Author Topic: UFOs now called UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) Crowd Stories and photos. (Read 50658 times)

Big Toe · « **Reply #300 on:** July 23, 2023, 16:14 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 23, 2023, 15:37

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 23, 2023, 11:32
FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.

If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.

Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"

Probably all a misunderstanding. For example, if Grush asks anybody whether they think there is evidence for non-human intelligence on earth, any sensible person would answer: "Yes, of course!", probably not realizing that Grush for some reason seems to think that dolphins and chimpanzees are human.

Big Toe · « **Reply #301 on:** July 23, 2023, 16:15 »

Double post

LDV81 · « **Reply #302 on:** July 23, 2023, 17:18 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 23, 2023, 16:14

Probably all a misunderstanding. For example, if Grush asks anybody whether they think there is evidence for non-human intelligence on earth, any sensible person would answer: "Yes, of course!", probably not realizing that Grush for some reason seems to think that dolphins and chimpanzees are human.

You have posted that gag of yours for the umpteenth time, but it doesn't add anything constructive or interesting to the discussion. Like a broken vinyl record, stuck in a groove.

Lowls · « **Reply #303 on:** July 23, 2023, 18:06 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 23, 2023, 15:37

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 23, 2023, 11:32
FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.

If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.

Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"

Wasting your breath. He can't help himself. It's tragic. He doesn't believe or care or matter or contribute ... seriously just look at what he writes compared to what's going on in the real world. It's literally tragic at this point.

Lowls · « **Reply #304 on:** July 23, 2023, 18:08 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 23, 2023, 16:14

Quote from: LDV81 on July 23, 2023, 15:37
Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 23, 2023, 11:32
FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.

If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.

Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"

Probably all a misunderstanding. For example, if Grush asks anybody whether they think there is evidence for non-human intelligence on earth, any sensible person would answer: "Yes, of course!", probably not realizing that Grush for some reason seems to think that dolphins and chimpanzees are human.

Jesus ... bring out ya dead ... ding ... bring out ya dead

Big Toe · « **Reply #305 on:** July 24, 2023, 05:28 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 23, 2023, 17:18

Quote from: Big Toe on July 23, 2023, 16:14
Probably all a misunderstanding. For example, if Grush asks anybody whether they think there is evidence for non-human intelligence on earth, any sensible person would answer: "Yes, of course!", probably not realizing that Grush for some reason seems to think that dolphins and chimpanzees are human.

You have posted that gag of yours for the umpteenth time, but it doesn't add anything constructive or interesting to the discussion. Like a broken vinyl record, stuck in a groove.

It's not a gag, even if I sometimes try to bring a little humour to the discussion and it is only the third time i'm bringing it up.

And I will continue to do so, as long as they use this absurdly stupid name. How can they expect to be taken seriously, when they are so dismissive of animal intelligence?

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #306 on:** July 24, 2023, 12:05 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 23, 2023, 15:37

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 23, 2023, 11:32
FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.

If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.

Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"

Since we don't know who and what they said, we can only guess about the credibility and motivations, but good points.

As I have tried to get specifics, I get answers like, "use your fingers and search" or slam dunk replies, that some others have posted that just ignore the questions and flip into attacking me personally, (and anyone else who doesn't just roll over and say, yes, yes, yes...) rather than the questions and information and the subject. I appreciate that you are asking logical, why not, kinds of things.

Speaking of clearance, this can be over rated. Just about everyone who is in the military is cleared for SECRET. I don't know the standards, but those who can't pass that, probably aren't allowed to serve. I was cleared for TOP SECRET not because of anything interesting, but because I worked in a Headquarters Battery and handled messages and codes. It's all standard, fairly ordinary kinds of things, but I had to be investigated by the FBI and who knows who else.

So as an example if Grusch interviewed people with high clearances, would TOP SECRET be high enough? Could I be a source based on my personal opinion and experiences? Just an example of how a claim can be propped up with appearances.

