Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 142413 times)

stoker2014 · « **Reply #900 on:** July 23, 2023, 10:53 »

Quote from: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 23, 2023, 10:09

This should settle some different opinions... i google and find interesting these relaxing and calming exercises:

A) Take a break. Focus on your breathing. Listen to music.
B) Spend some time in nature. Try active relaxation. Think of somewhere else.
C) Try guided meditation. Get creative.

First you need to give Biden a good pendel and kick ass to start working. After that I will take your advice.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #901 on:** July 25, 2023, 13:38 »

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html
German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive.
The Bundeswehr has criticised the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the counteroffensive, stating that they are using the skills acquired during training abroad incorrectly.
The German military considers the division of combat units one of the main disadvantages of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They remark that "a joint battle leadership is not recognizable".

Not only does this "increase the risk of friendly fire", but it also leads to "manoeuvring elements lacking in focus [because the soldiers are trying] to build up [their] own momentum or establish fire superiority".

In other words, as long as Ukraine divides the brigades which have undergone training in the West into groups of 10-30 soldiers, isolated from the rest of the troops, neither Western training, nor superior armament, nor large quantity of manpower will be of any use.

In addition to this, Bundeswehr also criticised the training of experienced Ukrainian soldiers, who allegedly learn the principles of Western training worse than others, or do not participate in it at all.

It is stated in the document that the command staff sometimes demonstrates "considerable deficiencies in leadership and in the application of management processes at the respective level, which sometimes leads to wrong and dangerous decisions".
These factors – the separation of combat units and absence of proper training of command staff – may explain the slow advancement of the Ukrainian forces during the counteroffensive.
_________

Or maybe the Germans should come to Ukraine and show how to fight the Russians? Instead of telling there from under the NATO umbrella what Ukraine should do and how to do it.
__________

I am posting the story of a soldier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine about training in Germany under the guidance of US instructors:

• There were many fighters with combat experience in the unit, but the program was still made as for recruits.
• Classes lasted for 6 hours, until lunch. Most of it was theory. After dinner, it was frankly not her to do.
• Shootings were carried out once a month. Shooting at targets at 100-200-300 meters, for everything about everything - three stores.
• A week taught how to use maps and give coordinates for strikes. The Americans did not use electronic applications - everything was the old fashioned way, with compasses and pieces of paper. They looked at smartphones and tablets with suspicion: “the equipment will fail, but the papers are always with you.” Familiar, isn't it?
• A similar situation with UAVs: according to the author, US soldiers have no concept of using copters at all. “They don’t even have an analogue of the Chinese Mavic 3, it was a shock for us.”
• Artillery adjustment exercises were interesting, but also not suitable for the Ukrainian conflict: “for them, the challenge of artillery is to suppress one target and the mission is completed. This concept is unlikely to work for us, with a limited amount of ammunition, and a huge number of targets".

$:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

stoker2014 · « **Reply #902 on:** July 25, 2023, 13:48 »

German stockers! Tell the Bundeswehr that the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not have modern aircraft and helicopters, and therefore the Armed Forces of Ukraine are forced to gnaw through the defenses and minefields of Russians using the technologies of the First World War. And ask the Bundeswehr if he will send his German soldiers on the offensive without air support?
$:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

stoker2014 · « **Reply #903 on:** July 25, 2023, 13:53 »

"The Speaker of the House of Representatives has announced that they will initiate impeachment of Mr. Biden for acts of corruption when he was Vice President."

What has Biden already done there? $:-\$

Big Toe · « **Reply #904 on:** July 25, 2023, 18:52 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 25, 2023, 13:38

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html
German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive.
...

I cannot read the article since it is behind a paywall, but from what I can read, it looks like this was a secret paper (Geheimdokument) that was not meant to publicly critize the Ukrainian army.

I think it is a totally normal procedure for an army to analyse conflicts in which the army's country is indirectly involved. Particularly if the side supported in the conflict is currently not performing as well as was hoped, so that the army or it's government can perhaps offer further training or advice or deliver weapons that have been identified as important for improving the performance.

The document shouldn't have been leaked, though.

It should also be noted that "Bild" is a tabloid with a somewhat tarnished reputation. They tend to exaggerate things.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #905 on:** July 26, 2023, 02:15 »

Yes, the information somehow got to the journalists. The information was originally not for the media.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #906 on:** July 26, 2023, 05:04 »

https://youtu.be/GpeHX5dOP_w

Ukrainian journalists asked Jake Sullivan uncomfortable questions about Ukraine.

