pancakes

MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: What do you think of your healthcare?  (Read 8541 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« on: November 09, 2007, 18:45 »
0
Ok, well this forum has been keeping pretty geared to microstock, perhaps that is the way people would prefer to keep it, in which case feel free to not respond.... :)

I saw the michael moore film 'sicko' today and it got me wondering what do you think of your countries health care.  Michael Moore paints a pretty one sided argument so it would be interesting to hear some different thoughts of what people think of their situation.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 18:54 by leaf »


« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2007, 19:21 »
0
U.S.    insurance system,  medical system ......sux.

the rich can afford to get anything they want

the poor get it for free

the middle class takes it up the nose...  medically speaking...

« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 20:30 by a.k.a.-tom »

« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2007, 19:29 »
0
Well, if I'm hospitalized with anything serious then I will be broke for life(crappy health insurance). I live in the States.

vonkara

« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2007, 20:34 »
0
Wow. I have to go three or four times to hospital. One was an operation (non urgent). The others, some broken bones or serious sprain. What I paid for: 0$.

But, I waited 2 or 3 hours each times before been viewed by the doctor. I don't know how much time I waited for my operation. Not so long probably, I was too young to remember. Now, I heard there are some longer wait list for big operations, in big cities more precisely.

I also been viewed by 2 or 3 different specialist in the time to say hello. Whit 1 or 2 hour sited in the waiting room.

Some people say that our healthcare system is about to break because of the waiting list...They just don't know that our population is still and still ageing and that is going to end and recover in the next 10 or 15 years (The baby boom)

In general, I can say that I'm proud of what politician does in the 80' in Canada, especially in Quebec (province of Canada). Yes I live in Canada

My grand father is still whit us, after a severe heart operation, because of some politician heroes, that make the healthcare totally free, nationalized the hydroelectricity who make the bill lot cheaper for an essential need and the public educational system more cheaper too.

We all live whit our country system shaped by the choice of our grand parents who is sometimes pretty hard in every countries. But there's one thing who is important. It's to never make choice, just for money...Because yes, some people pay for that. But that the rich people who pay 40% of their incomes.(in Quebec) ;D

« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 20:45 by Vonkara »

« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2007, 21:23 »
0
In my country its quite simple , healthcare and music are close connected.

If you catch something serious you can start looking for bands willing to play on a humanitarian concert to raise founds for your operation.


« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2007, 21:35 »
0
When I lived in the USA I was covered up the ying-yang and had access to the number one hospital in the country to boot, so I couldn't complain.

I live in Canada now, where healthcare is (for the most part) free. Like everything else, you get what you pay for, and quality of service is generally lacking, as is access to state-of-the-art procedures and medicine. The USA is ahead in only this last component.

« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2007, 03:30 »
0
When I lived in the USA I was covered up the ying-yang and had access to the number one hospital in the country to boot, so I couldn't complain.

I live in Canada now, where healthcare is (for the most part) free.


Actually, I would guess it's not 'free'. If it's like the UK system, everyone pays for it sick and healthy, rich and poor.

In theory it's the best system as you pay according to your means, not according to your needs.

But getting it to work is another matter ...

« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2007, 04:29 »
0
When I lived in the USA I was covered up the ying-yang and had access to the number one hospital in the country to boot, so I couldn't complain.

I live in Canada now, where healthcare is (for the most part) free.


Actually, I would guess it's not 'free'. If it's like the UK system, everyone pays for it sick and healthy, rich and poor.

In theory it's the best system as you pay according to your means, not according to your needs.

But getting it to work is another matter ...


well not sure how 'free' it is in england, but Canada it is $0 every time you go to the hospitil no matter who you are.  I have been a couple times (broke my arm, sprained my ankle) and didn't hand over a penny.

Norway where I live now is baiscally the same system but there is a small fee.  I just sprained my ankle again and had to go and get crutches / xray and such and it cost $65, I was in a car accident earlier and had some xrays and paid $20 or something..... Here there is always a deductable which is crazy small, like $20 but it keeps people from going to the hospital as soon as they sneeze (like sometimes is a problem in Canada where it costs absolutly nothing).  But the deductable in norway is still small enough that absolutly everyone can afford it - and if not they can apply to have no charge.  The deductable also has a maximum of $160/year - If i ended up paying more than that in one year, it would be free after that.

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2007, 06:46 »
0
I am typing this with one arm - yesterday was in clinic in Germany to get metal pins removed from an old elbow fracture. Being from Canada, and having seen some rather dirty European hospitals before, i was a bit hesitant.  I was told that there is actually a sort of caste system in Germany -

lower class : public versicherung (but actually run by private companies, mine is from Mobil Oil)
higher class: private versicherung - when you have a 9-5 job at a big company and they pay for most of it

Once i learned this i got a bit more scared about going in for an operation.  Seemed like proper doctors and all,  but knowing that they have a monthly quota for the public insured patients made me really uneasy..  we'll see how this all turns out when the cast comes off i guess.


« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2007, 07:00 »
0


well not sure how 'free' it is in england, but Canada it is $0 every time you go to the hospitil no matter who you are.


