Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 133129 times)

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1200 on:** August 23, 2023, 10:07 »

A huge blue-and-yellow banner was unfurled outside the European Parliament building in Brussels. Today Ukraine celebrates National Flag Day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaXzKgH-atA

Glory to Ukraine!

Annie2022 · « **Reply #1201 on:** August 23, 2023, 15:13 »

News of the day

Reuters: Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has died in plane crash.

CNN: Wagner boss listed among passengers in plane crash as Russia's war continues

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-08-23-23/index.html

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1202 on:** August 23, 2023, 15:42 »

Quote from: Annie on August 23, 2023, 15:13

News of the day

Reuters: Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has died in plane crash.

+100
Today, two main Russian war criminals and terrorists have been eliminated. Prigozhin and Utkin (callsign Wagner).
The entire command staff of the terrorist organization Wagner Group was also liquidated.

I am sure that this is the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Wilm · « **Reply #1203 on:** August 23, 2023, 17:03 »

I think that we should wait and see whether Prigozhin was really on the plane.

Maybe he just wants to disappear in order not to be eliminated by Putin.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #1204 on:** August 23, 2023, 18:30 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 23, 2023, 15:42

Quote from: Annie on August 23, 2023, 15:13
News of the day

Reuters: Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has died in plane crash.
I am sure that this is the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Nah... He rather fell, accidentally as usual, but from a much higher balcony!

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1205 on:** August 24, 2023, 02:01 »

Today, August 24, is a very big holiday. Independence Day of Ukraine!

Ukraine marks the 32nd anniversary of Independence.

The history of Ukraine and the holiday can be read here:
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3752383-ukraine-celebrates-independence-day.html

Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1206 on:** August 24, 2023, 02:09 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on August 23, 2023, 18:30

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 23, 2023, 15:42
Quote from: Annie on August 23, 2023, 15:13
News of the day

Reuters: Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin has died in plane crash.
I am sure that this is the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Nah... He rather fell, accidentally as usual, but from a much higher balcony!

Everyone says that it was putin who eliminated prigogine, this will be the official version. But I do not think so. This prigozhin was a trusted man of putin, and this terrorist group Wagner Group carried out all the orders of putin. Even if putin wanted to kill prigozhin, why would they kill utkin and the entire command staff of the Wagner Group together with him. prigogine could have been eliminated with fewer losses.
Here, either the work of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or in russia there are people who are the second power. I also wrote earlier that it is not known who manages the Russian empire at all. Perhaps we are seeing the beginning of a change in the facade of power in this empire.

In any case, the elimination of these terrorists is a very good gift for Ukraine on the day of its independence.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1207 on:** August 24, 2023, 06:46 »

Quote from: Wilm on August 23, 2023, 17:03

I think that we should wait and see whether Prigozhin was really on the plane.

Maybe he just wants to disappear in order not to be eliminated by Putin.

Rashists already confirm his liquidation. Who was actually there on the plane is not known, it is impossible to believe what the Russians say. But one thing can be said, the media will no longer show either prigozhin or utkin.

In fact, the terrorist with the nickname Wagner is utkin, it was he who founded this terrorist gang. Prigozhin came there later, as a financier. Yes, and putin worked directly only with prigozhin.

Utkin photo

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1208 on:** August 24, 2023, 06:51 »

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1209 on:** August 24, 2023, 07:19 »

Now in the world's leading media, various Russian agents of the KGB and putin's write beautiful obituaries about the war criminal and terrorist prigozhin. They call prigozhin a Russian dissident, a freedom fighter, and so on. Therefore, I always say that it is necessary to expel Russians from the democratic countries of the world, except for propaganda and lies, the Russians do not write anything else.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1210 on:** August 25, 2023, 09:13 »

There is some cool news. Last night, troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine landed on boats in the occupied Crimea. During the operation, 35 Russian rashists were eliminated, the S-400 air defense system was destroyed and the Ukrainian flag was planted in the Ukrainian Crimea.

Glory to Ukraine!

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1211 on:** August 25, 2023, 11:45 »

Cheerful modern military and popular Ukrainian song.

https://youtu.be/WXI_GG_ynq8

Translation of the song into English
https://lyricstranslate.com/en/arta-arta.html

Meanings of some words:
Moskal - Russian, occupier.
Kazapian, katzap - Russian.
GRU - KGB.

