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Author Topic: Trump has the rona  (Read 6603 times)

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« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2020, 05:22 »
+1



The fact is that the electoral college was designed to give conservatives a bigger voice than their actual numbers should give them, and that legacy continues today, with Republican losers becoming president anyway. All other offices use the popular vote...theres absolutely no reason for the presidential vote to be any different.
ah, your mistaken belief is that conservatives were the slave owners in the first place.
?


« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2020, 05:51 »
+2
The electoral college has nothing to do with preventing repression in the way described. No one with a knowledge of history would make that argument in good faith.

It has to do with preventing people electing a despot. Electors can act as a break to the election of a loony populist (using the term in it's current colloquial usage, not a historically accurate use of the term populist).

The electors should represent the number of voters in a state. They only dont due to demographic changes and the way slave owners managed to get slaves counted as Shelma said.

The only people making the argument that it is preventing tyranny of the majority in the way described in this thread are people that are either ignorant, or like Tucker Carlson, simply making the argument cynically so their team can hold on to power (incidentally Fox has just once again made the defence in open court that you would have to be a ****ing idiot to believe anything they say https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-karen-mcdougal-case-tucker-carlson-2020-9?r=US&IR=T and people are still spouting this nonsense and watching that ***p, why any grown up wants to spoken to like they are a pet dog or toddler is beyond me).

There is literally no reason the Electoral college shouldnt be rebalanced every four years to reflect the size of population in each state.

Here is a brief intro for anyone interested https://www.history.com/news/electoral-college-founding-fathers-constitutional-convention

So yeah, theres valid reasons as to why it exists, but the current weighting is based on slavery and racism.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 06:01 by Justanotherphotographer »

« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2020, 06:12 »
0
Although the 51st state is not achieved right now, it is known that it is a matter of years that the population movement turns in favor of an unfavorable electoral count of the red.

You can spend your whole life arguing, always the same arguments. The same.

Now with the virus there is death and the end of world hegemony.


The USA does not count abroad, since it is known that it can appoint anyone as president.

From here, decades of suffering, starting next month, that the world will experience many deaths from covid, in a historic autumn and winter.



It doesn't matter if you don't want civil war, or separate the country. Trump has managed to unite the country, being blue. And leaving the irrecoverable red lights, smaller and smaller, isolated and silenced.

EU forced multinationals to expel and remove the Hate Speech from the internet. Therefore, your minds begin to hear more news and less nonsense.

For decades, until the lost generations of mind disappear from this world, the hatred will continue. Decades.

The solution, as Trump, well knows, is to put the flag in the school and explain his concept of Patriot, or else, teach the children that two men can go to school and pick up the child, and be a family.


It's a matter of decades anyway.

The multinationals do what the constitutional court did not do. Nobody wants to legislate hatred, simply, it must be eliminated from the public exaltation of hatred.


Your minors are being attacked with negative information.


Decades, a problem to be solved today. If you want and you feel like it.

Trump has revealed something that was clear, like every empire, an empire without health, dies. Now the rich also want healthy people to serve them dinner. The little red lights will already learn what it is to live and let live.

The majority no longer dares to say that they vote for Trump, it is not fashionable.

Only four with flags make noise, paid.

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« Reply #53 on: October 05, 2020, 08:22 »
+3



The fact is that the electoral college was designed to give conservatives a bigger voice than their actual numbers should give them, and that legacy continues today, with Republican losers becoming president anyway. All other offices use the popular vote...theres absolutely no reason for the presidential vote to be any different.
ah, your mistaken belief is that conservatives were the slave owners in the first place.

Ah, that old chestnut... which you've got wrong! What you meant to say was was the 'mistaken belief that the Republicans were the slave owners', not the conservatives. It was always the conservatives who defended slavery, they just went by a different name back then. 

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #54 on: October 05, 2020, 10:45 »
+4

Ah, that old chestnut... which you've got wrong! What you meant to say was was the 'mistaken belief that the Republicans were the slave owners', not the conservatives. It was always the conservatives who defended slavery, they just went by a different name back then.

Yeah, Southern Democrats?

Oh wait they traded an end to Reconstruction, and removal of Federal troops after the Civil War, for the Presidency, gave it to the Republicans. Those wonderful Democrats who didn't want to end slavery, didn't want equal rights, the same people who not only oppressed the Blacks but segregated them, blocked voting rights, and didn't want school integration.

The South had extra seats in the Electoral College because of its slaves. Yeah those slave owners again and the Democrats. Eight of the first nine presidential elections were won by candidates who were plantation owners from Virginia, then Americas biggest state. Note for those from other countries who like to dabble in being critical of American politics, Virginia was on the Confederacy side of the secession and the civil war.

