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Author Topic: Avoid Paypal currency exchange fees?? (dollar -> euro)  (Read 20217 times)

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« on: January 26, 2017, 12:50 »
0
Does anyone have a method of avoiding the appalling Paypal currency exchange rates? Some of my earnings from stock sales is in dollars, and Paypal will only let me withdraw in euros. And thus forcing me to accept the exchange rate from Paypal that is much worse than just about anywhere else.
It costs me hundreds of euros each year.


« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2017, 14:06 »
0
Haven't found a way other than opening a US bank account, but then you would have to pay US tax.

I hear Payoneer might be slightly better.

dpimborough

« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 14:36 »
+5
Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that


« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2017, 16:21 »
+4
Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

Then you should probably switch banks. 2.5% is really high.

My bank has a reasonable 0.5% currency conversion fee. If they could only be sent dollars from PayPal I would save many, many monies.  :)

2.5% can make sense if you're sending $100, but when the numbers go up to $10,000+, the fees become ridiculous. $50 should be the maximum fee at 2.5% and then 0.5% on top of that.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 16:35 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2017, 16:46 »
0
Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

Then you should probably switch banks. 2.5% is really high.

My bank has a reasonable 0.5% currency conversion fee. If they could only be sent dollars from PayPal I would save many, many monies.  :)

2.5% can make sense if you're sending $100, but when the numbers go up to $10,000+, the fees become ridiculous. $50 should be the maximum fee at 2.5% and then 0.5% on top of that.

Some banks make money twice, the currency conversion fee and again on a lousy tourist conversion rate.

« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2017, 17:19 »
+6
i always wonder why people think using a service should be free, without realizing that without that service they would have to use cheques or bank payments and pay 10-100 times more to get paid.

i am happy paypal is around to make my life a lot easier when its payday

« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2017, 00:49 »
+1
Does anyone have a method of avoiding the appalling Paypal currency exchange rates? Some of my earnings from stock sales is in dollars, and Paypal will only let me withdraw in euros. And thus forcing me to accept the exchange rate from Paypal that is much worse than just about anywhere else.
It costs me hundreds of euros each year.

Probably your main currency is euro, I live in Bulgaria and somehow my main currency is usd and I just attached debit card with usd currency to paypal so I do not get charged for currency conversion. Although I get charged for the opposite, when I receive euro I need to withdraw in usd :D, so in the end it always costs me money.

« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2017, 04:11 »
0
Probably your main currency is euro, I live in Bulgaria and somehow my main currency is usd and I just attached debit card with usd currency to paypal so I do not get charged for currency conversion. Although I get charged for the opposite, when I receive euro I need to withdraw in usd :D, so in the end it always costs me money.

I thought they stopped doing this. It doesn't matter if your card is in dollars if they see it's in Bulgaria.

Right now, $1 should equal 1.83 Bulgarian lev, what are you getting at PayPal if you withdraw $1 right now?

« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2017, 04:28 »
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How's that possible, my card is USD only for instance, are you implying they are converting USD to EUR and back again to USD before sending money to card?

« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2017, 04:29 »
0
i always wonder why people think using a service should be free, without realizing that without that service they would have to use cheques or bank payments and pay 10-100 times more to get paid.

i am happy paypal is around to make my life a lot easier when its payday

I wonder that about that too, I'm not asking for free service. I also wonder why people bend over so easily, while frowning upon the less flexible.

« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2017, 04:33 »
0
Does anyone have a method of avoiding the appalling Paypal currency exchange rates? Some of my earnings from stock sales is in dollars, and Paypal will only let me withdraw in euros. And thus forcing me to accept the exchange rate from Paypal that is much worse than just about anywhere else.
It costs me hundreds of euros each year.

Probably your main currency is euro, I live in Bulgaria and somehow my main currency is usd and I just attached debit card with usd currency to paypal so I do not get charged for currency conversion. Although I get charged for the opposite, when I receive euro I need to withdraw in usd :D, so in the end it always costs me money.

Paypal told me I can only withdraw in USD when I attach an real bank account from the USA. I can open a USD bank account here in the Netherlands, but that won't work. (in fact, they will actually convert from USD to EUR back to USD again in this scenario! Paypal support told me.)
But there is no way for me to open a bank account in the USA (that I'm aware of)

« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2017, 04:36 »
0
That's really weird because I can withdraw in EUR or USD, whichever currency I have balance in.
Account was registered in Bulgaria, main currency is EUR.

« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2017, 04:38 »
0
That's really weird because I can withdraw in EUR or USD, whichever currency I have balance in.
Account was registered in Bulgaria, main currency is EUR.

How does this work, do you have a USD bank account?

« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2017, 04:43 »
0
The important thing is: When you can use the money, like buy milk, what currency is it in? The conversion happens somewhere and remember that the PayPal fees are HIDDEN, it doesn't say: look, here's the fee, they just give you a bad exchange rate.

« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2017, 04:46 »
+1
I don't have any good solution - but I do always try and leave a USD balance in Paypal account (my bank account is NOK) and whenever I need to buy photo gear, website fees, or other items, I try to purchase from a store that takes USD and paypal.  That way I can use my money and avoid the currency exchange.

« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2017, 04:53 »
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is it possible to have USD and Euro balance  in one account? so that there is no loss from conversion

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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2017, 05:24 »
0
I have USD, GBP and EUR balances in my one Paypal account. I can then convert them as and when necessary. I use a UK-issued Paypal Access card, so I have to convert to GBP before I can use it though.

« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2017, 05:41 »
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ok, thanks  :)

« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2017, 08:01 »
0
is it possible to have USD and Euro balance  in one account? so that there is no loss from conversion

It doesn't matter what currency your balance is in your PayPal account. You can have USD, EUR, and Imperial credits at the same time. The conversion happens when the money goes OUT to your standard local bank account.

« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2017, 08:02 »
0
I don't have any good solution - but I do always try and leave a USD balance in Paypal account (my bank account is NOK) and whenever I need to buy photo gear, website fees, or other items, I try to purchase from a store that takes USD and paypal.  That way I can use my money and avoid the currency exchange.

Yes, I believe this is the only way to get around currency conversion, but unfortunately it doesn't work for rent, pizza and beer...

It's not really convenient to buy camera gear from online US shops either if the same stuff is available locally. The prices are almost the same (often even cheaper) if they are business expenses, meaning no VAT and customs fees.

Ordering from dollar stores often means shipping + 10% customs for EU + VAT (25% or less depending on country).
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 08:05 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2017, 09:06 »
0
Probably the regulation is different in Bg, paypal has different policies with every country, Im in Indonesia now and I see paypal is totally different here.
I get internel error when I try to calculate withdrawal now, but I am almost sure that I withdraw usd and I dont get charged with currency convertion.
Probably your main currency is euro, I live in Bulgaria and somehow my main currency is usd and I just attached debit card with usd currency to paypal so I do not get charged for currency conversion. Although I get charged for the opposite, when I receive euro I need to withdraw in usd :D, so in the end it always costs me money.

I thought they stopped doing this. It doesn't matter if your card is in dollars if they see it's in Bulgaria.

Right now, $1 should equal 1.83 Bulgarian lev, what are you getting at PayPal if you withdraw $1 right now?

langstrup

« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2017, 09:06 »
+1
You need to get a bank account in USA. If the money goes to country with any other currency than US Dollars it will convert. Which is a ridicolous amount if you have a serious stock business. Ofcourse should a service not be free - But a price for a service can get to high right :)


So - you have to travel to USA, open a personal or business account, then get a currency account in your homeland bank. That way you can get a transfer done each month for as little as 15$ more or less :)


Thats the short version! It takes a lot of documentation to get business account, and it takes a proof of adresse in US to get a personal account.


Thats the only way to get pass the fee, because as Paypal says : Its not a fee, its a currency exchange rate ;)



« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2017, 09:10 »
0
I get internel error when I try to calculate withdrawal now, but I am almost sure that I withdraw usd and I dont get charged with currency convertion.

It's hidden as a really bad exchange rate, which translates into a 2.5% fee. The average exchange rate today should be around 1.83 levs per dollar.

« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2017, 09:17 »
0
Paypal doesn't use real time, so you can take advantage when your currency is falling a lot during the day but you still get the old (better) exchange rate. This way I sometimes end up paying only 1.6/1.8% instead of 2.5%. Other alternative is to spend directly in USD on websites, I often use paypal to pay for accommodation.

« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2017, 09:26 »
+1
I have a thai paypal and get paid in usd. I then opened a payoneer account with atm card. At same time they gave me Bank of america bank acc. and i nvr set foot in the US. Now i transfer my usd from thai paypal to BOM acc for no charge from paypal, and then take out thai currency with my payoneer atm card. The exchange rate on payoneer uses mastercard rates and is much better than paypals rates.

« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2017, 09:44 »
0
So my account in local bank is strictly in USD (I can set EUR if I want to but it's USD ONLY as it is) and is totally different from my account in domestic currency (RSD, Serbia) and I have that account tied with PayPal. You are all saying that PayPal will convert USD to RSD and then again from RSD to USD and then send transfer me the money in USD? Doesn't sound logical to me.

Sure I must convert USD to RSD between my accounts in local bank but that is fee-free with my bank.

langstrup

« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2017, 12:50 »
0
I have a thai paypal and get paid in usd. I then opened a payoneer account with atm card. At same time they gave me Bank of america bank acc. and i nvr set foot in the US. Now i transfer my usd from thai paypal to BOM acc for no charge from paypal, and then take out thai currency with my payoneer atm card. The exchange rate on payoneer uses mastercard rates and is much better than paypals rates.

Snedigt sren ;-)


That was clever :)

langstrup

« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2017, 13:05 »
0
I have a thai paypal and get paid in usd. I then opened a payoneer account with atm card. At same time they gave me Bank of america bank acc. and i nvr set foot in the US. Now i transfer my usd from thai paypal to BOM acc for no charge from paypal, and then take out thai currency with my payoneer atm card. The exchange rate on payoneer uses mastercard rates and is much better than paypals rates.

By the way, when was that? I was there mid december 2016, and around 1 of december they made a new law against terror end financial crime, so the possibility to get the bank account was way harder than just 3 months ago.

A buddy of mine did it in 2015, and he just walked in and got one in 10 minutes.

I spend almost 5 hours in a meeting documenting everything. The banker told me, that 3 weeks before she could just have opened it for me with no problems.


So maybe its not that easy anymore.

« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2017, 14:09 »
0
So my account in local bank is strictly in USD (I can set EUR if I want to but it's USD ONLY as it is) and is totally different from my account in domestic currency (RSD, Serbia) and I have that account tied with PayPal. You are all saying that PayPal will convert USD to RSD and then again from RSD to USD and then send transfer me the money in USD? Doesn't sound logical to me.

Sure I must convert USD to RSD between my accounts in local bank but that is fee-free with my bank.

Logical or not, PayPal won't send USD outside the country as far as I understand. Naturally, they want their juicy fee.

« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2017, 14:09 »
0
I spend almost 5 hours in a meeting documenting everything. The banker told me, that 3 weeks before she could just have opened it for me with no problems.


So maybe its not that easy anymore.

I think you can run into tax problems if you get big amounts of USD into a US bank account.

langstrup

« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2017, 15:18 »
0
I spend almost 5 hours in a meeting documenting everything. The banker told me, that 3 weeks before she could just have opened it for me with no problems.


So maybe its not that easy anymore.

I think you can run into tax problems if you get big amounts of USD into a US bank account.

