instead of warehousing kids. Then stop the liberals from passing everyone on and out, as long as they feel good about themselves, and start helping kids learn something.

Less Latinos are in jail then blacks because the illegals just get send back or deported. Don't blame crime on race, or blame the system for arresting criminals, that's racist as all hell. Blame the system that doesn't allow equal opportunity for school and jobs. When blacks are in gangs, have more out of wedlock children, or filling prisons, do say, oh its just part of their culture the white people don't understand.

If we are all the same, we all need to live together and behave the same with the same laws. There's no free pass for cultural differences, one nation. Stop dividing and start joining together. There are many other minorities other than blacks and latinos, they don't end up in prisons and the poorest areas, with high risk neighborhoods and gangs. Why is that? Maybe there is a cultural difference and some groups aren't joining into the system.

Why do the California colleges have set quotas for the number of Asians allowed into a college class, racial discrimination, but have to reserve spots for other minorities, to make sure those less qualified minorities can get into school. Cultural? You bet your ass. If we all get what we earn based on qualifications, work and skills, why do some have to get special treatment to be equal?

Pretty much everyone here doesn't like others who get accused of better treatment in the search, a better % rate, more sales because the agency might be favoring them. Then on the forum you defend the same discrimination in the culture you live in? That's strange.

People are in jail because they commit crimes and the system prosecutes. There's no bias or law and order agenda that says we need more people in prisons. We need less. My exception to this is any crime committed with a gun should have a mandatory sentence, but you would probably argue that too many people went to prison for that, at the same time crying about gun crimes? Make up your mind.

I say better education will make for better opportunities and in the long term less young people in jail because they are living in poverty and poor conditions. With education and skills they can bring themselves out of that cycle. Prisons don't rehabilitate anyone or if they do, it's a small number.

If you don't want people in prison, how would you deal with crime? That's my question?

Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).

When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 10:22 by Shelma1 »

RAW

« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2018, 10:32 »
+1
Well said Shelma1

« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2018, 10:49 »
0
Back to the OP.  I don't know why you would need VR to do it, but teaching people who have been locked up for a long time since their teens how to function in the modern world seems like a good idea to me.

« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2018, 11:02 »
+2
Quote from: Shelma1
Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).

When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.

Valid points Shelma, but you make it sound like a conspiracy.
I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.
Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.
Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it. As seen in the stories I provided links for, there are cases where fines are significantly higher, also for minor offences. Failure to pay those fines can lead to jail.
Maybe the reasons behind the "tough on crime" expectations for our politicians derive from the general feel of not being safe Americans have. Maybe it is linked to the wide availability of guns, maybe it is linked to the exacerbated discourse related to terrorism, etc.
So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence of deeper flaws in our system.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 13:09 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2018, 12:30 »
+1
I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.
Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.
Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it....
So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence deeper flaws in our system.

I think you've nailed it there.  As we learned after the Ferguson fiasco, a large part of the (mostly minority) population there was locked up for failure to pay the fines from previous offences.  While incarcerated, you can't go to work to earn the money to pay the fines, which means more fines for failure to pay the previous fines and a never-ending cycle that serves nobody except parasitic governments that obtain a significant proportion of their funding from such sources.  Here is another article that sums up many of the issues (https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/incomejails.html) to augment the ones previously provided by ZT.

I had a similar experience to ZT.  I got a speeding ticket while driving home from work.  I had just returned on an overnight flight after a 10-day trip to Ecuador and went into the office to do my travel paperwork.  Due to multiple construction projects, my only way home was through a sort of industrial area near a university.  It was 4:45 PM on a Friday afternoon and I got nailed for going 33 in a 20-mph zone.  The only reason the limit was that low I assume was because during the day there can be a lot of trucks in that area, but it is a good road, on a clear day with perfect visibility, no pedestrians and no traffic.  Anywhere else the speed limit would have been 45 at least. And it was downhill.   I'd never had a speeding ticket or any other other interaction with law enforcement before.  Instead of giving me a warning, he gives me a ticket.  Very annoying.  I went to court to fight it, and really out of curiosity to see how the system works.  The judge listened to my arguments and took them "under advisement".  When I received the decision, he had decided to not put any points on my license, but I still had to pay the fine, which was $5 higher than if I had just payed it and not gone to court.  Then I realized that the whole point was not justice, or safety or protecting the public, it was all about the money.  Fortunately, for me the fine was not a problem, plus I was able to take a couple of nice stock photos while taking pictures to bolster the case so eventually earned back most of it, but for someone with no money in the bank a $130 fine for a minor offense that everyone agreed posed no threat to anybody could land them in jail.  I lost a lot of respect for law enforcement through that process.