Josephine · « **Reply #1212 on:** August 25, 2023, 11:47 »

Hundred years ago, the American politician Hiram Johnson came to the conclusion: "The first victim of a war is the truth."

misinformation in times of war on both sides... what is true and what not. When and how will this discussion end.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1213 on:** August 25, 2023, 11:56 »

Josephine, I and other normal people in this thread are just trying to discuss the truth. There are several Russian trolls in the topic, yes, they write lies here. But rarely anyone reacts to them, I sent them to ignore.
Connect to the topic, ask questions.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1214 on:** August 25, 2023, 15:06 »

WHY THE COLLAPSE OF RUSSIA IS BENEFICIAL TO THE WEST

The West continues to consider the collapse of Russia as an undesirable and too risky scenario. It also did not give up the ghostly idea of winning Moscow over to its side in the future or at least making it neutral in a quite possible global confrontation with China. This is evidenced by a number of direct and indirect signals displayed by Western political elites since the beginning of the phase of full-scale Russian aggression against Ukraine. However, this geopolitical vision of the West is wrong. It is based on stereotypes and fears formed in the 20th century. Another reason is inertial thinking, which prevents it from seeing the global picture from a different angle and opening up new opportunities where usually they see only dangers.

Leaders of Western countries have repeatedly expressed the narrative: Putin should not win in Ukraine. But we almost never hear clear statements about the need for a military defeat of Russia and a decisive defeat of the aggressor. With the exception of European politicians who have felt the consequences of Russian imperialism, Western political elites have little enthusiasm regarding the idea of Russia’s disintegration. There are two main motives at the heart of such a biased attitude: fear and hope.

Speaking in February 2023 in Warsaw, US President Joe Biden said that the West does not seek to destroy or take control of Russia. As at the end of the 20th century, the West fears the consequences of the possible collapse of the Russian Federation in the form of uncontrolled proliferation of nuclear weapons. And he also harbors illusory hopes that after the end of Putin’s rule, we can once again try to democratize Russia and make it a more adequate player on the international stage. Another serious motive, which is guided by America and Europe, is that the integrity of Russia must be preserved in order to counter China. Such considerations undoubtedly affect the level of support for Ukraine in the war. A painful, quick, and decisive defeat of the Russian invaders on the battlefield can trigger uncontrolled processes in the Russian Federation. Processes in which Washington and Brussels are not too interested.

Thinking this way, the West ignores its own disappointing historical experience. In the 20th century, the West twice missed the opportunity to destroy the empire centered in Moscow. Accordingly, it faced the consequences of its own indecision and wrong strategy. Russia’s current aggression against Ukraine is also a consequence of wrong decisions made in the past.

The coming to power of the Bolsheviks in Russia as a result of the October coup of 1917 caught the leading Western countries by surprise. Engaged in the First World War, the political leaders of that time treated the Bolsheviks lightly, hoping that Lenin’s government would not last long. However, they were wrong in their calculations. When the First World War ended within a year, the Bolsheviks managed to strengthen themselves, controlled a large part of the territory of the former Russian Empire and planned to extend their influence on uncontrolled regions. In this situation, the countries of the Entente did not develop a single position regarding what to do with Russia. Instead of supporting the national aspirations of the peoples enslaved by Moscow, the Entente bet on the White Guard movement, which advocated a “united and indivisible Russia.” Winston Churchill, who was then the Minister of Defence of Great Britain, advocated the creation of a so-called sanitary border with Bolshevik Russia. Meanwhile, some Western politicians considered it possible to establish a dialogue with the Reds. No one was seriously interested in the collapse of Russia. As a result, the Bolsheviks managed to revive the Russian Empire, but in the format of the USSR. This later created many problems for the free world and became a prologue to the Second World War, which Hitler and Stalin blessed on August 23, 1939, with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. A lion share of the last century saw the opposition of the Russian communist empire to the countries of the West. An empire that could have disappeared in its early years if Western democracies had shown more persistence.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1215 on:** August 25, 2023, 15:07 »

When the USSR was on the verge of collapse at the turn of the 80s and 90s, leading Western politicians categorically would not support, with the exception of the Baltic states, the exit of the national republics from the Soviet Union. The administration of US President George W. Bush was very concerned about the proliferation of nuclear weapons. There they sincerely believed that it was better to deal with one Russia than with a number of newly independent states. Also, for some reason, the West believed in the success of Russia’s democratization, deciding that the era of global confrontation had ended forever. Only US Defense Secretary Dick Cheney believed that the US should take advantage of the window of opportunity and contribute to the disintegration of Russia in every possible way. He did not believe in the triumph of democracy on the territory of Muscovy and assumed that in a certain time, the authoritarian regime would be revived in Russia. And so it happened. But in the early 1990s, Cheney’s views were not popular.

