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Author Topic: What do you think?  (Read 12054 times)

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digiology

« on: March 12, 2008, 10:42 »
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deleted - too offensive for some - sorry

« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 14:21 by digiology »


vonkara

« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2008, 12:20 »
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I love it. My kind of humour. But the music doesn't return the power of the images. I would think more like a techno music theme or anything that make fly the listeners over the edges of the sequences. Something that push the absurdity to an other level if it's this that the video is trying to deliver.

digiology

« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2008, 12:54 »
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Thanks Vonkara  :) All feedback is welcome and will be very helpfull for my family member (since I am too close to the person to give unbiased comments)

« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2008, 17:45 »
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Very one sided, especially since the reason that our nation (US) has been in an armed conflict since the 1900's it's because it gets attacked first.
WWI innocent people, WWII Japan, Viet Nam against communism, First Gulf war Iraq invaded first a defenseless country, Twin Towers went down first( no images or metion of that) Afghan terrorist breeding ground and Taliban, Sadam lunatic. Once again very biased and please Hittler killed millions lest not compare Bush to that devil. Don't like it.

« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2008, 18:15 »
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Very one sided, especially since the reason that our nation (US) has been in an armed conflict since the 1900's it's because it gets attacked first.


Many people would not agree with that , and facts are on their side.

By the way , I like the artistic side of the  video, leaving the political message on side.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 18:23 by Lizard »

« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2008, 18:19 »
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Double post

digiology

« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2008, 11:03 »
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Tough crowd.  ;D

Yeah it was the artistic side I was looking for an opinion on (not the political message). Looking at it now I realize that may have been difficult for some to look past. It's just a bunch of regurgitated clips most of us have seen before. (I just thought they were cleverly put together.) I apologise if I offended anyone.  8)

« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2008, 12:14 »
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Very one sided, especially since the reason that our nation (US) has been in an armed conflict since the 1900's it's because it gets attacked first.
WWI innocent people, WWII Japan, Viet Nam against communism, First Gulf war Iraq invaded first a defenseless country, Twin Towers went down first( no images or metion of that) Afghan terrorist breeding ground and Taliban, Sadam lunatic. Once again very biased and please Hittler killed millions lest not compare Bush to that devil. Don't like it.

I think you need to refresh your memory: Vietnam has never attacked USA, and probably never will. During that war, USA killed and poisoned (chemical warfare: that's USA) tens of thousands of civilians in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. People in those countries are still stepping on land-mines and undetonated bombs from your heroic war against communism.

The result of that war: Vietnam and Laos became communist regimes anyway (and still are), while Cambodia ended up as one of the most brutal regimes the world has ever seen, killing millions of its own people, only to be saved by the "evil" Vietnamese communists a few years later.

Iraq, as bad as it was under Hussein, has been thrown into havoc by an American occupation that has lasted for five years. People are being killed and molested every day, in much larger numbers than Mr. Hussein could ever dream of. In addition, thousands of Iraqis (mostly Sunni Muslims) have been forced to leave their country to live in refugee camps in neighboring countries, refugee camps where young Iraqi women, some of them children, are forced into prostitution because that is the only way they can earn money to buy food for their families. No money from the rich uncle in Washington to help those kids.

Oh, and by the way: Saddam Hussein never attacked USA either (he did attack Iran though, with American support, and Kuwait without), and he didn't support terrorism. He simply didn't want to share with anybody.

I could go on, but the list is too long for a web-page this size.

Getting rid of lunatics may sound like a good idea, but it's an even better idea to take a long look at what the consequences will be for those civilians that are going to be "saved" as a result of the action. And as for Mr. Bush, he doesn't need to walk far to find a crazy politician. I'm sure there must be a mirror somewhere in the White House.

nruboc

« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2008, 13:46 »
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I thought this was a Microstock board, not a place for people to spew their hatred of the USA. I find it interesting that the moderator is quick to delete threads of other controversy but leaves this trash unchecked.




« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2008, 13:52 »
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Very one sided, especially since the reason that our nation (US) has been in an armed conflict since the 1900's it's because it gets attacked first.
WWI innocent people, WWII Japan, Viet Nam against communism, First Gulf war Iraq invaded first a defenseless country, Twin Towers went down first( no images or metion of that) Afghan terrorist breeding ground and Taliban, Saddam lunatic. Once again very biased and please Hittler killed millions lest not compare Bush to that devil. Don't like it.

I think you need to refresh your memory: Vietnam has never attacked USA, and probably never will. During that war, USA killed and poisoned (chemical warfare: that's USA) tens of thousands of civilians in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. People in those countries are still stepping on land-mines and undetonated bombs from your heroic war against communism.

The result of that war: Vietnam and Laos became communist regimes anyway (and still are), while Cambodia ended up as one of the most brutal regimes the world has ever seen, killing millions of its own people, only to be saved by the "evil" Vietnamese communists a few years later.

Iraq, as bad as it was under Hussein, has been thrown into havoc by an American occupation that has lasted for five years. People are being killed and molested every day, in much larger numbers than Mr. Hussein could ever dream of. In addition, thousands of Iraqis (mostly Sunni Muslims) have been forced to leave their country to live in refugee camps in neighboring countries, refugee camps where young Iraqi women, some of them children, are forced into prostitution because that is the only way they can earn money to buy food for their families. No money from the rich uncle in Washington to help those kids.

Oh, and by the way: Saddam Hussein never attacked USA either (he did attack Iran though, with American support, and Kuwait without), and he didn't support terrorism. He simply didn't want to share with anybody.

I could go on, but the list is too long for a web-page this size.

Getting rid of lunatics may sound like a good idea, but it's an even better idea to take a long look at what the consequences will be for those civilians that are going to be "saved" as a result of the action. And as for Mr. Bush, he doesn't need to walk far to find a crazy politician. I'm sure there must be a mirror somewhere in the White House.

I guess by trying to write a short response to a very complicated issue I made myself sound naive, ignorant and stupid. Of course Vietnam never attacked the US, I'm very aware of that. I should have written a more grammatical correct answer and separated more of the historical events of the 20th century. But the facts are that WWI was not started by the US, WWII was not started by the US, the first Gulf war was not started by the US. The World Trade Center towers were not destroyed by the US eventhough some people would love for that to be the case.
   And yes what we have in Iraq is the result of bad planning and poor understanding of history. I guess the last thing in the Bush administrations thoughts was the age long hatred that the Sunnis and the Shiites have towards each other. Saddam was the only thing keeping those fanatics from slaughtering each other like dogs. But "a lo hecho pecho" that is what is done is done and we have to finish what we started and not run away from the problem.
   I enjoy reading the comments on this site and like adding to them. If my views seem strong sometimes you need to just walk in my shoes sometimes. I'm not trying to offend anyone especially here were we seem to enjoy the fellowship. This is not the SS forum where it seems everyone has a chip on their shoulders.
   We will disagree of course on many things but I will hate for this to become another place were we have to tip toe around so as not to offend each other.
    I still don't like the video and yes it is political. My opinion take it that way, you don't know who I'm so that is the way you should take it.
   Peace to all.
  Jorge

« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2008, 13:58 »
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I don't totally disagree with what Epixx said, as USA foreign intervention has always been guided by economical interests (is anyone going to help Tibetans?). We lived under a cruel military dictatorship in Brazil and the USA was quite happy about it.

