MicrostockGroup

Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: wut on May 04, 2012, 04:14

Title: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 04, 2012, 04:14
I'm listening to ppl traveling to 3rd world countries how stiff that has become. You easily spend 3-3,5k on Cuba or in Brazil in a couple of weeks. That's 3 times more you'd typically spend there 5 or 10 years ago. The same goes for Asia, Thailand for example, prices got doubled in the last 5 years, at least alcoholic drinks cost the same as in Europe (because Asians can't handle liquor). So you actually pay 500-1500 for a plane ticket to enjoy yourself and throw your money at everything because it's so cheap, just to realize everything costs the same or even more as in most EU countries. And there's no real problem with crime in Europe, you can't say it's dangerous whereas if you travel to any Latin American country (except for Cuba) you really have to watch where and when you're going somewhere, especially by yourself or as a couple or even a small group. I'd really like to go to Latin America for instance (probably Mexico due to cheap flights). But all that puts me off. I'm not interested in Asia (perhaps in India), just to let you know to focus on other continents when you write your posts ;)

I'd like to hear some first hand experiences, I know there's lots of ppl traveling a lot, like holgs etc.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Noodles on May 04, 2012, 05:00
I'm listening to ppl traveling to 3rd world countries how stiff that has become. You easily spend 3-3,5k on Cuba or in Brazil in a couple of weeks. That's 3 times more you'd typically spend there 5 or 10 years ago. The same goes for Asia, Thailand for example, prices got doubled in the last 5 years, at least alcoholic drinks cost the same as in Europe (because Asians can't handle liquor). So you actually pay 500-1500 for a plane ticket to enjoy yourself and throw your money at everything because it's so cheap, just to realize everything costs the same or even more as in most EU countries. And there's no real problem with crime in Europe, you can't say it's dangerous whereas if you travel to any Latin American country (except for Cuba) you really have to watch where and when you're going somewhere, especially by yourself or as a couple or even a small group. I'd really like to go to Latin America for instance (probably Mexico due to cheap flights). But all that puts me off. I'm not interested in Asia (perhaps in India), just to let you know to focus on other continents when you write your posts ;)

I'd like to hear some first hand experiences, I know there's lots of ppl traveling a lot, like holgs etc.

Been to Mexico a few times. I think they have a love/hate relationship with the Yanks but being from England all they ever wanted to talk about were the Beatles! Mexico was ok and the people were very friendly. Been to many countries. India is hard to beat. Thailand is too commercial now, check out the countries next door like Vietnam or Burma. But closer to home (for you), when I was 18 I strapped a tent, sleeping bag and a few saucepans to the back of my GS1000 Suzuki and spend 6 glorious weeks travelling around Europe with some friends. Got arrested twice in France, a police road block in Germany and other unmentionable acts and crimes - but it was a great experience and very cheap, living mainly on caught fish/corn on the cob, bread and cheap red wine! Shame they didn't have digital cameras in those days.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 04, 2012, 05:23
I'm listening to ppl traveling to 3rd world countries how stiff that has become. You easily spend 3-3,5k on Cuba or in Brazil in a couple of weeks. That's 3 times more you'd typically spend there 5 or 10 years ago. The same goes for Asia, Thailand for example, prices got doubled in the last 5 years, at least alcoholic drinks cost the same as in Europe (because Asians can't handle liquor). So you actually pay 500-1500 for a plane ticket to enjoy yourself and throw your money at everything because it's so cheap, just to realize everything costs the same or even more as in most EU countries. And there's no real problem with crime in Europe, you can't say it's dangerous whereas if you travel to any Latin American country (except for Cuba) you really have to watch where and when you're going somewhere, especially by yourself or as a couple or even a small group. I'd really like to go to Latin America for instance (probably Mexico due to cheap flights). But all that puts me off. I'm not interested in Asia (perhaps in India), just to let you know to focus on other continents when you write your posts ;)

I'd like to hear some first hand experiences, I know there's lots of ppl traveling a lot, like holgs etc.

Sounds like a neverending adventure. But, have you been in an of those countries lately, that is in the last couple of years?. Things seem to be changing rapidly, costs go up all the time, while our standard of living in Europe is going down. And then there are drug wars in Mexico etc. I read an article a few months ago about murder rates. It was 18 per 100.000 citizens in Mexico, but it was as high as 50 for Guatemala :o. USA is at 6 and Europe is at 2 (or 1, not sure).
Been to Mexico a few times. I think they have a love/hate relationship with the Yanks but being from England all they ever wanted to talk about were the Beatles! Mexico was ok and the people were very friendly. Been to many countries. India is hard to beat. Thailand is too commercial now, check out the countries next door like Vietnam or Burma. But closer to home (for you), when I was 18 I strapped a tent, sleeping bag and a few saucepans to the back of my GS1000 Suzuki and spend 6 glorious weeks travelling around Europe with some friends. Got arrested twice in France, a police road block in Germany and other unmentionable acts and crimes - but it was a great experience and very cheap, living mainly on caught fish/corn on the cob, bread and cheap red wine! Shame they didn't have digital cameras in those days.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: qwerty on May 04, 2012, 05:31
I think your not comparing apples with apples when you say that Thailand etc is as expensive as travelling in Europe. Sure if your sitting by the pool sipping cocktails it can be expensive but public transport, local food, entry to tourist sites etc much more affordable.


Just got back from Vietnam and Laos this morning, it was unreal.

Also how much are you taking into account the depreciation of the US dollar and Euro ?
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 04, 2012, 05:46
I think your not comparing apples with apples when you say that Thailand etc is as expensive as travelling in Europe. Sure if your sitting by the pool sipping cocktails it can be expensive but public transport, local food, entry to tourist sites etc much more affordable.


Just got back from Vietnam and Laos this morning, it was unreal.

Also how much are you taking into account the depreciation of the US dollar and Euro ?


I would say I am. I spent 1k for 2 weeks in Spain (because I am from Europe and plain tickets cost me 70 or so). And I was constantly eating out, I was eating good, I was drunk almost every day and we (2 of us), rented a car and drove around the whole country. And Spain is not considered an inexpensive country to travel to. But if you look around and ask hotel employees (well if they speak English, most of them don't, or at least don't want to) you can drink sangrias/beer for 1, eat delicius tostadas (toasts) or montaditos (small sandwiches) for 1, while daily menus are 8 in many cities. The only cities that are really expensive are Madrid and coastline cities (Malaga is really super expensive, even more than Madrid and Barca). And even in those cities that particular chain of restaurants has their joints where almost everything costs 1.

Here's the proof, a photo taken in Sevilla (I felt like being in a 3rd world country because of the ridiculously low prices)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/70xook.jpg)

And these mouthwatering delicious gourmet sandwiches (pintxos) cost 1,8 a piece. Not cheap, but worth every cent, so incredibly delicious
(http://i48.tinypic.com/15po9d4.jpg)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: ProImage on May 04, 2012, 05:49
The Depths of the Amazon jungle! Can you imagine the wildlife :)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: qwerty on May 04, 2012, 06:12
I think your not comparing apples with apples when you say that Thailand etc is as expensive as travelling in Europe. Sure if your sitting by the pool sipping cocktails it can be expensive but public transport, local food, entry to tourist sites etc much more affordable.


Just got back from Vietnam and Laos this morning, it was unreal.

Also how much are you taking into account the depreciation of the US dollar and Euro ?


I would say I am. I spent 1k for 2 weeks in Spain (because I am from Europe and plain tickets cost me 70 or so). And I was constantly eating out, I was eating good, I was drunk almost every day and we (2 of us), rented a car and drove around the whole country. And Spain is not considered an inexpensive country to travel to. But if you look around and ask hotel employees (well if they speak English, most of them don't, or at least don't want to) you can drink sangrias/beer for 1, eat delicius tostadas (toasts) or montaditos (small sandwiches) for 1, while daily menus are 8 in many cities. The only cities that are really expensive are Madrid and coastline cities (Malaga is really super expensive, even more than Madrid and Barca). And even in those cities that particular chain of restaurants has their joints where almost everything costs 1.

Here's the proof, a photo taken in Sevilla (I felt like being in a 3rd world country because of the ridiculously low prices)
([url]http://i50.tinypic.com/70xook.jpg[/url])

And these mouthwatering delicious gourmet sandwiches (pintxos) cost 1,8 a piece. Not cheap, but worth every cent, so incredibly delicious
([url]http://i48.tinypic.com/15po9d4.jpg[/url])


I travelled in Spain and Portugal, great part of the world, definitely more affordable parts of Europe.

If you use the same "local" knowledge type spending habits your talking about I think you'll find that South East Asia would run at much cheaper than what your talking about in Europe excluding things such as air flights.

Can you tell me where to buy beer from a bar for 1 euro in Norway ?

For example Vietnam.
glass of local tap beer 4000D  = 20 cents   
Bowl of Pho (noodles and beef) = 15000D = 75 cents
Air conditioned car with private driver for site seeing for 6 hours = 20-30USD

Europe and Asia are both so big and diverse that we could go on forever saying which ones cheaper or more expensive.
eg Spain versus Japan    Sweden versus Vietnam. India versus Switzerland

I think we should both agree that there are great things to see all over the world and they can be done affordably if you go to the effort to find out how and have enough time and self will to do it cheaper. Obviously being able to speak the local language gives you a great step ahead.

Anyway you said you weren't interested in Asia and I haven't been to Central or South America or Africa so I can't contribute any more.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 04, 2012, 06:49
I travelled in Spain and Portugal, great part of the world, definitely more affordable parts of Europe.

If you use the same "local" knowledge type spending habits your talking about I think you'll find that South East Asia would run at much cheaper than what your talking about in Europe excluding things such as air flights.

Can you tell me where to buy beer from a bar for 1 euro in Norway ?

For example Vietnam.
glass of local tap beer 4000D  = 20 cents   
Bowl of Pho (noodles and beef) = 15000D = 75 cents
Air conditioned car with private driver for site seeing for 6 hours = 20-30USD

Europe and Asia are both so big and diverse that we could go on forever saying which ones cheaper or more expensive.
eg Spain versus Japan    Sweden versus Vietnam. India versus Switzerland

I think we should both agree that there are great things to see all over the world and they can be done affordably if you go to the effort to find out how and have enough time and self will to do it cheaper. Obviously being able to speak the local language gives you a great step ahead.

Anyway you said you weren't interested in Asia and I haven't been to Central or South America or Africa so I can't contribute any more.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do :) .

Looks like Vietnam is still cheap, but then again if you account in an extra 600-700 (if you get such a good price) for plane tickets, then you're going to spend approx. the same amount of money as in Europe. But you'll see many new things, which is the main point. Well, visiting exotic places, on the other side of the world for 2k for 2-3 weeks is. I really can't spend 3,5k.

Tnx for your posts, they were very informative and helpful.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Digital66 on May 04, 2012, 11:02
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

And regarding crime... there are dangerous areas in every country (yours included).
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: gostwyck on May 04, 2012, 11:30
Thailand is still very cheap if you know where to go or more particularly where to avoid. Basically the north is cheap and south of Bangkok it gets progressively more expensive until you reach Phuket where prices, relatively speaking, are extortionate. Yes, prices have gone up in the last few years but no more than other countries. Have you been to France recently? Ouch!
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: borg on May 04, 2012, 11:41
Just wait! 
Likley, even yours country may become 3rd world...!
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: cathyslife on May 04, 2012, 11:53
Just wait! 
Likley, even yours country may become 3rd world...!

So what would be the politically correct term to use for those countries? I understand that apparently people that live in those countries take offense to the term, but as far as I know, when I say a third world country, I mean one where the majority of the population are lower class or poor. Where the people that run the country are filthy stinking rich. Where the internet is still dial up. Where some villages don't have running water or sewers. Not any kind of negative statement against the people, but rather their living conditions and economic state.

Lighten up. Different terms mean different things to different people, sometimes they are said without malice or intended as a derogatory insult.

And Borg you are so right. I totally see the US becoming a third world nation. That being used in the sense that the majority of the population won't be able to find a job and make a living and will reach poverty level, and the major corporations and executives will continue to squeeze every last dime from the minions so they can continue to live in their luxurious lifestyle. Unlike some, I don't take offense that you say that.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: gostwyck on May 04, 2012, 12:03
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

What is the politically correct term in 2012 then? It's pointless using an expression like 'developing countries' as, last time I checked, all countries are 'developing' and have been since humans wandered out of Africa.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 04, 2012, 13:21
Just wait! 
Likley, even yours country may become 3rd world...!

So what would be the politically correct term to use for those countries? I understand that apparently people that live in those countries take offense to the term, but as far as I know, when I say a third world country, I mean one where the majority of the population are lower class or poor. Where the people that run the country are filthy stinking rich. Where the internet is still dial up. Where some villages don't have running water or sewers. Not any kind of negative statement against the people, but rather their living conditions and economic state.

Lighten up. Different terms mean different things to different people, sometimes they are said without malice or intended as a derogatory insult.

And Borg you are so right. I totally see the US becoming a third world nation. That being used in the sense that the majority of the population won't be able to find a job and make a living and will reach poverty level, and the major corporations and executives will continue to squeeze every last dime from the minions so they can continue to live in their luxurious lifestyle. Unlike some, I don't take offense that you say that.

You beat me to it in your last paragraph (I've bolded the text that relates). Same goes for Europe as well, or better said it's soon going to be like that, the huge social differences etc (vanishing middle class and growing lower class). Well it already is like that in Greece, where every 10th citizen of Athens comes to the centers that are distributing free food.

