I agree that the russian troll farm didn't exist back in the day and some of the decisions may have come out of good intentions (exemplifying the law of unintended consequences, as I said above).

However, these days, the russian troll farm is pushing hard the climate change topic, to make sure Russia remains dominant on the energy market (speaking about the ultimate hypochrisy  )

Here are some examples of memes, targeting the public opinion, as a way to influence politicians (from US, but I'm sure you have your fair share in EU)

But I don't want a second Chernobyl.

Quote from: Wilm on April 11, 2023, 13:44

But I don't want a second Chernobyl.

Forget Chernobyl. Now such nuclear power plants are no longer being built, modern plants are much more reliable and safer.
For example, the Russians are constantly shelling the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant in Ukraine, disconnecting it from the power grid, storing ammunition on its territory, but the station is still standing, although for some reason the whole world does not care about it.
At the expense of Chernobyl, the accident was then the result of experiments conducted by the Kremlin on Ukrainian soil. I can't say that it was a planned genocide of Ukrainians, but I heard that experiments were simply made at this station for the dissertation of some official in Moscow. Accordingly, the station was loaded beyond its capabilities. Further, the USSR tried to hide everything from the world as much as possible, as a result, the necessary assistance was not received in a timely manner.

And when the Russians threaten to use nuclear weapons today, they are at the same time threatening the countries around which they want to make the Russian Empire "great again". A paradox in itself.

Quote from: stoker2014 on April 12, 2023, 02:54

Quote from: Wilm on April 11, 2023, 15:56

And when the Russians threaten to use nuclear weapons today, they are at the same time threatening the countries around which they want to make the Russian Empire "great again". A paradox in itself.

The great empire in Russian concerns only the titular nation, only Russians by nationality. All other occupied peoples in this empire as slaves, who are not sorry. Yes, and the Russians do not feel sorry for their own nation, in Russia there are only 2 cities in which the elect live, these are Moscow and St. Petersburg, these are the centers of the Russian empire. Now in Russia, the mobilization of the population for the war in Ukraine, in Moscow and St. Petersburg, few people are taken, driven to slaughter, mainly peoples of other nationalities or Russians by nationality from other cities.
Russia is a horde, originates from the Mongol-Tatar yoke, nothing has changed there. This empire lives only through murder, terrorism, occupation, enslavement and robbery. In this she sees her greatness.
How do you see your energy security without nuclear power plants?

Personally, I am opposed to such generalizations. I believe that the majority of Russians - just like us - want peaceful coexistence. The discord is sown by those who in their narcissism strive for power, influence and more and more money. All over the globe. And these people try to push dictatorial measures so that they get even more power.

You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place. It's not that I take side of Russia but sure as hell the Western world is guilty here as well. Nobody cared when the Ukranian army was bombarding houses and people in the East of Ukraine because, hey, it was a pro-western government. Same as being lied to that the Western world have no part in this conflict while the leaked documents completely say the contrary. It goes way beyond sending weapons. All political play.
But I guess if the western world wants to wage war against russia then the split in the world community (everybody is taking sides now) actually started when the Westen world continued to work their way up east, USA, EU and NATO. History will tell and I know a lot of people don't see it now but for me it's pretty clear.
But good luck with destroying Russia. The world might be a better place without it, but I guess China is next and then maybe India until everybody lives as the USA and the EU dictates us how to live.
It worked also very well in Irak, Libia, Afghanistan and each country that the Western world had invaded and left in rubbles. They all had to be liberated and what paradises they have become

Russia has been identified as one of the main countries attempting to interfere in Australia's democracy, with intelligence agencies monitoring continuing efforts by Moscow to influence politics here.

A current intelligence source and a government source have confirmed the country's domestic spy agency, ASIO, has recently investigated at least one major effort to back pro-Russian figures for an unspecified Australian political contest.

Most details of the conspiracy remain hidden, but the ABC has confirmed it involved an individual based in Australia with close links to President Vladmir Putin's regime.

... "The point of difference between Russia and China is that Russia is an opportunistic interferer in elections anywhere in the Western world but, particularly, focusing on Five-Eyes [an intelligence-sharing network that includes Australia] and EU destabilisation".

