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Author Topic: Will the Russia/Ukraine war affect sales?  (Read 15650 times)

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« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2022, 11:57 »
+1
Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.

On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.


« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2022, 12:04 »
+2
Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.

On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.

#whataboutism, #putinpropaganda

S2D2

« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2022, 12:08 »
+1

'Here's to experience, good judgment, reasonably decent manners, and basic old-fashioned smarts'! :D

I'll drink to that  🍻😊🥂

« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2022, 12:23 »
+2
Cathy, Im concerned you might actually be suffering from a mental illness. Please try and get help. Hope you get better soon.

Thank you for your concern, even though its backhanded. Just wait. Youll see. 😂 Did you bother to look up the WEF? The Great Reset? Those who live in the UK should understand, its happening there. I dont expect many to come to my defense because no one wants to be called mentally ill. And most WILL think I'm crazy.

Remember the scoffing at #plandemic? Gosh, have you heard much about rona in the past week? It just magically disappeared! Of course you are going to say the vacseens eradicated it. Have you looked at the VAERS data on vacs injuries? No bet not. Have you seen that even the CDC is withholding info and backtracking? Have you seen that pfizzer and mod-er na stocks are dropping and investors are bailing?

rona = out   war = in   But you go ahead and stay blind. 😀

Ill just leave this, just in case some have an open mind. Pay attention to the members, too.
https://www.weforum.org/partners/

Carry on.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 15:17 by cathyslife »

« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2022, 13:20 »
0


What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion.

What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.

Actually, your answer doesn't have to do with a single fact he wrote and those are also valid points.

You talk about fear, how about fear from our European colonialism. There are still billions and billions Europe is exploiting from ex and current colonies as we speak. From countries where children are dying from hunger. How can they pull away from deals they were forced to sign?

You are speaking about fear in 1968 and also mentioning Belgium.
Can you deny a fact that in that same Belgum in late 50s  still had human zoo-s where visitors nicely feed black people from hand like animals. In walking distance from todays EU Commision headquarters.

Just that same Belgium killed between 10-15 million Africans in their colonies. In the times when world had 4 time less population. In today numbers that would mean extinction a whole population of a country like Ukraine. In whole WWII 70M people lost their life and a small country like Belgium manage to have 20% of that number of deaths from 1885 to 1908 in places that were unable to defend themself.

When we are already in those times, wanna talk about Duch in Indonesia ?

The only difference is that Russia holds the power so then can behave like this. Some others might be even worse in their shoes.

 


 


marthamarks

« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2022, 13:32 »
0
Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.

On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.

#whataboutism, #putinpropaganda

OMG, my sweet, dearly beloved old pal Zero we are in total agreement there!!!!

How in he'll could that possibly have happened????

S2D2

« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2022, 13:53 »
+1

And by the way, if our beloved friend Zero can get away with calling me "sweet Martha," I can get away with calling you "pal."


Here you go, sweet Martha!
I am happy to see you standing up against Putin's propaganda!

This is much better than unnecessarily jumping in to defend your naive buddies, who either hope that Putin will stop here, or from their Putin gas warmed homes find excuses for the lack of action and cowerdness of their elected politicians, or still think that Europe can't do much to stop him, after he "check-mated"  :o the world.  ::)

I'm happy to see you realizing that Putin's propaganda is your enemy, not the realism of the current situation.

Proud of you!
 :-*

As you appear not to feel that Russia having the largest stash of nuclear weapons in the world should be sufficient deterrent for Europe (with regard to 'on the ground' action), what do you think Europe should do?

As a European yourself, living in the US, do you have such a strong opinion of what the US is not doing?

All you do is criticize/attack the members of the forum (and 'Europe'), usually by sarcastic means, instead of direct constructive conversation.

Please answer directly, not like your usual answers, ie avoiding the question and making an unrelated statement.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 14:20 by DO »

thijsdegraaf

« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2022, 14:30 »
+2


What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion.

What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.

Actually, your answer doesn't have to do with a single fact he wrote and those are also valid points.

You talk about fear, how about fear from our European colonialism. There are still billions and billions Europe is exploiting from ex and current colonies as we speak. From countries where children are dying from hunger. How can they pull away from deals they were forced to sign?

You are speaking about fear in 1968 and also mentioning Belgium.
Can you deny a fact that in that same Belgum in late 50s  still had human zoo-s where visitors nicely feed black people from hand like animals. In walking distance from todays EU Commision headquarters.

Just that same Belgium killed between 10-15 million Africans in their colonies. In the times when world had 4 time less population. In today numbers that would mean extinction a whole population of a country like Ukraine. In whole WWII 70M people lost their life and a small country like Belgium manage to have 20% of that number of deaths from 1885 to 1908 in places that were unable to defend themself.

When we are already in those times, wanna talk about Duch in Indonesia ?

The only difference is that Russia holds the power so then can behave like this. Some others might be even worse in their shoes.