Just to be clear on my personal position. I'll wait and see how this plays out, before I start to believe or deny what he's claiming. That's a reasonable position, to see how the facts, evidence, and claims match up, before going into how this is a stunning new development. We've been reading bait for years, most of it is just wishing and hypothetical. Being that I'm older, I've been reading the SOS claims and promises and secret developments and discoveries, for many more years.

Twisted truth and ignoring the dissent or brushing it off as some kind of negative skeptic position, is odd. People who want to know the truth, should be skeptical, and should ask difficult questions, before they are convinced and believe something that's highly unusual and extraordinary. Not the other way around.

Lowls · « **Reply #307 on:** July 24, 2023, 12:41 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 24, 2023, 12:05

Quote from: LDV81 on July 23, 2023, 15:37
Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 23, 2023, 11:32
FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.

If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.

Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"
Just to be clear on my personal position. I'll wait and see how this plays out, before I start to believe or deny what he's claiming. That's a reasonable position, to see how the facts, evidence, and claims match up, before going into how this is a stunning new development. We've been reading bait for years, most of it is just wishing and hypothetical. Being that I'm older, I've been reading the SOS claims and promises and secret developments and discoveries, for many more years.

.... People who want to know the truth, should be skeptical, and should ask difficult questions, before they are convinced and believe something that's highly unusual and extraordinary. Not the other way around.

Finally a mature well thought out response. Mostly. You won't get away without being pulled up for the previous know it all dismissive claptrap of your previous posts but at least here ... we've found a middle ground. Thank you Peter.

Roscoe · « **Reply #308 on:** July 24, 2023, 13:26 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 23, 2023, 15:37

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 23, 2023, 11:32
FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.

If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.

Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"

These are the right questions imho. Why would people who seemingly only have to lose lie about it? And if they're not lying, w t actual f is going on.

There are many reasons to think of why anyone would lie about it. Diversion and smoke-screening is one of them. They might try to draw attention to something else, preventing a more meaningful thing to be investigated or revealed. Destabilization, smear campaigning or political motifs are also a possibility.

Admittedly, it's weird.

But the other option, Grusch is right, is even more weird. I just can't imagine that we would live in a world we're living in right now with all of that being true. Makes no sense at all. Space exploration would be way higher up any political agenda for instance, and our armies and defense systems would look completely different from what we see now.

The vast majority of past UFO reports and sightings are perfectly refutable and have scientific or other explanations. Scientists and high ranked military personnel also admit that a small minority of the reports are impossible to explain, and remain a mystery. Yet, that doesn't mean that those sightings or events involve alien lifeforms and technology.

Anyhow, we all want to believe, right? And that makes it a very engaging topic to follow and discuss.
And while we're doing that, we're not talking about other things that probably matter more. :-)

LDV81 · « **Reply #309 on:** July 24, 2023, 13:53 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 24, 2023, 12:05

People who want to know the truth, should be skeptical, and should ask difficult questions, before they are convinced and believe something that's highly unusual and extraordinary. Not the other way around.

1. Open-minded skepticism is great. Denialism is stupid.

2. Proposing a hypothesis is fine. You don't need evidence to propose a hypothesis. A hypothesis is different from a theory.

There are reports of unexplained anomalous phenomena. And there are the "extraterrestrial" / "extratemporal" / "interdimensional" etc. hypotheses trying to come up with an explanation. It is all fine. Most great discoveries were once just a "hypothesis" (unless it was a serendipity). A hypothesis may be refuted or not.

3. The question is what is more unusual and extraordinary?

I would say that the assumption that humans are the pinnacle of intelligence and technical development in the universe / multiverse / the wider reality is just preposterous. I would even say that it is the pinnacle of arrogance. Humans only invented bicycles a few generations ago, and most humans have big problems imagining a "simple" tesseract.

Also, if you watch the videos with Professor Donald Hoffman that I linked above, you will realize that we can only perceive a tiny little bit of reality, and even that little bit is completely distorted. Hoffman showed evidence that evolution hides the reality from us.

If humans were the most advanced beings and there were no other beings capable of visiting the Earth across the whole wider reality, I would say that it is pretty "extraordinary".