What I meant was that although Canadians appear to pay nothing when they go to hospital etc., they still pay for healthcare though their taxes. Someone has to pay for it.

Yeah ... So it sounds like if you're a foreigner in Canada and need medical treatment, then it is free. But the Canadians still pay, albeit by a roundabout route.

Sounds like the Norwegian system is a good idea. A nationally-funded healthcare system, but with a small charge to try and discourage trivial treatment.

I haven't seen Michael Moore's film, but the US system appears to be a mess. I was shocked to read, just last week, that in parts of the US - Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, North Carolina for example - child mortality rates are actually rising, sometimes quite steeply. The latest figure in Mississippi shows an overall 17% increase.

And this is in the wealthiest country in the world.



zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2007, 07:05 »
0
It definitely isn't free in Canada, I have to pay around $20 CDN each month to the medical services plan.  I was globetrotting and forgot about that and got a serious backbill once i was back on the grid.    Now, compared to the 500 euros my German friends pay, it's nothing.

« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2007, 07:20 »
0
It definitely isn't free in Canada, I have to pay around $20 CDN each month to the medical services plan.  I was globetrotting and forgot about that and got a serious backbill once i was back on the grid.    Now, compared to the 500 euros my German friends pay, it's nothing.

I'm guessing that is for some sort of insurrance you have which would cover extra things like making prescription drugs cheaper or free, or cheaper/free dental and such.... or perhaps depending on the province you are from.

I lived in Saskatchewan Canada for the first 26 years of my life and never paid anything for medical things (hospital fees or insurance)

« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2007, 07:22 »
0


well not sure how 'free' it is in england, but Canada it is $0 every time you go to the hospitil no matter who you are.


What I meant was that although Canadians appear to pay nothing when they go to hospital etc., they still pay for healthcare though their taxes. Someone has to pay for it.


Yes of course we are paying for it through our taxes, but as I guess you realized I meant, what I was saying was that the individual doesn't have to pay when they go to the hospital.

But no - i don't think it is free if you are a foreigner.  Actually I am quite sure it is NOT free.  I was free because I was was a canadian living in canada paying tax.  Now I live in norway so I am under the norwegian health system (and get travel / health insurance when travelling back home to Canada)

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2007, 07:32 »
0

I lived in Saskatchewan Canada for the first 26 years of my life and never paid anything for medical things (hospital fees or insurance)

It was BC..  maybe praries people are healthier from the farm life?

« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2007, 08:04 »
0

I lived in Saskatchewan Canada for the first 26 years of my life and never paid anything for medical things (hospital fees or insurance)

It was BC..  maybe praries people are healthier from the farm life?

well maybe :)  but what does that have to do with having to pay for a $20 medical service plan?

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2007, 08:25 »
0
Well in BC for example car insurance rates are the highest:

2005 average earned premium by province

British Columbia: $1,404
Ontario: $1,347
Saskatchewan: $1,197
Manitoba: $1,152
New Brunswick: $1,044
Alberta: $1,036
Quebec: $988
Newfoundland: $947
Nova Scotia: $871
Prince Edward Island; $825


More poor drivers = higher car insurance rates,   more sick people = higher health insurance rates.   Its not the only factor but im sure its a big one.

vonkara

« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2007, 10:03 »
0
As I say, in Canada (Quebec), it's mostly rich people (40 000 $ and more) who pay more taxes and at the same time, the healthcare system. (40% of their incomes each years).

 People who make less than 25 000$, mostly don't have to pay taxes on their income each years.

There a debate now to include a moderation ticket like there are in Norway. It will be like 20 to 50 dollars. But as I say, what is making the emergency a little bit full, it's all the baby boomer's who are now more and more old and need some medical care. And they have some. Even whit this payment, they need this.

« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2007, 11:16 »
0
There a debate now to include a moderation ticket like there are in Norway. It will be like 20 to 50 dollars. But as I say, what is making the emergency a little bit full, it's all the baby boomer's who are now more and more old and need some medical care. And they have some. Even whit this payment, they need this.

But the fee would still reduce the amount of people at the hospital.  I am not sure who uses the hospital most unnecesarily, but I wonder if it isn't old people who are lonely that go for a 'checkup' every week... just for a social event.

If it IS this group of people the fee would cut down on the baby boomers who are soon going for their weekly check-up

vonkara

« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2007, 12:09 »
0
Maybe, it would be interesting to have some stats from countries like Norway (before/after) they put this procedure... And that's all about to not let these peoples lonely, whit some home care services. Another debate too.

« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2007, 12:13 »
0
Maybe, it would be interesting to have some stats from countries like Norway (before/after) they put this procedure... And that's all about to not let these peoples lonely, whit some home care services. Another debate too.

yeah agreed... some stats would be interesting to look at.  And another solution to helping people socialize.

« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2007, 13:17 »
0
I am typing this with one arm - yesterday was in clinic in Germany to get metal pins removed from an old elbow fracture. Being from Canada, and having seen some rather dirty European hospitals before, i was a bit hesitant.  I was told that there is actually a sort of caste system in Germany -

lower class : public versicherung (but actually run by private companies, mine is from Mobil Oil)
higher class: private versicherung - when you have a 9-5 job at a big company and they pay for most of it

Once i learned this i got a bit more scared about going in for an operation.  Seemed like proper doctors and all,  but knowing that they have a monthly quota for the public insured patients made me really uneasy..  we'll see how this all turns out when the cast comes off i guess.



Sorry to hear about your arm. Well yes there is private and public insurance, but personally I think there should not be such a big difference. The private insured have more benefits of course like having a room for them alone or shorter waiting times or so, but I do not think the difference is huge.
You will get what you need.
Maybe Germany has not the best health care system I agree, but it is still one of the richest countries in the world and Germanies doctors are well trained. I do not see a problem, that they do not have the tools they need or the medicine or the cleanliness of the hospitals. The problem with German healthcare is that there are not enough nurses and doctors, because they want to lower the costs. I do not think an operation on a private insured person is different than on a public insured person. (I am German by the way)

zymmetricaldotcom

« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2007, 13:46 »
0
Thanks, the operation is for the better, one shouldn't have lumps of metal inside them unless its necessary.

 My angst about the quota thing, is that as far as I know, its a euro amount per month.  So one doctor gets (just making up figure here), 15,000 in compensation per month for the publicly insured patients, after that, no more money.   So what if I was the last patient before that 15,000 is used up, maybe the doctor would be tempted to use cheaper procedures/supplies, rather then the right ones..    otherwise it comes out of his praxis money.

Not that i distrust doctors in general, as with a lot of other professions, Germany has some of the best.. but this kind of quota can't really be good on the whole.

« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2007, 15:25 »
0
Are you interested to know what happens in the 3rd world?  :D

Well, in Brazil we have public hospitals/clinics, either federal, state or municipal.  It is funded partly by a compulsory deduction in our sallaries and mostly by taxes.  There are some good quality ones, generally in the main cities.  In these, doctor staff is generally top quality, especially those linked to the universities - doctors pride on being professors.  However, even in these good ones you may have to wait for weeks for a consultation or an exam.  Some hospitals also especialize in urgency - one in trauma from car accidents, another in burns, another one in gun/knife injuries.

Almost everyone who have a job in a middle-sized or big company has private medical insurance.  Plans vary, but all cover doctors, hospitals, and exams.  Some treatments may be excluded (miopia surgery for instance, and anything related to an aesthetic-only plastic surgery).  A few cover dentists, and in this case also with a lot of restrictions.  The point is that these plans in general pay very little and many good doctors don't accept them, though hospitals and labs work with most of them, sometimes with exceptions to some procedures. 

My company runs its own medical plan, for which I pay a monthly fee (like an insurance for the hospital use) and a fee according to the use of doctors and exams. 

What my family and I have access to is restricted to a very small portion of our population, unfortunately.  Most private plans have many excemptions and limitations.  And for people living in remote or rural areas, medical facilities are very few and almost only public.  Curiously though, there is an excess of medical job vacancies in some areas, but trained people don't want to go to these places, because in general they are low-paying public jobs.

Recently my mother was in hospital for two 10-day periods, and that's when we see it's a blessing to have such plans.  She was very well taken care of, staying in a private room, the staff was not only very professional, but also very human.  On the other hand, her cardiologist, who does not work with any medical plan, said these hospitals run many more exams than she would have needed, like taking full blood tests every two days, so they charge the medical plan more because they pay so little.  But I guess there is some auditing from the medical plan. 

Anyway, I've always heard of excessive exams.  Most pregnant women who have access to a private plan do an ultra-sound exam every month, even if their pregnancy is developing normally.  I heard that in the USA it's the opposite, there is an incentive from private plans to doctors NOT to prescribe exams and women may go through a pregnancy without a single ultra-sound exam.  Is it really so?

Regards,
Adelaide
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 15:27 by madelaide »

« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2007, 03:15 »
0
It definitely isn't free in Canada, I have to pay around $20 CDN each month to the medical services plan.  I was globetrotting and forgot about that and got a serious backbill once i was back on the grid.    Now, compared to the 500 euros my German friends pay, it's nothing.

I'm guessing that is for some sort of insurrance you have which would cover extra things like making prescription drugs cheaper or free, or cheaper/free dental and such.... or perhaps depending on the province you are from.

I lived in Saskatchewan Canada for the first 26 years of my life and never paid anything for medical things (hospital fees or insurance)

leaf,

that's not an insurance that one is free to have or not. That's premium on basic insurance that you had for free in Saskatchewan. BC has this premium, Ontario implemented it a few years ago too. Quebec, Saskatchewan and Manitoba don't have it, not sure about Alberta and Atlantic provinces. So, while the visit to a hospital is free, in some provinces you pay more than just taxes. Also, there is difference between what is actually covered and what is not between provinces - certain tests and procedures may be covered in some and require payment in others.

Just saying it's not that straightforward.


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
50 Replies
12628 Views
Last post November 14, 2013, 17:41
by Spray and Pray

Sponsors

Mega Bundle of 5,900+ Professional Lightroom Presets

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors