Author Topic: UFOs now called UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) Crowd Stories and photos. (Read 48744 times)

Lowls · « **Reply #475 on:** September 24, 2023, 04:05 »

Quote from: cascoly on September 23, 2023, 20:10

Quote from: LDV81 on September 23, 2023, 14:59
Quote from: alan b traehern on September 22, 2023, 06:38
Quote from: YadaYadaYada on September 15, 2023, 06:21
NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.

As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.
the story this far - lots of hearsay, rumors and conspiracy nonsense - actual evidence? NADA. and any critiques are met with ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the serious lack of evidence other than 'i know a guy who said they knew somebody who saw something'

if posts had to be constructive or interesting this thread would be done - all we get are rumors and links the posters havent even read!

And clearly you have read nothing posted at all. Have no interest in the subject. Have no clue what hypocrisy means and can't help but posting and exposing your rather nasty nature.

Odd you state that any 'criticism'.... well there shouldn't be any should there. Because if you had any sense you wouldn't repeatedly keep posing your toxic opinions in a thread you repeatedly claim is nonsense.

Lowls · « **Reply #476 on:** September 24, 2023, 05:29 »

Jesse Marcel Jr - Roswell Incident - full interview with National Enquirer 1979 released by National Archive I believe in the last two days.

https://unknownboundaries.com/12640-2/

Diana Herrmann · « **Reply #477 on:** September 24, 2023, 11:23 »

Quote from: LDV81 on September 23, 2023, 14:59

Quote from: alan b traehern on September 22, 2023, 06:38
Quote from: YadaYadaYada on September 15, 2023, 06:21
NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.

As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.

You have no understanding of scientific method or how real science works. You can pretend your make believe UFO fantasy is real, and live in denial. You can ignore and ridicule anything that doesn't fit your blind closed minded belief. The truth is out there and not what you rant on about for 20 pages. Repeating the lies won't make them true. Attacking others here is not answering questions or looking at the facts. You are deflecting and avoiding.

Your religion is a cult belief, aliens from space.

LDV81 · « **Reply #478 on:** September 24, 2023, 11:51 »

Quote from: Diana Herrmann on September 24, 2023, 11:23

Quote from: LDV81 on September 23, 2023, 14:59
Quote from: alan b traehern on September 22, 2023, 06:38
Quote from: YadaYadaYada on September 15, 2023, 06:21
NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.

As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.

You have no understanding of scientific method or how real science works. You can pretend your make believe UFO fantasy is real, and live in denial. You can ignore and ridicule anything that doesn't fit your blind closed minded belief. The truth is out there and not what you rant on about for 20 pages. Repeating the lies won't make them true. Attacking others here is not answering questions or looking at the facts. You are deflecting and avoiding.

Your religion is a cult belief, aliens from space.

Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.

Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.

https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.

But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.

For what it's worth, I don't know what the origin of UFOs is. But weird things are happening, as acknowledged by people from the US government. Credible and intelligent people, like Nolan and Elizondo had access to classified information and they say some interesting things in interviews, at least stuff that they are allowed to say.

I don't care what you believe. For me it is an interesting subject; if true, it is one of the biggest stories in the history of mankind. For many people, this thing can be a huge shock, so it plausible that more detailed knowledge is classified.

LDV81 · « **Reply #479 on:** September 24, 2023, 12:10 »

Quote from: cascoly on September 23, 2023, 20:10

the story this far - lots of hearsay, rumors and conspiracy nonsense - actual evidence? NADA. and any critiques are met with ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the serious lack of evidence other than 'i know a guy who said they knew somebody who saw something'

if posts had to be constructive or interesting this thread would be done - all we get are rumors and links the posters havent even read!

"It is hearsay therefore it is nonsense and cannot be true" - facepalm. Any report that is contrary to your belief system must be false, by definition. White-swan world.

https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

Most of the ad hominem attacks and ridicule have been done by denialists a.k.a. white-swan theorists.

I am not sure you should ask about "evidence", for your own sanity. I think you are not ready for "evidence". People in this thread are running berserk only at the mention of some hypotheses. Hypotheses! Now imagine a real black-swan event and its effect on societies.