The democratization of Russia is an illusion that is almost impossible to realize. During the entire existence of Moscow, first in the form of a principality and kingdom, and then in the form of an empire, the period that can be conventionally called “hybrid democracy” lasts no more than 10 years. Even under Boris Yeltsin, the Kremlin perceived the West not as a partner and ally, but as a strategic competitor and enemy. For the sprouts of democracy to grow in such a society as the Russian one, a very long time is needed in combination with external management. The denazification of Germany after 1945 was carried out under the conditions of occupation of its territory by the Allied forces and lasted for decades. It will take much longer to denazify and de-imperialize the mentality of the Russians. After all, Russia has lived with a model of authoritarian rule throughout its history. However, none of the Western countries is willing to send troops into the territory of the Russian Federation and teach Russians about democracy. The only option for the democratization of Russia is its disintegration into a number of state entities. In this case, it is possible to gradually include some of the countries that will appear in the place of the former Russian Federation in the Western world and try to cure them of the imperial mentality. If Russia remains within its current borders, the coming to power of a new Putin, who will cherish hopes of revenge, is only a matter of time.

When some Western politicians say that the focus needs to be on the growing threat from China, they miss the threat posed by Russia. They have fantastic hopes that Moscow will be a deterrent for Beijing. Meanwhile, the threat emanating from China and Russia is identical for the West. At its core is the struggle of the world of authoritarian dictatorships against the free world. Moscow and Beijing sincerely dislike the West and would like to rewrite the rules of the game on the international stage; to replace international law with the law of the strongest; to adjust the borders of states and spheres of influence. Therefore, they are much more likely to join forces in confronting the global West than to fight each other. Even if Russia weakens even more and becomes a vassal of a much stronger China, this will not prevent the formation of the Beijing-Moscow axis. Additionally, consider their attracting smaller players like Iran or North Korea to it. If the Chinese dragon secures the support of Russia, which will remain as a single empire within its present borders, its aggressive ambitions will be greatly enhanced. Accordingly, the West will have to disperse its forces on two fronts, simultaneously restraining Moscow, and Beijing.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1216 on:** August 25, 2023, 15:07 »

A completely different situation may arise in the event of the disintegration of Russia into a number of state entities. For example, some of the states that will emerge on the vast expanses of the former Russian Federation will fall into the orbit of Chinese influence. Still, certainly not all of them will. As for the rest of the new state entities, they can evolve in different directions. In particular, to become loyal to the West or democratize. Some other new republics may come under the influence of, say, Türkiye or other regional players. But it is definitely better than having a military and political alliance between China and the Russian Federation within its current borders.

The collapse of Russia is the only real chance to separate this great colonial empire from Chinese influence. It’s an effective means of preventing the close cooperation and alliance of the two authoritarian regimes in their fight against the free world. The disappearance from the political map of the state permeated with anti-Western mentality and ideas of revanchism more than compensates the West for the risks that will emerge in the process of the collapse of the Russian Federation. After that, the Western world will be able to concentrate its forces in one direction, restraining China’s global efforts.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1217 on:** August 27, 2023, 03:12 »

EU Commission calls on Russia to restore 'grain deal'

The European Commission has called on Russia to restore the "grain deal". Russian restrictions on the supply of Ukrainian grain via the Black Sea are causing problems not only for Kyiv but also for many developing countries, according to the Executive Vice President of the European Commission, Valdis Dombrovskis, cited by Reuters.

He emphasizes that Russia is using "grain as a weapon."

"We support all efforts by United Nations, by Turkey on Black Sea grain initiative," he told reporters, adding the bloc was providing alternative trading routes, also called solidarity lanes, to Ukraine for grain and other exports.

According to Dombrovskis, through alternative routes via Poland and Romania, approximately 45 million tons of grain, oilseed products, and related goods have been exported, which is a crucial lifeline for Ukraine.

"The European Union is supporting Ukraine through defense, financial and other aid, aiming to throw Russian troops beyond international borders of Ukraine," he stated.

Dombrovskis adds that the EU is concerned that some countries, including China and India, have not joined the Western sanctions against Russia.

During bilateral negotiations between representatives of India and the EU, EU officials raised the issue of exporting processed Indian oil from Russian oil, which somewhat undermines the purpose of sanctions, he adds.

However, according to him, this is unlikely to impact the ongoing negotiations for the proposed free trade agreement between the EU and India.
______

What kind of deal with the rashists can we even talk about? EU wants to ease sanctions against Russians? Connect Russian banks to SWIFT, pump Russian ammonia through Ukraine, prevent the Armed Forces of Ukraine from liquidating Russians in the occupied territories of southern Ukraine? Everything that I have just written is the terms of the grain deal.
Fuck any deals with Russian Naz.is.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1218 on:** August 27, 2023, 06:33 »

Yes, the sanctions against russia are working

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/eeas/yes-sanctions-against-russia-are-working_en

....
"Compared to 2021, 58% of total EU imports from Russia were already cut off in 2022 - an unprecedented decoupling. Non-energy imports from Russia have fallen close to 60%, with the most visible drops for iron and steel, precious metals and wood. This movement is accelerating: the decline in imports of non-energy goods is above 75% for the first quarter of 2023, and the fall is even greater for energy goods, at minus 80%.
....