When it comes to my country, a disaster, complete economic meltdown is predicted within a couple of years. In times like that, I'm so happy to be making money off of global, not local industry, taking advantage of global markets. And it's the right place to mention America again. Thanks to its economic recuperation things are not looking that grim, there's still a big market for MS in the USA
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 04, 2012, 13:26
Thailand is still very cheap if you know where to go or more particularly where to avoid. Basically the north is cheap and south of Bangkok it gets progressively more expensive until you reach Phuket where prices, relatively speaking, are extortionate. Yes, prices have gone up in the last few years but no more than other countries. Have you been to France recently? Ouch!

Any other part of the world you've traveled to lately. As I said, I'm not really interested in Asia. Perhaps I'd go to India and I'd definitely go to Iran, if it weren't under constant threat of attack by a couple of countries.

I'd really like to travel outside of Europe more and not limit myself to one continent and North Africa...
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: borg on May 04, 2012, 14:42
Hey guys...
I'm not serious with my the statement ...
I forgot to put smilies at the end ... :P
I just wanted to draw a line on a sarcastic way between today's crisis around the World and that economic category such as "3rd world" ...

Of course, there is no other official  or appropriate name for a such big and negative difference in economic standard for those countries...
Regards!  ;)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: cascoly on May 04, 2012, 17:29
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

What is the politically correct term in 2012 then? It's pointless using an expression like 'developing countries' as, last time I checked, all countries are 'developing' and have been since humans wandered out of Africa.

3rd world still retains whiffs of colonialism and condescension  and since the 2nd world has collapsed, it also doesn't make much sense anymore.
 countries like India which might have been called 3rd world now have over 200 million in the middle class and along with china will continue to grow

the G8 countries are now the G20. globalization is real and expanding

so, yes, it is time to retire the phrase; 'emerging nations', 'developing nations' are much more neutral and less patronizing
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Mantis on May 04, 2012, 17:44
The Depths of the Amazon jungle! Can you imagine the wildlife :)

Been there and it was nice if you can handle the bugs, and, if you are on a crappy little screen covered live aboard and can handle bilge rats and sweat you are good to go.  Honestly I heard a lot of animals in the trees but couldn't see a lot.  But we did hunt Caiman at night...like small crocs.  Went to photograph pink river dolphins.

Galapagos
Honduras
India
Egypt
Indonesia
Micronesia
Baja
Malaysia

These are a few places I've been but the cost is what you make it and so is the safety.  Good third world trips require planning and knowledge, so it's hard to answer your question.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dange
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 04, 2012, 18:39
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

And regarding crime... there are dangerous areas in every country (yours included).

He did say it without malice, I think. I'm still suprised when I see the term these days, as the term has been frowned upon for years now. Maybe it's still widely used and accepted in some countries, and although I still occasionally see it written, I haven't heard anyone say it probably for well over a decade, maybe even two.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: gostwyck on May 04, 2012, 18:45
3rd world still retains whiffs of colonialism and condescension  and since the 2nd world has collapsed, it also doesn't make much sense anymore.
 countries like India which might have been called 3rd world now have over 200 million in the middle class and along with china will continue to grow

the G8 countries are now the G20. globalization is real and expanding

so, yes, it is time to retire the phrase; 'emerging nations', 'developing nations' are much more neutral and less patronizing

Isn't 'developing nations' equally condescending and patronizing? It suggests that 'proper countries' have already fully developed and they're sort of marking time in a kindly way whilst waiting for their less capable counterparts to be helped along.

I know of no country that is 'fully developed'. All countries are developing, it's just that some are ahead of others. It is all just snaphots in time. Thailand today, for example, is vastly more developed than any Western country was even 70 years ago. In some ways it is actually more developed than Western nations in the social cohesion, lack of unemployment and low crime rate. As a Westerner who spends much time there I feel we could learn much from them. They may be following us to some degree, but boy are they learning from our mistakes. I'm sure the same could be said of many other 'developing nations', so to speak.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dange
Post by: wut on May 04, 2012, 18:52
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term.  

And regarding crime... there are dangerous areas in every country (yours included).

He did say it without malice, I think. I'm still suprised when I see the term these days, as the term has been frowned upon for years now. Maybe it's still widely used and accepted in some countries, and although I still occasionally see it written, I haven't heard anyone say it probably for well over a decade, maybe even two.

Of course I meant it without malice. Why would I want to go there otherwise? I dunno, it's used widely in Europe in I don't really know any other term then developing countries, which is not used that often and at least to me, it sounds like it could offend more ppl. Not that I care about political correctness - it's ironically usually used by ppl and nations that have done most harm to certain types of ppl/part of population, nations where slavery was legal in the 20th century and segregation only 50 years ago (this really sounds unbelievable to me:o). You don't have to be politically correct if you don't have a guilty conscience ;)

ETA: gostwyck already beat me to it regarding 3rd world/developing countries. As usually, his explanation paints a better picture ;)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dange
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 04, 2012, 19:01
@Wut Well I guess u won't be using it in another thread then.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Mantis on May 04, 2012, 19:10
3rd world still retains whiffs of colonialism and condescension  and since the 2nd world has collapsed, it also doesn't make much sense anymore.
 countries like India which might have been called 3rd world now have over 200 million in the middle class and along with china will continue to grow

the G8 countries are now the G20. globalization is real and expanding

so, yes, it is time to retire the phrase; 'emerging nations', 'developing nations' are much more neutral and less patronizing

Isn't 'developing nations' equally condescending and patronizing? It suggests that 'proper countries' have already fully developed and they're sort of marking time in a kindly way whilst waiting for their less capable counterparts to be helped along.

I know of no country that is 'fully developed'. All countries are developing, it's just that some are ahead of others. It is all just snaphots in time. Thailand today, for example, is vastly more developed than any Western country was even 70 years ago. In some ways it is actually more developed than Western nations in the social cohesion, lack of unemployment and low crime rate. As a Westerner who spends much time there I feel we could learn much from them. They may be following us to some degree, but boy are they learning from our mistakes. I'm sure the same could be said of many other 'developing nations', so to speak.

Call it what you want, the experience of a less developed country, for me, has been a joy.  I find that, as a whole, the places I've been have had very friendly natives, warm residents and I've made some lasting friends.  Many years ago in Cairo Egypt I was introduced to * raw oysters by an Egyptian physician.  We sat on the sidewalk of a small diner during the evening, warm but relaxing. I was flying back to the states the next day.  I got such bad food poisoning during my flight I thought I was a dead man.  But Omar the doc and I now laugh about it years later, like 30 years later.  Traveling to countries with varying levels of condition, economically and culturally, is the reward. It can never be replaced and is, to me, worth every dime I spend.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: qwerty on May 04, 2012, 19:14
3rd world still retains whiffs of colonialism and condescension  and since the 2nd world has collapsed, it also doesn't make much sense anymore.
 countries like India which might have been called 3rd world now have over 200 million in the middle class and along with china will continue to grow

the G8 countries are now the G20. globalization is real and expanding

so, yes, it is time to retire the phrase; 'emerging nations', 'developing nations' are much more neutral and less patronizing

Isn't 'developing nations' equally condescending and patronizing? It suggests that 'proper countries' have already fully developed and they're sort of marking time in a kindly way whilst waiting for their less capable counterparts to be helped along.

I know of no country that is 'fully developed'. All countries are developing, it's just that some are ahead of others. It is all just snaphots in time. Thailand today, for example, is vastly more developed than any Western country was even 70 years ago. In some ways it is actually more developed than Western nations in the social cohesion, lack of unemployment and low crime rate. As a Westerner who spends much time there I feel we could learn much from them. They may be following us to some degree, but boy are they learning from our mistakes. I'm sure the same could be said of many other 'developing nations', so to speak.

In regards to social cohesion.
You must have missed the weekly bombings and shootings in the southern provinces. Or red shirt protests in Bangkok.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 04, 2012, 19:18
Traveling to countries with varying levels of condition, economically and culturally, is the reward. It can never be replaced and is, to me, worth every dime I spend.

Touche!
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: gostwyck on May 04, 2012, 19:47
In regards to social cohesion.
You must have missed the weekly bombings and shootings in the southern provinces. Or red shirt protests in Bangkok.

Yeah, we've had none of that sort of thing in the Western world over the last 40 years or so have we? Think IRA, ETA, PLO, Al Quaeda, Bader-Meinhof, Unabomber, etc, etc.

In terms of 'social cohesion' I was really thinking of the fact that families tend to look after all of their members from the cradle to the grave. They don't rely on the welfare or benefits system (because it it barely exists) and is certainly not a 'lifestyle choice' as it has become in the UK for example. Essentially all citizens are 'socially responsible' and don't expect the state to support them. Their own famiies will support them for sure in times of need but, guess what, they won't put up with someone choosing to do nothing for years at a time (let alone generations).
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 05, 2012, 02:56
Where the people that run the country are filthy stinking rich. Where the internet is still dial up. Where some villages don't have running water or sewers. Not any kind of negative statement against the people, but rather their living conditions and economic state.

dial-up ? absolutely nowhere in 2012.
even Laos and Cambodia have 3G since a couple years and it also works like a charm, free wi-fi in any cheap guesthouse, fast ADSL if you rent a house.

if we talk of living conditions that's another complex story, first of all in most of the cases they are pretty happy with their lifestyle and can't see any problem using water tanks, diesel generators, coal, and living in a bamboo hut surrounded by piles of garbage, cats, and stray dogs.

ohh and as much as they look poor they all have a couple mobile phones with 3G to watch youtube or porn and download mp3...
what is poor .. i don't know ... they always look more happy than us "rich" westerners, their motto is "que sera sera" and tomorrow is another day ...if crap happens their big families help each other, they never end up living under a bridge like in the west, and they never have to beg a bowl of rice in a buddha temple unless they're mutilate or orphans.

sorry guys but reality is so much different from what you're discussing here, i currently live in a shithole place in south east asia and i learnt a thing or two about the so called "third world".
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 05, 2012, 03:09
sooo ... traveling in cheap third world countries ?

i would say India, Nepal, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, and most of rural and western China, i could also add part of Indonesia, some areas of Philippines, and Myanmar if we exclude Rangoon.

Thailand is quite expensive nowadays but at least there are many photographic opportunities, Malaysia instead is expensive and doesn't offer much.

Singapore is becoming quickly on par with europe pricewise, and HongKong even worse.
Indonesia is cheap and colorful, Philippines are basically a shithole but very photogenic.

India is amazing if you have the guts to like India, same for Nepal, but these places are NOT for everybody !
Myanmar is not so cheap but worth every penny for many good reasons.

Laos quickly becoming a disneyland, Cambodia too but it depends where you go, Vietnam still king of scams but getting so much better in every other department compared to years ago.

and now China .. the best of the best in my opinion, there's simply everything in china, but it's no more the bargain it was until 2008 ! Tibet is also closed to foreigners unless you go with an expensive tour group and tibet wasnt cheap even in 2006 so dont expect to scrap the bottom of the barrel like in Kathmandu !

Mongolia was relatively cheap in  2008, at least Ulaan Baatar, but going around can be 50 euro/each just for a 4x4 ride on unpaved roads, add absurd prices to sleep in tents and eat crap food, and the whole scenery is absolutely identical to northern Xinjiang where it's 3x times cheaper to say the least.

Conclusion : there's plenty of cheap countries in east asia, but it's up to you to be a cheap charlie otherwise you can easily end up spending more than in London if you only eat western food and sleep in 4 stars hotels etc !

can't see the reason also to waste 700$ for a return flight just to stay there 2 weeks, makes no sense, and what do you expect to see in just 2 weeks by the way ?
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 05, 2012, 04:13
India is amazing if you have the guts to like India, same for Nepal, but these places are NOT for everybody !

can't see the reason also to waste 700$ for a return flight just to stay there 2 weeks, makes no sense, and what do you expect to see in just 2 weeks by the way ?

Could you drop a few lines on why India is not for everybody? As I said, out of the whole Asia, India is the only one that interests me (and I'm not that sure anymore lately, since I've read an article written by a photographer a while ago).

I don't hike, walk through the jungle for 3 days just to see some sight. Discovering nature etc doesn't interest me at all. I love going to the cities, check them out, observe how ppl live etc. I enjoy just sitting in a bar and looking around, having a good time with friends and relax. Sure, I go sightseeing as well, but that's really not a priority. In short, I go there without plans and just go with the flow. Perhaps I said only 2 weeks, because I'm not used going on long trips, since I only traveled around Europe, where 2 weeks is plenty if you visit just one country. Countries are small in Europe. But then again, you can see more in Venice that in country with 100+ million inhabitants. I was in NY once too, just for five days and yes, I'd definitely stay there for an extra week or 2. I'm going to Morocco soon and that's it for my trips outside of Europe.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 05, 2012, 04:28
Australia and New Zealand!  fantastic countries,  so is the Scotish highlands, the isles, etc.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 05, 2012, 04:32
Australia and New Zealand!  fantastic countries,  so is the Scotish highlands, the isles, etc.

Yeah I've heard so many nice things about NZ, that it's absolutely gorgeous. But I'll have to find 2k just for the plane tickets and lots more for spending there. And they're not 3rd world countries either ;D

Lagereek, you'd be a great salesman. You'd try to sell a Porsche to someone who's looking for a 30k car :D
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 05, 2012, 07:36
Australia and New Zealand!  fantastic countries,  so is the Scotish highlands, the isles, etc.

