no scientifically knowledgeable  person claims we descended FROM apes  -=-  instead, evolution shows we descended from a common  ancestor 6-9 million years ago, so there's no scientific reason for apes to disappear

That is a little inaccurate. Our most closely related living relative is the genus Pan (chimpanzees and bonobos). Together with them we form the taxon Hominini. The closest relativ of the Hominini is the gorilla and then in turn the orang utan. These species together form the familiy Hominidae (great apes or hominids).

Here you can see the relationship:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominini

So, biologically speaking, humans are still great apes (a member of the family Hominidae). If you go with the common language usage, where the term great ape only refers to the non human members of that familiy, then you would have to say that we are descendants of great apes. If the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees would still be alive today, there can be no doubt that it would be classified as a great ape. Of course that is still no reason why great apes (or apes in general) should not be living today.

actually your mention of a shadow biosphere says the exact opposite - that there may be such organisms that evolved here on earth

Thank you, Captain Obvious. I wrote that "such lifeforms would seem 'alien' to us" (without being alien). Where's the lie?

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 03, 2023, 09:25

How would someone identify an alien skeleton?

obviously through dna analysis. Assuming they aren't actually descended from us they should in theory be different from us. But this planet is old. Maybe like we broke away from the apes "allegedly", they broke away much sooner.

Well if they "broke away" from us then they must have originated on Earth and wouldn't actually be aliens.  Maybe they originated in Atlantis and took off in space ships before their city was flooded and are now coming back to visit?

I do not know if we descended from apes. Therefore I wouldn't claim it to be so. Some skeptics would argue that if we descended from apes ... why do we still have apes.

You may not know it, but science has proven 100% that we descended from apelike creatures.  We did not descend from the current apes, nor they from us, but we all derived from a common ancestor that lived a few million years ago.  We still have other apes because they live in different environments and have not gone extinct, the same reason we have many wild species of cats, or birds or any other creatures.

Quote from: LDV81 on July 03, 2023, 09:50

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 03, 2023, 09:46

Quote from: LDV81 on July 03, 2023, 09:33

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 03, 2023, 09:25

How would someone identify an alien skeleton?

DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.

I read the link, it says it was human DNA?

What's the problem? Nolan examined it said it was human. That is the whole point. Read the context of the post. A poster claimed that there is some "UFO propaganda" rejecting all evidence that doesn't fit into the narrative. And here you have people like Nolan.

I'm trying to follow the logic here (without actually reading all of the links).  So someone found an "alien" body, tested the DNA and it came back human.  So not alien.  This proves that some people at least will admit they are wrong when faced with clear evidence, which gives them credibility if they have some evidence they think must actually be alien?  Even if it is a different kind of evidence that is outside their area of expertise?  I think that is the point you're trying to make.

Almost. Nolan did not find the body. It was sent to him. He never claimed it was alien. From what I have read, Greer was very angry that Nolan dared to say it wasn't alien. But Nolan doesn't care about such people or publicity. He doesn't care if you believe in UFOs or not. He is not part of the "UFO Entertainment Industry". He does what he does, and he is an expert in his field. And he is a consultant of the CIA/Pentagon in the field of UAPs.

So, when you have respected people like Nolan, who have access to more information than we do, say things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2DqdOw6Uy4

we should at least pay attention.

The theory of evolution is one of the fundamental keystones of modern biological theory supported by over 100 years of scientific evidence.

Amen to that! 

But I have to stress that evolution is a fact rather than a theory and has been from the beginning.  As I recall from reading Darwin's book on the origin of species many years ago, he spent quite a lot of it documenting clear cases of evolution and postulating others from his observations of living species compared to the fossil record.  Darwin was a keen student of biology and also was familiar with plant and animal husbandry.  He documented many cases of man-guided evolution of plants and animals by selective breeding.  I don't remember his specific examples but I seem to recall that he was quite fond of pigeons.  During his travels on the Beagle and afterwards locally in Britain he saw many, many cases of fossils that were similar to, but different from, contemporary species and deduced how they could have changed over time.  Darwin's great insight was that the kinds of changes caused by artificial selection directed by people, when effected by different and changing environments over the course of geological time, could eventually lead to the generation of species and the great diversity of life on earth.  People often like to talk about Darwin's theory of evolution, but I think it is more accurate to say that Darwin proposed the theory of natural selection as the mechanism to explain the fact of evolution.  For Darwin evolution was always a fact, the theoretical part was understanding the mechanism by which it occurred.  Of course we now know that there can be many mechanisms only one of which is natural selection, but that's how science proceeds.

To relate this back to the OP, if life did evolve on other planets then of course it would likely be very different from anything here on Earth.  DNA testing is unlikely to be useful except to confirm an Earth origin because beings from other planets might not even use DNA as a genetic material - you wouldn't even be able to extract it, much use it to analyze relationships.  It would be interesting to see what Nature on other planets could come up with, but I won't be holding my breath on seeing any of that.

What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?

What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?

 There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.

After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.

For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.

Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valle�. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...

There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.

Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.

Quote from: Lowls on July 04, 2023, 12:24

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 04, 2023, 12:05

Quote from: Lowls on July 03, 2023, 11:17

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 03, 2023, 09:46

Quote from: LDV81 on July 03, 2023, 09:33

Quote from: Uncle Pete on July 03, 2023, 09:25

How would someone identify an alien skeleton?

DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.

I read the link, it says it was human DNA?

I'll try this again. What do aliens look like? Height, weight, eyes, hands, just some basic features that we can identify?

Someone chopped off your fingers? Do your own research. Lol ...

"ill try again ... i demand answers now run off and get them for me 🤣

I have looked and I can't make sense of this, I thought someone who has the answers and experience would be able to give me some clear ways to identify what the aliens look like. As I've asked, it's not that difficult, is it. There are all kinds of claims and sightings, what do they look like? Tall or short. How many fingers. What do the eyes and heads look like.

How can you talk about all these alien sightings and no one can say what they look like? They aren't invisible are they?

Or are you just avoiding the answer, because you don't have one?

Yes I have fingers... I'll just leave it at, I'm asking a question, can't I ask questions? Jezz, nice answer "Do your own research.". 

facetious though isn't it. You know and I know, and you know I know, that if someone had a body in the public domain we wouldn't even be having this conversation. David Attenborough would be slithering all over it. It was a dull attempt Peter. Clumsy.

But you know ... perhaps if you did your own research and found one in the public domain you could be sitting there now ... polishing your Nobel prize.

Excellent avoidance and side step, once again.

What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?

What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?

 There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.

The problem is Pete you've already made it abundantly clear you don't believe a word from anyone. Me I get ... pffff random poster etc... but you don't believe anyone. Not military pilots. Not members of the public. Not government employees who's job it is to investigate UAP ... you claim are mistaken identity. Claiming I and others are avoiding your demands is ludicrous ...

Peter Page 1 and subsequently as well ...

"Just like Nessy, Champ, sasquach, the Bermuda Triangle or so many more. Well OK Area 51 is really something, but mythical beasts and UFOs that are satellites, landing lights, Venus, "strange disappearances" and most of the time very well explained, are the basis for a whole mythology.

Good for public speakers, books, blogs and radio talk hosts.

People who outgrew, ghosts, faeries, the Easter bunny and Santa Claus, still have more modern adventures, searching for outer space visitors."

Why would they waste their time Peter. Not side stepping tye question. Just who is asking it. And as a photographer you should know very well why any photos and pictures are rubbish. Cameras have got better and more prolific ... but they can't do much with a 2.4mm focal length or there abouts can they apart from zoom. Which you know very well doesn't zoom it just crops. End result - fuzzy. Most have image stabilisation. End result- Jerky zoomed fuzzy images.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/true-or-crazy-ufo-whistleblowers-coming-out-of-the-woodwork/ar-AA1dyMw4

Quote

In a June 26 interview with NewsNation, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) stated that multiple individuals had corroborated a whistleblower�s explosive allegations of a secret, decades-long UFO crash retrieval and reverse-engineering effort.

As the top Republican on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and a member of the so-called Gang of Eight, Rubio�s extraordinary comments carry particular weight.

According to Rubio, only one of two remarkable outcomes will ultimately explain recent developments, �Either what [the whistleblower] is saying is partially true or entirely true,� he said, �or we have some really smart, educated people with high clearances and very important positions in our government who are crazy and are leading us on a goose chase.�

�Most of these people,� Rubio continued, �have held very high clearances and high positions within our government. So, you ask yourself: What incentive would so many people with that kind of qualification � these are serious people � have to come forward and make something up?�

Pressed for details, Rubio stated that individuals with �firsthand knowledge or firsthand claims� are �saying to us what you�ve seen out there in the public record, whether it�s about legacy [UFO] programs or about current events.�

According to Rubio, the whistleblowers� statements are beyond �the realm of what any of us [on the Senate Intelligence Committee] has ever dealt with.�

I'd say the third option is psyops... but I don't know how likely it could be at this point.

I am leaning towards option 1. Am I certain? No. But it is a very interesting and important subject matter.

Denialists will say: "It can't be, therefore it isn't."

If what Ross said a couple days ago then option 1 seems to be the way it's going to go. It's looking increasingly likely that in a couple of weeks Grusch and the committee will be holding the hearings. But what is surprising is that it appears or rather Ross states that its looking more and more likely that they will be open.

A stumbling block is that those holding them won't have enough clearances so it's is being pushed towards Biden that clearances can be waved. Given the evidence it appears that if true, there was never any oversight and therefore clearances will mean little legally.

Further he states there is a movement among the skeptic community to bring the whole thing to a halt. They haven't been able to corrupt Grusch�s credibility so they are going after the Head of intelligence claiming that he stated that Gruschs claims were as stated and presented an urgent and credible threat. But that he meant nothing more than Gruschs claim of being hindered and victimised because he pushed for access to the special programmes. The head of intelligence has clarified that he meant the claim of back engineering craft following his own exhaustive investigations while speaking with people within these programmes who have testified under oath.

Some of the good bad and ugly uap footage clips out there recently. The one he claims is fake where a lad is filming it in a dark street ... isn't fake but it isnt a UAP. I would bet money it's lasers. We have that very display over our house at certain times of the year along with distant thumping music.

https://youtu.be/eGrQuIAJVeE

1971 more periscope photos

House Oversight Comittee to hold public hearings featuring whistblowers regarding UAP. Scheduled to run at the end of the month. Date tba