Author Topic: UFOs now called UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) Crowd Stories and photos. (Read 49030 times)

Lowls · « **Reply #325 on:** July 27, 2023, 03:20 »

One very odd thing happened with regard to the Senators that I can't explain. Other than being wrong which is possible obviously ... I'll paraphrase

When Senator Foxx spoke to Grusch she compared his testimony to Kirkpatricks and stated ....

This very contradiction and lack of transparency is what led to a Chinese spy balloons entering our air space. The lack of action by the Biden administration cause widespread fear and confusion and only after (some) days and only after it had travelled the entire continental United States were two jets deployed to shoot it down. This flip flopping ... (from memory) she goes on to say change is needed and with that she yields back her time.

I've watched the streamed versions on various platforms and they all go this way. I and a witness watching it with me don't remember it that way. We have a very clear memory of it and it went like this ... as above for the most part but ....

...and only after it had travelled the entire continental United States were two jets deployed to shoot it down and two other UAP. This innaction caused further panic and at a cost of (I think 70 million she said) Dollars to the American tax payers ... this flip flopping.

The witness remembers money being stated and remembers me ghasping when she said two other UAP and stating... oh sh&t she's gonna bring that up.

I can't find a version where she says this ... but I remember she did. Very curious.

cascoly · « **Reply #326 on:** July 27, 2023, 12:09 »

Quote from: Lowls on July 27, 2023, 03:20

...
I can't find a version where she says this ... but I remember she did. Very curious.

ROFL - just another example of confusing memory with facts

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #327 on:** July 27, 2023, 16:34 »

From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.

I have no doubt that there are videos that can't be completely explained, many first-hand reports of pilots and others seeing weird phenomena, or other minor things like that. But actual alien spacecraft or bodies? So far no evidence. At all. If there are really that many alien encounters nowadays there is little possibility that the military or whoever else could cover it up - if someone found a spaceship or part of one or actual alien bodies it would be all over the internet before you could say "TikTok".

Congress should stop wasting their time. If they want to get to the truth, then put on some pressure to declassify what the whistleblowers are talking about and give the world a look. Show me some actual physical evidence and I will believe it, but "whistleblowers" saying they believe it and know a bunch of other guys who swear it's true without providing any actual evidence doesn't cut it. Lots of people believe things that aren't true but will swear up and down that they have seen it with their own eyes. I still remember the bigfoot show where people all over the US are sure they've seen sasquatch but are not deterred by the complete lack of any physical evidence. Somebody on Nextdoor not long ago tried to tell me how they've seen mountain lions in Indiana for decades - even though they have been extinct in the state for more than 100 years (other than the very occasional one that wanders in from North Dakota, which we did have once about a dozen years ago). That person grew up in the country and was sure that mountain lions are there. They really believed it. I'm sure they saw something - a bobcat maybe or a large domestic feline - but it wasn't a mountain lion. Just like the African lion that was recently reported in Germany that turned out most likely to be a wild boar. It's the same with the aliens - just because you've seen something you can't explain doesn't mean it's extraterrestrial (or a terrestrial myth). It would be very easy to confirm - make something available for independent analysis by the global scientific community. All of the technological progress that has occurred during my lifetime (which is getting to be a while now) was mostly the next obvious thing - there are no major jumps I can think of that would have resulted from an injection of alien technology. If the US military is benefitting from alien technology then they need to find some better aliens - we are certainly better than the Russians but only incrementally so, and not really at all when you consider the obscene amounts of money that have been spent. No more congressional showboating, let's see the evidence! If it doesn't exist then stop fooling around.

Lowls · « **Reply #328 on:** July 27, 2023, 16:59 »

Quote from: sgoodwin4813 on July 27, 2023, 16:34

From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.

I have no doubt that there are videos that can't be completely explained, many first-hand reports of pilots and others seeing weird phenomena, or other minor things like that. But actual alien spacecraft or bodies? So far no evidence. At all. If there are really that many alien encounters nowadays there is little possibility that the military or whoever else could cover it up - if someone found a spaceship or part of one or actual alien bodies it would be all over the internet before you could say "TikTok".