Yeah I've heard so many nice things about NZ, that it's absolutely gorgeous. But I'll have to find 2k just for the plane tickets and lots more for spending there. And they're not 3rd world countries either ;D

Lagereek, you'd be a great salesman. You'd try to sell a Porsche to someone who's looking for a 30k car :D

trouble is, these 3-world countries are overrated, photography wise, that is, exept maybe Thailand and Malaysia. I have travelled around Africa, etc and the guidance is sometimes non existant, accomodation is sometimes terrible and there is no security what so ever. It looks very nice on postcards but once you get there its a differant story,  believe me.

If you can get the money, trust me, New Zealand and Australia, you will come back and in no time, the pics will have paid for the trip. Thats the general idea, isnt it?

Closer at hand you have the Scotish Highlands, Cornwall down in the south west of Britain, Norway ( fantastic scenery),  these are highly commercial areas from where pics are selling like crazy. :)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: rubyroo on May 05, 2012, 07:45
Ahhhh Cornwall.  Beautiful.  Always feels like home to me, somehow.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 05, 2012, 07:54
Ahhhh Cornwall.  Beautiful.  Always feels like home to me, somehow.

Actually, Cornwall is beautiful. Went there a couple of times when I was a kid, it was really sunny both times, so felt like another country  :D
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: velocicarpo on May 05, 2012, 08:50
Well, since I am from latin america, I can just recommend you to travel as much as possible here. The thing with third world and first world doesn`t really make much sense anymore. It is not like everyone is after your money because you are a rich westerner. If you life in Sao Paulo and work in some advertising or a a professional you easily earn a lot more money than in a european country and living standards in cities like Buenos Aires, Santiago, etc. are very high meanwhile. They still have some "classic" third world problems, but IMHO the west is getting them too - now in the crisis - and, as someone else here said: they are learning fast and give a nice alternative route to western mentality.

In practical meanings: you have to be careful in every big city and check the neighborhoods where you plan on going/shooting upfront. It can be dangerous if you behave like a clueless gringo. Some Cities are more complicated than others and yes, there are problems, but nothing what should frighten you or make you not travel. I live here all my live and never happened anything to me personally, although I know others who had problems.

You should definitely see Rio de Janeiro, the nature and beaches of Bahia, Moro de Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires (a amaaaazing world class city), Mendoza, the Falls of Iguacu, the desert of Atacama, Ushuaia, the glaciers of Calefate, etc. etc. There is sooo much to see and I would be surprised if you would feel insecure here.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 05, 2012, 10:54
Ahhhh Cornwall.  Beautiful.  Always feels like home to me, somehow.

Just think of the little pirate villages like Mevagissey, Polperro, Cadgewith, etc. Beautyful and with a full pirate history.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 05, 2012, 10:55
Well, since I am from latin america, I can just recommend you to travel as much as possible here. The thing with third world and first world doesn`t really make much sense anymore. It is not like everyone is after your money because you are a rich westerner. If you life in Sao Paulo and work in some advertising or a a professional you easily earn a lot more money than in a european country and living standards in cities like Buenos Aires, Santiago, etc. are very high meanwhile. They still have some "classic" third world problems, but IMHO the west is getting them too - now in the crisis - and, as someone else here said: they are learning fast and give a nice alternative route to western mentality.

In practical meanings: you have to be careful in every big city and check the neighborhoods where you plan on going/shooting upfront. It can be dangerous if you behave like a clueless gringo. Some Cities are more complicated than others and yes, there are problems, but nothing what should frighten you or make you not travel. I live here all my live and never happened anything to me personally, although I know others who had problems.

You should definitely see Rio de Janeiro, the nature and beaches of Bahia, Moro de Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires (a amaaaazing world class city), Mendoza, the Falls of Iguacu, the desert of Atacama, Ushuaia, the glaciers of Calefate, etc. etc. There is sooo much to see and I would be surprised if you would feel insecure here.

I agree, latin America, south america is great, some stunning scenery.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: rubyroo on May 05, 2012, 12:24
Just think of the little pirate villages like Mevagissey, Polperro, Cadgewith, etc. Beautyful and with a full pirate history.


Ah yes, I've been to the first two, but I don't know Cadgewith.  Must check that out on next visit if I get a chance.

Sean would love it there, he could speak like a pirate every day  :D

Nice video of views across Cornwall here:

http://youtu.be/boNT46BMyWg (http://youtu.be/boNT46BMyWg)

@Microstock Posts.  I think it feels like another country whatever the weather.  Just gorgeous.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: cascoly on May 05, 2012, 12:57


Call it what you want, the experience of a less developed country, for me, has been a joy.  I find that, as a whole, the places I've been have had very friendly natives, warm residents and I've made some lasting friends.  Many years ago in Cairo Egypt I was introduced to  raw oysters by an Egyptian physician.  We sat on the sidewalk of a small diner during the evening, warm but relaxing. I was flying back to the states the next day.  I got such bad food poisoning during my flight I thought I was a dead man.  But Omar the doc and I now laugh about it years later, like 30 years later.  Traveling to countries with varying levels of condition, economically and culturally, is the reward. It can never be replaced and is, to me, worth every dime I spend.

i agree completely - i've had nothing but positive experiences over many years visiting India [6 trips], Turkey [6 trips], Central Asia / Soviet Union in 1984, China, Nepal [led 4 trekking trips], Burma, Peru, Syria, Egypt, Morocco and Iran  - same as your reports, the outstanding memories are the people met informally over tea or meals.  
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 05, 2012, 13:01
Just think of the little pirate villages like Mevagissey, Polperro, Cadgewith, etc. Beautyful and with a full pirate history.


Ah yes, I've been to the first two, but I don't know Cadgewith.  Must check that out on next visit if I get a chance.

Sean would love it there, he could speak like a pirate every day  :D

Nice video of views across Cornwall here:

[url]http://youtu.be/boNT46BMyWg[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/boNT46BMyWg[/url])

@Microstock Posts.  I think it feels like another country whatever the weather.  Just gorgeous.


What a lovely video and the MUSIC!  oh man I am going there this summer, for sure. I have been there a thousand times, even stayed there for 8 months and I never get enough of it. Its not just the scenery, its also the incredible history.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 05, 2012, 13:52
Australia and New Zealand!  fantastic countries,  so is the Scotish highlands, the isles, etc.

Yeah I've heard so many nice things about NZ, that it's absolutely gorgeous. But I'll have to find 2k just for the plane tickets and lots more for spending there. And they're not 3rd world countries either ;D

Lagereek, you'd be a great salesman. You'd try to sell a Porsche to someone who's looking for a 30k car :D

trouble is, these 3-world countries are overrated, photography wise, that is, exept maybe Thailand and Malaysia. I have travelled around Africa, etc and the guidance is sometimes non existant, accomodation is sometimes terrible and there is no security what so ever. It looks very nice on postcards but once you get there its a differant story,  believe me.

If you can get the money, trust me, New Zealand and Australia, you will come back and in no time, the pics will have paid for the trip. Thats the general idea, isnt it?

Closer at hand you have the Scotish Highlands, Cornwall down in the south west of Britain, Norway ( fantastic scenery),  these are highly commercial areas from where pics are selling like crazy. :)

Well not really, photography for me, while visiting these countries really is secondary. It's about the travel itself and enjoying myself to the max. I'm no good in architecture and landscape photography (from what I can see neither sells well on micros unless they're truly exceptional) and I hate lugging around all that gear (a DSLR and couple of lenses is too much for me, I hate carrying it around for days, weeks). I always borrow a PEN and just enjoy taking photos whenever I feel like it. And I don't even notice it hangs on my shoulder since a kit weighs less than 1/2 kg. I took my DSLR with a couple of lenses with me a few times, once to Barcelona, then to Lisbon, Venice and Sicily. I've sold an EL and made a few dozen bucks with non EL DLs (but I also uploaded just a dozen photos or so). Really not worth it. I get a few times more from a single lifestyle shoot, with no hassle in an hour, not hours every day for weeks. So after all that, I decided to not worry about MS while traveling. I enjoy it so much more that way ;) . But yes, I know that ppl that do it properly earn a lot of money from it (holgs etc), I'd say in most cases much more to just cover the expenses. Everybody should just do what they do best and enjoy (if possible). I'm glad I found what I like to shot.

And yes, I know what you mean, as I said I'm going to Morocco and I wonder what are the hygienic standards like (I heard from lots of ppl they're terrible). I don't care if the streets are filled with filth, crap and garbage, but I do mind getting dirty forks and plates in restaurants or stinking sheets in hotels for instance. So I'll decide about India, when I return from Morocco (I know it's even worse down there).
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 05, 2012, 13:54
Could you drop a few lines on why India is not for everybody? As I said, out of the whole Asia, India is the only one that interests me (and I'm not that sure anymore lately, since I've read an article written by a photographer a while ago).

I don't hike, walk through the jungle for 3 days just to see some sight. Discovering nature etc doesn't interest me at all. I love going to the cities, check them out, observe how ppl live etc. I enjoy just sitting in a bar and looking around, having a good time with friends and relax. Sure, I go sightseeing as well, but that's really not a priority. In short, I go there without plans and just go with the flow. Perhaps I said only 2 weeks, because I'm not used going on long trips, since I only traveled around Europe, where 2 weeks is plenty if you visit just one country. Countries are small in Europe. But then again, you can see more in Venice that in country with 100+ million inhabitants. I was in NY once too, just for five days and yes, I'd definitely stay there for an extra week or 2. I'm going to Morocco soon and that's it for my trips outside of Europe.

India is simply the worst sh-ithole in asia, you will see what i mean, you will see ... hahaha :)

my only suggestion is escaping as soon as you can from the big megacities and sticking with medium-small towns.
however, no matter where you go, you can literally make wonderful photos at just every step, there's no other colorful place as india.

i'm also a city photographer, i don't care about shooting landscapes apart rare cases, for city action india will not disappoint you !
for anything else, hmm up to you ... the photos you see around in any RM agency are pretty much representative of what's going on : extreme poverty, mutilates, sh-it everywhere, rubbish everywhere, diseases, people sleeping on the road, nasty smells, holy cows taking a dump, and even rotten corpses flowing in rivers hahaha ... that's just the start actually, there's much more but i don't want to scare you.

2 weeks is wasted for a huge place like india.
in 2 weeks you could do Delhi, Jaipur, Varanasi, all on a rush, but forget about smaller towns nearby which are maybe even more interesting for photography.

i disagree also about 2 weeks being "plenty" for a country like France or Germany ... ??? not to mention Italy that as you noticed can be overwhelming... too many things packed in one place, and what you do if it starts raining or the wheather suc-ks ?

which is true also for india, if you catch the monsoon season, or if you get stuck for whatever unplanned reason, india it's a mess, don't think you can plan too much or book everything online, you will only end up scammed, if you like ripoffs india is the best place in asia along with Vietnam and dont worry they will come to you, no need to move a finger :)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 05, 2012, 13:58
Just think of the little pirate villages like Mevagissey, Polperro, Cadgewith, etc. Beautyful and with a full pirate history.


Ah yes, I've been to the first two, but I don't know Cadgewith.  Must check that out on next visit if I get a chance.

Sean would love it there, he could speak like a pirate every day  :D

Nice video of views across Cornwall here:

[url]http://youtu.be/boNT46BMyWg[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/boNT46BMyWg[/url])

@Microstock Posts.  I think it feels like another country whatever the weather.  Just gorgeous.


What a lovely video and the MUSIC!  oh man I am going there this summer, for sure. I have been there a thousand times, even stayed there for 8 months and I never get enough of it. Its not just the scenery, its also the incredible history.


Wow great video! Thanks. Amazing, I haven't thought of Cornwall for years. 1 minute 11 seconds to 1 minute 15 seconds looks really familiar.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 05, 2012, 14:06
Well, since I am from latin america, I can just recommend you to travel as much as possible here. The thing with third world and first world doesn`t really make much sense anymore. It is not like everyone is after your money because you are a rich westerner. If you life in Sao Paulo and work in some advertising or a a professional you easily earn a lot more money than in a european country and living standards in cities like Buenos Aires, Santiago, etc. are very high meanwhile. They still have some "classic" third world problems, but IMHO the west is getting them too - now in the crisis - and, as someone else here said: they are learning fast and give a nice alternative route to western mentality.

In practical meanings: you have to be careful in every big city and check the neighborhoods where you plan on going/shooting upfront. It can be dangerous if you behave like a clueless gringo. Some Cities are more complicated than others and yes, there are problems, but nothing what should frighten you or make you not travel. I live here all my live and never happened anything to me personally, although I know others who had problems.

You should definitely see Rio de Janeiro, the nature and beaches of Bahia, Moro de Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires (a amaaaazing world class city), Mendoza, the Falls of Iguacu, the desert of Atacama, Ushuaia, the glaciers of Calefate, etc. etc. There is sooo much to see and I would be surprised if you would feel insecure here.

I sure do know about BRIC etc. And sure do know where Europe is heading. Greece has become a 3rd world country already. Are you from Brazil? I've heard terrible things regarding security over there. A friend that knows a photographer from Rio (or Sao Paulo, not really sure), told me how things look like. Wealthy ppl live behind double walls, that are 8m high with electrical fence on top of it and only one entry/exit for security reasons. When they get back home security personnel search the vehicle before letting them through the second gate, looking under the car in the trunk etc. Most wealthy ppl use choppers because of that. When they go to a mall they drive in a motorcade just like a member of the government, they go straight to the underground garage under the mall, they don't stop and security guards carry automatic weapons. Nobody stops at red lights (at night), everybody hides all valuables under the seats (handbags, phones etc), because if they spot something that peaks their interest, they just break your windows with a sledge hammer and take it. If you're unlucky, they take your life as well. Now, that's what I heard, not saying that's how it is, since I haven't been there. So how is it? As bad? And yes, I know there are soldiers on the streets of many other countries, like Egypt for instance, buses always get police escort etc.

And yes, I know it often really depends on how you behave. I'd really love to go to Mexico and Brazil, especially the latter, I love the mentality of the ppl, they're easy going, there are always parties on the streets, dancing etc. The climate is great, perfect really. The opposite of Asia, with reserved, pulled back ppl - and I know they're nice and smiling etc, but I just can't connect with their mentality and culture.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 05, 2012, 14:07
And yes, I know what you mean, as I said I'm going to Morocco and I wonder what are the hygienic standards like (I heard from lots of ppl they're terrible). I don't care if the streets are filled with filth, crap and garbage, but I do mind getting dirty forks and plates in restaurants or stinking sheets in hotels for instance. So I'll decide about India, when I return from Morocco (I know it's even worse down there).

never been to morocco but it can't be worse than india, nepal, rural china, cambodia ...

dirty forks and sheets are the norm unless you go in 4-5 stars hotels, not to mention cockroaches, and much more.
if this is a deal breaker i'm afraid you better skip india and surrounding altogether but let me say this is not the real issue, the real issue are the endless ripoffs and scams, sometimes even by fellow western expats !
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 05, 2012, 14:24
Could you drop a few lines on why India is not for everybody? As I said, out of the whole Asia, India is the only one that interests me (and I'm not that sure anymore lately, since I've read an article written by a photographer a while ago).

I don't hike, walk through the jungle for 3 days just to see some sight. Discovering nature etc doesn't interest me at all. I love going to the cities, check them out, observe how ppl live etc. I enjoy just sitting in a bar and looking around, having a good time with friends and relax. Sure, I go sightseeing as well, but that's really not a priority. In short, I go there without plans and just go with the flow. Perhaps I said only 2 weeks, because I'm not used going on long trips, since I only traveled around Europe, where 2 weeks is plenty if you visit just one country. Countries are small in Europe. But then again, you can see more in Venice that in country with 100+ million inhabitants. I was in NY once too, just for five days and yes, I'd definitely stay there for an extra week or 2. I'm going to Morocco soon and that's it for my trips outside of Europe.

India is simply the worst sh-ithole in asia, you will see what i mean, you will see ... hahaha :)

my only suggestion is escaping as soon as you can from the big megacities and sticking with medium-small towns.
however, no matter where you go, you can literally make wonderful photos at just every step, there's no other colorful place as india.

i'm also a city photographer, i don't care about shooting landscapes apart rare cases, for city action india will not disappoint you !
for anything else, hmm up to you ... the photos you see around in any RM agency are pretty much representative of what's going on : extreme poverty, mutilates, sh-it everywhere, rubbish everywhere, diseases, people sleeping on the road, nasty smells, holy cows taking a dump, and even rotten corpses flowing in rivers hahaha ... that's just the start actually, there's much more but i don't want to scare you.

2 weeks is wasted for a huge place like india.
in 2 weeks you could do Delhi, Jaipur, Varanasi, all on a rush, but forget about smaller towns nearby which are maybe even more interesting for photography.

i disagree also about 2 weeks being "plenty" for a country like France or Germany ... ??? not to mention Italy that as you noticed can be overwhelming... too many things packed in one place, and what you do if it starts raining or the wheather suc-ks ?

which is true also for india, if you catch the monsoon season, or if you get stuck for whatever unplanned reason, india it's a mess, don't think you can plan too much or book everything online, you will only end up scammed, if you like ripoffs india is the best place in asia along with Vietnam and dont worry they will come to you, no need to move a finger :)

Great post, very insightful. And colorful ;) . Well it looks like it's even worse than I thought and that some ppl say. What about the ppl besides the constant rip offs, hassle from beggars, cab drivers etc? Nothing similar to what Bollywood is showing us? Happy, optimistic, "all is well" ppl?

I dunno, 2 weeks were decent for Spain. I was in Barca once before, so I didn't visit again and I also had to skip Baskia (I'd love to go to Bilbao and around). Germany doesn't interest me at all, for that matter, I don't care for Northern Europe. I've been there many times on short trips though. Visited Photokina in Cologne, been in Munich, Hamburg etc. I've been in Holland, France (Paris and saw a dozen castles when I was a kid). It's the same thing as with Asia, the mentality that is not close to mine, I can't describe it any other way. And it's expensive to, especially Scandinavia, if you also want to drink a few beers now and then. But I absolutely love the Mediterranean, Spain is great, Italy too (even more to see, regarding sights and architecture), great food in both cases, but my fav is Sicily, I feel in love with it. The nicest, friendliest, coolest ppl in the world, it's unbelievable and unreal. Lots to see, to discover, great food, everything is so relaxed and easygoing. Nobody cares what kind of car he's driving, all cars are old, smaller and dented from all sides. Ppl rather go to a restaurant and enjoy themselves then buy a shiny new car. It's the absolute opposite of money driven western mentality. You see sights you can't see anywhere else in Europe. You can just buy yourself a 0,66l Moretti or Heineken for a couple of at Vucciria market in Palermo, sit in a bar and enjoy yourself. There are streets full of ppl, partying, the music is playing, barbecue is making delicious food (not hot dogs, burgers and similar junk food, but swordfish rolls etc). But yes, 2 weeks to really see everything, discover every corner isn't enough for big countries like France or Germany. But you can go a few times, it's not a problem if you're from Europe.

Your last paragraph is absolutely brilliant! ;D
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 05, 2012, 14:24
So how is it? As bad? And yes, I know there are soldiers on the streets of many other countries, like Egypt for instance, buses always get police escort etc.

actually i've heard so many horror stories also about asia and also about some european cities too.
as it turns out it's always up to you, if you keep a low profile, if you raise your antennas, if you dress cheap, i mean in asia of course you will be always a potential target no matter if you dress like a hobo but i can say that if you look like a cheap charlie it's very hard to get into troubles, growing a beard can also help in my experience as well as being big and tall.

i went shooting in some of the worst slums in asia and not only i'm still alive but i havent got a single scratch, i risked a bit sometimes, and it could have ended very bad in a couple cases but i know how to deal with these guys as long as they're sober.

it's very easy to get into troubles in some areas where they would sell their own mother for a few bucks but still they think twice before robbing or attacking a stranger, the real problem is if these guys are on drug or drunk so you better avoid such places by night and run away but this is also true for some posh areas as well after midnight, you can never know ... there are dead foreigners every week in thailand for instance, and so in the philippines, but very very few in china, japan, HK, singapore, malaysia ...

the worst sh-it i've seen in europe for instance was in Rotterdam, and the Amsterdam, and the suburbs of london and paris and berlin, i don't feel too much safe in europe actually, at least by night and indeed it's gonna get worse in places like Greece and Spain where people is now desperate for jobs and for money.

i mean, it's just a 2 minutes job robbing a tourist of his camera+lens, kicking him from behind, beating him up on the floor, and running away with 1000s of dollars in stolen gear.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 05, 2012, 14:26
And yes, I know what you mean, as I said I'm going to Morocco and I wonder what are the hygienic standards like (I heard from lots of ppl they're terrible). I don't care if the streets are filled with filth, crap and garbage, but I do mind getting dirty forks and plates in restaurants or stinking sheets in hotels for instance. So I'll decide about India, when I return from Morocco (I know it's even worse down there).

never been to morocco but it can't be worse than india, nepal, rural china, cambodia ...

dirty forks and sheets are the norm unless you go in 4-5 stars hotels, not to mention cockroaches, and much more.
if this is a deal breaker i'm afraid you better skip india and surrounding altogether but let me say this is not the real issue, the real issue are the endless ripoffs and scams, sometimes even by fellow western expats !

I plan to take a clean sheet with me to Morocco anyway. And you can always buy plastic forks and carry them around, drink straight from the bottle etc. I guess anything is possible if you want. I'd be willing to go through that, if I'd find the country fascinating
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: luissantos84 on May 05, 2012, 14:32
i mean, it's just a 2 minutes job robbing a tourist of his camera+lens, kicking him from behind, beating him up on the floor, and running away with 1000s of dollars in stolen gear.

how about insurance? not talking about the beating lol
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 05, 2012, 14:37
So how is it? As bad? And yes, I know there are soldiers on the streets of many other countries, like Egypt for instance, buses always get police escort etc.

actually i've heard so many horror stories also about asia and also about some european cities too.
as it turns out it's always up to you, if you keep a low profile, if you raise your antennas, if you dress cheap, i mean in asia of course you will be always a potential target no matter if you dress like a hobo but i can say that if you look like a cheap charlie it's very hard to get into troubles, growing a beard can also help in my experience as well as being big and tall.

i went shooting in some of the worst slums in asia and not only i'm still alive but i havent got a single scratch, i risked a bit sometimes, and it could have ended very bad in a couple cases but i know how to deal with these guys as long as they're sober.

it's very easy to get into troubles in some areas where they would sell their own mother for a few bucks but still they think twice before robbing or attacking a stranger, the real problem is if these guys are on drug or drunk so you better avoid such places by night and run away but this is also true for some posh areas as well after midnight, you can never know ... there are dead foreigners every week in thailand for instance, and so in the philippines, but very very few in china, japan, HK, singapore, malaysia ...

the worst sh-it i've seen in europe for instance was in Rotterdam, and the Amsterdam, and the suburbs of london and paris and berlin, i don't feel too much safe in europe actually, at least by night and indeed it's gonna get worse in places like Greece and Spain where people is now desperate for jobs and for money.

i mean, it's just a 2 minutes job robbing a tourist of his camera+lens, kicking him from behind, beating him up on the floor, and running away with 1000s of dollars in stolen gear.

True. But if a country is generally * up when it comes to safety, why would I risk it? Like Mexico for instance. If they're killing federals and cops like flies. And many times civilians come under cross fire. These locos are just spraying.

That being said I also went in South Bronx alone, but I admit, when I was going back to the subway, I was sweating like a pig. Being the only white person there, you really stick out. And that was in the 90s, when armored buses used to take tourists there. But I just had to go, sticking to just the safest parts of Manhattan really gets boring. I went to Harlem etc as well.

Yes, in Palermo they have an interesting approach. They just throw a rock on your head from a balcony or a window and then collect the valuables. Or at least, that's what they were doing, it's supposed to be a lot safer now. I was there twice, once alone and nothing bad ever happened, but of course I stayed out of dark alleys and when I was alone, I usually went to the hotel after 10 pm. Especially after seeing policemen with automatic weapons on the street.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: basketman23 on May 05, 2012, 14:42
Bangkok for first choice
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 05, 2012, 14:44

trouble is, these 3-world countries are overrated, photography wise, that is, exept maybe Thailand and Malaysia. I have travelled around Africa, etc and the guidance is sometimes non existant, accomodation is sometimes terrible and there is no security what so ever. It looks very nice on postcards but once you get there its a differant story,  believe me.

If you can get the money, trust me, New Zealand and Australia, you will come back and in no time, the pics will have paid for the trip. Thats the general idea, isnt it?

in my experience, every possible place looks gorgeous in postcards.
in fact we should blame ourselves to make some places look much better than they deserve.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 05, 2012, 14:44
Really not worth it. I get a few times more from a single lifestyle shoot.

well, speak for yourself :)
there are skilled travel photographers who can pretty well shoot 50 or 100 saleable pics a day while traveling.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: rubyroo on May 05, 2012, 14:52
Wow great video! Thanks. Amazing, I haven't thought of Cornwall for years. 1 minute 11 seconds to 1 minute 15 seconds looks really familiar.

That's Mousehole.  Be sure to pronounce it 'Muzzle' down there, or you get in trouble with the locals!  :D Glad you liked it.

@ Lagereek:  Great!  Have a wonderful 1001st trip!  ;D  I agree, I never want to leave the place when I'm there.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 05, 2012, 14:55
Really not worth it. I get a few times more from a single lifestyle shoot.

well, speak for yourself :)
there are skilled travel photographers who can pretty well shoot 50 or 100 saleable pics a day while traveling.

That's what I also said ;)

But yes, I know that ppl that do it properly earn a lot of money from it (holgs etc), I'd say in most cases much more to just cover the expenses. Everybody should just do what they do best and enjoy (if possible). I'm glad I found what I like to shot.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: cascoly on May 06, 2012, 12:36
And yes, I know what you mean, as I said I'm going to Morocco and I wonder what are the hygienic standards like (I heard from lots of ppl they're terrible). I don't care if the streets are filled with filth, crap and garbage, but I do mind getting dirty forks and plates in restaurants or stinking sheets in hotels for instance. So I'll decide about India, when I return from Morocco (I know it's even worse down there).


never been to morocco but it can't be worse than india, nepal, rural china, cambodia ...

dirty forks and sheets are the norm unless you go in 4-5 stars hotels, not to mention cockroaches, and much more.
if this is a deal breaker i'm afraid you better skip india and surrounding altogether but let me say this is not the real issue, the real issue are the endless ripoffs and scams, sometimes even by fellow western expats !


sorry your experience of india has been such a disappointment - we dont usually stay in 4 or 5 star hotels, and yet we've never found dirty sheets in our hotels.  we eat in dhabas, roadside mud huts, but we see the food delivered directly from the stove.  i've trekked in Nepal & Morocco, and visited hill tribes in Orissa, India and remote pilgrimage sites in Gujarat.  conditions aren't disneyworld, but they're more the equivalent of a backcountry trip in yosemite, but with the addition of friendly people everywhere.   

i've worked with several online travel agents in india, and never been scammed . of course there are hustlers in any country, but they're minor hassles, not major disasters

http://cascoly.hubpages.com/hub/Pushed-at-the-Puskar-Fair-in-Rajasthan (http://cascoly.hubpages.com/hub/Pushed-at-the-Puskar-Fair-in-Rajasthan)   is one of over a dozen articles i've written on our india travels, and it shows things dont always work as planned in india, but they do always work out.   

india isn't for everyone, but it's much better than the image you display
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: cascoly on May 06, 2012, 12:39
Really not worth it. I get a few times more from a single lifestyle shoot.

well, speak for yourself :)
there are skilled travel photographers who can pretty well shoot 50 or 100 saleable pics a day while traveling.

exactly - my biggest problem with india is the quantity of images i have to deal with on my return - i've still got over 1000 images from my 2009 trip to edit & submit;  there is just no place on earth with as many possibilities for a photographer
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on May 06, 2012, 16:47
Just think of the little pirate villages like Mevagissey, Polperro, Cadgewith, etc. Beautyful and with a full pirate history.

