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Author Topic: This should settle some different opinions  (Read 132407 times)

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« Reply #1275 on: September 01, 2023, 16:48 »
+2

I didn't see this before, but I would like to reply.

The Dalai Lama has had direct experience with this when China annexed Tibet when he was a young man, and the Buddhists had to flee the country and settled in India, which by the way was largely responsible for bringing the teachings of Buddhism to the western world. Prior to that, it was mainly isolated to Tibet.  So I wanted to see what he said about war.

Just briefly, he has said different things at different times, depending on different circumstances, whether to flee/walk away or whether to defend. But the bottom line in whatever you choose, is hatred.

In Buddhism, it is the level of hate you have for offenders that you have to let go of. Hatred is the most destruction of emotions, and it will never repair what you have lost or provide the right solutions.

Also remember Gandhi brought down the powerful British empire through peaceful resistance. This may be a different situation, but there are lessons to be learnt from it: If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire. 

For me personally, I believe its politics and megalomaniacs who cause wars, and they should be the targets (to fix or eliminate, often through the dissemination of truth to the people. The people have so much power.) but not to hate a whole country just because they were manipulated into believing what these leaders told them.

But can you defend your country through love for your country and not hate the other side? That is the difficult part - but something we should all aim for.

Annie, respect to you and thank you for the thoughtful wording.
That was the best post on over 50 'pages that I have read here (including mine  ;)).
I agree wholeheartedly. 


Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #1276 on: September 02, 2023, 00:16 »
+3
It is also worth noting that Gandhi wasn't a universal pacifist. The situation with the British Empire was a unique one.

The British were ruling via what has been dubbed Liberal Imperialism. Gandhi was a very intelligent man and saw that contradiction was something he could leverage. The pacifism laid bare the lie of the British that they were paternal benevolent rulers and forced the British to expose the violence which they ruled by in contrast.

I heard a historian discussing Gandhi's letters to people who had asked him for help with their own struggles, and he actually had recommended violent resistance or self-defence in some circumstances.

I believe it was in that interview, and several times subsequently, that I have heard the Indian struggle for independence contrasted very specifically with Russia. To the effect that in Russia the Indians nonviolently protesting would simply have been murdered to the last man. Jallianwala Bagh led to all kinds of hand wringing and an enquiry. Russia levelled Chechnya and is levelling Ukraine without the Russian state batting an eye. When it comes to the effectiveness of pacifism, Russia is the most frequent textbook counter example to India.

The British were trying to appear like a civilising force, Russia has been recruiting from prisons by saying "we particularly want mass murders, we can use your talents in Ukraine".

EDIT: Rereading my post it could sound like I am saying the British were somehow less bad. The British empire was mind bogglingly brutal and it's legacy isn't over. The full extent of the horrors will probably never be known as they were also very thorough in covering it up both at the time and during the collapse. It ran one of the biggest propaganda machines in history. Highly recommend Caroline Elkins' recent work. I am just pointing out that the empire's unique contradictions made pacifism the ideal tool.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 11:04 by Justanotherphotographer »

Annie2022

« Reply #1277 on: September 02, 2023, 01:50 »
0
It is also worth noting that Gandhi wasn't a universal pacifist. The situation with the British Empire was a unique one.

The British were ruling via what has been dubbed Liberal Imperialism. Gandhi was a very intelligent man and saw that contradiction was something he could leverage. The pacifism laid bare the lie of the British that they were paternal benevolent rulers and forced the British to expose the violence which they ruled by in contrast.

I heard a historian discussing Gandhi's letters to people who had asked him for help with their own struggles, and he actually had recommended violent resistance or self-defence in some circumstances.

I believe it was in that interview, and several times subsequently, that I have heard the Indian struggle for independence contrasted very specifically with Russia. To the effect that in Russia the Indians nonviolently protesting would simply have been murdered to the last man. Jallianwala Bagh led to all kinds of hand ringing and an enquiry. Russia levelled Chechnya and is levelling Ukraine without the Russian state batting an eye. When it comes to the effectiveness of pacifism, Russia is the most frequent textbook counter example to India.

The British were trying to appear like a civilising force, Russia has been recruiting from prisons by saying "we particularly want mass murders, we can use your talents in Ukraine".

EDIT: Rereading my post it could sound like I am saying the British were somehow less bad. The British empire was mind bogglingly brutal and it's legacy isn't over. The full extent of the horrors will probably never be known as they were also very thorough in covering it up both at the time and during the collapse. It ran one of the biggest propaganda machines in history. Highly recommend Caroline Elkins' recent work. I am just pointing out that the empire's unique contradictions made pacifism the ideal tool.

True, but not the point I was hoping to 'inspire' (for want of a better word) Stoker. (If that's at all possible :) ) As I said, it [Ukraine/Russia] may be a different situation, but the underlying attitude can be the same. That is, it's not the people of that country, its the 'empire', that he should hate, if he needs to hate anything.

 If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 01:57 by Annie »

Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #1278 on: September 02, 2023, 02:40 »
+1
True, but not the point I was hoping to 'inspire' (for want of a better word) Stoker. (If that's at all possible :) ) As I said, it [Ukraine/Russia] may be a different situation, but the underlying attitude can be the same. That is, it's not the people of that country, its the 'empire', that he should hate, if he needs to hate anything.

 If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.

I get it. My point is that if pacifism wasnt the solution to his particular problem he may have said something different. His words were morally correct in that they were for the right cause, and pragmatic in that they were the best way to defeat the particular enemy.

« Reply #1279 on: September 02, 2023, 03:37 »
0
In Buddhism, it is the level of hate you have for offenders that you have to let go of. Hatred is the most destruction of emotions, and it will never repair what you have lost or provide the right solutions.



This is your Buddhism, look at the photo.

Also remember Gandhi brought down the powerful British empire through peaceful resistance. This may be a different situation, but there are lessons to be learnt from it: If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire. 
:o :o :o ::) ::) ::) :'( :'( :'(
Your problem, like the problem of EU citizens, is that you idealize Russians. You don't know who the Russians are. Russians are wild and uneducated people of Asian origin. Russians do not have their own history, they constantly steal someone else's history and appropriate it for themselves. Russians are barbarians and orcs, a crowd that wants blood and robbery. Throughout the history of the Russian empire, Russians have been living in their own lies, and throughout their history, Russians have constantly attacked other peoples, destroyed them, robbed them. There are many occupied peoples in the Russian Empire, but they are all of Asian origin. Ethnic Russians are also of Asian origin, but are a bit like Slavs, because they have some Slavic blood in them.
Don't compare savages with the British.

but not to hate a whole country just because they were manipulated into believing what these leaders told them.
:o :o :o
If the Russian tsars (and putin too) did not start wars and murders, the Russian people would get rid of such a tsar. Once again, the Russians are a crowd of brutal orcs.

But can you defend your country through love for your country and not hate the other side? That is the difficult part - but something we should all aim for.
Remember World War II. The Naz.is were not loved, they were killed.

If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.
And there is also no need to try to compare Russians with German *. Unlike the Russians, the Germans were educated and did not seek to destroy everything and kill everyone. The Russian Empire is a bunch of uneducated and evil orcs of Asian origin.
You need to watch horror films about zombies, all you will see is the truth, the truth about Russians.

« Reply #1280 on: September 02, 2023, 03:40 »
+2
True, but not the point I was hoping to 'inspire' (for want of a better word) Stoker. (If that's at all possible :) ) As I said, it [Ukraine/Russia] may be a different situation, but the underlying attitude can be the same. That is, it's not the people of that country, its the 'empire', that he should hate, if he needs to hate anything.

 If this Empire seems an evil thing to me, it is not because I hate the British, I hate only the Empire.

I get it. My point is that if pacifism wasnt the solution to his particular problem he may have said something different. His words were morally correct in that they were for the right cause, and pragmatic in that they were the best way to defeat the particular enemy.
+100
Annie needs to come to Ukraine, to the line of fire. Very quickly Annie will forget what Buddhism is.

