Quote from: Minsc on October 02, 2020, 13:56

Both candidates knew how the Electoral College works. The popular vote never mattered.
...

the point is the system is undemocratic & a long way from 1 person: 1 vote
doesnt change the fact that it is tilted towards red (republican) states

eg:

WA state (blue) has 7.5 million pop  w 10 representatives + 2 senators = 12 electoral votes
 
ID, ND, SD, WY, MT,UT has SAME pop and 10 representatives, but TWELVE senators = 22 electoral votes

The US is not a pure democracy. It's a Federal Republic and it has been for centuries. You will not find the word "democracy" anywhere in the Constitution. There is a reason why it's called The United States of America.

A pure democracy is not an effective form of government. It's basically 2 wolves and a sheep trying to determine what to have for dinner.

Quote from: Minsc on October 02, 2020, 15:37

Quote from: Shelma1 on October 02, 2020, 15:28

Quote from: Minsc on October 02, 2020, 15:16

Quote from: Shelma1 on October 02, 2020, 14:09

Quote from: Minsc on October 02, 2020, 13:56

Both candidates knew how the Electoral College works. The popular vote never mattered.

One candidate campaigned in the battleground states and the other was too busy mingling with celebrities. Blame the candidate who mingled with celebrities instead of the one doing actual campaigning.

Knowing the game is rigged doesn�t make the game not rigged. The fact remains that the electoral college is unfair and was purposely designed to be unfair. To make one team always have to fight an uphill battle while the other continually coasts downhill is ridiculous. Why do the Republicans need an unfair advantage? I wonder.

Nothing is rigged. Hillary got over-confident and she paid the price for her arrogance. If she bothered to visit the battleground states instead of staging concerts with celebrities, she would have won. Her defeat falls squarely on her shoulders. The EC is just an excuse for her incompetence.

You see it as being unfair, but many people see fair and equal representation for the states. Federalism protects state sovereignty and the Electoral College is an extension of it. It protects the farmers and the interest of individual states instead of having a bunch of coasters living in bubbles determine the direction for the rest of the country.

The mental gymnastic conservatives go through to defend an inherently unfair system are entertaining, I guess.

This article came out 2 days before 2016 elections. The purpose was to make Trump look bad for not having much celebrity support. It basically details all the concerts and events Hillary had planned with celebrities. They mentioned how Trump was focused on the swing states while Hillary ignored it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/us/politics/campaign-trump-clinton.html

Hillary had the 2016 election in the bag. A series of campaign blunders cost her the election. If you want to blame anyone, blame the person who failed to connect with the people. Hillary played a game of chess and lost and then complained that it wasn't a game of checkers.

She got more votes than any white man in the history of presidential elections, 3 million more than the orange nutcase, 10 million more than Reagan, 18 million more than Nixon, almost 20 million more than her own husband did when he won, yet Trump sits in the white house. The electoral college cost her the election. The electoral college is the reason candidates have to pander to a teeny tiny slice of the electorate instead of the majority of us. The electoral college is why Dubya �won� despite Gore getting more votes. Hillary played a game of chess where the opposing side has two queens and she has none, but it�s her fault for not winning even when she wins. Again, your mental gymnastics are sort of entertaining, but the fact is that the electoral college is stacked unfairly in favor of conservatives, as it was designed to be. And that shows so clearly the morals of this country�s conservatives.

The population grow over time... I know, crazy. I've been stating nothing but facts. I think you're the one with the mental gymnastics because you still can't accept the results of the election or the blunders of Hillary's campaign. Anyone blaming the EC for Hillary's defeat is like someone blaming a cloud for raining on them when they knew it was going to rain beforehand.

i do not agree the way he leads the situation. such a huge death toll....
Anyway I wish a nice recovery to everybody who caught covid. USA president too. no exception. 
peace

You mean, that the covid will disappear after the elections and that it is an invention of the left to blame Trum?

I know what you think, by the system, you call an invasion to some desperate people who knew they were not going to cross, and did not cross the border, as it should be.

However, you had your weapon ready to defend the barbecue from the march of women and children. Maybe that's not your ideas? They are by system, systematic repetition of the Bot, eat brains. You love the flag, but you don't care about the deceased from NY, LA, residents of Canada, Baltimore, .... maybe I'm wrong?


Your arguments are so repeated that I know them by heart. Maybe that's not your position?
We have gone from the left, burning cities if Trump wins, to not make a peaceful transition of power. Obviously, the USA is on the right and the Hippies wanting to steal the country from you.

