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Author Topic: UFOs now called UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) Crowd Stories and photos.  (Read 44599 times)

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Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2023, 12:13 »
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People shouldn't watch too much Ancient Aliens, which is meant for entertainment purposes only.  ;)

Yeah, ancient astronauts, unsolved mysteries, aliens built the pyramids (Africa and South America) known ancient sites that are twisted into something else, Stonehenge, Easter Island, Nazca and of course the undiscovered Atlantis. It is entertaining and I confess I spent way too much time for many years, reading all of that. I had to dig a bit to finally find a copy of Stonehenge Decided and false math theory that was very popular at one time, but when others when back to fact check, it was manipulated data. Too bad, that was a good one.

"As soon as Marcel brought the material to General Ramey's office, both Ramey and his chief of staff Colonel Thomas Dubose identified the material as pieces of a weather balloon kite. The FWAAF weather officer on duty explained to reporters that such rawin (misreported as 'ray wind') radar targets that were used at about 80 weather stations across the country. The balloons were attached to a six-pointed reflective device that looked like a silver star. After launch, the balloon expanded with increasing altitude before bursting around 60,000 feet with pieces then dispersing in their fall to the ground."

That's what really happened. These balloons were not made of polyethylene that had been coated with aluminum. Mylar, BoPET (biaxially oriented polyethylene terephthalate) as it hadn't been invented yet. But aluminum foil had been and poly plastics were fairly common. Polyethylene was invented in the 1800s.

So just to be clear, the aluminum and reflective material wasn't the balloon, but the kite radar targets. The balloon was the rubber debris part. Very ordinary balloon materials.

Nothing mysterious or other world about these.




Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2023, 12:21 »
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I can answer your most recent question and the first one here. The Bermuda Triangle is a fact because it has been defined as a fact in its naming. In the same way as its a fact that your username is Uncle Peter.  In the same way I don't know if you are actually an uncle and nor do I know if your real name is Peter. But factually you are known as that here. And the Bermuda triangle also exists in the same way. The answer to the second part of that is .... I have no idea. Its not my hobby horse and I don't believe I mentioned it in my OP. I do know a lot of tonnage of ships have been lost in that general area and as I stated I subscribe to aerated water as a contributing factor. That's scientific fact Peter. I cannot claim to know that its the cause in that general area. But that is a known cause of ships sinking around the world. Cool video of someone doing it on utibe too but that isn't the source of my knowledge on the subject. I won't bore you.
Atlantis - again not my hobby horse and I barely have any inclination towards it. It may as well be carpet underlay. In fact I'd probably lean towards the underlay. Philidelphia experiment. That I do know about but if its true I suspect that it was some experimental pet project that came out of Hitlers stable and is probably linked to De Gloke or however its spelled. The bell that was part of one of Hitlers projects. But again I find it fascinating but not enough to devote time to.
Noahs Ark. God doesn't exist Peter. Other than in people's minds and a book written and rewritten by men.

I could point out that the first few paragraphs of your response directly contradict you but ... meh. I've always known you're a pedant and if you do not agree with something you do not stop ranting about it. You are bombastic. It's not a problem for me but I do worry about you personally.

If you do have any UFO experiences please do post them I do find those fascinating.

So you can't say where the Bermuda Triangle is or can be the "Devils Triangle"? Or what happened to Flight 19 (the foundation of the myth), or the Mary Celeste, or many of the mysterious disappearances of ships and airplanes. Surely you aren't saying a training flight, was consumed by gas bubbles from an ocean trench?

I am in fact an Uncle, ask my Niece?  ;D You didn't manage to admit your ranting and spewing of a string of personal attacks? That's convenient.