Big Toe · « **Reply #310 on:** July 24, 2023, 16:30 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 13:53

3. The question is what is more unusual and extraordinary?

I would say that the assumption that humans are the pinnacle of intelligence and technical development in the universe / multiverse / the wider reality is just preposterous. I would even say that it is the pinnacle of arrogance. Humans only invented bicycles a few generations ago, and most humans have big problems imagining a "simple" tesseract.

Also, if you watch the videos with Professor Donald Hoffman that I linked above, you will realize that we can only perceive a tiny little bit of reality, and even that little bit is completely distorted. Hoffman showed evidence that evolution hides the reality from us.

If humans were the most advanced beings and there were no other beings capable of visiting the Earth across the whole wider reality, I would say that it is pretty "extraordinary".

You are mixing up two different things here. I think that practically nobody claims that we are the most advanced species in the universe, except perhaps some people who do not believe that intelligent life exists on other planets for religious reasons.

Given the number of stars in the universe and that we have discovered a number of solar systems with planets among the limited number of stars close enough for us to detect this, it is very likely that there is large number of planets in the universe where life developed and also very likely that some of them are more advanced than we are.

However, whether any of these planets are near enough for the inhabitants to reach Earth is a totally different question. Not nearly every solar system with planets is suitable for life. There needs to be a planet large enough to hold an atmosphere at the right distance to the sun. There probably also needs to be water on the planet. And it needs to have a magnetic field in order to protect it against solar winds.

With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.

But lets say that by an astonishing conicidence one of the adavanced species live on one of planets in the solar systems near to us, say 10-20 lightyears away and they somehow managed to travel to Earth. I guess it is theoretically possible.

But then, according to the non-denialists, they just hang around here for decades (or some people believe even for centuries or millenia) without making formal contact and sometimes get seen by some people and sometimes they lose an aircraft for whatever reason and don't seem to be able to retrieve it before the US government seizes it, inspite of their advanced technology.

Sorry, but I am not convinced.

LDV81 · « **Reply #311 on:** July 24, 2023, 17:23 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 24, 2023, 16:30

With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.

1. "The current technology" is the key word here. And that "current technology" is only a few generations ahead of the bicycle... In the grand scheme of things, it is probably incredibly primitive.

2. Einstein's physics superseded Newtonian physics. It is conceivable that for sufficiently advanced beings, Einsteinian physics is below kindergarten level, metaphorically speaking.

3. Even within Einsteinian physics, due to time dilation, time flows much more slowly for beings inside a fast-moving craft. Even if they can "only approach" the speed of light, not much time would pass inside the craft even if it has travelled for thousands of light years. From the perspective of a photon travelling at the speed of light, no time has elapsed even after the photon has travelled for billions of light years. For the photon, it happens instantly.

Also, we don't know anything about their lifespans. Maybe they just send drones, von Neumann's probes or whatever.

Maybe they have working Alcubierre drives. And Alcubierre drive is just one proposed loophole allowing to effectively reach the destination faster than light. Maybe there are other loopholes.

4. If they can operate in at least one more dimension than us (string theory proposes 11 dimensions), then they could instantly reach any point in our 4D spacetime. Our 4D spacetime would be like Flatland to them.

5. Watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman to understand why spacetime is not fundamental. It is conceivable that super highly-developed entities do not even travel THROUGH spacetime. This could potentially explain some of the "woo" things about the phenomenon.

The perception of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension is what evolution gave us. It is not absolute and it is not fundamental. It was the minimum required for our survival as a species. Hoffman has showed evidence that evolution hid the rest of reality from our perception.

LDV81 · « **Reply #312 on:** July 24, 2023, 18:05 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 24, 2023, 16:30

But then, according to the non-denialists, they just hang around here for decades (or some people believe even for centuries or millenia) without making formal contact and sometimes get seen by some people and sometimes they lose an aircraft for whatever reason and don't seem to be able to retrieve it before the US government seizes it, inspite of their advanced technology.

