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Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions  (Read 109930 times)

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Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« on: April 04, 2023, 15:28 »
+5
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.


Just_to_inform_people2

« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2023, 14:25 »
+6
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.


You can do better Pete :)

Such as:

Everyone that likes Trump is:
* a right fascist extremist red neck
* has an IQ of 60 or lower
* a racist at the core of the heart
* male chauvinist pig
* denies climate change
* only protect rich people and don't care about poor people
* is an egoist that wants to place borders just to protect their own way of living


Everyone that likes Biden is:
* an ignorant, naive and arrogant communist prick
* has an IQ of 60 or lower
* can't distinct cultural diffences amongst groups of people
* doesn't understand there are differences between men and women or other sexes
* climate hoaxer saying it's all caused by man kind doing
* wants to take all money from the rich and divide all amongst the poor
* wants to invite the whole world so everybody is poor equally

Or something like that :)

« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2023, 14:57 »
+5
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

Just_to_inform_people2

« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2023, 15:06 »
+3
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I do remember a certain Adolf that was in prison and then became chancellor later. But maybe they changed the constitution afterwards.

« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2023, 16:10 »
0
Are those who govern still the presidents?

« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2023, 16:35 »
+1
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

You made me curious about Germany. The right is not implicitly revoked.
The loss of the right to be elected happens when this right is explicitly revoked by the court, or the felon is incarcerated.

The following are ineligible for election:

a.) those disqualified pursuant to Article 6a(1) of the European Elections Act,
b.) those who, by order of a court, have been declared ineligible for election or incapable of holding public office; and:
c.) those who, without being German nationals, are Germans within the meaning of Article 116(1) of the Constitution and have acquired this status by renouncing German citizenship pursuant to the Nationality Act of 22 February 1995 (BGBl. IS.65). (Article 6b(3) of the European Elections Act).

and the Article 6 says:
 (6) The following persons shall not stand as candidates for the European Parliament:
 1) a person who has been divested of his or her active legal capacity with regard to the right to vote;
 2) a person who has been convicted of a crime by a court and is serving sentence in a penal institution;
 3) a person in active service in the Defence Forces.




Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2023, 16:44 »
+3
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I do remember a certain Adolf that was in prison and then became chancellor later. But maybe they changed the constitution afterwards.

Yes, and until someone woke me up (can I use that term?) Hitler began Mein Kampf while imprisoned following his failed coup in Munich in November 1923 and a trial in February 1924 for high treason, in which he received a sentence of five years. While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected. The point is, until I was well out of college, I was of the mistaken belief that he was just a politician who let power go to his head and got some distorted views. WRONG: he was always a bigot and racist.

As for the other part about left or right, and all the polarized viewpoints, yes,, someone would have to include all of that to be fair. I happened to not be of either side and don't follow a party line and don't vote according to pressure from the Union or associations or any groups that might have their own stake in the politics. I happen to look at records for individuals, when I can.

This will anger either the left or right and of course, the far and fringe of either of those. Because they want loyal, mindless followers, not open minded free thinkers. My lefty friends call me a right winger and my right wing friends think I'm too left.

One far right idiot started screaming at me "You're A Democrat"  He's brainless, (former friend now) and the typical person who learned all his debate skills from talk radio and Fox news. My far left friend posts Trump hate messages daily on FB. But we're still friends because he's otherwise an intelligent person. Oh yes, he listens to NPR all day long, getting his Socialist propaganda and all about how to save the planet programming.

I'm an organic gardener, no chemicals on my yard either. I feed birds and have flowers for "pollinators", including culturing milk weed for the Monarch butterflies. I don't hunt, I and not a gun collector, but I support the right of free citizens, who are verified and stable, to own firearms. I believe that a woman has a right to choose what she does with her own body, and politicians should be legislating that free choice. I'm a fiscal conservative and don't think Socialism, tax and spend or Big Brother is the answer to how a free society should function.

Anyway... you're right. Here's what's wrong with the US choices for President. There's no place to vote None of the Above find us someone suitable for the position.  ;D

Lennon (the Beatles version) did not say we should elect a businessman, that's a fake quote. What he did say was: "...that he was sick of "being *removed coarse language* around by men in suits sitting on their fat arses in the City."

« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2023, 05:44 »
+2
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I think most places you are presumed innocent until elected.

« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2023, 08:41 »
+1
They write that they want to give Trump 136 years in prison.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2023, 12:43 »
+1
They write that they want to give Trump 136 years in prison.

Only the Democrats!

There are some problems in that the statute of limitations has expired and the fraud if they is any, was perpetrated against his own company. It cost him more to pay the money as it was claimed than if he had reported it in other ways. This is no slam dunk conviction.

It's possible that the idea is to distract and cause people to see him as a criminal. Yet somehow, his fund raising has set new records, since the indictment.

I don't know, it's certainly a strange situation. The trial doesn't look to be starting until January? Lots of room for speculation and accusations, from both sides.  ;D

Just_to_inform_people2

« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2023, 13:16 »
+1
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I do remember a certain Adolf that was in prison and then became chancellor later. But maybe they changed the constitution afterwards.

Yes, and until someone woke me up (can I use that term?) Hitler began Mein Kampf while imprisoned following his failed coup in Munich in November 1923 and a trial in February 1924 for high treason, in which he received a sentence of five years. While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected. The point is, until I was well out of college, I was of the mistaken belief that he was just a politician who let power go to his head and got some distorted views. WRONG: he was always a bigot and racist.

As for the other part about left or right, and all the polarized viewpoints, yes,, someone would have to include all of that to be fair. I happened to not be of either side and don't follow a party line and don't vote according to pressure from the Union or associations or any groups that might have their own stake in the politics. I happen to look at records for individuals, when I can.

This will anger either the left or right and of course, the far and fringe of either of those. Because they want loyal, mindless followers, not open minded free thinkers. My lefty friends call me a right winger and my right wing friends think I'm too left.

One far right idiot started screaming at me "You're A Democrat"  He's brainless, (former friend now) and the typical person who learned all his debate skills from talk radio and Fox news. My far left friend posts Trump hate messages daily on FB. But we're still friends because he's otherwise an intelligent person. Oh yes, he listens to NPR all day long, getting his Socialist propaganda and all about how to save the planet programming.

I'm an organic gardener, no chemicals on my yard either. I feed birds and have flowers for "pollinators", including culturing milk weed for the Monarch butterflies. I don't hunt, I and not a gun collector, but I support the right of free citizens, who are verified and stable, to own firearms. I believe that a woman has a right to choose what she does with her own body, and politicians should be legislating that free choice. I'm a fiscal conservative and don't think Socialism, tax and spend or Big Brother is the answer to how a free society should function.

Anyway... you're right. Here's what's wrong with the US choices for President. There's no place to vote None of the Above find us someone suitable for the position.  ;D

Lennon (the Beatles version) did not say we should elect a businessman, that's a fake quote. What he did say was: "...that he was sick of "being *removed coarse language* around by men in suits sitting on their fat arses in the City."


I hear you. Some issue here regarding friends about thinking you are too right or too left.
The funny thing is though that when it comes to your left friends they all think alike on each subject as our my friends on the right. There must be some manuals around somewhere explaining how to think on each subject. Apparently you cannot think differently on multiple subjects if it deviates from the manual because then you are out or something :)

Must the brainwashing from both sides without people thinking for themselves.

« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2023, 13:36 »
+1
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I do remember a certain Adolf that was in prison and then became chancellor later. But maybe they changed the constitution afterwards.

True! But that was 90 years ago. And happened under the law at the time. The current Basic Law was created 16 years later.

« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2023, 13:50 »
0
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

I think most places you are presumed innocent until elected.
in the US you can still run for president when convicted & in prison (altho people who have served their terms are denied the vote in many states).Eugen Debs did so in 1920, - instead we got Warren Harding (of teapot Dome fame) who ranked 40 out of 43 as of 2017  https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall

« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2023, 13:51 »
+1
But okay, at least it seems to be possible to continue a political career even in Germany if you had a criminal record. Excerpt from the German Criminal Code:

45
Loss of the ability to hold office, eligibility and the right to vote

(1) Any person convicted of a crime and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of at least one year shall lose the capacity to hold public office and to obtain rights from public elections for a period of five years.