A lot of people in Ukraine don't like Jake Sullivan, people think he works for putin.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #907 on:** July 26, 2023, 05:16 »

German opposition rejects criticism of Ukrainian counteroffensive

Roderich Kiesewetter, former Bundeswehr general (Armed Forces of Germany) and a defence spokesperson for the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), which is in opposition to the Scholz government, said he rejected criticism of the Ukrainian Defence Forces and accused Western partners of insufficient and untimely assistance to Ukraine.

Details: The politician alleged that the "document", which he has never seen, criticises Ukrainian methods of conducting an offensive that do not comply with the rules prescribed in textbooks, and are therefore not functional.

Quote: "I reject such criticism on principle, because we Germans, the Bundeswehr, are not in the trenches and therefore should not criticise while sitting in our warm chairs and without any information about the situation on the ground. Ukraine has to rely on its own experience and, in the end, make do with the very little material it receives for support."

Details: According to the official, Ukraine has to look for any weaknesses in Russian defence and cut off supply routes for Russian troops as much as possible. A real combined arms battle is impossible in these circumstances, as Ukraine lacks combat aircraft, anti-drone and air defence equipment, long-range weapons and, above all, sufficient ammunition.

The former German army general noted that the Bundeswehr would not have gone into battle without proper air defence and direct air support.

Moreover, Kiesewetter continued, it was the hesitation of partner states, especially Germany, that led to Ukraine losing for almost a year, while Russia was able to significantly expand its defence lines and dig deep trenches. Consequently, it is now much more difficult for Ukraine to move forward with the liberation of its territories.

"Our delays in supplying tanks, fighter jets, attack helicopters, drones and long-range munitions such as ATACMS and Taurus cruise missiles, as well as insufficient production of artillery ammunition, mean that Ukraine is making slow progress and suffering more casualties. Because the time factor is crucial," the politician said.

He is convinced that the partners have provided Ukraine with too few weapons and too late. And this harms Ukrainian soldiers, who now have to overcome powerful defences. Perhaps the Ukrainian army is not acting according to Bundeswehr textbooks, but is fighting according to its own experience and understanding, in accordance with the real conditions on the frontline, which is more than 1,500 km long, the former general said.

"It is very bold to criticise when Germany is to blame for the slow progress: Ukraine's biggest problem is that it has lost a year due to the delay in arms deliveries," said the representative of the CDU, the largest opposition party in the German parliament.

He recalled that the terror against civilian Ukrainians does not stop, missile and drone attacks continue daily, and air defence is unable to protect civilians in the first place. But despite all this, the brave Ukrainian soldiers managed to liberate as much territory in five weeks as Russia occupied in six months.

"It depends on the states that support Ukraine how successful and fast its liberation offensive will be. We can immediately send ATACMS, F16s, Taurus and other main battle tanks. This is more sensible than sitting in an armchair and commenting on the progress of the frontline, which we in Germany cannot understand at all. Moreover, we would not send our troops into such difficult situations. It's a shame," the German deputy concluded.
______

Excellent criticism of the Democrats, the EU and NATO!

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #908 on:** July 26, 2023, 05:59 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 25, 2023, 13:38

https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html
German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive.
The Bundeswehr has criticised the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the counteroffensive, stating that they are using the skills acquired during training abroad incorrectly.
The German military considers the division of combat units one of the main disadvantages of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They remark that "a joint battle leadership is not recognizable".

Not only does this "increase the risk of friendly fire", but it also leads to "manoeuvring elements lacking in focus [because the soldiers are trying] to build up [their] own momentum or establish fire superiority".

In other words, as long as Ukraine divides the brigades which have undergone training in the West into groups of 10-30 soldiers, isolated from the rest of the troops, neither Western training, nor superior armament, nor large quantity of manpower will be of any use.

In addition to this, Bundeswehr also criticised the training of experienced Ukrainian soldiers, who allegedly learn the principles of Western training worse than others, or do not participate in it at all.

