MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Envato => PhotoDune => Topic started by: jacoblund on August 08, 2012, 07:06
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Hi,
After some time I'm getting used to PhotoDunes way of attaching modelreleases to images. It's a bit annoying though - especially when I use PicWorkFlow for distributing my images to the agencies.
My question is, how do you guys handle the model releases when uploading pictures with different people in different pictures? Lets say I have 10 images with person A and 10 images with person A and B. Should I upload the first 10 images of person A with the A's release and then process them? Or could I upload all the images at once and just attach model releases for both A and B.
I hope you understand my question.
Best regards,
Jacob
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Hi,
After some time I'm getting used to PhotoDunes way of attaching modelreleases to images. It's a bit annoying though - especially when I use PicWorkFlow for distributing my images to the agencies.
My question is, how do you guys handle the model releases when uploading pictures with different people in different pictures? Lets say I have 10 images with person A and 10 images with person A and B. Should I upload the first 10 images of person A with the A's release and then process them? Or could I upload all the images at once and just attach model releases for both A and B.
I hope you understand my question.
Best regards,
Jacob
PD is so jacked up that way. I upload person A first via FTP then go into their processing page and pull the images into PD. Then I go into FTP again and do person B. They have simply rejected too many images doing it any other way.
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The way I work it is a bit simpler. I upload all my images as normal and submit them. Then I get the rejection emails for the images without model releases. If you then go to Author's Dashboard and look in "Hidden", the rejected images are there. Click edit against each one, and you can first upload a model release in a zip file, but then use that same model release on all the others in the series. Add a note that you have added a model release, and resubmit. They go through OK after that.
Steve
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The way I work it is a bit simpler. I upload all my images as normal and submit them. Then I get the rejection emails for the images without model releases. If you then go to Author's Dashboard and look in "Hidden", the rejected images are there. Click edit against each one, and you can first upload a model release in a zip file, but then use that same model release on all the others in the series. Add a note that you have added a model release, and resubmit. They go through OK after that.
I do the same. I don't understand why Photodune doesn't have an easier way to do this like all other sites (except IS) have.
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I group images from a series together. Then I include all the model releases that are in any of the images in the series. All releases will be applied to all pictures whether or not a given person is in a particular photo. This was my understanding of how we are supposed to do it. If that's changed and images are being rejected for doing it that way, then my latest batches are in trouble...
I do agree that this is a really time-consuming and inconvenient way to deal with releases. Because it is so disruptive to my workflow, Photodune ends up getting my new images much later (even months) than the other sites.
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I've stopped to upload to photodune for this reason, we asked them many times to do something with model release upload and attachment. Also, the selling have really decreased, 70% for me...so i give up.
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I group images from a series together. Then I include all the model releases that are in any of the images in the series. All releases will be applied to all pictures whether or not a given person is in a particular photo. This was my understanding of how we are supposed to do it. If that's changed and images are being rejected for doing it that way, then my latest batches are in trouble...
I do agree that this is a really time-consuming and inconvenient way to deal with releases. Because it is so disruptive to my workflow, Photodune ends up getting my new images much later (even months) than the other sites.
Hi all :) This is actually the best way to handle releases at the moment. Technically you could add all your images to the photos folder then all related release in the model _releases folder and as Lisafx has said they will all be associated to all the photos. But the "perfect" way for us is for you to add your photos in batches or shoots to the photos directory, then add the related releases to the model_releases folder (all via ftp, not zipped)
On a related note, I am not a photographer really and would love to understand the frustrations with our process better. Is it more that it is just so different than the rest of the stock sites? Or is this process more time consuming based on tools you are using? Again, I am likely naive but to me it seems quite simple, and even less time consuming than attaching each release to each photo... Believe me, I know we have some work to do concerning improvements to our site, but for where we stand today, cluing me in on the core issues would be helpful :)
Thanks! - Josh
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Why not upload each release ONCE and you have to pay a reviewer ONCE to approve it. Keep them in a library and when we upload again it asks "upload new release" or "select release from library".
This way, when in the future PhotoDune realizes it actually should have paid more attention to the whining photographers and that they have clients who would liked to see the "portfolio" of a specific model you would have that ability. And while you are at it, have a "link releases" option so that updated releases can be associated with older photos of that model. The other agencies are so specific that they ask gender, age, ethnicity - so if you have a buyer that wants a Latino female construction worker age 40-50 they can find it.