Everybody agrees that criminals should be prosecuted and locked away, but throwing people in jail for very minor, nonviolent offences or for failure to pay fines serves no useful purpose.  I will say that while hanging out for traffic court I noticed that our local judge tried to work with people who couldn't pay rather than tossing them in jail, but I think he is the exception rather than the rule.

« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 12:42 »
+1
Not to mention that in many states you loose, for the rest of your life, the right to vote if convicted of a felony. Its just another method to replace the Jim Crow Laws after the Civil Rights Act.  It has been proven that Black Americans receive harder penalties then whites.

Americans don't have a Right to vote in Elections, unlike most countries.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 12:47 by etienjones »

« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2018, 22:19 »
0
Back to the OP.  I don't know why you would need VR to do it, but teaching people who have been locked up for a long time since their teens how to function in the modern world seems like a good idea to me.

If it worked that would be good. I'm not sure that people change much after a life of being criminals living a way of life and belonging to a segment of the population that claims individual culture over society norms.

The 15th Amendment to the Constitution granted African American men the right to vote by declaring that the right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. Although ratified on February 3, 1870, the promise of the 15th Amendment would not be fully realized for almost a century. Through the use of poll taxes, literacy tests and other means, Southern states were able to effectively disenfranchise African Americans.

Southern States means Democrats. They opposed integration, education, bussing to equal schools, voting rights and everything the Liberals claim they stand for. That's the big lie. Democrats favor control through welfare to gain votes. They have played this lie to the limit.

"... The higher the education level, the more likely they are to vote Democratic," Democrats want to tell us how they know better and are more educated.

Facts, Government benefits, and the percentages of those who voted Republican or Democrat:

    Public Housing - 81% D vs 12% R
    Medicaid - 74% D vs 16% R
    Food Stamps - 67% D vs 20% R
    Unemployment Compensation - 64% D vs 25% R
    Welfare/Public Assistance - 63% D vs 22% R

And we wonder why Democrats are trying to continually increase the scope of government programs. More votes.

Why are the Democrats against free choice for school? They want to keep their control and the public schools that keep people down, instead of allowing charter schools and freedom of choice for parents of minorities.

JimP

« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2018, 17:52 »
0
Not to mention that in many states you loose, for the rest of your life, the right to vote if convicted of a felony. Its just another method to replace the Jim Crow Laws after the Civil Rights Act.  It has been proven that Black Americans receive harder penalties then whites.

Americans don't have a Right to vote in Elections, unlike most countries.


We don't? What makes you think that? Black Americans got the right to vote when the Republicans passed the 15th Amendment. It was ratified on February 3, 1870 and was the 3rd of the Reconstruction amendments. Many uninformed people think the Voting Rights Act of 1965, that was filibustered by the Democrats, gave blacks the right to vote. Notice who was behind these rights acts, the Republicans. Indians got the right to vote in 1924 when they were declared citizens. Kind of strange since they were here first. Only citizens may vote in an election for federal office.

This Liberal Judge in CA shouldn't have the right to vote, he's an idiot. http://www.ibtimes.com/who-aaron-persky-judge-brock-turner-sexual-assault-case-could-be-removed-bench-2644774

Convicted felons should lose their right to vote, it's a right for honest law abiding citizens.

« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2018, 03:27 »
+1
Not according to the Supreme Court. In Bush v. Gore (2000), the Court ruled that [t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.

As a result, voting is not a right, but a privilege granted or withheld at the discretion of local and state governments. 

In its 2000 ruling, Alexander v Mineta, the Court decided the 600,000 or so (mostly black) residents of Washington D.C. have no legal recourse for their complete lack of voting representation in Congress The Court affirmed the district courts interpretation that our Constitution does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, but rather the right of all qualified citizens to vote. And its state legislatures that wield the power to decide who is qualified.