1. The "losses" may very well be intentional. For example, an intelligence test for "wild primates" on this planet. Humans conduct similar tests with mirrors placed in jungles and forests. Or to cause certain developments on Earth, kind of like the monolith in Space Odyssey 2001.

2. The craft may be some cheap drones that they don't care about.

Lowls · « **Reply #313 on:** July 25, 2023, 00:56 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 18:05

Quote from: Big Toe on July 24, 2023, 16:30
But then, according to the non-denialists, they just hang around here for decades (or some people believe even for centuries or millenia) without making formal contact and sometimes get seen by some people and sometimes they lose an aircraft for whatever reason and don't seem to be able to retrieve it before the US government seizes it, inspite of their advanced technology.

1. The "losses" may very well be intentional. For example, an intelligence test for "wild primates" on this planet. Humans conduct similar tests with mirrors placed in jungles and forests. Or to cause certain developments on Earth, kind of like the monolith in Space Odyssey 2001.

2. The craft may be some cheap drones that they don't care about.

I think you're straying there. If abductions are to be believed no such tests would be required.

Roswell - big electric storm reported that night as well as visual sighting of a craft. Plus ... if you're old enough to remember it, they were testing some sort of powerful radar around that time.

"Crashing all the time" is a childish cliché trotted out by people who lack any form of big picture ability. How many are here or come here denotes a value for "all the time".

If several thousand a year visit ... 1 per 10 years is irrelevant given how much of our crap breaks due to mechanical failure. Weather. Poor skill due to illness or lack of ability.
If 10 per year visit, 1 per decade isn't "all the time" either. People keep saying it though. Stupid people.

Lowls · « **Reply #314 on:** July 25, 2023, 03:43 »

Commander Chad Underwood was stationed on the Nimitz and worked for David Fravor. After David Fravor engaged the UFO which came to be known as the Tic Tac returned to the Nimitz Chad Underwood was prepping for his flight. Favid Fravor said to him ... there's something wierd going on out there. If you can gets some film of it. He did. This is the Tic Tac film that was leaked and then confirmed by the USAF.

Here he explains his experience https://youtu.be/4opsdH4hY3s

It's worth watching Mick Wests take on this which appears credible and is full of very convincing analysis and is a point of hilarity to those involved who actually use and know and are qualified to operate that equipment unlike Mick West who's only experience begins and ends with Google.

Diana Herrmann · « **Reply #315 on:** July 25, 2023, 08:41 »

Quote from: Year of the Dog on July 18, 2023, 06:29

Quote from: LDV81 on July 07, 2023, 14:35
Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 07, 2023, 13:33
What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?

What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?

There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.

After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.

For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.

Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valleé. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...

There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.

Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.

This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.

Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.

Lowls · « **Reply #316 on:** July 25, 2023, 10:12 »

Quote from: Diana Herrmann on July 25, 2023, 08:41

Quote from: Year of the Dog on July 18, 2023, 06:29
Quote from: LDV81 on July 07, 2023, 14:35
Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 07, 2023, 13:33
What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?

What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?

There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.

After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.

For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.

Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valleé. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...

There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.

Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.

This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.

Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.

Who does?

cascoly · « **Reply #317 on:** July 25, 2023, 13:02 »

Lowls · « **Reply #318 on:** July 26, 2023, 03:27 »

To watch the UAP hearings live follow this link to the live stream. It is designated to begin at 10am Eastern Standard Time. However EST isn't a straight conversion to your local time. Google changes it to Eastern Time which is a catch all for EDT or EST because of daylight saving. For instance 10am ET translates to Greenwhich Mean Time (GMT) 2pm. But the Utube link says its live at 3pm GMT 🤦

Here is the link. Set notifications and hope for the best.

LIVE CONGRESSIONAL UAP HEARINGS LINK
https://www.youtube.com/live/KQ7Dw-739VY?feature=share

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #319 on:** July 26, 2023, 11:22 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 17:23

Quote from: Big Toe on July 24, 2023, 16:30
With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.