The Republican Party, was founded in 1848 with the abolition of slavery as its core mission. Almost immediately after its second presidential candidate, Abraham Lincoln, won the 1860 election, Democrat-controlled southern states seceded on the assumption that Lincoln would destroy their slave-based economies.

After the Republicans dragged the South and the Democrats, by their heels, into equal legal rights for all American citizens, allowing blacks to vote and an end to segregation, then the Democrats suddenly became the party of the minorities? Wow what a bunch of hypocrites. They didn't desegregate the party until the middle 1960s.

Civil Rights Act of 1964: House support 61% Democrat, 81% Republican. Senate 69% Democrat, 82% Republican. Democrats in the same era were also against granting voting rights to Blacks.

Biden speaking in 1975, advocated continued school segregation in the United States, arguing that it benefited minorities and that integration would prevent black people from embracing their own identity.

Don't believe the re-writing of history, without looking at the documented facts.

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« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2020, 11:07 »
+4
Yeah, you seem to have completely missed the point of my post! I'm not debating any of that, but back in the day the republicans were liberal and the democrats were conservative. Shelma got a bit confused and was trying to imply that liberals were the slave owners and conservatives were the ones fighting for abolition... when the truth is that the democrats were slave owners and the republicans were fighting for abolition. That would be splitting hairs if Republicans were still liberal and democrats were still conservative... but they're not. From around the 1930s to the 1960s there was near enough a complete role reversal.

But yeah, Republicans love to roll out that old argument every once in a while... as some kind of evidence that the republican party is fair, and just and wonderful. But it's not 1860 any more. Things have changed... considerably. The majority of modern-day Republicans would want nothing to do with the Republicans of the 1800s.

Shelma1

« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2020, 13:29 »
+2
Yeah, you seem to have completely missed the point of my post! I'm not debating any of that, but back in the day the republicans were liberal and the democrats were conservative. Shelma got a bit confused and was trying to imply that liberals were the slave owners and conservatives were the ones fighting for abolition... when the truth is that the democrats were slave owners and the republicans were fighting for abolition. That would be splitting hairs if Republicans were still liberal and democrats were still conservative... but they're not. From around the 1930s to the 1960s there was near enough a complete role reversal.

But yeah, Republicans love to roll out that old argument every once in a while... as some kind of evidence that the republican party is fair, and just and wonderful. But it's not 1860 any more. Things have changed... considerably. The majority of modern-day Republicans would want nothing to do with the Republicans of the 1800s.

I didn't get confused. I called them conservatives and slave owners, which they were at the time, and said today Republican losers go to the White House, which is true, because today conservatives are called Republicans. We all know the Democratic and Republican parties flipped, and the slave-owning conservatives who were once called Democrats are now called Republicans.

At least we in the U.S. know that...someone who's from Australia is here trying to correct my knowledge of U.S. history and has watched a few right-leaning videos about the electoral college, so she "feels" she knows the electoral college better than Americans, and also feels the need to "correct" me with her sparse misunderstanding of it. That's what happens when you watch far right propaganda videos and don't understand another country's history.

Shelma1

« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2020, 13:53 »
+4



The fact is that the electoral college was designed to give conservatives a bigger voice than their actual numbers should give them, and that legacy continues today, with Republican losers becoming president anyway. All other offices use the popular vote...theres absolutely no reason for the presidential vote to be any different.
ah, your mistaken belief is that conservatives were the slave owners in the first place.

No, my correct knowledge that conservatives were slave owners. Before the 1960's conservatives were called Democrats, but the parties flipped, and today conservatives are called Republicans. They may have a different name, but they're the same set of people who declared war on their own country in order to keep slavery alive, who created the electoral college to count their slaves as 3/5 of a person when they voted so they'd have outsized power, and still try today to push everyone who isn't white and male aside. And that includes trying every trick in the book to keep black people from voting...the descendants of the very people they once counted as 3/5 of a person when they cast their votes.

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« Reply #58 on: October 05, 2020, 14:05 »
+3
I didn't get confused.

Wait... I got confused! I get it now. I thought it was you that said the "...your mistaken belief is that conservatives were the slave owners..." thing, but I see that was Gillian's post now. That's why I was all like 'well, actually...'

Sorry!

« Reply #59 on: October 05, 2020, 18:08 »
0

 
The electoral college was formed because slave owners in the south wanted more power. The southern states had far fewer white male landowners than states in the north. So slave owner James Madison came up with the electoral college, which at the time counted each slave as 3/5 of a person. Of course, slaves couldnt vote...only white male landowners could. But they were added to their masters vote anyway, without their knowledge and against their will. The electoral college was all about slavery.