No - You just have to fill out a W8-BEN-E ( Business tax form) at the bank. I live in Denmark, and we have a tax treaty with US, so as long as the TAX documents are filled out there is no problems. But otherwise! Certainly :)

We been thrue 4 "controllers" at the bank, whom all checked out the documents. They are very strict these days.

« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2017, 16:31 »
+1
The important thing is: When you can use the money, like buy milk, what currency is it in? The conversion happens somewhere and remember that the PayPal fees are HIDDEN, it doesn't say: look, here's the fee, they just give you a bad exchange rate.

PayPal fees are not hidden at all. ALL fees are in the T and C you signed for when opening your account. don't blame PayPal for your ignorance

« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2017, 16:42 »
0
PayPal fees are not hidden at all. ALL fees are in the T and C you signed for when opening your account. don't blame PayPal for your ignorance

Where did you dream up I was ignorant about the fees? Of course they are in the T&C since they have great lawyers, but they're hidden in a sneaky way at each withdrawal by being baked into the exchange rate.

What reason other than to sneak in high fees would there be to not just write out:

Currency conversion fee 2.5% = $xx.xx? Of course they're trying their best to hide it from the average customer.

They used to not even mention anything about a currency conversion fee, but they have changed it now, I'm sure due to complaints.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 16:47 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2017, 16:47 »
+1
its not sneaky and they re not hidden. all fees are listed, been like that for years,  just check which fees apply to you and you know your cost to use paypal.  the Internet is full of people too lazy to check, they rather complain and accuse paypal. clueless

« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2017, 16:50 »
+1
its not sneaky and they re not hidden. all fees are listed, been like that for years,  just check which fees apply to you and you know your cost to use paypal.  the Internet is full of people too lazy to check, they rather complain and accuse paypal. clueless

The fee is hidden upon each withdrawal. Of course all fees are listed in other places, but they try to hide it from the average customer upon withdrawal. I know it's 2.5%. You know it's 2.5%. But it's still sneaky.

Anyway, the main thing here is not that there ARE fees, or whether or not they're clearly visible - it's that the fee is currently 2.5%, which is quite high.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 16:53 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2017, 16:55 »
0
they are not hidden, 2.5% is the fee. Period . that's your cost. i think the fees are fair,  considering the service they provide

« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2017, 17:00 »
+1
The information you get is this: "Includes fees. (go search for a few minutes to find out what they are)".

The information you should be getting upon each withdrawal is this: "Currency conversion fee is 2.5% which equals xx dollars". People don't like seeing that it costs $125 to withdraw $5,000 so PP don't show it.

I'm sure you see the difference. To me, that is not a transparent way of showing the fee, meaning they are indeed doing their best to mask it.

If my bank is sent USD they charge a 0.5% conversion fee. Even 1% is perfectly reasonable but not 2.5%. That is a new camera every year in currency conversion fees...

« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2017, 17:35 »
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people may not like it,  but thats nit what they say,  they  say paypal is corrupt,  stealing,  hidden fees,  etc,  etc which is tinfoil hat rubbish

« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2017, 17:36 »
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by the way if there is one institution with untransparant fees its the banks!

« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2017, 20:40 »
0
So my account in local bank is strictly in USD (I can set EUR if I want to but it's USD ONLY as it is) and is totally different from my account in domestic currency (RSD, Serbia) and I have that account tied with PayPal. You are all saying that PayPal will convert USD to RSD and then again from RSD to USD and then send transfer me the money in USD? Doesn't sound logical to me.

Sure I must convert USD to RSD between my accounts in local bank but that is fee-free with my bank.

Logical or not, PayPal won't send USD outside the country as far as I understand. Naturally, they want their juicy fee.

But If they send me money in local currency it would bounce I guess since my account can accept anything but USD, or if my bank converts from local currency sent by PayPal before filling my account then I'd lose nothing since my bank ain't charging me for conversion. I'm still not sure any of this happens except when the bank account is set to receive EUR only.

« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2017, 01:13 »
0
I get internel error when I try to calculate withdrawal now, but I am almost sure that I withdraw usd and I dont get charged with currency convertion.

It's hidden as a really bad exchange rate, which translates into a 2.5% fee. The average exchange rate today should be around 1.83 levs per dollar.

But I withdraw 600$ usd and I pay the withdrawal fee which smth like 2.5 usd, and I get 600$ usd in my bank account/ debit card.

EDIT: Just withdrew 530 usd and I will update you when I receive it, but I make withdrawals monthly and I always receive my money in usd, always exactly the same ammount I withdraw.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 01:20 by nadalbg »

« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2017, 02:51 »
0
withdrawing money is free of charge

« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2017, 07:00 »
0
withdrawing money is free of charge

Where are you located? Please note that the entire population of the world does not live in your country. There are withdrawal fees. They exist. Not in the US. But they do exist. I thought you had read the entire T&C?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 07:03 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2017, 14:59 »
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yes,  I am in the US. i checked the tc,  but not really for zimbabwe or wherever. Europe most countries have no withdrawal fees either

« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2017, 04:44 »
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Thanks everyone for the replies!

Exchange rate to EUR is 3.5%. This means it costs $350 for every $10k, which is insane.

It's high enough that I will try to open a bank account in the USA if I happen to be there. It's not expensive enough to take the gamble of booking a flight, especially considering the difficulties of actually getting a bank account without have an actual address somewhere in the USA.

Noedelhap

  • www.colincramm.com

« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2017, 11:50 »
+1
The exchange rate from USD to EUR is indeed insane. The worst thing is that Paypal claims it's the 'current exchange rate', while it's the current exchange minus 2.5%. Sneaky.

I don't see any easy way to circumvent the bad rates though. Opening a US bank account seems too much of a hassle, and that isn't free either.

« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2017, 16:07 »
0
I always keep my money from stock photography in my paypal account, and when i need to pay something on ebay or where i can pay by paypal i pay from the balance...
I understand when are big amounts... you will need your money! :)

Here in Romania just one bank has a conversion fee, the rest doesn't have, so maybe in Europe you can find a bank that doesn't have any conversion fee in your country... i think it has to be... even if is a smaller bank, or one that just entered on the market (this ones have almost no commissions).

