Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 132518 times)

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #650 on:** July 08, 2023, 05:57 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 02:07

I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.

Here's a recent poll, but any poll you find will show similar things:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/20/politics/cnn-poll-trump-indictment-republicans-2024/index.html

and here's some historical data:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx

Trump had a 90% percent approval rating from Republicans for a long time, still viewed very favourably. Seems like a lot of the ones who lost "faith" have done so because he wasn’t extreme enough and are either moving to DeSantis (even more of a far right nut job) or think Trump has murdered people by pushing the satanic vaccine. So some realised Trump is a grifter and want a true believer.

Worth noting these people haven’t sprung up out of no where. Republicans have been the same way for a long time. Lib brain led people to believe the “fever will break” and they would snap out of it. How’s that working out?

Zero Talent · « **Reply #651 on:** July 08, 2023, 07:06 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 02:07

I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.

I will repeat: you have to study how the US election system works.
In the US, what the majority wants doesn't matter as much as in a normal democracy.

The majority of the voters were against trump, and yet he became president in 2016, despite losing the popular vote.
He was very close to victory in 2020, without winning the popular vote.
The majority of the population IS against trump today, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have a solid chance to become president again.

cobalt · « **Reply #652 on:** July 08, 2023, 07:56 »

The US system is bizarre and not really democratic. It should be one human, one vote.

That empty stretches of land have a higher value than millions of people is crazy.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #653 on:** July 08, 2023, 08:13 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 08, 2023, 07:56

The US system is crazy and not really democratic. It should be one human, one vote.

That empty stretches of land have a higher value than millions of people is crazy.

Is not just the land.

The "winner takes all" principle led to the widespread gerrymandering anomaly.

Those in power can stay in power by carving the election districts in a favorable way: where they lose, they lose 100%, and where they win, they barely win 51%-49%. This way, a party losing the popular vote, can send more representatives to Congress.

This can be understood with a tennis analogy: one can win a tennis match, despite losing more games.
Something like winning 3 sets to 2, with the game the scores of 0-6, 0-6, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4 => the match winner won 18 games, while the loser won 24 games.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

stoker2014 · « **Reply #654 on:** July 08, 2023, 10:17 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on July 08, 2023, 05:57

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 02:07

I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.

Here's a recent poll, but any poll you find will show similar things:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/20/politics/cnn-poll-trump-indictment-republicans-2024/index.html

Here I see the main answer to my question, Trump does not have serious support in the US.

"Among all Americans, 59% say that Trump ought to end his campaign now that he’s facing federal charges, with another 11% saying he should do so if convicted on these charges."

59%+11%=70%.
Total 60-70% of Americans are against Trump.

Where can I read what kind of support Trump has among congressmen in the Republican Party?

In russia, on the contrary, there are more than 70% of Russians support putin.

Quote from: cobalt on July 08, 2023, 03:47

Just look at the record amount of donation money Trump keeps getting, or how full his rallys are.
Today Trump is the republican party.

I am sure that the Russians transfer money there too.

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 08, 2023, 07:06

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 02:07

I would like to read analytics on this issue, as well as look at the results of social surveys among US citizens to see the real percentage of support for Trump.

I will repeat: you have to study how the US election system works.
In the US, what the majority wants doesn't matter as much as in a normal democracy.

The majority of the voters was against trump, and yet he became president in 2016, despite losing the popular vote.
He was very close to victory in 2020, without wining the popular vote.
The majority of the population IS against trump today, but it doesn't mean he doesn't have a solid chance to become president again.

I am aware of the problems in the US electoral system, but I am not a US citizen, so I cannot condemn or approve of this system. I am sure that when the vast majority of citizens are against Trump, then he will not win elections under any electoral system.
In 2016, Russian hackers and trolls helped Trump win a lot. It also played against Hilary that she was a woman, not a man.

cobalt · « **Reply #655 on:** July 08, 2023, 10:38 »

I agree that Trump is a puppet by a foreign enemy.

But of those that vote republican, he has the majority.

That does not mean he has the popular vote, far from it.

Also wouldn't be surprised if foreign entities invested heavily in analysing the weaknesses of the US election system and then maybe even pooling resources in their social media attacks to rise up politicians they pay.

The USA has interfered in many dictatorships, their populations are rising up because they see freedom elsewhere.

So for them to strike back at the heart of the US and get a puppet elected is true triumph.

