Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

Quote from: Wilm on April 15, 2023, 14:19

Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P

Quote from: Wilm on April 15, 2023, 14:19

Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

If Germany knows that there will be hostilities in the EU, then of course it is better not to have a nuclear power plant on its territory at all.
No matter how it all ends with the fact that Germany will again begin to buy energy from Russia.

"(Eastern) Europe is even more dependent on Russian fuel

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 15, 2023, 19:02

Quote from: Wilm on April 15, 2023, 14:19

Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."

Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe.

What a lie, what a delusion. You are trying to attribute the guilt of the fascists and terrorism to democratic countries. And in this way you are trying to divert people's attention from the crimes of the Russians. You act according to the manuals of the KGB. Like, yes, we are bad, but everyone around is also bad and there is no justice anywhere.
The US and EU countries do not engage in genocide and murder. The US Army, if it fights, then only with the enemy army, while observing all the Geneva Conventions. The same Saddam Hussein was a tyrant.

Quote from: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 09:59

Quote from: Annie on April 16, 2023, 07:43

Quote from: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 03:55

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 15, 2023, 19:02

Quote from: Wilm on April 15, 2023, 14:19

Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."

Australia has about 30% of the world's uranium. Buy more from us!

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx

Actually, I cringe that I even wrote that (even in jest). When I was in my 20s, I used to protest against uranium mining in Australia. (of course, we have coal as well *sigh*)

In my heart of hearts, I've always been against stripping our world of its natural resources. What happened with wind and solar power? A few years ago, I thought Germany was a European leader in renewable energy. Or am I wrong, Wilm?

As far as Europe is concerned, that is correct, Annie. In a global comparison, Germany is in third place, behind the USA in second place and China in first place.
That refers to the amount of energy in TWh that is generated from renewable energy sources in these countries.

If you were to convert that to the amount generated and consumed per capita, the Scandinavians in particular would be way out in front.

In terms of our electricity consumption, 51.5% in Germany is now generated from renewables. However, the share accounted for by lignite and hard coal is still very high at 30.5% in the first quarter of 2023.

But that's just the topic of electricity. Electricity accounts for only 20% of our total German energy requirements. Energy demand for mobility, industry and much more changes the balance extremely.
Here, oil (33%) and gas (27%) are the main energy sources. In order to create more independence here, an extremely large amount of change must still take place. There is still a very long way to go.

Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.

But electromobility also brings with it dependency problems. Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe. Large deposits have been found in Sweden, but in general, Europeans are extremely dependent on imports. It's a vicious circle.

Germany being a global leader in the transition to renewable energy is two-faced and it has some very important nuances.

First of all, the  capacity of wind and solar they built up the last decade or so is remarkable, and an example to follow. I applaud that.

On the flipside, you see Germany still lagging behind significantly in bringing down carbon emissions of their electricity generation infrastructure. Despite the huge infrastructure on renewable energy, Germany's average carbon emissions of electricity generation infrastructure still looks bad and they really struggle with bringing it down. And the reason for that is very simple: coal burning. And sorry to say, also shutting down nuclear power plants, which have a very low carbon emission level.
You can easily check the carbon emissions caused by electricity generation here: https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE

Now, I'm not in favor of nuclear energy either, and all you said about it is true Wilm. But, I think the bigger picture is way more nuanced. When a country lacks the geological conditions to severely invest in hydro plants, like the Nordics for instance can do, or you don't have the possibility to explore geothermal energy, like Iceland can do, nuclear is the only non-fossil option for having a rather stable and trustworthy baseline of low carbon energy. Because, let's be fair, solar and wind are unreliable and building storage capacity that will get you through days or weeks of grey and windless weather is realistically not feasible.
Again, not in favor of nuclear, and certainly not in favor of building new nuclear power plants, but these are facts that can not be ignored.

Another fact that can not be ignored is that burning fossil fuels caused way more deaths than nuclear accidents so far. I'm fully aware that accidents in Fukushima and Chernobyl had a dramatic impact on the people living anywhere "near" of those disaster zones and the reported deaths are probably underestimated, but the impact of burning fossils is a totally different scale, both for humans as for nature. Mining accidents, drilling accidents, oil spills, gas leaks, wars fought because of oil, and fine dust particles that come with burning fossils as cherry on the cake. Disasters every now and then, deaths by fine dust particles on a daily basis.
See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/

We can discuss numbers and studies, and I'm anything but an authority on the matter, but the bigger picture is what it is I'm afraid. Burning fossils, and certainly coal, has a devastating impact on all of us. And this is exactly what Germany keeps on doing, at a very large scale, and they will continue for another decade if I'm not mistaken?

The concerns regarding nuclear energy are 100% justified, but the way I look at now it is that bringing down our global carbon emissions became such a priority nowadays that not considering nuclear power as a necessary evil option to do so would be a mistake. In the end, we will need that solution for nuclear waste anyhow, and I know that sounds like a weak excuse (we don't need to put more crap in a shithole knowing we will have to clean it up someday) but the alternative is keep on burning coal and natural gas. Resources that already have a devastating impact, and are putting an end to the world as we know it.

