Author Topic: UFOs now called UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) Crowd Stories and photos. (Read 47424 times)

cascoly · « **Reply #100 on:** June 03, 2023, 12:54 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 02, 2023, 19:49

...
The double-slit experiment is probably the most famous experiment in quantum physics. And maybe the most puzzling one in the history of mankind so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ

In a nutshell, the act of observation/measurement of the experiment changes the result. Whatever can happen, does happen - the particle is in multiple places at the same time. Until you try to observe it. Before observation, particles have no defined properties. They are kind of "rendered" only when observed or measured. In other words, the reality is super-weird and super-crazy, until you try to observe what exactly is going on - then it immediately changes and behaves as our intuition would tell us.
...
And for what it's worth, idealism has no issues with the double-slit experiment or quantum entanglement. It is only problematic within the materialist paradigm.

thanks for the detailed explanation. while the double-slit phenomenon was shown more than 50 years ago (as part of my quantum mechanics course, eg) , the questioning of reality is a fascinating discussion that's unfolding as we learn more about consciousness, free will, etc (or on a different level, invoking the 2nd law of thermodynamics to 'prove' the need for a creator)

unfortunately, well documented effects on the quantum level are often erroneously extrapolated to the macro level - eg , to the claim that ANY scientific experiment must be distorted by the scientist observing it & therefore invalid.

but and while Schrodinger's quantum entanglement is often used to propose instantaneous travel over long distances, quantum entanglement has yielded results in the Newtonian world -- a layman's discussion appeared in Scientific American after the 2022 Nobel prize was awarded based on QE research .

but "The compulsion to interpret quantum physics concepts as prescriptions for physical reality derives from the unfortunate way we traditionally teach physics."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-entanglement-isnt-all-that-spooky-after-all1/

and then there's the question of bird migration:

"When you next see a small songbird, pause for a moment to consider that it might recently have flown thousands of kilometers, navigating with great skill using a brain weighing no more than a gram. The fact that quantum spin dynamics may have played a crucial part in its journey only compounds the awe and wonder with which we should regard these extraordinary creatures."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-birds-use-quantum-effects-to-navigate/

and
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/birds-quantum-entanglement/

Lowls · « **Reply #101 on:** June 03, 2023, 15:37 »

Quote from: cascoly on June 03, 2023, 12:54

Quote from: LDV81 on June 02, 2023, 19:49
...
The double-slit experiment is probably the most famous experiment in quantum physics. And maybe the most puzzling one in the history of mankind so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ

In a nutshell, the act of observation/measurement of the experiment changes the result. Whatever can happen, does happen - the particle is in multiple places at the same time. Until you try to observe it. Before observation, particles have no defined properties. They are kind of "rendered" only when observed or measured. In other words, the reality is super-weird and super-crazy, until you try to observe what exactly is going on - then it immediately changes and behaves as our intuition would tell us.
...
And for what it's worth, idealism has no issues with the double-slit experiment or quantum entanglement. It is only problematic within the materialist paradigm.

thanks for the detailed explanation. while the double-slit phenomenon was shown more than 50 years ago (as part of my quantum mechanics course, eg) , the questioning of reality is a fascinating discussion that's unfolding as we learn more about consciousness, free will, etc (or on a different level, invoking the 2nd law of thermodynamics to 'prove' the need for a creator)

unfortunately, well documented effects on the quantum level are often erroneously extrapolated to the macro level - eg , to the claim that ANY scientific experiment must be distorted by the scientist observing it & therefore invalid.

but and while Schrodinger's quantum entanglement is often used to propose instantaneous travel over long distances, quantum entanglement has yielded results in the Newtonian world -- a layman's discussion appeared in Scientific American after the 2022 Nobel prize was awarded based on QE research .

but "The compulsion to interpret quantum physics concepts as prescriptions for physical reality derives from the unfortunate way we traditionally teach physics."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-entanglement-isnt-all-that-spooky-after-all1/

and then there's the question of bird migration:

"When you next see a small songbird, pause for a moment to consider that it might recently have flown thousands of kilometers, navigating with great skill using a brain weighing no more than a gram. The fact that quantum spin dynamics may have played a crucial part in its journey only compounds the awe and wonder with which we should regard these extraordinary creatures."

