Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 128527 times)

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #425 on:** May 16, 2023, 06:06 »

Just to add my 2 cents. Russia simply will not stop until they are stopped.

Not sure why it hasn't been publicised more but they have already stepped up attempts to destabilise Moldova, even going as far as to attempt a coup. Private Eye did some good reporting on it but as that isn’t online here's a Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/

This is while they are already stretched in Ukraine. If they get what they want there, give them just enough time to recover and they will be on to the next country. They should have been stopped in 2008 when they invaded Georgia, then maybe Crimea wouldn't have been invaded. Sadly any concession they see as weakness.

Any talk about the West expanding the war is absurd. Russia will continue to expand either way, it just depends on what terms. I really don’t know what the solution is but that’s the truth of the situation as it currently stands.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #426 on:** May 16, 2023, 07:40 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on May 16, 2023, 06:06

Just to add my 2 cents. Russia simply will not stop until they are stopped.

Not sure why it hasn't been publicised more but they have already stepped up attempts to destabilise Moldova, even going as far as to attempt a coup. Private Eye did some good reporting on it but as that isn’t online here's a Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/

This is while they are already stretched in Ukraine. If they get what they want there, give them just enough time to recover and they will be on to the next country. They should have been stopped in 2008 when they invaded Georgia, then maybe Crimea wouldn't have been invaded. Sadly any concession they see as weakness.

Any talk about the West expanding the war is absurd. Russia will continue to expand either way, it just depends on what terms. I really don’t know what the solution is but that’s the truth of the situation as it currently stands.

+100.
Russia's goal is to occupy at least half of the EU.
But I would not start from 2008, for some reason everyone does not remember how Russia killed Chechens, killed women and children in the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Russia started a war against the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in 1994. As a result, Russia occupied Ichkeria. The democratic countries allowed Russia to commit these war crimes, probably the media did not even show it. The losses of the Chechen people were huge.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #427 on:** May 16, 2023, 07:56 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on May 16, 2023, 06:06

I really don’t know what the solution is but that’s the truth of the situation as it currently stands.

Everything is very simple. The terrorist and fascist regime in the Russian empire must be destroyed. For this you need:
1. Supply more and more weapons to the Ukrainian army. Ukraine, since the days of Kievan Rus', has been protecting Europe from barbarian invasions. Ukraine will protect Europe even now.
2. More and more sanctions against Russia and the Russian people.
3. It is necessary to destroy the Russian empire and give the occupied peoples independence.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #428 on:** May 16, 2023, 07:56 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 07:40

+100.
Russia's goal is to occupy at least half of the EU.
But I would not start from 2008, for some reason everyone does not remember how Russia killed Chechens, killed women and children in the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Russia started a war against the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in 1994. As a result, Russia occupied Ichkeria. The democratic countries allowed Russia to commit these war crimes, probably the media did not even show it. The losses of the Chechen people were huge.

I had to start somewhere but yes you are correct. The Chechen example is in fact perhaps the most frightening. They killed so many people and destroyed so much of the country, yet still have managed to maintain control after the war by utilising oppression and brutality. I pray for the people of Ukraine.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #429 on:** May 16, 2023, 10:07 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on May 16, 2023, 06:06

Just to add my 2 cents. Russia simply will not stop until they are stopped.

Not sure why it hasn't been publicised more but they have already stepped up attempts to destabilise Moldova, even going as far as to attempt a coup. Private Eye did some good reporting on it but as that isn’t online here's a Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/

This is while they are already stretched in Ukraine. If they get what they want there, give them just enough time to recover and they will be on to the next country. They should have been stopped in 2008 when they invaded Georgia, then maybe Crimea wouldn't have been invaded. Sadly any concession they see as weakness.

Any talk about the West expanding the war is absurd. Russia will continue to expand either way, it just depends on what terms. I really don’t know what the solution is but that’s the truth of the situation as it currently stands.

The good news is that now Moldova has finally succeded in electing a very smart and charismatic, pro-EU president, Maia Sandu. I can see similarities between her and Zelensky.