For what it's worth, I don't care what you believe in and I don't know myself what the origin of UFOs is. But discrediting and ridiculing all reports is super lame, it is a kindergarten level of discussion. Yes, there have been many hoaxes in this field, but now some very serious people are onboard and ridiculing them is pathetic.

If you at least listened to some interviews with Elizondo or Nolan, it could broaden your horizons. They are not trying to convince anyone to believe in anything. But they have had access to more information than average people and share what they are allowed to say.

Lowls · « **Reply #480 on:** September 24, 2023, 12:50 »

Quote from: Diana Herrmann on September 24, 2023, 11:23

Quote from: LDV81 on September 23, 2023, 14:59
Quote from: alan b traehern on September 22, 2023, 06:38
Quote from: YadaYadaYada on September 15, 2023, 06:21
NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.

As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.

You have no understanding of scientific method or how real science works. You can pretend your make believe UFO fantasy is real, and live in denial. You can ignore and ridicule anything that doesn't fit your blind closed minded belief. The truth is out there and not what you rant on about for 20 pages. Repeating the lies won't make them true. Attacking others here is not answering questions or looking at the facts. You are deflecting and avoiding.

Your religion is a cult belief, aliens from space.

How embarrassing ... "or looking at the facts". Wow. Clearly isn't keeping up with any news at all. Hasnt read the posts at all. Hasn't verified any facts. Jesus utterly toe curling. Apprently this is an ad hominem attack. The claim of a hypocritic fool, particularly as the majority of her histrionics were personal in nature.

Perhaps you would like to contact Bill Nelson at NASA and tell him your in depth analysis and to stop wasting money looking at data. Personally I would. National "Aeronautics" etc ... but while showcasing "science at work" and proudly publishing their assement of declassified UAP footage and claiming it of no value managed to bungle the maths and forgot to include in their calculations of things ... wind speed. Overshadows your random rant some what. Marginally.

cascoly · « **Reply #481 on:** September 24, 2023, 13:43 »

Quote from: Lowls on September 24, 2023, 12:50

...
How embarrassing ... "or looking at the facts". Wow. Clearly isn't keeping up with any news at all. Hasnt read the posts at all. Hasn't verified any facts. Jesus utterly toe curling. Apprently this is an ad hominem attack. The claim of a hypocritic fool, particularly as the majority of her histrionics were personal in nature....

emphasis added

wow - hoist on your own petard in a single sentence!

-- you ask for facts when you provide none
-- you ask that we read your posts & links while admitting you havent bothered to do so
-- you continue ad hominems rather than respond to the content

are you really asking to be banned? you've already been given more leniency that people who have been banned for much less. but then, i guess a ban would just prove your conspiracy theories.

Big Toe · « **Reply #482 on:** September 24, 2023, 13:45 »

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 11:51

Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.

Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.

https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.

But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.

Who has ever formulated a "white-swan thoery"?

Even if we ignore the fact that young swans are generally not white, I doubt that any scientist has ever formulated something that goes beyond:

All swans that we know of are white as adults.

This does not exclude the possibility that other swan species may be black or that some mutation might cause an adult swan to be grey or black.

So, I have to ask you: who has ever stated anything like:

"Swans in other colors than white are not possible"

On the other hand, if some people would start to claim that they saw swans that spew fire or that they have been abducted by swans, than your average biologist would probably tell them that they do not believe that without irrefutable hard evidence. And I would agree.

Lowls · « **Reply #483 on:** September 24, 2023, 13:49 »

John Greenwald Jr -

John is onwer of black vault.com which stores results of a tonne of freedom of information requests. It is a very good resource. John began 26 years ago and is extremely knowledgeable on the laws surrounding FOI requests and what someone is entitled to know.

However this year John began submitted FOI requests to AARO specifying particular events that are public knowledge and a matter of public record now. However Sean Kirkpatric has taken a extremely unusual and probably unlawful step to prevent complying with any FOI requests. He has invoked the law enforcement exception to withold any information pertaining to the submitted FOIs. AARO is not a law enforcement agency and has no powers in this respect and yet has been using that legislation to avoid a response.