Shelma1

« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2018, 09:53 »
+2
Quote from: Shelma1
Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).

When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.

Valid points Shelma, but you make it sound like a conspiracy.
I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.
Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.
Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it. As seen in the stories I provided links for, there are cases where fines are significantly higher, also for minor offences. Failure to pay those fines can lead to jail.
Maybe the reasons behind the "tough on crime" expectations for our politicians derive from the general feel of not being safe Americans have. Maybe it is linked to the wide availability of guns, maybe it is linked to the exacerbated discourse related to terrorism, etc.
So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence of deeper flaws in our system.

I used to feel that way. Then I did some reading and found it actually is a conspiracy, unfortunately. The U.S. government has absolutely been involved in efforts over the centuries to purposely keep black people from being properly educated; has given only white G.I.s loans and access to decent housing after they return from war; has crafted laws and longer prison sentences that target specific forms of drugs (crack cocaine rather than powdered, for example, because blacks used more crack and whites more powder); has redlined housing districts to exclude blacks from decent neighborhoods, basically forcing them into ghettos where they are surrounded by crime and receive sub par education.

Studies have consistently shown that blacks (and women) receive worse health care than white men. Black people are arrested more often than white people for drug offenses, even though whites are more likely to use drugs. They receive longer prison terms for the same crimes. They're shot to death by police for all kinds of nonsense. Banks purposely charge them outlandish fees while giving white people free banking. Basically, the white establishment does everything it can to keep black people down. It's purposeful, 100%.

« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2018, 11:19 »
+1
Quote from: Shelma1
Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).

When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.

Valid points Shelma, but you make it sound like a conspiracy.
I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.
Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.
Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it. As seen in the stories I provided links for, there are cases where fines are significantly higher, also for minor offences. Failure to pay those fines can lead to jail.
Maybe the reasons behind the "tough on crime" expectations for our politicians derive from the general feel of not being safe Americans have. Maybe it is linked to the wide availability of guns, maybe it is linked to the exacerbated discourse related to terrorism, etc.
So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence of deeper flaws in our system.

I used to feel that way. Then I did some reading and found it actually is a conspiracy, unfortunately. The U.S. government has absolutely been involved in efforts over the centuries to purposely keep black people from being properly educated; has given only white G.I.s loans and access to decent housing after they return from war; has crafted laws and longer prison sentences that target specific forms of drugs (crack cocaine rather than powdered, for example, because blacks used more crack and whites more powder); has redlined housing districts to exclude blacks from decent neighborhoods, basically forcing them into ghettos where they are surrounded by crime and receive sub par education.

Studies have consistently shown that blacks (and women) receive worse health care than white men. Black people are arrested more often than white people for drug offenses, even though whites are more likely to use drugs. They receive longer prison terms for the same crimes. They're shot to death by police for all kinds of nonsense. Banks purposely charge them outlandish fees while giving white people free banking. Basically, the white establishment does everything it can to keep black people down. It's purposeful, 100%.

I don't deny the existence of racism in America. It is very much present, no doubt about this. But I am very certain that racism is present in many other countries, where it is not acknowledged. Anti-Gypsy racism in Eastern Europe comes to mind, as an example. Islamophobia (although this is not racism, in theory) is pretty much present throughout Western Europe and beyond.
Some might not even realise the level of the racism in their countries, because they never had the chance to meet and interact with people of a different race.

Yet, most of this countries point fingers towards American racism, a lot being oblivious to what's going on under their nose. This is because racism in America is constantly and openly debated, in the news, in politics, etc.

Having said that, I rather believe that we deal with a vicious circle, where poverty leads to more poverty, because of a broken system. A system where we allow government too much power, power to setup stupid, arbitrary laws, excessive fines and a plethora of economical barriers impacting mainly the poor, preventing them to express their true potential and to grow out of poverty.



« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2018, 14:18 »
+1
This is strange and odd. London passes New York city in murders? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/london-murder-rate-overtakes-new-york-for-first-time-ever-after-spate-of-fatal-stabbings-and-shootings/ar-AAvlxcY?OCID=ansmsnnews11 and because of stabbings. Not that either should brag when 21 or 22 people just died needlessly.

namussi

« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2018, 01:24 »
+1
This is strange and odd. London passes New York city in murders? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/london-murder-rate-overtakes-new-york-for-first-time-ever-after-spate-of-fatal-stabbings-and-shootings/ar-AAvlxcY?OCID=ansmsnnews11 and because of stabbings. Not that either should brag when 21 or 22 people just died needlessly.

