MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: tab62 on July 25, 2013, 23:16
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Okay, I will start this debate with this article I found tonight-
http://www.dallaspsychologyreview.com/1/post/2013/05/why-your-cell-phone-will-never-replace-a-dslr.html#.UfH3h23-4g4 (http://www.dallaspsychologyreview.com/1/post/2013/05/why-your-cell-phone-will-never-replace-a-dslr.html#.UfH3h23-4g4)
T
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The best camera is the one you have with you...
Of course mobile phones will never replace DSLR while camera technology works the way it does (who's to say what the next camera technical revolution will be though). But they have different purposes. If all you ever want to do is upload snaps to facebook et al, why bother with a DSLR? You could probably even print reasonably decent small photobooks with mobile camera shots. A mobile phone can replace a DSLR for a lot of people, regardless of the technical differences.
I bought my first DLSR because I felt frustrated with the limitations of my point'n'shoot. I simply couldn't capture what I saw in my head with those, and my DSLR gives me worlds more creative range. I have no plans to give up my DSLR and have a lot of fun with it. But I still carry a p'n's, or take photos on my phone if I don't have it to hand, because often even a lower quality photo is better than no photo at all. Indeed, most photos on my cat photo blog are mobile uploads, often poor quality low-light shots, but the characters still show through and that's the point in that instance. I have photos that make me smile, and for that purpose I'm not too concerned where they came from, as even if I can't print them I have other ways of displaying and enjoying them.
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Will the Cell Phone Replace the dSLR?
Never
Its the same with everything, really. MP3 still hasnt replaced the CD.
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Im sure it will open up new markets and uses in time if I knew what they were I would be a very rich person.
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Will the Cell Phone Replace the dSLR?
Never
Its the same with everything, really. MP3 still hasnt replaced the CD.
Not for our generation, but my kids will never buy physical media for music. They want their tracks as files.
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And the CD didn't replace vinyl.
And digital didn't replace film.
And we all still use floppy discs.
etc etc etc
Smart phones have already pretty much replaced compact cameras and video cams as well.
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No because physical laws of light... Maybe in editorial photography (where we need information, not quality)....
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Not now. I've got my first iPhone few weeks ago and I must say that its camera admired by crowds totally disappointed me. But technology is moving that fast. Mobile phones are serious contender in editorial photography and will be probably good enough for outdoor shots soon. But I can hardly imagine studio equipped with all the strobes and ceiling systems and photographer with cell phone in hands (or even worse - on tripod).
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I have a studio full of strobes but in a few years there'll be like floppy discs collecting dust.
Have you noticed what's been happening with ISO. Some cameras can practically shoot in the dark.
I exaggerate, but still .....
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More of light is not the only reason for using strobes. But it's difficult to predict. If I would describe ten years ago how my cellphone will look like in 2013 I would probably wear straitjacket in mental hospital.
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Will the Cell Phone Replace the dSLR?
Never
Agreed. If you take a cell phone, add a decent sensor, interchangeable lenses for flexibility, fast autofocus, decent manual controls and buttons, good viewfinder, a good grip, connections for flashes, big memory cards etc... If you add that up you get a DSLR.
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iphone and sony(Honami) already have interchangeable lenses. Most of the other stuff is just software related
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I am not sure if cell phone will replace dslr, but something surely will.. everything is replaced sooner or later..
you may disagree if you are a 21st century incarnation of Charles Holland Duell :)
"Everything that can be invented has been invented."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Holland_Duell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Holland_Duell)
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I was shooting one dinner banquet for 80 people one month ago for one agency, with one of the most famous master chef in our republic.
Guess what, when he came from the kitchen, and people wanted a picture, noone was coming to me. they pushed me away, and all of them took a picture to the cell phone to share it on g+, facebook etc. I was actually glad, as I had a little bit of free time because of that.
BUT ! Of course the agency was requesting excellent pictures (and it was during afternoon 17-23 with sunset and then low light conditions) Would the smartphones deliver these pictures ? Nope.