I agree however this is not the place to discuss this subject.

Regards,
Adelaide

digiology

« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2008, 14:28 »
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Well I deleted the link as I did not intend to offend anyone. Sorry. Again I was looking for comments on the artistic side of the video (not the political).

BTW - This is the OFF Topic section


« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2008, 14:40 »
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Well I deleted the link as I did not intend to offend anyone. Sorry. Again I was looking for comments on the artistic side of the video (not the political).

BTW - This is the OFF Topic section



I didn't see a need to deleted it you had every right to ask opinions and yes is the off topic area so anything should be OK (I think). I hope it was not me, I was just giving my opinion on something that is controversial.
Like I said before peace to all.

« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2008, 15:21 »
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I thought this was a Microstock board, not a place for people to spew their hatred of the USA. I find it interesting that the moderator is quick to delete threads of other controversy but leaves this trash unchecked.


this is the off topic area so it is allowed to be 'off topic'

I haven't deleted it because people are simply stating their opinions - wethere they are right or wrong is not up to me.  The posts in this thread have been quite cival and debate like - despite the fact that they are strongly appoosed to eachother.  If you look in the boards of the various stock sites you will see many controversial threads - controversy is hardly a thing to be moderated.

Very few threads or posts have been moderated in this forum (largely thanks to the group we have here) and I write a notice when it is done.  Things that are not acceptable are personal attacks or foul language - the few times anything has been moderated it has been for these reasons.

just for interest sake here - In the past 2+ years that this site has been around a total of 65 posts have been moderated out of the  37,868 posts that have been made.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 15:26 by leaf »

« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2008, 15:49 »
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ahmen..Leaf is cool!

« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2008, 18:52 »
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Sorry for my rant (well... not very sorry, but a little bit), but sometimes, a little perspective is useful. Nothing personal. Friends can discuss politics too sometimes, even if they disagree.   :)

digiology

« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2008, 19:16 »
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Well I deleted the link as I did not intend to offend anyone. Sorry. Again I was looking for comments on the artistic side of the video (not the political).

BTW - This is the OFF Topic section



I didn't see a need to deleted it you had every right to ask opinions and yes is the off topic area so anything should be OK (I think). I hope it was not me, I was just giving my opinion on something that is controversial.
Like I said before peace to all.

No worries jorge! I didn't delete it because of you. Mostly because I wasn't getting the feedback I was looking for and it was just invoking a heated political debate amongst members.

Plus I do not want to be perceived as someone that "spews hatred" against anyone.

Peace Love Heart Rainbow Unicorn and all that!

harry

« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2008, 04:53 »
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I thought this was a Microstock board, not a place for people to spew their hatred of the USA.


"spewing hatred" is perfectly understandable considering the situation. It's incredible the suffering of the Iraqi people now as a result of America's moronic foreign policy- just as it was incredible the suffering of the Vietnamese people. Just saying "communism" is a completely moronic justification, by the way jorgeinthewater. I think justifying Iraq by saying "Sadam lunatic" is also pretty lame, when you consider all the vaste array of lunatics that America supports when it's convenient to do so. But those who supported the war dont know much about that do they? To them, Saddam= hitler=bad, black and white, us vs them, all very simple, god is on our side, we ll win because we are good and they are evil. Very, very moronic. A country of overweight armchair imperialists that know absolutely NOTHING about the outside would should stick to their tv and donuts.

« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2008, 05:34 »
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I am against the war in Iraq but I am not anti USA.  They saved the UK in WWII.  People say they entered the war too late but I still think if it wasn't for the USA, I probably wouldn't be here.

I just hope the next president has more sense than George Bush.  Tony Blair was just as bad and should have resigned when no WMD's were found in Iraq.  I am disgusted by the politicians on both sides of the Atlantic.  Hopefully they can't get any worse.  Let's hope they can withdraw from Iraq and go after the real terrorists.

« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2008, 05:35 »
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Well - I can't resist putting my $0.02 in, mostly in regard to the statement
"Just saying "communism" is a completely moronic justification, by the way jorgeinthewater."

Is not.To pass a judgement like the above - one needs to be familiar with the subject. I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.
I guess some familiarity with history and political systems would be of great help (if not limited to information just from newspapers and just recent years or events).

 It would be good if one restricted his comments to things he is familiar with. It is fashionable (bashing USA) - and I must say this is plain uninformed and simpleminded in this case...

And I am not even American - but things like this really piss me off.

OK, enough of ranting, back to photography.

harry

« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2008, 06:36 »
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Is not.To pass a judgement like the above - one needs to be familiar with the subject. I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.
I guess some familiarity with history and political systems would be of great help (if not limited to information just from newspapers and just recent years or events).

 It would be good if one restricted his comments to things he is familiar with. It is fashionable (bashing USA) - and I must say this is plain uninformed and simpleminded in this case...

And I am not even American - but things like this really piss me off.

OK, enough of ranting, back to photography.
Im fully aware that communism is a load of crap. However, that doesnt make it justified to go to war with the country, just as "hes a dictator" isnt a justification. You want me to proove that? Take a look at what happened in Vietnam. You think that "communism" is a good enough excuse to kill hundreds of thousands of people in three countries? Well, considering that it didnt even stop the communism, it clearly isnt, is it?
This war shows an equal lack of understanding, and has resulted in the deaths of thousands of people because Americans made a mistake. Well, that's all well and good- unless youre an iraqi.

« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2008, 06:38 »
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Oh well, I would have liked to see the video.

Yap Vietnam was a blunder, and Gulf II too. Apart from that, Western Europe would have been an economical desert now under a collapsed Communist regime, South-East Asia (and parts of China) would have been a cruel Japanese protectorate under a godlike Emperor and Israel would have had its second holocaust.

Every century had its superpowers. Don't have to remind what Colonial powers Portugal and Spain did with the Indians and the Belgians in Congo. The US only had only one colony: the Philippines. Instead of * it dry like the Spanish the 300 years before, they installed a working democracy, a judicial system, and above all an educational system from kindergarten up to college. Then, after liberating it at the cost of many tens of thousand young lives from the Japanese, they gave the Philippines the choice between full US statehood or independence. The US installed a working democracy in Japan too, AND in Germany.

The difference between the contemporary superpower and the previous ones is the total democracy, free speech, and a constitution that protects the people against corruption from an absolute state and global freewheeling of power-drunk leaders. There is no Great Firewall in the US like in China.
Mistakes can happen, bad ones like Vietnam. But after a while it gets corrected thanks to the power of the voting people. That's why Obama-Clinton will be elected ;-)

« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2008, 06:42 »
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Well, that's all well and good- unless youre an iraqi.
Reality check: the Americans don't kill Iraqis. Some fundamentalists of their own people do it.

harry

« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2008, 06:50 »
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Oh what a cliche! As you well know, they wouldnt be killing each other like this if it wasnt for the war.

« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2008, 07:09 »
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Harry - you need a reality check. Seriously.
As I said before - forming opinions on the basis of leftist propaganda is, well, naive and uninformed.
I am not pro-war. But the world we live in is not ideal, and crap happens.
It is the long-term results and effects that count. The very fact that you can express those opinions of yours is a proof that the system you are bashing actually works (again - it is not ideal, but nothing better has been invented so far).

