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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Uncle Pete on April 04, 2023, 15:28

Title: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 04, 2023, 15:28
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 05, 2023, 14:25
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.


You can do better Pete :)

Such as:

Everyone that likes Trump is:
* a right fascist extremist red neck
* has an IQ of 60 or lower
* a racist at the core of the heart
* male chauvinist pig
* denies climate change
* only protect rich people and don't care about poor people
* is an egoist that wants to place borders just to protect their own way of living


Everyone that likes Biden is:
* an ignorant, naive and arrogant communist prick
* has an IQ of 60 or lower
* can't distinct cultural diffences amongst groups of people
* doesn't understand there are differences between men and women or other sexes
* climate hoaxer saying it's all caused by man kind doing
* wants to take all money from the rich and divide all amongst the poor
* wants to invite the whole world so everybody is poor equally

Or something like that :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 05, 2023, 14:57
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 05, 2023, 15:06
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I do remember a certain Adolf that was in prison and then became chancellor later. But maybe they changed the constitution afterwards.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: DiscreetDuck on April 05, 2023, 16:10
Are those who govern still the presidents?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 05, 2023, 16:35
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

You made me curious about Germany. The right is not implicitly revoked.
The loss of the right to be elected happens when this right is explicitly revoked by the court, or the felon is incarcerated.

The following are ineligible for election:

a.) those disqualified pursuant to Article 6a(1) of the European Elections Act,
b.) those who, by order of a court, have been declared ineligible for election or incapable of holding public office; and:
c.) those who, without being German nationals, are Germans within the meaning of Article 116(1) of the Constitution and have acquired this status by renouncing German citizenship pursuant to the Nationality Act of 22 February 1995 (BGBl. IS.65). (Article 6b(3) of the European Elections Act).

and the Article 6 says:
 (6) The following persons shall not stand as candidates for the European Parliament:
 1) a person who has been divested of his or her active legal capacity with regard to the right to vote;
 2) a person who has been convicted of a crime by a court and is serving sentence in a penal institution;
 3) a person in active service in the Defence Forces.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 05, 2023, 16:44
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I do remember a certain Adolf that was in prison and then became chancellor later. But maybe they changed the constitution afterwards.

Yes, and until someone woke me up (can I use that term?) Hitler began Mein Kampf while imprisoned following his failed coup in Munich in November 1923 and a trial in February 1924 for high treason, in which he received a sentence of five years. While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected. The point is, until I was well out of college, I was of the mistaken belief that he was just a politician who let power go to his head and got some distorted views. WRONG: he was always a bigot and racist.

As for the other part about left or right, and all the polarized viewpoints, yes,, someone would have to include all of that to be fair. I happened to not be of either side and don't follow a party line and don't vote according to pressure from the Union or associations or any groups that might have their own stake in the politics. I happen to look at records for individuals, when I can.

This will anger either the left or right and of course, the far and fringe of either of those. Because they want loyal, mindless followers, not open minded free thinkers. My lefty friends call me a right winger and my right wing friends think I'm too left.

One far right idiot started screaming at me "You're A Democrat"  He's brainless, (former friend now) and the typical person who learned all his debate skills from talk radio and Fox news. My far left friend posts Trump hate messages daily on FB. But we're still friends because he's otherwise an intelligent person. Oh yes, he listens to NPR all day long, getting his Socialist propaganda and all about how to save the planet programming.

I'm an organic gardener, no chemicals on my yard either. I feed birds and have flowers for "pollinators", including culturing milk weed for the Monarch butterflies. I don't hunt, I and not a gun collector, but I support the right of free citizens, who are verified and stable, to own firearms. I believe that a woman has a right to choose what she does with her own body, and politicians should be legislating that free choice. I'm a fiscal conservative and don't think Socialism, tax and spend or Big Brother is the answer to how a free society should function.

Anyway... you're right. Here's what's wrong with the US choices for President. There's no place to vote None of the Above find us someone suitable for the position.  ;D

Lennon (the Beatles version) did not say we should elect a businessman, that's a fake quote. What he did say was: "...that he was sick of "being *removed coarse language* around by men in suits sitting on their fat arses in the City."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Fred on April 06, 2023, 05:44
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I think most places you are presumed innocent until elected.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 06, 2023, 08:41
They write that they want to give Trump 136 years in prison.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 06, 2023, 12:43
They write that they want to give Trump 136 years in prison.

Only the Democrats!

There are some problems in that the statute of limitations has expired and the fraud if they is any, was perpetrated against his own company. It cost him more to pay the money as it was claimed than if he had reported it in other ways. This is no slam dunk conviction.

It's possible that the idea is to distract and cause people to see him as a criminal. Yet somehow, his fund raising has set new records, since the indictment.

I don't know, it's certainly a strange situation. The trial doesn't look to be starting until January? Lots of room for speculation and accusations, from both sides.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 06, 2023, 13:16
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I do remember a certain Adolf that was in prison and then became chancellor later. But maybe they changed the constitution afterwards.

Yes, and until someone woke me up (can I use that term?) Hitler began Mein Kampf while imprisoned following his failed coup in Munich in November 1923 and a trial in February 1924 for high treason, in which he received a sentence of five years. While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected. The point is, until I was well out of college, I was of the mistaken belief that he was just a politician who let power go to his head and got some distorted views. WRONG: he was always a bigot and racist.

As for the other part about left or right, and all the polarized viewpoints, yes,, someone would have to include all of that to be fair. I happened to not be of either side and don't follow a party line and don't vote according to pressure from the Union or associations or any groups that might have their own stake in the politics. I happen to look at records for individuals, when I can.

This will anger either the left or right and of course, the far and fringe of either of those. Because they want loyal, mindless followers, not open minded free thinkers. My lefty friends call me a right winger and my right wing friends think I'm too left.

One far right idiot started screaming at me "You're A Democrat"  He's brainless, (former friend now) and the typical person who learned all his debate skills from talk radio and Fox news. My far left friend posts Trump hate messages daily on FB. But we're still friends because he's otherwise an intelligent person. Oh yes, he listens to NPR all day long, getting his Socialist propaganda and all about how to save the planet programming.

I'm an organic gardener, no chemicals on my yard either. I feed birds and have flowers for "pollinators", including culturing milk weed for the Monarch butterflies. I don't hunt, I and not a gun collector, but I support the right of free citizens, who are verified and stable, to own firearms. I believe that a woman has a right to choose what she does with her own body, and politicians should be legislating that free choice. I'm a fiscal conservative and don't think Socialism, tax and spend or Big Brother is the answer to how a free society should function.

Anyway... you're right. Here's what's wrong with the US choices for President. There's no place to vote None of the Above find us someone suitable for the position.  ;D

Lennon (the Beatles version) did not say we should elect a businessman, that's a fake quote. What he did say was: "...that he was sick of "being *removed coarse language* around by men in suits sitting on their fat arses in the City."


I hear you. Some issue here regarding friends about thinking you are too right or too left.
The funny thing is though that when it comes to your left friends they all think alike on each subject as our my friends on the right. There must be some manuals around somewhere explaining how to think on each subject. Apparently you cannot think differently on multiple subjects if it deviates from the manual because then you are out or something :)

Must the brainwashing from both sides without people thinking for themselves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 06, 2023, 13:36
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I do remember a certain Adolf that was in prison and then became chancellor later. But maybe they changed the constitution afterwards.

True! But that was 90 years ago. And happened under the law at the time. The current Basic Law was created 16 years later.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cascoly on April 06, 2023, 13:50
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I think most places you are presumed innocent until elected.
in the US you can still run for president when convicted & in prison (altho people who have served their terms are denied the vote in many states).Eugen Debs did so in 1920, - instead we got Warren Harding (of teapot Dome fame) who ranked 40 out of 43 as of 2017  https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall (https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 06, 2023, 13:51
But okay, at least it seems to be possible to continue a political career even in Germany if you had a criminal record. Excerpt from the German Criminal Code:

§ 45
Loss of the ability to hold office, eligibility and the right to vote

(1) Any person convicted of a crime and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of at least one year shall lose the capacity to hold public office and to obtain rights from public elections for a period of five years.

How that would play out with the Chancellor now, I don't know. But as a legal layman, I would say that this is also possible here. Unless, as Zero Talent also quotes, that a court prevents that.

Apparently not much has changed. With Hitler, there were also more than 5 years between the imprisonment and the election as chancellor.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on April 06, 2023, 17:35
But okay, at least it seems to be possible to continue a political career even in Germany if you had a criminal record. Excerpt from the German Criminal Code:

§ 45
Loss of the ability to hold office, eligibility and the right to vote

(1) Any person convicted of a crime and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of at least one year shall lose the capacity to hold public office and to obtain rights from public elections for a period of five years.

How that would play out with the Chancellor now, I don't know. But as a legal layman, I would say that this is also possible here. Unless, as Zero Talent also quotes, that a court prevents that.

Apparently not much has changed. With Hitler, there were also more than 5 years between the imprisonment and the election as chancellor.

There is also the case of Dieter Althaus, who was Minister President in Thuringia, a German state, who was convicted of negiligent homicide for a skiing accident in Austria in 2009 and fined 33,000€. He stayed in office and even ran for office again later the same year. His party, the conservative CDU, lost the election by a landslide, though, so it may not have been the smartest decision to run for office again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Althaus

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 06, 2023, 18:15
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.

Oh goodie. A political thread.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 06, 2023, 18:23
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

Same here.

In Australia, one cannot run for public office if convicted of a crime, or subject to be sentenced, guilty of treason, or bankrupt or insolvent, or has connections to a foreign power. (Kind of rules out Trump on many levels ;D)

Its interesting that so many commentators, who are not necessarily arguing that he didn't commit fraud, say that the charges are too insignificant to charge a former president. I always thought our leaders and lawmakers should be held to a higher standard than everyone else. What happened??
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cascoly on April 06, 2023, 20:17
...While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected.

I have read widely on the rise of Nazism over many decades, so previous posts were no surprise. --
actually, Hitler was elected and came to power after the Reichstag fire which was blamed on a communist but later proved to be a nazi false flag operation
 

"In January 1933, Hindenburg reluctantly appointed Hitler as chancellor on the advice of Franz von Papen, a disgruntled former chancellor who believed the conservative bourgeois parties should ally with the * to keep the Communists out of power."  (a classic right wing powerplay --cf the Alien & Sedition acts from 1800 (anti-Jacobin 'communism' avant la lettre) and the Palmer raids (1919-20 - which put Debs in the prison ( from which he ran for president!) using the Espionage Act) 

among other miscarriages was when " unanimous Supreme Court upheld the Espionage Act in Schenck v. United States, when it ruled that the First Amendment did not protect pacifists who circulated antidraft literature from arrest under the act. "  https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-espionage-acts-constitutional-legacy The Espionage Act is still in force

"Justified on the false premise that the Communists were planning an uprising to overthrow the state, the Reichstag Fire Decree permitted the regime to arrest and incarcerate political opponents without specific charge, dissolve political organizations, and to suppress publications. It also gave the central government the authority to overrule state and local laws and overthrow state and local government"
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-reichstag-fire

Actually, while you & I disagree on many political topics, the only way I see to resolve them is over several evenings with bottles of Lagavullin (or local IPA if on a budget)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 07, 2023, 02:42
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.


You can do better Pete :)

Such as:

Everyone that likes Trump is:
* a right fascist extremist red neck
* has an IQ of 60 or lower
* a racist at the core of the heart
* male chauvinist pig
* denies climate change
* only protect rich people and don't care about poor people
* is an egoist that wants to place borders just to protect their own way of living


Everyone that likes Biden is:
* an ignorant, naive and arrogant communist prick
* has an IQ of 60 or lower
* can't distinct cultural diffences amongst groups of people
* doesn't understand there are differences between men and women or other sexes
* climate hoaxer saying it's all caused by man kind doing
* wants to take all money from the rich and divide all amongst the poor
* wants to invite the whole world so everybody is poor equally

Or something like that :)

You left out the 2 main issues: guns vs abortion.

If (wonder of wonders!) these two could ever be resolved, less people would cling so vehemently to their respective party, becoming more moderate and discerning, leaving the hatred and division that Pete mentioned above, to the minority extremists and hard left/right. Just a thought?

USA needs more independent (thinkers) voters, and to stop taking sides like they were at a football match. imho
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2023, 03:10
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: alan b traehern on April 07, 2023, 07:08
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on April 07, 2023, 10:54
...
the Reichstag fire which was blamed on a communist but later proved to be a nazi false flag operation...

That’s a popular misconception. It almost certainly wasn’t the * or the Communists but a Dutch anarcho-syndicalist who tried setting fire to lots of buildings before. The * just pounced on it and blamed the communists.

This podcast does a good job giving an overview (about 20 minutes in for the fire):

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/298-the-*-total-power/id1537788786?i=1000594525754

I don’t go along with some of the stuff on that podcast (anything about the UK tends to be very jingoistic) but the several episodes they do about the Nazi’s rise to power give a decent overview for anyone interested.

EDIT: LOL it's editing out n*zis from the URL, it goes where the star is
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 07, 2023, 12:18
...While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected.

Actually, while you & I disagree on many political topics, the only way I see to resolve them is over several evenings with bottles of Lagavullin (or local IPA if on a budget)

Probably not as much or as many as you might think. People on the left say I'm too far right and people on the right say I'm too far left. It's a matter of viewing point and perspective.  8)  Lagavullin is just right and fits my tastes. Ardbeg, Talisker or Highland Park.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 07, 2023, 12:47

You left out the 2 main issues: guns vs abortion.

If (wonder of wonders!) these two could ever be resolved, less people would cling so vehemently to their respective party, becoming more moderate and discerning, leaving the hatred and division that Pete mentioned above, to the minority extremists and hard left/right. Just a thought?

USA needs more independent (thinkers) voters, and to stop taking sides like they were at a football match. imho

Party politics has become a matter of religion. Following that kind of thinking, I'm condemned to languish Limbo, or be sentenced to be reformed in Purgatory.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 07, 2023, 12:55
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.


Putin wants to make Russia great again. Erdogan wants to make Turkey great again. Farage and Johnson wanted to make the United Kingdom great again. Xi wants to make China great again. Meloni wants to make Italy great again (by banning the use of English words with heavy fines, for example). The Taliban want to make Afghanistan great again by, for example, denying women access to education (as it used to be). Kim Jong Un wants to make North Korea great again.

And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 07, 2023, 12:57
...While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected.

Actually, while you & I disagree on many political topics, the only way I see to resolve them is over several evenings with bottles of Lagavullin (or local IPA if on a budget)

Probably not as much or as many as you might think. People on the left say I'm too far right and people on the right say I'm too far left. It's a matter of viewing point and perspective.  8)  Lagavullin is just right and fits my tastes. Ardbeg, Talisker or Highland Park.

Unfortunately, my stomach does not tolerate Lagavulin. I prefer an Oban, for example.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 07, 2023, 14:44
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.


Putin wants to make Russia great again. Erdogan wants to make Turkey great again. Farage and Johnson wanted to make the United Kingdom great again. Xi wants to make China great again. Matarella wants to make Italy great again (by banning the use of English words with heavy fines, for example). The Taliban want to make Afghanistan great again by, for example, denying women access to education (as it used to be). Kim Jong Un wants to make North Korea great again.

And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.


What about:
* Let's build back better (Obama)
* Wir schaffen das (Merkel)
* Awdsmfafoothimaafootafootwhscuseme (Biden, don't know what he means with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14OK8_Cpiz0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14OK8_Cpiz0))

Political retoric and all parties use it. Don't see the difference.

By the way. I prefer Glenmorangie, if we are drinking whisky :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 07, 2023, 15:21
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.

I am hoping, just hoping, that your comments are heavily laden with sarcasm. Because this is exactly how it all starts. Labeling. 'Anti-American', 'socialism', etc, etc, etc. Of course, no one wants to be called anti-american, so they back down, their own beliefs start to break down, and they begin to take sides. Independent thoughts and values are what keeps us all sane, and what corrupt leadership wants to destroy.

There is a documentary series well worth watching, made by Steven Spielberg, called "Why We Hate" that demonstrates the same playbook played throughout history - over and over again that causes the same patterns of hatred and violence all over the world. And labeling is one of those triggers that we must all be careful we don't fall victim to.

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on April 07, 2023, 17:49
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.

Who ever said you didn't have a sense of humour?! Good one! :D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: U11 on April 07, 2023, 20:29
And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.
unfortunately I understand your message as if you equal a desire of the people to have their country independent and strong to Hitler time nazism
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 08, 2023, 04:28
And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.
unfortunately I understand your message as if you equal a desire of the people to have their country independent and strong to Hitler time nazism

If you look at what led to Hitler coming to power back then, I can definitely see parallels:

- Due to the defeat in the First World War, the Germans felt their nation was weak.
- There was a world economic crisis with high inflation.
- As a result, there were many unemployed.
- The political wings drifted further and further to the extremes: the National Socialists and the Communists became stronger and stronger and organized more and more uprisings. They conveyed to the people that they could achieve economic and political stability and make Germany great again.
- The first coups against democracy (Weimar Republic) took place.
- Conspiracy theories intensified. One of them was the "stab in the back" legend. This myth said that Germany had lost the war not on the battlefield, but through "treason within." Jews, Social Democrats and Communists were made responsible for this. From the point of view of the National Socialists, it could not be that the great and strong Germans had lost the war on the battlefield. Therefore, another reason had to be invented so that they would no longer feel weak.

We should all keep our eyes vigilantly open so that history does not repeat itself. Because some of the patterns from back then I unfortunately already recognize in Lots of places around the globe.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2023, 06:34

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 08, 2023, 12:21
...While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected.

Actually, while you & I disagree on many political topics, the only way I see to resolve them is over several evenings with bottles of Lagavullin (or local IPA if on a budget)

Probably not as much or as many as you might think. People on the left say I'm too far right and people on the right say I'm too far left. It's a matter of viewing point and perspective.  8)  Lagavullin is just right and fits my tastes. Ardbeg, Talisker or Highland Park.

Unfortunately, my stomach does not tolerate Lagavulin. I prefer an Oban, for example.

That's it, I'm blocking you!  ;) ;D (dealt with in the usual forum manner for any disagreement?) You don't know scotch, you and the other imbibes who drink that Oban, can't get a cork out of bottle properly. I bet you don't use a nosing glass... no respect for the hard work that goes into making a "real" scotch whisky. 
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)

Yes, Oban is good too. Just don't anyone start mentioning that lowland yellow tea?

I generally only have one wee nip of the high priced blends, then I drop down to something universally good and accepted, Glenlivet or Glenmorangie. If I get to a third, it could be some 5 year old Wee Beastie, or some blended, and to show I'm not all snob, there's a really nice Trader Joe's (no name, NAS) double cask. I also drink Rye or Irish Whiskey.

You want politics? I used to drink Bushmills until a friend of mine said I was wrong and shouldn't be drinking the Protestant Whiskey, I have switched to Jamison so I don't offend him or anyone else of Irish descent.

There's no room for hate in a good Whiskey or Whisky!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 08, 2023, 12:22
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.

Who ever said you didn't have a sense of humour?! Good one! :D

Deep sarcasm, no doubt, and they say it doesn't play well on forums?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 08, 2023, 12:58

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)


Don't want to choose sides here but for pure balance I will remind you that Hillary Clinton called Trump voters xenophobic and misogynistic and most of all a "Basket of deplorables". Left polticians have a habit of calling anyone, that don't agree with them, a threat to democracy. You can call out all things of the right you dislike but remember that the left uses actually the same words and phrases as they do.

No difference. It's, once again, political retoric.

It's just that when the other one says it, you find it's horrible and it's awful but if your side says it it's a laugh and the truth, right? And that goes for both sides.

What you think is right and good for you doesn't mean it's the truth, is good for another or automatically respects another persons wishes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2023, 13:43

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)


Don't want to choose sides here but for pure balance I will remind you that Hillary Clinton called Trump voters xenophobic and misogynistic and most of all a "Basket of deplorables". Left polticians have a habit of calling anyone, that don't agree with them, a threat to democracy. You can call out all things of the right you dislike but remember that the left uses actually the same words and phrases as they do.

No difference. It's, once again, political retoric.

It's just that when the other one says it, you find it's horrible and it's awful but if your side says it it's a laugh and the truth, right? And that goes for both sides.

What you think is right and good for you doesn't mean it's the truth, is good for another or automatically respects another persons wishes.

I know about the "deplorables", but I didn't hear the other labels, explicitly mentioned.

Anyway, "deplorable" comes from the French "pleurer" meaning to weep, to cry out, in other words, the hopeless state of those people made her lament and weep.
That shows concern and care and it's rather harmless and fundamentally different than labeling someone the "enemy of the state" or "anti-American" (which is basically the same).  :P
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 08, 2023, 15:02

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)

Yes, I think the Tutsis, and Jews in the 1930s, issues are perfect examples of this. By calling them cockroaches and dehumanizing them, they allow people to eventually commit extremely violent crimes against them because they are not 'real people'. Its a conditioning process.

I think xenophobia is a real issue and exists whenever there is a lot of underlining fears and scarcity (re. Wilm's story of 1930s Germany above) and should be addressed. And its still behind a lot of things today. Brexit (which is now destroying Britain's economy), Orban used it to win election in Hungary (a Hungarian friend was describing how bad Hungary is now under his rule). Trump during his first presidential campaign speeches: Mexican immigrants are rapists.

A friend showed me a QAnon 'recruitment' video a while ago - not to recruit me but to show how bad it was. It was about the time I first watched that "Why We Hate" documentary I mentioned above, and I could immediately see the pattern. The first five minutes of this video was really dark and menacing, preying on people's fears. The first few minutes! There it was!

Of course, if you don't have those fears, then you don't fall victim to it. But there is obviously a large part of society that do, and these issues need to be addressed - not amplifying the fears themselves and using them for political advantage and control.

Last night I started watching "Why We Hate" again and its very insightful. For any Aussies reading this, I finally found it on SBS On-Demand, but it expires in a couple of days' time. There's 6 episodes so you will need time for a marathon. Not sure where else its showing. It was first aired on the Discovery channel, I believe.

There is nothing wrong with being either a liberal or a conservative, but I just want people to become aware of manipulative politicians and the tell-tale signs. Vote for leaders that have a strong sense of morality. They may not be as 'charismatic' as these other ones - but they will have your real needs close to their heart.

Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but I won't take up any more of people's time.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 08, 2023, 15:57

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)

Yes, I think the Tutsis, and Jews in the 1930s, issues are perfect examples of this. By calling them cockroaches and dehumanizing them, they allow people to eventually commit extremely violent crimes against them because they are not 'real people'. Its a conditioning process.

I think xenophobia is a real issue and exists whenever there is a lot of underlining fears and scarcity (re. Wilm's story of 1930s Germany above) and should be addressed. And its still behind a lot of things today. Brexit (which is now destroying Britain's economy), Orban used it to win election in Hungary (a Hungarian friend was describing how bad Hungary is now under his rule). Trump during his first presidential campaign speeches: Mexican immigrants are rapists.

A friend showed me a QAnon 'recruitment' video a while ago - not to recruit me but to show how bad it was. It was about the time I first watched that "Why We Hate" documentary I mentioned above, and I could immediately see the pattern. The first five minutes of this video was really dark and menacing, preying on people's fears. The first few minutes! There it was!

Of course, if you don't have those fears, then you don't fall victim to it. But there is obviously a large part of society that do, and these issues need to be addressed - not amplifying the fears themselves and using them for political advantage and control.

Last night I started watching "Why We Hate" again and its very insightful. For any Aussies reading this, I finally found it on SBS On-Demand, but it expires in a couple of days' time. There's 6 episodes so you will need time for a marathon. Not sure where else its showing. It was first aired on the Discovery channel, I believe.

There is nothing wrong with being either a liberal or a conservative, but I just want people to become aware of manipulative politicians and the tell-tale signs. Vote for leaders that have a strong sense of morality. They may not be as 'charismatic' as these other ones - but they will have your real needs close to their heart.

Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but I won't take up any more of people's time.


You or the untalented don‘t take up any of my time. Appreciate to read your lines…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 08, 2023, 16:04
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.


Putin wants to make Russia great again. Erdogan wants to make Turkey great again. Farage and Johnson wanted to make the United Kingdom great again. Xi wants to make China great again. Meloni wants to make Italy great again (by banning the use of English words with heavy fines, for example). The Taliban want to make Afghanistan great again by, for example, denying women access to education (as it used to be). Kim Jong Un wants to make North Korea great again.

And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.

Wilm, that is just the "left" rethoric I am talking about. If people have different ideas from you then they must be adoring Hitler and they are all *. That is exactly what is wrong in this world. Deviating opinions are labelled immediately in the most extreme corner without even a consideration to have a discussion on it. People are immediately labelled and not to be dealt with anymore. And that will push people further away from eachother in the end and make things worse. Just saying :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 08, 2023, 16:11

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)


Don't want to choose sides here but for pure balance I will remind you that Hillary Clinton called Trump voters xenophobic and misogynistic and most of all a "Basket of deplorables". Left polticians have a habit of calling anyone, that don't agree with them, a threat to democracy. You can call out all things of the right you dislike but remember that the left uses actually the same words and phrases as they do.

No difference. It's, once again, political retoric.

It's just that when the other one says it, you find it's horrible and it's awful but if your side says it it's a laugh and the truth, right? And that goes for both sides.

What you think is right and good for you doesn't mean it's the truth, is good for another or automatically respects another persons wishes.

I know about the "deplorables", but I didn't hear the other labels, explicitly mentioned.

Anyway, "deplorable" comes from the French "pleurer" meaning to weep, to cry out, in other words, the hopeless state of those people made her lament and weep.
That shows concern and care and it's rather harmless and fundamentally different than labeling someone the "enemy of the state" or "anti-American" (which is basically the same).  :P

To refresh your memory watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHJVE9trSM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHJVE9trSM) and watch closely at the sign in front of her stating "stronger together". So, right is horrible but don't pretend left is shy from using the same insults, hypocrisy and disrespect. All the same.

And feeling sorry for someone else with a different opinion is actually the most insulting thing you can think of. It's way beyond having no respect for another person.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 08, 2023, 16:46

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)


Don't want to choose sides here but for pure balance I will remind you that Hillary Clinton called Trump voters xenophobic and misogynistic and most of all a "Basket of deplorables". Left polticians have a habit of calling anyone, that don't agree with them, a threat to democracy. You can call out all things of the right you dislike but remember that the left uses actually the same words and phrases as they do.

No difference. It's, once again, political retoric.

It's just that when the other one says it, you find it's horrible and it's awful but if your side says it it's a laugh and the truth, right? And that goes for both sides.

What you think is right and good for you doesn't mean it's the truth, is good for another or automatically respects another persons wishes.

I know about the "deplorables", but I didn't hear the other labels, explicitly mentioned.

Anyway, "deplorable" comes from the French "pleurer" meaning to weep, to cry out, in other words, the hopeless state of those people made her lament and weep.
That shows concern and care and it's rather harmless and fundamentally different than labeling someone the "enemy of the state" or "anti-American" (which is basically the same).  :P

To refresh your memory watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHJVE9trSM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHJVE9trSM) and watch closely at the sign in front of her stating "stronger together". So, right is horrible but don't pretend left is shy from using the same insults, hypocrisy and disrespect. All the same.

And feeling sorry for someone else with a different opinion is actually the most insulting thing you can think of. It's way beyond having no respect for another person.

I have no idea what would have happened in the world if "the left" had prevailed in Germany after the Weimar Republic. I know what happened globally when "the right" prevailed. It was not good.

I generally don't like extreme sides - be it left or right. I just know that this very divisive rhetoric is becoming established again. It's up to us to uphold democracy and protect it. It's up to us to recognize democratic processes.

To accept a democracy as such only when the processes are moving in our direction, and to claim that it is no longer a democracy because we have lost, is a democracy at risk - perhaps even lost. And then comes dictatorship. In which none of us may write these lines here. This is something to think about!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2023, 17:26

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)


Don't want to choose sides here but for pure balance I will remind you that Hillary Clinton called Trump voters xenophobic and misogynistic and most of all a "Basket of deplorables". Left polticians have a habit of calling anyone, that don't agree with them, a threat to democracy. You can call out all things of the right you dislike but remember that the left uses actually the same words and phrases as they do.

No difference. It's, once again, political retoric.

It's just that when the other one says it, you find it's horrible and it's awful but if your side says it it's a laugh and the truth, right? And that goes for both sides.

What you think is right and good for you doesn't mean it's the truth, is good for another or automatically respects another persons wishes.

I know about the "deplorables", but I didn't hear the other labels, explicitly mentioned.

Anyway, "deplorable" comes from the French "pleurer" meaning to weep, to cry out, in other words, the hopeless state of those people made her lament and weep.
That shows concern and care and it's rather harmless and fundamentally different than labeling someone the "enemy of the state" or "anti-American" (which is basically the same).  :P

To refresh your memory watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHJVE9trSM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCHJVE9trSM) and watch closely at the sign in front of her stating "stronger together". So, right is horrible but don't pretend left is shy from using the same insults, hypocrisy and disrespect. All the same.

And feeling sorry for someone else with a different opinion is actually the most insulting thing you can think of. It's way beyond having no respect for another person.

Ok. I remember. Not the most inspiring discourse indeed!

However, if what was said may be insulting to some, there is a big difference between hurting someone's feelings (remember the harmless "snowflake" label or Lying Ted or Sleepy Joe or Liddle Marco or Ron Desanctimonous or all the other childish nicknames?) and declaring someone "enemy of the people", "enemy of the state" or "anti-American", which is equivalent to treason and prone to incite physical violence.

I don't mind when stocker2014 is doing it (although she/he should know better), but it's much more serious when a sitting president is doing it. January 6th shouldn't be a surprise to those willing to learn from history. It's only the natural consequence of the same wreckless attitude that triggered all the above-mentioned tragic events.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on April 08, 2023, 20:52
Left polticians have a habit of calling anyone, that don't agree with them, a threat to democracy.

I've copied this from Wikipedia as they can sum it up better than me and I didn't want to miss anything out...

Before, during, and after Election Day, Trump and numerous other Republicans attempted to subvert the election and overturn the results, falsely alleging widespread voter fraud and trying to influence the vote-counting process in swing states. Attorney General William Barr and officials in each of the 50 states found no evidence of widespread fraud or irregularities in the election. Federal agencies overseeing election security said it was the most secure in American history. The Trump campaign and its allies, including Republican members of Congress, continued to engage in numerous attempts to overturn the results of the election by filing 63 lawsuits in several states (all of which were withdrawn or dismissed), spreading conspiracy theories alleging fraud, pressuring Republican state election officials (including, notably, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, in a phone call that later became widely publicized) and legislators to change results, pressuring the Department of Justice to declare the election "corrupt" and intervene, objecting to the Electoral College certification in Congress, and refusing to cooperate with the presidential transition of Joe Biden.This culminated in a mob of Trump supporters attacking the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021, after Trump repeatedly said that he would never concede the election.

...everything listed there pretty much sums up what a 'threat to democracy' looks like. I mean yeah, I agree what you're saying with regards to the political rhetoric and the whole us versus them mentality, but in this instance, it's not that a differing opinion is a threat to democracy... it's more that threatening democracy is a threat to democracy!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 09, 2023, 10:20
And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.
unfortunately I understand your message as if you equal a desire of the people to have their country independent and strong to Hitler time nazism

If you look at what led to Hitler coming to power back then, I can definitely see parallels:

- Due to the defeat in the First World War, the Germans felt their nation was weak.
- There was a world economic crisis with high inflation.
- As a result, there were many unemployed.
- The political wings drifted further and further to the extremes: the National Socialists and the Communists became stronger and stronger and organized more and more uprisings. They conveyed to the people that they could achieve economic and political stability and make Germany great again.
- The first coups against democracy (Weimar Republic) took place.
- Conspiracy theories intensified. One of them was the "stab in the back" legend. This myth said that Germany had lost the war not on the battlefield, but through "treason within." Jews, Social Democrats and Communists were made responsible for this. From the point of view of the National Socialists, it could not be that the great and strong Germans had lost the war on the battlefield. Therefore, another reason had to be invented so that they would no longer feel weak.

We should all keep our eyes vigilantly open so that history does not repeat itself. Because some of the patterns from back then I unfortunately already recognize in Lots of places around the globe.
All these are just factors. In fact, all European countries around, the USA, Great Britain, etc. are to blame. Everyone is to blame for not wanting to see that the * came to power, did not apply sanctions and did not kill the snake in the bud. We see the same thing now, in the early 90s it was possible to apply sanctions to Russia, but this was not done and until the last everyone traded with Russia, and Merkel was generally a KGB agent.
The same is true for China.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 09, 2023, 10:54
And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.
unfortunately I understand your message as if you equal a desire of the people to have their country independent and strong to Hitler time nazism

If you look at what led to Hitler coming to power back then, I can definitely see parallels:

- Due to the defeat in the First World War, the Germans felt their nation was weak.
- There was a world economic crisis with high inflation.
- As a result, there were many unemployed.
- The political wings drifted further and further to the extremes: the National Socialists and the Communists became stronger and stronger and organized more and more uprisings. They conveyed to the people that they could achieve economic and political stability and make Germany great again.
- The first coups against democracy (Weimar Republic) took place.
- Conspiracy theories intensified. One of them was the "stab in the back" legend. This myth said that Germany had lost the war not on the battlefield, but through "treason within." Jews, Social Democrats and Communists were made responsible for this. From the point of view of the National Socialists, it could not be that the great and strong Germans had lost the war on the battlefield. Therefore, another reason had to be invented so that they would no longer feel weak.

We should all keep our eyes vigilantly open so that history does not repeat itself. Because some of the patterns from back then I unfortunately already recognize in Lots of places around the globe.
All these are just factors. In fact, all European countries around, the USA, Great Britain, etc. are to blame. Everyone is to blame for not wanting to see that the * came to power, did not apply sanctions and did not kill the snake in the bud. We see the same thing now, in the early 90s it was possible to apply sanctions to Russia, but this was not done and until the last everyone traded with Russia, and Merkel was generally a KGB agent.
The same is true for China.

Aha, Merkel was a KGB agent? That's news to me. You obviously know more than I do.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2023, 04:35
And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.
unfortunately I understand your message as if you equal a desire of the people to have their country independent and strong to Hitler time nazism

If you look at what led to Hitler coming to power back then, I can definitely see parallels:

- Due to the defeat in the First World War, the Germans felt their nation was weak.
- There was a world economic crisis with high inflation.
- As a result, there were many unemployed.
- The political wings drifted further and further to the extremes: the National Socialists and the Communists became stronger and stronger and organized more and more uprisings. They conveyed to the people that they could achieve economic and political stability and make Germany great again.
- The first coups against democracy (Weimar Republic) took place.
- Conspiracy theories intensified. One of them was the "stab in the back" legend. This myth said that Germany had lost the war not on the battlefield, but through "treason within." Jews, Social Democrats and Communists were made responsible for this. From the point of view of the National Socialists, it could not be that the great and strong Germans had lost the war on the battlefield. Therefore, another reason had to be invented so that they would no longer feel weak.

We should all keep our eyes vigilantly open so that history does not repeat itself. Because some of the patterns from back then I unfortunately already recognize in Lots of places around the globe.
All these are just factors. In fact, all European countries around, the USA, Great Britain, etc. are to blame. Everyone is to blame for not wanting to see that the * came to power, did not apply sanctions and did not kill the snake in the bud. We see the same thing now, in the early 90s it was possible to apply sanctions to Russia, but this was not done and until the last everyone traded with Russia, and Merkel was generally a KGB agent.
The same is true for China.

Aha, Merkel was a KGB agent? That's news to me. You obviously know more than I do.
This is obvious, just as all her politics and connections with Putin are obvious. Read her biography, her father's biography. She worked for the Kremlin all her life, not officially of course.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 10, 2023, 05:51

The playbook goes like this: labeling, taking sides, de-humanizing the other side, attack/defense, hatred, violence. Divide and conquer.

Good point, Annie.
Some of the most notorious cases of labeling and dehumanizing were:

- Before the Rwandan genocide, Tutsis were labeled “cockroaches" by the Hutus, in other words, just vermin that needed to be eradicated.
- Before the Armenian deportation and genocide, Turks called the Armenians, “dangerous microbes.”
- During the the Holocaust, Germans described Jews as “Untermenschen,” or subhumans. Roma people were "Gypsy mongrels" and together with the Jews were considered "enemies of the racial state"

It's worth remembering that anti-communist dissidents were labeled "enemies of the people", in the former communist countries. That's from the same playbook as labeling "anti-american" a majority of US citizens who reject and rejected Trump twice, in democratic elections (note that the american press was also labeled "enemy of the people", by Trump himself)

Yes, I think the Tutsis, and Jews in the 1930s, issues are perfect examples of this. By calling them cockroaches and dehumanizing them, they allow people to eventually commit extremely violent crimes against them because they are not 'real people'. Its a conditioning process.

I think xenophobia is a real issue and exists whenever there is a lot of underlining fears and scarcity (re. Wilm's story of 1930s Germany above) and should be addressed. And its still behind a lot of things today. Brexit (which is now destroying Britain's economy), Orban used it to win election in Hungary (a Hungarian friend was describing how bad Hungary is now under his rule). Trump during his first presidential campaign speeches: Mexican immigrants are rapists.

A friend showed me a QAnon 'recruitment' video a while ago - not to recruit me but to show how bad it was. It was about the time I first watched that "Why We Hate" documentary I mentioned above, and I could immediately see the pattern. The first five minutes of this video was really dark and menacing, preying on people's fears. The first few minutes! There it was!

Of course, if you don't have those fears, then you don't fall victim to it. But there is obviously a large part of society that do, and these issues need to be addressed - not amplifying the fears themselves and using them for political advantage and control.

Last night I started watching "Why We Hate" again and its very insightful. For any Aussies reading this, I finally found it on SBS On-Demand, but it expires in a couple of days' time. There's 6 episodes so you will need time for a marathon. Not sure where else its showing. It was first aired on the Discovery channel, I believe.

There is nothing wrong with being either a liberal or a conservative, but I just want people to become aware of manipulative politicians and the tell-tale signs. Vote for leaders that have a strong sense of morality. They may not be as 'charismatic' as these other ones - but they will have your real needs close to their heart.

Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but I won't take up any more of people's time.

speaking of using fear to manipulate people, I just saw this tweet from the New York Times today:

"Tucker Carlson, the host of the most-watched show on prime-time cable news, uses a simple narrative to instill fear in viewers. We analyzed 1,150 episodes to see how he promotes extremist ideas and conspiracy theories. Revisit our analysis from April 2022."

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1645236415792308228?s=58&t=o5sPWS08f5nZ2_iwzV1oEA

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 10, 2023, 10:01
And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.
unfortunately I understand your message as if you equal a desire of the people to have their country independent and strong to Hitler time nazism

If you look at what led to Hitler coming to power back then, I can definitely see parallels:

- Due to the defeat in the First World War, the Germans felt their nation was weak.
- There was a world economic crisis with high inflation.
- As a result, there were many unemployed.
- The political wings drifted further and further to the extremes: the National Socialists and the Communists became stronger and stronger and organized more and more uprisings. They conveyed to the people that they could achieve economic and political stability and make Germany great again.
- The first coups against democracy (Weimar Republic) took place.
- Conspiracy theories intensified. One of them was the "stab in the back" legend. This myth said that Germany had lost the war not on the battlefield, but through "treason within." Jews, Social Democrats and Communists were made responsible for this. From the point of view of the National Socialists, it could not be that the great and strong Germans had lost the war on the battlefield. Therefore, another reason had to be invented so that they would no longer feel weak.

We should all keep our eyes vigilantly open so that history does not repeat itself. Because some of the patterns from back then I unfortunately already recognize in Lots of places around the globe.
All these are just factors. In fact, all European countries around, the USA, Great Britain, etc. are to blame. Everyone is to blame for not wanting to see that the * came to power, did not apply sanctions and did not kill the snake in the bud. We see the same thing now, in the early 90s it was possible to apply sanctions to Russia, but this was not done and until the last everyone traded with Russia, and Merkel was generally a KGB agent.
The same is true for China.

Aha, Merkel was a KGB agent? That's news to me. You obviously know more than I do.
This is obvious, just as all her politics and connections with Putin are obvious. Read her biography, her father's biography. She worked for the Kremlin all her life, not officially of course.

These biographies, which are supposed to prove what you write here, I do not know and cannot find anywhere.

Do you have access to any secret archives if you know about things that are "not official"?

She grew up in the GDR, which emerged from the Soviet occupation zone. Thus, she was probably closer to socialism at that time than the West Germans. However, she took a very negative view of Russia's development under Putin, openly criticizing Russia's de-democratization to Putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2023, 13:10
Do you have access to any secret archives if you know about things that are "not official"?
She grew up in the GDR, which emerged from the Soviet occupation zone. Thus, she was probably closer to socialism at that time than the West Germans. However, she took a very negative view of Russia's development under Putin, openly criticizing Russia's de-democratization to Putin.
Information slowly penetrates into the press, but not much, tk. this will probably interfere with Scholz, who is required to have the right policy.
Any good career as a pioneer, a communist is not just like that. She knows Russian well. In those years, Putin also worked in the GDR as a scout. As a result, a former communist from the GDR sat at the head of Germany for many years. How beautiful.
They say there and there was a connection between them, but I won’t say, and so I wrote enough.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2023, 13:14
She grew up in the GDR, which emerged from the Soviet occupation zone.
Good start, you can keep digging.
She was born in Germany, but then went to live in the GDR. What smart person will go to live in the GDR? It is clear that this was her father's decision. You can dig further, why, why ...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 10, 2023, 13:18

Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but I won't take up any more of people's time.

Transylvanian Saxons, not many will know that history but after they did much to build the country, they were in effect, more recently, chased out of their own homes, which were taken over. Their history was destroyed, records and documents. That's hate.

Enemy of the state has been applied by both sides in the US, to the others. God is on our side was used by the Germans in the world wars.

In the end, those in power and the winners of battles, or wars, write the history.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2023, 13:49

Anyway, I could go on and on about this, but I won't take up any more of people's time.

Transylvanian Saxons, not many will know that history but after they did much to build the country, they were in effect, more recently, chased out of their own homes, which were taken over. Their history was destroyed, records and documents. That's hate.

Enemy of the state has been applied by both sides in the US, to the others. God is on our side was used by the Germans in the world wars.

In the end, those in power and the winners of battles, or wars, write the history.
They were only "chased away" after WWII, when large numbers were deported to Siberia by the russian occupying army, beying suspected of nazi collaborationism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Germans_from_Romania_after_World_War_II

Later on, a large majority of those who remained, were actually sold by Ceausescu (the former communist dictator of Romania) for 20,000 deutsche marks (~$10,000) a piece, Pete.

Federal Germany paid this amount for all ethnic Germans who wanted to emigrate and escape from communist Romania. Ethnic Romanians didn't have this chance.  ;)
Their empty homes were occupied, after their departure, indeed.

Lesser known fact is that the sitting Romanian president is Klaus Werner Iohannis, a Transylvanian saxon, born in Sibiu (aka Hermannstadt), once predominantly German-speaking city. This confirms the high esteem regular romanians still hold for the german minority.

Electing a president from an ethnic minority, and at the same time from a religious minority is not somethig that happens in too many places.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2023, 14:03
However, she took a very negative view of Russia's development under Putin, openly criticizing Russia's de-democratization to Putin.
You should not just listen to what politicians say, you need to watch what they do. They say one thing and do another, that's how Russian agents work.
What can I say about Merkel, about her affairs, I won’t list everything, she ruled for many years.
1. Kept Georgia and Ukraine out of NATO in 2008.
2. Forced Kyiv to sign a surrender in 2014, the Minsk agreements.
3. She built Nord Stream 2 in order to help Russia occupy Ukraine, but at the same time not lose gas for Germany.
4. Made Germany very dependent on Russian energy.
5. Carried out an anti-American policy, carefully. I'm not talking about how long Russian agents and soft power in the form of various funds, TV channels were in Germany.
Rake and rake. And nothing, he sits on his pension, and is not responsible for anything.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2023, 14:20
However, she took a very negative view of Russia's development under Putin, openly criticizing Russia's de-democratization to Putin.
You should not just listen to what politicians say, you need to watch what they do. They say one thing and do another, that's how Russian agents work.
What can I say about Merkel, about her affairs, I won’t list everything, she ruled for many years.
1. Kept Georgia and Ukraine out of NATO in 2008.
2. Forced Kyiv to sign a surrender in 2014, the Minsk agreements.
3. She built Nord Stream 2 in order to help Russia occupy Ukraine, but at the same time not lose gas for Germany.
4. Made Germany very dependent on Russian energy.
5. Carried out an anti-American policy, carefully. I'm not talking about how long Russian agents and soft power in the form of various funds, TV channels were in Germany.
Rake and rake. And nothing, he sits on his pension, and is not responsible for anything.

I am not saying that she is a russian agent, but she clearly lacked vision irt Putin.
Her predecessor Schröder, is not even hiding it, being directly employed by Putin, after he left office.

But this is not uncommon among European politicians. Here is a list:

Gerhard Schröder (former German prime-minister),
Matteo Renzi (former Italian prime-minister),
Christian Kern (former Austrian chancelor),
François Fillon (former French prime-minister),
Esko Aho (former Finish prime-minister),
Pavoli Poonem (former Finish prime-minister)
Karin Kneissl (former Austrian minister of foreign affairs)
Hans Jörg Schelling (former Austrian minister of finance),
Dominique Strauss-Kahn (former IMF director)

All of them were employed by Putin.

See Karin Kneissl here
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRG2KkSXEAIBtEC.jpg)

... bowing in front of Putin, special guest at her 2018 wedding.  ::)

All these useful idiots should have know better and should have listen to countries like Poland, Romania, the Baltic countries, etc who constantly warned them about the russian danger, after experiencing it first hand, for decades.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 10, 2023, 15:13
Do you have access to any secret archives if you know about things that are "not official"?
She grew up in the GDR, which emerged from the Soviet occupation zone. Thus, she was probably closer to socialism at that time than the West Germans. However, she took a very negative view of Russia's development under Putin, openly criticizing Russia's de-democratization to Putin.
Information slowly penetrates into the press, but not much, tk. this will probably interfere with Scholz, who is required to have the right policy.
Any good career as a pioneer, a communist is not just like that. She knows Russian well. In those years, Putin also worked in the GDR as a scout. As a result, a former communist from the GDR sat at the head of Germany for many years. How beautiful.
They say there and there was a connection between them, but I won’t say, and so I wrote enough.


Why Angela Merkel's father chose the GDR and not the FRG can be read. It had to do with his theological profession.

The inhabitants of the GDR all learned Russian at school because the GDR was a Russian occupation zone and later part of the Warsaw Pact under the leadership of the Soviet Union/Russia, while the inhabitants of the FRG learned the language of the American, English and French occupation zones. I was one of them. Neither the students in the GDR nor those in the FRG chose the languages that were in the state curriculum.   It was predetermined - for Merkel, as for me.

To establish a closeness to Putin because Angela Merkel knew Russian is therefore nonsense.

The statement "They say..." is - with respect - not helpful. Who says that? Where does any and trustworthy information come from. Who are "they"?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 10, 2023, 15:52
However, she took a very negative view of Russia's development under Putin, openly criticizing Russia's de-democratization to Putin.
You should not just listen to what politicians say, you need to watch what they do. They say one thing and do another, that's how Russian agents work.
What can I say about Merkel, about her affairs, I won’t list everything, she ruled for many years.
1. Kept Georgia and Ukraine out of NATO in 2008.
2. Forced Kyiv to sign a surrender in 2014, the Minsk agreements.
3. She built Nord Stream 2 in order to help Russia occupy Ukraine, but at the same time not lose gas for Germany.
4. Made Germany very dependent on Russian energy.
5. Carried out an anti-American policy, carefully. I'm not talking about how long Russian agents and soft power in the form of various funds, TV channels were in Germany.
Rake and rake. And nothing, he sits on his pension, and is not responsible for anything.

I am not saying that she is a russian agent, but she clearly lacked vision irt Putin.
Her predecessor Schröder, is not even hiding it, being directly employed by Putin, after he left office.

But this is not uncommon among European politicians. Here is a list:

Gerhard Schröder (former German prime-minister),
Matteo Renzi (former Italian prime-minister),
Christian Kern (former Austrian chancelor),
François Fillon (former French prime-minister),
Esko Aho (former Finish prime-minister),
Pavoli Poonem (former Finish prime-minister)
Karin Kneissl (former Austrian minister of foreign affairs)
Hans Jörg Schelling (former Austrian minister of finance),
Dominique Strauss-Kahn (former IMF director)

All of them were employed by Putin.

See Karin Kneissl here
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRG2KkSXEAIBtEC.jpg)

... bowing in front of Putin, special guest at her 2018 wedding.  ::)

All these useful idiots should have know better and should have listen to countries like Poland, Romania, the Baltic countries, etc who constantly warned them about the russian danger, after experiencing it first hand, for decades.


That is correct about Gerhard Schröder. And it is also viewed extremely critically here. Like Medvedev, for example, he has obviously allowed himself to be made docile with money. And he has called his friend Putin a "full-blooded democrat".

Putting Schröder on the same level as Merkel is like putting Trump and Biden on the same level. Since they come from sometimes very opposite political persuasions, I think naming these two politicians in this context is absolutely wrong.

Germany for a long time has been much more diplomatic in trying to keep the peace with Russia than the U.S. has been. Under Gorbachev, the signs for long-term peace seemed good. But, if I understand it correctly, Gorbachev offended the national pride of many Russians. Putin has now taken the opposite approach. Which was obviously very welcomed in nationalist circles in Russia.

As far as Nordstream is concerned, it must be noted that the then Chancellor Schröder obviously knew how to prevent alternatives (such as "Nabucco" or fracking gas from the USA). He became a member of Gazprom's supervisory board shortly after he was voted out of office as chancellor and had obviously initiated this beforehand. You can think your own part about this.

What this has to do with Angela Merkel, however, I do not know.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2023, 16:08

What this has to do with Angela Merkel, however, I do not know.

As I said, I am not claiming she was putin's puppet or something.

I am only saying, post-factum, that she misread putin and lacked long term vision.
She thought Germany can continue its economical growth and prosperity by relying on artificially cheap gas, from the preferential deals she and her predecessor made with putin, when putin's main goal was to corner the market.

He succesfully made sure that German politicians banned fracking, banned nuclear energy, banned coal, etc making Germany heavily depended on russian gas, all this (also) under Merkel's watch.

PS. And, please don't make me start on Austrian politicians (not only the happy bride above)... who even today continue to play putin's game.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 02:53
But this is not uncommon among European politicians. Here is a list:
Gerhard Schröder (former German prime-minister),
Matteo Renzi (former Italian prime-minister),
Christian Kern (former Austrian chancelor),
François Fillon (former French prime-minister),
Esko Aho (former Finish prime-minister),
Pavoli Poonem (former Finish prime-minister)
Karin Kneissl (former Austrian minister of foreign affairs)
Hans Jörg Schelling (former Austrian minister of finance),
Dominique Strauss-Kahn (former IMF director)

All these useful idiots
These are not idiots, these are agents recruited by the KGB. Working for the interests of the Russian Federation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 02:57
Why Angela Merkel's father chose the GDR and not the FRG can be read. It had to do with his theological profession.
Good legend, I see it working so far.
You better tell me how it was possible for a person with such a biography, a pioneer, a communist, to be elected to the post of chancellor in a united Germany.

The statement "They say..." is - with respect - not helpful. Who says that? Where does any and trustworthy information come from. Who are "they"?
Yes, her whole policy suggests that she was recruited by the KGB back in the years of the USSR.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 03:02
What this has to do with Angela Merkel, however, I do not know.
Direct is relevant. Merkel complied with the Kremlin's order, lobbied for the construction of a gas pipeline in the EU and, accordingly, did everything to ensure that the Russian Federation attacked Ukraine. If the Russian Federation occupies Ukraine, then the Russian Federation will go to the Baltic states, Poland and reach Berlin. The entire former social camp will be occupied again.
Instead of making the EU and Germany as independent as possible from energy supplies from one country, she made the entire EU dependent on Russia. Only KGB agents do such work.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 03:04
He succesfully made sure that German politicians banned fracking, banned nuclear energy, banned coal, etc making Germany heavily depended on russian gas, all this (also) under Merkel's watch.
She should be put in jail for this. Arrest her, she will give you a bunch of KGB agents all over the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Her Ugliness on April 11, 2023, 04:05

He succesfully made sure that German politicians banned fracking, banned nuclear energy, banned coal, etc making Germany heavily depended on russian gas, all this (also) under Merkel's watch.


Strange, we still have nuclear power plants and coal mining (and will have till 2038!) in Germany. Didn't help much with the dependency on russian gas, did it?


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2023, 06:19

He succesfully made sure that German politicians banned fracking, banned nuclear energy, banned coal, etc making Germany heavily depended on russian gas, all this (also) under Merkel's watch.


Strange, we still have nuclear power plants and coal mining (and will have till 2038!) in Germany. Didn't help much with the dependency on russian gas, did it?
It's not strange. It's the consequence of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, when Germany was caught with its pants down.
The realities of the war triggered the reversal of those naive policies adopted during Merkel's time in office.
The plans to completely shut down all nuclear power plants were canceled, and coal power plants were re-opened.
And fracking on German soil is still banned isn't it?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 07:17

He succesfully made sure that German politicians banned fracking, banned nuclear energy, banned coal, etc making Germany heavily depended on russian gas, all this (also) under Merkel's watch.
Strange, we still have nuclear power plants and coal mining (and will have till 2038!) in Germany. Didn't help much with the dependency on russian gas, did it?
The dependence of Germany and the EU on Russia was huge. That's why gas prices went up. There is nothing good in continuing to burn coal or develop nuclear power. A green policy is a good idea, but when it is implemented by normal politicians, and not agents of the KGB.
Merkel's goal was to keep the entire EU dependent on Russian gas, and according to her plans, Germany was to become a hub for the distribution of Russian gas to other EU countries. The purpose of Nord Stream 2 was to receive gas during the war and the occupation of Ukraine, because. 70% of Russian gas was exported through Ukraine.
Yes, the United States managed to make sure that the Nord Stream 2 did not work, the EU countries, at the cost of inflation and high prices and losses, were able to reorient themselves to other markets. I don’t know how it is now, but back in 2022, the EU paid Russia several billion euros every day for gas that was exported through Ukraine. Good financing of the criminal terrorist regime in Russia.
Merkel completed her tasks, but the Kremlin's plans were only half completed. The impact on the EU countries was an economic one. Although, of course, ideally, Putin planned to supply gas via the Nord Stream 2. Russia blackmailed the EU, cut off gas this winter, put forward political demands, all this also affects support for Ukraine, I don’t know in which direction.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 07:22
The realities of the war triggered the reversal of those naive policies adopted during Merkel's time in office.
You can speak softly and call Merkel's policy naive, or you can speak straight and tell the truth. KGB agents are not naive people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2023, 09:11
The realities of the war triggered the reversal of those naive policies adopted during Merkel's time in office.
You can speak softly and call Merkel's policy naive, or you can speak straight and tell the truth. KGB agents are not naive people.

I will refrain from such speculations.
In my opinion, Merkel's erroneous decisions are defined by the law of unintended consequences
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 11, 2023, 10:11

He succesfully made sure that German politicians banned fracking, banned nuclear energy, banned coal, etc making Germany heavily depended on russian gas, all this (also) under Merkel's watch.


Strange, we still have nuclear power plants and coal mining (and will have till 2038!) in Germany. Didn't help much with the dependency on russian gas, did it?
It's not strange. It's the consequence of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, when Germany was caught with its pants down.
The realities of the war triggered the reversal of those naive policies adopted during Merkel's time in office.
The plans to completely shut down all nuclear power plants were canceled, and coal power plants were re-opened.
And fracking on German soil is still banned isn't it?

Fracking is not generally prohibited in Germany. Fracking is indeed carried out - for example by Exxon Mobil - but without contributing significantly to the energy supply.

The German population is very cautious about it because of the chemicals used and the potential danger of poisoning groundwater and drinking water. Since the population density in Germany is about 8 times that in the U.S., these concerns are understandable. The companies that use fracking have no duty to disclose the chemicals they use. The CO2 balance of fracked shale gas is worse than that of coal. Incidentally, there are only about a fifth of the shale gas deposits in the whole of Europe, compared to the USA. It is estimated that even if the reserves were exhausted, Germany would still be dependent on 80% gas imports.

Now, fracked gas is also being delivered from the USA. How high the share of the required gas demand is, is not known to me. I would have to research it.

Overall, Germany is a resource-poor country that has to cover 70% of its energy needs from imports. Lignite is actually the only raw material that can be extracted here, but its environmental record is disastrous. Therefore, attempts are being made to cut back on this, but the attack on Ukraine has led to a step backwards. Hard coal and uranium are 100% imported, oil 98% and natural gas 94%.
Therefore, there is a strong focus on renewable energies. Wind and solar energy are to be mentioned here. Photovoltaic systems, however, are imported 100% from China. So there is a very high dependency in this segment as well. And the population is not uncritical of renewable energies, which would give Germany more independence. Due to the high population density, wind turbines are located increasingly closer to settlements.

As far as nuclear energy is concerned, the population is also divided. Fukushima initially led to a significant increase in skepticism - even though there are currently, of course, more voices in favor of nuclear energy again. In addition, the problem of final storage is much greater here than in countries with large, extremely sparsely populated areas. In France, the situation is different - there, the focus is more on nuclear energy. Last year, by the way, with problems that the rivers became too warm for cooling.

The EU - including Germany - definitely wanted supply diversification for natural gas. One wanted to achieve access to the Caspian natural gas deposits with the project "Nabucco", in order to reduce the dependence on Gazprom. In addition to the fact that the EU would have been dependent on Turkey's reliability in the transit of the gas, the project failed because the gas-producing consortium decided in 2013 not to supply gas through the Nabucco pipeline. Nabucco, by the way, would not have gone through either Russia or Ukraine.

You also have to imagine things a bit more complicated here than in the U.S., for example. There, a pipeline runs through one country, whereas here in Europe it runs through countless countries, which of course entails a much higher potential for problems, especially if there are different political views.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2023, 10:38

He succesfully made sure that German politicians banned fracking, banned nuclear energy, banned coal, etc making Germany heavily depended on russian gas, all this (also) under Merkel's watch.


Strange, we still have nuclear power plants and coal mining (and will have till 2038!) in Germany. Didn't help much with the dependency on russian gas, did it?
It's not strange. It's the consequence of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, when Germany was caught with its pants down.
The realities of the war triggered the reversal of those naive policies adopted during Merkel's time in office.
The plans to completely shut down all nuclear power plants were canceled, and coal power plants were re-opened.
And fracking on German soil is still banned isn't it?

Fracking is not generally prohibited in Germany. Fracking is indeed carried out - for example by Exxon Mobil - but without contributing significantly to the energy supply.

The German population is very cautious about it because of the chemicals used and the potential danger of poisoning groundwater and drinking water. Since the population density in Germany is about 8 times that in the U.S., these concerns are understandable. The companies that use fracking have no duty to disclose the chemicals they use. The CO2 balance of fracked shale gas is worse than that of coal. Incidentally, there are only about a fifth of the shale gas deposits in the whole of Europe, compared to the USA. It is estimated that even if the reserves were exhausted, Germany would still be dependent on 80% gas imports.

Now, fracked gas is also being delivered from the USA. How high the share of the required gas demand is, is not known to me. I would have to research it.

Overall, Germany is a resource-poor country that has to cover 70% of its energy needs from imports. Lignite is actually the only raw material that can be extracted here, but its environmental record is disastrous. Therefore, attempts are being made to cut back on this, but the attack on Ukraine has led to a step backwards. Hard coal and uranium are 100% imported, oil 98% and natural gas 94%.
Therefore, there is a strong focus on renewable energies. Wind and solar energy are to be mentioned here. Photovoltaic systems, however, are imported 100% from China. So there is a very high dependency in this segment as well. And the population is not uncritical of renewable energies, which would give Germany more independence. Due to the high population density, wind turbines are located increasingly closer to settlements.

As far as nuclear energy is concerned, the population is also divided. Fukushima initially led to a significant increase in skepticism - even though there are currently, of course, more voices in favor of nuclear energy again. In addition, the problem of final storage is much greater here than in countries with large, extremely sparsely populated areas. In France, the situation is different - there, the focus is more on nuclear energy. Last year, by the way, with problems that the rivers became too warm for cooling.

The EU - including Germany - definitely wanted supply diversification for natural gas. One wanted to achieve access to the Caspian natural gas deposits with the project "Nabucco", in order to reduce the dependence on Gazprom. In addition to the fact that the EU would have been dependent on Turkey's reliability in the transit of the gas, the project failed because the gas-producing consortium decided in 2013 not to supply gas through the Nabucco pipeline. Nabucco, by the way, would not have gone through either Russia or Ukraine.

You also have to imagine things a bit more complicated here than in the U.S., for example. There, a pipeline runs through one country, whereas here in Europe it runs through countless countries, which of course entails a much higher potential for problems, especially if there are different political views.

I'm aware of all these concerns, Wilm.

What must be acknowledged is that such concerns (against nuclear, fracking, coal, and climate change in general) are sponsored and influenced by Russia (+ their troll farm from Sankt Petersburg doing a great job, fanning the flames with the general public).

Russia wants to eliminate its competitors, to corner the market to remain the main energy supplier for Europe. One must be really naive to deny that.

Importing nuclear energy from France, while phasing it out in Germany (+ asking France to shutdown some nuclear reactors near the German border) or importing fracked oil and gas from the USA (while banning it from Germany since 2017) is a bit hypochritical, don't you think?

However, these days, more down to earth politicians, awaken by Russia's aggression, are reconsidering Merkel's ban on fracking and are revisiting her plans to phase out nuclear and coal.

This U-turn is also seen in other EU countries, btw.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 11, 2023, 11:30

He succesfully made sure that German politicians banned fracking, banned nuclear energy, banned coal, etc making Germany heavily depended on russian gas, all this (also) under Merkel's watch.


Strange, we still have nuclear power plants and coal mining (and will have till 2038!) in Germany. Didn't help much with the dependency on russian gas, did it?
It's not strange. It's the consequence of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, when Germany was caught with its pants down.
The realities of the war triggered the reversal of those naive policies adopted during Merkel's time in office.
The plans to completely shut down all nuclear power plants were canceled, and coal power plants were re-opened.
And fracking on German soil is still banned isn't it?

Fracking is not generally prohibited in Germany. Fracking is indeed carried out - for example by Exxon Mobil - but without contributing significantly to the energy supply.

The German population is very cautious about it because of the chemicals used and the potential danger of poisoning groundwater and drinking water. Since the population density in Germany is about 8 times that in the U.S., these concerns are understandable. The companies that use fracking have no duty to disclose the chemicals they use. The CO2 balance of fracked shale gas is worse than that of coal. Incidentally, there are only about a fifth of the shale gas deposits in the whole of Europe, compared to the USA. It is estimated that even if the reserves were exhausted, Germany would still be dependent on 80% gas imports.

Now, fracked gas is also being delivered from the USA. How high the share of the required gas demand is, is not known to me. I would have to research it.

Overall, Germany is a resource-poor country that has to cover 70% of its energy needs from imports. Lignite is actually the only raw material that can be extracted here, but its environmental record is disastrous. Therefore, attempts are being made to cut back on this, but the attack on Ukraine has led to a step backwards. Hard coal and uranium are 100% imported, oil 98% and natural gas 94%.
Therefore, there is a strong focus on renewable energies. Wind and solar energy are to be mentioned here. Photovoltaic systems, however, are imported 100% from China. So there is a very high dependency in this segment as well. And the population is not uncritical of renewable energies, which would give Germany more independence. Due to the high population density, wind turbines are located increasingly closer to settlements.

As far as nuclear energy is concerned, the population is also divided. Fukushima initially led to a significant increase in skepticism - even though there are currently, of course, more voices in favor of nuclear energy again. In addition, the problem of final storage is much greater here than in countries with large, extremely sparsely populated areas. In France, the situation is different - there, the focus is more on nuclear energy. Last year, by the way, with problems that the rivers became too warm for cooling.

The EU - including Germany - definitely wanted supply diversification for natural gas. One wanted to achieve access to the Caspian natural gas deposits with the project "Nabucco", in order to reduce the dependence on Gazprom. In addition to the fact that the EU would have been dependent on Turkey's reliability in the transit of the gas, the project failed because the gas-producing consortium decided in 2013 not to supply gas through the Nabucco pipeline. Nabucco, by the way, would not have gone through either Russia or Ukraine.

You also have to imagine things a bit more complicated here than in the U.S., for example. There, a pipeline runs through one country, whereas here in Europe it runs through countless countries, which of course entails a much higher potential for problems, especially if there are different political views.


Importing nuclear energy from France, while phasing it out in Germany (+ asking France to shutdown some nuclear reactors near the German border) or importing fracked oil and gas from the USA (while banning it from Germany since 2017) is a bit hypochritical, don't you think?


Yes. I am aware of that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Her Ugliness on April 11, 2023, 11:53
t.

Importing nuclear energy from France, while phasing it out in Germany (+ asking France to shutdown some nuclear reactors near the German border)

And yet....

(https://i.postimg.cc/Y0pbbN8b/Untitled-1.jpg)

Energy imported from Germany to France betwen 2002 and 2022 ....  ???
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2023, 11:59
There is nothing wrong in what I said. The devil is in the details.

Germany is importing nuclear energy from France, while phasing out the german nuclear reactors (also asking France to shutdown some of their rectors near the border):
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 11, 2023, 12:19


What must be acknowledged is that such concerns (against nuclear, fracking, coal, and climate change in general) are sponsored and influenced by Russia (+ their troll farm from Sankt Petersburg doing a great job, fanning the flames with the general public).

Russia wants to eliminate its competitors, to corner the market to remain the main energy supplier for Europe. One must be really naive to deny that.

Importing nuclear energy from France, while phasing it out in Germany (+ asking France to shutdown some nuclear reactors near the German border) or importing fracked oil and gas from the USA (while banning it from Germany since 2017) is a bit hypochritical, don't you think?

However, these days, more down to earth politicians, awaken by Russia's aggression, are reconsidering Merkel's ban on fracking and are revisiting her plans to phase out nuclear and coal.

This U-turn is also seen in other EU countries, btw.

As far as the hypocrisy of German energy policy is concerned, I agree with the reasons you gave.
But why the influence of Russian propaganda is constantly proclaimed here for all German political decisions is not comprehensible to me in all points.

Take nuclear energy, for example.
 
I think there is no question that this kind of energy production can be seen controversially.
At the end of the 70's an anti-nuclear movement arose here in Germany, from which the Green Party developed. We may assume that the influence of Russian troll factories at that time may not have played a role.
When the Greens were in government at some point, the decision was made to phase out nuclear energy.
In 2010, the government under Angela Merkel reversed this decision and decided to extend the operating lives of nuclear power plants
.
It wasn't until the Fukushima nuclear disaster on March 11, 2011, that the government changed course and decided to phase out nuclear power.

At least as far as the attitude toward nuclear energy is concerned, I see no evidence of Russian influence here at any point. I do not want to judge the decision. However, the development has arisen from obvious historical events.

As far as fracking is concerned, Wilm has already pointed out the German peculiarities.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 12:30
Russia wants to eliminate its competitors, to corner the market to remain the main energy supplier for Europe. One must be really naive to deny that.
Putin's goals are not only economic, I would say the main political goals. The main goal of Russia is the restoration of the USSR and the socialist camp, including Germany, as well as the collapse of the EU.
Also now Russia is acting in tandem with China and Iran, they have such a coalition. I also admit that Russia does a lot of what China tells it to do unofficially.
Energy is just a tool for blackmail and achieving political goals.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 12:33
In my opinion, Merkel's erroneous decisions are defined by the law of unintended consequences
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
With this approach, we will not win the war. Enemies must be eliminated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2023, 12:48


What must be acknowledged is that such concerns (against nuclear, fracking, coal, and climate change in general) are sponsored and influenced by Russia (+ their troll farm from Sankt Petersburg doing a great job, fanning the flames with the general public).

Russia wants to eliminate its competitors, to corner the market to remain the main energy supplier for Europe. One must be really naive to deny that.

Importing nuclear energy from France, while phasing it out in Germany (+ asking France to shutdown some nuclear reactors near the German border) or importing fracked oil and gas from the USA (while banning it from Germany since 2017) is a bit hypochritical, don't you think?

However, these days, more down to earth politicians, awaken by Russia's aggression, are reconsidering Merkel's ban on fracking and are revisiting her plans to phase out nuclear and coal.

This U-turn is also seen in other EU countries, btw.

As far as the hypocrisy of German energy policy is concerned, I agree with the reasons you gave.
But why the influence of Russian propaganda is constantly proclaimed here for all German political decisions is not comprehensible to me in all points.

Take nuclear energy, for example.
 
I think there is no question that this kind of energy production can be seen controversially.
At the end of the 70's an anti-nuclear movement arose here in Germany, from which the Green Party developed. We may assume that the influence of Russian troll factories at that time may not have played a role.
When the Greens were in government at some point, the decision was made to phase out nuclear energy.
In 2010, the government under Angela Merkel reversed this decision and decided to extend the operating lives of nuclear power plants
.
It wasn't until the Fukushima nuclear disaster on March 11, 2011, that the government changed course and decided to phase out nuclear power.

At least as far as the attitude toward nuclear energy is concerned, I see no evidence of Russian influence here at any point. I do not want to judge the decision. However, the development has arisen from obvious historical events.

As far as fracking is concerned, Wilm has already pointed out the German peculiarities.

I agree that the russian troll farm didn't exist back in the day and some of the decisions may have come out of good intentions (exemplifying the law of unintended consequences, as I said above).

However, these days, the russian troll farm is pushing hard the climate change topic, to make sure Russia remains dominant on the energy market (speaking about the ultimate hypochrisy  ::))

Here are some examples of memes, targeting the public opinion, as a way to influence politicians (from US, but I'm sure you have your fair share in EU)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 11, 2023, 13:44
When it comes to nuclear energy, the Germans are probably an exception worldwide. Until the next accident happens.

When you see the documentations here, how negligently radioactive waste is handled, which does not bring any more money, but whose interim storage costs, I feel sick.

I hope for nuclear fusion, I hope for huge battery storage facilities, I hope for low-energy hydrogen production. But I don't want a second Chernobyl. Nuclear energy is not safe because people with certain interests run it. The risk is just too high.

The next accident will come - it's not a question of if, but when. And when it happens in the most densely populated area, everyone will understand where the problem is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 11, 2023, 14:39

I agree that the russian troll farm didn't exist back in the day and some of the decisions may have come out of good intentions (exemplifying the law of unintended consequences, as I said above).

However, these days, the russian troll farm is pushing hard the climate change topic, to make sure Russia remains dominant on the energy market (speaking about the ultimate hypochrisy  ::))

Here are some examples of memes, targeting the public opinion, as a way to influence politicians (from US, but I'm sure you have your fair share in EU)

We are probably not that far apart.
Of course, these Russian troll farms influence public opinion. In Germany at the moment, this is aimed more at the Ukrainian refugees and finds fertile ground among right-wingers.

However, I don't see any evidence that this propaganda is influencing political decisions on the whole, at least in Germany.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2023, 15:01
However, I don't see any evidence that this propaganda is influencing political decisions on the whole, at least in Germany.

I'm fairy certain that most politicians do listen to the public opinion and act accordingly or else they don't get (re)elected (especially these days, when populism is on the rise).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2023, 15:15
But I don't want a second Chernobyl.
Forget Chernobyl. Now such nuclear power plants are no longer being built, modern plants are much more reliable and safer.
For example, the Russians are constantly shelling the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant in Ukraine, disconnecting it from the power grid, storing ammunition on its territory, but the station is still standing, although for some reason the whole world does not care about it.
At the expense of Chernobyl, the accident was then the result of experiments conducted by the Kremlin on Ukrainian soil. I can't say that it was a planned genocide of Ukrainians, but I heard that experiments were simply made at this station for the dissertation of some official in Moscow. Accordingly, the station was loaded beyond its capabilities. Further, the USSR tried to hide everything from the world as much as possible, as a result, the necessary assistance was not received in a timely manner.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 11, 2023, 15:24
However, I don't see any evidence that this propaganda is influencing political decisions on the whole, at least in Germany.

I'm fairy certain that most politicians do listen to the public opinion and act accordingly or else they don't get (re)elected (especially these days, when populism is on the rise).

From my point of view, only a small, albeit extreme, part of the population is impressed and influenced by Russian propaganda.

To your thesis about the hearing of politicians for the population:

Nuclear power plants are switched off here in Germany this month against the will of around 2 thirds of the population.




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 11, 2023, 15:56
But I don't want a second Chernobyl.
Forget Chernobyl. Now such nuclear power plants are no longer being built, modern plants are much more reliable and safer.
For example, the Russians are constantly shelling the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant in Ukraine, disconnecting it from the power grid, storing ammunition on its territory, but the station is still standing, although for some reason the whole world does not care about it.
At the expense of Chernobyl, the accident was then the result of experiments conducted by the Kremlin on Ukrainian soil. I can't say that it was a planned genocide of Ukrainians, but I heard that experiments were simply made at this station for the dissertation of some official in Moscow. Accordingly, the station was loaded beyond its capabilities. Further, the USSR tried to hide everything from the world as much as possible, as a result, the necessary assistance was not received in a timely manner.

Most of the consequences of the Chernobyl disaster have to be borne by Ukrainians and Belarusians - not by Russians themselves. And when the Russians threaten to use nuclear weapons today, they are at the same time threatening the countries around which they want to make the Russian Empire "great again". A paradox in itself.

The handling of Zaporizhzhya is clearly part of this questionable way of thinking.

I do not believe in safe nuclear power plants. Fukushima should be mentioned as an example. Here, too, there were timely indications of risk factors such as exist worldwide for nuclear power plants. And therefore I cannot forget them! Also because I live here in Europe and not somewhere else where Chernobyl was not noticeable except in the media.

And again: it is not only about the safety of nuclear power plants. It is also about the aftermath!


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2023, 16:36
However, I don't see any evidence that this propaganda is influencing political decisions on the whole, at least in Germany.

I'm fairy certain that most politicians do listen to the public opinion and act accordingly or else they don't get (re)elected (especially these days, when populism is on the rise).

From my point of view, only a small, albeit extreme, part of the population is impressed and influenced by Russian propaganda.

To your thesis about the hearing of politicians for the population:

Nuclear power plants are switched off here in Germany this month against the will of around 2 thirds of the population.

You make a good point here.
Nevertheless, no matter the reasons, one way or another, this decision plays right into putin's hand.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 12, 2023, 02:54
And when the Russians threaten to use nuclear weapons today, they are at the same time threatening the countries around which they want to make the Russian Empire "great again". A paradox in itself.
The great empire in Russian concerns only the titular nation, only Russians by nationality. All other occupied peoples in this empire as slaves, who are not sorry. Yes, and the Russians do not feel sorry for their own nation, in Russia there are only 2 cities in which the elect live, these are Moscow and St. Petersburg, these are the centers of the Russian empire. Now in Russia, the mobilization of the population for the war in Ukraine, in Moscow and St. Petersburg, few people are taken, driven to slaughter, mainly peoples of other nationalities or Russians by nationality from other cities.
Russia is a horde, originates from the Mongol-Tatar yoke, nothing has changed there. This empire lives only through murder, terrorism, occupation, enslavement and robbery. In this she sees her greatness.
How do you see your energy security without nuclear power plants?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 12, 2023, 03:14
And when the Russians threaten to use nuclear weapons today, they are at the same time threatening the countries around which they want to make the Russian Empire "great again". A paradox in itself.
The great empire in Russian concerns only the titular nation, only Russians by nationality. All other occupied peoples in this empire as slaves, who are not sorry. Yes, and the Russians do not feel sorry for their own nation, in Russia there are only 2 cities in which the elect live, these are Moscow and St. Petersburg, these are the centers of the Russian empire. Now in Russia, the mobilization of the population for the war in Ukraine, in Moscow and St. Petersburg, few people are taken, driven to slaughter, mainly peoples of other nationalities or Russians by nationality from other cities.
Russia is a horde, originates from the Mongol-Tatar yoke, nothing has changed there. This empire lives only through murder, terrorism, occupation, enslavement and robbery. In this she sees her greatness.
How do you see your energy security without nuclear power plants?

Personally, I am opposed to such generalizations. I believe that the majority of Russians - just like us - want peaceful coexistence. The discord is sown by those who in their narcissism strive for power, influence and more and more money. All over the globe. And these people try to push dictatorial measures so that they get even more power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 12, 2023, 04:06
And when the Russians threaten to use nuclear weapons today, they are at the same time threatening the countries around which they want to make the Russian Empire "great again". A paradox in itself.
The great empire in Russian concerns only the titular nation, only Russians by nationality. All other occupied peoples in this empire as slaves, who are not sorry. Yes, and the Russians do not feel sorry for their own nation, in Russia there are only 2 cities in which the elect live, these are Moscow and St. Petersburg, these are the centers of the Russian empire. Now in Russia, the mobilization of the population for the war in Ukraine, in Moscow and St. Petersburg, few people are taken, driven to slaughter, mainly peoples of other nationalities or Russians by nationality from other cities.
Russia is a horde, originates from the Mongol-Tatar yoke, nothing has changed there. This empire lives only through murder, terrorism, occupation, enslavement and robbery. In this she sees her greatness.
How do you see your energy security without nuclear power plants?

Personally, I am opposed to such generalizations. I believe that the majority of Russians - just like us - want peaceful coexistence. The discord is sown by those who in their narcissism strive for power, influence and more and more money. All over the globe. And these people try to push dictatorial measures so that they get even more power.
From a philosophical point of view, you are right. Children are also born innocent.
But do not forget that in Russia there is a totalitarian system, fascism, from childhood a person is fed only with propaganda and they say that there are only enemies around. Power in Russia is supported by approximately 80-90% of the population. Those who do not support have long since left. But among Russian emigrants in other countries there are also a lot of those who support Putin and the regime. The whole history of Russia is totalitarianism, autocracy, occupation and genocide of other nations.
So how do you see the existence of Germany without nuclear energy without energy resources? In fact, if you do not panic, but think, and divide the number of serious accidents at nuclear power plants by the total number of all nuclear power plants in the world, you will not get a large percentage. If you approach the issue wisely and correctly, you can quite live for some time with nuclear power plants, until humanity invents something safer. Nuclear power plants are still more environmentally friendly energy than burning coal or gas.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 12, 2023, 07:26

I believe that the majority of Russians - just like us - want peaceful coexistence. The discord is sown by those who in their narcissism strive for power, influence and more and more money. All over the globe. And these people try to push dictatorial measures so that they get even more power.

Check the reactions to this ISIS like beheading video that surfaced on russian social media and compare the number of likes, happy faces and hearts to the other reactions.
I know this is not representative for the whole population, but it's still telling a story, about how deep propaganda has cut into regular russians' brains.

https://twitter.com/apmassaro3/status/1645903680967700485
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: pancaketom on April 12, 2023, 11:59
I think a lot of the work of troll farms is to just amplify the conflict in other countries. Often they push both sides of an argument, and even have tried to foment physical conflict such as planning rallies pro or con something and then whipping up outrage on both sides. Of course this effort is aided by the social media algorithms that push controversy and engagement at all cost.

I think the final result of Russia's push to punish and control Europe with energy policy might be to hasten energy autonomy and the greener energy revolution.


Of course they can also push a specific agenda too.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 12, 2023, 14:46
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place. It's not that I take side of Russia but sure as hell the Western world is guilty here as well. Nobody cared when the Ukranian army was bombarding houses and people in the East of Ukraine because, hey, it was a pro-western government. Same as being lied to that the Western world have no part in this conflict while the leaked documents completely say the contrary. It goes way beyond sending weapons. All political play.
But I guess if the western world wants to wage war against russia then the split in the world community (everybody is taking sides now) actually started when the Westen world continued to work their way up east, USA, EU and NATO. History will tell and I know a lot of people don't see it now but for me it's pretty clear.
But good luck with destroying Russia. The world might be a better place without it, but I guess China is next and then maybe India until everybody lives as the USA and the EU dictates us how to live.
It worked also very well in Irak, Libia, Afghanistan and each country that the Western world had invaded and left in rubbles. They all had to be liberated and what paradises they have become :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 12, 2023, 15:13
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place. It's not that I take side of Russia but sure as hell the Western world is guilty here as well. Nobody cared when the Ukranian army was bombarding houses and people in the East of Ukraine because, hey, it was a pro-western government. Same as being lied to that the Western world have no part in this conflict while the leaked documents completely say the contrary. It goes way beyond sending weapons. All political play.
But I guess if the western world wants to wage war against russia then the split in the world community (everybody is taking sides now) actually started when the Westen world continued to work their way up east, USA, EU and NATO. History will tell and I know a lot of people don't see it now but for me it's pretty clear.
But good luck with destroying Russia. The world might be a better place without it, but I guess China is next and then maybe India until everybody lives as the USA and the EU dictates us how to live.
It worked also very well in Irak, Libia, Afghanistan and each country that the Western world had invaded and left in rubbles. They all had to be liberated and what paradises they have become :)

The problem is that Putin's aim for a very long time was to dismantle NATO and weaken the EU. He has systematically placed his puppets in as many leadership roles as possible, removed Britain from the EU, and controlled certain Western media (such as Fox News where he and Murdoch have had a long standing 'friendship') through election interference and other nefarious means.  This has been well documented by international Intelligence organizations, and whistleblowers from past organizations such as Cambridge Analytica.

I understand your comments about those middle east countries, but in most cases that was a different administration with different agendas.

But what do we do about Putin's ever-mounting control over democratic countries? Doesn't this remind you of the rise of the 1930s dictators? Didn't we learn from history that they should have been stopped well before world war started?

What you are saying may sound like fair and even rhetoric (repeated many times from elsewhere) - but all of our democratic freedoms are at stake. Yours included.



And its not just the EU or USA - it was here too. Its worldwide. Doesn't that scare the bejeebies out of you?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russia-foreign-interference-australian-election/100819910 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russia-foreign-interference-australian-election/100819910)

Quote
Russia has been identified as one of the main countries attempting to interfere in Australia's democracy, with intelligence agencies monitoring continuing efforts by Moscow to influence politics here.

A current intelligence source and a government source have confirmed the country's domestic spy agency, ASIO, has recently investigated at least one major effort to back pro-Russian figures for an unspecified Australian political contest.

Most details of the conspiracy remain hidden, but the ABC has confirmed it involved an individual based in Australia with close links to President Vladmir Putin's regime.

... "The point of difference between Russia and China is that Russia is an opportunistic interferer in elections anywhere in the Western world but, particularly, focusing on Five-Eyes [an intelligence-sharing network that includes Australia] and EU destabilisation".

Don't stop (or 'destroy' as you said) Russia - stop Putin and his propaganda machine.

...

On a sad note, Navalny may be dying, lawyers say he may be poisoned again.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-13/lawyers-for-jailed-russian-alexei-navalny-say-he-was-poisoned/102216460 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-13/lawyers-for-jailed-russian-alexei-navalny-say-he-was-poisoned/102216460)


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 12, 2023, 16:08
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place.

This is BS.
NATO is not expanding. NATO is joined.
NATO didn't expand in Finland last month. Finland decided to join the alliance.

There was never a promise, let alone a treaty denying the right of any other sovereign country, be it from east or west, to join NATO. There is no such thing.

Your are falling hard for the russian propaganda, mouthing Putin's words.

Moreover, you are deliberately confusing a popular uprising with a coup d'etat, falling, again, for the same russian propaganda.

Remind them that they are proud of their 1918 bolshevik revolution, not of their 1918 coup d'etat.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 12, 2023, 16:20
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place. It's not that I take side of Russia but sure as hell the Western world is guilty here as well. Nobody cared when the Ukranian army was bombarding houses and people in the East of Ukraine because, hey, it was a pro-western government. Same as being lied to that the Western world have no part in this conflict while the leaked documents completely say the contrary. It goes way beyond sending weapons. All political play.
But I guess if the western world wants to wage war against russia then the split in the world community (everybody is taking sides now) actually started when the Westen world continued to work their way up east, USA, EU and NATO. History will tell and I know a lot of people don't see it now but for me it's pretty clear.
But good luck with destroying Russia. The world might be a better place without it, but I guess China is next and then maybe India until everybody lives as the USA and the EU dictates us how to live.
It worked also very well in Irak, Libia, Afghanistan and each country that the Western world had invaded and left in rubbles. They all had to be liberated and what paradises they have become :)

The problem is that Putin's aim for a very long time was to dismantle NATO and weaken the EU. He has systematically placed his puppets in as many leadership roles as possible, removed Britain from the EU, and controlled certain Western media (such as Fox News where he and Murdoch have had a long standing 'friendship') through election interference and other nefarious means.  This has been well documented by international Intelligence organizations, and whistleblowers from past organizations such as Cambridge Analytica.

I understand your comments about those middle east countries, but in most cases that was a different administration with different agendas.

But what do we do about Putin's ever-mounting control over democratic countries? Doesn't this remind you of the rise of the 1930s dictators? Didn't we learn from history that they should have been stopped well before world war started?

What you are saying may sound like fair and even rhetoric (repeated many times from elsewhere) - but all of our democratic freedoms are at stake. Yours included.



And its not just the EU or USA - it was here too. Its worldwide. Doesn't that scare the bejeebies out of you?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russia-foreign-interference-australian-election/100819910 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-10/russia-foreign-interference-australian-election/100819910)

Quote
Russia has been identified as one of the main countries attempting to interfere in Australia's democracy, with intelligence agencies monitoring continuing efforts by Moscow to influence politics here.

A current intelligence source and a government source have confirmed the country's domestic spy agency, ASIO, has recently investigated at least one major effort to back pro-Russian figures for an unspecified Australian political contest.

Most details of the conspiracy remain hidden, but the ABC has confirmed it involved an individual based in Australia with close links to President Vladmir Putin's regime.

... "The point of difference between Russia and China is that Russia is an opportunistic interferer in elections anywhere in the Western world but, particularly, focusing on Five-Eyes [an intelligence-sharing network that includes Australia] and EU destabilisation".

Don't stop (or 'destroy' as you said) Russia - stop Putin and his propaganda machine.

.



If you would look at a historical map of how NATO grew over the last decades you will see that have taken a lot of ground towards Russia. Something America would not never have stand for it it happened to them. I really can't believe that Brexit was caused by the russians, more by EU restrictive rules how to rule your own country and they did not like it. America is divided but I also really don't think the russians had anything to do with that. That all parties want to get into eachother's kitchen is a given. According to the leaked documents (false or not) America has lot of contacts within the Kremlin. And sure russians will try the and have the same here. As well as the australians, english, german, french and chinese in whichever country they please. I can give you tons of articles from respected media that reported that.

What scares me is that everybody seems to be on a war path. I see America poking all countries they don't like and the EU is joining them in the poking. I understand there are economical things at play but it could get rather messy if we continue poking everyone. And that is certainly the current administration doing that, not the previous one.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 12, 2023, 16:35
I really can't believe that Brexit was caused by the russians,

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/11/25/russian-interference-ii-brexit-and-the-great-cambridge-analytica-hack/ (https://bylinetimes.com/2019/11/25/russian-interference-ii-brexit-and-the-great-cambridge-analytica-hack/)

https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/whistleblower-cambridge-analytica-shared-data-with-russia/ (https://www.euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/whistleblower-cambridge-analytica-shared-data-with-russia/)

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/cambridge-academic-trawling-facebook-had-links-to-russian-university (https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/cambridge-academic-trawling-facebook-had-links-to-russian-university)

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/04/20/did-cambridge-analytica-collude-with-russias-intelligence-services-to-interfere-in-us-elections/ (https://bylinetimes.com/2021/04/20/did-cambridge-analytica-collude-with-russias-intelligence-services-to-interfere-in-us-elections/)

https://www.dw.com/en/what-role-did-cambridge-analytica-play-in-the-brexit-vote/a-43151460 (https://www.dw.com/en/what-role-did-cambridge-analytica-play-in-the-brexit-vote/a-43151460)




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 12, 2023, 16:41
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place.

This is BS.
NATO is not expanding. NATO is joined.
NATO didn't expand in Finland last month. Finland decided to join the alliance.

There was never a promise, let alone a treaty denying the right of any other sovereign country, be it from east or west, to join NATO. There is no such thing.

Your are falling hard for the russian propaganda, mouthing Putin's words.

Moreover, you are deliberately confusing a popular uprising with a coup d'etat, falling, again, for the same russian propaganda.

Remind them that their are proud of their 1918 bolshevik revolution, not of their 1918 coup d'etat.  ;)

Agreements were made but not on paper. But certainly recognized by all parties. I am not falling for anything, it's not hard to study what happened in Ukraine through history and how the EU started to pull at them having even european politicians standing on Maiden square during the so called uprising. But they have won and people in the east were left behind. They did not want to join the EU but that was not respected. In fact for ten years they were attacked, drove out of their houses ans stripped of all their rights. I did not hear you then. And if you think a part of a country can liberate themselves by an uprise, as the west of Ukraine did, then I would imagine you will stand also with the basks and catalonian people in Spain, the Vlemish people in Belgium, the Northern Italians in Italy,  the Irish, the Scottish people, people in Cyprus, and I guess there will also be certain groups of people that would like to distance themselves from the federal government in the USA. But somehow when it's not to your liking then that freedom's stride is not acknowledged or is it? That is called hypocrisy in my opinion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 12, 2023, 16:59

Agreements were made but not on paper. But certainly recognized by all parties. I am not falling for anything,

Yes. You do.
How naive or stupid do you think the soviets were, to trust a verbal promise, instead of a written one?

They were neither naive nor stupid, because such thing never existed.

What was the discussed, back when the German reunification was negotiated, was whether or not the West German army (part of NATO) to be allowed to move into East Germany.
"East", during this negotiation only meant "East Germany", not anything else.
Obviously, a reunited Germany couldn't accept not to control the eastern part of country, and, in the end, everybody agreed, soviets inclusive, that NATO troops could move into East Germany.

In exchange, the soviet army was given extra time to withdraw.

That's it.

Nothing else was discussed about any other country, because all other East European countries were part of the Warsaw treaty.
Back then, it was unconceivable for all negociators, soviets inclusive, that the Warsaw treaty would ever cease to exist.

Putin is now claiming that "east" meant every other country in Eastern-Europe.
He implies that the soviets who negotiated the deal were stupid.

Nonsense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 12, 2023, 23:31
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place.

This is BS.
NATO is not expanding. NATO is joined.
NATO didn't expand in Finland last month. Finland decided to join the alliance.

There was never a promise, let alone a treaty denying the right of any other sovereign country, be it from east or west, to join NATO. There is no such thing.

Your are falling hard for the russian propaganda, mouthing Putin's words.


Here we go again  ;D

You are the only spreading the propaganda about this matter...because it was clearly promised multiple times


Once again , one of those times on February 9. 1990, memorandum transcript published by National Security Archive at George Washington University in Washington, DC. Secretary of State Baker reassured Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev “not once, but three times” NATO will not expand to the east.

I'll quote Baker: “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.”



The document itself, black on white:

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16116-document-05-memorandum-conversation-between (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16116-document-05-memorandum-conversation-between)



I really don't understand Russians and Americans thinking that the rest of world is stupid not seeing the dominance games they are playing on cost on innocent people in the world.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 13, 2023, 05:10
The world is full of trolls.

Even in democratic countries.

Because of one of these trolls this thread was opened.
He has been lying and twisting facts for a long time. Yet he has an immense following. Who believe him blindly. I certainly don't mean to imply that there are only angels in the democratic ranks. But Trump is clearly a greater danger to democracy.

Brexit:
Farage, Smith and Johnson have been telling brazen lies to push the Brexit. Among other things, they claimed that the UK would transfer £350 million a week to the EU (the figure is false) and this money would be invested in the UK health service after Brexit. They later distanced themselves from this lie. There are, of course, other lies that have blown up on their own as the UK has evolved.

Iraq:
Colin Powell, George W. Bush and Tony Blair ushered in the Iraq war with a brazen lie. The evidence of weapons of mass destruction. Powell bitterly regretted this before his death.

In general, we should always keep in mind that we too are fueled by propaganda - not just the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 13, 2023, 05:47
The strengthening and expansion of NATO is also partly due to Russian misconduct after 1990. There were military invasions or interventions in countries of the (former) Russian Federation that were striving for independence. Partly, although these countries were open to negotiations.
This in turn led to the countries that had also historically been affected by similar Russian invasions seeking protection in NATO in particular.

Putin himself stated during a press conference in 2004 that Russia was not worried about NATO enlargement with regard to the security of the Russian Federation.

Incidentally, Mikhail Gorbachev himself had thought about NATO membership.

Lavrov had said in an interview in 2005 - with regard to a potential NATO accession of Ukraine and Hungary - that every state had the right to choose its partners and organizations itself. Russia recognizes this right.


I readily admit that I can understand that Russia feels its security interests are threatened as NATO moves ever closer. But NATO has not persuaded or forced any of these states to do so. These countries initiated the membership application of their own volition (and security needs). As was recently the case in Finland, where the majority of the population had always opposed NATO membership in the past. Now the people feel threatened in their security and are afraid of a Russian invasion.

Incidentally, there was the Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine was promised state sovereignty (we now know how this worked out) if it disarmed all nuclear weapons. Ukraine has implemented the latter.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2023, 06:17
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place.

This is BS.
NATO is not expanding. NATO is joined.
NATO didn't expand in Finland last month. Finland decided to join the alliance.

There was never a promise, let alone a treaty denying the right of any other sovereign country, be it from east or west, to join NATO. There is no such thing.

Your are falling hard for the russian propaganda, mouthing Putin's words.


Here we go again  ;D

You are the only spreading the propaganda about this matter...because it was clearly promised multiple times


Once again , one of those times on February 9. 1990, memorandum transcript published by National Security Archive at George Washington University in Washington, DC. Secretary of State Baker reassured Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev “not once, but three times” NATO will not expand to the east.

I'll quote Baker: “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.”



The document itself, black on white:

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16116-document-05-memorandum-conversation-between (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16116-document-05-memorandum-conversation-between)



I really don't understand Russians and Americans thinking that the rest of world is stupid not seeing the dominance games they are playing on cost on innocent people in the world.

"Back in Washington, the National Security Council staff was alarmed. The word “jurisdiction” could imply that the NATO doctrine of collective defense would apply only to part of German territory, limiting German sovereignty. It was one thing to agree not to move troops into the East right away, as far as American officials were concerned, but all of Germany had to be part of NATO.

“The N.S.C. got to him pretty quickly and said that language might be misinterpreted,” Condoleezza Rice, then a Soviet adviser to Mr. Bush and later secretary of state under President George W. Bush, remembered in an interview for a biography of Mr. Baker.

Mr. Baker got the message and began walking back his words by ditching the term “jurisdiction” from all future discussions. Chancellor Helmut Kohl of West Germany likewise rejected Mr. Genscher’s formulation.

“I may have been a little bit forward on my skis on that, but they changed it and he knew that they changed it,” Mr. Baker recalled of Mr. Gorbachev. “He never once again in all the months that followed ever raised the question of NATO expanding its jurisdiction eastward. He then signed documents in which NATO did expand its jurisdiction.”

When Mr. Baker returned to Moscow in May, he offered what were called the nine reassurances, including a commitment to allow Soviet troops in East Germany to remain for a transition period and not extend NATO forces into that territory until they left. This was hardly a promise not to extend the alliance east, but he insisted to the Soviets that this was the best the United States could do.
Mr. Gorbachev eventually agreed. The final treaty unifying Germany later in 1990 barred foreign troops from the old East Germany, but German troops assigned to NATO could be deployed there once Soviet forces withdrew by the end of 1994. Nothing in the treaty addressed NATO expansion beyond that.

“Now remember, it’s not clear the Soviet Union is going to collapse at this point,” Dr. Rice recalled. “It’s not even clear that the Warsaw Pact is going to collapse. This is about the unification of Germany.” She added, “The expansion of NATO was just not on the table as an issue in ’90-’91.”

No less a witness agreed than Mr. Gorbachev. “The topic of ‘NATO expansion’ was not discussed at all, and it wasn’t brought up in those years,” he told an interviewer after Russia’s intervention in Ukraine seven years ago. The issue was foreign troops in eastern Germany. “Baker’s statement” about not one inch “was made in that context,” Mr. Gorbachev said. “Everything that could have been and needed to be done to solidify that political obligation was done. And fulfilled.”


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2023, 09:02
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place. It's not that I take side of Russia but sure as hell the Western world is guilty here as well. Nobody cared when the Ukranian army was bombarding houses and people in the East of Ukraine because, hey, it was a pro-western government. Same as being lied to that the Western world have no part in this conflict while the leaked documents completely say the contrary. It goes way beyond sending weapons. All political play.
Every word is a lie and a copy of Russian propaganda. Do not write more in this thread, I do not read Russian propaganda. This applies to all your subsequent posts.
The Ukrainian army does not fire at civilians and their homes, this is all done by Russian fascists and Russian occupiers.

But I guess if the western world wants to wage war against russia then the split in the world community (everybody is taking sides now) actually started when the Westen world continued to work their way up east, USA, EU and NATO. History will tell and I know a lot of people don't see it now but for me it's pretty clear.
But good luck with destroying Russia. The world might be a better place without it, but I guess China is next and then maybe India until everybody lives as the USA and the EU dictates us how to live.
It worked also very well in Irak, Libia, Afghanistan and each country that the Western world had invaded and left in rubbles. They all had to be liberated and what paradises they have become :)
This is Russian propaganda, there are 99 percent lies here.

p.s. I will be forced to add you to ignore.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2023, 09:08
You can also argue that if the Western world did not participate in the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and Nato stayed with it's promise not to get closer to Russian's border all of this would not have taken place.

This is BS.
NATO is not expanding. NATO is joined.
NATO didn't expand in Finland last month. Finland decided to join the alliance.

There was never a promise, let alone a treaty denying the right of any other sovereign country, be it from east or west, to join NATO. There is no such thing.

Your are falling hard for the russian propaganda, mouthing Putin's words.


Here we go again  ;D

You are the only spreading the propaganda about this matter...because it was clearly promised multiple times


Once again , one of those times on February 9. 1990, memorandum transcript published by National Security Archive at George Washington University in Washington, DC. Secretary of State Baker reassured Soviet Premier Mikhail Gorbachev “not once, but three times” NATO will not expand to the east.

I'll quote Baker: “not only for the Soviet Union but for other European countries as well it is important to have guarantees that if the United States keeps its presence in Germany within the framework of NATO, not an inch of NATO’s present military jurisdiction will spread in an eastern direction.”



The document itself, black on white:

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16116-document-05-memorandum-conversation-between (https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/16116-document-05-memorandum-conversation-between)



I really don't understand Russians and Americans thinking that the rest of world is stupid not seeing the dominance games they are playing on cost on innocent people in the world.
These are all oral conversations, the USSR is no longer on the world map for 30 years. The legal successor of the USSR are many states, incl. and Ukraine.

Russia violated the Budapest non-aggression memorandum on Ukraine, which it signed itself and in which it was the guarantor of non-aggression. Any agreements with Russia are not even worth the paper on which they are written. Russia is a fascist and terrorist country. Everyone knows what to do with terrorists and what kind of conversation should be with them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2023, 11:59
And if you think a part of a country can liberate themselves by an uprise, as the west of Ukraine did, then I would imagine you will stand also with the basks and catalonian people in Spain, the Vlemish people in Belgium, the Northern Italians in Italy,  the Irish, the Scottish people, people in Cyprus, and I guess there will also be certain groups of people that would like to distance themselves from the federal government in the USA. But somehow when it's not to your liking then that freedom's stride is not acknowledged or is it? That is called hypocrisy in my opinion.

Ukraine was de-facto a Russian colony, with a Russian puppet as a president.

When Ghandi's uprising got rid of the British colonialism in India, was that a coup?

The Euromaidan was less violent that what Romanians did when they killed Ceauşescu in 1989 to get rid of communism and russian influence. Was that a coup?

It was less violent than what the russians did in 1918, when they massacred the imperial family. Was that a coup?

It was less violent than what the Americans did when they gained their independence from the British colonialism. Was that a coup?

It was less violent than what the French did when they chopped the King's head. Was that a coup?

In 2014, Yanukovych fled, unharmed, to Russia where he continues to live a happy life even today. Why was this a coup?

Moreover, popular uprisings, manifested through massive demonstrations, led to resignations of those in power in several other cases, in modern days. Are all these coups, by your definition?

No foreign power invaded Spain, Italy or Belgium to restore order.
Regional differences are everywhere. Nothing justifies an invasion, killings, rape, plunder and terror.

PS. remember that another pro-EU president, Yushchenko, was poisoned with dioxin, obviously by the russians who grew upset to see their colony attempting to gain its independence. Shouldn't this murder attempt alone warrant a popular uprising?

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2023, 13:08
But they have won and people in the east were left behind. They did not want to join the EU but that was not respected. In fact for ten years they were attacked, drove out of their houses ans stripped of all their rights. I did not hear you then. And if you think a part of a country can liberate themselves by an uprise, as the west of Ukraine did,
This is the citation of false Russian propaganda.
There is no west and east in Ukraine. There is only Donbass, or rather 2 regions included in it, these are Donetsk and Luhansk. So, part of these regions - 1/3, was occupied by Russia in 2014. Russia sent its troops without identification marks, just as it sent its troops into Crimea without identification marks also in 2014. This is how terrorists operate. Further, Russia recruited separatists and collaborators into its ranks, in general, all those who were ready to betray Ukraine and break the law for money. In the case of Crimea, Russia held a fake referendum, in violation of the Ukrainian constitution and international treaties, and annexed Crimea. In the case of Donbas, Russia called the territories it occupied republics and said that its troops were not there. In 2022, Russia went even further, it annexed not only Donbass, but also the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions, holding regular fake referendums at gunpoint.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2023, 13:10
So, in fact, in 2013 and 2014 there were no mass voluntary protests of residents of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions against the EU or NATO. Any large-scale rallies there were gathered only by order of the directors of enterprises, who were afraid of losing their enterprises and losing their lives. In those areas, FSB agents have long been operating, who have promoted Ukrainians recruited by Russia to the necessary positions. Therefore, there is no need to refer to the people, when there was Maidan in Ukraine, no residents of the Donbass went there. In fact, the inhabitants of the Donbass are slaves who did not have their own opinion and were afraid to do anything at all (they could either be fired from their jobs or killed), because. This region was under the control of Russian agents.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 13, 2023, 13:14


Russia violated the Budapest non-aggression memorandum on Ukraine, which it signed itself and in which it was the guarantor of non-aggression. Any agreements with Russia are not even worth the paper on which they are written. Russia is a fascist and terrorist country. Everyone knows what to do with terrorists and what kind of conversation should be with them.

Sure they are. And so are US with moves like aggression on a country against the will of UN based on false clam off possession of weapons of mass destruction. With those acts they brought half of the middle east 300 years back in history bringing terrorists and insane religious groups to power.
On another case, hilarious number of Syrian refuges that US accepted clearly speaks how much they wanted to help and millions ended up in Europe.

Russia and US don't GAF about international war laws, they don't allow international processes against their war criminals and so on. They are both prosecuting whistle blowers, violating their human rights, they both have laws allowing imprisoning people without a single evidence of crime and so on.

Millions of civilians died in between their world dominance games and who ever wins will just allow their corporations to come and suck anything profitable that the country has to offer.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2023, 13:20
Lizard, if you cannot distinguish terrorism and fascism from democracy, then talking to you is pointless. You are quoting Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 13, 2023, 13:25
Lizard, if you cannot distinguish terrorism and fascism from democracy, then talking to you is pointless. You are quoting Russian propaganda.

No you are the one not being able to distinguish , or better to say find the common traits they offer. Cause what happened on the middle east was same blatant agression as its happening now in Ukraine against the will of all the others in the democratic world.

Well you aint just gonna troll here peacefully without hearing the truth. Talk to Assange and Snowden about democracy. You are quoting your propaganda spreading lies and wrapping them as it suits you. Russia and US are highly aggressive countries despite the differences in how the government calls themself within the society. While Russians are killing innocent Ukrainians US tankers are blatantly stealing Syrian oil on daily basis as we speak.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 13, 2023, 13:30
And Leaf, i think its about time to lock this troll factory orgy thing because we will end up on countries built on slavery, killing and keeping native people in reservation camps, always fresh European colonialism and all the beautiful things democracy has to share with communism. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2023, 13:35
Lizard, you probably read in the Russian "press" about the theft of Syrian oil by the United States? The key word here is theft. You probably think Assad is a good person. Do you happen to live in Russia? You should go to live in Russia, you will be 100% your boyfriend.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2023, 13:46
You don't see that often such a blatant example of #whataboutism as the one Lizard is making.

What he is saying is that Bill can cheat at his exams, because John did also cheat.
"Whatabout John"?

Wrong.

This attitude is normalizing cheating and this is fundamentaly wrong.

Cheating is wrong.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy.

You can't use whataboutism to give Putin a pass and normalize his terror, killings, rape and plunder.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 13, 2023, 15:24
Despite the controversial topic, this has actually been quite an interesting thread so far in an international exchange.

Is there any possibility to transfer the posts of the three confused forum members stoker2014, lizard, svh into a kind of rubber cell thread and leave them alone there?  ;) ::)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 13, 2023, 16:03
You don't see that often such a blatant example of #whataboutism as the one Lizard is making.

What he is saying is that Bill can cheat at his exams, because John did also cheat.
"Whatabout John"?

Wrong.

This attitude is normalizing cheating and this is fundamentaly wrong.

Cheating is wrong.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy.

You can't use whataboutism to give Putin a pass and normalize his terror, killings, rape and plunder.

Which sentence I wrote is giving Putin pass to anything ?  I can easilly quote myself calling Putin an id.iot and Russia an aggressor multiple times for doing what they are doing.

Now, can you quote yourself one single sentence calling John a terrorist ? Once, for multiple invasions.

Should we all just be focused on Bill and let John do its thing with his killings ?

Or its alright, because John is an democrat ? We can focus on Bills obviously aggressive history but John killing 56 MILLIONS of natives is whataboutism and shouldn't be mentioned?

Well in that case ill be whatabouting without regrets.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 13, 2023, 16:35
Despite the controversial topic, this has actually been quite an interesting thread so far in an international exchange.


Yes, I agree. Leaf - please don't take this thread down.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2023, 16:36
You don't see that often such a blatant example of #whataboutism as the one Lizard is making.

What he is saying is that Bill can cheat at his exams, because John did also cheat.
"Whatabout John"?

Wrong.

This attitude is normalizing cheating and this is fundamentaly wrong.

Cheating is wrong.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy.

You can't use whataboutism to give Putin a pass and normalize his terror, killings, rape and plunder.

Which sentence I wrote is giving Putin pass to anything ?  I can easilly quote myself calling Putin an id.iot and Russia an aggressor multiple times for doing what they are doing.

Now, can you quote yourself one single sentence calling John a terrorist ? Once, for multiple invasions.

Should we all just be focused on Bill and let John do its thing with his killings ?

Or its alright, because John is an democrat ? We can focus on Bills obviously aggressive history but John killing 56 MILLIONS of natives is whataboutism and shouldn't be mentioned?

Well in that case ill be whatabouting without regrets.

No, read what I said above.
Cheating is wrong.
Nobody gets a pass for cheating. Neither Bill nor John.

Now, besides Putin being an idiot, can we agree that what russia is doing to Ukraine is an unjustifiable abomination?
Terror, beheadings of pow, torture, killings of innocent civilians (women and children inclusive), rape, deportation of children, plunder?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 13, 2023, 16:41



No, read what I said above.
Cheating is wrong.
Nobody gets a pass for cheating. Neither Bill nor John.

Now can we agree that what russia is doing to Ukraine is an unjustifiable abomination?
Terror, beheadings of pow, torture, killings, rape, plunder?

Sure it is, and there is no excuse for that. Torture, aggression, rape, genocide...

Now, do we agree US did absolutely the same to multiple countries, cause it seems to me you are avoiding to say it up loud ?

Not cheating, lets call it invasion, aggression, terror, killing and genocide ?

And not only them but the rest of European and other worlds wannabe testosterone imperialists of multiple ...isms
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2023, 16:49
Yes, as I said. Nobody is getting a pass.

Rest assured that many Americans openly oppose such decisions and are actively fighting to prevent repeating such mistakes.

Way too often an anti-American sentiment is translated through whataboutism in a justification for russian atrocities, diverting the attention from the tragedy Ukraine is going through.

I'm glad to see that we can agree on something.

 🇺🇦 Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 13, 2023, 17:04
Yes, as I said. Nobody is getting a pass.

Rest assured that many Americans are openly opposing such decisions, and are actively fighting to prevent the repetition of such mistakes.

Way to often an anti-American sentiment is translated through whataboutism in a justification for russian attrocities.

I'm glad to see that we can agree on something.

 🇺🇦 Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

And most likely many Russians are opposing in any justification of this terror. There are just not enough of them and lion nations keep doing their job.

And the sad thing is that not human well-being but profit and mostly corporate profit is the main force behind genocides of any kind with puppet fools with their nationalism hiding behind patriotism dancing on that music.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2023, 17:28
Yes, as I said. Nobody is getting a pass.

Rest assured that many Americans openly oppose such decisions and are actively fighting to prevent repeating such mistakes.

Way too often an anti-American sentiment is translated through whataboutism in a justification for russian atrocities.

I'm glad to see that we can agree on something.

 🇺🇦 Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦

And most likely many Russians are opposing in any justification of this terror. There are just not enough of them and lion nations keep doing their job.

And the sad thing is that not human well-being but profit and mostly corporate profit is the main force behind genocides of any kind with puppet fools with their nationalism hiding behind patriotism dancing on that music.

Now that's your marxist ideology speaking.  :)

Way too few russians are opposing the war, since the brainwashing state propaganda and the state control over media don't leave too many options for the truth to break through.
There is no comparison between the debates in a democratic society and what happens in russia.
I hope we can agree on this.

russian imperialism and colonialism have deep roots, but today it is also targeting the rich eastern Ukraine and Black Sea resources.

Maybe not so much for corporate profits, since in a fascist state, corporations must obey their supreme leader, but rather for state profits, for the well-being of the rich corrupt state officials, and for the military strength as a way to consolidate their power long-term.

 🇺🇦 Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 13, 2023, 21:28



Way too few russians are opposing the war, since the brainwashing state propaganda and the state control over media doesn't leave too many options for the truth to break through.

As we speak Jack Teixeira was arrested for letting the truth break trough. Truth that slightly varies from "Jacks" propaganda. 

So, not really, I don't see to much differences in state controls just the names and methods are a bit different but aiming the same thing, to smash anyone telling the truth that proves his country runs on lies and propaganda and punish him badly as example for others.

Honestly I never saw an article in any American relevant media calling the veterans terrorists and murderers when returning from "defending" the country from some invasion on a weaker nation on the other side of the globe based on false evidences blatantly thrown in the face of the rest of the civilized word to justify that . I just see thanking them from their service. 

And if you see a different picture that's because you want to see the different picture. In the meanwhile you have a lot of interesting readings in comments sections of main European news sites to check what most of the 3. side people think about that in what we like to call the democratic western world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2023, 22:18



Way too few russians are opposing the war, since the brainwashing state propaganda and the state control over media doesn't leave too many options for the truth to break through.

As we speak Jack Teixeira was arrested for letting the truth break trough. Truth that slightly varies from "Jacks" propaganda. 

So, not really, I don't see to much differences in state controls just the names and methods are a bit different but aiming the same thing, to smash anyone telling the truth that proves his country runs on lies and propaganda and punish him badly as example for others.

Honestly I never saw an article in any American relevant media calling the veterans terrorists and murderers when returning from "defending" the country from some invasion on a weaker nation on the other side of the globe based on false evidences blatantly thrown in the face of the rest of the civilized word to justify that . I just see thanking them from their service. 

And if you see a different picture that's because you want to see the different picture. In the meanwhile you have a lot of interesting readings in comments sections of main European news sites to check what most of the 3. side people think about that in what we like to call the democratic western world.

Ooh, there is a massive difference!
NY Times, WSJ are running pages and pages about this story.
Something that you would never see in the russian media if this will be the other way around.

Fox News is ripping Biden a new one, and neither Tucker Carlson nor Sean Hannity are accidentally falling from a balcony.

That's the debate you will never see in putin's russia.
There is a massive difference but your anti-Americanism is preventing you from seeing clearly.

Anyway, you can't refrain from bringing over and over again your whataboutism in the discussion.

TODAY It's not about the USA.

TODAY is about Ukraine, about its independence and teritorial integrity being trampled by the russian invaders.

TODAY is about russian soldiers killing people, children and women inclusive, torturing, beheading, raping, plundering, and destroying Ukraine.

TODAY you must condemn all that from the bottom of your heart, instead of spinning and deflecting. Nothing is justifying what happens in Ukraine, TODAY.

I remind you that no American soldier has killed anyone during an invasion of a sovereign country, TODAY.

You will be perfectly justified to condemn The USA when an American soldier will do that.
And I'll join you in that condemnation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on April 14, 2023, 01:56
It's hilarious reading americans talking about imperialism, colonialism or "brainwashing". Opinions about Ukraine... most of americans never heard about that country before so... again hilarious talking about democracy, freeedom or Zelenky's leadership. Must be a joke.

It's interesting you don't ask for proper roads, food, hospitals or houses in your own country instead of hailing wars.  Should be the antiamericanism... The point is the next war is not going to be like the preceding. Maybe you don't have nothing to lose in all this s. I understand.

Not the same here.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on April 14, 2023, 02:08
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.

This kind of s. is happening in all western countries. USA is more scaring because of your weapons everywhere but most of elections at this time are Red Devil Vs. Blue Devil. I heard this joke in a argentinian documentary many years ago and now we all are in the same situation.




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2023, 03:57
Sure it is, and there is no excuse for that. Torture, aggression, rape, genocide...

Now, do we agree US did absolutely the same to multiple countries, cause it seems to me you are avoiding to say it up loud ?

Not cheating, lets call it invasion, aggression, terror, killing and genocide ?

And not only them but the rest of European and other worlds wannabe testosterone imperialists of multiple ...isms
What a lie, what a delusion. You are trying to attribute the guilt of the fascists and terrorism to democratic countries. And in this way you are trying to divert people's attention from the crimes of the Russians. You act according to the manuals of the KGB. Like, yes, we are bad, but everyone around is also bad and there is no justice anywhere.
The US and EU countries do not engage in genocide and murder. The US Army, if it fights, then only with the enemy army, while observing all the Geneva Conventions. The same Saddam Hussein was a tyrant.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2023, 04:01
The Russian Federation is a prison of nations.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2023, 04:07
🇺🇦 Slava Ukraini! 🇺🇦
Glory to the heroes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 15, 2023, 14:19
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

You may think what you want about it (currently, according to polls, about 60% were against the shutdown at this time), but should take into account the following factors:

40% of the uranium imported in Europe comes from Russia and its ally Kazakhstan.
From Niger, from Canada and from Australia comes almost all the rest. The uranium there is often (70%) on the territories of indigenous peoples, whose health is damaged there and whose livelihoods are successively destroyed by mining.

Switzerland, for example, purchased most of its uranium from the Russian state-owned Rosatom in 2022.

Rosatom (founded by Putin in 2007) is the world's second largest uranium producer through interests in uranium mines in Kazakhstan, the U.S. and Canada.

The Czech Republic, Hungary, Finland, Slovakia and Bulgaria obtain 100% of their uranium from Russia. However, I do not know to what extent this has changed very recently.

Nuclear power and gas-generated electricity were by far the most expensive way to generate electricity in Germany - and that doesn't include the cost of thousands of years of storage. Wind and solar power are the cheapest.

By the way, in 2022, 33 of 56 nuclear power plants in France were idle. That’s why France had to import so much electricity. At 18 of them, maintenance is taking longer than planned, at 12 there are rust problems, at others electricity production had to be reduced because rivers were too warm. This also affects Switzerland, which has to import electricity in winter and now relies more on hydropower.
By the way, a record number of nuclear power plants will be shut down in the USA in 2021 - also because of more electricity from renewable energies.

Russia is a country that is extremely rich in raw materials. It cannot be in Russia's interest for countries that have been supplied with raw materials to gradually become self-sufficient in energy. Possibly, therefore, Russia is also "trolling" the greatness of nuclear power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 15, 2023, 19:02
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened.  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P (https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2023, 03:21
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.
If Germany knows that there will be hostilities in the EU, then of course it is better not to have a nuclear power plant on its territory at all.
No matter how it all ends with the fact that Germany will again begin to buy energy from Russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 03:55
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened.  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P (https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P)

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 04:01
Additional:

The Russian state energy corporation Rosatom is also building two new nuclear power plants in Hungary. Hungary, by the way, strongly criticizes the economic sanctions against Russia.

"(Eastern) Europe is even more dependent on Russian fuel: 18 reactors in the EU can only run on hexagonal Russian fuel: in Finland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia and Bulgaria. "In order to be able to supply the two Slovakian nuclear power plants with new fuel elements, a Russian Il-76 transport plane was even allowed to land on March 1 with special permission," criticizes Uwe Witt, climate protection and structural change officer at the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation. "If Europe really wants to end its dependence on Russia in the energy sector, it must also stop its cooperation with Russia in the nuclear sector as soon as possible."

Rosatom, on the other hand, is focusing on expansion: in addition to three nuclear power plants in Russia, it plans to build 35 more in Egypt, Bangladesh, Belarus, Bulgaria, China, Finland, India, Iran, Turkey, Hungary and the United Arab Emirates."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 04:28
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.
If Germany knows that there will be hostilities in the EU, then of course it is better not to have a nuclear power plant on its territory at all.
No matter how it all ends with the fact that Germany will again begin to buy energy from Russia.

By the way, the Russian economy is growing - despite the EU sanctions. Coal exports to India have quadrupled. Oil exports to China, India and Turkey have increased very strongly. Furthermore, Turkey is planning a large transhipment point for Russian gas.

I believe that the sales markets China and India are many times more attractive for Russia than Germany (or the EU). Perhaps this is also the reason why there is no criticism of the Russian invasion of Ukraine from China and India.

You should actually welcome the fact that Germany is trying to become self-sufficient in energy. We are aware that this path will not be easy. But at least we are trying. In the medium to long term, we can manage to become independent of Russian energy. That would be a great achievement.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2023, 04:35
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.
If Germany knows that there will be hostilities in the EU, then of course it is better not to have a nuclear power plant on its territory at all.
No matter how it all ends with the fact that Germany will again begin to buy energy from Russia.

By the way, the Russian economy is growing - despite the EU sanctions. Coal exports to India have quadrupled. Oil exports to China, India and Turkey have increased very strongly. Furthermore, Turkey is planning a large transhipment point for Russian gas.

I believe that the sales markets China and India are many times more attractive for Russia than Germany (or the EU). Perhaps this is also the reason why there is no criticism of the Russian invasion of Ukraine from China and India.

Not certainly in that way. The sanctions have driven Russian energy prices below market levels. China and India at very low prices buy anything from Russia. And the sanctions also apply to logistics. Now the Russian economy is in decline, if you do not read the Russian "press" of course.
But I agree that there are few sanctions against Russia, even at low prices, but no one should buy anything from Russia.
Sanctions against Rosatom are also needed, which do not exist. Otherwise, the world, like 100 years ago, by its actions creates a new Nazi state, which will then begin to kill everyone. I do not accept the policy of double standards.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2023, 04:38
"(Eastern) Europe is even more dependent on Russian fuel
I am sure that these are all the results of Merkel work.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2023, 04:40
The more the world will support such countries as Russia, China, Iran, the closer the world will be to a world war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 16, 2023, 07:43
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened.  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P (https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P)

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."

Australia has about 30% of the world's uranium. Buy more from us! ;)

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx (https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx)

Actually, I cringe that I even wrote that (even in jest). When I was in my 20s, I used to protest against uranium mining in Australia. (of course, we have coal as well *sigh*)

In my heart of hearts, I've always been against stripping our world of its natural resources. What happened with wind and solar power? A few years ago, I thought Germany was a European leader in renewable energy. Or am I wrong, Wilm?

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 16, 2023, 09:59
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened.  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P (https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P)

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."

Australia has about 30% of the world's uranium. Buy more from us! ;)

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx (https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx)

Actually, I cringe that I even wrote that (even in jest). When I was in my 20s, I used to protest against uranium mining in Australia. (of course, we have coal as well *sigh*)

In my heart of hearts, I've always been against stripping our world of its natural resources. What happened with wind and solar power? A few years ago, I thought Germany was a European leader in renewable energy. Or am I wrong, Wilm?

As far as Europe is concerned, that is correct, Annie. In a global comparison, Germany is in third place, behind the USA in second place and China in first place.
That refers to the amount of energy in TWh that is generated from renewable energy sources in these countries.

If you were to convert that to the amount generated and consumed per capita, the Scandinavians in particular would be way out in front.

In terms of our electricity consumption, 51.5% in Germany is now generated from renewables. However, the share accounted for by lignite and hard coal is still very high at 30.5% in the first quarter of 2023.

But that's just the topic of electricity. Electricity accounts for only 20% of our total German energy requirements. Energy demand for mobility, industry and much more changes the balance extremely.
Here, oil (33%) and gas (27%) are the main energy sources. In order to create more independence here, an extremely large amount of change must still take place. There is still a very long way to go.

Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.

But electromobility also brings with it dependency problems. Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe. Large deposits have been found in Sweden, but in general, Europeans are extremely dependent on imports. It's a vicious circle.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2023, 15:30
Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe.
“Ukraine has significant reserves of non-ferrous and rare earth metals, including unique deposits of beryllium, zirconium, tantalum, as well as a complex of phosphorus rare earth and rare metal ores,” reports MiningWorld. “The confirmed reserves of lithium in Ukraine are the largest in Europe. The country also has a real opportunity to enter the world market with pure and ultra-pure metals such as gallium, indium, thallium, lead and tin… Ukraine needs to use its mineral resources to prosper. This requires new technologies and large investments.”
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on April 16, 2023, 15:37
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened.  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P (https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P)

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."

Australia has about 30% of the world's uranium. Buy more from us! ;)

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx (https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx)

Actually, I cringe that I even wrote that (even in jest). When I was in my 20s, I used to protest against uranium mining in Australia. (of course, we have coal as well *sigh*)

In my heart of hearts, I've always been against stripping our world of its natural resources. What happened with wind and solar power? A few years ago, I thought Germany was a European leader in renewable energy. Or am I wrong, Wilm?

As far as Europe is concerned, that is correct, Annie. In a global comparison, Germany is in third place, behind the USA in second place and China in first place.
That refers to the amount of energy in TWh that is generated from renewable energy sources in these countries.

If you were to convert that to the amount generated and consumed per capita, the Scandinavians in particular would be way out in front.

In terms of our electricity consumption, 51.5% in Germany is now generated from renewables. However, the share accounted for by lignite and hard coal is still very high at 30.5% in the first quarter of 2023.

But that's just the topic of electricity. Electricity accounts for only 20% of our total German energy requirements. Energy demand for mobility, industry and much more changes the balance extremely.
Here, oil (33%) and gas (27%) are the main energy sources. In order to create more independence here, an extremely large amount of change must still take place. There is still a very long way to go.

Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.

But electromobility also brings with it dependency problems. Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe. Large deposits have been found in Sweden, but in general, Europeans are extremely dependent on imports. It's a vicious circle.
Germany being a global leader in the transition to renewable energy is two-faced and it has some very important nuances.

First of all, the  capacity of wind and solar they built up the last decade or so is remarkable, and an example to follow. I applaud that.

On the flipside, you see Germany still lagging behind significantly in bringing down carbon emissions of their electricity generation infrastructure. Despite the huge infrastructure on renewable energy, Germany's average carbon emissions of electricity generation infrastructure still looks bad and they really struggle with bringing it down. And the reason for that is very simple: coal burning. And sorry to say, also shutting down nuclear power plants, which have a very low carbon emission level.
You can easily check the carbon emissions caused by electricity generation here: https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE (https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE)

Now, I'm not in favor of nuclear energy either, and all you said about it is true Wilm. But, I think the bigger picture is way more nuanced. When a country lacks the geological conditions to severely invest in hydro plants, like the Nordics for instance can do, or you don't have the possibility to explore geothermal energy, like Iceland can do, nuclear is the only non-fossil option for having a rather stable and trustworthy baseline of low carbon energy. Because, let's be fair, solar and wind are unreliable and building storage capacity that will get you through days or weeks of grey and windless weather is realistically not feasible.
Again, not in favor of nuclear, and certainly not in favor of building new nuclear power plants, but these are facts that can not be ignored.

Another fact that can not be ignored is that burning fossil fuels caused way more deaths than nuclear accidents so far. I'm fully aware that accidents in Fukushima and Chernobyl had a dramatic impact on the people living anywhere "near" of those disaster zones and the reported deaths are probably underestimated, but the impact of burning fossils is a totally different scale, both for humans as for nature. Mining accidents, drilling accidents, oil spills, gas leaks, wars fought because of oil, and fine dust particles that come with burning fossils as cherry on the cake. Disasters every now and then, deaths by fine dust particles on a daily basis.
See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/)

We can discuss numbers and studies, and I'm anything but an authority on the matter, but the bigger picture is what it is I'm afraid. Burning fossils, and certainly coal, has a devastating impact on all of us. And this is exactly what Germany keeps on doing, at a very large scale, and they will continue for another decade if I'm not mistaken?

The concerns regarding nuclear energy are 100% justified, but the way I look at now it is that bringing down our global carbon emissions became such a priority nowadays that not considering nuclear power as a necessary evil option to do so would be a mistake. In the end, we will need that solution for nuclear waste anyhow, and I know that sounds like a weak excuse (we don't need to put more crap in a shithole knowing we will have to clean it up someday) but the alternative is keep on burning coal and natural gas. Resources that already have a devastating impact, and are putting an end to the world as we know it.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 16, 2023, 19:41

What a lie, what a delusion. You are trying to attribute the guilt of the fascists and terrorism to democratic countries. And in this way you are trying to divert people's attention from the crimes of the Russians. You act according to the manuals of the KGB. Like, yes, we are bad, but everyone around is also bad and there is no justice anywhere.
The US and EU countries do not engage in genocide and murder. The US Army, if it fights, then only with the enemy army, while observing all the Geneva Conventions. The same Saddam Hussein was a tyrant.
 

LOL, US is doing anything to avoid international democracy and let the international courts decide who was involved in genocide and who was not.

On 17 July 1998, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court was adopted by a vote of 120 to seven, with 21 countries abstaining. The seven countries that voted against the treaty were China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar, the U.S., and Yemen.  ;)

BTW...

387,072 civilians have died violent deaths as a direct result of the U.S. post-9/11 wars.

One example of respecting the Geneva Conventions,  On 3 October 2015, US airstrikes destroyed  hospital in operated solely by Doctors Without Borders, Kunduz killing 42 people.

Should I start posting leaked Abu Ghraib torturing photos so you can explain me how those relate to Geneva Conventions ?



And those Russian animals are doing same things in the moment to support their world domination part of the games and the ones supporting them have arguments equally invalid as yours for any normal human being watching that from the side. You are under influence of the same "Conan level" of brainwashing.  ;)



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 16, 2023, 20:37


Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.


That sounds really nice. Hearing it like this it seams that they are doing a great thing for the environment.

Please, lets define things a bit

On the other hand 50% of Norwegian export product is...you got it right OIL. So in numbers a country that contributes worlds population at 0.06% is producing 3.53% of the oil production in the world worth around 22 billion $ yearly.

They are probably decreasing that in time right since all that renewable energy being forward thing and advanced awareness ?

Well lets check it out...

(https://i.ibb.co/cX3MdBQ/norway-oil-exports-3x.png)

Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports (https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports)


And than their government can nicely use that income to exclude people from VAT obligations when buying electric cars, offer them free or significantly cheaper parking and other benefits and pump the numbers , and there you have it... an idyllic environment friendly mini society so far ahead as an example to the rest of the world to follow.

If we don't mention that Norway is contributing per inhabitant to the worlds oil consumption outside of their borders more than any other nation in the world behind Kuwait ( and not far behind at all  )


This example should be in worlds dictionaries describing Hypocrisy at its finest.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2023, 04:44
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened.  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P (https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P)

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."

Australia has about 30% of the world's uranium. Buy more from us! ;)

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx (https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx)

Actually, I cringe that I even wrote that (even in jest). When I was in my 20s, I used to protest against uranium mining in Australia. (of course, we have coal as well *sigh*)

In my heart of hearts, I've always been against stripping our world of its natural resources. What happened with wind and solar power? A few years ago, I thought Germany was a European leader in renewable energy. Or am I wrong, Wilm?

As far as Europe is concerned, that is correct, Annie. In a global comparison, Germany is in third place, behind the USA in second place and China in first place.
That refers to the amount of energy in TWh that is generated from renewable energy sources in these countries.

If you were to convert that to the amount generated and consumed per capita, the Scandinavians in particular would be way out in front.

In terms of our electricity consumption, 51.5% in Germany is now generated from renewables. However, the share accounted for by lignite and hard coal is still very high at 30.5% in the first quarter of 2023.

But that's just the topic of electricity. Electricity accounts for only 20% of our total German energy requirements. Energy demand for mobility, industry and much more changes the balance extremely.
Here, oil (33%) and gas (27%) are the main energy sources. In order to create more independence here, an extremely large amount of change must still take place. There is still a very long way to go.

Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.

But electromobility also brings with it dependency problems. Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe. Large deposits have been found in Sweden, but in general, Europeans are extremely dependent on imports. It's a vicious circle.
Germany being a global leader in the transition to renewable energy is two-faced and it has some very important nuances.

First of all, the  capacity of wind and solar they built up the last decade or so is remarkable, and an example to follow. I applaud that.

On the flipside, you see Germany still lagging behind significantly in bringing down carbon emissions of their electricity generation infrastructure. Despite the huge infrastructure on renewable energy, Germany's average carbon emissions of electricity generation infrastructure still looks bad and they really struggle with bringing it down. And the reason for that is very simple: coal burning. And sorry to say, also shutting down nuclear power plants, which have a very low carbon emission level.
You can easily check the carbon emissions caused by electricity generation here: https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE (https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE)

Now, I'm not in favor of nuclear energy either, and all you said about it is true Wilm. But, I think the bigger picture is way more nuanced. When a country lacks the geological conditions to severely invest in hydro plants, like the Nordics for instance can do, or you don't have the possibility to explore geothermal energy, like Iceland can do, nuclear is the only non-fossil option for having a rather stable and trustworthy baseline of low carbon energy. Because, let's be fair, solar and wind are unreliable and building storage capacity that will get you through days or weeks of grey and windless weather is realistically not feasible.
Again, not in favor of nuclear, and certainly not in favor of building new nuclear power plants, but these are facts that can not be ignored.

Another fact that can not be ignored is that burning fossil fuels caused way more deaths than nuclear accidents so far. I'm fully aware that accidents in Fukushima and Chernobyl had a dramatic impact on the people living anywhere "near" of those disaster zones and the reported deaths are probably underestimated, but the impact of burning fossils is a totally different scale, both for humans as for nature. Mining accidents, drilling accidents, oil spills, gas leaks, wars fought because of oil, and fine dust particles that come with burning fossils as cherry on the cake. Disasters every now and then, deaths by fine dust particles on a daily basis.
See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/)

We can discuss numbers and studies, and I'm anything but an authority on the matter, but the bigger picture is what it is I'm afraid. Burning fossils, and certainly coal, has a devastating impact on all of us. And this is exactly what Germany keeps on doing, at a very large scale, and they will continue for another decade if I'm not mistaken?

The concerns regarding nuclear energy are 100% justified, but the way I look at now it is that bringing down our global carbon emissions became such a priority nowadays that not considering nuclear power as a necessary evil option to do so would be a mistake. In the end, we will need that solution for nuclear waste anyhow, and I know that sounds like a weak excuse (we don't need to put more crap in a shithole knowing we will have to clean it up someday) but the alternative is keep on burning coal and natural gas. Resources that already have a devastating impact, and are putting an end to the world as we know it.

Thank you for your factual contribution, Roscoe.

I am absolutely aware that the nuclear phase-out also has negative sides.

Germany, as the largest industrial nation, also has the highest CO2 emissions per capita in the EU. Of these CO2 emissions, by far the largest share is due to the burning of oil and gas. Even the continued operation of nuclear power plants would not change this much.

If you now pick a few countries and look at how high the share of nuclear power in the total electricity generation in the country was in 2021, you can see, for example, that this was 28% in South Korea, 20% in Russia, 19.6% in the USA and 14.8% in Canada.
In these 4 countries, CO2 emissions per capita are nevertheless significantly higher than in Germany, where the share of nuclear power was only 11.9%.

Of course, the burning of coal in Germany remains without doubt a major problem. And we would burn less coal if we continued to operate nuclear power plants - no question about that either. Above all, we need to consume less energy and drive the expansion of renewable energies much more strongly and quickly.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2023, 04:54


Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.


That sounds really nice. Hearing it like this it seams that they are doing a great thing for the environment.

Please, lets define things a bit

On the other hand 50% of Norwegian export product is...you got it right OIL. So in numbers a country that contributes worlds population at 0.06% is producing 3.53% of the oil production in the world worth around 22 billion $ yearly.

They are probably decreasing that in time right since all that renewable energy being forward thing and advanced awareness ?

Well lets check it out...

(https://i.ibb.co/cX3MdBQ/norway-oil-exports-3x.png)

Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports (https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports)


And than their government can nicely use that income to exclude people from VAT obligations when buying electric cars, offer them free or significantly cheaper parking and other benefits and pump the numbers , and there you have it... an idyllic environment friendly mini society so far ahead as an example to the rest of the world to follow.

If we don't mention that Norway is contributing per inhabitant to the worlds oil consumption outside of their borders more than any other nation in the world behind Kuwait ( and not far behind at all  )


This example should be in worlds dictionaries describing Hypocrisy at its finest.

What is a not so hypocritical solution from your point of view? Should Norway stop exporting oil so that Russia (1.8% of the world's population, 12.7% of the world's oil) can sell more oil?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2023, 05:16

What a lie, what a delusion. You are trying to attribute the guilt of the fascists and terrorism to democratic countries. And in this way you are trying to divert people's attention from the crimes of the Russians. You act according to the manuals of the KGB. Like, yes, we are bad, but everyone around is also bad and there is no justice anywhere.
The US and EU countries do not engage in genocide and murder. The US Army, if it fights, then only with the enemy army, while observing all the Geneva Conventions. The same Saddam Hussein was a tyrant.
 

LOL, US is doing anything to avoid international democracy and let the international courts decide who was involved in genocide and who was not.

On 17 July 1998, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court was adopted by a vote of 120 to seven, with 21 countries abstaining. The seven countries that voted against the treaty were China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar, the U.S., and Yemen.  ;)

BTW...

387,072 civilians have died violent deaths as a direct result of the U.S. post-9/11 wars.

One example of respecting the Geneva Conventions,  On 3 October 2015, US airstrikes destroyed  hospital in operated solely by Doctors Without Borders, Kunduz killing 42 people.

Should I start posting leaked Abu Ghraib torturing photos so you can explain me how those relate to Geneva Conventions ?
You started twisting the facts. Non-ratification of the court does not mean that the country has committed crimes. There are reasonable explanations for everything, and at one time I read them.
At the expense of destroyed hospitals, killed people, torture, you have no evidence, all this is 90-99 percent propaganda.
Recently, you used Russian propaganda here, wrote that the APU was shooting at the homes of civilians, but this is a lie that the Russians threw in. The Russians themselves kill people, and then immediately blame the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, stop writing in this topic, there is 0 trust in your texts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2023, 05:20
We can discuss numbers and studies, and I'm anything but an authority on the matter, but the bigger picture is what it is I'm afraid. Burning fossils, and certainly coal, has a devastating impact on all of us. And this is exactly what Germany keeps on doing, at a very large scale, and they will continue for another decade if I'm not mistaken?

The concerns regarding nuclear energy are 100% justified, but the way I look at now it is that bringing down our global carbon emissions became such a priority nowadays that not considering nuclear power as a necessary evil option to do so would be a mistake. In the end, we will need that solution for nuclear waste anyhow, and I know that sounds like a weak excuse (we don't need to put more crap in a shithole knowing we will have to clean it up someday) but the alternative is keep on burning coal and natural gas. Resources that already have a devastating impact, and are putting an end to the world as we know it.
+100
I have suspicions that Germany is pursuing a pro-Russian policy for the future. Instead of building more and more environmentally friendly nuclear power plants, Germany is eliminating them completely and burning more and more coal and gas. Merkel left reliable offspring?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on April 17, 2023, 06:44
Today, the last 3 nuclear power plants in Germany were shut down.

In Finland, the biggest nuclear reactor in Europe just opened.  ;)

https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P (https://www.reuters.com/article/finland-nuclearpower/after-18-years-europes-largest-nuclear-reactor-to-start-regular-output-on-sunday-idUSL8N36I06P)

Yes, I know.

From a report on Olkiluoto 3 on ntv:

"The bigger catch in the current energy crisis, however, is another: contrary to appearances, nuclear energy does not make people quite as independent and free as some might wish. The Finns are aware of this, too. This year, they stopped the construction of another nuclear power plant with the participation of the Russian energy company Rosatom. The reason: a significant portion of the uranium for Finland's nuclear reactors comes from Russia, the country that attacked Ukraine and triggered the energy crisis in the first place.

Dependence on Russian electricity is one thing, but dependence on Russian uranium is another. Last year, Russia supplied about one-fifth of the uranium for nuclear power plants across Europe. Uranium is not on the EU sanctions list. The situation is no better in the USA: 99 percent of the uranium for 95 nuclear power plants is imported - mainly from Russia, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. Finland wants to become more independent with nuclear power? It's not quite that simple."

Australia has about 30% of the world's uranium. Buy more from us! ;)

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx (https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/mining-of-uranium/world-uranium-mining-production.aspx)

Actually, I cringe that I even wrote that (even in jest). When I was in my 20s, I used to protest against uranium mining in Australia. (of course, we have coal as well *sigh*)

In my heart of hearts, I've always been against stripping our world of its natural resources. What happened with wind and solar power? A few years ago, I thought Germany was a European leader in renewable energy. Or am I wrong, Wilm?

As far as Europe is concerned, that is correct, Annie. In a global comparison, Germany is in third place, behind the USA in second place and China in first place.
That refers to the amount of energy in TWh that is generated from renewable energy sources in these countries.

If you were to convert that to the amount generated and consumed per capita, the Scandinavians in particular would be way out in front.

In terms of our electricity consumption, 51.5% in Germany is now generated from renewables. However, the share accounted for by lignite and hard coal is still very high at 30.5% in the first quarter of 2023.

But that's just the topic of electricity. Electricity accounts for only 20% of our total German energy requirements. Energy demand for mobility, industry and much more changes the balance extremely.
Here, oil (33%) and gas (27%) are the main energy sources. In order to create more independence here, an extremely large amount of change must still take place. There is still a very long way to go.

Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.

But electromobility also brings with it dependency problems. Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe. Large deposits have been found in Sweden, but in general, Europeans are extremely dependent on imports. It's a vicious circle.
Germany being a global leader in the transition to renewable energy is two-faced and it has some very important nuances.

First of all, the  capacity of wind and solar they built up the last decade or so is remarkable, and an example to follow. I applaud that.

On the flipside, you see Germany still lagging behind significantly in bringing down carbon emissions of their electricity generation infrastructure. Despite the huge infrastructure on renewable energy, Germany's average carbon emissions of electricity generation infrastructure still looks bad and they really struggle with bringing it down. And the reason for that is very simple: coal burning. And sorry to say, also shutting down nuclear power plants, which have a very low carbon emission level.
You can easily check the carbon emissions caused by electricity generation here: https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE (https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE)

Now, I'm not in favor of nuclear energy either, and all you said about it is true Wilm. But, I think the bigger picture is way more nuanced. When a country lacks the geological conditions to severely invest in hydro plants, like the Nordics for instance can do, or you don't have the possibility to explore geothermal energy, like Iceland can do, nuclear is the only non-fossil option for having a rather stable and trustworthy baseline of low carbon energy. Because, let's be fair, solar and wind are unreliable and building storage capacity that will get you through days or weeks of grey and windless weather is realistically not feasible.
Again, not in favor of nuclear, and certainly not in favor of building new nuclear power plants, but these are facts that can not be ignored.

Another fact that can not be ignored is that burning fossil fuels caused way more deaths than nuclear accidents so far. I'm fully aware that accidents in Fukushima and Chernobyl had a dramatic impact on the people living anywhere "near" of those disaster zones and the reported deaths are probably underestimated, but the impact of burning fossils is a totally different scale, both for humans as for nature. Mining accidents, drilling accidents, oil spills, gas leaks, wars fought because of oil, and fine dust particles that come with burning fossils as cherry on the cake. Disasters every now and then, deaths by fine dust particles on a daily basis.
See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldwide-by-energy-source/)

We can discuss numbers and studies, and I'm anything but an authority on the matter, but the bigger picture is what it is I'm afraid. Burning fossils, and certainly coal, has a devastating impact on all of us. And this is exactly what Germany keeps on doing, at a very large scale, and they will continue for another decade if I'm not mistaken?

The concerns regarding nuclear energy are 100% justified, but the way I look at now it is that bringing down our global carbon emissions became such a priority nowadays that not considering nuclear power as a necessary evil option to do so would be a mistake. In the end, we will need that solution for nuclear waste anyhow, and I know that sounds like a weak excuse (we don't need to put more crap in a shithole knowing we will have to clean it up someday) but the alternative is keep on burning coal and natural gas. Resources that already have a devastating impact, and are putting an end to the world as we know it.

Thank you for your factual contribution, Roscoe.

I am absolutely aware that the nuclear phase-out also has negative sides.

Germany, as the largest industrial nation, also has the highest CO2 emissions per capita in the EU. Of these CO2 emissions, by far the largest share is due to the burning of oil and gas. Even the continued operation of nuclear power plants would not change this much.

If you now pick a few countries and look at how high the share of nuclear power in the total electricity generation in the country was in 2021, you can see, for example, that this was 28% in South Korea, 20% in Russia, 19.6% in the USA and 14.8% in Canada.
In these 4 countries, CO2 emissions per capita are nevertheless significantly higher than in Germany, where the share of nuclear power was only 11.9%.

Of course, the burning of coal in Germany remains without doubt a major problem. And we would burn less coal if we continued to operate nuclear power plants - no question about that either. Above all, we need to consume less energy and drive the expansion of renewable energies much more strongly and quickly.

You are right, we have to look at carbon emissions by capita, and not focus on one single part of the economy or one single element of that part of the economy. This is a very important point you make there indeed and it is often neglected by nuclear fanboys (never understood why people are so supportive for one or another technology, as if it was a football team) who act as if that technology is the holy grail.

Another point that is often neglected are carbon emission markets (https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/eu-emissions-trading-system-eu-ets_en (https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/eu-emissions-trading-system-eu-ets_en)), where companies (at least in the EU) are obliged to buy their carbon emissions rights. Closing down nuclear power plants will drive up the price of carbon emissions rights, and will make it more profitable for companies to invest in low carbon technologies. Not sure I like that very much, because it seems like a very complicated and bureaucratic system that allows exceptions for industries with strong lobbying, to just do what has to be done. But it does play a role, and in the end, money makes the world go round, so if investing in low carbon technologies makes you more money than keep on using fossil fuels, low carbon will be the way to go.

And maybe to clarify: why is everyone so focused on electricity generation?  One of the keystone measures in bringing down carbon emissions is electrification. The reason for that is quite simple: we already have the technology, and people don't necessarily have to give in on lifestyle or luxury. It's just another way of doing it and electricity is a very efficient way to convert energy in something else. Often way more efficient than combustion systems, where a lot of heat is lost. Electrification of transport, where possible, heating of buildings and electrification of industrial processes. The latter is quite an interesting one, definitely countries that strongly rely on the import of natural gas for their industry. I see big chemical companies starting to explore the use of e-boilers instead of gas-fired boilers. All of that will require a huge amount of additional electricity generation infrastructure.

All in all, it is a very nuanced discussion and there is no easy solution or easy fix. But it surely can be done, considered there's a political will, and this is mostly the issue. Back to Germany: a lot of jobs are at stake there in coal mines and automotive industry. What's the political consequence of that: Germany keeps on burning coal and keeps on using combustion engines in their cars to protect their industry and jobs. Understandable, but also lazy, because we're talking about a change of technology, which means a shift of jobs, not necessarily a loss of jobs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2023, 07:06

[/quote]

You are right, we have to look at carbon emissions by capita, and not focus on one single part of the economy or one single element of that part of the economy. This is a very important point you make there indeed and it is often neglected by nuclear fanboys (never understood why people are so supportive for one or another technology, as if it was a football team) who act as if that technology is the holy grail.

Another point that is often neglected are carbon emission markets (https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/eu-emissions-trading-system-eu-ets_en (https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/eu-emissions-trading-system-eu-ets_en)), where companies (at least in the EU) are obliged to buy their carbon emissions rights. Closing down nuclear power plants will drive up the price of carbon emissions rights, and will make it more profitable for companies to invest in low carbon technologies. Not sure I like that very much, because it seems like a very complicated and bureaucratic system that allows exceptions for industries with strong lobbying, to just do what has to be done. But it does play a role, and in the end, money makes the world go round, so if investing in low carbon technologies makes you more money than keep on using fossil fuels, low carbon will be the way to go.

And maybe to clarify: why is everyone so focused on electricity generation?  One of the keystone measures in bringing down carbon emissions is electrification. The reason for that is quite simple: we already have the technology, and people don't necessarily have to give in on lifestyle or luxury. It's just another way of doing it and electricity is a very efficient way to convert energy in something else. Often way more efficient than combustion systems, where a lot of heat is lost. Electrification of transport, where possible, heating of buildings and electrification of industrial processes. The latter is quite an interesting one, definitely countries that strongly rely on the import of natural gas for their industry. I see big chemical companies starting to explore the use of e-boilers instead of gas-fired boilers. All of that will require a huge amount of additional electricity generation infrastructure.

All in all, it is a very nuanced discussion and there is no easy solution or easy fix. But it surely can be done, considered there's a political will, and this is mostly the issue. Back to Germany: a lot of jobs are at stake there in coal mines and automotive industry. What's the political consequence of that: Germany keeps on burning coal and keeps on using combustion engines in their cars to protect their industry and jobs. Understandable, but also lazy, because we're talking about a change of technology, which means a shift of jobs, not necessarily a loss of jobs.
[/quote]

You're right!

Germany has slept through electromobility! The automotive industry reacts too sluggishly to changes. Even if electromobility is only a bridging technology, the industry must also have solutions for this.

I personally believe that electromobility will also solve other problems. The development of rechargeable batteries will be massively driven forward by electromobility. Perhaps engineers and developers will succeed in building batteries that will eventually no longer need rare earths and whose capacity, charging speed and durability will continue to improve. The knowledge gained from this can help us with our biggest current problem of grid fluctuation and energy security - storing electricity.

However, I would question how sensible it is for e-cars to become more and more powerful. If that power of over 1000 horsepower is called upon often, charging will have to be done more often - that doesn't make a lot of sense ecologically.

By the way, here in Germany, 4.6 million bicycles were purchased in 2022. The share of e-bikes is now larger than that of normal bicycles. Now older people can also leave their cars behind more often - which will also benefit the environment. At least after a certain mileage - because the production of these bikes also costs raw materials.

In any case, we have to start making changes somewhere.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 08:01


Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.


That sounds really nice. Hearing it like this it seams that they are doing a great thing for the environment.

Please, lets define things a bit

On the other hand 50% of Norwegian export product is...you got it right OIL. So in numbers a country that contributes worlds population at 0.06% is producing 3.53% of the oil production in the world worth around 22 billion $ yearly.

They are probably decreasing that in time right since all that renewable energy being forward thing and advanced awareness ?

Well lets check it out...

(https://i.ibb.co/cX3MdBQ/norway-oil-exports-3x.png)

Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports (https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports)


And than their government can nicely use that income to exclude people from VAT obligations when buying electric cars, offer them free or significantly cheaper parking and other benefits and pump the numbers , and there you have it... an idyllic environment friendly mini society so far ahead as an example to the rest of the world to follow.

If we don't mention that Norway is contributing per inhabitant to the worlds oil consumption outside of their borders more than any other nation in the world behind Kuwait ( and not far behind at all  )


This example should be in worlds dictionaries describing Hypocrisy at its finest.

What is a not so hypocritical solution from your point of view? Should Norway stop exporting oil so that Russia (1.8% of the world's population, 12.7% of the world's oil) can sell more oil?

When you are out of arguments just throw Russia in.

The topic was Norway being so further away on renewable energy. The solution is they can as well continue using their oil in their car cause they oil is going to be used anyway around the world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 08:17

You started twisting the facts. Non-ratification of the court does not mean that the country has committed crimes. There are reasonable explanations for everything, and at one time I read them.
At the expense of destroyed hospitals, killed people, torture, you have no evidence, all this is 90-99 percent propaganda.
Recently, you used Russian propaganda here, wrote that the APU was shooting at the homes of civilians, but this is a lie that the Russians threw in. The Russians themselves kill people, and then immediately blame the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, stop writing in this topic, there is 0 trust in your texts.

LOL  ;D

The only one twisting the facts are you with denying the facts and spreading your little propaganda with closing eyes in fron of your war crimes and pointing fingers only at others while you are basically the same. 

Once again, Russia is a country spreading terror in their path of word dominance and so is US and they should both be put on ignore by the rest of the world until they change their aggressive policies and accept the authority of international courts like the rest of democratic world.   

Sure, you are probably the on who is gonna decide who writes what and what the truth is.   ;)

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2023, 08:23


Electromobility is being boosted, but other countries are much further ahead. In Norway, 65% of cars sold are currently electric. What's more, 98% of the electricity for electromobility in Norway is generated from renewable energy. These are values that we are very, very far away from here.


That sounds really nice. Hearing it like this it seams that they are doing a great thing for the environment.

Please, lets define things a bit

On the other hand 50% of Norwegian export product is...you got it right OIL. So in numbers a country that contributes worlds population at 0.06% is producing 3.53% of the oil production in the world worth around 22 billion $ yearly.

They are probably decreasing that in time right since all that renewable energy being forward thing and advanced awareness ?

Well lets check it out...

(https://i.ibb.co/cX3MdBQ/norway-oil-exports-3x.png)

Source: https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports (https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/oil-exports)


And than their government can nicely use that income to exclude people from VAT obligations when buying electric cars, offer them free or significantly cheaper parking and other benefits and pump the numbers , and there you have it... an idyllic environment friendly mini society so far ahead as an example to the rest of the world to follow.

If we don't mention that Norway is contributing per inhabitant to the worlds oil consumption outside of their borders more than any other nation in the world behind Kuwait ( and not far behind at all  )


This example should be in worlds dictionaries describing Hypocrisy at its finest.

What is a not so hypocritical solution from your point of view? Should Norway stop exporting oil so that Russia (1.8% of the world's population, 12.7% of the world's oil) can sell more oil?

When you are out of arguments just throw Russia in.

The topic was Norway being so further away on renewable energy. The solution is they can as well continue using their oil in their car cause they oil is going to be used anyway around the world.

Yes, this is indeed a great solution. Everyone just keeps doing what they've been doing for the past 150 years. Great!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 09:53

Yes, this is indeed a great solution. Everyone just keeps doing what they've been doing for the past 150 years. Great!

No, we should all exploit and sell oil in billions and show off how we are supporting renewable energy, that's gonna help a lot. And ban cows cause their farts are destroying us.

As we speak Norwegian Statoilom is forcing to research OIL sources in Adriatic in cooperation with Hungarian MOL which bought Croatian national oil company INA in a corruption scandal for which Croatian prime minister Sanader took bribe and was in jail for 10 years. 

This is how they operate with the governments.  ;D

(https://static.jutarnji.hr/images/slike/2021/10/25/f_12922403_1280.jpg?2021-10-25-13-04-34)

The same guy that was backed up by Merkel in his campaigns that she was actively following and
appearing in their promotional videos.



(https://express.24sata.hr/media/img/21/7d/d053369a116190845c8f.jpeg)

(https://balkaninsight.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/h_55204418-e1558611826511-1280x720.jpg)

Until he was arrested while escaped from his country to Austria:

(https://ip.index.hr/remote/bucket.index.hr/b/index/2da7083e-1e00-40e4-8fae-4e122d05346b.jpg?width=480&height=252)





You can honestly trust those people and they will for sure do whats best for the planet.   ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2023, 10:11

You started twisting the facts. Non-ratification of the court does not mean that the country has committed crimes. There are reasonable explanations for everything, and at one time I read them.
At the expense of destroyed hospitals, killed people, torture, you have no evidence, all this is 90-99 percent propaganda.
Recently, you used Russian propaganda here, wrote that the APU was shooting at the homes of civilians, but this is a lie that the Russians threw in. The Russians themselves kill people, and then immediately blame the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, stop writing in this topic, there is 0 trust in your texts.

LOL  ;D

The only one twisting the facts are you with denying the facts and spreading your little propaganda with closing eyes in fron of your war crimes and pointing fingers only at others while you are basically the same. 

Once again, Russia is a country spreading terror in their path of word dominance and so is US and they should both be put on ignore by the rest of the world until they change their aggressive policies and accept the authority of international courts like the rest of democratic world.   

Sure, you are probably the on who is gonna decide who writes what and what the truth is.   ;)
What country are you a citizen of? Such thoughts about the United States will lead to the fact that Russia will occupy the whole of Europe, and the United States will not be able to help, because. they were kicked out of Europe by people like you. And China is taking over the rest of the world. If you want to live under Russian or Chinese occupation, my advice to you is: suitcase - railway station - Russia (China).
And give proof to any of your accusations against the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 10:41

What country are you a citizen of? Such thoughts about the United States will lead to the fact that Russia will occupy the whole of Europe, and the United States will not be able to help, because. they were kicked out of Europe by people like you. And China is taking over the rest of the world. If you want to live under Russian or Chinese occupation, my advice to you is: suitcase - railway station - Russia (China).
And give proof to any of your accusations against the United States.

Of a country whose leader openly stood in front of the Russian troops and sad no pass without a war.

A leader on which Stalin sent multiple assassins after 1949 until he had enough and openly told him that on next attempt he will send one and he will not have the need to send another one.

Sure, Russia will or can occupy united Europe. Get real.

Here is another advice, you want to fight Russians...gun...airplane...Ukraine...fight.  ;)

Proof for what, for not respecting Geneva Conventions ? Not a problem:

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/990dbc1fac9bc485bce78d4c87871164/tumblr_inline_n2byfptwy51sa863v.png)

You want more ? Perhaps some older ones ?

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Woundedknee1891.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 10:50
As we speak Norwegian Statoilom is forcing to research OIL sources in Adriatic

The opposite happens in the Black Sea, where OMV is doing its best to block the exploitation of the massive gas reserves dicovered there.

No surprises, since OMV is an Austrian company and Austria (like Hungary) looks more and more like the former GDR being heavily influenced by Russia (see the former Autrian ministry of foreign affairs kneeling in front of Putin, a few pages above).
OMV has no plans to invest in those gas reserves. They were happy to get the Black Sea license and to sit on it, instead of competing with Russia.

Remember that one of the most important reason why Russia seized Crimea and wishes to landlock Ukraine away from the Black Sea, are the same gas reserves, which could make Ukraine the second largest gas producer in Europe, competing with Russia.

So, if more gas can be extracted from the Adriatic, by a Norwegian company or anyone else except Gazprom, then this is a good thing!
And if corrupted politicians are rightfully trialed, then this is a good thing again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 11:02
As we speak Norwegian Statoilom is forcing to research OIL sources in Adriatic

The opposite happens in the Black Sea, where OMV is doing it's best to block the exploitation of the massive gas reserves dicovered there.

No surprises, since OMV is an Austrian company and Austria (like Hungary) looks more and more like the former GDR being heavily influenced by Russia (see the former Autrian ministry of foreign affairs kneeling in front of Putin, a few pages above).
OMV has no plans to invest in those gas reserves. They were happy to get the Black Sea license and to sit on it, instead of competing with Russia.

Remember that one of the most important reason why Russia seized Crimea and wishes to landlock Ukraine away from the Black Sea, are the same gas reserves, which could make Ukraine the second largest gas producer in Europe, competing with Russia.

So, if more gas can be extracted from the Adriatic, by a Norwegian company or anyone else except Gazprom, then this is a good thing!
And if corrupted politicians are rightfully trialed, then this is a good thing again.

No its not a good thing and the contracts they signed remain active so people which they robbed of tens of thousands work places and natural resources have no rights at all except the fact that one corrupted idiot is behind the bars. And they will find another one for their next deal in modern corporate colonialism backed up by their goverments.

And its not gas its oil, on shores of a country which main and almost only product is tourism and a single accident can destroy that forever.

For sure I will go to buy an electric car to protect the planet while the one that imposes that campaign aggressively is digging oil in my back yard exploiting billions while my country and the people have minimal benefits from that and admire how those corporations countries have gone far in front of us in renewable energy financed from OIL exploitation. And one of those countries might as well be Russia because they also tried but they were less generous in their bribes to private politicians pockets.

And I should even be ashamed to say that out loud.   
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 11:09
As we speak Norwegian Statoilom is forcing to research OIL sources in Adriatic

The opposite happens in the Black Sea, where OMV is doing it's best to block the exploitation of the massive gas reserves dicovered there.

No surprises, since OMV is an Austrian company and Austria (like Hungary) looks more and more like the former GDR being heavily influenced by Russia (see the former Autrian ministry of foreign affairs kneeling in front of Putin, a few pages above).
OMV has no plans to invest in those gas reserves. They were happy to get the Black Sea license and to sit on it, instead of competing with Russia.

Remember that one of the most important reason why Russia seized Crimea and wishes to landlock Ukraine away from the Black Sea, are the same gas reserves, which could make Ukraine the second largest gas producer in Europe, competing with Russia.

So, if more gas can be extracted from the Adriatic, by a Norwegian company or anyone else except Gazprom, then this is a good thing!
And if corrupted politicians are rightfully trialed, then this is a good thing again.

No its not a good thing and the contracts they signed remain active so people they they cheated have no rights at all except the fact that one corrupted idiot is behind the bars. And they will find another one for their next deal.

And its not gas its oil, on shores of a country which main and almost only product is tourism and a single accident can destroy that forever.

For sure I will go to buy an electric car to protect the planet while the one that imposes that campaign aggressively is digging oil in my back yard exploiting billions while my country and the people have minimal benefits from that and admire how those corporations countries have gone far in front of us in renewable energy financed from OIL exploitation.

And I should even be ashamed to say that out loud.

Yep, as I said before, russian trolls are faking climate change or similar "concerns", instigating their idealistic audience to ask for fracking to be banned, for nuclear energy to be banned, for off-shore drilling to be banned, for coal to be banned, etc.
And using marxist arguments while at it, since this is ingrained in their brains by so many years of communist propaganda, but also because it resonates with their idealistic audience.

All of this to maintain a dependency on Russian fossil fuels for as long as possible.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 17, 2023, 11:18
Wow, that sure went sideways from a good discussion. When someone brings up a military and Indian conflict, on a personal level, a single event in 1890, which was not the position of the US Government, and for all historical accounts, not the intention of the eventual outcome, but a mistaken action that turned into a tragic ending. Or shows guards, that were in violation of direct orders and the rules of the country they served. (and they were punished for their actions, not rewarded)

Someone come back to governments and wars, of today? Or at least the last 10-20 years? Where it's a leaders position and the position of the government of a country?

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 11:23


Yep, as I said before, russian trolls are faking climate change or similar "concerns", instigating their audience to ask for fracking to be banned, for nuclear energy to be banned, for off-shore drilling to be banned, for coal to be banned, etc. And using marxist arguments while at it, since this is ingrained in their brains by so many years of communist propaganda.

All of this to maintain a dependency on Russian fossil fuels for as long as possible.

Well, I don't particularly care who does something but the action he does. If I don't agree on the politics that's it, no matter if its coming from Russians, Americans, Norwegians or anyone else.

I i thing its an agenda a bit wider than a single country and it has to do with profit and nothing else.

And the corporations of today can easily influence politicians, media  and scientist with pocket change money from their profits. End on the east the don't even need that cause they are government owned and the board is installed on political bases and connections.

Go green while we sell OIL is a stupidity beyond reasons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 11:27
Wow, that sure went sideways from a good discussion. When someone brings up a military and Indian conflict, on a personal level, a single event in 1890, which was not the position of the US Government, and for all historical accounts, not the intention of the eventual outcome, but a mistaken action that turned into a tragic ending. Or shows guards, that were in violation of direct orders and the rules of the country they served. (and they were punished for their actions, not rewarded)

Someone come back to governments and wars, of today? Or at least the last 10-20 years? Where it's a leaders position and the position of the government of a country?

The point is that any democratic country should accept international law and courts and accept independent trials for the citizens accused for war crimes and not reject that.

Independent investigation are way more objective and offer way more guarantees that such things wont be repeated.

Is there something strange or wrong for such claim ?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 11:31
Wow, that sure went sideways from a good discussion. When someone brings up a military and Indian conflict, on a personal level, a single event in 1890, which was not the position of the US Government, and for all historical accounts, not the intention of the eventual outcome, but a mistaken action that turned into a tragic ending. Or shows guards, that were in violation of direct orders and the rules of the country they served. (and they were punished for their actions, not rewarded)

Someone come back to governments and wars, of today? Or at least the last 10-20 years? Where it's a leaders position and the position of the government of a country?

#whataboutism is the russian troll's modus operandi, Pete.

Instead of condemning what happens TODAY, they justify the attrocities happening TODAY, under their eyes, by constantly diverting and spinning towards: "yeah, but what about... usually something about American errors, most of them if not all, already heavily condemned by a majority of Americans (while, funny enough, they "prove" their case with pictures first published by the American media. ::))
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 11:44
Go green while we sell OIL is a stupidity beyond reasons.

No, it's not.
Fossil fuel is still widely needed, because going 100% green is impossible today. The transition is costly and it may take a while.

Only rich countries (like Norway) may afford to invest heavily in green subsidies.

Like Norway, Texas is both a heavy oil producer AND a leader in renewable energy (where smart entrepreneurs are taking advantage of federal subsidies).
There is no contradiction.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on April 17, 2023, 11:48


I personally believe that electromobility will also solve other problems. The development of rechargeable batteries will be massively driven forward by electromobility. Perhaps engineers and developers will succeed in building batteries that will eventually no longer need rare earths and whose capacity, charging speed and durability will continue to improve. The knowledge gained from this can help us with our biggest current problem of grid fluctuation and energy security - storing electricity.


When done right, electromobility with current technology already has a huge potential on energy storage and grid stabilization via smart girds and steered consumption.
Car batteries (PHEV ~10KWh EV~50-80KWh) can be used as home batteries when connected to the grid.
Grid operators can steer the charging when there's overproduction, and steer discharge to the net during peak hours, taking needed range into account, and compensate the owners for making use of their (PH)EV battery.

300.000 EV's (current estimated amount of EV's in Germany?) have a 15-24GWh battery capacity that helps you through peak demand. (if my math is right, and of course, real capacity is much lower because not every car is connected to the grid all the time and owners still need battery capacity to reach their destination)
In other words, less flexible gas-fired power plants have to be ignited to cover peak demand, battery storage from solar, wind or other resources can be used.
This also lowers the average end-consumer energy prices, because maintaining peak production is very expensive -> less idling capacity.

The tech is there, we already have pilot and test cases, we just need upscaling.
Not saying it's easy, because it isn't, but relying on countries with questionable reputations and opposing geopolitical positions for your energy resources, has been proven to be much worse.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2023, 11:49

Yes, this is indeed a great solution. Everyone just keeps doing what they've been doing for the past 150 years. Great!

No, we should all exploit and sell oil in billions and show off how we are supporting renewable energy, that's gonna help a lot. And ban cows cause their farts are destroying us.



The Minister President of the State of Baden-Württmberg once said a long time ago: Environmental protection is a great and important thing - you just have to be able to afford it.

If we don't change anything, mankind will exploit the last drop of oil (and still make a lot of money with it). In this respect, the way to advance renewable energies as fast as possible is at least better than to go on as before! And this conversion costs now first of all money.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 12:43

#whataboutism is the russian troll's modus operandi, Pete.

Instead of condemning what happens TODAY, they justify the attrocities happening TODAY, under their eyes, by constantly diverting and spinning towards: "yeah, but what about... usually something about American errors, most of them if not all, already heavily condemned by a majority of Americans (while "proving" their case with pictures first published by the American media  ::))

At least 90% of foreign military bases in the world are U.S. bases. The United States has more than 150,000 military troops deployed outside the United States on more than 800 bases (some estimates are more than 1000) in 160 countries, and all 7 continents.

TODAY, and nobody condemns that. Looks like a win in risk. And Russia would do the same if they could. And most if not all of people in those countries are against those bases being there and it represent hug war hazard potential for their regions as being targets.
 

(https://balticword.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/U.S.-military-bases-e1618315149792.jpg)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 12:48
Go green while we sell OIL is a stupidity beyond reasons.

No, it's not.
Fossil fuel is still widely needed, because going 100% green is impossible today. The transition is costly and it may take a while.

Only rich countries (like Norway) may afford to invest heavily in green subsidies.

Like Norway, Texas is both a heavy oil producer AND a leader in renewable energy (where smart entrepreneurs are taking advantage of federal subsidies).
There is no contradiction.  ;)

When did I mentioned OIL is not needed ?

Just old car tires are huge deal in the world now, when the times comes to deposit all those used batteries and when that starts to pollute water and I wont even mention the soil destruction when mining for resources needed to produce them. Plus the energy that will be gained from coal. More harm than anything else at the current technology level we are using.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 12:51

Yes, this is indeed a great solution. Everyone just keeps doing what they've been doing for the past 150 years. Great!

No, we should all exploit and sell oil in billions and show off how we are supporting renewable energy, that's gonna help a lot. And ban cows cause their farts are destroying us.



The Minister President of the State of Baden-Württmberg once said a long time ago: Environmental protection is a great and important thing - you just have to be able to afford it.

If we don't change anything, mankind will exploit the last drop of oil (and still make a lot of money with it). In this respect, the way to advance renewable energies as fast as possible is at least better than to go on as before! And this conversion costs now first of all money.

Sure, then we need to start investing in developing technologies that work for the purpose and not in production and putting in use ones that are not alternative at all. But that is not profitable.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 12:55
At least 90% of foreign military bases in the world are U.S. bases. The United States has more than 150,000 military troops deployed outside the United States on more than 800 bases (some estimates are more than 1000) in 160 countries, and all 7 continents.

TODAY, and nobody condemns that. Looks like a win in risk. And Russia would do the same if they could. And most if not all of people in those countries are against those bases being there and it represent hug war hazard potential for their regions as being targets.
 

(https://balticword.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/U.S.-military-bases-e1618315149792.jpg)

Again, with your anti-american whataboutism. Out of nowhere, another "fact" from the russian troll's playbook just popped up.  ::)

These military bases are not imposed on anyone.
There is no American invasion in these countries.
Those countries are feeling more secure hosting these bases and are getting paid for it.
Some countries are even lobbying to convince the Americans to open more facilities on their teritories, especially Eastern European countries, who know way too well what being a russian vasal/colony meant.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 17, 2023, 13:02

TODAY, and nobody condemns that. Looks like a win in risk. And Russia would do the same if they could. And most if not all of people in those countries are against those bases being there and it represent hug war hazard potential for their regions as being targets.
 

1) "TODAY, and nobody condemns that." you and people like you do?
2) "And most if not all of people in those countries are against those bases being there" your conclusion I suspect, not a real bit of statistical data?
3) The governments allow and welcome these bases.

But entertaining reading for biased claims and unsupported conclusions.

Back to arguing Smufs (blue) vs Closet-Communists (Reds) and Yellows, no not that, which would be bigoted,I mean  the Sponge Bob Universe. Blue states vs red states and other things. Things like "where will you get all that electricity?" What are those batteries made of and how do you recycle them? How do you put out a flaming electric car. (that's a tricky question, as spraying water on an electrical fire is pretty dangerous) And what happens when people start to get electrocuted by their cars?

Free charging stations will not be free anymore and lets say you live in an apartment complex? Who's going to wire all those stalls. OK say you live in the city and park on the street, how do you charge your car? There are still some serious problems and questions. Personally I think Hybrid cars are the answer for now, until we can move forward and develop batter ways to make all electric a reality.

But that would be too reasonable and conservative, right?

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 13:07

Again, with your anti-american whataboutism. Out of nowhere, another "fact" front the russian troll's playbook appeared.  ::)

These military bases are not imposed on anyone.
There is no American invasion in these countries.
Those countries are feeling more secure hosting these basis and are getting paid for it.
Some countries are even lobbying to convince the Americans to open more facilities on their teritories, especially Eastern European countries, who know too well what being a russian vasal meant.

Shure, that's why local are protesting against them all over the world. They can not be more aggressively imposed. Some even after invasions. You know from the other part of the world people want your military near their homes. I can not belive such ignorance and that someone can suck such propaganda LOL.

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/06/19/gettyimages-541176488_custom-9571616b49b752e04653faee42a5f57dd812d496.jpg)

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/11A3C/production/_90025227_mediaitem90025226.jpg)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSX_U65AJnOi9uDzzZIG5WeyXvrUB9jNpnTpg&usqp=CAU)

(https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/muos-base-italy-protests-students-1880x1253.jpg)

I can do this all day.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 13:16

TODAY, and nobody condemns that. Looks like a win in risk. And Russia would do the same if they could. And most if not all of people in those countries are against those bases being there and it represent hug war hazard potential for their regions as being targets.
 

1) "TODAY, and nobody condemns that." you and people like you do?
2) "And most if not all of people in those countries are against those bases being there" your conclusion I suspect, not a real bit of statistical data?
3) The governments allow and welcome these bases.


Sure the bases are being imposed with blackmailing terror, direct invasions, corruption of politicians , fear of sanctions and so on.

Show me a list of referendums of people in countries asking for US military presence on democratic basis ?

I know nobody around me would want your base here. Or any other country base.

And if they are such good things, show me a list o foreign military bases on US ground.

 
And who ever declared US to single willingly act a world policeman despite the will of the world ?

The whole world was against your invasion on false mass destruction weapons lies that everybody knew were lies. Literary the whole world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 13:18
Shure, that's why local are protesting against them all over the world. They can not be more aggressively imposed. Some even after invasions. You know from the other part of the world people want your military near their homes. I can not belive such ignorance and that someone can suck such propaganda LOL.

I can do this all day.


I know you can do this all day. Part of the MO :D

Are you trying to show that in these countries people have the freedom to protest?
Because that's a good thing!

It only proves that there is no unanimity on this topic. I wonder why would you expect unanimity?
Hmm... 
;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on April 17, 2023, 13:24
Shure, that's why local are protesting against them all over the world. They can not be more aggressively imposed. Some even after invasions. You know from the other part of the world people want your military near their homes. I can not belive such ignorance and that someone can suck such propaganda LOL.

I can do this all day.


I know you can do this all day.  :D

Are you trying to show that in these countries people have the freedom to protest?
Because that's a good thing!

It only proves that there is no unanimity on this topic. I wonder why would you expect unanimity? Hmm...  ;D

Now its a joke. Its just shows that there is no difference between Russian supporting Putin and you supporting this. Absolutely same brainwash level. Just you both want to play over European or other nations backs using them as pawns and victims.

There is Alaska, both of you have your chance to show muscles. But its easier to spread hate from your sofas and hope others will byte the propaganda  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 13:33

Now its a joke. Its just shows that there is no difference between Russian supporting Putin and you supporting this. Absolutely same brainwash level. Just you both want to play over European or other nations backs using them as pawns and victims.

There is Alaska, both of you have your chance to show muscles. But its easier to spread hate from your sofas and hope others will byte the propaganda  ;)

What?
When have you seen the last peaceful protest against a government decision in Russia?
What are you even talking about?

Being allowed to protest against their government decision is a good thing.

If enough are against it, they can always push their elected officials to act, or decide their faith in the next elections, if they don't. Maybe there is simply not enough critical mass to do that.

Maybe a majority of people in these european countries are feeling more secure under the NATO umbrella with american/NATO bases hosted on their territories, as a way to detter the russian aggression experienced by Ukraine today, and, throughout those ~45 years of russian imposed communism, by other east-european countries.

But for an anti-american marxist this may not be that obvious.  :D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2023, 14:12
Sure, Russia will or can occupy united Europe. Get real.
1. As long as the United States has bases and keeps troops in the EU, Russia cannot and will not be able to do anything.
2. All those photos are about nothing, this is not politics, these are some kind of single photos.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 17, 2023, 14:56
Sure, Russia will or can occupy united Europe. Get real.
1. As long as the United States has bases and keeps troops in the EU, Russia cannot and will not be able to do anything.
2. All those photos are about nothing, this is not politics, these are some kind of single photos.

He's just an agitator who likes to promote argument for the sake of arguing.


...


Can someone please remove the photos at the top of this page? This is a public forum.

.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 15:07

2. All those photos are about nothing, this is not politics, these are some kind of single photos.

As I said before these photos were first published in the American media, being provided by an American whistleblower.
The American public abhorred it.

The media held the politicians responsible. That is the opposite of brainwashing.

Seeing them being used by the russian troll farm as part of their "whataboutism" campaign is so precious!  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2023, 15:33

Now its a joke. Its just shows that there is no difference between Russian supporting Putin and you supporting this. Absolutely same brainwash level. Just you both want to play over European or other nations backs using them as pawns and victims.

There is Alaska, both of you have your chance to show muscles. But its easier to spread hate from your sofas and hope others will byte the propaganda  ;)

What?
When have you seen the last peaceful protest against a government decision in Russia?
What are you even talking about?

Being allowed to protest against their government decision is a good thing.

If enough are against it, they can always push their elected officials to act, or decide their faith in the next elections, if they don't. Maybe there is simply not enough critical mass to do that.

Maybe a majority of people in these european countries are feeling more secure under the NATO umbrella with american/NATO bases hosted on their territories, as a way to detter the russian aggression experienced by Ukraine today, and, throughout those ~45 years of russian imposed communism, by other east-european countries.

But for an anti-american marxist this may not be that obvious.  :D

I can say something about that - very specifically.

I was born in Heidelberg in Germany. A historic city. The city of German Romanticism.

Germany started the first and the second world war and lost both. Especially as far as World War II is concerned - in the context of what could have happened because of Hitler's megalomania - I'm glad it happened. The Allies made sure of that. The USA, France, UK and Russia divided Germany into occupation zones.

Heidelberg was in the US occupation zone. The US seemed to love the city and spared it. While neighboring cities (Mannheim, Ludwigshafen - 10 miles away) were almost completely destroyed as industrial sites, Heidelberg was spared. More to the point, Heidelberg became the headquarters of U.S. land forces in Europe for a long time. For 135,000 Heidelberg residents at the time, there were about 30,000 to 35,000 U.S. military personnel, with and beside whom I grew up. It was a peaceful coexistence. I got to know countless U.S. citizens from many states across the country. It was interesting because there was no internet. It was the direct exchange of information and communication from person to person.

I don't approve of everything the U.S. does. Mistakes are made there, too. And every now and then I would like to see more tact and restraint on international soil. Also, some political developments in the U.S. - and here I am with Pete's entry into this thread - worry me a lot. Because they could shake up democracy.

But one thing is for sure: I would never want to live under the current Russian conditions - in terms of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, independent judicial system, freedom of the media, right of opposition and much more. And - with all justified criticism - prefer the U.S. model any day. And sincerely hope that the U.S. will continue to protect these fundamental values.

And, yes, Europe would have a problem with its own defense and that of its own democratic values without the US.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 17, 2023, 16:05
Well one thing is for sure. The Western governments said they were not at war with Russia and they had no boots on the ground. Another lie by our statesmen and NATO so it seemed this week.
Although it's quite silly to say you are not at war with a country when you are sending tons of weapons to their enemy. But anyway, the point is that we are being lied to once again by our leaders. You can be fine with it, I am getting sick of all involved parties here actually. The only sensible word I heard this week was from Brazil stating that the US should not promote the war so much.
By the way all this war mongering is leading each week into a more split world. BRICS is getting closer together and China is even thinking of trading in the dollar for it's own currency for international trade. That would seriously give a blow to the US dollar and economy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2023, 16:13
I was born in Heidelberg in Germany. A historic city. The city of German Romanticism.

Germany started the first and the second world war and lost both. Especially as far as World War II is concerned - in the context of what could have happened because of Hitler's megalomania - I'm glad it happened. The Allies made sure of that. The USA, France, UK and Russia divided Germany into occupation zones.

Heidelberg was in the US occupation zone. The US seemed to love the city and spared it. While neighboring cities (Mannheim, Ludwigshafen - 10 miles away) were almost completely destroyed as industrial sites, Heidelberg was spared. More to the point, Heidelberg became the headquarters of U.S. land forces in Europe for a long time. For 135,000 Heidelberg residents at the time, there were about 30,000 to 35,000 U.S. military personnel, with and beside whom I grew up. It was a peaceful coexistence. I got to know countless U.S. citizens from many states across the country. It was interesting because there was no internet. It was the direct exchange of information and communication from person to person.

I don't approve of everything the U.S. does. Mistakes are made there, too. And every now and then I would like to see more tact and restraint on international soil. Also, some political developments in the U.S. - and here I am with Pete's entry into this thread - worry me a lot. Because they could shake up democracy.

But one thing is for sure: I would never want to live under the current Russian conditions - in terms of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, independent judicial system, freedom of the media, right of opposition and much more. And - with all justified criticism - prefer the U.S. model any day. And sincerely hope that the U.S. will continue to protect these fundamental values.

And, yes, Europe would have a problem with its own defense and that of its own democratic values without the US.
I was also born in a city that is in the proximity of an American military base, so I also know a bit about how locals are feeling about American soldiers roaming around.

That place flourished, both from direct investments and indirectly, from businesses serving the base.
The locals, who have embraced the new opportunities will most likeley protest if someone would think about closing it.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2023, 16:25
Well one thing is for sure. The Western governments said they were not at war with Russia and they had no boots on the ground. Another lie by our statesmen and NATO so it seemed this week.
Although it's quite silly to say you are not at war with a country when you are sending tons of weapons to their enemy. But anyway, the point is that we are being lied to once again by our leaders. You can be fine with it, I am getting sick of all involved parties here actually. The only sensible word I heard this week was from Brazil stating that the US should not promote the war so much.
By the way all this war mongering is leading each week into a more split world. BRICS is getting closer together and China is even thinking of trading in the dollar for it's own currency for international trade. That would seriously give a blow to the US dollar and economy.

After all, Western governments cannot be at war with Russia. After all, according to Russia, it is not a war, but a special operation. Anyone who utters the word "war" in Russia will be arrested. It is silly to claim that you are not at war with Ukraine when you have been transporting hundreds of thousands of soldiers and vast sums of war equipment and ammunition there for over a year and now you want to mobilize even more reservists.
And, yes, China now wants to strengthen military cooperation with Russia, instead of its own statements that diplomatic means must be used to end the war (which, as we know, is not a war).

Moreover, I would be more than grateful to the Brazilians if they had addressed these words to Putin as well.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2023, 06:48
Well one thing is for sure. The Western governments said they were not at war with Russia and they had no boots on the ground. Another lie by our statesmen and NATO so it seemed this week.
Although it's quite silly to say you are not at war with a country when you are sending tons of weapons to their enemy. But anyway, the point is that we are being lied to once again by our leaders. You can be fine with it, I am getting sick of all involved parties here actually. The only sensible word I heard this week was from Brazil stating that the US should not promote the war so much.
By the way all this war mongering is leading each week into a more split world. BRICS is getting closer together and China is even thinking of trading in the dollar for it's own currency for international trade. That would seriously give a blow to the US dollar and economy.
1. A year ago, Russia put forward an ultimatum to NATO, and demanded that NATO get out on the border of the 40s of the last century. In fact, this is already a declaration of war on NATO and all of Eastern Europe.
2. There are no NATO soldiers in Ukraine who take part in the hostilities. There is only a foreign legion, but it only has volunteers from around the world.
3. Brazil supports Russia, as does China.
4. China is not able to replace the dollar, but the US is able to kill the Chinese economy. And the sooner the United States does this, the sooner there will be world peace.
5. If Russia occupies all of Ukraine, the war will spread to the NATO countries, and the captured Ukrainians will be driven ahead of the Russian troops. These are millions of people. If NATO uses nuclear weapons, it will kill the environment in many European countries. Therefore, the sooner NATO troops enter into hostilities with Russia, and the sooner the Russian fascists are expelled from Ukraine, the sooner peace will come to Europe.
6. NATO troops may not engage in hostilities if they are so afraid of it, especially after an ultimatum addressed to them. But NATO must provide good aircraft, long-range missiles, a lot of shells, artillery and tanks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Perhaps the Armed Forces of Ukraine will then cope with Russia without NATO.
Ukraine will also need tactical nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2023, 08:36

1. A year ago, Russia put forward an ultimatum to NATO, and demanded that NATO get out on the border of the 40s of the last century. In fact, this is already a declaration of war on NATO and all of Eastern Europe.

This is de-facto asking for NATO to be dismantled, because there is no provision in the treaty allowing a group of members to expel another group of members.
The only possibility is for the more recently accepted eastern european countries to ask themselves out, and let the legacy members create a new treaty.
This will never happen, not only because these countries have decades of experience being colonies of the imperial russia and soviet empire, but even more because today, everybody can see very clearly how the attrocious "russkiy mir" also translated as "pax russica" or "russian peace" ::) (not just "russian world"), is being materialized in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: farbled on April 18, 2023, 12:55
I see so much false equivalency in this thread, and because I lack the wherewithal to simply ignore, I had to put in my two cents worth.

Comparing the US to Russia in the context of this debate is completely, totally, a case of false equivalency. The US is a war machine in many ways, no doubt, but the (documented) abuses by its soldiers in no way reflects policy at the highest levels. No US general has (IMHO) sat and instructed the troops to go forward and r*pe, pillage, t*rture, and kidnap children as a military goal (https://news.yahoo.com/kill-women-children-mop-operation-135642235.html (https://news.yahoo.com/kill-women-children-mop-operation-135642235.html) or https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/04/europe/russia-military-culture-brutality-intl/index.html, (https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/04/europe/russia-military-culture-brutality-intl/index.html,) or https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-generals-ordered-soldiers-to-use-r (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-generals-ordered-soldiers-to-use-r)*pe-as-a-weapon-in-ukraine/ar-AA14v9u0 ). It is not so in the other direction. The documented atrocities of the Russian soldiers and their commanders is beyond the pale.

And at the end of the day, Russia invaded a sovereign country with the ability to fight back, and now is getting its butt kicked badly.

The same false equivalency is at the beginning of this thread as well. The arguments at the start seem to say "there are fanatics on both sides" which to me seems very uneven. Yes, in the general population there is that case to be made. But implying its the same on both sides at a leadership level, well, I don't see that at all.

 No former president (except the last) has made the case to deny aid to certain states based on their governor's politics, for example. Same with castigating the head of the CDC because he disagrees with the conclusions, or not supporting your own troops because his party isn't in power, or fomenting an insurrection that failed only due to sheer incompetence... but Obama did wear a tan suit once, I guess so yeah, maybe it is the same (lol). You guys need some stronger treason laws for rich/powerful people, in my opinion.

And what the heck is "fiscally conservative" anyway? Historically in the US, just like mine, the conservative/right always increases the deficits and then relies on the liberals/left to bring spending down. The are exceptions, but basically some are saying you would rather go further in to debt than try and balance the budget? Odd...

Ditto with Pete's "socialism" boogeyman argument. We have debated this in the past, and I think you already have socialism. Its just geared toward business instead of people and costs a lot more than directly helping your citizens (bank bailouts, resources and farming subsidies, high tech loans like Space-X...) Again, like in my country, its a catch-word that people use to take away safety nets for poor people. In my country, our more vocal conservative leaders and their strident followers would rather pay more for less, as long as someone who "doesn't deserve it" gets nothing. Its baffling to be honest.

(The political right in my country, Canada, is roughly in the same place on the spectrum as most of your Democrats in the US, in my opinion of course. They seem to be trying to change that and go further right, but are sinking into irrelevancy by doing so.)

Lastly, Irish whiskey, and Canadian rye whiskey are better than scotch. Yes, I said it. :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 18, 2023, 13:49
Well one thing is for sure. The Western governments said they were not at war with Russia and they had no boots on the ground. Another lie by our statesmen and NATO so it seemed this week.
Although it's quite silly to say you are not at war with a country when you are sending tons of weapons to their enemy. But anyway, the point is that we are being lied to once again by our leaders. You can be fine with it, I am getting sick of all involved parties here actually. The only sensible word I heard this week was from Brazil stating that the US should not promote the war so much.
By the way all this war mongering is leading each week into a more split world. BRICS is getting closer together and China is even thinking of trading in the dollar for it's own currency for international trade. That would seriously give a blow to the US dollar and economy.

You don't want war, neither do I - nor anyone here I am sure, SVH. But its too late - its already started.

This aired here on Monday night. If you don't want to watch the whole thing - at least watch the last 10 minutes, starting at around 35:00.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-17/hackers-inc:-chasing-the-cybercrime-syndicates/102233374 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-17/hackers-inc:-chasing-the-cybercrime-syndicates/102233374)

On a personal note, my husband's accounts were hacked in 3 of the institutions mentioned here. He's been at his wits end, as one after another of the big hacks have been reported to him, madly running around trying to change things like his drivers licence, etc.

Its interesting that some of the hacker's comments about Australia in the beginning of this episode are directly out of that "Why We Hate" documentary (episodes 1 and 2).

Its real and its happening now. And Russia is directly targeting USA, Australia, and EU countries, as well as Ukraine.

This is what USA and Australian intelligence are aware of, and what is really going on behind the scenes. Its a different kind of war, this time around.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 18, 2023, 15:12
Well one thing is for sure. The Western governments said they were not at war with Russia and they had no boots on the ground. Another lie by our statesmen and NATO so it seemed this week.
Although it's quite silly to say you are not at war with a country when you are sending tons of weapons to their enemy. But anyway, the point is that we are being lied to once again by our leaders. You can be fine with it, I am getting sick of all involved parties here actually. The only sensible word I heard this week was from Brazil stating that the US should not promote the war so much.
By the way all this war mongering is leading each week into a more split world. BRICS is getting closer together and China is even thinking of trading in the dollar for it's own currency for international trade. That would seriously give a blow to the US dollar and economy.
1. A year ago, Russia put forward an ultimatum to NATO, and demanded that NATO get out on the border of the 40s of the last century. In fact, this is already a declaration of war on NATO and all of Eastern Europe.
2. There are no NATO soldiers in Ukraine who take part in the hostilities. There is only a foreign legion, but it only has volunteers from around the world.
3. Brazil supports Russia, as does China.
4. China is not able to replace the dollar, but the US is able to kill the Chinese economy. And the sooner the United States does this, the sooner there will be world peace.
5. If Russia occupies all of Ukraine, the war will spread to the NATO countries, and the captured Ukrainians will be driven ahead of the Russian troops. These are millions of people. If NATO uses nuclear weapons, it will kill the environment in many European countries. Therefore, the sooner NATO troops enter into hostilities with Russia, and the sooner the Russian fascists are expelled from Ukraine, the sooner peace will come to Europe.
6. NATO troops may not engage in hostilities if they are so afraid of it, especially after an ultimatum addressed to them. But NATO must provide good aircraft, long-range missiles, a lot of shells, artillery and tanks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Perhaps the Armed Forces of Ukraine will then cope with Russia without NATO.
Ukraine will also need tactical nuclear weapons.

Funny that someone, who was supposedly to block me, still reacts on my comments :)
But:
* Military personnel of NATO countries that are active on Ukraine soil is NATO, not a bunch of volunteers. Read the newspapers.
* China is sitting on a crap load of dollars and can wipe the dollar of the face of the earth if they wanted to. Read your financial news.
* Ukraine is not one people. There are many etnic Russians in the East. That's why there was a civil war for the last ten years. Then there was a Minsk agreement that was broken by the Ukranian government and then things became sour. Read into the history.

But you believe all that is said by your preferred media instead of doing research of your own and thinking for yourself. If you are more happy like that then be my guest.

Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:
* Haiti
* Cuba
* Domenican Republic
* Korea
* Laos
* Libanon
* Vietnam
* Cambodja
* Panama
* Irak
* Somalia
* Serbia
* Afghanistan
* Libya



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 18, 2023, 15:19
I read here very interested.

But in Germany we really have other serious problems at the moment. 

This criminal group of pensioners ballet was initially banned from a public event in our country because of racist costumes and cultural appropriation of mexican culture - "The sombrero ban scandal"
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: farbled on April 18, 2023, 15:22
nvm...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2023, 15:29

* China is sitting on a crap load of dollars and can wipe the dollar of the face of the earth if they wanted to. Read your financial news.

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.

Those dollars, if released by China, will eventually return to the USA, either directly or indirectly, to buy USA goods, thus boosting the American economy.
That's a good thing for the USA.

If China decides to burn down that pile of dollars, then that would be the best trade ever for the USA: free chinese goods against a worthless pile of ashes.
That's a good thing for the USA

If they decide to keep saving them, then it's only a sign that they trust the USA economy.
They know that in the future they will continue to be able to exchange them against US goods (directly or indirectly)
That's a good thing for the USA.

 ;)

The only danger for the US dollar comes from US politicians with a protectionist agenda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 18, 2023, 18:35

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.



Speaking of Tucker, Fox just settled with Dominion for over 3/4 billion dollars.

Gretchen Carlson tweeted yesterday:

"PLEASE Dominion --- Do not settle with Fox! You're about to prove something very big."

https://twitter.com/GretchenCarlson/status/1647782311469936646

I'm with her, I wish they didn't settle.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: farbled on April 18, 2023, 19:26

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.



Speaking of Tucker, Fox just settled with Dominion for over 3/4 billion dollars.

Gretchen Carlson tweeted yesterday:

"PLEASE Dominion --- Do not settle with Fox! You're about to prove something very big."

https://twitter.com/GretchenCarlson/status/1647782311469936646

I'm with her, I wish they didn't settle.

Jake Tapper has the best take on it so far:
"'Difficult to say with a straight face': Tapper reacts to Fox News' statement on settlement"
cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/04/18/jake-tapper-dominion-lawsuit-settlement-fox-news-statement-lead-vpx.cnn
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 18, 2023, 21:40

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.



Speaking of Tucker, Fox just settled with Dominion for over 3/4 billion dollars.

Gretchen Carlson tweeted yesterday:

"PLEASE Dominion --- Do not settle with Fox! You're about to prove something very big."

https://twitter.com/GretchenCarlson/status/1647782311469936646

I'm with her, I wish they didn't settle.

Jake Tapper has the best take on it so far:
"'Difficult to say with a straight face': Tapper reacts to Fox News' statement on settlement"
cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/04/18/jake-tapper-dominion-lawsuit-settlement-fox-news-statement-lead-vpx.cnn

I saw that! lol

But on a serious note, Terry. You know what the saddest part of all of this is? Murdoch said, in discovery, that they did it so as not to lose viewers. If this is true, then the sad part is that there are so many viewers, who are either so indoctrinated or hate Democrats so much, that they would change the station than rather hear the truth.

Too much hate in this world :( (now we're back to Pete's opening comments)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: farbled on April 18, 2023, 22:03

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.



Speaking of Tucker, Fox just settled with Dominion for over 3/4 billion dollars.

Gretchen Carlson tweeted yesterday:

"PLEASE Dominion --- Do not settle with Fox! You're about to prove something very big."

https://twitter.com/GretchenCarlson/status/1647782311469936646

I'm with her, I wish they didn't settle.

Jake Tapper has the best take on it so far:
"'Difficult to say with a straight face': Tapper reacts to Fox News' statement on settlement"
cnn.com/videos/politics/2023/04/18/jake-tapper-dominion-lawsuit-settlement-fox-news-statement-lead-vpx.cnn

I saw that! lol

But on a serious note, Terry. You know what the saddest part of all of this is? Murdoch said, in discovery, that they did it so as not to lose viewers. If this is true, then the sad part is that there are so many viewers, who are either so indoctrinated or hate Democrats so much, that they would change the station than rather hear the truth.

Too much hate in this world :( (now we're back to Pete's opening comments)

Yup. Completely agree with that. Too much insistence on finding outrage instead of common ground, and at the end it boils down to money, as it always seems to these days.

Anyway, my last post. I just came to say my little piece and (hopefully) connect with a friend I fell out of touch with, since I don't have their email. I owe them an apology and a catch-up. :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2023, 02:28
Funny that someone, who was supposedly to block me, still reacts on my comments :)
оk

But:
* Military personnel of NATO countries that are active on Ukraine soil is NATO, not a bunch of volunteers. Read the newspapers.
I wrote about those who are directly involved in hostilities. You need to read more carefully.

* Ukraine is not one people. There are many etnic Russians in the East. That's why there was a civil war for the last ten years. Then there was a Minsk agreement that was broken by the Ukranian government and then things became sour. Read into the history.
Brad and Russian propaganda, which is one and the same. There has never been a civil war in Ukraine. The war is going on with the Russian occupiers, who have sent troops to the Donbas since 2014, and they have also been joined by separatists, who are many in any country in the world. Some people were forced by Russian non-humans to fight against Ukraine.
KGB agent Merkel forced Kyiv to sign the capitulation in the form of the Minsk agreements.

Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:
* Haiti
* Cuba
* Domenican Republic
* Korea
* Laos
* Libanon
* Vietnam
* Cambodja
* Panama
* Irak
* Somalia
* Serbia
* Afghanistan
* Libya
These were wars against communism and terrorists. The United States did everything right, but it’s a pity they did little. The communist and terrorist plague has reared its head again, and now it has not 1 but 3 heads.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 19, 2023, 11:39

Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:
* Haiti
* Cuba
* Domenican Republic
* Korea
* Laos
* Libanon
* Vietnam
* Cambodja
* Panama
* Irak
* Somalia
* Serbia
* Afghanistan
* Libya

Real simple, the US did not INVADE those countries. But I told myself I wasn't going to get into this whatabout argument and the mistaken propaganda twisted falsehoods. So I should stop. Russia invaded the Ukraine, they are at war, they are trying to take over the country. Just as a side note, the US and other countries that got involved in any of the above conflicts, were not taking over the country.

Lets not forget: Trump "knows he’s an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn’t on the level." Plus claims that the Russians swayed the election as well.

Sorry Fox and the people in denial and the still sold on some conspiracy folks... Biden won fair and square. Get over it!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 19, 2023, 13:31

* China is sitting on a crap load of dollars and can wipe the dollar of the face of the earth if they wanted to. Read your financial news.

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.

Those dollars, if released by China, will eventually return to the USA, either directly or indirectly, to buy USA goods, thus boosting the American economy.
That's a good thing for the USA.

If China decides to burn down that pile of dollars, then that would be the best trade ever for the USA: free chinese goods against a worthless pile of ashes.
That's a good thing for the USA

If they decide to keep saving them, then it's only a sign that they trust the USA economy.
They know that in the future they will continue to be able to exchange them against US goods (directly or indirectly)
That's a good thing for the USA.

 ;)

The only danger for the US dollar comes from US politicians with a protectionist agenda.

You, on the other hand, have no idea how currency trading works. You do your study and you will understand that dumping a currency in large quantities and without a need for this currency will weaken that currency enormously. But that step will let suffer China also (they get less money for what it's worth now) so they will not take that step so swiftly. But if you keep poking they might. Keep on poking and see what happens :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 19, 2023, 13:35

Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:
* Haiti
* Cuba
* Domenican Republic
* Korea
* Laos
* Libanon
* Vietnam
* Cambodja
* Panama
* Irak
* Somalia
* Serbia
* Afghanistan
* Libya

Real simple, the US did not INVADE those countries. But I told myself I wasn't going to get into this whatabout argument and the mistaken propaganda twisted falsehoods. So I should stop. Russia invaded the Ukraine, they are at war, they are trying to take over the country. Just as a side note, the US and other countries that got involved in any of the above conflicts, were not taking over the country.

Lets not forget: Trump "knows he’s an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn’t on the level." Plus claims that the Russians swayed the election as well.

Sorry Fox and the people in denial and the still sold on some conspiracy folks... Biden won fair and square. Get over it!


I remember quite well when CNN was broadcasting live bombardments on Bagdad. The shock and awe technique. You think those were military targets? It was the whole bloody city. Everybody was sitting with popcorn to watch the show. Meanwhile, innocent Irakians were losing there lives. And everybody was cheering. I detest Islamic extremism but I can understand they were a little pissed off about this. Same as in Afghanistan, Libya etc... Bombs away :) Collateral damage right?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2023, 13:37

* China is sitting on a crap load of dollars and can wipe the dollar of the face of the earth if they wanted to. Read your financial news.

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.

Those dollars, if released by China, will eventually return to the USA, either directly or indirectly, to buy USA goods, thus boosting the American economy.
That's a good thing for the USA.

If China decides to burn down that pile of dollars, then that would be the best trade ever for the USA: free chinese goods against a worthless pile of ashes.
That's a good thing for the USA

If they decide to keep saving them, then it's only a sign that they trust the USA economy.
They know that in the future they will continue to be able to exchange them against US goods (directly or indirectly)
That's a good thing for the USA.

 ;)

The only danger for the US dollar comes from US politicians with a protectionist agenda.

You, on the other hand, have no idea how currency trading works. You do your study and you will understand that dumping a currency in large quantities and without a need for this currency will weaken that currency enormously. But that step will let suffer China also (they get less money for what it's worth now) so they will not take that step so swiftly. But if you keep poking they might. Keep on poking and see what happens :)
I think the United States will impose sanctions against China and China will be in the 80-90s of the last century. This country steals technology and spreads authoritarianism, supports Russia and is a threat to democracy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2023, 13:39

Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:
* Haiti
* Cuba
* Domenican Republic
* Korea
* Laos
* Libanon
* Vietnam
* Cambodja
* Panama
* Irak
* Somalia
* Serbia
* Afghanistan
* Libya

Real simple, the US did not INVADE those countries. But I told myself I wasn't going to get into this whatabout argument and the mistaken propaganda twisted falsehoods. So I should stop. Russia invaded the Ukraine, they are at war, they are trying to take over the country. Just as a side note, the US and other countries that got involved in any of the above conflicts, were not taking over the country.

Lets not forget: Trump "knows he’s an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn’t on the level." Plus claims that the Russians swayed the election as well.

Sorry Fox and the people in denial and the still sold on some conspiracy folks... Biden won fair and square. Get over it!


I remember quite well when CNN was broadcasting live bombardments on Bagdad. The shock and awe technique. You think those were military targets? It was the whole bloody city. Everybody was sitting with popcorn to watch the show. Meanwhile, innocent Irakians were losing there lives. And everybody was cheering. I detest Islamic extremism but I can understand they were a little pissed off about this. Same as in Afghanistan, Libya etc... Bombs away :) Collateral damage right?
Tyrants, terrorists and autocracies are to blame for everything. The US had no other choice.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 19, 2023, 13:42

Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:
* Haiti
* Cuba
* Domenican Republic
* Korea
* Laos
* Libanon
* Vietnam
* Cambodja
* Panama
* Irak
* Somalia
* Serbia
* Afghanistan
* Libya

Real simple, the US did not INVADE those countries. But I told myself I wasn't going to get into this whatabout argument and the mistaken propaganda twisted falsehoods. So I should stop. Russia invaded the Ukraine, they are at war, they are trying to take over the country. Just as a side note, the US and other countries that got involved in any of the above conflicts, were not taking over the country.

Lets not forget: Trump "knows he’s an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn’t on the level." Plus claims that the Russians swayed the election as well.

Sorry Fox and the people in denial and the still sold on some conspiracy folks... Biden won fair and square. Get over it!


I remember quite well when CNN was broadcasting live bombardments on Bagdad. The shock and awe technique. You think those were military targets? It was the whole bloody city. Everybody was sitting with popcorn to watch the show. Meanwhile, innocent Irakians were losing there lives. And everybody was cheering. I detest Islamic extremism but I can understand they were a little pissed off about this. Same as in Afghanistan, Libya etc... Bombs away :) Collateral damage right?
Tyrants, terrorists and autocracies are to blame for everything. The US had no other choice.
Really? Block me. I can't argue with stupid.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 19, 2023, 14:10

You, on the other hand, have no idea how currency trading works. You do your study and you will understand that dumping a currency in large quantities and without a need for this currency will weaken that currency enormously. But that step will let suffer China also (they get less money for what it's worth now) so they will not take that step so swiftly. But if you keep poking they might. Keep on poking and see what happens :)

See the first point I made above. If China decides to spend their dollar savings, the American products will have a surge in demand and the exports will go up, boosting the American economy.

But if China decides to dump their dollar savings too fast, then you will not only have the effect of the first point, but also the effect of my second point.
It's the equivalent of China selling at a loss their dollar reserves, in other words, burning down a part of their reserves.

Actually many countries are intentionally printing money to flood the market with their currency, to devalue it, and stimulate their exports. This is bad because it's a permanent effect leading to inflation. But if China decides to suddenly dispose of their dollars savings, there will be no inflationary effect, because the dollar mass on the market remains the same.
Yes, the dollar may briefly appear weaker (market driven fluctuations happen all the time), but once the chinese reserves will be spent, things will return to normal and China loses.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2023, 06:44
Really? Block me. I can't argue with stupid.
When there are no arguments, get personal. Your drain is counted.

I'm sending the Russian troll to ignore.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 20, 2023, 13:08

Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:
* Haiti
* Cuba
* Domenican Republic
* Korea
* Laos
* Libanon
* Vietnam
* Cambodja
* Panama
* Irak
* Somalia
* Serbia
* Afghanistan
* Libya

Real simple, the US did not INVADE those countries. But I told myself I wasn't going to get into this whatabout argument and the mistaken propaganda twisted falsehoods. So I should stop. Russia invaded the Ukraine, they are at war, they are trying to take over the country. Just as a side note, the US and other countries that got involved in any of the above conflicts, were not taking over the country.

Lets not forget: Trump "knows he’s an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn’t on the level." Plus claims that the Russians swayed the election as well.

Sorry Fox and the people in denial and the still sold on some conspiracy folks... Biden won fair and square. Get over it!


I remember quite well when CNN was broadcasting live bombardments on Bagdad. The shock and awe technique. You think those were military targets? It was the whole bloody city. Everybody was sitting with popcorn to watch the show. Meanwhile, innocent Irakians were losing there lives. And everybody was cheering. I detest Islamic extremism but I can understand they were a little pissed off about this. Same as in Afghanistan, Libya etc... Bombs away :) Collateral damage right?

Whatever fighting or actions, I'm not pointing at that, legal, illegal, asked for, or intentions or anything else.

"Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:"

The US did not invade any country and wasn't trying to take over those countries. Russia is invading and trying to take over the Ukraine. Simple facts, and the honest truth, don't lie.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 21, 2023, 15:08

You, on the other hand, have no idea how currency trading works. You do your study and you will understand that dumping a currency in large quantities and without a need for this currency will weaken that currency enormously. But that step will let suffer China also (they get less money for what it's worth now) so they will not take that step so swiftly. But if you keep poking they might. Keep on poking and see what happens :)

See the first point I made above. If China decides to spend their dollar savings, the American products will have a surge in demand and the exports will go up, boosting the American economy.

But if China decides to dump their dollar savings too fast, then you will not only have the effect of the first point, but also the effect of my second point.
It's the equivalent of China selling at a loss their dollar reserves, in other words, burning down a part of their reserves.

Actually many countries are intentionally printing money to flood the market with their currency, to devalue it, and stimulate their exports. This is bad because it's a permanent effect leading to inflation. But if China decides to suddenly dispose of their dollars savings, there will be no inflationary effect, because the dollar mass on the market remains the same.
Yes, the dollar may briefly appear weaker (market driven fluctuations happen all the time), but once the chinese reserves will be spent, things will return to normal and China loses.


You think China is still dependend on it's exports like 20 years ago, right? They are not, they have created a self sustaining economy almost. Do your math. BRICS is by the way (214million (Brazil) + 143 million (Russia) + 1408 million (India) + 1412 million (China) + 59 million(South Africa) = 3,236 million inhabitants. EU + USA is just (447 + 332) 779 million. Factor 5 almost. Just that you know the numbers you are going against when the split actually happens. You can think you are big but they are a bit bigger actually when it comes down to a showdown. They are growing each year, we are shrinking. Just saying :)
Holland, Portugal and England once ruled the world not even 300 years ago. That also came to an end. Not to speak about the Romans. Enjoy why it lasts but this state of affairs will not be the last. And it might even change in your lifetime.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 21, 2023, 15:10
Really? Block me. I can't argue with stupid.
When there are no arguments, get personal. Your drain is counted.

I'm sending the Russian troll to ignore.
Please do finally :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 21, 2023, 15:19

Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:
* Haiti
* Cuba
* Domenican Republic
* Korea
* Laos
* Libanon
* Vietnam
* Cambodja
* Panama
* Irak
* Somalia
* Serbia
* Afghanistan
* Libya

Real simple, the US did not INVADE those countries. But I told myself I wasn't going to get into this whatabout argument and the mistaken propaganda twisted falsehoods. So I should stop. Russia invaded the Ukraine, they are at war, they are trying to take over the country. Just as a side note, the US and other countries that got involved in any of the above conflicts, were not taking over the country.

Lets not forget: Trump "knows he’s an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn’t on the level." Plus claims that the Russians swayed the election as well.

Sorry Fox and the people in denial and the still sold on some conspiracy folks... Biden won fair and square. Get over it!


I remember quite well when CNN was broadcasting live bombardments on Bagdad. The shock and awe technique. You think those were military targets? It was the whole bloody city. Everybody was sitting with popcorn to watch the show. Meanwhile, innocent Irakians were losing there lives. And everybody was cheering. I detest Islamic extremism but I can understand they were a little pissed off about this. Same as in Afghanistan, Libya etc... Bombs away :) Collateral damage right?

Whatever fighting or actions, I'm not pointing at that, legal, illegal, asked for, or intentions or anything else.

"Just wondering what you would have said when America invaded (in the last century after WO II) the following countries and Russia started delivering weapons to those countries (and did actually sometimes) to defend themselves:"

The US did not invade any country and wasn't trying to take over those countries. Russia is invading and trying to take over the Ukraine. Simple facts, and the honest truth, don't lie.

Ok Pete, they did not invade to make it American soil. Agreed. But they did invade in the sence they breached the sovereignty of that country either by attacking it with boots on the ground or bombarding it to hell. Or not? If I think that Biden is a dictator and should be removed for the sake of American people and I would send my army in and bomb Washington DC, without actually making America my home soil, would it be OK then?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 21, 2023, 16:00
Where are you from, SVH?

It's true: the Roman Empire also disintegrated. The same goes for the Ottoman Empire. The advanced civilizations of Greece or Egypt - all history.

But from your lines I somehow read out that you wish for a Russian or Chinese empire. Is that really so?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2023, 07:39
Where are you from, SVH?
He is either from Russia or the Russian KGB (FSB) pays him for the dissemination of false Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 22, 2023, 09:50
Where are you from, SVH?

It's true: the Roman Empire also disintegrated. The same goes for the Ottoman Empire. The advanced civilizations of Greece or Egypt - all history.

But from your lines I somehow read out that you wish for a Russian or Chinese empire. Is that really so?

No need to wish for it.

The russian empire is still in place with its colonial and imperialist agenda, dominating 190 ethnic groups (Tatars, Chechens, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Avars, Dargins, Kazakhs, etc...), many of which are still living in well defined regions, despite the aggressive ethnic cleansing, deportation and russification policies they were subject to.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 22, 2023, 12:38
Where are you from, SVH?

It's true: the Roman Empire also disintegrated. The same goes for the Ottoman Empire. The advanced civilizations of Greece or Egypt - all history.

But from your lines I somehow read out that you wish for a Russian or Chinese empire. Is that really so?
Western part of Europe. Funny that when I am a bit critical on our own governments, who in my eyes, are on a war path with BRICS, I immediately would wish for a Russian or Chinese Empire.
Do you agree with all the things your government does and says? Actually that reminds me of a period of 80 years ago in your country. Don't you have a personal opinion (that may deviate) or can you you only repeat what is fed to you by your government and media?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 22, 2023, 14:33
Where are you from, SVH?

It's true: the Roman Empire also disintegrated. The same goes for the Ottoman Empire. The advanced civilizations of Greece or Egypt - all history.

But from your lines I somehow read out that you wish for a Russian or Chinese empire. Is that really so?
Western part of Europe. Funny that when I am a bit critical on our own governments, who in my eyes, are on a war path with BRICS, I immediately would wish for a Russian or Chinese Empire.
Do you agree with all the things your government does and says? Actually that reminds me of a period of 80 years ago in your country. Don't you have a personal opinion (that may deviate) or can you you only repeat what is fed to you by your government and media?

You didn‘t answer my question.

To answer your question: Yes, I have my own opinion. If you look back, you can read some of it.

I am far from agreeing with everything that my current government or its predecessors have done. But do you know what I really appreciate about my government, despite all its possible faults? Not only am I allowed to have my own opinion - I'm even allowed to say it without being arrested.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 24, 2023, 10:58

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.



Speaking of Tucker, Fox just settled with Dominion for over 3/4 billion dollars.

Gretchen Carlson tweeted yesterday:

"PLEASE Dominion --- Do not settle with Fox! You're about to prove something very big."

https://twitter.com/GretchenCarlson/status/1647782311469936646

I'm with her, I wish they didn't settle.

Speaking of Tucker (also the most "popular" non-russian prime time host on the russian state media):

Fox News said Monday that it was parting ways with Tucker Carlson, its most popular prime time host who was also the source of repeated controversies and headaches for the network because of his statements on everything from race relations to L.G.B.T.Q. rights.

The network made the announcement less than a week after it agreed to pay $787.5 million in a defamation lawsuit in which Mr. Carlson’s show, one of the highest rated on Fox, figured prominently for its role in spreading misinformation after the 2020 election.

In making its announcement, Fox offered a terse statement of gratitude. “Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to part ways. We thank him for his service to the network as a host and prior to that as a contributor,” it said.

His last program was on Friday, Fox said.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2023, 12:16
Fox News said Monday that it was parting ways with Tucker Carlson
Great news! He promoted Russian propaganda in the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on April 24, 2023, 12:43
Where are you from, SVH?

It's true: the Roman Empire also disintegrated. The same goes for the Ottoman Empire. The advanced civilizations of Greece or Egypt - all history.

But from your lines I somehow read out that you wish for a Russian or Chinese empire. Is that really so?
Western part of Europe. Funny that when I am a bit critical on our own governments, who in my eyes, are on a war path with BRICS, I immediately would wish for a Russian or Chinese Empire.
Do you agree with all the things your government does and says? Actually that reminds me of a period of 80 years ago in your country. Don't you have a personal opinion (that may deviate) or can you you only repeat what is fed to you by your government and media?

You didn‘t answer my question.

To answer your question: Yes, I have my own opinion. If you look back, you can read some of it.

I am far from agreeing with everything that my current government or its predecessors have done. But do you know what I really appreciate about my government, despite all its possible faults? Not only am I allowed to have my own opinion - I'm even allowed to say it without being arrested.

And you can vote them out. Well, not you specifically, but you know what I mean.
Even more, you can stand for election yourself, or even start your own political party.

Not saying it's easy, not saying it's flawless, because it isn't. Far from.
But I'm convinced it's the lesser evil compared to many other systems in the world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2023, 12:53
Where are you from, SVH?

It's true: the Roman Empire also disintegrated. The same goes for the Ottoman Empire. The advanced civilizations of Greece or Egypt - all history.

But from your lines I somehow read out that you wish for a Russian or Chinese empire. Is that really so?
Western part of Europe. Funny that when I am a bit critical on our own governments, who in my eyes, are on a war path with BRICS, I immediately would wish for a Russian or Chinese Empire.
Do you agree with all the things your government does and says? Actually that reminds me of a period of 80 years ago in your country. Don't you have a personal opinion (that may deviate) or can you you only repeat what is fed to you by your government and media?

You didn‘t answer my question.

To answer your question: Yes, I have my own opinion. If you look back, you can read some of it.

I am far from agreeing with everything that my current government or its predecessors have done. But do you know what I really appreciate about my government, despite all its possible faults? Not only am I allowed to have my own opinion - I'm even allowed to say it without being arrested.

And you can vote them out. Well, not you specifically, but you know what I mean.
Even more, you can stand for election yourself, or even start your own political party.

Not saying it's easy, not saying it's flawless, because it isn't. Far from.
But I'm convinced it's the lesser evil compared to many other systems in the world.
Just not Merkel and Schröder. They are just as evil and the same criminal as Putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 24, 2023, 13:10
Fox News said Monday that it was parting ways with Tucker Carlson
Great news! He promoted Russian propaganda in the USA.

... and here comes the job offer. I wonder why nobody seems to be surprised!  ::)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 24, 2023, 14:07

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.



Speaking of Tucker, Fox just settled with Dominion for over 3/4 billion dollars.

Gretchen Carlson tweeted yesterday:

"PLEASE Dominion --- Do not settle with Fox! You're about to prove something very big."

https://twitter.com/GretchenCarlson/status/1647782311469936646

I'm with her, I wish they didn't settle.

Speaking of Tucker (also the most "popular" non-russian prime time host on the russian state media):

Fox News said Monday that it was parting ways with Tucker Carlson, its most popular prime time host who was also the source of repeated controversies and headaches for the network because of his statements on everything from race relations to L.G.B.T.Q. rights.

The network made the announcement less than a week after it agreed to pay $787.5 million in a defamation lawsuit in which Mr. Carlson’s show, one of the highest rated on Fox, figured prominently for its role in spreading misinformation after the 2020 election.

In making its announcement, Fox offered a terse statement of gratitude. “Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to part ways. We thank him for his service to the network as a host and prior to that as a contributor,” it said.

His last program was on Friday, Fox said.


Wow! A lot of conservatives will be crying in their beers tonight.

Murdoch must have had very good reason for what would be a very unpopular move with his viewers.

I also see that Don Lemon has had the chop at CNN.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 24, 2023, 19:58

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.



Speaking of Tucker, Fox just settled with Dominion for over 3/4 billion dollars.

Gretchen Carlson tweeted yesterday:

"PLEASE Dominion --- Do not settle with Fox! You're about to prove something very big."

https://twitter.com/GretchenCarlson/status/1647782311469936646

I'm with her, I wish they didn't settle.

Speaking of Tucker (also the most "popular" non-russian prime time host on the russian state media):

Fox News said Monday that it was parting ways with Tucker Carlson, its most popular prime time host who was also the source of repeated controversies and headaches for the network because of his statements on everything from race relations to L.G.B.T.Q. rights.

The network made the announcement less than a week after it agreed to pay $787.5 million in a defamation lawsuit in which Mr. Carlson’s show, one of the highest rated on Fox, figured prominently for its role in spreading misinformation after the 2020 election.

In making its announcement, Fox offered a terse statement of gratitude. “Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to part ways. We thank him for his service to the network as a host and prior to that as a contributor,” it said.

His last program was on Friday, Fox said.


Wow! A lot of conservatives will be crying in their beers tonight.

Murdoch must have had very good reason for what would be a very unpopular move with his viewers.

I also see that Don Lemon has had the chop at CNN.

Dan Bongino is also out (because he "couldn't agree to the contract extension" wink, wink). So Fox just cut ties with two popular MAGA ideologues.

On the other hand, Don Lemon made an ugly comment about women "not being in their prime anymore" at 51, in reference to Nikki Haley. He even doubled down when his lady co-host called him out. Stupid and inconsiderate.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 25, 2023, 02:54

You like many other Tucker Carlson & Co followers are misunderstanding the way international trade works.



Speaking of Tucker, Fox just settled with Dominion for over 3/4 billion dollars.

Gretchen Carlson tweeted yesterday:

"PLEASE Dominion --- Do not settle with Fox! You're about to prove something very big."

https://twitter.com/GretchenCarlson/status/1647782311469936646

I'm with her, I wish they didn't settle.

Speaking of Tucker (also the most "popular" non-russian prime time host on the russian state media):

Fox News said Monday that it was parting ways with Tucker Carlson, its most popular prime time host who was also the source of repeated controversies and headaches for the network because of his statements on everything from race relations to L.G.B.T.Q. rights.

The network made the announcement less than a week after it agreed to pay $787.5 million in a defamation lawsuit in which Mr. Carlson’s show, one of the highest rated on Fox, figured prominently for its role in spreading misinformation after the 2020 election.

In making its announcement, Fox offered a terse statement of gratitude. “Fox News Media and Tucker Carlson have agreed to part ways. We thank him for his service to the network as a host and prior to that as a contributor,” it said.

His last program was on Friday, Fox said.


Wow! A lot of conservatives will be crying in their beers tonight.

Murdoch must have had very good reason for what would be a very unpopular move with his viewers.

I also see that Don Lemon has had the chop at CNN.

Dan Bongino is also out (because he "couldn't agree to the contract extension" wink, wink). So Fox just cut ties with two popular MAGA ideologues.

On the other hand, Don Lemon made an ugly comment about women "not being in their prime anymore" at 51, in reference to Nikki Haley. He even doubled down when his lady co-host called him out. Stupid and inconsiderate.

Re: TC - I think there was a number of things looming for him that may have led to his demise. A court case against him from a former female producer for operating a toxic anti-semitic, misogynistic work environment, the next Fox defamation case with Smartmatic, and apparently his text/s criticizing Fox News bosses themselves.  On top of all of this, although he had the top rating show on Fox News, a lot of the big brand premium advertisers would not advertise on his show due to all his fear-mongering conspiracy theories, and his show was not as profitable to Fox as it should have been. So, I guess in the end, the bottom line wins out!

Re: DL - Yes, I saw that, and I also saw the day after when he tweeted his 'apology' (the apology you're making when you're not really making an apology), he received a record 20k+ comments, a large part from very, very unhappy women. He was taken off air for a week, given some special 'training' or whatever, with a warning. But I think the final straw was late last week when he had another outburst session on air with a guest. Yes, he was another one who thought he was a bit too big for his boots.

DL, I believe, was always on the 'watch list' after CNN new owner (a republican Trump supporter, they say) took over last year and he wanted less left-wing bias on CNN, insisting on more republican representation with commentors on their show. I actually don't mind the new format - at least we're getting a broader picture of what's really going on with USA news.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2023, 03:53
Annie, do I understand correctly that Fox is exclusively a pro-Trump channel? And that Fox is promoting Russian propaganda?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 25, 2023, 04:15
Annie, do I understand correctly that Fox is exclusively a pro-Trump channel? And that Fox is promoting Russian propaganda?

Not necessarily pro-trump per se, Stoker. But rather anti-democrat (anti-Biden, anti-Clinton, anti-Obama). From my own personal observations, whenever there is a major USA news event, (compared to all the other news outlets - BBC, CNN international, etc, etc), Fox News nearly always seem to put an anti-democrat spin on it.  Very biased and not real news reporting or journalism, imho.

There were also a lot of anti-Ukraine and pro-Russian commentary on there - mainly from Tucker Carlson.

That's just my own observations. Others here may have more to say about this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Diana Herrmann on April 25, 2023, 10:51
"In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."

—Theodore Dalrymple

This goes for the US culture wars, racial division, age divides, and political extremes. Those who only watch Fox and the others who only believe NPR are destined to become single minded with dehumanized closed minded values. Easy to control by the ones in power of their group.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: pancaketom on April 25, 2023, 11:39
"In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."

—Theodore Dalrymple

This goes for the US culture wars, racial division, age divides, and political extremes. Those who only watch Fox and the others who only believe NPR are destined to become single minded with dehumanized closed minded values. Easy to control by the ones in power of their group.

I would say equating Fox and NPR would be one of these lies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 25, 2023, 12:28
"In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."

—Theodore Dalrymple

This goes for the US culture wars, racial division, age divides, and political extremes. Those who only watch Fox and the others who only believe NPR are destined to become single minded with dehumanized closed minded values. Easy to control by the ones in power of their group.

I would say equating Fox and NPR would be one of these lies.

You mean the left wing, government supported TV and radio channels, compared to a private business, that's terribly biased to the right, is unfair? To whom? Fox?  :)

I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 25, 2023, 12:48
"In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."

—Theodore Dalrymple

This goes for the US culture wars, racial division, age divides, and political extremes. Those who only watch Fox and the others who only believe NPR are destined to become single minded with dehumanized closed minded values. Easy to control by the ones in power of their group.

The author missed a large enough category who believed those lies from the bottom of their heart, a category who never felt humiliated, but proud of those lies.

He also missed a majority, who played the game, without feeling humiliated. Being asked to repeat those lies (they didn't believe in, and joked about in private), was considered something like being forced to get a driving license, if you want to drive. No big deal.

The group he is refering at is a very small minority of heroic freethinkers, who refused to play the game, and fought against those lies at all costs. They were the target of humiliation, being demoted, blackmailed, imprisioned, locked in mental institutions, etc.... or even eliminated.

Or exactly what's happening in putin's russia, today.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 25, 2023, 13:04
“If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking” (George S. Patton)

And John F. Kennedy repeated it later (for you democrats) :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on April 25, 2023, 13:18
"In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."

—Theodore Dalrymple

This goes for the US culture wars, racial division, age divides, and political extremes. Those who only watch Fox and the others who only believe NPR are destined to become single minded with dehumanized closed minded values. Easy to control by the ones in power of their group.

I would say equating Fox and NPR would be one of these lies.

You mean the left wing, government supported TV and radio channels, compared to a private business, that's terribly biased to the right, is unfair? To whom? Fox?  :)

I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.

When it comes to media, there are two important factors to take into account. One is factual reporting. Second one is their bias.
A news outlet can rate high on factual reporting, which is good of course, but they can still decide on only running stories that fit a biased narrative.

BBC for instance has a pretty high rate on factual reporting, and runs stories that fit a center to center left bias.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/
NPR is similar, high rating on factual reporting, and leaning to center left bias: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/

Fox on the other hand leans towards extreme right reporting with mixed factual reporting: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news-bias/
CNN is not doing much better: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/cnn-bias/


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 25, 2023, 13:37
"In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control."

—Theodore Dalrymple

This goes for the US culture wars, racial division, age divides, and political extremes. Those who only watch Fox and the others who only believe NPR are destined to become single minded with dehumanized closed minded values. Easy to control by the ones in power of their group.

I would say equating Fox and NPR would be one of these lies.

You mean the left wing, government supported TV and radio channels, compared to a private business, that's terribly biased to the right, is unfair? To whom? Fox?  :)

I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.

When it comes to media, there are two important factors to take into account. One is factual reporting. Second one is their bias.
A news outlet can rate high on factual reporting, which is good of course, but they can still decide on only running stories that fit a biased narrative.

BBC for instance has a pretty high rate on factual reporting, and runs stories that fit a center to center left bias.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/)
NPR is similar, high rating on factual reporting, and leaning to center left bias: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/)

Fox on the other hand leans towards extreme right reporting with mixed factual reporting: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news-bias/ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fox-news-bias/)
CNN is not doing much better: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/cnn-bias/ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/left/cnn-bias/)




Framing, lying. Left media are not shy either:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4R_p-qG0wQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4R_p-qG0wQ)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9467611/CNN-technical-director-makes-embarrassing-admission-getting-catfished-Tinder.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9467611/CNN-technical-director-makes-embarrassing-admission-getting-catfished-Tinder.html)
https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/jdP8TiKY8dE?feature=oembed (https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/jdP8TiKY8dE?feature=oembed)

Is CNN then extreme left when Fox is extreme right?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 25, 2023, 13:59


I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.

At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.

There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.



...

Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.

.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 25, 2023, 15:15


I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.

At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.

There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.



...

Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.

.


I also think contributors here are pretty left biased :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 25, 2023, 15:29

I also think contributors here are pretty left biased :)

This is pretty much how a balanced opinion may appear to the extreme right
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on April 25, 2023, 15:39


I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.

At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.

There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.



...

Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.

.


I also think contributors here are pretty left biased :)

The more you lean to the right, the more is left of you.
Up until a point where someone on the far-right side of the spectrum perceives center right or just right wing as left.

What I see is quite some rather centrist and nuanced people trying to talk some sense into the more extremes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 25, 2023, 16:25


I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.

At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.

There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.



...

Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.

.


I also think contributors here are pretty left biased :)

The more you lean to the right, the more is left of you.
Up until a point where someone on the far-right side of the spectrum perceives center right or just right wing as left.

What I see is quite some rather centrist and nuanced people trying to talk some sense into the more extremes.
That goes both ways I'm afraid. But thanks for the links that actually show most news broadcasters are biased on the left, including the BBC of which we all knew already. But, you are left then, right? :)
What do you think of Biden running again for presidency? I would pick someone else if you don't want the orange guy to take control. That is, if you are from the states of course.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 25, 2023, 16:44

I also think contributors here are pretty left biased :)

This is pretty much how a balanced opinion may appear to the extreme right
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)
Yes, but a lot of you think alike here on each subject, no matter what the subject is. It's almost scary. You just repeat what is fed to you by your preferred media. It doesn't seem you have an opinion of your own at all. I can't hardly detect any deviation of the general thinking or a personal note in all of your opinions. It's a pity actually. It seems you are brainwashed entirely.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 25, 2023, 16:50

I also think contributors here are pretty left biased :)

This is pretty much how a balanced opinion may appear to the extreme right
(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)
Yes, but a lot of you think alike here on each subject, no matter what the subject is. It's almost scary. You just repeat what is fed to you by your preferred media. It doesn't seem you have an opinion of your own at all. I can't hardly detect any deviation of the general thinking or a personal note in all of your opinions. It's a pity actually. It seems you are brainwashed entirely.

There are differences you fail to notice because you are too far to the right and the details to your left become blurry.
Probably you see even libertarian positions as leftist.

While a large majority agree that russia's invasion of a soverign country is an abomination, or that Fox and Tucker paid a hefty price for spreading lies (as they recognised even themselves), there were many dissagrements, only a few pages above, about nuclear energy, Merkel's role, whiskey preferences, etc...  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 25, 2023, 17:13


I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.

At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.

There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.



...

Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.

.


I also think contributors here are pretty left biased :)

What?? ??? lol

I can't believe that was your response to me after what I just wrote. (This is where I need Zero's ROFL emoji. lol)

Let me spell it out to you more clearly: I DON'T CARE.

Or more importantly, that in reality there are no left or right sides. And that those who cling to them are just being manipulated by self-interested leaders, political funding (big oil, big coal, big mining, big guns, etc) - and of course Putin trying to drive a huge wedge through American and world democracies.

The truth lies on both sides, or rather, no sides at all.

...

Well said, Zero and Roscoe, above - re the more right you are, the more everything else seems left.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 25, 2023, 18:28


https://youtu.be/elw0I9CIIPo
 (https://youtu.be/elw0I9CIIPo)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on April 25, 2023, 20:49
I'm glad that this thread has finally settled some different opinions, once and for all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 26, 2023, 01:22
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on April 26, 2023, 02:54


I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.

At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.

There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.



...

Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.

.


I also think contributors here are pretty left biased :)

The more you lean to the right, the more is left of you.
Up until a point where someone on the far-right side of the spectrum perceives center right or just right wing as left.

What I see is quite some rather centrist and nuanced people trying to talk some sense into the more extremes.
That goes both ways I'm afraid. But thanks for the links that actually show most news broadcasters are biased on the left, including the BBC of which we all knew already. But, you are left then, right? :)
What do you think of Biden running again for presidency? I would pick someone else if you don't want the orange guy to take control. That is, if you are from the states of course.

It all depends on the region and how you look at it.

Most popular cable news broadcaster in the US is actually Fox News, leading by a large margin. https://www.statista.com/statistics/373814/cable-news-network-viewership-usa/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/373814/cable-news-network-viewership-usa/) (figures 2023)
Add up MSNBC and CNN, which are left biased broadcasters, and Fox still wins.
All three of them are very outspoken on their bias, and none of them rate well on factual reporting.

Most popular news broadcasters in the UK are BBC, ITV and Channel 4. https://www.statista.com/statistics/269983/leading-tv-broadcasters-in-the-uk-by-audience-share/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/269983/leading-tv-broadcasters-in-the-uk-by-audience-share/) (figures 2020)
All three of them are center left/right biased, with ITV leaning slightly to the right, BBC slightly to the left and Channel 4 to center left
All three of them rate high on factual reporting.

And for the record. BBC is not left. It's center-left and yes that's still a difference.

Nuances. Surprised. Aren't you? :)

You seem to like being vocal on strong, controversial and polarized opinions. Don't act surprised if most people don't agree with you and call you out on what you are saying.
That doesn't make them lefties, it means that they are more nuanced and probably also more factual than you.

And I'm in Annies tribe (pun intended Annie, thanks for de link): I generally don't care about people's political preferences.
I'm mainly here to read and every now and then join a discussion about stock photography.

But when it comes to politics, I don't like the binary left-right divisions. It's way more than that, and all of it is a spectrum.
Most people tend to hold positions on both sides of the spectrum, and their position depends on the topic.
But if I really have to choose, I will always go for the lesser extreme because I believe that extreme leadership, left or right, isn't any good for a society.
So yeah, if you really push me into making a choice: the sleepy one please. Not because he's a democrat, but because he's less extreme than the orange one.
And no, I'm not from the US, so glad I don't have to make that choice.











Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 26, 2023, 04:36
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.

Yes, that's how it was when I studied politics, Wilm**. Socialism on the left capitalism on the right, extreme left was communism and extreme right was fascism, but then one day I realized that the whole thing wasn't linear at all. It was a circle - because both extreme doctrines require totalitarian government to enforce it, and then everyone loses their freedom.


** From a very early age I was very interested in politics, and later took extra electives in political studies within my university degree. I thought about joining local government or something at first and then maybe move on up. But then I got involved with a guy who was running for a state government seat. And OMG - did that turn me off politics. The way the whole system - the internal party factions in-fighting, the pressure from the guys at the top to conform, the external pressure groups - just bears down on the candidates. And how incredibly difficult it was for someone not to lose their own personal integrity when running for government. I left and never joined a political party again.

I have always believed that each one of us can make a difference even in a small way, but politics is not the answer. You have to step outside and stay independent. This left/right stuff is a load of BS, imho.

...

Roscoe - very, very well said. I really enjoy all your contributions. Please stick around more! And yes, we can start our own tribe. lol!


...

SpaceStockFootage - lol!


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2023, 05:03
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Who is Putin? This is a bloody dictator, a native of the KGB, read the NKVD. These structures were no different from the Gestapo. The Gestapo even learned all the atrocities from them before the war. Putin is not capable of creating anything but Nazism, chauvinism and fascism. Yes, he is trying to create a fascist and terrorist empire. Is it "left" or "right" ?
Also, do not forget that China, which is at the head of the anti-democratic coalition, can also command Putin. This coalition includes Russia, Iran, China, North Korea, Belarus. These are active members.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2023, 05:10
I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.
At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.
There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.
...
Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.
.
Which NBC News channel? Is it "left" or "right" ?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2023, 05:12
Now there is a 3rd world war, it has already begun a year ago (more precisely, it began in 2014, but they will write about it later in textbooks). And all democratic countries need to unite and expel people who support Russian propaganda, as well as people who are trying to split the democratic camp.
And it doesn’t matter who you are, left or right, the main thing is that in the war you don’t work for the enemy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2023, 05:23
And at the expense of the same Putin. Is he really alive now? The fact that power in Russia is in the hands of the KGB (FSB) is well known. But whether Putin is alive is a big question. The person whom the media shows us is his doubles (copies), he has a lot of them. Some people are studying this issue, and so, in their opinion, the real Putin has not been shown even on TV since 2007. So who then controls the Russian empire, if the king is not real?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 26, 2023, 06:10
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
You are trying to define fascism, Wilm.
Thr only difference between the communism and fascism, is that the fascist government is tolerating the private property, as long as the owner is obeying the dear leader.
We can even say that fascists are a bit smarter, since they don't have to get involved in the mundane day to day management of companies, to obtain what they need.

Instead of ussr today's russia should rather call itself uFsr.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2023, 06:34
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
You are trying to define fascism, Wilm.
Thr only difference between the communism and fascism, is that the fascist government is tolerating the private property, as long as the owner is obeying the dear leader.
We can even say that fascists are a bit smarter, since they don't have to get involved in the mundane day to day management of the companies, to obtain what they need.

Instead of USSR today's russia should.rather call itself UFSR.
In China, communism and there is also private property.
I don't see any difference at all between fascism and communism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 26, 2023, 06:40
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
You are trying to define fascism, Wilm.
Thr only difference between the communism and fascism, is that the fascist government is tolerating the private property, as long as the owner is obeying the dear leader.
We can even say that fascists are a bit smarter, since they don't have to get involved in the mundane day to day management of the companies, to obtain what they need.

Instead of USSR today's russia should.rather call itself UFSR.
In China, communism and there is also private property.
I don't see any difference at all between fascism and communism.
That's because today's China is communist only in name. They also got smarter and switched to fascism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2023, 06:43
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 26, 2023, 06:46
.
Yes. The only missing ingredient is an explicit international aggression. But that's being planned as we speak.
And that's not always a necessary condition.
They check the rest of the criteria:

- Authoritarian leader
- Supression of the opposition
- Submission of the ecomomy to the will of the government.
- Submission of the justice system to the will of the government.
- Suppresion of the free press and free speech
- Aggresive nationalist and cult of personality propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2023, 07:46
.
Yes. The only missing ingredient is an explicit international aggression. But that's being planned as we speak.
And that's not always a necessary condition.
They check the rest of the criteria:

- Authoritarian leader
- Supression of the oposition
- Submission of the ecomomy to the will of the government.
- Submission of the justice system to the will of the government.
- Suppresion of the free press and free speech
- Aggresive nationalist and cult of personality propaganda.
+100
I completely agree.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 26, 2023, 09:28
Nuances. Surprised. Aren't you? :)


Speaking about "nuances". Take this:

(https://i.redd.it/0dnud7gl5es41.png)
 ;D

Basically, besides the traditional linear position on private property (left-right), we need one more dimension to define the type of government i.e authoritarian vs libertarian.
But I must admit that while conceptually a two dimension matrix is how we should look at the political spectrum, the nuances in the above matrix are going a "bit" too far for me.

Maybe one day, I will check what Posadism and Soulism are about  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on April 26, 2023, 09:57
Nuances. Surprised. Aren't you? :)


Speaking about "nuances". Take this:

(https://i.redd.it/0dnud7gl5es41.png)
 ;D

Basically, besides the traditional linear position on private property (left-right), we need one more dimension to define the type of government i.e authoritarian vs libertarian.
But I must admit that while conceptually a two dimension matrix is how we should look at the political spectrum, the nuances in the above matrix are going a "bit" too far for me.

Maybe one day, I will check what Posadism and Soulism are about  ;D

Great. Now, where's Annies tribe?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 26, 2023, 10:12
Great. Now, where's Annies tribe?

I am trying to figure it out. I just checked and I can say that it's not "soulism":

Soulism, formerly known as Ego-Communalism, is an off-the-compass, libertarian-left ideology that believes that an individual should be able to do anything they desire, resulting in everyone sharing all their property (both private and personal) with everybody else because it is in everybody's best interest to share

(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 26, 2023, 10:55

https://youtu.be/elw0I9CIIPo
 (https://youtu.be/elw0I9CIIPo)

Great psychology opinion.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 26, 2023, 14:26
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 26, 2023, 17:20
Great. Now, where's Annies tribe?

I am trying to figure it out. I just checked and I can say that it's not "soulism":

Soulism, formerly known as Ego-Communalism, is an off-the-compass, libertarian-left ideology that believes that an individual should be able to do anything they desire, resulting in everyone sharing all their property (both private and personal) with everybody else because it is in everybody's best interest to share

(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)

ROFL (where did you get your emoji from? I want one)

I've just woken up - still half asleep. we'll get to that later.

Nice chart, Zero
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 26, 2023, 17:22

https://youtu.be/elw0I9CIIPo
 (https://youtu.be/elw0I9CIIPo)

Great psychology opinion.

That's part of that 6 part doco series produced by Stephen Spielberg that I mentioned much earlier on this thread. I'll see if I can find more.

Here's the interview with Spielberg and co:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob-ViQna6IE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob-ViQna6IE)


and more about the series:

https://www.yidio.com/show/why-we-hate? (https://www.yidio.com/show/why-we-hate?)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 26, 2023, 17:24
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)

OMG - please don't tell me you're a QAnoner? Because that's the rubbish that they bandy about.

Please, please read up on the history of something before you make crazy assumptions like that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 26, 2023, 17:43
Great. Now, where's Annies tribe?

I am trying to figure it out. I just checked and I can say that it's not "soulism":

Soulism, formerly known as Ego-Communalism, is an off-the-compass, libertarian-left ideology that believes that an individual should be able to do anything they desire, resulting in everyone sharing all their property (both private and personal) with everybody else because it is in everybody's best interest to share

(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)

ROFL (where did you get your emoji from? I want one)

I've just woken up - still half asleep. we'll get to that later.

Nice chart, Zero
It's not "my" emoji. It's a gif I stole from one of Pete's posts.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 26, 2023, 17:47
Great. Now, where's Annies tribe?

I am trying to figure it out. I just checked and I can say that it's not "soulism":

Soulism, formerly known as Ego-Communalism, is an off-the-compass, libertarian-left ideology that believes that an individual should be able to do anything they desire, resulting in everyone sharing all their property (both private and personal) with everybody else because it is in everybody's best interest to share

(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)

ROFL (where did you get your emoji from? I want one)

I've just woken up - still half asleep. we'll get to that later.

Nice chart, Zero
It's not "my" emoji. It's a gif I stole from one of Pete's posts.  ;)


Oh, I can do that. lol

(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 27, 2023, 01:19
I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.
At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.
There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.
...
Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.
.
Which NBC News channel? Is it "left" or "right" ?

I'm sorry Stoker. I forgot to answer this.

The BBC is British. From Wiki:

"The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) is the national broadcaster of the United Kingdom, based at Broadcasting House in London, England. It is the world's oldest national broadcaster, and the largest broadcaster in the world by number of employees, employing over 21,000 staff in total, of whom approximately 17,900 are in public-sector broadcasting.

The BBC is established under a royal charter and operates under its agreement with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport."


From Roscoe's links above:

"BBC for instance has a pretty high rate on factual reporting, and runs stories that fit a center to center left bias.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/"


From that link: "Overall, we rate the BBC Left-Center biased based on story selection that slightly favors the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing of information. Although they have failed a fact-check, they appropriately issued a correction."

and

"According to New Statesman’s research, examining the impartiality of the BBC’s reporting shows that they lean right in certain areas, such as business, immigration, and religion."

and

"When reporting general news, the BBC always sources its information and uses minimal loaded words in headlines"



Reading some of those media bias fact check links, I am guessing that many news outlets possibly could have received a 'left' bias for being critical of trump. For example, from the BBC link above: "When it comes to reporting on the USA and, in particular, former President Donald Trump, there is a negative tone directed at Trump and his policies."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2023, 04:42
I used to watch BBC news late at night for a more balanced view of what was going on in the world. I don't know if it's still like that? US media has become polarized and nothing is without bias or manipulation.
At least with the BBC, you don't get caught up with all the American political biases. Left. Right, Left Right. Left Right. As non-Americans, we are getting so sick of it.
There are so many big global issues at the moment that shouldn't fall into either of those categories, especially in order to be resolved.
...
Thanks Roscoe for some very good links.
.
Which NBC News channel? Is it "left" or "right" ?

I'm sorry Stoker. I forgot to answer this.

The BBC is British. From Wiki:

"The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) is the national broadcaster of the United Kingdom, based at Broadcasting House in London, England. It is the world's oldest national broadcaster, and the largest broadcaster in the world by number of employees, employing over 21,000 staff in total, of whom approximately 17,900 are in public-sector broadcasting.

The BBC is established under a royal charter and operates under its agreement with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport."


From Roscoe's links above:

"BBC for instance has a pretty high rate on factual reporting, and runs stories that fit a center to center left bias.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/ (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/)"


From that link: "Overall, we rate the BBC Left-Center biased based on story selection that slightly favors the left. We also rate them High for factual reporting due to proper sourcing of information. Although they have failed a fact-check, they appropriately issued a correction."

and

"According to New Statesman’s research, examining the impartiality of the BBC’s reporting shows that they lean right in certain areas, such as business, immigration, and religion."

and

"When reporting general news, the BBC always sources its information and uses minimal loaded words in headlines"



Reading some of those media bias fact check links, I am guessing that many news outlets possibly could have received a 'left' bias for being critical of trump. For example, from the BBC link above: "When it comes to reporting on the USA and, in particular, former President Donald Trump, there is a negative tone directed at Trump and his policies."
I asked about the American channel NBC News. I didn't ask about the BBC.
Here is a link to that channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@NBCNews/videos (https://www.youtube.com/@NBCNews/videos)
You don't watch it?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2023, 04:44
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)

OMG - please don't tell me you're a QAnoner? Because that's the rubbish that they bandy about.

Please, please read up on the history of something before you make crazy assumptions like that.
The USSR worked closely with and assisted the National Socialist German Workers' Party until World War II. Helped everyone. Communism and fascism are one and the same.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 27, 2023, 05:16

I asked about the American channel NBC News.
You don't watch it?

No, I live in Australia, and NBC is geo-restricted and I dont use VPN.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2023, 05:21

I asked about the American channel NBC News.
You don't watch it?

No, I live in Australia, and NBC is geo-restricted and I dont use VPN.
You can’t go to YouTube at the address I gave? Is that possible?
I thought you live in the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 27, 2023, 05:30

I asked about the American channel NBC News.
You don't watch it?

No, I live in Australia, and NBC is geo-restricted and I dont use VPN.
You can’t go to YouTube at the address I gave? Is that possible?
I thought you live in the USA.

No, I'm Australian. I'm in the middle of something (its 8pm dinner time here) and dont have time to view links, and as I know NBC, I thought I would just post a quick reply.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 27, 2023, 05:40
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)

OMG - please don't tell me you're a QAnoner? Because that's the rubbish that they bandy about.

Please, please read up on the history of something before you make crazy assumptions like that.
The USSR worked closely with and assisted the National Socialist German Workers' Party until World War II. Helped everyone. Communism and fascism are one and the same.

Hitler's party was not called NDSAP, but NSDAP.
 
In German, the terms "national" and "socailist" are written together to form the term "NationalSocialism".
This term is closely related to Nazism and has nothing to do with the term socialism as it is used today.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2023, 05:41

I asked about the American channel NBC News.
You don't watch it?

No, I live in Australia, and NBC is geo-restricted and I dont use VPN.
You can’t go to YouTube at the address I gave? Is that possible?
I thought you live in the USA.

No, I'm Australian. I'm in the middle of something (its 8pm dinner time here) and dont have time to view links, and as I know NBC, I thought I would just post a quick reply.
I don't expect quick answers from you. This is a forum, not a chat. When you have time, follow this link so I know if youtube shows this channel in Australia or not.
https://www.youtube.com/@NBCNews/videos (https://www.youtube.com/@NBCNews/videos)

Well, the question still stands, is the @NBCNews channel "left" or "right".  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2023, 05:47
Hitler's party was not called NDSAP, but NSDAP.
In German, the terms "national" and "socailist" are written together to form the term "NationalSocialism".
This term is closely related to Nazism and has nothing to do with the term socialism as it is used today.
ok.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 27, 2023, 06:20

I asked about the American channel NBC News.
You don't watch it?

No, I live in Australia, and NBC is geo-restricted and I dont use VPN.
You can’t go to YouTube at the address I gave? Is that possible?
I thought you live in the USA.

No, I'm Australian. I'm in the middle of something (its 8pm dinner time here) and dont have time to view links, and as I know NBC, I thought I would just post a quick reply.
I don't expect quick answers from you. This is a forum, not a chat. When you have time, follow this link so I know if youtube shows this channel in Australia or not.
https://www.youtube.com/@NBCNews/videos (https://www.youtube.com/@NBCNews/videos)

Well, the question still stands, is the @NBCNews channel "left" or "right".  :)


I honestly don't understand the point of your question here.
The terms right and left are completely meaningless in themselves. If I criticize migration policy in Germany, I am politically on the right here. If I'm against nuclear power plants at the same time, I'm politically on the left.   
Yes, and now? 
It's the extremes that are interesting, and these terms don't help.
Putin supporters here in Germany, for example, come from both extreme right-wing and left-wing political camps.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2023, 06:32
RalfLiebhold, Everything is very simple. The @NBCNews channel is the only channel I watch in the US. I don't live in the USA. Annie has written extensively about the different channels and their political focus. And I just wondered which wing the @NBCNews channel belongs to. :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 27, 2023, 08:38
RalfLiebhold, Everything is very simple. The @NBCNews channel is the only channel I watch in the US. I don't live in the USA. Annie has written extensively about the different channels and their political focus. And I just wondered which wing the @NBCNews channel belongs to. :)

NBC is at the left of Fox News, which is at the left of Newsmax and OANN.
So based on American standards NBC is leaning left, but they are at the right of CNN, which is at the right of MSNBC.

Anyway, the American "left" is at the right of the European "center".
Liberals are perceived as center-right in Europe, but as left in the US.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 27, 2023, 10:53
Great. Now, where's Annies tribe?

I am trying to figure it out. I just checked and I can say that it's not "soulism":

Soulism, formerly known as Ego-Communalism, is an off-the-compass, libertarian-left ideology that believes that an individual should be able to do anything they desire, resulting in everyone sharing all their property (both private and personal) with everybody else because it is in everybody's best interest to share

(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif)

ROFL (where did you get your emoji from? I want one)

I've just woken up - still half asleep. we'll get to that later.

Nice chart, Zero
It's not "my" emoji. It's a gif I stole from one of Pete's posts.  ;)

Yes, right click and copy the link. It's hosted free on postimg.org like pretty much everything I drop into posts.

(https://i.postimg.cc/fR639DYb/bartcrap.gif)
RalfLiebhold, Everything is very simple. The @NBCNews channel is the only channel I watch in the US. I don't live in the USA. Annie has written extensively about the different channels and their political focus. And I just wondered which wing the @NBCNews channel belongs to. :)

NBC is at the left of Fox News, which is at the left of Newsmax and OAN.
So based on American standards NBC is leaning left, but they are at the right of CNN, which is at the right of MSNBC.

Anyway, the American "left" is at the right of the European "center".
Liberals are perceived as center-right in Europe, but as left in the US.  ;D


That always confused me as there's some kind of conservative and liberal variation from the US to the UK as well.

"Well, the one on the right was on the left
And the one in the middle was on the right
And the one on the left was in the middle
And the guy in the rear was a Methodist"

https://www.bing.com/search?q=song+lyrics%2C+the+one+on+the+left+is...&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&ghc=1&lq=0&pq=song+lyrics%2C+the+one+on+the+left+is...&sc=10-38&sk=&cvid=5C27195A28474F22883DE1BB9B71F329&ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl= (https://www.bing.com/search?q=song+lyrics%2C+the+one+on+the+left+is...&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&ghc=1&lq=0&pq=song+lyrics%2C+the+one+on+the+left+is...&sc=10-38&sk=&cvid=5C27195A28474F22883DE1BB9B71F329&ghsh=0&ghacc=0&ghpl=)

Johnny Cash? I had forgotten that.

"Don't go mixin' politics
With the folk songs of our land
Just work on harmony and diction
Play your banjo well
And if you have political convictions
Keep 'em to yourself"

I wish more musicians would do that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 27, 2023, 14:03
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)

OMG - please don't tell me you're a QAnoner? Because that's the rubbish that they bandy about.

Please, please read up on the history of something before you make crazy assumptions like that.
The USSR worked closely with and assisted the National Socialist German Workers' Party until World War II. Helped everyone. Communism and fascism are one and the same.

Hitler's party was not called NDSAP, but NSDAP.
 
In German, the terms "national" and "socailist" are written together to form the term "NationalSocialism".
This term is closely related to Nazism and has nothing to do with the term socialism as it is used today.

Sorry typo with the abbreviation. But your explanation is not quite true.

The NSDAP were actually really socialists. They hated communism but also loathed capitalism. The original founders and Hitler later were for redistribution of wealth, profit sharing for employees, nationalize companies that are of interest for society as a whole, as well as other known socialist ideas that current parties still have in the political agenda. Most of it came from the so called "wrong doing" after WO I and it attracted mostly the poorer part of the society (like socialist parties attract now as well). Jews were used as a scapegoat because they would own most of the wealth according to them. So, saying that it has nothing to do with today, is not actually true. I still hear the same political stands from socialist parties today.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 27, 2023, 14:15
Annie has written extensively about the different channels and their political focus. And I just wondered which wing the @NBCNews channel belongs to. :)

No, I haven't. I think you may be confusing me with someone else. My original comments were that I don't like all this left/right focus - and that's because it's 'labelling'. I dont like labeling because it can lead to division, confusion and wrongful assumptions. Also because that's the tactics that unscrupulous groups and leaders use to divide us and hide the truth. 

My mistake was I thought that because Pete and I had made comments about BBC, you were asking who they were, and that 'NBC' was a typo. My references all come from Roscoe's links on page 9. I was interested in those media bias links, but because of what they said about factual reporting. That's what I am interested in.

Yes, I can view your Youtube NBC links. Am I interested? No - particularly if all you want to know is this left/right stuff.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 27, 2023, 14:20

I still hear the same political stands from socialist parties today.

Sorry, but that's all really too weird for me. And you even didn´t read my text.

I recommend a hearing aid.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 27, 2023, 14:21
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)

OMG - please don't tell me you're a QAnoner? Because that's the rubbish that they bandy about.

Please, please read up on the history of something before you make crazy assumptions like that.
The USSR worked closely with and assisted the National Socialist German Workers' Party until World War II. Helped everyone. Communism and fascism are one and the same.

Hitler's party was not called NDSAP, but NSDAP.
 
In German, the terms "national" and "socailist" are written together to form the term "NationalSocialism".
This term is closely related to Nazism and has nothing to do with the term socialism as it is used today.

Sorry typo with the abbreviation. But your explanation is not quite true.

The NSDAP were actually really socialists. They hated communism but also loathed capitalism. The original founders and Hitler later were for redistribution of wealth, profit sharing for employees, nationalize companies that are of interest for society as a whole, as well as other known socialist ideas that current parties still have in the political agenda. Most of it came from the so called "wrong doing" after WO I and it attracted mostly the poorer part of the society (like socialist parties attract now as well). Jews were used as a scapegoat because they would own most of the wealth according to them. So, saying that it has nothing to do with today, is not actually true. I still hear the same political stands from socialist parties today.

No, they were not socialists. You are confusing populism with socialism.
NSDAP promoted the "völkisch nationalism" ideology, which is actually national-populism, in other words an ideology close to what we see behind Trump's MAGA movement (or Orban's Fidesz in Hungary).


Btw, there are virtually no socialists in the US, today. We only have a handful of democrat-socialists e.g. Bernie Sanders (independent) or AOC (at the left end of the democratic party)


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 27, 2023, 15:08

I still hear the same political stands from socialist parties today.

Sorry, but that's all really too weird for me. And you even didn´t read my text.

I recommend a hearing aid.

No Ralf, you explicitly said that their ideas have nothing to do with socialist parties today.
I quote, again "In German, the terms "national" and "socailist" are written together to form the term "NationalSocialism".
This term is closely related to Nazism and has nothing to do with the term socialism as it is used today.".

Yes, obviously nobody is going to use National socialism today (together) anymore but socialists they were for sure. But you imply that it has nothing to do with socialism as being used today. And that is not true. That was my point. Because they didn't differ that much on the points I made.

Edit: See, you made a typo also, spelling socialist as "socailist" :). But even nowadays it's the socialist parties in Europe demonstrating against Israel. So even the hatred against Jews is maybe still alive in the current socialism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 27, 2023, 15:10
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)

OMG - please don't tell me you're a QAnoner? Because that's the rubbish that they bandy about.

Please, please read up on the history of something before you make crazy assumptions like that.
The USSR worked closely with and assisted the National Socialist German Workers' Party until World War II. Helped everyone. Communism and fascism are one and the same.

Hitler's party was not called NDSAP, but NSDAP.
 
In German, the terms "national" and "socailist" are written together to form the term "NationalSocialism".
This term is closely related to Nazism and has nothing to do with the term socialism as it is used today.

Sorry typo with the abbreviation. But your explanation is not quite true.

The NSDAP were actually really socialists. They hated communism but also loathed capitalism. The original founders and Hitler later were for redistribution of wealth, profit sharing for employees, nationalize companies that are of interest for society as a whole, as well as other known socialist ideas that current parties still have in the political agenda. Most of it came from the so called "wrong doing" after WO I and it attracted mostly the poorer part of the society (like socialist parties attract now as well). Jews were used as a scapegoat because they would own most of the wealth according to them. So, saying that it has nothing to do with today, is not actually true. I still hear the same political stands from socialist parties today.

No, they were not socialists. You are confusing populism with socialism.
NSDAP promoted the "völkisch nationalism" ideology, which is actually national-populism, in other words an ideology close to what we see behind Trump's MAGA movement (or Orban's Fidesz in Hungary).


Btw, there are virtually no socialists in the US, today. We only have a handful of democrat-socialists e.g. Bernie Sanders (independent) or AOC (at the left end of the democratic party)



Read your history I would say. They for sure were socialists as mentioned to Ralf already. I was not speaking about the states. I know, in the states, they are all far right (except a few) :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 27, 2023, 15:19
Read your history I would say. They for sure were socialists as mentioned to Ralf already. I was not speaking about the states. I know, in the states, they are all far right (except a few) :)

Read.
The name they gave themselves doesn't reflect their ideology, the same way Trump's MAGA doesn't reflect the conservative/republican ideology anymore.
Actually they are calling the real conservatives RINOs (= Republicans In Name Only), when it's rather the other way around.

"The renaming of the German Worker's Party (DAP) to the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP) was partially driven by a desire to draw upon both left-wing and right-wing ideals, with "Socialist" and "Workers'" appealing to the left, and "National" and "German" appealing to the right"

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 27, 2023, 15:28
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)

OMG - please don't tell me you're a QAnoner? Because that's the rubbish that they bandy about.

Please, please read up on the history of something before you make crazy assumptions like that.
The USSR worked closely with and assisted the National Socialist German Workers' Party until World War II. Helped everyone. Communism and fascism are one and the same.

Hitler's party was not called NDSAP, but NSDAP.
 
In German, the terms "national" and "socailist" are written together to form the term "NationalSocialism".
This term is closely related to Nazism and has nothing to do with the term socialism as it is used today.

Sorry typo with the abbreviation. But your explanation is not quite true.

The NSDAP were actually really socialists. They hated communism but also loathed capitalism. The original founders and Hitler later were for redistribution of wealth, profit sharing for employees, nationalize companies that are of interest for society as a whole, as well as other known socialist ideas that current parties still have in the political agenda. Most of it came from the so called "wrong doing" after WO I and it attracted mostly the poorer part of the society (like socialist parties attract now as well). Jews were used as a scapegoat because they would own most of the wealth according to them. So, saying that it has nothing to do with today, is not actually true. I still hear the same political stands from socialist parties today.

No, they were not socialists. You are confusing populism with socialism.
NSDAP promoted the "völkisch nationalism" ideology, which is actually national-populism, in other words an ideology close to what we see behind Trump's MAGA movement (or Orban's Fidesz in Hungary).


Btw, there are virtually no socialists in the US, today. We only have a handful of democrat-socialists e.g. Bernie Sanders (independent) or AOC (at the left end of the democratic party)



Read your history I would say. They for sure were socialists as mentioned to Ralf already. I was not speaking about the states. I know, in the states, they are all far right (except a few) :)

No they were not. They were fascists.  To understand the difference, you need to understand the style of government involved in both. This is probably as good an explanation as any.

Difference Between Socialism and Fascism in Points
1. Socialism is a system of governance that thinks the state should have control over the country's power and riches. Fascism, on the other hand, is a system of governance that believes that power should be concentrated in the hands of a single dictator.
2. Socialism emphasizes socioeconomic equality, whereas fascism emphasizes nationalism and the dissemination of "better ideology" throughout the world.
3. Fascism tends to stifle the people of their country in a variety of ways, including denying them the right to free speech and assembly. All of these laws, however, do not apply to socialism.


https://www.diffzy.com/article/difference-between-socialism-and-fascism-559#:~:text=The%20major%20distinction%20between%20socialism%20and%20fascism%20is,is%20one%20of%20the%20several%20kinds%20of%20governance. (https://www.diffzy.com/article/difference-between-socialism-and-fascism-559#:~:text=The%20major%20distinction%20between%20socialism%20and%20fascism%20is,is%20one%20of%20the%20several%20kinds%20of%20governance.)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 27, 2023, 15:31
Read your history I would say. They for sure were socialists as mentioned to Ralf already. I was not speaking about the states. I know, in the states, they are all far right (except a few) :)

Read.
The name they gave themselves doesn't reflect their ideology, the same way Trump's MAGA doesn't reflect the conservative/republican ideology anymore.
Actually they are calling the real conservatives RINOs (= Republicans In Name Only), when it's rather the other way around.

"The renaming of the German Worker's Party (DAP) to the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP) was partially driven by a desire to draw upon both left-wing and right-wing ideals, with "Socialist" and "Workers'" appealing to the left, and "National" and "German" appealing to the right"


No it isn't it. Hitler came to spy on them but liked their beliefs and joined them. Only to put National later to this socialist party. You do your reading, I would say. Where do you get your information from?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 27, 2023, 15:35
There used to be a definition that socialist politics should be classified on the left.
Now that Putin has apparently decided to make Russia a USSR again (the first S stands for socialist), one should ask whether this is still "left“. Socialism saw itself as the antithesis of capitalism. As it stands, however, it is currently a special kind of capitalism in which a handful of government officials and oligarchs are swimming in vast sums of money. Just a thought.
Do remember that Hitlers party was called NDSAP. National Socialist German Workers’ Party. So I would not trust any party that calls themselves socialist :)

OMG - please don't tell me you're a QAnoner? Because that's the rubbish that they bandy about.

Please, please read up on the history of something before you make crazy assumptions like that.
The USSR worked closely with and assisted the National Socialist German Workers' Party until World War II. Helped everyone. Communism and fascism are one and the same.

Hitler's party was not called NDSAP, but NSDAP.
 
In German, the terms "national" and "socailist" are written together to form the term "NationalSocialism".
This term is closely related to Nazism and has nothing to do with the term socialism as it is used today.

Sorry typo with the abbreviation. But your explanation is not quite true.

The NSDAP were actually really socialists. They hated communism but also loathed capitalism. The original founders and Hitler later were for redistribution of wealth, profit sharing for employees, nationalize companies that are of interest for society as a whole, as well as other known socialist ideas that current parties still have in the political agenda. Most of it came from the so called "wrong doing" after WO I and it attracted mostly the poorer part of the society (like socialist parties attract now as well). Jews were used as a scapegoat because they would own most of the wealth according to them. So, saying that it has nothing to do with today, is not actually true. I still hear the same political stands from socialist parties today.

No, they were not socialists. You are confusing populism with socialism.
NSDAP promoted the "völkisch nationalism" ideology, which is actually national-populism, in other words an ideology close to what we see behind Trump's MAGA movement (or Orban's Fidesz in Hungary).


Btw, there are virtually no socialists in the US, today. We only have a handful of democrat-socialists e.g. Bernie Sanders (independent) or AOC (at the left end of the democratic party)



Read your history I would say. They for sure were socialists as mentioned to Ralf already. I was not speaking about the states. I know, in the states, they are all far right (except a few) :)

No they were not. They were fascists.  To understand the difference, you need to understand the style of government involved in both. This is probably as good an explanation as any.

Socialism is one of the several kinds of governance. This kind of governance argues that the state should own and control a wide range of properties, including some natural resource extraction. Socialists are persons who believe in socialism. Giving the state such authority over assets, investments, and outputs, socialists think, will ensure that individuals are treated equally. However, there are a number of considerations to consider with this concept.


Fascism may be defined as a type of administration in which all of a country's authority is concentrated in the hands of a single dictator. It began in Italy in the early twentieth century and spread across Europe by the conclusion of World War II to bolster Adolf Hitler's German *. Fascism does not tolerate dissent and is intent on spreading its "better ideology" throughout the world.


https://www.diffzy.com/article/difference-between-socialism-and-fascism-559#:~:text=The%20major%20distinction%20between%20socialism%20and%20fascism%20is,is%20one%20of%20the%20several%20kinds%20of%20governance. (https://www.diffzy.com/article/difference-between-socialism-and-fascism-559#:~:text=The%20major%20distinction%20between%20socialism%20and%20fascism%20is,is%20one%20of%20the%20several%20kinds%20of%20governance.)



I am sorry Annie. But you are from Australia and obviously have no idea of European history. So you try but I will not give your reasoning a second thought.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 27, 2023, 15:46
No it isn't it. Hitler came to spy on them but liked their beliefs and joined them. Only to put National later to this socialist party. You do your reading, I would say. Where do you get your information from?
Yes it is.
They were both anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. That's an oxymoron.
But they went for it, because they wanted to please a wide range of the disgruntled population => national populism.
Socialists are very much marxists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 27, 2023, 15:49


I am sorry Annie. But you are from Australia and obviously have no idea of European history. So you try but I will not give your reasoning a second thought.

Oh My God! Your true stripes are showing.

Here we go with the labeling. And I reiterate, know your history or your subject of attack before you start labelling.

My father was Hungarian, my mother Polish. Both born and raised in Europe and later met here in Australia. My mother's first husband was Ukrainian. I have half brothers and sisters, and extended family, who are Hungarian (living in Hungary) and Ukranian.  Is that enough or should I go on?

OMG. I can't even believe you said that.


Be careful. Don't shoot the messenger.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 27, 2023, 15:51

I still hear the same political stands from socialist parties today.

Sorry, but that's all really too weird for me. And you even didn´t read my text.

I recommend a hearing aid.

But even nowadays it's the socialist parties in Europe demonstrating against Israel. So even the hatred against Jews is maybe still alive in the current socialism.

I think you're getting that a little bit mixed up.

There are things happening in Israel that fit with why Pete opened this post. There, there are government efforts to abolish an independent judiciary and allow overruling of Supreme Court decisions by parliamentary government majority. This is an anti-democratic process that is being criticized - and certainly not only by "socialists." To equate this with Jew-hatred is absolutely cynical, polemical and misleading. Are all the people who are taking to the streets in Israel and demonstrating against this bill socialist Jew haters????

And, at the risk of repeating myself now, this is exactly what I meant when I wrote that we all need to be very careful about preserving democracy. Even if there may well be flaws even in democratic systems.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 27, 2023, 16:38
No it isn't it. Hitler came to spy on them but liked their beliefs and joined them. Only to put National later to this socialist party. You do your reading, I would say. Where do you get your information from?
Yes it is.
They were both anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. That's an oxymoron.
But they went for it, because they wanted to please a wide range of the disgruntled population => national populism.
Socialists are very much marxists.

Isn't that what all socialist parties do? Prey on displeasing. Promising that if they take money from the rich and give it to the poor things will be better? That is exactly what Hitler did, and that same party did also before he came, and what is promised also today by socialist parties. Isn't it? The scapegoat differs. Then it was the Weimar republic heavily being burdened by the treaty of Versailles and blaming the jews for owning all the money. Now it's all Russia's fault and soon China for all the wrong doing. And they will be the new enemy for our suffering. Nobody looks at the fact we are just not productive anymore, aging, and just can't compete anymore with the rest of world and have a ton of debt to support our lazy lifestyle. If we can bring down Russia and China things will be better or at least that is what you have to believe these days. It has nothing to do with democratic principles. It's just surviving while you are drowning and pointing to someone else for your own created problems. This debt we have will explode as a balloon and very quickly. But if you have all your citizens joined against an enemy it will create coherence and will not lead to internal chaos. That's the whole idea of world politics these days.

For example the EU who is full of human rights is making deals with Tunesia to stop migration from sub saharan residents coming to Europe. This Tunesian government is not be dealt with normally speaking but out of self protection we will deal with them completely against our beliefs. Same as US dealing with Saudia Arabia. It's all about the money and self preservation. Ideology thougths are just to temper the population and nothing to do with actual acting.

Nobody cares about Africa when there is nothing to gain. There are hundreds of wars going on in this world but only if it's politically or economically interesting we care, it will get in the news, and we will act and make a big deal of it. But otherwise we leave people to rot and die.

All, so called, NGO's in Africa are based for example mostly in Kenia while other countries in Africa really need more help then Kenia. But for the Western workers there, it's more comfortable and more safe. Hypocrisy. Even they play this game.

I predict the crap will hit the fan within two years. And it will be all, the so called, fault of Russia and China. Not our debt, our unproductiveness, aging, or the free money we gave out during the corona epidemic. It's them and everybody will believe it. Exactly what Hitler made the whole German population believe (except for a few). It's their fault, not ours.
You think Trump is Magan? Why is Biden trying to get into a fight with Russia and China at the same time? Shouldn't he be the peace offering guy? Why is the EU doing the same?

Because they know what is coming and you will be believe them because you were told so by them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 27, 2023, 17:04


I am sorry Annie. But you are from Australia and obviously have no idea of European history. So you try but I will not give your reasoning a second thought.

Oh My God! Your true stripes are showing.

Here we go with the labeling. And I reiterate, know your history or your subject of attack before you start labelling.

My father was Hungarian, my mother Polish. Both born and raised in Europe and later met here in Australia. My mother's first husband was Ukrainian. I have half brothers and sisters, and extended family, who are Hungarian (living in Hungary) and Ukranian.  Is that enough or should I go on?

OMG. I can't even believe you said that.


Be careful. Don't shoot the messenger.

Remember Annie that I was the only the one to congratulate on your birthday last year (although one day to late) and wished you well with the birthday cake you wanted to eat (which you actually shouldn't have done, right?). But this infantile lesson between socialism and nazism, I already had at primary school. I can't really respond to something like that. I wish you well though. Sorry if I was rude :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 27, 2023, 17:11


I am sorry Annie. But you are from Australia and obviously have no idea of European history. So you try but I will not give your reasoning a second thought.

Oh My God! Your true stripes are showing.

Here we go with the labeling. And I reiterate, know your history or your subject of attack before you start labelling.

My father was Hungarian, my mother Polish. Both born and raised in Europe and later met here in Australia. My mother's first husband was Ukrainian. I have half brothers and sisters, and extended family, who are Hungarian (living in Hungary) and Ukranian.  Is that enough or should I go on?

OMG. I can't even believe you said that.


Be careful. Don't shoot the messenger.

Remember Annie that I was the only the one to congratulate on your birthday last year (although one day to late) and wished you well with the birthday cake you wanted to eat (which you actually shouldn't have done, right?). But this infantile lesson between socialism and nazism, I already had at primary school. I can't really respond to something like that. I wish you well though. Sorry if I was rude :)

Yes, I do remember that. I was quite surprised at the time and thought that was really sweet of you to remember.  Thanks for the apology.

My mother used to say to us kids when we were fighting, 'Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?'

Most arguing is about everyone trying to be right. Probably time for me to just be happy :-)


(PS. That was nearly a year ago. My birthday is in a month's time - 29 May. You can send cards, flowers, and maybe just a little bit of cake.  ;) Just kidding )
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2023, 04:23
Yes, I can view your Youtube NBC links. Am I interested? No - particularly if all you want to know is this left/right stuff.
ok.
I am not interested in anything else on this issue, except for the "left" and the "right".
But so far it seems to me that NBC is engaged in normal journalism and does not promote any left or right ideas.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 28, 2023, 12:36
Only hours ago, in Uman, Ukraine.

... heartbreaking ... :'(

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fuy8lG8XsAEhJ9t?format=jpg)

@Carlos Barria/Reuters
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 28, 2023, 13:09
I was saying to my husband just the other night, how much media has evolved over the years. I recall back during the gulf war, they were saying it was the first time we could watch a war directly as it was happening on tv. But nowadays its even more remarkable. I follow accounts like the Ukrainian Squad on my personal twitter account, and I can talk directly with the soldiers themselves. They tweet daily with video from their phones and say things like, 'please wish us luck' or 'tell these brave soldiers your message'.

Very powerful photo, Zero.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 28, 2023, 13:36


I am sorry Annie. But you are from Australia and obviously have no idea of European history. So you try but I will not give your reasoning a second thought.

Oh My God! Your true stripes are showing.

Here we go with the labeling. And I reiterate, know your history or your subject of attack before you start labelling.

My father was Hungarian, my mother Polish. Both born and raised in Europe and later met here in Australia. My mother's first husband was Ukrainian. I have half brothers and sisters, and extended family, who are Hungarian (living in Hungary) and Ukranian.  Is that enough or should I go on?

OMG. I can't even believe you said that.


Be careful. Don't shoot the messenger.

Remember Annie that I was the only the one to congratulate on your birthday last year (although one day to late) and wished you well with the birthday cake you wanted to eat (which you actually shouldn't have done, right?). But this infantile lesson between socialism and nazism, I already had at primary school. I can't really respond to something like that. I wish you well though. Sorry if I was rude :)

Yes, I do remember that. I was quite surprised at the time and thought that was really sweet of you to remember.  Thanks for the apology.

My mother used to say to us kids when we were fighting, 'Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?'

Most arguing is about everyone trying to be right. Probably time for me to just be happy :-)


(PS. That was nearly a year ago. My birthday is in a month's time - 29 May. You can send cards, flowers, and maybe just a little bit of cake.  ;) Just kidding )

I'll try to remember this year in time. Which is not hard, it's one day before my own :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2023, 14:02
Only hours ago, in Uman, Ukraine.

... heartbreaking ... :'(

@Carlos Barria/Reuters
Yes, the Russian fascists fired several rockets at residential buildings and wrote in their news that they hit right on target. It was not a blunder, it was a terrorist act.
There is an opinion that the Russians did this on the order of Iran in order to raise the topic of anti-Semitism and spit in the face of Israel.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 28, 2023, 17:54
No it isn't it. Hitler came to spy on them but liked their beliefs and joined them. Only to put National later to this socialist party. You do your reading, I would say. Where do you get your information from?
Yes it is.
They were both anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. That's an oxymoron.
But they went for it, because they wanted to please a wide range of the disgruntled population => national populism.
Socialists are very much marxists.

Isn't that what all socialist parties do? Prey on displeasing. Promising that if they take money from the rich and give it to the poor things will be better? That is exactly what Hitler did, and that same party did also before he came, and what is promised also today by socialist parties. Isn't it? The scapegoat differs. Then it was the Weimar republic heavily being burdened by the treaty of Versailles and blaming the jews for owning all the money.

Again you get facts mixed up! No, it was not the Weimar Republic that was anti-Semitic!   On the contrary! It was the conservative thinkers, those who mourned the Kaiserreich, the supporters of the NSDAP, who brought down the Weimar Republic and paved the way for Hitler to come to power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 28, 2023, 20:04
Only hours ago, in Uman, Ukraine.

... heartbreaking ... :'(

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fuy8lG8XsAEhJ9t?format=jpg)

@Carlos Barria/Reuters

Forgot to say, that could easily be one of those Pulitzer Prize winning war editorial photos.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 02:30
Here you can find more photos of Uman.
https://www.unian.ua/war/kilkist-zhertv-raketnogo-udaru-rf-po-umani-syagnula-19-foto-video-12236346.html (https://www.unian.ua/war/kilkist-zhertv-raketnogo-udaru-rf-po-umani-syagnula-19-foto-video-12236346.html)

and here
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/uman-ukraine?assettype=image&family=editorial&phrase=uman%20ukraine&sort=newest (https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/uman-ukraine?assettype=image&family=editorial&phrase=uman%20ukraine&sort=newest)

https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/uman-ukraine?assettype=film&family=editorial&phrase=uman%20ukraine&sort=newest (https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/uman-ukraine?assettype=film&family=editorial&phrase=uman%20ukraine&sort=newest)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 04:06
For more than a year, Ukraine has been in dire need of F-16 aircraft. In the amount of 100-200 pieces. These planes can shoot down all Russian missiles even on the territory of fascist Russia itself. One plane costs only 10 million dollars. For example, the Patriot missile system costs $1 billion. So the Patriots give Ukraine, but no one gives the extremely necessary F-16. Ukraine can buy planes by itself, but no one is selling.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 04:15
Bakhmut, Ukraine. The Russians completely demolish the city. Thousands died.
(https://i.gyazo.com/fd5455feadae9705a9a7c09f482e8b62.jpg)

Here is a video. But you can watch in the telegram application.
https://t.me/WarZonesInc/43062
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 04:35
Avdiivka, Ukraine. The Russians are demolishing the city along with the people.
(https://i.gyazo.com/c4ae3416d1066ab6b242f1ee23a0d098.jpg)

More photos
https://www.gettyimages.com/search/2/image?family=editorial&phrase=Avdiivka (https://www.gettyimages.com/search/2/image?family=editorial&phrase=Avdiivka)

video
https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/avdiivka?assettype=film&phrase=Avdiivka (https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/avdiivka?assettype=film&phrase=Avdiivka)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 04:47
Mariupol, Ukraine.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlXyiUnXgAEp_rE?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgUiZJYX0AETwfj?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FgUiZJZWYAA5PUj?format=jpg&name=large)
People were buried simply on the streets of the city, not in cemeteries.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOjJAQVXsBEEqAp?format=jpg&name=medium)
Video:
https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/aerial-views-of-the-city-damaged-buildings-and-smoke-on-news-footage/1392702313?adppopup=true (https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/video/aerial-views-of-the-city-damaged-buildings-and-smoke-on-news-footage/1392702313?adppopup=true)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi35hV2gvAw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi35hV2gvAw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PVcgzKTNik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PVcgzKTNik)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 05:23
Irpin, Ukraine.
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/-irpin?assettype=image&family=editorial&phrase=%20Irpin&sort=newest (https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/-irpin?assettype=image&family=editorial&phrase=%20Irpin&sort=newest)

https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/-irpin?assettype=film&phrase=%20Irpin (https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/-irpin?assettype=film&phrase=%20Irpin)

Bucha, Ukraine.
https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/bucha-ukraine?assettype=image&family=editorial&page=99&phrase=Bucha%2C%20Ukraine&sort=newest (https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/bucha-ukraine?assettype=image&family=editorial&page=99&phrase=Bucha%2C%20Ukraine&sort=newest)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2023, 06:50
Yes, but what about....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 10:13
Now in the US Congress, both Democrats and Republicans are putting pressure on Biden and there is hope that the US will allow Ukraine to transfer F-16 and ATACMS missiles. If there is this aircraft and these missiles, the Russian occupation troops will very quickly be thrown out of the territory of Ukraine, and the sky over Ukraine will be closed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 12:48
Kharkiv, Ukraine.
(https://showbiz.24tv.ua/resources/photos/news/202207/2074112.jpg?v=1661252569000&w=840&h=472&fit=cover&output=webp&q=50)

(https://img.tsn.ua/cached/129/tsn-86026451a4bd5b82b0f7aa9436ae117b/thumbs/1036x648/86/d7/900a10153c918f3d2f9361e1c819d786.jpeg)

(https://kharkivoda.gov.ua/content/documents/1159/115844/thumb-newsDocument-900x600-8530.jpg)

(https://gordonua.com/img/article/15985/39_tn.jpg?v1646542455[img][img]https://img.tsn.ua/cached/505/tsn-86026451a4bd5b82b0f7aa9436ae117b/thumbs/1036x648/4b/d3/e981795a4f9179a65f4015f4a71cd34b.jpeg)

(https://img.tsn.ua/cached/505/tsn-86026451a4bd5b82b0f7aa9436ae117b/thumbs/1036x648/4b/d3/e981795a4f9179a65f4015f4a71cd34b.jpeg)

also:

https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/kharkiv?assettype=image&family=editorial&page=60&phrase=Kharkiv&sort=newest (https://www.gettyimages.com/photos/kharkiv?assettype=image&family=editorial&page=60&phrase=Kharkiv&sort=newest)

video
https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/kharkiv?assettype=film&page=20&phrase=Kharkiv&sort=newest&license=rf%2Crr (https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/kharkiv?assettype=film&page=20&phrase=Kharkiv&sort=newest&license=rf%2Crr)

https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/kharkiv?assettype=film&page=21&phrase=Kharkiv&sort=newest&license=rf%2Crr (https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/kharkiv?assettype=film&page=21&phrase=Kharkiv&sort=newest&license=rf%2Crr)

https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/kharkiv?assettype=film&page=18&phrase=Kharkiv&sort=newest&license=rf%2Crr (https://www.gettyimages.com/videos/kharkiv?assettype=film&page=18&phrase=Kharkiv&sort=newest&license=rf%2Crr)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2023, 13:00
Kyiv, Ukraine
(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/6/8/684e998-borodyanka-larin.jpg)

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/5/6/5638c8e-b3-original.jpg)

(https://24tv.ua/resources/photos/news/202203/1906254.jpg?v=1661255369000&w=840&h=472&fit=cover&output=webp&q=50)

(https://24tv.ua/resources/photos/news/202203/1906249_15601514.jpg?202203083737&w=768&h=1024&fit=cover%27&output=webp)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on April 29, 2023, 21:00
...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 30, 2023, 04:46
Rubizhne, Ukraine.
https://youtu.be/WBavOrhnp2s (https://youtu.be/WBavOrhnp2s)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 30, 2023, 14:58
No it isn't it. Hitler came to spy on them but liked their beliefs and joined them. Only to put National later to this socialist party. You do your reading, I would say. Where do you get your information from?
Yes it is.
They were both anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. That's an oxymoron.
But they went for it, because they wanted to please a wide range of the disgruntled population => national populism.
Socialists are very much marxists.

Isn't that what all socialist parties do? Prey on displeasing. Promising that if they take money from the rich and give it to the poor things will be better? That is exactly what Hitler did, and that same party did also before he came, and what is promised also today by socialist parties. Isn't it? The scapegoat differs. Then it was the Weimar republic heavily being burdened by the treaty of Versailles and blaming the jews for owning all the money.

Again you get facts mixed up! No, it was not the Weimar Republic that was anti-Semitic!   On the contrary! It was the conservative thinkers, those who mourned the Kaiserreich, the supporters of the NSDAP, who brought down the Weimar Republic and paved the way for Hitler to come to power.

I didn't say that that the Weimar republic was anti Semetic. I said that during their reign people were, so called, suffering from the Versailles agreements. Something completely different from what you are saying. And then came Hitler with the party he joined. That party did make a point about the jews and that was the socialist party Hitler joined and afterwards led. Try to read and interpret correctly next time.

But you believe what you want to believe and I believe what I want :)

It's getting annoying when even facts are up to discussion. Then a discussion is dead.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 30, 2023, 14:59
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 30, 2023, 15:25
Now in the US Congress, both Democrats and Republicans are putting pressure on Biden and there is hope that the US will allow Ukraine to transfer F-16 and ATACMS missiles. If there is this aircraft and these missiles, the Russian occupation troops will very quickly be thrown out of the territory of Ukraine, and the sky over Ukraine will be closed.
Yes, throw more weapons into a fight. That will certainly help reducing suffering. But if you are doing it, just nuke Russia otherwise it will only prolong suffering. Can't you see that America just wants that it will cost Russia more then they expected. It's a dangerous game and somebody will get a bit nervous around the red button. Or maybe someone just makes a misstake because of wrong intel. And then we are all going to die here in Europe. Thanks a lot for you war games!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 30, 2023, 15:33
No it isn't it. Hitler came to spy on them but liked their beliefs and joined them. Only to put National later to this socialist party. You do your reading, I would say. Where do you get your information from?
Yes it is.
They were both anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. That's an oxymoron.
But they went for it, because they wanted to please a wide range of the disgruntled population => national populism.
Socialists are very much marxists.

Isn't that what all socialist parties do? Prey on displeasing. Promising that if they take money from the rich and give it to the poor things will be better? That is exactly what Hitler did, and that same party did also before he came, and what is promised also today by socialist parties. Isn't it? The scapegoat differs. Then it was the Weimar republic heavily being burdened by the treaty of Versailles and blaming the jews for owning all the money.

Again you get facts mixed up! No, it was not the Weimar Republic that was anti-Semitic!   On the contrary! It was the conservative thinkers, those who mourned the Kaiserreich, the supporters of the NSDAP, who brought down the Weimar Republic and paved the way for Hitler to come to power.

I didn't say that that the Weimar republic was anti Semetic.

You wrote: „ Then it was the Weimar republic … blaming the jews for owning all the money.“

And I repeat myself: this is wrong! It was not the Weimar Republic. It was right-wing political circles that existed during the Weimar Republic. That is a huge difference!!!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 30, 2023, 15:50
No it isn't it. Hitler came to spy on them but liked their beliefs and joined them. Only to put National later to this socialist party. You do your reading, I would say. Where do you get your information from?
Yes it is.
They were both anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. That's an oxymoron.
But they went for it, because they wanted to please a wide range of the disgruntled population => national populism.
Socialists are very much marxists.

Isn't that what all socialist parties do? Prey on displeasing. Promising that if they take money from the rich and give it to the poor things will be better? That is exactly what Hitler did, and that same party did also before he came, and what is promised also today by socialist parties. Isn't it? The scapegoat differs. Then it was the Weimar republic heavily being burdened by the treaty of Versailles and blaming the jews for owning all the money.

Again you get facts mixed up! No, it was not the Weimar Republic that was anti-Semitic!   On the contrary! It was the conservative thinkers, those who mourned the Kaiserreich, the supporters of the NSDAP, who brought down the Weimar Republic and paved the way for Hitler to come to power.

I didn't say that that the Weimar republic was anti Semetic.

You wrote: „ Then it was the Weimar republic … blaming the jews for owning all the money.“

And I repeat myself: this is wrong! It was not the Weimar Republic. It was right-wing political circles that existed during the Weimar Republic. That is a huge difference!!!
I wrote:
"Then it was the Weimar republic heavily being burdened by the treaty of Versailles and blaming the jews for owning all the money." It was a sentence in a long story. You should have read Hitlers party between Versailles and blaming the jews. Obviously, you know the history, it's not the Weimar republic that blamed the jews, it was Hitler and his party that took over. I was only making a point about the scape goat here. Sure, I could have spelled it out better. But the point there was that people of the Weimar republic were suffering of the Versalles agreement and that is why Hitlers party became so succesful. While other socialist parties become sucessful also when the people think they are suffering. And then it is easy to find a scape goat. C'mon.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on April 30, 2023, 16:06
I would say: Let's put all Russians and Americans together into one big cage. And who wins will have all the glory. And leave everyone else out of it so they can continue their lives. And if EU civilians and politicians want to join, be my guest. I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 30, 2023, 16:20
No it isn't it. Hitler came to spy on them but liked their beliefs and joined them. Only to put National later to this socialist party. You do your reading, I would say. Where do you get your information from?
Yes it is.
They were both anti-marxists and anti-capitalists. That's an oxymoron.
But they went for it, because they wanted to please a wide range of the disgruntled population => national populism.
Socialists are very much marxists.

Isn't that what all socialist parties do? Prey on displeasing. Promising that if they take money from the rich and give it to the poor things will be better? That is exactly what Hitler did, and that same party did also before he came, and what is promised also today by socialist parties. Isn't it? The scapegoat differs. Then it was the Weimar republic heavily being burdened by the treaty of Versailles and blaming the jews for owning all the money.

Again you get facts mixed up! No, it was not the Weimar Republic that was anti-Semitic!   On the contrary! It was the conservative thinkers, those who mourned the Kaiserreich, the supporters of the NSDAP, who brought down the Weimar Republic and paved the way for Hitler to come to power.

I didn't say that that the Weimar republic was anti Semetic.

You wrote: „ Then it was the Weimar republic … blaming the jews for owning all the money.“

And I repeat myself: this is wrong! It was not the Weimar Republic. It was right-wing political circles that existed during the Weimar Republic. That is a huge difference!!!
I wrote:
"Then it was the Weimar republic heavily being burdened by the treaty of Versailles and blaming the jews for owning all the money." It was a sentence in a long story. You should have read Hitlers party between Versailles and blaming the jews. Obviously, you know the history, it's not the Weimar republic that blamed the jews, it was Hitler and his party that took over. I was only making a point about the scape goat here. Sure, I could have spelled it out better. But the point there was that people of the Weimar republic were suffering of the Versalles agreement and that is why Hitlers party became so succesful. While other socialist parties become sucessful also when the people think they are suffering. And then it is easy to find a scape goat. C'mon.

Oh, finally!

That's exactly how it was. There had finally developed in Germany a takeoff of democracy - away from the empire - and then the right wing established itself, which said " it can't be that such a strong and great country like Germany lost a war. We can only become strong and great again if we revive the old values. Let's make Germany great again." We know how that turned out. The red button was not yet there, but Germany started World War II with exactly this thinking, even though the defeat of World War I had not yet been digested. Is something dawning on you?

Russia, like Germany back then, wants to become great again....

Which brings us back to Pete's lines that started this post.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 30, 2023, 17:52
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 02:51
You only prove my point.
Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes
You have become "comfortably numb".
.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.
You are the proof that propaganda is effective.
 :(
This troll is itself a part of Russian propaganda, he relays it 100%. He does not add or change anything in this propaganda. He is paid for it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 02:54
Why is the current pope working for the Russians. Why does he work for the KGB (FSB)? Who has any thoughts on this.
Yes, he represents some kind of global south and has left-wing views (which confirms that socialism and communism = fascism), but to help the Russians on behalf of the entire Catholic Church is already too much.
(https://i.ibb.co/NnMrhX3/1682829542-6834.webp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 03:03
There is already good news after Uman.
"The UK is buying long-range missiles for Ukraine with a range of up to 300 km and a payload of 20 to 490 kilograms. Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Lithuania teamed up with the UK to quickly buy weapons for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The fund's budget is 520 million pounds."

This means that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be able to destroy the Crimean bridge in the Kerch Strait. The Russians will not be able to supply weapons to Crimea and southern Ukraine, and this should lead to the fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will de-occupy Crimea and southern Ukraine.
 :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 05:19
Russia, like Germany back then, wants to become great again....
Russia is a fascist and totalitarian country. Russia's goal is terrorism, murder, war crimes, genocide and the death of democracy. There is no need to talk about greatness here, these are just words for the electorate. Russians are a poor nation, but they want to kill other peoples and occupy other people's territories. Why work when you can invade a foreign country, kill people, deport people, rob people. Russians break into the houses of Ukrainians, take away toilet bowls, washing machines, household appliances and take the loot to Russia. Russian occupants massively deport Ukrainians to Russia as slaves. Children are also deported. The court in The Hague has already issued an arrest warrant for Putin.
It is surprising that Russians are still present at all in the United Nations Organization. Their level is the deep Middle Ages.
There are only two relatively wealthy cities in Russia, Moscow and St. Petersburg. These two cities live off the robbery of all other peoples that are part of the Russian empire. The Russian government steals most of the money that Russia receives for the export of energy resources.
The rest of the Russian empire lives a beggarly life. Many people do not have, for example, a toilet bowl in the house.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 06:29
Is anyone following the Twitter and Elon Musk? He unblocked Russian propaganda on twitter. Why is he working for the Russians? Or did Trump order him?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 01, 2023, 09:19
Is anyone following the Twitter and Elon Musk? He unblocked Russian propaganda on twitter. Why is he working for the Russians? Or did Trump order him?

I'm not a fan, but it's his company. He should be free to do use it as he wants.

Anyways,  Medvedev's account was restricted (he complained about it on Telegram), following a post he made arguing that Poland "should not exist" (I am sure this is no reason to worry for those who are "comfortably numbed"  ::) ).

Medvedved also said that "we have used it quite cynically to advance our propaganda goals" (fyi, Twitter is blocked in Russia 😉)

This can only show that even by Musk's extended free speech standards, russian propaganda is absolute garbage.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 01, 2023, 12:20
Is anyone following the Twitter and Elon Musk? He unblocked Russian propaganda on twitter. Why is he working for the Russians? Or did Trump order him?

I'm not a fan, but it's his company. He should be free to do use it as he wants.



Same here.

He was on Bill Maher's show on the weekend, here's the full interview where he talks about free speech, wokism, AI, etc.

https://youtu.be/oO8w6XcXJUs


I am not necessarily a big fan of Maher either. Sometimes he's a bit too precious for my liking, but he can be very funny other times, and I really like his show. It has a very good format.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 13:20
I read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html)
According to the New York Times, since Musk's arrival on Twitter, the increase of slurs of African-Americans on the network by 3,876 times per day, homosexuals - by 3,964 times per day, and the number of anti-Semitic posts has increased by 61% in two weeks.

The accounts of ISIS and QAnon (an ultra-right community of conspiracy theorists in the United States) have been leaked again on Twitter.

Imran Ahmed, executive director of the Center to Counter Digital Hate, wrote: "Musk is sending a signal to all racists, misogynists and homophobes that they can go back to Twitter and go about their business in peace."

Twitter is a company that does not block Russian propaganda accounts, profiles of politicians, war criminals and their aggressive content.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 13:27
Marinka, Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O54jJO-S0Wo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O54jJO-S0Wo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9hNSJeAlRE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9hNSJeAlRE)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 01, 2023, 15:01
I read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html)
According to the New York Times, since Musk's arrival on Twitter, the number of images of African-Americans on the network has increased by 3,876 times per day, homosexuals - by 3,964 times per day, and the number of anti-Semitic posts has increased by 61% in two weeks.

The accounts of ISIS and QAnon (an ultra-right community of conspiracy theorists in the United States) have been leaked again on Twitter.

Imran Ahmed, executive director of the Center to Counter Digital Hate, wrote: "Musk is sending a signal to all racists, misogynists and homophobes that they can go back to Twitter and go about their business in peace."

Twitter is a company that does not block Russian propaganda accounts, profiles of politicians, war criminals and their aggressive content.

Personally, I have a huge problem with Elon Musk anyway.

But where is your problem with African Americans and homosexuals? And why do you equate these groups of people with anti-Semites or ISIS or QAnon?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 15:19
But where is your problem with African Americans and homosexuals? And why do you equate these groups of people with anti-Semites or ISIS or QAnon?
I have nothing to do with it. I briefly quoted what they write in the article, the link to which I gave. All these questions should be asked to Musk.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 01, 2023, 15:28
I read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html)
According to the New York Times, since Musk's arrival on Twitter, the number of images of African-Americans on the network has increased by 3,876 times per day, homosexuals - by 3,964 times per day, and the number of anti-Semitic posts has increased by 61% in two weeks.

The accounts of ISIS and QAnon (an ultra-right community of conspiracy theorists in the United States) have been leaked again on Twitter.

Imran Ahmed, executive director of the Center to Counter Digital Hate, wrote: "Musk is sending a signal to all racists, misogynists and homophobes that they can go back to Twitter and go about their business in peace."

Twitter is a company that does not block Russian propaganda accounts, profiles of politicians, war criminals and their aggressive content.

Personally, I have a huge problem with Elon Musk anyway.

But where is your problem with African Americans and homosexuals? And why do you equate these groups of people with anti-Semites or ISIS or QAnon?

The article is talking about an increase of slurs, not images, against black Americans, Jews and gay men.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 01, 2023, 15:32
I read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html)
According to the New York Times, since Musk's arrival on Twitter, the number of images of African-Americans on the network has increased by 3,876 times per day, homosexuals - by 3,964 times per day, and the number of anti-Semitic posts has increased by 61% in two weeks.

The accounts of ISIS and QAnon (an ultra-right community of conspiracy theorists in the United States) have been leaked again on Twitter.

Imran Ahmed, executive director of the Center to Counter Digital Hate, wrote: "Musk is sending a signal to all racists, misogynists and homophobes that they can go back to Twitter and go about their business in peace."

Twitter is a company that does not block Russian propaganda accounts, profiles of politicians, war criminals and their aggressive content.

Personally, I have a huge problem with Elon Musk anyway.

But where is your problem with African Americans and homosexuals? And why do you equate these groups of people with anti-Semites or ISIS or QAnon?

The article is talking about an increase of slurs, not images, against black Americans, Jews and gay men.

Thanks, Zero, now I understand what it's all about.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 01, 2023, 15:34
But where is your problem with African Americans and homosexuals? And why do you equate these groups of people with anti-Semites or ISIS or QAnon?
I have nothing to do with it. I briefly quoted what they write in the article, the link to which I gave. All these questions should be asked to Musk.

Okay, sorry, Zero Talent cleared up my thoughts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 01, 2023, 15:52
Okay, sorry, Zero Talent cleared up my thoughts.
Pardon my bad english
 :-[
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 01, 2023, 19:52
I read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/02/technology/twitter-hate-speech.html)
According to the New York Times, since Musk's arrival on Twitter, the increase of slurs of African-Americans on the network by 3,876 times per day, homosexuals - by 3,964 times per day, and the number of anti-Semitic posts has increased by 61% in two weeks.

The accounts of ISIS and QAnon (an ultra-right community of conspiracy theorists in the United States) have been leaked again on Twitter.

Imran Ahmed, executive director of the Center to Counter Digital Hate, wrote: "Musk is sending a signal to all racists, misogynists and homophobes that they can go back to Twitter and go about their business in peace."

Twitter is a company that does not block Russian propaganda accounts, profiles of politicians, war criminals and their aggressive content.

I think the argument for/against free speech is an interesting one. When Musk first started with his free speech stance on Twitter, he was fiercely attacked on Twitter (probably still is), and one of those commentors said to him "you don't understand the 1st Amendment".

So I looked up the USA first amendment and some scholars said: the Government cannot interfere with your right to free speech, religion, free press, etc.** But if there's no government involved the first amendment does not apply.



Within the American legal system, free speech does not apply if it is harmful to others. As per the recent Alex Jones trial.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-reaches-verdict-alex-jones-pay-sandy-hook/story?id=91399930 (https://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-reaches-verdict-alex-jones-pay-sandy-hook/story?id=91399930)



Then there's the existential argument, which Musk is trying to uphold. However, there are still major problems with this as you have outlined.



I like the way Leaf runs this forum, we are all given the right to say whatever we like, but if you cause harm or attack others, you are banned, or your posts are deleted.


......


** This seems to apply to the current case of Disney vs DeSantis. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 01, 2023, 20:26

So I looked up the USA first amendment and some scholars said: the Government cannot interfere with your right to free speech, religion, free press, etc. But if there's no government involved the first amendment does not apply.**


Of course, many don't understand that the 1st amendment only applies to the government, not private entities.

Old Twitter had all the right to deny whomever they wanted the "right"
to express themselves on their private platform, including an acting US president (let me see that in russia, please), the same way Musk has the right to host whomever he likes or thinks is good for his business.

The 1st Amendment only comes into the picture if the conspiracy (also promoted by Musk) claiming that the government was behind those suspensions is proven true.

I'm sure that the old Twitter worked with the FBI, like many other communication companies do (e.g. Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, FB, Google, etc). But from this to coercion by the government and a breach of the 1st Amendment, is a (very) long way.

Old Twitter thought they had a business interest to limit hate speech because that would scare away advertisers, while Musk thinks this is not an issue, betting that a controversial Twitter will draw a bigger audience and the advertisers will follow.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 01, 2023, 21:07

So I looked up the USA first amendment and some scholars said: the Government cannot interfere with your right to free speech, religion, free press, etc. But if there's no government involved the first amendment does not apply.**


Of course, many don't understand that the 1st amendment only applies to the government, not private entities.

Old Twitter had all the right to deny whomever they wanted the "right"
to express themselves on their private platform, including an acting US president (let me see that in russia, please), the same way Musk has the right to host whomever he likes or thinks is good for his business.

The 1st Amendment only comes into the picture if the conspiracy (also promoted by Musk) claiming that the government was behind those suspensions is proven true.

I'm sure that the old Twitter worked with the FBI, like many other communication companies do (e.g. Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, FB, Google, etc). But from this to coercion by the government and a breach of the 1st Amendment, is a (very) long way.

Old Twitter thought they had a business interest to limit hate speech because that would scare away advertisers, while Musk thinks this is not an issue, betting that a controversial Twitter will draw a bigger audience and the advertisers will follow.

Thank you! Some very important points there.

And of course, the big advertisers will always shy away from harmful or negative commentary or behaviour. As was seen on Fox with Bill O'Reilly and Tucker Carlson.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 02, 2023, 03:20
Within the American legal system, free speech does not apply if it is harmful to others. As per the recent Alex Jones trial.
I can't say that I understood all your thoughts. But I will say this, if insults are written to different segments of the population on Twitter; and if Twitter does not block Russian propaganda and war criminals, then Twitter is harming humanity.
In this case, Elon Musk cannot be seen as just one person who can walk the streets and say what he wants, or write what he wants on the Internet. Elon Musk runs a media company that is actually a political force that can influence the lives of many people. I think that the constitution does not exactly apply to Twitter. Here, the law enforcement system should deal with Twitter.

Please note that where there is Russian propaganda, there is also racism, homophobia and anti-Simetism nearby. Russia is a terrorist country around which all other terrorist forces gather. And in this case, the Twitter has become a platform for all this evil.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 02, 2023, 12:36
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(



Maybe I have become numb. I sure have gotten more egocentric. In the sense that I tend to care what happens to my family and less about the rest of humanity. I don't see that much difference in wrong doing between Russia and USA. I don't understand that suffering on one place on earth should be more grave than another place. I see countries playing dangerous war games. I don't wan't to repeat myself here but sovereign countries have been invaded by both super powers. If that is your red line then you should at least agree with me that in the last decades both have been completely wrong. I don't think that the US government really cares about Ukraine. I do think they care about Russia and what it is costing them.
And Ukraine is not one people. You have multiple ethnicities. Why would there have been a civil war for ten years if it wasn't? All because of Russia's intimidation? It doesn't really make sense to hold up that argument.
Why were the Minsk accords broken by Ukraine? Why not split the country in two and each side chooses their destination and end this war? We did it in Yuogoslavia, right? It's not that the borders of Ukraine are real, they were drawn up. Split the country up along the Dnjepr and everybody lives their lives happy on each side they want. By slowly dropping weapons in this fight you will only increase suffering longer.
There will never be peace or you have to oust all ethnic russians and so called traitors, but then you have robbed people of their land as well.

Edit: Maybe we should let Stoker decide (he can't read this anyway :) ) but I am sure he will just nuke Russia and doesn't think about the consequences. But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 02, 2023, 16:04
And then another thing. America shot to hell the half of the Middle East and everybody is heading into Europe as well as half of poor Africa.
If you think that is fine because everybody can choose where they want to live then OK, right? Everybody poor at the end and we share the suffering all together. Fair and square. Why should we be the lucky one to be born where we are?
But why is not America (or Austrialia for that matter) opening their borders to all people that want to live your lives? It's incredibly hard to get into these countries even if you are wll educated and come from a Western country let alone if you come from somewhere else.
Why is even the Biden administration maintaining this strict immigration rules. Why is the wall not gone that Trump started (even though it was Obama who started it in the first place). Why are people being detained when entering the country and expelled eventually? People are poor, they want to have a better life, why not let them in? Where is your humanity?
Or is it just Europe that has to swallow the bitter pill on behalf of your good intentions?

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 02, 2023, 16:46
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(



Why were the Minsk accords broken by Ukraine?

Where does the information come from that Ukraine has violated the Minsk Agreement?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 02, 2023, 16:55
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(



Why were the Minsk accords broken by Ukraine?

Where does the information come from that Ukraine has violated the Minsk Agreement?

No worries, it's part of the same russian propaganda, swallowed unchewed, by many.  ::)

Anyone can notice these points from the Minsk 2 agreement:

9. Restoration of full control of the state border by the government of Ukraine.
10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment and mercenaries.


But russia claimed they had no forces there (which is an obvious lie) so they had no border to restore and no troops to withdraw from Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 02, 2023, 16:56
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(


But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 02, 2023, 17:28
Great Russian Empire
The word "Great" please do not use in relation to Russia. This empire has never been great, ever. And the Russians themselves never existed, they are a mixture of Mongols, Asians and Ukrainians. As a result, the Russians appeared only in the 16th century, after which they began to kill their neighbors, occupy their territories and appropriated the history of the Ukrainian people. But Ukrainians have lived in Europe since Kievan Rus'. Ukrainians lived in Kievan Rus' and spoke the Ukrainian language.
You can read about Moscovia (where the russians originally appeared and lived) here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscovia_(region) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscovia_(region))
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 03, 2023, 07:27
On September 11, 2001, terrorists started a war against the democratic world and killed many people in the US.
Axis of evil: Iraq - Iran - North Korea - Russia - China. These are all countries with a fascist regime.
The US and allies brought down the regime in Iraq. Now Ukraine is fighting for the entire civilized world against Russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 03, 2023, 08:14
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qc9h4wTxOZo (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qc9h4wTxOZo)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yuWDW2F5XN4 (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yuWDW2F5XN4)

The Armed Forces of Ukraine today the Kremlin was blown up a little in Moscow. Significant event.
 :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 03, 2023, 12:52
Most likely a false flag operation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 03, 2023, 16:06
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(


But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.
Exactly. Yugoslavia did not work, neither will Ukraine as a whole. That was my point. Split it up like we did with Yugoslavia. I am not saying the eastern part should be part of Russia but give it, it's own country, which then can relate to which ever country it likes, as well as the western part. That will be the end solution to this war and stop the unnecessary loss of lives.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 03, 2023, 16:38
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(



Why were the Minsk accords broken by Ukraine?

Where does the information come from that Ukraine has violated the Minsk Agreement?
Zelensky admitted himself it in a 'Der Spiegel' interview. But it is general knowledge the Minsk agreements were never implemented by Ukraine. https://archive.is/Q5Eol (https://archive.is/Q5Eol)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 04, 2023, 03:19
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(


But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.
Exactly. Yugoslavia did not work, neither will Ukraine as a whole. That was my point. Split it up like we did with Yugoslavia. I am not saying the eastern part should be part of Russia but give it, it's own country, which then can relate to which ever country it likes, as well as the western part. That will be the end solution to this war and stop the unnecessary loss of lives.

This is impossible because:

2022
8:33 p.m.: Russian President Vladimir Putin called Ukraine a "historic Russian territory" in a televised address to the nation Monday night. The country is "an integral part of its own history," the head of state said. Ukraine has no tradition of statehood, he added. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he said, put Russia in a difficult position. In its aftermath, he said, it was a mistake to allow Ukraine and other Soviet republics to become independent. "We gave these republics the right to leave the union without conditions," Putin said. "This is simply madness."

It is not about eastern Ukraine at all, but about all of Ukraine - and many other now independent states of the former Soviet Union.

In this respect, what you write cannot be a solution.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 04, 2023, 03:30
This is impossible because:
2022
8:33 p.m.: Russian President Vladimir Putin called Ukraine a "historic Russian territory" in a televised address to the nation Monday night. The country is "an integral part of its own history," the head of state said. Ukraine has no tradition of statehood, he added. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he said, put Russia in a difficult position. In its aftermath, he said, it was a mistake to allow Ukraine and other Soviet republics to become independent. "We gave these republics the right to leave the union without conditions," Putin said. "This is simply madness."

It is not about eastern Ukraine at all, but about all of Ukraine - and many other now independent states of the former Soviet Union.

In this respect, what you write cannot be a solution.
+100
Russian propagandists have not yet had time to change the manuals. Russia is occupying and annexing foreign territories, but Russian trolls continue to tell that there is a civil war in Ukraine.
I will say this, the Russian empire must be destroyed and all occupied peoples should be given freedom. Russians should live only within the borders of the Muscovite state of the 16th century.
It is a pity that the forum does not ban trolls who write Russian propaganda here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 04, 2023, 03:56
Most likely a false flag operation.
Is not a fact. Why would the Russians shoot at their Kremlin? What's the point of this? Yes, Ukraine will not officially confirm this strike, but Ukraine does not officially confirm a lot of things. All these rumors, that it was the Russians themselves who allegedly hit, are made so that there is no shame on the whole world about what a leaky air defense the Russians have. All the "power" of the Russian army has always rested only on a myth. In fact, it turned out that this army knows how to fight only with women and children.
The Russian army is a rabble: marauders, rapists, murderers, drug addicts, prisoners, war criminals, sadists, maniacs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 04, 2023, 08:46
Of course it's not a fact.

What is weird is that explosion was documented by a couple of leaked russian CCTV footages (is it that easy?), the russians immediately jumped to conclusions and blamed the Ukrainians, calling it a Putin assasination attempt (because he is still working at 2:30 am?), that explosion was more like fireworks rather than something meant to destroy and kill... and what makes it even weirder is that (also on your video) we can see two people climbing the Kremlin roof, just before the explosion.

This can very well be either an amateur attempt to damage the Kremlin's roof (by Ukrainians or by some russian opposition), an air defense penetration attempt meant to humiliate the russians (with what purpose? For the memes, just to troll them?), or a false flag operation by the russians, designed to produce no damage but to justify future actions.
We will see.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 04, 2023, 10:57
an air defense penetration attempt meant to humiliate the russians (with what purpose? For the memes, just to troll them?),
Thus, the armed forces of Ukraine are probing the Russian air defense, learning to bypass it. Today there was a drone, and tomorrow there will be a drone with a lot of ammunition or a rocket.
The Russians showed the videos much later, obviously they didn’t want to show them at all, but amateur videos began to appear on the net, so they say. And it was no longer possible to hide.
Yes, there are people on the roof, but as the Russians said, they are there to shoot down drones. Drone was not alone.
Perhaps the Russians themselves did this, but in this case they disgraced themselves to the whole world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 04, 2023, 10:59
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(


But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.
Exactly. Yugoslavia did not work, neither will Ukraine as a whole. That was my point. Split it up like we did with Yugoslavia. I am not saying the eastern part should be part of Russia but give it, it's own country, which then can relate to which ever country it likes, as well as the western part. That will be the end solution to this war and stop the unnecessary loss of lives.

This is impossible because:

2022
8:33 p.m.: Russian President Vladimir Putin called Ukraine a "historic Russian territory" in a televised address to the nation Monday night. The country is "an integral part of its own history," the head of state said. Ukraine has no tradition of statehood, he added. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he said, put Russia in a difficult position. In its aftermath, he said, it was a mistake to allow Ukraine and other Soviet republics to become independent. "We gave these republics the right to leave the union without conditions," Putin said. "This is simply madness."

It is not about eastern Ukraine at all, but about all of Ukraine - and many other now independent states of the former Soviet Union.

In this respect, what you write cannot be a solution.

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 04, 2023, 11:24

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.

russia has no right to have any say in re-drawing the borders of any sovereign country. Not Ukraine, not Georgia, not Moldova, not the Baltic countries, not Poland nor Romania. Not even Belarus.

There is and there was NO civil war, in eastern Ukraine. There were russian troops with no insignia and a bunch of russian provocateurs.
It was an invasion by an imperialist power from the very begining, when their puppet president was toppled and Ukraine stopped being a russian colony/vassal.

This is why the Minsk agreement explicitly asked for the withdrawal of foreign troops, point russia failed to comply with, because they claimed they had no troops there.
Instead, they cynically accused Ukraine for not compying with the agreement.  :o

And this is the propagada you sadly believe and propagate further  ::)

PS. Minsk agreement reminder:
9. Restoration of full control of the state border by the government of Ukraine.
10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment and mercenaries


Edit: This old british comedy is doing a good job in explaining the russian "salami tactics" applied in Ukraine:
https://youtu.be/o861Ka9TtT4
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 04, 2023, 13:22
And this is the propagada you sadly believe and propagate further  ::)
I think he's just working off the money the Russians are paying him. Business as usual.
 >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 04, 2023, 13:26
russia has no right to have any say in re-drawing the borders of any sovereign country. Not Ukraine, not Georgia, not Moldova, not the Baltic countries, not Poland nor Romania. Not even Belarus.
As long as the Russian empire exists, all European countries are under the threat of occupation. The Russians have already put forward an ultimatum to NATO, so that NATO gets out on the borders of the 40s of the last century. I do not see the difference between Russia and Nazi Germany in the 30s of the last century.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 04, 2023, 13:38
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FgAAal9ngR0 (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FgAAal9ngR0)

Today, Russian fascists sent a Shahed drone over Kyiv, in the video the work of the Ukrainian air defense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 04, 2023, 14:42

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.

russia has no right to have any say in re-drawing the borders of any sovereign country. Not Ukraine, not Georgia, not Moldova, not the Baltic countries, not Poland nor Romania. Not even Belarus.

There is and there was NO civil war, in eastern Ukraine. There were russian troops with no insignia and a bunch of russian provocateurs.
It was an invasion by an imperialist power from the very begining, when their puppet president was toppled and Ukraine stopped being a russian colony/vassal.

This is why the Minsk agreement explicitly asked for the withdrawal of foreign troops, point russia failed to comply with, because they claimed they had no troops there.
Instead, they cynically accused Ukraine for not compying with the agreement.  :o

And this is the propagada you sadly believe and propagate further  ::)

PS. Minsk agreement reminder:
9. Restoration of full control of the state border by the government of Ukraine.
10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment and mercenaries


Edit: This old british comedy is doing a good job in explaining the russian "salami tactics" applied in Ukraine:
https://youtu.be/o861Ka9TtT4
Really Zero? An elected (you can question if the election was fair or not) was ousted by a revolt supported by the EU and the USA. Those powers openly mingled in the sovereign affairs of a country. Fine, the western part didn't want to deal with Russia anymore and wanted to join the West. I can acknowledge that, I live there as well. But there were surely people in the east that were not pleased with this coup/uprising. Don't they have a say in this? They were and are part of the same country as well. Or were they all held at gunpoint by the russians? C'mon Zero. That is not what happened. If so, why on earth would Germany and France have arranged the Minsk agreements in the first place? Are they all on the side of Russia? Can't follow your reasoning anymore.
I understand that the USA has no interest in ending this war soon because they have benefits in prolonging it. But in the end you will have to find a solution to a problem that was already there before Russia invaded Ukraine in the first place. I am not agreeing with the war or the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine but also not with the mingling ten years ago by the EU and the USA and that people in the east of Ukraine have been totally disregarded since then. It is not that Russia did not complain about this for many years. Still not an excuse for what they are doing now but western countries ignoring these concerns an waiving them away are guilty here as well. I am just practical here and looking at the facts and how they are played out.
And it surprises me that nobody is looking at peace negotiations here and can only think of pouring more weapons in this war. It is probably not in their interest. Does this help the Ukranian people, west or east?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 04, 2023, 14:59
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(


But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.
Exactly. Yugoslavia did not work, neither will Ukraine as a whole. That was my point. Split it up like we did with Yugoslavia. I am not saying the eastern part should be part of Russia but give it, it's own country, which then can relate to which ever country it likes, as well as the western part. That will be the end solution to this war and stop the unnecessary loss of lives.

This is impossible because:

2022
8:33 p.m.: Russian President Vladimir Putin called Ukraine a "historic Russian territory" in a televised address to the nation Monday night. The country is "an integral part of its own history," the head of state said. Ukraine has no tradition of statehood, he added. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he said, put Russia in a difficult position. In its aftermath, he said, it was a mistake to allow Ukraine and other Soviet republics to become independent. "We gave these republics the right to leave the union without conditions," Putin said. "This is simply madness."

It is not about eastern Ukraine at all, but about all of Ukraine - and many other now independent states of the former Soviet Union.

In this respect, what you write cannot be a solution.

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.

The ethnic cleansing operations are already underway. Ukrainian children are being abducted and handed over to Russian families. Do you have children? Do you have the slightest idea what this means?

And, as can be seen from Putin's statement, the Dnieper is not something that is up for discussion, but the Soviet Union at the size it was before 1991.
Which was what Yugoslavia was - namely a potpourri of the most diverse ethnicities, cultures, traditions and religions. Which also then - as in Yugoslavia - did not work and will not work. As far as Yugoslavia is concerned, you have already admitted that yourself.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 04, 2023, 15:23
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(


But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.
Exactly. Yugoslavia did not work, neither will Ukraine as a whole. That was my point. Split it up like we did with Yugoslavia. I am not saying the eastern part should be part of Russia but give it, it's own country, which then can relate to which ever country it likes, as well as the western part. That will be the end solution to this war and stop the unnecessary loss of lives.

This is impossible because:

2022
8:33 p.m.: Russian President Vladimir Putin called Ukraine a "historic Russian territory" in a televised address to the nation Monday night. The country is "an integral part of its own history," the head of state said. Ukraine has no tradition of statehood, he added. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he said, put Russia in a difficult position. In its aftermath, he said, it was a mistake to allow Ukraine and other Soviet republics to become independent. "We gave these republics the right to leave the union without conditions," Putin said. "This is simply madness."

It is not about eastern Ukraine at all, but about all of Ukraine - and many other now independent states of the former Soviet Union.

In this respect, what you write cannot be a solution.

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.

The ethnic cleansing operations are already underway. Ukrainian children are being abducted and handed over to Russian families. Do you have children? Do you have the slightest idea what this means?

And, as can be seen from Putin's statement, the Dnieper is not something that is up for discussion, but the Soviet Union at the size it was before 1991.
Which was what Yugoslavia was - namely a potpourri of the most diverse ethnicities, cultures, traditions and religions. Which also then - as in Yugoslavia - did not work and will not work. As far as Yugoslavia is concerned, you have already admitted that yourself.
Wilm, you are not getting my point. Yugoslavia as one country did not work. Ukraine as one country will not work either. Split it up to solve it, is what I am saying (not make it part of Russia).
But I guess I am on my own here and everybody has to believe that Ukraine is one people, there was nothing going on before Russia invaded it and the EU and USA are only handling in the interest of humankind. So, enough then. Also, on this subject, I will not bother you anymore. We will see how things will evolve and if the pressure cooker will explode or someone will finally just takes the lit off to calm things down again. I hope people come to their senses.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 04, 2023, 15:36

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.

russia has no right to have any say in re-drawing the borders of any sovereign country. Not Ukraine, not Georgia, not Moldova, not the Baltic countries, not Poland nor Romania. Not even Belarus.

There is and there was NO civil war, in eastern Ukraine. There were russian troops with no insignia and a bunch of russian provocateurs.
It was an invasion by an imperialist power from the very begining, when their puppet president was toppled and Ukraine stopped being a russian colony/vassal.

This is why the Minsk agreement explicitly asked for the withdrawal of foreign troops, point russia failed to comply with, because they claimed they had no troops there.
Instead, they cynically accused Ukraine for not compying with the agreement.  :o

And this is the propagada you sadly believe and propagate further  ::)

PS. Minsk agreement reminder:
9. Restoration of full control of the state border by the government of Ukraine.
10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment and mercenaries


Edit: This old british comedy is doing a good job in explaining the russian "salami tactics" applied in Ukraine:
https://youtu.be/o861Ka9TtT4
Really Zero? An elected (you can question if the election was fair or not) was ousted by a revolt supported by the EU and the USA. Those powers openly mingled in the sovereign affairs of a country. Fine, the western part didn't want to deal with Russia anymore and wanted to join the West. I can acknowledge that, I live there as well. But there were surely people in the east that were not pleased with this coup/uprising. Don't they have a say in this? They were and are part of the same country as well. Or were they all held at gunpoint by the russians? C'mon Zero. That is not what happened. If so, why on earth would Germany and France have arranged the Minsk agreements in the first place? Are they all on the side of Russia? Can't follow your reasoning anymore.
I understand that the USA has no interest in ending this war soon because they have benefits in prolonging it. But in the end you will have to find a solution to a problem that was already there before Russia invaded Ukraine in the first place. I am not agreeing with the war or the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine but also not with the mingling ten years ago by the EU and the USA and that people in the east of Ukraine have been totally disregarded since then. It is not that Russia did not complain about this for many years. Still not an excuse for what they are doing now but western countries ignoring these concerns an waiving them away are guilty here as well. I am just practical here and looking at the facts and how they are played out.
And it surprises me that nobody is looking at peace negotiations here and can only think of pouring more weapons in this war. It is probably not in their interest. Does this help the Ukranian people, west or east?

Yes, really. That's exactly what happened.
Popular revolts happen even in democratic countries leading to government resignations. Why are you surprised that a revolt happend in a colony?
Moreover, Yanukovych, the puppet president, unharmed, decided to flee to russia (where else?)

With no stable Ukrainian government in place, russia seized the opportunity and annexed Crimea (breaking the promise made 10 years prior when they signed the Budapest memorandum)

Then separatists directed and financed by the russian security services, occupied several government buildings in Donbas (remember the more recent Capitol insurection, in the USA?)

After the Ukrainian government restored order, russia changed tactics and initiated the well know covert invasion, sending in soldiers with no insignia, weapons and starting the real war (thus not a civil war as you want to believe).

Read the Minsk agreement properly, and you will see that there was a very large autonomy granted to the eastern provinces, as long as the Ukraine integrity was secured and all russian troops withdrawn. That's what Merkel and Hollande helped mediating.
But russia, as usual, never kept its word, maintained its troops in the occupied territories, and now, expanded its occupation even further, through the so called "special operation".

Yep, what was a "civil war", now it's a only a "special operation". Get it?  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 04, 2023, 16:02

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.

russia has no right to have any say in re-drawing the borders of any sovereign country. Not Ukraine, not Georgia, not Moldova, not the Baltic countries, not Poland nor Romania. Not even Belarus.

There is and there was NO civil war, in eastern Ukraine. There were russian troops with no insignia and a bunch of russian provocateurs.
It was an invasion by an imperialist power from the very begining, when their puppet president was toppled and Ukraine stopped being a russian colony/vassal.

This is why the Minsk agreement explicitly asked for the withdrawal of foreign troops, point russia failed to comply with, because they claimed they had no troops there.
Instead, they cynically accused Ukraine for not compying with the agreement.  :o

And this is the propagada you sadly believe and propagate further  ::)

PS. Minsk agreement reminder:
9. Restoration of full control of the state border by the government of Ukraine.
10. Withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment and mercenaries


Edit: This old british comedy is doing a good job in explaining the russian "salami tactics" applied in Ukraine:
https://youtu.be/o861Ka9TtT4
Really Zero? An elected (you can question if the election was fair or not) was ousted by a revolt supported by the EU and the USA. Those powers openly mingled in the sovereign affairs of a country. Fine, the western part didn't want to deal with Russia anymore and wanted to join the West. I can acknowledge that, I live there as well. But there were surely people in the east that were not pleased with this coup/uprising. Don't they have a say in this? They were and are part of the same country as well. Or were they all held at gunpoint by the russians? C'mon Zero. That is not what happened. If so, why on earth would Germany and France have arranged the Minsk agreements in the first place? Are they all on the side of Russia? Can't follow your reasoning anymore.
I understand that the USA has no interest in ending this war soon because they have benefits in prolonging it. But in the end you will have to find a solution to a problem that was already there before Russia invaded Ukraine in the first place. I am not agreeing with the war or the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine but also not with the mingling ten years ago by the EU and the USA and that people in the east of Ukraine have been totally disregarded since then. It is not that Russia did not complain about this for many years. Still not an excuse for what they are doing now but western countries ignoring these concerns an waiving them away are guilty here as well. I am just practical here and looking at the facts and how they are played out.
And it surprises me that nobody is looking at peace negotiations here and can only think of pouring more weapons in this war. It is probably not in their interest. Does this help the Ukranian people, west or east?

Yes, really. That's exactly what happened.
Popular revolts happen even in democratic countries leading to government resignations. Why are you surprised that a revolt happend in a colony?
Moreover, Yanukovych, the puppet president, unharmed, decided to flee to russia (where else?)

With no stable Ukrainian government in place, russia seized the opportunity and annexed Crimea (breaking the promise made 10 years prior when they signed the Budapest memorandum)

Then separatists directed and financed by the russian security services, occupied several government buildings in Donbas (remember the more recent Capitol insurection, in the USA?)

After the Ukrainian government restored order, russia changed tactics and initiated the well know covert invasion, sending in soldiers with no insignia, weapons and starting the real war (thus not a civil war as you want to believe).

Read the Minsk agreement properly, and you will see that there was a very large autonomy granted to the eastern provinces, as long as the Ukraine integrity was secured and all russian troops withdrawn. That's what Merkel and Hollande helped mediating.
But russia, as usual, never kept its word, maintaining its troops in the occupied territories, and expanding its occupation even further, through the so called "special operation".

Yep, what was a "civil war", now it's a only a "special operation". Get it?  ::)


So true!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 04, 2023, 16:03
But russia, as usual, never kept its word, maintaining its troops in the occupied territories, and expanding its occupation even further, through the so called "special operation".
Any agreements with Russia are never even worth the paper on which they are written.
Of course, Russia did not withdraw its troops, because all separatism and terrorism in the Donbass rested only on Russian bayonets.
At the expense of Merkel and her role and goals, we still need to figure it out, she is Putin's agent.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 04, 2023, 16:28
Yes, but what about....
Here you are:
https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5 (https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+baghdad+after+bombing+by+usa&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjP7faYstL-AhX5y7sIHbxlAHYQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1536&bih=761&dpr=2.5)

7,186 civilians killed during "shock and awe". The US is more effective than Russia. It took them not even two months and Russia took about eight months to do it. Hats of for the USA.

I did not gave permission to mingle into this war as an European civilian nor did I gave permission to mingle into political affairs before their civil war ten years back.

You only prove my point.

Instead of being horrified by those attrocities, you justify them.
Through cheap whatabaoutism, you are rationalizing murder, torture, and human suffering happening, next door, right now, under your eyes

You have become "comfortably numb".

.. and it's not a civil war, but an egregious aggression of a sovereign country by an imperialist power.

You are the proof that propaganda is effective.

 :(


But seriously, why intervene in Yugoslavia and split the country up in regions where ethnic people are in the majority? It seems to work (although they still hate each other) but at least it's kind of stable.

The model of Yugoslavia did not work and is history. Precisely because cultures, traditions, ethnic groups and religions that did not fit together had - incorrectly - been united under one roof.

And from my point of view, this is exactly the reason why the Great Russian Empire does not work either and did not work in the past. Because many regions could not identify with the Russian soul. That's why the empire disintegrated. That is why Putin will not succeed in restoring it to its former greatness. And certainly not by attacking the countries that he would like to see as part of the great empire again. Now the rift is even deeper than it has ever been in history.
Exactly. Yugoslavia did not work, neither will Ukraine as a whole. That was my point. Split it up like we did with Yugoslavia. I am not saying the eastern part should be part of Russia but give it, it's own country, which then can relate to which ever country it likes, as well as the western part. That will be the end solution to this war and stop the unnecessary loss of lives.

This is impossible because:

2022
8:33 p.m.: Russian President Vladimir Putin called Ukraine a "historic Russian territory" in a televised address to the nation Monday night. The country is "an integral part of its own history," the head of state said. Ukraine has no tradition of statehood, he added. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, he said, put Russia in a difficult position. In its aftermath, he said, it was a mistake to allow Ukraine and other Soviet republics to become independent. "We gave these republics the right to leave the union without conditions," Putin said. "This is simply madness."

It is not about eastern Ukraine at all, but about all of Ukraine - and many other now independent states of the former Soviet Union.

In this respect, what you write cannot be a solution.

Unlike what Russia might say and want, in the end you have to come up with a solution to which all parties will agree. I am not sure if the river Dnjepr will be the dividing line but splitting up the country will most likely be the solution to end the conflict. The sooner the better, I guess. It has no sense pouring weapons into the conflict. Even if Ukraine, with help of NATO countries, will ever win, which is quite unlikely, you will still have resurgents in the east unless they were all slaughtered or expelled. But that would be ethnic cleansing or not? Each day that people do not move to the negotiation table more lives will be unnecessary lost. And not everybody has the same political agenda here.

The ethnic cleansing operations are already underway. Ukrainian children are being abducted and handed over to Russian families. Do you have children? Do you have the slightest idea what this means?

And, as can be seen from Putin's statement, the Dnieper is not something that is up for discussion, but the Soviet Union at the size it was before 1991.
Which was what Yugoslavia was - namely a potpourri of the most diverse ethnicities, cultures, traditions and religions. Which also then - as in Yugoslavia - did not work and will not work. As far as Yugoslavia is concerned, you have already admitted that yourself.
Wilm, you are not getting my point. Yugoslavia as one country did not work. Ukraine as one country will not work either. Split it up to solve it, is what I am saying (not make it part of Russia).
But I guess I am on my own here and everybody has to believe that Ukraine is one people, there was nothing going on before Russia invaded it and the EU and USA are only handling in the interest of humankind. So, enough then. Also, on this subject, I will not bother you anymore. We will see how things will evolve and if the pressure cooker will explode or someone will finally just takes the lit off to calm things down again. I hope people come to their senses.

I don't think you understand.

It is not in Russia's interest to accept the Donbas and Luhansk regions as autonomous regions, even if Ukraine would agree to it. From my point of view, Putin's words are clear enough. And so are the deeds.

Of course, I have also discussed this often enough in my circle of friends, that a referendum of these regions under international supervision could possibly have eliminated the problem.

But all Putin's statements and deeds clearly speak against the fact that this could contribute to conflict resolution. It would also do nothing to make Putin feel safe from NATO's approach, which is the argument he keeps using.

But that is precisely the paradox: Putin complains that NATO is getting closer. But in the past, NATO and the Warsaw Pact countries were right next to each other. Now, with Finland's accession, we are moving closer than ever to that state again. And this, although Finland never really wanted this.

Putin's invasion of Ukraine has achieved exactly the opposite of what he claimed to want.

Just as the Prague Spring led to the opposite of what Russia actually wanted. One could have learned from this example of history. Instead, they are deepening the rift with those they would have liked to have in Putin's new Greater Russian Empire. More and more enemies are being created in the former Soviet empire. The Ukrainians will never be able to forget what is currently happening for many many decades. The rift between Russia and Ukraine is now deeper than it has ever been.

And even if Putin "wins" this war (which is not a war but a military operation), there will never be peace there. Even less than it was in Yugoslavia!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 05, 2023, 03:51
I'll clear something up.

It is not in Russia's interest to accept the Donbas and Luhansk regions as autonomous regions, even if Ukraine would agree to it. From my point of view, Putin's words are clear enough. And so are the deeds.
Russia has already occupied and annexed these regions, 2/3 of these regions. And not only these areas, but also Zaporozhye, Kherson. The armed forces of Ukraine are trying to expel Russian fascists from Ukrainian soil.

Of course, I have also discussed this often enough in my circle of friends, that a referendum of these regions under international supervision could possibly have eliminated the problem.
Your problem is that you were very much deceived in Germany under Merkel. All that you were shown and told on TV were tricks, illusions, myths. But you were not told that these are tricks. You turned out to be a spectator in a theater in which a magician performs, but at the same time you were not told that these were tricks and you took everything for truth and reality.
I'll clarify a bit:
The illusionist in this case is Russia, or rather the KGB (FSB). For several decades, Russia has been preparing these tricks. You were shown in 2014 on TV people who seized buildings and rallied. With a pure soul and heart, you believed that before you are the inhabitants of eastern Ukraine, who are protesting against Ukraine, NATO and the EU, and that they want to live in Russia. I will reveal to you some of the secrets of these tricks:
1. In fact, those people were not citizens of Ukraine and not even Ukrainians by nationality. These people were Russian citizens who were brought to eastern Ukraine for several weeks and told to seize buildings and rally. These people beat their chests on cameras and shouted that they were residents of Ukraine and did not want to live in Ukraine. And you believed it all, because it was a well-executed trick.
2. As I said, Russians prepared all the events in Ukraine for a very long time. The goal of the Russians: the occupation of the Crimea (which they did in 2014). But, from a military point of view, Crimea is just an island that cannot be held without a land corridor. Open Google map of Ukraine. Find the city of Mariupol and find the city of Melitopol. Draw a line between these cities. This line is the land corridor to the Crimea. Further, in order to occupy the land corridor (which Russia has already done), it is necessary to occupy eastern Ukraine - Donetsk and Luhansk regions (which Russia did in 2014). In 2022, Russia occupied the land corridor, its troops moved towards each other from the Crimea, the Donetsk region and Russia. The city of Mariupol was the last fortress, and it fell.
3. As I already wrote, Russian fascists have been preparing for such a war for several decades. The KGB carried out preparatory work in the Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk regions. This work consisted in the fact that the criminal forces controlled by the KGB had power in this territory. All key positions in law enforcement and security agencies belonged to KGB agents. Therefore, when in 2014 Russia started all those rallies and began to import people from Russia for extras and riots, the Ukrainian police did not interfere. The police authorities did not allow the police to restore order. The police in eastern Ukraine were inactive, and even helped criminals, Russians and separatists.
4. Also, to keep the land corridor to the Crimea, the Russians need to occupy more than half of the territory of Ukraine, including the Dnieper River. What Russians are trying to do now.
Conclusions: After you have become aware of some of the secrets of Russian tricks, the question of a referendum should not even arise for you. Such problems are solved only by military means - by the destruction of Russian fascists on the territory of Ukraine. If this is not done, wars will begin in the world, NATO will be under threat, Taiwan will be occupied by China, Iran will attack Israel, a lot of European countries will be occupied by Russians.
I'm not talking about the fact that a referendum on granting autonomy to any region under the constitution of Ukraine is decided only by holding an all-Ukrainian referendum. No region in Ukraine has the right to conduct such referendums on its own.
You should already understand that the fascist countries started a war against the democratic world, and the Russian attack on Ukraine is just one of the links in this war. It is a mistake to think that Russia's war against Ukraine concerns only Ukraine.

But all Putin's statements and deeds clearly speak against the fact that this could contribute to conflict resolution. It would also do nothing to make Putin feel safe from NATO's approach, which is the argument he keeps using.
Link to NATO is just a pretext to start a war against democracy.

But that is precisely the paradox: Putin complains that NATO is getting closer. But in the past, NATO and the Warsaw Pact countries were right next to each other. Now, with Finland's accession, we are moving closer than ever to that state again. And this, although Finland never really wanted this.
Putin's invasion of Ukraine has achieved exactly the opposite of what he claimed to want.
This is all because Russia does not act independently in the war against democracy. There is also China, North Korea, Iran. Russia does only a certain part in this war. NATO is just an informational pretext, nothing more.

More and more enemies are being created in the former Soviet empire. The Ukrainians will never be able to forget what is currently happening for many many decades. The rift between Russia and Ukraine is now deeper than it has ever been.
Similar events and troubles have already happened to Ukrainians. The same happened 300 years ago, the same happened in 1917-1920 and 1940-1960. If the Russians occupy Ukraine, they will shoot everyone who is against the Russians, they will change the history in the textbooks. Russia, for the entire time of its existence, has only been doing what is rewriting history for itself. All Russian history in Russian textbooks is a lie.

And even if Putin "wins" this war
If Trump does not come to power in the US, the Russians will not win this war. But now they have success, the Ukrainian Crimea has been occupied, and the east and southeast of Ukraine have been occupied.
This is a war against democracy, Ukraine needs a lot of weapons, demand from your governments to supply F-16 to Ukraine.

___
Wilm, if I did not write something clearly in English, write, and I will try to write more clearly.
____

Now about the demography in the Donetsk region. Lest you think that only Russians live there who want to live in Russia.

"At the 2001 Ukrainian National Census, the ethnic groups within the Donetsk Oblast were: Ukrainians – 2,744,100 (56.9%), Russians – 1,844,400 (38.2%), Pontic Greeks – 77,500 (1.6%), Belarusians – 44,500 (0.9%), others (2.3%)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_Oblast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_Oblast)

As you can see, even in the Donetsk region Russians are a minority by nationality.
__________
I also forgot to write. Why do Russians need Crimea? In military terms, Crimea is a threat to the entire Mediterranean. While in the Crimea, the Russians can strike with missiles in a lot of countries. Crimea also allows you to control the Black Sea militarily.
The occupation and annexation of Ukrainian territories is the beginning of the war of fascist and terrorist countries against democracy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 05, 2023, 04:56
2/3 of the population of Russia (if not all 90%) support Putin and the killing of Ukrainians. Even on this forum there are a lot of stockers from Russia, but none of them condemned the actions of Russia in this forum. I think that Russian stockers should be banned from all stocks so that they do not finance the terrorist and fascist regime.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on May 05, 2023, 05:32
I'll clear something up.
......

Your problem is that you were very much deceived in Germany under Merkel. All that you were shown and told on TV were tricks, illusions, myths. But you were not told that these are tricks. You turned out to be a spectator in a theater in which a magician performs, but at the same time you were not told that these were tricks and you took everything for truth and reality.


I´ll clear something up too.

When discussing such sensitive issues, one should refrain from such condescending and belittling remarks.

Even in Germany, even under Merkel, we have access to international media  ;).
As I assess and know Wilm, he gets his information not only from ZDF and ARD.
 
I would be interested to know where you get your Merkel phobia from and what top-secret information and sources you have about her Russian agent life?



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 05, 2023, 05:38
When discussing such sensitive issues, one should refrain from such condescending and belittling remarks.
 
I would be interested to know where you get your Merkel phobia from and what top-secret information and sources you have about her Russian agent life?
You misunderstood me, I do not want to offend or insult Wilm in any way. I just wrote what Wilm, in my opinion, did not know and did not guess.
I wrote a lot about Merkel in this topic, I have nothing more to add to what has been written.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 05, 2023, 05:43
Old news, a few weeks old.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/world/asia/russia-belgorod-bomb.html?searchResultPosition=2 (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/world/asia/russia-belgorod-bomb.html?searchResultPosition=2)

There is information that the Russians planned to bomb houses in their city. The goal was to accuse Ukraine of this act of terrorism.
Terrorist country = terrorist methods.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 05, 2023, 11:55
Old news, a few weeks old.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/world/asia/russia-belgorod-bomb.html?searchResultPosition=2 (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/world/asia/russia-belgorod-bomb.html?searchResultPosition=2)

There is information that the Russians planned to bomb houses in their city. The goal was to accuse Ukraine of this act of terrorism.
Terrorist country = terrorist methods.

You mean like a faked drone attack on The Kremlin at 2AM, that someone just happened to be recording? And then the so called bombs, never got close to the building and looked like fireworks? Then accused the Ukraine and a day later the US, saying it was a plot to kill Putin. Something I learned from this: Although the Kremlin is the president's official residence, Putin doesn't actually live there.

False Flag attack.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 05, 2023, 12:13
Armed forces of Ukraine assault entrenchments with Russian occupiers near the city of Bakhmut. Assault was successful. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6zyFwpGZw&t=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6zyFwpGZw&t=1)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 05, 2023, 12:18
Old news, a few weeks old.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/world/asia/russia-belgorod-bomb.html?searchResultPosition=2 (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/21/world/asia/russia-belgorod-bomb.html?searchResultPosition=2)

There is information that the Russians planned to bomb houses in their city. The goal was to accuse Ukraine of this act of terrorism.
Terrorist country = terrorist methods.

You mean like a faked drone attack on The Kremlin at 2AM, that someone just happened to be recording? And then the so called bombs, never got close to the building and looked like fireworks? Then accused the Ukraine and a day later the US, saying it was a plot to kill Putin. Something I learned from this: Although the Kremlin is the president's official residence, Putin doesn't actually live there.

False Flag attack.
No, I meant the dropping of aerial bombs by a Russian aircraft on the Russian city of Belgorod. Bombs fell next to high-rise buildings. I have provided a link to the article.
As for the drones and the Kremlin tower, I’ll say right away that no one attempted on Putin there. Putin himself has been living in a bunker for a year now and never visits the Kremlin. Those Putins who are shown on TV are his counterparts, they are not real.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 05, 2023, 13:36
Armed forces of Ukraine assault entrenchments with Russian occupiers near the city of Bakhmut. Assault was successful. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6zyFwpGZw&t=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6zyFwpGZw&t=1)

Wow, this is hard to watch, let alone be there, facing death every second...

True heroes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 05, 2023, 14:28
Yesterday it was reported that on 09 May in very many Russian cities traditionally military parades are held. Which have now been canceled - with the explanation of security concerns because of the Kremlin-close drones.

It is therefore quite conceivable that Russia has directed the drones there itself in order to distract from the fact that there is simply no material available for military maneuvers. Of course, the population must not be aware of this. Just a thought...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 05, 2023, 14:32
I'll clear something up.


___
Wilm, if I did not write something clearly in English, write, and I will try to write more clearly.
____

No, in this case I completely understood the content of your remarks.

I don't agree with you on everything, but there were some interesting aspects.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 05, 2023, 14:47
Armed forces of Ukraine assault entrenchments with Russian occupiers near the city of Bakhmut. Assault was successful. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6zyFwpGZw&t=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA6zyFwpGZw&t=1)

Wow, this is hard to watch, let alone be there, facing death every second...

True heroes!
This video of the battle is not yet very risky, here the soldiers acted skillfully, so there were no losses.
Watch this video, there one soldier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine repels the attack of a Russian company + an infantry fighting vehicle. How he survived I don't even know. Rambo. The video is an analysis of every second of his fight, they analyze it with him. There are English subtitles. According to such videos, then feature films about the heroism of Ukrainians should be shot in Hollywood.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUX_1B0zUt0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUX_1B0zUt0)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 05, 2023, 18:51
What a courageous defense, indeed!

But I also liked the discipline of that platoon on your first clip, and the great commander, who made sure the risks are minimized (while still facing death every second), and at the same time pushed his team ahead, relentlessly.
I have the feeling that this is how the war is won, rather than with wreckless Rambos and Hollywood-type superheroes.

Slava Ukraini!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on May 05, 2023, 22:53

The russian empire is still in place with its colonial and imperialist agenda, dominating 190 ethnic groups (Tatars, Chechens, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Avars, Dargins, Kazakhs, etc...), many of which are still living in well defined regions, despite the aggressive ethnic cleansing, deportation and russification policies they were subject to.

As I recall Pequot, Mohegan, Massachusetts...were just a few of those that were completely extinct.

I wonder how are the rest doing nowadays and when are they getting their land back ?

I mean 56 millions people killed ( more than whole Europe population at the time ) is also not a thing you can just wipe under the carpet. Killing 90% of homeland population and stealing their land is everything but something to ignore.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on May 05, 2023, 23:08

russia has no right to have any say in re-drawing the borders of any sovereign country. Not Ukraine, not Georgia, not Moldova, not the Baltic countries, not Poland nor Romania. Not even Belarus.


Now explain to me what gave US right to do exactly the same what Russia is doing and forced them with and invasion to give up Kosovo ?

How was that not re-drawing the borders and what is the difference between Kosovo being stolen from Serbia and Russia trying to do the same ?

In short, you can't , there is no difference and no google will help you explain something you don't know crap about to someone that knows everything about it.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 06, 2023, 02:12
How was that not re-drawing the borders and what is the difference between Kosovo being stolen from Serbia and Russia trying to do the same ?
The difference is huge. You are comparing uncomparable events. You don't seem to understand politics and history at all. What country are you from?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 06, 2023, 02:15

The russian empire is still in place with its colonial and imperialist agenda, dominating 190 ethnic groups (Tatars, Chechens, Bashkirs, Chuvash, Avars, Dargins, Kazakhs, etc...), many of which are still living in well defined regions, despite the aggressive ethnic cleansing, deportation and russification policies they were subject to.