As i know for all the banks in Europe the main currency is Euro, so it is possible your bank will transform usd in euro and then back in USD. I had this problem once... but i made a complaint at the bank and they gave me the commissions back as i asked about this before making the account and they said that don't have this! and after i found a bank and made a card in $ and didn't had this change from $ to euro and back!

« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2017, 04:38 »
0
Lecaro, I can open a USD bank account right here where I live, but it's Paypal policy to only payout in currency local to where the bank account is situated.
The banks are not at fault here. They won't change USD to EUR, Paypal does that.

« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2017, 04:46 »
0
Lecaro, your remark on paying out to a credit card made me google this stuff again, I found this: https://jeangalea.com/changing-paypal-withdrawal-currency/
It's promising, I'll be digging into it.

« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2017, 06:16 »
0
I get internel error when I try to calculate withdrawal now, but I am almost sure that I withdraw usd and I dont get charged with currency convertion.

It's hidden as a really bad exchange rate, which translates into a 2.5% fee. The average exchange rate today should be around 1.83 levs per dollar.

But I withdraw 600$ usd and I pay the withdrawal fee which smth like 2.5 usd, and I get 600$ usd in my bank account/ debit card.

EDIT: Just withdrew 530 usd and I will update you when I receive it, but I make withdrawals monthly and I always receive my money in usd, always exactly the same ammount I withdraw.

I can confirm withdrawing 530 usd and receiving 530 usd in my debit card. So no money lost, no conversion.  Only the 2.5 usd fee is what I pay.
I dont know if its politics of paypal in my country.

« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2017, 13:01 »
+1
Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

yes, indeed, appalling -- in most of Europe, you get REAL forex rates for your foreign currency payments (Den Danske Bank, Creditanstalt Austria, Svenska Handelsbanken, Deutsche Postbank, Credit Agricole -- just to name a few). The typically anglo-saxon approach of greed and of ripping off the little guy makes Paypal seem "like other banks" in some places (UK, U. S. where no one has even heard about foreign currencies existing, pun intended)...

And what's that "great service" Paypal are providing, again?

In this time and age of Bitcoin, Litecoin, other Crypto currencies offering INSTANTENOUS and next-to-no-cost payments wordwide, who really needs Western Union, Paypal, or even the -- in fact -- slightly better Payoneer services?

It is easy to convert Paypal dollar (or any other) balances to bitcoins and on to a local currency using the right Bitcoin Exchange in your local country (local currency, bank account). You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

Better still would be some stock agency actually offering Bitcoin payments in the first places. Curious to see when that will finally happen.

Bitcoin, Be Your Own Bank -- in case you guys still haven't heard about it...!
« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 13:09 by Hi Cliff(s)! »

outoftheblue

« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2017, 13:19 »
+2
You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

paypal rates are a bit high, but it could be worse; most banks are not better; skrill is worse

May I say that I find meeting some stranger nerds in a starbucks more appalling and annoying (in a freetard way) than paying a commission?
If I have free time to spend, I'd rather meet friends at the pub than wasting my time that way.

« Last Edit: February 02, 2017, 13:21 by outoftheblue »

« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2017, 14:53 »
+1
It seems people are confusing Paypal with a charity get real.

« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2017, 16:17 »
+1
The important thing is: When you can use the money, like buy milk, what currency is it in? The conversion happens somewhere and remember that the PayPal fees are HIDDEN, it doesn't say: look, here's the fee, they just give you a bad exchange rate.

PayPal fees are not hidden at all. ALL fees are in the T and C you signed for when opening your account. don't blame PayPal for your ignorance

And where can you see the recipe for the single transactions? There is no recipe. Its totally intransparent like Istock.

Do you ever try to deduct the pp fees from tax?

« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2017, 17:10 »
0
At the moment there is no way to escape from PAYPAL  (USD->EUR) that will continue to get fatter and fatter through out our hard works.

The big problem is that there is no alternatives so IT RULES as IT LIKES...it can get our money as it likes.

« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2017, 17:39 »
0
Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

yes, indeed, appalling -- in most of Europe, you get REAL forex rates for your foreign currency payments (Den Danske Bank, Creditanstalt Austria, Svenska Handelsbanken, Deutsche Postbank, Credit Agricole -- just to name a few). The typically anglo-saxon approach of greed and of ripping off the little guy makes Paypal seem "like other banks" in some places (UK, U. S. where no one has even heard about foreign currencies existing, pun intended)...

And what's that "great service" Paypal are providing, again?

In this time and age of Bitcoin, Litecoin, other Crypto currencies offering INSTANTENOUS and next-to-no-cost payments wordwide, who really needs Western Union, Paypal, or even the -- in fact -- slightly better Payoneer services?

It is easy to convert Paypal dollar (or any other) balances to bitcoins and on to a local currency using the right Bitcoin Exchange in your local country (local currency, bank account). You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

Better still would be some stock agency actually offering Bitcoin payments in the first places. Curious to see when that will finally happen.

Bitcoin, Be Your Own Bank -- in case you guys still haven't heard about it...!
That sounds time consuming and risky to me I can't really get my head around it so I will stick to old fashioned currency. An article in the Financial Times says this "As a phenomenon bitcoin has all the attributes of a pyramid scheme, requiring a constant influx of converts to push up the price, based on the promise of its use by future converts. So the ultimate value for bitcoin will be the same as all pyramid schemes: zero."

« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2017, 18:18 »
0
I loathe paypal for their exorbitant fees.

They seem to charge exactly 3.6% to convert USD > CAD. Someone mentioned they aren't adjusting their rates in real time, so yeah, you could get a slightly better rate. I believe their 3.6% is to compensate for that difference.