If only British people were allowed to carry handguns, then there would be far fewer murders.

« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2018, 16:57 »
0
This is strange and odd. London passes New York city in murders? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/london-murder-rate-overtakes-new-york-for-first-time-ever-after-spate-of-fatal-stabbings-and-shootings/ar-AAvlxcY?OCID=ansmsnnews11 and because of stabbings. Not that either should brag when 21 or 22 people just died needlessly.

If only British people were allowed to carry handguns, then there would be far fewer murders.

I know you are pointing at the absurd, but if they had guns in the UK the only part that would change would be choice of weapons. The problem is gangs, violence and people. Take away the knife and the attacks with willow wood bats would increase.

« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2018, 22:40 »
0
Quote from: Shelma1
Cultural differences my behind. Black people were forced here (the U.S.) as slaves and have been purposely under educated and locked up in for profit prisons for minor offenses because if slavery can't be legal, then you can at least make laws to target them pretty specifically, red line districts to keep them from living in better neighborhoods with better schools, and keep as many as possible locked up and out of the workforce and the voting booths (where they'd vote for liberals).

When you say "we," who are you referring to, exactly? You write as if you live in the U.S., but you actually live in Canada, a country with a much, much lower incarceration rate.

Valid points Shelma, but you make it sound like a conspiracy.
I don't think that the system has been purposely designed to oppress minorities.
Instead, the majority wants politicians to be "tough on crime" and the consequence is a system with outrageous fines and prison sentences for minor offences.
Personally, I had to pay $85 for running in the park after sunset. It's not an issue for me, but people close to the poverty line might have real trouble paying it. As seen in the stories I provided links for, there are cases where fines are significantly higher, also for minor offences. Failure to pay those fines can lead to jail.
Maybe the reasons behind the "tough on crime" expectations for our politicians derive from the general feel of not being safe Americans have. Maybe it is linked to the wide availability of guns, maybe it is linked to the exacerbated discourse related to terrorism, etc.
So it is not really a conspiracy, but rather a logical consequence of deeper flaws in our system.

I used to feel that way. Then I did some reading and found it actually is a conspiracy, unfortunately. The U.S. government has absolutely been involved in efforts over the centuries to purposely keep black people from being properly educated; has given only white G.I.s loans and access to decent housing after they return from war; has crafted laws and longer prison sentences that target specific forms of drugs (crack cocaine rather than powdered, for example, because blacks used more crack and whites more powder); has redlined housing districts to exclude blacks from decent neighborhoods, basically forcing them into ghettos where they are surrounded by crime and receive sub par education.

Studies have consistently shown that blacks (and women) receive worse health care than white men. Black people are arrested more often than white people for drug offenses, even though whites are more likely to use drugs. They receive longer prison terms for the same crimes. They're shot to death by police for all kinds of nonsense. Banks purposely charge them outlandish fees while giving white people free banking. Basically, the white establishment does everything it can to keep black people down. It's purposeful, 100%.

I don't deny the existence of racism in America. It is very much present, no doubt about this. But I am very certain that racism is present in many other countries, where it is not acknowledged. Anti-Gypsy racism in Eastern Europe comes to mind, as an example. Islamophobia (although this is not racism, in theory) is pretty much present throughout Western Europe and beyond.
Some might not even realise the level of the racism in their countries, because they never had the chance to meet and interact with people of a different race.

Yet, most of this countries point fingers towards American racism, a lot being oblivious to what's going on under their nose. This is because racism in America is constantly and openly debated, in the news, in politics, etc.

Having said that, I rather believe that we deal with a vicious circle, where poverty leads to more poverty, because of a broken system. A system where we allow government too much power, power to setup stupid, arbitrary laws, excessive fines and a plethora of economical barriers impacting mainly the poor, preventing them to express their true potential and to grow out of poverty.

I wish you two were in office rather than the ignorant bozos we have instead.

Envato ElementsMicrostock Insider

 

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors

Envato Elements