Very one sided, especially since the reason that our nation (US) has been in an armed conflict since the 1900's it's because it gets attacked first.
WWI innocent people, WWII Japan, Viet Nam against communism, First Gulf war Iraq invaded first a defenseless country, Twin Towers went down first( no images or metion of that) Afghan terrorist breeding ground and Taliban, Sadam lunatic. Once again very biased and please Hittler killed millions lest not compare Bush to that devil. Don't like it.

Quote from: jorgeinthewater on March 12, 2008, 17:45

Very one sided, especially since the reason that our nation (US) has been in an armed conflict since the 1900's it's because it gets attacked first.
WWI innocent people, WWII Japan, Viet Nam against communism, First Gulf war Iraq invaded first a defenseless country, Twin Towers went down first( no images or metion of that) Afghan terrorist breeding ground and Taliban, Saddam lunatic. Once again very biased and please Hittler killed millions lest not compare Bush to that devil. Don't like it.

I think you need to refresh your memory: Vietnam has never attacked USA, and probably never will. During that war, USA killed and poisoned (chemical warfare: that's USA) tens of thousands of civilians in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. People in those countries are still stepping on land-mines and undetonated bombs from your heroic war against communism.

The result of that war: Vietnam and Laos became communist regimes anyway (and still are), while Cambodia ended up as one of the most brutal regimes the world has ever seen, killing millions of its own people, only to be saved by the "evil" Vietnamese communists a few years later.

Iraq, as bad as it was under Hussein, has been thrown into havoc by an American occupation that has lasted for five years. People are being killed and molested every day, in much larger numbers than Mr. Hussein could ever dream of. In addition, thousands of Iraqis (mostly Sunni Muslims) have been forced to leave their country to live in refugee camps in neighboring countries, refugee camps where young Iraqi women, some of them children, are forced into prostitution because that is the only way they can earn money to buy food for their families. No money from the rich uncle in Washington to help those kids.

Oh, and by the way: Saddam Hussein never attacked USA either (he did attack Iran though, with American support, and Kuwait without), and he didn't support terrorism. He simply didn't want to share with anybody.

I could go on, but the list is too long for a web-page this size.

Getting rid of lunatics may sound like a good idea, but it's an even better idea to take a long look at what the consequences will be for those civilians that are going to be "saved" as a result of the action. And as for Mr. Bush, he doesn't need to walk far to find a crazy politician. I'm sure there must be a mirror somewhere in the White House.

I thought this was a Microstock board, not a place for people to spew their hatred of the USA. I find it interesting that the moderator is quick to delete threads of other controversy but leaves this trash unchecked.

I thought this was a Microstock board, not a place for people to spew their hatred of the USA.

Quote from: nruboc on March 16, 2008, 13:46

I thought this was a Microstock board, not a place for people to spew their hatred of the USA.

"spewing hatred" is perfectly understandable considering the situation. It's incredible the suffering of the Iraqi people now as a result of America's moronic foreign policy- just as it was incredible the suffering of the Vietnamese people. Just saying "communism" is a completely moronic justification, by the way jorgeinthewater. I think justifying Iraq by saying "Sadam lunatic" is also pretty lame, when you consider all the vaste array of lunatics that America supports when it's convenient to do so. But those who supported the war dont know much about that do they? To them, Saddam= hitler=bad, black and white, us vs them, all very simple, god is on our side, we ll win because we are good and they are evil. Very, very moronic. A country of overweight armchair imperialists that know absolutely NOTHING about the outside would should stick to their tv and donuts.

Maybe if you had studied a little about the middle east BEFORE invading, you wouldnt have gone in.

I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.

Quote from: leszek on March 17, 2008, 05:35

I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.

Cruelty is not a prerrogative of communism, but of dictatorship.  The dictatorships we had in Latin America for decades - from Argentina to Mexico - were all cruel.  People would simply disappear in the hands of the militaries for the mere suspition of being a "communist".  Everyone who was against the regime was a "communist" for that matter, and that was a reason to justify all types of torture. 