No financial institution wouldn't charge a currency conversion rate. If you are getting 2.5%, I'd be happy with that. Credit cards usually charge 3%.

If you are converting USD > CAD at 3.6% and then CAD > USD at 3%, like if you are visiting USA or driving through south to Mexico, you're literally losing 6.6% on the exchange rate. Brutal. I've had it where I get paid in USD > CAD at 3.6%, convert that to Kenyan Schillings (KES), for example, and there they want KES > USD, so you're looking at 9.6%. Brutal. I know there are options out there, but these things take a lot of effort to set up.

On the other hand, if I can get a cheque, the bank gives me a 2% rate, so a lot better. Say you earned $100k / year, you could save $1500 that way.

Also, not sure about your individual countries, but you should be able to writeoff the conversion loss as 'banking fees' or something to that effect. Mind you, I'm no accountant, so don't take my word for it.

« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2017, 23:34 »
0
Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

yes, indeed, appalling -- in most of Europe, you get REAL forex rates for your foreign currency payments (Den Danske Bank, Creditanstalt Austria, Svenska Handelsbanken, Deutsche Postbank, Credit Agricole -- just to name a few). The typically anglo-saxon approach of greed and of ripping off the little guy makes Paypal seem "like other banks" in some places (UK, U. S. where no one has even heard about foreign currencies existing, pun intended)...

And what's that "great service" Paypal are providing, again?

In this time and age of Bitcoin, Litecoin, other Crypto currencies offering INSTANTENOUS and next-to-no-cost payments wordwide, who really needs Western Union, Paypal, or even the -- in fact -- slightly better Payoneer services?

It is easy to convert Paypal dollar (or any other) balances to bitcoins and on to a local currency using the right Bitcoin Exchange in your local country (local currency, bank account). You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

Better still would be some stock agency actually offering Bitcoin payments in the first places. Curious to see when that will finally happen.

Bitcoin, Be Your Own Bank -- in case you guys still haven't heard about it...!

Bitcoin price can be up and down, even for one day something like 100$ per bitcoin, I dont know if its positive or negative, but sometimes I receive money and I want to withdraw them instantly but its already less since the rate of btc has gone down :D. It's probably good for investors who want to wait and see and sell their btc when its up.

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« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2017, 04:43 »
0
Yeah, you make however much money during one month, and then when you get your bitcoin payment you might have lost 10% (which you're not going to like)... or you might have gained 10% (which Shutterstock isn't going to like).

« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2017, 09:13 »
0
Yes, the Bitcoin currency is way too volatile to be used as anything but instant payment. Monthly payments would have to go, and you would have to be paid directly for each image sale.

Agencies don't like that as holding on to millions of dollars each month before payment is financially rewarding.

« Reply #60 on: February 03, 2017, 12:53 »
0
I'm in Canada and have a US bank account in the US. I'm not active in microctock anymore but if you are still making a decent income it would be worth having. I pay 3$ fee per month (it might get waived for a certain balance). The account was set up while I was with RBC Canada a few years ago (I did not physically go to the US). The Paypal dollars stay in US dollars and I use them when I go to the US.

« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2017, 13:49 »
0
I'm in Canada and have a US bank account in the US. I'm not active in microctock anymore but if you are still making a decent income it would be worth having. I pay 3$ fee per month (it might get waived for a certain balance). The account was set up while I was with RBC Canada a few years ago (I did not physically go to the US). The Paypal dollars stay in US dollars and I use them when I go to the US.

Interesting for people who can benefit from that.

I used to get paid from a Canadian source and it took weeks for a check to clear. Might just have been my dumb bank. Canadian source said, oh no problem I'll send you Paypal instead. Never paid a fee of any sort.

US / Canada have some benefits that the OP and others don't. I wouldn't trust going to a Starbucks to sell Bitcoins as a good plan to avoid a tiny fee for conversion.

People who pay do have my sympathy, the UK charges me 20% taxes for receiving money in the US from a payment source. Haven't filled out the more than complicated forms that prove I'm already paying taxes here. That gets me angry and it's 20%!  >:(

« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2017, 22:57 »
0
The important thing is: When you can use the money, like buy milk, what currency is it in? The conversion happens somewhere and remember that the PayPal fees are HIDDEN, it doesn't say: look, here's the fee, they just give you a bad exchange rate.

PayPal fees are not hidden at all. ALL fees are in the T and C you signed for when opening your account. don't blame PayPal for your ignorance

And where can you see the recipe for the single transactions? There is no recipe. Its totally intransparent like Istock.

Do you ever try to deduct the pp fees from tax?

again people spouting stuff because they dont know how to use paypal. first of all, you need a paypal business account, because you are a business. and if you already have one, you have many options for reporting, including transaction reports, which will show you line for line everything that happened for each transaction, including your fees.

people just like to rant, leaving out all the facts

and yes, i have deducted my fees, its simple as 123 with paypal transaction reports.

« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2017, 23:00 »
0
ranplett, just close your paypal account and see how you get on getting paid online, surely there are many options to get paid at lower fees using only one payment processor for all your income streams.  right?

or is paypal holding you hostage and forces you to use their product?

« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2017, 23:39 »
0
ranplett, just close your paypal account and see how you get on getting paid online, surely there are many options to get paid at lower fees using only one payment processor for all your income streams.  right?

or is paypal holding you hostage and forces you to use their product?

Why would I close my Paypal account?

I can set up cheque payments with my three income generating accounts, but they take time to release the cheque.

I've only recently set myself up financially to be able to not get paid for the two months so I can wait for a cheque to arrive and save about 1.6%. That's a $1600 savings for every $100k earned. This is during an era where Getty Images had deferred payments by 7 weeks.

Mind you, in Canada, if one were in such a tax bracket, they'd pay about $640 back to the gov't in tax, but I'd rather have that option, or be able to reinvest it then giving it to Paypal.