Definitely, you must solve the problem now. Thus, the new generations will have an opportunity to create a country where they can live, instead of hating.
As for climate change, no, it is not an invention of the left to make money.

However, it is possible that you will never evolve, that is, your mind will not change.
Therefore, the USA has said NO. And the change is underway.

It is very sad, that there are adults, that they still compare it to the flu.

It is known where the problem lies in the USA.

If you look at the press of the misnamed Spanish flu, you will see that the second wave was brutal, because the freedom of the alpha male was taken to the judge with his mouth uncovered. And many years have passed to improve these feelings.

 

hmm, i was watching a video of Peak Prosperity (actual scientist dude who is non-partisan who has been across this since February) and he shows the 2nd wave of the 'spanish" flu (actually called The Asian Flu in the usa at the time) wasn't as harsh, due to a multitude of factors.    well worth a look at his videos if you love actual data.

We are in 2020 and the information, the data, depends on the country and other factors. Of this pandemic, and of other things. The information from 100 years ago depends on factors as well.
There is a lot written about the great flu pandemic,...... this one works for me, with links to data from US sources.

https://factual.afp.com/la-segunda-ola-de-gripe-espanola-fue-la-mas-letal-pero-no-porque-la-gente-se-despreocupara


My thought is that citizens did not want to wear masks 100 years ago in the USA, which is remarkable in some cities. Like now, it was taken to court. The virus seems to have mutated, and the sanitary and feeding conditions were other conditions.

I was struck by the fact that it was brought before the judge, as an abuse to force people to wear masks, as it happens now.

Very grateful for your comment.


Thanks for your comment. I'll look at that reference of yours.

In the USA you can talk about the second wave, in NY, and specific points. In WI, for example, they have never rounded the curve a bit, therefore it is a Tsunami.

If the curve was never peaked, I don't know what to call that. Wisconsin has areas of high concentration of cases, out in the country, less.

https://www.fox6now.com/news/hundreds-turn-out-for-a-flag-day-celebration-parade-in-waubeka



I'm the one with the orange drum and Valerie is waving a flag, behind the color guard. No one wore masks. People fought the closings and small business, bars, re-opened with caution. Many restaurants are still order by phone, curbside.

Milwaukee - 948,000 Pop.
30,092
545
-
Dane (State Capitol)
10,812
43
-
Brown - Green Bay
10,589
69
-
Waukesha - Next to Milwaukee
8,802
93
-
Racine
5,713
98
-
Outagamie
5,645
32
-
Winnebago
4,893
34
-
Kenosha
4,121
68
-
La Crosse
3,427
4
-

Ozaukee
1,553
20

We live in Ozaukee County,  population 86,395, those numbers are since March. The first death was in a nursing home, where a worker from Milwaukee, brought the disease in. They went full lockdown after that. Valerie works elderly care, some in residential some in homes. She takes a quiz every day and everyone is monitored, entering and leaving. Travel is restricted. We can't go to Illinois without coming back and self quarantine for 14 days. Her clients aren't supposed to leave the state, or they will be on 14 day quarantine.

    Wisconsin residents ages five and older are required to wear a face-covering when they are indoors or in an enclosed space with anyone outside their household or living unit.
    Face coverings are strongly recommended if you are outdoors and maintaining physical distancing is not possible.
    Exceptions to the requirement include when an individual is eating, drinking, or swimming.
    Individuals with health conditions or disabilities that would preclude the wearing of a face-covering safely are also exempt from the requirement.

Ozaukee county has decided not to enforce the mask order. BUT... Yes I wear a mask, to shop at any business, checking in to work, and in any enclosed public place. Not when we go out to eat or get a drink. I got tested two weeks ago, negative.    Most people are wearing masks and all stores have signs on the door that masks are required.

There, instead of late second hand news, with a spin, those are the facts.

@ Uncle Pete

Thanks, I know the WI data. I look at them three times a day. Thank you.

My girlfriend is from WI

History repeats itself, looting is a repetition of other riots. It is something to study, something in the collective is turned on, and the masses loot.

Soldiers from other countries are also very interested in the conflict.

The far right infiltrated, breaking glass.



Anti-fascists would not exist if there were no fascists.

The Russian Communists who instilled in you at school have done you a lot of harm. Confusing left as a bad thing.

A few years ago, to divide the planet with Russia, the USA fought against fascism. It is incredible, that it is an export nest to the Swedish elections, Brexit and domestic success, and the others, submissive, because silence them is censorship. And the censorship of the insults to the difference, that is the right to freedom of manipulation, excuse me, the right to freedom of expression.

Dictatorships are all bad.

