Author Topic: Warning! - Check your keywords!!! (Read 32827 times)

HughStoneIan · « **on:** December 20, 2007, 04:42 »

Pete Bax on the SS forum sounded this alarm. He believes a worm infection is possibly responsible for this. He received a warning from the SS admin about his keywording. Apparently some keywords were being added to his images without his knowledge and he was reprimanded for it! "Dale Hogan" appeared in some of his keywords lists, which of course has nothing to do with his images, and thus caused the faulty keyword warning against him. I've been playing with searches of "Dale Hogan" on various sites, and the results are really weird. You can try it for yourself, but the main point is that you may want to do random checks of your keywords to make sure no unauthorized changes have been made to yours.

diego_cervo · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2007, 04:55 »

thanks for the advise
Diego

HughStoneIan · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2007, 06:06 »

SS seems to be downplaying this, but it appears DT thought it was serious enough to disable all its files that have both Dale and Hogan in them. Several bamboo texture files are affected (attention, Scrappinstacy!!). This is really weird!

PS- here's the thread at SS, http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30113

they've locked it!

Late addition: Wow! DT didn't just disable those files, they suspended those contributors' accounts !!!

maunger · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2007, 08:42 »

Quote from: HughStoneIan on December 20, 2007, 04:42

Pete Bax on the SS forum sounded this alarm. He believes a worm infection is possibly responsible for this. He received a warning from the SS admin about his keywording. Apparently some keywords were being added to his images without his knowledge and he was reprimanded for it! "Dale Hogan" appeared in some of his keywords lists, which of course has nothing to do with his images, and thus caused the faulty keyword warning against him. I've been playing with searches of "Dale Hogan" on various sites, and the results are really weird. You can try it for yourself, but the main point is that you may want to do random checks of your keywords to make sure no unauthorized changes have been made to yours.

Interesting! I was watching the recent searches on LO yesterday and saw "dale hogan" come thru as a search term and thought it weird, so i clicked on the link and saw the bamboo images i think you're talking about.

a.k.a.-tom · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2007, 08:47 »

Quote from: HughStoneIan on December 20, 2007, 04:42

You can try it for yourself, but the main point is that you may want to do random checks of your keywords to make sure no unauthorized changes have been made to yours.

................. with a thousand plus images spread over a dozen sites....

that would be a fulltime job for a few people.. I did a random check on a few of my high selling pix on a few sites... nada, zip, nothing. Dale's not living there............... yet. Will be interesting to see how this unfolds....

=tom

modify: Just for the heck of it, I did what maunger did.... surprising what turns up across several sites... not just bamboo...
this will be interesting.... then again, maybe the words 'dale' and 'hogan' have something relevant to do with a pizza cutter??? .....NOT!!
I'm staying tuned!!

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2007, 08:56 »

Quote from: HughStoneIan on December 20, 2007, 06:06

SS seems to be downplaying this, but it appears DT thought it was serious enough to disable all its files that have both Dale and Hogan in them. Several bamboo texture files are affected (attention, Scrappinstacy!!). This is really weird!

PS- here's the thread at SS, http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30113

they've locked it!

Late addition: Wow! DT didn't just disable those files, they suspended those contributors' accounts !!!

Yep, Scrappinstacy's account is suspended. Wild. I'm curious to see where this goes too.

dbvirago · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2007, 09:34 »

I think on other sites, this is an instance of people cutting and pasting. A hogan is a navajo hut. Probably someone used the keyword hogan for a bamboo hut and someone else copied it into s bamboo picture, etc. dale is also a word in addition to a name.

The search I did on LO for dale hogan returned many bamboo shots. They all had the word hogan, but the ones I checked didn't have the words dale.

a.k.a.-tom · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2007, 09:40 »

Quote from: dbvirago on December 20, 2007, 09:34

I think on other sites, this is an instance of people cutting and pasting. A hogan is a navajo hut. Probably someone used the keyword hogan for a bamboo hut and someone else copied it into s bamboo picture, etc.