So yes the smartphones have their place right now right here in the photography. But it is not the place where you get hired&paid.
ps. the agency did the mistake last year, low quality photos from cheaper camera results in almost non publishable content. But they had to. The image for the company? Not good.
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I'd certainly welcome having something lighter weight to lug around, but as things stand at the moment, I personally (and there must be many aged 50+ in the same position) don't like having to hold a screen out from my face to see what I'm taking. It's bound to introduce camera shake and anyway, having varifocals means it's really difficult to see clearly what I'm taking, so I just have to hold it in the 'general area' of what I'm shooting and hope for the best. It'll be a wee while no doubt before it will work for bird photography with a 400mm or longer lens. Probably they can already be attached to telescopes for digiscoping.
I'm not sure about dof. While still still in the 'slides are best' camp, I bought a Coolpix 5700 and loved the immediacy but hated the lack of control of depth of field.
IMO there are still two areas that dSLRs can improve on. One they're working on which is noise at high ISO - IMO that's progressing nicely, with some room for improvement still.
The second I'm not sure if any progress is being made - control of contrast, which is equally important to natural light shooters, whether it's weddings, editorial, sport, wildlife or events (etc.) HDR only works when what you're shooting doesn't move between 'clicks', and I have found the 'one shot HDR' to be better than just the one shot, for certain images, but not fully satisfactory.
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"The best camera is the one you have with you..."
It's a great saying, but assumes that the only image worth capturing is one you aren't prepared for.
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"The best camera is the one you have with you..."
It's a great saying, but assumes that the only image worth capturing is one you aren't prepared for.
No, it doesn't. If you have prepared for an image by bringing the camera you'd prefer, that's the best camera. If it malfunctions and you [1] only have a cellphone, you may decide to do some impromptu informal style shots, so that's your 'best camera'. (Or you might decide to abandon.)
[1] where 'you' isn't literally you, but someone without a spare dSLR.
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And the CD didn't replace vinyl.
And digital didn't replace film.
And we all still use floppy discs.
etc etc etc
Smart phones have already pretty much replaced compact cameras and video cams as well.
Sure, because they were better products, but the mobile phone camera is not up to par with a DSLR.
And for many pro shooters, digital never replaced film.
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Forget asking "will a cell phone ever replace a DSLR" and put it another way: "in the same technological generation, will a smaller sensor ever replace (read: match the image quality of) a larger sensor?" I think the answer is pretty obvious: no.
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There might come a day were cell phone cameras and DSLRs deliver equal pixel quality, but how much of an excellent photo is delivered by the quality of the camera? For a good photo, you also need good lighting (which can cost more than the camera), or an excellent eye for good lighting, and good camera skills.
I don't think we are afraid of the cell phones, but of the owners of cell phones who might start to think they can make the same quality photos as DSLR photographers. Is this not what happened at the start of microstock? Macro photographers being afraid that amateurs would start to think they could make the same quality photos? Wasn't this caused by Canon releasing the first 300D, the first affordable DLSR ?
So no, I'm not afraid of cell phones, but yes I fear the new generation of cell phone owners who discover a new hobby, which could grow into serious photography, just as it happened to most of us.
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There might come a day were cell phone cameras and DSLRs deliver equal pixel quality, but how much of an excellent photo is delivered by the quality of the camera? For a good photo, you also need good lighting (which can cost more than the camera), or an excellent eye for good lighting, and good camera skills.
I don't think we are afraid of the cell phones, but of the owners of cell phones who might start to think they can make the same quality photos as DSLR photographers. Is this not what happened at the start of microstock? Macro photographers being afraid that amateurs would start to think they could make the same quality photos? Wasn't this caused by Canon releasing the first 300D, the first affordable DLSR ?
So no, I'm not afraid of cell phones, but yes I fear the new generation of cell phone owners who discover a new hobby, which could grow into serious photography, just as it happened to most of us.
you're just so....right!!
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Taking a snap with a cell phone you already own anyway, turning into a hobby where you have to think about all that stuff you just mentioned including the expenses and the effort, might be a bigger step to take than you think.
Mobile cameras have been around for 10 years, why would it turn into a thread now? Because someone is offering 2.5 dollar for a mobile phone image?
Maybe the occasional mobile phone owner will turn to photography as a hobby, but I dont expect it to happen in drones.
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I think that before to say that cell phones will not replace dslr we must understand what propose Nokia today.
I have read a lot of comments considering that this mobile phone (Nokia 808) use a similar technology as the one used in the today dslr cameras.
It is not like this.
The technology is completely different.
Here is explained the Nokia's technology:
http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/849564/data/2/-/Download1.pdf (http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/849564/data/2/-/Download1.pdf)
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57386706-78/the-secret-behind-nokias-41-megapixel-camera-phone/ (http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57386706-78/the-secret-behind-nokias-41-megapixel-camera-phone/)
We also should consider that the Nokia 808 will produce jpg and not raw, and this can make a big difference in favor of the dslr
We should consider too, that if at the moment the quality of the Nokia 808 "can" be superior or equal to the one obtained with a dslr (I am still waiting to see some full size images produced by it……), this will be only temporary as surely dslr will soon use a similar technology (but with a bigger sensor).
The endless pursuit continues…
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the R will leave all DSLR very soon, I believe
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I think that before to say that cell phones will not replace dslr we must understand what propose Nokia today.
I have read a lot of comments considering that this mobile phone (Nokia 808) use a similar technology as the one used in the today dslr cameras.
It is not like this.
The technology is completely different.
Here is explained the Nokia's technology:
[url]http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/849564/data/2/-/Download1.pdf[/url] ([url]http://i.nokia.com/blob/view/-/849564/data/2/-/Download1.pdf[/url])
[url]http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57386706-78/the-secret-behind-nokias-41-megapixel-camera-phone/[/url] ([url]http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13970_7-57386706-78/the-secret-behind-nokias-41-megapixel-camera-phone/[/url])
We also should consider that the Nokia 808 will produce jpg and not raw, and this can make a big difference in favor of the dslr
We should consider too, that if at the moment the quality of the Nokia 808 "can" be superior or equal to the one obtained with a dslr (I am still waiting to see some full size images produced by it……), this will be only temporary as surely dslr will soon use a similar technology (but with a bigger sensor).
The endless pursuit continues…
The sensor uses pixel binning, but otherwise is quite traditional. The pixel binning will not compensate for the fact that it's smaller than APS-C or full frame sensors.
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No device replaces the artist eye, sense of composition and the art of post processing.
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Will things like Google glass replace the cell phone? I think being able to access the internet while seeing where you're going and not walking in to people will catch on.
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Will the Cell Phone Replace the dSLR?
Never
Its the same with everything, really. MP3 still hasnt replaced the CD.
Not for our generation, but my kids will never buy physical media for music. They want their tracks as files.
Both of the Hi-Fi shops in my town have recently closed down. I'm sure one of the main reasons is that the 'new generation' of potential customers simply aren't coming through. No point in having a high-end system if you only have MP3 files to play on it ... it'll just highlight the flaws in the compression.
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Both of the Hi-Fi shops in my town have recently closed down. I'm sure one of the main reasons is that the 'new generation' of potential customers simply aren't coming through. No point in having a high-end system if you only have MP3 files to play on it ...
or they just can not compete with internet prices
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Will the Cell Phone Replace the dSLR?
Yes- yes, if I can use my Nikon lenses on a mobile phone :-)
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Anything is possible - I guess. Look at this invention-
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/26/live-long-and-prosper-this-guy-built-a-real-life-star-trek-phaser/ (http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/26/live-long-and-prosper-this-guy-built-a-real-life-star-trek-phaser/)
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Anything is possible - I guess. Look at this invention-
[url]http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/26/live-long-and-prosper-this-guy-built-a-real-life-star-trek-phaser/[/url] ([url]http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/04/26/live-long-and-prosper-this-guy-built-a-real-life-star-trek-phaser/[/url])
Awesome.
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No device replaces the artist eye, sense of composition and the art of post processing.
That's it in a nutshell. There will always be a better hammer, but few can build a house with it. :) Quality will always, always matter to some.
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They already have mounts that provide the ability to attach dale lenses to mobile phones
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The very first commercial DSLRs were a major breakthrough but what we have today is so much advanced. The first camera phones were a major breakthrough but what we have today is so much advanced. It's just that the camera phones are delayed in development behind DSLRs. I have lived at the time digital data bits were stored on pieces of magnetic tape in (what is considered today) very small quantities. I'm sure cell phone cameras will advance a long way over the next 10 years. The DSLR will also advance and likely stay ahead in quality. At some point advancements in the technology hit a point where new increments are not nearly as significant and the pace slows. Yes, today personal computers are still gaining a lot of horsepower but much of it is not needed for typing an email or printing a letter. In the camera world we will soon reach the point where casual user needs little more power. It's then the hard core people that continue to push the technology to the end. Today we don't know where that end is - there is still a lot of growth potential in sensors and electronics. Maybe or maybe not in lenses.
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What's a CD? You mean like this DVDs that Blockbuster used to rent. (or was that VHS tapes) Hey were is Blockbuster anyway? ;)
No phone won't replace a quality camera. But memory chips, or other storage will replace CDs, sorry Ron.
Will the Cell Phone Replace the dSLR?
Never
Its the same with everything, really. MP3 still hasnt replaced the CD.
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(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02299/greg-rutherford_2299891b.jpg)
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/24/article-2163940-121EB10F000005DC-135_468x311.jpg)
I don't see how on earth a smartphone can take these photos. But if smartphone manufacturers are willing to put a high end lens onto their phone and selling it for 300 bucks. I'll be the first to jump ship.
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Right now shutter lag is one of my biggest complaints with tracking devices cameras, but that could be avoided with continuous sensing and then just recording when told too. If they put something like the lytro sensor on there though... Still, I think it will be a while before the little cameras can do what the big ones can do now, and by then I imagine that the big ones will still be way ahead. I wouldn't be surprised if the mirror reflex part goes away though as someone mentioned above.
I have often seen the images on the back of phones or p&s cameras and thought they really nailed it only to look at the full image on a computer and be overwhelmed with the noise etc. Part of this is my microstock pixel peeping obsession, but part is just poor image quality.
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What's a CD? You mean like this DVDs that Blockbuster used to rent. (or was that VHS tapes) Hey were is Blockbuster anyway? ;)
No phone won't replace a quality camera. But memory chips, or other storage will replace CDs, sorry Ron.
Will the Cell Phone Replace the dSLR?
Never
Its the same with everything, really. MP3 still hasnt replaced the CD.
whatever, I said still hasn't. The never was about the mobile camera replacing dslr.
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What's a CD? You mean like this DVDs that Blockbuster used to rent. (or was that VHS tapes) Hey were is Blockbuster anyway? ;)
No phone won't replace a quality camera. But memory chips, or other storage will replace CDs, sorry Ron.
Will the Cell Phone Replace the dSLR?
Never
Its the same with everything, really. MP3 still hasnt replaced the CD.
whatever, I said still hasn't. The never was about the mobile camera replacing dslr.
OK MP3 or whatever format will come soon, hasn't totally replaced CDs... YET. I'd agree to that. But like records were made obsolete by CDs, some people still collect and play them. CDs are old technology and outdated. You can hang on and play them for now.
Hey does your computer have a floppy drive? Do you have a VHS player (some people don't anymore, I still do) Does your laptop have a PCMCIA slot? See a serial port on your computer or maybe parallel port? MFM drives? Modems tha dial on the analog phone lines? Where did all those things go, if they aren't obsolete? CDs will soon follow.