A couple of days ago, Moldova just decided to leave the russian-dominated "Commonwealth of Independent States" (CIS). The main reason is russia's ongoing support of so-called Transnistria, which is currently occupying Moldovan territory in the East of the country.

Transnistria is a self-proclaimed country, a russian puppet organization, where a russian army is stationed to "keep the peace". Its "independence" is only recognized by South Ossetia, Artsakh, and Abkhazia, themselves being russian puppets, russian sponsored, breakaway provinces of Georgia and Armenia.

Transnistria was part of the original (but now failing) putin's "master plan" to land-lock Ukraine, as we can see on this map, accidentally (?) revealed during one of Lukashenko's briefings (note the invasion arrow pointing from Odessa towards Moldova, and how Transnistria was already marked as russian)

stoker2014 · « **Reply #430 on:** May 16, 2023, 11:12 »

Transnistria, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, "Donetsk Republic", Crimea, these are all territories occupied by Russia. These are elements of a hybrid war. Russia occupies territories, but does not always formally annex them. This is done in order to continue the occupation of the affected countries at any time.
As for Transnistria specifically, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will free this territory from Russian troops in the future, because it poses a threat to Ukraine.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #431 on:** May 16, 2023, 11:22 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 11:12

As for Transnistria specifically, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will free this territory from Russian troops in the future, because. it poses a threat to Ukraine.

That cannot happen. After being invaded by russia, Ukraine will never invade Moldova.

Instead, I expect a Moldo-Ukrainian alliance to be formed, aiming to liberate, together, the occupied Moldovan lands, and expel the russian army from there, because it's posing a threat to both countries.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #432 on:** May 16, 2023, 13:07 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on May 16, 2023, 11:22

Quote from: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 11:12

As for Transnistria specifically, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will free this territory from Russian troops in the future, because. it poses a threat to Ukraine.

That cannot happen. After being invaded by russia, Ukraine will never invade Moldova.

Instead, I expect a Moldo-Ukrainian alliance to be formed, aiming to liberate, together, the occupied Moldovan lands, and expel the russian army from there, because it's posing a threat to both countries.

Of course. Ukraine will never occupy anyone. The Moldovan government will ask the government of Ukraine to provide military assistance to liberate Transnistria.
Moldova has a big problem, it does not have a good army.
But, if in the near future Russian troops from Transnistria start shelling or attacking Ukraine, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be forced to liquidate this terrorist enclave, and without the permission of Moldova.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #433 on:** May 17, 2023, 03:54 »

Maybe not everyone knows. There has long been such a term as Rashism. Rashism is Russian fascism. But there is no difference between fascism and Rashism. Russians are often called not only fascists and terrorists, but also rashists.
More details here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruscism

Annie2022 · « **Reply #434 on:** May 17, 2023, 15:54 »

BBC Special: Inside Russia

https://youtu.be/ImE_fNTXN34

Quote

In February 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine.

Despite the huge risks, two Russian filmmakers spent the year filming the impact of the war inside their country. Hundreds of thousands have fled. Those that stayed have had to choose - to oppose, support or stay silent. A group of young graffiti artists begin a campaign of subversive art to mock the government’s pro-war propaganda. An actor mourns her brother who was killed in Mariupol fighting for the Russian Armed Forces. She is against the war; her father supports it.

Storyville Inside Russia: Traitors and Heroes was produced by BBC World Service’s investigation unit, BBC Eye.

Directed by Anastasia Popova, produced by Misha Kozyrev and Stephanie Stafford, Edited by Anna Saridi & Baya Cat, Exec Producer Monica Garnsey.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #435 on:** May 18, 2023, 03:47 »

Quote from: Annie on May 17, 2023, 15:54

BBC Special: Inside Russia
https://youtu.be/ImE_fNTXN34
Quote
In February 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine.
Despite the huge risks, two Russian filmmakers spent the year filming the impact of the war inside their country. Hundreds of thousands have fled. Those that stayed have had to choose - to oppose, support or stay silent. A group of young graffiti artists begin a campaign of subversive art to mock the government’s pro-war propaganda. An actor mourns her brother who was killed in Mariupol fighting for the Russian Armed Forces. She is against the war; her father supports it.
Storyville Inside Russia: Traitors and Heroes was produced by BBC World Service’s investigation unit, BBC Eye.
Directed by Anastasia Popova, produced by Misha Kozyrev and Stephanie Stafford, Edited by Anna Saridi & Baya Cat, Exec Producer Monica Garnsey.