Quote from: SVH on April 12, 2023, 14:46

You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place. It's not that I take side of Russia but sure as hell the Western world is guilty here as well. Nobody cared when the Ukranian army was bombarding houses and people in the East of Ukraine because, hey, it was a pro-western government. Same as being lied to that the Western world have no part in this conflict while the leaked documents completely say the contrary. It goes way beyond sending weapons. All political play.
But I guess if the western world wants to wage war against russia then the split in the world community (everybody is taking sides now) actually started when the Westen world continued to work their way up east, USA, EU and NATO. History will tell and I know a lot of people don't see it now but for me it's pretty clear.
But good luck with destroying Russia. The world might be a better place without it, but I guess China is next and then maybe India until everybody lives as the USA and the EU dictates us how to live.
It worked also very well in Irak, Libia, Afghanistan and each country that the Western world had invaded and left in rubbles. They all had to be liberated and what paradises they have become

The problem is that Putin's aim for a very long time was to dismantle NATO and weaken the EU. He has systematically placed his puppets in as many leadership roles as possible, removed Britain from the EU, and controlled certain Western media (such as Fox News where he and Murdoch have had a long standing 'friendship') through election interference and other nefarious means.  This has been well documented by international Intelligence organizations, and whistleblowers from past organizations such as Cambridge Analytica.

I understand your comments about those middle east countries, but in most cases that was a different administration with different agendas.

But what do we do about Putin's ever-mounting control over democratic countries? Doesn't this remind you of the rise of the 1930s dictators? Didn't we learn from history that they should have been stopped well before world war started?

What you are saying may sound like fair and even rhetoric (repeated many times from elsewhere) - but all of our democratic freedoms are at stake. Yours included.



And its not just the EU or USA - it was here too. Its worldwide. Doesn't that scare the bejeebies out of you?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russia-foreign-interference-australian-election/100819910

Quote

Russia has been identified as one of the main countries attempting to interfere in Australia's democracy, with intelligence agencies monitoring continuing efforts by Moscow to influence politics here.

A current intelligence source and a government source have confirmed the country's domestic spy agency, ASIO, has recently investigated at least one major effort to back pro-Russian figures for an unspecified Australian political contest.

Most details of the conspiracy remain hidden, but the ABC has confirmed it involved an individual based in Australia with close links to President Vladmir Putin's regime.

... "The point of difference between Russia and China is that Russia is an opportunistic interferer in elections anywhere in the Western world but, particularly, focusing on Five-Eyes [an intelligence-sharing network that includes Australia] and EU destabilisation".

Don't stop (or 'destroy' as you said) Russia - stop Putin and his propaganda machine.

.

Quote from: SVH on April 12, 2023, 14:46

You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place.

This is BS.
NATO is not expanding. NATO is joined.
NATO didn't expand in Finland last month. Finland decided to join the alliance.

There was never a promise, let alone a treaty denying the right of any other sovereign country, be it from east or west, to join NATO. There is no such thing.

Your are falling hard for the russian propaganda, mouthing Putin's words.

Moreover, you are deliberately confusing a popular uprising with a coup d'etat, falling, again, for the same russian propaganda.

Remind them that their are proud of their 1918 bolshevik revolution, not of their 1918 coup d'etat. 

Quote from: SVH on April 12, 2023, 14:46

You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place.

This is BS.
NATO is not expanding. NATO is joined.
NATO didn't expand in Finland last month. Finland decided to join the alliance.

There was never a promise, let alone a treaty denying the right of any other sovereign country, be it from east or west, to join NATO. There is no such thing.

Your are falling hard for the russian propaganda, mouthing Putin's words.

You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place. It's not that I take side of Russia but sure as hell the Western world is guilty here as well. Nobody cared when the Ukranian army was bombarding houses and people in the East of Ukraine because, hey, it was a pro-western government. Same as being lied to that the Western world have no part in this conflict while the leaked documents completely say the contrary. It goes way beyond sending weapons. All political play.

But I guess if the western world wants to wage war against russia then the split in the world community (everybody is taking sides now) actually started when the Westen world continued to work their way up east, USA, EU and NATO. History will tell and I know a lot of people don't see it now but for me it's pretty clear.
But good luck with destroying Russia. The world might be a better place without it, but I guess China is next and then maybe India until everybody lives as the USA and the EU dictates us how to live.
It worked also very well in Irak, Libia, Afghanistan and each country that the Western world had invaded and left in rubbles. They all had to be liberated and what paradises they have become