I am not against USA, I'm against any interventionist country, and USA has been the major one lately.

Regards,
Adelaide

Quote from: madelaide on March 17, 2008, 18:29

Quote from: leszek on March 17, 2008, 05:35

I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.

Cruelty is not a prerrogative of communism, but of dictatorship.  The dictatorships we had in Latin America for decades - from Argentina to Mexico - were all cruel.  People would simply disappear in the hands of the militaries for the mere suspition of being a "communist".  Everyone who was against the regime was a "communist" for that matter, and that was a reason to justify all types of torture. 

I am not against USA, I'm against any interventionist country, and USA has been the major one lately.

Regards,
Adelaide

I love how all the anti-interventionist people are always the ones in places where there is no genocide or other mass killings going on. I rather hear their opinion, but they're not safe sitting in their home typing on the internet.

Quote from: madelaide on March 17, 2008, 18:29

I'm against any interventionist country

Go and tell that to the West Europeans and the largest part of Southeast Asia. What a blessing it should have been to live under the Japanese Emperor and under the heirs of Hitler and Stalin. Reality check.

Quote from: madelaide on March 17, 2008, 18:29

I'm against any interventionist country

Go and tell that to the West Europeans and the largest part of Southeast Asia. What a blessing it should have been to live under the Japanese Emperor and under the heirs of Hitler and Stalin. Reality check.

You had KKK doing the same thing , or even worse , not so long ago , so did you also needed an invasion ?


What about Guantanamo ? Rapes ? Torture ? No trials, no lawyers .....


And at the same time , blackmailing newer countries that if they want to join NATO the have to sign that the will not prosecute any American solder  in their country nor to deliver him to  international court in Haag no matter what he does , but to deliver him strait to the US justice.


I know I know , you couldn't care less.

You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.

Quote from: nruboc on March 18, 2008, 23:09

You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.

One thing that pro-war americans seem to be unable to understand- Saddam IS NOT the same as hitler, and Iraq IS NOT the same as darfur. You cant justify one with the other. Its not black vs white, good vs evil, goodies vs badies, freedom vs dictatorship and communism. The world isnt the same as it is on tv. Sometimes one should intervene, sometimes one shouldnt. This is why youre in the mess youre in- you thought that Iraq would be like Japan or Germany! You know, America supports half the world's dictators and brutal regimes- so simplifying things like this is bound to cause problems.
As for guantanemo- the great thing about america is the rule of law and human rights. If youre not prepared to make sacrifices for them, the world has a right to see you as being hypocritical. "keyboard warrior" my ass- if you arent prepared to fight for, die for, and live by your own rules, all the macho crap goes out of the window. Give the terrorists free and serious trials according to the law, without resorting to saddam-style torture. If that makes things harder and some people slip through the net, well tough. People have to die for western ideals, just as they died in the past battles which brought us our freedoms. It's a shame that this generation doesnt live up to the last one, or youd be braver and more prepared to take the risk of living up to your own standards.

You know, all that macho crap is such a joke anyway. By far most americans supported this war. Most of them voted for bush after he started it. Now, most agree that... Whoops! It was a mistake. But most worryingly, most also want the troops to come home as soon as possible. How selfish and cowardly! You accidentally (and the statistics show Americans agree it was an accident) start a war which kills thousands of people and devastates a great culture. Then you arent even prepared to pay for it with your own soldiers, and instead want to run away and forget about it. What a shame this isnt the great WW2 generation that only fought wars that it needed to, and was prepared to sacrifice it's young for it's ideals. The macho retoric was similar. What a shame America doesnt have the stomach to live up to it!

Yeah, war is so lucrative, tell that to the  recession we're in. If the war was for oil then why am I paying an all time high for my gas. If it was for oil as then why haven't we taken Iraq's oil for ourselves, ahhh, maybe it's because Adelaide doesn't have a clue what she's talking about

Quote from: nruboc on March 18, 2008, 23:09

Quote from: Lizard on March 18, 2008, 05:37

You had KKK doing the same thing , or even worse , not so long ago , so did you also needed an invasion ?