Regarding "Oh what a cliche! As you well know, they wouldnt be killing each other like this if it wasnt for the war.":
BS, pure and simple. Please learn something about Middle East and its history for the last 1400 years - and maybe you arrive at different conclusion.
You are a target - whether you want it or not - by the very fact of who you are, what you believe in, and what passport you carry.
There are good and bad people everywhere: what is important - is the proportions of each and the influence they carry.

And now - seriously again - back to photography.



« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2008, 07:13 »
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I thought this was a Microstock board, not a place for people to spew their hatred of the USA.


"spewing hatred" is perfectly understandable considering the situation. It's incredible the suffering of the Iraqi people now as a result of America's moronic foreign policy- just as it was incredible the suffering of the Vietnamese people. Just saying "communism" is a completely moronic justification, by the way jorgeinthewater. I think justifying Iraq by saying "Sadam lunatic" is also pretty lame, when you consider all the vaste array of lunatics that America supports when it's convenient to do so. But those who supported the war dont know much about that do they? To them, Saddam= hitler=bad, black and white, us vs them, all very simple, god is on our side, we ll win because we are good and they are evil. Very, very moronic. A country of overweight armchair imperialists that know absolutely NOTHING about the outside would should stick to their tv and donuts.

So much hate for a country that most of the time is just trying to help others. Every time there is a major natural disaster there goes the US with aid. Every time someone is beating up their next door neighbor there goes the US placing its finest young men in harms way.
The most moronic thing about all of your statements is not the words but the spirit of hatred that is making you write them.
For you info you uneducated person the US is made of 99% immigrants that came from all over the world looking for a better life, not trying to join an empire that wants to conquer the world. I'm one of them and I came from a communist dictatorship. But to go back and forth with you is truly not worth it because there is just too much hate in your heart for others.
PS don't have a TV hadn't had one for 13 years and the only donuts I like are Thai donuts with the condensed milk on top.
Peace to all except to you Harry you need love in your heart for others first.

harry

« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2008, 07:22 »
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Harry - you need a reality check. Seriously.
As I said before - forming opinions on the basis of leftist propaganda is, well, naive and uninformed.
I am not pro-war. But the world we live in is not ideal, and crap happens.
It is the long-term results and effects that count. The very fact that you can express those opinions of yours is a proof that the system you are bashing actually works (again - it is not ideal, but nothing better has been invented so far).

Regarding "Oh what a cliche! As you well know, they wouldnt be killing each other like this if it wasnt for the war.":
BS, pure and simple. Please learn something about Middle East and its history for the last 1400 years - and maybe you arrive at different conclusion.
You are a target - whether you want it or not - by the very fact of who you are, what you believe in, and what passport you carry.
There are good and bad people everywhere: what is important - is the proportions of each and the influence they carry.

And now - seriously again - back to photography.
There is no "leftist propaganda" here! Im actually rather right wing. If you knew the first thing about middle eastern history or culture, you wouldnt have backed the war in the first place. Let's take a look at what happened shall we?
An islamist (previously funded by America) bombs the twin towers. America rightly invades Afghanistan to capture him and remove that source of extremism. But that isnt enough. So what do they do? They bomb the most secular country in the middle east. Not only is it the most secular (or at least one of the most secular) but it's also the most fragile, and the one most likely to collapse into small pieces, and also the one most likely to become an Iranian proxy. Oh very smart.
They also make a mess ("crap happens" you say- nicely put) and because of the power vacuum, extremists become very powerful. You think that they wouldnt be killing each other like this if Americans hadnt made such a mess? How did you figure that out?! Maybe if you had studied a little about the middle east BEFORE invading, you wouldnt have gone in.

« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2008, 07:44 »
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Maybe if you had studied a little about the middle east BEFORE invading, you wouldnt have gone in.
Gulf II was a bad mistake. The WMDs were a hoax, like the Gulf of Tonkin. Cheney and his gang wanted the oil. George WB shouldn't have been re-elected after the WMD lies. He was. It will be corrected 4 years later, that's the good news.

« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2008, 07:49 »
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Not being American - the only thing I can blame America for is being at times naive, self-centered and heavy-handed. Not the biggest of sins, from my perspective.
At least there is a Bill of Rights and a Constitution, which can't be said about many countries - and that includes some you are so valiantly defending. Sure - it does not always work - but it is up to the people to make this happen. Far from being naive regarding the democracy - it works for most people.
Well, I know which side I am on, at any case. And I have no ilusions about what works and what doesn't. I had the opportunity to spend some time in US, Canada, Western Europe, Australia - and in some other places. For me - the conclusions are obvious and self-evident.
You - on the other hand, still need to learn a thing or two about the world you live in. Or at least you give that impression.

Now - for me at least - the discussion is over. It was not my intension to get dragged into a political debate. I am mostly interested in photography anyway.

« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2008, 13:50 »
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Here's something for us naives:

- At the moment, 2.2 million Iraqis live in refugee camps within Iraq, while another 2 million live as refugees in Jordan and Syria. They get little or no economic support from USA or others. (These numbers are approaching 20% of the total population of Iraq.)

- Hundreds of civilians are killed every month, by extremists, Iraqi military and police, by the Americans and by mercenaries working for the Americans.

- As a result of the increased influence by Muslim extremists in the country, many of them loyal to Iran and their religious system, a sinking number of women are working or taking higher education. Women have lost most of the rights that they had under Saddam Hussein. (Wow Mr. Bush, how did you manage to do that? Wasn't this what you were supposed to fight against?)

- 70% of the population do not have access to clean drinking water.

- 43% of the population have to live on less than $1 per day. This is one of the oil-richest countries in the world.

And it's getting worse day by day.

Somebody further up this thread called the Americans naive. I'm sorry to say, that's way off the target. Stupidity, yes, greed, yes, but Mr. Bush and his comrades are not naive. They went into this with open eyes, they lied knowingly to the American people and to the United Nations, and they did not care how many lives, Iraqi or American, would be lost as a result of their actions.

Those who defend those actions on the other hand, can undoubtedly label themselves naive, if they so wish. Good luck to you all.

vonkara

« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2008, 15:11 »
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Well say everybody, but let them live in their own country like they want. I think that they all know what most of the population think about them, if not they will know it a day for sure. What we can do it's making our own countries better while some Americans try to resolve the problems that we can't.

« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2008, 18:29 »
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I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.

Cruelty is not a prerrogative of communism, but of dictatorship.  The dictatorships we had in Latin America for decades - from Argentina to Mexico - were all cruel.  People would simply disappear in the hands of the militaries for the mere suspition of being a "communist".  Everyone who was against the regime was a "communist" for that matter, and that was a reason to justify all types of torture. 

I am not against USA, I'm against any interventionist country, and USA has been the major one lately.

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2008, 18:38 »
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Well say everybody, but let them live in their own country like they want. I think that they all know what most of the population think about them, if not they will know it a day for sure. ...
I used to live in the USA - now I live in Canada, and am glad I moved. Although it's not a perfect place by any measure, I'm much happier to be here than I was to be there.

« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2008, 18:38 »
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"Cruelty is not a prerrogative of communism, but of dictatorship."

But of course. The difference is the scale of events. About 60 million people died in Soviet Union alone during the communist experiment. Maybe this will put things in perspective...

nruboc

« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2008, 18:48 »
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Well say everybody, but let them live in their own country like they want. I think that they all know what most of the population think about them, if not they will know it a day for sure. ...
I used to live in the USA - now I live in Canada, and am glad I moved. Although it's not a perfect place by any measure, I'm much happier to be here than I was to be there.