Someone please tell me where the Bermuda Triangle is Located. Location, area, general boundaries. Is that a question enough phrase even without a question mark?

ps I am not a definition I am a person, the Bermuda Triangle is a concept not a reality. Unless someone can show me where it is as a physical place?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2023, 12:41 by Uncle Pete »

« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2023, 12:57 »
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« Last Edit: May 18, 2023, 13:55 by cascoly »

« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2023, 13:52 »
+2
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... which brings us to the ignorance of the skeptics self proclaimed or otherwise. I did state at the beginning of the thread ... don't bother. Your ridiculous cliche of "the burden of proof falls to the ones making claims" is the usual trollop trotted out by lazy and idle people. .... skeptics can never provide any meat to their bone. Its all "nonsense" they cry without any research or any proof what so ever. Lazy. And they never attempt to investigate themselves. They barely bother to research what's out there. One thing is a fact. No one employs skeptics when embarking on a venture do they. ...
   
leaving aside your continuing ad hominems.. (i tried to warn you privately in a PM but you blocked me)

your posts is wrong on so many levels - if you claim there's a tooth  fairy, I'm supposed to prove there isn't? Carl Sagan's rule still applies: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ( ECREE).

then your claim that skeptics NEVER investigate or do research - did you check the links i sent earlier that refute that statement?  I've been reading Skeptical Inquirer for 40 years and their primary purpose is investigation and exposing hoaxes, conspiracy theories and urban legends. 

and how do you support a claim that  'no one employs skeptics'? as a self proclaimed English speaker, you should know that claims with 'never' or 'no one' are seldom true
« Last Edit: May 18, 2023, 14:10 by cascoly »

« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2023, 14:08 »
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Now what about, the Bermuda Triangle Myth? Atlantis? The Philadelphia Experiment? And finding Noah's Ark? Honestly we're more likely to find Noah's Ark. Which if you want to consider how unlikely that story may be? The capacity of the ship/ark would be roughly 1.5 million cubic feet. But you know what, no one can prove it isn't a true story? And there are new claims over and over, that someone found Noah's Ark on some mountain top.......

on a long ago forum i was involved in discussions about bible literalism & creationism - one of the most ridiculous parts of the Noah  myth is the water needed:

rather than the entire earth, just consider the area of the middle east - 3 million ft^2

height of ararat   16,800'

on our recent trip to eastern Turkey we drove over passes 7-9K' with mtns 1-2 K' higher, but most of the trip was at sea level, rising to 3,000' in Cappadocia. so consider a crude under-estimate of average height of the region of about 3,000'  which would require about 14,000' of water everywhere-- (leaving an archipelago of mtn tops)

14,000 x 3 million = 42 billion cubic feet of water needed to cover most of the area


for 40 days that means about 1 billion cubic feet / day

1 billion ft^3/day  /  3 million ft^2 = 333 ft /day

Even if this estimate is TWO orders of magnitude off, that still requires an unbelievable amount of water (not to mention where it could quickly drain to afterwards)

--------------
Iran lies at an average elevation of 1305 m above sea level and is therefore one of the highest countries in the world. Turkey averages 1132 m;  average elevation of Saudi Arabia is 600 m

farbled

« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2023, 14:15 »
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« Last Edit: May 18, 2023, 17:19 by farbled »

Annie2022

« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2023, 14:40 »
+2


In the same way I don't know if you are actually an uncle and nor do I know if your real name is Peter.

Just a side note, FYI. I know Pete. I've known him for about 10 years. I know his wife. My husband has participated in his NFL tipping competitions. Pete's a genuine guy. Yes, we've had a few differences over the years, but Pete's a fact checker. ("Just the Facts, Mam" - sorry I watched part of that old Dragnet spoof movie on the weekend  ;D)  However, he's willing to change his mind if you can convince him with evidence.

But personal attacks just won't cut it.

And on another note, Ancient Aliens (as you wrote above) is NOT A DOCUMENTARY! lol. (documental [dok-yuh-men-tl] /ˌdɒk yəˈmɛn tl/. pertaining to, consisting of, or derived from documents. Movies, Television. based on or re-creating an actual event, era, life story, etc., that purports to be factually accurate and contains no fictional elements.)

Yes, I've watched the show and most of the episodes, and yes, its very entertaining, although I've gotten bored with it lately because its just the same-old, same-old. It draws on references from archeology, mythology, religious text, etc - but they always come to the same conclusion - it was aliens! I guess the show would be called something else, if it didn't. lol

But I subscribe to Neil deGrasse Tyson's comments: "Just because you can't figure out how ancient civilizations built stuff, doesn't mean it was built by aliens"
« Last Edit: May 18, 2023, 14:48 by Annie »

« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2023, 15:22 »
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"So you can't say where the Bermuda Triangle is or can be the "Devils Triangle"? Or what happened to Flight 19 (the foundation of the myth), or the Mary Celeste, or many of the mysterious disappearances of ships and airplanes. Surely you aren't saying a training flight, was consumed by gas bubbles from an ocean trench?"

