Quote from: Injustice for all on May 31, 2023, 20:30

Russians are not fascists

1. Study this topic on pages 12-13.
2. Talk to Ukrainian refugees from the war zone.
3. The Italian media are very merciful and protect the psyche of their citizens, so they don�t show you even 10% of what is happening in Ukraine. This is so that the Italians do not start hunting Russians on the streets of Italy.
4. Rather than write from Italy, being several thousand kilometers from the front, it is better to come to the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine. You can go there through Russia. When you arrive, say that you are for Ukraine. After that, you will be taken to a concentration camp, there are a lot of them, and in a few minutes you will quickly realize that you have fallen into the hands of the Gestapo.
5. Naturally, the media do not publish photos of Russian atrocities against women and children. But in Ukraine, in state institutions, upon request, they will show you.

Ok I understand your point of view,I respect and understand it but I don't agree,in my opinion the majority of the Russian population doesn't want any war and they are not fascists.
Here in Italy there is no censorship,the atrocities committed against civilian targets,women and children are atrocities committed by the Russian government not by the Russian population.

Quote from: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 02:26

Quote from: Injustice for all on May 31, 2023, 20:30

In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.

Who are you going to give the Ukrainian Crimea to? Maybe also separate Sicily from Italy?

I think Crimea has to decide for Crimea,with all due respect of course,we don't know each other,maybe I'm wrong I don't know,but in my opinion you take too many things for granted,often things are not as they seem.
And to answer your question,yes of course,if Sicily ever wanted to separate from Italy,who are we Italians to oppose the will of the Sicilians?

How is it even possible to truly know what Crimea wants, or say to whom Crimea truly belongs to after a history of changing hands for so many times?

It's a good example of how one-sided imaginary nationalism and made up borders will never able to provide a sustainable and stable solution for any region in the world that's subject of territory claims.

Many countries and regions in the more civilized part of the world found a solution for that: federal states with high degrees of self-government.
Is it perfect? No. Does it bring peace? Political turmoil aside: yes it does.

Plenty of examples to be found on the European continent where regions who feel they don't really fit in the country that claims their territory have gotten a fair amount of self-government through a democratic process. Many of those regions have had violent struggles, but they were all somehow able to leave it all behind because both sides came to the conclusion they couldn't win, and decided to continue their battle politically. Still a lot of crap going on, but at least, regular innocent people minding their own business won't get shot or bombed anymore, and many of those regions thrive and increased their general welfare.

 

Quote from: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 03:36

Quote from: Injustice for all on May 31, 2023, 20:30

Russians are not fascists

1. Study this topic on pages 12-13.
2. Talk to Ukrainian refugees from the war zone.
3. The Italian media are very merciful and protect the psyche of their citizens, so they don�t show you even 10% of what is happening in Ukraine. This is so that the Italians do not start hunting Russians on the streets of Italy.
4. Rather than write from Italy, being several thousand kilometers from the front, it is better to come to the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine. You can go there through Russia. When you arrive, say that you are for Ukraine. After that, you will be taken to a concentration camp, there are a lot of them, and in a few minutes you will quickly realize that you have fallen into the hands of the Gestapo.
5. Naturally, the media do not publish photos of Russian atrocities against women and children. But in Ukraine, in state institutions, upon request, they will show you.

Ok I understand your point of view,I respect and understand it but I don't agree,in my opinion the majority of the Russian population doesn't want any war and they are not fascists.
Here in Italy there is no censorship,the atrocities committed against civilian targets,women and children are atrocities committed by the Russian government not by the Russian population.

It is not the Russian government that crossed the Ukrainian border, and it is not Russian officials who kill people, it is the Russian people who do it.
I heard you, but you are poorly versed in the Russians and what they want. It is enough to read their forums and social networks, there is sheer hatred and propaganda. Yes, and here on the forum, the Russians are mostly silent.

MatHayward does not answer questions. So what about Adobe, does it really give away its programs to all Russians for free?

As discussed before, interesting comment below.

This move should free up troops currently locked along the western border (454km long) allowing them to be redeployed in the east.

Do you think the Russians will withdraw troops from Transnistria? Voluntarily? I doubt it very much. Moldova may need to open a second front.

Quote from: Injustice for all on June 01, 2023, 14:51

Quote from: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 02:26

Quote from: Injustice for all on May 31, 2023, 20:30

In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.

Who are you going to give the Ukrainian Crimea to? Maybe also separate Sicily from Italy?

I think Crimea has to decide for Crimea,with all due respect of course,we don't know each other,maybe I'm wrong I don't know,but in my opinion you take too many things for granted,often things are not as they seem.
And to answer your question,yes of course,if Sicily ever wanted to separate from Italy,who are we Italians to oppose the will of the Sicilians?

How is it even possible to truly know what Crimea wants, or say to whom Crimea truly belongs to after a history of changing hands for so many times?

It's a good example of how one-sided imaginary nationalism and made up borders will never able to provide a sustainable and stable solution for any region in the world that's subject of territory claims.