If it was only 3%, I probably wouldn't care, but since they squeeze just a little more, I don't mind messing up my whole accounting system as a matter of principle.

« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2017, 00:17 »
0
you get paid 2 months late every time, missing out on interest, plus you have to cash the  checks as well, costing you time and probably petrol, plus you have to invest time to manage multiple payment streams, you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider.

i think if you properly calculate all the cost of receiving  checks, you will probably find that the cost are higher than using paypal,

not sure how that works for your principals, you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier,

quick calculation shows you would probably lose out on 0.25% interest alone over your 100K, and surely you can deduct the paypal fees from your earnings in canada as well.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 00:19 by Microstockphoto »

« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2017, 08:05 »
0
you get paid 2 months late every time, missing out on interest, plus you have to cash the  checks as well, costing you time and probably petrol, plus you have to invest time to manage multiple payment streams, you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider.

i think if you properly calculate all the cost of receiving  checks, you will probably find that the cost are higher than using paypal,

not sure how that works for your principals, you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier,

quick calculation shows you would probably lose out on 0.25% interest alone over your 100K, and surely you can deduct the paypal fees from your earnings in canada as well.
Yep I find PP hugely convenient and has always worked well for me for that level of service I think they "charge" a fair amount. Getting paid via PP is probably the least irksome thing in all this "industry"
 

« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2017, 03:03 »
0
I don't think many hundreds of dollars is a fair fee for a bank. My regular bank accounts are much less expensive.

« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2017, 03:18 »
0
I don't think many hundreds of dollars is a fair fee for a bank. My regular bank accounts are much less expensive.
Clearly you earn far more than me

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« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2017, 03:57 »
0
My regular bank accounts are much less expensive.

How much though? 'Much' less expensive on 2.5% would be pretty much close to zero.

« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2017, 04:15 »
0
My regular bank accounts are much less expensive.

How much though? 'Much' less expensive on 2.5% would be pretty much close to zero.
I suppose it depends on 2.5% of how much.....I guess PP is geared more to small players like me. If you are earning many thousands a month  its a different equation. If I were in that happy position I guess I might look more closely.

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« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2017, 04:44 »
0
Fair point. I've not checked for a while but I'm pretty sure the difference between my bank and PayPal was pretty minimal.

« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2017, 06:08 »
0
I don't think many hundreds of dollars is a fair fee for a bank. My regular bank accounts are much less expensive.
Clearly you earn far more than me
I'm talking per year, not per month.  ;) But most of my income is in dollars, that I have to convert to euros.

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« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2017, 06:23 »
0
Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2017, 06:41 »
0
Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

For each $10k it costs $250 in conversion fees. I think that is expensive. My regular bank takes 1%, or $100. Big difference. It's huge. Bad.

But I agree, the exchange rates have had a big (positive) impact on my earnings. 1 euro is $1.07 today but it was $1.31 five years ago.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 06:47 by ccbcc »

« Reply #75 on: February 06, 2017, 07:04 »
0
Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

Not really a relevant comparison... Pricing adjusts over time and if the dollar gets more expensive there might be fewer sales at the same price point as a result.

« Reply #76 on: February 06, 2017, 07:06 »
0
For each $10k it costs $250 in conversion fees. I think that is expensive. My regular bank takes 1%, or $100. Big difference. It's huge. Bad.

I fully agree. My bank takes 0.5% but I would be happy with 1% or 1.25%.

I really think 2.5% is OK up to a maximum amount though, say $50. It makes sense for small transactions.

 As you say, when you start earning a bit of money you're paying a new camera in conversion fees each year.

« Reply #77 on: February 06, 2017, 09:35 »
0
Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

For each $10k it costs $250 in conversion fees. I think that is expensive. My regular bank takes 1%, or $100. Big difference. It's huge. Bad.

But I agree, the exchange rates have had a big (positive) impact on my earnings. 1 euro is $1.07 today but it was $1.31 five years ago.
Its relative I suppose but $150 on $10,000 doesn't sound "huge" to me

« Reply #78 on: February 06, 2017, 10:01 »
0
Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

For each $10k it costs $250 in conversion fees. I think that is expensive. My regular bank takes 1%, or $100. Big difference. It's huge. Bad.

But I agree, the exchange rates have had a big (positive) impact on my earnings. 1 euro is $1.07 today but it was $1.31 five years ago.
Its relative I suppose but $150 on $10,000 doesn't sound "huge" to me
I like to see how you negotiate a mortgage for example.

« Reply #79 on: February 06, 2017, 10:59 »
0
Well if you're losing hundreds from the 2.5%, you're gaining thousands from the Euro being 1.05 to the Dollar rather than 1.25... swings and roundabouts!

For each $10k it costs $250 in conversion fees. I think that is expensive. My regular bank takes 1%, or $100. Big difference. It's huge. Bad.

But I agree, the exchange rates have had a big (positive) impact on my earnings. 1 euro is $1.07 today but it was $1.31 five years ago.
Its relative I suppose but $150 on $10,000 doesn't sound "huge" to me
I like to see how you negotiate a mortgage for example.
Poorly no doubt but you can "negotiate" as much as you like with Shutterstock but you will still get paid by Payment to Skrill/Moneybookers or Paypal.

« Reply #80 on: February 06, 2017, 12:14 »
+1
Paypal support told me today that the only way for me to get dollars is to open a bank account in the USA. Pretty much what we established here already.

« Reply #81 on: February 06, 2017, 16:56 »
+1
we're back to square one, ask shutterstock to lodge the money into your bank account. they cant. so you use paypal to get paid, great service, so you pay for that. dont understand the moaning. if a client tells you that your image is too expensive, they say, its digital, cost you nothing to shoot a photo, just your camera. what do you say? but but but my time, the editing, my electricity bill, the office rent,  etc etc all cost money. same difference.

« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2017, 04:05 »
+1
we're back to square one, ask shutterstock to lodge the money into your bank account. they cant. so you use paypal to get paid, great service, so you pay for that. dont understand the moaning. if a client tells you that your image is too expensive, they say, its digital, cost you nothing to shoot a photo, just your camera. what do you say? but but but my time, the editing, my electricity bill, the office rent,  etc etc all cost money. same difference.
Thank you for your constructive contribution to this discussion.

« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2017, 11:55 »
0
Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

yes, indeed, appalling -- in most of Europe, you get REAL forex rates for your foreign currency payments (Den Danske Bank, Creditanstalt Austria, Svenska Handelsbanken, Deutsche Postbank, Credit Agricole -- just to name a few). The typically anglo-saxon approach of greed and of ripping off the little guy makes Paypal seem "like other banks" in some places (UK, U. S. where no one has even heard about foreign currencies existing, pun intended)...

And what's that "great service" Paypal are providing, again?

In this time and age of Bitcoin, Litecoin, other Crypto currencies offering INSTANTENOUS and next-to-no-cost payments wordwide, who really needs Western Union, Paypal, or even the -- in fact -- slightly better Payoneer services?

It is easy to convert Paypal dollar (or any other) balances to bitcoins and on to a local currency using the right Bitcoin Exchange in your local country (local currency, bank account). You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

Better still would be some stock agency actually offering Bitcoin payments in the first places. Curious to see when that will finally happen.

Bitcoin, Be Your Own Bank -- in case you guys still haven't heard about it...!
That sounds time consuming and risky to me I can't really get my head around it so I will stick to old fashioned currency. An article in the Financial Times says this "As a phenomenon bitcoin has all the attributes of a pyramid scheme, requiring a constant influx of converts to push up the price, based on the promise of its use by future converts. So the ultimate value for bitcoin will be the same as all pyramid schemes: zero."

so...?

I mean, do you really "philosophize" over Bitcoin's distant future and whether or not it will have had "zero value" in a hundred years' time instead of using it NOW when it can have a lot of value by avoiding extortion by "Paypal who are not a charity"?

Bitcoin, by the way, is one (or, rather and more precisely, it's a non-profit org)...

In a hundred years' time, your dollars-in-hand will have equally zero value, by the way: the dollar has a track record of losing around 95% per one-hundred years, but you're still using it.

Think about it.

« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2017, 13:11 »
+1
Appalling?? It's only 2.5% no worse than banks or anyother financial outfit.

They have to make some money in order to offer a great service like that

yes, indeed, appalling -- in most of Europe, you get REAL forex rates for your foreign currency payments (Den Danske Bank, Creditanstalt Austria, Svenska Handelsbanken, Deutsche Postbank, Credit Agricole -- just to name a few). The typically anglo-saxon approach of greed and of ripping off the little guy makes Paypal seem "like other banks" in some places (UK, U. S. where no one has even heard about foreign currencies existing, pun intended)...

And what's that "great service" Paypal are providing, again?

In this time and age of Bitcoin, Litecoin, other Crypto currencies offering INSTANTENOUS and next-to-no-cost payments wordwide, who really needs Western Union, Paypal, or even the -- in fact -- slightly better Payoneer services?

It is easy to convert Paypal dollar (or any other) balances to bitcoins and on to a local currency using the right Bitcoin Exchange in your local country (local currency, bank account). You may even sell bitcoins over-the-counter and without needing wallet software when using localbitcoins.com in face-to-face transactions available in most cities that have Starbucks or Burger King. All of these options will save you all those -- truly -- annoying fees. (Feel free to PM me if you need URLs for a local exchange in certain countries, too wide a subject to include it here.)

Better still would be some stock agency actually offering Bitcoin payments in the first places. Curious to see when that will finally happen.

Bitcoin, Be Your Own Bank -- in case you guys still haven't heard about it...!
That sounds time consuming and risky to me I can't really get my head around it so I will stick to old fashioned currency. An article in the Financial Times says this "As a phenomenon bitcoin has all the attributes of a pyramid scheme, requiring a constant influx of converts to push up the price, based on the promise of its use by future converts. So the ultimate value for bitcoin will be the same as all pyramid schemes: zero."

so...?

I mean, do you really "philosophize" over Bitcoin's distant future and whether or not it will have had "zero value" in a hundred years' time instead of using it NOW when it can have a lot of value by avoiding extortion by "Paypal who are not a charity"?

Bitcoin, by the way, is one (or, rather and more precisely, it's a non-profit org)...

In a hundred years' time, your dollars-in-hand will have equally zero value, by the way: the dollar has a track record of losing around 95% per one-hundred years, but you're still using it.

Think about it.
It remains more risky than traditional curriences down 7% today and in the end NO ONE to support it. Do I have a choice about using national currency? You may do well if you are not risk averse I am though.

« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2017, 13:26 »
0
Exactly. There's a good reason dollars are used and not the Brazilian real, Kazakhstan tenge or Zambian kwacha...

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« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2017, 13:39 »
+1
In a hundred years' time, your dollars-in-hand will have equally zero value, by the way: the dollar has a track record of losing around 95% per one-hundred years, but you're still using it.

Well most people won't hold 100 dollars in their hand for 100 years. They'll spend it, or put it in a high interest account which will pretty much cancel out inflation. So your 100 dollars will only be worth zero if you're an idiot who happens to be immortal, and you have enough money that you don't actually need to spend it during those 100 years.

And your 95% claim (I would have thought it was about 80 to 85%, but I'll take your word for it) it only makes Bitcoin sound that great because Bitcoin hasn't been around for 100 years so you can't compare it. What will it be worth in 100 years? $100 per BTC, $10, $1, nothing?

I think it's more likely that a bitcoin will be worth $0 in 100 years, than $100 being worth $1.

« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2017, 14:22 »
+1
In a hundred years' time, your dollars-in-hand will have equally zero value, by the way: the dollar has a track record of losing around 95% per one-hundred years, but you're still using it.

Well most people won't hold 100 dollars in their hand for 100 years. They'll spend it, or put it in a high interest account which will pretty much cancel out inflation. So your 100 dollars will only be worth zero if you're an idiot who happens to be immortal, and you have enough money that you don't actually need to spend it during those 100 years.

And your 95% claim (I would have thought it was about 80 to 85%, but I'll take your word for it) it only makes Bitcoin sound that great because Bitcoin hasn't been around for 100 years so you can't compare it. What will it be worth in 100 years? $100 per BTC, $10, $1, nothing?

I think it's more likely that a bitcoin will be worth $0 in 100 years, than $100 being worth $1.
I'm pretty sure bitcoins wont exist in a 100 years I will come on here and apologize if they do!

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« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2017, 15:48 »
0
Yeah, I'd be surprised! Even if cryptocurrencies do become the future of currency, bitcoin would probably be a bit outdated in 100 years. Maybe a Bitcoin 4.0 or something, but I'd be very surprised if it still exists in its current incarnation. 

« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2017, 18:34 »
0
you get paid 2 months late every time, missing out on interest, plus you have to cash the  checks as well, costing you time and probably petrol, plus you have to invest time to manage multiple payment streams, you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider.

i think if you properly calculate all the cost of receiving  checks, you will probably find that the cost are higher than using paypal,

not sure how that works for your principals, you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier,

quick calculation shows you would probably lose out on 0.25% interest alone over your 100K, and surely you can deduct the paypal fees from your earnings in canada as well.

Oh sweet! Unsolicited financial advice on the internet. How did I get so lucky?

You don't get paid 2 months late every month, you are simply deferring payments. This can actually work in your favour if, say, your income was dropping in the next year (not unheard of in microstock terms). You could be deferring income to the next year when you will pay lower amount of income tax.

Cashing a cheque is easy. I often going to my bank anyway (I walk there, so no petrol or fuel costs), and these days you can send a photo of your cheque to the bank and they will process it. That takes no longer than processing a Paypal payment. It might even be faster because you don't have to look up rates to be sure Paypal is gouging you a full 4%!

"you will have more layers in your administration, all adding cost, which you dont consider."

Are you mental? Why would I not consider administrative costs? Well, to answer that "argument," no, I do factor in all admin costs, and they aren't that costly. I have 3 stock photo accounts. Two of which used to be funded through Paypal, and one via cheques. There is no real difference in time or energy or admin costs between the two, except for the much lower exchange rate that I get from processing cheques.

My bank actually offers me a +1.6% exchange rate, so that's a difference of 2%, or $2000 on every $100k earned, or 20k over a period of 10 years. It is VERY worth it for me, I just couldn't defer payments until recently.

"you want to incur higher cost, because paypal is too expensive, doesnt make sense. you cut of your nose to spite your face. paypal is a widely accepted payment processor, making my life and business so much easier"

Thanks for the advice, I'm glad that works for you, but stop projecting your ill informed advice towards me. Enjoy paying $1000's more to Paypal for a negligible convenience.

« Reply #90 on: February 16, 2017, 01:54 »
+1
have you read your reply? what a load of work to use a bank. my word,  walking to a bank, scanning and emailing photos,

deferring payments, but that doesn't add more work to your financial administration?

You said it would take 2 months to get a cheque, not me

anyway,  not my business, you are right


« Reply #91 on: February 18, 2017, 00:58 »
0
have you read your reply? what a load of work to use a bank. my word,  walking to a bank, scanning and emailing photos,

deferring payments, but that doesn't add more work to your financial administration?

You said it would take 2 months to get a cheque, not me

anyway,  not my business, you are right

It seems that you like to exaggerate to try and prove your point.

Opening up the banking app on your phone, is one click. Then you click the button to submit cheques, then you point your cellphone camera at the cheque and press the button. Then review it. Finally you press another button to submit it.

Brutally complicated, isn't it?

Paypal annoyances notwithstanding, that's not much action required to save, say, $100 on a $5000 cheque, or $200 on a $10,000 cheque.

Deferring payments isn't really a problem if you're financially stable. We already had to defer payments from iStock by 7 weeks. In the era of diminishing stock photo returns, it actually works out because (at least in my case) my income appeared lower and I paid less in tax. Not sure about anywhere else, but Canadians are already allowed to defer up to $20k / year, depending on income, and most people that are good with money will max out contributions to their deferred income account called RRSPs. I'm sure other countries have similar programs.

What I *really* said is that I was frustrated with PayPal's exorbitant rates and was looking at ways to avoid those losses. You came along with a bunch of reasons (and assumptions) why I should appreciate Paypal because: convenience. Most people couldn't defer payments if their life depended on it. So I don't expect them to really change their methods. I'm sure Paypal is aware of this and will probably end up raising their rates given how dependant people are on it. If I know anything about bankers, it's that they love making money off us plebs.

« Reply #92 on: February 18, 2017, 01:57 »
+1
in your previous comment you also said you were walking to the bank

and i didn't say paypal was only convenient

more selective reading

anyway,  you do what you do,  it seems to work for you 


« Reply #93 on: February 18, 2017, 04:46 »
0
I think the answer is that for the average earner then Paypal probably works well. If you are moving what to me are very large sums then a %age commission doesn't work. In the same way if I were staying abroad I would be happy to exchange say $30 at the hotel. I wouldn't dream of going to reception with $30k. I don't think paypal is especially greedy compared with any other "bank". So until my sales start to rocket when my genius is finally recognised I will stick with PP.

« Reply #94 on: February 18, 2017, 05:35 »
0
We just need a few more worthy competitors on the market and the rates would go down to 1% before you could say "currency conversion".

It's not like PayPal is a company struggling to stay afloat and 2.5% is the golden number to survive... They are very profitable and 2.5% is set because they dominate the market and try to get as much as they can, naturally.


 

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