As I recall Pequot, Mohegan, Massachusetts...were just a few of those that were completely extinct.

I wonder how are the rest doing nowadays and when are they getting their land back ?

I mean 56 millions people killed ( more than whole Europe population at the time ) is also not a thing you can just wipe under the carpet. Killing 90% of homeland population and stealing their land is everything but something to ignore.
Why don't you give examples of anything before the common era? When you write, indicate at least a century about which you write. I understand that mentally you live in the Middle Ages, and live according to the laws of the barbarians. But open your window and look at the calendar and you will know that it is the 21st century on planet Earth.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 06, 2023, 03:34
What a courageous defense, indeed!

But I also liked the discipline of that platoon on your first clip, and the great commander, who made sure the risks are minimized (while still facing death every second), and at the same time pushed his team ahead, relentlessly.
I have the feeling that this is how the war is won, rather than with wreckless Rambos and Hollywood-type superheroes.

Slava Ukraini!
Glory to the heroes! Death enemies!

After this interview, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valerii Zaluzhnyi personally met with this hero, awarded him a medal and presented him with an M4 automatic rifle (as the soldier wanted).
(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/1/b/1b4ff69------.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on May 06, 2023, 04:22
2/3 of the population of Russia (if not all 90%) support Putin and the killing of Ukrainians.
It looks like you took these figures from "Russian propaganda"). In fact, in my environment, I see  absolutely the opposite picture. Of course, my scientific environment is very specific, but nevertheless, I observe a different situation from the inside. None of my close friends and relatives are happy with the current situation and human deaths.

I think that Russian stockers should be banned from all stocks so that they do not finance the terrorist and fascist regime.
Could it be more effective to ban Biden for buying Russian uranium? The share of Russia in the supply of uranium for the needs of the US nuclear power industry is about 20%. This is not comparable to the small money from taxes on Russian stockers (6% tax on the self-employed, which goes to the regional budget at the place of residence).

I have spoken.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 06, 2023, 06:05
2/3 of the population of Russia (if not all 90%) support Putin and the killing of Ukrainians.
It looks like you took these figures from "Russian propaganda"). In fact, in my environment, I see  absolutely the opposite picture. Of course, my scientific environment is very specific, but nevertheless, I observe a different situation from the inside. None of my close friends and relatives are happy with the current situation and human deaths.

I think that Russian stockers should be banned from all stocks so that they do not finance the terrorist and fascist regime.
Could it be more effective to ban Biden for buying Russian uranium? The share of Russia in the supply of uranium for the needs of the US nuclear power industry is about 20%. This is not comparable to the small money from taxes on Russian stockers (6% tax on the self-employed, which goes to the regional budget at the place of residence).

I have spoken.
Hmm.
1. Whose Crimea?
2. Should the Russian Empire continue to exist within today's borders? Or do oppressed peoples have the right to secede and create their own nation-states?
3. Should all war criminals who kill Ukrainians or help them be punished?
4. Should Russia withdraw its troops from Ukraine, Crimea, Donbass?
5. Should Russia pay reparations to Ukraine and Ukrainians for those killed, for destroyed cities, destroyed ecology and other losses?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 06, 2023, 11:48
We have a DHL parcel carrier. My favorite parcel carrier. He is Russian, comes from the region north of Moscow and is a very likeable, friendly and hardworking young man.
About 2 months ago he did not come alone, but had a new employee with him, whom he had to train. It turned out in the conversation that the young man was from Ukraine.

I asked them both if there were any problems between them. They laughed and hugged each other to prove that there were no problems.

These are pictures that I would like to see in the media. Maybe then it would become clear that not a people, but often only parts of a people are the problem.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 06, 2023, 15:19
We were speaking of Fox News earlier on this thread. This has been in the news:

"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988 (https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988)

Quote
Canadian regulators have launched a public consultation on calls to ban Fox News from cable packages after receiving complaints saying the network has aired hateful content about LGBTQ2S+ people.

The public consultation, which began earlier this month, was triggered by an open letter from advocacy group Egale Canada.

"People in Canada deserve to know that the news broadcast on Canadian airwaves is reliable and objective, and marginalized groups must be protected from malicious propaganda," the group's executive director Helen Kennedy wrote.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 06, 2023, 15:53
We have a DHL parcel carrier. My favorite parcel carrier. He is Russian, comes from the region north of Moscow and is a very likeable, friendly and hardworking young man.
About 2 months ago he did not come alone, but had a new employee with him, whom he had to train. It turned out in the conversation that the young man was from Ukraine.

I asked them both if there were any problems between them. They laughed and hugged each other to prove that there were no problems.

These are pictures that I would like to see in the media. Maybe then it would become clear that not a people, but often only parts of a people are the problem.
In fact, there is nothing good in this story. Ukraine is not at war with Putin, Ukraine is at war with the Russian people. Not Putin came to Ukraine, and not Putin kills Ukrainian women and children. It is the Russian people who kill Ukrainians.
As for that young man from Ukraine, ask him how he was able to leave Ukraine. Now in Ukraine there is a general mobilization, and people aged 18 to 60 do not have the right to cross the border, it is a criminal offense. So, this young man, not only is he hiding from mobilization, is not defending his country, but he is also hugging Russians. It's a shame.  :-[
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 06, 2023, 16:15
"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"
Great news! This channel is the mouthpiece of Russian propaganda in America, and not only Russian. It would be even better if this channel were closed in the US as well.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 06, 2023, 17:07
"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"
Great news! This channel is the mouthpiece of Russian propaganda in America, and not only Russian. It would be even better if this channel were closed in the US as well.

Not sure whether they can ban it in America because of the USA 1st Amendment (where the government cannot interfere with the expression of free speech, free press, etc), which we discussed earlier. Canada, of course, does not have that first amendment.

But depending on how much income Fox News makes from Canada, it may make them more accountable. Like I said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on May 06, 2023, 17:20
2/3 of the population of Russia (if not all 90%) support Putin and the killing of Ukrainians.
It looks like you took these figures from "Russian propaganda"). In fact, in my environment, I see  absolutely the opposite picture. Of course, my scientific environment is very specific, but nevertheless, I observe a different situation from the inside. None of my close friends and relatives are happy with the current situation and human deaths.

I think that Russian stockers should be banned from all stocks so that they do not finance the terrorist and fascist regime.
Could it be more effective to ban Biden for buying Russian uranium? The share of Russia in the supply of uranium for the needs of the US nuclear power industry is about 20%. This is not comparable to the small money from taxes on Russian stockers (6% tax on the self-employed, which goes to the regional budget at the place of residence).

I have spoken.

Thank you, Zastavkin, for reporting here. I suppose, it´s not easy.

First of all, I believe your assessment from your personal experience.

But if I were Russian and against the war, I would do everything I could to get that across to the rest of the world. I know that this is not easy.

But you yourself are able to post here. And nothing like that happens from others before. Nada, Nothing. You are the only known russian here who speaks out against the war.
 
You have a crappy reputation now. If I'm honest, I don't want to bump into Russians on vacation in Turkey or Thailand for example.

Recently I saw a report in which it turned out that most Russian men leave the country not because they are against Putin or the war, but rather because they have no desire to fight in the war personally.

I would be happy if you or others convince me of the opposite.

But at the moment I can't help feeling that the majority of the Russian population is in favor of the war and considers it justified. This has nothing to do with russian propaganda.












Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 07, 2023, 02:29
But if I were Russian and against the war, I would do everything I could to get that across to the rest of the world. I know that this is not easy.
There are no normal or "good" Russians, it's a myth that they exist. All these "good" Russians fail at the 5 questions I asked above. This is a test of a person's democracy. Almost all Russians are happy with Putin's results, but some just don't like the methods. This is the so-called "opposition" there.
Any normal person - a citizen of the Russian Federation, regardless of his nationality, would have either left a fascist country a long time ago or joined partisans and blew up military trains, fuel depots, warehouses with fuel, ammunition, or would have joined the Ukrainian army and fought on the battlefield with the Russian fascism. By the way, not much, but there are Russians who left Russia and joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 07, 2023, 02:35
"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"
Great news! This channel is the mouthpiece of Russian propaganda in America, and not only Russian. It would be even better if this channel were closed in the US as well.

Not sure whether they can ban it in America because of the USA 1st Amendment (where the government cannot interfere with the expression of free speech, free press, etc), which we discussed earlier. Canada, of course, does not have that first amendment.

But depending on how much income Fox News makes from Canada, it may make them more accountable. Like I said, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
If a channel promotes fascism, violence, homophobia, racism, then how can a constitution protect such a channel from justice?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 07, 2023, 05:57
How artificial intelligence sees Moscow.  8)
(https://i.ibb.co/dpD2VR3/Danko-Moscow-Kremlin-in-post-apocalyptic-ruins-c38e6c41-5fcd-45e1-a424-6ff985025d46.webp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 07, 2023, 15:01
But if I were Russian and against the war, I would do everything I could to get that across to the rest of the world. I know that this is not easy.
There are no normal or "good" Russians, it's a myth that they exist. All these "good" Russians fail at the 5 questions I asked above. This is a test of a person's democracy. Almost all Russians are happy with Putin's results, but some just don't like the methods. This is the so-called "opposition" there.
Any normal person - a citizen of the Russian Federation, regardless of his nationality, would have either left a fascist country a long time ago or joined partisans and blew up military trains, fuel depots, warehouses with fuel, ammunition, or would have joined the Ukrainian army and fought on the battlefield with the Russian fascism. By the way, not much, but there are Russians who left Russia and joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

stocker2014:Sorry, but the world is not like that! I hate this pigeonholing, because it is exactly what is not true.Not all Germans are *, not all soccer fans are hooligans, not all US Americans are fat and not all Russians are monsters. And not all Ukrainians are nice people either.I am very sure that a great many people in Russia would wish with all their hearts that the war in Ukraine had never taken place.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on May 07, 2023, 15:28
But if I were Russian and against the war, I would do everything I could to get that across to the rest of the world. I know that this is not easy.
There are no normal or "good" Russians, it's a myth that they exist. All these "good" Russians fail at the 5 questions I asked above. This is a test of a person's democracy. Almost all Russians are happy with Putin's results, but some just don't like the methods. This is the so-called "opposition" there.
Any normal person - a citizen of the Russian Federation, regardless of his nationality, would have either left a fascist country a long time ago or joined partisans and blew up military trains, fuel depots, warehouses with fuel, ammunition, or would have joined the Ukrainian army and fought on the battlefield with the Russian fascism. By the way, not much, but there are Russians who left Russia and joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

stocker2014:Sorry, but the world is not like that! I hate this pigeonholing, because it is exactly what is not true.Not all Germans are *, not all soccer fans are hooligans, not all US Americans are fat and not all Russians are monsters. And not all Ukrainians are nice people either.I am very sure that a great many people in Russia would wish with all their hearts that the war in Ukraine had never taken place.

Wilm, in principle I'm right there with you - concerning other nationalities  ;)

I would still like to know what makes Russians tick.

I think that none of us plans to travel to Russia to meet Russians. But you don't have to go that far.
Russians have rediscovered their love of travel during the war. In Thailand, Turkey, Sri Lanka, UAE and Egypt, Russian tourist numbers are almost at normal levels.
Indonesia is probably just overrun, and there they have restricted visas for Russians again.

Here 2 quotations from Indonesian newspapers:

"In Bali, 22,500 Russians arrived in January 2023, making them the second most frequent visitors after Australians. Some of them are a nuisance in their own right. They get drunk and make a ruckus, dress inappropriately for temple visits, post pictures on social media of themselves showing their bare behinds at holy sites, ride motorcycles in shorts and T-shirts, fall and cause traffic accidents."

"When we receive reports of foreigners behaving badly, they are almost always Russians," a local police officer in the city of Kuta told CNN, declining to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue."

And on the start of the war from Egypt from ukrainian tourist:

"On the first day of the war, "in the hotel you could see exactly who was from Ukraine and who was from Russia," Volodimir Bilov said. "The Ukrainians were crying, sitting by the phone, following news, trying to contact family. The Russians, on the other hand, were in high spirits. They were singing, dancing and enjoying life. I heard from them things like: Our army will show the Ukrainians. Ukraine will soon be ours. I am very angry with Russia and with the Russians. I will never forgive them, even my son will not forgive them."


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 07, 2023, 16:06
But if I were Russian and against the war, I would do everything I could to get that across to the rest of the world. I know that this is not easy.
There are no normal or "good" Russians, it's a myth that they exist. All these "good" Russians fail at the 5 questions I asked above. This is a test of a person's democracy. Almost all Russians are happy with Putin's results, but some just don't like the methods. This is the so-called "opposition" there.
Any normal person - a citizen of the Russian Federation, regardless of his nationality, would have either left a fascist country a long time ago or joined partisans and blew up military trains, fuel depots, warehouses with fuel, ammunition, or would have joined the Ukrainian army and fought on the battlefield with the Russian fascism. By the way, not much, but there are Russians who left Russia and joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

stocker2014:Sorry, but the world is not like that! I hate this pigeonholing, because it is exactly what is not true.Not all Germans are *, not all soccer fans are hooligans, not all US Americans are fat and not all Russians are monsters. And not all Ukrainians are nice people either.I am very sure that a great many people in Russia would wish with all their hearts that the war in Ukraine had never taken place.

Wilm, in principle I'm right there with you - concerning other nationalities  ;)

I would still like to know what makes Russians tick.

I think that none of us plans to travel to Russia to meet Russians. But you don't have to go that far.
Russians have rediscovered their love of travel during the war. In Thailand, Turkey, Sri Lanka, UAE and Egypt, Russian tourist numbers are almost at normal levels.
Indonesia is probably just overrun, and there they have restricted visas for Russians again.

Here 2 quotations from Indonesian newspapers:

"In Bali, 22,500 Russians arrived in January 2023, making them the second most frequent visitors after Australians. Some of them are a nuisance in their own right. They get drunk and make a ruckus, dress inappropriately for temple visits, post pictures on social media of themselves showing their bare behinds at holy sites, ride motorcycles in shorts and T-shirts, fall and cause traffic accidents."

"When we receive reports of foreigners behaving badly, they are almost always Russians," a local police officer in the city of Kuta told CNN, declining to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue."

And on the start of the war from Egypt from ukrainian tourist:

"On the first day of the war, "in the hotel you could see exactly who was from Ukraine and who was from Russia," Volodimir Bilov said. "The Ukrainians were crying, sitting by the phone, following news, trying to contact family. The Russians, on the other hand, were in high spirits. They were singing, dancing and enjoying life. I heard from them things like: Our army will show the Ukrainians. Ukraine will soon be ours. I am very angry with Russia and with the Russians. I will never forgive them, even my son will not forgive them."

Ralf, I know the negative reports about the behavior of Russian tourists also from different countries.

I have no idea how it works in Russia. But I assume that the wealthy Russians are the problematic clientele. And that those are the very Russians who can afford to travel and be arrogant because they have become wealthy by Putin's grace. But that certainly doesn't apply across the board to all Russians - that's what I was trying to say.

Basically, however, I agree with you: where I was, the Russians who were also there left a very bad image and ensured a miserable perception of the Russians in the region.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 07, 2023, 16:59
But if I were Russian and against the war, I would do everything I could to get that across to the rest of the world. I know that this is not easy.
There are no normal or "good" Russians, it's a myth that they exist. All these "good" Russians fail at the 5 questions I asked above. This is a test of a person's democracy. Almost all Russians are happy with Putin's results, but some just don't like the methods. This is the so-called "opposition" there.
Any normal person - a citizen of the Russian Federation, regardless of his nationality, would have either left a fascist country a long time ago or joined partisans and blew up military trains, fuel depots, warehouses with fuel, ammunition, or would have joined the Ukrainian army and fought on the battlefield with the Russian fascism. By the way, not much, but there are Russians who left Russia and joined the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

stocker2014:Sorry, but the world is not like that! I hate this pigeonholing, because it is exactly what is not true.Not all Germans are *, not all soccer fans are hooligans, not all US Americans are fat and not all Russians are monsters. And not all Ukrainians are nice people either.I am very sure that a great many people in Russia would wish with all their hearts that the war in Ukraine had never taken place.
You are an idealist. And that's not bad.
I also wrote that there are some Russians who are normal. You can discuss specific good friends or acquaintances, or you can talk about the nation in general. So the Russian nation have big problems, and the problems have long been. They are slaves in their mentality, they always need a king, they do not need democracy, they do not understand it and do not want it. You can often deal with a single Russian, but when they are combined, they are a threat to other nations and countries. The Russian empire must be liquidated, and this will benefit the Russians in the first place.
In Russia, the victory of democratic forces is not possible, no one will support them there. Only fascism wins in Russia. Yes, there is an "opposition" in Russia, but it is not legitimate there, it does not have the support of the people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 08, 2023, 03:49
But that certainly doesn't apply across the board to all Russians - that's what I was trying to say.
Russia as it is.

(https://apostrophe.ua/uploads/23102019/4074c67fbca38723efda4911e9f2bd45.jpg)

(https://apostrophe.ua/uploads/23102019/9def09fb7063c0610a48f924ed962c44.jpg)

(https://apostrophe.ua/uploads/23102019/9f527552e78c235d561a86a4fa8ef314.jpg)

(https://replyua.net/uploads/posts/2017-11/1512018882_231.jpg)

(https://i.obozrevatel.com/2019/7/18/19.jpg?size=1944x924)

(https://i.obozrevatel.com/gallery/2019/7/18/20.jpg)

(https://i.obozrevatel.com/gallery/2019/7/18/09.jpg)

(https://i.obozrevatel.com/gallery/2019/7/18/421.jpg)

(https://cn13.nevsedoma.com.ua/photo/155/2/daunshig.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 08, 2023, 04:08
In Russia, of course, there was a lot of money, from the trade in oil, gas, drugs, weapons. But all the money either went into the pocket of Putin and the Russian oligarchs, or was spent on the war. As a result, a Russian person has nothing to lose, he lives below the poverty line. Well, as I already wrote, in Russia there are only two cities in which luxury is maintained for advertising and lies, but in other cities everything is exactly as in the photo.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on May 08, 2023, 07:18
Well, as I already wrote, in Russia there are only two cities in which luxury is maintained for advertising and lies, but in other cities everything is exactly as in the photo.
Exactly!))
My siberian provincial town Novosibirsk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8zk_evi-W8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8zk_evi-W8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 08, 2023, 13:37
Bakhmut, Ukraine.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine destroy the machine-gun crew of Russian fascists in a high-rise building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvmWe5ovVRk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvmWe5ovVRk)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 08, 2023, 21:23
There's a new documentary coming out about Ukraine by Bernard-Henri Lévy.

I like what he said about 'true bravery' in this interview on the weekend with CNN's Fareed Zakaria.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/07/exp-gps-bernard-henri-lvy-ukraine-documentary-050710aseg1-cnn-world.cnn
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 09, 2023, 03:50
Today in Moscow there is a victory parade of Russian fascists, murderers and war criminals. These are all elements of Russian propaganda. Fascists beat their chests and shout to the whole world that they are not fascists. No one came to this parade from the civilized countries of the world.
Putin is not real there, it is his double.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SiXw-W9wGA (ftp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SiXw-W9wGA)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 09, 2023, 10:25
See below what they celebrate.

And let me reiterate that WWII didn't end in 1945, but in 1989, when its consequences were nullified and the former soviet colonies in Eastern Europe regained their freedom.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 09, 2023, 11:13
And let me reiterate that WWII didn't end in 1945, but in 1989, when its consequences were nullified and the former soviet colonies in Eastern Europe regained their freedom.
+100
The victory over fascism has nothing to do with Russia. Russia, as it was a fascist country, has remained so.
Therefore, now there is still no victory over fascism, the war is going on with fascist Russia. In Russia, May 9 is the day of cult and propaganda.
As for the dates, May 9th is Europe Day in the EU. May 8 is the day of remembrance and reconciliation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 10, 2023, 02:04
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fvt1Gk2WwBkVB3l?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 10, 2023, 03:09
More about May 9 in Russia. Putin in Russia made a cult of May 9 because the Russian people have nothing more to be proud of, nothing at all. But on May 9 (once a year) they are proud that their grandfathers fought and occupied foreign countries. A Russian person does not think about, or no longer remembers, that the fascist regime in the USSR did not think about the lives of these Russians themselves, and threw these Russians without weapons under tanks, machine guns, only in order to win back some territory by some date. Reclaim exactly by a certain date (that was the command). The question of normal preparation for an offensive and saving the lives of Russians never stood in the USSR. For Russia, May 9 should not be the day of victory, but the day of the end of the tragedy and their genocide. This day for Russians should be a day of remembrance and mourning.
The Russians never understood that they lived before and live now in a fascist country. As a result, the Russians have long since become fascists.
What is a source of pride for the Russians: the occupation of the Ukrainian Crimea, the occupation of the eastern regions of Ukraine, the murders of women and children in Ukraine. Everything, Russians are not proud of anything anymore. The Russians only want to occupy, kill and rob. They are a terrible nation.
I'm not talking about the fact that many peoples and countries fought in World War II. Much, if not all, the Ukrainians did to win. And without US military assistance, the war would not have ended with the defeat of the Nazi coalition. But only in Russia on May 9 they drink vodka and arrange a cult from a global tragedy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 11, 2023, 06:57
In recent decades, anti-American sentiments have been very strong in the EU. As I understand it, France and Germany are promoting them. Obviously, they are being promoted not without the help of the KGB (FSB) and Russian trolls. The meaning of these sentiments is that allegedly: the EU should be independent of the United States (is the EU dependent?), the EU does not need multiculturalism, there should be some kind of second European "NATO". These are all very bad trends, as a result of these sentiments, many citizens of the eastern EU countries accuse the US of Russia attacking Ukraine and that the US is to blame for everything. What should be done with this crap. Because a position based on the fact that Russia is like a good country, and the US is a bad country, will not lead the EU to anything good.
Yes, the US is the guarantor of the Budapest Memorandum, and I don't understand why American soldiers are not fighting in Ukraine. Yes, the US should not have allowed the Russians to boost their economy, which led to the strengthening of their fascist regime. But, all this should be understood by the citizens of the EU, and not stupidly blame the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 11, 2023, 08:38
In recent decades, anti-American sentiments have been very strong in the EU. As I understand it, France and Germany are promoting them. Obviously, they are being promoted not without the help of the KGB (FSB) and Russian trolls. The meaning of these sentiments is that allegedly: the EU should be independent of the United States (is the EU dependent?), the EU does not need multiculturalism, there should be some kind of second European "NATO". These are all very bad trends, as a result of these sentiments, many citizens of the eastern EU countries accuse the US of Russia attacking Ukraine and that the US is to blame for everything. What should be done with this crap. Because a position based on the fact that Russia is like a good country, and the US is a bad country, will not lead the EU to anything good.
Yes, the US is the guarantor of the Budapest Memorandum, and I don't understand why American soldiers are not fighting in Ukraine. Yes, the US should not have allowed the Russians to boost their economy, which led to the strengthening of their fascist regime. But, all this should be understood by the citizens of the EU, and not stupidly blame the United States.

To be honest the US made many mistakes (especially during the Trump administration, but not only) promoting an aggressive and arrogant "American exceptionalism" and isolationism.

When that gets combined with a Marxism resurgence, by a new generation who never experienced its absurdity, but believes that through Marxism they discovered the sliced bread and the hot water ::), you end up with anti-capitalism translated into anti-Americanism.

Of course, the state owned troll farm in sankt petersburg is exploiting and amplifying this sentiment to justify their sick revisionist, imperialist and colonial ambitions.

What matters is that in this matter the US (for now), UK, Canada, Australia and a large majority of the EU (bar Hungary and Austria) are on the right side of the history.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 11, 2023, 12:40
In recent decades, anti-American sentiments have been very strong in the EU. As I understand it, France and Germany are promoting them. Obviously, they are being promoted not without the help of the KGB (FSB) and Russian trolls. The meaning of these sentiments is that allegedly: the EU should be independent of the United States (is the EU dependent?), the EU does not need multiculturalism, there should be some kind of second European "NATO". These are all very bad trends, as a result of these sentiments, many citizens of the eastern EU countries accuse the US of Russia attacking Ukraine and that the US is to blame for everything. What should be done with this crap. Because a position based on the fact that Russia is like a good country, and the US is a bad country, will not lead the EU to anything good.
Yes, the US is the guarantor of the Budapest Memorandum, and I don't understand why American soldiers are not fighting in Ukraine. Yes, the US should not have allowed the Russians to boost their economy, which led to the strengthening of their fascist regime. But, all this should be understood by the citizens of the EU, and not stupidly blame the United States.

Yes, there are these tendencies in parts of the population here in Germany. I don't know exactly how it is in other EU countries - I have too little insight for that. But I doubt that it is only in Germany and France.

The statement that this is promoted in Germany is not generally true.

From the camp of Corona opponents and deniers and conspiracy theorists, however, gather many people who also formulate anti-Americanisms and pro-Russian ideas. It is an absolute minority as far as I know, but, yes, there are these groups of people.

There are also other unfortunate facts.

On May 9, there was a meeting at the Russian Embassy in Berlin.
""To commemorate the Soviet Union's victory in the war of aggression instigated by Nazi Germany, the ambassador of the Russian Federation, Sergei Netshev, hosted a reception at the Russian Embassy," reads the first sentence of the article."" So reads an article in the Berliner Zeitung.

Who was there?

The German ex-Chancellor and Putin-friend Gerhard Schröder and his wife, two leading politicians of the AfD - a party from the far right wing and a leading politician of "Die Linke", a party from the far left wing. At least that's what the article says.

As I noted earlier: Democracy is in danger and the right and left political wings are the cause of it.

What Zero writes is also correct. "America First" has not gone over well everywhere in Germany.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 12, 2023, 02:14
To be honest the US made many mistakes (especially during the Trump administration, but not only) promoting an aggressive and arrogant "American exceptionalism" and isolationism.
And you can write more details here. What do you specifically mean. The same Trump just demanded large deductions of money from the EU countries. The demands are fair, why should the US cover 70% of NATO's expenses? Who needs NATO the most - the US or European countries?
If there is no NATO, or the United States leaves it, the Russian occupation of Europe is a matter of several years.

What matters is that in this matter the US (for now), UK, Canada, Australia and a large majority of the EU (bar Hungary and Austria) are on the right side of the history.
At the expense of France and Germany, I'm not very sure. And I'm not sure about Italy either.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 12, 2023, 02:18
Yes, there are these tendencies in parts of the population here in Germany.
What percentage of the population in Germany has claims against the United States, wants to get away from the United States, and believes that the United States is to blame for the war in Ukraine?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 12, 2023, 02:58
I had forgotten to write that Egon Krenz was also present at this meeting in the Russian Embassy. Krenz was the direct successor of Erich Honncker as Chairman of the Council of State of the GDR and Secretary General of the SED. Krenz advocated the bloody suppression of the student uprising in Beijing. He was sentenced to prison for firing on people fleeing the GDR to the FRG. Krenz called for an end to sanctions against Russia and spoke out against the supply of weapons to Ukraine.

This morning I also read an article about Gloria von Thurn und Taxis, a prominent millionaire German aristocrat who regrets that the monarchy was abolished in Germany.
She is very conservative, an ardent supporter of the Catholic Church, an opponent of abortion, a denier of man-made climate change, and thinks the Corona Crisis is the work of the devil.

She is a fan of Donald Trump as "one of the two people in the world today who give us clarity."

On the television program "Monitor" here in Germany in July 2022, she said, "It's the ideology that is directed against the natural life of people, against the family - the Western ideology is the danger." And, "We have to do something to stop the Russia-phobia in Europe. The Russian way of life is the one we need here in Europe."

I don't think that the statement of you, stocker2014, that anti-Americanism has been forming here for decades is correct. Unfortunately, however, I have to observe that especially since the beginning of the Corona pandemic tendencies in parts of the population develop in this direction, even if this - according to my knowledge - should apply only to a minority. And, yes, I also believe that this development is being fed by Russia, especially on social media platforms.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 12, 2023, 03:17
Yes, there are these tendencies in parts of the population here in Germany.
What percentage of the population in Germany has claims against the United States, wants to get away from the United States, and believes that the United States is to blame for the war in Ukraine?

All I can say about this is this:

A survey here in Germany in May 2022 showed:
Above all, the majority of supporters of the politically extreme left wing (56%) and extreme right wing (88%) were against the delivery of heavy weapons to Ukraine.

In general, fear of an expansion of the war is high in Germany. 70% thought a diplomatic solution was the right way to end the war, and only 24% believed in a military victory.

Regarding your question about anti-American tendencies in Germany:
In 2016, there was a representative survey that about 10% of Germans agreed with statements like these:
- "People in the U.S. are exceedingly selfish and egotistical."
- "U.S. culture is superficial."
- "The U.S. is to blame for the fact that we have so many world conflicts."
- "U.S. imperialism is the real threat to world peace."

The Federal Agency for Civic Education notes in this regard that a clear anti-U.S. attitude has emerged especially in the far-right milieu.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 12, 2023, 04:06
Yes, there are these tendencies in parts of the population here in Germany.
What percentage of the population in Germany has claims against the United States, wants to get away from the United States, and believes that the United States is to blame for the war in Ukraine?

All I can say about this is this:

A survey here in Germany in May 2022 showed:
Above all, the majority of supporters of the politically extreme left wing (56%) and extreme right wing (88%) were against the delivery of heavy weapons to Ukraine.

In general, fear of an expansion of the war is high in Germany. 70% thought a diplomatic solution was the right way to end the war, and only 24% believed in a military victory.

Regarding your question about anti-American tendencies in Germany:
In 2016, there was a representative survey that about 10% of Germans agreed with statements like these:
- "People in the U.S. are exceedingly selfish and egotistical."
- "U.S. culture is superficial."
- "The U.S. is to blame for the fact that we have so many world conflicts."
- "U.S. imperialism is the real threat to world peace."

The Federal Agency for Civic Education notes in this regard that a clear anti-U.S. attitude has emerged especially in the far-right milieu.
Well, that's what I write about all the time. Germany under the hood of Russian propaganda.
It remains only for Germany to leave NATO and meet Russian tanks with flowers, bread, salt, vodka.
Horror you have there.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 12, 2023, 04:08
The Russian way of life is the one we need here in Europe."
:o :-X :-\

I don't think that the statement of you, stocker2014, that anti-Americanism has been forming here for decades is correct. Unfortunately, however, I have to observe that especially since the beginning of the Corona pandemic tendencies in parts of the population develop in this direction, even if this - according to my knowledge - should apply only to a minority. And, yes, I also believe that this development is being fed by Russia, especially on social media platforms.
They do not understand that the virus was released in China, from the laboratory. Released perhaps even on purpose. The virus is a weapon in the third world war, which has been going on for a long time.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 12, 2023, 04:11
Pope Francis is a supporter of the Russian world. How could he even be elected pope in the Vatican? It represents a type of global south, but what it is and how many countries are included in this south is not clear to anyone. Pope is pursuing a policy of surrendering Ukrainian territories to Russia. Pope supports the occupation of Ukraine and supports the Russian terrorist church. Pope represents Catholics around the world?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 12, 2023, 13:16
Oh guys, you really start to sound like a QAnon group here. Everything is Russia's fault or China. It's getting pretty hilarious by now.

I know I promised not respond anymore but I had to get this of my chest.

Have fun with the rest of your arguments/findings :)

Eager to see which people are now part of the dark side :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 12, 2023, 17:35
Oh guys, you really start to sound like a QAnon group here. Everything is Russia's fault or China. It's getting pretty hilarious by now.

I know I promised not respond anymore but I had to get this of my chest.

Have fun with the rest of your arguments/findings :)

Eager to see which people are now part of the dark side :)

What are you talking about?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 12, 2023, 18:50
Oh guys, you really start to sound like a QAnon group here. Everything is Russia's fault or China. It's getting pretty hilarious by now.

I know I promised not respond anymore but I had to get this of my chest.

Have fun with the rest of your arguments/findings :)

Eager to see which people are now part of the dark side :)

What are you talking about?

It's simple, Wilm. It's not russia's fault, the invasion of Ukraine. It's the fault of the US for provoking russia. Everybody knows that!
Poor russians, they had no option left but to start bombarding and killing civilians.
Duh...
 ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 14, 2023, 02:40
Yesterday the armed forces of Ukraine shot down 2 Russian helicopters and 2 planes.

"The historic victory of the Air Defense Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the sky over Russia! In one battle, in a brilliantly organized ambush, the Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile system destroyed four Russian combat vehicles at once! The latest Russian Su-35S fighter, Su-34 bomber and two Mi-8 helicopters were shot down! Judging by the published video, all these targets were traveling at a considerable height, and were suddenly destroyed by long-range anti-aircraft rockets before they had time to perform an anti-missile maneuver. Missiles hit Russian planes and helicopters from the nose, so the Russians spread the information that all the crews were destroyed, no one had time to jump out after a powerful hit in the cockpit area.

The cost of the most modern serial Russian Su-35S under the export contract with China is 104 million dollars for one aircraft, that is, at the available export prices, Russian military equipment worth approximately 200 million dollars was destroyed in the battle. Pilots were also destroyed, the training of which is not only expensive, but also requires many years.

The last time Russian aviation suffered such losses in one battle was on July 30, 1970. At that time, Israel's air force conducted Operation Rimon-20, during which in one battle 4 Russian MiG-21 fighters were destroyed at the same time, 3 pilots were eliminated, and another MiG was damaged. The Israelis had no losses in planes and pilots, one of their fighters was also damaged.

Now the Armed Forces have written their unique feat into world history.

Russian aircraft bombed Ukrainian cities, villages, bridges, and other civilian objects in the north of Ukraine with impunity, Russian aerial terrorists destroyed everything without resistance, indiscriminately attacked peaceful homes, killed old people and children.

But now a successful counterattack was carried out, and the enemy was suddenly struck in the air in the Bryansk region. Now the Russians have lost dominance in the air over Bryansk region. This battle will significantly limit the terrorist actions of the Russian aviation."

Glory to Ukraine !
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 14, 2023, 02:43
The armed forces of Ukraine advance, the Russians run away, die and surrender.
Bakhmut, Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHBkNJJgMwI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHBkNJJgMwI)
There are English subtitles.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2023, 03:28
According to official data, the Armed Forces of Ukraine liquidated almost 200 thousand Russian invaders. Actually I think around 300 thousand. Official statistics don't take much into account.
(https://scontent.fods5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/347234491_3431555763825438_3161196840394199775_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=zbj1TvaUkLsAX_X9fKa&_nc_ht=scontent.fods5-1.fna&oh=00_AfAb3IHPKfxsaJ_iK3JypXvEIf88Mv5VVhPuIBIgOwnjqw&oe=64666C18)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 15, 2023, 15:24
I just read in an article of the Washington post that Zelensky was thinking of attacking Russia on it's own soil a few months ago (I would, if I was being attacked) but he was lacking long distance missiles to do so. Fortunately England just supplied these long range missiles.
Even though Ukraine promised not to use them again Russia, I am getting popcorn and putting my Children in a nuclear shelter :)
Just kidding, but don't be saying, "that escalated quickly!" if the crap hits the fan.

Our NATO leader also expressed today that NATO countries will be delivering more weapons to Ukraine in the war against Russia and that Ukraine will become part of NATO as soon as the war is over. That is a statement of NATO being clearly part of this war (as obviously they were already).
You supply weapons, you train their military personel, you have boots on the ground (special operations). We are in fact at war with Russia. Rightfully so or not, it will have repercussions and can escalate to a point where much more is at stake then just Ukraine.
But hey, Slava Ukraini!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 15, 2023, 18:07
I just read in an article of the Washington post that Zelensky was thinking of attacking Russia on it's own soil a few months ago (I would, if I was being attacked) but he was lacking long distance missiles to do so. Fortunately England just supplied these long range missiles.
Even though Ukraine promised not to use them again Russia, I am getting popcorn and putting my Children in a nuclear shelter :)
Just kidding, but don't be saying, "that escalated quickly!" if the crap hits the fan.

Our NATO leader also expressed today that NATO countries will be delivering more weapons to Ukraine in the war against Russia and that Ukraine will become part of NATO as soon as the war is over. That is a statement of NATO being clearly part of this war (as obviously they were already).
You supply weapons, you train their military personel, you have boots on the ground (special operations). We are in fact at war with Russia. Rightfully so or not, it will have repercussions and can escalate to a point where much more is at stake then just Ukraine.
But hey, Slava Ukraini!

Slava Ukraini, indeed!

Just on remark: the idea was not to attack russia for the sake of attacking russia, but to surround the fortifications the invadors built on Ukrainian land (+cripple the invasion logistics)
See the map below:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 02:41
Zero Talent, yes, this scheme is ideal. But will they decide on it ... I feel that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will not attack like that, but will simply go to storm the Russian fortifications.
There is another cool scheme, Armed Forces of Ukraine can immediately go to Moscow, there are no fortifications and enemy troops along the way, and the distance is only 500 km. :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 03:46
With long-range missiles for Ukraine, the issue was resolved positively. Of course, American ATACMS would be better, but British Storm Shadows are also suitable, although their consumption will be higher.
The issue of F16 fighters began to be resolved. There is hope that in a few months Ukraine will receive them.

"Ukraine plans to receive up to 50 F-16 fighters, - Politico

According to Yuriy Sak, adviser to the head of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, this will allow the formation of 3-4 squadrons to protect the sky from the blows of the Rashists.

The publication writes that the need for modern aircraft has escalated since in March the invaders began to use guided bombs that are capable of hitting targets at long distances. According to Sak, Ukraine currently has "nothing to stop" Russian planes carrying such bombs.

He added that the president would like to see the topic of combat aircraft in the spotlight at the G7 summit in Hiroshima and after - the NATO summit in Lithuania. In addition, Zelensky received assurances from partners that the issue would be raised."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 05:38
Slava Ukraini, indeed!
:)
Slava Ukraine! or Glory To Ukraine! it is a form of greeting. You need to answer - Glory to the heroes! or Heroiam slava!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava_Ukraini (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava_Ukraini)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on May 16, 2023, 06:06
Just to add my 2 cents. Russia simply will not stop until they are stopped.

Not sure why it hasn't been publicised more but they have already stepped up attempts to destabilise Moldova, even going as far as to attempt a coup. Private Eye did some good reporting on it but as that isn’t online here's a Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/)

This is while they are already stretched in Ukraine. If they get what they want there, give them just enough time to recover and they will be on to the next country. They should have been stopped in 2008 when they invaded Georgia, then maybe Crimea wouldn't have been invaded. Sadly any concession they see as weakness.

Any talk about the West expanding the war is absurd. Russia will continue to expand either way, it just depends on what terms. I really don’t know what the solution is but that’s the truth of the situation as it currently stands.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 07:40
Just to add my 2 cents. Russia simply will not stop until they are stopped.

Not sure why it hasn't been publicised more but they have already stepped up attempts to destabilise Moldova, even going as far as to attempt a coup. Private Eye did some good reporting on it but as that isn’t online here's a Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/)

This is while they are already stretched in Ukraine. If they get what they want there, give them just enough time to recover and they will be on to the next country. They should have been stopped in 2008 when they invaded Georgia, then maybe Crimea wouldn't have been invaded. Sadly any concession they see as weakness.

Any talk about the West expanding the war is absurd. Russia will continue to expand either way, it just depends on what terms. I really don’t know what the solution is but that’s the truth of the situation as it currently stands.
+100.
Russia's goal is to occupy at least half of the EU.
But I would not start from 2008, for some reason everyone does not remember how Russia killed Chechens, killed women and children in the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Russia started a war against the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in 1994. As a result, Russia occupied Ichkeria. The democratic countries allowed Russia to commit these war crimes, probably the media did not even show it. The losses of the Chechen people were huge.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 07:56
I really don’t know what the solution is but that’s the truth of the situation as it currently stands.
Everything is very simple. The terrorist and fascist regime in the Russian empire must be destroyed. For this you need:
1. Supply more and more weapons to the Ukrainian army. Ukraine, since the days of Kievan Rus', has been protecting Europe from barbarian invasions. Ukraine will protect Europe even now.
2. More and more sanctions against Russia and the Russian people.
3. It is necessary to destroy the Russian empire and give the occupied peoples independence.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on May 16, 2023, 07:56
+100.
Russia's goal is to occupy at least half of the EU.
But I would not start from 2008, for some reason everyone does not remember how Russia killed Chechens, killed women and children in the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria. Russia started a war against the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria in 1994. As a result, Russia occupied Ichkeria. The democratic countries allowed Russia to commit these war crimes, probably the media did not even show it. The losses of the Chechen people were huge.

I had to start somewhere but yes you are correct. The Chechen example is in fact perhaps the most frightening. They killed so many people and destroyed so much of the country, yet still have managed to maintain control after the war by utilising oppression and brutality. I pray for the people of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 16, 2023, 10:07
Just to add my 2 cents. Russia simply will not stop until they are stopped.

Not sure why it hasn't been publicised more but they have already stepped up attempts to destabilise Moldova, even going as far as to attempt a coup. Private Eye did some good reporting on it but as that isn’t online here's a Reuters article: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fake-bombs-failed-coup-moldova-smolders-border-russias-war-2023-03-10/)

This is while they are already stretched in Ukraine. If they get what they want there, give them just enough time to recover and they will be on to the next country. They should have been stopped in 2008 when they invaded Georgia, then maybe Crimea wouldn't have been invaded. Sadly any concession they see as weakness.

Any talk about the West expanding the war is absurd. Russia will continue to expand either way, it just depends on what terms. I really don’t know what the solution is but that’s the truth of the situation as it currently stands.
The good news is that now Moldova has finally succeded in electing a very smart and charismatic, pro-EU president, Maia Sandu. I can see similarities between her and Zelensky.

A couple of days ago, Moldova just decided to leave the russian-dominated "Commonwealth of Independent States" (CIS). The main reason is russia's ongoing support of so-called Transnistria, which is currently occupying Moldovan territory in the East of the country.

Transnistria is a self-proclaimed country, a russian puppet organization, where a russian army is stationed to "keep the peace". Its "independence" is only recognized by South Ossetia, Artsakh, and Abkhazia, themselves being russian puppets, russian sponsored, breakaway provinces of Georgia and Armenia.

Transnistria was part of the original (but now failing) putin's "master plan" to land-lock Ukraine, as we can see on this map, accidentally (?) revealed during one of Lukashenko's briefings (note the invasion arrow pointing from Odessa towards Moldova, and how Transnistria was already marked as russian)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 11:12
Transnistria, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, "Donetsk Republic", Crimea, these are all territories occupied by Russia. These are elements of a hybrid war. Russia occupies territories, but does not always formally annex them. This is done in order to continue the occupation of the affected countries at any time.
As for Transnistria specifically, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will free this territory from Russian troops in the future, because it poses a threat to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 16, 2023, 11:22

As for Transnistria specifically, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will free this territory from Russian troops in the future, because. it poses a threat to Ukraine.

That cannot happen. After being invaded by russia, Ukraine will never invade Moldova.

Instead, I expect a Moldo-Ukrainian alliance to be formed, aiming to liberate, together, the occupied Moldovan lands, and expel the russian army from there, because it's posing a threat to both countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 16, 2023, 13:07

As for Transnistria specifically, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will free this territory from Russian troops in the future, because. it poses a threat to Ukraine.

That cannot happen. After being invaded by russia, Ukraine will never invade Moldova.

Instead, I expect a Moldo-Ukrainian alliance to be formed, aiming to liberate, together, the occupied Moldovan lands, and expel the russian army from there, because it's posing a threat to both countries.
Of course. Ukraine will never occupy anyone. The Moldovan government will ask the government of Ukraine to provide military assistance to liberate Transnistria.
Moldova has a big problem, it does not have a good army.
But, if in the near future Russian troops from Transnistria start shelling or attacking Ukraine, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be forced to liquidate this terrorist enclave, and without the permission of Moldova.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 17, 2023, 03:54
Maybe not everyone knows. There has long been such a term as Rashism. Rashism is Russian fascism. But there is no difference between fascism and Rashism. Russians are often called not only fascists and terrorists, but also rashists.
More details here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruscism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruscism)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 17, 2023, 15:54
BBC Special: Inside Russia


https://youtu.be/ImE_fNTXN34


Quote
In February 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine.

Despite the huge risks, two Russian filmmakers spent the year filming the impact of the war inside their country. Hundreds of thousands have fled. Those that stayed have had to choose - to oppose, support or stay silent. A group of young graffiti artists begin a campaign of subversive art to mock the government’s pro-war propaganda. An actor mourns her brother who was killed in Mariupol fighting for the Russian Armed Forces. She is against the war; her father supports it.

Storyville Inside Russia: Traitors and Heroes was produced by BBC World Service’s investigation unit, BBC Eye.

Directed by Anastasia Popova, produced by Misha Kozyrev and Stephanie Stafford, Edited by Anna Saridi & Baya Cat, Exec Producer Monica Garnsey.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 18, 2023, 03:47
BBC Special: Inside Russia
https://youtu.be/ImE_fNTXN34
Quote
In February 2022, Russia invaded Ukraine.
Despite the huge risks, two Russian filmmakers spent the year filming the impact of the war inside their country. Hundreds of thousands have fled. Those that stayed have had to choose - to oppose, support or stay silent. A group of young graffiti artists begin a campaign of subversive art to mock the government’s pro-war propaganda. An actor mourns her brother who was killed in Mariupol fighting for the Russian Armed Forces. She is against the war; her father supports it.
Storyville Inside Russia: Traitors and Heroes was produced by BBC World Service’s investigation unit, BBC Eye.
Directed by Anastasia Popova, produced by Misha Kozyrev and Stephanie Stafford, Edited by Anna Saridi & Baya Cat, Exec Producer Monica Garnsey.
I didn't like anything there. A movie about the so-called "good" Russians. They call the war, the occupation and the killing of women and children "special operation". Not a movie, but solid snot, sitting in the kitchens, saying something there, and drawing something incomprehensible somewhere.
In this thread, I asked one "good" Russian 5 questions, and so these questions should be asked to all Russians who believe that they are not fascists and are like "good". As practice has shown, 99% of Russians cannot pass this test. Rashism sits in their subconscious, and they consider themselves the titular nation, and they are all for the Russian empire and the so-called "Russian world". In short, they are all fascists and chauvinists, these Russians.
As I wrote earlier, they all like the results of Putin, but some do not like his methods.
Now their so-called "opposition" is criticizing their defense industry, how badly missiles are made there. They want their rockets to produce well and more Ukrainian women and children to die. That's all you need to know about Russians.

And those Russians who left Russia, we also see them, they run around Germany with Russian flags on May 9, and shout that Russian winners and Russia are cool. It is necessary to expel all these Russians from democratic countries, they bring evil with them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 18, 2023, 03:53
It would be better if the BBC made a film about those russians who, as part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, are fighting against russian terrorists and fascists in Ukraine. Or they made a film about those russians who went into partisans and destroy fuel depots and railway trains with armored vehicles. Unless, of course, such partisan detachments exist in this fascist Russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 18, 2023, 04:06
99% of russians are sitting in their Russia quietly on their ass, waiting for Putin to kill all Ukrainians. And they are all proud of the fact that they are russian and proud of their country, their city, May 9th. That's it, they don't do anything else. Protests, incl. armed, against fascism is not there and never has been and never will be. Putin is their tsar, whom they themselves have chosen and whom they want there, he represents 99% of Russians.
Any normal person should be ashamed to even say that he is russian and that he lives in Russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on May 18, 2023, 04:11
We were speaking of Fox News earlier on this thread. This has been in the news:

"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988 (https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988)

Quote
Canadian regulators have launched a public consultation on calls to ban Fox News from cable packages after receiving complaints saying the network has aired hateful content about LGBTQ2S+ people.

The public consultation, which began earlier this month, was triggered by an open letter from advocacy group Egale Canada.

"People in Canada deserve to know that the news broadcast on Canadian airwaves is reliable and objective, and marginalized groups must be protected from malicious propaganda," the group's executive director Helen Kennedy wrote.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

When your key objective is providing reliable and objective news outlets, Fox news has no place on your network, that's clear.

But. It's a very slippery slope, and no matter how much I dislike media outlets as Fox, I really wonder a ban is the right thing to do.
It will put them in their favorite position: a gagged victim. It will give them the power to say: your government doesn't want you to hear what we have to say. Your government only feeds you what they want you to eat. It also gives them more power to attack the mistakes other non-banned media make. And people will keep on consuming fox over the internet anyhow, getting even more tangled up in their spiderweb because they don't trust their own media regulator anymore.

The examples I've seen from (from my point of view justified) banning extreme voices in my country only made them more popular. We did that. We banned a far-right political party. We got them convicted for racism. Mainstream media banned them from interviews and tv-shows for a very long time. Yet. They are now the biggest political party in my country up to a point where they can't be ignored anymore. The same is happening with communists. Banned from mainstream media for a very long time, banned from taking part in governments, yet, they keep on growing election after election, up to a point where they can't be ignored anymore.

We started a war against illegal drugs. Yet, finding a dealer never was easier than today, one of our cities is a major drug trafficking hub in the world, and we have weekly incidents with explosions, drive by shootings and brutal murders organized by drug organizations.

I believe that hard repression against opposing or rather extreme voices has no place in a democracy. It will end in a highly polarized culture war with the winner installing a dictatorial leadership applying harsh repression tactics against opposition and allowing very little freedom, even for the ones who are rather supportive for the leadership. Nobody truly enjoys living in a society like that. At the same time, I strongly believe in a society setting boundaries to what is acceptable and what not, with consequences on freedom and freedom of speech.

Two quotes whom I hold in high esteem:
- I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
- Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid crap.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 18, 2023, 04:12
Nikolaev, Ukraine. Two days ago, russian rocket.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/0/b/0b730fd-fotor-2023-5-17-8-6-50.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 18, 2023, 04:17
At the same time, I strongly believe in a society setting boundaries to what is acceptable and what not, with consequences on freedom and freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid crap.
Well, they banned the channel, or they want to ban it. Criminal cases are also needed. For the propaganda of fascism, racism and rashism, you need to be imprisoned.
Democracy is not a toy, it is above all the rule of law. Democracy is not an unarmed society, it is a very well armed society.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 18, 2023, 11:13
The russians are going to escalate the war around the world. As early as this month, Russia will start supplying fighter jets to Iran. This will escalate the war in the Middle East. Israel is under threat.
In response, a decision was made to transfer F16 fighter jets to Ukraine. These fighters have been needed for more than a year.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 18, 2023, 13:05
We were speaking of Fox News earlier on this thread. This has been in the news:

"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988 (https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988)

Quote
Canadian regulators have launched a public consultation on calls to ban Fox News from cable packages after receiving complaints saying the network has aired hateful content about LGBTQ2S+ people.

The public consultation, which began earlier this month, was triggered by an open letter from advocacy group Egale Canada.

"People in Canada deserve to know that the news broadcast on Canadian airwaves is reliable and objective, and marginalized groups must be protected from malicious propaganda," the group's executive director Helen Kennedy wrote.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I don't watch Fox News I don't have cable. I have no thoughts that I am missing something. They are terribly biased from what others report. That's OK the Govt. subsidized and managed PBS is also someone what biased towards the left.

But I had to look this one up as there are more letters added or removed in various positions on the subject: LGBTQ2S+ meaning is an acronym for sexual orientations and gender identities that are not heterosexual or cisgender. It stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer or Questioning, and Two-Spirit
That's one is new for me.

This on has added more letters as well: LGBTQIA+ is an abbreviation for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, asexual, and more.

But back to the point. Canada is saying that Fox must accept and embrace LGBTQ+ or be banned. Oh right, there isn't free speech in Canada. Hard to say this, because I do not agree with Fox News leanings, but it seems a bit repressive while claiming to be inclusive? What about someones right to not accept a social or political position? Don't they have a choice or freedom of thought?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 18, 2023, 13:49
We were speaking of Fox News earlier on this thread. This has been in the news:

"Canadian regulator launches public consultation on banning Fox News from cable packages"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988 (https://www.ctvnews.ca/entertainment/canadian-regulator-launches-public-consultation-on-banning-fox-news-from-cable-packages-1.6386988)

Quote
Canadian regulators have launched a public consultation on calls to ban Fox News from cable packages after receiving complaints saying the network has aired hateful content about LGBTQ2S+ people.

The public consultation, which began earlier this month, was triggered by an open letter from advocacy group Egale Canada.

"People in Canada deserve to know that the news broadcast on Canadian airwaves is reliable and objective, and marginalized groups must be protected from malicious propaganda," the group's executive director Helen Kennedy wrote.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

When your key objective is providing reliable and objective news outlets, Fox news has no place on your network, that's clear.

But. It's a very slippery slope, and no matter how much I dislike media outlets as Fox, I really wonder a ban is the right thing to do.
It will put them in their favorite position: a gagged victim. It will give them the power to say: your government doesn't want you to hear what we have to say. Your government only feeds you what they want you to eat. It also gives them more power to attack the mistakes other non-banned media make. And people will keep on consuming fox over the internet anyhow, getting even more tangled up in their spiderweb because they don't trust their own media regulator anymore.

The examples I've seen from (from my point of view justified) banning extreme voices in my country only made them more popular. We did that. We banned a far-right political party. We got them convicted for racism. Mainstream media banned them from interviews and tv-shows for a very long time. Yet. They are now the biggest political party in my country up to a point where they can't be ignored anymore. The same is happening with communists. Banned from mainstream media for a very long time, banned from taking part in governments, yet, they keep on growing election after election, up to a point where they can't be ignored anymore.

We started a war against illegal drugs. Yet, finding a dealer never was easier than today, one of our cities is a major drug trafficking hub in the world, and we have weekly incidents with explosions, drive by shootings and brutal murders organized by drug organizations.

I believe that hard repression against opposing or rather extreme voices has no place in a democracy. It will end in a highly polarized culture war with the winner installing a dictatorial leadership applying harsh repression tactics against opposition and allowing very little freedom, even for the ones who are rather supportive for the leadership. Nobody truly enjoys living in a society like that. At the same time, I strongly believe in a society setting boundaries to what is acceptable and what not, with consequences on freedom and freedom of speech.

Two quotes whom I hold in high esteem:
- I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
- Freedom of speech does not protect you from the consequences of saying stupid crap.

Welcome back. So true!

Stoker would probably not agree with me, because he is so angry with Russia, and I am too, Stoker, but we can't stamp out fascism and bad elements by simply blocking them as Roscoe says above.

I think the recent CNN Town Hall with Donald Trump is a perfect example. My husband refused to watch it, I did. I was shocked and upset by things like his heartless attacks on the woman who had just won a sexual abuse case against him. Mocking and humiliating her. But most importantly, at how part of his Republican voter audience applauded him.

Afterwards CNN received a huge backlash from CNN's main audience, angry at the channel for even airing the show. And apparently, that particular CNN timeslot's ratings has suffered from loss of ratings.  But as I said to my husband, 'know your enemy' (Sun Tzu). We need to see these things to understand what's really going on.

I have no opinion regarding the Canada situation with Fox News - just interested to see how it plays out. Canada is a different situation of course, because Fox News is basically a political station for American right wing politics, and may not have the same public loyalty in Canada.

As I said above, we can't stamp out bad elements by simply turning a blind eye to it. (Its starting to permeate into Australia too). We need to understand what's going on and then we need to vote. Thats the power of democracy.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: farbled on May 18, 2023, 14:02
I don't watch Fox News I don't have cable. I have no thoughts that I am missing something. They are terribly biased from what others report. That's OK the Govt. subsidized and managed PBS is also someone what biased towards the left.

But I had to look this one up as there are more letters added or removed in various positions on the subject: LGBTQ2S+ meaning is an acronym for sexual orientations and gender identities that are not heterosexual or cisgender. It stands for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer or Questioning, and Two-Spirit
That's one is new for me.

This on has added more letters as well: LGBTQIA+ is an abbreviation for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, asexual, and more.

But back to the point. Canada is saying that Fox must accept and embrace LGBTQ+ or be banned. Oh right, there isn't free speech in Canada. Hard to say this, because I do not agree with Fox News leanings, but it seems a bit repressive while claiming to be inclusive? What about someones right to not accept a social or political position? Don't they have a choice or freedom of thought?

Sorry, this is nonsense and you're perpetuating mis-info by suggesting this is the case. CRTC (our broadcasting authority) has opened a public consultation only. Basically they are asking for opinions about a cable channel that promotes hate-speech and violence toward a specific group. There has been zero talk of banning Fox from anywhere except on cable channels. Everyone can still access fox online if they wish, or through alternate channel deals if they do remove this from cable channel packages.

As for the whole acronym issue, if its a concern then just ask the person if they have a preference on what to be called, Pete. Its respectful and easy and is much the same way doctors like being called "doctor so-and-so." If you don't get the specifics, no one really cares as long as you're respectful if it comes up. I doubt it does to be honest. It is a nonissue except for those who delight in being outraged about it. Keeps the focus off the daily mass shootings I guess.

I just assume most are projecting to be honest. And don't worry, I know I am changing no one's mind.

By the way, we have free speech, guns, and everything else the US has. We just have some rules about them is all, to keep people from using them as weapons against other people. Kinda like having driving tests and sobriety limits when driving. No different.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: farbled on May 18, 2023, 14:33
As I said above, we can't stamp out bad elements by simply turning a blind eye to it. (Its starting to permeate into Australia too). We need to understand what's going on and then we need to vote. Thats the power of democracy.

I agree, I just think there should be limits to how much nastiness gets a free podium. A different pov is important, but publicly asking folks to commit criminal acts (or support those who do) is less so. And when a "news" channel admits in court that they lied on-air consistently over time, there should be repercussions for that. Yes its a slippery slope, but doing nothing is (again in my opinion) worse.

As for the CNN debacle, Jon Stewart summed it up best I think, he said that while he learned nothing new about DJT, he learned a lot about CNN. Staging a "town hall" in this case added nothing newsworthy (IMHO) except that it allowed DJT to once again run his mouth unchecked. On the plus side, his defamed the woman again live on TV, and last I saw she will be filing another suit. Free money I guess.

And I would add the qualifier that its an educated and informed democracy that is ultimately the most successful. :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: farbled on May 18, 2023, 14:50
duplicate. sorry
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 18, 2023, 15:32
Stoker would probably not agree with me, because he is so angry with Russia, and I am too, Stoker, but we can't stamp out fascism and bad elements by simply blocking them as Roscoe says above.
Blocking, liquidate, apply sanctions, this is what needs to be done with evil.
For 30 years, democracy has done nothing with the Russian empire; as a result, democracy has grown fascism and terrorism with its own hands. The same goes for China.
So just looking is not enough.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 18, 2023, 16:00
Stoker would probably not agree with me, because he is so angry with Russia, and I am too, Stoker, but we can't stamp out fascism and bad elements by simply blocking them as Roscoe says above.
Blocking, liquidate, apply sanctions, this is what needs to be done with evil.
For 30 years, democracy has done nothing with the Russian empire; as a result, democracy has grown fascism and terrorism with its own hands. The same goes for China.
So just looking is not enough.

I hear you, and I feel the same way about repressive governments. But I don't know if that's that answer.


Sanctions haven't worked. But every one of us in a democratic country can go and vote for our own choice of government who are committed to putting an end to the war. The better informed we all are, the more people we have that can do this.
 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 18, 2023, 16:57
As I said above, we can't stamp out bad elements by simply turning a blind eye to it. (Its starting to permeate into Australia too). We need to understand what's going on and then we need to vote. Thats the power of democracy.

I agree, I just think there should be limits to how much nastiness gets a free podium. A different pov is important, but publicly asking folks to commit criminal acts (or support those who do) is less so. And when a "news" channel admits in court that they lied on-air consistently over time, there should be repercussions for that. Yes its a slippery slope, but doing nothing is (again in my opinion) worse.

As for the CNN debacle, Jon Stewart summed it up best I think, he said that while he learned nothing new about DJT, he learned a lot about CNN. Staging a "town hall" in this case added nothing newsworthy (IMHO) except that it allowed DJT to once again run his mouth unchecked. On the plus side, his defamed the woman again live on TV, and last I saw she will be filing another suit. Free money I guess.

And I would add the qualifier that its an educated and informed democracy that is ultimately the most successful. :)

I dont think it was a debacle, per se. And attacking CNN is just shooting the messenger.  Its ok for the converted who know and dislike him, but there are a lot of moderates, and people who don't go to his rallies, out there who need to see this. I agree with CNN who said afterwards that because he is a front-runner for presidency, it should be seen. 'Know your enemy'.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: farbled on May 18, 2023, 17:15
...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 19, 2023, 04:32
Stoker would probably not agree with me, because he is so angry with Russia, and I am too, Stoker, but we can't stamp out fascism and bad elements by simply blocking them as Roscoe says above.
Blocking, liquidate, apply sanctions, this is what needs to be done with evil.
For 30 years, democracy has done nothing with the Russian empire; as a result, democracy has grown fascism and terrorism with its own hands. The same goes for China.
So just looking is not enough.

I hear you, and I feel the same way about repressive governments. But I don't know if that's that answer.


Sanctions haven't worked. But every one of us in a democratic country can go and vote for our own choice of government who are committed to putting an end to the war. The better informed we all are, the more people we have that can do this.
Oops, I read you, I read, and you deleted everything :)
Concerning russian youth. What will happen if you plant the seeds of beautiful flowers and plants in poisoned and poisonous soil? The answer is obvious, instead of beautiful flowers, you will grow ugly monsters. I think you understand what I'm talking about.
Russians are not Ukrainians, since their appearance, and this is the 16th century, they have been brought up in the imperial spirit. In order for Russian youth to correctly understand the situation, to think good and not evil, it is necessary to liquidate the Russian empire, temporarily occupy Moscovia (and this is exactly the territory where the Russians can eventually remain) and completely retrain them for 20 years. During this time, normal flowers and plants will grow in good soil.
You write about democratic countries, about elections in these countries, about the peace. The problem is that there is a war going on, and for peace to come, the war must first be won and defeated by evil, at least on the battlefield.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 19, 2023, 07:54
Stoker would probably not agree with me, because he is so angry with Russia, and I am too, Stoker, but we can't stamp out fascism and bad elements by simply blocking them as Roscoe says above.
Blocking, liquidate, apply sanctions, this is what needs to be done with evil.
For 30 years, democracy has done nothing with the Russian empire; as a result, democracy has grown fascism and terrorism with its own hands. The same goes for China.
So just looking is not enough.

I hear you, and I feel the same way about repressive governments. But I don't know if that's that answer.


Sanctions haven't worked. But every one of us in a democratic country can go and vote for our own choice of government who are committed to putting an end to the war. The better informed we all are, the more people we have that can do this.
Oops, I read you, I read, and you deleted everything :)
Concerning russian youth. What will happen if you plant the seeds of beautiful flowers and plants in poisoned and poisonous soil? The answer is obvious, instead of beautiful flowers, you will grow ugly monsters. I think you understand what I'm talking about.
Russians are not Ukrainians, since their appearance, and this is the 16th century, they have been brought up in the imperial spirit. In order for Russian youth to correctly understand the situation, to think good and not evil, it is necessary to liquidate the Russian empire, temporarily occupy Moscovia (and this is exactly the territory where the Russians can eventually remain) and completely retrain them for 20 years. During this time, normal flowers and plants will grow in good soil.
You write about democratic countries, about elections in these countries, about the peace. The problem is that there is a war going on, and for peace to come, the war must first be won and defeated by evil, at least on the battlefield.

Yes, I did.  And exactly because of this. I didn't want to go three rounds with you because of some of my own personal big-picture musings. It's the weekend here and I just want to relax.

I need a break from all of this. I'll see you all in a week or two.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 19, 2023, 07:55
History may not repeat itself, but it clearly rhymes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 19, 2023, 09:24
Annie, you asked questions verbally, below I write the answers to them.
 
1. You also say that it is not Russia, but the United States, that is to blame for the war and the genocide of Ukrainians. ???  ::) :-\ :(
2. This topic has already been discussed. High gas prices are a consequence of the policy of the Kremlin agent Merkel. Not only her, of course, there are many KGB agents in the EU, but she was the main agent. At the same time, the EU has pursued and continues to pursue a policy of bad attitude towards the United States. The results of all this politics are visible in the articles you linked to.
3. Trump, Republicans, that was before the all-out war.
In any case, someone always earns more money, someone less. There is nothing wrong. The only bad thing is the EU policy that led to such crises. When the fascist country of Russia is in Europe, you can’t have anything to do with it at all, you can’t buy anything from it, and even more so you can’t depend on it.
Now a lot of weapons are coming to Ukraine, and yes, military enterprises are making money. But you do not want to say that you are left-wing and that you are a communist.
4. The problem with Russia is solvable, it is necessary to liquidate the Russian empire.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 19, 2023, 12:05
Who is blocking the money? One person:



"CNN: In a rare showing of public unity, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Republican Leader Mitch McConnell took to the Senate floor to press for quick passage of a $40 billion aid bill for Ukraine but were blocked by GOP Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky who is demanding changes to the legislation.

Despite the high-profile pressure from the two leaders, Paul refused to blink, meaning that Schumer will need to take procedural steps to overcome his objection, which could take several days, but will ultimately lead to passage of the supplemental spending bill sometime next week.

McConnell and Schumer on Thursday offered to allow a vote on Paul’s amendment, but he insisted it be added to the underlying bill.

The change Paul is seeking would create a special inspector general to oversee how the Ukraine military aid is spent. Members from both parties broadly agree with that notion, but forcing a change to the bill at this stage would be very time consuming and would slow getting the needed aid to Ukraine."

Procedure and rules of order are blocking the speed of this being passed, not the party opposition. (for a change)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 19, 2023, 12:13
...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 19, 2023, 13:23
Annie, I did not call you a communist, I wrote that you are not a communist. My English is pretty bad.

I saw your post long before you deleted it. The page was opened in the browser, then after some time I finished reading your post, then I refreshed the page and saw that you edited the post. But, I managed to read it and understood the course of your thoughts. You delete your thoughts in vain, there is no need for it. Feel free to write.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on May 19, 2023, 15:57
In order for Russian youth to correctly understand the situation, to think good and not evil, it is necessary to liquidate the Russian empire, temporarily occupy Moscovia (and this is exactly the territory where the Russians can eventually remain) and completely retrain them for 20 years. During this time, normal flowers and plants will grow in good soil.

Read your own comment but replace Russia by Ukraine and Mosovia by Metropolitanate of Kyiv or whatever region that's historically part of nowadays Ukraine.

And, let it sink in.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on May 19, 2023, 19:53
Annie, I did not call you a communist, I wrote that you are not a communist. My English is pretty bad.

I saw your post long before you deleted it. The page was opened in the browser, then after some time I finished reading your post, then I refreshed the page and saw that you edited the post. But, I managed to read it and understood the course of your thoughts. You delete your thoughts in vain, there is no need for it. Feel free to write.

Thanks Stoker. But please can you remove the contents of my deleted post. That is my prerogative, not yours, to not have it on the forum. I hope you understand that. Thanks  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 20, 2023, 02:05
Annie, I did not call you a communist, I wrote that you are not a communist. My English is pretty bad.

I saw your post long before you deleted it. The page was opened in the browser, then after some time I finished reading your post, then I refreshed the page and saw that you edited the post. But, I managed to read it and understood the course of your thoughts. You delete your thoughts in vain, there is no need for it. Feel free to write.

Thanks Stoker. But please can you remove the contents of my deleted post. That is my prerogative, not yours, to not have it on the forum. I hope you understand that. Thanks  :)
I don't have your deleted messages. I didn't copy them. You have removed them yourself.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 20, 2023, 02:12
Found this information.
How the KGB (FSB) of Russia works in the USA.

"The rhetoric of today's Russia is hybrid. In their propaganda, the ultimate goal of which is the banal retention of power, Putin and his team are guided by the ideas of fascism, communism, old-fashioned imperialism and religious conservatism. This ideological dressing room is suitable for all scenarios. Dressed up in moth-eaten uniforms of a fascist, now in a second-hand leather jacket of a communist, now in a cassock, Russian agents in the United States are trying to draw the most diverse groups into their orbit.
Working with ultra-left groups, FSB agents pretend to be enemies of racism, fighters for gender equality and haters of colonialism. This is where Marxism comes into play. For left-wing Americans, it continues to be associated with the USSR, in which they do not want to see an empire and in the collapse of which they refuse to believe. Thus, a number of Marxist African-American groups in the United States fell under the influence of Putin's bluff - the African Popular Socialist Party and the Uhuru Movement (collectively referred to as APSP) in Florida, Black Hammer ("Black Hammer") in Georgia and one group in California.
One of the important goals of the operation was to convince the Americans to support the Russian annexation of the territories of Ukraine."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 20, 2023, 02:16
"Thanks to the freedom of speech that exists in a democracy, Russian collaborators on the left continue to spread Russian propaganda on their websites and in magazines. An example is the Democratic Socialist Association of America (DSA), which, incidentally, has five members of the House of Representatives of Congress. "DSA calls on the US to withdraw from NATO and end the imperialist expansion that has set the stage for this conflict," its members say on their website. Interestingly, when criticizing the "expansion" of NATO, the socialists only take into account the imperial ambitions of Russia and ignore the right of the countries of Eastern Europe to choose allies and self-determination.

A well-known left-liberal magazine The Nation adheres to a similar position. He criticizes Putin, but at the same time he has a negative attitude not only to NATO, but also to the removal of Yanukovych in Ukraine. Speaking about the events of the Maidan in Ukraine, the left-wing liberals do not understand that under the influence of Russian propaganda they contradict their own convictions. Without reflection and without hesitation, these supporters of revolutions condemn the subjectivity of Ukrainians who had the political will to change power.

While one team of Russian agents is kissing socialists and blacks, the other is hugging conservatives and white neo-*. Here, Russian agents use other, often opposite, values - Christianity, the idealization of "traditional", that is, hierarchical relations in the family, the suppression of the rights of sexual minorities and the glorification of the white man.

As a result of such propaganda, the head of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke, once called Russia "the key to white survival." And white supremacist leader Richard Spencer called Russia "the only white power in the world."

In the right-wing radical groups of the Russian Federation, ultra-right journalists and bloggers are especially interested. A good example is One America News Network correspondent Jack Posobets, a proponent of neo-Nazi groups with a million followers on Twitter. According to investigations by US intelligence agencies and Hatewatch, Posobets worked closely with the Russian-registered SouthFront website. Posobets spread disinformation about biological laboratories in Ukraine. He questioned the reality of the massacre of civilians in Bucha. “We can’t say what happened in Bucha,” he said in his podcast aimed at a youth audience. The anti-Ukrainian position in the United States is closely connected with anti-democratic activity in the country. So during the 2016 elections, Posobets helped the anti-democratic project to abolish legitimate elections “Stop theft” become viral."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 20, 2023, 02:18
"One of the most dangerous supporters of the Russian Federation was Tucker Carlson, the mega-popular and radical conservative presenter recently fired from the Fox News channel. He did everything to undermine democracy in America. Contrary to the facts known to him, he did not get tired of assuring that the US presidential elections were rigged.

Carlson has been accused of racism more than once. He called the Iraqis "semi-literate primitive monkeys", said that because of the immigrants the country was "poorer and dirtier", attributed to the "white people" "the creation of civilization."
He openly stated that in Russia's war against Ukraine he was rooting for Russia, and he repeated Russian propaganda so often, including nonsense about biological laboratories, that he became the darling of the Russian press. And when he was fired for reasons known only to Fox managers, Russian propagandist Solovyov publicly offered him a job.

The influence of the pro-Russian ultra-left and ultra-right in the United States is unequal. There are only a handful of left-wing liberals in Congress, and their influence on Democratic-minded voters is weak. Democrats overwhelmingly support aid to Ukraine (79%), according to a March Axios/Ipsos poll.

The right-wing radical direction is much closer to the reality of the Russian Federation and is much more effective in its propaganda. "Putin's wing" in Congress consists of several dozen people and they have a serious influence on their Republican voters. As a result (according to Axios/Ipsos) only 42% of Republicans in the country today support assistance to Ukraine.

Last year, the most liberal and most conservative members of the House of Representatives voted together against a bill to confiscate the assets of Russian oligarchs under sanctions in order to use their funds in support of Ukraine. Together they were eight people."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 20, 2023, 04:23
In order for Russian youth to correctly understand the situation, to think good and not evil, it is necessary to liquidate the Russian empire, temporarily occupy Moscovia (and this is exactly the territory where the Russians can eventually remain) and completely retrain them for 20 years. During this time, normal flowers and plants will grow in good soil.

Read your own comment but replace Russia by Ukraine and Mosovia by Metropolitanate of Kyiv or whatever region that's historically part of nowadays Ukraine.
And, let it sink in.
These are the dreams of Russian fascists, rashists and terrorists. Currently, the Russians have occupied part of the territory of Ukraine and are engaged in the genocide of Ukrainians, murders and their deportation to Russia.
Although a lot of the territory of the Russian Empire is historically the territory of Ukraine, Ukraine does not attack anyone and does not occupy anyone. My post, which you quoted, described who the Russians are and what can help them in this world. This post was purely theoretical and will never be practical. The goal of Ukraine is to join NATO and fence off with ditches and a huge wall from the Russians and Muscovy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 21, 2023, 04:25
What are Trump prospects in next year's elections? Why is he not removed from the elections, because there are many investigations against him? One Capitol attack is worth something.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 21, 2023, 04:50
Former US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton believes that Donald Trump's victory in the presidential election in 2024 will be a threat to Ukraine.
Clinton said she did not believe Trump would win, but warned that if he succeeded, it would be "the end of democracy in the United States" and "the end of Ukraine."
Hillary Clinton believes that "complicated, messianic, narcissistic, authoritarian" Vladimir Putin was counting on a US exit from NATO under Trump's presidency.
"It would have been a cakewalk for him. And so when Trump didn't win, he [Putin] decided he had to go ahead," she said. It turned out to be "a completely miscalculation," Clinton added.
She suggested that Russia's failed war against Ukraine forced Chinese leader Xi Jinping to reconsider his plans for Taiwan.
“Trump was a gift to people like Xi and Putin. He was so in love with authoritarian leaders that he was incapable of any strategic approach to China. And you know, he was clearly going to do everything that Putin wanted from NATO,” Clinton said. .
https://www.ft.com/content/08546c35-1c14-43e9-8ee3-4aca5187a0fd (https://www.ft.com/content/08546c35-1c14-43e9-8ee3-4aca5187a0fd)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 21, 2023, 09:57
Just to add my 2 cents. Russia simply will not stop until they are stopped.

Not sure why it hasn't been publicised more but they have already stepped up attempts to destabilise Moldova, even going as far as to attempt a coup.

Huge pro-EU rally, in Moldova, today.
It's worth noticing that nobody is holding rallies to join russia.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 21, 2023, 13:00
Ukraine. A village near the city of Poltava. The camera is constantly filming the nest of storks.
https://www.youtube.com/live/yeA403uHdTw?feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/live/yeA403uHdTw?feature=share)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 22, 2023, 09:26
"The Parliamentary Assembly of the NATO countries recognized the actions of the Russian army against Ukrainians as genocide, and the ideology of the Russian Federation as rashism.
The Assembly also called on all NATO heads of state to declare their support for Ukraine in its aspiration to become a member of the alliance."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 23, 2023, 04:11
Fighting began in the Bryansk and Belgorod regions of fascist Russia. Either the Armed Forces of Ukraine have entered, or it is the Russian liberation army. In any case, the war from the territory of Ukraine must be transferred to the territory of the russian empire.
 ::)

https://youtu.be/5cxXcJL9pxE (https://youtu.be/5cxXcJL9pxE)
There are subtitles. Can be translated into any language.

Operational data: 30 square kilometers have already been liberated from the Russian fascist regime. Hmm.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 23, 2023, 14:14
Fighting began in the Bryansk and Belgorod regions of fascist Russia. Either the Armed Forces of Ukraine have entered, or it is the Russian liberation army. In any case, the war from the territory of Ukraine must be transferred to the territory of the russian empire.
 ::)

https://youtu.be/5cxXcJL9pxE (https://youtu.be/5cxXcJL9pxE)
There are subtitles. Can be translated into any language.

Operational data: 30 square kilometers have already been liberated from the Russian fascist regime. Hmm.

You do know that one of the two parties that engaged this adventure are fully engaged nazi's that are not allowed to enter the EU because of it. And it seems they are sponsored by Ukraine to do so. So with all your talk about fascists and * how do you respond to his. Which side do you choose? The fascist party that wants to overthrow Russia or fascist Russia? Really curious.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 24, 2023, 05:47
Fighting began in the Bryansk and Belgorod regions of fascist Russia. Either the Armed Forces of Ukraine have entered, or it is the Russian liberation army. In any case, the war from the territory of Ukraine must be transferred to the territory of the russian empire.
 ::)

https://youtu.be/5cxXcJL9pxE (https://youtu.be/5cxXcJL9pxE)
There are subtitles. Can be translated into any language.

Operational data: 30 square kilometers have already been liberated from the Russian fascist regime. Hmm.

You do know that one of the two parties that engaged this adventure are fully engaged nazi's that are not allowed to enter the EU because of it. And it seems they are sponsored by Ukraine to do so. So with all your talk about fascists and * how do you respond to his. Which side do you choose? The fascist party that wants to overthrow Russia or fascist Russia? Really curious.
1. I did not understand who was banned from entering the EU?
2. What fascist party are you talking about, there is no party at all. There are Russians who call themselves the liberation army.
What is happening now on the territory of Russia can be called a civil war, because. the armed forces of Ukraine are not there. But, in the conditions of the war with the Russian Empire, it is very likely that the Armed Forces of Ukraine can also enter the territory of Russia to create a buffer security zone 100 km into the roughness of Russia.
3. Naturally, Ukraine will support Russian partisans who want to fight the Russian army. There is no fascism here. The fascists are the Russians themselves, who pay taxes in Russia and support the occupation and genocide of Ukraine. But those Russians who became partisans are anti-fascists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 24, 2023, 06:59
This will remain as the biggest trolling in war history.

russia never admitted the invasion of Ukraine.
It was the "people of Donbas" who begged putin for help to fight the "Ukrainian fascists".
It was not the russians who started the war in Ukraine,  but "local freedom-fighting" militias.

Many were brainwashed by the russian propaganda and still believe this crap. Even in this forum there are a few poor souls who fell for it.

Now the same thing happens in the mirror.
It's not Ukraine occupying positions in Belgorod, but "russian freedom fighters".
It's a "civil war" inside russia, like it was in Ukraine since 2014. And maybe it will also become a special operation, but never a war.

Now it's only normal to ask russia to give up the Belgorod province in exchange for peace, like Ukraine was asked to give up its territories in exchange for peace.

Or maybe an independent Belgorod People's Republic should be declared because Ukraine needs a buffer zone inside russia to protect itself, like russia needed a buffer zone inside Ukraine to protect itself.

russian apologists are getting a taste of their own medicine.

It could have been funny if it wasn't tragic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 24, 2023, 07:14
This will remain as the biggest trolling in war history.

russia never admitted the invasion of Ukraine.
It was the "people of Donbas" who begged putin for help to fight the "Ukrainian fascists".
It was not the russians who started the war in Ukraine,  but "local freedom-fighting" militias.

Many were brainwashed by the russian propaganda and still believe this crap. Even in this forum there are a few poor souls who fell for it.

Now the same thing happens in the mirror.
It's not Ukraine occupying positions in Belgorod, but "russian freedom fighters".
It's a "civil war" inside russia, like it was in Ukraine since 2014. And maybe it will also become a special operation, but never a war.

Now it's only normal to ask russia to give up the Belgorod province in exchange for peace, like Ukraine was asked to give up its territories in exchange for peace.

Or maybe an independent Behorod republic should be declared because ukraine needs a buffer zone inside russia to protect itself, like russia needed a buffer zone inside Ukraine to protect itself.

russian apologists are getting a taste of their own medicine.

It could have been funny if it wasn't tragic.
I will add.
If Ukraine really needs a buffer zone with a fascist country, and this is not only the Belgorod region, but also the Kursk, Bryansk, Rostov and Voronezh regions, then the goal of the Russian empire is the occupation of all of Ukraine and the genocide of Ukrainians. Also, Russia's current goal is to occupy all of Eastern Europe, including Berlin.
From a military point of view, until the Russian empire is liquidated, a buffer zone inside Russia would be the best option. Now the Russians are shooting at the houses of Ukrainians in Kharkov, Chernigov, etc. The creation of a buffer zone would eliminate these attacks. Also, when the F16 is handed over to Ukraine, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will shoot down Russian planes and Russian missiles over the territory of Russia itself. This is all correct and fair.
But, I will say this, it is necessary to liquidate the Russian empire, the Russians threaten the whole world. There are several ways to liquidate.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 24, 2023, 10:45
Nobody should be needing any buffer zones in other countries.
Not russia, not Ukraine, not anyone.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 24, 2023, 12:29
Nobody should be needing any buffer zones in other countries.
Not russia, not Ukraine, not anyone.
This is because Russia does not fire artillery at residential buildings in other countries and does not send troops to other countries. (For now. If Russia is not stopped at the borders of Ukraine..)
The buffer zone will protect Ukrainian cities from artillery shelling and surprise attacks. The buffer zone must be demilitarized from russian troops.
And yes, in the civilized world, people cannot even imagine what Russia is and who the russians are. The Fascists and * in the 30-40s of the last century, you always need to remember them when it comes to Russians.  Which of them is worse is a big question, the russians are no better.
In any case, you yourself provided a map of the correct offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and there, on the map, these Russian regions were marked, on the territory of which the Armed Forces of Ukraine should enter.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 24, 2023, 13:15
Amazingly accurate predictions made by McCain, back in 2015:

https://youtu.be/HLAzeHnNgR8

Trump called him names, and now he's chestbeating himself, claiming he can "art of the deal" putin's "novorussia" ambitions in 24 hours, while MAGA sheep eat all this crap up, unchewed  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 24, 2023, 15:23
Fighting began in the Bryansk and Belgorod regions of fascist Russia. Either the Armed Forces of Ukraine have entered, or it is the Russian liberation army. In any case, the war from the territory of Ukraine must be transferred to the territory of the russian empire.
 ::)

https://youtu.be/5cxXcJL9pxE (https://youtu.be/5cxXcJL9pxE)
There are subtitles. Can be translated into any language.

Operational data: 30 square kilometers have already been liberated from the Russian fascist regime. Hmm.

You do know that one of the two parties that engaged this adventure are fully engaged nazi's that are not allowed to enter the EU because of it. And it seems they are sponsored by Ukraine to do so. So with all your talk about fascists and * how do you respond to his. Which side do you choose? The fascist party that wants to overthrow Russia or fascist Russia? Really curious.
1. I did not understand who was banned from entering the EU?
2. What fascist party are you talking about, there is no party at all. There are Russians who call themselves the liberation army.
What is happening now on the territory of Russia can be called a civil war, because. the armed forces of Ukraine are not there. But, in the conditions of the war with the Russian Empire, it is very likely that the Armed Forces of Ukraine can also enter the territory of Russia to create a buffer security zone 100 km into the roughness of Russia.
3. Naturally, Ukraine will support Russian partisans who want to fight the Russian army. There is no fascism here. The fascists are the Russians themselves, who pay taxes in Russia and support the occupation and genocide of Ukraine. But those Russians who became partisans are anti-fascists.

You really need to deepen a bit more when getting your info. There are two groups who did this. The Russian Volunteer Corps (RDK) and The Liberty of Russia Legion (FRL). The first one and I quote from BBC:
"Its leader is known as Denis Kapustin or Denis Nikitin, a Russian nationalist, and the group openly espouses a mono-ethnic Russian state.
In 2020, a Ukrainian investigative website alleged he had links to neo-Nazi groups and Nikitin has spoken in the past of belonging to a movement of football hooligans." Other news sources mention the same.

They both are based in Ukraine and say they are in contact with Ukranian military forces.

Wikipedia:"The group claims to be part of Ukraine's armed forces, but Ukrainian military officials say it is independent"

and

"The Russian Volunteer Corps (RVC) was founded in August 2022 by Denis Nikitin (real surname Kapustin), who has been described in media as a neo-Nazi football hooligan. He was born in Moscow, and moved to Germany in 2001 and lived there for several years; he returned to Russia in 2008 and founded the clothing brand White Rex before moving to Ukraine in 2017, where he was involved with far-right movements"

So, far-right, fascist guy that already lived in Ukraine and associated himself with nazist movement in Ukraine way before Russia invaded Ukraine.

If you are cheering for this guy while you despice fascism then please eloborate what it is you actually stand for?

More?

"Nikitin is famous for his nationalist clothing brand White Rex. It was created on August 14, 2008 - this date hints at the well-known Nazi code 14/88. The brand logo designed is based on the "Black Sun", another popular neo-Nazi symbol.

Nikitin also organized a mixed martial arts tournament “Spirit of the Warrior”, which became popular with far-right nationalists. The well-known neo-Nazi and ultra-right blogger Maxim Martsinkevich, known as Tesak, helped promote these tournaments. According to the Moscow Times, these tournaments started in Moscow, and afterwards also expanded to Italy, Hungary and Greece."

and concerning not entering the EU:
"Far-right activities led to the fact that in 2019 Nikitin was banned from entering the European Union for 10 years. Schengen zone for 10 years. Nevertheless, according to Bellingcat, he continued to actively participate in the activities of the far right in Germany, France, Bulgaria and other countries without entering them."

Nice people :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 24, 2023, 15:38
Nice people :)
I have no idea what these people are and who they really are. I have little interest in the personalities of Russian partisans. But since such information has gone, I think the KGB (FSB) of Russia has connected to this issue, and most likely this is Russian propaganda, and the article is custom-made.
For me personally, fascists are those who kill Ukrainian children, women, occupy Ukrainian cities. I don't know what the leaders of these movements did wrong. But I know that they did only one thing, they went to fight against the Russian fascists. That's all I know. But you can follow Russian propaganda and consider all those who are now fighting against rashism to be criminals.
By the way, the so-called Russian "opposition" is now throwing mud at these Russian partisans, because they understand that if they win, then this pocket "opposition" of Putin will be thrown into the trash of history.
I am sure that if the Russian partisans were fascists, they certainly would not have fought against Putin.

And at the expense of sanctions, since the United States kept the Ukrainian regiment "Azov" under sanctions for a long time, in the United States they believed that the * were fighting there. But since February last year, as far as I know, the United States has lifted these sanctions. For reference, only the most devoted to Ukraine patriots have always fought in the Azov regiment.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 24, 2023, 15:44
Do also remember that Svoboda which is a far-right nazi party obtained most of it's popularity in West-Ukraine, not in the east. So, you can call Russia fascists and Nazi's but it was them, together with Western countries, fighting against Hitler's Germany. And it's the western part of Ukraine who embraces now, and in the recent past, this far-right idealism, not the eastern part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

This nazi party took a substantial role in overthrowing the sitting government during the maiden protests.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 24, 2023, 15:50
Do also remember that Svoboda which is a far-right nazi party obtained most of it's popularity in West-Ukraine, not in the east. So, you can call Russia fascists and Nazi's but it was them, together with Western countries, fighting against Hitler's Germany. And it's the western part of Ukraine who embraces now, and in the recent past, this far-right idealism, not the eastern part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

This nazi party took a substantial role in overthrowing the sitting government during the maiden protests.
You have added to the list of those who quote Russian propaganda here on the forum. With which I congratulate you.
As for the "Svoboda" party, this movement has never been fascist, it's all Russian propaganda.
And yes, during the Second World War, Germany and the USSR were fascist countries that started a war in Europe and occupied foreign countries. The fact that the United States accepted the USSR into the anti-Hitler coalition only says that Germany was more dangerous at that time than the USSR. But this is a separate conversation, you seem to know the story poorly. And there are people here who can explain it better to you if they want to.
Germany has not been a fascist country for a very long time, but Russia, as it was a fascist country, has remained so. Therefore, now the entire civilized world is at war with Russian fascism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 24, 2023, 15:51
Nice people :)
I have no idea what these people are and who they really are. I have little interest in the personalities of Russian partisans. But since such information has gone, I think the KGB (FSB) of Russia has connected to this issue, and most likely this is Russian propaganda, and the article is custom-made.
For me personally, fascists are those who kill Ukrainian children, women, occupy Ukrainian cities. I don't know what the leaders of these movements did wrong. But I know that they did only one thing, they went to fight against the Russian fascists. That's all I know. But you can follow Russian propaganda and consider all those who are now fighting against rashism to be criminals.
By the way, the so-called Russian "opposition" is now throwing mud at these Russian partisans, because they understand that if they win, then this pocket "opposition" of Putin will be thrown into the trash of history.
I am sure that if the Russian partisans were fascists, they certainly would not have fought against Putin.

And at the expense of sanctions, since the United States kept the Ukrainian regiment "Azov" under sanctions for a long time, in the United States they believed that the * were fighting there. But since February last year, as far as I know, the United States has lifted these sanctions. For reference, only the most devoted to Ukraine patriots have always fought in the Azov regiment.
It's common knowledge if you just read normal western media. It's not Russian propoganda. Do look in your local media and you will find it as well. I gave you a link of the BBC. Or are they propogating Russia's information as well?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 24, 2023, 15:52
Do also remember that Svoboda which is a far-right nazi party obtained most of it's popularity in West-Ukraine, not in the east. So, you can call Russia fascists and Nazi's but it was them, together with Western countries, fighting against Hitler's Germany. And it's the western part of Ukraine who embraces now, and in the recent past, this far-right idealism, not the eastern part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)

This nazi party took a substantial role in overthrowing the sitting government during the maiden protests.
You have added to the list of those who quote Russian propaganda here on the forum. With which I congratulate you.
As for the "Svoboda" party, this movement has never been fascist, it's all Russian propaganda.
And yes, during the Second World War, Germany and the USSR were fascist countries that started a war in Europe and occupied foreign countries. The fact that the United States accepted the USSR into the anti-Hitler coalition only says that Germany was more dangerous at that time than the USSR. But this is a separate conversation, you seem to know the story poorly. And there are people here who can explain it better to you if they want to.
Germany has not been a fascist country for a very long time, but Russia, as it was a fascist country, has remained so. Therefore, now the entire civilized world is at war with Russian fascism.
Do you even read the links I send you? It's coming from your homeground, if that is the US. And you don't have a clue about WOII, do you?

"The fact that the United States accepted the USSR into the anti-Hitler coalition only says that Germany was more dangerous at that time than the USSR". Really, that is how you think it went down?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 25, 2023, 06:58
Nice people :)
I have no idea what these people are and who they really are. I have little interest in the personalities of Russian partisans. But since such information has gone, I think the KGB (FSB) of Russia has connected to this issue, and most likely this is Russian propaganda, and the article is custom-made.
For me personally, fascists are those who kill Ukrainian children, women, occupy Ukrainian cities. I don't know what the leaders of these movements did wrong. But I know that they did only one thing, they went to fight against the Russian fascists. That's all I know. But you can follow Russian propaganda and consider all those who are now fighting against rashism to be criminals.
By the way, the so-called Russian "opposition" is now throwing mud at these Russian partisans, because they understand that if they win, then this pocket "opposition" of Putin will be thrown into the trash of history.
I am sure that if the Russian partisans were fascists, they certainly would not have fought against Putin.

And at the expense of sanctions, since the United States kept the Ukrainian regiment "Azov" under sanctions for a long time, in the United States they believed that the * were fighting there. But since February last year, as far as I know, the United States has lifted these sanctions. For reference, only the most devoted to Ukraine patriots have always fought in the Azov regiment.
It's common knowledge if you just read normal western media. It's not Russian propoganda. Do look in your local media and you will find it as well. I gave you a link of the BBC. Or are they propogating Russia's information as well?
1. I don't see your link.
2. You need to think, and not blindly believe what is published. The same New York Times very often publishes articles with Russian propaganda. And the Fox channel is the mouthpiece of Russian propaganda in the United States. And what?
As I already wrote here in the subject, a lot of agents of the Kremlin, Putin and the KGB work in democratic countries. Even the Russian "opposition" is, in fact, a bunch of Rashists. And even today, in democratic countries, many listen to what Russians say and believe them.
3. Therefore, your text is the work of either the KGB or the Russian opposition.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 25, 2023, 11:46
Nice people :)
I have no idea what these people are and who they really are. I have little interest in the personalities of Russian partisans. But since such information has gone, I think the KGB (FSB) of Russia has connected to this issue, and most likely this is Russian propaganda, and the article is custom-made.
For me personally, fascists are those who kill Ukrainian children, women, occupy Ukrainian cities. I don't know what the leaders of these movements did wrong. But I know that they did only one thing, they went to fight against the Russian fascists. That's all I know. But you can follow Russian propaganda and consider all those who are now fighting against rashism to be criminals.
By the way, the so-called Russian "opposition" is now throwing mud at these Russian partisans, because they understand that if they win, then this pocket "opposition" of Putin will be thrown into the trash of history.
I am sure that if the Russian partisans were fascists, they certainly would not have fought against Putin.

And at the expense of sanctions, since the United States kept the Ukrainian regiment "Azov" under sanctions for a long time, in the United States they believed that the * were fighting there. But since February last year, as far as I know, the United States has lifted these sanctions. For reference, only the most devoted to Ukraine patriots have always fought in the Azov regiment.
It's common knowledge if you just read normal western media. It's not Russian propoganda. Do look in your local media and you will find it as well. I gave you a link of the BBC. Or are they propogating Russia's information as well?
1. I don't see your link.
2. You need to think, and not blindly believe what is published. The same New York Times very often publishes articles with Russian propaganda. And the Fox channel is the mouthpiece of Russian propaganda in the United States. And what?
As I already wrote here in the subject, a lot of agents of the Kremlin, Putin and the KGB work in democratic countries. Even the Russian "opposition" is, in fact, a bunch of Rashists. And even today, in democratic countries, many listen to what Russians say and believe them.
3. Therefore, your text is the work of either the KGB or the Russian opposition.

Sorry, thought I posted the link from the BBC as well. Here it is: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65681806 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65681806)

All I am saying is that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend. There are Nazi movements in Ukraine that are fighting alongside the army of Ukraine, that have been in government after the coup. And you might not believe it but their numbers are pretty big. So, for someone like you that hates (rightfully so) nazism and fascists I would look twice at the people you are cheering for. Also, other then fascism or nazism, Ukraine was in the top five countries of being most corrupt in the world. I, as an European citizen, am not very keen on them entering the EU. I think West Ukraine may decide how they want to live (but please not become an EU member, NATO is ok) but I also think that East Ukraine has that right as well. And that last group is where this whole mess is all about. Their wishes and demands were  completely ignored by the West (current Ukranian government, the EU and the US). Things could have been averted if all wishes were being respected earlier. It's still not an excuse for Russia for invading Ukraine but it might have been prevented.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 26, 2023, 04:56
SVH, I don't read authors who write Russian propaganda. All your texts are 100% Russian propaganda. I have to put you on ignore.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 26, 2023, 05:01
Interview with a Russian partisan from the Freedom of Russia Legion. There are English subtitles (you can choose English translation in the subtitle settings).
The cowardice of the fascist Russian army, the future of youth in Russia, Russian propaganda, which now all over the world calls partisans terrorists and fascists, is discussed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h-9M-wU1Qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h-9M-wU1Qo)
In 2 days, Russian partisans were able to take control of 40 square kilometers of Russia. This offensive helped to withdraw part of the Russian terrorist troops from Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on May 26, 2023, 16:51
SVH, I don't read authors who write Russian propaganda. All your texts are 100% Russian propaganda. I have to put you on ignore.
I thought you already put me on the ignore list. I guess some Russian hacked you and removed me from it :)

But you are completely right, let's ignore eachother. You are thinking so in black and white, it's difficult to have to have a discussion with you about the more grey areas of reality. Good luck with your blinders on.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 28, 2023, 15:32
Amazingly accurate predictions made by McCain, back in 2015:

https://youtu.be/HLAzeHnNgR8

Trump called him names, and now he's chestbeating himself, claiming he can "art of the deal" putin's "novorussia" ambitions in 24 hours, while MAGA sheep eat all this crap up, unchewed  ::)
Yes, populism and insanity lead to disasters.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 31, 2023, 02:19
I am answering the question "Injustice for all", asked by him in the profile topic.

"Frankly,I don't believe everything I read,nor the fact that Putin expected to win the war in 3 days and that he had given rations to the army for 3 days,not even if Putin himself said it,because he could say it for any personal or political reasons."

When the armed forces of Ukraine destroyed the columns of Russian heavy equipment and destroyed the vehicles accompanying them, a lot of dress Russian uniforms were found. They advanced with this uniform. This is a proven fact. But, I don't see much point in discussing it.

"But I am sure of one thing,that continuing to fuel these contrasts by pointing fingers and calling the Russians fascists does not help anyone,and it is precisely this mentality that must be set aside."

And how it was necessary to call the fascists in the 30-40s of the last century? Other countries didn't call them fascists, they traded with them, helped their economy, as a result they got the second world war.

"But then I would like to understand one thing,since the Russians say in their photos that Crimea is Russia then they are all fascists?"

Yes, Russian fascists and rashists, because in this way they support the fascist system and support its "successes". Putin, seeing such support, continues to do what the Russian electorate likes.

"You say”Russians live for many centuries only by wars,occupation and robbery”.
Like every other countries in the history as far as I know!
"

There are only three medieval empires left on planet Earth, these are Russia, China and Iran. Also in the topic, we also talked about fascism, as well as the genocide of other peoples.
For yourself, you must decide in which century you personally live.

"I know,we still have a long way to go,but I'm sure one day we'll figure it out,I just hope not too late."

Of course, we will figure it out, the armed forces of Ukraine liquidate Russian fascists and terrorists every day, and all democratic countries supply weapons to Ukraine through Lend-Lease.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on May 31, 2023, 10:06
Thanks for the reply and for moving the thread to a more appropriate topic.

I served in the Italian army in the 90s,and I think war is not the solution today,in the past maybe but not today,but show with firmness and determination that you are ready to fight for the values ​​of freedom and democracy,yes I believe in this.

I believe that in this scenario an USA republican government would have been more suitable to manage this crisis,instead a democratic USA government was more suitable to manage the health crisis we have gone through.

Why do i believe this?because in my opinion this bloodshed had to be stopped from the beginning,when Putin was massing troops in Belarus and preparing to invade Ukraine,even though it is not a member country of NATO and EU it was necessary to defend the European borders,and more than anything else demonstrate to the whole world that such actions are no longer tolerable.

What would have happened in my opinion?Nothing!Because the Russians could not and cannot unleash a third world war,therefore a diplomatic solution had to be reached.
Instead the democratic world did not want to get its hands dirty and act with firmness and determination and now the situation has degenerated.

I am and remain convinced that the Russian population for the most part and above all the under 50s do not want war,and Putin has lost and continues to lose the support of the population.

In my opinion,Putin and those who support him are now only the shadow of a Russian Federation now in extinction,I don't think he will be supported by his army and population much longer.
NATO will continue to expand,and its attempt to stop it is bound to fail,and the most cultured and educated and most modern Russian population knows it.

So let's stop accusing the Russian population of being fascists,the fault here lies in a backward Government which is doomed to fail.




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 31, 2023, 10:22
Thanks for the reply and for moving the thread to a more appropriate topic.

I served in the Italian army in the 90s,and I think war is not the solution today,in the past maybe but not today,but show with firmness and determination that you are ready to fight for the values ​​of freedom and democracy,yes I believe in this.

I believe that in this scenario an USA republican government would have been more suitable to manage this crisis,instead a democratic USA government was more suitable to manage the health crisis we have gone through.

Why do i believe this?because in my opinion this bloodshed had to be stopped from the beginning,when Putin was massing troops in Belarus and preparing to invade Ukraine,even though it is not a member country of NATO and EU it was necessary to defend the European borders,and more than anything else demonstrate to the whole world that such actions are no longer tolerable.

What would have happened in my opinion?Nothing!Because the Russians could not and cannot unleash a third world war,therefore a diplomatic solution had to be reached.
Instead the democratic world did not want to get its hands dirty and act with firmness and determination and now the situation has degenerated.

I am and remain convinced that the Russian population for the most part and above all the under 50s do not want war,and Putin has lost and continues to lose the support of the population.

In my opinion,Putin and those who support him are now only the shadow of a Russian Federation now in extinction,I don't think he will be supported by his army and population much longer.
NATO will continue to expand,and its attempt to stop it is bound to fail,and the most cultured and educated and most modern Russian population knows it.

So let's stop accusing the Russian population of being fascists,the fault here lies in a backward Government which is doomed to fail.

In a way you are right. The bloodshed could have been stopped if Ukraine was part of NATO, or if NATO would have had the guts to declare and maintain a no-fly zone over Ukraine. But many weak politicians were afraid to call putin's bluff. By failing to do that, they emboldened him and gave him the impression that he is too strong to be opposed.

Only recently, most of these politicians realized that we must call putin's bluff and even raise the ante, or else things may become worse.
Better late than never, but it's so sad to see how many lives were lost because of political indecisiveness and failed appeasements attempts (e.g. Macron being ridiculed by putin with that long kremlin table)

And, please, repeat after me: NATO IS NOT EXPANDING. NATO is joined!

NATO was joined by independent free countries, who knew well too well what it meant to live for decades, as colonies, under the soviet/russian boot (+Finland, with their own tragic russian experince)

Let's also remember that the bloodshed can be stopped tomorrow, if putin decides to withdraw and restore Ukraine's freedom and territorial integrity.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 31, 2023, 12:16
I served in the Italian army in the 90s,and I think war is not the solution today,in the past maybe but not today,but show with firmness and determination that you are ready to fight for the values ​​of freedom and democracy,yes I believe in this.
400 thousand Russian terrorist soldiers are on the territory of Ukraine and kill Ukrainians. The war has already been going on for more than a year, and it is already too late to say that the war is not a solution to the problem.
Here is a summary of the losses of the Russian army for today.

https://dnepr.express/storage/media/publishing-media/2023/05/31/1685515513-i11yz/conversions/347266304-815387743262847-819151559394317021-n-optimized.jpg

In my opinion, many were afraid of Russia. In NATO countries, few people want to draw their country into a direct war, so only Ukrainians are waging war. Let's not forget that China supports Russia and may also join it.
But yes, it was possible to impose sanctions against Russia back in the 90s of the last century, not to mention 2014, when Russia launched a war against Ukraine.

I am and remain convinced that the Russian population for the most part and above all the under 50s do not want war,and Putin has lost and continues to lose the support of the population.
I read that in Italy they treat Russians very well. I also read that the Italian government supported Russia and Putin for a long time. There are many KGB (FSB) agents in Italy.
As for the Russians, I have not yet met a single Russian who could answer 5 questions. The Russian opposition cannot answer these questions either.
I bring these questions here, you can ask them to all the Russians you meet. And you will find that most Russians (of all ages) are happy with Putin's results, some just don't like the methods. At the same time, the Russians do nothing to fight their fascist regime. More precisely, they do, but this is only 1% of their entire population, if not less.

1. Whose Crimea?
2. Should the Russian Empire continue to exist within today's borders? Or do oppressed peoples have the right to secede and create their own nation-states?
3. Should all war criminals who kill Ukrainians or help them be punished?
4. Should Russia withdraw its troops from Ukraine, Crimea, Donbass?
5. Should Russia pay reparations to Ukraine and Ukrainians for those killed, for destroyed cities, destroyed ecology and other losses?




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 31, 2023, 12:43
Let's also remember that the bloodshed can be stopped tomorrow, if putin decides to withdraw and restore Ukraine's freedom and territorial integrity.
I am sure that most Russians will not support such a decision. The Russian Empire rests only on wars, occupation, murders, terror and robbery. The Russians would consider such a scenario a capitulation. Voluntarily, the Russians will definitely not do this. But the F16 fighters handed over to Ukraine will help the Russians quickly escape from Ukraine.
Also, let's not forget that the Russian empire is a threat to the whole world. It is necessary to liquidate the Russian empire and destroy the fascist and rashist regime in Russia.
As an intermediate option, Ukraine should be in NATO. Or Ukraine needs to create a 100 km buffer zone deep into Russia along the entire joint border. Only Ukrainian troops should be in this buffer zone. I already wrote about this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on May 31, 2023, 20:11
Thanks for the reply and for moving the thread to a more appropriate topic.

I served in the Italian army in the 90s,and I think war is not the solution today,in the past maybe but not today,but show with firmness and determination that you are ready to fight for the values ​​of freedom and democracy,yes I believe in this.

I believe that in this scenario an USA republican government would have been more suitable to manage this crisis,instead a democratic USA government was more suitable to manage the health crisis we have gone through.

Why do i believe this?because in my opinion this bloodshed had to be stopped from the beginning,when Putin was massing troops in Belarus and preparing to invade Ukraine,even though it is not a member country of NATO and EU it was necessary to defend the European borders,and more than anything else demonstrate to the whole world that such actions are no longer tolerable.

What would have happened in my opinion?Nothing!Because the Russians could not and cannot unleash a third world war,therefore a diplomatic solution had to be reached.
Instead the democratic world did not want to get its hands dirty and act with firmness and determination and now the situation has degenerated.

I am and remain convinced that the Russian population for the most part and above all the under 50s do not want war,and Putin has lost and continues to lose the support of the population.

In my opinion,Putin and those who support him are now only the shadow of a Russian Federation now in extinction,I don't think he will be supported by his army and population much longer.
NATO will continue to expand,and its attempt to stop it is bound to fail,and the most cultured and educated and most modern Russian population knows it.

So let's stop accusing the Russian population of being fascists,the fault here lies in a backward Government which is doomed to fail.

In a way you are right. The bloodshed could have been stopped if Ukraine was part of NATO, or if NATO would have had the guts to declare and maintain a no-fly zone over Ukraine. But many weak politicians were afraid to call putin's bluff. By failing to do that, they emboldened him and gave him the impression that he is too strong to be opposed.

Only recently, most of these politicians realized that we must call putin's bluff and even raise the ante, or else things may become worse.
Better late than never, but it's so sad to see how many lives were lost because of political indecisiveness and failed appeasements attempts (e.g. Macron being ridiculed by putin with that long kremlin table)

And, please, repeat after me: NATO IS NOT EXPANDING. NATO is joined!

NATO was joined by independent free countries, who knew well too well what it meant to live for decades, as colonies, under the soviet/russian boot (+Finland, with their own tragic russian experince)

Let's also remember that the bloodshed can be stopped tomorrow, if putin decides to withdraw and restore Ukraine's freedom and territorial integrity.

Yes,and I also think that Putin definitely assessed the current US political situation and thought it was the right time to invade Ukraine.
Frankly I always thought from the first moment that Putin's game was just a bluff,because I know a little how he thinks,and if anyone hasn't seen it,I recommend seeing "the Putin interviews" by Oliver Stone,a documentary about 3 hours.

fully agree on the no-fly zone,both for all the bloodshed and destruction,but also for the safety of NATO members due to nuclear power plants in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on May 31, 2023, 20:30
I served in the Italian army in the 90s,and I think war is not the solution today,in the past maybe but not today,but show with firmness and determination that you are ready to fight for the values ​​of freedom and democracy,yes I believe in this.
400 thousand Russian terrorist soldiers are on the territory of Ukraine and kill Ukrainians. The war has already been going on for more than a year, and it is already too late to say that the war is not a solution to the problem.
Here is a summary of the losses of the Russian army for today.

https://dnepr.express/storage/media/publishing-media/2023/05/31/1685515513-i11yz/conversions/347266304-815387743262847-819151559394317021-n-optimized.jpg

In my opinion, many were afraid of Russia. In NATO countries, few people want to draw their country into a direct war, so only Ukrainians are waging war. Let's not forget that China supports Russia and may also join it.
But yes, it was possible to impose sanctions against Russia back in the 90s of the last century, not to mention 2014, when Russia launched a war against Ukraine.

I am and remain convinced that the Russian population for the most part and above all the under 50s do not want war,and Putin has lost and continues to lose the support of the population.
I read that in Italy they treat Russians very well. I also read that the Italian government supported Russia and Putin for a long time. There are many KGB (FSB) agents in Italy.
As for the Russians, I have not yet met a single Russian who could answer 5 questions. The Russian opposition cannot answer these questions either.
I bring these questions here, you can ask them to all the Russians you meet. And you will find that most Russians (of all ages) are happy with Putin's results, some just don't like the methods. At the same time, the Russians do nothing to fight their fascist regime. More precisely, they do, but this is only 1% of their entire population, if not less.

1. Whose Crimea?
2. Should the Russian Empire continue to exist within today's borders? Or do oppressed peoples have the right to secede and create their own nation-states?
3. Should all war criminals who kill Ukrainians or help them be punished?
4. Should Russia withdraw its troops from Ukraine, Crimea, Donbass?
5. Should Russia pay reparations to Ukraine and Ukrainians for those killed, for destroyed cities, destroyed ecology and other losses?


war is never the solution,in today's times more than ever.

yes,Russia is squandering a patrimony and is destined to lose,about this I think that by now no one has any doubts,and it is also a dangerous situation because in desperation,desperate acts can be carried out,also for this reason it was necessary to act first and not allow the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Nuclear weapons scares,but this is precisely Putin's bluff,he has no intention of unleashing WWIII,and therefore unfortunately the US and EU governments,and all of NATO stood by giving support to Ukraine and we were even too slow after and we allowed all of this.

I don't think China will support Russia in any war directed against NATO.

Italy is among the Western countries that has always had good relations with Russia,in my opinion perhaps even the best ever in Europe,also and above all at a commercial level.Italy is among the first 4 countries in the world to operate import-export with the Russia,if I remember right,and unfortunately is almost completely dependent on Russian gas,many cultural exchanges,many Russian students come to Italy to study art above all,and there has always been mutual help,support and sympathy practically since always.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine changed of course many of this things,for example we will be able to be independent from Russian gas most likely by the end of 2023.
Italy's position has changed especially since the end of 2022 when the new right-wing Italian government was established with Giorgia Meloni the first woman ever in Italy to be prime minister.

We support Ukraine in this war,we are among the top 10 countries that donated the most to Ukraine,we have given full cooperation in the sanctions imposed on Russia,we host hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugee/friends.

In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 02:26
In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.
:o
Who are you going to give the Ukrainian Crimea to? Maybe also separate Sicily from Italy?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 03:36
Russians are not fascists
1. Study this topic on pages 12-13.
2. Talk to Ukrainian refugees from the war zone.
3. The Italian media are very merciful and protect the psyche of their citizens, so they don’t show you even 10% of what is happening in Ukraine. This is so that the Italians do not start hunting Russians on the streets of Italy.
4. Rather than write from Italy, being several thousand kilometers from the front, it is better to come to the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine. You can go there through Russia. When you arrive, say that you are for Ukraine. After that, you will be taken to a concentration camp, there are a lot of them, and in a few minutes you will quickly realize that you have fallen into the hands of the Gestapo.
5. Naturally, the media do not publish photos of Russian atrocities against women and children. But in Ukraine, in state institutions, upon request, they will show you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 03:41
I don't think China will support Russia in any war directed against NATO.
Now China supports Russia and helps it economically, and also helps the Russians to get weapons from Iran, North Korea and other fascist countries. China supplies electronics to Russia, which allows the Russians to produce rockets. Also, China is preparing for a war with the United States, and this has already been written a lot. Everything is connected there. The democratic world is at war with the 3-headed dragon. The central head is China, the head on the right is Russia, the head on the left is Iran. The dragon has 2 more hands, the first is North Korea, and the second is Belarus.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on June 01, 2023, 14:51
In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.
:o
Who are you going to give the Ukrainian Crimea to? Maybe also separate Sicily from Italy?

I think Crimea has to decide for Crimea,with all due respect of course,we don't know each other,maybe I'm wrong I don't know,but in my opinion you take too many things for granted,often things are not as they seem.
And to answer your question,yes of course,if Sicily ever wanted to separate from Italy,who are we Italians to oppose the will of the Sicilians?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on June 01, 2023, 15:00
Russians are not fascists
1. Study this topic on pages 12-13.
2. Talk to Ukrainian refugees from the war zone.
3. The Italian media are very merciful and protect the psyche of their citizens, so they don’t show you even 10% of what is happening in Ukraine. This is so that the Italians do not start hunting Russians on the streets of Italy.
4. Rather than write from Italy, being several thousand kilometers from the front, it is better to come to the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine. You can go there through Russia. When you arrive, say that you are for Ukraine. After that, you will be taken to a concentration camp, there are a lot of them, and in a few minutes you will quickly realize that you have fallen into the hands of the Gestapo.
5. Naturally, the media do not publish photos of Russian atrocities against women and children. But in Ukraine, in state institutions, upon request, they will show you.

Ok I understand your point of view,I respect and understand it but I don't agree,in my opinion the majority of the Russian population doesn't want any war and they are not fascists.
Here in Italy there is no censorship,the atrocities committed against civilian targets,women and children are atrocities committed by the Russian government not by the Russian population.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on June 01, 2023, 15:05
I don't think China will support Russia in any war directed against NATO.
Now China supports Russia and helps it economically, and also helps the Russians to get weapons from Iran, North Korea and other fascist countries. China supplies electronics to Russia, which allows the Russians to produce rockets. Also, China is preparing for a war with the United States, and this has already been written a lot. Everything is connected there. The democratic world is at war with the 3-headed dragon. The central head is China, the head on the right is Russia, the head on the left is Iran. The dragon has 2 more hands, the first is North Korea, and the second is Belarus.

China has important economic and commercial interests that it shares with Russia but will never get involved in an open conflict against NATO.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on June 01, 2023, 15:48
In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.
:o
Who are you going to give the Ukrainian Crimea to? Maybe also separate Sicily from Italy?

I think Crimea has to decide for Crimea,with all due respect of course,we don't know each other,maybe I'm wrong I don't know,but in my opinion you take too many things for granted,often things are not as they seem.
And to answer your question,yes of course,if Sicily ever wanted to separate from Italy,who are we Italians to oppose the will of the Sicilians?

How is it even possible to truly know what Crimea wants, or say to whom Crimea truly belongs to after a history of changing hands for so many times?

It's a good example of how one-sided imaginary nationalism and made up borders will never able to provide a sustainable and stable solution for any region in the world that's subject of territory claims.

Many countries and regions in the more civilized part of the world found a solution for that: federal states with high degrees of self-government.
Is it perfect? No. Does it bring peace? Political turmoil aside: yes it does.

Plenty of examples to be found on the European continent where regions who feel they don't really fit in the country that claims their territory have gotten a fair amount of self-government through a democratic process. Many of those regions have had violent struggles, but they were all somehow able to leave it all behind because both sides came to the conclusion they couldn't win, and decided to continue their battle politically. Still a lot of crap going on, but at least, regular innocent people minding their own business won't get shot or bombed anymore, and many of those regions thrive and increased their general welfare.

 


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 01, 2023, 16:01
As discussed before, interesting comment below.

This move should free up troops currently locked along the western border (454km long) allowing them to be redeployed in the east.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 16:06
Russians are not fascists
1. Study this topic on pages 12-13.
2. Talk to Ukrainian refugees from the war zone.
3. The Italian media are very merciful and protect the psyche of their citizens, so they don’t show you even 10% of what is happening in Ukraine. This is so that the Italians do not start hunting Russians on the streets of Italy.
4. Rather than write from Italy, being several thousand kilometers from the front, it is better to come to the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine. You can go there through Russia. When you arrive, say that you are for Ukraine. After that, you will be taken to a concentration camp, there are a lot of them, and in a few minutes you will quickly realize that you have fallen into the hands of the Gestapo.
5. Naturally, the media do not publish photos of Russian atrocities against women and children. But in Ukraine, in state institutions, upon request, they will show you.

Ok I understand your point of view,I respect and understand it but I don't agree,in my opinion the majority of the Russian population doesn't want any war and they are not fascists.
Here in Italy there is no censorship,the atrocities committed against civilian targets,women and children are atrocities committed by the Russian government not by the Russian population.
It is not the Russian government that crossed the Ukrainian border, and it is not Russian officials who kill people, it is the Russian people who do it.
I heard you, but you are poorly versed in the Russians and what they want. It is enough to read their forums and social networks, there is sheer hatred and propaganda. Yes, and here on the forum, the Russians are mostly silent.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 16:09
In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.
:o
Who are you going to give the Ukrainian Crimea to? Maybe also separate Sicily from Italy?

I think Crimea has to decide for Crimea,with all due respect of course,we don't know each other,maybe I'm wrong I don't know,but in my opinion you take too many things for granted,often things are not as they seem.
And to answer your question,yes of course,if Sicily ever wanted to separate from Italy,who are we Italians to oppose the will of the Sicilians?
Crimea occupied by Russian troops in 2014. This is an occupied territory that will be liberated by Ukraine by military means. You don't know history.
What is written in the Italian Constitution about the separation of the regions from it? Obviously this is possible only after a national referendum? If at all possible. With such statements, you and Italy as a country will be liquidated in the end :).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 16:13
MatHayward does not answer questions. So what about Adobe, does it really give away its programs to all Russians for free?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 16:15
Roscoe, wake up, the war in Europe is on, this is not the time to fantasize. Read at least this entire topic, you will be a little aware of events.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 01, 2023, 16:16
As discussed before, interesting comment below.

This move should free up troops currently locked along the western border (454km long) allowing them to be redeployed in the east.
Do you think the Russians will withdraw troops from Transnistria? Voluntarily? I doubt it very much. Moldova may need to open a second front.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 01, 2023, 16:50
As discussed before, interesting comment below.

This move should free up troops currently locked along the western border (454km long) allowing them to be redeployed in the east.
Do you think the Russians will withdraw troops from Transnistria? Voluntarily? I doubt it very much. Moldova may need to open a second front.

All the European state and government leaders are in Moldova today. This topic must have been on the table.
Poland just announced that they sent a huge amount of military equipment to Moldova.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on June 01, 2023, 17:27
In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.
:o
Who are you going to give the Ukrainian Crimea to? Maybe also separate Sicily from Italy?

I think Crimea has to decide for Crimea,with all due respect of course,we don't know each other,maybe I'm wrong I don't know,but in my opinion you take too many things for granted,often things are not as they seem.
And to answer your question,yes of course,if Sicily ever wanted to separate from Italy,who are we Italians to oppose the will of the Sicilians?

How is it even possible to truly know what Crimea wants, or say to whom Crimea truly belongs to after a history of changing hands for so many times?

It's a good example of how one-sided imaginary nationalism and made up borders will never able to provide a sustainable and stable solution for any region in the world that's subject of territory claims.

Many countries and regions in the more civilized part of the world found a solution for that: federal states with high degrees of self-government.
Is it perfect? No. Does it bring peace? Political turmoil aside: yes it does.

Plenty of examples to be found on the European continent where regions who feel they don't really fit in the country that claims their territory have gotten a fair amount of self-government through a democratic process. Many of those regions have had violent struggles, but they were all somehow able to leave it all behind because both sides came to the conclusion they couldn't win, and decided to continue their battle politically. Still a lot of crap going on, but at least, regular innocent people minding their own business won't get shot or bombed anymore, and many of those regions thrive and increased their general welfare.

yes,I absolutely cannot counter such an argument because it is the truth,Crimea is in total confusion,I think a referendum can clarify but,
the last referendum in 2014 was declared illegal by Ukraine because Ukraine itself feared that the independent republic of Crimea could become part of the Russian Federation,furthermore,in 2014 Crimea itself declared itself independent from Ukraine.
Crimea was given back to Ukraine by the United Nations General Assembly which declared the last referendum invalid,Russia has never accepted this result,China also abstained at the time.

China abstained and was never openly opposed to the referendum result,which says a lot about China's intentions in an open NATO conflict against Russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 02, 2023, 03:08
In my opinion,Russians are not fascists and Crimea should be free and independent from Russia and Ukraine,but I think we need an official referendum for this managed by Europe,United States,Russia and Ukraine,because it is a territory thrown into total chaos for too long.
:o
Who are you going to give the Ukrainian Crimea to? Maybe also separate Sicily from Italy?

I think Crimea has to decide for Crimea,with all due respect of course,we don't know each other,maybe I'm wrong I don't know,but in my opinion you take too many things for granted,often things are not as they seem.
And to answer your question,yes of course,if Sicily ever wanted to separate from Italy,who are we Italians to oppose the will of the Sicilians?

How is it even possible to truly know what Crimea wants, or say to whom Crimea truly belongs to after a history of changing hands for so many times?

It's a good example of how one-sided imaginary nationalism and made up borders will never able to provide a sustainable and stable solution for any region in the world that's subject of territory claims.

Many countries and regions in the more civilized part of the world found a solution for that: federal states with high degrees of self-government.
Is it perfect? No. Does it bring peace? Political turmoil aside: yes it does.

Plenty of examples to be found on the European continent where regions who feel they don't really fit in the country that claims their territory have gotten a fair amount of self-government through a democratic process. Many of those regions have had violent struggles, but they were all somehow able to leave it all behind because both sides came to the conclusion they couldn't win, and decided to continue their battle politically. Still a lot of crap going on, but at least, regular innocent people minding their own business won't get shot or bombed anymore, and many of those regions thrive and increased their general welfare.

yes,I absolutely cannot counter such an argument because it is the truth,Crimea is in total confusion,I think a referendum can clarify but,
the last referendum in 2014 was declared illegal by Ukraine because Ukraine itself feared that the independent republic of Crimea could become part of the Russian Federation,furthermore,in 2014 Crimea itself declared itself independent from Ukraine.
Crimea was given back to Ukraine by the United Nations General Assembly which declared the last referendum invalid,Russia has never accepted this result,China also abstained at the time.

China abstained and was never openly opposed to the referendum result,which says a lot about China's intentions in an open NATO conflict against Russia.
No, this is a lie. You are repeating Russian propaganda. Crimea is just a territory where the Crimean Tatars lived and live, whom the Russians deported under Stalin. So, ask the Crimean Tatars if they want Crimea not to be part of Ukraine. The answer will be negative.
No need to try to challenge the territorial integrity of Ukraine here on the forum. It is only terrorist and fascist countries that promote the idea of separating Crimea from Ukraine. Read international treaties from the 90s of the last century. Such statements of yours may fall under criminal prosecution.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 02, 2023, 06:24
As discussed before, interesting comment below.

This move should free up troops currently locked along the western border (454km long) allowing them to be redeployed in the east.
Do you think the Russians will withdraw troops from Transnistria? Voluntarily? I doubt it very much. Moldova may need to open a second front.

All the European state and government leaders are in Moldova today. This topic must have been on the table.
Poland just announced that they sent a huge amount of military equipment to Moldova.
Zelensky's meeting with Maia Sandu took place. Zelensky said that the armed forces of Ukraine could destroy Russian invaders and Moldovan collaborators on the territory of Transnistria. In fact, Zelensky proposes to do this.
International law allows Ukraine to liquidate Russian soldiers in any part of the globe. Legally, Ukraine can begin the liquidation of Russian occupiers in the territory of Transnistria without the permission of Moldova. But, given the good relations between Kyiv and Chișinău, Moldova needs to hurry up and ask Kyiv for military assistance.
From a military point of view, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will do this, because. Russians detain Ukrainian troops in this Transnistria.

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 02, 2023, 11:01
Kiev and Kishinev

Kyiv and Chișinău
Don't use russified names  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 02, 2023, 16:25
Kiev and Kishinev

Kyiv and Chișinău
Don't use russified names  ;)
+100
Yes, this is Russian propaganda + my bad English. I have corrected.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on June 04, 2023, 01:04

And, please, repeat after me: NATO IS NOT EXPANDING. NATO is joined!


Repeat after me: NATO IS EXPANDING.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 04, 2023, 02:39

And, please, repeat after me: NATO IS NOT EXPANDING. NATO is joined!


Repeat after me: NATO IS EXPANDING.
And what? Everything popular is expanding. But not through war and occupation, but through the voluntary entry of new members into the organization. What's wrong with NATO? NATO, unlike Russia, is not a fascist and terrorist organization.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 04, 2023, 07:48

And, please, repeat after me: NATO IS NOT EXPANDING. NATO is joined!


Repeat after me: NATO IS EXPANDING.
Yep, this is why Sweden was recently coerced to become part of NATO.
Ooh wait...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 04, 2023, 09:44
Yep, this is why Sweden was recently coerced to become part of NATO.
Ooh wait...
They have not yet taken it to NATO, but they are already sending troops there, occupying and shooting everyone who is against it.  :'( :-X
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on June 04, 2023, 17:43


But not through war and occupation, but through the voluntary entry of new members into the organization. What's wrong with NATO? NATO, unlike Russia, is not a fascist and terrorist organization.

Repeat after me: REFERENDUM IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF DEMOCRACY. THE ONES AVOIDING IT ON ANY COST DON'T GIVE A F..K ABOUT WILL OF PEOPLE. COUNTRIES ARE PEOPLE.

NATO is spreading terror and rewriting historical borders is same Fascist way as Russia.

At this time NATO is supporting and doing the same thing Russia is trying to do with Crimea, just on Kosovo. Exactly same thing just in this case NATO supports separatist for its own interests.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 04, 2023, 18:26
Repeat after me: REFERENDUM IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF DEMOCRACY.

Of course.
But no country is ruled by referendum only, because that would be highly impractical.
In fact, all democracies are run by their elected representatives who are entrusted by the voters to act on their behalf.

In some countries, all constitutional changes require validation through a referendum. But even if a country has chosen to make them through their elected representatives, it doesn't make these countries less democratic.

As far as I am aware, all NATO countries have the option to reject the democratic decision made by their representatives, by calling a referendum, if enough signatures are collected to call for it and if enough people show up to vote against it.

So if you are unhappy with the decision of your democratically elected politicians, instead of whining, have at it: organize a referendum and get out, as the Brits did with their Brexit!

But I have a very strong feeling that if you do that you will score an outstanding failure, especially these days, when everybody can see what happened to Ukraine, without the NATO safety umbrella.

This is why both Finland and Sweden realized that even neutrality is dangerous and applied for NATO membership.

Moreover, NATO safety and EU trade relations are the prerequisites for prosperity.

You only have to compare Serbia and Romania. Both started from the same point in the post-communist era, but Serbia chose to stay closer to russia, expressing little interest in the EU and no interest in NATO.

And today, the standard of living in Romania is almost twice better than in Serbia. See the attached graphs.

That's what comes together with NATO and EU memberships, and that's what Ukraine is aspiring for. Neither you nor putin can't deny them this aspiration.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on June 04, 2023, 19:47
“A fascist is someone who supports or promotes fascism,a system of government led by a dictator who typically rules by forcefully and often violently suppressing opposition and criticism,controlling all industry and commerce,and promoting nationalism and often racism”

Russians are not fascists.

Russian government,Putin,comes close to the definition of a fascist,but is just a man who doesn't want to accept or understand and trying to stop something that can no longer be stopped,and this thing is called NATO.

NATO is the future,but it still has to learn and try to have better,more honest and transparent rules,NATO is still a defective toy,which needs to be perfected,but it remains the future,because it brings a better quality of life,freedom and union.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 05, 2023, 02:58
“A fascist is someone who supports or promotes fascism,a system of government led by a dictator who typically rules by forcefully and often violently suppressing opposition and criticism,controlling all industry and commerce,and promoting nationalism and often racism”
This is the exact definition of the modern Russian empire.
Russians are not fascists.
Russians are not only fascists, they are also rashists, terrorists and war criminals. Moreover, this applies to almost 2/3 of the population of Russia.

Russian government,Putin,comes close to the definition of a fascist,but is just a man who doesn't want to accept or understand and trying to stop something that can no longer be stopped,and this thing is called NATO.
Putin is a war criminal and a terrorist, he drowned Ukraine in the blood of genocide. On the Putin issued an arrest by an international court.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 05, 2023, 03:02
Repeat after me: REFERENDUM IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF DEMOCRACY. THE ONES AVOIDING IT ON ANY COST DON'T GIVE A F..K ABOUT WILL OF PEOPLE. COUNTRIES ARE PEOPLE.
Exactly.

NATO is spreading terror and rewriting historical borders is same Fascist way as Russia.
Will there be examples?

At this time NATO is supporting and doing the same thing Russia is trying to do with Crimea, just on Kosovo. Exactly same thing just in this case NATO supports separatist for its own interests.
What does NATO have to do with Kosovo? You will study the question first.
Yugoslavia as a country disintegrated a long time ago. Therefore, the Republic of Kosovo itself decides how and with whom to live.
You probably support the Serbian pro-Russian occupiers?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on June 05, 2023, 06:36

What does NATO have to do with Kosovo? You will study the question first.
Yugoslavia as a country disintegrated a long time ago. Therefore, the Republic of Kosovo itself decides how and with whom to live.
You probably support the Serbian pro-Russian occupiers?

Time for education...so repeat after me...

Kosovo was never a Yugoslav Republic. Kosovo was a region of autonomy based on majority of Albanian population and essential part of the Republic of Serbia.

I support Serbs so much that I spent years of best times of my life defending my country against them in first lines, while they were lunching thousands of missiles a day with 4. Army force in Europe on a fresh recognized country that didn't even have an army. All we got from NATO and the rest of the company is weapons embargo so that we can not even buy it to defend ourself. 

And that's a bit different than what you are doing my dear keyboard warrior.

But justice is justice.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 05, 2023, 07:55

What does NATO have to do with Kosovo? You will study the question first.
Yugoslavia as a country disintegrated a long time ago. Therefore, the Republic of Kosovo itself decides how and with whom to live.
You probably support the Serbian pro-Russian occupiers?

Time for education...so repeat after me...

Kosovo was never a Yugoslav Republic. Kosovo was a region of autonomy based on majority of Albanian population and essential part of the Republic of Serbia.

I support Serbs so much that I spent years of best times of my life defending my country against them in first lines, while they were lunching thousands of missiles a day with 4. Army force in Europe on a fresh recognized country that didn't even have an army. All we got from NATO and the rest of the company is weapons embargo so that we can not even buy it to defend ourself. 

And that's a bit different than what you are doing my dear keyboard warrior.

But justice is justice.
1. What country are you from?
2. 101 UN states have recognized Kosovo.
3. As a result of the 1999 war between Serbs and Albanians, the region came under UN control.
4. On February 17, 2008, the parliament of Kosovo declared independence.
5. 92% of Albanians live in Kosovo.
6. In 1974, the autonomous rights of the territory of Kosovo were extended and these rights were equated with other republics of Yugoslavia.

Conclusions: When a country breaks up, in this case Yugoslavia, the emergence of a country like Kosovo is quite logical and democratic. And in vain you support Serbia here.
There is no need to compare with Crimea. It's like comparing a monkey and a human.

7. If you do not support Serbia, then you should be grateful to NATO for helping to end the civil war in Kosovo. As a result of the war, a new state of Kosovo emerged.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on June 05, 2023, 17:20

1. What country are you from?
2. 101 UN states have recognized Kosovo.
3. As a result of the 1999 war between Serbs and Albanians, the region came under UN control.
4. On February 17, 2008, the parliament of Kosovo declared independence.
5. 92% of Albanians live in Kosovo.
6. In 1974, the autonomous rights of the territory of Kosovo were extended and these rights were equated with other republics of Yugoslavia.

Conclusions: When a country breaks up, in this case Yugoslavia, the emergence of a country like Kosovo is quite logical and democratic. And in vain you support Serbia here.
There is no need to compare with Crimea. It's like comparing a monkey and a human.

7. If you do not support Serbia, then you should be grateful to NATO for helping to end the civil war in Kosovo. As a result of the war, a new state of Kosovo emerged.

Repeat after me: The situation with Kosovo is absolutely the same as the one in Crimea.

In 1939. there were 62.3% of Serbs and 37.6% Albanians. The politics of Yugoslavia of accepting Albanian refugees ended up with such ethnically cleansing that Serbs made less than 1.47 % in 2011.

We can also compare it with Catalonia where 90%+ people that voted chose independence on democratic referendum and police used force to stop them but I haven't seen NATO intervening.

As a Croatian I have absolutely no reason to defend the Serbs who destroyed 1/3 of my country and forced me to fight right after my high school graduation but Im defending the justice here.

As a matter effects Serbs wanted same thing in Croatia to take away regions with majority of Serbian population withing my country and join them with Serbia. The Yugoslav national army took their side and went with full force on fresh Croatian unarmed side destroying everything. NATO didn't want to piss of Russia, traditional Serbian friend, and forced a embargo on Croatia to buy weapons to defend itself. So the only way was to buy it on the black market.

And those are facts






Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 06, 2023, 02:21
Urgent news.
Russian fascists, terrorists and occupiers blew up the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station in Ukraine. This is ecological catastrophy!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 06, 2023, 02:29
Europe needs to get ready, the Russians may soon blow up the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant, and this will already be a disaster for the whole of Europe.
Ukraine urgently needs F16 aircraft to eliminate Russian fascists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 06, 2023, 03:52
Repeat after me: The situation with Kosovo is absolutely the same as the one in Crimea.
You are a Croatian, so you know the history of Croatia. You do not know the history of Crimea.
Where there are Russians there is only lies and propaganda. Crimea was occupied by Russian troops in 2014. In the same year, Russia annexed Crimea. There was no civil war. Russia held a fake referendum, the results of which were printed out in Moscow even before the referendum. This was a violation of the territorial integrity of Ukraine, a violation of all international treaties and a violation of the Constitution of Ukraine. The democratic countries of the world consider Crimea a territory occupied by Russians. Therefore, Kosovo, Croatia and Catalonia are completely different issues. You stubbornly continue to compare man with a monkey. Don't believe Russian propaganda!

In 1939. there were 62.3% of Serbs and 37.6% Albanians. The politics of Yugoslavia of accepting Albanian refugees ended up with such ethnically cleansing that Serbs made less than 1.47 % in 2011.
I see other data:
1921: Albanians 66%, Serbs 26%;
1939: Albanians 60%, Serbs 34%;
1971: Albanians 74%, Serbs 21%;
2007: Albanians 92%, Serbs 5%;


We can also compare it with Catalonia where 90%+ people that voted chose independence on democratic referendum and police used force to stop them but I haven't seen NATO intervening.
Why is NATO there? There was no civil war there, there were no threats to the EU. Madrid defended its constitution and the integrity of Spain. The separatists were imprisoned. There are a lot of Russian KGB agents working there in Catalonia, they are fueling the protests.

As a Croatian I have absolutely no reason to defend the Serbs who destroyed 1/3 of my country and forced me to fight right after my high school graduation but Im defending the justice here.

As a matter effects Serbs wanted same thing in Croatia to take away regions with majority of Serbian population withing my country and join them with Serbia. The Yugoslav national army took their side and went with full force on fresh Croatian unarmed side destroying everything. NATO didn't want to piss of Russia, traditional Serbian friend, and forced a embargo on Croatia to buy weapons to defend itself. So the only way was to buy it on the black market.

And those are facts
Here you know what to write, and that's good. The problems of Croatia can be discussed further. Let me just say that NATO is included only when the issue is not resolved by political means, by negotiation. In the case of Kosovo, the intervention was justified.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 06, 2023, 05:59
The destruction of the hydroelectric power station is equated to the use of weapons of mass destruction. The Russians continue to kill the Ukrainian people, this is genocide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jM3sRhUWvc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jM3sRhUWvc)

According to InformNapalm's OSINT researchers, the ecological and economic consequences of the destruction of the Kakhovskaya HPS for Ukraine can be compared to the consequences of the use of tactical nuclear weapons of 5-10 kilotons.
The factors of such a destruction are actually identical to a nuclear explosion except for radiation contamination:

1. Evacuation of the population, destruction of enterprises and objects with harmful and poisonous substances (chlorine, ammonia, petroleum products, etc.).

2. Destruction of water supply, sewage, electricity facilities, collapse of food and medical logistics.

3. Pollution of part of the Black Sea water area and other consequences.

According to the Geneva Convention (Article 56 of Additional Protocol I of 1977), actions to destroy dams are a war crime and can be equated to the use of weapons of mass destruction.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 06, 2023, 09:37
I see other data:
1921: Albanians 66%, Serbs 26%;
1939: Albanians 60%, Serbs 34%;
1971: Albanians 74%, Serbs 21%;
2007: Albanians 92%, Serbs 5%;

"All those are facts!"  ;D

Serbian nationalists are conveniently forgetting that older census data from the Ottoman empire is unreliable and didn't account for "nationalities", but for religion affiliations.
Even so, Albanian muslims were still a majority in the Kosovo Vilayet (Vilayet = adminstrative division of the Ottoman empire)

Moreover serbian nationalists are conveniently forgetting that the retaking of Kosovo by Serbia in 1912 resulted in a suppression of the local muslim Albanian population and ethnic cleansing.

In this context it's also worth mentioning that Serbia has even occupied Albania, claiming that if Austria-Hungary can occupy Bosnia and Italy can occupy Libya, then Serbia is entitled to occupy Albania. #whataboutism ::)

While playing the victim role, serbian nationalists are also conveniently forgetting this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Albanians_in_the_Balkan_Wars
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 06, 2023, 11:07
I see other data:
1921: Albanians 66%, Serbs 26%;
1939: Albanians 60%, Serbs 34%;
1971: Albanians 74%, Serbs 21%;
2007: Albanians 92%, Serbs 5%;

"All those are facts!"  ;D

Serbian nationalists are conveniently forgetting that older census data from the Ottoman empire is unreliable and didn't account for "nationalities", but for religion affiliations.
Even so, Albanian muslims were still a majority in the Kosovo Vilayet (Vilayet = adminstrative division of the Ottoman empire)

Moreover serbian nationalists are conveniently forgetting that the retaking of Kosovo by Serbia in 1912 resulted in a suppression of the local muslim Albanian population and ethnic cleansing.

In this context it's also worth mentioning that Serbia has even occupied Albania, claiming that if Austria-Hungary can occupy Bosnia and Italy can occupy Libya, then Serbia is entitled to occupy Albania. #whataboutism ::)

While playing the victim role, serbian nationalists are also conveniently forgetting this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Albanians_in_the_Balkan_Wars
That is why NATO intervened and helped the Albanians.
And to say here that Crimea and Kosovo are one and the same, it smells like propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 06, 2023, 12:15
Australia, the United States of America and Ukraine are negotiating the possible supply of American F/A-18 Hornet fighters to Kyiv. This was reported by The Australian Financial Review on June 6, citing its own sources.

The publication notes that it is about 41 aircraft of the Royal Australian Air Force, which were previously planned to simply be written off.

As the journalists note, in this way, the request of the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyi regarding combat aviation may be partially fulfilled.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on June 06, 2023, 16:00

1. What country are you from?
2. 101 UN states have recognized Kosovo.
3. As a result of the 1999 war between Serbs and Albanians, the region came under UN control.
4. On February 17, 2008, the parliament of Kosovo declared independence.
5. 92% of Albanians live in Kosovo.
6. In 1974, the autonomous rights of the territory of Kosovo were extended and these rights were equated with other republics of Yugoslavia.

Conclusions: When a country breaks up, in this case Yugoslavia, the emergence of a country like Kosovo is quite logical and democratic. And in vain you support Serbia here.
There is no need to compare with Crimea. It's like comparing a monkey and a human.

7. If you do not support Serbia, then you should be grateful to NATO for helping to end the civil war in Kosovo. As a result of the war, a new state of Kosovo emerged.
We can also compare it with Catalonia where 90%+ people that voted chose independence on democratic referendum and police used force to stop them but I haven't seen NATO intervening.

Lizard,


this comparison is useless for the argumentation in my view.

If a regional government creates a referendum and only allows the people of that region to vote, this is not a correct democratic process, because the regional government was not authorised by the Spanish constitution to hold a referendum.

If tomorrow the local politicians in Istria hold a referendum to separate Istria from Croatia, the Croatian government would rightly oppose it. Italy would resist if Lombardy did the same. And in these fictitious cases, too, I see no reason why NATO should interfere there.

In contrast to Catalonia, which sought autonomy, the Crimea, the Donbass or Luhansk are not about autonomy, but about becoming part of the Russian empire - that is a completely different background!



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 07, 2023, 06:36
Kherson, Ukraine.
Genocide and ecocide of Ukraine committed by Russian occupiers. Cities and villages of Ukraine are completely in the water and under water. All fish in the Dnieper are dying. A lot of chemicals are washed off the fields and float into the Black Sea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0azwb7kCIw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0azwb7kCIw)

The Russians are constantly bombarding the city of Kherson with artillery. Ukraine cannot help many people. In the occupied territory of Ukraine, Russian occupiers do not provide assistance to people in the flooded area. No telephone connection, no light. The United Nations is inactive.

Volunteers save dogs, but not everyone can be saved. The problem is that the Russians either do not let people out of the flooded houses or fire at the houses with artillery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guAloobprRg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guAloobprRg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 08, 2023, 14:17
Appeal of the President of Ukraine to people all over the world in connection with the terrorist act by the fascist Russia at the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3095662760735023&ref=sharing (https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=3095662760735023&ref=sharing)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 09, 2023, 05:31
I do not like how the media in other countries hush up the terrorist act of Russia at the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station and its consequences. The information is presented in a very concise form, much is not said and it is not said that the fault lies with Russia. Also, I do not see enough reaction from the democratic countries. For example, if the Russians blow up a hydroelectric power station in Germany or Italy and flood a lot of territory, the reaction will be completely different. No new sanctions are being introduced against Russia, tamahawks do not fly at Russian military facilities, Ukraine is not given missiles with a range of 1000 km or more.
The explosion of the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station is the first stage before the explosion of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant. The Russians look at the reaction of the world, and see, nothing threatening them. If anyone does not know, the Russians have long since fully mined the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant and storage facilities for nuclear waste. The Russians want to blow up the nuclear power plant. After that, they will say that we did not blow up anything, this is all allegedly because the water level has dropped in the Kakhovka storage reservoir. Also, the Russians will say that the Ukrainians blew up the nuclear power plant. And the whole world will chew snot, shrug and express concern. Nobody wants to think about where the wind will carry the radioactive dust. Nobody is doing anything.
Democratic countries are very much like ostriches that have buried their heads in the sand.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on June 09, 2023, 12:01
I do not like how the media in other countries hush up the terrorist act of Russia at the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station and its consequences. The information is presented in a very concise form, much is not said and it is not said that the fault lies with Russia. Also, I do not see enough reaction from the democratic countries. For example, if the Russians blow up a hydroelectric power station in Germany or Italy and flood a lot of territory, the reaction will be completely different. No new sanctions are being introduced against Russia, tamahawks do not fly at Russian military facilities, Ukraine is not given missiles with a range of 1000 km or more.
The explosion of the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station is the first stage before the explosion of the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant. The Russians look at the reaction of the world, and see, nothing threatening them. If anyone does not know, the Russians have long since fully mined the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant and storage facilities for nuclear waste. The Russians want to blow up the nuclear power plant. After that, they will say that we did not blow up anything, this is all allegedly because the water level has dropped in the Kakhovka storage reservoir. Also, the Russians will say that the Ukrainians blew up the nuclear power plant. And the whole world will chew snot, shrug and express concern. Nobody wants to think about where the wind will carry the radioactive dust. Nobody is doing anything.
Democratic countries are very much like ostriches that have buried their heads in the sand.

Having fun here all by yourself? :)

Can you show me the proof that Russia sabotaged the dam?

I remember that the destruction of Nord Stream pipelines was also immediately blamed on Russia and people spoke of the biggest natural disaster ever and the guilty party will pay. Now it seems that it was Ukraine doing it. Not 100% proof, so far, but multiple American newspapers tend to believe it and different European investigations tend to confirm it.

If, by any chance, it was Ukraine blowing up the dam, are they then also terrorists or have done "Genocide and ecocide" as you say?

I can see, from a tactical point of view, much more advantage for Ukraine to have done it then Russia actually.

The Krim is dependent on it's water supply, most of the area which is flooded is under Russia's control. The nuclear plant is dependent on the water as well which is also under Russians control.

And I know you are going to say now that I am repeating russian propoganda. But seriously, in which way is there any advantage for Russia to have done this? Like there was also no advantage to blow up the Nord Stream pipelines. I really can't see it. And certainly it was not to stop a so called breach by the Ukranians which everybody knows would not have taken place there.

So please, show me proof and motive and maybe I will be convinced.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 09, 2023, 13:46
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74HD_hI45A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M74HD_hI45A)

Bakhmut, Ukraine. The Armed Forces of Ukraine liquidate the Russian occupiers. 20 occupiers were liquidated, and 3 were taken prisoner. This is a documentary with English subtitles. If someone does not have a broadcast, click 2 times on the gray screen. Russian trolls will put a low rating on this film.
This is how Ukraine defends democratic Europe from Russian fascism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on June 09, 2023, 14:44
What are Trump prospects in next year's elections? Why is he not removed from the elections, because there are many investigations against him? One Capitol attack is worth something.

Well, on a historic note: he is now the first former president to be indicted on a federal charge for violations against the Espionage Act.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on June 09, 2023, 14:46
Australia, the United States of America and Ukraine are negotiating the possible supply of American F/A-18 Hornet fighters to Kyiv. This was reported by The Australian Financial Review on June 6, citing its own sources.

The publication notes that it is about 41 aircraft of the Royal Australian Air Force, which were previously planned to simply be written off.

As the journalists note, in this way, the request of the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyi regarding combat aviation may be partially fulfilled.

Thanks for informing us. I didn't know about this until I read it here. It wasn't on CNN - or maybe I missed it. But yes, 41 hornet fighter jets.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 09, 2023, 15:45
What are Trump prospects in next year's elections? Why is he not removed from the elections, because there are many investigations against him? One Capitol attack is worth something.

Well, on a historic note: he is now the first former president to be indicted on a federal charge for violations against the Espionage Act.
There is also a threat to democracy. This is DeSantis. He's a Trump fan, announced his candidacy in future elections, and apparently has a good attitude towards Russia. It seems he said that he was against the supply of weapons to Ukraine.
He is young, popular, probably promising, but he seems to be connected with the Russians or they have influence on him.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 09, 2023, 15:52
In good news, Michael Pence appears to be running for the next election. But it seems he has no support in the US, which is a pity.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on June 10, 2023, 14:52
What are Trump prospects in next year's elections? Why is he not removed from the elections, because there are many investigations against him? One Capitol attack is worth something.

Well, on a historic note: he is now the first former president to be indicted on a federal charge for violations against the Espionage Act.
There is also a threat to democracy.

Yes.

His megalomania is also a threat to the national security of people all around the world, to mine and to everyone who lives in the USA, Britain, New Zealand, and Canada.

Quote
Five Eyes documents spilled on the floor and then were photographed. The documents that spilled onto the floor included the marking “FVEY.”

The Five Eyes are the United States and its closest allies — the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. They share some of the most sensitive information with each other.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2023/06/politics/annotated-trump-indictment-dg/

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 11, 2023, 04:18
Yes.
His megalomania is also a threat to the national security of people all around the world, to mine and to everyone who lives in the USA, Britain, New Zealand, and Canada.
He probably wants to be like Kennedy. I think that the end of the Vietnam War was the defeat of the United States in the war against communism in Southeast Asia. With subsequent consequences for democracy. Even now, the US is afraid to join the battle, and immediately there are those who remember Vietnam. But the United States could well have won in Vietnam (if not for people like Lennon). DeSantis will definitely stop helping Ukraine if he becomes president. And this will be a threat to many EU countries.

Quote
Five Eyes documents spilled on the floor and then were photographed. The documents that spilled onto the floor included the marking “FVEY.”
The Five Eyes are the United States and its closest allies — the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. They share some of the most sensitive information with each other.
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2023/06/politics/annotated-trump-indictment-dg/
A good scenario for the series Homeland. I read it, but they don’t write about the content of secret documents. In any case, this is a failure of the CIA and a blow to the US reputation as a reliable partner. Trump has ties to the Russians, and is likely passing classified information to them. I heard the story that Trump demanded that the CIA give him the name of a CIA agent in the Kremlin. The CIA was forced to immediately evacuate this man and his entire family. And only after that Trump received this information. The loss of an agent in the Kremlin is a very strong blow to the work of the CIA. As a result, we see how the Russians confidently and brazenly commit murders and terrorist acts. The CIA did not seem to know at all when the Russians would blow up the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station, as a result it was not possible to prevent this act of terrorism and a lot of people and animals are now dying in Ukraine.
At the expense of boxes with documents, where is the CIA looking at all, etc., where is Biden looking? I think either Trump himself could transfer information to Russian KGB agents or the Russians themselves could work with these boxes. Maybe there is a list of visitors to this club (of course it sounds naive).
By the way, Biden also kept boxes of documents at home, why did he do it.
In any case, for the first time in the history of the United States, a man like Trump became the president of the United States and is trying to become president again. This is a huge gift for Russia and all world terrorism.
The same Iran is actively supplying weapons to Russia, perhaps because the Russians transferred to Iran the contents of secret documents from Trump's boxes.
The media recently wrote that a CIA agent was hanged (executed) in Iran. Iran learned about this intelligence agent only because the Russians transmitted information about him. How did the Russians find out about the intelligence officer? It is very possible that thanks to the boxes found with Trump. What if those boxes contained a list of CIA agents in other countries? This is a huge defeat for democracy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 11, 2023, 06:44
I watch Berlin Station (TV series), season 3. Not bad show who the Russians are. The only remark, in my opinion, the Russians are not as cool as they are shown, and the Crimea is not a brilliant special operation, but just the unwillingness of democratic countries to send Russia to where it belongs, to the dustbin of history. There was no genius in the occupation of Crimea, there was only rudeness, arrogance and terrorism. Well, zero reaction from the US and NATO.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 11, 2023, 10:11
"The orders to shell their own troops were give by a commander with the call sign "Gyurza," they said.

"Our boys were in that position... We hadn't retreated yet when Gyurza ordered to shell this area, this square of land. They told him that our soldiers hadn't left the positions. Women will give birth to new ones, he replied. He aired it by radio so as the entire battalion could hear him. Well, the remains of the battalion..." the Russian soldier said."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 11, 2023, 11:30
Women will give birth to new ones[/i]
Oh yes, this is the basic philosophy of the Russians. So said their "hero" Zhukov. According to this principle, the Russians fought during the Second World War, they were given either shovels in their hands or 1 rifle for two soldiers and sent in crowds to artillery, machine-gun bunkers or under tanks. Russians are proud of their army, its methods, drink vodka on May 9th and run with Russian flags all over the world. They are wild medieval people. Russians are very similar to the zombies from the movie apocalypse.
I read stories about German soldiers during the Second World War who stood in machine gun positions. So, the Russians fled to the machine-gun bunker in droves, and even without weapons. Next to the German soldier was a box of vodka, the German drank a lot of vodka, his psyche could not stand it. The task of the Russians was to fill up the enemy’s firing point with their bodies in the hope that the Germans would run out of ammunition. Such savagery cannot even be imagined. When asked why the Russians did this, the answer was that they were simply given the task of occupying a certain territory by the exact calendar date. Therefore, they did not prepare for the offensive.

Women will give birth to new ones
By the same principle, the Russians are fighting in Ukraine. For 10 months, the Russians suffered losses in quantity of 100,000 soldiers while trying to occupy the Ukrainian city of Bakhmut (in the end, they could not occupy it completely). Today, the Armed Forces of Ukraine successfully encircle this city and continue to liquidate Russians there.

p.s.
Reply #403.
There I wrote in more detail about the Russians on May 9th.
https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg586831/#msg586831 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg586831/#msg586831)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 11, 2023, 12:40
Bullying of Ukrainian in Czech school. Russian propaganda works well with Czechs and Germans. The idea is being introduced that Russia is a good country, but Ukraine is not a country at all and that Ukrainians are not people.
https://us.firenews.video/world-news/pavel-accepted-a-ukrainian-girl-who-was-being-bullied-by-czech-classmates/

https://svidomi.in.ua/en/page/the-czech-president-meets-with-a-ukrainian-girl-who-was-bullied-at-school

https://twitter.com/anno1540/status/1667844839587692544

(https://svidomi.in.ua/storage/lp/16419/e0139dc5a14873b307c5f5e55647aa524d6e75d3.jpeg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 11, 2023, 13:47
So please, show me proof and motive and maybe I will be convinced.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on June 11, 2023, 14:12
So please, show me proof and motive and maybe I will be convinced.

That is no proof :)

By the way, the Ukranians also said the russians blew up the Nord Stream gas pipelines. But they did it themselves. Is that then also proof that they also blew up the dam themselves?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 12, 2023, 02:11
So please, show me proof and motive and maybe I will be convinced.
This SVH here on the forum relays the narratives of Russian propaganda. Before the explosion, the Russians launched a new wave of propaganda against Ukraine. It makes no sense to react to the lies of Russian terrorists and war criminals.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 13, 2023, 04:04
(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/2/f/2fe9670-----------.avif)

June 13, 2023. Kryvy Rih, Ukraine. The terrorist country Russia fired missiles at residential buildings in the city. There will probably be 16 dead and many injured.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrsi60JyZ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNrsi60JyZ8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkDcO1D6l5w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkDcO1D6l5w)

This is the genocide of the Ukrainian people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 13, 2023, 08:36

This is the genocide of the Ukrainian people.

russians have apparently realised that everything sent towards Kyiv is taken down by the air defense, thus being a waste of resources from their side..

So they decided to bring their terror to other civilian objectives where the defense is not that good.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 13, 2023, 11:10
Yes, Ukraine needs F16 fighters aircraft, they can close the sky over Ukraine from Russian missiles and help the Armed Forces of Ukraine in a military attack.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 16, 2023, 04:39
Ukraine. Destruction of the Russian military column. Great screen saver for any gadget screen. You can look at this forever.

https://www.facebook.com/reel/203612502163084 (https://www.facebook.com/reel/203612502163084)

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 17, 2023, 05:07
A war criminal, the president and tsar of the Russian Empire began to blackmail the planet with the spread of nuclear weapons. Russian propaganda is actively spreading disinformation about the deployment of nuclear weapons in the terrorist country of Belarus. The purpose of this propaganda is that the court in The Hague lift Putin's arrest in exchange for non-deployment of nuclear weapons in Belarus.
In fact, the reality is that there are no warehouses for storing nuclear weapons on the territory of Belarus, the Russians are bluffing. In any case, it would be a mistake to remove the arrest from Putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 17, 2023, 09:44
russkiy mir (russian: pусский мир) is an ambiguous ideological concept and a political doctrine usually defined as the sphere of cultural and political influence of russia. It is also known as the "russian world".

russkiy mir was conceived as a russian “diaspora empire,” with particular importance continually placed on the “russian enclaves” in its “near abroad” – that is, on the European countries of the former soviet union, such as Ukraine and the Republic of Moldova.


It also translates as "Pax russica", or "russian Peace".
For cityscape photographers, here are some examples of "russian Peace":
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 17, 2023, 11:29
Australia, the United States of America and Ukraine are negotiating the possible supply of American F/A-18 Hornet fighters to Kyiv. This was reported by The Australian Financial Review on June 6, citing its own sources.

The publication notes that it is about 41 aircraft of the Royal Australian Air Force, which were previously planned to simply be written off.

As the journalists note, in this way, the request of the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyi regarding combat aviation may be partially fulfilled.

Thanks for informing us. I didn't know about this until I read it here. It wasn't on CNN - or maybe I missed it. But yes, 41 hornet fighter jets.
Unfortunately, the information turned out to be false. These planes are owned by some private organization in Australia and the Australian government has nothing to do with these planes. In general, most likely these aircraft will not be handed over to Ukraine.
:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on June 17, 2023, 14:57
Australia, the United States of America and Ukraine are negotiating the possible supply of American F/A-18 Hornet fighters to Kyiv. This was reported by The Australian Financial Review on June 6, citing its own sources.

The publication notes that it is about 41 aircraft of the Royal Australian Air Force, which were previously planned to simply be written off.

As the journalists note, in this way, the request of the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyi regarding combat aviation may be partially fulfilled.

Thanks for informing us. I didn't know about this until I read it here. It wasn't on CNN - or maybe I missed it. But yes, 41 hornet fighter jets.
Unfortunately, the information turned out to be false. These planes are owned by some private organization in Australia and the Australian government has nothing to do with these planes. In general, most likely these aircraft will not be handed over to Ukraine.
:(

Are you sure, Stoker? I find it hard to believe that a private Australian company would own 40+ fighter jets? We are not that big a country, with less than 1/10th of the population of USA.

Where did you get your info from?


I did, however, just find 2 recent articles from 2 and 3 days ago, that reported that there are 46 decommissioned hornet jets located at the RAAF base in Williamstown (that's in the Australian state of Victoria) and the deal is possibly still being negotiated. RAAF stands for the Royal Australian Air Force.

https://www.ibtimes.com/are-australian-f--18-hornets-ukraines-radar-conflict-russia-3700153 (https://www.ibtimes.com/are-australian-f--18-hornets-ukraines-radar-conflict-russia-3700153)

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ukraine-interest-australia-f-18-004235504.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ukraine-interest-australia-f-18-004235504.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)


If I lived in that state, I would drive down myself to see if they are there.  :D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 17, 2023, 15:27
Australia, the United States of America and Ukraine are negotiating the possible supply of American F/A-18 Hornet fighters to Kyiv. This was reported by The Australian Financial Review on June 6, citing its own sources.

The publication notes that it is about 41 aircraft of the Royal Australian Air Force, which were previously planned to simply be written off.

As the journalists note, in this way, the request of the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyi regarding combat aviation may be partially fulfilled.

Thanks for informing us. I didn't know about this until I read it here. It wasn't on CNN - or maybe I missed it. But yes, 41 hornet fighter jets.
Unfortunately, the information turned out to be false. These planes are owned by some private organization in Australia and the Australian government has nothing to do with these planes. In general, most likely these aircraft will not be handed over to Ukraine.
:(

Are you sure, Stoker? I find it hard to believe that a private Australian company would own 40+ fighter jets? We are not that big a country, with less than 1/10th of the population of USA.

Where did you get your info from?


I did, however, just find 2 recent articles from 2 and 3 days ago, that reported that there are 46 decommissioned hornet jets located at the RAAF base in Williamstown (that's in the Australian state of Victoria) and the deal is possibly still being negotiated. RAAF stands for the Royal Australian Air Force.

https://www.ibtimes.com/are-australian-f--18-hornets-ukraines-radar-conflict-russia-3700153 (https://www.ibtimes.com/are-australian-f--18-hornets-ukraines-radar-conflict-russia-3700153)

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ukraine-interest-australia-f-18-004235504.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ukraine-interest-australia-f-18-004235504.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall)


If I lived in that state, I would drive down myself to see if they are there.  :D
"Sources close to the negotiations informed ABC that RAVN Aerospace is willing to "on-sell" the Hornets to Ukraine but requires approval from the White House due to the presence of American intellectual property in the fourth-generation fighters."

I listen to some military experts, but they may be wrong.
From your links it follows that a private company is probably in the USA. The bottom line is that the transfer of both F16 and hornet is only possible with US permission. But with this there was a problem. There is information that the United States agreed to transfer the F16 to Ukraine only because Russia began supplying Russian fighters to Iran. The supply of fighter jets to Iran means a threat to Israel (the United States thinks less about Ukraine than about Israel). In response, the US said it would hand over the F16 to Ukraine. Recently, the Russians stopped supplying fighter jets to Iran, and now the US is pulling back. They are already saying that Ukraine will receive the F16 not in the summer or September of this year, but in January 2024. So with the hornet, the United States does not give permission for their transfer (more precisely, sale) to Ukraine. It appears from your links that hornet is both owned by a private company and subject to the will of the US in terms of transfer. I also read that the hornet is being utilization soon. All in all, this is bad news.
Ukraine needs F16 and hornet already today, and even a possible transfer on January or even later is very bad.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 18, 2023, 16:06
Weekdays of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Ukraine. Hunting for Russian invaders. English subtitles included. Internet Starlink from Elon Musk helps a lot.
https://youtu.be/IEktHtWUiag
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on June 20, 2023, 17:38


Lizard,


this comparison is useless for the argumentation in my view.

If a regional government creates a referendum and only allows the people of that region to vote, this is not a correct democratic process, because the regional government was not authorised by the Spanish constitution to hold a referendum.

If tomorrow the local politicians in Istria hold a referendum to separate Istria from Croatia, the Croatian government would rightly oppose it. Italy would resist if Lombardy did the same. And in these fictitious cases, too, I see no reason why NATO should interfere there.

In contrast to Catalonia, which sought autonomy, the Crimea, the Donbass or Luhansk are not about autonomy, but about becoming part of the Russian empire - that is a completely different background!

Yes and that's exactly what happened in Kosovo. The local separatist Albanian authorities of autonomic province of Kosovo held an illegal independence referendum within the autonomy between 26 and 30 September 1991, and they were not authorized by Serbian republic government of which Kosovo region was essential part of. Then they established paramilitary troops and started ethnically cleaning Serbian population.

So this is same exact example as the ones you stated above.

Can you point out any other differences for discussion, cause as someone who knows the history of the region I don't see any ?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on June 21, 2023, 04:03


Lizard,


this comparison is useless for the argumentation in my view.

If a regional government creates a referendum and only allows the people of that region to vote, this is not a correct democratic process, because the regional government was not authorised by the Spanish constitution to hold a referendum.

If tomorrow the local politicians in Istria hold a referendum to separate Istria from Croatia, the Croatian government would rightly oppose it. Italy would resist if Lombardy did the same. And in these fictitious cases, too, I see no reason why NATO should interfere there.

In contrast to Catalonia, which sought autonomy, the Crimea, the Donbass or Luhansk are not about autonomy, but about becoming part of the Russian empire - that is a completely different background!

Yes and that's exactly what happened in Kosovo. The local separatist Albanian authorities of autonomic province of Kosovo held an illegal independence referendum within the autonomy between 26 and 30 September 1991, and they were not authorized by Serbian republic government of which Kosovo region was essential part of. Then they established paramilitary troops and started ethnically cleaning Serbian population.

So this is same exact example as the ones you stated above.

Can you point out any other differences for discussion, cause as someone who knows the history of the region I don't see any ?


Lizard,

I know that the recognition of Kosovo's autonomy is difficult and controversial.

However, my lines were essentially about the comparison with the Catalan autonomy movement.

As far as I know, the Catalan autonomy movement is not primarily based on ethnic reasons, but mostly economic ones - which is why I made the fictitious comparison with Lombardy.

There is no question that the Catalans, like the Basques, have an independent history and culture. Certain differences and tensions between these regions and the rest of Spain exist (as, for example, with Flemings and Walloons or Irish and Northern Irish).

Catalonia is the economically strongest region in Spain. As far as I know - and this also applies to Lombardy and northern Italy, hence my comparison - voices can be heard there again and again that these regions would be better off if they did not have to feed the "poor" part of their country. Personally, I therefore believe that these autonomous tendencies are very strongly influenced by economics. However, I am neither Spanish nor Italian - so I do not claim to be correct.

But I do believe that the ethnic tensions between Catalans and Spaniards are much less than those between Serbs and Albanians or Russians and Ukrainians. That is why I did not find the comparison between the autonomy movement in Catalonia and that in the Donbas appropriate. Nor in comparison with Kosovo.

And, no, I do not claim to be as historically knowledgeable about your region as you are as a resident. Certainly not!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 21, 2023, 04:05


Lizard,


this comparison is useless for the argumentation in my view.

If a regional government creates a referendum and only allows the people of that region to vote, this is not a correct democratic process, because the regional government was not authorised by the Spanish constitution to hold a referendum.

If tomorrow the local politicians in Istria hold a referendum to separate Istria from Croatia, the Croatian government would rightly oppose it. Italy would resist if Lombardy did the same. And in these fictitious cases, too, I see no reason why NATO should interfere there.

In contrast to Catalonia, which sought autonomy, the Crimea, the Donbass or Luhansk are not about autonomy, but about becoming part of the Russian empire - that is a completely different background!

Yes and that's exactly what happened in Kosovo. The local separatist Albanian authorities of autonomic province of Kosovo held an illegal independence referendum within the autonomy between 26 and 30 September 1991, and they were not authorized by Serbian republic government of which Kosovo region was essential part of. Then they established paramilitary troops and started ethnically cleaning Serbian population.

So this is same exact example as the ones you stated above.

Can you point out any other differences for discussion, cause as someone who knows the history of the region I don't see any ?
Lizard, you do not know the history of Ukraine. If Kosovo became an independent country, a republic, there were historical grounds for this. Then such regions as the Donbass (or rather, some areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions), Crimea and part of the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions were stupidly attached to Russia by the Russian Fuhrer Putin. Do you understand the difference between the independent country of Kosovo (recognized by the UN) and the regions of Ukraine that are occupied and annexed by Russian fascists and terrorists? Do you see any difference between a monkey and a human? (or soon you will begin to write that a man and a monkey are one and the same).

My advice to you, do not compare the male genital organ with a finger.  ;D ;D ;D

I'm not talking about the fact that the country of Yugoslavia broke up, ceased to exist, and at the time of the collapse, any regions could become independent (if there were historical grounds for this and the desire of the people). So yes, Kosovo should be recognized by all democratic countries.
I already understood you, personally you are offended by the fact that part of the territory of your country was taken from you and you could not win it back. But this certainly does not mean that everything in the world happens exactly the same way as you do.
When the Russian empire is liquidated, Serbia will stop its aggressive policy. Now Serbia is supported by Russian fascists. Your enemy is not Kosovo, your enemy is Russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 21, 2023, 04:17
voices can be heard there again and again that these regions would be better off if they did not have to feed the "poor" part of their country.
I will add that there are a lot of voices there from Russian provocateurs and KGB agents. The Russian empire needs to destabilize the situation in the democratic world, so if you see separatist rallies, then there are a lot of Russians there who are fueling the protests.
I think that Russians should be expelled from all democratic countries of the world, because. the bulk of these Russians are for Putin and for fascism, rashism.
When there were protests in Catalonia, the media showed a lot of Russians who incited hatred among the local population there. Russians in Catalonia even walked with the flags of the terrorist organization "Donetsk Republic".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 21, 2023, 04:29
Russia and Russians, like monkeys, stupidly copy the democratic processes that took place in the world. With this copying, the Russians are trying to justify their murders and crimes. And a lot of people don't understand this. Therefore, I always give as an example a monkey and a man. Russia is a monkey, and the democratic world is people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 22, 2023, 09:17
On June 22, President Volodymyr Zelensky warned that Russia was preparing to stage a terrorist attack on the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant with a release of radiation. To do this, the occupiers have prepared everything necessary.
According to experts, if the Russians stage a terrorist attack at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, the consequences could be much worse than after the Chernobyl disaster. The area potentially contaminated with radiation can reach 2 million square meters. km, up to a million people could be affected, tens of thousands could die. The consequences of the attack can be felt by residents of neighboring states, depending on weather conditions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 22, 2023, 09:32
The joke is that democratic countries do not react at all to the terrorist act committed by the Russians at the Kakhovka hydroelectric power station (Kakhovka Dam). The area of the Kakhovka reservoir is 2155 square km. Not every country has such an area.
And now I wonder what the reaction of the democratic camp will be when the Russians blow up the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant? But this terrorist attack can be completely prevented.
Undermining the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is the genocide of the Ukrainian people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 23, 2023, 03:33
Ukraine calls on world to take urgent measures to prevent disaster at Zaporizhzhia NPP

Mining and other forms of militarization of the Zaporizhzhia NPP by Russia pose an immediate threat of a nuclear incident at Europe's largest nuclear power plant. The world must take urgent measures to prevent a nuclear disaster and recognize Russia as a terrorist state.
That's according to a statement by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine regarding the endangering situation at Zaporizhzhia NPP, Ukrinform reports.

"According to Ukrainian intelligence agencies, Russia is considering a scenario of committing a terrorist act at the temporarily occupied Zaporizhia NPP. Such a terrorist attack will entail global consequences," the Foreign Ministry emphasized.

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs emphasized that by occupying ZNPP, Russia grossly violates international law and nuclear safety norms and standards, in particular the seven fundamental principles of the IAEA on nuclear safety and security.

"We expect an objective assessment by IAEA Director General Rafael Grossi regarding Russia's criminal actions," the ministry said.

The diplomats emphasized that the level of challenges and threats facing the global nuclear safety regime as a result of Russia's war against Ukraine is extremely high and requires consolidation and strengthening of international efforts to prevent a nuclear disaster.

Read also: President on situation at ZNPP: World must know and act
The Foreign Ministry stated that Russia, as a terrorist state, has violated all key principles of international nuclear safety law and the vast majority of its own treaty obligations, but has not yet suffered just consequences for its crimes.

"We call on the international community, in particular the Group of Seven and the EU, to take urgent measures to prevent a nuclear disaster at the Zaporizhzhia NPP, including but not limited to introducing strengthened restrictive measures against the Russian nuclear industry and military-industrial complex. We insist on the need to recognize Russia as a terrorist state and ensure the inevitability of political, economic and legal consequences for all crimes and illegal actions committed by it," the Foreign Ministry emphasized.

Read also: Budanov: Russians mine cooler at ZNPP
As reported, on June 20, the head of the Chief of the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine, Kyrylo Budanov, said that the Russians had mined a cooler at Zaporizhzhia NPP and that if it was disabled, there was a significant likelihood that "there would be big problems."

On June 22, President Volodymyr Zelensky said in a video address that Russia is considering a scenario of a terrorist attack at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and has prepared everything for it.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3726635-ukraine-calls-on-world-to-take-urgent-measures-to-prevent-disaster-at-zaporizhzhia-npp.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3726635-ukraine-calls-on-world-to-take-urgent-measures-to-prevent-disaster-at-zaporizhzhia-npp.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 23, 2023, 03:35
Russians have mined the cooler at Zaporizhzhia NPP. If it is disabled, there is a significant possibility that there will be big problems.
The head of the Defense Intelligence of Ukraine (DIU) Kyrylo Budanov said this during the United News telethon, Ukrinform reports.

Answering the question whether there is a threat of an accident at ZNPP, he clarified that, unfortunately, there is a certain threat as of now.

Read also: Ukrainian intelligence: What Russians do with ZNPP is nuclear blackmail
"First of all, ZNPP was and still is under the temporary control of the occupation forces. The truth is that by destroying the dam, they destroyed the normal access of water to the coolers operating at ZNPP. Second, the plant was additionally mined. The worst thing is that it was the cooler that was mined," DIU's head said.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3725681-budanov-russians-mine-cooler-at-znpp.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3725681-budanov-russians-mine-cooler-at-znpp.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 23, 2023, 03:36
If the Russians blow up the Zaporizhzhia NPP, President Biden will go down in history as the US president who allowed a nuclear catastrophe in Europe and the genocide of the Ukrainian people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 23, 2023, 03:40
There is information that the IAEA Director General Grossi is connected with the Russians and helps them escape responsibility after the explosion at the Zaporizhzhia NPP. This Director General recently visited the station, and he only said what the Russians told him to say. He lies a lot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 23, 2023, 03:57
After the terrorist attack on the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station, the Russian fascists blamed Ukraine.
I am sure that after the terrorist attack on Zaporizhzhia NPP, the Russians will also blame Ukraine. They might even plant some rocket debris. This is easy to do, because every day the Armed Forces of Ukraine liquidate a lot of Russian occupiers, there are a lot of missile fragments along the entire front.

The Russians will say that blowing up the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is beneficial to Ukraine. But the truth is that this catastrophe will allow the Russians to continue the mass genocide of the Ukrainian people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 23, 2023, 07:13
US Senate proposes that radioactive contamination of NATO territory caused by Russia be considered as attack on Alliance.

The US Senate has introduced a resolution which proposes that the actions of Russia, Belarus "or proxy of Russia" be considered as an attack on NATO, if their actions lead to radioactive contamination of the allies' territory.

Source: resolution introduced by Republican Senator Lindsey Graham and Democrat Richard Blumenthal.

Details: They note that they were prompted to introduce the resolution by Russia's announced placement of tactical nuclear weapons in Belarus.

Senators noted that this is the first precedent since the collapse of the USSR that Russia has moved its nuclear weapons beyond its own borders, and it is a serious threat to global security amid the ongoing war in Ukraine.

It is also clear from the text that the second reason is the unpredictable situation at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP), which is under the control of the Russian occupying forces.

Graham and Blumenthal proposed that any use of tactical nuclear weapons by the Russian Federation, Belarus "or proxy of Russia", or the nuclear facility destruction, which will lead to the entry of radioactive elements into the territory of NATO member countries and cause serious damage, should be considered an attack on Alliance and the reason for the use of Article 5.

"The threat of a use of a nuclear device by Russia is real. And the best way to deter it is to give them clarity, the Russians, as to what happens if they do that. And our message is to those around Putin. That if you do this, if you follow his orders – if he ever gives this, you can expect a massive response from NATO. And you will be at war with NATO," Graham said.

"This resolution [...] is meant to send a message to Vladimir Putin and even more directly to his military, they will be destroyed, they will be eviscerated if they use tactical nuclear weapons, or if they destroy a nuclear plant in a way that threatens surrounding NATO nations. [...] His (Putin's) military risks total obliteration by NATO forces, if they are so reckless and irrational as to resort to tactical nuclear weapons," Senator Blumenthal said.

The senators suggested that the Biden administration conduct appropriate consultations with the leaders of other allied countries and European partners and consider actions to minimize the threat to the civilian population and prepare a diplomatic and military response, "commensurate with the situation".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 23, 2023, 07:15
For now, it's all just words. This resolution may repeat the fate of the Budapest memorandum.  :-X
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 24, 2023, 04:30
Biden believes threat of nuclear strike by Russia is real. What world, Ukraine should do

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3726822-biden-believes-threat-of-nuclear-strike-by-russia-is-real-what-world-ukraine-should-do.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3726822-biden-believes-threat-of-nuclear-strike-by-russia-is-real-what-world-ukraine-should-do.html)

The article has a lot of good analytics.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 24, 2023, 06:52
https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1672505632325238784

Today, an attempted military coup is taking place in the Russian Empire. War criminal Prigozhin sent his armed criminal group "Wagner Group" (consisting mainly of prisoners) to Moscow. The organized crime group has already captured the airfield. Details in the tweet.
It's good that in Russia the rashists began to kill each other.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 24, 2023, 08:56
Perhaps the Russians are playing a false flag operation. If the organized crime group Wagner Group, for example, gains access to nuclear weapons, Russia will be able to unofficially fire these weapons at any country. Why is the US Central Intelligence Agency silent?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 26, 2023, 05:36
‘Everything is still ahead’: inside a secret military base with top Ukraine general

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/everything-is-still-ahead-inside-a-secret-military-base-with-top-ukraine-general (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/23/everything-is-still-ahead-inside-a-secret-military-base-with-top-ukraine-general)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 30, 2023, 09:45
Russia might blow up the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant. The West is yet to believe, but Ukraine has a plan.

Ukraine warns that Russia has prepared for a terrorist attack at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, and offers five steps to prevent a catastrophe
"Russia is in a state of affect, especially after the failed Prigozhin mutiny. And this will only get worse," Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to the head of the presidential office, tells LIGA.net.

"Russia understands that it has no tools left but terrorist ones. And we should not wait until it acts."

Andrius Kubilius, an MEP and Lithuania’s former prime minister, does not doubt that only the deployment of international forces to the Zaporizhzhia plant can change the situation.

"Nothing else will stop the Kremlin,"

Why has Ukraine intensified its rhetoric regarding the Zaporizhzhia NPP, how the West has (not) reacted so far, and what is the five-point plan for preventing a catastrophe that Kyiv has proposed?

‘Tensions are rising’
Since the first days of the full-scale war, Russia has been using the Zaporizhzhia NPP as a military base.

After the Russians blew up the Nova Kakhovka dam, the rhetoric regarding the plant escalated – at first because of the possible shallowing of its cooling pond, and later, when Ukraine found out the plant had been mined.

Apart from that, there are several disturbing signs urging Kyiv to be more proactive, Mykhailo Podoliak, an adviser to the chief of the presidential office, explains.

First, it is the lack of a proper legal response to Russia’s blowing up the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant.

"There were no consequences for Russia: no additional sanctions, no UN meetings... We need legal action against Russia, up to and including its recognition as a terrorist state," Mr Podoliak tells LIGA.net. "This would dramatically reduce their manoeuvre."

The blowing up of the Kakhovka dam was akin to the use of weapons of mass destruction, Andrius Kubilius, an MEP and Lithuania’s former prime minister, believes. International law, he adds, provides for how to respond to situations like this, but nothing has been done.

"I see a very big mistake by the West," Mr Kubilius tells LIGA.net. "If the Kremlin perceives the West’s reaction as weakness, it could push it to take even more dangerous steps."
That Russia has not been recognised as a state sponsor of terrorism is also worriying to Pavlo Klimkin, Ukraine’s former foreign minister. However, he says that such a status would instantly cut off any and all channels of communication with Russia.

"It is important for the US and Europeans to talk to Russia, for instance about strategic arms control," Mr Klimkin explains to LIGA.net.

Another disturbing sign is constant missile attacks on Ukrainian cities, Mr Podoliak explains, which shows that Russia has decided it will use terrorist tools until the end of the war.

And, finally, the abortive mutiny staged by the Wagner Group last week has exposed the fragility of the Russian government.

It is unclear who can make decisions about nuclear arsenals and the blowing up of large facilities in Ukraine – or even in Russia itself, Mr Podoliak says.

"After this Prigozhin mutiny, it is quite obvious that Russia is becoming absolutely unpredictable, a country that can go for absolute cruelty, terrorist attacks, explosions at nuclear power plants, or something else," Mr Kubilius adds.

Last week, Kyrylo Budanov, the head of Ukriaine’s military intelligence, GUR, warned of additional mining of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, including the cooler. He later added that Russia had completed preparations for a terrorist attack, having placed explosives near four of the six power units.

"The situation had never been so serious," Mr Budanov said.

Ukrainian intelligence updated the parliamentary national security committee on the situation at ZNPP, its secretary Roman Kostenko says.

"As for the predictions of a possible explosion, it is a catastrophe... The consequences could be serious – not only for Ukraine but also for European countries," he told LIGA.net.

Rafael Grossi, the chief of the UN’s atomic energy agency, has confirmed that there are mines at the plant, but said he "did not see" them near the cooling pond. Ukraine’s interior ministry, meanwhile, has already deployed command centres in case of an accident.

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy is seeking to convey the seriousness of the situation to his partners.

He has spoken to G7 ambassadors, Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau, and Polish and Lithuanian leaders Andrzej Duda and Gitanas Nausėda, but admitted that so far the partners have not paid enough attention.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 30, 2023, 09:45
The West is (not) reacting
The full picture might just not be seen, Oleksandr Merezhko, the chairman of the parliamentary foreign policy committee, says. He assumes some of the communication about Russia’s planned terrorist attack might be off the record.

Publicly, statements about the ZNPP are currently made mostly at the parliamentary level.

The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe has passed a resolution recognising Russia’s intention to blow up the ZNPP, which would pose a threat to the entire continent.

"This amendment was included by voice vote," Mr Merezhko, who is a member of the Ukrainian delegation, clarifies.

Across the pond, US senators Lindsey Graham and Richard Blumenthal proposed that any use of nuclear weapons by Russia or its proxies be considered an attack on NATO, triggering the collective defence clause.

Messrs Merezhko and Kostenko believe a similar logic should apply to a potential terrorist attack on the Zaporizhzhia NPP.

"This is one of the signals we need to send to the Kremlin to let them know how high the risks are," Viola von Cramon, an MEP, told LIGA.net. "We also need to raise awareness among Russians that the radioactive cloud and wind do not respect state borders and can easily be carried to Russia."
US senators are well aware of the nature of the Russian-Ukrainian war, Mr Podoliak says, but there are doubts that their initiative will be eventually passed.

"Such a law would drastically sober up the Russian Federation. But I very much doubt that such well-intentioned radical initiatives will be approved until Ukraine wins the war," he admits.

On a higher level, Polish prime minister Mateusz Morawiecki was one of the few to speak, assuring Warsaw was doing everything possible to exert more pressure on Russia.

White House’s John Kirby said that the United States is closely monitoring the situation but has not yet seen any signs that the threat is inevitable.

According to Mr Podoliak, Ukraine’s partners understand the Russians are capable of using the mining of critical infrastructure facilities to hinder the counteroffensive, but global powers such as the US are not resorting to harsher rhetoric to leave at least some room for dialogue.

"Our rhetoric is also clear. We are directly in the affected area. Our intelligence is monitoring the processes around the Zaporizhzhia NPP more intensively and deeply," he explains.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 30, 2023, 09:46
Five steps to make Russia regret
Non-public contacts and statements by MPs are not enough, says Mr Merezhko.

"We need preventive measures, including statements by the ‘nuclear club’ states, an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council, tighter sanctions and isolation of Russia, and the IAEA’s response," he adds.

Kyiv is trying to convey to its partners that it is necessary to prevent the catastrophe rather than respond to it, and has offered a five-point plan.

1. Sanctions against Rosatom

Russia’s state nuclear energy agency is now not excluded from the global market, Mr Podoliak explains, meaning it can still build nuclear power plants, sell raw materials, purchase technologies, and generate the lion’s share of Russia’s foreign revenues.

"It would be great if we could get a concrete promise from our partners right now that Rosatom will be immediately sanctioned if there is activity at the ZNPP," he explains.
2. Nuclear safety summit

The summit should see the countries, especially the nuclear ones, declare their position on the use of both tactical nuclear weapons and the explosion at the ZNPP for military benefit.

"A summit with a public reaction and a resolution would be good," the Ukrainian official adds.

3. UN hearing

Although Russia is using the UN Security Council as a propaganda platform, Mr Podoliak believes it would be advisable to hold a UN hearing on the issue to underscore the inadmissibility of using nuclear technology in war and its legal consequences.

4. Informal contacts with nuclear countries, including China and India

"We need to strengthen communication with China and India to put additional pressure on the Kremlin to avoid nuclear provocations," Ms von Cramon adds.

"Although China and India have not condemned Russia for its invasion of Ukraine and are partly profiting from the war, they clearly understand that any nuclear provocation will exponentially reduce global security."

Mr Kostenko says it is necessary to work with other states, such as Kazakhstan and other Central Asian countries which may also be affected by a potential catastrophe.

"Perhaps Russia will somehow listen to them as well, for fear of losing at least some partners," the MP explains.

5. IAEA’s wider involvement

Expanding the number and level of the IAEA mission at the Zaporizhzhia NPP may work – at least partially, Mr Klimkin believes.

"To create a security zone and withdraw Russian troops from the ZNPP and leave operational control over the site and the area around it to the IAEA," he adds.

The Ukrainian side has already proposed a similar plan to the IAEA chief, Mr Podolyak says, involving the withdrawal of Russian troops and equipment and the establishment of a 30-kilometre demilitarised zone around the station.

"But there is little hope for the IAEA, this organisation is in a deplorable state."

More radical steps
Only the protection of the ZNPP by international troops can truly guarantee nuclear safety, Mr Kubilius is convinced, adding the Kremlin will not be stopped by anything else.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 30, 2023, 09:46
"It doesn't matter whether it's a UN peacekeeping mission, NATO or something else," the MEP says. "What can really stop the Kremlin from any provocations is the establishment of a completely different control over the ZNPP."
While Mr Kubilius admits that the idea is pure theory at the moment, he stresses that in order to achieve such a solution, the Western community needs to realise the danger it and Ukraine are facing.

"We can make harsh statements against Mr Putin’s policy, but this will not change the situation," he concludes.

"Yes, the idea of peacekeepers is theoretical. But we have to speak out loudly about it, and I am taking this opportunity. What can change the situation is the removal of Russian control over the ZNPP."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 30, 2023, 09:54
Mike Pence
@Mike_Pence
"While I strongly support American involvement in Ukraine, I heard again today frustration about how slow the Biden Administration has been in providing that military support. We are the most powerful Nation on Earth, we have the most powerful military on Earth, and we ought to be providing them with what they need to win."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1674598630748037121

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 30, 2023, 09:56
There is information that the Russian occupiers today began to take out part of the military and part of the personnel from the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant. This suggests that in the coming days the Russians will blow up nuclear power plants.
Why is the world media silent? Why doesn't the whole world care? Radiation can reach the EU countries and not only.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on June 30, 2023, 11:33
You do realize you are talking to yourself here, right? 22 posts in a row from just you, with me now interrupting your winning streak.
Well as long as you are having fun :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 30, 2023, 11:37
So, there is information that the Russians will commit a terrorist act at the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant during the NATO summit. It's July 11th. Possibly blown up on July 10th.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 30, 2023, 12:11
You do realize you are talking to yourself here, right?
Wrong, as usual. He is clearly talking to you. That makes at least 3, counting myself. ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on June 30, 2023, 12:16
You do realize you are talking to yourself here, right?
Wrong, as usual. He is clearly talking to you. That makes at least 3, counting myself. ;)
In fact, I don’t talk to anyone and I don’t write to anyone specifically. I write because I can't not write. When people have questions, I answer if I know the answer.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: DroneNamibia on June 30, 2023, 12:58
Ukrodreams, writing for the sake of writing. Keep on if you have nothing else to do. Reality is very different from your dreams.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on June 30, 2023, 13:45
Can someone explain to Biden that Russia is at war with Ukraine and not Iraq :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bewxXroFoCI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bewxXroFoCI)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on June 30, 2023, 14:41
Ukrodreams, writing for the sake of writing. Keep on if you have nothing else to do. Reality is very different from your dreams.

See how wrong you are, SVH? He is talking to at least 4 of us!  :P
In other words, today, more than half of his confirmed audience is made of putin apologists.
And that's very good! 👍
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on June 30, 2023, 21:28
That makes 5 of us  :D

I like reading Stoker's posts. He's better than CNN  ;) - but he does report on some issues that they haven't, and when checked, yep, they happened.

I guess the answer for those who don't, is to just ignore the thread.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 01, 2023, 01:07
Ukrodreams, writing for the sake of writing. Keep on if you have nothing else to do. Reality is very different from your dreams.
See how wrong you are, SVH? He is talking to at least 4 of us!  :P
In other words, today, more than half of his confirmed audience is made of putin apologists.
And that's very good! 👍


You are right. Good to see he still has an audience. I was almost feeling sorry for him :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 01, 2023, 04:53
He's better than CNN  ;)
;D :o 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 01, 2023, 07:19
Ukrodreams, writing for the sake of writing. Keep on if you have nothing else to do. Reality is very different from your dreams.
See how wrong you are, SVH? He is talking to at least 4 of us!  :P
In other words, today, more than half of his confirmed audience is made of putin apologists.
And that's very good! 👍


You are right. Good to see he still has an audience. I was almost feeling sorry for him :)

Don't worry about that.

A decent human being should rather empathize with the unimaginable pain his country and fellow citizens are going through, because of the immoral, illegal, and unprovoked russian invasion.

You should feel sorry for those:

- 492 murdered children
- 1,031 wounded children
- 9,083 murdered civilians (and that's excluding Mariupol, where we will most likely discover another genocide once it will be freed, after seeing hectares of mass graves from the Maxar satellites)
- 6.3 million refugees (without taking into consideration the forced deportation from the illegally annexed territories)
- 158,000 destroyed or damaged homes
- 1,544 hospitals, clinics, and other civilian medical facilities destroyed or damaged
- 3,328 schools, high schools, and universities destroyed or damaged
- 411 billion dollars in losses because of destroyed industrial capacities (like Azovstal or Azom) and that was before the destruction of the Nova Khakova dam.
- 55.7 billion dollars required to restore the environmental damages.

in brief, you should feel sorry for the genocide against the Ukrainian people, instead of stocker2014's perceived lack of audience.  :-\

(and cut him some slack, when the emotional war news he is sharing are not always 100% accurate)

putin is a war criminal.

Slava Ukraini!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 01, 2023, 07:40
If russia blows up the ukraine nuclear plant and the radioactive fallout reaches nato countries, it will be considered an attack on Nato.

Nato then must respond.

All countries should make this the clearest red line possible.

Europe as well. Europe also has a military alliance.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 01, 2023, 13:05
You do realize you are talking to yourself here, right? 22 posts in a row from just you, with me now interrupting your winning streak.
Well as long as you are having fun :)

I am reading that. However, I have inflammation in my wrist. Therefore, at the moment it hurts me to write and therefore I do not participate in due measure.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 01, 2023, 13:10
I also read in other source how much the Russian propaganda machinery is trying to spread false information everywhere. It is frightening! But writing with the left hand is exhausting and time-consuming for a right-handed person. Hence my current reluctance.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 01, 2023, 15:12
You do realize you are talking to yourself here, right? 22 posts in a row from just you, with me now interrupting your winning streak.
Well as long as you are having fun :)

I am reading that. However, I have inflammation in my wrist. Therefore, at the moment it hurts me to write and therefore I do not participate in due measure.

I am just bringing his buddies back to this thread. See, everyone is here now again. You left him alone for quite some time, shame on you.

And you're welcome :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 01, 2023, 15:30
You do realize you are talking to yourself here, right? 22 posts in a row from just you, with me now interrupting your winning streak.
Well as long as you are having fun :)

I am reading that. However, I have inflammation in my wrist. Therefore, at the moment it hurts me to write and therefore I do not participate in due measure.

I am just bringing his buddies back to this thread. See, everyone is here now again. You left him alone for quite some time, shame on you.

And you're welcome :)

I‘m not his buddy! And I left nobody alone!

As you could read, I was far from agreeing with everything he wrote. I have my reasons for that. But he deals with grievances very intensively and speaks his mind. And wants to defend the unjustly attacked nation. I appreciate that very much and he gets my full respect for that. That others here do not get from me. Because they are obviously not able to feel and understand what is going on in this battered nation and who is responsible for it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 01, 2023, 15:57
You do realize you are talking to yourself here, right? 22 posts in a row from just you, with me now interrupting your winning streak.
Well as long as you are having fun :)

I am reading that. However, I have inflammation in my wrist. Therefore, at the moment it hurts me to write and therefore I do not participate in due measure.

I am just bringing his buddies back to this thread. See, everyone is here now again. You left him alone for quite some time, shame on you.

And you're welcome :)

I‘m not his buddy! And I left nobody alone!

As you could read, I was far from agreeing with everything he wrote. I have my reasons for that. But he deals with grievances very intensively and speaks his mind. And wants to defend the unjustly attacked nation. I appreciate that very much and he gets my full respect for that. That others here do not get from me. Because they are obviously not able to feel and understand what is going on in this battered nation and who is responsible for it.

wow, that's it in a nutshell. Brilliantly said, and I totally agree.

But I just came on, Wilm, to say I am so sorry you're not well, and wish you a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 01, 2023, 16:16
You do realize you are talking to yourself here, right? 22 posts in a row from just you, with me now interrupting your winning streak.
Well as long as you are having fun :)

I am reading that. However, I have inflammation in my wrist. Therefore, at the moment it hurts me to write and therefore I do not participate in due measure.

I am just bringing his buddies back to this thread. See, everyone is here now again. You left him alone for quite some time, shame on you.

And you're welcome :)

I‘m not his buddy! And I left nobody alone!

As you could read, I was far from agreeing with everything he wrote. I have my reasons for that. But he deals with grievances very intensively and speaks his mind. And wants to defend the unjustly attacked nation. I appreciate that very much and he gets my full respect for that. That others here do not get from me. Because they are obviously not able to feel and understand what is going on in this battered nation and who is responsible for it.

wow, that's it in a nutshell. Brilliantly said, and I totally agree.

But I just came on, Wilm, to say I am so sorry you're not well, and wish you a speedy recovery.

Thank you very much for your kind words, Annie! Like so often before!  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 01, 2023, 16:54
Ukrodreams, writing for the sake of writing. Keep on if you have nothing else to do. Reality is very different from your dreams.
See how wrong you are, SVH? He is talking to at least 4 of us!  :P
In other words, today, more than half of his confirmed audience is made of putin apologists.
And that's very good! 👍


You are right. Good to see he still has an audience. I was almost feeling sorry for him :)

Don't worry about that.

A decent human being should rather empathize with the unimaginable pain his country and fellow citizens are going through, because of the immoral, illegal, and unprovoked russian invasion.

You should feel sorry for those:

- 492 murdered children
- 1,031 wounded children
- 9,083 murdered civilians (and that's excluding Mariupol, where we will most likely discover another genocide once it will be freed, after seeing hectares of mass graves from the Maxar satellites)
- 6.3 million refugees (without taking into consideration the forced deportation from the illegally annexed territories)
- 158,000 destroyed or damaged homes
- 1,544 hospitals, clinics, and other civilian medical facilities destroyed or damaged
- 3,328 schools, high schools, and universities destroyed or damaged
- 411 billion dollars in losses because of destroyed industrial capacities (like Azovstal or Azom) and that was before the destruction of the Nova Khakova dam.
- 55.7 billion dollars required to restore the environmental damages.

in brief, you should feel sorry for the genocide against the Ukrainian people, instead of stocker2014's perceived lack of audience.  :-\

(and cut him some slack, when the emotional war news he is sharing are not always 100% accurate)

putin is a war criminal.

Slava Ukraini!
During the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russia has forcibly transferred thousands of Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland.[3] The United Nations has stated that these deportations constitute war crimes.[3][4] The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for President of Russia Vladimir Putin[5] (who has explicitly supported the forced adoptions, including by enacting legislation to facilitate them)[6] and Children's Rights Commissioner Maria Lvova-Belova for their alleged involvement.[5] According to international law, including the 1948 Genocide Convention, such acts constitute genocide if done with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a nation or ethnic group.[7][a]

Ukrainian children have been abducted by the Russian state after their parents had been arrested by Russian occupation authorities or killed in the invasion,[8][9] or after becoming separated from their parents in an active war zone.[10] Children have also been abducted from Ukrainian state institutions in occupied areas, and through children's "summer camps" on Russian territory.[8] The abducted children have been subject to Russification;[6][10] raising children of war in a foreign nation and culture may constitute an act of genocide if intended to erase their national identity.[6]

Ukrainian authorities have verified the identities of[11] over 19,000 abducted children,[12] compiling and actively updating the data as part of an online platform: "Children of War". Russian authorities have claimed that over 700,000 Ukrainian children have been "evacuated", and Ukraine's ombudsman on children's rights believes that the actual number of abducted children may be in the hundreds of thousands.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
_______

Estimated and claimed casualties

Civilians - 42,000 killed. Time period: 24 February 2022 – 21 May 2023. Source: US estimate

In the destroyed city of Mariupol alone, Ukrainian officials believe at least 25,000 have been killed;[492] but investigations of morgue records indicate many more,[493] and some bodies remain uncollected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#Casualties
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 02, 2023, 02:49
The problem with the exact count of civilians killed by the Russians is that the Russians are importing mobile crematoria into the occupied territories. In these crematoria, they burn people, and they don't keep records. They did this, for example, in Mariupol.
This is done by the Russians to cover up their war crimes.

This is also written about here.
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3460048-russian-propaganda-denies-deploying-mobile-crematoria-in-ukraine.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3460048-russian-propaganda-denies-deploying-mobile-crematoria-in-ukraine.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 02, 2023, 04:03
This is such a public war. With live streaming via social media channels.

And still so many Russians support this.

I really don‘t understand Putin at all.

The people of Ukraine will never be his slaves. He already has more land than any other country on the planet and he has no idea how to run a country successfully.

And at the same time China is waiting patiently for him to completely exhaust his army, until they slowly move in to take his lands from him. With business contracts and without firing a single shot.

He could just hand over Russia to Chinese control now to speed up the process.

Europe should do a lot more to support Ukraine. Putin will never stop, Poland and the Baltics are next on his war list.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 02, 2023, 04:06
The abducted children thing is just beyond cruel.

I hope they all find their families via DNA test, maybe even as adults, but they will eventually be reunited.

Horrible. Putin is such a mad killer. A modern day Hitler.

Never thought I would see German history being repeated like this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 02, 2023, 08:17
Horrible. Putin is such a mad killer. A modern day Hitler.
Never thought I would see German history being repeated like this.
In those years, not only Hitler was an absolute evil, but Stalin too. In modern russia, Russians consider Stalin to be their hero. Hitler and Stalin were war criminals and committed crimes against humanity. Putin sees himself rather as Stalin's legal successor, and so do Russians.
What can be said about Stalin, he committed a lot of crimes. The greatest crime is the Holodomor in 1932-1933 in Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)
In total, Russians committed three Holodomors in Ukraine: 1921-1923, 1932-1933 and 1946-1947.

The problem is also that so far the totalitarian and fascist regime of the USSR has not been condemned by the world community. Therefore, putin and the Russians continue to act by the methods of Stalin and Hitler.

I recommend to everyone who has not seen it to watch a film about the Holodomor in Ukraine.
Mr Jones (2019 film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film))

trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7VoM1jlOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7VoM1jlOs)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 02, 2023, 10:17
There is information for Australia.
An inventory at the Australian Air Force, at the request of Ukraine for fighters, found 14 serviceable F/A-18 Hornet aircraft. Journalists of the publication got access to a report on the inventory of the condition of the fighters owned by the Royal Australian Air Force. The procedure was carried out by the American aerospace company RAVN at the request of Ukraine.
As it became known, if Australia really wants to transfer the F/A-18 Hornets to the Ukrainian Air Force, then only 14 aircraft are in working condition. Among them there are 11 single and three double fighters.
Each aircraft has flown more than 3,000 hours, which is about half the border limit. At the same time, the possibility of extending the service life is not excluded, due to which Ukraine will potentially be able to use the F/A-18 Hornets for two years.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-hornets-pitched-for-ukraine-can-fly-another-two-years-20230627-p5djpw (https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-hornets-pitched-for-ukraine-can-fly-another-two-years-20230627-p5djpw)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 02, 2023, 16:42
Important grammar rules:
 
1. When writing russia or putin it's ALWAYS  lower case 'r' and 'p' (in case you didn't notice it, in my previous posts)

2. When using emojis, the russian flag is ALWAYS preceded by a waste bin. As in: 🗑🇷🇺

Don't forget. And good night 👋
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 02, 2023, 18:15
Never thought I would see German history being repeated like this.

It is not exactly repeated. Contemporary Russia is just a caricature of Nazi Germany. Obviously, Putin was inspired by Hitler, but the execution has been pathetic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 04, 2023, 06:28
Armed Forces of Ukraine eliminate 231,030 Russian invaders already.

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2023_07/1688450569-782.jpg)

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 04, 2023, 13:47
There is information for Australia.
An inventory at the Australian Air Force, at the request of Ukraine for fighters, found 14 serviceable F/A-18 Hornet aircraft. Journalists of the publication got access to a report on the inventory of the condition of the fighters owned by the Royal Australian Air Force. The procedure was carried out by the American aerospace company RAVN at the request of Ukraine.
As it became known, if Australia really wants to transfer the F/A-18 Hornets to the Ukrainian Air Force, then only 14 aircraft are in working condition. Among them there are 11 single and three double fighters.
Each aircraft has flown more than 3,000 hours, which is about half the border limit. At the same time, the possibility of extending the service life is not excluded, due to which Ukraine will potentially be able to use the F/A-18 Hornets for two years.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-hornets-pitched-for-ukraine-can-fly-another-two-years-20230627-p5djpw (https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-hornets-pitched-for-ukraine-can-fly-another-two-years-20230627-p5djpw)

Thanks for the update, Stoker!

Did you watch Fareed's GPS show on Sunday night CNN? It was a very interesting this week. In his opening remarks he talked about how the expected life of a 15yo boy in Russia is less than Haiti (extremely low) - and that was before the war on Ukraine.

His main segment was about Putin losing power - I found the clip for that. See below. And his final comments were about how USA politicians are overfunded by political-bias groups and should be limited. For example, the NRA. Which is exactly what we were talking about earlier in this thread.


This is the Putin part - I'll see if I can find the others.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/07/02/exp-gps-krushcheva-remnick-intv-070210aseg1-cnni-world.cnn (https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/07/02/exp-gps-krushcheva-remnick-intv-070210aseg1-cnni-world.cnn)


More about his show - worth pre-recording it and series link, if you haven't already.

https://edition.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/fareed-zakaria-gps/episodes/bcb64bcb-0d68-4a5d-883a-b033011867ce (https://edition.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/fareed-zakaria-gps/episodes/bcb64bcb-0d68-4a5d-883a-b033011867ce)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 04, 2023, 21:34

I recommend to everyone who has not seen it to watch a film about the Holodomor in Ukraine.
Mr Jones (2019 film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film))

trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7VoM1jlOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7VoM1jlOs)

Thanks for the recommendation.
I just finished watching it (on Amazon Prime)
Quite a shocking and gruesome scene, the one when he shared a meal with those children.  :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 05, 2023, 04:34
Horrible. Putin is such a mad killer. A modern day Hitler.
Never thought I would see German history being repeated like this.
In those years, not only Hitler was an absolute evil, but Stalin too. In modern russia, Russians consider Stalin to be their hero. Hitler and Stalin were war criminals and committed crimes against humanity. Putin sees himself rather as Stalin's legal successor, and so do Russians.
What can be said about Stalin, he committed a lot of crimes. The greatest crime is the Holodomor in 1932-1933 in Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)
In total, Russians committed three Holodomors in Ukraine: 1921-1923, 1932-1933 and 1946-1947.

The problem is also that so far the totalitarian and fascist regime of the USSR has not been condemned by the world community. Therefore, putin and the Russians continue to act by the methods of Stalin and Hitler.

I recommend to everyone who has not seen it to watch a film about the Holodomor in Ukraine.
Mr Jones (2019 film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film))

trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7VoM1jlOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7VoM1jlOs)
I must admit that for too long I swallowed the propaganda about Russia in WW2. Let's not forget the war started with Stalin and Hitler agreeing to divide Poland between themselves. Or the massacres of Poles perpetrated by Russia afterwards.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 05, 2023, 06:58
Not just Poland. Also Baltic countries, Finland and Romanian territories were negociated between Hitler and Stalin, then annexed or split according to the agreed "spheres of influence".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

That's what also stays at the foundation of today's "russkiy mir" ideology used to justify the war in Ukraine and elsewhere.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 05, 2023, 08:42
There is information for Australia.
An inventory at the Australian Air Force, at the request of Ukraine for fighters, found 14 serviceable F/A-18 Hornet aircraft. Journalists of the publication got access to a report on the inventory of the condition of the fighters owned by the Royal Australian Air Force. The procedure was carried out by the American aerospace company RAVN at the request of Ukraine.
As it became known, if Australia really wants to transfer the F/A-18 Hornets to the Ukrainian Air Force, then only 14 aircraft are in working condition. Among them there are 11 single and three double fighters.
Each aircraft has flown more than 3,000 hours, which is about half the border limit. At the same time, the possibility of extending the service life is not excluded, due to which Ukraine will potentially be able to use the F/A-18 Hornets for two years.

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-hornets-pitched-for-ukraine-can-fly-another-two-years-20230627-p5djpw (https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/retired-raaf-hornets-pitched-for-ukraine-can-fly-another-two-years-20230627-p5djpw)

Thanks for the update, Stoker!

Did you watch Fareed's GPS show on Sunday night CNN? It was a very interesting this week. In his opening remarks he talked about how the expected life of a 15yo boy in Russia is less than Haiti (extremely low) - and that was before the war on Ukraine.

His main segment was about Putin losing power - I found the clip for that. See below. And his final comments were about how USA politicians are overfunded by political-bias groups and should be limited. For example, the NRA. Which is exactly what we were talking about earlier in this thread.


This is the Putin part - I'll see if I can find the others.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/07/02/exp-gps-krushcheva-remnick-intv-070210aseg1-cnni-world.cnn (https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/07/02/exp-gps-krushcheva-remnick-intv-070210aseg1-cnni-world.cnn)


More about his show - worth pre-recording it and series link, if you haven't already.

https://edition.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/fareed-zakaria-gps/episodes/bcb64bcb-0d68-4a5d-883a-b033011867ce (https://edition.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/fareed-zakaria-gps/episodes/bcb64bcb-0d68-4a5d-883a-b033011867ce)
I think that the assumption that putin is losing power is not true. The Russians showed the show they planned to show. All this insurrection was actually a well directed show.
Who is this Prigozhin can be read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevgeny_Prigozhin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yevgeny_Prigozhin)

I think Prigozhin is someone putin trusts. This organized crime group "Wagner private military company" is a group that carries out all the criminal orders of putin. OCG "Wagner" was practically surrounded by the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Bakhmut area and had to be destroyed. Therefore, the show was shown as allegedly the organized crime group "Wagner" is advancing on Moscow, although in fact the organized crime group "Wagner" was running away from Ukraine. This OCG "Wagner" deals with war crimes in the Middle East and Africa.
At the moment, I see no alternative to Putin in russia. There is no opposition in russia and most Russians support putin's war crimes.
But I will say this, the same Prigozhin can take the place of putin, for example, if putin decides so.
Perhaps for OCG "Wagner" putin came up with some other tasks, now these terrorists are in Belarus and lick their wounds there.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 05, 2023, 08:51

I recommend to everyone who has not seen it to watch a film about the Holodomor in Ukraine.
Mr Jones (2019 film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Jones_(2019_film))

trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7VoM1jlOs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7VoM1jlOs)

Thanks for the recommendation.
I just finished watching it (on Amazon Prime)
Quite a shocking and gruesome scene, the one when he shared a meal with those children.  :-\
Yes, in 1932-1933, about 10 million Ukrainians to kill by starvation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on July 05, 2023, 10:48
I hope the allies will give Ukraine everything they need to take back all of their country.  The hesitancy on aircraft, etc., is really frustrating.

The poor Ukrainians have been screwed over at every opportunity.  They gave up their nuclear weapons in 1994 with assurances that Russia would never do what they are doing now.  Unfortunately we know how much Russia honors its promises.  Hopefully the Ukrainians can drive out the invaders and gain entry into NATO so this cannot happen again.  The really frightening thing is how much it all depends on factors they can't control.  If Putin's asset had been re-elected in the US things would be very much worse and who knows what will happen in 2024.

One of the shocking things to me is that, everywhere you go in Russia, there are memorials to all those lost in the Great Patriotic War fighting the N***s - 15% of the population gone.  The Russians will never forget.  One of the people I worked with there still hated the Germans 60 years after the war ended.  Now Putin is trying to do in Ukraine what the Germans tried to do in Russia - and with the same effect.  No matter the outcome, the Ukrainians will hate Russia for the rest of eternity and there will be memorials all over Ukraine to remember those who fought against the invaders.  Putin should know this, yet models himself after the psychopath Stalin, who killed millions of Russians himself.  It seems psychopaths always admire other psychopaths.

The Russians are a wonderful people who deserve better leaders.  I hope they will rise up and replace the current one but their history doesn't bode well and the population is completely deceived by propaganda.  So many Russians and Ukrainians suffering because of one psychopath.  With all the evidence of Russian war crimes the world needs to do a better job of ending this terror so the Ukrainians can regain their country and live in peace.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 05, 2023, 11:37
sgoodwin4813, I put a plus on your post, in general it is normally written.

One of the people I worked with there still hated the Germans 60 years after the war ended.  Now Putin is trying to do in Ukraine what the Germans tried to do in Russia - and with the same effect. 
In fact, only Ukraine was completely occupied by the Nazi troops. Russia was occupied quite a bit. I give a photo.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Second_World_War_Europe_09_1942_de.svg/800px-Second_World_War_Europe_09_1942_de.svg.png)

The Russians are a wonderful people who deserve better leaders.
:o :o :o
In what year or century were the Russians wonderful people?.... The whole history of Russians and Russia is occupation, genocide and war crimes against other peoples. And now it's the same.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on July 05, 2023, 17:01
In what year or century were the Russians wonderful people?..

I've been to Russia five times and met many wonderful people.  I am talking about them as individuals, not Russia as a political entity.  In that case I agree that the Russians have been terrible throughout the centuries.  However, individually they are just as good as people everywhere - very warm and fun loving despite centuries of being oppressed by bad leaders.  Unfortunately I would not visit nowadays - too much chance of being held as a political pawn.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 05, 2023, 17:21

I've been to Russia five times and met many wonderful people.  I am talking about them as individuals, not Russia as a political entity.  In that case I agree that the Russians have been terrible throughout the centuries.  However, individually they are just as good as people everywhere - very warm and fun loving despite centuries of being oppressed by bad leaders.  Unfortunately I would not visit nowadays - too much chance of being held as a political pawn.

Yeah, "it's Putin's war" as some are saying. Ordinary russians are "peace loving people"!
Except for these "wonderful" people, nobody forced to openly admire war criminals:

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 06, 2023, 02:30
"Wonderful Russians"

(https://api.theins.ru/images/rp0OKGNkDHB0FJbizw8fbWTb1beeL3kOYwfjJ7mG9EU/rs:auto:877:579:0:0/dpr:1/q:90/bG9jYWw6L3B1Ymxp/Yy9zdG9yYWdlL3Bv/c3QvMjUxNDA2L2Zp/bGUtYzZhYmJkMjU0/M2ZjNDNjNWY1Yjcx/MTI3NmY1MmMxOTEu/cG5n.jpg)

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/4/c/4c4716a--------.jpg)

https://youtu.be/F2sfPZgERrU

(https://aussiedlerbote.de/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/chto-oznachaet-bukva-z-na-rossijskoj-texnike-4.jpg)

(https://i.obozrevatel.com/news/2022/3/16/filestoragetemp-2022-03-16t163211-013.jfif?size=630x300)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7q7Po-I469Ay4RyyKSfBiQOy_k_SHIPQP423tg1LOtxEqEOetAHhpaTkMDHVYukCjOfQ&usqp=CAU)

And video
https://youtu.be/F2sfPZgERrU
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 06, 2023, 03:45
However, individually they are just as good as people everywhere - very warm and fun loving despite centuries of being oppressed by bad leaders.
Oh yes, if you look at any one Russian, you may even get the impression that this Russian is adequate and even good, and does not look like a monkey. But as soon as these Russians gather in a group, they immediately turn into evil trolls, orcs and zombies. Russians by nationality appeared on planet earth only a few centuries ago, they are a mixture of different nations. Genetic error.
And you are mistaken, no one oppresses Russians, this is their way of life, mentality, philosophy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 06, 2023, 06:58
You are going too far, Stoker. Genetics have nothing to do with it. It's the degenerate nationalistic propaganda and constant brainwashing, from kindergarten onwards, flourishing on a religious and cultural foundation.

It is true that some of people may be forced to show their adhesion to the "cause", especially when they are at work or school, for example.

But nobody forced a teenage girl to carry a Wagner bag in public.
Or to take selfies with a Wagner tank, or with the war criminal Prigozhin.

Other countries are not immune to this cultural-religious essence ready to embrace nationalistic propaganda.

The world simply changed at a much faster rate than a (probably minority) part of European and US citizens could digest.  And russia's military doctrine of hybrid warfare has been scientifically and systematically exploiting this for more than a decade.

These European an US citizens "left behind" are the ones who also caused Brexit and MAGA and the relaunch of fascism inside the EU and the US.  Because putin/russia simply tells them what they want to hear, and they have the (false) sense that they understand putin better than their own children.

We have several examples even in this forum, ready to prove this point.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 06, 2023, 09:47
Yes, it looks like I'm going too far. But, I have not yet found other cultural explanations anywhere. And it's not just about the atrocities of the Russians over the past 10-30 years, it's about the fact that these atrocities have not stopped since the 16th century (there were no Russians until the 16th century).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on July 06, 2023, 16:45
It's the degenerate nationalistic propaganda and constant brainwashing, from kindergarten onwards, flourishing on a religious and cultural foundation.

...

Other countries are not immune to this cultural-religious essence ready to embrace nationalistic propaganda.

...

These European an US citizens "left behind" are the ones who also caused Brexit and MAGA and the relaunch of fascism inside the EU and the US.  Because putin/russia simply tells them what they want to hear, and they have the (false) sense that they understand putin better than their own children.

That pretty much sums it up.  I've met many Russians who are good people and don't support what their government does, but can't do much about it or they will be put in jail or worse.  Not all Russians are willing mass murderers!  That would be like saying everyone in the US was a Christo-fascist bigot based on the previous person in the White House.  Unfortunately, too many people are easily influenced by propaganda and get hyped up on nationalistic nonsense to do things they ordinarily would not.  I am not defending them, it is just a sad commentary on our species.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 06, 2023, 17:02
However, individually they are just as good as people everywhere - very warm and fun loving despite centuries of being oppressed by bad leaders.
Oh yes, if you look at any one Russian, you may even get the impression that this Russian is adequate and even good, and does not look like a monkey. But as soon as these Russians gather in a group, they immediately turn into evil trolls, orcs and zombies. Russians by nationality appeared on planet earth only a few centuries ago, they are a mixture of different nations. Genetic error.
And you are mistaken, no one oppresses Russians, this is their way of life, mentality, philosophy.

I don't want to read these sweeping and stereotypical assessments. They are wrong! They stir up hatred! More hatred. We need the opposite to avoid these senseless wars, which are based exactly on such stereotypical thinking.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 06, 2023, 17:39
But the problem is indeed that many russians that live abroad, who are integrated, for instance here in Germany, speak German, have a job, work well..are amazing supporters of putin.

He seems to be their murderous version of Trump.

And unlike the Germans in the 1930s after the * took over all media, they have access to any information they want right on their mobile phone.

And yet they choose to believe the most outrageous stuff, that Ukraine is destroying their own country, klling their own children just to take pictures and stage videos...

How is this possible?

I am seeing what is Germanys cruel history being recreated in 2023 in a totally public way.

For those in russia, I don't know what centuries of being slaves does to you.

But those abroad? Why?



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 06, 2023, 20:02
But the problem is indeed that many russians that live abroad, who are integrated, for instance here in Germany, speak German, have a job, work well..are amazing supporters of putin.

He seems to be their murderous version of Trump.

And unlike the Germans in the 1930s after the * took over all media, they have access to any information they want right on their mobile phone.

And yet they choose to believe the most outrageous stuff, that Ukraine is destroying their own country, klling their own children just to take pictures and stage videos...

How is this possible?

I am seeing what is Germanys cruel history being recreated in 2023 in a totally public way.

For those in russia, I don't know what centuries of being slaves does to you.

But those abroad? Why?

I think the reason is the gigantic russian inferiority complex. Deep down, they know they lost the Cold War, they know that their country sucks, many people don't have toilets or running water. And putin turned their inferiority complex into a superiority propaganda. A gigantic lie and a scam. But it made them happy.

(https://i.imgur.com/GhMXAKL.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/egjlwA8.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5bGaACB.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UYQ7SAN.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 07, 2023, 02:30
I am seeing what is Germanys cruel history being recreated in 2023 in a totally public way.
It is only recently that the world media began to talk about Russia and Russians. In fact, fascism has flourished in Russia since the days of Stalin and their revolution in 1917. And until 1917 the Russians were barbarians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 07, 2023, 02:47
The numbers in these images are mind boggling.

In 2023 millions of people don't have toilets, running water, warm water?

What kind of dictator is Putin?

Even the tyrants of the Middle East make sure people have running water. Unless it is an active war zone like in Yemen.

So why would those living abroad who truly know the difference still be attracted and of service to putin??

It is similar to asking why people love Trump or Erdogan, but putin is actively killing russians by the thousands and wants to enlist even more of their children.

How man of their sons have to die in a useless war putin cannot win?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on July 07, 2023, 03:43
It's the degenerate nationalistic propaganda and constant brainwashing, from kindergarten onwards, flourishing on a religious and cultural foundation.

...

Other countries are not immune to this cultural-religious essence ready to embrace nationalistic propaganda.

...

These European an US citizens "left behind" are the ones who also caused Brexit and MAGA and the relaunch of fascism inside the EU and the US.  Because putin/russia simply tells them what they want to hear, and they have the (false) sense that they understand putin better than their own children.

That pretty much sums it up.  I've met many Russians who are good people and don't support what their government does, but can't do much about it or they will be put in jail or worse.  Not all Russians are willing mass murderers!  That would be like saying everyone in the US was a Christo-fascist bigot based on the previous person in the White House.  Unfortunately, too many people are easily influenced by propaganda and get hyped up on nationalistic nonsense to do things they ordinarily would not.  I am not defending them, it is just a sad commentary on our species.

Look at the influence and damage that MAGA, Brexit or other very nationalistic propaganda in other countries can do in a few years to well established democracies, and stretch that out over generations. This is what most Russians and their ancestors had to encounter and this is what you have to keep in mind when judging them. Most Russians have a history of living as peasants, living under very oppressive regimes and corruption-driven governments that just tells them what to do, how to think, how to act, with very harsh measures taken against opposing voices and movements. Many historians trying to understand what's currently going on refer to that history, and point out that most Russians are very apathic and negative towards their leaders and governments, but at the same time, just go along because they don't know any better, the ones who know better still go along because there is no way to fight the system, they just try to get by for themselves.

Throw in the nostalgia some older generations feel for communism and the influence on the world Russia had back in those days and you get a better understanding why most Russians voice support for everything that Putin pulling of the last decade or so. It's business as usual for most of them, and a revival of the great Russia for others.

Small personal anecdote: I remember traveling Russia a 15 years ago or so, when the political situation was way more relaxed, and of all my travels I found Russia to be the most hostile, uninviting, unfriendly and distant towards tourists or foreigners. The only way to really connect with Russians was to start drinking with them (which I don't recommend by the way, it's a game you can't win) and start talking about hard-work-misery, how great things could have been but are not, and about unaccomplishments and never realized greatness.
These are of course personal and individual anecdotes, but I always thought it said a lot about how many Russians really feel.

Whatever the outcome of the invasion and war in Ukraine will be, it will not fix the issues mentioned above. But it is a reminder for the rest of the world, and for the ones who live in more democratic regions. Vote whatever you want, but don't vote too authoritarian, it's very hard to get rid of and will finally lead to all of the above.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 07, 2023, 04:14
@roscoe

great post and the reason I love learning about so many non stock subjects on msg
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 07, 2023, 07:00
The numbers in these images are mind boggling.

In 2023 millions of people don't have toilets, running water, warm water?

What kind of dictator is Putin?

Even the tyrants of the Middle East make sure people have running water. Unless it is an active war zone like in Yemen.

So why would those living abroad who truly know the difference still be attracted and of service to putin??

It is similar to asking why people love Trump or Erdogan, but putin is actively killing russians by the thousands and wants to enlist even more of their children.

How man of their sons have to die in a useless war putin cannot win?
I could write a lot of things in continuation of this post, a lot of sharp, tough, cruel but truthful thoughts. But I won't write it here. The truth often shocks people.
I'll write this.

"What kind of dictator is Putin?"

I am not completely sure that this putin even exists and that he is alive. On TV, we are mainly shown his doubles (copies), he has many such copies. When putin came to international meetings, he never eat and drink anything, because was afraid that his DNA would be analyzed (DNA analysis will immediately show that czar in Russia is not real.). When putin led the Russian empire in the 90s, his DNA was known, then he did not hide this information.
So, the putin we are now seeing is a collective putin, different people-actors who are similar to each other. And this collective Putin is the legitimate representative of the Russians, because Russians support him.
The question may arise, who then controls russia? What difference does it make who. It could be China, it could be the Dacha consumer cooperative "Ozero" and other Russian bandits and criminals, the Russian mafia. The main thing here is different, the Russians support their fascist regime.

Dacha consumer cooperative "Ozero"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozero

"In 2023 millions of people don't have toilets, running water, warm water?"

For Russians, this is normal. They don't need any of this. For them, the main thing is that the Russian empire expands its borders, kills as many people as possible.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 07, 2023, 07:26
It is similar to asking why people love Trump
For some reason I think that the majority does not vote for Trump, but for the Republican Party.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 07, 2023, 07:30
""In 2023 millions of people don't have toilets, running water, warm water?"

For Russians, this is normal. They don't need any of this. For them, the main thing is that the Russian empire expands its borders, kills as many people as possible."

It makes no sense at all. For me. And why russians abroad would worship the man who is destroying their country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 07, 2023, 07:38
And why russians abroad would worship the man who is destroying their country.
It is a question or a statement?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 07, 2023, 07:56
Look at the influence and damage that MAGA, Brexit or other very nationalistic propaganda in other countries can do in a few years to well established democracies, and stretch that out over generations. This is what most Russians and their ancestors had to encounter and this is what you have to keep in mind when judging them. Most Russians have a history of living as peasants, living under very oppressive regimes and corruption-driven governments that just tells them what to do, how to think, how to act, with very harsh measures taken against opposing voices and movements. Many historians trying to understand what's currently going on refer to that history, and point out that most Russians are very apathic and negative towards their leaders and governments, but at the same time, just go along because they don't know any better, the ones who know better still go along because there is no way to fight the system, they just try to get by for themselves.

Throw in the nostalgia some older generations feel for communism and the influence on the world Russia had back in those days and you get a better understanding why most Russians voice support for everything that Putin pulling of the last decade or so. It's business as usual for most of them, and a revival of the great Russia for others.
:-\
This is a speech by a lawyer trying to justify a maniac and a serial killer. Maniacs and murderers should not be justified, but liquidated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 07, 2023, 07:57
It is similar to asking why people love Trump
For some reason I think that the majority does not vote for Trump, but for the Republican Party.

Not at all. The Republican Party IS trump's party. Those who still believe in traditional conservativism (instead of trump's national populism) are mocked and chastised as RINOs (Republicans In Name Only).
All Republicans must adhere to the cult of trump or else!

Besides, in the US, we don't have a true democracy, where all votes are equal.
For example, Wyoming has 2 senators, the same as California, meaning that the vote of a Wyoming resident is 68 times more powerful than the vote of a Californian, because California has 68 times more people, but the same 2 senators as Wyoming

Remember that trump didn't get a majority, not even a plurality of votes, but still became president in 2016.
You can call it a geocracy, since the land matters more than the people.
More details here:

https://wallethub.com/edu/how-much-is-your-vote-worth/7932
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 07, 2023, 08:45
I don't want to read these sweeping and stereotypical assessments. They are wrong! They stir up hatred! More hatred. We need the opposite to avoid these senseless wars, which are based exactly on such stereotypical thinking.

At the beginning of the war, I tried to engage in discussions with Russians in social media. I also sent mass emails to many people from a list of Russian email addresses. I lost my email, as the provider flagged me as a spammer. After a short time, I figured out that discussions with Putin's supporters were pointless. They behaved like philosophical zombies...

So, then I joined the NAFO and interacted with Russians in a different manner.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 07, 2023, 09:14
The numbers in these images are mind boggling.

In 2023 millions of people don't have toilets, running water, warm water?

What kind of dictator is Putin?

Even the tyrants of the Middle East make sure people have running water. Unless it is an active war zone like in Yemen.

Sanitation is not only a russian problem but also a problem some former communist countries still have to deal with.
The difference is that these countries are directing their (limited) funds in such infrastructure projects, instead of wasting vast resources on waging wars on neighbors.
Anyway, kudos to Ukraine for virtually solving this problem.
(2022 UNICEF percentages below)


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 07, 2023, 09:57
It is similar to asking why people love Trump
For some reason I think that the majority does not vote for Trump, but for the Republican Party.

Not at all. The Republican Party IS trump's party. Those who still believe in traditional conservativism (instead of trump's national populism) are mocked and chastised as RINOs (Republicans In Name Only).
All Republicans must adhere to the cult of trump or else!
First time I'm reading this. In the same Congress, there are very few Republican supporters of Trump, only a few people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 07, 2023, 09:59
... and here is the percentage of the population using improved water supplies in 2022 in Europe:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 07, 2023, 10:05
It is similar to asking why people love Trump
For some reason I think that the majority does not vote for Trump, but for the Republican Party.

Not at all. The Republican Party IS trump's party. Those who still believe in traditional conservativism (instead of trump's national populism) are mocked and chastised as RINOs (Republicans In Name Only).
All Republicans must adhere to the cult of trump or else!
First time I'm reading this. In the same Congress, there are very few Republican supporters of Trump, only a few people.

Sorry, but this is highly incorrect, Stoker! Today's Republican Party IS trump's party. With very few exceptions (e.g. Mitt Romney) virtually all elected "republicans" endorsed trump and trumpism.
They shouldn't even call themselves Republicans, anymore.

The GOP (Grand Old Party) is now nothing else but a Nationalist-Populist Party, as mentioned above.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 02:07
It is similar to asking why people love Trump
For some reason I think that the majority does not vote for Trump, but for the Republican Party.

Not at all. The Republican Party IS trump's party. Those who still believe in traditional conservativism (instead of trump's national populism) are mocked and chastised as RINOs (Republicans In Name Only).
All Republicans must adhere to the cult of trump or else!
First time I'm reading this. In the same Congress, there are very few Republican supporters of Trump, only a few people.

Sorry, but this is highly incorrect, Stoker! Today's Republican Party IS trump's party. With very few exceptions (e.g. Mitt Romney) virtually all elected "republicans" endorsed trump and trumpism.
They shouldn't even call themselves Republicans, anymore.

The GOP (Grand Old Party) is now nothing else but a Nationalist-Populist Party, as mentioned above.
I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 08, 2023, 03:47
Just look at the record amount of donation money Trump keeps getting, or how full his rallys are.

Today Trump is the republican party.

The normal republican seems to have disappeared, or they now vote democrat while holding their nose.

Also the closest competitor to Trump is de Santis who is an even more sinister version of Trump.

Maga is todays republican.

There are a few groups like the Lincoln Project trying to advocate for a normal, rational republican party, but the voters absolutely want Trump. He is the favorite nominee for the next election.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 08, 2023, 05:57

I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.

Here's a recent poll, but any poll you find will show similar things:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/20/politics/cnn-poll-trump-indictment-republicans-2024/index.html

and here's some historical data:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

Trump had a 90% percent approval rating from Republicans for a long time, still viewed very favourably. Seems like a lot of the ones who lost "faith" have done so because he wasn’t extreme enough and are either moving to DeSantis (even more of a far right nut job) or think Trump has murdered people by pushing the satanic vaccine. So some realised Trump is a grifter and want a true believer.

Worth noting these people haven’t sprung up out of no where. Republicans have been the same way for a long time. Lib brain led people to believe the “fever will break” and they would snap out of it. How’s that working out?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 08, 2023, 07:06

I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.

I will repeat: you have to study how the US election system works.
In the US, what the majority wants doesn't matter as much as in a normal democracy.

The majority of the voters were against trump, and yet he became president in 2016, despite losing the popular vote.
He was very close to victory in 2020, without winning the popular vote.
The majority of the population IS against trump today, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have a solid chance to become president again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 08, 2023, 07:56
The US system is bizarre and not really democratic. It should be one human, one vote.

That empty stretches of land have a higher value than millions of people is crazy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 08, 2023, 08:13
The US system is crazy and not really democratic. It should be one human, one vote.

That empty stretches of land have a higher value than millions of people is crazy.
Is not just the land.

The "winner takes all" principle led to the widespread gerrymandering anomaly.

Those in power can stay in power by carving the election districts in a favorable way: where they lose, they lose 100%, and where they win, they barely win 51%-49%. This way, a party losing the popular vote, can send more representatives to Congress.

This can be understood with a tennis analogy: one can win a tennis match, despite losing more games.
Something like winning 3 sets to 2, with the game the scores of 0-6, 0-6, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4 => the match winner won 18 games, while the loser won 24 games.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 10:17

I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.

Here's a recent poll, but any poll you find will show similar things:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/20/politics/cnn-poll-trump-indictment-republicans-2024/index.html
Here I see the main answer to my question, Trump does not have serious support in the US.

"Among all Americans, 59% say that Trump ought to end his campaign now that he’s facing federal charges, with another 11% saying he should do so if convicted on these charges."

59%+11%=70%.
Total 60-70% of Americans are against Trump.

Where can I read what kind of support Trump has among congressmen in the Republican Party?

In russia, on the contrary, there are more than 70% of Russians support putin.

Just look at the record amount of donation money Trump keeps getting, or how full his rallys are.
Today Trump is the republican party.
I am sure that the Russians transfer money there too.


I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.

I will repeat: you have to study how the US election system works.
In the US, what the majority wants doesn't matter as much as in a normal democracy.

The majority of the voters was against trump, and yet he became president in 2016, despite losing the popular vote.
He was very close to victory in 2020, without wining the popular vote.
The majority of the population IS against trump today, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have a solid chance to become president again.
I am aware of the problems in the US electoral system, but I am not a US citizen, so I cannot condemn or approve of this system. I am sure that when the vast majority of citizens are against Trump, then he will not win elections under any electoral system.
In 2016, Russian hackers and trolls helped Trump win a lot. It also played against Hilary that she was a woman, not a man.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 08, 2023, 10:38
I agree that Trump is a puppet by a foreign enemy.

But of those that vote republican, he has the majority.

That does not mean he has the popular vote, far from it.

Also wouldn't be surprised if foreign entities invested heavily in analysing the weaknesses of the US election system and then maybe even pooling resources in their social media attacks to rise up politicians they pay.

The USA has interfered in many dictatorships, their populations are rising up because they see freedom elsewhere.

So for them to strike back at the heart of the US and get a puppet elected is true triumph.

It is also the way they run their "colonies". Fake elections to pretend popular support for their chosen pet ruler.

The free world has to become much wiser about the threat invading their social media feeds, coming into their homes and interacting with their children.

There is a huge information war targeting the US and other countries to weaken democracies.

So tyrants can keep telling their people - see...democracy is just chaos and violence...it does not work.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 08, 2023, 11:01
The US system is crazy and not really democratic. It should be one human, one vote.

That empty stretches of land have a higher value than millions of people is crazy.
Is not just the land.

The "winner takes all" principle led to the widespread gerrymandering anomaly.

Those in power can stay in power by carving the election districts in a favorable way: where they lose, they lose 100%, and where they win, they barely win 51%-49%. This way, a party losing the popular vote, can send more representatives in congress.

This can be understood with a tennis analogy: one can win a tennis match, despite losing more games.
Something like winnig 3 sets to 2, with the game the scores of 0-6, 0-6, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4 => the match winner won 18 games, while the loser won 24 games.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

Even though there might be a small majority winning you still have a completely divided country. If it was not Trump there will be somebody else. People are getting divided more and more and not just in the US. Europe the same. All parties spreading hate against each other.
More people on this world, more political envy, more scarce resources, more war. Things will get worse before they get better (if that latter will even happen some day). So, thinking of yourself is not a bad idea from a survival point of view. Can't say that the democrats are spreading love in the world. They think just the same. America first. But I can't blame them. Everybody does it and will do so increasingly. I pity my children that will not have the same upgrowing, save young adult life which I had (apart from personal dramas). Migration will also never stop. Not in the US and not in Europe. Everybody wants a better life but in the end everybody will have a worse life. Something like microstockers. It looked all great and now you get peanuts. No future. To many people, to little resources. But it will take some time. Enjoy the good life while it lasts :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 08, 2023, 11:58

Where can I read what kind of support Trump has among congressmen in the Republican Party?

Here is the list of elected officials who endorsed trump, during the last elections: count them and you will see that it's virtually all the GoP members of the congress.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign_political_endorsements

... and of course, if a VAST majority of the voters are rejecting trump, he can't win. But, as mentioned above he can win despite not having a majority, and even despite not having a plurality of the voters.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 08, 2023, 13:23
... and here is the percentage of the population using improved water supplies in 2022 in Europe:

hi zero talent i am kind of curious to know where did you find this graphic? is it from Unicef too? Can you post the link?
thanks in advance!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 13:27

Where can I read what kind of support Trump has among congressmen in the Republican Party?

Here is the list of elected officials who endorsed trump, during the last elections: count them and you will see that it's virtually all the GoP members of the congress.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign_political_endorsements
It's not quite right. Supporting the elections is one thing, the Republicans are obliged to do it. But to support or not to support Trump's policies and vote for something in Congress is completely different. As far as I know, Trump has very few supporters in Congress who are ready to vote for any nonsense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 08, 2023, 14:15
... and here is the percentage of the population using improved water supplies in 2022 in Europe:

hi zero talent i am kind of curious to know where did you find this graphic? is it from Unicef too? Can you post the link?
thanks in advance!

You can download the file from the UNiCEF website and play with it in excel (I filtered it for Europe only). There are two tabs.

https://data.unicef.org/topic/water-and-sanitation/sanitation/#data
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 08, 2023, 15:21

I am aware of the problems in the US electoral system, but I am not a US citizen, so I cannot condemn or approve of this system. I am sure that when the vast majority of citizens are against Trump, then he will not win elections under any electoral system.
In 2016, Russian hackers and trolls helped Trump win a lot. It also played against Hilary that she was a woman, not a man.

Back in 2008 when Obama won, it shocked the Republican party. Voter eligible turnout was at its highest at that time at 62.5% (see below - source Wiki) and pollsters and analysts were saying that if everyone in America voted, the Democrats will always win.

So thats when the Republican party started 'Redmapping'.

REDMAP (short for Redistricting Majority Project) is a project of the Republican State Leadership Committee of the United States to increase Republican control of congressional seats as well as state legislatures, largely through determination of electoral district boundaries. The project has made effective use of partisan gerrymandering, by relying on previously unavailable mapping software such as Maptitude to improve the precision with which district lines are strategically drawn.[1] The strategy was focused on swing blue states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, North Carolina, and Wisconsin where there was a Democratic majority but which they could swing towards Republican with appropriate redistricting. The project was launched in 2010 and estimated to have cost the Republican party around US$30 million - source Wiki.

Refer also:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2021/nov/12/gerrymander-redistricting-map-republicans-democrats-visual (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2021/nov/12/gerrymander-redistricting-map-republicans-democrats-visual)


See how they even draw around houses and streets to place voters into certain districts. Refer attachment below.

This shocked the Obama administration when they won again in 2012, but they couldn't do much because of the republican congress they inherited.


In 2020 there was another large eligible voter turnout, 66.9%, and Biden won. But this may not happen this time, with Biden not being so popular this time.

I am aware, Stoker, that you keep saying that congress will not support Trump, but I haven't seen any stats for that - do you have some? He has over 50% of the Republican voter support from stats that I have seen, and a Republican congress will support a Republican president over a Democrat one.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 08, 2023, 15:54
There are 2 flaws in the American voting system that can lead to an unfair and undemocratic process. 1, is that not everyone votes, and 2, when they register to vote they have to register as a Democrat, Republican or Independant.

For example, here in Australia, voting is compulsory so you get a much more realistic and democratic voter representation, but I am guessing that in the USA, that may be against their first amendment. Not sure.

And with the second one, registering upfront as how you intend to vote is unheard of in many countries and can lead to manipulation such as the Redmap gerrymandering outlined above.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 08, 2023, 17:54
But the problem is indeed that many russians that live abroad, who are integrated, for instance here in Germany, speak German, have a job, work well..are amazing supporters of putin.

He seems to be their murderous version of Trump.

And unlike the Germans in the 1930s after the * took over all media, they have access to any information they want right on their mobile phone.

And yet they choose to believe the most outrageous stuff, that Ukraine is destroying their own country, klling their own children just to take pictures and stage videos...

How is this possible?

I am seeing what is Germanys cruel history being recreated in 2023 in a totally public way.

For those in russia, I don't know what centuries of being slaves does to you.

But those abroad? Why?

I used to think that there was some big bully school somewhere where all these trolls, bullies, and dictators went to because their behaviour had all the same pattern. But I have since found out that their 'insanity' itself makes them very predictable.

People who are living in hardship or fear follow them because they are looking for strong leadership and mistakenly believe that their intimidating behaviour is one of strength, but they are full of fear, deep seated anger, and hatred themselves. They were usually brought up by a likewise intimidating parent or in an environment that made them that way. They are so out of touch with reality that the only pleasure they can derive is by being 'better than you".

Watch 'Putin and the Presidents' documentary to see how Putin has been playing this bluff game with the USA. "From FRONTLINE filmmaker Michael Kirk and his award-winning team, Putin and the Presidents traces how, prior to launching the war on Ukraine, Putin tested the waters by provoking and defying American presidents for 20 years — cyberattacking Estonia, invading Georgia, seizing Crimea, and interfering in a U.S. presidential election."



I have one troll on me at the moment. He follows everything I do, he hacks accounts, or creates fake ones, and messages me on platforms that my work is uploaded to that he can reach me. He's always at his worse when its Friday or Saturday night in the USA - I am guessing that is when he hits the bottle. His actions are all geared to saying to me, 'I know everything you do, I know how to manipulate you into closing your accounts, find minor faults with everything you do, destroy any pleasure in what you do, and therefore I AM BETTER THAN YOU'.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 09, 2023, 02:19
I am aware, Stoker, that you keep saying that congress will not support Trump, but I haven't seen any stats for that - do you have some?
I know that there are Republicans and there are Trumpists (the Trumpist wing). And it's not the same.
The media called people in Congress who are Trump fans, and there were very few of them, but I can’t find their names now.
According to American law, acts passed by Congress must be signed by the president. When an American leader objects to a particular law, he can veto it. If after that the bill is again supported by two-thirds of the members of both houses of Congress, the veto is considered overridden and it enters into force.
There were similar cases during the time of Trump and in relation to Ukraine. Congress made decisions in favor of Ukraine by a majority vote, and Trump was forced to sign them or this was done without his consent. The policy in the USA is built on this, even if putin's agent comes to power, he is not able to make any catastrophic consequences.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 09, 2023, 02:26
I understand that people who live in the US or who live in countries that are members of NATO are very fond of Democrats and do not support Republicans. But, I don't like the policy of the Democrats.
Yes, I don't like Trump, because he talks nonsense and everything looks like he is for russia and for putin.
But, I also don't like Bill Clinton, who took weapons from Ukraine, I don't like Obama, who allowed the Russians to occupy Crimea and the eastern region. I don't like Biden, who did nothing to prevent the Russians from starting a full-scale war against Ukraine. Biden slows down the transfer of long-range aircraft and missiles to Ukraine.
The policy of the Democrats is very bad, people are massively suffering and dying.

The Budapest Memorandum was signed by the Democrats and the Democrats refused to comply with it. This greatly undermined the credibility of the United States around the world and led to numerous deaths of people and the environment in Ukraine.

Unlike Democrats, Republicans in Congress are almost all in favor of giving Ukraine as many weapons as possible.

__________
It has already reached the point that the Bill Clinton asks to be excused for his democratic policy. And who needs his apologies in Ukraine?

"The former US president apologizes to Ukrainians
He regrets that he persuaded Kyiv to give up nuclear weapons. Former US President Bill Clinton expressed regret for his role in the disarmament of Ukraine. During the interview, Clinton admitted that russia would not have invaded Ukraine if the Ukraine had nuclear deterrents. The former president of the United States emphasized that he felt a personal interest, because he forced the Ukrainian authorities to agree to give up nuclear weapons. Instead, in Kyiv they were afraid to do it, because they considered nuclear weapons the only thing that protected them from expansionist russia."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 09, 2023, 04:19
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/15/more-than-four-in-ten-republicans-now-say-the-us-is-providing-too-much-aid-to-ukraine/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/15/more-than-four-in-ten-republicans-now-say-the-us-is-providing-too-much-aid-to-ukraine/)

"Currently, 44% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the U.S. is giving too much aid to Ukraine, up modestly since January (40%) and the highest level since shortly after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year.

Just 14% of Democrats and Democratic leaners view the current level of U.S. aid as excessive, little changed in recent months."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 09, 2023, 05:22
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/15/more-than-four-in-ten-republicans-now-say-the-us-is-providing-too-much-aid-to-ukraine/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/15/more-than-four-in-ten-republicans-now-say-the-us-is-providing-too-much-aid-to-ukraine/)

"Currently, 44% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the U.S. is giving too much aid to Ukraine, up modestly since January (40%) and the highest level since shortly after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year.

Just 14% of Democrats and Democratic leaners view the current level of U.S. aid as excessive, little changed in recent months."

100-44=56.
As a result, about 60% of supporters of the republicans for more military assistance to Ukraine.
But I was not writing about US citizens, I was writing about congressmen of the Republican Party. It is they who make the decision.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 09, 2023, 09:28
Stoker, here is a relevant example:

The Senate voted 86-11 to pass a $40 billion Ukraine aid bill. The Senate also passed a $1.7 trillion government funding bill that included Ukraine aid. The Senate voted 68-29 for the funding package....
All of the "no" votes came from Republicans.


House of Representatives voted 368-57 to pass a roughly $40 billion bill to deliver aid to Ukraine...
All 57 votes in opposition were from Republicans
.

This will become much worse if trump becomes president again, since he is one of the biggest putin apologists.

Listen to me: the biggest threat for Ukraine, excluding putin, comes from the growing "Ukraine fatigue" inside the GoP.
As I said before, today's GoP is a far cry from what it used to be.

On the other hand, I agree with you that Obama made a big strategic mistake trying to appease putin by closing his eyes on the annexation of Crimea.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 09, 2023, 10:24
If Trump becomes President again he will hand over Ukraine wrapped in a red ribbon to Putin and personally have Zelensky trapped and killed by the CIA thugs he employs.

He will also pull the USA out of Nato and encourage putin to march first into the Baltic states and then into Poland.

He is a complete traitor and will do anything for money.

The way trump grovels in front of putin is just pitiful.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 09, 2023, 10:41
I have one troll on me at the moment. He follows everything I do, he hacks accounts, or creates fake ones, and messages me on platforms that my work is uploaded to that he can reach me. He's always at his worse when its Friday or Saturday night in the USA - I am guessing that is when he hits the bottle. His actions are all geared to saying to me, 'I know everything you do, I know how to manipulate you into closing your accounts, find minor faults with everything you do, destroy any pleasure in what you do, and therefore I AM BETTER THAN YOU'.
That is terrible Annie.

Can't the stock agencies or the police help expose and get this person? This is criminal and should not be gone by.

Good luck with this. I hope the person gets caught and you get left alone.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 09, 2023, 11:17
Stoker, here is a relevant example:

The Senate voted 86-11 to pass a $40 billion Ukraine aid bill. The Senate also passed a $1.7 trillion government funding bill that included Ukraine aid. The Senate voted 68-29 for the funding package....
All of the "no" votes came from Republicans.


House of Representatives voted 368-57 to pass a roughly $40 billion bill to deliver aid to Ukraine...
All 57 votes in opposition were from Republicans
.

This will become much worse if trump becomes president again, since he is one of the biggest putin apologists.

Listen to me: the biggest threat for Ukraine, excluding putin, comes from the growing "Ukraine fatigue" inside the GoP.
As I said before, today's GoP is a far cry from what it used to be.

On the other hand, I agree with you that Obama made a big strategic mistake trying to appease putin by closing his eyes on the annexation of Crimea.
You didn't fully understand me. I am anti-Trump.
Yes, there are votes against from the Republicans, but as you can see for yourself, there are not many at all. This is most likely the Trump wing.
Understand that money is not everything in this world. What to do with money on the battlefield? For the rapid and massive elimination of Russians, aviation and long-range missiles are needed. It is also necessary that Ukraine is not prohibited from firing rockets at the Crimea, the Crimean bridge and at the territory of Russia. So, it is the Democrats who do not give Ukraine what is now needed on the battlefield. I know that the Republicans in the majority put pressure on the Democrats and demand to give more and more weapons to Ukraine. Not everything is decided by Trump.
It is too bad that the Republicans have not found anyone else and are constantly nominating Trump. But obviously their electorate for some reason only votes well for Trump. I have no illusions about Trump.

Just about, Bill Clinton took weapons from Ukraine, Obama closed his eyes, and Biden did not introduce normal sanctions in time, and now, as for me, sanctions against Russia are not enough. That is the policy of the Democrats. And I already wrote about the Budapest memorandum, which is generally bullying from the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 09, 2023, 11:40
Stoker, here is a relevant example:

The Senate voted 86-11 to pass a $40 billion Ukraine aid bill. The Senate also passed a $1.7 trillion government funding bill that included Ukraine aid. The Senate voted 68-29 for the funding package....
All of the "no" votes came from Republicans.


House of Representatives voted 368-57 to pass a roughly $40 billion bill to deliver aid to Ukraine...
All 57 votes in opposition were from Republicans
.

This will become much worse if trump becomes president again, since he is one of the biggest putin apologists.

Listen to me: the biggest threat for Ukraine, excluding putin, comes from the growing "Ukraine fatigue" inside the GoP.
As I said before, today's GoP is a far cry from what it used to be.

On the other hand, I agree with you that Obama made a big strategic mistake trying to appease putin by closing his eyes on the annexation of Crimea.
You didn't fully understand me. I am anti-Trump.
Yes, there are votes against from the Republicans, but as you can see for yourself, there are not many at all. This is most likely the Trump wing.
Understand that money is not everything in this world. What to do with money on the battlefield? For the rapid and massive elimination of Russians, aviation and long-range missiles are needed. It is also necessary that Ukraine is not prohibited from firing rockets at the Crimea, the Crimean bridge and at the territory of Russia. So, it is the Democrats who do not give Ukraine what is now needed on the battlefield. I know that the Republicans in the majority put pressure on the Democrats and demand to give more and more weapons to Ukraine. Not everything is decided by Trump.
It is too bad that the Republicans have not found anyone else and are constantly nominating Trump. But obviously their electorate for some reason only votes well for Trump. I have no illusions about Trump.

Just about, Bill Clinton took weapons from Ukraine, Obama closed his eyes, and Biden did not introduce normal sanctions in time, and now, as for me, sanctions against Russia are not enough. That is the policy of the Democrats. And I already wrote about the Budapest memorandum, which is generally bullying from the Democrats.

I agree that the support from the Biden administration could have been a bit less cautious. NATO could have implemented a no-fly zone above Ukraine, from day zero, similar to what has been done in former Yugoslavia.
The sanctions against putin's terror can be stricter, indeed.

But as you can see the Democrats voted unanimously to support Ukraine while in the GOP, for now, there is a non-negligible pro-trump faction of putin apologists, very vocal against any forms of aid for Ukraine. Right now, the Democrats are your winning card, not the GoP.

As we have seen during the previous 2 presidential elections, virtually all the GoP will openly endorse trump, as soon as he will become the party nominee.
Moreover, they will have to listen to what their voters are asking them to do (see the polls mentioned above).

When this will happen, you will kiss goodbye to all GoP (and implicitly, US) support for Ukraine.

PS (about presidential candidates):
The old school has more adherents in the 2024 field, including Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, and Tim Scott, who support sending Ukraine military equipment and weapons but not troops. This aligns with President Biden’s strategy, though they maintain that Mr. Biden is executing it wrong.

But the anti-interventionist wing is dominant in terms of influence, with two members, Donald J. Trump and Ron DeSantis, far outpolling everybody else.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 09, 2023, 12:13
Is this a good time to bring up Volhynia? There was a commemoration after all last week (the massive slaughter of Polish and Jewish people by Ukrainian nationalists).

https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/polish-demand-for-recognition-of-wwii-massacres-sparks-row-with-ukraine (https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/polish-demand-for-recognition-of-wwii-massacres-sparks-row-with-ukraine)

I bring this up because it's strange that the leaders of that massacre (like Stepan Bandera), are still being seen as heroes today in Ukraine, even increasingly the last few months. They should know better by now.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/01/12/stepan-bandera-the-ukrainian-anti-hero-glorified-following-the-russian-invasion_6011401_4.html (https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/01/12/stepan-bandera-the-ukrainian-anti-hero-glorified-following-the-russian-invasion_6011401_4.html))

Sweet people those Ukranians. But at least they have their beloved neo-nazi Azov commanders back:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/09/europe/azovstal-leaders-return-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/09/europe/azovstal-leaders-return-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html)

You can try to dress a wolf in sheep's clothing but people will notice anyway:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/06/03/ykgh-j03.html (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/06/03/ykgh-j03.html)

And sure you can start that this was a long time ago but wasn't it Zelensky lately trying to get the world to acknowledge the Holodomor as genoicide? Rightfully so, Stalin was one of the most vicuous dictators ever. But that was even way before WWII. So why does Zelensky get mad when something is asked from them in return? It's not that they have had a clean past.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 09, 2023, 12:17
... I forgot about another GoP candidate,  Vivek Ramaswamy who is parroting putin's propaganda ::)
Here is his latest tweet:

@JoeBiden needs to man up to his bully-friend Zelensky & clearly state that we are dead-set opposed to Ukrainian admission to NATO. This should be a hard red line. It’s shameful that even Republicans like @LindseyGrahamSC are now pushing for it. Stop marching us to the brink of nuclear war. For all the hand-wringing about the 1994 Budapest Memorandum (on which the U.S. has more than fulfilled its commitments), the neocon-Democrat establishment is shockingly silent on James Baker’s famous 1990 “Not-One-Inch” commitment to Gorbachev that NATO would never extend east of Germany. NATO was created to deter conflict with the USSR, yet NATO has expanded most rapidly *after* the fall of the USSR & is now *worsening* the risk of nuclear war with Russia itself. This is sheer lunacy. As President I’ll refuse to be bullied by an anti-democratic comedian-turned-leader & it’s truly mystifying to me that the rest of the West is eating out of this Pied Piper’s hand every day.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 09, 2023, 12:31
... I forgot about another GoP candidate,  Vivek Ramaswamy who is parroting putin's propaganda:

Here is his latest tweet:
@JoeBiden needs to man up to his bully-friend Zelensky & clearly state that we are dead-set opposed to Ukrainian admission to NATO. This should be a hard red line. It’s shameful that even Republicans like @LindseyGrahamSC are now pushing for it. Stop marching us to the brink of nuclear war. For all the hand-wringing about the 1994 Budapest Memorandum (on which the U.S. has more than fulfilled its commitments), the neocon-Democrat establishment is shockingly silent on James Baker’s famous 1990 “Not-One-Inch” commitment to Gorbachev that NATO would never extend east of Germany. NATO was created to deter conflict with the USSR, yet NATO has expanded most rapidly *after* the fall of the USSR & is now *worsening* the risk of nuclear war with Russia itself. This is sheer lunacy. As President I’ll refuse to be bullied by an anti-democratic comedian-turned-leader & it’s truly mystifying to me that the rest of the West is eating out of this Pied Piper’s hand every day.


And right this guy is. The western world is risking a lot in grabbing this country. And the EU is just dumb. This is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. They have a history of nazism and are still full of neo-nazi's today. You don't want this in your community. They pretend to be sweet but have comitted a coup and afterwards waged war against their own population in the east for a decade. Killing thousand of civilians and leaving more then a million homeless.

Again, the enemy of your enemy is not your friend. And people are risking a lot helping them. But nobody listens anymore. All just focussed on destroying russia. Good luck but do not complain if it will cost you dearly.

All it takes is a long range missile, delivered by Great Britain, that is fired upon Moscow. They promise they wouldn't but they have shown that their promises are not worth much.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 09, 2023, 14:36
Lol.
He is yet another useful idiot, craving for attention and as wrong as putin (or medvedev), whose words he is parroting.

Go back some pages and you will see that the whole story about Baker and Gorbachev, (disproved and discussed ad-nauseam) is proof of how effective russian propaganda is, and a crass distortion of the reality, by fools, by those putin apologists with interest in sowing discord among allies, or by those trying to differentiate themselves from common sense people, no matter how, like our wannabe president, Vivek.

The nuclear war threat is a nice play by putin, a good poker player, who fooled many Western leaders (Obama inclusive), afraid for too long to call his bluff.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 09, 2023, 15:12
Lol.
He is yet another useful idiot, craving for attention and as wrong as putin (or medvedev), whose words he is parroting.

Go back some pages and you will see that the whole story about Baker and Gorbachev, (disproved and discussed ad-nauseam) is a proof of how effective russian propaganda is, and a crass distortion of the reality, by fools, by those putin apologists with interest in sawing discord among allies, or by those trying to differentiate themselves from common sense people, no matter how, like our wannabe president, Vivek.

The nuclear war threat is a nice play by putin, a good poker player, who fooled many western leaders (Obama inclusive), afraid for too long to call his bluff.


Lol you. I am just a person with a different opnion. But according to you I am an useful idiot, a parrot, a fool, a Putin apologist, having no common sense. And that is the problem with social democrats these days, like you. You think you own the truth and everybody that deviates from your vision must be sick in the head and can be put away as an idiot. I bet I will win an IQ test against you any time.

It is you that is clearly misstaking here. This is just powerplay of the US and EU over Russia. They really don't care about Ukraine. Your beloved president Biden even thought that Russia was at war with Iraq instead of Ukraine, didn't even try to correct his statement. Ukraine is not important at all in this story. Russia is. If Ukraine was at war with Moldavia or Romania the US wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. So, are you willing to fight a full blown war with Russia? I am not. Not over Ukraine which is not a country in NATO, the EU or is as sweet as people like to paint them. Because they are not.

You are missing the point by a mile here what this is all about. You probably would like to reinstate McCarthy to prosecute, not democrats this time, but the people with a deviating opinion because obviously their are colluding with the russians, right?



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 09, 2023, 15:19
And that is the problem with social democrats these days, like you.
You got me wrong as everything else. I'm NOT a social democrat.
I would even gladly vote for Vivek if not for his foolishness in foreign affairs matters.

Here is the summary of his positions:

1. God is real.
2. There are two genders.
3. Human flourishing requires fossil fuels.
4. Reverse racism is racism.
5. An open border is no border.
6. Parents determine the education of their children.
7. The nuclear family is the greatest form of governance known to mankind.
8. Capitalism lifts people up from poverty.
9. There are three branches of the U.S. government, not four.
10. The U.S. Constitution is the strongest guarantor of freedoms in history.


Except for the first point (which must be replaced by 1. God is man-made), I more or less agree with the rest of his points, pending some nuances.

Your beloved president Biden...
You got me wrong, again, like everything else. Biden is NOT my "beloved" president. He is simply the only alternative at hand, instead of a trump disaster.

PS:
I bet I will win an IQ test against you any time.
Playing the "mine-is-bigger-than-yours" teenage games tells everything that needs to be known about someone's IQ  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 09, 2023, 15:33
I have one troll on me at the moment. He follows everything I do, he hacks accounts, or creates fake ones, and messages me on platforms that my work is uploaded to that he can reach me. He's always at his worse when its Friday or Saturday night in the USA - I am guessing that is when he hits the bottle. His actions are all geared to saying to me, 'I know everything you do, I know how to manipulate you into closing your accounts, find minor faults with everything you do, destroy any pleasure in what you do, and therefore I AM BETTER THAN YOU'.
That is terrible Annie.

Can't the stock agencies or the police help expose and get this person? This is criminal and should not be gone by.

Good luck with this. I hope the person gets caught and you get left alone.

+1

But as far as I‘ve unsterstood it correctly, it‘s not only about Annie‘s stock activities.

I hope that the idiot can be tracked out!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 09, 2023, 15:49
I hope that the idiot can be tracked out!
+1
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 10, 2023, 02:42
But the anti-interventionist wing is dominant in terms of influence, with two members, Donald J. Trump and Ron DeSantis, far outpolling everybody else.[/i]
I like the Republicans on matters of military foreign policy. And I don't like the Democrats very much, sorry about that. When the world is dealing with fascism, rashism, genocide, democrats are not very effective. Democrats do more harm than good.
But of course I don't like Trump and his supporters. And I know that if Trump or DeSantis becomes president, the US fight against global evil and terrorism will be worse than the Democrats do.
That's why I wrote that it's a pity that the Republicans are nominating personalities like Trump and DeSantis.
Now the Democrats are in power, but I have a lot of complaints against them, and many people suffer and die from their policies.

The place where a person lives determines his point of view. I understand people who live under the NATO umbrella, support the Democrats and dislike the Republicans. But as soon as this person begins to live in a country that is not part of NATO, his point of view regarding the Democrats will change very quickly.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 10, 2023, 03:19
PS (about presidential candidates):
The old school has more adherents in the 2024 field, including Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, and Tim Scott, who support sending Ukraine military equipment and weapons but not troops. This aligns with President Biden’s strategy, though they maintain that Mr. Biden is executing it wrong.
They say that Ukraine needs to deliver on time what is needed right now. They talk about aviation and long-range missiles.
Of course, according to the Budapest Memorandum, the United States should have sent troops to Ukraine to support it, or initially deployed military bases in Ukraine, or at least closed the sky over Ukraine, and also used aircraft against Russian terrorists.
Ukraine may resist the Russians, but Ukraine needs effective weapons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 10, 2023, 03:29
I think the most important thing coming out of this horror is that Europe must really learn to stand on their own feet and not rely on Uncle Sam as their battle angel for everything.

It is not enough to just send money, you need active war production and a really well trained European army. The US involvement to help Ukraine shouldn't even be necessary.

Ukraine should very soon be offered a joining of Nato. That should come first, long before getting into the EU. The latter is a very long and complicated process that will take over 10 years to complete, even without the burden of rebuilding.

But Europe should consider negotiating a security deal and easy work arrangements and travel with Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 10, 2023, 05:16
Armed Forces of Ukraine eliminate 231,030 Russian invaders already.

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2023_07/1688450569-782.jpg)

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!

As for the data of the killed Russian soldiers, a publication appeared today. According to the study, approx. 47,000 Russian soldiers have died.

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 10, 2023, 05:53
Very interesting study, Wilm. I like the smart use of analytics behind it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 10, 2023, 06:06
I think the most important thing coming out of this horror is that Europe must really learn to stand on their own feet and not rely on Uncle Sam as their battle angel for everything.

It is not enough to just send money, you need active war production and a really well trained European army. The US involvement to help Ukraine shouldn't even be necessary.

Ukraine should very soon be offered a joining of Nato. That should come first, long before getting into the EU. The latter is a very long and complicated process that will take over 10 years to complete, even without the burden of rebuilding.

But Europe should consider negotiating a security deal and easy work arrangements and travel with Ukrainians.

I do agree at some point but you see EC does not have an army itself. It is a unique economic and political union between 27 European countries. policies aim to ensure the free movement of people, goods, services and capital within the internal market.

In terms of defense it's different. For defense we all are united in NATO/OTAN with USA, Canada and UK.  After WW2, NATO was established to face the cold war but since then NATO has been left with this competence for "war production and trained European army". I do recall a couple years ago President Macron saying that NATO was a little "braindead" and it make sense to me because Russia had developed economic relations with europe, which would lead to believe that the iron curtain between russia and the west could be thinner with time.

History once again proved otherwise. We can't let our guard down, just as we can't guarantee economic and political union without some strong defense. I am not seeing European countries giving up their defense in favor of a European army because that will affect the sovereignty of each member country. And in terms of European elections, there are countries with an abstention rate close to 70%, which certainly makes this type of European army decision even more difficult.

In a short/medium term IMO the answer would be Europe must contribute more for a bigger and better NATO.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 10, 2023, 10:06
As for the data of the killed Russian soldiers, a publication appeared today. According to the study, approx. 47,000 Russian soldiers have died.
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead (https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead)
This is the data of the Russians, there is a lie. Do not believe what the Russians write.
Biden said that 100,000 Russians were liquidated in Bakhmut alone. And Bayhmut is only 10% of the front, if not less.
Those figures that I gave are still very much underestimated, you can multiply by 1.5 or 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlXFYvqKiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlXFYvqKiw)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 10, 2023, 10:15
I think the most important thing coming out of this horror is that Europe must really learn to stand on their own feet and not rely on Uncle Sam as their battle angel for everything.

It is not enough to just send money, you need active war production and a really well trained European army. The US involvement to help Ukraine shouldn't even be necessary.

Ukraine should very soon be offered a joining of Nato. That should come first, long before getting into the EU. The latter is a very long and complicated process that will take over 10 years to complete, even without the burden of rebuilding.

But Europe should consider negotiating a security deal and easy work arrangements and travel with Ukrainians.
EU countries should increase defense spending and contributions to the NATO budget accordingly. Also, Europe must understand that Russians are murderers, terrorists, criminals, barbarians, orcs and zombies. When this understanding comes, there will be no place for Russians in the democratic world.
Of course, Ukraine needs an army, Ukraine has it. Ukraine needs good weapons. Everything is bad with this.
The situation in Ukraine is similar to the situation if NATO did not protect, for example, Poland or Lithuania or Estonia. Ukraine hoped for the Budapest memorandum and expected US intervention.
Yes, there is the fault of Ukrainian politicians and corruption in Ukraine. For 30 years of independence, Ukraine could have had more weapons production, at least the quality of the Soviet era.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 10, 2023, 10:22
I also see that many do not have an understanding that Ukraine is being helped not because Russia attacked Ukraine, but only because putin put forward an ultimatum to the NATO bloc and the next countries will be Poland, the Baltic States, Germany, Hungary, Romania, etc. .
Ukraine is now protecting not only its freedom, but also the EU countries. In fact, Russia started a war against NATO, but so far only Ukraine is fighting for NATO.  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 10, 2023, 10:54
As we have seen during the previous 2 presidential elections, virtually all the GoP will openly endorse trump, as soon as he will become the party nominee.
Moreover, they will have to listen to what their voters are asking them to do (see the polls mentioned above).
Of course the party will support Trump, otherwise the Republican needs to leave the party. But that doesn't mean anything. Many Republicans will not vote for the crap that Trump will propose.
I don't understand what voter asking you're talking about.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 10, 2023, 11:56
As we have seen during the previous 2 presidential elections, virtually all the GoP will openly endorse trump, as soon as he will become the party nominee.
Moreover, they will have to listen to what their voters are asking them to do (see the polls mentioned above).
Of course the party will support Trump, otherwise the Republican needs to leave the party. But that doesn't mean anything. Many Republicans will not vote for the crap that Trump will propose.
I don't understand what voter asking you're talking about.

The elected representatives will have to listen to this:

Currently, 44% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the U.S. is giving too much aid to Ukraine, up modestly since January (40%) and the highest level since shortly after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year.


If they don't, they will not get elected.

And when trump will win the nomination, this number will go up, beyond 50%.

I understand that you have a nostalgia for the old school GoP. That's understandable. I too miss the existence of a true conservative movement in the US.
What you fail to realize is that these days are gone.
The days of McCain's GoP are gone. McCain was and still is disparaged, even after his death, by trump and his supporters in a nasty way. The same for the other old school Republicans they call "RINOs".

And if trump becomes president again, you can kiss goodbye to all aid for Ukraine. No GoP representative will dare to vote against him.

Your only realistic hope is to have anyone but trump in the White House and as few as possible of his cult followers in Congress.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 10, 2023, 14:05
As we have seen during the previous 2 presidential elections, virtually all the GoP will openly endorse trump, as soon as he will become the party nominee.
Moreover, they will have to listen to what their voters are asking them to do (see the polls mentioned above).
Of course the party will support Trump, otherwise the Republican needs to leave the party. But that doesn't mean anything. Many Republicans will not vote for the crap that Trump will propose.
I don't understand what voter asking you're talking about.

The elected representatives will have to listen to this:

Currently, 44% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the U.S. is giving too much aid to Ukraine, up modestly since January (40%) and the highest level since shortly after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year.


If they don't, they will not get elected.

And when trump will win the nomination, this number will go up, beyond 50%.

I understand that you have a nostalgia for the old school GoP. That's understandable. I too miss the existence of a true conservative movement in the US.
What you fail to realize is that these days are gone.
The days of McCain's GoP are gone. McCain was and still is disparaged, even after his death, by trump and his supporters in a nasty way. The same for the other old school Republicans they call "RINOs".

And if trump becomes president again, you can kiss goodbye to all aid for Ukraine. No GoP representative will dare to vote against him.

Your only realistic hope is to have anyone but trump in the White House and as few as possible of his cult followers in Congress.
I already wrote that 44% is a minority. Let's see the rest of your predictions. I don't want Trump in the White House. But even if he wins the elections, nothing catastrophic for Ukraine will happen. Little help from Biden either.
Yes, the Republicans don’t have a normal leader now, but I definitely won’t bury the party, who I am.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 10, 2023, 15:23
As we have seen during the previous 2 presidential elections, virtually all the GoP will openly endorse trump, as soon as he will become the party nominee.
Moreover, they will have to listen to what their voters are asking them to do (see the polls mentioned above).
Of course the party will support Trump, otherwise the Republican needs to leave the party. But that doesn't mean anything. Many Republicans will not vote for the crap that Trump will propose.
I don't understand what voter asking you're talking about.

The elected representatives will have to listen to this:

Currently, 44% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the U.S. is giving too much aid to Ukraine, up modestly since January (40%) and the highest level since shortly after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year.


If they don't, they will not get elected.

And when trump will win the nomination, this number will go up, beyond 50%.

I understand that you have a nostalgia for the old school GoP. That's understandable. I too miss the existence of a true conservative movement in the US.
What you fail to realize is that these days are gone.
The days of McCain's GoP are gone. McCain was and still is disparaged, even after his death, by trump and his supporters in a nasty way. The same for the other old school Republicans they call "RINOs".

And if trump becomes president again, you can kiss goodbye to all aid for Ukraine. No GoP representative will dare to vote against him.

Your only realistic hope is to have anyone but trump in the White House and as few as possible of his cult followers in Congress.
I already wrote that 44% is a minority. Let's see the rest of your predictions. I don't want Trump in the White House. But even if he wins the elections, nothing catastrophic for Ukraine will happen. Little help from Biden either.
Yes, the Republicans don’t have a normal leader now, but I definitely won’t bury the party, who I am.
Isn't it about time, that if Ukraine is your home nation as Zero says, you get away from your computer and go and fight beside your brothers and sisters? I hear all this hate from you but you are not pulling a lot of weight yourself, are you? Or did I miss something and are you disabled and can only vomit hate all the time on this forum?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 10, 2023, 16:04

As for the data of the killed Russian soldiers, a publication appeared today. According to the study, approx. 47,000 Russian soldiers have died.


Mordor started the invasion with about 200,000 orcs. Then they were forced to conduct a mobilization, adding how much? If I remember correctly, they added more than 300,000 orcs. But the results and territorial changes were barely noticeable.

Therefore 47,000 are highly unlikely. I think the Ukrainian estimates are closer to the truth than this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 10, 2023, 16:23
Is this a good time to bring up Volhynia? There was a commemoration after all last week (the massive slaughter of Polish and Jewish people by Ukrainian nationalists).

https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/polish-demand-for-recognition-of-wwii-massacres-sparks-row-with-ukraine (https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/polish-demand-for-recognition-of-wwii-massacres-sparks-row-with-ukraine)

I bring this up because it's strange that the leaders of that massacre (like Stepan Bandera), are still being seen as heroes today in Ukraine, even increasingly the last few months. They should know better by now.


No, it is not strange. The Ukrainian statehood is relatively fresh. And any nation, especially a young one, needs some heroes, any kind of heroes...

But Bandera will be soon forgotten, there will be no need for such "heroes", especially when that "hero" is despised by one of their most important allies.
After the war, there will be countless new Ukrainian heroes who defended their country against Mordor and the genocide that its orcs brought with them.

And all the tankies and vatniks of the world can weep as much as they want and they will not be able to change it. Both Ukrainians and Poles understand that they must be friends and that there is no alternative.

Ukrainian-Polish brotherhood is a fact now, Russia is being demilitarized, Ukraine will be in NATO and the EU, Finland has joined NATO, Europe doesn't need Russian gas anymore, Russia is a vassal state of China. A piece of sh** would have been a more successful Russian president than putin, and a better choice for Russia. And if putin owns Trump, what does it say about Trump?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 10, 2023, 16:53
As for the data of the killed Russian soldiers, a publication appeared today. According to the study, approx. 47,000 Russian soldiers have died.
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead (https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead)
This is the data of the Russians, there is a lie. Do not believe what the Russians write.
Biden said that 100,000 Russians were liquidated in Bakhmut alone. And Bayhmut is only 10% of the front, if not less.
Those figures that I gave are still very much underestimated, you can multiply by 1.5 or 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlXFYvqKiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlXFYvqKiw)

I don't believe anything because I have no idea what to believe.

I just wanted to express that different sources come to different numbers. How you can be sure that the figures you mentioned are correct or even significantly underestimated, as you write, I don't know either.

By the way, Dmitry Kobak is someone who has already uncovered Russia's embellished Corona statistics. According to his investigations, more than four times as many Russians died of corona than the Russian government's figures indicated.

I find it hard to believe that he would now have a scientific interest in whitewashing the numbers of deaths from the war.

If I were you, I would not believe the truth of all the pictures you publish here.

It is quite enough for the Russian trolls to cover the whole planet with countless untruths. We should not jump on this bandwagon!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 10, 2023, 17:34

No, it is not strange. The Ukrainian statehood is relatively fresh. And any nation, especially a young one, needs some heroes, any kind of heroes...

But Bandera will be soon forgotten, there will be no need for such "heroes", especially when that "hero" is despised by one of their most important allies.
After the war, there will be countless new Ukrainian heroes who defended their country against Mordor and the genocide that its orcs brought with them.

And all the tankies and vatniks of the world can weep as much as they want and they will not be able to change it. Both Ukrainians and Poles understand that they must be friends and that there is no alternative.

Ukrainian-Polish brotherhood is a fact now, Russia is being demilitarized, Ukraine will be in NATO and the EU, Finland has joined NATO, Europe doesn't need Russian gas anymore, Russia is a vassal state of China. A piece of sh** would have been a more successful Russian president than putin, and a better choice for Russia. And if putin owns Trump, what does it say about Trump?

A similar case is available from Romania.

General Ion Antonescu is also a controversial figure.
After the USSR occupied and annexed Bessarabia and Bukovina, provinces split between today's Republic of Moldova and Ukraine (as a consequence of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact), Antonescu, prime minister at the time, had no option left but to ally with the Germans and fight the soviets to free the occupied Romanian lands.

Today, he is accused for not stopping at the old Romanian border, once the occupied territory was eliberated and for pushing the advance further inside the USSR.

It is also true that he is also accused (for good reason) for being antisemitic and for sympathizing with the far-right and fascist Iron Guard party.

But for many Romanian nationalists, he is a hero who fought for the eliberation of the country, despite his alliance with Hitler required to fight Stalin's occupying army.

Bendera is in similar position, between a rock and a hard place: he had to make an alliance with Stalin's enemies to fight for an independent Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 10, 2023, 18:02

EU countries should...

...think with our own heads and if someone wants to show muscles there is a lot of space on the other side where Alaska is.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 11, 2023, 02:19
As for the data of the killed Russian soldiers, a publication appeared today. According to the study, approx. 47,000 Russian soldiers have died.
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead (https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead)
This is the data of the Russians, there is a lie. Do not believe what the Russians write.
Biden said that 100,000 Russians were liquidated in Bakhmut alone. And Bayhmut is only 10% of the front, if not less.
Those figures that I gave are still very much underestimated, you can multiply by 1.5 or 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlXFYvqKiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlXFYvqKiw)

I don't believe anything because I have no idea what to believe.

I just wanted to express that different sources come to different numbers. How you can be sure that the figures you mentioned are correct or even significantly underestimated, as you write, I don't know either.

By the way, Dmitry Kobak is someone who has already uncovered Russia's embellished Corona statistics. According to his investigations, more than four times as many Russians died of corona than the Russian government's figures indicated.

I find it hard to believe that he would now have a scientific interest in whitewashing the numbers of deaths from the war.

If I were you, I would not believe the truth of all the pictures you publish here.

It is quite enough for the Russian trolls to cover the whole planet with countless untruths. We should not jump on this bandwagon!
What photos that I posted here cause you doubts?

I gave a link to Biden's speech. You do not trust the data of American intelligence? But for some reason you trust some Russian there.
I know that Ukraine collects statistics very carefully, because it is under the control of so many international organizations, as well as allies. In the statistics that Ukraine publishes only verified data, which far from everything falls into.
There is no opposition in Russia, I have already written this many times. Almost all Russians are for the Russian empire. And even if some kind of "good" Russian wants to do a casualty count, he will not be able to do it, because military losses in Russia are classified military information. What's more, Russians don't even count everything. They do not count how many of their prisoners died, they do not count the dead Ukrainian collaborators.
Do you know how they treat their wounded on the battlefield? The Russians don't give them any medical attention at all, and people who might have survived end up dying from minor wounds.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 11, 2023, 02:32
Is this a good time to bring up Volhynia? There was a commemoration after all last week (the massive slaughter of Polish and Jewish people by Ukrainian nationalists).

https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/polish-demand-for-recognition-of-wwii-massacres-sparks-row-with-ukraine (https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/polish-demand-for-recognition-of-wwii-massacres-sparks-row-with-ukraine)

I bring this up because it's strange that the leaders of that massacre (like Stepan Bandera), are still being seen as heroes today in Ukraine, even increasingly the last few months. They should know better by now.


No, it is not strange. The Ukrainian statehood is relatively fresh. And any nation, especially a young one, needs some heroes, any kind of heroes...

But Bandera will be soon forgotten, there will be no need for such "heroes", especially when that "hero" is despised by one of their most important allies.
After the war, there will be countless new Ukrainian heroes who defended their country against Mordor and the genocide that its orcs brought with them.

And all the tankies and vatniks of the world can weep as much as they want and they will not be able to change it. Both Ukrainians and Poles understand that they must be friends and that there is no alternative.

Ukrainian-Polish brotherhood is a fact now, Russia is being demilitarized, Ukraine will be in NATO and the EU, Finland has joined NATO, Europe doesn't need Russian gas anymore, Russia is a vassal state of China. A piece of sh** would have been a more successful Russian president than putin, and a better choice for Russia. And if putin owns Trump, what does it say about Trump?
Oh, Volhynia, Bandera, Ukrainian Insurgent Army, these are all Russian propaganda narratives. A lot of Poles died at the hands of the Russians and a lot of Poles were deported to Siberia. Do not read Russian trolls like SVH, I have it on ignore.
All these are questions of history, a lot of crimes were committed by Russians against Ukrainians and Poles in those distant times. There were many facts when the Russians dressed up in the uniform of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and committed various atrocities against the Poles, under a false flag.
If anyone is interested, you can discuss these issues of history, but only recently some KGB archives have been opened and all these historical issues are in the process of studying historians.
I read the memoirs of some soldiers of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, there was nothing massively criminal there. In those days, the Western part of Ukraine was under the occupation of Poland, so the Ukrainian Insurgent Army waged a war on three fronts - against the Russians, against the Poles and against the Nazi troops.
Yes, and read the biography of Bandera, he spent the entire second world war in a German concentration camp.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 11, 2023, 02:36
Bendera is in similar position, between a rock and a hard place: he had to make an alliance with Stalin's enemies to fight for an independent Ukraine.
The union was very short and the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists left it very quickly. But Russia, until the last day, supported the German fascists, helped them with food and trained their SS men (Schutzstaffel).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 11, 2023, 03:15
As for the data of the killed Russian soldiers, a publication appeared today. According to the study, approx. 47,000 Russian soldiers have died.
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead (https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/07/10/bring-out-your-dead)
This is the data of the Russians, there is a lie. Do not believe what the Russians write.
Biden said that 100,000 Russians were liquidated in Bakhmut alone. And Bayhmut is only 10% of the front, if not less.
Those figures that I gave are still very much underestimated, you can multiply by 1.5 or 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlXFYvqKiw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzlXFYvqKiw)

I don't believe anything because I have no idea what to believe.

I just wanted to express that different sources come to different numbers. How you can be sure that the figures you mentioned are correct or even significantly underestimated, as you write, I don't know either.

By the way, Dmitry Kobak is someone who has already uncovered Russia's embellished Corona statistics. According to his investigations, more than four times as many Russians died of corona than the Russian government's figures indicated.

I find it hard to believe that he would now have a scientific interest in whitewashing the numbers of deaths from the war.

If I were you, I would not believe the truth of all the pictures you publish here.

It is quite enough for the Russian trolls to cover the whole planet with countless untruths. We should not jump on this bandwagon!
What photos that I posted here cause you doubts?

I gave a link to Biden's speech. You do not trust the data of American intelligence? But for some reason you trust some Russian there.
I know that Ukraine collects statistics very carefully, because it is under the control of so many international organizations, as well as allies. In the statistics that Ukraine publishes only verified data, which far from everything falls into.
There is no opposition in Russia, I have already written this many times. Almost all Russians are for the Russian empire. And even if some kind of "good" Russian wants to do a casualty count, he will not be able to do it, because military losses in Russia are classified military information. What's more, Russians don't even count everything. They do not count how many of their prisoners died, they do not count the dead Ukrainian collaborators.
Do you know how they treat their wounded on the battlefield? The Russians don't give them any medical attention at all, and people who might have survived end up dying from minor wounds.

In Bachmut - at least that's how I understand the statement - the Russians have 100,000 dead + wounded according to White House information.
When you write "liquidated," I understand it to mean "killed."

The leaked reports of the DIA from 01 March 2023, which the Pentagon confirmed, say:

Pentagon report: how many Ukrainian soldiers have died in the war in Ukraine?
• Ukrainian soldiers killed: 15,500 to 17,500
• Wounded: 109,000 to 113,500
• Total: 124,500 to 131,000

Pentagon report: how many Russian soldiers have died in the war in Ukraine?
• Russian soldiers killed: 35,500 to 43,000
• Wounded: 154,000 to 180,000
• Total: 189,500 to 223,000

It is also possible that I (and you, I suppose) misinterpreted the statement in the graph you posted. I had interpreted "personnel losses" as "dead". Obviously, dead + wounded are meant. Then the numbers in your graphic would fit.

And, to say it again clearly: No, I do not trust the Russian numbers and sources!

As for the pictures, I just wanted to say that Photoshop, as we all know, makes everything possible today. The pictures can be manipulated. They can also be true. I just don't know. I have largely lost my faith in the authenticity of images. And artificial intelligence will contribute to the fact that in the future we will not be allowed to believe a single image. Which I personally find very frightening.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 11, 2023, 03:27
Quite interesting!

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-10-2023 (https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-10-2023)

Ukraine has liberated nearly as much terrain since it began its counteroffensive five weeks ago as Russia had conquered in more than six months, according to U.S. military experts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 11, 2023, 05:27
"War casualties include... military personnel... who are killed, wounded, imprisoned, or missing as a result of warfare."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:War_casualties

I beleive "losses" would imply this definition. They are lost to the war effort, either by injury, capture, desertion or death.

"The term "casualties" is frequently misconstrued and misused due to conflation with the term "fatalities" (deaths). "
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 11, 2023, 10:57
The western world is risking a lot in grabbing this country. And the EU is just dumb. This is one of the most corrupt countries in the world.

It is ****ing hilarious, and pathetic at the same time, when vatniks, tankies, and other types of Russian shills are complaining about the corruption in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 11, 2023, 11:31

He is yet another useful idiot, craving for attention and as wrong as putin (or medvedev), whose words he is parroting.


A useful idiot typically has achieved some kind of position in their native country, and hence their "usefulness" (for example: Chomsky, Orban, Schröder, Waters).

The correct taxonomy for random specimens found in Internet forums is usually one of these: vatnik (the ones from the countries of the former Soviet Union), tankie (from the West) or some third-world boy whose life motto is "Russia stronk". These are the most common species.

They haven't reached the status of a useful idiot, because, on their own, their "usefulness" is very limited. A classic useful idiot is publicly recognizable.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 11, 2023, 12:27

He is yet another useful idiot, craving for attention and as wrong as putin (or medvedev), whose words he is parroting.


A useful idiot typically has achieved some kind of position in their native country, and hence their "usefulness" (for example: Chomsky, Orban, Schröder, Waters).

The correct taxonomy for random specimens found in Internet forums is usually one of these: vatnik (the ones from the countries of the former Soviet Union), tankie (from the West) or some third-world boy whose life motto is "Russia stronk". These are the most common species.

They haven't reached the status of a useful idiot, because, on their own, their "usefulness" is very limited. A classic useful idiot is publicly recognizable.

Nice definitions. I was about to ask you to clarify the terms you used.

But the useful idiot I am talking about is a presidential candidate.
He is invited to news shows, he has town halls, many social media followers, etc, thus he is in a position to influence some poor souls.

Like him, others like Roger Waters, John Mearsheimer, Tucker Carlson... and let's not forget the biggest idiot of all donald j. trump, are doing nothing else by parroting putin's words, while believing that they reached a superior level of understanding (some are even ready to obliterate you on IQ battles 😉)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 11, 2023, 12:49
Tonight there is a documentary on ARTE TV. "Putin's Shadow War“. Probably this is uninteresting for English-speakers, because it will not be understandable in terms of content.

I will watch it in any case.

It's about, among other things, a Russian "trawler and research vessel fleet" searching the Norwegian seabed for data cables and sabotage targets.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 11, 2023, 13:08
It is also possible that I (and you, I suppose) misinterpreted the statement in the graph you posted. I had interpreted "personnel losses" as "dead". Obviously, dead + wounded are meant. Then the numbers in your graphic would fit.
In the case of the Russians, it doesn't matter.  ;D ;D ;D
Wounded Russians become killed very quickly because they are not given medical assistance. Also, all these Russian losses are calculated by the method of least numbers. In fact, more Russian soldiers were eliminated.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the term liquidated in their reports.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 11, 2023, 13:20
Tonight there is a documentary on ARTE TV. "Putin's Shadow War“. Probably this is uninteresting for English-speakers, because it will not be understandable in terms of content.

I will watch it in any case.

It's about, among other things, a Russian "trawler and research vessel fleet" searching the Norwegian seabed for data cables and sabotage targets.

Interesting documentary Wilm, I recently saw in the Arte Mediathek. The film leaves one with the frightening question of the extent to which Russia has already prepared the destruction of the European infrastructure, which seems very vulnerable.

Here is tje link, unfortunately only in german:

https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/115177-000-A/putins-schattenkrieg-russische-spionage-in-der-ostsee (https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/115177-000-A/putins-schattenkrieg-russische-spionage-in-der-ostsee)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 11, 2023, 13:24
Tonight there is a documentary on ARTE TV. "Putin's Shadow War“. Probably this is uninteresting for English-speakers, because it will not be understandable in terms of content.

I will watch it in any case.

It's about, among other things, a Russian "trawler and research vessel fleet" searching the Norwegian seabed for data cables and sabotage targets.
After viewing, state here in the topic briefly, plz.

As far as I know, any Russian pipelines at the bottom of the seas are also used for military purposes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 11, 2023, 13:41
It is also possible that I (and you, I suppose) misinterpreted the statement in the graph you posted. I had interpreted "personnel losses" as "dead". Obviously, dead + wounded are meant. Then the numbers in your graphic would fit.
In the case of the Russians, it doesn't matter.  ;D ;D ;D
Wounded Russians become killed very quickly because they are not given medical assistance. Also, all these Russian losses are calculated by the method of least numbers. In fact, more Russian soldiers were eliminated.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the term liquidated in their reports.

Let's be clear at this point.

I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

Leave your computer keyboard and come to the real world.

This is not a * video game here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 11, 2023, 13:48
Tonight there is a documentary on ARTE TV. "Putin's Shadow War“. Probably this is uninteresting for English-speakers, because it will not be understandable in terms of content.

I will watch it in any case.

It's about, among other things, a Russian "trawler and research vessel fleet" searching the Norwegian seabed for data cables and sabotage targets.

I found some spoilers for you, Wilm 😉

https://www.euronews.com/2023/04/19/ghost-ships-and-espionage-russias-huge-surveillance-efforts-laid-bare-in-new-nordic-docume (https://www.euronews.com/2023/04/19/ghost-ships-and-espionage-russias-huge-surveillance-efforts-laid-bare-in-new-nordic-docume)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 11, 2023, 14:05
It is also possible that I (and you, I suppose) misinterpreted the statement in the graph you posted. I had interpreted "personnel losses" as "dead". Obviously, dead + wounded are meant. Then the numbers in your graphic would fit.
In the case of the Russians, it doesn't matter.  ;D ;D ;D
Wounded Russians become killed very quickly because they are not given medical assistance. Also, all these Russian losses are calculated by the method of least numbers. In fact, more Russian soldiers were eliminated.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the term liquidated in their reports.

Let's be clear at this point.

I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

Leave your computer keyboard and come to the real world.

This is not a * video game here.

No winners will emerge from this war - only losers!

And Putin does not care. He likes to show himself as a strong man with a naked upper body. But he doesn't have to fight.

I wonder if a single son of an oligarch has to go to war. And I bet that the children of the oligarchs will be spared and will continue to be properly fed with money from the Russian leadership. Just as it has always been.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 11, 2023, 14:25
It is also possible that I (and you, I suppose) misinterpreted the statement in the graph you posted. I had interpreted "personnel losses" as "dead". Obviously, dead + wounded are meant. Then the numbers in your graphic would fit.
In the case of the Russians, it doesn't matter.  ;D ;D ;D
Wounded Russians become killed very quickly because they are not given medical assistance. Also, all these Russian losses are calculated by the method of least numbers. In fact, more Russian soldiers were eliminated.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the term liquidated in their reports.

Let's be clear at this point.

I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

Leave your computer keyboard and come to the real world.

This is not a * video game here.

No winners will emerge from this war - only losers!

And Putin does not care. He likes to show himself as a strong man with a naked upper body. But he doesn't have to fight.

I wonder if a single son of an oligarch has to go to war. And I bet that the children of the oligarchs will be spared and will continue to be properly fed with money from the Russian leadership. Just as it has always been.

Wilm that's right.
Actually, I wanted to stay out of the discussion here. What I myself wish Putin and others, I save myself here. 

But if someone with 3 smileys is happy about the fact that people die in the trenches without help - then I actually lack the words.
On the other hand, I would have words for this stoker-computer-nerd, but then I would fly out of the forum.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 11, 2023, 14:32
I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

This is a tricky one. I do not celebrate the deaths of individual Russian soldiers and the family tragedies behind those deaths. I don't want to become a monster myself. But at the same time, it is obvious that each dead Russian soldier means that he won't be able to kill innocent Ukrainians and it also makes it less likely that Russia will try to invade another country in the near future. It is oddly satisfying to see Russian military bases or tanks being blown up, because it makes Europe a little safer in the future. I just don't celebrate the human tragedy behind it. I celebrate it as a strategic/tactical success, if that makes sense.

It is safe to assume that most of Russians support Putin / Prigozhin, and then you also have other imperialist scumbags like Navalny and his followers. The percentage of decent Russians is very small. I know such ones from YouTube and other places. I try to support them by giving likes to their content, to counterbalance my extremely negative feelings towards Russia as a whole.

This Russian guy celebrates Russian losses too:

https://www.youtube.com/@TheRussianDude (https://www.youtube.com/@TheRussianDude)

This anti-Putin Russian guy applied for asylum in the very "russophobic" country of Poland. Quite brave. He learns Polish and makes shocking video comparisons of everyday life quality in Russia and Poland. You can turn on automatic translated subtitles to understand him. His Russian family has "cancelled" him for what he is doing. He knows that Russia is a s#ithole, but he wants Russians to see the light and change. So, I think it is good to promote such people:

https://www.youtube.com/@ViacheslavZarutskii (https://www.youtube.com/@ViacheslavZarutskii)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 11, 2023, 15:00
I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

This is a tricky one. I do not celebrate the deaths of individual Russian soldiers and the family tragedies behind those deaths. I don't want to become a monster myself. But at the same time, it is obvious that each dead Russian soldier means that he won't be able to kill innocent Ukrainians and it also makes it less likely that Russia will try to invade another country in the near future. It is oddly satisfying to see Russian military bases or tanks being blown up, because it makes Europe a little safer in the future. I just don't celebrate the human tragedy behind it. I celebrate it as a strategic/tactical success, if that makes sense.

It is safe to assume that most of Russians support Putin / Prigozhin, and then you also have other imperialist scumbags like Navalny and his followers. The percentage of decent Russians is very small. I know such ones from YouTube and other places. I try to support them by giving likes to their content, to counterbalance my extremely negative feelings towards Russia as a whole.

This Russian guy celebrates Russian losses too:

https://www.youtube.com/@TheRussianDude (https://www.youtube.com/@TheRussianDude)

This anti-Putin Russian guy applied for asylum in the very "russophobic" country of Poland. Quite brave. He learns Polish and makes shocking video comparisons of everyday life quality in Russia and Poland. You can turn on automatic translated subtitles to understand him. His Russian family has "cancelled" him for what he is doing. He knows that Russia is a s#ithole, but he wants Russians to see the light and change. So, I think it is good to promote such people:

https://www.youtube.com/@ViacheslavZarutskii (https://www.youtube.com/@ViacheslavZarutskii)

Thank you for this and your other nuanced well thought out posts.

It's not really that tricky.

If Ukraine is to win, many Russian soldiers will have to die. That is then also quite soberly considered in my sense. That is the purely factual level.

But if someone here celebrates the death of people and ridicules the death of soldiers in the trenches with smileys - then this person, to stay with your words, has become an inhuman monster himself.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 11, 2023, 15:35
It is also possible that I (and you, I suppose) misinterpreted the statement in the graph you posted. I had interpreted "personnel losses" as "dead". Obviously, dead + wounded are meant. Then the numbers in your graphic would fit.
In the case of the Russians, it doesn't matter.  ;D ;D ;D
Wounded Russians become killed very quickly because they are not given medical assistance. Also, all these Russian losses are calculated by the method of least numbers. In fact, more Russian soldiers were eliminated.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the term liquidated in their reports.

Let's be clear at this point.

I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

Leave your computer keyboard and come to the real world.

This is not a * video game here.

No winners will emerge from this war - only losers!

And Putin does not care. He likes to show himself as a strong man with a naked upper body. But he doesn't have to fight.

I wonder if a single son of an oligarch has to go to war. And I bet that the children of the oligarchs will be spared and will continue to be properly fed with money from the Russian leadership. Just as it has always been.

Wilm that's right.
Actually, I wanted to stay out of the discussion here. What I myself wish Putin and others, I save myself here. 

But if someone with 3 smileys is happy about the fact that people die in the trenches without help - then I actually lack the words.
On the other hand, I would have words for this stoker-computer-nerd, but then I would fly out of the forum.

Yes, I know you good enough to follow your thoughts! I feel it the same way.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 11, 2023, 17:56
The wars should look like leaders and their children leading the way in the front lines. Then the politicians, the journalist and military experts,  and then the rest of the people.

That would stop them in a second.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 11, 2023, 18:04
The wars should look like leaders and their children leading the way in the front lines. Then the politicians, the journalist and military experts,  and then the rest of the people.

That would stop them in a second.

Of course. Tell that to the alexithymic putin, the one hiding in a bunker, while sending his men to die for his quixotic dreams of grandor.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 11, 2023, 19:46
The wars should look like leaders and their children leading the way in the front lines. Then the politicians, the journalist and military experts,  and then the rest of the people.

That would stop them in a second.

Of course. Tell that to the alexithymic putin, the one hiding in a bunker, while sending his men to die for his quixotic dreams of grandor.

And Putin, and Obama, and Bush and Clinton and all the others impotent psychopaths  ;)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 11, 2023, 19:49
The wars should look like leaders and their children leading the way in the front lines. Then the politicians, the journalist and military experts,  and then the rest of the people.

That would stop them in a second.

Of course. Tell that to the alexithymic putin, the one hiding in a bunker, while sending his men to die for his quixotic dreams of grandor.

And Putin, and Obama, and Bush and Clinton and all the others impotent psychopaths  ;)

If you say so.
But for now, putin is the one you should focus on. He is the clear and present danger.
The others are history, like Alexander the Great & Co.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 03:03
The death of an enemy is a celebration. That's why I'm glad. The more enemies and terrorists die, the more celebration. Russians are orcs and zombies, people are hard to find there. Russian soldiers are terrorists, they are not civilians. A Russian soldier illegally crossed the border of Ukraine to kill women and children, which is what they all do. Anyone who supports them becomes the same enemy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 03:06
Tonight there is a documentary on ARTE TV. "Putin's Shadow War“. Probably this is uninteresting for English-speakers, because it will not be understandable in terms of content.

I will watch it in any case.

It's about, among other things, a Russian "trawler and research vessel fleet" searching the Norwegian seabed for data cables and sabotage targets.

I found some spoilers for you, Wilm 😉

https://www.euronews.com/2023/04/19/ghost-ships-and-espionage-russias-huge-surveillance-efforts-laid-bare-in-new-nordic-docume (https://www.euronews.com/2023/04/19/ghost-ships-and-espionage-russias-huge-surveillance-efforts-laid-bare-in-new-nordic-docume)
Russia should be immediately sent to a landfill. We need an iron wall between this terrorist country and the civilized world. Not a single Russian vessel, not a single citizen of russia should be on the territory of free Europe, and not only Europe. Drive the Russians out of the EU, otherwise Putin will send troops into your countries to protect these Russians. It was with this narrative that he attacked Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 03:18
It is also possible that I (and you, I suppose) misinterpreted the statement in the graph you posted. I had interpreted "personnel losses" as "dead". Obviously, dead + wounded are meant. Then the numbers in your graphic would fit.
In the case of the Russians, it doesn't matter.  ;D ;D ;D
Wounded Russians become killed very quickly because they are not given medical assistance. Also, all these Russian losses are calculated by the method of least numbers. In fact, more Russian soldiers were eliminated.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the term liquidated in their reports.

Let's be clear at this point.

I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

Leave your computer keyboard and come to the real world.

This is not a * video game here.
Most Russians fight voluntarily and for money. They are all orcs and zombies, all rashists. There are no people there. So, if these orcs come to your house and kill your family, I would like to see how you will feel sorry for these killers later.
All these Russians have a choice, Ukraine offers them to surrender and gives them all security guarantees in accordance with the Geneva conventions. I posted a video of the assault on the Armed Forces of Ukraine in this thread, Ukrainian soldiers always offer the Russians to surrender. But, the Russians do not give up and continue to commit crimes against humanity. There are many ways for Russians to surrender, they are all handled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. But, very few Russians surrender, especially voluntarily.
People always have a choice and Russians too. If a Russian refuses to go to kill people in Ukraine, he is unlikely to even go to jail in Russia. And even if they put them in jail, what is prison compared to the crimes they commit every day.
You Germans really like Russians, it's noticeable.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 12, 2023, 05:16
Drive the Russians out of the EU, otherwise Putin will send troops into your countries to protect these Russians. It was with this narrative that he attacked Ukraine.

Send in the settlers, claim their minority rights are being infringed, move in to "protect" them, bring in more settlers...then hold a fake vote claiming the people "voluntarily" joined the russian empire.

...now...where else have I heard that narrative before...settlers being used to push ethnic cleansing and drive the local population out...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 06:56
Drive the Russians out of the EU, otherwise Putin will send troops into your countries to protect these Russians. It was with this narrative that he attacked Ukraine.

Send in the settlers, claim their minority rights are being infringed, move in to "protect" them, bring in more settlers...then hold a fake vote claiming the people "voluntarily" joined the russian empire.

...now...where else have I heard that narrative before...settlers being used to push ethnic cleansing and drive the local population out...

Maybe you heard with in Albanians in Serbia case.

And then comes NATO, blatantly attacks Serbia , redraws the borders and recognize Kosovo as an independent country in same exact scenario you just described.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 12, 2023, 07:00
I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

This is a tricky one. I do not celebrate the deaths of individual Russian soldiers and the family tragedies behind those deaths. I don't want to become a monster myself. But at the same time, it is obvious that each dead Russian soldier means that he won't be able to kill innocent Ukrainians and it also makes it less likely that Russia will try to invade another country in the near future. It is oddly satisfying to see Russian military bases or tanks being blown up, because it makes Europe a little safer in the future. I just don't celebrate the human tragedy behind it. I celebrate it as a strategic/tactical success, if that makes sense.

It is safe to assume that most of Russians support Putin / Prigozhin, and then you also have other imperialist scumbags like Navalny and his followers. The percentage of decent Russians is very small. I know such ones from YouTube and other places. I try to support them by giving likes to their content, to counterbalance my extremely negative feelings towards Russia as a whole.

This Russian guy celebrates Russian losses too:

https://www.youtube.com/@TheRussianDude (https://www.youtube.com/@TheRussianDude)

This anti-Putin Russian guy applied for asylum in the very "russophobic" country of Poland. Quite brave. He learns Polish and makes shocking video comparisons of everyday life quality in Russia and Poland. You can turn on automatic translated subtitles to understand him. His Russian family has "cancelled" him for what he is doing. He knows that Russia is a s#ithole, but he wants Russians to see the light and change. So, I think it is good to promote such people:

https://www.youtube.com/@ViacheslavZarutskii (https://www.youtube.com/@ViacheslavZarutskii)

From Kasparov's speech at the NATO Public Forum. A Russian who wishes russia's deafeat.
Smart words of a smart man.

The liberation of Russia from Putin’s fascism will not start until the Ukrainian flag is raised over Sevastopol. Period. Anything else is wishful thinking. You have to kill the idea of empire in the minds of Russians. They have to understand the war is lost.
…Ukraine must win. Ukrainian victory includes three things: liberation, reparation, and justice.
…The big debate is whether it’s Russia’s war or Putin’s war. Unfortunately, it’s Russia’s war. We [in the Russian diaspora] have many voices that are trying to undermine the suffering of Ukrainians. We saw the debate about the shark, ya know, and attacks on the Estonian Prime Minister and others. It’s despicable. Every Russian, myself included, has a responsibility for the crimes committed in Ukraine. …We have no moral right to criticise Ukrainians whatever they do.
People will have this view of Russians as criminals and unfortunately the majority of Russian political opposition, including many groups generously funded by the EU or Americans, they just don’t see it. People who want to leave from Putin’s ‘North Korea’ to our, let’s say, virtual ‘South Korea’ have to say three things in five seconds without stuttering:
The war is criminal.
The regime is illegitimate.
Crimea is Ukraine.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 12, 2023, 07:27
Maybe you heard with in Albanians in Serbia case.

And then comes NATO, blatantly attacks Serbia , redraws the borders and recognize Kosovo as an independent country in same exact scenario you just described.

For crying out loud, stop lying, stop drawing false analogies and stop parroting Russian lies!!!

And I am not a big fan of Kosovo's statehood myself.

(https://i.imgur.com/SVFDo4h.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/fWq8Tp3.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 07:49
Maybe you heard with in Albanians in Serbia case.

And then comes NATO, blatantly attacks Serbia , redraws the borders and recognize Kosovo as an independent country in same exact scenario you just described.

For crying out loud, stop lying, stop drawing false analogies and stop parroting Russian lies!!!

And I am not a big fan of Kosovo's statehood myself.



That has nothing to do with russia and spare me of those childish stupidities if you cant speak with arguments, and you can not cause its exactly what is still happening.

And you just accused 80+% of the world population that wont recognise Kosovo including NATO members for spreading russian lies:

(https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/local/cache-gd2/7a/5805ce87172525cce80716a2418638.jpg?1604948367)



 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 07:50
Drive the Russians out of the EU, otherwise Putin will send troops into your countries to protect these Russians. It was with this narrative that he attacked Ukraine.

Send in the settlers, claim their minority rights are being infringed, move in to "protect" them, bring in more settlers...then hold a fake vote claiming the people "voluntarily" joined the russian empire.

...now...where else have I heard that narrative before...settlers being used to push ethnic cleansing and drive the local population out...
+100
It was according to this scenario that the Russians occupied the Crimea, Donbass, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 07:51
Maybe you heard with in Albanians in Serbia case.

And then comes NATO, blatantly attacks Serbia , redraws the borders and recognize Kosovo as an independent country in same exact scenario you just described.

For crying out loud, stop lying, stop drawing false analogies and stop parroting Russian lies!!!

And I am not a big fan of Kosovo's statehood myself.



That has nothing to do with russia and spare me of those childish stupidities if you cant speak with arguments, and you can not cause its exactly what is still happening.

And you just accused 80+% of the world populatio that wont recognise Kosovo including NATO members for spreading russian lies:
You write nonsense. What 80%? This topic has already discussed Kosovo and the history of Kosovo. Flip through the pages of the topic and read what has already been written. Why discuss it again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 12, 2023, 07:54
And you just accused 80+% of the world population that wont recognise Kosovo including NATO members for spreading russian lies:

You seem to have a big problem with reading with understanding and drawing analogies.

And now, check how many countries recognize Crimea and Donbas as part of Russia. Spoiler alert: only a couple of clown states. You have just scored an own goal.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 07:55
From Kasparov's speech at the NATO Public Forum. A Russian who wishes russia's deafeat.
Smart words of a smart man.
I will only clarify that Kasparov is not Russian by nationality. He is Armenian and Jewish.

have to say three things in five seconds without stuttering:
The war is criminal.
The regime is illegitimate.
Crimea is Ukraine.
[/i]
These are the questions you need to ask all Russians who claim not to be called murderers and rashists.

1. Whose Crimea?
2. Should the Russian Empire continue to exist within today's borders? Or do oppressed peoples have the right to secede and create their own nation-states?
3. Should all war criminals who kill Ukrainians or help them be punished?
4. Should Russia withdraw its troops from Ukraine, Crimea, Donbass?
5. Should Russia pay reparations to Ukraine and Ukrainians for those killed, for destroyed cities, destroyed ecology and other losses?


Here on the forum not a single Russian has answered these questions yet, so for information.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 07:58
And you just accused 80+% of the world population that wont recognise Kosovo including NATO members for spreading russian lies:

You seem to have a big problem with reading with understanding and drawing analogies.

And now, check how many countries recognize Crimea and Donbas as part of Russia. Spoiler alert: only a couple of clown states.

You have a problem with lacking knowledge, ignorance and hypocrisy and tidy bit of brainwashing. 

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 08:10

These are the questions you need to ask all Russians who claim not to be called murderers and rashists.

1. Whose Crimea?
2. Should the Russian Empire continue to exist within today's borders? Or do oppressed peoples have the right to secede and create their own nation-states?
3. Should all war criminals who kill Ukrainians or help them be punished?
4. Should Russia withdraw its troops from Ukraine, Crimea, Donbass?
5. Should Russia pay reparations to Ukraine and Ukrainians for those killed, for destroyed cities, destroyed ecology and other losses?


Here on the forum not a single Russian has answered these questions yet, so for information.

May I even though im not russian but I dislike all aggressors... they should


But Im also interested about US people who claim not to be called murderers and rashists

Should the occupied land be return to natives as its lawful owners , and should they be payed for biggest genocide in the history of mankind done by European settlers which killed more people than Europe had population at the time which still hold their land under occupation ?


Same question for Australians? 

Let the whataboutism start... ;)


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 12, 2023, 08:41
From Kasparov's speech at the NATO Public Forum. A Russian who wishes russia's deafeat.
Smart words of a smart man.
I will only clarify that Kasparov is not Russian by nationality. He is Armenian and Jewish.

The ethnicity is irrelevant
He was russian by nationality and citizenship.

By his own words:
"Although I'm half-Armenian, half-Jewish, I consider myself Russian because Russian is my native tongue, and I grew up with Russian culture."
He was also a presidential candidate in russia and he considers russia his homeland, although he now got the Croatian citizenship to escape from putin's persecution.

Remember that Stalin was a Georgian ethnic. Remember that there are many russian citizens or russian nationals of non-russian ethnicity fighting for putin in Ukraine.

The ethnicity is irrelevant. It's not a matter of genes, it's a matter of culture.
Remember that Zelensky himself is Jewish.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 12, 2023, 09:07
Let the whataboutism start... ;)

Yes.... #whatabout Croatians? They migrated from northwestern Iran and occupied Illyrian and Istro-Romanian lands.
It must be hard to look in the mirror, you aggressor!  ;)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Distribution_of_Croatian_ethnonym_in_the_Middle_Ages.jpg)

Or rather than going back to stone age, see who must be stopped from being an aggressor TODAY, July 12th, 2023.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 12, 2023, 10:13
I wasn't thinking of an area in Europe. I am Christian Palestinian and you can watch the"settlers" stealing our homes and our land every day live on tv.

It is a slower process, they keep pushing us out slowly over years, but the result is the same. People from New York "settling in their homeland" kicking out the native population and claiming 14 million don't even exist...

But let us focus on Ukraine. They deserve to be free and should get into NATO quickly. They are paying the blood price. They are defending all of free Europe with their bravery.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 11:00
Fist of all Croats and Illyrians on whos territory they came in 7 century lived as friends and allies and the only trace of illiryians blood left today is among Croats and other south slavic nations so the land was not and could not be stolen in this case. Almost ll Croatian last names ending with r,s,n,  come from Illyrians, rightful owners of the land.

Secondly Croats didnt came from Iran , that's something that just someone who doesn't have a basic clue about history can write, we speak 100% Slavic and understand almost every root of every other Slavic language, we worshiped Slavic gods and our old home is behind Carpathian Mountains.


Genetically, on the Y chromosome line, a majority (75%) of male Croats from Croatia belong to haplogroups I (38%-43%), R1a (22%-25%) and R1b (8%-9%), while a minority (25%) mostly belong to haplogroup E (10%), and others to haplogroups J (7%-10%), G (2%-4%), H (0.3-1.8%), and N (<1%).[115][116] The distribution, variance and frequency of the I2 and R1a subclades (>60%) among Croats are related to the medieval Slavic expansion, probably from the territory of present day Ukraine and Southeastern Poland.

Even the 2 of last 3 most powerful politician in Croatia right now had Illyrian last names.

How many native American presidents has US had if I may ask on the other hand ? 


For more historical facts follow my posts  ;D


Now feel free to continue with your whataboutism  ;D







Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 11:09
I wasn't thinking of an area in Europe. I am Christian Palestinian and you can watch the"settlers" stealing our homes and our land every day live on tv.

It is a slower process, they keep pushing us out slowly over years, but the result is the same. People from New York "settling in their homeland" kicking out the native population and claiming 14 million don't even exist...

But let us focus on Ukraine. They deserve to be free and should get into NATO quickly. They are paying the blood price. They are defending all of free Europe with their bravery.

Why would we focus only on Ukraine ?  There is whole world out there. They should be free and they should do what they are pleased but the situation is that they were in unpleasant surrounding and they played the wrong cards and listened to wrong advice's and that is huge lesson to all of Europe. We should not stand between US and Russian predators.

Ukraine can be right in 100% and how did that help them ? Russia is not gonna let go, NATO just proved is not going to do crap cause they don't want a new stone age, Russia has the strongest card possible in their nuclear weapons and can not be controlled nor isolated like North Korea.

Even if Putin gets thrown out russia is not backing up, the peace table is going to be the only solution and whats happening now is catching the best starting points.   
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 12, 2023, 11:38
Exactly right. Even if you disregard the theory claiming that Croats originate from Sarmatians, arriving in Europe from northwestern Iran, if you embrace the pan-slavic theory, croats still migrated from northeast and occupied lands in the Balkans.

I like your idyllic view on how this happend.
In your mind, the Illyrian and Thracian tribes embraced the invadors and willingly shared or even gave them their lands. Riiiight!  ::)

Croats coexisted "peacefully" with other ethnicities to the extent that today, the illyrian language is extinct and there are only a few istro-romanian villages left, with maybe 500 native istro-romanian speakers. Ethnic-cleansing, you were saying?

The point you are missing is that throughout history, virtually all peoples have a history of aggression, invasion and grabbing lands from others. This is including croats and other slavs (serbs, russian and ukrainians inclusive), british, french, americans, germans, romanians, turks, arabs, israeli, etc.
So before pointing fingers at others, look in the mirror, and have the courage to learn your history from other sources than the ones vouched by your national mythology  ;)

And stop normalizing TODAY's aggressions, through your never ending use of #whataboutism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 12:04
Exactly right. Even if you disregard the theory claiming that Croats originate from Sarmatians, arriving in Europe from northwestern Iran, if you embrace the pan-slavic theory, croats still migrated from northeast and occupied lands in the Balkans.

I like your idyllic view on how this happend.
In your mind, the illyrian and istro-romanian tribes embraced the invadors and willingly shared or even gave them their lands. Riiiight!  ::)



For each Illyrian vs Croat battle Ill give you 10 they fought together. Lets start  ;D

Illyrians even encouraged other Slavic tribes to move to help them preserve the land being invaded from the west and from the south by Greeks.


Feel free to learn more about history by following my posts and leave your #whataboutism behind.


Now , back to the topic which American president had native american origins ? I need one ?

Should natives be compensated and their land returned by European colonialist invaders ?

Why should Europeans or UN members trust US about anything when they show ignorance during their single sided decisions to invade independent countries under faked evedinces of mass destruction weapons which showed to be blatant lie and an invasion excuse for their economic and world domination purposes?

Europe shouldn't trust nor Russia nor US and choose its own path. They can show muscles on Alaska not over our backs with their internet troll warriors which can go and volunteer in Ukraine any moment but... trolling is much more fun and Europeans should risk their lives and their countries.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 12, 2023, 12:32
Aaah... so now we are not discussing principles anymore, but nuances and levels! This is great!
Glad to see that you accept that the Croats had their fair share of aggression, land grabbing and ethnic cleansing history.
Glad to see that you begin to see yourself in the mirror, even if the image you see is rather fuzzy and distorted. This is progress, nonetheless.
👏
Next step is to stop pointing fingers at others, stop with your relentless #whataboutism, and to focus on who is the evil, the aggressor who must be stopped TODAY, July 12th, 2023.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on July 12, 2023, 13:16
I wasn't thinking of an area in Europe. I am Christian Palestinian and you can watch the"settlers" stealing our homes and our land every day live on tv.

It is a slower process, they keep pushing us out slowly over years, but the result is the same. People from New York "settling in their homeland" kicking out the native population and claiming 14 million don't even exist...

But let us focus on Ukraine. They deserve to be free and should get into NATO quickly. They are paying the blood price. They are defending all of free Europe with their bravery.

Why would we focus only on Ukraine ?  There is whole world out there. They should be free and they should do what they are pleased but the situation is that they were in unpleasant surrounding and they played the wrong cards and listened to wrong advice's and that is huge lesson to all of Europe. We should not stand between US and Russian predators.

Ukraine can be right in 100% and how did that help them ? Russia is not gonna let go, NATO just proved is not going to do crap cause they don't want a new stone age, Russia has the strongest card possible in their nuclear weapons and can not be controlled nor isolated like North Korea.

Even if Putin gets thrown out russia is not backing up, the peace table is going to be the only solution and whats happening now is catching the best starting points.

Why do NATO-countries react on a Russian invasion of Ukraine (not a NATO member by the way) and not so much on other or earlier conflicts in countries that suffer from dictators and humanitarian abuse? Valid question, and the answer is to be found rather in geopolitical strategies than in morally policing the world and acting on human rights abuses.

Just my 2 cents here, but NATO has no real interest in defeating Russia and liberating Ukraine. The problem is: Russia became a growing threat to western-world stability, and they just went way too far with a brutal and full-scale invasion of a country on the European continent bordering NATO. So what NATO does is balancing the conflict with just enough support to Ukraine so Russia can't get what they want, fight them off, but with just not enough support to inflict a humiliating defeat for Russia which can trigger even worse. If NATO really wanted, Russia's army is flees back to Moscow within days or a few weeks. Boots on the ground, birds in the sky, and game over. But that would mean full scale war with state that has trigger-happy-batshit-crazy leadership and nuclear weapons. It would really hurt NATO members too, and it would only benefit the dark horse here: China.

By the way: NATO already won. They just expanded with Finland and Sweden, and weakened Russia severely. And I guess their next strategy is just letting the conflict bleed out. Russia gets something that the west considers as a defeat for Russia and Russia itself can sell as a victory to their population. Ukraine gets a free entrance ticket to the west and NATO. Meanwhile, a message was sent to third party China: keep quiet and keep your shop open for business.

Ukraine happens to be the theatre for horrible muscle-rolling, with innocent and everyday people brutally suffering from it.
I can only hope it will end soon, and people can start building new lives in peace.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 13:22
Aaah... so now we are not discussing principles anymore, but nuances and levels! This is great!
Glad to see that you accept that the Croats had their fair share of aggression, land grabbing and ethnic cleansing history.
Glad to see that you begin to see yourself in the mirror, even if the image you see is rather fuzzy and distorted. This is progress, nonetheless.
👏
Next step is to stop pointing fingers at others, stop with your relentless #whataboutism, and to focus on who is the evil, the aggressor who must be stopped TODAY, July 12th, 2023.

To come as an ally and to come and commit largest genocide in history killing 50 Millions people and stealing their land is now a same thing.

Im waiting....which battles Croat had with Illyrians and how many of them Croats killed ? 

And once again, why are you not volunteering in Ukraine ? I mean the ones calling Europeans to start wars should at least show the example or ?

You prefer spreading fires by typing from your soft embody chair ?   ;D

Same as NATO, pulls Ukraine into a war and then gives them weapons to weaken the enemy not carring about their lifes at all and giving them finger on accepting them in union. So why are they not in, lets go fight russians all together.

But they think twice when their buts are on stake, same as you as an individual.  Cmon , go and fight , volunteer a bit.  Slava Ukraini from your chrome is not helping  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 13:27


Why do NATO-countries react on a Russian invasion of Ukraine (not a NATO member by the way) and not so much on other or earlier conflicts in countries that suffer from dictators and humanitarian abuse? Valid question, and the answer is to be found rather in geopolitical strategies than in morally policing the world and acting on human rights abuses.

Just my 2 cents here, but NATO has no real interest in defeating Russia and liberating Ukraine. The problem is: Russia became a growing threat to western-world stability, and they just went way too far with a brutal and full-scale invasion of a country on the European continent bordering NATO. So what NATO does is balancing the conflict with just enough support to Ukraine so Russia can't get what they want, fight them off, but with just not enough support to inflict a humiliating defeat for Russia which can trigger even worse. If NATO really wanted, Russia's army is flees back to Moscow within days or a few weeks. Boots on the ground, birds in the sky, and game over. But that would mean full scale war with state that has trigger-happy-batshit-crazy leadership and nuclear weapons. It would really hurt NATO members too, and it would only benefit the dark horse here: China.

By the way: NATO already won. They just expanded with Finland and Sweden, and weakened Russia severely. And I guess their next strategy is just letting the conflict bleed out. Russia gets something that the west considers as a defeat for Russia and Russia itself can sell as a victory to their population. Ukraine gets a free entrance ticket to the west and NATO. Meanwhile, a message was sent to third party China: keep quiet and keep your shop open for business.

Ukraine happens to be the theatre for horrible muscle-rolling, with innocent and everyday people brutally suffering from it.
I can only hope it will end soon, and people can start building new lives in peace.


It would pretty much mean the end of the world, Russia would not fight a war they can not win and the moron is not a bluffer, he would die anyway so he may as swell press the button. And they know it.

Ukraine was pulled in a game they shouldn't have played. And whatever the outcome is they will loose big big time. And latest NATO statements clearly show that they give a crap but until a point and whithout crossing that point Ukraine is in pretty pretty pretty bad position
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 13:44
Some authors exaggerate russia's ability to use nuclear weapons effectively. russia does not have missiles capable of overcoming the air defense of NATO countries. The United States can destroy the nuclear perimeter of russia in exactly 2 hours. If desired, NATO can turn all of Russia into nuclear ashes Naturally, from a purely environmental point of view, this will not be done, but destroying Russian nuclear weapons is not a problem for NATO. Allegedly, the "second army of the world" is retreating under pressure from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, there is no need to scare anyone here with the Russian red button, nuclear suitcase, etc.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 13:50
From Kasparov's speech at the NATO Public Forum. A Russian who wishes russia's deafeat.
Smart words of a smart man.
I will only clarify that Kasparov is not Russian by nationality. He is Armenian and Jewish.

The ethnicity is irrelevant
He was russian by nationality and citizenship.

By his own words:
"Although I'm half-Armenian, half-Jewish, I consider myself Russian because Russian is my native tongue, and I grew up with Russian culture."
He was also a presidential candidate in russia and he considers russia his homeland, although he now got the Croatian citizenship to escape from putin's persecution.

Remember that Stalin was a Georgian ethnic. Remember that there are many russian citizens or russian nationals of non-russian ethnicity fighting for putin in Ukraine.

The ethnicity is irrelevant. It's not a matter of genes, it's a matter of culture.
Remember that Zelensky himself is Jewish.
You are not quite right. I wrote that the problem of Russians is in their genes. Russians by nationality have occupied other peoples and nations and are holding by force in the totalitarian Russian empire. I just want to say that it will be very difficult for you to find a Russian by nationality who will speak the same way as Kasparov speaks. Of course, I saw someone in the media, but I'm not sure that these people are sincere, and not playing the role of liberals.
Yes, Stalin was a Georgian, but he served Russians by nationality and strengthened the Russian empire.
In the Russian Empire, there is only one state language - Russian, Russians consider themselves the titular nation. Russians consider all other nations below themselves. If someone lived in their Moscow or St. Petersburg, this could be noticed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 14:03
Some authors exaggerate russia's ability to use nuclear weapons effectively. russia does not have missiles capable of overcoming the air defense of NATO countries. The United States can destroy the nuclear perimeter of russia in exactly 2 hours. If desired, NATO can turn all of Russia into nuclear ashes Naturally, from a purely environmental point of view, this will not be done, but destroying Russian nuclear weapons is not a problem for NATO. Allegedly, the "second army of the world" is retreating under pressure from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, there is no need to scare anyone here with the Russian red button, nuclear suitcase, etc.

This can be written by a kid with no knowledge whatsoever.

Answer this ? 

Give me one war in modern history that inculcated modern arms that had less civil vs military casualties level than this in Ukraine ?

They can destroy Ukraine in a day and no world would move a finger.

Secondly, if Russia fired all it has just that what would pass the defense could destroy the civilization and Europe would be thing of the past.

And let me remind you who retreated from Vietnam, who lost in the Bay of Pigs Invasion or how the Korean adventure ended.


Leave your whataboutisms for your friends on the slider, and let adults decide on this. And your adults are fckn afraid cause if not they would addmit Ukraine in NATO today and end the thing but they cant
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 14:23
Just to debunk the stupidity:

David Barash,  who has written about preventing nuclear war, told Newsweek the chance of the U.S. intercepting a nuclear-armed Inter Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) is "extremely low."

"We shouldn't be fooled by the moderate success that 'anti-missile defense systems' have been having in Ukraine," Barash said. "The missiles in question have been mostly cruise missiles of one sort or other; they fly about 500 mph, whereas ballistic missiles re-entering the atmosphere are about 15,000 mph."

"Intercepting them is an order of magnitude more difficult: Khrushchev likened it to 'hitting a bullet with a bullet,' and although anti-missile technology has evolved since then, so has offensive tech. The prospects of the U.S., or anyone, successfully intercepting ICBMs are extremely low," he said.



3. Just out of curiosity, how much of the United States could be reached by a Russian nuclear attack?

All of it. Russia deploys at least 1,500 warheads on hundreds of missiles based from air, land, and sea platforms that can strike the entire U.S. homeland.

Russia also is developing brand new “novel” capabilities that can strike the U.S., like hypersonic missiles and a nuclear-powered cruise missile and torpedo. Fortunately, the United States also maintains a nuclear triad that can strike all of Russia, providing a strong deterrent to a Russian attack.

The difference is that while Russia has modernized its nuclear forces about 90% of the way through, the U.S. still relies on platforms built during the Cold War. For instance, the U.S. is still squeezing life out of the Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile that was designed in 1960.

Programs to replace these outdated capabilities with modern systems are just getting underway, and each year must overcome opposition from far-left members of Congress.






https://www.newsweek.com/us-safe-nuclear-attack-1753288 (https://www.newsweek.com/us-safe-nuclear-attack-1753288)

https://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-weapons/missile-defense (https://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-weapons/missile-defense)

https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/answers-6-big-questions-about-putins-nuclear-threats (https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/answers-6-big-questions-about-putins-nuclear-threats)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 14:32
Frankly, I don't think there's anything that the West can do to stop President Putin from using a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine if he chooses to do so.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-dam-putin-nuclear-threats-kevin-ryan/32449075.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-dam-putin-nuclear-threats-kevin-ryan/32449075.html)


As I said, your generals share my point of view but you know best  :D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 15:10
Frankly, I don't think there's anything that the West can do to stop President Putin from using a tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine if he chooses to do so.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-dam-putin-nuclear-threats-kevin-ryan/32449075.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-russia-dam-putin-nuclear-threats-kevin-ryan/32449075.html)


As I said, your generals share my point of view but you know best  :D
It's just opinion and fear. According to military experts, tactical nuclear weapons will not stop the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 15:12
Some authors exaggerate russia's ability to use nuclear weapons effectively. russia does not have missiles capable of overcoming the air defense of NATO countries. The United States can destroy the nuclear perimeter of russia in exactly 2 hours. If desired, NATO can turn all of Russia into nuclear ashes Naturally, from a purely environmental point of view, this will not be done, but destroying Russian nuclear weapons is not a problem for NATO. Allegedly, the "second army of the world" is retreating under pressure from the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, there is no need to scare anyone here with the Russian red button, nuclear suitcase, etc.

This can be written by a kid with no knowledge whatsoever.

Answer this ? 

Give me one war in modern history that inculcated modern arms that had less civil vs military casualties level than this in Ukraine ?

They can destroy Ukraine in a day and no world would move a finger.

Secondly, if Russia fired all it has just that what would pass the defense could destroy the civilization and Europe would be thing of the past.

And let me remind you who retreated from Vietnam, who lost in the Bay of Pigs Invasion or how the Korean adventure ended.

Leave your whataboutisms for your friends on the slider, and let adults decide on this. And your adults are fckn afraid cause if not they would addmit Ukraine in NATO today and end the thing but they cant
These are all the threats and dreams of Russian propaganda. You need to listen to the alcoholic Dmitry Medvedev, he every morning from a hangover shoots nuclear missiles all over the world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 15:16
Just to debunk the stupidity:

David Barash,  who has written about preventing nuclear war, told Newsweek the chance of the U.S. intercepting a nuclear-armed Inter Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) is "extremely low."

"We shouldn't be fooled by the moderate success that 'anti-missile defense systems' have been having in Ukraine," Barash said. "The missiles in question have been mostly cruise missiles of one sort or other; they fly about 500 mph, whereas ballistic missiles re-entering the atmosphere are about 15,000 mph."

"Intercepting them is an order of magnitude more difficult: Khrushchev likened it to 'hitting a bullet with a bullet,' and although anti-missile technology has evolved since then, so has offensive tech. The prospects of the U.S., or anyone, successfully intercepting ICBMs are extremely low," he said.



3. Just out of curiosity, how much of the United States could be reached by a Russian nuclear attack?

All of it. Russia deploys at least 1,500 warheads on hundreds of missiles based from air, land, and sea platforms that can strike the entire U.S. homeland.

Russia also is developing brand new “novel” capabilities that can strike the U.S., like hypersonic missiles and a nuclear-powered cruise missile and torpedo. Fortunately, the United States also maintains a nuclear triad that can strike all of Russia, providing a strong deterrent to a Russian attack.

The difference is that while Russia has modernized its nuclear forces about 90% of the way through, the U.S. still relies on platforms built during the Cold War. For instance, the U.S. is still squeezing life out of the Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile that was designed in 1960.

Programs to replace these outdated capabilities with modern systems are just getting underway, and each year must overcome opposition from far-left members of Congress.






https://www.newsweek.com/us-safe-nuclear-attack-1753288 (https://www.newsweek.com/us-safe-nuclear-attack-1753288)

https://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-weapons/missile-defense (https://www.ucsusa.org/nuclear-weapons/missile-defense)

https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/answers-6-big-questions-about-putins-nuclear-threats (https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/answers-6-big-questions-about-putins-nuclear-threats)
Nonsense. If in Soviet times the Russians posed some kind of threat, now the Russians have drunk and plundered everything. The latest tests of their ballistic missiles were unsuccessful. No one in that Russia even knows what state their nuclear potential is in, everything is outdated there and the expiration date has expired. Most likely, Russian nuclear weapons will explode faster on Russian territory than even reach Europe. Not to mention that the United States has warned the Russians over the past year that they will launch preemptive strikes first, and these strikes will be serious.
No need to scare here with a wild dying bear.
Are you afraid of Russians? This is your personal problem. Ukraine and Ukrainians are not afraid of the Russians, and the result of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the battlefield is more than impressive. Yes, many EU countries are ready to fall to their knees and surrender at the sight of a Russian orc, but the example of Ukraine shows that Russians can be quickly and effectively eliminated.

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 15:20
This can be written by a kid with no knowledge whatsoever.
I see you are a military expert here who knows everything, knows the state of the nuclear arsenal in rotten russia and knows what the USA, Great Britain, and France have and do not have. Nu-nu, make me laugh with your posts again.
 ;D ;D ;D

Lizard, what country do you live in and why do you post Russian fakes here?  ::) :D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 12, 2023, 15:21
The difference is that while Russia has modernized its nuclear forces about 90% of the way through, the U.S. still relies on platforms built during the Cold War.

I don't know what you're smoking, but maybe change the dealer.

HIMARS, 40-year old NATO technology, has basically stopped all Russian advances. Has anyone seen the famous Russian Armata tanks in action? :)

Yes, Russia pumped billions into its military, but it was spent on yachts and hookers.

Russia is now a vassal state of China. China will not allow Russia to use nukes, even if they had some working ones. China has a plan about how to become the No. 1 superpower. And that plan doesn't include some Russian psychopathic-ultrareligious moron shooting nukes, because it makes things very unpredictable. Xi can literally obliterate the Russian economy with a single sentence.

(https://i.imgur.com/MHWP5rW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/yTwypJD.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/lIxmfeE.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 15:33
They can destroy Ukraine in a day and no world would move a finger.
This is the 500th day of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Russia fired all the missiles it had on Ukraine. And what?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 12, 2023, 15:34
And let me remind you who retreated from Vietnam, who lost in the Bay of Pigs Invasion or how the Korean adventure ended.

Let me remind you then who managed to lose a naval battle against Czechoslovakia, a country without access to sea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lake_Baikal

Let me remind you that some 200,000 Russian soldiers are in Finland, but about 1 meter deep in the ground.

Let me remind you how Poland kicked Russians butts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War

(https://i.imgur.com/2UQnDYZ.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 12, 2023, 16:49

To come as an ally and to come and commit largest genocide in history killing 50 Millions people and stealing their land is now a same thing.


Yeah, the Croats invaded the Balkans as allies of the local population.  Riiiight!

They didn't occupy those lands, they didn't murdered the autochthonous tribes, they didn't raid, rape and plunder all the Balkans and the Byzantine empire.
They all came in peace and were welcomed with flowers by the natives Thracian and Illiryian tribes, who joyfully gave them their lands. Riiiight!

Continue to believe these national myths you were brainwashed from childhood with, and never thought to challenge (until today, hopefuly?)

One more thing: the first croat migrants in the US were mentioned as early as 1715. So if I'd be in your shoes, I wouldn't exclude the participation of croats in the genocide against the native American population, the same way I wouldn't exclude the participation of any other ethnicity migrating to the new world, back in those days.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 17:30

To come as an ally and to come and commit largest genocide in history killing 50 Millions people and stealing their land is now a same thing.


Yeah, the Croats invaded the Balkans as allies of the local population.  Riiiight!

They didn't occupy those lands, they didn't murdered the autochthonous tribes, they didn't raid, rape and plunder all the Balkans and the Byzantine empire.
They all came in peace and were welcomed with flowers by the natives Thracian and Illiryian tribes, who joyfully gave them their lands. Riiiight!

Continue to believe these national myths you were brainwashed from childhood with, and never thought to challenge (until today, hopefuly?)

One more thing: the first croat migrants in the US were mentioned as early as 1715. So if I'd be in your shoes, I wouldn't exclude the participation of croats in the genocide against the native American population, the same way I wouldn't exclude the participation of any other ethnicity migrating to the new world, back in those days.

Those who embraced nazism even used  to have a camp for mass killing Serbian children during WWII even Hitler was disgusted about. Then they mostly escaped to America and their children and grandchildren are singing songs glorifying those killings all around the west.

Here is one from Chicago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L27oCe1lOeg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L27oCe1lOeg)

US and other western countries literary don't have problems with that, they were considered refugees from communism and many of them had a lot of money they stole from ones they killed so they could buy their spot in society.

You will recognize them easily with flags with firs white square on the emblem and their flags will be on their windows on day celebrating birthdays and deaths of their nazi leaders.   


Those ones who chased them away...those are the problems of central Europe

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 18:03
This can be written by a kid with no knowledge whatsoever.
I see you are a military expert here who knows everything, knows the state of the nuclear arsenal in rotten russia and knows what the USA, Great Britain, and France have and do not have. Nu-nu, make me laugh with your posts again.
 ;D ;D ;D

Lizard, what country do you live in and why do you post Russian fakes here?  ::) :D

Well, as you can see Im quoting your generals who are apparently talking russian fakes  ;D

And here is one of the 18 years old me at the end of the front raw after 5 weeks training marching on 100 times more armed Russian puppets Serbian JNA forces in 1992. 

(https://i.ibb.co/vHKTPyW/119.jpg)

I volunteered, so I guess now is your turn, Im sure they would gladly have you against russian on Ukrainian fields at the moment. As I see you wouldn't mind a little fight keep us informed when you arrive  ;)

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 13, 2023, 02:03
Well, as you can see Im quoting your generals who are apparently talking russian fakes  ;D
You don't know who I am, and the generals you quoted are not my generals. All that you quoted is very outdated information that is of no value and is Russian fakes. There are many useful idiots in the world who, for money or out of their stupidity, repeat what Russian propaganda tells them.
You better be interested in real events. So, the Russian myth about the Russian army as the second army in the world turned into a fake back in 2022.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 13, 2023, 03:17
...

Genetically, on the Y chromosome line, a majority (75%) of male Croats from Croatia belong to haplogroups I (38%-43%), R1a (22%-25%) and R1b (8%-9%), while a minority (25%) mostly belong to haplogroup E (10%), and others to haplogroups J (7%-10%), G (2%-4%), H (0.3-1.8%), and N (<1%).[115][116] The distribution, variance and frequency of the I2 and R1a subclades (>60%) among Croats are related to the medieval Slavic expansion, probably from the territory of present day Ukraine and Southeastern Poland.

...

This is a perfectly normal and sane post. Nothing to worry about here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on July 13, 2023, 06:00
You don't know who I am
It doesn't matter who you are. It's important what you are.
Until February 15, 2023, I see no mention of War in your forum posts. But from that moment hate propaganda suddenly poured out of you. Propaganda in which the truth is mixed with fakes. Why such strong changes after a year of war? I may be wrong but it is "highly likely" (as some politicians like to say) that you got a new job in CIPSO (Center for Information and Psychological Operations) troll factory and now you are brainwashing the readers of this forum. Am I right, Keyboard Warrior?
I Have Spoken.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on July 13, 2023, 06:34
Stocker2014 is clearly not here working for anyone. He is prone to conspiratorial thinking and is very racially prejudiced against Russians. Ironically he may have fallen for some propaganda actually perpetuated by Russian troll farms, for example that Ukraine would be better off if Republicans were in charge in the US. You can bet Russian agents are very present in the areas of the internet where these things are discussed.

His racism is very distasteful, and very wrong; factually and morally. It is also hugely counterproductive as it gives Russians who oppose the invasion no way out. Putin’s biggest problem with Ukraine is it showed Russians a possible future free of him. I am sure he is very happy to see this kind of talk pushing them further towards him.

But at the same time it is easy for “enlightened” people to criticise him in this situation. The Russian state is currently attacking Europe. I don’t know who he is and if he or his loved ones are, or have been, in the firing line.

For example, my mother has a close friend who is very racist against a nationality that invaded her country, took her brother into the woods, and murdered him. She didn’t even know the location of his body for 50 years. It isn’t worth arguing with her. It just isn’t the same/ practical to criticise people for hating a nationality at times of war. You can only gently correct them and hope they get to know good people from that race/ nationality eventually.

I can only say blanket hatred of Russians is not helping Ukraine. At the very least they need to know they can surrender without being attacked.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 13, 2023, 10:40

I Have Spoken.

Now that you have spoken, can you also let us know if you can pass Kasparov's litmus test?

Can you say these three things, in five seconds, without stuttering:
The war is criminal.
The regime is illegitimate.
Crimea is Ukraine

?
🤔
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on July 13, 2023, 11:36
can you also let us know if you can pass Kasparov's litmus test?
No. I'm not a parrot to repeat someone's words.
On these issues, I can say the following:
1. Any violence against man, animals and nature is criminal.
2. I believe that not only regimes, but also states should become a thing of the past for humanity. I am for a legitimately elected global government with clear and effective mechanisms for their control by society.
3. I look at this question realistically. If my memory doesn't fail me, initiallyCrimea belonged to the Taurians. Later, many different nationalities and states were replaced here. Of the existing states, the right of primacy should belong to the Greeks. After the collapse of the USSR, Crimea belonged to Ukraine. Now the laws of the Russian state are in force on the peninsula. Under whose jurisdiction will this territory be in the future - I do not know. I hope that the rapid development of information technologies and the understanding of the need for the peaceful coexistence of all nationalities of the Earth will lead humanity to a single state (see paragraph 2).

Sorry, I can no longer participate in the discussion. And I have no desire to do this, because anyway, everyone will remain with their own opinion and no one will convince anyone.
I'm leaving on an expedition where there won't be any communication now. Look for me somewhere here)) : https://goo.gl/maps/6Dk4ksMpAMRMQFJh8 (https://goo.gl/maps/6Dk4ksMpAMRMQFJh8)
Watch a couple of relaxing videos from my last expedition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTn-FQfSWlk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTn-FQfSWlk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJs_Hy5UQ-I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJs_Hy5UQ-I)

Peaceful sky above everyone's head!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 13, 2023, 14:01
1. Whose Crimea?
2. Should the Russian Empire continue to exist within today's borders? Or do oppressed peoples have the right to secede and create their own nation-states?
3. Should all war criminals who kill Ukrainians or help them be punished?
4. Should Russia withdraw its troops from Ukraine, Crimea, Donbass?
5. Should Russia pay reparations to Ukraine and Ukrainians for those killed, for destroyed cities, destroyed ecology and other losses?[/b]

Here on the forum not a single Russian has answered these questions yet, so for information.

1) Since 1783 Crimea was part of Russia (Soviet Union). Just since 1954 it was part of Ukraine when it was given (as a friendly gesture) to the soviet Republic of Ukraine (created in 1917, only to be independent in 1954). 60% of the inhabitants are Russians and only 24% Ukranian (measurement of 2001). So, according to the inhabitants I would say it's russian since inhabitants of the west of Ukraine staged the coup in 2014 and went another way. Secondly, because Sebastopol is of vital military importance to russia for it's naval fleet I can understand they would not have letten this go.

2) Same as all other countries that have seperatists in their borders. Should the Catalans have their own country in Spain, the Irish, the North of Italy, multiple groups in the US? Or even the Donbass in Ukraine? I actually see the west Ukranians to be the seperatists here.

3) Don't understand the question. What is it, that is asked here?

4) Yes, once the rights are respected of people living in those regions (Crimea and Donbass) according to the Minsk agreements or when they have complete autonomy from the West of Ukraine, it should be time for russian to leave those regions.

5) Maybe, if West Ukraine pays for the damages they have inflicted on the East of Ukraine during the 10 year civil war after their coup they staged in 2014. And maybe the EU, Great Britain, Australia and the US can also pay because they have delivered a lot of weapons helping to destroy the country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 13, 2023, 15:55
Since 1783 Crimea was part of Russia (Soviet Union). Just since 1954 it was part of Ukraine when it was given (as a friendly gesture) to the soviet Republic of Ukraine (created in 1917, only to be independent in 1954). 60% of the inhabitants are Russians and only 24% Ukranian (measurement of 2001). So, according to the inhabitants I would say it's russian since inhabitants of the west of Ukraine staged the coup in 2014 and went another way. Secondly, because Sebastopol is of vital military importance to russia for it's naval fleet I can understand they would not have letten this go.

The native population of Crimea is Crimean Tatars, and they are very pro-Ukrainian. They consider Ukraine to be their homeland. Russian murderers exterminated their ancestors or forcefully deported them. Russian criminals did the same in the Baltic states, taking the homes of Balts murdered by them. If Russians living in Crimea cannot behave properly, they will have to be expelled. It is not their land. I think Beneš-style decrees will be justified in this case. They can live, for example, in the traditional Russian native territory, i.e. the swamps around Moscow.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 13, 2023, 16:05
Maybe, if West Ukraine pays for the damages they have inflicted on the East of Ukraine during the 10 year civil war after their coup they staged in 2014. And maybe the EU, Great Britain, Australia and the US can also pay because they have delivered a lot of weapons helping to destroy the country.

No, that is not how it is going to work. The frozen funds (AFAIK some $200 bln) will be transferred for the reconstruction of Ukraine. And russians will have to pay for the rest.

If not, the sanctions will remain in place and in the long run the EU will have a border with China. Vladivostok is already treated as an internal Chinese harbor.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/05/26/beijing-now-free-to-use-russian-port-of-vladivostok-for-its-domestic-trade_6028059_4.html (https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/05/26/beijing-now-free-to-use-russian-port-of-vladivostok-for-its-domestic-trade_6028059_4.html)

I guess, russians may think that paying for the reconstruction of Ukraine is a good deal.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 13, 2023, 16:15
can you also let us know if you can pass Kasparov's litmus test?
No. I'm not a parrot to repeat someone's words.
On these issues, I can say the following:
1. Any violence against man, animals and nature is criminal.
2. I believe that not only regimes, but also states should become a thing of the past for humanity. I am for a legitimately elected global government with clear and effective mechanisms for their control by society.
3. I look at this question realistically. If my memory doesn't fail me, initiallyCrimea belonged to the Taurians. Later, many different nationalities and states were replaced here. Of the existing states, the right of primacy should belong to the Greeks. After the collapse of the USSR, Crimea belonged to Ukraine. Now the laws of the Russian state are in force on the peninsula. Under whose jurisdiction will this territory be in the future - I do not know. I hope that the rapid development of information technologies and the understanding of the need for the peaceful coexistence of all nationalities of the Earth will lead humanity to a single state (see paragraph 2).
Here is the answer of the most ordinary Russian rashist. Q.E.D. But he does not consider himself a rashist, he wants to be considered a "good" Russian. It is on people like this zastavkin that the Russian empire and Putin rest.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 13, 2023, 16:20
His racism is very distasteful, and very wrong; factually and morally. It is also hugely counterproductive as it gives Russians who oppose the invasion no way out. Putin’s biggest problem with Ukraine is it showed Russians a possible future free of him. I am sure he is very happy to see this kind of talk pushing them further towards him.
There is a war in Europe, and there are only a few good Russians, in fact there are none. I write the truth as it is. Yes, many do not like the truth, it is an axiom.

I treat the Russians the same way that all normal people treated the * in the last century. Russians in the 21st century are no different from the * in the 20th century. And I don't consider myself a racist.
Yes, there are several hundred Russians, maybe several thousand, who are waging a guerrilla war against the Rashists. I respect these people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 13, 2023, 16:24
The native population of Crimea is Crimean Tatars, and they are very pro-Ukrainian. They consider Ukraine to be their homeland. Russian murderers exterminated their ancestors or forcefully deported them. Russian criminals did the same in the Baltic states, taking the homes of Balts murdered by them.

Yes, and before that it was Schythic, Greek, Roman, Gothic, Hunnic, Byzantine, Ottoman...

russians are only a recent addition, replacing the natives who were either deported or ran for their life in other places (this is why we can find Crimean Tartars descendents in today's Romania, Bulgaria,Turkey).