Congress should stop wasting their time. If they want to get to the truth, then put on some pressure to declassify what the whistleblowers are talking about and give the world a look. Show me some actual physical evidence and I will believe it, but "whistleblowers" saying they believe it and know a bunch of other guys who swear it's true without providing any actual evidence doesn't cut it. Lots of people believe things that aren't true but will swear up and down that they have seen it with their own eyes. I still remember the bigfoot show where people all over the US are sure they've seen sasquatch but are not deterred by the complete lack of any physical evidence. Somebody on Nextdoor not long ago tried to tell me how they've seen mountain lions in Indiana for decades - even though they have been extinct in the state for more than 100 years (other than the very occasional one that wanders in from North Dakota, which we did have once about a dozen years ago). That person grew up in the country and was sure that mountain lions are there. They really believed it. I'm sure they saw something - a bobcat maybe or a large domestic feline - but it wasn't a mountain lion. Just like the African lion that was recently reported in Germany that turned out most likely to be a wild boar. It's the same with the aliens - just because you've seen something you can't explain doesn't mean it's extraterrestrial (or a terrestrial myth). It would be very easy to confirm - make something available for independent analysis by the global scientific community. All of the technological progress that has occurred during my lifetime (which is getting to be a while now) was mostly the next obvious thing - there are no major jumps I can think of that would have resulted from an injection of alien technology. If the US military is benefitting from alien technology then they need to find some better aliens - we are certainly better than the Russians but only incrementally so, and not really at all when you consider the obscene amounts of money that have been spent. No more congressional showboating, let's see the evidence! If it doesn't exist then stop fooling around.

I get what you're saying. And it is all incorrect. You are missing the history of each of the pilots. The history of grusch and the procedures of Congress. You are missing large pieces of the puzzle but asking for answers. Unfortunately those answers require effort on your part to put the hearings into the jaw dropping context that they were. Now I have already explained many of these points in previous posts but unfortunately either you didn't read and watch them or you did and don't believe them. But you know this will happen now whether you believe it or not. At this point it is a train that is coming down the line at us and no matter what your stand point its going to keep coming. Nothing will stop it now. Nothing. This was historic and its becoming more and more obvious that is is entirely meticulously orchestrated.

There will now be a flood of whistle blowers who are going to provide proof to congress regarding David Grushes claims which while you state are made up or hearsay whatever... they are anything but. They are all very true. They are fact no ambiguity. So you can either watch the pilots testimony or recollections online while you walk the dog or wash up or whatever or ... don't. It matters not. It's coming. This has never, ever, happened before. I've followed this area for decades and it has never ever gone down like this. But I get that for you, it's like.having to learn how to use the Internet for the first time.
But if you have twitter follow
Ross coulthart reporter/journalist
Jeremy Corbell journalist
James Fox film maker
George Knapp Journalist
Ryan Graves pilot witnessed fleet on radar East coast
Chad Underwood Pilot filmed Tic Tac video
Alex Dietrich Pilot - witnesses tic tac with Dave Fravor
Dave Fravor Top Gun Instructor

Of the dross that I've sifted through for decades these individuals recollections and research is second to none.

Avoid Mick West you'll be wasting your time the guy is a grifter and a liar.

Enjoy.

LDV81 · « **Reply #329 on:** July 27, 2023, 17:05 »

Quote from: sgoodwin4813 on July 27, 2023, 16:34

From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.

So, you are relying on hearsay? Watch the hearing yourself. Documentation, including the names of involved people and addresses, has been provided to the Inspector General. Additional details have been provided behind closed doors, as I understand it. A guy who had been conducting an official investigation in this field testified under oath before the Congress. Do you grasp the magnitude of this event? That investigation had been his job, he just presented his findings in the Congress, under oath.

If this was some kind of farce, some kind of prank, then you, dear Americans, have some serious issues in your country and must ask yourself some serious questions.

I have a feeling that even if a giant UFO landed in front of the White House and aliens came out, many denialists would still deny it, because it doesn't fit into their world view. It would be "a trick of the light", or the infamous "swamp gas".

Big Toe · « **Reply #330 on:** July 27, 2023, 17:15 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 17:23

Quote from: Big Toe on July 24, 2023, 16:30
With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.

1. "The current technology" is the key word here. And that "current technology" is only a few generations ahead of the bicycle... In the grand scheme of things, it is probably incredibly primitive.