It is also the way they run their "colonies". Fake elections to pretend popular support for their chosen pet ruler.

The free world has to become much wiser about the threat invading their social media feeds, coming into their homes and interacting with their children.

There is a huge information war targeting the US and other countries to weaken democracies.

So tyrants can keep telling their people - see...democracy is just chaos and violence...it does not work.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #656 on:** July 08, 2023, 11:01 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 08, 2023, 08:13

Quote from: cobalt on July 08, 2023, 07:56
The US system is crazy and not really democratic. It should be one human, one vote.

That empty stretches of land have a higher value than millions of people is crazy.
Is not just the land.

The "winner takes all" principle led to the widespread gerrymandering anomaly.

Those in power can stay in power by carving the election districts in a favorable way: where they lose, they lose 100%, and where they win, they barely win 51%-49%. This way, a party losing the popular vote, can send more representatives in congress.

This can be understood with a tennis analogy: one can win a tennis match, despite losing more games.
Something like winnig 3 sets to 2, with the game the scores of 0-6, 0-6, 6-4, 6-4, 6-4 => the match winner won 18 games, while the loser won 24 games.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

Even though there might be a small majority winning you still have a completely divided country. If it was not Trump there will be somebody else. People are getting divided more and more and not just in the US. Europe the same. All parties spreading hate against each other.
More people on this world, more political envy, more scarce resources, more war. Things will get worse before they get better (if that latter will even happen some day). So, thinking of yourself is not a bad idea from a survival point of view. Can't say that the democrats are spreading love in the world. They think just the same. America first. But I can't blame them. Everybody does it and will do so increasingly. I pity my children that will not have the same upgrowing, save young adult life which I had (apart from personal dramas). Migration will also never stop. Not in the US and not in Europe. Everybody wants a better life but in the end everybody will have a worse life. Something like microstockers. It looked all great and now you get peanuts. No future. To many people, to little resources. But it will take some time. Enjoy the good life while it lasts

Zero Talent · « **Reply #657 on:** July 08, 2023, 11:58 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 10:17

Where can I read what kind of support Trump has among congressmen in the Republican Party?

Here is the list of elected officials who endorsed trump, during the last elections: count them and you will see that it's virtually all the GoP members of the congress.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign_political_endorsements

... and of course, if a VAST majority of the voters are rejecting trump, he can't win. But, as mentioned above he can win despite not having a majority, and even despite not having a plurality of the voters.

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #658 on:** July 08, 2023, 13:23 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 07, 2023, 09:59

... and here is the percentage of the population using improved water supplies in 2022 in Europe:

hi zero talent i am kind of curious to know where did you find this graphic? is it from Unicef too? Can you post the link?
thanks in advance!

stoker2014 · « **Reply #659 on:** July 08, 2023, 13:27 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 08, 2023, 11:58

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 10:17

Where can I read what kind of support Trump has among congressmen in the Republican Party?

Here is the list of elected officials who endorsed trump, during the last elections: count them and you will see that it's virtually all the GoP members of the congress.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign_political_endorsements

It's not quite right. Supporting the elections is one thing, the Republicans are obliged to do it. But to support or not to support Trump's policies and vote for something in Congress is completely different. As far as I know, Trump has very few supporters in Congress who are ready to vote for any nonsense.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #660 on:** July 08, 2023, 14:15 »

Quote from: Evaristo tenscadisto on July 08, 2023, 13:23

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 07, 2023, 09:59
... and here is the percentage of the population using improved water supplies in 2022 in Europe:

hi zero talent i am kind of curious to know where did you find this graphic? is it from Unicef too? Can you post the link?
thanks in advance!

You can download the file from the UNiCEF website and play with it in excel (I filtered it for Europe only). There are two tabs.

https://data.unicef.org/topic/water-and-sanitation/sanitation/#data

Annie2022 · « **Reply #661 on:** July 08, 2023, 15:21 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 08, 2023, 10:17

I am aware of the problems in the US electoral system, but I am not a US citizen, so I cannot condemn or approve of this system. I am sure that when the vast majority of citizens are against Trump, then he will not win elections under any electoral system.
In 2016, Russian hackers and trolls helped Trump win a lot. It also played against Hilary that she was a woman, not a man.

Back in 2008 when Obama won, it shocked the Republican party. Voter eligible turnout was at its highest at that time at 62.5% (see below - source Wiki) and pollsters and analysts were saying that if everyone in America voted, the Democrats will always win.