Good for you, I couldn't care less.

nruboc

« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2008, 19:12 »
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I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.

Cruelty is not a prerrogative of communism, but of dictatorship.  The dictatorships we had in Latin America for decades - from Argentina to Mexico - were all cruel.  People would simply disappear in the hands of the militaries for the mere suspition of being a "communist".  Everyone who was against the regime was a "communist" for that matter, and that was a reason to justify all types of torture. 

I am not against USA, I'm against any interventionist country, and USA has been the major one lately.

Regards,
Adelaide

I love how all the anti-interventionist people are always the ones in places where there is no genocide or other mass killings going on. I rather hear their opinion, but they're not safe sitting in their home typing on the internet.

« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2008, 19:26 »
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Well , the main reason for attacking Iraq was , not Sadam and his government but  their possession of biological weapons , so they were  huge treat  for the world.

Just wondering where are those "weapons" now , and why nobody speaks of that anymore ?


Bin Laden , the man who was terrorist #1 in the world was educated and trained at St. Andrews , by the US Army , with full support of someones dad.
So If that someone wants to destroy a terrorist training camp isn't the first thing is to do to put a chain in his backyard.


Peace


« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2008, 19:35 »
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I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.

Cruelty is not a prerrogative of communism, but of dictatorship.  The dictatorships we had in Latin America for decades - from Argentina to Mexico - were all cruel.  People would simply disappear in the hands of the militaries for the mere suspition of being a "communist".  Everyone who was against the regime was a "communist" for that matter, and that was a reason to justify all types of torture. 

I am not against USA, I'm against any interventionist country, and USA has been the major one lately.

Regards,
Adelaide

I love how all the anti-interventionist people are always the ones in places where there is no genocide or other mass killings going on. I rather hear their opinion, but they're not safe sitting in their home typing on the internet.


Well I was in war , the biggest genocides in Europe after WW2 were happening in my country ,we were fighting against dictators army and regime , we had US officially on our side , and I lived things you wont ever see on your TV.


So I guess I may speak as anti-interventionist  ?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 19:36 by Lizard »

« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2008, 19:48 »
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I'm against any interventionist country

Go and tell that to the West Europeans and the largest part of Southeast Asia. What a blessing it should have been to live under the Japanese Emperor and under the heirs of Hitler and Stalin. Reality check.

« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2008, 20:32 »
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I'm against any interventionist country

Go and tell that to the West Europeans and the largest part of Southeast Asia. What a blessing it should have been to live under the Japanese Emperor and under the heirs of Hitler and Stalin. Reality check.

Japanese Emperor, Hitler and Stalin were long time ago. Now google is more powerful than
Japanese Emperor ever was, yourtube will make naked  any new Hitler or Stalin in just a week.
human stupidity is here to stay though, so wars will spark here and there, but they will not be
as glorious as before. And finally, I trust Adelaide much more than Bush  :)

nruboc

« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2008, 21:55 »
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I am - an believe me, while USA and the president do a lot of things which are simple, crude, or outright stupid at times - it does not come even close to the true evil of communism.

Cruelty is not a prerrogative of communism, but of dictatorship.  The dictatorships we had in Latin America for decades - from Argentina to Mexico - were all cruel.  People would simply disappear in the hands of the militaries for the mere suspition of being a "communist".  Everyone who was against the regime was a "communist" for that matter, and that was a reason to justify all types of torture. 

I am not against USA, I'm against any interventionist country, and USA has been the major one lately.

Regards,
Adelaide

I love how all the anti-interventionist people are always the ones in places where there is no genocide or other mass killings going on. I rather hear their opinion, but they're not safe sitting in their home typing on the internet.


Well I was in war , the biggest genocides in Europe after WW2 were happening in my country ,we were fighting against dictators army and regime , we had US officially on our side , and I lived things you wont ever see on your TV.


So I guess I may speak as anti-interventionist  ?

I could careless who speaks as an anti-interventionist, it's your freedom of speech to say whatever you please. But your words are wasted on me, rather I would like to hear how you would explain your anti-interventionist views to the women who are being raped, tortured, and murdered in Darfur. Go ahead make your argument to them. Your words ring hallow here keyboard warrior.

« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2008, 05:37 »
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You had KKK doing the same thing , or even worse , not so long ago , so did you also needed an invasion ?


What about Guantanamo ? Rapes ? Torture ? No trials, no lawyers .....


And at the same time , blackmailing newer countries that if they want to join NATO the have to sign that the will not prosecute any American solder  in their country nor to deliver him to  international court in Haag no matter what he does , but to deliver him strait to the US justice.


I know I know , you couldn't care less.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 05:51 by Lizard »

« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2008, 10:52 »
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... Your words ring hallow here keyboard warrior.

I know it's a typo, but I got a big kick out of hallow.

« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2008, 19:09 »
0
I'm against any interventionist country

Go and tell that to the West Europeans and the largest part of Southeast Asia. What a blessing it should have been to live under the Japanese Emperor and under the heirs of Hitler and Stalin. Reality check.

Hmm.  I believe Germany invaded Western and Eastern Europe countries, as Japan invaded Southeast Asia.  So the USA "helping" Europe in WWII is not the same thing as invading Iraq.  And quite frankly, if Hitler had set his foot in Poland only, or maybe on a couple of other countries, nobody would have moved a finger.

And in many occasions USA interfered with other countries' internal matters just for their own benefit/interests (like here in Brazil).  So did UK and other colonialist countries in their former colonies.  That might be acceptable in civil war, such as the Darfur case cited here, for humanitarian causes. 

But I think nobody is innocent here to believe USA and its allies invaded Iraq for humanitarian causes, to free its people from Saddam (hey, wasn't he a good guy 10 years before?).  This war was for economical (oil, war industry) and political (presence in Middle East) reasons, using as an excuse the emotions of the USA population after the infamous terrorist attacks.  While people were still mourning their deads, while the population (and the world) was still shocked with such actions, economic forces began taking advantage of this.  War is a very lucrative business to some. 

Regards,
Adelaide
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 19:11 by madelaide »

« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2008, 20:06 »
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Well, Madelaide, when reverting to history - let's put things in real context.

"And quite frankly, if Hitler had set his foot in Poland only, or maybe on a couple of other countries, nobody would have moved a finger."

Correct - nobody did. Neither France nor UK, with whom Poland had a military pact at that time. Well, their turn came next - and quickly at that.
Nobody did a thing when Czech Republic was attacked, or Austria...which only shows you the value of military pacts :)

And then - in Tehran (1943), Yalta and Potsdam (1945) - these countries (and some more) have been promptly sold to Stalin.

And...and...

nruboc

« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2008, 23:09 »
0
You had KKK doing the same thing , or even worse , not so long ago , so did you also needed an invasion ?


What about Guantanamo ? Rapes ? Torture ? No trials, no lawyers .....


And at the same time , blackmailing newer countries that if they want to join NATO the have to sign that the will not prosecute any American solder  in their country nor to deliver him to  international court in Haag no matter what he does , but to deliver him strait to the US justice.


I know I know , you couldn't care less.