And back to the OP, no the cell phone will not replace the DSLR. One place the Fuji 100sx is replacing the DSLR. Someone else says the EOS-M and mirror-less cameras. But the point is, they are alternatives, using the same technology, not a replacement. And sensor size? Put an APS-C in a cell phone and a real lens, we'll start talking.
I have read where the cell phone is displacing the pocket camera.
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This is the way things are going.......
The Samsung Galaxy NX Digital Camera with 18-55mm Lens Black is a mirrorless Android powered camera featuring a large 20.3 MP APS-C CMOS sensor, Wi-Fi and 3G/4G LTE connectivity.
I'm not sure if there's a parallel but I feel MP3 sacrifices quality in favour of convenience over CD.
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I'm not sure if there's a parallel but I feel MP3 sacrifices quality in favour of convenience over CD.
Plus just like there's a generation who mostly don't recognise the loss of sound quality of CD over vinyl, there is a new generation who don't recognise the loss between CD and mp3.
In the same way, for many purposes many in the new generation won't recognise the difference between phone pics and any other, unless it's pointed out to them, and even then the difference is only really obvious in specialist areas.
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I don't think there is a loss of quality between CD and Vinyl - although I do believe some CDs are now poorly produced for the MP3 generation.
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I don't think there is a loss of quality between CD and Vinyl.
I've often read that it is so. I can't hear it, but I've had very slight hearing issues since childhood. I probably couldn't hear the difference betwen CD and mp3 either, unless maybe in lab conditions.
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The difference is not between CD or Vinyl.
The difference is between analog and digital recording.
Analog recording (in theory) sounds better because it is a continuous signal, not a succession of samples like for digital recording.
So vinyl from analog recording will sound better than CD form digital recording (till the vinyl is intact…).
But we have vinyl from digital recording too (they were called DDA or Digital Mastered if I remember well) and a vinyl from a digital recording will surely not sound better than a CD from the same digital recording.
But we also should consider than today the quality of the equipment used for digital recording is very higher than the one of the equipment used 20 or 30 years ago, and this can really make a huge difference.
One of the problem of recording and mastering today is the abuse of the dynamic compression that tends to produce a higher level (volume) but a less large dynamic band.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
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I think you are right - I think digital recording came out slightly before CDs - purists would also say digital more easily enables unethical manipulation.
Sound quality is HIGHLY subjective
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no but it's just a matter of taste and what you like to shoot, every camera is a compromise ( even phone cameras ;) ) all have advantages and disadvantages.
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I think you are right - I think digital recording came out slightly before CDs - purists would also say digital more easily enables unethical manipulation.
Sound quality is HIGHLY subjective
Digital recording has been invented by Alec Reeves (British) in 1937… (PCM - Pulse Code Modulation)
The first Digital recorder on tape in 1967…
:)
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If I remember correctly commercial digitally recorded classical records came out 2-3 yrs before CDs though in those days there was lots of hype around different recording technology
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absolutely not, not yet at the moment, the sensor is smaller and the lenses do not want to talk
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Well, I was out with some friends for lunch today and a Swallow was nesting on the rafters of the restaurant veranda, quite low down, and the three of us were trying to sneak up on it to photograph it with our phonecams.
Hahahahaha. (said the Swallow).
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Hi all
Never. Good images requires a lot of glass (lens) and larger sensor than phones have.
Sure, sometimes we can get very good results with camera phones too. But sometimes only.
No for sports, wedding and events. Mobile photogarphy need a lot of light and standing or slowly moving objects. In dark conditions results are very bad yet.
Best,
Jaak
http://www.jaaknilson.ee (http://www.jaaknilson.ee)
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Forget asking "will a cell phone ever replace a DSLR" and put it another way: "in the same technological generation, will a smaller sensor ever replace (read: match the image quality of) a larger sensor?" I think the answer is pretty obvious: no.
Did 35mm cameras ever match the image quality of medium or large format cameras? No.
Did 35mm cameras pretty much replace medium or large format cameras anyway? Yes.
Why? Because they were easier to carry around and the quality was deemed "good enough".