So thats when the Republican party started 'Redmapping'.

REDMAP (short for Redistricting Majority Project) is a project of the Republican State Leadership Committee of the United States to increase Republican control of congressional seats as well as state legislatures, largely through determination of electoral district boundaries. The project has made effective use of partisan gerrymandering, by relying on previously unavailable mapping software such as Maptitude to improve the precision with which district lines are strategically drawn.[1] The strategy was focused on swing blue states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, North Carolina, and Wisconsin where there was a Democratic majority but which they could swing towards Republican with appropriate redistricting. The project was launched in 2010 and estimated to have cost the Republican party around US$30 million - source Wiki.

Refer also:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2021/nov/12/gerrymander-redistricting-map-republicans-democrats-visual

See how they even draw around houses and streets to place voters into certain districts. Refer attachment below.

This shocked the Obama administration when they won again in 2012, but they couldn't do much because of the republican congress they inherited.

In 2020 there was another large eligible voter turnout, 66.9%, and Biden won. But this may not happen this time, with Biden not being so popular this time.

I am aware, Stoker, that you keep saying that congress will not support Trump, but I haven't seen any stats for that - do you have some? He has over 50% of the Republican voter support from stats that I have seen, and a Republican congress will support a Republican president over a Democrat one.

Annie2022 · « **Reply #662 on:** July 08, 2023, 15:54 »

There are 2 flaws in the American voting system that can lead to an unfair and undemocratic process. 1, is that not everyone votes, and 2, when they register to vote they have to register as a Democrat, Republican or Independant.

For example, here in Australia, voting is compulsory so you get a much more realistic and democratic voter representation, but I am guessing that in the USA, that may be against their first amendment. Not sure.

And with the second one, registering upfront as how you intend to vote is unheard of in many countries and can lead to manipulation such as the Redmap gerrymandering outlined above.

Annie2022 · « **Reply #663 on:** July 08, 2023, 17:54 »

Quote from: cobalt on July 06, 2023, 17:39

But the problem is indeed that many russians that live abroad, who are integrated, for instance here in Germany, speak German, have a job, work well..are amazing supporters of putin.

He seems to be their murderous version of Trump.

And unlike the Germans in the 1930s after the * took over all media, they have access to any information they want right on their mobile phone.

And yet they choose to believe the most outrageous stuff, that Ukraine is destroying their own country, klling their own children just to take pictures and stage videos...

How is this possible?

I am seeing what is Germanys cruel history being recreated in 2023 in a totally public way.

For those in russia, I don't know what centuries of being slaves does to you.

But those abroad? Why?

I used to think that there was some big bully school somewhere where all these trolls, bullies, and dictators went to because their behaviour had all the same pattern. But I have since found out that their 'insanity' itself makes them very predictable.

People who are living in hardship or fear follow them because they are looking for strong leadership and mistakenly believe that their intimidating behaviour is one of strength, but they are full of fear, deep seated anger, and hatred themselves. They were usually brought up by a likewise intimidating parent or in an environment that made them that way. They are so out of touch with reality that the only pleasure they can derive is by being 'better than you".

Watch 'Putin and the Presidents' documentary to see how Putin has been playing this bluff game with the USA. "From FRONTLINE filmmaker Michael Kirk and his award-winning team, Putin and the Presidents traces how, prior to launching the war on Ukraine, Putin tested the waters by provoking and defying American presidents for 20 years — cyberattacking Estonia, invading Georgia, seizing Crimea, and interfering in a U.S. presidential election."

I have one troll on me at the moment. He follows everything I do, he hacks accounts, or creates fake ones, and messages me on platforms that my work is uploaded to that he can reach me. He's always at his worse when its Friday or Saturday night in the USA - I am guessing that is when he hits the bottle. His actions are all geared to saying to me, 'I know everything you do, I know how to manipulate you into closing your accounts, find minor faults with everything you do, destroy any pleasure in what you do, and therefore I AM BETTER THAN YOU'.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #664 on:** July 09, 2023, 02:19 »

Quote from: Annie on July 08, 2023, 15:21

I am aware, Stoker, that you keep saying that congress will not support Trump, but I haven't seen any stats for that - do you have some?