California wasnt part of the United States at the time, and wouldnt become a state for decades. So nobody was worried about New York and California having all the power. Today, California, Texas and Florida are the three most populous states...one blue, the other two red. And California didnt turn blue until the 1990s, almost 150 years after it became part of the United States. So please stop the nonsense about New York and California having all the power.

The fact is that the electoral college was designed to give conservatives a bigger voice than their actual numbers should give them, and that legacy continues today, with Republican losers becoming president anyway. All other offices use the popular vote...theres absolutely no reason for the presidential vote to be any different.
It was the Senate, not the electoral college that formed the 'great compromise' with southern slave-owners.  The EC was devised by both North & South reasoning well beyond the slave question. They believed that those they called 'mechanics' (proto-working class artisans, tradesmen ,carpenters, etc) could not govern since they lacked property & education   

From Jeffrey Rosen's Atlantic article:
>>>
To prevent factions from distorting public policy and threatening liberty, Madison resolved to exclude the people from a direct role in government. .. [and explained further in the Federalist Papers, particularly #1] ...The Framers designed the American constitutional system not as a direct democracy but as a representative republic, where enlightened delegates of the people would serve the public good.

The Senate would comprise natural aristocrats chosen by state legislators rather than elected by the people. And rather than directly electing the chief executive, the people would vote for wise electorsthat is, propertied white menwho would ultimately choose a president of the highest character and most discerning judgment.
<<<
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/10/james-madison-mob-rule/568351/

« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2020, 18:22 »
+3
  ..,.

Civil Rights Act of 1964: House support 61% Democrat, 81% Republican. Senate 69% Democrat, 82% Republican. Democrats in the same era were also against granting voting rights to Blacks....

but the 'democrats' were a divided party &  it was the democratic president, LBJ who pushed thru Civil Rights & voter rights bills in '64 & '65

the republican party of the time contained both moderates & conservatives - people like rockefeller, hatfield, lindsay, brooke & javits

it was the dixie-crats who opposed LBJ and largely transmogrified into republicans under Nixon's southern strategy in the late 60sd.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 18:47 by cascoly »

« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2020, 18:30 »
0
when the truth is that the democrats were slave owners and the republicans were fighting for abolition. That would be splitting hairs if Republicans were still liberal and democrats were still conservative... but they're not. From around the 1930s to the 1960s there was near enough a complete role reversal. ... The majority of modern-day Republicans would want nothing to do with the Republicans of the 1800s.
only about 1/4 of southerners were slave owners

and the republicans were late comers to abolition, since the party didnt form til just before the civil war - for years there had been people like J Quincy Adams, Henry Clay, Daniel Webster who led congressional battles of the 1820s and onward

« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2020, 18:32 »
0
...
Before the 1960's conservatives were called Democrats, but the parties flipped, and today conservatives are called Republicans.
...

FDR??

« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2020, 18:46 »
+1
... No one with a knowledge of history would make that argument in good faith.

It has to do with preventing people electing a despot. Electors can act as a break to the election of a loony populist (using the term in it's current colloquial usage, not a historically accurate use of the term populist).

The electors should represent the number of voters in a state. They only dont due to demographic changes and the way slave owners managed to get slaves counted as Shelma said.

No one with a knowledge of history would make that argument in good faith.
The electoral college was NEVER designed to represent all the people in a state.

Quote
The only people making the argument that it is preventing tyranny of the majority in the way described in this thread are people that are either ignorant..

people like James Madison who makes precisely that argument in tbe Federalist Papers?

Quote
There is literally no reason the Electoral college shouldnt be rebalanced every four years to reflect the size of population in each state.

but we DO rebalance every 10 years -- the Constitution requires a census  primarily to redistribute representatives based on changing population. but it also prevents a true rebalancing  since it gives 2 votes to states with <1,000,000 & those with >40,000,000 and that can't be changed w/o an amendment
 

« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2020, 20:10 »
0
Oh FUN, Can I play :-) Please wear a mask if you feel you need too!!! Please don't wear one if you don't feel you need to. I will love and support your free choice either way. Will I wear one, if they ask yes if they don't care no I am pretty easy to get along with. Now what are we missing from my medical training ohh you mean washing your hands is more important?? AHHH YES but go ahead and don't wash your hands grab your mask wear it to a bunch of stores keep touching it and then go out for dinner. Just remember your mask kept you safe. Or better yet wear it on your chin or below your nose and feel safe. All is good.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 20:13 by jjneff »

« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2020, 02:35 »
+2
...ohh you mean washing your hands is more important?? ...
Everything I've seen has airborne transmission as the primary form. Could you please link to a recent paper making the case that hand-washing is more important than wearing masks?

« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2020, 02:49 »
+2
... No one with a knowledge of history would make that argument in good faith.

It has to do with preventing people electing a despot. Electors can act as a break to the election of a loony populist (using the term in it's current colloquial usage, not a historically accurate use of the term populist).

The electors should represent the number of voters in a state. They only dont due to demographic changes and the way slave owners managed to get slaves counted as Shelma said.

No one with a knowledge of history would make that argument in good faith.
The electoral college was NEVER designed to represent all the people in a state.

Quote
The only people making the argument that it is preventing tyranny of the majority in the way described in this thread are people that are either ignorant..

people like James Madison who makes precisely that argument in tbe Federalist Papers?

Quote
There is literally no reason the Electoral college shouldnt be rebalanced every four years to reflect the size of population in each state.

but we DO rebalance every 10 years -- the Constitution requires a census  primarily to redistribute representatives based on changing population. but it also prevents a true rebalancing  since it gives 2 votes to states with <1,000,000 & those with >40,000,000 and that can't be changed w/o an amendment

Great response, and actually sorry for my rant especially the tone of it. I disagree with some of what you said though.

From Prof. G. Alan Tarr of Rutgers University:
"...Another common belief is that the convention rejected popular election of the president because the delegates feared majority tyranny...But, once again, this interpretation of history is wrong. The convention did twice reject popular election of the president. But the delegates who rejected it did not object to popular elections per sethey had no problem with popular election of the House of Representatives or state legislatures. Rather, they were skeptical of a national popular election, primarily for reasons that are no longer relevant today.

First, they feared that people would lack the information to make an informed choice as to who might be an appropriate candidate for the presidency or who might be the best choice among candidates. Thus George Mason of Virginia claimed, It would be as unnatural to refer the choice of a proper candidate for chief Magistrate to the people, as it would be to refer a trial of colours to a blind man.

But his reason was that the extent of the Country renders it impossible that the people can have the requisite capacity to judge of the respective pretensions of the Candidates. In such circumstances, he thought, voters would naturally gravitate to candidates from their own state. Delegates who favored popular election replied that the increasing intercourse among the people of the states would render important characters less and less unknown, and that continental characters will multiply as we more or more coalesce, reducing state parochialism. Today, with mass communication and interminable campaigns, lack of information is no longer a problem.

Second, some southern delegates feared that popular election of the president would disadvantage their states. James Madison noted that, given less restrictive voting laws, the right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern states, which would give them an advantage in a popular election. Beyond that, a popular vote would not count the disenfranchised enslaved population, reducing southern influence.

The Electoral College solved both those problems, awarding electoral votes based on a states population, not its electorate, and importing the three-fifths compromise into presidential elections. The effects were immediate and dramaticin 1800 John Adams would have defeated Thomas Jefferson had only free persons been counted in awarding electoral votes. Obviously, these concerns no longer apply, although popular election would encourage states to increase their influence by expanding their electorate, while the Electoral College offers no such incentive.


Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2020, 09:31 »
+2
Oh FUN, Can I play :-) Please wear a mask if you feel you need too!!! Please don't wear one if you don't feel you need to. I will love and support your free choice either way. Will I wear one, if they ask yes if they don't care no I am pretty easy to get along with. Now what are we missing from my medical training ohh you mean washing your hands is more important?? AHHH YES but go ahead and don't wash your hands grab your mask wear it to a bunch of stores keep touching it and then go out for dinner. Just remember your mask kept you safe. Or better yet wear it on your chin or below your nose and feel safe. All is good.

Thank you for being reasonable and leaving the politics out of this.

Everyone play safe, wear your masks, wash your hands, and think of the other people, who might be more seriously effected health-wise if someone selfish is inconsiderate and doesn't care if they transmit or cause a big outbreak. One of the local deniers got the virus and he had no symptoms, he works food delivery. Imagine that, someone going from store to store passing on the virus to destination after destination.

Yes, I do agree, it is free choice, but I advocate that people be responsible and think of someone elderly or with a weaker immune system, that catching Covid-19 could kill them. That's beyond oneself and why people should do the right things and be careful, not because there's a mandate, or because they reject the mandate.

« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2020, 10:45 »
0
Oh FUN, Can I play :-) Please wear a mask if you feel you need too!!! Please don't wear one if you don't feel you need to. I will love and support your free choice either way. Will I wear one, if they ask yes if they don't care no I am pretty easy to get along with. Now what are we missing from my medical training ohh you mean washing your hands is more important?? AHHH YES but go ahead and don't wash your hands grab your mask wear it to a bunch of stores keep touching it and then go out for dinner. Just remember your mask kept you safe. Or better yet wear it on your chin or below your nose and feel safe. All is good.