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-birds-use-quantum-effects-to-navigate/

and
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/birds-quantum-entanglement/

Do you genuinely believe in a creator 🤔

YadaYadaYada · « **Reply #102 on:** June 04, 2023, 12:51 »

Watch out lowls you know what happened to JFK and rfk and the Marilyn Monroe for knowing too much. Art Bell didn't end his show because of anything but the facts that he knew too much and they silenced him.

YadaYadaYada · « **Reply #103 on:** June 04, 2023, 12:54 »

Quote from: Lowls on May 30, 2023, 18:35

Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 30, 2023, 11:33
Quote from: Lowls on May 29, 2023, 13:37
Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 29, 2023, 13:16
Quote from: Big Toe on May 26, 2023, 05:35
Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 22, 2023, 12:02
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.

They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.

If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.

All bases loaded.
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.

At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.

This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.

But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.

What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you.

My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.

A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.

In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.

And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.

Not me but I agree with some of the things you state. The repeatable crap is .. but I'll deal with that later.
So what's important here is your claim about radar readings.

Please explain more and also can you please give your qualifications in radar operation specifically of that used on the Nimitz so that the explanation is in context and your skepticism has a solid foundation. Thanks in advance.

What are your qualifications as an air force pilot, the cameras used on navy jets or space travel. Just so I know you have the experience in context and education to know more about aliens and ufos and the secret government. Do you work for the CIA or FBI?

Lowls · « **Reply #104 on:** June 04, 2023, 14:01 »

Quote from: YadaYadaYada on June 04, 2023, 12:54

Quote from: Lowls on May 30, 2023, 18:35
Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 30, 2023, 11:33
Quote from: Lowls on May 29, 2023, 13:37
Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 29, 2023, 13:16
Quote from: Big Toe on May 26, 2023, 05:35
Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 22, 2023, 12:02
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.

They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.

If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.

All bases loaded.
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.

At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.

This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.

But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.

What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you.

My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.

A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.

In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.

And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.

Not me but I agree with some of the things you state. The repeatable crap is .. but I'll deal with that later.
So what's important here is your claim about radar readings.

Please explain more and also can you please give your qualifications in radar operation specifically of that used on the Nimitz so that the explanation is in context and your skepticism has a solid foundation. Thanks in advance.

What are your qualifications as an air force pilot, the cameras used on navy jets or space travel. Just so I know you have the experience in context and education to know more about aliens and ufos and the secret government. Do you work for the CIA or FBI?

1. Pilot - none
2.Cameras specified- none
3. CIA or FBI credentials- none

More than happy to answer.

Now ... appreciate the question ... but I'm wondering why. I'm not making the claims if that is why. I am repeating the information stated by the various military personnel involved and their superiors and those who's role it was to deal with the incidents mentioned regarding the military and equipment. I believe I have kept to within what a non involved/trained person could other than what is public record. And I have deferred to their knowledge. Because they are extremely credible witnesses, they were there.

cascoly · « **Reply #105 on:** June 05, 2023, 12:23 »

Quote from: Lowls on June 04, 2023, 14:01

... And I have deferred to their knowledge. Because they are extremely credible witnesses, they were there.

as the Innocence project & many other studies have shown, eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable

Lowls · « **Reply #106 on:** June 05, 2023, 13:17 »

Quote from: cascoly on June 05, 2023, 12:23

Quote from: Lowls on June 04, 2023, 14:01
... And I have deferred to their knowledge. Because they are extremely credible witnesses, they were there.

as the Innocence project & many other studies have shown, eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable

Totally agree. However we increase its accuracy if there are certain criteria.
1. Daylight.
2. Instrument co-oberation.
3. Multiple witnesses.
4. Repeated sightings.
5. Trained observers. This has a specific definition.
6. Witness has a lot to lose.

David Fravor was sent to investigate that craft by his superiors based on repeated radar and other sensor data over a prolonged time. He wasn't the only witness. He wasn't the only witness on that day. He wasn't the only witness in that group and he wasn't the only witness over a prolonged period of time.
It was on radar.
On film.
Visually sighted repeatedly my numerous trained observers with a lit to lose in credibility.