No Peter and nor did I claim to. I didn't even bring it up. I responded with a rather mundane science based theory that some subscribe to because it can be repeated. A cornerstone of science. And I stated it wouldn't explain lost flights but a poorly functioning compass certainly wouldn't help them locate themselves and I believe crashing into the ocean after losing all their fuel due to mistakenly assuming they were somewhere they weren't was the most accepted theory and has been for decades. But as I stated its not my hobby horse despite you apparently wanting to shove me on it for a ride.

No regarding insults to you because it was trying to make light of a rather hefty and authoritarian rant by you. I have engaged you on numerous ocassions and in the past you have always been courteous and obliging even in your secret club forum. But here you are indeed bombastic.

Well you claim to have thoroughly debunked Roswell and claim to have supplied the full facts of what occurred in Rameys office that day as if you were there that very day. Solved. Case closed. I dont believe I brought that up either but i do like a good roswell discussion. Thank you. You may have to ocassionally permit other perspectives in life with good grace. Or not.

Quite hard to find these days but I always like to hear things from the horses mouths. Dubose stating briefly his ... I guess we must call it nonsense at this point eh recorded before his death. Oh and yes I know he doesn't state what it was, but he does explain what it wasn't.

Enjoy - https://youtu.be/5msCAVORZJ0

farbled

« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2023, 17:38 »
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on a long ago forum i was involved in discussions about bible literalism & creationism - one of the most ridiculous parts of the Noah  myth is the water needed:

rather than the entire earth, just consider the area of the middle east - 3 million ft^2

height of ararat   16,800'

on our recent trip to eastern Turkey we drove over passes 7-9K' with mtns 1-2 K' higher, but most of the trip was at sea level, rising to 3,000' in Cappadocia. so consider a crude under-estimate of average height of the region of about 3,000'  which would require about 14,000' of water everywhere-- (leaving an archipelago of mtn tops)

14,000 x 3 million = 42 billion cubic feet of water needed to cover most of the area


for 40 days that means about 1 billion cubic feet / day

1 billion ft^3/day  /  3 million ft^2 = 333 ft /day

Even if this estimate is TWO orders of magnitude off, that still requires an unbelievable amount of water (not to mention where it could quickly drain to afterwards)

--------------
Iran lies at an average elevation of 1305 m above sea level and is therefore one of the highest countries in the world. Turkey averages 1132 m;  average elevation of Saudi Arabia is 600 m

Lol, I came up with a reasonable and scientifically plausible theory for the christian flood myth along with the corresponding flood myths in many cultures around the world. You can read it all in my latest book, Payback. ;)

« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2023, 02:21 »
+1
As an aside, UAP has itself been renamed.

It now stands for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. I'm not sure why. I liked 'aerial' better (but they didn't ask me  ;)).

Because there have been many reports of the objects submerging in oceans - they were transmedium craft.

« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2023, 06:29 »
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon


1951 man-made. Looks like parts could have been of the same 'tin foil' material.




The "believers" will never listen to reason and come up with the same stale "prove it's not real" which is a contradiction in logic. Prove I don't own a giant invisible frog, that lives in my yard. Impossible.

Believers don't want answers, they want the mystery and intrigue.  http://www.roswellproof.com/rawin_construction.html

RAWINs are basically a balsa-wood kite stick framework forming corners covered with a radar reflecting substance like aluminum foil.

The Mogul Project occasionally used the ML-307 radar target for tracking of their balloon trains.  This is also the model of RAWIN displayed in Gen. Ramey's office on July 8, 1947.




But you'll see that anything that disagrees with the conspiracy, crash, aliens, Etc. will be a planned cover-up and discounted. While any wisp of a blurry note, will become proof, without a doubt. If the only evidence that is acceptable, is that which supports a theory, and all the other evidence is eliminated and discounted, of course, it's going to make a convincing story.

Roswell wasn't even an event or interesting, to anyone, not even UFO people, until someone brought it back to life years later.