I didn't like anything there. A movie about the so-called "good" Russians. They call the war, the occupation and the killing of women and children "special operation". Not a movie, but solid snot, sitting in the kitchens, saying something there, and drawing something incomprehensible somewhere.
In this thread, I asked one "good" Russian 5 questions, and so these questions should be asked to all Russians who believe that they are not fascists and are like "good". As practice has shown, 99% of Russians cannot pass this test. Rashism sits in their subconscious, and they consider themselves the titular nation, and they are all for the Russian empire and the so-called "Russian world". In short, they are all fascists and chauvinists, these Russians.
As I wrote earlier, they all like the results of Putin, but some do not like his methods.
Now their so-called "opposition" is criticizing their defense industry, how badly missiles are made there. They want their rockets to produce well and more Ukrainian women and children to die. That's all you need to know about Russians.

And those Russians who left Russia, we also see them, they run around Germany with Russian flags on May 9, and shout that Russian winners and Russia are cool. It is necessary to expel all these Russians from democratic countries, they bring evil with them.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #436 on:** May 18, 2023, 03:53 »

It would be better if the BBC made a film about those russians who, as part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, are fighting against russian terrorists and fascists in Ukraine. Or they made a film about those russians who went into partisans and destroy fuel depots and railway trains with armored vehicles. Unless, of course, such partisan detachments exist in this fascist Russia.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #437 on:** May 18, 2023, 04:06 »

99% of russians are sitting in their Russia quietly on their ass, waiting for Putin to kill all Ukrainians. And they are all proud of the fact that they are russian and proud of their country, their city, May 9th. That's it, they don't do anything else. Protests, incl. armed, against fascism is not there and never has been and never will be. Putin is their tsar, whom they themselves have chosen and whom they want there, he represents 99% of Russians.
Any normal person should be ashamed to even say that he is russian and that he lives in Russia.

Roscoe · « **Reply #438 on:** May 18, 2023, 04:11 »

Quote from: Annie on May 06, 2023, 15:19

We were speaking of Fox News earlier on this thread. This has been in the news:

"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988

Quote
Canadian regulators have launched a public consultation on calls to ban Fox News from cable packages after receiving complaints saying the network has aired hateful content about LGBTQ2S+ people.

The public consultation, which began earlier this month, was triggered by an open letter from advocacy group Egale Canada.

"People in Canada deserve to know that the news broadcast on Canadian airwaves is reliable and objective, and marginalized groups must be protected from malicious propaganda," the group's executive director Helen Kennedy wrote.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

When your key objective is providing reliable and objective news outlets, Fox news has no place on your network, that's clear.

But. It's a very slippery slope, and no matter how much I dislike media outlets as Fox, I really wonder a ban is the right thing to do.
It will put them in their favorite position: a gagged victim. It will give them the power to say: your government doesn't want you to hear what we have to say. Your government only feeds you what they want you to eat. It also gives them more power to attack the mistakes other non-banned media make. And people will keep on consuming fox over the internet anyhow, getting even more tangled up in their spiderweb because they don't trust their own media regulator anymore.

The examples I've seen from (from my point of view justified) banning extreme voices in my country only made them more popular. We did that. We banned a far-right political party. We got them convicted for racism. Mainstream media banned them from interviews and tv-shows for a very long time. Yet. They are now the biggest political party in my country up to a point where they can't be ignored anymore. The same is happening with communists. Banned from mainstream media for a very long time, banned from taking part in governments, yet, they keep on growing election after election, up to a point where they can't be ignored anymore.

We started a war against illegal drugs. Yet, finding a dealer never was easier than today, one of our cities is a major drug trafficking hub in the world, and we have weekly incidents with explosions, drive by shootings and brutal murders organized by drug organizations.