« Reply #1281 on: September 02, 2023, 04:11 »
+1
During the Middle Ages, Kyivan Rus', and now Ukraine (Kyivan Rus' descendant) defends Europe from the evil mob of Asian troops. This is the truth, the historical truth. And this is well understood in the EU.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 04:13 by stoker2014 »

Annie2022

« Reply #1282 on: September 02, 2023, 04:23 »
+1
The Russian Empire is a bunch of uneducated and evil orcs of Asian origin.
You need to watch horror films about zombies, all you will see is the truth, the truth about Russians.

What do you think of Alexei Navalny, Stoke?

(PS. Its not a trick question, I am just interested.)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 04:26 by Annie »

« Reply #1283 on: September 02, 2023, 05:21 »
+1

Annie needs to come to Ukraine, to the line of fire. Very quickly Annie will forget what Buddhism is.

You should also

« Reply #1284 on: September 02, 2023, 07:24 »
0
The Russian Empire is a bunch of uneducated and evil orcs of Asian origin.
You need to watch horror films about zombies, all you will see is the truth, the truth about Russians.

What do you think of Alexei Navalny, Stoke?

(PS. Its not a trick question, I am just interested.)
Alexei Navalny is a rashist.

If you asked about Alexander Nevzorov, it would be a more difficult question. This person says the right words, but can even a Russian like Nevzorov be trusted, this is a difficult question. Even people like Nevzorov are not trusted in Ukraine, history has shown that the Russians end up cheating.

As for Alexei Navalny, he and those like him create the appearance of "good Russians", but if Alexei Navalny gets power, he will eventually give this power to people like putin.

If Alexei Navalny was not profitable or dangerous for Putin, he would have been killed long ago. The Russians create for the world the appearance that they have an "opposition", but this is all just an appearance, an illusion. Alexei Navalny plays a certain role, depending on the development of the situation, perhaps the Russian regime will use it.

« Reply #1285 on: September 03, 2023, 02:09 »
+1
Musks new Twitter policies helped spread Russian propaganda, E.U. says

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/01/musk-twitter-x-russia-propaganda/

« Reply #1286 on: September 03, 2023, 02:47 »
+1
Pope Francis continues the war against peace and democracy. Yesterday he said that the Mongol Empire should be revived. The Russians are the heirs of the Mongols, which means that this is a direct support of the Russian Naz.is.
How much money do Russians and Chinese pay him?

Moreover, I have come to Mongolia as you are marking an anniversary that is important for you, 860 years since the birth of Genghis Khan. The fact that the empire could embrace such distant and varied lands over the centuries bears witness to the remarkable ability of your ancestors to acknowledge the outstanding qualities of the peoples present in its immense territory and to put those qualities at the service of a common development. This model should be valued and re-proposed in our own day. May Heaven grant that today, on this earth devastated by countless conflicts, there be a renewal, respectful of international laws, of the conditions of what was once the pax mongolica, namely, the absence of conflicts.

https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2023/09/02/230902a.html

The number of people killed by these Mongols is of no concern to Pope Francis. And how many peoples were under the Mongol occupation too.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 02:50 by stoker2014 »

« Reply #1287 on: September 03, 2023, 03:25 »
0
Pope Francis did not meet with the Dalai Lama.

« Reply #1288 on: September 03, 2023, 23:22 »
+1
Fascinating map of European ancestry, proving that all those nationalistic ideologies based on "pure" nations, we see emerging everywhere, are only a bunch of BS.
No nation is pure. Many have more in common than the nationalistic history manuals dictate.

Interesting to observe the Celtic genes, found in most of Europe, especially in Western Europe (in red).

Also, the Austrians have more in common with the Czechs, Slovaks, and Hungarians than with the Germans.

Take note of the difference between russians and Ukrainians: while both have a strong Slavic component (yellow), russians have a significant amount of Asian genes (purple), similar to the Fins and the Baltics. Ukrainians are missing these Uralo-Finnic/Siberian genes. They have more of the Mediterranean and Caucasian genes (green, orange, black). So much for the propaganda, claiming that they are one compact nation!
Also, the Poles are "more Slavs" than the russians  ;)


« Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 23:36 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #1289 on: September 04, 2023, 03:02 »
0
Zero Talent, your map is propaganda. She claims that Russians and Ukrainians are one people. All Russian propagandists and trolls will agree with you.  >:(
You can see for yourself that only part of the Russian empire is shown on your map. Part of the territory of modern Russia used to be part of Kyivan Rus'. Kyivan Rus' is a state in which Ukrainians lived, Russians did not yet exist in nature.
Cities such as Novgorod, Smolensk, Vladimir, Rostov were not originally Russian, they were Ukrainian and were part of Kyivan Rus'. Naturally, the blood of people in these cities even now has much in common with Ukrainian blood. The cities I listed were occupied by Muscovia.

Moscovia (region)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscovia_(region)

Moscovia or Muscovy is a historical region in Central russia. The name derived from Moscow and the Moskva river. It was known to its neighbors through the Russian Moscovian state that emerged in the 13th century. Finno-Ugric tribes lived in the Moscow area.

Kyivan Rus'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27

Kyivan Rus' was a state and later an amalgam of principalities in Eastern and Northern Europe from the late 9th to the mid-13th century.

Initially, the territory of the future Moscovia was also under the control of Kyivan Rus', but the main population there was not Slavic. Kyiv sent the guilty Ukrainians there, who eventually added a little Slavic blood to the Russians.

"russians have a significant amount of Asian genes (purple), similar to the Fins and the Baltics."
I agree with this phrase.

But, in order to see the composition of Russian blood, you need to take for analysis the territory of Muscovia without the cities I have indicated. Without cities Novgorod, Smolensk, Vladimir, Rostov. And then we will see that Russians are more Asian by blood than Slavs.

Also, only a piece of the Russian empire is shown on your map. Look at the whole map of russia, and you will see that the Russians have occupied a lot of Asian peoples who have nothing to do with the Slavs at all. Therefore, when say Russian, by genes, race and ethnicity, this are Asians. And if you look at the Russians who live on the territory of the former Moscovia, it means that this is a person who has more Asian blood than Slavic.

And once again, any analysis should start with Kyivan Rus'. And Kyivan Rus' is a Ukrainian state inhabited by Ukrainians.

It also follows from your map that Ukrainians are Slavs. This is true.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 12:29 by stoker2014 »

« Reply #1290 on: September 04, 2023, 03:17 »
0
I'll add more. From 1240 to 1480 Moscow was part of the Mongol Empire. It also added Asian blood to the Russians.

« Reply #1291 on: September 04, 2023, 03:30 »
0
When Kyiv stood, there was no such city as Moscow even in the project.

 ;D ;D ;D



https://twitter.com/USEmbassyKyiv/status/1496115593149358081
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 08:43 by stoker2014 »

« Reply #1292 on: September 04, 2023, 09:27 »
+1
I know that in 1050 Moscow was a forest when Kyiv was among the largest European cities, with over 40k inhabitants.
You already mentioned it yourself on multiple occations.

Just pay attention to what I wrote. This not propaganda, but science.

I specifically said that russian and Ukrainians are NOT the same people.
The map above is cropped, but on Eupedia.com you can find wider maps for each haplogroup.

Below is the Finno-Uralic/Siberian haplogroup, present in russians, but not that much in Ukrainians.

Check also the spread of all slavic haplogroups combined.

Both Ukrainians and russian have slavic components in their genome, but the Poles have the most.  ;)
I also said that Ukrainins have a significant amount of Mediterranean greco-roman ancestry, while russians have less.

Maybe you can better understand that while most modern nations have their specific mix, they also have A LOT in common, especially first tier neighbors. This is only normal because of migration and intermarriage throughout history.

No nation is "pure" anything.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml

PS. Also note that these maps are correctly showing Crimea as part of Ukraine.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 10:55 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #1293 on: September 04, 2023, 11:53 »
+2
I know that in 1050 Moscow was a forest when Kyiv was among the largest European cities, with over 40k inhabitants.
You already mentioned it yourself on multiple occations.

Just pay attention to what I wrote. This not propaganda, but science.

I specifically said that russian and Ukrainians are NOT the same people.
The map above is cropped, but on Eupedia.com you can find wider maps for each haplogroup.

