Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 142605 times)

Zero Talent · « **Reply #1125 on:** August 17, 2023, 19:26 »

Quote from: SVH on August 17, 2023, 15:01

Quote from: Zero Talent on August 17, 2023, 14:17
Yes, it's completely the other way around, if you paid any attention for the past 2 years.

russia is waging a real war, not a cold one.
Go back a little further Zero.

A little further back when soviet russia colonised half of Europe?
Same difference!

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1126 on:** August 18, 2023, 02:20 »

Quote from: Annie on August 17, 2023, 17:04

Quote from: SVH on August 17, 2023, 15:42
Quote from: stoker2014 on August 17, 2023, 15:21
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/
You are so a mental case that it's almost funny. Glad for you that you have your friend Zero backing you all the time. But djeezz how do you come up with this stuff?

Yes. We went from 'making precursor chemicals' to 'killing people' in one big leap.

But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.

People have to be careful of taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5, because this is how fake conspiracies mislead others and cause a lot of problems.

I am not defending China, but we've missed an important step and that is the illicit drugs are made by Mexican drug cartels.

You need to re-read those two articles to which I gave links. China sends lethal drugs to America not only through Mexico, but also by regular mail, for example. And Mexico doesn't produce these deadly drugs, it helps China ship them to the US. It's like saying that Mexico is to blame for everything, although China produces drugs.
I see a lot of things not being said in the world media to people.

Lizard · « **Reply #1127 on:** August 18, 2023, 06:51 »

The Chinese have done it my friend!

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1128 on:** August 18, 2023, 08:03 »

Quote from: Annie on August 17, 2023, 17:04

But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.

This is a huge mistake of democratic countries. In 1970, there was no need to conclude trade agreements with communist and totalitarian China. There was no need to invest in China and place almost all production there. It's like placing production and investments in Russia. You shouldn't have listened to Kissinger. You don't have to listen to him now.
Democracy eventually raised a monster that claims world hegemony and kills the citizens of democratic countries. Yes, everyone loves cheap labor in China, where people work for a bowl of rice. But the time has come for retribution for a short-sighted policy, and therefore the third world war is underway.
More people die from Chinese drugs than the United States has lost people in all wars.

Annie2022 · « **Reply #1129 on:** August 18, 2023, 11:04 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 18, 2023, 02:20

Quote from: Annie on August 17, 2023, 17:04
Quote from: SVH on August 17, 2023, 15:42
Quote from: stoker2014 on August 17, 2023, 15:21
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/
You are so a mental case that it's almost funny. Glad for you that you have your friend Zero backing you all the time. But djeezz how do you come up with this stuff?

Yes. We went from 'making precursor chemicals' to 'killing people' in one big leap.

But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.

People have to be careful of taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5, because this is how fake conspiracies mislead others and cause a lot of problems.

I am not defending China, but we've missed an important step and that is the illicit drugs are made by Mexican drug cartels.
You need to re-read those two articles to which I gave links. China sends lethal drugs to America not only through Mexico, but also by regular mail, for example. And Mexico doesn't produce these deadly drugs, it helps China ship them to the US. It's like saying that Mexico is to blame for everything, although China produces drugs.
I see a lot of things not being said in the world media to people.

No, you need to re-read those articles, Stoker.

From the first paragraph of the Trone link:

U.S. authorities say that China remains the primary source of the precursor chemicals, which are then processed and manufactured into synthetic opioids by Mexican drug cartels to bring into the United States.

Do you know what precursor chemicals are, Stoke?