In 1978, nuclear physicist, author and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman interviewed Marcel, who said that the discovery made 31 years earlier was not from this world, and that the government had ordered him to keep quiet. Friedman revisited the incident and sought other witnesses, and his work inspired Charles Berlitz and William Moore to write "The Roswell Incident" published in 1980. Their conclusion was simple: There had been a huge cover-up.

1980! Because the original incident was an error and it was resolved and the truth was known. But lets look at Friedman, Berlitz and Moore for a bit.

From Random House: Charles Berlitz, the author of The Bermuda Triangle, was a renowned linguist, lecturer, and underwater explorer. In addition to The Bermuda Triangle, which has sold over 10 million copies in twenty-three languages, Berlitz wrote other best sellers on archaeology, languages, Atlantis, and underwater exploration. Wow, there's some background, the fake Bermuda Triangle mystery that's clearly solved (The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved by Larry Kusche, which people who deny the truth won't pick up and read, because it goes against the mythology) Atlantis? Wait, let me point out, the author of the Roswell Incident and his writings?

    The Mystery of Atlantis, 1969
    Mysteries from Forgotten Worlds, 1972
    The Bermuda Triangle, 1974, ISBN 0-285-63326-0
    Without a Trace, 1977
    The Philadelphia Experiment Project Invisibility, 1979
    The Roswell Incident, 1980
    Doomsday 1999 A.D., 1981, ISBN 0-586-05543-6
    Atlantis The Eighth Continent: G. P. Putnams Sons, New York, 1984
    Atlantis: The Lost Continent Revealed, Macmillan, London, 1984
    The Lost Ship of Noah: In Search of the Ark at Ararat, 1987
    The Dragon's Triangle, 1989
    World of the Incredible but True: Ballantine Books, New York, 1991
    World of Strange Phenomena: Little Brown & Company, New York, 1995

Some list, and for those who say, Friedman and Berlitz were exposing something, I'll say, they are only in it for the money. William Moore co-author.



I see where Pete brought the Bermuda Triangle into this. Berlitz wrote all those books.

« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2023, 07:20 »
+1
As an aside, UAP has itself been renamed.

It now stands for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. I'm not sure why. I liked 'aerial' better (but they didn't ask me  ;)).

Because there have been many reports of the objects submerging in oceans - they were transmedium craft.

The camera before anyone lames on that aspect isn't for taking utube ready adobe filtered gorgiousness. It's taken on a mobile phone looking at one of the optical screens. It was leaked some time ago and has now been confirmed as legit by the Navy. There are plenty more out there. This is one known transmedium UFO footage.

I must admit that when the word transmedium started being bandied about I did eye roll. But it was a classification given it transpired.

July 15th - 2019 - USS Omaha - Combat Information Center 11pm pst.

https://youtu.be/bTGRK9a-oHQ

This event involved around 14 different craft this was one they managed to lock on. Even took place over an hour. This is edited footage which shows the UFO entering the water. It isnt a balloon that has already been debunked by the Navy and it was 1 of 14 craft that night.

DETAILS
Minimum 14 targets.
Minimum 6ft in diameter - solid mass.
Varying speeds from 40 kts - 138 kts (46 mph - 158 mph).
Flight lasting longer than an hour.
Unknowns were self-illuminated.
Neither origin, nor launch or landing points were able to be determined.
Unknown vehicles picked up on more than two types of RADAR.

Still images of this footage were included in the May 1st, 2020 UAPTF intelligence briefing that I have previously reported on.

It is noted in intelligence reports that the spherical craft appeared to be transmedium capable, and were observed descending into the water without destruction.

It is noted in intelligence reports that the spherical craft could not be found upon entry to the water - that a submarine was used in the search - and recovered nothing.

This footage is unclassified.

Craft remain officially - unidentified.

 Source - Jeremy Corbell - https://www.extraordinarybeliefs.com/news4/navy-filmed-spherical-ufos


« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2023, 19:10 »
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Not obviously transmedium but never the less interesting professional equipment footage ...

Uk - Bristol area - National Police Air Service Sept 16 2016

On the return to base 21.30 pm pitch black they do some thermal camera training. They intend to attempt to track a plane coming out of Cardiff Airport using the on board camera. These cameras are equipped with IR thermal imagining as well as day cameras. They often find pot growing locations due to the high thermal signatures given off in people's roofs. It's quite common in the UK.