What about Guantanamo ? Rapes ? Torture ? No trials, no lawyers .....


And at the same time , blackmailing newer countries that if they want to join NATO the have to sign that the will not prosecute any American solder  in their country nor to deliver him to  international court in Haag no matter what he does , but to deliver him strait to the US justice.


I know I know , you couldn't care less.

You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.  I did get get a chuckle how you seem to equate those women to the terrorists in Guantanimo.  I only wish the US govenrment would release all of Guantanimo in your neighborhood and see if you come back making your same arguments.

As a supposed soldier,  you should know you don't release the enemy back onto the battefield when you're still fighting them, unless you're confident they won't take back to fighting. As I suspected, you're a keyboard warrior.

First the worst thing you could be during the war , is being a child , which I was at that time , and I never said I was a soldier.

But people that watched too much Rambo like you probably know better than me what war is.
By the way , speaking of Rambo , whats wit him these days, did he also changed side , or he is still on Afghanistan side ?

Then , not supporting Geneva Convention rules that you signed , doesn't makes you better than terrorist that you are fighting against.

You can always explain the parents of the children who died from your long range missiles
how that was for their good.

You didn't answer the question , where is biological weapons , main reason of the invasion on Iraq ?

Did your government lied ?

Then , you didn't answer , when KKK was doing what it was doing , did USA needed an foreign army invasion ?

Why invading Tibet or many places with similar situation is never been an option , not for USA not for UN.

Who is holding the  responsibility of the fact that USA trained terrorists like B. Laden in US military camps ?

You are God all mighty to know without a trial  that all people at Guantanamo are terrorists , and  they deserve to be raped and tortured ?

Some people told you that fact , the same that told you a story about biological weapons in Iraq.

And your claims that you are paying full price for your gas. I don't know how much , but I'm ready to bet you in whatever you want that I pay more.





And at least , I would be the same critical if it was a matter of my country , like there are Americans that don't think like you.

There are always people on the other side in every nation ,so called patriots , claiming that they always have right , people who put interests of their country and their personal interests in front of anything ,and their mentality is responsible for almost every war that happened.

They alway have patriotic , religious and other good reasons , and the call people like me traitors , cowards, chickens ,hippies etc .

Sometimes in time those people  outnumber us "hippies" and  s..ts start to happen.

If you were born on the other side , you would probably again put your patriotism in front of the clear facts , and support some other actions.



Peace from flower power ,  warrior .

Lousy answer , KKK had people in high politics , they even had  governors like George Wallace , they had members in police , their crimes were almost legal , and their crimes have not been
processed. Even if they were , you had judges that were also KKK members (cause governor picked them) would set them free. That proves that the power was in their hands.

So you would probably be the first to support international invasion.

Thanks for the answer.


Lets continue , feed a troll again and please answer .Where is that biological weapon , main reason for attacking Iraq ?

Instead to answer I will tell you a story , a sad sad , but very true story but I want mention nations , probably some of us will know from where the story is.

Imagine 2 nations at war , one superior at that time but not capable to win. Here comes international forces and stand between them and they build a protection zone in surrounded city.

The offered shelter to the weaker side which was defending that city ,with condition to give all weapons to UN forces ,and they have accepted that , entered in camp surrounded with wires and stuff and UN were protecting them.

Next thing that happened , that the other side requested from UN they they abandon the safety zone and that they will held the people in camp prisoners and treat them fair like prisoners under Geneva convection.

You know what happened next , UN turned the head , went away from a protected zone and left 10 000 people , mostly older people , women and children and wounded solders  in hand of paramilitary troupes.


In next few hours they were all killed , mostly with knives , so that international forces soldiers can enjoy their drinks in some near restaurant without the unnecessary gunshots.

If there wasn't UN forces , they would mosly be alive cause the help was on the way.

Ten years after , the man that was leading those UN troops was on TV again. This time he was receiving a medal for his brave work in service.