From wiki:

Drug precursors, also referred to as precursor chemicals or simply precursors, are substances which are known to be used in the illegal manufacture of illicit drugs. Most precursors also have legitimate commercial uses and are legally used in a wide variety of industrial processes and consumer products, such as medicines, flavourings, and fragrances.[1]

International regulators of precursor chemicals consider it necessary to recognise and protect the legal trade of these chemicals, while at the same time preventing their diversion from such trade for use in the illegal manufacture of narcotic drugs and psychoactive substances. For example, phenylacetic acid is used legally in the production of penicillin, flavourings, perfume, and cleaning solutions, but it can also be used in the illegal manufacture of amphetamines and methamphetamine.[/b]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precursor_chemicals

The problem is multi-fold, and coming from lots of sources. A link from your Washington Post article also explains how they are coming from US pharmaceutical companies and internet pharmacies (as an example):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-drugs-intended-for-patients-ended-up-in-the-hands-of-illegal-users-no-one-was-doing-their-job/2016/10/22/10e79396-30a7-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_39

The overall problem is very complex, and there are some illegal dealings coming from China, but its only a smaller part of the whole story, and not from China as a whole.

What I object to is your statement, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs, because it is wrong or exaggerated on many levels.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1130 on:** August 18, 2023, 13:14 »

Quote from: Annie on August 18, 2023, 11:04

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 18, 2023, 02:20
Quote from: Annie on August 17, 2023, 17:04
Quote from: SVH on August 17, 2023, 15:42
Quote from: stoker2014 on August 17, 2023, 15:21
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/
You are so a mental case that it's almost funny. Glad for you that you have your friend Zero backing you all the time. But djeezz how do you come up with this stuff?

Yes. We went from 'making precursor chemicals' to 'killing people' in one big leap.

But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.

People have to be careful of taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5, because this is how fake conspiracies mislead others and cause a lot of problems.

I am not defending China, but we've missed an important step and that is the illicit drugs are made by Mexican drug cartels.
You need to re-read those two articles to which I gave links. China sends lethal drugs to America not only through Mexico, but also by regular mail, for example. And Mexico doesn't produce these deadly drugs, it helps China ship them to the US. It's like saying that Mexico is to blame for everything, although China produces drugs.
I see a lot of things not being said in the world media to people.

No, you need to re-read those articles, Stoker.

From the first paragraph of the Trone link:

U.S. authorities say that China remains the primary source of the precursor chemicals, which are then processed and manufactured into synthetic opioids by Mexican drug cartels to bring into the United States.

Do you know what precursor chemicals are, Stoke?

Let's continue. You are mixing everything together. I have not yet written about how lethal drugs are distributed inside the United States and how they are transferred to people. You do understand that there are lethal drugs from which people die, and there are non-lethal drugs that rarely die from.
I originally wrote about a lethal weapon called Fentanyl. Fentanyl is a precursor chemicals. It is clear that Fentanyl is not sold to people, it is mixed with other non-lethal drugs.
I quote the original text again: "99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China".

What's not clear? This is a war, the third world war. Fentanyl is a weapon that kills hundreds of thousands of citizens of democratic countries a year (figures are underestimated).

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #1131 on:** August 18, 2023, 15:20 »

I don't even begin to understand this fentanyl diuscussion.
Fentanyl is at first a medical drug that is used as an artificial opioid for pain treatment and anesthesia. The active ingredient itself is not lethal, but the overdose. The same is true for barbiturates, alcohol, etc.

The problem in the US is homemade and not a planned Chinese attack on all democracies.

In 1996, Purdue Pharma introduced Oxycontin to the market and, through lobbying and aggressive advertising, succeeded in touting the prescription painkiller as highly effective but hardly addictive. As a result, American doctors prescribed the drug even for only minor pain, such as toothache.

A large number of patients thus became dependent on oxycodone and, due to a lack of health insurance, also suffered financial hardship. After a market had initially emerged in which doctors willingly prescribed Oxycontin in return for a "donation", and even pain clinics prescribed the drug excessively, a black market then also emerged with illegally produced Oxycodone.

The whole story is the worst example of pharmaceutical lobbying in the history of medicine.

Many addicts switched then to the less expensive opiate heroin and, in the meantime, to fentanyl.

Mexican drug cartels have quickly recognized the gap in the market and are producing drugs containing fentanyl with the help of cheap raw materials from China. It is obvious that China is not entirely unhappy with this situation - for example, China terminated its cooperation with the USA in the field of drug control after Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan.