Good point, db!! You know that happens a lot more than people will admit.. sitting there at a loss... "what the heck kind of keywords should I use... I know, let me see what everyone else uses..." I've done that myself... however, I do not just paste. I get the idea and I plug in what I think will work.

...funny you should mention the hogan. I was just reading a "how to build' article on a hogan the other day.

=tom

HughStoneIan · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2007, 10:37 »

I really hope they were just cut-and-paste mistakes. From what Pete says, it sounds like those keywords appeared in his lists after he already uploaded the images. Perhaps he and the others cut and pasted a bunch of keywords without thinking of what the contents were. I hope so. The alternative is not pleasant to think about---someone else besides the admins being able to alter your keywords after the files are uploaded.

sharpshot · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2007, 12:05 »

I don't think this is a worm. How would it be able to work on all these different sites? It doesn't make sense. SS insist that no file numbers have been changed. If this was for real wouldn't there be thousands of contributors with problems? I would have thought the sites have good detection software for dodgy files.

sharply_done · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2007, 12:43 »

It's fairly obvious that copying and pasting keywords are the culprit, not a virus or worm. If software was responsible there would be a lot more files involved than those from just a few contributors.

I can honestly say that I've never done this. From what I've seen, a lot of people put minimum effort into keywording. Some people like to limit themselves to an arbitrary number of keywords ("there should be a limit of ten"), others prefer to copy and paste ("dale hogan"), but most simply list the contents of the image along with a bunch of stuff that isn't there ("airplane,flying,wings,engines,pilot,runway,luggage,..."). Garbage in, garbage out ...

Pixart · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2007, 14:49 »

Dale Hogan, the photographer, likely uses his name in his keywords... then they are copied and pasted...

On DT, I remember someone else posting that his keywords were being stolen... "How do you prove that?", they asked. His proof: His user name is in his keywords and his username is popping up in photos that aren't his.

leaf · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2007, 15:38 »

for people who do not have a very good command on the English language, I would guess that stealing keywords is pretty tempting.

a.k.a.-tom · « **Reply #13 on:** December 20, 2007, 16:26 »

"stealing keywords"

I know what you folks are saying. Yeah, no way you should be punching into someones similar pic and just copy/paste the kw's over to your pic. That's nothing but being incredibly flippin lazy.

On the other hand... there's only so many words you can come up with to describe an object. Stealing keywords?

With animals and flora, I frequently use the latin names on some sites that specialize in such.... the buyers like having this. If I were to see those latin words on someone else's flower picture.... I sure would not go off the deep end contacting the agency.... oh my god, someone is stealing my keywords....... a hat is a hat is a hat....

and I used hat... so I hope I don't see hat in anyone else's KW's... insert laughter here... LOL I couldn't care less if someone copy and pasted my KW's... what's the big deal?

And leaf makes a very valid point. How many sites are we on that require the kw's to be english? I know if I had to upload in a language I didn't speak... I'd be skimming thru others kw's for ideas along with a dictionary in my hand.....

and as for me... I think KW's should be limited as well... I personally find that I use far, far fewer KW's than I did when I first got into the biz.

and one final point... if it's no big deal, why aren't we all putting our names in the KW's?

ludesal · « **Reply #14 on:** December 20, 2007, 16:58 »

I don't have much english vocabulary, well, I have more now that I've been on microstock for more than 1 year, but sometimes it's hard to find the words... so what I do is add my keywords and then I watch other's images just in case I missed something important... but copy and paste is sooo lazy! It reminds me of that David Byrne song...

GeoPappas · « **Reply #15 on:** December 20, 2007, 17:20 »

Just for laughs, I went to check my screenname on the various sites and didn't find anything, but when I put in my last name ("Pappas"), I found a bunch of images of clouds (among other things). IS, SS, DT, FT, 123, and BigStock had images with the word "Pappas". Out of all of the sites that I checked, the only site that didn't have any images with "Pappas" in the keywords was StockXpert.

Can someone tell me what the word "Pappas" has to do with clouds?

I doubt that they copied my keywords, since I don't put my name in the keywords and I don't have any cloud shots.