 


I mentioned that, because Putin stated that he has the right to invade Ukraine based on history, when Ukraine was still part of Russia. He calls his army a liberation army.
If you reason in this way, you can also say that the Netherlands has a right to Flanders because it belonged to the Nederlands. Which of course is nonsense, because you can turn back history. We get on well with each other. That could also have happened between the Ukrainians and the Russians. Not anymore I'm afraid.
Aks1 wrote that we wanted Ukraine to join NATO, even though that was their request not us Wich was refused. So he was wrong. (The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders).
Perhaps Putin should have paid less attention to building a super army and more to good neighborly relations.
That is why I mention the example with Czechoslovakia that does not want to go back after that raid. Those countries seek protection by requesting affiliation with NATO and not the other way around. Out of fear and not because NATO is whining if they would please join. And that fear now turns out to be justified.
 
I know the Belgian Congo, of course, just like Indonesia and slavery in the Netherlands. Every country has its history that it is not proud of. There are also many discussions about the recent mistakes such as Indonesia. Also in the worthless way in which the indonesian  refugees were received at the time. Also because a large part of the population now (just like my children) has Indonesian roots.
But do you mean that you have no right to criticize another country? Not if you don't pay attention to your own flaws. Then you are right.
The problem is that the countries that have left the Soviet Union do not want to go back.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 14:34 by thijsdegraaf »

« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2022, 15:09 »
+2
 
 
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US...

how can you 'remember' anything about this forum when you first showed up 3 weeks ago?

Get you history straight - the US never invaded Syria, Libya or Serbia. The US did participate in the NATO bombings in response to Serbia's ethnic cleansing of Kosovo and a NATO led intervention in Libya which did not include ground troops

as far as other US invasions/interventions, many of us have a long history of opposition to US actions abroad - mine started with organizing against the Vietnam war as a conscientious objector
Quote
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
Please quote the comments here that expressed hate for "everything Russian."

Quote
it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
what despicable nonsense!

« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2022, 15:20 »
0



I mentioned that, because Putin stated that he has the right to invade Ukraine based on history, when Ukraine was still part of Russia. He calls his army a liberation army.
If you reason in this way, you can also say that the Netherlands has a right to Flanders because it belonged to the Nederlands. Which of course is nonsense, because you can turn back history. We get on well with each other. That could also have happened between the Ukrainians and the Russians. Not anymore I'm afraid.
Aks1 wrote that we wanted Ukraine to join NATO, even though that was their request not us Wich was refused. So he was wrong. (The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders).
Perhaps Putin should have paid less attention to building a super army and more to good neighborly relations.
That is why I mention the example with Czechoslovakia that does not want to go back after that raid. Those countries seek protection by requesting affiliation with NATO and not the other way around. Out of fear and not because NATO is whining if they would please join. And that fear now turns out to be justified.
 
I know the Belgian Congo, of course, just like Indonesia and slavery in the Netherlands. Every country has its history that it is not proud of. There are also many discussions about the recent mistakes such as Indonesia. Also in the worthless way in which the indonesian  refugees were received at the time. Also because a large part of the population now (just like my children) has Indonesian roots.
But do you mean that you have no right to criticize another country? Not if you don't pay attention to your own flaws. Then you are right.
The problem is that the countries that have left the Soviet Union do not want to go back.

I wrote that cause you got back in 68, but we can agree that the western world has and is doing things beyond imagination of a sane mind. Same and worst than Putin ot USSR back then.

But its a fact that USSR fell apart on some terms, and Russia enter some disarming negotiations under some terms. NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.

Its also a fact that Ukraine had some peace treaties with Russia which they abandoned with positive reinforcement from the west. Openly calling for joining NATO and for installing western rocket systems at the gate of dominant nuclear power country is a stupid political thing to do. And now they see that that same west wont risk their faith for them.

And politically, dancing between west and the east can bring you tremendous benefits. Tito showed that pretty well in his time. Ukraine should have used that card way better and realize they are not in the position to play with the future depending on a mood of few psychopaths that want them in their team.

« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2022, 15:24 »
0


how can you 'remember' anything about this forum when you first showed up 3 weeks ago?



Well I joined 2 years before you and I still dont remember that the reaction on those acts were the same as now because they were not.

There were not 3 sentences written when it happened in Lybia. You think their lives are worth less?

You can always dig them out, put a link and prove me wrong.  ;)


marthamarks

« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2022, 15:25 »
0

 
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US...

how can you 'remember' anything about this forum when you first showed up 3 weeks ago?


Maybe this Aks1 dude (or, less likely, dudette) is one of our old buddies from days gone by one of those who pops up, spouts off, and then disappears never to be seen again, until somebody who sounds just like him reappears, spouts off only to disappear again.

We saw some of that during last year's overheaded vaccine debate, as I recall.

Funny how that works, ain't it?

« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2022, 15:37 »
+1


Get you history straight - the US never invaded Syria, Libya or Serbia. The US did participate in the NATO bombings in response to Serbia's ethnic cleansing of Kosovo and a NATO led intervention in Libya which did not include ground troops


This is a civil hospital "Dragisa Misovic" after NATO intervention...think about that


« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2022, 15:49 »
0
https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2022/02/24/national-vaccine-quietly-rolled-out/

From Forbes: National Vaccine ID Quietly Rolled Out. Some red states on board.