What matters is what the international community and even russia recognized (and guaranteed) as official borders, before a paranoid mad man with imperial ambitions decided to kill his way through.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 13, 2023, 16:28
What matters is what the international community and even russia recognized as official borders, before a mad man with with imperial ambitions decided to kill his way through.
Russian rashists do not want to understand this. And then the same zastavkin shouts here on the forum that US sanctions are applied to him, that he is not given money and that he is not to blame for anything.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 13, 2023, 16:30
for example that Ukraine would be better off if Republicans were in charge in the US.
Depends on which Republicans. I'm not campaigning for the Republicans here on the forum. I just wrote that many Republicans support Ukraine, and this is true.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 13, 2023, 16:34
So, the NATO summit was unsuccessful for Ukraine. Ukraine was not taken into NATO. Everyone is afraid of putin.

NATO countries! Do not be afraid of russia and Russians! Ukraine will protect you all!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 05:53
There is good news. Ukraine received cluster munition. The number of liquidated Russian terrorists should greatly increase.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-07-13/joe-biden-is-right-to-send-cluster-bombs-to-ukraine (https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-07-13/joe-biden-is-right-to-send-cluster-bombs-to-ukraine)


(https://zn.ua/img/article/5529/54_main-v1689253917.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 06:36
Top 5 Russian Fakes about NATO Summit in Vilnius

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-factcheck/3735520-top-5-russian-fakes-about-nato-summit-in-vilnius.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-factcheck/3735520-top-5-russian-fakes-about-nato-summit-in-vilnius.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 07:56
The Armed Forces of Ukraine eliminate the Russian infantry fighting vehicle to the sounds of the Russian musical instrument balalaika.
https://t.me/your_country_news/1540
In the statistics of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Russian losses will be counted as eliminated. Or injured?  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 14, 2023, 09:11
for example that Ukraine would be better off if Republicans were in charge in the US.
Depends on which Republicans. I'm not campaigning for the Republicans here on the forum. I just wrote that many Republicans support Ukraine, and this is true.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s (R-Ga.) amendment to strip $300 million in Ukraine aid from the bill failed in a huge fashion, 341-89.

Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) amendment to prohibit security assistance for Ukraine also failed spectacularly 358-70.

Rep. Andy Ogles’ (R-Tenn.) amendment to strike language extending Lend-Lease authority for Ukraine failed 360-71.

Only thing troubling here is that 70+ Republicans voted for these shameful bills.

So, you have 100% support from the Democrats, the Republicans are pushing anti-Ukraine bills, but you like the Republicans more.

Please stop with the self-harming...  :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 09:55
for example that Ukraine would be better off if Republicans were in charge in the US.
Depends on which Republicans. I'm not campaigning for the Republicans here on the forum. I just wrote that many Republicans support Ukraine, and this is true.

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene’s (R-Ga.) amendment to strip $300 million in Ukraine aid from the bill failed in a huge fashion, 341-89.

Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) amendment to prohibit security assistance for Ukraine also failed spectacularly 358-70.

Rep. Andy Ogles’ (R-Tenn.) amendment to strike language extending Lend-Lease authority for Ukraine failed 360-71.

Only thing troubling here is that 70+ Republicans voted for these shameful bills.

So, you have 100% support from the Democrats, the Republicans are pushing anti-Ukraine bills, but you like the Republicans more.

Please stop with the self-harming...  :-\
All this can be discussed.
For some reason, you and other authors consider all Republicans to be enemies of democracy. At the same time, only a small percentage of Republicans (Trump's wing) vote against Ukraine.
What is 100% Democratic support and how does it manifest itself? This needs to be figured out. I have already written about Democrats like Clinton, Obama, Biden. I am not satisfied with their policy and support for Ukraine. It was under these presidents that catastrophic mistakes were made for Ukraine.
I wrote many times that Ukraine has long needed aviation and long-range missiles. They were not given. So what is the support of the Democrats, in money? And I already wrote about money, money is useless on the battlefield. Democrats do not allow Ukraine to shoot at Russian military facilities in Crimea, and military infrastructure on Russian territory. Democrats tie Ukraine's hands!
Democrats give Ukraine weapons, but only when the Russians are well prepared to repulse these weapons, as a result, the war is constantly dragged out and Ukrainians die every day.
Perhaps the Republicans would have pursued the same policy as the Democrats. It all depends on their leader, who is now Trump (and few people like this leader, and there are reasons for that).
Therefore, it is more correct to say that I am not satisfied with the policy of the Democrats, and I am not campaigning for the Republicans.
From the information that I see, it is the Republicans who are not happy that Biden is providing insufficient military assistance to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 10:26
Ukraine is conducting military operations according to tactics and strategy as during the First World War. This is the result of the policy of the Democrats. Ukraine is fighting Russians who have aircraft and long-range missiles, and Ukraine does not have this. Yes, at the cost of the lives of Ukrainians, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are slowly moving forward, 100 meters, 500 meters a day. These are all tactics of the First World War. For such tactics, I cannot thank the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 14, 2023, 11:24
Ukraine is conducting military operations according to tactics and strategy as during the First World War. This is the result of the policy of the Democrats. Ukraine is fighting Russians who have aircraft and long-range missiles, and Ukraine does not have this. Yes, at the cost of the lives of Ukrainians, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are slowly moving forward, 100 meters, 500 meters a day. These are all tactics of the First World War. For such tactics, I cannot thank the Democrats.

I understand your nostalgia for the "good ol' days" of the old-school Republicans, like McCain, and I understand your anger with Obama's appeasement attempt when he closed his eyes to putin's annexation of Crimea, etc.

What you fail to understand is that these days are gone.

It has been explained to you that while insufficient, the best deal Ukraine can get today and in the near future comes from Biden's administration and the Democrat party whose elected representatives are 100% behind Ukraine.

It has been explained to you that the post-MAGA GoP is not a conservative party anymore. They are a national-populist party with a strong isolationist doctrine.

It has been explained to you that 44% of the Republican voters are tired of the Ukraine war, and a significantly large cluster of 70+ GoP representatives are listening to their constituents and doubling down on this sentiment, pushing for ALL aid for Ukraine to be stopped.

It has been also explained to you that once Trump will win the nomination, nearly the entirety of Republicans, including those who are currently voting in favor of Ukraine, will fall in line and follow their leader, who proved himself a putin apologist, an isolationist, a liar, an ignoramus ... a moron.

It has been explained to you that when this will happen, the "Ukrainian fatigue" among the GoP electorate will grow stronger, and God forbids, if trump wins the presidency again, Ukraine is doomed.

I advise you to stop dreaming and wake up to the new reality.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 14, 2023, 12:53
I advise you to stop dreaming and wake up to the new reality.
The reality under the Democrats is very bad, comparable to death and genocide, which is what is happening in Ukraine.
Why are you writing all this to me, I criticized the Democrats, but I did not promote Trump to the presidency. I will always criticize the Democrats, because there is very, very little sense from them.
If the Republicans ever win, I'll compare. I do not vote for the President of the United States, I am not a US citizen. I can only judge the results of US policy, which I do.

You can talk about something from the outside, you are not a party to the conflict. You can afford forecasts, philosophizing, choosing a political party in the USA.
You do not understand one thing, if the Russians kill you, it will not matter to you whether the Democrats rule in the USA or the Republicans. But you will not be indifferent to the politics of those in power in the United States. Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 14, 2023, 14:28
I advise you to stop dreaming and wake up to the new reality.
The reality under the Democrats is very bad, comparable to death and genocide, which is what is happening in Ukraine.
Why are you writing all this to me, I criticized the Democrats, but I did not promote Trump to the presidency. I will always criticize the Democrats, because there is very, very little sense from them.
If the Republicans ever win, I'll compare. I do not vote for the President of the United States, I am not a US citizen. I can only judge the results of US policy, which I do.

You can talk about something from the outside, you are not a party to the conflict. You can afford forecasts, philosophizing, choosing a political party in the USA.
You do not understand one thing, if the Russians kill you, it will not matter to you whether the Democrats rule in the USA or the Republicans. But you will not be indifferent to the politics of those in power in the United States. Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.
You have some serious issues my friend. I would consider getting some help if I were you. You are quite disturbed.
And for everyone here that agrees with all the nonsense and hate Stoker2014 is screaming out please scratch your head once or twice.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 14, 2023, 20:02
Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.

Hi Stoker. Not ganging up on you, just want to set the record straight. USA Democrats were not in power for the past 30 years. Here is the timeline:

President Clinton (Democrat).
2000. Putin becomes president of Russia. Clinton immediately senses that putin is not to be trusted but his presidency is coming to an end.

President George W Bush (Republican) 2001-2008
- Bush likes Putin and says he can be trusted. His famous line: "I looked into his eyes and could see his soul".
- The first long-range nuclear bombers by Russia
- Russia's devasting cyberattack on Estonia
- Putin attacks Georgia
- Bush does nothing.

President Obama (Democrat)2009-2016
- Obama puts Vice President Joe Biden in charge of foreign affairs in Russia.
- Joe Biden can see through putin and says to him, "I'm looking into your eyes and I don't think you have a soul".
- There is a political uprising of hundreds of thousands of people in Russia against Putin's recent actions. Putin squashes rebellion. Opposition leaders, journalists and anti-corruption campaigners are arrested, disappear, or die mysteriously.
- Putin seizes Crimea.
- Vice President Biden is furious and insists that putin must be stopped. But Biden loses and Obama does nothing.

President Trump (Republican)2017-2020
- Trump sides with putin, says that USA should pull out of Nato, and takes putin's side on Ukrainian issues.

President Joe Biden (Democrat)2021-
- Putin's war on Ukraine.
- Biden sends 76+ billion dollars of financial, humanitarian, military, and weapons aid to Ukraine - despite also having to deal with a post-pandemic economy in USA.



More info here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/)

This one is interesting:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/)




Looks like Biden has been all along Ukraine's best defense against Putin.





 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 14, 2023, 21:07
Maybe, if West Ukraine pays for the damages they have inflicted on the East of Ukraine during the 10 year civil war after their coup they staged in 2014.

This illustrates what was going on in eastern Ukraine:

(https://i.imgur.com/RStsRJF.jpg)


Even Priggy's trolls confirm it:

https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/07/14/victims-of-donbas-genocide-were-paid-actors-prigozhins-fired-trolls-reveal/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 14, 2023, 22:47
Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.

Hi Stoker. Not ganging up on you, just want to set the record straight. USA Democrats were not in power for the past 30 years. Here is the timeline:

President Clinton (Democrat).
2000. Putin becomes president of Russia. Clinton immediately senses that putin is not to be trusted but his presidency is coming to an end.

President George W Bush (Republican) 2001-2008
- Bush likes Putin and says he can be trusted. His famous line: "I looked into his eyes and could see his soul".
- The first long-range nuclear bombers by Russia
- Russia's devasting cyberattack on Estonia
- Putin attacks Georgia
- Bush does nothing.

President Obama (Democrat)2009-2016
- Obama puts Vice President Joe Biden in charge of foreign affairs in Russia.
- Joe Biden can see through putin and says to him, "I'm looking into your eyes and I don't think you have a soul".
- There is a political uprising of hundreds of thousands of people in Russia against Putin's recent actions. Putin squashes rebellion. Opposition leaders, journalists and anti-corruption campaigners are arrested, disappear, or die mysteriously.
- Putin seizes Crimea.
- Vice President Biden is furious and insists that putin must be stopped. But Biden loses and Obama does nothing.

President Trump (Republican)2017-2020
- Trump sides with putin, says that USA should pull out of Nato, and takes putin's side on Ukrainian issues.

President Joe Biden (Democrat)2021-
- Putin's war on Ukraine.
- Biden sends 76+ billion dollars of financial, humanitarian, military, and weapons aid to Ukraine - despite also having to deal with a post-pandemic economy in USA.



More info here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/)

This one is interesting:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/)




Looks like Biden has been all along Ukraine's best defense against Putin.

Forgot to add:

2000 Clinton (Democrat) but with a Republican Majority Congress

George W Bush - Republican Congress

Barack Obama - First 2 years Democrat congress, then Republican majority in the House

Trump - First 2 years Republican congress, then Democrats in the House

Biden - Republican majority in the House second two years. (Current)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on July 15, 2023, 04:20
Democrats have been in power in the United States now and for the past 30 years.

Hi Stoker. Not ganging up on you, just want to set the record straight. USA Democrats were not in power for the past 30 years. Here is the timeline:

President Clinton (Democrat).
2000. Putin becomes president of Russia. Clinton immediately senses that putin is not to be trusted but his presidency is coming to an end.

President George W Bush (Republican) 2001-2008
- Bush likes Putin and says he can be trusted. His famous line: "I looked into his eyes and could see his soul".
- The first long-range nuclear bombers by Russia
- Russia's devasting cyberattack on Estonia
- Putin attacks Georgia
- Bush does nothing.

President Obama (Democrat)2009-2016
- Obama puts Vice President Joe Biden in charge of foreign affairs in Russia.
- Joe Biden can see through putin and says to him, "I'm looking into your eyes and I don't think you have a soul".
- There is a political uprising of hundreds of thousands of people in Russia against Putin's recent actions. Putin squashes rebellion. Opposition leaders, journalists and anti-corruption campaigners are arrested, disappear, or die mysteriously.
- Putin seizes Crimea.
- Vice President Biden is furious and insists that putin must be stopped. But Biden loses and Obama does nothing.

President Trump (Republican)2017-2020
- Trump sides with putin, says that USA should pull out of Nato, and takes putin's side on Ukrainian issues.

President Joe Biden (Democrat)2021-
- Putin's war on Ukraine.
- Biden sends 76+ billion dollars of financial, humanitarian, military, and weapons aid to Ukraine - despite also having to deal with a post-pandemic economy in USA.



More info here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/)

This one is interesting:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/)




Looks like Biden has been all along Ukraine's best defense against Putin.

Forgot to add:

2000 Clinton (Democrat) but with a Republican Majority Congress

George W Bush - Republican Congress

Barack Obama - First 2 years Democrat congress, then Republican majority in the House

Trump - First 2 years Republican congress, then Democrats in the House

Biden - Republican majority in the House second two years. (Current)

Very nice post Annie. Using facts to settle different opinions.
And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
They give Ukrainians the weapons, some controversial ones included, teach them how to use them, and tell them where to aim them at by providing intelligence.


Whether that would have been the same with someone like Trump in charge is only speculation.
My 2 cents: Trump had a "different" relationship with Putin and was less convinced that a strong collaboration and partnership with the EU would be beneficial for the US. 
His claims that there would be no war in Ukraine with him in charge could actually be true. He might as well choose to not intervene at all, and allow Putin to take Ukraine, or let the EU deal with it on their own, which would severely weaken them as well.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 05:19
Hi Stoker. Not ganging up on you, just want to set the record straight. USA Democrats were not in power for the past 30 years. Here is the timeline:
Ок. The Democrats have been in power for 18 years. :)

President Clinton (Democrat).
2000. Putin becomes president of Russia. Clinton immediately senses that putin is not to be trusted but his presidency is coming to an end.
You know, when I read the biography of this KGB agent Putin only once, I immediately said that this agent cannot be trusted and he is 100% evil. He did not win the elections in Russia, Yeltsin appointed him tsar, and the Russians accepted him as their tsar.
So, Clinton took weapons from Ukraine, as a result, the Russians took a lot of missiles for themselves, and they all these missiles they fired at Ukraine. Great!

President George W Bush (Republican) 2001-2008
- Bush likes Putin and says he can be trusted. His famous line: "I looked into his eyes and could see his soul".
- The first long-range nuclear bombers by Russia
- Russia's devasting cyberattack on Estonia
- Putin attacks Georgia
- Bush does nothing.
Yesterday I did not quite fully describe my thoughts. I look not only at the personality of the presidents and what they personally say, what nonsense, but also the results of the rule of their political parties. For example, the same Trump, everyone understands that President Trump does not govern the United States alone, he appoints people from the Republican Party to key positions. There is a phrase, the retinue makes the king. Therefore, it is necessary to look not so much at what the US president says, but what consequences his rule has for the world.
When the Russians attacked Georgia, the US sent warships into the Black Sea, after which the Russian terrorists stopped the offensive. Russians are only afraid of Republicans.

President Obama (Democrat)2009-2016
- Obama puts Vice President Joe Biden in charge of foreign affairs in Russia.
- Joe Biden can see through putin and says to him, "I'm looking into your eyes and I don't think you have a soul".
- There is a political uprising of hundreds of thousands of people in Russia against Putin's recent actions. Putin squashes rebellion. Opposition leaders, journalists and anti-corruption campaigners are arrested, disappear, or die mysteriously.
- Putin seizes Crimea.
- Vice President Biden is furious and insists that putin must be stopped. But Biden loses and Obama does nothing.
I have underlined and bolded the results of Obama's administration. Under Obama, the Russians also occupied eastern Ukraine and the war broke out. In 2014, the war began. Not in 2022, but in 2014.

President Trump (Republican)2017-2020
- Trump sides with putin, says that USA should pull out of Nato, and takes putin's side on Ukrainian issues.
????? :-\ ??? :o
Trump told the EU countries that they need to pay for participation in NATO much more than they pay. Why should the US finance 70% of NATO's spending? Why are the EU countries friendly, supporting and trading with Russia? Why is there so much anti-American sentiment in the EU, and why is there so much of it even now? I understand that the EU countries do not want to pay anything for their security.
Further, under Trump, Russia did not even try to build the gas Nord Stream 2 and Trump kept the Kremlin agent Merkel under control. But Biden came along and Nord Stream 2 was completed. It was this northern stream 2 that was the permission for the Russians to launch a new attack on Ukraine. The Russians didn't attack Ukraine in 2022, they attacked Ukraine in 2014. But the Russians launched a new offensive in 2022.

President Joe Biden (Democrat)2021-
- Putin's war on Ukraine.
- Biden sends 76+ billion dollars of financial, humanitarian, military, and weapons aid to Ukraine - despite also having to deal with a post-pandemic economy in USA.
I highlighted in bold the result of Biden's rule. As for helping with money, did Biden decide to pay off his failed policies and support for the Russians? Biden was supposed to disconnect Russia from Swift back in 2021, introduce an oil and gas embargo, etc. and so on.
I have already written here many times about military assistance, there are no planes, no long-range missiles, and the Democrats also do not allow shooting where you need to shoot. Democrats or cowards or share with Putin.

More info here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview-collection/putin-and-the-presidents/)

This one is interesting:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/interview/timothy-snyder/)
There are many words for those who are not in the subject. Mostly support for Democrats and criticism of Republicans. One-sided approach. But who is not in the subject, you can certainly read. I would add a lot to what was said there.

Looks like Biden has been all along Ukraine's best defense against Putin.
:o :o :o
-100  :-X :'( :(
Come to Ukraine and you will see this "best" protection for yourself.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 05:26
Forgot to add:
2000 Clinton (Democrat) but with a Republican Majority Congress
George W Bush - Republican Congress
Barack Obama - First 2 years Democrat congress, then Republican majority in the House
Trump - First 2 years Republican congress, then Democrats in the House
Biden - Republican majority in the House second two years. (Current)
Here I can't write anything. The president appoints his people to key positions, I think Congress has nothing to do with these appointments.

p.s.
I will already be silent about the withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan ... and how it all happened ..
 :-X :-X :-X
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 05:30
And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
Oh, well written. And I will write what will happen to half of the EU when the Russians occupy Ukraine. Within a few years, the Russians will mobilize 5 million Ukrainians and attack all the EU countries that used to be part of the Soviet camp, and this is half of Germany too. And I can give you a 100% guarantee that half of the EU countries will be occupied by Russian hands of Ukrainians very quickly.
Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 06:15
Unfortunately, I cannot support only what is beneficial only to Ukraine. I understand that even if Trump was the best choice for Ukraine, this man organized the storming of the Capitol, and this is all very bad. I also understand that the policy of the Democrats can lead both to the defeat of Ukraine and to the occupation of half of the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 07:47
The Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, like me, is very dissatisfied with the policy of the Democrats.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/14/ukraine-military-valery-zaluzhny-russia/?fbclid=IwAR2FavxFD8IvdzzFdGJTG9sEpotZyGNEtxgtjen9nZIcGVjcy5I_fkD4t_M (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/14/ukraine-military-valery-zaluzhny-russia/?fbclid=IwAR2FavxFD8IvdzzFdGJTG9sEpotZyGNEtxgtjen9nZIcGVjcy5I_fkD4t_M)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 08:00
Ukraine’s top general, Valery Zaluzhny, wants shells, planes

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/06/30/valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-general-interview/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/06/30/valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-general-interview/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 08:07
BORIS JOHNSON criticized the policy of the Democrats.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12299647/BORIS-JOHNSON-West-Ukraine-Nato-fast-can.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12299647/BORIS-JOHNSON-West-Ukraine-Nato-fast-can.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 15, 2023, 08:54
And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
Oh, well written. And I will write what will happen to half of the EU when the Russians occupy Ukraine. Within a few years, the Russians will mobilize 5 million Ukrainians and attack all the EU countries that used to be part of the Soviet camp, and this is half of Germany too. And I can give you a 100% guarantee that half of the EU countries will be occupied by Russian hands of Ukrainians very quickly.
Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

I can't understand where your 100% guarantee comes from. Russia today is a people hostile to Ukrainians.

There is a great book Niccolo Machiavelli called "the prince" who explains that since the times of the Romans, History proves that when one people invades another, the most certain thing is to emerge and fight resistance from the invaded people. So if Russia succeeds in occupying Ukraine, which is not likely as it failed to do so in 500 days, it is most likely NOT managing to mobilize 5 million people in an already punished country to invade the countries that helped them a few years earlier.

If you give weapons to these 5 million Ukrainians, they will most likely revolt against Russia again.

And the proof that Russia is weak is for everyone to see: So far all objectives have failed and there are already internal rebellions where the Russian Wagner group rebelled against Russia and managed to reach very close to Moscow in less than 24 Hours.

After invading Russia will have to fight directly against 31+1(sweden) states of Nato but also indirectly (political and economical) with Commonwealth, Palop and other state communities. This probably means almost 2/3 of the world.
Let's also not forget that at the level of war technology, Russia is far behind.

I'm not a seer and I hate war but the evidence and the facts are showing that Russia will not win this war and most certainly not invade other countries. 

Perhaps Putin's departure is the most likely path - i pray and hope this happens soon!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on July 15, 2023, 09:28
Unfortunately, I cannot support only what is beneficial only to Ukraine. I understand that even if Trump was the best choice for Ukraine, this man organized the storming of the Capitol, and this is all very bad. I also understand that the policy of the Democrats can lead both to the defeat of Ukraine and to the occupation of half of the EU.

Trump is only the best choice for the Ukraine in some sort of parallel universe.

Probably the same universe where Merkel is a KGB agent, the Democrats have been in power in the US for 30 years and where Russia is going to invade Germany with the help of 5 million Ukrainians.

Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

No, the Ukraine is not a beggar, but neither are they in a position where the US and the EU have to do everything the Ukraine tells them to.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 15, 2023, 10:24
Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

I entirely agree with Big Toe on this. US and EU are helping Ukraine to fight this injustice war. Unfortunately Ukraine is not in NATO or in EU therefore not yet a full partner although I agree that this war brought our peoples even closer together.

As you may know, in democracies there needs to be consensus. There is no consensus among Member States when Ukraine will join NATO or the EU. The only consensus that exists is that the entry of Ukraine will only be discussed after the end of the war and in the meantime help Ukraine to fight and win this unjust war with Russia.

There is a huge and complicated path to achieve consensus with member states either in EU or NATO. In my humble opinion I think it will take less time for Ukraine to join the EU (maybe 8-12 years) than NATO (maybe decades). For example Finland had decades of simulations and training with NATO before join this year. On the other hand Turkey, which is a NATO member, have been in accession negotiations to EU since 2005 (almost 20 years).

Either way do not assume just because NATO and EU are committed in helping Ukraine it makes it a full partner. It's not.
To be one the answer will be fulfill all the requirements to apply for it. I am very positive that Ukraine could achieve this in a fair timeline.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 10:42
Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

I entirely agree with Big Toe on this. US and EU are helping Ukraine to fight this injustice war. Unfortunately Ukraine is not in NATO or in EU therefore not yet a full partner although I agree that this war brought our peoples even closer together.

As you may know, in democracies there needs to be consensus. There is no consensus among Member States when Ukraine will join NATO or the EU. The only consensus that exists is that the entry of Ukraine will only be discussed after the end of the war and in the meantime help Ukraine to fight and win this unjust war with Russia.

There is a huge and complicated path to achieve consensus with member states either in EU or NATO. In my humble opinion I think it will take less time for Ukraine to join the EU (maybe 8-12 years) than NATO (maybe decades). For example Finland had decades of simulations and training with NATO before join this year. On the other hand Turkey, which is a NATO member, have been in accession negotiations to EU since 2005 (almost 20 years).

Either way do not assume just because NATO and EU are committed in helping Ukraine it makes it a full partner. It's not.
To be one the answer will be fulfill all the requirements to apply for it. I am very positive that Ukraine could achieve this in a fair timeline.
I didn't mean partnership in terms of NATO or EU membership. I meant that Ukraine is at war with the terrorist Russian country of Russia, and Russia has started a war not only with Ukraine, but also with NATO. You have probably heard or read in this thread about the ultimatum that Russia put forward to NATO countries in 2022. Therefore, Ukraine today is protecting not only itself, but half of the EU. In this sense, I meant partnership.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 10:47
And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
Oh, well written. And I will write what will happen to half of the EU when the Russians occupy Ukraine. Within a few years, the Russians will mobilize 5 million Ukrainians and attack all the EU countries that used to be part of the Soviet camp, and this is half of Germany too. And I can give you a 100% guarantee that half of the EU countries will be occupied by Russian hands of Ukrainians very quickly.
Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

I can't understand where your 100% guarantee comes from. Russia today is a people hostile to Ukrainians.

There is a great book Niccolo Machiavelli called "the prince" who explains that since the times of the Romans, History proves that when one people invades another, the most certain thing is to emerge and fight resistance from the invaded people. So if Russia succeeds in occupying Ukraine, which is not likely as it failed to do so in 500 days, it is most likely NOT managing to mobilize 5 million people in an already punished country to invade the countries that helped them a few years earlier.

If you give weapons to these 5 million Ukrainians, they will most likely revolt against Russia again.

And the proof that Russia is weak is for everyone to see: So far all objectives have failed and there are already internal rebellions where the Russian Wagner group rebelled against Russia and managed to reach very close to Moscow in less than 24 Hours.

After invading Russia will have to fight directly against 31+1(sweden) states of Nato but also indirectly (political and economical) with Commonwealth, Palop and other state communities. This probably means almost 2/3 of the world.
Let's also not forget that at the level of war technology, Russia is far behind.

I'm not a seer and I hate war but the evidence and the facts are showing that Russia will not win this war and most certainly not invade other countries. 

Perhaps Putin's departure is the most likely path - i pray and hope this happens soon!
You don't know history. In 1917-1922, Ukraine also fought with Russia for its independence. Ukraine lost because it did not receive assistance from European countries. So, for several years, the Russians turned on propaganda and made the Ukrainians fight for Russia.
The NATO countries are very afraid of the Russians, and this can be seen even in this forum. I am not sure that NATO will be able to fight effectively in the situation that I have drawn. You must understand that this situation is very real and well known in both Washington and Brussels, and that is why Ukraine is getting at least some help.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 10:51
And the proof that Russia is weak is for everyone to see: So far all objectives have failed and there are already internal rebellions where the Russian Wagner group rebelled against Russia and managed to reach very close to Moscow in less than 24 Hours.
For Ukrainians, yes, Russians are weak. But the EU countries are very much afraid of Russian orcs. That's why I wrote, add another 5 million fearless Ukrainians to the Russians and you will get not modern rotten Russia, but the USSR that was before.
Don't refer to the Wagner group, it was a show for people like you. Read my posts on this topic, I wrote who the Wagner group is and what it really was. With all the desire, the Wagner group would not have reached Moscow. It was a staged show.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 10:54
Unfortunately, I cannot support only what is beneficial only to Ukraine. I understand that even if Trump was the best choice for Ukraine, this man organized the storming of the Capitol, and this is all very bad. I also understand that the policy of the Democrats can lead both to the defeat of Ukraine and to the occupation of half of the EU.

Trump is only the best choice for the Ukraine in some sort of parallel universe.

Probably the same universe where Merkel is a KGB agent, the Democrats have been in power in the US for 30 years and where Russia is going to invade Germany with the help of 5 million Ukrainians.

Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

No, the Ukraine is not a beggar, but neither are they in a position where the US and the EU have to do everything the Ukraine tells them to.
Stop helping Ukraine and together we'll see how it ends for the EU.  :-\ :-\ :-\

In 1945, the troops of the USSR, mainly thanks to Ukrainian soldiers, very quickly occupied half of today's EU. And the Russians want to repeat it.

But you can continue to cling to my words, find errors in my text and try to make me look like an idiot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 10:57
Today I gave references to Zaluzhny's statements, consider that ultimatums from Ukraine to the EU countries and the NATO bloc are already beginning.

In Ukraine, the idiotic politics of the Democrats will not be tolerated for long.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 15, 2023, 11:07
And the proof that Russia is weak is for everyone to see: So far all objectives have failed and there are already internal rebellions where the Russian Wagner group rebelled against Russia and managed to reach very close to Moscow in less than 24 Hours.
For Ukrainians, yes, Russians are weak. But the EU countries are very much afraid of Russian orcs. That's why I wrote, add another 5 million fearless Ukrainians to the Russians and you will get not modern rotten Russia, but the USSR that was before.
Don't refer to the Wagner group, it was a show for people like you. Read my posts on this topic, I wrote who the Wagner group is and what it really was. With all the desire, the Wagner group would not have reached Moscow. It was a staged show.

I don't see any EU country or the US being afraid of Russia.
But sometimes it makes sense to just take a deep breath and make your decisions well-founded and well-considered, and also to consider the possible consequences.
I would also recommend that you take a deep breath too.
 
First and foremost, Ukraine is not served at all if the Russians unpack their tactical nuclear weapons. In view of what has happened so far, I think this is a more realistic scenario than the Russians standing outside Berlin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on July 15, 2023, 11:11
Unfortunately, I cannot support only what is beneficial only to Ukraine. I understand that even if Trump was the best choice for Ukraine, this man organized the storming of the Capitol, and this is all very bad. I also understand that the policy of the Democrats can lead both to the defeat of Ukraine and to the occupation of half of the EU.

Trump is only the best choice for the Ukraine in some sort of parallel universe.

Probably the same universe where Merkel is a KGB agent, the Democrats have been in power in the US for 30 years and where Russia is going to invade Germany with the help of 5 million Ukrainians.

Therefore, Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

No, the Ukraine is not a beggar, but neither are they in a position where the US and the EU have to do everything the Ukraine tells them to.
Stop helping Ukraine and together we'll see how it ends for the EU.  :-\ :-\ :-\

In 1945, the troops of the USSR, mainly thanks to Ukrainian soldiers, very quickly occupied half of today's EU. And the Russians want to repeat it.

But you can continue to cling to my words, find errors in my text and try to make me look like an idiot.

I never said that we should stop helping the Ukraine. In fact, I think we should help them more than we currently do, however, you have to understand that the European (and US) governments also have other obligations, particularly to minimize the risk of a nuclear war. For this and other reasons, the Ukraine will probably also in the future not get every weapon system they may wish for. And there is also no endless supply of the weapon systems they get from the west, because most European countries have downsized their armies considerably during the last decades. The German armed forces for example have only a few hundred Leopard II tanks themselves and only about 140 Eurofighters, with probably not nearly all of them operational. So we cannot really afford to transfer significant numbers of those weapons to the Ukraine, if any at all (in the case of the fighters).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on July 15, 2023, 11:14
Double post
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on July 15, 2023, 11:21
In 1945, the troops of the USSR, mainly thanks to Ukrainian soldiers, very quickly occupied half of today's EU. And the Russians want to repeat it.

That was a totally different situation. The Soviets basically only had the German army as an opponent at that point, not the whole EU or NATO and they had massive help from the USA and the UK, partly by delivering large amounts of weapons and other goods to the Soviet Union and partly by attacking the Germans from the west at the same time. Not to mention the massive air strikes the western allies directed against the German cities.


But you can continue to cling to my words, find errors in my text and try to make me look like an idiot.

Stop posting nonsense like Merkel being a KGB agent, then you can avoid looking that way.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 15, 2023, 11:45
Unfortunately, I cannot support only what is beneficial only to Ukraine. I understand that even if Trump was the best choice for Ukraine,

Be careful what you wish for, because it may happen to you.
This is the new republican party. This is what you are rooting for 👇

(https://iroon.com/irtn/assets/faramarz_2019/photo/9359/12.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 12:09
And the proof that Russia is weak is for everyone to see: So far all objectives have failed and there are already internal rebellions where the Russian Wagner group rebelled against Russia and managed to reach very close to Moscow in less than 24 Hours.
For Ukrainians, yes, Russians are weak. But the EU countries are very much afraid of Russian orcs. That's why I wrote, add another 5 million fearless Ukrainians to the Russians and you will get not modern rotten Russia, but the USSR that was before.
Don't refer to the Wagner group, it was a show for people like you. Read my posts on this topic, I wrote who the Wagner group is and what it really was. With all the desire, the Wagner group would not have reached Moscow. It was a staged show.

I don't see any EU country or the US being afraid of Russia.
But sometimes it makes sense to just take a deep breath and make your decisions well-founded and well-considered, and also to consider the possible consequences.
I would also recommend that you take a deep breath too.
 
First and foremost, Ukraine is not served at all if the Russians unpack their tactical nuclear weapons. In view of what has happened so far, I think this is a more realistic scenario than the Russians standing outside Berlin.
Yes, I will write softer, you are right.
Tactical nuclear weapons won't wipe out all Ukrainians, but they can make Ukraine lose. But there is an opinion of military experts that tactical nuclear weapons will not help the Russians to stop the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Again, if the Armed Forces of Ukraine have aviation, long-range missiles and there are no bans on the use of weapons.
The Russians can only reach Berlin if they can subdue the Ukrainian soldier. This reality is not illusory.
I wrote about the figure of 5 million Ukrainian soldiers, and I will add that this is not a figure invented by me, this figure was voiced by some Ukrainian military experts. This figure includes the male population of Ukraine aged 18 to 60-65 years.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 12:15
I never said that we should stop helping the Ukraine. In fact, I think we should help them more than we currently do, however, you have to understand that the European (and US) governments also have other obligations, particularly to minimize the risk of a nuclear war. For this and other reasons, the Ukraine will probably also in the future not get every weapon system they may wish for. And there is also no endless supply of the weapon systems they get from the west, because most European countries have downsized their armies considerably during the last decades. The German armed forces for example have only a few hundred Leopard II tanks themselves and only about 140 Eurofighters, with probably not nearly all of them operational. So we cannot really afford to transfer significant numbers of those weapons to the Ukraine, if any at all (in the case of the fighters).
The President of Ukraine not so long ago asked the NATO countries to transfer to Ukraine only 1% of all the weapons that they have. I mean planes and tanks. While aviation is not visible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=742_H-WyCT4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=742_H-WyCT4)

The EU and NATO need to move to martial law and spend a lot of money on the war in Ukraine. The risk of nuclear war is either there or it is not. The Russians will either start a nuclear war or not. But the Russians will definitely try to occupy both Ukraine and half of the EU. The issue is resolved only on the battlefield.
I already wrote that the Russians are unlikely to decide to use nuclear weapons against NATO countries, because. in this case they will lose, but it will be a nuclear war. But if the Russians lose in a conventional war, this is the best way out for everyone.
The plans of the Russians are to mobilize the Ukrainians and occupy half of the EU without the use of nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 12:19
In 1945, the troops of the USSR, mainly thanks to Ukrainian soldiers, very quickly occupied half of today's EU. And the Russians want to repeat it.

That was a totally different situation. The Soviets basically only had the German army as an opponent at that point, not the whole EU or NATO and they had massive help from the USA and the UK, partly by delivering large amounts of weapons and other goods to the Soviet Union and partly by attacking the Germans from the west at the same time. Not to mention the massive air strikes the western allies directed against the German cities.


But you can continue to cling to my words, find errors in my text and try to make me look like an idiot.

Stop posting nonsense like Merkel being a KGB agent, then you can avoid looking that way.
Now Russia is supported by China and Iran. And do not forget that the armies of the EU countries are not Hitler's well-motivated, numerous and trained army. Are the Europeans ready to fight against a huge number of enemy soldiers?

I wrote a lot about Merkel at the beginning of this topic, you can search for the word Merkel and read my posts about her. My opinion hasn't changed, and it's not just my opinion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 12:21
Be careful what you wish for, because it may happen to you.
This is the new republican party. This is what you are rooting for 👇

(https://iroon.com/irtn/assets/faramarz_2019/photo/9359/12.jpg)

 ;D ;D ;D ;) ;) ;)

This is an internal showdown in the United States, I'm not against humor.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 15, 2023, 12:31
First and foremost, Ukraine is not served at all if the Russians unpack their tactical nuclear weapons. In view of what has happened so far, I think this is a more realistic scenario than the Russians standing outside Berlin.

I think the likelihood of that happening is extremely low, for multiple reasons. If Russians wanted and were able to use nukes, they probably would have done so already - after getting their butts kicked in Kharkiv and Kherson, or after one of the multiple strikes on targets in Crimea, or even inside Russia. There must have been important reasons why they couldn't do it.

Right now, it is just a tool to scare the public in the West. We just shouldn't pay attention to their threats, because they will always try to blackmail us. NATO must of course monitor their activity, but the public should just ignore Medvedev's nuclear threats, he makes many of them every month.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 15, 2023, 12:31

This is an internal showdown in the United States, I'm not against humor.

More humor for you:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 15, 2023, 12:55
You don't know history. In 1917-1922, Ukraine also fought with Russia for its independence. Ukraine lost because it did not receive assistance from European countries. So, for several years, the Russians turned on propaganda and made the Ukrainians fight for Russia.
The NATO countries are very afraid of the Russians, and this can be seen even in this forum. I am not sure that NATO will be able to fight effectively in the situation that I have drawn. You must understand that this situation is very real and well known in both Washington and Brussels, and that is why Ukraine is getting at least some help.

Before claim that "i don't know History" you should start reading the book i mention which is exactly a kind of Military history book that even Napoleon used and take notes for its wars. In fact is still used today in military academies or in Universities of politic science. where do you think the phrase divide to conquer comes from? The maxim "divide et impera" has been attributed to Philip II of Macedon. It was utilised by the Roman ruler Julius Caesar and the French emperor Napoleon (together with the maxim divide ut regnes) which you can learn all of it in the book that i mentioned.

You will also find other one: "There are only two ways to lead: you either divide and conquer, or you build and unite.

I don't know all the History but i do know that First World War was from 28 July 1914 till 11 November 1918. Knowing that FACT it's easy to think and understand why during 1917-1922 Ukraine was not assisted.

I think EU and NATO is very aware of the reality and that's why we all are helping Ukraine. But if you think "The NATO countries are very afraid of the Russians" well what can i say.... Again...i do recommend you to read the book that i mentioned and maybe you will understand better why Europe was the stage of World Wars. Probably with a little more Knowledge you find different perspective of things.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 15, 2023, 14:29
You don't know history. In 1917-1922, Ukraine also fought with Russia for its independence. Ukraine lost because it did not receive assistance from European countries. So, for several years, the Russians turned on propaganda and made the Ukrainians fight for Russia.
The NATO countries are very afraid of the Russians, and this can be seen even in this forum. I am not sure that NATO will be able to fight effectively in the situation that I have drawn. You must understand that this situation is very real and well known in both Washington and Brussels, and that is why Ukraine is getting at least some help.

Before claim that "i don't know History" you should start reading the book i mention which is exactly a kind of Military history book that even Napoleon used and take notes for its wars. In fact is still used today in military academies or in Universities of politic science. where do you think the phrase divide to conquer comes from? The maxim "divide et impera" has been attributed to Philip II of Macedon. It was utilised by the Roman ruler Julius Caesar and the French emperor Napoleon (together with the maxim divide ut regnes) which you can learn all of it in the book that i mentioned.

You will also find other one: "There are only two ways to lead: you either divide and conquer, or you build and unite.

I don't know all the History but i do know that First World War was from 28 July 1914 till 11 November 1918. Knowing that FACT it's easy to think and understand why during 1917-1922 Ukraine was not assisted.

I think EU and NATO is very aware of the reality and that's why we all are helping Ukraine. But if you think "The NATO countries are very afraid of the Russians" well what can i say.... Again...i do recommend you to read the book that i mentioned and maybe you will understand better why Europe was the stage of World Wars. Probably with a little more Knowledge you find different perspective of things.
I'm sorry. I didn't express myself correctly. I am not saying that you do not know anything or do not know the history of other wars. I wanted to say that you do not know the whole history of the wars of the Ukrainian people against the Russians.

In 2022, computer simulations of the consequences of the Russian offensive on Poland were carried out, the results showed that in only 3 days the Polish troops would have been forced to withdraw across the Vistula River.

As for the events of 100 years ago, this is probably a separate issue. I cited that war against Russia as an example of the fact that the Ukrainians, after the defeat, eventually submitted to the Russian occupiers. In those years, Russia was part of Triple Entente, which is probably why Ukraine was not provided with assistance. For Ukraine, this had disastrous consequences.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 15, 2023, 17:41
From Zelensky himself 2 days ago ...

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1679164069972934657

Quote
A meaningful, powerful meeting with President of the United States Joseph Biden in Vilnius.

We discussed in detail the situation on the frontline, our capabilities, further long-term defense cooperation, and internal Russian processes given the recent events.

The United States has stood side by side with Ukraine throughout our defense against aggression. We appreciate it tremendously. Thank you personally to
@POTUS, the Congress and the American people for the vitally important assistance - military, financial, political - provided to Ukraine since the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 15, 2023, 17:44
Quote from: Roscoe link=topic=37652.msg589667#msg58


And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
They give Ukrainians the weapons, some controversial ones included, teach them how to use them, and tell them where to aim them at by providing intelligence.



Yes. And I imagine US intelligence is possibly the most priceless aid of all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 16, 2023, 02:22
From Zelensky himself 2 days ago ...

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1679164069972934657

Quote
A meaningful, powerful meeting with President of the United States Joseph Biden in Vilnius.

We discussed in detail the situation on the frontline, our capabilities, further long-term defense cooperation, and internal Russian processes given the recent events.

The United States has stood side by side with Ukraine throughout our defense against aggression. We appreciate it tremendously. Thank you personally to
@POTUS, the Congress and the American people for the vitally important assistance - military, financial, political - provided to Ukraine since the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion.

You know, it is very difficult to translate anything from a diplomatic language. Zelenskyy cannot say anything differently, his position is diplomatic. Zelenskyy spoke exactly the same way to Trump when he was president. The president is the last person in Ukraine who will openly say what he thinks, usually this is a very rare occurrence. Therefore, it is better to read Zaluzhnyi, he speaks in an understandable, non-diplomatic language.

And read what Boris Johnson says, on the previous page I gave a link to his speech. And Johnson is friends with Zelenskyy, I think that Zelenskyy could even ask Johnson to say something that Zelenskyy cannot say, in connection with his presidential position.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 16, 2023, 02:24
Quote from: Roscoe link=topic=37652.msg589667#msg58


And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
They give Ukrainians the weapons, some controversial ones included, teach them how to use them, and tell them where to aim them at by providing intelligence.



Yes. And I imagine US intelligence is possibly the most priceless aid of all.
Where was this intelligence in 2014, when the Russians were implementing the planned destabilization in Ukraine with the subsequent occupation of Crimea and Donbass.
And in 2022, any fool knew that the Russians would launch an offensive, everyone saw that they brought a lot of troops to the Ukrainian border.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 16, 2023, 03:18
According to Ukrainian military analysts, the NATO summit ended with zero results for Ukraine. Ukraine was sent at the rate of the Russian warship.

(https://ubr.ua/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/ibychvkryuou.jpg)

The media wrote that Zelenskyy did not want to go to this summit at all, but in the end he was probably persuaded by cunning democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 16, 2023, 03:27
Quote from: Roscoe link=topic=37652.msg589667#msg58


And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
They give Ukrainians the weapons, some controversial ones included, teach them how to use them, and tell them where to aim them at by providing intelligence.




Yes. And I imagine US intelligence is possibly the most priceless aid of all.
Where was this intelligence in 2014, when the Russians were implementing the planned destabilization in Ukraine with the subsequent occupation of Crimea and Donbass.
And in 2022, any fool knew that the Russians would launch an offensive, everyone saw that they brought a lot of troops to the Ukrainian border.

I am getting the feeling Stoker, that you don't really understand or fully appreciate the full extent of US intelligence. (or the sophistication of their spy satellites, for example)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 16, 2023, 03:44
Quote from: Roscoe link=topic=37652.msg589667#msg58


And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
They give Ukrainians the weapons, some controversial ones included, teach them how to use them, and tell them where to aim them at by providing intelligence.




Yes. And I imagine US intelligence is possibly the most priceless aid of all.
Where was this intelligence in 2014, when the Russians were implementing the planned destabilization in Ukraine with the subsequent occupation of Crimea and Donbass.
And in 2022, any fool knew that the Russians would launch an offensive, everyone saw that they brought a lot of troops to the Ukrainian border.

I am getting the feeling Stoker, that you don't really understand or fully appreciate the full extent of US intelligence. (or the sophistication of their spy satellites, for example)
Well, if you are talking about satellites, of course they are. I wrote about the excellently executed terrorist operation by the Russians to seize Crimea and eastern Ukraine in 2014. There was information that a whole department in the CIA was eventually fired.
So, besides looking at images from satellites, does intelligence know anything else? I got the impression that US intelligence does not understand what it receives money for.
But of course, military intelligence is not bad now following the Russian troops and reporting information to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

But how could you miss the preparation of the Russians in 2013 and do nothing .... Democrats ....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 16, 2023, 15:01
More humor with those politicians-who-are-not-helping-Ukraine:

https://youtu.be/ZVg62_lSbmE

Funny to see Sunak and Meloni, checking exactly this video during the recent NATO summit  :D

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/07/12/11/73124471-0-image-a-26_1689158266272.jpg)

Note the also funny name of this Ukrainian channel: "Saint Javelin".
"Saint Javelin", named after the FGM-148 Javelin, or Advanced Anti-Tank Weapon System-Medium, supplied to Ukraine by the Biden administration. It's so effective that it was blessed into sainthood.  ;)

PS. Something extra from the same channel:
https://youtube.com/shorts/tBXHJHVrGqQ
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 16, 2023, 15:46
The Democrats slowly began to understand what Valerii Zaluzhnyi had told them. Today, Biden gave permission to train Ukrainian pilots on the F16. Well, let's see when the Democrats will give F16 to Ukraine and in what quantity .....

Weapons are good, but they are few, they give little! And worst of all, the Democrats won't allow it to be used effectively.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 16, 2023, 15:53
(https://telegraf.com.ua/static/storage/originals/f/7b/670db017471e695ac00ad73d172a67bf.jpg)

Through this bridge, Russian terrorists supply 30% of weapons and soldiers to the occupied territory of Ukraine. The Democrats will not allow this bridge to be destroyed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 16, 2023, 15:58
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRD0NPTvWiFBTOr4pNcsanoeRPL7pb-B7ebtcRdAHOlLh69YY1I66E_nyNATYFXh4Td6uE&usqp=CAU)

And therefore, the bridge is supplied with 70% of weapons to Russian terrorists on the territory of Ukraine. Democrats also do not allow this bridge to be liquidated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 16, 2023, 18:59
Quote from: Roscoe link=topic=37652.msg589667#msg58


And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
They give Ukrainians the weapons, some controversial ones included, teach them how to use them, and tell them where to aim them at by providing intelligence.




Yes. And I imagine US intelligence is possibly the most priceless aid of all.
Where was this intelligence in 2014, when the Russians were implementing the planned destabilization in Ukraine with the subsequent occupation of Crimea and Donbass.
And in 2022, any fool knew that the Russians would launch an offensive, everyone saw that they brought a lot of troops to the Ukrainian border.

I am getting the feeling Stoker, that you don't really understand or fully appreciate the full extent of US intelligence. (or the sophistication of their spy satellites, for example)
Well, if you are talking about satellites, of course they are. I wrote about the excellently executed terrorist operation by the Russians to seize Crimea and eastern Ukraine in 2014. There was information that a whole department in the CIA was eventually fired.
So, besides looking at images from satellites, does intelligence know anything else? I got the impression that US intelligence does not understand what it receives money for.
But of course, military intelligence is not bad now following the Russian troops and reporting information to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

But how could you miss the preparation of the Russians in 2013 and do nothing .... Democrats ....

Stoker, I have deliberately ignored your references to 2013/4 in the past couple of pages. You do understand what #whataboutism is and why it's a bad thing to do, don't you?

Its interesting that its also been claimed to be a russian defence. From wiki:

Writing for Bloomberg News , Leonid Bershidsky called whataboutism a "Russian tradition", while The New Yorker described the technique as "a strategy of false moral equivalences". Julia Ioffe called whataboutism a "sacred Russian tactic", and compared it to accusing the pot of calling the kettle black.


Also Trump uses it, Fox News uses it, and a lot of negative people also use it to hide or distract from the truth or prevent others from solving current issues.

For example, Roscoe said USA provides Ukraine with their intelligence (present time), and I replied that it must be a priceless aid to have. And then you came along and interrupted, talking about something that happened a decade ago. That is Whataboutism.

The other thing that you're doing that is driving me crazy is all this labelling. ie. in this case, democrats, as if its a bad thing. You do realize that a lot of the Joint Chiefs who sit in the situation room and advise the president are republicans, don't you?   So quit with the labelling. Its distracting, negative, incorrect, and harmful. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 16, 2023, 22:04
Through this bridge, Russian terrorists supply 30% of weapons and soldiers to the occupied territory of Ukraine. The Democrats will not allow this bridge to be destroyed.

There are reports from many sources that a part of the bridge collapsed at night.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 02:40
Quote from: Roscoe link=topic=37652.msg589667#msg58


And let's be very clear, without NATO (and mainly USA) support, Ukraine was Russian territory by now.
They give Ukrainians the weapons, some controversial ones included, teach them how to use them, and tell them where to aim them at by providing intelligence.




Yes. And I imagine US intelligence is possibly the most priceless aid of all.
Where was this intelligence in 2014, when the Russians were implementing the planned destabilization in Ukraine with the subsequent occupation of Crimea and Donbass.
And in 2022, any fool knew that the Russians would launch an offensive, everyone saw that they brought a lot of troops to the Ukrainian border.

I am getting the feeling Stoker, that you don't really understand or fully appreciate the full extent of US intelligence. (or the sophistication of their spy satellites, for example)
Well, if you are talking about satellites, of course they are. I wrote about the excellently executed terrorist operation by the Russians to seize Crimea and eastern Ukraine in 2014. There was information that a whole department in the CIA was eventually fired.
So, besides looking at images from satellites, does intelligence know anything else? I got the impression that US intelligence does not understand what it receives money for.
But of course, military intelligence is not bad now following the Russian troops and reporting information to the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

But how could you miss the preparation of the Russians in 2013 and do nothing .... Democrats ....

Stoker, I have deliberately ignored your references to 2013/4 in the past couple of pages. You do understand what #whataboutism is and why it's a bad thing to do, don't you?

Its interesting that its also been claimed to be a russian defence. From wiki:

Writing for Bloomberg News , Leonid Bershidsky called whataboutism a "Russian tradition", while The New Yorker described the technique as "a strategy of false moral equivalences". Julia Ioffe called whataboutism a "sacred Russian tactic", and compared it to accusing the pot of calling the kettle black.


Also Trump uses it, Fox News uses it, and a lot of negative people also use it to hide or distract from the truth or prevent others from solving current issues.

For example, Roscoe said USA provides Ukraine with their intelligence (present time), and I replied that it must be a priceless aid to have. And then you came along and interrupted, talking about something that happened a decade ago. That is Whataboutism.

The other thing that you're doing that is driving me crazy is all this labelling. ie. in this case, democrats, as if its a bad thing. You do realize that a lot of the Joint Chiefs who sit in the situation room and advise the president are republicans, don't you?   So quit with the labelling. Its distracting, negative, incorrect, and harmful.
+100
I didn't know there was such a term as Whataboutism.
I followed the principle that everyone talks about what only bothers him.
Well, I'll try not to use the word Democrats anymore.
I agree with the criticism leveled at me.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 02:47
Through this bridge, Russian terrorists supply 30% of weapons and soldiers to the occupied territory of Ukraine. The Democrats will not allow this bridge to be destroyed.

There are reports from many sources that a part of the bridge collapsed at night.
+100
If Valerii Zaluzhnyi said that he would shoot where he needed to shoot, then he would definitely shoot. Which is what happened tonight. I see that the strikes were carried out on the road bridge, by sea drones. Of course, missile strikes would have done more destruction, but as I already wrote, Ukraine is not allowed to fire non-Ukrainian missiles at Crimea. I think this is just the beginning. These damages to the road bridge stopped the flow of Russian cars towards the Crimea through this bridge. With this flow of cars, the Russians protected (covered) the bridge with the help of their women and children. The Armed Forces of Ukraine are not the Russian army and do not shoot at places where civilians gather. This was used by Russian terrorists. According to the same principle, the Russian army always fights, hiding behind women and children. I think that there will still be shelling of the bridge, more serious, and definitely on the railway bridge too.
Now the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be able to make more attacks on both the road bridge and the railway.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1680823077616115713

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 03:26
The reconnaissance group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is liquidating a Russian military vehicle.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1680845480740151297
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 08:33
Trump describes how he could solve Russia-Ukraine conflict in 24 hours
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours)

In his pre-election populism, Trump hints that he can give Ukraine more weapons than they are currently giving.

 :o :-\ >:( :'( :-\

To begin with, there is no conflict in Ukraine, but there is a military and terrorist attack by Russia on Ukraine with the aim of destroying Ukraine and Ukrainians. The Fox channel should stop relaying Russian propaganda.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 17, 2023, 10:13
Trump describes how he could solve Russia-Ukraine conflict in 24 hours
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours)

In his pre-election populism, Trump hints that he can give Ukraine more weapons than they are currently giving.

 :o :-\ >:( :'( :-\

To begin with, there is no conflict in Ukraine, but there is a military and terrorist attack by Russia on Ukraine with the aim of destroying Ukraine and Ukrainians. The Fox channel should stop relaying Russian propaganda.

Did you realize what he said?

"I know Zelenskyy very well, and I know Putin very well, even better. And I had a good relationship, very good with both of them. I would tell Zelenskyy, no more. You got to make a deal. I would tell Putin, if you don't make a deal, we're going to give him a lot. We're going to [give Ukraine] more than they ever got if we have to. I will have the deal done in one day. One day"


Translation: he will first ask Zelensky to give up Ukrainian lands as part of the "deal". And only if putin doesn't agree, he will support Ukraine.

In other words, trump doesn't support Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity and he will give putin exactly what he wants: Ukrainian lands.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 11:02
Trump describes how he could solve Russia-Ukraine conflict in 24 hours
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours)

In his pre-election populism, Trump hints that he can give Ukraine more weapons than they are currently giving.

 :o :-\ >:( :'( :-\

To begin with, there is no conflict in Ukraine, but there is a military and terrorist attack by Russia on Ukraine with the aim of destroying Ukraine and Ukrainians. The Fox channel should stop relaying Russian propaganda.

Did you realize what he said?

"I know Zelenskyy very well, and I know Putin very well, even better. And I had a good relationship, very good with both of them. I would tell Zelenskyy, no more. You got to make a deal. I would tell Putin, if you don't make a deal, we're going to give him a lot. We're going to [give Ukraine] more than they ever got if we have to. I will have the deal done in one day. One day"


Translation: he will first ask Zelensky to give up Ukrainian lands as part of the "deal". And only if putin doesn't agree, he will support Ukraine.

In other words, trump doesn't support Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity and he will give putin exactly what he wants: Ukrainian lands.  ::)
Trump said so that the interpretation of the meaning of what was said may be different :). If another person, a normal person, said this, it would be interesting.
I can interpret his proposal like this, Zelenskyy is telling putin to get Russia out of all of Ukraine. In response, putin does not agree. So Trump is giving a lot of weapons to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 11:11
I do not want Trump to be the President of the United States, even if it is known that he is the best president for Ukraine. I do not think only in the interests of Ukraine. I believe that no normal country deserves a president like Trump.
But I want to say this, and this has already been said by many politicians during the previous Trump campaign. Trump during the election campaign is not the Trump who becomes president, these are two different Trumps. Populism and self-promotion are one thing, and the office of president is another. During the Trump administration, I did not see any special idiotic decisions. And I even liked his policy towards the EU. Trump was also the first to give Ukraine javelins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FGM-148_Javelin)).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 17, 2023, 11:36

I can interpret his proposal like this, Zelenskyy is telling putin to get Russia out of all of Ukraine. In response, putin does not agree. So Trump is giving a lot of weapons to Ukraine.

This is wishful thinking. Look it up.  ;)

He clearly said that he will first tell Zelensky "no more".
In other words: no more fight to free up the occupied territories.

But hey... feel free to twist trump's words until they fit your pre-conceived opinions. It will not change the reality that he is bad news for Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 13:43
More humor with those politicians-who-are-not-helping-Ukraine:
Funny to see Sunak and Meloni, checking exactly this video during the recent NATO summit  :D
Note the also funny name of this Ukrainian channel: "Saint Javelin".
"Saint Javelin", named after the FGM-148 Javelin, or Advanced Anti-Tank Weapon System-Medium, supplied to Ukraine by the Biden administration. It's so effective that it was blessed into sainthood.  ;)

PS. Something extra from the same channel:
https://youtube.com/shorts/tBXHJHVrGqQ

How do we know what they are watching on their smartphone? But the links are cool, yes.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 13:44
He clearly said that he will first tell Zelensky "no more".
In other words: no more fight to free up the occupied territories.
This is your interpretation of Trump's words. In fact, in that interview to which I gave a link, he did not say that Ukraine should give up its territory to the Russians.

Trump is a Republican, you think too badly of the Republicans.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 17, 2023, 15:17
He clearly said that he will first tell Zelensky "no more".
In other words: no more fight to free up the occupied territories.
This is your interpretation of Trump's words. In fact, in that interview to which I gave a link, he did not say that Ukraine should give up its territory to the Russians.

Trump is a Republican, you think too badly of the Republicans.  ;D ;D ;D

Trump is the American Putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on July 17, 2023, 15:31
He clearly said that he will first tell Zelensky "no more".
In other words: no more fight to free up the occupied territories.
This is your interpretation of Trump's words. In fact, in that interview to which I gave a link, he did not say that Ukraine should give up its territory to the Russians.

Trump is a Republican, you think too badly of the Republicans.  ;D ;D ;D

Trump is the American Putin.

Trump was a terrible president, but that does not make him the American Putin.

During his term of being president, he didn't poison or imprison politicians of the opposition or journalists, he didn't silence nearly all opposing voices and he didn't invade a neigbouring country (or any country for that matter).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 17, 2023, 15:34

Trump is a Republican, you think too badly of the Republicans.  ;D ;D ;D
No. As I said, the pre-MAGA true conservative Republicans (the ones you liked) were fine.
Today's nationalist-populist and isolationist MAGA Republicans (the ones you think you like) are a disgrace.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 17, 2023, 16:30
He clearly said that he will first tell Zelensky "no more".
In other words: no more fight to free up the occupied territories.
This is your interpretation of Trump's words. In fact, in that interview to which I gave a link, he did not say that Ukraine should give up its territory to the Russians.

Trump is a Republican, you think too badly of the Republicans.  ;D ;D ;D

Trump is the American Putin.

Trump was a terrible president, but that does not make him the American Putin.

During his term of being president, he didn't poison or imprison politicians of the opposition or journalists, he didn't silence nearly all opposing voices and he didn't invade a neigbouring country (or any country for that matter).

That's right. But he has the same problem with journalists who disagree with him as Putin does.
He would also like to rebuild the legal system in his favor, like Putin.
There are too many parallels.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 16:54
He clearly said that he will first tell Zelensky "no more".
In other words: no more fight to free up the occupied territories.
This is your interpretation of Trump's words. In fact, in that interview to which I gave a link, he did not say that Ukraine should give up its territory to the Russians.

Trump is a Republican, you think too badly of the Republicans.  ;D ;D ;D

Trump is the American Putin.
I already wrote, I liked Trump because he did not allow Merkel to help putin and russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 17, 2023, 16:58
I watch the news on US TV channels, I see one-sided coverage of the explosion of the Crimean bridge. They talk about some kind of 2 dead rashists, and that's it. Why not tell people that this bridge was illegally built by the Russians, that it is a military facility through which the Russians deliver hundreds of thousands of shells to Ukraine and every day they kill hundreds of women and children, destroy houses and cities. But the media say that this is just a bridge and that two Russians who illegally crossed the Ukrainian border on this bridge died.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 17, 2023, 17:16
I find mind boggling that so many russians traveled to enjoy the summer in Crimean resorts with kids and families.
What was in their heads? Didn't they realize it's an actual war zone?
Now that the bridge is non-functional, they must take an even riskier route home, through Mariupol and witness the real horrors of their regime.

Who on this forum would travel to a Crimean resort, these days, even assuming that your whole trip + accomodation + food is paid for?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on July 17, 2023, 18:39
Who on this forum would travel to a Crimean resort, these days, even assuming that your whole trip + accomodation + food is paid for?

When the time comes, I will certainly want to go to NAFO's Crimea Beach Party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVg62_lSbmE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVg62_lSbmE)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 17, 2023, 20:17
I watch the news on US TV channels, I see one-sided coverage of the explosion of the Crimean bridge. They talk about some kind of 2 dead rashists, and that's it. Why not tell people that this bridge was illegally built by the Russians, that it is a military facility through which the Russians deliver hundreds of thousands of shells to Ukraine and every day they kill hundreds of women and children, destroy houses and cities. But the media say that this is just a bridge and that two Russians who illegally crossed the Ukrainian border on this bridge died.

This was CNN's report:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/17/europe/crimea-bridge-putin-explainer-intl/index.html


"Why the Crimean Bridge is so important to Vladimir Putin.

The Crimean Bridge, which links the annexed peninsula to mainland Russia, was hit by two strikes early Monday in an attack a Ukrainian security official told CNN Kyiv was responsible for.

The crossing is a vital artery for supplying Russia’s ongoing war on Ukraine, allowing people and goods to flow into the Ukrainian territories that Moscow has occupied in the south and east of the country.

Also known as the Kerch Bridge, it holds personal value for Russian President Vladimir Putin. In the Kremlin narrative it marks the “reunification” of Crimea with the Russian mainland.

Monday’s attack on the crossing was the second since Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine – and Kyiv has reiterated that it hopes to reclaim the peninsula in its ongoing counteroffensive.

Here’s what you need to know:

Why is the bridge so important to Russia?
The Kerch Bridge is strategically important because it links Russia’s Krasnodar region with Crimea, which was illegally annexed by Russia from Ukraine in 2014.


It also has huge symbolic importance for Russia, which built the 12-mile bridge – the longest in Europe – at a cost of around $3.7 billion. It was the physical expression of Putin’s objective to take over Ukraine and bind it to Russia forever.

 
" plus more ...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 17, 2023, 20:42
Trump describes how he could solve Russia-Ukraine conflict in 24 hours
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours)

In his pre-election populism, Trump hints that he can give Ukraine more weapons than they are currently giving.

 :o :-\ >:( :'( :-\

To begin with, there is no conflict in Ukraine, but there is a military and terrorist attack by Russia on Ukraine with the aim of destroying Ukraine and Ukrainians. The Fox channel should stop relaying Russian propaganda.

Did you realize what he said?

"I know Zelenskyy very well, and I know Putin very well, even better. And I had a good relationship, very good with both of them. I would tell Zelenskyy, no more. You got to make a deal. I would tell Putin, if you don't make a deal, we're going to give him a lot. We're going to [give Ukraine] more than they ever got if we have to. I will have the deal done in one day. One day"


Translation: he will first ask Zelensky to give up Ukrainian lands as part of the "deal". And only if putin doesn't agree, he will support Ukraine.

In other words, trump doesn't support Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity and he will give putin exactly what he wants: Ukrainian lands.  ::)
Trump said so that the interpretation of the meaning of what was said may be different :). If another person, a normal person, said this, it would be interesting.
I can interpret his proposal like this, Zelenskyy is telling putin to get Russia out of all of Ukraine. In response, putin does not agree. So Trump is giving a lot of weapons to Ukraine.

I think the emphasis is that he would force them to make a deal.

But the only deal that putin would accept would be land from Ukraine. If Ukraine refuses, then what? Withdraw aid from Ukraine? Either way, putin wins.

trump is crafty with all his statements. He has learnt from years of experience to always be a bit ambiguous with what his says, so he can't be pinned down to something specific later.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 18, 2023, 02:02
I find mind boggling that so many russians traveled to enjoy the summer in Crimean resorts with kids and families.
What was in their heads? Didn't they realize it's an actual war zone?
Now that the bridge is non-functional, they must take an even riskier route home, through Mariupol and witness the real horrors of their regime.

Who on this forum would travel to a Crimean resort, these days, even assuming that your whole trip + accomodation + food is paid for?
This is what I constantly write about, almost all Russians are rashists and they all like that the Russian empire has occupied the Crimea. This is the only thing they are proud of in their Russian life. Therefore, no risks will stop them.
In addition, Ukraine warned that it would shoot at the Crimean bridge. And not only on the bridge, Ukraine is shooting all over Crimea. In any other normal country, civilians would not be allowed to go not only to the bridge, but also to the Crimea. But the Russians had a goal to cover the Crimean bridge with a human shield.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 18, 2023, 02:07
I watch the news on US TV channels, I see one-sided coverage of the explosion of the Crimean bridge. They talk about some kind of 2 dead rashists, and that's it. Why not tell people that this bridge was illegally built by the Russians, that it is a military facility through which the Russians deliver hundreds of thousands of shells to Ukraine and every day they kill hundreds of women and children, destroy houses and cities. But the media say that this is just a bridge and that two Russians who illegally crossed the Ukrainian border on this bridge died.

This was CNN's report:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/17/europe/crimea-bridge-putin-explainer-intl/index.html


"Why the Crimean Bridge is so important to Vladimir Putin.

The Crimean Bridge, which links the annexed peninsula to mainland Russia, was hit by two strikes early Monday in an attack a Ukrainian security official told CNN Kyiv was responsible for.

The crossing is a vital artery for supplying Russia’s ongoing war on Ukraine, allowing people and goods to flow into the Ukrainian territories that Moscow has occupied in the south and east of the country.

Also known as the Kerch Bridge, it holds personal value for Russian President Vladimir Putin. In the Kremlin narrative it marks the “reunification” of Crimea with the Russian mainland.

Monday’s attack on the crossing was the second since Putin launched his full-scale invasion of Ukraine – and Kyiv has reiterated that it hopes to reclaim the peninsula in its ongoing counteroffensive.

Here’s what you need to know:

Why is the bridge so important to Russia?
The Kerch Bridge is strategically important because it links Russia’s Krasnodar region with Crimea, which was illegally annexed by Russia from Ukraine in 2014.


It also has huge symbolic importance for Russia, which built the 12-mile bridge – the longest in Europe – at a cost of around $3.7 billion. It was the physical expression of Putin’s objective to take over Ukraine and bind it to Russia forever.

 
" plus more ...
Well, at least they told the truth on SNN....
The bridge was built for the sole purpose of making Crimea a military base and threatening not only Ukraine but the entire Mediterranean.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 18, 2023, 05:11
Zelensky tells a joke ...

https://twitter.com/yasminalombaert/status/1604022699763851264
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 18, 2023, 06:50
Zelensky tells a joke ...

https://twitter.com/yasminalombaert/status/1604022699763851264 (https://twitter.com/yasminalombaert/status/1604022699763851264)
Oh yes, Zelenskyy is famous comedian, here he plays the piano well  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovg7LVtxoNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovg7LVtxoNU)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 18, 2023, 06:54
Now that the bridge is non-functional, they must take an even riskier route home, through Mariupol and witness the real horrors of their regime.
Yesterday there was already a traffic jam on that bypass road for 25 km. There are Russian checkpoints everywhere and there are mines everywhere on the road. The attraction is great!
But that's not all, although the Allies do not give the Armed Forces of Ukraine aviation, nevertheless, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are slowly moving towards the Sea of Azov in the Zaporizhzhia region. And as soon as the Armed Forces of Ukraine approach the land corridor within the range of an artillery shot, this road will be under constant fire control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. So the Russians don't have much time left to escape from the Ukrainian Crimea.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 18, 2023, 14:27
Zelensky tells a joke ...

https://twitter.com/yasminalombaert/status/1604022699763851264 (https://twitter.com/yasminalombaert/status/1604022699763851264)
Oh yes, Zelenskyy is famous comedian, here he plays the piano well  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovg7LVtxoNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovg7LVtxoNU)

hahahahha rofl

He is hilarious.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 18, 2023, 14:31
well, he's done it again - this time with ancient Israeli antiquities

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/1681238414522294272

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on July 18, 2023, 21:37
Now that the bridge is non-functional, they must take an even riskier route home, through Mariupol and witness the real horrors of their regime.
Yesterday there was already a traffic jam on that bypass road for 25 km. There are Russian checkpoints everywhere and there are mines everywhere on the road. The attraction is great!
But that's not all, although the Allies do not give the Armed Forces of Ukraine aviation, nevertheless, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are slowly moving towards the Sea of Azov in the Zaporizhzhia region. And as soon as the Armed Forces of Ukraine approach the land corridor within the range of an artillery shot, this road will be under constant fire control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. So the Russians don't have much time left to escape from the Ukrainian Crimea.

And in the meanwhile in the reality word that you will ignore like you will ignore any tragedy that the clown pulled his people into as long as he is fighting Russians , the population of Ukraine went from 43M to under 29M and 30 000 people are leaving the country on daily basis according to official Ukrainian data. And anyone who lived trough a war personally knows that refugees tend to start a new life and mostly never come back. 

So that Jokerman decided to destroy his own nation instead of choosing neutrality in the game between 2 imperialistic predator states where one is destroying him and the other one is literally giving him the finger and watching him being destroyed while pretending to support him by throwing him breadcrumbs instead of real help because they worry about their own asses in front of the enemy they convinced him is weak. 

Kyiv will more likely end up under nuclear cloud than Crimea will get back under Ukrainian jurisdiction and everyone with a gram of unwashed brain knows that.

You can continue with fairy-tails now, sorry for the interruption.   
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 19, 2023, 02:44
Lizard, I do not read Russian trolls, I have to send you to ignore. Goodbye.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 19, 2023, 04:43
U.S. to announce $1.3 bln in military aid for Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-announce-13-bln-military-aid-ukraine-sources-2023-07-18/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-announce-13-bln-military-aid-ukraine-sources-2023-07-18/)

WASHINGTON, July 18 (Reuters) - The United States will announce a new pledge to buy $1.3 billion worth of military aid for Kyiv in its conflict with Russia in the coming days, two U.S. officials said.

The previously unreported weapons package includes air defenses, counter-drone systems, exploding drones and ammunition, one of the U.S. officials said.

The United States is using funds in its Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative (USAI) program, which allow President Joe Biden's administration to buy weapons from industry rather than pull from U.S. weapons stocks.

Among the systems and ammunition the U.S. plans to buy for Kyiv are counter-air defenses made by L3Harris Technologies (LHX.N) called the Vehicle-Agnostic Modular Palletized ISR Rocket Equipment or VAMPIRE, one of the officials said.

Also included are two different types of loitering munitions, the Phoenix Ghost drone made by AVEVEX, a private company in California, and the Switchblade, made by AeroVironment Inc (AVAV.O).

Additionally, a person briefed on the matter said Ukraine will get a significant number of counter-drone systems made by Australia's DroneShield Ltd (DRO.AX) alongside radars, sensors and analysis systems.

The U.S. Department of Defense's impending announcement of the security assistance to Ukraine comes alongside a virtual meeting on Tuesday of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, a gathering of allies assisting Kyiv as Ukraine presses its counteroffensive against Russian invasion forces.

Delivery of the weapons and systems depends on their availability and production timeline. The contents and value of the package may also change up until the announcement.

The Pentagon has provided more than $10.8 billion in security assistance for Ukraine under the USAI in fiscal 2023, in seven separate tranches. The planned package would be the eighth. In the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, 2022, Washington put $6.3 billion worth of USAI funds to work buying for Ukraine's defense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 19, 2023, 05:36
Trump describes how he could solve Russia-Ukraine conflict in 24 hours
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-describes-how-he-could-solve-russia-ukraine-conflict-24-hours)

In his pre-election populism, Trump hints that he can give Ukraine more weapons than they are currently giving.

 :o :-\ >:( :'( :-\

To begin with, there is no conflict in Ukraine, but there is a military and terrorist attack by Russia on Ukraine with the aim of destroying Ukraine and Ukrainians. The Fox channel should stop relaying Russian propaganda.

Did you realize what he said?

"I know Zelenskyy very well, and I know Putin very well, even better. And I had a good relationship, very good with both of them. I would tell Zelenskyy, no more. You got to make a deal. I would tell Putin, if you don't make a deal, we're going to give him a lot. We're going to [give Ukraine] more than they ever got if we have to. I will have the deal done in one day. One day"


Translation: he will first ask Zelensky to give up Ukrainian lands as part of the "deal". And only if putin doesn't agree, he will support Ukraine.

In other words, trump doesn't support Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity and he will give putin exactly what he wants: Ukrainian lands.  ::)
Trump said so that the interpretation of the meaning of what was said may be different :). If another person, a normal person, said this, it would be interesting.
I can interpret his proposal like this, Zelenskyy is telling putin to get Russia out of all of Ukraine. In response, putin does not agree. So Trump is giving a lot of weapons to Ukraine.

I think the emphasis is that he would force them to make a deal.

But the only deal that putin would accept would be land from Ukraine. If Ukraine refuses, then what? Withdraw aid from Ukraine? Either way, putin wins.

trump is crafty with all his statements. He has learnt from years of experience to always be a bit ambiguous with what his says, so he can't be pinned down to something specific later.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/17/trump-ukraine-bartiromo/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/17/trump-ukraine-bartiromo/)

Trump’s plan to end the war in Ukraine is ... something

Former president Donald Trump’s interview with Fox News on Sunday commenced an all-out freakout among the GOP’s Ukraine funding skeptics. They interpreted his comments as suddenly coming out in favor of potentially sending Ukraine even more than the Biden administration has.

That would be a remarkable turnabout for Trump, who just last week accused the administration of fomenting World War III by giving Ukraine cluster munitions.

But that doesn’t appear to be what Trump really said. What he did put forward was a remarkably simplistic — even nonsensical — plan to end the conflict.

Trump’s frequent boast that he would end the war within 24 hours is basically his new “build the wall and make Mexico pay for it” from 2016. It’s utterly impractical, lacks detail and is destined to be a broken promise should he assume power again. It’s a promise without anything to back it. But it’s also something his supporters seem to eat up.

He’s rarely been pressed on the details. But on Sunday, none other than his longtime Fox ally Maria Bartiromo stepped up to do just that.

And it was revealing.

Bartiromo asked Trump how he would end the war within 24 hours, and he deflected, talking about how he respected Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for not criticizing him over the situation that led to Trump’s first impeachment. But then Bartiromo sought to bring the conversation back to the question:

BARTIROMO: Well, that’s not going to be enough for Putin to stop bombing Ukraine.
TRUMP: No, no, no. No, I’m not saying that. I -- what I’m saying is that I know Zelensky very well, and I know [Russian President Vladimir] Putin very well, even better. And I had a good relationship, very good, with both of them.
I would tell Zelensky: No more. You got to make a deal. I would tell Putin: If you don’t make a deal, we’re going to give them a lot. We’re going to give them more than they ever got, if we have to.
I will have the deal done in one day, one day.
The Ukraine funding skeptics have, of course, focused on the part about giving Ukraine “more than they ever got.” (Florida Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis’s political action committee played up that comment.) What Trump in fact seemed to be saying was that he was going to tell that to Putin while telling Zelensky the opposite: that Ukraine was going to be cut off.

He’s talking about playing hardball. The idea is that he’s going to bluff to both sides — or at least one side (you pick which) — until they reach a deal.

Trump’s campaign responded to the DeSantis PAC by saying, “Only dumb idiots on flailing campaigns would be so desperate to make up words that weren’t even spoken.”

This is not the most robust plan to end a war. It is not three-dimensional chess from the author of “The Art of the Deal.”

Imagine a situation in which Trump were to come into office, enact this strategy, and Russia and Ukraine didn’t come to an agreement. Trump would then be put in the position of everyone knowing which side he was bluffing in favor of, or if he was bluffing with both sides.

More than that, it’s Trump telling everyone that’s he’s going to bluff before the negotiations ever begin. Generally speaking, bluffs work best when the other side doesn’t know that’s what you are doing. The most charitable version would be that Trump is going to make the two sides guess which one he’s bluffing to.

Credit to Bartiromo for actually getting Trump to offer something more about a promise that had been, up to this point, a platitude without a plan. What she revealed was nothing amounting to a thoroughly considered course of action — just a bluff that she, deliberately or not, called.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 19, 2023, 05:49
"Pentagon Says Conditions for Transferring F-16s to Ukraine "Not Ideal" Right Now.
The US believes that Russia's current air defence and air force capabilities create "not ideal conditions" for supplying Ukraine with US-made F-16 fighter jets at this time.

Lieutenant General Douglas Sims, Director of Operations of the US Joint Staff, noted at a briefing that the conditions under which combat operations take place change over time, "but the conditions right now for the employment of the F-16s are probably not ideal".

"I mean, the Russians still possess some air defense capability. They have air capability. And the number of F-16s that would be provided may not be perfect for what's going on right now," he said.

At the same time, Sims added that since the future will change, "that certainly will dictate how that is employed".


I am translating from a diplomatic language. The US does not give Ukraine F16 just because they made a deal with the Russians. The Russians will not hand over their fighter jets to Iran in return. Blood Deal!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 19, 2023, 06:08
https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-18-23/h_44ceaf13c6a3bf712271cca48dd248d5 (https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-18-23/h_44ceaf13c6a3bf712271cca48dd248d5)

Ukrainian counteroffensive "far from a failure" despite moving slower than expected, top US general says.

The Ukrainian counteroffensive is “far from a failure” despite moving slower than anticipated, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley said Tuesday.

“It started about five or six weeks ago, and the various war games that were done ahead of time that predicted certain levels of advance and that has slowed down. Why? Because that's the difference between war on paper and real war,” Milley said during a press briefing. “These are real people in real machines that are out there really clearing real minefields and they're really dying. So when that happens, units tend to slow down, and that's rightly so, in order to survive in order to get through these minefields.”
“It is far from a failure,” he added. “In my view, I think that it's way too early to make that kind of call. I think there’s a lot of fighting left to go."

Milley also said that Ukraine has a “significant amount of combat power not yet committed” to the counteroffensive.

“I will not say what's going to happen in the future, because that's going to be a Ukrainian decision as to where and when they commit their reserve, etc,” he said. “Right now they are preserving their combat power, and they are slowly and deliberately and steadily working their way through all these minefields.”

______________
Also read this article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/15/ukraine-war-russia-mines-counteroffensive/?fbclid=IwAR3hI6Wdbmo_yMAY6FvJl9Of3kyc3cfDy3Uk0qnIgYR_vqtwpZu9REy6UzQ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/07/15/ukraine-war-russia-mines-counteroffensive/?fbclid=IwAR3hI6Wdbmo_yMAY6FvJl9Of3kyc3cfDy3Uk0qnIgYR_vqtwpZu9REy6UzQ)
__________________


Joe Biden! Give Ukraine F16 and no minefields will be an obstacle to the rapid advance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Of course, without aviation, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are forced to fight according to the tactics and strategy of the First World War. Without aviation, a lot of Ukrainians die every day.
Biden! Give Ukraine ATACMS missiles and Crimea will be de-occupied by the end of this year.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 19, 2023, 06:43
Today, the Armed Forces of Ukraine attacked an ammunition depot in Russian-occupied Crimea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JKjOogzVLo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JKjOogzVLo)


Glory to Ukraine!

More photos here:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fire-military-base-crimea-major-highway-closed-russia-backed-governor-2023-07-19/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/fire-military-base-crimea-major-highway-closed-russia-backed-governor-2023-07-19/)

(https://www.reuters.com/resizer/lhOSmPBQrPvK-ezNpm9zH075xfM=/960x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/4G7RHESEIBIZLDZIXYN5HDHGKA.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 19, 2023, 13:16
Trump is going to recover US expenses to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the EU.

https://rumble.com/v30rzca-agenda47-rebuilding-americas-depleted-military.html (https://rumble.com/v30rzca-agenda47-rebuilding-americas-depleted-military.html)

 :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 19, 2023, 15:39
Trump is going to recover US expenses to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the EU.

https://rumble.com/v30rzca-agenda47-rebuilding-americas-depleted-military.html (https://rumble.com/v30rzca-agenda47-rebuilding-americas-depleted-military.html)

 :-\

I see you have an undecided emoji, and rightly so.

"Less than three years ago, I'd fully rebuilt the United States military and steered America into such a strong global position. That peace was breaking out all over the world, we had peace through strength. Twenty-nine months later, the arsenals are empty, the stockpiles are bare, the Treasury is drained, the ranks are being hollowed out, our country has been totally humiliated, and we have a corrupt, compromised President crooked Joe Biden, who is dragging us into World War III."

These claims need to be fact checked. trump has a very bad record when fact checked, with only 3% of what was previously checked being absolutely true, and 73% being mostly false, false, or pants on fire! 

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/ (https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/)





Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 19, 2023, 16:22

Joe Biden! Give Ukraine F16 and no minefields will be an obstacle to the rapid advance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Done deal.

Ukrainian F-16 pilots will be trained by the private company Draken International.

The company published a recruitment ad stating that the military instructors would work at the Borcea, Feteşti military base in Romania.

The company is also recruiting other categories of personnel for the pilot training center, including technicians, electricians, and other avionics specialists. Applicants must have at least five years of experience operating F-16 aircraft. Hired people will stay in Romania for three to 19 months.

Initially, training will consist of testing and selection of Ukrainian personnel, language lessons, and later theoretical and practical training will be conducted. The program aims for Ukrainian pilots to acquire basic skills in operating and maintaining F-16 aircraft.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 19, 2023, 16:32
Trump is going to recover US expenses to support the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the EU.

https://rumble.com/v30rzca-agenda47-rebuilding-americas-depleted-military.html (https://rumble.com/v30rzca-agenda47-rebuilding-americas-depleted-military.html)

 :-\
This is from the same crap category as "I will build a Wall and Mexico will pay for it".
Fyi, in 4 years, he built only 47 miles of wall and reinforced some fences, but Mexico didn't pay a peso for it. Nada.
Moreover, his consigliere, Steve Banon, was convicted for fraud and embezzlement after stealing the money MAGA morons donated to build "the Wall".

How can you look into the mouth of a pathological mythomaniac?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 20, 2023, 03:31

Joe Biden! Give Ukraine F16 and no minefields will be an obstacle to the rapid advance of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Done deal.

Ukrainian F-16 pilots will be trained by the private company Draken International.

The company published a recruitment ad stating that the military instructors would work at the Borcea, Feteşti military base in Romania.

The company is also recruiting other categories of personnel for the pilot training center, including technicians, electricians, and other avionics specialists. Applicants must have at least five years of experience operating F-16 aircraft. Hired people will stay in Romania for three to 19 months.

Initially, training will consist of testing and selection of Ukrainian personnel, language lessons, and later theoretical and practical training will be conducted. The program aims for Ukrainian pilots to acquire basic skills in operating and maintaining F-16 aircraft.

Yes, a few days ago, Biden did allow Ukrainian pilots to be trained. But it's all too late, very late! Pilots should have been trained as early as 2022. Moreover, it is not clear when and how many aircraft will be given to Ukraine. The Russians have plenty of time to get ready for the F16, now they're raising their whole rusty old air fleet and launching it into the sky. For F16, a lot of vintage aircraft may well be a problem. Biden working for the Russians?

The offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has been going on for 2 months, but there is no aviation. And there is no aviation only through the fault of Biden!

And Biden still does not allow ATACMS missiles to be transferred to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 20, 2023, 04:48



Yes, a few days ago, Biden did allow Ukrainian pilots to be trained. But it's all too late, very late! Pilots should have been trained as early as 2022. Moreover, it is not clear when and how many aircraft will be given to Ukraine. The Russians have plenty of time to get ready for the F16, now they're raising their whole rusty old air fleet and launching it into the sky. For F16, a lot of vintage aircraft may well be a problem. Biden working for the Russians?



OMG, Stoker -  Biden is NOT working for the Russians. He is the last USA politician that would do that. Can you remember the 20 year history I gave you before?

Here is some more info ...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195)

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html)

When it coms to putin, Biden is the anti-trump. trump loves putin. Biden has always been outspoken against putin. For example, during his 2020 political campaign, when asked by a journalist whether putin was a murderer - Biden did not hesitate to say, Yes. I can try and find that clip for you if you don't believe me.   
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 20, 2023, 08:21



Yes, a few days ago, Biden did allow Ukrainian pilots to be trained. But it's all too late, very late! Pilots should have been trained as early as 2022. Moreover, it is not clear when and how many aircraft will be given to Ukraine. The Russians have plenty of time to get ready for the F16, now they're raising their whole rusty old air fleet and launching it into the sky. For F16, a lot of vintage aircraft may well be a problem. Biden working for the Russians?



OMG, Stoker -  Biden is NOT working for the Russians. He is the last USA politician that would do that. Can you remember the 20 year history I gave you before?

Here is some more info ...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195)

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html)

When it coms to putin, Biden is the anti-trump. trump loves putin. Biden has always been outspoken against putin. For example, during his 2020 political campaign, when asked by a journalist whether putin was a murderer - Biden did not hesitate to say, Yes. I can try and find that clip for you if you don't believe me.
Everything is written beautifully and Biden speaks beautifully too. But I have questions.
1. Why don't Ukraine get F16 planes?
2. Why Ukraine is not given ATACMS missiles?
3. Why did Biden sign the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022, but there is information that nothing has been delivered under this law yet. Perhaps I am wrong here and you will find somewhere more information whether there were deliveries under this law and when this law ceases to operate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 20, 2023, 12:52
4. Very weak sanctions are applied to russia as a terrorist country.
The FATF never put russia on the list of terrorist countries. Russia sells gas, oil, grain, coal, etc. Russians are building nuclear power plants in other countries and they are paid money for this. Yes, the Russians have reduced the price of oil a little, but it's still dollars, the money that comes to the Russians and who spend this money on murders, genocide, ecocide and crimes against humanity.
The Russians blew up the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station, and the whole world is silent, but this is ecocide and genocide at the same time. The Russians have mined the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, and the sanctions are not being increased.
Russian stockers (rashists) sell their work in stock agencies, withdraw money to russia and sponsor the economy.
So what does Biden do besides talk nicely? Ukraine does not need words, Ukraine needs weapons and sanctions against the Russians.

If terrorists take over a children's school in Australia and kill a certain number of children a day, will your government trade with these terrorists, give them money, various goods? So, Ukraine is no different from a school in Australia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on July 20, 2023, 13:43
4. Very weak sanctions are applied to russia as a terrorist country.
The FATF never put russia on the list of terrorist countries. Russia sells gas, oil, grain, coal, etc. Russians are building nuclear power plants in other countries and they are paid money for this. Yes, the Russians have reduced the price of oil a little, but it's still dollars, the money that comes to the Russians and who spend this money on murders, genocide, ecocide and crimes against humanity.
The Russians blew up the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station, and the whole world is silent, but this is ecocide and genocide at the same time. The Russians have mined the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, and the sanctions are not being increased.
Russian stockers (rashists) sell their work in stock agencies, withdraw money to russia and sponsor the economy.
So what does Biden do besides talk nicely? Ukraine does not need words, Ukraine needs weapons and sanctions against the Russians.

If terrorists take over a children's school in Australia and kill a certain number of children a day, will your government trade with these terrorists, give them money, various goods? So, Ukraine is no different from a school in Australia.

When you were bombarding your own civilians in the east when you staged a coup in 2014 you were not crying back then.
In fact you were the fascists opposing your will on somebody else. You have made the wager to overthrow the government and you solve with the consequences now then. You can't drag the west into a WWIII because you demand it. You were probably helped by the west but it certainly is not in our interest to have a full blown war with russia.
You could have also implemented the Minsk agreements and then this would not have happened at all. But you chose not to do so, you were greedy, you needed to have it all. You should call yourself lucky that you are getting so much support as it is now from the west. But in the end you have decided to choose to fight. There is still a possibillity to negotiate but you choose not to. This will cost many lives on both sides unnecessarily.
Western countries pouring weapons in this fight without actually being involved with their own people should be ashamed as well. I am saying this as a western person. I dislike russia, will never live there, don't like their way of living but I also don't like Ukranians what they did to their fellow countrymen and consider them as any other group of people that forced themselves in power. If it is Africa, Middle East or wherever. You did it, you solve it yourself. Ukraine is not part of Europe, never has been and will hopefully never be. Poor, corrupt country. Ex-soviet satellite.
You are costing my country enough as it is allready and your big mouth, demanding everything, critizising what we do or don't, is the same as your beloved leader zelensky does.
You have created this mess. You solve it. Stop asking the west and otherwise you are a beggar indeed and will be treated as such.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 20, 2023, 14:20



Yes, a few days ago, Biden did allow Ukrainian pilots to be trained. But it's all too late, very late! Pilots should have been trained as early as 2022. Moreover, it is not clear when and how many aircraft will be given to Ukraine. The Russians have plenty of time to get ready for the F16, now they're raising their whole rusty old air fleet and launching it into the sky. For F16, a lot of vintage aircraft may well be a problem. Biden working for the Russians?



OMG, Stoker -  Biden is NOT working for the Russians. He is the last USA politician that would do that. Can you remember the 20 year history I gave you before?

Here is some more info ...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195)

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html)

When it coms to putin, Biden is the anti-trump. trump loves putin. Biden has always been outspoken against putin. For example, during his 2020 political campaign, when asked by a journalist whether putin was a murderer - Biden did not hesitate to say, Yes. I can try and find that clip for you if you don't believe me.
Everything is written beautifully and Biden speaks beautifully too. But I have questions.
1. Why don't Ukraine get F16 planes?
2. Why Ukraine is not given ATACMS missiles?
3. Why did Biden sign the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022, but there is information that nothing has been delivered under this law yet. Perhaps I am wrong here and you will find somewhere more information whether there were deliveries under this law and when this law ceases to operate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022)

Because of the threat of WWIII



And its not just USA ...

"Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters that the Russian Embassy in London, for instance, had warned that if Britain decides to supply fighter jets to Kyiv, it "would have military and political consequences for the European continent and the whole world."" CBA News, February 2023

While many leaders of NATO countries are committed to helping Ukraine, they must also protect the security of their own countries - which must come first.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 21, 2023, 02:38



Yes, a few days ago, Biden did allow Ukrainian pilots to be trained. But it's all too late, very late! Pilots should have been trained as early as 2022. Moreover, it is not clear when and how many aircraft will be given to Ukraine. The Russians have plenty of time to get ready for the F16, now they're raising their whole rusty old air fleet and launching it into the sky. For F16, a lot of vintage aircraft may well be a problem. Biden working for the Russians?



OMG, Stoker -  Biden is NOT working for the Russians. He is the last USA politician that would do that. Can you remember the 20 year history I gave you before?

Here is some more info ...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195)

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html)

When it coms to putin, Biden is the anti-trump. trump loves putin. Biden has always been outspoken against putin. For example, during his 2020 political campaign, when asked by a journalist whether putin was a murderer - Biden did not hesitate to say, Yes. I can try and find that clip for you if you don't believe me.
Everything is written beautifully and Biden speaks beautifully too. But I have questions.
1. Why don't Ukraine get F16 planes?
2. Why Ukraine is not given ATACMS missiles?
3. Why did Biden sign the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022, but there is information that nothing has been delivered under this law yet. Perhaps I am wrong here and you will find somewhere more information whether there were deliveries under this law and when this law ceases to operate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022)

Because of the threat of WWIII



And its not just USA ...

"Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters that the Russian Embassy in London, for instance, had warned that if Britain decides to supply fighter jets to Kyiv, it "would have military and political consequences for the European continent and the whole world."" CBA News, February 2023

While many leaders of NATO countries are committed to helping Ukraine, they must also protect the security of their own countries - which must come first.
Here you are completely wrong. You can't fulfill any of the demands of the terrorists, because these demands will only grow and the killings will continue. Do not forget that the Russian army has already been practically destroyed by the hands of the Ukrainians and does not pose a threat to the NATO countries. The same terrorist Peskov, to whom you refer, constantly threatens the whole world with some consequences, nevertheless, Ukraine is supplied with air defense, tanks, and artillery. You also need to re-read some of my previous posts in this thread, where I wrote about Russia's plans and the purpose of the occupation of Ukraine.
The third world war is already underway, in 2022 the Russians delivered an ultimatum to NATO. Not supplying the necessary weapons to Ukraine and not strengthening sanctions is the result of Biden's pro-Russian policy only. Ukraine has been defending the EU, NATO and US interests in Europe for the second year at the cost of the lives of all Ukrainians.
Excuses like Putin will attack NATO, it already smells like Russian propaganda. Why then do we need NATO if it is so afraid of the Russians and is ready to comply with the demands of the Russians.
If the US is afraid of the Russians, then why was there anything to help Ukraine at all? The position of the United States is the position of a coward.

________

But I already wrote that the US is not really afraid of the Russians, it's just that this Biden plays dirty political games and trades in Ukraine and the blood of Ukrainians. Biden's policy is beneficial to the Russians. Biden is not much different from his predecessors, Clinton and Obama. Yes, it's basically the same team.

Also, I won’t be too surprised if Biden’s goal is not to help Ukraine, but to exterminate Ukrainians as much as possible, so that when the Russians occupy Ukraine, they have no one to mobilize against NATO countries. But not providing the necessary weapons to Ukraine just leads to the extermination of Ukrainians and gives the Russians the opportunity to occupy Ukraine.
________

Some experts say that Biden does not need a Ukrainian victory in 2023, he needs a Ukrainian victory in 2024, before his US elections. No matter how many people die in Ukraine, only Biden's victory in the elections in 2024 matters.
_________

Who is the greater killer and criminal, then who directly kills or the one who stands, looks at the process, has every opportunity to stop and eliminate the killer, but at the same time either does nothing or gives the victim some items so that the victim is not killed very quickly?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 21, 2023, 13:32
So that's why I wrote all this. I want to say that US citizens are not idiots, they see the real policy of Biden, they saw how the US ran away from Afghanistan, threw people into the power of the Taliban, people clung to the plane taking off. As a result, the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were even forced to evacuate some people from Afghanistan, because there was no one else to do it. All these events cause great damage to the image of the United States. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Trump or some other Republican wins in 2024.
I will say right away that the best US president for Ukraine is Mike Pence.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 21, 2023, 13:45
Ukraine begins firing cluster munitions at Russian forces

https://youtu.be/O1Cb-HtDMrc?t=6 (https://youtu.be/O1Cb-HtDMrc?t=6)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 21, 2023, 15:01

Who is the greater killer and criminal, then who directly kills or the one who stands, looks at the process, has every opportunity to stop and eliminate the killer, but at the same time either does nothing or gives the victim some items so that the victim is not killed very quickly?

Sorry to be so upfront. I'm not trying to offend you but confront you with the reality of things because what you write shows little appreciation for the GIANT help that the West is giving Ukraine. I think you should stop doing childish rhetoric. It looks ridiculous, ofensive and of poor character content.

Maybe we shouldn't really help that much if we compare other factors:

The volume of aid is three times greater than the estimates that the UN makes about the resources needed to deal with hunger in the world each year...

Military aid for Ukraine is still more than twice the volume of resources that humanitarian agencies request so that, in 2023, they can come to the rescue of 230 million people in 69 countries that are experiencing deep social, natural and armed conflict problems, including Haiti and Venezuela...

Both in Europe and in the US, pressure is growing from a section of society and political leaders in view of the price that the populations of these two parts of the world would be suffering due to the sanctions against Moscow and support for the Ukrainians. Not coincidentally, both Biden and European leaders used the latest speeches to frame the involvement in Ukraine as a “struggle for democracy”.

Advice for healthy, empathetic communication: deep breath, listen more and talk less.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 21, 2023, 16:28



Yes, a few days ago, Biden did allow Ukrainian pilots to be trained. But it's all too late, very late! Pilots should have been trained as early as 2022. Moreover, it is not clear when and how many aircraft will be given to Ukraine. The Russians have plenty of time to get ready for the F16, now they're raising their whole rusty old air fleet and launching it into the sky. For F16, a lot of vintage aircraft may well be a problem. Biden working for the Russians?



OMG, Stoker -  Biden is NOT working for the Russians. He is the last USA politician that would do that. Can you remember the 20 year history I gave you before?

Here is some more info ...

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/09/biden-russia-putin-love-story-492195)

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/19/politics/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-personal-history/index.html)

When it coms to putin, Biden is the anti-trump. trump loves putin. Biden has always been outspoken against putin. For example, during his 2020 political campaign, when asked by a journalist whether putin was a murderer - Biden did not hesitate to say, Yes. I can try and find that clip for you if you don't believe me.
Everything is written beautifully and Biden speaks beautifully too. But I have questions.
1. Why don't Ukraine get F16 planes?
2. Why Ukraine is not given ATACMS missiles?
3. Why did Biden sign the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022, but there is information that nothing has been delivered under this law yet. Perhaps I am wrong here and you will find somewhere more information whether there were deliveries under this law and when this law ceases to operate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022)

Because of the threat of WWIII



And its not just USA ...

"Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters that the Russian Embassy in London, for instance, had warned that if Britain decides to supply fighter jets to Kyiv, it "would have military and political consequences for the European continent and the whole world."" CBA News, February 2023

While many leaders of NATO countries are committed to helping Ukraine, they must also protect the security of their own countries - which must come first.
Here you are completely wrong. You can't fulfill any of the demands of the terrorists, because these demands will only grow and the killings will continue. Do not forget that the Russian army has already been practically destroyed by the hands of the Ukrainians and does not pose a threat to the NATO countries. The same terrorist Peskov, to whom you refer, constantly threatens the whole world with some consequences, nevertheless, Ukraine is supplied with air defense, tanks, and artillery. You also need to re-read some of my previous posts in this thread, where I wrote about Russia's plans and the purpose of the occupation of Ukraine.
The third world war is already underway, in 2022 the Russians delivered an ultimatum to NATO. Not supplying the necessary weapons to Ukraine and not strengthening sanctions is the result of Biden's pro-Russian policy only. Ukraine has been defending the EU, NATO and US interests in Europe for the second year at the cost of the lives of all Ukrainians.
Excuses like Putin will attack NATO, it already smells like Russian propaganda. Why then do we need NATO if it is so afraid of the Russians and is ready to comply with the demands of the Russians.
If the US is afraid of the Russians, then why was there anything to help Ukraine at all? The position of the United States is the position of a coward.

________

But I already wrote that the US is not really afraid of the Russians, it's just that this Biden plays dirty political games and trades in Ukraine and the blood of Ukrainians. Biden's policy is beneficial to the Russians. Biden is not much different from his predecessors, Clinton and Obama. Yes, it's basically the same team.

Also, I won’t be too surprised if Biden’s goal is not to help Ukraine, but to exterminate Ukrainians as much as possible, so that when the Russians occupy Ukraine, they have no one to mobilize against NATO countries. But not providing the necessary weapons to Ukraine just leads to the extermination of Ukrainians and gives the Russians the opportunity to occupy Ukraine.
________

Some experts say that Biden does not need a Ukrainian victory in 2023, he needs a Ukrainian victory in 2024, before his US elections. No matter how many people die in Ukraine, only Biden's victory in the elections in 2024 matters.
_________

Who is the greater killer and criminal, then who directly kills or the one who stands, looks at the process, has every opportunity to stop and eliminate the killer, but at the same time either does nothing or gives the victim some items so that the victim is not killed very quickly?

You are right about one thing: in principle, we are on the verge of WWIII, but still without nuclear weapons.

And that is exactly the point. To maintain this status quo is the ambition of the USA, NATO and the EU.

Nobody can want a nuclear war. Not the West, not the Russians, not Ukraine. Not even you!

The Russian army was not destroyed by Ukraine. This is wishful thinking. If that were the case, there would be no reason to supply more weapons.

Whether Biden or Trump: All are aware that Putin has brought the world to the brink of the abyss and are trying to prevent the crash - by weighing up what is still within the bounds of what is acceptable. I am grateful that you are not in the decision-making position. And I believe that the decisive persons and their advisory boards know much more than you and me!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 21, 2023, 20:18

But I already wrote that the US is not really afraid of the Russians, it's just that this Biden plays dirty political games and trades in Ukraine and the blood of Ukrainians. Biden's policy is beneficial to the Russians. Biden is not much different from his predecessors, Clinton and Obama. Yes, it's basically the same team.

Also, I won’t be too surprised if Biden’s goal is not to help Ukraine, but to exterminate Ukrainians as much as possible, so that when the Russians occupy Ukraine, they have no one to mobilize against NATO countries. But not providing the necessary weapons to Ukraine just leads to the extermination of Ukrainians and gives the Russians the opportunity to occupy Ukraine.
________

Some experts say that Biden does not need a Ukrainian victory in 2023, he needs a Ukrainian victory in 2024, before his US elections. No matter how many people die in Ukraine, only Biden's victory in the elections in 2024 matters.
_________

Who is the greater killer and criminal, then who directly kills or the one who stands, looks at the process, has every opportunity to stop and eliminate the killer, but at the same time either does nothing or gives the victim some items so that the victim is not killed very quickly?

I am starting to think that you work for Putin, Stoker. Spreading lies and misinformation about Putin's arch-rival so that everyone votes for the man (trump) he wants to win the next election. Isn't that an old KGB trick?

But seriously, listen to the good people above who are trying to give you some sound advice.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 02:39
I am starting to think that you work for Putin, Stoker. Spreading lies and misinformation about Putin's arch-rival so that everyone votes for the man (trump) he wants to win the next election. Isn't that an old KGB trick?

But seriously, listen to the good people above who are trying to give you some sound advice.
It depends which side to look at. If you look at Biden like an angel and applaud, that's one approach. But we see that there are many people in the US who do not support Biden, which means there is another side of the truth. I just listed the shortcomings of Biden's policy, perhaps there is an explanation for them, but the decision will be made by US citizens in the elections. I am not campaigning, and even here there are no US citizens in the subject.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 02:48
Nobody can want a nuclear war. Not the West, not the Russians, not Ukraine. Not even you!
The US and NATO have enough conventional weapons to destroy all of Russia's nuclear weapons. But environmental damage is possible.

The Russian army was not destroyed by Ukraine. This is wishful thinking. If that were the case, there would be no reason to supply more weapons.
The elite Russian troops were destroyed in 2022, now the Russian army is only mobilized. Their tanks that they send to the front during the Second World War, removed from storage. And 70% of the Russian army is now between the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea, I can even attach a screenshot from the map. If the Crimean bridge is destroyed and the Armed Forces of Ukraine approach the Sea of Azov, 70% of the Russian army will be surrounded. From a military point of view, it remains only to finish off the Russians, but aviation and missiles are needed.
In any case, the Russian army is no longer capable of attacking on a large scale anywhere, and even more so against the EU countries.

Whether Biden or Trump: All are aware that Putin has brought the world to the brink of the abyss and are trying to prevent the crash - by weighing up what is still within the bounds of what is acceptable. I am grateful that you are not in the decision-making position. And I believe that the decisive persons and their advisory boards know much more than you and me!
Do not be afraid of the Russians, they are terrorists, rashists and only bluff and spread myths.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 02:52
Evaristo tenscadisto, yes, you can give Ukraine to the Russians, you can also give half of the EU to the Russians. If this solves the problem of hunger on planet earth, can we do that? You can also give a lot of things to China.
But if there is already a war, then this war should not be dragged out for many years, as Obama did and Biden does, but quickly supply Ukraine with what Valery Zaluzhny says, and then the war will end very quickly.
This I mean that if you participate in the war, then participate fully and without fuck off in your pockets.
I write emotionally in some places, it's true.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 03:02
Sorry to be so upfront. I'm not trying to offend you but confront you with the reality of things because what you write shows little appreciation for the GIANT help that the West is giving Ukraine. I think you should stop doing childish rhetoric. It looks ridiculous, ofensive and of poor character content.
I have already written many times that the United States and NATO countries help only themselves first of all. In many places on the world map there have been and are bloody wars and many more people are dying than in Ukraine, but only Ukraine is in the first place in the media and only Ukraine is given weapons. It's called hypocrisy, and it's true. A few days ago I wrote why the occupation of Ukraine is not beneficial to NATO. Therefore, Ukraine should not say thank you. It is because of the bad policies of the EU and the US that the Russians attacked Ukraine. This is the fault of Merkel, who did not let Ukraine into NATO in 2008, this is also the absence of sanctions against the Russian empire for many decades, etc.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 05:15
There have been some operative changes in the last 24 hours. There is information that the Russians delivered 25-50 SU-35 fighters to Iran, which means that Biden is now forced to withdraw from the agreement with the Russians. Now the media are actively talking about the fact that F16 fighter aircraft and ATACMS missiles will soon be handed over to Ukraine.
The only question is how many F16 and missiles will be given, and whether the White House will prevent the Armed Forces of Ukraine from using these weapons effectively.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 11:36
The Russians continue to drive their cars across the destroyed Crimean bridge.  ;D ;D ;D
Tell me, are they Russian orcs or zombies? Rashism is a mental illness.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on July 22, 2023, 13:32
Sorry to be so upfront. I'm not trying to offend you but confront you with the reality of things because what you write shows little appreciation for the GIANT help that the West is giving Ukraine. I think you should stop doing childish rhetoric. It looks ridiculous, ofensive and of poor character content.
I have already written many times that the United States and NATO countries help only themselves first of all. In many places on the world map there have been and are bloody wars and many more people are dying than in Ukraine, but only Ukraine is in the first place in the media and only Ukraine is given weapons. It's called hypocrisy, and it's true. A few days ago I wrote why the occupation of Ukraine is not beneficial to NATO. Therefore, Ukraine should not say thank you. It is because of the bad policies of the EU and the US that the Russians attacked Ukraine. This is the fault of Merkel, who did not let Ukraine into NATO in 2008, this is also the absence of sanctions against the Russian empire for many decades, etc.

There's a lot of sympathy for you here because you seem to be suffering very personally from the war. And rightfully so. Nobody with a clear mind can justify or defend what Russians are doing to Ukraine.

But, also, that's no excuse to talk nonsense, and despite some very patient and well balanced posts from others here, there seems to be no way to change your mind. 

I just hope you realize that your anti-biden, anti-merkel narrative and harsh criticism on how NATO, EU and US supports Ukraine perfectly fits the narrative of pro-Russian voices in the west. And some of those pro-Russian voices are on the rise, even winning elections. Beware of that!

NATO-countries invested billions and billions and billions of Dollars or Euro's to support Ukraine. And they continue to do so. Also keep in mind: Ukraine is not NATO, Ukraine is not EU. They don't HAVE to do that. NATO, nor EU-countries nor US are the police of the world.  Yet, those countries decided to engage in a proxy war with Russia. Of course, they mainly look after their own interests, rightfully so, and they balance how they support Ukraine to prevent worse. Geopolitical interests and so on. But, bottom-line: it's thanks to them that a big part of Ukraine is still under Ukrainian control and Ukraine is gaining land over Russia again. Russia will not win this war.

So keep your head clear. Criticism is fine, and even justified. But you bite the hand that feeds you very hard, and you seem to be completely unaware of the other hand, the one that mainly supports Russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on July 22, 2023, 14:39
Now that the bridge is non-functional, they must take an even riskier route home, through Mariupol and witness the real horrors of their regime.
Yesterday there was already a traffic jam on that bypass road for 25 km. There are Russian checkpoints everywhere and there are mines everywhere on the road. The attraction is great!
But that's not all, although the Allies do not give the Armed Forces of Ukraine aviation, nevertheless, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are slowly moving towards the Sea of Azov in the Zaporizhzhia region. And as soon as the Armed Forces of Ukraine approach the land corridor within the range of an artillery shot, this road will be under constant fire control of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. So the Russians don't have much time left to escape from the Ukrainian Crimea.

And in the meanwhile in the reality word that you will ignore like you will ignore any tragedy that the clown pulled his people into as long as he is fighting Russians , the population of Ukraine went from 43M to under 29M and 30 000 people are leaving the country on daily basis according to official Ukrainian data. And anyone who lived trough a war personally knows that refugees tend to start a new life and mostly never come back. 

So that Jokerman decided to destroy his own nation instead of choosing neutrality in the game between 2 imperialistic predator states where one is destroying him and the other one is literally giving him the finger and watching him being destroyed while pretending to support him by throwing him breadcrumbs instead of real help because they worry about their own asses in front of the enemy they convinced him is weak. 

Kyiv will more likely end up under nuclear cloud than Crimea will get back under Ukrainian jurisdiction and everyone with a gram of unwashed brain knows that.

You can continue with fairy-tails now, sorry for the interruption.   


I have now thought longer about whether I should respond to your lines. I just can not help it.

The "Jokerman" has not decided to destroy his country!!! Putin has decided that! Nobody else!

Your reasoning obviously says that Russia has the right to attack any country that has abandoned its neutrality. Countries that have been neutral for decades, such as Finland or Sweden, have abandoned their neutrality because of Russia's imperialist aspirations. They have chosen to join NATO. Not because they wanted to, but because they are afraid of Putin! Rightly so!

As for the refugee issue, this is a hard-core calculation by Russia to destabilize* the democratic states to which these refugees are fleeing. If all these refugees were attracted to Russia, they would flee to Russia. But they don't. They will have their reasons!

And you can be sure of one thing: if Ukraine ends up under a nuclear cloud, the densely populated parts of Russia will end up under that cloud as well. Putin knows that, too.

*Of course, this also applies to the grain issue. When millions of starving Africans make their way to Europe, it contributes to destabilization. And Putin knows that none of these refugees will seek the way to Russia. Why not, in fact?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 22, 2023, 15:18


And you can be sure of one thing: if Ukraine ends up under a nuclear cloud, the densely populated parts of Russia will end up under that cloud as well. Putin knows that, too.



I saw this on twitter last night from the NY Times ...

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1682390061243940864

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 16:14
Sorry to be so upfront. I'm not trying to offend you but confront you with the reality of things because what you write shows little appreciation for the GIANT help that the West is giving Ukraine. I think you should stop doing childish rhetoric. It looks ridiculous, ofensive and of poor character content.
I have already written many times that the United States and NATO countries help only themselves first of all. In many places on the world map there have been and are bloody wars and many more people are dying than in Ukraine, but only Ukraine is in the first place in the media and only Ukraine is given weapons. It's called hypocrisy, and it's true. A few days ago I wrote why the occupation of Ukraine is not beneficial to NATO. Therefore, Ukraine should not say thank you. It is because of the bad policies of the EU and the US that the Russians attacked Ukraine. This is the fault of Merkel, who did not let Ukraine into NATO in 2008, this is also the absence of sanctions against the Russian empire for many decades, etc.

There's a lot of sympathy for you here because you seem to be suffering very personally from the war. And rightfully so. Nobody with a clear mind can justify or defend what Russians are doing to Ukraine.

But, also, that's no excuse to talk nonsense, and despite some very patient and well balanced posts from others here, there seems to be no way to change your mind. 

I just hope you realize that your anti-biden, anti-merkel narrative and harsh criticism on how NATO, EU and US supports Ukraine perfectly fits the narrative of pro-Russian voices in the west. And some of those pro-Russian voices are on the rise, even winning elections. Beware of that!

NATO-countries invested billions and billions and billions of Dollars or Euro's to support Ukraine. And they continue to do so. Also keep in mind: Ukraine is not NATO, Ukraine is not EU. They don't HAVE to do that. NATO, nor EU-countries nor US are the police of the world.  Yet, those countries decided to engage in a proxy war with Russia. Of course, they mainly look after their own interests, rightfully so, and they balance how they support Ukraine to prevent worse. Geopolitical interests and so on. But, bottom-line: it's thanks to them that a big part of Ukraine is still under Ukrainian control and Ukraine is gaining land over Russia again. Russia will not win this war.

So keep your head clear. Criticism is fine, and even justified. But you bite the hand that feeds you very hard, and you seem to be completely unaware of the other hand, the one that mainly supports Russia.
Your post is more likely to refer to EU citizens, there are a lot of people who blame the US, but have no claims against the Russians.
If you read my posts, you have seen that I consider Russia and Russians to be enemies. But when it comes to the problems of Ukraine, I also write criticism and ask questions. I think this is democracy.
Yes, there is help from NATO, and it is very good, but criticism is also needed to make this help even better. It is believed that Biden's victory in the next election depends on the success of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Therefore, most likely Ukraine will get everything it needs.
I do not think that my posts can harm the allies of Ukraine, rather, on the contrary, Ukraine will receive even more help.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 16:17
Wilm, +100.
Yes, people write such horror after they read Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 22, 2023, 16:22


And you can be sure of one thing: if Ukraine ends up under a nuclear cloud, the densely populated parts of Russia will end up under that cloud as well. Putin knows that, too.



I saw this on twitter last night from the NY Times ...

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1682390061243940864
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactical_nuclear_weapon

I think we are talking about tactical nuclear weapons. There are just shells for artillery, they do not have such large-scale consequences. The Russians would have used them long ago, but they are afraid of NATO reaction.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 23, 2023, 02:37
I just hope you realize that your anti-biden, anti-merkel narrative and harsh criticism on how NATO, EU and US supports Ukraine perfectly fits the narrative of pro-Russian voices in the west. And some of those pro-Russian voices are on the rise, even winning elections. Beware of that!

NATO-countries invested billions and billions and billions of Dollars or Euro's to support Ukraine. And they continue to do so. Also keep in mind: Ukraine is not NATO, Ukraine is not EU. They don't HAVE to do that. NATO, nor EU-countries nor US are the police of the world.  Yet, those countries decided to engage in a proxy war with Russia. Of course, they mainly look after their own interests, rightfully so, and they balance how they support Ukraine to prevent worse. Geopolitical interests and so on. But, bottom-line: it's thanks to them that a big part of Ukraine is still under Ukrainian control and Ukraine is gaining land over Russia again. Russia will not win this war.
1. Budapest Memorandum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
2. Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Democracy_Defense_Lend-Lease_Act_of_2022
3. You do not understand the main thing, the Russians started the third world war, attacked Ukraine and put forward an ultimatum to NATO. This is not NATO fighting for Ukraine, this is Ukraine fighting for NATO, the EU and the whole world. Why for the whole world, because as soon as Ukraine loses, the impotence of the United States will become obvious to China and China will start a war over Taiwan. Well, etc.
4. At the expense of the allegedly pro-Russian Trump. It was Trump who prevented the Russians and the KGB agent Merkel from building Nord Stream 2. But good uncle Biden came and allowed both Merkel and the Russians to build Nord Stream 2. This idiotic Biden policy became permission for Putin to start a war.
So who is the Kremlin's agent - Trump or maybe Biden?
In any case, I wrote about Mike Pence, he is also running for president, vote for him!!!

Why did the Russians and their agent Merkel need Nord Stream 2, I hope there is no need to explain?

5. The same Biden, back in the spring of 2021, saw the preparation of the Russians for an attack on Ukraine. But Biden did nothing against the Russians in 2021, zero! Why didn't Biden do anything in 2021, while the Russians were preparing and probing the ground? Is he an agent of the Kremlin or is he pursuing the idiotic policy of the Democrats?

Putin twice started a war against Ukraine under the Democrats in the United States. This is 2013-2014 and this is 2022. If the Democrats cannot pursue a policy aimed at preventing war, then they are either idiots or agents of Putin.

Therefore, let's leave emotions behind and listen to what the Commander-in-Chief of Ukraine Valeriy Zaluzny says to the NATO countries. If Ukraine loses, Russian tanks will come to your cities and shoot shells at your windows.
Now is not the time to conduct investigations, now Ukraine needs modern weapons, and whoever does not provide them is Putin's agent.

Wrote the truth as it is. Excuse me for my English.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 23, 2023, 03:33
To everyone who wants to tell Ukrainians what good people the Democrats are, I suggest that they come to Ukraine under Russian bombs, rockets and shells, in basements to tell all this to Ukrainians. At the same time, answer the question why the sky over Ukraine was not closed in the second year of the war, why the US and NATO do not give Ukraine aviation and missiles, and why the US does not comply with the Budapest memorandum. After that, you and your democrats will be sent along the course of the Russian warship.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 23, 2023, 09:32
Ukraine’s Lack of Weaponry and Training Risks Stalemate in Fight With Russia
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia-f51ecf9?fbclid=IwAR0CDINKl65bbsuKVcQ8h28b44MWjCUsJ6-XH6OiLBvljNTmYMMGIxcQdf8 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia-f51ecf9?fbclid=IwAR0CDINKl65bbsuKVcQ8h28b44MWjCUsJ6-XH6OiLBvljNTmYMMGIxcQdf8)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia/ar-AA1edW4t (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia/ar-AA1edW4t)

The article criticizes Biden's policies.
_______________
BRUSSELS—When Ukraine launched its big counteroffensive this spring, Western military officials knew Kyiv didn’t have all the training or weapons—from shells to warplanes—that it needed to dislodge Russian forces. But they hoped Ukrainian courage and resourcefulness would carry the day.

They haven’t. Deep and deadly minefields, extensive fortifications and Russian air power have combined to largely block significant advances by Ukrainian troops. Instead, the campaign risks descending into a stalemate with the potential to burn through lives and equipment without a major shift in momentum.

As the likelihood of any large-scale breakthrough by the Ukrainians this year dims, it raises the unsettling prospect for Washington and its allies of a longer war—one that would require a huge new infusion of sophisticated armaments and more training to give Kyiv a chance at victory.

The political calculus for the Biden administration is complicated. President Biden is up for re-election in the fall of 2024 and many in Washington believe concerns in the White House about the war’s impact on the campaign are prompting growing caution on the amount of support to offer Kyiv.

The American hesitation contrasts with shifting views in Europe, where more leaders over recent months have come to believe that Ukraine must prevail in the conflict—and Russia must lose—to ensure the continent’s security.

But European militaries lack sufficient resources to supply Ukraine with all it needs to eject Moscow’s armies from the roughly 20% of the country that they control. European leaders are also unlikely to significantly increase support to Kyiv if they sense U.S. reluctance, Western diplomats say.

The shift in trans-Atlantic political winds, evident in tensions between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and U.S. officials at the recent North Atlantic Treaty Organization summit in Lithuania, has come as Ukraine’s long-expected offensive appears stalled. Kyiv’s inability to make headway against Russian defenses has persuaded many Western military observers that Ukrainian forces need more training in complex military maneuvers, more-potent air defenses and much more armor.

Moscow’s military, meanwhile, is grappling with low morale because of exhaustion, poor supplies and infighting among Russian leaders, Ukrainian and Western intelligence indicates. Russia appears unable to seize the initiative and attack Ukrainian positions, but its forces remain robust enough to man hundreds of miles of fortifications and large numbers of aircraft, which are keeping Kyiv’s troops at bay.

The situation is a sharp change from last year, when Ukraine’s scrappy and at-times uncoordinated fighters stunned Moscow and the world by halting and then repelling a far greater number of Russian forces from around Kyiv, and then Kharkiv and Kherson.

In those battles, Ukraine used a highly mobile, decentralized defense against Russia’s larger but lumbering ground forces. Moscow made limited use of its formidable air forces, failing to gain air superiority, which in turn allowed Ukrainian ground forces to batter Russian troops and their supplies.

Now, Ukraine is on the offensive against Russian positions where troops have had months to build extensive defenses including minefields, barriers and bunkers. Western military doctrine holds that to attack a dug-in adversary, an attacking force should be at least three times the enemy’s size and use a well-coordinated combination of air and land forces.

Kyiv’s troops lack the mass, training and resources to follow those prescriptions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 23, 2023, 09:43
“Ukraine really needs to be able to scale up and synchronize military operations if it wants to be able to break through Russian defenses,” said Franz-Stefan Gady, an independent military analyst who recently toured Ukrainian front lines.

Gady said that rather than concentrating forces in assaults involving many units firing volleys of rockets and artillery—supporting simultaneous waves of advancing ground forces—Ukraine is attacking sequentially, with shelling followed by company-level infantry advances. The tactic “often telegraphs to the Russians that they’re attacking,” he said.

The small-scale approach, which is easier for commanders to orchestrate than pushing ground forces under covering artillery, creates its own problems, such as reduced mobility. Safely removing wounded soldiers from the front and bringing in fresh ammunition is more treacherous in company-level operations because the medical and logistics corps are less protected.

Conducting synchronized large-scale attacks is difficult for any armed force—even Western ones with more and better equipment than Ukraine has—because integrating vast numbers of land and air troops in the fast, violent ballet of a frontal assault is enormously difficult.

No Western military would also try to breach established defenses without controlling the skies.

“America would never attempt to defeat a prepared defense without air superiority, but they [Ukrainians] don’t have air superiority,” said John Nagl, a retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel who is now an associate professor of warfighting studies at the U.S. Army War College. “It’s impossible to overstate how important air superiority is for fighting a ground fight at a reasonable cost in casualties.”

Zelensky acknowledged in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in May that Russia has air superiority at the front and that a lack of protection for Ukrainian troops means “a large number of soldiers will die” in the fight.

Ukraine had hoped to find gaps in Russia’s fortifications, flood troops through, and cause the kind of havoc that its forces achieved last year among enemy ranks. Instead, unexpectedly dense minefields slowed Kyiv’s initial attacking forces, leaving them exposed to strikes from Russian aircraft and rockets.

Russian drones and attack helicopters, particularly Kamov Ka-52 “Alligator” gunships, have proven particularly dangerous. Ka-52s, which are among Russia’s most modern aircraft, can remain far behind Russian lines and rely on targeting data from spotter drones scanning the front. Their laser-guided Vikhr missiles have a range of roughly 5 miles, which is more than twice the range of any portable antiaircraft missiles in Ukraine’s armory.

U.S. Defense Department analysts knew early this year that Ukraine’s front-line troops would struggle against Russian air attacks. A classified Pentagon assessment from February, allegedly leaked by Air National Guard Airman Jack Teixeira, tallied a tiny number of weapons in Ukrainian hands able to hit distant aircraft and cited the risk of “inability to prevent Russian air superiority.”

Kyiv lacks sufficient air-defense equipment—such as U.S.-made Patriot batteries or more mobile German Gepard systems—to deploy many near front lines. Patriots and other large, less-mobile systems are also vulnerable to Russian drone attacks.

Ukraine’s paucity of battlefield air-defenses and antiaircraft weaponry has allowed Russia to dominate skies along much of the front.

“The Russians are now able to make better use of their aviation assets,” said Douglas Barrie, a senior fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, a think tank in London. “Russia doesn’t have air-superiority over the whole of Ukraine, but from the defender’s perspective, they’re in a much better position.”

Countering Russian aircraft is a primary reason Zelensky and his team have for months lobbied Washington and its European allies to supply U.S.-made F-16 jet fighters. Ukraine has only a small air force of Soviet-made planes and helicopters.

F-16s, which are modern but not the latest U.S. jet fighters, could pose enough of a threat to Russian aircraft that they might be less dangerous to Ukrainian ground forces and civilian infrastructure, according to advocates for providing the planes.

Ukrainian pilots and mechanics are preparing to train to fly and maintain the complex jets, through a coalition of at least 10 European countries. But Biden hasn’t yet given the necessary permission for F-16s to be delivered to Ukraine, and establishing supply chains to support and repair the planes would take months. The soonest F-16s could appear on the battlefield is probably early next year, say analysts.

If Ukraine receives the planes, their impact on fighting would depend on many factors, including the number supplied, the sophistication of their onboard equipment and the weapons systems provided to arm them. Incorporating advanced jet fighters into battle plans is also extremely complicated, requiring another level of synchronization in Ukrainian operations.

“There’s no silver bullet in war,” said U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley in April, when asked about F-16s for Ukraine. “The outcomes of battles and wars are the function of many, many variables.”
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 23, 2023, 10:05
Let's sum up the intermediate results. Under Democrat Obama, the Russians have occupied Crimea and the eastern regions of Ukraine. Under Democrat Biden, the Russians occupied part of the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions of Ukraine, a land corridor to Crimea. Neither Obama nor Biden are pursuing sufficient policies to de-occupy Ukrainian territory. On the contrary, they are pursuing a policy of support for Putin, Russians and occupation.
So why does the world need Democrats in power in the US? Rhetorical question....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 23, 2023, 10:09
This should settle some different opinions... i google and find interesting these relaxing and calming exercises:

A) Take a break. Focus on your breathing. Listen to music.
B) Spend some time in nature. Try active relaxation. Think of somewhere else.
C) Try guided meditation. Get creative.

 :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 23, 2023, 10:53
This should settle some different opinions... i google and find interesting these relaxing and calming exercises:

A) Take a break. Focus on your breathing. Listen to music.
B) Spend some time in nature. Try active relaxation. Think of somewhere else.
C) Try guided meditation. Get creative.

 :)
;D ;D ;D
First you need to give Biden a good pendel and kick ass to start working. After that I will take your advice.
 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 25, 2023, 13:38
 :o >:( >:( >:(
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html)
German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive.
The Bundeswehr has criticised the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the counteroffensive, stating that they are using the skills acquired during training abroad incorrectly.
The German military considers the division of combat units one of the main disadvantages of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They remark that "a joint battle leadership is not recognizable".

Not only does this "increase the risk of friendly fire", but it also leads to "manoeuvring elements lacking in focus [because the soldiers are trying] to build up [their] own momentum or establish fire superiority".

In other words, as long as Ukraine divides the brigades which have undergone training in the West into groups of 10-30 soldiers, isolated from the rest of the troops, neither Western training, nor superior armament, nor large quantity of manpower will be of any use.

In addition to this, Bundeswehr also criticised the training of experienced Ukrainian soldiers, who allegedly learn the principles of Western training worse than others, or do not participate in it at all.

It is stated in the document that the command staff sometimes demonstrates "considerable deficiencies in leadership and in the application of management processes at the respective level, which sometimes leads to wrong and dangerous decisions".
These factors – the separation of combat units and absence of proper training of command staff – may explain the slow advancement of the Ukrainian forces during the counteroffensive.
_________

Or maybe the Germans should come to Ukraine and show how to fight the Russians? Instead of telling there from under the NATO umbrella what Ukraine should do and how to do it.
__________

I am posting the story of a soldier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine about training in Germany under the guidance of US instructors:

• There were many fighters with combat experience in the unit, but the program was still made as for recruits.
• Classes lasted for 6 hours, until lunch. Most of it was theory. After dinner, it was frankly not her to do.
• Shootings were carried out once a month. Shooting at targets at 100-200-300 meters, for everything about everything - three stores.
• A week taught how to use maps and give coordinates for strikes. The Americans did not use electronic applications - everything was the old fashioned way, with compasses and pieces of paper. They looked at smartphones and tablets with suspicion: “the equipment will fail, but the papers are always with you.” Familiar, isn't it?
• A similar situation with UAVs: according to the author, US soldiers have no concept of using copters at all. “They don’t even have an analogue of the Chinese Mavic 3, it was a shock for us.”
• Artillery adjustment exercises were interesting, but also not suitable for the Ukrainian conflict: “for them, the challenge of artillery is to suppress one target and the mission is completed. This concept is unlikely to work for us, with a limited amount of ammunition, and a huge number of targets".

 :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 25, 2023, 13:48
German stockers! Tell the Bundeswehr that the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not have modern aircraft and helicopters, and therefore the Armed Forces of Ukraine are forced to gnaw through the defenses and minefields of Russians using the technologies of the First World War. And ask the Bundeswehr if he will send his German soldiers on the offensive without air support?
 :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 25, 2023, 13:53
"The Speaker of the House of Representatives has announced that they will initiate impeachment of Mr. Biden for acts of corruption when he was Vice President."

What has Biden already done there?  :-\ ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on July 25, 2023, 18:52
:o >:( >:( >:(
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html)
German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive.
...

I cannot read the article since it is behind a paywall, but from what I can read, it looks like this was a secret paper (Geheimdokument) that was not meant to publicly critize the Ukrainian army.

I think it is a totally normal procedure for an army to analyse conflicts in which the army's country is indirectly involved. Particularly if the side supported in the conflict is currently not performing as well as was hoped, so that the army or it's government can perhaps offer further training or advice or deliver weapons that have been identified as important for improving the performance.

The document shouldn't have been leaked, though.

It should also be noted that "Bild" is a tabloid with a somewhat tarnished reputation. They tend to exaggerate things.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 02:15
Yes, the information somehow got to the journalists. The information was originally not for the media.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 05:04
https://youtu.be/GpeHX5dOP_w

Ukrainian journalists asked Jake Sullivan uncomfortable questions about Ukraine.  ;D ;D ;D
A lot of people in Ukraine don't like Jake Sullivan, people think he works for putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 05:16
German opposition rejects criticism of Ukrainian counteroffensive

Roderich Kiesewetter, former Bundeswehr general (Armed Forces of Germany) and a defence spokesperson for the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), which is in opposition to the Scholz government, said he rejected criticism of the Ukrainian Defence Forces and accused Western partners of insufficient and untimely assistance to Ukraine.

Details: The politician alleged that the "document", which he has never seen, criticises Ukrainian methods of conducting an offensive that do not comply with the rules prescribed in textbooks, and are therefore not functional.

Quote: "I reject such criticism on principle, because we Germans, the Bundeswehr, are not in the trenches and therefore should not criticise while sitting in our warm chairs and without any information about the situation on the ground. Ukraine has to rely on its own experience and, in the end, make do with the very little material it receives for support."

Details: According to the official, Ukraine has to look for any weaknesses in Russian defence and cut off supply routes for Russian troops as much as possible. A real combined arms battle is impossible in these circumstances, as Ukraine lacks combat aircraft, anti-drone and air defence equipment, long-range weapons and, above all, sufficient ammunition.

The former German army general noted that the Bundeswehr would not have gone into battle without proper air defence and direct air support.

Moreover, Kiesewetter continued, it was the hesitation of partner states, especially Germany, that led to Ukraine losing for almost a year, while Russia was able to significantly expand its defence lines and dig deep trenches. Consequently, it is now much more difficult for Ukraine to move forward with the liberation of its territories.

"Our delays in supplying tanks, fighter jets, attack helicopters, drones and long-range munitions such as ATACMS and Taurus cruise missiles, as well as insufficient production of artillery ammunition, mean that Ukraine is making slow progress and suffering more casualties. Because the time factor is crucial," the politician said.

He is convinced that the partners have provided Ukraine with too few weapons and too late. And this harms Ukrainian soldiers, who now have to overcome powerful defences. Perhaps the Ukrainian army is not acting according to Bundeswehr textbooks, but is fighting according to its own experience and understanding, in accordance with the real conditions on the frontline, which is more than 1,500 km long, the former general said.

"It is very bold to criticise when Germany is to blame for the slow progress: Ukraine's biggest problem is that it has lost a year due to the delay in arms deliveries," said the representative of the CDU, the largest opposition party in the German parliament.

He recalled that the terror against civilian Ukrainians does not stop, missile and drone attacks continue daily, and air defence is unable to protect civilians in the first place. But despite all this, the brave Ukrainian soldiers managed to liberate as much territory in five weeks as Russia occupied in six months.

"It depends on the states that support Ukraine how successful and fast its liberation offensive will be. We can immediately send ATACMS, F16s, Taurus and other main battle tanks. This is more sensible than sitting in an armchair and commenting on the progress of the frontline, which we in Germany cannot understand at all. Moreover, we would not send our troops into such difficult situations. It's a shame," the German deputy concluded.
______

Excellent criticism of the Democrats, the EU and NATO!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 26, 2023, 05:59
:o >:( >:( >:(
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/geheim-papier-enthuellt-bundeswehr-kritisiert-erstmals-die-ukraine-armee-84802800.bild.html)
German Defence Ministry points out shortcomings of Ukrainian counteroffensive.
The Bundeswehr has criticised the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine during the counteroffensive, stating that they are using the skills acquired during training abroad incorrectly.
The German military considers the division of combat units one of the main disadvantages of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. They remark that "a joint battle leadership is not recognizable".

Not only does this "increase the risk of friendly fire", but it also leads to "manoeuvring elements lacking in focus [because the soldiers are trying] to build up [their] own momentum or establish fire superiority".

In other words, as long as Ukraine divides the brigades which have undergone training in the West into groups of 10-30 soldiers, isolated from the rest of the troops, neither Western training, nor superior armament, nor large quantity of manpower will be of any use.

In addition to this, Bundeswehr also criticised the training of experienced Ukrainian soldiers, who allegedly learn the principles of Western training worse than others, or do not participate in it at all.

It is stated in the document that the command staff sometimes demonstrates "considerable deficiencies in leadership and in the application of management processes at the respective level, which sometimes leads to wrong and dangerous decisions".
These factors – the separation of combat units and absence of proper training of command staff – may explain the slow advancement of the Ukrainian forces during the counteroffensive.
_________

Or maybe the Germans should come to Ukraine and show how to fight the Russians? Instead of telling there from under the NATO umbrella what Ukraine should do and how to do it.
__________

I am posting the story of a soldier of the Armed Forces of Ukraine about training in Germany under the guidance of US instructors:

• There were many fighters with combat experience in the unit, but the program was still made as for recruits.
• Classes lasted for 6 hours, until lunch. Most of it was theory. After dinner, it was frankly not her to do.
• Shootings were carried out once a month. Shooting at targets at 100-200-300 meters, for everything about everything - three stores.
• A week taught how to use maps and give coordinates for strikes. The Americans did not use electronic applications - everything was the old fashioned way, with compasses and pieces of paper. They looked at smartphones and tablets with suspicion: “the equipment will fail, but the papers are always with you.” Familiar, isn't it?
• A similar situation with UAVs: according to the author, US soldiers have no concept of using copters at all. “They don’t even have an analogue of the Chinese Mavic 3, it was a shock for us.”
• Artillery adjustment exercises were interesting, but also not suitable for the Ukrainian conflict: “for them, the challenge of artillery is to suppress one target and the mission is completed. This concept is unlikely to work for us, with a limited amount of ammunition, and a huge number of targets".

 :-\ :-\ :-\

Your intentions here are completely unclear to me and what you are doing here again actually only shows how unserious and arbitrary your conclusions are.

You refer to a single report in a questionable German tabloid (probably because this report fits exactly into your weird world view) and construct a general German opinion of the Bundeswehr.

Apart from the fact that the origin of the paper is unclear, the opinion of most military experts and Bundeswehr officials in other public media is exactly opposite to this paper: Most of them admit that the military aid came too hesitantly and that Russia therefore had enough time to build up its defensive positions.

If you don't have a clue and have obviously completely lost the overview, then please hold back a little with the permanent country bashing in a certain direction.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 06:16
RalfLiebhold, I don't see any official statements from the Bundeswehr yet. Information hit the Internet, which means there was a reaction.
If you do not agree with my opinion, you can not read me.

p.s. Roderich Kiesewetter would not say all this if everything was clean and beautiful in the German information space.
Ukraine is at war not only with Russians on the battlefield, but also with Russian agents in other countries of the world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 26, 2023, 07:24
RalfLiebhold, I don't see any official statements from the Bundeswehr yet. Information hit the Internet, which means there was a reaction.
If you do not agree with my opinion, you can not read me.

p.s. Roderich Kiesewetter would not say all this if everything was clear and beautiful in the German information space.
Ukraine is at war not only with Russians on the battlefield, but also with Russian agents in other countries of the world.

I continue to not know what you are alluding to here.

There are numerous past statements by Bundeswehr officials that paint a different picture than this ominous paper. So this paper does not describe, as you interpret it, an official German opinion. It is in the nature of things that there are also dissenting opinions, and this is part of a democratic, open society.

And yes, the space of information in Germany is completely in order. It is obvious that an information space that allows different opinions is not necessarily clear and beautiful.

It's probably actually because I really "can't read you"


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 08:41
RalfLiebhold, I don't see any official statements from the Bundeswehr yet. Information hit the Internet, which means there was a reaction.
If you do not agree with my opinion, you can not read me.

p.s. Roderich Kiesewetter would not say all this if everything was clear and beautiful in the German information space.
Ukraine is at war not only with Russians on the battlefield, but also with Russian agents in other countries of the world.

I continue to not know what you are alluding to here.

There are numerous past statements by Bundeswehr officials that paint a different picture than this ominous paper. So this paper does not describe, as you interpret it, an official German opinion. It is in the nature of things that there are also dissenting opinions, and this is part of a democratic, open society.

And yes, the space of information in Germany is completely in order. It is obvious that an information space that allows different opinions is not necessarily clear and beautiful.

It's probably actually because I really "can't read you"
My point is that the Bundeswehr has leaked information that is not in the public domain. From this information it follows that in Germany there are forces that want to denigrate the Armed Forces of Ukraine and force Ukraine to sign a surrender - to give Crimea, Donbass and the land corridor to Crimea to the Russians. Some Democrats are also nurturing such ideas. All these agents of Putin want to say that the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot fight and NATO is wasting money and weapons helping Ukraine. Although, in fact, the success of the Armed Forces of Ukraine directly depends on the volume and range of arms supplies.
No one is under any illusions about Germany, it is enough that the Kremlin agent Merkel did everything for Putin to occupy Ukraine. And this Merkel of yours is still at large and is not in prison, where she belongs.

And there is no need to cover up the work of KGB agents with the word democracy. Russian agents only need to be liquidated, according to the laws of war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on July 26, 2023, 09:09
You have the patience of a saint Ralf.

The more I read, the more I wonder if some people are actually not interested in getting Ukraine the help it needs.

Not that anything we write here makes a difference to the horrible war.

edit - typo
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 09:26
You have the patience of a saint Ralf.

The more I read, the less I wonder if some people are actually not interested in getting Ukraine the help it needs.

Not that anything we write here makes a difference to the horrible war.
That's the problem, that Ukraine does not receive the necessary assistance in sufficient volume. Perhaps in your media they tell you otherwise, or rather they lie.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 26, 2023, 10:20
You have the patience of a saint Ralf.

The more I read, the less I wonder if some people are actually not interested in getting Ukraine the help it needs.

Not that anything we write here makes a difference to the horrible war.

Thank you Cobalt, but after Stoker's last postings, my patience of a saint has now expired.
Let's leave him alone again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 10:33
Let's leave him alone again.
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 04:51
British defence minister insists Ukraine’s counter-offensive is not failing
James Heappey dismissed concerns that the operation is stalling after a leaked German military report questioned Kyiv's tactics

Ukraine’s counter-offensive is progressing according to a plan worked out with Britain and the US over the winter, the UK’s armed forces minister has said.

James Heappey dismissed concerns that the operation is stalling after a leaked German military assessment questioned Ukraine’s progress and tactics.

Mr Heappey said Kyiv was being “appropriately cautious” in refusing to send large numbers of men and Western-supplied weapons into dense Russian minefields.

The Ukrainian military, he said, was holding back enough firepower to make a breakthrough at the right time.

“Ukraine is meeting our expectations at the moment. They are broadly delivering the plan that they worked out with us, and the Americans and others, over the last winter,” he told The Telegraph during an interview in Busan, South Korea.

“This is not a Hollywood movie. There was not going to be a moment when the tanks started to roll, and the music started to play, and a war montage played out and then - at the end of it - victory by September.”

It came as a Western official also hit back at claims that Ukraine is making slow progress. The source said Kyiv was still waiting to commit a second wave of its forces on the best possible avenue for attack.

“We’re still waiting for the Ukrainians to commit a second echelon against whichever axis they decide upon,” the official said.

Ukraine is currently attacking in three directions: in Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Bakhmut.

On Wednesday night, US officials said the main thrust of Ukraine’s counter-offensive had finally begun in Zaporizhzhia, with thousands of men and Western arms committed to the assault.

‘Painstaking progress’
The official rejected the leaked assessment from the Bundeswehr, which claimed Ukraine was pushing forward too cautiously and failing to implement tactics its soldiers learned in Western boot camps.

“I don’t think that’s particularly fair,” they said. “The Ukrainians will use the equipment as they see best and it’s really hard to run a commentary when you’re sat thousands of miles from the front line.”

Mr Heappey also said Ukraine was acting wisely in keeping most of its brigades equipped with Western kit “hidden from sight” and out of the fight.

“It is very easy to lose tens of thousands of lives just trying to get through the minefields and then you have nothing left with which to break through once you are there,” he said.

“So, I think the painstaking progress they are making is necessary, and then when they get through the obstacle belts they have still got plenty of combat power ready to use to break through.”

Ukrainian soldiers are having to dismount from Western armoured vehicles and remove mines from fields by hand, the Western official said, partly as a result of a lack of demining vehicles.

Leaders in Kyiv have admitted the offensive has made only limited advances, liberating some 150 square miles, or about 0.3 per cent of the territory gained by Russia since the invasion last year.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 04:51
Russia will ‘never be a pushover’
In parts, the Russian defences are almost 19 miles deep. Alongside shortages in demining equipment, Ukraine also faces shortfalls in crucial airpower. Kyiv’s soldiers have been cut down by strafing from Russian helicopters as they attempt to advance.

The leaked German military assessment claimed that Kyiv was failing to implement Nato-standard tactics by attacking in units composed of too few men - and not simultaneously engaging infantry, artillery and tanks in “combined arms warfare”.

It blamed Ukraine for promoting combat veterans over unproven soldiers who had been trained at Western boot camps.

Mr Heappey, who is a front-runner to replace Ben Wallace as defence secretary, defended the Ukrainian advance, saying it had to be acknowledged that Kyiv was up against defences that had been prepared for six months.

While Russia’s professional army is greatly diminished and relies more on demoralised conscripts, Kyiv still faces an adversary that has a strong fighting tradition and will “never be a pushover, no matter the odds,” he said.

The minister, who is in Busan for the 70th anniversary of the armistice that halted the Korean War in 1953, said he would raise the prospect of Seoul making a bigger contribution to Ukraine’s war effort in conversations with Korean officials.

Pressure has been mounting on South Korea, which has one of the world’s biggest stockpiles of ammunition and a vibrant defence industry, to supply arms to Ukraine that it desperately needs.

Kyiv’s ambassador to Seoul recently told the BBC that South Korean weapons could “change the course of the war,” but it has so far limited its support to joining international sanctions and providing more than $200 million (£155 million)  in humanitarian aid.

“If the Korean government is able and willing to provide more to Ukraine that would be incredibly welcome,” said Mr Heappey.

But he recognised that South Korea, which faces constant warmongering from the nuclear-armed North, stockpiled munitions and maintained manufacturing capacity as it faced “an existential threat that they consider to be live and present every day.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/26/minister-james-heappey-ukraine-counter-offensive-succeeding/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/26/minister-james-heappey-ukraine-counter-offensive-succeeding/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 04:52
Here again about the information that was received from German intelligence.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/25/german-military-ukraine-counter-offensive-too-slow/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/07/25/german-military-ukraine-counter-offensive-too-slow/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 04:54
I don’t quite understand what James Heappey is talking about, what kind of plans are these without aviation and ATACMS missiles?....
 And what can be achieved without aviation?....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 04:55
While NATO and Biden are thinking about whether to give Ukraine aviation and missiles or not, the Russians are not sitting still, they are preparing. And this is clearly to the benefit of the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 07:06
Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022.

This law was drafted and submitted by the Republican Party for Biden's signature. And who here constantly says that the Republicans are Putin's friends ....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 27, 2023, 09:33
Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022.

This law was drafted and submitted by the Republican Party for Biden's signature. And who here constantly says that the Republicans are Putin's friends ....

The bill passed in the House of Representatives by a vote of 417–10 on April 28, 2022.

The ten representatives, all from the Republican Party, who voted against the bill were: Andy Biggs of Arizona, Dan Bishop of North Carolina, Warren Davidson of Ohio, Matt Gaetz of Florida, Paul Gosar of Arizona, Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Thomas Massie of Kentucky, Ralph Norman of South Carolina, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania and Tom Tiffany of Wisconsin.


All these are republican extremists. Extremely vocal and influential in the MAGA world.
Their number grew stronger on the next bill, when 70+ opposed additional aid for Ukraine. Again, all of them were MAGA "republicans".

When trump will win the nomination, this number will become a majority. The party will rally, again, behind their leader's isolationist view of the world (as they did in 2016).
And then you will kiss goodbye to any subsequent aid for Ukraine.

You are failing to ackowledge that all these bills had unanimity from the democrats and were endorsed and signed into law by a democrat president.

But you can continue to dream about what the GoP once was (or what it could be without trump's ideology) ... ::)
In reality, Ukraine's best bet is a democrat majority, and a democrat in the White House.
Like it or not.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 11:02
Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022.

This law was drafted and submitted by the Republican Party for Biden's signature. And who here constantly says that the Republicans are Putin's friends ....

The bill passed in the House of Representatives by a vote of 417–10 on April 28, 2022.

The ten representatives, all from the Republican Party, who voted against the bill were: Andy Biggs of Arizona, Dan Bishop of North Carolina, Warren Davidson of Ohio, Matt Gaetz of Florida, Paul Gosar of Arizona, Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, Thomas Massie of Kentucky, Ralph Norman of South Carolina, Scott Perry of Pennsylvania and Tom Tiffany of Wisconsin.


All these are republican extremists. Extremely vocal and influential in the MAGA world.
Their number grew stronger on the next bill, when 70+ opposed additional aid for Ukraine. Again, all of them were MAGA "republicans".

When trump will win the nomination, this number will become a majority. The party will rally, again, behind their leader's isolationist view of the world (as they did in 2016).
And then you will kiss goodbye to any subsequent aid for Ukraine.

You are failing to ackowledge that all these bills had unanimity from the democrats and were endorsed and signed into law by a democrat president.

But you can continue to dream about what the GoP once was (or what it could be without trump's ideology) ... ::)
In reality, Ukraine's best bet is a democrat majority, and a democrat in the White House.
Like it or not.
For Ukraine, the best president is Mike Pence. Naturally, Ukraine is forced to work with Biden, but this does not mean that the Ukrainians are happy with him.
Zero Talent, I gave the facts, and you are engaged in pre-election political campaigning and anti-advertising of the Republicans. You have already decided everything for them.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 11:10
The International Fencing Federation (FIE) decided to disqualify Ukrainian Olga Harlan after her victory over Russian athlete Anna Smirnova.
 >:( >:( >:(

Read more here who this Russian Anna Smirnova is.
https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1684542883901181954 (https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1684542883901181954)

The photo features Anna Smirnova, the Russian fencer who Ukrainian Olha #Kharlan refused to shake hands with at the World Championships after winning a fair bout. As you can see, she openly admires the Russian army, which is killing Ukrainians and destroying our cities. The International Fencing Federation disqualified the Ukrainian representative for not shaking hands with the Russian.

@FIE_fencing
, should this be taken as a position? Doesn't Russian money smell of blood?



Ukrainian fencing star Olha Kharlan refuses to shake hands with Russian opponent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo7Ai8BMTUU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo7Ai8BMTUU)

Moment furious Ukrainian fencing star refuses to shake hands with Russian opponent over Vladimir Putin's invasion of her country. Olga Kharlan beat Russia's Anna Smirnova on the red piste during the world...

This is the moment a Ukrainian fencer refused to shake hands with her Russian opponent today after defeating her in a bout, prompting a sulking sit-in protest.

Ukraine's four-time world sabre champion Olha Kharlan faced off against Russian Anna Smirnova on Thursday at the world championships in Milan, Italy.

Kharlan came out victorious, but as Smirnova stepped forward at the end of the bout to shake hands, the Ukrainian instead held out her blade to stop her approaching.

While it wasn't picked up on the microphones clearly over the sound of cheers from the stands, Kharlan - holding her blue and yellow painted helmet to one side - was also seen exchanging words with her opponent after beating her 15-7 in the bout.

Despite the Ukrainian saying ahead of the contest that she would refuse to  shake Smirnova's hand, the Russian struck a bemused figure on the piste, before staging a sulking ten-minute protest over the snub.

The Ukrainian sports ministry late Wednesday changed its previous policy from barring athletes from facing Russians or Belarusians competing as neutrals.

The new policy says Ukrainians are barred from facing those athletes who 'represent the Russian Federation and Belarus'.

Smirnova was competing as a neutral.
_________

Glory to Ukraine! There should be only fire contact with the Russians, there should not be any handshakes. And it is very strange that sports organizations support Russians. How can you shake hands with an enemy and someone who does not deserve respect.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 27, 2023, 12:52

For Ukraine, the best president is Mike Pence. Naturally, Ukraine is forced to work with Biden, but this does not mean that the Ukrainians are happy with him.
Zero Talent, I gave the facts, and you are engaged in pre-election political campaigning and anti-advertising of the Republicans. You have already decided everything for them.  ;D

Mike Pence has ZERO chances to be the GoP candidate, and less than ZERO chances to become president  ;D.

This is no pre-election campaign.

I am simply explaining you how things practically work in the US, and what is best for Ukraine today, from the US point of view.

You keep on dreaming the past, about hypothetical scenarios that will never happen, while you bury your head in the sand, avoiding to acknowledge that trump and MAGA are a real and present danger for Ukraine.
When you do that you are alienating your true friends and helping grow the so called "Ukraine fatigue".  :(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 27, 2023, 13:01
Olha Kharlan fenced with the future President Zelenskyy on a humorous program.  ;D ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/HLeiSMCOYEI?t=204

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on July 27, 2023, 13:17
When you do that you are alienating your true friends and helping grow the so called "Ukraine fatigue".  :(

That's exactly my impression, too, which is why I've posted here occasionally.
Stoker does not only himself no favor with his contributions here, but ultimately also Ukraine.
Exactly for your mentioned reason.
I find this not quite harmless and hope that the range of this thread is not large.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 27, 2023, 13:46
The International Fencing Federation (FIE) decided to disqualify Ukrainian Olga Harlan after her victory over Russian athlete Anna Smirnova.
 >:( >:( >:(

Physical touching (handshaking) must be consensual.

What is mind-blowing is that the head of the international fencing federation is a sanctioned russian oligarch, the former head of the russian fencing federation, Alisher Usmanov.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alisher_Usmanov


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on July 27, 2023, 16:35
When you do that you are alienating your true friends and helping grow the so called "Ukraine fatigue".  :(

That's exactly my impression, too, which is why I've posted here occasionally.
Stoker does not only himself no favor with his contributions here, but ultimately also Ukraine.
Exactly for your mentioned reason.
I find this not quite harmless and hope that the range of this thread is not large.

I've had exactly the same problem and I thought it was just me. I have Polish/Ukrainian family on my mother's side, and I was always very concerned about what's happening in Ukraine - until now.

At first it was informative - until he got onto the fake news/political misinformation and attacking other countries and USA leaders without understanding the truth about what is really going on - and stubbornly refusing to let go.

This thread has been read over 25,000 times so maybe it is making a difference to others as well.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lina on July 27, 2023, 18:12
Deleted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on July 28, 2023, 01:16
When you do that you are alienating your true friends and helping grow the so called "Ukraine fatigue".  :(

That's exactly my impression, too, which is why I've posted here occasionally.
Stoker does not only himself no favor with his contributions here, but ultimately also Ukraine.
Exactly for your mentioned reason.
I find this not quite harmless and hope that the range of this thread is not large.

I've had exactly the same problem and I thought it was just me. I have Polish/Ukrainian family on my mother's side, and I was always very concerned about what's happening in Ukraine - until now.

At first it was informative - until he got onto the fake news/political misinformation and attacking other countries and USA leaders without understanding the truth about what is really going on - and stubbornly refusing to let go.

This thread has been read over 25,000 times so maybe it is making a difference to others as well.

This is what war does Annie. It's not only a battlefield war, but also a media and online propaganda war with very biased reporting, and often also clear misinformation that only has one purpose: get people to hate the other side.

I'm sad too to see people who I sympathize with (Ukrainians in this case) spreading misinformation that often even looks like Russian propaganda. Propaganda meant to divide the west. It does more harm than good. But then I ask myself: what would I do when I am in the middle of a conflict like this, directly affected, confronted with an aggressor that bombs my country to pieces? Would I be able to keep a clear mind and see the nuances? Probably not.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 28, 2023, 02:09
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F2DVS5LacAMFz7Z?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 28, 2023, 02:31
Ukraine and Ukrainians will not take part in the US presidential elections and the election campaign. Ukraine will work with any US president. Good things were done during the Trump administration and good things were done during the Biden administration. But besides the good things, bad things were also done.
Ukraine will both thank and criticize any US president and any government in the EU, if there are grounds for this. Learn to take criticism and put pressure on your governments.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 28, 2023, 03:41
Exclusive: The CIA's Blind Spot about the Ukraine War

https://www.newsweek.com/2023/07/21/exclusive-cias-blind-spot-about-ukraine-war-1810355.html (https://www.newsweek.com/2023/07/21/exclusive-cias-blind-spot-about-ukraine-war-1810355.html)

 :-\ :-\ :-\
Backstage fuss.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 28, 2023, 14:05
Harlan suspension was lifted, and there will be no more handshakes in fencing.

https://www.repubblica.it/sport/vari/2023/07/28/news/olga_kharlan_ucraina_russia_mondiali_schermai-409270943/ (https://www.repubblica.it/sport/vari/2023/07/28/news/olga_kharlan_ucraina_russia_mondiali_schermai-409270943/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 30, 2023, 11:40
Olga Kharlan with the last blow brought Ukraine to the semi-finals of the World Fencing Championship. In the 1/4 finals, the Ukrainian team beat the US team with a score of 45:44. At the same time, it was Harlan who delivered the decisive blow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o68-JWtiWnc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o68-JWtiWnc)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on July 30, 2023, 17:35
Speaking about "not mixing sports and politics": no such thing, sports and politics are more intertwined than anything, like it or not.

Those who are asking you to keep them apart, simply don't like your politics. On the other hand, they feel pride and are infused with overwhelming patriotism when their politics are promoted in sport.

Here is similar example, speaking volumes years after:

Wladyslaw Kozakiewicz was a Polish pole vaulter who competed during the 1970s and 1980s. His most famous moment came during the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow. In the final, Kozakiewicz was competing against the heavily favored Soviet athlete, Konstantin Volkov, in front of a hostile home crowd.

When Kozakiewicz cleared a height of 5.78 meters (18.9 ft), breaking the Olympic record, the Soviet crowd responded with boos and jeers. In response to the hostile atmosphere, Kozakiewicz raised his arm with a rude gesture known as the "Kozakiewicz gesture" towards the crowd. This gesture was seen as a defiant and bold response to the unsportsmanlike behavior of the crowd.

His gesture further fueled the tension and made him even more of a hero in Poland, while at the same time making him a target for criticism from the Soviet media and officials. After the Olympics, the Soviet ambassador to Poland demanded that Kozakiewicz be stripped of his medal over his "insult to the Soviet people". The official response of the Polish government was that the gesture had been an involuntary muscle spasm caused by his exertion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras_d%27honneur
 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 31, 2023, 03:48
in front of a hostile home crowd.
The Russians have not changed, but they have become even more evil and turned into Na.zis and Rashists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on July 31, 2023, 04:54
Ukraine, Bakhmut. Video about the use of combat drones by the Armed Forces of Ukraine against Russian invaders.
English subtitles are included.
https://youtu.be/kbzsD_1caLc
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 01, 2023, 03:59
(https://i.ibb.co/J3v5CHR/Screenshot-524.jpg)

Ukraine and Ukrainians. The map shows the fair borders of Ukraine.

Photo from 1919. There is no Soviet Union yet, but there is Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 01, 2023, 04:58
https://youtu.be/jPESS43qiPE

Russians are being beaten in different countries of the world.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 01, 2023, 07:01
(https://i.ibb.co/J3v5CHR/Screenshot-524.jpg)

Ukraine and Ukrainians. The map shows the fair borders of Ukraine.

Photo from 1919. There is no Soviet Union yet, but there is Ukraine.
Be careful with that revisionist map!
It doesn't include Ukranian territories that use to belong to Romania, but now part of the Ukrainian internationally recognized borders (by Romania inclusive). These territories were seized by Stalin in 1940 and given to the soviet republic of Ukraine.
By promoting this map, are you saying that you want to give up the western part of Ukraine to extend it to the east?
I don't think so.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 01, 2023, 08:24
Be careful with that revisionist map!
It doesn't include Ukranian territories that use to belong to Romania, but now part of the Ukrainian internationally recognized borders (by Romania inclusive). These territories were seized by Stalin in 1940 and given to the soviet republic of Ukraine.
By promoting this map, are you saying that you want to give up the western part of Ukraine to extend it to the east?
I don't think so.
I think this map rather says that Crimea and Kuban are Ukrainian territory. On the map we see Lviv, which means that this map also takes into account those territories that at that time were under the occupation of Poland. The war for the independence of Ukraine was historically fought not only against the Russians.

In the context of the war with the Russian occupiers, this map is of great military importance. To ensure the security of Ukraine from Russian orcs and zombies from a military point of view, the Armed Forces of Ukraine must take control of the Kuban. This is obvious, and you also gave a map of the correct offensive. Historically, mostly Ukrainians lived on the territory of the Kuban.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 01, 2023, 09:07
I understand what you are trying to say, but this is not helping you.
What matters is the internationally recognized Ukrainian borders of today (including Crimea, of course).
If you open that can of worms, if you start claiming territories inside the official russian borders, then Romania could also claim territories inside Ukraine, territories occupied and annexed by the soviet army in 1940, territories that historically belonged to Romania or Romanian principalities.
You would not like that, I'm sure.

Do yourself a favor and don't promote revisionist maps, anymore.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 01, 2023, 09:21
I understand what you are trying to say, but this is not helping you.
What matters is the internationally recognized Ukrainian borders of today, including Crimea.
If you open that can of worms, if you start claiming territories inside the official russian borders, then Romania could also claim territories inside Ukraine, territories occupied and annexed by the soviet army in 1940, territories that historically belonged to Romania or Romanian principalities.
You would not like that, I'm sure.

Do yourself a favor and don't promote revisionist maps, anymore.
You do not take everything into account, or rather, you argue at the level of 2021 and earlier. In 2022, everything has changed and the whole world has changed. I'm not saying that Ukraine should officially annex the territory of Russia. I'm talking about the fact that in the conditions of the war with Russia, the Armed Forces of Ukraine can enter any territory of Russia and take this territory under fire control in order to secure Ukraine. When there is a war, the laws and rules of war are completely different. Ukraine inflicts military strikes on the territory of Russia, this is the same thing. But if the Russian aggression against Ukraine stops, the Russians want to pay reparations, hand over all their war criminals, sign their capitulation, then naturally Ukraine will not continue to occupy the territories of Russia. But I will tell you that it is more likely that Russia will cease to exist as a country than it will stop its aggression against Ukraine. But when Russia ceases to exist, there may already be options here, for example, residents of the same Kuban may want to join Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 01, 2023, 09:30
I agree that it's justified to fight the russian occupiers and to strike inside their official territory, to cripple their logistics, and the support for the invasion.

That's a totally different story than the one you showed on that map.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 01, 2023, 10:05
I agree that it's justified to fight the russian occupiers and to strike inside their official territory, to cripple their logistics, and the support for the invasion.

That's a totally different story than the one you showed on that map.
The Armed Forces of Ukraine can not only strike at the territory of Russia, but also the Armed Forces of Ukraine can enter the territory of Russia and take control of those territories from which aggression against Ukraine is coming.
Well, the map simply shows where the Ukrainians have always lived. It's just a coincidence that, from a military point of view, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, it is advisable to enter the territory of the Kuban.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 02, 2023, 07:24
Polish Defence Ministry confirms that Belarusian helicopters violated state border.

On Tuesday evening, the Polish Ministry of National Defence confirmed that two Belarusian helicopters violated Polish airspace.

Details: The Polish Defence Ministry claims that Polish airspace was violated by helicopters that carried out exercises near the border. Minsk previously informed Warsaw about these exercises.

"The border crossing took place near the city of Belovezha at a very low altitude, which made it difficult to detect it with radar systems. Therefore, this morning, the operational command of the Polish Armed Forces reported in a communique that Polish radar systems detected no violations of Polish airspace", the Ministry explained.

In response to the incident, Mariusz Błaszczak, Polish National Defence Minister, ordered an increase in the number of soldiers on the border and the deployment of additional forces and equipment, in particular combat helicopters.

Poland also informed NATO about the incident and decided to summon the Charge D'Affaires of Belarus to the Foreign Ministry to explain the incident.

"(...) Russia and Belarus have recently stepped up their hybrid actions against Poland. Taking into account possible further provocations, we call for responsible dissemination and comment on information that can be used by the Russian and Belarusian regimes," the statement concludes.

Mercenaries of the Wagner Group PMC have been moving from Russia to Belarus for some time; they moved there after an attempted mutiny in Russia. The Polish side has repeatedly stressed that the Wagnerites pose a threat to Poland, and reinforced the Belarusian-Polish border.

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has announced the relocation of a group of mercenaries from the Wagner Group to the Suwałki Gap, which connects Poland with the Baltic States and also separates the territory of Russia's Kaliningrad Oblast and Belarus.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 02, 2023, 07:29
Now I will explain what is happening, the Russians are starting a war against the EU and NATO countries. Poland made a big mistake by not shooting down these helicopters. Two helicopters could well have landed armed diversionists carrying explosives. There are no borders between the EU countries, and these saboteurs can reach any country, such as Germany, and commit diversion. Does NATO hide its head in the sand like an ostrich? The more NATO will talk about the world, the more Russian helicopters, planes and missiles will fly over NATO countries. Not so long ago, a Russian missile flew across the entire territory of Poland and fell, there was zero reaction from NATO. Before the arrival of the Republicans in the United States, another year and a half, during which time the Russians can have time to occupy half of the EU.
Is NATO a flock of ostriches or a military bloc?

Democrats! Give Ukraine fighter planes and missiles! Don't be ostriches!

(https://r6z4d5g2.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/straus_golovu-v-pesok.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 02, 2023, 08:00
2015 Russian Sukhoi Su-24 shootdown

A Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter jet shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24M attack aircraft near the Syria–Turkey border on 24 November 2015.[1][2] According to Turkey, the aircraft was fired upon while in Turkish airspace because it violated the border up to a depth of 2.19 kilometres (1.36 miles) for about 17 seconds after being warned to change its heading ten times over a period of five minutes before entering the airspace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown

__________

Now Russian planes do not fly to Turkey.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 02, 2023, 09:37
From a related topic.

This very contradiction and lack of transparency is what led to a Chinese spy balloons entering our air space. The lack of action by the Biden administration cause widespread fear and confusion and only after (some) days and only after it had travelled the entire continental United States were two jets deployed to shoot it down. This flip flopping ... (from memory)  she goes on to say change is needed and with that she yields back her time.

As I understand it, China has collected a lot of military information on US soil. My question is, can the Democrats at least protect the United States?  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 03, 2023, 04:37
New major poll of Republican electorate show that majority do not want to send more aid to Ukraine. Only those who have an unfavourable view of Trump and/or are moderate, and possibly a portion of those willing to vote for Biden are more in favour.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/upshot/poll-trump-republican-primary.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/31/upshot/poll-trump-republican-primary.html)

Screen grab attached.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 03, 2023, 09:17
New major poll of Republican electorate show that majority do not want to send more aid to Ukraine.
As I understand it, part of his electorate, about 60%, do not want to increase assistance to Ukraine. This means that they are not against aid to Ukraine, they just do not want it to increase. These statistics mean nothing, really.
Ukraine's problem is not that it is given few weapons, the problem is that the Democrats do not give Ukraine what it needs on the battlefield. How, for example, would Australian soldiers conduct offensive operations without aircraft? How can you fight at all without long-range missiles? Why do Democrats, when they give something, forbid firing these weapons where there is a military need for their use? There are a lot of bad questions for the Democrats.
I'm not saying here that the Republicans will be better, but now it is the Democrats who are creating Ukraine's problems.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 03, 2023, 09:27
I perfectly understand those people who live in the USA and who do not like the internal politics of the Republicans. If I lived in the US, I would also vote for the Democrats. But if you look at US foreign policy, then the Republicans, in my opinion, have a better foreign policy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 03, 2023, 11:05
I perfectly understand those people who live in the USA and who do not like the internal politics of the Republicans. If I lived in the US, I would also vote for the Democrats. But if you look at US foreign policy, then the Republicans, in my opinion, have a better foreign policy.

Again, and for the 5th time, because you bury your head in the sand like the ostriches on your previous post, refusing to face the reality: you are assuming that the GoP is still made of those represented by the 3rd column in Annie's table.
This is wishful thinking. These days are gone. The 3rd column is a minority, today. They are only 25%, and even this 25% will shrink, when trump will become their candidate.

While I agree that the current administration can do better, a GoP victory will be a disaster for Ukraine.
Ukraine will be left alone or only with a clealry insufficient EU support.

Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 03, 2023, 11:25
I perfectly understand those people who live in the USA and who do not like the internal politics of the Republicans. If I lived in the US, I would also vote for the Democrats. But if you look at US foreign policy, then the Republicans, in my opinion, have a better foreign policy.
Again, and for the 5th time, because you bury your head in the sand like the ostriches on your previous post, refusing to face the reality: you are assuming that the GoP is still made of those represented by the 3rd column in Annie's table.
This is wishful thinking. These days are gone. The 3rd column is a minority, today. They are only 25%, and even this 25% will shrink, when trump will become their candidate.

While I agree that the current administration can do better, a GoP victory will be a disaster for Ukraine.
Ukraine will be left alone or only with a clealry insufficient EU support.

Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it.
Zero Talent, you have not carefully studied the columns that Annie brought here. Follow the link, it's clearer. I talked about the first 2 columns, and they reflect the desires of 60% of Trump's core electorate. Also, you did not understand what it was about, these people are not against helping Ukraine, they believe that it is given enough. Obviously it means money.
What happens if Trump comes? The EU will pay more for both NATO membership and the war in Ukraine. The US will pay less, respectively. There are hopes that the Republicans will give Ukraine planes, missiles and will not put red lines where you can shoot and where you can’t.
But all this is still a dream, under the Democrats, a lot of bad things for Ukraine can still happen. The same economic sanctions against Russians are very weak.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 03, 2023, 12:33
No worries, I read the article before Annie posted her link.
What matters is that you still have your head in the sand.

Those who say they oppose more aid to Ukraine they actually want to stop ALL aid for Ukraine.
They are opposed to ALL support offered by the current administration.
I see it every day, I live among them, I read what they read...

Too bad the question wasn't phrased this way, maybe then you would have understood how dangerous the new GoP is for Ukraine.

Anyway, not that it matters too much... there is very little of this unintentional self-harm you can do to your country, from outside the US.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 03, 2023, 13:21
Zero Talent, this is your personal interpretation. I am 100% sure that even if the Republicans occupy the White House, assistance to Ukraine will not be stopped.
In fact, the general vision of foreign policy among Democrats and Republicans is the same. But unlike Democrats, Republicans know how to achieve normal results.

Better write about how bad Trump is as a person, how conservative all these Republicans are, how badly they treat women, etc. At least there will be some truth in this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 03, 2023, 14:08
Zero Talent, this is your personal interpretation. I am 100% sure that even if the Republicans occupy the White House, assistance to Ukraine will not be stopped.


Stoker, what facts or polls are you basing this on?


If you read the paragraphs just above and below that graph in the New York Times article above, it says:

"There's the group of voters who may not love Mr. Trump, but who remain open to him in the primary and in some cases support him over the alternatives. It's a group that's broadly reflective of the Republican electorate as a whole. Its somewhat conservative ...

There's also a second group of voters who probably won't support Mr. Trump ... These voters tend to be educated, affluent, moderate, and they're often more than just Trump sceptics ...

These two groups of voters don't just differ on Trump; they disagree on the issues as well. Mr. Trump's skeptics support additional military and economic aid to Ukraine, and comprehensive immigration reform, while they oppose a six-week abortion ban."


In other words, the more moderate or liberal a person is, the more likely they want to continue aiding Ukraine with MILITARY and economic aid. Expand this across the whole USA, and I agree with what Zero says above: a republican win is the worse outcome for Ukraine.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 03, 2023, 14:21

Better write about how bad Trump is as a person, how conservative all these Republicans are,

I don't care much about how bad Trump is as a person, I rather care about how bad his policies and ignorance are for the country.

Besides, being conservative is not a bad thing. I would gladly vote for a "real" republican, realist and fiscally responsible, able to protect personal freedoms and liberties.

But this species is a "rara avis" these days with zero chance to be elected as a GoP candidate. Moderate democrats have occupied this space, while the GoP has drifted into populism and extremism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 03, 2023, 15:21
Zero Talent, this is your personal interpretation. I am 100% sure that even if the Republicans occupy the White House, assistance to Ukraine will not be stopped.


Stoker, what facts or polls are you basing this on?


If you read the paragraphs just above and below that graph in the New York Times article above, it says:

"There's the group of voters who may not love Mr. Trump, but who remain open to him in the primary and in some cases support him over the alternatives. It's a group that's broadly reflective of the Republican electorate as a whole. Its somewhat conservative ...

There's also a second group of voters who probably won't support Mr. Trump ... These voters tend to be educated, affluent, moderate, and they're often more than just Trump sceptics ...

These two groups of voters don't just differ on Trump; they disagree on the issues as well. Mr. Trump's skeptics support additional military and economic aid to Ukraine, and comprehensive immigration reform, while they oppose a six-week abortion ban."


In other words, the more moderate or liberal a person is, the more likely they want to continue aiding Ukraine with MILITARY and economic aid. Expand this across the whole USA, and I agree with what Zero says above: a republican win is the worse outcome for Ukraine.
How on what facts? On real facts. Trump was already president, unlike Obama, he gave Ukraine the FGM-148 Javelin.
You do not quite understand what is written in that article. Additional help or no additional help, these are all abstract things. Ukraine needs concrete assistance, this is aviation and missiles. It's not about money, it's about politics and political will. So the Democrats have no political will.
You write about money all the time, forget about it, money doesn't solve anything. On the battlefield, only weapons decide.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 03, 2023, 15:25

Better write about how bad Trump is as a person, how conservative all these Republicans are,

I don't care much about how bad Trump is as a person, I rather care about how bad his policies and ignorance are for the country.

Besides, being conservative is not a bad thing. I would gladly vote for a "real" republican, realist and fiscally responsible, able to protect personal freedoms and liberties.

But this species is a "rara avis" these days with zero chance to be elected as a GoP candidate. Moderate democrats have occupied this space, while the GoP has drifted into populism and extremism.
So thanks only to populism, the Republicans can win the election. So this is their electoral tactic. I don't care what they say, I have to watch what they do.
Yes, I see that Trump violated many US laws, instigated the storming of the Capitol. Why are Democrats chewing snot? Let them arrest Trump, put him in jail. Or they can't even do that. So who is the ostrich then? Me or Democrats?
And yet, you are constantly betting on one person, on a person. This is not correct, you need to look at the entire party and the policy of this party. So the Republicans are pursuing a normal foreign policy. The United States is not Russia, where all issues are decided by one tsar, dictator and war criminal.

In my opinion, Democrats today are very much like ostriches and impotents. And you yourself see it perfectly.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 03, 2023, 15:33
Why are Democrats chewing snot? Let them arrest Trump, put him in jail. Or they can't even do that. So who is the ostrich then? Me or Democrats?

Democrats cannot arrest anyone. That's not how democracy works.
That's something only the justice system can do.
And only the justice system can send him to jail, not the democrats. And only if he is found guilty, of course.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 03, 2023, 16:04
Zero Talent, this is your personal interpretation. I am 100% sure that even if the Republicans occupy the White House, assistance to Ukraine will not be stopped.


Stoker, what facts or polls are you basing this on?


If you read the paragraphs just above and below that graph in the New York Times article above, it says:

"There's the group of voters who may not love Mr. Trump, but who remain open to him in the primary and in some cases support him over the alternatives. It's a group that's broadly reflective of the Republican electorate as a whole. Its somewhat conservative ...

There's also a second group of voters who probably won't support Mr. Trump ... These voters tend to be educated, affluent, moderate, and they're often more than just Trump sceptics ...

These two groups of voters don't just differ on Trump; they disagree on the issues as well. Mr. Trump's skeptics support additional military and economic aid to Ukraine, and comprehensive immigration reform, while they oppose a six-week abortion ban."


In other words, the more moderate or liberal a person is, the more likely they want to continue aiding Ukraine with MILITARY and economic aid. Expand this across the whole USA, and I agree with what Zero says above: a republican win is the worse outcome for Ukraine.
How on what facts? On real facts. Trump was already president, unlike Obama, he gave Ukraine the FGM-148 Javelin.
You do not quite understand what is written in that article. Additional help or no additional help, these are all abstract things. Ukraine needs concrete assistance, this is aviation and missiles. It's not about money, it's about politics and political will. So the Democrats have no political will.
You write about money all the time, forget about it, money doesn't solve anything. On the battlefield, only weapons decide.

Stoker, I, personally, am not writing about anything - I am just quoting sources from professional pollsters.

Personally, like you and not only for my own Ukrainian family connections, I want the best outcome for Ukraine. But I do, however, think that you are too black and white on a lot of issues and not doing enough research. That, in my opinion, is not helping yourself or others in arriving at the best solution for Ukraine.

War is an extremely difficult issue, especially nowadays when nukes are involved, plus no one knows what is going on in the USA situation room at the moment.

BTW, did you see the recent interview with President Obama and Christiane Amanpour where he addresses the 2014 Ukraine issue? It starts at around 4:50 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3zgCVqqf3Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3zgCVqqf3Q)


Please don't start jumping to conclusions just to support your own previous opinions, be more flexible in understanding what difficult decisions good leaders have to make, without labelling them, and be more open-minded - is all I ask.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 03, 2023, 16:08
Why are Democrats chewing snot? Let them arrest Trump, put him in jail. Or they can't even do that. So who is the ostrich then? Me or Democrats?

Democrats cannot arrest anyone. That's not how democracy works.
That's something only the justice system can do.
And only the justice system can send him to jail, not the democrats. And only if he is found guilty, of course.

"Reminder for those not paying attention: Biden didn't indict Trump. Neither did Garland or Smith. A grand jury of his peers indicted Trump."

~ George Conway. Republican, conservative lawyer, and former husband of Republican political consultant and pollster, Kellyanne Conway.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 03, 2023, 16:12
Trump has a core message. It is: "America First. This core statement is important for you, stocker2014, to understand how Donald Trump thinks. It's about America, it's not about Europe, Asia, Africa, Latin America, South America - and it's not about Ukraine.

Trump is a narcissist. Obsessed with power and greedy for money. It thinks like Putin. And he admires Putin.

Here is an interesting quote:
"In a recent conversation with the Ukrainian newspaper Pravda, Selenskyj had said that Trump already had the chance to end the Ukraine war. Unfortunately, he probably had other plans at the time, Selenskyj said, adding, "If we're talking about ending the war at Ukraine's expense, in other words, by forcing us to give up our territories, I think Biden could have ended it that way even in five minutes." (Gregor-José Moser)"

And this is exactly one of Trump's statements. He would first propose a deal to Ukraine in which Ukraine would have to give up territories. If Ukraine was willing to do that, it would have happened long ago.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 03, 2023, 16:15
Researchers agree, according to media reports, that Russian trolls may have helped Trump win the 2016 election. Whether this is true, I cannot judge. But I am certain about it when I claim that weakening democracy in the U.S. is very much in Russia's interest. A politically unstable U.S. is good for Russia. Putin knows that. And does everything to support a guarantor of the weakening of democracy - Donald Trump.

In Africa - currently in Niger and other countries - Russia is currently also trying to infiltrate democratic tendencies and expand its own influence. There is also war or the threat of war there.

Be that as it may, you should think very carefully about whether you would prefer a Trump to a Biden. Trump goes over corpses for his very personal reputation. Also Ukraine could be one of these corpses! He personally doesn't care much about that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 03, 2023, 17:08
I watched the movie "Don't Look Up", which is very much like the politics of the Democrats. For those who haven't watched, take a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Look_Up
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 03, 2023, 17:17
I watched the movie "Don't Look Up", which is very much like the politics of the Democrats. For those who haven't watched, take a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Look_Up

Don't Look Up' is about climate change and a satire about many groups of people indifferences, not just government. And certainly not about governments who have given so much already.

Maybe you should watch it again?

I forgot to ask you, Stoker, are you actually Ukrainian? And what country do you live in?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 03, 2023, 20:05
deleted
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 04, 2023, 03:40
Researchers agree, according to media reports, that Russian trolls may have helped Trump win the 2016 election. Whether this is true, I cannot judge. But I am certain about it when I claim that weakening democracy in the U.S. is very much in Russia's interest. A politically unstable U.S. is good for Russia. Putin knows that. And does everything to support a guarantor of the weakening of democracy - Donald Trump.

In Africa - currently in Niger and other countries - Russia is currently also trying to infiltrate democratic tendencies and expand its own influence. There is also war or the threat of war there.

Be that as it may, you should think very carefully about whether you would prefer a Trump to a Biden. Trump goes over corpses for his very personal reputation. Also Ukraine could be one of these corpses! He personally doesn't care much about that.
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 04, 2023, 03:41
I watched the movie "Don't Look Up", which is very much like the politics of the Democrats. For those who haven't watched, take a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Look_Up

Don't Look Up' is about climate change and a satire about many groups of people indifferences, not just government. And certainly not about governments who have given so much already.

Maybe you should watch it again?

I forgot to ask you, Stoker, are you actually Ukrainian? And what country do you live in?
It doesn't matter who I am. The main thing is that I am not Russian and do not live in Russia.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 04, 2023, 03:51
BTW, did you see the recent interview with President Obama and Christiane Amanpour where he addresses the 2014 Ukraine issue? It starts at around 4:50 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3zgCVqqf3Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3zgCVqqf3Q)

I didn't see it, but now I've looked. Post here as much of what you see in the media that you watch.
In this video, I will tell my opinion, all these are beautiful words in order to justify the non-compliance of the United States with the Budapest Memorandum. Of course, Ukraine did not have strong military capabilities, because the US disarmed Ukraine in the early 90s. Some experts in Ukraine say that Obama and Biden are one company. Under Obama, the Russians occupied Crimea and Donbass. Under Biden, the Russians attacked all of Ukraine and occupied the southeast of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 04, 2023, 03:54
I watched the movie "Don't Look Up", which is very much like the politics of the Democrats. For those who haven't watched, take a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Look_Up

Don't Look Up' is about climate change and a satire about many groups of people indifferences, not just government. And certainly not about governments who have given so much already.

In my opinion, this film says that the US authorities cannot even help their own country, not to mention help other countries. Indirectly, there is criticism of the Democrats, in my opinion. But I will not argue about this film, I think everyone should watch it and have their own point of view.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 04, 2023, 03:57
Armed Forces of Ukraine attack a Russian warship in Russia.  8) 8) 8)

A surface drone, saturated with 450 kilograms of TNT, attacks an enemy ship with about 100 crew members.
https://t.me/operativnoZSU/108546

Attack results  ;D ;D ;D
https://t.me/zvizdecmanhustu/1082
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 04, 2023, 05:44
I watched the movie "Don't Look Up", which is very much like the politics of the Democrats. For those who haven't watched, take a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Look_Up

Don't Look Up' is about climate change and a satire about many groups of people indifferences, not just government. And certainly not about governments who have given so much already.

Maybe you should watch it again?

I forgot to ask you, Stoker, are you actually Ukrainian? And what country do you live in?
It doesn't matter who I am. The main thing is that I am not Russian and do not live in Russia.  ;D ;D ;D

OMG, now I am starting to understand. You are probably not Ukrainian are you? Otherwise you would proudly say so on this thread. You're just someone who hates Russians so much (all Russians as you have said previously) that you just want Ukraine to bomb the heck out of them using American weapons. I wondered why you didn't seem to care about Navalny or wouldn't listen to any facts or logic about what's really going on. Now I think I understand. You're just angry. Being blinded by hatred is a very sad state, Stoke. I wish you peace.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 04, 2023, 08:01
Annie, I don't post my personal information on the forums, that's the rule.
At the expense of hatred for the Russians, they are so hated in all civilized countries of the world. A few days ago, I gave a link to a video where Russians are being beaten. Russians are treated well only by those who are under the influence of Russian propaganda and lies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on August 04, 2023, 08:14
FWIW, if Trump really is reelected and thinks he can hand over Ukraine wrapped with red ribbons and a golden bow to Putin as his personal fiefdom, the world will see Europe really stepping up.

There is currently a lot of activity to build new weapons factories and many are being built in Ukraine.

If we cannot rely on Uncle Sam, then Europe will step up.

Putin will never have Ukraine. On the contrary, he has revived and empowered NATO and Europe has never been this united on anything.

I understand the frustration of Ukraine, but this is a process that will end with all of Ukraine liberated and also Ukraine becoming a full member of Nato and EU.

Because Putin still has a huge supply of young men he can draft and kill, the war will drag on, maybe even for a few years.

Ukraine will win in the end.  Russia will become a servant of China and part of the Chinese empire.

The war also forces Ukraine to deal with their own corruption and mafia that all former soviet states have to deal with.

I don't think that Trump will get elected again. He will try of course, one last grift and maybe another little attack horde killing their way to the capitol for him.

But then he will go to jail.

Because even those that benefitted from him, are tired of him.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 04, 2023, 11:37
I don't think that Trump will get elected again. He will try of course, one last grift and maybe another little attack horde killing their way to the capitol for him.
Yes, Trump or DeSantis have little chance of winning right now. But much will depend on Biden's success or failure.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 04, 2023, 14:28
Annie, I don't post my personal information on the forums, that's the rule.
At the expense of hatred for the Russians, they are so hated in all civilized countries of the world. A few days ago, I gave a link to a video where Russians are being beaten. Russians are treated well only by those who are under the influence of Russian propaganda and lies.

My mother was Polish and she hatred Russians too. I understand this, but I don't agree with it.

Hatred is behind most of the problems in the world today. It makes people weak and suspectable to manipulation. Putin uses it, Trump uses it, big fossil fuel corporations use it. I am an accountant and an independent non-party voter, and there's a part of me that's pro-business, but I also want global warming addressed.

It's happening in America right now, where one party hates the other so much that they will believe lies or elect criminals purely to stop the other party from winning.

Yes, hatred exists and it's here and all over the world, but its a weakness. Past grievances cause it, poverty makes it worse, education improves it. But the first step is to accept that its wrong and the rest will follow. The worse thing to do is to justify it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 04, 2023, 15:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyI4nCtDuIQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyI4nCtDuIQ)

Ukrainian radio broadcast. Insufficient US military aid is discussed. In the subtitle settings, it is possible to enable translation into English.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 04, 2023, 15:18
Annie, I don't post my personal information on the forums, that's the rule.
At the expense of hatred for the Russians, they are so hated in all civilized countries of the world. A few days ago, I gave a link to a video where Russians are being beaten. Russians are treated well only by those who are under the influence of Russian propaganda and lies.

My mother was Polish and she hatred Russians too. I understand this, but I don't agree with it.

Hatred is behind most of the problems in the world today. It makes people weak and suspectable to manipulation. Putin uses it, Trump uses it, big fossil fuel corporations use it. I am an accountant and an independent non-party voter, and there's a part of me that's pro-business, but I also want global warming addressed.

It's happening in America right now, where one party hates the other so much that they will believe lies or elect criminals purely to stop the other party from winning.

Yes, hatred exists and it's here and all over the world, but its a weakness. Past grievances cause it, poverty makes it worse, education improves it. But the first step is to accept that its wrong and the rest will follow. The worse thing to do is to justify it.

I agree with all of your points. If everyone thought and felt the way you do, the world would be a better place! Unfortunately, there are too many money- and power-hungry.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 04, 2023, 15:19
FWIW, if Trump really is reelected and thinks he can hand over Ukraine wrapped with red ribbons and a golden bow to Putin as his personal fiefdom, the world will see Europe really stepping up.

There is currently a lot of activity to build new weapons factories and many are being built in Ukraine.

If we cannot rely on Uncle Sam, then Europe will step up.

Putin will never have Ukraine. On the contrary, he has revived and empowered NATO and Europe has never been this united on anything.

I understand the frustration of Ukraine, but this is a process that will end with all of Ukraine liberated and also Ukraine becoming a full member of Nato and EU.

Because Putin still has a huge supply of young men he can draft and kill, the war will drag on, maybe even for a few years.

Ukraine will win in the end.  Russia will become a servant of China and part of the Chinese empire.

The war also forces Ukraine to deal with their own corruption and mafia that all former soviet states have to deal with.

I don't think that Trump will get elected again. He will try of course, one last grift and maybe another little attack horde killing their way to the capitol for him.

But then he will go to jail.

Because even those that benefitted from him, are tired of him.

There is also a lot of truth in your words!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 04, 2023, 16:15
Annie, I don't post my personal information on the forums, that's the rule.
At the expense of hatred for the Russians, they are so hated in all civilized countries of the world. A few days ago, I gave a link to a video where Russians are being beaten. Russians are treated well only by those who are under the influence of Russian propaganda and lies.

My mother was Polish and she hatred Russians too. I understand this, but I don't agree with it.

Hatred is behind most of the problems in the world today. It makes people weak and suspectable to manipulation. Putin uses it, Trump uses it, big fossil fuel corporations use it. I am an accountant and an independent non-party voter, and there's a part of me that's pro-business, but I also want global warming addressed.

It's happening in America right now, where one party hates the other so much that they will believe lies or elect criminals purely to stop the other party from winning.

Yes, hatred exists and it's here and all over the world, but its a weakness. Past grievances cause it, poverty makes it worse, education improves it. But the first step is to accept that its wrong and the rest will follow. The worse thing to do is to justify it.

I agree with all of your points. If everyone thought and felt the way you do, the world would be a better place! Unfortunately, there are too many money- and power-hungry.

Yes, there are! But I believe that the real power lies within the individuals, the voters, and that we are the ones who collectively will make a difference. But that means becoming independent thinkers.

Your words are very kind. My background is that I embraced Buddhism when I was much younger. But I am often not a very good Buddhist. I get angry, I take sides, my ego starts to take over, and I get embroiled in people's dramas. But when I see that happening, I leave the groups and disappear for a while, increase my meditation practice, and loose myself in my creative pursuits. That's why you often see me delete my posts that are not kind or too controversial or disappear from here for a while when I feel I am becoming too involved.

I am not saying that everyone should become a Buddhist (LOL) but its my way of becoming independent again. I also believe that education is important. My ex-father-in-law was an English teacher and he used to say: education, real education, doesn't give you the answers - it teaches you the questions to ask.

I have a lot of respect for you too, Wilm. I find you to be a highly educated and very understanding man and I love reading your posts - and I am sure you know all of this too.

I wrote a lot in the beginning of this thread about not labelling people, not taking sides, and understanding what is REALLY going on in the world. I believe that makes us more and more impervious to being manipulated by greedy or power hungry politicians and leaders.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 05, 2023, 06:00
I wrote a lot in the beginning of this thread about not labelling people, not taking sides, and understanding what is REALLY going on in the world. I believe that makes us more and more impervious to being manipulated by greedy or power hungry politicians and leaders.
This is a very strange philosophy during the war. And this philosophy will not save from evil.
Naz.is should be called Naz.is, Russians should be called rashists and orcs. Enemies must be eliminated. Everything is very simple.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 05, 2023, 06:04
A refrigerator stolen from Ukraine was spotted among some damaged Russian military equipment in Rostov-on-Don in Russia. The local Russian filming ridicules the army for being thieves, "Surely they can't leave the battlefield empty-handed! [scoffs] This is Russia."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1687491601697062912
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 05, 2023, 06:08
The Ukrainian Defense Ministry already released the video of the USV showing the assault against Russian oil tanker “Sig”.

There is literally nothing what Russia can do in order to prevent those military targets from being hit. There are currently dozens of oil tankers in the Black Sea approaching or leaving Russian harbors and with this video circulating many shipping companies won’t get the insurance in order to operate, effectively diminishing Russian revenues in oil trade. It would be even easy for Ukraine to extend this effective blockade to all cargo ships which theoretically could contain weapons, making them all military targets.

Yes, you can play this game both ways.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1687687339462787072

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 05, 2023, 12:54
US to keep Russia's food exports flowing if grain deal revived, Blinken says
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-keep-russias-food-exports-flowing-if-grain-deal-revived-blinken-says-2023-08-03/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us-keep-russias-food-exports-flowing-if-grain-deal-revived-blinken-says-2023-08-03/)

Tell that Democrat Blinken that Ukraine doesn't want any deals with the Russians. If the US does not want to impose sanctions on the Russians, if the US wants to buy food and ammonia from the Russians, then let Biden say so. The US wants to continue bloody trade with the Russians.

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 02:43
From February 24, 2022 to August 7, 2023, Ukraine’s Defense Forces of Ukraine eliminated 250,240 Russian invaders, including 540 in the past day alone.

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2023_08/1691386620-559.jpg)

Also, Ukraine’s defenders destroyed 4,244 enemy tanks (+7), 8,270 (+8) armored fighting vehicles, 4,977 (+12) artillery systems, 709 (+4) MLR systems, 467 (+1) air defense equipment, 315 (+0) warplanes, 311 (+0) helicopters, 4,154 (+28) operational-tactical UAVs, 1,377 (+18) cruise missiles, 18 (+0) warships / cutters, 7,451 (+10) trucks and tankers, and 735 (+1) units of specialized equipment.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 03:37
Deliveries by Lend-Lease to the USSR during World War II.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

Look at the supply volumes in tons and nomenclature. These supplies helped to defeat Hitler. Russia today is a Nazi country and occupies Ukraine. There is a war going on. But thanks to the Democrats, nothing was delivered to Ukraine under Lend-Lease, zero! Biden and the Democrats want the Russians to win the war, occupy Ukraine and kill Ukrainians? The Democrats want to trade blood with the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 03:39
Germany does not fulfill its promises on the supply of weapons to Ukraine. Germany continues the policy of the Kremlin agent Merkel?

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article246721222/Unterstuetzung-fuer-Ukraine-Trotz-grosser-Versprechen-Deutschland-zoegert-weiter-bei-Waffenlieferungen.html (https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article246721222/Unterstuetzung-fuer-Ukraine-Trotz-grosser-Versprechen-Deutschland-zoegert-weiter-bei-Waffenlieferungen.html)

(https://img.welt.de/img/politik/ausland/mobile246721218/5531625407-ci23x11-w1136/DWO-Teaser-Marder-Scholz-ks.jpg)

"Die Menge der in Kiew seit Mitte Mai eingetroffenen Marder, Iris-T, Tankfahrzeuge und Schwerlastsattelzüge beträgt null. Erhalten hat die Ukraine unter anderem lediglich zehn (von 110 versprochenen) Leopard-1-Panzer, ein Luftraumüberwachungsradar, zwölf (von 18) Geparden, gerade einmal 850 Schuss Artilleriemunition (von 26.350) und acht Krankenwagen. Die einzigen Versprechungen, die die Bundesregierung zu 100 Prozent erfüllt hat, sind die der Lieferung von 11.000 Essensrationen, drei Drohnensensoren und fünf Metallbrücken für den Brückenlegepanzer Biber."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 03:44
Germans! Get your government resigned! Your government is working for Putin!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 03:48
I know that many here on the forum want Biden and the Democrats to win the next US election. But desire alone is not enough to win. If the American people find out that the Democrats are helping and trading with the Russians, the Republicans will have a better chance of winning the election.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on August 07, 2023, 09:18
Germany does not fulfill its promises on the supply of weapons to Ukraine. Germany continues the policy of the Kremlin agent Merkel?

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article246721222/Unterstuetzung-fuer-Ukraine-Trotz-grosser-Versprechen-Deutschland-zoegert-weiter-bei-Waffenlieferungen.html (https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article246721222/Unterstuetzung-fuer-Ukraine-Trotz-grosser-Versprechen-Deutschland-zoegert-weiter-bei-Waffenlieferungen.html)


This article if rife with errors and inaccuracies and highly misleading.

It is about a package of weapons and other supplies that were promised in May, but have not yet been delivered in full. But it is totally normal that it takes some time to prepare the deliveries, for a number of reasons.

For example the IRIS-T SLM system mentioned have not yet been delivered, because they do not exist yet, because they have to be produced first. It is a new system which Germany does not even in operation itself yet. Two of those system have already been delivered to the Ukraine in earlier packages, though.

It was never intended or communicated that those system would be delivered immediately, as it was always clear that they have to be produced first. So no promise was broken.

The Leopard I tanks mentioned have to be checked and in many cases probably repaired by the defence industry, as they are probably tanks that have not been used for years.

See also the following article for a fact check on the article in the Welt:

https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b (https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b)

"Conclusion

How do you write a conclusion to an article like that? Personally, I am having a hard time finding the right words right now. It is full of errors, taken out of context and important key information is not mentioned.

This results in the reader being given a completely false picture of the German military support to Ukraine."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 09:52
https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b (https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b)

Who is gregor schwung? Blogger? What kind of site is this deaidua.medium (for blogs)? The Russians can find a bunch of trolls to act as Scholz's lawyers.
An article with accusations has been published in the press, bloggers-lawyers are no longer needed here.
I hope that the accusations against Scholz will lead to the supply of the necessary amount of weapons to Ukraine. I also hope that the Germans will have an impact on their government.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 07, 2023, 10:57
https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b (https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b)

Who is gregor schwung? Blogger? What kind of site is this deaidua.medium (for blogs)? The Russians can find a bunch of trolls to act as Scholz's lawyers.
An article with accusations has been published in the press, bloggers-lawyers are no longer needed here.
I hope that the accusations against Scholz will lead to the supply of the necessary amount of weapons to Ukraine. I also hope that the Germans will have an impact on their government.

And who are you? - blogger?, who always postulates to know and spread the only truth.

You always make the same mistake. You look for any article that fits into your world view and then draw your conclusions, in this case from a newspaper that likes to report very tendentious and polarizing.

The whole problem with military aid lies more in the reasons as Big Toe described.

What depresses me a bit as a fellow reader and quasi spectator is that you show exactly the same cognitive distortion as the Russians are said to have. Where such a distorted perception with tunnel vision can lead to, we see right now - at least to nothing good.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 11:19
https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b (https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b)

Who is gregor schwung? Blogger? What kind of site is this deaidua.medium (for blogs)? The Russians can find a bunch of trolls to act as Scholz's lawyers.
An article with accusations has been published in the press, bloggers-lawyers are no longer needed here.
I hope that the accusations against Scholz will lead to the supply of the necessary amount of weapons to Ukraine. I also hope that the Germans will have an impact on their government.

And who are you? - blogger?, who always postulates to know and spread the only truth.

You always make the same mistake. You look for any article that fits into your world view and then draw your conclusions, in this case from a newspaper that likes to report very tendentious and polarizing.

The whole problem with military aid lies more in the reasons as Big Toe described.

What depresses me a bit as a fellow reader and quasi spectator is that you show exactly the same cognitive distortion as the Russians are said to have. Where such a distorted perception with tunnel vision can lead to, we see right now - at least to nothing good.

What claims can be made to me personally? welt.de is your German press. You don't trust your press?
I support the desired topic, publish information from well-known publications.
You don't post anything, don't write anything, that's the ostrich pose.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 07, 2023, 12:05
https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b (https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b)

Who is gregor schwung? Blogger? What kind of site is this deaidua.medium (for blogs)? The Russians can find a bunch of trolls to act as Scholz's lawyers.
An article with accusations has been published in the press, bloggers-lawyers are no longer needed here.
I hope that the accusations against Scholz will lead to the supply of the necessary amount of weapons to Ukraine. I also hope that the Germans will have an impact on their government.

And who are you? - blogger?, who always postulates to know and spread the only truth.

You always make the same mistake. You look for any article that fits into your world view and then draw your conclusions, in this case from a newspaper that likes to report very tendentious and polarizing.

The whole problem with military aid lies more in the reasons as Big Toe described.

What depresses me a bit as a fellow reader and quasi spectator is that you show exactly the same cognitive distortion as the Russians are said to have. Where such a distorted perception with tunnel vision can lead to, we see right now - at least to nothing good.

What claims can be made to me personally? welt.de is your German press. You don't trust your press?
I support the desired topic, publish information from well-known publications.
You don't post anything, don't write anything, that's the ostrich pose.

My ostrich pose is a head stretched way up, not in front of the keyboard, but in the real world - so you get a lot more facets of the world.

What I reproach you personally:

"Germans! Get your government resigned! Your government is working for Putin!"

In addition to military and financial aid, Germany has now taken in more than 1,000,000 Ukrainians who, like every German, have full access to the social and health care systems without any red tape.

One can certainly talk about details, but the magic word here is first and foremost: Thank you.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 12:41
https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b (https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b)

Who is gregor schwung? Blogger? What kind of site is this deaidua.medium (for blogs)? The Russians can find a bunch of trolls to act as Scholz's lawyers.
An article with accusations has been published in the press, bloggers-lawyers are no longer needed here.
I hope that the accusations against Scholz will lead to the supply of the necessary amount of weapons to Ukraine. I also hope that the Germans will have an impact on their government.

And who are you? - blogger?, who always postulates to know and spread the only truth.

You always make the same mistake. You look for any article that fits into your world view and then draw your conclusions, in this case from a newspaper that likes to report very tendentious and polarizing.

The whole problem with military aid lies more in the reasons as Big Toe described.

What depresses me a bit as a fellow reader and quasi spectator is that you show exactly the same cognitive distortion as the Russians are said to have. Where such a distorted perception with tunnel vision can lead to, we see right now - at least to nothing good.

What claims can be made to me personally? welt.de is your German press. You don't trust your press?
I support the desired topic, publish information from well-known publications.
You don't post anything, don't write anything, that's the ostrich pose.

My ostrich pose is a head stretched way up, not in front of the keyboard, but in the real world - so you get a lot more facets of the world.

What I reproach you personally:

"Germans! Get your government resigned! Your government is working for Putin!"

In addition to military and financial aid, Germany has now taken in more than 1,000,000 Ukrainians who, like every German, have full access to the social and health care systems without any red tape.

One can certainly talk about details, but the magic word here is first and foremost: Thank you.
Germany has supported Russia financially for decades (and even now buys gas from the Russians); Merkel prevented Ukraine from joining NATO in 2008; Germany has lobbied for the construction of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.
What thanks are you talking about? There are only claims to Germany. And now a scandal has flared up about the non-delivery of the necessary weapons to Ukraine.
Germany is more of an ally of Russia than a friend of Ukraine.
Yes, Germany supplies some weapons, but only under pressure. I hope this scandal will allow Ukraine to get the necessary weapons from Germany faster.

And at the expense of the fact that Germany took refugees. These refugees work for you, pay taxes that cover all German expenses for Ukrainian refugees. Moreover, the Germans are pleased that Ukrainians came to them, and not Arabs or Africans. Germany still has to pay Ukraine for the fact that the citizens of Ukraine work for the German economy.

"Germans! Get your government resigned! Your government is working for Putin!"
And how else to call the non-delivery of weapons promised by Scholz to Ukraine?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 07, 2023, 13:27
Stoker, with the last contribution you have now really shot the bird.
Your propaganda is even worse than that of the Russians - but presented in a much more amateurish way. I'll leave you alone again.
This is somehow not a discussion among intelligent adults here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 13:49
Stoker, with the last contribution you have now really shot the bird.
Your propaganda is even worse than that of the Russians - but presented in a much more amateurish way. I'll leave you alone again.
This is somehow not a discussion among intelligent adults here.
(https://r6z4d5g2.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/straus_golovu-v-pesok.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 07, 2023, 15:55
Germany has Taurus missiles. Negotiations are now underway on the transfer of these missiles to Ukraine. Everything depends on Scholz. Germany started with the transfer of only helmets to Ukraine in 2022.

Ukrainian radio broadcast. In the subtitle settings, you can select the language of translation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xRVTIt5xgM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xRVTIt5xgM)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 07, 2023, 16:32
https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b (https://deaidua.medium.com/fact-check-welt-de-despite-big-promises-3fc3dd37d39b)

Who is gregor schwung? Blogger? What kind of site is this deaidua.medium (for blogs)? The Russians can find a bunch of trolls to act as Scholz's lawyers.
An article with accusations has been published in the press, bloggers-lawyers are no longer needed here.
I hope that the accusations against Scholz will lead to the supply of the necessary amount of weapons to Ukraine. I also hope that the Germans will have an impact on their government.

And who are you? - blogger?, who always postulates to know and spread the only truth.

You always make the same mistake. You look for any article that fits into your world view and then draw your conclusions, in this case from a newspaper that likes to report very tendentious and polarizing.

The whole problem with military aid lies more in the reasons as Big Toe described.

What depresses me a bit as a fellow reader and quasi spectator is that you show exactly the same cognitive distortion as the Russians are said to have. Where such a distorted perception with tunnel vision can lead to, we see right now - at least to nothing good.

What claims can be made to me personally? welt.de is your German press. You don't trust your press?
I support the desired topic, publish information from well-known publications.
You don't post anything, don't write anything, that's the ostrich pose.

My ostrich pose is a head stretched way up, not in front of the keyboard, but in the real world - so you get a lot more facets of the world.

What I reproach you personally:

"Germans! Get your government resigned! Your government is working for Putin!"

In addition to military and financial aid, Germany has now taken in more than 1,000,000 Ukrainians who, like every German, have full access to the social and health care systems without any red tape.

One can certainly talk about details, but the magic word here is first and foremost: Thank you.
Germany has supported Russia financially for decades (and even now buys gas from the Russians); Merkel prevented Ukraine from joining NATO in 2008; Germany has lobbied for the construction of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline.
What thanks are you talking about? There are only claims to Germany. And now a scandal has flared up about the non-delivery of the necessary weapons to Ukraine.
Germany is more of an ally of Russia than a friend of Ukraine.
Yes, Germany supplies some weapons, but only under pressure. I hope this scandal will allow Ukraine to get the necessary weapons from Germany faster.

And at the expense of the fact that Germany took refugees. These refugees work for you, pay taxes that cover all German expenses for Ukrainian refugees. Moreover, the Germans are pleased that Ukrainians came to them, and not Arabs or Africans. Germany still has to pay Ukraine for the fact that the citizens of Ukraine work for the German economy.

"Germans! Get your government resigned! Your government is working for Putin!"
And how else to call the non-delivery of weapons promised by Scholz to Ukraine?

I would like to ask you to familiarize yourself with facts before you make assertions that do not correspond to the truth!

With what you write, you harm Ukraine! You should think about it every time you write something.

I have written some things to your statements. You obviously did not notice it and did not comment on it. I assume that you have not even read it.

In parts of Germany there are now very strong right-wing populist and pro-Russian tendencies. This is fomented by the Russians. Part of the problem lies in the refugees from Ukraine. Who, from the point of view of the right-wing populists, do not work and yet receive money from the German state. These are the same people who - also fomented by Russia - also claimed during the Corona pandemic that democracy and civil liberties were being abolished in Germany.

With all your statements, you are pouring oil on this fire. A fire that burns more and more in favor of the Russians. Do you really want that? I do not think so!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 07, 2023, 16:33
Regardless of that, many of your statements are far-fetched! Your KGB agents and all this other nonsense - where do you get all this crap from?

You think only black or white. Which shows that you have no idea how much tact it takes to save the world from a third world war.

I stand by this and have written this here before: I am very grateful that people who think like you do are not in political responsibility.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 07, 2023, 16:46
Stoker, with the last contribution you have now really shot the bird.
Your propaganda is even worse than that of the Russians - but presented in a much more amateurish way. I'll leave you alone again.
This is somehow not a discussion among intelligent adults here.

Correct!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on August 07, 2023, 16:53
90% of Ukrainians in Germany don't work...and many people are now suggesting they should go back to the peaceful parts of Ukraine.

It would certainly be cheaper to support them directly at home.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 08, 2023, 02:25
Regardless of that, many of your statements are far-fetched! Your KGB agents and all this other nonsense - where do you get all this crap from?

You think only black or white. Which shows that you have no idea how much tact it takes to save the world from a third world war.

I stand by this and have written this here before: I am very grateful that people who think like you do are not in political responsibility.
Wake up there in Germany, wake up in Europe. World War III has been going on for 10 years. Your and not only your position is the position of ostriches. I have already provided a photo.
You can support the Democrats, who are dragging out the victory of Ukraine as much as possible and strengthening the Russians, you can support the policies of Merkel and her colleague Scholz. It's all happened before, the annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938. Doesn't this remind you of anything? Learn history, and don't talk about peace in times of war. Ukraine needs weapons, and whoever does not give them is an enemy and an agent of the Russians. Yes, and according to the laws of wartime, only a tribunal awaits enemies - execution or gallows.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 08, 2023, 02:28
90% of Ukrainians in Germany don't work...and many people are now suggesting they should go back to the peaceful parts of Ukraine.

It would certainly be cheaper to support them directly at home.
Please provide a link to the stats. I read that refugees in the EU pay a lot of taxes and develop the economy. If 90% do not work in Germany, then this is the problem of Germany, which pays a very large allowance and it is more profitable for people not to work than to work. A good allowance is normal if a person is disabled and cannot work. Therefore, only the disabled should receive a good allowance. I also read that many Germans do not work, but live on welfare.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 08, 2023, 02:31
I would like to ask you to familiarize yourself with facts before you make assertions that do not correspond to the truth!

With what you write, you harm Ukraine! You should think about it every time you write something.

I have written some things to your statements. You obviously did not notice it and did not comment on it. I assume that you have not even read it.

In parts of Germany there are now very strong right-wing populist and pro-Russian tendencies. This is fomented by the Russians. Part of the problem lies in the refugees from Ukraine. Who, from the point of view of the right-wing populists, do not work and yet receive money from the German state. These are the same people who - also fomented by Russia - also claimed during the Corona pandemic that democracy and civil liberties were being abolished in Germany.

With all your statements, you are pouring oil on this fire. A fire that burns more and more in favor of the Russians. Do you really want that? I do not think so!
Disagree. Ukraine is harmed by Scholz, who does not give the weapons he promised to give.
Get the Russians out of Germany! Everything is simple.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 08, 2023, 04:11
Many here on the forum and in the EU and in other countries of the world do not understand that World War III has been going on for 10 years. For some reason, the world media does not tell the truth to people. As a result, people think that the problem is easily solved, you just need to sacrifice Ukraine and Ukrainians to the Russians. People think that the Russians only want Ukraine, and that the Russians only want to massacre Ukrainians. Actually this is a lie.
The civilized world is opposed by the 3-headed dragon. These are China, Russia and Iran. These fascist and totalitarian countries look at the impotence of the US and NATO, they see the shameful flight of the US army from Afghanistan, they see the fear of handing over weapons to Ukraine, they see that NATO is showing impotence. It is not difficult to predict how decisively China and Russia will act after the occupation of Ukraine. Not only the EU countries, but also Australia and Japan will be under threat. And if today Ukraine can stop this dragon, then when there is no Ukraine, Russians and Chinese will come to other cities in Europe and Australia and Japan and will kill.
Therefore, Ukraine needs weapons, a lot of weapons, modern weapons. Anyone who does not give weapons should be in prison.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 08, 2023, 05:46
Ukraine’s ambassador encourages presidential candidates to visit her country — including Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/04/ukraines-ambassador-encourages-presidential-candidates-visit-her-country-including-trump/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/04/ukraines-ambassador-encourages-presidential-candidates-visit-her-country-including-trump/)

 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on August 08, 2023, 10:32
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/wirtschaft/ukraine-gefluechtete-arbeit-job-huerden-100.html (https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/wirtschaft/ukraine-gefluechtete-arbeit-job-huerden-100.html)

of the 561 000 ukraine refugees only 38 000 have jobs that pay into the social security system or taxes.

the explanation is supposedly that there isn‘t enough childcare, or german language is not good enough.

but the reality for all refugees and economic migrants is that in germanit is extremely easy to simply not work and enjoy a fantastic life at the expense of the hard working German taxpayer, who has to collect bottles in old age because the pension system does not work.

in addition, ukraine refugees have made a name for being pretty arrogant on the job market. they refuse to take simple jobs you can do without language skills „those are for the arabs, not for us“ original quote I heard.

they also frequently go back and forth to ukraine.

Which is why I think it would make a lot more sense to declare a „safe zone“ in ukraine, bring in international soldiers and protection if needed and supply people wi8th schools, housing etc there…

It would be a lot cheaper and people would be home to start rebuilding or at least improve their education and learn new skills until the war is over.

if you add some german language schools, then those that reach a certain level could then move to germany and actually get a job.

plus it would lessen the pressure in germany on finding a rentable home. The market is completely empty and sadly the government often decides if there is new housing by the state to fill it only with migrants or refugees.

It is building a lot of resentment in the population, hence the strong drift to extreme right wing parties.

ETA

There are jobs absolutely everywhere in germany. But you have to get up early, work hard and after taxes you won‘t have a lot more than those living on social benefits.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 08, 2023, 11:30
the explanation is supposedly that there isn‘t enough childcare, or german language is not good enough.
All these difficulties can be overcome if there is a strong desire and intention. The make-up artist I worked with for many years recently moved to Vienna. She learned German in a few months, raises her child there, and works as a successful Makeup Artist & Hairstylist. The main thing is to strive not to be a dependent of the state, but to make efforts for self-development. https://www.instagram.com/irina_m_makeup (https://www.instagram.com/irina_m_makeup)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 08, 2023, 12:41
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/wirtschaft/ukraine-gefluechtete-arbeit-job-huerden-100.html (https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/wirtschaft/ukraine-gefluechtete-arbeit-job-huerden-100.html)

of the 561 000 ukraine refugees only 38 000 have jobs that pay into the social security system or taxes.

the explanation is supposedly that there isn‘t enough childcare, or german language is not good enough.

but the reality for all refugees and economic migrants is that in germanit is extremely easy to simply not work and enjoy a fantastic life at the expense of the hard working German taxpayer, who has to collect bottles in old age because the pension system does not work.

in addition, ukraine refugees have made a name for being pretty arrogant on the job market. they refuse to take simple jobs you can do without language skills „those are for the arabs, not for us“ original quote I heard.

they also frequently go back and forth to ukraine.

Which is why I think it would make a lot more sense to declare a „safe zone“ in ukraine, bring in international soldiers and protection if needed and supply people wi8th schools, housing etc there…

It would be a lot cheaper and people would be home to start rebuilding or at least improve their education and learn new skills until the war is over.

if you add some german language schools, then those that reach a certain level could then move to germany and actually get a job.

plus it would lessen the pressure in germany on finding a rentable home. The market is completely empty and sadly the government often decides if there is new housing by the state to fill it only with migrants or refugees.

It is building a lot of resentment in the population, hence the strong drift to extreme right wing parties.

ETA

There are jobs absolutely everywhere in germany. But you have to get up early, work hard and after taxes you won‘t have a lot more than those living on social benefits.

Well, I think you have to differentiate a little bit.

Most Ukrainians are here not entirely voluntarily and do not know what the future looks like, whether it goes back to Ukraine and when.

I understand very well that from such a situation one does not necessarily have the highest motivation for vocational training, retraining or learning a language.

However, Ukrainians do not have refugee status in Germany, but are treated like German long-term unemployed.

Refugees receive about 360 €, that's it. Medical treatment is only granted in case of emergency or absolute urgency and is paid by the state.

Ukrainians receive about € 500 social benefit + about € 400 per child + rent subsidy. In addition, Ukrainians have free full access to the health care system. This is not paid by the state, but by the community of the publicly insured (Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung).

I think this is a very bad solution and contains a lot of social explosives.

I have regular contact with Ukrainians. Most of them are very grateful and not arrogant. At the beginning of the war, I saw many visibly traumatized women.

In the course of this year, however, something has changed here. So not only I experience more and more Ukrainians rather as disproportionately challenging and demanding "tourists" - at our expense.



 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on August 08, 2023, 13:10
i am all for helping ukraine.

but the money that is being spent on people here who do not work, could be better used in ukraine itself.

many areas of ukraine are safe. and can be made even safer with special military protection.

life in germany is extremely expensive.

for what is being paid here for 600 000 people could easily take care of 6 million in ukraine. maybe even more.

nobody benefits from wasting money, least of all the ukrainians.

german tax money is better invested in weapons imo.

and if you invest in housing in ukraine, you are helping the economy there.

plus people would be at home, schools could be expanded.

the german government should put ending the war first and that means allocating all possible resources into the military.

as hard as it is, europe has to become a war economy, because this war will last until putin dies. and this can take years.

it also might not end with him, there might be an even more incompetent over emotional tyrant coming in after him.

ukraine is huge, there is plenty of space to build schools, housing and learning centers.

and from there add recruitement centers for those who want to live and work in other parts of europe.

eta

many of my family have spent years in war zones, especially the 15 year war in lebanon, invasion of kuwait etc…

you cannot help people by wasting money. you must solve the problem, in this case keep throwing money into the military until all of ukraine is liberated

that is the best psychological help for trauma.

get putin and his *insult removed* out of there.

trauma counseling for victims is best done in ukraine. at home.

not in a far away land in a different language where every thing reminds you that you should not be here.

war is horrible.

their physical bodies might be in germany but their hearts and souls are at home. every moment they worry if their families are alive, if their friends are doing well.

put the military first, kick russia out.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 08, 2023, 13:51
german tax money is better invested in weapons imo.
+100
But for this it is necessary to dismiss Scholz, who is a follower and colleague of Merkel.
Most likely, those people who go to Germany know that financial assistance in Germany is large and you can not work. I personally would not go to Germany because I have a bad attitude towards the German government.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 08, 2023, 14:06
Democrats are pursuing a strange policy. The Armed Forces of Ukraine are forced to fight using the methods of the First World War, only because NATO does not give Ukraine aviation. At the same time, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are shoot out to fire 150-300 thousand shells per month, while NATO countries are forced to produce such a large number of shells. Tanks supplied to Ukraine can also be quickly destroyed due to Ukraine's lack of aviation. If Ukraine is given 100-150 F16 fighters and helicopters, the consumption of shells will decrease to 50-70 thousand per month and the tanks will be protected.
I have no words. This is idiotic. At the same time, a lot of refugees leave Ukraine for the EU countries. It is possible that the EU benefits from the fact that cheap labor has appeared on the labor market of their countries.
The problem of Russia and the rashists is easy to solve, it is enough to give Ukraine the necessary weapons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 08, 2023, 14:12
as hard as it is, europe has to become a war economy, because this war will last until putin dies. and this can take years.
I already wrote that Ukraine is not at war with putin, Ukraine is at war with the Russian people - rashists.

Putin is a legitimate president in Russia, his real support is at least 70-80 percent. If putin dies, the Russians will choose a similar KGB agent. Therefore, the problem for the world is solved only in 2 stages:
1. Destruction of Russians in Ukraine.
2. The complete collapse of Russia. Many oppressed peoples live on the territory of the Russian empire, and these peoples must create their own countries. Well, the Russians, their region of residence is just the territory of Muscovy, a small area.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 08, 2023, 14:27
Regardless of that, many of your statements are far-fetched! Your KGB agents and all this other nonsense - where do you get all this crap from?

You think only black or white. Which shows that you have no idea how much tact it takes to save the world from a third world war.

I stand by this and have written this here before: I am very grateful that people who think like you do are not in political responsibility.
Wake up there in Germany, wake up in Europe. World War III has been going on for 10 years. Your and not only your position is the position of ostriches. I have already provided a photo.
You can support the Democrats, who are dragging out the victory of Ukraine as much as possible and strengthening the Russians, you can support the policies of Merkel and her colleague Scholz. It's all happened before, the annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938. Doesn't this remind you of anything? Learn history, and don't talk about peace in times of war. Ukraine needs weapons, and whoever does not give them is an enemy and an agent of the Russians. Yes, and according to the laws of wartime, only a tribunal awaits enemies - execution or gallows.

I could also support the right-wing party instead of the democratic parties here in Germany.

Their attitude to Ukraine is quite simple: "Ukraine's problems are none of our business. No money, no weapons! We should buy raw materials from Russia again, so that inflation here will fall again and German companies will remain competitive on the international markets. Build a border fence around Germany against all refugees so that Germany remains German. And push the Dexit (English Gexit). Out of the EU. And wave Russian flags while doing it."

Is that what you think I should rather do? Because you criticize that I tend to be more attracted to the "Democrats"?

This party, which I would compare in many ways to the Republicans in the U.S., could be described by the slogan "Germany First." Ukraine has no place in it - but I had already tried to explain that to you in vain.

You obviously have no idea what's going on here in Germany! And in my opinion also not about what is going on in the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 08, 2023, 14:38
i am all for helping ukraine.

but the money that is being spent on people here who do not work, could be better used in ukraine itself.

many areas of ukraine are safe. and can be made even safer with special military protection.

life in germany is extremely expensive.

for what is being paid here for 600 000 people could easily take care of 6 million in ukraine. maybe even more.

nobody benefits from wasting money, least of all the ukrainians.

german tax money is better invested in weapons imo.

and if you invest in housing in ukraine, you are helping the economy there.

plus people would be at home, schools could be expanded.

the german government should put ending the war first and that means allocating all possible resources into the military.

as hard as it is, europe has to become a war economy, because this war will last until putin dies. and this can take years.

it also might not end with him, there might be an even more incompetent over emotional tyrant coming in after him.

ukraine is huge, there is plenty of space to build schools, housing and learning centers.

and from there add recruitement centers for those who want to live and work in other parts of europe.

eta

many of my family have spent years in war zones, especially the 15 year war in lebanon, invasion of kuwait etc…

you cannot help people by wasting money. you must solve the problem, in this case keep throwing money into the military until all of ukraine is liberated

that is the best psychological help for trauma.

get putin and his *insult removed* out of there.

trauma counseling for victims is best done in ukraine. at home.

not in a far away land in a different language where every thing reminds you that you should not be here.

war is horrible.

their physical bodies might be in germany but their hearts and souls are at home. every moment they worry if their families are alive, if their friends are doing well.

put the military first, kick russia out.


Cobalt, I agree with you in principle, and it's always good to be able to report from your own personal experience.

As I have already written, there are increasing numbers of Ukrainian protection seekers here who probably have no business being here and are taking advantage of the system.

Last year, I also took care of a young mother privately. The mother lost her lower leg due to a personal mine and had two totally sweet daughters with her. That is absolutely no reproach against you, but it is already something else, if one has real humans and no statistics before oneself.

I also know from other conversations that Ukrainians do not consider their country safe. There is a considerable fear of nuclear attacks or attacks on nuclear power plants. In this respect, it is understandable that people want to get as far away as possible and possibly not comparable with the war in Lebanon.

Even in supposedly safe areas, there are problems with electricity and medical supplies, and so on.

The answer is certainly not simple.

 



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 08, 2023, 16:06
Very strange trends of German exports to former soviet countries still under russian influence!
Excellent marketing or a shameful way to avoid sanctions? 🤔
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 08, 2023, 22:42
Many here on the forum and in the EU and in other countries of the world do not understand that World War III has been going on for 10 years.

Really? So what are you doing on forums taking with yourself ?  Go and volunteer, whats preventing you to fight for your beliefs? Probably Germans ?   :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 09, 2023, 02:19
Very strange trends of German exports to former soviet countries still under russian influence!
Excellent marketing or a shameful way to avoid sanctions? 🤔
+100
At the same time, Russian satellite countries are also supplied with dual-use goods, which Ukrainians later find in Russian military drones and missiles. Sanctions against Russia have been introduced only formally.
These are such countries as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan. By the way, all these countries are also under the control of China.
There is also Armenia, this country also supports the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 09, 2023, 02:38
Regardless of that, many of your statements are far-fetched! Your KGB agents and all this other nonsense - where do you get all this crap from?

You think only black or white. Which shows that you have no idea how much tact it takes to save the world from a third world war.

I stand by this and have written this here before: I am very grateful that people who think like you do are not in political responsibility.
Wake up there in Germany, wake up in Europe. World War III has been going on for 10 years. Your and not only your position is the position of ostriches. I have already provided a photo.
You can support the Democrats, who are dragging out the victory of Ukraine as much as possible and strengthening the Russians, you can support the policies of Merkel and her colleague Scholz. It's all happened before, the annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938. Doesn't this remind you of anything? Learn history, and don't talk about peace in times of war. Ukraine needs weapons, and whoever does not give them is an enemy and an agent of the Russians. Yes, and according to the laws of wartime, only a tribunal awaits enemies - execution or gallows.

I could also support the right-wing party instead of the democratic parties here in Germany.

Their attitude to Ukraine is quite simple: "Ukraine's problems are none of our business. No money, no weapons! We should buy raw materials from Russia again, so that inflation here will fall again and German companies will remain competitive on the international markets. Build a border fence around Germany against all refugees so that Germany remains German. And push the Dexit (English Gexit). Out of the EU. And wave Russian flags while doing it."

Is that what you think I should rather do? Because you criticize that I tend to be more attracted to the "Democrats"?

This party, which I would compare in many ways to the Republicans in the U.S., could be described by the slogan "Germany First." Ukraine has no place in it - but I had already tried to explain that to you in vain.

You obviously have no idea what's going on here in Germany! And in my opinion also not about what is going on in the USA.
;D ;D ;D

1. You obviously do not carefully and do not read everything from what I write. I already wrote that this pro-Russian policy is being promoted by Russian KGB agents and German collaborators. On German TV, they don’t tell you that the Russians put forward an ultimatum to NATO in 2022, in which they said that NATO should get out on the borders of the 40s of the last century. Of course, the Russians made a mistake by revealing their plans, but in 2022 they believed that their army was the second army in the world (the Ukrainians proved the opposite to them).
So, if Germany does what you wrote, very soon Russian troops and tanks will occupy half or even all of Germany, as it already was, and the Russians will kill and rape your women and children (as they did in 1945) . After the occupation, Putin will recreate the KGB branch in Germany, and all these German collaborators will make a career in the occupation authorities.

2. You do not know well who the Republicans are and are guided only by the populism and idiocy of Trump and some of his supporters.

3. It's okay to criticize the Democrats, because they are now in power and far from doing everything right. In the democratic world, it is considered normal to criticize and even dismiss governments.

You Germans need to hold demonstrations in support of Ukraine and require Scholz to supply Ukraine with a lot of weapons.

slogan "Germany First." - In the German version, it looks like monkeyishness.  ;D Don't be like the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 09, 2023, 03:28
At the expense of Ukrainian refugees in Germany. There are many stories here. As it turned out, Germany is the only country in the EU that pays a lot of money and does not force refugees to work. Naturally, those people who want to receive money and not work want to go to Germany. I wouldn't be surprised if some refugees even pay money to volunteers to be taken exactly to Germany. In other EU countries, Ukrainians are forced to work because other countries pay very little money.
I do not think that one should treat such refugees badly and scold them, this is such a policy of the German government. Perhaps there are not many jobs for refugees in Germany. We also take into account that Germany is the richest country in the EU.
On my own behalf, I will add that, as I already wrote, Germany has been responsible for the financial and political support of Russia for several decades.
You can remember that Germany pays its debts, for example, for many decades Germany let Jews into the country and paid them so much money that the Jews could not work.
At the expense of Ukrainian refugees, I don’t think that they are all cunning and they all paid money to get to Germany, you need to look specifically at each. But why would?...
Personally, I have questions for Ukrainian men who, for money, bribes, illegally left Ukraine and mow down as a refugee in Germany. Such men should be sent back to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 13:45
Very strange trends of German exports to former soviet countries still under russian influence!
Excellent marketing or a shameful way to avoid sanctions? 🤔
+100
At the same time, Russian satellite countries are also supplied with dual-use goods, which Ukrainians later find in Russian military drones and missiles. Sanctions against Russia have been introduced only formally.
These are such countries as Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan. By the way, all these countries are also under the control of China.
There is also Armenia, this country also supports the Russians.
Armenia is the second graph in the post I made above.
Below are Kazahstan and Uzbekistan.
We can see the same trend, but the spike is not as significant as for Kyrgystan and Armenia.
But it's clearly there. This can't be a coincidence.

This is also confirmed by analysing German exports to Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan is also a former soviet country, but their are supported by Turkey, in their war against Armenia, which is backed by Russia.
There is no spike in the German exports to Azerbaijan,  because russia can't use them as a proxy.

 >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 09, 2023, 14:02
This can't be a coincidence.
 >:(
Of course this is not a coincidence. This is how the Russians avoid sanctions. There is also China, which has also increased trade with the Russians.
So what exactly is Germany exporting to these satellite countries of Russia?
The US and EU should impose sanctions on countries that the Russians use as spacers to circumvent sanctions. Also, Scholz must answer why he is trading with the Russians.
Russian stockers also bypass the sanctions imposed against them through these countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 14:32
This can't be a coincidence.
 >:(
Of course this is not a coincidence. This is how the Russians avoid sanctions. There is also China, which has also increased trade with the Russians.
So what exactly is Germany exporting to these satellite countries of Russia?

Details for 2022 here:

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/exports/kyrgyzstan

I see cars, machinery, electronics....

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 09, 2023, 14:46
I see cars, machinery, electronics....
These are dual-use goods, the Russians use them to produce rockets, drones, planes, helicopters, etc.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 09, 2023, 14:57
This can't be a coincidence.
 >:(
Of course this is not a coincidence. This is how the Russians avoid sanctions. There is also China, which has also increased trade with the Russians.
So what exactly is Germany exporting to these satellite countries of Russia?

Details for 2022 here:

https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/exports/kyrgyzstan (https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/exports/kyrgyzstan)

I see cars, machinery, electronics....

I don't really know what you're aiming at here. You have obviously carried out your research with a certain attitude of expectation against Germany and ignored other countries and aspects.

With the following chart, I now throw a new country at you - Italy. France is looking strange as well. The tunnel view is obviously setting a precedent here.

The problem does not lie exclusively in Germany and is known to the German government since at least May:

https://www.reuters.com/world/german-exports-russias-neighbours-fuel-sanctions-evasion-fears-2023-05-16/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/german-exports-russias-neighbours-fuel-sanctions-evasion-fears-2023-05-16/)



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 15:16

The problem does not lie exclusively in Germany
Yes, obviously. But two wrongs don't make a right.
#whatabout Italy doesn't justify anything.

I showed Germany not only because it was part of this discussion, but mainly because it's the biggest EU economy.
One would expect Germany to be an example.  :(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 09, 2023, 15:28

The problem does not lie exclusively in Germany
Yes, obviously. But two wrongs don't make a right.
#whatabout Italy doesn't justify anything.

I showed Germany not only because it was part of this discussion, but mainly because it's the biggest EU economy.
One would expect Germany to be an example.  :(

No, that is not in order. Russians unfortunately also live all over Europe and influence trade, this is not solvable in the short term.

And please refrain from whataboutism towards me.

But it's not an exclusively German problem, * it.

In Thailand, especially in Phuket, the Russians have the whole real estate market under control.

In Sri Lanka and Vietnam, the Russians own many coastal areas.

In Myanmar, the air strikes against the civilian population are largely supported by Russia.

You are steering the discussion in a completely wrong direction - and that annoys me.

Yes, these exports are not ok, but this is not an original German problem.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 15:37
You presented a graph about Italy when the discussion was about Germany.
That's basically the definition of whataboutism.

This is from the same category as:
"Yes, russia invaded Ukraine, but what about the US invading Irak?" Or:
"Yes, russia is a colonial power, but whatabout the US colonizing a continent?".... etc.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on August 09, 2023, 15:39

The problem does not lie exclusively in Germany
Yes, obviously. But two wrongs don't make a right.
#whatabout Italy doesn't justify anything.

I showed Germany not only because it was part of this discussion, but mainly because it's the biggest EU economy.
One would expect Germany to be an example.  :(

It is just not so easy to stop it. A lot of countries have not implemented the same sanctions against Russia as the EU and the USA have, even very important countries like China, India or Turkey. German exports to Turkey have also increased significantly, so the Russians very likely are using them as a proxy to buy stuff, too. The increase is just not so big in percentage, as there was far more trade between Germany and Turkey then between Germany and for example Kyrgyzstan to begin with.

So even if we would cut ties with the former Sowjet republics altogether, Russia would just use other countries to import stuff. As long as it is not stuff that is tightly controlled anyway, like weapons or high end computer chips or the machines to produce them, there is really little chance to fully stop this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 15:43
Russians unfortunately also live all over Europe and influence trade,

I don't think that russians living in Germany influenced the exports of VW and Mercedes in Kyrgystan, with russia as a final destination. You can't actually believe that.

Define short term. May '23 is  more than 1 year after the invasion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 09, 2023, 15:50
You presented a graph about Italy when the discussion was about Germany.
That's basically the definition of whataboutism.

This is from the same category as "Yes, russia invaded Ukraine, but what about the US invading Irak"?
Or: "Yes russia is an colonial power, but whatabout the US colonizing a continent".... etc.

Finally, because I don't think we're coming together here.
These exports are to be stopped without question. I posted the chart to show that this is not an exclusive German problem, but a European problem.
But you have just unpacked the big Whataboutism show here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 15:57
These exports are to be stopped without question

That's what matters. Thanks! 👏
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on August 09, 2023, 16:09
These exports are to be stopped without question

That's what matters. Thanks! 👏

Do you have a suggestion how that should be done?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 09, 2023, 16:41
Regardless of that, many of your statements are far-fetched! Your KGB agents and all this other nonsense - where do you get all this crap from?

You think only black or white. Which shows that you have no idea how much tact it takes to save the world from a third world war.

I stand by this and have written this here before: I am very grateful that people who think like you do are not in political responsibility.
Wake up there in Germany, wake up in Europe. World War III has been going on for 10 years. Your and not only your position is the position of ostriches. I have already provided a photo.
You can support the Democrats, who are dragging out the victory of Ukraine as much as possible and strengthening the Russians, you can support the policies of Merkel and her colleague Scholz. It's all happened before, the annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938. Doesn't this remind you of anything? Learn history, and don't talk about peace in times of war. Ukraine needs weapons, and whoever does not give them is an enemy and an agent of the Russians. Yes, and according to the laws of wartime, only a tribunal awaits enemies - execution or gallows.

I could also support the right-wing party instead of the democratic parties here in Germany.

Their attitude to Ukraine is quite simple: "Ukraine's problems are none of our business. No money, no weapons! We should buy raw materials from Russia again, so that inflation here will fall again and German companies will remain competitive on the international markets. Build a border fence around Germany against all refugees so that Germany remains German. And push the Dexit (English Gexit). Out of the EU. And wave Russian flags while doing it."

Is that what you think I should rather do? Because you criticize that I tend to be more attracted to the "Democrats"?

This party, which I would compare in many ways to the Republicans in the U.S., could be described by the slogan "Germany First." Ukraine has no place in it - but I had already tried to explain that to you in vain.

You obviously have no idea what's going on here in Germany! And in my opinion also not about what is going on in the USA.
;D ;D ;D

So, if Germany does what you wrote, very soon Russian troops and tanks will occupy half or even all of Germany, as it already was, and the Russians will kill and rape your women and children (as they did in 1945) . After the occupation, Putin will recreate the KGB branch in Germany, and all these German collaborators will make a career in the occupation authorities.


That is what I accuse you of. You only know black and white. All Russians are bad people. And "if Germany does what you wrote..."

I did not write that!!! I wrote that in Germany there are increased legal-political tendencies that could lead to what I explained. That is not Germany. Germany - like all other countries and peoples on this planet - consists of a wide spectrum of opinions, cultural backgrounds, religious affiliations, political beliefs, roots of origin, etc.

With you, there are only the Russians, the Germans, the Ukrainians or whatever blanket classifications. Reality is not like that!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 09, 2023, 16:47
Regardless of that, many of your statements are far-fetched! Your KGB agents and all this other nonsense - where do you get all this crap from?

You think only black or white. Which shows that you have no idea how much tact it takes to save the world from a third world war.

I stand by this and have written this here before: I am very grateful that people who think like you do are not in political responsibility.
Wake up there in Germany, wake up in Europe. World War III has been going on for 10 years. Your and not only your position is the position of ostriches. I have already provided a photo.
You can support the Democrats, who are dragging out the victory of Ukraine as much as possible and strengthening the Russians, you can support the policies of Merkel and her colleague Scholz. It's all happened before, the annexation of the Sudetenland in 1938. Doesn't this remind you of anything? Learn history, and don't talk about peace in times of war. Ukraine needs weapons, and whoever does not give them is an enemy and an agent of the Russians. Yes, and according to the laws of wartime, only a tribunal awaits enemies - execution or gallows.

I could also support the right-wing party instead of the democratic parties here in Germany.

Their attitude to Ukraine is quite simple: "Ukraine's problems are none of our business. No money, no weapons! We should buy raw materials from Russia again, so that inflation here will fall again and German companies will remain competitive on the international markets. Build a border fence around Germany against all refugees so that Germany remains German. And push the Dexit (English Gexit). Out of the EU. And wave Russian flags while doing it."

Is that what you think I should rather do? Because you criticize that I tend to be more attracted to the "Democrats"?

This party, which I would compare in many ways to the Republicans in the U.S., could be described by the slogan "Germany First." Ukraine has no place in it - but I had already tried to explain that to you in vain.

You obviously have no idea what's going on here in Germany! And in my opinion also not about what is going on in the USA.
;D ;D ;D

2. You do not know well who the Republicans are and are guided only by the populism and idiocy of Trump and some of his supporters.

3. It's okay to criticize the Democrats, because they are now in power and far from doing everything right. In the democratic world, it is considered normal to criticize and even dismiss governments.


I agree with you on that point:

When I warn about Republican tendencies, I am referring especially to Trump supporters or ultra-conservative groups.

And, yes, of course, the "Democrats" don't do everything right either.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 18:29
These exports are to be stopped without question

That's what matters. Thanks! 👏

Do you have a suggestion how that should be done?

Yes... All governments are granting export licenses to companies under their jurisdiction.
The German government and the EU should disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, and take action against the cheating companies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on August 09, 2023, 18:46
These exports are to be stopped without question

That's what matters. Thanks! 👏

Do you have a suggestion how that should be done?

Yes... All governments are granting export licenses to companies under their jurisdiction.
The German government and the EU should disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, and take action against the cheating companies.

For most transactions, you do not need an export license. At least that is the case in the USA:

https://www.trade.gov/export-licenses (https://www.trade.gov/export-licenses)

And I do not think that it is different in the EU.

And it will not help to disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, as Russia then will just use other countries. Or do you suggest that we should also disallow exports to China, India and Turkey?

Ceasing all exports to the former Sowjet republics may also proof to be counter productive as it will make them dependent on Russia and their allys.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 09, 2023, 19:04


Yes... All governments are granting export licenses to companies under their jurisdiction.
The German government and the EU should disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, and take action against the cheating companies.

Oh, you could have mentioned before you are a communist  ;D

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 19:30


Yes... All governments are granting export licenses to companies under their jurisdiction.
The German government and the EU should disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, and take action against the cheating companies.

Oh, you could have mentioned before you are a communist  ;D

Yeah, the US is communist for implementing sanctions against the russian war machine....  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 19:42
These exports are to be stopped without question

That's what matters. Thanks! 👏

Do you have a suggestion how that should be done?

Yes... All governments are granting export licenses to companies under their jurisdiction.
The German government and the EU should disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, and take action against the cheating companies.

For most transactions, you do not need an export license. At least that is the case in the USA:

https://www.trade.gov/export-licenses (https://www.trade.gov/export-licenses)

And I do not think that it is different in the EU.

And it will not help to disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, as Russia then will just use other countries. Or do you suggest that we should also disallow exports to China, India and Turkey?

Ceasing all exports to the former Sowjet republics may also proof to be counter productive as it will make them dependent on Russia and their allys.

The German government has all the tools needed to stop this from happening.
Here is an extract from the German Export regulations:

6. Restrictions
...
When exporting to a third country, however, it should be noted that not all countries may be exported due to embargoes.
A distinction is made between
- arms embargo
- partial embargo
- Total embargo.
The total embargo prohibits all economic transactions with the affected state ...


I don't think the German government was stupid and didn't know what was going on. I instead believe that they closed their eyes until some Reuters journalist analyzed the stats and broke the news, triggering the German Finance Minster to say:
"The circumvention of sanctions against Russia is unacceptable,"

Besides, we must be certain that the German government knew very well that "Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan are in a customs union with Russia".

Claiming that they blocked exports to russia, while exports to countries in a customs union with russia were allowed, is sad and hypocritical.

But hey, better late than never if there is political will and actions will follow words...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on August 09, 2023, 20:00

And it will not help to disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, as Russia then will just use other countries. Or do you suggest that we should also disallow exports to China, India and Turkey?

Ceasing all exports to the former Sowjet republics may also proof to be counter productive as it will make them dependent on Russia and their allys.

The German government has all the tools needed to stop this from happening.
Here is an extract from the German Export regulations:

6. Restrictions
...
When exporting to a third country, however, it should be noted that not all countries may be exported due to embargoes.
A distinction is made between
- arms embargo
- partial embargo
- Total embargo.
The total embargo prohibits all economic transactions with the affected state ...


I don't think the German government was stupid and didn't know what was going on. I instead believe that they closed their eyes until some Reuters journalist analyzed the stats and broke the news, triggering the German Finance Minster to say:
"The circumvention of sanctions against Russia is unacceptable,"

It's sad and hypocritical, but better late than never if there is political will and actions will follow words...

Could you please answer my question, whether you suggest that Germany or the EU should stop all exports to countries like China, India or Turkey? Because that would be needed to stop the Russians from importing stuff via proxy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 09, 2023, 20:24

And it will not help to disallow exports to Kyrgyzstan & Co, as Russia then will just use other countries. Or do you suggest that we should also disallow exports to China, India and Turkey?

Ceasing all exports to the former Sowjet republics may also proof to be counter productive as it will make them dependent on Russia and their allys.

The German government has all the tools needed to stop this from happening.
Here is an extract from the German Export regulations:

6. Restrictions
...
When exporting to a third country, however, it should be noted that not all countries may be exported due to embargoes.
A distinction is made between
- arms embargo
- partial embargo
- Total embargo.
The total embargo prohibits all economic transactions with the affected state ...


I don't think the German government was stupid and didn't know what was going on. I instead believe that they closed their eyes until some Reuters journalist analyzed the stats and broke the news, triggering the German Finance Minster to say:
"The circumvention of sanctions against Russia is unacceptable,"

It's sad and hypocritical, but better late than never if there is political will and actions will follow words...

Could you please answer my question, whether you suggest that Germany or the EU should stop all exports to countries like China, India or Turkey? Because that would be needed to stop the Russians from importing stuff via proxy.

My point was about exports to Kyrgyzstan and Armenia and to countries that are in the custom union with russia.
In this case, the same embargo applied to russia must be applied to these countries too, unless they choose to break away from this union. It's a simple, logical, and straightforward solution.

You are diverting the focus toward other cases. Is this another form of #whataboutism? "Yes, you talk about cheating through Kyrgystan, but #whatabout cheating through China"?  ::)

Anyway... let me fall for that.
I agree, it is more complicated, but if there is political will, this cheating can be stopped too. Germany and the EU have all the legal tools needed to prevent German and EU companies to export specific goods ending up in russia, through all 3rd countries acting as a proxy.

Even if there are legal loopholes, if there is political will, these loopholes can be closed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 10, 2023, 02:07
What is the point of talking about countries from the Customs union if your countries sell their goods in Russia themselves? Look, for example, at the list of brands in one of the hypermarkets of my city in the depths of Siberia: https://mega.ru/shops/novosibirsk
More than a third of Europe's area is located in Russia. More than 15% of the European population is in Russia. Don't you think that sanctions from Europe are more like economic suicide? Business will never go for it and will always find workarounds.
Any war ends with negotiations. The sooner we succeed in bringing all the leaders to the negotiating table, the sooner we will begin to live in peace and restore broken relations.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 10, 2023, 03:02
I did not have time to write anything, Zero Talent has already written everything that I think.  ;D

From myself I will add that the EU countries and Germany are pursuing an ostrich policy. The USA could stop any deliveries to Russia, as it was in the days of the USSR. The EU looks to the US, and if it sees no financial threats, it continues to export dual-use goods to Russia. Democrats are to blame for this. I am sure that if the Republicans come to power in the USA, Russia will receive more sanctions, and the EU will also receive sanctions for trade with Russians.
Or does anyone have a better suggestion? Do you believe Scholz? Do you think he will stop helping the Russians?
Also the problem is that the citizens of Germany, instead of protesting against trade with Russia, they are friends with the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 10, 2023, 03:04
What is the point of talking about countries from the Customs union if your countries sell their goods in Russia themselves? Look, for example, at the list of brands in one of the hypermarkets of my city in the depths of Siberia: https://mega.ru/shops/novosibirsk
More than a third of Europe's area is located in Russia. More than 15% of the European population is in Russia. Don't you think that sanctions from Europe are more like economic suicide? Business will never go for it and will always find workarounds.
Any war ends with negotiations. The sooner we succeed in bringing all the leaders to the negotiating table, the sooner we will begin to live in peace and restore broken relations.
??? ::) :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 10, 2023, 03:05
All Russians are bad people.
+100
 ;D ;D ;D
 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 10, 2023, 03:29
Stoker, I would like to kindly ask you to delete your last post.
It is not a fine way to take a quote out of context like that in order to impute false claims to others.
The sentence clearly and unmistakably referred to your personal world view. We all know here that this does not represent Wilms' opinion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 10, 2023, 07:47


....and the EU will also receive sanctions for trade with Russians.


LOL  ;D

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 10, 2023, 07:56
We all know here that this does not represent Wilms' opinion.
But this phrase well reflects my opinion and not only mine, but also of millions of Ukrainians and all those who are waging war against modern fascism represented by Russia.
Find at least one Russian who correctly answers the 5 questions I asked, and not only me, but also Zero Talent. These questions are a test for rashism. If a Russian cannot answer them correctly, then he is a rashist and a fascist.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 10, 2023, 08:46
Find at least one Russian who correctly answers the 5 questions
When a person with Nazi views judges the correctness of the answers, this is not even funny.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 10, 2023, 11:42
All Russians are bad people.
+100
 ;D ;D ;D
 8)

The same way you operate, fake news works. Sentences and statements are intentionally taken out of context and thus misrepresented. What you have made out of my statement is repulsive and a disgrace!!!

Corona deniers, conspiracy theorists and supporters of Russian government work with these means of misinformation to a great extent. The Russian government is also doing just that.

And people like you! You work with the same means as the Russian government. And you don't even realize it!

You should be ashamed of your behavior. I terminate all communication with you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 10, 2023, 13:24
Sentences and statements are intentionally taken out of context and thus misrepresented.
:o
I left only the phrase with which I agreed. And I confirmed my agreement with this phrase. What claims?  ;D ;D ;D

I terminate all communication with you.
:'( :'( :'(

Wilm, you have no sense of humor at all. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 10, 2023, 15:47
An interesting article recently published in The Economist (ending with a great Scholz statement 👏)
👇
Vladimir Putin’s useful idiots
Too many European politicians are failing to confront Russia
Russia’s president surrounded by smaller accolytes
Jul 3rd 2023 | BERLIN


In early may Russia’s ambassador to Germany threw a party to honour Soviet victory in the second world war. Guests at the embassy, a Stalin-era colossus that occupies more German territory than the nearby parliament building, included a host of dignitaries. The last boss of communist East Germany, Egon Krenz, now 86, mingled under the chandeliers with Gerhard Schröder, chancellor of united Germany from 1998 to 2005 (and, more recently, a lobbyist for Russian energy firms). Tino Chrupalla, co-leader of Alternative for Germany (afd), a far-right party, sported a tie in the colours of the Russian Federation.

The event earned a bit of scorn in the German press, but little other notice. Sixteen months into Russia’s war on Ukraine public opinion in Germany, as across Europe, overwhelmingly views Russia as an aggressor to be shunned, and Ukraine as a defender deserving help. The purveyors of Russian influence now stand diminished. Mr Schröder, for instance, chaired the board of the now-closed Nord Stream pipelines that addicted Germany to Russian gas. Last summer Russia shut the pipes, which mysterious saboteurs then blew up. The ex-chancellor has been bumped from clubs, disinvited from his Social Democratic Party’s functions (though he remains a party member), and stripped of government-provided office facilities. As for Mr Chrupalla, the afd leader’s cosiness with Russia did not just annoy German tabloids. Leaked messages reveal dismay among his own party’s mps.

Yet even if Russia’s effort to project persuasive power across Europe has not quite succeeded, neither has it completely failed. A subculture of what Germans dismiss as Putinversteher—sympathisers who “understand” the Russian leader Vladimir Putin—thrives outside the mainstream. Throughout Europe their whispering forms a leitmotif in the rumble of complaint about seemingly unrelated troubles such as inflation, crumbling public services, overbearing regulations and fears of immigration. The grumblers have only just begun to challenge the scale of their governments’ generosity to Ukraine, which by February this year amounted to more than €60bn ($65bn) in economic and military aid from Brussels and the eu’s individual members (and €70bn if Britain is added, a sum roughly equal to America’s contribution). If Ukraine’s fight goes on too long or goes wrong, there are plenty waiting in the wings to take up the blame game.

Europe’s “useful idiots”, a cold-war term for unwitting allies of communism, span a wide spectrum. In politics, parties on both the far right and far left disagree on much; over Ukraine these extremes have often converged in demanding an instant “peace” that would in effect reward Russian aggression with land. In the media and academe, intellectuals still seem happy to ignore evidence of Russia’s imperial intent and its drift into criminality, and to bemoan European entanglement in what they parse as a proxy war between America and Russia, or perhaps, speculating more grandly still, between America and China. And in the world of business, despite multiple rounds of Western sanctions, Russia still has plenty of “friends” too.

Mr Putin’s enablers include several European governments. Viktor Orban, the prime minister of Hungary since 2010, has been the most obvious. The populist strongman has repeatedly criticised Western support for Ukraine and continued Hungary’s imports of Russian gas. His government also refuses to allow the transit of weapons given to Ukraine by Hungary’s fellow members of nato and the eu. Next-door Austria has, more quietly but equally profitably, largely sat out the struggle, too, citing its non-membership of nato and self-appointed role as a bridge between East and West, offering little aid to Ukraine even as its trade with Russia has surged.

Greece, another eu member, is complying with the eu’s sanctions, but has balked at tightening any further those on shipping Russian oil, perhaps because Greek firms happen to pocket so much from the trade. Only recently and under heavy American pressure did Cyprus, an offshore financial haven, shut down some 4,000 local bank accounts held by Russians. Facing less pressure, non-eu countries such as Turkey and Serbia don’t even bother to disguise the lucrative back-door service they provide to Russia.

Some countries have twisted seemingly noble intentions into policies that warm Mr Putin’s heart. Citing its vaunted neutrality, Switzerland has wielded arcane local laws to block the supply of arms to Ukraine, including 96 mothballed Leopard tanks sitting in Italy that happen to belong to a private Swiss firm. Scoring repeated own goals with freedom-of-speech principles, police in Sweden have permitted public burnings of the Koran. This has hugely irked Muslim-majority Turkey, which wields a veto over Sweden’s bid to join nato. And Mr Putin has gleefully trolled the Swedes. On a trip to Dagestan before the Eid holiday at the end of June, he had himself filmed tenderly holding a Koran, as he explained that under Russian law it is a crime to desecrate holy things.

Yet even solid-looking bricks in the would-be European wall of support for Ukraine can crumble. Slovakia, for instance, has been a vital conduit for Western aid and recently pledged its fleet of 13 Soviet-era Mig-29 fighter jets to the Ukrainian air force. But polls show that the party of Robert Fico, a Russophile leftist who has blamed “Ukrainian fascists” for provoking Mr Putin, looks likely to win national elections scheduled for September.

France is a linchpin of both nato and the eu. But a French parliamentary panel recently scolded Marine Le Pen, the closest challenger to President Emmanuel Macron in last year’s election, for parroting Russian propaganda following its annexation of Crimea in 2014. Ms Le Pen strenuously denies that her defence of Mr Putin had anything to do with the €9m in loans her party received that year from Russian-controlled banks. She has condemned Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, but last October, seven months into the war, she declared that sanctions on Russia were not working.

In Italy, although the hard-right prime minister, Giorgia Meloni, is a strong supporter of Ukraine, Matteo Salvini, who leads the second-biggest party in her coalition, is another opponent of sanctions and, at least up until the invasion, was a declared fan of Mr Putin’s.

Germany, like France, seems a strong pillar. Yet the afd, bluntly described by the head of the country’s internal intelligence agency as a propagator of Russian narratives, has been surging in the polls. It is now in a dead tie for second place with the ruling Social Democrats. At the opposite political pole Sahra Wagenknecht, a telegenic leftist and at-all-costs peacenik, says pollsters tell her she could win 19-30% of a German national vote. Although public support for helping Ukraine remains strong, the trend is drifting downwards.

Useful-idiot narratives are surprisingly resilient. Their main points—that nato “provoked” Russia’s repeated attacks on and eventual invasion of Ukraine, that Ukraine is an artificial entity created on land that is rightfully Russia’s, and that America pours oil on this fire to sell weapons and sustain its global hegemony—echo in various ways. One is what Italians call benaltrismo or whataboutery: nato attacked Serbia in 1999 and Libya in 2011, plus America invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, so what’s the big deal if Russia misbehaves? Another variety is dietrismo, the notion that there must be some “inside” story behind events. Writing in the New Left Review, Wolfgang Streeck, a German sociologist, posits that the hidden purpose of the crisis is to set the stage for putting a fearful eu under the thumb of a pumped-up nato.

What seems to link Europe’s far right, far left and “intellectual” opposition to Western policy is something simpler, however. It is a hoary, cold-war-style anti-Americanism. The East German-born Mr Chrupalla, for instance, insists the Amis have profited from Ukraine’s war by forcing Germany to switch from piped Russian natural gas to costlier liquified gas shipped from America. This is a trap, he hints, because imported American energy is so much more expensive that German manufacturers will have to shift production to America. Ms Wagenknecht, his left-wing rival, believes America forced the war on Russia by attempting to pull Ukraine into its “sphere of influence”.

At a recent political rally near Berlin Olaf Scholz, Germany’s chancellor, found himself heckled by a chorus of beefy peaceniks shouting “Warmonger!” Normally polite, soft-spoken and unflappable, Mr Scholz roared back into the microphone that it was Mr Putin who wanted to destroy and conquer Ukraine. “If you loudmouths had even a little bit of brain, you would know the real warmonger!”
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 10, 2023, 16:52
An interesting article recently published in The Economist (ending with a great Scholz statement 👏)
👇
that Ukraine is an artificial entity created on land that is rightfully Russia’s
It's time for the world media to say that when Kyiv was, Moscow was not even in the project yet. Muscovy arose on the lands previously owned by Ukrainians.
Russians are not Slavs at all, they are Asians.

At a recent political rally near Berlin Olaf Scholz, Germany’s chancellor, found himself heckled by a chorus of beefy peaceniks shouting “Warmonger!” Normally polite, soft-spoken and unflappable, Mr Scholz roared back into the microphone that it was Mr Putin who wanted to destroy and conquer Ukraine. “If you loudmouths had even a little bit of brain, you would know the real warmonger!” [/i]
I would like that in addition to loud and beautiful words, Scholz did something against the Russians. He supplied weapons to Ukraine, stopped trade with Russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on August 10, 2023, 19:04
My point was about exports to Kyrgyzstan and Armenia and to countries that are in the custom union with russia.
In this case, the same embargo applied to russia must be applied to these countries too, unless they choose to break away from this union. It's a simple, logical, and straightforward solution.

You are diverting the focus toward other cases. Is this another form of #whataboutism? "Yes, you talk about cheating through Kyrgystan, but #whatabout cheating through China"?  ::)

Anyway... let me fall for that.
I agree, it is more complicated, but if there is political will, this cheating can be stopped too. Germany and the EU have all the legal tools needed to prevent German and EU companies to export specific goods ending up in russia, through all 3rd countries acting as a proxy.

Even if there are legal loopholes, if there is political will, these loopholes can be closed.

This has nothing to do with whataboutism, it is just a question of whether stopping trade the former Sowjet Republics will close the loopholes or not and I tried to explain why I think it will not close.

It also doesn't matter, whether those countries are in a customs union with Russia or not. Russia can just as easily import stuff through other countries, as long as they don't have implemented the same sanctions as th EU and the USA. We are not talking weapons or other restricted material here, after all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 10, 2023, 19:25
No. It's definitely not the same.

Custom union means zero border control, no checks whatsoever, and zero additional expenses.
This is why it's much easier for German and EU companies to continue to supply the russian war machine through these proxies.

I am not saying that a similar embargo applied to these russian puppet states (as currently applied to russia itself) will stop the smuggling. But it will make it more difficult and more expensive, if alternatives routes must be found. Even in the absence of additional political will to go all the way, the smuggling will be reduced.

This is no different than any common law. No law is stopping bad people from doing bad things, if the payoff is worth the risks.
And yet, we do have laws in a civilized society, because well-defined laws are making bad things too expensive.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on August 10, 2023, 19:30
You presented a graph about Italy when the discussion was about Germany.
That's basically the definition of whataboutism.

This is from the same category as "Yes, russia invaded Ukraine, but what about the US invading Irak"?
Or: "Yes russia is an colonial power, but whatabout the US colonizing a continent".... etc.

Finally, because I don't think we're coming together here.
These exports are to be stopped without question. I posted the chart to show that this is not an exclusive German problem, but a European problem.
But you have just unpacked the big Whataboutism show here.

Yes,there are sadly many European companies being investigated for indirectly trading with Moscow and circumventing sanctions,triangulating with Maldives,India and Armenia and other countries.

in 2022,53 million of dollars of USA semiconductors passed through the Maldives on their way to Moscow….so what?

United States is not spotless,just as Italy is not or Germany or any other NATO country,there are no knights in shining armor,often integrity fails when it comes to money…lots of money!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 11, 2023, 02:22
We are not talking weapons or other restricted material here, after all.
That's what we're talking about. The Russians buy what they need to produce missiles, drones and other military equipment.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 11, 2023, 02:24
You presented a graph about Italy when the discussion was about Germany.
That's basically the definition of whataboutism.

This is from the same category as "Yes, russia invaded Ukraine, but what about the US invading Irak"?
Or: "Yes russia is an colonial power, but whatabout the US colonizing a continent".... etc.

Finally, because I don't think we're coming together here.
These exports are to be stopped without question. I posted the chart to show that this is not an exclusive German problem, but a European problem.
But you have just unpacked the big Whataboutism show here.

Yes,there are sadly many European companies being investigated for indirectly trading with Moscow and circumventing sanctions,triangulating with Maldives,India and Armenia and other countries.

in 2022,53 million of dollars of USA semiconductors passed through the Maldives on their way to Moscow….so what?

United States is not spotless,just as Italy is not or Germany or any other NATO country,there are no knights in shining armor,often integrity fails when it comes to money…lots of money!
The USSR was behind an iron wall. Russia and all the countries that support it should be behind the iron wall. There is a third world war with fascism, if you continue to support the Russians and China, it will end very badly for the world. All politicians who promote trade with the Russians should be put in jail. Democrats in the US have not yet imposed sanctions on countries that supply Russia. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Democrats lose the election.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 11, 2023, 02:26
The problem is not only with Scholz, the problem is with the Germans who do not protest against the policies of their government. Here the Germans tell me how good the Russians are.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 11, 2023, 05:10
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/10/poland-president-duda-ukraine-interview/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/10/poland-president-duda-ukraine-interview/)
“It is very simple,” Polish President Andrzej Duda told me last week. “Right now, Russian imperialism can be stopped cheaply, because American soldiers are not dying.”
How much is hidden behind this phrase...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 11, 2023, 07:38
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/10/poland-president-duda-ukraine-interview/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/10/poland-president-duda-ukraine-interview/)
“It is very simple,” Polish President Andrzej Duda told me last week. “Right now, Russian imperialism can be stopped cheaply, because American soldiers are not dying.”
How much is hidden behind this phrase...
russian imperialism is in plain sight, not hidden behind that phrase.

It's so sad that Ukrainians have to suffer and die defending their country against an imperialist aggressor. That's what's hidden behind that phrase.

Also what is hidden is russia's nationalist-fascist regime (n*zism in short) sadly, broadly supported by the russian civilian society. >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 11, 2023, 10:40
Why is Russia not disconnected from the global Internet?
Russians pose a threat to the civilized world:
1. They spread Russian propaganda on social networks and forums.
2. They interfere in the elections of other countries.
3. They inflict hacker strikes on any objects.
4. They raise the Russian economy.
5. Using the Internet, the Russians recruit new KGB agents and keep in touch with existing ones.
etc. and so on.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 11, 2023, 11:10
Statistics about Republican support for Ukraine and Biden's very weak policy. Most Republicans support Ukraine and against the Russians!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/27/republicans-support-ukraine-war/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/27/republicans-support-ukraine-war/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 11, 2023, 11:38
Bakhmut, Ukraine.
Armed Forces of Ukraine liquidate Russian terrorists from Altai (Siberia). There are English subtitles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Ufctf8A7c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Ufctf8A7c)

Russian losses: 6 – killed, 21 – wounded. Another 8 occupiers were captured.

This is a video of the combat operation of the soldiers of the Third Assault in the Bakhmut direction, as a result of which 1,200 meters of Ukrainian land was liberated. It was also possible to cut the logistics hub, stopping the active defense of the enemy on the eastern bank of the Siverskyi-Donets-Donbas canal.

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 11, 2023, 12:48
Statistics about Republican support for Ukraine and Biden's very weak policy. Most Republicans support Ukraine and against the Russians!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/27/republicans-support-ukraine-war/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/27/republicans-support-ukraine-war/)

... and yet, what you fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) is that those who initiated the anti-Ukraine amendments were Republicans: Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both HUGE trump supporters, because they think alike and their policies are identical.

You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that ALL those 70+ who voted in favor of those anti-Ukraine amendments were Republicans, while NONE ( = ZERO) of the elected Democrats supported them.

You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that if 59% of Americans support continued U.S. military assistance for Ukraine, but only 50% of the Republicans, this means that we rather have more Ukraine skeptics among Republicans than Democrats.

You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that trump will win the GoP nomination.

You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that trump claims he’ll end the war in 24 hours. And that's by asking Ukrainians to give up their lands or else stop all US aid.
 ::)

Slava Ukraini!
(https://media.tenor.com/xz4ukCgpZQsAAAAM/ukraine-ninisjgufi.gif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 12, 2023, 01:41
Zero Talent, I have provided a link to the stats. I do not argue with your phrases, because I do not claim the opposite. I don't care about Trump and his supporters, I wrote about the Republicans.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 12, 2023, 02:31
You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that trump claims he’ll end the war in 24 hours. And that's by asking Ukrainians to give up their lands or else stop all US aid.
 ::)
You don't have to listen to what the politicians say. We need to look at what will happen under their rule. The point is that Biden and Scholz sing songs in defense of Ukraine, but at the same time they do not give Ukraine the necessary weapons, forbid them to be used where necessary. Germany trades with the Russians.
If Trump becomes president, he will sign whatever the Republicans tell him to sign. And while he can say any idiocy, it will not matter. Trump is just a campaign clown who brings the Republicans to power.
I think the Republicans will strengthen sanctions against Russia, give more weapons to Ukraine. Also, sanctions will be imposed against Germany and other countries supporting the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 12, 2023, 05:06
The policy of the Democrats towards Ukraine is the daily sacrifice of Ukrainians. The democrats have no goal of destroying the Russian army, destroying Russia, surrounding it with an iron wall. Ukraine is supplied with just enough weapons so that Ukraine cannot destroy the Russian occupiers. The Democrats are constantly making various deals with the Russians, they are trading on blood. Many probably are satisfied with this, only Ukrainians are not satisfied with this. Why should Ukrainians sacrifice themselves every day for the sake of peace in other countries?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 12, 2023, 08:39
It's a nice day today. Armed Forces of Ukraine strike with rockets on the Crimean bridge. The missiles are Ukrainian, not accurate, but work is underway.

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 12, 2023, 08:39
Zero Talent, I have provided a link to the stats. I do not argue with your phrases, because I do not claim the opposite. I don't care about Trump and his supporters, I wrote about the Republicans.

Trump and his supporters ARE Republicans.

He will win the nomination and all Republicans will align behind him, like they did in 2016 and 2020.

Here is another attempt to defund Biden's administration support for Ukraine, initiated yesterday, by Republicans.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 12, 2023, 08:44
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 12, 2023, 08:58
Statistics about Republican support for Ukraine and Biden's very weak policy. Most Republicans support Ukraine and against the Russians!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/27/republicans-support-ukraine-war/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/27/republicans-support-ukraine-war/)

... and yet, what you fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) is that those who initiated the anti-Ukraine amendments were Republicans: Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene, both HUGE trump supporters, because they think alike and their policies are identical.

You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that ALL those 70+ who voted in favor of those anti-Ukraine amendments were Republicans, while NONE ( = ZERO) of the elected Democrats supported them.

You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that if 59% of Americans support continued U.S. military assistance for Ukraine, but only 50% of the Republicans, this means that we rather have more Ukraine skeptics among Republicans than Democrats.

You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that trump will win the GoP nomination.

You also fail or don't want to understand (ostrich syndrome?) that trump claims he’ll end the war in 24 hours. And that's by asking Ukrainians to give up their lands or else stop all US aid.
 ::)

Slava Ukraini!
(https://media.tenor.com/xz4ukCgpZQsAAAAM/ukraine-ninisjgufi.gif)

In addition, there are statements from the Republican camp that advocate ending aid to Ukraine as much as possible.
Republican strategist and former Trump adviser Elbridge Colby, who is being touted in Washington as a potential foreign policy adviser to a possible incoming Republican administration, says the U.S. needs all resources to focus on a confrontation with China.
He considers the Russia-Ukraine conflict to be comparatively insignificant and a European problem.
He says the burden of the Ukraine war must be borne by Europe - the U.S. has no resources to spare for it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 12, 2023, 13:44
Trump and his supporters ARE Republicans.
He will win the nomination and all Republicans will align behind him, like they did in 2016 and 2020.

Here is another attempt to defund Biden's administration support for Ukraine, initiated yesterday, by Republicans.
This was covered in the article I linked to. Such proposals are supported only by a small group of people.
In 2016-2020, Republicans along with Democrats voted in such a way that Trump was forced to sign their decisions, or these decisions would take effect without Trump's signature.
I do not agree that all Republicans will abruptly become Trump supporters.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 12, 2023, 13:48
Republican strategist and former Trump adviser Elbridge Colby, who is being touted in Washington as a potential foreign policy adviser to a possible incoming Republican administration, says the U.S. needs all resources to focus on a confrontation with China.
He considers the Russia-Ukraine conflict to be comparatively insignificant and a European problem.
He says the burden of the Ukraine war must be borne by Europe - the U.S. has no resources to spare for it.
Yes it's true. I agree with such statements. China poses a serious threat to the entire world. The Russian Empire attacked Ukraine on the orders of China. If the Chinese empire is liquidated, all other fascist countries such as North Korea, Iran and Russia will quickly self-destruct.
Russia now poses a greater threat to the EU than to the US. Therefore, Germany must stop trading with the Russians and must produce a lot of weapons and supply them to Ukraine. This applies not only to Germany, but to the entire EU.
And in general, drive the Russians out of Germany, most of them are rashists and work for putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 12, 2023, 13:51
.
?
 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 12, 2023, 16:02
Trump and his supporters ARE Republicans.
He will win the nomination and all Republicans will align behind him, like they did in 2016 and 2020.

Here is another attempt to defund Biden's administration support for Ukraine, initiated yesterday, by Republicans.
This was covered in the article I linked to.

No. It was not. Your article is from July 27th and it is discussing 2 older Republican initiatives.

The one I just mentioned above is a new Republican push against Ukraine, from yesterday, August 11th, 2023.

You still don't get it: Republicans are an existential threat to Ukraine. They are relentless. They will offer it (or a big chunk of it) to putin on a silver plate if trump takes control of the White House.

Amazing how deep the ostrich buried his head in the sand.  :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 13, 2023, 02:42
Trump and his supporters ARE Republicans.
He will win the nomination and all Republicans will align behind him, like they did in 2016 and 2020.

Here is another attempt to defund Biden's administration support for Ukraine, initiated yesterday, by Republicans.
This was covered in the article I linked to.

No. It was not. Your article is from July 27th and it is discussing 2 older Republican initiatives.

The one I just mentioned above is a new Republican push against Ukraine, from yesterday, August 11th, 2023.

You still don't get it: Republicans are an existential threat to Ukraine. They are relentless. They will offer it (or a big chunk of it) to putin on a silver plate if trump takes control of the White House.

Amazing how deep the ostrich buried his head in the sand.  :-\
July 27 or August 11, what's the difference? The same people offer something. You clearly do not understand what was written in that article. You probably really like the Democrats. You tell a lot of horror stories, constantly mention the ostrich. In my opinion, the ostrich in this case is you.  ;D
Don't be afraid of the Republicans, they are the good guys who will make Germany pay for their good policy towards Russia, will make Germany produce a lot of weapons for Ukraine and not only Germany. Democrats are cowards.

And even these initiatives of Trump supporters are not directed against Ukraine. These Republicans are already signaling to the EU that it is mainly the EU countries that should pay for the war in Europe.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 13, 2023, 03:37
I see that everyone here on the forum is afraid of the Republicans.  ;D
You are not alone, Russia, China, Iran and North Korea are also afraid of the Republicans. And this is the main point!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 13, 2023, 05:31
So, thanks to the Democrats and the Germans, the war in Ukraine continues. NATO countries have supplied very few weapons, tanks, and have not supplied aircraft or long-range missiles at all. Until autumn, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will fight according to the rules of the First World War. The war will continue for the next third year.
I think these disastrous results of the Democrats are used by the Republicans in the elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 13, 2023, 06:01
Slow counteroffensive darkens mood in Ukraine
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/10/ukraine-national-mood-counteroffensive-gloom/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/10/ukraine-national-mood-counteroffensive-gloom/)

F-16 training for Ukrainian pilots faces delays and uncertainty
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/11/f-16-fighters-ukraine-training-delays/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/11/f-16-fighters-ukraine-training-delays/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 13, 2023, 07:06
Ukraine Makes ‘Tactically Significant’ Progress in Its Counteroffensive
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/12/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/12/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war.html)

It’s not the F-16 fighter which will win the Ukraine war, but the missiles it carries
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/11/f-16-fighter-jets-ukraine-missiles-war-winning/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/11/f-16-fighter-jets-ukraine-missiles-war-winning/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on August 13, 2023, 14:28
So, thanks to the Democrats and the Germans, the war in Ukraine continues.

Yes, indeed. Without their support for the Ukraine, Putin would problaby hosting a victory parade in Kyiv by now.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Asthebelltolls on August 13, 2023, 14:42
     This topic has nothing to do with the REAL war currently confronting ALL of us but it does emphasize the total stupidity and lack of true leadership our little blue planet needs. Rasputin, Bideless, Justin Tooslow, etc. It doesn't matter. This planet is dying while we, the people, elect clowns to carry on convincing the
masses that their actions are conducted to strengthen and protect the borders they live within. This is while the real enemy, climate change and global warming, is destroying our little blue planet.
     We are documentarians. Our images present the stark truth. The reality of the era we live in and how our Clowns, with their focus on domination, ignores the true reality. Our planet is dying. The images we take are solid and indisputable. Let's hope our concerted effort will convince the masses before it's too late.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 13, 2023, 16:34
     This topic has nothing to do with the REAL war currently confronting ALL of us but it does emphasize the total stupidity and lack of true leadership our little blue planet needs. Rasputin, Bideless, Justin Tooslow, etc. It doesn't matter. This planet is dying while we, the people, elect clowns to carry on convincing the
masses that their actions are conducted to strengthen and protect the borders they live within. This is while the real enemy, climate change and global warming, is destroying our little blue planet.
     We are documentarians. Our images present the stark truth. The reality of the era we live in and how our Clowns, with their focus on domination, ignores the true reality. Our planet is dying. The images we take are solid and indisputable. Let's hope our concerted effort will convince the masses before it's too late.

Finally a different topic on this multi topic thread.

Completely agree with nature going wild as we were used to have it. On the long term it's not that weird. Where I live we had a kilometer (around 3,000 feet) of ice on our land and we have had periods you could just walk to England on the oceans bed.

Man made disaster or not (nowadays) what is it you prefer to put your money on and focus on? In reducing CO2 emissions or in water level protection? Or both, whatever you believe. Just curious :)

Personally I believe that focus should be on preventing damage first and then on spending money on this questionable CO2 story. I am convinced we have put more CO2 in the air then if we were not there but I still think (look at all the bush fires and volcano eruptions) that mother nature is quite a bit stronger of getting things twisted then we are. Life will always go on, with or without us, whatever we do, so then in order to protect our species defence should be our focus now. Not saying we should change our way of life but deal with immenent threats first. You know building dikes along rivers, seawalls etc...
With just focussing on CO2 reduction (which is a good idea) it's just wishful thinking that problems will go away by itself.

To give you an example. With covid we have reduced an enormous amount in Co2 reduction for two years, yet we are confronted with enormous natural disasters this year. Sure things don't work that quickly and it is matter of decades but still we are not prepared to take on these disasters (man made or not) and we are not putting any money in preventing this collateral damage, are we?

So, if you had (theoretically) 100 dollars to spend. How much would go to prevention and how much to to protection?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 14, 2023, 05:20
Let's hope our concerted effort will convince the masses before it's too late.
Russians and Chinese will not be convinced. Most of the Russians live in conditions comparable to the Middle Ages and according to the rules of the barbarians. For two years now, the Russians have been creating ecocide in Ukraine, and they promise to blow up the nuclear power plant. I see in the world media little is written about the damage to the environment for the entire planet. Everyone thinks that if the Russians blew up the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power station, then the chemical waste remains only in Ukraine, but this is a lie.
Now the main threats to the environment are the existence of the Russian Empire and the Chinese Empire. First of all, these empires must be liquidated.

The war in Ukraine is a human tragedy. It’s also an environmental disaster.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/13/ukraine-war-environment-impact-disaster/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/13/ukraine-war-environment-impact-disaster/)

Ukraine dam’s destruction could ‘forever’ change ecosystems, officials say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/06/06/ukraine-dam-environment-destruction/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/06/06/ukraine-dam-environment-destruction/)

War in Ukraine poses environmental risk now and in the future, advocates say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/19/war-ukraine-poses-environmental-risk-now-future-advocates-say/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/19/war-ukraine-poses-environmental-risk-now-future-advocates-say/)

ASSESSING THE ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS OF THE WAR IN UKRAINE
https://wwfcee.org/our-offices/ukraine/assessing-the-environmental-impacts-of-the-war-in-ukraine (https://wwfcee.org/our-offices/ukraine/assessing-the-environmental-impacts-of-the-war-in-ukraine)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 14, 2023, 05:29
Bakhmut, Ukraine. Undermining a mine of a Russian infantry fighting vehicle.  8)

https://t.me/Pravda_Gerashchenko/77310
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 14, 2023, 05:42
So, thanks to the Democrats and the Germans, the war in Ukraine continues.

Yes, indeed. Without their support for the Ukraine, Putin would problaby hosting a victory parade in Kyiv by now.
The policy of cowardly democrats leads to the slow extermination of Ukraine and Ukrainians. The protection of the EU countries is achieved through the daily sacrifice of Ukrainians to the Russian orcs.
I hope the Republicans win the next election. I don't see any other way.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 14, 2023, 11:36
This banner, displayed in Tambov/russia shows the old soviet union plus the former Warsaw Pact countries, the former Yugoslavia, Greece, Finland, Mongolia and Alaska as part of a unified Russia, under the slogan:

"We will teach you to love the Motherland".

Slogan valid for Alaska, too!!!

Well done, russia, well done!  ::)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 14, 2023, 11:41
This banner, displayed in Tambov/russia shows the old soviet union plus the former Warsaw Pact countries, the former Yugoslavia, Greece, Finland, Mongolia and Alaska as part of a unified Russia, under the slogan:

"We will teach you to love the Motherland".

Valid for Alaska!!!

Well done, russia, well done!  ::)


Incredible!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 14, 2023, 12:10
This banner, displayed in Tambov/russia shows the old soviet union plus the former Warsaw Pact countries, the former Yugoslavia, Greece, Finland, Mongolia and Alaska as part of a unified Russia, under the slogan:

"We will teach you to love the Motherland".

Valid for Alaska!!!

Well done, russia, well done!  ::)

Incredible!
:o  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 14, 2023, 12:11
EXCLUSIVE: Hunter Biden's Kazakh business partner Kenes Rakishev helped supply armored vehicles to Putin-backed forces that invaded Ukraine alongside Russia, report claims.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12394729/Hunter-Bidens-Kazakh-business-partner-Kenes-Rakishev-helped-supply-armored-vehicles-Putin-backed-forces-invaded-Ukraine-alongside-Russia-report-claims.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12394729/Hunter-Bidens-Kazakh-business-partner-Kenes-Rakishev-helped-supply-armored-vehicles-Putin-backed-forces-invaded-Ukraine-alongside-Russia-report-claims.html)

 ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 14, 2023, 21:12
     This topic has nothing to do with the REAL war currently confronting ALL of us but it does emphasize the total stupidity and lack of true leadership our little blue planet needs. Rasputin, Bideless, Justin Tooslow, etc. It doesn't matter. This planet is dying while we, the people, elect clowns to carry on convincing the
masses that their actions are conducted to strengthen and protect the borders they live within. This is while the real enemy, climate change and global warming, is destroying our little blue planet.
     We are documentarians. Our images present the stark truth. The reality of the era we live in and how our Clowns, with their focus on domination, ignores the true reality. Our planet is dying. The images we take are solid and indisputable. Let's hope our concerted effort will convince the masses before it's too late.

Well said.

As I watched the horror and devastation in Maui Hawaii this week, I realized that this could happen now anywhere in the world. That's the scary part.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 14, 2023, 21:17
     This topic has nothing to do with the REAL war currently confronting ALL of us but it does emphasize the total stupidity and lack of true leadership our little blue planet needs. Rasputin, Bideless, Justin Tooslow, etc. It doesn't matter. This planet is dying while we, the people, elect clowns to carry on convincing the
masses that their actions are conducted to strengthen and protect the borders they live within. This is while the real enemy, climate change and global warming, is destroying our little blue planet.
     We are documentarians. Our images present the stark truth. The reality of the era we live in and how our Clowns, with their focus on domination, ignores the true reality. Our planet is dying. The images we take are solid and indisputable. Let's hope our concerted effort will convince the masses before it's too late.

Finally a different topic on this multi topic thread.

Completely agree with nature going wild as we were used to have it. On the long term it's not that weird. Where I live we had a kilometer (around 3,000 feet) of ice on our land and we have had periods you could just walk to England on the oceans bed.

Man made disaster or not (nowadays) what is it you prefer to put your money on and focus on? In reducing CO2 emissions or in water level protection? Or both, whatever you believe. Just curious :)

Personally I believe that focus should be on preventing damage first and then on spending money on this questionable CO2 story. I am convinced we have put more CO2 in the air then if we were not there but I still think (look at all the bush fires and volcano eruptions) that mother nature is quite a bit stronger of getting things twisted then we are. Life will always go on, with or without us, whatever we do, so then in order to protect our species defence should be our focus now. Not saying we should change our way of life but deal with immenent threats first. You know building dikes along rivers, seawalls etc...
With just focussing on CO2 reduction (which is a good idea) it's just wishful thinking that problems will go away by itself.

To give you an example. With covid we have reduced an enormous amount in Co2 reduction for two years, yet we are confronted with enormous natural disasters this year. Sure things don't work that quickly and it is matter of decades but still we are not prepared to take on these disasters (man made or not) and we are not putting any money in preventing this collateral damage, are we?

So, if you had (theoretically) 100 dollars to spend. How much would go to prevention and how much to to protection?

50/50. I think we should and can do both.

A lot has been said on another thread about stopping our reliance on fossil fuels (and that is crucial) - but this is also worth watching about how to remove carbon from our atmosphere and waters:

https://youtu.be/7o2WTZqxkd0

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 15, 2023, 04:31
Ecological problems are a consequence of the existence of such fascist and totalitarian empires as Russia and China. Without eliminating the cause, it will not be possible to eliminate the consequences.
The EU countries relied on Russian gas and planned to improve their ecology. The war in Europe has led to the fact that the EU is no longer up to the environment. As I understand it, coal is also used to eliminate dependence on Russian gas.

Talking about the environment is certainly good, but not during the war. For some reason, these conversations remind me of ostriches with their heads stuck in the sand.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 15, 2023, 04:46
Ukrainian military experts are now talking a lot about the fact that Ukraine's victory over Russia is tied to the US elections. There is an opinion that Biden wants Ukraine to defeat the Russians not in 2023, but in 2024. If this is true, then this is hypocrisy. To make millions of people suffer and watch how the environment is being destroyed is cynical.
But, even if the experts are right, this will improve my opinion of the Democrats a little, because while I believe that the Democrats should not be in power at all, as long as countries like Russia and China exist. So far, I see that Democrats cannot or do not know how to solve world problems.
Of course, 2024 will show everything. Biden will win the election only if Ukraine wins.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 15, 2023, 05:23
G20 Leaders' Summit, New Delhi
September 9 - 10, 2023

https://www.g20.org/en/g20-india-2023/new-delhi-summit/ (https://www.g20.org/en/g20-india-2023/new-delhi-summit/)

Among the invitees we see Hitler of the 21st century, putin.
But what about the warrant for his arrest issued by the International Criminal Court?
I have no words.

 :o :o :o

It is the presidents of all invited countries who will shake hands with a war criminal, have nice conversations with him.
For what and for whom, in this case, is Ukraine fighting?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on August 15, 2023, 05:59
Ecological problems are a consequence of the existence of such fascist and totalitarian empires as Russia and China. Without eliminating the cause, it will not be possible to eliminate the consequences.
The EU countries relied on Russian gas and planned to improve their ecology. The war in Europe has led to the fact that the EU is no longer up to the environment. As I understand it, coal is also used to eliminate dependence on Russian gas.

Talking about the environment is certainly good, but not during the war. For some reason, these conversations remind me of ostriches with their heads stuck in the sand.

actually 2.8 planet earths would be needed to satisfy the needs of the entire Italian population and instead 5 planet earths would be needed if everyone lived as a US citizen.

Surely the United States is the worst country in the world for environmental impact and destructive lifestyle for the planet.

Not that I like this,just reporting the facts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 15, 2023, 07:30
Ecological problems are a consequence of the existence of such fascist and totalitarian empires as Russia and China. Without eliminating the cause, it will not be possible to eliminate the consequences.
The EU countries relied on Russian gas and planned to improve their ecology. The war in Europe has led to the fact that the EU is no longer up to the environment. As I understand it, coal is also used to eliminate dependence on Russian gas.

Talking about the environment is certainly good, but not during the war. For some reason, these conversations remind me of ostriches with their heads stuck in the sand.

actually 2.8 planet earths would be needed to satisfy the needs of the entire Italian population and instead 5 planet earths would be needed if everyone lived as a US citizen.

Surely the United States is the worst country in the world for environmental impact and destructive lifestyle for the planet.

Not that I like this,just reporting the facts.
I was in the USA, the cities have clean air. You have not seen what kind of air is in the cities of China or Russia.
Also, we are talking not only about emissions into the atmosphere, but also about environmental disasters that Russia commits.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 15, 2023, 07:39

I was in the USA, the cities have clean air. You have not seen what kind of air is in the cities of China or Russia.
Also, we are talking not only about emissions into the atmosphere, but also about environmental disasters that Russia commits.

Did you miss the bit where the West gets almost all it's manufacturing and raw material extraction done abroad? That also outsources the pollution. Same as sending all that “recycling” to be dumped abroad.

Also you have to look per capita, not total. So even given the above, CO2 emissions per capita China=7.44 USA=15.32. (Surprised to see UK=5.60)

This is irrelevant to the discussion, but Ukraine is also grotesquely polluted in places (prior to the war) and needed a lot of help cleaning up, which I had some faith would happen before the outbreak of war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 15, 2023, 09:07

I was in the USA, the cities have clean air. You have not seen what kind of air is in the cities of China or Russia.
Also, we are talking not only about emissions into the atmosphere, but also about environmental disasters that Russia commits.

Did you miss the bit where the West gets almost all it's manufacturing and raw material extraction done abroad? That also outsources the pollution. Same as sending all that “recycling” to be dumped abroad.

Also you have to look per capita, not total. So even given the above, CO2 emissions per capita China=7.44 USA=15.32. (Surprised to see UK=5.60)

This is irrelevant to the discussion, but Ukraine is also grotesquely polluted in places (prior to the war) and needed a lot of help cleaning up, which I had some faith would happen before the outbreak of war.
It is clear that the population of China is much larger than the population of the United States. But where does China spend money from outsourcing (as you say)? China produces many weapons and sponsors terrorist regimes in other countries. And if he spent this money on treatment facilities, technologies? The same applies to Russia.
Yes, Ukraine was polluted before the war, but Ukraine is not an empire and Ukraine did not spend money on weapons, war, sponsoring terrorism and fascism. You cannot compare Ukraine with Russia or China. Ukraine needs to be accepted into NATO, the EU, invest in it and Ukraine will be cleansed.
Therefore, I write that it is impossible to invest in communist, fascist and terrorist countries and empires. These empires must be liquidated. If Russia and China break up into many new countries, it will be possible to work with these countries, prohibit them from having weapons, require them to preserve the environment, and only after that give them money.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 15, 2023, 10:20

 I write that it is impossible to invest in communist, fascist and terrorist countries and empires. These empires must be liquidated. If Russia and China break up into many new countries, it will be possible to work with these countries, prohibit them from having weapons, require them to preserve the environment, and only after that give them money.

That movie...you will not watch.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 15, 2023, 12:17
Talking about the environment is certainly good, but not during the war. For some reason, these conversations remind me of ostriches with their heads stuck in the sand.

There is always war going on so then in fact we can never talk about the environment? I think there actually around 50 wars going on right now. But you don't seem to care about the other ones. You think the only war is in Ukraine. And you also forgot about the war in that same country before Russia invaded it at all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 15, 2023, 13:32
Numerous Russian tourists are stranded in Antalya, Turkey, because two Boeings were down at the same time, due to maintenance deficiencies caused by the sanctions. There is a certain satisfaction in the fact that the sanctions are partially effective.

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1691113365546881024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1691113365546881024%7Ctwgr%5Ec8ede7050ab1486353a40cbef787755b709a3f87%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.n-tv.de%2Fwirtschaft%2FHunderte-russische-Urlauber-sitzen-in-Antalya-fest-article24326535.html (https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1691113365546881024?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1691113365546881024%7Ctwgr%5Ec8ede7050ab1486353a40cbef787755b709a3f87%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.n-tv.de%2Fwirtschaft%2FHunderte-russische-Urlauber-sitzen-in-Antalya-fest-article24326535.html)

However, when I then look at the Twitter video from the airport, it has a very special perversity to see Russian vacationers in casual vacation attire with return travel problems.

As I have heard, in Sri Lanka and Thailand menus are increasingly translated into Russian.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 15, 2023, 14:27
SVH is right, there are many conflicts around the world.
What depresses me personally, because I know the country well, is the situation in Myanmar.
The military junta there is waging a brutal war against its own population, flying air strikes against villages, arbitrarily carrying out death sentences.
The whole thing seems to interest no one in the world.

If you can't stand brutal images, don't open the following link. Personally, it hit me very hard.

https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/myanmar-junta-troops-massacre-23-civilians-including-monks-in-shan-state-resistance.html (https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/burma/myanmar-junta-troops-massacre-23-civilians-including-monks-in-shan-state-resistance.html)

That China and Russia support the military is not a big surprise for me.
But also Singapore and Thailand support the dictatorship against the population with their own weapons and money. Thailand, on the other hand, is courting Russian tourists and investors. The Russia problem is clearly more complex.

Somehow the whole world is stupid.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 15, 2023, 15:05
The whole thing seems to interest no one in the world.
People only watch what the media shows them.
I already wrote about this earlier. There are a lot of wars and war crimes in Africa, and not only in Africa but also in Syria too. Russian soldiers are also killing people in Africa and Syria.
Ukraine is in Europe and an attack on Ukraine is a threat to the EU countries. Therefore, Ukraine is shown more on TV.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 15, 2023, 15:06
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en
Yes, this is a very good channel on Twitter. I recommend everyone who is against the Russians to subscribe.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 16, 2023, 03:04
An article about how Russia conducts war, from the Chechen conflict. Seems to fit perfectly with what's going on now. Very disturbing reading.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-sep-17-mn-22524-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-sep-17-mn-22524-story.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 16, 2023, 05:05
An article about how Russia conducts war, from the Chechen conflict. Seems to fit perfectly with what's going on now. Very disturbing reading.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-sep-17-mn-22524-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-sep-17-mn-22524-story.html)
+100
Russian orcs commit genocide in any country they are sent to. This is the Chechen conflict and Syria and Africa and Ukraine. The mistake of the US and the EU is that already in 1991 it was necessary to apply maximum sanctions against the Russians and liquidate the Russian empire. Impunity will lead to new crimes.

Ukrainian volunteers in the 90s helped the Chechens to liquidate the Russian occupiers.
Ukraine is not a small Ichkeria. For the second year in Ukraine, 500 Russian orcs are liquidated every day by the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 16, 2023, 08:00
The Russian orcs are planning a false flag operation. Now they are delivering explosives to the Kursk NPP. This nuclear power plant is located on the territory of the Russian Empire.
Probably the Russians want to blow up the Kursk nuclear power plant, blame the Armed Forces of Ukraine for this terrorist attack, and then the Russians will blow up the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant and also blame the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 16, 2023, 10:34
China and Russia are waging another Cold War — is the West up to the challenge?

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4152050-china-and-russia-are-waging-another-cold-war-when-will-we-act/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 17, 2023, 07:49
Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 17, 2023, 09:55
Today, the Armed Forces of Ukraine shot down two Russian Ka-52 "Alligator" helicopters.  8)

(https://news.liga.net/images/general/2023/01/18/thumbnail-tw-20230118182008-5431.jpg?v=1674059034?v=1674059034)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 17, 2023, 13:32
China and Russia are waging another Cold War — is the West up to the challenge?

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4152050-china-and-russia-are-waging-another-cold-war-when-will-we-act/
It is actually completely the other way around if you have paid any attention the last few years. But it's useless to try and convince you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 17, 2023, 14:17
Yes, it's completely the other way around, if you paid any attention for the past 2 years.

russia is waging a real war, not a cold one. >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 17, 2023, 15:01
Yes, it's completely the other way around, if you paid any attention for the past 2 years.

russia is waging a real war, not a cold one. >:(
Go back a little further Zero.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 17, 2023, 15:21
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/ (https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/)

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 17, 2023, 15:42
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/ (https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/)

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/)
You are so a mental case that it's almost funny. Glad for you that you have your friend Zero backing you all the time. But djeezz how do you come up with this stuff?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 17, 2023, 17:04
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/ (https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/)

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/)
You are so a mental case that it's almost funny. Glad for you that you have your friend Zero backing you all the time. But djeezz how do you come up with this stuff?

Yes. We went from 'making precursor chemicals' to 'killing people' in one big leap.

But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.

People have to be careful of taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5, because this is how fake conspiracies mislead others and cause a lot of problems.

I am not defending China, but we've missed an important step and that is the illicit drugs are made by Mexican drug cartels.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 17, 2023, 19:26
Yes, it's completely the other way around, if you paid any attention for the past 2 years.

russia is waging a real war, not a cold one. >:(
Go back a little further Zero.

A little further back when soviet russia colonised half of Europe?
Same difference!  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 18, 2023, 02:20
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/ (https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/)

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/)
You are so a mental case that it's almost funny. Glad for you that you have your friend Zero backing you all the time. But djeezz how do you come up with this stuff?

Yes. We went from 'making precursor chemicals' to 'killing people' in one big leap.

But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.

People have to be careful of taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5, because this is how fake conspiracies mislead others and cause a lot of problems.

I am not defending China, but we've missed an important step and that is the illicit drugs are made by Mexican drug cartels.
You need to re-read those two articles to which I gave links. China sends lethal drugs to America not only through Mexico, but also by regular mail, for example. And Mexico doesn't produce these deadly drugs, it helps China ship them to the US. It's like saying that Mexico is to blame for everything, although China produces drugs.
I see a lot of things not being said in the world media to people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 18, 2023, 06:51

The Chinese have done it my friend!

(https://static.independent.co.uk/2021/05/20/11/newFile-15.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 18, 2023, 08:03
But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.
This is a huge mistake of democratic countries. In 1970, there was no need to conclude trade agreements with communist and totalitarian China. There was no need to invest in China and place almost all production there. It's like placing production and investments in Russia. You shouldn't have listened to Kissinger. You don't have to listen to him now.
Democracy eventually raised a monster that claims world hegemony and kills the citizens of democratic countries. Yes, everyone loves cheap labor in China, where people work for a bowl of rice. But the time has come for retribution for a short-sighted policy, and therefore the third world war is underway.
More people die from Chinese drugs than the United States has lost people in all wars.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 18, 2023, 11:04
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/ (https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/)

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/)
You are so a mental case that it's almost funny. Glad for you that you have your friend Zero backing you all the time. But djeezz how do you come up with this stuff?

Yes. We went from 'making precursor chemicals' to 'killing people' in one big leap.

But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.

People have to be careful of taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5, because this is how fake conspiracies mislead others and cause a lot of problems.

I am not defending China, but we've missed an important step and that is the illicit drugs are made by Mexican drug cartels.
You need to re-read those two articles to which I gave links. China sends lethal drugs to America not only through Mexico, but also by regular mail, for example. And Mexico doesn't produce these deadly drugs, it helps China ship them to the US. It's like saying that Mexico is to blame for everything, although China produces drugs.
I see a lot of things not being said in the world media to people.

No, you need to re-read those articles, Stoker.

From the first paragraph of the Trone link:

U.S. authorities say that China remains the primary source of the precursor chemicals, which are then processed and manufactured into synthetic opioids by Mexican drug cartels to bring into the United States.



Do you know what precursor chemicals are, Stoke? 

From wiki:

Drug precursors, also referred to as precursor chemicals or simply precursors, are substances which are known to be used in the illegal manufacture of illicit drugs. Most precursors also have legitimate commercial uses and are legally used in a wide variety of industrial processes and consumer products, such as medicines, flavourings, and fragrances.[1]

International regulators of precursor chemicals consider it necessary to recognise and protect the legal trade of these chemicals, while at the same time preventing their diversion from such trade for use in the illegal manufacture of narcotic drugs and psychoactive substances. For example, phenylacetic acid is used legally in the production of penicillin, flavourings, perfume, and cleaning solutions, but it can also be used in the illegal manufacture of amphetamines and methamphetamine.
[/b]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precursor_chemicals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precursor_chemicals)




The problem is multi-fold, and coming from lots of sources. A link from your Washington Post article also explains how they are coming from US pharmaceutical companies and internet pharmacies (as an example):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-drugs-intended-for-patients-ended-up-in-the-hands-of-illegal-users-no-one-was-doing-their-job/2016/10/22/10e79396-30a7-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_39 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/how-drugs-intended-for-patients-ended-up-in-the-hands-of-illegal-users-no-one-was-doing-their-job/2016/10/22/10e79396-30a7-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_39)



The overall problem is very complex, and there are some illegal dealings coming from China, but its only a smaller part of the whole story, and not from China as a whole.

What I object to is your statement, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs, because it is wrong or exaggerated on many levels.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 18, 2023, 13:14
As I understand it, China is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans with lethal drugs. And the same drugs are also supplied to the EU countries.
China should be subject to the same sanctions as Russia and North Korea. I believe that this is already a war with the use of biological weapons of mass destruction. Why is there no appropriate response to China's attacks?

“99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China, and then it’s manufactured by two cartels, the Jalisco and Sinaloa Cartels, and they’re the ones that are bringing it across the border,”

https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/ (https://trone.house.gov/2023/01/08/chinas-role-in-illicit-fentanyl-running-rampant-on-us-streets/)

China’s Role in Illicit Fentanyl Running Rampant on US Streets

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
The powerful opioid is the leading cause of overdose deaths in America.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/)
You are so a mental case that it's almost funny. Glad for you that you have your friend Zero backing you all the time. But djeezz how do you come up with this stuff?

Yes. We went from 'making precursor chemicals' to 'killing people' in one big leap.

But the truth is nearly 8 out of 10 medications have some component made in China - including chemo drugs, birth control, antidepressants, over the counter pain pills and vitamins, and medicines to treat diabetes.

People have to be careful of taking 2 and 2 and coming up with 5, because this is how fake conspiracies mislead others and cause a lot of problems.

I am not defending China, but we've missed an important step and that is the illicit drugs are made by Mexican drug cartels.
You need to re-read those two articles to which I gave links. China sends lethal drugs to America not only through Mexico, but also by regular mail, for example. And Mexico doesn't produce these deadly drugs, it helps China ship them to the US. It's like saying that Mexico is to blame for everything, although China produces drugs.
I see a lot of things not being said in the world media to people.

No, you need to re-read those articles, Stoker.

From the first paragraph of the Trone link:

U.S. authorities say that China remains the primary source of the precursor chemicals, which are then processed and manufactured into synthetic opioids by Mexican drug cartels to bring into the United States.

Do you know what precursor chemicals are, Stoke? 
Let's continue. You are mixing everything together. I have not yet written about how lethal drugs are distributed inside the United States and how they are transferred to people. You do understand that there are lethal drugs from which people die, and there are non-lethal drugs that rarely die from.
I originally wrote about a lethal weapon called Fentanyl. Fentanyl is a precursor chemicals. It is clear that Fentanyl is not sold to people, it is mixed with other non-lethal drugs.
I quote the original text again: "99 percent of the fentanyl is coming from precursor drugs from China".

What's not clear? This is a war, the third world war. Fentanyl is a weapon that kills hundreds of thousands of citizens of democratic countries a year (figures are underestimated).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 18, 2023, 15:20
I don't even begin to understand this fentanyl diuscussion.
Fentanyl is at first a medical drug that is used as an artificial opioid for pain treatment and anesthesia. The active ingredient itself is not lethal, but the overdose. The same is true for barbiturates, alcohol, etc.

The problem in the US is homemade and not a planned Chinese attack on all democracies.

In 1996, Purdue Pharma introduced Oxycontin to the market and, through lobbying and aggressive advertising, succeeded in touting the prescription painkiller as highly effective but hardly addictive. As a result, American doctors prescribed the drug even for only minor pain, such as toothache.

A large number of patients thus became dependent on oxycodone and, due to a lack of health insurance, also suffered financial hardship. After a market had initially emerged in which doctors willingly prescribed Oxycontin in return for a "donation", and even pain clinics prescribed the drug excessively, a black market then also emerged with illegally produced Oxycodone.

The whole story is the worst example of pharmaceutical lobbying in the history of medicine.

Many addicts switched then to the less expensive opiate heroin and, in the meantime, to fentanyl.

Mexican drug cartels have quickly recognized the gap in the market and are producing drugs containing fentanyl with the help of cheap raw materials from China. It is obvious that China is not entirely unhappy with this situation - for example, China terminated its cooperation with the USA in the field of drug control after Nancy Pelosi's visit to Taiwan.

In my view, all this has nothing to do with your dramatic description of a third world war scenario.

The newspaper articles you linked are incomplete and, as always, were chosen to support your personal view - without being able to judge the content for yourself or even having a glimmer of an idea about the subject.

I myself regularly prescribe fentanyl, which is still made from Chinese raw materials. As far as I can tell, patients don't keel over in rows. It is just a question of how and with what kind of intent the "evil" Chinese raw materials are processed.

However, I agree that we should separate ourselves from Chinese dependence.




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 18, 2023, 16:26

However, I agree that we should separate ourselves from Chinese dependence.

I will not get involved in this drug discussion because I lack facts and background knowledge.

But as far as the medical drug supply is concerned, I agree with you one hundred percent! We have to get away from addictions. And not only in the pharmaceutical sector, but in an infinite number of other areas as well!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 19, 2023, 02:25
RalfLiebhold, I didn't know you were a certified doctor. Newspaper articles do not ban the use of Fentanyl in medicine.
Do you think the Washington Post is a tabloid newspaper? The press writes about daily mass deaths from Fentanyl.

Cause of death: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/dea-fentanyl-failure/?itid=mc_magnet-opioids_inline_collection_2 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/dea-fentanyl-failure/?itid=mc_magnet-opioids_inline_collection_2)

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/)

And as you yourself wrote, China stopped cooperating to fight fentanyl smuggling. So China considers fentanyl as its weapon against the USA and not only.

and there are a lot of such articles in the Washington Post. I also read that there are thousands of laboratories in China that produce this fentanyl.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 19, 2023, 02:42
Not to mention that the coronavirus was created in China, after which a lot of people died in the US and the EU. Perhaps this is how China planned to use this virus, because totalitarian and fascist countries do not feel sorry for their people. Or maybe China planned to release the coronavirus in the US and the EU with less losses for China. But in fact, many people in the US and the EU were killed by the coronovirus and the economies of democratic countries suffered huge losses. And immediately after that, Russia began the active phase of the war. These are not coincidences! This is war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 19, 2023, 05:49
RalfLiebhold, I didn't know you were a certified doctor. Newspaper articles do not ban the use of Fentanyl in medicine.
Do you think the Washington Post is a tabloid newspaper? The press writes about daily mass deaths from Fentanyl.

Cause of death: Washington faltered as fentanyl gripped America
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/dea-fentanyl-failure/?itid=mc_magnet-opioids_inline_collection_2 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/dea-fentanyl-failure/?itid=mc_magnet-opioids_inline_collection_2)

Why is fentanyl so dangerous?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/11/03/fentanyl-opioid-epidemic/)

And as you yourself wrote, China stopped cooperating to fight fentanyl smuggling. So China considers fentanyl as its weapon against the USA and not only.

and there are a lot of such articles in the Washington Post. I also read that there are thousands of laboratories in China that produce this fentanyl.

I had the feeling that the active ingredient fentanyl was being denounced here in principle and wanted primarily to explain the difference between medical use and drug abuse.

The interesting question is why there is this increasing drug problem in the USA, with fentanyl at the center of it.
The sole argument of cheap availability and then finding the culprit in China seems to me to be a bit short-sighted.
But for this discussion I really lack the necessary background knowledge.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 19, 2023, 09:18
The newspapers write that fentanyl and its analogues are very strong drugs, deadly. It's easy to mix things up wrong and people die. And if they write that 99% of fentanyl is produced by China, and if this is true, then all the blame lies with China.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 19, 2023, 15:24
The newspapers write that fentanyl and its analogues are very strong drugs, deadly. It's easy to mix things up wrong and people die. And if they write that 99% of fentanyl is produced by China, and if this is true, then all the blame lies with China.

Counter question: If the U.S. succeeded in stopping all fentanyl imports, from China or wherever - would the drug problem then be solved?

And again and again and again: Fentanyl itself is not lethal, but the abuse is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 19, 2023, 16:42
Not to mention that the coronavirus was created in China, after which a lot of people died in the US and the EU. Perhaps this is how China planned to use this virus, because totalitarian and fascist countries do not feel sorry for their people. Or maybe China planned to release the coronavirus in the US and the EU with less losses for China. But in fact, many people in the US and the EU were killed by the coronovirus and the economies of democratic countries suffered huge losses. And immediately after that, Russia began the active phase of the war. These are not coincidences! This is war.
You do have your tin foil hat on, don't you? Otherwise the russians and chinese will crawl into your brain :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on August 20, 2023, 01:38
You should look into your own country, because is just an USA problem. Not a conspiracy. And should face the problem, not leaving them die on the streets. It's bizarre and a third world picture.

This kind of drugs in many cases are given because you can't stay at home when you are ill.

In Europe you can't get fentanyl or anything like that, just when you are dying with pain. It's impossible to become a heavy addict for using prescriptions.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 02:33
The newspapers write that fentanyl and its analogues are very strong drugs, deadly. It's easy to mix things up wrong and people die. And if they write that 99% of fentanyl is produced by China, and if this is true, then all the blame lies with China.

Counter question: If the U.S. succeeded in stopping all fentanyl imports, from China or wherever - would the drug problem then be solved?

And again and again and again: Fentanyl itself is not lethal, but the abuse is.
The problem is not drug use. Problems in the huge mortality from drugs containing Fentanyl. You understand that drug cartels and drug dealers on the streets are not medical institutions that make certified drugs in laboratories.
People used drugs before, they were treated, but now it is the level of an epidemic. They write that more people will die from drugs containing Fentanyl than died from AIDS. Will die from drugs not bought in a pharmacy! And people of mobilization age are dying, i.e. young, future soldiers in case of war.
I do not write anywhere and no one writes that Fentanyl should be banned in medicine. China produces Fentanyl not for medicine, but in clandestine laboratories and smuggles it to the USA, incl. through Mexico. Further, either in the US or in Mexico, this Fentanyl is mixed with other drugs (which are much weaker) and sold to US citizens. This clandestine Fentanyl is already shipping to EU countries too, so the EU is next.
Of course, if you eliminate clandestine laboratories in China and stop the drug Fentanyl from getting into the US and EU, drug-related deaths will drop dramatically. This is what the washingtonpost writes about.
We are not talking about completely defeating the drug mafia, the newspapers write that China has begun to use drugs as a weapon against citizens of democratic countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 02:41
You should look into your own country, because is just an USA problem. Not a conspiracy. And should face the problem, not leaving them die on the streets. It's bizarre and a third world picture.

This kind of drugs in many cases are given because you can't stay at home when you are ill.

In Europe you can't get fentanyl or anything like that, just when you are dying with pain. It's impossible to become a heavy addict for using prescriptions.
You need to read those articles links to which I gave and similar articles. I nowhere write that Fentanyl for medical purposes is evil. This topic is about the drug mafia and China's use of Fentanyl as a weapon.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 04:41
China helping to arm Russia with helicopters, drones and metals.
Russian firms have received tens of thousands of Chinese shipments since the war in Ukraine began


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/19/china-helping-arm-russia-helicopters-drones-metals-xi-putin/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/19/china-helping-arm-russia-helicopters-drones-metals-xi-putin/)


I recommend everyone to read this article.
In order to defeat fascist russia, it is necessary to impose powerful sanctions against China.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 20, 2023, 06:02
(https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.pmnq5npzhMq4ejXCi23MJQHaHa&pid=Api&P=0&h=180)

Oh no, Stoker's on another conspiracy bender. ;D  ::)

Stoke, you do realize that WWIII will not be about how many foot soldiers a country has, don't you?

And covid didn't kill off young, healthy people - and the number of deaths from Fentanyl is just a fraction of the total USA population, anyway.

Have you thought of writing scripts for horror or armageddon movies as a new pastime?  ;) Just kidding, at least this is entertaining if somewhat frustrating to read.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on August 20, 2023, 06:09
You should look into your own country, because is just an USA problem. Not a conspiracy. And should face the problem, not leaving them die on the streets. It's bizarre and a third world picture.

This kind of drugs in many cases are given because you can't stay at home when you are ill.

In Europe you can't get fentanyl or anything like that, just when you are dying with pain. It's impossible to become a heavy addict for using prescriptions.
You need to read those articles links to which I gave and similar articles. I nowhere write that Fentanyl for medical purposes is evil. This topic is about the drug mafia and China's use of Fentanyl as a weapon.

Massive drug problems, in the USA, are not from illegal drugs. They are from prescriptions and are not new. You have that problem for decades.

When the whole country becomes addict, the problem are not mafias o China.

We have drug trafficking too, all countries have, but our streets don't look like a zombie war zone.

It's just your problem, It's massive and it's scaring for you.

But can't happen in the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 06:38
trabuco, as you may have noticed, I provided links to articles in the washingtonpost. And it’s up to everyone how to understand what is written there. I'm not a doctor here. And I am not a US citizen and do not live in the US.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 06:46
(https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.pmnq5npzhMq4ejXCi23MJQHaHa&pid=Api&P=0&h=180)

Oh no, Stoker's on another conspiracy bender. ;D  ::)

Stoke, you do realize that WWIII will not be about how many foot soldiers a country has, don't you?

And covid didn't kill off young, healthy people - and the number of deaths from Fentanyl is just a fraction of the total USA population, anyway.

Have you thought of writing scripts for horror or armageddon movies as a new pastime?  ;) Just kidding, at least this is entertaining if somewhat frustrating to read.
WWIII has been going on for 10 years now. I know that you personally have not noticed it yet. Did you think that WWIII was just the use of nuclear weapons? You are greatly mistaken. Who copied such thoughts into your head at all?
WWIII is the application of sanctions, the use of bacteriological weapons (covid 19) and the use of Fentanyl, and the attack on Ukraine and much more we will see. Will we see the use of nuclear weapons?, I don't know.
Of course, not all citizens of democratic countries have died from covid 19, and not all of them die from Fentanyl either. But if the population of China is 1.5 billion people, then the population of the United States is 300 million people. There have been many deaths from covid 19 in the EU and the US, but the economies of these countries have also been hit very hard. Killing the US and EU economy is also China's goal. And in vain you think that the number of potential soldiers does not matter. In Ukraine, the number of soldiers is of great importance. And if the Russians begin to advance on the eastern bloc of NATO, the number of soldiers will also be of great importance. I'm not talking about if China starts to attack different countries.
And even when nuclear weapons are used, the number of soldiers also matters, because. nuclear weapons are intended more for the destruction of civilians. Using nuclear weapons against the enemy army is not very effective, because the soldiers maneuver and have protection against radiation.
I'm not a director or a screenwriter, I'm discussing WWIII in this thread, which has been going on for a long time.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 06:52
(https://r6z4d5g2.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/straus_golovu-v-pesok.jpg)

Annie, the photo shows your position in life. Get your head out of the sand faster. Of course, I understand that Australia is far from Ukraine, but Australia is not far from China.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 07:04
Someone, finally explain to Annie from Australia that WWIII is not only and not necessarily the use of nuclear weapons.
 :'( :'( :'(

My English is not enough.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 20, 2023, 07:19
Someone, finally explain to Annie from Australia that WWIII is not only and not necessarily the use of nuclear weapons.
 :'( :'( :'(

My English is not enough.

You are jumping to conclusions again, Stoke. You said that, I didn't. I didn't even mention nuclear weapons.



I am starting to wonder if its an English translation problem. You read something and then somehow change it to something else in your mind. This is what happens to a lot of your posts, or interpretations of what you read in newspaper articles.

If this is true, then I understand.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 07:31
(PS: I thought you would already know that its all about superior military intelligence, weaponry and a whole lot more. I didn't think I would have to spell it out to you.)
Yes, I didn't understand what you wrote. English is not my native language.
You wrote that the number of soldiers does not matter. This is not a correct statement.
Do you think that China has no intelligence, no satellites, no weapons? Do you have any idea what 1.5 billion people are? Yes, no weapons will help here :), even if these people are not armed at all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 07:33
This is what happens to a lot of your posts, or interpretations of what you read in newspaper articles.
If you understood those articles that I cited here differently than I did, I am ready to read your opinion. Link to the article and write.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 20, 2023, 07:56
(PS: I thought you would already know that its all about superior military intelligence, weaponry and a whole lot more. I didn't think I would have to spell it out to you.)
Yes, I didn't understand what you wrote. English is not my native language.
You wrote that the number of soldiers does not matter. This is not a correct statement.
Do you think that China has no intelligence, no satellites, no weapons? Do you have any idea what 1.5 billion people are? Yes, no weapons will help here :), even if these people are not armed at all.

Just so you understand my background: my father-in-law is a military history buff and is known to have one of the largest private military book collections in our State. You have no idea how big it is. You would be shocked if you saw all the books. Most people are when they walk into their house. It drives my Mother-in-law crazy, because his collection has spilled out of his library, into the spare rooms, the hallways, bookshelves everywhere! He was born in England during the Battle of Britain, and I always think that somehow this has made him overly fascinated with the subject.

I've told Pete about it, but not sure whether I told Mihai who is a military buff himself.

This interest has also rubbed off on my husband, so I am surrounded by all this military talk/knowledge. My husband's latest hobby is WWII planes and tanks. And its not just 20th century wars that they know about, it all, anywhere and anything historic. Which is ironic, because I am anti-war myself.

I still think you go too far with your theories and are conspiratorial - but this is what this thread is about: different opinions.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 08:23
 ;D
Annie, talk to your husband and father-in-law and they will tell you the same as I write.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 20, 2023, 09:10
;D
Annie, talk to your husband and father-in-law and they will tell you the same as I write.  ;)

OK, I did - and here is the answer:

USA & NATO combined have the greatest military strength in the world today.

Russia is not a threat. They have the most nukes - but most of them are 20 years old and probably more of a threat to themselves.

Would China enter into a war with America? Their answer: Why? What would China have to gain? They (and Japan) already own most of USA debt (China owns $860 billion) anyway. Also China's economy is struggling with 25% unemployment and their youth unemployment is so bad they have stopped reporting it.

Number of foot soldiers is not important as it was in the 20th century wars.

America's greatest threat is coming from itself, its internal politics, inability of political parties to agree on anything, 'civil war' infighting, and debt is more of a risk than China.

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 20, 2023, 09:57
USA & NATO combined have the greatest military strength in the world today.
Logically. If not for their ostrich policy, it would be generally cool.

Russia is not a threat. They have the most nukes - but most of them are 20 years old and probably more of a threat to themselves.
Then let's get faster F16 fighters and long-range missiles to Ukraine. What are you afraid of?

Would China enter into a war with America? Their answer: Why? What would China have to gain? They (and Japan) already own most of USA debt (China owns $860 billion) anyway. Also China's economy is struggling with 25% unemployment and their youth unemployment is so bad they have stopped reporting it.
It depends on what is considered a war. The history books have not yet written what I wrote on the last 2-3 pages.
China is striving for world domination, for the occupation of Taiwan. Why does China support the Russians. It is not necessary to use rockets, shells, tanks or nuclear weapons to kill Europeans and Americans and their economies. I have already written about covid-19, about drugs.
The supply of weapons and components by China to Russia is already participation in the war.
Of course, right now, China will not directly engage in military clashes with the United States, China is not yet ready for this. But China is doing everything to weaken the US, the EU, and there is already a lot of talk about the possibility of military clashes in a few years.
At the moment, China, with the help of Russia, is attacking the world order.

Number of foot soldiers is not important as it was in the 20th century wars.
It probably depends on how many soldiers and what weapons are used in the war. In the case of Ukraine, the number of soldiers matters.

America's greatest threat is coming from itself, its internal politics, inability of political parties to agree on anything, 'civil war' infighting, and debt is more of a risk than China.
:-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on August 21, 2023, 01:36
A third world war can not happen because the USA now is not able to get profit without consecuences.

It's so simple.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 21, 2023, 04:09
Biden did allow the F16 to be transferred to Ukraine. Time is greatly lost, and all this little by little. However, I will let you know.

Denmark to supply Ukraine with 19 F-16 fighter jets
(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/3/7/37f39cc-----------690.avif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on August 21, 2023, 05:05
It's stupid.

Ukraine doesn't know how to use or repare them. Are not toys, hard to handle.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 21, 2023, 10:29
It's stupid.

Ukraine doesn't know how to use or repare them. Are not toys, hard to handle.

No. It's not. Not at all. It's the right thing to do.

A dedicated training center for Ukrainian pilots is being set up, as we speak, at the Borcea airforce base in Romania.

This type of training takes time. The F16s and the pilots will only be ready to defend Ukraine from the imperialist russian invasion from 2024 onwards.

By all accounts this is late, but better late than never.

Ukrainian F-16 pilots will be trained by the private company Draken International.

The company published a recruitment ad stating that the military instructors would work at the Borcea/Feteşti military base in Romania.

The company is also recruiting other categories of personnel for the pilot training center, including technicians, electricians, and other avionics specialists. Applicants must have at least five years of experience operating F-16 aircraft. Hired people will stay in Romania for three to 19 months.

Initially, training will consist of testing and selection of Ukrainian personnel, language lessons, and later theoretical and practical training will be conducted. The program aims for Ukrainian pilots to acquire basic skills in operating and maintaining F-16 aircraft
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 21, 2023, 10:54
This is Sophia.

She was murdered at the age of 6 by a russian missile strike in Chernihiv. Meanwhile, 64 thousand russians on Telegram laugh at her:
"Chernihiv. Selling child sandals. Unworn".

This is a great reminder that it's not just putin and the "poor mobilized."  :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 21, 2023, 11:16
This has to go viral.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 21, 2023, 11:22
It's stupid.

Ukraine doesn't know how to use or repare them. Are not toys, hard to handle.

Absolutely. Thats why they got middle finger for NATO membership and they are basically on their own with arm supply which has to be used by someone while the population is drastically declining.

They lost the nation, huge part of population, territory for an actor playing a puppet for western imperialist risking a war with same type of people on their east side. Worst leader in history of mankind.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 21, 2023, 11:32
Worst leader in history of mankind.

Yeah... it makes sense, especially when compared with other leaders in history of mankind, like stalin, hitler, pol pot, mao, ceauşescu, milošević, kim jong un, putin...  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 21, 2023, 11:44
This has to go viral.  ;D

Yes indeed.
The post had been viewed > 127,000 times, suggesting that around half of viewers responded with the laughing react.

.... plus one laughing react from you.  :'(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 21, 2023, 11:47
This has to go viral.  ;D

Yes indeed.
The post had been viewed > 127,000 times, suggesting that around half of viewers responded with the laughing react.

.... plus one laughing react from you.  :'(

That one was for posts above and you know it  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 21, 2023, 11:49
Worst leader in history of mankind.

Yeah... it makes sense, especially when compared with other leaders in history of mankind, like stalin, hitler, pol pot, mao, ceauşescu, milošević, kim jong un, putin...  ::)

Same league. Only their goals were criminal benefits for their own countries and he sold his own people for benefits of someone else. That makes him worst  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 21, 2023, 12:00
Worst leader in history of mankind.

Yeah... it makes sense, especially when compared with other leaders in history of mankind, like stalin, hitler, pol pot, mao, ceauşescu, milošević, kim jong un, putin...  ::)

Same league. Only their goals were criminal benefits for their own countries and he sold his own people for benefits of someone else. That makes him worst  ;)

Yeah, yeah, yeah... it makes perfect sense!
He should rather sell his people to putin, indeed!
That will make him the best leader in history of mankind.
I know, I know.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 21, 2023, 12:47
It's stupid.

Ukraine doesn't know how to use or repare them. Are not toys, hard to handle.

No. It's not. Not at all. It's the right thing to do.

A dedicated training center for Ukrainian pilots is being set up, as we speak, at the Borcea airforce base in Romania.

This type of training takes time. The F16s and the pilots will only be ready to defend Ukraine from the imperialist russian invasion from 2024 onwards.

By all accounts this is late, but better late than never.

Ukrainian F-16 pilots will be trained by the private company Draken International.

The company published a recruitment ad stating that the military instructors would work at the Borcea/Feteşti military base in Romania.

The company is also recruiting other categories of personnel for the pilot training center, including technicians, electricians, and other avionics specialists. Applicants must have at least five years of experience operating F-16 aircraft. Hired people will stay in Romania for three to 19 months.

Initially, training will consist of testing and selection of Ukrainian personnel, language lessons, and later theoretical and practical training will be conducted. The program aims for Ukrainian pilots to acquire basic skills in operating and maintaining F-16 aircraft

And you think giving Ukraine F16's will not escalate . out if it? Thank god that Denmark and Holland will take their time to do so. And hopefully peace negotations will already be on it's way before the actual delivery. Which is also the only sensible thing to do then to continue this war with it's losses it causes on both sides. Both are wrong. Coming to an agreement is really the only way.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 21, 2023, 13:19
There are a lot of Russian trolls in the topic today.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 21, 2023, 13:27
It's stupid.

Ukraine doesn't know how to use or repare them. Are not toys, hard to handle.

No. It's not. Not at all. It's the right thing to do.

A dedicated training center for Ukrainian pilots is being set up, as we speak, at the Borcea airforce base in Romania.

This type of training takes time. The F16s and the pilots will only be ready to defend Ukraine from the imperialist russian invasion from 2024 onwards.

By all accounts this is late, but better late than never.

Ukrainian F-16 pilots will be trained by the private company Draken International.

The company published a recruitment ad stating that the military instructors would work at the Borcea/Feteşti military base in Romania.

The company is also recruiting other categories of personnel for the pilot training center, including technicians, electricians, and other avionics specialists. Applicants must have at least five years of experience operating F-16 aircraft. Hired people will stay in Romania for three to 19 months.

Initially, training will consist of testing and selection of Ukrainian personnel, language lessons, and later theoretical and practical training will be conducted. The program aims for Ukrainian pilots to acquire basic skills in operating and maintaining F-16 aircraft

And you think giving Ukraine F16's will not escalate . out if it? Thank god that Denmark and Holland will take their time to do so. And hopefully peace negotations will already be on it's way before the actual delivery. Which is also the only sensible thing to do then to continue this war with it's losses it causes on both sides. Both are wrong. Coming to an agreement is really the only way.

Peace is straightforward: total russia withdrawal within its internationaly recognized borders.
Then compensations for the all the war crimes (for Sophia, above, inclusive) and destruction.This is what should be negotiated.

Peace only depends on putin's ego. It's 100% within his power to make peace.

And btw, an early NATO enforced no-fly zone above Ukraine would have prevented all this russian abomination from happening.

But Neville Chamberlain type of appeasers like Obama, Macron (and Schulz up to a certain point) had to learn the hard way that you can't appease the likes of putin. This type is only seeing goodwill as weakness and become even more emboldened, with their imperialistic ambitions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 21, 2023, 13:39
The transfer of F16 to Ukraine is accompanied by the howl of Russian trolls, a common occurrence. They are now howling on all forums, channels and in all social networks.
However, slowly but surely, a coalition is being formed to transfer F16 to Ukraine. Today Zelenskyy agreed on 42 F16, but I think in the end Ukraine will receive 100-200 F16 fighters.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 21, 2023, 13:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah... it makes perfect sense!
He should rather sell his people to putin, indeed!
That will make him the best leader in history of mankind.
I know, I know.

He should have just pretended he is Switzerland and stopped acting as a imperialists puppet. Now he destroyed all of his country and pulled his own people to misery for decades to come and the west showed him the middle finger to avoid any direct conflict with Russia. 

He also lost nice part of the territory for good and there are way more chances he will loose more than to regain anything lost.

Now he even started to get signal that he should accept the territory loss directly from his NATO friends.

Everything else is fairy-tale which is melting day by day even in the words of western media and politicians which were pretending to support him most. 

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 21, 2023, 14:08
It's stupid.

Ukraine doesn't know how to use or repare them. Are not toys, hard to handle.

No. It's not. Not at all. It's the right thing to do.

A dedicated training center for Ukrainian pilots is being set up, as we speak, at the Borcea airforce base in Romania.

This type of training takes time. The F16s and the pilots will only be ready to defend Ukraine from the imperialist russian invasion from 2024 onwards.

By all accounts this is late, but better late than never.

Ukrainian F-16 pilots will be trained by the private company Draken International.

The company published a recruitment ad stating that the military instructors would work at the Borcea/Feteşti military base in Romania.

The company is also recruiting other categories of personnel for the pilot training center, including technicians, electricians, and other avionics specialists. Applicants must have at least five years of experience operating F-16 aircraft. Hired people will stay in Romania for three to 19 months.

Initially, training will consist of testing and selection of Ukrainian personnel, language lessons, and later theoretical and practical training will be conducted. The program aims for Ukrainian pilots to acquire basic skills in operating and maintaining F-16 aircraft

And you think giving Ukraine F16's will not escalate . out if it? Thank god that Denmark and Holland will take their time to do so. And hopefully peace negotations will already be on it's way before the actual delivery. Which is also the only sensible thing to do then to continue this war with it's losses it causes on both sides. Both are wrong. Coming to an agreement is really the only way.

Peace is straightforward: total russia withdrawal within its internationaly recognized borders.
Then compensations for the all the war crimes (for Sophia, above, inclusive) and destruction.This is what should be negotiated.

Peace only depends on putin's ego. It's 100% within his power to make peace.

And btw, an early NATO enforced no-fly zone above Ukraine would have prevented all this russian abomination from happening.

But Neville Chamberlain type of appeasers like Obama, Macron (and Schulz up to a certain point) had to learn the hard way that you can't appease the likes of putin. This type is only seeing goodwill as weakness and become even more emboldened, with their imperialistic ambitions.


There is no similarity in Hitler vs Putin (except for their egos maybe). There is no similarity between this war and WWII.

You still seem to forget. There is not one people in Ukraine, never was. There was a coup by one party and there was a civil war between two different thinking groups of people in one country. You want to give it all to one party (which you favour) and you are not considering at all the will of the other group.
It would be better if both groups got what they want and that is sovereignty. Where exactly to draw the line is something to negotiate on the peace table. We did it in Yougoslavia. Different people, all have their own country now. Same should apply here.
Every war ends with talks. No war has ever ended with everybody dead on one side. It's not appeasement, it is common sense and the logical thing to do.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 21, 2023, 14:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah... it makes perfect sense!
He should rather sell his people to putin, indeed!
That will make him the best leader in history of mankind.
I know, I know.

He should have just pretended he is Switzerland

"Pretended" is a key word here.
putin is evil, but not stupid.
Don't you think he would see through, when someone is "pretending"?

Even if non-pretending, real Switzerland would border russia, putin would engulf it without blinking and/or install a puppet regime. And all this in spite of its neutrality.
We have seen this scenario already happening, under our eyes, in Moldova, which has its neutrality specified in the constitution. And yet, russia occupies a big chunk of Moldova, and until very recently, putin had his puppets and henchmen controlling the country.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 21, 2023, 14:29

There is no similarity in Hitler vs Putin (except for their egos maybe). There is no similarity between this war and WWII.

You still seem to forget. There is not one people in Ukraine, never was. There was a coup by one party and there was a civil war between two different thinking groups of people in one country. You want to give it all to one party (which you favour) and you are not considering at all the will of the other group.
It would be better if both groups got what they want and that is sovereignty. Where exactly to draw the line is something to negotiate on the peace table. We did it in Yougoslavia. Different people, all have their own country now. Same should apply here.
Every war ends with talks. No war has ever ended with everybody dead on one side. It's not appeasement, it is common sense and the logical thing to do.

Ooohh, there are so many similarities, they look like soul twins. Also both look like soul twins with stalin.
And there is no difference in the attrocities they have caused.

Yes, obviously there are many ethnicities in Ukraine, like in most, if not all European countries, russia inclusive.
It was not a coup but a revolt, a demonstration strong enough to determine putin's puppet to flee to russia.

Besides, there are numerous cases in other countries when those in power resigned under pressure from the masses, none of those being qualified as a coup.

It was not a civil war, but a real war triggered by putin, when his puppets were removed from power. His army of little-green-men with no insignia, crossing the border in Ukraine, is well documented.
Remember who downed the Dutch civilian airplane?

Yes, war should end with talks. Talks about how much compensation russia must pay for its attrocities.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 21, 2023, 14:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah... it makes perfect sense!
He should rather sell his people to putin, indeed!
That will make him the best leader in history of mankind.
I know, I know.

He should have just pretended he is Switzerland and stopped acting as a imperialists puppet. Now he destroyed all of his country and pulled his own people to misery for decades to come and the west showed him the middle finger to avoid any direct conflict with Russia. 

He also lost nice part of the territory for good and there are way more chances he will loose more than to regain anything lost.

Now he even started to get signal that he should accept the territory loss directly from his NATO friends.

Everything else is fairy-tale which is melting day by day even in the words of western media and politicians which were pretending to support him most.

There is a crucial difference. No neighbor of Switzerland, no Italian, no French, no German and no Austrian, steals Swiss children to bring them to their own country. And no Swiss neighbor claims that the Swiss are *. No Italian neighbor claims that Switzerland once belonged to the former Roman Empire and thus to Italy. No neighbor imposes its culture, language or cultural identity on Switzerland. And above all: no neighbor interferes in Switzerland's decisions about which alliance Switzerland should join - be it military, be it economic or whatever.

Heeding your "advice" would have achieved nothing. Putin wants Russia to be the size of the former tsarist empire. No matter how Ukraine would have behaved.

And if your way of thinking were to be believed, then the states of Eastern Europe, then Central Europe and then Western Europe would be next on Putin's agenda. Because he lacks the buffer to NATO. Until now, that buffer has been Ukraine. If it became Russian, he would be even closer to NATO and would have to create a buffer again. And so on...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 21, 2023, 14:52
It's stupid.

Ukraine doesn't know how to use or repare them. Are not toys, hard to handle.

No. It's not. Not at all. It's the right thing to do.

A dedicated training center for Ukrainian pilots is being set up, as we speak, at the Borcea airforce base in Romania.

This type of training takes time. The F16s and the pilots will only be ready to defend Ukraine from the imperialist russian invasion from 2024 onwards.

By all accounts this is late, but better late than never.

Ukrainian F-16 pilots will be trained by the private company Draken International.

The company published a recruitment ad stating that the military instructors would work at the Borcea/Feteşti military base in Romania.

The company is also recruiting other categories of personnel for the pilot training center, including technicians, electricians, and other avionics specialists. Applicants must have at least five years of experience operating F-16 aircraft. Hired people will stay in Romania for three to 19 months.

Initially, training will consist of testing and selection of Ukrainian personnel, language lessons, and later theoretical and practical training will be conducted. The program aims for Ukrainian pilots to acquire basic skills in operating and maintaining F-16 aircraft

And you think giving Ukraine F16's will not escalate . out if it? Thank god that Denmark and Holland will take their time to do so. And hopefully peace negotations will already be on it's way before the actual delivery. Which is also the only sensible thing to do then to continue this war with it's losses it causes on both sides. Both are wrong. Coming to an agreement is really the only way.

Peace is straightforward: total russia withdrawal within its internationaly recognized borders.
Then compensations for the all the war crimes (for Sophia, above, inclusive) and destruction.This is what should be negotiated.

Peace only depends on putin's ego. It's 100% within his power to make peace.

And btw, an early NATO enforced no-fly zone above Ukraine would have prevented all this russian abomination from happening.

But Neville Chamberlain type of appeasers like Obama, Macron (and Schulz up to a certain point) had to learn the hard way that you can't appease the likes of putin. This type is only seeing goodwill as weakness and become even more emboldened, with their imperialistic ambitions.


There is no similarity in Hitler vs Putin (except for their egos maybe). There is no similarity between this war and WWII.

You still seem to forget. There is not one people in Ukraine, never was. There was a coup by one party and there was a civil war between two different thinking groups of people in one country. You want to give it all to one party (which you favour) and you are not considering at all the will of the other group.
It would be better if both groups got what they want and that is sovereignty. Where exactly to draw the line is something to negotiate on the peace table. We did it in Yougoslavia. Different people, all have their own country now. Same should apply here.
Every war ends with talks. No war has ever ended with everybody dead on one side. It's not appeasement, it is common sense and the logical thing to do.

Even in Russia, the former Soviet Union, the Tsarist Empire, etc., there never was "one people."
The tensions between different religions, cultures, and ethnicities are as old as Russia itself (and so are so many other countries).

This war, which Russia calls a military operation, will not achieve in the medium or long term what Putin hopes for - a great Russian empire within the borders of yesteryear (whatever he may have in mind). The rifts have now become even deeper and - whatever the outcome - it will take decades, if not centuries, for "peace" to prevail among these different ethnic groups. He has lost the Ukrainians as a part of Russia, as he wishes, forever - I am sure of that. Coexistence under the umbrella of Russia is unthinkable in my view. He knows that and believes that he can re-educate the Ukrainian children so that they think Russian. But the day is coming when these children will no longer be taught to read only Russian history books and will form their own opinion. Even he cannot prevent that.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 21, 2023, 15:14
Does Elon Musk work for putin?  >:(

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule (https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/28/elon-musks-shadow-rule)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 21, 2023, 15:25
Ethnic groups:
78% Ukrainians
17% Russians
4.9% other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine


Ukraine is not a russian empire, Ukraine is not a prison of nations, unlike russia. Ukraine is a unitary state. Russians in Ukraine are a national minority. There is no special people of Donbass, there are only Ukrainians, everything else is a lie and propaganda of Russian trolls.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 21, 2023, 17:19

There is a crucial difference. No neighbor of Switzerland, no Italian, no French, no German and no Austrian, steals Swiss children to bring them to their own country. And no Swiss neighbor claims that the Swiss are *. No Italian neighbor claims that Switzerland once belonged to the former Roman Empire and thus to Italy. No neighbor imposes its culture, language or cultural identity on Switzerland. And above all: no neighbor interferes in Switzerland's decisions about which alliance Switzerland should join - be it military, be it economic or whatever.

Heeding your "advice" would have achieved nothing. Putin wants Russia to be the size of the former tsarist empire. No matter how Ukraine would have behaved.

And if your way of thinking were to be believed, then the states of Eastern Europe, then Central Europe and then Western Europe would be next on Putin's agenda. Because he lacks the buffer to NATO. Until now, that buffer has been Ukraine. If it became Russian, he would be even closer to NATO and would have to create a buffer again. And so on...

Lets start with the end...and that's pure populism. Russia doesn't have offensive military strength, nor resources nor nearly enough personnel to even think to invade anyone cause Putin would end up like Hitler. Secondly during his career most of that Europe was not in NATO and there wasn't slightest chance of that scenario. And third, planning to bring nuclear weapons and building military bases under direct US control pointing at Russia directly on her borders is a huge factor and don't pretend you don't see this is not a main reason for what is happening. At the end, you are writing like Putin had an agenda of occupying whole Europe. He said multiple times don't spread NATO to their borders and anyone with his power would do the same starting from US if he made an alliance with Mexico lets say and planned to put his missiles there, you would have a war. As simple as that.

Zielinski is no less of a puppet than Yanukovych and he knew exactly the risks he is taking and he didn't give a f..k about his people and his country benefits, he also played with fire by allowing what was happening to Russian minority in his country ( which if btw. Swiss people would start to do to German, Italian or French minorities that would end up with some neighbor problems for sure) 

And back to the beginning, Italia, Gemany, France or Austria don't have their neighbors missiles pointed at them despite the facts that they invaded every single country around them and some of them not so long ago. Not to even mention that some of them have pretty strong political currents that are openly promoting revision of historical maps and have pretty strong pretensions on foreign territories with influence of ideas of a guy with little square mustaches.

Back on Zielinski, he knew pretty well that the geographic position of his country requires a bit more wisdom than if he was on the other side of Europe, and Im also pretty sure he was not stupid, he knew exacly what could happen and he didn't care about his people but about being a loyal servant of masters that are throwing him crumbs at the moment but he can not say it to loud because they shut him up sooo quickly.

The first low signal he got from NATO recently to think about giving up parts of his territory speaks enough. The fact that Jenssen apologized, said it was a mistake but that even so he wouldn't rule out the idea so quickly, clearly speaks about whats going on behind the closed doors. If someone thinks something like that is a mistake coming from that level where everything is checked 100 times before it hits the public, well that one deserves a golden squirrel naivety reward.
 



 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 22, 2023, 03:09
Recently, the Armed Forces of Ukraine liquidated the strategic Russian bomber Tu-22M3.  ;D 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwSbkNjyU8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTwSbkNjyU8)

It burns well.  ;D ;D ;D

According to Ukrainian intelligence, 2 bombers were completely destroyed and 2 more were damaged. Total 4.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 22, 2023, 03:34
Russian and Belarusian stockers are also using Georgia and Moldova to avoid sanctions. In fact, they live in Russia, pay taxes in Russia, support fascist russia, but they receive money from the USA through Georgia or Moldova. To do this, as I understand it, the Russians open accounts in the banks of these countries, then go to the drains through VPN (mow down under Moldovans, Georgians). Probably in the profiles of their accounts in stock agencies they write that they live in these countries.
Why does Georgia and Moldova open bank accounts for Russians at all?
I also think that stock agencies should ban all Russians and Belarusians if they do not have a refugee certificate in another country.

Ban all rashists!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 22, 2023, 03:41
I wrote a letter to the stock agencies, told them to ban all Russian and Belarusian authors who do not have refugee status. Stock agency administration is generally not against such actions, but is still thinking about it. If they receive many such letters, it is possible to achieve a ban on the Russians and stop the flow of foreign currency to fascist russia and belarus. Write to stock agencies, demand a ban on Russians!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 22, 2023, 07:59
I wrote a letter to the stock agencies, told them to ban all Russian and Belarusian authors who do not have refugee status. Stock agency administration is generally not against such actions, but is still thinking about it. If they receive many such letters, it is possible to achieve a ban on the Russians and stop the flow of foreign currency to fascist russia and belarus. Write to stock agencies, demand a ban on Russians!
According to the presidential decree (08.08.2023 № 585), Russia stops the agreement to avoid double coverage with unfriendly countries. Accordingly, stockers who paid only 6% to the local budget will now pay an additional 30% to the US budget.

Therefore, you should pray for Russian stockers who "fill the US budget", which in turn feeds Ukrainian government. Instead, you write denunciations on ordinary people according to their nationality, as the followers of the nazists always did.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 22, 2023, 09:07
ordinary people
Whose Crimea?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 22, 2023, 09:28
Whose Crimea?
Do you have a special button on your keyboard with this phrase or is it in your head? Move to live in the Crimea and it will be yours. Just like now it belongs to its inhabitants.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 22, 2023, 13:36
Whose Crimea?
Do you have a special button on your keyboard with this phrase or is it in your head? Move to live in the Crimea and it will be yours. Just like now it belongs to its inhabitants.
Yes, that's exactly what Russian rashists and Naz.is do. Russians come in tanks to the territory of Ukraine and say that the Ukrainian land is russia. Go on, write more.
You are not an ordinary peaceful person, you are a rashist, which is equal to a Nazi. And this follows from your answer to the question posed to you. That is why the US and EU countries have applied sanctions to people like you. And you're like a worm trying to slip away. But there are many such Russian worms, 250 thousand like you are already fertilizing the Ukrainian land.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on August 22, 2023, 14:21
Whose Crimea?
Do you have a special button on your keyboard with this phrase or is it in your head? Move to live in the Crimea and it will be yours. Just like now it belongs to its inhabitants.
Yes, that's exactly what Russian rashists and Naz.is do. Russians come in tanks to the territory of Ukraine and say that the Ukrainian land is russia. Go on, write more.
You are not an ordinary peaceful person, you are a rashist, which is equal to a Nazi. And this follows from your answer to the question posed to you. That is why the US and EU countries have applied sanctions to people like you. And you're like a worm trying to slip away. But there are many such Russian worms, 250 thousand like you are already fertilizing the Ukrainian land.

Stoker, you should put the brakes on your personal attacks against others in the forum, otherwise your mouthpiece could dry up here.
 
Zastavkin has made his position against the war known here several times. There is nothing reprehensible about his last postings either.
Stocker now have to tax 30% of their income in advance abroad because of Putin's decree, instead of the only 6% before in Russia - if I understood correctly.

Lizard's statements are of course a different matter - here you have to differentiate, a quality that you seem to have lost.
You are completely blinded by hatred and that makes your contributions to a large extent untrustworthy and you a bad discussion partner.

I'm sure that my words will bounce off your thick board in front of your head and I'm already waiting for your ostrich picture or some nastiness against Germany.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 22, 2023, 15:34

There is a crucial difference. No neighbor of Switzerland, no Italian, no French, no German and no Austrian, steals Swiss children to bring them to their own country. And no Swiss neighbor claims that the Swiss are *. No Italian neighbor claims that Switzerland once belonged to the former Roman Empire and thus to Italy. No neighbor imposes its culture, language or cultural identity on Switzerland. And above all: no neighbor interferes in Switzerland's decisions about which alliance Switzerland should join - be it military, be it economic or whatever.

Heeding your "advice" would have achieved nothing. Putin wants Russia to be the size of the former tsarist empire. No matter how Ukraine would have behaved.

And if your way of thinking were to be believed, then the states of Eastern Europe, then Central Europe and then Western Europe would be next on Putin's agenda. Because he lacks the buffer to NATO. Until now, that buffer has been Ukraine. If it became Russian, he would be even closer to NATO and would have to create a buffer again. And so on...

Lets start with the end...and that's pure populism. Russia doesn't have offensive military strength, nor resources nor nearly enough personnel to even think to invade anyone cause Putin would end up like Hitler. Secondly during his career most of that Europe was not in NATO and there wasn't slightest chance of that scenario. And third, planning to bring nuclear weapons and building military bases under direct US control pointing at Russia directly on her borders is a huge factor and don't pretend you don't see this is not a main reason for what is happening. At the end, you are writing like Putin had an agenda of occupying whole Europe. He said multiple times don't spread NATO to their borders and anyone with his power would do the same starting from US if he made an alliance with Mexico lets say and planned to put his missiles there, you would have a war. As simple as that.

Zielinski is no less of a puppet than Yanukovych and he knew exactly the risks he is taking and he didn't give a f..k about his people and his country benefits, he also played with fire by allowing what was happening to Russian minority in his country ( which if btw. Swiss people would start to do to German, Italian or French minorities that would end up with some neighbor problems for sure) 

And back to the beginning, Italia, Gemany, France or Austria don't have their neighbors missiles pointed at them despite the facts that they invaded every single country around them and some of them not so long ago. Not to even mention that some of them have pretty strong political currents that are openly promoting revision of historical maps and have pretty strong pretensions on foreign territories with influence of ideas of a guy with little square mustaches.

Back on Zielinski, he knew pretty well that the geographic position of his country requires a bit more wisdom than if he was on the other side of Europe, and Im also pretty sure he was not stupid, he knew exacly what could happen and he didn't care about his people but about being a loyal servant of masters that are throwing him crumbs at the moment but he can not say it to loud because they shut him up sooo quickly.

The first low signal he got from NATO recently to think about giving up parts of his territory speaks enough. The fact that Jenssen apologized, said it was a mistake but that even so he wouldn't rule out the idea so quickly, clearly speaks about whats going on behind the closed doors. If someone thinks something like that is a mistake coming from that level where everything is checked 100 times before it hits the public, well that one deserves a golden squirrel naivety reward.


„…despite the facts that they invaded every single country around them and some of them not so long ago. Not to even mention that some of them have pretty strong political currents that are openly promoting revision of historical maps and have pretty strong pretensions on foreign territories with influence of ideas of a guy with little square mustaches.“

I don't know how old your history books are and to what extent your remarks are Russian colored.

There are ethnic minorities in Switzerland who are attracted to Italy. And vice versa. There are Austrian minorities who are attracted to Switzerland or Italy. And vice versa. And so on.

But there's nobody there who says they don't recognize the borders anymore and marches in. Because he thinks he has to regulate the affiliations by force of arms. Do you recognize the difference?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 22, 2023, 15:53
I'm already waiting for your ostrich picture or some nastiness against Germany.
;D ;D ;D
It is necessary to send this rashist to ignore, as I have already sent many other Russian trolls there. I do not consider it necessary to waste time on them, let alone quote them.
Here in the topic, in addition to Germany, I criticized all NATO countries  :).