Thank you for being reasonable and leaving the politics out of this.

Everyone play safe, wear your masks, wash your hands, and think of the other people, who might be more seriously effected health-wise if someone selfish is inconsiderate and doesn't care if they transmit or cause a big outbreak. One of the local deniers got the virus and he had no symptoms, he works food delivery. Imagine that, someone going from store to store passing on the virus to destination after destination.

Yes, I do agree, it is free choice, but I advocate that people be responsible and think of someone elderly or with a weaker immune system, that catching Covid-19 could kill them. That's beyond oneself and why people should do the right things and be careful, not because there's a mandate, or because they reject the mandate.

Stop already. Should I go on a diet to lose weight for the person standing next to me who is obese? Personal responsibility. If someone is immune system-compromised, they need to stay home. Or wear a mask. Or whatever they need to do to protect themselves. And take responsibility for their own health. It isnt my responsibility to know everyones health issues and change my life to try and protect them. Reminds me of the parents who expect the whole school to give up peanuts or anything with even the smell of peanuts because their child has a peanut allergy.

If someone is scared and worried about catching a virus, THEY should stay in their bubble. The whole world shouldnt have to live in bubbles. Where does it stop? I will demand they stop traffic on the streets whenever I drive, because Im afraid of getting hit by a car. I gain weight when I drink soda, so therefore soda should be banned for everybody. A healthy person being expected to wear a mask because of some maybe danger to someone else is just as ludicrous.

« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2020, 11:39 »
+3
Quote
maybe danger
  :o

« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2020, 11:45 »
0
Quote
maybe danger
  :o

Do 100% of people get it? No, they dont. Yes, maybe danger.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 19:17 by cathyslife »

« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2020, 11:51 »
0
Instead of repeating the well-placed beautiful words that your spirit guide indicates to misinform you every morning on Twitter, to everyone you can, I must tell you to take the calculator with that 1% of Americans that you have left.

Spend less time spreading misinformation and meditate. But I do not think they will let her or she can, her denials mind does not allow it, it is due to the cause.

I don't think he will change his mind, but society is isolating him, there are very few of you left. Every day less, and when the right to information is legislated, and fake News are punished, society will enact less nonsense. You have no solution, but the minors do. Minors must be isolated from such cheap comic characters who parrot misinformation.

Take good care of yourself, the great patriot and strong American, viruses do not affect you. The flag protects you. To you and yours.

Fortunately, Americans perceive the danger to health and the great risk they live for people who think like you. It is because of you, thank you, that the purge of the uninformed has begun. The manipulation has reached millions of Americans, think that Trump has become President of the USA.

« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2020, 12:22 »
+4
Quote
maybe danger
  :o

Do 100% of people get it? Yes, maybe danger.

Not everyting in life is a political war. Trump has a huge team of doctors for himself. We don't.

« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2020, 12:33 »
+1
One in three American athletes is suspected of having problems with the nervous system, organs such as the heart, and it is a virus that is unknown.

If you think Trump is safe, the answer is NO. Theater and more theater. The next few hours are essential to know its real state. As for the physical consequences, after January, he will have to queue at Obamacare to be treated while he goes to the extensive list of lawsuits that accumulate.

« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2020, 13:02 »
0



The fact is that the electoral college was designed to give conservatives a bigger voice than their actual numbers should give them, and that legacy continues today, with Republican losers becoming president anyway. All other offices use the popular vote...theres absolutely no reason for the presidential vote to be any different.
ah, your mistaken belief is that conservatives were the slave owners in the first place.

No, my correct knowledge that conservatives were slave owners. Before the 1960's conservatives were called Democrats, but the parties flipped, and today conservatives are called Republicans. They may have a different name, but they're the same set of people who declared war on their own country in order to keep slavery alive, who created the electoral college to count their slaves as 3/5 of a person when they voted so they'd have outsized power, and still try today to push everyone who isn't white and male aside. And that includes trying every trick in the book to keep black people from voting...the descendants of the very people they once counted as 3/5 of a person when they cast their votes.

The parties never flipped. That's the biggest myth perpetrated by the left because they're so ashamed of their history. The Democrats are the party of slavery, KKK and Jim Crow. All they did was change their strategy, but they still used the same tactics today. If you look at the values of the Republican party for the last 100 years, the values are still the same. Instead of keeping blacks on the plantation, Democrats just keep them on welfare and public assistance. Shifting from one from of control to another.



 

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