In my view, all this has nothing to do with your dramatic description of a third world war scenario.

The newspaper articles you linked are incomplete and, as always, were chosen to support your personal view - without being able to judge the content for yourself or even having a glimmer of an idea about the subject.

I myself regularly prescribe fentanyl, which is still made from Chinese raw materials. As far as I can tell, patients don't keel over in rows. It is just a question of how and with what kind of intent the "evil" Chinese raw materials are processed.

However, I agree that we should separate ourselves from Chinese dependence.

Wilm · « **Reply #1132 on:** August 18, 2023, 16:26 »

Quote from: RalfLiebhold on August 18, 2023, 15:20

However, I agree that we should separate ourselves from Chinese dependence.

I will not get involved in this drug discussion because I lack facts and background knowledge.

But as far as the medical drug supply is concerned, I agree with you one hundred percent! We have to get away from addictions. And not only in the pharmaceutical sector, but in an infinite number of other areas as well!

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1133 on:** August 19, 2023, 02:25 »

RalfLiebhold, I didn't know you were a certified doctor. Newspaper articles do not ban the use of Fentanyl in medicine.
Do you think the Washington Post is a tabloid newspaper? The press writes about daily mass deaths from Fentanyl.

Cause of death: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/dea-fentanyl-failure/?itid=mc_magnet-opioids_inline_collection_2

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/

And as you yourself wrote, China stopped cooperating to fight fentanyl smuggling. So China considers fentanyl as its weapon against the USA and not only.

and there are a lot of such articles in the Washington Post. I also read that there are thousands of laboratories in China that produce this fentanyl.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1134 on:** August 19, 2023, 02:42 »

Not to mention that the coronavirus was created in China, after which a lot of people died in the US and the EU. Perhaps this is how China planned to use this virus, because totalitarian and fascist countries do not feel sorry for their people. Or maybe China planned to release the coronavirus in the US and the EU with less losses for China. But in fact, many people in the US and the EU were killed by the coronovirus and the economies of democratic countries suffered huge losses. And immediately after that, Russia began the active phase of the war. These are not coincidences! This is war.

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #1135 on:** August 19, 2023, 05:49 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 19, 2023, 02:25

RalfLiebhold, I didn't know you were a certified doctor. Newspaper articles do not ban the use of Fentanyl in medicine.
Do you think the Washington Post is a tabloid newspaper? The press writes about daily mass deaths from Fentanyl.

Cause of death: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/dea-fentanyl-failure/?itid=mc_magnet-opioids_inline_collection_2

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/

And as you yourself wrote, China stopped cooperating to fight fentanyl smuggling. So China considers fentanyl as its weapon against the USA and not only.

and there are a lot of such articles in the Washington Post. I also read that there are thousands of laboratories in China that produce this fentanyl.

I had the feeling that the active ingredient fentanyl was being denounced here in principle and wanted primarily to explain the difference between medical use and drug abuse.

The interesting question is why there is this increasing drug problem in the USA, with fentanyl at the center of it.
The sole argument of cheap availability and then finding the culprit in China seems to me to be a bit short-sighted.
But for this discussion I really lack the necessary background knowledge.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1136 on:** August 19, 2023, 09:18 »

The newspapers write that fentanyl and its analogues are very strong drugs, deadly. It's easy to mix things up wrong and people die. And if they write that 99% of fentanyl is produced by China, and if this is true, then all the blame lies with China.

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #1137 on:** August 19, 2023, 15:24 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 19, 2023, 09:18

The newspapers write that fentanyl and its analogues are very strong drugs, deadly. It's easy to mix things up wrong and people die. And if they write that 99% of fentanyl is produced by China, and if this is true, then all the blame lies with China.

Counter question: If the U.S. succeeded in stopping all fentanyl imports, from China or wherever - would the drug problem then be solved?