I believe that hard repression against opposing or rather extreme voices has no place in a democracy. It will end in a highly polarized culture war with the winner installing a dictatorial leadership applying harsh repression tactics against opposition and allowing very little freedom, even for the ones who are rather supportive for the leadership. Nobody truly enjoys living in a society like that. At the same time, I strongly believe in a society setting boundaries to what is acceptable and what not, with consequences on freedom and freedom of speech.

Two quotes whom I hold in high esteem:
- I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
- Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid crap.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #439 on:** May 18, 2023, 04:12 »

Nikolaev, Ukraine. Two days ago, russian rocket.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #440 on:** May 18, 2023, 04:17 »

Quote from: Roscoe on May 18, 2023, 04:11

At the same time, I strongly believe in a society setting boundaries to what is acceptable and what not, with consequences on freedom and freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid crap.

Well, they banned the channel, or they want to ban it. Criminal cases are also needed. For the propaganda of fascism, racism and rashism, you need to be imprisoned.
Democracy is not a toy, it is above all the rule of law. Democracy is not an unarmed society, it is a very well armed society.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #441 on:** May 18, 2023, 11:13 »

The russians are going to escalate the war around the world. As early as this month, Russia will start supplying fighter jets to Iran. This will escalate the war in the Middle East. Israel is under threat.
In response, a decision was made to transfer F16 fighter jets to Ukraine. These fighters have been needed for more than a year.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #442 on:** May 18, 2023, 13:05 »

Quote from: Annie on May 06, 2023, 15:19

We were speaking of Fox News earlier on this thread. This has been in the news:

"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988

Quote
Canadian regulators have launched a public consultation on calls to ban Fox News from cable packages after receiving complaints saying the network has aired hateful content about LGBTQ2S+ people.

The public consultation, which began earlier this month, was triggered by an open letter from advocacy group Egale Canada.

"People in Canada deserve to know that the news broadcast on Canadian airwaves is reliable and objective, and marginalized groups must be protected from malicious propaganda," the group's executive director Helen Kennedy wrote.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I don't watch Fox News I don't have cable. I have no thoughts that I am missing something. They are terribly biased from what others report. That's OK the Govt. subsidized and managed PBS is also someone what biased towards the left.

But I had to look this one up as there are more letters added or removed in various positions on the subject: LGBTQ2S+ meaning is an acronym for sexual orientations and gender identities that are not heterosexual or cisgender. It stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer or Questioning, and Two-Spirit
That's one is new for me.

This on has added more letters as well: LGBTQIA+ is an abbreviation for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, asexual, and more.

But back to the point. Canada is saying that Fox must accept and embrace LGBTQ+ or be banned. Oh right, there isn't free speech in Canada. Hard to say this, because I do not agree with Fox News leanings, but it seems a bit repressive while claiming to be inclusive? What about someones right to not accept a social or political position? Don't they have a choice or freedom of thought?

Annie2022 · « **Reply #443 on:** May 18, 2023, 13:49 »

Quote from: Roscoe on May 18, 2023, 04:11

Quote from: Annie on May 06, 2023, 15:19
We were speaking of Fox News earlier on this thread. This has been in the news:

"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988

Quote
Canadian regulators have launched a public consultation on calls to ban Fox News from cable packages after receiving complaints saying the network has aired hateful content about LGBTQ2S+ people.

The public consultation, which began earlier this month, was triggered by an open letter from advocacy group Egale Canada.

"People in Canada deserve to know that the news broadcast on Canadian airwaves is reliable and objective, and marginalized groups must be protected from malicious propaganda," the group's executive director Helen Kennedy wrote.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

When your key objective is providing reliable and objective news outlets, Fox news has no place on your network, that's clear.

But. It's a very slippery slope, and no matter how much I dislike media outlets as Fox, I really wonder a ban is the right thing to do.
It will put them in their favorite position: a gagged victim. It will give them the power to say: your government doesn't want you to hear what we have to say. Your government only feeds you what they want you to eat. It also gives them more power to attack the mistakes other non-banned media make. And people will keep on consuming fox over the internet anyhow, getting even more tangled up in their spiderweb because they don't trust their own media regulator anymore.