At present Congress it appears does not have a mechanism to prevent him doing so.

John has sent 11 follow up letters and appeals and has been ignored. Utterly extraordinary behaviour from a governmental body. Particularly as Kirkpatric has stated (not under oath and that is exceptionally relevant) to congress that AARO have not investigated anything that is of a non mundane explanation. A claim that has since been voided by AAROs own hurriedly erected website which shows UAP that have not be explained even after their investigations.

Lowls · « **Reply #484 on:** September 24, 2023, 13:52 »

Quote from: cascoly on September 24, 2023, 13:43

Quote from: Lowls on September 24, 2023, 12:50
...
How embarrassing ... "or looking at the facts". Wow. Clearly isn't keeping up with any news at all. Hasnt read the posts at all. Hasn't verified any facts. Jesus utterly toe curling. Apprently this is an ad hominem attack. The claim of a hypocritic fool, particularly as the majority of her histrionics were personal in nature....
emphasis added

wow - hoist on your own petard in a single sentence!

-- you ask for facts when you provide none
-- you ask that we read your posts & links while admitting you havent bothered to do so
-- you continue ad hominems rather than respond to the content

are you really asking to be banned? you've already been given more leniency that people who have been banned for much less. but then, i guess a ban would just prove your conspiracy theories.

I am certain you have made more than one petition for this thread to be closed along with your chums and a ban put in place but a moderator would probably examine your contributions and would have to bury you for months in exclusion.

You should buy a book on sayings and do some research. Totally cringe.

cascoly · « **Reply #485 on:** September 24, 2023, 13:57 »

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 11:51

..The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.

no, curiosity is a useful trait of the researcher, but the foundation of science is posing a falsifiable hypothesis then conducting research to confirm or deny it. please post the peer reviewed UFO-related publications of the people you say do science

Quote

Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.

But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.

For what it's worth, I don't know what the origin of UFOs is. But weird things are happening, as acknowledged by people from the US government. Credible and intelligent people, like Nolan and Elizondo had access to classified information and they say some interesting things in interviews, at least stuff that they are allowed to say.....

which critics here have said alien visits MUST be false? instead we ask for some actual evidence -- the results so far are that a few reports re UNEXPLAINED. it's those who claim they've found black swans to present actual evidence., not hide behind conspiracy theories that classified info is proof of extraterrestrials.

many classified items are for national security - that we broke Enigma wasn't admitted for 50 years. and much classified info may not really need to be classified, but the fact of classification doesnt prove anything about UFO aliens

cascoly · « **Reply #486 on:** September 24, 2023, 14:03 »

Quote from: Lowls on September 24, 2023, 13:52

...

I am certain you have made more than one petition for this thread to be closed along with your chums and a ban put in place but a moderator would probably examine your contributions and would have to bury you for months in exclusion.
...

glad you're certain you know what i've done. i made no such petition - among several others, i have the ability to ban a user who continually violates forum rules after several warnings. i've done this twice in the last 15 years

LDV81 · « **Reply #487 on:** September 24, 2023, 14:08 »

Quote from: Big Toe on September 24, 2023, 13:45

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 11:51
Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.

Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.

https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.

But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.

Who has ever formulated a "white-swan thoery"?

Even if we ignore the fact that young swans are generally not white, I doubt that any scientist has ever formulated something that goes beyond:

All swans that we know of are white as adults.

This does not exclude the possibility that other swan species may be black or that some mutation might cause an adult swan to be grey or black.

So, I have to ask you: who has ever stated anything like:

"Swans in other colors than white are not possible"

Do you understand the concept of a metaphor?

Once again:
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

cascoly · « **Reply #488 on:** September 24, 2023, 14:14 »

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 12:10

Quote from: cascoly on September 23, 2023, 20:10
the story this far - lots of hearsay, rumors and conspiracy nonsense - actual evidence? NADA. and any critiques are met with ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the serious lack of evidence other than 'i know a guy who said they knew somebody who saw something'

if posts had to be constructive or interesting this thread would be done - all we get are rumors and links the posters havent even read!