You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.  I did get get a chuckle how you seem to equate those women to the terrorists in Guantanimo.  I only wish the US govenrment would release all of Guantanimo in your neighborhood and see if you come back making your same arguments.

As a supposed soldier,  you should know you don't release the enemy back onto the battefield when you're still fighting them, unless you're confident they won't take back to fighting. As I suspected, you're a keyboard warrior.


nruboc

« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2008, 23:24 »
0
I'm against any interventionist country

Go and tell that to the West Europeans and the largest part of Southeast Asia. What a blessing it should have been to live under the Japanese Emperor and under the heirs of Hitler and Stalin. Reality check.

Hmm.  I believe Germany invaded Western and Eastern Europe countries, as Japan invaded Southeast Asia.  So the USA "helping" Europe in WWII is not the same thing as invading Iraq.  And quite frankly, if Hitler had set his foot in Poland only, or maybe on a couple of other countries, nobody would have moved a finger.

And in many occasions USA interfered with other countries' internal matters just for their own benefit/interests (like here in Brazil).  So did UK and other colonialist countries in their former colonies.  That might be acceptable in civil war, such as the Darfur case cited here, for humanitarian causes. 

But I think nobody is innocent here to believe USA and its allies invaded Iraq for humanitarian causes, to free its people from Saddam (hey, wasn't he a good guy 10 years before?).  This war was for economical (oil, war industry) and political (presence in Middle East) reasons, using as an excuse the emotions of the USA population after the infamous terrorist attacks.  While people were still mourning their deads, while the population (and the world) was still shocked with such actions, economic forces began taking advantage of this.  War is a very lucrative business to some. 

Regards,
Adelaide

Yeah, war is so lucrative, tell that to the * recession we're in. If the war was for oil then why am I paying an all time high for my gas. If it was for oil as then why haven't we taken Iraq's oil for ourselves, ahhh, maybe it's because Adelaide doesn't have a clue what she's talking about

harry

« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2008, 23:48 »
0

You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.
One thing that pro-war americans seem to be unable to understand- Saddam IS NOT the same as hitler, and Iraq IS NOT the same as darfur. You cant justify one with the other. Its not black vs white, good vs evil, goodies vs badies, freedom vs dictatorship and communism. The world isnt the same as it is on tv. Sometimes one should intervene, sometimes one shouldnt. This is why youre in the mess youre in- you thought that Iraq would be like Japan or Germany! You know, America supports half the world's dictators and brutal regimes- so simplifying things like this is bound to cause problems.
As for guantanemo- the great thing about america is the rule of law and human rights. If youre not prepared to make sacrifices for them, the world has a right to see you as being hypocritical. "keyboard warrior" my ass- if you arent prepared to fight for, die for, and live by your own rules, all the macho crap goes out of the window. Give the terrorists free and serious trials according to the law, without resorting to saddam-style torture. If that makes things harder and some people slip through the net, well tough. People have to die for western ideals, just as they died in the past battles which brought us our freedoms. It's a shame that this generation doesnt live up to the last one, or youd be braver and more prepared to take the risk of living up to your own standards.

You know, all that macho crap is such a joke anyway. By far most americans supported this war. Most of them voted for bush after he started it. Now, most agree that... Whoops! It was a mistake. But most worryingly, most also want the troops to come home as soon as possible. How selfish and cowardly! You accidentally (and the statistics show Americans agree it was an accident) start a war which kills thousands of people and devastates a great culture. Then you arent even prepared to pay for it with your own soldiers, and instead want to run away and forget about it. What a shame this isnt the great WW2 generation that only fought wars that it needed to, and was prepared to sacrifice it's young for it's ideals. The macho retoric was similar. What a shame America doesnt have the stomach to live up to it!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 00:00 by harry »

« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2008, 00:14 »
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wow dude...wonder what country you live in....you seem very tweaked. Love this country (USA), war was a mistake, but you really tilt toward some hard words, I'm sure you live in the "perfect" country with a bliss govt....chill just a bit please....

thx Leaf for letting this roll...

How selfish and cowardly! You accidentally (and the statistics show Americans agree it was an accident) start a war which kills thousands of people and devastates a great culture. Then you arent even prepared to pay for it with your own soldiers, and instead want to run away and forget about it. What a shame this isnt the great WW2 generation that only fought wars that it needed to, and was prepared to sacrifice it's young for it's ideals. The macho retoric was similar. What a shame America doesnt have the stomach to live up to it!

FYI, none of that statement is true (regarding myself) in any measure...please do not speak for Americans, unless you are one...and don't assume you speak for ALL of us even if you are.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 00:25 by anonymous »

harry

« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2008, 00:36 »
0
Im not talking about "all americans"- Im talking about the ones that supported this war, ie "most americans", and Id add those who supported the war in any other country too.

nruboc

« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2008, 00:39 »
0

You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.
One thing that pro-war americans seem to be unable to understand- Saddam IS NOT the same as hitler, and Iraq IS NOT the same as darfur. You cant justify one with the other. Its not black vs white, good vs evil, goodies vs badies, freedom vs dictatorship and communism. The world isnt the same as it is on tv. Sometimes one should intervene, sometimes one shouldnt. This is why youre in the mess youre in- you thought that Iraq would be like Japan or Germany! You know, America supports half the world's dictators and brutal regimes- so simplifying things like this is bound to cause problems.
As for guantanemo- the great thing about america is the rule of law and human rights. If youre not prepared to make sacrifices for them, the world has a right to see you as being hypocritical. "keyboard warrior" my ass- if you arent prepared to fight for, die for, and live by your own rules, all the macho crap goes out of the window. Give the terrorists free and serious trials according to the law, without resorting to saddam-style torture. If that makes things harder and some people slip through the net, well tough. People have to die for western ideals, just as they died in the past battles which brought us our freedoms. It's a shame that this generation doesnt live up to the last one, or youd be braver and more prepared to take the risk of living up to your own standards.

You know, all that macho crap is such a joke anyway. By far most americans supported this war. Most of them voted for bush after he started it. Now, most agree that... Whoops! It was a mistake. But most worryingly, most also want the troops to come home as soon as possible. How selfish and cowardly! You accidentally (and the statistics show Americans agree it was an accident) start a war which kills thousands of people and devastates a great culture. Then you arent even prepared to pay for it with your own soldiers, and instead want to run away and forget about it. What a shame this isnt the great WW2 generation that only fought wars that it needed to, and was prepared to sacrifice it's young for it's ideals. The macho retoric was similar. What a shame America doesnt have the stomach to live up to it!


Oh look at you mr. manly man, stereotyping all Americans like all your other anti-US friends. My arguments was against those who say all interventionism is bad, as Miss Adelaide so eloquently wrote. I never compared Darfur to Iraq, why don't you show me where I did mr gutless wonder. You just inferred my opinion on the Iraq war as the stereotypical trash you wrote above. Maybe it's because you don't have the balls to stick up for what you believe in, or die for a cause you believe just, you would probably let the woman in Darfur be raped right in front of you.

nruboc

« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2008, 00:40 »
0

You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.
One thing that pro-war americans seem to be unable to understand- Saddam IS NOT the same as hitler, and Iraq IS NOT the same as darfur. You cant justify one with the other. Its not black vs white, good vs evil, goodies vs badies, freedom vs dictatorship and communism. The world isnt the same as it is on tv. Sometimes one should intervene, sometimes one shouldnt. This is why youre in the mess youre in- you thought that Iraq would be like Japan or Germany! You know, America supports half the world's dictators and brutal regimes- so simplifying things like this is bound to cause problems.
As for guantanemo- the great thing about america is the rule of law and human rights. If youre not prepared to make sacrifices for them, the world has a right to see you as being hypocritical. "keyboard warrior" my ass- if you arent prepared to fight for, die for, and live by your own rules, all the macho crap goes out of the window. Give the terrorists free and serious trials according to the law, without resorting to saddam-style torture. If that makes things harder and some people slip through the net, well tough. People have to die for western ideals, just as they died in the past battles which brought us our freedoms. It's a shame that this generation doesnt live up to the last one, or youd be braver and more prepared to take the risk of living up to your own standards.