Ah yes, I've been to the first two, but I don't know Cadgewith.  Must check that out on next visit if I get a chance.



You could go to Hawkes Wood, near Wadebridge. My great aunt gave it to the Cornwall Naturalists Trust (more or less creating them in the process, I believe). She was a remarkable woman. Dorothy Sewart. The discoverer of non-flowering chamomile.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: rubyroo on May 06, 2012, 17:32
Wonderful!  Thank you BT, I'll add that to my list of places to visit next time.  How lovely that your great aunt did these things, and left you with such stories to tell  :)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 07, 2012, 00:25
Just think of the little pirate villages like Mevagissey, Polperro, Cadgewith, etc. Beautyful and with a full pirate history.

Ah yes, I've been to the first two, but I don't know Cadgewith.  Must check that out on next visit if I get a chance.



You could go to Hawkes Wood, near Wadebridge. My great aunt gave it to the Cornwall Naturalists Trust (more or less creating them in the process, I believe). She was a remarkable woman. Dorothy Sewart. The discoverer of non-flowering chamomile.

Lovely story!  thanks.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 07, 2012, 02:48
sorry your experience of india has been such a disappointment - we dont usually stay in 4 or 5 star hotels, and yet we've never found dirty sheets in our hotels.  we eat in dhabas, roadside mud huts, but we see the food delivered directly from the stove.  i've trekked in Nepal & Morocco, and visited hill tribes in Orissa, India and remote pilgrimage sites in Gujarat.  conditions aren't disneyworld, but they're more the equivalent of a backcountry trip in yosemite, but with the addition of friendly people everywhere.   

i've worked with several online travel agents in india, and never been scammed . of course there are hustlers in any country, but they're minor hassles, not major disasters

[url]http://cascoly.hubpages.com/hub/Pushed-at-the-Puskar-Fair-in-Rajasthan[/url] ([url]http://cascoly.hubpages.com/hub/Pushed-at-the-Puskar-Fair-in-Rajasthan[/url])   is one of over a dozen articles i've written on our india travels, and it shows things dont always work as planned in india, but they do always work out.   

india isn't for everyone, but it's much better than the image you display


no no ... not disappointing at all, i travel quite rough and i love it, i was just replying to Wut who specifically asked about dirty spoons etc.
hahaha to give you an idea my first night in Delhi after a rough month in Kathmandu was in Paharganj in a lurid 5$ guesthouse ... and i stayed a couple weeks there as it's so colorful and the food is cheap and great.

as for the scams, i haven't been scammed but maybe because i'm not a newbie in asia and i know the score a bit, but they tried and tried again, sometimes many times a day and they can be quite pushy compared to the rest of asia.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 07, 2012, 02:51
exactly - my biggest problem with india is the quantity of images i have to deal with on my return - i've still got over 1000 images from my 2009 trip to edit & submit;  there is just no place on earth with as many possibilities for a photographer

indeed, for travel photography i think it's the nr.1 destination, there's simply nothing else like India, it can easily become overwhelming in the right places and the right situation.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 07, 2012, 03:23
exactly - my biggest problem with india is the quantity of images i have to deal with on my return - i've still got over 1000 images from my 2009 trip to edit & submit;  there is just no place on earth with as many possibilities for a photographer

indeed, for travel photography i think it's the nr.1 destination, there's simply nothing else like India, it can easily become overwhelming in the right places and the right situation.

I've visited India twice in the last 6 years, the last time was spring last year. The time before was 5 years prior. I only visited cities last time and there seems to be quite a change from when I went last year to 5 years prior. I like India, but in small doses. I adore the food. For me, I just can't find anywhere in the world which has better food than India.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 07, 2012, 05:07
I've visited India twice in the last 6 years, the last time was spring last year. The time before was 5 years prior. I only visited cities last time and there seems to be quite a change from when I went last year to 5 years prior. I like India, but in small doses. I adore the food. For me, I just can't find anywhere in the world which has better food than India.

What's the change? Huge advancements, rise of living standard, less poverty, less chaos, more order? Which Cities would you recommend?

Regarding food, Italy? But if you like spicy and exotic food, then I can see, how nothing can beat it. I like it too. But just like chinese, you really have to go there to eat the real deal
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: cascoly on May 07, 2012, 11:42
[

Regarding food, Italy? But if you like spicy and exotic food, then I can see, how nothing can beat it. I like it too. But just like chinese, you really have to go there to eat the real deal

actually UK has some of the best Indian food, and now there are also many good Indian restaurants in the US, not to mention chez moi - i've been cooking indian and chinese food for oveer 40 years, and each travel brings home new recipes
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 07, 2012, 13:56
i could eat indian food (especially Punjabi) every day if i could.

i also had great food in several Iranian, Turkish, and Lebanese restaurants, can't wait to travel in middle east myself once i finish to cover the orient.

if you like indian food you will like Myanmar food as well, similar but different, malaysian is also good with plenty of indian and indonesian influences.

by opposite i can't understand all the fuss about Thai food honestly and in cambodia you literally risk to be served with dog food ...
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 07, 2012, 14:17
I've visited India twice in the last 6 years, the last time was spring last year. The time before was 5 years prior. I only visited cities last time and there seems to be quite a change from when I went last year to 5 years prior. I like India, but in small doses. I adore the food. For me, I just can't find anywhere in the world which has better food than India.

What's the change? Huge advancements, rise of living standard, less poverty, less chaos, more order? Which Cities would you recommend?

Regarding food, Italy? But if you like spicy and exotic food, then I can see, how nothing can beat it. I like it too. But just like chinese, you really have to go there to eat the real deal

rise of living standards in India ? only for the middle class, and of course they live in "gates communities" with guards at the entrance, Delhi and Mumbai are the living example of this sort of apartheid between the rich, the poors, and the outcasts ("dalit").

so yes, it's getting better but only for those who can afford it, which are maybe 5-10% of the population.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: RacePhoto on May 07, 2012, 23:37
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

And regarding crime... there are dangerous areas in every country (yours included).

What's the politically correct term for the same thing? I just want to know what the thought censors are pedaling now so we can speak about places that have it rough economically or are emerging and growing?

As for the second part. Yeah, no kidding. Where I'm living now I can hear gunfire at night, people in pick-ups come around looking for scrap, including stealing anything that they can recycle. The guy who rents in back had the wheels stolen off his wife's car, while it was parked in the lot. Just like the movies, I come back from camping and there's a car up on concrete blocks.  :o  Someone stole the tailgate off one of his trucks. (this stuff happens while I'm away for the weekend, so I suspect these people know when no one is here.) 
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 07, 2012, 23:50
This is the year 2012.  "Third World" is a very outdated and rather offensive term. 

And regarding crime... there are dangerous areas in every country (yours included).

What's the politically correct term for the same thing? I just want to know what the thought censors are pedaling now so we can speak about places that have it rough economically or are emerging and growing?

As for the second part. Yeah, no kidding. Where I'm living now I can hear gunfire at night, people in pick-ups come around looking for scrap, including stealing anything that they can recycle. The guy who rents in back had the wheels stolen off his wife's car, while it was parked in the lot. Just like the movies, I come back from camping and there's a car up on concrete blocks.  :o  Someone stole the tailgate off one of his trucks. (this stuff happens while I'm away for the weekend, so I suspect these people know when no one is here.) 

Politically correct term is:  piss poor countries.  ;)  oh well, you know.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on May 08, 2012, 00:57
Politically correct term is:  piss poor countries.  ;)  oh well, you know.

in my experience it's often not an issue of material poverty but of spiritual, intellectual, and technological poverty.

the first thing you see in a piss poor country is the abysmal state of the roads, if there are roads actually !
then look at the houses ... they usually make their own bricks, but dont expect them to have any clue about building a straight wall.
what about the roofs .. usually corrugated iron roofs fixed on wood ... electricity coming from a hanging wire cable fixed on the nearest tree .. same for telephone lines .. water coming in water tanks, but using dirty old tubes, sidewalks broken and with broken tiles, old motorbikes fixed 100 times, and the list goes on and on ... thanks god nowadays they can buy brand new cheap stuff from china otherwise they would end up using donkeys as they do in many parts of asia anyway.

now to the real issue, talk to these guys and they're pretty happy of all this, no desire to improve this, and no feeling of living in the sh-it, i mean they're born in the sh-it so it's the most natural thing for them, i remember some bamboo villages in Laos and Myanmar for instance, apart their mobile phones and TVs they were living like in the stone age and the highlight was their craftsmen carving huge trees in order to make canoes and kayaks to fish in the river.

so, indeed we should stop talking about "third world" as there's a sizeable part of the world that is just not interested about being civilized and radically changed (in worse) by technology and are very happy living as hunters/gatherers like in the Neolithic.

who are we to judge ? live and let live, i say.

 
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 08, 2012, 01:04
Politically correct term is:  piss poor countries.  ;)  oh well, you know.

in my experience it's often not an issue of material poverty but of spiritual, intellectual, and technological poverty.

the first thing you see in a piss poor country is the abysmal state of the roads, if there are roads actually !
then look at the houses ... they usually make their own bricks, but dont expect them to have any clue about building a straight wall.
what about the roofs .. usually corrugated iron roofs fixed on wood ... electricity coming from a hanging wire cable fixed on the nearest tree .. same for telephone lines .. water coming in water tanks, but using dirty old tubes, sidewalks broken and with broken tiles, old motorbikes fixed 100 times, and the list goes on and on ... thanks god nowadays they can buy brand new cheap stuff from china otherwise they would end up using donkeys as they do in many parts of asia anyway.

now to the real issue, talk to these guys and they're pretty happy of all this, no desire to improve this, and no feeling of living in the sh-it, i mean they're born in the sh-it so it's the most natural thing for them, i remember some bamboo villages in Laos and Myanmar for instance, apart their mobile phones and TVs they were living like in the stone age and the highlight was their craftsmen carving huge trees in order to make canoes and kayaks to fish in the river.

so, indeed we should stop talking about "third world" as there's a sizeable part of the world that is just not interested about being civilized and radically changed (in worse) by technology and are very happy living as hunters/gatherers like in the Neolithic.

who are we to judge ? live and let live, i say.

 

Agreeing!  good one.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: cascoly on May 08, 2012, 15:03
  the first thing you see in a piss poor country is the abysmal state of the roads, if there are roads actually ! 

ever drive in any US city, especially ones that have winter potholes?

US infrastructure is miserable - here in seattle, you need to avoid driving in the right hand lanes on many roads

many bridges across the country are considered unsafe and little is done til they collapse

but with a 'no new taxes' philosoph for last 30 years, cities and states have been left to rot
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 08, 2012, 16:00
  the first thing you see in a piss poor country is the abysmal state of the roads, if there are roads actually ! 

ever drive in any US city, especially ones that have winter potholes?

US infrastructure is miserable - here in seattle, you need to avoid driving in the right hand lanes on many roads

many bridges across the country are considered unsafe and little is done til they collapse

but with a 'no new taxes' philosoph for last 30 years, cities and states have been left to rot

I have driven many times in New York,  potholes galore!  just about everywhere.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 08, 2012, 16:02
  the first thing you see in a piss poor country is the abysmal state of the roads, if there are roads actually ! 

ever drive in any US city, especially ones that have winter potholes?

US infrastructure is miserable - here in seattle, you need to avoid driving in the right hand lanes on many roads

many bridges across the country are considered unsafe and little is done til they collapse

but with a 'no new taxes' philosoph for last 30 years, cities and states have been left to rot

I have driven many times in New York,  potholes galore!  just about everywhere.

Sounds terrible. I've been thinking about visiting the States, but people keep telling me that it's expensive and dangerous, and now I hear that the infrastructure is falling apart. I think I'll just stay here in my bamboo hut  ;)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 08, 2012, 16:05
  the first thing you see in a piss poor country is the abysmal state of the roads, if there are roads actually ! 

ever drive in any US city, especially ones that have winter potholes?

US infrastructure is miserable - here in seattle, you need to avoid driving in the right hand lanes on many roads

many bridges across the country are considered unsafe and little is done til they collapse

but with a 'no new taxes' philosoph for last 30 years, cities and states have been left to rot

I have driven many times in New York,  potholes galore!  just about everywhere.

Sounds terrible. I've been thinking about visiting the States, but people keep telling me that it's expensive and dangerous, and now I hear that the infrastructure is falling apart. I think I'll just stay here in my bamboo hut  ;)

And the food is terrible unless you shell out at least 100$ ;) . Not to mention coffee, which is a joke, they serve huge cups of brown water ;)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: lagereek on May 08, 2012, 23:45
  the first thing you see in a piss poor country is the abysmal state of the roads, if there are roads actually ! 

ever drive in any US city, especially ones that have winter potholes?

US infrastructure is miserable - here in seattle, you need to avoid driving in the right hand lanes on many roads

many bridges across the country are considered unsafe and little is done til they collapse

but with a 'no new taxes' philosoph for last 30 years, cities and states have been left to rot

I have driven many times in New York,  potholes galore!  just about everywhere.

Sounds terrible. I've been thinking about visiting the States, but people keep telling me that it's expensive and dangerous, and now I hear that the infrastructure is falling apart. I think I'll just stay here in my bamboo hut  ;)

Nah, nah,  its not that bad. New York, is magical, something about the big apple, which cant be explained,  really is. Although, its not like London, Rome or Paris,  these are just pure history, fantastic.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dange
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 09, 2012, 01:46
  the first thing you see in a piss poor country is the abysmal state of the roads, if there are roads actually ! 

ever drive in any US city, especially ones that have winter potholes?

US infrastructure is miserable - here in seattle, you need to avoid driving in the right hand lanes on many roads

many bridges across the country are considered unsafe and little is done til they collapse

but with a 'no new taxes' philosoph for last 30 years, cities and states have been left to rot

I have driven many times in New York,  potholes galore!  just about everywhere.

Sounds terrible. I've been thinking about visiting the States, but people keep telling me that it's expensive and dangerous, and now I hear that the infrastructure is falling apart. I think I'll just stay here in my bamboo hut  ;)

Nah, nah,  its not that bad. New York, is magical, something about the big apple, which cant be explained,  really is. Although, its not like London, Rome or Paris,  these are just pure history, fantastic.

Yeah, I'm just messin'. I've been to New York, London, Paris (not Rome) and many other places. Majical for me though is Asia, especially the places that some people may be concerned about going to. The positives far outweigh the negatives. The key to travelling is the ability to adapt, I've seen many Westerners in Asia becoming stressed, I think primarily because they can't understand or don't like why everything is not working like their hometown, and can't adapt well to new situations. It takes years to understand a country and its people, so if someone has just a few weeks or months, there's no point in trying to understand too much and to a large extent you have to go with the flow, as well as not feel bitter when bad stuff happens, bad stuff happens at home too.   
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on May 20, 2012, 11:47
it's my 4th the first 24h. After that everything is jugs repeating itself, all the street performers/artists are doing the same, mostly really boring and low level entertainment shows and in lots of case7s they're exploiting animals (cobras, monkeys, horses used to pull  carriages etc). On top of all the place is a cesspool, evedy square centimeter of marrakech stinks of urine and sheat, whether it's horse or human. I've seen tourist st holding sweaters over their noses to keep em from throwing up. They don't have the basic hygiene standards, flies everywhere, on the food, ppl sneezing and no one covers his.mouth with his arm/hand, bread is.delivered and handled like newspaper...And I wax thinking.about going to India :o. Well at least there's so many things.to see in India, unlike here...
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 08, 2012, 19:24
I just found a plane ticket to Rio for 504 :o . This is so absurdly cheap, that I'd be a fool not to go. Since I wouldn't stay in Rio for the whole time (I think 14 days is too much for any city, NY could be the only exception), I'd really appreciate if someone would be willing to drop a few lines on which cities in the vicinity (or not if there's something really interesting) are worth visiting. I'm not interested in resorts and the jungle. I'd probably go in late November (the price is the same throughout the month and would be the best time for me to go, to escape winter etc)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 09, 2012, 05:00
I'm listening to ppl traveling to 3rd world countries how stiff that has become. You easily spend 3-3,5k on Cuba or in Brazil in a couple of weeks. That's 3 times more you'd typically spend there 5 or 10 years ago. The same goes for Asia, Thailand for example, prices got doubled in the last 5 years, at least alcoholic drinks cost the same as in Europe (because Asians can't handle liquor). So you actually pay 500-1500 for a plane ticket to enjoy yourself and throw your money at everything because it's so cheap, just to realize everything costs the same or even more as in most EU countries. And there's no real problem with crime in Europe, you can't say it's dangerous whereas if you travel to any Latin American country (except for Cuba) you really have to watch where and when you're going somewhere, especially by yourself or as a couple or even a small group. I'd really like to go to Latin America for instance (probably Mexico due to cheap flights). But all that puts me off. I'm not interested in Asia (perhaps in India), just to let you know to focus on other continents when you write your posts ;)

I'd like to hear some first hand experiences, I know there's lots of ppl traveling a lot, like holgs etc.

Asia is booming regarding prices but there are still a few countries rock bottom cheap.
for instance vietnam, cambodia, laos, myanmar, philippines.

it's all to you, how much you can go rough, in southern cambodia i could rent a nice room in a guesthouse with fridge
aircon toilet balcony for 120$/month in low season and around 200$ in high season, in the big cities add 30%.
in Vietnam similar prices but better service and cleaner rooms, in laos and myanmar is quite rough but exotic,
in Thailand indeed everything is doubled but still good for accomodations, 15$/night will give you plenty of nice clean rooms
unless you stay in bangkok.

beers are still relatively cheap, or you can go local and drink whiskey or rum or rice wine for 1-2$/bottle.

transportation by bus and train is still cheap, taxis on the other side keep going up, same for renting a moto.
with AirAsia there are cheap flight all around asia, so much better than Ryanair etc.

security is a problem but nothing compared to south/central america.
as a rule, the rougher you look, the better it is, nobody will bother you but it's not easy to hide a big full frame camera + flash + tripod.

however, for photography i would recommend Myanmar, it's fantastic for both architecture, people, and lifestyle, but very rough to move around, not
for the inexperienced traveller.

thailand is so much overrated by opposite, while cambodia and vietnam have plenty of photo opportunities, laos a bit less but still worth it.
malaysia nice place but photographically boring in my opinion, singapore excellent but as expensive as back home if not more !
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 09, 2012, 05:19

security is a problem but nothing compared to south/central america.
as a rule, the rougher you look, the better it is, nobody will bother you but it's not easy to hide a big full frame camera + flash + tripod.


Yeah, but that's what interests me :) . See my previous post ;) . So far everybody is recommending Asia, but there's really nothing that would interest me.

Gear is not a problem since I don't carry it on my travels anymore. Instagram is all I need, I don't do travel photography anyway, since it's too much hassle with the gear (to carry it and also regarding security) and I don't really like it anyway (I suck at taking shots of architecture, I don't do nature at all and I'm too shy and don't like to bother ppl on the streets as well)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: ShadySue on July 09, 2012, 05:31
Oh well, interesting that you chose the city I hear most negative things, security-wise, about.
Can't imagine why you like to travel: you don't like architecture, nature or streetlife. Might as well stay at home.

I could do with going to a desert right now, but I've blown my year's travel budget.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 09, 2012, 08:08
Can't imagine why you like to travel: you don't like architecture, nature or streetlife. Might as well stay at home.


When it comes to photography ;) . I travel to enjoy myself, explore and see new things. I don't need all the hassle that comes with making good photos of that, the return is way too small for me to make it worth it. I earn 10x more with an averagely successful lifestyle shoot, than I did with photos from Portugal and Sicily combined - so you can see how badly I suck at travel photography. If it wasn't for an EL at SS, the difference would be 100x in favour of the shoots I do otherwise.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 09, 2012, 12:27
Oh well, interesting that you chose the city I hear most negative things, security-wise, about.

About that, the plane ticket price is so low it's almost worth getting stabbed there. I mean you just can't have it all, can you :)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: ShadySue on July 09, 2012, 12:30
Oh well, interesting that you chose the city I hear most negative things, security-wise, about.

About that, the plane ticket price is so low it's almost worth getting stabbed there. I mean you just can't have it all, can you :)
Hmmmm
I met a young woman from Rio last year in Pisa and asked her if Rio was as bad as I'd heard. Her reply was to the effect that she has survived there with no problems, but tourists are very much targetted. So I guess it depends how 'local' you might look. I certainly would have no chance of looking local.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 09, 2012, 13:03
nothing to do and to see in the whole of Asia ???????????????????????
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Lagereek on July 09, 2012, 13:03
I would definetely stay way clear of a place called Glasgow, its somewhere in Scotland, nobody really know where but its well reputed as the last resort of the Haggis-eaters, a very, very dangerous breed.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: ShadySue on July 09, 2012, 13:06
I would definetely stay way clear of a place called Glasgow, its somewhere in Scotland, nobody really know where but its well reputed as the last resort of the Haggis-eaters, a very, very dangerous breed.
If ye can say, "It's a braw, bricht moonlicht nicht, then ye're a'richt, ye ken"
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Lagereek on July 09, 2012, 13:12
I would definetely stay way clear of a place called Glasgow, its somewhere in Scotland, nobody really know where but its well reputed as the last resort of the Haggis-eaters, a very, very dangerous breed.
If ye can say, "It's a braw, bricht moonlicht nicht, then ye're a'richt, ye ken"

Actually and you know this from my previous posts, I love Scotland and the Highlands is my absoloute favorite place,  been there a thousand times. Even planning to get a cottage or something in that region.
BTW,  love that speach and accent, but dont understand a damned thing. Not many do. :)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: ShadySue on July 09, 2012, 13:26
BTW,  love that speach and accent, but dont understand a damned thing. Not many do. :)

 ;D
A wee deoch an' doris - Harry Lauder (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X_3N6pcXBw#)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Lagereek on July 09, 2012, 13:41
BTW,  love that speach and accent, but dont understand a damned thing. Not many do. :)

 ;D
A wee deoch an' doris - Harry Lauder ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X_3N6pcXBw#[/url])



Oh yeah, this is a real legend!  what a lovely accent! isnt it. How can you beat that?  thanks for posting this Sue!  it was well worth having a beef with you just to see this. Brillant! :)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 09, 2012, 15:27
Oh well, interesting that you chose the city I hear most negative things, security-wise, about.

About that, the plane ticket price is so low it's almost worth getting stabbed there. I mean you just can't have it all, can you :)
Hmmmm
I met a young woman from Rio last year in Pisa and asked her if Rio was as bad as I'd heard. Her reply was to the effect that she has survived there with no problems, but tourists are very much targetted. So I guess it depends how 'local' you might look. I certainly would have no chance of looking local.

Well you know how I look, I certainly don't have a latin look and I'm not black either. But I'm no albino either, so I'd be spotted by crooks from a km away. But there are many white ppl living in Rio as well, A tog I know spent a few weeks there last year, showed us some photos and told us all about his trip. What draws me there is the unbelivable energy, ppl are dancing on the streets, ppl of all ages, the atmosphere is incredible.

And yeah, I've heard a lot of bad things about Brazil (security wise) as well and I did raise those concerns in my previous posts. But most ppl that answered to those post said it wasn't that bad or that it depends on you really, some of them were locals (velocicarpo, madelaide).
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 09, 2012, 15:35
nothing to do and to see in the whole of Asia ???????????????????????

For me no. I wasn't sure I'd like Morocco before I went there and it was a lot worse than I expected. Travel that by far the worst in my life, so far I've had a good time on every single travel. It's like going to hell. What I wanted to say, I have enough travel experience to know whether I might like the place or not.

When it comes to Asia, nothing draws me there. Not the ppl, not the dirty big cities with nothing besides temples to see and dirty smelly food stalls etc. I know if you go on a trekking, there are gorgeous sights, beautiful nature (Laos etc), but I'm not into that. From what I've heard from numerous ppl, nothing raised my attention, nothing interests me that much that I'd want to go there. 95% of men go to Thailand for sex tourism.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 09, 2012, 21:01
Oh yeah, this is a real legend!  what a lovely accent! isnt it. How can you beat that?  thanks for posting this Sue!  it was well worth having a beef with you just to see this. Brillant! :)

it's not an accent, it's a whole language apart.
can't see anything lovely about it, and same for those speaking strict Liverpoolian.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 09, 2012, 21:06
For me no. I wasn't sure I'd like Morocco before I went there and it was a lot worse than I expected. Travel that by far the worst in my life, so far I've had a good time on every single travel. It's like going to hell. What I wanted to say, I have enough travel experience to know whether I might like the place or not.

When it comes to Asia, nothing draws me there. Not the ppl, not the dirty big cities with nothing besides temples to see and dirty smelly food stalls etc. I know if you go on a trekking, there are gorgeous sights, beautiful nature (Laos etc), but I'm not into that. From what I've heard from numerous ppl, nothing raised my attention, nothing interests me that much that I'd want to go there. 95% of men go to Thailand for sex tourism.

then maybe you should try sex as i guess you're in need of it considering your absolutely foolish outlook on anything oriental.

if you can't like asia you simply don't like life.

you're an obvious unexperienced traveller and you can only blame yourself if the places you traveled are a "hell".
typical fat greasy yank watching Fox news and pretending the world revolves around ammmmerika !
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 09, 2012, 21:20
95% of men go to Thailand for sex tourism.

and who can blame them considering how much the so called thai culture is overestimated, how much they managed to ruin all the pristine beaches, to make a disneyland out of the whole of thailand, to scam and ripoff tourists in any possible nasty way, to make their sea look yellow/brown and the countryside an open air dump, with all the garbage being taken down to the ocean at the next flood.

culture might be found in myanmar and cambodia, not much in thailand actually, as most of it's culture is in fact khmer/cambodian to boot but rebranded as "thai" or "siamese" ! and it all comes from India anyway, as for the food it's a blend of burmese and khmer and chinese as well, nothing really ever "invented" in thailand, not even the Red Bull as it's a ripoff of a notorious korean energizer drink.

not be harsh but having lived in SE asia for a few years i'm a bit tired of all the BS running on about the so called "land of smiles".
i only return there to make photos as unfortunately it's still the top tourist destination in south asia and therefore my top seller for south asian images.

and following your logic, 99% of the western people going in thailand know jack sh-it about thailand and the orient as a whole, fact, which is not far from truth actually, so many expats living in a "bubble" even after 20 yrs in SE asia.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Lagereek on July 10, 2012, 00:44
Oh yeah, this is a real legend!  what a lovely accent! isnt it. How can you beat that?  thanks for posting this Sue!  it was well worth having a beef with you just to see this. Brillant! :)

it's not an accent, it's a whole language apart.
can't see anything lovely about it, and same for those speaking strict Liverpoolian.