Surely the virus was spread in the streets in the revolt for justice and the oppression of the citizen. Also in the rallies of Trump and the children asking that the garden stores open, preventing the passage of ambulances. Showing his weapons in the Capitol.

The virus is very clever, it doesn't understand hatred. The virus has disunited you much more. Therefore, the problem of hatred must be solved in order to move forward. And the time is right. A spark made the town take to the street. You don't like it, because the street was owned by a few.

Now, the people will make you understand what it is to live in peace. They're going to teach you what it's like to be a real patriot, not barbecue. Heroes on the streets, fighting for a country where they can live.

The people have said enough to racism, and goodbye to an ancient country.


They defend their elders from the covid and fight for a country for their children, putting their lives in danger, because they are tired.

We applaud the liberation revolt of the American people.
It was time. I never thought I'd see something so big.
There is no going back. USA is going to free itself from the stale. Welcome to today's world.

Good luck in your release.

It is exactly the same to me, those of you who think differently. Fortunately, the American people will show you the way. This is not going to stop.

Quote from: gillian vann on October 04, 2020, 04:54

Quote from: Shelma1 on October 02, 2020, 12:38

Quote from: trabuco on October 02, 2020, 10:47

Quote from: Shelma1 on October 02, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: Tenebroso on October 02, 2020, 07:07

The problem is not POTU. The American society placed him there, as president of the USA.

The electoral college placed him there. The people voted for Hillary Clinton.

Yes, but the voting system works for both candidates, both have to win in the same conditions.

In my country voting system is a s. too and so in every country I know.

Incorrect. The electoral college is unfairly tilted towards conservatives and was purposely designed that way.

i'm not american and I feel i understand the electoral college better than you do.

let me try this on you: how about we create a world government, and we have an Earth president.  great idea. ok, how shall we set it up? popular vote?  ......
can you perhaps see some flaws in that idea?  I'm sure you might be objecting to such a notion, and you clearly aren't conservative.

What you feel you understand and what you actually understand are two completely different things.

you are welcome to try to explain it... you haven't at all. i've watched plenty of videos on this subject, and i see the spin put on it too.   this system was created to avoid tyranny, and now you have NY and CA suggesting they should be the states to have all the power (via a popular vote). That's approaching a version of tyranny that the founding fathers didn't want to see.

Quote from: Shelma1 on October 04, 2020, 13:47

Quote from: gillian vann on October 04, 2020, 04:54

Quote from: Shelma1 on October 02, 2020, 12:38

Quote from: trabuco on October 02, 2020, 10:47

Quote from: Shelma1 on October 02, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: Tenebroso on October 02, 2020, 07:07

The problem is not POTU. The American society placed him there, as president of the USA.

The electoral college placed him there. The people voted for Hillary Clinton.

Yes, but the voting system works for both candidates, both have to win in the same conditions.

In my country voting system is a s. too and so in every country I know.

Incorrect. The electoral college is unfairly tilted towards conservatives and was purposely designed that way.

i'm not american and I feel i understand the electoral college better than you do.

let me try this on you: how about we create a world government, and we have an Earth president.  great idea. ok, how shall we set it up? popular vote?  ......
can you perhaps see some flaws in that idea?  I'm sure you might be objecting to such a notion, and you clearly aren't conservative.

What you feel you understand and what you actually understand are two completely different things.

you are welcome to try to explain it... you haven't at all. i've watched plenty of videos on this subject, and i see the spin put on it too.   this system was created to avoid tyranny, and now you have NY and CA suggesting they should be the states to have all the power (via a popular vote). That's approaching a version of tyranny that the founding fathers didn't want to see.

The electoral college was formed because slave owners in the south wanted more power. The southern states had far fewer white male landowners than states in the north. So slave owner James Madison came up with the electoral college, which at the time counted each slave as 3/5 of a person. Of course, slaves couldn�t vote...only white male landowners could. But they were added to their �master�s� vote anyway, without their knowledge and against their will. The electoral college was all about slavery.

California wasn�t part of the United States at the time, and wouldn�t become a state for decades. So nobody was worried about New York and California having all the power. Today, California, Texas and Florida are the three most populous states...one blue, the other two red. And California didn�t turn blue until the 1990�s, almost 150 years after it became part of the United States. So please stop the nonsense about New York and California having all the power.

The fact is that the electoral college was designed to give conservatives a bigger voice than their actual numbers should give them, and that legacy continues today, with Republican losers becoming president anyway. All other offices use the popular vote...there�s absolutely no reason for the presidential vote to be any different.