Look! Over there! War in Ukraine!

« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2022, 15:54 »
0


« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2022, 16:06 »
+2
 
...
 NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.
''
a massive HUH? putting aside Greece & Turkey which were early members of NATO, which of these countires do you think are west of Germany?

Have you looked at a map?
  • Bulgaria
    Estonia
    Hungary
     Lithuania
     Montngro
     North Macedonia
     Poland
     Romania
     Slovakia
     Slovenia

and while not completely east of a united Germany 
  • Czech Rep
    Croatia
    Slovenia

« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2022, 17:14 »
0
 
...
 NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.
''
a massive HUH? putting aside Greece & Turkey which were early members of NATO, which of these countires do you think are west of Germany?

Have you looked at a map?
  • Bulgaria
    Estonia
    Hungary
     Lithuania
     Montngro
     North Macedonia
     Poland
     Romania
     Slovakia
     Slovenia

and while not completely east of a united Germany 
  • Czech Rep
    Croatia
    Slovenia

Why didn't you quote the full sentence ?

Its exactly what Im saying. Russians claim that they pulled back from their demands in 1990 cause they got that promise which wasn't kept in all this examples. And now even discussing Ukraine joining NATO as a land at their gates means enough.

You seriously think they would let that the Berlin wall falls and fallout of eastern block without their intervention for nothing in exchange ?

Even if it was unwritten, Ukraine recently pulled out from their official peace treaty ( "the Big Treaty") with Russia which was among other things preventing them to join NATO and bring it to Russias gates. 

I doubt maniacs on the other side of the globe would reacted differently if they planned to bring their "defence" on those gates. For someone in between, the are acting absolutely the same.

For the one valuing some lifes more than others there is just one evil.

And also, at the latest case, Croatian referendum law was changed for a month so they can be pulled in NATO because majority of people didn't even vent out to vote on referendum which is crucial for a country entering in international unions. Same goes for their joining EU when less than 50% of people voted. As soon that was taken care of the law was changed back and had to have turnover over 50% to be lawful.

And thats how people are willingly joining unions.

What if referendum fails ? They hold it again and again and again...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia%E2%80%93NATO_relations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Croatian_European_Union_membership_referendum[/img



« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 17:31 by Lizard »

« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2022, 17:32 »
0
Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.

On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.

#whataboutism, #putinpropaganda

OMG, my sweet, dearly beloved old pal Zero we are in total agreement there!!!!

How in he'll could that possibly have happened????

No worries, my dear. Some people are secondary and need more time to realize the obvious. I understand that.

Moreover, simple hashtags may sometimes cut through onomatopoeic noises and get straight to the essence of an argument.

Love!
 :-*
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 19:15 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2022, 17:53 »
0

And by the way, if our beloved friend Zero can get away with calling me "sweet Martha," I can get away with calling you "pal."


Here you go, sweet Martha!
I am happy to see you standing up against Putin's propaganda!

This is much better than unnecessarily jumping in to defend your naive buddies, who either hope that Putin will stop here, or from their Putin gas warmed homes find excuses for the lack of action and cowerdness of their elected politicians, or still think that Europe can't do much to stop him, after he "check-mated"  :o the world.  ::)

I'm happy to see you realizing that Putin's propaganda is your enemy, not the realism of the current situation.

Proud of you!
 :-*

As you appear not to feel that Russia having the largest stash of nuclear weapons in the world should be sufficient deterrent for Europe (with regard to 'on the ground' action), what do you think Europe should do?

As a European yourself, living in the US, do you have such a strong opinion of what the US is not doing?

All you do is criticize/attack the members of the forum (and 'Europe'), usually by sarcastic means, instead of direct constructive conversation.

Please answer directly, not like your usual answers, ie avoiding the question and making an unrelated statement.

What about The USA, you ask? #whataboutism much? Be careful, my sweet Martha may agree with me on this one!  ;)

But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.

Besides, you keep on bringing the number of nuclear weapons in the discussion, as it matters. No, it doesn't! One is more than enough to kill tens of millions. Ok, you might need one or two as a backup in case of malfunction, but there is no difference between the 200 owned by The UK and the 6000 owned by Russia.

Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory.


« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 18:28 by Zero Talent »

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2022, 18:16 »
+3
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 03:55 by ShadySue »

« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2022, 20:15 »
0

 

But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.


...

which  is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane

« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2022, 21:22 »
0

 

But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.


...

which  is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane

Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.

It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.

At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 21:29 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2022, 22:37 »
+2

 

But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.


...

which  is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane

Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.

It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.

At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.

You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed. 

marthamarks

« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2022, 22:46 »
+2

What about The USA, you ask? #whataboutism much? Be careful, my sweet Martha may agree with me on this one!  ;)

Not likely, O Beloved One. Such miracles are likely to occur only every decade or two.


 

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