EU report on the results of sanctions against the russian empire. I recommend everyone to go through the link and read more. Yes, there are results. But we need to destroy russia even more.
We need a 100% embargo on any eco-sport from russia and a 100% embargo on any shipments to russia. All citizens of the russian federation (who do not have refugee status) must be expelled from democratic countries. All Russians (who do not have refugee status) should be prohibited from doing any business on the territory of the EU and NATO countries and receiving money from these countries.
The russian empire must be fenced off from the world with an iron wall and barbed wire.

zastavkin · « **Reply #1219 on:** August 27, 2023, 08:09 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on August 27, 2023, 06:33

Yes, the sanctions against russia are working

In the first six months of this year, the United States increased the purchase of uranium from Russia by 2.2 times - up to 416 tons of uranium from 188 tons.
Yes, the sanctions are working. But they hit harder not on Russia, but on Europe. This is only a way for the United States to weaken its competitor - Europe and make it more dependent on USA expensive and non-environmental resources. Nord Stream was blown up, Europe knows who did it, but is afraid to even say a word about it.
China and India are also among the beneficiaries of these sanctions.

Ridding Europe of old weapons by transferring to Ukraine is a US way to cash in on the subsequent sale of new weapons to Europe.

Peaceful cooperation with Russia has always been more beneficial. I really hope that someday this nightmare will end and we will return to mutually beneficial economic and cultural cooperation.

This is my "some different opinion"

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1220 on:** August 27, 2023, 12:35 »

Bakhmut, Ukraine. Elimination of rashists. POV video on a GoPro camera.

https://youtu.be/oRAZD87lnAw

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1221 on:** August 27, 2023, 16:11 »

Ukraine Seeks 'Gamechanger' HIMARS Upgrade To 'Win the War'

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-gamechanger-himars-upgrade-win-war-dcipm-cluster-munitions-counteroffensive-artillery-1820071

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1222 on:** August 28, 2023, 03:22 »

So, as follows from the article I linked to, thousands of M26 DCIPM rockets are awaiting utilization in the warehouses of NATO countries. Why are these missiles still not in Ukraine? Ukraine their utilization together with the Russians. A lot of M26 DCIPM rockets are in warehouses in Germany. Germans, demand that Scholz send these shells to Ukraine.
Biden! Don't be a coward, give Ukraine F16 fighters, ATACMS and M26 DCIPM rockets.

In any case, all fans of the Democrats see what they are doing and what it costs Ukraine and Ukrainians.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #1223 on:** August 28, 2023, 03:45 »

Quote from: zastavkin on August 27, 2023, 08:09

...
Yes, the sanctions are working. But they hit harder, not on Russia, but on Europe.

Partly agree with this. Russia has also made a lot of money from increased energy prices due to the sanctions. It is a real wake-up call for Europe to not let themselves get reliant on Russia for energy or raw materials again. It is a real credit to Europeans that they are prepared to suffer for the sake of another sovereign state, and I think a real surprise to Putin that you don't have to be an ethno nationalist to want to protect your home and way of life.

Quote from: zastavkin on August 27, 2023, 08:09

Peaceful cooperation with Russia has always been more beneficial. I really hope that someday this nightmare will end, and we will return to mutually beneficial economic and cultural cooperation.

I really hope one day peaceful cooperation with the Russian people will be possible. But sad to say, it has never really existed before.

"Cultural cooperation" has largely been through sports used as war by other means (see mass doping etc.) or for "sports washing" the country's reputation while they invade their neighbours. Russia doesn't have liberal (small l) government. It's an ethnonationalist far right government. Half of Putin's speeches are about keeping the "infection" of "perverted" foreign cultures out, to stop it polluting "pure" Russia. Under these circumstances "Cultural cooperation" is a joke.

"Economic cooperation" has been Russian elites hiding their money from the Russian people in London and other western places (corruption on both sides) or Western nations trying to raid Russia (see "shock therapy") or Russia in turn illegally appropriating infrastructure built by Western corporations.

Calls for return to peace from the Russian state media and government at this time are sadly just propaganda and calls for Ukraine to surrender.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #1224 on:** August 28, 2023, 04:26 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on August 28, 2023, 03:45

Calls for return peace from the Russian state media and government at this time are sadly just propaganda and calls for Ukraine to surrender.

+100
This Russian zastavkin rebroadcasts Russian propaganda narratives here on the forum (he works according to the KGB manuals). The purpose of this propaganda is to blame the United States for everything, to make a split among the NATO countries, to stop military assistance to Ukraine, to tell how good and kind russia is and what good Russians are, and as a result, save russia from collapse. Russian trolls have been promoting propaganda in the EU for many years about how bad Americans are and what a bad country the USA is.

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Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions (Read 133129 times)

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