And again and again and again: Fentanyl itself is not lethal, but the abuse is.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #1138 on:** August 19, 2023, 16:42 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 19, 2023, 02:42

Not to mention that the coronavirus was created in China, after which a lot of people died in the US and the EU. Perhaps this is how China planned to use this virus, because totalitarian and fascist countries do not feel sorry for their people. Or maybe China planned to release the coronavirus in the US and the EU with less losses for China. But in fact, many people in the US and the EU were killed by the coronovirus and the economies of democratic countries suffered huge losses. And immediately after that, Russia began the active phase of the war. These are not coincidences! This is war.

You do have your tin foil hat on, don't you? Otherwise the russians and chinese will crawl into your brain

trabuco · « **Reply #1139 on:** August 20, 2023, 01:38 »

You should look into your own country, because is just an USA problem. Not a conspiracy. And should face the problem, not leaving them die on the streets. It's bizarre and a third world picture.

This kind of drugs in many cases are given because you can't stay at home when you are ill.

In Europe you can't get fentanyl or anything like that, just when you are dying with pain. It's impossible to become a heavy addict for using prescriptions.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1140 on:** August 20, 2023, 02:33 »

Quote from: RalfLiebhold on August 19, 2023, 15:24

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 19, 2023, 09:18
The newspapers write that fentanyl and its analogues are very strong drugs, deadly. It's easy to mix things up wrong and people die. And if they write that 99% of fentanyl is produced by China, and if this is true, then all the blame lies with China.

Counter question: If the U.S. succeeded in stopping all fentanyl imports, from China or wherever - would the drug problem then be solved?

And again and again and again: Fentanyl itself is not lethal, but the abuse is.

The problem is not drug use. Problems in the huge mortality from drugs containing Fentanyl. You understand that drug cartels and drug dealers on the streets are not medical institutions that make certified drugs in laboratories.
People used drugs before, they were treated, but now it is the level of an epidemic. They write that more people will die from drugs containing Fentanyl than died from AIDS. Will die from drugs not bought in a pharmacy! And people of mobilization age are dying, i.e. young, future soldiers in case of war.
I do not write anywhere and no one writes that Fentanyl should be banned in medicine. China produces Fentanyl not for medicine, but in clandestine laboratories and smuggles it to the USA, incl. through Mexico. Further, either in the US or in Mexico, this Fentanyl is mixed with other drugs (which are much weaker) and sold to US citizens. This clandestine Fentanyl is already shipping to EU countries too, so the EU is next.
Of course, if you eliminate clandestine laboratories in China and stop the drug Fentanyl from getting into the US and EU, drug-related deaths will drop dramatically. This is what the washingtonpost writes about.
We are not talking about completely defeating the drug mafia, the newspapers write that China has begun to use drugs as a weapon against citizens of democratic countries.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1141 on:** August 20, 2023, 02:41 »

Quote from: trabuco on August 20, 2023, 01:38

You should look into your own country, because is just an USA problem. Not a conspiracy. And should face the problem, not leaving them die on the streets. It's bizarre and a third world picture.

This kind of drugs in many cases are given because you can't stay at home when you are ill.

In Europe you can't get fentanyl or anything like that, just when you are dying with pain. It's impossible to become a heavy addict for using prescriptions.

You need to read those articles links to which I gave and similar articles. I nowhere write that Fentanyl for medical purposes is evil. This topic is about the drug mafia and China's use of Fentanyl as a weapon.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1142 on:** August 20, 2023, 04:41 »

China helping to arm Russia with helicopters, drones and metals.
Russian firms have received tens of thousands of Chinese shipments since the war in Ukraine began

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/19/china-helping-arm-russia-helicopters-drones-metals-xi-putin/

I recommend everyone to read this article.
In order to defeat fascist russia, it is necessary to impose powerful sanctions against China.

Annie2022 · « **Reply #1143 on:** August 20, 2023, 06:02 »

Oh no, Stoker's on another conspiracy bender.

Stoke, you do realize that WWIII will not be about how many foot soldiers a country has, don't you?

And covid didn't kill off young, healthy people - and the number of deaths from Fentanyl is just a fraction of the total USA population, anyway.

Have you thought of writing scripts for horror or armageddon movies as a new pastime?