The examples I've seen from (from my point of view justified) banning extreme voices in my country only made them more popular. We did that. We banned a far-right political party. We got them convicted for racism. Mainstream media banned them from interviews and tv-shows for a very long time. Yet. They are now the biggest political party in my country up to a point where they can't be ignored anymore. The same is happening with communists. Banned from mainstream media for a very long time, banned from taking part in governments, yet, they keep on growing election after election, up to a point where they can't be ignored anymore.

We started a war against illegal drugs. Yet, finding a dealer never was easier than today, one of our cities is a major drug trafficking hub in the world, and we have weekly incidents with explosions, drive by shootings and brutal murders organized by drug organizations.

I believe that hard repression against opposing or rather extreme voices has no place in a democracy. It will end in a highly polarized culture war with the winner installing a dictatorial leadership applying harsh repression tactics against opposition and allowing very little freedom, even for the ones who are rather supportive for the leadership. Nobody truly enjoys living in a society like that. At the same time, I strongly believe in a society setting boundaries to what is acceptable and what not, with consequences on freedom and freedom of speech.

Two quotes whom I hold in high esteem:
- I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
- Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid crap.

Welcome back. So true!

Stoker would probably not agree with me, because he is so angry with Russia, and I am too, Stoker, but we can't stamp out fascism and bad elements by simply blocking them as Roscoe says above.

I think the recent CNN Town Hall with Donald Trump is a perfect example. My husband refused to watch it, I did. I was shocked and upset by things like his heartless attacks on the woman who had just won a sexual abuse case against him. Mocking and humiliating her. But most importantly, at how part of his Republican voter audience applauded him.

Afterwards CNN received a huge backlash from CNN's main audience, angry at the channel for even airing the show. And apparently, that particular CNN timeslot's ratings has suffered from loss of ratings. But as I said to my husband, 'know your enemy' (Sun Tzu). We need to see these things to understand what's really going on.

I have no opinion regarding the Canada situation with Fox News - just interested to see how it plays out. Canada is a different situation of course, because Fox News is basically a political station for American right wing politics, and may not have the same public loyalty in Canada.

As I said above, we can't stamp out bad elements by simply turning a blind eye to it. (Its starting to permeate into Australia too). We need to understand what's going on and then we need to vote. Thats the power of democracy.

farbled · « **Reply #444 on:** May 18, 2023, 14:02 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 18, 2023, 13:05

I don't watch Fox News I don't have cable. I have no thoughts that I am missing something. They are terribly biased from what others report. That's OK the Govt. subsidized and managed PBS is also someone what biased towards the left.

But I had to look this one up as there are more letters added or removed in various positions on the subject: LGBTQ2S+ meaning is an acronym for sexual orientations and gender identities that are not heterosexual or cisgender. It stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer or Questioning, and Two-Spirit
That's one is new for me.

This on has added more letters as well: LGBTQIA+ is an abbreviation for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, asexual, and more.

But back to the point. Canada is saying that Fox must accept and embrace LGBTQ+ or be banned. Oh right, there isn't free speech in Canada. Hard to say this, because I do not agree with Fox News leanings, but it seems a bit repressive while claiming to be inclusive? What about someones right to not accept a social or political position? Don't they have a choice or freedom of thought?

Sorry, this is nonsense and you're perpetuating mis-info by suggesting this is the case. CRTC (our broadcasting authority) has opened a public consultation only. Basically they are asking for opinions about a cable channel that promotes hate-speech and violence toward a specific group. There has been zero talk of banning Fox from anywhere except on cable channels. Everyone can still access fox online if they wish, or through alternate channel deals if they do remove this from cable channel packages.

As for the whole acronym issue, if its a concern then just ask the person if they have a preference on what to be called, Pete. Its respectful and easy and is much the same way doctors like being called "doctor so-and-so." If you don't get the specifics, no one really cares as long as you're respectful if it comes up. I doubt it does to be honest. It is a nonissue except for those who delight in being outraged about it. Keeps the focus off the daily mass shootings I guess.

I just assume most are projecting to be honest. And don't worry, I know I am changing no one's mind.