Liverpoolian is horrible but a gaelic or whatever its called genuine accent like this,  thats called culture.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: ShadySue on July 10, 2012, 02:18
Oh yeah, this is a real legend!  what a lovely accent! isnt it. How can you beat that?  thanks for posting this Sue!  it was well worth having a beef with you just to see this. Brillant! :)

it's not an accent, it's a whole language apart.
can't see anything lovely about it, and same for those speaking strict Liverpoolian.

Liverpoolian is horrible but a gaelic or whatever its called genuine accent like this,  thats called culture.

Gaelic is a language; there are various Scots dialects.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 10, 2012, 02:32
Liverpoolian is horrible but a gaelic or whatever its called genuine accent like this,  thats called culture.

yes but these guys don't speak proper english, and yet they pretend to be understood and they're even sometimes
shocked to realize they're speaking "funny" once they set foot outside the UK.

i lost count of the many scots tourists here in asia walking in a bar or a bank or a shop and talking loudly to the clerks
expecting to be understood with the clearks struggling to grasp a single word and just saying yes yes yes ....

such an arrogance ... and no matter if you make them notice their spoken english is gibberish, they will tell me
that my spoken english sounds foreign or whatever, usually they say i've a german or russian accent .. oh well hahaha
that's even more funny but hey it's a crazy world....
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 10, 2012, 04:05
For me no. I wasn't sure I'd like Morocco before I went there and it was a lot worse than I expected. Travel that by far the worst in my life, so far I've had a good time on every single travel. It's like going to hell. What I wanted to say, I have enough travel experience to know whether I might like the place or not.

When it comes to Asia, nothing draws me there. Not the ppl, not the dirty big cities with nothing besides temples to see and dirty smelly food stalls etc. I know if you go on a trekking, there are gorgeous sights, beautiful nature (Laos etc), but I'm not into that. From what I've heard from numerous ppl, nothing raised my attention, nothing interests me that much that I'd want to go there. 95% of men go to Thailand for sex tourism.

then maybe you should try sex as i guess you're in need of it considering your absolutely foolish outlook on anything oriental.

if you can't like asia you simply don't like life.

you're an obvious unexperienced traveller and you can only blame yourself if the places you traveled are a "hell".
typical fat greasy yank watching Fox news and pretending the world revolves around ammmmerika !

Great stuff! I can respond now since I'm getting ready for a cup of tea with my friends. We're gonna discuss some politics too and what those * commies liberals are up to.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 10, 2012, 04:25
95% of men go to Thailand for sex tourism.

and who can blame them considering how much the so called thai culture is overestimated, how much they managed to ruin all the pristine beaches, to make a disneyland out of the whole of thailand, to scam and ripoff tourists in any possible nasty way, to make their sea look yellow/brown and the countryside an open air dump, with all the garbage being taken down to the ocean at the next flood.

culture might be found in myanmar and cambodia, not much in thailand actually, as most of it's culture is in fact khmer/cambodian to boot but rebranded as "thai" or "siamese" ! and it all comes from India anyway, as for the food it's a blend of burmese and khmer and chinese as well, nothing really ever "invented" in thailand, not even the Red Bull as it's a ripoff of a notorious korean energizer drink.

not be harsh but having lived in SE asia for a few years i'm a bit tired of all the BS running on about the so called "land of smiles".
i only return there to make photos as unfortunately it's still the top tourist destination in south asia and therefore my top seller for south asian images.

and following your logic, 99% of the western people going in thailand know jack sh-it about thailand and the orient as a whole, fact, which is not far from truth actually, so many expats living in a "bubble" even after 20 yrs in SE asia.

It's a great description and you obviously know what you're talking about. But it's like convincing a football fan, who's looking for champion's leagues tickets to go watch a basketball game which doesn't interest him ;) . I hope you get it now. What I'm really looking for now is to get as much as possible info about Rio and Brazil as a whole. National flights cost as little as 50 in Brazil, so it's cheap to fly around there, for instance from Rio to Belo Horizonte which I'd visit, a crazy town with 14.000 bars :o. Some smaller, interesting and also safer towns too, so I can be relaxed and off guard too ;)

And what you said, land of smiles...Same goes for Bali as well. But you rarely really see Asian ppl with sense of humour, that joke around, really have fun and relax. If they're tourists they always walk in line like cattle, either looking down their feet all serious and boring or they're handling both a video and a photo camera. It's the same if you come in their Chinese/Japanese/Thai etc restaurant. No atmosphere, no one is relaxed, so sterile. I mean they're dull, withdrawn, keeping to themselves (not all, I gues those from south Asia are a bit different). That's why I can't see no reason to go there. What city vibe can I expect there. It's sure not like NY, safe for the hecticness, there's no dancing in the street with everybody being relaxed, partying, drinking, great music etc like in Brazil, ppl are not friendly, open and warm like in Sicily. So why would I wanna go there? No sights that interest me as well (and sights are always secondary to my trip planning anyway).

A friend of mine just came from Scandinavia, Sweden and Finland. Said ppl were so depressed, melancholic and cold that it was such a terrible experience, she could never live among those ppl. It was hell for her as well. So there must be something wrong with us :o (she was in Thailand, USA, Africa and all around Europe)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Lagereek on July 10, 2012, 06:19
95% of men go to Thailand for sex tourism.

and who can blame them considering how much the so called thai culture is overestimated, how much they managed to ruin all the pristine beaches, to make a disneyland out of the whole of thailand, to scam and ripoff tourists in any possible nasty way, to make their sea look yellow/brown and the countryside an open air dump, with all the garbage being taken down to the ocean at the next flood.

culture might be found in myanmar and cambodia, not much in thailand actually, as most of it's culture is in fact khmer/cambodian to boot but rebranded as "thai" or "siamese" ! and it all comes from India anyway, as for the food it's a blend of burmese and khmer and chinese as well, nothing really ever "invented" in thailand, not even the Red Bull as it's a ripoff of a notorious korean energizer drink.

not be harsh but having lived in SE asia for a few years i'm a bit tired of all the BS running on about the so called "land of smiles".
i only return there to make photos as unfortunately it's still the top tourist destination in south asia and therefore my top seller for south asian images.

and following your logic, 99% of the western people going in thailand know jack sh-it about thailand and the orient as a whole, fact, which is not far from truth actually, so many expats living in a "bubble" even after 20 yrs in SE asia.

It's a great description and you obviously know what you're talking about. But it's like convincing a football fan, who's looking for champion's leagues tickets to go watch a basketball game which doesn't interest him ;) . I hope you get it now. What I'm really looking for now is to get as much as possible info about Rio and Brazil as a whole. National flights cost as little as 50 in Brazil, so it's cheap to fly around there, for instance from Rio to Belo Horizonte which I'd visit, a crazy town with 14.000 bars :o. Some smaller, interesting and also safer towns too, so I can be relaxed and off guard too ;)

And what you said, land of smiles...Same goes for Bali as well. But you rarely really see Asian ppl with sense of humour, that joke around, really have fun and relax. If they're tourists they always walk in line like cattle, either looking down their feet all serious and boring or they're handling both a video and a photo camera. It's the same if you come in their Chinese/Japanese/Thai etc restaurant. No atmosphere, no one is relaxed, so sterile. I mean they're dull, withdrawn, keeping to themselves (not all, I gues those from south Asia are a bit different). That's why I can't see no reason to go there. What city vibe can I expect there. It's sure not like NY, safe for the hecticness, there's no dancing in the street with everybody being relaxed, partying, drinking, great music etc like in Brazil, ppl are not friendly, open and warm like in Sicily. So why would I wanna go there? No sights that interest me as well (and sights are always secondary to my trip planning anyway).

A friend of mine just came from Scandinavia, Sweden and Finland. Said ppl were so depressed, melancholic and cold that it was such a terrible experience, she could never live among those ppl. It was hell for her as well. So there must be something wrong with us :o (she was in Thailand, USA, Africa and all around Europe)

Yep!  Scandinavian people are on the melancholic side thats for sure, Scandinavia in autumn and winter are dark, dingy and cold places with the odd wherewoolf popping up now and then, well almost anyway, thats what it feels like.
You have to get down to the south of Sweden to meet more lively people. Stockholm and Gothenburg are beautyful cities but, yes, people are depressing, why? because they "like to think"  they are metropole cities but in reallity, they are no bigger then a suburb to London or Paris.

The problem with Sweden for example is, the people dont appreciate the fact they were exempted from two world-wars, its a rich, hi-tech country with serious wealth and yet we are cr#p compared to our neighbour, Norway, possibly the richest country in the world.

All in all, depressing, self-centered, morbid and overweight populations roams the streets of Scandinavia. Anyone dont believe me? well just get your ass over here and see for yourself.
My saveiour was living in London for 24 years and in Rome for 5 years.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Reef on July 10, 2012, 06:34

blah blah blah

oh for gawd sake, pack your passport and toothbrush in your back pocket and just go!  And please leave your ego and prejudices behind for all our sakes.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 10, 2012, 06:48

blah blah blah

oh for gawd sake, pack your passport and toothbrush in your back pocket and just go!  And please leave your ego and prejudices behind for all our sakes.

I jist love it when ppl tell me what to do. Yes sir, I'll go to Asia and eat chicken feet and fetuses. I'll even become a dirty backpacker, as you suggested ;)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 10, 2012, 07:05
95% of men go to Thailand for sex tourism.

and who can blame them considering how much the so called thai culture is overestimated, how much they managed to ruin all the pristine beaches, to make a disneyland out of the whole of thailand, to scam and ripoff tourists in any possible nasty way, to make their sea look yellow/brown and the countryside an open air dump, with all the garbage being taken down to the ocean at the next flood.

culture might be found in myanmar and cambodia, not much in thailand actually, as most of it's culture is in fact khmer/cambodian to boot but rebranded as "thai" or "siamese" ! and it all comes from India anyway, as for the food it's a blend of burmese and khmer and chinese as well, nothing really ever "invented" in thailand, not even the Red Bull as it's a ripoff of a notorious korean energizer drink.

not be harsh but having lived in SE asia for a few years i'm a bit tired of all the BS running on about the so called "land of smiles".
i only return there to make photos as unfortunately it's still the top tourist destination in south asia and therefore my top seller for south asian images.

and following your logic, 99% of the western people going in thailand know jack sh-it about thailand and the orient as a whole, fact, which is not far from truth actually, so many expats living in a "bubble" even after 20 yrs in SE asia.

It's a great description and you obviously know what you're talking about. But it's like convincing a football fan, who's looking for champion's leagues tickets to go watch a basketball game which doesn't interest him ;) . I hope you get it now. What I'm really looking for now is to get as much as possible info about Rio and Brazil as a whole. National flights cost as little as 50 in Brazil, so it's cheap to fly around there, for instance from Rio to Belo Horizonte which I'd visit, a crazy town with 14.000 bars :o. Some smaller, interesting and also safer towns too, so I can be relaxed and off guard too ;)

And what you said, land of smiles...Same goes for Bali as well. But you rarely really see Asian ppl with sense of humour, that joke around, really have fun and relax. If they're tourists they always walk in line like cattle, either looking down their feet all serious and boring or they're handling both a video and a photo camera. It's the same if you come in their Chinese/Japanese/Thai etc restaurant. No atmosphere, no one is relaxed, so sterile. I mean they're dull, withdrawn, keeping to themselves (not all, I gues those from south Asia are a bit different). That's why I can't see no reason to go there. What city vibe can I expect there. It's sure not like NY, safe for the hecticness, there's no dancing in the street with everybody being relaxed, partying, drinking, great music etc like in Brazil, ppl are not friendly, open and warm like in Sicily. So why would I wanna go there? No sights that interest me as well (and sights are always secondary to my trip planning anyway).

A friend of mine just came from Scandinavia, Sweden and Finland. Said ppl were so depressed, melancholic and cold that it was such a terrible experience, she could never live among those ppl. It was hell for her as well. So there must be something wrong with us :o (she was in Thailand, USA, Africa and all around Europe)

Yep!  Scandinavian people are on the melancholic side thats for sure, Scandinavia in autumn and winter are dark, dingy and cold places with the odd wherewoolf popping up now and then, well almost anyway, thats what it feels like.
You have to get down to the south of Sweden to meet more lively people. Stockholm and Gothenburg are beautyful cities but, yes, people are depressing, why? because they "like to think"  they are metropole cities but in reallity, they are no bigger then a suburb to London or Paris.

The problem with Sweden for example is, the people dont appreciate the fact they were exempted from two world-wars, its a rich, hi-tech country with serious wealth and yet we are cr#p compared  to our neighbour, Norway, possibly the richest country in the world. 
All in all, depressing, self-centered, morbid and overweight populations roams the streets of Scandinavia. Anyone dont believe me? well just get your ass over here and see for yourself.
My saveiour was living in London for 24 years and in Rome for 5 years.