Just kidding, at least this is entertaining if somewhat frustrating to read.

trabuco · « **Reply #1144 on:** August 20, 2023, 06:09 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 02:41

Quote from: trabuco on August 20, 2023, 01:38
You should look into your own country, because is just an USA problem. Not a conspiracy. And should face the problem, not leaving them die on the streets. It's bizarre and a third world picture.

This kind of drugs in many cases are given because you can't stay at home when you are ill.

In Europe you can't get fentanyl or anything like that, just when you are dying with pain. It's impossible to become a heavy addict for using prescriptions.
You need to read those articles links to which I gave and similar articles. I nowhere write that Fentanyl for medical purposes is evil. This topic is about the drug mafia and China's use of Fentanyl as a weapon.

Massive drug problems, in the USA, are not from illegal drugs. They are from prescriptions and are not new. You have that problem for decades.

When the whole country becomes addict, the problem are not mafias o China.

We have drug trafficking too, all countries have, but our streets don't look like a zombie war zone.

It's just your problem, It's massive and it's scaring for you.

But can't happen in the EU.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1145 on:** August 20, 2023, 06:38 »

trabuco, as you may have noticed, I provided links to articles in the washingtonpost. And it’s up to everyone how to understand what is written there. I'm not a doctor here. And I am not a US citizen and do not live in the US.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1146 on:** August 20, 2023, 06:46 »

Quote from: Annie on August 20, 2023, 06:02

Oh no, Stoker's on another conspiracy bender.

Stoke, you do realize that WWIII will not be about how many foot soldiers a country has, don't you?

And covid didn't kill off young, healthy people - and the number of deaths from Fentanyl is just a fraction of the total USA population, anyway.

Have you thought of writing scripts for horror or armageddon movies as a new pastime? Just kidding, at least this is entertaining if somewhat frustrating to read.

WWIII has been going on for 10 years now. I know that you personally have not noticed it yet. Did you think that WWIII was just the use of nuclear weapons? You are greatly mistaken. Who copied such thoughts into your head at all?
WWIII is the application of sanctions, the use of bacteriological weapons (covid 19) and the use of Fentanyl, and the attack on Ukraine and much more we will see. Will we see the use of nuclear weapons?, I don't know.
Of course, not all citizens of democratic countries have died from covid 19, and not all of them die from Fentanyl either. But if the population of China is 1.5 billion people, then the population of the United States is 300 million people. There have been many deaths from covid 19 in the EU and the US, but the economies of these countries have also been hit very hard. Killing the US and EU economy is also China's goal. And in vain you think that the number of potential soldiers does not matter. In Ukraine, the number of soldiers is of great importance. And if the Russians begin to advance on the eastern bloc of NATO, the number of soldiers will also be of great importance. I'm not talking about if China starts to attack different countries.
And even when nuclear weapons are used, the number of soldiers also matters, because. nuclear weapons are intended more for the destruction of civilians. Using nuclear weapons against the enemy army is not very effective, because the soldiers maneuver and have protection against radiation.
I'm not a director or a screenwriter, I'm discussing WWIII in this thread, which has been going on for a long time.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1147 on:** August 20, 2023, 06:52 »

Annie, the photo shows your position in life. Get your head out of the sand faster. Of course, I understand that Australia is far from Ukraine, but Australia is not far from China.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1148 on:** August 20, 2023, 07:04 »

Someone, finally explain to Annie from Australia that WWIII is not only and not necessarily the use of nuclear weapons.

My English is not enough.

Annie2022 · « **Reply #1149 on:** August 20, 2023, 07:19 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 07:04

Someone, finally explain to Annie from Australia that WWIII is not only and not necessarily the use of nuclear weapons.

My English is not enough.

You are jumping to conclusions again, Stoke. You said that, I didn't. I didn't even mention nuclear weapons.

I am starting to wonder if its an English translation problem. You read something and then somehow change it to something else in your mind. This is what happens to a lot of your posts, or interpretations of what you read in newspaper articles.

If this is true, then I understand.

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Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 142605 times)

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