How that would play out with the Chancellor now, I don't know. But as a legal layman, I would say that this is also possible here. Unless, as Zero Talent also quotes, that a court prevents that.

Apparently not much has changed. With Hitler, there were also more than 5 years between the imprisonment and the election as chancellor.

« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2023, 17:35 »
0
But okay, at least it seems to be possible to continue a political career even in Germany if you had a criminal record. Excerpt from the German Criminal Code:

45
Loss of the ability to hold office, eligibility and the right to vote

(1) Any person convicted of a crime and sentenced to a term of imprisonment of at least one year shall lose the capacity to hold public office and to obtain rights from public elections for a period of five years.

How that would play out with the Chancellor now, I don't know. But as a legal layman, I would say that this is also possible here. Unless, as Zero Talent also quotes, that a court prevents that.

Apparently not much has changed. With Hitler, there were also more than 5 years between the imprisonment and the election as chancellor.

There is also the case of Dieter Althaus, who was Minister President in Thuringia, a German state, who was convicted of negiligent homicide for a skiing accident in Austria in 2009 and fined 33,000. He stayed in office and even ran for office again later the same year. His party, the conservative CDU, lost the election by a landslide, though, so it may not have been the smartest decision to run for office again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Althaus


Annie2022

« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2023, 18:15 »
+1
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.

Oh goodie. A political thread.  ;D

Annie2022

« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2023, 18:23 »
+6
What actually surprised me was the fact that you can become president in the U.S. despite having a criminal record.

Admittedly, I would have to study the German constitution thoroughly to be sure that this would not be possible here. I dare say it would not be possible here.

Same here.

In Australia, one cannot run for public office if convicted of a crime, or subject to be sentenced, guilty of treason, or bankrupt or insolvent, or has connections to a foreign power. (Kind of rules out Trump on many levels ;D)

Its interesting that so many commentators, who are not necessarily arguing that he didn't commit fraud, say that the charges are too insignificant to charge a former president. I always thought our leaders and lawmakers should be held to a higher standard than everyone else. What happened??
« Last Edit: April 06, 2023, 18:27 by Annie »

« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2023, 20:17 »
0
...While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected.

I have read widely on the rise of Nazism over many decades, so previous posts were no surprise. --
actually, Hitler was elected and came to power after the Reichstag fire which was blamed on a communist but later proved to be a nazi false flag operation
 

"In January 1933, Hindenburg reluctantly appointed Hitler as chancellor on the advice of Franz von Papen, a disgruntled former chancellor who believed the conservative bourgeois parties should ally with the * to keep the Communists out of power."
(a classic right wing powerplay --cf the Alien & Sedition acts from 1800 (anti-Jacobin 'communism' avant la lettre) and the Palmer raids (1919-20 - which put Debs in the prison ( from which he ran for president!) using the Espionage Act) 

among other miscarriages was when " unanimous Supreme Court upheld the Espionage Act in Schenck v. United States, when it ruled that the First Amendment did not protect pacifists who circulated antidraft literature from arrest under the act. "  https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-espionage-acts-constitutional-legacy The Espionage Act is still in force

"Justified on the false premise that the Communists were planning an uprising to overthrow the state, the Reichstag Fire Decree permitted the regime to arrest and incarcerate political opponents without specific charge, dissolve political organizations, and to suppress publications. It also gave the central government the authority to overrule state and local laws and overthrow state and local government"
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-reichstag-fire

Actually, while you & I disagree on many political topics, the only way I see to resolve them is over several evenings with bottles of Lagavullin (or local IPA if on a budget)


Annie2022

« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2023, 02:42 »
0
"Former President Donald Trump was charged by Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg with 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records "

One of those might be, who's going to be the Republican candidate in 2024?  ;D

ps I practice equal opportunity, calling out politicians and hypocrites who follow party lines instead of minds.

How's Biden doing, within his own party?