Pixart · « **Reply #16 on:** December 20, 2007, 17:33 »

ROTFL... at least two lazy buggers have copied my keywords on DT... One of them even has a big port of 1100 or so.... The one dude is from the Netherlands so maybe it's an English thing, but buddy... there is some spam in there as it applies to your photo. I stopped adding my name, but I think I'll start again.

budgaugh · « **Reply #17 on:** December 20, 2007, 17:56 »

I don't know if I believe what this guy is saying.

I've also found people using Ansel Adams as a keyword at other sites. I don't know if I'm buying this whole worm/virus thing.

It's called keyword SPAM.

lathspell · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2007, 17:57 »

About the changing file numbers on SS: AFAIR file numbers always change during the upload and approval process. At least they used to in the past. Unfortunately I have deleted every older "Shutterstock Submission" emails for my uploads, but I'm pretty sure that these changing numbers had been discussed in the past (because you are or at least were unable to find out which picture a rejection messages was referring to).

About Pete: IMO he has just got a computer worms and viruses paranoia. This is not his first post advicing each and everyone to check all files iimmediately, giving (unix based) stock sites lessons in (windows based) anti-virus strategies etc.

But the Dale thing itself is pretty strange ...

a.k.a.-tom · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2007, 18:02 »

Quote from: GeoPappas on December 20, 2007, 17:20

Can someone tell me what the word "Pappas" has to do with clouds?

ha ha ha haha ha ha...

Well George, it's like this... (this is a talk your dad should have had with you a long time ago)

There are different clouds, mommy clouds and daddy clouds.. sometimes called momma clouds and pappa clouds... .... and they get together.... and make bebe clouds... wait... maybe I better send you a personal IM on this... LOL !!

=tom

budgaugh · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2007, 18:07 »

I like the microphones with Elvis Presley as the keywords. Must be an Elvis mic.

budgaugh · « **Reply #21 on:** December 20, 2007, 19:27 »

On some photos it is ok to have dale and hogan.

Dale fence and hanging hogan are related with bamboo somehow.

fotografer · « **Reply #22 on:** December 21, 2007, 04:00 »

The real Dale Hogan has replied on the yahoo forums and left a link to his blog clearing up the mystery.
http://dalehogan.ca/blog/2007/12/20/the-dale-hogan-worm/

GeoPappas · « **Reply #23 on:** December 21, 2007, 07:56 »

Quote from: a.k.a.-tom on December 20, 2007, 18:02

Quote from: GeoPappas on December 20, 2007, 17:20

Can someone tell me what the word "Pappas" has to do with clouds?

ha ha ha haha ha ha...
Well George, it's like this... (this is a talk your dad should have had with you a long time ago)

There are different clouds, mommy clouds and daddy clouds.. sometimes called momma clouds and pappa clouds... .... and they get together.... and make bebe clouds... wait... maybe I better send you a personal IM on this... LOL !! =tom

Tom, thanks for the comic relief. That was hilarious.

But I still can't figure out what "Pappas" and clouds have to do with each other.

For example, check out these images on DT:

http://www.dreamstime.com/search.php?srh_field=pappas

Anybody?

a.k.a.-tom · « **Reply #24 on:** December 21, 2007, 08:48 »

George... I ran a pretty extensive run on "pappas" and came up with nothing possibly related to clouds, weather, the sky.... zip, nada, nothing.

Even cross-checked it to about a dozen european languages... in most, pappas is father. Maybe I was right... it's a "Daddy cloud"... LOL

I'm wondering if it isn't just one more example of the 'cut/paste' issue. May have been something misspelled originally.... ?? A quick check of the profiles of the photogs on DT would indicate that their prime language is not english.. who knows... now you have me wondering... what the heck does 'pappas' mean in this context? LOL I'd email one of them and ask but didn't find any addresses... guess it will become one of lifes little mysteries.... LOL

=tom

Moving on.......... fun while it lasted...

GeoPappas · « **Reply #25 on:** December 21, 2007, 09:22 »

OK, here is a stretch...