This is enough evidence to prove a craft of unknown origin was flying repeatedly with other craft over a prolonged period of time. It isnt a delusion to trust that data. It is incredibly disgusting to toss it aside. And no one here is qualified to call those officers out. no one. Unless they were there and use that gear. Like the 17 million dollar jet they gave a delusional man.

Lowls · « **Reply #107 on:** June 06, 2023, 05:48 »

Breaking news and to be released this week in full. Ex senior inteligence officer blows whistle. Keep watch this week. Details here - https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM

"cosmic watergate" ... "serious criminal acts in the name of national security" ... "Non Human Inteligence and vehicle retrieval" 😳

After hearing some of it, it does appear he has done so with the permission of the American Defence Department. So less a whistle blower and more a ... erm ... well a announcer?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/amp/

https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/

The debrief published this article detailing the shocking claims. Grusch was was interview for 7 hours by Coultard with witnesses and this will be released shortly but the debrief article was offered to the NY TImes and Washington Times and they have pushed it aside over security concerns.

Debrief article here. At Gruschs request he wanted it desceminated in written articles first and then release the Ross Coultard interview in a few days ... https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

stoker2014 · « **Reply #108 on:** June 07, 2023, 09:52 »

Quote from: Lowls on June 06, 2023, 05:48

Debrief article here. At Gruschs request he wanted it desceminated in written articles first and then release the Ross Coultard interview in a few days ... https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

former US intelligence official David Grasch, who left the Defense Department in April after a 14-year career, said the US government has complete and partially damaged vehicles of extraterrestrial origin in stock. According to him, this information is being hidden from the US Congress, but he passed this secret data to the US Parliament. After that, he came under pressure from US government officials.

Lowls · « **Reply #109 on:** June 07, 2023, 12:05 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on June 07, 2023, 09:52

Quote from: Lowls on June 06, 2023, 05:48
Debrief article here. At Gruschs request he wanted it desceminated in written articles first and then release the Ross Coultard interview in a few days ... https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/
former US intelligence official David Grasch, who left the Defense Department in April after a 14-year career, said the US government has complete and partially damaged vehicles of extraterrestrial origin in stock. According to him, this information is being hidden from the US Congress, but he passed this secret data to the US Parliament. After that, he came under pressure from US government officials.

Yeah. So in the latter part of career he was tasked to work within or maybe in charge of the UAP investigative task force. If it was AATIP they were given 22 million dollars over 5 years to go through any and all UAP reports.

They were underfunded and understaffed. Yet they allegedly revealed "stuff that would blow your mind" but (as NASA have) they discovered that much of the data was gathered by classified processes and equipment. Which in turn classified the reports and any and all footage.

Now to put that I to context NASA - we are gonna science the cr@p out of this ... their budget for investigating UFOs is up to ... $100,000.00 ... no I didn't miss a zero. That's their budget for this. Unless they get given more. That's it

Chris Mellon at some point leaked the Go Fast, gimble and Tic Tac videos to force a conversation. This almost failed.

The tipping point I've discovered was the Chinese spy balloons. People were filming them from their back gardens but the DOD said they had no evidence they existed. So an investigation revealed that the DOD had lowered the sensitivity of their advanced radar systems. The Whitehouse intervened and the sensitivity was suddenly raised. The balloons appeared and several were shot down. That said only one was identified as a balloon. It had the equivalent of 3 buses in payload dangling beneath it. Another "balloon" was shot down over Alaska. Local trappers are being interviewed because they know all the tracks and all the locations and what's frozen and not. And none of them apparently saw any military coming to get a balloon.

But when they turned tye sensitivity of their radar up - suddenly these UAP began registering. On the Nimitz they had the same experience. They could detect them. So they recalibrate all their gear ro get rid of the anomalous readings. It had the opposite effect. They showed up more.

In April David left the government and filed a whistleblower report because as Chris Mellon discovered ... these reports are examined and classified as known or unknown. Mellon approached the AARO team and members of Congress and they hadn't even been given Tic Tack etc because when the file is created it gets passes around various departments that need to see it. Deliberately one department was failing to pass the files on. In some cases files that were created were still sat in this department from 10 years previously.

Grusch filed his whistleblower report but refused to give his findings to AARO and insisted that he meet with Congress personally because he alluded to the fact that he lacked confidence in AARO and their honesty. And he states that there has been a deliberate misinformation campaign to prevent any information of significance reaching Congress.

His report was examined and investigated for its validity by the Senate Inteligence Committee and House Committee and he gave testimony under oath in classified hearings lasting for over 11 hours to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Committee. After which they categorised his evidence as "Urgent and Credible"

Further more he isn't the only one. Because David Grusch has never witnessed a UFO or touched a UFO. So he went and found the reports. The photos. The footage. And he also found the programmes names of the alleged programmes that reverse engineer craft and the other programmes. And after him there are people within these programmes waiting to come foreward to give evidence themselves. And that isn't information coming from him. That's them speaking to someone else waiting to see if DG gets anywhere.

Whatever happens now it will only get bigger. From what I've heard from those reporting on it ... there is a mad rush to slow this down or stop it. But there are too many high ranking ex officials who know all the details and this is why he felt confident in coming right out. We'll see.

Lowls · « **Reply #110 on:** June 07, 2023, 14:23 »

https://youtu.be/1gCYSsvYQPY
Quick news bite of Ryan Graves a few hours ago. He has also given testimony under oath and was the first serving pilot to do so.

cobalt · « **Reply #111 on:** June 07, 2023, 20:03 »

I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.

I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?

Lowls · « **Reply #112 on:** June 08, 2023, 01:53 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 07, 2023, 20:03

I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.

I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?

That is always the question Seth Showstak throws out there. All the universe and they choose here. I think you could look at it from several angles.

Survival. We may be less developed in every way but we may have unique physiology which has promising benefits for other races who's bodies suffer with various medical issues. Like we use slugs in make up or beetles in frosting. We could be a resource. Cattle. We could be a conservation project. 'They' could actually be us. Travelling foreward in time is easy and happens. Travelling back is the issue.

In time travel the old understanding was this:

Go back kill Hitler and save 13 million Jews. That figure was always a standard. However did he interact with certain organisations and people and create certain things that need to happen in order that as the changes take place and ripple foreward ... we don't make matters worse and more die.

The current thinking is we go back, kill Hitler and now we create two time lines. One without and the original continues on its path.

But what if the first theory was actually correct. Because 13 million Jews didn't die. 6 million did. Now this is passed off as history being examined very carefully and records being examined and and an extreme amount of work done to find the exact figure. But that was 8 million out. It is historically correct now allegedly.

But what if it isn't. What if it was 13 million. What if we have managed to unlock time travel. And because Hitler managed to interact so much and have so much influence on our world today he couldn't safely be killed. But a soldier who passed on orders could. And whilst history has almost happened in the same way, that soldiers death prevented a chemical order arriving in time and it saved 8 million. How much would you need to actually change to save 8 million. Go back, break a machine that makes chemicals. Kill a soldier who sent the orders. Kill a scientist that found a chemical compound that created the gas.
If this is true and we have then it would need to be tested extensively. So go back to the middle of nowhere and chop down a tree and watch that action ripple foreqard. Eventually you'll have to upscale your experiments. What better than to alter something subtle. Something already made up. A movie script. A story book. A poster or painting.

Once you do that you can write an article and give it a proper medical psychological name in psychology books. Call it the Mandela effect. And then monitor everyone's comments to observe how these changes are experienced.

Most won't have seen the film and won't remember the past script. Those that have swear he said a certain thing but the facts say otherwise. Even if you rememeber it for a fact going a certain way and you took a photo of a poster years ago and it's in your loft. You'll retrieve it and it too will change as the changes ripple foreward.

Our memories however are chemically stored and perhaps those chemicals are slow to react to the change in reality. So the memory is strong and then becomes faded, ethereal, and finally you just let it go and forget about it. Maybe some people's physiology can't change. It's locked in and nothing can change it. They suffer a mental sheer or episode or maybe develope dementia because their brains can't chemically change that memory. So they become scared and shout and fight ....

Maybe the aliens aren't here because we have anything they want. Maybe they are here because of what we've discovered.