Quote from: stoker2014 on April 14, 2023, 03:57

What a lie, what a delusion. You are trying to attribute the guilt of the fascists and terrorism to democratic countries. And in this way you are trying to divert people's attention from the crimes of the Russians. You act according to the manuals of the KGB. Like, yes, we are bad, but everyone around is also bad and there is no justice anywhere.
The US and EU countries do not engage in genocide and murder. The US Army, if it fights, then only with the enemy army, while observing all the Geneva Conventions. The same Saddam Hussein was a tyrant.

 

LOL, US is doing anything to avoid international democracy and let the international courts decide who was involved in genocide and who was not.

On 17 July 1998, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court was adopted by a vote of 120 to seven, with 21 countries abstaining. The seven countries that voted against the treaty were China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar, the U.S., and Yemen. 

BTW...

387,072 civilians have died violent deaths as a direct result of the U.S. post-9/11 wars.

One example of respecting the Geneva Conventions,  On 3 October 2015, US airstrikes destroyed  hospital in operated solely by Doctors Without Borders, Kunduz killing 42 people.

Should I start posting leaked Abu Ghraib torturing photos so you can explain me how those relate to Geneva Conventions ?

Quote from: Roscoe on April 16, 2023, 15:37

Quote from: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 09:59

Quote from: Annie on April 16, 2023, 07:43

Quote from: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 03:55

Quote from: Zero Talent on April 15, 2023, 19:02

Quote from: Wilm on April 15, 2023, 14:19

Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."

Australia has about 30% of the world's uranium. Buy more from us!

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx

Actually, I cringe that I even wrote that (even in jest). When I was in my 20s, I used to protest against uranium mining in Australia. (of course, we have coal as well *sigh*)

In my heart of hearts, I've always been against stripping our world of its natural resources. What happened with wind and solar power? A few years ago, I thought Germany was a European leader in renewable energy. Or am I wrong, Wilm?

As far as Europe is concerned, that is correct, Annie. In a global comparison, Germany is in third place, behind the USA in second place and China in first place.
That refers to the amount of energy in TWh that is generated from renewable energy sources in these countries.

If you were to convert that to the amount generated and consumed per capita, the Scandinavians in particular would be way out in front.

In terms of our electricity consumption, 51.5% in Germany is now generated from renewables. However, the share accounted for by lignite and hard coal is still very high at 30.5% in the first quarter of 2023.

But that's just the topic of electricity. Electricity accounts for only 20% of our total German energy requirements. Energy demand for mobility, industry and much more changes the balance extremely.
Here, oil (33%) and gas (27%) are the main energy sources. In order to create more independence here, an extremely large amount of change must still take place. There is still a very long way to go.

Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.

But electromobility also brings with it dependency problems. Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe. Large deposits have been found in Sweden, but in general, Europeans are extremely dependent on imports. It's a vicious circle.

Germany being a global leader in the transition to renewable energy is two-faced and it has some very important nuances.

First of all, the  capacity of wind and solar they built up the last decade or so is remarkable, and an example to follow. I applaud that.

On the flipside, you see Germany still lagging behind significantly in bringing down carbon emissions of their electricity generation infrastructure. Despite the huge infrastructure on renewable energy, Germany's average carbon emissions of electricity generation infrastructure still looks bad and they really struggle with bringing it down. And the reason for that is very simple: coal burning. And sorry to say, also shutting down nuclear power plants, which have a very low carbon emission level.
You can easily check the carbon emissions caused by electricity generation here: https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE

Now, I'm not in favor of nuclear energy either, and all you said about it is true Wilm. But, I think the bigger picture is way more nuanced. When a country lacks the geological conditions to severely invest in hydro plants, like the Nordics for instance can do, or you don't have the possibility to explore geothermal energy, like Iceland can do, nuclear is the only non-fossil option for having a rather stable and trustworthy baseline of low carbon energy. Because, let's be fair, solar and wind are unreliable and building storage capacity that will get you through days or weeks of grey and windless weather is realistically not feasible.
Again, not in favor of nuclear, and certainly not in favor of building new nuclear power plants, but these are facts that can not be ignored.

Another fact that can not be ignored is that burning fossil fuels caused way more deaths than nuclear accidents so far. I'm fully aware that accidents in Fukushima and Chernobyl had a dramatic impact on the people living anywhere "near" of those disaster zones and the reported deaths are probably underestimated, but the impact of burning fossils is a totally different scale, both for humans as for nature. Mining accidents, drilling accidents, oil spills, gas leaks, wars fought because of oil, and fine dust particles that come with burning fossils as cherry on the cake. Disasters every now and then, deaths by fine dust particles on a daily basis.
See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/

We can discuss numbers and studies, and I'm anything but an authority on the matter, but the bigger picture is what it is I'm afraid. Burning fossils, and certainly coal, has a devastating impact on all of us. And this is exactly what Germany keeps on doing, at a very large scale, and they will continue for another decade if I'm not mistaken?