By the way, we have free speech, guns, and everything else the US has. We just have some rules about them is all, to keep people from using them as weapons against other people. Kinda like having driving tests and sobriety limits when driving. No different.

farbled · « **Reply #445 on:** May 18, 2023, 14:33 »

Quote from: Annie on May 18, 2023, 13:49

As I said above, we can't stamp out bad elements by simply turning a blind eye to it. (Its starting to permeate into Australia too). We need to understand what's going on and then we need to vote. Thats the power of democracy.

I agree, I just think there should be limits to how much nastiness gets a free podium. A different pov is important, but publicly asking folks to commit criminal acts (or support those who do) is less so. And when a "news" channel admits in court that they lied on-air consistently over time, there should be repercussions for that. Yes its a slippery slope, but doing nothing is (again in my opinion) worse.

As for the CNN debacle, Jon Stewart summed it up best I think, he said that while he learned nothing new about DJT, he learned a lot about CNN. Staging a "town hall" in this case added nothing newsworthy (IMHO) except that it allowed DJT to once again run his mouth unchecked. On the plus side, his defamed the woman again live on TV, and last I saw she will be filing another suit. Free money I guess.

And I would add the qualifier that its an educated and informed democracy that is ultimately the most successful.

farbled · « **Reply #446 on:** May 18, 2023, 14:50 »

duplicate. sorry

stoker2014 · « **Reply #447 on:** May 18, 2023, 15:32 »

Quote from: Annie on May 18, 2023, 13:49

Stoker would probably not agree with me, because he is so angry with Russia, and I am too, Stoker, but we can't stamp out fascism and bad elements by simply blocking them as Roscoe says above.

Blocking, liquidate, apply sanctions, this is what needs to be done with evil.
For 30 years, democracy has done nothing with the Russian empire; as a result, democracy has grown fascism and terrorism with its own hands. The same goes for China.
So just looking is not enough.

Annie2022 · « **Reply #448 on:** May 18, 2023, 16:00 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on May 18, 2023, 15:32

Quote from: Annie on May 18, 2023, 13:49
Stoker would probably not agree with me, because he is so angry with Russia, and I am too, Stoker, but we can't stamp out fascism and bad elements by simply blocking them as Roscoe says above.
Blocking, liquidate, apply sanctions, this is what needs to be done with evil.
For 30 years, democracy has done nothing with the Russian empire; as a result, democracy has grown fascism and terrorism with its own hands. The same goes for China.
So just looking is not enough.

I hear you, and I feel the same way about repressive governments. But I don't know if that's that answer.

Sanctions haven't worked. But every one of us in a democratic country can go and vote for our own choice of government who are committed to putting an end to the war. The better informed we all are, the more people we have that can do this.

Annie2022 · « **Reply #449 on:** May 18, 2023, 16:57 »

Quote from: farbled on May 18, 2023, 14:33

Quote from: Annie on May 18, 2023, 13:49
As I said above, we can't stamp out bad elements by simply turning a blind eye to it. (Its starting to permeate into Australia too). We need to understand what's going on and then we need to vote. Thats the power of democracy.

I agree, I just think there should be limits to how much nastiness gets a free podium. A different pov is important, but publicly asking folks to commit criminal acts (or support those who do) is less so. And when a "news" channel admits in court that they lied on-air consistently over time, there should be repercussions for that. Yes its a slippery slope, but doing nothing is (again in my opinion) worse.

As for the CNN debacle, Jon Stewart summed it up best I think, he said that while he learned nothing new about DJT, he learned a lot about CNN. Staging a "town hall" in this case added nothing newsworthy (IMHO) except that it allowed DJT to once again run his mouth unchecked. On the plus side, his defamed the woman again live on TV, and last I saw she will be filing another suit. Free money I guess.

And I would add the qualifier that its an educated and informed democracy that is ultimately the most successful.

I dont think it was a debacle, per se. And attacking CNN is just shooting the messenger. Its ok for the converted who know and dislike him, but there are a lot of moderates, and people who don't go to his rallies, out there who need to see this. I agree with CNN who said afterwards that because he is a front-runner for presidency, it should be seen. 'Know your enemy'.

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