So U ask me what I think , I think that U and people like you that know everything from your big plasma screens should know that in war nothing works , no international solider is willing to risk his life unless is attacked and he is there to get his paycheck and return home safely. There are no heroes , there is no God , if you stand in a way to a bullet it will hit you if a fight begins , soldiers are down or they run watching the sky for some air support and protecting their lives

So when a child thinks that you are protecting him , how would you explain him your prime orders  that you are protecting strategic places like oil pumps , and tanks , not him.
Now imagine you were  at the age of 10 that day , and you are one of about 20-30 people that have escaped from that camp where 10 000 were masacred.
Would you support the anti-interventionism in any country when you didn't support them even when they were defending you.

My opinion , well , if the world was normal I would support anyone who wants to stop any fight or torture anywhere , but if they gets there as a spectators , whit hidden purposes, with a plan to wait that fight is over , take credit for that, and builds his army base that he will use for his future military purposes , and conclude some business contracts , then NO I don't.

Quote from: Lizard on March 19, 2008, 19:37

Instead to answer I will tell you a story , a sad sad , but very true story but I want mention nations , probably some of us will know from where the story is.

Imagine 2 nations at war , one superior at that time but not capable to win. Here comes international forces and stand between them and they build a protection zone in surrounded city.

The offered shelter to the weaker side which was defending that city ,with condition to give all weapons to UN forces ,and they have accepted that , entered in camp surrounded with wires and stuff and UN were protecting them.

Next thing that happened , that the other side requested from UN they they abandon the safety zone and that they will held the people in camp prisoners and treat them fair like prisoners under Geneva convection.

You know what happened next , UN turned the head , went away from a protected zone and left 10 000 people , mostly older people , women and children and wounded solders  in hand of paramilitary troupes.


In next few hours they were all killed , mostly with knives , so that international forces soldiers can enjoy their drinks in some near restaurant without the unnecessary gunshots.

If there wasn't UN forces , they would mosly be alive cause the help was on the way.

Ten years after , the man that was leading those UN troops was on TV again. This time he was receiving a medal for his brave work in service.



So U ask me what I think , I think that U and people like you that know everything from your big plasma screens should know that in war nothing works , no international solider is willing to risk his life unless is attacked and he is there to get his paycheck and return home safely. There are no heroes , there is no God , if you stand in a way to a bullet it will hit you if a fight begins , soldiers are down or they run watching the sky for some air support and protecting their lives

So when a child thinks that you are protecting him , how would you explain him your prime orders  that you are protecting strategic places like oil pumps , and tanks , not him.
Now imagine you were  at the age of 10 that day , and you are one of about 20-30 people that have escaped from that camp where 10 000 were masacred.
Would you support the anti-interventionism in any country when you didn't support them even when they were defending you.

My opinion , well , if the world was normal I would support anyone who wants to stop any fight or torture anywhere , but if they gets there as a spectators , whit hidden purposes, with a plan to wait that fight is over , take credit for that, and builds his army base that he will use for his future military purposes , and conclude some business contracts , then NO I don't.

I'll leave it at this since you are incapable of answering a single question....

<sarcasm>
Next time there is a questionable intervention, I'll petition our government to get YOUR opinion before we make any foreign policy decisions, because I know you will have the US best interest in mind....
</sarcasm>

Why do you keep changing the subject, can't you maintain a train of thought? Our discussion is on anti-interventionism, I've stated above I don't agree with our most recent intervention in Iraq, there are no biological weapson anymore, he used them all up on the Kurds. Now I want to hear you opinion on Darfur, Kuwait, Afghanistan. I answered one of yours, now answer one of mine, otherwise your just trolling.

Lousy answer , KKK had people in high politics , they even had  governors like George Wallace , they had members in police , their crimes were almost legal , and their crimes have not been
processed. Even if they were , you had judges that were also KKK members (cause governor picked them) would set them free. That proves that the power was in their hands.

So you would probably be the first to support international invasion.

Thanks for the answer.


Lets continue , feed a troll again and please answer .Where is that biological weapon , main reason for attacking Iraq ?