The concerns regarding nuclear energy are 100% justified, but the way I look at now it is that bringing down our global carbon emissions became such a priority nowadays that not considering nuclear power as a necessary evil option to do so would be a mistake. In the end, we will need that solution for nuclear waste anyhow, and I know that sounds like a weak excuse (we don't need to put more crap in a shithole knowing we will have to clean it up someday) but the alternative is keep on burning coal and natural gas. Resources that already have a devastating impact, and are putting an end to the world as we know it.

Thank you for your factual contribution, Roscoe.

I am absolutely aware that the nuclear phase-out also has negative sides.

Germany, as the largest industrial nation, also has the highest CO2 emissions per capita in the EU. Of these CO2 emissions, by far the largest share is due to the burning of oil and gas. Even the continued operation of nuclear power plants would not change this much.

If you now pick a few countries and look at how high the share of nuclear power in the total electricity generation in the country was in 2021, you can see, for example, that this was 28% in South Korea, 20% in Russia, 19.6% in the USA and 14.8% in Canada.
In these 4 countries, CO2 emissions per capita are nevertheless significantly higher than in Germany, where the share of nuclear power was only 11.9%.

Of course, the burning of coal in Germany remains without doubt a major problem. And we would burn less coal if we continued to operate nuclear power plants - no question about that either. Above all, we need to consume less energy and drive the expansion of renewable energies much more strongly and quickly.

Quote from: Lizard on April 16, 2023, 20:37

Quote from: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 09:59

Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.

That sounds really nice. Hearing it like this it seams that they are doing a great thing for the environment.

Please, lets define things a bit

On the other hand 50% of Norwegian export product is...you got it right OIL. So in numbers a country that contributes worlds population at 0.06% is producing 3.53% of the oil production in the world worth around 22 billion $ yearly.

They are probably decreasing that in time right since all that renewable energy being forward thing and advanced awareness ?

Well lets check it out...



Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports


And than their government can nicely use that income to exclude people from VAT obligations when buying electric cars, offer them free or significantly cheaper parking and other benefits and pump the numbers , and there you have it... an idyllic environment friendly mini society so far ahead as an example to the rest of the world to follow.

If we don't mention that Norway is contributing per inhabitant to the worlds oil consumption outside of their borders more than any other nation in the world behind Kuwait ( and not far behind at all  )


This example should be in worlds dictionaries describing Hypocrisy at its finest.

What is a not so hypocritical solution from your point of view? Should Norway stop exporting oil so that Russia (1.8% of the world's population, 12.7% of the world's oil) can sell more oil?

Quote from: Wilm on April 17, 2023, 04:54

Quote from: Lizard on April 16, 2023, 20:37

Quote from: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 09:59

Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.

That sounds really nice. Hearing it like this it seams that they are doing a great thing for the environment.

Please, lets define things a bit

On the other hand 50% of Norwegian export product is...you got it right OIL. So in numbers a country that contributes worlds population at 0.06% is producing 3.53% of the oil production in the world worth around 22 billion $ yearly.

They are probably decreasing that in time right since all that renewable energy being forward thing and advanced awareness ?

Well lets check it out...



Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports


And than their government can nicely use that income to exclude people from VAT obligations when buying electric cars, offer them free or significantly cheaper parking and other benefits and pump the numbers , and there you have it... an idyllic environment friendly mini society so far ahead as an example to the rest of the world to follow.

If we don't mention that Norway is contributing per inhabitant to the worlds oil consumption outside of their borders more than any other nation in the world behind Kuwait ( and not far behind at all  )


This example should be in worlds dictionaries describing Hypocrisy at its finest.

What is a not so hypocritical solution from your point of view? Should Norway stop exporting oil so that Russia (1.8% of the world's population, 12.7% of the world's oil) can sell more oil?

When you are out of arguments just throw Russia in.

The topic was Norway being so further away on renewable energy. The solution is they can as well continue using their oil in their car cause they oil is going to be used anyway around the world.

Quote from: stoker2014 on April 17, 2023, 05:16

You started twisting the facts. Non-ratification of the court does not mean that the country has committed crimes. There are reasonable explanations for everything, and at one time I read them.
At the expense of destroyed hospitals, killed people, torture, you have no evidence, all this is 90-99 percent propaganda.
Recently, you used Russian propaganda here, wrote that the APU was shooting at the homes of civilians, but this is a lie that the Russians threw in. The Russians themselves kill people, and then immediately blame the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, stop writing in this topic, there is 0 trust in your texts.

LOL 

The only one twisting the facts are you with denying the facts and spreading your little propaganda with closing eyes in fron of your war crimes and pointing fingers only at others while you are basically the same. 

Once again, Russia is a country spreading terror in their path of word dominance and so is US and they should both be put on ignore by the rest of the world until they change their aggressive policies and accept the authority of international courts like the rest of democratic world.   

Sure, you are probably the on who is gonna decide who writes what and what the truth is.