Going with the "papa" (aka father) theme, maybe they are relating clouds to heaven and God the father! So they think of a synonym for father, and they come up with "papa" and they misspell the plural of the word as "pappas".

I know that it is unlikely, but weirder things have happened.

I'm not sure if I should report this typo to the sites, since if someone was searching for my images they would end up seeing these instead.

ludesal · « **Reply #26 on:** December 21, 2007, 09:39 »

I don't know if it helps, but in spanish, "papa" is potato and "papá" is father

Pixart · « **Reply #27 on:** December 21, 2007, 12:02 »

LOL. The REAL Dale Hogan has something to say:

http://dalehogan.ca/blog/2007/12/20/the-dale-hogan-worm/

sharply_done · « **Reply #28 on:** December 21, 2007, 12:19 »

What I find amusing about this whole thing is that the "this is a worm/virus" whistle-blower steadfastly claims he didn't copy and paste keywords, "dale hogan" isn't in his metadata, and that he has been unjustly singled out for using inappropriate keywords. Yeah, right. Sure thing.

Alex · « **Reply #29 on:** December 21, 2007, 14:29 »

Take a look at the accounts that they suspended on Dreamtime. They are still up on some sites; the accounts they suspended contain a large proportion of images that closely resemble the photos and keywords of many of microstocks most successful photographers.

I guess it does not pay to plagiarized the hard work and artistic content of others.

Dale Hogan did a good job of outlining the situation in detail. I am sure he and many others are tired of blatant copycats.

http://dalehogan.ca/blog/2007/12/20/the-dale-hogan-worm/ [nofollow]

Quote from: HughStoneIan on December 20, 2007, 06:06

SS seems to be downplaying this, but it appears DT thought it was serious enough to disable all its files that have both Dale and Hogan in them. Several bamboo texture files are affected (attention, Scrappinstacy!!). This is really weird!

PS- here's the thread at SS, http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30113 [nofollow]

they've locked it!

Late addition: Wow! DT didn't just disable those files, they suspended those contributors' accounts !!!

lathspell · « **Reply #30 on:** December 21, 2007, 17:06 »

Quote from: sharply_done on December 21, 2007, 12:19

What I find amusing about this whole thing is that the "this is a worm/virus" whistle-blower steadfastly claims he didn't copy and paste keywords, ...

PB never copies anything, and he has made this very clear in the past. Every concept, every picture and probably every keyword is originally his. Never forget this when you are talking to or about PB!

JC-SL · « **Reply #31 on:** December 23, 2007, 18:11 »

Copying keywords!!

LOL... Thanks guys, I would have never thought of that one on my own.. What laugh... "I didn't copy your keywords, but might have copies someone who did"

There's a great joke in there... but I'll keep it clean. cheers, JC

http://dalehogan.ca/blog/2007/12/20/the-dale-hogan-worm/

RacePhoto · « **Reply #32 on:** December 27, 2007, 00:09 »

Coming from my area of interest, here's a few for you. Interesting thread, maybe I should add my name to the keywords on my photos, but I don't think anyone would care to steal them anyway.

Max Papis = race car driver, who's name is often spelled wrong as Pappas, now driving Grand-Am, was in Formula One and Champ Car, and others.
William Pappas = engineer for Gil de Ferran (retired)
Carl Hogan = owner of the car that Helio Castro-Neves drove in Champ Car

There you go, a Pappas and a Hogan, all in Champ Car racing in 1999. Dale isn't an uncommon name, and if you think Nascar, there are the well known, Senior and Jr.

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Author Topic: Warning! - Check your keywords!!! (Read 32827 times)

HughStoneIan

diego_cervo

HughStoneIan

maunger

a.k.a.-tom

PaulieWalnuts

dbvirago

a.k.a.-tom

HughStoneIan

sharpshot

sharply_done

Pixart

leaf

a.k.a.-tom

ludesal

GeoPappas

Pixart

budgaugh

lathspell

a.k.a.-tom

budgaugh

budgaugh

fotografer

GeoPappas

a.k.a.-tom

GeoPappas

ludesal

Pixart

sharply_done

Alex

lathspell

JC-SL

RacePhoto

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