Quote from: stoker2014 on July 11, 2023, 13:08

Quote from: Wilm on July 11, 2023, 03:15

It is also possible that I (and you, I suppose) misinterpreted the statement in the graph you posted. I had interpreted "personnel losses" as "dead". Obviously, dead + wounded are meant. Then the numbers in your graphic would fit.

In the case of the Russians, it doesn't matter. 
Wounded Russians become killed very quickly because they are not given medical assistance. Also, all these Russian losses are calculated by the method of least numbers. In fact, more Russian soldiers were eliminated.

The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the term liquidated in their reports.

Let's be clear at this point.

I sincerely hope that Ukraine wins the war.

You may not like the Russians, but I am extremely disgusted how you celebrate the death of people, fathers, sons, especially since it can be assumed that many Russian soldiers went to war not entirely voluntarily.

I myself worked as a doctor for over a year in a terrible civil war zone in Asia. When people's intestines hang out of their stomachs or both legs are only bleeding stumps, the suffering is the same for all people and for their families. There is nothing to celebrate for either side.

Leave your computer keyboard and come to the real world.

This is not a * video game here.

Most Russians fight voluntarily and for money. They are all orcs and zombies, all rashists. There are no people there. So, if these orcs come to your house and kill your family, I would like to see how you will feel sorry for these killers later.
All these Russians have a choice, Ukraine offers them to surrender and gives them all security guarantees in accordance with the Geneva conventions. I posted a video of the assault on the Armed Forces of Ukraine in this thread, Ukrainian soldiers always offer the Russians to surrender. But, the Russians do not give up and continue to commit crimes against humanity. There are many ways for Russians to surrender, they are all handled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. But, very few Russians surrender, especially voluntarily.
People always have a choice and Russians too. If a Russian refuses to go to kill people in Ukraine, he is unlikely to even go to jail in Russia. And even if they put them in jail, what is prison compared to the crimes they commit every day.
You Germans really like Russians, it's noticeable.

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 03:06

Drive the Russians out of the EU, otherwise Putin will send troops into your countries to protect these Russians. It was with this narrative that he attacked Ukraine.

Send in the settlers, claim their minority rights are being infringed, move in to "protect" them, bring in more settlers...then hold a fake vote claiming the people "voluntarily" joined the russian empire.

...now...where else have I heard that narrative before...settlers being used to push ethnic cleansing and drive the local population out...

Maybe you heard with in Albanians in Serbia case.

And then comes NATO, blatantly attacks Serbia , redraws the borders and recognize Kosovo as an independent country in same exact scenario you just described.

Maybe you heard with in Albanians in Serbia case.

And then comes NATO, blatantly attacks Serbia , redraws the borders and recognize Kosovo as an independent country in same exact scenario you just described.

For crying out loud, stop lying, stop drawing false analogies and stop parroting Russian lies!!!

And I am not a big fan of Kosovo's statehood myself.

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 03:06

Drive the Russians out of the EU, otherwise Putin will send troops into your countries to protect these Russians. It was with this narrative that he attacked Ukraine.

Send in the settlers, claim their minority rights are being infringed, move in to "protect" them, bring in more settlers...then hold a fake vote claiming the people "voluntarily" joined the russian empire.

...now...where else have I heard that narrative before...settlers being used to push ethnic cleansing and drive the local population out...

+100
It was according to this scenario that the Russians occupied the Crimea, Donbass, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson regions in Ukraine.

And you just accused 80+% of the world population that wont recognise Kosovo including NATO members for spreading russian lies:

You seem to have a big problem with reading with understanding and drawing analogies.

And now, check how many countries recognize Crimea and Donbas as part of Russia. Spoiler alert: only a couple of clown states. You have just scored an own goal.

Quote from: Lizard on July 12, 2023, 07:49

And you just accused 80+% of the world population that wont recognise Kosovo including NATO members for spreading russian lies:

You seem to have a big problem with reading with understanding and drawing analogies.

And now, check how many countries recognize Crimea and Donbas as part of Russia. Spoiler alert: only a couple of clown states.

You have a problem with lacking knowledge, ignorance and hypocrisy and tidy bit of brainwashing. 

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 12, 2023, 07:00

From Kasparov's speech at the NATO Public Forum. A Russian who wishes russia's deafeat.
Smart words of a smart man.

I will only clarify that Kasparov is not Russian by nationality. He is Armenian and Jewish.

The ethnicity is irrelevant
He was russian by nationality and citizenship.

By his own words:
"Although I'm half-Armenian, half-Jewish, I consider myself Russian because Russian is my native tongue, and I grew up with Russian culture."
He was also a presidential candidate in russia and he considers russia his homeland, although he now got the Croatian citizenship to escape from putin's persecution.