Below is the Finno-Uralic/Siberian haplogroup, present in russians, but not that much in Ukrainians.

Check also the spread of all slavic haplogroups combined.

Both Ukrainians and russian have slavic components in their genome, but the Poles have the most.  ;)
I also said that Ukrainins have a significant amount of Mediterranean greco-roman ancestry, while russians have less.

Maybe you can better understand that while most modern nations have their specific mix, they also have A LOT in common, especially first tier neighbors. This is only normal because of migration and intermarriage throughout history.

No nation is "pure" anything.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/maps_Y-DNA_haplogroups.shtml

PS. Also note that these maps are correctly showing Crimea as part of Ukraine.  ;)

Very interesting website which I didn't know so far. Thanks a lot for this information, Zero!

« Reply #1294 on: September 04, 2023, 12:03 »
+1
Very interesting website which I didn't know so far. Thanks a lot for this information, Zero!

You're welcome. Please take note that the Swedes and the Norwegians are more germanic that the Germans! 🙂

« Reply #1295 on: September 04, 2023, 12:28 »
0
Zero Talent, if we are talking about the nationality and race of Russians, then we need to decide who these Russians are and where they live. This is what I wrote about. Russia is an empire and Russians by nationality are only a part of this empire. Therefore, I think that in your original map, the nationality of the Russians and the percentage of other nationalities in it was not determined correctly. Most of russia is inhabited by Asians, who are unlikely to have Slavic blood in their blood. In the territories previously owned by Kyivan Rus', there will be more people in whose blood there is more of the Slavic race. But on the territory of the former Moscovia, mostly Russians by nationality lived and live. And only on the territory of Moscovia you need to look at what genes are in the blood of those people (these will be Russians by nationality).
If you can use these maps to determine what is there by genes in the territory of the former Moscovia, publish the results. But I don't think such studies have been done. I do not know how these maps were compiled, but Russians by nationality have very little Slavic blood.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 12:33 by stoker2014 »

« Reply #1296 on: September 04, 2023, 12:36 »
0


Slavs live throughout the Russian Empire, as follows from your photo. But this is a lie.

« Reply #1297 on: September 04, 2023, 12:40 »
+1
Zero Talent, if we are talking about the nationality and race of Russians, then we need to decide who these Russians are and where they live. This is what I wrote about. Russia is an empire and Russians by nationality are only a part of this empire. Therefore, I think that in your original map, the nationality of the Russians and the percentage of other nationalities in it was not determined correctly. Most of russia is inhabited by Asians, who are unlikely to have Slavic blood in their blood. In the territories previously owned by Kyivan Rus', there will be more people in whose blood there is more of the Slavic race. But on the territory of the former Moscovia, mostly Russians by nationality lived and live. And only on the territory of Moscovia you need to look at what genes are in the blood of those people (these will be Russians by nationality).
If you can use these maps to determine what is there by genes in the territory of the former Moscovia, publish the results.

You can check the map with the spread of slavs (in yellow). You obviously see how the spread slowly fades away and then stops somewhere in Asia.
Beyond that, the population density is decreasing, so the non-slavic part will not contribute that much to the mix, even if it has a wide geographical spread.
Similarly, small amounts of slavic ancestry is also found in Italy, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Irak, Iran...

... and it's not a lie. It's science. It's the opposite of propaganda.


What the first map shows is an average for each modern nation.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 12:51 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #1298 on: September 04, 2023, 12:49 »
0
What the first map is shows is an average for each modern nation.
+100

Therefore, I say that in order to analyze the Russian empire and determine precisely Russians by nationality, it is necessary to analyze not all the occupied peoples, but only those people who live on the territory of the former Moscovia. But this card will not allow you to do this, because. this map thinks that many Slavs live on the territory of Moscovia. Science is good, but when it comes to russia, Russian propaganda is involved, and scientists give wrong results. Do you believe Russians? Who made this map? Who gave data on the regions of russia?

« Reply #1299 on: September 04, 2023, 12:50 »
0
Do not believe Russian scientists, they are rashists and obey the KGB. All this data is used by putin to justify the occupation of Ukraine.


 

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