"It is hearsay therefore it is nonsense and cannot be true" - facepalm. Any report that is contrary to your belief system must be false, by definition. White-swan world.

please quote anyone who has made such a silly claim

hearsay cannot be considered true though, until some actual evidence is presented - that's one reason hearsay is not allowed in courts

Quote

Most of the ad hominem attacks and ridicule have been done by denialists a.k.a. white-swan theorists.

Most? please quote such attacks

perhaps your still confusing the difference between questioning an idea and personal attacks

Lowls · « **Reply #489 on:** September 24, 2023, 14:25 »

Quote from: cascoly on September 24, 2023, 14:03

Quote from: Lowls on September 24, 2023, 13:52
...

I am certain you have made more than one petition for this thread to be closed along with your chums and a ban put in place but a moderator would probably examine your contributions and would have to bury you for months in exclusion.
...
glad you're certain you know what i've done. i made no such petition - among several others, i have the ability to ban a user who continually violates forum rules after several warnings. i've done this twice in the last 15 years

Then your behaviour is even more reprehensible.

Big Toe · « **Reply #490 on:** September 24, 2023, 14:45 »

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 14:08

Quote from: Big Toe on September 24, 2023, 13:45
Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 11:51
Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.

Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.

https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.

But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.

Who has ever formulated a "white-swan thoery"?

Even if we ignore the fact that young swans are generally not white, I doubt that any scientist has ever formulated something that goes beyond:

All swans that we know of are white as adults.

This does not exclude the possibility that other swan species may be black or that some mutation might cause an adult swan to be grey or black.

So, I have to ask you: who has ever stated anything like:

"Swans in other colors than white are not possible"

Do you understand the concept of a metaphor?

Once again:
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white

I do understand what a metaphor is, but this one just does not work, because it insinuates that scientist have formulated that kind of theory in the past, when that is very likely not true.

Quote from your link:

"The myth of "all swans are white" is a classic example of an idea that has been historically believed in Europe, where there are no black swans."

This may have been a popular believe among non.scientists, but a scientist would rather have stated something like:

"The mute swan is white as an adult"

First, this does not say anything about other species.

Second, it does not categorically exclude the possiblity that there is the odd adult mute swan that is not white for whatever reason.

A 17th century might even have said something along the lines of:

"Adult swans are white"

But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.

If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.

So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.

So the "denialist" are kind of proposing the "No swan abducts people theory", rather than the "All swans are white theory".

LDV81 · « **Reply #491 on:** September 24, 2023, 15:12 »

Quote from: cascoly on September 24, 2023, 13:57

which critics here have said alien visits MUST be false? instead we ask for some actual evidence -- the results so far are that a few reports re UNEXPLAINED.

1. It is my impression that all denialists active here reject the possibility of alien visits. Let's reverse the question then: which denialists here entertain the possibility of alien visits? But: when you say "alien" (in the sense 'extraterrestrial') - it is already an assumption and an interpretation. If you listen to serious people who have been researching this subject for long, e.g. Valleé or Nolan - they generally don't make that assumption anymore. In fact, they moved away from the extraterrestrial hypothesis.

2. Demanding 'evidence' in a forum like this is ridiculous and unfair. Do you expect somebody to leak some classified Pentagon, Lockheed, Raytheon documents in Microstockgroup (assuming such documents exist)? That is nonsense. You need to realize where we come from and where we are now, regarding the subject. Anyone with thinking skills and true interest in the subject will know that a lot has changed since 2017. That year seems to have been a pivotal moment. The phenomenon was officially acknowledged, even though there was no official interpretation. And then the Elizondo guy appeared on the scene, dropping "breadcrumbs", as he calls the information that he is allowed to share.

Is it plausible that some compelling evidence and details are classified and there are factions opposing the disclosure? I think it is plausible. Plausible doesn't mean it is certain, but it very well could be true. Imagine going to a muslim country and present them "evidence" that everything what they believe in is false. You would not make it out alive and it would create a gigantic mess.

Now, this thread paradoxically shows why releasing compelling evidence to the public may be problematic. Only mentioning the subject has pushed several participants to ridicule the subject, and to demand that the subject is swept under the carpet because it is nonsense, not real, fantasy, etc. These people did not propose any alternative explanations, any hypotheses which could be defended.