1. "The current technology" is the key word here. And that "current technology" is only a few generations ahead of the bicycle... In the grand scheme of things, it is probably incredibly primitive.

2. Einstein's physics superseded Newtonian physics. It is conceivable that for sufficiently advanced beings, Einsteinian physics is below kindergarten level, metaphorically speaking.

3. Even within Einsteinian physics, due to time dilation, time flows much more slowly for beings inside a fast-moving craft. Even if they can "only approach" the speed of light, not much time would pass inside the craft even if it has travelled for thousands of light years. From the perspective of a photon travelling at the speed of light, no time has elapsed even after the photon has travelled for billions of light years. For the photon, it happens instantly.

Also, we don't know anything about their lifespans. Maybe they just send drones, von Neumann's probes or whatever.

Maybe they have working Alcubierre drives. And Alcubierre drive is just one proposed loophole allowing to effectively reach the destination faster than light. Maybe there are other loopholes.

4. If they can operate in at least one more dimension than us (string theory proposes 11 dimensions), then they could instantly reach any point in our 4D spacetime. Our 4D spacetime would be like Flatland to them.

5. Watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman to understand why spacetime is not fundamental. It is conceivable that super highly-developed entities do not even travel THROUGH spacetime. This could potentially explain some of the "woo" things about the phenomenon.

The perception of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension is what evolution gave us. It is not absolute and it is not fundamental. It was the minimum required for our survival as a species. Hoffman has showed evidence that evolution hid the rest of reality from our perception.

They? What they? There's nothing to prove or show that anyone or anything is actually visiting. That's a leap of faith, based on a hypothesis, which has no supporting factual evidence. Sure anyone can form a hypothesis, then move on to prove it? In the case of alien visitors, we have people who jump to a conclusion and then believe it's truth, without scientific evidence.

You can't make something true by just saying it is, or personally accepting some creative hypothesis as a fact. You need to have evidence, that can be confirmed, peer review, repeatable events, data collection, and some serious skepticism from even the people who want these things to be true, to prove they are true. Not just a wish and a dream.

We have no evidence that UAP or UFOs are alien visitors.

LDV81 · « **Reply #320 on:** July 26, 2023, 11:39 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 26, 2023, 11:22

You need to have evidence, that can be confirmed, peer review, repeatable events, data collection, and some serious skepticism from even the people who want these things to be true, to prove they are true. Not just a wish and a dream.

We have no evidence that UAP or UFOs are alien visitors.

1. You don't need evidence to formulate a hypothesis. A hypothesis is just an educated guess. You start with a hypothesis and then try to either refute it or confirm it. Otherwise, we would still be dwelling in caves.

2. Also, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact that the general public hasn't seen compelling evidence yet doesn't have to mean that such evidence doesn't exist. As long as it is classified, you probably won't see it.

3. There may very well be plenty of evidence if what Grusch says is true. He just told the Congress about "non-human biologics".

4. You are free to formulate your own hypotheses explaining reports of craft that apparently defy the current mainstream understanding of physics.

"Alien visitors" (in the sense: "extraterrestrials") are just one hypothesis; there are others, too. I am open to them, unless they have been refuted or don't make sense. It doesn't mean that I accept them as gospel. If they are proven wrong, it's fine with me. I just don't think all the reports about the phenomenon are hoaxes or hallucinations. Some of them: yes, but quite a few seem credible.

Lowls · « **Reply #321 on:** July 26, 2023, 12:36 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 26, 2023, 11:22

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 17:23
Quote from: Big Toe on July 24, 2023, 16:30
With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.

1. "The current technology" is the key word here. And that "current technology" is only a few generations ahead of the bicycle... In the grand scheme of things, it is probably incredibly primitive.

2. Einstein's physics superseded Newtonian physics. It is conceivable that for sufficiently advanced beings, Einsteinian physics is below kindergarten level, metaphorically speaking.