Whatever the recent data would suggest they concentrate their attention around the military areas which makes sense but I believe is a false data set. The military are looking more with more gear so they see them more. Like a person who buys a make of car suddenly sees how many there are on the road. Nothing changed other than awareness.

We shall apparently fins out more on Sunday. Not sure of the time. They've created a wen address to view it which says it isn't watchable in Europe due to gdpr. But it'll be on utube hopefully.

For non Europe watch it here www.joinnn.com

Lowls · « **Reply #113 on:** June 08, 2023, 02:32 »

The Mandela Effect is an observed phenomenon in which a large segment of the population misremembers a significant event or shares a memory of an event that did not actually occur

Nelson Mandela, who this theory is named after, died in 2013. However, countless people distinctly remember him dying in prison in the 1980s. I do not personally but he was a passing event I barely remember. Maybe those closer to the event have a stronger or more solid memory which resist the ripple.

for example ...

"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore,” ... apparently incorrect. I can see her say it.

Sex in the City was factually Sex and the City.

Febreeze spray is actually and has always been febreze.

The monopoly man never had a monocle 🧐

Sketchers shoes didn't have a t. Skechers is has always been.

Kellogs Fruit Loops never existed and has always been Froot Loops.

Pikachu's tail ... is all yellow and doesn't have a black tip.

Cheese itz crackers was actually Cheese it. Makes sense?

Double Stuff Oreos .... nope ... double stuf. one f.

C3PO of star wars isn't gold. Most of him is but not his right leg from the knee down. Which is silver.

Cinderellas Castle in Disneyland. Afraid not. That's Disney world. The castle in Disneyland is sleeping beauties.

"Play it again Sam" in Casablanca ... is never uttered. The words are "Play it once, Sam. For old times' sake.". I personally can see Humphrey Bogart saying it. I can see him saying it angrily whilst holding a cigarette like a pencil. It wasn't even him saying it 😳. I'm not the only one.

Have a think where New Zealand is in relation to Australia. North East? North West. In fact South East. Its true.

Loads more out there.

Maybe they make a slight change over time. Like tye one between my mother and I last week.
People in the UK will remember Dime Bar ... as an insult by Harry Enfield. After the chocolate bar. In fact it's Daim Bar. They aren't called Dime Bars. Never have been.

Relax they were lol. They did change their name ro Daim Bar though. in ... 2005 😳😳😳 wtaf.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #114 on:** June 08, 2023, 02:43 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 07, 2023, 20:03

I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.

I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?

They want to help democratic countries in the war against evil.

LDV81 · « **Reply #115 on:** June 08, 2023, 12:31 »

Quote from: cobalt on June 07, 2023, 20:03

I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.
I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?

What are human scientists doing in the jungles of the Amazon or in Antarctica? Exploring, observing and cataloging stuff.

I am not saying that extraterrestrial / inter-dimensional / extratemporal / ultraterrestrial entities are doing the same on Earth, but it is just one of possible motivations. Intelligent lifeforms probably tend to be curious. Or at least a certain percentage of them is very curious. Even cats are extremely curious of their surroundings and always want "to boldly go where no cat has gone before".

Big Toe · « **Reply #116 on:** June 08, 2023, 15:49 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 02, 2023, 19:49

The double-slit experiment is probably the most famous experiment in quantum physics. And maybe the most puzzling one in the history of mankind so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ

In a nutshell, the act of observation/measurement of the experiment changes the result. Whatever can happen, does happen - the particle is in multiple places at the same time. Until you try to observe it. Before observation, particles have no defined properties. They are kind of "rendered" only when observed or measured. In other words, the reality is super-weird and super-crazy, until you try to observe what exactly is going on - then it immediately changes and behaves as our intuition would tell us.

There is really nothing all that mysterious about the double slit experiment.

According to the concept of wave–particle duality photons, electrons, protons and even atoms can behave in a way that we would describe as wave like and in ways that are more particle like. The heavier an entity is or the more energy it has, the more pronounced is the particle likeness and the less it behaves as a wave.

Therefor you can for example use electrons as a wave and can create electron microscopes.