Democrats were asked if they wanted another four years of Biden. 61% said they would prefer a new president; 38% said they'd welcome back Biden.

Kind of getting the feeling that no one likes anything anymore? Except being divided and hating the other side.


You can do better Pete :)

Such as:

Everyone that likes Trump is:
* a right fascist extremist red neck
* has an IQ of 60 or lower
* a racist at the core of the heart
* male chauvinist pig
* denies climate change
* only protect rich people and don't care about poor people
* is an egoist that wants to place borders just to protect their own way of living


Everyone that likes Biden is:
* an ignorant, naive and arrogant communist prick
* has an IQ of 60 or lower
* can't distinct cultural diffences amongst groups of people
* doesn't understand there are differences between men and women or other sexes
* climate hoaxer saying it's all caused by man kind doing
* wants to take all money from the rich and divide all amongst the poor
* wants to invite the whole world so everybody is poor equally

Or something like that :)

You left out the 2 main issues: guns vs abortion.

If (wonder of wonders!) these two could ever be resolved, less people would cling so vehemently to their respective party, becoming more moderate and discerning, leaving the hatred and division that Pete mentioned above, to the minority extremists and hard left/right. Just a thought?

USA needs more independent (thinkers) voters, and to stop taking sides like they were at a football match. imho
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 02:45 by Annie »

« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2023, 03:10 »
+3
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2023, 07:08 »
0
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.

Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2023, 10:54 »
+1
...
the Reichstag fire which was blamed on a communist but later proved to be a nazi false flag operation...

Thats a popular misconception. It almost certainly wasnt the * or the Communists but a Dutch anarcho-syndicalist who tried setting fire to lots of buildings before. The * just pounced on it and blamed the communists.

This podcast does a good job giving an overview (about 20 minutes in for the fire):

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/298-the-*-total-power/id1537788786?i=1000594525754

I dont go along with some of the stuff on that podcast (anything about the UK tends to be very jingoistic) but the several episodes they do about the Nazis rise to power give a decent overview for anyone interested.

EDIT: LOL it's editing out n*zis from the URL, it goes where the star is
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 10:57 by Justanotherphotographer »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2023, 12:18 »
0
...While I'm no fan of all the Hitler history, he was appointed, in 1933, not elected.

Actually, while you & I disagree on many political topics, the only way I see to resolve them is over several evenings with bottles of Lagavullin (or local IPA if on a budget)

Probably not as much or as many as you might think. People on the left say I'm too far right and people on the right say I'm too far left. It's a matter of viewing point and perspective.  8)  Lagavullin is just right and fits my tastes. Ardbeg, Talisker or Highland Park.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2023, 12:47 »
0

You left out the 2 main issues: guns vs abortion.

If (wonder of wonders!) these two could ever be resolved, less people would cling so vehemently to their respective party, becoming more moderate and discerning, leaving the hatred and division that Pete mentioned above, to the minority extremists and hard left/right. Just a thought?

USA needs more independent (thinkers) voters, and to stop taking sides like they were at a football match. imho

Party politics has become a matter of religion. Following that kind of thinking, I'm condemned to languish Limbo, or be sentenced to be reformed in Purgatory.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 12:50 by Uncle Pete »

« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2023, 12:55 »
+9
It would be interesting to read those who support Trump, why, and how it can be supported at all.

How can they not support Trump, he wants to make America great again. The country is divided close to 50-50, how can one side be claiming to be smarter, better or more popular than the other? You should ask why those others who are antiamerican support socialism or the overthrow of their government.


Putin wants to make Russia great again. Erdogan wants to make Turkey great again. Farage and Johnson wanted to make the United Kingdom great again. Xi wants to make China great again. Meloni wants to make Italy great again (by banning the use of English words with heavy fines, for example). The Taliban want to make Afghanistan great again by, for example, denying women access to education (as it used to be). Kim Jong Un wants to make North Korea great again.

And history has actually warned us. As a German, I fervently hope and pray that I will not have to experience the times when someone should get the idea to make Germany great again! I hope people understand what I mean.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2023, 15:53 by Wilm »


 

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