Remember that Stalin was a Georgian ethnic. Remember that there are many russian citizens or russian nationals of non-russian ethnicity fighting for putin in Ukraine.

The ethnicity is irrelevant. It's not a matter of genes, it's a matter of culture.
Remember that Zelensky himself is Jewish.

I wasn't thinking of an area in Europe. I am Christian Palestinian and you can watch the"settlers" stealing our homes and our land every day live on tv.

It is a slower process, they keep pushing us out slowly over years, but the result is the same. People from New York "settling in their homeland" kicking out the native population and claiming 14 million don't even exist...

But let us focus on Ukraine. They deserve to be free and should get into NATO quickly. They are paying the blood price. They are defending all of free Europe with their bravery.

I wasn't thinking of an area in Europe. I am Christian Palestinian and you can watch the"settlers" stealing our homes and our land every day live on tv.

It is a slower process, they keep pushing us out slowly over years, but the result is the same. People from New York "settling in their homeland" kicking out the native population and claiming 14 million don't even exist...

But let us focus on Ukraine. They deserve to be free and should get into NATO quickly. They are paying the blood price. They are defending all of free Europe with their bravery.

Why would we focus only on Ukraine ?  There is whole world out there. They should be free and they should do what they are pleased but the situation is that they were in unpleasant surrounding and they played the wrong cards and listened to wrong advice's and that is huge lesson to all of Europe. We should not stand between US and Russian predators.

Ukraine can be right in 100% and how did that help them ? Russia is not gonna let go, NATO just proved is not going to do crap cause they don't want a new stone age, Russia has the strongest card possible in their nuclear weapons and can not be controlled nor isolated like North Korea.

Even if Putin gets thrown out russia is not backing up, the peace table is going to be the only solution and whats happening now is catching the best starting points.   

Exactly right. Even if you disregard the theory claiming that Croats originate from Sarmatians, arriving in Europe from northwestern Iran, if you embrace the pan-slavic theory, croats still migrated from northeast and occupied lands in the Balkans.

I like your idyllic view on how this happend.
In your mind, the illyrian and istro-romanian tribes embraced the invadors and willingly shared or even gave them their lands. Riiiight! 

For each Illyrian vs Croat battle Ill give you 10 they fought together. Lets start 

Illyrians even encouraged other Slavic tribes to move to help them preserve the land being invaded from the west and from the south by Greeks.


Feel free to learn more about history by following my posts and leave your #whataboutism behind.


Now , back to the topic which American president had native american origins ? I need one ?

Should natives be compensated and their land returned by European colonialist invaders ?

Why should Europeans or UN members trust US about anything when they show ignorance during their single sided decisions to invade independent countries under faked evedinces of mass destruction weapons which showed to be blatant lie and an invasion excuse for their economic and world domination purposes?

Europe shouldn't trust nor Russia nor US and choose its own path. They can show muscles on Alaska not over our backs with their internet troll warriors which can go and volunteer in Ukraine any moment but... trolling is much more fun and Europeans should risk their lives and their countries. 

Quote from: cobalt on July 12, 2023, 10:13

I wasn't thinking of an area in Europe. I am Christian Palestinian and you can watch the"settlers" stealing our homes and our land every day live on tv.

It is a slower process, they keep pushing us out slowly over years, but the result is the same. People from New York "settling in their homeland" kicking out the native population and claiming 14 million don't even exist...

But let us focus on Ukraine. They deserve to be free and should get into NATO quickly. They are paying the blood price. They are defending all of free Europe with their bravery.

Why would we focus only on Ukraine ?  There is whole world out there. They should be free and they should do what they are pleased but the situation is that they were in unpleasant surrounding and they played the wrong cards and listened to wrong advice's and that is huge lesson to all of Europe. We should not stand between US and Russian predators.

Ukraine can be right in 100% and how did that help them ? Russia is not gonna let go, NATO just proved is not going to do crap cause they don't want a new stone age, Russia has the strongest card possible in their nuclear weapons and can not be controlled nor isolated like North Korea.

Even if Putin gets thrown out russia is not backing up, the peace table is going to be the only solution and whats happening now is catching the best starting points.

Why do NATO-countries react on a Russian invasion of Ukraine (not a NATO member by the way) and not so much on other or earlier conflicts in countries that suffer from dictators and humanitarian abuse? Valid question, and the answer is to be found rather in geopolitical strategies than in morally policing the world and acting on human rights abuses.