Whilst panning around attempting to find a plane they catch a different contact. One inconsistency is that they later state that the on board clock onscreen is an hour off. They couldn't upload direct to twitter so they recorded the screen on a mobile and uploaded that.

You can follow the conversation on twitter as they attempt to answer questions after speaking to the crew. A good argument was made on twitter for a Chinese lantern. However it was debunked for the following reasons.
Object was only visible in TI mode. Daylight mode showed no object at all.
Object was travelling against the wind.
Object proved impossible to keep up with in the helicopter as they gave chase.
Bristol Air Traffic Controll couldn't find it on radar.

They estimate altitude to be around 1000 feet. This would make another aircraft unlikely too. Too low for air traffic over that area because Air traffic requires you to fly above a certain height. And night flights are limited to those who hold that license and ATC would have a record of them on radar.

https://twitter.com/i/status/779325831101423617
« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 07:02 by Lowls »

« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2023, 22:14 »
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon, and for all the proof and evidence and answers, confirming it's nothing? The story grows and grows. People like a good mystery, and that one brings in tourists.

Just like Nessy, Champ, sasquach, the Bermuda Triangle or so many more. Well OK Area 51 is really something, but mythical beasts and UFOs that are satellites, landing lights, Venus, "strange disappearances" and most of the time very well explained, are the basis for a whole mythology.

Good for public speakers, books, blogs and radio talk hosts.

People who outgrew, ghosts, faeries, the Easter bunny and Santa Claus, still have more modern adventures, searching for outer space visitors.

The voice of reason - thank you! 

It is interesting how easily otherwise intelligent people get sucked into believing nonsense.  It was just a year or two ago the U.S. military released a bunch of videos with UAPs, some of which the military seemed to take seriously.  My first thought when looking at them was that they were artifacts, small insects close to the lens and similar things like that.  I don't have the knowledge or skills to prove it but those who do dissected them easily. 

Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it.  The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".  As far as I could ever make out, the "Ancient Astronaut Theorists" (or whatever it is they called themselves) is about three guys in their 40s who live in their mothers' basements and probably sleep with tinfoil hats on.  And that one guy with the wild hair - who wouldn't believe a guy who looks like that?

There was another show on SyFy or the History channel, I forget, about hunting for bigfoot.  Those guys were true believers and one of them, named Bobo or something, looked like he might have been part sasquatch himself.  They went all over the country and it seemed like no matter where they went they could find people who were sure they had seen bigfoot nearby.  This was not just the Pacific Northwest, which at least has large, wild, forested areas that could potentially hide such a creature, but in eastern states like North Carolina, Rhode Island, New Jersey, etc.  They had created a whole lore about bigfoot including behavioral characteristics such as calls and knocking on trees with sticks, which sasquatches supposedly use to communicate.  The fact that this 7-foot tall, apelike creature that is supposedly common enough to be seen often throughout North America has left exactly zero physical evidence over hundreds of years of recorded history never seemed to bother them.  In the rare instances where someone supposedly recovered bigfoot fur, DNA tests always came up as bear, wolf or coyote, yet this never deterred the true believers. 

It is a very interesting phenomenon.  For many people, once they get locked into a belief, no amount of evidence or data will ever convince them they are wrong, and in fact causes them to believe more strongly.  It makes no sense to me but seems to be a common part of human nature.

« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2023, 03:49 »
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Quote
author=sgoodwin4813

The voice of reason - thank you! 

It is interesting how easily otherwise intelligent people get sucked into believing nonsense.  It was just a year or two ago the U.S. military released a bunch of videos with UAPs, some of which the military seemed to take seriously.  My first thought when looking at them was that they were artifacts, small insects close to the lens and similar things like that.  I don't have the knowledge or skills to prove it but those who do dissected them easily ...

... sgoodwin is referring to the videos known as Go Fast. Gimble and Tic Tac. And the above opinion is everything wrong with serious investigation of UAP today. Not to make a personal attack at all. It just highlights perfectly the lack of any serious critical thinking. The fact that as he/she says they look like artifacts or small insects close to the lense is t first blush plausable. They admit they don't have the skills or knowledge but those who do easily dissected the videos. (Enter Mick West who is at this stage a laughing stock.)

