"Wonderful Russians"





https://youtu.be/F2sfPZgERrU







And video
https://youtu.be/F2sfPZgERrU

You are going too far, Stoker. Genetics have nothing to do with it. It's the degenerate nationalistic propaganda and constant brainwashing, from kindergarten onwards, flourishing on a religious and cultural foundation.

It is true that some of people may be forced to show their adhesion to the "cause", especially when they are at work or school, for example.

But nobody forced a teenage girl to carry a Wagner bag in public.
Or to take selfies with a Wagner tank, or with the war criminal Prigozhin.

Other countries are not immune to this cultural-religious essence ready to embrace nationalistic propaganda.

The world simply changed at a much faster rate than a (probably minority) part of European and US citizens could digest.  And russia's military doctrine of hybrid warfare has been scientifically and systematically exploiting this for more than a decade.

These European an US citizens "left behind" are the ones who also caused Brexit and MAGA and the relaunch of fascism inside the EU and the US.  Because putin/russia simply tells them what they want to hear, and they have the (false) sense that they understand putin better than their own children.

We have several examples even in this forum, ready to prove this point.

It's the degenerate nationalistic propaganda and constant brainwashing, from kindergarten onwards, flourishing on a religious and cultural foundation.

...

Other countries are not immune to this cultural-religious essence ready to embrace nationalistic propaganda.

...

These European an US citizens "left behind" are the ones who also caused Brexit and MAGA and the relaunch of fascism inside the EU and the US.  Because putin/russia simply tells them what they want to hear, and they have the (false) sense that they understand putin better than their own children.

That pretty much sums it up.  I've met many Russians who are good people and don't support what their government does, but can't do much about it or they will be put in jail or worse.  Not all Russians are willing mass murderers!  That would be like saying everyone in the US was a Christo-fascist bigot based on the previous person in the White House.  Unfortunately, too many people are easily influenced by propaganda and get hyped up on nationalistic nonsense to do things they ordinarily would not.  I am not defending them, it is just a sad commentary on our species.

But the problem is indeed that many russians that live abroad, who are integrated, for instance here in Germany, speak German, have a job, work well..are amazing supporters of putin.

He seems to be their murderous version of Trump.

And unlike the Germans in the 1930s after the * took over all media, they have access to any information they want right on their mobile phone.

And yet they choose to believe the most outrageous stuff, that Ukraine is destroying their own country, klling their own children just to take pictures and stage videos...

How is this possible?

I am seeing what is Germanys cruel history being recreated in 2023 in a totally public way.

For those in russia, I don't know what centuries of being slaves does to you.

But those abroad? Why?

I am seeing what is Germanys cruel history being recreated in 2023 in a totally public way.

It is only recently that the world media began to talk about Russia and Russians. In fact, fascism has flourished in Russia since the days of Stalin and their revolution in 1917. And until 1917 the Russians were barbarians.

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 06, 2023, 06:58

It's the degenerate nationalistic propaganda and constant brainwashing, from kindergarten onwards, flourishing on a religious and cultural foundation.

...

Other countries are not immune to this cultural-religious essence ready to embrace nationalistic propaganda.

...

These European an US citizens "left behind" are the ones who also caused Brexit and MAGA and the relaunch of fascism inside the EU and the US.  Because putin/russia simply tells them what they want to hear, and they have the (false) sense that they understand putin better than their own children.

That pretty much sums it up.  I've met many Russians who are good people and don't support what their government does, but can't do much about it or they will be put in jail or worse.  Not all Russians are willing mass murderers!  That would be like saying everyone in the US was a Christo-fascist bigot based on the previous person in the White House.  Unfortunately, too many people are easily influenced by propaganda and get hyped up on nationalistic nonsense to do things they ordinarily would not.  I am not defending them, it is just a sad commentary on our species.

Look at the influence and damage that MAGA, Brexit or other very nationalistic propaganda in other countries can do in a few years to well established democracies, and stretch that out over generations. This is what most Russians and their ancestors had to encounter and this is what you have to keep in mind when judging them. Most Russians have a history of living as peasants, living under very oppressive regimes and corruption-driven governments that just tells them what to do, how to think, how to act, with very harsh measures taken against opposing voices and movements. Many historians trying to understand what's currently going on refer to that history, and point out that most Russians are very apathic and negative towards their leaders and governments, but at the same time, just go along because they don't know any better, the ones who know better still go along because there is no way to fight the system, they just try to get by for themselves.

Throw in the nostalgia some older generations feel for communism and the influence on the world Russia had back in those days and you get a better understanding why most Russians voice support for everything that Putin pulling of the last decade or so. It's business as usual for most of them, and a revival of the great Russia for others.

Small personal anecdote: I remember traveling Russia a 15 years ago or so, when the political situation was way more relaxed, and of all my travels I found Russia to be the most hostile, uninviting, unfriendly and distant towards tourists or foreigners. The only way to really connect with Russians was to start drinking with them (which I don't recommend by the way, it's a game you can't win) and start talking about hard-work-misery, how great things could have been but are not, and about unaccomplishments and never realized greatness.
These are of course personal and individual anecdotes, but I always thought it said a lot about how many Russians really feel.

Whatever the outcome of the invasion and war in Ukraine will be, it will not fix the issues mentioned above. But it is a reminder for the rest of the world, and for the ones who live in more democratic regions. Vote whatever you want, but don't vote too authoritarian, it's very hard to get rid of and will finally lead to all of the above.