Just my 2 cents here, but NATO has no real interest in defeating Russia and liberating Ukraine. The problem is: Russia became a growing threat to western-world stability, and they just went way too far with a brutal and full-scale invasion of a country on the European continent bordering NATO. So what NATO does is balancing the conflict with just enough support to Ukraine so Russia can't get what they want, fight them off, but with just not enough support to inflict a humiliating defeat for Russia which can trigger even worse. If NATO really wanted, Russia's army is flees back to Moscow within days or a few weeks. Boots on the ground, birds in the sky, and game over. But that would mean full scale war with state that has trigger-happy-batshit-crazy leadership and nuclear weapons. It would really hurt NATO members too, and it would only benefit the dark horse here: China.

By the way: NATO already won. They just expanded with Finland and Sweden, and weakened Russia severely. And I guess their next strategy is just letting the conflict bleed out. Russia gets something that the west considers as a defeat for Russia and Russia itself can sell as a victory to their population. Ukraine gets a free entrance ticket to the west and NATO. Meanwhile, a message was sent to third party China: keep quiet and keep your shop open for business.

Ukraine happens to be the theatre for horrible muscle-rolling, with innocent and everyday people brutally suffering from it.
I can only hope it will end soon, and people can start building new lives in peace.

Why do NATO-countries react on a Russian invasion of Ukraine (not a NATO member by the way) and not so much on other or earlier conflicts in countries that suffer from dictators and humanitarian abuse? Valid question, and the answer is to be found rather in geopolitical strategies than in morally policing the world and acting on human rights abuses.

Just my 2 cents here, but NATO has no real interest in defeating Russia and liberating Ukraine. The problem is: Russia became a growing threat to western-world stability, and they just went way too far with a brutal and full-scale invasion of a country on the European continent bordering NATO. So what NATO does is balancing the conflict with just enough support to Ukraine so Russia can't get what they want, fight them off, but with just not enough support to inflict a humiliating defeat for Russia which can trigger even worse. If NATO really wanted, Russia's army is flees back to Moscow within days or a few weeks. Boots on the ground, birds in the sky, and game over. But that would mean full scale war with state that has trigger-happy-batshit-crazy leadership and nuclear weapons. It would really hurt NATO members too, and it would only benefit the dark horse here: China.

By the way: NATO already won. They just expanded with Finland and Sweden, and weakened Russia severely. And I guess their next strategy is just letting the conflict bleed out. Russia gets something that the west considers as a defeat for Russia and Russia itself can sell as a victory to their population. Ukraine gets a free entrance ticket to the west and NATO. Meanwhile, a message was sent to third party China: keep quiet and keep your shop open for business.

Ukraine happens to be the theatre for horrible muscle-rolling, with innocent and everyday people brutally suffering from it.
I can only hope it will end soon, and people can start building new lives in peace.

It would pretty much mean the end of the world, Russia would not fight a war they can not win and the moron is not a bluffer, he would die anyway so he may as swell press the button. And they know it.

Ukraine was pulled in a game they shouldn't have played. And whatever the outcome is they will loose big big time. And latest NATO statements clearly show that they give a crap but until a point and whithout crossing that point Ukraine is in pretty pretty pretty bad position

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 12, 2023, 07:55

Quote from: Zero Talent on July 12, 2023, 07:00

From Kasparov's speech at the NATO Public Forum. A Russian who wishes russia's deafeat.
Smart words of a smart man.

I will only clarify that Kasparov is not Russian by nationality. He is Armenian and Jewish.

The ethnicity is irrelevant
He was russian by nationality and citizenship.

By his own words:
"Although I'm half-Armenian, half-Jewish, I consider myself Russian because Russian is my native tongue, and I grew up with Russian culture."
He was also a presidential candidate in russia and he considers russia his homeland, although he now got the Croatian citizenship to escape from putin's persecution.

Remember that Stalin was a Georgian ethnic. Remember that there are many russian citizens or russian nationals of non-russian ethnicity fighting for putin in Ukraine.

The ethnicity is irrelevant. It's not a matter of genes, it's a matter of culture.
Remember that Zelensky himself is Jewish.

You are not quite right. I wrote that the problem of Russians is in their genes. Russians by nationality have occupied other peoples and nations and are holding by force in the totalitarian Russian empire. I just want to say that it will be very difficult for you to find a Russian by nationality who will speak the same way as Kasparov speaks. Of course, I saw someone in the media, but I'm not sure that these people are sincere, and not playing the role of liberals.
Yes, Stalin was a Georgian, but he served Russians by nationality and strengthened the Russian empire.
In the Russian Empire, there is only one state language - Russian, Russians consider themselves the titular nation. Russians consider all other nations below themselves. If someone lived in their Moscow or St. Petersburg, this could be noticed.