You don't understand Russians well and what they say. They use this and then create conflicts in the EU and other nasty things.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on August 22, 2023, 17:42


I don't know how old your history books are and to what extent your remarks are Russian colored.



Well, my grandmothers village was burned by Germans and Italians and she lost her father,  2 younger brothers , uncle and multiple school friends in that night.

As she is still alive living in the ground apartment I don't even have to use the books nor travel thousands of miles to Russia to color anything. She never stopped talking about them and now when she got dementia after she turned 98. She is even calling them on daily basis. And I don't have to be a genius to crack out that killing 10 and 12 year old kids on the spot leave marks in people that go far beyond the books.   ;)

Also as I live in a part of the country which changed "owners" multiple times so I exactly know how some tend to treat the minorities, Italians in this case to be more precise, like burning the house for owning book in wrong language, forcefully changing last names of people to fake ethnic ratios, forbidding people to get out the houses on voting day and even shooting them at the spot for speaking wrong language in public.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 23, 2023, 03:55
Today Ukraine celebrates Flag Day.
Glory to Ukraine!

(https://content1.rozetka.com.ua/goods/images/big/355604608.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 23, 2023, 03:55
(https://content1.rozetka.com.ua/goods/images/big/265905565.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on August 23, 2023, 03:58
LOL
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on August 23, 2023, 04:00
Worst leader in history of mankind.

Yeah... it makes sense, especially when compared with other leaders in history of mankind, like stalin, hitler, pol pot, mao, ceauşescu, milošević, kim jong un, putin...  ::)

Even worst than Trump?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on August 23, 2023, 04:13
By the way, not only the russians:

https://elpais.com/internacional/2023-06-06/ee-uu-supo-de-planes-ucranios-para-volar-los-gasoductos-nord-stream-segun-the-washington-post.html



Quote
EE UU supo de planes ucranios para volar los gasoductos Nord Stream, según ‘The Washington Post’

Quote
The US learned of Ukrainian plans to blow up the Nord Stream gas pipelines, according to 'The Washington Post'

Thank you NATO, we feel so safe with you, we really do. thank you for protect our democracies and all this s.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 23, 2023, 04:28
Ukraine is marking Day of the National Flag.

The holiday was established “...in honor of the centuries-old history of the Ukrainian statehood, the state symbols of independent Ukraine and in order to foster citizens’ respect for the state symbols of Ukraine”, according to the Presidential Decree of August 23, 2004. In 2009, the Decree was amended, and an annual official flag-raising ceremony was introduced across Ukraine on August 23.

The blue and yellow colors of the Ukrainian flag have a thousand-year history and date back to the times of Kyivan Rus’ and the Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia.

In modern times, Ukraine’s blue and yellow flag was first hoisted above the Stryi town hall in the Lviv region on March 14, 1990. In Kyiv, the national flag was raised over the mayor’s office on July 24, 1990.

With the start of the Russian aggression, Ukraine’s blue and yellow flag became a symbol of struggle and resistance to the invaders.

This year’s National Flag Day will be marked in Ukraine without mass gathering events due to the persisting threat of Russian attacks.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3751831-ukraine-marks-national-flag-day.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3751831-ukraine-marks-national-flag-day.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 23, 2023, 07:01
Worst leader in history of mankind.

Yeah... it makes sense, especially when compared with other leaders in history of mankind, like stalin, hitler, pol pot, mao, ceauşescu, milošević, kim jong un, putin...  ::)

Even worst than Trump?
Nah, Trump is only a moron and a petty criminal.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 23, 2023, 08:01
Ukrainian dances. Flag Day is a holiday. Ensemble of Virsky.

https://youtu.be/14ByuBDXYzw?t=1
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 23, 2023, 10:07
A huge blue-and-yellow banner was unfurled outside the European Parliament building in Brussels. Today Ukraine celebrates National Flag Day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaXzKgH-atA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaXzKgH-atA)

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 23, 2023, 15:13
News of the day

Reuters: Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has died in plane crash.

CNN: Wagner boss listed among passengers in plane crash as Russia's war continues

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-08-23-23/index.html
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 23, 2023, 15:42
News of the day

Reuters: Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has died in plane crash.
+100
Today, two main Russian war criminals and terrorists have been eliminated. Prigozhin and Utkin (callsign Wagner).
The entire command staff of the terrorist organization Wagner Group was also liquidated.

I am sure that this is the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 23, 2023, 17:03
I think that we should wait and see whether Prigozhin was really on the plane.

Maybe he just wants to disappear in order not to be eliminated by Putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 23, 2023, 18:30
News of the day

Reuters: Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has died in plane crash.
I am sure that this is the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.  8) 8) 8)

Nah... He rather fell, accidentally as usual, but from a much higher balcony!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 24, 2023, 02:01
Today, August 24, is a very big holiday. Independence Day of Ukraine!

(https://www.google.com.ua/logos/doodles/2023/ukraine-independence-day-2023-6753651837109925-l.webp)

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2019_03/thumb_files/630_360_1551768879-247.jpg)

Ukraine marks the 32nd anniversary of Independence.

The history of Ukraine and the holiday can be read here:
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3752383-ukraine-celebrates-independence-day.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3752383-ukraine-celebrates-independence-day.html)


Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 24, 2023, 02:09
News of the day

Reuters: Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has died in plane crash.
I am sure that this is the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.  8) 8) 8)

Nah... He rather fell, accidentally as usual, but from a much higher balcony!

Everyone says that it was putin who eliminated prigogine, this will be the official version. But I do not think so. This prigozhin was a trusted man of putin, and this terrorist group Wagner Group carried out all the orders of putin. Even if putin wanted to kill prigozhin, why would they kill utkin and the entire command staff of the Wagner Group together with him. prigogine could have been eliminated with fewer losses.
Here, either the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or in russia there are people who are the second power. I also wrote earlier that it is not known who manages the Russian empire at all. Perhaps we are seeing the beginning of a change in the facade of power in this empire.

In any case, the elimination of these terrorists is a very good gift for Ukraine on the day of its independence.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 24, 2023, 06:46
I think that we should wait and see whether Prigozhin was really on the plane.

Maybe he just wants to disappear in order not to be eliminated by Putin.
Rashists already confirm his liquidation. Who was actually there on the plane is not known, it is impossible to believe what the Russians say. But one thing can be said, the media will no longer show either prigozhin or utkin.

In fact, the terrorist with the nickname Wagner is utkin, it was he who founded this terrorist gang. Prigozhin came there later, as a financier. Yes, and putin worked directly only with prigozhin.

Utkin photo

(https://static.nv.ua/shared/system/Article/posters/002/734/276/original/b04a8ebda70e13b0fbdb6c02bb2d1e79.jpg?q=85&stamp=20230823204001&w=900&f=webp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 24, 2023, 06:51
(https://static.nv.ua/shared/system/Article/posters/002/667/119/original/5e56e7cf3c52833a8636c15c238f4c20.jpg?q=85&stamp=20230411170521&w=900&f=webp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 24, 2023, 07:19
Now in the world's leading media, various Russian agents of the KGB and putin's write beautiful obituaries about the war criminal and terrorist prigozhin. They call prigozhin a Russian dissident, a freedom fighter, and so on. Therefore, I always say that it is necessary to expel Russians from the democratic countries of the world, except for propaganda and lies, the Russians do not write anything else.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 25, 2023, 09:13
There is some cool news. Last night, troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine landed on boats in the occupied Crimea. During the operation, 35 Russian rashists were eliminated, the S-400 air defense system was destroyed and the Ukrainian flag was planted in the Ukrainian Crimea.

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 25, 2023, 11:45
Cheerful modern military and popular Ukrainian song.  ;D ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/WXI_GG_ynq8

Translation of the song into English
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/arta-arta.html

Meanings of some words:
Moskal - Russian, occupier.
Kazapian, katzap - Russian.
GRU - KGB.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Josephine on August 25, 2023, 11:47
Hundred years ago, the American politician Hiram Johnson came to the conclusion: "The first victim of a war is the truth."

misinformation in times of war on both sides... what is true and what not. When and how will this discussion end.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 25, 2023, 11:56
Josephine, I and other normal people in this thread are just trying to discuss the truth. There are several Russian trolls in the topic, yes, they write lies here. But rarely anyone reacts to them, I sent them to ignore.
Connect to the topic, ask questions.  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 25, 2023, 15:06
WHY THE COLLAPSE OF RUSSIA IS BENEFICIAL TO THE WEST

The West continues to consider the collapse of Russia as an undesirable and too risky scenario. It also did not give up the ghostly idea of winning Moscow over to its side in the future or at least making it neutral in a quite possible global confrontation with China. This is evidenced by a number of direct and indirect signals displayed by Western political elites since the beginning of the phase of full-scale Russian aggression against Ukraine. However, this geopolitical vision of the West is wrong. It is based on stereotypes and fears formed in the 20th century. Another reason is inertial thinking, which prevents it from seeing the global picture from a different angle and opening up new opportunities where usually they see only dangers.

Leaders of Western countries have repeatedly expressed the narrative: Putin should not win in Ukraine. But we almost never hear clear statements about the need for a military defeat of Russia and a decisive defeat of the aggressor. With the exception of European politicians who have felt the consequences of Russian imperialism, Western political elites have little enthusiasm regarding the idea of Russia’s disintegration. There are two main motives at the heart of such a biased attitude: fear and hope.

Speaking in February 2023 in Warsaw, US President Joe Biden said that the West does not seek to destroy or take control of Russia. As at the end of the 20th century, the West fears the consequences of the possible collapse of the Russian Federation in the form of uncontrolled proliferation of nuclear weapons. And he also harbors illusory hopes that after the end of Putin’s rule, we can once again try to democratize Russia and make it a more adequate player on the international stage. Another serious motive, which is guided by America and Europe, is that the integrity of Russia must be preserved in order to counter China. Such considerations undoubtedly affect the level of support for Ukraine in the war. A painful, quick, and decisive defeat of the Russian invaders on the battlefield can trigger uncontrolled processes in the Russian Federation. Processes in which Washington and Brussels are not too interested.

Thinking this way, the West ignores its own disappointing historical experience. In the 20th century, the West twice missed the opportunity to destroy the empire centered in Moscow. Accordingly, it faced the consequences of its own indecision and wrong strategy. Russia’s current aggression against Ukraine is also a consequence of wrong decisions made in the past.

The coming to power of the Bolsheviks in Russia as a result of the October coup of 1917 caught the leading Western countries by surprise. Engaged in the First World War, the political leaders of that time treated the Bolsheviks lightly, hoping that Lenin’s government would not last long. However, they were wrong in their calculations. When the First World War ended within a year, the Bolsheviks managed to strengthen themselves, controlled a large part of the territory of the former Russian Empire and planned to extend their influence on uncontrolled regions. In this situation, the countries of the Entente did not develop a single position regarding what to do with Russia. Instead of supporting the national aspirations of the peoples enslaved by Moscow, the Entente bet on the White Guard movement, which advocated a “united and indivisible Russia.” Winston Churchill, who was then the Minister of Defence of Great Britain, advocated the creation of a so-called sanitary border with Bolshevik Russia. Meanwhile, some Western politicians considered it possible to establish a dialogue with the Reds. No one was seriously interested in the collapse of Russia. As a result, the Bolsheviks managed to revive the Russian Empire, but in the format of the USSR. This later created many problems for the free world and became a prologue to the Second World War, which Hitler and Stalin blessed on August 23, 1939, with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. A lion share of the last century saw the opposition of the Russian communist empire to the countries of the West. An empire that could have disappeared in its early years if Western democracies had shown more persistence.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 25, 2023, 15:07
When the USSR was on the verge of collapse at the turn of the 80s and 90s, leading Western politicians categorically would not support, with the exception of the Baltic states, the exit of the national republics from the Soviet Union. The administration of US President George W. Bush was very concerned about the proliferation of nuclear weapons. There they sincerely believed that it was better to deal with one Russia than with a number of newly independent states. Also, for some reason, the West believed in the success of Russia’s democratization, deciding that the era of global confrontation had ended forever. Only US Defense Secretary Dick Cheney believed that the US should take advantage of the window of opportunity and contribute to the disintegration of Russia in every possible way. He did not believe in the triumph of democracy on the territory of Muscovy and assumed that in a certain time, the authoritarian regime would be revived in Russia. And so it happened. But in the early 1990s, Cheney’s views were not popular.

The democratization of Russia is an illusion that is almost impossible to realize. During the entire existence of Moscow, first in the form of a principality and kingdom, and then in the form of an empire, the period that can be conventionally called “hybrid democracy” lasts no more than 10 years. Even under Boris Yeltsin, the Kremlin perceived the West not as a partner and ally, but as a strategic competitor and enemy. For the sprouts of democracy to grow in such a society as the Russian one, a very long time is needed in combination with external management. The denazification of Germany after 1945 was carried out under the conditions of occupation of its territory by the Allied forces and lasted for decades. It will take much longer to denazify and de-imperialize the mentality of the Russians. After all, Russia has lived with a model of authoritarian rule throughout its history. However, none of the Western countries is willing to send troops into the territory of the Russian Federation and teach Russians about democracy. The only option for the democratization of Russia is its disintegration into a number of state entities. In this case, it is possible to gradually include some of the countries that will appear in the place of the former Russian Federation in the Western world and try to cure them of the imperial mentality. If Russia remains within its current borders, the coming to power of a new Putin, who will cherish hopes of revenge, is only a matter of time.

When some Western politicians say that the focus needs to be on the growing threat from China, they miss the threat posed by Russia. They have fantastic hopes that Moscow will be a deterrent for Beijing. Meanwhile, the threat emanating from China and Russia is identical for the West. At its core is the struggle of the world of authoritarian dictatorships against the free world. Moscow and Beijing sincerely dislike the West and would like to rewrite the rules of the game on the international stage; to replace international law with the law of the strongest; to adjust the borders of states and spheres of influence. Therefore, they are much more likely to join forces in confronting the global West than to fight each other. Even if Russia weakens even more and becomes a vassal of a much stronger China, this will not prevent the formation of the Beijing-Moscow axis. Additionally, consider their attracting smaller players like Iran or North Korea to it. If the Chinese dragon secures the support of Russia, which will remain as a single empire within its present borders, its aggressive ambitions will be greatly enhanced. Accordingly, the West will have to disperse its forces on two fronts, simultaneously restraining Moscow, and Beijing.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 25, 2023, 15:07
A completely different situation may arise in the event of the disintegration of Russia into a number of state entities. For example, some of the states that will emerge on the vast expanses of the former Russian Federation will fall into the orbit of Chinese influence. Still, certainly not all of them will. As for the rest of the new state entities, they can evolve in different directions. In particular, to become loyal to the West or democratize. Some other new republics may come under the influence of, say, Türkiye or other regional players. But it is definitely better than having a military and political alliance between China and the Russian Federation within its current borders.

The collapse of Russia is the only real chance to separate this great colonial empire from Chinese influence. It’s an effective means of preventing the close cooperation and alliance of the two authoritarian regimes in their fight against the free world. The disappearance from the political map of the state permeated with anti-Western mentality and ideas of revanchism more than compensates the West for the risks that will emerge in the process of the collapse of the Russian Federation. After that, the Western world will be able to concentrate its forces in one direction, restraining China’s global efforts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 27, 2023, 03:12
EU Commission calls on Russia to restore 'grain deal'

The European Commission has called on Russia to restore the "grain deal". Russian restrictions on the supply of Ukrainian grain via the Black Sea are causing problems not only for Kyiv but also for many developing countries, according to the Executive Vice President of the European Commission, Valdis Dombrovskis, cited by Reuters.

He emphasizes that Russia is using "grain as a weapon."

"We support all efforts by United Nations, by Turkey on Black Sea grain initiative," he told reporters, adding the bloc was providing alternative trading routes, also called solidarity lanes, to Ukraine for grain and other exports.

According to Dombrovskis, through alternative routes via Poland and Romania, approximately 45 million tons of grain, oilseed products, and related goods have been exported, which is a crucial lifeline for Ukraine.

"The European Union is supporting Ukraine through defense, financial and other aid, aiming to throw Russian troops beyond international borders of Ukraine," he stated.

Dombrovskis adds that the EU is concerned that some countries, including China and India, have not joined the Western sanctions against Russia.

During bilateral negotiations between representatives of India and the EU, EU officials raised the issue of exporting processed Indian oil from Russian oil, which somewhat undermines the purpose of sanctions, he adds.

However, according to him, this is unlikely to impact the ongoing negotiations for the proposed free trade agreement between the EU and India.
______
 >:( >:( >:(

What kind of deal with the rashists can we even talk about? EU wants to ease sanctions against Russians? Connect Russian banks to SWIFT, pump Russian ammonia through Ukraine, prevent the Armed Forces of Ukraine from liquidating Russians in the occupied territories of southern Ukraine? Everything that I have just written is the terms of the grain deal.
Fuck any deals with Russian Naz.is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 27, 2023, 06:33
Yes, the sanctions against russia are working

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/yes-sanctions-against-russia-are-working_en (https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/yes-sanctions-against-russia-are-working_en)

....
"Compared to 2021, 58% of total EU imports from Russia were already cut off in 2022 - an unprecedented decoupling. Non-energy imports from Russia have fallen close to 60%, with the most visible drops for iron and steel, precious metals and wood. This movement is accelerating: the decline in imports of non-energy goods is above 75% for the first quarter of 2023, and the fall is even greater for energy goods, at minus 80%.
....


EU report on the results of sanctions against the russian empire. I recommend everyone to go through the link and read more. Yes, there are results. But we need to destroy russia even more.
We need a 100% embargo on any eco-sport from russia and a 100% embargo on any shipments to russia. All citizens of the russian federation (who do not have refugee status) must be expelled from democratic countries. All Russians (who do not have refugee status) should be prohibited from doing any business on the territory of the EU and NATO countries and receiving money from these countries.
The russian empire must be fenced off from the world with an iron wall and barbed wire.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 27, 2023, 08:09
Yes, the sanctions against russia are working
In the first six months of this year, the United States increased the purchase of uranium from Russia by 2.2 times - up to 416 tons of uranium from 188 tons.
Yes, the sanctions are working. But they hit harder not on Russia, but on Europe. This is only a way for the United States to weaken its competitor - Europe and make it more dependent on USA expensive and non-environmental resources. Nord Stream was blown up, Europe knows who did it, but is afraid to even say a word about it.
China and India are also among the beneficiaries of these sanctions.

Ridding Europe of old weapons by transferring to Ukraine is a US way to cash in on the subsequent sale of new weapons to Europe.

Peaceful cooperation with Russia has always been more beneficial. I really hope that someday this nightmare will end and we will return to mutually beneficial economic and cultural cooperation.

This is my "some different opinion"
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 27, 2023, 12:35
Bakhmut, Ukraine. Elimination of rashists. POV video on a GoPro camera.

https://youtu.be/oRAZD87lnAw
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 27, 2023, 16:11
Ukraine Seeks 'Gamechanger' HIMARS Upgrade To 'Win the War'

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-gamechanger-himars-upgrade-win-war-dcipm-cluster-munitions-counteroffensive-artillery-1820071 (https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-gamechanger-himars-upgrade-win-war-dcipm-cluster-munitions-counteroffensive-artillery-1820071)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 28, 2023, 03:22
So, as follows from the article I linked to, thousands of M26 DCIPM rockets are awaiting utilization in the warehouses of NATO countries. Why are these missiles still not in Ukraine? Ukraine their utilization together with the Russians. A lot of M26 DCIPM rockets are in warehouses in Germany. Germans, demand that Scholz send these shells to Ukraine.
Biden! Don't be a coward, give Ukraine F16 fighters, ATACMS and M26 DCIPM rockets.

In any case, all fans of the Democrats see what they are doing and what it costs Ukraine and Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 28, 2023, 03:45
...
Yes, the sanctions are working. But they hit harder, not on Russia, but on Europe.


Partly agree with this. Russia has also made a lot of money from increased energy prices due to the sanctions. It is a real wake-up call for Europe to not let themselves get reliant on Russia for energy or raw materials again. It is a real credit to Europeans that they are prepared to suffer for the sake of another sovereign state, and I think a real surprise to Putin that you don't have to be an ethno nationalist to want to protect your home and way of life.


Peaceful cooperation with Russia has always been more beneficial. I really hope that someday this nightmare will end, and we will return to mutually beneficial economic and cultural cooperation.

I really hope one day peaceful cooperation with the Russian people will be possible. But sad to say, it has never really existed before.

"Cultural cooperation" has largely been through sports used as war by other means (see mass doping etc.) or for "sports washing" the country's reputation while they invade their neighbours. Russia doesn't have liberal (small l) government. It's an ethnonationalist far right government. Half of Putin's speeches are about keeping the "infection" of "perverted" foreign cultures out, to stop it polluting "pure" Russia. Under these circumstances "Cultural cooperation" is a joke.

"Economic cooperation" has been Russian elites hiding their money from the Russian people in London and other western places (corruption on both sides) or Western nations trying to raid Russia (see "shock therapy") or Russia in turn illegally appropriating infrastructure built by Western corporations.

Calls for return to peace from the Russian state media and government at this time are sadly just propaganda and calls for Ukraine to surrender.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 28, 2023, 04:26
Calls for return peace from the Russian state media and government at this time are sadly just propaganda and calls for Ukraine to surrender.
+100
This Russian zastavkin rebroadcasts Russian propaganda narratives here on the forum (he works according to the KGB manuals). The purpose of this propaganda is to blame the United States for everything, to make a split among the NATO countries, to stop military assistance to Ukraine, to tell how good and kind russia is and what good Russians are, and as a result, save russia from collapse. Russian trolls have been promoting propaganda in the EU for many years about how bad Americans are and what a bad country the USA is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 28, 2023, 04:31
Good news. The Armed Forces of Ukraine inflicted excellent blows on the Russian airfield in the city of Kursk.

Military counterintelligence operatives with the SBU’s 13th Main Directorate set up a successful kamikaze drone attack on a Russian military airfield in Kursk overnight Sunday.
Kamikaze drones "destroyed four Su-30s and a MiG-29 aircraft. Also among the targets hit were the radars of the S-300 complex and two Pantsirs."
Almost all SBU drones reached their targets.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 28, 2023, 04:34
Light-hearted video of Ukrainian soldiers wearing Hawaiin shirts to honor Maui, bopping to "What is Love".

 :)

https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1695754622751658487
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 28, 2023, 08:03
  you don't have to be an ethno nationalist to want to protect your home and way of life.
Exactly.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 28, 2023, 12:59
The Russian invaders have killed approximately 100,000 civilians in Mariupol, and this is a confirmed number.
Mykhailo Romanov, an expert at the Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group, said this during the presentation of a legally substantiated submission to the International Criminal Court about the genocide of people in Mariupol by the Russian invaders at the Ukrinform press center.

"The number of victims in Mariupol is measured in thousands, tens of thousands. We were not able to establish an exact figure at that time, but we [calculated] indirectly, based on the deduction of those parts of the population who were reported to be evacuated or taken to the territory of Russia, or some other data that allowed to deduct this population group, from the total number of the population of Mariupol. And we got a figure of approximately 100,000 people, that is, these people were killed," said Romanov.

He noted that people in Mariupol were killed in different ways, methods, with the use of different weapons, but, in any case, those were murders.

"We took some of the episodes from our own database. This is what we collected personally, in which we are confident to a certain extent, as we tried to verify every fact we found in order to obtain additional evidence to confirm the existence of these facts," the human rights defender emphasized.

The working group, which consisted of the Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group team and Mariupol citizens who had left, together collected information about the crimes of the Russians and wrote a corresponding submission. This large submission, available in Ukrainian and English, contains a lot of information about Mariupol, about how adults and children were killed there. It will be published and sent to the International Criminal Court.

The Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group is one of the oldest Ukrainian human rights organizations.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3754145-invaders-have-killed-about-100000-people-in-mariupol-human-rights-defenders.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3754145-invaders-have-killed-about-100000-people-in-mariupol-human-rights-defenders.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 28, 2023, 13:26
(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2023_08/1691386620-559.jpg)

Some people here on the forum tell me that I do not talk politely with rashists and Russian trolls.
Look at the image, this is how you need to talk with Russians, and this is the only language they understand.
To date, Russian losses have amounted to more than 260 thousand people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 28, 2023, 13:59
Some people here on the forum tell me that I do not talk politely with rashists and Russian trolls.
Look at the image, this is how you need to talk with Russians, and this is the only language they understand.
To date, Russian losses have amounted to more than 260 thousand people.
You do know that nobody believes those numbers except for you and the propoganda machine of Ukraine. It is propoganda and not facts. The actual numbers are way lower but higher then russian propoganda brings it. Get some grip on reality here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 28, 2023, 14:13
Pope Francis is a Rashist and supports Russians?


"The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine reacted to the words of Pope Francis, who said that the Russians are the heirs of a "great" state, and mentioned Peter I, Catherine II and others in this context.
From the lips of the Pope, "imperialist propaganda" was sounded, with which the Russian Federation justifies its aggression against Ukraine.
The Pope addressed the participants of the X All-Russian Day of Catholic Youth in St. Petersburg on August 25.

In his speech, he said: "Never forget about the heritage. You are the heirs of great Russia: the great Russia of saints, rulers, the great Russia of Peter I, Catherine II, that empire - great, enlightened, [a country] of great culture and great humanity. Never don't give up this legacy, you are the heirs of the great Mother Russia, go ahead with it. And thank you. Thank you for your way of being, for your way of being Russians."

Foreign Ministry spokesman Oleg Nikolenko stressed that the Kremlin justifies the murders of thousands of Ukrainians and the destruction of hundreds of Ukrainian cities and villages with such imperialist propaganda, "spiritual bonds" and "need" to save the "great Mother Russia".

"It is very unfortunate that Russian great-power ideas, which, in fact, are the cause of Russia's chronic aggressiveness, consciously or unconsciously, come from the lips of the Pope, whose mission, in our understanding, is precisely to open the eyes of Russian youth to the destructive course of the current Russian leadership," Nikolenko said.

It is noteworthy that the information portal of the Holy See, Vatican News, posted the text of the Pope's address on its website, but this passage is missing from it. At the same time, the network has a video excerpt of the Pope's address with this quote."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on August 28, 2023, 14:23
Pope Francis is a Rashist and supports Russians?


"The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine reacted to the words of Pope Francis, who said that the Russians are the heirs of a "great" state, and mentioned Peter I, Catherine II and others in this context.
From the lips of the Pope, "imperialist propaganda" was sounded, with which the Russian Federation justifies its aggression against Ukraine.
The Pope addressed the participants of the X All-Russian Day of Catholic Youth in St. Petersburg on August 25.

In his speech, he said: "Never forget about the heritage. You are the heirs of great Russia: the great Russia of saints, rulers, the great Russia of Peter I, Catherine II, that empire - great, enlightened, [a country] of great culture and great humanity. Never don't give up this legacy, you are the heirs of the great Mother Russia, go ahead with it. And thank you. Thank you for your way of being, for your way of being Russians."

Foreign Ministry spokesman Oleg Nikolenko stressed that the Kremlin justifies the murders of thousands of Ukrainians and the destruction of hundreds of Ukrainian cities and villages with such imperialist propaganda, "spiritual bonds" and "need" to save the "great Mother Russia".

"It is very unfortunate that Russian great-power ideas, which, in fact, are the cause of Russia's chronic aggressiveness, consciously or unconsciously, come from the lips of the Pope, whose mission, in our understanding, is precisely to open the eyes of Russian youth to the destructive course of the current Russian leadership," Nikolenko said.

It is noteworthy that the information portal of the Holy See, Vatican News, posted the text of the Pope's address on its website, but this passage is missing from it. At the same time, the network has a video excerpt of the Pope's address with this quote."

I think the pope is a KGB agent. Don't you think so? :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 28, 2023, 14:38
Some people here on the forum tell me that I do not talk politely with rashists and Russian trolls.
Look at the image, this is how you need to talk with Russians, and this is the only language they understand.
To date, Russian losses have amounted to more than 260 thousand people.
You do know that nobody believes those numbers except for you and the propoganda machine of Ukraine. It is propoganda and not facts. The actual numbers are way lower but higher then russian propoganda brings it. Get some grip on reality here.

I had questioned and researched these figures. They are correct. Only stocker's wording, which he always used, is not correct. The 250,000 casualties are not "eliminated" Russian soldiers, but those who were either killed or wounded so badly that they could no longer fight.

Nevertheless, Putin will eventually have a problem explaining to the relatives mothers and fathers that it was not a war but a "military operation" that resulted in 250,000 dead and severely wounded. That shortly every 500th Russian has taken personal damage. You can't just brush that off.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 28, 2023, 15:10
To date, the losses of the Russians are more than 260 thousand people. In fact, the losses of the Russians are greater, you can multiply the figure of 260 thousand by 1.5 times. I read that the statistics of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are based only on confirmed data, which means that they do not take into account all the losses of the Russians.
But I brought this image in order to show that the Russians understand only the language of force. Dialogue with the Russians can only be firepower, they do not understand anything else.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 29, 2023, 03:13
So, the statements of Pope Francis indicate that the Catholic Church supports the Russian Naz.is. This is a serious blow to democracy around the world.
I don't see Catholic protests against such a Pope.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 29, 2023, 12:46
The scandal intensifies, there is only one conclusion, Pope Francis supports evil. This will cause even more damage to the declining Catholic Church.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 29, 2023, 12:52
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/29/pope-russia-ukraine-war-vatican-imperial/690bee5a-4652-11ee-b76b-0b6e5e92090d_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/29/pope-russia-ukraine-war-vatican-imperial/690bee5a-4652-11ee-b76b-0b6e5e92090d_story.html)

Vatican seeks to tamp down outrage over pope's words of praise for Russian imperial past

VATICAN CITY — The Vatican on Tuesday sought to tamp down an uproar that erupted after Pope Francis praised Russia’s imperialist past during a video conference with Russian Catholic youths, insisting that he never intended to encourage modern-day Russian aggression in Ukraine.

The Vatican spokesman, Matteo Bruni, said Francis merely wanted to praise the positive aspects of Russia’s spiritual and cultural history when he exalted Russia’s imperial rulers Peter and Catherine the Great, encouraged young people to remember that past and praised their way of “being Russian.”

Francis “certainly didn’t want to exalt imperialistic logic or government personalities, who were cited to indicate certain historic periods of reference,” Bruni said in a statement.

The Vatican, and before it the Holy See’s embassy in Ukraine, spoke out after Ukraine’s Greek Catholic leader, His Beatitude Sviatoslav Shevchuk, bitterly complained about Francis’ remarks. The Vatican never published the comments, but they were shared on social media following Francis’ video conference with a Catholic youth encounter Friday in St. Petersburg.

Francis delivered a prepared text in which he encouraged the young Russians to be “artisans of peace” and to sow reconciliation “in this winter of war.” But in his off-the-cuff remarks, Francis told the young Russians to always remember their past.

“Never forget your inheritance. You are the heirs of the great Russia. The great Russia of the saints, of the kings, of the great Russia of Peter the Great, of Catherine II, that great imperial Russia, cultivated, with so much culture and humanity,” Francis said, according to the video clip. “Never forget this inheritance. You are the heirs of the great Mother Russia, go forward. And thank you. Thank you for your way of being, for your way of being Russian.”

Shevchuk, who has frequently spoken out to complain about Francis’ interventions about Russia, issued a blistering reply. He said the reference to Russia’s imperial leaders “refer to the worst example of Russian imperialism and extreme nationalism.”

“We fear that those words are understood by some as an encouragement of precisely this nationalism and imperialism, which is the real cause of the war in Ukraine,” he said. “War that every day brings death and destruction to our people.”

The Vatican embassy in Kyiv said Francis’ words had been misinterpreted and distanced itself from such interpretations, saying Francis never encouraged “imperialistic ideas.”

“On the contrary, he is a convinced opponent and critic of any form of imperialism or colonialism, among all peoples and situations,” the embassy said in a statement.

Francis has occasionally enraged both sides in the war in Ukraine with his off-the-cuff remarks. He has seemingly justified Russia’s invasion by saying NATO was “barking at Russia’s gates” with its eastward expansion. At the same time, Moscow lodged a formal diplomatic protest when he blamed most of the cruelty of the war on Chechens and other minorities, in an apparent effort to spare ethnic Russian troops from criticism.

On Tuesday, the spokesman for President Vladimir Putin, Dmitry Peskov, praised Francis’ “deep” grasp of Russian history and said Russian teachers and schools were trying to teach young Russians of their heritage.

“And the fact that the pontiff, let’s say, sounds in unison with these efforts, is very, very gratifying,” Peskov said.

While Francis has frequently voiced solidarity with the “martyred” Ukrainian people, the Vatican has insisted it isn’t taking sides in the war, in hopes of trying to remain a neutral player in search of peace.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 29, 2023, 12:55
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/29/world/vatican-pope-francis-russia.html?searchResultPosition=1 (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/29/world/vatican-pope-francis-russia.html?searchResultPosition=1)

Vatican Tries to Clarify Pope Francis’ Remarks on Russia
The Holy See sought to calm an outcry over comments that some critics said were too close to President Vladimir Putin’s justifications for invading Ukraine.

Pope Francis did not intend to “glorify imperialistic logic” in off-the-cuff remarks last week about expansionist 18th-century Russian rulers, the Vatican said on Tuesday, seeking to calm an outcry over comments that some critics said were too close to President Vladimir V. Putin’s justifications for invading Ukraine.

In a video speech to young Russian Catholics on Friday, “The Pope intended to encourage the youth to preserve and promote all that is positive in the great Russian cultural and spiritual legacy,” the Vatican spokesman, Matteo Bruni, said in a statement. “Surely not to glorify imperialistic logic and government personalities.”

At the conclusion of his speech, in which Francis encouraged young Catholic Russians to build bridges between generations and spread seeds of reconciliation, he invoked the legacy of the “Great Russia of saints, rulers, Great Russia of Peter I, Catherine II, that empire — great, enlightened, of great culture and great humanity.”

Those comments appeared to deviate from his prepared remarks, which were released in a Vatican bulletin that did not mention the extemporaneous references to the two former Russian tsars, who invaded parts of Ukraine in the 18th centuries.

Those comments were immediately criticized in Ukraine and in other former Soviet countries. Mr. Putin, who compared himself to Peter the Great in a speech last year, has mentioned the idea of rebuilding the Russian empire in connection with the war in Ukraine, which was part of the Soviet Union until its collapse in three decades ago.

A spokesman for Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry, Oleg Nikolenko, wrote on Facebook that it was “very unfortunate that Russian grand-state ideas, which, in fact, are the cause of Russia’s chronic aggression, knowingly or unknowingly, come from the Pope’s mouth.”

The leader of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, Sviatoslav Shevchuk, also expressed “pain” and “disappointment” over the pope’s remarks, which he said contradicted Francis’ doctrine of peace.

In the early months of the war set off by the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the pope was criticized for not taking a strong enough stance against Russia, apparently following  a standard strategy of the Holy See to avoid alienating any warring side before possible peace negotiations. But as the war has continued, Francis has reversed course and called Ukrainians “martyrs” in a “morally unjust” war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 29, 2023, 12:57
Either Pope Francis is no longer friends with his head, or he does not know the history of imperial fascist russia. Or maybe Pope Francis is getting money from Russian Naz.is? There is information that the Russians sponsor the Vatican well.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 29, 2023, 14:37
So, the statements of Pope Francis indicate that the Catholic Church supports the Russian Naz.is. This is a serious blow to democracy around the world.
I don't see Catholic protests against such a Pope.

Sorry... I couldn't resist.
Uncanny resemblance!

PS. His praise for the russian Empire was unintentional. He regreted it after the bird has flown (just an example of how deep propaganda penetrates even intelligent people's minds)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 03:11
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwfe0DmtVya/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng== (https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cwfe0DmtVya/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==)

China supplies the Russians with weapons. In the video, soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine found Chinese mines on the positions of Russian occupiers.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 03:18
Good news tonight.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces attacked Moscow, Oryol, Bryansk (three times), Ryazan, Kaluga and Pskov regions. In addition, Sevastopol and the bay fought off naval drones.

Attack results:

⚠️Pskov (airfield, ~700 km from Ukraine): four IL-76 military transport planes were damaged, and a military base was also hit.

⚠️Bryansk: downing of drones. One fell on the largest microelectronics plant in the Russian Federation, and the other on a tank for storing oil products;

⚠️Orlov, Moscow, Kaluga and Ryazan regions: enemy air defense was operating.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 30, 2023, 05:24
Yes, the sanctions against russia are working
Financial Times:
"The EU is set to import record volumes of liquefied natural gas from Russia this year."
"EU imports of the super-chilled gas were up 40 per cent between January and July this year compared with the same period in 2021, before Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine."
https://www.ft.com/content/1e70ff72-52d8-46b6-a8f4-fcc86fb88a6d (https://www.ft.com/content/1e70ff72-52d8-46b6-a8f4-fcc86fb88a6d)

It turns out that the explosion of the Nord Stream is, to a greater extent, a blow not against Russia, but against Germany, which previously received cheap pipeline gas? Who benefited from the weakening of such industrial competitor as Germany?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 30, 2023, 06:44
Yes, the sanctions against russia are working
Financial Times:
"The EU is set to import record volumes of liquefied natural gas from Russia this year."
"EU imports of the super-chilled gas were up 40 per cent between January and July this year compared with the same period in 2021, before Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine."
https://www.ft.com/content/1e70ff72-52d8-46b6-a8f4-fcc86fb88a6d (https://www.ft.com/content/1e70ff72-52d8-46b6-a8f4-fcc86fb88a6d)

It turns out that the explosion of the Nord Stream is, to a greater extent, a blow not against Russia, but against Germany, which previously received cheap pipeline gas? Who benefited from the weakening of such industrial competitor as Germany?

Again, yes, sucks that the West was prepared to compromise itself morally by turning a blind eye and buying so many natural resources from Russia and other countries that shouldn't be given leverage in this way. Sadly it means they are now somewhat caught in a trap while they transition away.

From the same article: “The jump comes from a low base as the EU did not import significant amounts of LNG before the war in Ukraine due to its reliance on piped gas from Russia.”

I’m glad there is a free press in the West able to report these things, criticise and apply pressure for change. I hope it is a wake up call to stop relying on oppressive regimes in future (like, Russia, Saudi etc.) as it gives them way too much power. Long term renewable resources and possibly nuclear are the only solution.

EDIT: I was interested to look into this further. As implied by the "low base" phrase, total Gas imports from Russia (LGN plus pipeline) have  have plummeted (slightly older but to get an idea https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/eu-gas-supply/ (https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/eu-gas-supply/) or https://www.statista.com/statistics/1331770/eu-gas-imports-from-russia-by-route/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1331770/eu-gas-imports-from-russia-by-route/)) but LGN makes up a larger percentage of that much lower amount.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 30, 2023, 06:59
Long term renewable resources and possibly nuclear are the only solution.
I don't have much confidence in renewable resources. Most of them are not environmentally friendly. For example, wind turbines in the US alone kill over half a million birds every year.
The future belongs to nuclear and thermonuclear energy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 07:09
I’m glad there is a free press in the West able to report these things, criticise and apply pressure for change. I hope it is a wake up call to stop relying on oppressive regimes in future (like, Russia, Saudi etc.) as it gives them way too much power. Long term renewable resources and possibly nuclear are the only solution.
+100
All Russian gas and oil pipelines must be liquidated. Democracies don't have to buy anything from Russians. Any country that pays money to the Russians should be sanctioned.
Oil and gas are all good, but you don’t need to buy these energy resources from the Russians. You can buy in the US and the Middle East, no matter what the price, the main thing is not to give money to the Russians.
The war in Europe showed that focusing only on clean energy is a utopia, so the EU needs both gas and oil, coal and nuclear energy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 30, 2023, 07:49
Long term renewable resources and possibly nuclear are the only solution.
I don't have much confidence in renewable resources. Most of them are not environmentally friendly. For example, wind turbines in the US alone kill over half a million birds every year.
The future belongs to nuclear and thermonuclear energy.
UK is one of the countries with most wind turbines:

https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/how-many-birds-are-killed-by-wind-turbines-in-the-uk (https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/how-many-birds-are-killed-by-wind-turbines-in-the-uk)

"Few studies have investigated the phenomenon, but estimates suggest that between 10,000 and 100,000 birds are killed by turbine blade strikes annually in the UK.

That’s a lot, but it’s worth noting that approximately 55 million birds are killed in the UK each year by domestic cats. Nevertheless, research suggests there may be ways to make wind turbines safer for wildlife. For example, a small-scale study in Norway found that painting one of the wind turbines blades black, reduced bird deaths by 70 per cent."


Honestly its a non issue compared to birds killed by cats or by flying into windows, but should be (and can be) mitigated as much as possible anyway. Especially a non issue to the people pushing it into the press who frankly don’t give a sh*t about wildlife unless it hits their bottom line.

The only reason it hits the headiness in the West is because of funding by gas and oil industry and various lobbyists/ think-tanks. I imagine living in Russia where fossil fuels are so critical to the economy you are also bombarded with the same kinds of propaganda 24/7.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 08:36
I imagine living in Russia where fossil fuels are so critical to the economy you are also bombarded with the same kinds of propaganda 24/7.
+100
Russians are concerned about the number of birds dying in the EU and the US  ::). But at the same time, the Russians are killing hundreds of thousands of civilians in Ukraine, and are organizing ecocides in Ukraine. As a result of ecocide in Ukraine, a lot of flora and fauna are dying. I'm not talking about the terrible ecology in the Russian empire and how many birds are dying there. Barbarians and savages, what else can be said about them.
The future of the world's energy industry will be without russia.

russia needs to be disconnected from the global Internet so that the Russians do not export their propaganda and lies to democratic countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 09:05
German politician steps down, exposed over painting swastikas on Ukrainian cars

https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/baden-baden-afd-stadtrat-martin-kuehne-tritt-zurueck-hakenkreuz-auf-ukrainischen-autos-a-51f10c48-e925-4eca-ac4c-45ef82ac84ac (https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/baden-baden-afd-stadtrat-martin-kuehne-tritt-zurueck-hakenkreuz-auf-ukrainischen-autos-a-51f10c48-e925-4eca-ac4c-45ef82ac84ac)

A deputy of the city council of the German city of Baden-Baden, who painted swastikas and insults on the vehicles with Ukrainian license plates, has resigned from his post.

The offender was identified as Martin Kühne with the radical right-wing Alternative for Germany (AfD) party.

For his act, he received a fine in the amount of 50 daily wages. The ruling is yet to enter into force.

Earlier this week, the public prosecutor's office in Baden-Baden pressed charges against the elected official for using Nazi symbols, which is prohibited by German law.

The politician did not comment on the accusations against him either to the public or to his fellow party members. In total, there were three deputies from the AfD in the city council of the resort town.

As reported, the incidents happened back in January and March of this year, the politician vandalized two cars with Ukrainian license plates, drawing swastikas on them and writing an explicit "F*ck UA" in capital letters. For his offense, the deputy was fined 50 days' salary (the exact figure has not been published) "for using paraphernalia of anti-constitutional organizations" and public insult, the Baden-Baden prosecutor's office reported on Monday, August 28.

The Baden-Baden City Council consists of The Greens, Christian Democrats, Free Citizens of Baden-Baden, Social Democrats, Free Democrats, and representatives of the right-wing populist party Alternative for Germany. The rest of the factions condemned the act of their former colleague.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 09:08
Four Il-76 airlifters confirmed as destroyed in Russia’s Pskov – Ukrainian intel
 8) 8) 8)  ;D

Following the overnight drone attack on Russia’s Pskov, four enemy Il-76 strategic and tactical airlifters were destroyed.
The relevant statement was made by Andrii Yusov, the representative of the Main Intelligence Directorate at the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, in a commentary to Ukrinform.

“Yes, we officially confirm this information. Four Il-76 [airlifters] have been destroyed and cannot be restored. A few more units [planes] were damaged. As for those damaged, the information is being checked,” Yusov told.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3754871-four-il76-airlifters-confirmed-as-destroyed-in-russias-pskov-ukrainian-intel.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3754871-four-il76-airlifters-confirmed-as-destroyed-in-russias-pskov-ukrainian-intel.html)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E62gTNJbaug (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E62gTNJbaug)

well burn  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 30, 2023, 09:09
The only reason it hits the headiness in the West is because of funding by gas and oil industry and various lobbyists/ think-tanks. I imagine living in Russia where fossil fuels are so critical to the economy you are also bombarded with the same kinds of propaganda 24/7.
  In fact, this is not quite so. I am an ecologist, I myself took part in the examination of environmental disasters. But I do not see much propaganda in Russia for the use of fossil fuel sources. This is because there is no point in such propaganda and the Russian energy system is unified. The degree of development of various energy sectors does not depend on ordinary people. We have enough other propaganda, as in any other country)).
In general, gas-fired power plants prevail in Russia (about 50%). Nuclear power plants (about 16%) and hydro generation (about 18%) make up a significant part. Coal accounts for about 15%. The share of electricity produced from oil and renewable sources is very small. But many people associate the future of Russian energy primarily with the development of nuclear and thermonuclear energy. There are plans for hydrogen energy on a worldwide scale.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 30, 2023, 10:09
In fact, this is not quite so. I am an ecologist, I myself took part in the examination of environmental disasters. But I do not see much propaganda in Russia for the use of fossil fuel sources. This is because there is no point in such propaganda and the Russian energy system is unified. The degree of development of various energy sectors does not depend on ordinary people. We have enough other propaganda, as in any other country)).
In general, gas-fired power plants prevail in Russia (about 50%). Nuclear power plants (about 16%) and hydro generation (about 18%) make up a significant part. Coal accounts for about 15%. The share of electricity produced from oil and renewable sources is very small. But many people associate the future of Russian energy primarily with the development of nuclear and thermonuclear energy. There are plans for hydrogen energy on a worldwide scale.

Interesting, thanks. We have some papers that run propaganda for the fossil fuel industry daily. Constantly running with misleading/ discredited or cherry picked stats or even going as far as paying "academics" for hire that don't even work in the a related field to say in their opinion climate change is overblown or doesn't exist, or that various replacement tech doesn’t work. It’s gross.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 10:44
Interesting, thanks. We have some papers that run propaganda for the fossil fuel industry daily. Constantly running with misleading/ discredited or cherry picked stats or even going as far as paying "academics" for hire that don't even work in the a related field to say in their opinion climate change is overblown or doesn't exist, or that various replacement tech doesn’t work. It’s gross.
I will add about the Russians. Russian trolls spread propaganda in the EU and the US against green energy. The goal of the Russians is to sell a lot of gas and oil for dollars and euros. Therefore, they will tell about the perishing birds from the blades of windmills and other similar nonsense. But at the same time, they will talk about how good and profitable it is to buy gas, oil and nuclear fuel from putin; and how well the Russians build nuclear power plants.
As for russia itself, the Russians don't even care about their own ecology.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 11:16
EDIT: I was interested to look into this further. As implied by the "low base" phrase, total Gas imports from Russia (LGN plus pipeline) have  have plummeted (slightly older but to get an idea https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/eu-gas-supply/ (https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/eu-gas-supply/) or https://www.statista.com/statistics/1331770/eu-gas-imports-from-russia-by-route/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1331770/eu-gas-imports-from-russia-by-route/)) but LGN makes up a larger percentage of that much lower amount.
Yes, sanctions against russia are working and producing results. Although slowly, but the gas_station-country called russia is thrown out of the civilized market and civilized relations.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on August 30, 2023, 12:30
the gas_station-country called russia
Correction: "Gas station run by a mafia masquerading as a country."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 30, 2023, 12:52
the gas_station-country called russia
Correction: "Gas station run by a mafia masquerading as a country."
Correction: Legitimate mafia, which is supported by 80-95% of the population. And if you speak in a language understandable to Russian serfs, then this is not a mafia, but a tsar and boyars.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on August 30, 2023, 16:45
Long term renewable resources and possibly nuclear are the only solution.
I don't have much confidence in renewable resources. Most of them are not environmentally friendly. For example, wind turbines in the US alone kill over half a million birds every year.
The future belongs to nuclear and thermonuclear energy.

Could you please publish the numbers of animals that died only because of the Chernobyl reactor disaster (not only birds are meant)? Or the number of birds that die due to the thawing of permafrost soils. Or by exhaust gases from fossil fuels.

You can't find any numbers or studies on this? Funny! Have you ever asked yourself why this is so? Why there are such numbers only for wind turbines?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 30, 2023, 18:07
Long term renewable resources and possibly nuclear are the only solution.
I don't have much confidence in renewable resources. Most of them are not environmentally friendly. For example, wind turbines in the US alone kill over half a million birds every year.
The future belongs to nuclear and thermonuclear energy.

Could you please publish the numbers of animals that died only because of the Chernobyl reactor disaster (not only birds are meant)? Or the number of birds that die due to the thawing of permafrost soils. Or by exhaust gases from fossil fuels.

You can't find any numbers or studies on this? Funny! Have you ever asked yourself why this is so? Why there are such numbers only for wind turbines?

Yes.

How about the estimated 480 million animals lost in our catastrophic Australian bushfires a couple of years ago - the highest rate of species lost of any area in the world at that time?

More recently:

- Maui Hawaii fires
- Florida/Georgia flooding - now
- Summer in the Northern Hemisphere is playing out like an apocalypse movie: a tale of heat, floods and fire. But scientists warn this may only be a preview of the unpredictable chaos to come if the world continues to pump out planet-heating pollution. (https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/19/world/extreme-weather-heat-floods-abnormal-climate-scn/index.html)

and also food crops:

- Climate change has ravaged India’s rice stock. Now its export ban could deepen a global food crisis (https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/28/business-india/india-rice-ban-export-farmers-loss-intl-hnk-dst/index.html)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 30, 2023, 18:41
Is nuclear power a zero-emissions energy source?

"No. Nuclear energy is also responsible for greenhouse gas emissions. In fact, no energy source is completely free of emissions, but more on that later.

When it comes to nuclear, uranium extraction, transport and processing produces emissions. The long and complex construction process of nuclear power plants also releases CO2, as does the demolition of decommissioned sites. And, last but not least, nuclear waste also has to be transported and stored under strict conditions — here, too, emissions must be taken into account.

Due to the high costs associated with nuclear energy, it also blocks important financial resources that could instead be used to develop renewable energy, said Jan Haverkamp, a nuclear expert and activist with environment NGO Greenpeace in the Netherlands. Those renewables would provide more energy that is both faster and cheaper than nuclear, he said.

If the entire life cycle of a nuclear plant is included in the calculation, nuclear energy certainly comes out ahead of fossil fuels like coal or natural gas.

In addition, nuclear energy itself has been affected by climate change. During the world's increasingly hot summers, several nuclear power plants have already had to be temporarily shut down or taken off the grid. Power plants depend on nearby water sources to cool their reactors, and with many rivers drying up, those sources of water are no longer guaranteed."


https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-nuclear-energy-good-for-the-climate/a-59853315 (https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-nuclear-energy-good-for-the-climate/a-59853315)


(and yes, Australia is still producing coal - something I am very shameful to admit. But we (the voters) are trying. We voted out the last government - but the new one is so far no better. The politics are disgusting and we are running out of time.)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-18/coal-closure-delayed-as-australia-runs-out-of-time/102743928 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-18/coal-closure-delayed-as-australia-runs-out-of-time/102743928)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 30, 2023, 22:51
Is nuclear power a zero-emissions energy source?

"No. Nuclear energy is also responsible for greenhouse gas emissions. In fact, no energy source is completely free of emissions, but more on that later.

When it comes to nuclear, uranium extraction, transport and processing produces emissions. The long and complex construction process of nuclear power plants also releases CO2, as does the demolition of decommissioned sites. And, last but not least, nuclear waste also has to be transported and stored under strict conditions — here, too, emissions must be taken into account.
Yes. Any energy production is accompanied by thermal and other pollution of the planet. Therefore, in order to reduce the negative effect, technologies are being developed for a closed nuclear fuel cycle that provides access to 99% of the energy of uranium.  With this technology, waste from the nuclear industry is used as fuel. https://globalenergyprize.org/en/2022/05/18/georgy-tikhomirov-a-closed-nuclear-fuel-cycle-opens-up-access-to-99-percent-of-uraniums-energy/ (https://globalenergyprize.org/en/2022/05/18/georgy-tikhomirov-a-closed-nuclear-fuel-cycle-opens-up-access-to-99-percent-of-uraniums-energy/)

Power plants depend on nearby water sources to cool their reactors, and with many rivers drying up, those sources of water are no longer guaranteed."
Nuclear desalination. Desalination of salt water using nuclear power can help solve problems with a lack of fresh water. In the arid regions of the USSR, this technology has been used since the early 1970s. (For example, the nuclear desalination plant at the Shevchenko NPP, which operated the world's first industrial fast neutron reactor). Such technologies can be a way out to solve the lack of fresh water on a global scale.

And yes, we also use solar energy))) https://www.shutterstock.com/en/image-photo/green-energy-on-your-balcony-multistorey-1981054277 (https://www.shutterstock.com/en/image-photo/green-energy-on-your-balcony-multistorey-1981054277)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 30, 2023, 23:22
(and yes, Australia is still producing coal - something I am very shameful to admit. But we (the voters) are trying. We voted out the last government - but the new one is so far no better. The politics are disgusting and we are running out of time.)
I looked at the statistics. Really. Coal-fired power plants in Australia accounted for about 54% of electricity generation in 2020. For comparison: in India in 2020 - 71%, in China 57%, in the USA 19%, in Russia - 16%.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on August 31, 2023, 00:12
(and yes, Australia is still producing coal - something I am very shameful to admit. But we (the voters) are trying. We voted out the last government - but the new one is so far no better. The politics are disgusting and we are running out of time.)
I looked at the statistics. Really. Coal-fired power plants in Australia accounted for about 54% of electricity generation in 2020. For comparison: in India in 2020 - 71%, in China 57%, in the USA 19%, in Russia - 16%.

Have a look at carbon emissions into the atmosphere, and you will get a different story if you're looking for total impact.

Australia is usually listed in the top 20 world offenders for global heating mainly due to our coal production/mining (the latter causing methane emissions) and keeping in mind that 70% is exported overseas. Plus you have to remember that we have a very small population (less than 1/10th of USA in a country approximately the same size geographically) so don't look at any per-capita stats. Basically, we are a big country with lots of natural resources that we sell to the rest of the world*.

But USA, Russia, China, India are usually in the top 5 worst CO2 emitters in the world overall.**

Anyway, its not a competition - its about everyone doing their share to fix this problem.



* If you're interested: "Australia is one of the leaders in uranium and gold mining. Australia has the largest gold reserves in the world, and they supply about 14.3% of the world’s demand. Australia is known for its vast reserve of iron ore, copper, timber, nickel, oil shale, rare earth metals, and coal. Australia is the top producers of opal and aluminum."


** 2021 article - but the most recent source I can find quickly: https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/environment/954661/climate-change-the-worst-offenders (https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/environment/954661/climate-change-the-worst-offenders)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 31, 2023, 03:52
Long term renewable resources and possibly nuclear are the only solution.
I don't have much confidence in renewable resources. Most of them are not environmentally friendly. For example, wind turbines in the US alone kill over half a million birds every year.
The future belongs to nuclear and thermonuclear energy.

Could you please publish the numbers of animals that died only because of the Chernobyl reactor disaster (not only birds are meant)? Or the number of birds that die due to the thawing of permafrost soils. Or by exhaust gases from fossil fuels.

You can't find any numbers or studies on this? Funny! Have you ever asked yourself why this is so? Why there are such numbers only for wind turbines?
;D
Let him look there in russia for how many birds and animals died at the hands of Russian invaders in Ukraine during 10 years of occupation and war.  >:( >:( >:(
This is an impossible task for rashists. The main thing for them is to write on international forums how many birds die from windmills in the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 31, 2023, 04:01
(and yes, Australia is still producing coal - something I am very shameful to admit. But we (the voters) are trying. We voted out the last government - but the new one is so far no better. The politics are disgusting and we are running out of time.)
Don't worry about it. It is very good that Australia mines coal. Poland and Germany also mine it. Now there is a third world war, and there will not always be enough gas and green energy. Coal is a good alternative.
Moreover, the Russians are thrown out of the market with their gas.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 31, 2023, 04:06
Rashists understand only the language of force. So I have good news for everyone.  8) 8) 8)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/30/f35-fighter-jets-nuclear-weapons-raf-lakenheath-suffolk/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/30/f35-fighter-jets-nuclear-weapons-raf-lakenheath-suffolk/)

US fighter jets capable of nuclear bombing to be based in UK
Two squadrons of hi-tech F-35 As set to arrive at RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk imminently


(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2023/08/30/TELEMMGLPICT000347353707_16934233086700_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqa624pwIgEtTegXtV7jBkZ2-UFmZ2LToMIGNPksY8ZTs.jpeg?imwidth=960)

US F-35 fighter jets have reportedly been deployed to RAF Lakenheath, with fears the move may herald the start of a new cold war
New United States fighter jets capable of carrying nuclear weapons will be based in the UK as soon as this year.

Two squadrons of F-35 As have been deployed and will arrive at the US-rented RAF Lakenheath in Suffolk imminently, The Telegraph understands.

The stealth jets are designed to carry out tactical nuclear bombing and are capable of conducting air-to-air missions and intelligence gathering.

It comes after official documents suggested US nuclear weapons could return to British soil.

The documents revealed that the US Congress received an air force budgetary request for $50 million (£39.6 million) to build a “surety dormitory” at the American airbase. The term “surety” is used in US military parlance to refer to nuclear weapons.

Analysts believe the dormitory would accommodate an increased number of military personnel if nuclear weapons are deployed to bolster the 6,000 members of personnel who currently work at the base.

A defence source told The Telegraph: “F-35s will be based there. They have deployed and will be moving in at the end of this year, if not sometime in 2024.”

Military sources described the move to bring in 54 F-35s, which will replace the F-15s currently at the airbase, as “significant”. F-15s are able to carry nuclear weapons, but are less advanced.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 31, 2023, 04:08
The source said: “It’s a newer, more capable aircraft, which has a longer range and stealth, which is crucial if you are going to use them to accurately drop nuclear bombs.”

A total of 110 US nuclear bombs were stored at RAF Lakenheath until 2008, when they were removed after the threat of nuclear war subsided.

Both the Ministry of Defence and No 10 declined to comment on whether American nuclear warheads had or would be deployed to the UK.

However, the defence source added: “Why we have a special relationship with the US is because we talk to them, they talk to us and we don’t divulge secrets.”

The potential return of US nuclear weapons to British soil has been described by experts as evidence that the West has entered a new cold war.

Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former commander of Britain and Nato’s Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment, said: “This is absolutely a cold war and it is strategic brinkmanship. This is a game of poker. If the US is putting nukes in the UK, it’s a message to Russia that they are serious.

“The deterrent is only a deterrent if the enemy thinks you will use it. That’s worked for the last 75 years, but we are now in a position where a tyrant in an unstable country is threatening to use nuclear weapons and the only way to stop them is to make them see they will get it back in spades.”

Prof Malcolm Chalmers, of the Royal United Services Institute think tank, said building on the airbase means the US “could move them a lot more quickly in a time of rising tensions”, adding: “They want the option of bringing them over.”

Matt Hancock, whose West Suffolk constituency covers RAF Lakenheath, said he welcomed the “potential expansion”.

“I know only too well how special RAF Lakenheath is and recognise the importance of reinforcing our commitment to shared security and democratic values,” he said.

“The people of West Suffolk have long been proud to welcome American service personnel who live in our community. We must continue to support and stand shoulder to shoulder with our American friends and allies, especially in the face of Putin’s menacing aggression.”

‘Strategic alliance’
Tobias Ellwood, the chairman of the defence select committee, said: “If the Americans believe they need to store nuclear weapons this side of the Atlantic, it is a massive indicator of how dangerous and complex our world is becoming.”

Mr Ellwood added that the UK is “part of a strategic alliance” in which “the US is our closest partner”, adding: “If they believe it is in wider security interests to place these weapons in the UK, then we should be supportive of that.”

Hans Kristensen, the director of the Nuclear Information Project at the Federation of American Scientists think tank, said analysis of official US government budgetary documents showed upgrades to RAF Lakenheath that could enable nuclear weapons to be moved to the site if required.

Currently, there are around 150 American-controlled B-61 nuclear gravity bombs stationed in Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy and Turkey.

“We are now seeing signs that they may establish nuclear weapons at Lakenheath,” Mr Kristensen told The Telegraph.

He explained the new funding secured for the base would be to “both upgrade the storage facilities for nuclear weapons and add living quarters for personnel to do the mission”.

However, Mr Kristensen warned that Rishi Sunak, the Prime Minister, would have to agree to any nuclear weapons being stored on British soil, as well as Nato because of its nuclear posture in Europe.

He added that any such deployment of nuclear weapons would have to be authorised by the US president.

The Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND) has vowed to stop American nuclear weapons from returning to UK soil. CND warned that if such weapons do return to Britain, it would “make the UK once again a forward nuclear base for the US”.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on August 31, 2023, 04:24
F35s are becoming the workhorse for some countries that can afford them and the US has been allowed to use them from UK aircraft carriers, and jointly train on them, for a while (a unique and new development). Plus, the UK has enough nuclear warheads on their subs (which patrol constantly) to level the globe a few times over. The F35s don't necessarily have any connection with nuclear weapons directly. I think it is all a more general sign of countering the threats from Russia to Europe (rather than about Nuclear war more specifically).

It’s worth bearing in mind that the Telegraph is basically now the Daily Mail with better diction, i.e. a rag I wouldn't even bother to wipe my a*se on.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 31, 2023, 05:10
What F-16s will do for Ukraine (and what they won't)

https://youtu.be/N5hvMECcG7o
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 31, 2023, 05:11
I think it is all a more general sign of countering the threats from Russia to Europe (rather than about Nuclear war more specifically).
I agree. We'll see how it goes.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on August 31, 2023, 10:09
"Ukrainians have exceeded expectations again and again," says NATO chief

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/08/30/exp-amanpour-ukraine-nato-stoltenberg-intw-083001pseg3-cnni-world.cnn
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on August 31, 2023, 21:44
Yes, the sanctions against russia are working
  Berliner Zeitung: "The latest statistics are surprising: in the middle of the Ukraine war, Russia is exporting 334 percent more cheaper fertilizers to Germany. Like gas, just different?"
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/wirtschaft-verantwortung/deutschlands-neue-russland-abhaengigkeit-putins-kriegskasse-wird-gefuellt-li.383611 (https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/wirtschaft-verantwortung/deutschlands-neue-russland-abhaengigkeit-putins-kriegskasse-wird-gefuellt-li.383611)

Due to the disruption of the Nord Streams, Germany is now buying a value-added product from Russia instead of gas. Which "allies" helped Germany so much?
The economy and production chains of the whole world are interconnected. Their destruction is detrimental to all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 01, 2023, 04:24
Russian military death toll in Ukraine rises to 263,490

 8) 8) 8)

The Armed Forces of Ukraine eliminated about 263,490 Russian invaders in Ukraine from February 24, 2022 to September 1, 2023, including 470 invaders in the past day alone.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3755629-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-263490.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3755629-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-263490.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 01, 2023, 04:27
Russia is creating a system of ideological education and militarization of young people in the occupied territories. Schoolchildren are forced to believe that Kyiv started the war. Invaders involved in the invasion of Ukraine give lessons to children.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3755427-russian-fascism-wants-to-educate-ukrainian-children-to-defeat-the-enemy.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3755427-russian-fascism-wants-to-educate-ukrainian-children-to-defeat-the-enemy.html)

I recommend reading this article about Russian Naz.is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on September 01, 2023, 16:08
Yes, there are! But I believe that the real power lies within the individuals, the voters, and that we are the ones who collectively will make a difference. But that means becoming independent thinkers.

My background is that I embraced Buddhism when I was much younger. But I am often not a very good Buddhist. I get angry, I take sides, my ego starts to take over, and I get embroiled in people's dramas. But when I see that happening, I leave the groups and disappear for a while, increase my meditation practice, and loose myself in my creative pursuits. That's why you often see me delete my posts that are not kind or too controversial or disappear from here for a while when I feel I am becoming too involved.

I am not saying that everyone should become a Buddhist (LOL) but its my way of becoming independent again. I also believe that education is important. My ex-father-in-law was an English teacher and he used to say: education, real education, doesn't give you the answers - it teaches you the questions to ask.

I have a lot of respect for you too, Wilm. I find you to be a highly educated and very understanding man and I love reading your posts - and I am sure you know all of this too.

I wrote a lot in the beginning of this thread about not labelling people, not taking sides, and understanding what is REALLY going on in the world. I believe that makes us more and more impervious to being manipulated by greedy or power hungry politicians and leaders.
This is a very strange philosophy during the war. And this philosophy will not save from evil.
Naz.is should be called Naz.is, Russians should be called rashists and orcs. Enemies must be eliminated. Everything is very simple.

I didn't see this before, but I would like to reply.

The Dalai Lama has had direct experience with this when China annexed Tibet when he was a young man, and the Buddhists had to flee the country and settled in India, which by the way was largely responsible for bringing the teachings of Buddhism to the western world. Prior to that, it was mainly isolated to Tibet.  So I wanted to see what he said about war.

Just briefly, he has said different things at different times, depending on different circumstances, whether to flee/walk away or whether to defend. But the bottom line in whatever you choose, is hatred.

In Buddhism, it is the level of hate you have for offenders that you have to let go of. Hatred is the most destruction of emotions, and it will never repair what you have lost or provide the right solutions.

Also remember Gandhi brought down the powerful British empire through peaceful resistance. This may be a different situation, but there are lessons to be learnt from it: ‘If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.’ 

For me personally, I believe its politics and megalomaniacs who cause wars, and they should be the targets (to fix or eliminate, often through the dissemination of truth to the people. The people have so much power.) but not to hate a whole country just because they were manipulated into believing what these leaders told them.

But can you defend your country through love for your country and not hate the other side? That is the difficult part - but something we should all aim for.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on September 01, 2023, 16:48

I didn't see this before, but I would like to reply.

The Dalai Lama has had direct experience with this when China annexed Tibet when he was a young man, and the Buddhists had to flee the country and settled in India, which by the way was largely responsible for bringing the teachings of Buddhism to the western world. Prior to that, it was mainly isolated to Tibet.  So I wanted to see what he said about war.

Just briefly, he has said different things at different times, depending on different circumstances, whether to flee/walk away or whether to defend. But the bottom line in whatever you choose, is hatred.

In Buddhism, it is the level of hate you have for offenders that you have to let go of. Hatred is the most destruction of emotions, and it will never repair what you have lost or provide the right solutions.

Also remember Gandhi brought down the powerful British empire through peaceful resistance. This may be a different situation, but there are lessons to be learnt from it: ‘If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.’ 

For me personally, I believe its politics and megalomaniacs who cause wars, and they should be the targets (to fix or eliminate, often through the dissemination of truth to the people. The people have so much power.) but not to hate a whole country just because they were manipulated into believing what these leaders told them.

But can you defend your country through love for your country and not hate the other side? That is the difficult part - but something we should all aim for.

Annie, respect to you and thank you for the thoughtful wording.
That was the best post on over 50 'pages that I have read here (including mine  ;)).
I agree wholeheartedly. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 02, 2023, 00:16
It is also worth noting that Gandhi wasn't a universal pacifist. The situation with the British Empire was a unique one.

The British were ruling via what has been dubbed Liberal Imperialism. Gandhi was a very intelligent man and saw that contradiction was something he could leverage. The pacifism laid bare the lie of the British that they were paternal benevolent rulers and forced the British to expose the violence which they ruled by in contrast.

I heard a historian discussing Gandhi's letters to people who had asked him for help with their own struggles, and he actually had recommended violent resistance or self-defence in some circumstances.

I believe it was in that interview, and several times subsequently, that I have heard the Indian struggle for independence contrasted very specifically with Russia. To the effect that in Russia the Indians nonviolently protesting would simply have been murdered to the last man. Jallianwala Bagh led to all kinds of hand wringing and an enquiry. Russia levelled Chechnya and is levelling Ukraine without the Russian state batting an eye. When it comes to the effectiveness of pacifism, Russia is the most frequent textbook counter example to India.

The British were trying to appear like a civilising force, Russia has been recruiting from prisons by saying "we particularly want mass murders, we can use your talents in Ukraine".

EDIT: Rereading my post it could sound like I am saying the British were somehow less bad. The British empire was mind bogglingly brutal and it's legacy isn't over. The full extent of the horrors will probably never be known as they were also very thorough in covering it up both at the time and during the collapse. It ran one of the biggest propaganda machines in history. Highly recommend Caroline Elkins' recent work. I am just pointing out that the empire's unique contradictions made pacifism the ideal tool.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on September 02, 2023, 01:50
It is also worth noting that Gandhi wasn't a universal pacifist. The situation with the British Empire was a unique one.

The British were ruling via what has been dubbed Liberal Imperialism. Gandhi was a very intelligent man and saw that contradiction was something he could leverage. The pacifism laid bare the lie of the British that they were paternal benevolent rulers and forced the British to expose the violence which they ruled by in contrast.

I heard a historian discussing Gandhi's letters to people who had asked him for help with their own struggles, and he actually had recommended violent resistance or self-defence in some circumstances.

I believe it was in that interview, and several times subsequently, that I have heard the Indian struggle for independence contrasted very specifically with Russia. To the effect that in Russia the Indians nonviolently protesting would simply have been murdered to the last man. Jallianwala Bagh led to all kinds of hand ringing and an enquiry. Russia levelled Chechnya and is levelling Ukraine without the Russian state batting an eye. When it comes to the effectiveness of pacifism, Russia is the most frequent textbook counter example to India.

The British were trying to appear like a civilising force, Russia has been recruiting from prisons by saying "we particularly want mass murders, we can use your talents in Ukraine".

EDIT: Rereading my post it could sound like I am saying the British were somehow less bad. The British empire was mind bogglingly brutal and it's legacy isn't over. The full extent of the horrors will probably never be known as they were also very thorough in covering it up both at the time and during the collapse. It ran one of the biggest propaganda machines in history. Highly recommend Caroline Elkins' recent work. I am just pointing out that the empire's unique contradictions made pacifism the ideal tool.

True, but not the point I was hoping to 'inspire' (for want of a better word) Stoker. (If that's at all possible :) ) As I said, it [Ukraine/Russia] may be a different situation, but the underlying attitude can be the same. That is, it's not the people of that country, its the 'empire', that he should hate, if he needs to hate anything.

 ‘If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.’
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 02, 2023, 02:40
True, but not the point I was hoping to 'inspire' (for want of a better word) Stoker. (If that's at all possible :) ) As I said, it [Ukraine/Russia] may be a different situation, but the underlying attitude can be the same. That is, it's not the people of that country, its the 'empire', that he should hate, if he needs to hate anything.

 ‘If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.’

I get it. My point is that if pacifism wasn’t the solution to his particular problem he may have said something different. His words were morally correct in that they were for the right cause, and pragmatic in that they were the best way to defeat the particular enemy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 02, 2023, 03:37
In Buddhism, it is the level of hate you have for offenders that you have to let go of. Hatred is the most destruction of emotions, and it will never repair what you have lost or provide the right solutions.

(https://r6z4d5g2.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/straus_golovu-v-pesok.jpg)

This is your Buddhism, look at the photo.

Also remember Gandhi brought down the powerful British empire through peaceful resistance. This may be a different situation, but there are lessons to be learnt from it: ‘If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.’ 
:o :o :o ::) ::) ::) :'( :'( :'(
Your problem, like the problem of EU citizens, is that you idealize Russians. You don't know who the Russians are. Russians are wild and uneducated people of Asian origin. Russians do not have their own history, they constantly steal someone else's history and appropriate it for themselves. Russians are barbarians and orcs, a crowd that wants blood and robbery. Throughout the history of the Russian empire, Russians have been living in their own lies, and throughout their history, Russians have constantly attacked other peoples, destroyed them, robbed them. There are many occupied peoples in the Russian Empire, but they are all of Asian origin. Ethnic Russians are also of Asian origin, but are a bit like Slavs, because they have some Slavic blood in them.
Don't compare savages with the British.

but not to hate a whole country just because they were manipulated into believing what these leaders told them.
:o :o :o
If the Russian tsars (and putin too) did not start wars and murders, the Russian people would get rid of such a tsar. Once again, the Russians are a crowd of brutal orcs.

But can you defend your country through love for your country and not hate the other side? That is the difficult part - but something we should all aim for.
Remember World War II. The Naz.is were not loved, they were killed.

‘If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.’
And there is also no need to try to compare Russians with German *. Unlike the Russians, the Germans were educated and did not seek to destroy everything and kill everyone. The Russian Empire is a bunch of uneducated and evil orcs of Asian origin.
You need to watch horror films about zombies, all you will see is the truth, the truth about Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 02, 2023, 03:40
True, but not the point I was hoping to 'inspire' (for want of a better word) Stoker. (If that's at all possible :) ) As I said, it [Ukraine/Russia] may be a different situation, but the underlying attitude can be the same. That is, it's not the people of that country, its the 'empire', that he should hate, if he needs to hate anything.

 ‘If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.’

I get it. My point is that if pacifism wasn’t the solution to his particular problem he may have said something different. His words were morally correct in that they were for the right cause, and pragmatic in that they were the best way to defeat the particular enemy.
+100
Annie needs to come to Ukraine, to the line of fire. Very quickly Annie will forget what Buddhism is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 02, 2023, 04:11
During the Middle Ages, Kyivan Rus', and now Ukraine (Kyivan Rus' descendant) defends Europe from the evil mob of Asian troops. This is the truth, the historical truth. And this is well understood in the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on September 02, 2023, 04:23
The Russian Empire is a bunch of uneducated and evil orcs of Asian origin.
You need to watch horror films about zombies, all you will see is the truth, the truth about Russians.

What do you think of Alexei Navalny, Stoke?

(PS. Its not a trick question, I am just interested.)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on September 02, 2023, 05:21

Annie needs to come to Ukraine, to the line of fire. Very quickly Annie will forget what Buddhism is.

You should also
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 02, 2023, 07:24
The Russian Empire is a bunch of uneducated and evil orcs of Asian origin.
You need to watch horror films about zombies, all you will see is the truth, the truth about Russians.

What do you think of Alexei Navalny, Stoke?

(PS. Its not a trick question, I am just interested.)
Alexei Navalny is a rashist.

If you asked about Alexander Nevzorov, it would be a more difficult question. This person says the right words, but can even a Russian like Nevzorov be trusted, this is a difficult question. Even people like Nevzorov are not trusted in Ukraine, history has shown that the Russians end up cheating.

As for Alexei Navalny, he and those like him create the appearance of "good Russians", but if Alexei Navalny gets power, he will eventually give this power to people like putin.

If Alexei Navalny was not profitable or dangerous for Putin, he would have been killed long ago. The Russians create for the world the appearance that they have an "opposition", but this is all just an appearance, an illusion. Alexei Navalny plays a certain role, depending on the development of the situation, perhaps the Russian regime will use it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 03, 2023, 02:09
Musk’s new Twitter policies helped spread Russian propaganda, E.U. says

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/01/musk-twitter-x-russia-propaganda/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/01/musk-twitter-x-russia-propaganda/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 03, 2023, 02:47
Pope Francis continues the war against peace and democracy. Yesterday he said that the Mongol Empire should be revived. The Russians are the heirs of the Mongols, which means that this is a direct support of the Russian Naz.is.
How much money do Russians and Chinese pay him?

Moreover, I have come to Mongolia as you are marking an anniversary that is important for you, 860 years since the birth of Genghis Khan. The fact that the empire could embrace such distant and varied lands over the centuries bears witness to the remarkable ability of your ancestors to acknowledge the outstanding qualities of the peoples present in its immense territory and to put those qualities at the service of a common development. This model should be valued and re-proposed in our own day. May Heaven grant that today, on this earth devastated by countless conflicts, there be a renewal, respectful of international laws, of the conditions of what was once the pax mongolica, namely, the absence of conflicts.

https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2023/09/02/230902a.html

The number of people killed by these Mongols is of no concern to Pope Francis. And how many peoples were under the Mongol occupation too.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 03, 2023, 03:25
Pope Francis did not meet with the Dalai Lama.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 03, 2023, 23:22
Fascinating map of European ancestry, proving that all those nationalistic ideologies based on "pure" nations, we see emerging everywhere, are only a bunch of BS.
No nation is pure. Many have more in common than the nationalistic history manuals dictate.

Interesting to observe the Celtic genes, found in most of Europe, especially in Western Europe (in red).

Also, the Austrians have more in common with the Czechs, Slovaks, and Hungarians than with the Germans.

Take note of the difference between russians and Ukrainians: while both have a strong Slavic component (yellow), russians have a significant amount of Asian genes (purple), similar to the Fins and the Baltics. Ukrainians are missing these Uralo-Finnic/Siberian genes. They have more of the Mediterranean and Caucasian genes (green, orange, black). So much for the propaganda, claiming that they are one compact nation!
Also, the Poles are "more Slavs" than the russians  ;)

(https://www.dnaweekly.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/content-a-map-of-europe-based-on-haplogroups-1.png.webp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 03:02
Zero Talent, your map is propaganda. She claims that Russians and Ukrainians are one people. All Russian propagandists and trolls will agree with you.  >:(
You can see for yourself that only part of the Russian empire is shown on your map. Part of the territory of modern Russia used to be part of Kyivan Rus'. Kyivan Rus' is a state in which Ukrainians lived, Russians did not yet exist in nature.
Cities such as Novgorod, Smolensk, Vladimir, Rostov were not originally Russian, they were Ukrainian and were part of Kyivan Rus'. Naturally, the blood of people in these cities even now has much in common with Ukrainian blood. The cities I listed were occupied by Muscovia.

Moscovia (region)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscovia_(region) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscovia_(region))

Moscovia or Muscovy is a historical region in Central russia. The name derived from Moscow and the Moskva river. It was known to its neighbors through the Russian Moscovian state that emerged in the 13th century. Finno-Ugric tribes lived in the Moscow area.

Kyivan Rus'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27)

Kyivan Rus' was a state and later an amalgam of principalities in Eastern and Northern Europe from the late 9th to the mid-13th century.

Initially, the territory of the future Moscovia was also under the control of Kyivan Rus', but the main population there was not Slavic. Kyiv sent the guilty Ukrainians there, who eventually added a little Slavic blood to the Russians.

"russians have a significant amount of Asian genes (purple), similar to the Fins and the Baltics."
I agree with this phrase.

But, in order to see the composition of Russian blood, you need to take for analysis the territory of Muscovia without the cities I have indicated. Without cities Novgorod, Smolensk, Vladimir, Rostov. And then we will see that Russians are more Asian by blood than Slavs.

Also, only a piece of the Russian empire is shown on your map. Look at the whole map of russia, and you will see that the Russians have occupied a lot of Asian peoples who have nothing to do with the Slavs at all. Therefore, when say Russian, by genes, race and ethnicity, this are Asians. And if you look at the Russians who live on the territory of the former Moscovia, it means that this is a person who has more Asian blood than Slavic.

And once again, any analysis should start with Kyivan Rus'. And Kyivan Rus' is a Ukrainian state inhabited by Ukrainians.

It also follows from your map that Ukrainians are Slavs. This is true.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 03:17
I'll add more. From 1240 to 1480 Moscow was part of the Mongol Empire. It also added Asian blood to the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 03:30
When Kyiv stood, there was no such city as Moscow even in the project.

 ;D ;D ;D

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMNFMkjXEAEAjKy?format=jpg&name=medium)

https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1496115593149358081
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 09:27
I know that in 1050 Moscow was a forest when Kyiv was among the largest European cities, with over 40k inhabitants.
You already mentioned it yourself on multiple occations.

Just pay attention to what I wrote. This not propaganda, but science.

I specifically said that russian and Ukrainians are NOT the same people.
The map above is cropped, but on Eupedia.com you can find wider maps for each haplogroup.

Below is the Finno-Uralic/Siberian haplogroup, present in russians, but not that much in Ukrainians.

Check also the spread of all slavic haplogroups combined.

Both Ukrainians and russian have slavic components in their genome, but the Poles have the most.  ;)
I also said that Ukrainins have a significant amount of Mediterranean greco-roman ancestry, while russians have less.

Maybe you can better understand that while most modern nations have their specific mix, they also have A LOT in common, especially first tier neighbors. This is only normal because of migration and intermarriage throughout history.

No nation is "pure" anything.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml (https://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml)

PS. Also note that these maps are correctly showing Crimea as part of Ukraine.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on September 04, 2023, 11:53
I know that in 1050 Moscow was a forest when Kyiv was among the largest European cities, with over 40k inhabitants.
You already mentioned it yourself on multiple occations.

Just pay attention to what I wrote. This not propaganda, but science.

I specifically said that russian and Ukrainians are NOT the same people.
The map above is cropped, but on Eupedia.com you can find wider maps for each haplogroup.

Below is the Finno-Uralic/Siberian haplogroup, present in russians, but not that much in Ukrainians.

Check also the spread of all slavic haplogroups combined.

Both Ukrainians and russian have slavic components in their genome, but the Poles have the most.  ;)
I also said that Ukrainins have a significant amount of Mediterranean greco-roman ancestry, while russians have less.

Maybe you can better understand that while most modern nations have their specific mix, they also have A LOT in common, especially first tier neighbors. This is only normal because of migration and intermarriage throughout history.

No nation is "pure" anything.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml (https://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml)

PS. Also note that these maps are correctly showing Crimea as part of Ukraine.  ;)

Very interesting website which I didn't know so far. Thanks a lot for this information, Zero!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 12:03
Very interesting website which I didn't know so far. Thanks a lot for this information, Zero!

You're welcome. Please take note that the Swedes and the Norwegians are more germanic that the Germans! 🙂
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 12:28
Zero Talent, if we are talking about the nationality and race of Russians, then we need to decide who these Russians are and where they live. This is what I wrote about. Russia is an empire and Russians by nationality are only a part of this empire. Therefore, I think that in your original map, the nationality of the Russians and the percentage of other nationalities in it was not determined correctly. Most of russia is inhabited by Asians, who are unlikely to have Slavic blood in their blood. In the territories previously owned by Kyivan Rus', there will be more people in whose blood there is more of the Slavic race. But on the territory of the former Moscovia, mostly Russians by nationality lived and live. And only on the territory of Moscovia you need to look at what genes are in the blood of those people (these will be Russians by nationality).
If you can use these maps to determine what is there by genes in the territory of the former Moscovia, publish the results. But I don't think such studies have been done. I do not know how these maps were compiled, but Russians by nationality have very little Slavic blood.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 12:36
(https://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37652.0;attach=20016;image)

Slavs live throughout the Russian Empire, as follows from your photo. But this is a lie.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 12:40
Zero Talent, if we are talking about the nationality and race of Russians, then we need to decide who these Russians are and where they live. This is what I wrote about. Russia is an empire and Russians by nationality are only a part of this empire. Therefore, I think that in your original map, the nationality of the Russians and the percentage of other nationalities in it was not determined correctly. Most of russia is inhabited by Asians, who are unlikely to have Slavic blood in their blood. In the territories previously owned by Kyivan Rus', there will be more people in whose blood there is more of the Slavic race. But on the territory of the former Moscovia, mostly Russians by nationality lived and live. And only on the territory of Moscovia you need to look at what genes are in the blood of those people (these will be Russians by nationality).
If you can use these maps to determine what is there by genes in the territory of the former Moscovia, publish the results.

You can check the map with the spread of slavs (in yellow). You obviously see how the spread slowly fades away and then stops somewhere in Asia.
Beyond that, the population density is decreasing, so the non-slavic part will not contribute that much to the mix, even if it has a wide geographical spread.
Similarly, small amounts of slavic ancestry is also found in Italy, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Irak, Iran...

... and it's not a lie. It's science. It's the opposite of propaganda.


What the first map shows is an average for each modern nation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 12:49
What the first map is shows is an average for each modern nation.
+100

Therefore, I say that in order to analyze the Russian empire and determine precisely Russians by nationality, it is necessary to analyze not all the occupied peoples, but only those people who live on the territory of the former Moscovia. But this card will not allow you to do this, because. this map thinks that many Slavs live on the territory of Moscovia. Science is good, but when it comes to russia, Russian propaganda is involved, and scientists give wrong results. Do you believe Russians? Who made this map? Who gave data on the regions of russia?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 12:50
Do not believe Russian scientists, they are rashists and obey the KGB. All this data is used by putin to justify the occupation of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 12:52
What the first map is shows is an average for each modern nation.
+100

Therefore, I say that in order to analyze the Russian empire and determine precisely Russians by nationality, it is necessary to analyze not all the occupied peoples, but only those people who live on the territory of the former Moscovia. But this card will not allow you to do this, because. this map thinks that many Slavs live on the territory of Moscovia. Science is good, but when it comes to russia, Russian propaganda is involved, and scientists give wrong results. Do you believe Russians? Who made this map? Who gave data on the regions of russia?

The average is not an average of "pure Slavs" with "pure Siberians" or "pure Germanics" for example. Each individual has a mix of multiple ancestries, in various percentages, including you and me.
That's something you didn't get.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 12:53
Zero Talent, re-read my first response to your map. I gave links to historical facts, and the facts are that Russians are Asians. There cannot be much Slavic blood in the blood of Russians. If the maps do not show this, then the Russians falsified them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 12:55
Zero Talent, these maps could not have been made without data obtained from the Russians. Any data received from the Russians is a lie and propaganda. Do not believe these maps for the region of russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 12:59
There cannot be much Slavic blood in the blood of Russians. If the maps do not show this, then the Russians falsified them.

Actually there is slavic blood in russians. Less than in Poles, but there is.  ;D Russian propaganda would never dare to say that!  ;D
These maps are not made by russians.
They are using ancestry data collected by American companies (23andme with Google as a shareholder, etc). Check the references on eupedia.com. These are reputable studies, with credibility beyond any doubt.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 13:03
There cannot be much Slavic blood in the blood of Russians. If the maps do not show this, then the Russians falsified them.

Actually there is slavic blood in russians. Less than in Poles, but there is.
These maps are not made by russians.
They are using ancestry data collected by American companies (like 23andme). Check the references on eupedia.com.
There are many reputable studies, with credibility beyond any doubt.
Of course, there is Slavic blood in Russians by nationality, but there is not much of it. This blood was given to them by those Ukrainians who were evicted to the territory of Moscovia from Kyivan Rus'.
You understand that any data from russia could only be obtained through official means. Do you think the KGB gave the US reliable information? Do not make me laugh.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 13:10
There cannot be much Slavic blood in the blood of Russians. If the maps do not show this, then the Russians falsified them.

Actually there is slavic blood in russians. Less than in Poles, but there is.
These maps are not made by russians.
They are using ancestry data collected by American companies (like 23andme). Check the references on eupedia.com.
There are many reputable studies, with credibility beyond any doubt.
Of course, there is Slavic blood in Russians by nationality, but there is not much of it. This blood was given to them by those Ukrainians who were evicted to the territory of Moscovia from Kyivan Rus'.
You understand that any data from russia could only be obtained through official means. Do you think the KGB gave the US reliable information? Do not make me laugh.

Did you ever take a genetic test? I did. I also have some slavic ancestry.  :)
You spit in a vial and then send the vial for analysis to a lab belonging to the American company.
So the KGB replaced the russian vials with a mix of Ukranian and Finnish spit, to fool the world scientists? Don't make ME laugh!

I suggest you take genetic test to see it for yourself. You will be surprised!: ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 13:13
There cannot be much Slavic blood in the blood of Russians. If the maps do not show this, then the Russians falsified them.

Actually there is slavic blood in russians. Less than in Poles, but there is.
These maps are not made by russians.
They are using ancestry data collected by American companies (like 23andme). Check the references on eupedia.com.
There are many reputable studies, with credibility beyond any doubt.
Of course, there is Slavic blood in Russians by nationality, but there is not much of it. This blood was given to them by those Ukrainians who were evicted to the territory of Moscovia from Kyivan Rus'.
You understand that any data from russia could only be obtained through official means. Do you think the KGB gave the US reliable information? Do not make me laugh.

Did you ever take a genetic test? I did.
You spit in a vial and then send the vial for analysis, done in a lab belonging to the American company.
So the KGB replaced the russian vials with Ukranian spit, to fool the world scientists? Don't make ME laugh!

I suggest you take genetic test to see it for yourself. You will be surprised!: ;)
1. The KGB selected the right people for analysis.
2. These people were originally tested for the composition of their blood.
Or do you want to say that American scientists walked around the territory of the former Moscovia and random people spat into the vial?
3. Many Ukrainians and mestizos (a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian blood) live on the territory of the Russian empire, and there are millions of them. It is not difficult for the KGB to choose the right people.
4. The KGB does a lot of things that we don't know about here.

As for Ukraine, I have no objections. I see that the Ukrainians are Slavs, there is not only yellow refers to the Slavs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 13:26

1. The KGB selected the right people for analysis.
2. These people were originally tested for the composition of their blood.
Or do you want to say that American scientists walked around the territory of the former Moscovia and random people spat into the vial?
3. Many Ukrainians and mestizos (a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian blood) live on the territory of the Russian empire, and there are millions of them. It is not difficult for the KGB to choose the right people.
4. The KGB does a lot of things that we don't know about here.

As for Ukraine, I have no objections. I see that the Ukrainians are Slavs, there is not only yellow refers to the Slavs.

Again. It's not a blood test, but a spit test.

So, the KGB hijacked the vials and mixed in the spit from Ukrainians with spit from Finnish people, right?
And the lab was unable to detect the fraud and the outliers, despite all their modern chromosome analysis tools, right?
Comon man!
 ::)

Just do your own test and report back.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 13:33
Russia is a country that stole someone else's history and falsified its history. I am 100% sure that the Russians did everything to ensure that their false story was confirmed by false DNA tests.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 13:34

1. The KGB selected the right people for analysis.
2. These people were originally tested for the composition of their blood.
Or do you want to say that American scientists walked around the territory of the former Moscovia and random people spat into the vial?
3. Many Ukrainians and mestizos (a mixture of Russian and Ukrainian blood) live on the territory of the Russian empire, and there are millions of them. It is not difficult for the KGB to choose the right people.
4. The KGB does a lot of things that we don't know about here.

As for Ukraine, I have no objections. I see that the Ukrainians are Slavs, there is not only yellow refers to the Slavs.

Again. It's not a blood test, but a spit test.

So, the KGB hijacked the vials and mixed in the spit from Ukrainians with spit from Finnish people, right?
And the lab was unable to detect the fraud and the outliers, despite all their modern chromosome analysis tools, right?
Comon man!
 ::)

Just do your own test and report back.
You don't read me well. The Russians didn't mix anything. They initially chose the right people for analysis.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 13:36
Zero Talent, it was a very interesting conversation. And your data is very interesting. And I also saw Russian propaganda, and it's good that I learned a lot of new things.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 13:38

As for Ukraine, I have no objections. I see that the Ukrainians are Slavs, there is not only yellow refers to the Slavs.
Yellow combines ALL slavic ancestries.

You may refer at the blue part. That's not slav, but the neolithic Cucuteni-Trypillian culture, present in the area below, even before the Bronze-Age indo-european invasions (slavs inclusive)
Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was the oldest confirmed European civilization.

Cucuteni is in today's Romania and Trypillia in today's Ukraine, near Kyiv, where specific artifacts were found in abundance.

You may have some Cucuteni-Trypillian genes mixed with slav genes yourself.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on September 04, 2023, 16:47
Very interesting website which I didn't know so far. Thanks a lot for this information, Zero!

You're welcome. Please take note that the Swedes and the Norwegians are more germanic that the Germans! 🙂

I'm happy to take note, but it's nothing new to me and it doesn't bother me.

I live here very close to a stretch of land called "Angeln". There is also "Haitabu", one of the largest Viking settlements of that time. The Angles and the Saxons are the ones who settled Anglo-Saxony - that where Great Britain is today.

My hairdresser is Syrian, my dentist is Polish, as is my orthopedist and the lady who cleans my office. One of my customers is Turkish, one Persian, one Eastern Austrian. I even have Bavarian customers... ;-)...

One of my parcel delivery men is Russian, one Ukrainian, one Iraqi. The cook in my favorite Italian restaurant is Tunisian, the owner is from Italy. I like to go to France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Denmark, Sweden, USA, Italy…

Two of my grandparents are from what is now Poland. Some of the ancestors were Huguenots from France.

I could go on for hours.

The world is merging. Globalization actually knows no borders. Not in the animal world either, by the way. Bullfrogs from America are displacing the local species in Karlsruhe. Lupines in New Zealand are displacing local plants. Sea spiders from Russia conquer foreign sea areas, etc., etc.

Whoever still believes that Germany must remain German, Russia Russian and Italy Italian…, has missed something. And who still believes that women and young girls are not allowed to have a share in education and culture, as well! We live today and not in the past. This "today" also includes a Ukraine and not a tsarist empire - by the way…



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 04, 2023, 16:54
Wilm, you wrote everything beautifully and correctly.
I discussed the issues of Russian informational and historical weapons. For Russians, history and genes are weapons.
But where there is no russia, there is no lie.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 04, 2023, 17:56
Very interesting website which I didn't know so far. Thanks a lot for this information, Zero!

You're welcome. Please take note that the Swedes and the Norwegians are more germanic that the Germans! 🙂

I'm happy to take note, but it's nothing new to me and it doesn't bother me.

Wilm, I never expected it would bother you. It's just a fun fact.
Counterintuitively, Bulgarians are "less slavs" than Romanians! Who would have thought? 🤔

Bottom line, no nation is "pure".

Moreover, pan-slavism, russkiy mir, pan-turkism or any other "pan" movement are just myths.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 05, 2023, 03:02
Bottom line, no nation is "pure".
Nationality is determined by the predominant blood. No one says that there are nations in the blood of which only pure blood. It was only the Naz.is who promoted this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 05, 2023, 03:05
russkiy mir
This is not a myth, but a political imperial doctrine. It has nothing to do with blood and nationality. More details here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_world)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on September 05, 2023, 04:17
Very interesting website which I didn't know so far. Thanks a lot for this information, Zero!

You're welcome. Please take note that the Swedes and the Norwegians are more germanic that the Germans! 🙂

I'm happy to take note, but it's nothing new to me and it doesn't bother me.

Wilm, I never expected it would bother you. It's just a fun fact.


Yes, I know, Zero!  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 05, 2023, 05:12
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/656/cpsprodpb/A5C6/production/_130983424_d2ea51e7-3006-4f52-9cdc-252fdf6d8e02.jpg)

 ??? :o

Scholz blocks the supply of long-range Taurus missiles to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 05, 2023, 09:14
Bottom line, no nation is "pure".
Nationality is determined by the predominant blood. No one says that there are nations in the blood of which only pure blood. It was only the Naz.is who promoted this.

Wrong. You are missing the point. The concept of "nation" only appeared in the late 18th century. Even today the concept of nationality is ambiguous. In some countries, nationality is determined by the passport and it's the same as the citizenship (like in the US, for example), in other countries, the nationality is determined by the mother tongue or the so-called ethnicity (e.g. the current president of Romania is a romanian citizen of german nationality)

Look at the maps I shared with you.

Most of Western Europe has predominantly Celtic "blood", and yet neither the French, nor the Spanish, nor the Portuguese consider themselves Celts. Portugal has the celtic "gal" in the name coming from the celtic Gauls, Spain has the province of Galicia, drawing its name from the same Celtic Gauls, the French official genesis relies on a gaul-roman mix.

There is no dominant Spanish blood, nor dominant French blood, nor dominant Portuguese blood. Instead there is a specific mix of various "bloods" in each modern nation.

Moreover, countries like Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Albania... don't even have a clearly "dominant" blood. They are a melting pot of many other european "bloods", from this point of view, being among the "most european" nations.
Despite not having a clearly dominant blood, there is Bulgarian nation, a Romanian nation, a Serbian nation, an Albanian nation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 05, 2023, 10:25
Zero Talent, nation and ethnicity are two different things. Determining ethnicity from a passport is nonsense. DNA analysis can determine what ethnicity a person is. If your maps do not show this, then you need to look for other sources.
This is in scientific terms. And if you approach the issue from the point of view of law, citizenship in your passport refers you to a German or a French.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 05, 2023, 10:28
Most of Western Europe has predominantly Celtic "blood", and yet neither the French, nor the Spanish, nor the Portuguese consider themselves Celts.
If the French, Spaniards and Portuguese look different, then they have a different ethnicity. DNA analysis will show this.
If the French, Spaniards and Portuguese do not differ in appearance and their DNA analysis is similar, then these are people of the same blood.

Genealogical DNA test
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogical_DNA_test)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 05, 2023, 11:34
Zero Talent, nation and ethnicity are two different things. Determining ethnicity from a passport is nonsense. DNA analysis can determine what ethnicity a person is. If your maps do not show this, then you need to look for other sources.
This is in scientific terms. And if you approach the issue from the point of view of law, citizenship in your passport refers you to a German or a French.

You still don't get it. I never said that the passport is determining the ethnicity, or the other way around.
What I said that in countries like the US the nationality and the citizenship are the same, while in other countries, citizenship and nationality can be different, thus making the rather recent concept of "nation" ambiguous.
And I gave the example of Klaus Werner Iohannis, the president of Romania who is officially a romanian citizen of german nationality.

The maps above ARE based on DNA analysis.

Too bad they tell you a different story than the one you grew up with!
But these are facts, while what you learned from nationalistic history manuals is, to a large extent, just national myths or nationalistic propaganda.  ::)

Again, there is no French "blood", there is no Spanish "blood", there is no Portuguese "blood", there is no Italian "blood". Each modern nation has a mix of various "bloods", present throughout the whole Europe and even beyond.
Besides, the nations were not created based on "looks".

And one more time: do a genetic test on yourself, and report back your results. I am sure you are in for a surprise.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 05, 2023, 11:53
Too bad they tell you a different story than the one you grew up with!
I disagree with this statement.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 06, 2023, 03:03
On August 23, while carrying out a combat mission on one of the directions of the front, the fighters of the 12th special purpose brigade of the "Azov", in order to improve the tactical position, conducted a carefully planned operation in advance, as a result of which 4 Russian positions were taken by storm.

https://youtu.be/AxL7YcdM2RY
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 06, 2023, 03:08
About Russian crimes.

The Never-Ending Nightmare of Ukraine’s Dam Disaster
Environmentally, economically and in terms of pure human suffering, the destruction of the Kakhovka dam unleashed untold damage. Months later, many communities are still reeling.


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/03/world/europe/ukraine-dam-flooding-damage.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/03/world/europe/ukraine-dam-flooding-damage.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 06, 2023, 08:54
Russia hits Kostiantynivka (Ukraine) killing at least 16 people.

https://youtu.be/vogf24QwUm8 (https://youtu.be/vogf24QwUm8)

Quote from Zelenskyy: "When anyone in the world still tries to deal with anything of Russian nature, it means turning a blind eye to reality. The audacity of evil. The audacity of meanness. Full-scale inhumanity.

By now, Russian terrorists' artillery has killed 16 people in the town of Kostiantynivka, Donetsk Oblast. It was an ordinary market. Shops. A pharmacy. People who did nothing wrong. Many were wounded. Unfortunately, the number of people killed and injured may increase."

Russians are orcs who only know how to fight against women and children.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Forgiss on September 06, 2023, 10:02
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.


Here, it is almost a requirement... :(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 08, 2023, 03:17
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/07/politics/elon-musk-biography-walter-isaacson-ukraine-starlink/index.html

Elon Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast last year to disrupt a Ukrainian sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet, according to an excerpt adapted from Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the eccentric billionaire titled “Elon Musk.”

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 08, 2023, 03:19
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/06/europe/russia-aircraft-car-tires-ukraine-drones-intl-hnk (https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/06/europe/russia-aircraft-car-tires-ukraine-drones-intl-hnk)

Russia is covering aircraft with car tires, potentially to protect them from Ukrainian drones

 ;D ;D ;D ;D


Russian aircraft will now burn better.  8)



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 08, 2023, 03:27
Chinese singers came to the occupied Ukrainian territory to support the Russian murderers. Russian songs are sung on the ruins of a theater in Mariupol.

https://www.facebook.com/1090077030/videos/1957610274632108/ (https://www.facebook.com/1090077030/videos/1957610274632108/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on September 09, 2023, 01:27
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/07/politics/elon-musk-biography-walter-isaacson-ukraine-starlink/index.html

Elon Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast last year to disrupt a Ukrainian sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet, according to an excerpt adapted from Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the eccentric billionaire titled “Elon Musk.”

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Again, fake after fake and you broadcast them all here.
Maybe it’s better to read Elon Musk himself?
"There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate Starlink all the way to Sevastopol.
The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at anchor.
If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation.
"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1699917639043404146
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 09, 2023, 06:11
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/07/politics/elon-musk-biography-walter-isaacson-ukraine-starlink/index.html

Elon Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast last year to disrupt a Ukrainian sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet, according to an excerpt adapted from Walter Isaacson’s new biography of the eccentric billionaire titled “Elon Musk.”

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Again, fake after fake and you broadcast them all here.
Maybe it’s better to read Elon Musk himself?
"There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate Starlink all the way to Sevastopol.
The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at anchor.
If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation.
"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1699917639043404146

I don't understand this exchange. You both just stated the pretty much same thing.

A request was made which Musk denied preventing an attack on Russia's fleet.

One thinks it was morally right one thinks it was wrong. Which part is fake? The part where he said it was "secret"? I mean it was in the sense that the broader public is only hearing about it now.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 09, 2023, 06:12
...
Maybe it’s better to read Elon Musk himself?...
Given his track record this is the worst idea of all if you want the truth.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on September 09, 2023, 09:02
Which part is fake?
How can you turn off something that was not turned on? Of course this is another fake!
Take a look at the Starlink network coverage map:
(https://i.postimg.cc/xd3CW8Xj/Starlink.jpg)

If I choose who to believe, cnn or Musk, I trust the latter more. But you can trust cnn. I no longer see the point in arguing about matters of faith. The only thing I want to say is that you should not believe any propaganda from any country involved in the conflict.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 09, 2023, 09:06
Which part is fake?
How can you turn off something that was not turned on? Of course this is another fake!
Take a look at the Starlink network coverage map:
(https://i.postimg.cc/xd3CW8Xj/Starlink.jpg)
Okay, got ya, I understand the disagreement now. They were asking for it to be extended, which Musk refused to do, rather than actively turning it off. It still prevented the attack, but I can see it is different.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 09:54
Elon Musk is a friend of the Russians and the Russian empire. He also works for putin. He has already held a referendum on the territorial integrity of Ukraine on Twitter. Believing what Elon Musk says is the same as believing what Trump says, for example. Naturally, this Russian agent will deny a lot.
As for the rashists and Russian trolls, they support people like Elon Musk.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 10:04
I understand the disagreement now. They were asking for it to be extended, which Musk refused to do, rather than actively turning it off. It still prevented the attack, but I can see it is different.
"Elon Musk secretly ordered his engineers to turn off his company’s Starlink satellite communications network near the Crimean coast"

We are not talking about Crimea as a land area, we are talking about the Black Sea near Crimea. And yes, this Elon Musk is doing a lot for the benefit of Russian terrorists.
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

He's probably working on russia's support for Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 09, 2023, 10:06
Which part is fake?
How can you turn off something that was not turned on? Of course this is another fake!
Take a look at the Starlink network coverage map:
(https://i.postimg.cc/xd3CW8Xj/Starlink.jpg)
Okay, got ya, I understand the disagreement now. They were asking for it to be extended, which Musk refused to do, rather than actively turning it off. It still prevented the attack, but I can see it is different.

In fact, it is rather likely that Musk is afraid that the russians will target his satellite fleet, if he allows it to be used in areas occupied by russia.
His appeasement tweets are triggered by self interest, by fears for for his property integrity, by business interests, not by his grandstanding concern for world peace, he wants the public to believe.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 10:09
(https://i.ibb.co/k21Xv8z/image.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 10:11
Zero Talent,  ::) ::)
better start with the fact that Musk is a Trump fan.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 10:12
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71RlBrmDy+L._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 09, 2023, 10:13
Zero Talent,  ::) ::)
better start with the fact that Musk is a Trump fan.

Good to see that you finally realized how dangerous trump is for Ukraine's future.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 10:17
Zero Talent,  ::) ::)
better start with the fact that Musk is a Trump fan.

Good to see that you finally realized how dangerous trump is for Ukraine's future.  ;)
I believe in the Republican Party. As I already wrote, Trump is just a clown who brings the Republicans to power.
I am very dissatisfied with the policies of the Democrats. We need more sanctions against Russians. Ukraine needs F16, needs long-range missiles, needs missiles with cluster munitions. Lend-Lease didn't start working under Biden. I think Democrats are cowards.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 10:22
Germany, Magdeburg. A good gift for Ukraine. Germans, great!

https://twitter.com/i/status/1700190971051327683
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on September 09, 2023, 11:34
Elon Musk: "I’ve donated $100M to Ukraine, how much have you donated?"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1650008972865224704

Elon Musk is a friend of the Russians and the Russian empire. He also works for putin.

Your gratitude is limitless!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 09, 2023, 12:04
Elon Musk: "I’ve donated $100M to Ukraine, how much have you donated?"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1650008972865224704

Elon Musk is a friend of the Russians and the Russian empire. He also works for putin.

Your gratitude is limitless!
Again, trusting Elon Musk about anything is a bad mistake.

He is a total BS artist and you can bet he didn't give anything without getting more back in return.

This is a guy who wont even pay rent or severance his workers are legally entitled to.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 12:21
A cartoon has already been made about Elon Musk, showing how everything really happened.
 >:( >:( >:(

https://youtu.be/txSxSHHqOJo (https://youtu.be/txSxSHHqOJo)

Maximum repost!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 09, 2023, 13:23

I believe in the Republican Party. As I already wrote, Trump is just a clown who brings the Republicans to power.

Believing that a party led by a clown will give US, Ukraine and the world anything but a circus is highly delusional!  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 09, 2023, 15:11
From this:
https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/07/elon-musk-ordered-starlink-turned-off-ukraine-offensive-biography

Sounds like stocker was more accurate and he did actually turn  it off during an operation. They were pleading with him to turn it back on.

Seems like he wasn't interested in helping Ukraine repel Russia as a whole but just wanted to "give" Russia a particular amount of Ukraine's territory. He thought Ukraine was going too far in beating back Russia as much as they did. The guy's Messiah complex is insane.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 09, 2023, 15:37

I believe in the Republican Party. As I already wrote, Trump is just a clown who brings the Republicans to power.

Believing that a party led by a clown will give US, Ukraine and the world anything but a circus is highly delusional!  ::)
You see for yourself that the Democrats are cowards and impotent. There are only two parties in the USA, there is not much choice.
In any case, if the Democrats cannot cope with the Russians before the elections, then power must be given to the Republicans.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 10, 2023, 01:40
That's a very odd take. Sorry the war has been politicized in the US with the Republican base taking the anti Ukraine stance. The few Republican senators who still support will quickly bend the knee for the nutters. As always. Supporting worse because you think the other option is bad makes no sense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 10, 2023, 02:12
Republican base taking the anti Ukraine stance.
I think this is not true. There is a small percentage of Republicans who say anti-Ukrainian words. But, I prefer to look not at what they say, but at what they do. Trump can say whatever he wants, but if military aid to Ukraine increases and more sanctions are imposed on the Russians and Chinese, it will be right.
The Republicans want to impose sanctions on China, and I support that. As for the Democrats, I mostly see only beautiful words.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 10, 2023, 04:24
World leaders at the Group of 20 summit in New Delhi adopted a declaration that avoided directly criticizing Russia for its invasion of Ukraine
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/10/russia-ukraine-war-news/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/10/russia-ukraine-war-news/)

This is the result of the policy of the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on September 10, 2023, 06:12
Interesting maps Zero, thank you.

Also very interesting to learn that Ukrainian people are genetically not as strongly related to Russia as Putin keeps claiming.

Ukraine must win, will join both NATO and the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on September 10, 2023, 09:29
Interesting maps Zero, thank you.

Also very interesting to learn that Ukrainian people are genetically not as strongly related to Russia as Putin keeps claiming.

Ukraine must win, will join both NATO and the EU.

No it wont at least not without catastrophic consequences for all the world.

And people keep forgetting that in case we keep imposing the same politics that lead to this, that there is a strong chance that
in the future BRICKS countries may also form a military union that goes beyond the economy.

And those countries have 3.2 billion people combined at the moment while UN countries population is under a billion with way less chances to grow significantly while more and more countries are applying to join BRICKS. At this moment more than 40 countries want to join, and that would make BRICKS union climb close to 5 billion people in population. 

In case that things escalate, NATO wouldn't  stand a chance in conventional war without using nuclear power, and in case of nuclear war its game over for 90% of the world's  population.

NATO COUNTRIES:

(https://www.mappr.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/image-1.jpeg)


(https://www.kids-world-travel-guide.com/images/BRICS_Dailymaverick2023.png)

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 10, 2023, 09:44
I don't think Ukraine is ready to join the EU. Still very corrupt etc. They should definately be in NATO. Russia has proved any bordering country is in danger of invasion if they can't defend themselves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on September 10, 2023, 11:32
Ukraine has a very experienced and brave army and would literally be the shield for all of Europe.

I agree that getting them into the EU is a slower process.

NATO is more important.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on September 10, 2023, 12:06
@Lizard

Nobody cares about Brics.

They are totally divided and fighting each other, with China, Russia and several others all believing they will be the top dog and everyone else just becomes a slave state in their „empire“.

Their oligarchs will certainly thrive and make more money and perhaps longterm China will indeed dominate it all.

But the countries joining are not really interesting. Difficult economies, cannot feed their exploding populations and if they have any natural resources the money just goes to the oligarchs.

Their populations are desperate to escape and get jobs in NATO countries.

Until it goes the other way round - people from wealthy countries starting to move into the Brics zone it is all dead on arrival.

Actually I wish them luck, maybe they can do a little bit together to improve the lives of their people.

But I doubt it.Poor populations make better slaves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on September 10, 2023, 13:24
@Lizard

Nobody cares about Brics.

They are totally divided and fighting each other, with China, Russia and several others all believing they will be the top dog and everyone else just becomes a slave state in their „empire“.

Their oligarchs will certainly thrive and make more money and perhaps longterm China will indeed dominate it all.

But the countries joining are not really interesting. Difficult economies, cannot feed their exploding populations and if they have any natural resources the money just goes to the oligarchs.

Their populations are desperate to escape and get jobs in NATO countries.

Until it goes the other way round - people from wealthy countries starting to move into the Brics zone it is all dead on arrival.

Actually I wish them luck, maybe they can do a little bit together to improve the lives of their people.

But I doubt it.Poor populations make better slaves.


Oh, they care. Its just a good topic to avoid in western media.

Oligarchs are just extremely rich people that earn money in suspicious ways and get highly involved in politics. West is also full of those. Even more than the east. Most of the huge debt western countries have is owned by private corporations. National banks are in private hands and the nations are depending on their moves. Politicians have secret meetings and deal with them and passing laws that allow them to take more and more. Corporate budgets became larger the the ones of the countries. And all that money is controlled  by a few. Oligarchy at its best.

Also, don't forget that huge chunks of largest European countries budgets is being sucked from ex colonies and that also major part of largest companies production is there which makes their products competitive and their leaders can stop that in a second.

Also don't forget that western world owns way less natural resources and that Europe stands extremely poor in that aspect.

In this world, only the changes are permanent. And also emigrating for work doesn't mean liking the place you go or supporting that system.

I would say chasing the money to repay loans makes best slaves. And setting the basic living prices so high that an average human has to work overtime to cover basic cost is the best ground for modern slavery. 



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 10, 2023, 16:23

Their populations are desperate to escape and get jobs in NATO countries.

Exactly! Voting with one's the feet is the best way to assess the prosperity of a given country, beyond nationalist rethoric, propaganda or wishful thinking.

We will know we are in trouble when Americans, Germans, Poles, etc will wish to emigrate to russia, China, India or Brazil.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 11, 2023, 02:10
China, Russia and several others all believing they will be the top dog and everyone else just becomes a slave state in their „empire“.
China is the main enemy of peace and democracy. If there is no China, there will be no russia.
But now we need to eliminate the Russian orcs.
Republicans, unlike Democrats, want to eliminate the Chinese empire.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 11, 2023, 04:22
I absolutely do not think you are a Russian agent/ plant. But if you were you couldn't do a better job of muddying the water and turning people off of helping Ukraine. I know you don't get it and think you are helping but you really, really aren't.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 11, 2023, 06:59
Justanotherphotographer, who are you addressing?
Give your reasons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 11, 2023, 07:24
You, and the reason is that a lot of what you are saying is turning off people who's support Ukraine very much needs.

We can argue about whether what you are saying is true or not, but trust me the effect is the same. People who were on the fence or even broadly supportive of Ukraine are 100% being turned off by your xenophobia and also your opinions on American politics.

Again I am not arguing over whether what you are saying is true (I could, but that isn’t my point). My point is please think a bit more strategically if you want to help Ukraine, because this ain’t it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on September 11, 2023, 08:31
EU provides €1 million in humanitarian aid in response to the earthquake

https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/news/morocco-eu-provides-eu1-million-humanitarian-aid-response-earthquake-2023-09-11_en (https://neighbourhood-enlargement.ec.europa.eu/news/morocco-eu-provides-eu1-million-humanitarian-aid-response-earthquake-2023-09-11_en)


That's seriously a f.....g insult in such situation. They spend more on food and drinks at each of their internal EU commission office parties.

China also had a horse for the race and won by offering €200k

I hope Morocco will refuse those generous offers
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 11, 2023, 08:51
You, and the reason is that a lot of what you are saying is turning off people who's support Ukraine very much needs.

We can argue about whether what you are saying is true or not, but trust me the effect is the same. People who were on the fence or even broadly supportive of Ukraine are 100% being turned off by your xenophobia and also your opinions on American politics.

Again I am not arguing over whether what you are saying is true (I could, but that isn’t my point). My point is please think a bit more strategically if you want to help Ukraine, because this ain’t it.
:)
You probably forgot, but we are writing on the stock photographers forum. Here on the forum there is no UN, no NATO, no EU. There are no people here who can help Ukraine. This forum, and this topic, is the place where you can write the truth and your thoughts. Democracy is that if you support the Democrats, then I can support the Republicans.
As for the Russians, I haven’t seen a single good Russian here on the forum, only trolls and rashists.
 ;)

Rashism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruscism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruscism)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 12, 2023, 05:46
The war between Ukraine and russia is a war between European and Asian civilizations.
This is a war between democracy, freedom and despotism, totalitarianism, terrorism and fascism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 12, 2023, 06:09
Early on September 11, 2023, Ukraine's defense forces successfully struck the occupiers' UAV base in the village of Luhanske, Donetsk region.   8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW8mbiJXHN8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW8mbiJXHN8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 12, 2023, 06:10
Russian military death toll in Ukraine rises to about 269,760.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3760117-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-about-269760.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3760117-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-about-269760.html)
 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 12, 2023, 08:05
putin khuylo!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin_khuylo! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin_khuylo!)

Popular Ukrainian song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxSkAJ6u11Y&pp (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxSkAJ6u11Y&pp)

p.s.
When checking Russians for rashism, in addition to asking whose Crimea is, also ask “who is putin?”
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 12, 2023, 11:55
Klishchiivka, Ukraine. Fleeing Russian orcs from the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
 ;D ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/fflRwv3X-n4 (https://youtu.be/fflRwv3X-n4)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 12, 2023, 12:19
Elizabeth Warren Demands Probes of Elon Musk, SpaceX After Ukraine Revelations
Warren calls on Pentagon to look into decision over attack
Musk, other tech chiefs will meet with senators on Wednesday

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-11/elizabeth-warren-demands-probes-of-elon-musk-spacex-after-ukraine-revelations?srnd=politics-vp (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-11/elizabeth-warren-demands-probes-of-elon-musk-spacex-after-ukraine-revelations?srnd=politics-vp)

Senator Elizabeth Warren is demanding an investigation into SpaceX after Elon Musk acknowledged he had blocked Ukraine from extending the private Starlink satellite network for an attack on Russian warships near the Crimean coast.

“The Congress needs to investigate what’s happened here and whether we have adequate tools to make sure foreign policy is conducted by the government and not by one billionaire,” the Massachusetts Democrat said Monday at the Capitol.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 13, 2023, 08:45
THE LEADER OF THE REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE CALLED FOR PRESSURE ON BIDEN.
Arming Ukraine is 'in our direct interest,' Republican leader McConnell says.

Only Republicans can save the civilized world from the Russians and China.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 13, 2023, 14:05
Interesting that Elizabeth Warren who you praised above for her anti-Musk stance is a democrat (and btw, I don't like her marxist views at all)

Keep inflating the bubble you live in, but don't be surprised when it will burst, smashing everything you are fighting for and more.

Rest assured that Trump will get rid of all those who are supporting Ukraine, and replace them with the likes of Vivek Ramaswamy, Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz etc... who kiss his a@@ all day long and push for a deal that will give russia whatever they occupied today. 🤮
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 13, 2023, 15:40
Interesting that Elizabeth Warren who you praised above for her anti-Musk stance is a democrat (and btw, I don't like her marxist views at all)
Well, not all Democrats are cowards ;D ;D

There is information that Elon Musk has sold control over Starlink equipment and services over Ukraine's geozone to the US Department of Defense.  8)

So, now Musk will not disable anything for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.  ;D

Keep inflating the bubble you live in, but don't be surprised when it will burst, smashing everything you are fighting for and more.
I have nothing to do with it. The Democrats are inflating their own bubble. We'll see how this ends in the elections.
You will not find people in Ukraine who are satisfied with the policies of Biden and the Democrats. Yes, Ukrainians will say thank you, but you will not find them satisfied.

Rest assured that Trump will get rid of all those who are supporting Ukraine, and replace them with the likes of Vivek Ramaswamy, Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz etc... who kiss his a@@ all day long and push for a deal that will give russia whatever they occupied today. 🤮
You think too much of the clown Trump.  ;D
I don’t know who will be the next president of the United States, I’m just writing that politics should be done by Republicans, not Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 13, 2023, 15:43
Zero Talent, Why do you like these Democrats so much? You are not a female US citizen.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 13, 2023, 15:48

You think too much of the clown Trump.  ;D
I don’t know who will be the next president of the United States, I’m just writing that politics should be done by Republicans, not Democrats.

Yep, you are writing that the politics should done by a clown.

I just read that another old school republican, Mitt Romney decided to retire.

You want the new republicans, the nationalist-populists, the isolationists, the growing anti-Ukraine wing to win, therefore you will get the clown, and lose whatever support Ukraine got so far.

And with the clown comes the whole circus, including the likes of those I mentioned above. Have no doubt.

And all the old school Republicans you are dreaming about, will continue to be pushed out, or forced to bend the knee in front of the clown.

Zero Talent, Why do you like these Democrats so much? You are not a female US citizen.  ;D

I don't like the democrats. I will gladly vote for an old school republican, but there are few left, and those who are still here, are powerless, marginalized and ridiculed, being called RINOs (Republican In Name Only) by trump and his dominant MAGA cult.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on September 13, 2023, 16:58
Interesting that Elizabeth Warren who you praised above for her anti-Musk stance is a democrat (and btw, I don't like her marxist views at all)

Keep inflating the bubble you live in, but don't be surprised when it will burst, smashing everything you are fighting for and more.

Rest assured that Trump will get rid of all those who are supporting Ukraine, and replace them with the likes of Vivek Ramaswamy, Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz etc... who kiss his a@@ all day long and push for a deal that will give russia whatever they occupied today. 🤮

Elon Musk has, as far as I know, strongly right-wing and Republican-leaning political views. And he has enough money, power and influence to make his own decisions. These can be very dangerous from a national and international perspective.

I am not surprised that there is unease about this on the part of the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 14, 2023, 03:39
You want the new republicans, the nationalist-populists, the isolationists, the growing anti-Ukraine wing to win, therefore you will get the clown, and lose whatever support Ukraine got so far.
Yes, you are right, there are risks. But these risks were and are created by the Democrats. We see how easily the Russians evade sanctions, how China is strengthening. The policies of the Democrats lead to the fact that fascism will soon occupy the whole world.
About the Republicans, you write about real risks, but these risks do not necessarily materialize. Now there is a third world war, during war there are always and everywhere risks. When the Russians occupy Ukraine and kill the Ukrainians, they will begin to attack other countries in Europe.
I see here on the forum that many Europeans and not only Europeans think that the war will not affect them, that everything will end in Ukraine. It's an illusion.
About the Republicans, we know for sure that they want to weaken China, and this is a good plan. The Russians are still holding out only because China is helping them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 14, 2023, 08:57
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66798508 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66798508)

lol, what a bunch of clowns. Lack of professionalism leads to missile launch. Pilot is too inept to hit target with first missile, second just falls right off the wing when he tries to fire it.

The trifecta; crappy procedures, lack of necessary skill and trash equipment.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 14, 2023, 09:11
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66798508 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66798508)

lol, what a bunch of clowns. Lack of professionalism leads to missile launch. Pilot is too inept to hit target with first missile, second just falls right off the wing when he tries to fire it.

The trifecta; crappy procedures, lack of necessary skill and trash equipment.
;D
The Russians have long since run out of good pilots. In 2022, the Ukrainian Armed Forces shot down many Russian fighters. The Russians have no one to fly, only beginners who don’t know how to do anything.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 14, 2023, 09:38
You want the new republicans, the nationalist-populists, the isolationists, the growing anti-Ukraine wing to win, therefore you will get the clown, and lose whatever support Ukraine got so far.
Yes, you are right, there are risks.

Nope. These are not "risks".

If trump returns to the White House, these are certainties, no matter how deep you choose to burry your head in the sand.  ::)

The same goes if his mouthpiece in the ongoing republican primaries, Vivek Ramaswamy gains more momentum.

Anyway, despite the growth in the polls, Ramaswamy has very little chance to become the republican nominee in a race against his idol, but a very high chance to get an important role in trump's administration, together with other members of the Freedom Caucus circus, mentioned above.

And then all this WILL certainly translate in a disaster for Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 14, 2023, 09:58
Zero Talent, as always, you exaggerate everything.
Trump was already President of the United States. No disaster occurred. Ukraine received more weapons under Trump than under Obama. More precisely, under Obama, Ukraine received zero.
You have little idea who the Republicans are. You only look at clowns and populists. However, the Republicans include almost all industrial magnates and weapons manufacturers. It is beneficial for the United States to supply a lot of weapons to Ukraine, and the Republicans understand this very well. I will also add that unlike Democrats, Republicans are not cowards. When Trump was president, the US army killed Russians in Syria. Is the US Army Killing Russians Under Biden? The question is rhetorical...
Let’s not forget that the US political system is designed in such a way that it is impossible to make the scenarios you constantly write about real.
I already wrote what will happen if Trump comes to power and this is what he talked about. The EU will pay a lot of money for the war in Ukraine, the US will pay little money. But! The US will begin to weaken China, which is right. Also, I hope Ukraine will receive more weapons than under Biden. I also hope that the Republicans will crush the Russians with sanctions, but this is not yet certain.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 14, 2023, 10:05

You have little idea who the Republicans are.

I'm afraid it's the other way around.
I live among them, while you live faraway, in a wishful thinking fantasy world, populated by old school Republicans who don't exist anymore.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: cobalt on September 14, 2023, 10:57
If Trump wins, Ukraine will be handed over to Putin with nice golden bow wrapped around it.

Trump is Putins puppet, he will do anything he wants immediately.

You should look up the Maga 2025 agenda. They want to dismantle democracy in the USA once and for all.

The old republicans no longer exist. This is now Trumps party and MAGA hates democracy more than anything.

Ukraine will become part of Russia, the USA will be moved out of Nato, Taiwan will lose it's protection and be handed over to China.

All while Trump and his family make billions in bribe money.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 14, 2023, 14:04

You have little idea who the Republicans are.

I'm afraid it's the other way around.
I live among them, while you live faraway, in a wishful thinking fantasy world, populated by old school Republicans who don't exist anymore.
1. Where do you live?
2. Which Republicans are you talking about? About congressmen and industrialists or about the electorate that likes Trump?
3. Now the Democrats are in power, I don’t like their policies and I criticize them and will continue to criticize them. If the Democrats are replaced by Republicans and I don’t like their policies, I will criticize them too.
Think about why the Russians attacked Ukraine in 2014 under the Democrats and in 2022 under the Democrats. The answer is simple, Russians are not afraid of democrats and consider them cowards. China has the same point of view.
Therefore, democrats should not be in power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 14, 2023, 14:06
If Trump wins, Ukraine will be handed over to Putin with nice golden bow wrapped around it.

Trump is Putins puppet, he will do anything he wants immediately.

You should look up the Maga 2025 agenda. They want to dismantle democracy in the USA once and for all.

The old republicans no longer exist. This is now Trumps party and MAGA hates democracy more than anything.

Ukraine will become part of Russia, the USA will be moved out of Nato, Taiwan will lose it's protection and be handed over to China.

All while Trump and his family make billions in bribe money.
Great script for a horror movie. But why don't Hollywood make a film like this?  ;D
Add also that the Russians will occupy all of Europe and all EU countries.
 ::) ::) ::)

Sometimes I think that the Russians are doing this kind of propaganda so that the Democrats will win the elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 14, 2023, 14:17

1. Where do you live?

I live in the US and I regularly meet republicans. Democrats don't even dare to propose candidates in my neighborhood because they stand no chance.  ;)

Obviously you are not living in the US, because if you would, you would know what I'm talking about.

You, as I said before, live in a fantasy world.

I hope you realise that Hollywood movies are only movies....  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 15, 2023, 02:25

1. Where do you live?

I live in the US and I regularly meet republicans. Democrats don't even dare to propose candidates in my neighborhood because they stand no chance.  ;)

Obviously you are not living in the US, because if you would, you would know what I'm talking about.

You, as I said before, live in a fantasy world.

I hope you realise that Hollywood movies are only movies....  ::)
2. Which Republicans are you talking about? About congressmen and industrialists or about the electorate that likes Trump?
Why are you meeting with Republicans, are you a politician?

Your posts create more questions for you, they have no content. General phrases about nothing.

I thought you lived in Moldova.

If you live among the lumpen, which very often is the Republican electorate, change your state of residence.
This topic deals with the politics and possibilities of the Republican Party. You are trying to marginalize almost the entire Republican Party.
Obviously, for you, as a resident of the United States, it is extremely important for Democrats to be in power. I have already written about this; a US resident is very far from US foreign policy. You follow your interests. But your interests and US foreign policy are completely different things. You may not like the Republican electorate or the internal politics of the Republicans as much as you like, but this topic is not about the United States and not about the internal politics of the United States. We are discussing here the foreign policy of the US Democratic Party.
And it’s not nice that you, living in the USA, are trying to tell that Democrats are better for Ukraine than Republicans. Moreover, Trump was already president.
_______
Of course, I don’t live in the USA, I’ve already written about this here many times.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 15, 2023, 04:05
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-14/elon-musk-s-denial-of-ukraine-s-starlink-request-prompts-senate-query (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-14/elon-musk-s-denial-of-ukraine-s-starlink-request-prompts-senate-query)

Musk’s Denial of Ukraine’s Starlink Request Prompts Senate Probe

The Senate Armed Services Committee is probing national-security issues raised by Elon Musk’s decision not to extend the private Starlink satellite network to aid a Ukrainian attack on Russian warships near the Crimean coast.

Chairman Jack Reed said in a statement Thursday the reports on the use of Starlink exposed “serious national-security liability issues and the committee is engaged on this issue.”

“The committee is aggressively probing this issue from every angle,” he said.

Musk’s SpaceX also has become a major US contractor, launching spy satellites for the Defense Department and operating the Starlink network. The company didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

Reed said the committee will look at the broader satellite market, government contracting and “the outsized role Mr. Musk and his company have taken here.”

Reed and other senators have questioned why the decision wasn’t made by someone in the government.

“Neither Elon Musk, nor any private citizen, can have the last word when it comes to U.S. national security,” Reed said.

Other Democratic senators on the committee, including Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, have pressed the Defense Department for answers on why it was Musk — and not a US government official — deciding when Ukraine can use the satellite network.

Musk said earlier this week on the All-In Podcast that he would have extended Starlink for the Ukrainians in Crimea if President Joe Biden had directed him to do so, but no such directive came.

Musk said on the podcast that Starlink had been turned off over Crimea originally because of US sanctions on Russia.

At the time of Ukraine’s request last year, Musk wasn’t getting any US funding for Starlink’s operations in Ukraine, although it currently is supported with Pentagon funds.

Shaheen and Warren plan to send a letter to Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin asking for details on Starlink and Musk’s work in Ukraine, said a congressional aide who asked not to be named to discuss internal deliberations. The panel is not yet launching a formal investigation but rather gathering information, the aide said.

Shaheen said in a brief interview she has asked administration officials during classified briefings about control over the use of Starlink in Ukraine and has not gotten answers.

— With assistance by Loren Grush
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 15, 2023, 04:07
Elon Musk in the uniform of a Russian occupier sailor.
(https://i.imgur.com/TzSAMaz.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 15, 2023, 07:21
But your interests and US foreign policy are completely different things.
You prove one more time, that from your faraway land, you have a very distorted idea of US politics and US voter's sentiment.

Fyi, my interests and the current US foreign policy are aligned sufficiently: the US is, by a large margin, the leading supporter of Ukraine's struggle for freedom. Not as much as you or I would like, but clearly much more than in the case of a trump alternative. Compromise is a must in a democracy.

If trump, the Republicans, and their maga cult will manage to change the pro-Ukraine sentiment and convince more people to vote for them, then the new foreign policymakers will have to follow the new mandate from their electors.

The US will switch to an isolationist policy and Ukraine will be handed over on a silver plate to gospodin putin. That's what you are wishing for. ::)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 15, 2023, 08:34
The US will switch to an isolationist policy and Ukraine will be handed over on a silver plate to gospodin putin. That's what you are wishing for. ::)
You constantly ignore the fact that Trump was already President of the United States. And nothing happened from those horror stories that you constantly write here.
I have the impression that you have joined the US election campaign and are constantly advertising the Democrats.
I only understand the facts. The Democrats are doing a bad job fighting the Russians and China, that's a fact. And the assertion that if Trump becomes president, the whole world will turn upside down and Ukraine will perish, these are just your fantasies.
I am not a US citizen, so the election campaign in the US is not interesting to me. All I’m doing here is criticizing the Democrats and saying that if the Democrats can’t cope with the Russians and China, then power should go to the Republicans.

Force Biden to give Ukraine sufficient quantities of long-range and cluster missiles and aircraft, and I will write that the Democrats are good. We need even more sanctions against the Russians and against China. Force the Democrats to strengthen sanctions and introduce new ones. If we don’t see all this before the elections, then why do we need democrats at all? Democrats are cowards and impotent.
As for the Republicans, we will already talk about when they gain power = they win the elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 15, 2023, 08:48
If Trump wanted to give Ukraine and half of the EU to the Russians, putin would have launched a full-scale offensive on Ukraine under Trump, and not under Biden. This is a fact and it is obvious.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 15, 2023, 08:58
If Trump wanted to give Ukraine and half of the EU to the Russians, putin would have launched a full-scale offensive on Ukraine under Trump, and not under Biden. This is a fact and it is obvious.

Night follows day. That's also a fact.
He obviously couldn't invade when the oil price was negative, but who is looking into such details, when you have propaganda to feed you "facts"?  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 15, 2023, 12:50
If Trump wanted to give Ukraine and half of the EU to the Russians, putin would have launched a full-scale offensive on Ukraine under Trump, and not under Biden. This is a fact and it is obvious.

Night follows day. That's also a fact.
He obviously couldn't invade when the oil price was negative, but who is looking into such details, when you have propaganda to feed you "facts"?  ::)
Oil prices began to rise under Obama. The price of oil was not negative under Trump. And what does the price of oil have to do with it? It is only the Democrats who use such a term as the price of oil. There is such a thing as an embargo. So, regardless of the price of oil and gas, an embargo should be applied to the Russians.
Believe it or not, putin did not launch an offensive under Trump only because he is afraid of the Republicans. Putin was sure that the democrats would not give any weapons to Ukraine, here he was a little mistaken, Ukraine was given some weapons.
My advice to you is, of course, campaign for the Democrats, but just don’t write horror stories.

I understand that this is such an election fight in the USA, Democrats tell everyone that Republicans are criminals and monsters. I understand.  ;D ;D ;D

If you don’t like Trump, he’s a criminal, so put him in jail. If Trump is not in prison, then he has the same rights as Biden and anyone else.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 15, 2023, 14:49
Believe it or not, putin did not launch an offensive under Trump only because he is afraid of the Republicans.

Lol. You're so naive to believe the propaganda the clown is chest-beating himself with, at every maga rally! :D

putin had to get his army ready. He had to sell a lot of oil for that. His large-scale invasion was many years in the making.

His plans were put on hold, not by the trump, who made you believe that putin was afraid of a clown,(https://i.postimg.cc/x1JL1LMm/rofl.gif), but by covid and the collapse of oil prices.

He was betting on oil prices to continue to finance his war. That's why he had to put his large-scale invasion plans on hold when the prices dropped even below zero dollars/barrel.

What he was not expecting was the unity of the democratic world and the level of sanctions the US and EU imposed on his regime, under the leadership of Biden's administration (even if incomplete and despite the initial cowardice and foolish appeasement attempts by Macron and Scholz)

And of course, he was clearly not expecting the heroic resistance of the Ukrainian army.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 16, 2023, 03:31
Zero Talent, there is no need to manipulate facts.
Our conversation with you began with the fact that you said many times that Trump would give Ukraine to putin and stop the supply of weapons. To which I told you that if Trump and the Republicans were such monsters as you described them, they would have given Ukraine to putin during Trump’s reign.
The Russian army was ready for an attack on Ukraine already under Trump, and putin formed a reserve cash fund also under Trump. You are clearly not aware of the Russian reserve fund, which allows them to wage war under sanctions and even with low oil prices.
The russian advance into Ukraine ended with the russians losing half (if not more) of their army and equipment. The russians lost all their best trained soldiers. Russian losses are not commensurate with oil and gas prices. Therefore, regardless of oil prices and Covid (which Putin doesn’t care about, just as putin doesn’t care about all russians), if you follow your logic about Trump, the russians should have attacked Ukraine precisely under Trump.
Therefore, Zero Talent, do not flood and do not contradict yourself. Choose one line or something.
If Trump and the Republicans are not the monsters you described them as, then yes, we can continue this discussion. But in any case, statistics say that the russian attack on Ukraine in 2013-2014 occurred under the Democrats and a full-scale attack on Ukraine occurred in 2022, also under the Democrats. These are facts, indisputable facts.
If putin did not expect sanctions from the Democrats, then he expected sanctions from the Republicans.
Moreover, the Russians attacked Ukraine not in 2022, but in 2014. In 2022, the Russians launched a large-scale offensive. The timing for this offensive was chosen. In fact, the Russians were ready to attack in any year of the Trump administration.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 16, 2023, 03:34
Zero Talent, You are very fanatical about defending Democrats and it shows. I think you have some kind of personal interest in the Democrats winning. This is not bad, many have some kind of profit from politics, but you need to understand that people are dying in Ukraine because of the cowardly policies of the democrats.
The whole world is under threat, the democrats cannot cope not only with the Russians, but also with China, the DPRK and Iran. All this can lead the civilized world to disaster, which is what Trump is talking about.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 16, 2023, 12:36
https://youtu.be/RA9fyaTchIc

The Ukrainian Armed Forces liberated Andriivka from Russian terrorists. The video shows the clearing of the territory from Russian occupiers.

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on September 16, 2023, 15:46
Zero Talent, You are very fanatical about defending Democrats and it shows. I think you have some kind of personal interest in the Democrats winning.

We are back to that one point. You only know black or white. If you read the posts of the one without talent, you would have perceived what he really thinks. But you do not want to perceive it because it does not suit you.

I do not know exactly how many people have already accused you of your black and white thinking here - you really do not even notice it.

And therefore I repeat myself for the umpteenth time: I'm glad that people like you are not politically in power. The planet would have perished long ago in the nuclear war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 17, 2023, 03:24
Wilm, if the Democrats win the elections in 2024, the planet will come very close to the hot phase of war. China, North Korea, Iran and the Russians want to take over the whole world and occupy democratic countries.
If you don’t like what I write, this does not mean that you are right and understand geopolitics better than me.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 17, 2023, 03:26
You only know black or white.
This has nothing to do with it at all.
But even if I thought only in black and white, I would never propose giving power to the Republicans.
There is no need to label people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 17, 2023, 04:31
Inside Kim Jong Un’s luxurious — and slow — armored train.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/11/kim-jong-un-armored-train-north-korea-putin/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/11/kim-jong-un-armored-train-north-korea-putin/)

There are 90 carriages on the train!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 17, 2023, 13:16
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/08/14/russia-will-struggle-to-cope-with-a-sinking-rouble (https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2023/08/14/russia-will-struggle-to-cope-with-a-sinking-rouble)

What does the currency’s collapse mean for putin’s ability to wage war?

On august 14th russia’s rouble slipped past the value of 100 to the American dollar, meaning it was worth less than a solitary cent—and was the cheapest it had been since the immediate aftermath of the invasion of Ukraine. The currency is one of the world’s worst performers this year, outdone only by perennially troublesome peers like the Argentine peso, Venezuelan bolivar and Turkish lira.
 ;D ;D ;D

The article also mentions Germany helping the Russians.  >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 18, 2023, 12:26
You only know black or white.
This has nothing to do with it at all.
But even if I thought only in black and white, I would never propose giving power to the Republicans.
There is no need to label people.

How deep do you have to bury your head in the sand, to be so oblivious to reality? 🧐

"Give" power to the new maga republicans and this will happen:

Trump always said he would end the war within 24  hours if he was in power. During an interview with NBC news he clarified his intentions. Ukraine has to give up parts of its sovereign land unlawfully occupied by Russia.

"That is something that could have been negotiated. There were certain parts, Crimea, other parts of the country that people expected, could happen... you could have made a deal. They could have made a deal where there is less territory right now than Russia has already taken, he said.


https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1703791785099591819?t=F9OeAVRvgL4On0z8yZffWg&s=09

 ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on September 18, 2023, 17:54
Wilm, if the Democrats win the elections in 2024, the planet will come very close to the hot phase of war. China, North Korea, Iran and the Russians want to take over the whole world and occupy democratic countries.
If you don’t like what I write, this does not mean that you are right and understand geopolitics better than me.

still with these Chinese? :D
But do you really believe that China will start a hot war against NATO?
Have you forgotten that China abstained in the 2014 referendum?
However, I agree with you about the Democrats who in my opinion handled this bad situation badly,especially at the beginning of the conflict.
I firmly believe that the Republicans would have done a better job and Putin already knew this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on September 19, 2023, 02:41
Russia hits Kostiantynivka (Ukraine) killing at least 16 people.

https://youtu.be/vogf24QwUm8 (https://youtu.be/vogf24QwUm8)

Quote from Zelenskyy: "When anyone in the world still tries to deal with anything of Russian nature, it means turning a blind eye to reality. The audacity of evil. The audacity of meanness. Full-scale inhumanity.

By now, Russian terrorists' artillery has killed 16 people in the town of Kostiantynivka, Donetsk Oblast. It was an ordinary market. Shops. A pharmacy. People who did nothing wrong. Many were wounded. Unfortunately, the number of people killed and injured may increase."

Russians are orcs who only know how to fight against women and children.
Zelensky is lying again, and you are again broadcasting this lie here, deceiving people.
Evidence collected and analyzed by The New York Times, including missile fragments, satellite imagery, witness accounts and social media posts, strongly suggests the catastrophic strike was the result of an errant Ukrainian air defense missile fired by a Buk launch system.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/europe/ukraine-missile-kostiantynivka-market.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/europe/ukraine-missile-kostiantynivka-market.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 19, 2023, 03:17
Zelensky is lying again, and you are again broadcasting this lie here, deceiving people.
Evidence collected and analyzed by The New York Times, including missile fragments, satellite imagery, witness accounts and social media posts, strongly suggests the catastrophic strike was the result of an errant Ukrainian air defense missile fired by a Buk launch system.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/europe/ukraine-missile-kostiantynivka-market.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/18/world/europe/ukraine-missile-kostiantynivka-market.html)

I can't read the article as it's behind a paywall but lets assume you are correct and on this occasion it was an errant defence missile trying to protect Ukrainian civilians or troops that accidentality killed them.

What’s your broader point? How are people being “deceived”, do you mean about this one missile or more broadly?

I would like to know why you have pounced on this isolated incident that could easily be down to the fog of war rather than an outright lie.

Is your assertion that Russia isn’t levelling Ukrainian cities killing hundreds of civilians? Are these all “lies”. If they aren't (and they aren't) why have you decided to leap in on this one with a sweeping statement about Zelensky, rather than maybe a correction more like "actually on this occasion it looks like it is probably an errant Ukrainian missile misfiring".

I really just would like to know what “Zelensky is lying again” means in a larger context…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 03:21
Wilm, if the Democrats win the elections in 2024, the planet will come very close to the hot phase of war. China, North Korea, Iran and the Russians want to take over the whole world and occupy democratic countries.
If you don’t like what I write, this does not mean that you are right and understand geopolitics better than me.

still with these Chinese? :D
But do you really believe that China will start a hot war against NATO?
Have you forgotten that China abstained in the 2014 referendum?
You should read my posts from the last month. Geopolitics is a huge chessboard. A bloc of countries is opposed to democracy: russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Belarus. Each country has its own role, and China supports each of these countries. There is an opinion that this entire bloc is controlled by China.
China has long started a war against NATO countries. This includes the supply of deadly drugs, the coronavirus, the supply of weapons to russia, and economic support for russia and support for russia and the DPRK at the UN.
China is not as stupid as the Russians, it does not have to recognize the referendum on Crimea, it simply blocks any proposals unfavorable for russia at the UN.
Regarding the hot phase of the war, China will soon attack Taiwan and NATO countries will be drawn into this conflict. North Korea will attack Japan and South Korea (NATO countries will also be drawn into the conflict). The Russians are planning to attack the European NATO bloc and have already begun to form a springboard for this (Ukraine). Also, China can attack Australia, although Australia is already economically dependent on China and is very much afraid of China and is afraid to even say anything unfavorable to China.
China has many options. China coordinates all actions of this bloc of countries.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 03:33
I can't read the article as it's behind a paywall
The Times published an article paid for by the Russians. The arguments there are certainly cool, according to some unknown witnesses, messages on social networks.  ::)
And yes, all Russian trolls yesterday received orders to attack Ukraine and accuse it of murdering Ukrainian citizens. If you ask Russian trolls - who destroys cities and kills Ukrainians?, they will tell you that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are doing it. That's why I always write that Russians are evil, who should be separated from the civilized world by an iron wall.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 03:37
Zero Talent, I have already written to you many times, stop reading the circus performances of the Trump clown. He says different things every day. From the latter, he no longer wants to give Crimea to the Russians.
There is no point in your Biden, who always sings beautifully, but whose politics are of very, very little use.
Therefore, we must look not at Biden or Trump as individuals, but at parties.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on September 19, 2023, 07:10
What’s your broader point? How are people being “deceived”, do you mean about this one missile or more broadly?
More broadly I see that Zelensky’s constant lies are aimed at trying to draw NATO armed forces directly into this conflict. Remember for example last year when a Ukrainian rocket fell on Polish territory and killed people. Then Zelenskyy also imidiatly blamed Russia saying that "Russian missiles hit Poland". After this, polish President  Duda spoke with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg about the possibility of activating Article 4 of the NATO Charter. It’s not far from Article 4 to Article 5. And the application of Article 5 will lead to global war and mutual destruction in a nuclear war. I don't know how, but the war must be ended as quickly as possible through peace negotiations. The escalation of a local war into a global one is unacceptable, as it threatens the disappearance of human civilization. This is my broader point of view that you asked about.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 19, 2023, 07:55
Zero Talent, I have already written to you many times, stop reading the circus performances of the Trump clown. He says different things every day. From the latter, he no longer wants to give Crimea to the Russians.
There is no point in your Biden, who always sings beautifully, but whose politics are of very, very little use.
Therefore, we must look not at Biden or Trump as individuals, but at parties.
Yes, indeed. We should look at the parties, too.

There is a party whose representatives are voting unanimously to support Ukraine's liberation efforts, and there is another party whose representatives are relentlessly issuing bills (luckily unsuccessful... for now) aiming to stop all help for Ukraine.

Can you name these parties? 🤔
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 19, 2023, 09:21
I don't know how, but the war must be ended as quickly as possible through peace negotiations.

That's easy.
Tell your warmonger dear leader for life to withdraw his invading army from Ukraine beyond its internationally recognized borders (that includes Crimea, in case the obvious must be stated), and then the peace negotiations can begin.

Negotiations about how much compensation russia must pay for  murdering so many of innocent people, for the looting, devastation and destruction of a sovereign country, all of it only because of its mad imperialistic obsessions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 09:34
I don't know how, but the war must be ended as quickly as possible through peace negotiations.

That's easy.
Tell your warmonger dear leader for life to withdraw his invading army from Ukraine beyond its internationally recognized borders (that includes Crimea, in case the obvious must be stated), and then the peace negotiations can begin.

Negotiations about how much compensation russia must pay for  murdering so many of innocent people, for the looting, devastation and destruction of a sovereign country, all of it only because of its mad imperialistic obsessions.
+100

What are you talking about... So that the Russians would be against the war and want the de-occupation of Ukraine? It is fantastic. Their president and war criminal putin is just fulfilling the Russians' desire to expand the Russian empire and kill everyone the Russians want to kill.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on September 19, 2023, 09:37
That's easy.
Tell ....
Maybe you can try to tell it yourself and you’ll do better?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 09:41
Zero Talent, I have already written to you many times, stop reading the circus performances of the Trump clown. He says different things every day. From the latter, he no longer wants to give Crimea to the Russians.
There is no point in your Biden, who always sings beautifully, but whose politics are of very, very little use.
Therefore, we must look not at Biden or Trump as individuals, but at parties.
Yes, indeed. We should look at the parties, too.

There is a party whose representatives are voting unanimously to support Ukraine's liberation efforts, and there is another party whose representatives are relentlessly issuing bills (luckily unsuccessful... for now) aiming to stop all help for Ukraine.

Can you name these parties? 🤔
Zero Talent
1. Where is F16?
2. Where are the ATACMS missiles?
3. Where are the Abrams tanks?
4. Why Lend-Lease doesn't work?
5. Why are there few sanctions against the Russians and no sanctions against China?
And there are a lot of similar questions.

Talking, voting, signing and doing are different things.
You argue only with words, refer to beautiful words and voting results. But these Democrats are of very little use. Apart from chatter, there is little real and effective action.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on September 19, 2023, 09:43
@stoker2014:

I believe that China will join NATO in a maximum of 20 years.

the only real problem is in fact Taiwan,this will slow down China's entry into NATO,otherwise it would have happened sooner.

China does not support Russia in the war against Ukraine,but it is also true that it has increased imports of oil and other resources from Russia,and some might think that it is supporting Russia economically but instead in my opinion it is an economic maneuver in view of the increase in prices of these resources.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 19, 2023, 09:54
That's easy.
Tell ....
Maybe you can try to tell it yourself and you’ll do better?

He is not my dear leader, but he is yours.
So it's not up to me. It's up you and the other russians to tell him, one way or another, to stop the war and withdraw his troops.

And you should do something about it, before having the audacity to ask for peace, while your fellow russians are still invading, looting and destroying an independent country and killing so many innocent civilians.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on September 19, 2023, 10:00

He is not my dear leader, but he is yours.
So it's up to you and the other russians to tell him, one way or anothe
It looks as if you know how I vote in the elections of the head of state.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 19, 2023, 10:04

He is not my dear leader, but he is yours.
So it's up to you and the other russians to tell him, one way or anothe
It looks as if you know how I vote in the elections of the head of state.

Like the elections in russia matter. 🙄
There are other ways to tell a mad dictator to stop the war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 19, 2023, 10:23

He is not my dear leader, but he is yours.
So it's up to you and the other russians to tell him, one way or anothe
It looks as if you know how I vote in the elections of the head of state.

Like the elections in russia matter. 🙄
You must be delusional. There are other ways to tell a mad dictator to stop the war.

It's crazy to think that if Putin goes there could be someone worse to take his place. The two rivals he recently offed (after unleashing them on Ukraine) in that plane were absolutely monstrous for example. They opposed his stance on Ukraine because he wasn’t savage enough. Dmitry Utkin the actual leader of the Wagner group behind the scenes was an actual full on N-azi obsessed with Hitler to the point of having swastika tattoos, and naming his mercenary group after Hitler’s favourite composer. This is the guy that was in charge of one of the main arms of Russian military power all over the world. It’s why the rest of world wasn’t too overjoyed by the prospect of these guys taking power when they marched on Moscow. Nuts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 19, 2023, 10:37
Zero Talent, I have already written to you many times, stop reading the circus performances of the Trump clown. He says different things every day. From the latter, he no longer wants to give Crimea to the Russians.
There is no point in your Biden, who always sings beautifully, but whose politics are of very, very little use.
Therefore, we must look not at Biden or Trump as individuals, but at parties.
Yes, indeed. We should look at the parties, too.

There is a party whose representatives are voting unanimously to support Ukraine's liberation efforts, and there is another party whose representatives are relentlessly issuing bills (luckily unsuccessful... for now) aiming to stop all help for Ukraine.

Can you name these parties? 🤔
Zero Talent
1. Where is F16?
2. Where are the ATACMS missiles?
3. Where are the Abrams tanks?
4. Why Lend-Lease doesn't work?
5. Why are there few sanctions against the Russians and no sanctions against China?
And there are a lot of similar questions.

Talking, voting, signing and doing are different things.
You argue only with words, refer to beautiful words and voting results. But these Democrats are of very little use. Apart from chatter, there is little real and effective action.

A lot of talk but you have not named the parties. ;)

Which party has always voted unanimously to support Ukraine, and which party is relentlessly attempting to stop all aid, by trying to get anti-Ukraine bills passed in the Congress?

I agree that some help is delayed and more could be done.

But are you prepared to extend your list to everything Ukraine got from US so far, in case your wish is fullfiled and the clown and his anti-Ukraine, maga republicans will seize the power?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 11:09
Zero Talent, we are discussing only two parties. Democratic and Republican.
You are frightening that if the Republicans come to power, it will be worse for Ukraine. Yes, your horror stories may have a certain percentage of truth, this is called risks. I do not like and do not tolerate stagnation, double standards and trading on Ukrainian blood. The third world war is underway. And if the Democrats are not effective, what fool would support them? If the Republicans come and turn out to be worse than the Democrats, then they will not have support either.
But, I saw the foreign policy of the Republicans when Trump was president, I liked this policy more than the policy of the Democrats. You understand much of what the Republicans say very crudely and do not fully understand what they want to do. This is your problem.
If I were deciding who to give power to in the United States, I would have given power to the Republicans a year ago.

Republicans are willing and able to pursue a more comprehensive foreign policy than Democrats do. Republicans want not only the defeat of the Russians, but also a significant weakening of China. Only under Republican leadership can the democratic world defeat the Chinese dragon.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 11:14
@stoker2014:

I believe that China will join NATO in a maximum of 20 years.

the only real problem is in fact Taiwan,this will slow down China's entry into NATO,otherwise it would have happened sooner.

China does not support Russia in the war against Ukraine,but it is also true that it has increased imports of oil and other resources from Russia,and some might think that it is supporting Russia economically but instead in my opinion it is an economic maneuver in view of the increase in prices of these resources.
It’s immediately obvious that you read little about geopolitics. Communist and totalitarian China will never join NATO. China is called the main threat to the United States and the world order. China not only trades with the Russians, it also supplies the Russians with weapons and supports the Russians in the UN.
The democratic world is already fighting a third world war with the Chinese dragon. This dragon has 3 heads (China, russia, Iran). The dragon also has 2 front hands (DPRK, Belarus). So, in order to kill a dragon, it is not enough to chop off just one Russian head.
This is all educational, and you need to read more about China and the threat it poses to the democratic world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 11:23
That's easy.
Tell ....
Maybe you can try to tell it yourself and you’ll do better?

He is not my dear leader, but he is yours.
So it's not up to me. It's up you and the other russians to tell him, one way or another, to stop the war and withdraw his troops.

And you should do something about it, before having the audacity to ask for peace, while your fellow russians are still invading, looting and destroying an independent country and killing so many innocent civilians.
This Rashist and Russian troll cannot even answer the question whose Crimea is. And you want him to rebel against his tsar.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 11:28
It is necessary to change the international name of the country "Russia". The word russia has been stolen from the history of Ukraine. Initially there was a state called Kievan Rus'. Ukraine is the legal successor of Kievan Rus'. The word "Russia" was invented by the Russians after the occupation of Ukrainian territory by stealing it from the name of the state Kievan Rus'.
Therefore, the international name of the Russian empire should not be Russia, but Rosia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 19, 2023, 11:37
Zero Talent, we are discussing only two parties. Democratic and Republican.
You are frightening that if the Republicans come to power, it will be worse for Ukraine. Yes, your horror stories may have a certain percentage of truth, this is called risks. I do not like and do not tolerate stagnation, double standards and trading on Ukrainian blood. The third world war is underway. And if the Democrats are not effective, what fool would support them? If the Republicans come and turn out to be worse than the Democrats, then they will not have support either.
But, I saw the foreign policy of the Republicans when Trump was president, I liked this policy more than the policy of the Democrats. You understand much of what the Republicans say very crudely and do not fully understand what they want to do. This is your problem.
If I were deciding who to give power to in the United States, I would have given power to the Republicans a year ago.

Republicans are willing and able to pursue a more comprehensive foreign policy than Democrats do. Republicans want not only the defeat of the Russians, but also a significant weakening of China. Only under Republican leadership can the democratic world defeat the Chinese dragon.

A lot of words, but you still have not named the parties:

Which party has always voted unanimously to support Ukraine, and which party is relentlessly attempting to stop all aid, by trying to get anti-Ukraine bills passed in the Congress?

Here is the a speech from a few moments ago:

https://youtu.be/zPitEXBh06s

Rest assured that you will never get this from trump nor any other maga republican!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on September 19, 2023, 13:53
@stoker2014:

I believe that China will join NATO in a maximum of 20 years.

the only real problem is in fact Taiwan,this will slow down China's entry into NATO,otherwise it would have happened sooner.

China does not support Russia in the war against Ukraine,but it is also true that it has increased imports of oil and other resources from Russia,and some might think that it is supporting Russia economically but instead in my opinion it is an economic maneuver in view of the increase in prices of these resources.
It’s immediately obvious that you read little about geopolitics. Communist and totalitarian China will never join NATO. China is called the main threat to the United States and the world order. China not only trades with the Russians, it also supplies the Russians with weapons and supports the Russians in the UN.
The democratic world is already fighting a third world war with the Chinese dragon. This dragon has 3 heads (China, russia, Iran). The dragon also has 2 front hands (DPRK, Belarus). So, in order to kill a dragon, it is not enough to chop off just one Russian head.
This is all educational, and you need to read more about China and the threat it poses to the democratic world.

yes all this is what has happened up to now,even if China has never openly supported Russia,it has limited itself to making declarations on the expansion of NATO to the East.

in my opinion for China,Russia is more a problem than anything else,and it certainly does not support Western policy too,
China needs to maintain good relations with Russia due to its geographical and consequently commercial position.

the point is NATO's expansion plan to the east,which in the end will inevitably also involve China.

Putin's government will soon end,times are changing,NATO will continue to expand,it is now an unbeatable superpower,neither China nor anyone can now openly challenge NATO,not even the three allied dragon heads can do anything against NATO anymore,they know it too.

The consequence of all this is inevitable,I see a not too distant future in which China will join NATO after other Asian countries will join first.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 14:46
A lot of words, but you still have not named the parties:

Which party has always voted unanimously to support Ukraine, and which party is relentlessly attempting to stop all aid, by trying to get anti-Ukraine bills passed in the Congress?

Here is the a speech from a few moments ago:

https://youtu.be/zPitEXBh06s

Rest assured that you will never get this from trump nor any other maga republican!
We've already talked about this. You are passing off a small group of Republicans as the entire Republican Party. Yes, there are different people in the Republican Party, perhaps this adds votes to the party in elections. But these people are very few. Also, not only Republicans, but also Democrats vote in Congress. Democrats can only talk and vote. When the Republicans take power, this will be enough from the Democrats.

As for Biden at the UN, it’s a beautiful song and Biden sings it well. Is this enough for you? But this is not enough for Ukrainians. In the line of fire, Ukraine needs tanks, aircraft, missiles, a lot of shells and a lot of sanctions against the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 14:59

the point is NATO's expansion plan to the east,which in the end will inevitably also involve China.

Putin's government will soon end,times are changing,NATO will continue to expand,it is now an unbeatable superpower,neither China nor anyone can now openly challenge NATO,not even the three allied dragon heads can do anything against NATO anymore,they know it too.

The consequence of all this is inevitable,I see a not too distant future in which China will join NATO after other Asian countries will join first.
You write illusions, the reality is completely different.
The third world war is underway, and it is not known how it will end. Especially when the Democrats are in power in the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 19, 2023, 15:07
Today, a rather manipulative article was published in "The New York Times", which says that a Ukrainian rocket fell on Kostiantynivka. By the way, its author is Thomas Gibbons-Neff, who has repeatedly been seen promoting the Russian narrative. This is already the fourth article of the journalist in "The New York Times", where he tries to discredit Ukraine and the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Previously, he wrote that Ukraine uses cluster munitions in populated areas, stated that the Ukrainian Armed Forces trade tanks and artillery, and also accused American volunteers who help Ukraine of wastefulness.

The journalist has already been deprived of the press card of the Armed Forces of Ukraine twice for violating the rules of work in combat areas.

More information here:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/09/19/7420459/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/09/19/7420459/)

______
It is a shame that a newspaper like the New York Times publishes articles paid for by Russians or publishes authors who work for Russian terrorists.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 19, 2023, 15:49
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 02:26
If trump returns to power, today's 32% will become a solid majority. They will dictate the policies in Congress and in the White House. And then you will kiss goodbye to all US aid for Ukraine.

Be careful what you wish for!
Where did you get this 32%? Did you count it yourself?
Even if this is so, 100-32 = 70% (approximately), then 70% + all the democrats you like so much = Ukraine will continue to have the support of the United States. It's simple.
And what kind of US assistance do you constantly write about? Do you mean money? Ukraine needs weapons on the battlefield. And the Democrats practically do not provide weapons, especially those that are needed.
Once again, do not forget that Congress consists of 2 parties, regardless of the election results.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 02:29
Zelenskyy: russia is a terrorist state, it has no right to possess nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 02:33
Volodymyr Zelensky's speech at UN General Assembly (full text)

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3763502-volodymyr-zelenskys-speech-at-un-general-assembly-full-text.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3763502-volodymyr-zelenskys-speech-at-un-general-assembly-full-text.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 20, 2023, 06:23
If trump returns to power, today's 32% will become a solid majority. They will dictate the policies in Congress and in the White House. And then you will kiss goodbye to all US aid for Ukraine.

Be careful what you wish for!
Where did you get this 32%? Did you count it yourself?
Even if this is so, 100-32 = 70% (approximately), then 70% + all the democrats you like so much = Ukraine will continue to have the support of the United States. It's simple.
And what kind of US assistance do you constantly write about? Do you mean money? Ukraine needs weapons on the battlefield. And the Democrats practically do not provide weapons, especially those that are needed.
Once again, do not forget that Congress consists of 2 parties, regardless of the election results.

You can even say I was conservative:

Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) put forth one amendment to strike $300 million in Ukraine funding that failed 89-341, with 130 Republicans joining all Democrats in voting against it.

Another proposal from Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.), which would have prohibited all security assistance for Ukraine, similarly failed 70-358 on the House floor, with 149 Republicans opposing it.


89 × 100/(89+130)  = 40.6% of Republicans
70 x 100/(70 + 149) = 31.9% of Republicans

+ many of those who voted against those shamefull republican initiatives will retire or be replaced by maga/trump loyalists (like the ones who initiated those bills), once trump wins the nomination.

The United States has provided the most military aid to Ukraine during the russo-Ukrainian War.
 Congress has approved $113 billion in aid for Ukraine since the war began on February 24, 2022. This averages to $223 million per day or $6.8 billion per month.
The United States has provided the most military aid to Ukraine. The European Union and its countries have provided the most total aid, which includes military, financial, and humanitarian aid.


In case you didn't realize $113 billions is close to two times the total Ukraine budget for 2022.

You can kiss that goodbye when your maga loyalists will seize power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 07:27
"Each decade Russia starts a new war. Parts of Moldova and Georgia remain occupied. Russia turned Syria into ruins. And if not Russia, the chemical weapons would have never been used there, in Syria.

Russia has almost swallowed Belarus. It is obviously threatening Kazakhstan and other Baltic states. And the goal of the present war against Ukraine is to turn our lands, our people, our lives, our resources into a weapon against you." - President Zelenskyy at the UN General Assembly.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1704211657293967392
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 07:39
In case you didn't realize $113 billions is close to two times the total Ukraine budget for 2022.

You can kiss that goodbye when your maga loyalists will seize power.
I don’t know what kind of money this is and where it even went. This money is definitely not needed on the battlefield. Democrats do not provide Ukraine with the necessary weapons and in the required quantity. These are the facts. Republicans may not give Ukraine money, but there is hope that they will give the necessary weapons. This is understandable and this is clear. The policies of the Democrats lead to the fact that Ukraine will be slowly and painfully destroyed.
Are you looking at the situation at the front? Do you see that the Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot advance normally? Ukraine is using World War I tactics because the democrats do not give weapons to Ukraine..
Putin’s agents like Elon Musk are already writing that Ukraine is liberating very little territory and that there is no need to give it weapons. A Russian troll here on the forum triumphantly publishes an article posted by Russians in the New York Times in which Ukraine is accused of killing its own citizens. These are all the results of Democratic rule.

$113 billion, come to Ukraine on the battlefield and you are unlikely to find a soldier who can tell you what kind of money it is and where it was spent.
Yes, some weapons of course arrived, not many, but they arrived, but these weapons do not solve anything. Ukraine needs aviation and long- and medium-range missiles and a lot of shells, tanks and artillery. Democrats are not giving Ukraine all this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 07:43
Zero Talent, Ukraine has no other choice but to hope for the Republicans to come to power. With Democrats in power in the US, Ukraine will be destroyed by the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 07:50
89 × 100/(89+130)  = 40.6% of Republicans
70 x 100/(70 + 149) = 31.9% of Republicans
Not all of these 89 and 70 Republicans are against Ukraine and for russia. Some of them believe that the EU should give money or that Ukraine should report on the allocated money or an audit should be carried out. Therefore your math is not accurate and incorrect. And as I already wrote, Ukraine does not need money, but weapons, which the cowardly democrats do not want to give.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 20, 2023, 09:14
Zero Talent, Ukraine has no other choice but to hope for the Republicans to come to power. With Democrats in power in the US, Ukraine will be destroyed by the Russians.

Ir's ironic that both you and putin are rooting for trump to return to power...   ::)

russian president vladimir putin recently said he was "happy" to hear Trump's promise to "resolve all burning issues within several days" — including the war in Ukraine.

Think about it.

89 × 100/(89+130)  = 40.6% of Republicans
70 x 100/(70 + 149) = 31.9% of Republicans
Not all of these 89 and 70 Republicans are against Ukraine and for russia. Some of them believe that the EU should give money or that Ukraine should report on the allocated money or an audit should be carried out. Therefore your math is not accurate and incorrect. And as I already wrote, Ukraine does not need money, but weapons, which the cowardly democrats do not want to give.

Oooh... but they are... they are isolationists... and their number is growing and will become a majority under trump.

... and it's the other way around:

The United States has provided the most military aid to Ukraine. The European Union and its countries have provided the most total aid, which includes military, financial, and humanitarian aid.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 09:36
Ir's ironic that both you and putin are rooting for trump to return to power...   ::)

russian president vladimir putin recently said he was "happy" to hear Trump's promise to "resolve all burning issues within several days" — including the war in Ukraine.

Think about it.
putin is an agent of the KGB, relying on what he says publicly is the wrong path. I have seen the Republican policy under Trump, it is more comprehensive and strategically correct than the Democratic policy.

The United States has provided the most military aid to Ukraine.
Yes, the EU provides very few weapons. And compared to the EU, the US probably looks better. But this is a dead end conversation. I have already written many times about what Ukraine needs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 20, 2023, 09:42
Ukraine does not need money, but weapons, which the cowardly democrats do not want to give.

Here is a comprehensive list of the military aid provided and planned to be provided to Ukraine by the US government:


Tanks
31 M1A1 Abrams [To be delivered]
45 T-72B tanks (manufactured by Excalibur Army, purchase and upgrade financed by USA) [delivered from December 2022 onwards]

Infantry fighting vehicles
186 M2A2 ODS Bradleys [Delivered from April 2023 onwards]

Armoured personnel carriers
300 M113s [Delivered from July 2022 onwards]
300 armoured medical treatment vehicles [To be delivered]
250 M1117 ASVs [To be delivered]
157 Strykers [Delivered from March 2023 onwards]

Command vehicles
4 Bradley Fire Support Team vehicles [February 2023]
10 command post vehicles

Mine-resistant ambush protected vehicles
440 International M1224 MaxxPro [Delivered from July or August 2022 onwards]
37 Cougars [February 2023]
Oshkosh M-ATVs [March 2023]
289 Unknown MRAPs [To be delivered. 108 pledged in January 2023, 181 more pledged in February 2023]
190 MRAPs to the Ukrainian Border Guard Service [To be delivered]

Infantry mobility vehicles
2,000+ Humvees [Delivered from April 2022 onwards]
100+ Light Tactical Vehicles [To be delivered]

Other vehicles
68 trucks and 124 trailers to transport heavy equipment
6 armored utility trucks
100 armored medical treatment vehicles
89 heavy fuel tankers and 105 fuel trailers
8 logistics support vehicles

Towed artillery
180 155mm M777 howitzers [Delivered from April 2022 onwards]
72 105mm Howitzers [To be delivered]

Self-propelled artillery
18 155mm “Paladin” M109A6s [May 2023]

Multiple rocket launchers
20 227mm HIMARS [June 2022] (further 18 to be delivered)

Surface-to-air missile systems
8 NASAMS Batteries [Delivered from November 2022 onwards]
2+ MIM-23 Hawk firing units [February 2023]

Unknown number of MIM-23 Hawk Phase III missiles and missile systems [To be delivered] (US buying back after Taiwan decommissioned the system in June 2023)
20 AN/TWQ-1 Avengers [Delivered from December 2022 onwards]
1 Patriot Battery [April 2023]

Self-propelled anti-aircraft guns
9 Counter Unmanned Aerial Systems (c-UAS) gun trucks [To be delivered]

Man-portable air defense systems
Over 2,000 Stinger anti-aircraft systems

Anti-tank missiles
Over 10,000 Javelin anti-armor systems.
Over 80,000 other anti-armor systems and munitions.
Over 7,000 Tube-Launched, Optically-Tracked, Wire-Guided (TOW) missiles.

Other missiles
2 AGM-84 Harpoon (Launcher and an unknown number of missiles) [July 2022]
Precision-Guided Munitions (PGMs) [July or August 2022] (Fired from MiG-29 and Su-27 fighter aircraft)
AGM-88 HARMs [Delivered from July or August 2022 onwards] (Fired from MiG-29 fighter aircraft)
Laser-Guided Rockets (Believed to be APKWS) [Delivered from April 2022 onwards]
RIM-7 missiles for air defense [To be delivered] (For use by Ukrainian Buk SAM systems).
Over 6,000 Zuni aircraft rockets.
Over 20,000 Hydra 70 aircraft rockets.
ADM-160 MALD decoy missiles [May 2023].
AIM-7 and AIM-9M missiles for air defence.

Electronic warfare equipment
Electronic jamming equipment [May or June 2022]
Vampire counter-unmanned aerial systems [To be delivered]

Helicopters
20 Mi-17V5s (originally destined for Afghanistan) [Delivered from April 2022 onwards]

Drones
100 Switchblade 300 kamikaze drones [April 2022]
10 Switchblade 600 kamikaze drones [To be delivered]
300 Switchblade kamikaze drones of unknown type [Delivered from April 2022 onwards]
1,801 Phoenix Ghosts [To be delivered]
RQ-20 Pumas [April 2022]
15 Boeing Insitu ScanEagles [To be delivered]
Jump 20 reconnaissance UAVs [To be delivered]
Altius-600 reconnaissance UAVs [To be delivered]
CyberLux K8 reconnaissance UAVs [To be delivered]
Penguins reconnaissance UAVs [To be delivered]

Radars
26 AN/TPQ-36 Firefinder weapon-locating radars [Delivered from April 2022 onwards]
AN/TPQ-37 weapons locating radars [Before April 2023]
4 AN/MPQ-64 Sentinel air surveillance radars [April 2022 onwards; 4 more pledged in February 2023]
Over 70 counter-artillery and counter-mortar radars [At least 4 delivered from April 2022 onwards]
20 Multi-mission radars [To be delivered]

Engineering equipment
M58 Mine clearing line charge [Delivered before October 2022]
22 M1089A1P2 and M984A4 HEMTT [Delivered around October 2022]
8 M88A2 Hercules [Delivered around October 2022]
6 Unspecified tactical recovery vehicles [Delivered by February 2023]
300+ tactical vehicles to tow weapons
71 tactical vehicles to recover equipment
30 ammunition support vehicles [To be delivered along with M109 artillery]
18 armored bridging systems

Ships and underwater vehicles
16 Mark VI patrol boats [17 June 2020]
10 Dauntless Sea Ark Patrol Boats [Delivered from September or October 2022 onwards]
2 Small unit riverine craft (SURC) [To be delivered]
6 40-foot riverine patrol boats [To be delivered]
Unmanned Coastal Defence Vessels (USVs) [To be delivered]
40 Armoured riverine boats [To be delivered]

Mortars
47 120mm mortar systems
10 82mm mortar systems
122 81mm mortar systems;
58 60mm mortar systems;
Over 35,000 grenade launchers and small arms;

Ammunition
Over 2,000,000 155mm artillery rounds
Over 7,000 precision-guided 155mm artillery rounds
Over 14,000 155mm rounds of Remote Anti-Armor Mine (RAAM) Systems
100,000 rounds of 125mm tank ammunition
200,000 152mm artillery rounds
40,000 130mm artillery rounds
40,000 122mm artillery rounds
60,000 122mm GRAD rockets
500,000 105mm artillery rounds
10,000 203mm artillery rounds
Over 400,000 mortar rounds
Over 1,800,000 rounds of 25mm ammunition
Over 300,000,000 rounds of small arms ammunition
M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel munitions
C-4 explosives, demolition munitions, and demolition equipment for obstacle clearing

Military gear
Over 100,000 sets of body armor and helmets
Explosive ordnance disposal equipment and protective gear
Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear protective equipment
Cold weather gear

Miscellaneous equipment
Obstacle emplacement equipment;
Tactical secure communications systems
Four satellite communications antennas
SATCOM terminals and services
Thousands of night vision devices, surveillance systems, thermal imagery systems, optics, and laser rangefinders
Commercial satellite imagery services
Over 350 generators
Medical supplies to include first aid kits, bandages, monitors, and other equipment;
Field equipment and spare parts
An industrial 3D printer for producing components and repairing military equipment.

You're welcome!  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on September 20, 2023, 10:33
This Rashist and Russian troll cannot even answer the question whose Crimea is. And you want him to rebel against his tsar.  ::)
You've gone too far with your insults, CIPSO agent. The troll acting according to the SBU (successor of the Ukrainian branch of the Soviet KGB) guidelines is just you. And you’re mad because I come here to expose your constant fakes.
I repeat: Until February 15, 2023, I see no mention of War in your forum posts. But from that moment hate propaganda suddenly poured out of you. Propaganda in which the truth is mixed with fakes. Why such strong and sudden changes after a year of war? It is "highly likely" that you got a new job in CIPSO (Center for Information and Psychological Operations) troll factory and now you are brainwashing the readers of this forum. You deny the obvious, you call everyone who has a different opinion from the liar Zelensky an agent of Putin and present everything in black and white. Am I right, Keyboard CIPSO Warrior?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 11:20
How to wage the financial war against Russia’s economy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/17/russia-sanctions-oil-cap-economy/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/17/russia-sanctions-oil-cap-economy/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 20, 2023, 11:28
Tanks
31 M1A1 Abrams [To be delivered]
45 T-72B tanks (manufactured by Excalibur Army, purchase and upgrade financed by USA) [delivered from December 2022 onwards]
It's not serious at all. Google how many tanks Russian terrorists have.
Everything else is only partially delivered. But even if it is delivered, it will all be only to somehow hold the defense, but not to attack!
Where are aviation and missiles on the list? Ukraine needs a lot more tanks. Ukraine needs at least 300 thousand shells every month.
Why look at this list, just look at how difficult and slow the Ukrainian Armed Forces are advancing, because there is no aviation, no missiles. It is not the tanks that cover the infantry, but the infantry that goes ahead of the tanks so that the tanks do not get blown up by mines. There is no equipment for mine clearance. There is no air support to protect tanks.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on September 20, 2023, 18:58
Morawiecki officially stated that the times Poland was sending arms to Ukraine are now gone and the role of Poland and transit country is deeply under question. Also they are planning to stop all financial support for Ukrainian refugees.

Polish ministry of foreign affairs called Ukrainian ambassador for a talk after Clownsky UN speech.

It's more and more clear that the clown literary destroyed his nation serving as puppet that pulled his people in the middle of imperialist world domination game.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 21, 2023, 03:38
Ukraine strikes Russia’s Saky air base in occupied Crimea  8) 8) 8)

The Security Service of Ukraine and the Naval Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine launched a massive fire attack on Russia’s Saky military air base in the temporarily occupied Crimea last night.
This is reported by Ukrinform, referring to sources in the Security Service of Ukraine.

“According to the data from our sources, at least 12 combat aircraft (Su-24 and Su-30) were in the airfield, as well as the Pantsir missile system. A training base of the Mojaher unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) operators was also located there. Russians use these UAVs to coordinate their air attacks and as combat drones,” the interlocutors told.

According to them, Ukrainian attacks reached the target and caused serious damage to Russian military equipment.

The Security Service of Ukraine mentioned that Ukrainian defenders had used drones to overload Russia’s air defenses, and then fired the Neptune missiles.

Pro-Russian Telegram channels are confirming the significant damage and losses. At least 30 Russian servicemen were reported killed.

The Security Service of Ukraine expressed confidence that Russian occupiers can no longer feel safe within the temporarily occupied Crimea.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on September 21, 2023, 08:16

the point is NATO's expansion plan to the east,which in the end will inevitably also involve China.

Putin's government will soon end,times are changing,NATO will continue to expand,it is now an unbeatable superpower,neither China nor anyone can now openly challenge NATO,not even the three allied dragon heads can do anything against NATO anymore,they know it too.

The consequence of all this is inevitable,I see a not too distant future in which China will join NATO after other Asian countries will join first.
You write illusions, the reality is completely different.
The third world war is underway, and it is not known how it will end. Especially when the Democrats are in power in the United States.

and you write sci-fi books because there will be no WWIII.

yes,at the beginning of the conflict the iron fist of the republicans was needed,but at this stage the democrats are better suited,it seems to me that the current American government is quite good at diplomacy,just what is needed now.

I understand but I do not fully agree with Zelensky's words to the UN Security Council,I understand that he is angry and has every reason to be,but Russia must not be removed from the Security Council,because now more than ever it is important that it continues to be present.

In my opinion the only thing that should be done is to arrest and convict Putin of war crimes and put an end to all this,That's what will happen anyway,it's just a matter of time.

There won't even be any war between the US and China over Taiwan.

whatever happens in Italy we already have an army of 200,000 soldiers ready to fight alongside our allies,which for a small country like Italy is a lot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 21, 2023, 08:57
and you write sci-fi books because there will be no WWIII.
:o :o :o

but Russia must not be removed from the Security Council,because now more than ever it is important that it continues to be present.
:o :o :o

In my opinion the only thing that should be done is to arrest and convict Putin of war crimes and put an end to all this,That's what will happen anyway,it's just a matter of time.
:'( :'( :'(

There won't even be any war between the US and China over Taiwan.
::) ::) ::)

whatever happens in Italy we already have an army of 200,000 soldiers ready to fight alongside our allies,which for a small country like Italy is a lot.
8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 21, 2023, 12:59
 >:( >:( >:(

Ukraine Asks Germany to Halt Machinery Headed for russia
German-made machinery for weapons bound for Russia via Turkey
Anti-corruption watchdog sends letter to Germany, producer

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-18/ukraine-asks-germany-to-halt-ammunition-tool-headed-for-russia?srnd=premium-europe (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-18/ukraine-asks-germany-to-halt-ammunition-tool-headed-for-russia?srnd=premium-europe)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 21, 2023, 13:02
China helping to arm russia with helicopters, drones and metals
Russian firms have received tens of thousands of Chinese shipments since the war in Ukraine began

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/19/china-helping-arm-russia-helicopters-drones-metals-xi-putin/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/08/19/china-helping-arm-russia-helicopters-drones-metals-xi-putin/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 21, 2023, 13:17
Ukraine has won a massive naval victory without having a navy
Russia's hold over Sevastopol is slipping, with huge implications for the Black Sea Fleet
 8)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/21/ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-russia-navy-blockade/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/21/ukraine-war-zelensky-putin-russia-navy-blockade/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on September 21, 2023, 13:22
Zero Talent, we are discussing only two parties. Democratic and Republican.
You are frightening that if the Republicans come to power, it will be worse for Ukraine. Yes, your horror stories may have a certain percentage of truth, this is called risks. I do not like and do not tolerate stagnation, double standards and trading on Ukrainian blood. The third world war is underway. And if the Democrats are not effective, what fool would support them? If the Republicans come and turn out to be worse than the Democrats, then they will not have support either.
But, I saw the foreign policy of the Republicans when Trump was president, I liked this policy more than the policy of the Democrats. You understand much of what the Republicans say very crudely and do not fully understand what they want to do. This is your problem.
If I were deciding who to give power to in the United States, I would have given power to the Republicans a year ago.

Republicans are willing and able to pursue a more comprehensive foreign policy than Democrats do. Republicans want not only the defeat of the Russians, but also a significant weakening of China. Only under Republican leadership can the democratic world defeat the Chinese dragon.

I don't know if you've been following the news today.

The fact is, Biden has asked the U.S. Congress to provide $24 billion in additional military aid to Ukraine. Republicans, however, are reacting skeptically - support for Ukraine in Republican ranks is on the decline.
 
Maybe you should think about it and inform yourself!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 21, 2023, 22:38
Ir's ironic that both you and putin are rooting for trump to return to power...   ::)

russian president vladimir putin recently said he was "happy" to hear Trump's promise to "resolve all burning issues within several days" — including the war in Ukraine.

Think about it.
I have seen the Republican policy under Trump, it is more comprehensive and strategically correct than the Democratic policy.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/politics/republicans-zelensky-ukraine-polls-skeptical/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/politics/republicans-zelensky-ukraine-polls-skeptical/index.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 22, 2023, 03:09
He is never going to get it. He lives in Moldova so is next in line of Russia succeeds in Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66882161 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66882161)

Biden and other Western leaders (Polish ones in the case above) are walking a tightrope.

Far right populists are seizing the chance to drive wedge on Ukraine spending. Many voters in other countries are fickle. If they feel like they are doing good they will get behind a cause. If they think there is a chance of escalation or real sacrifice on their part they’re out. The narrative does matter, even places like here. It’s why Russia spends millions on troll farms to spout propaganda all over the internet.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 22, 2023, 03:51

I don't know if you've been following the news today.

The fact is, Biden has asked the U.S. Congress to provide $24 billion in additional military aid to Ukraine. Republicans, however, are reacting skeptically - support for Ukraine in Republican ranks is on the decline.
 
Maybe you should think about it and inform yourself!
I wrote about this yesterday in this thread.
In short, the Republicans' position is correct and they are asking the right questions.
You are trying to interpret very directly what is written in the press. The press is not analytics, it’s just some kind of news.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 22, 2023, 03:56
Ir's ironic that both you and putin are rooting for trump to return to power...   ::)

russian president vladimir putin recently said he was "happy" to hear Trump's promise to "resolve all burning issues within several days" — including the war in Ukraine.

Think about it.
I have seen the Republican policy under Trump, it is more comprehensive and strategically correct than the Democratic policy.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/politics/republicans-zelensky-ukraine-polls-skeptical/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/21/politics/republicans-zelensky-ukraine-polls-skeptical/index.html)
There's a lot of conflicting information out there. But in general, Biden’s policies are very bad, the Democrats spend huge amounts of money, but the necessary weapons do not reach Ukraine and the Armed Forces of Ukraine do not have quick success. The Republicans are right, Biden shouldn't be allowed to spend money if he's a coward and can't spend the money properly. These are all the results of the policies of cowardly Democrats.
That coward Biden signed the Lend-Lease Act over a year ago, but has not delivered a single gun under that law. The Lend-Lease Act allows us not to waste US taxpayers' money; according to this law, weapons must be supplied to Ukraine, and the list is determined by the Pentagon. After the Russians are eliminated in Ukraine, these weapons are returned to the United States. Everything is fast, efficient and doesn’t cost a lot of money. But Biden is a coward, so he spends a lot of money on unknown things.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 22, 2023, 03:59
He is never going to get it. He lives in Moldova so is next in line of Russia succeeds in Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66882161 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66882161)

Biden and other Western leaders (Polish ones in the case above) are walking a tightrope.

Far right populists are seizing the chance to drive wedge on Ukraine spending. Many voters in other countries are fickle. If they feel like they are doing good they will get behind a cause. If they think there is a chance of escalation or real sacrifice on their part they’re out. The narrative does matter, even places like here. It’s why Russia spends millions on troll farms to spout propaganda all over the internet.
There are elections in Poland now, that's why politicians are making such statements. After the elections, Poland will continue to supply weapons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 22, 2023, 04:11
US Democrats! Ukraine doesn't need your money! Ukraine only needs weapons! Lots of weapons! Don't be cowards!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 22, 2023, 04:15
 >:( >:( >:(

Export schedule of European countries to Kyrgyzstan

🔺Poland's exports in the first 5 months of 2023 compared to the first 5 months of 2019 increased by 1990% (blue graph).
🔺Germany grew by +1300% (black graph).
🔺The Czech Republic grew by +1300% (red graph).
🔺Hungary - by +485% (orange chart).

https://t.me/Ateobreaking/99070

For those who don’t understand, this is all going to russia through Kyrgyzstan.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 22, 2023, 04:17
So, Germany leads the EU in trade and support for Russians. Scholz is the successor to KGB agent Merkel.
Well, never mind, when the Republicans come to power, this will be quickly fixed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 22, 2023, 04:32
He lives in Moldova
Who are you talking about? I don't live in Moldova.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 22, 2023, 04:52
He lives in Moldova
Who are you talking about? I don't live in Moldova.
Oh sorry, I thought another poster said you did. Where are you if you don't mind me asking?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 22, 2023, 06:25
Exclusive: Satellite images show increased activity at nuclear test sites in russia, China and US

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/22/asia/nuclear-testing-china-russia-us-exclusive-intl-hnk-ml/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/22/asia/nuclear-testing-china-russia-us-exclusive-intl-hnk-ml/index.html)

The terrorist country called russia must be separated from the world by an iron wall. The Russian Empire must be liquidated!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on September 22, 2023, 06:42
He lives in Moldova
Who are you talking about? I don't live in Moldova.
Oh sorry, I thought another poster said you did. Where are you if you don't mind me asking?

I have absolutely no idea where he lives or who he is,sometimes I think he's a Martian :D ,but he's probably an old-fashioned American Republican.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 23, 2023, 03:09
Armed Forces of Ukraine confirm strike on Russian Black Sea Fleet headquarters

The Department of Strategic Communications of the Office of the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine confirmed that the Defense Forces had successfully launched a strike on the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation in the temporarily occupied Sevastopol around 12:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6vnxcKOmUE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6vnxcKOmUE)

 8) 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D


Ukraine's attack on the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol has killed at least 9 people and wounded 16. Russian generals are among them.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/09/23/7421065/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/09/23/7421065/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 24, 2023, 09:19
Ukrainian soldiers instead of Cossacks. French artist recreates Illia Riepin's famous painting in photo

French artist Emeric Lhuisset has recreated a painting by Ukrainian artist Illia Riepin, Cossacks Write a Letter to the Turkish Sultan, in a photo. The painting depicts the modern Ukrainian troops instead of the Cossacks.

The title of the work is I Hear the Cossacks’ Response from Afar, as reported by the BBC.

The artist spent a year working on the project. It features soldiers of the 112th Territorial Defence Brigade. The figure in the centre is Roman, the author of the Ukrainian catchphrase "Russian warship, go fuck yourself" (the final communication made on 24 February, the first day of the Russian full-scale invasion of Ukraine, by Ukrainian border guard Roman Hrybov to the Russian missile cruiser Moskva – ed.).

On his Instagram account, the photo's author noted the importance of culture in war.

"While the war intended to conquer the Ukrainian territory is visible to all and its condemnation relatively consensual in Europe, the much more insidious war which is being played out around the control of history and culture remains very much unknown and many Europeans participate, often unconsciously, to the diffusion of this Russian colonial construction," Emeric said.
He believes culture is a weapon on a vast battlefield, so we should not forget about it.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6uYfwLXQAALKXb?format=webp&name=900x900)

Background: The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York recognised the artists Illia Riepin and Ivan Aivazovskyi as Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 24, 2023, 09:21
Ukrainian artist Illia Riepin, Cossacks Write a Letter to the Turkish Sultan.

Painting in 1891.

(https://kpi.ua/files/styles/story/public/images-story/n1620.jpg?itok=jG7iXk51)

In popular culture

"Ilya Repin's Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks (c. 1890)
The sultan–Cossack correspondence became extremely popular at the start of the Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878). By then, the most popularised versions of the story centred on the Zaporozhian Cossacks (from "beyond the rapids", Ukrainian: za porohamy), inhabiting the lands around the lower Dnieper River in Ukraine, who had supposedly just defeated Ottoman Empire forces in battle some time in the 1670s. However, despite his army having suffered this loss to them, Ottoman sultan Mehmed IV demanded that the Cossacks submit to Ottoman rule. The Cossacks, led by Ivan Sirko, replied in a characteristic manner; they wrote a letter, replete with insults and profanities. The late-19th-century painting by Ilya Repin, Reply of the Zaporozhian Cossacks, exhibits the Cossacks' pleasure at striving to come up with ever more base vulgarities. In the 19th century, the historical Zaporozhian Cossacks were sometimes the subject of picaresque tales demonstrating admiration of their primitive vitality and contemptuous disregard for authority."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 25, 2023, 10:27
 8) 8) 8)

Source: press office of the Special Operations Forces (SOF) of Ukraine.

Quote: "Updated information on enemy losses as a result of the SOF’s special operation to destroy the Minsk landing ship and the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation.

Because the Minsk landing ship was due to go on combat duty the next day, personnel were on board. Irretrievable losses amounted to 62 occupiers.

Following the destruction of the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, 34 officers died, including the commander of the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Another 105 occupiers were wounded. The headquarters building is beyond repair.

We are moving forward!"


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 28, 2023, 12:59
It is only a matter of time before Ukraine becomes a de jure member of NATO – Volodymyr Zelenskyy following the meeting with Jens Stoltenberg in Kyiv.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 28, 2023, 13:01
Olena Zelenska in an interview with CBS: It's not enough for the world to be aware of the violence of Russians against Ukrainian children – criminals must be punished.

(https://www.president.gov.ua/storage/j-image-storage/37/03/33/6d8625c1ea7c2b9889eee3907cff114a_1695895859_extra_large.jpeg)

Victims of the violence committed by the Russian military against Ukrainian children will begin to testify en masse when they see that the perpetrators are punished, and Ukraine relies on the world's help in establishing justice in this matter. This was stated by First Lady Olena Zelenska in an interview with CBS during her visit to the United States.

The President's wife, in particular, emphasized that Russian crimes against Ukrainian children are deliberate intimidation.

"There are so many of them that these cannot be isolated cases, this is deliberate intimidation. When you tell the world that our Prosecutor General's Office is investigating 231 cases of sexual violence committed by the Russian military, that there are 13 children among the victims: 12 girls and one boy, and that the youngest victim was only 4 years old, you see sheer horror in the eyes of the audience. But this is not enough. There must be punishment. Victims will not start testifying en masse until they see that there is justice," the First Lady said.

She spoke about more than 19,000 children abducted by Russia (these are only those who are known for certain) and how Ukraine is forced to turn to free nations to speed up their return.

Olena Zelenska also emphasized the importance of psychological rehabilitation of Ukrainians after what they experienced during the war and spoke about the All-Ukrainian Mental Health Program.

"We have a huge need for psychologists and psychotherapists. At the same time, Ukrainian doctors gain such powerful experience in extremely difficult conditions that they can share it themselves. The international best practices we borrowed from our partners had to be improved to the point where the program became unique. And now our specialists will be able to share their unique experience," the President's wife said.

The First Lady informed of the activities of the Olena Zelenska Foundation in terms of humanitarian, educational and medical assistance to Ukrainians.

She also focused on her cultural diplomacy projects, including the opening of Ukrainian bookshelves in the world's libraries and the launch of audio guides in Ukrainian at major tourist attractions.

"Culture makes us who we are. If you destroy culture, it will be easier to destroy people. For a long time, numerous manifestations of our culture were considered Russian, it was colonization. Now we are decolonizing our culture. Unfortunately, the world knows little about it. We are fixing this now. We have a lot to show the world to tell them who we are, what we love, what we think about," Olena Zelenska summarized.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 28, 2023, 13:06
Tucker Carlson finds a new booster: Russian TV.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/25/tucker-carlson-takes-dubbing-debut-russia-show/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/25/tucker-carlson-takes-dubbing-debut-russia-show/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 28, 2023, 13:10
Russia strikes cities across Ukraine hours after Zelensky addresses the U.N.


https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/09/21/world/zelensky-russia-ukraine-news?searchResultPosition=2#russia-ukraine-kyiv-attacks (https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/09/21/world/zelensky-russia-ukraine-news?searchResultPosition=2#russia-ukraine-kyiv-attacks)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 28, 2023, 14:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEDYcrWn4Pc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEDYcrWn4Pc)

Elimination of Russian orcs.
Andriivka, Ukraine: close combat and clearing of a destroyed village.

Continuation of the combat operation of the soldiers of the Third Assault Brigade to liberate Andriivka settlement of Donetsk region. Video footage from GoPro cameras of fighters of the 2nd Assault Battalion.

After the first buildings of the village were taken the day before, the stormtroopers began to move deep into the settlement and clear the basements of the destroyed buildings, destroying the occupiers from the 72nd omsbr of the Russian Federation. At the ruins of Andriivka, the soldiers of the 3rd OShBr are engaged in close-range shooting battles when the enemy is "in the house opposite", and they go forward, fulfilling the task, under constant artillery fire.

Assault and sweep continues all day. When the sun is almost hidden behind the horizon, the fighters take a break, summing up the first results of the day's battles and preparing to move on.


In the subtitles you can choose an English translation. Loud screams are mainly obscene language addressed to the Russians and an offer to the Russians to surrender.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 29, 2023, 07:00
A lot of words, but you still have not named the parties:

Which party has always voted unanimously to support Ukraine, and which party is relentlessly attempting to stop all aid, by trying to get anti-Ukraine bills passed in the Congress?

Here is the a speech from a few moments ago:

https://youtu.be/zPitEXBh06s

Rest assured that you will never get this from trump nor any other maga republican!
We've already talked about this. You are passing off a small group of Republicans as the entire Republican Party. Yes, there are different people in the Republican Party, perhaps this adds votes to the party in elections. But these people are very few. Also, not only Republicans, but also Democrats vote in Congress. Democrats can only talk and vote. When the Republicans take power, this will be enough from the Democrats.


Recent vote (september 27th): a majority of Republicans in the House voted against Ukraine.
The number is growing (as I told you) and will continue to grow (as I'm telling you)  ;)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/tBb19fgUbbUVCNji0iA/giphy-downsized.gif)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 29, 2023, 07:35
Tucker Carlson finds a new booster: Russian TV.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/25/tucker-carlson-takes-dubbing-debut-russia-show/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/25/tucker-carlson-takes-dubbing-debut-russia-show/)

Of course.
Carlson is a maga republican darling.

His deep anti-Ukraine positions resonate very well with maga republican voters and their maga republican representatives, the same way they resonate with russian "voters".

No surprise, here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 29, 2023, 09:49
Recent vote (september 27th): a majority of Republicans in the House voted against Ukraine.
The number is growing (as I told you) and will continue to grow (as I'm telling you)  ;)
You are interpreting this vote in a way that benefits the Democrats. Republicans are not against Ukraine, they are against Biden's policies and the Democrats' policies.
Why allow Biden to spend money if that money is being spent ineffectively and incorrectly? This is a signal to Biden.
Biden has 1 more year, he can change his policy and make Ukraine's victory over russia real. In this case, Biden will have a chance to win the next election in 2024. I don't think US citizens like a president who doesn't want to help Ukraine defeat the Russians.
Your Zero Talent posts are only black and white, without delving into the essence of the problem.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 29, 2023, 09:51
Tucker Carlson finds a new booster: Russian TV.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/25/tucker-carlson-takes-dubbing-debut-russia-show/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/25/tucker-carlson-takes-dubbing-debut-russia-show/)

Of course.
Carlson is a maga republican darling.

His deep anti-Ukraine positions resonate very well with maga republican voters and their maga republican representatives, the same way they resonate with russian "voters".

No surprise, here.
Do you have statistics on what percentage of Republican voters watch this Carlson?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 29, 2023, 09:56
Zero Talent, you are a reasonable person and understand what problems and threats Ukraine faces. You must also understand that the President of the United States is not a storyteller or a singer; what is needed is not words, but real and effective help. You also have to understand that if Biden does not provide this assistance, he will not have support among people who are against russia and understand the essence of the problems.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 29, 2023, 09:58
You are interpreting this vote in a way that benefits the Democrats. Republicans are not against Ukraine, they are against Biden's policies and the Democrats' policies.

No. It's the other way around.
Many Republicans are ready to vote these bills, as long as the Ukraine aid is removed from them.
Example from a prominent republican below.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 29, 2023, 11:32
(https://media.giphy.com/media/tBb19fgUbbUVCNji0iA/giphy-downsized.gif)

... and more republican examples to make him happier:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 30, 2023, 02:23
Many Republicans are ready to vote these bills, as long as the Ukraine aid is removed from them.
Example from a prominent republican below.
The election campaign is in full swing in the United States. Republicans consider the Democrats' policies to be ineffective; these are normal things for the United States. Ukraine does not need money, I have already written about this many times. Ukraine needs aviation and missiles, which the cowardly democrats do not want to give.
You are using Ukraine as a weapon in the election fight against the Republicans. It looks dirty.
There is no need to give Democrats the opportunity to spend taxpayers' money on unknown things. Let Biden begin to implement the Lend-Lease that he signed more than a year ago.
Fuck the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 30, 2023, 05:23
Many Republicans are ready to vote these bills, as long as the Ukraine aid is removed from them.
Example from a prominent republican below.
The election campaign is in full swing in the United States. Republicans consider the Democrats' policies to be ineffective; these are normal things for the United States. Ukraine does not need money, I have already written about this many times. Ukraine needs aviation and missiles, which the cowardly democrats do not want to give.
You are using Ukraine as a weapon in the election fight against the Republicans. It looks dirty.
There is no need to give Democrats the opportunity to spend taxpayers' money on unknown things. Let Biden begin to implement the Lend-Lease that he signed more than a year ago.
Fuck the Democrats.
You don't want to see the truth, even when the evidence is screaming in your face, because it's against your deep rooted beliefs.
All weapons Ukraine needs, be them aviation or missiles are costing American taxpayers money.
That's the spending a majority of Republicans is against.

Like you, I care about putin's defeat.
But unlike you, I understand how Amercan politics work.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 30, 2023, 05:30
(https://assets.vogue.com/photos/5faac5affbb8574f720c323b/master/w_1920,c_limit/IMG_1162.JPG)

KGB agent Merkel demands something from the US President. This photo alone is enough to understand that Trump is better than the cowardly Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 30, 2023, 05:32
Many Republicans are ready to vote these bills, as long as the Ukraine aid is removed from them.
Example from a prominent republican below.
The election campaign is in full swing in the United States. Republicans consider the Democrats' policies to be ineffective; these are normal things for the United States. Ukraine does not need money, I have already written about this many times. Ukraine needs aviation and missiles, which the cowardly democrats do not want to give.
You are using Ukraine as a weapon in the election fight against the Republicans. It looks dirty.
There is no need to give Democrats the opportunity to spend taxpayers' money on unknown things. Let Biden begin to implement the Lend-Lease that he signed more than a year ago.
Fuck the Democrats.
You don't want to see the truth, because it's against your deep rooted beliefs, even when the evidence is screaming in your face.

All weapons Ukraine needs, be them aviation or missiles are costing American taxpayers money.
That's the spending a majority of Republicans is against.

Like you, I care about putin's defeat.
But unlike you, I understand how Amercan politics work.
What does the cowardly Democrat Biden even spend his money on? Where are the tanks, where are the aircraft, where are the missiles? All this is missing. The conclusion is simple, there is no need to give money to the Democrats, they spend it on God knows what. Let this money lie in the bank and wait for the Republicans to come to power.
Biden has been president for 4 years now. For a year and a half, Russians have been killing Ukrainians. Where are the weapons?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 30, 2023, 05:41
As I said, even when the evidence is screaming in your face, you refuse to ackowledge the reality.
The money was spent on things like this:

https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg592735/#msg592735 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg592735/#msg592735)

And the photo you think is in your favor is, in fact, 100% against your interest.
That photo is iconic because it represents the American isolationism under Trump. Look at at him with his arms crossed. The photo screams: let the whole world explode (the world includes Ukraine, fyi), I don't care. AMERICA first!
In other words, exactly what a majority of Republicans just voted for.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 30, 2023, 05:42
Zero Talent,  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on September 30, 2023, 05:45
Zero Talent,
I don't know if the Republicans will win, but I don't mind them winning. Your arguments are not serious yet.
And as I said, Biden has 1 year. And for real action he no longer needs money, he just needs to allow the sending of aircraft, missiles and many tanks to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on September 30, 2023, 16:52
Zero Talent,
I don't know if the Republicans will win, but I don't mind them winning. Your arguments are not serious yet.
And as I said, Biden has 1 year. And for real action he no longer needs money, he just needs to allow the sending of aircraft, missiles and many tanks to Ukraine.

Just get in touch with your fellow Ukrainians who can see things clearly and understand which side of the American politics is the worst for Ukraine freedom and teritorial integrity.

Maybe they will convince you to get your head out of the sand:

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 01, 2023, 02:08
Just get in touch with your fellow Ukrainians who can see things clearly and understand which side of the American politics is the worst for Ukraine freedom and teritorial integrity.

Maybe they will convince you to get your head out of the sand:
You can read for yourself what they write in Ukraine. The topic is called "Lies and propaganda of bots of the US Democratic Party." Google translator will translate the topic into any language.

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/)

and

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/nformacjn-resursi/analz-statusu-mltarno-dopomogi-ssha-ukran/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/nformacjn-resursi/analz-statusu-mltarno-dopomogi-ssha-ukran/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 01, 2023, 02:39
Democrats are the best friends of Russian fascists and putin. The Democrats' policy is aimed at preserving the Russian empire, occupying Ukraine and killing Ukrainians. These are the facts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 01, 2023, 04:46
Just get in touch with your fellow Ukrainians who can see things clearly and understand which side of the American politics is the worst for Ukraine freedom and teritorial integrity.

Maybe they will convince you to get your head out of the sand:
You can read for yourself what they write in Ukraine. The topic is called "Lies and propaganda of bots of the US Democratic Party." Google translator will translate the topic into any language.

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/)

and

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/nformacjn-resursi/analz-statusu-mltarno-dopomogi-ssha-ukran/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/nformacjn-resursi/analz-statusu-mltarno-dopomogi-ssha-ukran/)


Thanks for the links, at least now it's clear where you got your information and worldview. This forum of Ukrainian patriots, just like this thread, is dominated by the opinion of exactly one person - who is in possession of the only truth .
To sell this here as a general Ukrainian opinion is a very daring interpretation of one's own.

Apart from disliking and accusing Democrats and Biden, this same person also has a particular opinion on Covid vaccinations:

These vaccinations contribute to the depopulation of the world.

All right.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 01, 2023, 07:44
The Ukraininan soldier, whose post I shared above stated:
A lot of russian psyops officers will get promotions as a result of what is happening today.

I was aware of two types of russian propoganda most of it based on the good old "divide et impera".

- one designed for internal use centered on the non-existence of the Ukranians, the need to protect the great mother russia, Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians are na*is, etc

- one for external use centered on the theme claiming a geopolitical fight between russia and the US both trying to control the world, using Ukraine as a battlefield. This one is embraced by several personalities (Chomsky, Roger Waters, Russell Brand, Mearsheimer, etc) and by several microstockers (lizard, SVH, etc) who think they know better and understand something others can't.

None of these is suitable for Ukrainian use.
But now, thanks to Stocker we have the missing link.

The 3rd conspiracy, designed for Ukrainians claims that russia and the US have a secret Molotov - Ribbentrop type of aggrement.
The US, afraid of the russian power agreed to sacrifice Ukraine based on putin's promise that russia will not go further and invade other countries.

Mind-boggling!

Now, replace the US with Biden/Democrats and there you have it.
At the same time, rest assured that if a Republican was in the White House, our Stocker would have blamed the Republicans. ::)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 01, 2023, 11:00
Just get in touch with your fellow Ukrainians who can see things clearly and understand which side of the American politics is the worst for Ukraine freedom and teritorial integrity.

Maybe they will convince you to get your head out of the sand:
You can read for yourself what they write in Ukraine. The topic is called "Lies and propaganda of bots of the US Democratic Party." Google translator will translate the topic into any language.

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/)

and

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/nformacjn-resursi/analz-statusu-mltarno-dopomogi-ssha-ukran/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/nformacjn-resursi/analz-statusu-mltarno-dopomogi-ssha-ukran/)


Thanks for the links, at least now it's clear where you got your information and worldview. This forum of Ukrainian patriots, just like this thread, is dominated by the opinion of exactly one person - who is in possession of the only truth .
To sell this here as a general Ukrainian opinion is a very daring interpretation of one's own.

Apart from disliking and accusing Democrats and Biden, this same person also has a particular opinion on Covid vaccinations:

These vaccinations contribute to the depopulation of the world.

All right.  ;D
;D  ;D  ;D
In fact, I saw that forum today for the first time, just like you.
Zero Talent himself wrote to me so that I could read what they write in Ukraine. Well, I brought what I found. If you find other information on the Ukrainian Internet about Biden and the Democrats, please provide a link.
Where does that author write about covid and depopulation? Give me a link.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 01, 2023, 11:05
The 3rd conspiracy, designed for Ukrainians claims that russia and the US have a secret Molotov - Ribbentrop type of aggrement.
The US, afraid of the russian power agreed to sacrifice Ukraine based on putin's promise that russia will not go further and invade other countries.

Mind-boggling!

Now, replace the US with Biden/Democrats and there you have it.
At the same time, rest assured that if a Republican was in the White House, our Stocker would have blamed the Republicans. ::)
I write this almost all the time. Not exactly as you wrote. But we constantly see Biden doing geopolitical trade with the Russians. The goods are the provision of aviation to Ukraine, missiles, tanks, permission or prohibition to shoot at russia, non-provision of fighters to Iran and much more. As a result of this trade, Ukrainians die every day. And yes, in fact, Ukrainians sacrifice themselves every day so that the Russians do not launch an attack on the EU.
Regarding the Republicans. I also wrote that if I don’t like their policies, I will also criticize and scold them.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 01, 2023, 11:11
So, I will not claim that everything that is written according to the links I provided today is 100% true. But the fact that there is 90-95% truth there is most likely. Actually, the same professional Russian propaganda uses 80% truth and 20% lies. So, these 90% of the truth written in those links (and this is a lot) are the result of the policies of the Democrats led by Biden.
Ukraine does not receive the necessary weapons from either NATO countries or the United States. Ukraine does not receive enough weapons. Ukraine is constantly limited by lines of where it can shoot and where it cannot shoot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on October 01, 2023, 11:38
Democrats are the best friends of Russian fascists and putin. The Democrats' policy is aimed at preserving the Russian empire, occupying Ukraine and killing Ukrainians. These are the facts.

No, these are not the facts at all!  You think the Democrats are bad because they are too slow to provide the latest weapons - I agree they have been too slow, although part of that is about training and maintenance.  However, you think the Republicans would be better?  The ones who want to withdraw all aid and give Ukraine to Putin?  How is that better?  Why did Putin work so hard to get Trump elected over Clinton?  Because he knew Hillary would be tough on Russia while Trump had been groomed as a Russian asset since the 80s.  If Biden was not in the White House the Russians would have taken over Ukraine long ago and would now be moving on to other countries.  Congress finally passed a stopgap budget yesterday with aid to Ukraine removed because of the Republicans.  Just because Biden is not as aggressive as you think he should be doesn't mean they are helping Putin.  Your "facts" are all wrong - please stop. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 01, 2023, 11:47
Democrats are the best friends of Russian fascists and putin. The Democrats' policy is aimed at preserving the Russian empire, occupying Ukraine and killing Ukrainians. These are the facts.

No, these are not the facts at all!  You think the Democrats are bad because they are too slow to provide the latest weapons - I agree they have been too slow, although part of that is about training and maintenance.  However, you think the Republicans would be better?  The ones who want to withdraw all aid and give Ukraine to Putin?  How is that better?  Why did Putin work so hard to get Trump elected over Clinton?  Because he knew Hillary would be tough on Russia while Trump had been groomed as a Russian asset since the 80s.  If Biden was not in the White House the Russians would have taken over Ukraine long ago and would now be moving on to other countries.  Congress finally passed a stopgap budget yesterday with aid to Ukraine removed because of the Republicans.  Just because Biden is not as aggressive as you think he should be doesn't mean they are helping Putin.  Your "facts" are all wrong - please stop.
F16 fighters, tanks, missiles and shells are not new weapons.
There is hope that, at least for the sake of winning the US elections, Biden will begin supplying these weapons to Ukraine.
I don't think Hillary would have a tough policy towards russia. For example, her husband and former US President Bill Clinton ensured that Ukraine lost all its nuclear potential.
Yes, the Russians supported Trump, but rather so that Trump would pursue a softer policy.
These are all, of course, poorly understood questions: who will be better, Democrats and Biden or Trump and Republicans. I just see that the Democrats' policies are very weak and bad.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 01, 2023, 11:50
Just get in touch with your fellow Ukrainians who can see things clearly and understand which side of the American politics is the worst for Ukraine freedom and teritorial integrity.

Maybe they will convince you to get your head out of the sand:
You can read for yourself what they write in Ukraine. The topic is called "Lies and propaganda of bots of the US Democratic Party." Google translator will translate the topic into any language.

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/)

and

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/nformacjn-resursi/analz-statusu-mltarno-dopomogi-ssha-ukran/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/nformacjn-resursi/analz-statusu-mltarno-dopomogi-ssha-ukran/)


Thanks for the links, at least now it's clear where you got your information and worldview. This forum of Ukrainian patriots, just like this thread, is dominated by the opinion of exactly one person - who is in possession of the only truth .
To sell this here as a general Ukrainian opinion is a very daring interpretation of one's own.

Apart from disliking and accusing Democrats and Biden, this same person also has a particular opinion on Covid vaccinations:

These vaccinations contribute to the depopulation of the world.

All right.  ;D
;D  ;D  ;D
In fact, I saw that forum today for the first time, just like you.
Zero Talent himself wrote to me so that I could read what they write in Ukraine. Well, I brought what I found. If you find other information on the Ukrainian Internet about Biden and the Democrats, please provide a link.
Where does that author write about covid and depopulation? Give me a link.


It is still completely unclear what your intention, your goal is.

If you post a link here, then you should already know to some extent what the content is. I think that it is relatively quickly recognizable that the Ukrainian forum has been hijacked by a completely whacked conspiracy theorist with the pseudonym Wednesday and over 9000 proud posts.

From all the conspiracy nonsense you picked out the statements that fit into your world view - no matter by whom the truths are spread.

The statements in this forum are not entirely harmless either. If this really would represent the opinion of the entire Ukraine - which I do not even remotely assume - then you would actually have to stop the aid immediately. In this respect again a disservice for Ukraine from you.

And no, I will not surf the Ukrainian Internet. Apart from the fact that I don't speak the language, you certainly won't find a realistic opinion here - for that you would have to travel to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 01, 2023, 12:24
1. It is still completely unclear what your intention, your goal is.

2. If you post a link here, then you should already know to some extent what the content is. I think that it is relatively quickly recognizable that the Ukrainian forum has been hijacked by a completely whacked conspiracy theorist with the pseudonym Wednesday and over 9000 proud posts.

3. From all the conspiracy nonsense you picked out the statements that fit into your world view - no matter by whom the truths are spread.

4. The statements in this forum are not entirely harmless either. If this really would represent the opinion of the entire Ukraine - which I do not even remotely assume - then you would actually have to stop the aid immediately. In this respect again a disservice for Ukraine from you.

5. And no, I will not surf the Ukrainian Internet. Apart from the fact that I don't speak the language, you certainly won't find a realistic opinion here - for that you would have to travel to Ukraine.

1. I can't remain silent, so I write.

2. I found a link to this forum on another very popular Ukrainian forum. I have read the information, 80-95% of it is true.

3. You have the right to support Democrats and not believe what is written.

4. What is the opinion of all of Ukraine? In what form do you imagine it? In Ukraine there are TV channels, there are various experts, there are social networks, there are forums. Naturally, official Kyiv cannot afford to criticize Biden and the Democrats. It wouldn't be diplomatic.
But, I watch some experts on Ukrainian TV channels, they say approximately the same as what is written in those links.
Ukrainians on the forums are also not happy with the volume and range of military assistance from Germany, NATO countries and the United States. But many Ukrainians are afraid of Trump, and think that he will be even worse than Biden.
About stopping aid to Ukraine. You either help normally or don’t help at all. This applies not only to Germany, but also to other NATO countries and the USA.

5. Even if you spoke Ukrainian or Russian (in Ukraine everyone knows Russian and many speak it), coming to Ukraine would not give you anything. All these questions are more of an expert nature.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 01, 2023, 19:39
Quote
Be careful what you wish for!

Stocker, you are begining to get what you are wishing for.

Maga republicans managed to stop the aid for Ukraine under the threat to shutdown the US government.
Congrats!  >:(

(https://media.giphy.com/media/tBb19fgUbbUVCNji0iA/giphy-downsized.gif)

Remember, this is only foreshadowing what will happen under a second trump administration, dominated by even more maga republicans.

Sorry Ukraine, you deserve better!  :'(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 02:24
Kurt Volker

"From an internal political point of view, it would be better for the American administration if Ukraine advanced faster. Because they have to make these political arguments in the US, they have to get funding from Congress. But it is very unfair to blame Ukraine for this, when it took us a year to make a decision on the F-16, and we still have not provided ATACMS. We could do more to help Ukraine be faster.

If you ask if you support Ukraine, about 67% of Republicans say yes, we do. When you ask whether it's worth spending that much money, support among Republicans drops to just 40%. And when you explain that this is about 3.5% of the annual US defense budget that we actually gave to Ukraine, and that resulted in Ukraine surviving and Russia tearing itself apart, then the Republican numbers go back to 60 %. So it's a matter of giving them the right information, getting a little ahead of them on the matter. And I think the base of support is here.

The number one thing that Ukraine wants to do now, and I think it will succeed, is to make the land connection between Rostov-on-Don, the occupied part of the Zaporizhzhia region, and Crimea unusable, and to make sure that the bridge over the Kerch Strait cannot be used .

If Ukraine can do these two things, it will have the effect of isolating forces in Crimea for the winter. And I think that it can quite possibly happen already this year."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 02:29
Quote
Be careful what you wish for!
Stocker, you are begining to get what you are wishing for.
Maga republicans managed to stop the aid for Ukraine under the threat to shutdown the US government.
Congrats!  >:(
Remember, this is only foreshadowing what will happen under a second trump administration, dominated by even more maga republicans.
Sorry Ukraine, you deserve better!  :'(

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/)

I see the situation as written in this link. All this money is games and lies of the Democrats. This money doesn't mean anything.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 02:32
Before the elections, the Republicans will prevent the Democrats from doing anything, this is logical. But if Biden allows the supply of necessary weapons to Ukraine, he will receive the support of both Ukraine and Republicans.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 03:42
Today is the birthday of the famous Ukrainian writer Ivan Bahrianyi. I recommend everyone to read his biography and read his works. In my opinion, his prose is excellent!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Bahrianyi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Bahrianyi)

Why I am not going back to the Soviet Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_I_am_not_going_back_to_the_Soviet_Union (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_I_am_not_going_back_to_the_Soviet_Union)

To mark the anniversary of the birth of Ivan Bahrianyi, an article was published in Ukrainian. I recommend everyone to read it using Google Translator.

https://life.pravda.com.ua/culture/2023/10/2/256845/ (https://life.pravda.com.ua/culture/2023/10/2/256845/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 02, 2023, 06:14
Quote
Be careful what you wish for!
Stocker, you are begining to get what you are wishing for.
Maga republicans managed to stop the aid for Ukraine under the threat to shutdown the US government.
Congrats!  >:(
Remember, this is only foreshadowing what will happen under a second trump administration, dominated by even more maga republicans.
Sorry Ukraine, you deserve better!  :'(

https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/ (https://ukrpatriots.com/forum/zagaln-obgovorennya/brehnya-propaganda-ukranskih-botv-demokratichno-part-ssha/)

I see the situation as written in this link. All this money is games and lies of the Democrats. This money doesn't mean anything.

Laughable! 🙄
It's as wished by the applauding guy, whose troll army conquered your thoughts already. Sad!


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 06:18
Zero Talent, no one conquered my thoughts; I only read that text yesterday, diagonally, fluently. I write about the same thing all the time. I don’t have the enthusiasm and joy for the Democrats that you do. I am not participating in the US presidential elections and am not campaigning. I am just writing my thoughts and the opinions of some experts. You constantly attack Republicans and praise Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 06:21
Today is a holiday for Russian trolls. Elon Musk attacked the President of Ukraine with rude accusations and trolling.
 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 02, 2023, 06:27
Zero Talent, no one conquered my thoughts; I only read that text yesterday, diagonally, fluently. I write about the same thing all the time. I don’t have the enthusiasm and joy for the Democrats that you do. I am not participating in the US presidential elections and am not campaigning. I am just writing my thoughts and the opinions of some experts. You constantly attack Republicans and praise Democrats.

You don't understand what I write and you don't want to pay attention to learn something else than your deep rooted beliefs.

I don't attack the republicans, I attack trump, his moronic ideas and isolationist maga voters, who have turned the GoP away from its classical doctrine.

I don't praise Biden or the democrats.
I would gladly vote for an old school republican like Chris Christie or Nikkie Haley instead of Biden, but unfortunately, they stand no chance.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 02, 2023, 06:33
Today is a holiday for Russian trolls. Elon Musk attacked the President of Ukraine with rude accusations and trolling.
 >:( >:( >:(

You mean this?
Welcome to trumpism and maga/russian propaganda ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 06:33
https://www.gazetaprawna.pl/wiadomosci/kraj/artykuly/9311648,morawiecki-do-zelenskiego-polska-przyjela-pare-milionow-ukraincow-wa.html (https://www.gazetaprawna.pl/wiadomosci/kraj/artykuly/9311648,morawiecki-do-zelenskiego-polska-przyjela-pare-milionow-ukraincow-wa.html)

Polish PM Warns Zelenskyy against Close Alliance with Germany

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has warned Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy against a close alliance with Germany.

According to Polish press agency PAP, in his remarks, Morawiecki said during the Prawo i Sprawiedliwość (Law and Justice) party faction's congress in Katowice on Sunday that the Polish government would "protect Polish agriculture from Ukrainian agro-oligarchs".

The prime minister added that Ukrainian President Zelenskyy has recently said "very inappropriate words" at the UN.

"I understand that he is now thinking that he will have a close alliance with Germany. Let me warn you that Germany will always want to reach out to the Russians through the heads of Central European countries," the Polish prime minister said.

Morawiecki stressed that it was Poland that had hosted several million Ukrainians on its soil.

"It was the Poles who welcomed the Ukrainians; it was we who helped the most when the Germans considered sending 5,000 helmets to besieged Kyiv; you should not forget this, President Zelenskyy," the Polish prime minister said.

Poland is in the midst of an election campaign during which the current government often uses anti-German rhetoric.

Relations between Ukraine and Poland are in crisis due to disagreements over trade issues.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 06:35
Zero Talent, no one conquered my thoughts; I only read that text yesterday, diagonally, fluently. I write about the same thing all the time. I don’t have the enthusiasm and joy for the Democrats that you do. I am not participating in the US presidential elections and am not campaigning. I am just writing my thoughts and the opinions of some experts. You constantly attack Republicans and praise Democrats.

You don't understand what I write and you don't want to pay attention and learn something else than your deep rooted beliefs.

I don't attach the republicans, I attack trump, his moronic ideas and isolationist maga voters, who have turned the GoP away from its classical doctrine.

I don't praise Biden or the democrats.
I would gladly vote for an old school republican like Chris Christie or Nikkie Haley instead of Biden, but unfortunately, they stand no chance.
Well then, both Biden and Trump are not effective. That's how it works. I don't like Biden, I don't like Trump. But if we talk about parties, I like the Republicans more.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 06:37
You mean this?
Welcome to trumpism and maga/russian propaganda ::)
Yes. This.
But there is no need to draw conclusions based on the statements of one idiot who works for the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 02, 2023, 07:13
I don't like Biden, I don't like Trump. But if we talk about parties, I like the Republicans more.

You still don't get it. The republicans you like are a minority (like Christie or Haley) on its way to extinction, with no chance to make a change anymore.

The new GoP is the maga party who just voted against Ukraine aid.
It's the party ready to trade Ukrainian land for peace with putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 02, 2023, 07:27
You mean this?
Welcome to trumpism and maga/russian propaganda ::)
Yes. This.
But there is no need to draw conclusions based on the statements of one idiot who works for the Russians.

Do you think he spent time cloning Zelensky's face on the meme?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 10:50
I don't like Biden, I don't like Trump. But if we talk about parties, I like the Republicans more.

You still don't get it. The republicans you like are a minority (like Christie or Haley) on its way to extinction, with no chance to make a change anymore.

The new GoP is the maga party who just voted against Ukraine aid.
It's the party ready to trade Ukrainian land for peace with putin.
I strongly disagree. Only a small percentage of the Republican Party does not want to support Ukraine. When this percentage becomes 45 or more, then I will be against the Republicans.
Well, the fact that you constantly present it as non-support for Ukraine, I have already answered this many times. I am aware of the political situation and what is happening.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 10:52
You mean this?
Welcome to trumpism and maga/russian propaganda ::)
Yes. This.
But there is no need to draw conclusions based on the statements of one idiot who works for the Russians.

Do you think he spent time cloning Zelensky's face on the meme?
Zelesky's neck and forehead are definitely not the same. Either this is another person with Zelensky’s face, or deformities were specially added.

(https://scontent.flwo4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/300995624_3232386630310744_5936659065879751451_n.png?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=49d041&_nc_ohc=Cj-WdjxCyTYAX-6mOaX&_nc_ht=scontent.flwo4-1.fna&oh=00_AfCh8dglm1gEDHjEBo7jxgQD66m51L45BocXYh_4E3d-gQ&oe=6520C73A)

https://www.facebook.com/1963080933907993/photos/a.1963082120574541/3232386633644077/ (https://www.facebook.com/1963080933907993/photos/a.1963082120574541/3232386633644077/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 11:00
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7cIE0GXIAA18i6?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 02, 2023, 11:23

When this percentage becomes 45 or more, then I will be against the Republicans.
You can start doing it right now, since it is already over 50%.

But it doesn't matter. Even if it becomes 100% you will still believe in fairy tales, because that's what the propaganda you listen to convince you to believe in. ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 11:25
Ukraine's resilience is the future resilience of Europe – Volodymyr Zelenskyy during a conversation with EU Foreign Ministers.

"Helping Ukraine is helping the whole world. If Ukraine falls, Russia will start a big war. And not only on the territory of our country. I am sure that today's resilience of Ukraine is the future resilience of the European continent at the very least. I want to thank you for helping us maintain this resilience," the President summarized.

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/stijkist-ukrayini-ce-majbutnya-stijkist-yevropi-volodimir-ze-86025 (https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/stijkist-ukrayini-ce-majbutnya-stijkist-yevropi-volodimir-ze-86025)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 11:28

When this percentage becomes 45 or more, then I will be against the Republicans.
You can start doing it right now, since it is already over 50%.

But it doesn't matter. Even if it becomes 100% you will still believe in fairy tales, because that's what the propaganda you listen to convince you to believe in. ::)
Let's talk about these topics better when Trump or someone else from the Republicans wins the election. Before the elections, these are conversations at the level of faith.
If Trump becomes president, everything will immediately be clear and understandable to everyone.

Now I can only criticize and scold Biden and the Democrats. These people have power and they are doing very little to eliminate the Russian empire.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 11:32
The Morning Show (American TV series).

I recommend watching it. Several episodes of the third season have been released, showing Ukraine and Mariupol after the crimes of the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 02, 2023, 11:42
Zelenskyy: It's been too long since 11th EU sanctions package

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said that the period of time since the EU’s adoption of its latest package of sanctions against the Russian Federation has been too long, and pauses like this prolong Russian aggression.

Source: Zelenkyy in an address to attendees at the meeting of EU foreign ministers.

Zelenkyy emphasised that the sanctions pressure on Russia is clearly not enough. This is primarily evident from the growing number of Russian drone attacks and airstrikes, the president says.

Quote: "More joint work is needed to combat any forms and schemes by which Russia is circumventing sanctions. Any supplies to Russia that allow it to increase military production must be stopped. This is in the clear interest not only of Ukraine, but also everyone in the world who wants to see a speedy end to this war," Zelenskyy said.

Work on the EU’s new sanctions package must also be stepped up, Zelenskyy emphasised.

"Any sanctions pauses increase the duration of the Russian aggression, and the pause since the 11th sanctions package has already been too long," Zelenskyy said.

Sanctions are needed in particular against the Russian nuclear industry – both for what Russia is doing at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant and as a security step against the use of questionable Russian nuclear technologies, Zelenskyy says.

"It is also important to expand sanctions against Iran in sensitive industries, particularly regarding the import of equipment and chemicals. Every Iranian attack drone that hits European cities in Ukraine is a reason for sanctions pressure," Zelenskyy added.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 03, 2023, 03:18
10 facts from the biography of Ivan Bahrianyi.

https://vogue.ua/article/culture/knigi/mi-z-ukrajini-10-faktiv-z-biografiji-ivana-bagryanogo-avtora-tigroloviv-50081.html (https://vogue.ua/article/culture/knigi/mi-z-ukrajini-10-faktiv-z-biografiji-ivana-bagryanogo-avtora-tigroloviv-50081.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 03, 2023, 03:53
We All Need to Keep Supporting Ukraine, Elon

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/03/elon-musk-we-all-need-to-keep-supporting-ukraine/c54ab37a-61a7-11ee-b406-3ea724995806_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/03/elon-musk-we-all-need-to-keep-supporting-ukraine/c54ab37a-61a7-11ee-b406-3ea724995806_story.html)

The Pentagon warns Congress it is running low on money to replace weapons sent to Ukraine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/02/ukraine-russia-war-congress-funding/04a88b0a-613f-11ee-b406-3ea724995806_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/10/02/ukraine-russia-war-congress-funding/04a88b0a-613f-11ee-b406-3ea724995806_story.html)

This is what the U.S. is getting by aiding Ukraine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/10/02/ukraine-aid-great-investment/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/10/02/ukraine-aid-great-investment/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 03, 2023, 04:01
All these articles are of course very interesting, correct and clearly written by democrats. But I have already asked the same question many times, why don’t the Democrats supply aviation, long-range missiles and tanks to Ukraine? Answer, Democrats!
Without these weapons, the US and EU spend money ineffectively and have very, very little effect. The Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot effectively attack Russian fascists without aviation, tanks and missiles with a range of at least 300 km.
Why do Democrats want Ukraine to fight against the Russian Empire using the methods of the First World War?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 03, 2023, 09:25
All these articles are of course very interesting, correct and clearly written by democrats. But I have already asked the same question many times, why don’t the Democrats supply aviation, long-range missiles and tanks to Ukraine? Answer, Democrats!
Without these weapons, the US and EU spend money ineffectively and have very, very little effect. The Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot effectively attack Russian fascists without aviation, tanks and missiles with a range of at least 300 km.
Why do Democrats want Ukraine to fight against the Russian Empire using the methods of the First World War?

Good. These articles are correct, indeed.
You are beginning to realize that, even if currently insufficient, the US aid for Ukraine will dry down to nothing under a maga administration.

The writing is on the wall and even you can see it.
Better late than never!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 03, 2023, 10:10
You are beginning to realize that, even if currently insufficient, the US aid for Ukraine will dry down to nothing under a maga administration.
1. Under absolutely all Democratic US presidents, assistance to Ukraine has always been and is insufficient.
2. As I already wrote, there is a possibility that under Trump Ukraine will receive little help. But there is a possibility that the help will be even better. The problem is not that the United States should supply aircraft and long-range missiles. The problem is that Biden prohibits other countries from supplying aircraft and long-range missiles to Ukraine.
Biden's policy is criminal towards Ukraine.
You didn't answer my question, but you immediately drew conclusions.
Biden's policies will lead to Ukraine being slowly killed and occupied. How do you like this ending? Optimistic?

Russian terrorists are armed with many aircraft, many tanks and many long-range missiles. How can you fight against the Russians using the methods of the First World War? Yes, Russians are orcs and zombies, and brave Ukrainians were able to eliminate many Russians. But, without modern weapons, there is practically no chance of winning the war and eliminating the Russian army and the Russian empire. Without weapons, Ukrainians are dying, and they will end.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 03, 2023, 10:12
Well, in this topic I post the information I see and give comments.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 03, 2023, 10:22
But there is a possibility that the help will be even better.

Typical case of wishful thinking.

You see all the actions taken by the maga republicans, you consider my assessment of the present situation correct, but you still believe that somehow they will stop what they've started and change course?
That "possibility" is equal to exactly zero %.

If anything, Ukraine is still standing a chance and was not obliterated yet, exactly because of the many, many billions ($76.8 billion in total assistance, including $46.6 billion in military aid) granted by the current administration.

trump and his maga republicans will stop everything, and ask Ukraine to settle for whatever territorial losses you'll still have at that moment, as he declared on several occasions, and as we see happening under our eyes, today, in congress, where a majority of Republicans voted to stop all aid for Ukraine.

There is zero doubt about this.

(https://media.tenor.com/-0EDBW2QupgAAAAC/bill-clinton-zero.gif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 04, 2023, 03:04
You see all the actions taken by the maga republicans, ....
That "possibility" is equal to exactly zero %.

If anything, Ukraine is still standing a chance and was not obliterated yet, exactly because of the many, many billions ($76.8 billion in total assistance, including $46.6 billion in military aid) granted by the current administration.

We are back to where we started again.
1. maga republicans are not the majority of republicans, or even half.
2. The reference to the fact that the Republicans voted against a few days ago does not make them maga. If I were them, I would also vote against it, because Biden is a coward and does not give Ukraine the necessary weapons.
3. Even if we talk about maga republicans, then even for them it is not 100% that they will be against Ukraine when they come to power. It is possible that maga republicans are not cowards, unlike the democrats, and will not prohibit other countries from transferring aircraft and missiles to Ukraine.
4. Democrat Bill, with whom you posted a picture, took all nuclear weapons from Ukraine, then signed the Budapest Memorandum, after which the Democrats do not comply with this Memorandum. Thus, the Democrats disgraced the United States in the eyes of the whole world. The Democrats' policy says that the United States does not fulfill its obligations and US guarantees are worth 0. Zero!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 04, 2023, 03:11
Now let's be cynical. I see news that the EU is increasing aid to Ukraine to 50 billion. Also, frankly speaking, the Russians do not directly threaten the United States, the Russians threaten the EU countries. Therefore, it is not the United States that should help Ukraine, but all EU countries that should give money, weapons and produce a lot of weapons. Unless, of course, the EU wants Russian tanks to drive around Berlin, Paris, etc. This is to put it bluntly and cynically. For some reason, the EU authorities understand little of all this and do little, and here on the forum many people tell me that the occupation of Ukraine does not concern their countries. No problem, stop helping, don’t give money or weapons to Ukraine at all, and let’s see where Russian tanks will be in a few years.
Of course, the United States understands that after the occupation of Ukraine, the Chinese dragon will begin a further offensive. The goals are clear - Taiwan, the Middle East, the EU. But why does the US do more than the EU? Therefore, Trump and the Republicans say that the United States should switch to China, and let the EU deal with the Russians. And this is 100% the correct position. But for this it is necessary to remove Biden and put Trump in his place.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 04, 2023, 03:54
I'll continue. In many EU countries, people blame the US (not russia) for the war in Ukraine. I understand that this is a consequence of the work of Russian propaganda, but these are the realities. Residents of EU countries have a good attitude towards russia, towards Russians, they trade with this fascist and terrorist country, they allow Russian tourists, saboteurs, and propagandists in. Anti-American sentiment is very strong in the EU. And my question is, why does the United States need NATO like this? Why should the US protect EU countries if the citizens of these countries treat Russians better than the US? If the United States leaves NATO, Russian tanks will enter all EU cities. Citizens of EU countries, is this what you want? Say it straight, and Trump will soon very quickly withdraw the United States from NATO.
Therefore, my recommendations.
1. All Russians should be deported from EU countries. Do not allow any Russian tourists.
2. There should be no trade (even through other countries) between the EU and russia.
3. The EU economy must go into martial law and produce a lot of weapons. Sending these weapons to Ukraine.
But I know that this will not happen, so get ready for the arrival of Trump and his, in my opinion, correct actions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 04, 2023, 04:00
As for Ukraine. Ukraine was 350 years under the occupation of Russian orcs. Ukraine gained independence only thanks to the Republican President of the United States. It was under Bush that the USSR collapsed.
Fuck Democrats! Fuck Biden! Only a Republican should be the President of the United States!

I may try to change my mind if Biden starts supplying Ukraine with a lot of aircraft, tanks and missiles with a range of 300 to 500 km. Only in this case can I think about supporting the Democrats.

Well, as I wrote earlier, the Russian empire continues to exist thanks to the help of China. Republicans see China as the No. 1 threat to the United States and the entire civilized world. I agree with this position.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 04, 2023, 07:44
Biden! Stop selling Ukrainian blood. The US Army is waiting for your approval.

Army Ready to Deliver Long-Range Missiles for Ukraine Once Biden Approves

Long-range missiles carry from 300 to 950 cluster munitions
Pentagon has been preparing, Army Acquisition chief Bush says

The Army is poised to send Ukraine some of its long-range ATACMS missiles armed with cluster munitions once President Joe Biden approves the transfer, according to the service’s top weapons buyer.

The service “has been postured for this eventuality for a while,” Army Assistant Secretary for Acquisition Doug Bush said in an interview. “We’re ready to go fast.”

US lawmakers have been calling for months for Biden to send ATACMS, or the Army Tactical Missile System, to Ukraine, and people familiar with the matter said last month that the president finally relented, telling Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskiy during his visit to Washington last month that he was willing to do so.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-03/army-set-to-go-fast-once-biden-approves-atacms-for-ukraine (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-03/army-set-to-go-fast-once-biden-approves-atacms-for-ukraine)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 04, 2023, 13:59
China was cool, great products and reasonable prices.

Now it became an role model for western countries seeking to implement Orwellian society on level max.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 04, 2023, 20:14
Ukraine support in the US, based on political affiliations.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 05, 2023, 02:24
Ukraine support in the US, based on political affiliations.
1.
https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg593384/#msg593384 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg593384/#msg593384)

2. What difference does it make how many Democrats support Ukraine if Biden does not provide weapons? Nominate another Democratic candidate.

3. Well, add up the votes of Democrats and Republicans (who are all for Ukraine) and you will get a pro-Ukrainian Congress.

Conclusion. If Biden is a coward or works for the Russians or or trades Ukrainian blood on the geopolitical market, then he should not be President of the United States. Everything is very simple.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 05, 2023, 09:00
48 people, including child, killed as result of Russian strike on Groza village in Kharkiv region. 10/05/2023

Russian occupation forces attacked the Kupiansk district of the Kharkiv region. The shelling killed at least 48 people.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy:
"It is indicative of a brutal Russian crime - a missile strike on an ordinary grocery store, an absolutely deliberate terrorist attack. Kupiansk district in the Kharkiv region. As of now, more than 47 people have been killed. My condolences to all those who have lost their loved ones! Help is being provided to the wounded...

Russian terror must be stopped. Anyone who helps Russia circumvent sanctions is a criminal. Everyone who still supports Russia is supporting evil. Russia needs this and similar terrorist attacks for one thing only: to make its genocidal aggression the new normal for the whole world. And I thank every leader, every nation that supports us in defending life!

Now we are talking with European leaders, among other things, about strengthening our air defence, strengthening our military, and giving our country protection from terror. And we will respond to the terrorists. Absolutely fairly. And powerfully," he stressed.

https://censor.net/en/news/3447667/48_people_including_child_killed_as_result_of_russian_strike_on_groza_village_in_kharkiv_region_photos (https://censor.net/en/news/3447667/48_people_including_child_killed_as_result_of_russian_strike_on_groza_village_in_kharkiv_region_photos)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o0DcNVdXxwc?feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o0DcNVdXxwc?feature=share)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ogBEp-ibJ-c?feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ogBEp-ibJ-c?feature=share)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 06, 2023, 12:23
HROZA, Ukraine — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky described a devastating Russian missile strike on the Ukrainian village of Hroza as proof of Russia’s “absolute evil.” He said Russian forces “couldn’t have been unaware of where they were striking.” The attack Thursday killed at least 52 people and was one of the war’s deadliest missile strikes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/06/russia-ukraine-war-news-hroza/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/06/russia-ukraine-war-news-hroza/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 07, 2023, 08:09
Hamas terrorists attacked Israel. If anyone doesn’t know, the Russians are friends with Hamas and supply Hamas with weapons. Russia is a terrorist country, and Russians are terrorists, just like Hamas. I am sure that russia, Iran and China are behind the attack.

For reference: russia does not classify Hamas as a terrorist organization; it considers it a legitimate partner for negotiations; Hamas leaders have repeatedly visited Moscow at the invitation of president putin.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzZh20rMXaPlRjUx19o1NFxowaCw6WqnQypYunxvNUO0ZZmC8nh8eCdQxVnn0SUEPG3E4&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 07, 2023, 10:06
"Very cruel footage is being posted from Israel. Terrorists have captured several settlements and are killing everyone. They simply slaughter the entire population. I won’t put all this here, but it looks terrible, take my word for it.

Meanwhile, joy and complete delight reign in the Russian Z-channels. Russian chauvinists are happy. Military correspondent Dmitry Steshin writes that he does not feel a drop of pity or sympathy for the executed women and children. TV presenter Sergei Mardan writes that for Russia “there is a benefit” in the ongoing massacre, which “is impossible not to rejoice at.”"
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 07, 2023, 10:08
I see that Hamas terrorists are killing women and children in their houses and apartments.
Israel's policy of friendship with the Russians led to this result.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 07, 2023, 10:11
"Iran has officially announced its full support for Hamas.
The representative of Islamic Jihad in Iran, Nasser Abu Sharif, said that “this is only the first stage of the planned operation against Israel.”
Just a year ago he said that "The next confrontation with the Israeli occupation will be a game changer, as it will wipe out the Tel Aviv regime from the face of the earth.""
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 07, 2023, 10:15
Today is the birthday of the Russian fascist, terrorist and Naz.ist putin. I think the Hamas attack is a gift to the main terrorist putin from all world terrorism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 07, 2023, 10:31
Democrats, well, you can see for yourself what is happening in the world when power in the United States passed into the hands of the Democrats and the coward Biden became president. Terrorists around the world and terrorist countries such as russia, Iran and China are not afraid of NATO or the USA. The sooner the coward Biden is removed from power, the faster the Republicans will restore order to the world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 07, 2023, 11:33
Ukraine’s counteroffensive against russia in maps — latest updates

https://www.ft.com/content/4351d5b0-0888-4b47-9368-6bc4dfbccbf5 (https://www.ft.com/content/4351d5b0-0888-4b47-9368-6bc4dfbccbf5)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 08, 2023, 03:49
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-says-us-taxpayers-funded-hamas-attacks-israel-1832873 (https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-says-us-taxpayers-funded-hamas-attacks-israel-1832873)

Donald Trump Says US Taxpayers Funded Hamas Attacks on Israel

Former President Donald Trump released a statement on Saturday blaming Hamas' attack on Israel on United States taxpayer dollars.

Hamas carried out an unprecedented, multi-front attack on Israel at daybreak on Saturday. The Associated Press said that Hamas fired thousands of rockets, while dozens of Hamas fighters infiltrated the heavily fortified border in several locations by air, land and sea. The attack has left hundreds of people from both sides dead, according to the AP, while drawing international rebuke. The attack marks one of the most critical escalations of the conflict in recent years.

The former president blamed the attack on "American taxpayer dollars" in a statement Saturday morning on Truth Social, his social media platform. He wrote, "These Hamas attacks are a disgrace and Israel has every right to defend itself with overwhelming force. Sadly, American taxpayer dollars helped fund these attacks, which many reports are saying came from the Biden Administration. We brought so much peace to the Middle East through the Abraham Accords, only to see Biden whittle it away at a far more rapid pace than anyone thought possible. Here we go again."

The Biden administration in 2021 reinstated assistance to the Palestinians, at the time providing them $235 million. Critics, however, warned that resuming the aid could bolster Hamas' operations, a sentiment echoed by Trump. President Joe Biden has also faced backlash over a deal with Iran, which saw the release of U.S. hostages in exchange for the transfer of $6 billion in frozen Iranian funds from South Korea to Qatar.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 08, 2023, 03:50
“The attack on Israel happened because we are perceived as weak and ineffective with a weak leader,” Trump said at a rally of supporters in Iowa.
The politician emphasized that if elected president, he would support Israel and refuse assistance to Palestine.

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 08, 2023, 03:55
Democrats, I already very much doubt that your Biden will win the election in 2024. I wouldn't vote for him.
Yes, I see that he wants to give 100 billion dollars to Ukraine. But what kind of money is this and why has Ukraine not received the necessary weapons for the second year already. Maybe the Democrats are stealing this money under the guise of helping Ukraine?
Biden, Ukraine doesn’t need $100 billion! Ukraine needs tanks, aircraft and missiles!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 08, 2023, 08:10
https://www.facebook.com/100012935678189/posts/pfbid023L79z5Ye5axDxfWNwx2ZxHPPmeRbxYyM5qxHf66RbWUTNx6nUUaeLGNaF1bmhcHKl/ (https://www.facebook.com/100012935678189/posts/pfbid023L79z5Ye5axDxfWNwx2ZxHPPmeRbxYyM5qxHf66RbWUTNx6nUUaeLGNaF1bmhcHKl/)

russia and Russians  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 08, 2023, 12:56
Beautiful video of the destruction of the Russian T-90M "Breakthrough" tank.
 ;D ;D ;D  8) 8) 8)

https://twitter.com/i/status/1710995709976035536 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1710995709976035536)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 08, 2023, 18:52

“The attack on Israel happened because we are perceived as weak and ineffective with a weak leader,” Trump said at a rally of supporters in Iowa.
The politician emphasized that if elected president, he would support Israel and refuse assistance to Palestine.

+100

Nah... The main responsible is Netanyahu and his extreme right government, represented by Ben-Gvir, the minister of national security (aka minister of chaos), the leader of the Otzma Yehudit, or Jewish Power hyper-nationalist far-right party, idelogicaly similar to make america great again hyper-nationalist republicans.

Similar to our maga republicans, they were busy fighting cultural wars, imaginary woke "threats" and whatnot, and worse, the democratic justice system, instead of paying attention to the real threats Israel was facing.
How could the minister of national security fail to identify the build-up, under his nose, of many thousands of rockets arsenal is beyond comprehension.

Paralells can be drawn to 9/11. But GWB may have the excuse that those attacks were unique and unprecedented.

Netanyahu has no such excuses and will go down in history as one of the most incompetent prime-ministers (drawing another parallel to his idelogical brother, trump, one of most incompetent american presidents)

Having said that, hamas' attack on civilians is an attrocity, no different than the russian attacks on Ukraine's civilians.
hamas killed hundreds of civilians attending a festival for peace, russia killed a sixth of the Hroza village inhabitants, attending the wake of a fallen soldier (horrific images below)

Both hamas and the russian government are terrorist organizations.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 01:53
Both hamas and the russian government are terrorist organizations.
+100
I will add that 80-90% of the Russian population are terrorists, and russia is a terrorist country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 02:15
Nah... The main responsible is Netanyahu and his extreme right government,
This may not be entirely true. Yes, Netanyahu is friends with putin and does not impose sanctions against Russians. But Netanyahu has been in politics for many years, and only now he has such problems.
According to military experts, Hamas would not be able to carry out such an attack on its own. The terrorists included a wing of professional military men, most likely from Iran. These soldiers were armed with drones and other modern weapons. These military men knew what needed to be done and did it systematically. These soldiers are not visible in the photo because they did not take selfies. Only Hamas savages took selfies. Israel did not expect an attack from Iran, which is why it all happened this way. But yes, Israeli intelligence made mistakes and most likely this is because this intelligence came under the influence of russia, the KGB.
Blame for the war in Ukraine and Israel also lies with Biden and the Democrats. Terrorist countries like russia, Iran, China see that mass murders go unpunished, so an attack on Israel is the opening of another front in the third world war, which has been going on for 10 years. Russian orcs are not afraid to kill women and children in Ukraine because Biden and the EU are afraid to impose tough sanctions, because Biden is afraid to give Ukraine weapons. This is a weakness that will lead to a hot third world war, just as Trump says. Therefore, only a strong US president can defeat terrorism, and this is definitely not Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 03:50
I see that the Russians, Iran and China have decided to start a war in the Middle East. This is the result of Biden's policies. Now among the Hamas terrorists there are Russian terrorists from the Wagner company.

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/387339399_277263115215213_1124252114747859201_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p160x160&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aee45a&_nc_ohc=5gWbV5kEVe0AX9YkRiv&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ht=scontent.xx&oh=03_AdQbxH79JQsuXCI92Vm69ocTdR4QMa-YDemA_XCnl3y-Gw&oe=654B1790)

These portraits were hung by Hamas terrorists, we see putin is the first and most important terrorist there.

There are forecasts that terrorists will carry out terrorist attacks in the EU and the USA.
For those who believe that Ukraine’s problems are only Ukraine’s problems, I wish them to continue to be in illusions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 04:06
Hezbollah opened a second front against Israel. The Taliban offers to let them through to the borders of Israel and promises to capture Jerusalem.

Biden! Milksop! Give Ukraine the weapons it needs!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 05:32
"The Russians are conducting a campaign to discredit Ukraine in the Middle East, - Ministry of Defense of Ukraine.

The Russian army has already handed over to Hamas terrorists captured during the hostilities in Ukraine, trophy weapons manufactured in the USA and the EU.

Next up will be the fake accusations of the Ukrainian military about allegedly selling Western weapons to terrorists on a regular basis.

Those fakes should form the basis of a number of "revealing publications" and "investigations" in the Western mass media.

For persuasiveness, the Russians want to use the comments of the traitor from the Ukrainian Border Service, senior lieutenant Ruslan Syrovoi, who recently fled to Moscow.

Another provocation is aimed at discrediting the Armed Forces and the complete cessation of military aid to Ukraine from partners."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 09, 2023, 07:13
Nah... The main responsible is Netanyahu and his extreme right government,
Yes, Netanyahu is friends with putin and does not impose sanctions against Russians.

Thanks. The parallel I highlighted above goes on: someone else is friends with putin:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 08:13
Nah... The main responsible is Netanyahu and his extreme right government,
Yes, Netanyahu is friends with putin and does not impose sanctions against Russians.

Thanks. The parallel I highlighted above goes on: someone else is friends with putin:

(https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/img.hromadske.ua/posts/220543/ap21167417852813jpg/large.jpg)

As for Trump passing on secrets, this is most likely a lie from the Democrats. This article describes that situation. As far as I understand, Trump did not reveal anything secret.
But, I won’t argue too much, Trump is not always adequate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw&tid=sm_tw)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 10:17
Today we can say for sure:
A global terrorist alliance has already been formed in the world. It includes both individual terrorist groups and radical movements of different directions and ideologies, as well as specific states acting as shadow sponsors and customers.

And if you think that Hamas planned its attack on Israel in a cottage industry without professional intelligence provided by third parties, you are mistaken.

The task of this group is to play the game of schism, hybrid aggression, and hate campaigns. Exploiting the vulnerabilities of the global system to paralyze it through DDOS attacks on collective bodies. Undermining the economic system.

This war has many invisible fronts, but the global one is in Ukraine today. It is here that evil ultimately broke through the cracks of the earth's plates in the form of the Russian invasion. And it is the outcome of the war here today that will determine what tomorrow will be like for everyone.

Hence, less doubts and indecision.

More decisions and concrete actions.

https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1711373102343454914 (https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1711373102343454914)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 10:19
The overall failure of the global security system is obvious. #Russia has started a chain reaction of "collapse of traditional rules, agreements", the essence of which is: provoke, attack, openly kill civilians, behave as aggressively as possible, because this model of "public behavior" will cause stupor among political elites, increase their unwillingness to make decisions, aggravate their irrational fear, partially freeze the synchronous collective tough response. That is why we see today how the unwillingness to finally make a consolidated decision on the importance of Russia's strategic defeat drags the world into an era of total instability, a sharp increase in the appetites of the global terrorist alliance, the rejection of international law. There comes a time of mandatory tough decisions....

https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1711300674950946971 (https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1711300674950946971)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 10:20
There is no doubt that the conflict between #Israel and #Palestine, which flared up with renewed vigor after the #Hamas terrorist attacks, has a millennia-long history.

In this regard, the Middle East has often been compared to a powder keg and the eastern Balkans.

However, it must be realized that the moment the match was struck was not chosen at random. The action was well thought out.

And it is not only Iran's ears that stick out behind the actions of Hamas today.

The Hamas attack on Israel is a continuation of the attack on the #West and the global security system.

And it is an attack at a time of discussions about aid to #Ukraine and an active political process in the United States.

The pressure on us and allies is increasing. But we must weather this storm and remain steadfast and united.

And if someone laughs at the fact that an attack on Israel leads to calls to get back to supplying arms to Ukraine.

Then you still don't get it.

This is one war. Everything on the chessboard is connected.

And if you don't help us win today.
You won't be laughing tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1711091389830713719 (https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1711091389830713719)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 10:21
Consequences. All that Russia is doing in Ukraine is destroying global security, global rules, global agreements. As a consequence, the world is plunging into chaos, and terrorist communities are beginning to behave more defiantly, aggressively, and even declare war against entire countries....
There is only one solution to the problem (if, of course, we want to return to predictability and stability): a dramatic acceleration of Russia's defeat. As a key sponsor of global terrorism and as the author of the deliberate collapse of international law...

https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1710581317832749430
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 10:23
The Ukrainian people are well aware of what insidious terror is. Today, more than anyone else, we wish the people of Israel courage and fortitude to overcome the ordeal of these days, and we wish the Israel Defense Forces strength and complete victory.

The nefarious terrorist attack today is an attack not only on Israel, but on the global order. The agenda is the same: the impunity of the murderers, which sometimes emerges from the position: "let's negotiate with the terrorists". The fear of conservative elites of the need to really punish the outlaws severely.

Russia in Ukraine has been showing for more than 19 months that you can rape, kill civilians, kidnap them, abuse children, organize mass mutilation of the dead, and turn the temporarily occupied territories into one big torture chamber - and there are always those who say that defensive weapons can lead to escalation, that terrorists should be listened to, that you don't have to defend your homes.

Russia has opened the door to an unmitigated hell and shown everyone else that impunity is now limitless.

In Israel we see exactly the same pattern, the same model of behavior in a foreign territory and the same set of tools used by Hamas terrorists. Ask the question: who is behind Hamas and who is supporting this attack? The answer is obvious.

It's time for the right decisions. At all levels.

https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1710682322595459255 (https://twitter.com/Podolyak_M/status/1710682322595459255)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 09, 2023, 11:50
Yeah, yeah, of course.... a plot by the democrats, right!  ::)
He is obviously a putin admirer. He will serve Ukraine to him on a silver platter, then brag that he made "peace"!

Wait for it.

https://youtu.be/RR8JW2Sjhp4

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 09, 2023, 12:58
Yeah, yeah, of course.... a plot by the democrats, right!  ::)
He is obviously a putin admirer. He will serve Ukraine to him on a silver platter, then brag that he made "peace"!

Wait for it.

https://youtu.be/RR8JW2Sjhp4

Zero, thank you for your factual and substantiated informations.
It enriches this otherwise rather monotonous thread immensely and gives at least me a good insight into US politics.

So your contributions are not entirely in vain  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 13:37
Yeah, yeah, of course.... a plot by the democrats, right!  ::)
He is obviously a putin admirer. He will serve Ukraine to him on a silver platter, then brag that he made "peace"!
Wait for it.
https://youtu.be/RR8JW2Sjhp4
:-\
Yes, the choice is difficult. The choice is between the cowardly Biden (whose effectiveness is extremely low) and the dark horse Trump.
And I already wrote that this problem arose through the fault of the Democrats and Biden personally.
The President of the United States can only be a Republican.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 09, 2023, 14:04
Until now, the terrorist country russia is a member of the United Nations. Russia at the UN speaks only lies and Russian propaganda. The whole world listens to these lies and propaganda. Russia must be expelled from the UN.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 09, 2023, 19:14
The President of the United States can only be a Republican.

Certainly you mean an old school republican. But none of those has any chance against trump, unfortunately. As I said before, I would gladly vote for Chris Christie against Biden, but this scenario would never happen in a million years.

trump is NOT a republican. He is the maga leader, an extemist hyper-nationalist and isolationist movement that hijacked the republican party.

I'm afraid you will have to choose either between the guy who will offer Ukraine on a silver platter to putin, or the guy who has already offered many, many billions of help both financially and military to Ukraine (even if insufficient for now) and will continue to do so, within the limits of his constitutional powers.

So what is your choice?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 10, 2023, 03:33
So what is your choice?
Everything will depend on Biden’s policies and the situation in Ukraine. Biden still has 1 year. In the fall of 2024, it will be possible to make some choices. There is an opinion that Biden will increase military assistance to Ukraine; he needs it to win the election. This all looks very cynical.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 10, 2023, 09:54
The actions of Hamas in Israel were synchronized with the Russian terrorist attacks on Ukraine. The Center for Strategic Communications of Ukraine explains.

▶️ It is unlikely that Hamas planned and carried out the attack on Israel independently.

▶️ The tactics of Hamas (attacks, dropping ammunition from UAVs) are very reminiscent of Russian handwriting. The Center of National Resistance reports on the participation of fighters of the Russian PMC "Wagner" in the training of terrorists.

▶️ Hamas fighters use modern Russian-made weapons (in particular, the export version of the AK-103 assault rifle).

▶️ The Hamas attack on Israel was synchronized with the mass attacks of Russian troops in the Kupyan, Lyman and Marinka directions. Russia made a bet on diverting attention from Ukraine.

▶️ Russian propaganda openly or covertly supports Hamas terrorists in the confrontation with Israel.

▶️ At the same time, according to the GUR, the Russians are planning to hand over to Hamas terrorists trophy Western weapons captured in Ukraine. The goal is obvious – to further discredit Ukraine in front of international partners.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on October 10, 2023, 15:56
I am increasingly concerned with the question of how big a part each of us plays in the global misery.

Each of us uses media channels that did not exist in the past. This - the microstock group - is one of them. One of hundreds, thousands - maybe millions.

Is this doing us any good? Who among us now knows what is real and what is fake? To what extent are we contributing more and more to the division in the world with our information delivered through all these media channels? I can't answer that question myself.

But my worries about world peace grow daily. And my thoughts revolve around my own share in the overall problem.

Are we human beings no longer able to live together in peace? Are we all letting ourselves be infiltrated more and more by the daily information on all channels? I fear that this is exactly the problem. And that we should all - as quickly as possible - learn to deal with it sensibly.

I have not yet found a recipe for myself in this regard. But it's becoming increasingly clear to me that I urgently need to start looking!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 10, 2023, 16:15
Wilm, you are so right.

Times an example and I do not know of course what is right.

Pictures went around the world as facts, where Israeli security forces had attacked mosques.

From the Israeli point of view, however, it is as follows: Palestinians regularly throw stones and fireworks at Israeli security forces. The attackers then like to flee into well-filled mosques, pursued by security forces, where the Hamas camera team is standing by and filming the attack.

It has become * difficult to filter out the truth.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 11, 2023, 03:08
The time of pacifism is long over. The 3rd World War is going on. Whoever does not defend himself will be killed. The axis of evil in countries such as russia, Iran, China (and other terrorist organizations subordinate to them) use terrorist methods. For example, the Russians fire artillery from residential areas of the cities they occupied. The Russians are shooting at residential areas of cities both occupied by them and those not occupied. Hamas terrorists learn from the Russians and expose the civilian population of Palestine to attack.
The solution to the problem has long been there; the terrorists must be destroyed. Evil empires such as russia, Iran and China must be cease to exist.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 11, 2023, 03:51
Netflix will premiere a Ukrainian series for the first time. This is the "First Days" project about the beginning of a full-scale invasion.
From November 1, the series “The First Days” (Those Who Stayed), about the beginning of a full-scale invasion, will appear on Netflix simultaneously in Ukraine, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary, Moldova, the Baltic and Balkan countries. In addition, in more than 12 countries, such as Iceland, Australia and France, the film will be shown by national television channels.
“The First Days” – six stories from six directors.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 11, 2023, 16:49
I intended to say that the "Servant of the people" is already on Netflix, but then I realised it was not a premiere...  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 12, 2023, 02:09
“Servant of the people” is Zelenskyy pre-war advertising and election film. It has nothing to do with reality.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on October 12, 2023, 05:52
I intended to say that the "Servant of the people" is already on Netflix, but then I realised it was not a premiere...  ;)
The GRAMMY should be next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovg7LVtxoNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovg7LVtxoNU)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 12, 2023, 09:22
https://youtu.be/J6R5trqFqkM?t=106 (https://youtu.be/J6R5trqFqkM?t=106)

Russian orcs. "The Second Army of the World". Darwin Award Nominees.  ;D ;D ;D
Russian occupiers are loading a self-propelled 122 mm multiple rocket launcher designed in the Soviet Union.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 12, 2023, 09:43
For the last two days, Russian orcs have been shooting at residential buildings in Avdiivka (Ukraine) and trying to occupy this Ukrainian city. The Ukrainian Armed Forces killed about 1,000 Russians, 35 tanks, and about a hundred infantry fighting vehicles.

Also Review from an analyst:
 8) 8) 8)
https://youtu.be/rQCF-Jy2f64 (https://youtu.be/rQCF-Jy2f64)
https://youtu.be/QZ77yIXnuzc (https://youtu.be/QZ77yIXnuzc)


Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!


The number of killed Russians is underestimated; the elimination of Russian zombies is currently ongoing; more precisely, the numbers will be published by the Ukrainian Armed Forces later.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 12, 2023, 14:33
We need to get the instrument of terror out of Russia's hands – speech by the President at the meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group in the Ramstein format.

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/treba-vibiti-iz-ruk-rosiyi-instrument-teroru-vistup-preziden-86245 (https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/treba-vibiti-iz-ruk-rosiyi-instrument-teroru-vistup-preziden-86245)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 12, 2023, 14:35
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky thanked the PACE for recognizing the 1932-1933 Holodomor as genocide against the Ukrainian people.

“I am grateful to Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe for recognising the 1932-1933 Holodomor as genocide against the Ukrainian people. Restoring historical justice and paying tribute to Holodomor victims sends a message that justice is inevitable for all past and present Moscow’s crimes,” Zelensky posted on X.

As reported, about 30 world countries, as well as the Catholic Church and the Ecumenical Patriarchate, officially recognized the Holodomor as the genocide against the Ukrainian people.

Today, the PACE adopted a resolution calling the Holodomor an act of genocide aimed at the destruction of the Ukrainian nation.

Every year on the fourth Saturday of November, Ukrainians all over the world commemorate the victims of the 1932-1933 Holodomor and the massive artificial famines of 1921-1923 and 1946-1947.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3773299-zelensky-thanks-pace-recognizing-holodomor-as-genocide-against-ukrainian-people.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3773299-zelensky-thanks-pace-recognizing-holodomor-as-genocide-against-ukrainian-people.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 12, 2023, 18:02
I intended to say that the "Servant of the people" is already on Netflix, but then I realised it was not a premiere...  ;)
The GRAMMY should be next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovg7LVtxoNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovg7LVtxoNU)

Yes, this clip was already mentioned many pages ago, in this thread.

Really funny, indeed!  ;D

A man of many talents, and a surprisingly charismatic leader many politicians could learn from! A Braveheart of our times!

Remember that Reagan was a B-movie actor, and now he is considered one of the best American presidents ever.  ;)

I would take actors like Zelenskyy or a Reagan any day, against an ignoramus clown like trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 12, 2023, 18:41
Clownsky literally destroyed his country and his people for foreign interests and got a middle finger in return. Even today there are way more chances Russia will join NATO than Ukraine.

There should be his photo in dictionaries under the word puppet. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 12, 2023, 21:24
Clownsky literally destroyed his country and his people for foreign interests and got a middle finger in return. Even today there are way more chances Russia will join NATO than Ukraine.

There should be his photo in dictionaries under the word puppet.

No. Far from it.

He is the Braveheart of or times, a smart charismatic leader many countries could only dream to have.

He is doing a fantastic job, leading the defense of his people against the russian imperialist/colonialist aggression.

David vs Goliath redux, in real time, in front of our eyes!

You are obviously ill informed: putin is destroying Ukraine, not its defenders.

And if anything, you are the puppet, willingly or unwillingly manipulated by putin's Sankt Petersburg troll farm propaganda.  ::)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 13, 2023, 02:13
Russian serfs don't like Zelenskyy, they like their Tsar putin, who is a murderer, war criminal, terrorist and wanted by the criminal international court for genocide. That's why I always write that Russians are orcs, zombies and Na.zis.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 13, 2023, 07:34
Clownsky literally destroyed his country and his people for foreign interests and got a middle finger in return. Even today there are way more chances Russia will join NATO than Ukraine.

There should be his photo in dictionaries under the word puppet.

No. Far from it.

He is the Braveheart of or times, a smart charismatic leader many countries could only dream to have.

He is doing a fantastic job, leading the defense of his people against the russian imperialist/colonialist aggression.

David vs Goliath redux, in real time, in front of our eyes!

You are obviously ill informed: putin is destroying Ukraine, not its defenders.

And if anything, you are the puppet, willingly or unwillingly manipulated by putin's Sankt Petersburg troll farm propaganda.  ::)

He will end up in emigration like countless puppet leaders before him, population of his country will be drastically reduced, after rebuilding they will be economical slaves of the east or of the west depending of scenario which will not be resolved anytime soon while 30k people are leaving Ukraine on daily basis.


On the other hand Russia and US are literally imperialistic twins with same principles copying each other to last details and Clownsky choose to act as a puppet in between risking the future of 44M people. At this point there are 31M people left in Ukraine and untill next summer the number will be under 25M in bast scenario.

But since you are focused just on white and black figures on the chessboard I can understand that you couldn't care less for those people and their future as long as they fight against your imperialists rivals same as Putin doesn't care about the kids he is recruiting and sending to death.

This war would never have happened if Clownsky played for his own team.

And you...well you are the troll trying to spread that propaganda from the other side and hate on pretty much empty forum topic together with another clown  ;)

As someone living in between of two psycho states I'm telling you again, there is Alaska so you can both show your muscles there without using Europe as human shield.

(https://media.tenor.com/GvHEPSHFxfcAAAAM/fighting-dogs-dogs.gif)





 



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 13, 2023, 14:59
On October 13, the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) unanimously adopted a resolution that recognizes Russian President Vladimir putin as a dictator, his power as illegitimate, and russia as a dictatorship.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 13, 2023, 15:07
WASHINGTON, Oct 12 (Reuters) - The United States must prepare for possible simultaneous wars with Russia and China by expanding its conventional forces, strengthening alliances and enhancing its nuclear weapons modernization program, a congressionally appointed bipartisan panel said on Thursday.

The report from the Strategic Posture Commission comes amid tensions with China over Taiwan and other issues and worsening frictions with Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-must-be-ready-simultaneous-wars-with-china-russia-report-says-2023-10-12/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us-must-be-ready-simultaneous-wars-with-china-russia-report-says-2023-10-12/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on October 14, 2023, 16:18
Clownsky literally destroyed his country and his people for foreign interests and got a middle finger in return. Even today there are way more chances Russia will join NATO than Ukraine.

There should be his photo in dictionaries under the word puppet.

No. Far from it.

He is the Braveheart of or times, a smart charismatic leader many countries could only dream to have.

He is doing a fantastic job, leading the defense of his people against the russian imperialist/colonialist aggression.

David vs Goliath redux, in real time, in front of our eyes!

You are obviously ill informed: putin is destroying Ukraine, not its defenders.

And if anything, you are the puppet, willingly or unwillingly manipulated by putin's Sankt Petersburg troll farm propaganda.  ::)

This war would never have happened if Clownsky played for his own team.


How do you think this war could have been avoided? What should Selensky have done to prevent it?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 14, 2023, 19:12
How do you think this war could have been avoided? What should Selensky have done to prevent it?

Before even entering in serious arguments lets start with the little things like this ?

You are German right ? So, you want to talk about your legal policies considering the matter of using n.a.z.i symbols ?
Dude there were banned even in video games until recent.

And there a guy shows up, not only financing people who wave the flags but renaming 300 street names just in Kyiv in favor of n.a.z.i collaborators and removing those of anti-fascists to please the right wingers.

But lets go further, why not incorporating those n.a.z.i. cults in official army structures and enable them to participate in legal functions of the state ?

Now again, lets imagine legalizing n.a.z.i symbols, renaming streets and incorporating a strong wing of SS worshipers in army forces of Germany. I can imagine some people would proudly get their amazon order shipped to Adolf Hitler's square 88.  ;)

Can we start from there ?

Later we can talk about what are those people able to do to minorities with not only law on their side but the power and encouragement.

   

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 15, 2023, 04:24
How do you think this war could have been avoided? What should Selensky have done to prevent it?
It's better to add Russian trolls to ignore. There is no point in entering into a discussion with lies, propaganda and evil. Russian trolls, Rashists and Naz.is only need to be eliminated, which is what the Armed Forces of Ukraine is doing.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 15, 2023, 04:27
The offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

https://youtu.be/FompoLbNB_8 (https://youtu.be/FompoLbNB_8)

The second part of the "Offensive" trilogy about the counteroffensive operation of the Third Assault Brigade in the Bakhmut direction. At this stage of the offensive operations, the unit's fighters were tasked with taking enemy positions on the western bank of the Siverskyi Donets-Donbas canal.

The film features combat operations on the 7,100 m long front, filmed on GoPros of attack aircraft and UAVs. Soldiers of the 1st and 2nd Assault Battalions and the 1st Mechanized Battalion take part in the operation. On the enemy's side - the 57th Motorized Rifle Brigade of the Russian Federation and prisoners from "Storm Z", which suffered heavy losses as a result of the offensive of the 3rd OSHBr.

"This is our landing! Our land!", - the fighters move forward and direct heavy fire towards the enemy, clearing the forest strip, trenches, dugouts and holes of the enemy. The liberation of Ukrainian land meter by meter is very difficult, as recorded by the soldiers' GoPro cameras.

The video footage shows intense shooting and close combat in the trenches, the operative evacuation of comrades, the elimination of the Russian commander at close range, the taking of prisoners and the escape from the positions of the remnants of the occupiers.

As a result of the successful offensive actions of the 3rd OShBr, 254 occupants were eliminated, 444 were wounded and 12 were captured. In addition, 51 units of vehicles and armored vehicles and weapons of the occupiers were destroyed.

Fighters of the Third Assault Brigade cleared and secured a bridgehead recaptured from the enemy on the banks of the Siverskyi Donets-Donbas canal. The capture of the bridgehead later opened the way for the release of the N.P. Andriivka, which during the counteroffensive in the Bakhmut direction carried out 3 OShBr on September 15, 2023.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 15, 2023, 09:21
Is the Bundeswehr ready for war with the Russians?
There are opinions that Merkel pursued a policy of destroying the German army. While the Russian orcs were arming themselves and attacking neighboring countries, Germany was disarming. Right?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 15, 2023, 10:23
The situation is as follows. The United States is not providing Ukraine with the necessary weapons and there is a tendency that little defense weapons will be supplied. We see this in recent events in the United States. This means that there is a possibility that Ukraine will not be able to completely eliminate the Russian army.
Already, the Russians are preparing attacks on Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. Russian propaganda will say that this is necessary to protect the Russians who live there. As I understand it, the Bundeswehr and other EU armies will have to begin military operations against the Russian occupiers. And for this, the armies of EU countries must already be ready for war.
Most likely, the next president of the United States will be Trump; I don’t know how he will react to the Russian attack on the Baltic states. Perhaps Trump will say that EU countries themselves must repel Russian attacks, and the United States will limit itself to small participation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 15, 2023, 13:15
How do you think this war could have been avoided? What should Selensky have done to prevent it?

Before even entering in serious arguments lets start with the little things like this ?

You are German right ? So, you want to talk about your legal policies considering the matter of using n.a.z.i symbols ?
Dude there were banned even in video games until recent.

And there a guy shows up, not only financing people who wave the flags but renaming 300 street names just in Kyiv in favor of n.a.z.i collaborators and removing those of anti-fascists to please the right wingers.

But lets go further, why not incorporating those n.a.z.i. cults in official army structures and enable them to participate in legal functions of the state ?

Now again, lets imagine legalizing n.a.z.i symbols, renaming streets and incorporating a strong wing of SS worshipers in army forces of Germany. I can imagine some people would proudly get their amazon order shipped to Adolf Hitler's square 88.  ;)

Can we start from there ?

Later we can talk about what are those people able to do to minorities with not only law on their side but the power and encouragement.

 

Yep, it looks like this repeat of an old kremlin's speaking point is among the recent instructions received by the Sankt Petersburg troll farm. Willingly or not, our Lizard is complying with the order.

Fyi, similar re-hashings of those stale "arguments" are suddenly abundant again on social media. Stupid example below.  ::)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 16, 2023, 14:28
Church without *. Documentary film by Mykola Knyazhytskyi
Very interesting film about the russian KGB-FSB church and how the kremlin uses religion as a hybrid weapon for the occupation of neighboring states.
https://youtu.be/iNtUcdzLfHo?si=0xPrrCKrb3rf-Ode
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 16, 2023, 15:23
erik trikowich, this film can only be watched by those who understand the Ukrainian language. The forum here is international, the main language is English. The film must have subtitles so that people can enable auto-translation. But perhaps subtitles will be added soon. It would be even better if the film originally had English subtitles. Therefore, it makes sense for you to present the essence of the film in English.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 16, 2023, 15:24
russian KGB-FSB church and kremlin uses religion as a hybrid weapon for the occupation of neighboring states.
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 16, 2023, 18:38
You know, stoker2014, I also thought about this at first. But the author of the film did not want to make subtitles, and that is his right, he is the author. If there are subtitles, no one will watch even half of the film. Everyone is already pretty tired of the Ukrainian topic, Ukraine is somewhere far away, many are nostalgic for cheap russian gas and oil.
Now many on the Internet are spreading the theme that Iran initiated the massacre in Israel. I believe this terrorist act was planned from start to finish in russia, Iran only took part in it. There is a video circulating online where Hamaz is storming an Israeli military base and behind the scenes you can hear a command in russian - “Cover, cover! (Прикрываем, прикрываем!)”. Everything was exactly like in Bucha - the execution of civilians, old people, women, children.
And on Monday, October 16, an ISIS terrorist shot two Swedish citizens in Brussels. Afterwards he recorded a video where he said that he had avenged the Muslims killed by Israel with the support of Europe. According to the Sudinfo portal, the Belgian intelligence services knew about the radical views of this subject. And the prosecutor's office said that they see no connection between the terrorist attack and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Can you imagine the degree of confusion in the Kingdom of Belgium? I assume that similar terrorist attacks will occur more and more often throughout Europe. And when this reaches a certain point, then the English-language forum itself will want to watch this film and understand who is the conductor of this World lawlessness. However, in this film, even without subtitles, everything is clear who is from XY.
After watching this film, I myself was extremely surprised - even the Bulgarians kicked out the moscow-KGB priests. And the Ukrainian “servants of the people” still protect them. A shame!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 17, 2023, 03:41
"Russian military correspondent Filatov wrote that the Russian military does not evacuate its wounded from the battlefield. Therefore, only those who can get out on their own survive.

Those who couldn’t die, abandoned by their own. Even those who could have been saved."

 ;D ::) :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 17, 2023, 03:44
erik trikowich!
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 17, 2023, 09:08
 8) 8) 8)

Ukraine Fires ATACMS Missile at Russian Forces for the First Time
U.S. missiles were secretly deployed to Ukraine in recent days

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/ukraine-fires-atacms-missile-at-russian-forces-for-the-first-time-3bebcdb1 (https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/ukraine-fires-atacms-missile-at-russian-forces-for-the-first-time-3bebcdb1)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 17, 2023, 09:55
8) 8) 8)

Ukraine Fires ATACMS Missile at Russian Forces for the First Time
U.S. missiles were secretly deployed to Ukraine in recent days

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/ukraine-fires-atacms-missile-at-russian-forces-for-the-first-time-3bebcdb1 (https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/ukraine-fires-atacms-missile-at-russian-forces-for-the-first-time-3bebcdb1)

Look at that!
Obviously some of your previous comments didn't age well.  ;)

Better listen next time: don't bet on maga to save Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 17, 2023, 12:21
Obviously some of your previous comments didn't age well.  ;)
Biden needs to constantly kick ass, then he does a little something.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 17, 2023, 12:49
Obviously some of your previous comments didn't age well.  ;)
Biden needs to constantly kick ass, then he does a little something.  ;D ;D ;D

Someone else's comments didn't age well  ;):

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 17, 2023, 17:45
https://t.me/c/1544300493/20577 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 18, 2023, 02:20
https://t.me/c/1544300493/20577 ;D
"Message in a private group or channel.
This link will only work if you are a member."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 18, 2023, 10:23
Ukraine strikes Russian Military airfield with ATACMS missiles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wnBJZb6zz4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wnBJZb6zz4)

 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 18, 2023, 14:42
German Culture Ministry against boycott of Russian culture
 :o >:(

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/c/a/cae28c4-gettyimages-156253998.avif)

Claudia Roth, German Federal Government Commissioner for Culture and the Media, has spoken out against boycotting Russian culture amid Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Details: Roth said at the Frankfurt Book Fair that she does not believe in a "cultural boycott of everything of Russian origin".

"The Russian language is not Putin's property," Roth stressed.

She added that there is an "other Russia" in the form of human rights activists, writers, dissidents, the younger generation, as well as members of the LGBT and environmental movements, who are subjected to mass persecution.

The cultural boycott "will hit exactly these critical voices against Putin," Roth said.

In her opinion, it is crucial to make these voices heard and "to be careful to support them in Russia so as not to put them in even greater danger."

https://www.tagesschau.de/newsticker/liveblog-ukraine-mittwoch-294.html#Roth (https://www.tagesschau.de/newsticker/liveblog-ukraine-mittwoch-294.html#Roth)

___________

And where did she find culture in the Russian empire? There is no culture there, which is proven by the daily crimes of the Russian orcs. The entire history of russia is a lie.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 18, 2023, 15:03
German Culture Ministry against boycott of Russian culture
 :o >:(

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/c/a/cae28c4-gettyimages-156253998.avif)
Sledgehammer in mouth her
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 19, 2023, 01:05
--
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 19, 2023, 01:06
German Culture Ministry against boycott of Russian culture
 :o >:(

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/c/a/cae28c4-gettyimages-156253998.avif)

Claudia Roth, German Federal Government Commissioner for Culture and the Media, has spoken out against boycotting Russian culture amid Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Details: Roth said at the Frankfurt Book Fair that she does not believe in a "cultural boycott of everything of Russian origin".

"The Russian language is not Putin's property," Roth stressed.

She added that there is an "other Russia" in the form of human rights activists, writers, dissidents, the younger generation, as well as members of the LGBT and environmental movements, who are subjected to mass persecution.

The cultural boycott "will hit exactly these critical voices against Putin," Roth said.

In her opinion, it is crucial to make these voices heard and "to be careful to support them in Russia so as not to put them in even greater danger."

https://www.tagesschau.de/newsticker/liveblog-ukraine-mittwoch-294.html#Roth (https://www.tagesschau.de/newsticker/liveblog-ukraine-mittwoch-294.html#Roth)

___________

And where did she find culture in the Russian empire? There is no culture there, which is proven by the daily crimes of the Russian orcs. The entire history of russia is a lie.

Normally I don't like her political views.
But this is the smartest thing Claudia Roth has said in a long time.

A cultural boycott is nonsense, is of no use to anyone and hits the wrong people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 19, 2023, 02:36
A cultural boycott is nonsense, is of no use to anyone and hits the wrong people.
Russian culture has always been a weapon whose purpose propaganda.
If you don't like Claudia Roth, don't think she's saying anything smart. She, like Merkel, supports Russian fascism.
KGB agents work under the cover of Russian cultural centers around the world.
The Russians and their dirty culture must be expelled from all civilized countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 19, 2023, 07:04
Speaking about russian culture, I'm actually going through a book of short stories by Checkov right now.
These are full of humor, poking fun at the russian society of his time. The main charachters are usually drunk, suffering from delusion of grandor, living sad, shameful little lives, surrounded by a dim chaos.

If Checkov would be alive to write similar stories about today's russians, he could very well be banned and considered an "enemy of the people".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 19, 2023, 08:46
Speaking about russian culture, I'm actually going through a book of short stories by Checkov right now.
Anton Chekhov is Ukrainian by nationality and spirit. He was born on the territory of Ukraine. He cannot be called a Russian writer.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 19, 2023, 08:50
If you look at the so-called Russian culture, then a lot was created by Ukrainians, after which the Russians appropriated the achievements of Ukrainians. The Russians themselves are wild Asians; there are very few Russians by nationality who have given something to Russian culture. An analysis of Russian literature showed that it glorifies the Russian empire, murders, and occupation. Why is such a culture needed?

As I already wrote, under the cover of Russian cultural centers, KGB agents work and carry out sabotage activities in democratic countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 19, 2023, 16:42
Speaking about russian culture, I'm actually going through a book of short stories by Checkov right now.
Anton Chekhov is Ukrainian by nationality and spirit. He was born on the territory of Ukraine. He cannot be called a Russian writer.

Nah, he was born in Rostov oblast, in russia. His father was born in Voronezh governorate, russia. His mother was born in Tambov oblast, russia.
He graduated from a Moscow university. He wrote in russian.

It's true that he had Ukrainian blood (his paternal grandmother was Ukranian), but by all standards, he is part of the russian culture.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 04:06
Speaking about russian culture, I'm actually going through a book of short stories by Checkov right now.
Anton Chekhov is Ukrainian by nationality and spirit. He was born on the territory of Ukraine. He cannot be called a Russian writer.

Nah, he was born in Rostov oblast, in russia. His father was born in Voronezh governorate, russia. His mother was born in Tambov oblast, russia.
He graduated from a Moscow university. He wrote in russian.

It's true that he had Ukrainian blood (his paternal grandmother was Ukranian), but by all standards, he is part of the russian culture.
1. On January 29, 1860, the future writer Anton Chekhov was born in the Yekaterinoslav Governorate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yekaterinoslav_Governorate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yekaterinoslav_Governorate)

https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%96%D1%8F (https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%96%D1%8F)

These are Ukrainian territories where more than 80% of Ukrainians lived. Part of the Ukrainian lands is under Russian occupation. You need to take a better interest in where the Ukrainians lived.

2. The writer's father, Pavlo Yehorovych Chekhov (1823–1898), was a Ukrainian, born in the village of Vilkhovatka, Poltava province, and lived in the village of Vovcha Balka, Kharkiv region.

3. A Chekhov's grandmother Yefrosinia Shymko, with whom he often visited, spoke Ukrainian. From the navel, the boy spoke Ukrainian, later learned Russian, which is why there are many Ukrainianisms in A. Chekhov's works.

Chekhov’s native language is Ukrainian.

In the Russian Empire, Ukrainian territories were under the control of Russian provinces.

Many Ukrainian authors wrote in Russian in those years, only because Ukraine was occupied by Russian orcs and works written in Ukrainian were not published. The Ukrainian language was banned. And now the Russians in the occupied Ukrainian territories are destroying the Ukrainian language, culture, and history. Russians are Naz.is who must be eliminated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 04:11
Now antisemitic propaganda is gaining momentum in the world. This is the result of the work of the Russians and Iran. Antisemitism is Naz.ism. The hot phase of the third world war will begin soon.

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 04:15
Zero Talent, Now Ukraine is killing a lot of Russian myths. And there is a large list of writers, artists, composers who were Ukrainians, but whose achievements the Russian Naz.is and occupiers call their own. The Russian Empire must be liquidated, and the remaining Russians must pay reparations to Ukraine for theft and occupation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 04:16
I always write that there are no good Russians, there are only orcs, thieves and murderers.
But although I’ll clarify, there may be hope of finding 1% of good Russians. I even know a few people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 04:40
https://t.me/operativnoZSU/119806 (https://t.me/operativnoZSU/119806)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 04:47
 8) 8) 8)
Zaluzhny visits soldiers defending Avdiyivka

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3776202-zaluzhny-visits-soldiers-defending-avdiyivka.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3776202-zaluzhny-visits-soldiers-defending-avdiyivka.html)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 04:48
The escalation in the Middle East was perceived by Moscow as a “window of opportunity” to weaken its enemies — Ukraine and its international partners. Therefore, Russian propaganda was actively involved in forming the necessary information background.

Kremlin propagandists work simultaneously with different audiences, producing multiple fake stories:

provoking anti-Ukrainian sentiments among Israelis — and anti-Israeli ones among Ukrainians;
accusing Ukrainians of aiding and abetting terrorists
justifying HAMAS violence by Israel’s colonial policies
traditionally using the anti-Semitic narrative
spreading theories of “Jewish conspiracy”
Moscow does not take any principled position on the Middle East conflict. It is ready to support anyone and condemn everyone, if it sees any short-term benefit.

Read about the methods of Russian propaganda at this link:

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3776011-ukrainian-weapons-for-hamas-jewish-threat-to-ukraine-russian-propaganda-exploiting-conflict-in-middle-east.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3776011-ukrainian-weapons-for-hamas-jewish-threat-to-ukraine-russian-propaganda-exploiting-conflict-in-middle-east.html)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 05:33
 8) 8) 8)

Ukraine has finally not only officially received, but successfully used ATACMS. How will these missiles change the situation on the frontlines?

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3776079-atacms-hits-hard-and-is-extremely-difficult-to-intercept.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3776079-atacms-hits-hard-and-is-extremely-difficult-to-intercept.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 20, 2023, 07:52
Speaking about russian culture, I'm actually going through a book of short stories by Checkov right now.
Anton Chekhov is Ukrainian by nationality and spirit. He was born on the territory of Ukraine. He cannot be called a Russian writer.

Nah, he was born in Rostov oblast, in russia. His father was born in Voronezh governorate, russia. His mother was born in Tambov oblast, russia.
He graduated from a Moscow university. He wrote in russian.

It's true that he had Ukrainian blood (his paternal grandmother was Ukranian), but by all standards, he is part of the russian culture.
1. On January 29, 1860, the future writer Anton Chekhov was born in the Yekaterinoslav Governorate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yekaterinoslav_Governorate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yekaterinoslav_Governorate)

https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%96%D1%8F (https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B3%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D1%96%D1%8F)

These are Ukrainian territories where more than 80% of Ukrainians lived. Part of the Ukrainian lands is under Russian occupation. You need to take a better interest in where the Ukrainians lived.

2. The writer's father, Pavlo Yehorovych Chekhov (1823–1898), was a Ukrainian, born in the village of Vilkhovatka, Poltava province, and lived in the village of Vovcha Balka, Kharkiv region.

3. A Chekhov's grandmother Yefrosinia Shymko, with whom he often visited, spoke Ukrainian. From the navel, the boy spoke Ukrainian, later learned Russian, which is why there are many Ukrainianisms in A. Chekhov's works.

Chekhov’s native language is Ukrainian.


That's part of your nationalistic propaganda. It's understandable. It happens in other countries too. There are 4 or 5 countries claiming Tesla.  ;D

The fact is that only his paternal grandmother was Ukrainian. Chekhov was 1 quarter Ukrainian and 3 quarters russian.

But it doesn't even matter. The very fact that he wrote in russian makes him part of the russian culture.
You can't cancel Checkov, you can't cancel Tolstoi, just because they are part of the russian culture.

Things are different with living artists who, after kissing putin's hand and endorsed his murderous policies, have the audacity to demand to perform on western stages.
These artists are part of putin's propaganda and they deserve to be stopped from spreading it.

But not Checkov. Not Tolstoi.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 20, 2023, 09:42
That's part of your nationalistic propaganda. It's understandable. It happens in other countries too. There are 4 or 5 countries claiming Tesla.  ;D

The fact is that only his paternal grandmother was Ukrainian. Chekhov was 1 quarter Ukrainian and 3 quarters russian.

But it doesn't even matter. The very fact that he wrote in russian makes him part of the russian culture.
You can't cancel Checkov, you can't cancel Tolstoi, just because they are part of the russian culture.

Things are different with living artists who, after kissing putin's hand and endorsed his murderous policies, have the audacity to demand to perform on western stages.
These artists are part of putin's propaganda and they deserve to be stopped from spreading it.

But not Checkov. Not Tolstoi.
1. Chekhov. 2. Tolstoy.
You need to write in English correctly.

2. "That's part of your nationalistic propaganda. It's understandable. It happens in other countries too. There are 4 or 5 countries claiming Tesla.  ;D"

You began to defend Russian occupiers and thieves.

3. "The fact is that only his paternal grandmother was Ukrainian. Chekhov was 1 quarter Ukrainian and 3 quarters russian."

I wrote to you information that I know. You are writing information that you probably came up with yourself.

4. "But it doesn't even matter. The very fact that he wrote in russian makes him part of the russian culture."

No it doesn't. You again support Russian Naz.is, orcs and occupiers.
Only a Ukrainian could write what Chekhov wrote and what you admire now. Russian writers by blood could not write this. Russians are orcs who can only worship their tsar.


5. "You can't cancel Checkov, you can't cancel Tolstoi, just because they are part of the russian culture."

I wrote that Chekhov was a Ukrainian, born on Ukrainian lands, spoke Ukrainian, but he wrote his works in Russian. Everything that Chekhov wrote belongs to the cultural heritage of Ukraine.

As for Tolstoy, here I agree, he is the Russian who glorified the army of Russian murderers and occupiers.


6. "Things are different with living artists who, after kissing putin's hand and endorsed his murderous policies, have the audacity to demand to perform on western stages.
These artists are part of putin's propaganda and they deserve to be stopped from spreading it.
"

They are Russians, it’s simple.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 20, 2023, 17:40
You see Zero Talent, from a neutral point, you are pretty much this guy, just you are somewhere on level 5-6 , and he is way above on level Conan  ;D

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 20, 2023, 19:15
Two astronauts are flying on a rocket to unknown galaxies. They have already flown almost half way. Suddenly one asks the other: “Testimony?”. That answers: “15!”. The first one asks with pretension: “What, 15?”. And the second one asks: “And what, testimony?”. They looked at each other in bewilderment, and each thought: “I’m lucky to fly into space with a dumbass person,” and the rocket continued to rush further.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 20, 2023, 20:00
You see Zero Talent, from a neutral point, you are pretty much this guy, just you are somewhere on level 5-6 , and he is way above on level Conan  ;D

If he is way above, on level "Conan" (whatever that means  :D) , then you are antithetical to him => way below, on level "negative Conan"  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 20, 2023, 20:42
That's part of your nationalistic propaganda. It's understandable. It happens in other countries too. There are 4 or 5 countries claiming Tesla.  ;D

The fact is that only his paternal grandmother was Ukrainian. Chekhov was 1 quarter Ukrainian and 3 quarters russian.

But it doesn't even matter. The very fact that he wrote in russian makes him part of the russian culture.
You can't cancel Checkov, you can't cancel Tolstoi, just because they are part of the russian culture.

Things are different with living artists who, after kissing putin's hand and endorsed his murderous policies, have the audacity to demand to perform on western stages.
These artists are part of putin's propaganda and they deserve to be stopped from spreading it.

But not Checkov. Not Tolstoi.
1. Chekhov. 2. Tolstoy.
You need to write in English correctly.

2. "That's part of your nationalistic propaganda. It's understandable. It happens in other countries too. There are 4 or 5 countries claiming Tesla.  ;D"

You began to defend Russian occupiers and thieves.

3. "The fact is that only his paternal grandmother was Ukrainian. Chekhov was 1 quarter Ukrainian and 3 quarters russian."

I wrote to you information that I know. You are writing information that you probably came up with yourself.

4. "But it doesn't even matter. The very fact that he wrote in russian makes him part of the russian culture."

No it doesn't. You again support Russian Naz.is, orcs and occupiers.
Only a Ukrainian could write what Chekhov wrote and what you admire now. Russian writers by blood could not write this. Russians are orcs who can only worship their tsar.


5. "You can't cancel Checkov, you can't cancel Tolstoi, just because they are part of the russian culture."

I wrote that Chekhov was a Ukrainian, born on Ukrainian lands, spoke Ukrainian, but he wrote his works in Russian. Everything that Chekhov wrote belongs to the cultural heritage of Ukraine.


I don't deny that he may have spoken Ukrainian, since his paternal grandmother was Ukrainian, as I already mentioned above.
It's likely that if his paternal grandmother lived in the same house, she may have taught her grandson to speak her language. Very normal in many mixed families.

But his other 3 grandparents were russians. That makes Chekhov (:P) only 1-quarter Ukrainian.
Based on that quarter, you may try to claim him as part of Ukrainian culture, but he is undeniably part of the russian culture, and he shouldn't be canceled because of that. He has nothing to do with putin.

About Taganrog, Chekhov's birthplace:
Founded in 1690, by Peter the Great, on land seized from the Ottomans (initially as a military base), Taganrog was one of russia's first planned cities.
Then it remained russian, until the collapse of the russian empire in 1917. After the soviet victory, it became part of the newly formed Ukrainian SSR.
In 1924, it was transferred back to the russian SFSR.

So that land was under Ukrainian rule for only a few years.
Chekhov was already dead for at least 13 years when his birthplace fell under Ukrainian rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taganrog

I understand that your nationalist propaganda is claiming territories beyond natural borders, dreaming about a "Greater Ukraine".
Again, it's not only a Ukrainian syndrome.
Many nationalists in other countries (see for example russia  ;)) have the habit of claiming territories belonging to other countries, under all kinds of fabricated ideological or mythical reasons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 21, 2023, 03:05
Zero Talent, you fell into the trap of Russian myths, from poor knowledge of the history of the Ukrainian people.
1. I wrote to you that Chekhov’s father was Ukrainian and was born and lived in the territory where Ukrainians have always lived.
2. Taganrog, Kuban, the Azov region are all territories where Ukrainians lived en masse. I gave you a link where it says that 80% of Ukrainians lived there. Chekhov was born and raised in a Ukrainian environment.
A lot of historical territories of Ukraine were occupied by the Russians, but this does not mean that Ukrainians did not live there later.

Regarding the Ukrainian writer Chekhov, Ukraine will prove this issue in an international court when the time comes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 21, 2023, 10:22
I'm afraid you must revise some of your information, polluted by too much nationalist propaganda.

Chekhov's grand-father, Egor was born in Olkhovatka in the russian Voronezh province, where his father (Chekhov great-grand father) was a serf.
Chekhovs are traceable in this region to the sixteenth century

Egor was also a serf when Pavel (Chekhov father) was born on the same estate, Olkhovatka in the russian Voronezh province, and not in the Ukrainian Vilkhovatka, Poltava province, as you claim.
See the map below.

He managed to buyout his freedom and the freedom of his family, including his son's Pavel and move to become a serf master on an estate north of Taganrog (see the town history in my other post, above), where our Anton was born.

Anton's maternal line was similar, and Tambov province, where the family came from, was as archetypically russian as neighbouring Voronezh.

As I said before, only his paternal grandmother (Efrosinia Emelianovna) was Ukrainian (from Kyiv), making our Chekhov only 1-quarter Ukrainian.

Recommended reading:
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/r/rayfield-chekhov.html (https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/r/rayfield-chekhov.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 21, 2023, 11:22
1. Chekhov was born in Ukraine, in Taganrog. Until the second half of the 20th century, Taganrog was within the Ukrainian ethnic territory.
2. Chekhov often thought in Ukrainian.
3. Maria Zankovetska shared: “He also persuaded me to move to the Russian stage, and I, in turn, shamed him that he, himself a Ukrainian, was persuading me to cheat. I scolded him for not writing in his native language.

Maria Zankovetska
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Zankovetska (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Zankovetska)

4. Chekhov drew many traditions, types, pictures from Ukraine! All his creations, especially "Cherry Orchard" are simply full of Ukrainian types and symbols.

5. Now about his father's place of birth. Let's look at the Voronezh region.
Olkhovatka, Olkhovatsky District, Voronezh Oblast:

Olkhovatka was founded in 1702 by Ukrainian Cossacks.
The village was part of the Ukrainian People's Republic.
Olkhovatka is located within the Ukrainian ethnic territory — Slobidska Ukraine.

https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0_(%D0%92%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B7%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C) (https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0_(%D0%92%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%B7%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C))

Ukrainian territories, Ukrainians, Ukrainian culture, language. Chekhov is Ukrainian and Ukrainian writer. Even if Chekhov had not been Ukrainian by nationality, he would still have been a Ukrainian writer, because he was born and lived in the territory where Ukrainians lived.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 21, 2023, 12:33
If a certain percentage of Ukrainians live in a area, it doesn't make that area Ukrainian. Ethnic spreads across borders are pretty common.

Look at your own map: since when was Moldova Ukrainian? It had similar percentages of ethnic Ukrainians as Voronezh oblast.
And... be careful now... similar if not more Ukrainians than Crimea! You can't have it both ways.
Ukraine People's Republic had very ambitious territorial claims:

(https://origins.osu.edu/sites/default/files/inline-images/Ukraine-growth.png)

Can't you see how blinded you are by your own hyper-nationalism including the "Greater Ukraine" narative?  ::)

Be aware that you only get a pass, because your country has been invaded by an evil colonial imperialist power led by a paranoid dictator. In normal circumstances this attitude would be very much frowned upon.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 21, 2023, 14:09
If a certain percentage of Ukrainians live in a area, it doesn't make that area Ukrainian. Ethnic spreads across borders are pretty common.
The percentage of Ukrainians living makes the territory Ukrainian. This is an axiom.
But you misunderstood me; before the war with the Russians, no one spoke about the need to reconquer Ukrainian lands. Because if you remember Kievan Rus, and Ukrainians lived on its territories, then a lot of land should return to Ukraine.
And now I am not writing about the fact that Ukraine will fight for lands that are not part of it in accordance with concluded international treaties.
Here we talked about Chekhov, about his nationality, in what cultural environment he grew up. I wrote to you that many Ukrainian territories were occupied by the Russians several centuries ago, and I wrote to you that Ukrainians continued to live in these territories.
You write to me about a great Ukraine, I don’t propose such things here.
As for Moldova, I am not aware of this issue, I do not know what% of Ukrainians lived and live there.

Ukraine People's Republic had very ambitious territorial claims:
There was a revolution in the Russian empire, this empire legally ceased to exist, it is logical that Ukraine fought a war for the territories where 80% of Ukrainians lived.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 21, 2023, 15:45
The percentage of Ukrainians living makes the territory Ukrainian. This is an axiom.

No, it doesn't. There are Ukrainians in the US (two very nice Ukrainians installed my AC this summer). The fact that Ukrainians live in the US, doesn't make the USA Ukrainian.
You are not aware of many issues. That's not a problem. The problem is that you are not ready to listen and learn.

You can't apply your logic to Voronezh oblast, claiming it was Ukrainian, because a certain Ukrainian minority lived there, and not apply it to Moldova or any other neighbor of Ukraine, where Ukrainians live.
That's exactly what putin is trying to do, by claiming that russia is wherever russians live, through his "russkiy mir" ideology.  ::)

About Checkov, there are no traces stating that his parents and his other 3 grandfathers were Ukrainians, except for his paternal grandmother.
The only reference to his Ukrainian ancestry is in relation to his paternal grandmother. That's it. That makes him 1-quarter Ukrainian.

"Chekhov's paternal grandmother Efrosinia Emelianovna, whom her grandchildren saw even less, for she rarely left the farm, was Ukrainian. All the loud laughter and singing, the fury and joy that Chekhov associated with Ukrainians, had been beaten out of her. She was as surly as her husband, with whom she lived fifty-eight years before her death in 1878"

Ukrainians may have also lived in Taganrog, nobody is denying that, but so did Greeks, Germans, etc..
The Greeks constituted a large part of the city population. It didn't make Taganrog neither Greek nor Ukrainian.

"Taganrog had imperial status and a cosmopolitan population that made it more of a colonial capital than a provincial city. Visually, it was striking: a decrepit military harbour and a thriving civil port at the foot of a promontory jutting into the shallow Sea of Azov; half a dozen avenues, lined with Greek merchants' houses, punctuated with Russian government buildings, radiating northeast from the tip of land towards the steppes. You might have thought you were in a dusty city of Thrace, until you reached the wooden shanty town of the Russian suburbs"

The city was Ukranian for a few years only, after the collapse of the russian empire, well after Chekhov died. Before that, that place was russian, Ottoman, Tartar/Mongolic, Hunic, Alanic, Greek...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 21, 2023, 16:01
Zero Talent, there is no point in discussing 3 or 4 areas at once. I wrote about the culture, about the 80% of Ukrainians living where Chekhov was born, about the history of the village where Chekhov’s father was born. And you accuse me of nationalism and compare me with putin. Territory and country are two different things. Ukrainian territory does not mean that it is part of Ukraine, and the Ukrainian population living on the territory is not necessarily citizens of Ukraine. You are now arguing in legal terms, and I am writing to you about the territories where Ukrainians have always lived.
Further, if Chekhov thought in Ukrainian, was born among Ukrainians, and used Ukraine in his works, he is a Ukrainian writer.
And I gave you a link where it is written that 80% of Ukrainians lived where Chekhov was born.

But, if any Russian who was born and lives in russia writes in Ukrainian, he will not be a Ukrainian writer. He will be a Russian writer who writes in Ukrainian.

You probably personally really want Chekhov to be a Russian author.  ;D
Don’t you want to read Ukrainian authors?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 21, 2023, 16:23
You probably personally really want Chekhov to be a Russian author.  ;D
Don’t you want to read Ukrainian authors?

No, I don't want him to be anything different than he was. He was 3 quarters russian and 1 quarter Ukrainian, and that's a fact. We can't change that no matter what you or I want.

FYI, I read books by Ukrainian authors, who wrote in russian, like Ilf & Petrov (The Twelve  Chairs + The Golden Calf) and Bulgakov (The Master and Margarita)

But also books by Chekhov, Tolstoy, and Dostoevsky, russian authors who shouldn't be canceled because of putin's madness, as said by that German minister before your nationalist diatribe began.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 22, 2023, 02:27
Zero Talent, you switched to blood, to nationality. To classify an author as Ukrainian, it does not matter who he is by blood! Even 100% Russian by blood, if he is born among Ukrainians, thinks in Ukrainian and uses Ukraine in his works, will be considered a Ukrainian author. And you are already promoting some kind of Naz.ism here. Not ashamed?

"Bulgakov (The Master and Margarita)"
This is a shame for Ukraine. It is not read in Ukraine. Only Russian orcs read it. He is a traitor of the Ukrainian literature.

"But also books by Dostoevsky, "
He has 50% Ukrainian blood. But because of this, he is not even 1% Ukrainian author.

You need to work as a lawyer for Russian thieves, Naz.is and occupiers. You will do great!
 :( :( :(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 22, 2023, 05:56
Let's summarize. Russian culture and Russian cultural centers should be banned in all civilized countries. But some of the Ukrainian authors whom the Russians stole from the Ukraine must be left behind. The list of these authors, painters and composers will be provided by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine.

I have already written about Russian cultural centers; these are cells of KGB agents.
Any Russian culture is promoted in other countries with the aim of promoting the Russian empire, crimes and justification of genocide.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 22, 2023, 08:30

"Bulgakov (The Master and Margarita)"
This is a shame for Ukraine. It is not read in Ukraine. Only Russian orcs read it. He is a traitor of the Ukrainian literature.


What? That's a great book! The whole world is reading it.

It looks like you don't only want to cancel russian authors who have nothing to do with putin, but you want to cancel Ukrainian authors too? Why? How did he offend your beliefs?
Bulgakov was understandably censored in the soviet union, why is he still censored in modern, democratic Ukraine?
Book burning much?
Unbelievable!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 22, 2023, 09:38

"Bulgakov (The Master and Margarita)"
This is a shame for Ukraine. It is not read in Ukraine. Only Russian orcs read it. He is a traitor of the Ukrainian literature.


What? That's a great book! The whole world is reading it.

It looks like you don't only want to cancel russian authors who have nothing to do with putin, but you want to cancel Ukrainian authors too? Why? How did he offend your beliefs?
Bulgakov was understandably censored in the soviet union, why is he still censored in modern, democratic Ukraine?
Book burning much?
Unbelievable!

It's not about a specific book, although it's about that too. You've probably only read one of his books. In general, all his work is pro-Russian, he supported the Russian empire, Russian soldiers and had a bad attitude towards Ukrainians and the Ukrainian language, ridiculed the Ukrainian language.
In the USSR it was censored only for political reasons. He supported the wrong Russians. You know that there was a revolution in the Russian empire, and this empire was divided into 2 types of soldiers. He supported the wrong soldiers who won. As for Ukraine, all Russian soldiers are orcs, occupiers, terrorists and murderers.
And you don’t need to blame me personally for your surprise, I wrote to you how Ukrainians treat him.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 22, 2023, 09:41
It looks like you don't only want to cancel russian authors who have nothing to do with putin

putin and all the other Russian orcs grew up on this Russian “literature”. The entire Russian empire rests on this “literature”. Therefore, all this “literature” should be banned.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 22, 2023, 09:52
Speaking about banning books, go and read "Farenheit 451" by Ray Bradbury.
Recommended!

PS. Again, you only get some understanding because your country is in exceptional circumstances, at war with an evil empire... otherwise this is fundamentaly wrong.
What you want is the equivalent of banning algebra, algorithms and Arabic numerals because of the 9/11 attacks.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 22, 2023, 13:52
war with an evil empire...
This is where you start thinking. This empire became like this because russia is an empire and because all its cultural figures worked for such an empire. Their cultural activities glorify evil. So why read such literature?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 23, 2023, 05:41
It looks like you don't only want to cancel russian authors who have nothing to do with putin

putin and all the other Russian orcs grew up on this Russian “literature”. The entire Russian empire rests on this “literature”. Therefore, all this “literature” should be banned.

Here is an idea, lets burn all those books.

O wait, someone e already had that idea of burning culture not so long ago.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 23, 2023, 17:28

Here is an idea, lets burn all those books.

O wait, someone e already had that idea of burning culture not so long ago.  ;D

That's right, there were ideas! With your former allies. They have a mustachioed schizophrenic and you have a mustachioed bloodsucker with a withered hand. They had concentration camps and so do you. Now you also have “wonderful” allies - murderers and thugs. You are going the right way, “comrades”!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 24, 2023, 05:02

That's right, there were ideas! With your former allies. They have a mustachioed schizophrenic and you have a mustachioed bloodsucker with a withered hand. They had concentration camps and so do you. Now you also have “wonderful” allies - murderers and thugs. You are going the right way, “comrades”!

Skipping therapy not recommended  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 24, 2023, 09:18
A soldier from Ireland in the Armed Forces: about the way to Ukraine, motivation.

https://youtu.be/Z8_NIRaqLWw (https://youtu.be/Z8_NIRaqLWw)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 24, 2023, 09:20
For 14 days, the Russians storm the Ukrainian city of Avdiivka. Every day in this direction the Ukrainian Armed Forces eliminate 1000 Russian orcs. Good statistics.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 24, 2023, 13:03
 >:(

Elon Musk recommends to sacrifice Ukraine's integrity to avoid World War III

Billionaire Elon Musk believes that military conflicts in the Middle East and Ukraine could escalate into World War III, so the US should improve relations with Russia and persuade Ukraine to cease fire.

Quote from Musk: "We need to figure out peace in Ukraine, and I think we need to restore normal relations with Russia."

Details: Speaking at an online discussion on Twitter on 23 October, Musk suggested that "US policy has been forcing Russia to ally with Iran and China" and that an alliance of Russia, China and Iran could defeat the West in a global conflict.

According to Musk, a fierce confrontation with China and Russia would be catastrophic for the US, as Russia with its rich raw materials and China with its phenomenal industrial potential "is a formidable combination".

Musk believes that "civilization itself may be at stake", so the priority of US policy should be "avoiding World War 3" and preventing a situation of "a regional conflict rapidly becoming a global conflict".

Musk considers Ukraine's war against Russia to be a hopeless situation.

The billionaire called on the US to "figure out" a way to peace in Ukraine and "resume normal relations with Russia".

During the Spaces discussion, Musk suggested that there is no anti-Russian insurgency in the Russian-occupied "Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine", hinting that the current lines of control could be transformed into a ceasefire or permanent border.

Musk believes a ceasefire is possible because it makes no sense to force areas that supposedly want to be part of Russia to be a part of Ukraine. He is convinced that Russian-occupied eastern Ukraine and Crimea really want to be Russian.

The billionaire does not understand why soldiers of both countries die every day. In his opinion, Russia will not leave these lands, and Ukraine will not succeed with a smaller army, so a ceasefire is the best way out for the Ukrainian people.

US Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy also joined Musk at the Spaces session organised by venture capitalist David Sacks.

Ramaswamy echoed Musk's warnings about the possibility of global conflict, telling the audience that "if we do enter World War 3, the United States as we know it will cease to exist".


https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestinians/card/elon-musk-warns-world-war-iii-could-arise-from-current-conflicts-koZxzphSaEneTMg1HCxg (https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestinians/card/elon-musk-warns-world-war-iii-could-arise-from-current-conflicts-koZxzphSaEneTMg1HCxg)

Tell this Russian KGB agent to better offer to give Alaska to the Russian orcs. After all, he is afraid of war, well, the Russians will be happy to leave Ukraine in exchange for Alaska. And then we'll see what US citizens do with this Musk.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 24, 2023, 13:46
For 14 days, the Russians storm the Ukrainian city of Avdiivka. Every day in this direction the Ukrainian Armed Forces eliminate 1000 Russian orcs. Good statistics.  ;D ;D ;D

As their national hero, commander and part-time cannibal Zhukov, said: “What’s the point of feeling sorry for them - the women will still give birth!”.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 24, 2023, 13:53
>:(

Elon Musk recommends to sacrifice Ukraine's integrity to avoid World War III

Billionaire Elon Musk believes that military conflicts in the Middle East and Ukraine could escalate into World War III, so the US should improve relations with Russia and persuade Ukraine to cease fire.

Quote from Musk: "We need to figure out peace in Ukraine, and I think we need to restore normal relations with Russia."

Details: Speaking at an online discussion on Twitter on 23 October, Musk suggested that "US policy has been forcing Russia to ally with Iran and China" and that an alliance of Russia, China and Iran could defeat the West in a global conflict.

According to Musk, a fierce confrontation with China and Russia would be catastrophic for the US, as Russia with its rich raw materials and China with its phenomenal industrial potential "is a formidable combination".

Musk believes that "civilization itself may be at stake", so the priority of US policy should be "avoiding World War 3" and preventing a situation of "a regional conflict rapidly becoming a global conflict".

Musk considers Ukraine's war against Russia to be a hopeless situation.

The billionaire called on the US to "figure out" a way to peace in Ukraine and "resume normal relations with Russia".

During the Spaces discussion, Musk suggested that there is no anti-Russian insurgency in the Russian-occupied "Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine", hinting that the current lines of control could be transformed into a ceasefire or permanent border.

Musk believes a ceasefire is possible because it makes no sense to force areas that supposedly want to be part of Russia to be a part of Ukraine. He is convinced that Russian-occupied eastern Ukraine and Crimea really want to be Russian.

The billionaire does not understand why soldiers of both countries die every day. In his opinion, Russia will not leave these lands, and Ukraine will not succeed with a smaller army, so a ceasefire is the best way out for the Ukrainian people.

US Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy also joined Musk at the Spaces session organised by venture capitalist David Sacks.

Ramaswamy echoed Musk's warnings about the possibility of global conflict, telling the audience that "if we do enter World War 3, the United States as we know it will cease to exist".


https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestinians/card/elon-musk-warns-world-war-iii-could-arise-from-current-conflicts-koZxzphSaEneTMg1HCxg (https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestinians/card/elon-musk-warns-world-war-iii-could-arise-from-current-conflicts-koZxzphSaEneTMg1HCxg)

Tell this Russian KGB agent to better offer to give Alaska to the Russian orcs. After all, he is afraid of war, well, the Russians will be happy to leave Ukraine in exchange for Alaska. And then we'll see what US citizens do with this Musk.

And what kind of weed do they smoke? Musk and Rama are with them?
And most importantly, who supplies them with this weed?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 24, 2023, 21:51
>:(

Elon Musk recommends to sacrifice Ukraine's integrity to avoid World War III

Billionaire Elon Musk believes that military conflicts in the Middle East and Ukraine could escalate into World War III, so the US should improve relations with Russia and persuade Ukraine to cease fire.

Quote from Musk: "We need to figure out peace in Ukraine, and I think we need to restore normal relations with Russia."

Details: Speaking at an online discussion on Twitter on 23 October, Musk suggested that "US policy has been forcing Russia to ally with Iran and China" and that an alliance of Russia, China and Iran could defeat the West in a global conflict.

According to Musk, a fierce confrontation with China and Russia would be catastrophic for the US, as Russia with its rich raw materials and China with its phenomenal industrial potential "is a formidable combination".

Musk believes that "civilization itself may be at stake", so the priority of US policy should be "avoiding World War 3" and preventing a situation of "a regional conflict rapidly becoming a global conflict".

Musk considers Ukraine's war against Russia to be a hopeless situation.

The billionaire called on the US to "figure out" a way to peace in Ukraine and "resume normal relations with Russia".

During the Spaces discussion, Musk suggested that there is no anti-Russian insurgency in the Russian-occupied "Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine", hinting that the current lines of control could be transformed into a ceasefire or permanent border.

Musk believes a ceasefire is possible because it makes no sense to force areas that supposedly want to be part of Russia to be a part of Ukraine. He is convinced that Russian-occupied eastern Ukraine and Crimea really want to be Russian.

The billionaire does not understand why soldiers of both countries die every day. In his opinion, Russia will not leave these lands, and Ukraine will not succeed with a smaller army, so a ceasefire is the best way out for the Ukrainian people.

US Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy also joined Musk at the Spaces session organised by venture capitalist David Sacks.

Ramaswamy echoed Musk's warnings about the possibility of global conflict, telling the audience that "if we do enter World War 3, the United States as we know it will cease to exist".


https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestinians/card/elon-musk-warns-world-war-iii-could-arise-from-current-conflicts-koZxzphSaEneTMg1HCxg (https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-news-gaza-palestinians/card/elon-musk-warns-world-war-iii-could-arise-from-current-conflicts-koZxzphSaEneTMg1HCxg)

Tell this Russian KGB agent to better offer to give Alaska to the Russian orcs. After all, he is afraid of war, well, the Russians will be happy to leave Ukraine in exchange for Alaska. And then we'll see what US citizens do with this Musk.

A good summary below:

"So, the richest guy in the world, an Indian American Trump-impersonator, and a Malaysian man child come together to discuss Ukraine... Sounds like a beginning of a bad joke. And in a way, it is. Only this is the reality of Twitter now.

Yesterday, on Twitter Spaces Elon decided to discuss “the end of Ukraine war” with his dudes - Vivek, David and Ian. Why them? Well, Ukraine is what they all have in common. For one thing, it’s one place all of them have never been to. Even more importantly, it’s one place they know nothing about. And it’s one place with whose enemy all of them occasionally disagree in theory but always agree in practice. In all fairness though, Russia is another place they know nothing about…

So, long story short, in the end the dudes found a solution to “Ukraine war”: one place they know nothing about should cede territory to another place they know nothing about. And it should be done joyfully, as a contribution to the peace in the world. That’s it. That’s their solution.

On a serious note though, yesterday Elon showed once again what he is bringing to the table with the purchase of Twitter. He wants to be one of the judges of the world. Also, his brilliant “alternative to legacy media” is to give the world’s biggest platform, the highest podium to people with zero responsibility, zero knowledge on the subject, and very, very unclear motives. As long as they share his views of course.

Elon is an oligarch. Only instead of a TV channel he buys Twitter. And instead of fulfilling his financial interests, he tries to fulfill his desire to play god. He sincerely thinks he’s saving the world from a nuclear genocide, but in reality he just helps the genocidal maniac in the Kremlin to have his way - with Ukraine, with America, with the world."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 25, 2023, 03:41
We also need to check the version to see if he was recruited by the KGB.
The KGB has many agents of influence in democratic countries. They are all recruited in different ways.
If it turns out that Elon Musk is a KGB agent, he could spend the rest of his days in prison.
I don’t remember that before the war in Ukraine, Elon Musk was involved in geopolitics. This is not his area of interest. Perhaps the KGB activated him as an agent. If this is true, then the US space industry is at risk, Musk will transfer technology to the Russians.

People of Musk's stature don't just say anything. There is an order for this; their words are very expensive. It’s me who can write whatever I want here on the forum, but Musk can't do the same.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 25, 2023, 04:22
The US Senate called China, russia and Iran the new axis of evil.

McConnell calls China, russia, Iran new 'axis of evil' that US must deal with: 'This is an emergency'.

According to Fox News, the 81-year-old US senator believes that the world is in greater danger than ever before in his lifetime.

"This is an emergency situation where we must step up and deal with this new axis of evil - China, Russia, Iran - because this is an immediate threat to the United States," the Senate Republican leader said.

The senator also called Iran the main sponsor of terrorism because it supplies UAVs to russia. The politician accused China of supporting the aggressors and recalled that Chinese President Xi Jinping declared “endless friendship with the Russians.”

The Asian allies of the United States, according to McConnell, are Japan, South Korea and Taiwan. They are all interested in what is happening in Ukraine, because they know that the leader of the PRC is watching it. He emphasized that “if the Russians are not defeated in Ukraine, then the next NATO country will be.”

McConnell added that providing military assistance to the Ukrainians helps Washington restore its industrial base, because thanks to this, jobs are created in 38 states.

“Therefore, the opinion that our assistance to Ukraine is not useful for us does not correspond to reality,” the senator concluded.


More details here
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-calls-china-russia-iran-new-axis-evil-us-must-deal-emergency (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-calls-china-russia-iran-new-axis-evil-us-must-deal-emergency)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 25, 2023, 04:38
There are some good Russians!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-24/ukraine-s-army-enlists-russians-eager-to-fight-and-defeat-putin?fbclid=IwAR3xpyVb2XAgyMZG8nc_vRphCC9XdkopmO93-8KaXtHqgnpZecufHXOIeqg (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-24/ukraine-s-army-enlists-russians-eager-to-fight-and-defeat-putin?fbclid=IwAR3xpyVb2XAgyMZG8nc_vRphCC9XdkopmO93-8KaXtHqgnpZecufHXOIeqg)

The Ukrainian Armed Forces formed the “Siberia” battalion from Russians and representatives of Russian national minorities.

Ukraine forms battalion of Russian citizens opposed to Kremlin
Volunteers explain why they left Russia to join Ukraine’s army

Ukraine’s military has formed a battalion of soldiers made up entirely of Russian citizens who want to fight against President Vladimir Putin’s invasion.

The Sibir (Siberia) battalion has brought together dozens of Russians and people from ethnic minorities in Russia who traveled via third countries because they wanted to join the Ukrainian army, according to officials at their training camp. Unlike volunteer groups such as the Freedom of Russia legion that have declared support for Ukraine, the soldiers are part of the regular Ukrainian army and expect to be sent into battle very soon.

They include people from groups such as Yakuts and Buryats in Russia’s vast eastern Siberian region who said they wanted independence from Russia and viewed Ukraine’s victory in the war as a step toward that goal.

“If people want to fight for Ukraine, for our borders, for the collapse of this Russian soviet regime, why not?” Batya, their Ukrainian instructor and commander, told Bloomberg News during a visit Tuesday to the group’s training ground. “It is their choice and it shows that not all Russians support Putin.”

Ukraine advertised the battalion’s existence as the war enters its 21st month with fierce fighting taking place in the country’s east and south. Russian forces attacking near the town of Avdiivka in the Donetsk region are incurring “catastrophic losses,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said Friday. Putin told reporters last week that Ukraine’s monthslong counteroffensive to reclaim occupied territory had “completely failed,” and that Russia had switched to “active defense.”

Ukrainian officials said they expect to attract more Russian citizens, particularly from the country’s minorities, to join the war against Putin. Those in the Sibir battalion underwent thorough security checks to verify they were supporters of Ukraine then signed a military contract, adopting army call signs to protect their identities.

“We need to destroy the Kremlin regime,” said a 29-year-old Yakut with the call sign Vargan, who admitted he had no military experience before traveling thousands of miles from the Siberian city of Irkutsk to try to join the Ukrainian army. Originally from Russia’s diamond-rich Yakutia region, he added: “I want Yakutia to be a free democratic country, it is a very rich country but people are so poor. Only state officials who serve Putin are flourishing.”

A Russian from the Moscow region, call sign Gandhi, said he left Russia shortly after the February 2022 invasion and traveled to Ukraine via Poland “to fight against the crimes committed by my country.” He chose his call sign linked to the Indian pacifist leader because he opposes violence but “I have the right to defend the lives of other people,” he said.

“I felt that as a Russian I am responsible for this,” the 41-year-old said, adding that his parents and some other family members in Russia were supporters of Putin. “I realize I can be killed in the first fight, but for me it is much more scary to feel that I am an accomplice of the evil that comes from my country.”

Russia is an empire that “must collapse,” so that people in different parts of the world’s largest country can “determine themselves how to live,” said Martin, a 29-year-old engineer from Moscow who worked in IT before coming to Ukraine in the summer. His family have no idea where he is “for their own safety,” he said.

All the members of the 60-strong battalion are volunteers and none are recruited from among Russian prisoners of war, said a Ukrainian army official. Ukraine’s military plans to speed up background checks that can take as long as a year in order to encourage more Russians to join their ranks, he said.

“It’s comfortable to work with them,” said Batya, the 36-year-old instructor. “They are responsible and they’re training well.”
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 25, 2023, 12:47
Just something odd in the news today.

"Black Lives Matter Grassroots stands in solidarity with our Palestinian family who are currently resisting 75 years of settler colonialism and apartheid."
https://twitter.com/blmgrassroots/status/1714005282807071196

The founder of Black Lives Matter Los Angeles has pledged allegiance to Palestine stating that the real enemy is the "Israeli apartheid regime."

Chicago: "Yesterday we sent out msgs that we aren’t proud of," BLM Chicago said in a post on X. "We stand with Palestine & the people who will do what they must to live free. Our hearts are with, the grieving mothers, those rescuing babies from rubble, who are in danger of being wiped out completely."

(https://mr.cdn.ignitecdn.com/client_assets/thepostmillennial_com/media/picture/6526/c1cf/1952/e60e/af44/f226/original_screen_shot_2023-10-11_at_11.14.45_am.png?1697038798)

Somewhat troubling that the Marxists are still gaining support in their efforts to divide not only the country where they live, but create angry attacks on everyone "white".

We should be working to end racism and ethnic hate, but instead, the politics of some special interest groups like BLM are creating further division.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 25, 2023, 13:25
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Russian KGB is behind Black Lives Matter. Now there is a coordinated attack on democratic institutions of power in all democratic countries.
Behind all the attacks is an axis of evil consisting of russia, China and Iran.

The third world war, which has been going on for 10 years, is beginning to gain momentum.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on October 25, 2023, 15:17
Just something odd in the news today.

"Black Lives Matter Grassroots stands in solidarity with our Palestinian family who are currently resisting 75 years of settler colonialism and apartheid."
https://twitter.com/blmgrassroots/status/1714005282807071196

The founder of Black Lives Matter Los Angeles has pledged allegiance to Palestine stating that the real enemy is the "Israeli apartheid regime."

Chicago: "Yesterday we sent out msgs that we aren’t proud of," BLM Chicago said in a post on X. "We stand with Palestine & the people who will do what they must to live free. Our hearts are with, the grieving mothers, those rescuing babies from rubble, who are in danger of being wiped out completely."

Somewhat troubling that the Marxists are still gaining support in their efforts to divide not only the country where they live, but create angry attacks on everyone "white".

We should be working to end racism and ethnic hate, but instead, the politics of some special interest groups like BLM are creating further division.

Its not just BLM, its all around the world. Look at what is trending on Twitter this morning. 1million posts. British football clubs. Harvard students. Gen Z. All pro-Palestine.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Palestine&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 25, 2023, 15:41
Just something odd in the news today.

"Black Lives Matter Grassroots stands in solidarity with our Palestinian family who are currently resisting 75 years of settler colonialism and apartheid."
https://twitter.com/blmgrassroots/status/1714005282807071196

Yeees! Fun things to do. I looked at their website and noticed one feature. Why are they all overweight? Is it because apartheid torments them?
And what does it mean "Black Lives Matter Grassroots"? This is pure racial discrimination! As far as I know, saying "Black" is illegal. It's correct to say African-American. Or did I understand something wrong?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 25, 2023, 15:52
Annie2022, Is this your second account or are you the wrong Annie?
Why did you delete all your posts on the forum? Are you afraid of Russians?
 :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 25, 2023, 15:53
Just something odd in the news today.

"Black Lives Matter Grassroots stands in solidarity with our Palestinian family who are currently resisting 75 years of settler colonialism and apartheid."
https://twitter.com/blmgrassroots/status/1714005282807071196

The founder of Black Lives Matter Los Angeles has pledged allegiance to Palestine stating that the real enemy is the "Israeli apartheid regime."


Pete, we are in a situation where everyone on social media feels compelled to take a stand on the conflict without any knowledge.

In my opinion, the bird has been shot down by some queer people who are suddenly advocating radical Islam. Have fun then as a homosexual in the Gaza Strip or in Iran.

Today I came across a video worth watching from an Israeli woman who described the conflict quite well:

https://twitter.com/Atheist_Krishna/status/1716363653048676517

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 25, 2023, 16:03
It has long been no secret to anyone that the kremlin is the stronghold of all dictatorial regimes in the world. russia is a legally recognized state sponsor of terrorism. Further confirmation of this is the disclosure of materials on the recruitment at the state level by the Ministry of Assault the russian federation for mercenaries from Cuba.
https://informnapalm.org/en/cuban-mercenaries-2/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on October 25, 2023, 16:50
Annie2022, Is this your second account or are you the wrong Annie?
Why did you delete all your posts on the forum? Are you afraid of Russians?
 :)

???
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 26, 2023, 01:51
Annie2022, Is this your second account or are you the wrong Annie?
Why did you delete all your posts on the forum? Are you afraid of Russians?
 :)

yes
::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 26, 2023, 06:26
We also need to check the version to see if he was recruited by the KGB.

Nah.... he simply has business interests to defend both with russia and China.
He is posing as the savior of the world, when in fact, he needs their raw resources for his business.
A hypocrite.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Injustice for all on October 26, 2023, 10:27
"you labeled me,i'll label you".
"I label you,you'll label me".

"The Unforgiven" Metallica

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 26, 2023, 12:42
Just something odd in the news today.

"Black Lives Matter Grassroots stands in solidarity with our Palestinian family who are currently resisting 75 years of settler colonialism and apartheid."
https://twitter.com/blmgrassroots/status/1714005282807071196

The founder of Black Lives Matter Los Angeles has pledged allegiance to Palestine stating that the real enemy is the "Israeli apartheid regime."

Chicago: "Yesterday we sent out msgs that we aren’t proud of," BLM Chicago said in a post on X. "We stand with Palestine & the people who will do what they must to live free. Our hearts are with, the grieving mothers, those rescuing babies from rubble, who are in danger of being wiped out completely."

Somewhat troubling that the Marxists are still gaining support in their efforts to divide not only the country where they live, but create angry attacks on everyone "white".

We should be working to end racism and ethnic hate, but instead, the politics of some special interest groups like BLM are creating further division.

Its not just BLM, its all around the world. Look at what is trending on Twitter this morning. 1million posts. British football clubs. Harvard students. Gen Z. All pro-Palestine.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Palestine&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

Thanks for that insight. I'm kind of dumb to politics, I find it divides and creates anger, mostly as one group or another wants more power for their political agendas, ignoring the freedom and rights of others, to have opposing viewpoints.

The same questions are asked about how someone like "H" took over Germany, the people followed, which created so much hate. Or more recently "T" that got elected President, and people followed? Yet the antisemitic leanings of some modern groups, follow the same lines of just taking a side that has little to do with their own lives.

Every time I read how some Women's movement supports the enforced wearing of Hijabs, which is totally control based, ordered by men, not self deterministic feminists. How can supporting misogyny be tolerated? What is it about the radical left, that makes them antisemitic?

Soccer clubs, what does a persons religion or nation have to do with that? I suppose, going back, not too long ago, the country clubs were somewhat self segregated, not just by race, but also by religion. Some of that was, people who wanted to be with like minded others, but also, if one group couldn't be part of "the club", then they could form their own club.

I hope this isn't off topic. I know I started the thread, but it was just an off topic comment. I never expected it to snowball.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 26, 2023, 13:17
Just something odd in the news today.

"Black Lives Matter Grassroots stands in solidarity with our Palestinian family who are currently resisting 75 years of settler colonialism and apartheid."
https://twitter.com/blmgrassroots/status/1714005282807071196

Yeees! Fun things to do. I looked at their website and noticed one feature. Why are they all overweight? Is it because apartheid torments them?
And what does it mean "Black Lives Matter Grassroots"? This is pure racial discrimination! As far as I know, saying "Black" is illegal. It's correct to say African-American. Or did I understand something wrong?

No comment on physical appearances from me. Many of these women, the ones who created BLM and many of their chapters are highly educated. Not that I agree with them, but they are skilled and intelligent. They clearly admit or advertise their agendas, and align with the political view that they are openly Marxist.

This is not something I'm just shouting or calling them names. They are Marxists.

The Grassroots, is apparently chapters that have broken away from the national or are not recognized as part of that. Or don't want to be. Radical splits from the radical group.  :o

I believe Black is acceptable, the other N word isn't, unless you are Black or singing along with a Rap song. Blacks that I have worked with call each other Nigga, I never would touch that. Negro was polite when I was being raised, now it's unacceptable. There are Black people who disagree with African-American and there's always the argument that Africa isn't a country it's the whole continent? Last I was told in polite circles is, we are "people of color". I'm sure that offends some other people of other colors?  ;D I'll tag that with, I recall blacks don't like being called colored either?

One of my strictly left leaning friends, reminds me the the right is afraid of brown people. That's apparently meant to include, Hispanics, dark skin, Indigenous, Latinx, and people who identify as Brown. (aka people who do not identify as white or black) Although there's some complication, because of the fact that, in South Africa, the "brown people" were the Coloureds and people of mixed race.

The the Asian question, at what point is there a difference between Southern Asia and Northern. And I'd never insult someone by calling them yellow. Clearly I've been told, "We are not Orientals, we are not rugs." So lesson learned on that point.

Last, really off point, but coming from Southern Italian heritage, Italians were discriminated against, maybe still are, because they are dark skinned. During the Summer I get darker than some of my Indonesian friends. I must be one of "those brown people" that the right wing is afraid of?  ;)

BLM in so many ways has tricked people into believing that they are an upstanding cause for the betterment of black culture, society and protecting against abuse and violence from authority. What's the line? The greatest trick the devil ever played, was convincing people that he wasn't real. BLM sounds innocent, sounds like a socially positive organization, and who could be against someone that claims to be protecting justice, freedom and civil rights. 

If that's what they really did and stood for, I'd be right in line behind them. Instead their goal is to bring down the government of the United States. And once again, not my claim or labeling, it's one of their stated goals, taken from the founders website. People have been tricked and fooled, by a name and imagination that BLM is a positive, socially driven group, for defending Black rights and for being against racism.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 26, 2023, 13:55
What is it about the radical left, that makes them antisemitic?
There is another version. Anti-Semitism appeared after Chr.ist was crucified. Chr.ist was crucified due to the fault of the Jews. Therefore, for centuries the Jews did not have their own country and for centuries anti-Simetism was strong. This is like God's punishment!
 :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on October 26, 2023, 14:56
Just something odd in the news today.

"Black Lives Matter Grassroots stands in solidarity with our Palestinian family who are currently resisting 75 years of settler colonialism and apartheid."
https://twitter.com/blmgrassroots/status/1714005282807071196

The founder of Black Lives Matter Los Angeles has pledged allegiance to Palestine stating that the real enemy is the "Israeli apartheid regime."

Chicago: "Yesterday we sent out msgs that we aren’t proud of," BLM Chicago said in a post on X. "We stand with Palestine & the people who will do what they must to live free. Our hearts are with, the grieving mothers, those rescuing babies from rubble, who are in danger of being wiped out completely."

Somewhat troubling that the Marxists are still gaining support in their efforts to divide not only the country where they live, but create angry attacks on everyone "white".

We should be working to end racism and ethnic hate, but instead, the politics of some special interest groups like BLM are creating further division.

Its not just BLM, its all around the world. Look at what is trending on Twitter this morning. 1million posts. British football clubs. Harvard students. Gen Z. All pro-Palestine.

https://twitter.com/search?q=Palestine&src=trend_click&vertical=trends

Thanks for that insight. I'm kind of dumb to politics, I find it divides and creates anger, mostly as one group or another wants more power for their political agendas, ignoring the freedom and rights of others, to have opposing viewpoints.

The same questions are asked about how someone like "H" took over Germany, the people followed, which created so much hate. Or more recently "T" that got elected President, and people followed? Yet the antisemitic leanings of some modern groups, follow the same lines of just taking a side that has little to do with their own lives.

Every time I read how some Women's movement supports the enforced wearing of Hijabs, which is totally control based, ordered by men, not self deterministic feminists. How can supporting misogyny be tolerated? What is it about the radical left, that makes them antisemitic?

Soccer clubs, what does a persons religion or nation have to do with that? I suppose, going back, not too long ago, the country clubs were somewhat self segregated, not just by race, but also by religion. Some of that was, people who wanted to be with like minded others, but also, if one group couldn't be part of "the club", then they could form their own club.

I hope this isn't off topic. I know I started the thread, but it was just an off topic comment. I never expected it to snowball.

Yes, Pete. It surprised me too. But I don't believe it is antisemitism or racism that is at the core of it all.

There was a belief when Hamas made the first surprise attack on Israel (which was horrendous and despicable) that Iran possibly was behind it, or at the very least supporting Hamas in some way. And Israel is now responding exactly how they intended: a huge and unproportional response to what had happened to them. Gaza is now being decimated and that is what a lot of world is objecting to.  Its less to do with politics and more to do with basic humanity.

When, Netanyahu, Israels current leader, recently came back to power, many cringed. He is not a well-liked man to many, including Biden, who has had issues with him in the past.

Zero probably summed it up best in a previous post:

"The main responsible is Netanyahu and his extreme right government, represented by Ben-Gvir, the minister of national security (aka minister of chaos), the leader of the Otzma Yehudit, or Jewish Power hyper-nationalist far-right party, idelogicaly similar to make america great again hyper-nationalist republicans.

Similar to our maga republicans, they were busy fighting cultural wars, imaginary woke "threats" and whatnot, and worse, the democratic justice system, instead of paying attention to the real threats Israel was facing.
How could the minister of national security fail to identify the build-up, under his nose, of many thousands of rockets arsenal is beyond comprehension.

Paralells can be drawn to 9/11. But GWB may have the excuse that those attacks were unique and unprecedented.

Netanyahu has no such excuses and will go down in history as one of the most incompetent prime-ministers (drawing another parallel to his idelogical brother, trump, one of most incompetent american presidents)

Having said that, hamas' attack on civilians is an attrocity, no different than the russian attacks on Ukraine's civilians.
hamas killed hundreds of civilians attending a festival for peace, russia killed a sixth of the Hroza village inhabitants, attending the wake of a fallen soldier (horrific images below)

Both hamas and the russian government are terrorist organizations."



What we are left with is an extremely difficult and somewhat terrifying situation, especially now that many groups and countries across the world are responding exactly how Iran and Hamas possibly intended: that Palestinians are the victims, and Israel is the aggressor.

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 26, 2023, 15:05
What is it about the radical left, that makes them antisemitic?
There is another version. Anti-Semitism appeared after Chr.ist was crucified. Chr.ist was crucified due to the fault of the Jews. Therefore, for centuries the Jews did not have their own country and for centuries anti-Simetism was strong. This is like God's punishment!
 :-\

Yeah, and besides Jesus was a Jew! Start to think about that, the Israelites were cast out of their land by the Romans in 70 CE. For those who live there now, they are the Jewish Nation, not a religion. I'm not going to deny that a more tolerant co-existence, with peace, would be a better solution for all involved. But since this battle and division has been going on for over 2.000 years, what does my opinion matter, or, how does anyone think there can be an easy resolution.

ps according to a recent geology report, it's very possible that my relatives participated in the crusades. (as mercenaries) And people wonder why the Muslims hate the Christians? The goal of the crusades, in short, was the Western European church and government... rulers, joining together, to stop the spread of Islam.


Both hamas and the russian government are terrorist organizations."

What we are left with is an extremely difficult and somewhat terrifying situation, especially now that many groups and countries across the world are responding exactly how Iran and Hamas possibly intended: that Palestinians are the victims, and Israel is the aggressor.


Yes and True
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 26, 2023, 15:28
Yeah, and besides Jesus was a Jew!
1. He might be a Jew, but according to religion he is God. God who was born among the Jews. And because of the Jews, he was crucified. This resulted in punishment.
2. According to religion, the virgin birth occurred, which means Chr.ist was not a Jew.
 :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 26, 2023, 15:31
Palestinians are the victims, and Israel is the aggressor.
1. As far as I know, the Palestinians want the destruction of the state of Israel.
2. Anti-Semitism is very strong on the planet, so Jews will always be to blame.
3. Israel's actions are correct, this Hamas poses a constant threat, so it will be eliminated.
4. The Russians also pose a threat, and therefore must also be eliminated.

The axis of all world evil has already been named: China, russia and Iran.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 26, 2023, 17:51
Palestinians are the victims, and Israel is the aggressor.
1. As far as I know, the Palestinians want the destruction of the state of Israel.
2. Anti-Semitism is very strong on the planet, so Jews will always be to blame.
3. Israel's actions are correct, this Hamas poses a constant threat, so it will be eliminated.
4. The Russians also pose a threat, and therefore must also be eliminated.

The axis of all world evil has already been named: China, russia and Iran.

Here we have a curve, not an axis!
Hungary, belarus, russia, Iran, Syria, China, North Korea
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 26, 2023, 17:52
Anti-Semitism and being against genocide which Israeli Zionists are blatantly committing for decades against people of Palestine on their own land are two different things. They should peacefully accept that extermination of their children is the only way? Sure.

Billions of people and the majority of the worlds population support Palestine in their rightful goal for liberation and freedom on the land that was occupied by Europeans and given to foreign settlers imported from Europe.

 

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 26, 2023, 18:12
Countries that have recognized the State of Palestine:


(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/08/Palestine_recognition_only.svg/900px-Palestine_recognition_only.svg.png)

Enough said
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 27, 2023, 07:59
Anti-Semitism and being against genocide which Israeli Zionists are blatantly committing for decades against people of Palestine on their own land are two different things. They should peacefully accept that extermination of their children is the only way? Sure.

Billions of people and the majority of the worlds population support Palestine in their rightful goal for liberation and freedom on the land that was occupied by Europeans and given to foreign settlers imported from Europe.

The main thing, while defending the long-suffering people of Palestine, is not to end up getting a bottle in the anus or being beaten for the title “Hero of russia.” Think about it sometimes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 27, 2023, 08:15
@Lizard
This is highly debatable.

Don't mix the Palestinians with the Arabs.

The Philistines originated from Crete/Aegean Sea and settled in a small area of what is today's Israel.
That land was subsequently colonized by Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Romans, Arabs, Mamlukes, Ottomans, and the British.

Remember that the Arab empire was a vast colonial empire emerging from tribes originating from the Arabian peninsula. They also colonized the lands belonging to the tribes of Israel and much more. There was never an Arab nation.
See the Arab colonial empire maximum extent below.

It's funny that you don't like Israeli "colonialism", you keep on moaning about the defunct Western "colonialism" (as you learned it from your Marxist history deeply engraved in your brain), and you are anti-American because of the same reasons (although the US was a colony itself). Still, you are against Ukraine's struggle for freedom from russian imperialism and colonialism.

A bit of consistency, one way or the other, would be advisable!

Edit: map with countries recognizing the modern state of Israel, below (including your country):

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 27, 2023, 09:28
Russian trolls do not have their own opinions, they do not know how to think, their knowledge is zero. They are paid only to spread Russian propaganda according to KGB manuals.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 27, 2023, 11:12
Yeah, and besides Jesus was a Jew!
1. He might be a Jew, but according to religion he is God. God who was born among the Jews. And because of the Jews, he was crucified. This resulted in punishment.
2. According to religion, the virgin birth occurred, which means Chr.ist was not a Jew.
 :-\

You can debate, toss in theology and whatever other minor interpretations, such as church dogma. "Jesus (c. 6 to 4 BC – AD 30 or 33), also referred to as Jes.us Chr.ist (the forum has a funny way of censoring that one, Jeepers Creepers), Jesus of Nazareth, and many other names and titles, was a first-century Jewish preacher and religious leader."

Facts are facts. Religion is beliefs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 27, 2023, 12:01
@Lizard
This is highly debatable.



Not debatable at all, a peace of land in the middle of the middle east controlled by Brits, french and Russians and given to a third party to import European settlers is pure example of tyranny.

And a dislike Russian imperialism at same level as i do American, British, French, Spanish, Dutch.... . Absolutely same principles of tyranny with the difference that the Israeli is happening now.

You forgot to comment that they just killed more children in last two weeks than Russian in last few years. But thats ok, they have license to kill. And their foreign politics is so aggressive that they dare to attack high members of UN, foreign politicians, presidents, prime ministers, Nobel prize winners and that democracy and freedom of speech is a foreign entity for them which they don't recognize.

The victims of yesterday become Naz.is of today in all their glory.   
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 27, 2023, 12:38
Anti-Semitism and being against genocide which Israeli Zionists are blatantly committing for decades against people of Palestine on their own land are two different things. They should peacefully accept that extermination of their children is the only way? Sure.

Billions of people and the majority of the worlds population support Palestine in their rightful goal for liberation and freedom on the land that was occupied by Europeans and given to foreign settlers imported from Europe.

There are certainly good arguments from recent history against both Israel and the Palestinian Arabs - no one has covered themselves with glory here.

However, your argumentation contradicts some real historical facts.

Unfortunately you are in good company with people like Greta Thunberg. To me it shows that some schooling is not necessarily harmful  ;)

The Jews are historically entrenched in the region, even before BC. There have also been some Jewish state-like entities in the region throughout history.  The State of Israel was not established in the State of Palestine, but in the British protectorate after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, before that Mamlyuk Islamic State of Egypt, before that the Empire of Ayubid, etc. There was no Palestinian state here until 1988.

Historically, Palestine is not a state, but a region on the Mediterranean Sea that was populated by Arabs, Christians and Jews. The state of Palestine was proclaimed only in 1988 by the PLO and then disintegrated itself through the dispute between Hamas and Fatah. There have been no elections here since 2006.

If Hamas had actually attacked only military installations, that would have been understandable in the historical context. We know that they did not. With October 7, however, HAMAS itself has moved the conflict to another dimension and is therefore responsible for the current catastrophic situation.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 27, 2023, 13:53
Facts are facts.
I write about the facts, Jews are not loved anywhere, anti-Semitism is everywhere, they have not had their own country for thousands of years. And only thanks to the UN the Jews received their land, but as we see, this land is burning under their feet. And how can we not remember religion and God?
Of course, democracy will support the Jews, maybe heaven will forgive them.  :)

We want to help the Jews, but heaven does not want or continues to punish them. This is bad, bad for all democratic countries. Pope Francis also supports Russians and totalitarianism. Democracy has many enemies and difficulties. Evil can win.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 27, 2023, 15:18

And a dislike Russian imperialism at same level as i do American, British, French, Spanish, Dutch.... .

It doesn't look like. What you obviously dislike is Ukraine's fight AGAINST russian colonialism. You constantly found excuses for putin's colonial invasion of Ukraine.

And if you dislike those western colonial empires, you should also dislike the Arab colonialism and its consequences.

Check my previous post: Arab Palestinians are not the ancient Aegean Palestinians/Philistines, but Arab settlers and conquerors.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 27, 2023, 17:24
So, as I see it, democracies are losing the information war against the axis of evil. In many countries there are protests against Jews, everyone is shouting like crazy about freedom for Palestine.
Yes, freedom, from Hamas!!!
But rallies in support of Israel are nowhere to be seen.
Russian and Arab propaganda have results.
I believe that losing the information war should not stop the Israeli army from eliminating Hamas and clearing Palestinian territory of terrorists.
There is a third world war, evil must be eliminated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 27, 2023, 18:47
Anti-Semitism and being against genocide which Israeli Zionists are blatantly committing for decades against people of Palestine on their own land are two different things. They should peacefully accept that extermination of their children is the only way? Sure.

Billions of people and the majority of the worlds population support Palestine in their rightful goal for liberation and freedom on the land that was occupied by Europeans and given to foreign settlers imported from Europe.