It is stated in the document that the command staff sometimes demonstrates "considerable deficiencies in leadership and in the application of management processes at the respective level, which sometimes leads to wrong and dangerous decisions".
These factors – the separation of combat units and absence of proper training of command staff – may explain the slow advancement of the Ukrainian forces during the counteroffensive.
_________

Or maybe the Germans should come to Ukraine and show how to fight the Russians? Instead of telling there from under the NATO umbrella what Ukraine should do and how to do it.
__________

I am posting the story of a soldier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine about training in Germany under the guidance of US instructors:

• There were many fighters with combat experience in the unit, but the program was still made as for recruits.
• Classes lasted for 6 hours, until lunch. Most of it was theory. After dinner, it was frankly not her to do.
• Shootings were carried out once a month. Shooting at targets at 100-200-300 meters, for everything about everything - three stores.
• A week taught how to use maps and give coordinates for strikes. The Americans did not use electronic applications - everything was the old fashioned way, with compasses and pieces of paper. They looked at smartphones and tablets with suspicion: “the equipment will fail, but the papers are always with you.” Familiar, isn't it?
• A similar situation with UAVs: according to the author, US soldiers have no concept of using copters at all. “They don’t even have an analogue of the Chinese Mavic 3, it was a shock for us.”
• Artillery adjustment exercises were interesting, but also not suitable for the Ukrainian conflict: “for them, the challenge of artillery is to suppress one target and the mission is completed. This concept is unlikely to work for us, with a limited amount of ammunition, and a huge number of targets".

$:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

Your intentions here are completely unclear to me and what you are doing here again actually only shows how unserious and arbitrary your conclusions are.

You refer to a single report in a questionable German tabloid (probably because this report fits exactly into your weird world view) and construct a general German opinion of the Bundeswehr.

Apart from the fact that the origin of the paper is unclear, the opinion of most military experts and Bundeswehr officials in other public media is exactly opposite to this paper: Most of them admit that the military aid came too hesitantly and that Russia therefore had enough time to build up its defensive positions.

If you don't have a clue and have obviously completely lost the overview, then please hold back a little with the permanent country bashing in a certain direction.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #909 on:** July 26, 2023, 06:16 »

RalfLiebhold, I don't see any official statements from the Bundeswehr yet. Information hit the Internet, which means there was a reaction.
If you do not agree with my opinion, you can not read me.

p.s. Roderich Kiesewetter would not say all this if everything was clean and beautiful in the German information space.
Ukraine is at war not only with Russians on the battlefield, but also with Russian agents in other countries of the world.

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #910 on:** July 26, 2023, 07:24 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 06:16

RalfLiebhold, I don't see any official statements from the Bundeswehr yet. Information hit the Internet, which means there was a reaction.
If you do not agree with my opinion, you can not read me.

p.s. Roderich Kiesewetter would not say all this if everything was clear and beautiful in the German information space.
Ukraine is at war not only with Russians on the battlefield, but also with Russian agents in other countries of the world.

I continue to not know what you are alluding to here.

There are numerous past statements by Bundeswehr officials that paint a different picture than this ominous paper. So this paper does not describe, as you interpret it, an official German opinion. It is in the nature of things that there are also dissenting opinions, and this is part of a democratic, open society.

And yes, the space of information in Germany is completely in order. It is obvious that an information space that allows different opinions is not necessarily clear and beautiful.

It's probably actually because I really "can't read you"

stoker2014 · « **Reply #911 on:** July 26, 2023, 08:41 »

Quote from: RalfLiebhold on July 26, 2023, 07:24

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 06:16
RalfLiebhold, I don't see any official statements from the Bundeswehr yet. Information hit the Internet, which means there was a reaction.
If you do not agree with my opinion, you can not read me.

p.s. Roderich Kiesewetter would not say all this if everything was clear and beautiful in the German information space.
Ukraine is at war not only with Russians on the battlefield, but also with Russian agents in other countries of the world.

I continue to not know what you are alluding to here.

There are numerous past statements by Bundeswehr officials that paint a different picture than this ominous paper. So this paper does not describe, as you interpret it, an official German opinion. It is in the nature of things that there are also dissenting opinions, and this is part of a democratic, open society.

And yes, the space of information in Germany is completely in order. It is obvious that an information space that allows different opinions is not necessarily clear and beautiful.