You know, all that macho crap is such a joke anyway. By far most americans supported this war. Most of them voted for bush after he started it. Now, most agree that... Whoops! It was a mistake. But most worryingly, most also want the troops to come home as soon as possible. How selfish and cowardly! You accidentally (and the statistics show Americans agree it was an accident) start a war which kills thousands of people and devastates a great culture. Then you arent even prepared to pay for it with your own soldiers, and instead want to run away and forget about it. What a shame this isnt the great WW2 generation that only fought wars that it needed to, and was prepared to sacrifice it's young for it's ideals. The macho retoric was similar. What a shame America doesnt have the stomach to live up to it!

Oh look at you mr. manly man, stereotyping all Americans like all your other anti-US friends. My arguments was against those who say all interventionism is bad, as Miss Adelaide so eloquently wrote. I never compared Darfur to Iraq, why don't you show me where I did mr gutless wonder. You just inferred my opinion on the Iraq war as the stereotypical trash you wrote above. Maybe it's because you don't have the balls to stick up for what you believe in, or die for a cause you believe just, you would probably let the woman in Darfur be raped right in front of you.

harry

« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2008, 00:55 »
0
Oh look at you mr. manly man, stereotyping all Americans like all your other anti-US friends. My arguments was against those who say all interventionism is bad, as Miss Adelaide so eloquently wrote. I never compared Darfur to Iraq, why don't you show me where I did mr gutless wonder. You just inferred my opinion on the Iraq war as the stereotypical trash you wrote above. Maybe it's because you don't have the balls to stick up for what you believe in, or die for a cause you believe just, you would probably let the woman in Darfur be raped right in front of you.


I never said YOU did compare Darfur to Iraq. I said that "One thing that pro-war americans seem to be unable to understand- Saddam IS NOT the same as hitler, and Iraq IS NOT the same as darfur. You (meaning those who do) cant justify one with the other. Its not black vs white, good vs evil, goodies vs badies, freedom vs dictatorship and communism. The world isnt the same as it is on tv. Sometimes one should intervene, sometimes one shouldnt." What Im saying is: those who are pro this war often think that one is equal to the other, which isnt the case.
You know, I doubt that the WW2 generation would have done something as dumb as invading Iraq like this. I also doubt they would have actued in the cowardly way that this generation has in endorsing guantanemo and abu graib by voting to give bush a second term. They wouldnt have given up on their ideals (the rule of law, justice, stopping torture) just to save a few lives.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 00:59 by harry »

« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2008, 01:35 »
0
"Give the terrorists free and serious trials according to the law, without resorting to saddam-style torture. If that makes things harder and some people slip through the net, well tough. People have to die for western ideals, just as they died in the past battles which brought us our freedoms."

Agree with the first. Regarding the "People have to die for western ideals..." - if you mean our people - then not necessarily. Rather make the other *insult removed* die for it.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 01:39 by leszek »

« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2008, 02:14 »
0
Agree with the first. Regarding the "People have to die for western ideals..." - if you mean our people - then not necessarily. Rather make the other *insult removed* die for it.

The other *insult removed*? Have I misunderstood something here? I thought we were discussing people....

« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2008, 11:32 »
0
Yeah, war is so lucrative, tell that to the  recession we're in. If the war was for oil then why am I paying an all time high for my gas. If it was for oil as then why haven't we taken Iraq's oil for ourselves, ahhh, maybe it's because Adelaide doesn't have a clue what she's talking about

Of course you're right, nruboc, and I'm totally wrong.  Nobody in the USA is making money out of the war in Iraq, and USA citizens are suffering for being the saviour of the world, because USA won't rest until the whole world is a democracy.  I guess I have to thank you for doing that for me.

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2008, 13:46 »
0
You had KKK doing the same thing , or even worse , not so long ago , so did you also needed an invasion ?


What about Guantanamo ? Rapes ? Torture ? No trials, no lawyers .....


And at the same time , blackmailing newer countries that if they want to join NATO the have to sign that the will not prosecute any American solder  in their country nor to deliver him to  international court in Haag no matter what he does , but to deliver him strait to the US justice.


I know I know , you couldn't care less.


You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.  I did get get a chuckle how you seem to equate those women to the terrorists in Guantanimo.  I only wish the US govenrment would release all of Guantanimo in your neighborhood and see if you come back making your same arguments.

As a supposed soldier,  you should know you don't release the enemy back onto the battefield when you're still fighting them, unless you're confident they won't take back to fighting. As I suspected, you're a keyboard warrior.





First the worst thing you could be during the war , is being a child , which I was at that time , and I never said I was a soldier.

But people that watched too much Rambo like you probably know better than me what war is.
By the way , speaking of Rambo , whats wit him these days, did he also changed side , or he is still on Afghanistan side ?

Then , not supporting Geneva Convention rules that you signed , doesn't makes you better than terrorist that you are fighting against.

You can always explain the parents of the children who died from your long range missiles
how that was for their good.

You didn't answer the question , where is biological weapons , main reason of the invasion on Iraq ?

Did your government lied ?

Then , you didn't answer , when KKK was doing what it was doing , did USA needed an foreign army invasion ?

Why invading Tibet or many places with similar situation is never been an option , not for USA not for UN.

Who is holding the  responsibility of the fact that USA trained terrorists like B. Laden in US military camps ?

You are God all mighty to know without a trial  that all people at Guantanamo are terrorists , and  they deserve to be raped and tortured ?

Some people told you that fact , the same that told you a story about biological weapons in Iraq.

And your claims that you are paying full price for your gas. I don't know how much , but I'm ready to bet you in whatever you want that I pay more.





And at least , I would be the same critical if it was a matter of my country , like there are Americans that don't think like you.

There are always people on the other side in every nation ,so called patriots , claiming that they always have right , people who put interests of their country and their personal interests in front of anything ,and their mentality is responsible for almost every war that happened.

They alway have patriotic , religious and other good reasons , and the call people like me traitors , cowards, chickens ,hippies etc .

Sometimes in time those people  outnumber us "hippies" and  s..ts start to happen.

If you were born on the other side , you would probably again put your patriotism in front of the clear facts , and support some other actions.



Peace from flower power ,  warrior .












« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 13:53 by Lizard »

digiology

« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2008, 14:48 »
0
Oh boy. I've created a monster.

For anyone that has managed to read this far this whole thing got started after I asked for "artistic feedback" on a music video made by a family member of mine. I won't post the link again but if you want to search for it on Youtube it's called American Snapshot (You Own It).

Yes it's political. It's anti-bush. It's anti-war. But its hardly anti-american so please don't confuse it as such.

nruboc

« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2008, 15:11 »
0
Yeah, war is so lucrative, tell that to the  recession we're in. If the war was for oil then why am I paying an all time high for my gas. If it was for oil as then why haven't we taken Iraq's oil for ourselves, ahhh, maybe it's because Adelaide doesn't have a clue what she's talking about

Of course you're right, nruboc, and I'm totally wrong.  Nobody in the USA is making money out of the war in Iraq, and USA citizens are suffering for being the saviour of the world, because USA won't rest until the whole world is a democracy.  I guess I have to thank you for doing that for me.

Regards,
Adelaide

Where did I say "nobody was making money off the war", if you're going to respond to my posts please at least quote me correctly. I guarantee you the money we have spent on the war outweighs the money *some* people are making (security, contractors, ect) by a factor of at least 1000:1. This isn't the typical war time economy where we're building new ships/planes/subs/tanks/etc.. for use in Iraq you know.

So your argument about going to war for money and oil doesn't make a lick of sense, if we're losing money and not taking their oil for ourselves.

And for the record I was against the Iraq war, it didn't pass my internal test, which is, would I be willing to die for this cause? If not, then I am against it. Was I for going into Afghanistan? YES! Was I for going into Kuwait the first Iraq war? YES! Would I be for intervention in Darfur? YES!

Let's hear your anti-interventionist stance on Darfur/Kuwait/Afghanistan Miss "don't intervene because it doesn't effect me".












nruboc

« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2008, 15:30 »
0
You had KKK doing the same thing , or even worse , not so long ago , so did you also needed an invasion ?


What about Guantanamo ? Rapes ? Torture ? No trials, no lawyers .....


And at the same time , blackmailing newer countries that if they want to join NATO the have to sign that the will not prosecute any American solder  in their country nor to deliver him to  international court in Haag no matter what he does , but to deliver him strait to the US justice.


I know I know , you couldn't care less.


You still haven't made your argument for anti-interventionism to the women of Darfur... c'mon we know you can do it..... Yeah, as long as it's not YOUR children, wife getting raped and murdered your ok with it.  I did get get a chuckle how you seem to equate those women to the terrorists in Guantanimo.  I only wish the US govenrment would release all of Guantanimo in your neighborhood and see if you come back making your same arguments.

As a supposed soldier,  you should know you don't release the enemy back onto the battefield when you're still fighting them, unless you're confident they won't take back to fighting. As I suspected, you're a keyboard warrior.





First the worst thing you could be during the war , is being a child , which I was at that time , and I never said I was a soldier.

But people that watched too much Rambo like you probably know better than me what war is.
By the way , speaking of Rambo , whats wit him these days, did he also changed side , or he is still on Afghanistan side ?

Then , not supporting Geneva Convention rules that you signed , doesn't makes you better than terrorist that you are fighting against.

You can always explain the parents of the children who died from your long range missiles
how that was for their good.

You didn't answer the question , where is biological weapons , main reason of the invasion on Iraq ?

Did your government lied ?

Then , you didn't answer , when KKK was doing what it was doing , did USA needed an foreign army invasion ?

Why invading Tibet or many places with similar situation is never been an option , not for USA not for UN.

Who is holding the  responsibility of the fact that USA trained terrorists like B. Laden in US military camps ?

You are God all mighty to know without a trial  that all people at Guantanamo are terrorists , and  they deserve to be raped and tortured ?

Some people told you that fact , the same that told you a story about biological weapons in Iraq.

And your claims that you are paying full price for your gas. I don't know how much , but I'm ready to bet you in whatever you want that I pay more.





And at least , I would be the same critical if it was a matter of my country , like there are Americans that don't think like you.

There are always people on the other side in every nation ,so called patriots , claiming that they always have right , people who put interests of their country and their personal interests in front of anything ,and their mentality is responsible for almost every war that happened.

They alway have patriotic , religious and other good reasons , and the call people like me traitors , cowards, chickens ,hippies etc .

Sometimes in time those people  outnumber us "hippies" and  s..ts start to happen.

If you were born on the other side , you would probably again put your patriotism in front of the clear facts , and support some other actions.



Peace from flower power ,  warrior .





The KKK? How naive is that? I know I'm feeding the trolls here but to follow along with your hypothetical... if the KKK was the government and the military and they were attacking the citizenry and/or our neighboring countries, then you're god darn right I would want some help. But I wouldn't hold my breath to get it.




« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2008, 16:42 »
0
Lousy answer , KKK had people in high politics , they even had  governors like George Wallace , they had members in police , their crimes were almost legal , and their crimes have not been
processed. Even if they were , you had judges that were also KKK members (cause governor picked them) would set them free. That proves that the power was in their hands.

So you would probably be the first to support international invasion.

Thanks for the answer.


Lets continue , feed a troll again and please answer .Where is that biological weapon , main reason for attacking Iraq ?








« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 16:45 by Lizard »

nruboc

« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2008, 18:00 »
0
Lousy answer , KKK had people in high politics , they even had  governors like George Wallace , they had members in police , their crimes were almost legal , and their crimes have not been
processed. Even if they were , you had judges that were also KKK members (cause governor picked them) would set them free. That proves that the power was in their hands.

So you would probably be the first to support international invasion.

Thanks for the answer.


Lets continue , feed a troll again and please answer .Where is that biological weapon , main reason for attacking Iraq ?



Why do you keep changing the subject, can't you maintain a train of thought? Our discussion is on anti-interventionism, I've stated above I don't agree with our most recent intervention in Iraq, there are no biological weapson anymore, he used them all up on the Kurds. Now I want to hear you opinion on Darfur, Kuwait, Afghanistan. I answered one of yours, now answer one of mine, otherwise your just trolling.




« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2008, 19:37 »
0
Instead to answer I will tell you a story , a sad sad , but very true story but I want mention nations , probably some of us will know from where the story is.

Imagine 2 nations at war , one superior at that time but not capable to win. Here comes international forces and stand between them and they build a protection zone in surrounded city.

The offered shelter to the weaker side which was defending that city ,with condition to give all weapons to UN forces ,and they have accepted that , entered in camp surrounded with wires and stuff and UN were protecting them.

Next thing that happened , that the other side requested from UN they they abandon the safety zone and that they will held the people in camp prisoners and treat them fair like prisoners under Geneva convection.

You know what happened next , UN turned the head , went away from a protected zone and left 10 000 people , mostly older people , women and children and wounded solders  in hand of paramilitary troupes.


In next few hours they were all killed , mostly with knives , so that international forces soldiers can enjoy their drinks in some near restaurant without the unnecessary gunshots.

If there wasn't UN forces , they would mosly be alive cause the help was on the way.

Ten years after , the man that was leading those UN troops was on TV again. This time he was receiving a medal for his brave work in service.



So U ask me what I think , I think that U and people like you that know everything from your big plasma screens should know that in war nothing works , no international solider is willing to risk his life unless is attacked and he is there to get his paycheck and return home safely. There are no heroes , there is no God , if you stand in a way to a bullet it will hit you if a fight begins , soldiers are down or they run watching the sky for some air support and protecting their lives

So when a child thinks that you are protecting him , how would you explain him your prime orders  that you are protecting strategic places like oil pumps , and tanks , not him.
Now imagine you were  at the age of 10 that day , and you are one of about 20-30 people that have escaped from that camp where 10 000 were masacred.
Would you support the anti-interventionism in any country when you didn't support them even when they were defending you.