There are certainly good arguments from recent history against both Israel and the Palestinian Arabs - no one has covered themselves with glory here.

However, your argumentation contradicts some real historical facts.

Unfortunately you are in good company with people like Greta Thunberg. To me it shows that some schooling is not necessarily harmful  ;)

The Jews are historically entrenched in the region, even before BC. There have also been some Jewish state-like entities in the region throughout history.  The State of Israel was not established in the State of Palestine, but in the British protectorate after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, before that Mamlyuk Islamic State of Egypt, before that the Empire of Ayubid, etc. There was no Palestinian state here until 1988.

Historically, Palestine is not a state, but a region on the Mediterranean Sea that was populated by Arabs, Christians and Jews. The state of Palestine was proclaimed only in 1988 by the PLO and then disintegrated itself through the dispute between Hamas and Fatah. There have been no elections here since 2006.

If Hamas had actually attacked only military installations, that would have been understandable in the historical context. We know that they did not. With October 7, however, HAMAS itself has moved the conflict to another dimension and is therefore responsible for the current catastrophic situation.

The only one needs schooling is you  ;)

Huge majority of people in Israel today are 2.-3. generation of European settlers.

HAMAS is not people of Palestine like Irish people were not IRA. And I don't recall Irish settlements bombed to the ground after actions IRA performed, do you ?

BTW, recent UN voting to stop all military actions there speaks clearly what people of the world want and how much Israeli actions are supported around the globe. 

(https://ip.index.hr/remote/bucket.index.hr/b/index/fd197c4b-9964-4f9f-a2d3-e832f77100be.jpg?width=765&height=430)

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 27, 2023, 18:56

And a dislike Russian imperialism at same level as i do American, British, French, Spanish, Dutch.... .

It doesn't look like. What you obviously dislike is Ukraine's fight AGAINST russian colonialism. You constantly found excuses for putin's colonial invasion of Ukraine.

And if you dislike those western colonial empires, you should also dislike the Arab colonialism and its consequences.

Check my previous post: Arab Palestinians are not the ancient Aegean Palestinians/Philistines, but Arab settlers and conquerors.

As I recall, you said leave the past lets talk whats going on now.

I don't see a word from you condemning the fact that Israeli killed more children in last 2 weeks than Putin in Ukraine and there are multiple post where I wrote against what he does calling him a psycho.

That, makes you a clear example of a hypocrite which values a child life by the citizenship on his birth certificate  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 27, 2023, 19:17

And a dislike Russian imperialism at same level as i do American, British, French, Spanish, Dutch.... .

It doesn't look like. What you obviously dislike is Ukraine's fight AGAINST russian colonialism. You constantly found excuses for putin's colonial invasion of Ukraine.

And if you dislike those western colonial empires, you should also dislike the Arab colonialism and its consequences.

Check my previous post: Arab Palestinians are not the ancient Aegean Palestinians/Philistines, but Arab settlers and conquerors.

As I recall, you said leave the past lets talk whats going on now.

I don't see a word from you condemning the fact that Israeli killed more children in last 2 weeks than Putin in Ukraine and there are multiple post where I wrote against what he does calling him a psycho.

That, makes you a clear example of a hypocrite which values a child life by the citizenship on his birth certificate  ;)

Nope.
Here you have it: I condemn from the bottom of my heart the killings of children and civilians by Israeli forces, even if provoked by hamas.
At the same time, hamas is a terrorist organization, and you should never justify their terror and killing of children and innocent civilians by referencing some selective colonial past.

I was only arguing against your Marxist view of the world, and lack of knowledge in the history of those lands.

I told you that the situation is highly debatable, but you said it's not.
"Not debatable at all", you said.  ::)

Not debatable at all

Now you realize that the situation is highly debatable, indeed. You even debate it yourself.

This is progress! Good job!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on October 27, 2023, 20:58

Nope.
Here you have it: I condemn from the bottom of my heart the killings of children and civilians by Israeli forces, even if provoked by hamas.
At the same time, hamas is a terrorist organization, and you should never justify their terror and killing of children and innocent civilians by referencing to some selective colonial past.

I was only arguing against your marxist view of the world, and lack of knowledge in the history of those lands.

I told you that the situation is highly debatable, but you said it's not.
"Not at all", you said.  ::)

Now you realised that the situation is highly debatable, indeed. You even debate it yourself.

This is progress! Good job!

Good start. Now we can start talking...

So, if you want to debate, and i still think its useless, because its pretty clear , lets try...but with facts. If we dive deep into history we will for sure get stuck at a point where its impossible to define the situation with arguments because nobody never did and it can only lead to useless fights.

But we can certainly start the debate with using nothing but modern historical facts backed up arguments at the point just before the forces that are shaping the world in this moment got their hands on that land and what happened after.

So, lets start with episode one, and let me know if any of this statement is false.

- During WWI Britain and France needed help to fight Ottoman Empire and asked Arabs to join them. In return they promised sovereignty
and full control of Arab peninsula. In the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence ten letters that were exchanged from July 1915 to March 1916 Government of UK is clearly stating that.

-Then Sykes–Picot Agreement happened, where the lions were secretly dividing their middle east share by breaking the agreement they previously made with Arabs. But later it was revealed that the meeting actually took place on 23 November 1915. and ratified by their governments on the 9. and the 16. May 1916. That means that the beginning of modern European-Arab relationship started with crossed fingers behind the back and that Arabs were lied during almost whole McMahon–Hussein Correspondence time only to pull them into the war against Ottomans which controlled the area at the time.

As that western betray was a crucial moment, not only as first step of establishment of a new country, but in a much wider context concerning the whole middle east and wars that followed this has to be clear.

If this is not how things happened, here is a chance for anyone who has a wish to school me  ;), and if it did then we can continue from there.

So, can we agree on this or not ?
 






Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on October 27, 2023, 22:26
Yes, this is what happened.... among other things.
Again this is your way of conveniently selecting events that support your opinion, while neglecting what's not. In other words, propaganda.
As I told you already, the history of that area is highly debatable.

Actually, the Hashemites attempted first to strike an alliance with British, pre-war, in 1914. The British refused any engagements against the Ottomans, who were then a friendly nation.

The Ottomans (the Young Turks) negociated both with the Germans and the British, trying to secure support against their biggest threat, russia. The Germans made the best offer and the Ottomans joined the Axis. Only then the British remembered the old offer made by the Hashemites, initiating the above mentioned correspondence.

Meanwhile, the Jihad against the French, British and russian colonial empires called by the Germans and the Ottomans had a strong appeal among Arabs.
Colonial Muslims responded to the sultan’s appeal in such distant places as the Australia and Singapore.
Moreover, also Indian Muslims appeared more inclined to support the Ottomans. This is why the British cancelled their initial assistance pledged to the Hashemites, fearing that the Indian Muslims will be driven to Jihad by outrage over Christian soldiers setting foot on the sacred land of the Hijaz.

The Bristish did something similar, rallying Jewish support through the Balfour Declaration.

Btw, by using your logic, you should rather blame Gavrilo Princip instead of the British, for all of this.  ;)

Anyway, you should also add that besides England and France discussing how to divide the Ottoman Empire, there was another colonial empire, allied with them, russia, doing exactly the same.

russia's eyes were on Istanbul and the Bosphorus straights, attempting to fulfill Peter the Great's legacy left to his successors, to transform the Black Sea in a russian lake.

Something russia's current emperor, rest assured, is still pushing for. But for now, Ukraine is in his way.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 28, 2023, 02:48
Wow, you have a knowledge of history! Or maybe, for understanding, it’s worth talking about who agreed on what during the time of Alexander the Great?
Lizard, you didn’t answer - where are the biological laboratories, pigeons infected with a deadly virus that can only kill russians, where are the “combat mosquitoes”, NATO bases and other crap invented by russia (the international sponsor of terrorism) as the reason for russia’s attack on Ukraine?
I answer right away - I know where in russia there are biological laboratories and where the most dangerous strains of smallpox are stored.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 28, 2023, 04:58
Anti-Semitism and being against genocide which Israeli Zionists are blatantly committing for decades against people of Palestine on their own land are two different things. They should peacefully accept that extermination of their children is the only way? Sure.

Billions of people and the majority of the worlds population support Palestine in their rightful goal for liberation and freedom on the land that was occupied by Europeans and given to foreign settlers imported from Europe.

There are certainly good arguments from recent history against both Israel and the Palestinian Arabs - no one has covered themselves with glory here.

However, your argumentation contradicts some real historical facts.

Unfortunately you are in good company with people like Greta Thunberg. To me it shows that some schooling is not necessarily harmful  ;)

The Jews are historically entrenched in the region, even before BC. There have also been some Jewish state-like entities in the region throughout history.  The State of Israel was not established in the State of Palestine, but in the British protectorate after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, before that Mamlyuk Islamic State of Egypt, before that the Empire of Ayubid, etc. There was no Palestinian state here until 1988.

Historically, Palestine is not a state, but a region on the Mediterranean Sea that was populated by Arabs, Christians and Jews. The state of Palestine was proclaimed only in 1988 by the PLO and then disintegrated itself through the dispute between Hamas and Fatah. There have been no elections here since 2006.

If Hamas had actually attacked only military installations, that would have been understandable in the historical context. We know that they did not. With October 7, however, HAMAS itself has moved the conflict to another dimension and is therefore responsible for the current catastrophic situation.

The only one needs schooling is you  ;)

Huge majority of people in Israel today are 2.-3. generation of European settlers.

HAMAS is not people of Palestine like Irish people were not IRA. And I don't recall Irish settlements bombed to the ground after actions IRA performed, do you ?

BTW, recent UN voting to stop all military actions there speaks clearly what people of the world want and how much Israeli actions are supported around the globe. 

(https://ip.index.hr/remote/bucket.index.hr/b/index/fd197c4b-9964-4f9f-a2d3-e832f77100be.jpg?width=765&height=430)

Where did I write that Hamas is to be equated with the Palestinian population?
 
The fact that the majority of the Israeli population are European settlers of the 2-3 generation does not contradict what I wrote.

BTW, since Russia has signed the resolution, I assume that the attack on Ukraine will also be stopped. But you are certainly better informed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 28, 2023, 09:14
Where did I write that Hamas is to be equated with the Palestinian population?
Who is Hamas made up of? Hamas consists of Palestinians population.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 28, 2023, 09:20
Russian military death toll in Ukraine rises to 298,420

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3779600-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-298420.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3779600-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-298420.html)

 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 28, 2023, 09:24
Democracy faces choice: either to defeat "coalition of evil" or to lose…

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3778850-democracy-faces-choice-either-to-defeat-coalition-of-evil-or-to-lose.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3778850-democracy-faces-choice-either-to-defeat-coalition-of-evil-or-to-lose.html)

Biden's speech: "We’re facing an inflection point in history. One of those moments where the decisions we make today are going to determine the future for decades to come... History has taught us that when terrorists don’t pay a price for their terror, when dictators don’t pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos and death and more destruction. Hamas and putin represent different threats, but they share this in common: they both want to completely annihilate a neighboring democracy." President Joe Biden emphasized that by defending allies such as Ukraine and Israel, the United States is safeguarding freedom and democracy and simultaneously making a substantial commitment to its own security. The speaker stressed that globally, it should be the United States leading the way, not russia, not Iran, and not China".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 28, 2023, 11:06
Where did I write that Hamas is to be equated with the Palestinian population?
Who is Hamas made up of? Hamas consists of Palestinians population.

You do know that over 1 million (about 20% of the population) Palestinian Arabs live largely peacefully in Israel with the Israelis?

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 28, 2023, 12:28
Where did I write that Hamas is to be equated with the Palestinian population?
Who is Hamas made up of? Hamas consists of Palestinians population.

You do know that over 1 million (about 20% of the population) Palestinian Arabs live largely peacefully in Israel with the Israelis?
I know. And what?
5% of Russians are also against war. Maybe even 20%. And what?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 28, 2023, 17:15
I overheard an interesting conversation today!  Video with captions.
https://youtu.be/CJ8_8G_AEY8?si=ZcVyHGIDiTpeFCuP
This rotten-toothed “miracle” with a plucked beard has lived almost his entire life in Ukraine, has a Ukrainian passport - but considers himself russian. When he was asked to explain in more detail what “russian” is, he was unable to do so. This is not surprising - natural stupidity. But he is not russian, he is not a Yakut, not an Uzbek, not a German, not an American, not a Chinese - he himself doesn’t really know who he is. He is the most ordinary separatist and Ukrainophobe.
He believes in secret American biological laboratories, in infected birds, determined to kill only russians. He believes that Ukraine has “combat mosquitoes” in its arsenal. He is sure that there are secret NATO bases in Ukraine and other propaganda nonsense spewed from russian television. Despite his slight degree of stupidity, he tries to show himself in the eyes of the interviewer as a competent and erudite person. He answers questions vaguely and evasively, as if a reptile is crawling. And he has an unimaginable desire to go at russia.
Lizard, it looks like this is your brother! It was Putin who wanted to protect him from the JewishBenderites. Why doesn't he take him on russia?
russians don’t abandon their own!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 29, 2023, 12:52
This rotten-toothed “miracle” with a plucked beard has lived almost his entire life in Ukraine, has a Ukrainian passport - but considers himself russian.
Shoot him. According to the laws of war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 29, 2023, 17:35
This rotten-toothed “miracle” with a plucked beard has lived almost his entire life in Ukraine, has a Ukrainian passport - but considers himself russian.
Shoot him. According to the laws of war.

Why should such a scoundrel be kept in prison at my expense? Send him upon Russia by any means!
Russia does not have enough fools for “meat assaults” near Avdiivka.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 29, 2023, 18:16
An angry crowd of Dagestanis broke into the Makhachkala airport: they were "looking for Jews" who were supposed to arrive on a flight from Israel.
This is not an isolated case in Makhachkala - it is part of a culture of hatred towards other peoples that is widespread in russia, which is promoted by state television, experts and the authorities.
Over the past year, the russian foreign minister has indulged in a number of anti-Semitic statements. The russian president also used anti-Semitic insults. For russian propagandists on official television, the rhetoric of hatred is commonplace. Even the current escalation in the Middle East has caused anti-Semitic statements by russian ideologues.

The top of the russian government are flawed chronically ill people!
They are even too lazy to read “Woe from Wit” again. They completely forgot Griboedov, the idiots.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 30, 2023, 06:54
Ah, here it turns out to be what’s going on!
https://t.me/moscowtimes_ru/16675
It turns out that the Judeo-Banderists from Ukraine are to blame for the attack of Muslim radicals on the airport in Makhachkala.  ;D ;D ;D
Can you imagine the degree of agility?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 30, 2023, 07:32
In the temporarily occupied Volnovakha of Donetsk region, the russian occupiers killed 9 people in their own house, including a 4th-grade student and a preschool boy.
Ukrainian journalist Denys Kazansky writes that local resident Nataliya Gorkun celebrated her birthday that day. The day before, her son-in-law Andrii Kapkanets quarreled with the "Kadyrivites" who tried to appropriate his house.
"The people of Kadyriv decided to take revenge. They broke right into the middle of a family feast and killed everyone who was present, including small children," writes Kazansky.  https://t.me/kazansky2017/8784
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 30, 2023, 08:32
In the temporarily occupied Volnovakha of Donetsk region, the russian occupiers killed 9 people in their own house, including a 4th-grade student and a preschool boy.
Ukrainian journalist Denys Kazansky writes that local resident Nataliya Gorkun celebrated her birthday that day. The day before, her son-in-law Andrii Kapkanets quarreled with the "Kadyrivites" who tried to appropriate his house.
"The people of Kadyriv decided to take revenge. They broke right into the middle of a family feast and killed everyone who was present, including small children," writes Kazansky.  https://t.me/kazansky2017/8784
The Russian army is committing genocide of the Ukrainian people. It includes both murders and deportation of Ukrainian children to the territory of russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 30, 2023, 08:48
"Russian Volunteer Corps" is a military unit consisting of ethnic Russians who fight on the side of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. It is known for its raids on the territory of the Russian Federation. But RVC fighters also take part in battles in the Zaporizhzhia direction, in eastern Ukraine and in other hot spots of the Russian-Ukrainian war.

Interviews with good Russians. There are subtitles and English translation. The sign [_] in the subtitles means obscene speech.

https://youtu.be/utQj6mRoAvY (https://youtu.be/utQj6mRoAvY)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 30, 2023, 08:54
For Putin foe Alexey Navalny, Ukraine has long been a volatile issue

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/27/navalny-ukraine-putin-russia/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/27/navalny-ukraine-putin-russia/)

They asked me who Navalny was. I said that he is the same as putin. Washingtonpost confirms my words. This Navalny is for the Russian empire and supports the occupation of Ukraine.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 30, 2023, 18:44
russian businessman Oleksiy Kuzmychev was arrested in France. He is one of the founders of LetterOne Group and "Alfa-groups". On March 15, 2022, Kuzmychev was included in the sanctions lists of the European Union together with the co-founder of "Alfa-groups" Herman Khan. They then owned 21% and 16% of the bank's capital. They transferred their shares to Andrii Kosogov.
According to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, Kuzmychev had a fortune of $5.4 billion before the russian invasion in Ukraine. Kuzmychev is suspected of violating sanctions legislation and tax crimes. His Paris apartment and villa in Saint-Tropez were searched. During the search, "bundles of money" were found.
https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2023/10/30/l-oligarque-russe-alexei-kouzmitchev-place-en-garde-a-vue-par-la-justice-francaise-dans-une-affaire-de-blanchiment_6197379_4355770.html (https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/article/2023/10/30/l-oligarque-russe-alexei-kouzmitchev-place-en-garde-a-vue-par-la-justice-francaise-dans-une-affaire-de-blanchiment_6197379_4355770.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 31, 2023, 04:14
russia has lost over 300,000 soldiers in Ukraine.


Glory to Ukraine!

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3780674-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-300810.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3780674-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-300810.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on October 31, 2023, 04:19
(https://scontent.fiev17-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/396706110_754846303323819_5971180376749888235_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=E1lu-Y4ZXq0AX9r8iWZ&_nc_ht=scontent.fiev17-2.fna&oh=00_AfCLZ5NgM3YglsqtHGkY6E5ACNVbm9Dke-ITU9DGR17Mcw&oe=65468BCD)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 31, 2023, 11:20
The Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights confirmed that it was the russians who launched a rocket attack on the village of Groza in the Kharkiv region on October 5.
All 59 victims were civilians, the report said.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-briefing-notes/2023/10/ukraine-report-hroza-missile-attack (https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-briefing-notes/2023/10/ukraine-report-hroza-missile-attack)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 31, 2023, 11:36
On the Kupyansk direction, the Russian invaders want to capture the Kupyansk-Vuzlovy railway junction.
At the same time, they use prohibited chemical weapons, said the commander of the intelligence unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Denys Yaroslavskyi.
https://gazeta.ua/articles/life/_himichna-zbroya-ta-potuzhni-obstrili-scho-vidbuvayetsya-na-kupyanskomu-napryamku/1162807
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 31, 2023, 11:44
The commander of the SSO, Major General Viktor Khorenko, gave his first major interview.
https://youtu.be/22cHBemwK5o?si=XjZFeRh5DftZ0Jce
Glory to Ukraine and its fearless warriors!
All enemies who treacherously attacked Ukraine will be condemned as war criminals or liquidated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on October 31, 2023, 12:00
russia has lost over 300,000 soldiers in Ukraine.


Glory to Ukraine!

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3780674-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-300810.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3780674-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-300810.html)

The number is certainly large. But most of those destroyed are the dregs of society. Murderers, rapists and *insult removed*. Even parents and relatives do not regret them, not to mention the state.
I have to admit that Prigogine had a great idea with the prisoners. Orcs need to be destroyed at least a million, then perhaps they will think about something. And that’s not a fact.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 01, 2023, 03:01
But most of those destroyed are the dregs of society.
Dregs of society, I consider 95% Russians.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 01, 2023, 03:39
Journalist Yuri Dud interviewed Vika Tsyganova, a singer, performer of the songs “Wagner” and “Give shells”, who actively supports the russian invasion of Ukraine. Dud invited only Tsyganova to an interview, but she came to the meeting with the journalist along with her husband, producer and her director Vadim Tsyganov. They discussed world government and talked a lot about Satanism. We also learned that Vladimir Putin was deceived when he made the decision on a full-scale invasion of Ukraine - Vadim Tsyganov believes that the war should have started in 2014 (even though that’s when it began). And, as it turned out, russia is “clearing the territory for the New Jerusalem” in Ukraine, where Jews from Israel will move. “We are all pawns of the world government. And we all need repentance,” says Vadim Tsyganov. In his opinion, Putin also needs repentance.
https://meduza.io/feature/2023/10/27/yuriy-dud-vzyal-intervyu-u-viki-tsyganovoy-i-ee-muzha-prodyusera-vadima-tsyganova
The orcs have a terry anti-Semitism from the lowest strata of the population to the very top. But when “Jewish pogroms” happen, as recently in Makhachkala, the Jewish Banderaites from Ukraine are to blame.
Journalist Yuri Dud reports that he interviewed another marginalized person - actor and TV presenter Oscar Kuchera. He says he supports the Russian army, but opposes the war.
So what, you say that this is the Russian intelligentsia? This is some choice stinking crap!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 01, 2023, 03:42
But most of those destroyed are the dregs of society.
Dregs of society, I consider 95% Russians.  ;D ;D ;D

It's very unfortunate, but I have to agree with you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 01, 2023, 04:22
@KoloradskayaTla
Avdiivka. I expected more from Russian zombies. Continuous meat assaults. In our area it didn’t even get to the point of shooting. Four Russian assault groups were liquidated to zero before the campaign... they are either zombies or on drugs or no longer human... they simply obediently go to the slaughter over the corpses of their comrades
...two armored personnel carriers brought the first group, one immediately burned out, the second was able to leave by landing troops, which died after 5 minutes... The remaining three groups arrived on foot, one died at the moment of deployment, the other two walked over their corpses 10 meters further and also died...
They saw the corpses perfectly well... they walked over them... they tried to hide behind them... I don’t understand what was in their heads... why did they need all this... to come to a foreign land and meekly die without a chance...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 01, 2023, 04:57
Avdiivka. Ukraine.
So, Russian zombies are moving towards the positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces without armored vehicles covering them. They walk, the dead fall, but the next zombies follow. Annie wrote that the number of soldiers does not matter. I'm not sure. The Ukrainian Armed Forces are constantly working with artillery, but Russian zombies are walking over corpses and moving forward. Horror film directors urgently need to go to Ukraine to film Russians, this is a 100% horror film.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 01, 2023, 14:27
A Hamas official on TV today, I'm afraid there's not much room for any negotiations or ceasefire for Israel:

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 01, 2023, 15:04
A Hamas official on TV today, I'm afraid there's not much room for any negotiations or ceasefire:

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199

I would like to know at least in a nutshell, so to speak, what the foreigner is talking about?
Eleven million views and still not in the news!!!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 01, 2023, 15:44
A Hamas official on TV today, I'm afraid there's not much room for any negotiations or ceasefire:

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199

I would like to know at least in a nutshell, so to speak, what the foreigner is talking about?
Eleven million views and still not in the news!!!


I don't know, probably 2 wars with global impact is a bit too much input for society.

What worries me extremely is the danger from within from extremists. In GERMANY, there is increasing aggression against Jews, houses are smeared with Jewish stars. Jewish institutions were pelted with Molotov cocktails and must now be protected. History is forgotten.

The same situation in other European countries and the USA.

It's worth taking a look here:

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites

In the USA, several doctors with Arabic roots have already been dismissed from their jobs because of disgusting anti-Semitic postings on social networks. Among them was a well-known vascular surgeon from Hollywood. At elite universities, Jewish students are openly threatened by fellow students. Frighteningly, it is not just an uneducated mob that is calling for an uprising here. Hatred of Jews seems to be very deeply rooted.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 01, 2023, 16:27
Evil has raised its head all over the world. Democratic countries need to use force against all anti-Semites. Any demonstrations should be dispersed the same way as was done in the 60s in the USA. For anti-Semitic statements, people should be imprisoned or deprived of citizenship, followed by deportation to the Arab world.
Evil attacks democracy, if democracy does not defend itself, evil will kill democracy. This is war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 01, 2023, 16:29
Jews are defenseless people, so they were persecuted. Everyone else is walking around, watching and afraid to protect Jewish women and children.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 01, 2023, 20:27
A Hamas official on TV today, I'm afraid there's not much room for any negotiations or ceasefire:

https://twitter.com/MEMRIReports/status/1719662664090075199

I would like to know at least in a nutshell, so to speak, what the foreigner is talking about?
Eleven million views and still not in the news!!!


I don't know, probably 2 wars with global impact is a bit too much input for society.

What worries me extremely is the danger from within from extremists. In GERMANY, there is increasing aggression against Jews, houses are smeared with Jewish stars. Jewish institutions were pelted with Molotov cocktails and must now be protected. History is forgotten.

The same situation in other European countries and the USA.

It's worth taking a look here:

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites

In the USA, several doctors with Arabic roots have already been dismissed from their jobs because of disgusting anti-Semitic postings on social networks. Among them was a well-known vascular surgeon from Hollywood. At elite universities, Jewish students are openly threatened by fellow students. Frighteningly, it is not just an uneducated mob that is calling for an uprising here. Hatred of Jews seems to be very deeply rooted.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, Ralf. Yes. War is difficult for you. In Europe they are firing ballistic missiles at peaceful cities. It’s your children, old people, women sleeping in their homes who are dying. It’s especially hard for you when you remember how satisfying and warm your life was with russian cheap gas. I really understand your difficulties.
Your “blue nose” doesn’t want to give missiles to Ukraine - then soon these missiles will be shoved up his ass. You, my friend, have played too much with tolerance and democracy. If democracy cannot defend itself, what . is democracy? Are you saying there is corruption in Ukraine? In Europe, corruption is a hundred times greater, and it is sophisticated. You apply sanctions to russia and continue to trade with it in roundabout ways. Did you think that when you appease the goblin with Georgia, Chechnya, Transnistria, he will become less militant? Ha, ha, ha! He is even more provoked by your greed and softness. History teaches Europe absolutely nothing.
No offense intended, but it’s interesting for me to watch how russia hits you remotely, and with your own weapon.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 02, 2023, 04:28
https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2023/11/01/the-commander-in-chief-of-ukraines-armed-forces-on-how-to-win-the-war (https://www.economist.com/by-invitation/2023/11/01/the-commander-in-chief-of-ukraines-armed-forces-on-how-to-win-the-war)

The commander-in-chief of Ukraine’s armed forces on how to win the war

(https://www.economist.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=834,quality=80,format=auto/content-assets/images/20231104_BID003.jpg)

Technology is the key as the war becomes “positional”, says Valery Zaluzhny

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 provoked a global security crisis. The assault on democracy by a morally sick imperial power in the heart of Europe has tilted the balance of power in other parts of the world, including the Middle East and Asia-Pacific. The failure of multilateral bodies such as the un and Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe to maintain order means that Ukraine can only restore its territorial integrity by military force.

Ukrainians have shown their willingness to lay down soul and body for their freedom. Ukraine not only halted an invasion by a far stronger enemy but liberated much of its territory. However, the war is now moving to a new stage: what we in the military call “positional” warfare of static and attritional fighting, as in the first world war, in contrast to the “manoeuvre” warfare of movement and speed. This will benefit Russia, allowing it to rebuild its military power, eventually threatening Ukraine’s armed forces and the state itself. What is the way out?

Basic weapons, such as missiles and shells, remain essential. But Ukraine’s armed forces need key military capabilities and technologies to break out of this kind of war. The most important one is air power. Control of the skies is essential to large-scale ground operations. At the start of the war we had 120 warplanes. Of these, only one-third were usable.

Russia’s air force has taken huge losses and we have destroyed over 550 of its air-defence systems, but it maintains a significant advantage over us and continues to build new attack squadrons. That advantage has made it harder for us to advance. Russia’s air-defence systems increasingly prevent our planes from flying. Our defences do the same to Russia. So Russian drones have taken over a large part of the role of manned aviation in terms of reconnaissance and air strikes.

Drones must be part of our answer, too. Ukraine needs to conduct massive strikes using decoy and attack drones to overload Russia’s air-defence systems. We need to hunt down Russian drones using our own hunter drones equipped with nets. We must use signal-emitting decoys to attract Russian glide bombs. And we need to blind Russian drones’ thermal cameras at night using stroboscopes.

This points to our second priority: electronic warfare (ew), such as jamming communication and navigation signals. EW is the key to victory in the drone war. Russia modernised its ew forces over the past decade, creating a new branch of its army and building 60 new types of equipment. It outdoes us in this area: 65% of our jamming platforms at the start of the war were produced in Soviet times.

We have already built many of our own electronic protection systems, which can prevent jamming. But we also need more access to electronic intelligence from our allies, including data from assets that collect signals intelligence, and expanded production lines for our anti-drone ew systems within Ukraine and abroad. We need to get better at conducting electronic warfare from our drones, across a wider range of the radio spectrum, while avoiding accidental suppression of our own drones.

The third task is counter-battery fire: defeating enemy artillery. In this war, as in most past wars, artillery, rocket and missile fire make up 60-80% of all the military tasks. When we first received Western guns last year, we were quite successful at locating and striking Russian artillery. But the effectiveness of weapons such as Excalibur, a gps-guided American shell, has declined dramatically owing to improved Russian electronic warfare.

Meanwhile, Russia’s own counter-battery fire has improved. This is largely thanks to its use of Lancet loitering munitions, which work alongside reconnaissance drones, and its increasing production of precision-guided shells that can be aimed by ground spotters. Despite the dismissive view of some military analysts, we cannot belittle the effectiveness of Russian weapons and intelligence in this regard.

For now, we have managed to achieve parity with Russia through a smaller quantity of more accurate firepower. But this may not last. We need to build up our local gps fields—using ground-based antennas rather than just satellites—to make our precision-guided shells more accurate in the face of Russian jamming. We need to make greater use of kamikaze drones to strike Russian artillery. And we need our partners to send us better artillery-reconnaissance equipment that can locate Russian guns.

The fourth task is mine-breaching technology. We had limited and outdated equipment for this at the start of the war. But even Western supplies, such as Norwegian mine-clearing tanks and rocket-powered mine-clearing devices, have proved insufficient given the scale of Russian minefields, which stretch back 20km in places. When we do breach minefields, Russia quickly replenishes them by firing new mines from a distance.

Technology is the answer. We need radar-like sensors that use invisible pulses of light to detect mines in the ground and smoke-projection systems to conceal the activities of our de-mining units. We can use jet engines from decommissioned aircraft, water cannons or cluster munitions to breach mine barriers without digging into the ground. New types of tunnel excavators, such as a robot which uses plasma torches to bore tunnels, can also help.

My fifth and final priority is to build up our reserves. Russia has failed to capitalise on its hefty manpower advantage because Vladimir Putin is worried that a general mobilisation might spark a political crisis, and because Russia cannot train and equip enough people. However, our capacity to train reserves on our own territory is also limited. We cannot easily spare soldiers who are deployed to the front. Moreover, Russia can strike training centres. And there are gaps in our legislation that allow citizens to evade their responsibilities.

We are trying to fix these problems. We are introducing a unified register of draftees, and we must expand the category of citizens who can be called up for training or mobilisation. We are also introducing a “combat internship”, which involves placing newly mobilised and trained personnel in experienced front-line units to prepare them.

Russia should not be underestimated. It has suffered heavy losses and expended a lot of ammunition. But it will have superiority in weapons, equipment, missiles and ammunition for a considerable time. Its defence industry is increasing its output, despite unprecedented sanctions. Our nato partners are dramatically increasing their production capacity, too. But it takes at least a year to do this and, in some cases, such as aircraft and command-and-control systems, two years.

A positional war is a prolonged one that carries enormous risks to Ukraine’s armed forces and to its state. If Ukraine is to escape from that trap, we will need all these things: air superiority, much-improved electronic-warfare and counter-battery capabilities, new mine-breaching technology and the ability to mobilise and train more reserves. We also need to focus on modern command and control—so we can visualise the battlefield more effectively than Russia and make decisions more quickly—and on rationalising our logistics while disrupting Russia’s with longer-range missiles. New, innovative approaches can turn this war of position back into one of manoeuvre.■

General Valery Zaluzhny is commander-in-chief of Ukraine’s armed forces. He has held the position since July 2021.

Read a more detailed new essay by General Zaluzhny on this topic:

https://infographics.economist.com/2023/ExternalContent/ZALUZHNYI_FULL_VERSION.pdf (https://infographics.economist.com/2023/ExternalContent/ZALUZHNYI_FULL_VERSION.pdf)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 02, 2023, 04:35
Yes, Ralf. Yes. War is difficult for you. In Europe they are firing ballistic missiles at peaceful cities. It’s your children, old people, women sleeping in their homes who are dying. It’s especially hard for you when you remember how satisfying and warm your life was with russian cheap gas. I really understand your difficulties.
Your “blue nose” doesn’t want to give missiles to Ukraine - then soon these missiles will be shoved up his ass. You, my friend, have played too much with tolerance and democracy. If democracy cannot defend itself, what . is democracy? Are you saying there is corruption in Ukraine? In Europe, corruption is a hundred times greater, and it is sophisticated. You apply sanctions to russia and continue to trade with it in roundabout ways. Did you think that when you appease the goblin with Georgia, Chechnya, Transnistria, he will become less militant? Ha, ha, ha! He is even more provoked by your greed and softness. History teaches Europe absolutely nothing.
No offense intended, but it’s interesting for me to watch how russia hits you remotely, and with your own weapon.
+100

I always write that the approach of the EU countries and the USA to the occupation of Ukraine only encourages terrorist countries to carry out new terrorist attacks. Residents of EU countries think that Ukraine's problems are only Ukraine's problems and that Ukraine needs to be given to putin so that the Russians can occupy it.
And this is instead of giving the necessary weapons to Ukraine and introducing deadly sanctions against the Russians back in 2014.
The Germans do not understand that besides the Russians, there are also Chinese and Arab terrorists who have already come to their house and are doing whatever they want. There will be more to come.

My recommendations.
1. Provide Ukraine with 200 F16.
2. Include Ukraine in NATO.
3. The NATO bloc should take all Russian occupiers on the territory of Ukraine under fire control.
4. KGB agent Merkel sent to prison.

The implementation of these points will very quickly stop the terrorist countries that are part of the axis of evil.

Otherwise, the war will spread to the territory of many EU countries, including Germany.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 02, 2023, 15:58

Yes, Ralf. Yes. War is difficult for you. In Europe they are firing ballistic missiles at peaceful cities. It’s your children, old people, women sleeping in their homes who are dying. It’s especially hard for you when you remember how satisfying and warm your life was with russian cheap gas. I really understand your difficulties.
Your “blue nose” doesn’t want to give missiles to Ukraine - then soon these missiles will be shoved up his ass. You, my friend, have played too much with tolerance and democracy. If democracy cannot defend itself, what . is democracy? Are you saying there is corruption in Ukraine? In Europe, corruption is a hundred times greater, and it is sophisticated. You apply sanctions to russia and continue to trade with it in roundabout ways. Did you think that when you appease the goblin with Georgia, Chechnya, Transnistria, he will become less militant? Ha, ha, ha! He is even more provoked by your greed and softness. History teaches Europe absolutely nothing.
No offense intended, but it’s interesting for me to watch how russia hits you remotely, and with your own weapon.

Hmm, I wrote about Israel and now you're coming up with corruption in Europe and Ukraine?

BTW, Russia hasn't hit us, we have the situation here very well under control.

I don't understand your comment or the context. You are quickly embedded in stoker's world view  ;)

War is not difficult for me. War is stupid and I conclude with a quote from Herodotus:

No one is so senseless as to choose of his own will war rather than peace, since in peace the sons bury their fathers, but in war the fathers bury their sons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 02, 2023, 16:55
BTW, Russia hasn't hit us, we have the situation here very well under control.
::) ::) ::) :'( :'( :'(

This man still hasn’t realized that he sleeps peacefully and lives only because Ukraine protects him and holds back the crowd of Russian zombies.
An understanding of reality will certainly come to him, but when it is too late.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 03, 2023, 13:16
History proves it: russia is birthplace of Jewish pogrom.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3781257-history-proves-it-russia-is-birthplace-of-jewish-pogrom.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3781257-history-proves-it-russia-is-birthplace-of-jewish-pogrom.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on November 03, 2023, 14:32
History proves it: russia is birthplace of Jewish pogrom.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3781257-history-proves-it-russia-is-birthplace-of-jewish-pogrom.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3781257-history-proves-it-russia-is-birthplace-of-jewish-pogrom.html)

Nah... Massacres of Jews go all the way back to the Mongol invasions (and beyond), before russia even existed, when the Catholic Church thought that they were one of the lost Jewish tribes mentioned in the Bible, returning to seek revenge... and that triggered the repression and the killing of many European Jews...
Even the Black Death plague was blamed on Jews, accused that they were poisoning the wells... and more killings of European Jews followed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on November 03, 2023, 14:43



I don't know, probably 2 wars with global impact is a bit too much input for society.

What worries me extremely is the danger from within from extremists. In GERMANY, there is increasing aggression against Jews, houses are smeared with Jewish stars. Jewish institutions were pelted with Molotov cocktails and must now be protected. History is forgotten.

The same situation in other European countries and the USA.

It's worth taking a look here:

https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites (https://twitter.com/StopAntisemites)

In the USA, several doctors with Arabic roots have already been dismissed from their jobs because of disgusting anti-Semitic postings on social networks. Among them was a well-known vascular surgeon from Hollywood. At elite universities, Jewish students are openly threatened by fellow students. Frighteningly, it is not just an uneducated mob that is calling for an uprising here. Hatred of Jews seems to be very deeply rooted.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I subscribe to Scott Galloway's podcasts. (Professor of Marketing at NYU Stern School of Business, and one of CNN's experts for commentary). He released these stats in this morning's email:

(https://www.profgalloway.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/1-1200x612.png)

"This is not unique to the Hamas attack. The older you are, the more likely you are to be pro-Israel: In March 2022, 69% of Americans over 65 had a favorable view of Israel, while just 41% of those under 29 did. Worries about increasing antisemitism in the U.S. are similarly correlated: 85% of seniors say it’s growing; 52% of Gen Zers say it’s not."



This is just in America but possibly reflected around the world. It seems to be a generational thing, with Gen Z's of course are possibly more influenced by social media:

Lies on Social Media Inflame Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Misinformation has flourished on Twitter, TikTok, Facebook and other social media about the violence between Israelis and Palestinians.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/technology/israel-palestine-misinformation-lies-social-media.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/technology/israel-palestine-misinformation-lies-social-media.html)



Scott Galloway's blog:

https://www.profgalloway.com/short-form-war/ (https://www.profgalloway.com/short-form-war/)

The CCP has control over the most powerful, yet elegant, weapon in the history of propaganda, and the default position is they (i.e., the CCP) are not using it? I have stated this view before. China cannot beat us kinetically or economically, but it can beat us by tearing us apart from the inside. TikTok, in my view, has the potential effect of several carrier strike forces. A 21st century Trojan Horse that also generates $100 billion in annual revenue. I was at the White House this week for an AI Summit. Government officials are not allowed to be on TikTok for security reasons. This comes at a cost, as I believe they’d be more alarmed at the skew of information.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 03, 2023, 17:04
History proves it: russia is birthplace of Jewish pogrom.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3781257-history-proves-it-russia-is-birthplace-of-jewish-pogrom.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3781257-history-proves-it-russia-is-birthplace-of-jewish-pogrom.html)

Nah... Massacres of Jews go all the way back to the Mongol invasions (and beyond), before russia even existed, when the Catholic Church thought that they were one of the lost Jewish tribes mentioned in the Bible, returning to seek revenge... and that triggered the repression and the killing of many European Jews...
Even the Black Death plague was blamed on Jews, accused that they were poisoning the wells... and more killings of European Jews followed.

Nobody argues with this. The article contains a reference to Spain in the 15th century. But, if in other countries Jewish pogroms are not a national policy, then in the Russian Empire these pogroms have always been a national policy and at the present time too.
I recommend reading this article.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 03, 2023, 17:06
Annie2022, what's there in Australia? Are there many anti-Simites? Are Jews persecuted?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 03, 2023, 17:09
Yes, it’s difficult for Jews now, the entire Arab world and all the useful idiots are against them. Jews are in a situation similar to Ukraine. Of course, Israel has many planes, missiles, tanks and much more that Ukraine does not have.
It is a pity that Israel does not want to help Ukraine with weapons; Ukrainians could also help Israel.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 03, 2023, 17:40
.....
It is a pity that Israel does not want to help Ukraine with weapons; ....

I know that you don't particularly value my opinion, especially as I live in the country of Russian Agent Merkel.

Nevertheless, a completely absurd thought probably occurs to me:

Couldn't it be that Israel needs its weapons itself for some reason?

But also some praise at this point:

I don't know anyone with such enthusiastic perseverance in defending his largely false statements for around 70 pages, without perhaps even once admitting a tiny mistake despite obvious evidence to the contrary.
Respect  8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 03, 2023, 17:48

Scott Galloway's blog:

https://www.profgalloway.com/short-form-war/ (https://www.profgalloway.com/short-form-war/)


Thanks for the link Annie, find his views worth reading.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on November 03, 2023, 17:48
History proves it: russia is birthplace of Jewish pogrom.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3781257-history-proves-it-russia-is-birthplace-of-jewish-pogrom.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3781257-history-proves-it-russia-is-birthplace-of-jewish-pogrom.html)

Nah... Massacres of Jews go all the way back to the Mongol invasions (and beyond), before russia even existed, when the Catholic Church thought that they were one of the lost Jewish tribes mentioned in the Bible, returning to seek revenge... and that triggered the repression and the killing of many European Jews...
Even the Black Death plague was blamed on Jews, accused that they were poisoning the wells... and more killings of European Jews followed.

Nobody argues with this. The article contains a reference to Spain in the 15th century. But, if in other countries Jewish pogroms are not a national policy, then in the Russian Empire these pogroms have always been a national policy and at the present time too.
I recommend reading this article.

See the map with jews pogroms in Germany (as an example), again even before russia existed:

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 03, 2023, 18:24
See the map with jews pogroms in Germany (as an example), again even before russia existed:
We are also talking about modern russia. Nobody argues with the facts of history that you write about. But we live in the 21st century. An article about russia and its national policy directed against Jews.
Do you know any other modern country that is currently pursuing a national policy against Jews?
What are you trying to argue with? Have you read the article?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 03, 2023, 18:28
.....
It is a pity that Israel does not want to help Ukraine with weapons; ....

I know that you don't particularly value my opinion, especially as I live in the country of Russian Agent Merkel.

Nevertheless, a completely absurd thought probably occurs to me:

Couldn't it be that Israel needs its weapons itself for some reason?

But also some praise at this point:

I don't know anyone with such enthusiastic perseverance in defending his largely false statements for around 70 pages, without perhaps even once admitting a tiny mistake despite obvious evidence to the contrary.
Respect  8)
1. I'm not a Na.zi.
2. Yes, Israel needs weapons now, but Ukraine has been fighting Russian terrorists since 2014.
Not only Hamas is against Israel, but also Iran, russia, China and other Arab countries.
3. You are accusing me of making false statements. You make accusations without evidence.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on November 03, 2023, 18:44
Have you read the article?

Have you?
Your article talks about the russian empire, under Ivan the Terrible, under Catherine the Great, among others, about the soviet empire, not only about modern russia...
Anti-semitism and pogroms were all over in the last millennia... and in modern times, not only in the USSR (many in soviet Ukraine) but also in Romania, Poland, Turkey, Germany...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 03, 2023, 18:53
in Romania, Poland, Turkey, Germany...
Are these countries now pursuing a national policy against Jews?

Yes, you can add Iran to russia.
An article about russia, about the history of national policy against Jews in russia, about the modern policy of Russians against Jews. This article is not about anti-Semitism around the world. You can write an article about this in other countries.
Is your goal to protect Russian Na.zis?
I don't see a point of contention for myself.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on November 03, 2023, 18:57
in Romania, Poland, Turkey, Germany...
Are these countries now pursuing a national policy against Jews?

Yes, you can add Iran to russia.
An article about russia, about the history of national policy against Jews in russia, about the modern policy of Russians against Jews. This article is not about anti-Semitism around the world. You can write an article about this in other countries.
Is your goal to protect Russian Na.zis?
I don't see a point of contention for myself.

No.
I am disputing the article's claim that russia is the birthplace of Jewish massacres. This is not true.

Yes, russia is the root of evil today, while other countries learned from history.
But russia is not where anti-Semitic crimes began (i.e. birthplace).

You must learn to be objective if you want credibility. You have enough facts to declare russia a terrorist state.
You don't have to invent "alternative facts".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 04, 2023, 02:53
in Romania, Poland, Turkey, Germany...
Are these countries now pursuing a national policy against Jews?

Yes, you can add Iran to russia.
An article about russia, about the history of national policy against Jews in russia, about the modern policy of Russians against Jews. This article is not about anti-Semitism around the world. You can write an article about this in other countries.
Is your goal to protect Russian Na.zis?
I don't see a point of contention for myself.

No.
I am disputing the article's claim that russia is the birthplace of Jewish massacres. This is not true.

Yes, russia is the root of evil today, while other countries learned from history.
But russia is not where anti-Semitic crimes began (i.e. birthplace).

You must learn to be objective if you want credibility. You have enough facts to declare russia a terrorist state.
You don't have to invent "alternative facts".
:)
I understand. You didn't like the title of the article. Let me give you a different name for this article.
"Russia's national anti-Semitic policy against Jews. History and modernity."
Does this title suit you?

 ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 04, 2023, 02:55
I agree, in Ukraine many articles and TV programs are often called phrases that do not quite correctly reflect the essence of the information presented. This is probably done to attract more readers and viewers.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on November 04, 2023, 03:39

Scott Galloway's blog:

https://www.profgalloway.com/short-form-war/ (https://www.profgalloway.com/short-form-war/)


Thanks for the link Annie, find his views worth reading.

Thanks Ralf. I agree. I enjoy his commentaries on CNN as well, as they are based on stats and facts and not just conjecture.

Some of his commentaries are revealing and provocative. Here's one I found quickly.

https://youtu.be/3EsJhjBm6g8 (https://youtu.be/3EsJhjBm6g8)



Here's a really interesting one with Fareed about the middle east (keeping in my mind that this was recorded a month ago):

https://youtu.be/-h1XD7fQSfg (https://youtu.be/-h1XD7fQSfg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 04, 2023, 06:51

Scott Galloway's blog:

https://www.profgalloway.com/short-form-war/ (https://www.profgalloway.com/short-form-war/)


Thanks for the link Annie, find his views worth reading.

Thanks Ralf. I agree. I enjoy his commentaries on CNN as well, as they are based on stats and facts and not just conjecture.

Some of his commentaries are revealing and provocative. Here's one I found quickly.

https://youtu.be/3EsJhjBm6g8 (https://youtu.be/3EsJhjBm6g8)



Here's a really interesting one with Fareed about the middle east (keeping in my mind that this was recorded a month ago):

https://youtu.be/-h1XD7fQSfg (https://youtu.be/-h1XD7fQSfg)

Thanks again Annie. The first video was honestly quite difficult to understand for a non-native speaker of the subject matter  ;)

The second video was the best analysis I've seen of the conflict and recent politics so far. Without any ideology or finger-pointing.

I'm going to stick with Scott Galloway too, I like the format.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 04, 2023, 14:26
Blatant lies and shifting blame: 10 principles of military propaganda in the russian Federation.
https://t.me/Crimeanwind/47206
In 2001, Belgian historian of Italian origin Anne Morelli formulated 10 basic principles of war propaganda. Oddly enough, they are all inherent in modern russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 05, 2023, 02:52
Avdiivka. Ukraine.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces are liquidating Russian tanks.  ;D ;D ;D

https://twitter.com/PulseOfUkraine/status/1720991470805471727 (https://twitter.com/PulseOfUkraine/status/1720991470805471727)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 05, 2023, 03:43
Avdiivka. Ukraine.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces are liquidating Russian tanks.  ;D ;D ;D

https://twitter.com/PulseOfUkraine/status/1720991470805471727 (https://twitter.com/PulseOfUkraine/status/1720991470805471727)

Fried a lot of pigs, bravo!
Glory to Ukraine!
Glory to the fearless warriors of Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 05, 2023, 11:28
 8) 8) 8)

“Everything will evaporate in a ball of fire”: the media simulated a nuclear strike on Moscow.

The United States is planning to develop a new nuclear bomb, the B61-13, which will be more powerful than the one dropped on Hiroshima. If it struck the capital of the Russian Federation, hundreds of thousands of people could die in an instant.

The new nuclear bomb, which is planned to be created in the United States, will be able to destroy more than 300 thousand Russians in Moscow.

https://www.newsweek.com/updated-us-nuclear-bomb-could-reach-new-targets-1840663 (https://www.newsweek.com/updated-us-nuclear-bomb-could-reach-new-targets-1840663)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 05, 2023, 12:20
8) 8) 8)

“Everything will evaporate in a ball of fire”: the media simulated a nuclear strike on Moscow.

The United States is planning to develop a new nuclear bomb, the B61-13, which will be more powerful than the one dropped on Hiroshima. If it struck the capital of the Russian Federation, hundreds of thousands of people could die in an instant.

The new nuclear bomb, which is planned to be created in the United States, will be able to destroy more than 300 thousand Russians in Moscow.

https://www.newsweek.com/updated-us-nuclear-bomb-could-reach-new-targets-1840663 (https://www.newsweek.com/updated-us-nuclear-bomb-could-reach-new-targets-1840663)

Sorry, but your joy about a possible nuclear war is just as sick as the Russian propaganda. I think you've just crossed some red lines here.








Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 05, 2023, 13:05
possible nuclear war
1. You're wrong.
2. Germans, wake up, the third world war has been going on for 10 years. The Russians are killing hundreds of thousands of people. Nuclear war, hmm. These are all fairy tales from KGB agent Merkel. Nuclear weapons are weapons that kill just as Russian artillery and Russian bombs kill people.
If it is important to you how you personally will be killed, nuclear or non-nuclear weapons, then you better discuss this with your psychologist.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 05, 2023, 13:42
Nuclear weapons are weapons that kill just as Russian artillery and Russian bombs kill people.


Your postings now really leave me speechless.

Have you ever heard for example of stochastic DNA radiation damage?

You can still see pictures like this decades later after nuclear attack:

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 05, 2023, 15:43
Nuclear weapons are weapons that kill just as russian artillery and russian bombs kill people.


Your postings now really leave me speechless.

Have you ever heard for example of stochastic DNA radiation damage?

You can still see pictures like this decades later after nuclear attack:

What Ralf, scary, yes!
But Margarita Simonyan is not afraid, and Dima Medvedev is not afraid. At all! 80% of russians shout at the top of their lungs: “We can repeat it!”, meaning the capture of Berlin, or the entry of moscow Cossacks into Paris. Do you know why cafes in Paris are called "Bistros"?
Have you seen the video where the russians install mock-up missiles on the roof and sign them: “To Berlin!” and drive around in these cars around Orc cities and shout into a megaphone: “Beat Geyropa!” And Schröder is not afraid either, and Merkel doesn’t give a *.
Why are you so scared?
It’s also not scary for Minister Germans, who so zealously cares about russian culture.
The IAEA is not afraid either, the UN is not afraid either, and the Olympic Committee is not afraid at all. Money, big money, relieves fear very well! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 05, 2023, 16:18
Nuclear weapons are weapons that kill just as russian artillery and russian bombs kill people.


Your postings now really leave me speechless.

Have you ever heard for example of stochastic DNA radiation damage?

You can still see pictures like this decades later after nuclear attack:

What Ralf, scary, yes!
But Margarita Simonyan is not afraid, and Dima Medvedev is not afraid. At all! 80% of russians shout at the top of their lungs: “We can repeat it!”, meaning the capture of Berlin, or the entry of moscow Cossacks into Paris. Do you know why cafes in Paris are called "Bistros"?
Have you seen the video where the russians install mock-up missiles on the roof and sign them: “To Berlin!” and drive around in these cars around Orc cities and shout into a megaphone: “Beat Geyropa!” And Schröder is not afraid either, and Merkel doesn’t give a *.
Why are you so scared?
It’s also not scary for Minister Germans, who so zealously cares about russian culture.
The IAEA is not afraid either, the UN is not afraid either, and the Olympic Committee is not afraid at all. Money, big money, relieves fear very well! ;D ;D ;D


You've taken my post completely out of context.
 
Stoker equated nuclear with conventional weapons.
 
This clueless trivialization of nuclear weapons has indeed shocked me. This guy obviously has zero idea about radioactive radiation and is obviously only equating the impact power here.
That was the point.

 
Never mind. No, for myself, I'm not scared at all.

The only ones who are scared are you and that stoker.

What I feel a little sorry for in this context is that you want to stand up for ukraine here.
Your postings are absolutely counterproductive in this respect.

Have a nice discussion among yourselves.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 05, 2023, 17:03
Stoker equated nuclear with conventional weapons.
For the people whom the Russians kill, it makes no difference whether they are killed within one year or whether they will be killed within a few days. Nuclear weapons are a quick-fix weapon. If the United States had not used nuclear weapons in Japan, the number of people killed by conventional weapons would have been much higher. You don't know history, you are exposed to Russian propaganda.
When there is a war, it is better to use weapons that eliminate enemies as quickly as possible.

I didn’t write that the United States would bomb Moscow, I wrote that the United States showed Russian terrorists (and there are 90% of them in russia) what could happen to them. This is a response to constant threats from the Russians, as well as terrorist attacks on nuclear power plants in Ukraine.
You clearly have some kind of claim against me. I would also like to sit in well-fed Germany and, over a glass of beer, talk about the fate of the Ukrainians who are killed daily by the Russians.

Military experts have already compared the number of destroyed Ukrainian cities and people killed in them (from weapons that you Germans approve of) with the effect of the use of nuclear weapons. So the result was identical, and nuclear weapons are no worse than conventional weapons. And there is no need to provide photos here, it’s better to come to Ukraine to the line of fire and where the nuclear power plants are located at which the Russians are shooting and which they are mining with mines.
Ukraine can also show you photos of people killed, shot, after being tortured by Russians, etc.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on November 05, 2023, 20:14
8) 8) 8)

“Everything will evaporate in a ball of fire”: the media simulated a nuclear strike on Moscow.

The United States is planning to develop a new nuclear bomb, the B61-13, which will be more powerful than the one dropped on Hiroshima. If it struck the capital of the Russian Federation, hundreds of thousands of people could die in an instant.

The new nuclear bomb, which is planned to be created in the United States, will be able to destroy more than 300 thousand Russians in Moscow.

https://www.newsweek.com/updated-us-nuclear-bomb-could-reach-new-targets-1840663 (https://www.newsweek.com/updated-us-nuclear-bomb-could-reach-new-targets-1840663)

There have been nuclear weapons much more powerful than the one dropped on Hiroshima for decades.

This new bomb is not designed to destroy cities or to kill as many people as possible but to penetrate the earth before it explodes in order to take out buried targets, like underground bunkers. When such a target is located in a city like Moscow, it will probably still kill a lot of people, but that is not the primary intention.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 06, 2023, 03:28
Yes, this is a very humane bomb.  ;D
The main target will be putin and all the main Russian Na.zis who will hide under the earth.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 06, 2023, 13:32
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-05/putin-s-move-to-secure-libya-bases-is-new-regional-worry-for-us (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-05/putin-s-move-to-secure-libya-bases-is-new-regional-worry-for-us)

russia is moving to expand its military presence in eastern Libya, a plan that could lead to a naval base, giving it a significant foothold on Europe’s southern doorstep.

The escalation of Russian activity in Libya represents a fresh challenge to the US and its European allies.

The threat is being taken “very seriously” by the US administration, said Jonathan Winer, a former US special envoy to Libya. “Keeping russia out of the Mediterranean has been a key strategic objective — if russia gets ports there, that gives it the ability to spy on all of the European Union.”

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 07, 2023, 16:23
 8)

EU Is Weighing Fresh Sanctions on $5.3 Billion in Russian Trade
12th sanctions package would hit both imports and exports
Measures also target sanctions evasion through third countries

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-31/eu-is-weighing-fresh-sanctions-on-5-3-billion-in-russian-trade (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-31/eu-is-weighing-fresh-sanctions-on-5-3-billion-in-russian-trade)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 09, 2023, 12:57
https://t.me/gruz_200_rus/8330 (https://t.me/gruz_200_rus/8330)

Elimination of a Russian terrorist with a grenade dropped from a Ukrainian Armed Forces drone.

 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 09, 2023, 14:18
(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2023_11/thumb_files/630_360_1699543927-538.jpg)

"Avdiivka. Active fighting has been going on for a month now. Hundreds of burnt out armored vehicles and thousands of corpses of Russian occupants are all the enemy has achieved. And we are still standing. And we will continue to stand. Because Avdiivka is not just a territory on the map, but a part of Ukraine, a part of the soul of Ukrainians and Ukrainian Donbas,"

"We will take revenge for every dead, for every child killed and stolen by Russians, for every raped woman. We will fight for Bucha, for Borodyanka, for Chernihiv, Kharkiv, Kramatorsk, for the destroyed Marinka, Popasna, Bakhmut and Avdiivka,"

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3784854-fighting-for-avdiivka-lasts-for-month-enemy-has-only-received-thousands-of-dead-tarnavsky.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3784854-fighting-for-avdiivka-lasts-for-month-enemy-has-only-received-thousands-of-dead-tarnavsky.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 09, 2023, 14:43
The AWO ballet was founded in 1980 by Liese Henz and Erika Schmaltz. In the beginning, only modest circle and seated dances were performed. Over time, the demands became greater and the song by Udo Jürgens "Mit 66 Jahren" was our first stage show dance, i.e. we no longer danced in a circle, but facing forwards. Our outfits consisted of black trousers, a white blouse and a funny little hat on our heads. I confess, it took us 2 years until this dance was "stage-ready". After the performances in front of an audience went down very well, we decided to sew ourselves costumes. Our 2nd dance was "The Entry of the Gladiators" - a gymnastics routine from the last century. Over time, we became braver and worked our way through Margot Werner's song "So ein Mann..."

We celebrated our 40th anniversary in 2020 with ever new dances, shows, funny fashion shows, sketches, songs and playback shows. We perform a lot in retirement homes, where we are always eagerly awaited, because our program with old hits is always one of the highlights there. But you can also find us at street parties, public events for senior citizens, milestone birthdays, class reunions or community festivals. This means we have around 40 performances a year. The ladies are aged between 60 and 82.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 10, 2023, 10:34
President Vladimir Zelenskyy said that the UN for the first time in history denied russia membership in the International Court.  ;D ;D ;D

The President noted that the UN has finally begun to cleanse itself of the destructive influence of the russian federation.

For the first time in UN history, its member states denied russia the right to administer justice on their behalf in the International Court of Justice. The world sees who destroys international law instead of protecting it.

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1722703576676336073 (https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1722703576676336073)


Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the russian federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 10, 2023, 10:37
https://t.me/Voyna18/5368 (https://t.me/Voyna18/5368)

Hunting and eliminating Russian terrorists in Ukraine.
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 10, 2023, 10:57
 8) 8) 8)
Overnight Friday, the Ukrainian strikes hit two Russian high-speed landing craft in the temporarily occupied Crimea.

https://youtu.be/S5flaPMDLXw (https://youtu.be/S5flaPMDLXw)

The ships were carrying a crew and loaded armored equipment, including Armored personnel carrier (APC-82).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 11, 2023, 12:15
A Russian Na.zi, a KGB lieutenant colonel, was eliminated on the territory of the Russian Empire.
 8) 8) 8)

A lieutenant colonel of the Federal Security Service was liquidated in Russia's Bryansk Oblast. This was done by the fighters of the Russian Volunteer Corps (RDK), which is opposed to the regime of the Russian Federation, during the attack on the border department of the FSB.

https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/rdk-atakoval-fsb-v-bryanskoy-oblasti-i-likvidiroval-podpolkovnika-istochnik (https://news.liga.net/en/politics/news/rdk-atakoval-fsb-v-bryanskoy-oblasti-i-likvidiroval-podpolkovnika-istochnik)

Video of a car being shot on a highway.
https://t.me/voynareal/76806 (https://t.me/voynareal/76806)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 11, 2023, 15:11
 ;D ;D ;D

Avdiivka, Ukraine.
Beautiful epic video of the liquidation of Russian tanks and Russian terrorists. Video can be uploaded to stock agencies. Maximum repost!

https://www.facebook.com/klavdiy2/videos/298465556351085 (https://www.facebook.com/klavdiy2/videos/298465556351085)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 13, 2023, 04:54
A good video about the liquidation of Russian orcs in Ukraine.  ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)

Terrifying Moment Ukrainian Forces Destroy Russian Tank Convoy in Avdiivka

The Russians have suffered serious losses: at least 36 Russian tanks and armoured vehicles were destroyed in the week and according to the Kyiv Post, that figure has risen to 102 tanks and 150 armoured vehicles lost.

https://youtu.be/aAUU032MJbQ (https://youtu.be/aAUU032MJbQ)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 13, 2023, 11:10
A good video about the liquidation of Russian orcs in Ukraine.  ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)

Terrifying Moment Ukrainian Forces Destroy Russian Tank Convoy in Avdiivka

The Russians have suffered serious losses: at least 36 Russian tanks and armoured vehicles were destroyed in the week and according to the Kyiv Post, that figure has risen to 102 tanks and 150 armoured vehicles lost.

https://youtu.be/aAUU032MJbQ (https://youtu.be/aAUU032MJbQ)

The most magnificent fireworks display I have ever seen in my life!
Glory to the Armed Forces of Ukraine!
Shame on the marauding army of prisoners. Dishonor, dishonor, dishonor...
May you all be damned forever, burn in hell!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 13, 2023, 11:19
Masterpiece! Masterwork!
https://youtu.be/Ib87_RfQmQs?si=xQKufWtYMk0c5Fm-
Thanks to the stupid orcs who accept Ukrainians! Most of them are converted and deeply secret Ukrainian agents  ;D :D ;D :D :P
(Видео с английскими титрами)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: wordplanet on November 13, 2023, 11:33
@stoke2014 With all your pages of concern for your country and your misguided attacks on President Biden as a "coward," I'm curious, what are you doing to help your country's war efforts?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 13, 2023, 13:23
President Biden as a "coward,"
And who is he if not a coward?
 ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: wordplanet on November 13, 2023, 16:19
President Biden as a "coward,"
And who is he if not a coward?
 ::)

The man who has helped rally the world to aid your country.
Now, answer my question, what are you doing for the land you love?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 13, 2023, 16:49
President Biden as a "coward,"
And who is he if not a coward?
 ::)

The man who has helped rally the world to aid your country.
Now, answer my question, what are you doing for the land you love?
1. Is this topic about me? Do not ask personal questions to forum participants.
2. Biden did everything to ensure that the Russian orcs started a war against Ukraine. And he is doing everything possible to ensure that this war drags on and as many Ukrainians as possible die. And before Biden, Obama was the US President, who allowed the Russians to occupy Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 13, 2023, 18:32
Inglourious basterds, in the truest sense of the word! They thought that war was a computer game. Stupid, uneducated goofs!
https://youtu.be/zBXj1dp46PQ?si=a7JSB4VGAHE1rK2_
Video with English subtitles
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 14, 2023, 03:25
Inglourious basterds, in the truest sense of the word! They thought that war was a computer game. Stupid, uneducated goofs!
https://youtu.be/zBXj1dp46PQ?si=a7JSB4VGAHE1rK2_
Video with English subtitles
+100
These are Russian orcs. There are 95% of these in russia.
I always write that Ukraine is not at war with putin, Ukraine is at war with the Russian people (orcs and zombies).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 14, 2023, 09:06
Tanks, vehicles, surveillance radars: Germany sends new military aid package to Ukraine.

Germany has handed over another military aid package to Ukraine, including special-purpose vehicles and tanks, as well as ammunition, drones and surveillance radars.
The list of the military assistance provided by the Federal Republic of Germany to Ukraine has been updated on the website of the German Federal Government.
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514 (https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514)

In particular, Ukraine received 10 main battle tanks LEOPARD 1 A5 (in addition to 20 delivered before); 14 tracked all-terrain vehicles Bandvagn 206 (BV206) (46 delivered before); one mine clearing tank WISENT 1 (10 delivered before); and five All Terrain Tracked Vehicles Warthog Ambulances.

Additionally, the German side sent three border protection vehicles (in addition to 230 delivered before); four truck tractor trains 8x8 HX81 and four semi-trailers (75 and 70 accordingly delivered before); 16 trucks Zetros (200 delivered before); three vehicles (trucks, minibuses, all-terrain vehicles) (297 delivered before); and 13 trucks MAN TGS (12 delivered before).

Ukraine also received more than 1,000 rounds 155mm ammunition; 1.5 million rounds of ammunition for fire arms; 10 reconnaissance drones VECTOR; 14 ground surveillance radars GO12; and 10,000 safety glasses (from Bundeswehr and industry stocks).

A reminder that Germany is the second largest supplier of weapons for Ukraine.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-defense/3786685-tanks-vehicles-surveillance-radars-germany-sends-new-military-aid-package-to-ukraine.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-defense/3786685-tanks-vehicles-surveillance-radars-germany-sends-new-military-aid-package-to-ukraine.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 15, 2023, 09:11
 8)
German Foreign Minister dispels putin's hopes for reduction in support of Ukraine.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/d/6/d62e470-gettyimages-1776216070.avif)

Annalena Baerbock, Germany’s Foreign Minister, has commented on the possible hopes of Russian President Vladimir Putin to reduce EU support of Ukraine due to the escalation of the conflict in the Middle East.

"Putin is rejoicing too soon, given the dramatic situation around the world. Because we will not only continue our support of Ukraine – we will continue to expand and increase it," Baerbok emphasised.

She announced a significant increase in support for Ukraine.

"Our support will be significantly expanded, especially next year," said the German minister.

Baerbock did not provide any details on those plans.

Speaking about the coming weeks and months, she mentioned a winter defence shield, which includes supplying Ukraine with another Patriot air defence system and power generators.

According to Bild, the German budget for 2024 will include an additional 4 billion euros for military aid to Ukraine.

These intentions were indirectly confirmed on 13 November by Boris Pistorius, German Defence Minister, who announced a "strong signal" for Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 15, 2023, 09:13
Germany has TAURUS missiles with a range of 300-350 km, these missiles are very much needed by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 15, 2023, 09:14
So, progressive Germans understand well that most of the world's evil is in the Russian empire.
 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 15, 2023, 10:05
Russian literature has been sent to dump.  ;D ;D ;D

In Kyiv, a monument to the Russian poet Alexander Pushkin was dismantled.

(https://zn.ua/img/article/5700/56_main-v1700049163.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 16, 2023, 05:14
Biden meeting with Xi Jinping. Why meet with a dictator from the axis of world evil?
The US and EU should impose sanctions against China. No meetings are needed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 16, 2023, 10:41
Ukrainian kamikaze drone is hunting Russians.  ;D

https://t.me/military_u/17815 (https://t.me/military_u/17815)


The Russian B_M-27 Uragan was liquidated by the Ukrainian Armed Forces along with its crew..  ;D 8)

https://t.me/operativnoZSU_chat/174712 (https://t.me/operativnoZSU_chat/174712)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 16, 2023, 14:46
Ukrainian kamikaze drone is hunting Russians.  ;D

https://t.me/military_u/17815 (https://t.me/military_u/17815)


The Russian B_M-27 Uragan was liquidated by the Ukrainian Armed Forces along with its crew..  ;D 8)

https://t.me/operativnoZSU_chat/174712 (https://t.me/operativnoZSU_chat/174712)

Stupid pig-dogs! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 16, 2023, 14:52
Putin could face new war crime case as evidence suggests starvation of Ukraine was pre-planned
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/putin-grain-theft-ukraine-russia-latest-b2447644.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/putin-grain-theft-ukraine-russia-latest-b2447644.html)


540 crimes against journalists and media committed by by Russia in the year and 8 months of the big war
https://imi.org.ua/en/monitorings/540-crimes-against-journalists-and-media-committed-by-by-russia-in-the-year-and-8-months-of-the-big-i56314 (https://imi.org.ua/en/monitorings/540-crimes-against-journalists-and-media-committed-by-by-russia-in-the-year-and-8-months-of-the-big-i56314)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 17, 2023, 14:44
Horrifying Moments! How Ukrainian Trap Annihilates Russian Troops Near Bakhmut.

According to the Ukrainian military, the trap tactic involved retreating from their positions and then using drone-controlled artillery and mortar strikes to hammer Russian troops who tried to reoccupy the trenches. The video shows several Russian soldiers being hit by explosions and gunfire while others can be seen crawling away or lying motionless on the ground.

Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Malyar reported that Ukrainian forces had successfully taken control of elevated positions near Bakhmut. They are effectively restricting Russian troop movements by monitoring entrances, exits, and overall activities around the city, occasionally targeting them.

https://youtu.be/N05xm-oKOow (https://youtu.be/N05xm-oKOow)

 ;D 8) ;D 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 18, 2023, 02:57
https://youtu.be/5FvZmDQit2w (https://youtu.be/5FvZmDQit2w)

Russian orcs and their living conditions in “great” russia.
Subtitles can be set to be translated into English.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 18, 2023, 06:18
This is the Russian army. Drug addicts, alcoholics, orcs.

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12270?single (https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12270?single)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 19, 2023, 08:51
(https://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/UkraineAid-1.jpg)

There is very little military assistance to Ukraine from the EU. Probably the EU wants Russian tanks to drive on the roads of the European Union in the near future?...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on November 19, 2023, 10:27
There is very little military assistance to Ukraine from the EU. Probably the EU wants Russian tanks to drive on the roads of the European Union in the near future?...

That is because the EU is not a military organisation and it does not have an army. Therefore, EU institutions can offer primarily financial aid.

Military assistance must come from the member states of the EU directly and they do provide this assistance, most notably Germany with 18 Billion Dollar worth of military aid, according to the graph.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 19, 2023, 12:38
There is very little military assistance to Ukraine from the EU. Probably the EU wants Russian tanks to drive on the roads of the European Union in the near future?...

That is because the EU is not a military organisation and it does not have an army. Therefore, EU institutions can offer primarily financial aid.

Military assistance must come from the member states of the EU directly and they do provide this assistance, most notably Germany with 18 Billion Dollar worth of military aid, according to the graph.
Let's not talk about Germany. In this chart, Germany is highlighted separately.
Many EU countries are members of the NATO bloc, which means that these countries have their own army and have factories that produce weapons.
I have already written many times that Ukraine does not need money, Ukraine only needs weapons. More precisely, 80% of the assistance should be weapons, and only 20% money.
Okay, I agree that the EU is not a military bloc, but EU member countries, as can be seen from the graph, give very little weapons to Ukraine. You cannot pay off a war with money; only weapons can eliminate Russian terrorists.
The situation at the front in Ukraine is not very good. There are few weapons. The front rests only on the deaths of Ukrainians, respectively.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 20, 2023, 03:51
This is the Russian army. Drug addicts, alcoholics, orcs.

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12270?single (https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12270?single)

The most interesting thing, looking at this video, is that the orcs get great pleasure from the execution. They like it. This is their centuries-old tradition and this is their real, true culture. Many people harbor the illusion of humanizing this cattle - they say that only Putin is to blame for everything  :)  Fools!
When orcs find themselves in another society, they sincerely suffer. They really miss a stall, fresh manure and a biting whip.
Please don't take away their natural habitat!
Otherwise, you yourself will suffer from this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 20, 2023, 04:01
Attention! Attention! Attention!
The Americans are building a secret, deeply conspiratorial biological laboratory into Ukraine!
We ask everyone to please share this revealing video as much as possible. It has English subtitles.
https://youtu.be/EKrXD8504BM?si=gLZLQ5GnS0webUCS
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 20, 2023, 05:38
This is the Russian army. Drug addicts, alcoholics, orcs.

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12270?single (https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12270?single)

The most interesting thing, looking at this video, is that the orcs get great pleasure from the execution. They like it. This is their centuries-old tradition and this is their real, true culture. Many people harbor the illusion of humanizing this cattle - they say that only Putin is to blame for everything  :)  Fools!
When orcs find themselves in another society, they sincerely suffer. They really miss a stall, fresh manure and a biting whip.
Please don't take away their natural habitat!
Otherwise, you yourself will suffer from this.
+100
All Russian citizens must be deported from civilized countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 21, 2023, 08:01
russia. Russian orcs publicly beat people because of their skin color.

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12307?single (https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12307?single)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on November 21, 2023, 23:58
Russian orcs publicly beat people because of their skin color.
It is always better to listen to the people themselves, and not to “journalists” who fled their country, working for anti-Russian propaganda, and fabricating sensations from snippets of other people’s videos. Unsightly incidents occur in every country, but it is important to look at the situation as a whole. According to the latest census, representatives of 195 nations live in the Russian Federation. Without friendly relations between peoples in this multinational country, the existence of Russia would be impossible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbpQ2TCgENg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbpQ2TCgENg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on November 22, 2023, 07:54
195 nations live in the Russian Federation.
... colonized/occupied by russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on November 22, 2023, 08:39
... colonized/occupied by russia.
Perhaps you meant America, which was occupied by England, France, Portugal and Spain, by committing genocide against the indigenous population? And to which these countries brought slaves from Africa they colonized?
Before you say something bad about Russia, first look in your historical mirror.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on November 22, 2023, 08:59
... colonized/occupied by russia.
Perhaps you meant America, which was occupied by England, France, Portugal and Spain, by committing genocide against the indigenous population? And to which these countries brought slaves from Africa they colonized?
Before you say something bad about Russia, first look in your historical mirror.
No, I meant russia, the last colonial empire of modern days...
A colonial empire that continues to commit genocide, today, in front of your blinded eyes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on November 22, 2023, 09:12

No
The truth hurts, don't it?
Maybe you’d better think about the last neo-colonial empire, without which Europe (and not only) don’t even dare to squeak?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on November 22, 2023, 09:18

No
The truth hurts, don't it?

Not if you are desensitized by propaganda, to the extent that you don't see the evidence in front of your eyes: russia is the last colonial empire occupying/opressing many nations, and pushing for ever more, while casually committing genocide, today, under the rule of a ruthless dictator, whose crimes you accept.

So no, I am sure this ugly truth doesn't hurt you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on November 22, 2023, 09:57
crimes you accept.

Please don't make up things for me that I never said.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 22, 2023, 11:25
https://t.me/voynareal/77618 (https://t.me/voynareal/77618)

Zombie-Russians stand in the queue behind T-shirts with the inscription “Odessa is, of course, a Russian city” and “Crimea, which people decided to annex”.

P.S.
Annie wrote earlier that Russian youth are probably good, against putin, against murder, terrorism, the empire. In fact, Russian children are the same as their orc parents.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 22, 2023, 14:53
... colonized/occupied by russia.
Perhaps you meant America, which was occupied by England, France, Portugal and Spain, by committing genocide against the indigenous population? And to which these countries brought slaves from Africa they colonized?
Before you say something bad about Russia, first look in your historical mirror.

The reference to the earlier history of other states, especially with reference to the colonial era, in which Germany was also involved in other places, does not really make sense to me.

Now, today, in the 21st century (in times of globalization and brisk international trade), your country is waging a war that violates international law and is demonstrably committing war crimes. 
As a Russian, you can support this or distance yourself clearly from it. But pointing the finger at the dark stains of another state's past is a rather clumsy distraction from the issue.

And regardless of how the situation between Russia and Ukraine ultimately ends or is settled - Russia has already lost the war.

If anything, the alleged "threat" from NATO has now increased.

Russia has also undermined itself economically. In contrast to Europe's (very real) dependence on Russia for fossil fuels, Russia's economic dependence on Europe is enormous. In 2021, for example, Russia still exported 32% of its coal, 49% of its oil alone and no less than 74% of its gas to OECD Europe. If you add Japan, South Korea and European non-OECD countries that have joined the Western sanctions against Russia, the share is even greater. China will not be able to compensate for this in the long term.

In addition, Russia's invasion has accelerated the start of a decarbonizing energy transition that threatens to shake the Russian economy. For a petrostate like Russia, which generates 45% of its national budget from fossil fuels, this is likely to have a lasting negative impact.

Russia's demographic problems are probably well known.  Putin wanted to start reversing the country's long-standing population decline in 2022. In a morbid twist, the year rather marks the beginning of an irreversible decline. The combination of the coronavirus pandemic and an inverted demographic pyramid has already worsened Russia's prospects. The war has made them catastrophic.

Ukraine is now turning completely to the West (A decade ago, that would have been unimaginable), Russia is internationally isolated (apart from the rogue states, and the new friendship with Kim Jong has something desperately tragicomic about it. And nobody else wants Iran as a buddy.).

And as a personal note, as an actually open-minded, tolerant person and traveller, I no longer want to spend my vacation in an area where there are also Russians.

So your finger should not point at the history of other countries, but only and exclusively at your own government.

However, I am by no means of the opinion that an entire Russian nation has exclusively bad qualities. To be honest, however, I have to admit that I am finding fewer and fewer arguments and evidence for my point of view. You could start sometime.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on November 22, 2023, 22:58
So your finger should not point at the history of other countries, but only and exclusively at your own government.
And this comes from a man who himself cannot point a finger at his government, which knows, but is afraid to name the terrorist country that committed the terrorist attack on Nord Stream and deprived his country of cheap, environmentally friendly fuel.
As a Russian, you can support this or distance yourself clearly from it.
Regarding this issue, it doesn’t matter what nationality I am. I have lived and visited many countries. I have always said that I am against any war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 23, 2023, 03:55
entire Russian nation has exclusively bad qualities.
+100
I know that I’m taking your text out of context, but this is 100% correct to write.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 23, 2023, 06:05
https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12357 (https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12357)

What are Russians doing in Germany? They go to cemeteries and crap on Ukrainian graves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 23, 2023, 06:40
So your finger should not point at the history of other countries, but only and exclusively at your own government.
And this comes from a man who himself cannot point a finger at his government, which knows, but is afraid to name the terrorist country that committed the terrorist attack on Nord Stream and deprived his country of cheap, environmentally friendly fuel.
As a Russian, you can support this or distance yourself clearly from it.
Regarding this issue, it doesn’t matter what nationality I am. I have lived and visited many countries. I have always said that I am against any war.

Yes, the traces of the Nordstream attack lead to Ukraine. However, the principals are still unknown. Everything else is speculation at this stage.
As far as Ukraine is concerned, I take a very critical view myself.
As far as cheap energy is concerned, nobody in Germany wants to do business with Russia any more.

Of course, all Russians, including Putin, are against war. Let me remind you that only a special operation is taking place in Ukraine  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 23, 2023, 06:52
1. Ukraine would be very happy to blow up the Russian Nordstream in the Baltic Sea, just as it would blow up all Russian gas pipes.
2. But there is a problem: Ukraine cannot do this technically. A Russian ship was spotted there before the explosion. The Russians themselves blew up this gas pipe to create tension in the gas market and increase gas prices in the EU. Also, the Russians already knew that this Nordstream would not be allowed to operate.
90% is the work of Russians and 10% is the work of the USA. But knowing what a coward Biden is, this is definitely not the USA.

But Ukraine is not against if this diversion is recorded as an asset of Ukraine.  ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on November 23, 2023, 18:38

Of course, all Russians, including Putin, are against war. Let me remind you that only a special operation is taking place in Ukraine  ;)

Yes, this is exactly right.
No russian is pro-war, but a vast majority is pro-"special operation".  ::)

Even our colleague, zastavkin, who believes himself as anti-war, is pretty much pro-"special operation", based on how he is defending today's russian colonial imperialism through #whataboutism  :(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 24, 2023, 02:55

Of course, all Russians, including Putin, are against war. Let me remind you that only a special operation is taking place in Ukraine  ;)

Yes, this is exactly right.
No russian is pro-war, but a vast majority is pro-"special operation".  ::)

Even our colleague, zastavkin, who believes himself as anti-war, is pretty much pro-"special operation", based on how he is defending today's russian colonial imperialism through #whataboutism  :(
+100
Almost all Russians are fascists, Naz.is and Rashists.
All Russians, especially those who are Russian by nationality, are for the Russian empire. All Russians are happy with the results of their Tsar putin. Russian orcs and zombies like to occupy foreign territories - Crimea, Donbass, southern Ukraine, etc.
When a Russian opens his mouth, a stream of Russian propaganda immediately pours out.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 24, 2023, 10:33
Avdiivka, Ukraine.

https://youtu.be/G_8yuZhkiqg (https://youtu.be/G_8yuZhkiqg)

Subtitles can be set to be translated into English. The main language of the video is Ukrainian.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces are repelling the offensive of the Russian orcs. Advanced positions. There are many wounded among Ukrainians. The Ukrainian Armed Forces fighters do not have enough weapons and shells.
Citizens of EU countries, look at the reality of the 21st century. If Ukraine does not eliminate the army of Russian orcs, such horror will come to half of the EU countries (or all countries), including Germany.
Biden is a coward! Where is the aviation? Where are the tanks? Where are the missiles for at least 300 km?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: erik trikowich on November 25, 2023, 04:39
Today in Ukraine is the Day of Remembrance for the Victims of the Holodomor. At 16:00, citizens will be able to join the national minute of silence and the “Light a Candle” event.
In total, during the reign of the Stalin-Moscow criminal clique, there were 3 waves of artificially provoked famine - in 1921-1923, in 1932-1933 and in 1946-1947. В 1921-1923 годах от него скончались 3,5 млн моих братьев и сестер.
During the Holodomor of 1932-1933, more than 7 million Ukrainians died on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR and 3 million outside it - in the Kuban, North Caucasus, Lower Volga region and Kazakhstan. Among the victims were about 1.5 million children under the age of 10, according to the Ukrainian Institute of National Remembrance.
In 1946-1947, 1.5 million people died.
The famine also affected my family. My grandfather, an 18-year-old boy, was left an orphan and barely survived.
All people of good will, if you have even a drop of compassion, remember my innocently lost compatriots.
Thank you.

Russians, let every one of you die, with your Lenin, Stalin and already with the current Botox executioners!
* you to the seventh generation, cannibals!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 25, 2023, 12:27
Volodymyr Zelenskyy
"russia launched around 70 "Shahed" drones at Ukraine precisely on the eve of the Holodomor genocide commemoration day. Russia’s leadership appears to be proud of its ability to kill people.
 
Our warriors shot down the majority of the drones, but not all of them. We keep working to strengthen our air defense and unite the world in the fight against Russian terror. The terrorist state must be defeated and held accountable for its actions."

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1728312139910189161 (https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1728312139910189161)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 25, 2023, 13:43
I no longer want to spend my vacation in an area where there are also Russians.
Russians are a nation of terrorists. russia is a terrorist country. Better stop trading with russia, incl. and through other countries. Don't let Russians into your country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 26, 2023, 03:05
https://twitter.com/i/status/1728448391733018833 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1728448391733018833)

Greta Thunberg chants "Krossa Sionismen" (Crush Zionism) with the crowd at a pro-Palestinian rally in Stockholm on Thursday.

@GretaThunberg
 is openly (!) an antisemite, ISIS supporter that is officially no longer a climate activist.

____
Is this GretaThunberg working for the Russians?  :o >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 26, 2023, 10:09
 ;D ;D ;D

'You’ll die in this pit': Takeaways from secret recordings of Russian soldiers in Ukraine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2023/11/26/ukraine-war-russian-soldiers-intercepted-audio-takeaways/54739f64-8c21-11ee-a36e-fdb7be9bd43d_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2023/11/26/ukraine-war-russian-soldiers-intercepted-audio-takeaways/54739f64-8c21-11ee-a36e-fdb7be9bd43d_story.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 26, 2023, 17:03
Germany said it will continue supporting a Chinese state-backed development bank despite G7 partner Canada's decision to freeze ties due to Beijing's influence.

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backs-china-asia-infrastructure-investment-bank-despite-canada-concern-christian-lindner-he-lifeng/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-backs-china-asia-infrastructure-investment-bank-despite-canada-concern-christian-lindner-he-lifeng/)

 :-\

China is russia's main military ally.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 27, 2023, 06:59
Russian tank factory rocked by massive explosion.  ;D 8) ;D 8) ;D 8)
 
https://youtu.be/EYk7iDqQFVc (https://youtu.be/EYk7iDqQFVc)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 27, 2023, 07:46
Richard Barrons.

https://youtu.be/ySHrGOYiRb4 (https://youtu.be/ySHrGOYiRb4)

He says that EU countries are not protected from attacks by Russian orcs. The EU spends very little money on defense, 2/3 of the costs are US money, which will stop when Trump becomes president. If Ukraine does not eliminate the Russian orcs, the EU countries will be occupied by the Russians and destroyed.
On my own behalf, I will add that the EU’s weakness in military security is the result of the policy of the KGB agent Merkel.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 28, 2023, 06:34
US Speaker Mike Johnson said that aid to Ukraine is a priority and that Russian dictator putin cannot be allowed to "march through Europe"

https://telegra.ph/file/450e9238de9199018c009.mp4 (https://telegra.ph/file/450e9238de9199018c009.mp4)

___
The perspective of Russian tanks in EU cities is not very distant. Considering the meager military assistance that Ukraine receives.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on November 29, 2023, 06:37
https://t.me/operativnoZSU/125376 (https://t.me/operativnoZSU/125376)

russia. 21 century. There are no roads, no bridges. A Russian woman wades across a river to get to the nearest store.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 01, 2023, 07:39
Henry Kissinger died.
He was a supporter of the Russian occupiers and opposed the introduction of sanctions against russia.

There is information that over the past 50 years he has had a significant influence on weakening democracy in the world and supporting constant military conflicts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 01, 2023, 09:05
Avdiivka, Ukraine.
Liquidated Russian orcs. The video was filmed by Russian occupiers.  8) 8) 8)

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12514 (https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12514)


Glory to Ukraine!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 02, 2023, 06:46
Here is the best-kept secret about U.S. military aid to Ukraine: Most of the money is being spent here in the United States. That’s right: Funds that lawmakers approve to arm Ukraine are not going directly to Ukraine but are being used stateside to build new weapons or to replace weapons sent to Kyiv from U.S. stockpiles. Of the $68 billion in military and related assistance Congress has approved since Russia invaded Ukraine, almost 90 percent is going to Americans, one analysis found.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/29/ukraine-military-aid-american-economy-boost/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/29/ukraine-military-aid-american-economy-boost/)

.......

As I have pointed out, it is in the United States’ vital interests to arm Ukraine in its fight to defeat Russian aggression. Our support for Ukraine is decimating the Russian military threat to NATO, restoring deterrence with China, dissuading other nuclear powers from launching wars of aggression and improving American military preparedness for other adversaries. The “America First” case for helping Ukraine is clear.

But if those arguments are not persuasive, then this should be: Our military aid to Ukraine is revitalizing manufacturing communities across the United States, creating good jobs here at home and restoring the United States’ capacity to produce weapons for our national defense. Helping Ukraine is the right thing to do for U.S. national security. It is also the right thing to do for American workers.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 02, 2023, 06:52
5 ways Ukraine fought and saved its capital from Russian invaders.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/24/kyiv-battle-ukraine-defense/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/24/kyiv-battle-ukraine-defense/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 02, 2023, 11:06
Ukrainian drone kills Russian tank.  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.facebook.com/ssternenko/videos/643202564419845 (https://www.facebook.com/ssternenko/videos/643202564419845)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 03, 2023, 04:21
War in Europe.
Bakhmut, Ukraine.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces knocked out the Russian orcs from their positions and are trying to gain a foothold.
Russian terrorists are firing at Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers (Russians also use drones). The video shows the moment of change (rotation) of soldiers. We see a problem, the evacuation vehicle (M113 armored personnel carrier) breaks down and the soldiers are forced to leave on their own (without armor protection, on foot). Many wounded.

https://youtu.be/fgcdQmCbz-I (https://youtu.be/fgcdQmCbz-I)


I'll express my opinion. We are seeing the results of Biden's cowardly policies. The United States does not provide Ukraine with aviation and does not allow other countries to provide it. Ukrainians have to fight Russian orcs without air support. This is the 21st century. This is such gratitude to Ukraine for protecting EU countries from Russian occupation.
I recommend everyone to watch this video.


PS. The Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers completed the assigned task. The Russians were knocked out of their positions, the Ukrainian Armed Forces took and held these positions.

PS2. I’m wondering what they would do to Biden if he came to visit the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Let him show how to attack Russian orcs without aircraft.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 04, 2023, 09:55
Ukraine. The Ukrainian Armed Forces are liquidating the Russians. Good video.  8)

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12554 (https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12554)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 04, 2023, 19:16
Yes, this is what happened.... among other things.
Again this is your way of conveniently selecting events that support your opinion, while neglecting what's not. In other words, propaganda.


So again anything that doesn't fit into your brainwashed state of mind is propaganda  :D

Again you ran on the other side of the history trying to mask the most relevant historical facts about the matter.


I insist, according to the facts I wrote ( and nobody here choose to school me ) and I gave yall enough time to correct me...

So under "INTERNATIONAL LAW" Arabs have gained sole right to control the peninsula and more, and yet the area is being unlawfully controlled by terrorist groups supported and financed. this time not by the west cause even EU puppet states don't support that s.hit, but anymore but an US project.

Also Zionism was officially declared by UN  Resolution 3379 as a form of racial discrimination. One more time by the UN. So why is the biggest democracy in the world supporting the ones that the WORLD considers racists and their NA.ZI terrorist army targeting children and hospitals ?








     
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 04, 2023, 19:28
195 nations live in the Russian Federation.
... colonized/occupied by russia.

You guys are stuck at some who is gonna kill more innocent people competition.

With what you did with natives,  you are still way in front of them but there is no better contender.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 05, 2023, 04:28
The EU is sitting on a powder keg. Trade with Russians through third countries or directly is support for the Russian army. Allowing Russians to live and work in EU countries is also funding for russia and the creation of a Russian resource in the EU that engages in propaganda and is ready to carry out putin orders at any time.

As always, I will also write that Russian stockers should be banned from all stock agencies and payment systems.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 05, 2023, 05:30
The media is now disseminating information about the suspension and reduction of military assistance to Ukraine. This is a bad trend. If Ukraine doesn't have weapons, who will eliminate the Russians? The Russian army of orcs will be restored and the occupation of the EU will become real.
As I always write, Biden is a coward.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on December 05, 2023, 06:07
As always, I will also write that Russian stockers should be banned from all stock agencies and payment systems.
Another Na.zi bullsh.it?
This is the best way to force thousands of artists to lose their creative work and go to factories to make shells and weapons for war. Will this make the World more peaceful and help Ukraine?
164 citizens of Ukraine work with the Russian stock agency Lori. And none of them will ever be banned based on their nationality.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 05, 2023, 06:30


Again you ran on the other side of the history trying to mask the most relevant historical facts about the matter.


I insist, according to the facts I wrote ( and nobody here choose to school me ) and I gave yall enough time to correct me...

So under "INTERNATIONAL LAW" Arabs have gained sole right to control the peninsula and more, and yet the area is being unlawfully controlled by terrorist groups supported and financed. this time not by the west cause even EU puppet states don't support that s.hit, but anymore but an US project.

Also Zionism was officially declared by UN  Resolution 3379 as a form of racial discrimination. One more time by the UN. So why is the biggest democracy in the world supporting the ones that the WORLD considers racists and their NA.ZI terrorist army targeting children and hospitals ?
     

Today's events are not about the history of the last centuries, but about the events of October 7, 2023.
Here is a good summary of the events. I saw many of the videos mentioned, most of which have since been removed, myself on the weekend in question.

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1731761693737308427
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 05, 2023, 06:38
https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1731761693737308427
The Russians act in exactly the same way in Ukraine. And even more. If several thousand people killed in Israel, then in Ukraine several hundred thousand killed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 05, 2023, 13:25


Today's events are not about the history of the last centuries, but about the events of October 7, 2023.
Here is a good summary of the events. I saw many of the videos mentioned, most of which have since been removed, myself on the weekend in question.

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1731761693737308427

I don't agree, its about historical genocide and ethnic cleansing and the Zionist terrorists are not even trying to deny it in front of the world.

We are talking about the people considering themselves higher cast chosen by God and others are here to serve them. Sounds familiar ?

As radical as it gets
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 05, 2023, 13:31
Meanwhile support for Clownsky among his own people went under 30% and as I was saying while you were writing fairy-tales I expect that he will run away from his own people in the master of puppets arms sooner than later. 

He brought Ukraine on the edge of destruction with obeying his masters.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 05, 2023, 13:42
https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1731761693737308427 (https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1731761693737308427)
The Russians act in exactly the same way in Ukraine. And even more. If several thousand people killed in Israel, then in Ukraine several hundred thousand killed.

You can not fake history at current times! Period

5500 children killed in Gaza since October 07. 2023

1180 children killed in Ukraine since February 24, 2022


All responsible have to face international courts and Israel should face same sanctions as Russia. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/)
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/22/israel/gaza-hostilities-take-horrific-toll-children (https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/22/israel/gaza-hostilities-take-horrific-toll-children)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 05, 2023, 13:52


Today's events are not about the history of the last centuries, but about the events of October 7, 2023.
Here is a good summary of the events. I saw many of the videos mentioned, most of which have since been removed, myself on the weekend in question.

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1731761693737308427

I don't agree, its about historical genocide and ethnic cleansing and the Zionist terrorists are not even trying to deny it in front of the world.

We are talking about the people considering themselves higher cast chosen by God and others are here to serve them. Sounds familiar ?

As radical as it gets


Wow, no arguments and a lot of strong words, which you obviously do not understand, in one sentence (Genocide, ethnic cleansing, Zionist terrorists) - but not a word about the events on October 7.
Not a word about the fact that Hamas not only wants to wipe out the state of Israel, but all Jews worldwide. This is announced genocide before all eyes.

If the more than 1000 Hamas fighters had attacked military facilities in Israel, then that would still be somehow explainable in the overall conflict. However, the barbaric acts of October 7 are not.

When I started in this thread, I claimed that you can't lump all Russians together.

In the meantime, I hope that all travel restrictions for Europe will remain in place for the next few decades. But North Korea is said to have cool surf locations and Iran is very attractive in summer if you wrap your wife up well from top to bottom.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 05, 2023, 14:07
In the meantime, I hope that all travel restrictions for Europe will remain in place for the next few decades.
It is too little.  ;D ;D ;D
The main threat is posed by Russians who already live or are in the EU. They are putin's soldiers. The best solution would be deportation.
But as I already wrote, and not only me, trade with russia is criminal. Trade with Russians = trade with terrorists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 05, 2023, 19:30


Today's events are not about the history of the last centuries, but about the events of October 7, 2023.
Here is a good summary of the events. I saw many of the videos mentioned, most of which have since been removed, myself on the weekend in question.

https://twitter.com/SpencerGuard/status/1731761693737308427

I don't agree, its about historical genocide and ethnic cleansing and the Zionist terrorists are not even trying to deny it in front of the world.

We are talking about the people considering themselves higher cast chosen by God and others are here to serve them. Sounds familiar ?

As radical as it gets


Wow, no arguments and a lot of strong words, which you obviously do not understand, in one sentence (Genocide, ethnic cleansing, Zionist terrorists) - but not a word about the events on October 7.
Not a word about the fact that Hamas not only wants to wipe out the state of Israel, but all Jews worldwide. This is announced genocide before all eyes.

If the more than 1000 Hamas fighters had attacked military facilities in Israel, then that would still be somehow explainable in the overall conflict. However, the barbaric acts of October 7 are not.

When I started in this thread, I claimed that you can't lump all Russians together.

In the meantime, I hope that all travel restrictions for Europe will remain in place for the next few decades. But North Korea is said to have cool surf locations and Iran is very attractive in summer if you wrap your wife up well from top to bottom.

No arguments ?

Zionism has been declared by racist organization by the UN. So we are talking terrorists against terrorist at least.

So you claim that 5000 kids under age of 11 fought for Hamas ?

I'm Croatian, I surf at home  ;) ,

I personally fought Russian puppets and Serbs while your Germany and friends  imposed a weapon buying embargo on us so that they can slaughter us. And that includes Ukraine where candles were being lighten in churches to support victory of their orthodox brothers and celebrating falling of our cities in the hands of pro Russian terrorists armed to the teeth.

Dude, as you are from Germany, I can totally understand your point of view as you are generally standing in majority
on the wrong side of the history and chewing propaganda pretty much all the time so its an honor to stand on the other side.  ;)

As I come from a nation that don't have to feel any moral responsibility to support the ones that become same animals as the ones that were hunting them before and started doing the same thing that was done to them by YOUR ancestors just wrapped in cellophane. And we liberated ourselfs from your kind and from the ones that followed you, and helped Jewish people at the time they deserved help and they fought on our side against you.   

 

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 05, 2023, 19:42
Iran is very attractive in summer if you wrap your wife up well from top to bottom.

I see that the blood of your grandfathers is still boiling deep inside, and in your dreams you are still walking in your clean black suit, long leather coat,  shiny boots and a red bandana with a forbidden symbol around your hand. As a human I find you pathetic, as a Christian I feel sorry for your kind, and as a grandson of a soldier who participated in the destruction of the world you were about to create I can not be more proud.

Smrt Fasizmu, Sloboda Narodu!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 05, 2023, 21:21
Hamas not only wants to wipe out the state of Israel, but all Jews worldwide. This is announced genocide before all eyes.


Blatant lie or deep need of schooling. There are more than a million orthodox Jews just in occupied Palestine and millions both orthodox and non orthodox in the world who support Free Palestine and hate Zionism and openly admit the crimes of Israel. The only fear they have is from their own army and police.

Palestinians just hate oppressors and occupiers, like all the people hate anyone who comes to chase them from their land, steal it and puts them in modern concentration camps denying them food, water, electricity, education, right to travel and more. Jew were welcomed by Palestinians at first before they revealed the plans to take the land. Many normal ones are in good neighboring relationship even today. Its the Zionists that are the problem and Zionists need Hamas or anything similar as an excuse to attack and clean the Palestine from everything that walks. Half of the people that were killed were children. HALF.

As I said, we live at times you can not hide the truth:

Zionist Police is beating up peaceful orthodox Jews for supporting Palestine, same as SS was taking it on Germans that were protecting Jews.

Amnesty international said that, UN said that, Doctors Without Borders , every single relevant human rights movement...they all state genocide and ethical cleaning is being performed and that Israel is using basic needs water and food as weapons against humanity.

With nearly 50% death victims being just children its an unseen crime in modern history beating up even the order of the guy with little mustaches.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/667Kf1rUfmY (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/667Kf1rUfmY)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H9kImlnhyFI (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H9kImlnhyFI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9QaYCDAHT8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9QaYCDAHT8)

Here is your argument, in color, now feel free to go and explain to purest Orthodox Jews that they are Anti-Semitists  ;D


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fuu_3WdWIAENE8O.jpg:large) 


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 06, 2023, 02:59
Yes, Russian propaganda is strong in the EU. The immediate targets of the Russians are the Baltic states and the Balkans. These regions will either be occupied or create hot conflicts. As we see, the population of these regions is already ready for the implementation of scenarios from the Russian Na.zis.
There is no point in arguing. This is already a product of Russian propaganda.

So, I see that a lot of people read my posts. This is good.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 06, 2023, 03:00
Hamas not only wants to wipe out the state of Israel, but all Jews worldwide. This is announced genocide before all eyes.


Blatant lie or deep need of schooling.

You could have simply written that you disagree.

Here are 2 excerpts from the HAMAS Charta:

Preambel: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

Articel 13: "[Peace]  initiatives,  and  so-called  peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the  infidels  as  arbitrators in the  lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility."

Doesn't exactly sound like a declaration of love or a peaceful two-state solution.

I admit that it is disputed among experts whether the charta is merely anti-Zionist or anti-Semitic.

I hadn't previously realised that Croatians hated Germany so much.
Some of your remarks, including your choice of words, are really low class.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 06, 2023, 07:56
We thought that the UAE was an ally of democratic countries in the Middle East. But, as I see, this is not true. The UAE treats the 21st century Hitler and the war criminal putin well.
They greet, bow, and do not arrest. The Arab countries also decided to join the axis of evil in consisting of countries such as russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and Belarus.

russia President putin Arrives Greeted by Crown Prince Al Nahyan in UAE

https://youtu.be/PW1voq2q7ZY (https://youtu.be/PW1voq2q7ZY)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 06, 2023, 11:28
If khuylo came to the UAE, it means the Arabs, together with the Russians, are preparing some kind of price diversion for oil.

(https://scontent.flwo4-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/10561653_1447404722200371_113306648071408016_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=c2f564&_nc_ohc=3b5oI6EbdMAAX_PInIp&_nc_ht=scontent.flwo4-2.fna&oh=00_AfAR5q2z9_UIBO3kRWa0RvCpO7GPKKJAYZ4qxdqF1rC-3Q&oe=659803D0)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 07, 2023, 15:00
Good news. Germany will supply 200 thousand artillery shells to Ukraine.  8) 8) 8)

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/boris-pistorius-ukraine-krieg-waffen-lieferungen-100.html (https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/boris-pistorius-ukraine-krieg-waffen-lieferungen-100.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 07, 2023, 15:02
Germany! Don’t stop at just shells, your TAURUS missiles can help Ukraine 100% eliminate the Russian Crimean bridge.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 07, 2023, 15:51

I hadn't previously realised that Croatians hated Germany so much.
Some of your remarks, including your choice of words, are really low class.

And your racial remarks on wrapping wives is a pure example of class right ?

Don't play on hate card cause nobody hates you, every nation is deeply divided on the matters we are discussing and I personally
know Germans that are far from being immigrants and that would be way more harsh than me on racist stuff what you just wrote.


 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 07, 2023, 16:02

I hadn't previously realised that Croatians hated Germany so much.
Some of your remarks, including your choice of words, are really low class.

And your racial remarks on wrapping wives is a pure example of class right ?

That was an allusion to completely veiled women in Iran - perhaps it didn't quite come across.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 07, 2023, 16:23

I hadn't previously realised that Croatians hated Germany so much.
Some of your remarks, including your choice of words, are really low class.

And your racial remarks on wrapping wives is a pure example of class right ?

That was an allusion to completely veiled women in Iran - perhaps it didn't quite come across.


You know exactly the context you wrote it, and bare in mind that Iran looked like europe before west came to spread democracy and founded extremist groups which leaders have been trained by CIA. Russian and US orcs destroyed middle east for their colonial interest.

Also Israeli are crossing the border for decades, destroying fences set by UN and building new ones narrowing Palestinian land,
taking down houses close to border, destroying their roads, cutting water, electricity, food supply, killing international doctors taking down hospitals and FOUNDING HAMAS which was proven. they mined peace agreements and not even hiding it.

Fell free to support it, but f..k off from my right to speak the truth. 50% of people they killed were children and that's a genocidal plan.

(https://i.ibb.co/y6SL30d/7777.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 07, 2023, 16:48
[quote author=Lizard link=topic=37652.msg595707#msg595707 date=1701984212

Fell free to support it, but f..k off from my right to speak the truth. 50% of people they killed were children and that's a genocidal plan.

[/quote]

The truth is one of those things. Can you provide sources for your statement? I mean, apart from TikTok screen shots.

One of many reviews of TikTok: "The biggest antisemitic movement since the *"
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 07, 2023, 17:29
[quote author=Lizard link=topic=37652.msg595707#msg595707 date=1701984212

Fell free to support it, but f..k off from my right to speak the truth. 50% of people they killed were children and that's a genocidal plan.


The truth is one of those things. Can you provide sources for your statement? I mean, apart from TikTok screen shots.

One of many reviews of TikTok: "The biggest antisemitic movement since the *"
[/quote]

Sure, you want genocide statements from UN sources, WHO, Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International or any other human right association claiming Israel is committing a genocide and aiming children ?

 :D

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 08, 2023, 03:30
Israel said to set up pumps in Gaza for flooding Hamas tunnels with seawater

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-to-set-up-pumps-in-gaza-for-flooding-hamas-tunnels-with-seawater/ (https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-to-set-up-pumps-in-gaza-for-flooding-hamas-tunnels-with-seawater/)

 ;D 8) ;D 8) ;D 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 08, 2023, 04:57
Russian military death toll in Ukraine rises to about 337,220  8) 8) 8)

The relevant statement was made by the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Between February 24, 2022 and December 8, 2023, the enemy’s total combat losses included also 5,626 tanks (+8 over the past day), 10,508 armored fighting vehicles (+26), 8,057 artillery systems (+12), 919 multiple launch rocket systems, 605 anti-aircraft warfare systems, 324 aircraft, 324 helicopters, 10,591 motor vehicles and fuel tanks (+30), 22 warships/boats, 1 submarine, 6,136 unmanned aerial vehicles (+20), 1,159 special equipment units (+3). A total of 1,571 enemy cruise missiles were shot down.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3797341-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-about-337220.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3797341-russian-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-rises-to-about-337220.html)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 08, 2023, 07:17
Sure, you want genocide statements from UN sources, WHO, Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International or any other human right association claiming Israel is committing a genocide and aiming children ?

 :D

The situation is already catastrophic enough, so why is it necessary to spread false reports?
If it's your opinion that genocide is being committed here, then so be it.
However, I know of no official statement from the WHO or Doctors Without Borders as organization accusing Israel of genocide or the targeted killing of children.
The fact that war crimes are possibly being committed here  or the reference to a humanitarian disaster is something else, but not genocide.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 08, 2023, 08:57
What kind of genocide in Palestine are we talking about? This is only Russian propaganda, citing the false statements of Hamas terrorists, accusing Israel of genocide. We all remember how the terrorists screamed about the destroyed hospital, but in fact it turned out that the hospital was not destroyed, the rocket did not hit the building but the road, and the rocket was fired by the terrorists themselves. Listening to what Hamas says is like listening to what the Russian Na.zis, led by their tsar putin, say.

By the way, this putin is running for another presidential term. Why do Russian orcs hold elections in their country? Russian monkeys? Russians have no elections and no choice. The Russians only have a tsar, who is supported by 90% of the Russian orcs.

p.s. Of course, children are dying in Palestine, but mostly at the hands of Hamas terrorists or through the fault of Hamas.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 08, 2023, 13:00
We all remember how the terrorists screamed about the destroyed hospital, but in fact it turned out that the hospital was not destroyed, the rocket did not hit the building but the road, and the rocket was fired by the terrorists themselves.

I don't want to play down the suffering of the civilian population in general.

But this alleged hospital shelling was a prime example of HAMAS propaganda.

Nightly real video of a hospital from which fire and smoke seem to be rising. HAMAS: Israel shelled the hospital, at least 500 - 600 dead, mostly children. The usual pictures of fathers carrying their dead and injured children. Testimonies in front of piles of corpses.  To be on the safe side, a heartbreakingly long interview with an alleged doctor who had to climb over heaps of dead children on the children's ward to save 2 children at the risk of his life.

The next day in daylight you see a completely intact hospital, only a few cars in the central parking lot have crashed and burned due to a misguided missile part.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 08, 2023, 13:05
Sure, you want genocide statements from UN sources, WHO, Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International or any other human right association claiming Israel is committing a genocide and aiming children ?

 :D

The situation is already catastrophic enough, so why is it necessary to spread false reports?
If it's your opinion that genocide is being committed here, then so be it.
However, I know of no official statement from the WHO or Doctors Without Borders as organization accusing Israel of genocide or the targeted killing of children.
The fact that war crimes are possibly being committed here  or the reference to a humanitarian disaster is something else, but not genocide.

Lats ask the experts...

Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” Segal believes that Israeli forces are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.” He points to the mass levels of destruction and total siege of basic necessities—like water, food, fuel, and medical supplies—as evidence.


https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/ (https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/)


Lets se what Dr Christos Christou, MSF International president has to say about the situation in Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrJKWxj53U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrJKWxj53U)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 08, 2023, 13:09
We all remember how the terrorists screamed about the destroyed hospital, but in fact it turned out that the hospital was not destroyed, the rocket did not hit the building but the road, and the rocket was fired by the terrorists themselves.

I don't want to play down the suffering of the civilian population in general.



You exactly want to do that
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 08, 2023, 13:17
Sure, you want genocide statements from UN sources, WHO, Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International or any other human right association claiming Israel is committing a genocide and aiming children ?

 :D

The situation is already catastrophic enough, so why is it necessary to spread false reports?
If it's your opinion that genocide is being committed here, then so be it.
However, I know of no official statement from the WHO or Doctors Without Borders as organization accusing Israel of genocide or the targeted killing of children.
The fact that war crimes are possibly being committed here  or the reference to a humanitarian disaster is something else, but not genocide.

Lats ask the experts...

Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” Segal believes that Israeli forces are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.” He points to the mass levels of destruction and total siege of basic necessities—like water, food, fuel, and medical supplies—as evidence.


https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/ (https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/)


Lets se what Dr Christos Christou, MSF International president has to say about the situation in Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrJKWxj53U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrJKWxj53U)


Completely irrelevant. I could now quote other experts who see it differently - but that's a waste of time.

On topic. You simply claimed that several aid organizations you named accuse Israel of genocide as you see it. I caught you bungling and now you're pulling new sources out of your hat as a matter of course.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 08, 2023, 13:42
Sure, you want genocide statements from UN sources, WHO, Doctors without Borders, Amnesty International or any other human right association claiming Israel is committing a genocide and aiming children ?

 :D

The situation is already catastrophic enough, so why is it necessary to spread false reports?
If it's your opinion that genocide is being committed here, then so be it.
However, I know of no official statement from the WHO or Doctors Without Borders as organization accusing Israel of genocide or the targeted killing of children.
The fact that war crimes are possibly being committed here  or the reference to a humanitarian disaster is something else, but not genocide.

Lats ask the experts...

Raz Segal, the program director of genocide studies at Stockton University, concretely says it is a “textbook case of genocide.” Segal believes that Israeli forces are completing three genocidal acts, including, “killing, causing serious bodily harm, and measures calculated to bring about the destruction of the group.” He points to the mass levels of destruction and total siege of basic necessities—like water, food, fuel, and medical supplies—as evidence.


https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/ (https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/)


Lets se what Dr Christos Christou, MSF International president has to say about the situation in Gaza:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrJKWxj53U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrJKWxj53U)


Completely irrelevant. I could now quote other experts who see it differently - but that's a waste of time.

On topic. You simply claimed that several aid organizations you named accuse Israel of genocide as you see it. I caught you bungling and now you're pulling new sources out of your hat as a matter of course.

Well, if you don't want to see what the president of Doctors Without Borders or United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres are saying that's not my problem.

Guterres on Tuesday pleaded for civilians to be protected in the war between Israel and Hamas, voicing concern about "clear violations of international humanitarian law" in the Gaza Strip.

He told the 15-member U.N. Security Council that it was vital to be clear that war has rules, starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.

"It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum. The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation," Guterres said.


But as I said, I'm not surprised knowing most of Germans always stand on the wrong side of the history. That's why they have to swallow whats being served from the masters.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 08, 2023, 13:48


The next day in daylight you see a completely intact hospital, only a few cars in the central parking lot have crashed and burned due to a misguided missile part.

And yet another blatant lie:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8e6aHZXkAAWHo-?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 08, 2023, 13:52
I also wonder how would it be presented if this what Christians are going trough was happening to Zionists in Germany.

Pure racial hate at its finest and the kids are being trained to hate from youngest age as it seams, but nothing strange from people
presenting history from religious books, believing being superior race and calling all the non Jews cattle including non zionist Jews  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sUJrXNCfUrk (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sUJrXNCfUrk)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vio53jUpJz0 (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vio53jUpJz0)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z581dbGqr08 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z581dbGqr08)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RPX2towFpjU (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/RPX2towFpjU)


 They even try to force removing christian symbols from a German abbot :

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YYTv45XRWJA (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YYTv45XRWJA)


Now try to do that to someone with a Davids star and tell me how it goes  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 08, 2023, 14:19


But as I said, I'm not surprised knowing most of Germans always stand on the wrong side of the history. That's why they have to swallow whats being served from the masters. 

Did I insult Croatians because you are one? No. I focused on the topic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 08, 2023, 14:31


The next day in daylight you see a completely intact hospital, only a few cars in the central parking lot have crashed and burned due to a misguided missile part.

And yet another blatant lie:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8e6aHZXkAAWHo-?format=jpg&name=large)

This is actually just proof that you should tidy up and dust your cellar a bit.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 08, 2023, 14:55


But as I said, I'm not surprised knowing most of Germans always stand on the wrong side of the history. That's why they have to swallow whats being served from the masters. 

Did I insult Croatians because you are one? No. I focused on the topic.

You are pretty much focusing on your propaganda.

The things don't fit inside you just avoid discussing , you are or being a racist or playing on funny card.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 09, 2023, 13:24
The leader of the Russian Orthodox Church supports Russian President Vladimir putin’s murderous invasion of Ukraine.

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/DCWCSFYZFREIDG2BDQAGFRJU3U.jpg&w=691)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/19/putins-partner-war-crimes/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/19/putins-partner-war-crimes/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 09, 2023, 13:28
Let's talk about the Russian Church. This will be news to many, but the Russian Church is a branch of the KGB. There are a lot of parishes of this bloody church in the EU; putin’s agents work in them, spreading Russian propaganda and carrying out other criminal orders.
It is not enough to apply sanctions to russia; it is also necessary to ban the Russian Church in democratic countries and deport Russian priests.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 10, 2023, 09:05
University of Pennsylvania President Liz Magill resigned Saturday after backlash for her controversial testimony to Congress on campus anti-Semitism on Tuesday.

Pressure is now mounting on the presidents of Harvard and MIT,
whose testimony largely mirrored that of Liz Magill

 8) 8) 8)

"
One down.
Two to go.

This is only the very beginning of addressing the pervasive rot of antisemitism that has destroyed the most “prestigious” higher education institutions in America.

This forced resignation of the president of
@Penn
 is the bare minimum of what is required.

These universities can anticipate a robust and comprehensive Congressional investigation of all facets of their institutions negligent perpetration of antisemitism including administrative, faculty, funding, and overall leadership and governance.

@Harvard
 and
@MIT
, do the right thing. The world is watching.

In the case of
@Harvard
, Dr. Gay was asked by me 17x whether calling for the genocide of Jews violates Harvard’s code of conduct.
She spoke her truth 17x. And the world heard.

In the case of
@MIT
, Dr. Kornbluth answered the question. “If targeted at individuals, not public statements” ie dehumanizing the Jewish people in her antisemitic answer.
"

https://twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1733604352747508175 (https://twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1733604352747508175)

(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxbusiness.com/foxbusiness.com/content/uploads/2023/12/931/523/University-presidents-testify.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 10, 2023, 09:09
 ;D ;D ;D

Militants of the terrorist organization Hamas continue to surrender to Israeli forces throughout Gaza.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1733541557830070752 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1733541557830070752)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 10, 2023, 09:11
There are many questions for this Netanyahu. He is a friend of putin and negotiates with him by phone. What game is Netanyahu playing? Resign him!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 10, 2023, 12:20
Within a week, 2600 people read this topic.
 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 10, 2023, 15:15
Mützenich: Habe Putin "komplett unterschätzt"

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Muetzenich-Habe-Putin-komplett-unterschaetzt-article24590077.html (https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Muetzenich-Habe-Putin-komplett-unterschaetzt-article24590077.html)

So, we see that the Social Democratic Party of Germany is changing its policy. There is a reversal from friendship with the Russians to protection from the Russians. Over the 10 years of war in Ukraine, this is, of course, a radical turnaround.  :'( ::)
Judging from the article, Germany stubbornly refuses to understand that not only Russian orcs, but also China are a threat to civilization. It is China that gives the bite attack command to the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 10, 2023, 16:40

I hadn't previously realised that Croatians hated Germany so much.
Some of your remarks, including your choice of words, are really low class.

And your racial remarks on wrapping wives is a pure example of class right ?

I don't see any racist remarks here.

I see Ralf's statement as a reference to the oppression of women by a patriarchy that has prevailed for thousands of years in many countries around the world.

Who gives men the right to dictate to women that they must cover themselves or wear a headscarf, while the men who dictate this are allowed to walk around as they please?

If women want to cover up or wear a headscarf, that should be their right and their free choice. If they want to decide against it, they should also have the right to do so.

Narges Mohammadi has just been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting for women's rights.

There are countries where women and girls are forbidden to go to school, to a soccer stadium, to a public park... Is that fair??? Is it okay that just because you were born a woman, you are not allowed to participate in the same things that men love to participate in???

What do you think about this?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on December 11, 2023, 00:58
Just another differing opinion from a Swiss historian Dr. Daniele Ganser: Die USA und der Ukrainekrieg (Basel 2.9.2023)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0XPCjudZxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0XPCjudZxk)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 11, 2023, 02:04
Just another differing opinion from a Swiss historian Dr. Daniele Ganser: Die USA und der Ukrainekrieg (Basel 2.9.2023)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0XPCjudZxk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0XPCjudZxk)


Ganser is a star of the conspiracy theorist scene. Admittedly very eloquent and psychologically sophisticated. Incidentally, Ganser also trivialises the Holocaust and spreads crude theories about corona. The man makes a living from it.

The man is very impressive insofar as he works very subtly and manipulatively.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 11, 2023, 02:39
double posting
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 11, 2023, 02:45
Ganser is a star of the conspiracy theorist scene.
No, he's just a motherfucker. Or rather, an agent of Russian Na.zis, lying for Russian money. Actually, it’s not surprising that Russian trolls are spreading his lies. And there are a lot of such Russian agents in democratic countries. Democratic countries are under threat as long as this freak is given the right to spread Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on December 11, 2023, 03:28
That's exactly right. Democracy is truly in danger when people who consider themselves democrats want to decide who can speak and what can be said.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 11, 2023, 03:41
That's exactly right. Democracy is truly in danger when people who consider themselves democrats want to decide who can speak and what can be said.

In Russia, you are supposed to go to prison for expressing a critical opinion.
Ganser is allowed to appear everywhere here, spread his opinion and sell his books. Yes, that's what you call democracy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on December 11, 2023, 03:54
In Russia, you are supposed to go to prison for expressing a critical opinion.
Ganser is allowed to appear everywhere here, spread his opinion and sell his books. Yes, that's what you call democracy.
Democracy is under threat as long as this freak is given the right to spread Russian propaganda.
You guys should first figure out among yourselves what you consider democratic and what you don’t.
As for me, I don't see democracy ANYWHERE on the Planet.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on December 11, 2023, 08:07
As for me, I don't see democracy ANYWHERE on the Planet.

That's too bad, because then we cannot count on you to defend democracy where it does exist, even if it may not be perfect.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 11, 2023, 08:57
That's too bad, because then we cannot count on you to defend democracy where it does exist, even if it may not be perfect.
Russians don't defend democracy, Russians kill it. Moreover, they kill in different ways, including propaganda. When the USSR was behind the iron curtain, the Russians did not have the opportunity to spread evil in civilized countries. Now the Russians have the Internet, and they spread lies and evil all over the world.
The more sanctions are applied to the Russians, the more chances the civilized world will have to develop, prosper and export democracy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 11, 2023, 15:35
That's exactly right. Democracy is truly in danger when people who consider themselves democrats want to decide who can speak and what can be said.

In Russia, you are supposed to go to prison for expressing a critical opinion.
Ganser is allowed to appear everywhere here, spread his opinion and sell his books. Yes, that's what you call democracy.

And in US you can go to prison for telling the truth or jailed without a single proof.

EU Commission is the highest authority in EU and not a single one those people have NEVER been elected by the people of Europe and nobody even know the procedure to become a part of that. Judging by the Baroso and similar examples the titles are being inherited.

Pure example of totalitarianism under the veil of democracy. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 11, 2023, 15:40

I hadn't previously realised that Croatians hated Germany so much.
Some of your remarks, including your choice of words, are really low class.

And your racial remarks on wrapping wives is a pure example of class right ?

I don't see any racist remarks here.

I see Ralf's statement as a reference to the oppression of women by a patriarchy that has prevailed for thousands of years in many countries around the world.

Who gives men the right to dictate to women that they must cover themselves or wear a headscarf, while the men who dictate this are allowed to walk around as they please?

If women want to cover up or wear a headscarf, that should be their right and their free choice. If they want to decide against it, they should also have the right to do so.

Narges Mohammadi has just been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting for women's rights.

There are countries where women and girls are forbidden to go to school, to a soccer stadium, to a public park... Is that fair??? Is it okay that just because you were born a woman, you are not allowed to participate in the same things that men love to participate in???

What do you think about this?

Fist of all he said to take OUR wife's and wrap them.

Secondly, most of those regimes were founded and extremists were trained by US army even on US ground and brought to power to destroy the governments that refused to sell oil in USD to water their inflation on the whole world.

What do you think about that ?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on December 11, 2023, 15:42
As for me, I don't see democracy ANYWHERE on the Planet.

That's too bad, because then we cannot count on you to defend democracy where it does exist, even if it may not be perfect.

Electing father and son on the most powerful political position in the world among 300+ Million candidates is a bit further from perfect than you are trying to imply  :D

We almost had husband and wife after that  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 11, 2023, 15:56
That's exactly right. Democracy is truly in danger when people who consider themselves democrats want to decide who can speak and what can be said.

In Russia, you are supposed to go to prison for expressing a critical opinion.
Ganser is allowed to appear everywhere here, spread his opinion and sell his books. Yes, that's what you call democracy.

And in US you can go to prison for telling the truth or jailed without a single proof.

EU Commission is the highest authority in EU and not a single one those people have NEVER been elected by the people of Europe and nobody even know the procedure to become a part of that. Judging by the Baroso and similar examples the titles are being inherited.

Pure example of totalitarianism under the veil of democracy.

Please read through this stuff before you make any comments.

I even agree with you about the Eu administrative apparatus.

But that wasn't the point. A critic of the system is allowed to speak out here in Germany within the framework of freedom of opinion, in Russia you would end up in prison for it. That was the statement. Period. I didn't mention the EU or the USA in a single sentence.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 11, 2023, 16:08

Fist of all he said to take OUR wife's and wrap them.

Never said that. I wrote: .... Iran is very attractive in summer if you wrap your wife up well from top to bottom.

Alluding to veiled women and the new friendship with Russia,  as I have already repeatedly made clear.

In Pakistan, I myself have seen in the nineties men throwing stones at women who were dressed more modernly and without headscarves. I don't like that.
If you like it, go ahead. But don't keep misquoting me.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 11, 2023, 17:26

I hadn't previously realised that Croatians hated Germany so much.
Some of your remarks, including your choice of words, are really low class.

And your racial remarks on wrapping wives is a pure example of class right ?

I don't see any racist remarks here.

I see Ralf's statement as a reference to the oppression of women by a patriarchy that has prevailed for thousands of years in many countries around the world.

Who gives men the right to dictate to women that they must cover themselves or wear a headscarf, while the men who dictate this are allowed to walk around as they please?

If women want to cover up or wear a headscarf, that should be their right and their free choice. If they want to decide against it, they should also have the right to do so.

Narges Mohammadi has just been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting for women's rights.

There are countries where women and girls are forbidden to go to school, to a soccer stadium, to a public park... Is that fair??? Is it okay that just because you were born a woman, you are not allowed to participate in the same things that men love to participate in???

What do you think about this?

Fist of all he said to take OUR wife's and wrap them.

Secondly, most of those regimes were founded and extremists were trained by US army even on US ground and brought to power to destroy the governments that refused to sell oil in USD to water their inflation on the whole world.

What do you think about that ?

First of all, you should read what was actually written.

Secondly, your statement about the USA has absolutely nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with the veiling of women, the headscarf requirement, the restriction of women's rights and the patriarchy in these countries.
And it explains even less why Ralf's statement should have been racist. The context is completely missing! Especially as Ralf didn't say a single word about the USA - you don't even know his opinion on this.
Instead of answering the question, you completely evade it.

Or are you saying that the USA is to blame for the fact that in some countries around the world women and girls have to cover themselves completely, are not allowed to go to school, are not allowed to enter parks, etc.?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on December 11, 2023, 23:57
in some countries around the world women and girls have to cover themselves completely, are not allowed to go to school
It's so cold in my city now that not only women, but also men have to completely wrap themselves in warm clothes to avoid freezing)) And children are allowed not to go to school due to severe frost.
Winter video of my city from the boy Sasha Porosin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXZTaVgipbQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXZTaVgipbQ)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 12, 2023, 02:18
in some countries around the world women and girls have to cover themselves completely, are not allowed to go to school
It's so cold in my city now that not only women, but also men have to completely wrap themselves in warm clothes to avoid freezing)) And children are allowed not to go to school due to severe frost.
Winter video of my city from the boy Sasha Porosin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXZTaVgipbQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXZTaVgipbQ)

?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on December 12, 2023, 03:14

?
"some different opinions" on the reasons to cover themselves completely. Don't be so serious and relax.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 12, 2023, 05:54
Speech by the President of Ukraine.

Freedom must always prevail when challenged – speech by the President of Ukraine at the National Defense University of the United States.

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/svoboda-povinna-peremagati-zavzhdi-koli-htos-kidaye-yij-vikl-87673 (https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/svoboda-povinna-peremagati-zavzhdi-koli-htos-kidaye-yij-vikl-87673)

....
"russia’s still got the means to mess with democracies worldwide. putin’s got buddies in this – each one a threat to any free nation, to regional or global order, to human rights and democracy, be it HAMAS, Iran, North Korea or others. No accidents here – they’re all linked by their hate for freedom.
putin’s crafting his own ideology, and at its core is complete disregard for human life, for freedom, and for respecting any kind of borders – between countries, between people, even between truth and lies. He’s spreading this ideology, looking for allies even here in America. His weapon against you right now is propaganda and disinformation, but if he sees a chance, he’ll go further. Now, he’s shifting russia’s economy and society onto what he calls “war tracks”. Sadly, he’s had time to do this. But the direction of these “war tracks” is clear – I’m sure you see it. "

"russia is set on more than just Ukraine’s land, resources, or people. It won’t be satisfied with just a part of Ukraine, or even all of it. Ukraine is just a stepping stone for russia, a way to act like that old empire that died in 1989, and to challenge the lead of freedom wherever the Russian tsar likes.
putin must lose – so that everyone else, who sees russia’s war on Ukraine as his personal lecture at the so-called “University of Aggression”, gets the message loud and clear. putin must lose!"

"We’re going to stop russia right at the start of its global war against freedom. Right where the first front line is – on our land, in our skies, at our sea. Ukraine is the first front. But we’ve got to make sure – and we can make sure! – it doesn’t come to having a second or third front against freedom somewhere in the Baltic countries or another part of the world. When there’s a chance to defend one country’s freedom to avoid fighting in other lands – that’s what should be done. The current generation of free nations should learn from past battles in Europe. The destruction spread by dictatorships is too greedy, and it needs to be stopped right at the start. "

....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 12, 2023, 05:56
Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 12, 2023, 06:04
In my opinion, a lot of attention is paid to Russian trolls in this topic. Russian trolls need to be ignored. The less you quote trolls, the less they copy Russian propaganda onto this forum.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on December 12, 2023, 06:25
In my opinion, a lot of attention is paid to Russian trolls in this topic.
Certainly! It is better to pay more attention to the persona of the clown Ze and the Na-zi slogans of the TSIPSO agent.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 12, 2023, 10:37

Or are you saying that the USA is to blame for the fact that in some countries around the world women and girls have to cover themselves completely, are not allowed to go to school, are not allowed to enter parks, etc.?

Yes, he is implying that those religious fundamentalist and oppressive regimes must be blamed on the USA.
In other words, without the USA, the whole world would be a paradise of tolerance, mutual respect, peace and collaboration.

Probably a psychological trauma suffered during the Milošević wars and the dismemberment of his childhood Yugoslavia, is now reflected in his obsessive anti-americanism and his way of seeing the world.
He is embracing all those who share his hatred for the USA, no matter if they are imperialist colonial invadors like russia or terrorists like hamas, or the good old anti-capitalists/marxists.

His "arguments" are systematically avoiding to address the root of the problems and systematically spin towards "yeah, but what about USA?", "What about 300 years ago?" etc.

#whataboutism
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 12, 2023, 11:03
And there are a lot of such useful idiots in Europe. Which is what the Russians use.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 12, 2023, 11:03
Avdiivka. Ukraine.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces are liquidating Russian orcs.  ;D ;D ;D

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12697 (https://t.me/nevzorovtv/12697)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 12, 2023, 13:37
..
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 12, 2023, 15:48
 8) 8) 8)
US intelligence: russia has lost almost 90% of its pre-invasion military in Ukraine

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/)

A declassified US intelligence report estimates that the war in Ukraine has cost russia 315,000 killed and wounded servicemen, or almost 90% of the personnel it had at the beginning of the full-scale invasion.

The report says that Moscow's losses in personnel and armoured vehicles inflicted by the Ukrainian military have set back russia's military modernisation by 18 years.

The source said that a recently declassified US intelligence report estimates that russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 with 360,000 servicemen.

Since then, as the report says, 315,000 Russian servicemen, or about 87% of the total number with which Russia started the war, have been killed or wounded.

As the source reported, these losses have forced russia to relax its recruitment standards and conscript convicts and elderly civilians for deployment in Ukraine.

"The scale of losses has forced russia to take extraordinary measures to sustain its ability to fight. Russia declared a partial mobilisation of 300,000 personnel in late 2022 and has relaxed standards to allow recruitment of convicts and older civilians," the assessment says.

The Russian army has left 1,300 armoured vehicles on the battlefield and is forced to reinforce these forces with T-62 tanks produced in the 1970s, the source said.

As of 12 December, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine estimated total Russian combat losses at around 340,650.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 12, 2023, 16:40

?
"some different opinions" on the reasons to cover themselves completely. Don't be so serious and relax.

Ralf was accused of being a racist because he had written something about the wrapping of women in Iran in the SUMMER!

If you're interested in why I don't think the issue is succinct enough for me to relax and unwind, you're welcome to read this from Amnesty International:

https://www.amnesty.de/informieren/amnesty-journal/iran-proteste-frauen-leben-freiheit-mahsa-amini-essay-gilda-sahebi (https://www.amnesty.de/informieren/amnesty-journal/iran-proteste-frauen-leben-freiheit-mahsa-amini-essay-gilda-sahebi)

Two excerpts from it:

"The talk of freedom rights and universal values is imported from the West and is an expression of a degenerate sexual morality. This must be punished. Women who resist, take off their headscarves and shout "woman, life, freedom" are just "prostitutes" from the government's point of view, who must be raped. God's law says so."

"Hatred of women as state doctrine

But what does this mean for the moral and social value of a woman's life? The cleric Sadeq Shirazi put it this way: God had created three kinds of animals. Firstly, animals that were created to transport people, such as horses and camels. Then animals that were created to feed people, such as goats, sheep and cows. The third type of animal is women. Like goats, sheep and cows, they were created so that men could use them. God gave these animals the appearance of women so that men would not have to be afraid of them."

In the context of the accusation of racism against Ralf and the systematic oppression of women "because of God's law", you will understand why I had to put a ? after your post. You seem to have completely missed the point.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on December 12, 2023, 22:10

In the context of the accusation of racism against Ralf and the systematic oppression of women "because of God's law", you will understand why I had to put a ? after your post. You seem to have completely missed the point.

Perhaps I really missed the point. I have read previous posts and have not seen anyone making any accusations against Ralph of racism and systematic oppression of women.
Perhaps I lost in translation.
I don’t want to escalate the situation in this topic, which I wanted to defuse on the contrary.
So I'd rather not come here for a while.
Happy upcoming Christmas! Peace, health and goodness to everyone's home!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 02:58
Women who resist, take off their headscarves and shout "woman, life, freedom" are just "prostitutes" from the government's point of view, who must be raped. God's law says so."
In the Arab world, women are stoned or doused with sulfuric acid.
Behind all these crimes is also russia and the Russians, who are in coalition with the criminal Arab regimes.
The Russians sponsor Arab terrorists, supply them with weapons and soldiers. Also, Russians in Arab countries commit war crimes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 03:05
 ;D ;D ;D

Summary of a recently intercepted phone call from a Russian soldier to his brother at home:

Note: I like the fact that "Baba Yaga" has made it into the vernacular of Russian nightmares.

"A Russian soldier calls his brother and says that they are held prisoner by Ukrainian drones.
The AFU has already destroyed almost all the equipment and they are only able to move only on foot.
However, moving on foot is very dangerous because the Ukrainians have so many drones that they even hit single targets with them.
In addition, according the soldier, the Ukrainians use heavy drones - “Baba Yagas”, which drop artillery shells and anti-tank mines on the trenches and dugouts of the Russians.
Because of this, the soldier is constantly in fear and does not feel safe anywhere.
According to him, they are nothing more than guinea pigs on which NATO tests all its latest technologies, and they cannot do anything about it.
The occupier doubts that he will be able to survive at least until spring." -- "Radio Operator"

https://twitter.com/UKikaski/status/1734537070964535671 (https://twitter.com/UKikaski/status/1734537070964535671)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 04:55
Biden! Where are the rockets? Where is the aviation? Where are the shells?
Why should Ukraine defend all of Europe from Russian orcs without the necessary weapons?
Assh.ole.

 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 13, 2023, 05:46
Biden! Where are the rockets? Where is the aviation? Where are the shells?
Why should Ukraine defend all of Europe from Russian orcs without the necessary weapons?
Assh.ole.

 >:( >:( >:(

Sorry, but you still don't get it, do you?  ::)

The Republicans are abusing Ukraine for their election campaign and blocking the financial and military aid that Biden wants to provide for Ukraine. Some of the Republicans are linking the pledge to Ukraine to the expansion of the border fence between the USA and Mexico.

"More and more Republicans are expressing doubts about support for Ukraine or rejecting it altogether. The majority of US President Biden's Democrats, on the other hand, are in favor of new support for Ukraine - but do not have the necessary majority to get it through parliament alone."

When will you finally understand this???

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukraine-krieg-wolodymyr-selenskyj-kaempft-um-us-hilfen-doch-republikaner-bleiben-hart-a-a5e5cf7a-4945-4ad4-a13e-0b0ec8f80401 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukraine-krieg-wolodymyr-selenskyj-kaempft-um-us-hilfen-doch-republikaner-bleiben-hart-a-a5e5cf7a-4945-4ad4-a13e-0b0ec8f80401)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 06:45
Sorry, but you still don't get it, do you?  ::)

When will you finally understand this???
What do Republicans and Trump have to do with it anyway? All these fairy tales and excuses are designed for people who are not in the know at all. You read your German official press, but you do not hear what I have been writing here for many months.
The weapons that Biden gave and is giving are designed only for defense, and even then taking into account the huge number of deaths of Ukrainians. It was not the Republicans who forbade Biden to give Ukraine missiles with a range of 300 and 500 km, aviation and tanks. It is Biden personally who sells Ukrainian blood on the geopolitical market and does not provide the weapons Ukraine needs.
You are completely out of touch with what is really happening.

And if I write that Biden is a assh.ole, that means it is so.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 13, 2023, 09:24

You are completely out of touch with what is really happening.
No. It's exactly to other way around.
You refuse to see the reality when it goes against your deep-rooted convictions.

I noticed that you are often quoting from The Washington Post.
Here is a WP quote you should make efforts to understand.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 09:46

You are completely out of touch with what is really happening.
No. It's exactly to other way around.
You refuse to see the reality when it goes against your deep-rooted convictions.

I noticed that you are often quoting from The Washington Post.
Here is a WP quote you should make efforts to understand.
Biden is assh.ole. And not because now the Republicans temporarily do not want to allocate the money that Biden is asking for. But because he has not supplied the necessary weapons to Ukraine for 2 years. I have already written about this many times and you know what I wrote.
You don't understand what it means to not have exactly the right weapons that could kill the Russian supply logistics and make the Ukrainian offensive successful. You are all fixated on some kind of money, sums, abstractions, gossip, bargaining in Congress. All this is crap.
Now the Russians are attacking, and they are attacking because Ukraine does not have missiles, aviation, tanks and shells. Even the presence of missiles alone would have made a Russian offensive impossible.
So Biden is assh.ole.

Yes, Zelenskyy is trying to get at least some weapons. The same shells can help a little. But this is not the main weapon that Ukraine needs.
This crisis in the United States is temporary; soon the Republicans will approve the money that Biden is asking for. But this money helps Ukraine very little. Biden is using them ineffectively. Therefore, I write about him without using the language of diplomacy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 13, 2023, 10:22
Biden
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on December 13, 2023, 10:50
And there are a lot of such useful idiots in Europe. Which is what the Russians use.

LOL

Must be our free universities.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on December 13, 2023, 11:16
You should understand a couple of things:

All western europeans have better lives than any american. In fact, our perception is that your lives are crap. If you ask a french or an spaniard they will say that the USA is like the 3rd world for them and would never live there. Is not hate or anti-americanism, it's life. We all hate your goverments and companies, not people, americans are nice. But we have cool nations to lose in a war (with all our crap and problems). Maybe you don't.

The second point is that Russians and ukrainians are exactly the same people and have the same methods. You don't want a war with any of them. In fact, the only attack on european and NATO territory was from Ukraine. And Zelensky, the hero, is just a puppet put in goverment by an media oligarch.

So, it's really hard to empathize today. Russia has not attacked me, Ukraine did. Tha war is a brutal agression? Of course. Are we going to fight in our land the russians? Of course not. Maybe Alabama or Kentucky are better places to fight if you are really angry with the russians (all wars use to be far from the USA). We support Ukraine? Yes. But we are not mad.

And we have bigger menaces that Russia, so we need Russia in fact to fight our real war against Global Caliphate.

Remember and repeat this: we need Russia. The real wat is already on our soil (and yours).

So.. we hope Ukraine to win. No doubt, but we know it's impossible and it's close to end. Russia has won.

It's better to get a peace with Putin now because he will not live forever and It's enough. In the Future, things ca't be changed.

Anyway, Zelensky the hero who atacked western Europe with american and british aid is going to fall in 2024. In Ukarine are tired of him and tired of war and they are russians anyway.


Merry Xmas to everybody and kisses form russian trolls around the World.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 12:13
Biden
(https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/?action=dlattach;attach=20325;image)
Biden sings beautiful songs. Only his words weigh and cost very little. He knows how to speak, he learned it throughout his life. I called Biden what I called him, without reference to the situation that is now happening in Congress. Of course, the Russians will be happy if Ukraine gets nothing at all. Zero. But all this does not change the fact that Biden is assh.ole.
He is not up to the task of leading the entire democratic world. His lot is to speak beautiful speeches on camera.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 13, 2023, 12:44

All western europeans have better lives than any american. In fact, our perception is that your lives are crap. If you ask a french or an spaniard they will say that the USA is like the 3rd world for them and would never live there. Is not hate or anti-americanism, it's life. We all hate your goverments and companies, not people, americans are nice. But we have cool nations to lose in a war (with all our crap and problems). Maybe you don't.


How did you come to this extraordinary conclusion?
As a German and European, I don't share your views at all.
I don't know anyone in my circle who thinks like that either.
Both in Europe and in the USA, there are certainly areas, social hotspots, where people would certainly not like to live.
 
Since I know the USA quite well, I'm not saying this from hearsay but from my own experience.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 13, 2023, 12:51
You should understand a couple of things:

All western europeans have better lives than any American. In fact, our perception is that your lives are crap. If you ask a french or an spaniard they will say that the USA is like the 3rd world for them and would never live there.

Funny enough I have both French and Spanish colleagues in my team, here in the US, who chose to become American citizens.
And FYI, there are over 150k French and over 800k Spaniards who decided to go through the tough uprooting experience, to move and live in the US.

I also lived for many years in Western Europe as well as in Eastern Europe. Even if there are many things in need of improvement here, and while I still miss some aspects of European life, I'm clearly better off where I am now.

So while your view is based on hearsay and Marxist, anti-capitalist, thus anti-American propaganda, my and my European colleagues' opinions are based on real-life experience.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 13:32

All western europeans have better lives than any american. In fact, our perception is that your lives are crap. If you ask a french or an spaniard they will say that the USA is like the 3rd world for them and would never live there. Is not hate or anti-americanism, it's life. We all hate your goverments and companies, not people, americans are nice. But we have cool nations to lose in a war (with all our crap and problems). Maybe you don't.


How did you come to this extraordinary conclusion?
 
;D
He is a useful idiot who listens to Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 13, 2023, 14:30

Biden sings beautiful songs. Only his words weigh and cost very little. He knows how to speak, he learned it throughout his life. I called Biden what I called him, without reference to the situation that is now happening in Congress. Of course, the Russians will be happy if Ukraine gets nothing at all. Zero. But all this does not change the fact that Biden is assh.ole.
He is not up to the task of leading the entire democratic world. His lot is to speak beautiful speeches on camera.

Luckily, Zelenskyy has a much better understanding of the American politics than you do.

"I am glad to be back at the White House and meeting with @POTUS Joe Biden.

I am grateful to the U.S. for its unwavering support for Ukraine, including $200 million military aid package announced today.

In the Black Sea, we defeated the Russian fleet. Our maritime exports have resumed, bolstering both our economy, which is now growing at 5%, and global food security.

We are moving in the right direction, and in our talks with President Biden today, we are discussing ways forward.

We have clear and attainable priorities for 2024, including depriving Russia of its air superiority and thwarting its offensive operations; jointly producing arms; and using frozen Russian assets to support Ukraine.

Freedom must be well-armed and well-defended."

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 15:57
 :o :o :o

Zero Talent, are you kidding me? Who do you quote? Zelenskyy? President of Ukraine?
Yes, what's the difference that he said or did not say. Here the forum is not the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, where they speak diplomatic. Here they refer to military experts and write about the situation in an understandable truthful language.
And at the expense of the Russian fleet in the Black Sea, so Ukraine basically eliminated it at the expense of its own production of surface drones, as well as Soviet -made weapons.
Everything else said Zelenskyy said in the language of diplomacy and has been said for 2 years. There are very few results from these conversations.
Here in the topic I gave a link to the article of the Commander -in -Chief of Ukraine Zaluzhnyi, he more frankly wrote why Baidan is Assh.ole.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 16:00
I am grateful to the U.S. for its unwavering support for Ukraine, including $200 million military aid package announced today.
What would you understand everything, this money is enough only for 3-5 days of military operations with the Russians.
For comparison, the United States spent $ 300 million a day on the maintenance of its army in Afghanistan. And with whom did they fight in Afghanistan? With the partisans, the Taliban, who did not have tanks, there were no aviation, artillery, and there was no much other.
Compare the number of Taliban soldiers and the number of Russian orcs advancing to Ukraine.
You either do not really understand what you write and what you read, or think that Ukrainians are idiots.

And how did the US military operation in Afghanistan end under Biden? I'll tell you, the shameful flight of the Americans. The United States abandoned people who collaborated with them, abandoned all allies into the hands of terrorists. Republicans talk about this all the time. And Trump himself will use this argument in his election campaign and he will be right.
So who else is Biden if not Assh.ole?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 13, 2023, 16:05
I sometimes begin to think that Ukraine needs to stop resisting the Russians, and let them through its territory to the EU. Maybe then citizens of the EU countries will begin to understand that Biden is Assh.ole.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 13, 2023, 16:28
I sometimes begin to think that Ukraine needs to stop resisting the Russians, and let them through its territory to the EU. Maybe then citizens of the EU countries will begin to understand that Biden is Assh.ole.

Take a deep breath and think.

Even without our support, Ukraine could not be defeated as planned.

You yourself always proudly post the Russian losses here.

Russia has lost a large proportion of its ground troops and a considerable number of tanks.

Out of this situation, now a war against NATO?  :o :o :o



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 13, 2023, 16:43
I am grateful to the U.S. for its unwavering support for Ukraine, including $200 million military aid package announced today.
What would you understand everything, this money is enough only for 3-5 days of military operations with the Russians.
For comparison, the United States spent $ 300 million a day on the maintenance of its army in Afghanistan. And with whom did they fight in Afghanistan? With the partisans, the Taliban, who did not have tanks, there were no aviation, artillery, and there was no much other.
Compare the number of Taliban soldiers and the number of Russian orcs advancing to Ukraine.
You either do not really understand what you write and what you read, or think that Ukrainians are idiots.

And how did the US military operation in Afghanistan end under Biden? I'll tell you, the shameful flight of the Americans. The United States abandoned people who collaborated with them, abandoned all allies into the hands of terrorists. Republicans talk about this all the time. And Trump himself will use this argument in his election campaign and he will be right.
So who else is Biden if not Assh.ole?

Again, you don't get how a democratic government works.
The POTUS can only do so much without Congress approval. This is not a dictatorship.
For more aid, the POTUS needs approval from congress, where he has to deal with your beloved the anti-Ukraine republicans, who blocked everything.
You don't know your own interest or you don't know how to express it.

While it is understandable up to a certain point, with this attitude, if it is also the attitude of some Ukrainian officials (as you are hinting here), the only thing you can hope to achieve is to alienate even your closest allies, who may grow tired of such moronic accusations.

The fact that both you and the russian trolls are trolling Biden, while praising the Republicans, should make you think twice. Unfortunately, you don't even think once, before making your stupid statements.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 13, 2023, 18:19
You should understand a couple of things:

All western europeans have better lives than any american. In fact, our perception is that your lives are crap. If you ask a french or an spaniard they will say that the USA is like the 3rd world for them and would never live there.

I have no idea where you get these insights from, but they definitely don't match reality!
Why should the USA be third world?
I love my home country and enjoy living here. But I have visited the USA - at least the north-east - and I can say quite clearly that I really enjoyed it there and that it has absolutely nothing to do with the third world.
I have no idea where your information comes from.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 13, 2023, 18:28
I sometimes begin to think that Ukraine needs to stop resisting the Russians, and let them through its territory to the EU. Maybe then citizens of the EU countries will begin to understand that Biden is Assh.ole.

Trump has made it very clear that "America First" is his credo. He also made it clear that he does not consider military aid for Europe and further participation in NATO to be particularly important. I have never heard anything comparable from Biden.

Even if you don't understand it or don't want to understand it, your tone towards Biden is blatant. When the time comes - and I very much fear that it will - I am curious to see what you will write about Trump and whether your opinion of Biden will change dramatically. I know you don't believe me. But you'll see what happens. Trump makes the deal and Ukraine will be much smaller than before. And Trump will celebrate it. And then announce that Putin is a tough guy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 14, 2023, 04:36
I sometimes begin to think that Ukraine needs to stop resisting the Russians, and let them through its territory to the EU. Maybe then citizens of the EU countries will begin to understand that Biden is Assh.ole.
Take a deep breath and think.
Even without our support, Ukraine could not be defeated as planned.
You yourself always proudly post the Russian losses here.
Russia has lost a large proportion of its ground troops and a considerable number of tanks.
Out of this situation, now a war against NATO?  :o :o :o
Winning a battle does not mean winning the war. I'm not even talking about the loss of people, the environment, factories, cities, and destruction.
Yes, Ukraine has shown good results in eliminating Russians over the past few centuries, but these were just battles.
NATO is a military bloc. And I don’t understand why Ukraine, without sufficient military assistance (not to mention assistance in manpower), should fight alone with russia, China and Iran.
I personally believe that with the level of assistance that NATO provides (this also includes sanctions), it is necessary to issue an ultimatum to NATO. Either Ukraine receives the necessary military assistance and deadly sanctions are introduced against russia and other countries that help it, or Ukraine capitulates.
I write this way so that everyone can understand what is really happening.

What war with NATO are you talking about? You better ask the Russian Na.zis this question. Ukraine as a country does not plan to fight with NATO. But, if Ukraine is occupied by the Russians, all those who do not have time to leave Ukraine will be mobilized by the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 14, 2023, 04:46
Again, you don't get how a democratic government works.
The POTUS can only do so much without Congress approval. This is not a dictatorship.
For more aid, the POTUS needs approval from congress, where he has to deal with your beloved the anti-Ukraine republicans, who blocked everything.
1. I did not campaign for Trump or the Republicans.
2. I am writing my opinion about Biden and the Democrats. Over the past 30 years, I have not seen a single effective Democratic president.
3. Everyone knows that Baiden personally decides whether Ukraine will receive aviation, missiles and tanks or not. The war has been going on for 2 years, and Ukraine does not have these weapons. There are very few tanks and not enough for an offensive.
4. Biden had money for two years, and he spent this money as ineffectively as possible. If I were the Republicans, I wouldn’t give him money either.

The fact that both you and the russian trolls are trolling Biden, while praising the Republicans, should make you think twice.
Unlike the Russians, I don’t troll Biden, I write about him what I think about him. And not only me, but also military experts think so.
It's December, New Year is coming soon. I take stock of Biden's performance over the past year.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 14, 2023, 04:57
Trump has made it very clear that "America First" is his credo. He also made it clear that he does not consider military aid for Europe and further participation in NATO to be particularly important. I have never heard anything comparable from Biden.
I don't see any difference between Trump and Biden. The first one says that he will not give anything to anyone. And the second one says that he will give, but in fact does not give what is necessary and does not introduce normal sanctions. No difference. You live in a world of illusions that your TV offers you. The reality is actually different, and the closer you are to Ukraine, the better you will see the reality.

Even if you don't understand it or don't want to understand it, your tone towards Biden is blatant. When the time comes - and I very much fear that it will - I am curious to see what you will write about Trump and whether your opinion of Biden will change dramatically. I know you don't believe me. But you'll see what happens. Trump makes the deal and Ukraine will be much smaller than before. And Trump will celebrate it. And then announce that Putin is a tough guy.
1. With the help provided by the United States and NATO, Ukraine under President Biden is losing the war, losing people and territories.
2. If someone else is the President of the United States and he pursues bad policies, I will also write everything I think about him.
3. My opinion about Biden will not change. Biden, of course, may still change his policy, in which case my opinion will change. But now the calendar is December 2023 and I wrote my opinion.
4. I will not predict the policies of Trump or any other Republican US president.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 14, 2023, 05:00
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 14, 2023, 11:57

You live in a world of illusions that your TV offers you. The reality is actually different, and the closer you are to Ukraine, the better you will see the reality.


Whenever one hopes that you're having a light moment, you throw out some unnecessary nonsense.
How . do you know where everyone here gets their information?
I find that very presumptuous of you.

You obviously have no idea about the German media either. All opinions are represented here across the board, including open criticism of our own government, Israel or the USA. If you have no idea, then maybe you shouldn't even bring up the subject.

And the idea that Ukraine should only spread the truth here is more than naive.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 15, 2023, 04:02
About what awaits the EU and NATO.

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/alarm-nato-weak-military-empty-arsenals-europe-a72b23f4?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1 (https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/alarm-nato-weak-military-empty-arsenals-europe-a72b23f4?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1)

Alarm Grows Over Weakened Militaries and Empty Arsenals in Europe.
Budget cuts and an eroded weapons industry have hollowed out armed services; Russia’s invasion of Ukraine reveals risks.

The British military—the leading U.S. military ally and Europe’s biggest defense spender—has only around 150 deployable tanks and perhaps a dozen serviceable long-range artillery pieces. So bare was the cupboard that last year the British military considered sourcing multiple rocket launchers from museums to upgrade and donate to Ukraine, an idea that was dropped.

Concern grows in Europe over weakened armies and empty arsenals

There is growing alarm in Europe about empty military arsenals, and the position of the US Senate on providing assistance to Ukraine contributes to this.

Over the past many years, Europe's industrial capabilities for producing weapons have declined significantly. Given limited budgets and slow economic growth, improving the situation will not be easy. Moreover, the majority of the population opposes increasing military spending at the expense of reducing social obligations.

Europe "systematically demilitarized because it didn't have to spend money" thanks to the lack of an obvious threat and US military dominance around the world, said Anthony King, professor of military studies at the University of Warwick.

The war in Ukraine showed the depth of Europe's problem. The West is confident that as long as the Russian military special operation continues within Ukraine, nothing threatens European countries. However, Moscow's victory could lead to the emergence of hot spots in other territories.

The publication notes that the British army, which is the leading military ally of the United States and has the largest defense budget among European countries, has only about 150 tanks and 12 long-range artillery systems. France has less than 90 heavy artillery units. And Germany had enough ammunition for two days of fighting. Denmark does not have heavy artillery, submarines or air defense systems.

“Although the combined economic and industrial power of NATO countries exceeds the economic and industrial power of Russia and its allies, the Russian Federation is now ahead. Ukraine is now fighting a war of attrition, and if we do not get serious about the production of ammunition, the threat of war will most likely approach us point blank," said former NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen.

Previously, European countries promised to provide billions of dollars in assistance to Kyiv, but in addition to economic problems they are faced with restrictions on the production of weapons. If the US withholds the bulk of the aid, Europe does not have the supplies to make up the difference, nor will it be able to resupply Ukraine and rebuild its own forces at the same time. The head of NATO's military committee, Dutch admiral Rob Bauer, said this year that Europe could now "see the bottom of the barrel" in terms of what it could offer Ukraine.

The European Union is unlikely to keep its promise to supply Kyiv with a million badly needed artillery shells by this spring, having provided only about a third of that amount. North Korea, a poor dictatorship of 25 million people, supplied Russia with more than a million missiles over the same period, according to Western officials and the Russian government.

Ukrainian officials have said that if aid were cut off entirely, they would be unable to continue an already difficult military campaign to retake lost territory and may not be able to hold off Russian units backed by a much larger country with overwhelming manpower.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 15, 2023, 04:04
EU countries will have to prepare parking spaces for Russian tanks if Ukraine capitulates.
We all see that US promises and commitments are worthless. Ukraine is a clear example of this. If the Russian orcs begin to attack the EU, it is very likely that the US army will flee Europe.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 15, 2023, 04:07

You live in a world of illusions that your TV offers you. The reality is actually different, and the closer you are to Ukraine, the better you will see the reality.


Whenever one hopes that you're having a light moment, you throw out some unnecessary nonsense.
How . do you know where everyone here gets their information?
I find that very presumptuous of you.

You obviously have no idea about the German media either. All opinions are represented here across the board, including open criticism of our own government, Israel or the USA. If you have no idea, then maybe you shouldn't even bring up the subject.

And the idea that Ukraine should only spread the truth here is more than naive.
All the world's democratic media are controlled from a common center. I see on this topic how easily Biden was able to fool everyone and make the Republicans guilty.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 15, 2023, 04:32
Whenever one hopes that you're having a light moment,
I publish various information. And even in a bad situation, Ukraine can eliminate many Russian orcs. This is always good news.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 15, 2023, 11:51
NATO nation Germany is on the brink of declaring an emergency. German chancellor Olaf Scholz told the parliament that emergency would have to be declared in wake of military aid to Ukraine if situation there doesn't improve by next year.

https://youtu.be/9SW6VkNxLFE (https://youtu.be/9SW6VkNxLFE)
______

I see that, unlike the Germans on this forum, Scholz understands what the occupation of Ukraine will lead to.
So, Germans, your leader is friends with his head. Get ready to all work for the military industry and send weapons to Ukraine.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 15, 2023, 12:24
All the world's democratic media are controlled from a common center. I see on this topic how easily Biden was able to fool everyone and make the Republicans guilty.

yeah, yeah.. an international cabal, a pedophile elite is controlling the world! We know that already from QAnon & Co!

It's funny that in some contexts Biden is considered an old senile fool, but in other contexts, he is a mastermind able to fool everybody, except for stoker2014 and maybe a handful of other "smart" people  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 15, 2023, 12:56
NATO nation Germany is on the brink of declaring an emergency. German chancellor Olaf Scholz told the parliament that emergency would have to be declared in wake of military aid to Ukraine if situation there doesn't improve by next year.

https://youtu.be/9SW6VkNxLFE (https://youtu.be/9SW6VkNxLFE)
______

I see that, unlike the Germans on this forum, Scholz understands what the occupation of Ukraine will lead to.
So, Germans, your leader is friends with his head. Get ready to all work for the military industry and send weapons to Ukraine.

Really now? Seriously?  ::)

You take a video from the Hindustan Times (an Indian anti-Western propaganda newspaper) to explain German politics here?

All right.

Not a single quote fell like that or is taken completely out of context. The term emergency is related to special funds, state budget and debt brake to justify it constitutionally. The emergency situation includes not only Ukraine, but also the Israel conflict, the climate crisis and other things.

That was just complete disinformation on your part.

Try Al Jazeera TV, you might get better information about German domestic politics  ;)

But thank you very much for revealing your sources. That explains a lot.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 15, 2023, 13:26
Not a single quote fell like that or is taken completely out of context. The term emergency is related to special funds, state budget and debt brake to justify it constitutionally. The emergency situation includes not only Ukraine, but also the Israel conflict, the climate crisis and other things.
:o ??? ::) :'( :'( :'(

RalfLiebhold, I always link to the sources I use. I never hide them.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 15, 2023, 13:29
All the world's democratic media are controlled from a common center. I see on this topic how easily Biden was able to fool everyone and make the Republicans guilty.

yeah, yeah.. an international cabal, a pedophile elite is controlling the world! We know that already from QAnon & Co!

It's funny that in some contexts Biden is considered an old senile fool, but in other contexts, he is a mastermind able to fool everybody, except for stoker2014 and maybe a handful of other "smart" people  ;D
;D ;D ;D
Humor is good.
Let's leave it like that. I'm happy with this interpretation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 15, 2023, 19:15

You live in a world of illusions that your TV offers you. The reality is actually different, and the closer you are to Ukraine, the better you will see the reality.


Whenever one hopes that you're having a light moment, you throw out some unnecessary nonsense.
How . do you know where everyone here gets their information?
I find that very presumptuous of you.

You obviously have no idea about the German media either. All opinions are represented here across the board, including open criticism of our own government, Israel or the USA. If you have no idea, then maybe you shouldn't even bring up the subject.

And the idea that Ukraine should only spread the truth here is more than naive.
All the world's democratic media are controlled from a common center. I see on this topic how easily Biden was able to fool everyone and make the Republicans guilty.

Yes, this is exactly, what russian trolls and their autocratic friends are spreading all over the globe! And now you are one of those who believes in that rubbish! Putin will celebrate you!  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 15, 2023, 19:26
I sometimes begin to think that Ukraine needs to stop resisting the Russians, and let them through its territory to the EU. Maybe then citizens of the EU countries will begin to understand that Biden is Assh.ole.

Are you aware that Putin supported Trump in the US elections? Did you ever wonder why? You should read a little bit and think about it!

And from my point of view you should read a little bit about democracy - what that is, how it works and so on.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 16, 2023, 03:33

You live in a world of illusions that your TV offers you. The reality is actually different, and the closer you are to Ukraine, the better you will see the reality.


Whenever one hopes that you're having a light moment, you throw out some unnecessary nonsense.
How . do you know where everyone here gets their information?
I find that very presumptuous of you.

You obviously have no idea about the German media either. All opinions are represented here across the board, including open criticism of our own government, Israel or the USA. If you have no idea, then maybe you shouldn't even bring up the subject.

And the idea that Ukraine should only spread the truth here is more than naive.
All the world's democratic media are controlled from a common center. I see on this topic how easily Biden was able to fool everyone and make the Republicans guilty.

Yes, this is exactly, what russian trolls and their autocratic friends are spreading all over the globe! And now you are one of those who believes in that rubbish! Putin will celebrate you!  ::)
Just don’t draw hasty conclusions from my words. So far, I have not seen any criticism of Biden's policies over the past 2 years in the Democratic press. Why? Is Biden so good?
Fuck Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 16, 2023, 03:37
I sometimes begin to think that Ukraine needs to stop resisting the Russians, and let them through its territory to the EU. Maybe then citizens of the EU countries will begin to understand that Biden is Assh.ole.

Are you aware that Putin supported Trump in the US elections? Did you ever wonder why? You should read a little bit and think about it!

And from my point of view you should read a little bit about democracy - what that is, how it works and so on.
I am not discussing democracy and how it works in this thread. And it works really bad. At this rate, soon all of Europe will be under Russian occupation.
I have already written about putin and Trump before.
1. putin is a KGB agent, and everything he says is untrue. His public support for Trump could have many purposes, but not what everyone thought.
2. I don’t personally like Trump, I don’t campaign for him, and I don’t see the difference between Trump and Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 18, 2023, 04:37
Good news.

The European Union will adopt the 12th package of sanctions against russia on Monday - Politico.

Bad news.

At the request of Austria, Ukraine excluded the Austrian bank Raiffeisen from the list of international sponsors of the war.

In fact, Raiffeisen Bank is an international sponsor of the war. The Russians bring money into russia through this bank and finance terrorism.

Austria probably really wants to see Russian tanks on the streets of its destroyed cities.

Now I don’t know how effective this 12th package of sanctions will be.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on December 18, 2023, 12:03

All western europeans have better lives than any american. In fact, our perception is that your lives are crap. If you ask a french or an spaniard they will say that the USA is like the 3rd world for them and would never live there. Is not hate or anti-americanism, it's life. We all hate your goverments and companies, not people, americans are nice. But we have cool nations to lose in a war (with all our crap and problems). Maybe you don't.


How did you come to this extraordinary conclusion?
 
;D
He is a useful idiot who listens to Russian propaganda.

Sure.

But I don't live in a third world country. Like you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on December 18, 2023, 12:22
Who is making the great business with war blowing our pipelines?

The USA.
As usual.

Great NATO ally (two spies ((spions???)) expelled form my country last week and two jailed).


Useful idiots? Have you earn anything with war? Your country really did, HUGE money.

cheaper education?
cheaper healthcare?
cheaper prescriptions (LOL)?
cheaper courts?
houses with real walls (no crap walls)?
high speed trains?
proper highways?


any?



Who is the useful idiot?

Are you sure you are not living on the streets in the future? Never?


I'm sure. All my family is sure. All my friends are sure. All the people I know are sure. I will never know anyone living on the streets.

Our 10 yold children have the culture level of your adults.

Russian marching over Europe.

It's incredible to read that from an adult.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trabuco on December 18, 2023, 12:29
The main news in my 98.000 pop. town today.   

Some Xmas lights going to floor. Headlines  ;D

No shootings.
No fentanyl.
No homeless.
No wars.
No houses ruined by the wind, or water or fire or...

Merry Xmas everyone.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on December 18, 2023, 15:55
Has everyone seen the new movie, Leave the World Behind, recently released on Netflix? Its based on a best-seller book and 2 of its Executive Producers are Michelle and Barack Obama.

I watched it last night because I wanted to know what does Michelle and Barack Obama want us to know?

The answers are pretty much relevant to some of the discussions on this thread.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 18, 2023, 16:24
Has everyone seen the new movie, Leave the World Behind, recently released on Netflix? Its based on a best-seller book and 2 of its Executive Producers are Michelle and Barack Obama.

I watched it last night because I wanted to know what does Michelle and Barack Obama want us to know?

The answers are pretty much relevant to some of the discussions on this thread.
American apocalyptic psychological thriller.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leave_the_World_Behind_(film) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leave_the_World_Behind_(film))

It is unlikely that this film has anything to do with this topic. Although I personally have not seen this film.

As for Obama, he was a very bad US president who allowed the outbreak of the third world war. Under Obama, Russian terrorists occupied Crimea and the eastern regions of Ukraine. Obama, as US President, should have provided Ukraine with weapons and implemented the Budapest Memorandum. But Obama did none of this. Biden is a follower of Obama.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on December 18, 2023, 16:26
My interpretation of the messages of the film:

"Make peace, not war. Trust your neighbours. America has a lot of enemies, what would happen if they all ganged up together?"

Very clear messages towards the end, especially when they go and meet the character played by Kevin Bacon. Watch the movie before you make any assumptions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 19, 2023, 02:56
My interpretation of the messages of the film:
"Make peace, not war. Trust your neighbours. America has a lot of enemies, what would happen if they all ganged up together?"
Well, now it’s clear what Obama has been doing and continues to do. The enemies of the United States have all been united for a long time and the third world war has been going on for 10 years. Wake up!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 19, 2023, 04:51
Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine: EU adopts 12th package of economic and individual sanctions.
The Council adopted today a twelfth package of economic and individual restrictive measures in view of the continued Russian war of aggression against Ukraine. These measures deliver a further blow to Putin's ability to wage war by targeting high-value sectors of the Russian economy and making it more difficult to circumvent EU sanctions.
With this 12th package, we are putting forward a robust set of new listings and economic measures which will further weaken Russia’s war machine. Our message is clear, as I already stated when I chaired the informal Foreign Affairs Council in Kyiv: we remain steadfast in our commitment to Ukraine and will continue to support its fight for freedom and sovereignty.
.....
https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023/12/18/russia-s-war-of-aggression-against-ukraine-eu-adopts-12th-package-of-economic-and-individual-sanctions/ (https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023/12/18/russia-s-war-of-aggression-against-ukraine-eu-adopts-12th-package-of-economic-and-individual-sanctions/)

You can read what is included in the new sanctions using the link.
____

Let's hope that Germany will now stop trading with the Russians through third countries.

As I always write, it is necessary to ban all Russian stockers from stock agencies and all payment systems. Russian stockers and freelancers bring a lot of currency into Na.zi russia, pay taxes, support the Russian economy, and finance terrorism.
Now Russian stockers have opened accounts in banks of Kazakhstan and are lying to stock agencies and payment systems that they do not live in russia. All these diversionists need to be banned.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 19, 2023, 09:22
https://lithuaniatribune.com/arming-ukraine-open-letter-to-joseph-biden-president-of-the-united-states-of-america/ (https://lithuaniatribune.com/arming-ukraine-open-letter-to-joseph-biden-president-of-the-united-states-of-america/)

Arming Ukraine: Open letter to Joseph Biden, President of the United States of America

Mr. President,
We would like to thank you for making it possible, with the invaluable support of the Netherlands and Denmark, for the first F-16s to be deployed in Ukraine in the near future. We hope that this heralds the formation of an air force of 200 to 300 aircraft which will allow Ukraine to effectively defend its airspace.

Without indulging in pessimism or defeatism, it seems the enemy Ukraine faces today has learned from its initial military mistakes, revitalised its military-industrial complex and mastered new types of armament. Russia has also been able to find new sources of arms supplies from some of its allies. From this point of view, Iran’s delivery of glide bombs and the likely supply of medium-range missiles are particularly worrying.

We are writing to you as president of the leading country in the Ramstein coalition to ask you to lift the restrictions on the use of weapons supplied by your country, and to call on the coalition member countries to do likewise, so that the Ukrainian army can neutralise military structures and equipment, ammunition and fuel depots, and military production facilities deep inside enemy territory.

Furthermore, the failure of certain European and American companies to comply with the embargo on the supply of military or dual-use technologies to Russia is in our view particularly serious. It requires a very firm response, which could consist of the creation within NATO of a structure modelled on the Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls (CoCom) of the Cold War. The committee would be responsible for ensuring full compliance with the ban on the export of any sensitive technology to countries representing a real or potential threat to the free world. In addition to Russia, these include the People’s Republic of China, Iran, North Korea and Belarus.

Mr. President, without a much stronger mobilisation than we have seen so far, neither Ukraine, nor all the countries in the coalition, will be able to win this war. Without a shift to a war economy on the part of all Western countries, and the increase in arms procurement that this implies, Moscow’s strategy of buying time and banking on the fatigue of governments and public opinion is likely to pay off. We cannot allow that to happen.

Highest regards,

Signatories

Filippos Andrianos, commodore (ret.), Hellenic Navy, Greece

Vincenzo Camporini, general (ret.), former Chief of Defence, Italy

Vincent Desportes, general (ret.), former director of the Centre for Doctrine and Use of Forces (CDEF), associated professor at Sciences Po, France

Vicente Díaz de Villegas y Herrería, general (ret.), Spanish Army, security and defence analyst, Spain

Eric S. Edelman, ambassador (ret.), former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, 2005-2009, USA

Gert-Johannes Hagemann, major general (ret.), German Army, Berlin, Germany

Willy Herteleer, admiral (ret.), ex Belgian Chief of Defence

Ben Hodges, lieutenant general (ret.), former Commander of the US Army in Europe, USA
.....
....
A total of 230 government officials signed the letter.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 19, 2023, 09:26
Well, I’m not writing to Biden in diplomatic language. Biden fuck, where is the aviation?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 19, 2023, 14:04
Well, I’m not writing to Biden in diplomatic language. Biden fuck, where is the aviation?

You better save your faking energy.  ;)

You will be forced to perform "yuge" amounts of faking, when trump and his maga republican cult will cut all support for Ukraine and serve it on a silver platter to putin.

Meanwhile, Ukraine can't fly its already donated F16s, without proper training. A small reminder for you:
"In November 2023, Romania opened a training center for Ukrainian pilots to learn how to fly F-16 fighter jets"

Or, instead of faking your friends, you should focus your faking on putin's servants and useful idiots: trump, maga republicans, Hungary (and Orban, especially), and Austria... 🤮
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 19, 2023, 16:44
Well, I’m not writing to Biden in diplomatic language. Biden fuck, where is the aviation?

You better save your faking energy.  ;)

You will be forced to perform "yuge" amounts of faking, when trump and his maga republican cult will cut all support for Ukraine and serve it on silver platter to putin.

Meanwhile, Ukraine can't fly its already donated F16s, without proper training. A small reminder for you:
"In November 2023, Romania opened a training center for Ukrainian pilots to learn how to fly F-16 fighter jets"

Or, instead of faking your friends, you should focus your faking on putin's servants and useful idiots: trump, maga republicans, Hungary (and Orban, especially), Austria... 🤮


True!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 19, 2023, 17:05
Well, I’m not writing to Biden in diplomatic language. Biden fuck, where is the aviation?

You better save your faking energy.  ;)

You will be forced to perform "yuge" amounts of faking, when trump and his maga republican cult will cut all support for Ukraine and serve it on silver platter to putin.

Meanwhile, Ukraine can't fly its already donated F16s, without proper training. A small reminder for you:
"In November 2023, Romania opened a training center for Ukrainian pilots to learn how to fly F-16 fighter jets"

Or, instead of faking your friends, you should focus your faking on putin's servants and useful idiots: trump, maga republicans, Hungary (and Orban, especially), Austria... 🤮
Zero Talent, you are a victim of democrat propaganda!  ;D ;D ;D

Where did I write anything in support of Trump? These are your fantasies.

*insult removed* Biden favorably decided to allow Ukrainians to train for the F16 as early as November 2023. Thank you, at least not in November 2024 or 2025, or never at all. And who stopped Biden from giving such permission back in 2021 or at least in 2022? How much do the Russians pay him?
There is information that there are Ukrainian pilots who, even before 2022, already knew how to fly an F16.
Also, even today, no one knows when this *insult removed* Biden will allow the supply of aviation to Ukraine and in what quantity.

I have a bad attitude towards Trump, I think he is not better than Biden, but I have nothing to blame Trump for. Under Trump, the United States was not as weak, helpless and disgraced as under Democrat Biden. Democrats are a disgrace to the USA!
And we have already spoken many times, the majority of Republicans are in favor of providing the necessary weapons to Ukraine.
Orban, so who keeps Hungary in NATO and the EU? These are your friends and allies. EU countries trade with Russians, and there are no sanctions from the United States for this.
I’m not writing fake news here, but facts.

And it’s complete nonsense when the democratic media say that only Ukrainian pilots should fly the F16. This is crap, lies and propaganda of the Democrats! There is a foreign legion in Ukraine, where any citizen from any country can fight Russian orcs. And in many countries there are pilots who know how to fly an F16 and can carry out combat missions on the territory of Ukraine.
The only problem is that Biden likes Russian Na.zis, and he stubbornly refuses to give Ukraine the required amount of aviation.

Biden's place is in prison. Here's my verdict.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 19, 2023, 17:23
And we have already spoken many times, the majority of Republicans are in favor of providing the necessary weapons to Ukraine.
Orban, so who keeps Hungary in NATO and the EU?
We have spoken many times, but since your ostrich head is still buried in the sand, you can't see the reality. The times you are nostalgic about are long gone. Today's Republicans have an anti-Ukraine majority. They blocked multiple times Biden's attempts to offer more support to Ukraine, this month inclusive. They are my co-nationals but feel free to fak them.

Yes, that Orban.
He is bringing shame to the EU and NATO. Hungary should be kicked out of both EU and NATO. Orban blackmailed Bulgaria to facilitate the transport of russian gas, in exchange for not blocking Bulgaria's attempt to join the Schengen treaty.
Orban blocked $50 billion worth of EU funding for Ukraine.
We are only allies on paper. Feel free to fak Orban.

Austria transformed itself into nothing else but a russian oblast in the middle of Europe. They are blocking Romania's bid to join Schengen, as a way to keep Ukraine as isolated as possible from EU aid. They are blocking the exploitation of huge natural gas reserves in the Black Sea to avoid competing with russia, and keep Europe as dependent as possible on russian gas. They forced Ukraine to lift its blacklisting of Raiffeisen Bank, an Austrian bank doing big business in russia. Their former ministry of foreign affairs moved to russia and declared herself happy to live there... etc.

Feel free to fak Austria too, instead of faking your friends.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 20, 2023, 02:55
And we have already spoken many times, the majority of Republicans are in favor of providing the necessary weapons to Ukraine.
Orban, so who keeps Hungary in NATO and the EU?
We have spoken many times, but since your ostrich head is still buried in the sand, you can't see the reality. The times you are nostalgic about are long gone. Today's Republicans have an anti-Ukraine majority. They blocked multiple times Biden's attempt to offer more support to Ukraine, this month inclusive. They are my conationals, but feel free to fak them.

Yes, that Orban.
He is bringing shame to EU and NATO. Hungary should be kicked out of both EU and NATO. Orban blackmailed Bulgaria to facilitate the transport of russian gas, in exchange for not blocking Bulgaria's attempt to join the Schengen treaty.
Orban blocked $50 billion worth of EU funding for Ukraine.
We are only allies on paper. Feel free to fak Orban.

Austria transformed itself in nothing else but a russian oblast in the middle of Europe. They are blocking Romania's bid to join Schengen, as way to keep Ukraine as isolated as possible from EU aid. They are blocking the exploitation of huge natural gas reserves in the Black Sea to avoid competing with russia, and keep Europe as dependent as possible on russian gas. They forced Ukraine to lift its blacklisting of Raiffeisen Bank, an Austrian bank doing big business in russia. Their former ministry of foreign affairs moved to russia and declared herself happy to live there... etc.

Feel free to fak Austria too, instead of faking your friends.
1. You use #whataboutism.
2. The conversation is about Biden and not about the Republicans or Trump.
3. I already wrote about Austria 2 days ago. Everyone already knows that the Hungarians support the Russians.
4. But the biggest threat is your President Biden. He's a *insult removed*.
5. I have already written many times about why you are wrong. I won’t repeat myself, because... You're using #whataboutism tactics.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 20, 2023, 07:48
. You're using #whataboutism tactics.
You don't understand what #whataboutism is about. Allow me to clarify its definition for you.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy used to justify someone's bad behavior by deflecting the discussion towards someone else's bad behavior.

Example: John should also be allowed to cheat on his exams because Peter cheated before.
No! Cheating at exams is bad, and even if someone cheated before, it doesn't mean that bad behavior should become acceptable.

Another example, Lizard's typical whataboutism:  russia should be allowed to be a colonial empire and attack Ukraine because Great Britain used to be a colonial empire too.
No! Colonial imperialism is bad, there is no justification for what russia is doing today.

On the other hand, Biden did a lot of good things for Ukraine's defense, Biden is Ukraine's friend (he is even taking political hits internally, to support a just cause), while the others I mentioned are its obvious enemies.

So, I am not justifying Biden's "bad behavior" by comparing it to the Republicans, to Orban or to Austria, because because Biden's behavior is the exact opposite.

What I am trying to tell you is to focus your anger where it should be: not on Biden who helped Ukraine war effort with over 100 billion dollars, but on Republicans, trump, Hungary, and Austria who are trying to block all further pro-Ukraine initiatives.

Focus your anger on them, not on your supporters. At the same time, you can always kindly ask your friends and supporters, for more help. This is perfectly fine.

Get it now?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 20, 2023, 09:07
Biden did a lot of good things for Ukraine's defense, Biden is Ukraine's friend (he is even taking political hits internally, to support a just cause), while the others I mentioned are its obvious enemies.
So, I am clearly not justifying Biden's "bad behavior" by comparing it to the Republicans, to Orban or Austria, because because Biden's behavior is the exact opposite.
What I am trying to tell you is to focus your anger where it should be focused: not on Biden who helped Ukraine war effort with over 100 billion dollars, but on Republicans, trump, Hungary, Austria who are trying to block all further initiatives.
I don't agree with you. And I have already written about this in many posts in this topic.

Focus your anger on them, not on your supporters. At the same time, you can always kindly ask your friends and supporters, for more help. This is perfectly fine.
Biden's behavior is the same as the behavior of Austria, Hungary, Trump's texts and other enemies of Ukraine and democracy. You are a Biden supporter, you listen to what he says and you believe what he says. I don’t listen to what Biden says, I just look at what he has done in 3 years. He has done very little, his policies are not effective. His policies led to the death of several hundred thousand Ukrainians, an environmental disaster and the occupation of Ukraine.
Ukraine has been telling Biden what Ukraine needs for 2 years now. And Biden has been ignoring requests for 2 years.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 20, 2023, 09:09
The good thing is that we clarified that I was not using #whataboutism, and you learned something today.
You also switched your views on trump.
This is progress.
Time will teach you many other things you refuse to acknowledge today.

PS. I told you several times that I am not a Biden supporter. I am anti-trump and anti-maga. I will gladly vote for Nikki Haley or Chris Christie, instead of Biden.
But like on many other aspects, your deep-rooted beliefs are preventing you from acknowledging the reality.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 20, 2023, 09:11
The good thing is that we clarified that I was not using #whataboutism, and you learned something.
This is progress.
I just don't want to clutter up the topic again.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 21, 2023, 07:17
Republicans are ready to allocate money to Ukraine. But with a condition. Control over the expenditure of this money.
It is not yet clear how this will all work. If I were the Republicans I would set the condition for Biden to supply aircraft, missiles, and tanks to Ukraine. Only on such conditions would I give this Biden money.
Or better yet, Biden should be impeached and removed from governing the country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 21, 2023, 09:59
Or better yet, Biden should be impeached and removed from governing the country.
Lol. Based on what? Because you don't like him?
Or because of the hundreds of billions of dollars his administration managed to donate to Ukraine?

Again, you don't seem to understand how a democratic system works.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 21, 2023, 11:00
Or better yet, Biden should be impeached and removed from governing the country.
Lol. Based on what? Because you don't like him?
Or because of the hundreds of billions of dollars his administration managed to donate to Ukraine?

Again, you don't seem to understand how a democratic system works.
1. Ineffective spending of money of US taxpayers.
2. Biden's bad policy led to hundreds of thousands of deaths.
​3. And yes, I do not like Biden and putin. I put both of them in one row.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 21, 2023, 12:43
Or better yet, Biden should be impeached and removed from governing the country.
Lol. Based on what? Because you don't like him?
Or because of the hundreds of billions of dollars his administration managed to donate to Ukraine?

Again, you don't seem to understand how a democratic system works.
1. Ineffective spending of money of US taxpayers.
2. Biden's bad policy led to hundreds of thousands of deaths.
​3. And yes, I do not like Biden and putin. I put both of them in one row.

These are not reasons for impeachment, but your badly informed opinions.
This is not how democracy works.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 21, 2023, 13:00
Ukraine.
The Russian occupier made an obscene gesture to the Ukrainian drone. Was immediately liquidated.  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.facebook.com/groups/317906429074822/permalink/1428289401369847/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/317906429074822/permalink/1428289401369847/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 21, 2023, 13:33
https://www.unicef.de/informieren/aktuelles/presse/-/unicef-foto-des-jahres-2023/346054 (https://www.unicef.de/informieren/aktuelles/presse/-/unicef-foto-des-jahres-2023/346054)

(https://www.unicef.de/_cae/resource/image/346210/16x10/974/608/abfc77361f820ac9990ce1d2f41caaad/C33277393F8C7F8015C48CC251A4D74F/-patryk-jaracz-01-print.jpg)

At the photo of the year competition of the UN Children's Fund, a photo depicting a moment of childish carelessness against the background of Russian armed aggression in Ukraine won.

Polish photographer Patrik Jarac, who has been documenting events in Ukraine since the start of the full-scale invasion, captured the moment children play against the backdrop of smoke caused by enemy airstrikes.

"In the company of friends, five-year-old Alina is training to ride a bicycle. A moment of serenity under the black clouds of doom in a meadow in the Rivne region in northwestern Ukraine. The night before, a drone set fire to an oil depot here."

The Foundation emphasized that the children depicted in the photo give hope for the future and inspire optimism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 24, 2023, 08:04
Today is a great day. For the first time in many centuries, Ukraine celebrates Christmas with all of Europe, from December 24 to 25. Until this year, the Russian occupiers prohibited Ukraine from celebrating Christmas on December 25th. Russian perverts celebrate Christmas after the New Year, on January 7th.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 25, 2023, 04:57
There is some interesting good information. It looks like F16 fighters have begun to enter Ukraine. Over the past 2 days, 5 Russian fighters and bombers have been destroyed.  ;D 8) ;D 8) ;D 8)
I see that after the Republicans told Biden everything they thought about him, and I said it too :), aviation began to arrive very quickly.
We will monitor further developments.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 25, 2023, 06:20
I see that after the Republicans told Biden everything they thought about him, and I said it too :), aviation began to arrive very quickly.
We will monitor further developments.
Lol, this is funny! You are incorrigible!

All this didn't happen overnight, my friend. The process began more than half a year ago. Scroll up this thread. What you refused to acknowledge back then, happens now.

It was announced already last week that several F16s crossed the border into Ukraine, flying from their training grounds in Romania.

The Republicans have nothing to do with your F16s.
If anything, your darling isolationists led by trump-the-moron, would do anything to stop all aid for Ukraine. Unfortunately there is a high chance for this to happen, since there is a high chance for trump to return to power and for his maga cult to consolidate their majority, both inside the Republican party and in Congress.

Mark my words!
Come back to read this again, when it will happen, instead of acting surprised, like you do now, with the F16s.
But hopefully, by then, your head will not be buried in the sand anymore and you'll be able to see the reality for what it is.  ;)

Anyway, Merry Christmas and Slava Ukraini!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 25, 2023, 14:53
I see that after the Republicans told Biden everything they thought about him, and I said it too :), aviation began to arrive very quickly.
We will monitor further developments.
Lol, this is funny! You are incorrigible!

All this didn't happen overnight, my friend. The process began more than half a year ago. Scroll up this thread. What you refused to acknowledge back then, happens now.

It was announced already last week that several F16s crossed the border into Ukraine, flying from their training grounds in Romania.

The Republicans have nothing to do with your F16s.
If anything, your darling isolationists led by trump-the-moron, would do anything to stop all aid for Ukraine. Unfortunately there is a high chance for this to happen, since there is a high chance for trump to return to power and for his maga cult to consolidate their majority, both inside the Republican party and in Congress.

Mark my words!
Come back to read this again, when it will happen, instead of acting surprised, like you do now, with the F16s.
But hopefully, by then, your head will not be buried in the sand anymore and you'll be able to see the reality for what it is.  ;)

Anyway, Merry Christmas and Slava Ukraini!
Yes, the dark horse Trump is a concern. And his far-right supporters are against providing assistance to Ukraine. But I wrote about the majority of Republicans, whom you constantly write down as Trump supporters. And I write about what is happening now, and do not make any predictions like you.
As for the F16, Biden delayed the transfer for as long as possible, and the United States has not yet given a single aircraft. I think I’m right, it was under the influence of the Republicans that he was forced to allow the transfer of aircraft.
Of course, there are still many questions whether a normal number of F16 and missiles will be transferred to them.
Here there is already a Ukrainian advertisement for the received F16.

https://twitter.com/AlexBondODUA/status/1739198188882477566 (https://twitter.com/AlexBondODUA/status/1739198188882477566)

Glory to the heroes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 25, 2023, 16:01

Yes, the dark horse Trump is a concern. And his far-right supporters are against providing assistance to Ukraine. But I wrote about the majority of Republicans, whom you constantly write down as Trump supporters.

You don't realize, but we are writing about the same thing.

The maga cult owns the republican party now and it already forms a majority. An anti-Ukraine majority!
That's what your wishful thinking is preventing you from acknowledging.

But I appreciate that you moved on from your initial pro-trump stance and now you realize he is an existential threat to Ukraine.
But he is not the only threat. The Republican party has also become a threat, being dominated by trump's isolationist maga majority.

You will soon realize this too!  ;)

Slava Ukraini!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 26, 2023, 03:15
The maga cult owns the republican party now and it already forms a majority. An anti-Ukraine majority!
The Republican party has also become a threat, being dominated by trump's isolationist maga majority.
I don't agree.
In this topic I provided links to sources, the percentage of the Trump wing is very small. If you have other evidence, provide links.

But I appreciate that you moved on from your initial pro-trump stance and now you realize he is an existential threat to Ukraine.
I don't agree. I see Biden and the Democrats as a threat. Whether Trump will be worse is not yet clear. It is also not a fact that Trump will win the election; I think that Biden may lose the election to other Republican candidates. Also, I definitely won’t make predictions about someone’s future politics, as you do.
Any Republican rhetoric before the election is just words that are aimed at the electorate. Real Republican policies will be different.
I can tell you for sure that Biden is evil.
What Biden says does not correspond to the cowardly policies he has been pursuing throughout his tenure. And I am not the electorate that listens to lies and believes them. I'm only looking at Biden's actual policies. And his policy is very bad.
____

Again. I don't care what Biden says or what Republican Trump supporters say. I look only at the actual policies that they pursue or do not interfere with. Biden is pursuing cowardly and ineffective policies. This means Biden’s place is in prison, and certainly not as president.
Don’t try to scare me with the words of some Republicans, this is all drivel. Word and deed are completely different things in politics.
When a Republican becomes President of the United States, only then and not before, will I start writing something about the Republicans.
The point of any election is to remove ineffective politicians from power. Biden has proven himself ineffective.
Of course, Biden still has time before the election, he can still change opinions like mine. But anyway, I think he's an ass.hole.  >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 26, 2023, 04:09
The Ukrainian Armed Forces today liquidated the Russian landing ship Novocherkassk in the Black Sea.
 ;D ;D ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-mF_YIpZ8o (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-mF_YIpZ8o)
Burns well.  ;D

The technical characteristics of the ship can be viewed here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_landing_ship_Novocherkassk (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_landing_ship_Novocherkassk)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 28, 2023, 06:44
Ukraine F-16 Speculation Mounts as Russia Loses 8 Fighter Jets in 3 Weeks

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-f16-russia-fighter-jets-crimea-su34-1855709 (https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-f16-russia-fighter-jets-crimea-su34-1855709)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 28, 2023, 06:46
FPV of the 47th Brigade of Ukraine makes Russian BTR-82A disappear. Stepove area, Avdiivka front
 ;D ;D ;D

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1740291577535431140 (https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1740291577535431140)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 28, 2023, 10:41
According to public opinion polls, the number of Democratic Party supporters in the United States who support Palestine (which is equal to Hamas) is growing - about 49% of them, with 38% siding with the Israelis. Among Republicans, 11% support Palestine, 78% support Israelis.

This is the information. Maybe US Democrats support the Russians too...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 28, 2023, 11:01
HOW THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION CIRCUMVENTS SANCTIONS FOR THE PRODUCTION OF HIGH-TECH WEAPONS?

https://zn.ua/eng/how-the-russian-federation-circumvents-sanctions-for-the-production-of-high-tech-weapons-.html (https://zn.ua/eng/how-the-russian-federation-circumvents-sanctions-for-the-production-of-high-tech-weapons-.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 28, 2023, 15:04
Of course, Biden still has time before the election, he can still change opinions like mine. But anyway, I think he's an ass.hole.  >:(

Volodymyr Zelenskyy / Володимир Зеленський
@ZelenskyyUa

"I thank @POTUS Joe Biden, Congress, and the American people for the $250 million military aid package announced yesterday.
 
Additional air defense missiles and components, anti-tank weapons, ammunition, mine clearing, and other equipment will cover Ukraine’s most pressing needs.
 
U.S. leadership in the coalition of over 50 countries providing Ukraine with military aid is critical to countering terror and aggression not only in Ukraine but around the world.
 
Over the course of this year, the U.S. has provided 34 military aid packages worth over $24 billion. “Patriots,” "Abrams," armored vehicles, ATACMS, DPICM, air defense, missiles, artillery rounds, mine clearing capabilities, and other critical equipment. A historic decision to provide Ukraine with F-16 jets was made. We will always be grateful for all of this support.
 
To defend freedom and security not only in Ukraine and Europe but also in the United States, we must continue to respond to ongoing Russian aggression in the most forceful and resolute manner possible
"

You're welcome!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 28, 2023, 15:19
Maybe US Democrats support the Russians too...
As usual, you are severely misinformed:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/513680/american-views-ukraine-war-charts.aspx

DO your homework before posting crap:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 29, 2023, 09:03
Of course, Biden still has time before the election, he can still change opinions like mine. But anyway, I think he's an ass.hole.  >:(

Volodymyr Zelenskyy / Володимир Зеленський
@ZelenskyyUa

"I thank @POTUS Joe Biden, Congress, and the American people for the $250 million military aid package announced yesterday.
 
Additional air defense missiles and components, anti-tank weapons, ammunition, mine clearing, and other equipment will cover Ukraine’s most pressing needs.
 
U.S. leadership in the coalition of over 50 countries providing Ukraine with military aid is critical to countering terror and aggression not only in Ukraine but around the world.
 
Over the course of this year, the U.S. has provided 34 military aid packages worth over $24 billion. “Patriots,” "Abrams," armored vehicles, ATACMS, DPICM, air defense, missiles, artillery rounds, mine clearing capabilities, and other critical equipment. A historic decision to provide Ukraine with F-16 jets was made. We will always be grateful for all of this support.
 
To defend freedom and security not only in Ukraine and Europe but also in the United States, we must continue to respond to ongoing Russian aggression in the most forceful and resolute manner possible
"

You're welcome!
You recently referred to this diplomatic speech by Zelenskyy. If US Democrats continue to refer to this speech, then they think Ukrainians are idiots.
All these weapons were provided in single quantities, insufficient even for normal defense.
At the moment, the United States has not delivered a single F16.
And these measly 250 million dollars. Well, soon we will see how the same Germany will try to fight the Russians with these 250 million dollars a month or 3 months.
In general, everything is clear with you Democrats. I wish the Republicans victory in the elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 29, 2023, 09:09
Maybe US Democrats support the Russians too...
As usual, you are severely misinformed:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/513680/american-views-ukraine-war-charts.aspx

DO your homework before posting crap:
I asked a question. You didn't answer it. I'll repeat the question. What percentage of Democrats support Palestine and Hamas?
I wrote a figure - 49%. Among Republicans, only 11% support Palestine.

As for all these graphs, they are not informative. If the question is posed correctly, Republicans are not against providing assistance to Ukraine.
Ukraine has already seen pathetic military assistance from the Democrats. The whole world saw what could lead the United States to the loss of allies. Let's see what policies the Republicans will pursue. If of course they can win.

In any case, even if support for Ukraine from the Democratic electorate is normal, the party itself is pursuing ineffective and bad policies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 29, 2023, 09:38
Again... denying the evidence even when it's screaming in your face.

You refuse to acknowldge and be grateful for the many, many billions of dollars in military aid donated from US taxpayers' money to Ukraine.

You refuse to acknowledge that a growing majority of the Republican electorate and their elected representatives are anti-Ukraine and will offer putin what he wants, as soon as they will win the White House.
 
You are also questioning the integrity of the most prestigious polling company in the world, Gallup, when it doesn't fit your preconceived opinions. Nice!  ::)

Get your head out of the sand and admit your mistakes!

I thought that you cared mainly about the aid for Ukraine, but if Palestine is more important for you, then you are right about it: the same Gallup polls (you deny their veridicity when it comes to Ukraine), are confirming your statement about Palestine. See attached.

So you may have to choose: either Gallup is wrong on both, or right on both.  ;)
What I can tell you from inside the American society, is that they are right on both.

The fact is that a significant percentage of democrats have marxist views (especially the vocal extreme left), and they tend to support "the little man", even when "the little man" is a terrorist, unfortunately.
In their view, Ukraine is "the little man" when facing russia, and the Palestinians are "the little man" when facing Israel.

This is of course only my opinion, there may be other explanations, but the facts shown by the data remain true, even if you deny them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 29, 2023, 09:53
Again... denying the evidence even when it's screaming in your face.

You refuse to ackowldge and be grateful for the many, many billions of dollars in military aid donated from US taxpayers' money to Ukraine.

You refuse to ackowledge that a growing majority of the Republican electorate and their elected representatives are anti-Ukraine and will offer putin what he wants, as soon as they will win the White House.
 
You are also questioning the integrity of the most prestigious polling company in the world, Gallup, when it doesn't fit your preconceived opinions. Nice!  ::)

Get your head out of the sand and admit your mistakes!

I thought that you cared mainly about the aid for Ukraine, but if Palestine is more important for you, then you are right about it: the same Gallup polls (you deny their veridicity when it comes to Ukraine), are confirming your statement about Palestine. See attached.

So you may have to choose: either Gallup is wrong on both, or right on both.  ;)
What I can tell you from inside the American society, is that they are right on both.

The fact is that a significant percentage of democrats have marxist views (especially the vocal extreme left), and they tend to support "the little man", even when "the little man" is a terrorist, unfortunately.
In their view, Ukraine is "the little man" when facing russia, and the Palestinians are "the little man" when facing Israel.

This is of course only my opinion, there may be other explanations, but the facts shown by the data remain true, even if you deny them.

Of course, I don't know the objective truth either. But I do believe that your thesis that Democrats support "the little man" may be true.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 29, 2023, 10:07

Of course, I don't know the objective truth either. But I do believe that your thesis that Democrats support "the little man" may be true.

I also believe that the strong Republican support for Israel is driven by religion more than anything else, since the strong evangelical base of the Republican party is pro-Israel, pro-Judeo-Cristianity, no matter what (and anti-Islam, especially the far-right).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 29, 2023, 12:19

Of course, I don't know the objective truth either. But I do believe that your thesis that Democrats support "the little man" may be true.

I also believe that the strong Republican support for Israel is driven by religion more than anything else, since the strong evangelical base of the Republican party is pro-Israel, pro-Judeo-Cristianity, no matter what (and anti-Islam, especially the far-right).


Yes, I can well imagine that this is also correct.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on December 29, 2023, 12:28
In too many cases, unfortunately, religion - especially the overly strict or incorrect interpretation of religion - is the cause of long and intense wars. In my view, this cannot be the intention of God, Allah, Buddha, Hinduism or other religions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 30, 2023, 05:32
Again... denying the evidence even when it's screaming in your face.

You refuse to acknowldge and be grateful for the many, many billions of dollars in military aid donated from US taxpayers' money to Ukraine.

You refuse to acknowledge that a growing majority of the Republican electorate and their elected representatives are anti-Ukraine and will offer putin what he wants, as soon as they will win the White House.
You write the full drivel. It's all a lie. Stop listening to the *insult removed* Biden and the Marxist Democrats.

Of course Biden is spending money to “help” Ukraine. But little money goes directly to military aid and weapons are supplied in minuscule quantities. The necessary weapons are not supplied at all.
The United States, under the leadership of Marxist democrats, is doing everything to ensure that all of Europe will soon be occupied by the Russians.
Fuck the Democrats! Fuck Biden!

The fact is that a significant percentage of democrats have marxist views
Fuck the Democrats!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 30, 2023, 05:36
pro-Judeo-Cristianity
:o :o ??? ???
How is that? what's this?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 30, 2023, 05:38
Of course, I don't know the objective truth either. But I do believe that your thesis that Democrats support "the little man" may be true.
In this topic I do not write about US citizens. I write about politicians who carry out policies. And I write that the policies of the Democrats are criminal and cowardly. Biden, their leader, is a dealer in Ukrainian blood. The more blood, the better for the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 30, 2023, 05:44
29.12.2023

This was reported in Telegram by the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valerii Zaluzhnyi.

The enemy launched a massive missile attack on Ukraine at night. Critical infrastructure, industrial and military facilities were attacked. There are dead and injured.

At first, the invaders traditionally attacked with Shahed drones from the north and southeast, with further movement in the western direction. A total of 36 Shahed-136/131 attack UAVs were spotted, Zaluzhnyi noted.

Around 3:00, the enemy launched strategic aviation - Tu-95MS bombers. In total, 18 aircraft reached the launch line around 6:00 and launched at least 90 X-101/X-555/X-55 air-launched cruise missiles.

From the Kursk region, at about 5:00, the Russians used Tu-22M3 long-range bombers to launch eight X-22/X-32 cruise missiles in the direction of the northern and central regions.

At the same time, the enemy attacked Kharkiv with S-300 anti-aircraft guided missiles. In total, they fired at least 14 missiles flying along the ballistic trajectory - S-300/S-400/Iskander-M from the temporarily occupied Crimea, Kursk and Belgorod regions of the Russian Federation.

At 6:30 a.m., five MiG-31K fighter jets took off and launched five X-47M2 Kinzhal aeroballistic missiles from the Astrakhan region of the Russian Federation.

The Russians also used four X-31P and one X-59 anti-aircraft missiles from Su-35 tactical aircraft.

According to preliminary results, last night, Russian troops used 158 air attack weapons against Ukraine: missiles of various types and strike UAVs.

__________

These are the results of the criminal policies of Biden and the Democrats. Let me remind you that a full-scale Russian offensive on Ukraine has been going on for 2 years now. Biden, a bas.tard and a cow.ard, has still not transferred aviation and missiles to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 30, 2023, 06:19
Biden's cowardly policies have already led to Europe beginning to prepare for war.

Dutch Commander-in-Chief calls on Netherlands to prepare for war with russia

Lieutenant-General Martin Wijnen, Commander-in-Chief of the Netherlands Army, who will be leaving his post in 2024, says the Netherlands and its society must prepare for a war with the Russian Federation.

Source: Wijnen in an interview for De Telegraaf, as reported by NL Times

Quote: "The Netherlands should be seriously afraid of war, and our society should prepare for it."

Details: Wijnen believes The Hague should follow the example of Sweden, Finland and the Baltic countries, since they border russia or are close to it, so they are better prepared for an outbreak of war.

"The Netherlands needs to learn that the entire society needs to be prepared for when things go wrong. The Netherlands should not think our safety is guaranteed because we are 1,500 kilometres away [from russia – ed.]," Wijnen said, adding that civilians should have stocks of food and drinking water for emergencies.

The top general warned that russia keeps getting stronger, so a strong army is needed as a deterrent.

"There is only one language that russia understands, and that is one of a strong military," Wijnen stated, stressing the importance of solving the problem of personnel shortage in the Dutch armed forces.

Wijnen said he has great expectations of a one-year voluntary service initiative for young people that was implemented following a similar programme in Sweden. He hopes to attract two to three thousand young people each year, a third of whom are likely to choose a career in the army and another third to become reservists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on December 30, 2023, 07:45
pro-Judeo-Cristianity
:o :o ??? ???
How is that? what's this?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on December 31, 2023, 10:28
So. For some it may be holidays and Christmas. And in Ukraine it’s like this:

(https://i.ibb.co/m8bRvbH/IMG-3106.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/4YytVNP/IMG-3105.jpg)

(https://i.ibb.co/8sxqtPN/IMG-3101.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 01, 2024, 05:47
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/SBandera.jpg)

January 1, 2024 marks the 115th anniversary of one of the most famous fighters for the independence of Ukraine in the 20th century, Stepan Bandera.
All Russians, at the mention of just his name, are filled with fear and horror.  ;D 8) ;D 8)


Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on January 01, 2024, 05:58
Stepan Bandera.
All Russians, at the mention of just his name, are filled with fear and horror.  ;D 8) ;D 8)
All normal people are filled with disgust at the mention of this nazzi maniac and sadist.

"At least 300 thousand people fell victim to Banderite terror in the 1940s. In 1943 alone, the UPA massacred 80,000 Poles and members of Ukrainian-Polish families during the so-called Volyn [Wołyń] Massacre. Banderites carried out ethnic cleansing killing mostly defenseless civilians—both Poles and Ukrainians who refused to support Bandera’s OUN."

Stepan Bandera, the Cat Strangler
https://ninabyzantina.com/2023/03/02/stepan-bandera-the-cat-strangler/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 01, 2024, 16:25
https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/01/01/a-new-years-interview-with-volodymr-zelensky (https://www.economist.com/europe/2024/01/01/a-new-years-interview-with-volodymr-zelensky)

A New Year’s interview with Volodymyr Zelensky

https://youtu.be/I4ZRw96TP8Q (https://youtu.be/I4ZRw96TP8Q)


A lot of interesting things have been said, I recommend listening or reading.

"British defence intelligence sources estimate that, on current trends, russia will have suffered more than 500,000 casualties, killed and wounded, by 2025."  8)

“putin feels weakness like an animal, because he is an animal. He senses blood, he senses his strength. And he will eat you for dinner with all your eu, nato, freedom, and democracy.”
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 01, 2024, 17:40
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/SBandera.jpg)

January 1, 2024 marks the 115th anniversary of one of the most famous fighters for the independence of Ukraine in the 20th century, Stepan Bandera.
All Russians, at the mention of just his name, are filled with fear and horror.  ;D 8) ;D 8)


Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!

Bandera is obviously part of the whole problem.

On the one hand, Russia's propaganda is misusing his historical role for its own purposes.

On the other hand, I see no reason whatsoever for you to cast this person in such an important light here. The man was certainly not a personality to be celebrated - on the contrary.

Bandera strove for an "ethnically pure" Ukraine. Just as Putin now obviously wants an "ethnically pure Russian" Ukraine.

Personally, this kind of thinking is a thorn in my side!
No matter which side it comes from!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 01, 2024, 18:12
I agree, Wilm.
However, one must remember that ethnic or racial purity was the zeitgeist back then, more or less across the world, from many European countries, to the Americas, and all the way to Australia.

What happened then is important for understanding history, but it matters much less than what happens now, under our eyes.

It is so precious to see russians accusing a dead man (murdered by the KGB) of fascism, a man who fought against the soviet imperialism and colonialism, without realizing that their own country is ruled, today, by a fascist regime and a ruthless fascist leader.

I mentioned it before, but is important to mention it again: these are the main boxes checked by all fascist regimes:
- Authoritarian leader
- Supression of the oposition
- Submission of the ecomomy to the will of the government.
- Submission of the justice system to the will of the government.
- Suppresion of the free press and free speech
- Aggresive nationalist and cult of personality propaganda.
- Aggression against other sovereign nations

In other words, there is little difference between communism and fascism. The only difference is their position on the private property
The communists are confiscating it, while the fascists are tolerating it, as long as the owner is executing the orders of the fascist government.

russia checks ALL boxes.

russia simply switched from communism to fascism, from stalin to putin. The only difference between stalin and putin is the number of murders. putin has not achieved the millions of killings of his predecessor, but he is working his way through...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 02, 2024, 04:40
Bandera is obviously part of the whole problem.
Certainly. Because he is a hero of Ukraine and an enemy of the Russian empire.

On the one hand, Russia's propaganda is misusing his historical role for its own purposes.
Yes, the Na.zis from the KGB chose him as one of many Ukrainian heroes, demonized him and continue to demonize him. Russian orcs have come up with a lot of myths about him and continue propaganda against him.
Bandera is also very disliked in Poland. In those years, part of Ukraine was also under Polish occupation, and Bandera also fought against Poland.

On the other hand, I see no reason whatsoever for you to cast this person in such an important light here. The man was certainly not a personality to be celebrated - on the contrary.
He is a hero of Ukraine. One of many heroes. I think that the whole world should know the Ukrainian hero, whom Russian orcs are terribly afraid of. Even the dead Bandera evokes animal fear among Russians. Although Russians are animals, they cannot be called people.

Bandera strove for an "ethnically pure" Ukraine. Just as Putin now obviously wants an "ethnically pure Russian" Ukraine.
Personally, this kind of thinking is a thorn in my side!
No matter which side it comes from!
These are Russian propaganda narratives.
Bandera was a revolutionary and fought for the independence of Ukraine from Russia and Poland.
There is no need to read what Russian orcs write about him or what other authors bought by Russians write about him. You need to read what Bandera himself wrote personally. For example, there is his book “Prospects for the Ukrainian Revolution.” This is a collection of articles by Stepan Bandera, published in Munich in 1978.
If you read this book, you will immediately understand what Bandera fought for and why he fought.
Bandera did not strive for an "ethnically pure" Ukraine.
Bandera considered it necessary to ensure for national minorities full and comprehensive equality in all civil rights and full freedom of national development, in accordance with international principles regarding national minorities. Provided that the national minorities will be loyal to the Ukrainian State.
Bandera declared that the Ukrainian nationalist movement had nothing to do with Na.zi.sm, fas.cism or National Socialism. He consistently opposed totalitarianism, imperialism, racism, and communism.

His words are still relevant today. Here is what he wrote:
"For our liberation policy, it is important that the Ukrainian liberation revolution be fully evaluated as a continuation of Ukraine's historical struggle with Moscow, with Moscow imperialism, and that of all types, not only Bolshevik. This struggle will not stop until the full realization of our goal, which is a complete break between Ukraine and Moscow, the rebuilding of the Independent Ukrainian State, the collapse of the USSR and the building of independent national states in post-Soviet Europe and Asia, the complete defeat of Russian imperialism and the creation of such a system of states around Russia, locked in its own borders, that it could not to act more with imperialist aggression. And further, so that the world knows that Ukraine will continue the struggle against all forces that would like to enslave it, destroy its state independence and sovereignty, or that would encroach on Ukrainian lands."

Against whom is the fury of Putin and other enemies of Ukraine most directed? Against Stepan Bandera. Even in heaven he does not give them peace. Why? Because Bandera and the people of Bandera destroyed their plan to destroy Ukraine and colonize Ukraine, erasing our identity. Bandera is still important today. Because it is a symbol of Freedom, truth and Victories.

Bandera is about the fact that Ukrainians will resist even in a seemingly hopeless situation. Bandera is about the huge potential of relying on one's own forces, the potential that is currently the basis of successful resistance to Russian aggression, which is changing the geopolitical position of Ukraine in the world. Bandera is about the long game, about faith in people and their efforts to defend freedom. Bandera is about the death of the Russian Empire and the victory of Ukraine.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 02, 2024, 07:18
The Russians continue the genocide of Ukraine.

russia launched a massive missile attack on Ukraine on the morning of January 2 following a nighttime drone attack. The cities of Kyiv and Kharkiv were hit the most. In the capital, destruction and fires were reported in nine districts.

https://youtu.be/j09AEnPeQFM (https://youtu.be/j09AEnPeQFM)

____
Biden * and *, where is the aviation? Where are the rockets?

This is how US Democrats are implementing the security guarantees given to Ukraine according to the Budapest Memorandum.

Taiwan, Europe, Israel! Look at the USA, at the cowards of the Democrats, this is the level of assistance, almost zero. Biden is doing everything to prevent the Russians from losing the war. The policies of the Democrats will lead to the occupation of Ukraine. Then the Russians and China will occupy Europe, Taiwan and further down the list.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 02, 2024, 07:22
russia simply switched from communism to fascism
The Russian Empire is not only a fascist state, but also a Na.zi one.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 02, 2024, 08:53
russia simply switched from communism to fascism
The Russian Empire is not only a fascist state, but also a Na.zi one.

These two go hand in hand. There is basicaly no difference between na,zis and fascists. There is only a small difference on how they reached their joint ideology.
Na,zis emerged from a socialist branch, while fascists emerged as an union, a syndicate confederation. Socialists rely heavily on unions anyway, so fundamentaly, they have this in common too.
These days, you can use both terms to describe the regimes of hitler, mussolini, putin... all matching all prerequisites listed above.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 02, 2024, 14:36
Bandera is obviously part of the whole problem.
Certainly. Because he is a hero of Ukraine and an enemy of the Russian empire.

On the one hand, Russia's propaganda is misusing his historical role for its own purposes.
Yes, the Na.zis from the KGB chose him as one of many Ukrainian heroes, demonized him and continue to demonize him. Russian orcs have come up with a lot of myths about him and continue propaganda against him.
Bandera is also very disliked in Poland. In those years, part of Ukraine was also under Polish occupation, and Bandera also fought against Poland.

On the other hand, I see no reason whatsoever for you to cast this person in such an important light here. The man was certainly not a personality to be celebrated - on the contrary.
He is a hero of Ukraine. One of many heroes. I think that the whole world should know the Ukrainian hero, whom Russian orcs are terribly afraid of. Even the dead Bandera evokes animal fear among Russians. Although Russians are animals, they cannot be called people.

Bandera strove for an "ethnically pure" Ukraine. Just as Putin now obviously wants an "ethnically pure Russian" Ukraine.
Personally, this kind of thinking is a thorn in my side!
No matter which side it comes from!
These are Russian propaganda narratives.
Bandera was a revolutionary and fought for the independence of Ukraine from Russia and Poland.
There is no need to read what Russian orcs write about him or what other authors bought by Russians write about him. You need to read what Bandera himself wrote personally. For example, there is his book “Prospects for the Ukrainian Revolution.” This is a collection of articles by Stepan Bandera, published in Munich in 1978.
If you read this book, you will immediately understand what Bandera fought for and why he fought.
Bandera did not strive for an "ethnically pure" Ukraine.
Bandera considered it necessary to ensure for national minorities full and comprehensive equality in all civil rights and full freedom of national development, in accordance with international principles regarding national minorities. Provided that the national minorities will be loyal to the Ukrainian State.
Bandera declared that the Ukrainian nationalist movement had nothing to do with Na.zi.sm, fas.cism or National Socialism. He consistently opposed totalitarianism, imperialism, racism, and communism.

His words are still relevant today. Here is what he wrote:
"For our liberation policy, it is important that the Ukrainian liberation revolution be fully evaluated as a continuation of Ukraine's historical struggle with Moscow, with Moscow imperialism, and that of all types, not only Bolshevik. This struggle will not stop until the full realization of our goal, which is a complete break between Ukraine and Moscow, the rebuilding of the Independent Ukrainian State, the collapse of the USSR and the building of independent national states in post-Soviet Europe and Asia, the complete defeat of Russian imperialism and the creation of such a system of states around Russia, locked in its own borders, that it could not to act more with imperialist aggression. And further, so that the world knows that Ukraine will continue the struggle against all forces that would like to enslave it, destroy its state independence and sovereignty, or that would encroach on Ukrainian lands."

Against whom is the fury of Putin and other enemies of Ukraine most directed? Against Stepan Bandera. Even in heaven he does not give them peace. Why? Because Bandera and the people of Bandera destroyed their plan to destroy Ukraine and colonize Ukraine, erasing our identity. Bandera is still important today. Because it is a symbol of Freedom, truth and Victories.

Bandera is about the fact that Ukrainians will resist even in a seemingly hopeless situation. Bandera is about the huge potential of relying on one's own forces, the potential that is currently the basis of successful resistance to Russian aggression, which is changing the geopolitical position of Ukraine in the world. Bandera is about the long game, about faith in people and their efforts to defend freedom. Bandera is about the death of the Russian Empire and the victory of Ukraine.

Once again, this shows your stereotypical and generalized view of things and your lack of objective judgement. Exactly what you accuse others of is also your problem. Unfortunately, you are not in a position to recognize this. I therefore stand by the statement I made many pages ago: I am glad that you do not have a leading role on the world political stage.

One of these new dangerous minds in terms of global political developments has been put in his place today. The Israeli Supreme Court has managed to prevent worse things from happening by Netanyahu and his closest allies. I have also seen slightly positive trends in Poland recently. At least small rays of hope in an otherwise dire global political development.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 03, 2024, 06:48
Wilm, you are a victim of Russian propaganda. Actually, like all Germans. You have a high chance of seeing Russian orcs and Russian tanks on the streets of your cities.

Wilm, learn to write using arguments. Few people are interested in reading the slogans and narratives of Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 03, 2024, 06:59
One of these new dangerous minds in terms of global political developments has been put in his place today. The Israeli Supreme Court has managed to prevent worse things from happening by Netanyahu and his closest allies. I have also seen slightly positive trends in Poland recently. At least small rays of hope in an otherwise dire global political development.
And this is generally delirium and ravings. Any psychiatrist would have already diagnosed you.
Did you even understand what you wrote?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 03, 2024, 16:15
https://twitter.com/sikorskiradek/status/1742421553206182306 (https://twitter.com/sikorskiradek/status/1742421553206182306)

Radosław Sikorski
@sikorskiradek
We should respond to the latest onslaught on Ukraine in language that Putin understands: by tightening sanctions so that he cannot make new weapons with smuggled components and by giving Kyiv long range missiles that will enable it to take out launch sites and command centers.

+100

______
Biden! Resign. Give power to the Republicans!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 03, 2024, 16:57


.... Few people are interested in reading the slogans and narratives of Russian propaganda.

Interesting (and very lonely) point of view. We are now on page 81 of your tireless postings. On the whole, I personally don't get the impression that anyone likes or shares your opinion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 03, 2024, 17:59
Wilm, you are a victim of Russian propaganda. Actually, like all Germans. You have a high chance of seeing Russian orcs and Russian tanks on the streets of your cities.

Wilm, learn to write using arguments. Few people are interested in reading the slogans and narratives of Russian propaganda.

Yes, I know: my view of the world is unrealistic and difficult to understand.

Of course, it's all much simpler than I see it:
- All Germans are naive and victims of Russian propaganda
- All US Democrats are assholes
- All Russians are killing machines
- All Ukrainians are unreserved Bandera supporters
- and, of course, since I believe Putin without reservation (and he is known to be as free of stereotypical thinking as you are), all Ukrainians are na*is

The world is that simple.

Best wishes from Dilirium!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 04, 2024, 04:02
- All Germans are naive and victims of Russian propaganda
- All US Democrats are assholes
- All Russians are killing machines
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 04, 2024, 04:04
Interesting (and very lonely) point of view. We are now on page 81 of your tireless postings. On the whole, I personally don't get the impression that anyone likes or shares your opinion.
Every week this topic is read by 3 to 4 thousand people. Many people who read it are not registered on this forum. If people are reading this topic, it means they are interested in it.
Everything is simple and logical.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 04, 2024, 06:05
To understand who the Democrats are in the USA. There is such a democrat (probably a friend of the Russians) John Kirby.

The US National Security Council Coordinator John Kirby said US will not be sending Ukraine 🇺🇦 anymore direct military aid until Congress approves funding.

To be clear, the White House has $4 billion of military aid they can send Ukraine, and they’ve decided that it doesn't exist

 >:( >:( >:(

For $4 billion, the cowardly Democrats could: send to Ukraine 200 ATACMS, 15 F-16, 300000 155mm shells, 100000 155mm cluster shells, 200 AMRAAM missiles, 100 Patriot missiles, thousands of cluster missiles, 1000 GMLRS missiles, and still lose half the money.

Democrats are evil and friends of Russian Na.zis.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 04, 2024, 07:00
To understand who the Democrats are in the USA. There is such a democrat (probably a friend of the Russians) John Kirby.

The US National Security Council Coordinator John Kirby said US will not be sending Ukraine 🇺🇦 anymore direct military aid until Congress approves funding.

To be clear, the White House has $4 billion of military aid they can send Ukraine, and they’ve decided that it doesn't exist

 >:( >:( >:(

For $4 billion, the cowardly Democrats could: send to Ukraine 200 ATACMS, 15 F-16, 300000 155mm shells, 100000 155mm cluster shells, 200 AMRAAM missiles, 100 Patriot missiles, thousands of cluster missiles, 1000 GMLRS missiles, and still lose half the money.

Democrats are evil and friends of Russian Na.zis.

You don't want to understand.

"On December 27, the US released a package worth 250 million dollars, the last of its kind for the time being. The background to the impending end of US support for Ukraine is the dispute over the budget. US President Biden had asked Congress in October to provide 61 billion dollars for Ukraine. However, the Republicans in the Senate are currently blocking this. Many of them are skeptical about the aid for Ukraine and some want to achieve stricter measures at the US external borders through their blockade."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 04, 2024, 07:45
On December 27, the US released a package worth 250 million dollars
Let Biden shove that $250 million up his ass.
For the rest, re-read what I wrote 3 more times. Ukraine does not need money, Ukraine needs weapons, which this friend of the Russians, Biden, does not want to give.
On this forum I explain what is written in the press and how it should be understood correctly.

I am sure that all the small military assistance that Biden provided over 2 years, he provided mainly at the request of the Republicans. If there were no Republicans, there would be no military aid to Ukraine. Now Biden had excuses, the Republicans began to set conditions, and Biden decided that now there was no need to send weapons to Ukraine.
I am amazed at the patience of the Republicans these 2 years. Biden spent billions of dollars sending weapons that were ineffective and in small quantities to Ukraine.
My verdict, Biden belongs in prison.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 04, 2024, 09:36
- All Ukrainians are unreserved Bandera supporters
+100
Yes it's true. All Ukrainians who are not influenced by Russian propaganda consider Bandera the hero of Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVTZ4z-Qrm0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVTZ4z-Qrm0)

https://youtu.be/kFaJq7hirkA (https://youtu.be/kFaJq7hirkA)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jse8XULqjX8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jse8XULqjX8)

https://youtu.be/jpGem7-LRoI (https://youtu.be/jpGem7-LRoI)

Heroes don't die! Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 05, 2024, 14:26
PUTIN SET HIS SIGHTS ON EUROPE. WHICH NATO COUNTRIES WILL HE ATTACK AFTER UKRAINE?

During Russia's massive missile attack on Ukrainian cities, Poland scrambled two pairs of F-16 fighters. So far, the Poles have limited themselves to this. But they are bracing themselves for the worst. After all, the countries of Western and Eastern Europe may be the next to fall prey to Russia's aggression.

....

However, putin's most likely military target today is not the Netherlands, Finland or Poland, but the Baltic states. On the one hand, the Russian leadership cannot forgive Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia (one of the first republics of the USSR to declare their independence) for the events of 1990. On the other hand, the Kremlin fears the transformation of the Baltic Sea into an “internal NATO sea” after Finland and Sweden join the Alliance. To “open a window to Europe,” putin is ready to follow in Stalin's footsteps and occupy the Baltic states.

The scenario of a Russian attack on these Baltic countries looks realistic not only because they have weak armed forces, but also because there is no 100% certainty that NATO will apply Article 5. The Kremlin belligerence is fueled by both the prospect of Donald Trump's return to the White House and the threat of the US leaving NATO, as well as the apparent organizational and technical unpreparedness of the West for a prolonged armed confrontation in the conditions of a modern war.

As it turned out, states members of the Alliance, which do not even participate in the hostilities, do not have enough ammunition and equipment to fully support Ukraine in a high-intensity war. Restarting the defense industry requires time and money. Our Western partners are slowly bestirring themselves, stepping up the production of tanks, air defense systems, artillery and ammunition, which are so necessary for us to confront the aggressor effectively. And most NATO countries have not yet reached the stated level of military spending of 2% of GDP.

putin's confidence in his own strength is growing against the background of political disagreements in the US and the EU regarding support for Ukraine and increasingly loud calls for negotiations with Russia and freezing the conflict. Of course, in Moscow, they cannot help but rejoice at the results of polls of Western Europeans, which show an extremely low willingness of the population of EU countries to defend their country in the event of an attack.

For instance, according to the results of polls by the German publication Stern and the Polish Rzeczpospolita, only one in sixth Germans (17%) and Poles (15%) are ready to fight for their country. At the same time, 19% of Germans said that they are probably ready to defend the country, while a staggering 61% (!) replied they were “probably” or “under no circumstances” ready. In Poland, 29% are ready to volunteer, for example, in a hospital, and 15.7% – in the army, but as volunteers, 25.5% of respondents intend to leave for a safe regions of the country, and 11.9% plan to move with their family abroad. 22% will not do anything, and 11.6% do not know what they will do.

The Kremlin's hands are untied by the West's lack of determination to respond to Russian missiles and drones flying into Poland and Romania. Of course, one cannot rule out an accidental rocket attack on their territory. But there are also suspicions that in this way Russia conducts both a practical reconnaissance of the air defense capabilities of NATO member countries and a test of the country's political leadership for the ability to respond to threats appropriately.

In response to similar incidents, Warsaw and Bucharest still prefer to summon ambassadors and express their concern: Washington imposes an anti-escalation model of behavior on NATO's eastern wing.
...
However, these estimates are overly optimistic: Europe does not have five or three years. Ukraine believes that a military campaign against the Baltic states can begin as early as 2025, and it is not necessary to freeze the war with Ukraine for an invasion: putin can start a war on several fronts at the same time.
...
Europeans themselves can become the next victims of Russia's attack before they know it.

https://zn.ua/eng/putin-set-his-sights-on-europe-which-nato-countries-will-he-attack-after-ukraine.html (https://zn.ua/eng/putin-set-his-sights-on-europe-which-nato-countries-will-he-attack-after-ukraine.html)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 06, 2024, 04:25
DOES THE USA BELIEVE IN THE VICTORY OF UKRAINE AND WHAT IS BIDEN PLANNING?

https://zn.ua/eng/does-the-usa-believe-in-the-victory-of-ukraine-and-what-is-biden-planning.html (https://zn.ua/eng/does-the-usa-believe-in-the-victory-of-ukraine-and-what-is-biden-planning.html)

An article about why Biden is shitass. It is also written why Republicans are better than Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 06, 2024, 15:03
Ukraine.
Russian tanks, Russian orcs.
 8)

https://t.me/supernova_plus/27071 (https://t.me/supernova_plus/27071)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 06, 2024, 16:10
DOES THE USA BELIEVE IN THE VICTORY OF UKRAINE AND WHAT IS BIDEN PLANNING?

https://zn.ua/eng/does-the-usa-believe-in-the-victory-of-ukraine-and-what-is-biden-planning.html (https://zn.ua/eng/does-the-usa-believe-in-the-victory-of-ukraine-and-what-is-biden-planning.html)

An article about why Biden is shitass. It is also written why Republicans are better than Democrats.

This is the reality (the rest is only speculation and wishful thinking):

..., their colleagues who are less experienced or more eager for media and electoral attention clearly do not think so, operating with a different approach: the harder you hit Ukraine, the tougher you will look in relation to the Biden administration. And this is a serious bid for success among the Republican electorate, which considers the US Democratic Party a greater threat to America than, say, the master of the Kremlin. At Forum 2000, President of the Czech Republic Petr Pavel recounted his conversation with the republican politician, who told him so directly: "I would rather find a common language with Putin than with the Democrats."

That republican politician has the same views as trump, who constantly admired putin.
This "less experienced" (read: morons  ;)) maga faction (the article is failing to ackowledge its relevance) is not a faction anymore. They are already a majority.
They will never switch from their current anti-Ukraine to a pro-Ukraine stance, once they will win the elections.
Hoping for that is a delusion and exactly the definition of "wishful thinking". ::)

Reminder. Today's republican party majority in one image:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dj2e0w9VAAAraKs?format=jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 06, 2024, 18:17
DOES THE USA BELIEVE IN THE VICTORY OF UKRAINE AND WHAT IS BIDEN PLANNING?

https://zn.ua/eng/does-the-usa-believe-in-the-victory-of-ukraine-and-what-is-biden-planning.html (https://zn.ua/eng/does-the-usa-believe-in-the-victory-of-ukraine-and-what-is-biden-planning.html)

An article about why Biden is shitass. It is also written why Republicans are better than Democrats.

This is the reality (the rest is only speculation and wishful thinking):

..., their colleagues who are less experienced or more eager for media and electoral attention clearly do not think so, operating with a different approach: the harder you hit Ukraine, the tougher you will look in relation to the Biden administration. And this is a serious bid for success among the Republican electorate, which considers the US Democratic Party a greater threat to America than, say, the master of the Kremlin. At Forum 2000, President of the Czech Republic Petr Pavel recounted his conversation with the republican politician, who told him so directly: "I would rather find a common language with Putin than with the Democrats."

That republican politician has the same views as trump, who constantly admired putin.
This "less experienced" (read: morons  ;)) maga faction (the article is failing to ackowledge its relevance) is not a faction anymore. They are already a majority.
They will never switch from their current anti-Ukraine to a pro-Ukraine stance, once they will win the elections.
Hoping for that is a delusion and exactly the definition of "wishful thinking". ::)

Reminder. Today's republican party majority in one image:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dj2e0w9VAAAraKs?format=jpg)

I really respect the fact that you want to convince certain people. I have now reached the point where I no longer want to try. It just doesn't make sense - stocker2014 doesn't want to and won't understand. The understanding will only come if the Republicans manage to get into power again.

Then there will be no more money or weapons for Ukraine. Money to pay its own soldiers. Money to maintain Ukraine's infrastructure (energy supply, communications, hospitals, schools, etc.). Then deals will be made with the Russians. And they will not be to Ukraine's advantage.

What stocker2014 actually believes is that the Republicans will supply the weapons he wants. But this will never happen, because the "America First" credo stands in the way. What do the nationalist hardliners care about the fate of Ukraine? They only care about their own country. And the votes that result from this thinking.

And, yes, stocker2014 may be right in one respect: If the Republicans were to come to power, Europe's security might be more at risk and Putin would have an easier game. Putin knows this too - and that is precisely the reason why the Russian trolls will try to support the election of the Republicans - as he has done before.

Best wishes from the Dilirium.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 06, 2024, 20:25
I really respect the fact that you want to convince certain people. I have now reached the point where I no longer want to try. It just doesn't make sense - stocker2014 doesn't want to and won't understand. The understanding will only come if the Republicans manage to get into power again.

Then there will be no more money or weapons for Ukraine. Money to pay its own soldiers. Money to maintain Ukraine's infrastructure (energy supply, communications, hospitals, schools, etc.). Then deals will be made with the Russians. And they will not be to Ukraine's advantage.

What stocker2014 actually believes is that the Republicans will supply the weapons he wants. But this will never happen, because the "America First" credo stands in the way. What do the nationalist hardliners care about the fate of Ukraine? They only care about their own country. And the votes that result from this thinking.

And, yes, stocker2014 may be right in one respect: If the Republicans were to come to power, Europe's security might be more at risk and Putin would have an easier game. Putin knows this too - and that is precisely the reason why the Russian trolls will try to support the election of the Republicans - as he has done before.

Best wishes from the Dilirium.

Wilm, I understand the desperation Ukrainians must go through, seeing themselves attacked by Goliath. I still believe that, helped by true friends, David will prevail.
I'm trying to put myself in their shoes, but it's not always easy. Being exposed to such extreme hardships may easily drive many (like our friend stocker) to some dark places. Hope dies last, and hoping for a "deus ex machina" solution is to be expected.

I also let it slide sometimes, but as a friend of Ukraine, I must remind my Ukrainian friends that "deus ex machina" only happens in theater plays and movies. In real life, not that much.
trump and his maga Republicans will serve Ukraine on a silver platter to putin, only to claim that they stopped WWIII from happening before an emboldened putin gather more resources to attack his next victim: Moldova (to connect Transnistria), and then the Baltics (to connect Kaliningrad)...

This is the real "delirium", the delusion, the wishful thinking we must wake our Ukrainian friends from.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 07, 2024, 04:50
And this is a serious bid for success among the Republican electorate, which considers the US Democratic Party a greater threat to America than, say, the master of the Kremlin.
I will greatly disappoint you all here. But I have also thought so for a long time. And if I lived in the USA, I would wear the same T-shirts too.  ;D ;D ;D
I think history will judge us. And if I'm wrong, I'll admit it.
But Democrats are now doing everything to prevent Trump from reaching the elections and preventing him from running in some states. I don't even know if there will be a Republican candidate to replace Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 07, 2024, 05:02
And, yes, stocker2014 may be right in one respect: If the Republicans were to come to power, Europe's security might be more at risk and Putin would have an easier game. Putin knows this too - and that is precisely the reason why the Russian trolls will try to support the election of the Republicans - as he has done before.
You write something that I didn’t write!
I wrote that democrats pose a threat to Europe and the entire civilized world.
As for Russian trolls, this is how the Russian KGB works. You think the way the KGB wants you to think. In fact, the Russians are trying to support the Republicans only in order to lower their ratings in the United States and other countries, as well as to cause civil conflicts in the United States, which will ultimately weaken America.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 07, 2024, 05:05
Conclusions. At the moment I believe that I see the situation better than others see. I understand perfectly how the KGB works, what methods it uses and what goals it wants to achieve.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 07, 2024, 05:37
And this is a serious bid for success among the Republican electorate, which considers the US Democratic Party a greater threat to America than, say, the master of the Kremlin.
I will greatly disappoint you all here. But I have also thought so for a long time. And if I lived in the USA, I would wear the same T-shirts too.  ;D ;D ;D

That's a great idea. I am sure you can wear one even if you are not living in the US. To paraphrase you: better "orc" than American Democrat. Nice! Seeing it, your fellow Ukrainians will surely love you for your wisdom.

While proudly wearing that t-shirt, ask your prefered "orcs" to assist you in the fight against the "orc" invasion. They will surely help you as much as trump and his maga, "orc" prefering republicans.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on January 07, 2024, 06:58
Why does TSIPsO agent constantly talk about the KGB? Are his instructions that ancient? The KGB was officially dissolved on December 3, 1991.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 07, 2024, 07:43
And this is a serious bid for success among the Republican electorate, which considers the US Democratic Party a greater threat to America than, say, the master of the Kremlin.
I will greatly disappoint you all here. But I have also thought so for a long time. And if I lived in the USA, I would wear the same T-shirts too.  ;D ;D ;D

That's a great idea. I am sure you can wear one even if you are not living in the US. To paraphrase you: better "orc" than American Democrat. Nice! Seeing it, your fellow Ukrainians will surely love you for your wisdom.

While proudly wearing that t-shirt, ask your prefered "orcs" to assist you in the fight against the "orc" invasion. They will surely help you as much as trump and his maga, "orc" prefering republicans.
1. This T-shirt does not reflect the real views of Republicans, but is merely trolling Democrats. You have problems with humor.  ;D
2. In any other civilized country, this will no longer be trolling, but advertising for Russians, for which they will definitely punch you in the face.  ;D
3. And if we get philosophical, I already asked the question, who is worse: the one who kills or the one who looks at the murder process and does not interfere (at the same time has every opportunity to eliminate the killer)?
So the Democrats are watching. Periodically they encourage the victim, even giving the victim a stick against the gun.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 07, 2024, 09:40
1. This T-shirt does not reflect the real views of Republicans

Wishful thinking and refusing to see the reality as it is even when it's screaming in your face. Again.

Even the article you shared is telling you that being anti-Ukraine is key for success with this maga republican electorate, but you only read what is suiting your stubborn beliefs.

Go back and read it again:
"And this is a serious bid for success among the Republican electorate"
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 07, 2024, 10:15
"And this is a serious bid for success among the Republican electorate"
Of course, Republicans criticize everything Democrats do. Democrats do the same. Moreover, Republicans have something to criticize cowardly Democrats for.
The Democrats are their own enemies with their miserable policies.

As I already said, I don’t care what the Republicans say, especially during the election campaign.
What are they assholes these Democrats I have already seen over the past 30 years.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 07, 2024, 13:39
"And this is a serious bid for success among the Republican electorate"
Of course, Republicans criticize everything Democrats do. Democrats do the same. Moreover, Republicans have something to criticize cowardly Democrats for.
The Democrats are their own enemies with their miserable policies.

As I already said, I don’t care what the Republicans say, especially during the election campaign.
What are they assholes these Democrats I have already seen over the past 30 years.

In 12 years of those past 30 years there were republican presidents.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 07, 2024, 14:33
In 12 years of those past 30 years there were republican presidents.
Yes, that's for sure. There is even an opportunity to compare policies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 05:06
Trump's son said very well about the "independence" of democratic media.

"How is it possible that I’ve seen more videos out of this war in Israel in a few hours than I have from Ukraine in almost 2 years???"

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1710652739007484359 (https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1710652739007484359)

+100

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 05:09
The Washington Post - one of the most influential publications in the world - removed the "War in Ukraine" tab from the main page of the site.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 05:10
All that remains is Ukrainian news about the war in Ukraine.

"russia launches nearly 125 missile strikes, over 400 airstrikes on Ukraine last week"
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3810396-russia-launches-nearly-125-missile-strikes-over-400-airstrikes-on-ukraine-last-week.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3810396-russia-launches-nearly-125-missile-strikes-over-400-airstrikes-on-ukraine-last-week.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 05:15
Republicans are talking about why they don't give ass.hole Biden money.

Congress Speaker Johnson backs Kyiv, but questions White House strategy on Ukraine support
Republican voters do not understand the exact purpose of Biden's policy regarding Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Congress Speaker Johnson told CBS.

The Speaker of the House of Representatives of the US Congress, Mike Johnson, voted against approving new military aid to Ukraine because he wanted to "send a message" to the White House, he said in an interview with CBS.

Republicans will be ready to vote for aid as soon as the Joe Biden administration explains to them its strategy regarding Ukraine.

The voters do not understand what exactly is the goal of Biden's policy regarding Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the politician stated.

He also listed the questions he would like answers from the White House: "What is the endgame in Ukraine? What is our strategy? What is the objective?"

Johnson also wants assurances that the US will have "proper oversight" over military aid spending.

The speaker claims that due to the growth of the US national debt, Washington "will have to borrow money from somewhere else" to budget aid to Ukraine and "need accountability for the people who are funding that."

Johnson emphasized that the Republicans in the House of Representatives are not against allocating aid to Ukraine, and recalled that during a meeting with President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, he said that they "stand resolved with the Ukrainian people and with [their] fight for Freedom and against Vladimir Putin who is a ruthless dictator in my view".

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-johnson-house-speaker-face-the-nation-transcript-01-07-2024/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-johnson-house-speaker-face-the-nation-transcript-01-07-2024/)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 05:17
Republicans! Impeach Biden and put him in jail!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 08, 2024, 06:04
Trump's son said very well about the "independence" of democratic media.

"How is it possible that I’ve seen more videos out of this war in Israel in a few hours than I have from Ukraine in almost 2 years???"

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1710652739007484359 (https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1710652739007484359)

+100

I can answer that question for him. He is obviously very one-sided when it comes to his media consumption.

However, it is important to note that he did not say that there have been more videos about the war in Israel in the last two years than about the war in Ukraine. This is suggestive rhetoric that many people fall for. He worded it so cleverly that many readers take it as a fact - so he could always talk his way out of a fact check. It seems to run in the family with the Trumps.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 08, 2024, 06:05
Republicans! Impeach Biden and put him in jail!

In my view, this is really good proof of your attitude to democracy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 06:29
Republicans! Impeach Biden and put him in jail!

In my view, this is really good proof of your attitude to democracy.
Republicans also support democracy. In the USA there is a big difference between such a concept as democracy and democrats. There is no need to put equality between democracy and only Democrats in the United States.
It is correct to write that I think poorly of the Democrats USA, but I support democracy.
Although, I also believe that during the Third World War democracy could be partially stopped.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 06:44
As Zero Talent said here, democrats are 45-50% Marxists, communists, which is equal to supporters of Russian Na_zis. Personally, I think that Democratic politicians are also cowards and ass.holes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 08, 2024, 06:49
Trump's son said very well about the "independence" of democratic media.

"How is it possible that I’ve seen more videos out of this war in Israel in a few hours than I have from Ukraine in almost 2 years???"

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1710652739007484359 (https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1710652739007484359)

+100

Why does the son of Trump think other people are resposible for what kind of videos he watches?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 07:38
I also wrote here not long ago my opinion that there is much more media attention to Israel than to Ukraine.
Why did I quote Trump’s son, because many here believe that Trump is against Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 08, 2024, 10:14
As Zero Talent said here, democrats are 45-50% Marxists, communists, which is equal to supporters of Russian Na_zis. Personally, I think that Democratic politicians are also cowards and ass.holes.

This is not what I said. Go back and check.

What I said that the Democrats with marxist views tend to support "the little man". This is why this vocal faction is supporting both UKRAINE (not na.zi russia as you imply) and Palestine, both being perceived as "the little man", in front of big powers like russia and Israel.

I can also say that maga republicans (and their cult leader, trump) have a nationalist-populist ideology, close to the russian nationalist-populist ideology. This is why trump is admiring putin, and his maga voters would rather get along with na.zi russia, than with their fellow Americans from the Democratic party.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 15:12
What I said that the Democrats with marxist views
You don't have to continue any further. Marxist views were very popular in the USSR and now in the Russian Empire there is also a communist party that supports putin.
I am writing their slogan: “Marxists of all countries, unite!”
In general, you yourself in the USA, of course, support the Marxists and the crappy policies of the Democrats.
There is nothing in common between Republicans and Russians, no matter what Trump says.
By democrats I mean both politicians and their electorates. By Republicans, I also mean both politicians and their electorate.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 08, 2024, 15:56
In case you didn't realize, lately, marxist views are (unfortunately), popular again, not just in the US, but across the whole Europe. All socialist, social-democrat, democrat parties, green parties, etc... have marxist views.

The "woke" movement is in fact a sexo-marxist movement.

Even liberal parties (which are supposed to sit on the right, in Europe) have marxist views.

This trend is more dominant among the young generation, among those who didn't experience marxism in full action, when half of Europe was a soviet colony. They are reinventing the wheel, thinking that they know how to make marxism work. There is no such thing. The result will be the same disaster, everybody will end up equally poor.

Even in this forum, a large majority of the opinions are marxist. Many contributors see themselves as "the little man" "exploited" by big corporations.

And fyi, I am totally against marxism, since I experienced its utopia in real life. As much as feasible, I want free markets, freedom and liberties with minimal government intervention in people's lives.

Too bad you refuse to see the obvious: trump's maga national-populism and putin's "russkiy mir" national-populism are much closer than you are ready to admit.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 08, 2024, 16:34
In case you didn't realize, lately, marxist views are (unfortunately), popular again, not just in the US, but across the whole Europe. All socialist, social-democrat, democrat parties, green parties, etc... have marxist views.

The "woke" movement is in fact a sexo-marxist movement.

Even liberal parties (which are supposed to sit on the right, in Europe) have marxist views.

This trend is more dominant among the young generation, among those who didn't experience marxism in full action, when half of Europe was a soviet colony. They are reinventing the wheel, thinking that they know how to make marxism work. There is no such thing. The result will be the same disaster, everybody will end up equally poor.

Even in this forum, a large majority of the opinions are marxist. Many contributors see themselves as "the little man" "exploited" by big corporations.

And fyi, I am totally against marxism, since I experienced its utopia in real life. As much as feasible, I want free markets, freedom and liberties with minimal government intervention in people's lives.

Too bad you refuse to see the obvious: trump's maga national-populism and putin's "russkiy mir" national-populism are much closer than you are ready to admit.
This is all the result of the work of the KGB and Russian propaganda. All this makes it easier for the Russians to occupy Europe.
Your views are consistent with those of most Republicans. You are not a democrat.

It doesn’t matter who Trump is, in the USA one person cannot break anything. The USA is not the Russian empire.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 08, 2024, 16:41
Your views are consistent with those of most Republicans. You are not a democrat.

No. You are wrong, my views are closer (but not identical) to the Old School Republicans views, from the economy point of view.

Unfortunately they are a minority these days: trump's maga national-populist cult hijacked the GoP. Old School Republicans are ridiculed by the cult of maga, being called RINOs (Republicans In Name Only)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_in_Name_Only

I also told you that, but you systematically refuse to ackowledge the evidence and change your preconceptions.

However, I believe that Old School Republicans, are relying too much on religious "teachings", being too restrictive on personal freedoms and the Democrats are doing a better job from this point of view.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 08, 2024, 19:14
In case you didn't realize, lately, marxist views are (unfortunately), popular again, not just in the US, but across the whole Europe. All socialist, social-democrat, democrat parties, green parties, etc... have marxist views.

No, they don't. At least for Germany, I can tell you that from the parties with some relevance, only "Die Linke" (The Left) has some Marxist leanings, even though their program is not really marxist. They narrowly missed the 5%-threshold at the last election for the German parliament, the Bundestag and only have seats in the Bundestag, because they won some seats directly.

The larger SPD, the social democrats, which is the party of chancellor Olaf Scholz, was originally marxist, when it was founded in the German Empire more then hundred years ago.

In the Weimar Republic, they already followed a more pragmatic line, which caused the more orthodox marxists to leave the party and found first the USPD and shortly afterwards, the KPD, the communist party.

In the West German FRG, the SPD finally officially renounced Marxism 1959 in the Godesberg Program. They accepted capitalism with a market economy as the economic system in Germany and try to improve the living conditions of the working classes from within the system.

Since then, some of their member have occasionally voiced views, which could be understood as being in favor of some aspects of Marxism, but that came usually from members of their youth organisation, which tends to be a bit more radical than the rest of the party.

The green party is by no means marxist these days and certainly not the FDP, the liberal party.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 09, 2024, 00:01
I'm not saying that these parties are marxist, I am saying that they have various degrees of marxist views.

While embracing capitalism in general, they do it by granting the state an important role in the economy (the German state still owns a significant share of Deutsche Telekom, Deutsche Post, for example, etc) and they implement or preserve significant wealth re-distribution programs.

And it's also my observation that the youth of these days is more radical, more marxist, as you pointed out. This generational polarization has always been there. Remember the saying: "if you're not a socialist by the time you're twenty you have no heart, but if you're not a conservative by the time you're forty you have no brain"
What I'm saying is that lately, these radical left views are more dominant than, let's say, 20 years ago.

When it comes to green parties, they have a large marxist component, relying heavily on big governments to solve environmental problems, while opposing industrialisation (thus capitalism).

And yes, most european liberal parties have a smaller marxist component than their socialist, social-democrat or democrat opposition.
What I am saying is that their position on the political spectrum is slightly to the left of the US Democrat Party. The Democrats also called "liberals", but are the left in the US (and, of course, they have a larger marxist component in their ideology, than the GoP).

Bottom line: Marx's legacy is alive and kicking!
Virtually everybody is carrying the virus, with or without their knowledge. Few are asymptomatic, many are suffering from mild side-effects, and some are really sick.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 05:13
Your views are consistent with those of most Republicans. You are not a democrat.

No. You are wrong, my views are closer (but not identical) to the Old School Republicans views, from the economy point of view.

Unfortunately they are a minority these days: trump's maga national-populist cult hijacked the GoP. Old School Republicans are ridiculed by the cult of maga, being called RINOs (Republicans In Name Only)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_in_Name_Only

I also told you that, but you systematically refuse to ackowledge the evidence and change your preconceptions.

However, I believe that Old School Republicans, are relying too much on religious "teachings", being too restrictive on personal freedoms and the Democrats are doing a better job from this point of view.
Your evidence is not evidence. Which is what I also write to you about all the time. You are fixated on Trump and his followers. You also listen to a lot of propaganda from Democrats.
In any case, there is only one Republican Party in the United States. There is no second batch like this. Therefore, the choice is obvious; only Republicans can save Europe from occupation. Democrats should not be given any power at all; I would not even allow them into the Senate and Congress, and especially not allow them into the presidency.
The Democrats are not coping with the war situation. They are cowards and friends of the Russian Empire. Because of the democrats, the EU is not ready for war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 09, 2024, 05:52
Your views are consistent with those of most Republicans. You are not a democrat.

No. You are wrong, my views are closer (but not identical) to the Old School Republicans views, from the economy point of view.

Unfortunately they are a minority these days: trump's maga national-populist cult hijacked the GoP. Old School Republicans are ridiculed by the cult of maga, being called RINOs (Republicans In Name Only)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_in_Name_Only

I also told you that, but you systematically refuse to ackowledge the evidence and change your preconceptions.

However, I believe that Old School Republicans, are relying too much on religious "teachings", being too restrictive on personal freedoms and the Democrats are doing a better job from this point of view.
Democrats should not be given any power at all; I would not even allow them into the Senate and Congress, and especially not allow them into the presidency.

I suspect that you too are a KGB agent. In any case, Putin would hug you for that statement.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 10:10
Wilm, are you putin? How can you know putin's thoughts?
It is correct to write this surname with a small letter.

Why is KGB agent Merkel not in prison? Why doesn't he testify? This girlfriend of putin has maximally weakened the defense capability of not only Germany, but the entire EU. There is very little written about this in the democratic press.
Well, never mind, the Republicans will soon come to power and they will quickly remind you of who your Merkel is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 10:17
The majority of Russians (63%) said that Russian media need state censorship.  ;D ;D ;D

Russians are genetic slaves, orcs and zombies!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 09, 2024, 10:35

In any case, there is only one Republican Party in the United States. There is no second batch like this.

The only thing you are doing is to flaunt your ignorance from thousands of miles away.

For your education: in the US there is no vote redistribution or a proportional system to allocate seats in Congress. The winner takes all. This system makes impossible for a small party to break through. This is why many political movements must unite under a big umbrella, and this is why in the US we face a defacto political duopoly, with only two big parties able to compete against each other.

Under these two big umbrellas, there are many factions coexisting. For example, the Democrats are hosting liberals, moderates, conservatives, progressives and a far left marxist faction (led by Alexandra Ocasio Cortez).

The Republicans use to have a smaller far-right faction, the Tea Party and several other factions leaning more or less to the center (e.g. social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, centrists, christian right, neoconservatives), but today the GoP is polarized between a "trumpist" majority and a "never trump" minority (made of leftovers from the Old School Republicans, mocked as RINOs, by the trumpists)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Trump_movement

Do your homework before embarrassing yourself with ignorant statements.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 09, 2024, 11:30


Why is KGB agent Merkel not in prison? Why doesn't he testify? This girlfriend of putin has maximally weakened the defense capability of not only Germany, but the entire EU. There is very little written about this in the democratic press.


Completely wrong again. The topic was discussed in the German media, especially after the publication of the book "Das erste Leben der Angela M" by historian Ralf Georg Reuth in 2013.

Conspiracy theorists have used this information to construct an activity of Angela Merkel as a KGB agent. However, there is no concrete evidence for this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 11:31

In any case, there is only one Republican Party in the United States. There is no second batch like this.

The only thing you are doing is to flaunt your ignorance from thousands of miles away.

For your education: in the US there is no vote redistribution or a proportional system to allocate seats in Congress. The winner takes all. This system makes impossible for a small party to break through. This is why many political movements must unite under a big umbrella, and this is why in the US we face a defacto political duopoly, with only two big parties able to compete against each other.

Under these two big umbrellas, there are many factions coexisting. For example, the Democrats are hosting liberals, moderates, conservatives, progressives and a far left marxist faction (led by Alexandra Ocasio Cortez).

The Republicans use to have a smaller far-right faction, the Tea Party and several other factions leaning more or less to the center (e.g. social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, centrists, christian right, neoconservatives), but today the GoP is polarized between a "trumpist" majority and a "never trump" minority (made of leftovers from the Old School Republicans, mocked as RINOs, by the trumpists)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trumpism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Trump_movement

Do your homework before embarrassing yourself with ignorant statements.
Why are you writing to me about groups (factions)? Did I write somewhere about groups?
This is your personal life and your personal choice to support the Republican Party or not. Keep voting for this ass.hole and coward Biden. It's up to you. But it is extremely vulgar and ignorant to try on a forum to dictate to others who they should support and who they should say thank you to.
You are clearly an ignorant person, because only an uncultured person writes in your style.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 11:33


Why is KGB agent Merkel not in prison? Why doesn't he testify? This girlfriend of putin has maximally weakened the defense capability of not only Germany, but the entire EU. There is very little written about this in the democratic press.


Completely wrong again. The topic was discussed in the German media, especially after the publication of the book "Das erste Leben der Angela M" by historian Ralf Georg Reuth in 2013.

Conspiracy theorists have used this information to construct an activity of Angela Merkel as a KGB agent. However, there is no concrete evidence for this.
So, they wrote something in 2013. They probably didn't write anymore. OK. If didn’t write, then everything is fine.  >:(

Let's wait until British and US intelligence shares information about Merkel with the public.  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 09, 2024, 11:38
Why are you writing to me about groups (factions)? Did I write somewhere about groups?

You wrote the statement below, right?

In any case, there is only one Republican Party in the United States. There is no second batch like this.

This is why I had to educate you, and explain that inside each one of the 2 big US parties there are several factions, "groups", or "batches" as you call them.
These 2 big parties are not ideological monoliths.

Under a different electoral system (like in most of Europe, for example) these "batches" would have formed independent parties.

You're welcome.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 09, 2024, 11:56


Why is KGB agent Merkel not in prison? Why doesn't he testify? This girlfriend of putin has maximally weakened the defense capability of not only Germany, but the entire EU. There is very little written about this in the democratic press.


Completely wrong again. The topic was discussed in the German media, especially after the publication of the book "Das erste Leben der Angela M" by historian Ralf Georg Reuth in 2013.

Conspiracy theorists have used this information to construct an activity of Angela Merkel as a KGB agent. However, there is no concrete evidence for this.
So, they wrote something in 2013. They probably didn't write anymore. OK. If didn’t write, then everything is fine.  >:(

Let's wait until British and US intelligence shares information about Merkel with the public.  :)


You repeatedly state here as fact that Merkel is a KGB agent.

Where is the proof?

Unknown and unpublished information from the American and British secret services?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 11:56
Zero Talent, did I ask you to explain something to me? What do I care about internal problems and contradictions in the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. You have decided that I am an idiot who does not know that there are different pressure groups or factions within the Republican Party.
Your writing style is clearly confrontational.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 11:58


Why is KGB agent Merkel not in prison? Why doesn't he testify? This girlfriend of putin has maximally weakened the defense capability of not only Germany, but the entire EU. There is very little written about this in the democratic press.


Completely wrong again. The topic was discussed in the German media, especially after the publication of the book "Das erste Leben der Angela M" by historian Ralf Georg Reuth in 2013.

Conspiracy theorists have used this information to construct an activity of Angela Merkel as a KGB agent. However, there is no concrete evidence for this.
So, they wrote something in 2013. They probably didn't write anymore. OK. If didn’t write, then everything is fine.  >:(

Let's wait until British and US intelligence shares information about Merkel with the public.  :)


You repeatedly state here as fact that Merkel is a KGB agent.

Where is the proof?

Unknown and unpublished information from the American and British secret services?  ;D ;D ;D
The obvious is obvious to me. I watched this lady and her politics for a long time. It is also obvious to me that you Germans are good friends of the Russians.
By covering and protecting a KGB agent, you yourself become an accomplice in the crimes of Russian Naz.is.

Yes, I do not have secret and spy recordings of her conversations and I do not have a dossier on her that the intelligence services of other countries have. But the point of the forums is that people here write obvious things, If of course these people are aware of Merkel’s policies and all the harm that she has caused.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 09, 2024, 12:06
Zero Talent, did I ask you to explain something to me? What do I care about internal problems and contradictions in the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. You have decided that I am an idiot who does not know that there are different pressure groups or factions within the Republican Party.
Your writing style is clearly confrontational.

No, I never said you are an idiot.

What I said is that you are ignorant of many aspects in US politics.

You are stubborn and unwilling to change your flawed deeply rooted beliefs. You are burying your head in the sand refusing to learn and ackowledge facts contradicting your beliefs. You are living in a fantasy world, disconnected from reality.

Most of your statements are full of non-sense and you are making a huge disservice to your country.

That's what I'm saying.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 09, 2024, 12:12

The obvious is obvious to me. I watched this lady and her politics for a long time. It is also obvious to me that you Germans are good friends of the Russians.
By covering and protecting a KGB agent, you yourself become an accomplice in the crimes of Russian Naz.is.

Yes, I do not have secret and spy recordings of her conversations and I do not have a dossier on her that the intelligence services of other countries have. But the point of the forums is that people here write obvious things, If of course these people are aware of Merkel’s policies and all the harm that she has caused.

Thank you, so still no proof.

Just your imagination and a special gift for watching ladies and her politics.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 09, 2024, 13:03


Why is KGB agent Merkel not in prison? Why doesn't he testify? This girlfriend of putin has maximally weakened the defense capability of not only Germany, but the entire EU. There is very little written about this in the democratic press.


Completely wrong again. The topic was discussed in the German media, especially after the publication of the book "Das erste Leben der Angela M" by historian Ralf Georg Reuth in 2013.

Conspiracy theorists have used this information to construct an activity of Angela Merkel as a KGB agent. However, there is no concrete evidence for this.
So, they wrote something in 2013. They probably didn't write anymore. OK. If didn’t write, then everything is fine.  >:(

Let's wait until British and US intelligence shares information about Merkel with the public.  :)


You repeatedly state here as fact that Merkel is a KGB agent.

Where is the proof?

Unknown and unpublished information from the American and British secret services?  ;D ;D ;D

It is also obvious to me that you Germans are good friends of the Russians.


It is obvious to me that you are a good friend of the russians.

There is a very high risk that US support for Ukraine and NATO could fall dramatically if the Republicans come to power.

A weak Ukraine and a weak NATO would be a gift for Putin. And that seems to be exactly what you want.

If you had power comparable to Putin's, you would ban the democrat party and thus silence the political representatives of 60% of the US population who are in favor of aid to Ukraine.

I'm beginning to think you're a Russian troll.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 13:26
Zero Talent, did I ask you to explain something to me? What do I care about internal problems and contradictions in the Republican Party or the Democratic Party. You have decided that I am an idiot who does not know that there are different pressure groups or factions within the Republican Party.
Your writing style is clearly confrontational.

No, I never said you are an idiot.

What I said is that you are ignorant of many aspects in US politics.

You are stubborn and unwilling to change your flawed deeply rooted beliefs. You are burying your head in the sand refusing to learn and ackowledge facts contradicting your beliefs. You are living in a fantasy world, disconnected from reality.

Most of your statements are full of non-sense and you are making a huge disservice to your country.

That's what I'm saying.
50% of the US population supports Republicans. Why don't you tell them all that they don't understand anything about politics.
Stop arguing with me and imposing your political beliefs. You and I have different goals. I remember very well the time when Trump was president. I liked Trump's policies.
But you are persistently trying to make an idiot out of me.
You'd be better off spending your time fighting with Republicans inside the US. It will be interesting to read what they write to you.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 13:30

The obvious is obvious to me. I watched this lady and her politics for a long time. It is also obvious to me that you Germans are good friends of the Russians.
By covering and protecting a KGB agent, you yourself become an accomplice in the crimes of Russian Naz.is.

Yes, I do not have secret and spy recordings of her conversations and I do not have a dossier on her that the intelligence services of other countries have. But the point of the forums is that people here write obvious things, If of course these people are aware of Merkel’s policies and all the harm that she has caused.

Thank you, so still no proof.

Just your imagination and a special gift for watching ladies and her politics.
What do you mean by proof?

I know the answer. Russian tanks shooting at your home and your family in your city. Then you will quickly understand that the German army is not ready for war and defense. But probably even then, Merkel will be a heavenly angel in your head.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 13:34


Why is KGB agent Merkel not in prison? Why doesn't he testify? This girlfriend of putin has maximally weakened the defense capability of not only Germany, but the entire EU. There is very little written about this in the democratic press.


Completely wrong again. The topic was discussed in the German media, especially after the publication of the book "Das erste Leben der Angela M" by historian Ralf Georg Reuth in 2013.

Conspiracy theorists have used this information to construct an activity of Angela Merkel as a KGB agent. However, there is no concrete evidence for this.
So, they wrote something in 2013. They probably didn't write anymore. OK. If didn’t write, then everything is fine.  >:(

Let's wait until British and US intelligence shares information about Merkel with the public.  :)


You repeatedly state here as fact that Merkel is a KGB agent.

Where is the proof?

Unknown and unpublished information from the American and British secret services?  ;D ;D ;D

It is also obvious to me that you Germans are good friends of the Russians.


It is obvious to me that you are a good friend of the russians.

There is a very high risk that US support for Ukraine and NATO could fall dramatically if the Republicans come to power.

A weak Ukraine and a weak NATO would be a gift for Putin. And that seems to be exactly what you want.

If you had power comparable to Putin's, you would ban the democrat party and thus silence the political representatives of 60% of the US population who are in favor of aid to Ukraine.

I'm beginning to think you're a Russian troll.
1. You can think whatever you want.
2. A very large population of the United States supports, for example, Hamas.
3. My phrases about the Democrats are my opinion about their policies and the troubles that their policies bring.
And yes, earlier in the USA various fools were dispersed with tear gas, water and batons. Those were good times.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 09, 2024, 13:47


Why is KGB agent Merkel not in prison? Why doesn't he testify? This girlfriend of putin has maximally weakened the defense capability of not only Germany, but the entire EU. There is very little written about this in the democratic press.


Completely wrong again. The topic was discussed in the German media, especially after the publication of the book "Das erste Leben der Angela M" by historian Ralf Georg Reuth in 2013.

Conspiracy theorists have used this information to construct an activity of Angela Merkel as a KGB agent. However, there is no concrete evidence for this.
So, they wrote something in 2013. They probably didn't write anymore. OK. If didn’t write, then everything is fine.  >:(

Let's wait until British and US intelligence shares information about Merkel with the public.  :)


You repeatedly state here as fact that Merkel is a KGB agent.

Where is the proof?

Unknown and unpublished information from the American and British secret services?  ;D ;D ;D

It is also obvious to me that you Germans are good friends of the Russians.


It is obvious to me that you are a good friend of the russians.

There is a very high risk that US support for Ukraine and NATO could fall dramatically if the Republicans come to power.

A weak Ukraine and a weak NATO would be a gift for Putin. And that seems to be exactly what you want.

If you had power comparable to Putin's, you would ban the democrat party and thus silence the political representatives of 60% of the US population who are in favor of aid to Ukraine.

I'm beginning to think you're a Russian troll.

And yes, earlier in the USA various fools were dispersed with tear gas, water and batons. Those were good times.


You have thereby disqualified yourself. You think autocratically and are on exactly the same intellectual and political level as Putin. And the biggest problem is that you don't even realize it.

However, I think you would be doing Ukraine a huge favor if you kept quiet.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 13:54
You have thereby disqualified yourself. You think autocratically and are on exactly the same intellectual and political level as Putin. And the biggest problem is that you don't even realize it.
However, I think you would be doing Ukraine a huge favor if you kept quiet.
It's better to talk about this when Russian tanks are within shooting distance of your house. And in the United States, demonstrations will be free to take place in support of the Russians or against military assistance to Germany and the EU.
If democrats are in power, then such a scenario is very real.
 ;D ;D ;D
 ::) ::) ::)

In the meantime, you live in a country in which bombs and shells do not fall on your head, and you live in the illusion of security and and talk like a child.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 09, 2024, 14:12
But probably even then, Merkel will be a heavenly angel in your head.  ::)

And completely wrong again.
I never claimed that Merkel is an angel. That's once again a figment of your imagination.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 09, 2024, 14:15
50% of the US population supports Republicans.

Wrong again. Stop making a fool of yourself!

See below the latest vote intentions in the US.

FYI, even when trump won against Clinton, he lost the popular vote. (he only had 46.09% of the voters, while Clinton had 2.09% more)

Again, you are ignorant of many aspects of the American politics.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 09, 2024, 14:18


Russian tanks shooting at your home and your family in your city. Then you will quickly understand that the German army is not ready for war and defense.

Thank you for your assessment.
This is exactly why we should stop supporting Ukraine immediately and keep Taurus ourselves. Good job.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 14:22
50% of the US population supports Republicans.

Wrong again. Stop making a fool of yourself!

See below the latest vote intentions in the US.

FYI, even when trump won against Clinton, he lost the popular vote. (he only had 46.09% of the population voting for him, while Clinton had 2.09% more voters)

Again, you are ignorant of many aspects of the American politics.
Let's think together which of us is a fool?
I rounded your 46% to 50% because... wrote without citing official sources. You cited the election results and called me a fool.
Don't you know what I mean?

Zero Talent, do you have a lot of free time and nothing to do? Go convince the Republicans that they are fools.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 14:24


Russian tanks shooting at your home and your family in your city. Then you will quickly understand that the German army is not ready for war and defense.

Thank you for your assessment.
This is exactly why we should stop supporting Ukraine immediately and keep Taurus ourselves. Good job.
Merkel's follower Scholz has currently given exactly 0 of these missiles to Ukraine. Merkel's policy continues, everything is leading to the fact that soon the Russians will be not far from your city.
 :)

And if now the Russians are in Ukraine in a cauldron (between the Dnieper River and two seas) and can be eliminated. Then when the Russians begin to attack Germany, their military position will be much better, and these missiles will not help you much.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 09, 2024, 14:27
50% of the US population supports Republicans.

Wrong again. Stop making a fool of yourself!

See below the latest vote intentions in the US.

FYI, even when trump won against Clinton, he lost the popular vote. (he only had 46.09% of the population voting for him, while Clinton had 2.09% more voters)

Again, you are ignorant of many aspects of the American politics.
Let's think together which of us is a fool?
I rounded your 46% to 50% because...

Aaah.... you rounded up! Conveniently to 50%! Only for Republicans.
You are also ignorant of how polls work!

Stop making a fool of yourself!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 09, 2024, 14:28
You have thereby disqualified yourself. You think autocratically and are on exactly the same intellectual and political level as Putin. And the biggest problem is that you don't even realize it.
However, I think you would be doing Ukraine a huge favor if you kept quiet.
It's better to talk about this when Russian tanks are within shooting distance of your house. And in the United States, demonstrations will be free to take place in support of the Russians or against military assistance to Germany and the EU.
If democrats are in power, then such a scenario is very real.
 ;D ;D ;D
 ::) ::) ::)

In the meantime, you live in a country in which bombs and shells do not fall on your head, and you live in the illusion of security and and talk like a child.

And you live in a country where Russian bombs are falling on your head? Why are you wasting your time here instead of defending your country?

In Germany, meanwhile, the far right political wing is calling for Nordstream 2 to be repaired. Incidentally, the same politicians - just like you - are in favor of a US-Republican victory, because they are also very critical of further support for Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 09, 2024, 14:30
Stop making a fool of yourself!
This is exactly what I wish for you!

you have lowered the conversation to the level of "the fool himself is a fool".  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 09, 2024, 14:32
Merkel's policy continues, everything is leading to the fact that soon the Russians will be not far from your city.
 :)


Putting a smiley face on attack fantasies about another country is pretty sick.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 09, 2024, 14:35
Stop making a fool of yourself!
This is exactly what I wish for you!

You are regularly pulling "proofs" out your a@@, you don't do your homework, you don't use logic, you make moronic, non-sensical statements, you refuse to accept facts contradicting the fantasy world you are living it.
You were proven wrong over and over again. Embarrassing!

Now you got your ignorance bubble burst and you know it.

I did you a favor.

You're welcome!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 09:10
__________________________________
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 09:14
Nikki Haley, great Republican! Let's wish her victory, just like Trump.

"Ron thinks supporting Ukraine is not a vital U.S. national security interest. He couldn’t be more wrong. A win for Russia is a win for China."

https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1743095579356393975

Biden, coward and friend of the Russians, resign!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 09:15
"russia said once they take Ukraine, Poland and the Baltics are next. This is about preventing war. We don’t want our men and women to have to go and fight."

https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1743114955543437614
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 09:18
"I think we should start pushing Nikki #Haley2024 on Twitter. Because she is the best solution for 🇺🇸 & 🇺🇦 .

1. Biden has gambled away American resolve and deterred himself from making 🇺🇦 win

2. Trump is doom

3. Haley will unite the GOP behind 🇺🇦 because she is from the party"

+100

https://twitter.com/BonkGearMetal/status/1743398140059832671

Democrats! cowardly friends of the Russians, get out of American politics! Your place is in russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 09:21
GOP should finally wake up to the fact that despite the deluge of online russian disinfo to the contrary, being pro-ukraine is what the electorate wants.

https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1743628912473579672

A coward and a *insult removed*, Biden is already losing to Nikki Haley by 17 points. Biden, you are already a political corpse!
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 09:23
https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 09:26
US Democrats! You are already political corpses. Get out of the white house!
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 10, 2024, 09:48
"I think we should start pushing Nikki #Haley2024 on Twitter. Because she is the best solution for 🇺🇸 & 🇺🇦 .

Yes, those who told you to endorse Nikki Haley instead of trump have finally realised what I told you a dozen of times already: trump and maga are bad news for Ukraine.

Nikki Haley is an "Old School Republican". Same as Chris Christie. Both are pro-Ukraine.
I would very much like to see one of them wining the GoP nomination.

But they stand no chance. As I told you already, they are ridiculed as RINOs by trump and his maga GoP majority.

Gallup poll from yesterday:
Among Republicans, Trump is viewed best (at 79% favorable, 19% unfavorable), followed by DeSantis (63%, 24%) and then Haley (44%, 24%)

Unfortunately trump will win the nomination by a large margin, he has a high chance to beat Biden indeed, and he will give putin what he wants.

Another recent poll below:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 10:05
Putin's German girlfriend entertains her KGB master.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbwVf56njra5DNnC7XoyUJbWFPiuhxJXOfpmtJPduhOwj9-N4TLghEHRbo15XN2uhj2-E&usqp=CAU)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQajrnFlN3IOCIrR8zJPVhXQ2Ghc9CIUSv77di_gI5HHX5HcocFzm96XVCQIWzKrg20YyY&usqp=CAU)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 10, 2024, 16:06
https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

She does not say this in the video.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 10, 2024, 16:48
https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

She does not say this in the video.

No, of course not.
But Merkel Stalker2014 certainly has references to previously unknown intelligence documents that could indicate that Haley might have meant something like that  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 10, 2024, 17:13
https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

She does not say this in the video.
She means it. I made brief conclusions from her speech. Not all people understand what politicians are talking about and why.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 10, 2024, 18:05
https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

She does not say this in the video.


Not all people understand what politicians are talking about and why.



Yes, and you are obviously one of them as you prooved several times.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 10, 2024, 21:09
https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

She does not say this in the video.

She said in on multiple occasions. For example here:
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1742750667033215234

She specified that she is not in favor of sending money, but weapons.

Too bad she has no chance to win the GoP nomination!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 11, 2024, 04:59
The last CNN poll had:
- Trump at 39%
- Haley at 32%

https://twitter.com/krassenstein/status/1745205092901429454

So, everything is going to the point that Haley will defeat Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 11, 2024, 05:02
 ;D ;D ;D

As of January 11, 2024, Ukraine’s Defense Forces have eliminated 367,620 Russian invaders, including 830 in the past day alone.

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2024_01/thumb_files/630_360_1704953218-403.jpg)

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3811819-russias-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-up-to-367620.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3811819-russias-military-death-toll-in-ukraine-up-to-367620.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 11, 2024, 05:08
Haley might be better than Trump. But I’m not against Trump either, the main thing is that turd Biden doesn’t win the election in 2024.
As for Trump, I liked his policies when he was already president. This is precisely the kind of policy that the United States lacks now.
As for Haley, she is certainly much better than Biden, and most likely will be better than Trump.
Well, the elections will show everything.
If I could vote, I would certainly vote for Haley, but I would really like to vote for Trump. Difficult choice.
Also, if Trump becomes president and Haley becomes vice president, this would also be a good option.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 11, 2024, 06:37
Victory Is Ukraine’s Only True Path to Peace
And EU and NATO Membership Are the Only Way to Achieve Enduring Security

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/victory-ukraines-only-true-path-peace (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/united-states/victory-ukraines-only-true-path-peace)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 11, 2024, 06:50
https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

She does not say this in the video.

She said in on multiple occasions. For example here:
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1742750667033215234

She specified that she is not in favor of sending money, but weapons.

Too bad she has no chance to win the GoP nomination!

Yes, she also states in the video that stoker linked to that the USA should send weapons instead of money, because apparently, foreigners can't be trusted with money.

She does not say "a lot", though, at least not in the sense I assume Stoker would understand it. She says supporting the Ukraine would cost only three and a half percent of the US military budget. Given the size of the budget, that is a substantiel amount, but it does not exceed the military aid the US has already send to the Ukraine and she also said that the Europeans have paid more and should pay more, as it is in their neighbourhood.

So it sounds to me that she will more or less continue the military aid the US currently sends, which obvioulsy does not satisfy Stoker.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 11, 2024, 07:31
Big Toe, of the money that the Democrats gave to Ukraine, the amount of military assistance is not very large. Therefore, if even this 3% will be used to send weapons specifically (and if also the weapons that Ukraine is requesting, it will be very good). I also know that only Biden and the US Democrats are cowards and dealers in Ukrainian blood. Therefore, it is logical to assume that the Republicans will send the necessary weapons to Ukraine.
Of course, we cannot now say exactly what Trump’s or Haley’s policy will be and how many and what kind of weapons they will give, but I can say for sure that Biden’s place is in prison, and Democrats should never be in power in the United States.
I am also confident that the Republicans will be able to force the EU countries to put their economies on martial law and begin to produce a lot of weapons for Ukraine. And that would be a great success. If I were Trump, I would immediately tell the EU that the United States will not fight for the EU. And I would set a condition, either the EU would go to martial law or the EU would fight with the Russians on its own. A coward and a *insult removed*, Biden will never be able to deliver such ultimatums, but Trump can. In fact, the same Trump has already even said this.

You must understand the main thing: cowardly democrats who are friends of the Russians are not giving Ukraine the weapons it needs. And without the necessary weapons, the war will be lost.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 11, 2024, 07:45
Big Toe, of the money that the Democrats gave to Ukraine, the amount of military assistance is not very large. Therefore, if even this 3% will be used to send weapons specifically (and if also the weapons that Ukraine is requesting, it will be very good).

According to the Ukraine Support Tracker, the USA have send $43,9 Billions worth in military aid and $25 Billions financial aid, so I guess it depends on whether you call $43,9 Billions very large.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ (https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)

I also know that only Biden and the US Democrats are cowards and dealers in Ukrainian blood.

And how do you know that?

Therefore, it is logical to assume that the Republicans will send the necessary weapons to Ukraine.

Must be some kind of alternative logic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 11, 2024, 07:57
Big Toe, of the money that the Democrats gave to Ukraine, the amount of military assistance is not very large. Therefore, if even this 3% will be used to send weapons specifically (and if also the weapons that Ukraine is requesting, it will be very good).

According to the Ukraine Support Tracker, the USA have send $43,9 Billions worth in military aid and $25 Billions financial aid, so I guess it depends on whether you call $43,9 Billions very large.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ (https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)

I also know that only Biden and the US Democrats are cowards and dealers in Ukrainian blood.

And how do you know that?

Therefore, it is logical to assume that the Republicans will send the necessary weapons to Ukraine.

Must be some kind of alternative logic.
1. $43.9 Billions is what percentage of the US military budget? The full-scale war has been going on for 2 years now, take this into account in your calculations.
2. You can get by with much smaller amounts if you send the necessary weapons to Ukraine. The necessary weapons are aviation, medium- and long-range missiles, and tanks.
3. If you read all my posts in this thread, you will find the answers to why Biden and the Democrats are cowards and *insult removed*. I have already written about this many times.
4. I have nothing more to add to what I said.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 11, 2024, 08:07
My advice to the EU and EU countries!
The sooner you declare general martial law, mobilization, transfer the economy to the production of only weapons and send a lot of weapons to Ukraine, the greater the chance that you will not be occupied by the Russians and your infrastructure and ecology will not suffer. I'm not even talking about the millions of dead, destroyed cities, occupation and economic collapse.
Today it is still possible to eliminate the Russians and stop the war on the borders of Ukraine. But tomorrow the war will move to EU territory.

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 11, 2024, 12:56
1. $43.9 Billions is what percentage of the US military budget? The full-scale war has been going on for 2 years now, take this into account in your calculations.

The US military budget for 2024 is estimated to be about $842 billion. 3,5% of that are about 29,5 billion. The data from the support tracker covers aid from January 24 2022 until October 31 2023. So that amounts to about 26,3 billion per year. So the 3,5% of the military budget would only be a slight increase in military aid, with cutting the financial support to zero. So overall, the Ukraine would fare worse.

You may belittle financial aid, but you absolutely need money to run a country under war conditions. You have to pay your soldiers, import stuff important for the war effort that are not weapons, for example to repair destroyed infrastructure or trucks and you can also use money to buy weapons from countries that are willing to deliver some, but do not want to give it away for free.

2. You can get by with much smaller amounts if you send the necessary weapons to Ukraine. The necessary weapons are aviation, medium- and long-range missiles, and tanks.

Is that so? Well, you got a significant number of modern Leopard 2 tanks from Germany and other European countries. Before they were delivered, they were viewed as a gamechanger by many people and there was a lot of pressure on the German government to send the tanks and allow other countries to do so.

So they were delivered, but the effect seems to have been relatively insignificant for a number of reasons. They had a lot of problems with Russian mine fields, helicopters and drones and of course Russia also have a large number of anti-tank weapons.

I suspect it may be the same with modern planes in realistic numbers. They will be vulnerable to Russian air defence and the Ukraine will still not be able to offer a lot of air support for offensives without risking the planes.

More and longer reaching missiles may be more important, as they are more difficult to defend and allow striking behind the front, but they are not a panacea.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 11, 2024, 14:56
Big Toe, I'll say it briefly. Everything is exactly the opposite of what you wrote. Read less Russian propaganda.
 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 11, 2024, 15:49
Are you from Ukraine, stocker2014, or which country is your home?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 11, 2024, 16:44
Big Toe, I'll say it briefly. Everything is exactly the opposite of what you wrote.

Well, since in your world everything seems to be upside down, the logical conclusion from your statement is that everything is exactly as I wrote.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 11, 2024, 18:59
1. $43.9 Billions is what percentage of the US military budget? The full-scale war has been going on for 2 years now, take this into account in your calculations.

The US military budget for 2024 is estimated to be about $842 billion. 3,5% of that are about 29,5 billion. The data from the support tracker covers aid from January 24 2022 until October 31 2023. So that amounts to about 26,3 billion per year. So the 3,5% of the military budget would only be a slight increase in military aid, with cutting the financial support to zero. So overall, the Ukraine would fare worse.

Great point, Big Toe!

This is yet another example when our dear friend is caught with his pants down, pulling "facts" out of his a@@!  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 12, 2024, 03:30
Democrats and Russians are friends and partners. The same propaganda comes from the Democrats as from the Russians.
What I have always written about is that democrats are evil, and this evil has already led to the third world war.
Fuck the Democrats!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 12, 2024, 03:54
Democrats = democraps.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 12, 2024, 07:16
So, the less time there is before the US elections, the more we will see a stream of Russian propaganda, disinformation and crap from the Democrats.
This year is a good year so that everyone can see the real face of these democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 12, 2024, 08:34
EU Countries Continue to Import $1bn of Russian Arctic LNG Every Month.

EU, Europe - good job! well done! Putin personally thanks you every day!
Thanks to the EU, the Russian army is arming itself and preparing to deploy its tanks in the cities of EU countries in the near future.
Great! Keep it up!

Fuckin' idiots....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 12, 2024, 08:35
https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/eu-countries-continue-import-1bn-russian-arctic-lng-every-month?fbclid=IwAR08mW2VSz2O7MuQocQptagmzJ-2hNt920ZklQ9iUA7dDmgRfH30NeTH7gc (https://www.highnorthnews.com/en/eu-countries-continue-import-1bn-russian-arctic-lng-every-month?fbclid=IwAR08mW2VSz2O7MuQocQptagmzJ-2hNt920ZklQ9iUA7dDmgRfH30NeTH7gc)

EU Countries Continue to Import $1bn of Russian Arctic LNG Every Month.

Almost two years into the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, European countries continue to import Russian Arctic liquefied natural gas at record levels. A new report details how LNG now constitutes the primary Russian fossil fuel purchased by the EU, sending more than $1bn per month to the country.

A new Ukranian analysis on the proliferation of Russian fossil fuel highlights the continued and unabated import of liquefied natural gas (LNG) by EU countries. In contrast to the United States, the EU has thus far not placed any sanctions on the import of LNG.

As a result the EU remains a destination for 50 percent of Russia’s LNG exports sending in excess of $1bn each month to the country.

“Russia saw a surge in revenue from LNG exports, particularly as its LNG remains unsanctioned by the EU. From December 2022 to October 2023, half of Russia's LNG exports, totalling EUR 8.3 billion, were directed to the EU market,” the report details.

It is the Ukrainian organization Razom We Stand that is behind the report, calling for a total and permanent embargo on Russian fossil fuels and an immediate end to all investment into Russian oil and gas companies.

While up to a dozen EU countries have received Russian LNG since February 2022, the key importers remain Belgium, Spain, and France, which together account for 88 percent of the EU’s Russian LNG imports during the last 10 months.

(https://www.highnorthnews.com/sites/default/files/styles/media_image/public/2023-12/LNG%20imports%20to%20EU.png?itok=e0ZW-tvg)

Share of Russian LNG exports by destination.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 12, 2024, 08:38
EU ports receive in excess of 200 shipments from Russia’s Yamal LNG facility per year. The volume of imported LNG is now so significant that it has surpassed other forms of Russian fossil fuels.

“LNG constituted the primary fossil fuel type purchased by the EU from Russia in January- November 2023,” the analysis emphasizes.

All of this LNG is produced by the Yamal plant located in the Russian Arctic. With a second project, Arctic LNG 2, slated to come online in the coming weeks, EU imports could increase further in 2024.

EU ports help Russian LNG
The EU also facilitates the transshipment of Russian LNG to buyers outside the continent. More than 20 percent of Yamal LNG passes through terminals in Europe where it is reloaded from specialized ice-capable carriers to conventional LNG tankers for onward transport.

A key hub is the port of Zeebrugge, where Fluxys, a natural gas transmission system operator, runs a regasification and storage terminal. The company signed a long-term storage agreement – through 2035 – with Novatek in 2015. The deal allows for up to 8m tons of LNG, around 105 shipments, to pass through the facility.

The transfer of LNG has become a crucial component of Russia’s Arctic LNG operation allowing it to maximize the use of its limited Arctic fleet. With South Korean shipyards DSME and SHI canceling contracts for additional ice-class LNG carriers due to sanctions, the transshipment of LNG in Europe has gained further importance.

“EU Member States should immediately ban transhipment of Russian LNG in their ports that further travels onwards to non-EU destinations. Russia is reliant on these ports for the logistics and storage of LNG that travel to non-EU destinations,” the report’s authors recommend.

Phasing out the transhipment of Russian LNG appears to be a low-hanging fruit as it would complicate Russia’s LNG exports without impacting EU energy security. The US recently announced sanctions aimed at curtailing Russia’s transshipment efforts, but according to EU officials the bloc does not currently have plans to follow suit.

European companies also remain involved in the operation of Novatek’s fleet of LNG carriers. Norway’s Assuranceforeningen Skuld, an Oslo-based marine insurance company, continues to provide protection and indemnity insurance to three of the LNG tankers which shuttle LNG between the Arctic and markets in Europe.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 12, 2024, 08:47
https://razomwestand.org/en/article/new-report-carbon-war-accounting-global-proliferation-russian-fossil-fuels (https://razomwestand.org/en/article/new-report-carbon-war-accounting-global-proliferation-russian-fossil-fuels)

Russia accumulated more than EUR 550 billion ($604bn, £476bn) in revenue from fossil fuel exports from the start of the full-scale war in Ukraine until November 30, 2023, according to the data analysis by CREA. In 2024, the Kremlin is set to allocate nearly a third of its total expenditures to the military and military-industrial complex, marking the highest allocation since the Soviet era.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 12, 2024, 08:48
The only hope is for the Republicans. Trump will quickly send the EU under Russian occupation for such an idiotic policy aimed at financing the Russians.

Over the course of 10 years, and especially the last two years, the EU and EU countries have proven that their place is under Russian occupation!
Europeans, start preparing parking spaces for Russian tanks!
And coffins, Russians like to kill a lot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 12, 2024, 10:33
Europeans, start preparing parking spaces for Russian tanks!
And coffins, Russians like to kill a lot.

Stoker, I trust you with a little secret. I know you're the only one who understands me.

Birds Aren't Real, birds no longer exist.
What we know as birds today are actually drones disguised with feathers, which have been used by the US government to spy on the population since the 1970s. If you see them sitting on power lines, the robots take a short break to recharge.

We're screwed anyway, so the Russians don't matter any more.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 12, 2024, 11:20

The only hope is for the Republicans. Trump will quickly send the EU under Russian occupation for such an idiotic policy aimed at financing the Russians.


I suppose this is exactly what a Russian troll wants.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 12, 2024, 12:42

The only hope is for the Republicans. Trump will quickly send the EU under Russian occupation for such an idiotic policy aimed at financing the Russians.


I suppose this is exactly what a Russian troll wants.

Yes, the former moron-in-chief already declared that NATO is dead and he will not help any NATO ally if attacked, reassuring his buddy putin.

Despite that, our delusional dear friend somehow believes that Ukraine will get a special treatment!

Sad and hilarious at the same time! 🙄
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 12, 2024, 20:10
Stocker2014 doesn't want to say which country he lives in.

If he is Not a russian troll I'm just wondering
- how much support his country has given Ukraine so far, specifically
- how many weapons
- how much humanitarian aid
- how much money for maintaining the infrastructure

- where his country gets raw materials from
- what the political situation is like in his country and how it relates to the Russians and Ukrainians
- how many KGB members rule his country
- whether his country has already declared general martial law
etc.

Then it might be easier for me to understand why he is constantly dragging the countries that support Ukraine into the mud and ultimately - as we have already said - not doing Ukraine any favors. On the contrary.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 12, 2024, 20:14

The only hope is for the Republicans. Trump will quickly send the EU under Russian occupation for such an idiotic policy aimed at financing the Russians.


+100

I suppose this is exactly what a Russian troll wants.

Yes, the former moron-in-chief already declared that NATO is dead and he will not help any NATO ally if attacked, reassuring his buddy putin.

Despite that, our delusional dear friend somehow believes that Ukraine will get a special treatment!

Sad and hilarious at the same time! 🙄
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on January 13, 2024, 00:22
Europeans, start preparing parking spaces for Russian tanks!
And give more parking spaces for the luxury cars of “poor Ukrainian refugees”!
https://valahia.news/rich-ukrainian-refugees-in-romania/

(https://i.postimg.cc/W1DVnWYL/5-min-768x370.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 13, 2024, 04:24
https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-vow-never-help-europe-attack-thierry-breton/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-vow-never-help-europe-attack-thierry-breton/)

Trump vowed he’d ‘never’ help Europe if it’s attacked, top EU official says.
‘By the way NATO is dead,’ the former (and potential future) US president added in private meeting.

 ;D ;D ;D
_________
Well done Trump! An excellent ultimatum to cowardly and venal Europe.

The EU has a choice:
1. Continue to support the policy of anti-Americanism in their countries, trade and finance Russian Na.zis.
2. Or, stop doing everything listed in paragraph one, declare martial law in all EU countries; send aviation, tanks, and missiles to Ukraine in the quantities required by the Ukrainians.

My opinion is that the EU has already made its choice a long time ago. KGB agent Merkel dealt crushing blows to the military security of Germany and the EU countries. EU citizens have a good attitude towards Russians and most of them believe that Ukraine's problems are just Ukraine's problems. EU countries want to trade with Russian Na.zis.
The result for the EU is obvious: the US will not fight the Russians for the EU.

Let's ask any US citizen if he is ready to spend his money on the security of the EU, provided that the EU funds russia? Is a US citizen ready to shed his blood for those who consider the US a threat to the EU?
The answer is obvious.

For now, I will hope that Trump’s ultimatum will achieve the desired result.

Can Ukraine win a war when the EU funds russia and does not supply Ukraine with the promised number of shells or other necessary weapons? The answer is obvious, Ukraine will not be able to win the war. What then is the point of killing Ukrainians every day and killing the Ukrainian ecology and Ukrainian cities?

Trump’s position is correct, the main and main threat to planet earth is not Russian orcs, but China. Therefore, the United States must deal with eliminating the Chinese threat. Well, when China is defeated, then the axis of evil in the form of russia, China, Iran, North Korea and Belarus will also be destroyed.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 13, 2024, 04:47
Europeans, start preparing parking spaces for Russian tanks!
And give more parking spaces for the luxury cars of “poor Ukrainian refugees”!
https://valahia.news/rich-ukrainian-refugees-in-romania/

(https://i.postimg.cc/W1DVnWYL/5-min-768x370.jpg)

This comment can hardly be surpassed in cynicism!

What are you trying to say? That you can bomb someone because they have a Mercedes? Or that someone is not allowed to flee if they are bombed because they have a Mercedes? Or that all Ukrainians drive big cars?

I can do without such low-level comments!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on January 13, 2024, 05:17

This comment can hardly be surpassed in cynicism!

Are you talking about the article I linked to?
Or about the cynicism of those Ukrainians who have plenty of money, but do not help their homeland, and prefer to hide from mobilization in other countries and show off their pseudo-patriotism on forums?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 13, 2024, 07:35

This comment can hardly be surpassed in cynicism!

Are you talking about the article I linked to?
Or about the cynicism of those Ukrainians who have plenty of money, but do not help their homeland, and prefer to hide from mobilization in other countries and show off their pseudo-patriotism on forums?

If you are trying to say that Ukraine deserved to be invaded and destroyed by your fellow countrymen led by your paranoid dictator because not all Ukrainians are perfect, then try harder.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 13, 2024, 07:40
https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-vow-never-help-europe-attack-thierry-breton/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-vow-never-help-europe-attack-thierry-breton/)

Trump vowed he’d ‘never’ help Europe if it’s attacked, top EU official says.
‘By the way NATO is dead,’ the former (and potential future) US president added in private meeting.

 ;D ;D ;D
_________
Well done Trump! An excellent ultimatum to cowardly and venal Europe.

https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg596930/#msg596930 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg596930/#msg596930)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on January 13, 2024, 09:48
If you are trying to say that
You have a rich imagination. What else will you come up with and attribute to me?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 13, 2024, 10:49
If you are trying to say that
You have a rich imagination. What else will you come up with and attribute to me?

Sure. I am also attributing you your shameless hypocrisy.

You have the audacity to accuse others for not being patriotic enough, when they run away from the murders commited by your fellow countrymen, you consider yourself a "peace lover", but you never condemned your paranoid leader for invading Ukraine or your criminal compatriots for obeying his orders and killing children and innocent civilians, for destroying their homes and their livelihood.

You never ackowldged that your country is a fascist regime (from absolutely all points of view), while you call na.zis exactly the heroes who die defending their homeland from your barbaric invasion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on January 13, 2024, 12:08
you never condemned your paranoid leader
Leave your delusional accusatory fantasies about me. You won't be able to provoke me.
 And everyone can see who the real nazzi is on this forum.
Happy Old New Year everyone!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 13, 2024, 12:22
you never condemned your paranoid leader
Leave your delusional accusatory fantasies about me. You won't be able to provoke me.
 And everyone can see who the real nazzi is on this forum.
Happy Old New Year everyone!

Stop deflecting.
I am not talking about a misguided specific individual active in this forum, who should know better.

I am talking about your shameless hypocrisy and your murderous fascist leader, about your criminal countrymen who obey his orders, killing children and innocent civilians, while you deflect their crimes posing as a "peace lover".

Shame!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 13, 2024, 16:36
russia is burning! It burns beautifully!  ;D ;D ;D

The warehouse of a large online store Wildberries is on fire in St. Petersburg. The area of the fire is 70 thousand square meters.

https://youtu.be/J4BCRi9QmLE (https://youtu.be/J4BCRi9QmLE)

https://youtu.be/LR-R-mbgIzE (https://youtu.be/LR-R-mbgIzE)


Glory to Ukraine!


This warehouse is a legal military target. It contained many dual-use goods imported for the Russian Na.zi army.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 13, 2024, 17:52

This warehouse is a legal military target. It contained many dual-use goods imported for the Russian Na.zi army.

Because you obviously don't put one and one together, I would save myself such comments.

I hope that Ukraine did not attack the warehouse, because it is not a legitimate target.

https://global.wildberries.ru/

Rather, it is suspected that the fire was caused internally because the Russian government wants to send Wildberries employees - mostly with a migration background - to the Ukrainian front.

But Yes, I hope there will be more fires.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 13, 2024, 18:10
you never condemned your paranoid leader
Leave your delusional accusatory fantasies about me. You won't be able to provoke me.
 And everyone can see who the real nazzi is on this forum.
Happy Old New Year everyone!

Stop deflecting.
I am not talking about a misguided specific individual active in this forum, who should know better.

I am talking about your shameless hypocrisy and your murderous fascist leader, about your criminal countrymen who obey his orders, killing children and innocent civilians, while you deflect their crimes posing as a "peace lover".

Shame!

Full agreement.
Our friend has in no way distanced himself from the war.
Instead, he posts here as if all is well with the world.
He posts Christmas greetings from a quiet Russian village while his buddies are bombing the Ukrainian civilian infrastructure. The last post fits in with that.
In this way, he subtly mocks the victims of war - disgusting.

But he won't be ashamed of himself, as a proud Russian he obviously still hasn't understood that his people are unwanted in the civilized world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on January 14, 2024, 01:27

Our friend has in no way distanced himself from the war.
Instead, he posts here as if all is well with the world.
He posts Christmas greetings from a quiet Russian village
Since when do you consider wishing Happy New Year abnormal? Are you out of your mind? Do you want me to publicly criticize the government of my country here? My attitude towards the government will be reflected on the ballot for the presidential election in 2 months, but not here. You won't be able to provoke me into this. You know what happens in the modern “democratic World” when you criticize government of the country in which you live. The death of Gonzalo Lira López is another example of this.
I truly wish everyone that all military conflicts on Earth will end this year. But, unfortunately, the increase in the number of hot spots on the planet foreshadows the worst. When there is no way to influence the events taking place in the World, focus on loving and caring for your loved ones and the World will become a little better.
I'll stop writing on this topic for a while. And please stop discussing what I should and shouldn’t. Talk about your personal real actions leading to peace.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 14, 2024, 05:03
Pepsi helped russia to kill 13,000 Ukrainians.

Since the beginning of the russian invasion, Pepsi continued its operations in russia. As a result, PepsiCo’s net profit increased by a 333% to $525 million last year and the company paid $115 million in taxes to the Kremlin.

To put it in perspective, $115 million will allow russia to produce 200,000 shells. Artillery is responsible for about 75% of casualties, with roughly 15 shells per kill. So, Pepsi helped russia to kill 13,000 Ukrainians.

Literally, Pepsi is sponsoring russian war crimes. It has already been added to the list of international sponsors of war. But we need more!

Here are some practical steps:
1. Share this post with your friends and let them know about the moral bankruptcy of Pepsi.
2. Go to PepsiCo page and leave a comment reminding them that they are sponsoring war crimes.
3. Stop buying their products, they are not good for you anyway. But if you cannot live without soda, then switch to Coca-Cola.
4. Stop working for Pepsi. I actually had several connections on LinkedIn who worked for Pepsi. I removed them, because I cannot be connected to people who tangentially enable genocide against my family and friends.

https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1746232199836500056 (https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1746232199836500056)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 14, 2024, 05:06
In its advertising strategy in Ukraine, the PepsiCo company forbade mentioning the war.

This is reported by the global coalition of public organizations B4Ukraine.

In the fall of 2023, during the search for a new PR agency in Ukraine, requirements were set, according to which references to the war in PepsiCo's advertising activities were prohibited, namely:
Mention of war, hostilities, aggression, military personnel, Armed Forces; support for Ukraine or the Ukrainian army; negative connotations, which creates a feeling of "danger".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 14, 2024, 05:10
Dnipro We remember...
A year ago, on January 14, Russian bast.ards and Na.zis hit a residential building with an X-22 missile.
46 people were killed.

https://t.me/operativnoZSU/132018 (https://t.me/operativnoZSU/132018)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 14, 2024, 05:56
You know what happens in the modern “democratic World” when you criticize government of the country in which you live.

Nothing bad happens to people in the democratic world to people who criticize their government.

Then again, Russia isn't part of the democratic world, so you wouldn't know about that.

The death of Gonzalo López is another example of this.

Do you mean this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzalo_Lopez

He was killed in a shoot out with the police because he opened fire with an AR-15–style rifle on the police officers trying to arrest him, having murdered five people, including three children, earlier the same day.

So, no, he is not really an example of what happens when you criticize your government in the democratic world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 14, 2024, 05:57
Pepsi helped russia to kill 13,000 Ukrainians.

Since the beginning of the russian invasion, Pepsi continued its operations in russia. As a result, PepsiCo’s net profit increased by a 333% to $525 million last year and the company paid $115 million in taxes to the Kremlin.

To put it in perspective, $115 million will allow russia to produce 200,000 shells. Artillery is responsible for about 75% of casualties, with roughly 15 shells per kill. So, Pepsi helped russia to kill 13,000 Ukrainians.

Literally, Pepsi is sponsoring russian war crimes. It has already been added to the list of international sponsors of war. But we need more!

Here are some practical steps:
1. Share this post with your friends and let them know about the moral bankruptcy of Pepsi.
2. Go to PepsiCo page and leave a comment reminding them that they are sponsoring war crimes.
3. Stop buying their products, they are not good for you anyway. But if you cannot live without soda, then switch to Coca-Cola.
4. Stop working for Pepsi. I actually had several connections on LinkedIn who worked for Pepsi. I removed them, because I cannot be connected to people who tangentially enable genocide against my family and friends.

https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1746232199836500056 (https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1746232199836500056)


Glory to Ukraine!


Here, too, not everything is always black and white.

There is a German supermarket chain GLOBUS that is still active in Russia. As I am a customer in this store, I wrote to the management and, to my surprise, received a personalized reply very quickly.
 
On the one hand, they felt responsible for the 10,000 employees and for the basic food supply for the population.
More importantly, however, if they were to pull out, there would be a forced sale and the Russian state would take considerable assets. The financial gain for the Russian state would be greater than the current income.

Even if I don't completely share their opinion, I can understand their point of view.

I don't know whether the situation is comparable for Pepsico.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 14, 2024, 08:36
This is what Russian slaves, orcs and zombies look like. And there are 80-90% of such Russians in russia.

(https://bestmemes.ucoz.net/_nw/11/07311057.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 14, 2024, 09:10
This is what Russian slaves, orcs and zombies look like. And there are 80-90% of such Russians in russia.

There is no orc in this picture. Haven't you watched Lord Of The Rings? You seem to be unaware how orcs look like.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 14, 2024, 09:22
This is what Russian slaves, orcs and zombies look like. And there are 80-90% of such Russians in russia.

(https://bestmemes.ucoz.net/_nw/11/07311057.jpg)

Exactly! Like 80-90% of the Ukrainians own expensive SUVs. The same level of stereotypical thinking.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 14, 2024, 09:29
Oh! Lev Rubinstein didn't fall out of the window. It wasn't a plane crash either. This time it was a traffic accident.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 14, 2024, 14:07
A document called the Proposed Victory Plan for Ukraine has been published on the website of the US Congress.

It was signed by the heads of three key committees of the House of Representatives and influential members of the Republican Party. They sharply criticize the Joe Biden administration for insufficient military support for Ukraine and offer to provide the Ukrainian Armed Forces with critical weapons.

The plan was signed by the heads of the Committees on Foreign Affairs (Michael McCaul), Armed Services (Mike Rogers) and Intelligence (Mike Turner). The majority in the House of Representatives belongs to Republicans.

The document sharply criticizes the administration of President Joe Biden for insufficient and inconsistent military support for Ukraine and demands decisive action from him. As the authors note, Biden's hesitation to provide Ukraine with critical weapons delayed the Ukrainian victory. In their opinion, Ukraine needs to be provided with the longest-range variant of ATACMS, F-16 aircraft and sufficient numbers of cluster munitions, artillery, air defense systems and armored vehicles to change the situation on the battlefield. Delay leads to loss of lives of Ukrainians and money of American taxpayers. The authors point to the need to strengthen sanctions against the Putin regime and transfer $300 billion of frozen Russian sovereign assets to Ukraine.

This document was agreed upon by Speaker of the House of Representatives Mike Johnson.

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf (https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 14, 2024, 14:12
So this is what I write about all the time. Biden is a friend of putin and Russian Na/zis. The Russian attack on Ukraine was always approved by Democratic presidents. The first is Obama, the second is Biden. Now Biden is helping putin win the elections in russia, in return Biden expects help from putin in the US elections.

Biden's place in the electric chair!
Fuck the Democrats!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 14, 2024, 14:18
"Plan for victory in Ukraine": US Republicans set out their vision for US role in defeating Russia.

The US Foreign Affairs Committee, House Armed Services Committee, and House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, all of which are chaired by Republicans, have issued a joint document in which they criticise President Joe Biden’s administration for its lack of assistance to Ukraine and demand decisive actions in this regard.

Details: The document, entitled the "Proposed Plan for Victory in Ukraine", was signed by Chairman Michael McCaul of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Chairman Mike Rogers of the House Armed Services Committee, and Chairman Mike Turner of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. It was drafted in late 2023 but has only now started to stir discussions among relevant stakeholders.

The plan’s cover shows a photo of Russian President Vladimir Putin standing alongside Chinese President Xi Jinping, Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran, and the self-proclaimed Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko.

The plan is intended to address critical issues in relation to the US and its allies’ support for Ukraine and to set out a victory plan in which Ukraine wins and Russia loses.

The plan contains five sections: The Threat, Proposed Plan for Victory,  Oversight, Burden Sharing, and Timeline of Biden’s Deadly Delays in Sending Weapons to Ukraine.

The Foreign Affairs Committee press release stated that Russia and an alliance consisting of China, Iran, Iran’s proxies (like Hamas and Hezbollah), and North Korea, are "working together to undermine American interests around the world". "Their goal is to diminish the US economy, fracture key alliances, and establish a new world order of totalitarianism. The United States has not faced a more dangerous array of adversaries since World War II," the press release said.

The authors of the report said in the press release that the US Congress has a "responsibility to defend freedom from the likes of Russia, China, and Iran. Many of you have questioned why we should support Ukraine, and this report will not only address your questions but will provide you with the information to inform others, especially our constituencies, why our support is needed."

"Biden’s mantra of supporting Ukraine ‘for as long as it takes’ is a losing strategy," the report itself says.

"Instead, House Republicans believe President Biden should present a credible plan for victory and arm Ukraine with the weapons it needs to win as soon as possible," the report continues.

"Since the first day of the war, Biden’s debilitating hesitation to provide critical weapons to Ukraine has delayed a Ukrainian victory," the report also says. Ukraine needs the longest-range variant of ATACMS (300 km, not the 160 km Ukraine was given), F-16 fighters, and sufficient quantities of cluster munitions, artillery, air defences, and armour "to make a difference on the battlefield". "This delay is costing Ukrainian lives and the American taxpayer," the report stresses.

The authors of the report believe that Ukraine’s path to victory requires "(1) providing critical weapons to Ukraine at the speed of relevance, (2) tightening sanctions on the Putin regime, and (3) transferring frozen Russian sovereign assets to Ukraine."

The report stresses the importance of oversight over the US aid, though it admits that the countless checks conducted to date have not detected any significant violations.

"Defeating Putin in Ukraine now will prevent a Russian invasion of a NATO ally, which would be immeasurably more costly in terms of American blood and treasure," the report says.

"As a percentage of GDP, the US ranks just 30th in total assistance to Ukraine, with Poland, the Baltic states, the UK, Norway, and others contributing more in terms of this metric. In terms of security assistance by GDP, the US ranks 14th," the report notes.

Support for Ukraine is not "charity", the press release added.

"After President Biden’s disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan, supporting Ukraine to defeat Putin’s invading forces is critical to restoring American deterrence in Europe, the Middle East, and the Indo-Pacific," the press release said.

The Proposed Plan for Victory in Ukraine "will ensure that Ukraine is able to make the needed advances on the battlefield to force Putin to the negotiating table," the press release promised.

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf (https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 14, 2024, 14:26
I recommend everyone read this document from the Republicans.
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf (https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf)

Democratic Trolls Don't Need to Read.

"Biden is mishandling the worst war in Europe since World War II. His weakness failed to deter Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, continues to prolong the war, and risks inviting further aggression from America’s adversaries.
Biden did not impose a single significant sanction on Russia as it amassed troops around Ukraine in the lead-up to the invasion, nor did he provide significant military assistance during those critical months. In fact, he rolled-back and failed to enforce Trump-era sanctions on key Kremlin projects such as Nord Stream 2. This weakness forfeited the last opportunity to deter Russia and prevent this costly war.
It is no coincidence that Russia invaded Ukraine a mere six months after Biden’s. Shameful surrender to the Taliban and humiliating withdrawal from Afghanistan. Putin sensed American weakness and believed he could seize Ukraine without a significant response from the West. "

+100

Biden and the Democrats are criminals just like the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 14, 2024, 18:03

Biden's place in the electric chair!


Wow! That's a great statement!

That sounds like: "All those who write here in the forum about the theoretical progress of US politics instead of defending Ukraine with a gun in their hand should go to the electric chair".

Will you start by going to the electric chair?


Do you know how democracy works?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 15, 2024, 06:35
The Ukrainian Air Force has destroyed Russia's A-50 early warning and control aircraft and Il-22 airborne command post and electronic intelligence aircraft.
 ;D ;D ;D

Glory to Ukraine!
____

Reference: The A-50 aircraft is an airborne early warning and control (AWACS) platform designed for monitoring targets in the air, on the ground, and at sea, and for guiding fighter aircraft toward them.

The Russian Aerospace Forces have nine such aircraft at their disposal. Each aircraft is serviced by 19 personnel (5 pilots, 11 radio engineers, and 3 technical engineers) and costs US$330 million.

The Il-22M is an airborne command post based on the Il-18 airliner that helps control troops during hostilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5R4VC4xmqw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5R4VC4xmqw)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 15, 2024, 10:11
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf (https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf)

All our adversaries are watching. If Biden can’t stop the Taliban, Iran and its proxies, or Putin, how will he deter Xi Jinping?
Biden is indirectly funding both sides of this war through his disastrous Iran policy. Multi-billion-dollar ransom payments to the Ayatollah and sanctions relief worth far greater have, for example, allowed Iran to build and transfer hundreds of drones to Russia.


+100
Biden and the Democrats are evil and political criminals!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 15, 2024, 13:35
Germany is preparing for war with the Russians as early as February 2024.

The German newspaper Bild has stated that the Bundeswehr (German Armed Forces) have been preparing for a hybrid Russian attack on NATO's eastern flank that may take place in February 2024.

Source: Bild with reference to a secret Bundeswehr document

Details: Bild noted that, according to the document, escalation between NATO and russia may take place as early as February 2024.

In a classified document (Top Secret – For Official Use Only), the German Federal Ministry of Defence outlines a potential "Path to Conflict" between russia and NATO is detailed. The actions of russia and the West are described month by month, culminating in the deployment of hundreds of thousands of NATO troops and the inevitable onset of war in the summer of 2025.

Bild outlines the scenario from the document but refrains from disclosing all the information regarding the size and movement of NATO forces due to security considerations.

The Bundeswehr's scenario, Alliance Defence 2025, begins in February 2024. Russia initiates another wave of mobilisation and conscripts an additional 200,000 individuals into the army. After that, the Kremlin launches a spring offensive in Ukraine, pushing the Ukrainian army back by June.

Russia's at first covert and then increasingly overt attack on the West begins in July. Cyber attacks and other forms of hybrid warfare are anticipated, primarily in the Baltic states. Clashes occur, which russia uses as an excuse to initiate large-scale military exercises on its territory and in Belarus.

According to the scenario, this situation could escalate in October if russia deploys troops and medium-range missiles to Kaliningrad. From December 2024, an artificially induced "border conflict" and "clashes with numerous casualties" unfold in the vicinity of the Suwałki Gap (Suwalki Corridor).

At a moment when the United States may be without a leader for several weeks after the elections, russia, with the support of Belarus, repeats the 2014 invasion of Ukraine but on NATO territory. In May 2025, NATO decides on containment measures, and on D-Day, NATO deploys 300,000 military personnel to the eastern flank, including 30,000 soldiers from the Bundeswehr.

The scenario ends 30 days after D-Day. Whether NATO will restrain Russia remains an open question.
________
As long as the US is led by cowardly Democrats, the Russians can launch an offensive against EU countries.
The Russians also see power shifting to the Republicans in 2025. Therefore, only this year the Russians can quickly occupy the maximum number of EU countries
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 15, 2024, 13:36
Does Joe Biden actually want Ukraine to win?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nc14lawson-0f2ptrcc0 (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nc14lawson-0f2ptrcc0)

Biden! Resign or shoot yourself!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 15, 2024, 14:30
Germany is preparing for war with the Russians as early as February 2024.

The German newspaper Bild has stated that the Bundeswehr (German Armed Forces) have been preparing for a hybrid Russian attack on NATO's eastern flank that may take place in February 2024.

Source: Bild with reference to a secret Bundeswehr document

Details: Bild noted that, according to the document, escalation between NATO and russia may take place as early as February 2024.

In a classified document (Top Secret – For Official Use Only), the German Federal Ministry of Defence outlines a potential "Path to Conflict" between russia and NATO is detailed. The actions of russia and the West are described month by month, culminating in the deployment of hundreds of thousands of NATO troops and the inevitable onset of war in the summer of 2025.

Bild outlines the scenario from the document but refrains from disclosing all the information regarding the size and movement of NATO forces due to security considerations.

The Bundeswehr's scenario, Alliance Defence 2025, begins in February 2024. Russia initiates another wave of mobilisation and conscripts an additional 200,000 individuals into the army. After that, the Kremlin launches a spring offensive in Ukraine, pushing the Ukrainian army back by June.

Russia's at first covert and then increasingly overt attack on the West begins in July. Cyber attacks and other forms of hybrid warfare are anticipated, primarily in the Baltic states. Clashes occur, which russia uses as an excuse to initiate large-scale military exercises on its territory and in Belarus.

According to the scenario, this situation could escalate in October if russia deploys troops and medium-range missiles to Kaliningrad. From December 2024, an artificially induced "border conflict" and "clashes with numerous casualties" unfold in the vicinity of the Suwałki Gap (Suwalki Corridor).

At a moment when the United States may be without a leader for several weeks after the elections, russia, with the support of Belarus, repeats the 2014 invasion of Ukraine but on NATO territory. In May 2025, NATO decides on containment measures, and on D-Day, NATO deploys 300,000 military personnel to the eastern flank, including 30,000 soldiers from the Bundeswehr.

The scenario ends 30 days after D-Day. Whether NATO will restrain Russia remains an open question.
________
As long as the US is led by cowardly Democrats, the Russians can launch an offensive against EU countries.
The Russians also see power shifting to the Republicans in 2025. Therefore, only this year the Russians can quickly occupy the maximum number of EU countries
.

Your naivety is getting more and more embarrassing.

The document, which hints at NATO or german preparations for a possible attack by Russia, is a scenario to be used in military exercises. It is not a report by intelligence services and also no prediction of a possible war.

This scenario for military drills is a made-up situation to test military capabilities. The term Russia could also be replaced by any other state.

This article has just as much information content as a news item about a fallen bicycle in china. But it was foreseeable that this report would make your day.




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 15, 2024, 16:36

As long as the US is led by cowardly Democrats, the Russians can launch an offensive against EU countries.
The Russians also see power shifting to the Republicans in 2025. Therefore, only this year the Russians can quickly occupy the maximum number of EU countries
.

Then enlighten us as to why the Russians are waiting until the election is decided. Why should they wait? According to your great logic, they should have taken over the whole of Europe since Biden took office.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 16, 2024, 04:16
https://www.forexlive.com/news/reports-iran-fired-a-ballistic-missile-which-struck-near-the-us-consulate-in-erbil-iraq-20240115/ (https://www.forexlive.com/news/reports-iran-fired-a-ballistic-missile-which-struck-near-the-us-consulate-in-erbil-iraq-20240115/)

Iran’s IRGC says it has targeted areas in Erbil, Iraqi Kurdistan, with ballistic missiles. It says the targets were the positions of “spies and dissident groups”, however Sky News says the US Consulate in Erbil has been attacked by “long-range missiles with great destructive capacity.”
Several missiles have also been shot down before hitting the US base at Erbil airport, Sky News reported.
____

When a coward and friend of the Russians sits in the White House, this will now happen very often. The United States under the Democrats has turned into a worldwide laughingstock and a clown; terrorists from all countries are and will continue to wipe their feet about the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 16, 2024, 11:57
 ;D ;D ;D
The Bundeswehr does not comment on the sensational report of the German tabloid Bild regarding NATO's preparations for war with Russia, but confirms that it takes the Russian threat seriously.
Mitko Müller, a representative of the press service of the German Ministry of Defense, said this at a briefing on Monday.

"Basically, I can neither confirm nor deny this media report," the officer said.

At the same time, Müller noted that the Bundeswehr, of course, takes care of current security and political threats, which also include the threat from Russia. The results of the analysis of the situation are reflected in the drawing up of plans and training exercises, as well as in the decision to place a permanent military contingent of the Bundeswehr in Lithuania.

"We wouldn't have stationed this brigade there in the coming years if the threats weren't real," Mueller noted.

He emphasized that the military leadership of Germany takes the threat seriously, therefore it conducts various exercises to increase the combat readiness of the Bundeswehr. The policy, including within NATO, remains deterrence, the officer reminded.

The day before, Bild published the points of a supposedly secret document of the German Ministry of Defense, which contains the assumption that an escalation between NATO and Russia may take place as early as February of this year, and in 2025 the bloc may come to a direct confrontation with Russian troops, approximately in the area of the Baltic states.

__________
Germans, stop drinking and being followers of the policies of KGB agent Merkel!  ;D ;D ;D
Tell your citizens the truth. Soon there will be a war with the Russians.
Actually, russia also conducted a lot of “exercises” before the attack on Ukraine.
The Germans must know that when the Russians rape and kill their women, this certainly cannot be called a training exercise.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 16, 2024, 12:25

Germans, stop drinking and being followers of the policies of KGB agent Merkel!  ;D ;D ;D
Tell your citizens the truth. Soon there will be a war with the Russians.
Actually, russia also conducted a lot of “exercises” before the attack on Ukraine.
The Germans must know that when the Russians rape and kill their women, this certainly cannot be called a training exercise.

It's really remarkable how your state of mind and level of behavior has slipped into the unbearable in the last few months.
The only thing that really frightens me is that someone with such violent fantasies is on the loose somewhere in the world.

I assume that you have also lost the basis for other topics in the forum.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 16, 2024, 13:43

Germans, stop drinking and being followers of the policies of KGB agent Merkel!  ;D ;D ;D
Tell your citizens the truth. Soon there will be a war with the Russians.
Actually, russia also conducted a lot of “exercises” before the attack on Ukraine.
The Germans must know that when the Russians rape and kill their women, this certainly cannot be called a training exercise.

It's really remarkable how your state of mind and level of behavior has slipped into the unbearable in the last few months.
The only thing that really frightens me is that someone with such violent fantasies is on the loose somewhere in the world.

I assume that you have also lost the basis for other topics in the forum.


Stocker2014 is on drugs or a russian troll. Just ignore him. He or she is living in his or her own world. A flat earther.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 16, 2024, 14:02
While our Russian troll - stocker2014 - continues to dream of Trump becoming US president, German politicians from various parties are now warning of precisely this scenario.

They are all certain that support for Ukraine and NATO will end under Trump. They are calling for a military build-up within Europe, as US support will then end. At the same time, of course, even greater flows of refugees from Ukraine are to be feared if the election goes in Trump's favor.

Sahra Wagenknecht, on the other hand, is calling for energy resources to be sourced from Russia again. I no longer know where she fits in politically. She advocates negotiations with Russia and demands that arms deliveries to Ukraine be stopped beforehand.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 16, 2024, 14:54
At the same time, of course, even greater flows of refugees from Ukraine are to be feared if the election goes in Trump's favor.

It will be so sad (but also ironic) for stocker to end-up a refugee in the Germany he is so vehemently despising, once trump will cut all US aid for Ukraine...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 16, 2024, 15:24
At the same time, of course, even greater flows of refugees from Ukraine are to be feared if the election goes in Trump's favor.

It will be so sad (but also ironic) for stocker to end-up a refugee in the Germany he is so vehemently despising, once trump will cut all US aid for Ukraine...

But he is not from Ukraine, is he?

Someone who talks about other people's mistakes concerning the Ukraine with that intensity must be fighting. As a Ukrainian, you can't abandon your people like that and demand support from others. So I absolutely cannot imagine that he is Ukrainian.

I've actually often thought that he's a Russian troll. He pretends to be happy when the Russians have losses. But in the end he only shows figures from sources that are accessible to everyone. At the same time, he propagates so vehemently for Trump, who is a comrade of Putin, that I believe this is subliminal manipulation in favor of Russian interests.  And he hints that he would be delighted if the Russians were to take over Europe. A subtle way of promoting Russian interests, but in my view absolutely conceivable.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 16, 2024, 17:03
I doubt that, Wilm.
I think is a misguided Ukrainian who is being served talking points by his Ukrainian media bubble. He is posting them unchewed, unverified, together with a lot of (understandable?) anger and maybe desperation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 16, 2024, 17:30
I doubt that, Wilm.
I think is a misguided Ukrainian who is being served talking points by his Ukrainian media bubble. He is posting them unchewed, unverified, together with a lot of (understandable?) anger and maybe desperation.

The fact is that this guy is constantly insulting the nations that are currently providing the most aid to Ukraine and has done a lot of damage here with regard to Ukraine.

In the end, we will never find out.
Either this is a stupid Ukrainian or a clever Russian troll.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 16, 2024, 17:55
It will be so sad (but also ironic) for stocker to end-up a refugee in the Germany he is so vehemently despising
+100
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 16, 2024, 17:59
And he hints that he would be delighted if the Russians were to take over Europe.
If the EU continues Merkel's policies, the EU will definitely be occupied by the Russians. And Biden and the Democrats will not be able to help the EU.
I already wrote what the EU needs to do a few days ago.
But so far the citizens of the EU countries have not yet understood that the third world war is underway and the EU is the main military target of the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 16, 2024, 18:00
I doubt that, Wilm.
I think is a misguided Ukrainian who is being served talking points by his Ukrainian media bubble. He is posting them unchewed, unverified, together with a lot of (understandable?) anger and maybe desperation.

The fact is that this guy is constantly insulting the nations that are currently providing the most aid to Ukraine and has done a lot of damage here with regard to Ukraine.

In the end, we will never find out.
Either this is a stupid Ukrainian or a clever Russian troll.
Doctor! Get back to your patients. This forum is not a hospital for the mentally ill.
 ;D ;D ;D

What kind of military assistance are we talking about? The EU promised to supply Ukraine with 1 million shells in 2023. As a result, the EU supplied only 30%.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 17, 2024, 05:02
Good article. This is exactly what I write a lot about in this topic. The EU is ungrateful parasites who make friends with Russians, trade with Russians and finance Russian Na.zis. The EU's defense is provided only by the United States. This Democratic policy is ending. Now the EU will pay its debts or be occupied by the Russians.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/maybe-it-is-time-for-a-european-nuclear-weapon/ (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/maybe-it-is-time-for-a-european-nuclear-weapon/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 17, 2024, 06:28
You have to know that money doesn't fall from the sky in the EU either.

And there are also reasons why not all of the EU's financial support was provided in the form of weapons.

In addition to weapons, Ukraine also needs other support that is essential if the state is to continue to function.
- Repairing the destroyed energy infrastructure
- 5400 power generators
- Taking in refugees (which the USA, for example, does not have to do)
- Support for government spending (pensions, salaries, education...)
- Support in the medical sector
- Financial support for refugees (essential goods such as food and water, medical care, household items, emergency accommodation and cash)
- Training of soldiers
- Help to bridge funding gaps of the state
- and much more
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 17, 2024, 06:34
Then there is another problem with globalization.

Russian weapons do not work without western technology. And this continues to find its way to Russia - despite the embargo.

Unfortunately only in German:

https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Wie-westliche-Technik-Russlands-Krieg-befeuert-article24616078.html (https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Wie-westliche-Technik-Russlands-Krieg-befeuert-article24616078.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 17, 2024, 10:57
Then there is another problem with globalization.

Russian weapons do not work without western technology. And this continues to find its way to Russia - despite the embargo.

Unfortunately only in German:

https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Wie-westliche-Technik-Russlands-Krieg-befeuert-article24616078.html (https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Wie-westliche-Technik-Russlands-Krieg-befeuert-article24616078.html)
Exactly.

"Moscow easily circumvents arms embargoes through former Soviet republics such as Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and other third countries such as the United Arab Emirates.
The vast majority of supplies go through China. All three of Intel's largest chip importers are based in Hong Kong.
Until the West not ready willing to pay a higher price and ban exports to China, Thailand or the United Arab Emirates, Russian agents will not stop buying Western technology through intermediaries
."

Without the introduction of sanctions against countries that are part of the axis of evil and countries that help this axis, Europe will be under the threat of occupation and there will be war on European territory.
As for small deliveries, such as one KGB agent transferring something to another KGB agent, these are small things that the EU and US intelligence services can handle if they are cleared of KGB agents within themselves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 17, 2024, 11:03
In the USA there is always a soft and an evil policeman. Both of them work for the benefit of the United States. Trump is an evil cop. Now is the time for Trump.
Nikki Haley certainly speaks well, but I'm not sure yet that she will be an evil cop.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 17, 2024, 12:16
In the USA there is always a soft and an evil policeman. Both of them work for the benefit of the United States. Trump is an evil cop. Now is the time for Trump.
Nikki Haley certainly speaks well, but I'm not sure yet that she will be an evil cop.

wrong, trump is a dumb cop, not an evil cop.

Nobody needs dumb cops. Especially not when they are so dumb to openly admire criminals like putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 17, 2024, 15:14
Then there is another problem with globalization.

Russian weapons do not work without western technology. And this continues to find its way to Russia - despite the embargo.

Unfortunately only in German:

https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Wie-westliche-Technik-Russlands-Krieg-befeuert-article24616078.html (https://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Wie-westliche-Technik-Russlands-Krieg-befeuert-article24616078.html)

We discussed this back in August last year:

https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg590639/#msg590639 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/this-should-settle-some-different-opinions/msg590639/#msg590639)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 17, 2024, 16:02
In the USA there is always a soft and an evil policeman. Both of them work for the benefit of the United States. Trump is an evil cop. Now is the time for Trump.
Nikki Haley certainly speaks well, but I'm not sure yet that she will be an evil cop.

wrong, trump is a dumb cop, not an evil cop.

Nobody needs dumb cops. Especially not when they are so dumb to openly admire criminals like putin.

I'm afraid Trump is not stupid. And that's what makes him so dangerous!

It has often been discussed whether he is a narcissist or not. Personally, I am convinced that he is. This results in his self-centeredness in every respect.

If he needs anything, it's positive publicity at home. When he comes to power, he needs reasons to brag:

- Resolving the Ukraine conflict with Putin by making sure Ukraine gives up territory and then celebrating how quickly he got the problem under control.

- He will continue the America first policy. The subsidies in his own country will be exorbitant so that he can secure his voters for the future. And this money will then not be available to support other countries - including Ukraine.

- He will also explain to his people that Europe must look after itself and its own security, including militarily- because the USA won't pay for that any longer. This will mean that the individual European states will have to arm themselves much more. As this will be a huge financial burden, these states will also think first and foremost of themselves and, if in doubt, abandon Ukraine. The politicians in these countries will do everything they can to keep their own voters happy in the event of a greater financial burden - which would lead to letting Ukraine and other countries fall by the wayside.

And this last point is, in my view, also extremely problematic for Ukraine.

Should other conflicts then arise - in addition to Israel/Hamas/Hezbollah - such as China/Taiwan, North and South Korea and others, then even more financial resources would be tied up that would not be available to Ukraine - Putin knows this too.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 17, 2024, 16:36
Not so simple.
If Ukraine were not important, neither the EU nor the US would give it any help.
If Ukraine is occupied, this will open a good springboard for the Russians to attack the EU. Also, the Russian army will be replenished with Ukrainians, who will be forcibly mobilized for war. This is what the Russians have been doing for 10 years in the territories they occupied.
Also, the occupation of Ukraine will give a signal to all other countries that the planet earth can be occupied and fought. This will be a blow to the world order.
Do you Wilm want the war to take place on German territory? Or in other EU countries? Nobody wants this, which is why the weapons produced by the EU are transferred to Ukraine. NATO's goal is to stop the Russians on Ukrainian territory. And they need to not only be stopped, but also eliminated.
To eliminate the threat, the complete collapse of the Russian empire is also necessary. I'm not talking about China, Iran, Korea yet.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 17, 2024, 16:40

I'm afraid Trump is not stupid. And that's what makes him so dangerous!

Nah, you are overthinking it.
He is a moron and he proved it over and over again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 17, 2024, 16:53
Open all the world map. Find Ukraine. And you will see that Ukraine is the gate through which Russians = Asians (barbarians, orcs) can enter the EU. Ukraine protects the EU from the invasion of Russian orcs and zombies. If Ukraine falls, the gates to the EU will be open.
Ukrainians are a European nation. Russians are Asians and Orcs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 17, 2024, 17:47
Open all the world map. Find Ukraine. And you will see that Ukraine is the gate through which Russians = Asians (barbarians, orcs) can enter the EU. Ukraine protects the EU from the invasion of Russian orcs and zombies. If Ukraine falls, the gates to the EU will be open.
Ukrainians are a European nation. Russians are Asians and Orcs.

In the history of mankind, there has often been the view that a people should be eliminated. Unfortunately, the root of the worst example of this was on the soil of my homeland.

I never want to have to read such things again. There is no people or ethnic group that is bad per se.

What Putin is doing in Ukraine is an injustice that cries out to heaven! And it must end immediately! My sympathies are with the Ukrainian people! I can also understand that someone in such a situation would wish for the death of those who are responsible for it. I would certainly feel the same way if I were directly affected.

But when did you form the opinion that all Russians = Asians are "orcs" who must be "eliminated"? Since the war or even before?

Do you want to support Putin by giving his claim that Ukraine is full of na*is a basis for justifying the "special military operation"?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 18, 2024, 05:27
Do you want to support Putin by giving his claim that Ukraine is full of na*is a basis for justifying the "special military operation"?
No I do not want to. I wrote the modern truth and the historical truth.
Russians must be separated from the civilized world by an iron wall. Russians who hold weapons in their hands must be eliminated. The Russian Federation must be liquidated as a state entity. This empire should not be on the world map.
I have never made any calls for Na.zi.sm.

A lot of peoples of different nationalities are under Russian occupation as part of russia. The Empire must be eliminated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 18, 2024, 05:37
There is no people or ethnic group that is bad per se.
Russians are a random people who were formed recently in historical terms. They are genetic slaves and orcs. But, when the Russian empire is liquidated and Russians will be behind an iron wall for 100 years, there is a possibility that they may be reborn as people. At the moment I cannot call Russians people.

You Wilm remembered the German Na.zis. But I can assure you that even they were not orcs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 18, 2024, 06:03
There is no people or ethnic group that is bad per se.
Russians are a random people who were formed recently in historical terms. They are genetic slaves and orcs. But, when the Russian empire is liquidated and Russians will be behind an iron wall for 100 years, there is a possibility that they may be reborn as people. At the moment I cannot call Russians people.

You Wilm remembered the German Na.zis. But I can assure you that even they were not orcs.

In my opinion, you are making a really big mistake!

I assume that you are Ukrainian - I don't know. You're talking dangerously and doing a lot of damage to Ukraine.

If your views were like that long before the war started, you as an individual would give Putin a valid reason to claim that you are a na*.

If your thoughts corresponded to those of a large number of Ukrainians - and have done so since long before the start of the war, then it would be understandable why Putin would have to protect the pro-Russian inhabitants of eastern Ukraine. And it would become understandable why the West has not yet been able to decide to admit Ukraine to NATO or the EU.

So please tell me that Ukrainians in general are not like you. Otherwise I will lose my faith in the whole situation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 18, 2024, 07:29
So please tell me that Ukrainians in general are not like you. Otherwise I will lose my faith in the whole situation.
Yes it's true. You wrote everything correctly. :(

Many Ukrainians do not know the history of Ukraine, they do not know the history of russia. I mean the real story. Many Ukrainians studied history back in the USSR, where books were written under the dictation of Russian propaganda.
For the last 30 years, Ukraine has also been under attack from Russian lies and propaganda. Basically, people have little interest in such things as politics and history. I'm interested, that's why I'm writing.
But, you can find out your questions yourself by talking with many Ukrainian refugees in Germany.
You Wilm also don’t know much about the history of russia and Ukraine and have also eaten a lot of Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 18, 2024, 09:54
In China, a COVID strain was laboratory created that kills 100% of “humanized” mice.

The Chinese boasted of their “successful” experiment in a scientific journal, but Western scientists were shocked by this research.

In a Chinese laboratory, scientists, for the sake of an experiment, created a mutated strain of COVID-19, which showed 100% lethality in mice whose genes were as close as possible to human ones. This is stated in the research materials released last week in Beijing.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.01.03.574008v1.full (https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.01.03.574008v1.full)

The GX_P2V virus is a mutated version of the GX/2017 virus, which is called the “cousin” of the coronavirus as we know it. During the experiment, the researchers used laboratory mice whose genes were engineered to be similar to those of humans.

All mice infected with the GX_P2V virus died in just eight days, which the researchers noted was a "surprisingly" rapid mortality rate. The virus infected the lungs, bones, eyes, tracheas and brains of mice. The latter was serious enough to eventually lead to the death of the animals.

In the days before death, the mice rapidly lost weight, had a hunched posture, and moved extremely sluggishly. The worst thing is that their eyes turned completely white the day before they died.

“This highlights the risk of GX_P2V spreading to humans and provides a unique model for understanding the pathogenic mechanisms of viruses associated with SARS-CoV-2,” the authors write.

Francois Ballou, an epidemiology expert at the Institute of Genetics at University College London, called the study "horrible" and "completely scientifically meaningless."

He noted that the summary report of the study's results, which was made public, did not indicate what safety measures were taken during the experiment.

"The lack of this information raises concerns that some or all of this research, such as the 2016-2019 Wuhan study that likely caused the Covid-19 pandemic, was recklessly conducted without the minimum biosafety conditions and practices required for research with potential pathogens of the pandemic,” he noted.

Chinese origin of COVID-19

Last March, FBI Director Christopher Wray said the COVID-19 pandemic was likely caused by a virus leak from a laboratory in the Chinese city of Wuhan.

Specialists from the US Department of Energy, who also studied this issue, came to a similar conclusion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 18, 2024, 09:56
So, about 7 million people were killed by the Chinese coronavirus. Now the Chinese have created a new virus.
And someone will write here that there is no third world war going on on planet earth
?

Biden! Resign! Give power to the Republicans!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 18, 2024, 10:21
Chinese lab crafts mutant COVID-19 strain with 100% kill rate in ‘humanized’ mice: ‘Surprisingly’ rapid death.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/16/news/covid-19-strain-kills-100-of-infected-mice-in-chinese-lab-study/ (https://nypost.com/2024/01/16/news/covid-19-strain-kills-100-of-infected-mice-in-chinese-lab-study/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on January 18, 2024, 11:43
Europeans, start preparing parking spaces for Russian tanks!
And give more parking spaces for the luxury cars of “poor Ukrainian refugees”!
https://valahia.news/rich-ukrainian-refugees-in-romania/

(https://i.postimg.cc/W1DVnWYL/5-min-768x370.jpg)

This comment can hardly be surpassed in cynicism!

What are you trying to say? That you can bomb someone because they have a Mercedes? Or that someone is not allowed to flee if they are bombed because they have a Mercedes? Or that all Ukrainians drive big cars?

I can do without such low-level comments!

He is trying to say that rich Ukrainians do NOT go to war, they enjoy renting apartments all over Europe including about 5 luxury houses just in my street whil children of poor people are forcefully being sent to front against their will   ;)

He is trying to say that the things that are going on include people like Tetiana Glyniana who is selling food supply's to Ukranian army at enormous prices that WE pay, she just bought 3 hotels in Croatia and quickly sold them after it leaked in Croatian media. She also bought herself no less than 1500 m2 home in Brela in first row next to the beach with money Ukraine is overpaying her for food that she sold for multiple times than retail price in small stores.

And there are thousands of Tetjana Glvnianas out there  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 18, 2024, 12:45

And there are thousands of Tetjana Glvnianas out there  ;)

I would be very surprised if there were no bad people at all in Ukraine.
So it's no surprise that individuals are profiting from the situation.

Do you have any valid figures or other evidence for your assertion?

If you say there are thousands, someone must have counted them and be able to name them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 18, 2024, 17:31
Europeans, start preparing parking spaces for Russian tanks!
And give more parking spaces for the luxury cars of “poor Ukrainian refugees”!
https://valahia.news/rich-ukrainian-refugees-in-romania/

(https://i.postimg.cc/W1DVnWYL/5-min-768x370.jpg)

This comment can hardly be surpassed in cynicism!

What are you trying to say? That you can bomb someone because they have a Mercedes? Or that someone is not allowed to flee if they are bombed because they have a Mercedes? Or that all Ukrainians drive big cars?

I can do without such low-level comments!

He is trying to say that rich Ukrainians do NOT go to war, they enjoy renting apartments all over Europe including about 5 luxury houses just in my street whil children of poor people are forcefully being sent to front against their will   ;)

He is trying to say that the things that are going on include people like Tetiana Glyniana who is selling food supply's to Ukranian army at enormous prices that WE pay, she just bought 3 hotels in Croatia and quickly sold them after it leaked in Croatian media. She also bought herself no less than 1500 m2 home in Brela in first row next to the beach with money Ukraine is overpaying her for food that she sold for multiple times than retail price in small stores.

And there are thousands of Tetjana Glvnianas out there  ;)

Oh really, that's really incredible! Jesus! How evil all the Ukrainians are! Unbelievable!

Meanwhile, the billionaire Russian oligarchs and their children are going directly and personally to the front to defend Russia against the evil Ukrainians, right? Because they would never have the heart to let the financially poor average Russian fight for their fortune. What good people the Russians are compared to the Ukrainians!

And there are thousands of very rich Russians out there ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on January 18, 2024, 18:11


Oh really, that's really incredible! Jesus! How evil all the Ukrainians are! Unbelievable!

Meanwhile, the billionaire Russian oligarchs and their children are going directly and personally to the front to defend Russia against the evil Ukrainians, right? Because they would never have the heart to let the financially poor average Russian fight for their fortune. What good people the Russians are compared to the Ukrainians!

And there are thousands of very rich Russians out there ;)


Keep the focus on spending money on overpriced food so that private entities could get richer and buy hotels in in countries where taxpayers are pretty much forced to finance the war...more precisely Tetiana Glyniana and similar.

Tetjana is nicely living between Britain and Croatia, and she will never be accountable for her acts and nor will thousands like her.

And as I recall, we are not financing Russia  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on January 18, 2024, 18:19

And there are thousands of Tetjana Glvnianas out there  ;)


Do you have any valid figures or other evidence for your assertion?


I don't need to, I have gone trough a war and watched thousands of ex bus drivers, grocery sellers and similar ass.holes becoming the richest people in the country after the war.

They and their kids are regularly disabled to go to war, with anemia, flat feet or skewed spine unfortunately stopping them to become heroes which they were "helping" behind the lines.

And those are only small fish, the big ones are not even bothered to explain themself.

Those are the only winners in every war
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 18, 2024, 18:57
A courageous speech: https://twitter.com/aphysicist/status/1747868626948907325
👏👏👏

(The AI translation is making it more coherent than the version dubbed in english, indeed)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 19, 2024, 07:13
“Tatiana Glinyanaya did not buy or sell hotels in Croatia. At various times, she acquired shares (corporate rights) in Croatian companies that own hotel infrastructure facilities in Dalmatia and Berli (Croatia).

Tatiana Glinyanaya has Croatian business partners, and as of now, her corporate rights have been alienated in their favor. This step was a joint decision of Croatian business partners and Tatyana Glinjana, who have been doing business in Croatia for many years,” the lawyer said.

Vasylyshyn also provided the position of Glinyana herself - she stated that she has been engaged in entrepreneurial activities in Ukraine for more than 25 years and, in parallel, has had business projects in Croatia for about 10 years.

“Regarding the hotel business. Not a single investment of mine in the Republic of Croatia was made at the expense of profits from contracts with the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. All income of my company from providing food and logistics services to the state remains in Ukraine.

Business in Croatia was largely started by me using funds from transactions with financial instruments with the support of local partners. Also in Croatia, my companies have a significant amount of debt obligations,” says Glinjana’s position, which was provided by her lawyer.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 19, 2024, 07:20
I'll say this. There really is a lot of corruption and theft in Ukraine. A lot of KGB agents have been sent to Ukraine over the past 30 years, who, with the support of russia, have taken certain positions in various government agencies and not only government.
In countries that Russia wants to occupy, the Russians always pursue a policy of supporting local crime and corruption. This policy allowed the Russians to occupy parts of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions in 2014 without much difficulty. These policies also undermine the ability of other countries to reform and become democracies.
Personally, I have little trust in people who purchase equipment or food with government money.
I don't think there is not corruption and theft in the EU. I heard information that the loans that were provided to Ukraine over the past 30 years were also not clean, part of the money was returned illegally to the pockets of European officials.

But Ukrainian journalists work, and there are a lot of corruption cases and scandals in Ukraine. Of course, all this is beneficial to the Russians; it undermines trust in Ukraine and Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 19, 2024, 10:43


Oh really, that's really incredible! Jesus! How evil all the Ukrainians are! Unbelievable!

Meanwhile, the billionaire Russian oligarchs and their children are going directly and personally to the front to defend Russia against the evil Ukrainians, right? Because they would never have the heart to let the financially poor average Russian fight for their fortune. What good people the Russians are compared to the Ukrainians!

And there are thousands of very rich Russians out there ;)


Keep the focus on spending money on overpriced food so that private entities could get richer and buy hotels in in countries where taxpayers are pretty much forced to finance the war...more precisely Tetiana Glyniana and similar.

Tetjana is nicely living between Britain and Croatia, and she will never be accountable for her acts and nor will thousands like her.

And as I recall, we are not financing Russia  ;)

This is so wonderful! Great point! 👏👏👏

Are you now trying to say that putin's invasion of a sovereign country is justified by some weird ambition to exterminate corruption in a different country than russia, while russia is one of the most corrupt countries there is?

While putin is ruthlessly exterminating innocent civilians and children, you (like your russian friend zastavkin before) are constantly spinning and deflecting toward irrelevant matters, since you don't have any meaningful way to defend his murders and atrocities.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 19, 2024, 11:43
Front line without movement or changes. This is beneficial for the Russians; they are strengthening their army for a further offensive against the EU and Ukraine. Countries such as China, Iran, North Korea, and Belarus send weapons to Russians.

EU! Where are the shells?
Scholz! Where are the missiles?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 20, 2024, 11:28
Fascist salute legal at rallies unless it threatens public order, says Italy’s high court

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/01/19/europe/italy-fascist-salute-legal-court-intl/index.html (https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/01/19/europe/italy-fascist-salute-legal-court-intl/index.html)

 :o :o :o
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 20, 2024, 11:33
Rob Bauer, Chair of the NATO Military Committee, has warned that civilians in the West should prepare for "all-out war" with russia.

Quote: "We have to realise it's not a given that we are in peace. And that's why we have the plans. That’s why we [NATO forces] are preparing for a conflict with Russia."

"But the discussion is much wider. It is also the industrial base and also the people that have to understand they play a role."

Details: Admiral Bauer believes Sweden did the right thing by urging its population to prepare for war earlier this month.

Quote: "It starts there. The realisation that not everything is plannable and not everything is going to be hunky dory in the next 20 years."

Background: His warning came on the eve of the start of NATO's largest exercise since the Cold War, in which the alliance is practising repelling an invasion by Russian forces.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russian-foreign-minister-sergei-lavrov-holding-major-news-conference-12541713 (https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-latest-russian-foreign-minister-sergei-lavrov-holding-major-news-conference-12541713)
____
NATO! Better give weapons to Ukraine, and Ukraine will liquidate the entire Russian army.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 06:45
Biden must provide a clear plan for the victory of Ukraine. This is the demand of the Republicans!

Biden! Emigrate to russia, putin will nominate you for an award there.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 07:54
 ;D ;D ;D

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12983807/BORIS-JOHNSON-negronis-Trump-presidency-just-world-needs.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12983807/BORIS-JOHNSON-negronis-Trump-presidency-just-world-needs.html)

+100

BORIS JOHNSON: The global wokerati are trembling so violently you can hear the ice tinkling in their negronis... but a Trump presidency could be just what the world needs.

This article is about why Biden and the Democrats are ass.holes, motherfuckers, turds, asss, shitass and blockheads. An article about why only Trump can restore justice in the world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 21, 2024, 09:14
;D ;D ;D

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12983807/BORIS-JOHNSON-negronis-Trump-presidency-just-world-needs.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12983807/BORIS-JOHNSON-negronis-Trump-presidency-just-world-needs.html)

+100

BORIS JOHNSON: The global wokerati are trembling so violently you can hear the ice tinkling in their negronis... but a Trump presidency could be just what the world needs.

This article is about why Biden and the Democrats are ass.holes, motherfuckers, turds, asss, shitass and blockheads. An article about why only Trump can restore justice in the world.

You're using Boris Johnson of all people for your argument here? ::)


Did you know that Trump has subsidized farmers - only in Iowa - with more money than the US has provided for Ukraine? You have an idea what "America First" will mean, don't you?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 10:12
Euronews is a fake news agency.

Today they published a lie with the following title:
"Russia-Ukraine war: Ukrainian strike on Donetsk sees death toll climb to at least 25"

https://www.euronews.com/2024/01/21/russia-ukraine-war-at-least-13-dead-in-new-strike-zelenskyy-brands-trumps-rhetoric-dangero (https://www.euronews.com/2024/01/21/russia-ukraine-war-at-least-13-dead-in-new-strike-zelenskyy-brands-trumps-rhetoric-dangero)

This is a lie and Russian propaganda! Euronews refers to statements by the Russian occupation administration.
In the occupied Ukrainian territory, Russian Na.zis have been committing war crimes and sacrificing people for 10 years, after which they blame Ukraine for these crimes. Now Euronews also supports Russian Na.zis.
The EU is increasingly supporting the Russians while demanding that its security be supported by the US. These parasites in the EU criticize the US, but rarely criticize the Russians. I think Trump will restore order in the EU very quickly.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 10:14
You're using Boris Johnson of all people for your argument here? ::)
Compared to your Merkel and Scholz (friends of the Russians), really, who is Johnson...
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 10:17
Did you know that Trump has subsidized farmers - only in Iowa - with more money than the US has provided for Ukraine? You have an idea what "America First" will mean, don't you?
Just so you know, 90% of the money Biden gives to Ukraine remains in the United States. The government pays all this money to factories in the United States so that these factories produce weapons. This is support for the American economy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 21, 2024, 10:20
but a Trump presidency could be just what the world needs.

Yes, this is that trump's "peace plan", he brags about everywhere.
Good luck as a russian colony again!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 10:38
Zero Talent, did you draw it yourself?  ;D

The elections will show which of us is right. I will support any Republican president. The main thing is that Democrats should never be in power in the United States again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 21, 2024, 11:00
Zero Talent, did you draw it yourself?  ;D

No, that's trump's secret peace plan being leaked. Don't you recognize the moron's handwriting and childish style?