3. Even within Einsteinian physics, due to time dilation, time flows much more slowly for beings inside a fast-moving craft. Even if they can "only approach" the speed of light, not much time would pass inside the craft even if it has travelled for thousands of light years. From the perspective of a photon travelling at the speed of light, no time has elapsed even after the photon has travelled for billions of light years. For the photon, it happens instantly.

Also, we don't know anything about their lifespans. Maybe they just send drones, von Neumann's probes or whatever.

Maybe they have working Alcubierre drives. And Alcubierre drive is just one proposed loophole allowing to effectively reach the destination faster than light. Maybe there are other loopholes.

4. If they can operate in at least one more dimension than us (string theory proposes 11 dimensions), then they could instantly reach any point in our 4D spacetime. Our 4D spacetime would be like Flatland to them.

5. Watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman to understand why spacetime is not fundamental. It is conceivable that super highly-developed entities do not even travel THROUGH spacetime. This could potentially explain some of the "woo" things about the phenomenon.

The perception of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension is what evolution gave us. It is not absolute and it is not fundamental. It was the minimum required for our survival as a species. Hoffman has showed evidence that evolution hid the rest of reality from our perception.

They? What they? There's nothing to prove or show that anyone or anything is actually visiting. That's a leap of faith, based on a hypothesis, which has no supporting factual evidence. Sure anyone can form a hypothesis, then move on to prove it? In the case of alien visitors, we have people who jump to a conclusion and then believe it's truth, without scientific evidence.

You can't make something true by just saying it is, or personally accepting some creative hypothesis as a fact. You need to have evidence, that can be confirmed, peer review, repeatable events, data collection, and some serious skepticism from even the people who want these things to be true, to prove they are true. Not just a wish and a dream.

We have no evidence that UAP or UFOs are alien visitors.

This statement died on its arse. Should of held off after the hearing Peter.

Senator Garcia: Do you believe that UFOs put our pilots at risk and are a risk to national security
Commander Fravor - Yes
Grave - Yes
Grusch - Yes

Garvia - do you believe that the US governmnent are in possession of UAPs
Grusch - Yes
Garcia - Where are they and who has them.
Grusch- I know the exact locations and I have provided the locations to the Inspector General of Inteligance.

Get somw clearances Pete or give up at this point you look rediculous.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #322 on:** July 26, 2023, 12:42 »

Quote from: Lowls on July 26, 2023, 12:36

Garvia - do you believe that the US governmnent are in possession of UAPs
Grusch - Yes
Garcia - Where are they and who has them.
Grusch- I know the exact locations and I have provided he locations the Inspector General of Inteligance.

There has been talk for decades about these UAPs in the US, but no one has ever seen one.

Lowls · « **Reply #323 on:** July 26, 2023, 13:17 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on July 26, 2023, 12:42

Quote from: Lowls on July 26, 2023, 12:36
Garvia - do you believe that the US governmnent are in possession of UAPs
Grusch - Yes
Garcia - Where are they and who has them.
Grusch- I know the exact locations and I have provided he locations the Inspector General of Inteligance.
There has been talk for decades about these UAPs in the US, but no one has ever seen one.

Incorrect. No member of the public has seen one in US possession. tens of millions have seen them. Prosaic or otherwise.

LDV81 · « **Reply #324 on:** July 26, 2023, 16:16 »

So, the current situation is:

On one side, we have a guy with an impeccable reputation who under oath tells the Congress about a UAP retrieval program. He provides names and addresses to the Inspector General. He is supposed to share classified details behind closed doors with those who have sufficient clearance. This guy is not another Bob Lazar. He is playing by the book and was apparently deemed credible in the Congress.

On the other side, we have denialists who say more or less this: "UAPs are not real, because we are too far away... with our current technology it is not possible to go anywhere except the Moon and Mars, so they can't come here, either. It wouldn't be fair... And anyway, they don't exist, because I have not seen them."

I am still not 100% sure if what Grusch says is true. For all I know, they could all be nuts or this could be some psyops. But what is the likelihood of that?

I will give Grusch the benefit of the doubt, for now.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15aaabl/key_takeaways_from_july_26_hearings/

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