It's probably actually because I really "can't read you"

My point is that the Bundeswehr has leaked information that is not in the public domain. From this information it follows that in Germany there are forces that want to denigrate the Armed Forces of Ukraine and force Ukraine to sign a surrender - to give Crimea, Donbass and the land corridor to Crimea to the Russians. Some Democrats are also nurturing such ideas. All these agents of Putin want to say that the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot fight and NATO is wasting money and weapons helping Ukraine. Although, in fact, the success of the Armed Forces of Ukraine directly depends on the volume and range of arms supplies.
No one is under any illusions about Germany, it is enough that the Kremlin agent Merkel did everything for Putin to occupy Ukraine. And this Merkel of yours is still at large and is not in prison, where she belongs.

And there is no need to cover up the work of KGB agents with the word democracy. Russian agents only need to be liquidated, according to the laws of war.

cobalt · « **Reply #912 on:** July 26, 2023, 09:09 »

You have the patience of a saint Ralf.

The more I read, the more I wonder if some people are actually not interested in getting Ukraine the help it needs.

Not that anything we write here makes a difference to the horrible war.

edit - typo

stoker2014 · « **Reply #913 on:** July 26, 2023, 09:26 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 26, 2023, 09:09

You have the patience of a saint Ralf.

The more I read, the less I wonder if some people are actually not interested in getting Ukraine the help it needs.

Not that anything we write here makes a difference to the horrible war.

That's the problem, that Ukraine does not receive the necessary assistance in sufficient volume. Perhaps in your media they tell you otherwise, or rather they lie.

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #914 on:** July 26, 2023, 10:20 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 26, 2023, 09:09

You have the patience of a saint Ralf.

The more I read, the less I wonder if some people are actually not interested in getting Ukraine the help it needs.

Not that anything we write here makes a difference to the horrible war.

Thank you Cobalt, but after Stoker's last postings, my patience of a saint has now expired.
Let's leave him alone again.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #915 on:** July 26, 2023, 10:33 »

Quote from: RalfLiebhold on July 26, 2023, 10:20

Let's leave him alone again.

+100

stoker2014 · « **Reply #916 on:** July 27, 2023, 04:51 »

British defence minister insists Ukraine’s counter-offensive is not failing
James Heappey dismissed concerns that the operation is stalling after a leaked German military report questioned Kyiv's tactics

Ukraine’s counter-offensive is progressing according to a plan worked out with Britain and the US over the winter, the UK’s armed forces minister has said.

James Heappey dismissed concerns that the operation is stalling after a leaked German military assessment questioned Ukraine’s progress and tactics.

Mr Heappey said Kyiv was being “appropriately cautious” in refusing to send large numbers of men and Western-supplied weapons into dense Russian minefields.

The Ukrainian military, he said, was holding back enough firepower to make a breakthrough at the right time.

“Ukraine is meeting our expectations at the moment. They are broadly delivering the plan that they worked out with us, and the Americans and others, over the last winter,” he told The Telegraph during an interview in Busan, South Korea.

“This is not a Hollywood movie. There was not going to be a moment when the tanks started to roll, and the music started to play, and a war montage played out and then - at the end of it - victory by September.”

It came as a Western official also hit back at claims that Ukraine is making slow progress. The source said Kyiv was still waiting to commit a second wave of its forces on the best possible avenue for attack.

“We’re still waiting for the Ukrainians to commit a second echelon against whichever axis they decide upon,” the official said.

Ukraine is currently attacking in three directions: in Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Bakhmut.

On Wednesday night, US officials said the main thrust of Ukraine’s counter-offensive had finally begun in Zaporizhzhia, with thousands of men and Western arms committed to the assault.

‘Painstaking progress’
The official rejected the leaked assessment from the Bundeswehr, which claimed Ukraine was pushing forward too cautiously and failing to implement tactics its soldiers learned in Western boot camps.

“I don’t think that’s particularly fair,” they said. “The Ukrainians will use the equipment as they see best and it’s really hard to run a commentary when you’re sat thousands of miles from the front line.”

Mr Heappey also said Ukraine was acting wisely in keeping most of its brigades equipped with Western kit “hidden from sight” and out of the fight.

“It is very easy to lose tens of thousands of lives just trying to get through the minefields and then you have nothing left with which to break through once you are there,” he said.

“So, I think the painstaking progress they are making is necessary, and then when they get through the obstacle belts they have still got plenty of combat power ready to use to break through.”

Ukrainian soldiers are having to dismount from Western armoured vehicles and remove mines from fields by hand, the Western official said, partly as a result of a lack of demining vehicles.

Leaders in Kyiv have admitted the offensive has made only limited advances, liberating some 150 square miles, or about 0.3 per cent of the territory gained by Russia since the invasion last year.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #917 on:** July 27, 2023, 04:51 »

Russia will ‘never be a pushover’
In parts, the Russian defences are almost 19 miles deep. Alongside shortages in demining equipment, Ukraine also faces shortfalls in crucial airpower. Kyiv’s soldiers have been cut down by strafing from Russian helicopters as they attempt to advance.

The leaked German military assessment claimed that Kyiv was failing to implement Nato-standard tactics by attacking in units composed of too few men - and not simultaneously engaging infantry, artillery and tanks in “combined arms warfare”.

It blamed Ukraine for promoting combat veterans over unproven soldiers who had been trained at Western boot camps.

Mr Heappey, who is a front-runner to replace Ben Wallace as defence secretary, defended the Ukrainian advance, saying it had to be acknowledged that Kyiv was up against defences that had been prepared for six months.

While Russia’s professional army is greatly diminished and relies more on demoralised conscripts, Kyiv still faces an adversary that has a strong fighting tradition and will “never be a pushover, no matter the odds,” he said.

The minister, who is in Busan for the 70th anniversary of the armistice that halted the Korean War in 1953, said he would raise the prospect of Seoul making a bigger contribution to Ukraine’s war effort in conversations with Korean officials.

Pressure has been mounting on South Korea, which has one of the world’s biggest stockpiles of ammunition and a vibrant defence industry, to supply arms to Ukraine that it desperately needs.

Kyiv’s ambassador to Seoul recently told the BBC that South Korean weapons could “change the course of the war,” but it has so far limited its support to joining international sanctions and providing more than $200 million (£155 million) in humanitarian aid.

“If the Korean government is able and willing to provide more to Ukraine that would be incredibly welcome,” said Mr Heappey.

But he recognised that South Korea, which faces constant warmongering from the nuclear-armed North, stockpiled munitions and maintained manufacturing capacity as it faced “an existential threat that they consider to be live and present every day.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/26/minister-james-heappey-ukraine-counter-offensive-succeeding/

stoker2014 · « **Reply #918 on:** July 27, 2023, 04:52 »

Here again about the information that was received from German intelligence.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/25/german-military-ukraine-counter-offensive-too-slow/

stoker2014 · « **Reply #919 on:** July 27, 2023, 04:54 »

I don’t quite understand what James Heappey is talking about, what kind of plans are these without aviation and ATACMS missiles?....
And what can be achieved without aviation?....

stoker2014 · « **Reply #920 on:** July 27, 2023, 04:55 »

While NATO and Biden are thinking about whether to give Ukraine aviation and missiles or not, the Russians are not sitting still, they are preparing. And this is clearly to the benefit of the Russians.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #921 on:** July 27, 2023, 07:06 »

Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022.

This law was drafted and submitted by the Republican Party for Biden's signature. And who here constantly says that the Republicans are Putin's friends ....

Zero Talent · « **Reply #922 on:** July 27, 2023, 09:33 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 07:06

Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022.

This law was drafted and submitted by the Republican Party for Biden's signature. And who here constantly says that the Republicans are Putin's friends ....

The bill passed in the House of Representatives by a vote of 417–10 on April 28, 2022.

The ten representatives, all from the Republican Party, who voted against the bill were: Andy Biggs of Arizona, Dan Bishop of North Carolina, Warren Davidson of Ohio, Matt Gaetz of Florida, Paul Gosar of Arizona, Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Thomas Massie of Kentucky, Ralph Norman of South Carolina, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania and Tom Tiffany of Wisconsin.

All these are republican extremists. Extremely vocal and influential in the MAGA world.
Their number grew stronger on the next bill, when 70+ opposed additional aid for Ukraine. Again, all of them were MAGA "republicans".

When trump will win the nomination, this number will become a majority. The party will rally, again, behind their leader's isolationist view of the world (as they did in 2016).
And then you will kiss goodbye to any subsequent aid for Ukraine.

You are failing to ackowledge that all these bills had unanimity from the democrats and were endorsed and signed into law by a democrat president.

But you can continue to dream about what the GoP once was (or what it could be without trump's ideology) ...

In reality, Ukraine's best bet is a democrat majority, and a democrat in the White House.
Like it or not.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #923 on:** July 27, 2023, 11:02 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 27, 2023, 09:33

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 07:06
Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022.

This law was drafted and submitted by the Republican Party for Biden's signature. And who here constantly says that the Republicans are Putin's friends ....

The bill passed in the House of Representatives by a vote of 417–10 on April 28, 2022.

The ten representatives, all from the Republican Party, who voted against the bill were: Andy Biggs of Arizona, Dan Bishop of North Carolina, Warren Davidson of Ohio, Matt Gaetz of Florida, Paul Gosar of Arizona, Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Thomas Massie of Kentucky, Ralph Norman of South Carolina, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania and Tom Tiffany of Wisconsin.

All these are republican extremists. Extremely vocal and influential in the MAGA world.
Their number grew stronger on the next bill, when 70+ opposed additional aid for Ukraine. Again, all of them were MAGA "republicans".

When trump will win the nomination, this number will become a majority. The party will rally, again, behind their leader's isolationist view of the world (as they did in 2016).
And then you will kiss goodbye to any subsequent aid for Ukraine.

You are failing to ackowledge that all these bills had unanimity from the democrats and were endorsed and signed into law by a democrat president.

But you can continue to dream about what the GoP once was (or what it could be without trump's ideology) ...
In reality, Ukraine's best bet is a democrat majority, and a democrat in the White House.
Like it or not.

For Ukraine, the best president is Mike Pence. Naturally, Ukraine is forced to work with Biden, but this does not mean that the Ukrainians are happy with him.
Zero Talent, I gave the facts, and you are engaged in pre-election political campaigning and anti-advertising of the Republicans. You have already decided everything for them.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #924 on:** July 27, 2023, 11:10 »

The International Fencing Federation (FIE) decided to disqualify Ukrainian Olga Harlan after her victory over Russian athlete Anna Smirnova.

Read more here who this Russian Anna Smirnova is.
https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1684542883901181954

The photo features Anna Smirnova, the Russian fencer who Ukrainian Olha #Kharlan refused to shake hands with at the World Championships after winning a fair bout. As you can see, she openly admires the Russian army, which is killing Ukrainians and destroying our cities. The International Fencing Federation disqualified the Ukrainian representative for not shaking hands with the Russian.

@FIE_fencing
, should this be taken as a position? Doesn't Russian money smell of blood?

Ukrainian fencing star Olha Kharlan refuses to shake hands with Russian opponent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo7Ai8BMTUU

Moment furious Ukrainian fencing star refuses to shake hands with Russian opponent over Vladimir Putin's invasion of her country. Olga Kharlan beat Russia's Anna Smirnova on the red piste during the world...

This is the moment a Ukrainian fencer refused to shake hands with her Russian opponent today after defeating her in a bout, prompting a sulking sit-in protest.

Ukraine's four-time world sabre champion Olha Kharlan faced off against Russian Anna Smirnova on Thursday at the world championships in Milan, Italy.

Kharlan came out victorious, but as Smirnova stepped forward at the end of the bout to shake hands, the Ukrainian instead held out her blade to stop her approaching.

While it wasn't picked up on the microphones clearly over the sound of cheers from the stands, Kharlan - holding her blue and yellow painted helmet to one side - was also seen exchanging words with her opponent after beating her 15-7 in the bout.

Despite the Ukrainian saying ahead of the contest that she would refuse to shake Smirnova's hand, the Russian struck a bemused figure on the piste, before staging a sulking ten-minute protest over the snub.

The Ukrainian sports ministry late Wednesday changed its previous policy from barring athletes from facing Russians or Belarusians competing as neutrals.

The new policy says Ukrainians are barred from facing those athletes who 'represent the Russian Federation and Belarus'.

Smirnova was competing as a neutral.
_________

Glory to Ukraine! There should be only fire contact with the Russians, there should not be any handshakes. And it is very strange that sports organizations support Russians. How can you shake hands with an enemy and someone who does not deserve respect.

MicrostockGroup Sponsors

Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 142413 times)

stoker2014

stoker2014

stoker2014

stoker2014

Big Toe

stoker2014

stoker2014

stoker2014

RalfLiebhold

stoker2014

RalfLiebhold

stoker2014

cobalt

stoker2014

RalfLiebhold

stoker2014

stoker2014

stoker2014

stoker2014

stoker2014

stoker2014

stoker2014

Zero Talent

stoker2014

stoker2014

Related Topics

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors