Author Topic: taxes at PantherMedia (Read 19799 times)

luissantos84 · « **on:** April 17, 2012, 06:51 »

few days ago received another payment from PM, have nothing against them actually they are like my 6th or 7th best agency but yesterday saw that my last payment wasn´t "correct", so I contact them and now seems that we have 15% taxes taken from our payouts...

Hello Luis,

due to German tax legisalations, we have to follow an additional rule.

According to §50a of the German Income Tax Act, we have to keep a 15% tax and have to pay that to the German Tax Office. This amount is automatically deducted from your payout.

Additional information will follow in the newsletter next week and also on our "commission" page at:
http://www.panthermedia.net/index.php?page=cms/pages/display2.php&cms_id=681

best regards

Eugenia Amerchel
PantherMedia

Microbius · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2012, 07:00 »

Yeah I don't really know if they are correct to be doing it or not, I mentioned it in this thread:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/panthermedia-net/rights-managed-at-panther/msg250868/?topicseen#new
but it does need it's own thread really. Here's a re-post of their announcement:

This was at the bottom of the email describing the RM stuff:
"Tax adjustment for international photographers

We had to modify the payout for our international photographers. PantherMedia has to deduct a general income tax at 15% for all international photographers outside of Germany (§15a German Income Tax Act). Based upon the Double Tax Treaty between Germany and your respective country, you do not have to pay additional income tax in your country.

Please note: This income tax has nothing to do with VAT. All private people, as well as companies have to pay this tax in Germany. For additional info, please have a look at the Double Tax Treaty between Germany and your country or refer to your tax consultant. "

Someone said other German agencies don't do this?

luissantos84 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2012, 07:08 »

like Zoonar, never got to a payout, don´t know but they seem to have a lot less sales but giving us a huge %

click_click · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2012, 08:30 »

As I wrote in the other thread, if they really do that, and apparently they do, I'm out.

I was still in the process of uploading my port there and reached 32% commission but with another 15% taken out I'm left with less than 28% commission. No thanks. With that kind of sales volume it's not worth my time and I upload to a lot of smaller agencies.

I'm with other German agencies and none of them pull this cr@p on me.

I contacted them several days ago - haven't heard from them. I wonder why...

luissantos84 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2012, 09:57 »

Quote from: click_click on April 17, 2012, 08:30

As I wrote in the other thread, if they really do that, and apparently they do, I'm out.

I was still in the process of uploading my port there and reached 32% commission but with another 15% taken out I'm left with less than 28% commission. No thanks. With that kind of sales volume it's not worth my time and I upload to a lot of smaller agencies.

I'm with other German agencies and none of them pull this cr@p on me.

I contacted them several days ago - haven't heard from them. I wonder why...

can you share which agencies you are talking about?

click_click · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2012, 12:47 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on April 17, 2012, 09:57

can you share which agencies you are talking about?

One of them is Clipdealer (obviously) and the others I prefer not to share as they have very small collections and it's so nice an cozy there right now.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2012, 14:04 »

Quote from: click_click on April 17, 2012, 12:47

Quote from: luissantos84 on April 17, 2012, 09:57
can you share which agencies you are talking about?
One of them is Clipdealer (obviously) and the others I prefer not to share as they have very small collections and it's so nice an cozy there right now.

sure we all have some of those thanks

MarcvsTvllivs · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2012, 17:31 »

For what it's worth - this is not PantherMedia's fault. Apparently the applicable tax treaty provides for income to be taxed at the source. That is unfortunate, but the agencies can't disregard the law.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2012, 18:19 »

Quote from: MarcvsTvllivs on April 17, 2012, 17:31

For what it's worth - this is not PantherMedia's fault. Apparently the applicable tax treaty provides for income to be taxed at the source. That is unfortunate, but the agencies can't disregard the law.

that said, we still have agencies not collecting taxes..

Microbius · « **Reply #10 on:** April 18, 2012, 04:56 »

I hope that is the case, I will have a read into it and repost here. If this is to cover VAT then I fear it is lost money for most of us in the UK as most are not VAT registered (below threshold). If it is income tax, then it is not bad news at all!

Team PantherMedia · « **Reply #11 on:** April 18, 2012, 05:06 »

It has nothing to do with VAT. Absolutely nothing. We pay out without VAT into countries outside Germany anyway.

Colette · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2012, 07:23 »

US based agencies withhold taxes only from sales that are made by US citizens AND only when the contributor’s country has no tax treaty with the United States.

So if I understand this right: Does Panthermedia withhold taxes from ALL sales made by German as well as not German buyers and is it after that not needed to give up the not withholded part of the sales from Panthermedia as an income to the tax department in your own country?

If the answer to this question is Yes: Is it not possible to do this the same way as the US based agencies does: only withhold taxes from sales made by German buyers AND only when the contributor’s country has no tax treaty with Germany?

I am paying all taxes from all my income (even from all stockagencies) in my own country, for my country has a tax treaty with the US. I am not sure the taxdepartment will accept that I do not give up income from Panthermedia for the reason taxes are already paid in Germany.

Colette · « **Reply #13 on:** April 18, 2012, 07:26 »

Quote

and is it after that not needed to give up the not withholded part of the sales from Panthermedia as an income to the tax department in your own country?

Correction:
What I mean is: in the contributor's country

MarcvsTvllivs · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2012, 17:44 »

Quote from: Colette on April 18, 2012, 07:23

US based agencies withhold taxes only from sales that are made by US citizens AND only when the contributor’s country has no tax treaty with the United States.

So if I understand this right: Does Panthermedia withhold taxes from ALL sales made by German as well as not German buyers and is it after that not needed to give up the not withholded part of the sales from Panthermedia as an income to the tax department in your own country?

If the answer to this question is Yes: Is it not possible to do this the same way as the US based agencies does: only withhold taxes from sales made by German buyers AND only when the contributor’s country has no tax treaty with Germany?

I am paying all taxes from all my income (even from all stockagencies) in my own country, for my country has a tax treaty with the US. I am not sure the taxdepartment will accept that I do not give up income from Panthermedia for the reason taxes are already paid in Germany.

I do not know what your country is so I can't look up what their double taxation treaty with Germany provides for. If there is a treaty between your country and Germany, you will only have to pay taxes on one end and the treaty will say on which. This, then, will have to be accepted by both countries and you should be able to sue your revenue administration if it doesn't (happens all the time). The problem is if there isn't a double taxation treaty. Depending on what your country's tax law says, you may end up being taxed on both ends.

Colette · « **Reply #15 on:** April 19, 2012, 08:49 »

The problem here is that Panthermedia does not ask for a tax treaty as far as I have seen. They simply seem to withhold the taxes from every contributor.

When paying taxes in your own country there is not only the obligation to pay your taxes, there are also certain rights. In my country it is the right to also give up the expenses that I have to make for my job and that lowers the tax I have to pay.
But also there is a law that I have to give up my ‘world income’ which means that I have to pay taxes for all income I have worldwide. Not every country has this law.

I did not ask this questions only for myself. Every country has its own tax laws, but also the rights can be different.

For it is all a bit confusing for me too, I called my financial advisor about these questions and he said that Panthermedia acts correct following the rules of the European Union and also that there is a discussion international about the US doing it not correct. He also said that this way I can claim a total gross income, then deduct my costs and what is witholded by PM (and/or eventually by others) and pay taxes over what is left. He said this way only contributors from countries that have no tax treaty with the country the agency is based in AND having tax laws in their own country that doesn’t accept the taxes being paid elsewhere, can get double taxed. But on the other side there also can be contributors that are not obliged to give up ‘world income’ in their own countries and are not taxed over their foreign income at all (until now by PM….!

).

luissantos84 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 20, 2012, 07:56 »

the 15% for taxes are from all sales right? even if they are from Japan?

if so there isn´t an agency doing this like you have said..

Colette · « **Reply #17 on:** April 20, 2012, 12:26 »

Until now PM is the only agency doing it this way as far as I know. But it seems that this is the correct way following the rules of the European Union.
And indeed: they withold the taxes from your total income no matter where the sales came from.
US based agencies do it different, they only withold the taxes from sales made within the US and only when your country has no tax treaty with the US.
For the taxes in my country it makes no difference.

I don't know if there are big differences in tax laws on this point, but in my case I can give up my total gross 'world income' (For PM that is 85 percent+the 15 percent taxes they have already withold) , then deduct my costs and then deduct the 15 percent from PM as already paid tax. What rests at last is my taxable income.
US based agencies withold nothing in my case, but if my country shouldn't have a tax treaty with the US, it still shouldn't make a difference, for I can deduct the already in the US paid taxes like I can do with PM.

I suppose it is a question of time and all agencies are obliged going to do this. When based in the European Union I expect that they are going the same way as PM does. What surprises me is that Fotolia for example followed the US way, while based in France.
Perhaps they have their headquarter in the US?

For the IRS the US way is in fact more unfavourable, for they only receive a small part of the total taxes. They left the rest to the country the contributor comes from.
To me it seems a more complicated way too, for this way the agencies have a whole administration to do about US- and non US sales.

Team PantherMedia · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2013, 04:09 »

@Colette,

you can apply for a tay exemption at the German government. We will help you with that. Based on the country you are living in and the respective double tax treaty, you might get up to 100% of your payout. Please contact our support if you need help with that.

Best regards,

Robert

mtkang · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2013, 05:50 »

it is same as US tax?

can panthermedia provide a link which countries need to pay the tax, and which isn't?

Colette · « **Reply #21 on:** February 26, 2013, 11:59 »

@ Robert from Panthermedia:
Thanks for your response on this forum today.
I had to laugh a bit reading this, for my post is dated April 20, 2012!

For myself I don’t think it will be very useful to ask for a tax exemption. But I am gong to ask for more info about that.
For others, living in countries with different laws, it may be useful. So thank you for the update.

The link is in German language. There are also German speaking people here, so when someone has problems with reading German, perhaps one of them can explain when asked?

mtkang · « **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2013, 19:11 »

are there any countries which doesn't need to pay that 15% tax?

all countries from this list needs to pay the 15% tax regardless where the sales from?

http://www.bundesfinanzministerium.de/Web/DE/Themen/Steuern/Internationales_Steuerrecht/Staatenbezogene_Informationen/staatenbezogene_info.html

Colette · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2013, 02:49 »

On Feb 26 2013 Robert from PM wrote that it is possible to apply for a tax exemption and he wrote also that they will help you with that.
Better to contact them directly with your personal info when you still have questions about this.

Paulfleet · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2013, 04:25 »

I contacted them and they emailed me the relevant forms with most of the information filled in for me. All I need now is proof of residency. I applied on line for this two weeks ago still not arrived. so I have been taxed on another payment. when I do get my certificate of residency I need to post it to the German tax office with the two forms one of which is all German so I only have a rough idea of what's on it. then wait.....I will let you know how I get on (so far I am wondering whether it is worth it or not for the small amount I make there. (I am in the UK)

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Author Topic: taxes at PantherMedia (Read 19799 times)

luissantos84

Microbius

luissantos84

click_click

luissantos84

click_click

luissantos84

MarcvsTvllivs

luissantos84

Team PantherMedia

Microbius

Team PantherMedia

Colette

Colette

MarcvsTvllivs

Colette

luissantos84

Colette

Team PantherMedia

mtkang

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Colette

mtkang

Colette

Paulfleet

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