The numbers in these images are mind boggling.

In 2023 millions of people don't have toilets, running water, warm water?

What kind of dictator is Putin?

Even the tyrants of the Middle East make sure people have running water. Unless it is an active war zone like in Yemen.

So why would those living abroad who truly know the difference still be attracted and of service to putin??

It is similar to asking why people love Trump or Erdogan, but putin is actively killing russians by the thousands and wants to enlist even more of their children.

How man of their sons have to die in a useless war putin cannot win?

I could write a lot of things in continuation of this post, a lot of sharp, tough, cruel but truthful thoughts. But I won't write it here. The truth often shocks people.
I'll write this.

"What kind of dictator is Putin?"

I am not completely sure that this putin even exists and that he is alive. On TV, we are mainly shown his doubles (copies), he has many such copies. When putin came to international meetings, he never eat and drink anything, because was afraid that his DNA would be analyzed (DNA analysis will immediately show that czar in Russia is not real.). When putin led the Russian empire in the 90s, his DNA was known, then he did not hide this information.
So, the putin we are now seeing is a collective putin, different people-actors who are similar to each other. And this collective Putin is the legitimate representative of the Russians, because Russians support him.
The question may arise, who then controls russia? What difference does it make who. It could be China, it could be the Dacha consumer cooperative "Ozero" and other Russian bandits and criminals, the Russian mafia. The main thing here is different, the Russians support their fascist regime.

Dacha consumer cooperative "Ozero"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozero

"In 2023 millions of people don't have toilets, running water, warm water?"

For Russians, this is normal. They don't need any of this. For them, the main thing is that the Russian empire expands its borders, kills as many people as possible.

""In 2023 millions of people don't have toilets, running water, warm water?"

For Russians, this is normal. They don't need any of this. For them, the main thing is that the Russian empire expands its borders, kills as many people as possible."

It makes no sense at all. For me. And why russians abroad would worship the man who is destroying their country.

Look at the influence and damage that MAGA, Brexit or other very nationalistic propaganda in other countries can do in a few years to well established democracies, and stretch that out over generations. This is what most Russians and their ancestors had to encounter and this is what you have to keep in mind when judging them. Most Russians have a history of living as peasants, living under very oppressive regimes and corruption-driven governments that just tells them what to do, how to think, how to act, with very harsh measures taken against opposing voices and movements. Many historians trying to understand what's currently going on refer to that history, and point out that most Russians are very apathic and negative towards their leaders and governments, but at the same time, just go along because they don't know any better, the ones who know better still go along because there is no way to fight the system, they just try to get by for themselves.

Throw in the nostalgia some older generations feel for communism and the influence on the world Russia had back in those days and you get a better understanding why most Russians voice support for everything that Putin pulling of the last decade or so. It's business as usual for most of them, and a revival of the great Russia for others.

This is a speech by a lawyer trying to justify a maniac and a serial killer. Maniacs and murderers should not be justified, but liquidated.

I don't want to read these sweeping and stereotypical assessments. They are wrong! They stir up hatred! More hatred. We need the opposite to avoid these senseless wars, which are based exactly on such stereotypical thinking.

At the beginning of the war, I tried to engage in discussions with Russians in social media. I also sent mass emails to many people from a list of Russian email addresses. I lost my email, as the provider flagged me as a spammer. After a short time, I figured out that discussions with Putin's supporters were pointless. They behaved like philosophical zombies...

So, then I joined the NAFO and interacted with Russians in a different manner.

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 07, 2023, 07:26

Quote from: cobalt on July 07, 2023, 02:47

It is similar to asking why people love Trump

For some reason I think that the majority does not vote for Trump, but for the Republican Party.

Not at all. The Republican Party IS trump's party. Those who still believe in traditional conservativism (instead of trump's national populism) are mocked and chastised as RINOs (Republicans In Name Only).
All Republicans must adhere to the cult of trump or else!

First time I'm reading this. In the same Congress, there are very few Republican supporters of Trump, only a few people.

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 07, 2023, 07:57

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 07, 2023, 07:26

Quote from: cobalt on July 07, 2023, 02:47

It is similar to asking why people love Trump

For some reason I think that the majority does not vote for Trump, but for the Republican Party.

Not at all. The Republican Party IS trump's party. Those who still believe in traditional conservativism (instead of trump's national populism) are mocked and chastised as RINOs (Republicans In Name Only).
All Republicans must adhere to the cult of trump or else!

First time I'm reading this. In the same Congress, there are very few Republican supporters of Trump, only a few people.

Sorry, but this is highly incorrect, Stoker! Today's Republican Party IS trump's party. With very few exceptions (e.g. Mitt Romney) virtually all elected "republicans" endorsed trump and trumpism.
They shouldn't even call themselves Republicans, anymore.

The GOP (Grand Old Party) is now nothing else but a Nationalist-Populist Party, as mentioned above.

Just look at the record amount of donation money Trump keeps getting, or how full his rallys are.

Today Trump is the republican party.

The normal republican seems to have disappeared, or they now vote democrat while holding their nose.

Also the closest competitor to Trump is de Santis who is an even more sinister version of Trump.

Maga is todays republican.

There are a few groups like the Lincoln Project trying to advocate for a normal, rational republican party, but the voters absolutely want Trump. He is the favorite nominee for the next election.