Many countries and regions in the more civilized part of the world found a solution for that: federal states with high degrees of self-government.
Is it perfect? No. Does it bring peace? Political turmoil aside: yes it does.

Plenty of examples to be found on the European continent where regions who feel they don't really fit in the country that claims their territory have gotten a fair amount of self-government through a democratic process. Many of those regions have had violent struggles, but they were all somehow able to leave it all behind because both sides came to the conclusion they couldn't win, and decided to continue their battle politically. Still a lot of crap going on, but at least, regular innocent people minding their own business won't get shot or bombed anymore, and many of those regions thrive and increased their general welfare.

yes,I absolutely cannot counter such an argument because it is the truth,Crimea is in total confusion,I think a referendum can clarify but,
the last referendum in 2014 was declared illegal by Ukraine because Ukraine itself feared that the independent republic of Crimea could become part of the Russian Federation,furthermore,in 2014 Crimea itself declared itself independent from Ukraine.
Crimea was given back to Ukraine by the United Nations General Assembly which declared the last referendum invalid,Russia has never accepted this result,China also abstained at the time.

China abstained and was never openly opposed to the referendum result,which says a lot about China's intentions in an open NATO conflict against Russia.

Quote from: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 16:16

Quote from: Zero Talent on June 01, 2023, 16:01

As discussed before, interesting comment below.

This move should free up troops currently locked along the western border (454km long) allowing them to be redeployed in the east.

Do you think the Russians will withdraw troops from Transnistria? Voluntarily? I doubt it very much. Moldova may need to open a second front.

All the European state and government leaders are in Moldova today. This topic must have been on the table.
Poland just announced that they sent a huge amount of military equipment to Moldova.

Zelensky's meeting with Maia Sandu took place. Zelensky said that the armed forces of Ukraine could destroy Russian invaders and Moldovan collaborators on the territory of Transnistria. In fact, Zelensky proposes to do this.
International law allows Ukraine to liquidate Russian soldiers in any part of the globe. Legally, Ukraine can begin the liquidation of Russian occupiers in the territory of Transnistria without the permission of Moldova. But, given the good relations between Kyiv and Chișinău, Moldova needs to hurry up and ask Kyiv for military assistance.
From a military point of view, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will do this, because. Russians detain Ukrainian troops in this Transnistria.

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!

Quote from: stoker2014 on June 02, 2023, 06:24

Kiev and Kishinev

Kyiv and Chișinău
Don't use russified names 

+100
Yes, this is Russian propaganda + my bad English. I have corrected.

Quote from: Zero Talent on May 31, 2023, 10:22

And, please, repeat after me: NATO IS NOT EXPANDING. NATO is joined!

Repeat after me: NATO IS EXPANDING.

And what? Everything popular is expanding. But not through war and occupation, but through the voluntary entry of new members into the organization. What's wrong with NATO? NATO, unlike Russia, is not a fascist and terrorist organization.

Yep, this is why Sweden was recently coerced to become part of NATO.
Ooh wait...

They have not yet taken it to NATO, but they are already sending troops there, occupying and shooting everyone who is against it. 

Repeat after me: REFERENDUM IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF DEMOCRACY.

Of course.
But no country is ruled by referendum only, because that would be highly impractical.
In fact, all democracies are run by their elected representatives who are entrusted by the voters to act on their behalf.

In some countries, all constitutional changes require validation through a referendum. But even if a country has chosen to make them through their elected representatives, it doesn't make these countries less democratic.

As far as I am aware, all NATO countries have the option to reject the democratic decision made by their representatives, by calling a referendum, if enough signatures are collected to call for it and if enough people show up to vote against it.

So if you are unhappy with the decision of your democratically elected politicians, instead of whining, have at it: organize a referendum and get out, as the Brits did with their Brexit!

But I have a very strong feeling that if you do that you will score an outstanding failure, especially these days, when everybody can see what happened to Ukraine, without the NATO safety umbrella.

This is why both Finland and Sweden realized that even neutrality is dangerous and applied for NATO membership.

Moreover, NATO safety and EU trade relations are the prerequisites for prosperity.

You only have to compare Serbia and Romania. Both started from the same point in the post-communist era, but Serbia chose to stay closer to russia, expressing little interest in the EU and no interest in NATO.

And today, the standard of living in Romania is almost twice better than in Serbia. See the attached graphs.

That's what comes together with NATO and EU memberships, and that's what Ukraine is aspiring for. Neither you nor putin can't deny them this aspiration.

�A fascist is someone who supports or promotes fascism,a system of government led by a dictator who typically rules by forcefully and often violently suppressing opposition and criticism,controlling all industry and commerce,and promoting nationalism and often racism�

This is the exact definition of the modern Russian empire.

Russians are not fascists.

Russians are not only fascists, they are also rashists, terrorists and war criminals. Moreover, this applies to almost 2/3 of the population of Russia.

Russian government,Putin,comes close to the definition of a fascist,but is just a man who doesn't want to accept or understand and trying to stop something that can no longer be stopped,and this thing is called NATO.

Putin is a war criminal and a terrorist, he drowned Ukraine in the blood of genocide. On the Putin issued an arrest by an international court.