Anyway, you keep on forgetting that trump is a republican in name only.

In reality, he is maga populist and isolationist, who always admired putin.
He will certainly give putin what he wants and then chest-beat himself for having saved the world from WWWIII.
Even if the map is a joke, it is not far from the truth. Sometimes it takes jokes to wake people up.

You will, sooner or later, also wake up and learn all this the hard way, since now you are in the middle of a wet dream about trump and the republican party.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 11:07
Zero Talent, did you draw it yourself?  ;D

No, that's trump's secret peace plan being leaked. Don't you recognize the moron's handwriting and childish style?

Anyway, you keep on forgetting that trump is a republican in name only.

In reality, he is maga populist and isolationist, who always admired putin.
He will certainly give putin what he wants and then chest-beat himself for having saved the world from WWWIII.
Even if the map is a joke, it is not far from the truth. Sometimes it takes jokes to wake people up.

You will, sooner or later, also wake up and learn all this the hard way, since now you are in the middle of a wet dream about trump and the republican party.
::)
Boris Johnson is more convincing than you.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 21, 2024, 12:02
Did you know that Trump has subsidized farmers - only in Iowa - with more money than the US has provided for Ukraine? You have an idea what "America First" will mean, don't you?
Just so you know, 90% of the money Biden gives to Ukraine remains in the United States. The government pays all this money to factories in the United States so that these factories produce weapons. This is support for the American economy.

I have not checked whether this is true, but if so, isn't that what you want? Haven't you stated repeatedly in the past that the Ukraine does not need money, but weapons?

So where is the problem, when the US money is used to produce weapons for the Ukraine?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 12:19
Did you know that Trump has subsidized farmers - only in Iowa - with more money than the US has provided for Ukraine? You have an idea what "America First" will mean, don't you?
Just so you know, 90% of the money Biden gives to Ukraine remains in the United States. The government pays all this money to factories in the United States so that these factories produce weapons. This is support for the American economy.

I have not checked whether this is true, but if so, isn't that what you want? Haven't you stated repeatedly in the past that the Ukraine does not need money, but weapons?

So where is the problem, when the US money is used to produce weapons for the Ukraine?
I did not write there were problems. There are no problems. I saw that Wilm thinks (and this is how it is presented in the press) that money from Biden goes to the budget of Ukraine. Therefore, I explained how US money actually moves.
Maybe not 90% stay in the USA, but 75%, for example. But I read approximately these numbers.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on January 21, 2024, 12:46
Did you know that Trump has subsidized farmers - only in Iowa - with more money than the US has provided for Ukraine? You have an idea what "America First" will mean, don't you?
Just so you know, 90% of the money Biden gives to Ukraine remains in the United States. The government pays all this money to factories in the United States so that these factories produce weapons. This is support for the American economy.

I have not checked whether this is true, but if so, isn't that what you want? Haven't you stated repeatedly in the past that the Ukraine does not need money, but weapons?

So where is the problem, when the US money is used to produce weapons for the Ukraine?
I did not write there were problems. There are no problems. I saw that Wilm thinks (and this is how it is presented in the press) that money from Biden goes to the budget of Ukraine. Therefore, I explained how US money actually moves.
Maybe not 90% stay in the USA, but 75%, for example. But I read approximately these numbers.

Then you withdraw your previous complaints that Biden mostly gives money instead of weapons?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 13:53
Did you know that Trump has subsidized farmers - only in Iowa - with more money than the US has provided for Ukraine? You have an idea what "America First" will mean, don't you?
Just so you know, 90% of the money Biden gives to Ukraine remains in the United States. The government pays all this money to factories in the United States so that these factories produce weapons. This is support for the American economy.

I have not checked whether this is true, but if so, isn't that what you want? Haven't you stated repeatedly in the past that the Ukraine does not need money, but weapons?

So where is the problem, when the US money is used to produce weapons for the Ukraine?
I did not write there were problems. There are no problems. I saw that Wilm thinks (and this is how it is presented in the press) that money from Biden goes to the budget of Ukraine. Therefore, I explained how US money actually moves.
Maybe not 90% stay in the USA, but 75%, for example. But I read approximately these numbers.

Then you withdraw your previous complaints that Biden mostly gives money instead of weapons?
No.
1. Very little military assistance was provided.
2. 40% of the money was spent on non-military aid.
3. Military assistance did not include necessary type of weapons that Ukraine needed most.
4. When I write that Ukraine needs not money but weapons, this is my response to the media (and the authors of this forum) and also an indication that Ukraine is not provided with the necessary type of weapons.
5. And these claims apply not only to Biden, but also to the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 13:59
Fighters of the 47th Separate Mechanized Brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine showed a video of the battle in the Avdiivka direction on their Telegram channel. "We do not aim to shock any of you... We show the war as it is! On that day, the soldiers knocked out the enemy from one of the positions in the Avdiivka direction," the fighters write.

https://www.ostro.org/upload/media/2024/01/20/img-1239.MP4 (https://www.ostro.org/upload/media/2024/01/20/img-1239.MP4)

Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers eliminate Russian orcs.  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 21, 2024, 17:03
Avdiivka, Ukraine. War crimes of the Russian army.

https://t.me/air_alert_telegram/76117 (https://t.me/air_alert_telegram/76117)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 21, 2024, 17:08
Zero Talent, did you draw it yourself?  ;D


He will certainly give putin what he wants and then chest-beat himself for having saved the world from WWWIII.


Exactly this is what‘s gonna happen!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on January 22, 2024, 15:02
Last night I heard something that seemed to explain all the craziness - and dangers - in the world today: "When people don't feel validated, they will create situations or relationships that make them feel valued."

It kind of explains so much. Why good teenagers join destructive gangs, why otherwise sane people join extremist groups and readily take on crazy conspiracy theories, or all their integrity and morals go out the window and blindly follow immoral leaders. Why the woke movement, which started off as a good thing - has gone to crazy extremes, especially among the Millennials and Gen Zs via social media.

Roger Ailes knew this when he started Fox News - to speak to the 'forgotten people'. And how Trump quickly learnt how to pander to and manipulate that base. Of course, Trump himself is a victim of all of this as well - famously trying in vain all his life to gain his father's praise. ("Look dad, I just made another million by fleecing (fund-raising off everything) my voters"  ;))


Anyway, I just wanted to post this: Fareed's Take this week. And to say, God Help America - and Go Nikki Haley!


Why much of the world worries about a Trump victory

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/01/21/fareeds-take-davos-us-election-gps-vpx.cnn

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 23, 2024, 04:11
Why much of the world worries about a Trump victory
Part of the world is afraid of him. The Russians, Iran, North Korea, all countries that are part of the axis of evil are afraid of Trump. Trump is feared by European parasites who are friends and trade with the Russians and do not want to spend EU money on security. The EU is pursuing a policy of anti-Americanism, but at the same time the Euro-parasites want the US to provide them with security. With Trump in office, the US will not provide security for the EU unless the EU starts spending money on defense. The EU should also stop trading with russia. Otherwise, very quickly at least half of the EU will be occupied by the Russians. But judging by the opinions of EU residents, they have a good attitude towards Russian orcs and Na.zis, but a bad attitude towards the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 23, 2024, 04:17
Russian missile obliterates apartment block section in Kharkiv.
Rescuers are trying to clear the rubble to find those trapped under the rubble of an apartment block section targeted by a Russian missile strike Tuesday morning.

https://youtu.be/QwNdhOeml88 (https://youtu.be/QwNdhOeml88)

https://youtu.be/cQr_4S2TFnU (https://youtu.be/cQr_4S2TFnU)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/T0udUDu2-GY (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/T0udUDu2-GY)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 23, 2024, 10:07
During the time of the hero of Ukraine Stepan Bandera in the 40s and 50s of the 20th century, Ukrainian combat troops eliminated the Russian occupiers quite successfully. And this was with zero help from democratic countries.
I think that Ukraine can wait for the Republicans in 2025 without help from the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 23, 2024, 11:07
Why much of the world worries about a Trump victory
Part of the world is afraid of him. The Russians, Iran, North Korea, all countries that are part of the axis of evil are afraid of Trump. Trump is feared by European parasites who are friends and trade with the Russians and do not want to spend EU money on security. The EU is pursuing a policy of anti-Americanism, but at the same time the Euro-parasites want the US to provide them with security. With Trump in office, the US will not provide security for the EU unless the EU starts spending money on defense. The EU should also stop trading with russia. Otherwise, very quickly at least half of the EU will be occupied by the Russians. But judging by the opinions of EU residents, they have a good attitude towards Russian orcs and Na.zis, but a bad attitude towards the USA.

Look at the moron praising Orban, Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, the same way he is praising putin ("we're getting along fine, we're getting along very well"):

https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1749104305947185414
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 23, 2024, 12:07
Look at the moron praising Orban, Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, the same way he is praising putin ("we're getting along fine, we're getting along very well"):
https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1749104305947185414
>:( >:( >:(
I saw it, I read it. But I haven’t reacted to Trump’s words for a long time. If Trump hadn't been president before, I would have thought he was an idiot. But he performed quite well as President of the United States.
He talks nonsense, but obviously for some purpose. I think he is more cunning and wants to achieve some electoral results for himself before the elections or to fool someone.
He takes actions that are unpredictable to anyone, he is not predictable.
I am only interested in the political results of the United States under Trump. And this can only be seen when he becomes president. I’m even sure that when Trump becomes president, he will be able to say idiotic things even then. But I don’t care what he says or will say, I’m only interested in the results of US policy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on January 23, 2024, 12:28
During the time of the hero of Ukraine Stepan Bandera in the 40s and 50s of the 20th century, Ukrainian combat troops eliminated the Russian occupiers quite successfully. And this was with zero help from democratic countries.
I think that Ukraine can wait for the Republicans in 2025 without help from the EU.

Bandera was a fuc.king n.a.z.i
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 23, 2024, 12:31
Look at the moron praising Orban, Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, the same way he is praising putin ("we're getting along fine, we're getting along very well"):
https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1749104305947185414
>:( >:( >:(
I saw it, I read it. But I haven’t reacted to Trump’s words for a long time. If Trump hadn't been president before, I would have thought he was an idiot. But he performed quite well as President of the United States.
He talks nonsense, but obviously for some purpose. I think he is more cunning and wants to achieve some electoral results for himself before the elections or to fool someone.
He takes actions that are unpredictable to anyone, he is not predictable.
I am only interested in the political results of the United States under Trump. And this can only be seen when he becomes president. I’m even sure that when Trump becomes president, he will be able to say idiotic things even then. But I don’t care what he says or will say, I’m only interested in the results of US policy.

Head in the sand and hand in hand with the maga cult:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on January 23, 2024, 12:33


Oh really, that's really incredible! Jesus! How evil all the Ukrainians are! Unbelievable!

Meanwhile, the billionaire Russian oligarchs and their children are going directly and personally to the front to defend Russia against the evil Ukrainians, right? Because they would never have the heart to let the financially poor average Russian fight for their fortune. What good people the Russians are compared to the Ukrainians!

And there are thousands of very rich Russians out there ;)


Keep the focus on spending money on overpriced food so that private entities could get richer and buy hotels in in countries where taxpayers are pretty much forced to finance the war...more precisely Tetiana Glyniana and similar.

Tetjana is nicely living between Britain and Croatia, and she will never be accountable for her acts and nor will thousands like her.

And as I recall, we are not financing Russia  ;)

This is so wonderful! Great point! 👏👏👏

Are you now trying to say that putin's invasion of a sovereign country is justified by some weird ambition to exterminate corruption in a different country than russia, while russia is one of the most corrupt countries there is?

While putin is ruthlessly exterminating innocent civilians and children, you (like your russian friend zastavkin before) are constantly spinning and deflecting toward irrelevant matters, since you don't have any meaningful way to defend his murders and atrocities.

If Russia planned to deploy nuclear weapons in Canada, US would do the same. They are the same. US are not bothered for 10.000 children killed in Gaza in couple of weeks with the weapons they financed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Lizard on January 23, 2024, 12:35
Look at the moron praising Orban, Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, the same way he is praising putin ("we're getting along fine, we're getting along very well"):
https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1749104305947185414
>:( >:( >:(
I saw it, I read it. But I haven’t reacted to Trump’s words for a long time. If Trump hadn't been president before, I would have thought he was an idiot. But he performed quite well as President of the United States.
He talks nonsense, but obviously for some purpose. I think he is more cunning and wants to achieve some electoral results for himself before the elections or to fool someone.
He takes actions that are unpredictable to anyone, he is not predictable.
I am only interested in the political results of the United States under Trump. And this can only be seen when he becomes president. I’m even sure that when Trump becomes president, he will be able to say idiotic things even then. But I don’t care what he says or will say, I’m only interested in the results of US policy.

Head in the sand and hand in hand with the maga cult:

US president has same relevance as traffic lights in GTA. Even dementia is not a problem. When he plans to say something wrong cutting off his mike is regular procedure.   ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on January 23, 2024, 15:32
The truth about Trump's last term in office:

1. Trump was bad for the US and world economy.** Trump raised US Debt by nearly $8 trillion. In only 4 years he contributed to nearly 1/4 of its current national debt, more than any other president in that time frame. Excessive debt has a very negative impact on a country's economy, particularly mid- and long-term, and on other countries as well.

https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump (https://www.propublica.org/article/national-debt-trump)

2. During his 4 years in office, his administration rolled back 100 environment rules and legislation. USA is currently facing a climate crisis according to a long-awaited federal climate report, (November 2023) which delivered a blunt warning: Rapidly curb planet-warming emissions or face dire consequences to human health, infrastructure and the economy.  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-changes-threatens-every-facet-of-u-s-society-federal-report-warns/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-changes-threatens-every-facet-of-u-s-society-federal-report-warns/)

3. Trump's mental health can be a serious danger to America and the rest of the world. In Trumps final weeks in office, General Milley, head of the Pentagon's Joint Chief's had to stop Trump's 'going rogue' on China. "General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable, and everything is going to be okay," Milley told him. "We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you." In a second call, Milley told Li, "We are 100 percent steady. Everything's fine. But democracy can be sloppy sometimes."

Milley made the second call because he believed Trump, enraged at his loss, had suffered a mental decline after the November 3 outcome — a view Milley shared with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. The authors of a book released in 2021 obtained a transcript of a call between Pelosi and Milley in which Pelosi told the general, "He's crazy. You know he's crazy," referring to Trump.
  https://www.voanews.com/a/6227396.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/6227396.html)

4. Trump wants USA to leave NATO. According to a recent POLITICO news report, during the 2020 World Economic Forum in Davos, then US President Donald Trump told European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, in a private meeting, the following: “you need to understand that if Europe is under attack we will never come to help you and to support you, and by the way NATO is dead, and we will leave, we will quit NATO.”  https://www.weeklyblitz.net/featured/trump-tells-ursula-von-der-leyen-nato-is-dead-and-we-will-leave/ (https://www.weeklyblitz.net/featured/trump-tells-ursula-von-der-leyen-nato-is-dead-and-we-will-leave/)


** The problem with economies is that the economic cycle is on average about 6 years. Presidents often inherit the previous president's good - or bad - economic decisions at the beginning of their term.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on January 23, 2024, 16:38
Part of the world is afraid of him. The Russians, Iran, North Korea, all countries that are part of the axis of evil are afraid of Trump.

Good one!  That made me laugh out loud! 

He is completely in Putin's pocket and had a bromance with Kim Jong-Un - yes, they're totally afraid!  He did assassinate an Iranian terrorist leader so that was something - so far without any negative consequences, maybe the Iranians would be afraid of having an unhinged lunatic in the White House again.  But Putin?  Get serious. Why would Putin spend so much time and effort to get Trump elected if he was afraid of him?  Putin was much more afraid of Hillary Clinton than of Trump.

With Trump in office, the US will not provide security for the EU unless the EU starts spending money on defense. The EU should also stop trading with Russia.

I agree with your second sentence above, but not the first.  if Trump got back in he would pull out of NATO and hand Ukraine to his good buddy Putin on day one.  His supporters would say what a good job he did ending the war.  Maybe he would sit down with Putin and figure out how to divide up the rest of Europe as well.  The only thing Orange Jesus cares about is himself - anyone who thinks otherwise is naive or deluded.  Or just plain stupid.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 23, 2024, 16:42
The truth about Trump's last term in office:

1. Trump was bad for the US and world economy.** Trump raised US Debt by nearly $8 trillion. In only 4 years he contributed to nearly 1/4 of its current national debt, more than any other president in that time frame. Excessive debt has a very negative impact on a country's economy, particularly mid- and long-term, and on other countries as well.

2. During his 4 years in office, his administration rolled back 100 environment rules and legislation. USA is currently facing a climate crisis according to a long-awaited federal climate report, (November 2023) which delivered a blunt warning: Rapidly curb planet-warming emissions or face dire consequences to human health, infrastructure and the economy.  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-changes-threatens-every-facet-of-u-s-society-federal-report-warns/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-changes-threatens-every-facet-of-u-s-society-federal-report-warns/)

3. Trump's mental health can be a serious danger to America and the rest of the world. In Trumps final weeks in office, General Milley, head of the Pentagon's Joint Chief's had to stop Trump's 'going rogue' on China. "General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable, and everything is going to be okay," Milley told him. "We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you." In a second call, Milley told Li, "We are 100 percent steady. Everything's fine. But democracy can be sloppy sometimes."

Milley made the second call because he believed Trump, enraged at his loss, had suffered a mental decline after the November 3 outcome — a view Milley shared with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. The authors of a book released in 2021 obtained a transcript of a call between Pelosi and Milley in which Pelosi told the general, "He's crazy. You know he's crazy," referring to Trump.
  https://www.voanews.com/a/6227396.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/6227396.html)

4. Trump wants USA to leave NATO. According to a recent POLITICO news report, during the 2020 World Economic Forum in Davos, then US President Donald Trump told European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen, in a private meeting, the following: “you need to understand that if Europe is under attack we will never come to help you and to support you, and by the way NATO is dead, and we will leave, we will quit NATO.”  https://www.weeklyblitz.net/featured/trump-tells-ursula-von-der-leyen-nato-is-dead-and-we-will-leave/ (https://www.weeklyblitz.net/featured/trump-tells-ursula-von-der-leyen-nato-is-dead-and-we-will-leave/)


** The problem with economies is that the economic cycle is on average about 8 years. Presidents often inherit the previous president's good - or bad - economic decisions at the beginning of their term. A president should be judged at the end of their term on whether they were good or bad for the economy.


Yes, Trump is dangerous! For NATO, for the Ukraine and for the rest of the world.

And unfortunately, I am relatively certain that he will win the election. After that, we can all prepare ourselves for massive problems. And anyone sitting there in the USA who believes that this will be a problem for the rest of the world and not for the USA is wrong!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 23, 2024, 16:45
Part of the world is afraid of him. The Russians, Iran, North Korea, all countries that are part of the axis of evil are afraid of Trump.

Good one!  That made me laugh out loud! 

He is completely in Putin's pocket and had a bromance with Kim Jong-Un - yes, they're totally afraid!  He did assassinate an Iranian terrorist leader so that was something - so far without any negative consequences, maybe the Iranians would be afraid of having an unhinged lunatic in the White House again.  But Putin?  Get serious. Why would Putin spend so much time and effort to get Trump elected if he was afraid of him?  Putin was much more afraid of Hillary Clinton than of Trump.

With Trump in office, the US will not provide security for the EU unless the EU starts spending money on defense. The EU should also stop trading with Russia.

I agree with your second sentence above, but not the first.  if Trump got back in he would pull out of NATO and hand Ukraine to his good buddy Putin on day one.  His supporters would say what a good job he did ending the war.  Maybe he would sit down with Putin and figure out how to divide up the rest of Europe as well.  The only thing Orange Jesus cares about is himself - anyone who thinks otherwise is naive or deluded.  Or just plain stupid.


Absolutely correct!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 23, 2024, 17:03
In my view, Trump is a person who craves recognition. It is his elixir of life.

How does he get this important drug?

If he gets rid of the Ukraine conflict as quickly as possible. Supporting Ukraine costs money. He lacks this money at home in the USA to be celebrated by his supporters and, maybe, his opponents. Ukraine only brings losses. Losses are bad for your own agenda.

Gains - that's what Trump needs. A few billion in subsidies for farmers, a few billion for the coal industry and so on. That lifts the mood in the USA. Ukraine is too far away and won't win votes. The music is playing at home. In the USA. America first.

And once people there are better off because they have more money in their pockets, the model works.

He probably doesn't care at all whether people in Europe are beating their heads in. He doesn't care about that. He is probably even aware that this could possibly have an impact on the USA. But it's still so secondary to his ego that he doesn't care for the time being. The cheers of the crowd come first.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 04:59
Elimination of a Russian tank  ;D ;D ;D

https://t.me/supernova_plus/27520 (https://t.me/supernova_plus/27520)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 05:01
 ;D ;D ;D
Il-76 aircraft crashes in Russia's Belgorod Oblast: Ukrainian Armed Forces confirm operation.

https://t.me/war_monitor/14138 (https://t.me/war_monitor/14138)

There were also 63 Russian terrorists on the plane.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 05:05
Head in the sand and hand in hand with the maga cult:
No, I roughly understand why Trump made this statement. But I won’t write my guesses just yet. Trump has already begun his policy, it will be fully visible only when he becomes president.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 05:12
In my view, Trump is a person who craves recognition. It is his elixir of life.

How does he get this important drug?

If he gets rid of the Ukraine conflict as quickly as possible. Supporting Ukraine costs money. He lacks this money at home in the USA to be celebrated by his supporters and, maybe, his opponents. Ukraine only brings losses. Losses are bad for your own agenda.

Gains - that's what Trump needs. A few billion in subsidies for farmers, a few billion for the coal industry and so on. That lifts the mood in the USA. Ukraine is too far away and won't win votes. The music is playing at home. In the USA. America first.

And once people there are better off because they have more money in their pockets, the model works.

He probably doesn't care at all whether people in Europe are beating their heads in. He doesn't care about that. He is probably even aware that this could possibly have an impact on the USA. But it's still so secondary to his ego that he doesn't care for the time being. The cheers of the crowd come first.
Wilm, the entire US military industry belongs to the Republicans. Money directed to military factories will give the Republicans orders and profits. The war in Ukraine and the sending of weapons to Ukraine is primarily beneficial only to the Republicans. And we also see this in the cowardly and hypocritical policies of Biden and the Democrats. It is simply not profitable for Democrats to spend a lot of money on weapons; this money ends up going to Republicans.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 05:19
AMK2022, I read the propaganda from the Democrats that you published here.  ;D

I'm not analyzing Biden or Trump in terms of benefit to the United States. The President of the United States is, first and foremost, the President of the entire planet earth. So it was and so it is. Therefore, let US citizens decide for themselves who their president will be. And I only write about what kind of US president the planet earth needs. And this is definitely not turd Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 05:22
if Trump got back in he would pull out of NATO and hand Ukraine to his good buddy Putin on day one. 
::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Perry on January 24, 2024, 06:28
The President of the United States is, first and foremost, the President of the entire planet earth. So it was and so it is. Therefore, let US citizens decide for themselves who their president will be.

What a strange contradiction.

Also go tell the Xi or Putin that POTUS is their president and see how that goes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on January 24, 2024, 06:41
;D ;D ;D
Il-76 aircraft crashes in Russia's Belgorod Oblast: Ukrainian Armed Forces confirm operation.

There were also 63 Russian terrorists on the plane.
On board were 65 captive soldiers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, as well as three accompanying persons and six crew members.
They were transported for exchange.
The exchange of captive between Russia and Ukraine could take place according to the formula 192 to 192. Another Il-76 plane with 80 Ukrainian captive turned back over the Belgorod region after the first plane crash.  :'(
The Ukrainian leadership was well aware of the impending exchange and was informed of how the prisoners would be delivered. But the IL-76 plane was shot down by three missiles, either with anti-aircraft missile systems or Patriot, or with German-made IRIS.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 06:49
The President of the United States is, first and foremost, the President of the entire planet earth. So it was and so it is. Therefore, let US citizens decide for themselves who their president will be.

What a strange contradiction.

Also go tell the Xi or Putin that POTUS is their president and see how that goes.
Why say anything to terrorists and war criminals? The fate of the Russian empire and the fate of the Chinese empire depends only on US policy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 24, 2024, 07:53
Head in the sand and hand in hand with the maga cult:
No, I roughly understand why Trump made this statement. But I won’t write my guesses just yet. Trump has already begun his policy, it will be fully visible only when he becomes president.

Right. QAnon always claimed that he was a messiah speaking a cryptic language understood only by a few. 🤣

We don't understand what he meant when he praised Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, but you do, because you know the deep meaning of his words filled with wisdom.

Welcome to the maga cult!

And btw, maga = Make Ukraine Small Again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 24, 2024, 08:05
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 24, 2024, 08:09
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 09:06
.
Is there something you wanted to tell me?
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 09:09
Head in the sand and hand in hand with the maga cult:
No, I roughly understand why Trump made this statement. But I won’t write my guesses just yet. Trump has already begun his policy, it will be fully visible only when he becomes president.

Right. QAnon always claimed that he is a messiah speaking a cryptic language understood only by a few. 🤣

We don't understand what he meant when he praised Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, but you do, because you know the deep meaning of his words filled with wisdom.

Welcome to the maga cult!

And btw, maga = Make Ukraine Small Again.
Trump is a Republican, so there is trust in him and there is trust in his party.
I have zero trust in any democrat.
The future will show why Trump praises Orban. No conclusions can be drawn yet.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 24, 2024, 09:47
.
Is there something you wanted to tell me?
 ;D ;D ;D
Although most things have to be repeated to make an impression on you, this was simply a double post made when attempting to refresh a frozen page.
You don't have to search for its hidden meaning, the same way you do when trying to explain trump's praise for Ukraine's enemies, Orban and putin.

It was not a QAnon drop.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 10:29
.
Is there something you wanted to tell me?
 ;D ;D ;D
Although most things have to be repeated to make an impression on you, this was simply a double post made when attempting to refresh a frozen page.
You don't have to search for its hidden meaning, the same way you do when trying to explain trump's praise for Ukraine's enemies, Orban and putin.

It was not a QAnon drop.
Ok.
Even if you are partially right (which is unlikely  :D), all responsibility for Trump and his actions will lie with the Republican Party and Republican voters. I have no right to criticize Republican voters and their party for their choices.
But, personally, I see some interesting actions on Trump's part. As I already said, I will not comment on this for now.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 24, 2024, 11:30
;D ;D ;D
Il-76 aircraft crashes in Russia's Belgorod Oblast: Ukrainian Armed Forces confirm operation.

There were also 63 Russian terrorists on the plane.
On board were 65 captive soldiers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, as well as three accompanying persons and six crew members.
They were transported for exchange.
The exchange of captive between Russia and Ukraine could take place according to the formula 192 to 192. Another Il-76 plane with 80 Ukrainian captive turned back over the Belgorod region after the first plane crash.  :'(
The Ukrainian leadership was well aware of the impending exchange and was informed of how the prisoners would be delivered. But the IL-76 plane was shot down by three missiles, either with anti-aircraft missile systems or Patriot, or with German-made IRIS.

That's the info your chief is spreading. But there are at least 4 other versions. Let's wait and see.

As a rule, it is more the Russians who have a certain routine of shooting down planes by mistake and then point the finger at others, e.g. Malaysia Airlines MH 17
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 11:46
"When assessing any events, one should remember that absolutely everything that the Russian side claims is always a lie. There are no exceptions.
The regular lies of the statements and statements of the Russian side have been completely and in detail exposed by all the world's media, agencies, experts and authoritative criminologists.

All the dots have long been dotted.
The examples of Boeing MH 17, Bucha, Mariupol, Kramatorsk, Kharkov and hundreds of other crimes of the Putin regime leave no doubt that his regime always lies.
For this reason, one should not pay any attention to what the Russian side declares. Evaluating any Russian statements is always a waste of time.
About the plane:
Relatively verified and possibly reliable information is the following:
▪️Judging by all the geodata, the plane was not flying to Belgorod, but from Belgorod towards the central part of Russia and was shot down over Yablonovo.
▪️Before landing in Belgorod, this plane was observed over Egypt and Syria.
▪️Prisoners have never been transported by air to the exchange site.
▪️There are no bodies or their fragments on the crash field.
▪️There is no evidence that the transport ship was filled with prisoners.
▪️Emergency Ministry forces, criminologists, experts and doctors have been removed from the crash site.
▪️The territory is cordoned off by the FSB and the Russian Ministry of Defense.

Nevzorov
"

"It turned out that the lists of UAF prisoners of war allegedly killed on the plane include 18 people exchanged on January 3.

Defenders of the Ukrainian Armed Forces who were captured tell how they were guarded during the exchange. For every captured Ukrainian there were 0.5 guards from the Russian Federation.
Guarding 60 prisoners with just three guards is impossible."

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/13693

https://t.me/nevzorovtv/13694
___________

The fact that a Russian plane was shot down is very good.  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 12:47
All this, of course, is chantage and intimidation on the part of the Russians. There are registered prisoners of war whom the Russians can shoot. Perhaps the Russian Na.zis are preparing such a blow.
The Russians shoot prisoners, kill civilians, and bomb Ukrainian cities. Russians this evil.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on January 24, 2024, 15:51
AMK2022, I read the propaganda from the Democrats non-political Truth about Trump's last term in office that you published here.  ;D



"The truth will set you free, but first it will p.ss you off." ~ Gloria Steinem (perhaps)

 ;)


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 24, 2024, 17:03
British men and women should be prepared for a “whole-of-nation undertaking” if Nato goes to war with Russia, warns the head of the British army.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-war-russia-putin-nato-b2483837.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-war-russia-putin-nato-b2483837.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 24, 2024, 17:27
Head in the sand and hand in hand with the maga cult:
No, I roughly understand why Trump made this statement. But I won’t write my guesses just yet. Trump has already begun his policy, it will be fully visible only when he becomes president.

Right. QAnon always claimed that he is a messiah speaking a cryptic language understood only by a few. 🤣

We don't understand what he meant when he praised Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, but you do, because you know the deep meaning of his words filled with wisdom.

Welcome to the maga cult!

And btw, maga = Make Ukraine Small Again.
Trump is a Republican, so there is trust in him and there is trust in his party.
I have zero trust in any democrat.
The future will show why Trump praises Orban. No conclusions can be drawn yet.

Trump lies at least as much as Putin and the Russians. And large sections of the Republicans support or condone these lies.

You condemn the lies of the Russians. You accept Trump's lies. Do you realize that the two are cut from the same cloth in many respects?

You're just blind to the truth with your tunnel vision. Enlightenment will come for you too. But it will not be a pleasant experience. At least not if Trump wins.

The biggest difference between you and me is that you long for Trump, while for me it's an absolute horror scenario. It's not so much about Democrats and Republicans for me. There are pros and cons in both camps. But Trump is a huge threat to us all!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on January 24, 2024, 18:08


The biggest difference between you and me is that you long for Trump, while for me it's an absolute horror scenario. It's not so much about Democrats and Republicans for me. There are pros and cons in both camps. But Trump is a huge threat to us all!

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 03:55
Head in the sand and hand in hand with the maga cult:
No, I roughly understand why Trump made this statement. But I won’t write my guesses just yet. Trump has already begun his policy, it will be fully visible only when he becomes president.

Right. QAnon always claimed that he is a messiah speaking a cryptic language understood only by a few. 🤣

We don't understand what he meant when he praised Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, but you do, because you know the deep meaning of his words filled with wisdom.

Welcome to the maga cult!

And btw, maga = Make Ukraine Small Again.
Trump is a Republican, so there is trust in him and there is trust in his party.
I have zero trust in any democrat.
The future will show why Trump praises Orban. No conclusions can be drawn yet.

Trump lies at least as much as Putin and the Russians. And large sections of the Republicans support or condone these lies.

You condemn the lies of the Russians. You accept Trump's lies. Do you realize that the two are cut from the same cloth in many respects?

You're just blind to the truth with your tunnel vision. Enlightenment will come for you too. But it will not be a pleasant experience. At least not if Trump wins.

The biggest difference between you and me is that you long for Trump, while for me it's an absolute horror scenario. It's not so much about Democrats and Republicans for me. There are pros and cons in both camps. But Trump is a huge threat to us all!
All politicians lie, and Biden is the number one liar.
I don’t need the truth from Trump, I don’t really care what he says. In democratic countries, do people go to prison for words? This is exactly what you demand, you want Trump to be put in prison for what he says. So which of us is a democrat, you or me?
From a politician I only need correct and effective policies and results. When Trump was president, or any Republican, the results were good. I have criticized Republican presidents little, if at all. But democrats are evil and friends of world evil.
Equating Trump with Russians is stupid. Trump doesn't kill Ukrainians.
Trump is likely to win unless Democrats resort to legal restrictions against him. For now, Trump is in the lead.

Of course Trump is a threat to parasites in Germany. Germany will be banned from trading with Russians and forced to spend money on security. Of course you want to live off the USA. But this chaos is coming to an end. Get ready for war with Russia or prepare parking lots for Russian tanks.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 03:57


The biggest difference between you and me is that you long for Trump, while for me it's an absolute horror scenario. It's not so much about Democrats and Republicans for me. There are pros and cons in both camps. But Trump is a huge threat to us all!

+100
-1000
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 05:23
Ukrainian film "20 days in Mariupol" nominated for "Oscar 2024"

The 96th award ceremony will take place in Los Angeles on the night of March 10-11.

The tape also received two nominations for the British Academy of Television and Film BAFTA - "Best Documentary" and "Non-English Language Film". And the director Mstislav Chernov was nominated for the award of the American Directors Guild in the nomination "Best Directorial Achievements in Documentary"

(https://i.gyazo.com/87c735eed73e3bdfe84460f414b7f266.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 05:30
There is information that Democrats are funding Nikki Haley.  >:( >:( >:(

Billionaires Stanley Druckenmiller, Henry Kravis, Ken Langone and Cliff Asness are scheduled to co-host a New York fundraiser for Haley on Jan. 30. If Haley’s well-heeled supporters decide she does not have a path to victory, they could cut off funding and essentially end her candidacy.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/wall-street-donors-keep-haley-s-2024-run-afloat-even-if-voters-won-t/ar-BB1hcodN (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/wall-street-donors-keep-haley-s-2024-run-afloat-even-if-voters-won-t/ar-BB1hcodN)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 05:35
The winner of the "Miss Japan 2024" contest was ethnic Ukrainian, 26-year-old model Karolina Shiino. She will represent Japan at the Miss Universe pageant.
Karolina was born in Ternopil, Ukraine, and moved to Japan at the age of five when her mother married a Japanese man.
On social media, Carolina's victory ignited a debate about what it means to be Japanese. In particular, some Twitter users were outraged that the title of Miss Japan was won by a model of non-Japanese descent, while others expressed a different opinion, supporting Karolina's victory. The Internet also discussed whether this decision is related to the geopolitical situation in the world and "why Western beauty is better than Asian beauty."
 ;D ;D ;D

(https://static.nv.ua/shared/system/Article/posters/002/816/190/original/d935294a95ca72da64d106e973bcec59.jpg?q=85&stamp=20240124164713&w=900&f=webp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 05:41
An oil refinery is on fire in russia.  ;D ;D ;D

https://twitter.com/WarSvitla/status/1750389938271437063 (https://twitter.com/WarSvitla/status/1750389938271437063)

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 25, 2024, 07:11
Head in the sand and hand in hand with the maga cult:
No, I roughly understand why Trump made this statement. But I won’t write my guesses just yet. Trump has already begun his policy, it will be fully visible only when he becomes president.

Right. QAnon always claimed that he is a messiah speaking a cryptic language understood only by a few. 🤣

We don't understand what he meant when he praised Ukraine's biggest enemy in Europe, but you do, because you know the deep meaning of his words filled with wisdom.

Welcome to the maga cult!

And btw, maga = Make Ukraine Small Again.
Trump is a Republican, so there is trust in him and there is trust in his party.
I have zero trust in any democrat.
The future will show why Trump praises Orban. No conclusions can be drawn yet.

Trump lies at least as much as Putin and the Russians. And large sections of the Republicans support or condone these lies.

You condemn the lies of the Russians. You accept Trump's lies. Do you realize that the two are cut from the same cloth in many respects?

You're just blind to the truth with your tunnel vision. Enlightenment will come for you too. But it will not be a pleasant experience. At least not if Trump wins.

The biggest difference between you and me is that you long for Trump, while for me it's an absolute horror scenario. It's not so much about Democrats and Republicans for me. There are pros and cons in both camps. But Trump is a huge threat to us all!


Of course Trump is a threat to parasites in Germany.


Thank you very much! One of the parasites donated money to Ukraine at the beginning of the war. And his parasite people are supporting Ukraine to a significant extent.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 07:23
I didn’t write that all Germans are parasites. The parasites in Germany are 100% politicians, big business and everyone else who is under the influence of Russian and anti-American propaganda.
I didn't write anything personal to you.  ;D

And now we are not talking about Ukraine, but about the USA, NATO and the war with the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 07:59
There is information that Democrats are funding Nikki Haley.  >:( >:( >:(

And now your are flip-flopping on Nikki Haley. 🤣
A couple of weeks ago she was the best thing since slice bread.

"I think we should start pushing Nikki #Haley2024 on Twitter. Because she is the best solution for 🇺🇸 & 🇺🇦 .

1. Biden has gambled away American resolve and deterred himself from making 🇺🇦 win

2. Trump is doom

3. Haley will unite the GOP behind 🇺🇦 because she is from the party"

+100

https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

You don't even have your own opinions, let alone be aware of realities.
You only post, unchewed, what your handler is asking you to post.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 25, 2024, 11:01
Ukraine support tracker

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker (https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 25, 2024, 11:05
And more about the parasites...

Military aid form Germany

https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514 (https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 11:58
There is information that Democrats are funding Nikki Haley.  >:( >:( >:(

And now your are flip-flopping on Nikki Haley. 🤣
A couple of weeks ago she was the best thing since slice bread.

"I think we should start pushing Nikki #Haley2024 on Twitter. Because she is the best solution for 🇺🇸 & 🇺🇦 .

1. Biden has gambled away American resolve and deterred himself from making 🇺🇦 win

2. Trump is doom

3. Haley will unite the GOP behind 🇺🇦 because she is from the party"

+100

https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

You don't even have your own opinions, let alone be aware of realities.
You only post, unchewed, what your handler is asking you to post.
1. I don't have a curator. But I think that you have a curator.  ;D
2. Not all information I publish is my personal opinion. I provide links to sources. I am also posting this for possible discussion. I do not completely agree with all the information. Also, my opinion may change depending on the emergence of new information.
Additional information appeared on Nikki Haley, I also published it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 12:03
And more about the parasites...

Military aid form Germany

https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514 (https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514)
This is not enough. This is very, very little. Everything listed there is prepared only for defense, and even then only for a short time.
Where is the aviation? Where are the Taurus missiles? Where are the tanks, at least several hundred in number? Where are the shells?
When the Republicans come to power, the EU will be placed under martial law and Germany will produce everything I have listed on a much larger scale.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 12:59
There is information that Democrats are funding Nikki Haley.  >:( >:( >:(

And now your are flip-flopping on Nikki Haley. 🤣
A couple of weeks ago she was the best thing since slice bread.

"I think we should start pushing Nikki #Haley2024 on Twitter. Because she is the best solution for 🇺🇸 & 🇺🇦 .

1. Biden has gambled away American resolve and deterred himself from making 🇺🇦 win

2. Trump is doom

3. Haley will unite the GOP behind 🇺🇦 because she is from the party"

+100

https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

You don't even have your own opinions, let alone be aware of realities.
You only post, unchewed, what your handler is asking you to post.
1. I don't have a curator.  ;D

Everyone can see your "curator" asking you to promote Nikki.

Even if that person is not your info-war handler, even if this is not just another blunder you made by revealing it, you obviously have a "curator".

Obviously, you don't have your own opinions, you don't think, you refuse to use logic and common sense, you bury your head in the sand, simply parroting other people's opinions expressed inside your information bubble.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 14:38
Everyone can see your "curator" asking you to promote Nikki.
Even if that person is not your info-war handler, even if this is not just another blunder you made by revealing it, you obviously have a "curator".
Obviously, you don't have your own opinions, you don't think, you refuse to use logic and common sense, you bury your head in the sand, simply parroting other people's opinions expressed inside your information bubble.

Zero Talent, you are clearly obsessed with conspiracy theories. I had nothing against Nikki, the main thing for me is that the Democrats do not win the elections. It's my personal opinion. If there is a choice between Nikki and Biden, I will wish Nikki victory. But as I see it, Trump is ahead of Nikki. Therefore, Nikki is eliminated from the presidential race.
Nobody asked me to support or not support Nikki. She has a rating, that's why I'm interested in her. This information about her is now in all the media. And the question arises, why are the Democrats are funding it? Perhaps because it is easier for Biden to win the election against her than against Trump.?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 25, 2024, 15:19
There is information that Democrats are funding Nikki Haley.  >:( >:( >:(

And now your are flip-flopping on Nikki Haley. 🤣
A couple of weeks ago she was the best thing since slice bread.

"I think we should start pushing Nikki #Haley2024 on Twitter. Because she is the best solution for 🇺🇸 & 🇺🇦 .

1. Biden has gambled away American resolve and deterred himself from making 🇺🇦 win

2. Trump is doom

3. Haley will unite the GOP behind 🇺🇦 because she is from the party"

+100

https://twitter.com/i/status/1744512622194528333

Nikki Haley wants to give Ukraine a lot of weapons!
+100

You don't even have your own opinions, let alone be aware of realities.
You only post, unchewed, what your handler is asking you to post.
1. I don't have a curator.  ;D

Obviously, you don't have your own opinions, you don't think, you refuse to use logic and common sense, you bury your head in the sand, simply parroting other people's opinions expressed inside your information bubble.


Yes, that's how I see it too.

Let's run through the scenario that stocker2014 loves so much.

Trump comes to power.

America first begins to take hold. No more money for Ukraine and NATO. „Let them defend themselves.“

NATO - what will be left of it - will have to act and rearm militarily. That's what will happen. But in their own countries. Nobody seriously believes that billions will go to Ukraine when the money is needed in the own country. The Baltic states, Poland, the Czech Republic etc. (former Warsaw Pact) - and of course the rest of the EU - will look after themselves and do exactly what Trump wants to do anyway. Sacrifice Ukraine and hope that Putin will then give up. That's exactly what Putin knows and that's why his trolls supported Trump in the election before last. Stocker also fails to recognize that Trump's probable election would certainly have a lot to do with Russian propaganda. He is hoping for exactly what Putin is hoping for and is therefore ultimately himself a victim of Russian propaganda, which he always criticizes so strongly.

And when Stocker keeps painting the scenario of parking lots for Russian tanks in Germany on the wall: If Trump were to win - and it is, as I said, very much to be feared - then the first parking lots to be created would be in Ukraine. That much is certain.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 15:29
Perhaps because it is easier for Biden to win the election against her than against Trump.?

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You regularly make wrong statements, easily debunkable by anyone willing to do some minimal homework, before posting nonsense.

FYI, All polls are saying that in a head-to-head competition, Nikki will crush Biden with a double-digit gap in the decisive key states battles (and also nationally). At the same time, Trump only holds a minimal advantage over Biden, if any.

I already told you that I would also vote for her, given the chance. Like me, a majority of independents, who usually decide the winner.

The same happens with some traditional donors who normally endorsed Democrats.
She is also endorsed by big-pocket Republican donors, like the libertarian Charles Koch, among many others.
This is because, between the 3 of them, she is the best candidate.

The market needs stability and predictability instead of swings triggered by trump's childish and moronic temper tantrums.

And Ukraine needs more than anyone else a non-trump presidency.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 15:30
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 15:34
the first parking lots to be created would be in Ukraine. That much is certain.
+100
They have already been created in Ukraine in 2014 and in 2022. Created thanks to the policies of Democratic presidents.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 15:36
Obviously, you don't have your own opinions, you don't think, you refuse to use logic and common sense, you bury your head in the sand, simply parroting other people's opinions expressed inside your information bubble.
Reading you, I only see what all the trolls from the Democratic Party write. You don’t write anything new, you repeat what your fellow party members say.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 15:42
FYI, All polls are saying that in a head-to-head competition, Nikki will crush Biden with a double digit gap in the decisive key states battles (and also nationaly), while Trump only holds a minimal advantage over Biden, if any.
Maybe yes, maybe not.
In any case, she will not win against Trump, which means she will not participate in the elections. Therefore, I will not waste my time on this woman and understand her motives and her sponsors.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 15:46
As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.
You regualry make wrong statements, easily debunkable by anyone willing to do some minimal homework, before posting non-sense.
What a huge ego and conceit! Are you by any chance the Messiah?
 ;D ;D ;D
or maybe you are a prophet or a psychic?
 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 15:48
Obviously, you don't have your own opinions, you don't think, you refuse to use logic and common sense, you bury your head in the sand, simply parroting other people's opinions expressed inside your information bubble.
Reading you, I only see what all the trolls from the Democratic Party write. You don’t write anything new, you repeat what your fellow party members say.

Typical trumpesque reply.

Being rightfully told that he is "putin's puppet", his only "intelligent" reaction was: "no, you are a puppet", you know... like you and any other 10-year-old.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 15:54
FYI, All polls are saying that in a head-to-head competition, Nikki will crush Biden with a double digit gap in the decisive key states battles (and also nationaly), while Trump only holds a minimal advantage over Biden, if any.
Maybe yes, maybe not.
In any case, she will not win against Trump, which means she will not participate in the elections. Therefore, I will not waste my time on this woman and understand her motives and her sponsors.

No. It's not a maybe. It's a yes.
You can't deny the polls. These are hard numbers, not opinions.

You don't waste time debating Nikki's sponsors, but you do exactly that, being the one who posted unchewed information about it, a few posts above.

Now, after chewing it a bit you want to find an exit, instead of admitting you were confused.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on January 25, 2024, 15:59
.... I am also posting this for possible discussion....

You really can't be helped. Apart from gutter language and insults, you can't come up with any arguments.
A discussion from your side has never taken place here.

The only reason I still read here is that Wilm and Zero provide very good, valid information about American politics.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 25, 2024, 15:59
What you are looking for - stocker2014 - are autocrats who will either eliminate Russia and the Russian people themselves or someone who will give Ukraine the military means to do it themselves. And that is also why you support Trump so vehemently, because you believe that one insane despot will wipe out the other. You hope the same for China.

I repeat myself: what is happening to Ukraine is evil, unjust and a catastrophe. And I very much hope for a good outcome for Ukraine!

But what you think is just as bad as what the Russians are doing. And you obviously thought that way before the attack. If it were up to you, you would raze Russia to the ground with nuclear weapons. And thus destroy all the people who never want this war - not even in Russia. That's why you're not one bit better than Putin. You are just as much of an orc as you condemn others with your pigeonhole thinking.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 25, 2024, 16:04
The only point on which I partly agree with you, stocker, is that the aid for Ukraine should be even more extensive.

But it should not include weapons to attack Russia far beyond its borders. Then we would be playing into Putin's hands, because he could claim that he was being attacked by the West. We should not do him this favor. It must be crystal clear to the end who started the conflict!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on January 25, 2024, 16:14
Perhaps because it is easier for Biden to win the election against her than against Trump.?

As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You regularly make wrong statements, easily debunkable by anyone willing to do some minimal homework, before posting non-sense.

FYI, All polls are saying that in a head-to-head competition, Nikki will crush Biden with a double digit gap in the decisive key states battles (and also nationaly), while Trump only holds a minimal advantage over Biden, if any.

I already told that I would also vote for her, given the chance. Like me a majority of independents, who usually decide the winner.

The same happens with some traditional donors who normally endorsed democrats.
She is also endorsed by big pocket Republicans donors, like the libertarian Charles Koch among many others.
This is because between the 3 of them she is the best candidate.

The market needs stability and predictability instead of swings triggered by trump's childish and moronic temper tantrums.

And Ukraine needs more than anyone else a non-trump presidency.

Yes, mega Republican donors, the Koch brothers, have pledged their support. Apparently they hate Trump.

Some commentators are saying that Haley is being funded to stay in the race to see how Trump's indictments - or his dementia - play out. (Whichever comes first  ;)) He was videoed staggering and zigzagging after the Iowa caucus.

It kind of reminds me of Weekend at Bernies - he's being propped up for his rallies and campaign speeches.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 16:20
National polls showing Haley vs Biden compared with moron vs Biden
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 16:59
Ukrainian film "20 days in Mariupol".

A film about Russian crimes in Ukraine.

https://youtu.be/X-0EFVMSgGE (https://youtu.be/X-0EFVMSgGE)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 17:03
FYI, All polls are saying that in a head-to-head competition, Nikki will crush Biden with a double digit gap in the decisive key states battles (and also nationaly), while Trump only holds a minimal advantage over Biden, if any.
Maybe yes, maybe not.
In any case, she will not win against Trump, which means she will not participate in the elections. Therefore, I will not waste my time on this woman and understand her motives and her sponsors.

No. It's not a maybe. It's definitely a yes.
You can't deny the polls. These are hard numbers, not opinions.

You don't waste time debating Nikki's sponsors, but you do exactly that, being the one who posted unchewed information about it, a few posts above.

Now, after chewing it a bit you want to find an exit, instead of admitting you were confused.
Trump is also beating Biden in the polls. And what?
I'm not confused, I posted the article exactly the same way I post all the other articles here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 17:10
What you are looking for - stocker2014 - are autocrats who will either eliminate Russia and the Russian people themselves or someone who will give Ukraine the military means to do it themselves. And that is also why you support Trump so vehemently, because you believe that one insane despot will wipe out the other. You hope the same for China.

I repeat myself: what is happening to Ukraine is evil, unjust and a catastrophe. And I very much hope for a good outcome for Ukraine!

But what you think is just as bad as what the Russians are doing. And you obviously thought that way before the attack. If it were up to you, you would raze Russia to the ground with nuclear weapons. And thus destroy all the people who never want this war - not even in Russia. That's why you're not one bit better than Putin. You are just as much of an orc as you condemn others with your pigeonhole thinking.
Absolutely not the right point of view. The Democrats' policies will lead to the Russians occupying the EU or half of the EU. That's why I support the Republicans. And as I already wrote, I will support any Republican president. And I don't think Trump is crazy. He lies like all politicians, he is a magician, you need to watch his hands.
Your opinion of the Democrats will change very quickly when rockets and shells fly into your city and when the Russians turn your city into a concentration camp. Then you will quickly realize that your hopes for the Democrats were in vain.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 17:39
I'm not confused, I posted the article exactly the same way I post all the other articles here.

Yes, exactly that.
As I said, you are posting them unchewed, unverified, without doing your homework.
You are only parroting someone's opinions, flip-flopping as the wind blows.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 25, 2024, 17:54
I'm not confused, I posted the article exactly the same way I post all the other articles here.

Yes, exactly that.
As I said, you are posting them unchewed, unverified, without doing your homework.
You are only parroting someone's opinions, flip-flopping as the wind blows.
Is posting an article a repetition of someone’s opinion?
Teacher! Come on, don't give me homework!  ;D
Yes, articles are written by authors. Yes, we all learn from someone else's articles.
If you have done your homework, you can write your article.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 25, 2024, 18:25
I'm not confused, I posted the article exactly the same way I post all the other articles here.

Yes, exactly that.
As I said, you are posting them unchewed, unverified, without doing your homework.
You are only parroting someone's opinions, flip-flopping as the wind blows.
Is posting an article a repetition of someone’s opinion?
Teacher! Come on, don't give me homework!  ;D
Yes, articles are written by authors. Yes, we all learn from someone else's articles.
If you have done your homework, you can write your article.  ;D

Yes, when you are posting articles or tweets, without using your judgment, without verification, without doing your homework, then you are only parroting someone's opinions.
You know.... like a parrot.

You are only embarrassing yourself, when you and the "curator" you are parroting are so often proven wrong.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 26, 2024, 02:59
so often proven wrong.
Conclusions:
The "Prophet" Zero Talent considers everything he writes to be smart and the only correct one.

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 26, 2024, 03:01
Ukrainian film "20 days in Mariupol".

A film about Russian crimes in Ukraine.

https://youtu.be/X-0EFVMSgGE (https://youtu.be/X-0EFVMSgGE)
___________

This film is unique in that it was filmed by Ukrainian journalists who were in Russian-occupied territories. This is unique historical footage proving Russian war crimes. These journalists were hunted by Russian Na.zis, but the journalists were able to leave Mariupol and bring out all the footage. It was a very dangerous shoot.
They documented scenes that later became iconic images of the war, depicting the deaths of children, mass burials, a bombed maternity hospital, and other horrors of Russian atrocities.
"20 Days in Mariupol" – the directorial debut of war correspondent (with experience in Syria, Nagorno-Karabakh, Libya, Iraq, Gaza Strip, and Afghanistan), photographer, videographer, and writer Mstyslav Chernov.
The film's creation also involved photographer Yevhen Maloletka and producer/journalist Vasylisa Stepanenko. All three received the Pulitzer Prize for their work in the besieged Mariupol, considered the most prestigious award in journalism.

(https://images.weserv.nl/?output=webp&url=www.liga.net/images/general/2024/01/23/20240123162716-4482.png&w=620&fit=cover&dpr=2)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 26, 2024, 05:35
Investigation into IL-76 crash, Russian chemical weapons, commemorating Holocaust victims

The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine. 
 
INVESTIGATION INTO IL-76 CRASH

On January 25, the incident with the downing of the Russian Il-76 military aircraft was discussed at a meeting of the UN Security Council.

The UN cannot verify the authenticity of Russian allegations about the presence of Ukrainian prisoners of war on board the downed aircraft.
Moscow refused an international investigation into the Il-76 incident, so it is interested not in the truth, but in manipulations.
Less than an hour after the crash, russia announced the death of Ukrainian prisoners, but for more than a day it has not been able to provide any evidence of its statements.
The incident occurred in the context of russia's invasion, so Ukraine has the legal right to attack Russian military targets.
Ukraine demands reliable information about the fate of its prisoners of war and insists on an international investigation into the incident with the IL-76 aircraft.

RUSSIAN CHEMICAL WEAPONS

Since the start of the full-scale invasion, russia has used chemical weapons against Ukrainians at least 626 times.

The Russians often use tear gas grenades, but the use of lewisite, a toxic substance containing arsenic trichloride, has also been recorded.
In December 2023, evidence was obtained of the Russians using RG-Vo grenades, which contain chloracetophenone, capable of killing a person within 5 minutes.
The use of chemical munitions is a flagrant violation of international law and of the obligations assumed by Moscow, in particular, the Geneva Protocol for the Use in War of Asphyxiating, Poisonous or Other Gases, as well as the Chemical Weapons Convention of 1993.
russia's use of chemical weapons in the war takes place amidst loud but groundless accusations against Ukraine in the operation of biological laboratories, the development of chemical and nuclear weapons, etc.
Ukraine calls on the international community to respond to russia's use of weapons of mass destruction as a dangerous precedent that undermines the foundations of global security.

COMMEMORATING HOLOCAUST VICTIMS

On January 27, 1945, the troops of the 1st Ukrainian Front liberated one of the largest Nazi death camps — Auschwitz-Birkenau. The International Day of Commemoration in Memory of the Victims of the Holocaust is timed to this date.

About a quarter of the victims of the Holocaust during World War II came from Ukraine. Together with the whole world, we commemorate the genocide of Jews by the Nazi regime.
The Holocaust testifies to the tragedies that human-hating ideology and propaganda can lead to. Unfortunately, the humanity has not yet learned this lesson.
The Russian leadership and state media resort to anti-Semitic attacks, while accusing everyone around them, including the Jews themselves, of “Nazism.”
In 2023, the Kremlin's anti-Semitic propaganda had tragic consequences: attempts to organize Jewish pogroms in the republics of the North Caucasus.
In its attempts to destroy Ukraine, russia does not hesitate to attack the Holocaust memorial sites in Babyn Yar in Kyiv and Drobytskyi Yar in Kharkiv.

Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security


https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3818551-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-investigation-into-il76-crash-russian-chemical-weapons-commemorating-holocaust-victims.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3818551-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-investigation-into-il76-crash-russian-chemical-weapons-commemorating-holocaust-victims.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 26, 2024, 05:47
russia imported $1 billion in American and European chips in 2023 despite sanctions – Bloomberg.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-25/intel-gives-bleak-forecast-in-sign-comeback-is-going-slowly?srnd=premium-europe (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-25/intel-gives-bleak-forecast-in-sign-comeback-is-going-slowly?srnd=premium-europe)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 26, 2024, 12:13
Biden is in deep crap. Will Biden last in the White House until the election?  ;D ;D ;D

Trump expressed solidarity with Texas and called on "all states to place security in Texas to prevent illegal immigrants from entering and bring them back across the border."

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has accused the Biden administration of colluding with Mexican drug cartels to smuggle migrants across the border into the United States in a “pay-per-person scheme.”
Abbott himself accused Biden of refusing to enforce immigration laws and violating constitutional rights to self-defense. He also activated Article 1, Section 10, Paragraph 3 of the US Constitution, which allows for martial law to be declared in a state and to act without regard to the federal government. "His [Biden's] actions have created an unprecedented invasion that we must defend against," Abbott said.
Governors of 25 other American states expressed their support for Abbott's actions. They signed a petition supporting Texas against the federal government. Supporters include the states of Idaho, Wyoming, North Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, Ohio and others.
The governor of South Dakota (a state in the northern United States) even proposed sending parts of the local National Guard to support Texas, and the governor of Ohio called the Biden government’s policy “a failure.”
Abbott's actions were supported by Elon Musk, who said: "Texas is absolutely right. This (Biden) administration is deliberately breaking the law by aiding and encouraging illegal immigration on an unprecedented scale."

Texas blocks federal border agents from processing migrants in Eagle Pass public park
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-blocks-federal-border-agents-processing-migrants-eagle-pass-shelby-park/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-blocks-federal-border-agents-processing-migrants-eagle-pass-shelby-park/)

Impeach Biden!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on January 26, 2024, 14:01
Trump interferes with Immigration border negotiations for his own political gain.


Republican Sen. Mitt Romney (R-UT) says that President Trump has told Republican lawmakers to not negotiate a compromise bill with President Biden that could help alleviate some of the immigration issues at the US-Mexico border.

Romney: "Its appalling how a former president can say 'please hurt the country and blame the president so it can help my politics':

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/01/25/mitt-romney-trump-border-bill-negotiation-vpx.cnn



Trump pressures republicans to block border deal


GOP strategist blasts Trump as "wrong" for trying to sink border deal.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/01/26/trump-border-deal-mcconnell-alice-stewart-maria-cardona-acosta-max.cnn



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 26, 2024, 16:52
JUST IN - Texas Governor says he is "prepared" for a conflict with federal authorities: "This is a fight for the future of America" — Tucker

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1750946606529089697 (https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1750946606529089697)



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 26, 2024, 16:53
The democrats are the enemies of the USA. An open border with Mexico is a threat to US security.
Remove Democrats from power! Impeachment to Biden!

What did Biden do as president anyway?....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 26, 2024, 17:34
The democrats are the enemies of the USA. An open border with Mexico is a threat to US security.
Remove Democrats from power! Impeachment to Biden!

What did Biden do as president anyway?....

You really have no idea about democracy. You also have zero feeling for what you write. That's exactly what Zero Talent is trying to tell you all the time.

Here in Germany, those who support Trump are also those who support:

- against taking in refugees from Ukraine
- speak out against financial support for Ukraine
- speak out against military support for Ukraine
- want to buy gas from Russia again
etc.

These are also those who want more proximity to Russia, less democracy, fewer foreigners - in short: Germany first.

These tendencies are increasing massively. Because they are also supported by Russia's trolls.

When will the time come when you realize that you are a victim of Russian propaganda? You really don't get it.

In your head are Merkel, Scholz, Biden and the KGB. You have lost all understanding.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Annie2022 on January 26, 2024, 20:50
The democrats are the enemies of the USA. An open border with Mexico is a threat to US security.
Remove Democrats from power! Impeachment to Biden!

What did Biden do as president anyway?....

I've already shown you above with actual footage from yesterday that Republicans are coming out to say how 'appalled' they are that Trump is blocking the border negotiations.

It was all over the news yesterday.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 27, 2024, 03:37
Border Patrol has 'no plans' to remove razor wire set up by Texas amid feud with Biden admin.

Texas and the federal government are battling over border security.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/border-patrol-has-no-plans-remove-razor-wire-set-up-texas-amid-feud-biden-admin (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/border-patrol-has-no-plans-remove-razor-wire-set-up-texas-amid-feud-biden-admin)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 27, 2024, 03:40
The democrats are the enemies of the USA. An open border with Mexico is a threat to US security.
Remove Democrats from power! Impeachment to Biden!

What did Biden do as president anyway?....

I've already shown you above with actual footage from yesterday that Republicans are coming out to say how 'appalled' they are that Trump is blocking the border negotiations.

It was all over the news yesterday.

There is no need to attribute primacy in this matter to Trump. There have been real problems at the border for a long time; a lot of illegal immigrants remain in the southern states, which does not suit these states.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 27, 2024, 03:43
Here in Germany, those who support Trump are also those who support:
- against taking in refugees from Ukraine
- speak out against financial support for Ukraine
- speak out against military support for Ukraine
- want to buy gas from Russia again
etc.
These are also those who want more proximity to Russia, less democracy, fewer foreigners - in short: Germany first.
Well done Trump! Fooled them perfectly!
This is the point, to take the votes of those who are your enemies.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 27, 2024, 03:45
Zero Talent
He's a Democratic Party troll.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 27, 2024, 06:39
U.S. war plans for Ukraine don’t foresee retaking lost territory.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/26/ukraine-war-plan-biden-defense/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/01/26/ukraine-war-plan-biden-defense/)


Fuck the Democrats! Fuck Biden! Biden's place is in prison!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 27, 2024, 08:19
Here in Germany, those who support Trump are also those who support:
- against taking in refugees from Ukraine
- speak out against financial support for Ukraine
- speak out against military support for Ukraine
- want to buy gas from Russia again
etc.
These are also those who want more proximity to Russia, less democracy, fewer foreigners - in short: Germany first.
Well done Trump! Fooled them perfectly!
This is the point, to take the votes of those who are your enemies.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 27, 2024, 08:46
Russian troll farms have switched from sowing discord on Ukraine to pushing for civil war in the US.

Suddenly, many "Regular American Baseball Man" all pushing for Texas secession, while maga morons fully agree: make america great again... but make it smaller ::)

Kremlin and maga are on the same side.

We can also notice the switch in this forum. Suddenly, Ukraine became almost secondary, while  brainless parrots are parroting maga and trump's post-truth talking points.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 27, 2024, 09:01
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 28, 2024, 04:58
Biden is a schmuck. He did and is doing everything so that the Russian empire exists and the territories occupied by the Russians remain occupied. Biden is helping putin get re-elected in the Russian presidential elections.
Biden's place in the electric chair!
The Democrats' place is in prison!

This is true. I wrote the truth. Everyone who supports Biden and the Democrats are complicit in the crimes committed by the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 28, 2024, 05:17
This idiot and friend of the Russians, Biden, did send troops to Texas. The southern states are not waiting either; troops have been sent from other states to support Texas.
If the Democrats are completely moronic and want to act in the interests of the Russians, military action is possible. I am confident that the Democrats will lose this war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 28, 2024, 05:30
Pentagon report warns America at risk, unprepared for alien invasion  ;D ;D ;D

https://insiderpaper.com/pentagon-report-warns-america-at-risk-unprepared-for-alien-invasion/ (https://insiderpaper.com/pentagon-report-warns-america-at-risk-unprepared-for-alien-invasion/)

This is what the United States is doing under the Democrats and under Biden. Do Democrats need a new source for stealing money?
Or what kind of idiots is this all aimed at?
Democrats! Run and fight UFOs!  ;D ;D ;D

Idiots.....
I can imagine how they laugh with the USA in russia, China, North Korea. Under the Democrats, the USA has become a clown!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 28, 2024, 05:41
I see that TV channels in the USA no longer show Ukraine or show very little of it. Apparently the ass.hole Biden decided that the war in Ukraine would ruin his ratings before the election. Democrats think that if Ukraine is not shown in the news, then there is no war.
 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 28, 2024, 08:05
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GE26xIQXEAAz6Mi?format=jpg&name=small)

This all looks like Democrats hounding (bullying) Trump. Read what that woman writes....  ??? :o >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 28, 2024, 09:09
Widely statistically validated observation: the ignorant & resentful fool has his cognitive circuits reversed: he hates those who might help him and adores those who bury him.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 28, 2024, 09:17
Widely statistically validated observation: the ignorant & resentful fool has his cognitive circuits reversed: he hates those who might help him and adores those who bury him.
Yes, Ukrainians are definitely fools, if you follow your logic. Instead of dealing with such “allies” as US democrats and parasites in the EU, they should let the Russian army go where it wants and not offer any resistance.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 28, 2024, 09:29
Widely statistically validated observation: the ignorant & resentful fool has his cognitive circuits reversed: he hates those who might help him and adores those who bury him.
Yes, Ukrainians are definitely fools, if you follow your logic. Instead of dealing with such “allies” as US democrats and parasites in the EU, they should let the Russian army go where it wants and not offer any resistance.

I'm only noticing how ignorant and resentful fools also active on this forum are matching an observation valid for all ignorant and resentful fools worldwide (regardless of their nationality, gender, skin color, religion, etc...)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 28, 2024, 09:59
Someone who writes that a person belongs in the electric chair because he accepts that the Nation Russia exists has such a radical mindset that any discussion with him must be stopped!

Someone with such ideas belongs in prison himself!

BTW:

Incidentally, the parasites would be happy if the money they donate to Ukraine for weapons was actually spent on them and did not end up in the hands of corrupt Ukrainian civil servants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973)

The fight against corruption in Ukraine is also the basis for Ukraine being able to become part of the parasites in the future, i.e. the EU, which Ukraine has wanted for years.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 28, 2024, 14:06
Someone who writes that a person belongs in the electric chair because he accepts that the Nation Russia exists has such a radical mindset that any discussion with him must be stopped!

Someone with such ideas belongs in prison himself!

BTW:

Incidentally, the parasites would be happy if the money they donate to Ukraine for weapons was actually spent on them and did not end up in the hands of corrupt Ukrainian civil servants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973)

The fight against corruption in Ukraine is also the basis for Ukraine being able to become part of the parasites in the future, i.e. the EU, which Ukraine has wanted for years.
1. Euro parasites and US Democrats do not give Ukraine money for weapons. You yourself know this well and you yourself wrote about it. EU money is spent only on social needs.
2. Ukraine has never been a parasite.
3. Euro parasites, the USA, Canada, Great Britain are pursuing a cunning bloody policy. Ukraine does not receive the necessary weapons, and normal sanctions are not imposed against the Russians. The result of this policy is the mass death of Ukrainians every day. The EU uses Ukrainians as meat to protect its borders. Attitudes towards Ukrainians as slaves during the slave system. Treated like an inferior race. Hold a stick and go to war against a rifle, this is how it all looks.
Such a policy is called a crime, and in a normal court Biden would have received not only a prison sentence, but also the electric chair. Considering how many Ukrainians died and cities destroyed.
4. Yes, you read about corruption in the purchase of weapons. But this is Ukrainian money that was stolen, this is not EU or US money. Therefore, Ukraine will figure it out on its own. The thieves will be shot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 28, 2024, 14:11
Widely statistically validated observation: the ignorant & resentful fool has his cognitive circuits reversed: he hates those who might help him and adores those who bury him.
Yes, Ukrainians are definitely fools, if you follow your logic. Instead of dealing with such “allies” as US democrats and parasites in the EU, they should let the Russian army go where it wants and not offer any resistance.

I'm only noticing how ignorant and resentful fools also active on this forum are matching an observation valid for all ignorant and resentful fools worldwide (regardless of their nationality, gender, skin color, religion, etc...)
Yes, fools are all the same. You're right. I agree that Ukrainians look like fools. This is true. And I am also a fool accordingly. I do not argue.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 28, 2024, 17:18
Someone who writes that a person belongs in the electric chair because he accepts that the Nation Russia exists has such a radical mindset that any discussion with him must be stopped!

Someone with such ideas belongs in prison himself!

BTW:

Incidentally, the parasites would be happy if the money they donate to Ukraine for weapons was actually spent on them and did not end up in the hands of corrupt Ukrainian civil servants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973)

The fight against corruption in Ukraine is also the basis for Ukraine being able to become part of the parasites in the future, i.e. the EU, which Ukraine has wanted for years.
1. Euro parasites and US Democrats do not give Ukraine money for weapons. You yourself know this well and you yourself wrote about it. EU money is spent only on social needs.
2. Ukraine has never been a parasite.
3. Euro parasites, the USA, Canada, Great Britain are pursuing a cunning bloody policy. Ukraine does not receive the necessary weapons, and normal sanctions are not imposed against the Russians. The result of this policy is the mass death of Ukrainians every day. The EU uses Ukrainians as meat to protect its borders. Attitudes towards Ukrainians as slaves during the slave system. Treated like an inferior race. Hold a stick and go to war against a rifle, this is how it all looks.
Such a policy is called a crime, and in a normal court Biden would have received not only a prison sentence, but also the electric chair. Considering how many Ukrainians died and cities destroyed.
4. Yes, you read about corruption in the purchase of weapons. But this is Ukrainian money that was stolen, this is not EU or US money. Therefore, Ukraine will figure it out on its own. The thieves will be shot.


I have just watched the interview that Caren Miosga conducted with President Selenskiyj.

I'm very pleased that Selenskyj is equipped with a great deal of vision and intelligence - he's way ahead of you! That's why he assesses many issues much more wisely than you do. This also includes his attitude towards the democrats, which is the opposite of yours.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 28, 2024, 19:56
Widely statistically validated observation: the ignorant & resentful fool has his cognitive circuits reversed: he hates those who might help him and adores those who bury him.
Yes, Ukrainians are definitely fools, if you follow your logic. Instead of dealing with such “allies” as US democrats and parasites in the EU, they should let the Russian army go where it wants and not offer any resistance.

I'm only noticing how ignorant and resentful fools also active on this forum are matching an observation valid for all ignorant and resentful fools worldwide (regardless of their nationality, gender, skin color, religion, etc...)
Yes, fools are all the same. You're right. I agree that Ukrainians look like fools. This is true. And I am also a fool accordingly. I do not argue.

Logic defies you, as usual.

Ukrainians as a nation are smart, very, very, very brave and grateful.

Obviously, certain individuals are not, and any presence of some random ignorant and resentful fool in this forum would rather confirm an unfortunate exception, instead of the rule.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 05:53
Widely statistically validated observation: the ignorant & resentful fool has his cognitive circuits reversed: he hates those who might help him and adores those who bury him.
Yes, Ukrainians are definitely fools, if you follow your logic. Instead of dealing with such “allies” as US democrats and parasites in the EU, they should let the Russian army go where it wants and not offer any resistance.

I'm only noticing how ignorant and resentful fools also active on this forum are matching an observation valid for all ignorant and resentful fools worldwide (regardless of their nationality, gender, skin color, religion, etc...)
Yes, fools are all the same. You're right. I agree that Ukrainians look like fools. This is true. And I am also a fool accordingly. I do not argue.

Logic defies you, as usual.

Ukrainians as a nation are smart, very, very, very brave and grateful.

Obviously, certain individuals are not, and any presence of some random ignorant and resentful fool in this forum would rather confirm an unfortunate exception, instead of the rule.
The same can be said about you. Of course, I will not write insults against you here. I'm not you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 05:56
Someone who writes that a person belongs in the electric chair because he accepts that the Nation Russia exists has such a radical mindset that any discussion with him must be stopped!

Someone with such ideas belongs in prison himself!

BTW:

Incidentally, the parasites would be happy if the money they donate to Ukraine for weapons was actually spent on them and did not end up in the hands of corrupt Ukrainian civil servants.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68120973)

The fight against corruption in Ukraine is also the basis for Ukraine being able to become part of the parasites in the future, i.e. the EU, which Ukraine has wanted for years.
1. Euro parasites and US Democrats do not give Ukraine money for weapons. You yourself know this well and you yourself wrote about it. EU money is spent only on social needs.
2. Ukraine has never been a parasite.
3. Euro parasites, the USA, Canada, Great Britain are pursuing a cunning bloody policy. Ukraine does not receive the necessary weapons, and normal sanctions are not imposed against the Russians. The result of this policy is the mass death of Ukrainians every day. The EU uses Ukrainians as meat to protect its borders. Attitudes towards Ukrainians as slaves during the slave system. Treated like an inferior race. Hold a stick and go to war against a rifle, this is how it all looks.
Such a policy is called a crime, and in a normal court Biden would have received not only a prison sentence, but also the electric chair. Considering how many Ukrainians died and cities destroyed.
4. Yes, you read about corruption in the purchase of weapons. But this is Ukrainian money that was stolen, this is not EU or US money. Therefore, Ukraine will figure it out on its own. The thieves will be shot.


I have just watched the interview that Caren Miosga conducted with President Selenskiyj.

I'm very pleased that Selenskyj is equipped with a great deal of vision and intelligence - he's way ahead of you! That's why he assesses many issues much more wisely than you do. This also includes his attitude towards the democrats, which is the opposite of yours.
1. You should write not Selenskiyj, but Zelenskyy. Write correctly.
2. I already wrote that Zelenskyy speaks only diplomatic language. In order to understand what he wants to say, there are translators. For example me.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 05:59
So. The United States, under the leadership of Biden and the Democrats, is pursuing a completely cowardly and criminal policy towards the world and its allies. We all saw how the Americans cowardly fled from Afghanistan and left a lot of equipment and weapons for the Taliban terrorists. Now we see how the United States is planning to escape from Syria and Iraq. All terrorists see the cowardice of the United States and are already striking US military bases, to which there are no answers from the United States. The USA looks like a dog that has its tail between its legs and runs and runs. When the Russians begin to occupy the EU, the Americans will be the first to flee Europe. All this is true and reality if democrats are in power.
Therefore it is necessary:
1. Ban the Democratic Party in the USA.
2. Put Biden in jail.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 06:05
Nato should ‘prepare for Russian missile strikes in Europe’
Alliance may have only three years before a possible offensive with Putin’s forces targeting military infrastructure in Germany, senior generals warn

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nato-russia-missile-strikes-europe-germany-vbwt2dktt (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nato-russia-missile-strikes-europe-germany-vbwt2dktt)

These are the results of the cowardly policies of US democrats and EU parasites.

Don’t continue to give Ukraine weapons, and then the war will take place on EU territory.

____________
All Russians must be deported from EU countries. According to Ukrainian military experts, it is not only Putin who will launch missile attacks on the EU. The Russians who now live in the EU will also strikes at the EU. There are a lot of ways.

Yes, the Russians have a occasion to occupy the EU. They will say that the EU gave weapons to Ukraine and that the EU thereby started a war with russia.
EU parasites! You either don’t give weapons to Ukraine at all or give them a lot, then the Ukrainian Armed Forces will liquidate the entire Russian army.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 06:19
Donald Trump is preparing for a massive new trade war with China

The former president has talked to advisers about imposing a 60 percent tariff sure to enrage Beijing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/01/27/trump-china-trade-war/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/01/27/trump-china-trade-war/)

I think Trump is right, it is necessary to strike at the Chinese economy. Yes, the United States also expects losses, but war is war.
Impotent, coward and friend of the Russians, Biden is not capable of this.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 29, 2024, 06:23
So. The United States, under the leadership of Biden and the Democrats, is pursuing a completely cowardly and criminal policy towards the world and its allies. We all saw how the Americans cowardly fled from Afghanistan and left a lot of equipment and weapons for the Taliban terrorists. Now we see how the United States is planning to escape from Syria and Iraq. All terrorists see the cowardice of the United States and are already striking US military bases, to which there are no answers from the United States. The USA looks like a dog that has its tail between its legs and runs and runs. When the Russians begin to occupy the EU, the Americans will be the first to flee Europe. All this is true and reality if democrats are in power.
Therefore it is necessary:
1. Ban the Democratic Party in the USA.
2. Put Biden in jail.


2020 Trump/Afghanistan:
In February 2020, the US government under then President Donald Trump agreed with the Taliban to withdraw all US and NATO troops by May 1, 2021.

2019 Trump/Syria
"Syria was supposed to be a short-term mission," Trump said at an impromptu press conference this afternoon: "I promised during the election campaign that I would bring our troops home." "The USA is 7,000 miles away," said the US President. The problems should now be solved by the neighboring countries, he demanded."

2021 Trump/Iraq
In the fall, Biden's predecessor Donald Trump ordered the halving of American troops from around 5,000 to around 2,500 military personnel.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 07:19
As always, there is little history. Let me remind you that it was more than 100 years ago.

Battle near Kruty on January 29, 1918. 500 Ukrainian soldiers tried to hold back the 4,000-strong Russian army.

The battle lasted for about six hours, up to 100 Ukrainians were killed in it, the youngest was 16. The enemy was detained for 4 days and the Ukrainian People's Republic managed to sign the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk with the states of the Quadruple Alliance, which meant international recognition of the independence of the Ukrainian People's Republic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 07:23
So. The United States, under the leadership of Biden and the Democrats, is pursuing a completely cowardly and criminal policy towards the world and its allies. We all saw how the Americans cowardly fled from Afghanistan and left a lot of equipment and weapons for the Taliban terrorists. Now we see how the United States is planning to escape from Syria and Iraq. All terrorists see the cowardice of the United States and are already striking US military bases, to which there are no answers from the United States. The USA looks like a dog that has its tail between its legs and runs and runs. When the Russians begin to occupy the EU, the Americans will be the first to flee Europe. All this is true and reality if democrats are in power.
Therefore it is necessary:
1. Ban the Democratic Party in the USA.
2. Put Biden in jail.


2020 Trump/Afghanistan:
In February 2020, the US government under then President Donald Trump agreed with the Taliban to withdraw all US and NATO troops by May 1, 2021.

2019 Trump/Syria
"Syria was supposed to be a short-term mission," Trump said at an impromptu press conference this afternoon: "I promised during the election campaign that I would bring our troops home." "The USA is 7,000 miles away," said the US President. The problems should now be solved by the neighboring countries, he demanded."

2021 Trump/Iraq
In the fall, Biden's predecessor Donald Trump ordered the halving of American troops from around 5,000 to around 2,500 military personnel.
If Trump just talked, then Biden did and did everything very badly. As I already said, I don’t care what Trump says, the main thing is what he actually does.
But Trump can speak for different purposes. Words are not actions.
And they are judged in court not for words, but for actions and policies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 29, 2024, 08:43
So. The United States, under the leadership of Biden and the Democrats, is pursuing a completely cowardly and criminal policy towards the world and its allies. We all saw how the Americans cowardly fled from Afghanistan and left a lot of equipment and weapons for the Taliban terrorists. Now we see how the United States is planning to escape from Syria and Iraq. All terrorists see the cowardice of the United States and are already striking US military bases, to which there are no answers from the United States. The USA looks like a dog that has its tail between its legs and runs and runs. When the Russians begin to occupy the EU, the Americans will be the first to flee Europe. All this is true and reality if democrats are in power.
Therefore it is necessary:
1. Ban the Democratic Party in the USA.
2. Put Biden in jail.


2020 Trump/Afghanistan:
In February 2020, the US government under then President Donald Trump agreed with the Taliban to withdraw all US and NATO troops by May 1, 2021.

2019 Trump/Syria
"Syria was supposed to be a short-term mission," Trump said at an impromptu press conference this afternoon: "I promised during the election campaign that I would bring our troops home." "The USA is 7,000 miles away," said the US President. The problems should now be solved by the neighboring countries, he demanded."

2021 Trump/Iraq
In the fall, Biden's predecessor Donald Trump ordered the halving of American troops from around 5,000 to around 2,500 military personnel.
If Trump just talked, then Biden did and did everything very badly. As I already said, I don’t care what Trump says, the main thing is what he actually does.
But Trump can speak for different purposes. Words are not actions.
And they are judged in court not for words, but for actions and policies.

Trump didn't talk. He did it. In Afghanistan the troops were withdrawn during his reign. In Irak they were halved during his reign. But since you build your own truth, you will once again not want to accept it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on January 29, 2024, 08:51
I’m must say that Stoker2014 spreads really strange views and propaganda without thinking what it is going on… sadly, young population of Ukraine have already being out of army potential, during last two years… I really don’t know why is goverment insisting in weapons and not protecting demographic potential…?! Russia have weeked, but it’s enormous potential can’t be beaten without losing everything you got now…
People of Ukraine in Germany and other countries must be thankful, because those countries gave them really all they need at begining of this war… and with all weapons they have sent, simply they are not doing favor to thise who have stayed in Ukraine…

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 09:05
So. The United States, under the leadership of Biden and the Democrats, is pursuing a completely cowardly and criminal policy towards the world and its allies. We all saw how the Americans cowardly fled from Afghanistan and left a lot of equipment and weapons for the Taliban terrorists. Now we see how the United States is planning to escape from Syria and Iraq. All terrorists see the cowardice of the United States and are already striking US military bases, to which there are no answers from the United States. The USA looks like a dog that has its tail between its legs and runs and runs. When the Russians begin to occupy the EU, the Americans will be the first to flee Europe. All this is true and reality if democrats are in power.
Therefore it is necessary:
1. Ban the Democratic Party in the USA.
2. Put Biden in jail.


2020 Trump/Afghanistan:
In February 2020, the US government under then President Donald Trump agreed with the Taliban to withdraw all US and NATO troops by May 1, 2021.

2019 Trump/Syria
"Syria was supposed to be a short-term mission," Trump said at an impromptu press conference this afternoon: "I promised during the election campaign that I would bring our troops home." "The USA is 7,000 miles away," said the US President. The problems should now be solved by the neighboring countries, he demanded."

2021 Trump/Iraq
In the fall, Biden's predecessor Donald Trump ordered the halving of American troops from around 5,000 to around 2,500 military personnel.
If Trump just talked, then Biden did and did everything very badly. As I already said, I don’t care what Trump says, the main thing is what he actually does.
But Trump can speak for different purposes. Words are not actions.
And they are judged in court not for words, but for actions and policies.

Trump didn't talk. He did it. In Afghanistan the troops were withdrawn during his reign. In Irak they were halved during his reign. But since you build your own truth, you will once again not want to accept it.
1. There is no need to attribute Biden's crimes to Trump.
2. Trump could reduce the number of troops. Reducing this does not mean withdrawing troops.

Read Biden's crime story here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_U.S._troop_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_U.S._troop_withdrawal_from_Afghanistan)

Following the U.S. withdrawal, around one thousand U.S. citizens and Afghans holding U.S. or other visas were held up by the Taliban with the U.S. government not authorizing their departure.[25][26] On 28 and 29 September 2021, U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley and United States Central Command (CENTCOM) commander Gen. Frank McKenzie were among the numerous Defense Department officials who denied during Congressional testimonies President Biden's previous claim that his decision to withdraw troops from Afghanistan was because of advice from senior U.S. military leaders and stated that they had in fact advised him to keep some troops in Afghanistan.[27][28]

Controversy over withdrawal claim

On 28 September 2021, U.S. Secretary of Defense Austin, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Milley, CENTCOM Commander Gen. McKenzie and other U.S. Department of Defense officials contradicted during testimony before the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee President Biden's previous claim which he made in an interview with ABC News journalist George Stephanopolous in August 2021 that he withdrew U.S. troops from Afghanistan based on advice from senior military advisors.[27][168] Milley testified that he advised the President to accept Gen. Austin Miller's recommendation to keep 2,500 troops in Afghanistan and described Biden's withdrawal plan as a "strategic failure."[27] McKenzie stated that he recommended to President Biden that 2,500 U.S. troops should maintain a presence in Afghanistan and that he also previously recommended to the Trump Administration in the fall of 2020 to keep 4,500 troops at that time.[169] The next day, Austin, Milley and McKenzie would further criticize Biden's Afghanistan withdrawal when they testified before U.S. House Armed Services Committee.[170][28]

Analysis
According to some media analysts, such as Alexander Nazaryan of Yahoo! News, the withdrawal was included among other actions that Biden broke with both Obama and Trump on, and was seen as maintaining the promise Biden made prior to becoming president that his term would not be "a third Obama term" because "President Trump has changed the landscape". Princeton professor Julian E. Zelizer claimed Biden "clearly learned a great deal from his time in the Obama presidency". Washington Post journalist Steven Levingston wrote, "Obama listened to military leaders who advised him that withdrawal would be a mistake. Biden, meanwhile, was the top administration official arguing for a much more limited role for American forces in Afghanistan. Later, Biden would go on to say that he could tell by Obama's 'body language' that he agreed with that assessment—even though he ultimately rejected it." Harvard historian James Kloppenberg stated, "Only a fool would have been confident he knew all the answers [when it came to Afghanistan]. Obama was no fool."[171]

The Diplomat reported on 17 April 2021, about the internal and external challenges for Afghanistan following the US troop withdrawal from the perspective of Afghanistan's civil society.[172]

The Washington Post editorial board was critical of the withdrawal in an article dated 2 July 2021, saying the US was allowing its ally to fend for itself against the Taliban with insufficient resources, writing, "the descent from stalemate to defeat could be steep and grim. We wonder whether [Biden] has fully considered the consequences."[173]

On 22 August 2021, The Daily Telegraph reported that "President Joe Biden's aides were 'too scared' to question him on key decisions made in the run-up to the US withdrawal from Afghanistan, sources close to the administration have told The Telegraph."[176]

Following the collapse of the Afghanistan government on 15 August 2021, the Biden administration's withdrawal plan received bipartisan backlash.[194] Former Secretary of Defense and CIA Chief Leon Panetta, who oversaw the raid which successfully killed Osama bin Laden,[195] compared Biden's poor withdrawal planning to that of how former US President John F. Kennedy handled the 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion.[196] In addition to Republicans, numerous fellow Democrats in Congress, including chairs of some important Congressional committees, criticized Biden's handling of the withdrawal as well.[197] Jordain Carney of The Hill wrote on 18 August 2021 that Biden now had "few Capitol Hill allies" amid the Afghanistan backlash.[198] During an interview with ABC News, Biden defended his decision to withdraw from Afghanistan, and that chaos during the withdrawal is inevitable. Biden stated that while he had priced in enormous chaos in the withdrawal, and what is happening in Afghanistan is not priced in by him.[199] Former Trump Secretary of Defense Christopher C. Miller also criticized Biden's choice of sticking to a withdrawal date, stating in an interview with CNN anchor Chris Cuomo that while the Trump Administration was leaning towards a withdrawal, no date was fixed, stating "We felt we had the ability to move the goal posts if we needed to on that one, in a way."[200]

The Biden Administration faced further domestic criticism after Afghanistan fell to the Taliban following the Fall of Kabul in August 2021.[201][202][203][204] President Biden's approval rating dropped to 41% and only 26% of Americans said they support Biden' s handling of the situation in Afghanistan.[205] Some Republicans, including Senator Josh Hawley, Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, and former Ambassador Nikki Haley, called on Biden to resign.[206] Former American presidents George W. Bush, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump, each of whom had overseen significant developments in the War in Afghanistan, also faced criticism.[207] In the UK, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab faced calls to resign after it was revealed he had gone on holiday to Greece just prior to the fall and had refused attempts to contact him as developments occurred.[208]
_______
Biden is a criminal! His place is in the electric chair!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 09:08
I’m must say that Stoker2014 spreads really strange views and propaganda without thinking what it is going on… sadly, young population of Ukraine have already being out of army potential, during last two years… I really don’t know why is goverment insisting in weapons and not protecting demographic potential…?! Russia have weeked, but it’s enormous potential can’t be beaten without losing everything you got now…
People of Ukraine in Germany and other countries must be thankful, because those countries gave them really all they need at begining of this war… and with all weapons they have sent, simply they are not doing favor to thise who have stayed in Ukraine…
::) ::) ::)
A typical opinion of a European who does not understand what is happening at all and has never even heard that World War 3 is going on.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on January 29, 2024, 09:16
You are very wrong, sadly I do know what war is and that human lives are more precious than any teritory in the world…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 09:55
You are very wrong, sadly I do know what war is and that human lives are more precious than any teritory in the world…
I already understood this. The EU and NATO do not plan to fight. That’s why I’m writing here that EU countries need to prepare parking lots for Russian tanks.
I recommend that you read this entire topic.
I don't know you, so I responded to what you wrote. Perhaps you know and understand more than what you wrote in one post.
 :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 10:29
Avdiivka, Ukraine.
A homemade drone loaded with explosives is launched by the Ukrainian Armed Forces to blow up a bridge on Russian-occupied territory of Ukraine. A Ukrainian children's song about a turtle that learned to fly plays in the background.

https://t.me/voynareal/82441 (https://t.me/voynareal/82441)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on January 29, 2024, 10:36
For sure, there will not be Russian tanks in EU… Russia have lost their power significantly, but Ukraine can’t beat their potential in long term… Patriots and F16s are expensive toys and not ment to be used in a way Ukraine needs it… even with experienced personel and pilots , neither 150 F35 will help Ukraine… but, for sure can prolong war and not in Ukraine and Russias favor…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 29, 2024, 11:13
So. The United States, under the leadership of Biden and the Democrats, is pursuing a completely cowardly and criminal policy towards the world and its allies. We all saw how the Americans cowardly fled from Afghanistan and left a lot of equipment and weapons for the Taliban terrorists. Now we see how the United States is planning to escape from Syria and Iraq. All terrorists see the cowardice of the United States and are already striking US military bases, to which there are no answers from the United States. The USA looks like a dog that has its tail between its legs and runs and runs. When the Russians begin to occupy the EU, the Americans will be the first to flee Europe. All this is true and reality if democrats are in power.
Therefore it is necessary:
1. Ban the Democratic Party in the USA.
2. Put Biden in jail.


2020 Trump/Afghanistan:
In February 2020, the US government under then President Donald Trump agreed with the Taliban to withdraw all US and NATO troops by May 1, 2021.

2019 Trump/Syria
"Syria was supposed to be a short-term mission," Trump said at an impromptu press conference this afternoon: "I promised during the election campaign that I would bring our troops home." "The USA is 7,000 miles away," said the US President. The problems should now be solved by the neighboring countries, he demanded."

2021 Trump/Iraq
In the fall, Biden's predecessor Donald Trump ordered the halving of American troops from around 5,000 to around 2,500 military personnel.
If Trump just talked, then Biden did and did everything very badly. As I already said, I don’t care what Trump says, the main thing is what he actually does.
But Trump can speak for different purposes. Words are not actions.
And they are judged in court not for words, but for actions and policies.

Trump didn't talk. He did it. In Afghanistan the troops were withdrawn during his reign. In Irak they were halved during his reign. But since you build your own truth, you will once again not want to accept it.

1. There is no need to attribute Biden's crimes to Trump.
2. Trump could reduce the number of troops. Reducing this does not mean withdrawing troops.


When Trump came to power in 2017, 14,000 US soldiers were stationed in Afghanistan. When Biden became president in January, there were only 2,500 US soldiers in Afghanistan left.

Trump reached an agreement with the Taliban terrorists in which the Taliban promised to protect the USA (and its allies) from al-Qaeda terrorists. In return, the USA is withdrawing its troops.

Reducing the international US troop presence is one of US President Donald Trump's foreign policy priorities and was already one of his election campaign promises in 2016.

In 2018, 5,000 to 6,000 US soldiers were still stationed in Iraq. Trump reduced this to 2,500.

But since you - like Donald Trump - are a fan of "alternative truths", you will probably stick to your statement.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 11:16
For sure, there will not be Russian tanks in EU… Russia have lost their power significantly, but Ukraine can’t beat their potential in long term… Patriots and F16s are expensive toys and not ment to be used in a way Ukraine needs it… even with experienced personel and pilots , neither 150 F35 will help Ukraine… but, for sure can prolong war and not in Ukraine and Russias favor…
In Ukraine they don’t predict or guess. Ukraine is at war. 2 years ago, all Western “experts” gave Ukraine 3 days and Kyiv would be taken, the country would be occupied. The Russians were called the "second army" of the world. As we see, the reality is completely different.
Missiles, tanks, aircraft, shells, this is what Ukraine needs. If this happens, the Russian army will be liquidated and the Russian Federation will cease to exist.
Of course, if you don’t supply weapons to Ukraine, then there will be nothing to fight with.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 29, 2024, 11:19
So. The United States, under the leadership of Biden and the Democrats, is pursuing a completely cowardly and criminal policy towards the world and its allies. We all saw how the Americans cowardly fled from Afghanistan and left a lot of equipment and weapons for the Taliban terrorists. Now we see how the United States is planning to escape from Syria and Iraq. All terrorists see the cowardice of the United States and are already striking US military bases, to which there are no answers from the United States. The USA looks like a dog that has its tail between its legs and runs and runs. When the Russians begin to occupy the EU, the Americans will be the first to flee Europe. All this is true and reality if democrats are in power.
Therefore it is necessary:
1. Ban the Democratic Party in the USA.
2. Put Biden in jail.


2020 Trump/Afghanistan:
In February 2020, the US government under then President Donald Trump agreed with the Taliban to withdraw all US and NATO troops by May 1, 2021.

2019 Trump/Syria
"Syria was supposed to be a short-term mission," Trump said at an impromptu press conference this afternoon: "I promised during the election campaign that I would bring our troops home." "The USA is 7,000 miles away," said the US President. The problems should now be solved by the neighboring countries, he demanded."

2021 Trump/Iraq
In the fall, Biden's predecessor Donald Trump ordered the halving of American troops from around 5,000 to around 2,500 military personnel.
If Trump just talked, then Biden did and did everything very badly. As I already said, I don’t care what Trump says, the main thing is what he actually does.
But Trump can speak for different purposes. Words are not actions.
And they are judged in court not for words, but for actions and policies.

Trump didn't talk. He did it. In Afghanistan the troops were withdrawn during his reign. In Irak they were halved during his reign. But since you build your own truth, you will once again not want to accept it.

1. There is no need to attribute Biden's crimes to Trump.
2. Trump could reduce the number of troops. Reducing this does not mean withdrawing troops.


When Trump came to power in 2017, 14,000 US soldiers were stationed in Afghanistan. When Biden became president in January, there were only 2,500 US soldiers in Afghanistan left.

Trump reached an agreement with the Taliban terrorists in which the Taliban promised to protect the USA (and its allies) from al-Qaeda terrorists. In return, the USA is withdrawing its troops.

Reducing the international US troop presence is one of US President Donald Trump's foreign policy priorities and was already one of his election campaign promises in 2016.

In 2018, 5,000 to 6,000 US soldiers were still stationed in Iraq. Trump reduced this to 2,500.

But since you - like Donald Trump - are a fan of "alternative truths", you will probably stick to your statement.
I have already written that reducing troops and increasing them at any time is a normal and correct policy. Well, what Trump “promised” there, of course, makes me very happy. Do you believe what Trump says and promises?  ;D ;D ;D
Biden completely withdrew US troops, everyone has already testified against him. When the Republicans take power, Biden will be jailed. Dot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 29, 2024, 13:23
I'm not you.

Indeed, you are not. One of the few facts you ever posted, here.

Congrats!

See what happens when you think on your feet, instead of parroting what you read in your conspiracy bubbles?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 30, 2024, 10:39
As early as tonight, President Joe Biden will authorise US military action in the Middle East.

https://news.sky.com/story/biden-faces-pivotal-moment-as-he-weighs-retaliation-for-soldier-deaths-in-jordan-drone-strike-13059640 (https://news.sky.com/story/biden-faces-pivotal-moment-as-he-weighs-retaliation-for-soldier-deaths-in-jordan-drone-strike-13059640)

_________
Biden will not start any war. He is a coward, a criminal and a friend of the Russians.
The US will continue to look like clowns.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 30, 2024, 13:45

Biden will not start any war. He is a coward, a criminal and a friend of the Russians.
The US will continue to look like clowns.

You are again ill informed on the presidential powers in the US, making YOU look like a clown.

The US is NOT a dictatorship. Biden CANNOT start any wars. ONLY the Cogress has this authority. The president is then empowered by the Congress to lead the war effort as the Commander in Chief.
He only has the power to veto the decision made by the Congres, but, with sufficient support, the Congres can overrule the presidential veto.

This is how democracies work.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 30, 2024, 15:35

Biden will not start any war. He is a coward, a criminal and a friend of the Russians.
The US will continue to look like clowns.

You are again ill informed on the presidential powers in the US, making YOU look like a clown.

The US is NOT a dictatorship. Biden CANNOT start any wars. ONLY the Cogress has this authority. The president is then empowered by the Congress to lead the war effort as the Commander in Chief.
He only has the power to veto the decision made by the Congres, but, with sufficient support, the Congres can overrule the presidential veto.

This is how democracies work.

Everything that stocker2014 writes has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with democracy. He has not understood and will not understand the essence and content of democracy - unlike the president of his country, who is trying to strengthen and protect precisely the democracy of his home country.
Every single one of Stocker's posts proves this crystal clear. That's why he hopes so much for Trump, because he suspects that Trump doesn't give a * about democratic processes, for example because he doesn't recognize the judiciary (as long as it takes action against his criminal machinations). However, Stocker2014 seriously believes that if Trump came to power, the dictator Putin would face a dictatorial counterpart who would use dictatorial force against Putin. But Trump is pursuing completely different goals and intentions. It would more likely turn into a friendship between dictators.

Trump's comments on Kim Jong Un:
Donald Trump even spoke of "love". "He wrote me beautiful letters and they are great letters. We fell in love," he said during a campaign appearance.

Trump's comments on Putin:
"I get along great with him."

Zelensky about Trump
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has expressed concern about the possibility of former President Donald Trump serving another term in office. Trump has a "very dangerous" rhetoric, said Selensky in an interview with the British program "Channel 4 News".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 30, 2024, 15:51
Wilm, I’ve already written to you many times. Any Republican president will suit me. Except perhaps DeSantis, but he has already withdrawn his candidacy. I have a very bad attitude towards any democrats and consider them evil. Therefore, it is not correct to call me a Trump fan. I write about him more than others, only because he is a leader and is more likely than others to become president.
The criminal gang of Democrats and Biden must be thrown out of the White House.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on January 30, 2024, 16:45
From my point of view you would have to write: "I have a very bad attitude towards democracy and consider it evil."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 31, 2024, 04:32
From my point of view you would have to write: "I have a very bad attitude towards democracy and consider it evil."
1. In this topic we did not discuss democracy and attitudes towards it.
2. I have a good attitude towards democracy.
3. The Republican Party is also very good about democracy.

If you think that some actions of the Republicans are not democratic, write your complaints here.

The third world war is fought to protect democracy. Ukraine defends democracy from Russian totalitarianism, fascism and Na.z.ism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 31, 2024, 04:39
Millionaire conwoman, 57, who bilked military out of over $100M to splash on 31 homes and 80 cars in 'biggest ever US Army scam' is allowed to retire with FULL BENEFITS despite IRS criminal probe - as she breaks her silence to claim 'I earned it!'
Janet Yamanaka Mello, 57, is accused of embezzling millions from the US Army
She pleaded not guilty and will return to court on Feb 12

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13017669/Janet-Mello-military-keeps-retirement-benefits.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13017669/Janet-Mello-military-keeps-retirement-benefits.html)
_______

There are thieves not only in Ukraine, as we see.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on January 31, 2024, 11:32
Mariupol nach der Eroberung.

Wie kein zweiter Ort steht Mariupol für die Brutalität von Putins Vernichtungskrieg. Die Hafen-Metropole am Asowschen Meer wurde in Schutt und Asche gebombt und schließlich besetzt. Ein Großteil der Bevölkerung ist tot oder geflohen. Jetzt steckt Russland viel Geld in den Wiederaufbau.

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute-in-europa/mariupol-nach-der-eroberung-100.html (https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute-in-europa/mariupol-nach-der-eroberung-100.html)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on January 31, 2024, 20:48
There are thieves not only in Ukraine, as we see.

Textbook #whataboutism.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 01, 2024, 02:25
From my point of view you would have to write: "I have a very bad attitude towards democracy and consider it evil."
1. In this topic we did not discuss democracy and attitudes towards it.
2. I have a good attitude towards democracy.
3. The Republican Party is also very good about democracy.

If you think that some actions of the Republicans are not democratic, write your complaints here.

The third world war is fought to protect democracy. Ukraine defends democracy from Russian totalitarianism, fascism and Na.z.ism.

When the top level of a party uses brazen lies to incite its own people to storm the state-owned congress building, this is one of the most undemocratic processes imaginable. Especially when the reason for this unbelievable action is that they do not want to recognize a democratic election result.

Such processes are familiar from non-democratic states. In the USA, however, there has never been anything like this or anything comparable.

The highlight is that those who are responsible for this are not held accountable, while some of their henchmen end up in prison.

And if it comes to the point that Trump comes to power, he wants to pardon the criminals, which would be another clear kick against democracy.

For me, this was one of the most horrific events in the young history of the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 01, 2024, 04:44
From my point of view you would have to write: "I have a very bad attitude towards democracy and consider it evil."
1. In this topic we did not discuss democracy and attitudes towards it.
2. I have a good attitude towards democracy.
3. The Republican Party is also very good about democracy.

If you think that some actions of the Republicans are not democratic, write your complaints here.

The third world war is fought to protect democracy. Ukraine defends democracy from Russian totalitarianism, fascism and Na.z.ism.

When the top level of a party uses brazen lies to incite its own people to storm the state-owned congress building, this is one of the most undemocratic processes imaginable. Especially when the reason for this unbelievable action is that they do not want to recognize a democratic election result.

Such processes are familiar from non-democratic states. In the USA, however, there has never been anything like this or anything comparable.

The highlight is that those who are responsible for this are not held accountable, while some of their henchmen end up in prison.

And if it comes to the point that Trump comes to power, he wants to pardon the criminals, which would be another clear kick against democracy.

For me, this was one of the most horrific events in the young history of the USA.
I will not now justify or not justify the storming of the Capitol. If you believe the liars (and Russian friends) Democrats, they won the election. If you believe Trump, he won the election.
I'll just say one thing. I don’t know how it is there in Germany. But for example, in France, if people don’t like something, then shops and cars burn in many cities, stones and bottles are thrown at the police. And such riots are taking place in many EU countries. This is called democracy. No one has yet excluded France from the list of democratic countries.
The US Democrats (as they call themselves) have been in power for 3 years. During this time, they did not put Trump in prison. So Trump is not guilty, and the Democrats are liars.
If you think that Trump is guilty, then the US Democrats are cowards, impotent, corrupt officials.
But you can go to live in Na.zi russia, where you will not see any protests and will never see any storming of the Kremlin. You probably like this kind of “democracy” better.  ;D ;D ;D

No matter how bad Trump is, compared to the ass.hole Biden, even Trump looks like an excellent candidate for the presidency.  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 01, 2024, 07:28
 8)

Trump nominated for Nobel Peace Prize by Republican lawmaker for ‘historic’ Middle East policy.

....
“The valiant efforts by President Trump in creating the Abraham Accords were unprecedented and continue to go unrecognised by the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, underscoring the need for his nomination today. Now more than ever, when Joe Biden’s weak leadership on the international stage is threatening our country’s safety and security, we must recognise Trump for his strong leadership and his efforts to achieve world peace. I am honoured to nominate former president Donald Trump today and am eager for him to receive the recognition he deserves,” the statement continued.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-nominated-nobel-peace-prize-b2487847.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-nominated-nobel-peace-prize-b2487847.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 01, 2024, 07:33
Ex-IRS contractor sentenced to 5 years in prison for leaking Trump tax records.
Charles Littlejohn had pleaded guilty to leaking thousands of tax records, including for Trump and billionaires like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/former-irs-contractor-sentenced-5-years-prison-leaking-trump-tax-recor-rcna135908 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/former-irs-contractor-sentenced-5-years-prison-leaking-trump-tax-recor-rcna135908)

________
It is very good that this verdict was passed when the Democratic Party is in power. Now no one will say that this is politics and revenge of the Republicans.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 01, 2024, 09:31
Soldiers of the Group 13 special forces unit of the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine destroyed the guided-missile corvette Ivanovets, part of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, on the night of 31 January-1 February 2024.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/0/d/0d95432-r334-09-big--1-_690x387.avif)

The enemy vessel was on the roadstead of Lake Donuzlav in temporarily occupied Crimea.

As a result of a number of direct strikes to the hull, the Russian vessel sustained critical damage causing immobilisation – it heaved aft and sank."

https://youtu.be/mX1Gwk0qkV8 (https://youtu.be/mX1Gwk0qkV8)

Details: DIU noted that the value of the vessel lost is approximately US$60-70 million.

According to early reports, the search and rescue operation of the Russian occupiers in Donuzlav was unsuccessful.

 ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)


Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of the Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 01, 2024, 13:05
Ukraine’s army chief: The design of war has changed.

(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/240201115342-valery-zaluzhny-portrait.jpg?c=16x9&q=h_653,w_1160,c_fill/f_webp)

Commander-in-Chief of Ukraine’s armed forces, Valerii Zaluzhnyi, lays out his strategy for defeating russia and the challenges holding his country back militarily. General Staff of the Armed Forces ofUkraine.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/01/opinions/ukraine-army-chief-war-strategy-russia-valerii-zaluzhnyi/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/01/opinions/ukraine-army-chief-war-strategy-russia-valerii-zaluzhnyi/index.html)

I recommend reading it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 03, 2024, 05:26
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/02/02/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-u-s-military-operation-in-the-middle-east/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/02/02/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-u-s-military-operation-in-the-middle-east/)

FEBRUARY 02, 2024
Statement from President Joe Biden on U.S. Military Operation in the Middle East
HOME
BRIEFING ROOM
STATEMENTS AND RELEASES
This past Sunday, three American soldiers were killed in Jordan by a drone launched by militant groups backed by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC).  Earlier today, I attended the dignified return of these brave Americans at Dover Airforce Base, and I have spoken with each of their families.
 
This afternoon, at my direction, U.S. military forces struck targets at facilities in Iraq and Syria that the IRGC and affiliated militia use to attack U.S. forces.
 
Our response began today.  It will continue at times and places of our choosing.
 
The United States does not seek conflict in the Middle East or anywhere else in the world.  But let all those who might seek to do us harm know this: If you harm an American, we will respond.
_____

Well, let's see, let's see. I see the approaching elections forcing Biden to do something. His rating has dropped significantly.
At the moment, the US has begun to deliver good strikes. Iran's defeat would be a blow to russia's military power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 03, 2024, 05:31
"Disintegration of the Russian Federation into a number of independent national states.
The successful performance of the peoples of Chechnya, Dagestan, Buryatia, Yakutia, and Bashkortostan against the Kremlin’s tyranny looks like an ideal recipe for victory over Russia.
We are convinced of the imminent collapse of the Russian Federation, because we believe in the incredible strength of national liberation movements and the ability of any people to achieve independence.
This belief is reinforced by the tremendous successes of decolonization in the twentieth century. From 1950 to 1980, the number of UN member states increased from 60 to 154! But, as a rule, the independence fighters of that time opposed the European metropolises. And by the middle of the twentieth century, Europe had undergone too much evolution towards liberalism and democratic values. This is what predetermined the triumph of the anti-colonial struggle in Asia and Africa.
Most of the British colonies, including the main imperial jewel, India, achieved liberation through non-violent methods. But if a figure like Gandhi had been confronted by a less liberal and scrupulous opponent, a peaceful victory would have been unthinkable."

The goal for everyone should be the same - the liquidation of the Russian Federation as a state.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 03, 2024, 14:57
… is Zaluzhnyi now considered as bad or good guy…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 04, 2024, 04:58
… is Zaluzhnyi now considered as bad or good guy…?!
Zaluzhnyi is a military man. He's not a bad guy. As far as I know, he remains in his position.
I don’t know whether there are better candidates than him in Ukraine.
What the media wrote is a normal phenomenon. In democratic countries, it is normal for conflicts to arise between politicians and the military (president and general) during war. Politicians need ratings and populism; they poorly understand what war is and how to fight. The military is not interested in their ratings and they do not engage in populism, so they say and do what is necessary to eliminate the enemy.
There weren't many things done in 2021 that would have made it more difficult for the Russians to attack Ukraine. It is not yet clear who is to blame for this, the question is open.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 04, 2024, 08:34
… for both sides, it’s better to have this war or intervention solved asap…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 04, 2024, 09:51
… for both sides, it’s better to have this war or intervention solved asap…
Nobody knows for sure. It’s just the media writing some rumors. The following options are possible:
1. There is a conflict.
2. There is no conflict.
3. There is no conflict, but the president is dissatisfied with the general's methods and effectiveness.
4. The president wants to shift the blame for military mistakes to the general and increase your personal rating.
5. The President does not like the general’s growing popularity in society and his possible claims to the presidency when there are elections. Or the increase in the popularity of the general leads to a decrease in the popularity of the president.
6. This is a Russian special operation to disinformation and destabilize Ukraine.

They write that the United States put pressure on the president not to remove the general from his post.

Of course, all these events irritate society and the army.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 04, 2024, 13:55
Ukraine claims win over russia: explaining UN court's ruling on Crimea and Donbas case

https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/articles/2024/01/31/7178665/ (https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/articles/2024/01/31/7178665/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 05, 2024, 10:50
… definitely, you will have new ambassador in UK…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 06, 2024, 05:22
"
· putin openly declares that he is fighting not so much with Ukraine as with the West. Therefore, if Ukraine stands, so will the West.

· Russian aggression against the civilized West must suffer a crushing defeat in Ukraine. Otherwise, all potential aggressors around the world will get a signal that it is possible to use force with impunity, change borders, and not suffer the consequences. For the United States and every American family, this will be a catastrophic development that will lead to much greater problems and expenses to ensure the security of the United States than it is now.

Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security

"
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3822852-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-elections-in-united-states.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3822852-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-elections-in-united-states.html)

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 06, 2024, 13:14
Poland: Press remarks by High Representative/Vice-President Josep Borrell after meeting with Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski

I completely agree with you [Minister Sikorski]. At the moment, we have to provide ammunition to Ukraine. It does not matter where this ammunition is being produced. But the problem today is not a lack of capacity of the European industry to produce. It is not that we have to go and buy somewhere else because we are unable to produce – we are able to produce. And an important part of our production is being exported to third countries. So, as I explained to my colleagues Ministers these days, the quickest and cheapest and more effective way of increasing our supply of ammunition to Ukraine is to stop exporting to third countries. This is something that only Member States can do, and this has been my request. And then we will go and buy outside, but maybe there is an easier solution. But I have nothing against buying. And, by the way, keep in mind that apart from the 520,000 ammunition that we have [promised to be] donated to Ukraine, our industry is producing a lot to export to Ukraine. So, when you keep in mind supplies, it is an equation. Supplies are equal to donations plus selling. We are selling on a commercial basis to Ukraine a very great number of ammunitions. For security reasons, I cannot say the figures, even less where this ammunition is coming from. But do not believe that there are only donations. Our industry produces to donate and produces to sell – and produces to sell to others. So, the best way of selling more to Ukraine or to donate more to Ukraine is to try to tell the others, “Please, wait, you are not at war. You can wait some months and divert this production to Ukraine”. This is a political decision that the Member States have to take.

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/poland-press-remarks-high-representativevice-president-josep-borrell-after-meeting-foreign-minister_en (https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/poland-press-remarks-high-representativevice-president-josep-borrell-after-meeting-foreign-minister_en)
___________

Ukrainians are dying defending Ukraine and the EU, and euro-parasites are selling shells to other countries.
Well, Trump will come, I think he will quickly crush parasites.
 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 04:47
On the morning of February 7, russia attacked Ukraine with 64 missiles and drones.

russia used 64 air attack weapons:
- 20 attack drones (UAVs) of the Shahed-136/131 type;
- 29 X-101/X-555/X-55 cruise missiles from 10 Tu-95MS strategic aircraft;
- 4 Kh-22 cruise missiles from Tu-22M3 bombers;
- 3 sea-based cruise missiles "Caliber" from carriers in the Black Sea;
- 3 Iskander-M ballistic missiles;
- 5 S-300 anti-aircraft guided missiles.
_________

Probably the news in the EU and the US will not say anything about this, or very little will be said.
This is the result of the EU's friendly policy towards russia. This is the result of the non-supply of necessary weapons to Ukraine, both in terms of range and quantity.
I know that only on this forum people can read about what is happening in Ukraine. The world's media is controlled by democrats, who are now pursuing a policy of minimal coverage of events in Ukraine. This is being done to boost Biden's as.shole ratings.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/d/4/d4aa1df-photo-2024-02-07-09-45-22--2---1-_690x387.avif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 07, 2024, 06:21

I know that only on this forum people can read about what is happening in Ukraine. The world's media is controlled by democrats, who are now pursuing a policy of minimal coverage of events in Ukraine. This is being done to boost Biden's as.shole ratings.


Completely wrong again. This is just one of many examples from the german "controlled" public media:


https://www.n-tv.de/politik/11-54-EU-Aussenbeauftragter-flieht-vor-Angriffen-in-ukrainischen-Luftschutzkeller--article23143824.html (https://www.n-tv.de/politik/11-54-EU-Aussenbeauftragter-flieht-vor-Angriffen-in-ukrainischen-Luftschutzkeller--article23143824.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 09:19

I know that only on this forum people can read about what is happening in Ukraine. The world's media is controlled by democrats, who are now pursuing a policy of minimal coverage of events in Ukraine. This is being done to boost Biden's as.shole ratings.


Completely wrong again. This is just one of many examples from the german "controlled" public media:


https://www.n-tv.de/politik/11-54-EU-Aussenbeauftragter-flieht-vor-Angriffen-in-ukrainischen-Luftschutzkeller--article23143824.html (https://www.n-tv.de/politik/11-54-EU-Aussenbeauftragter-flieht-vor-Angriffen-in-ukrainischen-Luftschutzkeller--article23143824.html)
::)
What's wrong again?
Where is the information about 64 Russian missiles in your German media?

Re-read the information in my post "#2378 on: Today at 04:47".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 07, 2024, 09:57

I know that only on this forum people can read about what is happening in Ukraine. The world's media is controlled by democrats, who are now pursuing a policy of minimal coverage of events in Ukraine. This is being done to boost Biden's as.shole ratings.


Completely wrong again. This is just one of many examples from the german "controlled" public media:


https://www.n-tv.de/politik/11-54-EU-Aussenbeauftragter-flieht-vor-Angriffen-in-ukrainischen-Luftschutzkeller--article23143824.html (https://www.n-tv.de/politik/11-54-EU-Aussenbeauftragter-flieht-vor-Angriffen-in-ukrainischen-Luftschutzkeller--article23143824.html)
::)
What's wrong again?
Where is the information about 64 Russian missiles in your German media?

Re-read the information in my post "#2378 on: Today at 04:47".

My memory still works quite well. I don't need to read your post again.

I admit that it's certainly difficult to judge the German press landscape if you don't speak the language. That's why you should perhaps leave it alone.

The link went to the NTV live ticker, you just had to scroll down.

The Frankfurter Rundschau also mentioned the 60 or so missiles.

Just admit for once that you've been spreading nonsense (again).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 10:10
The Frankfurter Rundschau also mentioned the 60 or so missiles.

Just admit for once that you've been spreading nonsense (again).
Learn to communicate on forums in cultural language.

I’m not talking nonsense, I just assumed that there will be no or very little information about the war in Ukraine in the EU and US media. I periodically review media from different countries.
But if you were told about 60 missiles today, it means it’s good that you heard.
But the purpose of my post was not only to check the work of the media, but also to point out that the policy being pursued against russia is not effective.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 07, 2024, 10:30
New York Times has a whole section dedicated to the war in Ukraine. Last article was updated 4h ago
But I guess the media is busy with the upcomig interview the maga darling and trump admirer, Tucker Carlson is planning to have with putin, after he did the same with orban, of course, all 4 being Ukraine's best friends. ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 10:41
New York Times has a whole section dedicated to the war in Ukraine. Last article was updated 4h ago
But I guess the media is busy with the upcomig interview the maga darling and trump admirer, Tucker Carlson is planning to have with putin, after he did the same with orban, of course, all 4 being Ukraine's best friends. ::)
OK.
Today the media published this information. But how many people read newspapers? Will this be said and shown on US TV channels... I won’t argue, let’s assume that they will show it on TV. Then at least it's something.
Trump has a lot of fans, Ukraine has nothing to do with Tucker Carlson.
I do not approve of Orban's policies and the work of Tucker Carlson.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 07, 2024, 11:23
The Frankfurter Rundschau also mentioned the 60 or so missiles.

Just admit for once that you've been spreading nonsense (again).
Learn to communicate on forums in cultural language.


The Latin equivalent "non sensus" was already used by the Romans.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a more sophisticated term in cultural language for your fake news and misinformation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 11:56
The Frankfurter Rundschau also mentioned the 60 or so missiles.

Just admit for once that you've been spreading nonsense (again).
Learn to communicate on forums in cultural language.


The Latin equivalent "non sensus" was already used by the Romans.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a more sophisticated term in cultural language for your fake news and misinformation.
On the morning of February 7, russia attacked Ukraine with 64 missiles and drones.

It's fake?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 07, 2024, 12:35
The Frankfurter Rundschau also mentioned the 60 or so missiles.

Just admit for once that you've been spreading nonsense (again).
Learn to communicate on forums in cultural language.


The Latin equivalent "non sensus" was already used by the Romans.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a more sophisticated term in cultural language for your fake news and misinformation.
On the morning of February 7, russia attacked Ukraine with 64 missiles and drones.

It's fake?

Learn to read and understand content correctly.

I was referring exclusively to your conspiracy theory about the international press and refuted it for Germany.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 13:11
I was referring exclusively to your conspiracy theory about the international press and refuted it for Germany.
Probably the news in the EU and the US will not say anything about this, or very little will be said.

This is not a statement, it is an assumption that is based on facts. I periodically watch NBC News, and they don't talk about Ukraine in the main news. They talked last year. Biden doesn’t need negative news about Ukraine now; it lowers his rating.
Learn to read and understand what is written. There is no need to pass off assumptions as propaganda and conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 07, 2024, 13:39
I was referring exclusively to your conspiracy theory about the international press and refuted it for Germany.
Probably the news in the EU and the US will not say anything about this, or very little will be said.

This is not a statement, it is an assumption that is based on facts. I periodically watch NBC News, and they don't talk about Ukraine in the main news. They talked last year. Biden doesn’t need negative news about Ukraine now; it lowers his rating.
Learn to read and understand what is written. There is no need to pass off assumptions as propaganda and conspiracy theories.

This is precisely where the problem lies. You periodically watch the main news from another country and imagine that you have an overview of the entire news situation.

These are not facts, but your own distorted perception, which you are spreading here without restraint.

News channels live from viewers and the world doesn't just consist of Ukraine - except for you.

Since I speak several languages, I've made the effort for you:

https://www.la-croix.com/international/guerre-ukraine-russie-jour-714-point-conflit-ukrainien-poutine-aujourdhui-20240207 (https://www.la-croix.com/international/guerre-ukraine-russie-jour-714-point-conflit-ukrainien-poutine-aujourdhui-20240207)

https://www.elmundo.es/internacional/2024/02/07/65c31fe7d24298002ef50de2-directo.html (https://www.elmundo.es/internacional/2024/02/07/65c31fe7d24298002ef50de2-directo.html)

This is the reporting in Europe. You're not right.

Nobody is hiding anything here, it is very easy to get all the relevant information from the public media in every European country.

I have explained above why not every report appears every day in the main 30-minute evening news bulletins.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 14:08
I was referring exclusively to your conspiracy theory about the international press and refuted it for Germany.
Probably the news in the EU and the US will not say anything about this, or very little will be said.

This is not a statement, it is an assumption that is based on facts. I periodically watch NBC News, and they don't talk about Ukraine in the main news. They talked last year. Biden doesn’t need negative news about Ukraine now; it lowers his rating.
Learn to read and understand what is written. There is no need to pass off assumptions as propaganda and conspiracy theories.

This is precisely where the problem lies. You periodically watch the main news from another country and imagine that you have an overview of the entire news situation.

These are not facts, but your own distorted perception, which you are spreading here without restraint.

News channels live from viewers and the world doesn't just consist of Ukraine - except for you.

Since I speak several languages, I've made the effort for you:

https://www.la-croix.com/international/guerre-ukraine-russie-jour-714-point-conflit-ukrainien-poutine-aujourdhui-20240207 (https://www.la-croix.com/international/guerre-ukraine-russie-jour-714-point-conflit-ukrainien-poutine-aujourdhui-20240207)

https://www.elmundo.es/internacional/2024/02/07/65c31fe7d24298002ef50de2-directo.html (https://www.elmundo.es/internacional/2024/02/07/65c31fe7d24298002ef50de2-directo.html)

This is the reporting in Europe. You're not right.

Nobody is hiding anything here, it is very easy to get all the relevant information from the public media in every European country.

I have explained above why not every report appears every day in the main 30-minute evening news bulletins.
Okay, I didn't argue. We will know that the EU has showed today’s Russian attack. I still don’t understand what you are trying to prove here. You are making up some accusations against me.
But presidential elections are taking place not in the EU, but in the USA. And I have not yet received confirmation that this attack was covered on US TV channels (popular). For example, the morning news. Maybe I didn’t look carefully, but I don’t see any news about Ukraine and the attack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho3R-bQUXZ8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho3R-bQUXZ8)

And most importantly, I drew conclusions. And there is only one conclusion: the EU and the US are doing very little to eliminate the threat from russia. This is the main point of my topic today.

RalfLiebhold, do you want to waste your time arguing?  ;D  How old are you?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 14:11
RalfLiebhold, ok, when something important happens, I will be the first to ask you in this thread whether it is shown in Germany. For the US, let other people answer if they want.
 :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 14:15
and the world doesn't just consist of Ukraine
Here you are mistaken, as many citizens of EU countries are mistaken. The future of the EU and many other countries of the world depends on events in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 07, 2024, 14:19

RalfLiebhold, do you want to waste your time arguing?  ;D  How old are you?

I do indeed feel very young.

I wasn't arguing at all, I was exposing you with facts.

I just don't like it when disturbed opinions are publicly sold as facts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 07, 2024, 15:21

RalfLiebhold, do you want to waste your time arguing?  ;D  How old are you?

I do indeed feel very young.

I wasn't arguing at all, I was exposing you with facts.

I just don't like it when disturbed opinions are publicly sold as facts.
Poor support for Ukraine and weak sanctions against russia are not opinions, they are facts. And I give constant confirmation of these facts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 07, 2024, 15:56

RalfLiebhold, do you want to waste your time arguing?  ;D  How old are you?

I do indeed feel very young.

I wasn't arguing at all, I was exposing you with facts.

I just don't like it when disturbed opinions are publicly sold as facts.
Poor support for Ukraine and weak sanctions against russia are not opinions, they are facts. And I give constant confirmation of these facts.

"I know that only on this forum people can read about what is happening in Ukraine. The world's media is controlled by democrats, who are now pursuing a policy of minimal coverage of events in Ukraine. "

Your statement. I have criticized and refuted your international media bashing. I didn't even mention support for Ukraine and sanctions against Russia.

Once again: just do yourself a favor and admit that you were wrong on this point.

But nice try with the change of subject.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 08, 2024, 06:50
"I know that only on this forum people can read about what is happening in Ukraine. The world's media is controlled by democrats, who are now pursuing a policy of minimal coverage of events in Ukraine. "
I'll answer the question. Yesterday I gave a link to the morning news in the USA, there is not a word about Ukraine. Every day on US TV channels they don’t talk about Ukraine or say very little to give the impression that nothing bad or terrible is happening in Ukraine.
The US media can easily be called the world's media. They are in English. The media in Germany are in German, so they are not world wide.
Regarding my statements about the EU, I answered yesterday that I was not writing a statement, but an assumption.
You, RalfLiebhold, constantly find fault with words and flood the topic.

And I stop making excuses for you, if you don’t understand the context of what was written well, that’s not my problem. Other readers, of whom there are thousands in this topic, do not have such questions. So the problem is your poor education.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 08, 2024, 06:57
So, what do we have:
1. The cowardly, criminal and pro-Russian policies of the US and EU democrats led to the fact that Ukraine was unable to eliminate the Russian terrorist and Na.zi army in 2 years.
2. Republicans don't want to continue funding bad and ineffective Democratic policies.
3. There is a chance (30%) that Trump will make a deal with the Russians and will not help Ukraine with weapons.
4. In 2024, there may be no weapons coming from the United States.
5. Ukraine can, at the cost of millions of lives, wage a war without weapons.

Thus, my personal opinion. If the EU does not start supplying Ukraine with 2 million artillery shells per year, there is no point in continuing the war. It would be advisable for Ukraine to sign a complete surrender. The problems of the EU countries, which will most likely be further occupied by the Russians, will already be the problems of the EU countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 08, 2024, 07:51
 ;D ;D 8) 8)

Russian oil facilities hit by drone attacks, fires

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russian-oil-facilities-hit-by-drone-attacks-fires-2024-01-29/ (https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russian-oil-facilities-hit-by-drone-attacks-fires-2024-01-29/)

(https://www.reuters.com/resizer/Lj5X-xDu4lntve0lHA1rE0DBK1I=/960x0/filters:quality(80)/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/CKW3Z52I45IL7PU5DRLXPBIOHM.jpg)
Firefighters extinguish oil tanks at a storage facility that local authorities say caught fire after the military brought down a Ukrainian drone, in the town of Klintsy in the Bryansk Region, Russia January 19, 2024, in this still image taken from video.

MOSCOW, Feb 5 (Reuters) - Russia energy infrastructure has been hit by drone attacks and fires in the past month, adding to uncertainty in global oil and gas markets already rocked by the conflict in the Middle East.
Russia and Ukraine have targeted each other's energy infrastructure in strikes designed to disrupt supply lines and logistics and to demoralise each other as they bid to get the edge in a nearly two-year-old war that shows no sign of ending.
Following are recent major incidents at Russian oil facilities over the past month:
*Two Ukrainian attack drones struck the largest oil refinery in the country's south on Saturday, Feb. 3, a source in Kyiv told Reuters, the latest in a series of long-range attacks on Russian oil facilities which has reduced Russia's exports of naphtha, a petrochemical feedstock.
Russia's second-largest oil producer Lukoil (LKOH.MM), opens new tab, which owns the 300,000 bpd Volgograd refinery, later said the plant was working as normal.
* A Russian appointed official said on Jan. 18 that Ukraine had tried and failed to target a Russian Baltic Sea oil terminal with a drone. Ukraine said it had hit targets in St Petersburg with domestic-made drone.
Mikhail Skigin, a co-owner of the St Petersburg Oil Terminal, told RBC media that the air defence had thwarted a "monstrous catastrophe", opens new tab, which could lead to human losses and ecological damage to the Baltic Sea.
* Four oil tanks at a large storage facility in the town of Klintsy in Russia's western Bryansk region caught fire on Jan. 19 after the military brought down a Ukrainian strike drone, the regional governor said. A spokesperson for Ukraine's military intelligence agency neither confirmed nor denied Ukraine's involvement.
* A fire tore through Ryazan oil refinery, Russia's third-largest, on Jan 19, the Komsomolskaya Pravda newspaper said, quoting emergency services.
* Russian energy giant Novatek (NVTK.MM), opens new tab on Jan. 21 was forced to suspend some operations at the huge Baltic Sea fuel export terminal at Ust-luga as well as "technological processes" at a nearby fuel-producing complex due to a fire, started by what Ukrainian media said was a drone attack.
Russia will likely cut exports of naphtha by some 127,500-136,000 barrels per day, or around a third of its total exports, after fires disrupted operations at refineries on the Baltic and Black Seas, according to traders and LSEG ship-tracking data.
* Rosneft's (ROSN.MM), opens new tab Tuapse oil refinery in southern Russia halted oil processing and output on Jan. 26 following a fire, two industry sources familiar with the matter told Reuters. A Ukrainian source said Ukrainian drones attacked the refinery on the shores of the Black Sea.
* Lukoil has halted a unit at NORSI, Russia's fourth largest refinery, located near the city of Nizhny Novgorod, some 430 km (270 miles) east of Moscow, after an "incident".
Russian Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak said on Jan. 27 that repair work would take at least a month or a month and a half.
* Russian air defences thwarted a drone attack on Jan. 29 on the Slavneft-YANOS oil refinery in the city of Yaroslavl, northeast of Moscow, regional governor Mikhail Yevrayev said.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 08, 2024, 09:59

2. Republicans don't want to continue funding bad and ineffective Democratic policies.
3. There is a chance (30%) that Trump will make a deal with the Russians and will not help Ukraine with weapons.
4. In 2024, there may be no weapons coming from the United States.
5. Ukraine can, at the cost of millions of lives, wage a war without weapons.

Improved accuracy:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 08, 2024, 12:45
From today in Ukraine there is a new Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Oleksandr Syrskyi.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/OleskandrSyrskyiColonelGeneral.jpg)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Syrskyi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksandr_Syrskyi)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 08, 2024, 12:48
Improved accuracy:
I don't agree. But one thing is clear for now: Republicans do not need Biden’s successes anywhere in 2024. Therefore, all that Biden managed to do in 3 years (and he did everything extremely poorly), is all for him.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 08, 2024, 13:05
I don't agree.

For now.

What is significant is that you moved from 100% "trump will be better for Ukraine" to 70%.  ;D

What is certain is that you will continue this journey all the way to 0%, as we approach the elections, and eventually realize that, even if unsatisfactory for you, what Biden is doing for Ukraine is the best you will ever get.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 08, 2024, 14:28
I don't agree.

For now.

What is significant is that you moved from 100% "trump will be better for Ukraine" to 70%.  ;D

What is certain is that you will continue this journey all the way to 0%, as we approach the elections, and eventually realize that, even if unsatisfactory for you, what Biden is doing for Ukraine is the best you will ever get.
I don't agree.
1. I have always accepted the possibility of Trump colluding with the Russians. But this probability is up to 30%.
2. Even in the event of collusion, I am 80% confident that the Republican Party will be able to compensate for this.
3. Biden's policies are criminal, and Biden is a criminal. His policy 100% would lead Ukraine to occupation. The only question was time.
Thus, the best choice for Ukraine would be a Republican president.
The Democratic Party should be banned in the USA.

Of course with Nikki Haley there is no likelihood that she will collude with the Russians, or this likelihood is much less than with Trump. Therefore, Ukraine will be satisfied with Nikki Haley too.
But my personal opinion is that Trump is more effective. Unless, of course, he makes deals with the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 08, 2024, 15:00

2. Even in the event of collusion, I am 80% confident that the Republican Party will be able to compensate for this.


Yes, indeed. 🙄
Here is what another maga republican darling just posted:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 08, 2024, 16:39

And I stop making excuses for you, if you don’t understand the context of what was written well, that’s not my problem. Other readers, of whom there are thousands in this topic, do not have such questions. So the problem is your poor education.

At this point, despite my poor education, I would like to quote Schopenhauer - also to your thousands of silent, invisible fans::

Revoke a wrong view requires more character than to defend it.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 08, 2024, 17:12


I know that only on this forum people can read about what is happening in Ukraine. The world's media is controlled by democrats, who are now pursuing a policy of minimal coverage of events in Ukraine.



Yes, that is indeed a huge problem. Apart from you, we can't find out anything about Ukraine in Germany. That's terrible!

That's a major problem in democratically governed countries. Everything is controlled, compliant with the government and pro-Russian censored. That includes all the media.

That's the big difference to non-democratically governed, authoritarian systems. There, everyone can really follow what is happening in the world in the free media, unfiltered and without fake news. 

But even for us poor sausages in a democratically governed country, there is one big ray of hope: You! Thank you for letting us participate in life out there with uncolored, neutral reporting. Trump would say: Great!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 08, 2024, 17:34
From today in Ukraine there is a new Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
Oleksandr Syrskyi.

Thank you for posting this. Here in Germany - unfortunately democratically governed - we don't get any information about such things - apart from a few exceptions...

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukraine-wolodymyr-selenskyj-kuendigt-veraenderungen-an-armeespitze-an-a-188a8366-d45a-422d-8172-fe61925e80e5 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukraine-wolodymyr-selenskyj-kuendigt-veraenderungen-an-armeespitze-an-a-188a8366-d45a-422d-8172-fe61925e80e5)

https://www.rnd.de/politik/liveticker-ukraine-krieg-aktuell-alle-news-donnerstag-08-02-2024-HE2HCGE6JQFTFWLUN43NO5POI4.html (https://www.rnd.de/politik/liveticker-ukraine-krieg-aktuell-alle-news-donnerstag-08-02-2024-HE2HCGE6JQFTFWLUN43NO5POI4.html)

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article249995650/Ukraine-Selenskyj-setzt-Armee-Chef-Saluschnyj-nach-gescheiterter-Gegenoffensive-ab.html (https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article249995650/Ukraine-Selenskyj-setzt-Armee-Chef-Saluschnyj-nach-gescheiterter-Gegenoffensive-ab.html)

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/saluschnyj-ukraine-entlassen-selenskij-armeechef-1.6346197 (https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/saluschnyj-ukraine-entlassen-selenskij-armeechef-1.6346197)

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/ukraine/armeechef-der-ukraine-saluschnyj-geht-den-neuen-gegebenheiten-anpassen-19507164.html (https://www.faz.net/aktuell/ukraine/armeechef-der-ukraine-saluschnyj-geht-den-neuen-gegebenheiten-anpassen-19507164.html)

I could add hundreds more exceptions to these few. Just for this one piece of news.

By the way: Would you like some links on the subject of Trump/Ukraine? 10, 20, 100? Let me know! I'd be happy to show you what the local media are saying on the subject.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 08, 2024, 19:43
1. I have always accepted the possibility of Trump colluding with the Russians. But this probability is up to 30%.
2. Even in the event of collusion, I am 80% confident that the Republican Party will be able to compensate for this.

Improved accuracy:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 09, 2024, 00:43
… simply, USA came to the point where they don’t need and can’t support Ukraine with their needs for a weapons… You can’t provide enough rockets for Patriot, when Shahed cost next to nothing and one missile for effective Patriot costs $4millions… if they send 50 of Shaheds at the time, who will shoot all of them with that expensive Patriot missile…?! And they are doing that almost daily - sending those tractor drones in waves and followed with cruise missiles… simply mathematics and economics don’t make sense…
Best way for Ukraine is to make some kind of deal with Russia and to save young people, lately even older male population, to be killed in meaningless war…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 09, 2024, 05:35


I know that only on this forum people can read about what is happening in Ukraine. The world's media is controlled by democrats, who are now pursuing a policy of minimal coverage of events in Ukraine.



Yes, that is indeed a huge problem. Apart from you, we can't find out anything about Ukraine in Germany. That's terrible!

That's a major problem in democratically governed countries. Everything is controlled, compliant with the government and pro-Russian censored. That includes all the media.

That's the big difference to non-democratically governed, authoritarian systems. There, everyone can really follow what is happening in the world in the free media, unfiltered and without fake news. 

But even for us poor sausages in a democratically governed country, there is one big ray of hope: You! Thank you for letting us participate in life out there with uncolored, neutral reporting. Trump would say: Great!
;D ;D ;D
+100
 :) ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 09, 2024, 05:36
… simply, USA came to the point where they don’t need and can’t support Ukraine with their needs for a weapons… You can’t provide enough rockets for Patriot, when Shahed cost next to nothing and one missile for effective Patriot costs $4millions… if they send 50 of Shaheds at the time, who will shoot all of them with that expensive Patriot missile…?! And they are doing that almost daily - sending those tractor drones in waves and followed with cruise missiles… simply mathematics and economics don’t make sense…
Best way for Ukraine is to make some kind of deal with Russia and to save young people, lately even older male population, to be killed in meaningless war…

That is certainly a good point, with the question of whether and for how long this imbalance can be evened out.
The same also applies to "personnel", especially as Russia is acting much more unscrupulously here.
Nor should we forget that there are other conflicts in the world.

In the end, wishful thinking will probably fail in the face of bitter reality.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 09, 2024, 05:36

And I stop making excuses for you, if you don’t understand the context of what was written well, that’s not my problem. Other readers, of whom there are thousands in this topic, do not have such questions. So the problem is your poor education.

At this point, despite my poor education, I would like to quote Schopenhauer - also to your thousands of silent, invisible fans::

Revoke a wrong view requires more character than to defend it.
Doctor, views and politics are not your specialty or specialization. Stop diagnosing!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 09, 2024, 05:40
… simply, USA came to the point where they don’t need and can’t support Ukraine with their needs for a weapons… You can’t provide enough rockets for Patriot, when Shahed cost next to nothing and one missile for effective Patriot costs $4millions… if they send 50 of Shaheds at the time, who will shoot all of them with that expensive Patriot missile…?! And they are doing that almost daily - sending those tractor drones in waves and followed with cruise missiles… simply mathematics and economics don’t make sense…
Best way for Ukraine is to make some kind of deal with Russia and to save young people, lately even older male population, to be killed in meaningless war…
1. Ukraine does not fire expensive missiles at drones. They shoot at drones with machine guns, cheap Soviet hand-held missile systems, and Germany also supplies anti-aircraft machine guns that are good at shooting down drones.
2. There can only be one deal with the Russians - the complete surrender of Ukraine. The Russians' target is not only Ukraine, but also at least half of the EU countries. Also, in the event of capitulation, a lot of Ukrainians will be killed and deported to Siberia and the North of the Russian Empire. Ukrainian language, history, culture, museums will be destroyed. On the territory of Ukraine, the Russians created many concentration camps and torture chambers.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 09, 2024, 05:44

2. Even in the event of collusion, I am 80% confident that the Republican Party will be able to compensate for this.


Yes, indeed. 🙄
Here is what another maga republican darling just posted:
1. In the USA, only Republican supporters commit crimes? Does the Democratic electorate commit no crimes?
2. The fact that a US citizen can go to Na.zi russia and engage in anti-human propaganda speaks of the ineffective policies of Biden and the Democrats. It is the Democrats who allow their citizens to help the Russian Na.zis.
3. This “journalist” is not running for President of the United States. I didn’t write that you need to vote for him.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 09, 2024, 05:47
Thank you for posting this. Here in Germany - unfortunately democratically governed - we don't get any information about such things - apart from a few exceptions...
You didn't read me well yesterday. I wrote that the problem is that in the USA they talk very little about Ukraine or say nothing at all. Regarding the EU, I was just asking a question. And the fate of both Ukraine and half of the EU countries and not only the EU depends on the US policy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 09, 2024, 05:50
Let's move on to the good news. They won't show this on TV in Germany.  ;D

The Ukrainian Armed Forces storm the positions of the Russian orcs and eliminate them. There are English subtitles.

https://youtu.be/SI6rAHtDGtc (https://youtu.be/SI6rAHtDGtc)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 09, 2024, 05:51
… for sure, other big conflicts are not in Ukraines favor… USA, because of Israel have totally moved their weapons potential ans resources to Middle East… Russians, with all their ressoirce and personnel potential are slow in advancing, but on other habd they arr not in hurry - time works for them…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on February 09, 2024, 06:08
… simply, USA came to the point where they don’t need and can’t support Ukraine with their needs for a weapons… You can’t provide enough rockets for Patriot, when Shahed cost next to nothing and one missile for effective Patriot costs $4millions… if they send 50 of Shaheds at the time, who will shoot all of them with that expensive Patriot missile…?! And they are doing that almost daily - sending those tractor drones in waves and followed with cruise missiles… simply mathematics and economics don’t make sense…

The Patriot system is not intended to shoot down cheap drones. The Ukraine has other systems for that like the German Flakpanzer Gepard (anti aircraft tank). The Patriot systems should be able to differentiate between drones and missiles and only shoot down the latter.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 09, 2024, 06:20
… for sure they are not designed for that, but lately to much of Shaheds and other flying tractors are passing throgh… ammuniton for Flakpanzer and combined AA guns shouldn’t be so expensive to spray the sky with thise… Shaheds are not smarter, but something is in decline or deficitary…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 09, 2024, 15:01
Doctor, views and politics are not your specialty or specialization. Stop diagnosing!

What are your skills, expertise or specialization?

I know a lot about views. Millions of people like to watch trash reality shows on TV. This has nothing to do with approval, but rather that shaming others has a positive psychological effect.

At least here in the forum, your approval rating is close to zero.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 10, 2024, 05:07
At least here in the forum, your approval rating is close to zero.
Where can I see your rating? I see that 2 of your friends constantly upvote all your posts. Is this what you call a rating?
I keep statistics on views of this topic. Approximately 4,000 people read the topic per week. Most are not registered on the forum. People who are not registered do not even see your two pluses.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 10, 2024, 17:15
 >:( >:( >:( >:(

Starlink on the russian position.

https://twitter.com/Lavrovskyi/status/1756267760017883476
_____

The Ukrainian military reports that Russians are now using Starlink in the frontline zones. 🤯

Russia began purchasing Elon Musk's Starlink service through Dubai with fully licensed accounts.

Can you please confirm or deny this information?
@elonmusk

https://twitter.com/DimaZeniuk/status/1755621460079452418
_________

Russians start using Starlink more actively on the frontline

The Russians have started using Starlink terminals from Elon Musk's SpaceX at their positions.

Details: As noted, Russians are obtaining Starlink terminals through "parallel import" or so-called volunteer resellers. The purchase is made through third-party countries and intermediary individuals.

SpaceX, which manufactures Starlink terminals, has stated that the company is not engaged in any dealings with the Russian Federation, its military, or the UAE. However, the company has mentioned deactivating terminals obtained without the appropriate licence.

"If SpaceX receives information that a sanctioned or unauthorised party is using the Starlink terminal, we investigate the claim and take measures to deactivate the terminal if confirmed," the company stated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 10, 2024, 17:23
Zelensky on Kharkiv tragedy: Terror cannot remain without fair response
10.02.2024 16:10


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has reacted to a deadly Russian drone attack on Kharkiv, saying that Russian terror cannot remain without a fair response.

"Reality always speaks louder than any words. An entire family was killed in a fire last night as a result of a Russian strike on Kharkiv using Shahed drones. Parents and their three children were killed," he said.

Zelensky said that Oleksiy, the older son, was seven; Mykhailo, the middle son, was six; and Pavlo, the younger son, was only seven months old. "These children had not yet seen life, but were killed as a result of Russian madness," he said.

Zelensky added that another family had been killed: a man and his wife.

The head of state expressed his condolences to the victims' loved ones.

"The rescue operation in Kharkiv is ongoing. Four people were rescued, including a child. Dozens of people were evacuated," Zelensky said.

He said that all services were working and that everyone affected would receive the necessary aid.

Zelensky thanked everyone who helps Ukraine and Ukrainians defend against Russian terror, because every act of support is critical.

"It is also critical to realize that this terror cannot go unpunished or remain without a fair response. Terrorists must lose the war they started. Russia must be held accountable for every life it has harmed and ruined. This is the only way to make security a reality again," he said.

Earlier reports said that 15 private homes in Kharkiv had burned down as a result of Russian kamikaze drones hitting an oil depot and a fuel leak that ensued.

(https://zn.ua/img/article/5823/69_main-v1707600900.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 11, 2024, 02:54
… haven’t bakery being shoot in Lysychansk,  on teritory occupied by Russians last week…?! In total, 28 dead civilians…

 https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/03/russian-says-11-killed-in-ukrainian-shelling-of-bakery-in-lysychansk


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 11, 2024, 03:40
… haven’t bakery being shoot in Lysychansk,  on teritory occupied by Russians last week…?! In total, 28 dead civilians…

 https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/03/russian-says-11-killed-in-ukrainian-shelling-of-bakery-in-lysychansk (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/03/russian-says-11-killed-in-ukrainian-shelling-of-bakery-in-lysychansk)
1. Everything the Russians say is lies, disinformation and propaganda.
2. Any publication that quotes Russians also spreads Russian propaganda.
3. Russian Na.zis will never allow international commissions to conduct investigations into the territory they occupied and into the territory of russia itself.

There is little information about this city. Ukraine does not control this occupied city. The Russians report 3 liquidated occupiers. There can be many options:
1. The Russians liquidated them themselves and blame the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
2. They were liquidated by the Ukrainian Armed Forces. But taking into account the disinformation and propaganda spread by the Russians, Ukraine does not comment on this operation.
3. The Russians shelled the restaurant with artillery and blamed the Ukrainian Armed Forces (they have been doing this for 10 years in all occupied territories).

I can only assume that the Ukrainian Armed Forces liquidated 3 occupiers, and there are no 28 killed civilians. There are no photos of the dead anywhere.
The Ukrainian media wrote about this briefly:

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/5/7440435/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/5/7440435/)

As for the territory of Ukraine, any independent observers and commissions come to Ukraine and gain access to crimes committed by Russians. Ukraine does not hide anything and does not lie.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 11, 2024, 03:47
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68203541.amp (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68203541.amp)

https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/04/at-least-28-dead-after-bakery-shelled-in-russian-occupied-ukraine (https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/04/at-least-28-dead-after-bakery-shelled-in-russian-occupied-ukraine)

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-appointed-official-says-ukraine-shells-bakery-occupied-eastern-ukraine-2024-02-03/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-appointed-official-says-ukraine-shells-bakery-occupied-eastern-ukraine-2024-02-03/)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-03/russia-ukraine-war-officials-claim-ukraine-bombed-bakery-in-occupied-region (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-03/russia-ukraine-war-officials-claim-ukraine-bombed-bakery-in-occupied-region)

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-lysychansk-bakery-shelling-war-61ce6fc809bd73ac0fa994e8b7e84286#:~:text=Email-,Ukrainian%20shelling%20killed%20at%20least%2028%20people%20at%20a%20bakery,%2C%20Moscow%2Dinstalled%20officials%20said. (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-lysychansk-bakery-shelling-war-61ce6fc809bd73ac0fa994e8b7e84286#:~:text=Email-,Ukrainian%20shelling%20killed%20at%20least%2028%20people%20at%20a%20bakery,%2C%20Moscow%2Dinstalled%20officials%20said.)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 11, 2024, 04:32
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68203541.amp (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68203541.amp)

https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/04/at-least-28-dead-after-bakery-shelled-in-russian-occupied-ukraine (https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/04/at-least-28-dead-after-bakery-shelled-in-russian-occupied-ukraine)

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-appointed-official-says-ukraine-shells-bakery-occupied-eastern-ukraine-2024-02-03/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-appointed-official-says-ukraine-shells-bakery-occupied-eastern-ukraine-2024-02-03/)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-03/russia-ukraine-war-officials-claim-ukraine-bombed-bakery-in-occupied-region (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-03/russia-ukraine-war-officials-claim-ukraine-bombed-bakery-in-occupied-region)

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-lysychansk-bakery-shelling-war-61ce6fc809bd73ac0fa994e8b7e84286#:~:text=Email-,Ukrainian%20shelling%20killed%20at%20least%2028%20people%20at%20a%20bakery,%2C%20Moscow%2Dinstalled%20officials%20said. (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-lysychansk-bakery-shelling-war-61ce6fc809bd73ac0fa994e8b7e84286#:~:text=Email-,Ukrainian%20shelling%20killed%20at%20least%2028%20people%20at%20a%20bakery,%2C%20Moscow%2Dinstalled%20officials%20said.)
1. If you repeat a lie 1000 times, does it become true?
2. For what purpose do the world media controlled by democrats quote Russian propaganda and lies?
3. Where do you see at least 1 killed civilian in the photo?
4. If the world media believes the Russians so much, why don’t they create a commission to investigate and go to the city occupied by the Russians? It is clear that the Russians will not let anyone in and will not show the bodies of the 28 killed (which are not there). But all these “democratic” media are afraid to send their journalists to the occupied territory.

Of course, the safest thing to do is to quote Russian lies and blame Ukraine, which the Russians are destroying every day.
This all looks disgusting and cynical. Journalists from all these media outlets are cowardly dogs. Who bark at the one who is weaker, and quote the one who is stronger..

Fuck the Democrats!
__________

If Western media are spreading Russian propaganda, why are democratic countries helping Ukraine? Believe what the Russians say, believe putin. Do not supply weapons to Ukraine, do not give money to Ukraine, expel all Ukrainian refugees. It was Ukraine that started the war with russia, according to the Russians. What else are the Russians saying? There are a lot of Na.zis in Ukraine, which means we need to kill Ukrainians. Open Russian newspapers and you will read a lot of things that you personally like.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 11, 2024, 04:42
I will explain why Ukraine lost this information war. Because the Russians announced 28 civilians killed. If Ukraine starts telling the truth, the Russians will catch these 28 people on the streets and kill them. Therefore, Ukraine maintains silence and tries to prevent a possible crime.
The same applies to the plane that was shot down by the Ukrainian Armed Forces a few weeks ago. There were no Ukrainian prisoners on the plane, but it was better to remain silent than to receive photographs of dozens of corpses.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 11, 2024, 04:49
trucic, I apologize for my emotional speech. I have no complaints against you, you help support this topic. And it’s very good that you asked questions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 11, 2024, 04:59
I’m just saying that people are dying on both sides, in most cases civilians… ukraine is totally devasted, depopulated and ruined… as long as this operation or war lasts, your country heads to non-returning point… simply, there are no winners - just killed people and ruined cities…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 11, 2024, 05:00
CNN
 —
Former President Donald Trump on Saturday said he would encourage Russia to do “whatever . they want” to any NATO member country that doesn’t meet spending guidelines on defense in a stunning admission he would not abide by the collective-defense clause at the heart of the alliance if reelected.

“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html)

 ;D :o ::) 8) :-\
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 11, 2024, 05:04
I’m just saying that people are dying on both sides, in most cases civilians… ukraine is totally devasted, depopulated and ruined… as long as this operation or war lasts, your country heads to non-returning point… simply, there are no winners - just killed people and ruined cities…
Yes, there is a war and Ukrainians are dying. But if you read the story about the 3 Holodomors that the Russians committed in the 20th century in Ukraine, you will understand that if Ukraine is occupied, there will be even more victims.
Ukrainians do not want to be left without a country, without the Ukrainian language, culture, and history. Ukrainians do not want to live in Nazi russia, they do not want to be slaves like the Russians, they do not want to sit in prisons, concentration camps and be deported to the north of russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 11, 2024, 05:47
Regarding the speech of the future US President Trump.
I recommend that EU countries increase military assistance to Ukraine several times, as well as supply the necessary weapons. These are aircraft, missiles, tanks. If the Russians occupy Ukraine and approach the borders of the EU, the cost of war in the EU will begin to be measured in trillions of euros. Also, many EU countries will be occupied, or there will be war on their territory.
Therefore, it is better to eliminate the Russian army in Ukraine than to wait until it approaches the EU borders.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 11, 2024, 10:17
… it seems that Chasiv Yar have fallen…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 11, 2024, 17:41
CNN
 —
Former President Donald Trump on Saturday said he would encourage Russia to do “whatever . they want” to any NATO member country that doesn’t meet spending guidelines on defense in a stunning admission he would not abide by the collective-defense clause at the heart of the alliance if reelected.

“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html)

 ;D :o ::) 8) :-\

Yeah, the moron said he will not be helping our NATO allies and even letting them be invaded by russia, because of some accounting issues. He'd even "encourage" russia "to do whatever the h.e.l.l. they want."
A clear message to his buddy putin.

And you keep believing that he will help Ukraine, who never contributed anything to NATO funds, to repel putin's army?
 
What a sad delusion!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 11, 2024, 17:52
I would like to repeat that again. If this happens - and I assume that it will - the European NATO states will be very concerned about their own armaments, which would not be good for Ukraine.
What's more, NATO would then possibly have a different self-definition and orientation. We will see.

But the fact remains: Putin will open a bottle of Crimean champagne if Trump wins and celebrate properly!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 03:40
… it seems that Chasiv Yar have fallen…
No.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 03:42
CNN
 —
Former President Donald Trump on Saturday said he would encourage Russia to do “whatever . they want” to any NATO member country that doesn’t meet spending guidelines on defense in a stunning admission he would not abide by the collective-defense clause at the heart of the alliance if reelected.

“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html)

 ;D :o ::) 8) :-\

Yeah, the moron said he will not be helping our NATO allies and even letting them be invaded by russia, because of some accounting issues. He'd even "encourage" russia "to do whatever the h.e.l.l. they want."
A clear message to his buddy putin.

And you keep believing that he will help Ukraine, who never contributed anything to NATO funds, to repel putin's army?
 
What a sad delusion!
Trump says everything correctly. How else to talk to the euro parasites?
He didn’t say anything about Ukraine. Therefore, these are just your fantasies. More precisely, he said that he did not want to give money for nothing. No problem. The main thing is that he provides the necessary weapons.
Trump is an evil cop, I already wrote.
 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 03:47
I would like to repeat that again. If this happens - and I assume that it will - the European NATO states will be very concerned about their own armaments, which would not be good for Ukraine.
What's more, NATO would then possibly have a different self-definition and orientation. We will see.

But the fact remains: Putin will open a bottle of Crimean champagne if Trump wins and celebrate properly!
KGB agent Putin can reveal anything on TV cameras. Any actions of the KGB are disinformation, lies and propaganda. The KGB is the same as the Gestapo.

You are not a military man, so your reasoning is incorrect. The main task of the military is not to sign the Russian army of marauders, Asians and murderers to the borders of the EU. Military men think strategically. Nobody wants military actions to take place on the territory of Germany, for example, or Poland or Moldova.
And yes, Trump will put a lot of pressure on the euro parasites. Get ready for big expenses both for the NATO fund and for the supply of weapons to the front in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 12, 2024, 04:31
… as long as democrats are on presidenrial position, Ukraine can expect to have support for resisting Russain occupation… but if Trump wins, be sure that war in aukraine will be his latest concern… he is a businessman, at first… if he can and if Ukraine have money to pay for it, he will for sure sell old weapon supplies to anyone who desperatelly needs them… that will activate internal needs for new weapons, made in the USA…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 12, 2024, 08:11
CNN
 —
Former President Donald Trump on Saturday said he would encourage Russia to do “whatever . they want” to any NATO member country that doesn’t meet spending guidelines on defense in a stunning admission he would not abide by the collective-defense clause at the heart of the alliance if reelected.

“NATO was busted until I came along,” Trump said at a rally in Conway, South Carolina. “I said, ‘Everybody’s gonna pay.’ They said, ‘Well, if we don’t pay, are you still going to protect us?’ I said, ‘Absolutely not.’ They couldn’t believe the answer.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/10/politics/trump-russia-nato/index.html)

 ;D :o ::) 8) :-\

Yeah, the moron said he will not be helping our NATO allies and even letting them be invaded by russia, because of some accounting issues. He'd even "encourage" russia "to do whatever the h.e.l.l. they want."
A clear message to his buddy putin.

And you keep believing that he will help Ukraine, who never contributed anything to NATO funds, to repel putin's army?
 
What a sad delusion!
Trump says everything correctly. How else to talk to the euro parasites?
He didn’t say anything about Ukraine. Therefore, these are just your fantasies. More precisely, he said that he did not want to give money for nothing. No problem. The main thing is that he provides the necessary weapons.
Trump is an evil cop, I already wrote.
 ;D

What a sad delusion!

He will let his allies to be invaded by his buddy putin, but he will help Ukraine to repel putin!
You know... because logic.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 10:03
Near Moscow, before the "Skiing of russia" marathon, Russians lined up at the start with the letter Z.

https://t.me/voynareal/83652 (https://t.me/voynareal/83652)

Russians are a nation of Na.zis, orcs and slaves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 10:08
Patriarch Kirill and putin were ridiculed at the carnival in Germany.

(https://img.tsn.ua/cached/363/tsn-d2873c8d912123241057e3290f2c54af/thumbs/1036x648/d7/ba/d25aaac5441c37b50d42ed6e3040bad7.jpeg)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 10:17
Elimination of Russian orcs with the help of a Ukrainian anti-tank missile system.

https://t.me/operativnoZSU/136061 (https://t.me/operativnoZSU/136061)

 8) 8) 8)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 10:19
trucic, Zero Talent. Everything will be OK. Trump says everything correctly. I would say exactly the same.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 12, 2024, 11:59
… Avdiivka cauldron is almost formed and after that important routes to Slovyansk and Kramatorsk are very exposed…eith Chasiv Yar in Russian hands, coming of spring leads to new destructions…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 12:22
… Avdiivka cauldron is almost formed and after that important routes to Slovyansk and Kramatorsk are very exposed…eith Chasiv Yar in Russian hands, coming of spring leads to new destructions…
Do you read Russian news?

1. Chasiv Yar is under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. There are no Russians there.
2. There are battles for the city of Avdiivka. The Armed Forces of Ukraine have already changed the commander-in-chief. Reinforcements have been sent to Avdiivka.
3. Even if the Ukrainian Armed Forces withdraw from Avdiivka, the defense line is prepared.
4. Slovyansk and Kramatorsk are not in danger yet.

But of course the Ukrainian Armed Forces need weapons. Lots of weapons. The goal is not defense, but offense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 12, 2024, 14:56
trucic, Zero Talent. Everything will be OK. Trump says everything correctly. I would say exactly the same.
 ;D ;D ;D

Of course. Since you both share the same infantile behavior and lack of logic, there's no doubt about it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 12, 2024, 15:06
… what about tsar train protection line…?! Two thousand wagons..?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 12, 2024, 15:36
… what about tsar train protection line…?! Two thousand wagons..?!
The Russians have already made defense lines from some kind of “dragon teeth”. Those teeth didn't help them.
These 2000 railway carriages are not very long compared to the entire length of the front. They are defensive in nature. If the Ukrainian Armed Forces will advance, which is only possible with a sufficient number of weapons, these railway carriages will fly in all directions. Or the Ukrainian Armed Forces will outflank them.
But an offensive requires aviation, missiles, and tanks.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 12, 2024, 15:55
I would like to repeat that again. If this happens - and I assume that it will - the European NATO states will be very concerned about their own armaments, which would not be good for Ukraine.
What's more, NATO would then possibly have a different self-definition and orientation. We will see.

But the fact remains: Putin will open a bottle of Crimean champagne if Trump wins and celebrate properly!

And yes, Trump will put a lot of pressure on the euro parasites. Get ready for big expenses both for the NATO fund and for the supply of weapons to the front in Ukraine.


"Get ready for big expenses."

You know what? Your parastite comments are really getting on my nerves!

We're spending billions on Ukraine! And you insult us without ceasing! We hardly have any ammunition left because it's all going to Ukraine. We're spending a lot of money on Ukrainian refugees. Our population is starting to rebel because the money is missing everywhere.

And if Trump comes to power, what I have already written will happen: We will be forced to worry about our own defense and no longer about Ukraine's.
At the same time, Trump's America First policy will lead to him imposing toll tariffs on European products. Germany lives very much on exports. This means that we will have to accept significant economic losses. There will be even more money missing - there will be less left over for Ukraine.

And if Trump does not like to support his existing NATO allies, he will be even like less to support Ukraine. As you already wrote: He didn't even mention Ukraine. He simply doesn't care. The only thing he is interested is is America first.

That's exactly the scenario you want???!!!! You will wake up one day and ask yourself how you came up with the idea of wishing for this. You don't seriously believe that Trump will attack Russia, do you?

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 12, 2024, 17:28


You know what? Your parastite comments are really getting on my nerves!

We're spending billions on Ukraine! And you insult us without ceasing! We hardly have any ammunition left because it's all going to Ukraine. We're spending a lot of money on Ukrainian refugees. Our population is starting to rebel because the money is missing everywhere.



Wilm, these discussions with this guy no longer make sense.
We've all tried that.
You'd be better off explaining to a sandwich that it should go jogging every day for health reasons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 12, 2024, 17:32


You know what? Your parastite comments are really getting on my nerves!

We're spending billions on Ukraine! And you insult us without ceasing! We hardly have any ammunition left because it's all going to Ukraine. We're spending a lot of money on Ukrainian refugees. Our population is starting to rebel because the money is missing everywhere.



Wilm, these discussions with this guy no longer make sense.
We've all tried that.
You'd be better off explaining to a sandwich that it should go jogging every day for health reasons.

Ja, you're right! Talking to a square meter of wallpaper is similarly pointless!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 12, 2024, 19:56
…. Zelenskyy have just declared general mobilization…?! That explains why Zhaluzny have been removed… he knew something and was resisting to participate in such a thing…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on February 12, 2024, 23:12
He simply doesn't care. The only thing he is interested is is America first.

The only thing that nasty piece of garbage cares about is himself first.  He would destroy Ukraine, the U.S. or even his own family if he thought it would help his own self.  I don't know what exactly Putin has over him but Orange Jesus is acting as a Russian asset to further Putin's goals in the world.  The sooner that nasty scumbag is in jail the better and safer the world will be for all of us.  Hopefully he and Putin will both get what they deserve.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 13, 2024, 00:25
“ In war, the state gives cannons, the rich give livestock, & the poor give their sons! And no one gives peace and wisdom. At the end of the war, the state takes cannons, the rich take livestock, and the poor look for their son's graves."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 13, 2024, 05:26
We're spending billions on Ukraine! And you insult us without ceasing! We hardly have any ammunition left because it's all going to Ukraine. We're spending a lot of money on Ukrainian refugees. Our population is starting to rebel because the money is missing everywhere.
When the Russians approach the EU borders or enter Poland, you will be spending trillions of euros.
All the money you give to Ukrainians remains in your country and in the EU. This money works for the EU economy. Refugees also work and pay taxes. I saw the statistics, the amount of these taxes is no less than the aid that the EU pays to refugees.
And I didn’t personally call you a parasite.  ;D I'm talking about your politicians and big business.

I have already answered the rest of your misconceptions on the previous page, please re-read.

It is your parasitic politicians and friends of the Russians who decided that Ukraine should only be given artillery shells and make sure that in the 21st century Ukraine wages war using the methods of the First World War. I also already wrote about this. They are idiots! If Ukraine were given aviation, 500-2000 km missiles and tanks, the shell consumption would be 10 times less. In modern warfare, everything is decided by aircraft and missiles.
I'm not even talking about the fact that you send a lot of weapons for export, and not to Ukraine.
Obviously you really want to see Russian tanks on the streets of your cities.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 13, 2024, 05:28
He simply doesn't care. The only thing he is interested is is America first.

The only thing that nasty piece of garbage cares about is himself first.  He would destroy Ukraine, the U.S. or even his own family if he thought it would help his own self.  I don't know what exactly Putin has over him but Orange Jesus is acting as a Russian asset to further Putin's goals in the world.  The sooner that nasty scumbag is in jail the better and safer the world will be for all of us.  Hopefully he and Putin will both get what they deserve.
I don't agree. Biden needs to be put in prison, and not only in prison, but also in the electric chair. The US Democratic Party needs to be banned.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 13, 2024, 05:34


You know what? Your parastite comments are really getting on my nerves!

We're spending billions on Ukraine! And you insult us without ceasing! We hardly have any ammunition left because it's all going to Ukraine. We're spending a lot of money on Ukrainian refugees. Our population is starting to rebel because the money is missing everywhere.



Wilm, these discussions with this guy no longer make sense.
We've all tried that.
You'd be better off explaining to a sandwich that it should go jogging every day for health reasons.
Doctor, take some pills, you know which ones.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 13, 2024, 05:49
I am against the fact that Ukrainians left as refugees for other countries. It is not necessary. There are a lot of safe places and territories in Ukraine.
Some people go not because they are afraid of war, but because the EU offers them cash benefits and housing. People want to improve their financial situation, take their children to the EU, and give them a better education there. Some want to marry a foreigner and obtain citizenship.
In the Ukrainian press I read about stories where in EU countries their children are taken from mothers and given to other families. In this way, EU countries are trying to solve their demographic problems and problems with fertility.
Therefore, if you are Germans, you think that I will thank you for accepting refugees, you are mistaken. I won't thank you for that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on February 13, 2024, 12:26
Refugees also work and pay taxes. I saw the statistics, the amount of these taxes is no less than the aid that the EU pays to refugees.

Is Russia Today the source of these statistics?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 13, 2024, 12:38
We're spending billions on Ukraine! And you insult us without ceasing! We hardly have any ammunition left because it's all going to Ukraine. We're spending a lot of money on Ukrainian refugees. Our population is starting to rebel because the money is missing everywhere.

Refugees also work and pay taxes. I saw the statistics, the amount of these taxes is no less than the aid that the EU pays to refugees.
And I didn’t personally call you a parasite.  ;D I'm talking about your politicians and big business.


Nonsense!

I have no idea where you get this information from, but it's total nonsense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 13, 2024, 12:40
I am against the fact that Ukrainians left as refugees for other countries. It is not necessary. There are a lot of safe places and territories in Ukraine.
Some people go not because they are afraid of war, but because the EU offers them cash benefits and housing. People want to improve their financial situation, take their children to the EU, and give them a better education there. Some want to marry a foreigner and obtain citizenship.
In the Ukrainian press I read about stories where in EU countries their children are taken from mothers and given to other families. In this way, EU countries are trying to solve their demographic problems and problems with fertility.
Therefore, if you are Germans, you think that I will thank you for accepting refugees, you are mistaken. I won't thank you for that.

When I read statements like that, I wonder what kind of conspiracy bubble you're in right now!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 13, 2024, 13:52

Refugees also work and pay taxes. I saw the statistics, the amount of these taxes is no less than the aid that the EU pays to refugees.


You have certainly seen white rabbits and Elvis running around in the statistics.

What a load of lying nonsense.

Let's have a few facts.

Ukraine's asylum seekers are not funded by the EU, but by the individual states.

There are currently 1.1 million Ukrainian asylum seekers living in Germany.

There are no reliable statistics on the costs in Germany. This is due to the fact that funding is provided by the federal states and the german government from various sources. In addition, Ukrainians are not treated as asylum seekers, but as long-term unemployed Germans.

The cost of healthcare cannot be estimated as well because Ukrainians, like all Germans, are members of the statutory healthcare system. Billing for treatment is carried out by the associations of statutory health insurance physicians (Kassenärztliche Vereinigung) and does not differentiate between Ukrainians and Germans.

Brief summary for the learning disabled: There are currently no reliable figures for the costs in Germany. The EU cannot provide any statistics because it is not involved in the financing.

But even if there were, here are more facts.

Of the 1.1 million Ukrainians, a quarter are under the age of 18. Of the rest, only around 30% work, mostly in mini-jobs from which no social security contributions or taxes are paid at all.

You have to be a pretty mathematical zero to assume that under these conditions there is a plus for Germany.

I'm a bit sorry that I'm slowly losing my net etiquette, but your constant insults, gutter language and spreading of lies are increasingly getting on my nerves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 13, 2024, 14:04

Refugees also work and pay taxes. I saw the statistics, the amount of these taxes is no less than the aid that the EU pays to refugees.


You have certainly seen white rabbits and Elvis running around in the statistics.

What a load of lying nonsense.

Let's have a few facts.

Ukraine's asylum seekers are not funded by the EU, but by the individual states.

There are currently 1.1 million Ukrainian asylum seekers living in Germany.

There are no reliable statistics on the costs in Germany. This is due to the fact that funding is provided by the federal states and the german government from various sources. In addition, Ukrainians are not treated as asylum seekers, but as long-term unemployed Germans.

The cost of healthcare cannot be estimated as well because Ukrainians, like all Germans, are members of the statutory healthcare system. Billing for treatment is carried out by the associations of statutory health insurance physicians (Kassenärztliche Vereinigung) and does not differentiate between Ukrainians and Germans.

Brief summary for the learning disabled: There are currently no reliable figures for the costs in Germany.

But even if there were, here are more facts.

Of the 1.1 million Ukrainians, a quarter are under the age of 18. Of the rest, only around 30% work, mostly in mini-jobs from which no social security contributions or taxes are paid at all.

You have to be a pretty mathematical zero to assume that under these conditions there is a plus for Germany.

I'm a bit sorry that I'm slowly losing my net etiquette, but your constant insults, gutter language and spreading of lies are increasingly getting on my nerves.

I agree with your statement 100%.
If required, I can provide more figures on the nonsense that stocker2014 is spreading here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 13, 2024, 14:12
In general, I would like to say that this permanent statement that Russia as a country and the Russians as a people must be destroyed is an absolute absurdity.
Then Germany should also have been completely wiped out under H*.
What the Russians are doing today and what the Germans did back then is a catastrophe and cannot be excused by anything.

Nevertheless, I am very grateful that I am allowed to live today and that my ancestors were not completely wiped out.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 13, 2024, 14:28
He simply doesn't care. The only thing he is interested is is America first.

The only thing that nasty piece of garbage cares about is himself first.  He would destroy Ukraine, the U.S. or even his own family if he thought it would help his own self.  I don't know what exactly Putin has over him but Orange Jesus is acting as a Russian asset to further Putin's goals in the world.  The sooner that nasty scumbag is in jail the better and safer the world will be for all of us.  Hopefully he and Putin will both get what they deserve.
I don't agree. Biden needs to be put in prison, and not only in prison, but also in the electric chair. The US Democratic Party needs to be banned.

Right, right, right... the Dems who just voted today with a massive 46 -2 majority in favor of Ukraine should be banned, while the republicans, with their 26-22 anti-Ukraine majority should be embraced!

stocker is living in a parallel universe where Ukraine's best interests, putin's dreams, and trump's stupidity are in sync!

 ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on February 13, 2024, 21:49
He simply doesn't care. The only thing he is interested is is America first.

The only thing that nasty piece of garbage cares about is himself first.  He would destroy Ukraine, the U.S. or even his own family if he thought it would help his own self.  I don't know what exactly Putin has over him but Orange Jesus is acting as a Russian asset to further Putin's goals in the world.  The sooner that nasty scumbag is in jail the better and safer the world will be for all of us.  Hopefully he and Putin will both get what they deserve.
I don't agree. Biden needs to be put in prison, and not only in prison, but also in the electric chair. The US Democratic Party needs to be banned.

What on Earth could you possibly put Biden in prison for?  The Republicans have been trying to impeach him for months, but despite wasting huge amounts of taxpayer money haven't come up with a single shred of evidence for any wrongdoing.  The electric chair?  Stop being ridiculous.  If Biden had not been in the White House these past few years Putin would have been in Kyiv long ago.  If Orange Jesus gets back in the White House Ukraine will become a vassal state of Russia very quickly.  That is why Putin supports Trump so strongly and why he opposes the Democrats - he knows they are the ones standing in the way of his destroying Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on February 13, 2024, 21:55
In the Ukrainian press I read about stories where in EU countries their children are taken from mothers and given to other families.

I don't know about the Ukrainian press but that sounds like Russian propaganda to me.  The Russians have stolen Ukrainian children and given them away to families in Russia - this is well documented.  I have never heard of anything like that in the EU and doubt that is true.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 04:35
Refugees also work and pay taxes. I saw the statistics, the amount of these taxes is no less than the aid that the EU pays to refugees.

Is Russia Today the source of these statistics?
No. I was talking about Poland. The source of statistics is Ukrainian media. I am sure that the situation is similar in other EU countries. Apart from Germany, the situation there is different. I will answer in my other posts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 04:39
We're spending billions on Ukraine! And you insult us without ceasing! We hardly have any ammunition left because it's all going to Ukraine. We're spending a lot of money on Ukrainian refugees. Our population is starting to rebel because the money is missing everywhere.

Refugees also work and pay taxes. I saw the statistics, the amount of these taxes is no less than the aid that the EU pays to refugees.
And I didn’t personally call you a parasite.  ;D I'm talking about your politicians and big business.


Nonsense!

I have no idea where you get this information from, but it's total nonsense.
The EU consists of more than just one country called Germany. Don't judge EU countries based on Germany alone.
In Germany, 80% of refugees work illegally and therefore do not pay taxes. To legally work in Germany, you need good knowledge of the German language, an exam, and obtaining a license (which takes more than one year). In other countries everything is much simpler. In Poland, a Ukrainian can quickly register as a private entrepreneur, work legally and pay taxes.
In any case, your German money that you give to refugees remains in your country's economy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 04:40
I am against the fact that Ukrainians left as refugees for other countries. It is not necessary. There are a lot of safe places and territories in Ukraine.
Some people go not because they are afraid of war, but because the EU offers them cash benefits and housing. People want to improve their financial situation, take their children to the EU, and give them a better education there. Some want to marry a foreigner and obtain citizenship.
In the Ukrainian press I read about stories where in EU countries their children are taken from mothers and given to other families. In this way, EU countries are trying to solve their demographic problems and problems with fertility.
Therefore, if you are Germans, you think that I will thank you for accepting refugees, you are mistaken. I won't thank you for that.

When I read statements like that, I wonder what kind of conspiracy bubble you're in right now!
Return Ukrainians to Ukraine! How are you better than the Russians? You solve your demographic problems at the expense of Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 04:41
I'm a bit sorry that I'm slowly losing my net etiquette,
Therefore, I will not comment on what you write. There is also an ignore button.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 04:51
In general, I would like to say that this permanent statement that Russia as a country and the Russians as a people must be destroyed is an absolute absurdity.
Then Germany should also have been completely wiped out under H*.
What the Russians are doing today and what the Germans did back then is a catastrophe and cannot be excused by anything.

Nevertheless, I am very grateful that I am allowed to live today and that my ancestors were not completely wiped out.
1. I never wrote that all Russians should be eliminated.
2. Not all Germans were Na.zis. Yes, they write that Hitler had enormous support among the Germans. These are already questions of psychiatry. But I see the difference between the Germans and the Russian orcs.
3. You can write here why the Germans supported Na.z.ism so much and what percentage of Germans supported it.
4. Russia is not Germany. Russia is an empire within which peoples of other nationalities are subjected to genocide. Therefore, the Russian federation must be liquidated as a state. Russians by nationality are genetic slaves, orcs and zombies, they should be surrounded by an iron wall and be under the military control of democratic countries. Until they are reborn into people.
5. Yes, I see that you Germans sympathize with the Russians and are friends with them. For some reason you see that there is something in common between you. This will lead to the fact that Russian tanks will soon be driving around Berlin.
6. The USSR was no better than Na.zi Germany. And while Germany was able to change quickly, russia did not change.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 05:00
He simply doesn't care. The only thing he is interested is is America first.

The only thing that nasty piece of garbage cares about is himself first.  He would destroy Ukraine, the U.S. or even his own family if he thought it would help his own self.  I don't know what exactly Putin has over him but Orange Jesus is acting as a Russian asset to further Putin's goals in the world.  The sooner that nasty scumbag is in jail the better and safer the world will be for all of us.  Hopefully he and Putin will both get what they deserve.
I don't agree. Biden needs to be put in prison, and not only in prison, but also in the electric chair. The US Democratic Party needs to be banned.

Right, right, right... the Dems who just voted today with a massive 46 -2 majority in favor of Ukraine should be banned, while the republicans, with their 26-22 anti-Ukraine majority should be embraced!

stocker is living in a parallel universe where Ukraine's best interests, putin's dreams, and trump's stupidity are in sync!

 ::)
This is all propaganda from the Democrats.
I write every week that military aid from the Democrats is a handout and a minuscule. This help does not solve anything at the front. There are no aviation, no medium- and long-range missiles, no tanks.
Republicans are doing everything right. Now the main thing is to reduce Biden’s rating and prevent him from winning the election.
I recommend everyone to listen to the Ukrainian radio broadcast. I recommend listening to the entire show.
https://youtu.be/JXgqphJZiQc (https://youtu.be/JXgqphJZiQc)
It says Democrats are ass.holes. From the 11th minute, the representative of Ukraine in the United States says that the Democrats initially did everything so that assistance would not be provided to Ukraine. Democrats delayed voting on aid to Ukraine in October 2023. They did this in order to blame the Republicans. The video has the option to include translation of subtitles into English.
There is also an opinion, and I agree with it, that Biden is doing everything so as not to create problems for putin and not prevent him from being elected in russia. In return, Biden expects putin's support in the US elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 05:06
In the Ukrainian press I read about stories where in EU countries their children are taken from mothers and given to other families.

I don't know about the Ukrainian press but that sounds like Russian propaganda to me.  The Russians have stolen Ukrainian children and given them away to families in Russia - this is well documented.  I have never heard of anything like that in the EU and doubt that is true.
This is also true, just like the truth about Russians. Not many Ukrainians can protect their rights in the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 05:08
He simply doesn't care. The only thing he is interested is is America first.

The only thing that nasty piece of garbage cares about is himself first.  He would destroy Ukraine, the U.S. or even his own family if he thought it would help his own self.  I don't know what exactly Putin has over him but Orange Jesus is acting as a Russian asset to further Putin's goals in the world.  The sooner that nasty scumbag is in jail the better and safer the world will be for all of us.  Hopefully he and Putin will both get what they deserve.
I don't agree. Biden needs to be put in prison, and not only in prison, but also in the electric chair. The US Democratic Party needs to be banned.

What on Earth could you possibly put Biden in prison for?  The Republicans have been trying to impeach him for months, but despite wasting huge amounts of taxpayer money haven't come up with a single shred of evidence for any wrongdoing.  The electric chair?  Stop being ridiculous.  If Biden had not been in the White House these past few years Putin would have been in Kyiv long ago.  If Orange Jesus gets back in the White House Ukraine will become a vassal state of Russia very quickly.  That is why Putin supports Trump so strongly and why he opposes the Democrats - he knows they are the ones standing in the way of his destroying Ukraine.
You are influenced by propaganda and lies from the US Democratic Party. If you read this thread over the past two months, you will see that I have written on all of these issues.
If Trump were US President in 2022, putin would not even dare to launch an attack on Ukraine. But read everything I wrote earlier.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 05:16
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/14/7441794/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/14/7441794/)

 ;D ;D ;D

Intelligence officers demonstrate use of Magura drones in sinking of Cesar Kunikov – video

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/3/7/37543c5-cesar--gur-kolazh_690x387.avif)

The large Russian landing ship Caesar Kunikov was sunk with the help of Magura V5 maritime drones, the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine reported.

Source: Ukraine’s Defence Intelligence

Quote: "On 14 February, the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine, in cooperation with all components of the Security and Defence Forces of Ukraine, destroyed the large landing ship Caesar Kunikov of the Black Sea Fleet of the aggressor state of Russia. The successful mission was carried out by the special forces of Group 13 of the Defence Intelligence of Ukraine".

Details: The special operation was reportedly made possible with the support of the United24 platform.

The Russian ship was attacked by Magura V5 maritime attack drones. It happened in the Black Sea near the city of Alupka in temporarily occupied Crimea.

https://youtu.be/QmQCQXfN_SU (https://youtu.be/QmQCQXfN_SU)

"As a result, large holes were blown in the port side and the Caesar Kunikov began to sink. It is symbolic that the Russian officer after whom the ship was named was killed exactly 81 years ago [on February 14]. The occupiers' search and rescue operation was unsuccessful. Glory to Ukraine!" the intelligence emphasised.

Details: The Defence Intelligence notes that the large landing ship Caesar Kunikov of Project 775 is one of Russia's newest vessels.

This ship could accommodate 87 crew members on board. It has seen combat in the wars in Georgia, Syria and Ukraine.


Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 14, 2024, 08:21
Military spending as a percentage of GDP in Europe.

Fear of invasion created a "military spending belt" bordering russia and its zone of influence/occupation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 14, 2024, 13:46
Germany spends little money.  >:( >:( >:(
Germany will have big problems when Trump becomes president.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 14, 2024, 14:26
Germany will have big problems when Trump becomes president.

Forget about Germany.
Ukraine will likely suffer the most significant adverse consequences should such a global catastrophe occur.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 14, 2024, 15:43
Germany spends little money.  >:( >:( >:(


The trick lies in the detail and the perspective. You really should learn to read graphics.

The graph refers to military spending as a percentage of GDP and is from 2023. We have 2024, of course you can forget that in all the stress.

In the absolute figures for defense spending, Germany is behind the USA and UK with over 60 billion (more likely 70 current).

The figures are also no longer up to date.  Germany currently has a share of expenditure of 2.1% of the GDP.

Zero, on the other hand, has drawn the right conclusions from the graph: The countries bordering Russia are arming themselves mightily.
You, on the other hand, are once again fantasizing your own ideas contrary to the facts.

So your hollow phrase that Germany spends very little money is once again wrong and reflects your analytical skills in all your contributions.

Just say one time thank you for always learning something new here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 14, 2024, 23:38
The map I shared proves how stupid trump and his maga team of "advisors" are.
A bunch of Homer Simpsons.

He stated that in the case of a russian invasion, he will not aid the countries with less than 2% of GDP military spending and will even encourage russia to do "whatever the h.e.l.l. they want."

But look at the map. All countries bordering russia, Belarus, and a potentially sacrificed and occupied Ukraine already spend more than 2% of their GDP on the military. They form a protective barrier against potential russian invasions.

There is no way for Russia to invade, let's say, Germany without first invading one of the countries in the 2% spending shield.

Therefore, even based on his foolish announcement, trump-the-moron, must defend them and fight his buddy putin.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 05:26
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/us/politics/trump-ukraine-biden.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/us/politics/trump-ukraine-biden.html)

Trump Says Biden Will Give Ukraine to Putin.

Speaking at a campaign event in North Charleston, S.C., Mr. Trump said that, under a Biden presidency, Mr. Putin is going to be given everything he wants, including Ukraine. That’s a gift. He’s got a gift.
Mr. Biden is going to give Ukraine to Mr. Putin.

NATO has a goal that its member countries spend 2 percent of their gross domestic product on their militaries. As of last year, just 11 of 31 NATO members had reached that level. Mr. Trump on Wednesday said he thought the goal should be doubled to 4 percent.

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 05:41
Today, the Russian Hitler of the 21st century, putin, said that he wants Biden to be President of the United States.
Open statements mean open support.
Of course putin is the KGB, of course I don’t perceive his words in any way. But I know that here on the forum there are many who like to listen to what putin says and believe what he says.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 05:43
Germany spends little money.  >:( >:( >:(


Germany currently has a share of expenditure of 2.1% of the GDP.
By the end of 2024, it will be clear how much Germany will pay. For now these are just plans.
But I see that the Germans are already very scared of Trump coming to power.  ;D ;D ;D Without Trump, the Germans would not have even started paying more.
Well done Trump! Squash the parasites!

Yes, Trump is a real strong leader. German parasites are afraid of Trump even when he is not yet president of the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 05:46
Therefore, even based on his foolish announcement, trump-the-moron, must defend them and fight his buddy putin.
Is not a fact. If Germany will not pay enough money for defense, why should the United States send troops into German territory and defend not only, for example, Poland, but also Germany at the same time? Trump will shift responsibility for the occupation of Poland to Germany.
But this is all nonsense, of course, Trump’s goal is to force Russian friends such as Germany, Hungary, and Austria to pay enough money.
Thus, the German parasites parasitized not only on the USA, but also on other EU countries, which are forced to pay 2% of their GDP for defense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 05:51
Avdiivka is hell: 3rd Separate Assault Brigade reports critical situation in Avdiivka.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/0/e/0e60c7a-opera--------2024-02-15-100420-www_690x387.rbc_690x387.ua_690x387.avif)

The Third Separate Assault Brigade reported that two Russian brigades were critically damaged on the Avdiivka front, but the situation in Avdiivka remains precarious, with Russians moving new forces to the city.

Source: 3rd separate assault brigade

Quote: "Avdiivka is hell. The Third Separate Assault Brigade confirms that it has been urgently redeployed to reinforce Ukrainian troops in the area of Avdiivka.

The situation in the city at the time of the brigade's deployment was extremely critical.

Separate battalions of the 3rd Brigade conducted a raid into enemy-held areas of Avdiivka. The enemy's forces in our area number approximately 7 brigades.

...Two brigades of the Russian Armed Forces were critically damaged during the period of their presence on the Avdiivka front. The exact losses of the enemy in personnel and equipment will be announced later, after the necessary data is confirmed.

At the same time, the objective situation in Avdiivka remains precarious and unstable. The enemy continues to actively rotate its troops and deploy new forces and equipment to the city."

Details: The commander of the 3rd Brigade, Andrii Biletskyi, stressed that the soldiers are demonstrating unprecedented heroism: "We are forced to fight 360 degrees against new brigades that the enemy is deploying."

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/15/7441948/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/15/7441948/)

 >:( >:( >:(
_______
Biden is a fucker! Where is the aviation? Where are the missiles? Where are the tanks? Put Biden in the electric chair.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 06:35
Ukraine spends 20-30 percent of its GDP on war. This is exactly what the EU countries should spend, not less, but preferably more. Ukraine defends the EU from Russian occupation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on February 15, 2024, 07:03
Therefore, even based on his foolish announcement, trump-the-moron, must defend them and fight his buddy putin.
Is not a fact. If Germany will not pay enough money for defense, why should the United States send troops into German territory and defend not only, for example, Poland, but also Germany at the same time? Trump will shift responsibility for the occupation of Poland to Germany.

If Russia wants to invade Germany, they have to invade Poland first. They do not have the capabilities to land a significant number of troups with heavy arms like tanks at the German coast of the Baltic Sea, let alone supply them.

Then, by defending Poland against a Russian invasion, the USA would automatically also defend Germany.

Also, the US cannot really effectively defend Poland (or the Baltic states) against a Russian invasion without using German infrastructure and US owned infrastructure in Germany.

The Ramstein Air Base is the headquarters of the US Air Force in Europe. Without it, the US air strike and defence capabilities in Europe would be seriously crippled. It would also be very hard to supply US troops in Europe without using German ports (or Dutch or Belgian ports, but then the supplies would have to be transported further east via German road or railway infrastructure).

But this is all nonsense, of course, Trump’s goal is to force Russian friends such as Germany, Hungary, and Austria to pay enough money.
Thus, the German parasites parasitized not only on the USA, but also on other EU countries, which are forced to pay 2% of their GDP for defense.

Of the countries you listed, only Hungary is relatively friendly towards Russia. Germany was in the past interested in keeping relatively good relations to Russia, partly because our politicians believed that the best insurance against war is to have good trade relations, partly because we relied (probably too much) on Russian gas for our energy supply. But of course, the Russian invasion of the Ukraine changed all that.

And Austria is not part of the NATO and therefore not under any obligation to pay anything.

I do agree though, that Germany should spend at least the agreed upon 2% of the GDP on defence and it looks like this year we will achieve this goal, as has already been stated in this thread. This has nothing to do with Trump, but rather with Putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 07:15
You, on the other hand, are once again fantasizing your own ideas contrary to the facts.
The facts are clear. Germany in 2023 was parasitizing at the expense of other EU countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 07:20
Of the countries you listed, only Hungary is relatively friendly towards Russia. Germany was in the past interested in keeping relatively good relations to Russia, partly because our politicians believed that the best insurance against war is to have good trade relations, partly because we relied (probably too much) on Russian gas for our energy supply. But of course, the Russian invasion of the Ukraine changed all that.

And Austria is not part of the NATO and therefore not under any obligation to pay anything.

I do agree though, that Germany should spend at least the agreed upon 2% of the GDP on defence and it looks like this year we will achieve this goal, as has already been stated in this thread. This has nothing to do with Trump, but rather with Putin.
It has already been pointed out in this topic that Germany continues to pay money to the Russians for gas. Germany also trades with Russians through third countries and supplies many goods, incl. military purposes.
I also don’t agree, it’s only thanks to Trump that Germany is increasing its spending.

As for the defense of the EU, of course the US needs Germany's infrastructure for this. But, as I already wrote, if Germany does not pay money, the United States may refuse to protect both Germany and Poland and the Baltic countries. It's logical.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 15, 2024, 07:59
You, on the other hand, are once again fantasizing your own ideas contrary to the facts.
The facts are clear. Germany in 2023 was parasitizing at the expense of other EU countries.

Your choice of words alone shows your simple mind and lack of overview.

Once again for those with learning difficulties: Germany was and is the third largest donor to NATO.

You are obviously not very familiar with the concept of parasitism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 15, 2024, 08:09
Therefore, even based on his foolish announcement, trump-the-moron, must defend them and fight his buddy putin.
Is not a fact. If Germany will not pay enough money for defense, why should the United States send troops into German territory and defend not only, for example, Poland, but also Germany at the same time? Trump will shift responsibility for the occupation of Poland to Germany.
But this is all nonsense, of course, Trump’s goal is to force Russian friends such as Germany, Hungary, and Austria to pay enough money.
Thus, the German parasites parasitized not only on the USA, but also on other EU countries, which are forced to pay 2% of their GDP for defense.

You missed the point, Homer, same as the orange moron.

russia can never invade Germany, without invading Poland first.
US must defend Poland and fight russia, even if Germany doesn't spend a dime on military.

Basic geography seems too hard for you two.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 15, 2024, 08:13
You, on the other hand, are once again fantasizing your own ideas contrary to the facts.
The facts are clear. Germany in 2023 was parasitizing at the expense of other EU countries.


You are obviously not very familiar with the concept of parasitism.


He is! While lots of other Ukrainians are figthting for their country he is sitting at home - safe and warm - and insulting other people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 08:53
You, on the other hand, are once again fantasizing your own ideas contrary to the facts.
The facts are clear. Germany in 2023 was parasitizing at the expense of other EU countries.
Your choice of words alone shows your simple mind and lack of overview.
Once again for those with learning difficulties: Germany was and is the third largest donor to NATO.
You are obviously not very familiar with the concept of parasitism.

I am very familiar with economics and know what it is. There is no need to hide behind absolute numbers when other countries pay a higher percentage of their GDP than you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 08:57
Therefore, even based on his foolish announcement, trump-the-moron, must defend them and fight his buddy putin.
Is not a fact. If Germany will not pay enough money for defense, why should the United States send troops into German territory and defend not only, for example, Poland, but also Germany at the same time? Trump will shift responsibility for the occupation of Poland to Germany.
But this is all nonsense, of course, Trump’s goal is to force Russian friends such as Germany, Hungary, and Austria to pay enough money.
Thus, the German parasites parasitized not only on the USA, but also on other EU countries, which are forced to pay 2% of their GDP for defense.
You missed the point, Homer, same as the orange moron.
russia can never invade Germany, without invading Poland first.
US must defend Poland and fight russia, even if Germany doesn't spend a dime on military.
Basic geography seems too hard for you two.
You write some obvious things.  ;D
The security of the EU's eastern flank is largely Germany's responsibility. If Germany does not pay, then the NATO fund will not be large enough, and the US will have to spend a lot of its money to protect Germany as well. Germany won't be able to play games with Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 08:59
You, on the other hand, are once again fantasizing your own ideas contrary to the facts.
The facts are clear. Germany in 2023 was parasitizing at the expense of other EU countries.


You are obviously not very familiar with the concept of parasitism.


He is! While lots of other Ukrainians are figthting for their country he is sitting at home - safe and warm - and insulting other people.
These many other Ukrainians defend the EU and Germany, while Germany buys Russian gas and trades with the Russians through third countries. Germany also pays little to the NATO fund and Germany really likes Ukrainian refugees who solve the Germans’ demographic problems.

So why are you Germans better than Russians?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 09:09
even if Germany doesn't spend a dime on military.
+100
This is the policy of parasites.
Under KGB agent Merkel, this is exactly what Germany did. And only 2 years ago Germany began to slowly do something.
I support every word Trump says!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 15, 2024, 11:57
Therefore, even based on his foolish announcement, trump-the-moron, must defend them and fight his buddy putin.
Is not a fact. If Germany will not pay enough money for defense, why should the United States send troops into German territory and defend not only, for example, Poland, but also Germany at the same time? Trump will shift responsibility for the occupation of Poland to Germany.
But this is all nonsense, of course, Trump’s goal is to force Russian friends such as Germany, Hungary, and Austria to pay enough money.
Thus, the German parasites parasitized not only on the USA, but also on other EU countries, which are forced to pay 2% of their GDP for defense.
You missed the point, Homer, same as the orange moron.
russia can never invade Germany, without invading Poland first.
US must defend Poland and fight russia, even if Germany doesn't spend a dime on military.
Basic geography seems too hard for you two.
You write some obvious things.  ;D
The security of the EU's eastern flank is largely Germany's responsibility. If Germany does not pay, then the NATO fund will not be large enough, and the US will have to spend a lot of its money to protect Germany as well. Germany won't be able to play games with Trump.

The only obvious thing is that trump is a moron who wants to steal the horses from a German bicycle.

His threat to leave russia to do "whatever the h.e.l.l. they want" with Germany is an empty threat that only means something to you and his brainwashed cult followers who have a distant relationship with basic logic.

Moreover, the only reason he suddenly switched 180 degrees and said the nonsense about Biden selling Ukraine to putin is because putin said Biden is better, bruising his yuuuge orange ego. Because his yuuuuge orange ego is all that matters to him
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 14:26
The only obvious thing is that trump is a moron who wants to steal the horses from a German bicycle.

His threat to leave russia to do "whatever the h.e.l.l. they want" with Germany is an empty threat that only means something to you and his brainwashed cult followers who have a distant relationship with basic logic.

Moreover, the only reason he suddenly switched 180 degrees and said the nonsense about Biden selling Ukraine to putin is because putin said Biden is better, bruising his yuuuge orange ego. Because his yuuuuge orange ego is all that matters to him
Your logic on this topic has always been based on the statements of Trump, putin, Biden. You have always written that Putin will support Trump. Now there are holes in your logic. Today putin began to support Biden. For me this is logical, Biden did a lot to support the Russian Na.zis.
As for Trump’s statements, as our German colleagues write, this year Germany “unexpectedly” decided to increase its defense spending. Just after Trump directly told Germany what awaits her.
Trump, even without being president, is much more effective than Biden.

Zero Talent, you democrat fans have big problems now. Your main argument against Trump was based on the assumption that putin and the Russians support him. Now you no longer have this argument.  ;D ;D ;D
putin has publicly stated that he supports Biden.  :'( :'( :'(

I can only commiserate you and recommend that you turn on logic and analytics, and not be based on what the Russians say or do.  ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 15, 2024, 14:37
The only obvious thing is that trump is a moron who wants to steal the horses from a German bicycle.

His threat to leave russia to do "whatever the h.e.l.l. they want" with Germany is an empty threat that only means something to you and his brainwashed cult followers who have a distant relationship with basic logic.

Moreover, the only reason he suddenly switched 180 degrees and said the nonsense about Biden selling Ukraine to putin is because putin said Biden is better, bruising his yuuuge orange ego. Because his yuuuuge orange ego is all that matters to him
Your logic on this topic has always been based on the statements of Trump, putin, Biden. You have always written that Putin will support Trump. Now there are holes in your logic. Today putin began to support Biden. For me this is logical, Biden did a lot to support the Russian Na.zis.
As for Trump’s statements, as our German colleagues write, this year Germany “unexpectedly” decided to increase its defense spending. Just after Trump directly told Germany what awaits her.
Trump, even without being president, is much more effective than Biden.

Zero Talent, you democrat fans have big problems now. Your main argument against Trump was based on the assumption that putin and the Russians support him. Now you no longer have this argument.  ;D ;D ;D
putin has publicly stated that he supports Biden.  :'( :'( :'(

I can only commiserate you and recommend that you turn on logic and analytics, and not be based on what the Russians say or do.  ;)

It's new to me that Putin says what he really thinks about anything. He had also said that he would not attack Ukraine. So when he says he favors Biden, he means the opposite. I'm surprised you can't see through that!

Incidentally, Putin has never spoken positively about Trump. He merely influenced the US election in Trump's favor in the background together with his trolls.

With this current statement in favor of Biden, he is doing it again. Outwardly he says that, in the background he does the opposite. But everyone knows that anyway. Except you. The problem with logic is with you, not with ZT.

If I remember correctly, you were also always of the opinion that Putin is lying when he says something. Has anything changed?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 15, 2024, 14:42
Oh Wilm, how you started singing :), you changed your shoes on the fly!  ;D ;D ;D
You all wrote in this thread that putin only supports Trump!

Okay, I won't troll you. I think there are three different options.
1. Trump is putin’s friend and therefore Putin is knocking out the argument from the Democrats that he supports him.
2. putin really supports Biden because Biden is pursuing very weak and bad policies.
3. putin interferes in US elections for the purpose of sabotage.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 15, 2024, 15:18

You all wrote in this thread that putin only supports Trump!


 ::) Yes, Putin only supports Trump. I didn't write anything else.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 15, 2024, 15:56
The only obvious thing is that trump is a moron who wants to steal the horses from a German bicycle.

His threat to leave russia to do "whatever the h.e.l.l. they want" with Germany is an empty threat that only means something to you and his brainwashed cult followers who have a distant relationship with basic logic.

Moreover, the only reason he suddenly switched 180 degrees and said the nonsense about Biden selling Ukraine to putin is because putin said Biden is better, bruising his yuuuge orange ego. Because his yuuuuge orange ego is all that matters to him
Your logic on this topic has always been based on the statements of Trump, putin, Biden. You have always written that Putin will support Trump. Now there are holes in your logic. Today putin began to support Biden. For me this is logical, Biden did a lot to support the Russian Na.zis.
As for Trump’s statements, as our German colleagues write, this year Germany “unexpectedly” decided to increase its defense spending. Just after Trump directly told Germany what awaits her.
Trump, even without being president, is much more effective than Biden.

Zero Talent, you democrat fans have big problems now. Your main argument against Trump was based on the assumption that putin and the Russians support him. Now you no longer have this argument.  ;D ;D ;D
putin has publicly stated that he supports Biden.  :'( :'( :'(

I can only commiserate you and recommend that you turn on logic and analytics, and not be based on what the Russians say or do.  ;)

What you fail to realize is that your idol (the orange moron) made that 180-degree U-turn only because he is dumb enough to believe that putin said the truth when he declared that he likes Biden more than him.

For Biden and the rest of the world this means nothing, while for the orange moron, his whole world collapsed when putin offended his ego.

This only proves trump's narcissism and his ridiculously immature behavior.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on February 15, 2024, 17:22
As for Trump’s statements, as our German colleagues write, this year Germany “unexpectedly” decided to increase its defense spending.

There is nothing unexpected about this. It is the direct result of additional funds of 100 Billion Euros provided to spend on the Bundeswehr, the German armed forces, over several years to bring it up to scratch. It is a so called "Sondervermögen", which allows to circumvent the strict German anti-debt laws.

It was announced on February 27 2022, shortly after the Russian invasion into the Ukraine, in a famous speech by Chancelor Olaf Scholz (the Zeitenwende Speech) and formally decided on in June 2022.

It just took some time for the military bureaucracy to actually start spending the money.

Just after Trump directly told Germany what awaits her.

There is no way this could possibly have had any effect whatsoever on military spending so quickly.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitenwende-Rede
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderverm%C3%B6gen_(Bundeswehr)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 16, 2024, 02:50
… Avdiivka is definitely falling and after that Slavyansk and Kramatorsk can expect very hot spring…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 08:04
As for Trump’s statements, as our German colleagues write, this year Germany “unexpectedly” decided to increase its defense spending.

There is nothing unexpected about this. It is the direct result of additional funds of 100 Billion Euros provided to spend on the Bundeswehr, the German armed forces, over several years to bring it up to scratch. It is a so called "Sondervermögen", which allows to circumvent the strict German anti-debt laws.

It was announced on February 27 2022, shortly after the Russian invasion into the Ukraine, in a famous speech by Chancelor Olaf Scholz (the Zeitenwende Speech) and formally decided on in June 2022.

It just took some time for the military bureaucracy to actually start spending the money.

Just after Trump directly told Germany what awaits her.

There is no way this could possibly have had any effect whatsoever on military spending so quickly.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitenwende-Rede
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderverm%C3%B6gen_(Bundeswehr)
;D ;D ;D
Nice attempt at saving face on your part. I think you will come up with many fantastic stories. But it’s your right, compose.
As for your Scholz, his words are worthless. He sang beautiful songs 2 years ago, but did nothing. All democrat supporters sing false songs. But only exactly 2 years later, Germany finally decided to increase spending, because it knows Trump can win.
If you are right (which is naturally not the case) and your bureaucracy has been reacting to Scholz’s words for 2 years. I can give you 100%, Russian orcs will occupy Germany in a few days.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on February 16, 2024, 08:35
But only exactly 2 years later, Germany finally decided to increase spending, because it knows Trump can win.

It was decided to do so in June 2022. Read the articles I linked to. Your browser should be able to translate it to English or another language you might fancy.

If you are right (which is naturally not the case) and your bureaucracy has been reacting to Scholz’s words for 2 years.

Perhaps it is different in your country, but the German bureaucracy does not react to a chancelors words, but only to changes in the law. And the Sondervermögen was formally decided upon in June 2022. It even required an addition to our constitution,; considering that, this was really quick.

And then it is totally normal that it takes some time to spend the money, because there are laws how this has to be done, in order to ensure that you end up with the stuff you really need, at reasonable prices and without corruption.

More than 8 Billion Euro from the Sondervermögen has already been spent in 2023. That already lead to an increase in the military spending compared to the GDP; just not enough to crack the 2% threshold. This will happen this year.

I can give you 100%, Russian orcs will occupy Germany in a few days.

This seems quite unlikely, considering that orcs only exist in fantasy strories, not the real world.

As for the real world Russian army: It has shown in the Ukraine that it's ability to conduct quick maneuver warfare is rather limited, so I do not think they will show up near Berlin any time soon.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 16, 2024, 08:38
… why are shopping malls in Belgorod,  full of people now legitimate targets for Ukrainian army…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 16, 2024, 08:41
As for Trump’s statements, as our German colleagues write, this year Germany “unexpectedly” decided to increase its defense spending.

There is nothing unexpected about this. It is the direct result of additional funds of 100 Billion Euros provided to spend on the Bundeswehr, the German armed forces, over several years to bring it up to scratch. It is a so called "Sondervermögen", which allows to circumvent the strict German anti-debt laws.

It was announced on February 27 2022, shortly after the Russian invasion into the Ukraine, in a famous speech by Chancelor Olaf Scholz (the Zeitenwende Speech) and formally decided on in June 2022.

It just took some time for the military bureaucracy to actually start spending the money.

Just after Trump directly told Germany what awaits her.

There is no way this could possibly have had any effect whatsoever on military spending so quickly.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitenwende-Rede
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderverm%C3%B6gen_(Bundeswehr)
;D ;D ;D
Nice attempt at saving face on your part. I think you will come up with many fantastic stories. But it’s your right, compose.
As for your Scholz, his words are worthless. He sang beautiful songs 2 years ago, but did nothing. All democrat supporters sing false songs. But only exactly 2 years later, Germany finally decided to increase spending, because it knows Trump can win.
If you are right (which is naturally not the case) and your bureaucracy has been reacting to Scholz’s words for 2 years. I can give you 100%, Russian orcs will occupy Germany in a few days.

Everything you write here about German politics is, as always, fictitious and without facts.
The development was exactly as Big Toe described it.
You are simply wrong, as always when it comes to complex issues.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 08:47
… Avdiivka is definitely falling and after that Slavyansk and Kramatorsk can expect very hot spring…
Stop panicking!

Yes, we all know that the US Democrats are crap and Biden is a friend of russia and putin. Ukraine has very few weapons. But the Ukrainians do not plan to give up.
Very cool Ukrainian fighters (nationalists, patriots) have been transferred to Avdiivka. Now they are having fun and mass killing Russian orcs. The forces are not equal, the Russians want to occupy Avdiivka to raise their putin’s rating before the elections. Biden also wants to support putin. But Ukrainians have a different opinion.
In any case, the task of the Ukrainian Armed Forces is not to hold a city or line of defense at any cost, but to kill the maximum number of Russians. The more Russians are killed, the faster Ukraine will be deoccupied and the Russian federation will be liquidated.
While the liquidation of Russians in Avdiivka is going well, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not leave there.
Of course there are many problems. There are no F16 that could shoot down Russian planes that are dropping bombs on the city. The Russians also use phosphorus bombs, which are prohibited by international law. But deceitful democratic countries do not want to see this and do not impose normal sanctions against Russians.
Now we need to admire the heroism of Ukrainians and follow the statistics of killed Russians.
The US Democrats and Biden supplied very few weapons to Ukraine, so the Russians were able to semi-circle Avdiivka from the flanks. Biden is 100% to blame.

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 08:48
Everything you write here about German politics is, as always, fictitious and without facts.
The development was exactly as Big Toe described it.
You are simply wrong, as always when it comes to complex issues.
:'( :'( :'(
 ;D
Ok. The main thing is that Germany does what Trump wants.  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 08:52
(https://www.ostro.org/upload/media/2024/02/16/vtraty-16.jpg)

The total combat losses of the Russians exceeded 400,000, over 1,200 occupiers were eliminated in a day - General Staff

 8) 8) 8)

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 08:53
Explaining complex things in simple words: Situation in Avdiivka, global security agenda, U.S. assistance

The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine.
SITUATION IN AVDIIVKA

The situation in Avdiivka is complicated, but controlled. Fierce battles are taking place within the city limits. Ukrainian troops use all available forces and means to deter the enemy.
There is a planned reinforcement of units, an additional resource of ammunition and other weapons is allocated.
Troops are manoeuvred in the most dangerous areas. Field commanders know their task and perform it in accordance with the plan of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
New positions have been prepared and work continues on the construction of fortifications, taking into account all possible scenarios. We value every piece of Ukrainian land, while our highest value and priority is the preservation of the lives of Ukrainian defenders.
The defence of Avdiivka has been going on since 2014; over the past seven months, the city has been repelling constant enemy assaults. Huge losses of Russian troops near Avdiivka deplete the potential of the aggressor.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3827939-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-situation-in-avdiivka-global-security-agenda-us-assistance.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3827939-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-situation-in-avdiivka-global-security-agenda-us-assistance.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 08:56
Russian jailers reported death of Russian opposition leader Navalny

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/16/7442172/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/16/7442172/)

President Vladimir Zelensky, in response to the news of the death of oppositionist Alexei Navalny in a Russian colony, said that he was killed by Russian dictator putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 09:07
I watch news on US TV channels. Words like Ukraine and Israel are not spoken. There is no news about Ukraine.. US Democrats are pursuing a policy of isolationism. Democrats are cowards and criminals. A US citizen has the opinion that nothing bad is happening in the world, and that the bas.tard Biden has solved all the issues. The fact that every day the Russians bomb Ukraine with bombs, missiles and destroy cities is no longer covered on US TV channels. This is how an artificial picture of a successful Democrat and a bas.tard Biden is created before the election.
US journalists are political prostitutes who only cover events that the Democrats allow them to cover.
If the Democrats win the elections, the United States will very soon turn into an island that will not have allies anywhere in the world. I am 100% sure that when the Russians begin to occupy EU countries, the US army under President Biden will cowardly flee from Europe. Just like she cowardly fled from Afghanistan. Afghanistan was a rehearsal.
Yes, some people will say that there are newspapers, but the majority of people do not read newspapers, but only watch TV.

There is such a newspaper as the New York Times. This newspaper often publishes Russian propaganda and disinformation. This newspaper is now supporting Biden. This means that putin really only wants to support Biden.
Yes, Democratic supporters will support Biden even when it becomes clear to everyone that putin also supports him. Even now the Democrats are lying and not admitting the obvious.
Look at this ass.hole Biden, how old he is, how he walks, how he talks. He can no longer even physiologically rule the country. He is 81 years old and looks very bad. Who nominates such old people for president?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 16, 2024, 09:57
(https://www.ostro.org/upload/media/2024/02/16/vtraty-16.jpg)

The total combat losses of the Russians exceeded 400,000, over 1,200 occupiers were eliminated in a day - General Staff

 8) 8) 8)

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of Russian Federation!
Do you really beleive in this numbers…?! Can you please at least show proofs of 100000 corpses…?! People im shopping malls can’t be count as soldieres…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 11:10
Do you really beleive in this numbers…?! Can you please at least show proofs of 100000 corpses…?! People im shopping malls can’t be count as soldieres…
Only Russian trolls write such questions. You can continue to believe Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 16, 2024, 11:52
So  half a million Russians have been killed or out of their army potential…?! Do you understand how many people is that…?! If that’s true, you can at least multiply that number with 3 for Ukrainian casulties….is it worth…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 13:20
So  half a million Russians have been killed or out of their army potential…?! Do you understand how many people is that…?! If that’s true, you can at least multiply that number with 3 for Ukrainian casulties….is it worth…?!
1. The losses of the attacking army are 5 times greater than the losses of the defending army. Ukraine is mostly on the defensive.
2. Russian orcs are mostly alcoholics, drug addicts, and prisoners, which means the loss ratio is even greater.
3. The statistics are actually underestimated by 1.5 times (because they are official and do not take into account many things). I think the actual number of Russian losses is around 600 thousand people. But this is very little 600 thousand!
4. Yes, Ukrainian soldiers are also dying. Didn't you know there was a war going on? Look how many were killed in World War II, for example.
5. If Ukraine receives the necessary modern weapons, the liquidation of Russians will be in even greater numbers, and Ukraine’s losses will be 10 times less.

The Russians kill a lot of civilians in Ukraine, the losses of soldiers are not that great. The Russians are bombing cities and shooting people. Russians are beasts who killed millions of Ukrainians in the 20th century (Holodomor).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 16, 2024, 14:18

 If you really beleive in all of that, Zelenskiy should not be worried any more… only Trump need to win, whaen you stste that Biden is now in love with Putin… everything should settle down…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 16, 2024, 17:00
trucic, I don't need to believe or not believe. I operate with facts. I don’t write anything that people who are aware of the situation and understand military affairs don’t know.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 17, 2024, 01:57
… new commander of UA Oleksandr Syrskyi, ordered withdrawal from Avdiivka…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 02:59
… new commander of UA Oleksandr Syrskyi, ordered withdrawal from Avdiivka…
Yes, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have run out of weapons. There is nothing to kill Russians with, which means there is no point in holding that line of defense.
This is the result of the deceitful policy of the friends of the Russian: democrats in the USA and the EU. EU countries send weapons for export and do not send them to Ukraine.
If there are no weapons, the Ukrainians will retreat all the way to Berlin.
Oleksandr Syrskyi made the right decision; Ukraine will not defend the EU at the cost of the lives of Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 17, 2024, 03:20
… this is the way to save population and infrastructure… you are saying that Russians are using only drunkees and drug addicts… can you imagine what will happen if they activate real army in full potential…?! In any way, road to Kramatorsk and Slavyansk are opened… fierce battles for those cities will begin soon… and new destructions and killing of people, sadly…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 03:34
… new commander of UA Oleksandr Syrskyi, ordered withdrawal from Avdiivka…

The false “democratic” US TV channels will not show this or talk about it. If we don’t talk about Ukraine, then Ukraine doesn’t exist.
This forum is the only place where US citizens can find out the truth about Biden's criminal policies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 03:40
… this is the way to save population and infrastructure… you are saying that Russians are using only drunkees and drug addicts… can you imagine what will happen if they activate real army in full potential…?! In any way, road to Kramatorsk and Slavyansk are opened… fierce battles for those cities will begin soon… and new destructions and killing of people, sadly…
Russians do not have normal people or very few of them. Ukraine killed the professional Russian army back in 2022. Now the Russians are mobilizing a lot of drug addicts, prisoners, alcoholics and throwing them into positions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. These are called meat assaults. The Russians used the same tactics in World War II, when the Germans simply ran out of ammunition. Imagine a huge crowd of orcs (even without weapons) who, like zombies, are walking towards you over their own corpses. This is russia, this is the Russians. The Russians also have shells for artillery, which are supplied to them by North Korea, Iran, and China.
The road is not yet open anywhere, the Ukrainian Armed Forces retreated to the prepared defensive line, not even to the second one. If there are weapons, the Russian orcs will be killed, if there are no weapons, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will retreat.

Of course, the most correct thing would be not to resist the Russian orcs and let them reach the EU borders. But there are problems that I wrote about, many Ukrainians will die at the hands of Russian Na.zis, much more than from warfare. Therefore, Ukraine will continue to wage war as long as it can.
There is hope that Trump will win the US elections, then the situation will change in favor of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 17, 2024, 04:16
… uh, you are totally taken with a hatred… there is no difference between people, every nation have different groups of people… if you say that they are all bad, than something have haunted you… you words contain very heavy narative, like naz.s do… i understand your frustrations, but your problems are not your closest neighbours, maybe yours and their politicians…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 17, 2024, 04:23
… new commander of UA Oleksandr Syrskyi, ordered withdrawal from Avdiivka…

The false “democratic” US TV channels will not show this or talk about it. If we don’t talk about Ukraine, then Ukraine doesn’t exist.
This forum is the only place where US citizens can find out the truth about Biden's criminal policies.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/ukraine-avdiivka-withdraw-despair.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/ukraine-avdiivka-withdraw-despair.html)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna139145 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna139145)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/16/avdiivka-ukraine-russia-retreat-withdraw/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/16/avdiivka-ukraine-russia-retreat-withdraw/)

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/ukraine-withdraws-avdiivka-intl/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/ukraine-withdraws-avdiivka-intl/index.html)

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/feb/17/russia-ukraine-war-live-ukraines-forces-withdraw-from-avdiivka (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/feb/17/russia-ukraine-war-live-ukraines-forces-withdraw-from-avdiivka)

https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/17/ukraine-withdrawing-from-avdiivka-where-outnumbered-defenders-held-out-for-4-months (https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/17/ukraine-withdrawing-from-avdiivka-where-outnumbered-defenders-held-out-for-4-months)


… everyone are talking about that, do not know what king of internet you use not seeing this…?!




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 04:33
Julia Navalny, wife of Alexei Navalny speaks out on her husband's reported death at the Munich Security Conference. Dozens of world leaders are gathering for the Munich Security Conference, in the German city. The annual forum to debate the world's most pressing security challenges is marking its 60th edition. And this year the list of challenges is especially long.

https://youtu.be/3tdeGzqlMvY (https://youtu.be/3tdeGzqlMvY)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 04:37
"Russia did not capture anything. We will wait for weapons, of which there were not enough," Zelenskyy commented on the withdrawal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces from Avdiivka in Munich.

The reason for the departure of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Avdiivka in Donetsk region is the insufficient amount of necessary weapons.

President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy said this on Saturday, February 17, during the Munich conference.

"Ukraine can win. We can get our land back, Putin can lose. And it was already happening on the battlefield. Our actions are limited only by the sufficiency and range of our means of destruction. But it depends not only on us. And the situation in Avdiivka confirms this. Unfortunately, keeping Ukraine in an artificial shortage of weapons, in particular in the shortage of artillery and long-range weapons, allows Putin to adapt to the intensity of hostilities. This weakening of democracy undermines our joint ability," Zelenskyy said, stressing that Russia now has the only advantage — the complete devaluation of human lives, constant meat assaults prove it.

According to Zelenskyi, the decision to withdraw from Avdiivka was made to save the lives of our soldiers.

"In order not to get surrounded, a decision was made to withdraw to other frontiers. This does not mean that Russia seized something. She did not capture anything. During the two years of the war, Russia tried to do something in the east. They simply destroyed several small villages and towns. But the biggest thing they destroyed was our life," the president said.

However, he emphasized that the Russian army is exhausted, and Ukraine will wait for weapons, which were not enough.

"Their counteroffensive actions began in October, and since October they attacked this unfortunate Avdiivka with all the weapons, all the power they had. It's just that thousands of their soldiers died. Tens of thousands. This is what Russia has achieved. The exhaustion of the army, I believe, is constantly carried out by our military. Saving our lives. Recovery will follow. We will wait for weapons, which were not enough... There are no long-range weapons - Russia has them, but we have very few. This is the whole truth. Therefore, our main weapon today is our soldiers, our people. That's why we count on the support of our partners," Zelenskyy emphasized, adding that Ukraine is waiting for the promised weapons, which have been agreed upon.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 04:40
… new commander of UA Oleksandr Syrskyi, ordered withdrawal from Avdiivka…

The false “democratic” US TV channels will not show this or talk about it. If we don’t talk about Ukraine, then Ukraine doesn’t exist.
This forum is the only place where US citizens can find out the truth about Biden's criminal policies.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/ukraine-avdiivka-withdraw-despair.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/17/world/europe/ukraine-avdiivka-withdraw-despair.html)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna139145 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna139145)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/16/avdiivka-ukraine-russia-retreat-withdraw/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/02/16/avdiivka-ukraine-russia-retreat-withdraw/)

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/ukraine-withdraws-avdiivka-intl/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/16/europe/ukraine-withdraws-avdiivka-intl/index.html)

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/feb/17/russia-ukraine-war-live-ukraines-forces-withdraw-from-avdiivka (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/feb/17/russia-ukraine-war-live-ukraines-forces-withdraw-from-avdiivka)

https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/17/ukraine-withdrawing-from-avdiivka-where-outnumbered-defenders-held-out-for-4-months (https://www.euronews.com/2024/02/17/ukraine-withdrawing-from-avdiivka-where-outnumbered-defenders-held-out-for-4-months)

… everyone are talking about that, do not know what king of internet you use not seeing this…?!

I was talking about TV channels. It is TV channels that the majority of the US population (electorate) watches. Not many people read newspapers.
1. I was talking about TV.
2. I spoke only about the USA.
3. Re-read what I wrote again.
4. I watch US TV channels.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 17, 2024, 05:29
… ok, now I understand… that is well kept secret on US TV channels…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 17, 2024, 07:24
… first things first…

https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/news/ukraine-legalizes-medical-marijuana-president-zelensky/ (https://www.cannabisbusinesstimes.com/news/ukraine-legalizes-medical-marijuana-president-zelensky/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 07:54
So. Putin killed Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. What will be the reaction of the cowardly US Democrats and the impotent Biden? I give 100% that there will be no reaction. There will be no normal sanctions (most likely there will be no sanctions at all before the elections in russia).
What putin did and how he controls US Democrats:
1. Putin publicly said that he supports Biden in the US presidential election.
2. Biden has been pursuing a soft policy towards Russians throughout his tenure, supports putin and helps putin hold elections in russia without any problems.
3. A few days later, putin kills Alexei Navalny.
4. Now Biden will work on supporting putin and will not stop the Russians from committing any crimes.

The US Democratic Party should be banned. Biden's place is in prison.

Putin only needs US democrats, they are the ones who allow the Russians to commit any crimes against humanity and strengthen Na.z.ism in the Russian empire.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 07:57
… ok, now I understand… that is well kept secret on US TV channels…
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 09:45
Before the Russian elections, putin openly demonstrated to the world the cowardice of the US Democratic Party. The demonstrative murder of Alexei Navalny and the occupation of Avdiivka by the Russians are excellent gifts for putin from Biden.
 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 17, 2024, 10:07
… he obviously plays a game and negatively impacts Biden popularity… he directly wants to involve with his influence(negative in this case) in upcoming elections… not in Bidens favor… and thats bad for Ukraine, for sure…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 11:38
… he obviously plays a game and negatively impacts Biden popularity… he directly wants to involve with his influence(negative in this case) in upcoming elections… not in Bidens favor… and thats bad for Ukraine, for sure…
If they talked about Ukraine on US TV channels, and if the US reacted strongly to the murder of Navalny and introduced serious sanctions, I could still believe a little in what you write. But I only see Biden’s support for putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 13:59
Timothy Snyder

The same people who say "Europeans should pay their share" ignore Ukrainians who are paying with their lives.

Speaking of paying our share… If the US gave as much/GDP to Ukraine as does Denmark or Slovakia, Ukraine would win easily. If we gave as much/GDP to Ukraine as Estonia does, Ukraine would likely have won long ago. Ukrainian victory is what matters and we are the slackers.

https://twitter.com/TimothyDSnyder/status/1757886290165436779 (https://twitter.com/TimothyDSnyder/status/1757886290165436779)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 14:02
 8) 8) 8)
Americans, Canadians, and Ukrainians killed 22 Russians at the stronghold. 08/23/2023

I analyze in detail one of the most spectacular videos of the Russian-Ukrainian war. These unique August shots of the taking of the enemy's position in the Avdiivka direction will go down in history as an exemplary assault on the enemy's commanding height, performed in character. Honor and glory to the reconnaissance company of the 59th motorized infantry brigade!

The video has English speech and English subtitles. It is also possible to translate subtitles into any language.

https://youtu.be/rp_p6Rb7pqk (https://youtu.be/rp_p6Rb7pqk)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 17, 2024, 14:36
Ukrainian radio broadcast. The only place in the world where you can hear the truth about the cowardly democrats in the US and EU.

Fear is demoralizing the West. They resemble scared penguins.

https://youtu.be/Yo7XiNOAQqE (https://youtu.be/Yo7XiNOAQqE)

The conversation is mainly about the murder of Navalny, cowardly Biden and the cowardly EU countries.

There is an English translation in the subtitle settings. In general, the translation is normal.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 17, 2024, 19:02
President Joe Biden has said the US House's decision to call a two-week recess without passing fresh aid for Ukraine is "bizarre" and "outrageous".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 03:25
President Joe Biden has said the US House's decision to call a two-week recess without passing fresh aid for Ukraine is "bizarre" and "outrageous".
Yes, this bas.tard Biden has not given Ukraine normal weapons and in normal quantities for two years, and now he is blaming the US House. Without aviation, medium- and long-range missiles and tanks, Ukraine will lose the war and will be occupied. Also, putin’s friend Biden can even now send weapons to Ukraine from US military warehouses. But of course, putin’s agent Biden is better off doing nothing and blaming the Republicans for everything. The same applies to cowardly EU countries that are copying Biden’s actions.
Yes, the Democrats are now conducting anti-Trump propaganda, and all this propaganda is a complete lie.

All US media works for Biden and against Trump. These include TV channels and newspapers.
Even if Biden be dying, the image of a successful president will still be created.
Biden has long been a frail old man. But thanks to the lying democratic media, he has a good rating.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 18, 2024, 04:37
"...This makes it all the more urgent to provide Ukraine with equipment and funding. The fact that the Ukrainian army is now running out of ammunition is "absurd" and "unethical". In a telephone call, Biden once again assured Zelensky of the support of the USA, the White House announced. He emphasized that Congress urgently needed to approve a new aid package for Ukraine.

The lack of US support was partly responsible for the retreat: the Ukrainian soldiers had had to "ration their ammunition due to the inaction of Congress". An aid package worth around 60 billion US dollars (just under 56 billion euros) is stuck in the US Congress. Although the Senate has given its consent, approval by the House of Representatives is still pending, as the Republicans have a narrow majority there. Members from the right fringe of the party are opposing further US aid for Ukraine."...

"...The Republicans' "no" to the latest draft of the legislative package had already become apparent."...

"...Former Republican US President Donald Trump, who is also likely to run against incumbent Joe Biden in next November's election, had also spoken out clearly against it in advance."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 04:49
"...This makes it all the more urgent to provide Ukraine with equipment and funding. The fact that the Ukrainian army is now running out of ammunition is "absurd" and "unethical". In a telephone call, Biden once again assured Zelensky of the support of the USA, the White House announced. He emphasized that Congress urgently needed to approve a new aid package for Ukraine.

The lack of US support was partly responsible for the retreat: the Ukrainian soldiers had had to "ration their ammunition due to the inaction of Congress". An aid package worth around 60 billion US dollars (just under 56 billion euros) is stuck in the US Congress. Although the Senate has given its consent, approval by the House of Representatives is still pending, as the Republicans have a narrow majority there. Members from the right fringe of the party are opposing further US aid for Ukraine."...

"...The Republicans' "no" to the latest draft of the legislative package had already become apparent."...

"...Former Republican US President Donald Trump, who is also likely to run against incumbent Joe Biden in next November's election, had also spoken out clearly against it in advance."
This is all propaganda from the Democrats. I have tore all of these arguments in my posts over the past few weeks.

Wilm, come to Ukraine (it’s a few hours’ drive from you) and try to fight without aircraft, missiles and tanks. Provided that the Russians have aviation, missiles and tanks. And let’s even take into account the assistance that the EU and the USA gave, and this is mainly only artillery shells. I give you 100% that the Russians will kill you very quickly.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: tätarätä on February 18, 2024, 04:57
"...This makes it all the more urgent to provide Ukraine with equipment and funding. The fact that the Ukrainian army is now running out of ammunition is "absurd" and "unethical".
Yes it is. But in fact Europe and US are running out of ammunition.
I am quite sure that Europe will get in a war with Russia in less than 10 years.
So we should start to produce more weapon and ammunition now. It won't prevent the upcoming war with Russia but will give us some chance.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 05:23
https://twitter.com/naalsio26/status/1758670525499367570 (https://twitter.com/naalsio26/status/1758670525499367570)

#Avdiivka offensive equipment loss numbers as of 16 February 2024.

In summary: 666 RU losses vs. 57 UA losses
 ;D ;D ;D

Spreadsheet showing the losses in detail:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VIyACYHfnJi8cUMWjXAXDhS419l9IHcIhGJaK1RWMFQ/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VIyACYHfnJi8cUMWjXAXDhS419l9IHcIhGJaK1RWMFQ/edit?usp=sharing)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGgNbLpW4AA7D3S?format=png&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGgNbtBW8AAobFR?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 05:27
"...This makes it all the more urgent to provide Ukraine with equipment and funding. The fact that the Ukrainian army is now running out of ammunition is "absurd" and "unethical".
Yes it is. But in fact Europe and US are running out of ammunition.
I am quite sure that Europe will get in a war with Russia in less than 10 years.
So we should start to produce more weapon and ammunition now. It won't prevent the upcoming war with Russia but will give us some chance.
+100
Although military experts believe that with a strong US president it would be possible to eliminate the Russians on the territory of Ukraine. For this, Ukraine needs missiles with a range of 500-1000 km (to destroy Russian logistics), aviation (to eliminate Russians and their equipment) and tanks (to liberate Ukraine). With this weapon, the need for artillery shells will decrease by 10 times.
NATO has aviation, missiles and tanks.

Ukraine can solve the problem called russia, but the Ukrainian Armed Forces need weapons.
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 05:33
Explaining complex things in simple words: Navalny’s death.

17.02.2024 13:00
The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine.
Navalny’s death

The Federal Penitentiary Service of the Russian Federation announced that on February 16, the Russian opposition politician Alexey Navalny died in correctional colony No. 3 in the town of Kharp in the Yamalo-Nenets area, where he was serving a sentence by a Russian court.

The death of Alexey Navalny in a Russian colony is a political murder. The Kremlin will not allow an independent investigation into the circumstances of the opposition politician's death, and there is no reason to trust any"official version."

The regime already tried to kill Navalny: in 2020, the Russian special services poisoned the politician with the "Novichok" nerve agent, similarly to what happened with the Skripal family in British Salisbury.

This is not the first public execution of a person who posed or could potentially pose a threat to Putin's political monopoly. In 2015, opposition leader Boris Nemtsov was shot dead near the Kremlin. His murderers turned out to be servicemen of the Kadyrov division of the Russian Guard.

In 2006, agents of the special services of the Russian Federation poisoned ex-FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko with polonium in London. The same year, opposition journalist Anna Politkovska was killed in Moscow. Andrey Lugovoy, one of the perpetrators of Lytvynenko's murder, later became a member of the State Duma. Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of the Wagner PMC, died under mysterious circumstances a month after an unsuccessful attempt at an armed rebellion.

Navalny is not the only Russian opposition figure who ended up in prison on fabricated charges. Vladimir Kara-Murza, Ilya Yashin, Liliya Chanysheva, Vadim Ostanin, Daniel Kholodny and others are serving long sentences. Their lives are also in danger.

Demonstrative massacres of opposition are a show of Putin's intolerance of any kind of competition. This also evidences that the power in Russia cannot change in a democratic way.

Putin's regime is demonstrating its own inability to negotiate and its desire to physically destroy opponents, despite the international community urging him otherwise.

Putin's regime is a danger both to its own citizens and to the world order.

The only way to neutralize this danger is to fight off Russian aggression and ensure Ukraine's victory in the war. The Ukrainian military demonstrates the ability to effectively handle this task. Therefore, increasing military aid and comprehensive support to Ukraine will save many human lives, not only in Ukraine or Russia.

Navalny's murder is a defiant challenge to the West, which was concerned about the fate of the political prisoner. On June 16, 2021, US President Joe Biden warned that if Navalny were to die in prison, the consequences would be devastating for Russia.

Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3828451-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-navalnys-death.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3828451-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-navalnys-death.html)
__________

Biden! So where are the consequences that would be devastating for russia?
Biden is grateful to putin for his support ahead of the US elections!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 05:39
The Ukrainian Armed Forces estimated Russia's losses in Avdiivka over four months at 47,000 people. The joint press center of the Tauride Defense Forces reported on Sunday.
The Avdiivka defensive operation lasted from October 10, 2023 to February 17, 2024.

 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 08:23

All US media works for Biden and against Trump. These include TV channels and newspapers.

Except that the meme you saw above was made by an Ukrainian (check the signature), one of many Ukrainians who, unlike you, doesn't live in a bubble and is able to understand reality and who are Ukraine's real enemies.

The obvious fact is that a solid majority of trump's maga senators voted against Ukraine, and the lower house, led by a Trump-cult loyalist (the one putin is proud of) is refusing to discuss the bill meant to keep Ukraine strong.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 08:34
Zero Talent, how much money are you being paid by the democrats to support Biden and spread propaganda?

At a minimum, Biden should be sent to a home for the elderly, and not dragged into the presidency of the United States.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 08:57
Zero Talent, how much money are you being paid by the democrats to support Biden and spread propaganda?

At a minimum, Biden should be sent to a home for the elderly, and not dragged into the presidency of the United States.  ;D ;D ;D

It is obviously very hard for you to comprehend that being anti-trump does not mean being pro-Biden. I have told you many times that I would vote with my eyes closed for a true GOP candidate like Nikki Haley.

Being anti-Trump means being first of all anti-stupidity, then anti-isolationism, anti-fascism, anti-authoritarianism—in other words, pro-democracy.

It's sad to see that such obvious facts are even harder for you to understand than the simple fact that being pro-trump and pro-maga is being anti-Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 09:07
Being anti-TrumpBiden means being first of all anti-stupidity, then anti-isolationism, anti-fascism, anti-authoritarianism—in other words, pro-democracy.
I only agree with this formulation. I corrected you, now everything is written correctly.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 09:24
Antony Blinken is the best candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 09:26
More than 2 days after, your "saviour" has not mentioned a word about the murder of Navalny by his buddy putin.

Obviously, we must understand that it's not because he doesn't want to call his buddy a murderer, but because he was too busy scamming his sheepishly dumb cult followers out of $400 golden sneakers. That's precisely what a true leader is expected to do. 🤮
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 09:40
More than 2 days after, your "saviour" has not mentioned a word about the murder of Navalny by his buddy putin.
The President of the United States should not engage in chatter, empty promises and singing beautiful songs. The President of the United States must act. When Trump becomes president, he will act (and may not even issue any ultimatums). In the meantime, we only hear empty chatter from Biden.
I don't think Trump is a good candidate, but compared to Biden, even he is much better.

Nice sneakers!  ;D
Perhaps he is thinking about how he will hit Biden's ass with these sneakers, and kick out Biden of the White House.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 09:52
Nice sneakers!  ;D
Perhaps he is thinking about how he will hit Biden's ass with these sneakers, driving Biden out of the White House.  ;D ;D ;D

Yep, bling-bling sneakers like his bling-bling toilet in his bling-bling apartment.
What an abomination!

But have at it. Start saving and hurry... make your "savior" rich again.

Also, continue to believe that everything he's doing is for you (and for Ukraine).

And obviously, at 77, he is capable of changing and he will certainly become a totally different person overnight.

Right!

And they say it's not a cult!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 10:01
Let the US Democrats replace Biden with Blinken, and then I can write at least something good about them. What can you think about the people who are nominating the frail old man Biden for the presidency? This is idiocy and support for putin.
The USA and the whole world need a strong president!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 10:09
Let the US Democrats replace Biden with Blinken, and then I can write at least something good about them. What can you think about the people who are nominating the frail old man Biden for the presidency? This is idiocy and support for putin.
The USA and the whole world need a strong president!

Yes, nominating two frail, old men with incipient senility is a colossal mistake!
https://youtu.be/NpBPm0b9deQ

That's why I told you repeatedly that the best candidate is Nikki Haley. However, she stands no chance against the bling-bling cult. Blinken could definitely be a good choice.

Regardless, a monkey would be a better president than the bling-bling moron.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 10:50
Map of mosques in Germany.
 :o :o :o

(https://scontent.flwo4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/424685777_925150449213440_1003799277644324944_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=cybe-IWOqzoAX9oolcm&_nc_ht=scontent.flwo4-1.fna&oh=00_AfAc08N2O_tNZ3z96DF2SR1W7XMAfPLTVKIBLCS9Ayh-Ag&oe=65D74140)

Germans, are you still alive there?

Now it’s clear why the Germans accept Ukrainians so much.   ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 10:56
Let the US Democrats replace Biden with Blinken, and then I can write at least something good about them. What can you think about the people who are nominating the frail old man Biden for the presidency? This is idiocy and support for putin.
The USA and the whole world need a strong president!

Yes, nominating two frail, old men with incipient senility is a colossal mistake!
https://youtu.be/NpBPm0b9deQ

That's why I told you repeatedly that the best candidate is Nikki Haley. However, she stands no chance against the bling-bling cult. Blinken could definitely be a good choice.

Regardless, a monkey would be a better president than the bling-bling moron.
The conclusion is very simple. Trump is younger than Biden and in better physical shape. That's why Trump should be president.
It was in the USSR that they liked to appoint old men as general secretaries, who were then buried under general mourning in Moscow. The USA does not want to turn into the USSR?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 11:10


The conclusion is very simple. Trump is younger than Biden and in better physical shape. That's why Trump should be president.
It was in the USSR that they liked to appoint old men as general secretaries, who were then buried under general mourning in Moscow. The USA does not want to turn into the USSR?

The conclusion is simple: trump will be the oldest president ever elected in the USA. He shows clear signs of senile behaviour on top of his life long stupidity.

And when it comes to his "physical shape," you should see him without his tons of bronze makeup, his hair implants, and his obese belly corset.

And they say it's not a cult!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 11:19
you should see him without his tons of bronze makeup, his hair implants, and his obese belly corset.
photoshop, artificial intelligence, propaganda.
I'm afraid to imagine what Biden will be like then.
You don't need to look at the photo, you only need to watch the video.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 11:36
you should see him without his tons of bronze makeup, his hair implants, and his obese belly corset.
photoshop, artificial intelligence, propaganda.
I'm afraid to imagine what Biden will be like then.
You don't need to look at the photo, you only need to watch the video.

And they say it's not a cult!

In fact, he looks like this:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 18, 2024, 11:45
Map of mosques in Germany.
 :o :o :o

(https://scontent.flwo4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/424685777_925150449213440_1003799277644324944_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s600x600&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=cybe-IWOqzoAX9oolcm&_nc_ht=scontent.flwo4-1.fna&oh=00_AfAc08N2O_tNZ3z96DF2SR1W7XMAfPLTVKIBLCS9Ayh-Ag&oe=65D74140)

Germans, are you still alive there?

Now it’s clear why the Germans accept Ukrainians so much.   ;D

I don't really know what you're trying to tell us.

Not all mosques are the size of the Hagia Sophia. A mosque is first and foremost a place where followers of Islam meet. It can be a small room or an apartment. There are actually around 3000 meeting places in Germany, but only around 300 of them are structurally distinctive, i.e. with a dome or minaret.

This is not really unusual for a country in which around 3 million people with Turkish roots have been living for decades.

I find your criticism of the fact that we here in Germany offer people from Ukraine protection and, above all, medical care, is absolutely way below the belt and quite antisocial.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 12:12
This is not really unusual for a country in which around 3 million people with Turkish roots have been living for decades.
Ok.
 :-\

I find your criticism of the fact that we here in Germany offer people from Ukraine protection and, above all, medical care, is absolutely way below the belt and quite antisocial.
I am confident that Ukraine itself can provide its refugees with everything they need on the territory of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 12:13
In fact, he looks like this:
+100
Yes, that’s exactly what his character is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 12:33
In fact, he looks like this:
+100
Yes, that’s exactly what his character is.

... and they say it's not a cult.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 12:41
I don't really know what you're trying to tell us. 

He is only proving that his "information" sources are deeply rooted in the maga, Le Pen, De Wilders, Orbán, AfD... etc Islamophobic bubbles.

Very precious from someone who claims to care about Muslim Crimean Tatars.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 18, 2024, 12:47

I find your criticism of the fact that we here in Germany offer people from Ukraine protection and, above all, medical care, is absolutely way below the belt and quite antisocial.
I am confident that Ukraine itself can provide its refugees with everything they need on the territory of Ukraine.

If this is indeed the case (which I cannot judge), then you should direct your criticism at Ukraine itself or at the Ukrainian refugees themselves.

In any case, I find it very inappropriate to criticize or even mock countries that take in war refugees at their own expense for humanitarian reasons.

Nobody here wanted that either, not even for demographic reasons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 18, 2024, 13:05
I don't really know what you're trying to tell us. 

He is only proving that his "information" sources are deeply rooted in the maga, Le Pen, De Wilders, Orbán, AfD... etc Islamophobic bubbles.

Very precious from someone who claims to care about Muslim Crimean Tatars.

Yes, that was probably the hint.

However, you have to make a bit of a distinction. The political shift to the right in Europe is not primarily due to an Islamophobic bubble, but to growing problems caused by uncontrolled migration.

Yesterday in The Hague in the Netherlands, several hundred Eritreans attacked police officers and set fire to houses and cars. Nobody wants that here anymore.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 13:14
I don't really know what you're trying to tell us. 

He is only proving that his "information" sources are deeply rooted in the maga, Le Pen, De Wilders, Orbán, AfD... etc Islamophobic bubbles.

Very precious from someone who claims to care about Muslim Crimean Tatars.

Yes, that was probably the hint.

However, you have to make a bit of a distinction. The political shift to the right in Europe is not primarily due to an Islamophobic bubble, but to growing problems caused by uncontrolled migration.

Yesterday in The Hague in the Netherlands, several hundred Eritreans attacked police officers and set fire to houses and cars. Nobody wants that here anymore.

The anti-immigration sentiment stems not only from xenophobia, but even more from racism and Islamophobia (the real reason behind that mosques map).

Besides, Eritreans (probably) have a small Christian Orthodox majority.

As long as the immigrants are productive members of society, it doesn't matter if they belong to a different country, race, or religion.
If they are non-productive members of society, they should be blamed as much as the native non-productive members of society.

There is no place for "birth rights" in a free and civilised society.

Maps like that mosque map should not be a thing in a free and civilized society.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 18, 2024, 13:50
I don't really know what you're trying to tell us. 

He is only proving that his "information" sources are deeply rooted in the maga, Le Pen, De Wilders, Orbán, AfD... etc Islamophobic bubbles.

Very precious from someone who claims to care about Muslim Crimean Tatars.

Yes, that was probably the hint.

However, you have to make a bit of a distinction. The political shift to the right in Europe is not primarily due to an Islamophobic bubble, but to growing problems caused by uncontrolled migration.

Yesterday in The Hague in the Netherlands, several hundred Eritreans attacked police officers and set fire to houses and cars. Nobody wants that here anymore.

The anti-immigration sentiment stems not only from xenophobia, but even more from racism and Islamophobia (the real reason behind that mosques map).

Besides, Eritreans (probably) have a small Christian Orthodox majority.

As long as the immigrants are productive members of society, it doesn't matter if they belong to a different country, race, or religion.
If they are non-productive members of society, they should be blamed as much as the native non-productive members of society.

There is no place for "birth rights" in a free and civilised society.

Maps like that mosque map should not be a thing in a free and civilized society.

I'm not sure whether we're talking at cross purposes right now.

If we leave out the minority of really right-wing extremists, the general mood in Europe has never been fundamentally xenophobic or against migration.

The mood has changed, partly due to increasing migration-related crime. In Germany, the number of knife attacks rose by 30% last year; the term gang rape was practically non-existent before.

The religion of the Eritreans is also irrelevant. They are people who have understandably fled their home country and found protection in a European country. That's not how you behave in a host country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 13:53
Documentary video of the work of elite soldiers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Avdiivka. English subtitles included.

https://youtu.be/jSUlzE1PjZA (https://youtu.be/jSUlzE1PjZA)

Entry of the Third Assault Division into Avdiivka: a raid into the occupied areas.

Video of the battles in Avdiivka of the Third Assault Brigade, which was urgently transferred to a critically difficult section of the front to strengthen the Ukrainian defense. The video footage shows intense fighting during the raid of the 1st mechanized battalion of the brigade, whose fighters were the first to enter the area captured by the enemy.

Soldiers have to work in the conditions of continuous enemy artillery fire, dropping guided aerial bombs and FPV drones, and significant numerical superiority of enemy forces. Despite the complexity of the situation, they do not lose their fighting spirit, continue to perform tasks, act clearly and coherently.

Also on the video footage are the work of soldiers of the 3rd OShBr with a grenade launcher and LNG, defeating the enemy with FPV drones, planting explosives and successfully blowing up a building with occupants.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 18, 2024, 14:01
Maps like that mosque map should not be a thing in a free and civilized society.
1. All Muslims are against Israel and support Hamas.
2. Russia is mainly a Muslim country. I think that the KGB is working with Muslims in Germany. When the time comes, Germany will receive a second front inside the country, when Muslims will shoot the Germans in the back.
3. The democratic world has been waging war against Islamic terrorism for many years.
4. There is a third world war. Democratic principles must be limited. The reality is different.
5. This map points out the real dangers inside Germany.
6. Russians need to be deported from EU and NATO countries.

Don't you like all this? Does this contradict your principles? Wake up, the war is on.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 18, 2024, 14:56

2. Russia is mainly a Muslim country. I think that the KGB is working with Muslims in Germany.

This is factually incorrect. Once more you pull "facts" out of your a@@.
"Muslims in Russia numbered 14 million or roughly 10% of the total population. One of the Grand Muftis of Russia, sheikh Rawil Gaynetdin, estimated the Muslim population of Russia at 25 million in 2018"

The rest of your "points" are simply wrong, ugly generalizations—a series of fascist, Islamophobic rants with no place in any democratic, free and civilized society.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 03:42

2. Russia is mainly a Muslim country. I think that the KGB is working with Muslims in Germany.
"Muslims in Russia numbered 14 million or roughly 10% of the total population. One of the Grand Muftis of Russia, sheikh Rawil Gaynetdin, estimated the Muslim population of Russia at 25 million in 2018"
"russia has the largest Muslim population in Europe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Russia)

1. Any statistics obtained from Russians or from persons controlled by Russians are false.
2. The Russian Church may include the population of Ukraine in its “statistics”. What is wrong.
3. In any case, the Russians have enormous influence on Muslims around the world and in Germany as well.

The more Russians and Muslims live in Germany and the EU, the more opportunities russia has to destabilize the situation in these countries, create a pretext for the entry of Russian occupation troops, and open a second internal front against NATO countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 03:43
The rest of your "points" are simply wrong, ugly generalizations—a series of fascist, Islamophobic rants with no place in any democratic, free and civilized society.
:'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 04:13
Überteuerte Transporter bieten Ukrainern kaum Schutz.
Rüstungsskandal erschüttert Pistorius-Ministerium.

https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/ukraine-transporter-ruestungsskandal-bei-pistorius-ministerium-87170630.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/ukraine-transporter-ruestungsskandal-bei-pistorius-ministerium-87170630.bild.html)

Germany supplied bad armored personnel carriers to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 19, 2024, 05:56
… Russia forces Rabotyne in Zaporozye region, it seems that both fronts are opened at the moment…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 06:06
… Russia forces Rabotyne in Zaporozye region, it seems that both fronts are opened at the moment…
What does both fronts mean?
Now the Russians are advancing in the southeastern and eastern directions. This is not the entire front line, but most of it. Ukraine has no aviation, no missiles, no tanks (in the required quantity). This is the main problem, which was created by the bast.ard Biden. There are also few shells for artillery (although what is artillery against missiles and aviation ....).
The Ukrainian Armed Forces and Ukrainians are not surrounded and will retreat to the territory of the EU and NATO countries. But this the most pessimistic scenario.

Germans! Get ready to welcome another 10 million Ukrainians. This is exactly the figure your government has already announced.

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 06:15
https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/8/7179198/ (https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/8/7179198/)

Five checkpoints to be blocked on border with Poland, Hungarians to protest as well.
______

The Russians have worked well with the Poles, Poland is helping russia occupy Ukraine. Of course, not all Poles do this there; most likely many Russians participate there. Well, this is for my posts about what happens when Russians live on the territory of an EU country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 19, 2024, 08:05
"russia has the largest Muslim population in Europe."
Now you are coming home.
This is a totally different matter than "russia is mainly a Muslim country."
Once more, do your homework instead of pulling "facts" out of your a@@.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 08:55
This is a totally different matter than "russia is mainly a Muslim country."
russia is mainly a Muslim country.
I have this information. I cannot confirm it with statistics from the Russians. It's only you who read Russian statistics.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Faustvasea on February 19, 2024, 09:25
This is a totally different matter than "russia is mainly a Muslim country."
russia is mainly a Muslim country.
I have this information. I cannot confirm it with statistics from the Russians. It's only you who read Russian statistics.

I don't like to talk about politics because that's doesn't put food on my table. But Russia is not a Muslim country, they do have Muslim people as other Eu countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 19, 2024, 09:33
https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/8/7179198/ (https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/8/7179198/)

Five checkpoints to be blocked on border with Poland, Hungarians to protest as well.
______

The Russians have worked well with the Poles, Poland is helping russia occupy Ukraine. Of course, not all Poles do this there; most likely many Russians participate there. Well, this is for my posts about what happens when Russians live on the territory of an EU country.
... so Poles send weapons to Ukraine, to help Russia...?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 19, 2024, 09:48
This is a totally different matter than "russia is mainly a Muslim country."
russia is mainly a Muslim country.
I have this information. I cannot confirm it with statistics from the Russians. It's only you who read Russian statistics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah you have access to information nobody else has access to... because it's pulled out of your own private a@@.

Nothing new here. We know that already.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 11:30
https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/8/7179198/ (https://www.eurointegration.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/8/7179198/)

Five checkpoints to be blocked on border with Poland, Hungarians to protest as well.
______

The Russians have worked well with the Poles, Poland is helping russia occupy Ukraine. Of course, not all Poles do this there; most likely many Russians participate there. Well, this is for my posts about what happens when Russians live on the territory of an EU country.
... so Poles send weapons to Ukraine, to help Russia...?!
The Poles block Ukrainian exports and imports. This is a blow to the Ukrainian economy. This is what the Russians need. And this has been going on since November 2023.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 19, 2024, 11:43
… they are protecting their economy, cargo transport companies and agriculture… I suppouse that you understand that everyone have problems, have people who live and work during the war in Ukraine… liberalisation of importing goods from Ukraine, like wheat, hits directly European agriculturist… they can not compete with prices of imported goods… like truck drivers in Poland, EU in general when asking to limit Ukrainian drivers with quotes and tax paying… if I undersood weel, Ukrainian druvers will pay taxes or take some tax numbers in Poland for their activities in EU from February 2024…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 12:13
This is a totally different matter than "russia is mainly a Muslim country."
russia is mainly a Muslim country.
I have this information. I cannot confirm it with statistics from the Russians. It's only you who read Russian statistics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah you have access to information nobody else has access to... because it's pulled out of your own private a@@.

Nothing new here. We know that already.
Your arguments and your opinion are based on Russian statistics created under the control of the KGB. Go to the Russian trolls, they will accept you into their army.
Although Democrats and Russians are friends, which means their trolls are also friends.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 12:15
… they are protecting their economy, cargo transport companies and agriculture… I suppouse that you understand that everyone have problems, have people who live and work during the war in Ukraine… liberalisation of importing goods from Ukraine, like wheat, hits directly European agriculturist… they can not compete with prices of imported goods… like truck drivers in Poland, EU in general when asking to limit Ukrainian drivers with quotes and tax paying… if I undersood weel, Ukrainian druvers will pay taxes or take some tax numbers in Poland for their activities in EU from February 2024…
They violate EU directives in the first place. Ukraine may not sell its products in Poland, but the Poles do not want to let Ukrainian exports to other countries. Yes, everything is done exactly as putin needs. After Ukraine, the Russians will occupy Poland. At the same time, Ukrainians no longer consider Poles friends.
The Poles not only block Ukrainian exports, but also block imports. Yesterday, passenger buses began to be blocked; Ukrainians cannot travel to Poland or enter Ukraine from Poland.
The Russian ally Hungary has already joined in and will also block Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 19, 2024, 12:32
… as fast as you understand how global politics works, you will be enlightened… no one owns Ukraine anything, you should be happy that EU liberals take refugees and support your conflict with Russia with weapons and funds… they are doing that in their interest, of course and in some cases because of humanitarian reasons… there is no justice in this world, big fellows follow interests and when they play games like this, many of countries dissapear or are being destroyed…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 19, 2024, 12:47
This is a totally different matter than "russia is mainly a Muslim country."
russia is mainly a Muslim country.
I have this information. I cannot confirm it with statistics from the Russians. It's only you who read Russian statistics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah you have access to information nobody else has access to... because it's pulled out of your own private a@@.

Nothing new here. We know that already.
Your arguments and your opinion are based on Russian statistics created under the control of the KGB. Go to the Russian trolls, they will accept you into their army.
Although Democrats and Russians are friends, which means their trolls are also friends.

Show us how you reached the conclusion that Russia is a predominantly Muslim state, and prove to us that you are correct. Go ahead! Do it!
Can you do that without pulling facts out of your a@@?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 13:04
… as fast as you understand how global politics works, you will be enlightened… no one owns Ukraine anything, you should be happy that EU liberals take refugees and support your conflict with Russia with weapons and funds… they are doing that in their interest, of course and in some cases because of humanitarian reasons… there is no justice in this world, big fellows follow interests and when they play games like this, many of countries dissapear or are being destroyed…
Agricultural products from russia and Belarus are imported to Poland, and the Poles do not block them. Everything is clear with Poland, it is already lay down under the Russians.
As for the weapons from the EU, you can see for yourself the result from the map of military operations: the Ukrainian Armed Forces are retreating. So “many” weapons were apparently transferred to the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 13:09
This is a totally different matter than "russia is mainly a Muslim country."
russia is mainly a Muslim country.
I have this information. I cannot confirm it with statistics from the Russians. It's only you who read Russian statistics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah you have access to information nobody else has access to... because it's pulled out of your own private a@@.

Nothing new here. We know that already.
Your arguments and your opinion are based on Russian statistics created under the control of the KGB. Go to the Russian trolls, they will accept you into their army.
Although Democrats and Russians are friends, which means their trolls are also friends.

Show us how you reached the conclusion that Russia is a predominantly Muslim state, and prove to us that you are correct. Go ahead! Do it!
Can you do that without pulling facts out of your a@@?
Not for us, but for you. I don’t need to prove anything to you, you yourself have proven to everyone here that you use Russian statistics (= propaganda) for your arguments.
People who deal with these issues will tell you the same thing as me.

So. Russians are Asians, religion is Islam. Everything else is lies and KGB propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 19, 2024, 13:48

So. Russians are Asians, religion is Islam. Everything else is lies and KGB propaganda.

Oh Stoker, what kind of weird reasoning is that?

I've traveled and worked a lot in Asia and had to swallow.

Of course there are Muslims on the Asian continent.
The fact that the overall proportion is around 25% on the continent as a whole has to do primarily with Indonesia, which has a large population.
However, Buddhists and Hindus make up the majority. There are also smaller ethnic religions, Christians and so on. Islam is therefore more of a minority throughout Asia.

It can't be that difficult. If you have other clues from your secret sources, then let me know. I like to learn and can also revise my opinion.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 14:03
Only 5% of exports from Ukraine go through Poland. Now the Poles are blocking the transportation of weapons needed for the front.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 14:08
RalfLiebhold, look at the religion in the countries that were part of the Russian empire, for example Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan.
Russians have been hiding their Asian essence and their Asian roots for several centuries. They appeared recently, have no history, are trying to steal the history of Ukrainians and are trying look like Europeans.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 19, 2024, 14:10

So. Russians are Asians, religion is Islam. Everything else is lies and KGB propaganda.

Oh Stoker, what kind of weird reasoning is that?

I've traveled and worked a lot in Asia and had to swallow.

Of course there are Muslims on the Asian continent.
The fact that the overall proportion is around 25% on the continent as a whole has to do primarily with Indonesia, which has a large population.
However, Buddhists and Hindus make up the majority. There are also smaller ethnic religions, Christians and so on. Islam is therefore more of a minority throughout Asia.

It can't be that difficult. If you have other clues from your secret sources, then let me know. I like to learn and can also revise my opinion.

His "source" is the one I already mentioned a few times above.
He is caught with his pants down... again... and does not have the courage to admit his mistake.

What a sad individual!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 14:12
Zero Talent, you are a troll.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 19, 2024, 14:36
Oxford University professor Karl Abel (1837-1906) claimed that at the end of the 19th century only in the European part of Russia lived 40 million Finno-Tatars and only 15 million purely Slavic.

Abel, Carl Slavic and Latin. Ilchester lectures on comparative lexicography, delivered at the Taylor institution, Oxford, 1883.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 19, 2024, 15:41
RalfLiebhold, look at the religion in the countries that were part of the Russian empire, for example Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan.
Russians have been hiding their Asian essence and their Asian roots for several centuries. They appeared recently, have no history, are trying to steal the history of Ukrainians and are trying look like Europeans.

Yes, all of these states are predominantly Muslim. But they are not part of today's Russia.

I live on the Dutch border, but that doesn't make me Dutch.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 19, 2024, 15:42
Oxford University professor Karl Abel (1837-1906) claimed that at the end of the 19th century only in the European part of Russia lived 40 million Finno-Tatars and only 15 million purely Slavic.

Abel, Carl Slavic and Latin. Ilchester lectures on comparative lexicography, delivered at the Taylor institution, Oxford, 1883.

Carl Abel, not Karl.

In the Russian census of 1897, 11.7% of the population were Muslims. Russia had 125.7 million inhabitants, four-fifths of whom lived in the European part of Russia. Of the 125.7 million Russians, 3.7 million were Tatars. Those of these Tatars who emigrated to Finland between 1870 and 1920, i.e. the Finno-Tatars, were only a tiny proportion. There is something wrong with your figures. I think you have added one too many zeros to the 4 and one too many Finno before the word Tatars.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 19, 2024, 18:36
Zero Talent, you are a troll.

Not at all. I am simply fact-checking your outlandish assertions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 19, 2024, 19:03
Oxford University professor Karl Abel (1837-1906) claimed that at the end of the 19th century only in the European part of Russia lived 40 million Finno-Tatars and only 15 million purely Slavic.

Abel, Carl Slavic and Latin. Ilchester lectures on comparative lexicography, delivered at the Taylor institution, Oxford, 1883.

Carl Abel, not Karl.

In the Russian census of 1897, 11.7% of the population were Muslims. Russia had 125.7 million inhabitants, four-fifths of whom lived in the European part of Russia. Of the 125.7 million Russians, 3.7 million were Tatars. Those of these Tatars who emigrated to Finland between 1870 and 1920, i.e. the Finno-Tatars, were only a tiny proportion. There is something wrong with your figures. I think you have added one too many zeros to the 4 and one too many Finno before the word Tatars.

He didn't even bother to read the book he is quoting.

Because if he had done his homework, he would have realized that he already had the answer.
The author, Carl Abel is saying (see book screenshot below):

"It was only in the reign of the Empress Elizabeth Petrovna  (1741-1762) that the Mordva Finns of Nishni, Novgorod, Simbirsk, Samara, Pensa, Saratoff, Kasan, and Astrakhan were forced to adopt Christianity"


So, those Finno-Tatar Russians became Christians centuries ago.

A different paragraph in the same book refers to Finno-Russian priests, another proof that they had already embraced Christianity long before this book was published in 1883 (when Carl Abel was clearly working hand-in-hand with the KGB 😂).

"The Slavo-Russian marries for love; the Finno-Russian is married by his father, with the assistance of the mediating priest. The priest frequently acts as a paid agent, and the father and the priest, in estimating feminine worth, prefer bones that will stand labour to beauty that is only skin-deep." 

Our friend is clearly confusing genetic ancestry and religion.

We already established many pages ago that russians have a significant component of Finno-Uralic/Siberian ancestry.
That's nothing new. I'm attaching that map again.

That's not making them Muslims.

Genetics does not define one's religion. There is no Muslim gene.  ::)

russia is predominantly Orthodox Christian, and that's an indisputable fact for the whole world, except for our gullible, delusional friend and those few in his informational bubble who feed him the nonsense he is posting here unchewed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 03:21
RalfLiebhold, look at the religion in the countries that were part of the Russian empire, for example Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan.
Russians have been hiding their Asian essence and their Asian roots for several centuries. They appeared recently, have no history, are trying to steal the history of Ukrainians and are trying look like Europeans.

Yes, all of these states are predominantly Muslim. But they are not part of today's Russia.

I live on the Dutch border, but that doesn't make me Dutch.
I answer everyone at once:
Russia is mainly a Muslim country. Russians are Asians.
These two statements do not mean that if a person is Asian, then he must necessarily be Muslim. For example, China, Asians live there, but it is not a Muslim country.
russia is primarily a Muslim country for several reasons:
1. In recent years, there has been a huge birth rate among Muslims and a decline in the birth rate among Russians. Also, Russians are genetic alcoholics and drug addicts, which also leads to their disappearance.
2. A lot of Muslims from the countries of Central Asia and the Caucasus go to russia to work and as migrants. Muslims give birth to many children and therefore their number is constantly growing, while the number of Russians is decreasing.
Also, many Muslims permanently living in russia are not citizens of russia and it is hardly possible to even count them. So we have a territory where Muslims mainly live.

And you all probably thought that if you are Asian, then you are immediately Muslim?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 04:47
In the Russian census of 1897
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Since the time of your German Catherine the Great, who ruled the Russians in the 18th century, the Russians have been lying and rewriting their history. All this was done on her orders. Therefore, any information starting from the time of this German woman is a lie.
So you Germans are responsible for the Russian empire that now exists. You raised this monster!

Better read Carl Abel and others, and also understand better why Russians are Asians.

German bitch Catherine the Great
Finally absorbed Ukraine: destroyed the Cossack Hetmanate (1764) and Zaporozhian Sich (1775), introduced serfdom, carried out Russification.
The list of crimes of Catherine II against the Ukrainian people, in particular:
1763 — Decree of Catherine II prohibiting teaching in the Ukrainian language at the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy.
1764 — Abolition of the Ukrainian Hetmanate by Catherine II, as well as liquidation of Ukrainian educational and cultural institutions and removal of Ukrainian-speaking officials from power.
1764 — 1765 — Abolition of the Ukrainian state of the Hetmanship by Catherine II and liquidation of the Cossack system in the Slobojan region.
1766 — Prohibition of the Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra to print primers and church books in the Ukrainian language and without the permission of the Synod.
1775 — The treacherous attack of Moscow troops on Zaporozhian Sich and its destruction after the decisive help of the Zaporozhians in the Russian-Turkish war of 1768–74 pp.
1777 — Eviction of Crimean Tatars from Crimea and Ukrainians from Ukraine, and resettlement of Muscovites in the places inhabited by them.
1780 — The burning of the library of the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy, which had been gathering for more than 150 years and was one of the richest libraries in Eastern Europe.
1781 — Destruction of the remnants of Cossack self-government on the Left Bank and introduction of the Russian system of administration.
1783 — The final serfdom of the peasants of the Left Bank of Ukraine. Suppression by Catherine II of the Ukrainian national liberation movement — Koliiv Oblast in 1768 and the Turbaiv Uprising of 1789–1793.
1795 — Liquidation of Ukrainian Statehood.

Germans, you and the Russians need to pay for crimes against Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 04:50
Zero Talent, thanks to me you will learn a lot of new things for yourself. You must pay me money!

russia is Orthodox Christian
In fact, there is Orthodox fascism there.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 04:55
I think you have added one too many zeros to the 4 and one too many Finno before the word Tatars.
I didn't add anything.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 04:58
Due to trolling from Zero Talent, we have been distracted from the topic of the EU and its security. We need to figure out how many Muslims already live in Germany, what they are doing, what they plan to do, and what connections they have with the KGB.
But Zero Talent began trolling and working for Russian propaganda and US Democrats. Diversion from the topic is trolling.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 05:19
Speech by President Volodymyr Zelensky at Munich Security Conference

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3828480-speech-by-president-volodymyr-zelensky-at-munich-security-conference.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3828480-speech-by-president-volodymyr-zelensky-at-munich-security-conference.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 20, 2024, 06:54
RalfLiebhold, look at the religion in the countries that were part of the Russian empire, for example Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan.
Russians have been hiding their Asian essence and their Asian roots for several centuries. They appeared recently, have no history, are trying to steal the history of Ukrainians and are trying look like Europeans.

Yes, all of these states are predominantly Muslim. But they are not part of today's Russia.

I live on the Dutch border, but that doesn't make me Dutch.

Russia is mainly a Muslim country..


No!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 07:04
Yes, Russian propaganda and disinformation are strong in Germany. Good job KGB.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 07:39
Diversion from the topic is trolling.

Fact: the original post made by Uncle Pete, (hence this topic) was about elections in the USA. Go back to the 1st page and check ;)

Zero Talent, thanks to me you will learn a lot of new things for yourself. You must pay me money!

russia is Orthodox Christian
In fact, there is Orthodox fascism there.

As I have advised on numerous occasions, you should do your homework first (for example, read the books you are quoting) instead of regurgitating what your handlers are saying and posting misunderstood nonsense here, without thinking, only to desperately try to find an alternative explanation when you are confronted with facts.

With your intolerant attitude, you are doing a huge disservice to Ukraine.

By your flawed logic, Dubai is "mainly" a Hindu country, not Muslim, because there are more temporary workers from India in Dubai than the native population.

Anyway, even with Muslim immigrants from former Soviet republics, Russia is still a predominantly Orthodox Christian country. This is an indisputable fact.

Of course, I did not know about Carl Abel's book. Unlike you, I read the first part related to history. If you would have bothered to read it, you could have learned that he is also saying that before converting to Christianity, the Finno-Russian held pagan beliefs (thus not Islamic, probably Shamanic).
The next parts of the book are about language differences, and I cannot follow them.

But I understand why the book is important for Ukraine in today's information war. It is probably one of the first western authors to flag that Ukrainians and Russians are not identical.
This is something already known today by anyone with a minimal interest in history, who is not brainwashed by putin's propaganda.

As I already mentioned on numerous other occasions, russia is also a fascist state.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 08:34
Diversion from the topic is trolling.
Fact: the original post made by Uncle Pete, (hence this topic) was about elections in the USA. Go back to the 1st page and check ;)
I constantly write in this thread that Biden is a bas.tard and his place is in the electric chair. I also provide evidence of his criminal policies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 08:36
Russia is still a predominantly Orthodox Christian country. This is an indisputable fact.
::) ::) ::)
Go to the Russians, they will accept you into their army.

You didn't understand what I wrote to you. If you continue to claim that russia is an Orthodox country, then at least write the truth - that Orthodox fascism in russia. This means that the Russian Church is the mouthpiece and ideologist of fascism.

russia is also a fascist state.
Not only russia, but its church too.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 08:46
when you are confronted with facts.
For you, Russian lies and propaganda are facts. For me no.  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 08:48
he is also saying that before converting to Christianity, the Finno-Russian held pagan beliefs (thus not Islamic, probably Shamanic).
This is true. For me these are axioms. This is new knowledge for you.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 08:53
dumb cult followers out of $400 golden sneakers. That's precisely what a true leader is expected to do. 🤮
(https://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37652.0;attach=20574;image)

Former US president and presidential candidate Donald Trump on Saturday advertised a pair of golden sneakers at "Sneaker Con."

"I've wanted to do this a long time," the former president said when he announced the launch of a sneaker line.

"The Never Surrender sneakers are your rally cry in shoe form. Lace- up and step out ready to conquer," the website says, referring to the shoes as a "true collector's item" that is "bold, gold and tough, just like President Trump."

https://www.dw.com/en/trump-hawks-399-golden-sneakers-after-court-ordered-fine/a-68290500 (https://www.dw.com/en/trump-hawks-399-golden-sneakers-after-court-ordered-fine/a-68290500)

 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 20, 2024, 09:06
Yes, Russian propaganda and disinformation are strong in Germany. Good job KGB.

 ::)

It really makes no sense with you. But it's clear that you're a Trump supporter. Because you also love lies and "alternative facts".

By the way: The fact that there is a war in Ukraine and that the earth is a sphere is Russian propaganda. Good job KGB.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 20, 2024, 09:08
… after Avdiivka, Rabotino have been next prey for Russians… something is going on, they sre moving superfast after a fall of Avdiivka…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 09:13
… after Avdiivka, Rabotino have been next prey for Russians… something is going on, they sre moving superfast after a fall of Avdiivka…
They advance, but do not move quickly. The Ukrainian Armed Forces in that direction are now killing a lot of Russian orcs. For now, I cannot say that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will leave that bridgehead.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 20, 2024, 09:29
… it’s strange how they spread attacks widely and in with such intensity…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 09:43
dumb cult followers out of $400 golden sneakers. That's precisely what a true leader is expected to do. 🤮
(https://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=37652.0;attach=20574;image)

Former US president and presidential candidate Donald Trump on Saturday advertised a pair of golden sneakers at "Sneaker Con."

"I've wanted to do this a long time," the former president said when he announced the launch of a sneaker line.

"The Never Surrender sneakers are your rally cry in shoe form. Lace- up and step out ready to conquer," the website says, referring to the shoes as a "true collector's item" that is "bold, gold and tough, just like President Trump."

https://www.dw.com/en/trump-hawks-399-golden-sneakers-after-court-ordered-fine/a-68290500 (https://www.dw.com/en/trump-hawks-399-golden-sneakers-after-court-ordered-fine/a-68290500)

 8)

Yep, $20 shoes made in China. Look it up on Aliexpress or Temu.

He added a "T" and an American flag, and now he is scamming his cult followers (who are even dumber than him), out of $400.

Make America Great Again with Chinese tasteless bling-bling. Sweet irony!

And they say it's not a cult.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 09:45
… it’s strange how they spread attacks widely and in with such intensity…
The front line is 3750 km. About 500 thousand Russian orcs invaded Ukraine. There are several dangerous areas now, these are:
1. Avdiivka.
2. Robotino.
3. Bakhmut.
4. Kupiansk.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 09:47
Yep, $20 shoes made in China. Look it up on Aliexpress or Temu.
Will there be proofs?
Where did you find these on Aliexpress? And where is the evidence that Trump buys them in China for $20.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 10:01
he is also saying that before converting to Christianity, the Finno-Russian held pagan beliefs (thus not Islamic, probably Shamanic).
This is true. For me these are axioms. This is new knowledge for you.  ;D

You quoted from that book, without bothering to read it (because you know your "axioms"), to "prove" that today's russia is "mainly" Muslim, because hundreds of years ago, Finno-Russian tribes holding Shamanic beliefs were more numerous than Slavo-Russians in the Muscovy region.

Perfect logic, as usual!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 10:06
Yep, $20 shoes made in China. Look it up on Aliexpress or Temu.
Will there be proofs?
Where did you find these on Aliexpress? And where is the evidence that Trump buys them in China for $20.

Lol. And they say it's not a cult!
Wake up, man!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 10:56
he is also saying that before converting to Christianity, the Finno-Russian held pagan beliefs (thus not Islamic, probably Shamanic).
This is true. For me these are axioms. This is new knowledge for you.  ;D

You quoted from that book, without bothering to read it (because you know your "axioms"), to "prove" that today's russia is "mainly" Muslim, because hundreds of years ago, Finno-Russian tribes holding Shamanic beliefs were more numerous than Slavo-Russians in the Muscovy region.

Perfect logic, as usual!
I quoted this to say that Russians are Asians. Just for this purpose. You need to re-read what I wrote 5 more times.
You only see what you want to see.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 10:59
Zero Talent
1. It's a different shoe and a different model.
2. China steals a lot from models made in other countries, but the quality of China is crap. Have you ever bought shoes in China?
3. You have no evidence against Trump, just like all the Democrat trolls.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 11:19
Zero Talent
1. It's a different shoe and a different model.
2. China steals a lot from models made in other countries, but the quality of China is crap. Have you ever bought shoes in China?
3. You have no evidence against Trump, just like all the Democrat trolls.

And they say it's not a cult!

Wake up, man!

The company that sells those shoes was established in January of this year. It is located in a remote area of Wyoming, in a town known for hosting numerous shell companies.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VbdByWF4uhRfL1Y58

They obviously have no factories in the United States, or else they would have proudly stamped a big "Made in the USA" next to the "T" and that abomination of a so-called "American flag" which only has five stars (like the Chinese flag, lol).
These shoes don't have a country of origin.
They probably learned an embarrassing lesson from those expensive red, made-in-China MAGA hats they sold to their cult sheeply flock.

The factories selling their products for $20 on AliExpress can customize any product based on your wishes, as long as you buy in bulk.

These shoes cost no more than $5 to produce. But you and other MAGA cult sheep are gullible enough to let yourselves be scammed by your guru.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 11:27
The company selling those shoes has been created only in January this year. It's located in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming, in a town known for hosting many shell companies.

They obviously have no factories in the USA, or else they would have proudly slammed a big "Made in the USA", next to the T and that so called "American flag" which only has 5 stars (like the Chines flag, loool).
These shoes have no country of origin. They probably learned an embarassing lesson from those red maga hat.

The factories selling their products for $20 on AliExpress can customize any product based on your wishes, as long as you buy in bulk.

These shoes cost no more than $5 to produce. But you and other MAGA cult sheep are gullible enough to let yourselves be scammed by your guru.
For such accusations, you need to buy these shoes and evaluate their quality for at least 3 weeks. I bought shoes for that kind of money in China, they are impossible to wear and they tear very quickly.
The point of these shoes is to attract money from the electorate to support the Republican candidate. I think in the USA these are normal processes.

I see Trump for you Democrats as a red rag for a bull.  ;D ;D ;D Well done Trump!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 11:40

The point of these shoes is to attract money from the electorate to support the Republican candidate. I think in the USA these are normal processes.

And they say it's not a cult!

Go to the webiste and check the statement attached below.

This money is for no electoral campaign.

This is a simple scam masquerading as a business.

Trump is cashing in huge royalties for himself for allowing his name to be used by this brand-new, unknown company.

You and his cult followers are gullible enough to fall for it!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 20, 2024, 12:06
… it’s strange how they spread attacks widely and in with such intensity…
The front line is 3750 km. About 500 thousand Russian orcs invaded Ukraine. There are several dangerous areas now, these are:
1. Avdiivka.
2. Robotino.
3. Bakhmut.
4. Kupiansk.
… according your data, there is only 100.000 left if 400.000 have been alredy KIA…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 13:20
This money is for no electoral campaign.
Officially and legally it is possible to do so. But Trump said that this is a symbol of his election campaign. Therefore, sneakers already have political significance.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 13:21
… it’s strange how they spread attacks widely and in with such intensity…
The front line is 3750 km. About 500 thousand Russian orcs invaded Ukraine. There are several dangerous areas now, these are:
1. Avdiivka.
2. Robotino.
3. Bakhmut.
4. Kupiansk.
… according your data, there is only 100.000 left if 400.000 have been alredy KIA…
If for all time, then 1 million invaded, 500 thousand remained.
Russia is constantly mobilizing and Russian orcs, terrorists and zombies are constantly arriving in Ukraine. Those who fought in 2022 are no longer alive (the majority), this is new meat.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 20, 2024, 13:50
… like I said, something strange IS happening - Krynky, in Khershon region have been totally occupied… Russians are forcing UA from Kharkov to Kherson..:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 14:34
More than four days later, Ukraine's "savior" has not yet mentioned a word about the murder of Navalny by his buddy putin.

Nikki Haley, on the other hand:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 14:44
… like I said, something strange IS happening - Krynky, in Khershon region have been totally occupied… Russians are forcing UA from Kharkov to Kherson..:

It's not that strange, it's a consequence of maga republicans blocking the aid for Ukraine, and Ukraine is running out of ammunition...


Hundreds of Ukrainian troops may have been captured by advancing Russian units or disappeared during Ukraine’s chaotic retreat from the eastern city of Avdiivka, according to senior Western officials and soldiers fighting for Ukraine, a devastating loss that could deal a blow to already weakening morale.

"The Russian capture of Avdiivka has emerged as a significant symbolic loss for Ukrainian troops, a sign of the battlefield impact of the failure of the U.S. Congress, so far, to approve more military assistance as dwindling supplies of artillery shells make it even harder to hold the line."

But no worries, trump will save Ukraine...  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 14:52
… like I said, something strange IS happening - Krynky, in Khershon region have been totally occupied… Russians are forcing UA from Kharkov to Kherson..:
Did you understand what you wrote?
The Ukrainian flag was installed in Krynky.
Kharkov and Kherson under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 15:00
It's not that strange, it's a consequence of maga republicans blocking the aid for Ukraine, and Ukraine is running out of ammunition...
Republicans don't want to waste money on the idiocy of Biden and the Democrats. And they do it right.
Avdiivka was already almost surrounded. I don't think the shells would have helped much. All this is the result of Biden’s criminal policies over two years.

Hundreds of Ukrainian troops may have been captured by advancing Russian units or disappeared during Ukraine’s chaotic retreat from the eastern city of Avdiivka, according to senior Western officials and soldiers fighting for Ukraine, a devastating loss that could deal a blow to already weakening morale.
This is lies and propaganda from Democrats and Russians.

But no worries, trump will save Ukraine...  ::)
Of course, this is exactly what will happen. Trump will give what Ukraine needs, these are aviation, missiles, tanks. Trump will force the EU to provide all this in the required quantities.
In any case, it is better to deal with Republicans than with Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 15:05
More than four days later, Ukraine's "savior" has not yet mentioned a word about the murder of Navalny by his buddy putin.

Nikki Haley, on the other hand:
This is a coward, a bas.tard and a friend of putin Biden promised to apply crushing sanctions to the Russians if Navalny is killed. And where are these sanctions? Impeach Biden!
Trump didn't promise anything. Now Trump definitely doesn’t need to show himself as an ardent opponent of putin, let the Russians think that Trump is their friend. As for this Nikki Haley, she is engaged in populism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 15:17
Now Trump definitely doesn’t need to show himself as an ardent opponent of putin, let the Russians think that Trump is their friend. As for this Nikki Haley, she is engaged in populism.

Of course, it makes perfect sense: suddenly Ukraine doesn't need weapons anymore because Avdiivka was already lost, and a true GoP candidate like Haley, suddenly embraced populism. Right, right, right...

What else? Ahh... yes: of course, trump is a genius with secret master plan understood only by stocker and the other maga cult followers.

It makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 15:18
The Ukrainian Armed Forces left Avdiivka for the following reasons:
1. The city was 2/3 surrounded by Russians and had been surrounded for a long time. Biden is to blame because he didn't give enough weapons.
2. The Russians bombed the city with 500 kg aerial bombs, approximately 100 bombs per day. Biden is to blame, because he didn’t give the F16 to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 15:21
And, of course, trump is a genius with secret master plan understood only by stocker and the other maga cult followers.
I already wrote. The entire US military industry belongs to the Republicans. It will be very profitable for them to produce weapons for Ukraine using US taxpayers' money. Everything is obvious.
And the Democrats are assholes, cowards and friends of the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 15:24
Zero Talent, are you tired of bringing the same stupid rags from the Democrats to the forum? I'm talking about your screenshots.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 20, 2024, 15:24

[/quote]

Trump will give what Ukraine needs, these are aviation, missiles, tanks.

[/quote]

I think we should end the discussion with you - you're permanently drunk.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 20, 2024, 15:31
Zero Talent, are you tired of bringing the same stupid rags from the Democrats to the forum? I'm talking about your screenshots.

Nikki Haley's screenshot is directly from the true GoP "forum" (whatever "forum" means to you).

The other one is to better explain your twisted lack of logic.
I got it from common-sense-people "forum".

I understand that the truth is difficult to accept, but you should try to experience it occasionally.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 20, 2024, 16:04
Stoker, let me give you a brief summary of your situation:

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 16:15
Stoker, your situation looks like this at the moment:
There is only one difference: instead of that crowd, draw only two Germans and one troll from the Democrats. Total 3 people.  ;D ;D ;D
But obviously you have delusions of grandeur, and this is already a mental diagnosis. Don't you know this, doctor?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 20, 2024, 16:16
I think we should end the discussion with you - you're permanently drunk.
I'm not looking for a discussion with you. You are the one trolling.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 20, 2024, 16:42
Stoker, your situation looks like this at the moment:

But obviously you have delusions of grandeur, and this is already a mental diagnosis. Don't you know this, doctor?

Wrong again. I'm the guy with the scanner, not you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 20, 2024, 16:54
… like I said, something strange IS happening - Krynky, in Khershon region have been totally occupied… Russians are forcing UA from Kharkov to Kherson..:
Did you understand what you wrote?
The Ukrainian flag was installed in Krynky.
Kharkov and Kherson under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
… yes, I do understand…. i’m saying that it is crazy how wide front is and active by the moment - from Khershon to almost Kharkiv… and they are pushing with like crazy…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 03:51
… like I said, something strange IS happening - Krynky, in Khershon region have been totally occupied… Russians are forcing UA from Kharkov to Kherson..:
Did you understand what you wrote?
The Ukrainian flag was installed in Krynky.
Kharkov and Kherson under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
… yes, I do understand…. i’m saying that it is crazy how wide front is and active by the moment - from Khershon to almost Kharkiv… and they are pushing with like crazy…
Everything's under control. In 2022 the situation was much worse.
The Ukrainian Armed Forces need weapons, then the situation will quickly change. But cowardly democrats and friends of the Russians do not and have not given it. Therefore, the Ukrainian Armed Forces fight using the methods of the First World War (this is trench warfare and constant personal contact with the enemy).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 04:45
The Russians have begun the procedure to denounce the 1990 treaty with Germany.
As I understand it, the Russians are planning to occupy half of Germany.

Germans! Kick out your Scholz! Demand the transfer of Taurus missiles to Ukraine. Or prepare parking lots for Russian tanks.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 04:51
This is the reason for blocking Ukraine. This is the work of the KGB.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/9/c/9c6ecfc-------------_690x387.avif)

Polish farmers call on Putin to "bring order to Ukraine"

The controversial placard read: "Putin, bring order to Ukraine, Brussels and our government officials". A Soviet flag was attached next to it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on February 21, 2024, 08:20
The Russians have begun the procedure to denounce the 1990 treaty with Germany.
As I understand it, the Russians are planning to occupy half of Germany.

Germans! Kick out your Scholz! Demand the transfer of Taurus missiles to Ukraine. Or prepare parking lots for Russian tanks.

I was in favor of sending Taurus missiles to the Ukraine, but if an invasion of Russian forces into Germany is imminent, I guess we better keep the missiles to ourselves, so that we have a chance to repel the invasion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 09:56
The Russians have begun the procedure to denounce the 1990 treaty with Germany.
As I understand it, the Russians are planning to occupy half of Germany.

Germans! Kick out your Scholz! Demand the transfer of Taurus missiles to Ukraine. Or prepare parking lots for Russian tanks.

I was in favor of sending Taurus missiles to the Ukraine, but if an invasion of Russian forces into Germany is imminent, I guess we better keep the missiles to ourselves, so that we have a chance to repel the invasion.
How many Germans are ready to fight? How many planes and tanks can Germany field against the Russians?
Your logic is not correct.
Ukraine can prevent Russians from approaching the EU borders and eliminate the Russian army on Ukrainian territory. If the Russians occupy Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltic states, they will approach the borders of Germany and the Russian army will be replenished with mobilized Ukrainians and Poles. You Germans won’t even want to resist.
You need to think strategically.

Better put KGB agent Merkel in prison and remove her follower Scholz.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 10:06
Perhaps this is putin’s blackmail and threats against Germany, so that Germany does not give Ukraine weapons and missiles. But if Germany does what putin wants it to do, it will end badly for Germany. I know that history teaches nothing. Therefore, I am not surprised at how putin successfully manipulates the countries of the EU, NATO and the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 21, 2024, 10:20
How many Germans are ready to fight? How many planes and tanks can Germany field against the Russians?
Your logic is not correct.
Ukraine can prevent Russians from approaching the EU borders and eliminate the Russian army on Ukrainian territory. If the Russians occupy Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltic states, they will approach the borders of Germany and the Russian army will be replenished with mobilized Ukrainians and Poles. You Germans won’t even want to resist.
You need to think strategically.

Better put KGB agent Merkel in prison and remove her follower Scholz.

The voices in your head have forgotten a small variable:
If Russia were to attack just one of the countries mentioned, it would be fighting against NATO - in other words, over 30 countries.

And unlike Ukraine, these countries have air forces and navies.
And just by the way: 30,000 - 40,000 American soldiers are already stationed in Germany, 90,000 throughout Europe since the beginning of the Ukraine war.

So just stay relaxed.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 10:29
Therefore, I am not surprised at how putin successfully manipulates the countries of the EU, NATO and the USA.

You are right about one thing: putin has successfully manipulated the maga fools to block all US aid for Ukraine.
He successfully manipulated maga ideologues like Tucker Carlson into presenting russia as more advanced than the US.

https://youtu.be/oM2h3KnWAWY

And as everyone can see, you are manipulated by maga fools.

Transitive logic dictates that even if you don't realize it, you are manipulated by putin.

Wake up, man!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 10:57
How many Germans are ready to fight? How many planes and tanks can Germany field against the Russians?
Your logic is not correct.
Ukraine can prevent Russians from approaching the EU borders and eliminate the Russian army on Ukrainian territory. If the Russians occupy Ukraine, Poland, and the Baltic states, they will approach the borders of Germany and the Russian army will be replenished with mobilized Ukrainians and Poles. You Germans won’t even want to resist.
You need to think strategically.

Better put KGB agent Merkel in prison and remove her follower Scholz.

The voices in your head have forgotten a small variable:
If Russia were to attack just one of the countries mentioned, it would be fighting against NATO - in other words, over 30 countries.

And unlike Ukraine, these countries have air forces and navies.
And just by the way: 30,000 - 40,000 American soldiers are already stationed in Germany.

So just stay relaxed.
1. So what is the problem then about transferring missiles to Ukraine?
2. If the approach of the Russian army to the EU borders does not scare you, you can completely stop supporting Ukraine.
3. And my personal opinion is that those 40 thousand US soldiers will flee from Germany as quickly as they fled from Afghanistan. The likelihood of this is even higher if the Democrats and Biden win.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 11:00
putin has successfully manipulated the maga fools to block all US aid for Ukraine.
maga fools are not politicians, they are just maga fools. For two years, I have seen how putin has successfully manipulated Biden and the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 11:10
putin has successfully manipulated the maga fools to block all US aid for Ukraine.
maga fools are not politicians, they are just maga fools. For two years, I have seen how putin has successfully manipulated Biden and the Democrats.

Have you seen all those maga fools who made it into the US Congress because they were sent there by other maga fools who voted for them?
Like those maga fools claiming that forest fires are caused by secret space Jewish lasers?
Like all those maga fools who blocked all aid for Ukraine?
Like the beloved maga ideologue Tucker Carlson who claims that life in russia is superior to life in the US?

Wake up and smell the coffee, my (gullible) friend!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 21, 2024, 11:15

1. So what is the problem then about transferring missiles to Ukraine?
2. If the approach of the Russian army to the EU borders does not scare you, you can completely stop supporting Ukraine.
3. And my personal opinion is that those 40 thousand US soldiers will flee from Germany as quickly as they fled from Afghanistan. The likelihood of this is even higher if the Democrats and Biden win.

1) I don't know, I'm not the Minister of Defense. The deliberations of the decision-makers take place behind closed doors. I find it understandable that in a war situation not all information is made public.

2) One gets the impression more and more that you actually want the aid to stop. Apart from self-protection, there are many reasons to support Ukraine against an attack that violates international law.

3) Your personal opinion is pretty irrelevant.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 11:54
putin has successfully manipulated the maga fools to block all US aid for Ukraine.
maga fools are not politicians, they are just maga fools. For two years, I have seen how putin has successfully manipulated Biden and the Democrats.

Have you seen all those maga fools who made it into the US Congress because they were sent there by other maga fools who voted for them?
Like those maga fools claiming that forest fires are caused by secret space Jewish lasers?
Like all those maga fools who blocked all aid for Ukraine?
Like the beloved maga ideologue Tucker Carlson who claims that life in russia is superior to life in the US?
Wake up and smell the coffee, my (gullible) friend!
It's okay, I'm not annoyed by Republicans and their electorate.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 11:56
1) I don't know, I'm not the Minister of Defense. The deliberations of the decision-makers take place behind closed doors. I find it understandable that in a war situation not all information is made public.
But I know why and I’m writing about it.  >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 12:16
Zero Talent, putin supported Biden in the elections, and you support Biden, which means you work for putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 12:42
Zero Talent, putin supported Biden in the elections, and you support Biden, which means you work for putin.

I have already told you four or five times already, that I would gladly vote for a true GoP president like Nikki Haley, instead of Biden, given the chance. But you do not listen, you do not think, and you only post easily debunkable nonsense here.

You are continually shooting yourself in the foot, and you seem to enjoy it. Voting for maga is voting for Ukraine dismemberment.

putin must also enjoy seeing how nicely he's driving Ukraine into disaster, with gullible people like you, like other maga fools, and those in your information bubble whose opinions you are parroting here...

So sad!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 13:42
Voting for maga is voting for Ukraine dismemberment.
Then putin would have supported Trump. You contradict yourself because you are copying here propaganda from manuals created under the control of the KGB or Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 13:55
Voting for maga is voting for Ukraine dismemberment.
Then putin would have supported Trump. You contradict yourself because you are copying here propaganda from manuals created under the control of the KGB or Democrats.

putin is only suporting chaos in the enemy camp. He even convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests. His propaganda is that effective.

Besides, he never said he is "supporting" Biden. He said that Biden is more predictable.
Obviously, trump is like a 10-year-old spoiled child, and that's transparent to anyone but you.

Biden, he’s more experienced, more predictable, he’s a politician of the old formation,” Putin said, when asked which candidate would be better for Russia. “But we will work with any U.S. leader whom the American people trust.”

That made the 10-year-old mad because the one he thought he was getting along great with (as he said multiple times) doesn't like him anymore.

He is that stupid.

But gullible people like you and his cult followers believe that the 10-year-old brat has a secret master plan.
Right, right.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 14:14
Voting for maga is voting for Ukraine dismemberment.
Then putin would have supported Trump. You contradict yourself because you are copying here propaganda from manuals created under the control of the KGB or Democrats.

putin is only suporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainins like you support trump, against their interrest.

Besides, he never said he is "supporting" Biden. He said that Biden is more predictable.
Obviously, trump is like a 10-year-old spoiled child, and that's transparent to anyone but you.

Biden, he’s more experienced, more predictable, he’s a politician of the old formation,” Putin said, when asked which candidate would be better for Russia. “But we will work with any U.S. leader whom the American people trust.”

That made the 10-year-old mad because the one he thought he was getting along great with (as he said multiple times) doesn't like him anymore.

He is that stupid.

But gullible people like you and his cult followers believe that the 10-year-old brat has a secret master plan.
Right, right.
US Democrats no longer know how to get out shame ;D

Putin claims it will be better for Russia if Biden wins US election.
Putin was asked: "Who is better for us [Russians] – Biden or Trump?"
Quote from putin: "Biden. He is a more experienced person, he is predictable, and he is a politician of the old formation."

https://t.me/news_kremlin/3152 (https://t.me/news_kremlin/3152)

But trolls from the US Democratic Party will continue to claim that putin does not support Biden. What putin said is support!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 14:19
Voting for maga is voting for Ukraine dismemberment.
Then putin would have supported Trump. You contradict yourself because you are copying here propaganda from manuals created under the control of the KGB or Democrats.

putin is only suporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainins like you support trump, against their interrest.

Besides, he never said he is "supporting" Biden. He said that Biden is more predictable.
Obviously, trump is like a 10-year-old spoiled child, and that's transparent to anyone but you.

Biden, he’s more experienced, more predictable, he’s a politician of the old formation,” Putin said, when asked which candidate would be better for Russia. “But we will work with any U.S. leader whom the American people trust.”

That made the 10-year-old mad because the one he thought he was getting along great with (as he said multiple times) doesn't like him anymore.

He is that stupid.

But gullible people like you and his cult followers believe that the 10-year-old brat has a secret master plan.
Right, right.
US Democrats no longer know how to get out shame ;D

Putin claims it will be better for Russia if Biden wins US election.
Putin was asked: "Who is better for us [Russians] – Biden or Trump?"
Quote from putin: "Biden. He is a more experienced person, he is predictable, and he is a politician of the old formation."

https://t.me/news_kremlin/3152 (https://t.me/news_kremlin/3152)

But trolls from the US Democratic Party will continue to claim that putin does not support Biden. What putin said is support!

Since "repetitio est mater studiorum", let this sink into your brain:

putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests.

His propaganda is that effective!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 15:32
putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests.
If Biden had pursued a normal policy, there would have been neither putin nor the Russian federation.
Thanks to Biden, putin does whatever he wants.
I gave the facts. Everything else is your opinion or my opinion.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 15:41
putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests.
If Biden had pursued a normal policy, there would have been neither putin nor the Russian federation.
Thanks to Biden, putin does whatever he wants.
I gave the facts. Everything else is your opinion or my opinion.

Wrong.

maga ensured that Ukraine is running out of ammunition by blocking all aid planned by the current administration.

Since repetitio est matter studiorum, let these facts sink into your brain:

putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests

His propaganda is that effective.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 15:46
putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests.
If Biden had pursued a normal policy, there would have been neither putin nor the Russian federation.
Thanks to Biden, putin does whatever he wants.
I gave the facts. Everything else is your opinion or my opinion.

Wrong.

maga ensured that Ukraine is running out of ammunition by blocking all aid planned by the current administration..

Since repetitio est matter studiorum, let these facts sink into your brain:

putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests
In fact, Republicans asked Biden and Democrats to give them a plan to support Ukraine. What's the end goal? Biden has not given this plan and constantly says all sorts of nonsense and blames the Republicans. I constantly wrote that the help that the Democrats give is not effective.

Zero Talent, your screenshot is a lie and propaganda of the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 15:53
putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests.
If Biden had pursued a normal policy, there would have been neither putin nor the Russian federation.
Thanks to Biden, putin does whatever he wants.
I gave the facts. Everything else is your opinion or my opinion.

Wrong.

maga ensured that Ukraine is running out of ammunition by blocking all aid planned by the current administration..

Since repetitio est matter studiorum, let these facts sink into your brain:

putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests
In fact, Republicans asked Biden and Democrats to give them a plan to support Ukraine. What's the end goal? Biden has not given this plan and constantly says all sorts of nonsense and blames the Republicans. I constantly wrote that the help that the Democrats give is not effective.

Zero Talent, your screenshot is a lie and propaganda of the Democrats.

This screenshot below is a fact: maga senators tried to block aid for Ukraine. They did not succeed because an almost unanimous majority of Democrats, together with a few true GOP senators, managed to form a majority large enough to pass the bill.
But then, the maga fool pictured in the above joke refused to put the bill on the lower house agenda and went on vacation.

putin could not be happier than this. His propaganda has worked. That's a fact.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 21, 2024, 16:00
..... I gave the facts. ....

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 16:11
putin could not be happier than this. His propaganda has worked. That's a fact.
Putin was already satisfied with the meager assistance provided by the democrats. With the support that the Democrats have given and want to give, the Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot advance and liberate the territory. So it doesn't matter whether Republicans vote or don't vote. Until Biden shows them the plan and goals and a military plan for the supply of weapons is formed under this, the Republicans will not vote.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 16:36
putin could not be happier than this. His propaganda has worked. That's a fact.
Putin was already satisfied with the meager assistance provided by the democrats. With the support that the Democrats have given and want to give, the Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot advance and liberate the territory. So it doesn't matter whether Republicans vote or don't vote. Until Biden shows them the plan and goals and a military plan for the supply of weapons is formed under this, the Republicans will not vote.

Yes, putin was already satisfied to see the reluctance of Ukraine’s allies to go all in and offer a NATO no-fly zone or to provide jet fighters and long-range missiles directly to Ukraine.

But he cannot be happier than today when ALL support for Ukraine was blocked by maga fools, including the planned support that may have helped Ukraine to repel the ongoing russian offensive.

His propaganda is working.

putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests

Divide et impera has always worked.
His plan is working.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 21, 2024, 18:21
putin could not be happier than this. His propaganda has worked. That's a fact.
Putin was already satisfied with the meager assistance provided by the democrats. With the support that the Democrats have given and want to give, the Ukrainian Armed Forces cannot advance and liberate the territory. So it doesn't matter whether Republicans vote or don't vote. Until Biden shows them the plan and goals and a military plan for the supply of weapons is formed under this, the Republicans will not vote.

Yes, putin was already satisfied to see the reluctance of Ukraine’s allies to go all in and offer a NATO no-fly zone or to provide jet fighters and long-range missiles directly to Ukraine.

But he cannot be happier than today when ALL support for Ukraine was blocked by maga fools, including the planned support that may have helped Ukraine to repel the ongoing russian offensive.

His propaganda is working.

putin is only supporting chaos in the enemy camp. He convinced Ukrainians like you to support trump, against their interests

Divide et impera has always worked.
His plan is working.
Well, about blocking all help, you are no longer telling the truth. In addition to the United States, other countries are also providing assistance to Ukraine. Weapons are supplied by the EU, Great Britain, and Canada. Of course, the EU could supply 2-3 times more, but with a weak Biden, this is a problem.
As for the Republicans, they can be understood, the elections are this year, Biden’s rating needs to be lowered. And their demand to provide a plan and goals for Ukraine is also logical.
Yes, putin is engaged in sabotage, and some experts believe that both Biden and Trump want putin’s support in the elections. This can be seen very clearly in Biden’s policy towards Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 21, 2024, 18:42
1) I don't know, I'm not the Minister of Defense. The deliberations of the decision-makers take place behind closed doors. I find it understandable that in a war situation not all information is made public.
But I know why and I’m writing about it.  >:(

You know nothing, man! Nothing at all!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 21, 2024, 18:45
Well, about blocking all help, you are no longer telling the truth. In addition to the United States, other countries are also providing assistance to Ukraine.

Is that the best you can do?

Rest assured that for anyone able to properly read and think about it, it's obvious that your beloved maga fools have blocked ALL U.S. aid for Ukraine. Only someone with bad intentions (troll?) would take that statement out of its context and imply that I may have said that those beloved maga fools of yours voted to block the aid for Ukraine provided by other countries.

This is preposterous, but typical for someone who has nothing relevant left to say.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 22, 2024, 00:54
… as far as I can see, Ukrainian people hate Polish food - especially cheese spreads! :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 22, 2024, 03:18
… as far as I can see, Ukrainian people hate Polish food - especially cheese spreads! :)
Why?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 22, 2024, 03:22
Well, about blocking all help, you are no longer telling the truth. In addition to the United States, other countries are also providing assistance to Ukraine.

Is that the best you can do?

Rest assured that for anyone able to properly read and think about it, it's obvious that your beloved maga fools have blocked ALL U.S. aid for Ukraine. Only someone with bad intentions (troll?) would take that statement out of its context and imply that I may have said that those beloved maga fools of yours voted to block the aid for Ukraine provided by other countries.

This is preposterous, but typical for someone who has nothing relevant left to say.
This is a trolling stream. You yourself don’t know what you want to say anymore. How much do Democrats pay you for propaganda against Republicans?
Until the Democrats show the plan and the range of weapons for it, the Republicans will not vote. And I am against Ukraine being given something (just to give it) and it is not clear for what purpose.
The Democrats are friends of the Russians, and Biden is a political criminal. And Biden has proven this with his policies, and Biden will be judged by the facts of his criminal and deceitful policies. Your dirt that you pour on the Republicans is just dirt.

You Democrats have nothing against Trump except lies and propaganda. Even putin openly supports Biden, but according to Democrats, Trump is putin’s friend.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 22, 2024, 03:27
1) I don't know, I'm not the Minister of Defense. The deliberations of the decision-makers take place behind closed doors. I find it understandable that in a war situation not all information is made public.
But I know why and I’m writing about it.  >:(

You know nothing, man! Nothing at all!
1. Merkel is a KGB agent and an agent of putin.
2. Scholz is a follower of Merkel.
3. The Germans are friends of the Russians.
4. Germany under the hood of Russian propaganda.
5. The war in Ukraine and soon in the EU is the result of German policy. What about your Nord Stream, did you want to become a Russian gas hub for the entire EU?
6. You don’t know history, go learn it, the history of the 20th century is repeated in the 21st century.

The Poles are already asking the Russians to send troops. Soon the Russians will be in Germany. I am sure that the East Germans will also walk around with flags and ask putin to send troops to Berlin.

When Trump comes to power, he will quickly crush the German parasites and make them pay for the war. Or he will surrender Germany to the Russians and withdraw US troops from Germany.

Germans, where are the shells? Where are the tanks? Where are the missiles?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 22, 2024, 03:43
… as far as I can see, Ukrainian people hate Polish food - especially cheese spreads! :)
Why?
I can not beleive that you have not seen videos where some Ukrainian people walk through supermarkets and throw food from Poland to the ground… and steps on it… do you agree with tgis practice…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 22, 2024, 03:46
… as far as I can see, Ukrainian people hate Polish food - especially cheese spreads! :)
Why?
I can not beleive that you have not seen videos where some Ukrainian people walk through supermarkets and throw food from Poland to the ground… and steps on it… do you agree with tgis practice…?!
… so all those KGB agents and Putin friends provided you weapons and funds, gave shellter to refugees and public support because of…?! I can not understand your logic…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 22, 2024, 04:02
… as far as I can see, Ukrainian people hate Polish food - especially cheese spreads! :)
Why?
I can not beleive that you have not seen videos where some Ukrainian people walk through supermarkets and throw food from Poland to the ground… and steps on it… do you agree with tgis practice…?!
I haven't seen such videos. Give me a link.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 22, 2024, 04:03
… so all those KGB agents and Putin friends provided you weapons and funds, gave shellter to refugees and public support because of…?! I can not understand your logic…
I don’t understand the question, are you asking about the Germans?
If we talk about the Germans, then they are primarily interested in Ukrainians going to Germany and solving their German demographic problems. The Germans gave very few weapons. Germany trades with Russians through third countries.
During the Second World War, the Germans also took Ukrainians to Germany from the territories they occupied. Now the situation is almost identical. It’s just that everything is presented differently, so to speak in a democratic manner.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 22, 2024, 04:28
… and what is your postition about massacres in Volhyniya and Eastern Galicia…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 22, 2024, 05:07
… and what is your postition about massacres in Volhyniya and Eastern Galicia…?!
I think you are trying to bring Russian propaganda into this forum.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 22, 2024, 05:13
… so that did not happened…?! You are constantly trying to mark people as trolls, agents of KGB and Russian propagandists… you have to accept that people have different opinions then yours…

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 22, 2024, 05:22
trucic, No one has seen your opinion on this topic yet.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 22, 2024, 05:27
… happened or not…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 22, 2024, 09:01
Der Bundestag hat die Lieferung von Taurus-Marschflugkörpern an die Ukraine abgelehnt. Ein Antrag der CDU/CSU-Bundestagsfraktion, in dem dieses deutsche Waffensystem explizit genannt wurde, erhielt am Donnerstag keine Mehrheit. Nur 182 Abgeordnete stimmten dafür, 480 dagegen, es gab 5 Enthaltungen.

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/video250217136/Bundestag-lehnt-Unions-Antrag-zu-Taurus-Lieferungen-ab.html (https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/video250217136/Bundestag-lehnt-Unions-Antrag-zu-Taurus-Lieferungen-ab.html)

 >:( >:( >:(

I didn’t expect anything else from the Germans.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 22, 2024, 09:31
… you probably missed this history class iin school… let me show you what I’m talking about…
 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia

Warning: Some may find pictures and facts as disturbing!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 22, 2024, 10:04
 
Until the Democrats show the plan and the range of weapons for it, the Republicans will not vote. And I am against Ukraine being given something (just to give it) and it is not clear for what purpose.

The plan of the current administration was to provide Ukraine with the necessary ammunition to repel the ongoing Russian offensive.
But I guess this plan is not good enough for you, and you prefer NOTHING instead.
You prefer to let russia continue its conquest.
No worries then, your beloved maga friends are making sure that russia's conquest will not stop with Avdiivka, Bakhmut...

What you fail to understand is that the so-called GOP plan you are dreaming about was never put to a vote because it stands no chance in front of the maga majority. In fact, it is more of a political stunt than a plan.

I tracked the voting records for the authors of that document: Michael McCaul, Mike Rogers, and Mike Turner.

I am sorry to inform you that they are rather part of what I call old-school GOP (like Nikki Haley).
They are among a minority of Republicans who voted in favor of the last pro-Ukraine bill (H.R. 5682).
The fact is that a majority of the Republican representatives, the maga faction, voted against them and against the bill.
Again, the bill passed due to Democrats voting unanimously in favor of it, together with a minority of old-school Republicans, which included the three authors mentioned above.

Wake up and stop your masochistic behavior.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 22, 2024, 10:20
--
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 22, 2024, 10:22
Der Bundestag hat die Lieferung von Taurus-Marschflugkörpern an die Ukraine abgelehnt. Ein Antrag der CDU/CSU-Bundestagsfraktion, in dem dieses deutsche Waffensystem explizit genannt wurde, erhielt am Donnerstag keine Mehrheit. Nur 182 Abgeordnete stimmten dafür, 480 dagegen, es gab 5 Enthaltungen.

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/video250217136/Bundestag-lehnt-Unions-Antrag-zu-Taurus-Lieferungen-ab.html (https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/video250217136/Bundestag-lehnt-Unions-Antrag-zu-Taurus-Lieferungen-ab.html)

 >:( >:( >:(

I didn’t expect anything else from the Germans.


Yes, the mood is changing here in Germany.

With your constant bashing of Germany, you've played a small part in that. Congratulations.

Apparently your inner voices have also taken over your last functioning brain cells.

Comparing the deportation of Ukrainians in the Second World War with the current humanitarian reception of Ukrainian refugees is nonsense, simply disgusting and embarrassing.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 22, 2024, 10:44
https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/wladimir-putin-joe-biden-nennt-kremlchef-einen-durchgeknallten-mistkerl-a-853a4a5b-bb5a-4b6c-be39-73b9c5c67e34 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/wladimir-putin-joe-biden-nennt-kremlchef-einen-durchgeknallten-mistkerl-a-853a4a5b-bb5a-4b6c-be39-73b9c5c67e34)

..."The US president used the expression "crazy SOB" to insult Putin. "SOB" is short for "son of a bitch", which can be translated as "*insult removed*" in German.

Biden has already referred to Putin as a "butcher" and "war criminal" in the past."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 22, 2024, 10:47
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Trump-lobt-Putins-Vorgehen-als-genial-article23146752.html (https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Trump-lobt-Putins-Vorgehen-als-genial-article23146752.html)

..."Former US President Donald Trump has caused a stir with his unusual praise for Russian head of state Vladimir Putin's actions against Ukraine. In a podcast, Trump described Putin's announcement to recognize the separatist areas in eastern Ukraine and send soldiers to the region as "brilliant". The Russian president is "clever" and "savvy".

In a podcast with conservative presenter Buck Sexton, the 75-year-old Republican described how he had watched Putin's speech recognizing the self-proclaimed "people's republics" of Luhansk and Donetsk on television the day before. "I said: 'That's brilliant. Putin is declaring a large part of Ukraine independent. Oh, that's wonderful."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 22, 2024, 10:50
https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/trump-nato-ukraine-100.html (https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/trump-nato-ukraine-100.html)

..."The fact that Donald Trump admires Russian President Vladimir Putin and even wants to give him a free hand against NATO countries, that Trump conceded Crimea to Russia because Russian is spoken there - all of this is present in Ukraine."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 22, 2024, 10:53
https://www.merkur.de/politik/trump-putin-insider-details-beziehung-usa-russland-fiona-hill-zr-91562165.html (https://www.merkur.de/politik/trump-putin-insider-details-beziehung-usa-russland-fiona-hill-zr-91562165.html)

... "Moscow/Washington - New details have now come to light about the relationship between former President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. According to the British daily newspaper "The Guardian", Fiona Hill, former Director of Russian and European Affairs at the White House, reports that Putin "had to explain everything" to Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 22, 2024, 15:54
"It's raining outside."
"No, it's not raining. That's Russian propaganda."

"My neighbor's dog has four legs."
"No, you're a victim of Democrat propaganda."

"My doctor says I have the flu."
"That's not true. Your doctor is a KGB agent."

"Trump says it's wonderful that Putin has declared parts of Ukraine independent."
"I see Trump for you Democrats as a red rag for a bull.  ;D ;D ;D Well done Trump!"

"An acquaintance of mine has taken in a family from Ukraine."
"Your friend is a parasite."

"Whales are the largest animals on earth."
"You are a troll."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 22, 2024, 16:37
… he is constantly seing facts that no one else can’t see… I don’t understand if he is doing that with a purpose or simply not seeing and getit… this war is all about mathematics and simply they can not win in long term… western regions of Ukraine are radical and they have lot of potential to be mobilised in army… biut it is not endless resource of people… Polish are looking for their interests and because of their history with Ukraine, reason I mentioned before… people from eastern parts are refugees or with Russians already… Transcarpathia is not motivated to fight and that is why Putin is doing a favor for a favors to Orban… Ukraine becames depopulated and in hunt for men to be mobilised, even from other countries where their people have refugee status…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 22, 2024, 17:59

There will generally be no winners in this war - neither the Ukrainians nor the Russians. This war will only bring suffering on both sides. And the resulting hatred will last for decades, if not centuries. Like between Israel and the Gaza Strip. This is simply poison for the future. And a cause for many more conflicts - regardless of the short-term outcome in both cases.

In any case, future Russian presidents will have to work very hard to heal the wounds that their predecessor left behind with his imperialist ideas. And if Trump becomes president again in the USA, the same will happen to subsequent US presidents.

The greed, the claim to power and the vanity of individuals are dragging entire countries and peoples into a sad future.

And for me, one thing is certain. There is someone in power in China who is very happy to see the two former major blocs tearing each other apart. Because in the future, both will be second class to China.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 06:38
Warning: Some may find pictures and facts as disturbing!
This is all Russian propaganda. Crimes committed by Russians are shifted onto Ukrainians. Ukraine is not currently in the position of a country that can resist propaganda. Therefore, Ukraine will maintain silence. Any word from Ukraine leads to the fact that the Poles begin to work for the Russians.
Read Russian propaganda, support the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 06:47
The plan of the current administration was to provide Ukraine with the necessary ammunition to repel the ongoing Russian offensive.
No, that's a lie.
The Democrats' plan is to be friends with the Russians. Also, the Democrats are not against many Ukrainians and many Russians dying. This will slow down the Russian offensive against EU countries. Ukraine is a potential mobilization resource for the Russian army, so the more Ukrainians die, the better for the democrats. Democrats are just as evil as Russians.
This is true.

But I guess this plan is not good enough for you, and you prefer NOTHING instead.
You prefer to let russia continue its conquest.
No worries then, your beloved maga friends are making sure that russia's conquest will not stop with Avdiivka, Bakhmut...
The Ukrainian Armed Forces left Avdiivka because it was 2/3 surrounded. Surrounded back in 2023, before any votes in Congress. The Ukrainian Armed Forces could not attack either in 2022 or 2023, because the Democrats did not provide the necessary weapons. When an army is on the defensive, the army loses lives and territories are gradually occupied. An army that is on the defensive will always lose. This is an axiom of military affairs.

What you fail to understand is that the so-called GOP plan you are dreaming about was never put to a vote because it stands no chance in front of the maga majority. In fact, it is more of a political stunt than a plan.
Republicans demand a plan from the bas.tard Biden. When Biden gives this plan, then we will talk about the Republicans.

The fact is that a majority of the Republican representatives, the maga faction, voted against them and against the bill.
This is a lie, the maga faction has never been a majority in the Republican Party. You lie and write propaganda. Even those Republicans who vote against are not part of the maga faction.
Yes, Republicans don't want to vote for the Democrats' idiotic policies.

Yes, I believe that if there are no necessary weapons for a war with the Russians, it is better to sign a complete surrender and send the Russian army to the borders of the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 06:53
Comparing the deportation of Ukrainians in the Second World War with the current humanitarian reception of Ukrainian refugees is nonsense, simply disgusting and embarrassing.
You don't like the truth. Nobody likes the truth. You know this as a doctor.
I am sure that Merkel also helped putin to ensure that, with the help of the Russians, as many Ukrainians as possible were sent to Germany.
There is no famine in Ukraine; the war is taking place in a small area. Ukraine has every opportunity to accept refugees from all war zones. People are a resource.
But the Ukrainian government is corrupt. The EU may have blackmailed Ukraine by saying that if Ukraine does not hand over its people, the EU will not provide financial assistance. The EU began accepting refugees on the very first day, which means it was preparing.
The result is the same as during the Second World War.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 23, 2024, 07:32
… Wikipedia, OUP-B and Bandera are and were Russian propaganda…?! So according your sources, what happened to those people during summer 1943…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 08:22
https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/wladimir-putin-joe-biden-nennt-kremlchef-einen-durchgeknallten-mistkerl-a-853a4a5b-bb5a-4b6c-be39-73b9c5c67e34 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/wladimir-putin-joe-biden-nennt-kremlchef-einen-durchgeknallten-mistkerl-a-853a4a5b-bb5a-4b6c-be39-73b9c5c67e34)

..."The US president used the expression "crazy SOB" to insult Putin. "SOB" is short for "son of a bitch", which can be translated as "*insult removed*" in German.

Biden has already referred to Putin as a "butcher" and "war criminal" in the past."
:o :o :o ;D ;D ;D :'( :'( :'( :'(
What else can Putin's friend Biden say? Biden needs to save face and not lose his low ratings. I'm sure Putin allowed him to do this. Now, if Biden had said Putin khuylo!, then we could still pay attention to this Biden.
Nevzorov wrote well on this topic.
https://charter97.org/ru/news/2024/2/23/584827/ (https://charter97.org/ru/news/2024/2/23/584827/)

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Trump-lobt-Putins-Vorgehen-als-genial-article23146752.html (https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Trump-lobt-Putins-Vorgehen-als-genial-article23146752.html)

..."Former US President Donald Trump has caused a stir with his unusual praise for Russian head of state Vladimir Putin's actions against Ukraine. In a podcast, Trump described Putin's announcement to recognize the separatist areas in eastern Ukraine and send soldiers to the region as "brilliant". The Russian president is "clever" and "savvy".
I don't care much about what Trump says or what Biden says. I'm interested in realpolitik. Trump's policies when he was president were good, better than those of Obama and Biden.

https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/trump-nato-ukraine-100.html (https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/trump-nato-ukraine-100.html)

..."The fact that Donald Trump admires Russian President Vladimir Putin and even wants to give him a free hand against NATO countries, that Trump conceded Crimea to Russia because Russian is spoken there - all of this is present in Ukraine."
It's a lie. When the Russians occupied Crimea, the US President was Democrat Obama.

… he is constantly seing facts that no one else can’t see… I don’t understand if he is doing that with a purpose or simply not seeing and getit… this war is all about mathematics and simply they can not win in long term… western regions of Ukraine are radical and they have lot of potential to be mobilised in army… biut it is not endless resource of people… Polish are looking for their interests and because of their history with Ukraine, reason I mentioned before… people from eastern parts are refugees or with Russians already… Transcarpathia is not motivated to fight and that is why Putin is doing a favor for a favors to Orban… Ukraine becames depopulated and in hunt for men to be mobilised, even from other countries where their people have refugee status…
You wrote partly the truth. This is the result of NATO countries not providing the necessary weapons to Ukraine.

And for me, one thing is certain. There is someone in power in China who is very happy to see the two former major blocs tearing each other apart. Because in the future, both will be second class to China.
China is part of the axis of world evil, it finances the Russians and it is beneficial for China to weaken and occupy NATO countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 08:26
… Wikipedia, OUP-B and Bandera are and were Russian propaganda…?! So according your sources, what happened to those people during summer 1943…?!
1. The KGB archives in Moscow are closed, no one has access to them.
2. The world-famous democratic newspaper The New York Times very often publishes ordered anti-Ukrainian articles from the KGB. What can we say about some kind of Wikipedia.
3. I said everything.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 08:36
With your constant bashing of Germany, you've played a small part in that. Congratulations.
;D ;D ;D
Now it's my fault. Wonderful.
I am the one who writes the truth about Germany and the Germans. This truth is confirmed by facts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 08:41
Again.
Republicans believe that Biden's rhetoric about supporting Ukraine "as long as it takes" is a losing strategy. They want the White House to present a plan for victory and give Ukraine the weapons it needs to fight.

According to Republicans, the path to victory for Ukraine:
providing it with critical weapons;
tightening sanctions against the Putin regime;
transfer to Ukraine of 300 billion frozen Russian sovereign assets.
American legislators also analyzed the amount of US assistance to Ukraine, noting that the United States lags behind European countries.
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf (https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf)

Until that ass.hole Biden shows a plan, no one will give Biden money. And it is right.
Republicans have a plan. And the democrats have no plan and do what putin wants.

Fuck Biden! Fuck the Democrats!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 23, 2024, 08:48
… please, you do not need to wait for opening of KGB archives… just look here:
https://enrs.eu/news/volhynian-massacre

https://volhyniamassacre.eu/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 08:57
https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf (https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf)

I recommend everyone to read the full version of this text and plan by following the link. It describes the crimes of Biden and the Democrats.

....
Appeasing dictators won’t work – Republicans need to fight back against this administration’s failing policies vis-à-vis Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuela. Russia’s war of aggression - the largest land invasion in Europe since the Second World War - is eerily reminiscent of Poland of 1939. At the same time, we are seeing rising hostilities in the Indo-Pacific by Chairman Xi. And now we are facing a fullscale war in the Middle East that threatens to destabilize the entire region.

Biden is mishandling the worst war in Europe since World War II. His weakness failed to deter Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, continues to prolong the war, and risks inviting further aggression from America’s adversaries.

Biden did not impose a single significant sanction on Russia as it amassed troops around Ukraine in the lead-up to the invasion, nor did he provide significant military assistance during those critical months. In fact, he rolled-back and failed to enforce Trump-era sanctions on key Kremlin projects such as Nord Stream 2. This weakness forfeited the last opportunity to deter Russia and prevent this costly war.

It is no coincidence that Russia invaded Ukraine a mere six months after Biden’s shameful surrender to the Taliban and humiliating withdrawal from Afghanistan. Putin sensed American weakness and believed he could seize Ukraine without a significant response from the West. The disastrous withdrawal and faulty timelines drained American credibility globally and led to U.S. warnings of an  mpending Russian invasion of Ukraine falling on deaf ears.

It is no coincidence that Russia invaded Ukraine a mere six months after Biden’s shameful surrender to the Taliban and humiliating withdrawal from Afghanistan. Putin sensed American weakness and believed he could seize Ukraine without a significant response from the West.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 08:59
Proposed Plan for Victory in Ukraine

Biden’s mantra of supporting Ukraine “for as long as it takes” is a losingstrategy. Instead, House Republicans believe President Biden shouldpresent a credible plan for victory and arm Ukraine with the weapons itneeds to win as soon as possible.

Since the first day of the war, Biden’s debilitating hesitation to provide critical weapons to Ukraine has delayed a Ukrainian victory. Ukraine needsthe longest-range variant of ATACMS, F-16s, and sufficient quantities ofcluster munitions, artillery, air defenses, and armor to make a differenceon the battlefield. This delay is costing Ukrainian lives and the American taxpayer.

A path to victory for Ukraine will require (1) providing critical weapons
toUkraine at the speed of relevance, (2) tightening sanctions on the Putinregime, and (3) transferring frozen Russian sovereign assets
to Ukraine.This will take congressional Republican pressure, which has been the keyto unlocking every new needed weapon system to Ukraine since the startof the war. The bipartisan and bicameral bill, the REPO Act, will alsorequire the Biden administration lead a coalition of allies to transfer up to$300 billion in frozen Russian sovereign assets to assist Ukraine.

This strategy will ensure Ukraine is able to make the needed advances onthe battlefield to force Putin to the negotiating table. If Ukraine doesn’tnegotiate from a position of strength, there can be no lasting peace.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 23, 2024, 11:35

The fact is that a majority of the Republican representatives, the maga faction, voted against them and against the bill.
This is a lie, the maga faction has never been a majority in the Republican Party. You lie and write propaganda. Even those Republicans who vote against are not part of the maga faction.

Nope. It's a fact. I already showed you how trump's maga has voted both in the Senate and the lower house.

Moreover, if you have a hard time reading and understanding graphs and facts, listen to the old-school GoP representative, Liz Cheney (daughter of the former GOP US Vice President, Dick Cheney):

https://youtu.be/JaBmM8FU1Mk

She is talking about the same thing you refuse to acknowledge because you live in a parallel universe: she is talking about the "putin wing" in the republican party (@3:55), she is talking about trump's maga majority, which is regularly voting anti-Ukraine, and she is concerned that this "putin wing" may take-over the West Wing of White House.

Remember that all this is coming from a prominent GoP representative.

Wake up and smell the coffee man!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 12:28
Zero Talent, you are scaring everyone here with some kind of maga faction and what they supposedly for putin and that these maga want to support russia. This is such nonsense. The most you can provide as evidence is someone else's statements, that's all. You have nothing against the maga faction or the republicans. While the Democrats and Biden have been committing political crimes for 2 years, incl. against the USA, and you are trying to blame the Republicans for everything.
Especially for you, read the Republican plan and their real accusations against the Democrats 5 times, and stop defending the Democrats here.

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf (https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf)

As for that daughter in the video, she doesn’t understand at all what politics is, what’s happening in Ukraine, what Ukraine needs and what the democrats are doing. You Democrats are in a bag of propaganda. Once again, Ukraine needs a plan and weapons to support this plan. Just shells, in some small quantity, will not solve the problem at the front. Therefore, it is better not to receive anything at all from the United States and thereby reduce Biden’s rating, than to receive something meager and increase the rating of this freak Biden.

Now we need to remove democrats from power and judge them. And we will see whether or not to judge the maga faction after the Republicans win and what their policy will be. I don't care what those in maga faction say, I'm only interested in real politics.

That freak Biden had 3 years to pursue normal policies. He mediocrely wasted these years and helped the Russians. And no maga faction bothered him these 3 years. Now the time has come for him to answer and I hope he will be put in the electric chair.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 23, 2024, 12:54
… I think that you will be highly dissapointed with any election results in US… time is not working for Ukraine… like Zelenskyi, you are accusing others for not helping you after billions spent in Ukraine and helping millions of Ukrainian refugees…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 23, 2024, 13:06
Zero Talent, you are scaring everyone here with some kind of maga faction and what they supposedly for putin and that these maga want to support russia. This is such nonsense. The most you can provide as evidence is someone else's statements, that's all. You have nothing against the maga faction or the republicans. While the Democrats and Biden have been committing political crimes for 2 years, incl. against the USA, and you are trying to blame the Republicans for everything.
Especially for you, read the Republican plan and their real accusations against the Democrats 5 times, and stop defending the Democrats here.

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf (https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Proposed-Plan-for-Victory-in-Ukraine.pdf)

As for that daughter in the video, she doesn’t understand at all what politics is, what’s happening in Ukraine, what Ukraine needs and what the democrats are doing. You Democrats are in a bag of propaganda. Once again, Ukraine needs a plan and weapons to support this plan. Just shells, in some small quantity, will not solve the problem at the front. Therefore, it is better not to receive anything at all from the United States and thereby reduce Biden’s rating, than to receive something meager and increase the rating of this freak Biden.

Now we need to remove democrats from power and judge them. And we will see whether or not to judge the maga faction after the Republicans win and what their policy will be. I don't care what those in maga faction say, I'm only interested in real politics.

That freak Biden had 3 years to pursue normal policies. He mediocrely wasted these years and helped the Russians. And no maga faction bothered him these 3 years. Now the time has come for him to answer and I hope he will be put in the electric chair.

I already told you that I tracked the voting records of the 3 authors of that document you are referring to, Michael McCaul, Mike Rogers, and Mike Turner.

https://justfacts.votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/49210/michael-mccaul/22/defense
https://justfacts.votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/5705/mike-rogers/22/defense
https://justfacts.votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/45519/mike-turner/22/defense

While they criticized the current aid levels (as they should), they never voted against Ukraine, like the maga majority.
They are not part of the maga majority who blocked all aid for Ukraine.

They are not part of the "putin wing" of the Republican party, mentioned by Liz Cheney. They are part of the old-school GoP minority who always voted pro-Ukraine (same faction as Nikki Haley).

They simply believe that they can do better than the current administration.
I also believe that more should be done, and I told you that many times already.

But their plan was never voted by the GOP, because the majority of the GOP today, is made of what Liz Cheney called the "putin wing" of the GOP, or trump's maga.

But you burry your head in the sand and refuse to listen and reason.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 13:46
At a February 20 briefing, Pentagon Deputy Press Secretary Sabrina Singh explained the Biden administration's refusal to provide military aid to Ukraine, which is at its disposal.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3682022/deputy-pentagon-press-secretary-sabrina-singh-holds-a-press-briefing/ (https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3682022/deputy-pentagon-press-secretary-sabrina-singh-holds-a-press-briefing/)

A Pentagon spokeswoman confirmed:
1. The Biden administration stopped transferring military aid to Ukraine as of December 27, 2023. It has not transferred it to the victim of aggression for almost two months.
2. The Biden administration is blocking these supplies despite the fact that it has the authority to transfer military aid to Ukraine through the PDA channel in the amount of 4 (actually 4.2) billion dollars.
3. The Biden administration also has funds at its disposal in the amount of $7.9 billion. via the USAI channel, which are intended to be placed as orders for the production of military products for Ukraine, but which have not been placed in two years.
4. Thus, over two years, the Biden administration has not used at least $12.1 billion in military aid to Ukraine as a whole, which is a quarter of the $47.8 billion allocated for these purposes by Congress.
5. The Biden administration cites “the risk of loss of comfort” as the reason for stopping the transfer of military assistance to Ukraine. This term is absent in US legislation, and such justification for non-compliance with US laws by the executive branch is an innovation.
6. The Biden Administration agrees that the additional funding bill voted on in the Senate will ultimately be approved by Congress, allowing funds to replenish military supplies. But even this confidence does not change the administration’s current decision to block military aid to Ukraine, the basis for which is absent in US law.
7. The Biden administration admitted that the price of blocking military assistance to Ukraine was the abandonment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces of the strategic fortified area in Avdiivka, accompanied by significant losses among the armed forces and civilian population of Ukraine.
8. The Biden administration predicts that its continued lack of military assistance to Ukraine will lead to the abandonment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other Ukrainian cities and towns.

Fuck Biden!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 13:52
While they criticized the current aid levels (as they should), they never voted against Ukraine, like the maga majority.
They are not part of the maga majority who blocked all aid for Ukraine.
Is that all the accusations you can bring against the Republican Party?  ;D ;D ;D
Republicans are not voting against Ukraine, they are voting against the idiotic policies of the Democrats and Biden.
So, you agree with the accusations made by these 3 Republicans. Great, then you must understand that Biden is a criminal, and his place is in prison!
You can't elect a criminal to be president of the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 23, 2024, 13:59
While they criticized the current aid levels (as they should), they never voted against Ukraine, like the maga majority.
They are not part of the maga majority who blocked all aid for Ukraine.
Is that all the accusations you can bring against the Republican Party?  ;D ;D ;D
Republicans are not voting against Ukraine, they are voting against the idiotic policies of the Democrats and Biden.
So, you agree with the accusations made by these 3 Republicans. Great, then you must understand that Biden is a criminal, and his place is in prison!

Yes, I agree with the 3 Republicans you mentioned, I agree with Nikie Haley, I agree with Liz Cheney, I agree with Mitt Romney, and I agree with their old-school minority inside the GOP.

I strongly disagree with trump-the-moron and his maga "putin-wing" populist, hyper-nationalist and isolationist majority.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 13:59
If that freak Biden came out and said publicly that he wants to transfer a lot of aircraft, medium- and long-range missiles and tanks to Ukraine, I would start looking at him normally. And so... it’s just a lie.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 14:02
Zero Talent, How much do the democrats pay you to post their propaganda pictures?  ;D ;D ;D

Trump did more for Ukraine in his time than this Biden. Behind Trump is the Republican Party and the US citizens are Republicans. Fuck the Democrats!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 23, 2024, 14:03
Zero Talent, How much do the democrats pay you to post their propaganda pictures?  ;D ;D ;D

Trump did more for Ukraine in his time than this Biden. Behind Trump is the Republican Party and the US citizens are Republicans. Fuck the Democrats!

Enjoy:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 23, 2024, 14:07
I won't be surprised if Trump wins. Democrats are the same as Russians with the same low level of propaganda. I think US citizens have long understood this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 23, 2024, 14:10
I won't be surprised if Trump wins. Democrats are the same as Russians with the same low level of propaganda. I think US citizens have long understood this.

You don't even realize how effective russian propaganda is.
They even convinced you that trump is your saviour.

So sad!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 23, 2024, 14:15
Zero Talent, you are scaring everyone here with some kind of maga faction and what they supposedly for putin and that these maga want to support russia.

Have you now been elected as the forum spokesperson for everyone here? Or was it your thousands of invisible followers?

You're the only one who gets a headwind here and tries to spread fear.

Zero is showering you with comprehensible facts, all of which bounce off you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Roscoe on February 23, 2024, 16:42
I won't be surprised if Trump wins. Democrats are the same as Russians with the same low level of propaganda. I think US citizens have long understood this.

You don't even realize e how effective russian propaganda is.
They even convinced you that trump is your saviour.

So sad!
However I don't mind off-topic discussions, this thread has gone way out of line, and it makes no sense anymore.

"OK Sergey" is the only possible reply to him.

You have to realize he's most probably just one of those many Russian trolls wandering online forums (social media and Reddit is full of them) wanting to undermine anything that's pro democracy or not in line with Russian propaganda.

This thread, despite so many people giving valuable information, willing to have fair discussions or debates, should be closed (sorry Pete! I know you had the right intentions here!)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 23, 2024, 17:27
I won't be surprised if Trump wins. Democrats are the same as Russians with the same low level of propaganda. I think US citizens have long understood this.

You don't even realize e how effective russian propaganda is.
They even convinced you that trump is your saviour.

So sad!
However I don't mind off-topic discussions, this thread has gone way out of line, and it makes no sense anymore.

"OK Sergey" is the only possible reply to him.

You have to realize he's most probably just one of those many Russian trolls wandering online forums (social media and Reddit is full of them) wanting to undermine anything that's pro democracy or not in line with Russian propaganda.

This thread, despite so many people giving valuable information, willing to have fair discussions or debates, should be closed (sorry Pete! I know you had the right intentions here!)


In the course of the whole discussion, a lot of people have participated here, including Russians. I've gained a lot of knowledge here that I wouldn't have gained anywhere else. This thread is not about Stoker, even if he imagines it is. ;)

The thread here is the most active and longest lasting. You probably haven't even followed it in detail.

That's why I find the question as to why you're rattling in here without prior participation and claiming that you want to close the thread much more interesting.

If you are overwhelmed by all this and not interested (what I can understand), there is a simple solution: Don't read here.

That's why I find your first spontaneous contribution here a little inappropriate and patronizing.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 23, 2024, 18:38
I won't be surprised if Trump wins. Democrats are the same as Russians with the same low level of propaganda. I think US citizens have long understood this.

You don't even realize e how effective russian propaganda is.
They even convinced you that trump is your saviour.

So sad!

You have to realize he's most probably just one of those many Russian trolls wandering online forums (social media and Reddit is full of them) wanting to undermine anything that's pro democracy or not in line with Russian propaganda.


I have already made this assumption, but that was a few pages ago.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 23, 2024, 18:58

That freak Biden had 3 years to pursue normal policies. He mediocrely wasted these years and helped the Russians. And no maga faction bothered him these 3 years. Now the time has come for him to answer and I hope he will be put in the electric chair.



If you think that Biden should be in the electric chair because he is not helping Ukraine, then you should be in the electric chair too. Because you are doing nothing - absolutely nothing - to help Ukraine. Do you actually realize that?

On the contrary! You insult those who have supported Ukraine with many, many billions and praise those who don't want to give anything.

And ultimately, you are upsetting all those who pay for your support of Ukraine by insulting them. If all Ukrainians (if you are one at all - which I don't believe) acted like you, Ukraine would have gone under months ago.

You are very good at making demands on others. You personally contribute zero percent to an improvement in Ukraine. You don't fight yourself. And yet you write nasty things about your compatriots who have fled. But whether you are on the ground and not helping, or somewhere else, doesn't matter!

Your very personal hope that Ukraine will get the kind of weapons that can be used to attack Moscow or St. Petersburg - and, if you have your way, destroy them - will not be fulfilled. This remains your Trump dream. An absolute illusion - nothing more.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 24, 2024, 01:12
… he is also very selective in themes - if you say something he doesn’t like or it is not in his favor, then you must be KGB propaganda supporter…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 24, 2024, 03:34
All Russian genetic slaves and orcs celebrate February 23rd as the day of their Na.zi army. In the Russian Empire this is a big holiday.
Ukraine congratulated the Russian Na.zis on this holiday:

1. Defence Forces destroy another A-50 Russian aircraft – video.

(17 Russian orcs on board were also eliminated.)

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/23/7443425/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/23/7443425/)

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/c/6/c697d4f-beriev-a-50,-2011-08-13--1-_690x387.avif)

"Quote: "An A-50 aircraft with the alias Bayan ["Accordion"] has done its time in the sky! Greetings to the occupiers on the [Russian – ed.] Day of the Defender of the Motherland!"
 ;D ;D ;D

2. Russian Su-34 fighter jet crashes in Kherson Oblast – video.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/24/7443460/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/24/7443460/)

3. Explosions rock Russia's Lipetsk, metallurgical plant on fire – video

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/24/7443459/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/24/7443459/)



Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 24, 2024, 03:50
… then, if this is true, you don’t need any additional help…?! It isn’t important who will win on US elections…?! And can still deny what happened to Poles in Eastern Galicia and Volhynia… and why other can not support your war as much as you need…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 24, 2024, 04:48
I won't be surprised if Trump wins. Democrats are the same as Russians with the same low level of propaganda. I think US citizens have long understood this.

You don't even realize how effective russian propaganda is.
They even convinced you that trump is your saviour.

So sad!
Unlike you, I think and analyze. You are proposing to support the weak and ineffective Biden, who has proven his weakness and ineffectiveness many times over. At the same time, you have already branded and put an end to Trump, who has not even become president yet and has not done anything.
I'm ashamed of you Zero Talent, I had a better opinion of you.
I am sure that you are pursuing personal gain from the victory of the Democrats. That's why I ask, what amounts of money are we talking about, how much did you sell yourself to the Democrats for?

PS.
I don't read Russian propaganda and don't have discussions with Russian trolls. My information field has been cleared of Russian lies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 24, 2024, 05:15
Avdiivka, Ukraine. Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers eliminate Russian orcs.  8) 8) 8)

https://youtu.be/N5XIwcYHDXo (https://youtu.be/N5XIwcYHDXo)

You can configure the translation of subtitles into English, but even without translation everything is clear.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 24, 2024, 05:28
Explaining complex things in simple words: Two years of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine
23.02.2024 12:00

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2023_08/thumb_files/630_360_1692810386-322.jpg)

The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine.     

MARKING TWO YEARS OF RUSSIA'S FULL-SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE

● On February 24, 2022, the Kremlin showed its true colours as opposed to the mask of a “peacekeeper,” which it had been using since 2014, talking about the “internal conflict” and the “civil war” in Ukraine.

● From the very beginning, Russia did not intend to implement the Minsk agreements. Simultaneously with the negotiations in the Normandy Format, Moscow was systematically planning a full-scale invasion.

● Russia has become the first country to wage a full-scale aggressive war in Europe in the 21st century.

● Putin's goal is not some territories, but genocide, the destruction of Ukrainian statehood, and the total Russification of Ukrainians. Everything else is propaganda rhetoric aimed at disinformation.

● The aggressor challenged the system of international relations and security, the world based on international law. Russia seeks to destroy democratic alliances for the sake of its own despotic domination.

● Two years ago, Russian troops invaded Ukraine simultaneously from 9 different directions in the north, east, and south. In total, at least 220,000 Russian troops were involved in the invasion.

● Most countries of the world did not believe that Ukraine would survive, giving the Armed Forces a maximum of several days. Some countries even dreamed that Ukraine would fall.

● Thanks to the heroism of warriors and the resilience of society, Ukraine withstood the hardest first weeks of full-scale aggression. Enemy blitzkrieg plans were thwarted.

● Over these two years, Ukraine has achieved a number of significant victories: the expulsion of the occupiers from the north, a counter-offensive in the Slobozhanskyi direction, the liberation of Kherson and the right-bank part of the region. In general, the defence forces of Ukraine liberated more than 50% of the territory occupied after February 24, 2022.

● The defence forces expand control over the sea and methodically destroy the enemy fleet. The war is moving into Russian territory. Russian aviation suffers losses both in the sky and at its airfields.

● The total enemy losses in manpower exceeded 400,000. The occupiers lost more than 6,000 tanks, 12,000 armoured vehicles, almost 10,000 artillery systems, a thousand MLRS, more than 600 air defence systems, almost 700 aircraft and helicopters, 25 ships and boats, 1 submarine.

● After two years of the full-scale war with Russia, the Ukrainian army is the most experienced in Europe, and the only one that has experience of war with the Russian Armed Forces.

● Ukraine is grateful to the international coalition, which has been making a crucial contribution to supporting Ukrainian combat capability for two years.

● Russia is determined to wage a long war of attrition, attracting support from some other authoritarian, aggressive regimes. Democratic states must constantly increase their effectiveness to prevent Ukraine from losing in the long term.

● This war will end either with the defeat of Putinism or the collapse of the existing system of international relations and security. There is no middle ground.

Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3831044-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-two-years-of-russias-fullscale-invasion-of-ukraine.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3831044-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-two-years-of-russias-fullscale-invasion-of-ukraine.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 24, 2024, 06:42
If you think that Biden should be in the electric chair because he is not helping Ukraine
1. Biden's failure to implement the Budapest Memorandum.
2. Minimal support for Ukraine at all stages of the war. Blocking aid from other countries.
3. Policy aimed at preserving Russia.
4. As a result, thousands of dead Ukrainians and occupied Ukrainian territories.

Do you think that in court Biden will not receive a verdict of going to prison and the electric chair?

As for Russian trolls, they do not write any criticism of Germany. Germany is a good trading partner of the Russians and the Germans do not give Ukraine missiles. This applies not only to Germany, but to the EU as a whole.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 24, 2024, 09:43
… Ukraine goes to passive, defensive tactics until 2025 just ro survive year 2024…

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-hang-on-in-2024-to-win-in-2025-putin-zelenskky-russia-counteroffensive/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-war-hang-on-in-2024-to-win-in-2025-putin-zelenskky-russia-counteroffensive/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 24, 2024, 12:24
I won't be surprised if Trump wins. Democrats are the same as Russians with the same low level of propaganda. I think US citizens have long understood this.

You don't even realize how effective russian propaganda is.
They even convinced you that trump is your saviour.

So sad!
Unlike you, I think and analyze. You are proposing to support the weak and ineffective Biden, who has proven his weakness and ineffectiveness many times over. At the same time, you have already branded and put an end to Trump, who has not even become president yet and has not done anything.
I'm ashamed of you Zero Talent, I had a better opinion of you.
I am sure that you are pursuing personal gain from the victory of the Democrats. That's why I ask, what amounts of money are we talking about, how much did you sell yourself to the Democrats for?

PS.
I don't read Russian propaganda and don't have discussions with Russian trolls. My information field has been cleared of Russian lies.

Watch your president address the trump and maga crisis using, as you said, diplomatic language.

Jump to 19:57 in this video:
https://youtu.be/oUSglsQ8owU

He is clearly hoping that trump "will change his mind," which, for everyone but you, only means that trump's mind is not in favor of Ukraine.

But putin's propaganda is so effective that you view him as your savior!

Unbelievable, but true! Stockholm syndrome?

Luckily for Ukraine, forum lunatics are not in charge, but wise people who see things as they are: a victory for trump and maga means Ukraine's dismemberment and even annihilation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 24, 2024, 13:29
Watch your president address the trump and maga crisis using, as you said, diplomatic language.

Jump to 19:57 in this video:
https://youtu.be/oUSglsQ8owU

He is clearly hoping that trump "will change his mind," which, for everyone but you, only means that trump's mind is not in favor of Ukraine.

But putin's propaganda is so effective that you view him as your savior!

Unbelievable, but true! Stockholm syndrome?

Luckily for Ukraine, forum lunatics are not in charge, but wise people who see things as they are: a victory for trump and maga means Ukraine's dismemberment and even annihilation.
I Jump to 19:57 so what? What should I hear there? There is simply diplomatic language regarding Trump’s pre-election populism about ending the war in 24 hours. Trump can generally say whatever he wants, he won’t be judged for his words.

And yes, theoretically, Trump could even end the war in 24 hours. To do this you need:
1. Present a strong sanctions ultimatum to the Russians, EU and China.
2. Give consent to the supply to Ukraine of any weapons that Ukraine requests.
3. Make it clear to the Russians that the US Army can use weapons if necessary.

Trump has already voiced point two, and it was discussed in this thread.

Luckily for Ukraine, forum lunatics are not in charge, but wise people who see things as they are: a victory for trump and maga means Ukraine's dismemberment and even annihilation.
:'( :'( :'(
Even if the US supplies 0 weapons, Ukraine will be able to continue to fight, provided that the EU doubles military aid. And the EU will decide whether it needs the Russian army on its borders or not.

I think it’s some kind of syndrome you have, voting for the coward Biden is disgusting.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 24, 2024, 14:01
… cauldron in Lastochkino near Avdeevka is now closed… Russians are pushing in Pavlograd direction…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 25, 2024, 03:46
https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/wladimir-putin-joe-biden-nennt-kremlchef-einen-durchgeknallten-mistkerl-a-853a4a5b-bb5a-4b6c-be39-73b9c5c67e34 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/wladimir-putin-joe-biden-nennt-kremlchef-einen-durchgeknallten-mistkerl-a-853a4a5b-bb5a-4b6c-be39-73b9c5c67e34)

..."The US president used the expression "crazy SOB" to insult Putin. "SOB" is short for "son of a bitch", which can be translated as "*insult removed*" in German.
As I already wrote, putin was not even offended. This was a speech coordinated with putin to maintain Biden’s rating.

https://youtu.be/FhEv9s4zOs8 (https://youtu.be/FhEv9s4zOs8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 25, 2024, 06:07
… Rabotino is todays central point of interest…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 25, 2024, 06:13
Russian Na.zi Nebenzya speaks at the UN. Openly threatens the destruction of Ukraine and uses the language of an ultimatum to NATO countries.
This is the result of the Democrats' policies. The UN has become an organization for justifying violence. And all the representatives to the UN from different countries think only about the money they are paid for their presence. Now replace this Nebenzya with Hitler and everyone present will also sit and listen silently.

https://youtu.be/TqOhw7ffuP8 (https://youtu.be/TqOhw7ffuP8)

And this has been happening at the UN for 30 years, starting with the Russian occupation of Chechnya. As I understand it, everyone likes this kind of democracy. A democracy that encourages and justifies murder, violence and genocide.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 25, 2024, 07:33
… is there someone who understands this amblems…?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Emblem_of_the_Azov_Battalion.svg
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 25, 2024, 12:40
https://amp.dw.com/en/ukrainian-refugees-in-germany-why-few-work-for-a-living/a-68338226
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 25, 2024, 15:39
https://amp.dw.com/en/ukrainian-refugees-in-germany-why-few-work-for-a-living/a-68338226

A very bad, one-sided article from Deutsche Welle, which in no way reflects German opinion or the situation.