I know that there are Republicans and there are Trumpists (the Trumpist wing). And it's not the same.
The media called people in Congress who are Trump fans, and there were very few of them, but I can’t find their names now.
According to American law, acts passed by Congress must be signed by the president. When an American leader objects to a particular law, he can veto it. If after that the bill is again supported by two-thirds of the members of both houses of Congress, the veto is considered overridden and it enters into force.
There were similar cases during the time of Trump and in relation to Ukraine. Congress made decisions in favor of Ukraine by a majority vote, and Trump was forced to sign them or this was done without his consent. The policy in the USA is built on this, even if putin's agent comes to power, he is not able to make any catastrophic consequences.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #665 on:** July 09, 2023, 02:26 »

I understand that people who live in the US or who live in countries that are members of NATO are very fond of Democrats and do not support Republicans. But, I don't like the policy of the Democrats.
Yes, I don't like Trump, because he talks nonsense and everything looks like he is for russia and for putin.
But, I also don't like Bill Clinton, who took weapons from Ukraine, I don't like Obama, who allowed the Russians to occupy Crimea and the eastern region. I don't like Biden, who did nothing to prevent the Russians from starting a full-scale war against Ukraine. Biden slows down the transfer of long-range aircraft and missiles to Ukraine.
The policy of the Democrats is very bad, people are massively suffering and dying.

The Budapest Memorandum was signed by the Democrats and the Democrats refused to comply with it. This greatly undermined the credibility of the United States around the world and led to numerous deaths of people and the environment in Ukraine.

Unlike Democrats, Republicans in Congress are almost all in favor of giving Ukraine as many weapons as possible.

__________
It has already reached the point that the Bill Clinton asks to be excused for his democratic policy. And who needs his apologies in Ukraine?

"The former US president apologizes to Ukrainians
He regrets that he persuaded Kyiv to give up nuclear weapons. Former US President Bill Clinton expressed regret for his role in the disarmament of Ukraine. During the interview, Clinton admitted that russia would not have invaded Ukraine if the Ukraine had nuclear deterrents. The former president of the United States emphasized that he felt a personal interest, because he forced the Ukrainian authorities to agree to give up nuclear weapons. Instead, in Kyiv they were afraid to do it, because they considered nuclear weapons the only thing that protected them from expansionist russia."

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #666 on:** July 09, 2023, 04:19 »

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/15/more-than-four-in-ten-republicans-now-say-the-us-is-providing-too-much-aid-to-ukraine/

"Currently, 44% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the U.S. is giving too much aid to Ukraine, up modestly since January (40%) and the highest level since shortly after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year.

Just 14% of Democrats and Democratic leaners view the current level of U.S. aid as excessive, little changed in recent months."

stoker2014 · « **Reply #667 on:** July 09, 2023, 05:22 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on July 09, 2023, 04:19

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/15/more-than-four-in-ten-republicans-now-say-the-us-is-providing-too-much-aid-to-ukraine/

"Currently, 44% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the U.S. is giving too much aid to Ukraine, up modestly since January (40%) and the highest level since shortly after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year.

Just 14% of Democrats and Democratic leaners view the current level of U.S. aid as excessive, little changed in recent months."

100-44=56.
As a result, about 60% of supporters of the republicans for more military assistance to Ukraine.
But I was not writing about US citizens, I was writing about congressmen of the Republican Party. It is they who make the decision.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #668 on:** July 09, 2023, 09:28 »

Stoker, here is a relevant example:

The Senate voted 86-11 to pass a $40 billion Ukraine aid bill. The Senate also passed a $1.7 trillion government funding bill that included Ukraine aid. The Senate voted 68-29 for the funding package....
All of the "no" votes came from Republicans.

House of Representatives voted 368-57 to pass a roughly $40 billion bill to deliver aid to Ukraine...
All 57 votes in opposition were from Republicans.

This will become much worse if trump becomes president again, since he is one of the biggest putin apologists.

Listen to me: the biggest threat for Ukraine, excluding putin, comes from the growing "Ukraine fatigue" inside the GoP.
As I said before, today's GoP is a far cry from what it used to be.

On the other hand, I agree with you that Obama made a big strategic mistake trying to appease putin by closing his eyes on the annexation of Crimea.

cobalt · « **Reply #669 on:** July 09, 2023, 10:24 »

If Trump becomes President again he will hand over Ukraine wrapped in a red ribbon to Putin and personally have Zelensky trapped and killed by the CIA thugs he employs.