But that is only at first blush. Sgoodwin further states that the military 'seemed' to take them seriously. And this is a problem isn't it. Because if we take this information without looking ourselves it's easy to write it off. But it is poor information. No disrespect Sgoodwin at all and thank you for sharing your opinion and highlighting perfectly the reason information like this is easily armchair debunked.

The videos were the tipping point for Congress. They were filmed in 2004 (tic tac), 2014-2015 (go fast and gimble).

In I believe 2015 the three videos made their way onto the Internet onto a site. They remained there for a short period of time and were suddenly taken down. But taken down too late. They were mirrored everywhere particularly utube. They remained there being taken down and re- appearing for a further 2 years and then. Utube was rife with armchair experts and balloons, seagulls, bugs etc .. were the common assessment but ultimately for a long period of time the overall 'facts' were that they were categorically FAKE. 'Look at the image quality clearly fake'.

Looking at them at initial release on utube you couldn't wish for a more mundane collection and most couldn't even begin to understand what they were looking at. Truly I watched them with great excitement and laughed. But I did spend quite a bit of time reading all the comments. Experts are everywhere and amongst the experts and believers, birds and dirt on the lens a couple of people were showing shock at how FLIR footage had made it into the net. I am familiar with night vision imagery and it looked like that to me. But what was FLIR. As it happens all the footage was filmed in daylight.

in 2017 the New York Times broke the story after meeting with George Knapp and David Fravor.
David Fravor served 24 years in the military.
Pilot for the navy for 18 years in various aircraft
Top Gun pilot
Top Gun instructor.
Commander of the black aces - Strike Fighter Squadron 41

Had been off the West Coast of the US conducting air and sea trials when he was ordered to go off the training schedule and investigate radar readings at a particularl location. He was accompanied by his rear seat co crew and another fighter jet crewed by two also. They arrived at the co-ordinates and in the calm sea below them saw a large X shaped submerged craft like an airliner in size with waves breaking across it. Zig zaging over the craft was a 40 foot tic tak shaped white craft with no visible markings or form of propulsion. After a short period of time the Tic Tac engaged them and Fravor flew down to get a closer look. It travelled up to meet them and mimicked Fravors spiral down. After getting within 0.5 of a mile close to the craft it vanished. Not literally. But it moved so fast they lost it in a blink. On their return he and the other pilot who had remained aloft to give another perspective spoke with their crew and colleagues by the crew of the USS Nimitz Carrier. It was at this point he discovered the Nimitz had been tracking these craft for weeks. But because of the tight training schedule hadn't been in a position to send anyone to take a look. After this several other pilots did the same and attempted to film them. I think itbwas Chad Underwood who first manages to lock the FLIR targeting camera on the TIC TAC which is the video you see ifnyou Google it. The other two videos were filmed in the same way by different pilots.

And the story broke. And instead of shocking the world it perpetuation more morons to deliberately or otherwise attempt to pass this off as drunk pilots who didn't know what they were looking at. If anything the cries of fake got louder. David Fravor was dragged to speak to high ranking government officials to explain further. But not initially. Initially they approached the female pilot in the jet that remained aloft. She was friends with David after they had left the navy and asked him for advice. Because she had been very annoyed at the time, that these craft hadn't been mentioned. It was after all a serious air safety concern. Some of the pilots had very near misses. They had tracked these variety of craft moving between +80,000 feet and sea level in a couple of seconds. Across multiple radar equipment and visually and filmed them. She had been the person attending government meetings to explain the events. She asked David Fravor for advice and he offered to go to some meetings.

The rest is spread across the Internet and easily found. David Fravor gives a full and detailed explanation on the Joe Rogan podcast. It is available on utube but it is a edited version. So only quite short. The full version is available if you Google it (don't know if you can mention the app) but Joe Rogan uses that almost exclusively to house his podcasts which he also films. David Fravor takes you through the videos explaining in great detail what is being filmed. Another pilot who also witnessed the craft is Ryan Graves.

These were not sporadic events. The Navy Pilots witnessed these craft daily ... for hours at a time.

Anyone who claims the footage is artifacts, insects or birds  clearly hasn't done any and I mean less than zero research at all for at least a decade. And the government agrees and has created a task force to investigate every report.

David Fravor, Chad Underwood, Ryan Graves and Lt. Cmdr. Alex Dietrich and many more.

« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2023, 20:46 »
+2
Here are some analyses of the military UAP videos by those who know what they are doing:
https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/great-expectations-ufos-in-congress/
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/ufo-military-reports.html

I could link many more but it's not worth the effort.  The conclusion from all of them: nothing to see there.  Certainly nothing indicating extraterrestrials.  But I know no amount of logic and critical thinking are going to influence the true believers.

« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2023, 03:20 »
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Here are some analyses of the military UAP videos by those who know what they are doing:
https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/great-expectations-ufos-in-congress/
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/ufo-military-reports.html

I could link many more but it's not worth the effort.  The conclusion from all of them: nothing to see there.  Certainly nothing indicating extraterrestrials.  But I know no amount of logic and critical thinking are going to influence the true believers.

The New York Times released the story about the experience of David Fravor who's credentials are beyond reproach. Certainly no one at the New York Times can poo poo him or the many other pilots lol.

And the other link you provide begins with ...

"That team spent two years trying to figure out one UFO before failing utterly, giving up, and releasing the video as a genuine UFO. People online  (including me) then solved the case in a few days (West 2017). "

And there it is ... West 2017. Mick West lol. I'm afraid you lost your footing there. Mick West is a individual who's credibility is up there with Steven Greer. It wasn't worth reading beyond that I'm afraid.

Mick West is a computer programmer who has never served in the military. And after his company Neversoft made some great games he sat around and thought what can I do with my life ... I know ill start debunking stuff and ill start with ... chuckle ... "morgellons" ... 🤣 🤣 🤣

He isn't medically trained either. He also doesn't have any experience in the mental health world. But that's not gonna stop our Mick is it 🤣🤣🤣 Nope he was fairly confident and confided this "I wrote like a hundred little articles on Morgellons. Because I have this background in video game programming and debugging and investigating things, I was able to do fairly deep technical investigations of things ..." well of course ... he should shouldn't he ... being the expert he was. Peer reviewed were they? But bitten by the bug he now. spends his time debunking everything with his expertise.

Meanwhile a short while later he decided to dip his toe into the 9/11 conspiracy ... and good luck with that. However one particular aspect of some research I did was very interesting regarding 9/11 and I've never seen it mentioned. However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ...  have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone  ... 🤫




« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2023, 10:11 »
+2

.... Peer reviewed were they? ...
.../ However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ...  have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone  ... 🤫

where are the peer reviews in scientific journals  for your stories? do you have even one?

and what proof are you referring to?  or just another unsupported WAG?  there so many qualifiers in your last claim that similar 'thinking' could support a  flat or hollow earth
« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 18:29 by cascoly »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2023, 12:02 »
+3
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.

I have seen a UFO, but it was the purest from a definition. String of lights, up in the sky, unidentified. But they are not identified either. I mean it wasn't something that traveled or looked like what people call UFOs and Mysterious Space Craft. Just dots of light in the sky. Maybe a geosynchronous weather satellite? But unidentified.

And by the way, only some people assume that these sightings, most of them lights, are alien ships, there's no proof of that. USAF position in 1968 "there seems to be no reason to attribute [the unexplained sightings] to an extraterrestrial source without much more convincing evidence." They aren't saying UFO don't exist or anything else, except there's no evidence that they are extraterrestrial, without more evidence. A careful simple statement of truth.

However in all fairness, to the other side: Absence of evidence in not evidence of absence.

I will now return to my regularly scheduled forum messages:




« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2023, 13:30 »
0
]

.... Peer reviewed were they? ...
.../ However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ...  have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone  ... 🤫

where are the peer reviews in scientific journals  for your stories? do you have even one?

and what proof are you referring to?  or just another unsupported WAG?  there so many qualifiers in your last claim that similar 'thinking' could support flat earth

But I showed you a screen grab of the statement ... can someone who is under hypnosis be used to crash a plane or wreck a train.

« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2023, 14:26 »
0
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.

I have seen a UFO, but it was the purest from a definition. String of lights, up in the sky, unidentified. But they are not identified either. I mean it wasn't something that traveled or looked like what people call UFOs and Mysterious Space Craft. Just dots of light in the sky. Maybe a geosynchronous weather satellite? But unidentified.