First and foremost, the opinion of a single sociologist is propagated here, whose name I have never heard before.

Moreover, the article is contradictory in itself. At the beginning it is claimed that social benefits are not the reason for the low employment rate because other countries also pay social benefits. A few lines later, it is then reported that social benefits in Germany are the highest in comparison.

I miss any substantive benefit here. Why did you post that?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 25, 2024, 15:48
… one participant in this theme, always resists to other opinions even if there are credible sources on actual themes… he finds enemys where they are not… yes, there is controversy in this text on DW… but some facts are not supporting positions of his conspiracy theory universum…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 25, 2024, 16:00
… one participant in this theme, always resists to other opinions even if there are credible sources on actual themes… he finds enemys where they are not… yes, there is controversy in this text on DW… but some facts are not supporting positions of his conspiracy theory universum…

 :D :D

Cool, Stoker has actually found a friend.

Then explain to me, where I have spread conspiracy theories here?




Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 25, 2024, 16:39
?! How you have considered I was talking about you…?! One you mentioned I was reffering to….
There is one thing that I’m not sure about him - is he just confused or very thoughtful spinner…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on February 25, 2024, 16:57
?! How you have considered I was talking about you…?! One you mentioned I was reffering to….
There is one thing that I’m not sure about him - is he just confused or very thoughtful spinner…

Then a sincere apology from my side.

I had actually judged your post against me and did not understand the accusation in any way.

Things just get a bit heated here sometimes  ;)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 25, 2024, 21:04
👍
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 25, 2024, 22:32
I Jump to 19:57 so what? What should I hear there?

Then, jump to 13:43 in this clip: https://youtu.be/Joz76E3_7ow

If you don't want to listen to this forum, then listen to your compatriot who, unlike you, lives in the real world and knows what Ukraine needs and, most importantly, what it does not need: to be sold out to putin by trump and his maga cult.

Luckily, as we can see in this clip, despite the impression this forum might give, there are many intelligent Ukrainians who know how to distinguish between reality and wishful thinking..
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 26, 2024, 01:15
https://youtube.com/shorts/qIPv6_DeuP0?si=lwcif4_EjlzYV40I
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 26, 2024, 04:11
I Jump to 19:57 so what? What should I hear there?

Then, jump to 13:43 in this clip: https://youtu.be/Joz76E3_7ow

If you don't want to listen to this forum, then listen to your compatriot who, unlike you, lives in the real world and knows what Ukraine needs and, most importantly, what it does not need: to be sold out to putin by trump and his maga cult.

Luckily, as we can see in this clip, despite the impression this forum might give, there are many intelligent Ukrainians who know how to distinguish between reality and wishful thinking..
The Democrats' propaganda is very strong. Almost all media and courts are controlled by Democrats. Of course, there are many people in Ukraine who listen to the Democrats and think that Trump and the Republicans are friends of the Russians. Propaganda always works effectively, that’s why it’s propaganda.
This young guy got into politics in vain.
As for Biden, this bas.tard has been blocking the supply of necessary weapons to Ukraine for 2 years, and everything he even gave happened after a lot of Ukrainians were killed and the territories were occupied. In 2022, Ukraine could de-occupy the south of Ukraine, but the United States did not provide weapons; nothing was supplied under the Lend-Lease signed by Biden. As a result, the Russians have gained a foothold in the South, and it is now much more difficult to kill them there. Biden’s entire policy is a policy aimed at slowly destroying Ukrainians and slowly occupying Ukraine. At the same time, Biden is trading Ukrainian blood on the geopolitical market.
As for Biden's first year in office, this bas.tard did nothing to prevent further Russian invasion of Ukraine, on the contrary, he lifted sanctions on Nord Stream 2 and showed himself to be a coward and friend of the Russians.
And now Trump and the Republicans have to use surgical methods to treat the disease called “Democrats”. Of course, the operation is always painful and these democrats need to be surgically removed from the body of Ukraine.
In any case, even the US assistance that is now being blocked is aimed only at defense, not offensive. If the cowardly EU had not copied Biden's policies and sent its weapons for export to other countries, Ukraine would already have a lot of weapons. But the EU countries are cowardly friends of the Russians. We see this in the voting in the German Bundestag.


Glory to Ukraine!


to be sold out to putin by trump and his maga cult.
:'( :'( :'( ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 26, 2024, 04:21
Zero Talent, I don’t think that you will be able to raise Biden’s rating in this topic at the expense of Ukraine. It’s better to look for other arguments to support it, whether it’s the economy or inflation or Covid or something else.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 26, 2024, 08:54
The US Republican Party is doing everything right. The main task is to remove from power the US democrats, who are cowards and friends of the Russians. There is World War 3 going on, so of course any actions can lead to losses. But leaving the democrats in power is a 100% loss in the war.
Cowardly EU countries must understand that Russian troops do not threaten the United States, but threaten the EU. Therefore, either the EU will finally begin to supply Ukraine with the necessary weapons and in the required quantities, or Russian orcs will soon kill EU citizens as well.
So far I see that only the President of the Czech Republic is trying to do something, while the Euro-parasites do not want to allocate money. As a result, Canada agreed to finance.

What Ukraine needs from the United States is not even weapons, but a good and correct policy against russia, China, North Korea, Iran and Belarus. And the EU countries also have weapons and aircraft, and we need to force the EU to give these weapons to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 26, 2024, 09:19
….so, all you need is to turn whole world against your real and imaginative enemies…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 26, 2024, 11:05
.. like I said, it is time to stop this war asap… endless spiral of sending weapons, brings more killings… in modern wars, nothing is protected from above…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 26, 2024, 11:21
This young guy got into politics in vain.

Right, right, right...

All Ukrainians who see trump and his maga cult for the danger they are (including the Ukrainian president) are manipulated by a worldwide media conspiracy.
Only our stocker, Tucker Carlson, and a few other "illuminati" can see through it...

Right, right, right...

Actually, I recommend to all those interested in having objective firsthand information on the Ukraine struggle for independence and territorial integrity to follow this guy.

He is a former pilot who knows his stuff, who is using facts and verified information before expressing his opinions, as opposed to our stocker who is regularly pulling facts out of his a@@ and doesn’t even realize how much he is being manipulated by propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 26, 2024, 11:25
All Ukrainians who see trump and his maga cult for the danger they are manipulated by a worldwide media conspiracy.
+100

But I will tell you that a lot of Ukrainians have a bad attitude towards US Democrats.
In this thread I also provided a link to a journalist who asked angry questions to the same Sullivan.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 26, 2024, 11:32
All Ukrainians who see trump and his maga cult for the danger they are manipulated by a worldwide media conspiracy.
+100

Yes, that's also what I said:

"Only our stocker, Tucker Carlson, and a few other "illuminati" can see through it..."

PS. I forgot to add putin and trump to the list of "illuminati", sorry!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 26, 2024, 12:37
All Ukrainians who see trump and his maga cult for the danger they are manipulated by a worldwide media conspiracy.
+100

Yes, that's also what I said:

"Only our stocker, Tucker Carlson, and a few other "illuminati" can see through it..."

PS. I forgot to add putin and trump to the list of "illuminati", sorry!
Re-read what I answered to you. I wrote to you that a lot of Ukrainians and Ukrainian military experts have a bad attitude towards US Democrats. Therefore, I am not the only one who is “illuminati”, as you put it.

Yes, Ukraine has a shortage of weapons, but this shortage has been going on for 2 years. While the EU and Euro-parasites, seeing that Ukraine needs weapons, do not provide them. These Euro-parasites help Biden blame the Republicans for everything.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 26, 2024, 12:42
I don’t understand why the EU decided that the United States should give weapons to Ukraine? I have already written that the threat from the occupation of Ukraine concerns only the EU. If the EU does not provide weapons, then the EU is helping the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 26, 2024, 14:59
Therefore, I am not the only one who is “illuminati”, as you put it.

Re-read what I wrote. I never said you are the only "Illuminati."

You have a few on your side: putin, Tucker Carlson, trump, his maga cultists...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 26, 2024, 15:05
You have a few on your side: putin, Tucker Carlson, trump, and his maga cultists...
Putin publicly supported Biden. You deny the facts. This is how Democratic propaganda works.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 26, 2024, 17:29
All Ukrainians who see trump and his maga cult for the danger they are manipulated by a worldwide media conspiracy.
+100

Yes, that's also what I said:

"Only our stocker, Tucker Carlson, and a few other "illuminati" can see through it..."

PS. I forgot to add putin and trump to the list of "illuminati", sorry!


Yes, Ukraine has a shortage of weapons, but this shortage has been going on for 2 years. While the EU and Euro-parasites, seeing that Ukraine needs weapons, do not provide them. These Euro-parasites help Biden blame the Republicans for everything.



https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514 (https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on February 26, 2024, 17:35
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1367857/umfrage/militaerische-unterstuetzungsleistungen-der-usa-an-die-ukraine/

To see more: > "Nächste"

which means next page.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 26, 2024, 19:58
You have a few on your side: putin, Tucker Carlson, trump, and his maga cultists...
Putin publicly supported Biden. You deny the facts. This is how Democratic propaganda works.

putin is messing with your head, doing a great job of sowing discord among allies.

Allow me to remind you that you have consistently emphasized that he is a KGB agent who should never be trusted.
I believe most of us concur with that assessment.

It is noteworthy that now you have abruptly gained confidence in the veracity of his statements.

Unfortunately, you have become too indoctrinated to perceive his message with clarity, falling victim to his highly effective propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on February 26, 2024, 20:08
You have a few on your side: putin, Tucker Carlson, trump, and his maga cultists...
Putin publicly supported Biden. You deny the facts. This is how Democratic propaganda works.

As most of the things that Putin says are lies, that is how you should know that Biden is worse for Putin and better for Ukraine, *. Or do you suddenly trust Putin?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on February 26, 2024, 20:13
Stoker2014, I would like to ask you to stop antagonizing Ukraine's allies and stop posting Trumpist delusions and nonsenses, or I will consider you a Russian troll. Perhaps you spend a part of your life in a parallel universe where Trump is decent and on the side of Ukraine. But in this universe, he is a Putin's pawn, for crying out loud.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/26/7443828/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/26/7443828/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 27, 2024, 04:42
You have a few on your side: putin, Tucker Carlson, trump, and his maga cultists...
Putin publicly supported Biden. You deny the facts. This is how Democratic propaganda works.

putin is messing with your head, doing a great job of sowing discord among allies.

Allow me to remind you that you have consistently emphasized that he is a KGB agent who should never be trusted.
I believe most of us concur with that assessment.

It is noteworthy that now you have abruptly gained confidence in the veracity of his statements.

Unfortunately, you have become too indoctrinated to perceive his message with clarity, falling victim to his highly effective propaganda.
Yes, putin is a KGB agent. Yes, he does any actions for some purpose. But these are my words, not yours.
You all here always directly perceive what Biden, Trump and putin say. If putin supported Trump, you Zero Talent would be the first to shout that Trump is the friend and hope of the Russians.
Now this is what we have. We have already seen two public speeches by putin, when he twice supports Biden and even says that he supports him in the US elections. This is a signal for all Russians in the USA and for all Russian trolls to support Biden. This is exactly how putin communicates with the troll army. If you have evidence that Russian trolls are now supporting Trump, publish that evidence.
Also, Biden, immediately after putin’s first statement, began calling him funny names, which also raises questions for Biden. Isn't Biden a fool?
As for me, I have been seeing Biden’s cowardly and pro-Russian policies for 3 years now, so I don’t care what putin says, I believe that Biden is a friend of the Russians. Trump is an enemy of the Russians, and he proved it with his policies when he was president.
Therefore, when I refer to facts, and this is putin’s support for Biden, I do this specifically for the sect called “US Democrats.” You Zero Talent are not an independent voter, you are a Democrat troll. These are also facts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 27, 2024, 04:49
All Ukrainians who see trump and his maga cult for the danger they are manipulated by a worldwide media conspiracy.
+100

Yes, that's also what I said:

"Only our stocker, Tucker Carlson, and a few other "illuminati" can see through it..."

PS. I forgot to add putin and trump to the list of "illuminati", sorry!
Yes, Ukraine has a shortage of weapons, but this shortage has been going on for 2 years. While the EU and Euro-parasites, seeing that Ukraine needs weapons, do not provide them. These Euro-parasites help Biden blame the Republicans for everything.
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514 (https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/schwerpunkte/krieg-in-der-ukraine/lieferungen-ukraine-2054514)
https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1367857/umfrage/militaerische-unterstuetzungsleistungen-der-usa-an-die-ukraine/ (https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/1367857/umfrage/militaerische-unterstuetzungsleistungen-der-usa-an-die-ukraine/)
To see more: > "Nächste"
which means next page.

This is all minuscule. In truth, this is practically 0. All this is enough for several weeks of defense, I’m not even talking about the offensive. If Germany also plans to meet the Russians with so many weapons, I give you 100% that Germany will be occupied in 5-7 days.
Find out why Ukraine needs Taurus missiles? If you don’t provide these missiles, then you must provide 10 times more shells and tanks. And I wrote not only about Germany, I wrote about all the parasitic countries that are part of the EU. Yes, among the parasitic countries, you give the most, but this is not enough. You see that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are retreating!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 27, 2024, 04:51
As most of the things that Putin says are lies, that is how you should know that Biden is worse for Putin and better for Ukraine, *. Or do you suddenly trust Putin?
The question of trust is not relevant.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 27, 2024, 04:53
Stoker2014, I would like to ask you to stop antagonizing Ukraine's allies and stop posting Trumpist delusions and nonsenses, or I will consider you a Russian troll. Perhaps you spend a part of your life in a parallel universe where Trump is decent and on the side of Ukraine. But in this universe, he is a Putin's pawn, for crying out loud.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/26/7443828/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/26/7443828/)
:'( :'( :'(
Yes, allies in the EU are allies who are doing everything to ensure that Ukraine is occupied.
As for Zelensky’s speech, I already said, he speaks diplomatic language and now he is working with the democrats, he is forced to work with them. So he does what the Democrats want him to do. Trump understands this well and Trump has already told Zelensky about this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 27, 2024, 05:18
… Bram Stoker fantasies are endless, there is so much confusion who is his real enemy…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 27, 2024, 07:45
The mere fact that the Russians launched a full-scale attack on Ukraine in 2022 already speaks of Biden’s weak and pro-Russian policy. Everyone knew about the offensive 10 months in advance, and 3 months later even the date was already known. But what was that bas.tard Biden doing? But he didn’t do anything. He sang his songs about democracy, about how he would introduce some kind of sanctions against the Russians. Translated from geopolitical language, he told putin, attack Ukraine, the United States will not interfere. At the time of the attack, Ukraine did not have weapons, and the fact that Ukraine survived went against the plans of the Democrats and Russians. Ukraine survived in the first days, then weeks, and then months went by. And only months later did the bas.tard Biden begin to supply Ukraine with some kind of understandable military aid (in small quantities). Biden would not have done this either, but he was afraid of the anger of US citizens.
In May 2021, when the Russians began preparing for an attack on Ukraine, ass.hole Biden lifted sanctions on Nord Stream 2. This meant that Biden helped the Russians complete a gas pipeline to Germany and made it clear that when the Russians occupy and destroy Ukraine, they will be able to supply gas to the EU bypassing Ukraine.
And will anyone here still tell me that Biden is not putin’s friend?

Fuck the Democrats! Fuck Biden!
Biden's place in the electric chair.

PS.
I will remind everyone that Trump imposed sanctions against Nord Stream 2.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 27, 2024, 08:33
You have a few on your side: putin, Tucker Carlson, trump, and his maga cultists...
Putin publicly supported Biden. You deny the facts. This is how Democratic propaganda works.

putin is messing with your head, doing a great job of sowing discord among allies.

Allow me to remind you that you have consistently emphasized that he is a KGB agent who should never be trusted.
I believe most of us concur with that assessment.

It is noteworthy that now you have abruptly gained confidence in the veracity of his statements.

Unfortunately, you have become too indoctrinated to perceive his message with clarity, falling victim to his highly effective propaganda.
Yes, putin is a KGB agent. Yes, he does any actions for some purpose. But these are my words, not yours.
You all here always directly perceive what Biden, Trump and putin say. If putin supported Trump, you Zero Talent would be the first to shout that Trump is the friend and hope of the Russians.
Now this is what we have. We have already seen two public speeches by putin, when he twice supports Biden and even says that he supports him in the US elections. This is a signal for all Russians in the USA and for all Russian trolls to support Biden. This is exactly how putin communicates with the troll army. If you have evidence that Russian trolls are now supporting Trump, publish that evidence.
Also, Biden, immediately after putin’s first statement, began calling him funny names, which also raises questions for Biden. Isn't Biden a fool?
As for me, I have been seeing Biden’s cowardly and pro-Russian policies for 3 years now, so I don’t care what putin says, I believe that Biden is a friend of the Russians. Trump is an enemy of the Russians, and he proved it with his policies when he was president.
Therefore, when I refer to facts, and this is putin’s support for Biden, I do this specifically for the sect called “US Democrats.” You Zero Talent are not an independent voter, you are a Democrat troll. These are also facts.

No, unlike you, I never put any weight on what putin says. You can safely assume that he is never telling the truth.

trump, on the other hand, is a spoiled 10-year-old who says the first things that cross his little brain.
When he admired putin, Kim Jong-un he meant it.

When he says he will make peace with putin in 24 hours, he truly intends to do so by giving putin what he wants: lifting U.S. hands off Ukraine and handing it over on a silver platter. He will then claim that he prevented World War III.

He is not a strategic thinker or a mastermind. He is a moron, and everyone (including a pro Ukraine GOP minority) can see it, except for you and his maga cult.

PS. Everyone knows that putin was a KGB agent, not only you.
Like presidents, ministers, and ambassadors, KGB agents keep their title for life.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 27, 2024, 09:24
When he says he will make peace with putin in 24 hours, he truly intends to do so by giving putin what he wants: lifting U.S. hands off Ukraine and handing it over on a silver platter. He will then claim that he prevented World War III.

He is not a strategic thinker or a mastermind. He is a moron, and everyone (including a pro Ukraine GOP minority) can see it, except for you and his maga cult.
These are your fantasies that are not supported by facts. You either came up with all this yourself, or read it in the propaganda of the Democrats.
I am here writing the facts about Biden's criminal policies. You write only your fantasies. I hope that's why Trump wins.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on February 27, 2024, 09:35
When he says he will make peace with putin in 24 hours, he truly intends to do so by giving putin what he wants: lifting U.S. hands off Ukraine and handing it over on a silver platter. He will then claim that he prevented World War III.

He is not a strategic thinker or a mastermind. He is a moron, and everyone (including a pro Ukraine GOP minority) can see it, except for you and his maga cult.
I hope that's why Trump wins.
That's what putin wants you to want. 🙄
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 27, 2024, 09:40
he truly intends to do so by giving putin what he wants: lifting U.S. hands off Ukraine and handing it over on a silver platter. He will then claim that he prevented World War III.
This is exactly what Biden has been doing for 3 years. Before Biden, Democrat Obama did this. Democrats are criminals!
As I already wrote, in his first year in office, Biden did not impose any sanctions against the Russians; Biden lifted sanctions on Nord Stream 2. Biden did not give weapons to Ukraine when it was already known that the Russians would attack. Biden did not give Ukraine weapons in the first days and first months of the war. Biden did not provide the necessary weapons and in the required quantity during 2 years of war. He explains all this by saying that suddenly there would be World War III (which has already been going on for 10 years).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 27, 2024, 10:31
… after Lastochkine, Severnoe have fallen…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 28, 2024, 03:46
I recommend watching these documentary videos. They show what is happening at the front in Ukraine. These videos will never be shown on democratic TV channels, and many people have a very poor idea of what is happening.

1. The work of the elite detachment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to eliminate Russian orcs.

https://youtu.be/3-JUH81VNvI (https://youtu.be/3-JUH81VNvI)

2. Avdiivka surrounded, Ukraine.
Shooting the area around, identifying firing points and liquidation Russians from the windows of the building is a 24-hour task Armed Forces of Ukraine.

https://youtu.be/p1AZYUsbhMc (https://youtu.be/p1AZYUsbhMc)

You can customize the translation of subtitles.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 28, 2024, 06:27
The purpose of the occupation of Ukraine is to prepare a strategic springboard for russia’s attack on the EU countries. Ukraine is also a huge mobilization resource.
The US Democrats and their Presidents Obama and Biden pursue a neutral policy and do not interfere with the Russians in achieving their plans. This includes a weak sanctions policy and failure to provide Ukraine with the necessary weapons in the required quantity.
In EU countries, people have a poor understanding of what is happening in Ukraine and why.
If Biden wins the election, the occupation of Ukraine and the killing of Ukrainians will continue. Russian orcs will come closer and closer to the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 28, 2024, 06:55
… there is no worry for EU until you are killing ‘orcs’ - half a million are already listed, just keep doing it… hopes for Taurus, F16s… and maybe aircraft carriers will be on your wish list some day…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 28, 2024, 08:36
… there is no worry for EU until you are killing ‘orcs’
+100
Most EU citizens don't even know what's going on in Ukraine and that they are the Russians' next target. The policy of the Democrats is a policy of destroying Ukrainians. Democrats either think that at the cost of their lives, Ukrainians will eliminate all Russians. But this is a stupid tactic, it is not realistic. Ukrainians can only liquidate Russians on the territory of Ukraine and de-occupy the territories, but this is possible if they have weapons, which Biden has never given and does not intend to give.
Or the Democrats, as friends of the Russians, do not prevent russia from expanding the Russian empire through the occupation of other countries. This option is the most logical.
That's why I always write that Democrats are political criminals, and the Democratic Party should be banned.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 28, 2024, 09:14
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/14/world/asia/ukraine-art-russia-steal.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/14/world/asia/ukraine-art-russia-steal.html)

As Russians Steal Ukraine’s Art, They Attack Its Identity, Too

Russian forces have looted tens of thousands of pieces, including avant-garde oil paintings and Scythian gold. Experts say it is the biggest art heist since the Na.zis in World War II, intended to strip Ukraine of its cultural heritage.

KHERSON, Ukraine — One morning in late October, Russian forces blocked off a street in downtown Kherson and surrounded a graceful old building with dozens of soldiers.

Five large trucks pulled up. So did a line of military vehicles, ferrying Russian agents who filed in through several doors. It was a carefully planned, highly organized, military-style assault — on an art museum.

Over the next four days, the Kherson Regional Art Museum was cleaned out, witnesses said, with Russian forces “bustling about like insects,” porters wheeling out thousands of paintings, soldiers hastily wrapping them in sheets, art experts barking out orders and packing material flying everywhere.

“They were loading such masterpieces, which there are no more in the world, as if they were garbage,” said the museum’s longtime director, Alina Dotsenko, who recently returned from exile, recounting what employees and witnesses had told her.

Kherson. Mariupol. Melitopol. Kakhovsky. Museums of art, history and antiquities.

As Russia has ravaged Ukraine with deadly missile strikes and brutal atrocities on civilians, it has also looted the nation’s cultural institutions of some of the most important and intensely protected contributions of Ukraine and its forebears going back thousands of years.

International art experts say the plundering may be the single biggest collective art heist since the Na.zis pillaged Europe in World War II.

In Kherson, in Ukraine’s south, Ukrainian prosecutors and museum administrators say the Russians stole more than 15,000 pieces of fine art and one-of-a-kind artifacts. They dragged bronze statues from parks, lifted books from a riverside scientific library, boxed up the crumbling, 200-year-old bones of Grigory Potemkin, Catherine the Great’s lover, and even stole a raccoon from the zoo, leaving behind a trail of vacant cages, empty pedestals and smashed glass.
....

I recommend reading the article in full.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 28, 2024, 09:30
… like I said, you have to ask for aicraft carriers and maybe nuclear submarines… if they don’t want to give you Taurus and F16s, ask for this… those are simple systems, you just have to find some ‘orcs’ and press the button… usually, it’ the red one…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 28, 2024, 12:22
https://news.yahoo.com/poland-threatens-expand-embargo-ukrainian-174652935.html (https://news.yahoo.com/poland-threatens-expand-embargo-ukrainian-174652935.html)

https://www.rferl.org/amp/poland-pm-ban-ukrainian-food-importers-farmers-protest/32837714.html (https://www.rferl.org/amp/poland-pm-ban-ukrainian-food-importers-farmers-protest/32837714.html)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 29, 2024, 06:30
Ukraine's Air Force downs another Russian Su-34 jet, the 11th aircraft downed in February.
 ;D ;D ;D

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/29/7444258/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/29/7444258/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on February 29, 2024, 06:35
Bild newspaper published Russia's "attack plan" on Germany.

The German government has delivered a "Civil Defence Risk Analysis" report to the Bundestag, outlining one of the likely scenarios of a possible conflict between an unnamed aggressor and NATO, based on lessons learned from Russia's full-scale war against Ukraine.

According to the report, Russia's war against Ukraine has confirmed that modern warfare combines classical and unconventional operations, the latter including cyberattacks, disinformation campaigns and sabotage.

"An aggressor attack – hybrid and/or using the full arsenal of modern armed forces in all dimensions (land, air/space, sea, cyber and information) on NATO territory – is therefore a likely scenario," the report says.

The report’s authors then outline one of the scenarios for such an attack, emphasising that it is only one of the possible scenarios and not specifying what the other scenarios envisage. This scenario divides the conflict into four phases.

Phase I lasts for several years with varying degrees of intensity and involves hybrid influence by the aggressor: espionage, cyberattacks, sabotage, and attacks on vital and defence facilities and critical infrastructure. A key feature of this phase is that the hybrid influence is conducted covertly and cannot be immediately linked to the aggressor.

Phase II lasts several months and involves the deployment of aggressor forces on NATO's eastern borders – and the deployment of NATO deterrence forces in response. The hybrid influence continues, but becomes more intense and less covert.

Phase III, which lasts for at least one year, involves open military aggression against NATO territory – selective attacks using conventional and non-conventional means, including against targets in Germany, as well as possible disruption of satellites in space.

Finally, during Phase IV, the aggressor's troops break through NATO defensive lines into Germany. A full-scale armed confrontation in space is also envisaged. The scenario assumes that this phase ends with "a ceasefire agreement no earlier than a few months later".
In the report, the German government proposes that this scenario should be used as the basis for building a civil defence concept, and that the relevant agencies can model further "sub-scenarios" for more effective defence.

It was previously reported that the Bundeswehr is drawing up a new comprehensive operational defence plan for the first time since the end of the Cold War, taking into account the lessons learned from Russia's full-scale aggression against Ukraine. The German defence plan is classified as "top secret", runs to hundreds of pages, and is expected to be completed by the end of March.

In recent weeks, a number of European NATO countries have been warning of the risk of Russian aggression in the near future. German Defence Minister Boris Pistorius said in January that the Alliance should prepare for a Russian attack on a NATO country within 5-8 years.
________

The longer Scholz (a follower of KGB agent Merkel) does not transfer weapons to Ukraine, the faster the Russians will occupy Germany. Continue to trade with the Russians !!!.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on February 29, 2024, 06:42
Ukrainian saboteurs were destroyed while trying to land an amphibious assault force on the banks of the Tendrovskaya Spit…

https://socialbites.ca/politics/507316.html

… this is non-graphical report, all other ate simply a horror…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 01, 2024, 08:59
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-29/biden-age-worries-swing-state-voters-trump-seen-as-dangerous-poll-shows?embedded-checkout=true (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-29/biden-age-worries-swing-state-voters-trump-seen-as-dangerous-poll-shows?embedded-checkout=true)

Trump leads Biden in seven key states, with perceptions of an improving national economy failing to translate into a significant increase in support for the incumbent.

Swing-state voters across every major demographic group describe President Joe Biden as too old, a Bloomberg News/Morning Consult poll has found, showing that concerns about his age have permeated even the most reliable constituencies of the Democratic party.

Overall, eight in 10 voters in crucial states said Biden was too old, when asked to think about the frontrunners in the 2024 election. The survey was taken after a special prosecutor’s report that cast the 81-year-old president as an “elderly man with a poor memory.”

Biden continues to trail Trump in all seven states most likely to decide the election, with swing-state voters’ perceptions of an improving national economy failing to translate into a significant increase in support for the incumbent. The poll of 4,955 voters was conducted Feb. 12 to Feb. 20 and has a margin of error of 1 percentage point.

If the November 2024 election for US president were being held today, and Democrat Joe Biden and Republican Donald Trump were on the ballot, for whom would you vote?
Share of respondents who said:

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/5/d/5d15f44-df86c05-1-original.avif)

In total, in these seven states, 48% of voters said they would support Trump, while 43% said they would support Biden.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 01, 2024, 09:56
Republicans Who Like Putin

Large parts of the Republican Party now treat Vladimir Putin as if he were an ideological ally. Putin, by contrast, continues to treat the U.S. as an enemy.

This combination is clearly unusual and sometimes confusing. It does not appear to stem from any compromising information that Putin has about Donald Trump, despite years of such claims from Democrats. Instead, Trump and many other Republicans seem to feel ideological sympathies with Putin’s version of right-wing authoritarian nationalism. They see the world dividing between a liberal left and an illiberal right, with both themselves and Putin — along with Viktor Orban of Hungary and some other world leaders — in the second category.

Whatever the explanation, the situation threatens decades of bipartisan consensus about U.S. national security.

Already, House Republicans have blocked further aid to Ukraine — a democracy and U.S. ally that Putin invaded. Without the aid, military experts say Russia will probably be able to take over more of Ukraine than it now holds.

If Trump wins a second term, he may go further. He has suggested that he might abandon the U.S. commitment to NATO, an alliance that exists to contain Russia and that Putin loathes. He recently invited Russia to “to do whatever . they want” to NATO countries that don’t spend enough on their own defense. (Near the end of his first term, he tried to pull American troops out of Germany, but President Biden rescinded the decision.)

Trump has also avoided criticizing Putin for the mysterious death this month of his most prominent domestic critic, Aleksei Navalny, and has repeatedly praised Putin as a strong and smart leader. In a town hall last year, Trump refused to say whether he wanted Ukraine or Russia to win the war.

There are some caveats worth mentioning. Some skepticism about how much money the U.S. should send to Ukraine stems from practical questions about the war’s endgame. It’s also true that some prominent Republicans, especially in the Senate, are horrified by their party’s pro-Russian drift and are lobbying the House to pass Ukraine aid. “If your position is being cheered by Vladimir Putin, it’s time to reconsider your position,” Senator Mitt Romney of Utah said last month.

But the Republican fascination with Putin and Russia is real. The Putin-friendly faction of the party is ascendant, while some of his biggest critics, like Mitch McConnell, who announced this week that he would step down this year as the Republican Senate leader, will soon retire.

In the rest of today’s newsletter, we’ll walk through the evidence of this shift.

Ukraine aid

The Senate has passed an additional $60 billion in aid to Ukraine, with both Republican and Democratic support. But the House, which Republicans control, has so far refused to pass that bill. House Speaker Mike Johnson, who is close to Trump, has not allowed a vote on the bill even though it would likely pass if he did.

A few Republicans have gone so far as speak about Ukraine and its president, Volodymyr Zelensky, in ways that mimic Russian propaganda. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene has accused Ukraine of having “a Nazi army,” echoing language Putin used to justify the invasion.

Military experts say that if Ukraine does not receive more U.S. aid, it could begin losing the war in the second half of this year. “Not since the first chaotic months of the invasion, when Russian troops poured across the borders from every direction and the country rose up en masse to resist, has Ukraine faced such a precarious moment,” wrote our colleagues Andrew Kramer and Marc Santora, who have been reporting from Ukraine.

Alexander Smirnov
House Republicans hoping to impeach President Biden have repeatedly promoted information that appears to have been based partly on Russian disinformation. One example: The Republicans cited an F.B.I. document in which an informant accused Biden and his son, Hunter, of taking $5 million bribes from the owner of Burisma, a Ukrainian gas company.

But federal prosecutors have now accused the informant, Alexander Smirnov, of fabricating the allegation to damage Biden’s 2020 presidential campaign. Smirnov has told the F.B.I. that people linked to Russian intelligence passed him information about Hunter Biden.

A federal judge has ordered Smirnov detained and called him a flight risk.

Tucker Carlson
Tucker Carlson is not a Republican Party official, but he is an influential Trump supporter, and Carlson has often echoed Russian propaganda. At least once, he went so far as to say he hoped Russia would win its war against Ukraine.

Last month, Carlson aired a two-hour interview with Putin in which Putin made false claims about Ukraine, Zelensky and Western leaders with little pushback from Carlson. In a separate video recorded inside a Russian grocery store, Carlson suggested life in Russia was better than in the U.S.

Republican voters
The shift in elite Republican opinion toward Russia and away from Ukraine has influenced public opinion.

Shortly after Russia invaded, about three-quarters of Republicans favored giving Ukraine military and economic aid, according to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. Now, only about half do.

Republican voters are also less likely to hold favorable views of Zelensky. In one poll, most Trump-aligned Republicans even partly blamed him for the war. Republicans also support NATO at lower rates than Democrats and independents, a shift from the 1980s.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 01, 2024, 10:17
Republicans Who Like Putin
....
This entire text is propaganda and manipulation by cowardly democrats. It's not surprising that you didn't even indicate its source (although this is not very important).
However, I was right, US citizens do not want to vote for the cowardly, old and ineffective Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 01, 2024, 10:31
Republicans Who Like Putin
....
This entire text is propaganda and manipulation by cowardly democrats. It's not surprising that you didn't even indicate its source (although this is not very important).
However, I was right, US citizens do not want to vote for the cowardly, old and ineffective Biden.

It's an article published a few hours ago in the New York Times. I copy pasted it since it is behind a paywall. But that's not relevant.

What's important is that it summarizes points I explained to you during the past 6 months or so (except for the Smirnov crap, I don't care about).

You refuse to acknowledge it despite evidence screaming in your face: trump and maga are very bad news for Ukraine. You are cheering for Ukraine's dismemberment!  :(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 01, 2024, 10:51
Republicans Who Like Putin
....
This entire text is propaganda and manipulation by cowardly democrats. It's not surprising that you didn't even indicate its source (although this is not very important).
However, I was right, US citizens do not want to vote for the cowardly, old and ineffective Biden.

It's an article published a few hours ago in the New York Times. I copy pasted it since it is behind a paywall. But that's not relevant.

What's important is that it summarizes points I explained to you during the past 6 months or so (except for the Smirnov crap, I don't care about).

You refuse to acknowledge it despite evidence screaming in your face: trump and maga are very bad news for Ukraine. You are cheering for Ukraine's dismemberment!  :(
The New York Times is a newspaper that is controlled by Democrats and constantly blames Republicans for everything. This newspaper also publishes a lot of anti-Ukrainian articles paid for by Russians.
Everything that is written in this article is not serious for people who analyze the situation and policies of Biden and his assistants.
I want the US to pursue effective policies. Democrats can't do that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 01, 2024, 11:21
Republicans Who Like Putin
....
This entire text is propaganda and manipulation by cowardly democrats. It's not surprising that you didn't even indicate its source (although this is not very important).
However, I was right, US citizens do not want to vote for the cowardly, old and ineffective Biden.

It's an article published a few hours ago in the New York Times. I copy pasted it since it is behind a paywall. But that's not relevant.

What's important is that it summarizes points I explained to you during the past 6 months or so (except for the Smirnov crap, I don't care about).

You refuse to acknowledge it despite evidence screaming in your face: trump and maga are very bad news for Ukraine. You are cheering for Ukraine's dismemberment!  :(
The New York Times is a newspaper that is controlled by Democrats and constantly blames Republicans for everything. This newspaper also publishes a lot of anti-Ukrainian articles paid for by Russians.
Everything that is written in this article is not serious for people who analyze the situation and policies of Biden and his assistants.
I want the US to pursue effective policies. Democrats can't do that.

And yet, you have done nothing to refute the arguments, because you can't. The facts, the numbers, the voting records, the statements, and the logic all are against you.
The only thing you can do is to attack the authority of the writer.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 01, 2024, 11:57
And yet, you have done nothing to refute the arguments, because you can't. The facts, the numbers, the voting records, the statements, and the logic all are against you.
The only thing you can do is to attack the authority of the writer.
Do you want me to refute what you wrote in post #2803? I thought I had already written a lot of posts refuting that propaganda.

Which writer's authority did I attack? You did not indicate any author. You just copied some text. Maybe you wrote it yourself.

The main thing is not what I write here. The main thing is that US citizens also understand all this, perhaps even intuitively.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 01, 2024, 16:48
Which writer's authority did I attack?

You don’t understand basic things.
Below is your attack on an author’s authority (New York Times) that you made without addressing the substance of the argument:

The New York Times is a newspaper that is controlled by Democrats and constantly blames Republicans for everything.

Because you can't refute any of those claims. Facts are against you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 02, 2024, 03:13
Which writer's authority did I attack?
You don’t understand basic things.
Below is your attack on an author’s authority (New York Times) that you made without addressing the substance of the argument:
The New York Times is a newspaper that is controlled by Democrats and constantly blames Republicans for everything.
Because you can't refute any of those claims. Facts are against you.
This newspaper writes articles paid for by Democrats. There is no analysis in these articles, only propaganda. I recommend that you re-read my posts in this topic 3 times over the past 2 weeks. And I'm glad that US citizens agree with me.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 02, 2024, 08:54
Map of the world without the Russian Empire.  ;D ;D ;D
Available for sale.

(https://ua-ru.my-gift.in/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/1UA-perfect_scr-20-1.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 03, 2024, 04:10
Germany confirms bugging of Bundeswehr Ukraine war talks.

Chancellor Olaf Scholz pledged a quick probe into a Russian leak of secret talks about the Ukraine war. The German military confirmed the talks were real, but couldn't rule out that the recording had been edited.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-confirms-bugging-of-bundeswehr-ukraine-war-talks/a-68424687 (https://www.dw.com/en/germany-confirms-bugging-of-bundeswehr-ukraine-war-talks/a-68424687)
_________

So, the Russian KGB is spying in Germany. Any actions of the Germans are already known to the Russians.

Arrest Merkel and Scholz! They will give you all the Russian agents in Germany.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: TonyD on March 03, 2024, 10:02
Rare earths, for example, are hardly available in Europe.
“Ukraine needs to use its mineral resources to prosper. This requires new technologies and large investments.”
Which won't happen unless the Ukraine war ends
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 04, 2024, 04:00
… yes, exploatation of natural resources will be on par with activation of foreign companies for repairing infrastructure financed with their credits, which will be paid by you…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 04, 2024, 08:36
Unfassbare Bundeswehr-Panne
Russen hören Geheim-Gespräch deutscher Generäle ab
https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/panne-russen-hoeren-geheim-gespraech-deutscher-generaele-ueber-taurus-ab-87367628.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/panne-russen-hoeren-geheim-gespraech-deutscher-generaele-ueber-taurus-ab-87367628.bild.html)

Russen hören deutsche Offiziere ab
Das Lausch-Problem der Bundeswehr
Nato-Partner und Sicherheitskreise sind besorgt
https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik/russen-hoeren-deutsche-offiziere-ab-das-lausch-problem-der-bundeswehr-87374558.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/bild-plus/politik/inland/politik/russen-hoeren-deutsche-offiziere-ab-das-lausch-problem-der-bundeswehr-87374558.bild.html)

MAD ermittelt wegen Spionageverdachts bei der Bundeswehr
Russische Propagandakanäle haben eine Aufzeichnung einer internen Besprechung von Luftwaffenoffizieren veröffentlicht. Die Aufnahme ist vermutlich authentisch, der Militärgeheimdienst hat Ermittlungen eingeleitet.
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/spionage-verdacht-bei-der-bundeswehr-mad-ermittelt-wegen-in-russland-geleaktem-audio-a-56519a97-a3a2-4c0c-a4f9-778fd0976996 (https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/spionage-verdacht-bei-der-bundeswehr-mad-ermittelt-wegen-in-russland-geleaktem-audio-a-56519a97-a3a2-4c0c-a4f9-778fd0976996)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 04, 2024, 09:01
So. Germany is not only under the dome of Russian propaganda, but also under the complete control of the KGB. This is the result of the rule of KGB agent Merkel.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 04, 2024, 09:14
… according this manipulated map, there are no pretensions to EU countries…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 04, 2024, 10:08
… according this manipulated map, there are no pretensions to EU countries…

This is so ridiculous!
While some of this mad partition may have some historical background (parts that may have belonged to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or to the Austro-Hungarian Empire), the part I circled assigned to Romania has never been part of Romania or Romanian principalities. Even the most ultra-nationalists among Romanians never dreamed of that aberration. It's probably only in exchange for the southern part of Bessarabia (marked with a question mark) that Medvedev wants to incorporate into russia, while it was traditionally part of the Romania or Moldovan Voivodeship.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 04, 2024, 10:20
… I have seen these on Telegram - there must be some manipulation since reflections on floor are in different colors… but, it’s on par with BramStoker’s KGB, Biden-Trump stories… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 04, 2024, 10:28
This is so ridiculous!
It's not ridiculous. This is Russian Nazism and propaganda. Now the Russians are trying to convince the NATO countries that they just need to divide Ukraine, and that the Russians will not occupy the EU countries and Moldova. We already saw all this in the 30s of the last century, this is exactly how Hitler acted. Then they divided the Czech Republic and Poland, and everyone around seemed to agree. But eventually the Second World War began.
Now the third world war is already underway, and the Russians need Ukraine as a strategic springboard for the occupation of Moldova and the EU countries. But looking at the politics of the Euro parasites and the Democrats in the USA, I think that the Russians are good at introducing their propaganda.
This is not just a map, this is a bidding for parts of torn and occupied Ukraine. The Russians offer different pieces to different countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 04, 2024, 10:35
… like I said… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 04, 2024, 18:16
 >:(
… I have seen these on Telegram - there must be some manipulation since reflections on floor are in different colors…
These are patterns on the floor, not reflections. A better view on the same patterns is in these frames from the same clip:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 04, 2024, 21:49
…. thanks, my bad then!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 04:34
 ;D ;D ;D

The Russian Project 22160 patrol ship Sergei Kotov was hit as a result of a strike by Ukrainian naval drones on the night of 5 March.

Ukrainian intelligence has posted a video of drones sinking the Russian patrol ship Sergei Kotov:
https://youtu.be/pfwvz43QYxU (https://youtu.be/pfwvz43QYxU)

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/a/f/afcf908-sergey-kotov1300_690x387.avif)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 04:47
… thanks to AWACS over Romania and Reaper over Black sea…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 08:39
 ;D ;D ;D

Elimination of Russian orcs.

An incredibly beautiful hit by a Ukrainian drone operator

https://twitter.com/TOGAjano21/status/1764857584991830190 (https://twitter.com/TOGAjano21/status/1764857584991830190)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 09:18
… where have you seen orcs…?! I can only see real people in uniforms…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 05, 2024, 10:54
… where have you seen orcs…?! I can only see real people in uniforms…

Context needed: people in uniforms suffering consequences for invading a sovereign and independent country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 10:58
I think that trucic is a Russian troll.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 11:09
Context needed: people in uniforms suffering consequences for invading a sovereign and independent country.
Russians cannot be called people. Russians are genetic orcs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 12:36
… sorry, but you are wrong… I’m secret KGB agent… btw, dehumanization of one nation will not bring peace in your country… if you are enjoying in those videos, something may be wrong with you…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 12:43
… where have you seen orcs…?! I can only see real people in uniforms…

Context needed: people in uniforms suffering consequences for invading a sovereign and independent country.
… sovereign and independent…?! :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 05, 2024, 13:08
… where have you seen orcs…?! I can only see real people in uniforms…

Context needed: people in uniforms suffering consequences for invading a sovereign and independent country.
… sovereign and independent…?! :)

What is your view of Ukraine and the war?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 13:11
France's Macron urges allies not be cowardly on Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frances-macron-urges-allies-not-be-coward-ukraine-2024-03-05/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frances-macron-urges-allies-not-be-coward-ukraine-2024-03-05/)

________
Well, as I said, Trump’s approach to the White House makes the EU countries think about how to better help Ukraine. After all, the next victims of the Russian Na.zis will be the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 13:13
… why are you protecting Bram Stokers point of dehumanization…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 13:15
The ICC has issued arrest warrants for the Russian Air Force Commander and the Black Sea Fleet Commander for war crimes and crimes against humanity in Ukraine, including attacks on civilian objects and infrastructure between October 2022 and March 23.

Today, on March 5, the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants for Russian Long-Range Aviation Commander Sergei Kobylash and Russian Black Sea Fleet Commander Viktor Sokolov.

Details
The arrest warrants were reportedly issued in "the context of the situation in Ukraine for alleged crimes committed from at least October 10, 2022 to at least March 9, 2023.

Kobylash and Sokolov are suspected of war crimes: attacks on Ukrainian civilian objects with excessive harm to civilians, as well as crimes against humanity.

As noted, the ICC has reasonable grounds to believe that they bear individual criminal responsibility for these crimes.

The two arrest warrants were issued on motions filed by the prosecution, the ICC said.

It is also noted that there are grounds to believe that both suspects are responsible for missile strikes on Ukrainian energy infrastructure between at least October 10, 2022 and March 9, 2023.

The strikes were directed against civilian objects, and the expected incidental and collateral damage to civilians was clearly excessive compared to the expected military advantage, the court said in a statement.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 05, 2024, 13:21
… where have you seen orcs…?! I can only see real people in uniforms…

Context needed: people in uniforms suffering consequences for invading a sovereign and independent country.
… sovereign and independent…?! :)
Of course, as per the global consensus and international law, bar russia and a handful of its misguided cronies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 13:36
… yes, you are right… Ukraine is independent and sovereign, without any infuence… Bram Stocker stories are real and his facts universe can be considered as objective…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 13:44
trucic, whose Crimea?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 13:51
… you know it’s Turkish, but there had happened something like in Eastern Galicia and Volhynia…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 05, 2024, 13:58
… yes, you are right… Ukraine is independent and sovereign, without any infuence… Bram Stocker stories are real and his facts universe can be considered as objective…


What stocker2014 writes is one side of the coin. You can read on countless previous pages that I am extremely critical of some of the statements.

On the other hand, Russia recognized Ukraine's sovereignty in the Budapest Memorandum in 2014. In return for the country disarming itself with nuclear weapons. Ukraine has kept its side of the bargain. The Russians did not!

But I assume that we won't get a statement from you on this.

Ukraine has the right to make its own decisions (= independence) as to whether it wants to orient itself more towards the West or the East. This also applies to the other states of the former Warsaw Pact. Perhaps the Russian leadership should think about why even former neutral countries such as Sweden or Finland have decided to move westwards. There must be reasons for this, which probably lie in the development of Russian policy.

One can decide to respond to such decisions with armed force. But you will never reach people's hearts. And neither will long-term peace in your own country!

I don't doubt that mistakes were made in Ukraine - also with regard to dealing with Russia-friendly sections of the population. But nothing - absolutely nothing - can justify attacking the country!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 05, 2024, 14:02
… yes, you are right… Ukraine is independent and sovereign, without any infuence… Bram Stocker stories are real and his facts universe can be considered as objective…

What are you talking about?
Ukraine is a sovereign and independent country that has been invaded by an aggressive colonial empire.

This fact has nothing to do with stocker's daily aberrations.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 14:09
… sovereign and independent countries are not influenced by others in any decision - right or wrong… in Bram Stokers and his country interest is not to provide material with killed people… especially not on microstock forums…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 14:15
I don't doubt that mistakes were made in Ukraine - also with regard to dealing with Russia-friendly sections of the population. But nothing - absolutely nothing - can justify attacking the country!
???
There were a lot of mistakes. It was not right to sign an agreement with US Democrats and eliminate nuclear weapons. This is the most important mistake.
Everything else that concerns some kind of bad attitude towards those people who liked russia and putin, these are all narratives of Russian propaganda. There has never been any civil war in Ukraine. Since 2014, the Russians began occupying Ukraine (Crimea and eastern regions).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 05, 2024, 14:22
… sovereign and independent countries are not influenced by others in any decision - right or wrong… in Bram Stokers and his country interest is not to provide material with killed people… especially not on microstock forums…

It's the other way around: sovereign and independed countries shouldn't be invaded by colonial empires, and be free to choose their own alliances...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 05, 2024, 14:26
… sovereign and independent countries are not influenced by others in any decision...

Your statement is wrong! Nowhere on this planet do people live who are not exposed to any influences. It starts with the influence of children by their parents, of pupils by their classmates and so on...

Independence defines that one can FREELY decide which influence one would rather bow to than the other, and this right cannot and must not be bent by force of arms! It's as simple as that!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 05, 2024, 14:39
I don't doubt that mistakes were made in Ukraine - also with regard to dealing with Russia-friendly sections of the population. But nothing - absolutely nothing - can justify attacking the country!
???


Everything else that concerns some kind of bad attitude towards those people who liked russia and putin, these are all narratives of Russian propaganda.


You, stocker2014, with your subterranean, sweeping, generalizing statements about the Russians and the Russian people, are exactly the example that your statement must be wrong!

You are proof that there must have been problems in eastern Ukraine – at least if many Ukrainians think exactly like you – see previous pages. This is also the reason why I keep writing that you should keep your mouth shut, because you are constantly adding fuel to the fire, which you describe as pure Russian narrative / Russian propaganda. But what you write and obviously think supports the Russian narrative. It's absolutely unclear to me why you don't realize this yourself, even though you've been given thousands of hints in the meantime that you'd better keep quiet!!!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 05, 2024, 15:21
you'd better keep quiet!!!
No. I am the one who writes the truth. You Germans don't like the truth.
But I know that you Germans are silent. And you will remain silent even when Russian tanks shoot at your houses.

Therefore, if I write that Russian fans were not touched in Ukraine, then this is true. Whether you like her or not. Now many lovers of Russians have become enemies of Russians. This is called evolution.

My words do not please some people from other countries because these people are influenced by Russian propaganda and think very well of Russians. Using the example of Ukraine, planet earth will learn who the Russian orcs are.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 05, 2024, 16:15
… so KGB Russians have massacred Poles, Tatars and are in war with themselves in Ukraine…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 06, 2024, 04:51
The Slavs are a constituent element of the Moldavian nation.

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=389513943832026 (https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=389513943832026)

______________
Russian Na.zis began preparations for the occupation of Moldova.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 06, 2024, 05:34
 ;D ;D ;D

Ukraine’s first lady declines State of the Union invitation

The White House had intended for Olena Zelenska to sit near first lady Jill Biden and Russian opposition figure Yulia Navalnaya, who is viewed with some skepticism in Ukraine.

Olena Zelenska, Ukraine’s first lady, declined an invitation from the White House to attend Thursday’s State of the Union address, forgoing one of Washington’s most dignified events and underscoring the complicated politics facing her war-torn country.

The intent had been to seat first lady Jill Biden near Zelenska and Yulia Navalnaya, the widow of Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who died last month in an Arctic prison, according to officials familiar with the planning. The image of both women, each a symbol of resistance to Russian President Vladimir Putin, would offer a powerful backdrop to President Biden’s address to a joint session of Congress.

But Navalnaya’s potential presence caused discomfort for the Ukrainians, said people familiar with Kyiv’s deliberations. Though her late husband is widely hailed as an anticorruption icon who risked his life to oppose Putin, Navalny’s legacy in Ukraine is clouded by past statements that Crimea, which Putin annexed in 2014, belonged to Russia.

Even though Navalny’s views later evolved into support for Ukraine’s internationally recognized 1991 borders, many Ukrainians view him as out of step with Kyiv’s goals.

“While in the West, we have always thought of him as someone who fought bravely and courageously against Putin, in Ukraine, Navalny is seen as in line with a mind-set of Russian nationalism and imperialism,” said Alina Polyakova, president of the Center for European Policy Analysis, a Washington think tank.

“Navalny opposed Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, of course, but in 2014, when Russia first invaded Ukraine, he very much was in line with a general Russian view that saw Crimea as part of Russia’s historical lands,” Polyakova said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/05/state-of-the-union-olena-zelenska-yulia-navalnaya/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/05/state-of-the-union-olena-zelenska-yulia-navalnaya/)
___________

Navalny was a racist, a rashist and an imperialist. It is only Biden and Nikki Haley who support Russian rashists. Ukraine told Biden to fuck you!
Trump is doing the right thing by not supporting this Navalny.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 06, 2024, 06:25
… omg, you are drunk again…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 06, 2024, 08:04

Trump is doing the right thing by not supporting this Navalny.

Of course he does not: the enemies of my friends are my enemies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 06, 2024, 10:09

Trump is doing the right thing by not supporting this Navalny.

Of course he does not: the enemies of my friends are my enemies.
I won’t draw any conclusions about Trump now; everything will be shown by his policies as President of the United States.
Navalny was an enemy of Ukraine and Ukrainians. He was not only an enemy of the Ukrainians, but also an enemy of other peoples who suffered from the Russians.

As I have already said, there is no democratic opposition to the fascist regime in russia and there never has been. The attempt of US Democrats to support Navalny and his wife is support for the Russian empire.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 06, 2024, 10:32
Russian forces fired a missile at Odesa while Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis was visiting the city.

Direct speech from Mitsotakis: “President Zelensky and his staff showed us and explained the importance of the port and what is being done to restore and strengthen the Ukrainian maritime route and what damage was suffered during the attacks. Already at the very end we heard the sound of sirens and explosions that were very close to us. We didn't have time to go to a protected place, it's a very impressive experience."

_____________
So, Russian Na.zis and terrorists planned to kill the Greek Prime Minister today.

The Russian Federation must be liquidated! russia is a threat to the entire civilized world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 06, 2024, 11:39
… so you don’t need to give us anything else, just your weird conclusions in a few words… Navalyni was enemy and ‘orcs’ against greek prime minister… followed with killing of people… everytime avoid history facts… accuse people who don’t agree with you… and just go on…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 06, 2024, 13:02
Haley exits race, creating a Biden-Trump rematch.
She didn’t endorse Trump but instead called on him to earn the support of voters who backed her.

_______
How is she different from Biden? She is also a member of the Republican Party....
Kick her out of the Republican Party!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 06, 2024, 13:04
TEHRAN (Tasnim) – An oil tanker carrying crude owned by the US was confiscated on Wednesday.

https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2024/03/06/3050881/iran-seizes-us-oil-cargo-over-eb-patients-lawsuit (https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2024/03/06/3050881/iran-seizes-us-oil-cargo-over-eb-patients-lawsuit)

______
The policies of cowardly Democrats have led to the fact that any terrorists are now wiping their feet on the United States. US citizens will make a big mistake if they elect Biden again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 06, 2024, 13:53
… Biden will easily win…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 04:50
 ;D ;D ;D

Elimination of Russian orcs and Russian tanks. Novomykhailivka, Ukraine.
Beautiful video.

https://t.me/vanek_nikolaev_ukr/5257 (https://t.me/vanek_nikolaev_ukr/5257)

12 units of armored vehicles were destroyed, of which four are tanks.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 07:56
4 reasons the latest polls are awful for Biden  ;D ;D ;D

Age and physical/mental capacity

Voters continue to be troubled by Biden’s age and perceived acuity. Forty-five percent of those who responded in the New York Times/Siena poll said that Biden’s age “is such a problem that he is not capable of handling the job of president,” while 26 percent said it “makes him ineffective, but he is still able to handle the job of president well enough.”
In Sunday’s CBS News/YouGov poll, 45 percent said only Trump was physically healthy enough to serve as president, compared to 17 percent who said only Biden was. Nearly three-in-10, 29 percent, said neither. And 43 percent said only Trump would have the mental fitness for another term, compared to Biden’s 26 percent.

The economy

CBS News poll, 49 percent of respondents said today’s economy is in very good or fairly good condition, while 57 percent said the current conditions are very or fairly bad. Despite a pandemic-induced crash during Trump’s final year in office, 65 percent remember the economy under Trump as being very or fairly good, while only 28 percent remember it as being very or fairly bad.

Immigration

A plurality, 45 percent, of those who took the CBS News survey consider the situation a crisis, and half think a second Biden term would mean an increase in the number of migrants coming over the border. Twenty-two percent predicted another Biden presidency would bring a decrease in crossing. Meanwhile, nearly three-quarters (72 percent) think a second Trump would result in a decrease in migrants attempting to cross the southern border — only nine percent think a Trump victory would mean more crossing attempts.

Head-to-head

Trump beat Biden in a head-to-head matchup in all four of the major polls out this weekend.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/biden-polling-2024-campaign-00144625 (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/03/biden-polling-2024-campaign-00144625)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 07, 2024, 08:43
… nonsence, Russian KGB propaganda…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 07, 2024, 08:49
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/02/gaza-aid-airdrop-biden-00144563 (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/02/gaza-aid-airdrop-biden-00144563)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 07, 2024, 09:36
Germany’s Ukraine policy is incoherent for a reason
The German chancellor is driven by a deep-seated fear of Russia and a desire to be seen as a “peace chancellor.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-ukraine-policy-is-incoherent-for-a-reason/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-ukraine-policy-is-incoherent-for-a-reason/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 07, 2024, 09:55
Haley exits race, creating a Biden-Trump rematch.
She didn’t endorse Trump but instead called on him to earn the support of voters who backed her.

_______
How is she different from Biden? She is also a member of the Republican Party....
Kick her out of the Republican Party!

She is the Republican Party. What you are cheering for is the anti-Ukraine maga party.
Here are snippets from her speech when she announced she was dropping out:

"Standing by our allies in Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan is a moral imperative. But it’s also more than that. If we retreat further, there will be more war, not less."

I have always been a conservative Republican and always supported the Republican nominee.

But on this question, as she did on so many others, Margaret Thatcher provided some good advice when she said, quote, “Never just follow the crowd. Always make up your own mind.”

It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him. And I hope he does that. At its best, politics is about bringing people into your cause, not turning them away. And our conservative cause badly needs more people. This is now his time for choosing.


Yeah... you don't need any pro-Ukraine authentic conservative Republicans! You need maga hyper-nationalist populists who will offer your country on a silver platter to their ideological twin, putin. 🙄
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 10:01
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/02/gaza-aid-airdrop-biden-00144563 (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/02/gaza-aid-airdrop-biden-00144563)
Arab and Russian terrorism leads to deaths. The Russians support and are friends with Hamas. Moreover, Egypt, Turkey and other Arab countries could accept refugees from Palestine, but they do not want to do so. In the Middle East, terrorism is already to the cubic degree.
And about Biden, when he talked about touted the aircraft drop of thousands of meals into Gaza, he called Gaza Ukraine. Well, what to do with this Biden, he just needs to go to a nursing home. And not to run for president. I am surprised at those Americans who still want to vote for him.  ;D ;D ;D

Freedom for Palestine from Hamas!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 10:06
Germany’s Ukraine policy is incoherent for a reason
The German chancellor is driven by a deep-seated fear of Russia and a desire to be seen as a “peace chancellor.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-ukraine-policy-is-incoherent-for-a-reason/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-ukraine-policy-is-incoherent-for-a-reason/)
I expected nothing less from fellow KGB agent Merkel. The Germans do not understand that Scholz is leading their country to occupation by Russian orcs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 10:13
https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-ukraine-policy-is-incoherent-for-a-reason/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-ukraine-policy-is-incoherent-for-a-reason/)

"Memories of the Red Army
To understand those trends and the German fear of provoking Russia, it helps to peer into Germany’s 20th century history. Germany fought two wars against Russia with disastrous results.
Just as the horrendous losses Russia suffered at the hands of the * in World War II are seared into that country’s collective psyche, one would be hard pressed to find a German family not traumatized by the invasion of Russia — whether a father or grandfather lost in Stalingrad or civilians caught in the maw of the approaching Red Army.
"

This is all complete nonsense and Russian propaganda.
1. Very little of the territory of Russia was occupied during the Second World War. Only the territory of Ukraine was occupied.
2. The military defeat of Germany in the Second World War occurred only because of the participation of Ukrainians in these war. Ukrainians are warriors who know how to fight. If there were no Ukrainians, Germany would have occupied the USSR.
Therefore, the Germans need to help the Ukrainians eliminate the Russians, and not wait for the Russians to again drive Ukrainians into Germany against the German army.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 10:17
It is now up to Donald Trump to earn the votes of those in our party and beyond it who did not support him. And I hope he does that. At its best, politics is about bringing people into your cause, not turning them away. And our conservative cause badly needs more people. This is now his time for choosing.[/i]
If this aunt positions herself as a member of the Republican Party, she was obliged to give the votes of her voters to Trump. Now, in fact, she is helping cowardly and deceitful Democrats and, in fact, giving them her votes.
Fuck her out of the Republican Party!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 10:24
Yeah... you don't need any pro-Ukraine authentic conservative Republicans!
It's a lie. I wrote about the fact that a member of the Republican Party should give the votes of his voters to another member of the party, and not give votes to the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 07, 2024, 10:44
Yeah... you don't need any pro-Ukraine authentic conservative Republicans!
It's a lie. I wrote about the fact that a member of the Republican Party should give the votes of his voters to another member of the party, and not give votes to the Democrats.

Hmmm... where do you see that she gave votes to Democrats?

She is only asking trump to win the trust of true conservative Republicans who see their party being hijacked by a hyper-nationalist, isolationist, populist, anti-Ukraine faction—an ideological twin of putin.

By the way, your dear leader, the future moron-in-chief, will be soon meeting another ideological anti-Ukraine twin he admires, Orbán.

Trump to Meet Next Week With Orban, Hungary’s Leader https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/28/us/politics/trump-viktor-orban-hungary.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/28/us/politics/trump-viktor-orban-hungary.html)

Nice ideological trio: trump-orban-putin!

RIP Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 11:18
She is only asking trump to win the trust of true conservative Republicans
::) ::) ::) :'( :'( :'(

Poor attempt to justify Nikki Haley's betrayal.

As for Trump's meetings, no one knows what goals he is pursuing and what he will really talk about. Only based on the results of US policy under President Trump will it be possible to draw conclusions. Hungary is a member of the EU and NATO.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 07, 2024, 11:32
She is only asking trump to win the trust of true conservative Republicans
::) ::) ::) :'( :'( :'(

Poor attempt to justify Nikki Haley's betrayal.

As for Trump's meetings, no one knows what goals he is pursuing and what he will really talk about. Only based on the results of US policy under President Trump will it be possible to draw conclusions. Hungary is a member of the EU and NATO.

The difference between stupid people and wise people is that wise people can acknowledge reality and plan ahead, while stupid people only react to what has happened to them.

With your "let's wait and see" approach, with your tendency to discard all facts contradicting your deep-rooted beliefs, you obviously don't fall into the second category.

It will be too late to react when Putin's tanks roll over Kyiv, with trump's (putin's ideological twin) blessing...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 11:36
It will be too late to react when putin's tanks roll over Kyiv, with trump's blessing...
:'( :'( :'(

With the help that cowardly democrats have been providing for 3 years, it is still a miracle that Ukraine has not yet been occupied. And this miracle is only thanks to the heroism of the Ukrainians.

Fuck the Democrats! Fuck Biden!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 07, 2024, 11:43
It will be too late to react when putin's tanks roll over Kyiv, with trump's blessing...
:'( :'( :'(

With the help that cowardly democrats have been providing for 3 years, it is still a miracle that Ukraine has not yet been occupied. And this miracle is only thanks to the heroism of the Ukrainians.

Fuck the Democrats! Fuck Biden!

Incorrect. The US aid to Ukraine, specifically the $75 billion worth of military equipment and humanitarian support, although not at the level needed, combined with Ukrainian heroism are the actual reasons why Kyiv has not become a russian oblast yet.

That support could have been substantially better if not for the anti-Ukraine sentiment among pro-trump maga politicians.

Without additional help, heroism alone will not suffice. And rest assured that no help will come from trump and his maga cult, in spite of your "sit and wait," deluded, wishful thinking.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 12:32
Without additional help, heroism alone will not suffice. And rest assured that no help will come from trump and his maga cult, in spite of your "sit and wait," deluded, wishful thinking.
Effective US policy is not what the Democrats tell you about.
I have already written that the United States must deal with the threat called China, North Korea and Iran. The EU must take over the war with the Russians. The US should not participate in all wars. Trump has clearly told EU countries many times that russia is a problem for the EU, not the US.
So, Trump will be able to force the EU to provide enough military assistance to Ukraine.
I am also sure that the United States under Trump will supply much more weapons than under Biden. But this is not necessary, the United States can supply zero weapons to Ukraine. The main thing is to force the euro parasites to start protecting themselves, and not rely on the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 07, 2024, 12:46
So far, only russia has violated international laws and invaded an independent and sovereign country.

But this is not necessary, the United States can supply zero weapons to Ukraine.

Then why are you complaining that "Biden" is not giving you enough weapons, if you don't need them anymore?
Because that's music to putin's ears, you (involuntary?) russian asset!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 12:58
So far, only russia has violated international laws and invaded an independent and sovereign country.
:o
Are you talking about China, Iran and North Korea? Are you joking?

But this is not necessary, the United States can supply zero weapons to Ukraine.
Why are you complaining that "Biden" is not giving you enough weapons, if suddenly you don't need them anymore?
Because that's music to putin's ears, you russian (involuntary?) asset!
Because Biden doesn't do anything. Biden is not pursuing any effective policy and Biden does not allow other countries to transfer the F16 and other necessary weapons made in the USA or based on American technologies to Ukraine. Moreover, Biden pursued a policy of transferring a minimum amount of weapons to Ukraine.

Biden is generally an old man who doesn’t know what he’s doing in the White House. The policy is carried out by his closest assistants (friends of the Russians).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 07, 2024, 13:02
Biden pursued a policy of transferring a minimum amount of weapons to Ukraine.

You just said that you don't need American weapons:

But this is not necessary, the United States can supply zero weapons to Ukraine.

Make up your mind, you (involuntary?) russian asset!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 14:27
You just said that you don't need American weapons.
You need to re-read my posts 3 times.  ;D
I said that provided that the United States pursues an effective policy towards the countries of the axis of evil and towards the EU, a situation is possible when Ukraine does not need arms supplies from the United States. In my posts I explained why.

Instead of creating a flood, better understand what I write.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 07, 2024, 14:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah... for the past hundred pages, you criticized the current US administration for not providing enough weapons to Ukraine.
Now, suddenly, you don't need US weapons anymore.

As for Trump's meetings, no one knows what goals he is pursuing and what he will really talk about. Only based on the results of US policy under President Trump will it be possible to draw conclusions. Hungary is a member of the EU and NATO.

You defend trump, and now you defend his protégé, Orbán.

When will you defend their ideological twin, putin, you (involuntary?) russian asset?

Here is what Orbán (putin's pawn inside EU) had to say:

https://abouthungary.hu/speeches-and-remarks/interview-with-viktor-orban-by-tucker-carlson
...
Carlson:
If you take a step back, the point of NATO is to provoke war with Russia.

Orbán:
This is a bad strategy. We have to stop it. We cannot beat them (i.e. russians). They will not kill their leader. They will never give it up. They will invest more. It’s a joke. It’s a very dangerous moment now.
...
It’s tragedy for Ukraine. But they will run out earlier from the soldiers, number of soldiers, than the Russians. What finally will count is boots on the ground. And the Russians are far stronger, far numerous, more numerous, than Ukrainians.
...
That creates a kind of military approach like they have always on security, safety, buffer zone, geopolitical approaches. It’s not, it’s not our culture, it’s a different approach. It’s legitimate to have that because it’s their history. But we have to understand that we cannot beat them as we do just now. It’s impossible. They will not kill their leader. They will never give it up. They will keep together the country and they will defend it. We finance more, they will invest more. If we send more technical equipment, they will produce more. So, don’t misunderstand the Russians.
...
Peace. Immediately. Call back Trump. That’s the only way out.
...
We should make a deal with the Russians on the new security architecture to provide security, sovereignty for Ukraine, but not membership in NATO.
...
So if United States would like to have a peace, next morning there is a peace, because it’s obvious that the Ukrainians, the poor Ukrainians on their own, they are not competitive in this war. So if there is no money and there is no equipment from the West and especially from United States, the war is over.
...
But of course, I try to have a rational relationship with the Russians, especially on economy and energy. And my personal point is that without involving the Russians into a security architecture of Europe, we cannot provide a safe life to the citizens of Europe.

...some member state leaders like your president, they had a strategy to crush the Russians somehow. And the strategy was that the Ukrainian soldiers will fight and some member states of NATO will finance this fight by money and by military technical equipment. And this is the way how militarily we can beat the Russians. We Hungarians were very clear at the very first point. This strategy will never work. So this is a bad strategy. And now we have one and a half year of the war and it’s obvious that this is a bad strategy. We have to stop it. We need a new strategy or we should run as soon as we can for peace.


These are talking points Orbán, your beloved trump, his maga ideologues, and to a large extent you (involuntary? russian asset) borrowed from putin's propaganda!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 07, 2024, 17:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah... for the past hundred pages, you criticized the current US administration for not providing enough weapons to Ukraine.
Now, suddenly, you don't need US weapons anymore.

As for Trump's meetings, no one knows what goals he is pursuing and what he will really talk about. Only based on the results of US policy under President Trump will it be possible to draw conclusions. Hungary is a member of the EU and NATO.

You defend trump, and now you defend his protégé, Orbán.

When will you defend their ideological twin, putin, you (involuntary?) russian asset?

Here is what Orbán (putin's pawn inside EU) had to say:

https://abouthungary.hu/speeches-and-remarks/interview-with-viktor-orban-by-tucker-carlson
...
Carlson:
If you take a step back, the point of NATO is to provoke war with Russia.

Orbán:
This is a bad strategy. We have to stop it. We cannot beat them (i.e. russians). They will not kill their leader. They will never give it up. They will invest more. It’s a joke. It’s a very dangerous moment now.
...
It’s tragedy for Ukraine. But they will run out earlier from the soldiers, number of soldiers, than the Russians. What finally will count is boots on the ground. And the Russians are far stronger, far numerous, more numerous, than Ukrainians.
...
That creates a kind of military approach like they have always on security, safety, buffer zone, geopolitical approaches. It’s not, it’s not our culture, it’s a different approach. It’s legitimate to have that because it’s their history. But we have to understand that we cannot beat them as we do just now. It’s impossible. They will not kill their leader. They will never give it up. They will keep together the country and they will defend it. We finance more, they will invest more. If we send more technical equipment, they will produce more. So, don’t misunderstand the Russians.
...
Peace. Immediately. Call back Trump. That’s the only way out.
...
We should make a deal with the Russians on the new security architecture to provide security, sovereignty for Ukraine, but not membership in NATO.
...
So if United States would like to have a peace, next morning there is a peace, because it’s obvious that the Ukrainians, the poor Ukrainians on their own, they are not competitive in this war. So if there is no money and there is no equipment from the West and especially from United States, the war is over.
...
But of course, I try to have a rational relationship with the Russians, especially on economy and energy. And my personal point is that without involving the Russians into a security architecture of Europe, we cannot provide a safe life to the citizens of Europe.

...some member state leaders like your president, they had a strategy to crush the Russians somehow. And the strategy was that the Ukrainian soldiers will fight and some member states of NATO will finance this fight by money and by military technical equipment. And this is the way how militarily we can beat the Russians. We Hungarians were very clear at the very first point. This strategy will never work. So this is a bad strategy. And now we have one and a half year of the war and it’s obvious that this is a bad strategy. We have to stop it. We need a new strategy or we should run as soon as we can for peace.


These are talking points Orbán, your beloved trump, his maga ideologues, and to a large extent you (involuntary? russian asset) borrowed from putin's propaganda!


Zero Talent: Leave it alone. You can write your fingers to the bone - he has his opinion and you will never change it. The election result in the USA will have an impact on Ukraine - whatever it is. And if it turns out as we both predict, stocker2014 will draw his own conclusions.

Personally, I don't want to communicate with anyone who writes things like "Fuck her out of the Republican Party!". Or "belongs in the electric chair" or "needs to be liquidated". A person who says such things is not someone you should discuss with, because their ideas are just as bad as those of those who attacked Ukraine.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 17:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah... for the past hundred pages, you criticized the current US administration for not providing enough weapons to Ukraine.
Now, suddenly, you don't need US weapons anymore.
What else could you take from this idiot Biden? If he is not able to pursue an effective policy, then at least he should have provided weapons in the required quantity and the required nomenclature. But he couldn't do that either. Bas.tard.

These are talking points Orbán, your beloved trump, his maga ideologues, and to a large extent you (involuntary? russian asset) borrowed from putin's propaganda!
What does Trump have to do with this? And where and when did I defend Orbán?  ::) ::) ::)
Trump might want to punch Orban in the face, that’s why he wants to meet. And here you are writing your fantasies again.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 07, 2024, 17:20
Personally, I don't want to communicate with anyone who writes things like "Fuck her out of the Republican Party!". Or "belongs in the electric chair" or "needs to be liquidated". A person who says such things is not someone you should discuss with, because their ideas are just as bad as those of those who attacked Ukraine.
:'( :'( :'(
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 08, 2024, 02:40
Zelenskyy taps ousted commander-in-chief as envoy to UK in ‘compromise’ move

https://www.politico.eu/article/valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-uk-ambassador/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-uk-ambassador/)

…. Bran Stoker will have to rethink how politics works…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 08, 2024, 08:02
"U.S. President Joe Biden said the Russian dictator Vladimir Putin does not intend to stop only at Ukraine, but it is the Ukrainian nation that is able to stop his "march" of aggression across Europe if provided with the required support."

 :o :o :o

Ass.hole! What have you been doing for the last 3 years? Where are the aviation, tanks, missiles? Where?

Biden! Fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 08, 2024, 08:03
Zelenskyy taps ousted commander-in-chief as envoy to UK in ‘compromise’ move

https://www.politico.eu/article/valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-uk-ambassador/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/valery-zaluzhny-ukraine-uk-ambassador/)

…. Bran Stoker will have to rethink how politics works…
Who is Bran? I do not know this word.
Why are you posting regular Ukrainian news? What's your question?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 08, 2024, 08:33
Ukraine found itself between two fires, just like in the Second World War. On the one hand, Ukrainians are being killed by Russian orcs, and on the other hand, Euro parasites are stealing Ukrainian people into slavery. Only the words have changed, but the essence remains the same. The EU gave few weapons just to quietly steal from Ukrainians.
Therefore, only Trump can bring justice!
Trump very correctly says that EU security is only an EU problem. And as we see, the euro parasites are beginning to look at Ukraine and its role differently. They begin to stir and think that the life of the parasite cannot be long.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 08, 2024, 10:10
… sadly, Biden is going to win…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 08, 2024, 11:28
The EU’s carbon tax may devastate a country it is trying to keep alive: Ukraine

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-carbon-tax-devastate-keep-alive-ukraine/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-carbon-tax-devastate-keep-alive-ukraine/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 08, 2024, 13:05
The EU’s carbon tax may devastate a country it is trying to keep alive: Ukraine

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-carbon-tax-devastate-keep-alive-ukraine/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-carbon-tax-devastate-keep-alive-ukraine/)
::) ::) ::)
World War 3 is going on, and the EU is thinking about the environment...
Let them go to the battlefield, hundreds of thousands of shells and thousands of bombs, mines, missiles explode there in a month, plus the use of chemical weapons and phosphorus bombs by the Russians. Maybe the EU will also impose taxes on the Armed Forces of Ukraine?  ;D ;D ;D
As I understand it, the EU is preparing its ecologically clean territory for Russian occupation.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 08, 2024, 13:36
… yes, you have totally demystified EU…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 08, 2024, 14:31
I will write about the lies of Biden and the US Democrats. These bast.ards are shouting in all the media that military aid from the United States is not coming to Ukraine due to the fault of the Republican Party. In fact, this is all a lie.
There are several mechanisms to transfer weapons to Ukraine (if only there is a desire):
1. By directly financing military orders and new weapons production.
2. By signing the Lend-Lease law (it was in force until last year, but the friend of the Russians, Biden, did not supply weapons under this law). So, if that bas.tard Biden wanted to help Ukraine with weapons, he would sign or extend the Lend-Lease and give permission for the supply of weapons under the Lend-Lease. This would mean that the Pentagon would independently begin to supply weapons to Ukraine from warehouses in the United States. These supplies do not require any financing.
But, as we see, the liars Democrats are doing everything to help the Russians occupy Ukraine and not supply weapons to Ukraine in the required quantity and type.
Biden's place in the electric chair! The US Democratic Party must be banned!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 08, 2024, 14:38
Speaking like a true friend of putin. Music to his ears.
Music for trump and orban ears!

Speaking like a true russian troll!
🤮
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 08, 2024, 14:39
Speaking like a true friend of putin. Music to his ears.
Music for trump and orban ears!

Speaking like a true russian troll!
🤮
Zero Talent, you are self-critical.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 08, 2024, 14:48
Speaking like a true friend of putin. Music to his ears.
Music for trump and orban ears!

Speaking like a true russian troll!
🤮
Zero Talent, you are self-critical.  ;D ;D ;D

Nah, I'm just holding a mirror in front of you!
You should see the reflection of a russian asset, but you are too nearsighted to recognize it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 08, 2024, 15:04
I will write about the lies of Biden and the US Democrats. These bast.ards are shouting in all the media that military aid from the United States is not coming to Ukraine due to the fault of the Republican Party. In fact, this is all a lie.
There are several mechanisms to transfer weapons to Ukraine (if only there is a desire):
1. By directly financing military orders and new weapons production.
2. By signing the Lend-Lease law (it was in force until last year, but the friend of the Russians, Biden, did not supply weapons under this law). So, if that bas.tard Biden wanted to help Ukraine with weapons, he would sign or extend the Lend-Lease and give permission for the supply of weapons under the Lend-Lease. This would mean that the Pentagon would independently begin to supply weapons to Ukraine from warehouses in the United States. These supplies do not require any financing.
But, as we see, the liars Democrats are doing everything to help the Russians occupy Ukraine and not supply weapons to Ukraine in the required quantity and type.
Biden's place in the electric chair! The US Democratic Party must be banned!


A little tip: It would probably be even more impressive for your invisible followers if, in addition to the red font color, the characters were also flashing in different colors.

Which of course doesn't make the nonsense being spouted here any better.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 08, 2024, 17:16
Very good tip, Ralf.

Nonsense gets better when you dress it up!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 08, 2024, 17:53
Very good tip, Ralf.

Nonsense gets better when you dress it up!


Yes Wilm, we two German KGB agent parasites know how to promote propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 08, 2024, 18:35
Very good tip, Ralf.

Nonsense gets better when you dress it up!


Yes Wilm, we two German KGB agent parasites know how to promote propaganda.

Yes, we should be in the electric chair for this!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 09, 2024, 01:08
Flight in the trunk" for €340,000: a minibus with 34 people in the cargo compartment tried to enter Romania

https://unn.ua/en/amp/flight-in-the-trunk-for-euro340000-a-minibus-with-34-people-in-the-cargo-compartment-tried-to-enter-romania

… in following videos, officers explain rights to detained men…

https://twitter.com/tweetsNV/status/1766092576451407880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1766092576451407880%7Ctwgr%5E92bfbdab99bf14c2d4b2a5a0dddf9e250278af24%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-4091605054133633922.ampproject.net%2F2402231941000%2Fframe.html
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 03:06
Yes Wilm, we two German KGB agent parasites know how to promote propaganda.
You are still far from Merkel and Scholz, or rather, you are definitely not them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 03:11
You should see the reflection of a russian asset
1. Accusing a person of trolling during a discussion is trolling. That's why you are the troll now.
2. I write reasoned facts and draw conclusions. There is only one conclusion: Biden is a political criminal.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 04:26
 ;D ;D ;D

Russia's cities of Taganrog and Kursk attacked by drones overnight: aircraft company repairing A-50 aircraft targeted.
_________
The Ukrainian Armed Forces bombed russia well today. We will wait for details of the number of destroyed targets.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 07:25
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/hungarys-pm-orban-supports-trump-after-florida-meeting-2024-03-09/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/hungarys-pm-orban-supports-trump-after-florida-meeting-2024-03-09/)

"Viktor Orbán, Prime Minister of Hungary, has held a meeting with Donald Trump, the future candidate for the US presidential elections from the Republicans, in the American state of Florida.

Orbán expressed his confidence that only Trump's return to the White House can bring peace on Twitter (X).

"We need leaders in the world who are respected and can bring peace. He is one of them! Come back and bring us peace, Mr. President!" Orbán wrote.

At the same time, in his Facebook video, Orbán stated that during the Trump presidency in 2017-2021 there was peace in the Middle East, as well as in Ukraine.

He added that there would be no war in Ukraine now if Trump had been re-elected in 2020.
"
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 08:56
 ;D ;D ;D
Russia's oil refining capacity has been temporarily reduced by multiple Ukrainian drone strikes against refineries across russia, and it will take longer than usual for russia to restore them amid sanctions.
That’s according to the UK Ministry of Defense citing British intelligence.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3837592-russian-oil-refining-capacity-reduced-amid-ukrainian-uav-attacks.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3837592-russian-oil-refining-capacity-reduced-amid-ukrainian-uav-attacks.html)
_____
EU, USA, NATO! - This is how sanctions should be introduced.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 09:01
How Russian propaganda works in other countries of the world.

‘Useful expert' from US invents Pentagon's plan to evacuate Zelensky to Lviv.
He spreads Russian narratives to English-speaking audiences through Substack and Asia Times.

More details here:
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-factcheck/3837303-useful-expert-from-us-invents-pentagons-plan-to-evacuate-zelensky-to-lviv.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-factcheck/3837303-useful-expert-from-us-invents-pentagons-plan-to-evacuate-zelensky-to-lviv.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 09, 2024, 09:29

"We need leaders in the world who are respected and can bring peace. He is one of them! Come back and bring us peace, Mr. President!" Orbán wrote.

+100

I gave you the transcript of his entire interview with Tucker Carlson, in one of my previous posts

Let me remind you that he said:

Peace. Immediately. Call back Trump. That’s the only way out.
...
We should make a deal with the Russians


In other words, exactly what Trump bragged about: that he will make peace tomorrow by making a deal with putin and giving him what he wants.

As a russian asset (voluntary or not), I find it normal for you to cheer about this kind of "peace." +100%
I find it normal that a (voluntary or not) russian asset would cheer for putin, Orbán, and trump. +100%

P.S.: Involuntary assets are usually called by the derogatory term: "useful idiots."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 09:55
In other words, exactly what Trump bragged about: that he will make peace tomorrow by making a deal with putin and giving him what he wants.
I don’t remember Trump saying that he would give putin whatever he wants, meaning Ukraine.
You write lies and propaganda from Democrats.

P.S.: Involuntary assets are usually called by the derogatory term: "useful idiots."
You 100% meet this term.  ;D
You are a troll from the US Democratic Party.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 10:01
I gave you the transcript of his entire interview with Tucker Carlson, in one of my previous posts
Let me remind you that he said:
Peace. Immediately. Call back Trump. That’s the only way out.
...
We should make a deal with the Russians

1. Hey guys! What do I have to do with it? The Germans are in a European union with Hungary. I don't see the Germans protesting against such an alliance. The EU does not impose sanctions against Hungary. The United States is in a military alliance with Hungary, and the cowardly Biden does not raise the issue of excluding Hungary from NATO.
Start with yourself!
2. I didn’t write today about my attitude towards Orban, no one even asked me about it today. I quoted the truthful phrases, that's all. Even if putin begins to say truthful phrases in front of his gallows, I will not be able to say that putin is lying.
3. In this topic I write and quote only the truth. And it doesn’t matter who tells this truth and why. For me, the main thing is for the truth to sound!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 09, 2024, 10:06
Zaluzhnyi found unfit for further military service before his appointment as ambassador to UK

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/9/7445684/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/9/7445684/index.amp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 10:09
Zaluzhnyi found unfit for further military service before his appointment as ambassador to UK

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/9/7445684/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/9/7445684/index.amp)
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 10:13
Trolls from the Democratic Party think that the United States alone can give Ukraine to the Russians. This is lies, nonsense and propaganda. Ukraine is an independent country that pursues its own policy. In order for Ukraine to lose the war, the EU also needs to stop sending weapons to Ukraine. This is the first.
Second, I accept that the Europarasites do whatever they are told to do in the White House. Therefore, even if Biden or Trump orders the EU to completely stop aid to Ukraine and the EU stops aid, then the blame will lie not only with the US, but also with the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 09, 2024, 10:17
… mobilization is not going well, like it should…
https://youtu.be/F7cxXr5j140?si=IJE8NLQtGDaTw3Ia (https://youtu.be/F7cxXr5j140?si=IJE8NLQtGDaTw3Ia)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 09, 2024, 10:24
In other words, exactly what Trump bragged about: that he will make peace tomorrow by making a deal with putin and giving him what he wants.
I don’t remember Trump saying that he would give putin *whatever he wants, meaning Ukraine.
You write lies and propaganda from Democrats.

*What he wants, not whatever he wants (e.g. a piece of Ukraine)

It looks Ukraine's president is also falling for "propaganda from democrats".
Of course, only you and a few "illuminati" can see through it.

Source: Zelenskyy in an interview with Wolf Blitzer from CNN after the speech at the UN General Assembly

Details: But the president cautioned that any peace plan that includes Kyiv giving up the territory is unacceptable.

Quote from Zelenskyy: "So (if) the idea is how to take the part of our territory and to give (Russian President Vladimir) Putin, that is not the peace formula."

Background:

Earlier, Trump dodged the question whether he wants Ukraine to win and refused to call Putin a war criminal.
He also claimed that the US supplied Ukraine with too many weapons. 
In addition, Trump "liked" the praise he received from Russian President Vladimir Putin regarding his intentions to regulate the Russian war in Ukraine.


https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/09/20/7420572/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/09/20/7420572/)

P.S.
What Orbán wants (and you cheered +100) is what trump wants and what putin welcomes, and what Ukraine's president warned you about.

And in case you don't get sarcasm: Illuminati = involuntary russian asset = useful idiot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 10:40
....
useful idiot.
In all the flood and propaganda that you just wrote, I saw only two true words, and these two words characterize you 100%.  ;D ;D ;D
You have nothing against Trump! Only speculation, lies and propaganda, that’s all you cowardly Democrats and friends of the Russians are trying to present to Trump.
 ;D ;D ;D

This is why Trump's ratings are rising while Biden's ratings are falling.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 10:45
Zelenskyy calls on Trump to show his peace plan on ending war.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/09/20/7420572/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/09/20/7420572/)

Trump has already answered all these questions. This article is no longer relevant. This has been discussed many times in this thread.
It’s better to let the coward Biden show the plan for Ukraine and what goals he pursues. The Republicans told him so, but the bas.tard is still silent.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 09, 2024, 10:46
In an interview with the U.K.'s Channel 4 News:

"Donald Trump, I invite you to Ukraine, to Kyiv. If you can stop the war during 24 hours, I think it will be enough to come," Zelenskyy said.
...
The Ukrainian leader also shared his concern about the U.S. taking unilateral action that failed to consider Ukraine's perspective, noting the dearth of details around Trump's "peace plan."

But No surprise:

Former U.S. President Donald Trump declined Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky's invitation to visit Ukraine, citing a "conflict of interests," the U.S. news channel Newsmax reported on Nov. 5.

Conflict of interrest with putin, obviously.

That's exactly the same "peace plan" Orbán mentions and you cheered about +100.

No surprise from an involuntary russian asset!

PS. Same PS as in the previous post.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 10:55
Zero Talent, stop flooding, propaganda and manipulation of facts. I don’t even see the point of commenting on what you are copying here. Learn to write your thoughts and write reasonedly.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 09, 2024, 11:00
Zero Talent, stop flooding, propaganda and manipulation of facts. I don’t even see the point of commenting on what you are copying here. Learn to write your thoughts and write reasonedly.
 ;D ;D ;D

Nope.

All of these are facts, transcripts from statements made in real life by Zelenskyy, Orbán, and trump.

But an involuntary russian asset does not have the independence to acknowledge these facts.

PS. The same PS as in the previous post.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 11:15
acknowledge these facts.
Only you argue with the facts in this topic. You are also manipulating facts for your false and propaganda conclusions. You copy snippets of phrases, dialogues, articles here, and then create propaganda. Write more, let US citizens see what Biden’s supporters are like.  ;D
I have nothing against facts. I’m just writing that your conclusions are incorrect and false.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 09, 2024, 11:19
Biden slams Trump-Orbán meeting in Florida

https://www.politico.eu/article/us-president-joe-biden-slams-trump-orban-meeting-florida-mar-a-lago/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/us-president-joe-biden-slams-trump-orban-meeting-florida-mar-a-lago/)

… Zakarpattia Oblast, Ukraine talks in progress..?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 09, 2024, 11:29
acknowledge these facts.
Only you argue with the facts in this topic. You are also manipulating facts for your false and propaganda conclusions. You copy snippets of phrases, dialogues, articles here, and then create propaganda. Write more, let US citizens see what Biden’s supporters are like.  ;D
I have nothing against facts. I’m just writing that your conclusions are incorrect and false.

As I said, only for you and a few "illuminati" the evidence points in a different direction.

One more time: the "peace" Orbán mentioned and you cheered with a +100 is exactly the same "peace" Trump claimed to achieve if elected president, the exact same "peace" Zelenskyy warned you about, and the exact same "peace" putin welcomes.

Only an "Illuminati" would refuse to see the sequence of facts for what they are: Orbán, trump, and putin have shared interests.

PS. You already know that illuminati = involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 11:37
useful idiot
??? ::) :'( :'(
See a doctor immediately!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 09, 2024, 11:54
useful idiot
??? ::) :'( :'(
See a doctor immediately!

As I said only an "illuminati" would understand such "peace" seeking statements as pro-Ukraine and cheer them with +100:

https://twitter.com/PM_ViktorOrban/status/1763306370101588265

PS. Sarcasm translator: illuminati = involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 09, 2024, 12:00
… Bram Stalker knows that secret receipe for peace talks are Trump-Orban-Putin-Erdogan in one room, around the table…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 13:35
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/hungarys-pm-orban-supports-trump-after-florida-meeting-2024-03-09/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/hungarys-pm-orban-supports-trump-after-florida-meeting-2024-03-09/)

"Viktor Orbán, Prime Minister of Hungary, has held a meeting with Donald Trump, the future candidate for the US presidential elections from the Republicans, in the American state of Florida.

Orbán expressed his confidence that only Trump's return to the White House can bring peace on Twitter (X).

"We need leaders in the world who are respected and can bring peace. He is one of them! Come back and bring us peace, Mr. President!" Orbán wrote.

At the same time, in his Facebook video, Orbán stated that during the Trump presidency in 2017-2021 there was peace in the Middle East, as well as in Ukraine.

He added that there would be no war in Ukraine now if Trump had been re-elected in 2020.
"
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 09, 2024, 15:27
Yes, these are propaganda what-ifs, with absolutely no link to the present or the future.

This is nothing new. I already shared with you the transcript of his interview with Tucker Carlson, the MAGA ideologue and putin apologist. Read it first hand here:
https://abouthungary.hu/speeches-and-remarks/interview-with-viktor-orban-by-tucker-carlson

In this interview, he used the same what-if fallacies and outlined the same "peace" plan:

We cannot beat them (i.e. russians)

Peace. Immediately. Call back Trump. That’s the only way out.
...
We should make a deal with the Russians.

So if there is no money and there is no equipment from the West and especially from United States, the war is over.

As I already said: only an involuntary russian asset would understand such "peace" seeking statements as pro-Ukraine and cheer them with +100:

https://twitter.com/PM_ViktorOrban/status/1763306370101588265

PS. involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 09, 2024, 16:23
… don’t worry, Trump and Orban will find a solution…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 16:52
We cannot beat them (i.e. russians)
Peace. Immediately. Call back Trump. That’s the only way out.
...
We should make a deal with the Russians.
So if there is no money and there is no equipment from the West and especially from United States, the war is over.
Zero Talent, why are you so nervous? Take a sedative tablet.
I have as bad a view of Orbán as you do. I do not support such statements and consider them criminal. But it’s not enough that you don’t like Hungary, that’s not enough. We need sanctions against Hungary from the EU and NATO. Biden is doing nothing, the EU is doing nothing. So Orban is working off the Russians’ money.
I don’t care what Orban meant or didn’t mean. I quoted what sounds correct.
At the moment, Biden bears full responsibility for the policies he pursues. Trump hasn't implemented any policies yet, so there's no need to blame Trump for something he hasn't done yet.
Biden will be tried this year for his policies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 09, 2024, 17:06
Europe must be ready for US to quit Nato, diplomats warn.
Capitals must ‘do the planning’ and reconsider defence capabilities in light of threats by Donald Trump.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/09/europe-must-be-ready-for-us-to-leave-nato-diplomats-warn/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/09/europe-must-be-ready-for-us-to-leave-nato-diplomats-warn/)

 ;D ;D ;D
the parasites began to stir. I love how everyone is afraid of Trump.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 09, 2024, 17:17
So Orban is working off the Russians’ money.

Exactly!
And your beloved trump just welcomed with open arms putin's Trojan horse in the EU and NATO. Last night, he praised him like this:

There’s nobody that’s better, smarter or a better leader than Viktor Orban!

He's fantastic! He does a great job.

He's a non-controversial figure because he says: "this is the way it’s gonna be", and that’s the end of it. Right?

He’s the boss.

He's a great leader, a fantastic leader in Europe and all over the world!


I don’t care what Orban meant or didn’t mean. I quoted what sounds correct.
Of course you did!
The selective editing of conveniently extracted quotes that change meanings is a well-known propaganda technique.

That's exactly what involuntary russian assets do.

PS. involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 02:36
Pope says Ukraine should have 'courage of the white flag' of negotiations

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-says-ukraine-should-have-courage-white-flag-negotiations-2024-03-09/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-says-ukraine-should-have-courage-white-flag-negotiations-2024-03-09/)

… another KGB agent…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 02:40
Convict mobilisation bill to be submitted to Ukraine's parliament next week

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/9/7445744/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/9/7445744/index.amp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 03:25
Pope says Ukraine should have 'courage of the white flag' of negotiations

another KGB agent…
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 03:26
Convict mobilisation bill to be submitted to Ukraine's parliament next week

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/9/7445744/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/9/7445744/index.amp)
This applies only to those who wish. But it is not a fact that the law will be adopted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 03:36
Last night, he praised him like this:

There’s nobody that’s better, smarter or a better leader than Viktor Orban!
He's fantastic! He does a great job.
He's a non-controversial figure because he says: "this is the way it’s gonna be", and that’s the end of it. Right?
He’s the boss.
He's a great leader, a fantastic leader in Europe and all over the world!

As a presidential candidate and as a non-official, Trump can say whatever he wants. Now Trump’s main task is to get the maximum number of votes in the elections.
As for these statements of his, as for me, he is excellent at trolling Europarasites.  ;D ;D ;D And this has a good effect, for the benefit of Ukraine.
And I’ll write 100 times, I don’t care what the politician says, I’m only interested in the results of the policy.

The selective editing of conveniently extracted quotes that change meanings is a well-known propaganda technique.
This is what you do here. I copied the text from Reuters. The conclusions are correct and truthful.  ;D ;D ;D

Biden is already a political corpse. You're trying in vain here. I hope Trump puts him in prison as well. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 08:03
https://youtu.be/cU_iUJsoerE (https://youtu.be/cU_iUJsoerE)

Today is March 10th, a big holiday. Day of the national anthem of Ukraine!


Glory to Ukraine!
________
Anthem text:

The glory of Ukraine has not yet perished, nor the will.
Still upon us, young brothers, fate shall smile.
Our enemies shall vanish, like dew in the sun.
We too shall rule, brothers, our country.

Soul and body shall we lay down for our freedom,
And we will show, brothers, that we are of the Cossack nation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 10, 2024, 08:12
Pope says Ukraine should have 'courage of the white flag' of negotiations

another KGB agent…
+100
When anyone but trump is only saying things against Ukraine they are KGB agents.

When trump is praising putin's lap dog, calling him fantastic and a great leader, when he openly admires putin, when he tells putin that he can do "whatever the h.e.l.l. he wants," trump is not a KGB agent but merely a liar, a politician lying to his base to get their votes.
Right!

Of course, only an "Illuminati" would see the truth behind his lies and be convinced that, in fact, he is anti-putin.

PS. Illuminati = involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 08:13
Boris Johnson flew to Venezuela to hold secret talks with Maduro

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-ex-pm-boris-johnson-flew-venezuela-secret-talks-maduro-ukraine-russia/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-ex-pm-boris-johnson-flew-venezuela-secret-talks-maduro-ukraine-russia/)

… what is happening…?! KGB agents are really active this days…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 08:15
Pope says Ukraine should have 'courage of the white flag' of negotiations

another KGB agent…
+100

When anyone but trump is only saying things against Ukraine they are KGB agents.

When trump is praising putin's lap dog, calling him fantastic and a great leader, when he openly admires putin, when he tells putin that he can do "whatever . he wants," trump is just a liar, a politician lying to his base to get their votes.
Right!

Of course, only an "Illuminati" would see the truth behind his lies and be convinced that, in fact, he is anti-putin.

PS. Illuminati = involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot

… from what I have learned from Bram Stocker, everyone in the world is KGB agent…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 10, 2024, 08:25

… from what I have learned from Bram Stocker, everyone in the world is KGB agent…
Everyone, except trump, because he is secretly plotting against putin while publicly endorsing him, and his allies...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 08:46
Boris Johnson flew to Venezuela to hold secret talks with Maduro

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-ex-pm-boris-johnson-flew-venezuela-secret-talks-maduro-ukraine-russia/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-ex-pm-boris-johnson-flew-venezuela-secret-talks-maduro-ukraine-russia/)

… what is happening…?! KGB agents are really active this days…
Boris Johnson is not a KGB agent. He is a friend of Ukraine.

Yes trucic, ask me. Here I will tell you who is a KGB agent and who is not an agent.

Don't listen to trolls from Democrats. The closer to the elections, the angrier they become, since their Biden will 100% lose the US presidential election.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 10:02
… Bram Stoker, are you sure that he is not a KGB agent…?! If he is a friend of Ukraine, what is the role of Maduro…?! They are planning something against KGB commandant, Biden…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 10:23
… David Sacks about human rights in Ukraine…
https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1766688874024079835
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 10, 2024, 10:41
A visual for our involuntary russian asset - the striking difference between true republicans and the maga cult:

PS. involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 10:54
... Reagan was a KGB agent and Trump must be a member of Freemasonry, wall builder...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 12:28
Italy opposes sending NATO troops to Ukraine

https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/03/10/italy-opposes-sending-nato-troops-to-ukraine/

… secret KGB personnel being exposed day-by-day…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 12:50
During a rally held in Georgia on Saturday, US President Joe Biden was interrupted by a pro-Palestine protester by calling him "a dictator, 'Genocide Joe.’"

https://youtu.be/z4LK2IsBljc?si=-wnJRsqiMT5oF_fM

… Bram Stoker, are you in Georgia…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 12:50
Italy opposes sending NATO troops to Ukraine

https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/03/10/italy-opposes-sending-nato-troops-to-ukraine/

… secret KGB personnel being exposed day-by-day…
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 12:52
Ukraine's Foreign Minister responds to Pope's calls for "white flag": "Our flag is yellow and blue".

Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba has responded to Pope Francis’s suggestion that Ukraine should have what he called the "courage of the white flag" and negotiate an end to the war with Russia.

Quote from Kuleba: "Our flag is a yellow and blue one. This is the flag by which we live, die, and prevail. We shall never raise any other flags."

Details: Kuleba said that the strongest in the battle between good and evil "is the one who stands on the side of good rather than attempting to put them on the same footing and call it ‘negotiations’."

"[W]hen it comes to the white flag, we know [the] Vatican's strategy from the first half of the twentieth century. I urge [them] to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past and to support Ukraine and its people in their just struggle for their lives," Kuleba added.

He thanked the Pope for his "constant prayers for peace", adding that Ukraine continues "to hope that after two years of devastating war in the heart of Europe, the Pontiff will find an opportunity to pay an Apostolic visit to Ukraine to support over a million Ukrainian Catholics, over five million Greek-Catholics, all Christians, and all Ukrainians."

Background:

In response to Pope Francis’s statement, Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski said that the Pope should address Russian President Vladimir Putin and urge him to withdraw his occupation forces from Ukraine.
On 9 March, Reuters reported that Pope Francis said in an interview this February that Ukraine should have what he called "the courage of the white flag" and negotiate an end to the war with Russia.
The Vatican later clarified the Pope’s words, stressing that he called for a ceasefire and the resumption of negotiations, not the surrender of Ukraine, and emphasising the Pope’s words that "Negotiation is never a surrender."
Latvian President Edgars Rinkēvičs said, in response to the Pope’s comment, that "one cannot surrender to evil".

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/10/7445803/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/10/7445803/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 12:58
Canada has approved the transfer of about 80,000 aircraft missiles to Ukraine.

The closer we get to Trump's arrival in the White House, the more help there will be from the EU and other NATO countries.
As I understand it, for the last 2 years, the bas.tard Biden and the cowardly Democrats have been slowing down the transfer of weapons to Ukraine in normal quantities. Now the NATO countries already see that Biden is a political corpse, and they are starting to think and act.
Trump! Crush the Democrats! Crush the Europarasites!

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 10, 2024, 13:53
Canada has approved the transfer of about 80,000 aircraft missiles to Ukraine.

The closer we get to Trump's arrival in the White House, the more help there will be from the EU and other NATO countries.
As I understand it, for the last 2 years, the bas.tard Biden and the cowardly Democrats have been slowing down the transfer of weapons to Ukraine in normal quantities. Now the NATO countries already see that Biden is a political corpse, and they are starting to think and act.
Trump! Crush the Democrats! Crush the Europarasites!

 ;D ;D ;D

By now I am 100% sure that I am a Russian troll. Over the past few pages, my initial suspicions have become increasingly clear.
You do it subtly, but well. A good Putin disciple! Respect!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 10, 2024, 14:01
…. Bram Stoker was right - it seems that fictional beings DO exist in Ukraine… Voldemort tried to escape advance of Orcs…

Voldemort was detained in Ukraine, trying to escape from mobilization in Moldova.

https://t.me/intelslava/55889

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 14:05
By now I am 100% sure that I am a Russian troll.
;D ;D ;D
You are self-critical!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 10, 2024, 15:57
By now I am 100% sure that I am a Russian troll.
;D ;D ;D
You are self-critical!

?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 10, 2024, 16:25

The closer we get to Trump's arrival in the White House, the more help there will be from the EU and other NATO countries.

When trump and his maga cult stop all aid for Ukraine, useful idiots will still find a way to blame everyone else but trump.
Mark my words.

Because that's how brainwashing works.
  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 10, 2024, 16:35
By now I am 100% sure that I am a Russian troll.
;D ;D ;D
You are self-critical!

?
You wrote in English that you are a Russian troll.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 10, 2024, 16:50
By now I am 100% sure that I am a Russian troll.
;D ;D ;D
You are self-critical!

?
You wrote in English that you are a Russian troll.

Ah, okay, my bad! You are a russian troll.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 10, 2024, 16:57
By now I am 100% sure that I am a Russian troll.
;D ;D ;D
You are self-critical!

?
You wrote in English that you are a Russian troll.

Ah, okay, my bad! You are a russian troll.

Nah... you are giving him too much credit.
He is an ordinary maga cultist, all of them putin's useful idiots, no different than his own "orcs".
He needs a mirror to see his own "orc-ish" reflection. Here is one, below:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 03:29
By now I am 100% sure that I am a Russian troll.
;D ;D ;D
You are self-critical!

?
You wrote in English that you are a Russian troll.

Ah, okay, my bad!
;D ;D ;D
People always immediately write what they think and write the truth, it’s reflexive and automatic. This is psychology. There is such a science.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 04:37
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12983807/BORIS-JOHNSON-negronis-Trump-presidency-just-world-needs.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12983807/BORIS-JOHNSON-negronis-Trump-presidency-just-world-needs.html)

BORIS JOHNSON: The global wokerati are trembling so violently you can hear the ice tinkling in their negronis... but a Trump presidency could be just what the world needs.

This article is about why Biden and the Democrats are ass.holes, motherfuckers, turds, asss, shitass and blockheads. An article about why only Trump can restore justice in the world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 04:45
Results for 2023.
1. Europarasites did not fulfill their obligation to supply 1 million shells to Ukraine. Only 300 thousand shells were delivered.
2. US Democrats did not give Ukraine aircraft, tanks and missiles. Zero weapons delivered under Lend-Lease.
3. Biden, having $6 billion available, is not trying to help Ukraine with weapons in 2024.
4. Biden remains silent on the Republican demand to provide a goal and plan for assistance to Ukraine.
5. Putin twice supported Biden as a candidate for the US presidential election.

The criminal policies of the EU and the USA led to the disruption of the offensive of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in 2023 and the loss of the city of Avdiivka in 2024.

My question is, what should Trump do now regarding Europarasites? Does the United States need to be in NATO and protect the friends of Russian Europeans at the expense of the United States? The questions are rhetorical...
One thing I can say is that Trump will definitely crush the Europarasites.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 04:55
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/11/7445845/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/11/7445845/)

Ukrainian film 20 Days in Mariupol has won an Oscar

The Oscars 2024, the world's most prestigious film award ceremony, took place in Los Angeles on the night of 10-11 March (Kyiv time).

20 Days in Mariupol has won the Best Documentary Feature Film. The documentary directed by Mstyslav Chernov has become the third Ukrainian film to be nominated for an Academy Award in the 96 years of its existence.

Quote from Mstyslav Chernov: "This is the first Oscar in Ukrainian history. And I’m honoured. But probably I will be the first director on this stage who will say I wish I had never made this film. I wish to be able to exchange this for Russia never attacking Ukraine, never occupying our cities.

Russians are killing tens of thousands of my fellow Ukrainians. I wish for them to release all the hostages, all the soldiers who are protecting their lands, all the civilians who are now in their jails. But I cannot change history. I cannot change the past.

We altogether: you. I’m calling on you, some of the most talented people in the world. We can make sure that the history record is set straight and that the truth will prevail and that the people of Mariupol and those who have given their lives will never be forgotten, because cinema forms memories, and memories form history."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 11, 2024, 05:00
… really hope that people from EU will not see your posts about them… Biden in your universe should be praised and EU leaders adored… Ukraine is not in good position at all, but you are not doing anything to relax those positions…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 06:25
… really hope that people from EU will not see your posts about them… Biden in your universe should be praised and EU leaders adored… Ukraine is not in good position at all, but you are not doing anything to relax those positions…
I'm not a politician, so I don't need to lie. I am honest with myself, so I always write only the truth.
Some readers of this topic do not like that I write the truth.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 07:03
 ;D ;D ;D
Psychic gives Biden and Trump a 2024 tarot card reading

https://youtu.be/IfHJZm2yt6s (https://youtu.be/IfHJZm2yt6s)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 07:11
"The Long Day" is movie that Ukrainians made about themselves

Director Alan Badoev tells us how he worked on the film, and we share our impressions of watching the winner of the Cinema for Victory documentary film festival
On the second anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion, Ukrainian filmmaker Alan Badoev presented the documentary The Long Day. The peculiarity of this film is that it does not have a director of photography - it was shot on their gadgets by ordinary Ukrainians who became co-authors of the film. 12,000 people sent the director videos and photos of their lives divided into "before" and "after" on February 24, 2022.

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2024_03/thumb_files/630_360_1710079945-489.jpg)

Details can be read here:
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3837907-the-long-day-is-movie-that-ukrainians-made-about-themselves.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3837907-the-long-day-is-movie-that-ukrainians-made-about-themselves.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 11, 2024, 07:29
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12983807/BORIS-JOHNSON-negronis-Trump-presidency-just-world-needs.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12983807/BORIS-JOHNSON-negronis-Trump-presidency-just-world-needs.html)

BORIS JOHNSON: The global wokerati are trembling so violently you can hear the ice tinkling in their negronis... but a Trump presidency could be just what the world needs.

This article is about why Biden and the Democrats are ass.holes, motherfuckers, turds, asss, shitass and blockheads. An article about why only Trump can restore justice in the world.

Here is the inconvenient truth from the guy who just talked to trump about this, not some wishful thinking:

"He has a very clear vision that is hard to disagree with. He says the following: first, he will not give a single penny for the Russo-Ukrainian war. That's why the war will end, because it's obvious that Ukraine cannot stand on its own two feet. If the Americans don't give money and weapons along with the Europeans, the war will end. And if the Americans don't give money, then the Europeans won't be able to fund this war alone. And then the war will end."

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/10/7445822/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/10/7445822/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 07:44
"He has a very clear vision that is hard to disagree with. He says the following: first, he will not give a single penny for the Russo-Ukrainian war. That's why the war will end, because it's obvious that Ukraine cannot stand on its own two feet. If the Americans don't give money and weapons along with the Europeans, the war will end. And if the Americans don't give money, then the Europeans won't be able to fund this war alone. And then the war will end."

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/10/7445822/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/10/7445822/)
1. It’s good that you started reading Ukrainian news.  ;D
2.You don’t believe putin, who supported Biden in the elections, but you believe Orban. Cool.  ;D
3. Who is Orban to decide what policies Trump and the Republicans will pursue?  ;D
4.  Everything that Orban said is aimed primarily at trolling Europarasites. Ukraine is a strategic springboard for an attack on the EU. The EU understands that if the Russians occupy Ukraine, then the occupation of the EU will only be a matter of time. In any case, the war will begin on the territory of the EU countries.
5. Of course, the issue of supporting Ukraine is related to supporting the EU. If the United States decides that there is no need to protect Europarasites, then of course the United States will not hold Ukraine (a strategic bridgehead).
6. As I already wrote, the EU is capable of providing Ukraine with huge amounts of weapons; this is just a matter of EU policy. What Orban said is a lie. The Ukrainian Armed Forces know how to fight well, even with a small amount of weapons. But today we see in the media that the President of the Czech Republic has found almost 1 million shells for Ukraine.

There is already a lot of news in the media that Europarasites have begun to wake up and think about their safety. We see that the EU increasingly wants to help Ukraine. This is all the result of Trump's rhetoric alone.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 11, 2024, 07:57
It is all over the news. I used this source for you, so you cannot deny its veracity.
 
Orbán is simply reporting his discussion he had 2 days ago with the guy who will offer Ukraine on a silver platter to putin.
He has no reason to lie about it or to contradict his friend trump, to embarass him and lose the support he wanted so badly to secure, with his unofficial visit.
They are perfectly aligned, trump and his maga politicians said the same, your president knows it, as well as every other logical person.

On the other hand, putin has every reason to mess with your brain and sow discord among allies.

Only an involuntary russian asset would believe the KGB agent.

It's interesting that you are now slowly warming up to the idea that trump may not help Ukraine, and you will lose the aid offered by the current administration, being forced to rely solely on Europe's support. Saying that you don't need it is truly foolish...

PS. involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 08:48
It is all over the news. I used this source for you, so you cannot deny its veracity.
Don't bother yourself with such things. I am critical of the news in the Ukrainian media. Moreover, very often they copy news from the world media.


Orbán is simply reporting his discussion he had 2 days ago with the guy who will offer Ukraine on a silver platter to putin.
It's a lie. Under President Trump, not a single square meter of Ukraine was occupied.


He has no reason to lie about it or to contradict his friend trump, to embarass him and lose the support he wanted so badly to secure, with his unofficial visit.
They are perfectly aligned, trump and his maga politicians said the same, your president knows it, as well as every other logical person.
::) ::) ::)
Propaganda from the Democrats began.
I have already written what I think on this issue.


It's interesting that you are now slowly warming up to the idea that trump may not help Ukraine, and you will lose the aid offered by the current administration, being forced to rely solely on Europe's support. Saying that you don't need it is truly foolish...

You didn't read what I wrote earlier. I agree with the Republicans that only the EU should take over the war with russia. The US must deal with China, Iran and North Korea. The Third World War is not only a war between russia and Ukraine. The countries of the axis of evil want to strike at other countries and regions of the world.
Therefore, I support the idea that the United States should not help Ukraine with weapons. Biden prohibits the supply of aircraft to Ukraine from other countries. I am sure that under Trump there will be no such bans.

PS. involuntary russian asset = useful idiot
Of course, I apologize, but you wrote this to yourself.  ;D ;D ;D
Also, if you want to have constructive communication with me, I recommend that you do not use trolling.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 11, 2024, 09:06
The Ukrainian media reported like everybody else a TV interview with Orbán. They transcribed Orbán's words. There is nothing to be critical about. There is no opinion nor speculation, just facts.

Again, there is zero chance that Orbán lied about it, since he would never want to contradict and embarrass his friend, trump, and lose the support he wanted to secure with his unofficial visit.
They are perfectly aligned: trump will stop all support for Ukraine (you seem to like it now) and putin will win.

Under the russian boot, you will be able to cheer about trump's fight against China and Iran, if putin will allow you to do so.

It's so foolish to want resources destined for Ukraine to be diverted and start new wars against China and Iran!

Only an involuntary Russian asset would want that.


PS. involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 09:10
Trump will stop all support for Ukraine, and Putin will win.
::) ::) ::) :'( :'( :'(

It's so foolish to want resources destined for Ukraine to be diverted and start new wars against China and Iran.
Yes, the main resources should be directed against China. It is only thanks to China that the Russians started the war, continue the war and support their economy. China is the main enemy of the whole world. Russia is just a servant of China.

Zero Talent, you are either a democrat troll or a useful idiot, or both.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 11, 2024, 09:16
Only putin's useful idiots would want resources destined to fight putin to be diverted elsewhere.

This is undeniable.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 09:26
Only putin's useful idiots would want resources destined to fight putin to be diverted elsewhere.

This is undeniable.
What resources are we talking about? Neither the United States, nor even the EU, have even begun to truly spend their resources on the third world war. What Ukraine received in 2 years is a meager amount close to zero.
So yes, US resources should be directed against China. EU resources should be directed against the Russians.

But I will stop the discussion with that one, I don’t like communicating with trolls. I am only interested in cultural and constructive dialogues.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 11, 2024, 09:56
… I will definetly mark him as a KGB agent, like the rest of the world population… except Trump… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 11, 2024, 09:56
Only putin's useful idiots would want resources destined to fight putin to be diverted elsewhere.

This is undeniable.
What resources are we talking about? Neither the United States, nor even the EU, have even begun to truly spend their resources on the third world war. What Ukraine received in 2 years is a meager amount close to zero.
So yes, US resources should be directed against China.
Resources like the $75 billion of US money already spent helping Ukraine defend itself.

Resources like the $60 billion of military aid blocked by trump's maga lackeys in the US Congress.

Like a true involuntary russian asset, you don’t need that.

I am only interested in cultural and constructive dialogues.

You want to send Biden to the electric chair (a true example of what you mean by “cultural and constructive dialogue”) for giving you what you don’t need.

You don't even realize how dumb that is!

PS. involuntary russian asset =
useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 11, 2024, 10:26
A Russian Drone Spotted A Ukrainian Patriot Air-Defense Crew Convoying Near The Front Line. Soon, A Russian Hypersonic Missile Streaked Down.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/03/09/a-russian-drone-spotted-a-ukrainian-patriot-air-defense-crew-convoying-near-the-front-line-soon-a-russian-hypersonic-missile-streaked-down/?sh=270e41473514 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/03/09/a-russian-drone-spotted-a-ukrainian-patriot-air-defense-crew-convoying-near-the-front-line-soon-a-russian-hypersonic-missile-streaked-down/?sh=270e41473514)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on March 11, 2024, 12:40
I expected nothing less from fellow KGB agent Merkel. The Germans do not understand that Scholz is leading their country to occupation by Russian orcs.

A song that comes to mind:

"Well, the milkman's a spy, and the grocer keeps on following me,
And the woman next door's an undercover for the K.G.B.,
...
Oh there ain't no cure for acute schizophrenia disease."

The Kinks, Acute Schizophrenia Paranoia Blues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFd4WBnOBv4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFd4WBnOBv4)



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 13:02
A Russian Drone Spotted A Ukrainian Patriot Air-Defense Crew Convoying Near The Front Line. Soon, A Russian Hypersonic Missile Streaked Down.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/03/09/a-russian-drone-spotted-a-ukrainian-patriot-air-defense-crew-convoying-near-the-front-line-soon-a-russian-hypersonic-missile-streaked-down/?sh=270e41473514 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/03/09/a-russian-drone-spotted-a-ukrainian-patriot-air-defense-crew-convoying-near-the-front-line-soon-a-russian-hypersonic-missile-streaked-down/?sh=270e41473514)
The rhetoric of the text is joyful, obviously Forbes is happy for the Russians.

1. It is not known exactly what was destroyed.
2. The cowardly ass.hole Biden did not give Ukraine the F16, so Ukraine is trying to accomplish aviation tasks with the help of Patriot Air-Defense. Naturally, the Patriot is being brought to the front line and it may be a target for the Russians.
3. Any equipment is a consumable item. You can only feel sorry for the people (crew). Even if the Russians hit Patriot once in two years, this indicates good use of it by the Ukrainians.
4. Whatever it was, the mistake was in the very close movement of the equipment; the distance should have been much greater.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 13:05
"Well, the milkman's a spy, and the grocer keeps on following me,
And the woman next door's an undercover for the K.G.B.,
Yes, you Germans know all this very well and are familiar. I think that’s how it was in the GDR. It is very possible that the GDR will soon return to Germany again along with the KGB and Stasi. Then you will sing this song again.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 11, 2024, 14:02
Russia Claims Advances In Luhansk; Ukraine Says Situation 'Difficult'

https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-bakhmut-western-support/32272184.html (https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-bakhmut-western-support/32272184.html)

… it seems that Pokrovsk is a new prey for Russians…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 11, 2024, 14:20
"Well, the milkman's a spy, and the grocer keeps on following me,
And the woman next door's an undercover for the K.G.B.,
Yes, you Germans know all this very well and are familiar. I think that’s how it was in the GDR. It is very possible that the GDR will soon return to Germany again along with the KGB and Stasi. Then you will sing this song again.

No, I don't know that and I've lived here for a while.

The Kinks are a British band, by the way.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 14:54
Russia Claims Advances In Luhansk; Ukraine Says Situation 'Difficult'

https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-bakhmut-western-support/32272184.html (https://www.rferl.org/amp/ukraine-bakhmut-western-support/32272184.html)

… it seems that Pokrovsk is a new prey for Russians…
The Russians will not be able to reach Pokrovsk.
Russian orcs and terrorists are constantly shelling Ukrainian cities and the houses of civilians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 14:55
"Well, the milkman's a spy, and the grocer keeps on following me,
And the woman next door's an undercover for the K.G.B.,
Yes, you Germans know all this very well and are familiar. I think that’s how it was in the GDR. It is very possible that the GDR will soon return to Germany again along with the KGB and Stasi. Then you will sing this song again.

No, I don't know that and I've lived here for a while.

The Kinks are a British band, by the way.
You probably didn’t live in the GDR. When you live there, I think this song will be relevant to you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 11, 2024, 16:43
"Therefore, I support the idea that the United States should not help Ukraine with weapons."


Have you been drinking?

For hundreds of pages you have been texting us that Biden belongs in prison and in the electric chair because, according to you, he doesn't support Ukraine, and now you say that you think that's good?

You are a Russian troll!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on March 11, 2024, 18:18
"Well, the milkman's a spy, and the grocer keeps on following me,
And the woman next door's an undercover for the K.G.B.,
Yes, you Germans know all this very well and are familiar. I think that’s how it was in the GDR. It is very possible that the GDR will soon return to Germany again along with the KGB and Stasi. Then you will sing this song again.

No, I don't know that and I've lived here for a while.

The Kinks are a British band, by the way.
You probably didn’t live in the GDR. When you live there, I think this song will be relevant to you.

The song is about people who see KGB agents where there aren't any.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 18:22
The song is about people who see KGB agents where there aren't any.
I understand what the song is about. But it will be understood differently by those who live in Russian-occupied territories or in the GDR.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 11, 2024, 18:25
"Therefore, I support the idea that the United States should not help Ukraine with weapons."
Have you been drinking?
For hundreds of pages you have been texting us that Biden belongs in prison and in the electric chair because, according to you, he doesn't support Ukraine, and now you say that you think that's good?
You are a Russian troll!
Yesterday you called yourself a Russian troll. There is no need to throw your nickname onto me now.  ;D

Re-read the entire context that I wrote. Re-read all my posts 5 times in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 12, 2024, 07:16
 ;D 8) ;D 8)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIdZS2hWwAUMeqR?format=jpg&name=medium)


Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 12, 2024, 09:00
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GHDnYZ2XAAAApmG?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 13, 2024, 00:20
… French KGB propaganda…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 13, 2024, 04:13
Today's crimes of Russians in Ukraine.

Russian drone attack on Sumy. The drone hit the fifth floor and destroyed the entire entrance. There are wounded and it became known about the dead.
https://youtu.be/ayqQvDU58PA?t=42 (https://youtu.be/ayqQvDU58PA?t=42)

The Russians attacked Kryvyi Rih. The rocket hit the 9th floor. It is known about three dead and almost 40 injured, among them - 10 children. Five more people are in critical condition in operating rooms.
https://youtu.be/GlblrSuwbE4?t=76 (https://youtu.be/GlblrSuwbE4?t=76)
_______

All these are the results of a cowardly and friendly policy towards Russia on the part of Biden and the Democrats.

The savagery and dumb is not my proposal to put Biden in the electric chair, the savagery is the hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians in the 21st century due to the fault of US Democrats and in particular Biden. US culture includes the death penalty by electric chair. This is not savagery, this is US culture. I'm not proposing to hang or shoot Biden, I'm proposing cultural punishment for him.

Biden! ass.hole. Where are the Lend-Lease weapons? Where is the aviation? Where are the tanks? Where are the missiles?

Where are the sanctions against Russians and third countries trading and supporting russia?
The answer is obvious, Biden work off his support from putin in the upcoming elections by supporting the killing of Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 13, 2024, 07:59
1. https://eng.obozrevatel.com/section-news/news-eu-lifts-sanctions-against-russian-billionaire-he-plans-to-build-yandex-2-0-in-europe-13-03-2024.html

EU lifts sanctions against Russian billionaire: he plans to build Yandex 2.0 in Europe.

Arkady Volozh, a billionaire co-founder of Russia's largest company Yandex, has been removed from the EU sanctions list.
_______
Idiots! Yandex has been banned in Ukraine since 2014. This system collects data on the geolocation of people, energy and military installations and is used by the Russians to launch missile strikes and sabotage activities. If Yandex is being deployed in the EU, it means that the EU will soon be occupied by the Russians.

2. The EU also lifted sanctions against the former vice-president of AFK Sistema PAO Sergei Mndoyants and the head of the European branch of the Night Wolves motorcycle club Josef Hamblek.
_____
Night Wolves motorcycle are fans of putin who carry Russian propaganda wherever they appear. They can also perform other sabotage tasks.
AFK Sistema finances the Russian Na.zi regime.


Trump! Crush the Europarasites!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 13, 2024, 11:53
… why UA tries to attack border posts…?! Those PR attacks are suicidal from the start… Bram Stocker, what you think aboit that…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 13, 2024, 12:01
… cluster bomb rain over Ukrainian helicopters…
https://t.me/vorposte/53516
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 13, 2024, 12:44
… why UA tries to attack border posts…?! Those PR attacks are suicidal from the start… Bram Stocker, what you think aboit that…?!
1. Who is Bram?
2. What kind of attack by the Ukrainian Armed Forces are we talking about?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 13, 2024, 12:45
… cluster bomb rain over Ukrainian helicopters…
https://t.me/vorposte/53516
There is no need to post Russian propaganda from Russian-language telegram channels here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 13, 2024, 12:52
… don’t forget that I’m KGB agent… please provide other channel video, this one was only one I have found about this attack… you can not ignore facts of ongoing war…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 13, 2024, 13:14
… why UA tries to attack border posts…?! Those PR attacks are suicidal from the start… Bram Stocker, what you think aboit that…?!
1. Who is Bram?
2. What kind of attack by the Ukrainian Armed Forces are we talking about?

… this one…

Russia says it killed 234 fighters while thwarting an incursion from Ukraine

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-drone-attacks-27e3f102dfb361e39b979f030db17f8f

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 13, 2024, 14:07
1. I don't read Russian propaganda.

2. Russian volunteer soldiers announce strikes on Russian positions in Belgorod and Kursk

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/13/7446267/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/13/7446267/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 13, 2024, 14:20
… so ORCS are attacking ORCS…?! Is that some other kind or tribe of Russian orcs…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 03:20
… so ORCS are attacking ORCS…?! Is that some other kind or tribe of Russian orcs…?!
They are called good Russians, but there are very few of them. At this stage, these Russians are helping to eliminate Russian soldiers and other Russians who are defending the Russian Empire. They also carry out the task of pulling the Russian army away from the front line and may create a springboard for encircling Russian orcs in eastern Ukraine through Russian territory. In any case, there should be a war on Russian territory too.

The main goal of the entire civilized world should be the complete collapse of the Russian empire. How far these good Russians are ready for this and understand it is unknown. But if the Russians came to Ukraine and are ready to help the Ukrainian Armed Forces, the help must be accepted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 04:54
… ok, we have learned that good Orcs exist… but, accordingly how good this action ended, that tribe of Orcs is in problem… and you are asking that bad Orc empire to be disassementeled because you are now in problem with them…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 05:07
… ok, we have learned that good Orcs exist… but, accordingly how good this action ended, that tribe of Orcs is in problem… and you are asking that bad Orc empire to be disassementeled because you are now in problem with them…?!
1. Not all Russian orcs, but only the majority, 80-90 percent.
2. The Russian Empire threatens not only Ukraine, but the entire civilized world. In order for this empire to be eliminated, the US must have Republicans in power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 05:12
United Nations. What is the point of this organization? All she does is justify violence. Its security council includes two fascist countries, russia and China. And these two countries block any decisions against Nazism and terrorism.
Either the United Nations must be abolished, or reformed by removing fascist countries from the security council. Also, China should be excluded from the United Nations, and Taiwan should take its place (as it was originally).
I think the EU and the USA need to leave the United Nations and form a new world organization after the end of the Third World War.
To implement everything I wrote, there should be no democrats in power in the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 05:16
I am sure that US Democrats should not run for US President. These Democratic presidents have no achievements; they pursue policies aimed at supporting Russians and world terrorism.
For reference, the USSR was destroyed when the US President was a Republican.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 05:29
EU! Return Ukrainian refugees to Ukraine! Of course, I understand that the European Union is happy that the Russians are waging war in Ukraine and thanks to this, the EU can solve its demographic problems and improve the economy through the labor of Ukrainians. This explains the supply of small quantities of weapons to Ukraine and trade with Russian EU countries.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 05:56
Flight in the trunk" for €340,000: a minibus with 34 people in the cargo compartment tried to enter Romania

https://unn.ua/en/amp/flight-in-the-trunk-for-euro340000-a-minibus-with-34-people-in-the-cargo-compartment-tried-to-enter-romania

… in following videos, officers explain rights to detained men…

https://twitter.com/tweetsNV/status/1766092576451407880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1766092576451407880%7Ctwgr%5E92bfbdab99bf14c2d4b2a5a0dddf9e250278af24%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-4091605054133633922.ampproject.net%2F2402231941000%2Fframe.html

… people are not just running from a war, but because of this… who will voluntarily go back home when treated like this…?’
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 06:01
This week the fascist Russian empire will re-elect the Hitler of the 21st century, putin. I am sure that 90% of genetic Russian slaves and orcs will vote for putin. The remaining 10% of slaves do not organize any protests.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 06:04
who will voluntarily go back home when treated like this…?’
How are they being treated wrong? These cowards stuffed themselves into the car.  ;D ;D ;D

I spoke not only about men, but also about women and children. The EU loves to steal women and children from Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 06:27
This week the fascist Russian empire will re-elect the Hitler of the 21st century, putin. I am sure that 90% of genetic Russian slaves and orcs will vote for putin. The remaining 10% of slaves do not organize any protests.
… after everything happened, will you again vote for a same predsident of your country….?! Or will rethink twice…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 06:39
trucic, who are you asking your question to? And what is the essence of your question?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 07:03

For reference, the USSR was destroyed when the US President was a Republican.
As mentioned many times before, that Republican Party doesn't exist anymore. It has been hijacked by trump's maga cult.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 08:17
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on March 14, 2024, 08:21
EU! Return Ukrainian refugees to Ukraine!

They are free to return to the Ukraine whenever they want.


Of course, I understand that the European Union is happy that the Russians are waging war in Ukraine and thanks to this, the EU can solve its demographic problems and improve the economy through the labor of Ukrainians. This explains the supply of small quantities of weapons to Ukraine and trade with Russian EU countries.

Cheap Russian gas did more for hour economy than a few Ukrainians, most of whom don't work, anyway, could ever contribute.

We are still supporting the Ukraine in its fight against the Russian invaders, because it is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 08:26
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…

What are you talking about?
Nobody wants to conquer russia.

People in the world must understand that russia must be made to withdraw within its internationally recognized borders.

But russia is winning the information war, including with the help of its useful idiots.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 08:40
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…
1. Russia does not need to be conquered because it is an empire. Russia can be defeated militarily, but not for the purpose of occupying its territories. More precisely, it would be correct to send troops into the territory of this empire, but only for the safety of the Russians themselves. The main goal is the disintegration of the Russian empire into national countries. A lot of oppressed peoples are under the yoke of the Russians.
2. Ukraine cannot stop the war. Ukraine repels attacks and de-occupies its territories. The war can only be stopped by the Russian orcs if they withdraw their troops from the territory of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 08:46
EU! Return Ukrainian refugees to Ukraine!
They are free to return to the Ukraine whenever they want.
Beautiful "democratic" words. And the result is the same as during the Second World War.
People are susceptible to propaganda, and the EU is doing nothing to stop the theft of people from Ukraine. Poland said today that it does not want Ukrainians to leave because they are a good labor resource.

Cheap Russian gas did more for hour economy than a few Ukrainians, most of whom don't work, anyway, could ever contribute.
We are still supporting the Ukraine in its fight against the Russian invaders, because it is the right thing to do.
It's a lie. Most Ukrainians work in EU countries. Ukrainians even work in Germany, but illegally. Perhaps some Ukrainians do not work in Germany, but this is only because the Germans pay large benefits and do not pursue a policy of encouraging people to work. And many Germans themselves are on welfare and do not want to work. This is German policy, stupid policy.
Russian gas is just an energy carrier, but you need people who can still give birth to children and create services and products.

The EU is buying up Ukrainians with the help of propaganda and money. This is vile politics. The EU is just as much a marauder as russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 08:51
People in the world must understand that russia must be made to withdraw within its internationally recognized borders.
Only friends of Russians - democrats - say this. This is a stupid and cowardly policy. An empire cannot exist within its own borders, this is an axiom. Any empire rests only on wars, murders and occupation.

Zero Talent is a Democratic troll who follows Putin's orders to support Biden. Putin has already addressed the trolls twice and said that Biden is the best president for russia.

If the Democrats remain in power, and the *insult removed* Biden remains in power, no one will be able to force the Russians to leave Ukraine. Moreover, over time, all of Ukraine will be occupied and the EU countries will also be occupied.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 08:53
Of course, if there were no democrats in the United States and Ukraine received enough weapons, the Russian army could be eliminated on the territory of Ukraine and the Russians could be expelled from Ukraine. But this is not a solution to the problem called russia, it is just a temporary measure.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 09:04
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…
1. Russia does not need to be conquered because it is an empire. Russia can be defeated militarily, but not for the purpose of occupying its territories. More precisely, it would be correct to send troops into the territory of this empire, but only for the safety of the Russians themselves. The main goal is the disintegration of the Russian empire into national countries. A lot of oppressed peoples are under the yoke of the Russians.
2. Ukraine cannot stop the war. Ukraine repels attacks and de-occupies its territories. The war can only be stopped by the Russian orcs if they withdraw their troops from the territory of Ukraine.

Yes!


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 09:06
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…
1. Russia does not need to be conquered because it is an empire. Russia can be defeated militarily, but not for the purpose of occupying its territories. More precisely, it would be correct to send troops into the territory of this empire, but only for the safety of the Russians themselves. The main goal is the disintegration of the Russian empire into national countries. A lot of oppressed peoples are under the yoke of the Russians.
2. Ukraine cannot stop the war. Ukraine repels attacks and de-occupies its territories. The war can only be stopped by the Russian orcs if they withdraw their troops from the territory of Ukraine.


… @ZeroTalent, THIS!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 09:07
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…

What are you talking about?
Nobody wants to conquer russia.

People in the world must understand that russia must be made to withdraw within its internationally recognized borders.

But russia is winning the information war, including with the help of its useful idiots.

… are you reading Bram Stoker posts about Orcs and what EU needs to do…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 09:49
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…
1. Russia does not need to be conquered because it is an empire. Russia can be defeated militarily, but not for the purpose of occupying its territories. More precisely, it would be correct to send troops into the territory of this empire, but only for the safety of the Russians themselves. The main goal is the disintegration of the Russian empire into national countries. A lot of oppressed peoples are under the yoke of the Russians.
2. Ukraine cannot stop the war. Ukraine repels attacks and de-occupies its territories. The war can only be stopped by the Russian orcs if they withdraw their troops from the territory of Ukraine.


… @ZeroTalent, THIS!

As I said, putin’s useful idiots are helping him win the information war.

But it shouldn’t deter anyone from doing everything it takes to push russia back within its internationally recognized borders.
This must include destroying military and logistic objectives inside the aggressor's territory.

The freedom of its imperial colonies is a different matter and should not be confused with the defense against the invasion and occupation of an internationally recognized independent and sovereign country.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 10:11
This must include destroying military and logistic objectives inside the aggressor's territory.
+100
 ;D ;D ;D
This is also possible. Keep Russian orcs under constant fire control!  ;D
But only Republicans can organize this.

The freedom of its imperial colonies is a different matter and should not be confused with the defense against the invasion and occupation of an internationally recognized independent and sovereign country.
It's all the same. We need a policy aimed at eliminating fascism in russia. After the liquidation of fascism, this Russian empire itself will collapse. The Russian empire survives only thanks to fascism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 10:14
Ukrainian film 20 Days in Mariupol has won an Oscar

Not sure if it is available outside the US, but US users can watch it free on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/gvAyykRvPBo.

A must watch...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 10:23

But only Republicans can organize this.
Except that there are no Republicans left. The GOP is hijacked by trump's maga cult. He even appointed his daughter as the chairwoman of the new maga party. Nepotism is back.

What they will "organize" is Ukraine's surrender. And they are already working on it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 10:46
The Republican Party has always had dumb presidents. Trump is no worse than the previous ones and no dumber than them.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 11:02
The Republican Party has always had dumb presidents. Trump is no worse than the previous ones and no dumber than them.
 ;D ;D ;D

Not true and not a reason to elect a moron-in-chief. Reagan was not dumb at all.

The problem is that trump makes even Bush Jr look smart.

Btw:
Former President George W. Bush derided his Republican Party ... for what he said it has become in the era of Donald Trump and misinformation, describing the GOP as "isolationist, protectionist and, to a certain extent, nativist.
Bush, who has been relatively quiet on the political scene since he left office in 2009, let loose in a rare TV appearance, saying the Jan. 6 insurrection "made me sick" and was a "terrible moment in our history" that taints the image of the United States around the world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 11:28
Reagan was not dumb at all.
You should remember yet the 19th century.  ;D
As for Reagan, he was also rather dull and did poorly in school and college.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 11:31
The strength of the Republicans is not in intelligence, but in courage and weapons!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 11:36
This must include destroying military and logistic objectives inside the aggressor's territory.
+100
 ;D ;D ;D
This is also possible. Keep Russian orcs under constant fire control!  ;D
But only Republicans can organize this.

The freedom of its imperial colonies is a different matter and should not be confused with the defense against the invasion and occupation of an internationally recognized independent and sovereign country.
It's all the same. We need a policy aimed at eliminating fascism in russia. After the liquidation of fascism, this Russian empire itself will collapse. The Russian empire survives only thanks to fascism.
… does your theory works in case of Falklands islands…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 11:39
Ukrainian film 20 Days in Mariupol has won an Oscar

Not sure if it is available outside the US, but US users can watch it free on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/gvAyykRvPBo.

A must watch...

… I am not sure that involvement of politics in filmogrphy deserves Oscars… will se that when something filmed about Gaza strip does the same…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 13:23
Ukrainian film 20 Days in Mariupol has won an Oscar

Not sure if it is available outside the US, but US users can watch it free on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/gvAyykRvPBo.

A must watch...

… I am not sure that involvement of politics in filmogrphy deserves Oscars… will se that when something filmed about Gaza strip does the same…

If documenting the killing of innocent civilians, children, pregnant women, if documenting the destruction of people's homes and livelihoods, if documenting an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country is "politics," then everything else is just "politics," and we should cease appreciating all art dealing with tragedies and (the lack of) humanity.

Based on your out-of-touch comment, I don't think you watched this documentary.

Watch it first, then comment.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 13:40
… documentary about tens of thousands Palestinians killed in Gaza…?! Please send me a link…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 13:41
… suicidal adventure continues iin Kozinka… we will see tomorrow what happened there…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 14, 2024, 13:50

We need a policy aimed at eliminating fascism in russia. After the liquidation of fascism, this Russian empire itself will collapse. The Russian empire survives only thanks to fascism.


In my view, Trump clearly shows fascist traits. History has shown us that fascists often stick together rather than fight each other. Italy and Germany showed us that back then - and there are many other examples.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 14:00
… documentary about tens of thousands Palestinians killed in Gaza…?! Please send me a link…
You clearly didn't watch the movie, but that doesn't stop you from labeling something you know nothing about.

Watch it before engaging in further whataboutism. And do a basic search.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 14, 2024, 14:07
… documentary about tens of thousands Palestinians killed in Gaza…?! Please send me a link…

Both are certainly terrible.
 
But if you're suggesting that the events in Ukraine can in any way be compared to the Gaza Strip, then you've just won the competition for unqualified comments against Stoker.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 14:23
…  you are totally ignoring what is happening around the world since last century 90s… I felt hard stories on my back, from personal perpective and know what war is … I hope that you will not ever experience tragedy of war, because what happenes in Ukraine leads all of us to tragedy… Ukrainian politiacans need escalation and involvement of other parties in war… at the moment, we are speeding up to no-return-point…   
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 14:26
… documentary about tens of thousands Palestinians killed in Gaza…?! Please send me a link…

Both are certainly terrible.
 
But if you're suggesting that the events in Ukraine can in any way be compared to the Gaza Strip, then you've just won the competition for unqualified comments against Stoker.

… you DO understand what my point was…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 14, 2024, 14:40
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…

Are you talking about the fact that Putin could have "talked" instead of attacking Ukraine?

Or is your logic that the one being attacked must talk? From a miserable position?

"New Russia" was a word Putin used today in the context of "elections" already started in the more distant parts of Russia. If someone thinks like that, I don't know what the point of "talking" to him could be.

The fact is: at the beginning of the "military operation", Putin believed that Ukraine could be conquered within a few days. The brave Ukrainians - I'll leave stocker2014 out of this, because he's not fighting for his country, he's just writing about what others should do besides himself - can be proud of themselves for successfully resisting the overpowering enemy for so long!

And one day, Putin will also have a big problem explaining to the women and mothers in "his" country why so many of their husbands and sons had to die, even though Ukraine did nothing - absolutely nothing - to Russia. I hope that day comes very soon.

As for your statement "tearing the earth in two in seconds", you are right. If one of the madmen presses the button, that will be the end of humanity. No bunker will help. Not even Putin and Medvedev - and they know it!

Regarding your statement "The Ukrainian politicians need escalation and the involvement of other parties in the war...": Russian politicians are doing the same.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 14:50
As for Reagan, he was also rather dull and did poorly in school and college.

An indicator of one's intelligence is the quality of their humor.

Reagan told better jokes than the former/future moron-in-chief, who cannot rise above 10-year-old name-calling combined with incoherent rants and mockery of one's appearance.

https://youtu.be/mN3z3eSVG7A
(note that some of his old soviet jokes are still valid today)

That's also the difference between the old GoP and today's maga cult.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 14, 2024, 15:36
… documentary about tens of thousands Palestinians killed in Gaza…?! Please send me a link…

Both are certainly terrible.
 
But if you're suggesting that the events in Ukraine can in any way be compared to the Gaza Strip, then you've just won the competition for unqualified comments against Stoker.

… you DO understand what my point was…

Not really.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 14, 2024, 15:44
… documentary about tens of thousands Palestinians killed in Gaza…?! Please send me a link…

Both are certainly terrible.
 
But if you're suggesting that the events in Ukraine can in any way be compared to the Gaza Strip, then you've just won the competition for unqualified comments against Stoker.

… you DO understand what my point was…

Not really.
… and thanks for unprovoked qualification…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 14, 2024, 16:05
… documentary about tens of thousands Palestinians killed in Gaza…?! Please send me a link…

Both are certainly terrible.
 
But if you're suggesting that the events in Ukraine can in any way be compared to the Gaza Strip, then you've just won the competition for unqualified comments against Stoker.

… you DO understand what my point was…

Not really.
… and thanks for unprovoked qualification…

? ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 14, 2024, 16:22
An indicator of one's intelligence is the quality of their humor.
Reagan told better jokes than the former/future moron-in-chief, who cannot rise above 10-year-old name-calling combined with incoherent rants and mockery of one's appearance.
Well then, the President of Ukraine is actually a genius! He is a professional comedian.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 14, 2024, 17:02
An indicator of one's intelligence is the quality of their humor.
Reagan told better jokes than the former/future moron-in-chief, who cannot rise above 10-year-old name-calling combined with incoherent rants and mockery of one's appearance.
Well then, the President of Ukraine is actually a genius! He is a professional comedian.  ;D ;D ;D
Not necessarily a genius, but proving my point. He is more intelligent than Trump—the moron whose best "jokes" are name-calling like a 10-year-old and mocking people's appearances, while being totally incapable of self-deprecation.

And your president is far braver and more courageous than that snowflake who is constantly whining and ranting about being persecuted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 15, 2024, 01:26
… whatever they( Orcs, UA, new good Orcs…) are doing on border with Russia, this will bring more and more deaths… someone is looking for extreme escalation during following days… there will be more civilian casulties, like those children last night… PR war campaigns are activated…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 03:08
… whatever they( Orcs, UA, new good Orcs…) are doing on border with Russia, this will bring more and more deaths… someone is looking for extreme escalation during following days… there will be more civilian casulties, like those children last night… PR war campaigns are activated…
There is no need to make claims against Ukraine. Present your claims to the Russian orcs, the Russian empire and putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 03:35
An indicator of one's intelligence is the quality of their humor.
Reagan told better jokes than the former/future moron-in-chief, who cannot rise above 10-year-old name-calling combined with incoherent rants and mockery of one's appearance.
Well then, the President of Ukraine is actually a genius! He is a professional comedian.  ;D ;D ;D
Not necessarily a genius, but proving my point. He is more intelligent than Trump—the moron whose best "jokes" are name-calling like a 10-year-old and mocking people's appearances, while being totally incapable of self-deprecation.

And your president is far braver and more courageous than that snowflake who is constantly whining and ranting about being persecuted.
Let's appoint Zelensky as President of the United States.  ;D

I have already written a lot about my point of view; it is not Trump who should be judged, but Biden. I hope Trump does this when he wins the election.
You are annoyed by Trump as a person, you don’t like him, but compared to Biden, under him US policy was much better for Ukraine. I am not a US citizen, I am not a woman who needs abortions, so I don’t care who the Republican president will be, as long as the president is a Republican.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 15, 2024, 04:01
… Zelenskyi should be president of the world… when you conquer Orcistan and maybe China, that must be next to do…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 07:33
Ukrainian film 20 Days in Mariupol has won an Oscar

Not sure if it is available outside the US, but US users can watch it free on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/gvAyykRvPBo. (https://youtu.be/gvAyykRvPBo.)

A must watch...
Shown here too

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/20-days-in-mariupol/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/20-days-in-mariupol/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 08:57
Explaining complex things in simple words: Russian elections in occupied areas.

The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine.

RUSSIAN “ELECTIONS” IN THE TEMPORARILY OCCUPIED TERRITORIES

On March 17, the Putin regime holds so-called “elections,” including in the occupied territories of Ukraine. Early “voting” has already begun.

▪ Russian elections in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine are illegal and invalid.

▪ Moscow does not care about the attitude of Ukrainian citizens under occupation towards Putin. The percentage of votes “in favour” will be set at the level decided in the Kremlin.

▪ The so-called “elections” are another tool for conquering invaded territories. Ukrainian citizens are forced to participate in this farce by violence.

▪ Ukrainians in the temporarily occupied territories actively and passively resist the invaders, being exposed to repression and punitive actions of the enemy special services.

▪ After the so-called “elections,” propaganda will cynically lie about the “high voter turnout” and, of course, “support” for Putin in the temporarily occupied territories. This is another reason why the “re-election” of the dictator cannot be recognized.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3839608-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-russian-elections-in-occupied-areas-putins-peace-initiatives-role-of-volunteer-fighters.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3839608-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-russian-elections-in-occupied-areas-putins-peace-initiatives-role-of-volunteer-fighters.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 10:17
 ;D ;D ;D

Elimination of armored personnel carriers and Russian infantry. Avdiivka, Ukraine.

https://t.me/ssternenko/26315 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26315)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: 50% on March 15, 2024, 10:31
;D ;D ;D

Elimination of armored personnel carriers and Russian infantry. Avdiivka, Ukraine.

https://t.me/ssternenko/26315 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26315)
You think it's funny than people are dying, that's totally sick!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 10:56
You think it's funny than people are dying
8) 8) 8)

Russian orcs are not people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on March 15, 2024, 11:07
You think it's funny than people are dying
8) 8) 8)

Russian orcs are not people.

The more fanatical among the Russians will probably say the same thing about Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 15, 2024, 11:19
;D ;D ;D

Elimination of armored personnel carriers and Russian infantry. Avdiivka, Ukraine.

https://t.me/ssternenko/26315 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26315)
You think it's funny than people are dying, that's totally sick!

I agree 100%!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 15, 2024, 11:48
… that is it… I really don’t understand wahat iacabout Bram Stoker… I do understand he is angry, but those are people… at least don’t enjoy in that here, keep it inside you if you like it…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 12:01
You think it's funny than people are dying
8) 8) 8)
Russian orcs are not people.
The more fanatical among the Russians will probably say the same thing about Ukrainians.
At least 80-90% of Russians support the killing of civilians and the occupation of the territories of other countries.
There are elections in russia now, the exact percentage will be known next week.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 12:06
;D ;D ;D
Elimination of armored personnel carriers and Russian infantry. Avdiivka, Ukraine.
https://t.me/ssternenko/26315 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26315)
You think it's funny than people are dying, that's totally sick!
I agree 100%!
Therefore, Russian orcs will occupy Germany in 3-5 days. They are preparing for this. When you see a human instead of an orc, this is the result of Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 12:49
Hunting for Russian orcs and eliminating them.   8) 8) 8)
Good report by the Armed Forces of Ukraine, good music.

https://t.me/ssternenko/26289

https://t.me/ssternenko/26277


p.s. Russian friends don't have to watch.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 15, 2024, 13:36
… you really enjoy in that…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 15, 2024, 13:51
… you really enjoy in that…?!

No, he doesn't. He very probably has a narcissistic obsessive-compulsive disorder.

In this respect, it makes no sense to continue discussing or even criticizing here, as the last 100+ pages impressively show.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 15, 2024, 16:19
… you really enjoy in that…?!
These are open sources of information. There is a war going on, everyone who is against the Russians likes the successes of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. For me there is no difference between a Russian orc, a Russian tank, a Russian plane and other Russian military objects. If you follow the links I provided (in the telegram system), you will see a lot of approving likes and approving comments there.
How can you not rejoice at the successes of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?

RalfLiebhold, doctor, I already told you, go back to your patients in your clinic.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 15, 2024, 18:17
;D ;D ;D
Elimination of armored personnel carriers and Russian infantry. Avdiivka, Ukraine.
https://t.me/ssternenko/26315 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26315)
You think it's funny than people are dying, that's totally sick!
I agree 100%!
Therefore, Russian orcs will occupy Germany in 3-5 days. They are preparing for this. When you see a human instead of an orc, this is the result of Russian propaganda.

It is not Russian propaganda that you are sick in the head. Go and defend your country and stop telling others what they should do. Finally do something yourself!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 15, 2024, 18:20
… you really enjoy in that…?!

Do you enjoy what the Russians are doing in Ukraine? I haven't read a single word from you that criticizes Russia's actions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 15, 2024, 23:58
… you really enjoy in that…?!
These are open sources of information. There is a war going on, everyone who is against the Russians likes the successes of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. For me there is no difference between a Russian orc, a Russian tank, a Russian plane and other Russian military objects. If you follow the links I provided (in the telegram system), you will see a lot of approving likes and approving comments there.
How can you not rejoice at the successes of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?

RalfLiebhold, doctor, I already told you, go back to your patients in your clinic.  ;D

… I have once followed link you ptovide and was shocked… after that, never did again… it is at least sad if people share their joy about killing…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 16, 2024, 00:06
… you really enjoy in that…?!

Do you enjoy what the Russians are doing in Ukraine? I haven't read a single word from you that criticizes Russia's actions.

… please, do not ask me to enjoy in killing  of people with you two…  this is not a place for present killed people… dehumanization leads to na….m and mental pathology…  I have once added  a link to massacres in Eastern Galicia and with a disclaimer of horrible historical photos… if someone add smileys with links of killing people, in my opinion that is sick… if you support Bram Stoker to post videos of people being hit in head with drones, than I don’t know what to say…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 03:47
russia is burning! ;D ;D ;D

Ukrainian drones strike 2 large oil refineries in the Samara region, 1000 km away from the border with Ukraine.

Huge fires are raging at the Syzran oil refinery & the Novokuibyshevsk oil refinery.

Video:
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1768877511562162574 (https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1768877511562162574)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 03:58
Stoker to post videos of people being hit in head with drones
You have a wild imagination; my links usually don’t contain such videos.
 ;D ;D ;D

Children, women and the mentally ill are not recommended to know anything about the war. I recommend that you do not read this topic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 04:17
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MARCH 15, 2024.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-15-2024 (https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-15-2024)

A large analytical article about the plans of Russian Na.zis in Ukraine and EU countries. I recommend everyone to study it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 16, 2024, 04:26
Repost
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 16, 2024, 04:27
Stoker to post videos of people being hit in head with drones
You have a wild imagination; my links usually don’t contain such videos.
 ;D ;D ;D

Children, women and the mentally ill are not recommended to know anything about the war. I recommend that you do not read this topic.
… oh yes, you did it… but there is someone who have flagged it… that video was again with smileys… you are helpping me to know what are you being able to do in denial… if you are sincerly regretting doing it, then it is ok and I forgive you…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 16, 2024, 08:17
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MARCH 15, 2024.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-15-2024 (https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-15-2024)

A large analytical article about the plans of Russian Na.zis in Ukraine and EU countries. I recommend everyone to study it

Yes, I also recommend that you study it. After you finish studying it, tell your maga friends to release the aid they are still blocking in the US Congress.

Europe alone cannot, however, make up for the lack of US aid as the US has a much stronger and larger military capacity, as ISW has previously assessed.[11] The Washington Post reported on March 15 that a senior US official stated that there is no “bright” future for Ukraine if the US does not pass the supplemental aid package for Ukraine.
A senior advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky reportedly told the Washington Post that Russian forces are highly likely to make significant territorial gains in Summer 2024 if the US does not provide aid to Ukraine.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 08:23
Three things you can look at forever:
1. Water.
2. Fire.
3. Elimination of Russian orcs.  ;D

Avdiivka, Ukraine. Extended version of the elimination of Russian orcs.  8) 8) 8)

https://t.me/ssternenko/26338 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26338)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 08:25
Training of Ukrainian sergeants for the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
The video has subtitles, you can set the translation into any language.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA3zkxOKW3E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA3zkxOKW3E)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 08:30
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MARCH 15, 2024.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-15-2024 (https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-15-2024)

A large analytical article about the plans of Russian Na.zis in Ukraine and EU countries. I recommend everyone to study it
Yes, I also recommend that you study it. After you finish studying it, tell you rmaga friends to release the aid they are still blocking in the US Congress.

Europe alone cannot, however, make up for the lack of US aid as the US has a much stronger and larger military capacity, as ISW has previously assessed.[11] The Washington Post reported on March 15 that a senior US official stated that there is no “bright” future for Ukraine if the US does not pass the supplemental aid package for Ukraine.

But you don’t need to use everything written in the article to politically support Biden.
This article is for the general reader. Other experts will consider some of the statements very controversial and incorrect. You just quoted a controversial statement.
But, I think the purpose of this article is rhetoric, of course Ukraine needs help from many countries and the more help, the better.
In the aid that the Republicans are blocking, the total amount of weapons is $5-6 billion, this is for reference.
As for the EU and the Europarasites, they do what Biden and the Democrats tell them to do. And they tell them not to help Ukraine much.
I think when Trump becomes president, EU assistance will only increase. And the closer to the elections, the more clear it is that Trump will be president, the more help Ukraine will receive.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 16, 2024, 08:37
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MARCH 15, 2024.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-15-2024 (https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-15-2024)

A large analytical article about the plans of Russian Na.zis in Ukraine and EU countries. I recommend everyone to study it
Yes, I also recommend that you study it. After you finish studying it, tell you rmaga friends to release the aid they are still blocking in the US Congress.

Europe alone cannot, however, make up for the lack of US aid as the US has a much stronger and larger military capacity, as ISW has previously assessed.[11] The Washington Post reported on March 15 that a senior US official stated that there is no “bright” future for Ukraine if the US does not pass the supplemental aid package for Ukraine.

But you don’t need to use everything written in the article to politically support Biden.
This article is for the general reader. Other experts will consider some of the statements very controversial and incorrect. You just quoted a controversial statement.
But, I think the purpose of this article is rhetoric, of course Ukraine needs help from many countries and the more help, the better.
In the aid that the Republicans are blocking, the total amount of weapons is $5-6 billion, this is for reference.
As for the EU and the Europarasites, they do what Biden and the Democrats tell them to do. And they tell them not to help Ukraine much.
I think when Trump becomes president, EU assistance will only increase. And the closer to the elections, the more clear it is that Trump will be president, the more help Ukraine will receive.  ;D ;D ;D
Once you finish studying it, you should realize how much of an involuntary russian asset you have become when making stupid claims like this:


So yes, US resources should be directed against China. EU resources should be directed against the Russians.

FYI, the Ukraine aid still blocked by your maga friends is 10 times larger than what you think it is... 🙄. Again you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Prime Minister of Ukraine, Denys Shmyhal, emphasized that the bulk of the amount ($50 billion) is intended for defense support.
"There will be even more weapons, equipment and ammunition for our defenders. The rest of the aid will be directed to direct budget support and other programs that will help Ukraine remain economically sustainable. We are grateful to the Senate for this important decision and look forward to supporting this aid in the House of Representatives," added Shmyhal.


Unfortunately, he forgot that trump and his anti-Ukraine maga supporters are controlling the House of Representatives.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 16, 2024, 09:11
Three things you can look at forever:
1. Water.
2. Fire.
3. Elimination of Russian orcs.  ;D

Avdiivka, Ukraine. Extended version of the elimination of Russian orcs.  8) 8) 8)

https://t.me/ssternenko/26338 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26338)

…some people say, if you look to much to fire you will p..s Your pants over night… :)
p.s. Are you the only one or all people where you live enjoy in those videos…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 09:19
Zero Talent, I will not comment or criticize the populist statements of individual politicians here. In general, the rhetoric of the article is normal, this article is mainly about military maps and plans of the Russians. I think it will be useful for readers of this forum to read.
Also, the authors of the article refer to texts from the media, so this article is not an axiom, but simply a review of the media.
I have already written my opinion and the opinion of Ukrainian military experts on the questions you asked.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 09:23
Stoker to post videos of people being hit in head with drones, than I don’t know what to say…
In fact, drones fly into the ass of Russian orcs. Here's video evidence
https://t.me/pidrozdilshadowoficial/398

 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 16, 2024, 09:24
The elimination of one Russian and the epic pursuit of another.  8)

https://t.me/ssternenko/26346 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26346)

He also shoots back!  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 16, 2024, 10:04
… if that makes you happy, then you gave me a answer to my question…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 17, 2024, 09:22
Ukraine. The Ukrainian Armed Forces are destroying Russian infantry fighting vehicles using drones.

https://t.me/ssternenko/26395 (https://t.me/ssternenko/26395)

 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 17, 2024, 10:25
… it’s obvious, you do enjoy…

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 17, 2024, 10:26
Polish Farmers Block Key Road Into Germany

https://www.voanews.com/amp/polish-farmers-block-key-road-into-germany-/7501764.html (https://www.voanews.com/amp/polish-farmers-block-key-road-into-germany-/7501764.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 17, 2024, 11:31
… it’s obvious, you do enjoy…
+100
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 17, 2024, 11:34
Polish Farmers Block Key Road Into Germany

https://www.voanews.com/amp/polish-farmers-block-key-road-into-germany-/7501764.html (https://www.voanews.com/amp/polish-farmers-block-key-road-into-germany-/7501764.html)

This is the work of the KGB. There are many Russian provocateurs and KGB agents there. These freaks do not protest against Russian and Belarusian agricultural products that enter the Polish market. But these freaks decided to bark at Ukraine, whose products only go in transit through Poland. Moreover, these freaks are blocking military aid. I think that one brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was enough to hold the entire route to Germany. The Polish government decided to help the Russians through inaction.
Europarasites and Euro-nits!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 17, 2024, 11:38
Judging by media reports, there is a new Napoleon in France!  ;D

Either Macron really decided to help Ukraine, or he wants to share Africa with the Russians, from which the Russian orcs are successfully ousting the French army.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 17, 2024, 15:07
After processing 34.26% of protocols, the Russian Central Election Commission announced that putin won 87.5% votes.

As I said, 90% of Russians are Na.zis, orcs and genetic slaves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 17, 2024, 16:32
After processing 34.26% of protocols, the Russian Central Election Commission announced that putin won 87.5% votes.

As I said, 90% of Russians are Na.zis, orcs and genetic slaves.

Firstly, I have noticed an improvement. It used to be 100%.

Secondly, are you drawing conclusions from the "election"? What do you expect from the system? Where no opposition is allowed? And where anyone who doesn't vote for Putin runs the risk of going to jail?

It must have been like that back then under the N...s in Germany. The system was so perfected that anyone who wanted to rebel against it had to fear for their own life and that of their family. I am still grateful today that the system failed back then because of megalomania. I can't even begin to imagine what it would look like here in Germany today if the N...s hadn't lost. A nightmare!

But something else - for you, who are constantly talking about the European parasites. You are a home country parasite. You sit nice and warm at your computer and let others fight for you and your homeland. After years on the front line, your fellow human beings are very tired and need to be replaced. In this context, have you ever thought about the fact that you are a parasite in your own country and are letting down your country's defenders? And since you don't give anything, a much worse parasite than those you constantly attack here?


It is extremely convenient to tell others what they are doing wrong.
Maybe you could finally get out of your arrogant comfort zone and do something yourself. Then perhaps you would finally be halfway credible. And you would do Ukraine less harm than you are currently doing with your comments.

If you really are a Russian troll, that's something else, of course.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 18, 2024, 00:36
… in the begining, he probably got an idea what he is… by time, he was totally lost in his own Orc-EU-KGB-conspiracy-theory universe… now he floats inside with tin foil hat and believes what he wants…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 03:42
German friends of Russians support and justify the choice of genetic slaves, Na.zis and orcs in russia. We see this from the posts of the Germans in this forum. This means that Germany recognizes the elections in russia and the elections of Hitler of the 21st century putin. Of course, the Germans need legitimate Nazism in russia, because then how will the Germans conduct trade and finance the Russians?

Trump! Squash the parasites!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 07:37
Berlin, Germany. Polling station for Russians to vote for putin. The Germans are helping putin get as many votes as possible and increase voter turnout. The Germans are also helping to make putin’s elections legitimate.
Support for the Na.zis = Nazism.

(https://static.dw.com/image/68597605_1004.webp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 18, 2024, 08:44
… are that Orcs, too…?! Or someone can be deORCed when leaves Russia…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 08:52
… are that Orcs, too…?! Or someone can be deORCed when leaves Russia…?!
Most Russians (90%) are genetic slaves, orcs and Na.zis. Wherever these Russians live.

Experiments on deORCed Russians have not yet been conducted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 18, 2024, 09:19
… to me, they look like ordinary people… I’m pretty sure that results from that polling station will not be in Putins favor… so definetely deOrcs do exist, or theyhave changed their shape just to vote… I think we should find example of real Orcs in Russia…:)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 18, 2024, 09:37
Berlin, Germany. Polling station for Russians to vote for putin. The Germans are helping putin get as many votes as possible and increase voter turnout. The Germans are also helping to make putin’s elections legitimate.
Support for the Na.zis = Nazism.

(https://static.dw.com/image/68597605_1004.webp)

Fake news again from you. European politics is obviously too complex for a simple mind.

Yulia Navalnaya organized these queues, or rather called for them, in front of polling stations all over Europe to vote not for Putin but for the opposition and to set an example. These pictures can be seen in all European countries, so they have nothing to do with Germany in particular.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 10:03
Yulia Navalnaya organized these queues, or rather called for them, in front of polling stations all over Europe to vote not for Putin but for the opposition and to set an example. These pictures can be seen in all European countries, so they have nothing to do with Germany in particular.
:'( :'( :'(
1. Photo of Berlin? Photo of Berlin.
2. Do you know who all those genetic slaves voted for?
3. "Yulia Navalnaya"? -  :o :o :'( :'( :'( :'( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 10:08
… to me, they look like ordinary people… I’m pretty sure that results from that polling station will not be in Putins favor… so definetely deOrcs do exist, or theyhave changed their shape just to vote… I think we should find example of real Orcs in Russia…:)
1. Criminals who are put on the electric chair also look like ordinary people.  ;D ;D ;D
2. I would like to see the results of the vote in Berlin.  ;D
But in any case, this policy of Germany and the EU is aimed at legitimizing the Russian election of the main Nazi of the 21st century.
Europarasites!!!!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 18, 2024, 11:41
… I beleive you, KGB-EU-Orc-parasites are everywhere… and we shouldn’t relax at all, even if they look like ordinary people…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 18, 2024, 11:55
Yulia Navalnaya organized these queues, or rather called for them, in front of polling stations all over Europe to vote not for Putin but for the opposition and to set an example. These pictures can be seen in all European countries, so they have nothing to do with Germany in particular.
:'( :'( :'(
1. Photo of Berlin? Photo of Berlin.
2. Do you know who all those genetic slaves voted for?
3. "Yulia Navalnaya"? -  :o :o :'( :'( :'( :'( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


It's quite remarkable when you don't understand your own content.

Of course the photo is from Berlin.
However, your conclusions about Germany not only lack facts - they are simply brazen lies. Especially since the German government does not recognize the election result.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 12:58
Yulia Navalnaya organized these queues, or rather called for them, in front of polling stations all over Europe to vote not for Putin but for the opposition and to set an example. These pictures can be seen in all European countries, so they have nothing to do with Germany in particular.
:'( :'( :'(
1. Photo of Berlin? Photo of Berlin.
2. Do you know who all those genetic slaves voted for?
3. "Yulia Navalnaya"? -  :o :o :'( :'( :'( :'( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
It's quite remarkable when you don't understand your own content.
Of course the photo is from Berlin.
However, your conclusions about Germany not only lack facts - they are simply brazen lies. Especially since the German government does not recognize the election result.
I have not yet seen photos of Russians at polling stations in other EU countries. So far, all media outlets are showing photos from Germany. That’s why I wrote to you that there is no need to refer to other EU countries and pan-European politics.
You Germans helped the Russians ensure maximum turnout of Russian voters, this is already helping putin in holding elections. Also, information that the elections took place in Germany will be shown in all countries of the world, which also strengthens the legitimacy of putin’s elections.
The fact that Germany does not recognize these elections will not prevent the Germans from having diplomatic relations with russia, negotiating with russia and trading with russia both directly and through third countries.
What does it mean in this case not to recognize the elections? This is a lie and manipulation on the part of Scholz (follower of KGB agent Merkel).

If Scholz, a friend of the Russians, had said that the elections in russia are illegitimate and that Germany is breaking off diplomatic relations with russia and ending all trade relations, this would be a logical and correct move. But Scholz did not say this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 18, 2024, 13:29

I have not yet seen photos of Russians at polling stations in other EU countries.

Then you'd better open your eyes before you go on spreading lies.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 14:10

I have not yet seen photos of Russians at polling stations in other EU countries.

Then you'd better open your eyes before you go on spreading lies.
Yep, great EU! They helped putin hold elections in both russia and the EU.
RalfLiebhold, I don’t write lies, I write only the truth in this topic, mark my words.  >:(

In the photo we see crowds of Russian genetic slaves who want to vote for putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 14:24
Some people think that putin does not have the support of Russians. Or that the support is much less than shown. It's simple math. Let's say that even 30% of Russians are against Putin (although he becomes president even with 51% support). What is 30% of the Russian population? This is 50 million people. Let's take away children, women, disabled people, and we get at least 20 million people. These 20 million could have staged such acts of disobedience that not a single fascist regime could have survived. But, as we see, there are no protests in russia. But they don’t exist for a very simple reason: all Russians are slaves and orcs and Na.zis. And even if there are 10% against putin, this does not mean that they are against the war and occupation of Ukraine. Perhaps in russia there are 2-3 percent of those who are against the empire and fascism, but this is really a very small number of people who really cannot do anything. Thus, 90% of Russians are slaves, orcs and Na.zis.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 18, 2024, 14:46

RalfLiebhold, I don’t write lies, I write only the truth in this topic, mark my words.  >:(

In the photo we see crowds of Russian genetic slaves who want to vote for putin.

Oops, where are your smileys?

You've been caught lying here for the umpteenth time. No, I don´t mark your words.
You ignore facts.
You can't do clean and accurate research.
You are constricted and blocked in your thinking.

And once again you interpret the images in such a way that they fit into your messed up world view.

It´s wrong and again another Lie.


https://www.politico.eu/article/hundreds-people-gathered-russia-embassy-brussels-vote-against-vladimir-putin/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/hundreds-people-gathered-russia-embassy-brussels-vote-against-vladimir-putin/)

Some 400 to 500 people queued at the Russian embassy in Brussels on Sunday to vote in Russia’s presidential election, most of them participating in the “Noon Against Putin” protest action called by opposition groups.

While President Vladimir Putin is certain to win the vote, Russians in the capital of the EU were doing their part to show their distaste for the leader who has spent years cracking down on all forms of dissent against his rule.

“I came here to vote. To vote against Putin,” said Olga, who brought along her family. “The action is a pure demonstration of disagreement with what is happening in our country,” she said.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 14:55
Some 400 to 500 people queued at the Russian embassy in Brussels on Sunday to vote in Russia’s presidential election, most of them participating in the “Noon Against Putin” protest action called by opposition groups.
;D ;D ;D
400 people, that's a lot  ;D. I have already written that in the EU there are 10% of Russians who are against putin.
These numbers mean nothing. You need to look at the percentage of votes that putin received in the EU. Then you can draw some conclusions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 15:14
A Suspicious Pattern Alarming the Ukrainian Military

A Ukrainian military source believes that Russia’s long-range strikes are aimed using satellite imagery provided by U.S. companies.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/03/american-satellites-russia-ukraine-war/677775/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2024/03/american-satellites-russia-ukraine-war/677775/)

 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 18, 2024, 15:17

I have already written that in the EU there are 10% of Russians who are against putin.



And yet another unproven lie from you.

In reality, it looks like this:

The results of the post-election survey conducted by the independent Russian project "Vote Abroad" are available late this evening. According to the results, 31% of the 2,533 voters surveyed in Bonn voted for Putin and a further 28% for Davankov. The candidate of the Communist Party, Nikolai Kharitonov, received only one percent. Nobody voted for the fourth candidate, the chairman of the "Liberal Democratic Party of Russia" Leonid Sluzki. A quarter of respondents did not want to provide any information to "Vote Abroad". And 15 percent damaged their ballot paper - in protest. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 18, 2024, 15:39
Berlin, Germany. Polling station for Russians to vote for putin. The Germans are helping putin get as many votes as possible and increase voter turnout. The Germans are also helping to make putin’s elections legitimate.
Support for the Na.zis = Nazism.

(https://static.dw.com/image/68597605_1004.webp)

Again, you do not know what you are talking about.
Based on independent exit polls, which are much more reliable than the official count, only 10% of the Russian residents in Berlin voted for putin, and 31% in Bonn:

https://voteabroad.info/

Let's also be aware that many Russians who have voted against putin may still be reluctant to say so out loud to pollsters on the street.

Moreover, Yulia Navalnaya called for people to dare to vote against putin, and she personally voted against him in Berlin, where she was greeted by those >90% of Russian voters:
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/1769457355547176998

Also, please note that except for Athens, putin received less than 50% of the vote everywhere else where voting took place outside russian-controlled territories.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 18, 2024, 15:54
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…

Today, in my view, there was clear proof of what Putin thinks of "talking":

Putin said to his people today after his "election": "...together hand in hand we will move forward - not with words, but with deeds."

Today, on the day when his "election opponent" praises Putin and makes it clear that Crimea belongs to Russia.

In your opinion, what and how should be "talked" about under these conditions?

There's nothing to talk about! Putin doesn't want to talk. He wants power! He wants victory! He wants to go down in the history books!
And there - in the history books - he will make his mark. But not in the way he imagines.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 18, 2024, 16:07
… to me, they look like ordinary people… I’m pretty sure that results from that polling station will not be in Putins favor… so definetely deOrcs do exist, or theyhave changed their shape just to vote… I think we should find example of real Orcs in Russia…:)
1. Criminals who are put on the electric chair also look like ordinary people.  ;D ;D ;D
2. I would like to see the results of the vote in Berlin.  ;D
But in any case, this policy of Germany and the EU is aimed at legitimizing the Russian election of the main Nazi of the 21st century.
Europarasites!!!!

There is only one parasite in this forum. The one who lets his people and his fellow human beings down and only writes stupid stuff - you!"
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 16:12
The results of the post-election survey conducted by the independent Russian project "Vote Abroad" are available late this evening. According to the results, 31% of the 2,533 voters surveyed in Bonn voted for Putin and a further 28% for Davankov. The candidate of the Communist Party, Nikolai Kharitonov, received only one percent. Nobody voted for the fourth candidate, the chairman of the "Liberal Democratic Party of Russia" Leonid Sluzki. A quarter of respondents did not want to provide any information to "Vote Abroad". And 15 percent damaged their ballot paper - in protest. 
30%+25% = 55% for putin.

There is no trust in these Russian polls.
All Russians are supporters of the empire and rashists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 18, 2024, 16:23
 :o
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 18, 2024, 16:25
30%+25% = 55% for putin.

There is no trust in these Russian polls.
All Russians are supporters of the empire and rashists.

But 55% is not 90%. (whereby the 55% is once again the product of your sick imagination)

You're not only a bad liar, you're also a methematic dunce.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 16:47
Also, please note that except for Athens, putin received less than 50% of the vote everywhere else where voting took place outside russian-controlled territories.
Did you read it in a tabloid newspaper?  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 16:50
You're not only a bad liar, you're also a methematic dunce.
1. I studied mathematics professionally.
2. There is no mathematics here, only psychology.
3. All Russian polls can be shoved up these Russians' ass.
4. Not a single Ukrainian will even sit next to your beloved Navalna. This is what Zelensky’s wife demonstrated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 16:52
Soon the Russians will begin to occupy the EU countries, and the Europarasites will see how quickly the Russians who live in the EU will begin to help putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 18, 2024, 16:54
Nice video for the evening. Elimination of Russian orcs in Ukraine.  8) 8) 8)

Avdiivka, Ukraine.

https://t.me/ssternenko/26446

https://t.me/ssternenko/26427
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 18, 2024, 17:18
The results of the post-election survey conducted by the independent Russian project "Vote Abroad" are available late this evening. According to the results, 31% of the 2,533 voters surveyed in Bonn voted for Putin and a further 28% for Davankov. The candidate of the Communist Party, Nikolai Kharitonov, received only one percent. Nobody voted for the fourth candidate, the chairman of the "Liberal Democratic Party of Russia" Leonid Sluzki. A quarter of respondents did not want to provide any information to "Vote Abroad". And 15 percent damaged their ballot paper - in protest. 
30%+25% = 55% for putin.

There is no trust in these Russian polls.
All Russians are supporters of the empire and rashists.
What?

Since the number of surveyed voters in Berlin and Bonn is roughly the same, the weighted average for Germany is the same as the average of both polling locations (10% and 31%), so roughly 20% of the Russians living there.

If anything, that number is even lower than 20%, as many Russians may still be afraid to disclose their anti-putin vote to strangers on the street, even if they live in Germany.

Check the site voteabroad.info , and you will see that the exit polls are made by independent pollsters.
The database shows not only the exit poll numbers but also the official count, which is much higher than the exit polls (just normal vote counting in a dictatorship).
The official vote numbers for putin are 44% in Berlin and 65% in Bonn. So even based on official numbers, putin only got ~54% of the Russian residents in Germany, far from the overall average.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 18, 2024, 17:33
You're not only a bad liar, you're also a methematic dunce.

1. I studied mathematics professionally.


 ::) :o ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 19, 2024, 03:58
… and it is impossible to conquer Russia, how you have imagined… except if you don’t wont tear Earth on half… in matter of seconds…your nation will suffer until this war ends… more and more people in the world are aware that you need to talk and stop the war asap…

Today, in my view, there was clear proof of what Putin thinks of "talking":

Putin said to his people today after his "election": "...together hand in hand we will move forward - not with words, but with deeds."

Today, on the day when his "election opponent" praises Putin and makes it clear that Crimea belongs to Russia.

In your opinion, what and how should be "talked" about under these conditions?

There's nothing to talk about! Putin doesn't want to talk. He wants power! He wants victory! He wants to go down in the history books!
And there - in the history books - he will make his mark. But not in the way he imagines.
… you are right… there is no reason to stop killing and depopulation of Ukraine… just go further, until there are any proof of life… and we will continue to send weapons and  good wishes…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 19, 2024, 03:59
France joins Poland’s push to curb Ukrainian imports

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-imports-europe-france-poland-agriculture/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-imports-europe-france-poland-agriculture/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 19, 2024, 04:15
So even based on official numbers, putin only got ~54% of the Russian residents in Germany, far from the overall average.
1. There is no opposition in russia (because Russian slaves do not need it) and there are no presidential candidates who are against the empire. All the candidates you showed in your table are against Ukraine and for killing Ukrainians.
2. Navalnaya works for putin and the Russian empire. That is why she called on her supporters to come to the polls and created a huge turnout in the EU.
3. Normal Russians would never come to elections that are held in a Na.zi country and among the candidates there are only Na.zis. If Russians were against putin and the Empire, turnout in elections in russia and the EU would be 0%. When no one comes to vote, the election is considered invalid.
4. The EU and Europarasites helped putin create a huge turnout in his EU elections, which amounts to legitimizing these elections. The EU should have banned Nazi elections from being held on EU territory. Therefore, the only hope is for Trump to crush all the Europarasites.
5. The EU, Russian supporters of putin came to organize riots and fights with those who are against the war in Ukraine. And this is the EU.  ;D
https://t.me/nevzorovtv/15219

Because of the criminal policies of the US Democrats, you and the Europarasites do not understand the main thing. If a Russian is against putin, this does not mean that this Russian is against the empire, against the war in Ukraine and against the occupation of Ukraine. Social researchers do not ask Russians questions that I have long published on this forum. Namely:
1. Whose Crimea? (the correct answer should be Crimea is Ukraine).
2. Which country are the Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions part of? (the correct answer is Ukraine, and the Russians are the occupiers).
3. Should the Russian Empire be liquidated? (the correct answer is that occupied peoples have the right to hold a referendum on independence).
4. Should everyone who participated in the war against Ukraine, Georgia, Ichkeria be punished? (correct answer, all Russian participants in the war should be subject to criminal prosecution).
5. Should russia withdraw its troops from Ukraine, Crimea, Donbass? (correct answer, russia should withdraw troops from Ukraine)
6. Should russia pay reparations to Ukraine and Ukrainians for those killed, for destroyed cities, destroyed ecology and other losses? (the correct answer is that russia must compensate for all losses caused to it).
Therefore, as soon as such a social study is conducted even among Russians living in the EU, you will not like the results very much.
Your boss, the stupid fuck and fuckface Biden, is pursuing a policy of supporting the rashist Navalnaya. And you, too, automatically began to support Navalnaya. You are not a friend of Ukraine.

Ukrainian media, Ukrainian politicians and volunteers tried to communicate with Russian “liberals” in the EU in 2022 and 2023. But all these “liberals” could not pass the test for rashism (they could not correctly answer the questions I wrote above). Therefore, Ukraine does not communicate with Russians in the EU, unlike the ass.hole Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 19, 2024, 07:17
You were proven wrong again, with data: despite your initial claim, putin is not supported by a large majority of russians living abroad, inucluding those living in Germany.

Instead of admitting your mistake, you wrote an novel to distract from your error.

No suprise! It happens all the time and it will continue to happen.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on March 19, 2024, 07:46
1. Whose Crimea? (the correct answer should be Crimea is Ukraine).

Have you ever asked your idol Trump that question?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 19, 2024, 08:04
… Bram Stoker always reads and answers on few questions… he knows that Turkish Tatars do know whose Crimea is…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 19, 2024, 08:56
You were proven wrong again, with data: despite your initial claim, putin is not supported by a large majority of russians living abroad, inucluding those living in Germany.
You provided links to the results of some surveys. Polls are not actual voting or actual vote counting.
I also wrote that there is no difference between putin and the other candidates who were in your table.
I wrote everything clearly. Clear to everyone except trolls from US Democrats.

This topic is read by 3,000 people per week. Therefore, my goal is not to argue with Biden trolls, but to convey important information to these readers.

Moreover, we do not see protests against the Na.zi elections in russia and their results. We don’t see protests either in russia or even in the EU. And you don’t need to tell me that Russians who live in the EU are against putin and against Nazism in russia and against the empire.
Everything you write is nonsense and propaganda from US Democrats who support the Russian empire and support putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 19, 2024, 09:34
… there are protests EU - in Poland and aftance, they are protesting about what…?! You are expecting that whole world should be in your favor because of…?! There are lot of  sacrifices in EU and thenrest of the world, but you are always asking for more and more.::
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 19, 2024, 09:36
You were proven wrong again, with data: despite your initial claim, putin is not supported by a large majority of russians living abroad, inucluding those living in Germany.
You provided links to the results of some surveys. Polls are not actual voting or actual vote counting.

You also have the official vote count from all these voting locations outside the putin-controlled territories.
Even those percentages, which are obviously tampered with by those who count the votes, show significantly less support for putin, far from the 87% he got overall.
The official inflated results directionally support the exit-poll findings, which, as I said, are very likely to be inflated as well since, fearing retaliation from the long KGB arm, many Russians living abroad may be afraid to admit their true vote in front of strangers.

And everybody knows that the other candidates are just putin's puppets. But you are missing the point. Those Russian voters in Germany and elsewhere would rather vote for a puppet than for putin. That's the message you don't get.

Bottom line, you were proven wrong with data, while you have nothing to support your deluded claims. But this old news already.

On the other hand, rest assured that your beloved trump is failing ALL the points you listed above. He will not lift a finger against his buddy putin, whom he admires, and only an involuntary russian asset would think differently.

And we already know the synonym for "involuntary Russian asset":

useful idiot
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 19, 2024, 10:03
......
many Russians living abroad may be afraid to admit their true vote in front of strangers.
....
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Russian genetic slaves. This is the correct way to write and speak. The slave does not know how to protest and always obeys the will of his master.

I don’t even see the point in commenting on the rest of your flooding and trolling.

And of course, Russians who live in the EU will not say what they are for putin, because they are afraid to say so, this could lead to their deportation. Therefore, when a Russian in the EU says that he is against putin, he is lying.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 19, 2024, 10:06
Ukraine prepares to join the EU club — but Brussels doesn’t want to talk about it
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-eu-farm-protests-ursula-von-der-leyen-voloymyr-zelenskyy/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-eu-farm-protests-ursula-von-der-leyen-voloymyr-zelenskyy/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 19, 2024, 10:07
Zero Talent useful idiot and troll
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 19, 2024, 10:08
......
many Russians living abroad may be afraid to admit their true vote in front of strangers.
....
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Russian genetic slaves. This is the correct way to write and speak. The slave does not know how to protest and always obeys the will of his master.

I don’t even see the point in commenting on the rest of your flooding and trolling.

And of course, Russians who live in the EU will not say what they are for putin, because they are afraid to say so, this could lead to their deportation. Therefore, when a Russian in the EU says that he is against putin, he is lying.  ;D ;D ;D
… those are shapeshifting Orcs or infiltrated KGB agents…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 19, 2024, 10:40
… those are shapeshifting Orcs or infiltrated KGB agents…
+100
Shapeshifting Orcs live in the EU and infiltrated KGB agents live in the EU also.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 19, 2024, 12:58
… and they are rebuilding wall in Berlin with their shapeshifting bodies… Orcwall… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 19, 2024, 13:06

And of course, Russians who live in the EU will not say what they are for putin, because they are afraid to say so, this could lead to their deportation.

Your lack of logic is glaring when you fail to understand that Germany is a democracy. Nobody is breaking any laws when they admire trump or his buddy putin. Nobody can be deported for that.

This is exactly why 10% of the voters in Berlin and 31% of voters in Bonn openly admitted to voting for putin, in front of strangers. They know they have nothing to fear.
The opposite is valid for those who dare to speak against putin and you know it. Not because of the German authorities, but because of the long arm of the KGB. They know it and you know that too.

But you fail to put facts together and formulate a coherent conclusion.

Your degree in math must have been obtained from a fake university, such as the scam: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University,
because it's impossible for someone with a real math degree to refuse so stubbornly to acknowledge facts and fail so miserably at logic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 19, 2024, 13:29

And of course, Russians who live in the EU will not say what they are for putin, because they are afraid to say so, this could lead to their deportation.

Your lack of logic is glaring when you fail to understand that Germany is a democracy. Nobody is breaking any laws when they admire trump or his buddy putin. Nobody can be deported for that.

This is exactly why 10% of the voters in Berlin and 31% of voters in Bonn openly admitted to voting for putin, in front of strangers. They know they have nothing to fear.
The opposite is valid for those who dare to speak against putin and you know it. Not because of the German authorities, but because of the long arm of the KGB. They know it and you know that too.

But you fail to put facts together and formulate a coherent conclusion.

Your degree involving math must have been obtained from a fake university, from a scam like: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University,
because it's impossible for someone with a real math degree to refuse to ackowledge facts and fail so miserably at logic.

stocker2014 doesn't know what democracy is. He doesn't understand the processes and framework conditions. Maybe you should explain it to him.

All of his statements clearly indicate that his mind is exclusively dominated by authoritarian and dictatorial ideas. In this respect, he is no different from Putin or Trump. He is therefore also unfamiliar with democratic processes.

He criticizes the autocratic dictatorship in Russia under Putin, but wants all other countries to put Putin in his place with exactly the same dictatorial and autocratic methods. Furthermore, he insists that in the USA, for example, the same autocratic means should be used against the current government majority (electric chair, prison, etc.).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 19, 2024, 13:47
The opposite is valid for those who dare to speak against putin and you know it. Not because of the German authorities, but because of the long arm of the KGB. They know it and you know that too.
You have now written 100% delirium. The KGB can still liquidate one person, but the KGB cannot liquidate tens and hundreds of thousands of people.
You deliberately start the topic into flood. You haven't written anything interesting on the forum today.
All these discussions of yours about Russians in the EU are just a figment of your fantasies and part of the propaganda from US Democrats.
I already regret that I quote your unsubstantiated flood.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 19, 2024, 13:53
Furthermore, he insists that in the USA, for example, the same autocratic means should be used against the current government majority (electric chair, prison, etc.).
1. I quote from all your flood only that which deserves at least some attention.
2. US Democrats have been fabricating many court cases against Trump for 3 years now. In essence, they are harassing Trump.
Politicians like Merkel and Biden must answer for their criminal policies. In democratic countries, it is normal for a criminal to be brought to justice and appears in court.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 19, 2024, 16:06
Furthermore, he insists that in the USA, for example, the same autocratic means should be used against the current government majority (electric chair, prison, etc.).
1. I quote from all your flood only that which deserves at least some attention.
2. US Democrats have been fabricating many court cases against Trump for 3 years now. In essence, they are harassing Trump.
Politicians like Merkel and Biden must answer for their criminal policies. In democratic countries, it is normal for a criminal to be brought to justice and appears in court.


Yes, Trump is a very fine person who always tells the truth and sticks to the facts. A role model for democracy. An idol.

It's really unbelievable that anyone doubts his reputation and his clean slate. Yes, all those who doubt Tump should be put in the electric chair to set an example for real democracy.

And all those who doubt Trump must be KGB agents.

You really are blinder than any mole in my garden!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 19, 2024, 16:21
Certainly off-topic for one person here, the others will understand why discussions here no longer make sense:

Some of the most common traits and signs of narcissistic personality disorder may include:

- An extremely inflated sense of self-importance, and self-absorption
- A sense of entitlement and grandiosity
- A strong need for excessive and constant attention and admiration
- Feelings of superiority even without any significant achievement
- A lack of empathy
- Considering others as inferior
- Feelings of victimization
- An aggressive reaction to being ‘ignored’ or ‘mistreated’
- A fragile self-esteem and low self-confidence
- An exaggeration of talents and accomplishments
- Feelings of jealousy
- A strong belief in being envied by others exceptionally charming and charismatic when it’s beneficial (3000 unvisible followers  ;))
- Undermining other achievements
- Reacting negatively and aggressively to criticism

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 19, 2024, 17:30
RalfLiebhold, are you a doctor or not a doctor?  ;D ;D
Any person who reads symptoms for various diseases on the Internet will find all these symptoms in themselves. This is a well-known fact.
I would recommend you to read and think more, and not argue for the sake of arguing.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 19, 2024, 18:07
The KGB can still liquidate one person,

Of course, this is how the KGB works.
Many of those Russian voters are certainly afraid that they will be that person if they are caught voting against putin, and many may claim the opposite.
That's just normal behaviour for everyone who knows how dictatorships work.

What is abnormal is the lack of logic coming from someone who claims to have studied mathematics. Obviously, that diploma on your wall is just a meaningless piece of paper.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 20, 2024, 04:02
Of course, this is how the KGB works.
Many of those Russian voters are certainly afraid that they will be that person if they are caught voting against putin, and many may claim the opposite.
That's just normal behaviour for everyone who knows how dictatorships work.
You stubbornly continue to write delirium and justify all Russians.

Yes, this is exactly how genetic slaves think and behave, they always find a reason why they should vote for putin or why they should not protest. You are also a slave because you think like a slave.
I will give an example of Ukraine and Ukrainians. In 2004, Ukrainians came out to protest against russia and against putin, it was the first Maidan. In 2014, Ukrainians also protested against putin; this was already the second Maidan. Ukrainians are not slaves, which they proved.
Well, following your cowardly logic, soon the EU will need to surrender to the Russian occupiers, because everyone who resists can be killed by the KGB.

I hate cowardice and US Democrats. Cowardice=democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 20, 2024, 07:13
Of course, this is how the KGB works.
Many of those Russian voters are certainly afraid that they will be that person if they are caught voting against putin, and many may claim the opposite.
That's just normal behaviour for everyone who knows how dictatorships work.
You stubbornly continue to write delirium and justify all Russians.
Your lack of logic and basic understanding of facts is striking for someone who claims to have studied mathematics.

Only you understood that I am justifying the behavior of ALL russians.
You have already admitted that not ALL Russians are bad, and those who have raided Belgorod and other places inside Russia are "good Russians."

The fact is that, among the Russian diaspora, a considerable number are anti-Putin. This has been demonstrated to you with facts.

But as I said, based on your poor logic and lack of comprehension of what you read, that diploma you bragged about is just a worthless piece of paper.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 20, 2024, 13:16
The International Criminal Court in The Hague has issued an arrest warrant for putin, but the EU is helping this criminal conduct elections in EU countries.

Trump! Crush the Europarasites!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 21, 2024, 04:44
 8) 8) 8)

(https://i.ibb.co/pnhm3w5/Default-President-Emanuel-Macron-is-Napolon-Bonaparte-2.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 21, 2024, 06:09
Ukraine. Elimination of Russian orcs and Russian tanks. 42 orcs eliminated.
Control the battle from the command center.

 8) 8) 8)

https://youtu.be/zgXuDOrYMew (https://youtu.be/zgXuDOrYMew)

There are subtitles with translation settings.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 21, 2024, 09:14
… don’t be naive… :)  … but, great cgi trailer…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 21, 2024, 11:09
… don’t be naive… :)  … but, great cgi trailer…
Are you talking about Macron?  ;D
He will soon put on a bicorne hat himself and start posing. Judging by his rhetoric.
But this is normal, the main thing is that his words are confirmed by his actions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 21, 2024, 13:14
… yes, about that action game show you posted from Youtube…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on March 21, 2024, 14:18
… don’t be naive… :)  … but, great cgi trailer…
Are you talking about Macron?  ;D
He will soon put on a bicorne hat himself and start posing. Judging by his rhetoric.
But this is normal, the main thing is that his words are confirmed by his actions.

Are they, though?

How come France comes in at place fourteen in the list of bilateral support (military and financial) then? Right between Finland and the Czech Republic.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ (https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 21, 2024, 15:58
… don’t be naive… :)  … but, great cgi trailer…
Are you talking about Macron?  ;D
He will soon put on a bicorne hat himself and start posing. Judging by his rhetoric.
But this is normal, the main thing is that his words are confirmed by his actions.
Are they, though?

How come France comes in at place fourteen in the list of bilateral support (military and financial) then? Right between Finland and the Czech Republic.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ (https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
There may be many factors here:
1. Yellow vests protests, which may be influenced by russia. Macron may have feared a repeat.
2. Macron spent a lot of time negotiating with Hitler putin.
3. France is located far from the borders of Ukraine and the French believed that other countries should help more.
4. The French are greedy.

But Macron’s desire to send troops to Ukraine is a very good desire. These troops are not necessarily needed on the front line; there are many other areas where they will replace the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which will allow the Ukrainian Armed Forces troops to be transferred to the front line. France is now in favor of NATO countries sending troops to Ukraine. This would be a very good help. Also, this could be not only ground forces, but also French aviation.
In any case, Macron looks belligerent.  ;D like on a picture  ;D ;D ;D

And the most important thing. Trump will soon become President of the United States. Therefore, Macron wants to show that, unlike other EU countries, France sent troops to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on March 21, 2024, 16:06
In any case, Macron looks belligerent.  ;D like on a picture  ;D ;D ;D

Yeah, sure, the look is what is important. Don't hold your breath for French soldiers or French aviation actually arriving in the Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 21, 2024, 16:28
… don’t be naive… :)  … but, great cgi trailer…
Are you talking about Macron?  ;D
He will soon put on a bicorne hat himself and start posing. Judging by his rhetoric.
But this is normal, the main thing is that his words are confirmed by his actions.
Are they, though?

How come France comes in at place fourteen in the list of bilateral support (military and financial) then? Right between Finland and the Czech Republic.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ (https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)

But Macron’s desire to send troops to Ukraine is a very good desire. These troops are not necessarily needed on the front line; there are many other areas where they will replace the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which will allow the Ukrainian Armed Forces troops to be transferred to the front line.


Wouldn't it be great if, first of all, those who demand support from outside would themselves support their own people?
You could do something yourself instead of making demands on others. Go out and support your people. Go help where help is needed and relieve your fellow human beings!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 21, 2024, 17:14
… don’t be naive… :)  … but, great cgi trailer…
Are you talking about Macron?  ;D
He will soon put on a bicorne hat himself and start posing. Judging by his rhetoric.
But this is normal, the main thing is that his words are confirmed by his actions.
Are they, though?

How come France comes in at place fourteen in the list of bilateral support (military and financial) then? Right between Finland and the Czech Republic.

https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ (https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)

But Macron’s desire to send troops to Ukraine is a very good desire. These troops are not necessarily needed on the front line; there are many other areas where they will replace the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which will allow the Ukrainian Armed Forces troops to be transferred to the front line.


Wouldn't it be great if, first of all, those who demand support from outside would themselves support their own people?
You could do something yourself instead of making demands on others. Go out and support your people. Go help where help is needed and relieve your fellow human beings!


Yes Wilm, exactly my thought too. This guy insults all supporters of Ukraine as cowards, parasites and teaches them how things should be done.

If he was really that concerned, he would be on the front line supporting Ukraine. If he wasn't physically able to do that, you can also control drones. Without question, there are possibilities.

The biggest coward and parasite is Stoker.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 22, 2024, 02:23
Im Krieg gegen Russland fehlen Soldaten: Union fordert Bürgergeld-Stopp für wehrpflichtige Ukrainer
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/buergergeld-stopp-fuer-wehrpflichtige-ukrainer-so-will-die-cducsu-soldaten-an-die-front-draengen-li.2197570 (https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/buergergeld-stopp-fuer-wehrpflichtige-ukrainer-so-will-die-cducsu-soldaten-an-die-front-draengen-li.2197570)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 22, 2024, 05:33
… how can you protect yourself when this comes to you…?! Stop this war asap!

https://t.me/vorposte/53842
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 07:47
… how can you protect yourself when this comes to you…?! Stop this war asap!

https://t.me/vorposte/53842
The war will stop only in two cases:
1. Russian Na.zis will occupy the entire EU.
2. The Ukrainian Armed Forces and democratic countries will liquidate the Russian empire.

Nothing depends on Ukraine regarding stopping the war.

The successful hits of the Russians are the result of the cowardly policies of the US Democrats, Biden and the Europarasites.
Ukraine has no aviation and no medium-long-range missiles. Also, Ukraine has very little good air defense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 07:51
Im Krieg gegen Russland fehlen Soldaten: Union fordert Bürgergeld-Stopp für wehrpflichtige Ukrainer
https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/buergergeld-stopp-fuer-wehrpflichtige-ukrainer-so-will-die-cducsu-soldaten-an-die-front-draengen-li.2197570 (https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/buergergeld-stopp-fuer-wehrpflichtige-ukrainer-so-will-die-cducsu-soldaten-an-die-front-draengen-li.2197570)
I already wrote that Europarasites should return all Ukrainians to Ukraine. These are not only men, but also women and children.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 08:07
In any case, Macron looks belligerent.  ;D like on a picture  ;D ;D ;D

Yeah, sure, the look is what is important. Don't hold your breath for French soldiers or French aviation actually arriving in the Ukraine.
Ukraine does not expect anything good from Europarasites or from US democrats. But, I react to Macron’s statements.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 08:14
The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine.     

ATTACK ON DNIPRO HYDROELECTRIC STATION

On March 22, russia attacked the Dnipro HPP dam in Zaporizhzhia with missiles.

▪ Dnipro HPP is the largest hydroelectric power station in Ukraine, an important critical infrastructure facility serving millions of people.

▪ A Russian missile targeted a trolleybus moving across the dam. A fire broke out at the station. There are human casualties. Road crossing of the dam is completely restricted.

▪ The Russians were aiming at the dam of the Dnipro HPP, trying to cause a new ecological catastrophe like the one when they blew up the dam of the Kakhovka HPP in 2023.

▪ There is currently no threat of a dam breach. The situation is under control.

▪ russia must be stopped before it causes global environmental disasters. The attack against the Dnipro HPP once again showed that the Kremlin terrorists would not stop.

SECURITY OF THE POWER SYSTEM OF UKRAINE

On the night of March 22, the enemy attacked primarily the objects of the energy system of Ukraine in the Zaporizhzhia, Dnipropetrovsk, Kharkiv, Sumy, Vinnytsia, Khmelnytskyi, and Ivano-Frankivsk regions.

▪ The Russian attack on the Ukrainian energy sector has become the largest in recent times. In total, the enemy used 151 means of air attack.

▪ The purpose of enemy shelling is not just to damage, but to cause a large-scale malfunction of the energy system of Ukraine.

▪ As a result of the attack, there were power outages in some regions. Power engineers are already working on the restoration of grids.

▪ The external overhead line PL-750 kV Dniprovska, which connects the temporarily occupied Zaporizhzhia NPP with the united power system of Ukraine, has been disconnected. The plant is on the verge of blackout.

▪ Ukraine has an urgent need for additional air defense/missile defense systems and missiles to them. This is quite possible if the partners have enough political will.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3843279-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-attack-on-dnipro-hpp-security-of-ukraines-power-system-security-meeting-in-kyiv.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3843279-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-attack-on-dnipro-hpp-security-of-ukraines-power-system-security-meeting-in-kyiv.html)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 08:17
(https://i.postimg.cc/sfSc5yXw/Screenshot-20240322-085933-Chrome.jpg)

https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c (https://www.ft.com/content/98f15b60-bc4d-4d3c-9e57-cbdde122ac0c)

______

Biden - Fuck you!
Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 22, 2024, 08:24
… how can you protect yourself when this comes to you…?! Stop this war asap!

https://t.me/vorposte/53842
The war will stop only in two cases:
1. Russian Na.zis will occupy the entire EU.
2. The Ukrainian Armed Forces and democratic countries will liquidate the Russian empire.

Nothing depends on Ukraine regarding stopping the war.

The successful hits of the Russians are the result of the cowardly policies of the US Democrats, Biden and the Europarasites.
Ukraine has no aviation and no medium-long-range missiles. Also, Ukraine has very little good air defense.
… how you can say that nothing depends of Ukraine…?! so, you are aware that Ukraine is just a proxy in war with Russia…? Your people are dying and infrastructure of Ukraine is being destroyed… demography massacred both by weapons and other factors…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 08:29
We are acting in line with NATO best practices – Deputy PM on US calls not to strike Russian refineries

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/c/d/cd4a8d3-c6bf22c-2ccadc4-stefanishyna-fb_690x387.avif)

Olha Stefanishyna, Deputy Prime Minister for European and Euro-Atlantic Integration, has said that oil refineries in Russia are legitimate targets for the Ukrainian military. She added that in this case, Ukraine is acting in accordance with NATO standards.

Source: Stefanishyna at the Kyiv Security Forum

Details: Stefanishyna was asked how the Ukrainian side reacted to the article about the US supposedly calling on Ukraine to stop strikes on Russian oil refineries.

Quote: "The Ukrainian side responded, I think, by mentioning that it was achieving its goals and carrying out very successful operations on the territory of the Russian Federation.

Conversely, there have also been statements from other officials that these are absolutely legitimate targets from a military point of view. We understand the concerns of our American partners. At the same time, we have to make the most of the capabilities, resources and methods that we have.

I would like to remind my colleagues who make such statements that in February 2022, I spoke to NATO headquarters to ask them to turn to the UN, as they are able to enact a ‘no-fly zone’ over Ukraine.

They said: ‘Olha, you don't understand NATO methods’. These NATO methods firstly entail the destruction of infrastructure in [the aggressor country] that makes it possible to bomb [the attacked country’s] cities, such as factories that produce missiles. We are therefore acting in accordance with NATO best practices."

Details: Commenting on the Russian attack on 22 March, Stefanishyna said she expects her partners to provide Ukraine with weapons: "Outrage and condolences are one thing, but we expect weapons first and foremost."

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/22/7447666/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/22/7447666/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 08:30
trucic, I am not quoting the Russian propaganda you write. Learn to write normal texts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 08:54
(https://i.imgur.com/MXVqHZI.png)

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 22, 2024, 09:53
… are you sure that you have u derstand well underlined trxt…?! Or you ARE a Russian troll, like someone have said before…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 22, 2024, 11:55
so, you are aware that Ukraine is just a proxy in war with Russia…?

That's putin's favorite line, you are parroting here!

The war can end tomorrow if putin decides to stop his unprovoked aggression on an independent and sovereign country!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 22, 2024, 12:58
… have I offended you, when you talk like that, Zero Talent…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 22, 2024, 13:06
… like I said, killing will bring more killings…

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240322-gunmen-in-combat-fatigues-open-fire-at-moscow-concert-hall (https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240322-gunmen-in-combat-fatigues-open-fire-at-moscow-concert-hall)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 22, 2024, 14:21
… like I said, killing will bring more killings…

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240322-gunmen-in-combat-fatigues-open-fire-at-moscow-concert-hall (https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240322-gunmen-in-combat-fatigues-open-fire-at-moscow-concert-hall)

Russian orcs and genetic slaves supported their Tsar putin in the elections. This is the result of their choice. These are KGB methods. They are probably planning to blame Ukraine or the peoples of the Caucasus. Somewhere Russian Na.zis want to commit genocide.
If Russian slaves had listened to what the CIA told them just a few weeks ago, they would not have gathered more than three people anywhere.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 22, 2024, 15:38
… have I offended you, when you talk like that, Zero Talent…?!

Of course not. I am simply calling out both putin's apologists as well as putin's useful idiots.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 22, 2024, 16:21
… I’m sorry to hear that, but thank you! Everything is ok, wish you all the best!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 22, 2024, 19:26

… like I said, killing will bring more killings…


Yes, that's right. And that is precisely the reason why Putin must stop his attack on Ukraine immediately and order his soldiers home!!!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 22, 2024, 19:51
… how can you protect yourself when this comes to you…?! Stop this war asap!

https://t.me/vorposte/53842
The war will stop only in two cases:
1. Russian Na.zis will occupy the entire EU.
2. The Ukrainian Armed Forces and democratic countries will liquidate the Russian empire.

Nothing depends on Ukraine regarding stopping the war.

The successful hits of the Russians are the result of the cowardly policies of the US Democrats, Biden and the Europarasites.
Ukraine has no aviation and no medium-long-range missiles. Also, Ukraine has very little good air defense.

so, you are aware that Ukraine is just a proxy in war with Russia…?


One of the reasons Putin gave for the invasion of Ukraine was the following statement in relation to NATO:

"The war machine is on the move and, I repeat, it is approaching our borders."

I don't know exactly which war machine he is talking about. But: through his attack on Ukraine - and ONLY through his attack - two previously neutral countries, namely Finland and Sweden, have joined NATO.

Why?

Have they been bought or pressured or threatened by NATO? NO! The inhabitants and governments of these countries wanted it that way. Why, I don't know. But I can make assumptions: They felt threatened by Russia. And that may have been the case for other countries that had already joined NATO.

So it would be time for Russia to think about why other countries are so afraid of Russia that they give up their neutrality after decades.

If Putin can answer the question of why two formerly neutral states decided to join NATO instead of remaining neutral, then he will have to realize that he needs to work on himself and his policy - a lot and very intensively! And he will no longer be able to present Ukraine as a "proxy" - as you put it. This argument is an absolute farce!!!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 23, 2024, 00:11

… like I said, killing will bring more killings…


Yes, that's right. And that is precisely the reason why Putin must stop his attack on Ukraine immediately and order his soldiers home!!!

… of course, that is going to happen now… do you approve what happened last night…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 23, 2024, 04:25

… like I said, killing will bring more killings…


Yes, that's right. And that is precisely the reason why Putin must stop his attack on Ukraine immediately and order his soldiers home!!!

… do you approve what happened last night…?!


No, definitely not! Any kind of terrorism is terrible! And cowardly! When innocent civilians are killed, there can be no one who thinks that's good!

I also wonder how someone can be proud of such an act and proclaim it for themselves. I have never understood how anyone can be proud of killing innocent civilians! Such perpetrators are not human beings, not even animals.

But I have no idea what this has to do with the attack on Ukraine. Where, by the way, countless civilians also lost their lives. Would you like to explain it to me?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 05:11
No, definitely not! Any kind of terrorism is terrible! And cowardly! When innocent civilians are killed, there can be no one who thinks that's good!
If we talk about Russian orcs, no matter how cynical it may sound, the fewer Russians there are, the fewer of these Russians will come to kill in Ukraine.
Again, 90% of Russians support putin, the remaining 10% support other candidates who support the occupation of other countries and murder.
There are very few normal Russians, perhaps 1% or 3%. And these people do not live in russia, they are fighting on the side of Ukraine.

Therefore, I don’t feel sorry for the Russians, this is the first thing.
Secondly, if you remember the Second World War, for example, Great Britain bombed Germany in order to kill as many civilians as possible. Because civilians are a resource for the German army. And the more of this resource is eliminated, the weaker the army. Everything is very simple.
There is no other way to win the war.
It may be possible to do without the total destruction of the Russians, but for this the US and the EU must apply lethal sanctions against russia and all military objects on Russian territory must be destroyed.

The more blows are dealt to russia, the better for Ukraine. The logic is very simple.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 05:20
 ;D ;D ;D

Another oil refinery on fire in russia

As a result of the explosion, a fire broke out at the refinery near the city of Novokuybyshevsk in Samara Oblast.

Early reports indicate that the refinery was attacked by a drone.

The regional authorities reported that the fire at the refinery’s primary oil distillation tower was caused by a drone attack on the Kuibyshev oil refinery.

"UAVs attacked oil processing plants in the region at night. A fire broke out at the primary oil distillation tower at the Kuibyshev oil refinery."

The Kuibyshev oil refinery specialises in the production of motor fuels, including petrol and diesel fuel meeting Euro-5 emission standards and several dozen other petroleum products in demand on the market.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1771347588135952728 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1771347588135952728)

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 23, 2024, 05:32
… respect @Zero Talent empathy , but big SHAME on you Bram Stoker!!!

… maybe I wasn’t clear, but this presents what spiral of violence is… killings DO bring more killings… but, when someone enjoys and publishes those killings, that provokes me… no metter who are victims, people are being killed there is no place for enjoyement…

p.s. I have seen captured terrorists being interrogated and treated like animals… I do understand anger, but this is disturbing and without any rights…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 05:36
Voice of America asked the White House to comment on the FT publication that the US allegedly urged Ukraine not to attack Russian refineries - Ostap Yarysh

They did not give a specific comment on this, but said that in general "the White House does not encourage attacks inside Russia"

Meanwhile, the reaction in the American expert environment to this publication is quite acute.

📌 Steven Pifer, former US ambassador to Ukraine: "Ukraine is fighting for its life. The US should not tell Kyiv what targets in the Russian Federation it can or cannot strike with its own weapons."

📌 Daniel Fried, former State Department sanctions policy coordinator: "Do Ukrainian attacks on Russian refineries really risk raising crude oil prices? In any case, the United States should not tell Ukraine to refrain from attacking Russia with its own weapons."

📌 Ann Applebaum, journalist and author: "It's hard to imagine a worse time for this kind of pressure. Ukraine is running out of anti-aircraft ammunition because of US procrastination - and at the same time the US is pressuring Ukraine to stop its incredibly successful attacks on Russian oil refineries?"

📌 Timothy Snyder, historian and philosopher: "If true, it would demonstrate a misunderstanding of war, alliance politics, human psychology, and even oil pricing."

📌 George Barros, an analyst at the Institute for the Study of War: "The United States continues its efforts, restraining Ukrainian capabilities necessary to win Russia's genocidal war of aggression. Ukraine will not win if we do not allow it."
_______

Biden! Fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 05:37
trucic, Yesterday you published information about the liquidation of Russians on Russian territory.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 23, 2024, 06:29
I think it's bad when Russian civilians are killed in a barbaric attack.

The war in Ukraine has nothing to do with it.

Every life is precious, I despise anyone who is happy about that. Only scum can be happy about something like that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 06:52
I think it's bad when Russian civilians are killed in a barbaric attack.
The war in Ukraine has nothing to do with it.
Every life is precious, I despise anyone who is happy about that. Only scum can be happy about something like that.
And who is happy? Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers do their job in war. Any destroyed target is a success.
Regarding barbarism, it’s better to ask the Russians. There is such a thing as a boomerang.
As for me, I only statistically stated the facts. No emoticons and emotion icon.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 09:01
 ;D ;D ;D

Since yesterday (22 March), russia has been trying to blame the terrorist attack on Ukraine, even though US intelligence has no doubt that ISIS is behind it and has warned the Kremlin about it in advance.

Ukrainian intelligence rejects Putin's accusations that terrorists were heading to Ukraine

Andrii Yusov, spokesman for Ukraine’s Defence Intelligence emphasised that the version spread by Russia about the perpetrators of the terrorist attack in Moscow Oblast fleeing to Ukraine "does not withstand any criticism."

Quote from Yusov: "You don't need to be a security expert for this. The full-scale war has been going on for over two years, and border territories are saturated with enemy troops, special agents, representatives of intelligence agencies, and law enforcement officers.

The border line is mined, and surveillance is conducted by all means, including aerial reconnaissance, from both sides. Oblasts like Belgorod and Kursk are currently active combat zones after recent events. And, understandably, this version does not withstand criticism understood by everyone in the world except perhaps the Russian population, which may be indoctrinated.

There are all signs that we are dealing precisely with such activities of Russian secret services. Furthermore, it is quite probable that there will be an escalation of hysteria, the tightening of screws, and even the elimination of even the formal remnants of civil rights and freedoms."

Details: The intelligence is confident that Moscow's actions will not have a significant impact on the course of the war. Yusov also believes that Russia will try to use the terrorist attack to change the situation on the international stage.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/23/7447806/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/23/7447806/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 09:03
Russian Na.zis also gathered to return the death penalty to the Russian Empire. To intimidate their own slaves. Although putin successfully kills everyone he wants without the death penalty.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 09:15
Some people are asking what is needed to end the war. A Ukrainian military expert answered this question.

Military analyst, Colonel Petro Chernyk, is convinced that for the first time in a thousand years, Ukrainians have received numerous support from the world community.

Chernyk identified five factors for Ukraine's victory.

First, Russia must disintegrate into one and a half dozen independent states.

Secondly, these entities should not have nuclear weapons.

Thirdly, the conditional Russian republic with its center in Moscow must be cut off from free Siberian resources (oil, gas, timber, gold). After all, approximately 40% of material resources and fresh water are located in these territories.

Fourthly, it is necessary to carry out complex ideological stagnation in the republics. This requires at least one generation.

And the fifth factor, Ukraine must become a full member of NATO.

https://youtu.be/giW4occ9un0


+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 09:21
US TV channels do not say that Russian Na.zis destroyed DNIPRO HYDROELECTRIC STATION. But US TV channels talk about the terrorist attack in russia and sympathize with the Russians.

US Democrats are evil! Trump - crush the Democrats!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 23, 2024, 09:43
Some people are asking what is needed to end the war. A Ukrainian military expert answered this question.

Military analyst, Colonel Petro Chernyk, is convinced that for the first time in a thousand years, Ukrainians have received numerous support from the world community.

Chernyk identified five factors for Ukraine's victory.

First, Russia must disintegrate into one and a half dozen independent states.

Secondly, these entities should not have nuclear weapons.

Thirdly, the conditional Russian republic with its center in Moscow must be cut off from free Siberian resources (oil, gas, timber, gold). After all, approximately 40% of material resources and fresh water are located in these territories.

Fourthly, it is necessary to carry out complex ideological stagnation in the republics. This requires at least one generation.

And the fifth factor, Ukraine must become a full member of NATO.

https://youtu.be/giW4occ9un0


+100


6th factorwake up, your state is devastated…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 23, 2024, 17:03
Volodymyr Zelenskyy

What happened in Moscow yesterday is obvious, and Putin and other scums are trying to shift the blame to someone else. Their methods are always the same. We have seen it all before. There were blown-up houses, mass shootings, and explosions. And they always blame others.

They came to Ukraine, burned down our cities, and then tried to blame Ukraine. They torture and rape people—and then blame them. They have brought hundreds of thousands of their terrorists to Ukrainian territory, and they are waging war against us, but they don’t care about what happens inside their own country. 

All of this happened yesterday, and instead of taking care of his Russian citizens and addressing them, this duffer Putin remained silent for a day, thinking about how to link this to Ukraine. Everything is entirely predictable. Those hundreds of thousands of Russians who are now killing on Ukrainian soil would certainly be enough to deter any terrorists.

And if Russians are willing to die quietly in "crocuses" and not question their special services, Putin will try to exploit more of these situations for personal power. Terrorists must always lose.

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1771638417266257987 (https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1771638417266257987)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 24, 2024, 01:49
Honest opinion of Ukrainians: «Should we start to negotiate with Russia about peace?»

https://youtu.be/FpZlRkUZGV4?si=BFevegC2girMCrNZ
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 24, 2024, 02:18
Trump
An interesting editorial cartoon. Cartoon Museum, London.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 24, 2024, 02:33
… Bram Stoker must be a Russian troll… or he overthinks everything and presents it with a twisted logic…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 24, 2024, 03:11
Trump
An interesting editorial cartoon. Cartoon Museum, London.
Deceitful propaganda from US Democrats. The methods of US Democrats are similar to those of Russian propaganda.
US Democrats and Russian = friends and allies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 24, 2024, 03:21
Honest opinion of Ukrainians: «Should we start to negotiate with Russia about peace?»

https://youtu.be/FpZlRkUZGV4?si=BFevegC2girMCrNZ
This video was specially filmed at the request of the Russians. Of course, you can find stupid people who do not understand how politics and the laws of war work.
In such polls, politicians are guided by sociological research, and not by random interviews commissioned by Russians.

Source: Kyiv International Institute of Sociology based on survey results.
"83% of respondents believe that a victory for Ukraine would be the return of all its territories (within 1991 borders), and not just the cessation of Russian attacks."

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/7/2/72e9367-ua.com.opera--------2023-08-29-103340-kiis.png)

The statistical error of a sample of 2004 respondents at a confidence level of 95% is 2.2%. Assuming that the design effect of such a sample under normal conditions is 1.1, the maximum sampling error should be no more than 2.5%.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 24, 2024, 03:35
… have you listened to that soldier in the middle of the clip…?!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=BFevegC2girMCrNZ&v=FpZlRkUZGV4&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 24, 2024, 08:51
Trump
An interesting editorial cartoon. Cartoon Museum, London.
Deceitful propaganda from US Democrats. The methods of US Democrats are similar to those of Russian propaganda.
US Democrats and Russian = friends and allies.

This cartoon is from 1938, and I have some doubts that the author knew you will exist, when it was made.

As always, you don't think, you don't use logic, you just know one thing go for it like a brainless lemming.

Happy self stabbing!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 24, 2024, 11:10
Trump
An interesting editorial cartoon. Cartoon Museum, London.
Deceitful propaganda from US Democrats. The methods of US Democrats are similar to those of Russian propaganda.
US Democrats and Russian = friends and allies.
This cartoon is from 1938, and I have some doubts that the author knew you will exist, when it was made.
As always, you don't think, you don't use logic, you just know one thing go for it like a brainless lemming.
Happy self stabbing!
Dude, you took a drawing from the Internet, then you wrote propaganda on this drawing. In the end, you created the propaganda yourself. You're a troll! How much do Democrats pay you?

I'm not sure you can use other people's work to create deceitful propaganda. Make sure you don't have to answer before a court in the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 24, 2024, 14:09
(https://i.imgur.com/FuM61Uo.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 24, 2024, 14:24
United States Vice President Joe Biden, right, and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev smile during a meeting at the presidential residence in Gorky, near Moscow, Russia, Wednesday, March 9, 2011.

(https://snipboard.io/8wHlB7.jpg)

Why not support your Russian friends, right Biden?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 24, 2024, 15:01
Trump
An interesting editorial cartoon. Cartoon Museum, London.
Deceitful propaganda from US Democrats. The methods of US Democrats are similar to those of Russian propaganda.
US Democrats and Russian = friends and allies.
This cartoon is from 1938, and I have some doubts that the author knew you will exist, when it was made.
As always, you don't think, you don't use logic, you just know one thing go for it like a brainless lemming.
Happy self stabbing!
Dude, you took a drawing from the Internet, then you wrote propaganda on this drawing. In the end, you created the propaganda yourself. You're a troll! How much do Democrats pay you?

I'm not sure you can use other people's work to create deceitful propaganda. Make sure you don't have to answer before a court in the USA.

You are ignorant of many things, but you think you know it all.
You fail to understand that propaganda is for the masses, while this cartoon is dedicated to you; your name is on it.

Look up semidoctus.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 24, 2024, 16:29
You fail to understand that propaganda is for the masses, while this cartoon is dedicated to you; your name is on it.
1. My name is not there.
2. Are you here on the stock forum telling us that you can download other people’s works from the Internet, change them and publish them on the Internet?
3. You created propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 24, 2024, 16:47
You fail to understand that propaganda is for the masses, while this cartoon is dedicated to you; your name is on it.

 You created propaganda.


Oh, how outrageous!
And this is criticized by someone who would never even think of spreading propaganda.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 24, 2024, 18:14
You fail to understand that propaganda is for the masses, while this cartoon is dedicated to you; your name is on it.
1. My name is not there.


Look closer ...

PS. As I said before, the original is an editorial cartoon published in newspapers back in 1938.

Even if it were commercially copyrighted, its copyright has long since expired, and it has been part of the public domain for many years. And I am not even mentioning fair use policy. For someone dealing with stock, such elementary copyright matters should be well understood.

But no surprise: your narrow-sighted view of the world, your lack of comprehension of basic facts, your inability to think on your feet and apply common sense logic are already public knowledge.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 03:45
And I am not even mentioning fair use policy.
:o :o :o
When the Republicans sue you for propaganda, you will talk about politics there.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 03:46
PS. As I said before, the original is an editorial cartoon published in newspapers back in 1938.
Even if it were commercially copyrighted, its copyright has long since expired, and it has been part of the public domain for many years.
:o ??? :-\
 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

Zero Talent, you consider yourself the smartest. Prove by your own example that what you write is not a lie. Upload this image to your shutterstock account, you can even make changes to the image. And tell us all whether this image was accepted from you or not, and under what license it was accepted (commercial or editorial).
Are you ready to risk your account?

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 25, 2024, 07:11
That cartoon is dedicated to you and  it obvioulsy stroke a chord, proving that "A picture is worth ten thousand words".

Oops! According to your poor understanding of copyright laws and how irony (and reality, in general) work, you may think I plagiarized Fred R. Barnard. Oh no!

Here is your cartoon again. Happy self-stabbing!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 25, 2024, 07:11
PS. As I said before, the original is an editorial cartoon published in newspapers back in 1938.
Even if it were commercially copyrighted, its copyright has long since expired, and it has been part of the public domain for many years.
:o ??? :-\
 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

Zero Talent, you consider yourself the smartest. Prove by your own example that what you write is not a lie. Upload this image to your shutterstock account, you can even make changes to the image. And tell us all whether this image was accepted from you or not, and under what license it was accepted (commercial or editorial).
Are you ready to risk your account?

 ;D ;D ;D

I don't understand what you're getting at!

ZT posted the image here in the forum. He doesn't want to market it for commercial purposes. Why would he upload it to shuttersock? What's the point?

Or are you planning to upload all the images you have posted here in the forum to shutterstock for sale? Do you have the rights to the images you have posted? I don't know what the point of this post is!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 07:26
In terms of happiness, the United States dropped from 15th place to 23rd.
In the election, this will affect Biden's rating.

https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2024/happiness-of-the-younger-the-older-and-those-in-between/#ranking-of-happiness-2021-2023
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 07:28
PS. As I said before, the original is an editorial cartoon published in newspapers back in 1938.
Even if it were commercially copyrighted, its copyright has long since expired, and it has been part of the public domain for many years.
:o ??? :-\
 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

Zero Talent, you consider yourself the smartest. Prove by your own example that what you write is not a lie. Upload this image to your shutterstock account, you can even make changes to the image. And tell us all whether this image was accepted from you or not, and under what license it was accepted (commercial or editorial).
Are you ready to risk your account?

 ;D ;D ;D

I don't understand what you're getting at!

ZT posted the image here in the forum. He doesn't want to market it for commercial purposes. Why would he upload it to shuttersock? What's the point?

Or are you planning to upload all the images you have posted here in the forum to shutterstock for sale? Do you have the rights to the images you have posted? I don't know what the point of this post is!
Zero Talent modifies other people's works, turns them into propaganda, posts it on the Internet and claims that it does not violate anyone's copyright. I offered to prove it to him, but he continued trolling and flooding. Zero Talent admitted its own worthlessness.
As for me, I do not change anyone's intellectual property. All I publish are links to open sources.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 07:30
"A picture is worth ten thousand words".
Yes, this is the principle of how propaganda works.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 25, 2024, 08:04
"A picture is worth ten thousand words".
Yes, this is the principle of how propaganda works.
No, propaganda works through all media, including words, and it's meant for masses.

But you aggrandize yourself. This cartoon is dedicated to you; it has your name on it. It's not for the masses.

You are just a misguided, delusional individual who thinks that maga and trump will help Ukraine. Nope, they will stab Ukraine in the back.

Here you have it. Words, not pictures, telling you the same thing, but it's harder for you to comprehend them.

Happy self-stabbing!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 25, 2024, 08:36
Security Service of Ukraine Target of Ballistic Attack on Kyiv – SBU
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30030 (https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30030)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 25, 2024, 08:39
Two Patriot systems hit in Russian attack on Kyiv

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/liveblog/2024/3/25/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-at-least-four-injured-as-missiles-hit-kyiv (https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/liveblog/2024/3/25/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-at-least-four-injured-as-missiles-hit-kyiv)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 09:33
The Islamic State group has claimed responsibility for Friday’s deadly attack at the Crocus City Hall, a popular concert venue on the outskirts of Moscow, which killed at least 137 people and injured at least 182 others.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/23/islamic-state-khorasan-isis-moscow-explainer/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/23/islamic-state-khorasan-isis-moscow-explainer/)

________
russia is a country of unafraid idiots. After the Russians started killing Ukrainian civilians and sending their orcs and KGB agents into Ukraine, the entire territory of the Russian empire is free for any attacks.
I think the Russian Na.zis do not feel sorry for the citizens of russia, and Tsar putin will blame all ISIS attacks on russia on Ukraine.

Now there are two versions about ISIS.
1. ISIS independently committed a terrorist attack. (60%)
2. The KGB asked ISIS to carry out a terrorist attack. (40%)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 09:37
maga and trump will help Ukraine.
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 09:40
Two Patriot systems hit in Russian attack on Kyiv

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/liveblog/2024/3/25/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-at-least-four-injured-as-missiles-hit-kyiv (https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/liveblog/2024/3/25/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-at-least-four-injured-as-missiles-hit-kyiv)
This is Russian lies and propaganda. The source refers to Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 25, 2024, 09:54
… why should they lie about it…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 10:14
… why should they lie about it…?!
Everything the Russians write is lies and propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 25, 2024, 10:23
maga and trump will help Ukraine.
+100

Same message, different image:
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/2pCPJqG46awAAAAC/yes-adventure-time.gif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 25, 2024, 10:25
PS. As I said before, the original is an editorial cartoon published in newspapers back in 1938.
Even if it were commercially copyrighted, its copyright has long since expired, and it has been part of the public domain for many years.
:o ??? :-\
 :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

Zero Talent, you consider yourself the smartest. Prove by your own example that what you write is not a lie. Upload this image to your shutterstock account, you can even make changes to the image. And tell us all whether this image was accepted from you or not, and under what license it was accepted (commercial or editorial).
Are you ready to risk your account?

 ;D ;D ;D

I don't understand what you're getting at!

ZT posted the image here in the forum. He doesn't want to market it for commercial purposes. Why would he upload it to shuttersock? What's the point?

Or are you planning to upload all the images you have posted here in the forum to shutterstock for sale? Do you have the rights to the images you have posted? I don't know what the point of this post is!
Zero Talent modifies other people's works, turns them into propaganda, posts it on the Internet and claims that it does not violate anyone's copyright. I offered to prove it to him, but he continued trolling and flooding. Zero Talent admitted its own worthlessness.
As for me, I do not change anyone's intellectual property. All I publish are links to open sources.

You are constantly publishing CURRENT images here that are subject to copyright (which has not yet expired) such as the Taurus caricature and personal rights.

Did you ask the photographers for permission before posting the pictures here? Have you paid the photographers whose pictures you use here for your propaganda purposes? Did you ask Mr. Macron whether he agreed to the use of the photomontage with his likeness?

I think you should handle it in the same way as with other issues: Before you criticize others, you should first start with yourself and ask yourself whether your actions entitle you to criticize others.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 10:32
You are constantly publishing CURRENT images here that are subject to copyright (which has not yet expired) such as the Taurus caricature and personal rights.

Did you ask the photographers for permission before posting the pictures here? Have you paid the photographers whose pictures you use here for your propaganda purposes? Did you ask Mr. Macron whether he agreed to the use of the photomontage with his likeness?

I think you should handle it in the same way as with other issues: Before you criticize others, you should first start with yourself and ask yourself whether your actions entitle you to criticize others.

1. I only publish links to images that are in the public domain and where the author posted them. If there are violations of someone’s rights, then file claims against the people who created and posted these images.
2. If the copyright holder removes these images from the Internet, they will not appear on this forum.
3. I do not distribute or create propaganda on this forum, I only write the truth.
4. Zero Talent's problem is that he started altering someone else's work and posted the altered image in the Internet. This is 100% copyright infringement.
5. Zero Talent also created propaganda from someone else's image. He risks being sued by the Republican Party.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 25, 2024, 10:33
… why should they lie about it…?!
Everything the Russians write is lies and propaganda.
… then, who is not lying inside your universum…?! EU parasites, American Democrats, Russian Orcs and now AlJazeera… they are all liars…?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 25, 2024, 10:36
You are constantly publishing CURRENT images here that are subject to copyright (which has not yet expired) such as the Taurus caricature and personal rights.

Did you ask the photographers for permission before posting the pictures here? Have you paid the photographers whose pictures you use here for your propaganda purposes? Did you ask Mr. Macron whether he agreed to the use of the photomontage with his likeness?

I think you should handle it in the same way as with other issues: Before you criticize others, you should first start with yourself and ask yourself whether your actions entitle you to criticize others.

1. I only publish links to images that are in the public domain and where the author posted them. If there are violations of someone’s rights, then file claims against the people who created and posted these images.
2. If the copyright holder removes these images from the Internet, they will not appear on this forum.
3. I do not distribute or create propaganda on this forum, I only write the truth.
4. Zero Talent's problem is that he started altering someone else's work and posted the altered image in the Internet. This is 100% copyright infringement.

… Zero Talent is a KGB agent…?! Only they can do such monstrosities…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 10:37
… why should they lie about it…?!
Everything the Russians write is lies and propaganda.
… then, who is not lying inside your universum…?! EU parasites, American Democrats, Russian Orcs and now AlJazeera… they are all liars…?
Only Russians always write 100% lies and propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 10:38
… Zero Talent is a KGB agent…?! Only they can do such monstrosities…
No, he is a troll from the US Democratic Party.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 25, 2024, 10:43
risks being sued by the Republican Party.  ;D ;D ;D

Yes, the maga party will certainly jump to defend your injured ego.
You can count on it, the same way you can count on them to defend Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 10:43
Within a week, the topic was read by 8 thousand people.  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 10:46
Zero Talent, have you decided to pretend to be a hero?  ;D
I have already suggested to you, upload the image you modified to your account on shutterstock. Then I’ll laugh at you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 25, 2024, 12:30
Zero Talent, have you decided to pretend to be a hero?  ;D
I have already suggested to you, upload the image you modified to your account on shutterstock. Then I’ll laugh at you.

I suggest you stop making moronic suggestions.
Do your homework and study the matter instead of flaunting your ignorance, over and over again.

Happy self-stabbing!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 25, 2024, 15:44
Zero Talent, I see US Democrats as victims in your drawings. You've painted a "good" future for Democrats. They deserve it!
 ;D ;D ;D

In psychology, it is generally accepted that a person reflects his thoughts with his drawings. As for you, a Democratic troll, you are afraid of the Republicans coming to power, you are afraid of justice. This is all visible in your drawings.
I also recommend that you see a psychiatrist, you need to be examined. You may be unsafe for others.
I'm even afraid to think what a psychiatrist will think of you when he sees your drawings.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 25, 2024, 17:09
This is all visible in your drawings.
I also recommend that you see a psychiatrist, you need to be examined. You may be unsafe for others.
I'm even afraid to think what a psychiatrist will think of you when he sees your drawings.

These are memes, you ignoramus.
Do you know what a meme is?

On the one hand, you accuse me of stealing meme templates from the internet, and now you think these are my drawings. You also seem to think you are a psychologist.
You are so confused...

(https://c.tenor.com/8pOzuT-yhaEAAAAC/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on March 25, 2024, 22:44

Only Russians always write 100% lies and propaganda.
2+2=4
stoker2014 = naZZZi liar
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 03:30
You are so confused...
No, I'm afraid for the people who are around you.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 03:33
 8) 8) 8)

(https://i.ibb.co/84fVZyr/GJe1-EUy-XUAAK6-Me.jpg)

As we can see, Trump, unlike the weak Biden, is in good physical and mental shape.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 26, 2024, 07:27
8) 8) 8)

(https://i.ibb.co/84fVZyr/GJe1-EUy-XUAAK6-Me.jpg)

As we can see, Trump, unlike the weak Biden, is in good physical and mental shape.

Yes, yes... of course he won. And putin scored 8 goals in a hockey match!

....and they say it's not a cult!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 08:19
Yes, yes... of course he won. And putin scored 8 goals in a hockey match!

....and they say it's not a cult!
There is no point in citing the Russian Tsar as an example. Nobody knows whether putin is alive or, if alive, in what condition he is. Russian slaves are shown every day some different people who look like putin. These people play hockey and visit other terrorist countries. But these people don’t eat anything at receptions and their feces is carried out in suitcases. They don't want to leave their DNA anywhere. Because the DNA of the first putin is known to intelligence services in other countries.

As for Trump, of course you can laugh at his text, but unlike Biden, he stands confidently on his feet, doesn’t fall and even plays golf!  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 08:31
Ukraine. Elimination of Russian orcs.  8) 8) 8)

https://t.me/ssternenko/26787

https://t.me/ssternenko/26776

https://t.me/pidrozdilshadowoficial/424
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 26, 2024, 08:34

As for Trump, of course you can laugh at his text, but unlike Biden, he stands confidently on his feet, doesn’t fall and even plays golf!  ;D

Unlike trump, putin stands even more confidently on his feet, so you must like him more.

Rest assured that trump's golf cheating is helping Ukraine as much as putin's hockey cheating.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 08:46
Biden  ::) ::) ::) :'( :'( :'(

(https://images.newsru.co.il/l/213/60/2136064.jpg?cb=1685686402)

(https://debaty.sumy.ua/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/162533089_3629644200480868_4040821691889501039_o.jpg)

https://youtu.be/_ctthyYjglw
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 08:49
Rest assured that trump's golf cheating is helping Ukraine as much as putin's hockey cheating.
The truth is that you are personally supporting a person who cannot even walk independently. Giving Biden the presidency is a huge blow to the strength and power of the United States, as well as to democracy around the world.
I believe that Biden should now be dismissed, followed by imprisonment.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 26, 2024, 08:58
Rest assured that trump's golf cheating is helping Ukraine as much as putin's hockey cheating.
The truth is that you are personally supporting a person who cannot even walk independently
This is factually incorrect.

Besides, if that's your criterion, you must like putin a lot! He can not only score 8 goals in a hockey match, but swim in freezing waters, ride horses barechested, do judo, etc... he is much better than your beloved golf cheater.

FYI, This man won 4 presidential elections and served as US president for 12 years, running the country from his wheelchair during the war.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 09:07
FYI, This man won 4 presidential elections and served as US president for 12 years, running the country from his wheelchair during the war.
Biden's problem is not only that he can barely stand on his feet, but also that he is already confusing Ukraine with the Gaza Strip. Biden's brain has not been working well for a long time; he has memory problems. I'm not even talking about his cowardice and friendship with the Russians.

I have already answered all your other questions today. You should re-read what I wrote 3 times.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 26, 2024, 09:45
Why Ukraine’s refugees aren’t going to France

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraines-refugees-arent-going-to-france/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraines-refugees-arent-going-to-france/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 09:53
Why Ukraine’s refugees aren’t going to France

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraines-refugees-arent-going-to-france/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraines-refugees-arent-going-to-france/)
All this is of course rave.
Ukraine is a safe country. The hype, fears, all this is being hyped up in all the media, creating panic among people. I think the EU countries are interested in panic in Ukraine and want to keep for yourself more Ukrainians.
As for France, people there don’t know English and don’t want to learn it. The French are also very arrogant. Probably those who know French go there. In Ukraine, French is not popular in schools.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 26, 2024, 09:58
… you have to convince them to get back home, but not with your self-stabbing ideas… Zelenskyi is not helping, either - chasing people on streets and promoting new rules for 18 agers as army potential candidates…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 26, 2024, 10:05
Razumkov: General Staff confirms that the new draft law provides for mobilization from the age of 18

https://frontnews.eu/en/news/details/76926
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 10:22
Razumkov: General Staff confirms that the new draft law provides for mobilization from the age of 18

https://frontnews.eu/en/news/details/76926
This is US President Biden's fault. When there are no modern weapons, it is necessary to mobilize many people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 26, 2024, 10:33
… people…?! …late teens!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 11:49
… people…?! …late teens!
What do you want to hear?
Let them pass such a law first. As far as I know, we are talking about military training, which must be completed within 3-5 years. After passing it, it is possible to be sent to the front. Each person will decide for himself at what age to undergo it.
In Ukraine, there are different opinions about mobilization and who needs to be mobilized. These are all internal issues of Ukraine, incl. aking into account corruption.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 26, 2024, 11:49
FYI, This man won 4 presidential elections and served as US president for 12 years, running the country from his wheelchair during the war.
Biden's problem is not only that he can barely stand on his feet, but also that he is already confusing Ukraine with the Gaza Strip. Biden's brain has not been working well for a long time; he has memory problems. I'm not even talking about his cowardice and friendship with the Russians.

I have already answered all your other questions today. You should re-read what I wrote 3 times.

Here is your "stable genius" just saying that "you can't have an election in the middle of a political season".

https://x.com/Sky_Lee_1/status/1772312343629688853

If you believe that his mental faculties are sound, you should question your own first. Only a ten-year-old would shamelessly brag about winning against his sycophants in a tournament that he organized.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 11:52
Only a ten-year-old would shamelessly brag about winning against his sycophants in a tournament that he organized.
I wasn't there, I don't know the details. Have you been to the tournament?  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 11:53
Here is your "stable genius" just saying that "you can't have an election in the middle of a political season".

https://x.com/Sky_Lee_1/status/1772312343629688853
I didn't understand what you were talking about. Explain in more detail what Trump is talking about.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 26, 2024, 12:03
Only a ten-year-old would shamelessly brag about winning against his sycophants in a tournament that he organized.
I wasn't there, I don't know the details. Have you been to the tournament?  ;D
How do you know he won that tournament if you were not there?
How do you know he is in great physical and mental shape if you have never seen him in person, when his daily photos and daily gaffes prove the opposite?

It's well documented that trump wins his own golf tournaments the same way putin scores 8 goals in a hockey match:
https://youtu.be/AH8CFPXCz90

Here is your "stable genius" just saying that "you can't have an election in the middle of a political season".

https://x.com/Sky_Lee_1/status/1772312343629688853
I didn't understand what you were talking about. Explain in more detail what Trump is talking about.

Comprehension of facts eludes you again: basically, your "stable genius" claims that we can't have elections when we have elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 14:56
https://youtu.be/AH8CFPXCz90
This is all dirt and propaganda from the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 14:57
Comprehension of facts eludes you again: basically, your "stable genius" claims that we can't have elections when we have elections.
And what does Trump offer?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 26, 2024, 16:03
8) 8) 8)

(https://i.ibb.co/84fVZyr/GJe1-EUy-XUAAK6-Me.jpg)

As we can see, Trump, unlike the weak Biden, is in good physical and mental shape.


Trump is so fit that he's the only golfer I know who drives a cart straight onto the green.

Otherwise, his golf is like King Jong Il's. Simply incredible - and all completely without cheating. The heroes of world politics really are on the same level - even at golf!

https://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/elf-asse-nordkoreas-machthaber-kim-jong-il-der-beste-golfer-der-welt-a-634900.html (https://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/elf-asse-nordkoreas-machthaber-kim-jong-il-der-beste-golfer-der-welt-a-634900.html)

It's definitely good to highlight this particular skill of Donald Trump. He is as great at golf as he will be at politics if he is elected. Some people will then feel cheated too. You'll be one of them!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 26, 2024, 16:13
https://youtu.be/AH8CFPXCz90
This is all dirt and propaganda from the Democrats.
Of course, it is. That's what you always say when reality is shattering your preconceived beliefs.
You can see him with your own eyes pushing the ball into the hole with his hand, but that's not reality for you, it's propaganda!

And they say it's not a cult!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 26, 2024, 16:38
Comprehension of facts eludes you again: basically, your "stable genius" claims that we can't have elections when we have elections.
And what does Trump offer?

He doesn't offer anything. He is simply confused.

His declining mental abilities prevented him from saying that he should not be tried in court during an election, or something like that...

Instead, we should not have an election when we have an election.
Maybe we should have an election when we don't have an election?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 16:47
You can see him with your own eyes pushing the ball into the hole with his hand
So Trump is also a juggler!  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 26, 2024, 16:54
Why Ukraine’s refugees aren’t going to France

https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraines-refugees-arent-going-to-france/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraines-refugees-arent-going-to-france/)

The French are also very arrogant.

This world is still so simple. Black or white.

People like you, who are free of stereotypical thinking and prejudices, are truly an enrichment for this world. You'll make friends for yourself (and your home country - if you really are Ukrainian) everywhere.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 26, 2024, 17:07
Wilm, I see sarcasm in your text.  ;D

As for me, I support the Republicans, not Trump. Trump, of course, is not bad compared to Biden either, but I am only interested in the Republicans in power in the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 26, 2024, 17:11
I think the EU countries are interested in panic in Ukraine and want to keep for yourself more Ukrainians.
As for France, people there don’t know English and don’t want to learn it. The French are also very arrogant. Probably those who know French go there. In Ukraine, French is not popular in schools.

Interesting how you judge other countries, in this case France, from your basement window. Once again you are using primitive, unsubstantiated prejudices.

Incidentally, French people don't necessarily have to learn English because they get on very well with the language in France. And in many other beautiful countries with friendly people:

Luxembourg, Belgium, Switzerland, Morocco, Madagascar, many African and Caribbean countries.

The fact that You don't speak the language doesn't make French arrogant.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on March 26, 2024, 21:14
Incidentally, French people don't necessarily have to learn English because they get on very well with the language in France. And in many other beautiful countries with friendly people:

Pupils in France still lern usually at least two foreign languages, the first one is in most cases English, the most widely chosen second language is Spanish, followed by German with a wide distance.

Of course this does not mean that every adult in France actually speaks Englisch or another language, because the less you use a language the more you tend to forget.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 26, 2024, 23:49
A Polish brigadier general was one of those who died as a result of a Russian Iskander missile strike on the Chasov Yar.

https://x.com/vicktop55/status/1772702645511200896?s=20
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 04:00
Interesting how you judge other countries, in this case France, from your basement window.
This is correct to say about all Ukrainians living in Ukraine. Constant Russian air strikes force people to stay in basements.

Incidentally, French people don't necessarily have to learn English because they get on very well with the language in France. And in many other beautiful countries with friendly people:
Morocco, Madagascar, many African and Caribbean countries.
Former French colonies! I appreciated your humor!
 ;D ;D ;D
The problem is that Ukraine was not a colony of France. In Ukraine, the French were eliminated during the war with Napoleon. Therefore, excuse me, but Ukrainians had no time to learn French, except when communicating with captured French.  ;D
Now Russian orcs are being eliminated in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 27, 2024, 05:00
… Ukraine was not, but will be if it isn’t at the moment… you think that all that support is a gift…?! 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 08:43
… Ukraine was not, but will be if it isn’t at the moment… you think that all that support is a gift…?!
What are you writing about? What gifts are you writing about?
As for the history of Ukraine, you need to start studying it from the 9th century.

https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B8%D1%97%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C (https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B8%D1%97%D0%B2%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 27, 2024, 09:17
War and Theft: The Takeover of Ukraine’s Agricultural Land

https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/war-and-theft-takeover-ukraines-agricultural-land
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 10:00
War and Theft: The Takeover of Ukraine’s Agricultural Land

https://reliefweb.int/report/ukraine/war-and-theft-takeover-ukraines-agricultural-land
+100

Europarasites and US democrats are doing everything to buy Ukrainian land for meager money.
In total we have the following:
1. Europarasites take Ukrainians from Ukraine into labor slavery in EU countries.
2. Ukrainian land is being bought up by Europarasites and businessmen from North America.
3. Russian orcs occupy Ukraine, kill Ukrainians and also deport Ukrainians to russia as slaves.

Our only hope is Trump.

Yes, such realities, such truth. Ukraine is being torn to pieces by vultures.

(https://st2.depositphotos.com/4507459/11593/i/450/depositphotos_115935312-stock-photo-predatory-birds-eat-the-prey.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 27, 2024, 10:17
… modern colonisation… that’s why I am talking nothing is free..: they are protecting their investements and you are doing them a favor by using and paying for weapons… if Trump wins, by loans…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 10:44
… modern colonisation… that’s why I am talking nothing is free..: they are protecting their investements and you are doing them a favor by using and paying for weapons… if Trump wins, by loans…
Here you are wrong and your reasoning is very primitive. I wrote a lot about this to everyone.

1. You cannot compare people in the EU countries and North America with Russian orcs. These are completely different people. More precisely, Russians are not people.
2. In the EU countries there is democracy, in russia there is fas.cism and Naz.ism.
3. There are a lot of Europarasites in EU countries, it’s true.
4. There is corruption and crime in NATO countries, this is also true.
5. NATO does not colonize Ukraine, these countries help Ukraine kill Russian orcs so that the Russians do not approach the borders of the EU and begin further occupation of EU countries.
6. Trump offers not only interest-free loans, but also loans that, under certain conditions, do not even need to be repaid. Everything depends on the level of well-being of Ukraine. Of course, Ukraine is ready to return any loan if it has such an opportunity. Also, under the Republicans, Lend-Lease is possible, and this is not a loan at all, but a direct supply of weapons to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 27, 2024, 12:22
… then just sit and wait… prey for Trumps victory, peace and justice in your modern world…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 13:56
The US Department of State has stated that it has not changed its position on Ukrainian strikes targeting Russian oil refineries and does not encourage such attacks.

Source: Matthew Miller, spokesperson for the US Department of State

Quote: "It has always been our position since the outset of this war that we do not encourage or support Ukraine taking strikes outside its own territory."
_________

Biden - Fuck you!
Democrats - Fuck you!


US Democrats are friends and allies of the Russians. Putin correctly said that the best US president for russia is the fuckhead Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 15:28
Macron Wants to Run Europe’s Foreign Policy. Not Everyone Agrees.

(https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i9vHYW.ocoBA/v1/1200x800.jpg)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-27/macron-wants-to-be-europe-s-de-facto-leader-on-foreign-policy-is-it-working?embedded-checkout=true (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-03-27/macron-wants-to-be-europe-s-de-facto-leader-on-foreign-policy-is-it-working?embedded-checkout=true)

 ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 15:55


Biden - Fuck you!
Democrats - Fuck you!





"3. I do not distribute or create propaganda on this forum, I only write the truth."

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 15:59

Putin correctly said that the best US president for russia is the fuckhead Biden.


That is interesting.

According to you, everything that comes from Russia is propaganda.

If Putin then says something that he of course means exactly the opposite of, then that's not Russian propaganda for you.

You are a strange contemporary!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 16:20

Biden - Fuck you!
Democrats - Fuck you!



"3. I do not distribute or create propaganda on this forum, I only write the truth."

This is Ukraine’s position, not propaganda. This is how the media in Ukraine and citizens react. Well, this coincides with my point of view.
When was a personal point of view considered propaganda?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 16:24
Putin correctly said that the best US president for russia is the fuckhead Biden.
That is interesting.
According to you, everything that comes from Russia is propaganda.
If Putin then says something that he of course means exactly the opposite of, then that's not Russian propaganda for you.
You are a strange contemporary!
1. The word putin must be written with a small letter.
2. Russian propaganda is 100% false. But Biden is persistently and systematically trying to meet the demands of the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 16:27
Honestly, Putin lies when he opens his mouth. As far as I know, you see it that way too.

And you believe him on this one single statement?

If you have studied mathematics, which is based on logic, even you should eventually realize that there is a colossal flaw in your system.

If you were to try to think logically, it would give you a lot to think about what it might mean when Putin claims that he prefers Biden as president.

Think about it calmly!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 16:32

Biden - Fuck you!
Democrats - Fuck you!



"3. I do not distribute or create propaganda on this forum, I only write the truth."

This is Ukraine’s position, not propaganda. This is how the media in Ukraine and citizens react. Well, this coincides with my point of view.
When was a personal point of view considered propaganda?

You're contradicting yourself - as usual. You accused Zero Talent of propaganda for the Democrats in the context of the comic. If you like, he was just presenting his view of things. You classify that as propaganda, but if you present your view of things, is that suddenly no longer propaganda?

There's something wrong with your system!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 16:35

Biden - Fuck you!
Democrats - Fuck you!



"3. I do not distribute or create propaganda on this forum, I only write the truth."

This is Ukraine’s position, not propaganda. This is how the media in Ukraine and citizens react.


Yes, of course, all Ukrainians see it that way.
Just like all Russians are orcs, all French are arrogant, all Europeans are parasites and all Germans want to solve their demographic problems with Ukrainian refugees.

You are and always will be a weirdo.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 16:39

Biden - Fuck you!
Democrats - Fuck you!



"3. I do not distribute or create propaganda on this forum, I only write the truth."

When was a personal point of view considered propaganda?



"In its modern meaning, propaganda refers to targeted attempts to shape political opinions or public views..."

That is what you permanently do - but without success in here!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 16:41
Putin correctly said that the best US president for russia is the fuckhead Biden.
That is interesting.
According to you, everything that comes from Russia is propaganda.
If Putin then says something that he of course means exactly the opposite of, then that's not Russian propaganda for you.
You are a strange contemporary!

1. The word putin must be written with a small letter.


Since we communicate in English here, Putin is spelled with a capital letter because it is a name.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 16:45
Putin correctly said that the best US president for russia is the fuckhead Biden.
That is interesting.
According to you, everything that comes from Russia is propaganda.
If Putin then says something that he of course means exactly the opposite of, then that's not Russian propaganda for you.
You are a strange contemporary!


2. Russian propaganda is 100% false.


100% is 100%. If Putin writes that he prefers Biden, that must be wrong - from a purely mathematical point of view - because Putin is Russian and makes propaganda.

Or is 100% not 100% in your math?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 27, 2024, 16:58
Honestly, Putin lies when he opens his mouth. As far as I know, you see it that way too.

And you believe him on this one single statement?
You don't read what I write well. I don't trust the Russians. I just wrote that Biden is trying to match what putin said. That's all I said. I am not responsible for Biden's policies.
Therefore, Biden’s policies are criminal and his place is in the electric chair.

As for all your other posts, this is 100% flood, I see no point in commenting on anything.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 27, 2024, 17:20
Honestly, Putin lies when he opens his mouth. As far as I know, you see it that way too.

And you believe him on this one single statement?

You don't read what I write well.


You don't read what you write yourself. Perhaps you should read your statements carefully.

As I said before: think about it calmly. And only answer when you have really understood your own lines.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 28, 2024, 08:46
This is all you need to know about Scholz (colleague of KGB agent Merkel). All in one picture.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/a/5/a52cea8-scholz-putin_690x387.avif)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 28, 2024, 08:50
Polish media reveal how Polish PM persuaded Macron to change import terms against Ukraine's favour

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/28/7448531/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/03/28/7448531/)

An interesting article about how many Europarasites want to help the Russians carry out the genocide of Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 28, 2024, 08:57
(https://st2.depositphotos.com/4507459/11593/i/450/depositphotos_115935312-stock-photo-predatory-birds-eat-the-prey.jpg)

The photo shows Europarasites.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 28, 2024, 10:07
This is all you need to know about Scholz (colleague of KGB agent Merkel). All in one picture.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/a/5/a52cea8-scholz-putin_690x387.avif)

 ;D ;D ;D

The KGB agent and his useful idiot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 28, 2024, 10:12
https://twitter.com/MykhailoRohoza/status/1773144494663197002

"I already wrote a couple of days ago that the terrorist attack in Crocus Hall will make the Moscow regime the beginning of a new stage of the war against Ukraine. And this stage is officially announced.
On March 27, the website of the Moscow Patriarchate published an order of the World Russian people's Council, which calls the war in Ukraine "sacred" and states that "the entire territory of Modern Ukraine should enter the zone of exclusive influence of russia."
Here is a quote for you: "during the cathedral Congress, which took place on March 27, 2024 in the Hall of church cathedrals of the Cathedral of Chr.ist the saviour in Moscow under the chairmanship of the head of the Supreme Council of the Russian Orthodox Church, His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and all russia, the order of the XXV all-Russian people's Council "the present and future of the Russian world" was approved (Moscow, November 27-28 2023)...
The special military operation is a new stage in the national liberation struggle of the Russian people against the criminal Kiev regime and the collective West behind it, which has been waged on the lands of South-West russia since 2014. In their course, the Russian people with weapons in their hands defend their life, freedom, State, civilizational, religious, national and cultural identity, as well as the right to live on their own land within the borders of a single Russian state. From a spiritual and moral point of view, a special military operation is a holy war in which russia and its people, protecting the United spiritual space of Holy russia, fulfill the mission of "holding", protecting the world from the onslaught of globalism and the victory of the West that has fallen into satanism.
After the completion of its work, the entire territory of Modern Ukraine must enter the zone of exclusive influence of russia. The possibility of a Russophobic, hostile russia and its people having a political regime on this territory, and even a political regime controlled from an external Center hostile russia, should be completely excluded."
You may recall that a new stage of the war with a full-scale invasion was announced in April 2021 by an article by methodologist Timofey Sergeitsev on the RIA-Novosti website. I also drew attention in April 2021 to the fact that this article is a direct call to kill Ukrainians and we need to prepare for an attack.
The document of the Council of the Moscow Patriarchate is a higher level. And this is a call to destroy Ukrainians as a nation, as a state, as an identity. Destroy each of us.
Let me also remind you that the other day putin said that the war with Ukraine is becoming the main thing for all Russians."
_______

The Russian Na.zi Church openly supports the Russian orcs and their Hitler putin.
Stockers from different countries! Find out what relationship your churches have with the Russian Church. Any contacts with the Russian Church must be stopped.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 28, 2024, 10:19
This is all you need to know about Scholz (colleague of KGB agent Merkel). All in one picture.
 ;D ;D ;D
The KGB agent and his useful idiot.
Is not a fact.
Yes, any contact with Russian Na.zis is a crime, and I do not justify Trump. But if you look at these two photos from a psychological point of view, Scholz looks like a person who obeys putin, and Trump looks the opposite. Trump stands above putin and pats him on the shoulder from top to bottom. Putin looks like a man who is afraid of Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 28, 2024, 11:15
This is all you need to know about Scholz (colleague of KGB agent Merkel). All in one picture.
 ;D ;D ;D
The KGB agent and his useful idiot.
Is not a fact.
Yes, any contact with Russian Na.zis is a crime, and I do not justify Trump. But if you look at these two photos from a psychological point of view, Scholz looks like a person who obeys putin, and Trump looks the opposite. Trump stands above putin and pats him on the shoulder from top to bottom. Putin looks like a man who is afraid of Trump.

Right, right... see how his previous victory was celebrated in Moscow... "we will have great relations with putin and russia," the useful idiot said...

https://youtu.be/455vMrEm958
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 28, 2024, 11:23
… how is Ukraine dealing with own Naz…m …?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 28, 2024, 12:03
This is all you need to know about Scholz (colleague of KGB agent Merkel). All in one picture.
 ;D ;D ;D
The KGB agent and his useful idiot.
Is not a fact.
Yes, any contact with Russian Na.zis is a crime, and I do not justify Trump. But if you look at these two photos from a psychological point of view, Scholz looks like a person who obeys putin, and Trump looks the opposite. Trump stands above putin and pats him on the shoulder from top to bottom. Putin looks like a man who is afraid of Trump.

Visual language and Psychology is obviously not your thing either.

Let me help you a little:

Picture with Scholz: compulsory visit, distance, impersonal atmosphere

Picture with Trump: friendship, old buddies
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 28, 2024, 12:28
This is all you need to know about Scholz (colleague of KGB agent Merkel). All in one picture.
 ;D ;D ;D
The KGB agent and his useful idiot.
Is not a fact.
Yes, any contact with Russian Na.zis is a crime, and I do not justify Trump. But if you look at these two photos from a psychological point of view, Scholz looks like a person who obeys putin, and Trump looks the opposite. Trump stands above putin and pats him on the shoulder from top to bottom. Putin looks like a man who is afraid of Trump.
Visual language and Psychology is obviously not your thing either.
Let me help you a little:
Picture with Scholz: compulsory visit, distance, impersonal atmosphere

Picture with Trump: friendship, old buddies
In Scholz I see an obedient subordinate of putin. Scholz sits and listens to the orders that putin gives him to carry out.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 28, 2024, 12:29
Right, right... see how his previous victory was celebrated in Moscow... "we will have great relations with putin and russia," the useful idiot said...
https://youtu.be/455vMrEm958
Yes he said. And after that, Trump began to pursue an effective anti-Russian policy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 28, 2024, 12:40
Right, right... see how his previous victory was celebrated in Moscow... "we will have great relations with putin and russia," the useful idiot said...
https://youtu.be/455vMrEm958
Yes he said. And after that, Trump began to pursue an effective anti-Russian policy.

Sure...that's why his maga cult is helping russia today, by blocking the aid Ukraine desperately needs.

But you do you... and call this policy anti-russian.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 28, 2024, 13:49
This is all you need to know about Scholz (colleague of KGB agent Merkel). All in one picture.
 ;D ;D ;D
The KGB agent and his useful idiot.
Is not a fact.
Yes, any contact with Russian Na.zis is a crime, and I do not justify Trump. But if you look at these two photos from a psychological point of view, Scholz looks like a person who obeys putin, and Trump looks the opposite. Trump stands above putin and pats him on the shoulder from top to bottom. Putin looks like a man who is afraid of Trump.
Visual language and Psychology is obviously not your thing either.
Let me help you a little:
Picture with Scholz: compulsory visit, distance, impersonal atmosphere

Picture with Trump: friendship, old buddies
In Scholz I see an obedient subordinate of putin. Scholz sits and listens to the orders that putin gives him to carry out.

Of course you see it that way.
But that has nothing to do with your psychological abilities, but with your psychological deficits.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 05:00
Russia is a terrorist country! Russians are terrorists!

Why don’t the cowardly EU and cowardly US democrats still recognize this? There is only one answer: US Democrats and EU countries are friends of Russian terrorists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 05:09
Right, right... see how his previous victory was celebrated in Moscow... "we will have great relations with putin and russia," the useful idiot said...
https://youtu.be/455vMrEm958
Yes he said. And after that, Trump began to pursue an effective anti-Russian policy.

Sure...that's why his maga cult is helping russia today, by blocking the aid Ukraine desperately needs.

But you do you... and call this policy anti-russian.
We have already discussed this in this topic, I wrote the answers. I understand that as a troll you are paid money to repeat the same propaganda, which is why you ask the same question 100 times. You don't read the answers, you are only paid to spread propaganda.
Of course, I see no point in duplicating my answers in this thread. Therefore, I leave your post unanswered.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2024, 06:42
 Lol, projection much?
A thief believes everybody steals.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2024, 07:11
...
The challenge for Mr. Johnson is that any combination of aid measures he puts to a vote will likely infuriate the growing isolationist wing of his party, which considers the issue toxic. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene, Republican of Georgia, who has repeatedly said she would call a snap vote to unseat the speaker if he allowed a vote for Ukraine aid before imposing restrictive immigration measures, filed a resolution on Friday calling for his removal, saying she wanted to send him “a warning.”
Even if Ms. Greene follows through on the threat, Mr. Johnson could still hold onto his job. Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York, the minority leader, has said he believed “a reasonable number” of Democrats would vote to save the speaker were he to face a Republican mutiny for acting on the Senate-passed aid package,

...

Mr. Johnson has faced mounting international pressure to allow a vote on aid to Ukraine, fielding almost weekly visits and calls from NATO allies and pro-Ukraine activists both at his offices in Washington and Louisiana. When Prime Minister Donald Tusk of Poland visited Washington earlier this month, he had a sharp public message for the speaker.

“This is not some political skirmish that only matters here in America,” Mr. Tusk told reporters. “The absence of this positive decision of Mr. Johnson will really cost thousands of lives there — children, women. He must be aware of his personal responsibility.”

...

Meeting privately with Mr. Johnson in his office in the Capitol, President Andrzej Duda of Poland appealed to the Louisiana Republican’s respect for President Ronald Reagan, whose portrait hung beside the speaker during the meeting. Mr. Duda quoted Mr. Reagan extensively and praised his willingness to call out good versus evil during the Cold War
...

“It’s been over a month since Speaker Johnson said he would take care of this. And a vote for Ukraine still has not been allowed on the floor.”


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/us/politics/speaker-mike-johnson-ukraine.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/us/politics/speaker-mike-johnson-ukraine.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 07:34
 8)

(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:660/1*W_xB80S8qQwy2SYXQ-waWg.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 07:41
“This is not some political skirmish that only matters here in America,” Mr. Tusk told reporters. “The absence of this positive decision of Mr. Johnson will really cost thousands of lives there — children, women. He must be aware of his personal responsibility.”

...

Meeting privately with Mr. Johnson in his office in the Capitol, President Andrzej Duda of Poland appealed to the Louisiana Republican’s respect for President Ronald Reagan, whose portrait hung beside the speaker during the meeting. Mr. Duda quoted Mr. Reagan extensively and praised his willingness to call out good versus evil during the Cold War
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/us/politics/speaker-mike-johnson-ukraine.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/us/politics/speaker-mike-johnson-ukraine.html)
1. nytimes is completely controlled by US Democrats and often publishes commissioned articles from Russian Na.zis.
2. NYtimes mainly publishes propaganda from US Democrats.
3. Poland itself needs to stop blocking aid to Ukraine and Ukrainian exports. Poland has an interesting policy, the Poles do everything the Russians tell them, but at the same time they make claims to the USA. This is understandable, the Poles are trying to help US democrats, because US democrats are friends of the Russians.
4. The EU is able to fully provide Ukraine with any weapons. But the EU does not do this, because the EU is a friend of russia and follows the orders of US democrats.
5. No matter what the media controlled by the Democrats write, there are no longer any serious problems with shells in Ukraine.

 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 29, 2024, 08:51
… this is what I was talking about few days ago… late teens… :o
https://t.me/rustroyka1945/16412
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 09:16
… this is what I was talking about few days ago… late teens… :o
https://t.me/rustroyka1945/16412
::)
These are military school cadets. They are taught to kill Russian orcs. This is a teaching.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2024, 09:30
“This is not some political skirmish that only matters here in America,” Mr. Tusk told reporters. “The absence of this positive decision of Mr. Johnson will really cost thousands of lives there — children, women. He must be aware of his personal responsibility.”

...

Meeting privately with Mr. Johnson in his office in the Capitol, President Andrzej Duda of Poland appealed to the Louisiana Republican’s respect for President Ronald Reagan, whose portrait hung beside the speaker during the meeting. Mr. Duda quoted Mr. Reagan extensively and praised his willingness to call out good versus evil during the Cold War
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/us/politics/speaker-mike-johnson-ukraine.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/25/us/politics/speaker-mike-johnson-ukraine.html)
1. nytimes is completely controlled by US Democrats and often publishes commissioned articles from Russian Na.zis.
2. NYtimes mainly publishes propaganda from US Democrats.
3. Poland itself needs to stop blocking aid to Ukraine and Ukrainian exports. Poland has an interesting policy, the Poles do everything the Russians tell them, but at the same time they make claims to the USA. This is understandable, the Poles are trying to help US democrats, because US democrats are friends of the Russians.
4. The EU is able to fully provide Ukraine with any weapons. But the EU does not do this, because the EU is a friend of russia and follows the orders of US democrats.
5. No matter what the media controlled by the Democrats write, there are no longer any serious problems with shells in Ukraine.

 >:( >:( >:(
As I said, you do you.

The fact remains that dozens of billions in weapons and military aid, desperately needed by Ukraine, are blocked in the US Congress by your dear Johnson, who is afraid of being deposed by trump's maga.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 09:49
The fact remains that dozens of billions in weapons and military aid, desperately needed by Ukraine, are blocked in the US Congress by your dear Johnson, who is afraid of being deposed by trump's maga.
It's a lie. Military aid there is only 5-6 billion dollars. All other assistance is non-military. And even in these 5-6 billion there are no aviation, no missiles and no tanks.

Democrats - Fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 29, 2024, 09:54
Kyiv says new Russian offensive could come in May or June
https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-war-latest-kyiv-expects-new-russian-offensive-in-may-or-june/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 29, 2024, 09:57
The fact remains that dozens of billions in weapons and military aid, desperately needed by Ukraine, are blocked in the US Congress by your dear Johnson, who is afraid of being deposed by trump's maga.
It's a lie. Military aid there is only 5-6 billion dollars. All other assistance is non-military. And even in these 5-6 billion there are no aviation, no missiles and no tanks.

Democrats - Fuck you!

… Ukraine can’t win… simply, mathematics are not in your favor… Billions of any currency from the west are not enough…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 29, 2024, 10:01
… this is what I was talking about few days ago… late teens… :o
https://t.me/rustroyka1945/16412
::)
These are military school cadets. They are taught to kill Russian orcs. This is a teaching.
 ;D ;D ;D
Ukraine may have no choice but to lower its fighting age

https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-ukraine-may-have-no-choice-but-to-lower-its-fighting-age/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 10:08
Kyiv says new Russian offensive could come in May or June
https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-war-latest-kyiv-expects-new-russian-offensive-in-may-or-june/
Russian orcs have been offensive for 10 years.

… Ukraine can’t win… simply, mathematics are not in your favor… Billions of any currency from the west are not enough…
The same can be said about the EU countries and Europarasites. The USA is far away, overseas. And when the Democrats are in power, any battles will be lost to NATO.

Ukraine may have no choice but to lower its fighting age
https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-ukraine-may-have-no-choice-but-to-lower-its-fighting-age/
25 or 27 years old, what a difference. The main thing is that the soldier is trained to kill Russian orcs.  8)

trucic,
Alarmists are shot according to laws of war. I do not recommend that you appear in Ukraine with your statements.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2024, 11:44
8)

(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:660/1*W_xB80S8qQwy2SYXQ-waWg.png)

The sad difference between what lives in your brain, and reality:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2024, 11:59
The fact remains that dozens of billions in weapons and military aid, desperately needed by Ukraine, are blocked in the US Congress by your dear Johnson, who is afraid of being deposed by trump's maga.
It's a lie. Military aid there is only 5-6 billion dollars. All other assistance is non-military. And even in these 5-6 billion there are no aviation, no missiles and no tanks.

Democrats - Fuck you!

About $60 billion in the bill would go to supporting Ukraine as it defends itself from the Russian invasion that began nearly two years ago. There's nearly $14 billion to allow Ukraine to rearm itself through the purchase of weapons and munitions and another nearly $15 billion for support services such as military training and intelligence sharing

Only an involuntary russian asset would claim that Ukraine doesn't need all this support!

And we know what involuntary russian assets are:
Useful Idiots
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 12:18
There's nearly $14 billion to allow Ukraine to rearm itself through the purchase of weapons and munitions
Military experts call the amount of 5-6 billion direct military assistance. It is not known where you got the number 14 from. You need to look at the official document where all this is described.
In any case, these are not weapons that can change the situation at the front in favor of Ukraine in terms of liberating Russian-occupied territories.
I don’t write anywhere that Ukraine doesn’t need anything, it’s clear that Ukraine needs to take everything they give from these democrats (friends of the Russians). But this does not mean that Ukraine will support cowardly democrats in elections.

Zero Talent - Useful Idiot
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 29, 2024, 12:19
Kyiv says new Russian offensive could come in May or June
https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-war-latest-kyiv-expects-new-russian-offensive-in-may-or-june/
Russian orcs have been offensive for 10 years.

… Ukraine can’t win… simply, mathematics are not in your favor… Billions of any currency from the west are not enough…
The same can be said about the EU countries and Europarasites. The USA is far away, overseas. And when the Democrats are in power, any battles will be lost to NATO.

Ukraine may have no choice but to lower its fighting age
https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-ukraine-may-have-no-choice-but-to-lower-its-fighting-age/
25 or 27 years old, what a difference. The main thing is that the soldier is trained to kill Russian orcs.  8)

trucic,
Alarmists are shot according to laws of war. I do not recommend that you appear in Ukraine with your statements.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
… are you talking of Azov bataillon laws or democratic standards in Ukraine…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2024, 13:04
There's nearly $14 billion to allow Ukraine to rearm itself through the purchase of weapons and munitions
Military experts call the amount of 5-6 billion direct military assistance. It is not known where you got the number 14 from. You need to look at the official document where all this is described.
In any case, these are not weapons that can change the situation at the front in favor of Ukraine in terms of liberating Russian-occupied territories.
I don’t write anywhere that Ukraine doesn’t need anything, it’s clear that Ukraine needs to take everything they give from these democrats (friends of the Russians). But this does not mean that Ukraine will support cowardly democrats in elections.



Of the $60 billion earmarked for Ukraine, $13.7 billion are allotted to the Ukraine Security Initiative, allowing the US Defense Secretary to use US taxpayer money to buy military materials and goods, almost without exception from US weapons manufacturers, and transfer them to Kyiv. Another $13.4 billion is set aside for “replacement through new procurement or repair of existing, unserviceable equipment,” such as US-made tanks, armored personnel carriers, missile launchers and artillery operated by Ukrainian soldiers, and damaged or worn out in combat.

A relatively modest $1.6 billion of US taxpayer largesse - a giant sum by Ukrainian standards - is transferred directly to the Ukrainian military. From the Kyiv perspective probably the single most critically-needed category is $5.6 billion for more ammunition.

The Ukrainian government would receive $7.89 billion for budget support, but none of that may go to pensions, and $50 million must be for food security, the draft bill says. A maximum $21 billion may be used to help Ukraine with loans and fiscal planning.


Only an involuntary russian asset would claim that Ukraine doesn't need all this support (blocked for over a month by trump's maga, and cheered by useful idiots), out of which almost $30 billion are for weapons.

.. and we all know what are "involuntary russian assests":

Useful Idiots
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 16:58
Ukraine, liquidation of a Russian tank.
Epic video.  ;D ;D ;D

https://t.me/pidrozdilshadowoficial/429
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 29, 2024, 17:03
From the Kyiv perspective probably the single most critically-needed category is $5.6 billion for more ammunition.
Well, this is closer to the truth. Everything else is just perspective.
Now the EU has connected well, weapons are coming to Ukraine.
The Republicans are doing everything right, the Democrats are evil and friends of the Russians. I have already written in this thread about why the Republicans are pursuing such a policy. People read me, unlike you.
 ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 29, 2024, 18:35
Can Zelenskyy win over Trump?
https://www.politico.eu/article/can-ukraine-zelenskyy-win-over-us-trump-war-russia/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/can-ukraine-zelenskyy-win-over-us-trump-war-russia/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 29, 2024, 18:37
French far-right leader Bardella: ‘My heart leans toward Trump’ in US presidential race
https://www.politico.eu/article/french-far-right-jordan-bardella-national-rally-leader-heart-leans-trump-us-elections/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/french-far-right-jordan-bardella-national-rally-leader-heart-leans-trump-us-elections/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 29, 2024, 19:18
From the Kyiv perspective probably the single most critically-needed category is $5.6 billion for more ammunition.
Well, this is closer to the truth. Everything else is just perspective.
Now the EU has connected well, weapons are coming to Ukraine.
The Republicans are doing everything right, the Democrats are evil and friends of the Russians. I have already written in this thread about why the Republicans are pursuing such a policy. People read me, unlike you.
 ;)

It's not just closer to the truth, it is the truth.

Your world is upside down. maga is blocking all $60 billions, including the amount that you think is closer to your truth. However, you just said (like a true russian asset) that Ukraine doesn't need ammunition anymore, so it's okay for maga to block it.

So many conflicting ideas are spinning in that illogical head of yours...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 29, 2024, 23:39
Ukraine needs to open up about hard truths from battlefield, US diplomat says

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-needs-to-be-more-open-about-sharing-battlefield-truths-says-us-diplomat-james-rubin/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-needs-to-be-more-open-about-sharing-battlefield-truths-says-us-diplomat-james-rubin/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 30, 2024, 04:26
From the Kyiv perspective probably the single most critically-needed category is $5.6 billion for more ammunition.
Well, this is closer to the truth. Everything else is just perspective.
Now the EU has connected well, weapons are coming to Ukraine.
The Republicans are doing everything right, the Democrats are evil and friends of the Russians. I have already written in this thread about why the Republicans are pursuing such a policy. People read me, unlike you.
 ;)

It's not just closer to the truth, it is the truth.

Your world is upside down. maga is blocking all $60 billions, including the amount that you think is closer to your truth. However, you just said (like a true russian asset) that Ukraine doesn't need ammunition anymore, so it's okay for maga to block it.

So many conflicting ideas are spinning in that illogical head of yours...
Zero Talent, you are a troll who comes up with propaganda on the fly. I told you that you need to re-read my posts three times over the last 1-2 months. In my posts, I have written many times about why the Republican policy is correct.
I’m not a parrot to repeat for you every week what I’ve already said.
This topic is read by 4-8 thousand people a week, and only Zero Talent is engaged in trolling and propaganda in favor of the Democrats.  >:(
In any case, you can remain unconvinced. Although I'm sure you don't have your own opinion (trolls can't have their own opinion). You are polluting the topic and flooding!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 30, 2024, 04:58
… are you talking of Azov bataillon laws or democratic standards in Ukraine…?!
Do you know any armies that have democracy?  :o :o :o
 ;D ;D ;D

ps. Azov is an army regiment.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 30, 2024, 05:21
From the Kyiv perspective probably the single most critically-needed category is $5.6 billion for more ammunition.
Well, this is closer to the truth. Everything else is just perspective.
Now the EU has connected well, weapons are coming to Ukraine.
The Republicans are doing everything right, the Democrats are evil and friends of the Russians. I have already written in this thread about why the Republicans are pursuing such a policy. People read me, unlike you.
 ;)

It's not just closer to the truth, it is the truth.

Your world is upside down. maga is blocking all $60 billions, including the amount that you think is closer to your truth. However, you just said (like a true russian asset) that Ukraine doesn't need ammunition anymore, so it's okay for maga to block it.

So many conflicting ideas are spinning in that illogical head of yours...
Zero Talent, you are a troll who comes up with propaganda on the fly. I told you that you need to re-read my posts three times over the last 1-2 months. In my posts, I have written many times about why the Republican policy is correct.
I’m not a parrot to repeat for you every week what I’ve already said.
This topic is read by 4-8 thousand people a week, and only Zero Talent is engaged in trolling and propaganda in favor of the Democrats.  >:(
In any case, you can remain unconvinced. Although I'm sure you don't have your own opinion (trolls can't have their own opinion). You are polluting the topic and flooding!

The fact remains, and any intelligent person would easily see it: trump's maga isolationists are blocking $60 billion worth of aid destined to help Ukraine defend itself.

Only a russian asset would welcome this move and cheer for the maga party.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 30, 2024, 08:48
From the Kyiv perspective probably the single most critically-needed category is $5.6 billion for more ammunition.
Well, this is closer to the truth. Everything else is just perspective.
Now the EU has connected well, weapons are coming to Ukraine.
The Republicans are doing everything right, the Democrats are evil and friends of the Russians. I have already written in this thread about why the Republicans are pursuing such a policy. People read me, unlike you.
 ;)

It's not just closer to the truth, it is the truth.

Your world is upside down. maga is blocking all $60 billions, including the amount that you think is closer to your truth. However, you just said (like a true russian asset) that Ukraine doesn't need ammunition anymore, so it's okay for maga to block it.

So many conflicting ideas are spinning in that illogical head of yours...
Zero Talent, you are a troll who comes up with propaganda on the fly. I told you that you need to re-read my posts three times over the last 1-2 months. In my posts, I have written many times about why the Republican policy is correct.
I’m not a parrot to repeat for you every week what I’ve already said.
This topic is read by 4-8 thousand people a week, and only Zero Talent is engaged in trolling and propaganda in favor of the Democrats.  >:(
In any case, you can remain unconvinced. Although I'm sure you don't have your own opinion (trolls can't have their own opinion). You are polluting the topic and flooding!

The fact remains, and any intelligent person would easily see it: trump's maga isolationists are blocking $60 billion worth of aid destined to help Ukraine defend itself.

Only a russian asset would welcome this move and cheer for the maga party.
Zero Talent, you are relaying Democratic propaganda!
I have already given a link to the Ukrainian radio in this thread. They said that Biden initially decided to do this to force the Republicans to block these 60 billion dollars. Biden needs this to accuse the Republicans and increase his rating.
You can repeat your propaganda as much as you want, but I am not the kind of person who listens to propaganda.
 ;D ;D ;D

I don’t think that speculation on the topic of assistance to Ukraine will help Biden win the election. The results of Biden and the Democrats' foreign policy are disastrous on all fronts.
Fuck the Democrats! Fuck Biden!

I like to see how the Europarasites began to do something, began to move. This is a good result of the Republicans' actions. The longer there is no help from the US, the more help there will be from the EU, which is correct and strategically promising.  ;D ;D ;D

As for the Republicans, they will show themselves when they come to power. The world only needs a Republican Party led by the USA!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on March 30, 2024, 09:20
Here you can read how intelligent Ukrainians assess the situation. Even if there are people here who simply don't want to get it.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ohne-us-militaerhilfe-muessen-wir-uns-schritt-fuer-schritt-zurueckziehen-a-4f70c49d-1521-4f2b-a018-d03cecda3f88 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ohne-us-militaerhilfe-muessen-wir-uns-schritt-fuer-schritt-zurueckziehen-a-4f70c49d-1521-4f2b-a018-d03cecda3f88)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 30, 2024, 10:40
Here you can read how intelligent Ukrainians assess the situation. Even if there are people here who simply don't want to get it.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ohne-us-militaerhilfe-muessen-wir-uns-schritt-fuer-schritt-zurueckziehen-a-4f70c49d-1521-4f2b-a018-d03cecda3f88 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ohne-us-militaerhilfe-muessen-wir-uns-schritt-fuer-schritt-zurueckziehen-a-4f70c49d-1521-4f2b-a018-d03cecda3f88)
Who are these intelligent Ukrainians? I didn't see this on the link.

1. The EU has everything Ukraine needs.
2. Zelensky is now working with the democrats, so he is forced to keep his rhetoric down. In any case, Zelensky’s main task is to collect as many weapons as possible for Ukraine.
3. The EU is now involved in the war, shells are already arriving in normal quantities. Next we need to wait for the Republicans so that Ukraine has exactly the weapons with which Ukraine can attack and even eliminate Russians on Russian territory.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 30, 2024, 11:26
… Bram Stoker visions of democracy are ahead of time… nobody in the world can and will ever understand his theories of everything…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 30, 2024, 12:28
The world only needs a Republican Party led by the USA!

Only a russian asset would want a world in which the anti-Ukraine maga isolationists control the US foreign policy.

Well done, tovarisch! You earned your 1000 rubles:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 30, 2024, 12:43
anti-Ukraine maga isolationists
??? ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 30, 2024, 14:18
Ukraine, Avdiivka. Soldiers of the Azov regiment eliminate Russian orcs. The video has English subtitles.

https://youtu.be/ul0LYi4FZ4s (https://youtu.be/ul0LYi4FZ4s)

 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 00:33
Zelenskyy fires senior aide in continuing reshuffle

https://www.politico.eu/article/zelenskyy-fires-senior-aide-sacks-fires-shefir-ukraine-war-reshuffle/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/zelenskyy-fires-senior-aide-sacks-fires-shefir-ukraine-war-reshuffle/)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 00:43
Musk about war in Ukraine…

It was a tragic waste of life for Ukraine to attack a larger army that had defense in depth…

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1774143429720596865
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 31, 2024, 03:16
Musk about war in Ukraine…

It was a tragic waste of life for Ukraine to attack a larger army that had defense in depth…

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1774143429720596865
1. He is not a military man.
2. The US Democrats did not supply and did not allow others to supply aircraft, missiles and tanks to Ukraine in the required quantities. Of course the result will be bad.
3. The Ukrainian Armed Forces were able to advance only with the number of shells that the Democrats supplied. Moreover, the Democrats supplied these shells after the Russians had created fortified areas. Military experts talk about agreements between Democrats and Russians on the occupation of Ukraine.
4. Any negotiations with Russian Na.zis = signing of capitulation by Ukraine. All agreements with the Russians are worth nothing. Now the Russians need a pause to restore the number of weapons and continue their occupation of Ukraine. Therefore, Ukraine will not negotiate with Russian terrorists.

As always, there is only one conclusion. US Democrats are bas.tards, motherfucker, fuckfaces and friends of the Russians. Democrats - Fuck you!

Biden's place in the electric chair. The place of democrats is in prisons.


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 04:36
… he must be a KGB narrow sighted, without visions and credibility…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 31, 2024, 04:50
 8)
Le ministre des Armées Sébastien Lecornu a annoncé samedi que Paris allait fournir des missiles et des «centanes» de blindés à l'Ukraine.

https://www-leparisien-fr.translate.goog/international/guerre-en-ukraine-la-france-va-livrer-des-centaines-de-blindes-anciens-et-des-missiles-aster-a-kiev-31-03-2024-AUH36UH47NHXPGRLUYNJKNILZQ.php?_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=uk&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp (https://www-leparisien-fr.translate.goog/international/guerre-en-ukraine-la-france-va-livrer-des-centaines-de-blindes-anciens-et-des-missiles-aster-a-kiev-31-03-2024-AUH36UH47NHXPGRLUYNJKNILZQ.php?_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=uk&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

(https://www.leparisien.fr/resizer/wxZZgqPqVKyNrF_hd2wGtN4V68E=/932x582/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/leparisien/LTG2KWTZKVDANDNCWZ2ZZDKRGE.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 06:19
… so those are not EU parasites..?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 31, 2024, 06:37
… so those are not EU parasites..?!
Thanks to the Republicans, the parasites began to stir, remembered about Ukraine, about the murders, Russian terrorism and began to do something. The closer Trump gets to power, the faster the parasites will turn into non-parasites.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 07:51
… so only KGB left, to be solved by MAGA… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on March 31, 2024, 08:11
… so only KGB left, to be solved by MAGA… :)
But KGB was officially dissolved on 3 December 1991. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 08:42
… not in Bram Stalkers head… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 31, 2024, 09:28
… so only KGB left, to be solved by MAGA… :)
US Democrats are a much greater threat to the whole world than the KGB.
There will also be a lot left many Europarasites, even when Trump comes.
Republicans will have a lot of work to do.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 31, 2024, 09:48
Defense company MBDA, which produces Taurus missiles, has called on the German government to make faster decisions on orders to the industry. They said that due to the lack of contracts they cannot yet produce these missiles.

https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/taurus-hersteller-klagt-ueber-langsame-vergabe-von-ruestungsauftraegen-a-fa34580a-6f2e-41cf-8049-b1531daf8d41 (https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/taurus-hersteller-klagt-ueber-langsame-vergabe-von-ruestungsauftraegen-a-fa34580a-6f2e-41cf-8049-b1531daf8d41)

Germans....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 10:16
… they just need to do their job and make profits - by forcing goverments to use and ask for more killing machines… missiles…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on March 31, 2024, 12:56
… so only KGB left, to be solved by MAGA… :)
But KGB was officially dissolved on 3 December 1991. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB

I agree with Stocker on this one. The KGB, like most secret service agencies across Eastern Europe, was only rebranded after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
The infamous romanian Securitate became Romanian Intelligence Service, the bulgarian State Security became State Intelligence Agency, etc

Rest assured that under the new russian Federal Security Service, the KGB spies remained in service, as did their modus operandi.

Once a KGB agent, always a KGB agent. putin knows best.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 13:02
… at least someone does have something in common with our famous conspiracy theorist … :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 31, 2024, 13:40
… so only KGB left, to be solved by MAGA… :)
But KGB was officially dissolved on 3 December 1991. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGB

I agree with Stocker on this one. The KGB, like most secret service agencies across Eastern Europe, was only rebranded after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
The infamous romanian Securitate became Romanian Intelligence Service, the bulgarian State Security became State Intelligence Agency, etc

Rest assured that under the new russian Federal Security Service, the KGB spies remained in service, as did their modus operandi.

Once a KGB agent, always a KGB agent. putin knows best.
+100
The Russian Na.zis simply changed the sign. The goals and methods remain the same.
Why am I writing the KGB, because this is an international forum and everyone remembers, knows or has read about the KGB. This makes it easier to convey information to people. I think that there are very few people in other countries who are interested in modern Na.zi names of organizations in russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on March 31, 2024, 13:44
… they just need to do their job and make profits - by forcing goverments to use and ask for more killing machines… missiles…
Not for killing, but for eliminating Russian orcs.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on March 31, 2024, 14:06
… then it must be OK and we all hope you will post those videos…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on March 31, 2024, 17:58
....  bas.tards, motherfucker, fuckfaces and friends of the Russians.


Congratulations, Self-Reflection is a good start.
Now we just need to learn to leave the gutter language behind and express ourselves a little more carefully.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 01, 2024, 03:00
....  bas.tards, motherfucker, fuckfaces and friends of the Russians.


Congratulations, Self-Reflection is a good start.
Now we just need to learn to leave the gutter language behind and express ourselves a little more carefully.
To put it culturally, I can only write two points regarding US Democrats:
1. Prison
2. Electric chair.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 01, 2024, 03:17
3. KGB gulag…?! :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 01, 2024, 03:34
3. KGB gulag…?! :)
I am a supporter of democracy and humane methods. I am against violence, torture and Na.zism. Therefore, only the electric chair or prison.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 01, 2024, 03:38
… oh yes, sorry… I forgot that…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 01, 2024, 06:09
Ukraine, Tonenke. The Ukrainian Armed Forces liquidated 12 Russians tanks and 8 infantry fighting vehicles. Video.

https://t.me/ShrikeNews/13334

 8) 8) 8)

"Ukraine's demonstrated ability to skillfully defend against a large-scale Russian assault in a particularly critical part of the front despite Ukraine's challenges suggests that Ukrainian forces can achieve significant battlefield effects if they are properly equipped"
 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 01, 2024, 06:17
The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine.   

RUSSIA IS A TERRORIST STATE

On March 31, the Russian Foreign Ministry in its statement accused Ukraine of organizing terrorist acts, in particular, the ISIS attack in Krasnogorsk.

▪ Russian accusations against Ukraine are groundless, false, and blasphemous. Publishing this statement on the second anniversary of the massacres committed by the Russian army in Bucha is especially cynical.

▪ It is Russia that violates the International Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of Terrorism. These are not just statements, but the conclusion of the International Court of Justice of January 31, 2024.

▪ Russia has been fighting Ukraine with terrorist methods since 2014, in particular, with the help of the “DPR” and “LPR” terrorist groups created by it.

▪ The so-called Wagner group, which is financed from the Russian budget, is recognized as a terrorist organization in the UK.

▪ Russia has been officially recognized as a terrorist state or a state sponsor of terrorism in Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, Poland, and Slovakia.

▪ Similar decisions have also been taken by international organizations: the PACE, the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, the European Parliament, and the OSCE.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3847066-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-russia-is-a-terrorist-state-marking-two-years-since-victory-near-kyiv-us-assistance.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3847066-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-russia-is-a-terrorist-state-marking-two-years-since-victory-near-kyiv-us-assistance.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 01, 2024, 06:22
The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine.

THE THREAT OF A NEW RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE

In an interview with CBS News, President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that Russia may be preparing for a new offensive in late May or June.


- The enemy's intentions are closely monitored and its capabilities analyzed. Russia will not be able to hide its plans.
- The situation in the east has stabilized. It's better than it was 2–3 months ago.
- Russia currently has a significant advantage in the number of weapons, ammunition, and personnel. This is why there is a threat of new attempts to break through the Ukrainian front.
- Ukraine informs its partners about the degree of the threat and current needs for weapons, military equipment, and ammunition. The assistance of allies, and especially the United States, is critical to deterring the Russians.
- Putin does not plan to stop at conquering Ukraine. Russian aggression could spread to other countries, including NATO members. To prevent this, Russia needs to be stopped here in Ukraine.

THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH DECLARES A “SACRED WAR”

On March 27, the congress of the World Russian People's Council (WRPC) approved the “order” titled “Present and Future of the Russian World.”

- The WRPC is a pocket organization of the Moscow Patriarchate. Its position is the de facto position of the ROC.
- The Russian Orthodox Church in the Russian Federation is related to the state. The Moscow Patriarchate serves the ideological needs of the Putin regime without regard to Christian morality and church canons.
- In the “order” of the WRPC, Russian aggression against Ukraine is declared “a sacred war in which Russia and its people,” “defending the united spiritual space of Holy Russia,” are carrying out the mission of “the forces protecting the world from the onslaught of globalism and satanism of the West.” This picture of the world is far from reality and indicates the complete inadequacy of the authors of the text and members of the WRPC.
- The “order” denies the existence of the Ukrainian people and denies them the right to statehood, justifies the genocidal practices of Russian invaders in Ukraine.
- The ROC proclaims that the “Russian world” is much wider than the state borders of both the Russian Federation and the so-called “great historical Russia.” This is an undisguised declaration of scaling the aggression.
- The Putin regime plunges Russians into pseudo-religious fanaticism and sectarianism, similar to what happens in Iran or among jihadist terrorist organizations.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3846129-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-threat-of-new-russian-offensive-russian-orthodox-church-declares-sacred-war-postponing-elections-of-ukraines-president.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3846129-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-threat-of-new-russian-offensive-russian-orthodox-church-declares-sacred-war-postponing-elections-of-ukraines-president.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 01, 2024, 17:36
For crying out loud, stoker, stop posting these intellectual excrements about Trump and the Republicans. Stop lying. It is disgusting.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923 (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/23/trump-putin-genius-russia-ukraine-crisis (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/23/trump-putin-genius-russia-ukraine-crisis)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 04:00
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923 (https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/23/trump-putin-ukraine-invasion-00010923)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/23/trump-putin-genius-russia-ukraine-crisis (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/23/trump-putin-genius-russia-ukraine-crisis)
Let's read the source.
https://www.clayandbuck.com/president-trump-with-cb-from-mar-a-lago (https://www.clayandbuck.com/president-trump-with-cb-from-mar-a-lago)
"And you know what the response was from Biden? There was no response. They didn’t have one for that. No, it’s very sad. Very sad."

LDV81, you are a victim of democratic propaganda. All the Democrats’ propaganda is based only on snatching individual words and phrases from Trump without context. In these phrases of Trump, I see criticism of the ass.hole Biden. Of course, Trump should have chosen more tolerant words, but as a living person he has the right to show his emotions in any form. Moreover, he was not the President of the United States at that time.
There are two Trumps, one Trump says different contradictory words, and there is another Trump who is not afraid to pursue an effective policy against russia. Of course, these are not two different people, but one.
To understand processes in geopolitics, you need to understand one thing: everything that happens is the result of the policies of cowardly US democrats. The fact that the Russians launched a full-scale offensive and continued to occupy Ukraine is a consequence of the cowardly and idiotic policies of the Democrats and in particular the ass.hole Biden.
If you follow the news, Trump has already clearly said that he will help Ukraine when he becomes president.

As always, there is only one conclusion:
Democrats - fuck you!
Biden - fuck you!


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 04:05
LDV81, you must understand completely differently what you are told in US newspapers or on US or EU TV channels. Biden and the Democrats are not ordinary people like you or me, these are people in whose hands enormous power and money are concentrated. Russians compared to the USA are poor beggars. So, when you see the Russians killing someone, you should be 100% sure that this is the result of the failed policies of the Democrats and Biden in particular. This is how the world works, this is how geopolitics works.
In this topic, I have already pointed out some of the criminal actions of the Democrats, which led to the murders of Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 04:10
Russians are being beaten everywhere. Great Britain. Video.

https://twitter.com/nazar_london/status/1774785911420596637

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 02, 2024, 09:22
 :o… Bram, you are only spreading hate and… isn’t strange that only you is thinking ‘out-of-the-box’ and other opinions are propaganda or understood wrong…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 02, 2024, 09:30
Russia’s sanction-proofed economy is helping it avoid a defeat in Ukraine
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-sanction-proofed-economy-avoids-defeat-ukraine-energy-oil-hydrocarbons/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-sanction-proofed-economy-avoids-defeat-ukraine-energy-oil-hydrocarbons/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 02, 2024, 09:34
❗️People are leaving Kharkov en masse!
https://twitter.com/Wagnersfamily/status/1774911105896247434?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 09:44
Russia’s sanction-proofed economy is helping it avoid a defeat in Ukraine
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-sanction-proofed-economy-avoids-defeat-ukraine-energy-oil-hydrocarbons/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-sanction-proofed-economy-avoids-defeat-ukraine-energy-oil-hydrocarbons/)
There is only one conclusion from this article. The policies of the US Democrats are weak, criminal and friendly to putin.
We can only say one thing, Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 09:47
❗️People are leaving Kharkov en masse!
https://twitter.com/Wagnersfamily/status/1774911105896247434?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Yes it's true. And this has been true for a long time. The cowardly criminal Biden did not provide Ukraine with F16 and medium- and long-range missiles. This is the result of the criminal policies of the Democrats.
The Russians, of course, will not be able to occupy the city of Kharkov, but they can destroy it very quickly with air bombs and missiles.
Russians are terrorists. Any country that helps the Russians is an accomplice of terrorists.
All Russians are orcs, zombies and genetic slaves.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 02, 2024, 10:10
… why do you think anyone is going to send a la carte weapons your state needs…?! They will support Ukraine until they have interests, not because you need more and more and more weapons… Ukraine have paid a huge price because of that…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 13:24
The US is ceasing to be a reliable partner. The EU is already talking about this. Judging by the news, the EU plans to eliminate its dependence on US military aid. Macron wants to create an analogue of NATO in the EU. And all this regardless of the results of the US elections. Ukraine is an example of this, and this is after the United States signed the Budapest memorandum.
I see that US policy is inconsistent. US Democrats have enormous propaganda capabilities, which is why they win elections more times than Republicans.
Before Biden, Trump was president. Republicans have had good policies to contain russia and Iran. But when the Democrats came to power, all the Republican policies were destroyed by them.
Suppose Trump wins the election, during 4 years of rule the Republicans will again be able to build a system to contain Nazism. But where are the guarantees that in 4 years the US will not elect a Democrat again?
The policies of the Democrats are aimed at strengthening terrorism and Nazism in the world. If the Democrats are in power, all countries (except North America) will be occupied by China, russia and Iran.
In my opinion, there is only one way out. The Republicans should declare martial law and ban the Democratic Party. US policy must be consistent. What we have seen over the past 10 (30) years is a circus in the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 13:27
… why do you think anyone is going to send a la carte weapons your state needs…?! They will support Ukraine until they have interests, not because you need more and more and more weapons… Ukraine have paid a huge price because of that…
1. Budapest Memorandum.
2. Threat of occupation of EU countries.
3. Political precedent in the form of annexation and occupation of the territory of another country. After this, China can now occupy anyone it wants. And not only China.
4. What is happening is called World War III.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 02, 2024, 14:43
4. What is happening is called World War III.

Another one of your damned lies designed to stir up fear.
Only YOU and some sick conspiracy theorists are calling the current state third world war.

Among educated normal thinking intelligent people this is not common sense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 02, 2024, 15:23
… I really hope that world leaders will not been involved that much into… whatever it is… simply, Ukraine must count only on own resources, everything else will cost their people more in future… don’t pray for WW3, because that war could be finished in seconds…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 02, 2024, 15:42

In my opinion, there is only one way out. The Republicans should declare martial law and ban the Democratic Party.


Such statements are extremely frightening. In several respects.

- They show that you really have ZERO understanding of democracy.
- They show that you think exactly like Putin.
- They make the readers here fear that your thinking could also correspond to that in Ukraine. If that were the case, which I really hope it isn't, Ukraine would have no place in either NATO or the EU! I hope, believe and wish that the mindset of the general public in Ukraine is not the same as yours.
- If everyone thought like that, the third world war would have started long ago.

Therefore, as I have said here often enough, I am very grateful that a lot of clever, intelligent people in positions of responsibility have been able to prevent this so far!!!

What you are writing could have come exactly and verbatim from Putin. Are you aware of that?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 16:00
Ukraine would have no place in either NATO or the EU!
:o :o :o
When will Ukraine be accepted into NATO and the EU? In what century?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 16:01
4. What is happening is called World War III.

Another one of your damned lies designed to stir up fear.
Only YOU and some sick conspiracy theorists are calling the current state third world war.

Among educated normal thinking intelligent people this is not common sense.
::) ::) ::)
 ;D ;D ;D
And this person has been reading this topic for a very long time....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 16:08
- If everyone thought like that, the third world war would have started long ago.
Wake up, the war has already been going on for 10 years.
Everyone can see the results of the rule of the US Democratic Party based on the example of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 02, 2024, 16:30
- If everyone thought like that, the third world war would have started long ago.
Wake up, the war has already been going on for 10 years.
Everyone can see the results of the rule of the US Democratic Party based on the example of Ukraine.

Wrong!

We don't have a third world war.

Let me remind you that it was under a Republican US administration that George W. Bush (and Tony Blair of the UK) found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. At least that's what they said. Colin Powell bitterly regretted not having contradicted this statement.

Do you remember?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 02, 2024, 16:33
That was a very bitter lesson for me. I generally believe the West more than the East. But this lie - and there might have been many others - is etched in my memory.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 17:03
That was a very bitter lesson for me. I generally believe the West more than the East. But this lie - and there might have been many others - is etched in my memory.
What are you writing about? Which west, which east?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 17:07
- If everyone thought like that, the third world war would have started long ago.
Wake up, the war has already been going on for 10 years.
Everyone can see the results of the rule of the US Democratic Party based on the example of Ukraine.

Wrong!

We don't have a third world war.

Let me remind you that it was under a Republican US administration that George W. Bush (and Tony Blair of the UK) found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. At least that's what they said. Colin Powell bitterly regretted not having contradicted this statement.

Do you remember?
The US did everything right by starting the war in Iraq. It’s a shame that they didn’t do the same in Iran and North Korea. It is also a pity that the EU and the US supported and developed China. It’s a shame that the Russian empire was given the opportunity to develop under putin.
Saddam Hussein was a dictator and there was a dictatorship in Iraq. If it were not for the US military invasion, Iraq would now be in the axis of evil.
Therefore, it doesn’t matter what the reason was. Iraq posed a threat to democracy. Russia, China, Iran are also threats to democracy. Democracy does not equal pacifism and there has never been an equal sign. You don't understand what democracy is at all. The Democratic Party of the USA does not mean democracy, it is just the name of the party for idiots who vote based only on the name.

In that democratic party, the majority are communists. Let zero talent correct me, of course.

Wilm, are you a communist? If not, then you are not on the same path with the US Democratic Party.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 17:12
We don't have a third world war.
Tell that to your government, which is sending weapons in trains to Ukraine and imposing sanctions against the Russians. Pray to God that the Ukrainians will not allow the Russians to reach the Polish border. It is very possible that you will have to fight against the Russians and the Ukrainians mobilized into their army.

Just 5 months ago you wrote that World War 3 was underway, but now I see you have been treated with propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 02, 2024, 17:13
Ukraine is fighting not for the right to be in the EU and NATO. Ukraine is fighting to be an independent country and to be independent from russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 02, 2024, 18:37
…. But you are dependant of both EU and NATO… and of all others… and why you think tjat either one of those will accept your application while tou are in war with third party…?! You will have to finish your war and then start with long process - fulfill standards which are needed to be accepted…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 02, 2024, 20:33

In that democratic party, the majority are communists. Let zero talent correct me, of course.


Nope, far from a majority.
In fact, as someone who lived many years in both the EU and the US, I can say that a large majority of the US Democratic Party is to the right of many liberal parties in Europe, which are considered to be right-wing parties in Europe. It's no coincidence that the US Dems are also called "liberals".

But, because of the electoral system in the US, there are no socialist parties, let alone communist parties, of any significance. This is why both major parties must also accommodate the extremes of the political spectrum.

The GOP must accommodate trump and his extreme right maga isolationists (unfortunately, this extreme faction seized control over the GOP pushing it further to the right), while the Democratic Party must accommodate a small Marxist squad of four representatives led by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Bernie Sanders, another Marxist, is an independent.

For your education, I drew an approximation of the political spectrum, valid for both sides of the Atlantic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 02, 2024, 23:16
Ukraine at great risk of its front lines collapsing

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 03, 2024, 01:31
We don't have a third world war.

Just 5 months ago you wrote that World War 3 was underway, but now I see you have been treated with propaganda.


On the way to war is different from being at war.

At one point, the third world war is actually already taking place: In the social media. I see this as one of our greatest risks worldwide, especially due to AI.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 03:46
At one point, the third world war is actually already taking place: In the social media.
??? :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Let's test your school knowledge of history. I'll ask just one question. In what year did the Second World War begin?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 04:03

In that democratic party, the majority are communists. Let zero talent correct me, of course.


Nope, far from a majority.
In fact, as someone who lived many years in both the EU and the US, I can say that a large majority of the US Democratic Party is to the right of many liberal parties in Europe, which are considered to be right-wing parties in Europe. It's no coincidence that the US Dems are also called "liberals".

I will cite here your previous statements about US Democrats. Are you sure you're not contradicting yourself?  ;D

The fact is that a significant percentage of democrats have marxist views
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 04:14
…. But you are dependant of both EU and NATO… and of all others… and why you think tjat either one of those will accept your application while tou are in war with third party…?! You will have to finish your war and then start with long process - fulfill standards which are needed to be accepted…
What are you writing about? About what kind of dependence and what does the EU and NATO have to do with it?
I will say this, it is the EU and NATO that depend on Ukraine, because if Ukraine does not stop the Russian Na.zis, then it is unknown how many EU countries the Russians will occupy. Therefore, it is not NATO that will decide whether to take Ukraine into its membership or not, but Ukraine will think about including NATO countries in its union.  ;D ;D ;D
As for assistance from the EU and NATO, these blocs help themselves first of all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 04:25
Ukraine at great risk of its front lines collapsing

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/)
All conclusions in this article are lies. The article was written with the purpose of causing panic. The emphasis is not placed correctly. Obviously the customers of these article are Russian.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 04:58
 8) 8) 8)

Many People and Companies Have Made Millions on Trump Media’s Stock

A surge in the social media company’s market value has generated a windfall for current and former executives, on top of the bonanza for its largest shareholder, former President Trump.

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/03/27/multimedia/27trump-media-qlzj/27trump-media-qlzj-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp)
Trump Media’s shares have jumped on their first two days of trading on the Nasdaq.

Shares of former President Donald J. Trump’s social media company continued to surge on Wednesday, extending the gains on its first official trading session on the Nasdaq the day before.

After another double-digit percentage gain, the parent of Truth Social approached $9 billion in market value, a windfall for insiders awarded shares in the company.

The biggest beneficiary is Mr. Trump, the company’s largest shareholder, whose stake is worth more than $5 billion, on paper. No other shareholder comes close, according to regulatory filings, but many of Trump Media’s executives have seen their net worth swell this week, in some cases by many millions of dollars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/business/trump-media-shareholders.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/business/trump-media-shareholders.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2024, 05:31
… just imagine a month of living in Ukraine without any funds and weapons from EU and USA…?! Then half of the year… whole year… will you think that there isn’t any dependency…?! Yes you are fully independent, for sure…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2024, 05:32
Ukraine at great risk of its front lines collapsing

https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-great-risk-front-line-collapse-war-russia/)
All conclusions in this article are lies. The article was written with the purpose of causing panic. The emphasis is not placed correctly. Obviously the customers of these article are Russian.
… yes, smells like KGB…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 06:13
… just imagine a month of living in Ukraine without any funds and weapons from EU and USA…?! Then half of the year… whole year… will you think that there isn’t any dependency…?! Yes you are fully independent, for sure…
Ukraine also produces weapons. The military-industrial complex in Ukraine is quite developed.
In addition to the EU and the USA, there are also South Korea, India, Great Britain, Türkiye, and other countries. Everywhere, Ukraine can independently buy weapons too.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2024, 06:18
… so there is no need for anything from the West…?! You are constantly blaming them for F16, long range missiles, artillery shells… you can replace Starlink with what…?! Make money for debts, wages and pensions… how?! West is taking care of few million Ukrainian refugees… but, in the end you are independent…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 06:27
… so there is no need for anything from the West…?! You are constantly blaming them for F16, long range missiles, artillery shells… you can replace Starlink with what…?! Make money for debts, wages and pensions… how?! West is taking care of few million Ukrainian refugees… but, in the end you are independent…
But it’s better to imagine russia, what will these Na.zis do when the supply of weapons from North Korea, Iran and China stops to russia? And this is very real if Republicans come to power in the United States.

Yes, Ukraine is an independent country. The only question is the number of losses in the war and the result. Of course, Ukraine will not defend NATO countries on its own, so they give Ukraine help. But you are asking a specific question: can Ukraine fight without the EU and the USA? I answered you, yes it can.
But if you ask, is this advisable? There may be another answer here. And this answer is well understood in the EU.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 06:39
West is taking care of few million Ukrainian refugees…
I don’t agree, the West is stealing people from Ukraine. This is if you write the truth. Ukraine can independently provide its citizens with food and housing.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 07:13

In that democratic party, the majority are communists. Let zero talent correct me, of course.


Nope, far from a majority.
In fact, as someone who lived many years in both the EU and the US, I can say that a large majority of the US Democratic Party is to the right of many liberal parties in Europe, which are considered to be right-wing parties in Europe. It's no coincidence that the US Dems are also called "liberals".

I will cite here your previous statements about US Democrats. Are you sure you're not contradicting yourself?  ;D

The fact is that a significant percentage of democrats have marxist views
Learn your definitions.
Significant means non-negligible, noteworthy, it doesn't mean a majority.
And having marxist views doesn't make one a "communist."

See the diagram above. Not only do communists have Marxist views (all), but also the socialists (a large majority), the social democrats (a majority), and also liberals (a noteworthy amount)

The majority of US Democrats are capitalists but also tend to support "the little man." This is why they are in the middle of the political spectrum. Nuance fails you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 07:48
Significant means non-negligible, noteworthy, it doesn't mean a majority.
Ok.  ;D ;D ;D

And having marxist views doesn't make one a "communist."
Same sh.it.

The majority of US Democrats are capitalists but also tend to support "the little man."
Let me clarify that democrats are not capitalists, but idiots, cowards and friends of the Russians, as well as friends of other world terrorists.
Regarding support for Ukraine, I have written many times, this support is very small from the United States. Otherwise, the situation in Ukraine would be radically different now.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2024, 07:56
West is taking care of few million Ukrainian refugees…
I don’t agree, the West is stealing people from Ukraine. This is if you write the truth. Ukraine can independently provide its citizens with food and housing.
… yes, you just need to ask them to come back… even those people from Khatkiv are  advised to flee to Lavov region and that evil EU…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2024, 08:03
‘No choice’: Ukraine eyes Kerch bridge in Crimea for drone attack
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/ukraine-eyes-kerch-bridge-crimea-drone-attack (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/ukraine-eyes-kerch-bridge-crimea-drone-attack)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 08:37
‘No choice’: Ukraine eyes Kerch bridge in Crimea for drone attack
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/ukraine-eyes-kerch-bridge-crimea-drone-attack (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/ukraine-eyes-kerch-bridge-crimea-drone-attack)
Any Russian military infrastructure must be destroyed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 08:45
On the run from Russia: the defector to Ukraine shot dead on the Costa Blanca

Maksim Kuzminov flew a Russian miltary helicopter to Ukraine. Armed with a new identity, he moved to a Spanish resort. Then he was killed in an underground car park.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/24/on-the-run-from-russia-the-defector-to-ukraine-shot-dead-on-the-costa-blanca (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/24/on-the-run-from-russia-the-defector-to-ukraine-shot-dead-on-the-costa-blanca)
________
 :( :( :(
He was a good Russian. There are very few such people in Na.zi russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 08:53
Significant means non-negligible, noteworthy, it doesn't mean a majority.
Ok.  ;D ;D ;D

And having marxist views doesn't make one a "communist."
Same sh.it.

The majority of US Democrats are capitalists but also tend to support "the little man."
Let me clarify that democrats are not capitalists, but idiots, cowards and friends of the Russians, as well as friends of other world terrorists.
Regarding support for Ukraine, I have written many times, this support is very small from the United States. Otherwise, the situation in Ukraine would be radically different now.

I am certain than virtually all Ukrainian parties are positioned to the left of the US Democrats, when it comes to private property, the role of the government, care for "the little man", etc
Based on your "logic", they are ALL communist idiots.

But we that this is not true. There are only a few useful idiots here and there who still believe that maga and trump will save Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 09:02
Significant means non-negligible, noteworthy, it doesn't mean a majority.
Ok.  ;D ;D ;D

And having marxist views doesn't make one a "communist."
Same sh.it.

The majority of US Democrats are capitalists but also tend to support "the little man."
Let me clarify that democrats are not capitalists, but idiots, cowards and friends of the Russians, as well as friends of other world terrorists.
Regarding support for Ukraine, I have written many times, this support is very small from the United States. Otherwise, the situation in Ukraine would be radically different now.

I am certain than virtually all Ukrainian parties are positioned to the left of the US Democrats, when it comes to private property, the role of the government, care for "the little man", etc
Based on your "logic", they are ALL communist idiots.

But we that this is not true. There are only a few useful idiots here and there who still believe that maga and trump will save Ukraine.
1. There are no parties in Ukraine in the classical sense of the word. Those that exist belong to certain clans or oligarchs. These parties are definitely not left, but rather right.  ;D
In Ukraine there are no communist or socialist parties in parliament.
2. Yes, I am sure that the policies of Trump and the Republicans will be much more effective and better for Ukraine than the policies of the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 03, 2024, 09:06
‘No choice’: Ukraine eyes Kerch bridge in Crimea for drone attack
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/ukraine-eyes-kerch-bridge-crimea-drone-attack (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/ukraine-eyes-kerch-bridge-crimea-drone-attack)
Any Russian military infrastructure must be destroyed.

… so bridges are military infrastructure…?! Do you think that dams are too…?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 09:07
‘No choice’: Ukraine eyes Kerch bridge in Crimea for drone attack
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/ukraine-eyes-kerch-bridge-crimea-drone-attack (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/ukraine-eyes-kerch-bridge-crimea-drone-attack)
Any Russian military infrastructure must be destroyed.

1). … so bridges are military infrastructure…?!
2). Do you think that dams are too…?
1. Yes.
2. No.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 10:43
Significant means non-negligible, noteworthy, it doesn't mean a majority.
Ok.  ;D ;D ;D

And having marxist views doesn't make one a "communist."
Same sh.it.

The majority of US Democrats are capitalists but also tend to support "the little man."
Let me clarify that democrats are not capitalists, but idiots, cowards and friends of the Russians, as well as friends of other world terrorists.
Regarding support for Ukraine, I have written many times, this support is very small from the United States. Otherwise, the situation in Ukraine would be radically different now.

I am certain than virtually all Ukrainian parties are positioned to the left of the US Democrats, when it comes to private property, the role of the government, care for "the little man", etc
Based on your "logic", they are ALL communist idiots.

But we that this is not true. There are only a few useful idiots here and there who still believe that maga and trump will save Ukraine.
1. There are no parties in Ukraine in the classical sense of the word. Those that exist belong to certain clans or oligarchs. These parties are definitely not left, but rather right.  ;D
In Ukraine there are no communist or socialist parties in parliament.
2. Yes, I am sure that the policies of Trump and the Republicans will be much more effective and better for Ukraine than the policies of the Democrats.

There are no socialist nor communist parties in power in the US either, but this doesn't stop you from believing that there are. So that's not an argument you are consistent with. Logic fails you again.

As explained before, these Ukrainian parties may be on the right, based on European standards where virtually all parties are leaning left, when compared to the US.

No matter what, there is a small minority who are putin's useful idiots who believe that trump and maga will save Ukraine, despite all evidence showing the opposite.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 11:15
There are no socialist nor communist parties in power in the US either, but this doesn't stop you from believing that there are. So that's not an argument you are consistent with. Logic fails you again.
I never said that. Initially, in 2023, you wrote in this thread that US Democrats include Marxists and socialists, perhaps even communists. I was only referring to the information received from you.
 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 11:18
US has agreed to send more bombs and warplanes to Israel

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-signed-off-more-bombs-warplanes-israel-washington-post-reports-2024-03-29/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/us-has-signed-off-more-bombs-warplanes-israel-washington-post-reports-2024-03-29/)

___
Ass.hole Biden found a way to transfer weapons to Israel, bypassing the Republicans. But he does not find such an opportunity in relation to Ukraine. And even before the Republicans blocked his initiatives, Biden did not give aviation to Ukraine.

Biden - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 11:22
There are only a few useful idiots here and there who still believe that maga and trump will save Ukraine.
You can also call the Ukrainian media idiots. I provide a link to the Ukrainian article. You can translate it in Google translator. The article says Biden is an ass.hole.

https://zn.ua/ukr/WORLD/bajden-chi-tramp-khto-krashchij-dlja-ukrajini.html
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 11:46
There are no socialist nor communist parties in power in the US either, but this doesn't stop you from believing that there are. So that's not an argument you are consistent with. Logic fails you again.
I never said that. Initially, in 2023, you wrote in this thread that US Democrats include Marxists and socialists, perhaps even communists. I was only referring to the information received from you.
 ;D

Nope. You said that a majority of Democrats are communists. Just scroll up.

In that democratic party, the majority are communists.


What I said is that a "significant" amount of Democrats have Marxist views. Again: significant is not a majority, and having (some) "Marxist views" doesn't make a party or a person "communist" (i.e. doesn't believe in private enterprise/property).
As I said, there are many parties holding varying degrees of Marxist views, including many who label themselves as right-wing.

Fortunately, only a small minority of Ukrainians are putin's useful idiots who belive that trump and maga will save Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 12:10
There are no socialist nor communist parties in power in the US either, but this doesn't stop you from believing that there are. So that's not an argument you are consistent with. Logic fails you again.
I never said that. Initially, in 2023, you wrote in this thread that US Democrats include Marxists and socialists, perhaps even communists. I was only referring to the information received from you.
 ;D

Nope. You said that a majority of Democrats are communists. Just scroll up.

In that democratic party, the majority are communists.


What I said is that a "significant" amount of Democrats have Marxist views. Again: significant is not a majority, and having (some) "Marxist views" doesn't make a party or a person "communist" (i.e. doesn't believe in private enterprise/property).
As I said, there are many parties holding varying degrees of Marxist views, including many who label themselves as right-wing.

Fortunately, only a small minority of Ukrainians are putin's useful idiots who belive that trump and maga will save Ukraine.
1. Marxists and communists = enemies of humanity. History has proven it.
2. I didn’t express myself very clearly then. Yes, I wrote that, but I was based on your information from 2023. This should have been written right away, but I’m now writing a clarifying text.
I also wrote that you will correct me, what did you mean, you did it. I have no complaints against you.  ;D
3. How do you know how many people in Ukraine support Biden?  ??? ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 12:22
There are no socialist nor communist parties in power in the US either, but this doesn't stop you from believing that there are. So that's not an argument you are consistent with. Logic fails you again.
I never said that. Initially, in 2023, you wrote in this thread that US Democrats include Marxists and socialists, perhaps even communists. I was only referring to the information received from you.
 ;D

Nope. You said that a majority of Democrats are communists. Just scroll up.

In that democratic party, the majority are communists.


What I said is that a "significant" amount of Democrats have Marxist views. Again: significant is not a majority, and having (some) "Marxist views" doesn't make a party or a person "communist" (i.e. doesn't believe in private enterprise/property).
As I said, there are many parties holding varying degrees of Marxist views, including many who label themselves as right-wing.

Fortunately, only a small minority of Ukrainians are putin's useful idiots who belive that trump and maga will save Ukraine.
1. Marxists and communists = enemies of humanity. History has proven it.
2. I didn’t express myself very clearly then. Yes, I wrote that, but I was based on your information from 2023. This should have been written right away, but I’m now writing a clarifying text.
I also wrote that you will correct me, what did you mean, you did it. I have no complaints against you.  ;D
3. How do you know how many people in Ukraine support Biden?  ??? ::) ::) ::) ::)

Then, consider yourself corrected. You’re welcome!

For the record, I don’t support Marxist views. I support freedom (including Ukraine's freedom), civil liberties, free markets, and small governments.

I am convinced that, as opposed to a small minority of putin's useful idiots, a majority of intelligent Ukrainians can see through the propaganda and understand that a trump presidency with maga in control would equate to a disaster for Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 12:30
For the record, I don’t support Marxist views. I support freedom, civil liberties, free markets, and small governments.
I am convinced that, as opposed to a small minority of putin's useful idiots, a majority of intelligent Ukrainians can see through the propaganda and understand that a trump presidency with maga in control would equate to a disaster for Ukraine.
1. Putin is the result of the rule of Marxists and communists. He is their child.
2. There is no need to try to impose your personal opinion on all Ukrainians. They don't read you anyway  ;D. Your fantasies are very far from reality. And I have been writing for a long time that you personally definitely have some kind of personal benefit from the victory of the Democrats. Your interests do not coincide with the interests of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 12:49
For the record, I don’t support Marxist views. I support freedom, civil liberties, free markets, and small governments.
I am convinced that, as opposed to a small minority of putin's useful idiots, a majority of intelligent Ukrainians can see through the propaganda and understand that a trump presidency with maga in control would equate to a disaster for Ukraine.
1. Putin is the result of the rule of Marxists and communists. He is their child.
2. There is no need to try to impose your personal opinion on all Ukrainians. They don't read you anyway  ;D. Your fantasies are very far from reality. And I have been writing for a long time that you personally definitely have some kind of personal benefit from the victory of the Democrats. Your interests do not coincide with the interests of Ukraine.

No, when you refuse to accept logic and facts that contradict your beliefs, you resort to conspiracy theories.
You have no logical arguments against all the facts showing that trump and maga are a disaster for Ukraine, and then you can only explain the position of those who can see through it as based on "special interests."
As I've mentioned many times, I have no special interest in Democrats, and I would gladly vote for the old-school GOP.

What is sad to see is a small Ukrainian minority becoming putin's useful idiots, while believing that they represent Ukraine's interests.

P.S. Yes, putin is the child of the communist and Marxist ideology, now drifting into fascism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 12:59
P.S. Yes, putin is the child of the communist and Marxist ideology, now drifting into fascism.
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 03, 2024, 13:03
You have no logical arguments against all the facts showing that trump and maga are a disaster for Ukrain
All my posts in this thread are based on arguments. In my posts, I substantiated that democrats are the enemies of not only Ukraine but also the entire civilized world.
I also argued that Trump is the best choice for democratic countries (compared to Biden, of course).
You need to re-read all my posts in this thread.  ;D ;D ;D

Zero Talent, In this thread you are spreading propaganda from US Democrats and trolling. You do not write any arguments here, all your arguments are a copy of propaganda. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 14:22
You have no logical arguments against all the facts showing that trump and maga are a disaster for Ukrain
All my posts in this thread are based on arguments. In my posts, I substantiated that democrats are the enemies of not only Ukraine but also the entire civilized world.
I also argued that Trump is the best choice for democratic countries (compared to Biden, of course).
You need to re-read all my posts in this thread.  ;D ;D ;D

Zero Talent, In this thread you are spreading propaganda from US Democrats and trolling. You do not write any arguments here, all your arguments are a copy of propaganda.

No, all your posts are based on wishful thinking and ostrich tactics.
You refuse to see the facts as they are, and you still live in a fantasy world where trump and maga are Ukraine's friends.

I am certain that a large majority of intelligent Ukrainians see reality as it is: trump with maga in power equals Ukraine's capitulation.

Unfortunately, they also have to deal with putin's useful idiots, the same way this forum does.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 15:23
This is maga:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 03, 2024, 15:47
At one point, the third world war is actually already taking place: In the social media.
??? :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Let's test your school knowledge of history. I'll ask just one question. In what year did the Second World War begin?

The basis for the Second World War took place in Germany. And, yes, via a successively perfected propaganda apparatus. There was no social media. But there was the famous "Volksempfänger". And it only broadcast what the government wanted. Later on, films were even made about perseverance - with the message that the Germans were the best the planet had to offer. If you like, "Germany first" - does that remind you of anything?

To cut a long story short: back then, what you wish had happened in the USA happened in Germany: that one party should have the right to ban other parties from governing for many years. We know this from Russia, too!

Perhaps you should really start thinking about whether your understanding of democracy and its development is the right one. From my point of view, I say to you crystal clear: NO!!!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 03, 2024, 15:52
You think like this: You want to hit Russia with weapons - even in the figurative sense - as Russia uses them. Then what distinguishes you from a Russian leader whom you curse? Nothing. Then you are also an orc.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 03, 2024, 21:43
There are only a few useful idiots here and there who still believe that maga and trump will save Ukraine.
You can also call the Ukrainian media idiots. I provide a link to the Ukrainian article. You can translate it in Google translator. The article says Biden is an ass.hole.

https://zn.ua/ukr/WORLD/bajden-chi-tramp-khto-krashchij-dlja-ukrajini.html

You never read that article, or if you did, you didn't understand it.
Not surprising: you were caught with your pants down before when you quoted that book you never read, only to prove yourself wrong.

The author says what I always told you:

The main political opponent of Joe Biden, Donald Trump, on the contrary, is famous for his unpredictability and impulsiveness. Trump's unpredictability in international politics is a very big risk for Ukraine. It is quite possible to expect a complete cessation of military and financial support from him..

Another risk is that if Trump wins another election, the role of extreme MAGA-Republicans may increase. It is this group that is most often critical of further support for Ukraine. Since the internal opposition to Trump in the Republican Party has effectively disappeared, the political balance there may shift in the direction of the most ardent Trumpists. Even quite powerful Republican politicians, who previously openly supported Ukraine, are now forced to follow Trump's fairway. This is certainly alarming news for Ukraine.

In the current difficult circumstances, it is quite likely that Ukraine should not take any risks
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on April 03, 2024, 23:51
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 04, 2024, 02:25
NATO ministers’ doubts, fears and eye-rolls over €100B Ukraine plan
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-foreign-ministers-doubts-fears-eye-rolls-e100b-ukraine-plan/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-foreign-ministers-doubts-fears-eye-rolls-e100b-ukraine-plan/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 03:59
This is maga:
These are not arguments, this is the opinion of one politician. Mostly, even she asks the right questions.
Ukraine does not need money, Ukraine needs aviation, missiles and tanks. Therefore, it makes no difference whether that military assistance from the Democrats will be provided or not. This assistance does not change the situation on the battlefield.
And even from this woman’s posts, I understood that she wants effective policies from the White House. And she wants to allocate money only for effective policies. I completely agree with this approach.
It’s very good when people think for themselves and ask questions. Unlike the stupid democrats.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 04:03
I am certain that a large majority of intelligent Ukrainians see reality as it is: trump with maga in power equals Ukraine's capitulation.
Come to Ukraine and go straight to the front. Try telling the soldiers on the battlefield how good the US Democrats and Biden are. At best, you'll get punched in the face.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 04:06
You think like this: You want to hit Russia with weapons - even in the figurative sense - as Russia uses them. Then what distinguishes you from a Russian leader whom you curse? Nothing. Then you are also an orc.
This is the insane position of a pacifist. Your words have nothing to do with democracy. This is cowardice and pacifism. Or an ostrich with its head in the sand.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 04:07
At one point, the third world war is actually already taking place: In the social media.
??? :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Let's test your school knowledge of history. I'll ask just one question. In what year did the Second World War begin?

The basis for the Second World War took place in Germany. And, yes, via a successively perfected propaganda apparatus. There was no social media. But there was the famous "Volksempfänger". And it only broadcast what the government wanted. Later on, films were even made about perseverance - with the message that the Germans were the best the planet had to offer. If you like, "Germany first" - does that remind you of anything?

To cut a long story short: back then, what you wish had happened in the USA happened in Germany: that one party should have the right to ban other parties from governing for many years. We know this from Russia, too!

Perhaps you should really start thinking about whether your understanding of democracy and its development is the right one. From my point of view, I say to you crystal clear: NO!!!
I asked you one simple question. In what year did the Second World War begin? I did not find the answer in your essay.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 04:11
There are only a few useful idiots here and there who still believe that maga and trump will save Ukraine.
You can also call the Ukrainian media idiots. I provide a link to the Ukrainian article. You can translate it in Google translator. The article says Biden is an ass.hole.

https://zn.ua/ukr/WORLD/bajden-chi-tramp-khto-krashchij-dlja-ukrajini.html

You never read that article, or if you did, you didn't understand it.
Not surprising: you were caught with your pants down before when you quoted that book you never read, only to prove yourself wrong.

The author says what I always told you:

The main political opponent of Joe Biden, Donald Trump, on the contrary, is famous for his unpredictability and impulsiveness. Trump's unpredictability in international politics is a very big risk for Ukraine. It is quite possible to expect a complete cessation of military and financial support from him..

Another risk is that if Trump wins another election, the role of extreme MAGA-Republicans may increase. It is this group that is most often critical of further support for Ukraine. Since the internal opposition to Trump in the Republican Party has effectively disappeared, the political balance there may shift in the direction of the most ardent Trumpists. Even quite powerful Republican politicians, who previously openly supported Ukraine, are now forced to follow Trump's fairway. This is certainly alarming news for Ukraine.

In the current difficult circumstances, it is quite likely that Ukraine should not take any risks
.

As always, you extracted from the text only what fits the propaganda of the Democrats. You are not taking into account the entire context of the article. But I posted this article here not only for you, but also for other readers. And the author correctly writes that Biden is a coward and a bas.tard.
In any case, this article proves that few people like Biden in Ukraine.

And yet, I don’t need to read some books in full, especially when they contain information that is a truism for me. I don't re-read information that I know. You are like a 100% troll from the Democrats, instead of telling me thank you for enlightening you, you are trying to accuse me of something.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 04:21
NATO ministers’ doubts, fears and eye-rolls over €100B Ukraine plan
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-foreign-ministers-doubts-fears-eye-rolls-e100b-ukraine-plan/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-foreign-ministers-doubts-fears-eye-rolls-e100b-ukraine-plan/)

"The secretary-general's idea is to take the politics and uncertainty out of military aid to Ukraine by setting up a five-year, €100 billion fund and having the alliance shoulder more of the weight in organizing arms for Kyiv."

Ukraine needs 100 billion a year, not for 5 years. This is the opinion of Ukrainian military experts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 04:51
Ukraine. The Ukrainian Armed Forces are liquidating Russian tanks. Video.

https://t.me/ssternenko/27068

https://t.me/pidrozdilshadowoficial/441

 ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 04, 2024, 07:11
There are only a few useful idiots here and there who still believe that maga and trump will save Ukraine.
You can also call the Ukrainian media idiots. I provide a link to the Ukrainian article. You can translate it in Google translator. The article says Biden is an ass.hole.

https://zn.ua/ukr/WORLD/bajden-chi-tramp-khto-krashchij-dlja-ukrajini.html

You never read that article, or if you did, you didn't understand it.
Not surprising: you were caught with your pants down before when you quoted that book you never read, only to prove yourself wrong.

The author says what I always told you:

The main political opponent of Joe Biden, Donald Trump, on the contrary, is famous for his unpredictability and impulsiveness. Trump's unpredictability in international politics is a very big risk for Ukraine. It is quite possible to expect a complete cessation of military and financial support from him..

Another risk is that if Trump wins another election, the role of extreme MAGA-Republicans may increase. It is this group that is most often critical of further support for Ukraine. Since the internal opposition to Trump in the Republican Party has effectively disappeared, the political balance there may shift in the direction of the most ardent Trumpists. Even quite powerful Republican politicians, who previously openly supported Ukraine, are now forced to follow Trump's fairway. This is certainly alarming news for Ukraine.

In the current difficult circumstances, it is quite likely that Ukraine should not take any risks
.

As always, you extracted from the text only what fits the propaganda of the Democrats. You are not taking into account the entire context of the article. But I posted this article here not only for you, but also for other readers. And the author correctly writes that Biden is a coward and a bas.tard.
In any case, this article proves that few people like Biden in Ukraine.

And yet, I don’t need to read some books in full, especially when they contain information that is a truism for me. I don't re-read information that I know. You are like a 100% troll from the Democrats, instead of telling me thank you for enlightening you, you are trying to accuse me of something.  ;D ;D ;D

This is amusing. Even when the articles you are citing contradict you, they are propaganda.
That book you mentioned, which you did not read, did not contain "truisms." Like this article, that book contradicted your statement.

Far from calling Biden an as*hole, the article is, at best, ambivalent. But overall it warns about the enormous risk of betting on the erratic behavior of the fool, stating that Ukraine is better off relying on Biden's predictability.
It also highlights that while it needs more from the current administration, Ukraine should not risk with the moron.
It only leaves the door open to an unlikely surprise from the moron. But it also suggests that Ukraine's future shouldn't be gambled in a casino when the odds are heavily stacked against it.

This is the conclusion of the article; learn to read or learn to comprehend what you read:

In the current difficult circumstances, it is quite likely that Ukraine should not take any risks. Despite all the weaknesses of the Biden administration, you can at least roughly understand what to expect from it. With Trump, everything is much more complicated. However, there is currently no absolutely clear answer as to who may be better for us in the future of several years: the overly predictable and cautious Biden or the inconsistent impulsive Trump

This is maga:
These are not arguments, this is the opinion of one politician.
Again, learn to read. It is not only the opinion of one politician, but the opinion of 117 politicians, the maga majority within the GOP, the same majority the article you are quoting without reading is warning about.
And they put this opinion into action when they repealed the aid for Ukraine. They will do it again attempting to get rid of the speaker of the house (again), if he is not listening to the maga majority.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 08:17
However, there is currently no absolutely clear answer as to who may be better for us in the future of several years: the overly predictable and cautious Biden or the inconsistent impulsive Trump
1. This article is the opinion of the author and reflects those publications that exist in Ukraine.
2. I gave you a link to this article so that you stop writing that Ukraine supports Biden and wants to work with him.

Again, learn to read. It is not only the opinion of one politician, but the opinion of 117 politicians, the maga majority within the GOP, the same majority the article you are quoting without reading is warning about.
And they put this opinion into action when they repealed the aid for Ukraine. They will do it again attempting to get rid of the speaker of the house (again), if he is not listening to the maga majority.
I already wrote. I liked what this lady wrote. She raised poignant and valid questions. It is unclear why Israel and Taiwan receive interest-free aid when they can pay.
I have already answered your other questions and hints many times in this thread and why the Republicans are doing the right thing when they block Democratic aid for Ukraine.
I don’t see a threat to Ukraine from Trump, I only see a threat from Biden and the Democrats.
At this forum, at the moment, only I represent Ukraine. Therefore my vote is decisive.
You can rage and be indignant about this as much as you want, but this is the reality. I don't support your propaganda.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 04, 2024, 09:07
The fact remains: you were caught with your pants down! Again!
You didn't read the information you are served, or you lack the reading skills to comprehend it, before it is explained to you

First, you share the article to enforce your claim that Biden is an a**hole, and when you are faced with the reality, you play down the relevance of your article, claiming that's just someone's opinion.

In reality, the author of the article is close to the position intelligent Ukrainians have.

Only putin's useful idiots would still believe that trump and maga will save Ukraine after reading so much evidence proving the opposite, or maybe simpletons who can't comprehend what they read.

Only putin's useful idiots would side with Marjorie Taylor Greene and her 117 maga representatives who denied Ukraine the help it needed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 09:09
Zero Talent, I am tired of you.  ;D ;D ;D
You are not interesting to read, you constantly write the same nonsense. I will not bother you.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 04, 2024, 09:34
Zero Talent, I am tired of you.  ;D ;D ;D
You are not interesting to read, you constantly write the same nonsense. I will not bother you.

Wrong again.
I read your article and, at the same time, proved that you didn't read it, or if you did, you didn't understand it. Your choice.

No matter what you choose, the fact remains: you were caught with your pants down! Again!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 10:34
"Mike McCaul says that Sullivan believes that Russia will launch a first nuclear strike against the United States if Ukraine is given too much military aid.

What planet is Jake living on?"

https://twitter.com/colbybadhwar/status/1775858657369948530 (https://twitter.com/colbybadhwar/status/1775858657369948530)

______
Democrats are cowardly bas.tards! Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 04, 2024, 12:27
"Mike McCaul says that Sullivan believes that Russia will launch a first nuclear strike against the United States if Ukraine is given too much military aid.

What planet is Jake living on?"

https://twitter.com/colbybadhwar/status/1775858657369948530 (https://twitter.com/colbybadhwar/status/1775858657369948530)

______
Democrats are cowardly bas.tards! Democrats - fuck you!

This is also what McCaul just said:

“I think that Russian propaganda has unfortunately infiltrated the United States, and it has infected a large portion of my party’s base,” House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman and Texas Republican Michael McCaul told Puck News.

https://ukrainetoday.org/russian-propaganda-has-infected-some-american-republicans-us-congressman/

He is talking about maga, about MTG and the 117 maga majority voting against Ukraine.

Obviously russian propaganda is also doing a great job among Ukrainians, transforming some of them in putin's useful idiots.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 04, 2024, 12:46
US Congresswoman Spartz won't support Ukraine aid bill – WSJ

The Wall Street Journal has learned that Congresswoman Victoria Spartz, who was born in Ukraine, will not support the proposed US$60 billion aid package for Kyiv as she wants US President Joe Biden to provide a more straightforward strategy for US involvement in the war.

"I understand the importance of this battle and the implications if Russia is going to prevail, but I’m also not very naive. If we don’t have proper oversight, we are not going to achieve our goals," she added.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/victoria-spartz-ukraine-aid-69ef4ed1?mod=hp_lead_pos8 (https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/victoria-spartz-ukraine-aid-69ef4ed1?mod=hp_lead_pos8)
____

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 04, 2024, 13:21
US Congresswoman Spartz won't support Ukraine aid bill – WSJ

The Wall Street Journal has learned that Congresswoman Victoria Spartz, who was born in Ukraine, will not support the proposed US$60 billion aid package for Kyiv as she wants US President Joe Biden to provide a more straightforward strategy for US involvement in the war.

"I understand the importance of this battle and the implications if Russia is going to prevail, but I’m also not very naive. If we don’t have proper oversight, we are not going to achieve our goals," she added.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/victoria-spartz-ukraine-aid-69ef4ed1?mod=hp_lead_pos8 (https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/victoria-spartz-ukraine-aid-69ef4ed1?mod=hp_lead_pos8)
____

+100

As predicted long ago, the last of the true Republican holdouts are joining trump’s maga anti-Ukraine crusade.

She is running for re-election this year and has realized that she stands no chance of winning the GoP primaries if she does not embrace the anti-Ukraine maga rhetoric.
Such a shame!

Only putin's useful idiots are cheering for this betrayal.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 05, 2024, 00:05
Ukraine’s allies not giving enough air defence, minister says
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-allies-not-giving-enough-air-defence-minister-says-2024-04-03/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-allies-not-giving-enough-air-defence-minister-says-2024-04-03/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 02:28
Ukraine’s allies not giving enough air defence, minister says
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-allies-not-giving-enough-air-defence-minister-says-2024-04-03/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-allies-not-giving-enough-air-defence-minister-says-2024-04-03/)
+100
As long as Democrats are in power in the United States, Ukrainians will die. US Democrats are evil, their place is in prison and in the electric chair. It is the Democrats who shape NATO policy. NATO under the democrats is an alliance of cowardly countries, Europarasites.

Democrats - fuck you!
Biden - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 03:08
In the cowardly and bas.tard democratic media, they constantly write that Putin said that if NATO does not stop him from killing Ukrainians, then putin will not occupy the EU countries. Democratic media tell their supporters that they need to believe what putin says, and that Biden’s policies are the most correct.
I am shocked that citizens of NATO countries do not know history. These people do not want to see 100% similarities between what happened at the beginning of the Second World War.
Democratic propaganda is evil. Democrats are friends of Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 06:15
There is good news today.  ;D ;D ;D

Ukrainian Security Service's drones attack Russian airfield

At least six Russian military aircraft were destroyed, and another eight were heavily damaged. In addition to the equipment, about 20 Russian military personnel became cargo 200 (were killed – ed.) or cargo 300 (injured).

The attack on the Morozovsk airfield in Russia has been carried out by the Security Service of Ukraine together with the units of the Defence Forces.

Witnesses reported numerous drones and counted more than 60 explosions. Several districts had beet cut off from the power grid after it.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/5/7449822/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/5/7449822/)


Glory to Ukraine!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 06:32
https://twitter.com/albafella1/status/1775980297865097389

Soviet dissident Alexander Skobov, detained by Putin's police on charges of justifying terrorism, has been arrested. In court, he shouted: “Glory to Ukraine! Death to the Russian invaders! Death to the murderer Putin!”

Finding himself in the judicial “aquarium,” Skobov said: “Glory to Ukraine! Death to the murderer Putin! I see no point in participating in this farce, and the only reason for participating in this trial is to spit in the face of the court.”

Alexander Skobov is, of course, a true hero.

The seriously ill old man continued to tell the truth during this dark time. And he waited for darkness to come to his doorstep. He was waiting for arrest. He knew that he could not be a partisan due to his age and poor health. Cannot be a warrior of volunteer units. He understood that he had the only weapon - his voice. And so that his voice would be louder, he waited for arrest. With samurai courage.

If the nation still has honor and conscience, then this honor and conscience is called “Alexander Skobov”.
________

Perhaps this is the last normal Russian in the entire Russian empire.
We do not see any actions of support from other Russians, of whom there are 140 million living in russia. My conclusion, as always, is correct, Russians are genetic slaves and orcs who support Nazism and putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 05, 2024, 13:03
Here’s what a Le Pen presidency would really mean for France — and the EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 05, 2024, 13:08
In the cowardly and bas.tard democratic media, they constantly write that Putin said that if NATO does not stop him from killing Ukrainians, then putin will not occupy the EU countries. Democratic media tell their supporters that they need to believe what putin says, and that Biden’s policies are the most correct.
I am shocked that citizens of NATO countries do not know history. These people do not want to see 100% similarities between what happened at the beginning of the Second World War.
Democratic propaganda is evil. Democrats are friends of Russians.

… you are naive if you think that anyone in EU and USA will fight your war… ordinary people don’t wont to even think about that possibility… even people from Ukraine flee on daily basis… but, for sure they will sell you weapons and give credits as long your country have something to give…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 13:42
 8) 8) 8)

Ukraine. A Russian convoy was destroyed in the Lyman direction. The work of the "Azov" regiment. The Russians were liquidated by mines, artillery, ATGM and FPV.
Spectacular video.  ;D ;D ;D

https://t.me/ssternenko/27142


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 13:45
I present an interview with a Ukrainian soldier who independently eliminated 400 Russian orcs and 60 units of Russian armored vehicles.   8) 8) 8)
There is an English translation in the subtitle settings.

https://youtu.be/HvBsYN9zXJU (https://youtu.be/HvBsYN9zXJU)


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 13:50
Here’s what a Le Pen presidency would really mean for France — and the EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/)
+100
Le Pen is an agent of the KGB and an agent of putin. She is no better than Merkel.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 13:53
In the cowardly and bas.tard democratic media, they constantly write that Putin said that if NATO does not stop him from killing Ukrainians, then putin will not occupy the EU countries. Democratic media tell their supporters that they need to believe what putin says, and that Biden’s policies are the most correct.
I am shocked that citizens of NATO countries do not know history. These people do not want to see 100% similarities between what happened at the beginning of the Second World War.
Democratic propaganda is evil. Democrats are friends of Russians.

… you are naive if you think that anyone in EU and USA will fight your war… ordinary people don’t wont to even think about that possibility… even people from Ukraine flee on daily basis… but, for sure they will sell you weapons and give credits as long your country have something to give…
This is exactly what the whole world thought in 1939. Many people know how it all ended, unless, of course, they studied history at school.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 05, 2024, 15:42
Here’s what a Le Pen presidency would really mean for France — and the EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/)
+100
Le Pen is an agent of the KGB and an agent of putin. She is no better than Merkel.

It becomes apparent that you don't realize that there is no significant difference between Le Pen and Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 05, 2024, 15:59
Here’s what a Le Pen presidency would really mean for France — and the EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/)
+100
Le Pen is an agent of the KGB and an agent of putin. She is no better than Merkel.
It becomes apparent that you don't realize that there is no significant difference between Le Pen and Trump.
Wilm, when will you answer my question? I've been waiting for an answer from you for two days now. This is a 3rd grade elementary school level question. You don't want to say that you're still a schoolboy. Did you study history at school? I am already beginning to fear for the level of education of children in Germany.
 ;D ;D ;D

There is not much difference between Le Pen and Merkel. That's for sure. But there is no 100% certainty about Le Pen yet; she was not yet in power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 05, 2024, 16:56
Here’s what a Le Pen presidency would really mean for France — and the EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/)
+100
Le Pen is an agent of the KGB and an agent of putin. She is no better than Merkel.
It becomes apparent that you don't realize that there is no significant difference between Le Pen and Trump.
Wilm, when will you answer my question? I've been waiting for an answer from you for two days now. This is a 3rd grade elementary school level question. You don't want to say that you're still a schoolboy. Did you study history at school? I am already beginning to fear for the level of education of children in Germany.
 ;D ;D ;D

There is not much difference between Le Pen and Merkel. That's for sure. But there is no 100% certainty about Le Pen yet; she was not yet in power.

Are you kidding me with your question about the beginning of the second world war? Even if I lacked any education, I could read up on it immediately.
But I suspect that you would then give me an answer that can't be found in the history books - and that's exactly what you're getting at, isn't it?