He will also pull the USA out of Nato and encourage putin to march first into the Baltic states and then into Poland.

He is a complete traitor and will do anything for money.

The way trump grovels in front of putin is just pitiful.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #670 on:** July 09, 2023, 10:41 »

Quote from: Annie on July 08, 2023, 17:54

I have one troll on me at the moment. He follows everything I do, he hacks accounts, or creates fake ones, and messages me on platforms that my work is uploaded to that he can reach me. He's always at his worse when its Friday or Saturday night in the USA - I am guessing that is when he hits the bottle. His actions are all geared to saying to me, 'I know everything you do, I know how to manipulate you into closing your accounts, find minor faults with everything you do, destroy any pleasure in what you do, and therefore I AM BETTER THAN YOU'.

That is terrible Annie.

Can't the stock agencies or the police help expose and get this person? This is criminal and should not be gone by.

Good luck with this. I hope the person gets caught and you get left alone.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #671 on:** July 09, 2023, 11:17 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 09, 2023, 09:28

Stoker, here is a relevant example:

The Senate voted 86-11 to pass a $40 billion Ukraine aid bill. The Senate also passed a $1.7 trillion government funding bill that included Ukraine aid. The Senate voted 68-29 for the funding package....
All of the "no" votes came from Republicans.

House of Representatives voted 368-57 to pass a roughly $40 billion bill to deliver aid to Ukraine...
All 57 votes in opposition were from Republicans.

This will become much worse if trump becomes president again, since he is one of the biggest putin apologists.

Listen to me: the biggest threat for Ukraine, excluding putin, comes from the growing "Ukraine fatigue" inside the GoP.
As I said before, today's GoP is a far cry from what it used to be.

On the other hand, I agree with you that Obama made a big strategic mistake trying to appease putin by closing his eyes on the annexation of Crimea.

You didn't fully understand me. I am anti-Trump.
Yes, there are votes against from the Republicans, but as you can see for yourself, there are not many at all. This is most likely the Trump wing.
Understand that money is not everything in this world. What to do with money on the battlefield? For the rapid and massive elimination of Russians, aviation and long-range missiles are needed. It is also necessary that Ukraine is not prohibited from firing rockets at the Crimea, the Crimean bridge and at the territory of Russia. So, it is the Democrats who do not give Ukraine what is now needed on the battlefield. I know that the Republicans in the majority put pressure on the Democrats and demand to give more and more weapons to Ukraine. Not everything is decided by Trump.
It is too bad that the Republicans have not found anyone else and are constantly nominating Trump. But obviously their electorate for some reason only votes well for Trump. I have no illusions about Trump.

Just about, Bill Clinton took weapons from Ukraine, Obama closed his eyes, and Biden did not introduce normal sanctions in time, and now, as for me, sanctions against Russia are not enough. That is the policy of the Democrats. And I already wrote about the Budapest memorandum, which is generally bullying from the Democrats.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #672 on:** July 09, 2023, 11:40 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 09, 2023, 11:17

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 09, 2023, 09:28
Stoker, here is a relevant example:

The Senate voted 86-11 to pass a $40 billion Ukraine aid bill. The Senate also passed a $1.7 trillion government funding bill that included Ukraine aid. The Senate voted 68-29 for the funding package....
All of the "no" votes came from Republicans.

House of Representatives voted 368-57 to pass a roughly $40 billion bill to deliver aid to Ukraine...
All 57 votes in opposition were from Republicans.

This will become much worse if trump becomes president again, since he is one of the biggest putin apologists.

Listen to me: the biggest threat for Ukraine, excluding putin, comes from the growing "Ukraine fatigue" inside the GoP.
As I said before, today's GoP is a far cry from what it used to be.

On the other hand, I agree with you that Obama made a big strategic mistake trying to appease putin by closing his eyes on the annexation of Crimea.
You didn't fully understand me. I am anti-Trump.
Yes, there are votes against from the Republicans, but as you can see for yourself, there are not many at all. This is most likely the Trump wing.
Understand that money is not everything in this world. What to do with money on the battlefield? For the rapid and massive elimination of Russians, aviation and long-range missiles are needed. It is also necessary that Ukraine is not prohibited from firing rockets at the Crimea, the Crimean bridge and at the territory of Russia. So, it is the Democrats who do not give Ukraine what is now needed on the battlefield. I know that the Republicans in the majority put pressure on the Democrats and demand to give more and more weapons to Ukraine. Not everything is decided by Trump.
It is too bad that the Republicans have not found anyone else and are constantly nominating Trump. But obviously their electorate for some reason only votes well for Trump. I have no illusions about Trump.