I think right now all we can do is try to connect the dots, or Elizondo's "breadcrumbs". Something weird is definitely going on and it is perfectly fine to make speculations and formulate hypotheses. But ridiculing other's hypotheses and not provide anything alternative is lame and pathetic.

You do have reports of experiencers and researchers. You don't need to believe all of them. Some are known hoaxers, some are not credible. You can try to assess their credibility and seriousness on an individual level. You can try to verify the facts or even go with a gut feeling. But discrediting all of them a priori is lame - it is a white-swan bias.

Do I think Elizondo is credible? I think he is either credible or one of the best actors in the world. Could he be part of some psyops? I cannot exclude such a possibility, but nevertheless, he does have very interesting things to say. And I do think that he has seen things.

At the moment, it really looks like there are attempts to disclose something, whatever it is. And there are pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions within the US government.

Instead sweeping the subject under the carpet, you can try to connect the dots for yourself, come up with your own hypothesis and not bash people who dare to talk about the subject.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #492 on:** September 24, 2023, 15:17 »

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 15:12

And there are pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions within the US government.

Any information about UFOs should not fall into the hands of the Russians or China. All technologies of extraterrestrial origin are a secret and a military secret.

LDV81 · « **Reply #493 on:** September 24, 2023, 15:37 »

Quote from: Big Toe on September 24, 2023, 14:45

But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.

If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.

So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.

No, you don't get the metaphor, you're just trying to convolute it.

For what it's worth, our knowledge of the Universe and the wider reality is not much greater than the knowledge of the Earth's fauna in 17th century Europe. "claims that are very unlikely to be true" - unlikely within our very limited (mainstream) understanding of reality?

You just assume that the UFO phenomenon doesn't involve non-human intelligence, reject all kinds of proposed hypotheses, and yet you cannot formulate any other sensible hypothesis. Pure denial and nothing alternative to contribute.

A black-swan event is a single event that completely destroys a theory or a worldview. And therefore, denialism is an intellectually risky position, because it can be destroyed by such a single black-swan event.

Big Toe · « **Reply #494 on:** September 24, 2023, 16:48 »

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 15:37

Quote from: Big Toe on September 24, 2023, 14:45
But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.

If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.

So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.

No, you don't get the metaphor, you're just trying to convolute it.

For what it's worth, our knowledge of the Universe and the wider reality is not much greater than the knowledge of the Earth's fauna in 17th century Europe. "claims that are very unlikely to be true" - unlikely within our very limited (mainstream) understanding of reality?

You just assume that the UFO phenomenon doesn't involve non-human intelligence, reject all kinds of proposed hypotheses, and yet you cannot formulate any other sensible hypothesis. Pure denial and nothing alternative to contribute.

A black-swan event is a single event that completely destroys a theory or a worldview. And therefore, denialism is an intellectually risky position, because it can be destroyed by such a single black-swan event.

In fact, I am a believer in black swans. I just saw a pair of them a few days ago in a zoo.

I do not believe in swans abducting people, though. So, show me comparable evidence for extraterrestial involvement in the "UFO phenomenon" and I'll become a believer there, too.

Lowls · « **Reply #495 on:** September 24, 2023, 16:59 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on September 24, 2023, 15:17

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 15:12
And there are pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions within the US government.
Any information about UFOs should not fall into the hands of the Russians or China. All technologies of extraterrestrial origin are a secret and a military secret.

Ironically it is those very countries that are now leading the thrust to disclosure. America isn't even close. And as of Friday has taken steps (c/o Senator Mike Turner) to ensure that remains the case. Russia and China are being and have been very explicit and open about their knowledge and I terractions with UAP. The leader regarding disclosure appears to be Brazil. The UK remains firm that it ceased investigations in 2009 and has not re-instated any such programmes. This is a lie as it is part of the 5 eyes group and as such liased along with America to task Canada to co-operate with potential retrieval of "something" from Alaska earlier this year.

Further more the UK have deliberately taken certain steps to prevent the public finding out about certain cases. Rendlesham being the most infamous but there is a lesser known case. The Calvine incident in Scotland. Now whatever your beliefs regarding UAP and origins the Calvine incident is one of the most significant. It has typically slipped under the radar of popular ufology but there are about to be some changes regarding that case.

The short version is that two poachers happened upon a large ufo in Scotland. They took photos as proof and ran. They approached a paper to publicise the case. The paper approached a local military station for comment because the poachers interacted with the ufo as two fighter jets. A military representative was contacted by the paper and asked to see the photos. They obliged and then quite a bit happens.

The case was investaged by the MOD and they have held the details of that case under the official secrets act. This prevented disclosure of the details of the case until mandatory release some 30 years later. 30 years expired in 2020. release of information under foi was greatly anticipated but just prior to the 30 year expiry date being reached .....

.... the Ministry of Defence stepped in and extended the time period to a new date: 2076. The official claim is that parts of the file are open for download but details of individuals involved have been redacted until this time frame to protect individuals privacy. The MOD deny they saw any photographs and that any jets were involved. The FOI requests states that the negatives which had been leant to the MOD were returned to the newspaper at the time.

It is acts like this by governmental bodies that fuel speculation about UAP and their origins. Clearly withholding information. The whereabouts of the poachers is a mystery. Maybe they'll read this and come foreward. Who knows. If only the pictures hadn't been confiscated and no record of them found. This was certainly the case. Until recently

So the phenomena is global. Allegedly all the major powers possess them. No country has managed to get very far in researching them. Allegedly. But they are not limited to blurry dots on grainy film. The phoenix craft was reported on numerous ocassions to be 1 to 2 miles long. A police officer took out his speed gun and fired it at the craft registering 22 mph.

The Calvine UFO ...

Lowls · « **Reply #496 on:** September 24, 2023, 17:25 »

Quote from: Big Toe on September 24, 2023, 16:48

Quote from: LDV81 on September 24, 2023, 15:37
Quote from: Big Toe on September 24, 2023, 14:45
But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.

If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.

So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.

No, you don't get the metaphor, you're just trying to convolute it.

For what it's worth, our knowledge of the Universe and the wider reality is not much greater than the knowledge of the Earth's fauna in 17th century Europe. "claims that are very unlikely to be true" - unlikely within our very limited (mainstream) understanding of reality?

You just assume that the UFO phenomenon doesn't involve non-human intelligence, reject all kinds of proposed hypotheses, and yet you cannot formulate any other sensible hypothesis. Pure denial and nothing alternative to contribute.

A black-swan event is a single event that completely destroys a theory or a worldview. And therefore, denialism is an intellectually risky position, because it can be destroyed by such a single black-swan event.

In fact, I am a believer in black swans. I just saw a pair of them a few days ago in a zoo.

I do not believe in swans abducting people, though. So, show me comparable evidence for extraterrestial involvement in the "UFO phenomenon" and I'll become a believer there, too.

It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.

Big Toe · « **Reply #497 on:** September 24, 2023, 18:18 »

Quote from: Lowls on September 24, 2023, 17:25

It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions.

And I thought I was the one supposed to make the jokes in this thread.

Lowls · « **Reply #498 on:** September 24, 2023, 18:48 »

Quote from: Big Toe on September 24, 2023, 18:18

Quote from: Lowls on September 24, 2023, 17:25
It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions.

And I thought I was the one supposed to make the jokes in this thread.

Only our arrogance prevents us from believing its possible. Didn't say which planet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landings_on_extraterrestrial_bodies

And from those locations we ... are alien

and I kinda like your jokes because they feel light hearted not malicious.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #499 on:** September 25, 2023, 06:37 »

Quote from: Lowls on September 24, 2023, 16:59

So the phenomena is global. Allegedly all the major powers possess them. No country has managed to get very far in researching them. Allegedly.

The Russians do not have the research potential to study UFOs. The Russians may find a UFO, but they won't understand anything about it.
Therefore, any information that is declassified by the United States and other NATO countries will give the Russians a clue.

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Author Topic: UFOs now called UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) Crowd Stories and photos. (Read 48744 times)

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