I already alllowed for huge advancements in technology. But even Scotty can't change the laws of physics.

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 17:23

2. Einstein's physics superseded Newtonian physics. It is conceivable that for sufficiently advanced beings, Einsteinian physics is below kindergarten level, metaphorically speaking.

It should be noted that for most pratical purposes you can still use the Newtonian equations. You only have to consider relativity when the speed gets really fast or the results need to be extremely accurate. It is very likely that it will be the same with whatever theories might one day replace Einsteins theories. So it will very likely still not be possible for particles with rest mass to exceed or even reach the speed of light.

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 17:23

3. Even within Einsteinian physics, due to time dilation, time flows much more slowly for beings inside a fast-moving craft. Even if they can "only approach" the speed of light, not much time would pass inside the craft even if it has travelled for thousands of light years. From the perspective of a photon travelling at the speed of light, no time has elapsed even after the photon has travelled for billions of light years. For the photon, it happens instantly.

You need to have a speed that approaches light speed really close for that to become of relevance. In order to accelerate particles with rest mass to that speed, you need really huge amounts of energy. CERN uses as much electricity as a city of 290.000 people and that is just to accelerate a few protons and electrons to that speed. Imagine the energy you would need to bring a star ship to that speed.

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 17:23

Also, we don't know anything about their lifespans. Maybe they just send drones, von Neumann's probes or whatever.

Maybe they have working Alcubierre drives. And Alcubierre drive is just one proposed loophole allowing to effectively reach the destination faster than light. Maybe there are other loopholes.

An Alcubierre drives is a kind of warp drive, from what I have read. I never thought I would say that, but: Have you been watching too much Star Trek?

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 17:23

4. If they can operate in at least one more dimension than us (string theory proposes 11 dimensions), then they could instantly reach any point in our 4D spacetime. Our 4D spacetime would be like Flatland to them.

The additonal dimensions are wrapped up at quantum level, though. You cannot travel in them.

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 17:23

5. Watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman to understand why spacetime is not fundamental. It is conceivable that super highly-developed entities do not even travel THROUGH spacetime. This could potentially explain some of the "woo" things about the phenomenon.

The perception of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension is what evolution gave us. It is not absolute and it is not fundamental. It was the minimum required for our survival as a species. Hoffman has showed evidence that evolution hid the rest of reality from our perception.

That does not sound like something I would be interested in watching.

Big Toe · « **Reply #331 on:** July 27, 2023, 17:19 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 24, 2023, 18:05

Quote from: Big Toe on July 24, 2023, 16:30
But then, according to the non-denialists, they just hang around here for decades (or some people believe even for centuries or millenia) without making formal contact and sometimes get seen by some people and sometimes they lose an aircraft for whatever reason and don't seem to be able to retrieve it before the US government seizes it, inspite of their advanced technology.

1. The "losses" may very well be intentional. For example, an intelligence test for "wild primates" on this planet. Humans conduct similar tests with mirrors placed in jungles and forests. Or to cause certain developments on Earth, kind of like the monolith in Space Odyssey 2001.

2. The craft may be some cheap drones that they don't care about.

They can't judge our intelligence from our level of technology and by following our media outlets and reading our scientific papers? Those aliens don't seem to be very intelligent.

LDV81 · « **Reply #332 on:** July 27, 2023, 17:23 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 27, 2023, 17:15

I already alllowed for huge advancements in technology. But even Scotty can't change the laws of physics.

I think your interpretation of the word "huge" is very limited.

Quote from: Big Toe on July 27, 2023, 17:15

That does not sound like something I would be interested in watching.

Then it is your loss. Going out of one's comfort zone and broadening one's horizons can sometimes be enlightening. Enjoy your stay in Plato's Cave.

LDV81 · « **Reply #333 on:** July 27, 2023, 17:33 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 27, 2023, 17:15

An Alcubierre drives is a kind of warp drive, from what I have read. I never thought I would say that, but: Have you been watching too much Star Trek?

Are you ridiculing the theoretical work of a serious physicist, just because it happens to have been inspired by Star Trek? Then go back to the books of Jules Verne and see how science-fiction can sometimes anticipate future technological advancements. Of course, people without imagination will never invent anything.

Big Toe · « **Reply #334 on:** July 27, 2023, 18:08 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 27, 2023, 17:33

Quote from: Big Toe on July 27, 2023, 17:15
An Alcubierre drives is a kind of warp drive, from what I have read. I never thought I would say that, but: Have you been watching too much Star Trek?

Are you ridiculing the theoretical work of a serious physicist, just because it happens to have been inspired by Star Trek? Then go back to the books of Jules Verne and see how science-fiction can sometimes anticipate future technological advancements. Of course, people without imagination will never invent anything.

No, I do not. Inspriration by Star Trek is fine. However, I cannot take the Alcubierre drive particularly serious since it requires the existence of exotic matter or other forms of negative energy fields and even if they would be found, you would still have to produce them in large quantaties, which is unlikely to be feasible.

It is one thing to theorize about the theoretical possibility of such a drive and another to consider it as a pratical solution to the problem of interstellar travel, even for alien civilisations.

LDV81 · « **Reply #335 on:** July 27, 2023, 18:12 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 27, 2023, 17:15

You need to have a speed that approaches light speed really close for that to become of relevance. In order to accelerate particles with rest mass to that speed, you need really huge amounts of energy. CERN uses as much electricity as a city of 290.000 people and that is just to accelerate a few protons and electrons to that speed. Imagine the energy you would need to bring a star ship to that speed.

Imagine the technology that humans had 500 years ago and compare it with what we have now. Then imagine a civilization or beings that are thousands, millions or billions years ahead of humans. And imagine the technology that they might have. Requirement: imagination.

LDV81 · « **Reply #336 on:** July 27, 2023, 18:23 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 27, 2023, 18:08

No, I do not. Inspriration by Star Trek is fine. However, I cannot take the Alcubierre drive particularly serious since it requires the existence of exotic matter or other forms of negative energy fields and even if they would be found, you would still have to produce them in large quantaties, which is unlikely to be feasible.

It is one thing to theorize about the theoretical possibility of such a drive and another to consider it as a pratical solution to the problem of interstellar travel, even for alien civilisations.

Yeah, at the moment it is certainly not feasible, no question about it. But that's not the point. The point is that you can think of loopholes in the theory of relativity. You don't violate any existing laws, and still reach the destination faster than light. Alcubierre drive is just one example of a loophole. It is conceivable that an advanced civilization has come up with other, possibly better loopholes including such that they can implement and use.

Big Toe · « **Reply #337 on:** July 28, 2023, 05:40 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 27, 2023, 18:23

Quote from: Big Toe on July 27, 2023, 18:08
No, I do not. Inspriration by Star Trek is fine. However, I cannot take the Alcubierre drive particularly serious since it requires the existence of exotic matter or other forms of negative energy fields and even if they would be found, you would still have to produce them in large quantaties, which is unlikely to be feasible.

It is one thing to theorize about the theoretical possibility of such a drive and another to consider it as a pratical solution to the problem of interstellar travel, even for alien civilisations.

Yeah, at the moment it is certainly not feasible, no question about it. But that's not the point. The point is that you can think of loopholes in the theory of relativity. You don't violate any existing laws, and still reach the destination faster than light. Alcubierre drive is just one example of a loophole. It is conceivable that an advanced civilization has come up with other, possibly better loopholes including such that they can implement and use.

Well, it looks like we have a fundamentally different view of physics. I am convinced that there are some general laws of physics that will never be broken.

There cannot be a temperature below zero degree Kelvin, there cannot be a perpetual motion machine, two solid objects cannot occupy the same space, you cannot travel back in time and no particle or object with rest mass can reach or even exceed the speed of light.

You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.

Now I may be wrong about that, but until I have been proven wrong, I think it is far more likely that the people who say they saw alien star ships misinterpret what they saw or misremember or lie or are delusional. After all, we know that people do those things all the time. So in my opinion, it is a far more likely explanation for what those people say then that we are completely wrong about the laws of physics.

LDV81 · « **Reply #338 on:** July 28, 2023, 07:58 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 28, 2023, 05:40

You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.

Imagine explaining to people living 500 years ago the idea of a plane, made of heavy steel, taking onboard hundreds of people and flying them to the other side of the world within hours. They would say similar things to you: "it is not possible, it is insane, only birds and insects can fly because they are lightweight etc." That idea would be beyond their paradigms. And there you have people like Leonardo da Vinci, who thought flying machines were possible. He could conceive things beyond the current paradigms. Most likely, he failed to build a working flying machine, not to mention something like a modern plane, but he was right about the idea of flying in a machine. He was a visionary, even if his contemporaries would laugh at some of his ideas.

People with your attitude never invent anything groundbreaking and they never push the boundaries of human knowledge. They assume that the current paradigms are the pinnacle of wisdom and development and they cannot even imagine anything beyond the paradigms. Happy in their Plato's Cave, never accepting the idea of a reality beyond the cave and convinced that the shadows on the walls are the real thing.

Lowls · « **Reply #339 on:** July 28, 2023, 10:03 »

Quote from: Big Toe on July 28, 2023, 05:40

Quote from: LDV81 on July 27, 2023, 18:23
Quote from: Big Toe on July 27, 2023, 18:08
No, I do not. Inspriration by Star Trek is fine. However, I cannot take the Alcubierre drive particularly serious since it requires the existence of exotic matter or other forms of negative energy fields and even if they would be found, you would still have to produce them in large quantaties, which is unlikely to be feasible.

It is one thing to theorize about the theoretical possibility of such a drive and another to consider it as a pratical solution to the problem of interstellar travel, even for alien civilisations.

Yeah, at the moment it is certainly not feasible, no question about it. But that's not the point. The point is that you can think of loopholes in the theory of relativity. You don't violate any existing laws, and still reach the destination faster than light. Alcubierre drive is just one example of a loophole. It is conceivable that an advanced civilization has come up with other, possibly better loopholes including such that they can implement and use.

Well, it looks like we have a fundamentally different view of physics. I am convinced that there are some general laws of physics that will never be broken.

There cannot be a temperature below zero degree Kelvin, there cannot be a perpetual motion machine, two solid objects cannot occupy the same space, you cannot travel back in time and no particle or object with rest mass can reach or even exceed the speed of light.

You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.

Now I may be wrong about that, but until I have been proven wrong, I think it is far more likely that the people who say they saw alien star ships misinterpret what they saw or misremember or lie or are delusional. After all, we know that people do those things all the time. So in my opinion, it is a far more likely explanation for what those people say then that we are completely wrong about the laws of physics.

Perpetual motion machines - planets?

It's been theorised by Bob Lazar. Now you can poo poo Bob Lazar unfortunately his testimony keeps coming true. Element 115 is now achievable.
His door entry hand measuring device can actually be bought on ebay from vintage sellers.
He did work at Los Alamos.
It seem clear we do posses craft although he never claimed that they were driven by aliens but when he examined internally one of the craft the panels and entrance size meant he had to crouch. Looks like we will be finding out because law are being drawn up to bypass secrecy clauses.

He theorised when speaking to Dave Fravor that perhaps our perceptions were that the craft moved fast.

Our perception is based on our cognitive frame rate. Can't remember the number off hand but in our case adrenaline increases the frame rate which slows things down when experiencing trauma. This is a fact I've experienced this myself in near death experiences 3 times. Everything slowed down and allowed me to make, in two of the circumstances life saving decisions. Anyway Bob suggested that they I presume mechanically create a faster frame rate around them in which they choose a location and travel there at less dangerous speeds for physical survival but our perception of the event is physically impossible for our technology because it appears so fast. Flies see us in slow motion and a tortoises frame rate is so low if we move fast we just appear as a blur. Was a cool documentary.

Lowls · « **Reply #340 on:** July 28, 2023, 13:57 »

Following the hearings Dr Sean Kirkpatrick has taken it upon himself to issue a personal statement regarding the allegations made by David Grusch. He makes two errors here ...
1. He should never jave done this because the allegations were levelled at him personally not the AARO organisation as a whole and
2. He lied. Despite the fact that he claims and doubles down at the end of the statement to claim no credible evidence has been seen by AARO it is a proven fact that following his statement stating this before Congress many service personnel who had supplied him and his team with video, radar, and eye witness testimony from a variety of cross referenced platforms (ship, shore and air data) He still claims that ... nothing to see here.

AARO for those who don't know consists of two teams. Each are given the data. They conclude what it is or isn't and then present him with their findings. If the findings are the same he writes a report presenting the facts. If not he sends it back to them until they agree or he makes the casting vote.

This isn't scientific because all that data falls back to one man not a large organisations. Two small teams. He has now employed a NASA contigent to "enhance" their findings using better sensors.

The reason this is hogwash is because until the chinese spey balloons many sensors had their sensitivity turned down because they kept being set off by UAPs. It was the Whitehouse who mandated the sensors be turned up.
Secondly Kirkpatrick isn't stating that UAPs don't exist although that's the implication.
His evidence and subsequent conclusions are only from a National Security perspective. Thats his mandate. If they deem it not an NS issue he categorises it as a null value

a NS issue is subjective as the hearings showed. Congress does not agree with Kirpatrick. So keep your eye out for his resignation before he's booted. Its coming. Kirpatricks butt hurt response.

cascoly · « **Reply #341 on:** July 28, 2023, 14:39 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 27, 2023, 17:05

Quote from: sgoodwin4813 on July 27, 2023, 16:34
From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.

So, you are relying on hearsay? Watch the hearing yourself. Documentation, including the names of involved people and addresses, has been provided to the Inspector General. Additional details have been provided behind closed doors, as I understand it. A guy who had been conducting an official investigation in this field testified under oath before the Congress. Do you grasp the magnitude of this event? That investigation had been his job, he just presented his findings in the Congress, under oath.

so? how do you know any facts were revealed behind closed doors? were you there? or just more hearsay. what are their results of those other investigations? just a report on an imnvestigaion doesn't mean it found anything you claim. what actual evidence has been presented to show extraterrestrial visits other than hearsay that a friend saw something? -- i've never questioned the honesty of most reports; but just because someone has a firm belief, and testifies under oath is irrelevant in terms of providing facts. sworn testimony from eyewitnesses has resulted in deaths of many who were innocent.

and your continued descent into ad hominem attacks on what you call denialists just shows how weak your claims are.

Quote

If this was some kind of farce, some kind of prank, then you, dear Americans, have some serious issues in your country and must ask yourself some serious questions....

unfortunately that's been true of other congressional investigations such as the many Benghazi hearings that turned up no evidence of wrongdoing, or the continued refusal of many right-wing congressfolk to accept the 2020 election as valid

cascoly · « **Reply #342 on:** July 28, 2023, 14:44 »

Quote from: sgoodwin4813 on July 27, 2023, 16:34

.../ Lots of people believe things that aren't true but will swear up and down that they have seen it with their own eyes. I still remember the bigfoot show where people all over the US are...

one of my favorites was a busload of folk who saw a 'squatch' so close they complained of the horrible stench it gave off. trouble was it was just a prank and when the hoaxers finally came forward (with
the bigfoot sut they'd used) they also revealed they hadn't used any scent

cascoly · « **Reply #343 on:** July 28, 2023, 15:00 »

Quote from: LDV81 on July 28, 2023, 07:58

Quote from: Big Toe on July 28, 2023, 05:40
You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.
...
People with your attitude never invent anything groundbreaking and they never push the boundaries of human knowledge. They assume that the current paradigms are the pinnacle of wisdom and development and they cannot even imagine anything beyond the paradigms. Happy in their Plato's Cave, never accepting the idea of a reality beyond the cave and convinced that the shadows on the walls are the real thing.

once more you presume to know the thoughts of others. statements j ust in the last day show such to be demonstrably false - no skeptic here as made the assumptions you attribute to them - if you still think they have, please show such quotes. meanwhile here's one for you:

“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”
― Carl Sandburg

cascoly · « **Reply #344 on:** July 28, 2023, 15:06 »

Quote from: Lowls on July 28, 2023, 10:03

...

Our perception is based on our cognitive frame rate. Can't remember the number off hand but in our case adrenaline increases the frame rate which slows things down when experiencing trauma. ... Anyway Bob suggested that they I presume mechanically create a faster frame rate around them in which they choose a location and travel there at less dangerous speeds for physical survival but our perception of the event is physically impossible for our technology because it appears so fast. Flies see us in slow motion and a tortoises frame rate is so low if we move fast we just appear as a blur. Was a cool documentary.

you're confusing (again) PERCEPTION with reality. a change in frame rate doesn't actually have any effect on the real world. as you admit, things "just appear" differently.

LDV81 · « **Reply #345 on:** July 28, 2023, 16:50 »

Quote from: cascoly on July 28, 2023, 14:39

so? how do you know any facts were revealed behind closed doors? were you there?

Watch the hearing yourself. Some very specific questions were asked. And Grusch's answers were that he would gladly provide detailed answers and documentation right after the public part of the hearing ends. Either the Congress organized some clown show, or there is at least some truth in what Grusch said.

Quote from: cascoly on July 28, 2023, 14:39

what are their results of those other investigations? just a report on an imnvestigaion doesn't mean it found anything you claim. what actual evidence has been presented to show extraterrestrial visits other than hearsay that a friend saw something?

Did you expect that Grusch would show up with someone like Mr Spock or Chewbacca at the hearing? He was ready to provide in a secure environment addresses where the craft can be found, as well as a list of names of people who are friendly to the investigation/disclosure and those who are "hostile". Check mate, if true.

He seems to be playing by the book and doesn't reveal classified info related to the security of the US publicly. Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned. If that additional classified info was true/credible, we should see further developments in the near future. I am looking forward to it.

Quote from: cascoly on July 28, 2023, 14:39

-- i've never questioned the honesty of most reports; but just because someone has a firm belief, and testifies under oath is irrelevant in terms of providing facts. sworn testimony from eyewitnesses has resulted in deaths of many who were innocent.

If he has really provided proof that the US government has killed people to keep the thing secret, that is really serious. We will see.

Quote from: cascoly on July 28, 2023, 14:39

and your continued descent into ad hominem attacks on what you call denialists just shows how weak your claims are.

I think you are over-sensitive or are imagining things that are not there.

Do you even know what "my claims" and my position are? I have never claimed that what Grusch says must be true. I listed three possibilities that I see. But it is an interesting and important topic. And the fact that someone in Grusch's positition has come out with such bold claims is literally an earthquake in the field of UFOs. For now, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and I am looking forward to further developments.

And my main position in this thread can be summarized shortly: "guys, open your minds and broaden your horizons, so that you don't experience an ontological shock when the paradigm shifts".

Open-minded skepticism is great, but in this thread I see lots of denialism combined with ridicule. You don't need to accept the extraterrestrial, extratemporal, ultraterrestrial or interdimensional hypotheses. I honestly don't know if any of them is true. But if you strictly reject them, then the onus is on you to try to come up with a better explanation for the reports of unexplained anomalies. And if we stick just to the unexplained cases officially presented by the US military, simply dismissing those reports is very lame.

LDV81 · « **Reply #346 on:** July 28, 2023, 17:21 »

Quote from: cascoly on July 28, 2023, 15:06

you're confusing (again) PERCEPTION with reality.

Please watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman on YouTube, because I am sure that you're doing the same, all the time (just in a different way).

Lowls · « **Reply #347 on:** July 29, 2023, 07:07 »

Pressure mounts as the Department of Defence confirms that the leaked letter allegedly from Sean Kirkpatrick head of AARO is confirmed as written by his own hand. His claim that Grusch didn't work for or with AARO is proven disingenuous as it was Gruschs job to liaise with them in his job title which was to investigate and catalogue all special projects to brief Congress. Doh! And how did he publish this tantrum ... on a linkedin page lol.

Further it has been shown that Kirkpatrick failed to share pertinent satellite imagery with Congress. Presumably that shows UAPs as this was the context in which they were required.

As I said Kirpatricks days are numbered. I imagine he will step aside rather soon. With a nice handshake no doubt 🙄

Lowls · « **Reply #348 on:** July 30, 2023, 18:45 »

Body Language experts gives his analysis of Grusch, Fravor and Graves testimony and conclusion.

https://youtu.be/fhH0U6O35-U

Lowls · « **Reply #349 on:** July 31, 2023, 04:15 »

Various amendments have been proposed to the Whitehouse and have been refused. This one by Senator Schumer was not.

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