You can also perform the double slit experiment with electrons or protons. It is a lot harder to do it with atoms, what is what the first of your videos talks about. The first time this succeeded was only in 1990. But in the end, it matters not, whether we use photons, electrons or atoms. The allegedly mysterious effect the video mentions turns up when performing so called "Which-way" experiments. If we modify the experiment in a way that we can tell, which of the slits a particle went through, the interference pattern vanishes (although it should be noted that there is still the interference pattern you get when a wave goes through a single slit, so the particles still show wave properties).

Now how can that be? The answer is really simple. In order to determine which slit a particle went through, you have to modify the experiment in a way that destroys the basis of the double slit experiment. In the experiment with the atoms in the video, using a detector to register all atoms that went through one slit, would consume the atoms and then the atoms (or part of the wave from one atom) going through the other slit have nothing to interfere with. The picture shown in the video where you can just detect an atom "flying by" without intefering with it is pure fantasy.

Most often, the "which way" experiment is probably conducted with photons. Then one possibility to find out through which slit a photon went is by polarizing them differently just before they enter the slits. Then the photons that go through one slit swing in a certain direction and the ones that went through the other swing in a 90 degree shifted direction. That way, you can tell, which photons went through which slit. However, the photons now swing in a 90 degree shitfted direction to each other and can no longer interfere with each other and the interference pattern vanished. Well, duh!

Quote from: LDV81 on June 02, 2023, 19:49

Some of the widely discussed implications of the double-slit experiment are the Multiverse Theory and Schrödinger's cat, which, theoretically, is both dead and alive at the same time.

Schrödinger's cat experiment is very often misunderstood. No physicist actually thinks that the cat in this thought experiment would be both dead and alive at any time. The cat experiment was a thought experiment proposed by Schrödinger in order to discredit the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics because he claimed that this interpretation would result in the cat being both dead and alive until the box with the cat is openend, which is obviously absurd. This is a misinterpretation of the Copenhagen interpretation, though. As soon as descision at the quantum level has macroscopic consequences, the wave function collapes and the cat is either dead or alive, but not both. Opening the box is just the equivalent to reading the result of an experiment from a display. It does not change the result of the experiment and the results are already determined.

LDV81 · « **Reply #117 on:** June 08, 2023, 16:31 »

Quote from: Big Toe on June 08, 2023, 15:49

There is really nothing all that mysterious about the double slit experiment.

[...]

You can also perform the double slit experiment with electrons or protons. It is a lot harder to do it with atoms, what is what the first of your videos talks about. The first time this succeeded was only in 1990. But in the end, it matters not, whether we use photons, electrons or atoms. The allegedly mysterious effect the video mentions turns up when performing so called "Which-way" experiments. If we modify the experiment in a way that we can tell, which of the slits a particle went through, the interference pattern vanishes (although it should be noted that there is still the interference pattern you get when a wave goes through a single slit, so the particles still show wave properties).

Now how can that be? The answer is really simple. In order to determine which slit a particle went through, you have to modify the experiment in a way that destroys the basis of the double slit experiment. In the experiment with the atoms in the video, using a detector to register all atoms that went through one slit, would consume the atoms and then the atoms (or part of the wave from one atom) going through the other slit have nothing to interfere with. The picture shown in the video where you can just detect an atom "flying by" without intefering with it is pure fantasy.

This is complete nonsense. The wave function collapses even when the detector is placed behind the slit, and which-way detection takes place after the particles have already passed through the slits. Also in complex setups, such as delayed-choice quantum eraser. There is nothing to "physically influence" the behavior of the particles before the slits. The which-way information can be obtained either by measurement (detection) after the fact or by logical deduction based on events which happen after the particle has gone through the slits. It just doesn't matter how you obtain the information about which way the particle went - if you have got that information - no matter how you got it, then the wave function already collapsed, in the past.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a22280/double-slit-experiment-even-weirder/

"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don’t understand quantum mechanics." — Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Prize in Physics

If you really explain what is going on in the double-slit experiment, there is a Nobel Prize waiting.

Big Toe · « **Reply #118 on:** June 08, 2023, 17:21 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 08, 2023, 16:31

This is complete nonsense. The wave function collapses even when the detector is placed behind the slit, and which-way detection takes place after the particles have already passed through the slits.

The which-way detection can take place immediatley after the slit, but before the waves had a chance to interfere. After that it is too late to get the which-way information.

Quote from: LDV81 on June 08, 2023, 16:31

Also in complex setups, such as delayed-choice quantum eraser. There is nothing to "physically influence" the behavior of the particles before the slits. The which-way information can be obtained either by measurement (detection) after the fact or by logical deduction based on events which happen after the particle has gone through the slits. It just doesn't matter how you obtain the information about which way the particle went - if you have got that information - no matter how you got it, then the wave function already collapsed, in the past.

In the delayed-choice quantum eraser the which way information is obtained immediatley after the particles went through the slit. It is just evaluated later.

See also the video "The Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser, Debunked" by physicist Sabine Hossenfelder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQv5CVELG3U

LDV81 · « **Reply #119 on:** June 08, 2023, 17:26 »

Quote from: Big Toe on June 08, 2023, 17:21

See also the video "The Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser, Debunked" by physicist Sabine Hossenfelder:

About Sabine Hossenfelder, and her "hidden variables" and "debunking":

https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelders-bluf-called.html

https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelder-digs-herself-into.html

https://www.essentiafoundation.org/the-fantasy-behind-sabine-hossenfelders-superdeterminism/reading/

LDV81 · « **Reply #120 on:** June 08, 2023, 17:45 »

Quote from: Big Toe on June 08, 2023, 17:21

The which-way detection can take place immediatley after the slit, but before the waves had a chance to interfere. After that it is too late to get the which-way information.

What you are suggesting is that generations of quantum physicists, including Nobel Prize winners, simply didn't set up their experiments properly and didn't have a clue what they were doing. Possible, but extremely unlikely.

Big Toe · « **Reply #121 on:** June 08, 2023, 18:11 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 08, 2023, 17:26

Quote from: Big Toe on June 08, 2023, 17:21

See also the video "The Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser, Debunked" by physicist Sabine Hossenfelder:

About Sabine Hossenfelder, and her "hidden variables" and "debunking":

https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelders-bluf-called.html

https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelder-digs-herself-into.html

https://www.essentiafoundation.org/the-fantasy-behind-sabine-hossenfelders-superdeterminism/reading/

Bernado Kastrup is a philosopher and not a physicist and therefor cannot to be expected to really understand quantum mechanics. In his rants about Sabine Hossenfelder he seems to concentrate on whether or not she falsely claimed to have defined some variables and not really on the physics behind it.

Big Toe · « **Reply #122 on:** June 08, 2023, 18:14 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 08, 2023, 17:45

Quote from: Big Toe on June 08, 2023, 17:21

The which-way detection can take place immediatley after the slit, but before the waves had a chance to interfere. After that it is too late to get the which-way information.

What you are suggesting is that generations of quantum physicists, including Nobel Prize winners, simply didn't set up their experiments properly and didn't have a clue what they were doing. Possible, but extremely unlikely.

This is not what I am suggesting. What I am saying is that some popular descriptions about what some of these experiments mean are very inaccurate and misleading.

LDV81 · « **Reply #123 on:** June 08, 2023, 18:53 »

Quote from: Big Toe on June 08, 2023, 18:11

Bernado Kastrup is a philosopher and not a physicist and therefor cannot to be expected to really understand quantum mechanics.

For what it's worth, Bernardo Kastrup worked at CERN. He literally helped to build technology for the Large Hadron Collider. That was his first job. He built technology for the world's top physicists when he was fresh out of university. I would assume he knows a thing or two about quantum physics. At least, much more than a "regular" philosopher. He only turned to philosophy later in life.

LDV81 · « **Reply #124 on:** June 08, 2023, 19:30 »

Quote from: Big Toe on June 08, 2023, 18:11

he seems to concentrate on whether or not she falsely claimed to have defined some variables and not really on the physics behind it.

"Hidden variables" are a materialist attempt to explain quantum phenomena by, basically, an appeal to magic. There is no proof for those hidden variables, nobody really knows what they are exactly supposed to be. If she had really defined them and had some evidence that would have been meaningful.

From Wikipedia:

"In physics, hidden-variable theories are proposals to provide explanations of quantum mechanical phenomena through the introduction of (possibly unobservable) hypothetical entities." - in other words: very close to an appeal to magic.

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