Lol you cracked me up with werewolves ;D .
She was in Stockholm. And yes not just the lack of sun and constant cold, but also lack of light during.the winter
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 10, 2012, 07:34
Btw how did you kike Rome? I was there last week
 Definitely my fav city out of the biggest European cities (Paris,London, Madrid)]
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 10, 2012, 07:52
Btw how did you kike Rome? I was there last week
 Definitely my fav city out of the biggest European cities (Paris,London, Madrid)]

i'm from europe, traveled all around europe, even in eastern europe in the '90s when it was seriously rough.

i can say there's no "best place", but just a top-10 eventually.

there's nothing so packed and various and with so strong personality like europe in the world, impossible to say this is nr.1 and this is nr.2

to me Rome is a place where they rip you off, avoid the south and stick with northern italy, and bring your own food when in venice unless you like paying more than in London or Tokyo for a coffee or a sandwich.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: ShadySue on July 10, 2012, 08:00
... to me Rome is a place where they rip you off,
Especially, do not take a taxi from the station to your accommodation.
(And be wary of pickpockets around the station area)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 10, 2012, 08:19
for instance from Rio to Belo Horizonte which I'd visit, a crazy town with 14.000 bars :o.

and what  a troll like you will do with those 14K bars considering your small di-ck ?
c'mon, even the favela hoo-kers will hardly take you under their wing.

as for the rest of your rants you obviously know jack sh-it about asia, sorry, we dont need more farangs/barang/laowai/gaijin/ang-mo like you here.

oh and if you like sicilians it say it all.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 10, 2012, 08:24
... to me Rome is a place where they rip you off,
Especially, do not take a taxi from the station to your accommodation.
(And be wary of pickpockets around the station area)

and same for public buses, plenty of gypsies from romania doing pickpocketing, mostly kids.

i mean, for me it's child's play considering i live in a shithole country at the moment but certainly these things in Rome are on a higher and industrial scale, if here i just hide the money in a deep pocket leaving home cards etc in rome i would hide everything in my underwearjust in case.

that's for moving out, then scams in restaurants and even with street food vendors.

and the list goes on, never seen the same sh-it in florence or venice or milan or ... only in India or Vietnam or Philippines this is the norm.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 10, 2012, 08:25
Btw how did you kike Rome? I was there last week
 Definitely my fav city out of the biggest European cities (Paris,London, Madrid)]

i'm from europe, traveled all around europe, even in eastern europe in the '90s when it was seriously rough.

i can say there's no "best place", but just a top-10 eventually.

there's nothing so packed and various and with so strong personality like europe in the world, impossible to say this is nr.1 and this is nr.2

to me Rome is a place where they rip you off, avoid the south and stick with northern italy, and bring your own food when in venice unless you like paying more than in London or Tokyo for a coffee or a sandwich.

My experiences are exactly opposite (and that's what makes it interesting). I have a No1, it's Palermo, hands down. Followed by Valencia and Sevilla. When we're talking about Europe. Otherwise NY shares the No1 spot with Palermo. Totally different cities, but both so amazing. And yeah, I like to stick with southern Italy, Sicily, the nicest, friendliest ppl I've ever met, the best food, lots to see and experience...The difference is, you can drink a big beer (0,66l) for 1,5-2 in the city center. It's 4+ in the north, all the way up to 8 for 0,4l (Firenze (Florence) for instance). But the biggest difference is in the ppl, Italians are nice and friendly, but southerners are even more. No or few tourist traps when it comes to restaurants too, unless you're in a resort or a city like Taormina (which could be more touristic). I avoid such places anyway. In Rome they rip you off if you let 'em. If you act like a dumb tourist you deserve it. It's happened only once to me in Rome, when he wanted to charge me 6 for a beer when it was clearly written on the "chalkboard" outside the bar that it costs 4,5. You just have to point it out and say you ain't buying that sheat that it's just the special price for American students. I see many tourists behaving like arrogant cu#ts, so it doesn't surprise me they're ripping them off. If you behave normally, if you know their customs, speak at least a few words of Italian, they appreciate it and treat you nicely.

Of course you can drink a coffee for 1,5 on a nice piazza, just not piazza di San Marco. There are also cafes in Rome just one street from one of the main squares (Navona), serving excellent macchiato for 0,8. I dunno, you just have to be smarter than the average tourist and you can get by just fine. We ate superb food all the time and payed 25-100 for 2, but that 100 meal was in a really good higher priced restaurant. Otherwise pasta dishes cost 6-8 in a good restaurants, salads a bit less, pizzas are 6-11...I didn't eat secondi (second plate), meaning fish or meat many times, since I don't care that much for meat and they're not really known for it (the Italian cuisine) and they don't make fish the way I like it usually, at least that was the case on Sicily (except for swordfish rolls which were delicious everywhere, even from a street grill) and 4 days really weren't enough to experiment that much, so I just sticked to pastas, pizzas and an excellent mozzarella bar, where they deliver fresh buffalo mozzarella every morning
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 10, 2012, 08:28
Yep!  Scandinavian people are on the melancholic side thats for sure, Scandinavia in autumn and winter are dark, dingy and cold places with the odd wherewoolf popping up now and then, well almost anyway, thats what it feels like.
You have to get down to the south of Sweden to meet more lively people. Stockholm and Gothenburg are beautyful cities but, yes, people are depressing, why? because they "like to think"  they are metropole cities but in reallity, they are no bigger then a suburb to London or Paris.

The problem with Sweden for example is, the people dont appreciate the fact they were exempted from two world-wars, its a rich, hi-tech country with serious wealth and yet we are cr#p compared to our neighbour, Norway, possibly the richest country in the world.

All in all, depressing, self-centered, morbid and overweight populations roams the streets of Scandinavia. Anyone dont believe me? well just get your ass over here and see for yourself.
My saveiour was living in London for 24 years and in Rome for 5 years.

they're ok, their maybe only issue is seeing the world from a scandinavian eye, must be a grim reality check for them to realize they're the ONLY place where some things are taken for granted, a welfare like in sweden is unthinkable even in most of western europe, let alone asia, america or africa....

can't see any big issue in scandinavia apart mass immigration and the unsustainable welfare.

where's the problem after all .. every country in europe had its golden days before or later, what i like of nordics is that they're a no crap generation and that when something is made there it just works, and it must be with their harsh climate, not like here where i am now with bamboo huts, iron roofs,  and homes that would crumble at the next heartquake or flood.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: wut on July 10, 2012, 08:30
for instance from Rio to Belo Horizonte which I'd visit, a crazy town with 14.000 bars :o.

and what  a troll like you will do with those 14K bars considering your small di-ck ?
c'mon, even the favela hoo-kers will hardly take you under their wing.

as for the rest of your rants you obviously know jack sh-it about asia, sorry, we dont need more farangs/barang/laowai/gaijin/ang-mo like you here.

oh and if you like sicilians it say it all.

Small dick? Your mum told you? And she promised she wouldn't, * you can never really trust hookers, especially if they give it out for free :o

Gaijin? So you're an Asian? Yeah I can understand why you're so frustrated, obsessed with penis sizes. It's a cruel game of nature that you're only packing 9,66 cm on average. No wonder you behave like that then ;)
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 10, 2012, 08:49
Btw how did you kike Rome? I was there last week
 Definitely my fav city out of the biggest European cities (Paris,London, Madrid)]

i'm from europe, traveled all around europe, even in eastern europe in the '90s when it was seriously rough.

i can say there's no "best place", but just a top-10 eventually.

there's nothing so packed and various and with so strong personality like europe in the world, impossible to say this is nr.1 and this is nr.2

to me Rome is a place where they rip you off, avoid the south and stick with northern italy, and bring your own food when in venice unless you like paying more than in London or Tokyo for a coffee or a sandwich.

My experiences are exactly opposite (and that's what makes it interesting). I have a No1, it's Palermo, hands down. Followed by Valencia and Sevilla. When we're talking about Europe. Otherwise NY shares the No1 spot with Palermo. Totally different cities, but both so amazing. And yeah, I like to stick with southern Italy, Sicily, the nicest, friendliest ppl I've ever met, the best food, lots to see and experience...The difference is, you can drink a big beer (0,66l) for 1,5-2 in the city center. It's 4+ in the north, all the way up to 8 for 0,4l (Firenze (Florence) for instance). But the biggest difference is in the ppl, Italians are nice and friendly, but southerners are even more. No or few tourist traps when it comes to restaurants too, unless you're in a resort or a city like Taormina (which could be more touristic). I avoid such places anyway. In Rome they rip you off if you let 'em. If you act like a dumb tourist you deserve it. It's happened only once to me in Rome, when he wanted to charge me 6 for a beer when it was clearly written on the "chalkboard" outside the bar that it costs 4,5. You just have to point it out and say you ain't buying that sheat that it's just the special price for American students. I see many tourists behaving like arrogant cu#ts, so it doesn't surprise me they're ripping them off. If you behave normally, if you know their customs, speak at least a few words of Italian, they appreciate it and treat you nicely.

Of course you can drink a coffee for 1,5 on a nice piazza, just not piazza di San Marco. There are also cafes in Rome just one street from one of the main squares (Navona), serving excellent macchiato for 0,8. I dunno, you just have to be smarter than the average tourist and you can get by just fine. We ate superb food all the time and payed 25-100 for 2, but that 100 meal was in a really good higher priced restaurant. Otherwise pasta dishes cost 6-8 in a good restaurants, salads a bit less, pizzas are 6-11...I didn't eat secondi (second plate), meaning fish or meat many times, since I don't care that much for meat and they're not really known for it (the Italian cuisine) and they don't make fish the way I like it usually, at least that was the case on Sicily (except for swordfish rolls which were delicious everywhere, even from a street grill) and 4 days really weren't enough to experiment that much, so I just sticked to pastas, pizzas and an excellent mozzarella bar, where they deliver fresh buffalo mozzarella every morning

sorry but Sicily and southern Spain are in europe just geographically, that's maybe why you like it so much, it's NOT europe !

food etc .. OK agree wholeheartly .. but so is Turkey, middle east, india, and much more.

beer : only if you pretend to drink a cheap beer in the very city center of Florence or Milan or Venice ... it's still half a euro in supermarkets and 3-4 euro anywhere else and if you haven't noticed in italy it's cheaper to drink WINE rather than beer ... 1 bucket of draft red wine in any cheap bar was 2-3 euro in my last trip there, try any "osteria" or any bar in the suburbs, and in supermarkets you can buy 1 bottle for 1 euro or even less if there are promotions.

i can't blame arrogant tourists when surrounded by thugs and con artists, that's rome in a nutshell unless you know the score.

and they dont speak italian in rome, they speak Roman.

yes, 1 euro is the norm for coffee everywhere, unless in p.zza san marco etc ...then it can be up to 10 euro or whatever ... but they dont target normal tourist there, the high price is to keep us away actually.

meat : mostly in the north, not much in the south, no idea why as in spain greece and turkey or even Lebanon it's ALL about meat !

pizza : yes, 5-6 euro up, everywhere.

meals : 25-100 euro for two.. yes ... you can have it a bit better if you know the score but not much, the golden days of cheap italy are gone since a long time ! even the south is expensive now.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: Lagereek on July 10, 2012, 08:55
Thats just it!  the Scandinavian welfare system is as unsustainable as IS :D, and its been like it for years and years. During these socialdemocratic party in power it was more profitable to live on welfare then go to work, crazy!. At least now, with the slightly more conservatives, it pays to go to work.

Apart from that, theres no country left in Europe to shout about, they are all in trouble, everyone of them, exept Norway and Switzerland but again, boring and introverted people. Its all sheit, same goes for the entire Africa, Asia, middle-east, china and Japan, all sheit!
This leaves Australia, NZ, USA and Canada. I wont even count South-America where your under the gun from local generals and kartells, etc.

Blimey!  what a future, fellas, what a future.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 10, 2012, 09:08

Great stuff! I can respond now since I'm getting ready for a cup of tea with my friends. We're gonna discuss some politics too and what those * commies liberals are up to.

hahaha i'm so right wing i'm bouncing back to the left actually.

as for politics, the only politics in travel photography is being a witness of places in perpetual change and turmoil, our photos are a message to the next generations and will talk a 100 words.

rule nr.1,local politics is not your business, do your job, and shut the F up.

i could write a book about my travels and what i've seen around the globe, and yet what i really know after all ? all i'm doing is living outside the "bubble" where you and the others are scared to escape.
Title: Re: Traveling to 3rd world countries(where can you go that's not expensive&dangerous
Post by: antistock on July 10, 2012, 09:18
Thats just it!  the Scandinavian welfare system is as unsustainable as IS :D, and its been like it for years and years. During these socialdemocratic party in power it was more profitable to live on welfare then go to work, crazy!. At least now, with the slightly more conservatives, it pays to go to work.

Apart from that, theres no country left in Europe to shout about, they are all in trouble, everyone of them, exept Norway and Switzerland but again, boring and introverted people. Its all sheit, same goes for the entire Africa, Asia, middle-east, china and Japan, all sheit!
This leaves Australia, NZ, USA and Canada. I wont even count South-America where your under the gun from local generals and kartells, etc.

Blimey!  what a future, fellas, what a future.

in fact i'm not surprised Breivik is from Norway !
despite all the crap the medias thrown in his face he's gotta become a hero or at least a national icon in 50 yrs from now.

i can see the people at the bar calling him "the only one who had the balls to do it" etc etc and yes it's gonna be like that
just wait and see, isn't the UK a bad enough living example of bad immigration policy and crazy welfare laws ?

yes the whole of europe is in deep sh-it but i'm actually happy about this, a good old kick in the as-s is the only way to
wake them up from their sleep.

boring, introverted, it depends it depends, they all change quickly when they come here down south with cheap girls and cheap booze.
i think in the end like for the rest of the western world it's all a matter of sexual repression along with a mix of bigotry, indoctrination, rubbish, and leftist bullsh-its.