And by the way, only some people assume that these sightings, most of them lights, are alien ships, there's no proof of that. USAF position in 1968 "there seems to be no reason to attribute [the unexplained sightings] to an extraterrestrial source without much more convincing evidence." They aren't saying UFO don't exist or anything else, except there's no evidence that they are extraterrestrial, without more evidence. A careful simple statement of truth.

However in all fairness, to the other side: Absence of evidence in not evidence of absence.

I will now return to my regularly scheduled forum messages:



The string of lights may have been Starlink Peter. We get it here quite often. I gave up counting after 24 passed over. Its been the bane of many an astrophotographer. Their schedule is like the ISS mapped out so you may be able to work it back maybe. But then I didn't see the string so I don't know how close together it all was over what period of time etc nor how long ago. But if recent it's a good bet.

And regarding the time lapse cameras that haven't recorded anything I'll behave like a skeptic so you can enjoy how it feels 😊
e.g. Pah time lapse you say ... what for a 10 whole minutes. Were you even looking for anything and let's be honest what qualifications do you even have in time lapse. Honestly these "photographers" find a button on their cameras and think they're experts. Show me an example of one of your so called time lapses so I can see the quality and see if you're even capable of processing one correctly and then we might be able to talk. Until then youre just another happy snapper with a catalogue toy ... 🤣 

... actually that was quite fun I may go full time skeptic. If only you would accept that our earth is flat then we could have common ground but you refuse to believe it.

As an aside I tried to get some satellites last night as there were a lot of them and an occasional plane even the dimest star showed up but no streaks across the sky. Wieeeeerd. None. And I'm wondering if the rumour is true that phone camera software now edits crap out. Stars were all there. No streaks. It certainly used to. No longer does. what.

« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2023, 18:32 »
+2
]

.... Peer reviewed were they? ...
.../ However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ...  have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone  ... 🤫

where are the peer reviews in scientific journals  for your stories? do you have even one?

and what proof are you referring to?  or just another unsupported WAG?  there so many qualifiers in your last claim that similar 'thinking' could support a flat or hollow earth

But I showed you a screen grab of the statement ... can someone who is under hypnosis be used to crash a plane or wreck a train.

do you understand the concept of peer review?  yours is just another unsupported anecdote - ie,  worthless as evidence

« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2023, 18:37 »
+3
...
However in all fairness, to the other side: Absence of evidence in not evidence of absence.
 ...
However  : Absence of evidence of an extraordinary claim is not worth considering..

« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2023, 21:27 »
+3

... is a computer programmer who has never served in the military.  ...
He isn't medically trained either. He also doesn't have any experience in the mental health world.

Not sure what being in the military, having medical or mental health training has to do with analyzing claims of extraterrestrials.  That is all irrelevant.

It doesn't matter how much logic or analysis is presented some people are never going to change their minds so it isn't worth the effort trying.  Enjoy your delusions.

« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2023, 23:23 »
0
]

.... Peer reviewed were they? ...
.../ However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ...  have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone  ... 🤫

where are the peer reviews in scientific journals  for your stories? do you have even one?

and what proof are you referring to?  or just another unsupported WAG?  there so many qualifiers in your last claim that similar 'thinking' could support a flat or hollow earth

But I showed you a screen grab of the statement ... can someone who is under hypnosis be used to crash a plane or wreck a train.

do you understand the concept of peer review?  yours is just another unsupported anecdote - ie,  worthless as evidence

You were placed on ignore because some time ago and out of the blue you were beyond obnoxious and not just to me. Its kinda your thing which appears to continue unchecked. I placed you on ignore because you are a distraction from moving forward in any discussion toward a potentially interesting conclusion or further information. Out of politeness I responded to your last of many posts.

An anecdote as you put it is not worthless as evidence. We live by the unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence every day. If you stopped long enough from mashing your keyboard and calmed down you would realise how silly your claim is. Dietary advice, fitness advice, purchases, food critics, holiday reviews, financial advice, main stream media, Google, everything on utube, what glue to use for inner tube repair and climate "CRISIS"!!!!!!!!!! Arghhhhhhhhhhh ... anecdotal evidence is everywhere. And you like everyone yaffles it up.

But you'll have to go back on ignore I'm afraid you are far too attack, attack, attack and lack any technique.


 

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