Just about, Bill Clinton took weapons from Ukraine, Obama closed his eyes, and Biden did not introduce normal sanctions in time, and now, as for me, sanctions against Russia are not enough. That is the policy of the Democrats. And I already wrote about the Budapest memorandum, which is generally bullying from the Democrats.

I agree that the support from the Biden administration could have been a bit less cautious. NATO could have implemented a no-fly zone above Ukraine, from day zero, similar to what has been done in former Yugoslavia.
The sanctions against putin's terror can be stricter, indeed.

But as you can see the Democrats voted unanimously to support Ukraine while in the GOP, for now, there is a non-negligible pro-trump faction of putin apologists, very vocal against any forms of aid for Ukraine. Right now, the Democrats are your winning card, not the GoP.

As we have seen during the previous 2 presidential elections, virtually all the GoP will openly endorse trump, as soon as he will become the party nominee.
Moreover, they will have to listen to what their voters are asking them to do (see the polls mentioned above).

When this will happen, you will kiss goodbye to all GoP (and implicitly, US) support for Ukraine.

PS (about presidential candidates):
The old school has more adherents in the 2024 field, including Nikki Haley, Mike Pence, and Tim Scott, who support sending Ukraine military equipment and weapons but not troops. This aligns with President Biden’s strategy, though they maintain that Mr. Biden is executing it wrong.

But the anti-interventionist wing is dominant in terms of influence, with two members, Donald J. Trump and Ron DeSantis, far outpolling everybody else.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #673 on:** July 09, 2023, 12:13 »

Is this a good time to bring up Volhynia? There was a commemoration after all last week (the massive slaughter of Polish and Jewish people by Ukrainian nationalists).

https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/polish-demand-for-recognition-of-wwii-massacres-sparks-row-with-ukraine

I bring this up because it's strange that the leaders of that massacre (like Stepan Bandera), are still being seen as heroes today in Ukraine, even increasingly the last few months. They should know better by now.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/01/12/stepan-bandera-the-ukrainian-anti-hero-glorified-following-the-russian-invasion_6011401_4.html)

Sweet people those Ukranians. But at least they have their beloved neo-nazi Azov commanders back:
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/07/09/europe/azovstal-leaders-return-ukraine-intl-hnk/index.html

You can try to dress a wolf in sheep's clothing but people will notice anyway:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/06/03/ykgh-j03.html

And sure you can start that this was a long time ago but wasn't it Zelensky lately trying to get the world to acknowledge the Holodomor as genoicide? Rightfully so, Stalin was one of the most vicuous dictators ever. But that was even way before WWII. So why does Zelensky get mad when something is asked from them in return? It's not that they have had a clean past.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #674 on:** July 09, 2023, 12:17 »

... I forgot about another GoP candidate, Vivek Ramaswamy who is parroting putin's propaganda

Here is his latest tweet:

@JoeBiden needs to man up to his bully-friend Zelensky & clearly state that we are dead-set opposed to Ukrainian admission to NATO. This should be a hard red line. It’s shameful that even Republicans like @LindseyGrahamSC are now pushing for it. Stop marching us to the brink of nuclear war. For all the hand-wringing about the 1994 Budapest Memorandum (on which the U.S. has more than fulfilled its commitments), the neocon-Democrat establishment is shockingly silent on James Baker’s famous 1990 “Not-One-Inch” commitment to Gorbachev that NATO would never extend east of Germany. NATO was created to deter conflict with the USSR, yet NATO has expanded most rapidly *after* the fall of the USSR & is now *worsening* the risk of nuclear war with Russia itself. This is sheer lunacy. As President I’ll refuse to be bullied by an anti-democratic comedian-turned-leader & it’s truly mystifying to me that the rest of the West is eating out of this Pied Piper’s hand every day.

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Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 132518 times)

Justanotherphotographer

Zero Talent

cobalt

Zero Talent

stoker2014

cobalt

Just_to_inform_people2

Zero Talent

Evaristo tenscadisto

stoker2014

Zero Talent

Annie2022

Annie2022

Annie2022

stoker2014

stoker2014

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