My opinion , well , if the world was normal I would support anyone who wants to stop any fight or torture anywhere , but if they gets there as a spectators , whit hidden purposes, with a plan to wait that fight is over , take credit for that, and builds his army base that he will use for his future military purposes , and conclude some business contracts , then NO I don't.





 








 
   





nruboc

« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2008, 10:43 »
0
Instead to answer I will tell you a story , a sad sad , but very true story but I want mention nations , probably some of us will know from where the story is.

Imagine 2 nations at war , one superior at that time but not capable to win. Here comes international forces and stand between them and they build a protection zone in surrounded city.

The offered shelter to the weaker side which was defending that city ,with condition to give all weapons to UN forces ,and they have accepted that , entered in camp surrounded with wires and stuff and UN were protecting them.

Next thing that happened , that the other side requested from UN they they abandon the safety zone and that they will held the people in camp prisoners and treat them fair like prisoners under Geneva convection.

You know what happened next , UN turned the head , went away from a protected zone and left 10 000 people , mostly older people , women and children and wounded solders  in hand of paramilitary troupes.


In next few hours they were all killed , mostly with knives , so that international forces soldiers can enjoy their drinks in some near restaurant without the unnecessary gunshots.

If there wasn't UN forces , they would mosly be alive cause the help was on the way.

Ten years after , the man that was leading those UN troops was on TV again. This time he was receiving a medal for his brave work in service.



So U ask me what I think , I think that U and people like you that know everything from your big plasma screens should know that in war nothing works , no international solider is willing to risk his life unless is attacked and he is there to get his paycheck and return home safely. There are no heroes , there is no God , if you stand in a way to a bullet it will hit you if a fight begins , soldiers are down or they run watching the sky for some air support and protecting their lives

So when a child thinks that you are protecting him , how would you explain him your prime orders  that you are protecting strategic places like oil pumps , and tanks , not him.
Now imagine you were  at the age of 10 that day , and you are one of about 20-30 people that have escaped from that camp where 10 000 were masacred.
Would you support the anti-interventionism in any country when you didn't support them even when they were defending you.

My opinion , well , if the world was normal I would support anyone who wants to stop any fight or torture anywhere , but if they gets there as a spectators , whit hidden purposes, with a plan to wait that fight is over , take credit for that, and builds his army base that he will use for his future military purposes , and conclude some business contracts , then NO I don't.




I'll leave it at this since you are incapable of answering a single question....

<sarcasm>
Next time there is a questionable intervention, I'll petition our government to get YOUR opinion before we make any foreign policy decisions, because I know you will have the US best interest in mind....
</sarcasm>


« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2008, 11:38 »
0
Lousy answer , KKK had people in high politics , they even had  governors like George Wallace , they had members in police , their crimes were almost legal , and their crimes have not been
processed. Even if they were , you had judges that were also KKK members (cause governor picked them) would set them free. That proves that the power was in their hands.

So you would probably be the first to support international invasion.

Thanks for the answer.


Lets continue , feed a troll again and please answer .Where is that biological weapon , main reason for attacking Iraq ?



Why do you keep changing the subject, can't you maintain a train of thought? Our discussion is on anti-interventionism, I've stated above I don't agree with our most recent intervention in Iraq, there are no biological weapson anymore, he used them all up on the Kurds. Now I want to hear you opinion on Darfur, Kuwait, Afghanistan. I answered one of yours, now answer one of mine, otherwise your just trolling.





I have a question for you.
And what about Tibete, Timor (did you now what appends in timor for 30 years?) Somalia, Palestina and many more? For your eyes they are less humans that Iraq, Afghanistan or Kuwait people?
That day dont deserve the help from US government (that the only interest is helping o needs?)



« Reply #65 on: March 20, 2008, 12:05 »
0
Instead to answer I will tell you a story , a sad sad , but very true story but I want mention nations , probably some of us will know from where the story is.

Imagine 2 nations at war , one superior at that time but not capable to win. Here comes international forces and stand between them and they build a protection zone in surrounded city.

The offered shelter to the weaker side which was defending that city ,with condition to give all weapons to UN forces ,and they have accepted that , entered in camp surrounded with wires and stuff and UN were protecting them.

Next thing that happened , that the other side requested from UN they they abandon the safety zone and that they will held the people in camp prisoners and treat them fair like prisoners under Geneva convection.

You know what happened next , UN turned the head , went away from a protected zone and left 10 000 people , mostly older people , women and children and wounded solders  in hand of paramilitary troupes.


In next few hours they were all killed , mostly with knives , so that international forces soldiers can enjoy their drinks in some near restaurant without the unnecessary gunshots.

If there wasn't UN forces , they would mosly be alive cause the help was on the way.

Ten years after , the man that was leading those UN troops was on TV again. This time he was receiving a medal for his brave work in service.



So U ask me what I think , I think that U and people like you that know everything from your big plasma screens should know that in war nothing works , no international solider is willing to risk his life unless is attacked and he is there to get his paycheck and return home safely. There are no heroes , there is no God , if you stand in a way to a bullet it will hit you if a fight begins , soldiers are down or they run watching the sky for some air support and protecting their lives

So when a child thinks that you are protecting him , how would you explain him your prime orders  that you are protecting strategic places like oil pumps , and tanks , not him.
Now imagine you were  at the age of 10 that day , and you are one of about 20-30 people that have escaped from that camp where 10 000 were masacred.
Would you support the anti-interventionism in any country when you didn't support them even when they were defending you.

My opinion , well , if the world was normal I would support anyone who wants to stop any fight or torture anywhere , but if they gets there as a spectators , whit hidden purposes, with a plan to wait that fight is over , take credit for that, and builds his army base that he will use for his future military purposes , and conclude some business contracts , then NO I don't.




I'll leave it at this since you are incapable of answering a single question....

<sarcasm>
Next time there is a questionable intervention, I'll petition our government to get YOUR opinion before we make any foreign policy decisions, because I know you will have the US best interest in mind....
</sarcasm>



I think Lizard answered your question... you just don't understand it.

« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2008, 12:14 »
0
Digilogy, I really liked the video :)

harry

« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2008, 00:43 »
0
Why do you keep changing the subject, can't you maintain a train of thought? Our discussion is on anti-interventionism, I've stated above I don't agree with our most recent intervention in Iraq, there are no biological weapson anymore, he used them all up on the Kurds. Now I want to hear you opinion on Darfur, Kuwait, Afghanistan. I answered one of yours, now answer one of mine, otherwise your just trolling.


The blatant problem with intervening in Darfur or anywhere else is that it's no longer possible. Who are you going to send? All the troops are bogged down in Iraq. No one believes the American military can afford another serious, long war. They could manage at the most a big noisy strike, a short invasion, following by a lame run for the door. The next time a nutcase invades an small oil rich state, there is nothing you can really do. Which is a shame, because America probably should intervene in Darfur, just as they should send more troops to the mountaneous region of Afghanistan to complete the first mission (what was the name of that guy in the turban again?). What a shame they shot themselves in the ass by randomly invading Iraq.

digiology

« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2008, 10:53 »
0
Digilogy, I really liked the video :)

Thanks Latex!  :) :) :)


 

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