So: educate us! In your opinion, when did the Second World War begin? Let us share your knowledge that no one else has!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 06, 2024, 02:46
Here’s what a Le Pen presidency would really mean for France — and the EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/france-what-le-pen-president-would-mean-eu-elections-national-rally/)
+100
Le Pen is an agent of the KGB and an agent of putin. She is no better than Merkel.
It becomes apparent that you don't realize that there is no significant difference between Le Pen and Trump.
Wilm, when will you answer my question? I've been waiting for an answer from you for two days now. This is a 3rd grade elementary school level question. You don't want to say that you're still a schoolboy. Did you study history at school? I am already beginning to fear for the level of education of children in Germany.
 ;D ;D ;D

There is not much difference between Le Pen and Merkel. That's for sure. But there is no 100% certainty about Le Pen yet; she was not yet in power.

Are you kidding me with your question about the beginning of the second world war? Even if I lacked any education, I could read up on it immediately.
But I suspect that you would then give me an answer that can't be found in the history books - and that's exactly what you're getting at, isn't it?

So: educate us! In your opinion, when did the Second World War begin? Let us share your knowledge that no one else has!
Everything is very simple. My question has no hidden meaning. You write as a person who does not know when and in what year the Second World War began. When a person does not know history, he writes nonsense. Which you proved by your reluctance to answer the question (or not knowing) the answer. In a modern school history lesson, you would be given a grade of 1 point (on a 10-point system) for not knowing history and, accordingly, for the nonsense you write.
Let me give you another example: a person who does not know the basics of mathematics (2+2=4) will not be able to understand more complex mathematics. This is axiom.
You are an amateur and a layman.
I’m still waiting for you to answer the question; you can hire a tutor or attend classes at school or try to find out and figure it out yourself. Then it will be possible to continue at least some kind of dialogue with you.
 ;D ;D ;D

Wilm, don’t disgrace Germany, answer the question already.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 06, 2024, 02:59
You can be very sure that there are very few adults in Germany who don't know when the First and Second World Wars took place. This is simply due to Germany's inglorious role in both wars.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 06, 2024, 03:19
Incidentally, I live in a city where the effects of the Second World War are still clearly visible today. Back then, 500,000 incendiary bombs were dropped on Kiel alone. It was the same in many German cities. You can be sure that the Second World War is still very much etched in the minds of Germans!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 06, 2024, 04:22
 :'( :'( :'(
Wilm, All of you Germans have some kind of deep psychological problems. I’m not a psychologist. But I can say for sure that these psychological problems are preventing you from answering my simple question that I am asking.
My question does not concern Germany's successes or failures, glory or non-glory. I don’t care about your ancestors, the Ukrainians in those years already demonstrated to the whole world how they know how to fight when the United States supplied weapons through Lend-Lease.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 06, 2024, 04:27
If it were not for Nazism in Germany in those years, then the idea of ​​destroying the USSR and eliminating the Russian communists was very good. The Ukrainians even then wanted to fight against the Russians, but German Nazism ruined everything.
 :(

As a result, Ukraine remained under the occupation of Russian fascists until 1991.  :(

And now Russian orcs continue the genocide of Ukrainians. This is what it means to have good undertakings that were not completed in the past.  :(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 06, 2024, 04:36
You can be very sure that there are very few adults in Germany who don't know when the Second World Wars took place.
Well, finally write it!!!
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 06, 2024, 05:50
First World War took place. This is simply due to Germany's inglorious role in war.
Yes, it is a great pity that Germany then lost the First World War. It was possible to deal with the Germans then. Germany supported Ukraine as an independent state. Thanks to German military assistance, the Russians could not then occupy Ukraine and begin the genocide of the Ukrainian people.
But countries such as England, the USA, France and Italy surrendered Ukraine to the Russian orcs.
The enemy of the world was not Germany, but russia. It’s a shame that this understanding came much later.
 :(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 06, 2024, 07:27
But I can say for sure that these psychological problems are preventing you from answering my simple question that I am asking.

Honestly, the question is just too stupid for me! Wouldn't you feel like a fool if I asked you what year the Russians invaded Ukraine or whether you know who the current Ukrainian president is?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 06, 2024, 07:41
But I can say for sure that these psychological problems are preventing you from answering my simple question that I am asking.

Honestly, the question is just too stupid for me! Wouldn't you feel like a fool if I asked you what year the Russians invaded Ukraine or whether you know who the current Ukrainian president is?
And I will answer you willingly, I have nothing to fear.
Russian orcs attacked Ukraine in 2014.
But there are questions with the President of Ukraine; clarification is needed from the constitutional court.  ;D

You wrote that at the moment there is no third world war. Only a person who does not know history and does not know when the Second World War began can say this.
That’s why I want to hear from you the year the Second World War began.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 06, 2024, 17:25
But I can say for sure that these psychological problems are preventing you from answering my simple question that I am asking.

Honestly, the question is just too stupid for me! Wouldn't you feel like a fool if I asked you what year the Russians invaded Ukraine or whether you know who the current Ukrainian president is?

Only a person who does not know history and does not know when the Second World War began can say this.
That’s why I want to hear from you the year the Second World War began.


You see, I knew that your question was a decoy to present your own opinion here.
So I don't know when either the Second or the Third World War started.
But that's not so bad, because in you we have a master who can give us the light of knowledge. Thank you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on April 07, 2024, 01:15
Is there a chance that NATO will be dissolved by Trump after his election victory?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 07, 2024, 01:59
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 07, 2024, 02:01
Ukraine faces key battle in Chasiv Yar, a 'door' to Donbas
https://www.rfi.fr/en/international-news/20240406-ukraine-faces-key-battle-in-chasiv-yar-a-door-to-donbas (https://www.rfi.fr/en/international-news/20240406-ukraine-faces-key-battle-in-chasiv-yar-a-door-to-donbas)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 02:07
But I can say for sure that these psychological problems are preventing you from answering my simple question that I am asking.

Honestly, the question is just too stupid for me! Wouldn't you feel like a fool if I asked you what year the Russians invaded Ukraine or whether you know who the current Ukrainian president is?

Only a person who does not know history and does not know when the Second World War began can say this.
That’s why I want to hear from you the year the Second World War began.


You see, I knew that your question was a decoy to present your own opinion here.
So I don't know when either the Second or the Third World War started.
I wrote a few days ago that you look like a person who doesn’t know history. That's why I asked you one question. But judging by the lack of response from you, you really don’t know history well.
In any case, you now know what knowledge gaps you need to fill.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 02:12
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Yes, some Ukrainians fought for the independence of Ukraine as part of the German troops. But this division was quickly defeated in the first battle. The balance of power was unequal. The USSR then received military assistance from the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 03:06
Ukraine faces key battle in Chasiv Yar, a 'door' to Donbas
https://www.rfi.fr/en/international-news/20240406-ukraine-faces-key-battle-in-chasiv-yar-a-door-to-donbas (https://www.rfi.fr/en/international-news/20240406-ukraine-faces-key-battle-in-chasiv-yar-a-door-to-donbas)
russia occupies 1/6 of the earth's landmass. 140 million people live on the territory of this empire. But the Russian army of orcs only knows how to fight women and children. Russians can only advance in one direction, and that is Chasiv Yar. Chasiv Yar is the height from which the Ukrainian Armed Forces successfully eliminate Russians every day. If there are no problems with shells, and the Russians crawl under Ukrainian artillery like zombies, then there will be no problems with maintaining this height. Now there are shells, enough to eliminate the Russians in Chasiv Yar.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 07, 2024, 04:30
But I can say for sure that these psychological problems are preventing you from answering my simple question that I am asking.

Honestly, the question is just too stupid for me! Wouldn't you feel like a fool if I asked you what year the Russians invaded Ukraine or whether you know who the current Ukrainian president is?

Only a person who does not know history and does not know when the Second World War began can say this.
That’s why I want to hear from you the year the Second World War began.


You see, I knew that your question was a decoy to present your own opinion here.
So I don't know when either the Second or the Third World War started.
I wrote a few days ago that you look like a person who doesn’t know history. That's why I asked you one question. But judging by the lack of response from you, you really don’t know history well.
In any case, you now know what knowledge gaps you need to fill.  ;D ;D ;D

All discussions here fail due to your arrogant delusions of grandeur - but above all due to a lack of basic knowledge.

You obviously don't understand the difference between "crisis", "armed conflict" and "war". According to the definition of international law, there is no basis whatsoever to speak of a third world war, in particular the "animus belligerandi" is missing here.

Of course, you can redefine each of these terms for yourself. However, this makes any communication to the outside world impossible, as the last 100 pages here impressively demonstrate.

So it is a fact, without any discussion, that the the Second World War began on September 1, 1939, when Germany, led by Adolf Hitler, invaded Poland. This invasion prompted Britain and France to declare war on Germany on September 3, 1939, marking the beginning of the global conflict.

Signs or Omen of a possible war, which ultimately can only ever be retroactively proven as such, are by definition not a state of war.
 
Obviously you are to stupid for the question.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 07, 2024, 05:34
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Yes, some Ukrainians fought for the independence of Ukraine as part of the German troops. But this division was quickly defeated in the first battle. The balance of power was unequal. The USSR then received military assistance from the United States.
… so those were only independence fighters, ordinary dresses without ideology…?! :) you are totally spinning all facts, bit I’m still not sure why…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 07, 2024, 07:57
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Yes, some Ukrainians fought for the independence of Ukraine as part of the German troops. But this division was quickly defeated in the first battle. The balance of power was unequal. The USSR then received military assistance from the United States.
… so those were only independence fighters, ordinary dresses without ideology…?! :) you are totally spinning all facts, bit I’m still not sure why…

This is not uncommon. The entire Romanian army fought against the USSR alongside German troops or under German command. While there were ideological similarities between the German and Romanian leadership, the main reason for the alliance was the necessity to liberate the Romanian lands that the Russian Empire had occupied in 1940 (what are today the independent country of Moldova and parts of today's Ukraine).
Those territories were briefly liberated; the Romanian army even occupied Odessa but suffered a massive defeat at Stalingrad, and those lands were lost again.

Basically, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 07, 2024, 08:39
… I do now and understand that, but Bram Stoker have totally twisted reality of ww2… while seeking naz..m in modern times, in his own world SS troops are being liberation armies… there is no place for teisting history facts - SS is SS, whatever someone trying to replace them with… like modern batallions are, with same ‘liberation’ ideology…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 09:41
You obviously don't understand the difference between "crisis" and "war".
Oh yes, they like to repeat this phrase in the Europarasite media, calling the war in Ukraine a crisis. Merkel taught this to the EU.

According to the definition of international law, there is no basis whatsoever to speak of a third world war, in particular the "animus belligerandi" is missing here.
Where did you read this nonsense?  ;D
Or maybe the doctor has already become a lawyer?  ;D
Well, tell historians that the Second World War did not begin in 1939, following your logic.

So it is a fact, without any discussion, that the the Second World War began on September 1, 1939, when Germany, led by Adolf Hitler, invaded Poland. This invasion prompted Britain and France to declare war on Germany on September 3, 1939, marking the beginning of the global conflict.
Bingo! Well, at least one German named the year the Second World War began. For the school level, the answer is correct!
For the higher education institution level, the answer is not correct enough. The Second World War began in 1938 (with the German occupation of part of Czechoslovakia).
But okay, let’s take 1939 as a basis, not everyone here obviously graduated from a higher education institution.
I answer and draw analogies:
1. The Russian occupation of Crimea and several regions of Ukraine is an analogue of Czechoslovakia and Poland.
2. France and Britain were not actively fighting, they were simply trying to hold the line of defense.
3. China, Iran, North Korea and Balarus supply weapons to Russia. Countries of the democratic world supply weapons to Ukraine. Economic sanctions have been introduced. This is all much more serious than even 1939.
The fact that Ukraine does not surrender like Poland in a few days only shows that Ukrainians are warriors and not cowards. This does not change the essence of the fact that the third world war is underway.

Signs or Omen of a possible war, which ultimately can only ever be retroactively proven as such, are by definition not a state of war.
Obviously you are to stupid for the question.
I already realized that the Europarasites will wait many years for historians to finally tell them what it was like in Europe. War or Ukrainian crisis? German media presenting you Russian propaganda
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 09:56
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Galician)
Yes, some Ukrainians fought for the independence of Ukraine as part of the German troops. But this division was quickly defeated in the first battle. The balance of power was unequal. The USSR then received military assistance from the United States.
… so those were only independence fighters, ordinary dresses without ideology…?! :) you are totally spinning all facts, bit I’m still not sure why…
What do you want to know? And why are you even asking? I answered your question about history. Do you want me to evaluate those people who fought in this division? What is the point of your questions?  ;D

There is such a Ukrainian writer, Ivan Bahrianyi. He wrote the novel The Fiery Circle (Neu Ulm, 1953). The novel was published in Germany. I doubt that this novel can be found in different languages and I am not sure whether it was translated into German. The problem is that few people in the world know Ukrainian authors.
From myself I can say that the level of the writer is no weaker than the same Remarque.
So, in this novel, the author described the events that occurred during the battle of the Ukrainians as part of the German division.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 10:20
A world war is not only military operations, it is also sanctions and the supply of weapons. Will there be military operations on the territory of the EU countries? This will depend on the success of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and on the amount of weapons supplied to Ukraine. If the Russian army is eliminated on the territory of Ukraine, fighting in the EU may not begin. We already see an approaching war between Israel and Iran. China plans to occupy Taiwan. The third world war is already underway.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 07, 2024, 10:43

This does not change the essence of the fact that the third world war is underway.


As expected, you didn't understand most of my text.

So far you have claimed that the third world war is already here. But now it's not. Interesting.
Incidentally, the assumption that a third world war could be coming is not a fact. It is only a fact when it actually happens.

Your description of 1938 is wrong.
There was no occupation in the true sense of the word.
In order to avoid war, England and France pursued a policy of appeasement, culminating in the Munich Agreement of September 29, 1938, which sealed the cession of the Sudetenland to Germany. This is precisely why historians do not regard this date as the beginning of the Second World War but the attack on Poland 1939. Because the latter corresponds to the definition of war in international law.

Also interesting that you imagine you know what I do for a living. I don't work in a hospital, I didn't just study medicine and I work as a court expert, among other things. Yes, I can read legal texts.

And leave out the stupid smileys. It just makes your misinterpretations even more ridiculous.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 11:31
This does not change the essence of the fact that the third world war is underway.
So far you have claimed that the third world war is already here. But now it's not. Interesting.
Where is here?
I wrote and write that the third world war has been going on since 2014. For the last two years, Germany has been supplying trainloads of weapons to Ukraine.

Incidentally, the assumption that a third world war could be coming is not a fact. It is only a fact when it actually happens.
When a person does not know history, does not understand what is happening in the world and reads only propaganda, this is exactly the conclusion he draws. This is how propaganda works. Propaganda influences illiterate people.

Your description of 1938 is wrong.
There was no occupation in the true sense of the word.
In order to avoid war, England and France pursued a policy of appeasement, culminating in the Munich Agreement of September 29, 1938, which sealed the cession of the Sudetenland to Germany.
::) ::) ::)
Are you a Na.zi?
Of course, no one asked Czechoslovakia’s opinion.
From your posts I see that the level of education of people in Germany is very low, if the Germans do not consider the occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1938 an occupation. This is already a heavy case with you.

This is precisely why historians do not regard this date as the beginning of the Second World War but the attack on Poland 1939. Because the latter corresponds to the definition of war in international law.
It is obvious that you have only read Wikipedia, amateur material.  ;D

You started making a lot of references to international law. Support your unsubstantiated claims with links.

Also interesting that you imagine you know what I do for a living. I don't work in a hospital, I didn't just study medicine and I work as a court expert, among other things. Yes, I can read legal texts.
Court expert prescribe drugs to people?
Even if you work as a medical or criminal expert, this does not make you an international lawyer.
This topic discusses more politics and history.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 07, 2024, 11:48
You obviously don't understand the difference between "crisis" and "war".
Oh yes, they like to repeat this phrase in the Europarasite media, calling the war in Ukraine a crisis. Merkel taught this to the EU.

According to the definition of international law, there is no basis whatsoever to speak of a third world war, in particular the "animus belligerandi" is missing here.
Where did you read this nonsense?  ;D
Or maybe the doctor has already become a lawyer?  ;D
Well, tell historians that the Second World War did not begin in 1939, following your logic.

So it is a fact, without any discussion, that the the Second World War began on September 1, 1939, when Germany, led by Adolf Hitler, invaded Poland. This invasion prompted Britain and France to declare war on Germany on September 3, 1939, marking the beginning of the global conflict.
Bingo! Well, at least one German named the year the Second World War began. For the school level, the answer is correct!
For the higher education institution level, the answer is not correct enough. The Second World War began in 1938 (with the German occupation of part of Czechoslovakia).
But okay, let’s take 1939 as a basis, not everyone here obviously graduated from a higher education institution.
I answer and draw analogies:
1. The Russian occupation of Crimea and several regions of Ukraine is an analogue of Czechoslovakia and Poland.
2. France and Britain were not actively fighting, they were simply trying to hold the line of defense.
3. China, Iran, North Korea and Balarus supply weapons to Russia. Countries of the democratic world supply weapons to Ukraine. Economic sanctions have been introduced. This is all much more serious than even 1939.
The fact that Ukraine does not surrender like Poland in a few days only shows that Ukrainians are warriors and not cowards. This does not change the essence of the fact that the third world war is underway.

Signs or Omen of a possible war, which ultimately can only ever be retroactively proven as such, are by definition not a state of war.
Obviously you are to stupid for the question.
I already realized that the Europarasites will wait many years for historians to finally tell them what it was like in Europe. War or Ukrainian crisis? German media presenting you Russian propaganda
 ;D ;D ;D

What you wrote here was to be expected, as I had already written it before. That's why it was too stupid for me to answer your question.

That you know better than all the historians in the world was also to be expected. That you have the arrogance to call others low-level educated and elevate yourself to a higher level of education was also to be expected.

Incidentally, you argue about the Third World War in exactly the same way as the Russian propagandist Vladimir Solovyov.

Yes, we are moving dangerously close to the Third World War. And if you had the power, it would probably have already begun.

However, the fact that we can still communicate with each other here proves that it is not - yet - that far.

And I hope that humanity will be prudent enough to keep it that way. We will soon have another crisis area in Venezuela/Guyana. And there will be more in Africa too. More and more oil is being added to the fire.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 12:18
Incidentally, you argue about the Third World War in exactly the same way as the Russian propagandist Vladimir Solovyov.
I'm not surprised by your sources of information. It is now clear who you are listening to or reading.
 ;D ;D ;D

Wilm, thanks to this topic you learned when the Second World War began and why.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 07, 2024, 12:26

Support your unsubstantiated claims with link


No, but a narcissist is not worth more effort to me.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 07, 2024, 12:57
Incidentally, you argue about the Third World War in exactly the same way as the Russian propagandist Vladimir Solovyov.
I'm not surprised by your sources of information. It is now clear who you are listening to or reading.
 ;D ;D ;D

The difference between you and me:
Your opinion is congruent with that of the Russian propaganda machine. Mine is not.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 13:47
Incidentally, you argue about the Third World War in exactly the same way as the Russian propagandist Vladimir Solovyov.
I'm not surprised by your sources of information. It is now clear who you are listening to or reading.
 ;D ;D ;D

The difference between you and me:
Your opinion is congruent with that of the Russian propaganda machine. Mine is not.
Your argument is simply off the charts. Compare me with putin, Hitler, Musolini...
If you do not see the difference between what I write and Russian propaganda, this is entirely your personal problem.

Support your unsubstantiated claims with link
No, but a narcissist is not worth more effort to me.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Your drain is counted.
When an uncultured person has no arguments, he will start interpersonal insults.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 07, 2024, 13:54
Former U.S. President Donald Trump has privately said he could end Russia’s war by pressuring Ukraine to cede Crimea and Donbas to Moscow, the Washington Post reported on April 7, citing sources.

https://kyivindependent.com/wp-trump-privately-said-he-could-pressure-ukraine-to-concede-crimea-donbas-to-russia/

This is so obvious for anyone with an IQ>85

Only putin's useful idiots believe that the moron and his maga cult would save Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 07, 2024, 13:57
.... see above.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 14:19
Former U.S. President Donald Trump has privately said he could end Russia’s war by pressuring Ukraine to cede Crimea and Donbas to Moscow, the Washington Post reported on April 7, citing sources.

https://kyivindependent.com/wp-trump-privately-said-he-could-pressure-ukraine-to-concede-crimea-donbas-to-russia/

This is so obvious for anyone with an IQ>85

Only putin's useful idiots believe that the moron and his maga cult would save Ukraine.
1. Zero Talent, what is your IQ?  ;D
2. The sources of this newspaper are not known, named or trustworthy.
3. This all looks like propaganda from the Democrats and Russians against Trump.
4. The Russians annexed part of the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions. They won't want to leave there voluntarily. These are the facts.
5. Trump, as a non-official, can say whatever he wants as long as he does not violate US criminal law.
6. Trump before the presidency and Trump as president will be completely different people. The position obliges him, and the information he will receive from the CIA.
7. Trump does not solve such issues. There must be congressional support in the US.
8. Ukraine will not agree to such proposals.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 07, 2024, 14:20
.... see above.
Why are you creating uninformative messages?  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 07, 2024, 15:34
Incidentally, you argue about the Third World War in exactly the same way as the Russian propagandist Vladimir Solovyov.
I'm not surprised by your sources of information. It is now clear who you are listening to or reading.
 ;D ;D ;D

The difference between you and me:
Your opinion is congruent with that of the Russian propaganda machine. Mine is not.
Your argument is simply off the charts. Compare me with putin, Hitler, Musolini...
If you do not see the difference between what I write and Russian propaganda, this is entirely your personal problem.


The fact remains that your opinions that the Third World War has already begun coincide with those of Vladimir Solovyov - and mine do not. Readers will form their own judgment.
If I were you, however, it would give me pause for thought that your opinion coincides with that of a full-blooded Russian propagandist. Perhaps you could just think about it...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 07, 2024, 15:39
It is also interesting that Vladimir Solovyov also refers to your dearest friend Donald Trump. If the Russian propaganda machine thinks and argues in the same way as Donald Trump, that should also give you pause for thought.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 07, 2024, 15:42
But ultimately it doesn't matter. I could just as well argue with a square meter of country road - the effect is the same. You've built a world view for yourself that nobody will be able to dissuade you from. Until Trump is president - then you will understand what others here have been trying to tell you for hundreds of pages.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 07, 2024, 17:12
Former U.S. President Donald Trump has privately said he could end Russia’s war by pressuring Ukraine to cede Crimea and Donbas to Moscow, the Washington Post reported on April 7, citing sources.

https://kyivindependent.com/wp-trump-privately-said-he-could-pressure-ukraine-to-concede-crimea-donbas-to-russia/

This is so obvious for anyone with an IQ>85

Only putin's useful idiots believe that the moron and his maga cult would save Ukraine.
1. Zero Talent, what is your IQ?  ;D
2. The sources of this newspaper are not known, named or trustworthy.
3. This all looks like propaganda from the Democrats and Russians against Trump.
4. The Russians annexed part of the Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions. They won't want to leave there voluntarily. These are the facts.
5. Trump, as a non-official, can say whatever he wants as long as he does not violate US criminal law.
6. Trump before the presidency and Trump as president will be completely different people. The position obliges him, and the information he will receive from the CIA.
7. Trump does not solve such issues. There must be congressional support in the US.
8. Ukraine will not agree to such proposals.

Right, right, now even The Kyiv Independent is spreading propaganda from the Democrats!
Only a few enlightened people like you can see through it and believe the opposite.
Right, right...

No surprise here... Individuals with an IQ below 85 may experience difficulty in extracting pertinent features related to a specific topic (abstraction). Additionally, they may encounter challenges in providing examples of situations where specific features are present (concretization).

This is why only people with an IQ of less than 85, more specifically, putin's useful idiots, can still believe that trump and his maga cult will save Ukraine, despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary..
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 07, 2024, 22:42
NATO Secretary General says Ukraine will have to decide which compromises it will accept in war with Russia  https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/6/7450046/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/6/7450046/index.amp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 08, 2024, 01:50
The forewarning of what is to come is already on the table.

America First in combination with the narcissism and hunger for power of Donald Trump is leading to the blocking of funds to support Ukraine. Selensky clearly states that Ukraine will lose without these funds. Perhaps there is already a deal going on in the background between Trump and Putin - who knows.

And if Trump wins, the second part of America First will begin. Securing the border against migration from the south and increasing Trump's power to increase his personal wealth. America First could also be called Trump First. And his followers are also promising themselves more power and wealth under Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 03:36
NATO Secretary General says Ukraine will have to decide which compromises it will accept in war with Russia  https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/6/7450046/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/6/7450046/index.amp)
You started reading Ukrainian media, that’s good.  ;D
Oh yes, this friend of the US Democrats has been in his position for a long time. He needs to be changed urgently or put in prison along with Biden.
Yesterday, the Ukrainian media voiced what compromises could be made if NATO does not change its rhetoric and policies. Ukraine can quickly offer the Russian orcs unhindered passage of their 500 thousandth army to the Balkans, Hungary and Slovakia. I think NATO countries will really like this compromise.  ;D ;D ;D
There is no need to joke with Ukraine and there is no need to give Ukraine ultimatums. The consequences of such a policy could cost the EU its independence.
 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 03:42
Incidentally, you argue about the Third World War in exactly the same way as the Russian propagandist Vladimir Solovyov.
I'm not surprised by your sources of information. It is now clear who you are listening to or reading.
 ;D ;D ;D

The difference between you and me:
Your opinion is congruent with that of the Russian propaganda machine. Mine is not.
Your argument is simply off the charts. Compare me with putin, Hitler, Musolini...
If you do not see the difference between what I write and Russian propaganda, this is entirely your personal problem.


The fact remains that your opinions that the Third World War has already begun coincide with those of Vladimir Solovyov - and mine do not. Readers will form their own judgment.
If I were you, however, it would give me pause for thought that your opinion coincides with that of a full-blooded Russian propagandist. Perhaps you could just think about it...
Your texts about politics are at the level of 3-5 class of primary school. I always read your speculations with a smile. But it's not bad. A lot of people have never been interested in politics or history. This is how people live in democratic countries.
As for Russian propaganda, I already wrote that in professional propaganda 80-90% may be true. The propaganda you see in the EU is professionally prepared.
I can’t comment on the Russian propaganda you listen to, because I don’t listen to it. That's all I can tell you.
The goals of the Russians are roughly clear: to occupy the EU until the EU realizes what is happening.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 03:47
Right, right, now even The Kyiv Independent is spreading propaganda from the Democrats!
Of course, the Ukrainian media publishes what is written in influential US newspapers. To understand what is written, a person must have knowledge. Therefore, people who want to understand the essence of what is happening turn to the help of experts. The expert’s task is to explain to people the essence of what is happening. At this forum, so far I am the only one acting as such an expert. If someone better comes along, I will gladly give up this place.

You still haven't answered the question what is your IQ?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2024, 08:43
Right, right, now even The Kyiv Independent is spreading propaganda from the Democrats!
Of course, the Ukrainian media publishes what is written in influential US newspapers. To understand what is written, a person must have knowledge. Therefore, people who want to understand the essence of what is happening turn to the help of experts. The expert’s task is to explain to people the essence of what is happening. At this forum, so far I am the only one acting as such an expert. If someone better comes along, I will gladly give up this place.

You still haven't answered the question what is your IQ?  ;D ;D ;D

For putin's useful idiots, when the exact same media is criticizing the current administration, they are telling the truth. When they mention trump's and maga's  systematic anti-Ukraine positions, they are spreading propaganda.

Obviously only self proclaimed experts, also known as putin's useful idiots can tell the difference.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 08, 2024, 08:49
As Ukraine’s Missiles Run Low, Russian Attack Pilots Are Pushing Closer To The Front Line—And Rocketing Ukrainian Troops
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/08/as-ukraines-missiles-run-low-russian-attack-pilots-are-pushing-closer-to-the-front-line-and-rocketing-ukrainian-troops/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/08/as-ukraines-missiles-run-low-russian-attack-pilots-are-pushing-closer-to-the-front-line-and-rocketing-ukrainian-troops/?sh=7787129c749a)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2024, 08:55
As Ukraine’s Missiles Run Low, Russian Attack Pilots Are Pushing Closer To The Front Line—And Rocketing Ukrainian Troops
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/08/as-ukraines-missiles-run-low-russian-attack-pilots-are-pushing-closer-to-the-front-line-and-rocketing-ukrainian-troops/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/08/as-ukraines-missiles-run-low-russian-attack-pilots-are-pushing-closer-to-the-front-line-and-rocketing-ukrainian-troops/?sh=7787129c749a)

For self proclaimed experts, also known as putin's useful idiots the obvious explanations mentioned in the article  are just propaganda:

But then, in October, Russia-friendly Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives blocked further U.S. aid to Ukraine—and Ukraine’s air-defense batteries began to run low on missiles.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 08, 2024, 09:14
… but, Bram Stokers reality will see this part of the text as KGB propaganda, like before…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 08, 2024, 09:26
New Footage Shows Su-34s Drop Thermobaric Glide Bombs on Ukrainian Forces: ’Vacuum’ Weapons Target Forces in Cover
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/footage-su34s-thermobaric-ukrainian-vacuum
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 09:59
For putin's useful idiots, when the exact same media is criticizing the current administration, they are telling the truth.
I don’t know any media in the US that criticize Biden and the Democrats. Indicate these media in this thread, unless of course you are a Russian useful idiot.  ;D

As Ukraine’s Missiles Run Low, Russian Attack Pilots Are Pushing Closer To The Front Line—And Rocketing Ukrainian Troops
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/08/as-ukraines-missiles-run-low-russian-attack-pilots-are-pushing-closer-to-the-front-line-and-rocketing-ukrainian-troops/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/08/as-ukraines-missiles-run-low-russian-attack-pilots-are-pushing-closer-to-the-front-line-and-rocketing-ukrainian-troops/?sh=7787129c749a)
This is the result of the rule of Biden and the US Democrats. Ukraine was not provided with F16 aircraft and was not provided with the required quantity of Patriot complexes. The aid from the Democrats, which the Republicans are blocking, does not have all this either.
The limited number of Patriot air defense systems supplied does not allow them to be deployed on the front line. Therefore, Russian aviation feels confident.
Democrats - fuck you!

New Footage Shows Su-34s Drop Thermobaric Glide Bombs on Ukrainian Forces: ’Vacuum’ Weapons Target Forces in Cover
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/footage-su34s-thermobaric-ukrainian-vacuum (https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/footage-su34s-thermobaric-ukrainian-vacuum)
This is Russian propaganda. These bombs have no accuracy. Everything written in this article is a lie. The accuracy of these bombs has an error of several kilometers. The situation is not critical at all.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 10:01
The EU now understands what the Russian successes in Ukraine may threaten it with. Therefore, the EU has now begun supplying a large number of shells to Ukraine. As far as I know, this also applies to missiles for various air defenses and Patriot air defense systems are also expected.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 10:06
So, I believe that I respond normally to propaganda from US Democrats and propaganda from their Russian friends. If the situation in Ukraine was as bad as the Russians and democrats write, the Armed Forces of Ukraine would not be able to hold the positions that they hold. I think as an expert, I’m doing a good job on this topic.
Yes, the word expert does not sound familiar, but what I do is called the work of an expert. That's what it's called.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 10:15
It’s funny to read some non-Ukrainian media that confidently and categorically tell what is happening in Ukraine. Of course, I understand that such propaganda comes from US Democrats and their supporters. But for people who want to know the truth, I recommend reading either me or listening to Ukrainian military experts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2024, 11:48
For putin's useful idiots, when the exact same media is criticizing the current administration, they are telling the truth.
I don’t know any media in the US that criticize Biden and the Democrats. Indicate these media in this thread, unless of course you are a Russian useful idiot.  ;D


____

Ukraine’s Lack of Weaponry and Training Risks Stalemate in Fight With Russia
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia-f51ecf9?fbclid=IwAR0CDINKl65bbsuKVcQ8h28b44MWjCUsJ6-XH6OiLBvljNTmYMMGIxcQdf8 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia-f51ecf9?fbclid=IwAR0CDINKl65bbsuKVcQ8h28b44MWjCUsJ6-XH6OiLBvljNTmYMMGIxcQdf8)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia/ar-AA1edW4t (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia/ar-AA1edW4t)

The article criticizes Biden's policies.

It is also known that people with IQ below 85 (putin's useful idiots among them) live in a permanent present. The past and the future are a nebula and they cannot see determination.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2024, 11:58
 ... see above ☝️
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 08, 2024, 12:29
Ithink as an expert, I’m doing a good job on this topic.
Yes, the word expert does not sound familiar, but what I do is called the work of an expert. That's what it's called.

You lack two things: Modesty and understanding.
As far as your narcissism, arrogance and hubris are concerned, you are on the same level as Trump. You even use his rhetoric.
However, I agree with you on one point: Ukraine needs ammunition and, above all, patriots. It would be good if the EU could fill the current hole created by the Trumpists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 12:39
For putin's useful idiots, when the exact same media is criticizing the current administration, they are telling the truth.
I don’t know any media in the US that criticize Biden and the Democrats. Indicate these media in this thread, unless of course you are a Russian useful idiot.  ;D
____
Ukraine’s Lack of Weaponry and Training Risks Stalemate in Fight With Russia
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia-f51ecf9?fbclid=IwAR0CDINKl65bbsuKVcQ8h28b44MWjCUsJ6-XH6OiLBvljNTmYMMGIxcQdf8 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia-f51ecf9?fbclid=IwAR0CDINKl65bbsuKVcQ8h28b44MWjCUsJ6-XH6OiLBvljNTmYMMGIxcQdf8)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia/ar-AA1edW4t (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraines-lack-of-weaponry-and-training-risks-stalemate-in-fight-with-russia/ar-AA1edW4t)

The article criticizes Biden's policies.

It is also known that people with IQ below 85 (putin's useful idiots among them) live in a permanent present. The past and the future are a nebula and I cannot see determination.
I think your IQ is very low if you think that The Wall Street Journal is a publication opposed to US Democrats.
But judging by your stupid trolling, you are very good at helping Trump raise his ratings. People who read you understand that Democratic supporters are either trolls or useful idiots of russia.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 12:44
However, I agree with you on one point: Ukraine needs ammunition and, above all, patriots. It would be good if the EU could fill the current hole created by the Trumpists.
1. There is no need to discuss a person’s personal qualities; there are no ideal people. All people have their shortcomings.
2. The EU should have been involved in the supply of large quantities of weapons to Ukraine a long time ago. I see that you understand this.
3. Ukraine also needs at least 64 F16 this year and 150-200 F16 in 2025. Without gaining air superiority, Ukraine will only be on the defensive. Defense means murder and genocide of civilians by Russian Na.zis.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2024, 12:54
The Wall Street Journal is a publication opposed to US Democrats.

Oh no! You asked me to name a US media outlet that is criticizing Biden, after you named two of them yourself without even realizing it.
But as we all know you are an expert at swallowing your words without being able to understand them.

Can you please continue to swallow your words even more and name the plethora of Washington Post articles you quoted and endorsed in this thread?

But only if we are not asking too much from you. It is known that people with IQ below 85 (putin's useful idiots among them) live in a permanent present.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 13:31
The Wall Street Journal is a publication opposed to US Democrats.

Oh no! You asked me to name a US media outlet that is criticizing Biden, after you named two of them yourself without even realizing it.
But as we all know you are an expert at swallowing your words without being able to understand them.

Can you please continue to swallow your words even more and name the plethora of Washington Post articles you quoted and endorsed in this thread?
Yes, I quote some articles from American newspapers and characterize what is written there. If I wrote that the article is critical, it is because I gave an explanation of why it is critical. The authors of the article did not write it as critical. Such articles are intended for a wide audience that does not understand the causes and consequences.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 13:36
I periodically watch some major TV channels in the USA, and I do not see any information about Ukraine there. This means that the media in the United States is controlled by Democrats and creates a picture of calm in the world, in Ukraine and the success of the bas.tard Biden. After all, why show (even a year before the elections) bad news about Ukraine to voters in the United States? Why spoil Biden's rating.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2024, 13:45
The Wall Street Journal is a publication opposed to US Democrats.

Oh no! You asked me to name a US media outlet that is criticizing Biden, after you named two of them yourself without even realizing it.
But as we all know you are an expert at swallowing your words without being able to understand them.

Can you please continue to swallow your words even more and name the plethora of Washington Post articles you quoted and endorsed in this thread?
Yes, I quote some articles from American newspapers and characterize what is written there. If I wrote that the article is critical, it is because I gave an explanation of why it is critical. The authors of the article did not write it as critical. Such articles are intended for a wide audience that does not understand the causes and consequences.

Let me clarify for you what you just admitted: you are spreading Democrats’ propaganda by quoting media outlets that are spreading Democrats’ propaganda.

Also, based on your own admission, you already knew that at least two media outlets (WSJ and MSN) criticized Biden (btw, there are many more), but since you only live in the present, today you claimed there are none.

It's disheartening to observe how individuals with IQs below 85 perpetually reside in the present moment. The past and future remain nebulous to them, rendering them incapable of formulating coherent, deterministic thoughts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 14:08
The Wall Street Journal is a publication opposed to US Democrats.

Oh no! You asked me to name a US media outlet that is criticizing Biden, after you named two of them yourself without even realizing it.
But as we all know you are an expert at swallowing your words without being able to understand them.

Can you please continue to swallow your words even more and name the plethora of Washington Post articles you quoted and endorsed in this thread?
Yes, I quote some articles from American newspapers and characterize what is written there. If I wrote that the article is critical, it is because I gave an explanation of why it is critical. The authors of the article did not write it as critical. Such articles are intended for a wide audience that does not understand the causes and consequences.

Let me clarify for you what you just admitted: you are spreading Democrats’ propaganda by quoting media outlets that are spreading Democrats’ propaganda.

Also, based on your own admission, you already knew that at least two media outlets (WSJ and MSN) criticized Biden (btw, there are many more), but since you only live in the present, today you claimed there are none.

It's disheartening to observe how individuals with IQs below 85 perpetually reside in the present moment. The past and future remain nebulous to them, rendering them incapable of formulating coherent, deterministic thoughts.
1. I do not spread Democratic propaganda, I write that it is propaganda and explain why.
2. I used information from the articles to criticize Democrats and Biden. The authors did not write a critical article, but thanks to my comment it became critical.
3. You don't know my IQ.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 08, 2024, 14:41
However, I agree with you on one point: Ukraine needs ammunition and, above all, patriots. It would be good if the EU could fill the current hole created by the Trumpists.
1. There is no need to discuss a person’s personal qualities; there are no ideal people. All people have their shortcomings.
2. The EU should have been involved in the supply of large quantities of weapons to Ukraine a long time ago. I see that you understand this.
3. Ukraine also needs at least 64 F16 this year and 150-200 F16 in 2025. Without gaining air superiority, Ukraine will only be on the defensive. Defense means murder and genocide of civilians by Russian Na.zis.

1. Says somebody who does this permanently page by page.  ::) Once again you are contradicting yourself - but that's nothing new.
2. The EU has supplied a lot of weapons and ammunition. I clearly say that there could and should have been much more. On the other hand, I accuse you once again of being ungrateful and not fulfilling your own task, because Ukraine needs people to replace the tired soldiers on the front line. Once again, do your part first before criticizing others.
3. The Ukraine needs weapons for defense. Lots of them. But in my view, weapons for attacking Russian territory must not be supplied. Absolutely not! You can be absolutely sure that this will not happen under the Democrats, nor under the Republicans, no matter how much you hope it will.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 08, 2024, 16:59
But in my view, weapons for attacking Russian territory must not be supplied. Absolutely not! You can be absolutely sure that this will not happen under the Democrats, nor under the Republicans, no matter how much you hope it will.
This is not your opinion, but what your media tells you.
But don't worry, no attack, only defense. For protection, it is necessary to liquidate all military objects on Russian territory and the infrastructure working for the orc army (these are bridges, railway roads, oil refineries, metallurgical plants, power plants, etc.). This is not a large area, just up to the Ural Mountains.  ;D

You cannot know what the Republican policy will be.  :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 08, 2024, 17:23
You cannot know what the Republican policy will be.  :)

Yes, we can.

It's disheartening to observe how individuals with IQs below 85 perpetually reside in the present moment. The past and future remain nebulous to them, rendering them incapable of formulating coherent, deterministic thoughts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 09, 2024, 00:27
Farm trade rift puts Ukraine’s EU aspirations in limbo

https://www.politico.eu/article/farm-trade-ukraine-poland-european-union-agriculture-donald-tusk/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/farm-trade-ukraine-poland-european-union-agriculture-donald-tusk/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 09, 2024, 00:37
However, I agree with you on one point: Ukraine needs ammunition and, above all, patriots. It would be good if the EU could fill the current hole created by the Trumpists.
1. There is no need to discuss a person’s personal qualities; there are no ideal people. All people have their shortcomings.
2. The EU should have been involved in the supply of large quantities of weapons to Ukraine a long time ago. I see that you understand this.
3. Ukraine also needs at least 64 F16 this year and 150-200 F16 in 2025. Without gaining air superiority, Ukraine will only be on the defensive. Defense means murder and genocide of civilians by Russian Na.zis.
… do you really think that anyone have that much jets for Ukraine and just waits to give them to Ukraine…?! That will be just a fiasco, if not operated by long perion trained pilots from west… and that will leed to something much bigger and can provoke more agressive reaction… your realiity is totally insane, if you count on hundreds of F16s… why not better asking F35s, thousands of them…?! That will change your war for sure…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 09, 2024, 03:41
However, I agree with you on one point: Ukraine needs ammunition and, above all, patriots. It would be good if the EU could fill the current hole created by the Trumpists.
1. There is no need to discuss a person’s personal qualities; there are no ideal people. All people have their shortcomings.
2. The EU should have been involved in the supply of large quantities of weapons to Ukraine a long time ago. I see that you understand this.
3. Ukraine also needs at least 64 F16 this year and 150-200 F16 in 2025. Without gaining air superiority, Ukraine will only be on the defensive. Defense means murder and genocide of civilians by Russian Na.zis.
… do you really think that anyone have that much jets for Ukraine and just waits to give them to Ukraine…?! That will be just a fiasco, if not operated by long perion trained pilots from west… and that will leed to something much bigger and can provoke more agressive reaction… your realiity is totally insane, if you count on hundreds of F16s… why not better asking F35s, thousands of them…?! That will change your war for sure…
You are not aware of the issue, and completely unaware.
About 5 thousand F16 were produced. These aircraft are being replaced by F35. The F16 is cheaper to operate. For Russian orcs, F16 is enough. Ukrainian pilots are very good pilots. You can write a lot further.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 09, 2024, 08:35
However, I agree with you on one point: Ukraine needs ammunition and, above all, patriots. It would be good if the EU could fill the current hole created by the Trumpists.
1. There is no need to discuss a person’s personal qualities; there are no ideal people. All people have their shortcomings.
2. The EU should have been involved in the supply of large quantities of weapons to Ukraine a long time ago. I see that you understand this.
3. Ukraine also needs at least 64 F16 this year and 150-200 F16 in 2025. Without gaining air superiority, Ukraine will only be on the defensive. Defense means murder and genocide of civilians by Russian Na.zis.
… do you really think that anyone have that much jets for Ukraine and just waits to give them to Ukraine…?! That will be just a fiasco, if not operated by long perion trained pilots from west… and that will leed to something much bigger and can provoke more agressive reaction… your realiity is totally insane, if you count on hundreds of F16s… why not better asking F35s, thousands of them…?! That will change your war for sure…
You are not aware of the issue, and completely unaware.
About 5 thousand F16 were produced.
For the sake of accuracy, 2,145 F-16s are operational across the world. See page 10 of this report:
https://www.flightglobal.com/reports/2024-world-air-forces-directory/156008.article (https://www.flightglobal.com/reports/2024-world-air-forces-directory/156008.article)

The remainder, up to a total of ~4,600, are damaged and out of service.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 09, 2024, 09:44
… anyway, you should ask for thousand of most modern aircrafts… that will change direction of this war, for sure… after that, ask for 1000 bilions of $ for anything you can imagine… and you should call all of us, your stock friends, to celebrate - because of amazing ideas we gave you… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 02:31
Statements by famous Russian writers and poets about the Russian people.

Alexey Nikolaevich Tolstoy, a Russian and Soviet writer, public figure from the Tolstoy family, said the following about his country:

Muscovy is the Rus' of the taiga, Mongolian, wild, bestial, - Alexei Tolstoy.


Mikhail Yuryevich Lermontov - Russian poet, prose writer, playwright, artist wrote a very famous poem and here are the first lines that accurately describe the entire Russian people:

Farewell, unwashed Russia, Land of slaves, land of masters, - Lermontov

Michael Bulgakov

Mikhail Afanasyevich Bulgakov, a Russian writer of the Soviet period, playwright, theater director and actor, said the following:

Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains - Mikhail Bulgakov.

Maksim Gorky

Maxim Gorky - Russian and Soviet writer, poet, prose writer, playwright, founder of the literature of socialist realism, wrote:

The most important sign of the success of the Russian people is their sadistic cruelty - Maxim Gorky

Turgenev

Ivan Sergeevich Turgenev - Russian realist writer, poet, publicist, playwright, prose writer, translator:

The Russian is the greatest and most insolent liar in the whole world - Ivan Turgenev.

Dostoevsky

Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky, a Russian writer, thinker, philosopher and publicist, said the most relevant words about the Russian people:

The people who wander around Europe and are looking for what can be destroyed, destroyed just for the sake of entertainment - Fyodor Dostoevsky.

Shmelev

Ivan Sergeevich Shmelev is a Russian writer, publicist, and Orthodox thinker. From the Moscow merchant family of the Shmelevs said:

Russians are a people who hate freedom, deify slavery, love shackles on their hands and feet, love their bloody despots, do not feel any beauty, are dirty physically and morally, have lived for centuries in darkness, obscurantism, and have not lifted a finger towards anything human , but always ready to enslave, to oppress everyone and everything, the whole world. This is not a people, but a historical curse of humanity - I.S. Shmelev.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 02:42
General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

The total combat losses russia from 24.02.2012 to 10.04.24 were approimately 450080 Russian orcs.

(https://scontent.flwo4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/434644668_772005221779225_724586201352884632_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=nnaWHJcD_7IAb4c1S5l&_nc_ht=scontent.flwo4-1.fna&oh=00_AfD4ADMCJli6NLtpZWYwlFR9SF1oim5NWNrxmuWXD5Cp_A&oe=661C01C7)

 8) 8) 8)

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 05:49
… I don’t understand why do you hate Russian people…?! Are you having problem with them…?! Dehumanization you are forcing is simply vulgar and primitive… your ideology was beaten hard by whole world, after WW2… what should Poles think about your people after Easter Galician massacres in WW2…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 05:55
Poles and Ukrainians in daily contacts
https://library.fes.de/pdf-files/bueros/ukraine/18309.pdf
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 05:57
Zelenskyy blasts Scholz’s reason for not sending German Taurus missiles
https://www.politico.eu/article/zelenskyy-blasts-scholzs-reason-for-not-sending-german-taurus-missiles/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/zelenskyy-blasts-scholzs-reason-for-not-sending-german-taurus-missiles/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 05:58
EU court removes Russian oligarchs Fridman, Aven from sanctions list
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-court-removes-russian-oligarchs-mikhail-fridman-petr-aven-from-sanctions-list/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-court-removes-russian-oligarchs-mikhail-fridman-petr-aven-from-sanctions-list/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 05:59
… I don’t understand why do you hate Russian people…?!
??? ::) ::) ::)
Really, and why the entire civilized world does not like Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 06:01
EU court removes Russian oligarchs Fridman, Aven from sanctions list
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-court-removes-russian-oligarchs-mikhail-fridman-petr-aven-from-sanctions-list/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-court-removes-russian-oligarchs-mikhail-fridman-petr-aven-from-sanctions-list/)
Europarasites break through the bottom.  >:(
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 06:03
A group of Ukrainian refugees, dissatisfied with the Polish authorities' policy of supplying Ukrainian goods and weak military aid, organized an act of retaliation and set fire to the Farmacol pharmaceutical warehouse in Katowice on the evening of April 8
https://pravda-en.com/world/2024/04/10/422022.html
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 06:04
EU court removes Russian oligarchs Fridman, Aven from sanctions list
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-court-removes-russian-oligarchs-mikhail-fridman-petr-aven-from-sanctions-list/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-court-removes-russian-oligarchs-mikhail-fridman-petr-aven-from-sanctions-list/)
Europarasites break through the bottom.  >:(
… looks like times are changing…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 06:05
Zelenskyy blasts Scholz’s reason for not sending German Taurus missiles
https://www.politico.eu/article/zelenskyy-blasts-scholzs-reason-for-not-sending-german-taurus-missiles/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/zelenskyy-blasts-scholzs-reason-for-not-sending-german-taurus-missiles/)
"“I always use logic in my steps, in my words and conclusions,” he said. “And I just don't understand the logic behind it when, for example, one of our partners has weapons that Ukraine needs today in order to survive. And I don't understand why they won't provide it to us.”"

Everything is very simple.
1. Scholz is a follower of KGB agent Merkel.
2. I have already written in this thread that Germany does not even want to produce these missiles, while the German weapons manufacturer is directly asking: should I make missiles for Ukraine or not?
3. Scholz is preparing Germany for occupation by Russian orcs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 06:06
EU court removes Russian oligarchs Fridman, Aven from sanctions list
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-court-removes-russian-oligarchs-mikhail-fridman-petr-aven-from-sanctions-list/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-court-removes-russian-oligarchs-mikhail-fridman-petr-aven-from-sanctions-list/)
Europarasites break through the bottom.  >:(
… looks like times are changing…
Europarasites have always been like this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 06:07
A group of Ukrainian refugees, dissatisfied with the Polish authorities' policy of supplying Ukrainian goods and weak military aid, organized an act of retaliation and set fire to the Farmacol pharmaceutical warehouse in Katowice on the evening of April 8
https://pravda-en.com/world/2024/04/10/422022.html
I think this is KGB propaganda. The source is not trustworthy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 06:08
… why you think about them as parasites if you are asking help…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 06:11
… and this…?!
https://t.me/vorposte/54830
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 06:19
… why you think about them as parasites if you are asking help…?!
I write the truth, and only the truth.
I don’t think that Ukraine is asking for anything. Ukraine it is saying what it needs.
As for Scholz and Germany, some military experts believe that the reluctance to transfer missiles to Ukraine is a consequence of the cowardly policies of the US Democrats and Biden. Democrats are friends of Russian Na.zis. The United States does not provide Ukraine with a missile with a range of 300-500 km, and therefore Germany does not provide missiles either. This suggests that because of US democrats, the security of all of Europe is at risk. I am sure that with the Republicans coming to power, Scholz will very quickly send missiles to Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 06:24
… and this…?!
https://t.me/vorposte/54830
This is a Russian Na.zi channel. Everything that is published there is lies and propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 06:26
… if Republicans or any of their representatives win, be prepared to wars end…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 06:27
… and this…?!
https://t.me/vorposte/54830
This is a Russian Na.zi channel. Everything that is published there is lies and propaganda.
… have you ever been in Lavov…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 06:36
Russians intensify attacks on Bakhmut front, with 36 combat clashes there – Ukraine's General Staff
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/10/7450522/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/10/7450522/index.amp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 06:51
… and this…?!
https://t.me/vorposte/54830
This is a Russian Na.zi channel. Everything that is published there is lies and propaganda.
… have you ever been in Lavov…?!
There is no city with this name in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 06:53
Russians intensify attacks on Bakhmut front, with 36 combat clashes there – Ukraine's General Staff
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/10/7450522/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/10/7450522/index.amp)
Have you decided to publish daily reports of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine here?
Yes, the crimes of Russian terrorists and Na.zis are being documented.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2024, 07:12

Michael Bulgakov

Mikhail Afanasyevich Bulgakov, a Russian writer of the Soviet period, playwright, theater director and actor, said the following:
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains - Mikhail Bulgakov.

You said you don't read the Ukrainian "traitor" Bulgakov, and now you are quoting him.

"Bulgakov (The Master and Margarita)"
This is a shame for Ukraine. It is not read in Ukraine. Only Russian orcs read it. He is a traitor of the Ukrainian literature.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 07:44
… and now he doesn’t know even about cities in Ukraine, while being selective in answers…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 07:50

Michael Bulgakov

Mikhail Afanasyevich Bulgakov, a Russian writer of the Soviet period, playwright, theater director and actor, said the following:
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains - Mikhail Bulgakov.

You said you don't read the Ukrainian "traitor" Bulgakov, and now you are quoting him.

"Bulgakov (The Master and Margarita)"
This is a shame for Ukraine. It is not read in Ukraine. Only Russian orcs read it. He is a traitor of the Ukrainian literature.
1. I quote the opinions of Russian writers about the Russians themselves.
2. I didn’t write that I personally haven’t read Bulgakov. You need to know your enemies, so I had to read.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 07:52
… and now he doesn’t know even about cities in Ukraine, while being selective in answers…
I can recommend that you come to Ukraine and try to walk through the streets wearing Na.zi symbols.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 07:55
With recruits dwindling, Ukraine is urged to mobilise women - The Times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/with-recruits-dwindling-ukraine-urged-to-mobilise-women-6bz929qvq (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/with-recruits-dwindling-ukraine-urged-to-mobilise-women-6bz929qvq)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 08:23
With recruits dwindling, Ukraine is urged to mobilise women - The Times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/with-recruits-dwindling-ukraine-urged-to-mobilise-women-6bz929qvq (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/with-recruits-dwindling-ukraine-urged-to-mobilise-women-6bz929qvq)
This is all lies, nonsense and reeks of pro-Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2024, 08:31

Michael Bulgakov

Mikhail Afanasyevich Bulgakov, a Russian writer of the Soviet period, playwright, theater director and actor, said the following:
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains - Mikhail Bulgakov.

You said you don't read the Ukrainian "traitor" Bulgakov, and now you are quoting him.

"Bulgakov (The Master and Margarita)"
This is a shame for Ukraine. It is not read in Ukraine. Only Russian orcs read it. He is a traitor of the Ukrainian literature.
1. I quote the opinions of Russian writers about the Russians themselves.
2. I didn’t write that I personally haven’t read Bulgakov. You need to know your enemies, so I had to read.
Interesting plot twist! So Bulgakov is read in Ukraine after all, by what I assume are not russian orcs, right? You swallowed your words again.
Moreover, now you even trust and promote russian writers and Ukrainian "traitors".
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 08:32
… everything nowdays is KGB propaganda…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 09:21
So Bulgakov is read in Ukraine after all
No.

Moreover, now you even trust and promote russian writers and Ukrainian "traitors".
No.

I think your IQ has dropped very much or you started working for the Russians. This was to be expected; US Democrats are friends of the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 09:58
Russen-Ansturm auf drei Städte im Osten
https://m.bild.de/video/clip/news-ausland/bild-lagezentrum-russen-ansturm-auf-drei-staedte-im-osten-87814676.bildMobile.html

… after Orcs, Stoker will now see Turtles…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 10:05
Russian Writer Bulgakov Deemed Symbol of ‘Russian Imperialist Policy
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30550 (https://www.kyivpost.com/post/30550)

… it’s shame how people can change their opinion by time…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 10:13
Mayor, city council secretary exposed on receiving $30,000 bribe
https://en.lb.ua/news/2024/04/10/28340_prosecutor_generals_office_dnipro.html

…. parasites are everywhere…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 10:16
The occupiers employ a new tactic in the area of Chasiv Yar  https://tsn.ua/en/amp/ato/the-occupiers-employ-a-new-tactic-in-the-area-of-chasiv-yar-analysts-2554834.html
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 10:30
David Cameron seemingly fails in bid to persuade Trump on Ukraine aid
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/09/david-cameron-trump-ukraine-aid
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 10:54
David Cameron seemingly fails in bid to persuade Trump on Ukraine aid
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/09/david-cameron-trump-ukraine-aid
He doesn't need to convince Trump, but Biden. For Biden to provide a clear plan to help Ukraine and justify what weapons are needed for this. There is no need to steal US taxpayers' money for unknown purposes.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 10:59
… yes, he probably got wrong address or phone number…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 11:00
David Cameron seemingly fails in bid to persuade Trump on Ukraine aid
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/09/david-cameron-trump-ukraine-aid
He doesn't need to convince Trump, but Biden. For Biden to provide a clear plan to help Ukraine and justify what weapons are needed for this. There is no need to steal US taxpayers' money for unknown purposes.
… just for standard, known purposes… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2024, 11:07
So Bulgakov is read in Ukraine after all
No.

First, you say that Bulgakov is not read in Ukraine because he is a "traitor."

But then you forget about it, and when confronted with your own words, you say, as a "representative" Ukrainian (another unfounded claim of yours), that you read Bulgakov because you have to know your "enemies."
Now you swallow your words again and say, once more, that Bulgakov is not read in Ukraine.

Right, right... he is not read in Ukraine, except by "representative" Ukrainians like you, because they have to know their "enemy".
Right, right...

You are so confused!

PS. It's disheartening to observe how individuals with IQs below 85 perpetually reside in the present moment. The past and future remain nebulous to them, rendering them incapable of formulating coherent, deterministic thoughts.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 13:13
Zero Talent, I see no point in commenting on your trolling. Every day you strain yourself and try to squeeze out trolling. You already sound very funny and don't look smart.
I already wrote to you that I prefer constructive dialogue.
As for me personally, I also read Hitler in my time.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2024, 13:25
Zero Talent, I see no point in commenting on your trolling. Every day you strain yourself and try to squeeze out trolling. You already sound very funny and don't look smart.
I already wrote to you that I prefer constructive dialogue.
As for me personally, I also read Hitler in my time.

Bottom line, despite your denial, Ukrainians do read Bulgakov, and they even use his words to make a point.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 13:41
Ukrainians do read Bulgakov, and they even use his words to make a point.
???
Why did you decide so? I didn't say that.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2024, 14:10
Ukrainians do read Bulgakov, and they even use his words to make a point.
???
Why did you decide so? I didn't say that.  ;D ;D ;D

Read below 👇, but read carefully, and try to understand what a self proclaimed "representative" Ukrainian wrote a few hours ago;

2. I didn’t write that I personally haven’t read Bulgakov. You need to know your enemies, so I had to read.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 10, 2024, 15:02
Ukrainians do read Bulgakov, and they even use his words to make a point.
???
Why did you decide so? I didn't say that.  ;D ;D ;D

Read below 👇, but read carefully, and try to understand what a self proclaimed "representative" Ukrainian wrote a few hours ago;

2. I didn’t write that I personally haven’t read Bulgakov. You need to know your enemies, so I had to read.
Your logic is complete ravings.  ;D
I recommend that you visit a psychiatrist.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2024, 15:52
Ukrainians do read Bulgakov, and they even use his words to make a point.
???
Why did you decide so? I didn't say that.  ;D ;D ;D

Read below 👇, but read carefully, and try to understand what a self proclaimed "representative" Ukrainian wrote a few hours ago;

2. I didn’t write that I personally haven’t read Bulgakov. You need to know your enemies, so I had to read.
Your logic is complete ravings.  ;D
I recommend that you visit a psychiatrist.  ;D ;D ;D

Individuals with an IQ below 85 have a hard time comprehending that a single counterexample is sufficient to prove that a statement or a conjecture is false, let alone when the counterexample is their own self.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 10, 2024, 17:43
My suspicion is therefore confirmed!

I had already suspected several times that he was a Russian troll.

If Ukrainians don't read Bulgakov, but stocker2014 has read Bulgakov, he can't be Ukrainian. This is simple logic that must be immediately clear to all readers and especially to someone who claims to have studied mathematics.

The second possibility is that Ukrainians do read Bulgakov. Then again, stocker2014 would have written nonsense - once again, as so often.

There is no third possibility.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 10, 2024, 18:00
Russians intensify attacks on Bakhmut front, with 36 combat clashes there – Ukraine's General Staff
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/10/7450522/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/10/7450522/index.amp)

Are you happy about all the news you link to here?

Are you surprised that there are Ukrainians who hate the Russians?

Does it make sense to add fuel to the fire by posting all this?

I think that if your country was attacked and so many civilists were killed, you would detest such news from the other side.

I don't agree with a lot of what stocker2014 writes either. Especially not with his black and white thinking.

But Russia attacked Ukraine and not the other way around! That's why I also disagree with a large part of your posts!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2024, 18:36
I don't agree with a lot of what stocker2014 writes either. Especially not with his black and white thinking.

But Russia attacked Ukraine and not the other way around! That's why I also disagree with a large part of your posts!

Same here!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 10, 2024, 19:11
… my country was attacked, bombarded and destroyed for months… and lot of civilians were killed… I do know what war is and hope you will never know… but, when some people force one side, in this case attacked one, while dehumanize other nation… that is something that bothers me… I’m sorry if have caused any inconvenience…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 10, 2024, 21:08
Bulgakov was born in Kiev and he wrote one of the most highly acclaimed books of the 20th century, The Master and Margarita. Am I missing something?

Interestingly though, as befitting this thread, he did have a very relevant quote:

There is no greater misfortune in the world than the loss of reason. ~ Mikhail Bulgakov

 ;)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 10, 2024, 23:12
Bulgakov was born in Kiev and he wrote one of the most highly acclaimed books of the 20th century, The Master and Margarita. Am I missing something?

Interestingly though, as befitting this thread, he did have a very relevant quote:

There is no greater misfortune in the world than the loss of reason. ~ Mikhail Bulgakov

 ;)


Bulgakov was mentioned earlier in this thread, and yesterday, stoker attributed him a quote describing russians in a negative way:
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains

Since he is renegaded by Ukrainians for his pro-russian and anti-Ukrainian stances, all this looked strange to me.
What was also strange is that on March 8th, I received a WhatsApp message containing exactly the same quotes and a few more. The message was forwarded multiple times, and it was not in English. Someone actually did a pretty good job with a translation for a different audience.

So I tried to search for the origin of Bulgakov's quote, but I didn't find it.
What I found was an article claiming that all quotes were made up or taken out of context.

Therefore, it is hard to know the truth, and this viral list may very well be a clever piece of propaganda.

This is why I would challenge our expert in russian literature to share the origin of those quotes—the book, newspaper article, etc.

Meanwhile, we should all take all of that with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 03:19
Bernard-Henri Lévy, interview (BHL)

"The third world is already underway. But European leaders, like in Hitler's time, deny reality"

- And what about the Third World War?

- So we are already here! The third world war is already underway.

What is happening now is the Third World War!

We are inside it, with Russia, with Iran, with China, with North Korea, with Israel and Hamas, which operates with the support of Putin, with the grand alliance between radical Islamism and Russian Orthodoxy.

All processes began to move. We are at the epicenter of this war.

- Why do Western politicians constantly repeat this? After all, they must realize that the great war has already begun! What makes them deny it?

– Munich spirit! Then, in 1938, 1939, until the beginning of 1940, European leaders denied reality.

Denial of reality is generally a very common behavior for humanity, especially in the Western world.

https://youtu.be/qqbVooNmzr0 (https://youtu.be/qqbVooNmzr0)
_________

Europarasites! You idiots!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 11, 2024, 03:36
… write everything on paper and analyze it again… do not hurry with conclusions, because..  something went wrong…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 03:38
If Ukrainians don't read Bulgakov, but stocker2014 has read Bulgakov, he can't be Ukrainian. This is simple logic that must be immediately clear to all readers and especially to someone who claims to have studied mathematics.
This is wretched and primitive logic. It is not surprising to hear this from a person who could not answer the question in what year the Second World War began.
Wilm, your logic is at the level of a 7 year old boy. You should get a job in a kindergarten, you will find many friends there.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 03:41
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains
Yes, US Democratic trolls don't like to read the truth. You don’t agree with this phrase and the description of Russians?
This is not surprising, the democrat trolls deny reality and are friends of the Russian trolls.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 03:47
https://twitter.com/GLandsbergis/status/1778110227599982992

Minister of Foreign Affairs, Member of Parliament of Lithuania, Chairman of TS-LKD, Homeland Union Party of Lithuania.

In WWII the Allies bombed Nazi Germany's oil depots as a high priority military target. That's the tweet.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GK0d028XkAEq3Wo?format=jpg&name=small)

_________

US Democrats oppose the liquidation of Russian oil refineries that are being destroyed by Ukraine. US Democrats = friends of Russian Na.zis.

US Democrats and Biden - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 04:36
 8) 8) 8)

Trump’s Eclipse Ad.

https://youtu.be/g9AxHjZBnWs (https://youtu.be/g9AxHjZBnWs)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 11, 2024, 06:43
Bulgakov was born in Kiev and he wrote one of the most highly acclaimed books of the 20th century, The Master and Margarita. Am I missing something?

Interestingly though, as befitting this thread, he did have a very relevant quote:

There is no greater misfortune in the world than the loss of reason. ~ Mikhail Bulgakov

 ;)


Bulgakov was mentioned earlier in this thread, and yesterday, stoker attributed him a quote describing russians in a negative way:
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains

Since he is renegaded by Ukrainians for his pro-russian and anti-Ukrainian stances, all this looked strange to me.
What was also strange is that on March 8th, I received a WhatsApp message containing exactly the same quotes and a few more. The message was forwarded multiple times, and it was not in English. Someone actually did a pretty good job with a translation for a different audience.

So I tried to search for the origin of Bulgakov's quote, but I didn't find it.
What I found was an article claiming that all quotes were made up or taken out of context.

Therefore, it is hard to know the truth, and this viral list may very well be a clever piece of propaganda.

This is why I would challenge our expert in russian literature to share the origin of those quotes—the book, newspaper article, etc.

Meanwhile, we should all take all of that with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the explanation. I was confused because Bulgakov was Ukranian and I didn't know about the anti-Ukranian sentiment.  I found this:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/dec/31/mikhail-bulgakov-museum-kyiv-calls-to-close (https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/dec/31/mikhail-bulgakov-museum-kyiv-calls-to-close)

It does say however, 'The museum’s director, Lyudmila Gubianuri, has also hit back against criticism, calling Bulgakov “a man of his time”. “He was born and lived in the Russian empire. Bulgakov had an inherent imperial mindset, but neither he nor his family were ever Ukrainophobes,” she stressed. “Bulgakov did not believe in the reality of an independent Ukraine, like quite a lot of people at that time.”'

I am pro-Ukraine but I guess the question remains, can great art or literature survive changes in time and politics?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 07:19
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains
Yes, US Democratic trolls don't like to read the truth. You don’t agree with this phrase and the description of Russians?
This is not surprising, the democrat trolls deny reality and are friends of the Russian trolls.
 ;D ;D ;D

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with the description.
It's about truth and logic.
It's about you being unable to grasp elementary logic.
It's about you being caught again with your pants down, in public.

I can't know for sure, but it is quite plausible that your list of quotes is fake, given the fact that it spreads in the same form in different languages across social media.
Whoever gave you that list disguised their opinions as quotes from famous Russian writers to make them seem more credible.

Bulgakov and others on that list never said what you, in your gullibility, attributed to them.

I can bet that you will be unable to show us the origin of their so-called "quotes" because they do not exist. They're most likely fake, made up, fake news, propaganda...

A bit of advice: If you can't think for yourself, stick to journalism from reputable sources. Don't post viral social media "news" unless you want to continue confirming your IQ level.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 07:43
Bulgakov ... he nor ... were ever Ukrainophobe,
It's a lie.

“Bulgakov did not believe in the reality of an independent Ukraine, like quite a lot of people at that time.”'[/i]
The underlined is a lie and Russian propaganda.

I am pro-Ukraine but I guess the question remains, can great art or literature survive changes in time and politics?
His books will be used to kindle stoves, like many other books by Russian authors. If a Ukrainian respects himself, he will not read books by a Russian writer.

All this “great” Russian art has always been and is being used by Russian orcs as a weapon against civilized humanity.
All Russian cultural centers should be closed and prohibited. All Russian literature should be banned.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 07:47
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains
Yes, US Democratic trolls don't like to read the truth. You don’t agree with this phrase and the description of Russians?
This is not surprising, the democrat trolls deny reality and are friends of the Russian trolls.
 ;D ;D ;D

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with the description.
It's about truth and logic.
It's about you being unable to grasp elementary logic.
It's about you being caught again with your pants down, in public.

I can't know for sure, but it is quite plausible that your list of quotes is fake, given the fact that it spreads in the same form in different languages across social media.
Whoever gave you that list disguised their opinions as quotes from famous Russian writers to make them seem more credible.

Bulgakov and others on that list never said what you, in your gullibility, attributed to them.

I can bet that you will be unable to show us the origin of their so-called "quotes" because they do not exist. They're most likely fake, made up, fake news, propaganda...

A bit of advice: If you can't think for yourself, stick to journalism from reputable sources. Don't post viral social media "news" unless you want to continue confirming your IQ level.
Your text meets all the requirements of Russian propaganda. This is exactly what all Russian putin trolls write. If the Russians are not paying you yet, contact them, you are losing money. Why are you working for Russian Na.zis for free?
 ;D ;D ;D

Although perhaps the Democrats pay you well and have given you the task of defending Russian Na.zis.
You have no arguments, which means you are a troll.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 07:56
Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 08:55
Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains
Yes, US Democratic trolls don't like to read the truth. You don’t agree with this phrase and the description of Russians?
This is not surprising, the democrat trolls deny reality and are friends of the Russian trolls.
 ;D ;D ;D

It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with the description.
It's about truth and logic.
It's about you being unable to grasp elementary logic.
It's about you being caught again with your pants down, in public.

I can't know for sure, but it is quite plausible that your list of quotes is fake, given the fact that it spreads in the same form in different languages across social media.
Whoever gave you that list disguised their opinions as quotes from famous Russian writers to make them seem more credible.

Bulgakov and others on that list never said what you, in your gullibility, attributed to them.

I can bet that you will be unable to show us the origin of their so-called "quotes" because they do not exist. They're most likely fake, made up, fake news, propaganda...

A bit of advice: If you can't think for yourself, stick to journalism from reputable sources. Don't post viral social media "news" unless you want to continue confirming your IQ level.
Your text meets all the requirements of Russian propaganda. This is exactly what all Russian putin trolls write. If the Russians are not paying you yet, contact them, you are losing money. Why are you working for Russian Na.zis for free?
 ;D ;D ;D

Although perhaps the Democrats pay you well and have given you the task of defending Russian Na.zis.
You have no arguments, which means you are a troll.

You can't show us the origin of these quotes because most likely they are made up. "Most likely", they are unnecessary, stupid propaganda.
As I said, I spent time trying to identify the source of these quotes, but I found nothing.
Since you seem to be the "expert" in such comparative russian literature essays, we need your help.

What you fail to comprehend is that Ukraine does not need fake news to prove that its struggle is justified.

All intelligent people understand that russia is an aggressive, imperial, colonial power invading an independent and sovereign country.

By posting fake news, you are insulting their intelligence and harming Ukraine's interests, in addition to making yourself look foolish.

Ukraine is on the right side of history and deserves to be helped and supported by the entire democratic world in its struggle to repel the brutal russian invasion. Fake news and propaganda lies spread by Ukrainians will only erode trust and act against their interests.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 09:28
Zero Talent, you will not find this text in Ukrainian language.

I’ll give you the link right away on Lermontov:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farewell,_Unwashed_Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farewell,_Unwashed_Russia)

"In the 20th century, the poem received a rise in popularity.[14] A number of literary critics have expressed doubts about the authorship of the poem.[15][16][17][18] In 2017, an international round table dedicated to the issue of authorship was assembled, which included more than twenty leading Lermontovedians. As a result of the round table, a resolution was adopted that confirmed the authorship.[19][20][21]"
______

I also want to say that Russian orcs will deny the involvement of their writers in such texts. But the behavior of Russians over the past few hundred years leaves no doubt that these statements are true.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 10:52
Zero Talent, you will not find this text in Ukrainian language.

I’ll give you the link right away on Lermontov:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farewell,_Unwashed_Russia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farewell,_Unwashed_Russia)

"In the 20th century, the poem received a rise in popularity.[14] A number of literary critics have expressed doubts about the authorship of the poem.[15][16][17][18] In 2017, an international round table dedicated to the issue of authorship was assembled, which included more than twenty leading Lermontovedians. As a result of the round table, a resolution was adopted that confirmed the authorship.[19][20][21]"
______

I also want to say that Russian orcs will deny the involvement of their writers in such texts. But the behavior of Russians over the past few hundred years leaves no doubt that these statements are true.

This is why all of it is deceptive: a bit of truth sprinkled on a sea of lies to make them believable—straight from the propaganda playbook.

Dostoyevsky's quote is also taken out of context: Dostoyevsky critically reflects on the European view of russians. Below is the entire paragraph, which includes this mistranslated quote you published:
"The people who wander around Europe and are looking for what can be destroyed, destroyed just for the sake of entertainment".

For this, many Europeans look at us mockingly and haughtily: they don’t understand why we should be deniers in someone else’s business, they positively deprive us of the right of European negation - on the grounds that they do not recognize us as belonging to civilization.
They see in us rather barbarians, wandering around Europe and rejoicing that something, somewhere can be destroyed - to destroy only for the sake of destruction, for the pleasure of just watching how all this will fall apart, like a horde of savages, like the Huns, ready to rush into ancient Rome and destroy the shrine, without even any idea of ​​​​what treasure they are destroying


Please go ahead and try to provide examples of when and where Tolstoy, Bulgakov, Gorky, Turgenev, or Shmelov said what that propaganda list attributed to them.
I have strong doubts that you will be able to come up with anything.

Because that list is most likely fake, made-up, unnecessary propaganda targeting gullible people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 11:56
Because that list is most likely fake, made-up, unnecessary propaganda targeting gullible people.
I wrote that you are a good lawyer for Russian orcs. What you do is called the work of a lawyer. But as we all know, very often a lawyer defends evil and lies.
Regarding all these true quotes about Russians, if you need proof, contact the Russian opposition if you find normal Russians among them. Contact these people who have not only the works of the authors, but also the correspondence of these authors and the statements of witnesses who communicated with these authors.
I see that you have already read a lot of Russian propaganda, where the Russians deny everything.

All these quotes truthfully reflect Russians and this is how Russians should be understood and seen.

These quotes true about Russians. I will repeat my post for readers once again.

And even if no one knew these quotes or they didn’t exist, any Ukrainian will tell you the same thing about Russians. And not only Ukrainians, but also any people who are or were under Russian occupation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 12:04
Statements by famous Russian writers and poets about the Russian people.

Alexey Nikolaevich Tolstoy, a Russian and Soviet writer, public figure from the Tolstoy family, said the following about his country:

Muscovy is the Rus' of the taiga, Mongolian, wild, bestial, - Alexei Tolstoy.


Mikhail Yuryevich Lermontov - Russian poet, prose writer, playwright, artist wrote a very famous poem and here are the first lines that accurately describe the entire Russian people:

Farewell, unwashed Russia, Land of slaves, land of masters, - Lermontov

Michael Bulgakov

Mikhail Afanasyevich Bulgakov, a Russian writer of the Soviet period, playwright, theater director and actor, said the following:

Not the people, but brute, boor, a wild horde, murderers and villains - Mikhail Bulgakov.

Maksim Gorky

Maxim Gorky - Russian and Soviet writer, poet, prose writer, playwright, founder of the literature of socialist realism, wrote:

The most important sign of the success of the Russian people is their sadistic cruelty - Maxim Gorky

Turgenev

Ivan Sergeevich Turgenev - Russian realist writer, poet, publicist, playwright, prose writer, translator:

The Russian is the greatest and most insolent liar in the whole world - Ivan Turgenev.

Dostoevsky

Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky, a Russian writer, thinker, philosopher and publicist, said the most relevant words about the Russian people:

The people who wander around Europe and are looking for what can be destroyed, destroyed just for the sake of entertainment - Fyodor Dostoevsky.

Shmelev

Ivan Sergeevich Shmelev is a Russian writer, publicist, and Orthodox thinker. From the Moscow merchant family of the Shmelevs said:

Russians are a people who hate freedom, deify slavery, love shackles on their hands and feet, love their bloody despots, do not feel any beauty, are dirty physically and morally, have lived for centuries in darkness, obscurantism, and have not lifted a finger towards anything human , but always ready to enslave, to oppress everyone and everything, the whole world. This is not a people, but a historical curse of humanity - I.S. Shmelev.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 12:20
Because that list is most likely fake, made-up, unnecessary propaganda targeting gullible people.
I wrote that you are a good lawyer for Russian orcs. What you do is called the work of a lawyer. But as we all know, very often a lawyer defends evil and lies.
Regarding all these true quotes about Russians, if you need proof, contact the Russian opposition if you find normal Russians among them. Contact these people who have not only the works of the authors, but also the correspondence of these authors and the statements of witnesses who communicated with these authors.
I see that you have already read a lot of Russian propaganda, where the Russians deny everything.

All these quotes truthfully reflect Russians and this is how Russians should be understood and seen.

These quotes true about Russians. I will repeat my post for readers once again.

And even if no one knew these quotes, any Ukrainian will tell you the same thing about Russians. And not only Ukrainians, but also any people who are or were under Russian occupation.

Wrong. I only defend the truth.
I am 100% behind Ukraine in its struggle to repel the unprovoked russian invasion.

I have donated my own money to Ukrainian causes, and I believe that all democratic countries, including the US, must do more to support Ukraine's attempt to recover its lost territories, including Crimea.

But Ukraine doesn't have to use propaganda to gather this support. It is counterproductive. The truth is enough.

As for these fake quotes, you can always post them as your personal opinion. I can definitely understand the anger, but please don't lie that they belong to those russian writers.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 12:41
Zero Talent!
1. You are not 100% sure that these quotes do not belong to these authors. So stop defending the Russians.
2. Similar quotes could have been written by the authors in personal correspondence. Usually such correspondence is published in a small edition. And I give you 100% that the KGB did everything to ensure that copies of this correspondence were destroyed. If someone has a copy of the correspondence, it is better for this person to remain silent so as not to become a target for liquidation by the KGB.
Therefore, be glad that this information is published on the Internet. And taking into account the fact that this information 100% correctly characterizes Russians, I am sure that Russian authors could also write this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 12:51
I have donated my own money to Ukrainian causes
https://prytulafoundation.org/en/

Send money here.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 11, 2024, 12:56

Wrong. I only defend the truth.
I am 100% behind Ukraine in its struggle to repel the unprovoked russian invasion.

I have donated my own money to Ukrainian causes, and I believe that all democratic countries, including the US, must do more to support Ukraine's attempt to recover its lost territories, including Crimea.

But Ukraine doesn't have to use propaganda to gather this support. It is counterproductive. The truth is enough.

As for these fake quotes, you can always post them as your personal opinion. I can definitely understand the anger, but please don't lie that they belong to those russian writers.

zero, where do you get your patience and above all your objectivity from?  ;)

As you rightly said, this guy is constantly standing here with his pants down, embarrassing himself and doing Ukraine a great disservice.
At no point does he show any understanding or admitted a mistake, when things get tight, he gets insulting or personal.
For over a hundred pages I've only seen asocial behavior here, incapable of having a discussion at eye level.

Because I'm increasingly losing my own netiquette and objectivity in the face of all this nonsense and gutter language, which is in no way expedient, I've put the guy on "ignore" and left the discussion with him personally.

But thank you for your research and comments, which make it worthwhile to keep checking the thread.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 13:00
I've put the guy on "ignore" and left the discussion with him personally.
Great, at least there’s one less hater.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 11, 2024, 13:14
… theme evolute into something totally parhological…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 13:57
Zero Talent!
1. You are not 100% sure that these quotes do not belong to these authors. So stop defending the Russians.

Of course, I can't be 100% sure because I haven't read all of these authors, and I could not find the above-mentioned quotes anywhere.

But neither did you, obviously. You have no proof that these quotes are real, and yet you have no problem publishing unverified information.

Once more, I am not defending the russians; I am defending the truth. You better do the same if you don't want to lose whatever is left of your credibility.

My advice: Stick to sources that can be verified, sources from reputable, trustworthy journalists, or restrict yourself to your own opinions without attributing them to someone else.

My donations go to Nova Ukraine: https://novaukraine.org/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 14:05
Zero Talent!
1. You are not 100% sure that these quotes do not belong to these authors. So stop defending the Russians.

Of course, I can't be 100% sure because I haven't read all of these authors, and I could not find the above-mentioned quotes anywhere.

But neither did you, obviously. You have no proof that these quotes are real, and yet you have no problem publishing unverified information.

Once more, I am not defending the russians; I am defending the truth. You better do the same if you don't want to lose whatever is left of your credibility.

My advice: Stick to sources that can be verified, sources from reputable, trustworthy journalists, or restrict yourself to your own opinions without attributing them to someone else.

My donations go to Nova Ukraine: https://novaukraine.org/
My sources of information are normal. I read these authors, the writing style was followed. If you want to be a journalist, contact experts to show you paper media. Demanding on a forum so that you publications published 100 or more years ago is stupid and smacks of trolling in support of the Russians.
Your opinion of me doesn't matter to me. Thousands of people besides you are reading this topic, but you are the only one doing trolling.

novaukraine something small, I’ve never heard of it. The Pritula Foundation is a well-known and trusted organization in Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 14:09
Dmytro Kuleba
@DmytroKuleba
Russia fired over 80 missiles and drones at Ukraine overnight, primarily targeting critical civilian infrastructure.

Six of them were ballistic missiles. Ukraine remains the only country in the world facing ballistic strikes. There is currently no other place for "Patriots" to be.

I am confident that if those on whom their provision to Ukraine depends spent at least one night in Kharkiv all necessary decisions would have been made quickly. And I would be ready to go together with them.

https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1778327733619015890 (https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1778327733619015890)
____

Democrats and Europarasites - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 14:15
KYIV — Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba wants the West’s extra, idle Patriot air defense batteries. And he’s not asking nicely anymore.

Kuleba said his team has identified more than 100 available Patriots — some neighboring countries have more than one battery guarding a port or airfield, he said. Zelensky has said Ukraine needs 26 to create a total air shield over Ukraine, but Kuleba is initially focused on obtaining seven as quickly as possible.

That would cover Ukraine’s largest cities and leave at least one free to be closer to the battlefield, where Russian aviation has been punishing Ukraine’s troops on the ground using guided bombs.

Kuleba said he “struggles to understand” the resistance from some countries to transferring at least one of their systems to Ukraine.

During a recent meeting in Brussels marking NATO’s 75th anniversary, Kuleba harshly told those in attendance: “I’m sorry to spoil the birthday party, but who can believe that the mightiest military alliance in the world cannot find seven batteries of Patriots to provide them to the only country in the world that is fighting ballistic attacks every day?”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/10/ukraine-dmytro-kuleba-patriot-systems/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/04/10/ukraine-dmytro-kuleba-patriot-systems/)
________

Democrats, Biden and Europarasites - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 11, 2024, 14:19
… there were videos in which are Gerans being hit with AA rockets… do you think that any economy can finance your needs or produce enough as long your army is doing that…?! Simply, it is unsustainable…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 14:57
Zero Talent!
1. You are not 100% sure that these quotes do not belong to these authors. So stop defending the Russians.

Of course, I can't be 100% sure because I haven't read all of these authors, and I could not find the above-mentioned quotes anywhere.

But neither did you, obviously. You have no proof that these quotes are real, and yet you have no problem publishing unverified information.

Once more, I am not defending the russians; I am defending the truth. You better do the same if you don't want to lose whatever is left of your credibility.

My advice: Stick to sources that can be verified, sources from reputable, trustworthy journalists, or restrict yourself to your own opinions without attributing them to someone else.

My donations go to Nova Ukraine: https://novaukraine.org/
My sources of information are normal. I read these authors, the writing style was followed. If you want to be a journalist, contact experts to show you paper media. Demanding on a forum so that you publications published 100 or more years ago is stupid and smacks of trolling in support of the Russians.
Your opinion of me doesn't matter to me. Thousands of people besides you are reading this topic, but you are the only one doing trolling.

novaukraine something small, I’ve never heard of it. The Pritula Foundation is a well-known and trusted organization in Ukraine.

No, as I said, it is very likely that there are no such quotes.
If there were, many people, including yourself, would be able to reference them, especially in the case of a viral post like this.

Moreover, the post itself should have included the origin of the quotes; the fact that the reference doesn't exist should be the first clue that the information is not trustworthy.

Most of the books written by these authors are already digitized, translated, and probably free to access or download. Searching for these quotes should be a fairly simple job.

Since you clearly didn't compile this list, why don't you post a screenshot of the source you were provided with containing these quotes? That's the least you can do to salvage your credibility.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 15:24
Zero Talent!
1. There cannot be public access to the works of authors.
2. Such works can be found on pirated sites, but Google does not search for them.
3. Not all of the authors’ works have been translated into English, and many have not been translated or digitized.
4. Nobody digitizes letters from authors.
5. I do not give away my sources of information.
6. Your opinion about me does not interest me. It's enough that I consider you a troll.

And I already said that if the digitization is done by the Russians, it means under the control of the KGB, which means you won’t find such phrases on Russian sites. These phrases will be removed from the electronic text. Therefore, only a scanned copy of the original publication, which is more than 100 years old, can serve as proof.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 15:50
Zero Talent!
1. There cannot be public access to the works of authors.
2. Such works can be found on pirated sites, but Google does not search for them.
3. Not all of the authors’ works have been translated into English, and many have not been translated or digitized.
4. Nobody digitizes letters from authors.
5. I do not give away my sources of information.
6. Your opinion about me does not interest me. It's enough that I consider you a troll.

And I already said that if the digitization is done by the Russians, it means under the control of the KGB, which means you won’t find such phrases on Russian sites. These phrases will be removed from the electronic text. Therefore, only a scanned copy of the original publication, which is more than 100 years old, can serve as proof.

Since you obviously don’t have access to scanned copies of the original work, it only means that even if you read books or letters published by these writers, you only read the version redacted by the KGB, which did not contain these quotes. So how can you say that these quotes were real?

As I said, a trustworthy author would have mentioned the original source below each one of those quotes to prove their authenticity.

But your “source” is very likely just a viral social media post that you fell for. You can't share it because it will only prove how gullible you are.

Don’t you see how you were caught again with your pants down in public?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 15:55
Don’t you see how you were caught again with your pants down in public?
I only see a troll from the US Democrats who works for the Russians. And this troll you are Zero Talent.

Of course, there are people who have printed editions of works dating back to the era of digitalization and the KGB era, and this is 100 years or older. Of course, there are people who did not come up with these phrases themselves, but took them from original sources.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on April 11, 2024, 16:01
Zero Talent!
1. There cannot be public access to the works of authors.
2. Such works can be found on pirated sites, but Google does not search for them.
3. Not all of the authors’ works have been translated into English, and many have not been translated or digitized.
4. Nobody digitizes letters from authors.
5. I do not give away my sources of information.
6. Your opinion about me does not interest me. It's enough that I consider you a troll.

And I already said that if the digitization is done by the Russians, it means under the control of the KGB, which means you won’t find such phrases on Russian sites. These phrases will be removed from the electronic text. Therefore, only a scanned copy of the original publication, which is more than 100 years old, can serve as proof.

A quote for which you cannot provide a source is worthless. It proves nothing.

85% of quotes on the Internet are made up. - Abraham Lincoln

Going with this rule, some of the quotes on your list may even be true. The best lies have a grain of truth in them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 16:22
Zero Talent!
1. There cannot be public access to the works of authors.
2. Such works can be found on pirated sites, but Google does not search for them.
3. Not all of the authors’ works have been translated into English, and many have not been translated or digitized.
4. Nobody digitizes letters from authors.
5. I do not give away my sources of information.
6. Your opinion about me does not interest me. It's enough that I consider you a troll.

And I already said that if the digitization is done by the Russians, it means under the control of the KGB, which means you won’t find such phrases on Russian sites. These phrases will be removed from the electronic text. Therefore, only a scanned copy of the original publication, which is more than 100 years old, can serve as proof.

A quote for which you cannot provide a source is worthless. It proves nothing.

85% of quotes on the Internet are made up. - Abraham Lincoln

Going with this rule, some of the quotes on your list may even be true. The best lies have a grain of truth in them.

Exactly. Based on my research, one quote may be genuine (Lermontov), one is clearly taken out of context (Dostoyevsky), and all the rest are fabricated (Tolstoy, Bulgakov, Gorky, Turgenev, Shmelov).
The WhatsApp list I received on March 8 also had quotes attributed to Aksakov, Pushkin, Rozanov, Blok, Gippius, and Shchedrin that were missed by stoker’s handler, but it did not include the real Lermontov quote.
There is also a version that includes a quote attributed to Pavlov that is missing from both lists.

That is how propaganda operates.

(https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:828/format:webp/1*oKOW_FGeS9OAtgs2F1xIxw.jpeg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 11, 2024, 17:11
Zero Talent!

5. I do not give away my sources of information.


That is a lie! Once again. And absolutely obvious to everyone.

You constantly reveal sources and show them publicly. If you have or know the sources. Every reader here can see and verify that. And thus, as so often before, make up their own mind about all your posts.

If you are caught making or spreading unverified propaganda, you are making excuses and talking nonsense. When you get caught making demonstrably false claims, you get insulting. You are not one whit better than any Russian propaganda machine.

You are a very poor, narcissistic person. And, as I have written so often, also someone who is very damaging to Ukraine's reputation. You'd better keep your mouth shut if you really want to help the Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 17:45
A quote for which you cannot provide a source is worthless. It proves nothing.
Not certainly in that way. This site is a forum, this topic is a forum. Live communication is acceptable here, and not constant links to any sources. A lot of people on this forum post their thoughts and things they agree with. If I don't provide a link to something I'm quoting, there are only two reasons:
1. I don't want to reveal my personal source.
2. I agree with quoting and sharing this information.
The information I quote, but without a source, can be perceived the same as any of my other texts.
I write a lot of texts, but I do not cite sources, although my texts appear due to the knowledge and information that I received from these sources.
Therefore, I don’t have to prove anything to anyone here, I don’t have to prove the veracity of what I quote. It is the choice of each reader whether to take note of what I write or not.
In this case, I have given enough arguments that these quotes are true about the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 11, 2024, 17:46

Wrong. I only defend the truth.
I am 100% behind Ukraine in its struggle to repel the unprovoked russian invasion.

I have donated my own money to Ukrainian causes, and I believe that all democratic countries, including the US, must do more to support Ukraine's attempt to recover its lost territories, including Crimea.

But Ukraine doesn't have to use propaganda to gather this support. It is counterproductive. The truth is enough.

As for these fake quotes, you can always post them as your personal opinion. I can definitely understand the anger, but please don't lie that they belong to those russian writers.

zero, where do you get your patience and above all your objectivity from?  ;)



I was thinking the same thing! He must be hitting his head on his desk from frustration.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/e7/e7/a7e7e764dd59c34d8b0e5b61a3ce8171.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 11, 2024, 17:48
You are not one whit better than any Russian propaganda machine.
Strange conclusion. You probably decided this because, unlike you, I know when the Second World War began.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 11, 2024, 18:00
In this case, I have given enough arguments that these quotes are true about the Russians.

You are missing the point or intentionally deflecting.

I didn't challenge your opinion about russians; we know it well by now. We understand that you consider the content of these quotes true. This is okay.

What is not okay is to attribute these quotes to famous writers to make your opinion more credible.
This is deceiving, cheating, and lying...

P.S. I would not donate money to an organization that you endorse. Your credibility is in tatters, raising doubts about the credibility of anything that you recommend.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 11, 2024, 19:51
Trump’s world view: How he’d deal with Russia, China, Iran and the Middle East
https://www.politico.eu/podcast/trumps-world-view-how-hed-deal-with-russia-china-iran-and-the-middle-east/ (https://www.politico.eu/podcast/trumps-world-view-how-hed-deal-with-russia-china-iran-and-the-middle-east/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: zastavkin on April 11, 2024, 23:35
Happy Cosmonautics Day to everyone!

We thank the United States, which invested more than other countries in the development of Russian cosmonautics by purchasing our rocket engines. This helped us develop and successfully launch yesterday the new heavy launch vehicle Angara-A5.
I vote for the further joint development of space research for the benefit of all humanity!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzUvMM32xWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzUvMM32xWw)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 12, 2024, 02:21
In this case, I have given enough arguments that these quotes are true about the Russians.

You are missing the point or intentionally deflecting.

I didn't challenge your opinion about russians; we know it well by now. We understand that you consider the content of these quotes true. This is okay.

What is not okay is to attribute these quotes to famous writers to make your opinion more credible.
This is deceiving, cheating, and lying...

P.S. I would not donate money to an organization that you endorse. Your credibility is in tatters, raising doubts about the credibility of anything that you recommend.
1. I did not attribute anything to anyone. As you may have noticed, these quotes were not written by me. If you have any complaints about these quotes and think that they do not belong to these authors, that is your personal point of view. If you want, you can devote your life to studying this issue.
2. On this forum I post only information with which I agree.
3. I am not writing to gain any authority here, especially from you. Any information that I post here is just information.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 12, 2024, 07:03
IEA Warns Attacks on Russia Plants May Disrupt Diesel Market

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-12/iea-warns-attacks-on-russia-refineries-may-disrupt-diesel-market (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-12/iea-warns-attacks-on-russia-refineries-may-disrupt-diesel-market)

 ;D ;D ;D


Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 12, 2024, 07:04

1. I did not attribute anything to anyone. As you may have noticed, these quotes were not written by me. If you have any complaints about these quotes and think that they do not belong to these authors, that is your personal point of view. If you want, you can devote your life to studying this issue.
2. On this forum I post only information with which I agree.
3. I am not writing to gain any authority here, especially from you. Any information that I post here is just information.

I already said that you didn't put the quotes together yourself. This level of lying and deceiving requires some skill and creativity.
But by publishing them, you assume them, especially when you don't share the source who gave them to you.
This is why your point number 2 is redundant.

And what you post here is not just information. As we have proven on multiple occasions, you are also posting fake news, propaganda, and a lot of your misguided personal opinions.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 12, 2024, 07:06
As we have proven on multiple occasions, you are also posting fake news, propaganda, and a lot of your misguided personal opinions.
This is just the opinion of one troll from the US Democrats. Your opinion.  ;D ;D ;D

US democrats = friends of Russians. Trolls from US Democrats = friends of Russian trolls.
Biden meets all the requirements of the best US president for russia. And putin has already said this twice.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 12, 2024, 07:08
The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine.

HUMANITARIAN CONSEQUENCES OF RUSSIAN AGGRESSION

During a meeting of the UN Security Council on April 11, UN Assistant Secretary- General Miroslav Jenča spoke about Russian war crimes against the civilian population.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine and gross violation of the UN Charter and international law continues to cause great damage to the people of Ukraine.
Since February 2022, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights has recorded 10,810 civilian deaths, including 600 children, and 20,556 injured civilians, including 1,357 children. These are recorded cases, but the data are incomplete due to the lack of access to the temporarily occupied territories.
In Ukraine, every seventh school was damaged and destroyed. More than 3,500 educational institutions have suffered some kind of destruction, almost 400 have been completely destroyed. About USD 14 billion is needed to restore the educational infrastructure, according to the latest estimates of the World Bank.
The number of casualties is increasing: in March 2024, there were at least 126 dead and 478 wounded civilians, which is 20% more than the month before.
The occupiers blowing up the Kakhovka HPP caused problems for about 11 million Ukrainians. UN representatives cannot get to the left bank of the Dnipro in the Kherson region.

RHETORIC ABOUT “REVENGE” AND “RETALIATION”

Russian propaganda is trying to present the destruction of Ukraine's energy system facilities as “revenge” for Ukrainian attacks on Russian refineries.

Enemy propaganda often calls its acts of terror “revenge” or “retaliation” for some action of the Ukrainian Defence Forces.
Thus, the Kremlin pretends to be not an aggressor, but a victim, appeals to “justice” and tries to form a negative attitude of Ukrainians to the proactive actions of the Defence Forces.
In fact, every act or campaign of terror of Russia is planned in advance and is never an “impulsive reaction” to the achievements of the Ukrainian Defence Forces.
It was Russia that launched an unprovoked aggression against Ukraine, and Russian attacks will continue regardless of whether the Ukrainian Defence Forces attack objects on the territory of Russia or not. The enemy will always find an “excuse.”
Instead, the Ukrainian Defence Forces will continue successful attacks against the enemy's legitimate military targets because only an armed victory of Ukraine, not a “refusal to provoke,” will guarantee the cessation of Russian terror.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3851549-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-humanitarian-consequences-of-russian-aggression-rhetoric-about-revenge-and-retaliation-10-years-since-ato-began-in-ukraines-east.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3851549-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-humanitarian-consequences-of-russian-aggression-rhetoric-about-revenge-and-retaliation-10-years-since-ato-began-in-ukraines-east.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 12, 2024, 08:51
… then you ask why not being supported with long range missiles from the west… just wait to see how actions of UA will be accepted there, followed with artificially higher prices of diesel and gas…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 12, 2024, 09:45
… then you ask why not being supported with long range missiles from the west… just wait to see how actions of UA will be accepted there, followed with artificially higher prices of diesel and gas…
Everything will be accepted normally. Biden's rating will fall, and Trump's will rise.  ;D ;D ;D
Ukraine may not strike at oil refineries, although from a military point of view this is not logical. But let's say this. For successful defense and offensive, Ukraine needs F16, missiles and tanks. In this case, it is possible to talk about a compromise if the US and the EU want to continue funding Russian Na.zis.
Without these weapons, Ukraine will strike Russian oil refineries every day.

Although much about this issue is not clear. If the Russian Na.zis cannot refine oil, then raw oil will be exported and its price will decrease. Can't other countries process this oil?
In any case, to defeat the Russians there must be a complete embargo on all trade with russia. Any politician who helps the Russians sell their raw materials and receive foreign currency is an accomplice of the Na.zis and terrorists. Biden deserves to be put in the electric chair.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 12, 2024, 12:58
… no, there just need to be peace… Zelenskyi finally got it…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 12, 2024, 14:17
The photo shows what Russian orcs look like.

(https://i.obozrevatel.com/news/2022/3/20/filestoragetemp-36.jpeg?size=630x300)

(https://i.obozrevatel.com/gallery/2022/3/20/filestoragetemp-2.jpeg)

(https://i.obozrevatel.com/gallery/2022/3/20/filestoragetemp-1.jpeg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 12, 2024, 17:40
Trump thought Ukraine ‘must be part of Russia’ during presidency, book says
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/12/trump-russia-ukraine-book-comments
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 12, 2024, 19:29
For all The Waterboys fans, a masterpiece: https://youtu.be/CIwI3OVL7fg
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2024, 03:34
Trump thought Ukraine ‘must be part of Russia’ during presidency, book says
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/12/trump-russia-ukraine-book-comments
This is dirty propaganda from the Democrats. Trump gave Ukraine a Javelin anti-tank missile system. Trump imposed sanctions against Nord Stream 2 and Iran. And that's not all. The cowardly democrats (friends of the Russians) lifted sanctions on both Nord Stream 2 and Iran, which became a signal for russia that it could begin to occupy Ukraine. When Democrat Obama was US President, Ukraine did not receive any weapons at all.
Yes, Trump did a lot of stupid things that the Democrats use in their false propaganda. But I am confident that the people of the United States will make the right choice in the elections and vote for Trump.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2024, 03:36
For all The Waterboys fans, a masterpiece: https://youtu.be/CIwI3OVL7fg
The closer we get to the elections, the more propaganda from the Democrats. Because of singers like these, the United States lost the war in Vietnam and Americans are still afraid to fight. The fear of fighting opens the way for Russian Na.zis and the axis of evil to occupy other countries and engage in terrorism.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2024, 07:13
For all The Waterboys fans, a masterpiece: https://youtu.be/CIwI3OVL7fg
The closer we get to the elections, the more propaganda from the Democrats. Because of singers like these, the United States lost the war in Vietnam and Americans are still afraid to fight. The fear of fighting opens the way for Russian Na.zis and the axis of evil to occupy other countries and engage in terrorism.

The Waterboys are Irish, in case you didn't know.

Obviously, like all intelligent people across the world, trump—the moron, trump-the-liar insulted their intelligence, compelling them to express themselves.

The song was written when he was in power but was rewritten and published immediately after the moron lost the election and triggered the Capitol attack on January 6th. So it's more than two years old and has nothing to do with the current election.

In case you didn't realize, they even sing about you:

conspiracy crazies raved and howled
the shining Capitol gates were breached
when the liar was impeached
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2024, 07:28
The biggest liar in the USA is Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2024, 07:30
The biggest liar in the USA is Biden.
conspiracy crazies raved and howled

PS. The Liar song art below is a metaphor for "orcs" and their conspiracy crazy useful idiots rooting for the moron.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 13, 2024, 12:02
(https://i.redd.it/bm1dla45w9uc1.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2024, 14:01
The propaganda from the US Democrats is the same as the propaganda from the Russians.
If Trump is replaced by Biden in this drawing, the drawing will be true.
Replace the elephant in the picture with a donkey.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2024, 14:04
I think that with such stupid and wretched propaganda, the US Democrats and their bas.tard Biden will lose the elections.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 13, 2024, 15:39
The propaganda from the US Democrats is the same as the propaganda from the Russians.
If Trump is replaced by Biden in this drawing, the drawing will be true.
Replace the elephant in the picture with a donkey.

What putin's useful idiots refuse to acknowledge:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2024, 16:31
I see Iran has joined the war against Israel. This is another geopolitical failure for Biden and the Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 13, 2024, 16:36
One thing you can already be sure of today: If Trump wins the election - which I'm pretty sure he will, and Trump then leaves Ukraine to the Russians, stocker2014 will certainly say that the Democrats will also be to blame. I'm writing this deliberately so that you can read it here in a year's time, if this forum is still around.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2024, 17:23
If Trump wins the election - which I'm pretty sure he will
+100
 :)

It depends how much of Ukraine is left until next year.
But you can be sure that if Trump pursues a pro-Russian policy, I will insult him just like Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 13, 2024, 17:25
Drones and missiles fly across Israel. On US TV channels everyone will be talking about every missile, every hit, every victim. But when drones and missiles kill Ukrainians every day, the lying democratic US TV channels are silent about it. And they have been silent for a year now. This is everything you need to know about the Democrats and Biden. Democrats are friends of Russians and the same evil.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 14, 2024, 01:51
… and when hit Russia, where it’s been reported…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 02:31
… and when hit russia, where it’s been reported…?!
"Democratic" US TV channels constantly show what's happening in russia. For several days they showed in great detail what was happening in Crocus City Hall and how the Democrats felt sorry for the Russians. At the same time, zero words about how many Shahed missiles and drones the Russian orcs launched across Ukraine every day.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 02:59
Russia's putin expresses preference for Biden as president

https://youtu.be/OglHRUBxI-A (https://youtu.be/OglHRUBxI-A)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 05:10
Statement from President Joe Biden on Iran’s Attacks against the State of Israel

...
Tomorrow, I will convene my fellow G7 leaders to coordinate a united diplomatic response to Iran’s brazen attack.
...

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/04/13/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-irans-attacks-against-the-state-of-israel/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/04/13/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-irans-attacks-against-the-state-of-israel/)
_____
Apart from a diplomatic response, the Russians' cowardly friend Biden can do nothing.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 05:13
Donald Trump's post amid Iranian attack on IsraeL.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLFESpxWsAEVIwn?format=png&name=small)

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 07:25
Trump recently said that any Democratic-leaning voters who support Israel should back him instead, as Biden has criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's actions in his war against Hamas. The Republican said Wednesday that "any Jewish person who votes for a Democrat or votes for Biden should have their head examined."

+100

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/14/1244653781/trump-attacks-judge-and-prosecutors-in-his-hush-money-case-in-last-rally-before- (https://www.npr.org/2024/04/14/1244653781/trump-attacks-judge-and-prosecutors-in-his-hush-money-case-in-last-rally-before-)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 07:34
“Everything he touches turns to crap,” Trump said of Biden.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/13/trump-lays-blame-for-strike-on-israel-on-democrats-rips-into-prosecutors-in-new-york-case-00152121 (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/13/trump-lays-blame-for-strike-on-israel-on-democrats-rips-into-prosecutors-in-new-york-case-00152121)

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 14, 2024, 09:18
Russia's putin expresses preference for Biden as president

https://youtu.be/OglHRUBxI-A (https://youtu.be/OglHRUBxI-A)

... and putin's useful idiots believe a kgb agent...

Donald Trump's post amid Iranian attack on IsraeL.
+100

.... and putin's useful idiots believe a moron...

For their information, Iran's proxies also attacked Israel while the moron-in-chief was in power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2019
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 14, 2024, 12:30
Donald Trump's post amid Iranian attack on IsraeL.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLFESpxWsAEVIwn?format=png&name=small)

+100

Yes, the truths of Donald Trump...

"Mexico will pay for the wall." Not a dime has ever come from Mexico.

"The wall will be done soon," he said more than 250 times. It's still not finished.

He was the first president to impose tariffs on Chinese products. Wrong.

He made the biggest tax cut in US history. Wrong.

He defeated ISIS in four weeks. It took two years.

He claimed several times that his father was born in Germany. False.

He claimed his family came from Sweden. False.

He claimed there was no inflation in the USA under him as president. False.

He claimed the election was stolen from him. False.

Trump claimed there was a mass execution of Muslims in the Philippines. There never was.

The list could go on for hours.

Lord of the lies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 12:49
.... and putin's useful idiots believe a moron...

For their information, Iran's proxies also attacked Israel while the moron-in-chief was in power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2019
I don’t know who you call an idiot or idiots, but it’s strange that you don’t know that Palestine and Hamas are not Iran. And only under the coward Biden, Hamas committed massacres in Israel, and only under Biden did Iran directly begin to fire missiles at Israel.
But trolls from US Democrats supporting Biden, of course, cannot understand all this.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 12:53
Donald Trump's post amid Iranian attack on IsraeL.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLFESpxWsAEVIwn?format=png&name=small)

+100
Yes, the truths of Donald Trump...
"Mexico will pay for the wall." Not a dime has ever come from Mexico.
"The wall will be done soon," he said more than 250 times. It's still not finished.
He was the first president to impose tariffs on Chinese products. Wrong.
He made the biggest tax cut in US history. Wrong.
He defeated ISIS in four weeks. It took two years.
He claimed several times that his father was born in Germany. False.
He claimed his family came from Sweden. False.
He claimed there was no inflation in the USA under him as president. False.
He claimed the election was stolen from him. False.
Trump claimed there was a mass execution of Muslims in the Philippines. There never was.
The list could go on for hours.
Lord of the lies.


Yes, Trump has some flaws. But he speaks correctly, sets the task correctly, and achieves success where cowardly democrats support Russians and other world terrorists. And most importantly, the entire Republican Party is behind Trump! People vote in elections not for an individual, but for a party!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 13:19
‘We’re only holding back the Russians with crowdfunded drones’, says Ukraine commander

Lt Col Pavlo Kurylenko tells The Telegraph a major Russian advance will come soon if Ukraine does not get fresh military aid from the West

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/12/only-crowdfunded-drones-holding-the-russians-back-ukraine/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/04/12/only-crowdfunded-drones-holding-the-russians-back-ukraine/)
____
Europarasites! Where are the weapons in the required quantity? Or does the Ukrainian Armed Forces need to withdraw to Berlin?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 14, 2024, 14:54
.... and putin's useful idiots believe a moron...

For their information, Iran's proxies also attacked Israel while the moron-in-chief was in power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2019
I don’t know who you call an idiot or idiots, but it’s strange that you don’t know that Palestine and Hamas are not Iran. And only under the coward Biden, Hamas committed massacres in Israel, and only under Biden did Iran directly begin to fire missiles at Israel.
But trolls from US Democrats supporting Biden, of course, cannot understand all this.
 ;D ;D ;D

Even putin's useful idiots should have known that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad are Iranian proxies. Iran is coordinating their actions and supporting them militarily, financially, and ideologically.
Yesterday's drone atracked was triggered because one if their Iranian commanders was killed by Israel in a recent airstrike.

So yes, no matter how much propaganda attempts to brainwash his cult followers (putin's useful idiots included), we can safely say that Iran also attacked Israel when the moron was in power, and his magical powers did nothing to prevent the attack.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 15:10
.... and putin's useful idiots believe a moron...

For their information, Iran's proxies also attacked Israel while the moron-in-chief was in power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2019
I don’t know who you call an idiot or idiots, but it’s strange that you don’t know that Palestine and Hamas are not Iran. And only under the coward Biden, Hamas committed massacres in Israel, and only under Biden did Iran directly begin to fire missiles at Israel.
But trolls from US Democrats supporting Biden, of course, cannot understand all this.
 ;D ;D ;D

Even putin's useful idiots should have known that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad are Iranian proxies. Iran is coordinating their actions and supporting them militarily, financially, and ideologically.
Yesterday's drone atracked was triggered because one if their Iranian commanders was killed by Israel in a recent airstrike.

So yes, we can safely say that Iran also attacked Israel when the moron was in power, no matter how much propaganda attempts to brainwash his cult followers (putin's useful idiots included).
Following your logic, we can argue that China also attacked Ukraine.
On the one hand, your arguments are well known, but we must understand that a direct war between Iran and Israel will lead to more casualties than anti-terrorist operations against Hamas.
You also forgot that Russian Na.zis also support and finance Hamas. This means, based on your logic, russia also attacked Israel.
Either way, Biden's Middle East policy is failing. All terrorists see that Biden and the Democrats are weak cowards. Therefore, the situation will only get worse.

Biden! Get the fuck out of the white house!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 14, 2024, 15:19
.... and putin's useful idiots believe a moron...

For their information, Iran's proxies also attacked Israel while the moron-in-chief was in power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2019
I don’t know who you call an idiot or idiots, but it’s strange that you don’t know that Palestine and Hamas are not Iran. And only under the coward Biden, Hamas committed massacres in Israel, and only under Biden did Iran directly begin to fire missiles at Israel.
But trolls from US Democrats supporting Biden, of course, cannot understand all this.
 ;D ;D ;D

Even putin's useful idiots should have known that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad are Iranian proxies. Iran is coordinating their actions and supporting them militarily, financially, and ideologically.
Yesterday's drone atracked was triggered because one if their Iranian commanders was killed by Israel in a recent airstrike.

So yes, we can safely say that Iran also attacked Israel when the moron was in power, no matter how much propaganda attempts to brainwash his cult followers (putin's useful idiots included).
Following your logic, we can argue that China also attacked Ukraine.
On the one hand, your arguments are well known, but we must understand that a direct war between Iran and Israel will lead to more casualties than anti-terrorist operations against Hamas.
You also forgot that Russian Na.zis also support and finance Hamas. This means, based on your logic, russia also attacked Israel.
Either way, Biden's Middle East policy is failing. All terrorists see that Biden and the Democrats are weak cowards. Therefore, the situation will only get worse.

Biden! Get the fuck out of the white house!

I have never heard of a Chinese general coordinating russian attacks on Ukraine, but we do know that Iranian generals were coordinating Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad's attacks on Israel.
Even putin's useful idiots should understand the difference.

Besides, it doesn’t even matter who was behind the attack.
What matters in this context is that the moron’s "magic powers" his cult believes in, did not prevent the attacks on Israel (with ~800 rockets), in 2019, when he was moron-in-chief.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 15:33
.... and putin's useful idiots believe a moron...

For their information, Iran's proxies also attacked Israel while the moron-in-chief was in power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2019
I don’t know who you call an idiot or idiots, but it’s strange that you don’t know that Palestine and Hamas are not Iran. And only under the coward Biden, Hamas committed massacres in Israel, and only under Biden did Iran directly begin to fire missiles at Israel.
But trolls from US Democrats supporting Biden, of course, cannot understand all this.
 ;D ;D ;D

Even putin's useful idiots should have known that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad are Iranian proxies. Iran is coordinating their actions and supporting them militarily, financially, and ideologically.
Yesterday's drone atracked was triggered because one if their Iranian commanders was killed by Israel in a recent airstrike.

So yes, we can safely say that Iran also attacked Israel when the moron was in power, no matter how much propaganda attempts to brainwash his cult followers (putin's useful idiots included).
Following your logic, we can argue that China also attacked Ukraine.
On the one hand, your arguments are well known, but we must understand that a direct war between Iran and Israel will lead to more casualties than anti-terrorist operations against Hamas.
You also forgot that Russian Na.zis also support and finance Hamas. This means, based on your logic, russia also attacked Israel.
Either way, Biden's Middle East policy is failing. All terrorists see that Biden and the Democrats are weak cowards. Therefore, the situation will only get worse.

Biden! Get the fuck out of the white house!

I have never heard of a Chinese general coordinating russian attacks on Ukraine, but we do know that Iranian generals were coordinating Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad's attacks on Israel.
Even putin's useful idiots should understand the difference.

Besides, it doesn’t even matter who was behind the attack.
What matters in this context is that the moron’s "magic powers" his cult believes in, did not prevent the attacks on Israel (with ~800 rockets), in 2019, when he was moron-in-chief.
Trolls from the US Democratic Party are very stupid. They don’t know that putin coordinated the attack on Ukraine with Xi Jinping even before the offensive. The trolls do not know that China fully supports russia at the UN and supplies all the necessary equipment and materials for the production of weapons in russia. The mental retardation of trolls characterizes their low level of understanding of geopolitics, which leads to the success of countries included in the axis of evil.
As for Trump, unlike the Russian friend Biden, he imposed sanctions against Iran. After which Biden lifted these sanctions, strengthened Iran, which led to war in the Middle East. Trump is correct in saying that US Democrats are to blame for the war in the Middle East.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 15:40
Let's summarize the reign of the Russian friend Biden:
1. Occupation of Ukraine and murder of Ukrainians.
2. Massacre in Israel.
3. Direct war between Iran and Israel.
4. Lifting sanctions on Iran and strengthening it militarily.
5. Strengthening China.
6. The cowardly flight of the US Army from Afghanistan and the loss of positions.
7. Loss of US authority throughout the world.
8. Cowardly US foreign policy.
9. Lifting sanctions from Nord Stream 2.

And 2024 is not over yet. Biden needs to be sent to prison immediately!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 14, 2024, 15:45
...And yet, trump's "magic powers" that his cult believes in didn't prevent the attack with ~800 rockets on Israel in 2019, when he was moron-in-chief.

800 Rockets in 2019, 300 drones in 2024.

More Israelis were killed and injured by the 2019 rockets he didn't prevent, than by the recent drone attack the moron claims he could have prevented,
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 14, 2024, 15:58
...And yet, trump's "magic powers" that his cult believes in didn't prevent the attack with ~800 rockets on Israel in 2019, when he was moron-in-chief.

800 Rockets in 2019, 300 drones in 2024.

More Israelis were killed and injured by the 2019 rockets he didn't prevent, than by the recent drone attack the moron claims he could have prevented,
This is a flawed and incorrect conclusion. The Nir Oz massacre in October 2023 resulted in hundreds of civilians killed and tens of thousands of war dead. Not only Israeli citizens are dying, but also Palestinian civilians.
The rockets that Hamas fired during the Trump administration did not pose a serious threat to Israel. But we must understand that yesterday Iran began firing missiles, and this is already the beginning of a war between Iran and Israel. How many people will be killed in 2024 is unknown.
Only idiot trolls can claim that Biden's policies are successful. Compared to Biden, Trump's policies were as effective as possible.
I understand that trolls from Democrats = friends of Russians, work for putin. It is obvious. The trolls are following putin's orders to support Biden in the elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 14, 2024, 16:06
..And yet, trump's "magic powers" that his cult believes in didn't prevent the attack with ~800 rockets on Israel in 2019, when he was moron-in-chief.

Back then, the moron never tweeted, saying, "ISRAEL IS UNDER ATTACK, and this was allowed to happen when I am the President."

But playing such childish what-if games with his gullible followers (putin's useful idiots inclusive) is too easy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 15, 2024, 02:11
..And yet, trump's "magic powers" that his cult believes in didn't prevent the attack with ~800 rockets on Israel in 2019, when he was moron-in-chief.

Back then, the moron never tweeted, saying, "ISRAEL IS UNDER ATTACK, and this was allowed to happen when I am the President."

But playing such childish what-if games with his gullible followers (putin's useful idiots inclusive) is too easy.
Under President Trump, the United States did not need to help Israel fight Hamas. Hamas uses a homemade Qassam rocket. Yesterday Iran fired ballistic missiles at Israel. I understand that the trolls from the US Democratic Party do not know the difference between a ballistic missile and a homemade missile, this is understandable, they are stupid trolls. So, NATO countries had to use aircraft to shoot down missiles fired by Iran. This is already called the hot phase of the third world war, which began as a result of Biden’s cowardly and weak policies.
Biden's policies led to massacres in Israel, war in Palestine, tens of thousands of dead, and Iran's entry into the war. Now Iran is ready to fight with US troops. All these are the results of the cowardly and weak policies of the Democrats.
As for the US Democratic trolls, they can only spread propaganda that has nothing to do with reality.

Trump pursued the right policy against Iran and imposed sanctions, which made it possible to keep Hamas and Iran under control. The lifting of sanctions by Biden led to the strengthening of Iran, massacres and war in the Middle East. Biden is a friend of the Russians and a friend of all the world's terrorists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 15, 2024, 02:26
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene🇺🇸
@RepMTG
Are we going to vote to bring back sanctions on Iran like we had under Pres Trump and freeze their money?

Because that worked.

Has Biden’s FBI been rounding up the people chanting “death to America” in Michigan and Chicago?

Or are they still just locking up J6’ers?

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1779655933049606433
_____
+100

Biden - get the he.ll out of the white house!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 15, 2024, 06:02
On Biden's advice, Israel decided not to retaliate against Iran. Great! Of course, there is no need to destroy Iranian factories for the production of drones, missiles and nuclear weapons, as well as refineries. Give Iran the opportunity to prepare for more serious attacks.
This is all you need to know about the policies of cowardly US democrats = friends of Russians.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 15, 2024, 06:53
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene🇺🇸
@RepMTG
Are we going to vote to bring back sanctions on Iran like we had under Pres Trump and freeze their money?

Because that worked.

Has Biden’s FBI been rounding up the people chanting “death to America” in Michigan and Chicago?

Or are they still just locking up J6’ers?

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1779655933049606433
_____
+100

Biden - get the he.ll out of the white house!

These are is the idiots putin's useful idiots are cheering for, this is trump's maga:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 15, 2024, 08:07
Zero Talent, if you have no more objections to my personal posts, then we will consider the issue closed. Your drain is counted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 15, 2024, 08:38
… Zero talent, why are you being so negative…?! :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 15, 2024, 09:06
Zero Talent, if you have no more objections to my personal posts, then we will consider the issue closed. Your drain is counted.

Yes, the case is closed. Cheering for trump and his anti-Ukraine maga idiots who believe Ukraine is led by na*zis is what putin's idiots do.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 15, 2024, 09:25
Deliberately diverting a topic into another direction is trolling and flooding. Your drain is counted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 15, 2024, 10:05
Deliberately diverting a topic into another direction is trolling and flooding. Your drain is counted.

Unfortunately, this is the exact same topic.

You are getting caught with your pants down, time and time again, when cheering for Trump's moronic "truths" and his anti-Ukraine maga idiots.

This is what putin's useful idiots do.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 15, 2024, 10:09
… Bram, Zero Talent is obviously a KGB troll…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 15, 2024, 12:28
Deliberately diverting a topic into another direction is trolling and flooding. Your drain is counted.
Unfortunately, this is the exact same topic.
You are getting caught with your pants down, time and time again, when cheering for Trump's moronic "truths" and his anti-Ukraine maga idiots.
This is what putin's useful idiots do.

A troll who campaigns for Biden and the Democrats is always in a pants-down position. I proved this to all readers of this forum yesterday and today in my posts. Your arguments are worthless and false.
I expected at least some arguments from you today, but as always, you responded with trolling.
You are being paid money in vain for posts in support of Biden, you are not earning this money. This means that Biden will lose the election.
Unlike you, I do not work according to KGB manuals and do not have a curator. All information contained in my posts is true.

ps.
If I agree with someone's post, it means that this post contains the truth. I am not responsible for the authors of these posts and am not responsible for their actions (misdeeds) or any crimes they may ever commit. If I don't publicly condemn someone, it only means that the Biden and the Democrats are committing monstrous crimes against humanity, and no stupid posts can compare with these crimes. As soon as US citizens realize that Biden is a criminal, he will very quickly be put in the electric chair.

pss.
Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene reports online what is happening in Congress and in US politics. Therefore, her posts deserve attention. For any of her other personal posts, if they are criminal, she can be held accountable.

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the nation! Death of Russian Federation!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 15, 2024, 13:21
The morons like trump and mtg, whom you endorse, will sell Ukraine to putin as soon as maga seizes the presidency.

Today, you are falling for their propaganda, believing that trump would have prevented attacks on Israel, just because he says so, when he did not do it while he was in charge, and he was unable to prevent the deaths caused by those Iranian-backed rocket attacks.

On the other hand, the Aegis US defense system sent by the current administration in the Mediterranean Sea identified and helped to shot down almost all Iranians drones, with zero casualties on the ground. A total fiasco for Iran.

When your moron becomes president, you will wish to have someone else in power in the US, because nothing can be worse than someone whose party calls Ukrainians n*zis, let alone someone who openly admires putin and believes that Ukraine should trade territory for peace.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 15, 2024, 15:24
It’s been a couple of weeks since House Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Michael McCaul was surprisingly candid about one of his party’s direction. “I think Russian propaganda has made its way into the United States, unfortunately, and it’s infected a good chunk of my party’s base,” the Texas Republican complained.

Less than a week later, the House Intelligence Committee’s Republican chair, Ohio’s Mike Turner, echoed the sentiment, conceding that some of his GOP colleagues are peddling rhetoric that’s “directly coming from Russia.” Soon after, former Defense Secretary William Cohen, a longtime GOP lawmaker, said he believes many congressional Republicans are now working as “the arm of Vladimir Putin.
If these rebukes were designed to discourage GOP officials from making the kind of public comments the Kremlin wants to hear, they don’t appear to be having their intended effect.

On Friday, for example, Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene appeared on Steve Bannon’s podcast and continued to peddle the same rhetoric she’s pushed since Russia invaded Ukraine more than two years ago. “Vladimir Putin has not said he wants to go march across Europe and take Europe,” the Georgia Republican said, as if the Russian autocrat is a credible source of information.

The same day, The New York Times published an op-ed from Republican Sen. J.D. Vance of Ohio — a persistent opponent of U.S. support for Ukraine, and a man who has professed his total indifference to Ukraine’s future — which argued that a Russian victory is inevitable.


https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/ukraine-gops-vance-pushes-claims-russia-wants-hear-rcna147831 (https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/ukraine-gops-vance-pushes-claims-russia-wants-hear-rcna147831)

Only putin's useful idiots still believe that trump and maga will lift even a finger to help Ukraine, when influential MAGA representatives believe that Ukrainians are n*zis.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 15, 2024, 15:59
Deliberately diverting a topic into another direction is trolling and flooding. Your drain is counted.

You will never get it, will you?

You are so blind that it hurts!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 03:31
The morons like trump and mtg, whom you endorse, will sell Ukraine to putin as soon as maga seizes the presidency.
::) ::) ::)
1. US Democrats have long sold Ukraine to putin. The sale began under Clinton and continued under Obama and Biden. The problem for Democrats is that Ukrainians are resisting.
2. If anyone can sell Ukraine, it is not the United States, but Great Britain and the Europarasites. This is what they are doing, without supplying the required amount of weapons to Ukraine. In Ukraine, many understand that Europarasites do what Biden tells them.

Today, you are falling for their propaganda, believing that trump would have prevented attacks on Israel, just because he says so, when he did not do it while he was in charge, and he was unable to prevent the deaths caused by those Iranian-backed rocket attacks.
Under Trump, the number of victims in the Middle East was 10,000 times lower. I understand that the deaths of women and children in Palestine mean nothing to you. You only count the deaths of Israeli citizens. For a supporter of the US Democratic Party, this is a common occurrence.
And even fewer Israeli citizens died under Trump than under Biden. Probably you should only speak to democrats in cynical language. People are only citizens of Israel. Any war is not a war if Israeli citizens or US citizens do not die.
I'm not defending Hamas, but it was under Biden that Iran and Hamas were able to orchestrate a serious threat to Israel. This has led to a war in the Middle East, and the war will continue to escalate more and more.
If Trump were president, his sanctions policy would weaken Iran, and Israel would be able to eliminate Hamas very quickly and without major casualties.

On the other hand, the Aegis US defense system sent by the current administration in the Mediterranean Sea identified and helped to shot down almost all Iranians drones, with zero casualties on the ground. A total fiasco for Iran.
Iran hasn't even started yet, as he has already said. Naturally, Iran will take the situation into account; the next attacks will be not only against Israel, but also against US troops.
Remember this post of mine.

When your moron becomes president, you will wish to have someone else in power in the US, because nothing can be worse than someone whose party calls Ukrainians n*zis, let alone someone who openly admires putin and believes that Ukraine should trade territory for peace.
A coward and friend of the Russians, Biden should not be President of the United States. The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry will deal with other problems.
You copy propaganda from Democrats onto the forum and pass off individual public statements of some congressman as the opinion of the entire Republican Party and Trump. It's a lie.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 03:41
when influential MAGA representatives believe that Ukrainians are n*zis.
And to support this broad conclusion about all Republicans, you showed one tweet.  ;D ;D ;D
This is how US Democratic Party trolls create propaganda against Republicans.
I am sure that that lady has long since regretted writing such a thing. She received a lot of criticism for her post. The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry can hold an explanatory conversation with her if it deems it necessary.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 03:43
It’s been a couple of weeks since House Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Michael McCaul was surprisingly candid about one of his party’s direction. “I think Russian propaganda has made its way into the United States, unfortunately, and it’s infected a good chunk of my party’s base,” the Texas Republican complained.

Less than a week later, the House Intelligence Committee’s Republican chair, Ohio’s Mike Turner, echoed the sentiment, conceding that some of his GOP colleagues are peddling rhetoric that’s “directly coming from Russia.” Soon after, former Defense Secretary William Cohen, a longtime GOP lawmaker, said he believes many congressional Republicans are now working as “the arm of Vladimir Putin.
If these rebukes were designed to discourage GOP officials from making the kind of public comments the Kremlin wants to hear, they don’t appear to be having their intended effect.
......
Considering that the entire policy of US Democrats over the past 30 years has been aimed at friendship and support for the Russians, your entire text makes no sense.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 03:47
You are so blind that it hurts!
Wilm, you haven't forgotten what year the Second World War began? Always remember this. Write it down on your hand.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 16, 2024, 06:18
when influential MAGA representatives believe that Ukrainians are n*zis.
And to support this broad conclusion about all Republicans, you showed one tweet.  ;D ;D ;D
This is how US Democratic Party trolls create propaganda against Republicans.
I am sure that that lady has long since regretted writing such a thing. She received a lot of criticism for her post. The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry can hold an explanatory conversation with her if it deems it necessary.

Here is more than a tweet, here is an entire story written by a maga representative, part of the anti-Ukraine maga majority:

J.D. Vance: The Math on Ukraine Doesn’t Add Up https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html)

The Ukrainian foreign minister will have to have a talk with the majority of the Republican Party.

Good luck to him in this impossible task! Honestly.

PS. MTG is known for deleting the post she regrets. Today, her post calling Ukranians Na*zis is still up. This is maga.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 06:54
when influential MAGA representatives believe that Ukrainians are n*zis.
And to support this broad conclusion about all Republicans, you showed one tweet.  ;D ;D ;D
This is how US Democratic Party trolls create propaganda against Republicans.
I am sure that that lady has long since regretted writing such a thing. She received a lot of criticism for her post. The Ukrainian Foreign Ministry can hold an explanatory conversation with her if it deems it necessary.
PS. MTG is known for deleting the post she regrets. Today, her post calling Ukranians Na*zis is still up. This is maga.
She deleted her post?, which means the incident is over, the problem is no longer there. They had a general educational conversation with her. Now only Democratic trolls are spreading propaganda.

Here is more than a tweet, here is an entire story written by a maga representative, part of the anti-Ukraine maga majority:
J.D. Vance: The Math on Ukraine Doesn’t Add Up https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/opinion/jd-vance-ukraine.html)
In the article I saw more criticism of the policies of Biden and the Democrats. This politician raised many correct questions that I have already written about. The Democrats initially supply the wrong weapons to Ukraine and are wasting US money. Because of the democrats, Ukraine has been waging a war for 2 years using the methods of the First World War. Of course, Western industry does not produce as many weapons for the methods of the First World War.
If the Republicans provide Ukraine with F16s, missiles and tanks, this will be enough to eliminate the entire Russian army. The number of shells for artillery will require a small amount. Trump will also force the European parasites to produce a lot of weapons for the front, so the United States does not have to produce everything.
Republicans understand all this. We are waiting for Trump's victory.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 06:58
In any case, the Democrats' policies are weak, cowardly, ineffective and obviously losing. So Republicans have a chance to change that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 06:59
Liz Truss says Donald Trump ‘has to’ win

Speaking to LBC Monday as she promotes a new book, Truss said Trump’s policies as president “were actually very effective.”

“He cut regulation, he cut taxes, he liberated the U.S. energy supply. And this is why the U.S. has had significantly higher economic growth than Britain,” she argued.

Trump, she added, “was more effective at preventing aggressive regimes expanding and I think we’d be in a different position if he got re-elected in 2020.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-say-donald-trump-has-to-win/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/liz-truss-say-donald-trump-has-to-win/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 07:10
The policies of cowardly democrats (friends of the Russians) forced Ukraine to fight using the methods of the First World War (when there was no aviation and no missiles). At the same time, Ukraine is fighting against russia, which has aircraft and missiles. Of course, for such a war, Ukraine must mobilize millions of soldiers and dig trenches. This is trench warfare. For such a war, millions of shells are needed.
Biden should be put in the electric chair!

In the presence of F16 and missiles, all Russian logistics in Ukraine and in the nearest Russian territories are destroyed in a few weeks. After which the Russians will not be able to transport equipment and shells to the front line. This is what Ukrainian experts have been talking about for two years now.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 16, 2024, 07:17
… you want to win a war without weapons…?! Your conclusions are years late… it is sad what your country became without people and ruined cities…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 07:44
trucic, you write ravings and lies. I don't comment on that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 16, 2024, 08:12


She deleted her post?, which means the incident is over, the problem is no longer there. They had a general educational conversation with her. Now only Democratic trolls are spreading propaganda


Caught with your pants down again.

Additional explanation for people with comprehension challenges: I said that she is known to delete posts she regrets, like the one when the whole world laughed at her after she said that the eclipse and the earthquake are signs from God asking us to repent.

The post calling Ukrainians na*zi is still up. She doesn't regret it. She means it.

This is maga.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 16, 2024, 08:30
EU migration policy could turn into a race to the bottom — even for Ukrainians
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-migration-policy-turn-race-bottom-ukraine/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-migration-policy-turn-race-bottom-ukraine/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 16, 2024, 08:33

In the article I saw more criticism of the policies of Biden and the Democrats. This politician raised many correct questions that I have already written about

Yes, yes, yes.... This maga politician is writing exactly what putin's useful idiots are cheering for.:

I voted against this package in the Senate and remain opposed to virtually any proposal for the United States to continue funding this war.


Translation for people with comprehension challenges: no funding means zero dollars and zero weapons.

The White House has said time and again that it can’t negotiate with President Vladimir Putin of Russia. This is absurd. The Biden administration has no viable plan for the Ukrainians to win this war. The sooner Americans confront this truth, the sooner we can fix this mess and broker for peace.

Translation for people with comprehension challenges: this is what trump also wants, as he has already promised on several occasions: negotiate for peace; in other words, negociate with putin and give him everything he has already occupied in exchange for an illusory peace.

This is maga. The worst choice for Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 16, 2024, 08:58
Why Did U.S. Planes Defend Israel but Not Ukraine?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/04/ukraine-israel-war-comparison/678077/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/04/ukraine-israel-war-comparison/678077/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 09:04
She deleted her post?, which means the incident is over, the problem is no longer there. They had a general educational conversation with her. Now only Democratic trolls are spreading propaganda
The post calling Ukrainians na*zi is still up. She doesn't regret it. She means it.
This is maga.
Include a link to this post on Twitter.

And this is not maga, this is her personal stupidity and misunderstanding of what Nazism is.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 09:07

In the article I saw more criticism of the policies of Biden and the Democrats. This politician raised many correct questions that I have already written about

Yes, yes, yes.... This maga politician is writing exactly what putin's useful idiots are cheering for.:

I voted against this package in the Senate and remain opposed to virtually any proposal for the United States to continue funding this war.


Translation for people with comprehension challenges: no funding means zero dollars and zero weapons.

The White House has said time and again that it can’t negotiate with President Vladimir Putin of Russia. This is absurd. The Biden administration has no viable plan for the Ukrainians to win this war. The sooner Americans confront this truth, the sooner we can fix this mess and broker for peace.

Translation for people with comprehension challenges: this is what trump also wants, as he has already promised on several occasions: negotiate for peace; in other words, negociate with putin and give him everything he has already occupied in exchange for an illusory peace.

This is maga. The worst choice for Ukraine.
This is just an article by one congressman and your personal understanding of what was written. Everything I think about this I have already written today.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 16, 2024, 09:11
Offensive in Ukraine's east ‘priority' for Russia as it intensifies push on Chasiv Yar
https://kyivindependent.com/offensive-in-the-east-priority-for-russia-as-it-intensifies-push-on-chasiv-yar/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 09:11
EU migration policy could turn into a race to the bottom — even for Ukrainians
https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-migration-policy-turn-race-bottom-ukraine/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-migration-policy-turn-race-bottom-ukraine/)
Everything is fine and good.

EU bring Ukrainian refugees back to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 09:16
Why Did U.S. Planes Defend Israel but Not Ukraine?
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/04/ukraine-israel-war-comparison/678077/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/04/ukraine-israel-war-comparison/678077/)
Mostly propaganda from US Democrats in this article.

Biden's cowardly and Russia-friendly policies are presented as the fault of the Republican Party. Sh.it, not an article.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 09:20
Offensive in Ukraine's east ‘priority' for Russia as it intensifies push on Chasiv Yar
https://kyivindependent.com/offensive-in-the-east-priority-for-russia-as-it-intensifies-push-on-chasiv-yar/
Ukraine has problems.
But the main problem is the coward in the presidency of the United States and the European parasites who do not impose effective sanctions against russia, China, Iran, North Korea and Belarus.

In fact, Ukraine alone is waging war against the entire axis of evil (the countries I have listed).
Ukraine alone also defends all NATO countries. That's all you need to know about NATO.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 16, 2024, 10:40
She deleted her post?, which means the incident is over, the problem is no longer there. They had a general educational conversation with her. Now only Democratic trolls are spreading propaganda
The post calling Ukrainians na*zi is still up. She doesn't regret it. She means it.
This is maga.
Include a link to this post on Twitter.

Here you go, and pull up your pants, it's embarassing!

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1779544515658838257

This is maga!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 16, 2024, 12:34
Offensive in Ukraine's east ‘priority' for Russia as it intensifies push on Chasiv Yar
https://kyivindependent.com/offensive-in-the-east-priority-for-russia-as-it-intensifies-push-on-chasiv-yar/
Ukraine has problems.
But the main problem is the coward in the presidency of the United States and the European parasites who do not impose effective sanctions against russia, China, Iran, North Korea and Belarus.

In fact, Ukraine alone is waging war against the entire axis of evil (the countries I have listed).
Ukraine alone also defends all NATO countries. That's all you need to know about NATO.
… alone…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 16, 2024, 12:47
Russian victory in Chasiv Yar would jeopardize ‘last stronghold’ of Donetsk region, Ukrainians say
https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-victory-over-ukranian-key-city-chasiv-yar-jeopardize-entire-donetsk-region/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/russian-victory-over-ukranian-key-city-chasiv-yar-jeopardize-entire-donetsk-region/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 16, 2024, 13:55
8) 8) 8)

Many People and Companies Have Made Millions on Trump Media’s Stock

A surge in the social media company’s market value has generated a windfall for current and former executives, on top of the bonanza for its largest shareholder, former President Trump.

Trump Media’s shares have jumped on their first two days of trading on the Nasdaq.

Shares of former President Donald J. Trump’s social media company continued to surge on Wednesday, extending the gains on its first official trading session on the Nasdaq the day before.

After another double-digit percentage gain, the parent of Truth Social approached $9 billion in market value, a windfall for insiders awarded shares in the company.

The biggest beneficiary is Mr. Trump, the company’s largest shareholder, whose stake is worth more than $5 billion, on paper. No other shareholder comes close, according to regulatory filings, but many of Trump Media’s executives have seen their net worth swell this week, in some cases by many millions of dollars.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/business/trump-media-shareholders.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/27/business/trump-media-shareholders.html)

It was $74.74 a few weeks ago. The more he begs his gullible cult followers to invest, the more the stock price drops.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 16, 2024, 15:31
Yes, the bottom line for Trump is not "America first", as he has repeatedly declared, but "Trump first".

And therein lies the main problem I have with stocker2014's recurring dream.

What characterizes the people who govern the countries of "the axis of evil"?

They all have one thing in common: they increase their personal wealth - and therefore their power - at the expense of the people they govern. And I swear that there is no more important goal for Donald Trump than to use his political office to fill his own bank accounts. To this end, he is prepared to undermine democracy to his own advantage. And he doesn't really care about Ukraine when it comes to this goal.

I myself am not a fan of Biden. My problem is not Biden's politics, but his age and state of health. When I imagine that he could govern for another 4 years, I am anything but pleased.

But I would still give him the edge over Trump any day. I fear that Trump will become nothing more than another building block in the axis of evil.

And I can imagine that stocker2014 also sees this risk. But he doesn't care, because his credo is that only evil can defeat other evil.

Personally, I think that the example of the German chancellor in the Second World War is a perfect example of how evil doesn't always win. And at that time, it didn't take evil to defeat evil in Germany.

The problem is not just Donald Trump. The problem is above all the people who blindly follow him. Because they promise themselves power, influence, great positions and financial benefits after his election. It was the same in Germany back then. It's the same in Russia - see Medvedev or Lavrov.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 16, 2024, 16:05
What characterizes the people who govern the countries of "the axis of evil"?

They all have one thing in common: they increase their personal wealth - and therefore their power - at the expense of the people they govern.
I can say about the Russians. They are genetic slaves, orcs and zombies. Russians cannot have any other power than putin or someone like him.
I fear that Trump will become nothing more than another building block in the axis of evil.
There is no need to attribute the crimes of Biden and the Democrats to Trump.

And I can imagine that stocker2014 also sees this risk. But he doesn't care, because his credo is that only evil can defeat other evil.
You should drink less!
I don't think Republicans are evil.

Personally, I think that the example of the German chancellor in the Second World War is a perfect example of how evil doesn't always win. And at that time, it didn't take evil to defeat evil in Germany.
You don't know history at all! What were you taught at your school?
Germany was defeated by the USSR, which was a fascist country like Germany. The Gestapo is the progeny of the NKVD.
All other good people (European countries) surrendered to Hitler within a few days.

The problem is not just Donald Trump. The problem is above all the people who blindly follow him. Because they promise themselves power, influence, great positions and financial benefits after his election. It was the same in Germany back then. It's the same in Russia - see Medvedev or Lavrov.
The next fairy tales. Half the US doesn't like Democrats because they are *insult removed*. Go to states that support Republicans and talk to people, they will tell you who the Democrats are.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 16, 2024, 16:27
What characterizes the people who govern the countries of "the axis of evil"?

They all have one thing in common: they increase their personal wealth - and therefore their power - at the expense of the people they govern.
I can say about the Russians. They are genetic slaves, orcs and zombies. Russians cannot have any other power than putin or someone like him.
I fear that Trump will become nothing more than another building block in the axis of evil.
There is no need to attribute the crimes of Biden and the Democrats to Trump.

And I can imagine that stocker2014 also sees this risk. But he doesn't care, because his credo is that only evil can defeat other evil.
You should drink less!
I don't think Republicans are evil.

Personally, I think that the example of the German chancellor in the Second World War is a perfect example of how evil doesn't always win. And at that time, it didn't take evil to defeat evil in Germany.
You don't know history at all! What were you taught at your school?
Germany was defeated by the USSR, which was a fascist country like Germany. The Gestapo is the progeny of the NKVD.
All other good people (European countries) surrendered to Hitler within a few days.

The problem is not just Donald Trump. The problem is above all the people who blindly follow him. Because they promise themselves power, influence, great positions and financial benefits after his election. It was the same in Germany back then. It's the same in Russia - see Medvedev or Lavrov.
The next fairy tales. Half the US doesn't like Democrats because they are *insult removed*. Go to states that support Republicans and talk to people, they will tell you who the Democrats are.

Oh, yes, I must have made a mistake. My understanding is that Germany was defeated by the Allies. They then divided Germany into US, British, French and Russian occupation zones. Where I grew up, it was the Americans who were part of our daily lives. I had no way of knowing that they were Russians in disguise - please excuse my ignorance. So it was also the Russians who landed in Normandy?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 16, 2024, 23:16
Slovak Prime Minister explained why he is against Ukraine's accession to NATO
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/slovak-prime-minister-explained-why-he-is-against-ukraine-s-accession-to-nato/ar-BB1lJZDc (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/slovak-prime-minister-explained-why-he-is-against-ukraine-s-accession-to-nato/ar-BB1lJZDc)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 02:15
Oh, yes, I must have made a mistake. My understanding is that Germany was defeated by the Allies. They then divided Germany into US, British, French and Russian occupation zones. Where I grew up, it was the Americans who were part of our daily lives. I had no way of knowing that they were Russians in disguise - please excuse my ignorance. So it was also the Russians who landed in Normandy?
Without the USSR there would be no allies. Germany lost the war in battles with the USSR. Everything else was a consequence. It is clear that few people would like it if all of Europe were occupied by the Russians. Although the Russians already occupied many European countries at that time.
You were probably told at school that it was the USA and Great Britain who were able to defeat the German army.  ;D ;D ;D

I will clarify that the main war was won by Ukrainian soldiers at that time.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2024, 03:19
Oh, yes, I must have made a mistake. My understanding is that Germany was defeated by the Allies. They then divided Germany into US, British, French and Russian occupation zones. Where I grew up, it was the Americans who were part of our daily lives. I had no way of knowing that they were Russians in disguise - please excuse my ignorance. So it was also the Russians who landed in Normandy?

You were probably told at school that it was the USA and Great Britain who were able to defeat the German army.  ;D ;D ;D


No, we weren't taught that. If you could read, I used the term "allies".

Unexploded bombs are regularly defused here in the city. There have been 3 in the past 2 weeks - the last one last Sunday. All of them are of US or British origin.

2 million tons of bombs were dropped over Germany by the air forces of the USA and the Royal Air Force. The resulting deaths (approx. 600,000), the immense destruction, especially of the major cities, and the associated decline in the morale of the civilian population played a significant role in the downfall of Germany and its unjust regime. The war was won not least due to the air superiority of the Allies.

But since, as always, you have your own truth, I can spare you this information.

I suppose you wrote your own schoolbooks?

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 05:52
Oh, yes, I must have made a mistake. My understanding is that Germany was defeated by the Allies. They then divided Germany into US, British, French and Russian occupation zones. Where I grew up, it was the Americans who were part of our daily lives. I had no way of knowing that they were Russians in disguise - please excuse my ignorance. So it was also the Russians who landed in Normandy?

You were probably told at school that it was the USA and Great Britain who were able to defeat the German army.  ;D ;D ;D


No, we weren't taught that. If you could read, I used the term "allies".

Unexploded bombs are regularly defused here in the city. There have been 3 in the past 2 weeks - the last one last Sunday. All of them are of US or British origin.

2 million tons of bombs were dropped over Germany by the air forces of the USA and the Royal Air Force. The resulting deaths (approx. 600,000), the immense destruction, especially of the major cities, and the associated decline in the morale of the civilian population played a significant role in the downfall of Germany and its unjust regime. The war was won not least due to the air superiority of the Allies.

But since, as always, you have your own truth, I can spare you this information.

I suppose you wrote your own schoolbooks?
1. Germany was bombed not only by the Western allies, but also by the USSR.
2. The Western Allies began bombing Germany only in 1943.

In January 1943, at the Casablanca Conference, it was decided to begin strategic bombing of Germany by joint British-American forces. The objects of the military industry and German cities were to be the targets of the bombing.
In July-August 1943, Hamburg suffered massive bombing. The double raid on Schweinfurt and Regensburg on August 17, 1943 was the first massive raid on objects deep in Germany. Bomber units were unable to defend themselves against German fighter attacks, and losses were high (about 20%). Such losses were deemed unacceptable and the Eighth Air Force (US) ceased air operations over Germany until the arrival of fighters, North American P-51 Mustangs, with sufficient range to fly to Berlin and back.

3. At the end of 1942 and 1943, German troops suffered crushing defeats on the territory of Ukraine. It was only thanks to this that the United States and Britain decided to start bombing Germany. They saw that Germany was losing the war.
4. The Western Allies opened a second front only in 1944. Normandy is already the summer of 1944.

Conclusions: The USA and Britain are cowards who waited until evil in the person of the fascist USSR defeated evil in the person of Na.zi Germany. When the cowardly Western allies saw that Germany began to lose the war, only then did they launch an air operation, and a year later only a ground operation.

I'll tell you this, if the USA and Britain had not landed in Europe, the USSR would have occupied all of Europe. Therefore, their landing was only with the goal of stopping fascism from the USSR.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 05:57
History repeats itself. The cowardly NATO repeats the actions and policies of the United States and Britain during the Second World War.
But if then the United States began supplying weapons through Lend-Lease, now the cowardly Democrats cannot even do this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 17, 2024, 08:08
… Bram, you have been totally lost in yours alternative reality… you are a proof that education is not functional in some case - it must be followed with healthy and open mind reasoning…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 17, 2024, 08:10
Ukraine is heading for defeat
https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraine-losing-russia-war/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraine-losing-russia-war/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 08:52
Ukraine is heading for defeat
https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraine-losing-russia-war/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/why-ukraine-losing-russia-war/)
The article describes the results of the policies of Biden and the US Democrats. Biden - fuck you!

But there is no need to despair, friends of Russians - Democrats thought that Ukraine would last only 3 days in 2022. As a result, these 3 days lasted for 2 years.
Of course, Europarasites and US democrats are evil.

Everything is relatively stable on the front line so far. The Ukrainian Armed Forces are eliminating 1000 Russian orcs a day.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 09:01
Russian forces strike Chernihiv with Iskander missiles: 16 civilians killed, 60 injured – photo, video

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/17/7451633/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/17/7451633/)
_____

Russian orcs only know how to fight with women and children. Another Russian crime.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 09:53
One of two US plants that produce 155mm artillery shell bodies went up in flames yesterday. The plant also makes 105mm artillery projectiles, 120mm mortar rounds, 203mm naval shells, and a variety of smoke, illumination and incendiary rounds. The US has been trying to ramp up production of artillery ammunition to supply Ukraine.

The extent of the damage is unclear.

https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/status/1780386614516314440
______

While the Democrats are in power, the United States is losing its military power.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 09:53
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLU1O4BXEAA20tH?format=jpg&name=small)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 10:06
 8) 8) 8)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLUW4eRXkAEOrDP?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 10:12
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLX-Hk9WsAEQDGa?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2024, 12:44
Just 12 minutes ago:

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1780649744844399054
Not only does she not regret it, as our delusional stoker believed yesterday, she is now doubling down.

This is trump's maga putin's useful idiots are endorsing and cheering for.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 17, 2024, 16:05
Oh, yes, I must have made a mistake. My understanding is that Germany was defeated by the Allies. They then divided Germany into US, British, French and Russian occupation zones. Where I grew up, it was the Americans who were part of our daily lives. I had no way of knowing that they were Russians in disguise - please excuse my ignorance. So it was also the Russians who landed in Normandy?

You were probably told at school that it was the USA and Great Britain who were able to defeat the German army.  ;D ;D ;D


No, we weren't taught that. If you could read, I used the term "allies".

Unexploded bombs are regularly defused here in the city. There have been 3 in the past 2 weeks - the last one last Sunday. All of them are of US or British origin.

2 million tons of bombs were dropped over Germany by the air forces of the USA and the Royal Air Force. The resulting deaths (approx. 600,000), the immense destruction, especially of the major cities, and the associated decline in the morale of the civilian population played a significant role in the downfall of Germany and its unjust regime. The war was won not least due to the air superiority of the Allies.

But since, as always, you have your own truth, I can spare you this information.

I suppose you wrote your own schoolbooks?
1. Germany was bombed not only by the Western allies, but also by the USSR.
2. The Western Allies began bombing Germany only in 1943.

In January 1943, at the Casablanca Conference, it was decided to begin strategic bombing of Germany by joint British-American forces. The objects of the military industry and German cities were to be the targets of the bombing.
In July-August 1943, Hamburg suffered massive bombing. The double raid on Schweinfurt and Regensburg on August 17, 1943 was the first massive raid on objects deep in Germany. Bomber units were unable to defend themselves against German fighter attacks, and losses were high (about 20%). Such losses were deemed unacceptable and the Eighth Air Force (US) ceased air operations over Germany until the arrival of fighters, North American P-51 Mustangs, with sufficient range to fly to Berlin and back.

3. At the end of 1942 and 1943, German troops suffered crushing defeats on the territory of Ukraine. It was only thanks to this that the United States and Britain decided to start bombing Germany. They saw that Germany was losing the war.
4. The Western Allies opened a second front only in 1944. Normandy is already the summer of 1944.

Conclusions: The USA and Britain are cowards who waited until evil in the person of the fascist USSR defeated evil in the person of Na.zi Germany. When the cowardly Western allies saw that Germany began to lose the war, only then did they launch an air operation, and a year later only a ground operation.

I'll tell you this, if the USA and Britain had not landed in Europe, the USSR would have occupied all of Europe. Therefore, their landing was only with the goal of stopping fascism from the USSR.

Once more I can see that you still write your own schoolbooks.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 16:10
Oh, yes, I must have made a mistake. My understanding is that Germany was defeated by the Allies. They then divided Germany into US, British, French and Russian occupation zones. Where I grew up, it was the Americans who were part of our daily lives. I had no way of knowing that they were Russians in disguise - please excuse my ignorance. So it was also the Russians who landed in Normandy?

You were probably told at school that it was the USA and Great Britain who were able to defeat the German army.  ;D ;D ;D


No, we weren't taught that. If you could read, I used the term "allies".

Unexploded bombs are regularly defused here in the city. There have been 3 in the past 2 weeks - the last one last Sunday. All of them are of US or British origin.

2 million tons of bombs were dropped over Germany by the air forces of the USA and the Royal Air Force. The resulting deaths (approx. 600,000), the immense destruction, especially of the major cities, and the associated decline in the morale of the civilian population played a significant role in the downfall of Germany and its unjust regime. The war was won not least due to the air superiority of the Allies.

But since, as always, you have your own truth, I can spare you this information.

I suppose you wrote your own schoolbooks?
1. Germany was bombed not only by the Western allies, but also by the USSR.
2. The Western Allies began bombing Germany only in 1943.

In January 1943, at the Casablanca Conference, it was decided to begin strategic bombing of Germany by joint British-American forces. The objects of the military industry and German cities were to be the targets of the bombing.
In July-August 1943, Hamburg suffered massive bombing. The double raid on Schweinfurt and Regensburg on August 17, 1943 was the first massive raid on objects deep in Germany. Bomber units were unable to defend themselves against German fighter attacks, and losses were high (about 20%). Such losses were deemed unacceptable and the Eighth Air Force (US) ceased air operations over Germany until the arrival of fighters, North American P-51 Mustangs, with sufficient range to fly to Berlin and back.

3. At the end of 1942 and 1943, German troops suffered crushing defeats on the territory of Ukraine. It was only thanks to this that the United States and Britain decided to start bombing Germany. They saw that Germany was losing the war.
4. The Western Allies opened a second front only in 1944. Normandy is already the summer of 1944.

Conclusions: The USA and Britain are cowards who waited until evil in the person of the fascist USSR defeated evil in the person of Na.zi Germany. When the cowardly Western allies saw that Germany began to lose the war, only then did they launch an air operation, and a year later only a ground operation.

I'll tell you this, if the USA and Britain had not landed in Europe, the USSR would have occupied all of Europe. Therefore, their landing was only with the goal of stopping fascism from the USSR.

Once more I can see that you still write your own schoolbooks.  ;D ;D ;D
No, unlike you, I read professional literature and listen to what historians say.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 16:18
Just 12 minutes ago:

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1780649744844399054
Not only does she not regret it, as our delusional stoker believed yesterday, she is now doubling down.

This is trump's maga putin's useful idiots are endorsing and cheering for.
+100
She's great! I've been wanting to tell everyone about this for a long time. But she was ahead of me!
That's it, there are no more complaints against her, the incident is over.

Under Biden, a friend of the Russians, and under Obama, the “democratic” press in the United States wrote that the Ukrainian heroes in the Azov regiment were Na.zis. Democrats = friends of Russians, that's why the "democratic" US press wrote these lies and Russian propaganda.
Of course, Marjorie Taylor Greene, as a conscientious US citizen, has read the “democratic” press and says what this press writes. Everything is logical and everything is correct. Low support for Ukraine among US citizens is the result of the pro-Russian policy of US Democrats.
Therefore, Marjorie Taylor Greene said everything correctly: there is no need to make claims against her. Make claims against Biden, the Democrats and their press.

The “democratic” press in the USA must finally decide who the fighters of the Azov regiment are - Na.zis or heroes of Ukraine!
I will say more, US Democrats imposed sanctions against Azov fighters and these people could not enter US territory.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 17, 2024, 16:20
Republicans! Crush the Democrats!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 17, 2024, 17:01
Just 12 minutes ago:

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1780649744844399054
Not only does she not regret it, as our delusional stoker believed yesterday, she is now doubling down.

This is trump's maga putin's useful idiots are endorsing and cheering for.
+100
She's great! I've been wanting to tell everyone about this for a long time. But she was ahead of me!
That's it, there are no more complaints against her, the incident is over.

Under Biden, a friend of the Russians, and under Obama, the “democratic” press in the United States wrote that the Ukrainian heroes in the Azov regiment were Na.zis. Democrats = friends of Russians, that's why the "democratic" US press wrote these lies and Russian propaganda.
Of course, Marjorie Taylor Greene, as a conscientious US citizen, has read the “democratic” press and says what this press writes. Everything is logical and everything is correct. Low support for Ukraine among US citizens is the result of the pro-Russian policy of US Democrats.
Therefore, Marjorie Taylor Greene said everything correctly: there is no need to make claims against her. Make claims against Biden, the Democrats and their press.

The “democratic” press in the USA must finally decide who the fighters of the Azov regiment are - Na.zis or heroes of Ukraine!
I will say more, US Democrats imposed sanctions against Azov fighters and these people could not enter US territory.

We already knew it l, but it is good to see it confirmed once more.

Only putin's useful idiots and maga fools parrot putin's propaganda, which claims the Ukrainian army is made up of na*zis, thus justifying his "special dena*zification operation".

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 02:14
Marjorie Taylor Greene caught the Democrats and their Zero Talent troll with their pants down.  ;D ;D ;D

Zero Talent, I already wrote to you that you and any of your democrats are constantly in a position with their pants down.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 18, 2024, 04:59
… everyone can see that this war is closing to its end…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 05:14
… everyone can see that this war is closing to its end…
No. Until Trump wins the election, the war will continue for a long time. According to Ukrainian military experts, the war will continue until the Russian Federation is completely eliminated.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 18, 2024, 06:59
… weapons supply peaks from the West are history… army is exhausted and motivation questionable… only way for Ukraine is to negotiate anything and asap… with Russia…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 18, 2024, 07:02
Why Donald Trump ‘hates Ukraine’
https://www.politico.eu/article/why-donald-trump-hates-ukraine-us-congress-kyiv-war/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/why-donald-trump-hates-ukraine-us-congress-kyiv-war/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 07:10
Marjorie Taylor Greene caught the Democrats and their Zero Talent troll with their pants down.  ;D ;D ;D

Zero Talent, I already wrote to you that you and any of your democrats are constantly in a position with their pants down.

You don't get it. Your poor comprehension skills impaired your judgment, again.
A Democrat representative called her out when she wrote that Ukrainians are na*zis and accused her of parroting putin's propaganda.
In her defense, she used articles written by putin's useful idiots.

Now, in your desperate attempt to defend maga, you defended her statement, admitted that she is right, and Ukrainians are na*zis.

That's what putin's useful idiots do.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 18, 2024, 07:13
According to a former member of Ukrainian parliament Ihor Mosiychuk, #Russia struck the hotel where soldiers were staying. Russia confirmed that. Of course, officials in Ukraine won't admit to that
https://twitter.com/besthealthyou/status/1780772138711945327
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 08:10
… weapons supply peaks from the West are history… army is exhausted and motivation questionable… only way for Ukraine is to negotiate anything and asap… with Russia…
1. The same can be said about Russian orcs.
2. You write this Russian propaganda here on the forum.

Ukraine will not conduct any negotiations with the Russians. There can only be one contact with a Russian - the elimination of the Russian orc.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 08:14
Why Donald Trump ‘hates Ukraine’
https://www.politico.eu/article/why-donald-trump-hates-ukraine-us-congress-kyiv-war/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/why-donald-trump-hates-ukraine-us-congress-kyiv-war/)
This is propaganda from US Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 08:18
In her defense, she used articles written by putin's useful idiots.
+100
It is the Russians who dictate what should be written in the press controlled by US Democrats.

1. I never said that Ukrainians are Na.zis.
2. Marjorie Taylor Greene has proven that the US Democrats are in a position with their pants down and she has proven that the Democratic-controlled press is publishing Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 08:33
According to a former member of Ukrainian parliament Ihor Mosiychuk, #Russia struck the hotel where soldiers were staying. Russia confirmed that. Of course, officials in Ukraine won't admit to that
https://twitter.com/besthealthyou/status/1780772138711945327 (https://twitter.com/besthealthyou/status/1780772138711945327)
Lies and Russian propaganda. You constantly copy Russian propaganda onto the forum.

Your source is not trustworthy. Even if that person really exists, he is a KGB agent. There were many such agents in Ukraine, some had already been eliminated, and some fled to live in Na.zi russia.
As I understand it, Russian orcs cannot provide anything more to justify their crimes except someone’s post on Twitter.
Only an idiot would copy this post in this thread.
____

"As of 9 a.m., the search and rescue operation has been completed. We know about 18 dead. 78 people have sought medical care, 37 of them are in hospital. 12 people are in serious condition," Bryzhynskyi said.

Kuleba informs Japanese Foreign Minister about Russia's attack on Chernihiv
According to him, 28 apartment buildings - 419 apartments - were damaged, and one building was destroyed. Yesterday, gas, water, and electricity were restored in the city.

As reported, yesterday, April 17. Russia fired Iskander missiles at the center of Chernihiv.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3853910-in-chernihiv-12-victims-of-missile-attack-have-severe-injuries.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3853910-in-chernihiv-12-victims-of-missile-attack-have-severe-injuries.html)
______

A hospital building, an educational institution, a multi-storey residential building and many other residential buildings were damaged. Children were harmed.

https://youtu.be/sFpxA-Ah1-o (https://youtu.be/sFpxA-Ah1-o)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 08:41
In her defense, she used articles written by putin's useful idiots.
+100
It is the Russians who dictate what should be written in the press controlled by US Democrats.

1. I never said that Ukrainians are Na.zis.
2. Marjorie Taylor Greene has proven that the US Democrats are in a position with their pants down and she has proven that the Democratic-controlled press is publishing Russian propaganda.

You comprehension skills are way below average. So let's try one more time:

A Democratic representative accused her of claiming that Ukrainians are na*zis.
She defended her statement (that Ukrainians are na*zi) by using articles written by putin's useful idiots.
Now you are defending her and her statement in which she claimed that Ukrainians are n*zis.

You didn't say that Ukrainians are na*zis, but you defend those who say it, when they say it.

That's even worse than what putin's useful idiots do. At least they have an appearance of logic, but this is plain stupidity.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 08:47
I see that the US Congress may approve aid to Ukraine this week. The bill includes long-range ATACMS missiles. But I am 100% sure that the coward Biden (and friend of the Russians) will not allow the missiles to be transferred to Ukraine. Will monitor the situation.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 18, 2024, 08:54
Ukraine’s Chances of Pushing Russia Out Look Increasingly Grim
https://www.wsj.com/world/ukraines-chances-of-pushing-russia-out-look-increasingly-grim-3bc2075a (https://www.wsj.com/world/ukraines-chances-of-pushing-russia-out-look-increasingly-grim-3bc2075a)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 18, 2024, 09:07
161 Ukrainian children abducted by Russia found in Germany
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/17/7451586/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/17/7451586/index.amp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 09:09
In her defense, she used articles written by putin's useful idiots.
+100
It is the Russians who dictate what should be written in the press controlled by US Democrats.

1. I never said that Ukrainians are Na.zis.
2. Marjorie Taylor Greene has proven that the US Democrats are in a position with their pants down and she has proven that the Democratic-controlled press is publishing Russian propaganda.

You comprehension skills are way below average. So let's try one more time:

A Democratic representative accused her of claiming that Ukrainians are na*zis.
She defended her statement (that Ukrainians are na*zi) by using articles written by putin's useful idiots.
Now you are defending her and her statement in which she claimed that Ukrainians are n*zis.

You didn't say that Ukrainians are na*zis, but you defend those who say it, when they say it.

That's even worse than what putin's useful idiots do. At least they have an appearance of logic, but this is plain stupidity.
Trolls from the US Democratic Party are trying to pass off the opinion of one member of the Republican Party as the opinion of Trump and the entire Republican Party.  ;D ;D ;D

1. She read articles that were published in the "democratic" press. These articles did not say that they were written by Russian idiots.
2. Of course, I defend her, because her opinion is formed by articles that are published in the “democratic” press controlled by US Democrats. And this opinion is formed not only among her, but also among many other US citizens. US Democrats are Putin's friends.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 09:11
Ukraine’s Chances of Pushing Russia Out Look Increasingly Grim
https://www.wsj.com/world/ukraines-chances-of-pushing-russia-out-look-increasingly-grim-3bc2075a (https://www.wsj.com/world/ukraines-chances-of-pushing-russia-out-look-increasingly-grim-3bc2075a)
Written by order of the KGB and Russian propaganda.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 09:13
Zero Talent, are you reading the posts of this Russian troll under the nickname "trucic"? Read the articles he links to. The entire “democratic” US press constantly writes articles ordered by putin. This is the policy of the US Democrats, this is the policy of Biden!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 09:15
161 Ukrainian children abducted by Russia found in Germany
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/17/7451586/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/17/7451586/index.amp)
And why am I not surprised? I have already written that the Germans are trying to steal Ukrainian children and adopt them into their families. I often see information about this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 09:24
❗️People are leaving Kharkov en masse!
https://twitter.com/Wagnersfamily/status/1774911105896247434?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Probably because Russian orcs are shooting at hotels where Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers live? Is that what your sources in Russian propaganda tell you?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 09:26
Russians hit Kharkiv city centre, four strikes leave civilians wounded

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/7/7450104/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/7/7450104/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 09:31
Thanks to the US Republican Party, long-range ATACMS missiles were included in military assistance to Ukraine. This is already interesting. Such a bill needs to be passed; it will greatly reduce Biden’s rating. As I already wrote, Biden will most likely refuse to transfer these missiles to Ukraine. He will refuse because he is waiting for Putin’s support in the US elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 09:43
In her defense, she used articles written by putin's useful idiots.
+100
It is the Russians who dictate what should be written in the press controlled by US Democrats.

1. I never said that Ukrainians are Na.zis.
2. Marjorie Taylor Greene has proven that the US Democrats are in a position with their pants down and she has proven that the Democratic-controlled press is publishing Russian propaganda.

You comprehension skills are way below average. So let's try one more time:

A Democratic representative accused her of claiming that Ukrainians are na*zis.
She defended her statement (that Ukrainians are na*zi) by using articles written by putin's useful idiots.
Now you are defending her and her statement in which she claimed that Ukrainians are n*zis.

You didn't say that Ukrainians are na*zis, but you defend those who say it, when they say it.

That's even worse than what putin's useful idiots do. At least they have an appearance of logic, but this is plain stupidity.
Trolls from the US Democratic Party are trying to pass off the opinion of one member of the Republican Party as the opinion of Trump and the entire Republican Party.  ;D ;D ;D

1. She read articles that were published in the "democratic" press. These articles did not say that they were written by Russian idiots.
2. Of course, I defend her, because her opinion is formed by articles that are published in the “democratic” press controlled by US Democrats. And this opinion is formed not only among her, but also among many other US citizens. US Democrats are Putin's friends.

putin's useful idiots are not only found in this forum and in virtually the whole maga movement (e.g. the fool you are defending). Falling for putin's propagands is not an attribute only specific to you or maga fools.

But defending a maga fool who strongly believes that Ukrainians are na*zis and siding against a representative who called her out (defending Ukraine) is plain stupidity.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 09:54
Thanks to the US Republican Party, long-range ATACMS missiles were included in military assistance to Ukraine. This is already interesting. Such a bill needs to be passed; it will greatly reduce Biden’s rating. As I already wrote, Biden will most likely refuse to transfer these missiles to Ukraine. He will refuse because he is waiting for Putin’s support in the US elections.

Yes, finally some good news.

I can already predict that a vast majority (maybe even an unanimity) of Democrats will vote in favor of that long-overdue and delayed (by the GoP) bill, while, very likely, the isolationist maga majority within the GOP will vote against it, including your new hero, MTG who, with your moronic approval, calls Ukrainians na*zis.

The Speaker of the House even said that he is finally ready to push this bill forward, despite the personal risks he is exposing himself to: the risk of being impeached by the maga majority spearheaded by your darling MTG, who openly called for his removal from the speakership (exactly because of his willingness to support Ukraine, see the recent screenshot below).
Check the end of his statement:

https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1780762935272296717
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 11:21
I can already predict that a vast majority (maybe even an unanimity) of Democrats will vote in favor of that long-overdue and delayed (by the GoP) bill
But I'm not sure about that. You still haven’t understood the mine that the Republicans have laid in this bill to target the Democrats.
Long-range ATACMS missiles are what the democrats (friends of the Russians) do not want to give to Ukraine. The Democrats have an agreement with putin.
Well, let's see how many Democrats vote this time.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 11:24
I've said everything about Marjorie Taylor Greene. My opinion has not changed.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 11:40
I can already predict that a vast majority (maybe even an unanimity) of Democrats will vote in favor of that long-overdue and delayed (by the GoP) bill
But I'm not sure about that. You still haven’t understood the mine that the Republicans have laid in this bill to target the Democrats.
Long-range ATACMS missiles are what the democrats (friends of the Russians) do not want to give to Ukraine. The Democrats have an agreement with putin.
Well, let's see how many Democrats vote this time.  ;D

Suuuure! The illuminati strikes again...

FYI, I am absolutely certain that MTG and your other maga darlings who believe Ukrainians are na*zis will vote against the pro-Ukraine bill.

Surely, they must have another secret plan that even you, in your infinite wisdom, missed: they plan to protect the Democrats from falling into that trap of yours. They call Ukrainians n*zis, but that's also a trap. They also want to prevent the old-school Republicans from falling into that trap together with the Democrats.

Don't you see how ridiculous your are? The world is upside down in your head, my friend!

Let's hope that besides a Democrat unanimity, enough old-school Republicans will vote in favor of the bill, so Ukraine gets what it desperately needs to defend itself and maybe even to counterattack.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 12:15
Don't you see how ridiculous your are?
1. Before the actual voting, I see only your fantasies.
2. It was only thanks to the Republican Party that long-range ATACMS missiles were added to this bill. Without these missiles, the US Democratic bill was a steal of money from US taxpayers and a gift for putin and all Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 12:21
Don't you see how ridiculous your are?
1. Before the actual voting, I see only your fantasies.
2. It was only thanks to the Republican Party that ATACMS missiles were added to this bill. Without these missiles, the US Democratic bill was a steal of money from US taxpayers and a gift for putin and all Russians.

Are you ready to bet that MTG and your maga darlings who call Ukrainains na*zis will vote against the pro-Ukraine bill?
Are you ready to bet that a vast majority of Democrats will vote in favor of it?

I don't usually bet, but these things are as obvious as the daily sunrise.

FYI, As predicted, MTG, whom you defended for calling Ukrainians n*zis, just filed a motion to vacate Mike Johnson for pushing the pro-Ukraine bill.
In her head, Mike Johnson is now a Democrat speaker and Ukrainians are na*zis.
Defend her, now!

This is maga. How many more proofs do you still need?

https://x.com/RepMTG/status/1780985369250419139
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 12:45
Are you ready to bet that MTG and your maga darlings who call Ukrainains na*zis will vote against the pro-Ukraine bill?
The press controlled by US Democrats called Ukrainians Na.zis. The Republican member simply repeated what was written in this press.

I'm not interested in all these disputes. I think this is childish. I also have little interest in relations within the Republican Party. The Republican Party is a democratic party, there can be different opinions and each member of the party plays a specific role. I need results, so I'll wait until Saturday.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 13:13
Are you ready to bet that MTG and your maga darlings who call Ukrainains na*zis will vote against the pro-Ukraine bill?
The press controlled by US Democrats called Ukrainians Na.zis. The Republican member simply repeated what was written in this press.

No. She didn't simply repeat it. She believes it, and she used articles written by putin's useful idiots to prove that she is right. This is why she is so vocal against the pro-Ukraine bill. This is why now she is calling Mike Johnson a Democrat. A Democrat called her out when she said Ukrainians are na*zis, she doubled down, and you defended her.

My God, how gullible and naïve can you be?

I'm not interested in all these disputes. I think this is childish. I also have little interest in relations within the Republican Party. The Republican Party is a democratic party, there can be different opinions and each member of the party plays a specific role. I need results, so I'll wait until Saturday.

Yep, I didn't think so.
I never expected that you would put your honor where your mouth is.

Now you are no longer interested in this "dispute" when the facts are so overwhelmingly against you, when your gullible pro-maga beliefs are shattered live, in front of your eyes...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 18, 2024, 14:08
Don't you see how ridiculous your are?
1. Before the actual voting, I see only your fantasies.
2. It was only thanks to the Republican Party that ATACMS missiles were added to this bill. Without these missiles, the US Democratic bill was a steal of money from US taxpayers and a gift for putin and all Russians.

Are you ready to bet that MTG and your maga darlings who call Ukrainains na*zis will vote against the pro-Ukraine bill?
Are you ready to bet that a vast majority of Democrats will vote in favor of it?

I don't usually bet, but these things are as obvious as the daily sunrise.

FYI, As predicted, MTG, whom you defended for calling Ukrainians n*zis, just filed a motion to vacate Mike Johnson for pushing the pro-Ukraine bill.
In her head, Mike Johnson is now a Democrat speaker and Ukrainians are na*zis.
Defend her, now!

This is maga. How many more proofs do you still need?

https://x.com/RepMTG/status/1780985369250419139

Proofs don't help him at all. He is a conspiracy theorist. There's no way to beat the "logic" of these people!

But I'll bet with you in any case. The Republicans will vote against it - that much is absolutely certain. Because they follow the propaganda and the credo of the Trump camp. And that means: America first. Securing its own borders has absolute priority over any help for Ukraine.

So this will not get through and the urgently needed aid for Ukraine will not materialize. Then our conspiracy theorist will come up with something new - presumably that Democratic propaganda is to blame for the Democrats not getting their way on the aid package. Or something like that - it would fit in with his completely muddled thinking.

If Trump wins the election in October - and unfortunately I am almost certain of that - and Ukraine is then handed over to the Russians by Trump in wrapping paper, the Democrats will again be to blame - that is also absolutely certain with such a skewed world view of our conspiracy theorist.

The border security that Republicans consider so important at least has the advantage that stocker2014 cannot accuse Republicans of wanting to solve their own demographic problems with migrants from Latin America.

However, border security is of course just a pretext for "What do we care about Ukraine? It's far away and not our problem. We have much more important problems - America first."

Meanwhile, a delegation of parasites has arrived in Kiev to help rebuild the energy infrastructure destroyed by the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 14:27
Wilm, I still hope that, even if they are a minority inside the GOP now, there are still enough old-school Republicans left in Congress so that together with an almost unanimous pro-Ukraine vote from the Democrats, the bill will pass.

maga and trump are indeed an existential threat for Ukraine.

Another example (see below): JD Vance, another maga representative, the same who wrote that Op-Ed in the NY Times justifying how Ukraine should give putin what he wants in exchange for an illusory peace (mentioned a few pages ago), is against the REPO Act meant to seize russian assets and give them to Ukraine, being concerned that it will remove trump's ability to negotiate with putin!
JD Vance is instead trying to convince his colleagues to protect putin's billions.

And stoker still needs proofs...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 15:47
Now you are no longer interested in this "dispute" when the facts are so overwhelmingly against you, when your gullible pro-maga beliefs are shattered live, in front of your eyes...
Whoa! What a syllable! What an epatage! What an expression!
Yes, dear, you need to write novels, not discuss politics on forums.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 15:51
Meanwhile, a delegation of parasites has arrived in Kiev Kyiv to help rebuild the energy infrastructure destroyed by the Russians.
Let's see how these rallies and events end.

Kyiv is correctly written like this.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 18, 2024, 16:03
Wilm, I still hope that, even if they are a minority inside the GOP now, there are still enough old-school Republicans left in Congress so that together with an almost unanimous pro-Ukraine vote from the Democrats, the bill will pass.

maga and trump are indeed an existential threat for Ukraine.

Another example (see below): JD Vance, another maga representative, the same who wrote that Op-Ed in the NY Times justifying how Ukraine should give putin what he wants in exchange for an illusory peace (mentioned a few pages ago), is against the REPO Act meant to seize russian assets and give them to Ukraine, being concerned that it will remove trump's ability to negotiate with putin!
JD Vance is instead trying to convince his colleagues to protect putin's billions.

And stoker still needs proofs...
You don’t understand well what you write and what you criticize. These are such big matters that there is no point in discussing them in this way.
For example, the EU froze $500 billion of Russian money, but the EU does not want to give this money to Ukraine. Because they are Europarasites.
Russian money in the USA? Do you really think that Russian idiots keep their money in the USA, given that the third world war has been going on for 10 years? How naive.
Yes, some members of the Republican Party want to show off and are engaged in populism. But only Democratic trolls can inflate all this nonsense to the level of a worldwide Republican conspiracy against Ukraine. You are funny.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 18, 2024, 16:14
Russian money in the USA? Do you really think that Russian idiots keep their money in the USA, given that the third world war has been going on for 10 years? How naive.
The REPO Act is about confiscating russian assets worldwide, not just in the US, and about preventing the US president to lift the existing sanctions against russia without Congress approval (something that maga is expecting trump to do). Do your homework: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4175 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4175)

Yes, some members of the Republican Party want to show off and are engaged in populism. But only Democratic trolls can inflate all this nonsense to the level of a worldwide Republican conspiracy against Ukraine. You are funny.

Yes, you slowly begin to realize the inconvenient truth: a majority of the GOP is now against Ukraine. trump's isolationist and populist maga is now controlling the GOP.
Here is what other "GoP" representatives or senators have to say:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 03:24
The REPO Act is about confiscating russian assets worldwide, not just in the US, and about preventing the US president to lift the existing sanctions against russia without Congress approval (something that maga is expecting trump to do). Do your homework: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4175 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4175)
1. I have already read this.
2. There is no mention of the lifting of sanctions.
3. Until today, there were no such laws in the United States? Weren't Russian assets confiscated? What did Biden do as president for 3 years?
4. This law is crap, it doesn’t solve the problem called “russia”. To solve this problem, what is needed is not sanctions, but an embargo on any trade with russia and a ban on all countries to trade with it.
5. US companies continue to buy hydrocarbons from russia through the Russian port in the city of Novorossiysk. US Democrats prohibit Ukraine from attacking this oil terminal.
Biden - fuck you!

Yes, you slowly begin to realize the inconvenient truth: a majority of the GOP is now against Ukraine. trump's isolationist and populist maga is now controlling the GOP.
Here is what other "GoP" representatives or senators have to say:
You write lies and propaganda from Democrats. That's what Democratic trolls do.
Your "evidence" is not evidence. You are copying some gossip and snippets of phrases here. This is exactly the crap that Russian propaganda does.
How many Republicans are against the bill to help Ukraine will only be seen after voting on Saturday. But this won’t say anything either. Some Republicans are concerned not with Ukraine, but with other issues. Protecting the US borders is an issue of the same importance as assistance to Ukraine. The lousy Democrats have endangered the security of the United States with their cretin policies. Hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists illegally enter the United States. Biden should be put in the electric chair! The Democratic Party needs to be banned!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 03:30
Russian missile attack: 2 dead in Dnipro, 6 in Synelnykove, including 2 children – photo

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/19/7451928/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/19/7451928/)

Another Russian crime. Russians can only fight women and children.

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/4/a/4ad09d3-dnipro3300_690x387.avif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 03:33
Israel launches missile attack on facilities in Iran

This is the result of the cowardly and weak policies of Biden and the US Democrats. The Democrats' lifting of sanctions on Iran led to the hot stage of World War III in the Middle East.

Biden - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 03:51
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLd7ydBWEAARZJj?format=jpg&name=large)

+100

Europarasite - where are the weapons? Scholz - where are the Taurus missiles?
Stop stealing from Ukraine its people.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 19, 2024, 04:51
… and again, you have missed a point…
Donald Trump moans: ‘Why isn’t Europe giving more money to help Ukraine?’
https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-moan-why-europe-not-give-more-money-help-ukraine/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-moan-why-europe-not-give-more-money-help-ukraine/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 19, 2024, 04:58
The REPO Act is about confiscating russian assets worldwide, not just in the US, and about preventing the US president to lift the existing sanctions against russia without Congress approval (something that maga is expecting trump to do). Do your homework: https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4175 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4175)
1. I have already read this.
2. There is no mention of the lifting of sanctions.

1 No, you didn't.
2. See the text below, explicitly forbidding the president to lift sanctions against russia without Congressional approval, before russia stops the aggression, pays compensations for it, and begins the reconstructuion of Ukraine under international supervison.
https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hr4175/BILLS-118hr4175ih.pdf (https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hr4175/BILLS-118hr4175ih.pdf)

This is meant to prevent trump from lifting the sanctions as soon as he seizes power, as part of his announced "plan" to "end the war in 24 hours".
This is why his maga loyalists are fighting against this common-sense law.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 19, 2024, 05:33

You write lies and propaganda from Democrats. That's what Democratic trolls do.
Your "evidence" is not evidence. You are copying some gossip and snippets of phrases here. This is exactly the crap that Russian propaganda does.
How many Republicans are against the bill to help Ukraine will only be seen after voting on Saturday. But this won’t say anything either. Some Republicans are concerned not with Ukraine, but with other issues. Protecting the US borders is an issue of the same importance as assistance to Ukraine. The lousy Democrats have endangered the security of the United States with their cretin policies. Hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists illegally enter the United States. Biden should be put in the electric chair! The Democratic Party needs to be banned!

These are not "lies and propaganda" from the Democrats. These are statements from maga members, rallying their troops in an attempt to block the pro-Ukraine bill you endorsed.
Don't worry, the bill will pass with almost unanimous Democratic support as it passed in the US House Rules Committee, when all Democrats voted in favor. I suppose they are falling into that trap of yours and they didn't realize it.

You are so gullible that now you even buy into maga populist rhetoric.
Suddenly, you seem to care more about an unrelated migration into the US topic than about the ever-shrinking Ukrainian borders.
You now endorse and justify the position of those who want to reject the pro-Ukrainian bill that you endorsed.
Don't you see how foolish this is?

You are afraid to put your honor where your big mouth is, afraid to commit to and endorse your moronic statements. But you have no problem calling others cowards....

Fyi, here are more "lies and propoganda from Democrats" below, written by other maga members (sorry, I can only add max 4 attachments):
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 06:56
… and again, you have missed a point…
Donald Trump moans: ‘Why isn’t Europe giving more money to help Ukraine?’
https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-moan-why-europe-not-give-more-money-help-ukraine/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/donald-trump-moan-why-europe-not-give-more-money-help-ukraine/)
This article says the same thing that Trump said and what I published. If you have any objections, write in clear language.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 07:05
2. See the text below, explicitly forbidding the president to lift sanctions against russia without Congressional approval, before russia stops the aggression, pays compensations for it, and begins the reconstructuion of Ukraine under international supervison.
https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hr4175/BILLS-118hr4175ih.pdf (https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hr4175/BILLS-118hr4175ih.pdf)
This is all lies and propaganda of the Democrats. The whole world sees what useless sanctions the Democrats and Biden have imposed against Russia. These sanctions do not achieve their goal and do not weaken the Russians to win for Ukraine. All this is populism and beautiful words from the bas.tards of the Democrats.

This is meant to prevent trump from lifting the sanctions as soon as he seizes power, as part of his announced "plan" to "end the war in 24 hours".
This is why his maga loyalists are fighting against this common-sense law.
Everything you have written is a dirty lie and propaganda of cowardly democrats (friends of the Russians).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 07:08
Don't you see how foolish this is?
I see only dirty propaganda and lies from Democrats in all your posts. You get paid for this, so you write the same thing every day.
I have already spoken on all this issue in a language understandable to all readers.
I'm leaving you alone.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 19, 2024, 07:43
2. See the text below, explicitly forbidding the president to lift sanctions against russia without Congressional approval, before russia stops the aggression, pays compensations for it, and begins the reconstructuion of Ukraine under international supervison.
https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hr4175/BILLS-118hr4175ih.pdf (https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hr4175/BILLS-118hr4175ih.pdf)
This is all lies and propaganda of the Democrats. The whole world sees what useless sanctions the Democrats and Biden have imposed against Russia. These sanctions do not achieve their goal and do not weaken the Russians to win for Ukraine. All this is populism and beautiful words from the bas.tards of the Democrats.

This is meant to prevent trump from lifting the sanctions as soon as he seizes power, as part of his announced "plan" to "end the war in 24 hours".
This is why his maga loyalists are fighting against this common-sense law.
Everything you have written is a dirty lie and propaganda of cowardly democrats (friends of the Russians).
Look closer. The bill is introduced by an old-school Republican, Michael McCaul, whom you praised before. He is one of the authors of that paper on Ukraine strategy that you endorsed here. Now the guy is spreading lies and propaganda for the Democrats! Right... right...

JD Vance, with his statement below, is a maga member. You also endorsed the op-ed he published in the New York Times.
In your head, now maga members are spreading lies and propaganda for the Democrats... right... right...

You don't even care about logic and facts in the face of this torrent of overwhelming evidence, all coming exclusively from maga members.

All you can do is cover your ears and repeat the same stupidity like a petulant child.

(https://media.tenor.com/RweL2vnlbSoAAAAM/dumb-and-dumber-yell.gif)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 19, 2024, 08:16
… Bram was a mistery for me, but it seems that he is working for both sides…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 19, 2024, 08:37
… Bram was a mistery for me, but it seems that he is working for both sides…

A useful idiot or useful fool is a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 19, 2024, 09:35
… in boredom… but some are having fun here, obviously… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 19, 2024, 09:46
Wilm, I still hope that, even if they are a minority inside the GOP now, there are still enough old-school Republicans left in Congress so that together with an almost unanimous pro-Ukraine vote from the Democrats, the bill will pass.

maga and trump are indeed an existential threat for Ukraine.

Another example (see below): JD Vance, another maga representative, the same who wrote that Op-Ed in the NY Times justifying how Ukraine should give putin what he wants in exchange for an illusory peace (mentioned a few pages ago), is against the REPO Act meant to seize russian assets and give them to Ukraine, being concerned that it will remove trump's ability to negotiate with putin!
JD Vance is instead trying to convince his colleagues to protect putin's billions.

And stoker still needs proofs...

Yes, some members of the Republican Party want to show off and are engaged in populism. But only Democratic trolls can inflate all this nonsense to the level of a worldwide Republican conspiracy against Ukraine. You are funny.


That's absolutely crazy.

Everything is black or white with you. All Russians are orcs. All Europeans are parasites. Everything that suits you is correct - everything that doesn't suit you comes from the KGB and is propaganda.

And now you're making an exception in your completely entrenched world view? A few members of the Republicans? Why are you suddenly able to differentiate?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 19, 2024, 09:52
The way I see it, there will never be any weapons from the USA for Ukraine that would make it possible to attack Russia directly and on a large scale. Anyone with even half a normal mind can imagine what that would lead to. The Democrats know that, the Republicans know that.
 
Therefore, from my point of view, there are two perspectives:

- The hope that at some point the Republicans will at least release the delivery of the large aid package with defense weapons (which is already failing and will become an even bigger problem if the Republicans should not win the election)

- Trump's negotiations with his buddy Putin, which will at least result in the recognition of Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk as Russian territories. 

In the second case, Trump will spin it rhetorically by claiming that he had no other negotiating option because Putin wants compensation for the losses from the arms deliveries that the Democrats were able to push through. In short: Trump will say that we could have negotiated better from Ukraine's point of view if Ukraine had not resisted. But the Democrats prevented this by supplying weapons. And then he will pat himself on the back:

 - he was able to blame the Democrats for Ukraine having to cede territory to Russia

 - from his point of view, the conflict has been resolved, as he had promised
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 09:53
Burns: Ukraine could lose by end of 2024

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/18/burns-ukraine-aid-2024-00153129 (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/18/burns-ukraine-aid-2024-00153129)
_____

1. There is no trust in Burns in Ukraine. He also works for the Democrats (=Russians).
2. Without F16 and long-range missiles, the fate of Ukraine depends only on luck and the stupidity of the Russian orcs.
3. US aid may be accepted on Saturday, but if the bas.tard Biden does not allow long-range missiles to be delivered to Ukraine, this aid will be of very little use.
4. Now the Russians are striking the Ukrainian Armed Forces with air bombs weighing 500 kg each. Without the F16, such attacks are extremely difficult to repel, I would say not possible.

Conclusion: Ukraine needs not only the help that the idiot democrats are shouting about. Ukraine needs aviation and long-range missiles. The only hope is for Trump to win the election.
Conclusion 2: I don’t think that Ukraine will lose the war in the time frame this Burns is talking about. But fighting without aviation and long-range missiles is not right (to put it mildly).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 09:56
Wilm, I still hope that, even if they are a minority inside the GOP now, there are still enough old-school Republicans left in Congress so that together with an almost unanimous pro-Ukraine vote from the Democrats, the bill will pass.

maga and trump are indeed an existential threat for Ukraine.

Another example (see below): JD Vance, another maga representative, the same who wrote that Op-Ed in the NY Times justifying how Ukraine should give putin what he wants in exchange for an illusory peace (mentioned a few pages ago), is against the REPO Act meant to seize russian assets and give them to Ukraine, being concerned that it will remove trump's ability to negotiate with putin!
JD Vance is instead trying to convince his colleagues to protect putin's billions.

And stoker still needs proofs...

Yes, some members of the Republican Party want to show off and are engaged in populism. But only Democratic trolls can inflate all this nonsense to the level of a worldwide Republican conspiracy against Ukraine. You are funny.


That's absolutely crazy.

Everything is black or white with you. All Russians are orcs. All Europeans are parasites. Everything that suits you is correct - everything that doesn't suit you comes from the KGB and is propaganda.

And now you're making an exception in your completely entrenched world view? A few members of the Republicans? Why are you suddenly able to differentiate?
"All Russians are orcs. Many Europeans are parasites."
+100

I know the goals of the Republicans, so their actions are clear to me.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 10:00
The way I see it, there will never be any weapons from the USA for Ukraine that would make it possible to attack Russia directly and on a large scale. Anyone with even half a normal mind can imagine what that would lead to. The Democrats know that, the Republicans know that.
 
Therefore, from my point of view, there are two perspectives:

- The hope that at some point the Republicans will at least release the delivery of the large aid package with defense weapons (which is already failing and will become an even bigger problem if the Republicans should not win the election)

- Trump's negotiations with his buddy Putin, which will at least result in the recognition of Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk as Russian territories. 

In the second case, Trump will spin it rhetorically by claiming that he had no other negotiating option because Putin wants compensation for the losses from the arms deliveries that the Democrats were able to push through. In short: Trump will say that we could have negotiated better from Ukraine's point of view if Ukraine had not resisted. But the Democrats prevented this by supplying weapons. And then he will pat himself on the back:

 - he was able to blame the Democrats for Ukraine having to cede territory to Russia

 - from his point of view, the conflict has been resolved, as he had promised
1. There is no such thing as a defensive weapon when an army is attacking you using all types of conventional weapons (conventional for now).
2. The Russians' goal is to occupy all of Ukraine and many EU countries. Therefore, any capitulation of Ukraine will only be temporary. In a few months, the Russians will create another provocation, blame the Ukrainian Armed Forces and continue the offensive. You are repeating what Democrats have said about Trump. It's a lie.
3. You perceive Ukraine as a Europarasite. It is not right. Trump or Scholz or Merkel cannot order Ukraine to sign a surrender or stop fighting. This was only possible when the KGB agent Poroshenko was the president of Ukraine.
I see that Kyiv and Ukrainian society have decided to fight to the end, and even without weapons.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 12:37
(https://static.dw.com/image/52771028_1004.webp)

Azov Brigade asks to be removed from blacklists blocking supply of Western weapons

Denys Prokopenko, the Commander of the Azov Assault Brigade, has called for the brigade to be removed from the US Appropriations Bill, which prohibits Azov from receiving Western weaponry.

Quote: "Nonsense. That’s the first word that comes to mind in the context of the current ban on supplying Azov with Western weapons…

Since 2017, and to this day, a number of US Consolidated Appropriations Bills have contained the following amendment: ‘None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to provide arms, training, or other assistance to the Azov Battalion’. It is also present in this year's Defence Appropriation Bill [...].

I emphasise that the very existence of such amendments and prohibitions not only prevents Azov from performing its combat missions more effectively, but is a blow to the defence capability of our country, tarnishes Ukraine's image on the international level, and is humiliating for the entire Ukrainian army."

Details: Prokopenko stressed that the amendment was added to the bills without any proof, relying solely on the word of the Western media, which formed their opinion under the influence of Russian propaganda.

This amendment is the reason why Azov was not equipped with the most advanced Western-supplied weapons during the defence of Mariupol in 2022.

Even after the 2022 full-scale invasion, the amendment has prevented Azov from sending its soldiers to most of the leading Western military exercises and from receiving the vitally needed weapons that the Allies provide to Ukraine.

There is no evidence or confirmation of the lies that Russian propaganda has been spreading about Azov for the past 10 years.

Nowadays, delegations of Azov soldiers are welcomed in the United States and Europe. Azov members have met with representatives of the US Congress and human rights organisations, and have delivered speeches at the UN, the Council of Europe, and leading Western universities.

Prokopenko stressed that Azov is welcomed at the highest level throughout the West, yet it is still not given weapons.

The commander added that Azov was the first military unit in Ukraine to adopt NATO standards on its own initiative: "With no Western weapons, we have become one of the most combat-ready units in the country in 10 years."

Prokopenko called for Azov to be removed from the US Appropriations Bill and all blacklists.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/19/7452026/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/19/7452026/)
_________
+100

Glory to Ukraine!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 12:46
Get that idiot Biden to jail quickly!
His words make it possible for China to occupy the Pacific region.

 :o :o :o

‘Lost for words’: Joe Biden’s tale about cannibals bemuses Papua New Guinea residents

President’s suggestion that his ‘Uncle Bosie’ was eaten by cannibals harms US efforts to build Pacific ties, say local experts


Joe Biden’s suggestion that his uncle may have been eaten by cannibals in Papua New Guinea during world war two has been met with a mixture of bemusement and criticism in the country.

Analysts in Papua New Guinea who were shown his comments described the claims as unsubstantiated and poorly judged, pointing out that they come at a time when US has been seeking to strengthen its ties with the country, and counter Chinese influence in the Pacific region.

“The Melanesian group of people, who Papua New Guinea is part of, are a very proud people,” said Michael Kabuni, a lecturer in political science at the University of Papua New Guinea. “And they would find this kind of categorisation very offensive. Not because someone says ‘oh there used to be cannibalism in PNG’ – yes, we know that, that’s a fact.

“But taking it out of context, and implying that your [uncle] jumps out of the plane and somehow we think it’s a good meal is unacceptable.”

About 79,000 US soldiers remain unaccounted following the second world war, Kabuni added. “They’re spread from south-east Asia to the Korean peninsula and Europe. What is [Biden] implying? All 79,000 that were never found were eaten?”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/19/joe-biden-uncle-bosie-cannibals-eaten-papua-new-guinea (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/19/joe-biden-uncle-bosie-cannibals-eaten-papua-new-guinea)
____
Biden - fuck you! Idiot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 19, 2024, 12:48
… only X-fighters or few NCCs, if possible 1701 could help in this phase of war….
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 12:51
Volodymyr Zelenskyy, President of Ukraine, has made a speech at a Ukraine-NATO council and urged Ukraine’s partners to supply Ukraine with the armament it needs as soon as possible.

Zelenskyy also insists that Ukraine must receive long-range weapons and aircraft.

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 19, 2024, 13:19
… not going to happen, soon… lot of trust have been already lost with previous promisses… simpy you have to understand giving that that kind of weapons to Ukraine is not in USAs and EUs interest… and the whole world…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 15:43
We are all looking at the mental abilities of the current US President Biden.  ;D

Joey Mannarino

@JoeyMannarinoUS
“How did we get to the point where Putin decided he was just going to invade Russia?” - Joe Biden

There is no way this man is fit to lead the United States.

I wouldn’t even let him call out numbers at BINGO.

https://twitter.com/JoeyMannarinoUS/status/1781047756506771835

+100

Biden! Leave the White House immediately. If you don’t know where the doors are, Trump will lead you out himself.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 19, 2024, 15:46
So, trolls from the US Democratic Party are convincing people to vote for the crazy Biden.
Democratic trolls = enemies of the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 19, 2024, 16:49
So, trolls from the US Democratic Party are convincing people to vote for the crazy Biden.
Democratic trolls = enemies of the USA.

The Democrats just saved your country. You should kiss the ground they walk on.

"With rare bipartisan momentum, the House pushed ahead Friday on a foreign aid package of $95 billion for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan and humanitarian support as a robust coalition of lawmakers helped it clear a procedural hurdle to reach final votes this weekend. Friday’s vote produced a seldom-seen outcome in the typically hyper-partisan House, with Democrats helping Republican Speaker Mike Johnson’s plan advance overwhelmingly 316-94. Final House approval could come this weekend, when the package would be sent to the Senate.

In an extremely rare step, the members of the House Rules Committee joined forces late Thursday in a near midnight vote, the four Democrats giving their support on a procedural step, to push past the Republican majority's three hard-line holdouts to send the package to the House floor for debate on a 9-3 vote. It was a moment unseen in recent House memory."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 19, 2024, 17:02
Biden-appointed CIA Director spoke out the day before:

"CIA Director Bill Burns on Thursday warned that unless US sends more military support, Ukraine could “lose” the war against Russia by the end of the year.

His comments mark one of the starkest warnings to date from the Biden administration on the stakes in Ukraine as Congress debates whether to approve a long-delayed aid package to Kyiv."
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 19, 2024, 21:04
So, trolls from the US Democratic Party are convincing people to vote for the crazy Biden.
Democratic trolls = enemies of the USA.

The Democrats just saved your country. You should kiss the ground they walk on.

"With rare bipartisan momentum, the House pushed ahead Friday on a foreign aid package of $95 billion for Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan and humanitarian support as a robust coalition of lawmakers helped it clear a procedural hurdle to reach final votes this weekend. Friday’s vote produced a seldom-seen outcome in the typically hyper-partisan House, with Democrats helping Republican Speaker Mike Johnson’s plan advance overwhelmingly 316-94. Final House approval could come this weekend, when the package would be sent to the Senate.

In an extremely rare step, the members of the House Rules Committee joined forces late Thursday in a near midnight vote, the four Democrats giving their support on a procedural step, to push past the Republican majority's three hard-line holdouts to send the package to the House floor for debate on a 9-3 vote. It was a moment unseen in recent House memory."


This is great news for Ukraine! 👍
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 02:29
So, trolls from the US Democratic Party are convincing people to vote for the crazy Biden.
Democratic trolls = enemies of the USA.

The Democrats just saved your country. You should kiss the ground they walk on.
1. From the 11th minute, the representative of Ukraine in the United States says that the Democrats initially did everything so that assistance would not be provided to Ukraine. Democrats delayed voting on aid to Ukraine in October 2023. They did this in order to blame the Republicans.

https://youtu.be/JXgqphJZiQc

2. Democrats are obliged to provide assistance to Ukraine according to the Budapest memorandum.

3. This aid has not yet been voted on. Voting will only take place today. And we will see whether it will be accepted. In any case, Biden helped putin force elections in russia while Ukraine did not have enough weapons to attack. Biden has fulfilled his agreements with putin to support russia. Now, of course, they will provide some assistance to Ukraine.

4. There is only $15 billion worth of military aid there. This is very, very little.

5. I hope the Republicans will investigate the Democrats' ties to the Russians and begin legal proceedings against Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 20, 2024, 09:15
… yes, that is so little money…and when lot of that dissapears without a trace, in someone pockets…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 09:18
… yes, that is so little money…and when lot of that dissapears without a trace, in someone pockets…
It is not the money that goes to Ukraine, but the weapons purchased with that money. You can't hide weapons in your pockets.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 09:20
 ;D ;D ;D

Ukrainian defenders down Russian Tu-22M3 strategic bomber for the first time – video

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/1/d/1d723d9-919efea-litak_690x387.avif)

Ukraine’s Air Force and Defence Intelligence of Ukraine have destroyed a Russian Tu-22M3 long-range strategic bomber that carries Kh-22 cruise missiles.

"For the first time, anti-aircraft missile units of the Air Force, in cooperation with Defence Intelligence of Ukraine, have brought down a Tu-22M3 long-range strategic bomber – a carrier of Kh-22 cruise missiles, which Russian terrorists use to hit peaceful Ukrainian cities. During today's attack, two such missiles were downed for the first time."

Burns beautifully (follow the link and watch the video)  ;D ;D ;D
https://twitter.com/i/status/1781180305556029936 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1781180305556029936)

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/19/7451934/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/19/7451934/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 20, 2024, 10:14
… KGB propaganda, no proofs attached…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 20, 2024, 10:18
… it seems that weapons might be a minor problem…

Military recruitment officer was attacked by locals and he had to open fire.

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1781692194685850108
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 11:06
Zelenskyy: Ukraine will not retreat, Putin is afraid of us

Quote: "Believe me, Putin is very much afraid of us, I am sure of it. Because he is an insecure person. Confident people with a large army and great power, with so much in the way of natural mineral resources, don’t threaten the world with nuclear weapons; brave people don’t threaten civilisation, the Earth’s existence and all living things with nuclear weapons. So for me, this guy’s psychological type is completely clear. And knowing this, we shall stand firm in our stance."

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/20/7452162/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/20/7452162/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 11:10
UK intelligence analyses downing of Russian Tu-22M3 strategic bomber

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLl1TrGXIAABO_v?format=jpg&name=medium)

 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 11:16
Ukrainian drones attacked the Sentrneftprodukt oil base in the Smolensk region of russia at night.

russia is burning!

https://youtu.be/I9HUIBZ_eEA (https://youtu.be/I9HUIBZ_eEA)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 20, 2024, 11:24
The Rada plans to introduce military censorship in Ukraine
https://pledgetimes.com/the-rada-plans-to-introduce-military-censorship-in-ukraine/

… Bram, are they adressing you in this one…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 11:54
The Rada plans to introduce military censorship in Ukraine
https://pledgetimes.com/the-rada-plans-to-introduce-military-censorship-in-ukraine/
These are events aimed at eliminating Russian propaganda, KGB agents and disinformation.
Also, under martial law in Ukraine, there are some restrictions on the rights and liberties of citizens. Those who violate established rules are punished.
For example, a person films the movement of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or posts on the Internet a video of the destruction of a Russian missile or the result of a hit by a Russian missile. For such offenses people are sent to prison.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 12:36
Blinken says China is Russia's primary military complex supplier

CAPRI/WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken criticised on Friday Chinese support for Russia's defence industry, saying Beijing was currently the primary contributor to Moscow's war in Ukraine though its provision of critical components for weaponry.
He said this effort was fueling "the biggest threat to European security since the end of the Cold War."
Speaking at a news conference capping the end of a gathering of G7 foreign ministers on the Italian island of Capri, Blinken said Washington had made it very clear to Beijing and others that they should not be aiding Russia's war effort in Ukraine.
"When it comes to Russia's defense industrial base the primary contributor in this moment to that is China. We see China sharing machine tools, semiconductors, other dual use items that have helped Russia rebuild the defense industrial base," Blinken said.
"China can't have it both ways. It can't afford that. You want to have positive, friendly relations with countries in Europe, and at the same time, you are fueling the biggest threat to European security since the end of the Cold War," Blinken said.
The U.S. has warned China not to aid Moscow's war effort since Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, which came just weeks after Russia and China declared a "no limits partnership."
German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock echoed Blinken's concerns.
"If China openly pursues an ever closer partnership with Russia, which is waging an illegal war against Ukraine, ... we cannot accept this," Baerbock said after a meeting with her G7 counterparts in Capri.
U.S. officials briefed reporters earlier this month on materials China was providing to Russia, including drone and missile technology, satellite imagery and machine tools, that fall short of providing lethal assistance but were helping Russia build up its military to sustain its two-year-old war in Ukraine.
A Chinese embassy spokesperson told Reuters at the time that China was not a party to the Ukraine crisis and that normal trade between China and Russia should not be interfered with or restricted.
President Joe Biden raised the issue with Chinese President Xi Jinping in a phone call earlier this month, after which U.S. officials said Blinken would travel to China in the coming weeks. Details of Blinken's trip have not yet been announced.

https://www.reuters.com/world/blinken-says-china-is-russias-primary-military-complex-supplier-2024-04-19/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/blinken-says-china-is-russias-primary-military-complex-supplier-2024-04-19/)
_________
Democrats - where are the sanctions against China? The EU is the same.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 20, 2024, 13:28
I can already predict that a vast majority (maybe even an unanimity) of Democrats will vote in favor of that long-overdue and delayed (by the GoP) bill
But I'm not sure about that. You still haven’t understood the mine that the Republicans have laid in this bill to target the Democrats.
Long-range ATACMS missiles are what the democrats (friends of the Russians) do not want to give to Ukraine. The Democrats have an agreement with putin.
Well, let's see how many Democrats vote this time.  ;D

That prediction, which was obvious to anyone with sufficient brain circumvolutions, came true!

The maga majority in what we still call the Republican Party voted against Ukraine, while Democrats voted unanimously in favor of it.

Let me remind our stoker this:
Are you ready to bet that MTG and your maga darlings who call Ukrainains na*zis will vote against the pro-Ukraine bill?
Are you ready to bet that a vast majority of Democrats will vote in favor of it?
It could have been an easy bet to win if the stoker had had the balls to put his money/honor where his big mouth is. And he is calling others cowards...

Even more: Democrats cheered and waved Ukrainian flags during the vote.
And check this clip with stoker's maga darling, MTG (aka "Moscow Taylor Greene") giving thumbs down to all those Ukrainian flags:
https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1781744775768551537 (https://twitter.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1781744775768551537)

But I guess ALL Democrats and a minority of old-school Republicans fell into the trap only seen by a few Illuminati, like our stoker.
And I am waiting to see how putin's useful idiots will argue again that Ukraine doesn't need all this support.

Anyway....Great News!
🇺🇦Slava Ukraini!!!🇺🇦

PS: "I urge the Senate to quickly send this package to my desk so that I can sign it into law and we can quickly send weapons and equipment to Ukraine to meet their urgent battlefield needs" <- Biden
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 20, 2024, 15:21
Trump's ties to Putin & Russia:

In 1980, the KGB first began cultivating Trump as an intelligence asset when Semyon Kislin, a Soviet émigré who co-owned the Joy-Lud electronics store in New York, sold Trump hundreds of TV sets for a new hotel - according to Yuri Shvets, a former major in the KGB.

In 1984, a year after opening Trump Tower, Donald Trump sold five condos in his glitzy luxury high rise in an all-cash transaction of $6 million ($28 million in today's dollars) to David Bogatin, an alleged member of the Russian mafia. According to the New York State attorney general’s office, Trump had, knowingly or not, just laundered money for the Russian mob.

In July 1987, the KGB orchestrated Trump’s first trip to the Soviet Union. According to Shvets, the letter inviting Trump was written at the behest of Ivan Gromakov, a KGB general in the First Chief Directorate’s rezidentura in Washington. In late summer 1987, just weeks after returning from the Soviet Union, Trump began an abortive campaign to win the 1988 Republican nomination and set up appearances in New Hampshire for the primary season.

Later in 1987, full-page ads voicing KGB talking points were printed in the Boston Globe, The Washington Post, and The New York Times under the headline, “There’s Nothing Wrong With America’s Foreign Defense Policy That a Little Backbone Can’t Cure.”  The ads put forth a foreign policy that called for the dismantling of the postwar Western alliance and the end of NATO. They took the form of an open letter to the American people “on why America should stop paying to defend countries that can afford to defend themselves.” The ads were signed by Donald Trump, as part of his abortive presidential campaign.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, Trump had one business failure after another in airlines, football, and other sectors as he overexpanded into Atlantic City casinos and accumulated enormous debt. In 2002, the Bayrock Group, a real estate firm staffed by émigrés from Russia and the former Soviet Union, began to bail Trump out with lucrative schemes that paid huge sums to license his name for luxury condos. In the wake of the 2008 fiscal crisis, Trump expanded into developing golf courses. According to his son, Eric Trump, the funding came from Russia. In 2013, Trump staged the Miss Universe Pageant in Moscow, financed and produced by Aras Agalarov, a Putin-aligned oligarch.

On March 29, 2016, Paul Manafort joined the Trump campaign as campaign manager. Manafort begun working for Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska in 2004. On June 9, 2016, Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort met with several Russian operatives, including Emin Agalarov and Natalia Veselnitskaya, in Trump Tower in hopes of getting dirt on Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.

On October 11, 2016, Donald Trump Jr. was paid $50,000 plus to give a speech in Paris sponsored by Center of Political and Foreign Affairs, a French think tank that is said to be a Russian front.

Afterward, according to The Wall Street Journal, the CPFA’s Randa Kassis told Don Jr. that it was essential to cooperate with Russia in the Middle East. As Kassis explained in a Facebook post, “I succeeded to pass [to] Trump, through the talks with his son, the idea of how we can cooperate together to reach the agreement between Russia and the United States on Syria.” Later, in 2019, President Trump did exactly as the Russians hoped, removing U.S. troops from northern Syria and leaving Russia as the clear winner.

On May 10, 2017, after firing FBI Director James Comey for investigating his ties with the Russians, Trump celebrated in the Oval Office with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak.

On July 16, 2018, in Helsinki, Trump met with Putin and defended Russia against the U.S. intelligence community’s finding that Russia interfered in America’s 2016 presidential election. “President Putin says it’s not Russia,” Trump said. “I don’t see any reason why it would be.”

When Putin invaded Ukraine, Trump replied, “This is genius.… Here’s a guy who’s very savvy.… I know him very well. Very, very well."

https://youtu.be/gNxvSxaGeDE



Biden's ties to Putin:

https://youtu.be/uoPuabDhSuI

 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 15:40
🇺🇦Slava Ukraini!!!🇺🇦

Glory to the heroes!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 15:48
Biden's ties to Putin:
Biden in Moscow, during the times of the USSR and the KGB. You can’t tell from him that he has a bad attitude towards the fascist country.

(https://meduza.io/impro/Xaeloc7B4xyELxTX3kr45TUwRsjdOeMESHy34kVoG2E/resizing_type:fit/width:980/height:0/enlarge:1/quality:80/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWR1/emEuaW8vaW1hZ2Uv/YXR0YWNobWVudHMv/aW1hZ2VzLzAwNi8x/NTIvNzM4L29yaWdp/bmFsL1pGdmt0SGtR/Q09ORUdVQUtQRjUy/M0EuanBn.webp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 15:50
AM24, all your incriminating evidence does not have a link to the source. And as you yourself said, if there is no source, then everything you wrote is worth nothing, zero.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 20, 2024, 15:54
AM24, all your incriminating evidence does not have a link to the source.

Google it. Its all there. If you had been paying attention over the past years you would remember a lot of these things being exposed at the time.

To make it easier for you, I've gone back and bolded all the relevant points that you can google.  ;D


or you could follow this trail:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/connections-trump-putin-russia-ties-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868/ (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/connections-trump-putin-russia-ties-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868/)


But the truth is, this information is not for you. Your response is not relevant to me. Its for any pro-Trump people who are misguided into thinking you are telling the truth. I am not democrat or republican. There are a lot of great republican politicians out there, but all the Trump lies need to stop in order to protect democracy - across the whole world.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 20, 2024, 16:08
And as for your comments above about October 2023, here's Biden's actual words:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-suggests-democrats-have-new-deal-with-republicans-ukraine-aid-2023-10-01/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-suggests-democrats-have-new-deal-with-republicans-ukraine-aid-2023-10-01/)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 20, 2024, 16:37
Recently, I have read about a fake YouTube channel that claims to be pro-Ukrainian, but the content presented there is absurd and there are accusations that its fundraisers are fake.

So, now I think that is very likely that stoker2014 is a russian troll. And I think he should be treated as such. I mean, how can a normal person post such stupidities multiple times per day? Most importantly, the individual behind the nick stoker2014 attacks Ukraine's allies and promotes the agenda of those who oppose aid for Ukraine. He blatantly ignores what official Ukrainian sources have to say.

This is a top russian propagandist and stocker's idol explaining why facts don't matter:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c7uf1e/olga_skabeyeva_a_russian_top_propagandist/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c7uf1e/olga_skabeyeva_a_russian_top_propagandist/)

This why I find the very idea of the so-called 'russian world' disgusting, it is filled with nihilism, it is evil to the core. Just like for Skabaeva, facts don't matter for stoker2014, he will spin any facts to match his degenerated propaganda based on lies and delusions. Stoker2014 attempts to muddy the waters with his intellectual excrements that he tirelessly posts in this space.

So, from now on, I will consider stoker2014 a russian troll that claims to be pro-Ukrainian but acts against the interests of Ukraine. 
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 20, 2024, 17:14
Biden's ties to Putin:
Biden in Moscow, during the times of the USSR and the KGB. You can’t tell from him that he has a bad attitude towards the fascist country.

You can only tell this:

Choosing to make selective choices among competing evidence, so as to emphasize those results that support a given position, while ignoring or dismissing any findings that do not support it, is a practice known as "cherry picking" and is a hallmark of poor science or pseudo-science

See below, many American presidents showing the same "bad attitude" during their official visits in Moscow.
But only in your head all this means that they were pro-russia.



Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 18:01
AM24, all your incriminating evidence does not have a link to the source.

Google it. Its all there.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/connections-trump-putin-russia-ties-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868/ (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/03/connections-trump-putin-russia-ties-chart-flynn-page-manafort-sessions-214868/)

A link to Google is of course a very serious source. And what sites will Google take me to - Russian ones or sites where Democrats write lies?  ;D ;D ;D
You think Biden and the Democrats have no ties to putin  ;D
As for the article in politico, this article may well be custom-made, and most likely it is.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 18:02
And as for your comments above about October 2023, here's Biden's actual words:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-suggests-democrats-have-new-deal-with-republicans-ukraine-aid-2023-10-01/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-suggests-democrats-have-new-deal-with-republicans-ukraine-aid-2023-10-01/)
Everything Biden says is a lie! Everything the Democrats say is a lie! Ukraine has a different opinion and I have already given a link to the opinion of Ukrainian deputies and experts today.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 18:03
Recently, I have read about a fake YouTube channel that claims to be pro-Ukrainian, but the content presented there is absurd and there are accusations that its fundraisers are fake.

So, now I think that is very likely that stoker2014 is a russian troll. And I think he should be treated as such. I mean, how can a normal person post such stupidities multiple times per day? Most importantly, the individual behind the nick stoker2014 attacks Ukraine's allies and promotes the agenda of those who oppose aid for Ukraine. He blatantly ignores what official Ukrainian sources have to say.

So, from now on, I will consider stoker2014 a russian troll that claims to be pro-Ukrainian but acts against the interests of Ukraine.
This is what all useful putin idiots and Europarasites write.

Trump - crush the Europarasites!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 18:07
So, to everyone who is influenced by the lies and propaganda of the Democrats and believes that the Democrats voted for very strong aid to Ukraine. I recommend that all these people come to the war in Ukraine and, at the cost of their own lives, make sure, that all this help that US Democrats give does not solve much on the battlefield. There is no aviation, no long-range missiles, nothing to defend yourself with against Russian air bombs.
Go to Ukraine, you are welcome.
This bill has not yet passed all stages of voting in Congress and it is unknown when Biden will sign it. And the supply of long-range missiles to Ukraine is a big question. I am sure Biden will not do this or will supply a small amount.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 20, 2024, 18:10
Let's hope that Trump wins the election, and then Ukraine will be able to speak on an equal footing with the Europarasites.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 20, 2024, 18:16

So, now I think that is very likely that stoker2014 is a russian troll. And I think he should be treated as such. I mean, how can a normal person post such stupidities multiple times per day?
In my opinion, you are giving him too much credit. I don't think he is a troll.
Please remember that all of putin's useful idiots parrot his propaganda and it's hard to make the difference.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 20, 2024, 18:17
This bill has not yet passed all stages of voting in Congress and it is unknown when Biden will sign it.

The only ones who opposed it were your MAGA republican clowns!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 20, 2024, 18:21
Recently, I have read about a fake YouTube channel that claims to be pro-Ukrainian, but the content presented there is absurd and there are accusations that its fundraisers are fake.

So, now I think that is very likely that stoker2014 is a russian troll. And I think he should be treated as such. I mean, how can a normal person post such stupidities multiple times per day? Most importantly, the individual behind the nick stoker2014 attacks Ukraine's allies and promotes the agenda of those who oppose aid for Ukraine. He blatantly ignores what official Ukrainian sources have to say.

This is a top russian propagandist and stocker's idol explaining why facts don't matter:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c7uf1e/olga_skabeyeva_a_russian_top_propagandist/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c7uf1e/olga_skabeyeva_a_russian_top_propagandist/)

This why I find the very idea of the so-called 'russian world' disgusting, it is filled with nihilism, it is evil to the core. Just like for Skabaeva, facts don't matter for stoker2014, he will spin any facts to match his degenerated propaganda based on lies and delusions. Stoker2014 attempts to muddy the waters with his intellectual excrements that he tirelessly posts in this space.

So, from now on, I will consider stoker2014 a russian troll that claims to be pro-Ukrainian but acts against the interests of Ukraine.

Thanks for this.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 20, 2024, 19:47
This bill has not yet passed all stages of voting in Congress and it is unknown when Biden will sign it.

Just empty words, because you must say something even when you have nothing to say. You persist in your delusions instead of graciously accepting that you were wrong.

So let's go again:
I can easily predict that the Senate Democrats will approve this bill with virtual unanimity.

I can also predict that enough old-school republicans will join them so that this bill will pass.

I can also predict that maga clowns (Rand Paul, JD Vance, Josh Hawley, etc) will oppose this bill.

I can also predict that Biden will approve it with absolutely no delays and the bill you endorsed will become law.

You're welcome!

Now, remember MTG, aka "Moscow" Taylor Greene? The same MTG you defended and endorsed after she called Ukrainians na*zis?
If so, then pray for Ukraine's savior, Mike Johnson, since all anti-Ukraine maga clowns led by your darling MTG, now want his "traitor" head on a spike.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 20, 2024, 20:59
AM24, all your incriminating evidence does not have a link to the source.

Google it. Its all there.



A link to Google is of course a very serious source. And what sites will Google take me to - Russian ones or sites where Democrats write lies?  ;D ;D ;D
You think Biden and the Democrats have no ties to putin  ;D
As for the article in politico, this article may well be custom-made, and most likely it is.

Do you enjoy reading?

Here are 186 sources for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials)

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 20, 2024, 23:24
And as for your comments above about October 2023, here's Biden's actual words:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-suggests-democrats-have-new-deal-with-republicans-ukraine-aid-2023-10-01/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-suggests-democrats-have-new-deal-with-republicans-ukraine-aid-2023-10-01/)
Everything Biden says is a lie! Everything the Democrats say is a lie! Ukraine has a different opinion and I have already given a link to the opinion of Ukrainian deputies and experts today.
… almost every politician tell lies when needed… some of them, like you, even can’t tell anything else… by time, like you dear Bram, they lose any connection with a reality… and then they float inside their imaginary bubble world, deaf and blind…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 03:30
This bill has not yet passed all stages of voting in Congress and it is unknown when Biden will sign it.

The only ones who opposed it were your MAGA republican clowns!
They are not clowns, they are American patriots. The issue of the US borders has not been resolved, and hundreds of thousands of enemies are entering the US through these borders. These enemies then vote for the Democrats (friends of the Russians). This assistance to Ukraine has no strategic plan, which means the money will be wasted. Military assistance is small. There is no Lend Lease, no aviation.

Ukrainians' opinion:
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXZWtDdZ/1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vk6D9gnL/2.png)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 03:37
AM24, all your incriminating evidence does not have a link to the source.

Google it. Its all there.



A link to Google is of course a very serious source. And what sites will Google take me to - Russian ones or sites where Democrats write lies?  ;D ;D ;D
You think Biden and the Democrats have no ties to putin  ;D
As for the article in politico, this article may well be custom-made, and most likely it is.

Do you enjoy reading?

Here are 186 sources for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials)
A lie written 186 times does not become the truth. Wikipedia is a site where anyone can write any lie.
If there was any truth there, Trump would have been in prison a long time ago. The whole world sees that cowardly Democrats are bringing ridiculous charges against Trump in court, some women, some money to these women, etc. That's all the idiot Democrats could dig up about Trump.
Or, the Democrats also work for the KGB and cover up the “spy” Trump.
You can choose what you like best.
Once again, until there is a court decision on the "spy" Trump, all your "evidence" is lies and propaganda of the Democrats.
I will also say that from your link I see the joint work of Russians and US democrats.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 04:07
Let's continue. The “effectiveness” of assistance from US Democrats can easily be checked over the next 1-2 months. There is a war, there is Ukraine, there is a front, there is a map of military operations. I am 99.9% sure that with the “help” that the US Democrats are giving, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will not be able to counterattack and may well even retreat.
And once again, for all those who believe in US democrats and in the invaluable assistance that the bas.tard Biden provides to Ukraine, I recommend coming to Ukraine and joining the foreign legion as part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And there they will quickly tell and show you who the US Democrats are. Maybe some of these Democratic supporters will even remain alive, even if without legs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 21, 2024, 04:08

This assistance to Ukraine has no strategic plan, which means the money will be wasted. Military assistance is small. There is no Lend Lease, no aviation.

Ukrainians' opinion:

But, but, but... Ukainian's opinion:

Thanks to the US Republican Party, long-range ATACMS missiles were included in military assistance to Ukraine. This is already interesting. Such a bill needs to be passed;

Now, the bill you endorsed, which you wished to be passed, is passed but no longer good, only because 100% of the Democrats voted for it while your anti-Ukrainian maga darlings rejected it.

You caught your alter ego with his pants down. Congratulations!

PS. Moscow Taylor Greene (do you know her? The same clown your alter ego endorsed after she called Ukrainians na*zis) made even the NY Post front page.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 21, 2024, 04:15
… wasn’t Ukraine independent…?! Why depends on others help…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 21, 2024, 04:16
Elon Musk on new $61 billion U.S. military aid to Ukraine: “My biggest concern is that there is no exit strategy, just a forever war where kids die in trenches from artillery or charging machine guns and snipers through minefields.”

https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1781944181671280841
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 09:38
https://twitter.com/ECRoberts3/status/1782049658518286758
🇺🇸𝔓𝔞𝔱𝔯𝔦𝔬𝔱 ℭ𝔥𝔢𝔱🇺🇸
@ECRoberts3
This is not only a great post, but 100% accurate. Every single Ukrainian flag waving commie needs to be held as traitors to the United States of America 😡😡😡
______
Passions are heating up in the US. Communists are waving the Ukrainian flag. This is of course something new and at least an insult to Ukraine, where the Communist Party is banned. With this post I want to say this: Democrats are using Ukraine only to raise their ratings. Allocated money is just allocated money. Let's assume that the USA is a rich country and it can spend money as it wants.
The only thing that interests me in this “help” is long-range missiles. Will they be included in the final law, will Biden allocate them, and how many will he send to Ukraine?
All this, of course, is populism on which democrats and their trolls promote themselves. Many Ukrainians who understand what is happening are disgusted to look at all this.
Democrats! No need to wave Ukrainian flags! Better give Lend Lease, old weapons that you destroy and pay for it with money and aviation. But no, we need a show, without all of the above.
Of course I understand the Republicans who can't secure the US border because of the idiots of the Democrats.
In short, a feast during a plague, this is what is happening in the US Congress.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 09:48
Russia ups pressure on Bakhmut axis, including Chasiv Yar - Ukraine military.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3855039-russia-ups-pressure-on-bakhmut-axis-including-chasiv-yar-ukraine-military.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3855039-russia-ups-pressure-on-bakhmut-axis-including-chasiv-yar-ukraine-military.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 21, 2024, 10:05
Landkreise wollen keine Ukraine-Flüchtlinge mehr aufnehmen
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article251124262/Am-Limit-Landkreise-wollen-keine-Ukraine-Fluechtlinge-mehr-aufnehmen.html (https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article251124262/Am-Limit-Landkreise-wollen-keine-Ukraine-Fluechtlinge-mehr-aufnehmen.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 10:09
Landkreise wollen keine Ukraine-Flüchtlinge mehr aufnehmen
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article251124262/Am-Limit-Landkreise-wollen-keine-Ukraine-Fluechtlinge-mehr-aufnehmen.html (https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article251124262/Am-Limit-Landkreise-wollen-keine-Ukraine-Fluechtlinge-mehr-aufnehmen.html)
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 21, 2024, 10:37
https://twitter.com/ECRoberts3/status/1782049658518286758
🇺🇸𝔓𝔞𝔱𝔯𝔦𝔬𝔱 ℭ𝔥𝔢𝔱🇺🇸
@ECRoberts3
This is not only a great post, but 100% accurate. Every single Ukrainian flag waving commie needs to be held as traitors to the United States of America 😡😡😡


Just putin's apologists and putin's useful idiots being sore losers. Not surprisingly, their position is very similar to the position expressed by russian propagandists (see medvedev's statement below).

Any other normal person in the world would be proud to see the flag of their country becoming the symbol of freedom and fight against oppression and dictatorship...

But not brainwashed putin's useful idiots, who never had a problem with trump's and confederate flags waved inside the Capitol... or who defend and endorse maga clowns calling Ukrainians na*zis.

See this clip with what logical common sense Ukrainians have to say about yesterday’s events and a soldier's reaction to the vote, expressed in the Donbas defensive trenches (attached).

https://youtu.be/qwi9JCkI-ag
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 21, 2024, 11:23
Recently, I have read about a fake YouTube channel that claims to be pro-Ukrainian, but the content presented there is absurd and there are accusations that its fundraisers are fake.

So, now I think that is very likely that stoker2014 is a russian troll. And I think he should be treated as such. I mean, how can a normal person post such stupidities multiple times per day? Most importantly, the individual behind the nick stoker2014 attacks Ukraine's allies and promotes the agenda of those who oppose aid for Ukraine. He blatantly ignores what official Ukrainian sources have to say.

This is a top russian propagandist and stocker's idol explaining why facts don't matter:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c7uf1e/olga_skabeyeva_a_russian_top_propagandist/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1c7uf1e/olga_skabeyeva_a_russian_top_propagandist/)

This why I find the very idea of the so-called 'russian world' disgusting, it is filled with nihilism, it is evil to the core. Just like for Skabaeva, facts don't matter for stoker2014, he will spin any facts to match his degenerated propaganda based on lies and delusions. Stoker2014 attempts to muddy the waters with his intellectual excrements that he tirelessly posts in this space.

So, from now on, I will consider stoker2014 a russian troll that claims to be pro-Ukrainian but acts against the interests of Ukraine.

That's right: he's a Russian troll!

Anyone who insults everyone who helps in the way he does is trying to create a bad image of the people and mentality in Ukraine. He has been doing this for hundreds of pages now. He wants people to believe that Ukrainians are ungrateful, anti-democratic, extremely prejudiced and think in black and white.

At the same time, he is trying to praise to the skies those who will hand over Ukraine or parts of it to Putin.

The point is absolutely obvious. I'm certainly not falling for it.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 12:38
… wasn’t Ukraine independent…?! Why depends on others help…?!
What criteria must an independent country meet?
russia is waging war only because countries such as Iran, China, North Korea and Belarus supply it with millions of shells and weapons. Is russia an independent country?
The United States and European parasites supply very few weapons to Ukraine, practically tiny amount. Is Ukraine an independent country?
What country do you live in? Is this country independent?

Such issues need to be considered from the point of view of international law. Legally, Ukraine is an independent country. In fact, during the Third World War, assistance from the “allies” is normal and does not indicate that Ukraine is dependent.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 12:42
Ivanivske village, Bakhmut district. This is a village in which about two thousand Ukrainians lived, a village with beautiful landscapes. Now all that remains of the village is the foundation, the Russian orcs have completely destroyed everything there is, every square meter has been burned. Everything is destroyed.
Video:
https://t.me/shofront/632

This is the result of the policies of the Democrats and Biden over the past 3 years.

US Democrats - fuck you!
Biden - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 13:38
He wants people to believe that Ukrainians are ungrateful, anti-democratic, extremely prejudiced and think in black and white.
You're probably out of luck here, everyone. You probably met the wrong Ukrainian. There are probably correct Ukrainians, those who constantly bow to US democrats and European parasites and say thank you. And there are wrong Ukrainians who are not grateful for some reason. Therefore, you decided that all the wrong Ukrainians are not Ukrainians at all, but are Russian trolls.
What was there in Germany in the 30-40s of the last century? You got rid of the wrong people. For the purity of the nation!!!

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 13:43
Ex-Playboy model Karen McDougal tells her story about Donald Trump

https://youtu.be/xo2ISWrQAsU (https://youtu.be/xo2ISWrQAsU)

Trump is Casanova!

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 21, 2024, 16:53
Trump is Casanova!

 ;D ;D ;D
[/quote]

That's great information. I assume that's a very important quality for a president. And his family will love it too.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 21, 2024, 17:01
Who - apart from a Russian troll, of course - would post something like that?
Of course, the excuse will be that this was put into the media by the KGB and the Democrats...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 17:07
Trump is Casanova!

 ;D ;D ;D


That's great information. I assume that's a very important quality for a president. And his family will love it too.
The people of the United States will decide in the elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 17:09
Democrats...
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 21, 2024, 17:13
Who - apart from a Russian troll
Your low level of understanding of politics does not allow you to determine who the Russian troll is. I recommend taking a closer look at the posts of the author under the nickname "trucic".
But if you are a Europarasite, then this is already a diagnosis.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 21, 2024, 17:24
Who - apart from a Russian troll
Your low level of understanding of politics does not allow you to determine who the Russian troll is. I recommend taking a closer look at the posts of the author under the nickname "trucic".
But if you are a Europarasite, then this is already a diagnosis.

Have they taught you that stupid word "Europarasite" during a training for russian trolls?

Russian trolls often use neologisms like that...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 21, 2024, 20:06

So, now I think that is very likely that stoker2014 is a russian troll. And I think he should be treated as such. I mean, how can a normal person post such stupidities multiple times per day?
In my opinion, you are giving him too much credit. I don't think he is a troll.
Please remember that all of putin's useful idiots parrot his propaganda and it's hard to make the difference.

To genuinely claim that MAGA scumbags are pro-Ukrainian one would need an IQ in the region of common shoe sizes or to live in an alternative universe.

So, I think it is more likely that he is a somewhat unconventional version of a troll. Trying to ride on the popular support for Ukraine, while promoting the agenda of anti-Ukrainian factions.

Being a russian troll is of course also a sign of low intelligence, but in this case you could see some goal, even if the chosen methods seem perverse...

A typical person is unlikely to post countless stupidities tirelessly everyday, but trolls do that. And russian trolls actually may get paid for that.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 21, 2024, 20:14
Russian trolls from Olgino (ольгинские тролли) started to promote Trump in 2015:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency


Quote
The agency employed fake accounts registered on major social networking sites, discussion boards, online newspaper sites, and video hosting services to promote the Kremlin's interests in domestic and foreign policy including Ukraine and the Middle East as well as attempting to influence the 2016 United States presidential election. More than 1,000 employees reportedly worked in a single building of the agency in 2015.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 02:12
Who - apart from a Russian troll
Your low level of understanding of politics does not allow you to determine who the Russian troll is. I recommend taking a closer look at the posts of the author under the nickname "trucic".
But if you are a Europarasite, then this is already a diagnosis.

Have they taught you that stupid word "Europarasite" during a training for russian trolls?

Russian trolls often use neologisms like that...
I have never seen Russian trolls use such wording. You should provide a link to this. Otherwise your statement is false.
As far as I know, Trump uses a similar term.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 02:15
Russian trolls from Olgino (ольгинские тролли) started to promote Trump in 2015:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency


Quote
The agency employed fake accounts registered on major social networking sites, discussion boards, online newspaper sites, and video hosting services to promote the Kremlin's interests in domestic and foreign policy including Ukraine and the Middle East as well as attempting to influence the 2016 United States presidential election. More than 1,000 employees reportedly worked in a single building of the agency in 2015.
After Trump's victory, Russian trolls began a reverse campaign. All Russians were unhappy with Trump's anti-Russian policies.
Putin recently said twice that Biden is the best president for russia. So, following your logic, we must conclude that Biden is a KGB agent. +100

Yes, I heard that Russian trolls supported Trump in that election. But this could have several reasons:
1. Destabilization of the situation within the United States. Attempt. Clinton's servers were hacked and information was stolen.
2. Understanding that Trump is an enemy of the Russians.
3. The misconception that Trump is a friend of the Russians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 22, 2024, 02:23
I see you got up for work during morning hours in Olgino or elsewhere in Mordor, while it is still night in the US.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 22, 2024, 02:25
"2 + 2 = 17"

stoker2014, Russian troll from the early 21st century
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 22, 2024, 03:30
Russian trolls from Olgino (ольгинские тролли) started to promote Trump in 2015:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency


Quote
The agency employed fake accounts registered on major social networking sites, discussion boards, online newspaper sites, and video hosting services to promote the Kremlin's interests in domestic and foreign policy including Ukraine and the Middle East as well as attempting to influence the 2016 United States presidential election. More than 1,000 employees reportedly worked in a single building of the agency in 2015.

Putin recently said twice that Biden is the best president for russia.


Putin said in 2014 that he could take Kiev in 2 weeks if he wanted to.
Right? Wrong?
Putin said in February 2022 that a Russian invasion of Ukraine was provocative speculation by the West and pure "hysteria".
True? Wrong?
Putin says the Ukrainian government are *.
Is that right? Wrong?
Putin says the attack on Ukraine is pure self-defense.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says the Donbass is a sovereign region in which genocide must be prevented.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says the Ukrainian government is a puppet regime.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says that Russians, Belarusians and Ukraine are one people.
True? Wrong?

Putin says Biden is the best US president for the Russians.
Right? Wrong?



Once more: You are so blind that it hurts!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 03:41
I see you got up for work during morning hours in Olgino or elsewhere in Mordor, while it is still night in the US.
What time is it in Ukraine? Are Ukrainians Russian trolls?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 03:43
Russian trolls from Olgino (ольгинские тролли) started to promote Trump in 2015:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency


Quote
The agency employed fake accounts registered on major social networking sites, discussion boards, online newspaper sites, and video hosting services to promote the Kremlin's interests in domestic and foreign policy including Ukraine and the Middle East as well as attempting to influence the 2016 United States presidential election. More than 1,000 employees reportedly worked in a single building of the agency in 2015.

Putin recently said twice that Biden is the best president for russia.


Putin said in 2014 that he could take Kiev in 2 weeks if he wanted to.
Right? Wrong?
Putin said in February 2022 that a Russian invasion of Ukraine was provocative speculation by the West and pure "hysteria".
True? Wrong?
Putin says the Ukrainian government are *.
Is that right? Wrong?
Putin says the attack on Ukraine is pure self-defense.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says the Donbass is a sovereign region in which genocide must be prevented.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says the Ukrainian government is a puppet regime.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says that Russians, Belarusians and Ukraine are one people.
True? Wrong?

Putin says Biden is the best US president for the Russians.
Right? Wrong?
Once more: You are so blind that it hurts!

You need to go back to first grade in school and learn to read. I was responding to the phrase "Russian trolls from Olgino (Olgin's trolls) started to promote Trump in 2015:".
For the illiterate, I’ll explain that Trump’s advertising by trolls is no different from Biden’s advertising by putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 03:48
(https://meduza.io/impro/Xaeloc7B4xyELxTX3kr45TUwRsjdOeMESHy34kVoG2E/resizing_type:fit/width:980/height:0/enlarge:1/quality:80/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWR1/emEuaW8vaW1hZ2Uv/YXR0YWNobWVudHMv/aW1hZ2VzLzAwNi8x/NTIvNzM4L29yaWdp/bmFsL1pGdmt0SGtR/Q09ORUdVQUtQRjUy/M0EuanBn.webp)

I'll post this photo again. This is the USSR, 80s of the 20th century. The USSR was a fascist country. Biden smiles sincerely (against the background of a KGB agent), even though his interlocutor is not smiling. This photo is proof of the fact that Biden liked Russians early in his career. Biden supported the Russians and continues to support them. Most likely, he was already recruited by the KGB.
Biden! How much money did you sell the USA and democracy for?

Democratic trolls will say that it is not a KGB agent standing in the background, but a translator. To which I will say that the KGB agents knew English very well and always acted as translators at meetings of this level.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 22, 2024, 03:48
Russian trolls from Olgino (ольгинские тролли) started to promote Trump in 2015:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency


Quote
The agency employed fake accounts registered on major social networking sites, discussion boards, online newspaper sites, and video hosting services to promote the Kremlin's interests in domestic and foreign policy including Ukraine and the Middle East as well as attempting to influence the 2016 United States presidential election. More than 1,000 employees reportedly worked in a single building of the agency in 2015.

Putin recently said twice that Biden is the best president for russia.


Putin said in 2014 that he could take Kiev in 2 weeks if he wanted to.
Right? Wrong?
Putin said in February 2022 that a Russian invasion of Ukraine was provocative speculation by the West and pure "hysteria".
True? Wrong?
Putin says the Ukrainian government are *.
Is that right? Wrong?
Putin says the attack on Ukraine is pure self-defense.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says the Donbass is a sovereign region in which genocide must be prevented.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says the Ukrainian government is a puppet regime.
Right? Wrong?
Putin says that Russians, Belarusians and Ukraine are one people.
True? Wrong?

Putin says Biden is the best US president for the Russians.
Right? Wrong?
Once more: You are so blind that it hurts!

You need to go back to first grade in school and learn to read. I was responding to the phrase "Russian trolls from Olgino (Olgin's trolls) started to promote Trump in 2015:".
For the illiterate, I’ll explain that Trump’s advertising by trolls is no different from Biden’s advertising by putin.

No, you have already written many times that Putin would prefer Biden as US president. You have written that you believe Putin. And you have deduced from this argument that Biden belongs in the electric chair.

Why don't you read for yourself what nonsense you are writing?

Once again: you are so blind that you really believe Putin on this point. So you are a Russian troll!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 03:51
You have written that you believe Putin. And you have deduced from this argument that Biden belongs in the electric chair.
Everything you wrote is lies, nonsense and trolling.

I recommend re-reading what I wrote 5 times. And then turn to adults and literate people so that they explain to you what exactly I am saying.
If you continue trolling, I will not comment on your nonsense.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 22, 2024, 03:57
I simply don't believe that a person could be so stupid to believe that Trump and his MAGA scumbags are pro-Ukrainian. Therefore, I assume ill will and consider stoker2014 a russian troll. His main activity here is attacking Ukraine's allies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 04:45
I simply don't believe that a person could be so stupid to believe that Trump and his MAGA scumbags are pro-Ukrainian. Therefore, I assume ill will and consider stoker2014 a russian troll. His main activity here is attacking Ukraine's allies.
Be careful in drawing conclusions. Not everything that US Democrats and their trolls say is true.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 04:47
Pro-Palestinian demonstrators shut down airport highways and bridges in major cities

(https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2024/04/16/ap24106647381672-58bcaec02883e8c06f856fbef0f90c4ef7cd8d8b-s800-c85.webp)

Protesters calling for a cease fire in Gaza shut down southbound traffic on Highway 880 in Oakland, Calif. on Monday, April 15, 2024.
Brontë Wittpenn/AP
CHICAGO — Pro-Palestinian demonstrators blocked roadways in Illinois, California, New York and the Pacific Northwest on Monday, temporarily shutting down travel into some of the nation's most heavily used airports, onto the Golden Gate and Brooklyn bridges and on a busy West Coast highway.

In Chicago, protesters linked arms and blocked lanes of Interstate 190 leading into O'Hare International Airport around 7 a.m. in a demonstration they said was part of a global "economic blockade to free Palestine," according to Rifqa Falaneh, one of the organizers.

Traffic in the San Francisco Bay Area was snarled for hours as demonstrators shut down all vehicle, pedestrian and bike traffic on the Golden Gate Bridge and chained themselves to 55-gallon drums filled with cement across Interstate 880 in Oakland. Protesters marching into Brooklyn blocked Manhattan-bound traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge. In Eugene, Oregon, protesters blocked Interstate 5, shutting down traffic on the major highway for about 45 minutes.

Protesters say they chose O'Hare in part because it is one of the largest airports. Among other things, they've called for an immediate cease-fire in the war between Israel and Hamas.

Anti- war protesters have demonstrated in Chicago near daily since Hamas' Oct. 7 attack on southern Israel that killed around 1,200 people. Israeli warplanes and ground troops have since conducted a scorched-earth campaign on the Gaza Strip.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/16/1244990246/pro-palestinian-demonstrators-shut-down-airport-highways-and-bridges (https://www.npr.org/2024/04/16/1244990246/pro-palestinian-demonstrators-shut-down-airport-highways-and-bridges)
________
This is the result of the Democrats' policy, the open door policy in the United States for all illegal immigrants. For Democrats, illegal immigrants are votes in elections, but for the United States they are a threat, and this is a threat to democracy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 04:55
US aid to Ukraine offers respite but not frontline breakthrough – Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-21/us-aid-gives-kyiv-respite-but-battlefield-shift-remains-far-off (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-21/us-aid-gives-kyiv-respite-but-battlefield-shift-remains-far-off)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 22, 2024, 05:04
I see you got up for work during morning hours in Olgino or elsewhere in Mordor, while it is still night in the US.
What time is it in Ukraine? Are Ukrainians Russian trolls?

Ольгинский тролль, ты не украинец
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 05:08
How's Biden doing, within his own party?
Biden has already lost his mind. He has long belonged in a nursing home. It would be idiotic to elect a crazy old man as President of the United States.

@JoeyMannarinoUS
“How did we get to the point where Putin decided he was just going to invade Russia?” - Joe Biden

There is no way this man is fit to lead the United States.

https://twitter.com/JoeyMannarinoUS/status/1781047756506771835
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 05:09
LDV81, you forced me to add you to my personal ignore list. I usually add Russian trolls there.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 22, 2024, 05:13
… if Casanova wins, Bram will be slapped by the reality and he will cry for a sleepy guy…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 05:25
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 22, 2024, 06:08
US aid will boost Ukraine, but doubts remain over 2025 supplies (http://US aid will boost Ukraine, but doubts remain over 2025 supplies)
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-aid-will-boost-ukraine-doubts-remain-over-2025-supplies-2024-04-22/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us-aid-will-boost-ukraine-doubts-remain-over-2025-supplies-2024-04-22/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 22, 2024, 06:20
U.S. aid gives Kyiv respite but battlefield shift remains far off
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/04/22/world/politics/ukraine-war-us-military-aid/ (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/04/22/world/politics/ukraine-war-us-military-aid/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 06:59
U.S. aid gives Kyiv respite but battlefield shift remains far off
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/04/22/world/politics/ukraine-war-us-military-aid/ (https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/04/22/world/politics/ukraine-war-us-military-aid/)
These are my words. My texts are read by famous US publications and published.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 22, 2024, 07:53
… yes Bram, you have always been our guide through the unknown…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 09:55
Joey Mannarino

@JoeyMannarinoUS
This trip to Warsaw, Poland is proving to me that Europe still can be very safe and sound.

They just have to get rid of the migrants who are making the issues.

Check out this short walk around the city.

Western Europe could have this too if they just had the right leaders.

https://twitter.com/JoeyMannarinoUS/status/1782342957011439876
_________

I can only say that all Russians should be deported from the EU, USA, and UK. Almost all Russian orcs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 09:55
Joey Mannarino

@JoeyMannarinoUS
China physically trains their children.

They’ll be ready for war by 16-18.

Out American kids are trained with Twinkies, transgenders suc.king one another off during “story hour” and iPads.

They will be in therapy or slitting their wrists by 16-18.

https://twitter.com/JoeyMannarinoUS/status/1782385829333082624
_______

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 22, 2024, 09:56
You have written that you believe Putin. And you have deduced from this argument that Biden belongs in the electric chair.

Everything you wrote is lies, nonsense and trolling.


Okay, let's have a look what you wrote:

• Today putin began to support Biden. For me this is logical, Biden did a lot to support the Russian Na.zis.

• Zero Talent, you democrat fans have big problems now. Your main argument against Trump was based on the assumption that putin and the Russians support him. Now you no longer have this argument.    
putin has publicly stated that he supports Biden.    

• There is such a newspaper as the New York Times. This newspaper often publishes Russian propaganda and disinformation. This newspaper is now supporting Biden. This means that putin really only wants to support Biden.

• What putin did and how he controls US Democrats:
Putin publicly said that he supports Biden in the US presidential election.
The US Democratic Party should be banned. Biden's place is in prison.

• Putin claims it will be better for Russia if Biden wins US election.
Putin was asked: "Who is better for us [Russians] – Biden or Trump?"
Quote from putin: "Biden. He is a more experienced person, he is predictable, and he is a politician of the old formation."

https://t.me/news_kremlin/3152

But trolls from the US Democratic Party will continue to claim that putin does not support Biden. What putin said is support!

• Putin publicly supported Biden. You deny the facts. This is how Democratic propaganda works.

• Now this is what we have. We have already seen two public speeches by putin, when he twice supports Biden and even says that he supports him in the US elections. This is a signal for all Russians in the USA and for all Russian trolls to support Biden.

• Therefore, when I refer to facts, and this is putin’s support for Biden, I do this specifically for the sect called “US Democrats.” You Zero Talent are not an independent voter, you are a Democrat troll. These are also facts.

• Zero Talent is a Democratic troll who follows Putin's orders to support Biden. Putin has already addressed the trolls twice and said that Biden is the best president for russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 10:34
Wilm, no need to take my phrases out of context. Most of the phrases were said in the context of my discussion with a troll from the Democratic Party. In this discussion, I was forced to use his argument as a counterpoint to the lies and propaganda that he wrote. Therefore, each phrase must be reread in the context of what the troll said before.

Here's your post today: "You have written that you believe Putin. And you have deduced from this argument that Biden belongs in the electric chair."

In the context of this post, I am writing to you that I do not believe putin and I do not believe any Russian orc. Biden should be put in the electric chair not because putin supported him or did not support him, but because Biden is pursuing a criminal policy that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of people being killed.

I believe that I answered your question today, in the context of your question.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 22, 2024, 11:55
(https://meduza.io/impro/Xaeloc7B4xyELxTX3kr45TUwRsjdOeMESHy34kVoG2E/resizing_type:fit/width:980/height:0/enlarge:1/quality:80/aHR0cHM6Ly9tZWR1/emEuaW8vaW1hZ2Uv/YXR0YWNobWVudHMv/aW1hZ2VzLzAwNi8x/NTIvNzM4L29yaWdp/bmFsL1pGdmt0SGtR/Q09ORUdVQUtQRjUy/M0EuanBn.webp)

Biden smiles sincerely (against the background of a KGB agent), even though his interlocutor is not smiling. This photo is proof of the fact that Biden liked Russians early in his career.


If you write that it's evidence because someone at the highest level of politics likes someone just because they smile, then you could at least say that for Biden this only applied to the distant past.

You could figuratively counter with the present...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 22, 2024, 12:11
I'll quote zero talent: "There are no former KGB agents."  ;D ;D ;D

(https://glavcom.ua/img/article/7628/85_main-v1623761458.jpg)

(https://gdb.voanews.com/CA90ED41-922E-46F3-9578-847970C4BB3E_w1023_r1_s.jpg)

At best, the photo I posted with Biden in the 80s suggests that Biden liked the USSR, liked the Russians, liked the fascists. Biden was a politician for relations with the USSR. I am against such politicians in power in the USA.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 22, 2024, 12:42

In the context of this post, I am writing to you that I do not believe putin and I do not believe any Russian orc.



„Therefore, when I refer to facts, and this is putin’s support for Biden.“
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 22, 2024, 12:46
I'll quote zero talent: "There are no former KGB agents."  ;D ;D ;D

(https://glavcom.ua/img/article/7628/85_main-v1623761458.jpg)

(https://gdb.voanews.com/CA90ED41-922E-46F3-9578-847970C4BB3E_w1023_r1_s.jpg)

At best, the photo I posted with Biden in the 80s suggests that Biden liked the USSR, liked the Russians, liked the fascists. Biden was a politician for relations with the USSR. I am against such politicians in power in the USA.

Once again you are presenting your assertions as facts.
Then I could also claim that Trump is a KGB agent based on the photos I showed you.
I personally don't like your suggestive nature. You always claim to only present facts. Instead, you fuel everyone with pure conjecture that is completely unproven and unprovable.
I stand by it: you are a Russian troll!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 23, 2024, 15:25
Bradley IFVs were spotted being loaded onto trucks in Rzeszów, Poland (~100 km) from the Ukraine-Poland border.

https://twitter.com/OSINTNic/status/1782653650935877961

 8)

ps.
better later than never
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 23, 2024, 16:04
So what will this coward and friend of the Russians, Biden, do now on the issue of long-range missiles for Ukraine?
Thanks to the Republicans, Congress voted to allow these missiles to be delivered to Ukraine.
I think that this coward will chicken out and work for the Russians in these matters.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: LDV81 on April 23, 2024, 22:19
Who voted against the aid for Ukraine in the House? 112 republican scumbags:

https://www.businessinsider.com/which-house-republicans-voted-against-ukraine-russia-aid-2024-4 (https://www.businessinsider.com/which-house-republicans-voted-against-ukraine-russia-aid-2024-4)

A majority of the GOP conference voted against.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 24, 2024, 00:01
So what will this coward and friend of the Russians, Biden, do now on the issue of long-range missiles for Ukraine?
Thanks to the Republicans, Congress voted to allow these missiles to be delivered to Ukraine.
I think that this coward will chicken out and work for the Russians in these matters.
… mistrust of use…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 02:49
So what will this coward and friend of the Russians, Biden, do now on the issue of long-range missiles for Ukraine?
Thanks to the Republicans, Congress voted to allow these missiles to be delivered to Ukraine.
I think that this coward will chicken out and work for the Russians in these matters.
… mistrust of use…?!
No. Support for russia and putin. Providing Ukraine with long-range missiles in the required quantity means victory for Ukraine. The same applies to the provision of F16 in the required quantity. US Democrats and Biden are friends of russia and are against russia losing the war. US Democrats support the Russian empire and do not want its liquidation. Therefore, the entire policy of the Democrats is aimed at supporting Russians and genocide of Ukrainians.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 24, 2024, 03:50
… so you only need everything and thats all…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 04:57
… so you only need everything and thats all…?!
To defeat russia and de-occupate the territories of Ukraine, long-range missiles and F16 aircraft are needed. And this is needed not in a single quantity, but in the required quantity. Ten missiles or ten aircrafts will not change the situation much. Also, missiles and aircraft will change the nature of the war and Ukraine will not need mobilization, trench warfare and Ukrainian losses will be 10 times less.
Without missiles and aircraft, the war proceeds according to the methods of the First World War, with the Russians having an advantage. The Russians have more people, more shells and more tanks. I'm not even talking about the aviation that the Russians have.
Of course, Ukraine needs both tanks and shells, but missiles and aircraft are the first things that are needed and the consumption of shells will decrease by 10 times.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 05:01
"In briefings to Congress in recent weeks, administration officials have indicated that the US will likely send Ukraine long-range ATACMS, or Army Tactical Missile Systems, for the first time as part of the new aid package, three of the sources said.

Last fall the US first sent Ukraine the midrange variant of the ATACMS missile system, which can reach about 100 miles, while the longer-range version can reach as far as 190 miles."

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/23/politics/us-ukraine-military-aid-package/index.html
___

Let's see, let's look at these Democrats and the coward Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 08:34
Marjorie Taylor Greene says if she ran Jan. 6 Capitol attack, 'We would have won'

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-jan-6-capitol-attack-wouldve/story?id=95065444

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 24, 2024, 09:45
Marjorie Taylor Greene says if she ran Jan. 6 Capitol attack, 'We would have won'

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-jan-6-capitol-attack-wouldve/story?id=95065444

 ;D ;D ;D

putin's useful idiots endorsing putin's useful idiots....
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 24, 2024, 10:39
Marjorie Taylor Greene says if she ran Jan. 6 Capitol attack, 'We would have won'

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-jan-6-capitol-attack-wouldve/story?id=95065444

 ;D ;D ;D

The fact that you think this statement is good shows that you, like MTG, are an enemy of democracy. I find that extremely repulsive and disgusting!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 10:47
Marjorie Taylor Greene says if she ran Jan. 6 Capitol attack, 'We would have won'

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-jan-6-capitol-attack-wouldve/story?id=95065444

 ;D ;D ;D

The fact that you think this statement is good shows that you, like MTG, are an enemy of democracy. I find that extremely repulsive and disgusting!
You completely lack logical thinking. You have already written that you consider me a Russian troll. But it is common knowledge that all Russian trolls (and simply Russians) are enemies of democracy. Therefore, you repeat yourself in your statements, which means you cannot add 2 plus 2.
2+2=4, are you familiar with this computational example?

 ;D ;D ;D

In communicating with you, I will try to correspond to your conclusions.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 13:28
The US Embassy showed Biden in the form of a Ukrainian Cossack writing a letter to the “Sultan”.

The United States Embassy illustrated the agreement on the act of additional support for Ukraine with a version of a painting by Ukrainian artist Ilya Repin, in which Joe Biden is shown as a clerk among the Cossacks writing to the Sultan in response to his ultimatum.

On this occasion, the US Embassy published a remake of the famous painting “Cossacks write a letter to the Turkish Sultan”, in which the American President is present among the Ukrainian Cossacks - it is he who endorses with his signature the response of the “Sultan” Vladimir Putin to Russian ultimatums and encroachments on Ukrainian territories.

Reference: The plot of the painting “Cossacks writing a letter to the Turkish Sultan” was the famous Letter of the Cossacks to the Turkish Sultan, written in 1676 as a response of the Zaporizhzhia Cossacks to the demand of the Ottoman Sultan Megmed IV to surrender.

(https://img.tsn.ua/cached/224/tsn-45ddb1c1da8bc78232f746637fde253d/thumbs/1036x648/d1/e6/69f598ac16222fff506ea6070fa0e6d1.jpeg)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 24, 2024, 13:41
Rehashing old news from May ’22, when Biden was already considered by smart Ukrainians “that” guy in the middle.
https://twitter.com/EugenPinak/status/1524455866790993923


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 14:34
Rehashing old news from May ’22, when Biden was already considered by smart Ukrainians “that” guy in the middle.
https://twitter.com/EugenPinak/status/1524455866790993923
"Ukrainian war humor. Biden signing Lend-Lease Law with Zaporizhian Cossacks from the famous painting by Ilya Repin 'Cossacks write a letter to the Turkish sultan'."

And that coward Biden (and friend of the Russians) supplied zero weapons to Ukraine under the Lend-Lease Law.
I don’t think that smart Ukrainians were happy about this event, just as many now know that Biden is working for the Russians.
Personally, I have exactly zero confidence in Biden and the Democrats.

Ukraine, of course, is not against the supply of any weapons, but if we talk about trust, then many smart Ukrainians do not have trust in US democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on April 24, 2024, 15:28
The USA have delivered long range Atacms missiles earlier this month to the Ukraine on direct order of President Biden. For security reasons this has been kept secret until now.

Also Biden announced a large package of military aid with anti aircraft defence, artillery and missiles after the congress has cleared the funding for that. The preparations for that will begin "within the next hours".

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukraine-krieg-usa-liefern-atacms-raketen-und-neues-militaerpaket-a-3abb87bd-6459-4934-9ed1-415d8e3e89fa (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukraine-krieg-usa-liefern-atacms-raketen-und-neues-militaerpaket-a-3abb87bd-6459-4934-9ed1-415d8e3e89fa)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 15:36
The USA have delivered long range Atacms missiles earlier this month to the Ukraine on direct order of President Biden. For security reasons this has been kept secret until now.

Also Biden announced a large package of military aid with anti aircraft defence, artillery and missiles after the congress has cleared the funding for that. The preparations for that will begin "within the next hours".

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukraine-krieg-usa-liefern-atacms-raketen-und-neues-militaerpaket-a-3abb87bd-6459-4934-9ed1-415d8e3e89fa (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/ukraine-krieg-usa-liefern-atacms-raketen-und-neues-militaerpaket-a-3abb87bd-6459-4934-9ed1-415d8e3e89fa)
All this is at the level of rumors and gossip. Even if long-range missiles were supplied, then in what quantity? One piece, two pieces, three?
If such missiles had been supplied, Crimean Bridge would have already been destroyed. Let me remind you that half of this bridge is located within the territorial borders of Ukraine in accordance with all norms of international law. This bridge is standing and working, which means no missiles were delivered. Also, I have not heard of Ukraine launching strikes at ranges that it cannot reach with medium-range missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Bridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Bridge)

Confirmation that US Democrats will supply these missiles to Ukraine will be the destruction of this bridge. If there is no destruction, then there is no supply. Everything is very simple, like 2+2=4.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 24, 2024, 15:40
.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 15:49
Instead of a branch, draw Biden's neck.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on April 24, 2024, 15:55
If such missiles had been supplied, Crimean Bridge would have already been destroyed.

According to the article, the missiles have been delivered earlier this month. So they may not yet have been deployed to the front.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 24, 2024, 16:10
Instead of a branch, draw Biden's neck.  ;D ;D ;D

Same difference. You will still fall and break yours.

Satire is too complicated for you...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 24, 2024, 16:22
Zero, or anyone else from the USA.
Can someone please explain and categorize how and why these anti-Israel protests at American universities come about?

And please no opinion from the misprogrammed pro-Russian chatbot.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 16:40
If such missiles had been supplied, Crimean Bridge would have already been destroyed.

According to the article, the missiles have been delivered earlier this month. So they may not yet have been deployed to the front.
:o :o :o
Have you looked at the calendar for a long time?
The necessary weapons reach the front in a maximum of 3 days. But I won’t argue, all of Ukraine has been hoping and waiting for 2 years.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 16:42
Instead of a branch, draw Biden's neck.  ;D ;D ;D

Same difference. You will still fall and break yours.

Satire is too complicated for you...
I don't agree. The next US president will supply to Ukraine whatever he is told in Ukraine.  ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 16:44
Zero, or anyone else from the USA.
Can someone please explain and categorize how and why these anti-Israel protests at American universities come about?
This is all the result of the policy of US Democrats (friends of world terrorism). The majority of the Democratic electorate is against Israel and supports Hamas. University professors are also mostly democrats and do not teach correctly.

I hope that RalfLiebhold does not read my answer, because he put me on his personal ignore list. I am answering the question not for him, but for all other readers. RalfLiebhold, don't read my answer, it's not for you!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 24, 2024, 17:06
If such missiles had been supplied, Crimean Bridge would have already been destroyed.

According to the article, the missiles have been delivered earlier this month. So they may not yet have been deployed to the front.

The delivery was made in return for the promise to use the weapons exclusively within Ukraine.
However, I don't know whether there were any arrangements regarding disputed regions such as Donbass, Luhansk or Crimea.
I have read that they have already been used.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 24, 2024, 17:07
Zero, or anyone else from the USA.
Can someone please explain and categorize how and why these anti-Israel protests at American universities come about?
This is all the result of the policy of US Democrats (friends of world terrorism). The majority of the Democratic electorate is against Israel and supports Hamas. University teachers are also mostly democrats and do not teach correctly.

I hope that RalfLiebhold does not read my answer, because he put me on his personal ignore list. I am answering the question not for him, but for all other readers. RalfLiebhold, don't read my answer, it's not for you!  ;D ;D ;D

You were not asked.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 24, 2024, 17:25
Zero, or anyone else from the USA.
Can someone please explain and categorize how and why these anti-Israel protests at American universities come about?

And please no opinion from the misprogrammed pro-Russian chatbot.

I've been following it.

It appears to be misguided Gen Z college students fueled by social media, and without real historical understanding of the Middle East situation, which has taken on a life of its own.

It doesn't appear to be either right-wing or left-wing biased - because they are angry at Biden too for not doing enough to stop Israel - but rather a generational thing. Anti-war protests, so to speak. But very misguided, and definitely fueled by all the lies on social media.

It will be a good thing when China's ownership of TikTok is banned in the USA. As its now part of this latest foreign aid bill going through. All these internet influences from Russia, China and Iran are often a direct attack to destabilize democratic countries. In this case, they start with the most vulnerable - the younger generations (both GenZs and Millennials).
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 17:42
Zero, or anyone else from the USA.
Can someone please explain and categorize how and why these anti-Israel protests at American universities come about?

And please no opinion from the misprogrammed pro-Russian chatbot.

I've been following it.

It appears to be misguided Gen Z college students fueled by social media, and without real historical understanding of the Middle East situation, which has taken on a life of its own.

It doesn't appear to be either right-wing or left-wing biased - because they are angry at Biden too for not doing enough to stop Israel - but rather a generational thing. Anti-war protests, so to speak. But very misguided, and definitely fueled by all the lies on social media.

It will be a good thing when China's ownership of TikTok is banned in the USA. As its now part of this latest foreign aid bill going through. All these internet influences from Russia, China and Iran are often a direct attack to destabilize democratic countries. In this case, they start with the most vulnerable - the younger generations.
Let me clarify that many University professors at prestigious US universities support Hamas. I'm sure they are Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 24, 2024, 17:45
However, I don't know whether there were any arrangements regarding disputed regions such as Donbass, Luhansk or Crimea.
This is all the legal territory of Ukraine, which is occupied by Russian orcs. If US Democrats do not allow Ukraine to shoot even on its territory, then these missiles are not needed at all. There will be nothing to shoot at with them. Long-range missiles also require long-range targets.
But any kind of meanness can be expected from these cowardly democrats. For example, the requirement not to shoot at oil refineries. But Ukraine still continues to shoot and tell the democrats to go to hell.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 24, 2024, 17:53
@Ralf

Here is Reuters summary from yesterday:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-behind-pro-palestinian-protests-us-universities-2024-04-23/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-behind-pro-palestinian-protests-us-universities-2024-04-23/)

"April 23 (Reuters) - Student protests in the U.S. over the war in Gaza have intensified and expanded over the past week, with a number of encampments now in place at colleges including Columbia, Yale, and New York University. Police have been called in to several campuses to arrest demonstrators.
Here are some details on the protests:
WHAT ARE THE PROTESTERS DEMANDING?
Across campuses where protests have broken out, students have issued calls for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza, an end to U.S. military assistance for Israel, university divestment from arms suppliers and other companies profiting from the war, and an amnesty for students and faculty members who have been disciplined or fired for protesting."


...

I just want to add re. social media influence ...

I don't know if you've been watching the Trump Hush Money trial, but its interesting that all prospective jurors were asked where they got their news from. The older people largely named conventional news sources - BUT the younger ones said TikTok and social media!

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 24, 2024, 22:25
Biden admin isn’t fully convinced Ukraine can win, even with new aid
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-war-aid-00154143 (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-war-aid-00154143)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 02:41
social media influence ...
Reasons for protests against Israel in the USA:
1. Democrats are in power and many University professors at prestigious universities are Democrats. University professors tell students lies.
2. Open door policy, Democrats have not stopped the flow of illegal migrants into the United States. The more illegal immigrants there are, the more enemies of democracy infiltrate the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 02:50
Biden admin isn’t fully convinced Ukraine can win, even with new aid
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-war-aid-00154143 (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/24/biden-ukraine-russia-war-aid-00154143)
+100

This is all the result of the cowardly policies of the US Democrats (friends of the Russians).
Without 150-200 F16 and 800-1500 long-range missiles, there is no point in talking about a counter-offensive. The cowardly Democrats gave the Russians the opportunity to build serious lines of defense.
Ukraine also needs tanks and shells.
All this is not available for help from the United States and long-range missiles are in question, as well as where they can be fired.
Biden is doing everything to ensure that the Russians continue the genocide of the Ukrainian people.
Biden's place in the electric chair.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 04:39
@SenMarcoRubio
🚨WATCH: The pro-Hamas demonstrators have shown their true colors.

They hate America and want to see us fail.

They want Israel erased off the map.

They don't believe in liberty and justice for all.

https://twitter.com/SenMarcoRubio/status/1782532331221225506
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 04:45
HIGHER EDUCATION
How antiwar student protests are spreading across U.S. universities


https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2024/04/23/map-student-protests-arrests-universities-us/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2024/04/23/map-student-protests-arrests-universities-us/)
_______

This is the result of the policies of Biden and the US Democrats. History repeats itself. This happened before during the Vietnam War; as a result of such protests, the United States lost the war. Now everything is heading towards the fact that the United States will lose the war in the Middle East.
Only Republicans and Trump can save democracy.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 07:05
US accuses China of backing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

Beijing is “picking a side” and can’t claim to be neutral any more, the US ambassador to NATO tells POLITICO.

https://www.politico.eu/article/us-accuses-china-backing-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/us-accuses-china-backing-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/)
_____

Biden, Democrats - where are the sanctions against China?
Idiots.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 25, 2024, 10:37
… it’s late now, because the war is in its latest phase… don’t pray for MAGA, because they will be even for faster ending of all of these madness… everyone desperately need peace…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 11:59
… it’s late now, because the war is in its latest phase… don’t pray for MAGA, because they will be even for faster ending of all of these madness… everyone desperately need peace…
You're delusional. Until the Russians occupy half or all of the EU, the war will continue. Also about China, North Korea and Iran. It is only Russian propaganda that offers to surrender Ukraine in exchange for “peace.”
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 12:07
A totalitarian and Nazi world can be achieved very quickly. I’ll even write it like this:
1. Ukraine signs complete surrender, renounces statehood and allows Russian orc troops to reach the EU borders.
2. Ukrainians are mobilized into the army of orcs.
3. Cowardly Americans run away from the EU in 2-3 weeks.
4. The army of Russian orcs will completely occupy the entire EU in 1-2 months.
5. At the same time, China occupies Taiwan, Iran occupies Israel, and North Korea occupies South Korea.
6. Other actions are possible regarding the occupation of Australia by China, etc. (I don’t know all the plans of the terrorists).

So, is such a world suitable? Suitable for everyone?
____

The entire democratic world holds together only thanks to the courage of Ukrainians. The cowardly Europarasites will surrender to the Russian orcs in a few days. And this is confirmed by surveys that were conducted in EU countries.

The Russians won't even need to use nuclear weapons. Conventional weapons will be sufficient. Cowardly democracies will never be the first to use nuclear weapons. As a result, all EU nuclear weapons will come under Russian control.

ps.
I propose to Hollywood to make a film or series based on this very real scenario.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on April 25, 2024, 12:18
3. Cowardly Americans run away from the EU in 2-3 weeks.

Don't hold your breath.

4. The army of Russian orcs will completely occupy the entire EU in 1-2 months.

The Russians currently need months to conquer a few small towns or villages, but they will overrun the EU in a few weeks. Sure.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on April 25, 2024, 12:25
@Ralf

Here is Reuters summary from yesterday:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-behind-pro-palestinian-protests-us-universities-2024-04-23/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-behind-pro-palestinian-protests-us-universities-2024-04-23/)

"April 23 (Reuters) - Student protests in the U.S. over the war in Gaza have intensified and expanded over the past week, with a number of encampments now in place at colleges including Columbia, Yale, and New York University. Police have been called in to several campuses to arrest demonstrators.
Here are some details on the protests:
WHAT ARE THE PROTESTERS DEMANDING?
Across campuses where protests have broken out, students have issued calls for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza, an end to U.S. military assistance for Israel, university divestment from arms suppliers and other companies profiting from the war, and an amnesty for students and faculty members who have been disciplined or fired for protesting."


...

I just want to add re. social media influence ...

I don't know if you've been watching the Trump Hush Money trial, but its interesting that all prospective jurors were asked where they got their news from. The older people largely named conventional news sources - BUT the younger ones said TikTok and social media!

Thanks for the classification.

In principle, there's nothing wrong with TikTok and other social media - I use them too. But obviously this generation no longer seems to be able to question or research things critically.  And in this case, we are talking about university students.

Even if I see it differently, it is understandable when people demonstrate for the liberation of Palestine or for a ceasefire.

However, if you look at the videos and pictures that are circulating, posters and chants glorify 7.10 and even call for it to be repeated. Jews are mobbed or insulted and the globalization of the intifada is called for.
That's a whole different ball game. That is very worrying. This was also not quite correctly classified in the Reuters article.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 12:49
4. The army of Russian orcs will completely occupy the entire EU in 1-2 months.
The Russians currently need months to conquer a few small towns or villages, but they will overrun the EU in a few weeks. Sure.
1. Don’t compare yourself with brave and warlike Ukrainians. You won't last a day in a trench.
2. The Russian army will be replenished with Ukrainians in the event of the occupation of Ukraine. And you will have to deal not only with Russian zombies and orcs, but also with brave Ukrainians. You can’t imagine what it means when Russian zombies come at you, they are not afraid to die in droves. This is a zombie.
3. The fact that Ukraine is trying to hold its defense is more a miracle and luck than an axiom. With a chronic shortage of necessary weapons, the Ukrainian front can very quickly collapse hundreds of kilometers away.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on April 25, 2024, 13:18
4. The army of Russian orcs will completely occupy the entire EU in 1-2 months.
The Russians currently need months to conquer a few small towns or villages, but they will overrun the EU in a few weeks. Sure.
1. Don’t compare yourself with brave and warlike Ukrainians. You won't last a day in a trench.

Yes, but we have Taurus missiles, Leopard tanks and aviation; all factors you claim are critical for success in a war.

2. The Russian army will be replenished with Ukrainians in the event of the occupation of Ukraine. And you will have to deal not only with Russian zombies and orcs, but also with brave Ukrainians. You can’t imagine what it means when Russian zombies come at you, they are not afraid to die in droves. This is a zombie.

If the Ukrainians are such super soldiers, surely they do not need our weapons. I am sure the Russian army will surrender any day now.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 25, 2024, 13:35
A totalitarian and Nazi world can be achieved very quickly. I’ll even write it like this:
1. Ukraine signs complete surrender, renounces statehood and allows Russian orc troops to reach the EU borders.
2. Ukrainians are mobilized into the army of orcs.
3. Cowardly Americans run away from the EU in 2-3 weeks.
4. The army of Russian orcs will completely occupy the entire EU in 1-2 months.
5. At the same time, China occupies Taiwan, Iran occupies Israel, and North Korea occupies South Korea.
6. Other actions are possible regarding the occupation of Australia by China, etc. (I don’t know all the plans of the terrorists).

So, is such a world suitable? Suitable for everyone?
____

The entire democratic world holds together only thanks to the courage of Ukrainians. The cowardly Europarasites will surrender to the Russian orcs in a few days. And this is confirmed by surveys that were conducted in EU countries.

The Russians won't even need to use nuclear weapons. Conventional weapons will be sufficient. Cowardly democracies will never be the first to use nuclear weapons. As a result, all EU nuclear weapons will come under Russian control.

ps.
I propose to Hollywood to make a film or series based on this very real scenario.

Oh, once again great "facts" from our all-knowing superstar.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 13:55
Yes, but we have Taurus missiles, Leopard tanks and aviation
This will not help the cowardly Europarasites. All these weapons will come under Russian control even without a fight.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on April 25, 2024, 14:07
Yes, but we have Taurus missiles, Leopard tanks and aviation
This will not help the cowardly Europarasites. All these weapons will come under Russian control even without a fight.
 ;D ;D ;D

You may wish that, but it will not happen that way.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 25, 2024, 15:21
Yes, but we have Taurus missiles, Leopard tanks and aviation
This will not help the cowardly Europarasites. All these weapons will come under Russian control even without a fight.
 ;D ;D ;D
You may wish that, but it will not happen that way.
I don't want this. I only voice scripts.
Nobody ever thought that the Russians would start World War III, but they did.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 25, 2024, 23:31
… peace is always better alternative then something what can escalate to WW3…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 25, 2024, 23:33
‘Blatantly illegal’: Zelenskyy admin under fire for denying services to Ukrainian men abroad
https://www.politico.eu/article/blatantly-illegal-zelenskyy-government-under-fire-for-refusing-issue-consulate-services-ukrainian-men-abroad/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/blatantly-illegal-zelenskyy-government-under-fire-for-refusing-issue-consulate-services-ukrainian-men-abroad/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 26, 2024, 00:19
As Russian Troops Broke Through Ukrainian Lines, Panicky Ukrainian Commanders Had No Choice But To Deploy One Of Their Least-Prepared Brigades
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/24/as-russian-troops-broke-through-ukrainian-lines-panicky-ukrainian-commanders-had-no-choice-but-to-deploy-one-of-their-least-prepared-brigades/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/24/as-russian-troops-broke-through-ukrainian-lines-panicky-ukrainian-commanders-had-no-choice-but-to-deploy-one-of-their-least-prepared-brigades/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2024, 02:12
As Russian Troops Broke Through Ukrainian Lines, Panicky Ukrainian Commanders Had No Choice But To Deploy One Of Their Least-Prepared Brigades
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/24/as-russian-troops-broke-through-ukrainian-lines-panicky-ukrainian-commanders-had-no-choice-but-to-deploy-one-of-their-least-prepared-brigades/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/24/as-russian-troops-broke-through-ukrainian-lines-panicky-ukrainian-commanders-had-no-choice-but-to-deploy-one-of-their-least-prepared-brigades/)
It's not clear what this article is about. Some kind of rumors, speculation, gossip. How can this Forbes know what is happening on every meter of the front. I am monitoring the situation at the front from various sources, I have not heard anything like this. There are Ukrainian volunteers and journalists on the front line; if something wrong happens, they talk about it. I haven’t heard anything about what Forbes writes. Probably Forbes is earning money from the Russians and publishing a custom article.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2024, 03:12
‘Blatantly illegal’: Zelenskyy admin under fire for denying services to Ukrainian men abroad
https://www.politico.eu/article/blatantly-illegal-zelenskyy-government-under-fire-for-refusing-issue-consulate-services-ukrainian-men-abroad/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/blatantly-illegal-zelenskyy-government-under-fire-for-refusing-issue-consulate-services-ukrainian-men-abroad/)
Ukrainian military medic Alina Mykhailova said in a post on Facebook: "No one sent us there either, but for some reason, we are there. If you don’t like it, give up your citizenship and go to hell.”"

+100
_________
The cowardly policies of the US Democrats, Biden and the Europarasites lead to the fact that Ukraine plans to carry out a total mobilization of everyone who can hold a weapon in their hands.

There is no place for democracy in war.


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2024, 08:32
… peace is always better alternative then something what can escalate to WW3…

You wrote Russian propaganda, which is spread by Russian trolls. This is what putin wants.
There can be no peace during war.
Now the Russians want to stop the fighting for several months to produce weapons, mobilize, bring weapons and continue the offensive. Therefore, all trolls, useful idiots and KGB agents on all international platforms demand peace and Ukraine’s abandonment of the territories occupied by Russian orcs. They demand from Ukraine to throw people into occupation and not liberate the territories.
Naturally, Ukraine will not agree to this, and all the military will not agree either. The Russians must not be given the opportunity to prepare an offensive.

Good Russian = liquidated Russian.

The Third World War has been going on for 10 years. If Ukraine signs capitulations, the EU will be occupied very soon. And every time, every occupation will be presented under the guise of peace at the suggestion of the Russian orcs.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2024, 08:38
Trump says Biden policies undermining respect for US currency.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/trump-advisers-discuss-penalties-for-nations-that-de-dollarize?srnd=homepage-europe (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/trump-advisers-discuss-penalties-for-nations-that-de-dollarize?srnd=homepage-europe)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on April 26, 2024, 08:41
As Russian Troops Broke Through Ukrainian Lines, Panicky Ukrainian Commanders Had No Choice But To Deploy One Of Their Least-Prepared Brigades
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/24/as-russian-troops-broke-through-ukrainian-lines-panicky-ukrainian-commanders-had-no-choice-but-to-deploy-one-of-their-least-prepared-brigades/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/24/as-russian-troops-broke-through-ukrainian-lines-panicky-ukrainian-commanders-had-no-choice-but-to-deploy-one-of-their-least-prepared-brigades/)
It's not clear what this article is about.

The article is about a Russian break-in that may develop into a break through, seemingly caused by problems with rotating troops on the Ukrainian side.

Some kind of rumors, speculation, gossip. How can this Forbes know what is happening on every meter of the front.

Forbes is not a person, but a magazine and they have means of confirming information.

And they are not the only ones reporting this.

There is for example also an article on the German news site Spiegel Online. They cite Ukrainian and Russian bloggers as a source.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/russlands-krieg-gegen-die-ukraine-gefaehrliche-lage-im-donbass-koennen-sich-die-ukrainer-stabilisieren-oder-droht-der-durchbruch-a-49d14941-7a32-401c-b11c-693d6c9d1339 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/russlands-krieg-gegen-die-ukraine-gefaehrliche-lage-im-donbass-koennen-sich-die-ukrainer-stabilisieren-oder-droht-der-durchbruch-a-49d14941-7a32-401c-b11c-693d6c9d1339)

I am monitoring the situation at the front from various sources, I have not heard anything like this.

If you have not heard about it, it is probably true.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2024, 09:17
As Russian Troops Broke Through Ukrainian Lines, Panicky Ukrainian Commanders Had No Choice But To Deploy One Of Their Least-Prepared Brigades
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/24/as-russian-troops-broke-through-ukrainian-lines-panicky-ukrainian-commanders-had-no-choice-but-to-deploy-one-of-their-least-prepared-brigades/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/04/24/as-russian-troops-broke-through-ukrainian-lines-panicky-ukrainian-commanders-had-no-choice-but-to-deploy-one-of-their-least-prepared-brigades/)
It's not clear what this article is about.

The article is about a Russian break-in that may develop into a break through, seemingly caused by problems with rotating troops on the Ukrainian side.

Some kind of rumors, speculation, gossip. How can this Forbes know what is happening on every meter of the front.

Forbes is not a person, but a magazine and they have means of confirming information.

And they are not the only ones reporting this.

There is for example also an article on the German news site Spiegel Online. They cite Ukrainian and Russian bloggers as a source.

https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/russlands-krieg-gegen-die-ukraine-gefaehrliche-lage-im-donbass-koennen-sich-die-ukrainer-stabilisieren-oder-droht-der-durchbruch-a-49d14941-7a32-401c-b11c-693d6c9d1339 (https://www.spiegel.de/ausland/russlands-krieg-gegen-die-ukraine-gefaehrliche-lage-im-donbass-koennen-sich-die-ukrainer-stabilisieren-oder-droht-der-durchbruch-a-49d14941-7a32-401c-b11c-693d6c9d1339)

I am monitoring the situation at the front from various sources, I have not heard anything like this.

If you have not heard about it, it is probably true.
I looked at the primary sources, there are no such problems as are written about in forbes. I think Forbes is distributing either Russian propaganda or propaganda from US Democrats to promote the aid that Biden signed. For this PR, Forbes invents a non-existent problem.
Once again, the actions and plans of the Ukrainian General Staff are not known to anyone, any journalists, foreign publications, etc. Everything that the media writes is either fiction or propaganda. The opinions of some former soldiers are only their opinions, they do not see the whole picture of the front.
If I have more information on this, I will update.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 26, 2024, 11:08
Ukraine arrests agri minister over land-grab corruption accusations
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-agriculture-minister-in-custody-over-state-land-grab-charges/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraines-agriculture-minister-in-custody-over-state-land-grab-charges/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 26, 2024, 11:09
Explaining complex things in simple words: Ramstein meeting, non-recognition of Putin's legitimacy, nuclear safety of humanity
26.04.2024 13:30
The Center for Strategic Communication and Information Security pursues efforts to provide a brief explanation to foreign audiences on the current topics of particular interest as regards Ukraine. 

NON-RECOGNITION OF PUTIN'S LEGITIMACY

On April 25, the European Parliament adopted a resolution recognizing Putin as an illegitimate president.

- The resolution calls on the international community not to recognize the results of the Russian pseudo-elections of March 15-17, as they were neither free nor fair.
- Also, the parliamentarians condemned the pseudo-elections in the Ukrainian temporarily occupied territories and called for the introduction of sanctions against their organizers.
- Putin has ceased to be a legitimate head of state. He is a usurper. And this is another reason to limit all ties with the criminal authorities of the Russian Federation.
- The text of the resolution expressed regret over the fact that Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban backed away from the EU's general line and congratulated Putin on his ‘’victory .’’
- The campaign to deny Putin's legitimacy continues. The day before, on April 17, PACE adopted a similar decision.

NUCLEAR SAFETY OF HUMANITY

April 26 is the International Chornobyl Disaster Remembrance Day

- Ukraine is one of the most affected countries in the world among those who have experienced the impact of nuclear weapons. Chernobyl is one of the sad ‘’visiting-card’’ of our country.
- Disregard for human life and safety on the part of the USSR totalitarian state was the cause of the Chernobyl disaster in 1986. Currently, Ukraine is fighting aggression in order not to be dragged back into the totalitarian past.
- Ukraine takes the issue of nuclear safety as seriously and responsibly as possible and has the moral right to demand the same from the world community.
- Moscow has not learned the Chornobyl lessons. In February 2022, the perpetrator returned to the scene of the crime, Russian troops occupied the exclusion zone, exposing humanity to a new surge of radiation pollution.
- Russia uses nuclear danger in the war with Ukraine threatening with nuclear weapons, provoking dangerous situations at the temporarily occupied Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Station.
- We must put an end to Russian aggression and demand the denuclearization of the Russian Federation with joint efforts. Moscow has proven that it cannot be trusted in matters of nuclear safety control.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3857049-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-ramstein-meeting-nonrecognition-of-putins-legitimacy-nuclear-safety-of-humanity.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3857049-explaining-complex-things-in-simple-words-ramstein-meeting-nonrecognition-of-putins-legitimacy-nuclear-safety-of-humanity.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 26, 2024, 13:03
… from multiple sources - end of May will be critical and will lead to the end of this war…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 26, 2024, 23:19
GOP critics vow no more US aid for Ukraine
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4619185-gop-critics-vow-no-more-us-aid-for-ukraine/amp/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2024, 02:38
GOP critics vow no more US aid for Ukraine
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4619185-gop-critics-vow-no-more-us-aid-for-ukraine/amp/

"Trump allies said the former president also played an influential role in convincing lawmakers to add the REPO Act to the package, which authorizes the seizure of Russian assets to pay for the reconstruction of Ukraine."
___________
I’ll add from other sources that do not work for Democratic propaganda:

Moreover, the Republicans included in this bill not only the obligations of the Biden Administration to provide us with long-range ATACMS missiles (which the White House still considered a red line, after which the Kremlin would go to an even greater escalation in the war), but also a requirement for Secretary of State Blinken and the head of The Pentagon should provide Austin with a clear strategy for achieving Ukraine's specific goals in this war, which are tied to American military assistance.

Democrats - fuck you!
Biden - fuck you!

90% of the article is propaganda from cowardly US Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2024, 03:54
US and Arab states urge Israel not to launch Rafah offensive

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/saudi-arabia-to-host-gaza-talks-next-week-with-top-us-uk-and-arab-officials?sref=3Dmd2zEN (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-25/saudi-arabia-to-host-gaza-talks-next-week-with-top-us-uk-and-arab-officials?sref=3Dmd2zEN)
______

US Democrats are friends of all world terrorists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 27, 2024, 11:22
Putin ‘likely’ didn’t order Navalny’s death in February, US agencies believe: WSJ
https://www.politico.eu/article/alexei-navalny-vladimir-putin-death-order-russia/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/alexei-navalny-vladimir-putin-death-order-russia/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2024, 12:05
Putin ‘likely’ didn’t order Navalny’s death in February, US agencies believe: WSJ
https://www.politico.eu/article/alexei-navalny-vladimir-putin-death-order-russia/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/alexei-navalny-vladimir-putin-death-order-russia/)
This is Russian propaganda, KGB propaganda and propaganda of US Democrats (friends of the Russians). Biden wants putin to support him in the election, so the US is spreading these lies. If such lies are spread by the CIA, then the CIA is working for US Democrats.
Navalny was killed on the orders of putin, before the elections, to ensure the legitimacy of these elections in Na.zi russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: AM24 on April 27, 2024, 15:15
Ok, lets get some things straight.

Forbes is a 100+ year old American business magazine. Its editor-in-chief is Steve Forbes who is a conservative and Republican, who also has run for the GOP's presidential nomination twice!

WSJ is the Wall Street Journal, another American business publication and owned by Rupert Murdoch, a well-known conservative who also owns Fox News, and supports the Republican party and Trump. He also has a long history and association with Putin.

Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 27, 2024, 15:38
Ok, lets get some things straight.

Forbes is a 100+ year old American business magazine. Its editor-in-chief is Steve Forbes who is a conservative and Republican, who also has run for the GOP's presidential nomination twice!

WSJ is the Wall Street Journal, another American business publication and owned by Rupert Murdoch, a well-known conservative who also owns Fox News, and supports the Republican party and Trump. He also has a long history and association with Putin.

Thank you for this detailed clarification.

But it is of no use. The factual world of our stocker2014 is a world with the foresight of someone in a closed tin can. Unfortunately, he was therefore never able to see beyond the edge of the can. And since the can is round on the inside, his cramped knowledge keeps spinning in its tiny closed circuit.

Therefore, any argument is pointless. If someone like that decides that the earth is a disk, you can never dissuade them.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 27, 2024, 16:07
Ok, lets get some things straight.

Forbes is a 100+ year old American business magazine. Its editor-in-chief is Steve Forbes who is a conservative and Republican, who also has run for the GOP's presidential nomination twice!

WSJ is the Wall Street Journal, another American business publication and owned by Rupert Murdoch, a well-known conservative who also owns Fox News, and supports the Republican party and Trump. He also has a long history and association with Putin.
And what did you want to say with this reference information?  ;D
Have you decided to show off your knowledge?  :)

This edition of Forbes published a libel based on the opinion of some retired soldier. This is funny and amateurish. Read the official information from the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Or listen in to what military experts say, incl. Ukrainian.

WSJ? What does it have to do with it?  ???

I have no updates on this issue. Any redeployment is a tactical technique. Using the phrase “panic” among the Ukrainian Armed Forces and unprepared units is a Russian propaganda technique.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces have only one problem - the shortage or absence of weapons. There are no other problems.

Only this edition of Forbes allowed itself to write that nonsense; no one else writes such nonsense.

The New York Times is also an old and famous publication. And very often this publication publishes anti-Ukrainian propaganda articles ordered by the Russians. Whoever pays is the one who is published by all these “respected” publications.

And even if we theoretically assume that on some part of the front there was a mistake by the commanders, this does not mean that this should be published. Because such a publication causes great reputational damage to the Armed Forces of Ukraine and this is beneficial to the Russians. Therefore, anyone who publishes something like this is an accomplice of the Russians.

As for Ocheretyne, this line of defense is under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and this is the main thing.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 27, 2024, 17:42
As for Ocheretyne, this line of defense is under the control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and this is the main thing.

Except that it's not. Your information is outdated. Most of the things you post have a delay of a few days at best, often much more. You should up your game; you're not only misinformed but also too slow.

Unfortunately, Ocheretyne is now virtually under russian control. See it confirmed, last night, by this well-informed Ukrainian vlogger (book his channel)

https://youtu.be/z3aFIdf0fiI (https://youtu.be/z3aFIdf0fiI)

You can thank your beloved maga clowns for all this, for delaying the bill that was meant to supply weapons for the Ukrainian defense. It took far too long for Mike Johnson to be convinced to change his mind, and even then, a majority of Republicans still voted against it.

Rest assured that even if the US magically seals the border so that only US citizens are allowed to enter and no one else, and even if the national debt is magically canceled, these maga isolationist clowns would still vote against Ukraine. All those objections you and other gullible poor souls still believe in are just for show.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/27/7453297/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/27/7453297/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 00:00
Poland and Lithuania pledge to help Kyiv repatriate Ukrainians subject to military draft
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/25/poland-and-lithuania-pledge-to-help-kyiv-repatriate-ukrainians-subject-to-military-draft (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/25/poland-and-lithuania-pledge-to-help-kyiv-repatriate-ukrainians-subject-to-military-draft)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 02:17
Unfortunately, Ocheretyne is now virtually under russian control.
...
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/27/7453297/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/27/7453297/)
1. Quote from the Ukrainian newspaper to which you referred and which repeat my words.

"Quote from Voloshyn: "The enemy managed to break through and establish a foothold in a certain part of this settlement [Ocheretyne – ed.]. Currently, the unit in which the enemy is located is under our fire control. All measures are being taken to drive the enemy out of there, and heavy fighting continues. Units of the Defenсe Forces are monitoring the situation.""

2. This blogger is not a military expert, he reads what is written in Ukraine, and then translates it into English for a foreign audience. Much of what he says sounds amateurish. But you can listen to him.

3. “Help” from US Democrats (friends of the Russians) over the past 10 years has led to the occupation of Crimea, huge parts of the Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions. Over the past 2 years, the Russians have occupied a huge amount of Ukrainian territory and killed hundreds of thousands of people.
As for the delay in aid from the Republicans, it only led to minor problems, but the Republicans demanded that long-range missiles be sent to Ukraine and froze Russian assets in the United States. Also, the Republicans showed the whole world that Biden is a KGB agent who has no plan regarding Ukraine.

Biden - fuck you!
Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 02:19
Poland and Lithuania pledge to help Kyiv repatriate Ukrainians subject to military draft
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/25/poland-and-lithuania-pledge-to-help-kyiv-repatriate-ukrainians-subject-to-military-draft (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/25/poland-and-lithuania-pledge-to-help-kyiv-repatriate-ukrainians-subject-to-military-draft)
+100

Europarasites! Return all Ukrainians to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 02:20
… you will have to recheck your sources, because infos provided by them are critically suspicious… if you need some, just ask… :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 02:23
Poland and Lithuania pledge to help Kyiv repatriate Ukrainians subject to military draft
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/25/poland-and-lithuania-pledge-to-help-kyiv-repatriate-ukrainians-subject-to-military-draft (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/25/poland-and-lithuania-pledge-to-help-kyiv-repatriate-ukrainians-subject-to-military-draft)
+100

Europarasites! Return all Ukrainians to Ukraine!
… you should ask yourself why they are not returning by goodwill… I see lot of young aukrainians through the EU, having the best times of their life… enjoying in great cars and in popular destinations clubs…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 03:36
Ukraine pulls US-provided Abrams tanks from the front lines over Russian drone threats
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-abrams-tanks-19d71475d427875653a2130063a8fb7a
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 04:07
… you will have to recheck your sources, because infos provided by them are critically suspicious… if you need some, just ask… :)
https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2024/04/27/7453297/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/news/2024/04/27/7453297/)

You have already been given a link to the source. Check it out. I have already even quoted him.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 04:08
Poland and Lithuania pledge to help Kyiv repatriate Ukrainians subject to military draft
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/25/poland-and-lithuania-pledge-to-help-kyiv-repatriate-ukrainians-subject-to-military-draft (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/25/poland-and-lithuania-pledge-to-help-kyiv-repatriate-ukrainians-subject-to-military-draft)
+100

Europarasites! Return all Ukrainians to Ukraine!
… you should ask yourself why they are not returning by goodwill… I see lot of young aukrainians through the EU, having the best times of their life… enjoying in great cars and in popular destinations clubs…
War, politics of Ukraine, policy of Europarasites to steal human resources in Ukraine. There are many answers to your question.
With their policies, Europarasites help Russian orcs.

Europarasites - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 04:13
Ukraine pulls US-provided Abrams tanks from the front lines over Russian drone threats
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-abrams-tanks-19d71475d427875653a2130063a8fb7a
31 tanks from US Democrats is certainly a large number. Biden “thank you” for the 31 tanks sent to Ukraine in January 2023. And what a nightmare, as many as 5 tanks were destroyed by the Russians. These are such huge losses...

Once again, tanks without the support of fighter aircrafts and helicopters are worth nothing, zero. US Democrats do not give Ukraine F16 and helicopters.
For reference: the Russians have thousands of tanks versus 31 tanks given by stupid democrats.

US Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 04:18
Communists in the US Democratic Party voting to help the anti-communist country Ukraine is this a new horror movie or are Ukrainians being treated as idiots? US DEMOCRATS think smart Ukrainians will believe that US communists are against communist China and communist-Na.zi russia?

US Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 04:35
trucic, following what you write, Ukraine should sign the capitulation and let the Russian orcs through to the EU borders. Ukraine borders on countries such as Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Moldova. I think it will be a good gift for NATO when the Russian army of orcs, reinforced by Ukrainian soldiers, approaches the borders of these countries.
 ;D ;D ;D

And this is all possible thanks to the policies of US Democrats.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 05:54
Ukraine pulls US-provided Abrams tanks from the front lines over Russian drone threats
https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-war-abrams-tanks-19d71475d427875653a2130063a8fb7a
31 tanks from US Democrats is certainly a large number. Biden “thank you” for the 31 tanks sent to Ukraine in January 2023. And what a nightmare, as many as 5 tanks were destroyed by the Russians. These are such huge losses...

Once again, tanks without the support of fighter aircrafts and helicopters are worth nothing, zero. US Democrats do not give Ukraine F16 and helicopters.
For reference: the Russians have thousands of tanks versus 31 tanks given by stupid democrats.

US Democrats - fuck you!
… don’t be modest - few aircraft carriers, hundred x-wings and tie fighters… and you will be on the right path…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 05:57
Don’t just assume Trump will back Russia, says Polish foreign minister
https://www.politico.eu/article/dont-just-assume-trump-will-back-russia-says-polish-minister/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/dont-just-assume-trump-will-back-russia-says-polish-minister/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 28, 2024, 07:00

"Quote from Voloshyn: "The enemy managed to break through and establish a foothold in a certain part of this settlement [Ocheretyne – ed.]. Currently, the unit in which the enemy is located is under our fire control.

Your poor comprehension of written words and your wishful thinking are already notorious.

"Under fire control" doesn't mean under control.
"Under fire control" means the russians have occupied it, and the Ukrainians are shooting at them.

Both that well-informed (unlike you) vlogger and pravda.com.ua have published the same map.
Check it again (attached), and you'll realise the sad consequences of your dear maga clowns anti-Ukraine policies: many Ukrainian lives, precious equipment (about to be paraded in Moscow) and land lost in the battle of Avdiivka and the subsequent russian advance all the way into Ocheretyne.

"Just minor problems" muffles stoker with his head in the sand.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 08:22
… fights in Netailove are in progress at the moment… because of water basins in Karlovka… colapse of front was expected, because of insuficient potential of army rotations…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 08:27
Rusia aprende de los errores militares en Ucrania y perfecciona su ejército
https://elpais.com/internacional/2024-04-28/rusia-aprende-de-los-errores-militares-en-ucrania-y-perfecciona-su-ejercito.html
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 09:22
Don’t just assume Trump will back Russia, says Polish foreign minister
https://www.politico.eu/article/dont-just-assume-trump-will-back-russia-says-polish-minister/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/dont-just-assume-trump-will-back-russia-says-polish-minister/)
+100

"Indeed, he noted Russia's military would only be empowered toward further conquest by taking Ukraine.

"We have a choice: Either having a defeated Russian army outside the borders of Ukraine or a victorious Russian army on the border of Poland. And what Putin would then do is what Hitler did to Czechoslovakia, he would take the industry and the people of Ukraine and mobilize them to go further," Sikorski said."

""You know, half the German tanks that invaded Poland in 1939 were actually Czech. So if Putin conquers Ukraine, he will be more powerful. And the challenge for us would be bigger ... It's better to to stop Putin in Ukraine, 500-700km east of here," he continued."

+100

_______
"Sikorski was wary about wading to too deep into German political debates, but said he hoped Chancellor Olaf Scholz would take his lead from the U.S. — which has now sent long range ATACMS missiles to Ukraine. It was a hint that Germany should send Taurus missiles to Kyiv as a response to Russia's attacks against Ukrainian energy infrastructure.
"I hope the chancellor is encouraged by the events of the last few days. Well, the United States has supplied long-range missiles to Ukraine: the famous ATACMS with a range of 300km. And I hope your chancellor appreciates that it's a response to the Russian escalation, which is drastic," he said.
__________

Scholz is an associate of KGB agent Merkel. Germany will not give missiles.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 09:32

"Quote from Voloshyn: "The enemy managed to break through and establish a foothold in a certain part of this settlement [Ocheretyne – ed.]. Currently, the unit in which the enemy is located is under our fire control.

Your poor comprehension of written words and your wishful thinking are already notorious.

"Under fire control" doesn't mean under control.
"Under fire control" means the russians have occupied it, and the Ukrainians are shooting at them.

Both that well-informed (unlike you) vlogger and pravda.com.ua have published the same map.
Check it again (attached), and you'll realise the sad consequences of your dear maga clowns anti-Ukraine policies: many Ukrainian lives, precious equipment (about to be paraded in Moscow) and land lost in the battle of Avdiivka and the subsequent russian advance all the way into Ocheretyne.

"Just minor problems" muffles stoker with his head in the sand.
1. You don’t understand military terminology and don’t understand what I’m writing. You look
ignorant. But I forgive you.  ;D ;D ;D
2. Even before this “help” from the Democrats last year, Avdeevka was surrounded by 2/3 by Russians. There was no holding her back. Moreover, the Russians began to use modernized aerial bombs.
3. US Democrats are forcing Ukraine to fight with Russian methods of the First World War. This means that Ukraine will lose, it’s only a matter of time. The Russians have more soldiers, more tanks and have aircraft and missiles.
4. This “help” from the Democrats is already arriving at the front and will soon be delivered 100%. But I think that it will not help against air bombs. Ukraine's lack of F16 and a sufficient amount of air defense may lead to the fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces will retreat. And this is not the fault of the Republicans, but of the US Democrats. As for the long-range missiles that the Democrats allegedly supply, I have not yet seen their use on Ukrainian territory. Perhaps something will happen, but how many of these missiles will there be and will the Democrats allow shooting at the Kerch Bridge and objects on Russian territory? The answer is obvious.
5. The reason for the occupation of Ukraine is Biden’s friendly policy towards russia and the failure to supply Ukraine with aircraft, tanks and long-range missiles for two years. It is obvious. And only Democratic trolls are trying to blame Republicans for Biden’s criminal policies.

As always. US Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 09:35
… fights in Netailove are in progress at the moment… because of water basins in Karlovka… colapse of front was expected, because of insuficient potential of army rotations…
No, there is no need to blame the Ukrainian Armed Forces for doing something wrong. The Ukrainian Armed Forces have no aviation, no missiles and no tanks. Also, the Ukrainian Armed Forces do not have as many soldiers as russia has. If Europarasites think that Ukraine will throw living people under Russian tanks, then Ukraine will most likely tell all Europarasites to go to hell.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 09:38
Rusia aprende de los errores militares en Ucrania y perfecciona su ejército
https://elpais.com/internacional/2024-04-28/rusia-aprende-de-los-errores-militares-en-ucrania-y-perfecciona-su-ejercito.html
If they write about the mistakes of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then this article was ordered by the KGB.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 28, 2024, 11:04

3. US Democrats are forcing Ukraine to fight with Russian methods of the First World War

For too many months, before Mike Johnson woke up and allowed the bill meant to supply Ukraine with desperately needed weapons to be voted on with Democratic unanimity, your dear maga clowns forced Ukraine to fight not only outnumbered but also outgunned and without ammunition.
This is why Avdiivka and now Ocheretyne have been lost, and even more land will be lost in the coming days until the delayed weapons reach the front line.

What is even worse is that many Ukrainians unnecessarily died because of your maga darlings isolationist policies: "minor problems," say putin's useful idiots.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 11:38
Situation on frontline has worsened, Ukraine army chief says
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68916317.amp (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68916317.amp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 11:43
POLAND MAKES NEW STATEMENT ON UKRAINIAN MEN
Poland may return Ukrainian men of conscription age.
https://en.socportal.info/en/news/poland-makes-new-statement-on-ukrainian-men/amp/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 11:46
It's my personal opinion. I believe that all countries in the world are fighting against Ukraine. The EU and other countries buy gas and oil from the Russians. The EU, USA and other countries trade with Russians through third countries. The same applies to China, to which even minimal sanctions have not been applied. US Democrats also lifted sanctions on Iran.
The criminal policy of US democrats and Europarasites will lead to the strengthening of the Russians and the hot phase of the third world war on the territory of the EU countries. The same applies to Taiwan and Israel.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 11:51
… your country is in the gap between two giants… they are pushing their interests and you are paying huge price because of that…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 12:11

3. US Democrats are forcing Ukraine to fight with Russian methods of the First World War

For too many months, before Mike Johnson woke up and allowed the bill meant to supply Ukraine with desperately needed weapons to be voted on with Democratic unanimity, your dear maga clowns forced Ukraine to fight not only outnumbered but also outgunned and without ammunition.
This is why Avdiivka and now Ocheretyne have been lost, and even more land will be lost in the coming days until the delayed weapons reach the front line.

What is even worse is that many Ukrainians unnecessarily died because of your maga darlings isolationist policies: "minor problems," say putin's useful idiots.
Everything you wrote is lies and propaganda of US democrats and Russians.
I have already given answers to all these questions many times and provided links to proofs. I’m not answering to you, but to the gullible readers who are being told lies by Democratic trolls.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 12:15
Situation on frontline has worsened, Ukraine army chief says
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68916317.amp (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68916317.amp)
When reading this article, you need to understand what Gen Syrskyi said directly and what is propaganda from US Democrats. In fact, Gen Syrskyi said very little. Because he is not allowed to say whatever he thinks about Biden.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 12:17
… your country is in the gap between two giants… they are pushing their interests and you are paying huge price because of that…
No, Ukraine is unlucky that the in US is in power with cowards, bast.ards and democrats (friends of the Russians). Also, the EU is a union of Europarasites.
Only during the reign of US Democratic presidents do the Russians go to war. This is confirmation that US Democrats are allies and friends of the Russians.
During the third world war, all countries were unlucky. All countries suffer losses of various kinds.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 12:51
 ;D ;D ;D

🚨 CNN POLL:

— President Trump leads Biden 49% to 43% in a two-way race.

— President Trump leads Biden 42% to 33% including third party candidates.

— 55% say the Trump presidency was a success. 39% say the Biden presidency is a success.

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1784562715760992457
______

NBC POLL: WHICH CANDIDATE IS BETTER....?

— Handling a crisis: Trump +4

— Strong record as president: Trump +7

— Competent and effective: Trump +9

— Necessary mental and physical health: Trump +19

— Dealing with inflation and cost of living: Trump +22

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1782062385437556880
_______

Trump - crush the Democrats!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 12:52
Here are five straight minutes that show exactly why the special counsel noted Biden's diminished mental fitness.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1756551610308702692
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 12:54
Crooked Joe Biden is not a “decent” person. He is a lifetime chronic liar in cognitive decline — and corrupt to the core.

He has spent his career selling out the American people to the highest bidder and enabling his degenerate family to profit off his name and connections.

He has used his presidential power to target anyone with whom he disagrees — and is currently attempting to jail his political rival.

On his rare days of lucidity and coherency, he will cheat, steal, and lie — knowing he’ll forever be protected by his allies in the media and the bureaucracy.

He’ll say whatever to whomever if it means getting another vote. There is no bottom to which this pathological liar will not stoop; not a word he says can be trusted.

There’s nothing he will not make up — demonstrably lying in virtually every public appearance, knowing he’ll never be held to account, no matter how egregious the falsehood.

He’s a shell of a man propped up by an establishment of power-hungry Democrats seeking control.

Biden is an embarrassment to our country.

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1784429572273877068
_______
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 13:20
To prevent people from reading propaganda from US Democrats, I am providing a link to a direct interview with Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Oleksandr Syrskyi.
He talks about the military situation at the front in Ukraine.

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3857752-situation-on-front-lines-has-escalated-cinc-syrskyi.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3857752-situation-on-front-lines-has-escalated-cinc-syrskyi.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 13:24
Russians are killing Ukrainians on German territory. This is the result of Scholz's pro-Russian policy. All Russians should be deported from the EU.

Murder of two Ukrainians in Germany: Russian suspect arrested
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/28/7453379/ (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/28/7453379/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 13:41
Ukraine-Kommandanten warnen: «Der Donbass fällt im Oktober»
https://www.blick.ch/ausland/trotz-us-milliardenhilfe-ukraine-kommandanten-warnen-der-donbass-faellt-im-oktober-id19681414.html (https://www.blick.ch/ausland/trotz-us-milliardenhilfe-ukraine-kommandanten-warnen-der-donbass-faellt-im-oktober-id19681414.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 13:49
Ukraine-Kommandanten warnen: «Der Donbass fällt im Oktober»
https://www.blick.ch/ausland/trotz-us-milliardenhilfe-ukraine-kommandanten-warnen-der-donbass-faellt-im-oktober-id19681414.html (https://www.blick.ch/ausland/trotz-us-milliardenhilfe-ukraine-kommandanten-warnen-der-donbass-faellt-im-oktober-id19681414.html)
I couldn't read the whole article. The text breaks off. Post the text here.
From what I have seen, this is the opinion of individual soldiers on the front line. They also say the same thing that I say.
But I'm not as pessimistic as they are. If Trump becomes US President, US policy will be more effective and the Russians will have to retreat.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 28, 2024, 14:25
… you are saying that you are not pesimistic wherever you are, but they are on frontline…?! Whose opinion is more important…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 28, 2024, 15:22
Crooked Joe Biden is not a “decent” person. He is a lifetime chronic liar in cognitive decline — and corrupt to the core.

He has spent his career selling out the American people to the highest bidder and enabling his degenerate family to profit off his name and connections.

He has used his presidential power to target anyone with whom he disagrees — and is currently attempting to jail his political rival.

On his rare days of lucidity and coherency, he will cheat, steal, and lie — knowing he’ll forever be protected by his allies in the media and the bureaucracy.

He’ll say whatever to whomever if it means getting another vote. There is no bottom to which this pathological liar will not stoop; not a word he says can be trusted.

There’s nothing he will not make up — demonstrably lying in virtually every public appearance, knowing he’ll never be held to account, no matter how egregious the falsehood.

He’s a shell of a man propped up by an establishment of power-hungry Democrats seeking control.

Biden is an embarrassment to our country.

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1784429572273877068
_______
+100


If I were like you, I would write: This is all Republican propaganda - supported by the KGB. But I'll refrain from making generalized crap statements.

I comment that Trump is not a whit better - on the contrary.

But you'll learn that too. It just needs a little more time.

When the moment comes when there is no more help for Ukraine from the USA, you will write that the Europarasites should pay for it. You will also insist that all Ukrainians who have fled abroad must return so that the country does not bleed to death. I sincerely hope for your sake that you never find yourself in the position of having to "fill the demographic gaps" in the country you have to flee to. Nobody wants someone like you in their country anyway. We have enough of people like that ourselves!

And if anyone should ask you: What have you - stocker2024 - actually done for your country? and you should be honest in your answer, you will have to reply: I haven't done anything except demand that others do what they have to do. I could offer nothing but a spiteful big mouth with nothing - absolutely nothing - behind it.

You are a poor spiteful creature who is not worthy of a democracy, his people, his fatherland and the society in his country.

Provided that you are Ukrainian at all...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 15:50
… you are saying that you are not pesimistic wherever you are, but they are on frontline…?! Whose opinion is more important…?!
The soldier on the front line does not know what the General Staff and military experts know. The soldier only sees his narrow section of the front, and his eye sees only what the aim of his weapon shows. The soldier does not see the whole picture, both military and political.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 28, 2024, 15:58
You are a poor spiteful creature who is not worthy of a democracy, his people, his fatherland and the society in his country.
:'( :'( :'(
And what’s more, he wrote it so beautifully, like a poet!  :)
You are better at literature than understanding politics and history.  ;D


I see that the Europarasites sense Trump’s approach.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 28, 2024, 16:22
Everything you wrote is lies and propaganda of US democrats and Russians.

Here is the undeniable reality that only putin's useful idiots refuse to acknowledge:
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 01:41
Communists with Ukrainian flags, always voting the way KGB agent Biden tells them.
The US Democratic Party is a fascist party. Only in fascist parties everyone votes the same way, as their Fuhrer tells them.
The Republican Party of the United States is a democratic party in which party members have the right to have their own opinions and promote policies for the benefit of the people of the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 01:56
Democrat Rep. Summer Lee paints a rosy picture of the antisemitic protests on college campuses — or, as she calls them, "students who are engaging in the time-honored tradition of civil disobedience"

video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1784746518181732583
_______

Democrats are friends of all the world's terrorists.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 01:59
Islamists take over Hamburg, Germany.

Hundreds of Islamists have taken to the streets in a show of force against the local German population.

The group demanded Germany be turned into an Islamic Capiphate.

Video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1784297130942714262
________
Europarasites are pursuing the same policies as US Democrats.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 29, 2024, 02:02
… if yours world vision is real, then something must be wrong with our perception…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 02:02
“China actually incentivizes chemical companies in China to produce the chemicals that produce fentanyl. Now, mind you, they're illegal in China…And so they are poisoning 10s of 1000s of Americans every single year with the poison that they're sending over here.”

Video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1784582339206816101
_______

This is the result of Biden's policies. I have written a lot about this before in this topic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 02:04
 ;D ;D ;D
And this is after Biden spent tens of millions of dollars on ads — sad!

— President Trump leads Biden 49% to 43% in a two-way race.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 29, 2024, 02:05
Islamists take over Hamburg, Germany.

Hundreds of Islamists have taken to the streets in a show of force against the local German population.

The group demanded Germany be turned into an Islamic Capiphate.

Video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1784297130942714262
________
Europarasites are pursuing the same policies as US Democrats.
 ;D ;D ;D
… you can understand why they are not willing to give their weapons anymore…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 02:08
Congress Issues Subpoenas On Inmate Tied To Hunter Biden

https://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2024/04/26/congress-issues-subpoenas-on-inmate-tied-to-hunter-biden/?sh=5ffdee6c7464 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2024/04/26/congress-issues-subpoenas-on-inmate-tied-to-hunter-biden/?sh=5ffdee6c7464)
______
The Bidens belong in prison!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 02:09
Islamists take over Hamburg, Germany.

Hundreds of Islamists have taken to the streets in a show of force against the local German population.

The group demanded Germany be turned into an Islamic Capiphate.

Video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1784297130942714262
________
Europarasites are pursuing the same policies as US Democrats.
 ;D ;D ;D
… you can understand why they are not willing to give their weapons anymore…
Europarasites still denies the fact that there is a third world war. Soon the Islamists will evict the Germans from their homes.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 02:10
This is the USA under the Democrats.

Horror as GWU protester carries sign with Nazi ‘final solution’ sign calling for extermination of Jews.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMF1ZZrWUAAz--d?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 29, 2024, 02:13
… internal problems of DE are not a reason to celebrate… you have to understand that whole world have their problems, your wishes of WW3 and EU concquered by Russians are unreal…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 04:09
… internal problems of DE are not a reason to celebrate… you have to understand that whole world have their problems, your wishes of WW3 and EU concquered by Russians are unreal…
No problem. Let the Europarasites continue to tell the citizens of their countries that everything is normal and there is no war. And that Russians are friends of Germany and the EU.  ;D
In 1938, no one in European countries thought that the Russians would occupy half of Europe. But this is history, who needs history, because history always lies!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 04:16
USA during the reign of KGB agent Biden and the US Democrats.

"America we have a problem

“Al-Qassam, you make us proud, take another soldier out”

“We say justice, you say how? Burn Tel Aviv to the ground”

“Hamas, we love you. We support your rockets too”

Extremists at
@Columbia
 chant in support for Hamas terror."

https://twitter.com/DavidSaranga/status/1781926252284166460

Video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1781926252284166460
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2024, 07:02
Communists with Ukrainian flags, always voting the way KGB agent Biden tells them.
The US Democratic Party is a fascist party. Only in fascist parties everyone votes the same way, as their Fuhrer tells them.
The Republican Party of the United States is a democratic party in which party members have the right to have their own opinions and promote policies for the benefit of the people of the United States.

Only putin's useful idiots would say that Ukraine does not need the support of the people of the United States.
A majority of the Republican Party believes that to be true, and you are okay with that - a normal thought among putin's useful idiots.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 29, 2024, 08:59
… ongoing mobilization problems…
https://t.me/odesalivetv/64539 (https://t.me/odesalivetv/64539)
https://www.ukr.net/news/details/odesa/104202698.html (https://www.ukr.net/news/details/odesa/104202698.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 09:40
Only putin's useful idiots would say that Ukraine does not need the support of the people of the United States.
In the presidential election, the people of the United States will vote for Trump, and rightly so.
After Trump's victory, Ukraine will say what it thinks about Biden and the Democrats. These will not be flattering statements.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 09:44
POLITICO's Jonathan Martin: "Biden's folks don't want him to debate ... and risk exposing Biden like that on national TV."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1784939311256752554
__________
Biden is a coward who is even afraid to participate in election debates with Trump. Or Biden has already forgotten even his name. US Democrats are asking people to vote for a scarecrow who cannot even enter the debate.

Biden - get the he.ll out of the White House!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 09:46
CNN POLL: 66% of Americans DISAPPROVE of Biden's handling of the economy — while 70% rate the Biden economy as "POOR."

"The economy is overwhelmingly the most important issue for voters — this is NOT insignificant."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1784934512561885193
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 09:47
President Trump: "For the good of the nation, we should debate...anytime, anyplace."

Crooked Joe Biden: "If I were him, I'd want to debate me too."

https://twitter.com/i/status/1784947499259580782
_______

+100
______

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMVgf5KWMAE6sus?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 29, 2024, 10:01
Ukraine retreats from Donetsk villages, citing lack of ammo
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-army-withdraw-three-villages-donetsk-russia-lack-ammo-zelenskyy/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-army-withdraw-three-villages-donetsk-russia-lack-ammo-zelenskyy/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2024, 10:21
Ukraine retreats from Donetsk villages, citing lack of ammo
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-army-withdraw-three-villages-donetsk-russia-lack-ammo-zelenskyy/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-army-withdraw-three-villages-donetsk-russia-lack-ammo-zelenskyy/)

Sad consequence of a majority of Republicans delaying all weapons supplies for Ukraine for many months: Ukraine is now outgunned 10:1 or so.

russia is now pushing hard to maximize its territorial gains before the long-awaited weapons shipments (a majority of republicans voted against) reach the front line.

putin's useful idiots are cheering for these delays ("minor problems," they say), being rather focused on internal US political squabbles, thousands of miles away from the front lines where their compatriots are dying without ammunition to defend themselves against an imperialist regime.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 10:26
Ukraine is now outgunned 10:1 or so.
Under US Democrats, Russians have always had an advantage over Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 10:30
Ukraine retreats from Donetsk villages, citing lack of ammo
https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-army-withdraw-three-villages-donetsk-russia-lack-ammo-zelenskyy/ (https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-army-withdraw-three-villages-donetsk-russia-lack-ammo-zelenskyy/)
These are tactics. The Ukrainian Armed Forces is a mobile army that performs maneuvers. It is not advisable to stand to the death for every settlement, unless of course it is a height or a fortified city. With the help that the Democrats gave, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, at best, will only be able to defend themselves and periodically retreat.
Without F16 fighters, long-range missiles, helicopters and tanks, Ukraine will not be able to de-occupy the territory. Therefore, news that Ukraine is retreating will be frequent.
But, personally, I am optimistic, and even with the meager amount of weapons that the cowardly communist democrats gave, the Armed Forces of Ukraine may well show daring results.

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2024, 10:38
Ukraine is now outgunned 10:1 or so.
Under US Democrats, Russians have always had an advantage over Ukraine.

Your poor understanding of democratic principles is preventing you from realizing that the US is NOT "under Democrats."

The House of Representatives holds significant decision-making power in the US, and it is currently "under Republican" control.
They are the reason the weapons supplies from Ukraine were delayed for far too long.

But putin's useful idiots have been brainwashed to believe that maga is good for Ukraine, despite overwhelming evidence proving the contrary.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 11:13
Ukraine is now outgunned 10:1 or so.
Under US Democrats, Russians have always had an advantage over Ukraine.

Your poor understanding of democratic principles is preventing you from realizing that the US is NOT "under Democrats."

The House of Representatives holds significant decision-making power in the US, and it is currently "under Republican" control.
They are the reason the weapons supplies from Ukraine were delayed for far too long.

But putin's useful idiots have been brainwashed to believe that maga is good for Ukraine, despite overwhelming evidence proving the contrary.
Another lie and propaganda from Democratic Party trolls.
Everyone knows that in 2022, the Republicans forced Biden to sign the Lend-Lease law for Ukraine. Biden, of course, signed it, but put zero weapons under this law. The same applies to the transfer of aviation and missiles to Ukraine. In this topic, I already provided a link to the Republican proposals and their victory plan for Ukraine. But KGB agent Biden did not comply with these proposals.
The President of the United States decides who is given how many and what kind of weapons. Biden works for putin, and expects support from putin in the US elections. This is all you need to know about Biden and the US Democrats.

US Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2024, 12:41
Another lie and propaganda from Democratic Party trolls.
Everyone knows that in 2022, the Republicans forced Biden to sign the Lend-Lease law for Ukraine. Biden, of course, signed it, but put zero weapons under this law. The same applies to the transfer of aviation and missiles to Ukraine. In this topic, I already provided a link to the Republican proposals and their victory plan for Ukraine. But KGB agent Biden did not comply with these proposals.
The President of the United States decides who is given how many and what kind of weapons. Biden works for putin, and expects support from putin in the US elections. This is all you need to know about Biden and the US Democrats.

US Democrats - fuck you!
What your poor comprehension skills prevent you from realizing is that the report you are referring to was not made by maga, which is now controlling the Republican Party.

That report was made by three old-school republicans who are part of the 100 minority who voted for Ukraine, while the maga majority of 112 voted against it.

You should be so thankful for the unanimous Democrat vote which, combined with the old-school Republican minority vote (including the 3 authors of that report), succeeded in approving military aid for Ukraine.

Only putin's useful idiots believe that maga isolationist clowns, who now control the Republican Party, will ever vote in favor of Ukraine.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 12:56
Another lie and propaganda from Democratic Party trolls.
Everyone knows that in 2022, the Republicans forced Biden to sign the Lend-Lease law for Ukraine. Biden, of course, signed it, but put zero weapons under this law. The same applies to the transfer of aviation and missiles to Ukraine. In this topic, I already provided a link to the Republican proposals and their victory plan for Ukraine. But KGB agent Biden did not comply with these proposals.
The President of the United States decides who is given how many and what kind of weapons. Biden works for putin, and expects support from putin in the US elections. This is all you need to know about Biden and the US Democrats.

US Democrats - fuck you!
What your poor comprehension skills prevent you from realizing is that the report you are referring to was not made by maga, which is now controlling the Republican Party.

That report was made by three old-school republicans who are part of the 100 minority who voted for Ukraine, while the maga majority of 112 voted against it.

You should be so thankful for the unanimous Democrat vote which, combined with the old-school Republican minority vote (including the 3 authors of that report), succeeded in approving military aid for Ukraine.

Only putin's useful idiots believe that maga isolationist clowns, who now control the Republican Party, will ever vote in favor of Ukraine.
The democrat troll no longer knows how to get out of it because Biden did not give Ukraine the necessary weapons. Due to the fault of Biden and the Democrats, people are dying in Ukraine and the territory is occupied. But for some reason the Republicans are to blame.

Are the Democrat trolls idiots? The answer is idiots.  ;D ;D ;D

As for these maga, which are the only ones the Democratic trolls talk about, it was these maga who also forced Biden to sign the Lend-Lease law.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 12:58
You should be so thankful for the unanimous Democrat vote which

Democrats - go to he.ll with your meager help and pro-Russian policies.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2024, 13:03
You should be so thankful for the unanimous Democrat vote which

Democrats - go to he.ll with your meager help and pro-Russian policies.

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian defense is in hell because of the maga isolationist policies that prevented them from accessing the weapons and ammunition Biden, the Democrats and the old-school Republican minority were ready to send to the front line, many months ago.

But only brainwashed putin's useful idiots will continue to cheer for maga isolationist clowns when faced with the overwhelming evidence that maga will vote against Ukraine, no matter what.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 13:18
Meanwhile, the Ukrainian defense is in hell because of the maga isolationist policies that prevented them from accessing the weapons and ammunition Biden, the Democrats and the old-school Republican minority were ready to send to the front line, many months ago.
This is a lie and propaganda of democrats and Russians.
The Russians were ready to launch an offensive in the fall of 2023, even then the Russians increased their military power. But only thanks to the bluff of Ukrainian intelligence, it was possible to mislead the stupid Russian orcs. As a result, the Russians, instead of launching an offensive, built fortifications. Ukrainian military experts spoke about this. Of course, no one hears Ukraine, and on US TV channels they talk about Ukraine almost nothing. So of course the Democratic trolls don't know this story.
In winter, the Russians could not advance due to weather conditions. It’s spring now, the Russians have been ready to attack since last year and are advancing. The weapons that come from the Democrats are few and far between. This is not because the Republicans are to blame, but because the Democrats are not providing the necessary weapons (includes air defense and aviation, as I already wrote above).

maga will vote against Ukraine, no matter what.
Democratic propaganda. But this propaganda will not help the bas.tard Biden in the election. You are being paid money for your posts in vain.
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 13:20
I see that US Democratic trolls have nothing against Trump.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2024, 13:51
Democratic propaganda.

This is not propaganda.
This is the reality putin's useful idiots are brainwashed to reject.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2024, 14:55
From Kyiv Independent:

"While Putin doubtless will have prepared for new offensive operations, I suspect he has been banking more on Trump riding to the rescue than on his own forces."

Defying Trumpian isolationists and Putin appeasers on their own side of the aisle, congressional Republicans, along with the Democrats, have approved the support that Ukrainians have desperately been awaiting.


https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-trump-is-putins-only-hope-now/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 14:59
Democratic propaganda.
This is not propaganda.
This is the reality putin's useful idiots are brainwashed to reject.
This is the result of the cowardly and pro-Russian policies of Biden and the Democrats:
1. Unclosed borders.
2. Biden’s lack of a plan for Ukraine’s victory over russia.
3. Lack of a list of necessary weapons to carry out the victory plan.

Tell your curators to change your manual.  ;D ;D ;D
You are boring and repeat the same nonsense on every page. Moreover, on the pages of this topic I already explained to readers why the Republican Party is democratic.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on April 29, 2024, 15:01
From Kyiv Independent:

"While Putin doubtless will have prepared for new offensive operations, I suspect he has been banking more on Trump riding to the rescue than on his own forces."

Defying Trumpian isolationists and Putin appeasers on their own side of the aisle, congressional Republicans, along with the Democrats, have approved the support that Ukrainians have desperately been awaiting.


https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-trump-is-putins-only-hope-now/
The article was written at the request of the US Democrats.

Editor’s Note: Copyright, Project Syndicate. This article was published by Project Syndicate on April 25, 2024, and has been republished by the Kyiv Independent with permission.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on April 29, 2024, 16:52
Oh, snap... now even Kyiv Independent is publishing putin's propaganda... riiight!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on April 29, 2024, 17:15
Another lie and propaganda from Democratic Party trolls.
Everyone knows that in 2022, the Republicans forced Biden to sign the Lend-Lease law for Ukraine. Biden, of course, signed it, but put zero weapons under this law. The same applies to the transfer of aviation and missiles to Ukraine. In this topic, I already provided a link to the Republican proposals and their victory plan for Ukraine. But KGB agent Biden did not comply with these proposals.
The President of the United States decides who is given how many and what kind of weapons. Biden works for putin, and expects support from putin in the US elections. This is all you need to know about Biden and the US Democrats.

US Democrats - fuck you!
What your poor comprehension skills prevent you from realizing is that the report you are referring to was not made by maga, which is now controlling the Republican Party.

That report was made by three old-school republicans who are part of the 100 minority who voted for Ukraine, while the maga majority of 112 voted against it.

You should be so thankful for the unanimous Democrat vote which, combined with the old-school Republican minority vote (including the 3 authors of that report), succeeded in approving military aid for Ukraine.

Only putin's useful idiots believe that maga isolationist clowns, who now control the Republican Party, will ever vote in favor of Ukraine.
The democrat troll no longer knows how to get out of it because Biden did not give Ukraine the necessary weapons. Due to the fault of Biden and the Democrats, people are dying in Ukraine and the territory is occupied. But for some reason the Republicans are to blame.

Are the Democrat trolls idiots? The answer is idiots.  ;D ;D ;D

As for these maga, which are the only ones the Democratic trolls talk about, it was these maga who also forced Biden to sign the Lend-Lease law.

You live in a dream world.

Tump will - in my opinion - win the election.
And Ukraine will then - in my opinion - lose.

Should things turn out differently, I will be happy to admit my misjudgement. But I'm not very worried about that.

I'm much more worried if Trump wins and the USA is on its way to becoming what Russia already is today.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 30, 2024, 00:31
Another US precision-guided weapon falls prey to Russian electronic warfare, US says
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2024/04/another-us-precision-guided-weapon-falls-prey-russian-electronic-warfare-us-says/396141/ (https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2024/04/another-us-precision-guided-weapon-falls-prey-russian-electronic-warfare-us-says/396141/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 30, 2024, 01:26
В Україні вперше в історії створять жіночий підрозділ операторів БПЛА
https://apostrophe.ua/ua/news/society/2024-04-30/v-ukraine-vpervyie-v-istorii-sozdadut-jenskoe-podrazdelenie-operatorov-bpla/320121
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 30, 2024, 10:20
US temporarily approves energy transactions with major Russian banks
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/30/7453599/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/30/7453599/index.amp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 30, 2024, 10:22
Western insurers say Russian oil price cap doesn't work
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/western-insurers-say-russian-oil-price-cap-doesnt-work-2024-04-30/ (https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/western-insurers-say-russian-oil-price-cap-doesnt-work-2024-04-30/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on April 30, 2024, 23:24
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1784972427996680699
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on May 01, 2024, 01:08
Zelensky: Aid delivery has to speed up for Ukraine to 'disrupt Russian plans'
https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-aid-delivery-has-to-speed-up/
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 02, 2024, 15:03
According to this article, Gazprom has made a loss for the first time in 25 years. The net loss for 2023 is expected to amount to 6.4 billion euros.

If this is true, the attempt to cover the losses incurred in trade with Europe by selling to China has not worked either.

https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/gazprom-meldet-rekordverlust-von-6-4-milliarden-euro-im-jahr-2023-a-5c43cc20-7939-418b-8ef5-7c33e0909850 (https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/gazprom-meldet-rekordverlust-von-6-4-milliarden-euro-im-jahr-2023-a-5c43cc20-7939-418b-8ef5-7c33e0909850)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on May 02, 2024, 15:24
According to this article, Gazprom has made a loss for the first time in 25 years. The net loss for 2023 is expected to amount to 6.4 billion euros.

If this is true, the attempt to cover the losses incurred in trade with Europe by selling to China has not worked either.

https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/gazprom-meldet-rekordverlust-von-6-4-milliarden-euro-im-jahr-2023-a-5c43cc20-7939-418b-8ef5-7c33e0909850 (https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/gazprom-meldet-rekordverlust-von-6-4-milliarden-euro-im-jahr-2023-a-5c43cc20-7939-418b-8ef5-7c33e0909850)

The effectiveness of sanctions can take a while, especially as the development of infrastructure for energy supplies to Central Asia is likely to take years.

Certainly not decisive for the war, but it is remarkable that parts of Russia are affected by a flood of the century. Because all forces are concentrated in Ukraine, the people are largely on their own.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68796487 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68796487)


Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 05, 2024, 10:57
Messi, Neymar, Griezmann... nah... Vlad is the best:

https://youtu.be/Rfl026OR7b8

Donny is probably still keeping that ball as a cherished souvenir from someone he admires.
🤮

A bit old, but more valid than ever...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on May 08, 2024, 07:39
… I’m now officially worried - where is our friend, Stoker…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 08, 2024, 17:51
Interesting development.
As predicted, Moscow Taylor Greene, the maga extremist endorsed by stoker, filed a motion to remove Mike Johnson from speakership, exactly because he was brave enough to push forward the Ukraine aid.

He could heve been removed if not from the support from a large majority of Democrats, who... guess what... voted to keep a Republican in power.

Johnson Survives Greene’s Ouster Attempt as Democrats Join G.O.P. to Kill It https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/us/politics/greene-johnson-vacate.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/us/politics/greene-johnson-vacate.html)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 10, 2024, 08:23
… I’m now officially worried - where is our friend, Stoker…?!
Do you have any specific question for me?  ;D ;D ;D
Answers to many questions are in my posts in this topic. My posts will be relevant for many years to come.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 10, 2024, 08:30
US temporarily approves energy transactions with major Russian banks
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/30/7453599/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/04/30/7453599/index.amp)

Biden - fuck you!
US Democrats - fuck you!


If the Democrats gave aid to Ukraine, then they are giving money to their Russian friends too. Biden wants to earn putin's support in the US elections.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on May 10, 2024, 10:22
Welcome! :)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 11, 2024, 02:09
When Trump threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine, he got impeached.

Biden is actually withholding aid to Israel right now and Republicans aren’t going to impeach him?

I don’t care if you disagree with what Israel is doing. This is irrelevant. What’s relevant is we have a chance to score points against Biden and we’re not doing it?

COME ON, REPUBLICANS!

https://twitter.com/JoeyMannarinoUS/status/1788605987022131278
________

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 11, 2024, 02:10
MAGA women are hotter than liberal women

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM2tDCcWkAA2rR_?format=jpg&name=small)

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 11, 2024, 08:08
When Trump threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine, he got impeached.

Biden is actually withholding aid to Israel right now and Republicans aren’t going to impeach him?

I don’t care if you disagree with what Israel is doing. This is irrelevant. What’s relevant is we have a chance to score points against Biden and we’re not doing it?

COME ON, REPUBLICANS!

https://twitter.com/JoeyMannarinoUS/status/1788605987022131278
________

+100

Except that trump blocked the payment of the congressionally-mandated $400 million military aid package in an attempt to obtain quid pro quo cooperation from Zelenskyy.

He attempted to black-mail and coerce Zelenskyy into providing dirt on his counter-candidate son, in what became the infamous "perfect call"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2%80%93Ukraine_scandal
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 12, 2024, 14:10
(https://i.ibb.co/fntMphx/Screenshot-2024-05-12-at-11-53-22-Eurovision-2024-Results-Voting-Points.png)

Glory to Ukraine!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 12, 2024, 14:16
Joe Biden’s weakness as president has created conflict after conflict on the world stage, stoked antisemitic protests on college campuses, and fueled inflation.

https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1784613799384768567
______
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 13, 2024, 11:15
"AN ABSOLUTE DISASTER": President Trump post MASSIVE leads in battleground states over Crooked Joe Biden in New York Times poll.

NEVADA: Trump +13
GEORGIA: Trump +9
ARIZONA: Trump +6
PENNSYLVANIA: Trump +3
WISCONSIN: Trump +1

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 13, 2024, 11:58
Russia opened a new front invading from the north of Kharkiv now, occupying Ukrainian territory, while putin's useful idiots from Ukraine care about American politics...
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 13, 2024, 15:08
Russia opened a new front invading from the north of Kharkiv now, occupying Ukrainian territory, while putin's useful idiots from Ukraine care about American politics...

And that's the right thing to do. People should indeed be worried about the good numbers for Trump.

Not least because many of the current negative developments for Ukraine would not have taken place in the first place if the Trump supporters had released the funds for the Ukraine aid earlier.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on May 13, 2024, 15:38
When Trump threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine, he got impeached.

Trump was never impeached. Do you even know what that means?
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 13, 2024, 15:53
1. The topic is about the US elections.
2. Any criminal actions of the Russians are the result of the cowardly and pro-Russian policies of KGB agent Biden and US Democrats.

Biden - fuck you!
Democrats - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 13, 2024, 16:00
Russia opened a new front invading from the north of Kharkiv now, occupying Ukrainian territory, while putin's useful idiots from Ukraine care about American politics...

And that's the right thing to do. People should indeed be worried about the good numbers for Trump.

Not least because many of the current negative developments for Ukraine would not have taken place in the first place if the Trump supporters had released the funds for the Ukraine aid earlier.
1. Reread my posts in this topic again.
2. Help from US Democrats is such a minuscule, such an insignificant amount of weapons that have very little effect on the battlefield.
3. You missed the point. Republicans voted for Lend-Lease in 2022 and forced Biden to sign the law. Biden delivers zero guns on Lend-Lease. Moreover, Biden could have extended the Lend-Lease Act in 2023, but the bas.tard didn't. If Biden supplied arms through Lend-Lease, no congressional votes would need to be made.
All smart Ukrainians know this. If Biden had a desire to supply weapons to Ukraine, he would do it.
4. Even without Lend-Lease, Biden had about $6 billion at his disposal at the end of 2023 and beginning of 2024. Biden could spend this money however he wanted. But Biden chose the path of blaming the Republicans and Trump.

There is only one conclusion, Biden is the most rotten bas.tard on planet Earth. His place is in the electric chair.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 13, 2024, 16:02
The topic is about the US elections, so I prefer to write about elections. Moreover, the situation in Europe and throughout the world depends on the elections in the United States.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on May 14, 2024, 00:20
… you are blurring what really is happening at the moment… I hope that you are far from eastern parts of your country…
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 14, 2024, 08:43
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNiWMbkXsAI0yia?format=jpg&name=small)

The photo illustrates very well the fact that Biden is a bas.tard.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 14, 2024, 08:46
The idea that Crooked Joe Biden is tough on China is laughable.

⚠️ REMINDER:

— Biden said "we want to see China rise."

— Biden voted to give China "most favored nation" trade status.

— Biden let a Chinese spy balloon surveil the entire country, then tried to cover it up.

— Biden resumed funding for the World Health Organization — despite China's massive influence.

— Biden bought $1.3B in Chinese-made COVID tests (and distributed them to Americans).

— Biden let the Chinese Communist Party build secret spying facilities in nearby countries.

— Biden missed the deadline to declassify intel on the Wuhan lab and China’s coverup.

— Biden told a room of Democrat donors in June: "Don't worry about China."

https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1790220570904113285
______

+100

So Biden supports both Russian Na.zis and China.
I think that putin said the truth that Biden is the best president for Na.zi russia.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 14, 2024, 08:50
President Trump: “Crooked Joe’s action is one of the worst betrayals of an American ally in the history of our country. I support Israel’s right to win its war on terror.”

+100

Video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1790125852232982640
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Zero Talent on May 14, 2024, 11:02
I think that putin said the truth

Of course. That's what putin's useful idiots think they think.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 14, 2024, 14:29
I think that putin said the truth

Of course. That's what putin's useful idiots think they think.

Yes, it's so obvious that you have to ask yourself why someone who calls everything - really everything - Russian propaganda believes this one Putin statement of all things. Quite simply: he has fallen for the propaganda, like a blind mole.  ::)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on May 14, 2024, 20:53
When Trump threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine, he got impeached.

Trump was never impeached. Do you even know what that means?

Trump was impeached twice, he just wasn't convicted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 03:04
Joe Biden’s weakness has set the world on fire.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNkjD3mWcAA2ytV?format=jpg&name=small)

+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 04:32
Ukraine presses Biden to lift ban on using US weapons to strike russia

Kyiv watched as Russians massed on the border, but they weren’t allowed to use long-range missiles provided by Washington.

Ukrainian officials are making a new push to get the Biden administration to lift its ban on using U.S.-made weapons to strike inside Russia, saying the policy kept them from attacking Russian positions as they prepared for their major march toward Kharkiv.

A group of Ukrainian parliamentarians is in Washington this week to enlist congressional help on the issue, which they see as handcuffing the Ukrainian war effort as Kyiv looks to hit Russian military supply depots over the border.

Just this week, tens of thousands of Russian troops poured over the border in Ukraine’s northeast in an assault that Ukrainian intelligence officials had been anticipating for months. The Russians are smashing into overstretched, equipment-hungry Ukrainian units that are giving up ground as they regroup.

Ukrainian officials watched for weeks as the Russians massed near the Ukrainian border, unable to use U.S.-supplied weapons to conduct a preemptive strike due to Washington’s policy. The Biden administration, as a condition of sending the long-range weapons to Ukraine, said they could not be used to strike inside Russian territory.

“The main problem right now is the White House policy to limit our capability” to strike military targets inside Russia, David Arakhamia, chair of the ruling Servant of the People party in the Ukrainian parliament, said during a visit to Washington on Tuesday.

Russia is well aware of this limitation, and was able to mass at least 30,000 troops and equipment on the border without fear of being hit by long-range U.S.-supplied Army Tactical Missile Systems, which Ukraine has used to devastating effect on Russian troops inside Ukraine.

“We saw their military sitting one or two kilometers from the border inside Russia and there was nothing we could do about that,” Oleksandra Ustinova, the head of Ukraine’s special parliamentary commission on arms and munitions, said in a separate interview.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/14/ukraine-weapons-russia-00157970 (https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/14/ukraine-weapons-russia-00157970)
______

Biden trolls are lying when they say Republican policies are why the Russians are successful in occupying Ukraine. The truth is that Biden's criminal policies lead to the occupation of Ukraine and the murder of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.

Biden's place in the electric chair.

Biden is the best US president for russia and putin.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 04:57
The organizers of Eurovision 2024 fined the Ukrainian delegation for wearing T-shirts with the Free Azovstal Defenders print on air of the show.

___________
RISK FOR HEROES

Appearing in FREE AZOVSTAL DEFENDERS t-shirts was a very risky and difficult task. Any inscriptions and brands were prohibited, the guards checked all clothes and, if there was an inscription on it, they asked to remove it or they glued the inscriptions with black tape. But our difficulties began at the stage of creating a logo print on a t-shirt.

We called several printing houses, some of them did not work, and some of them refused to make a print. However, we were able to come to an agreement with one printing company after calling them five times and tearfully begging for help. Before entering the hall, our team put on t-shirts under their other t-shirts and sweaters and were able to go to the green room with them.

We knew that when Eurovision show the replays of the performances, they also show the delegation itself. Therefore, when the camera approached us, our team quickly changed and showed our appeal to the whole world. We took a lot of risks, but everything worked out.

I am glad that we managed to remind the world about our prisoners of war🙌🏼

https://www.instagram.com/p/C69aKxIN8la (https://www.instagram.com/p/C69aKxIN8la)
_______

Europarasites - fuck you!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on May 15, 2024, 10:17
Czech President calls Ukraine's hopes to regain occupied territories naive

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/15/7455934/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/15/7455934/index.amp)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on May 15, 2024, 10:18
Zelenskiy postpones his foreign travel, Russian infantry enters Ukraine border town
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-takes-up-positions-ukraine-town-vovchansk-kharkiv-region-local-police-2024-05-15/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-takes-up-positions-ukraine-town-vovchansk-kharkiv-region-local-police-2024-05-15/)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Big Toe on May 15, 2024, 10:52
When Trump threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine, he got impeached.

Trump was never impeached. Do you even know what that means?

Trump was impeached twice, he just wasn't convicted.

Ok, thanks, my bad. English is not my first language and I erroneoulsy thought that a person is only considered impeached, when the impeachment process has been sucessful.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 11:27
Czech President calls Ukraine's hopes to regain occupied territories naive

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/15/7455934/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/15/7455934/index.amp)
This is the fate that awaits putin’s friends:

Pro-Russia Slovakian leader Robert Fico SHOT and ‘fighting for life’ after assassination attempt.
 ;D ;D ;D

As far as I understand, 5 bullets were fired at him, three bullets successfully hit the target.

(https://i.ibb.co/bPyrP7K/IMG-20240129-143401-914.jpg)
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 11:29
(https://i.postimg.cc/wBHXLJyz/Screenshot-20240515-175829-Opera.jpg)

The seven guards were useless.
 ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 11:32
Ukraine. Elimination of the Russian Orc.

 ;D ;D ;D

A contender for the Darwin Award is a Russian orc who tried to shoot down an FPV drone with canisters filled with gasoline.

https://t.me/ukrbavovna/14797
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: trucic on May 15, 2024, 11:54
Czech President calls Ukraine's hopes to regain occupied territories naive

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/15/7455934/index.amp (https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/05/15/7455934/index.amp)
This is the fate that awaits putin’s friends:

Pro-Russia Slovakian leader Robert Fico SHOT and ‘fighting for life’ after assassination attempt.
 ;D ;D ;D

As far as I understand, 5 bullets were fired at him, three bullets successfully hit the target.

(https://i.ibb.co/bPyrP7K/IMG-20240129-143401-914.jpg)
… and you are fine with that, thinking it’s funny…?!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: RalfLiebhold on May 15, 2024, 13:17
Let's be clear.

As someone who has worked in war zones and disaster areas myself, it is unbearable for me to have a person on the forum who regularly has an orgasm when people die.

Here a HUMAN was shot in the head, thorax and abdomen with 5 shots. And this deviant stoker thing is having a field day.

I don't need to read this thread here, but unfortunately this deranged person is also active in other topics.

Please kick this person out of the forum. This has nothing to do with discussion or exchange of opinions.

I am simply disgusted.
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 14:20
… and you are fine with that, thinking it’s funny
+100
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 14:22
Here a HUMAN KGB agent was shot in the head, thorax and abdomen with 5 shots.
It's a lie! Only three bullets hit the target.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: stoker2014 on May 15, 2024, 14:24
I see here on the forum how Europarasites defend putin’s friends.

Trump! Crush the Europarasites!
Title: Re: This should settle some different opinions
Post by: Wilm on May 15, 2024, 17:06
I see here on the forum how Europarasites defend putin’s friends.

Trump! Crush the Europarasites!


You are sick!

You will certainly never understand that.

But you will feel it. The day will probably come this year, or next year at the latest.