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Why not upload each release ONCE and you have to pay a reviewer ONCE to approve it. Keep them in a library and when we upload again it asks "upload new release" or "select release from library".
This way, when in the future PhotoDune realizes it actually should have paid more attention to the whining photographers and that they have clients who would liked to see the "portfolio" of a specific model you would have that ability. And while you are at it, have a "link releases" option so that updated releases can be associated with older photos of that model. The other agencies are so specific that they ask gender, age, ethnicity - so if you have a buyer that wants a Latino female construction worker age 40-50 they can find it.
Thanks for the feedback :) I appreciate it and will certainly relay your insight when we discuss the future updates and changes to PhotoDune.
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Another piece of input. As you can imagine, no-one could make a living just uploading to Photodune, and so it is just one of a number of sites that I upload images to (currently around 20). The only sensible way I can do that is to use a service like Lightburner that acts as a distributor of my files - I ftp to them, and they ftp to the 20 sites I am supporting. I then visit the agencies at my leisure and complete whatever steps are necessary to put the files online. With smaller sites, those steps need to be simple and quick, otherwise it is not worth supporting the site. Hence, what arrives at Photodune is just a copy of whatever files I have uploaded elsewhere - no model releases at all.
All other sites then allow you to select the images that require a model release, and, normally in some grouped way, add a stored model release to them as part of the final process. My preference would be to see all new files, select the ones that need a specific release, and then be shown a list of my uploaded model releases so that I can attach the appropriate one. If a particular image needs two releases, then I select that one and add a second release in the same way.
Steve
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On a related note, I am not a photographer really and would love to understand the frustrations with our process better. Is it more that it is just so different than the rest of the stock sites? Or is this process more time consuming based on tools you are using? Again, I am likely naive but to me it seems quite simple, and even less time consuming than attaching each release to each photo... Believe me, I know we have some work to do concerning improvements to our site, but for where we stand today, cluing me in on the core issues would be helpful :)
Thanks! - Josh
Some good answers to this question above, but my issue is slightly different. I don't process or upload all images from the same shoot in one batch. I tend to process and upload batches that contain images from multiple shoots. I tend to squeeze a lot of different concepts into each shoot I do, so sometimes it can be more than a year before I finish uploading all the various images and concepts from a single shoot.
To each of the other sites, I will upload a batch of 20-30 a week with a diversity of models and subject matter. I can't upload that batch to Photodune because of the way your model releases are handled. Instead, I have to maintain a separate folder for PD, with separate folders in it for each model or group of models. When I edit 5 or 6 of a series, I then have to squirrel it away in the appropriate file and then wait, sometimes months, until I have enough of a batch to be worthwhile uploading to PhotoDune.
Although I love most things about Photodune, and appreciate the uniqueness of your site, the model release system just doesn't fit with my workflow of uploading a diversity of pictures in each batch.
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Following advice from Envato, I just upload a batch of photos whenever I have one. Then I upload whatever releases apply to any of the photos to the appropriate directory on the FTP site. I don't worry about associating releases with specific images, and they don't seem to mind. No trouble at all.
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I would agree with what Lisa says - I don't want to upload a lot of images of the same model at the same time - it is far better to stagger these out over time, but the photodune method of handling releases is very frustrating and prevents that uploading system. On other sites the releases are uploaded via a separate stream to a holding area. When you upload there is an option to link the image to a release held in your releases folder. A simple click and it is done. Any chance you could change the photodune system?
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I agree with Pixart. The easiest way is to let us upload model releases and you keep them in a library where we can attach them to our images. That would be easier for all of us (including PD).
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Why not upload each release ONCE and you have to pay a reviewer ONCE to approve it. Keep them in a library and when we upload again it asks "upload new release" or "select release from library".
I gave up trying to upload my port to this site as I couldn't work out how to upload the releases. If an MR library was introduced to the site then I would definitely have another go.
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Yes He have!!!
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I think its funny, considering all agencies that come here to clarify things, that they drop one comment and then leave the discussion again not clarifying anything. And they always respond to the simple stuff, never to the real frustrations people have.
Why not change the whole * release model to something simple and logic. Look at SS, 123, CanStockPhoto, FT and DP. Attaching a MR is fast easy and simple there.
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i have <100 files at PD because of this same issue. It took me ages to work it out the first time, and I was so put off I concentrated on the learning the idiosyncrasies of other agencies. I just don't get the point of uploading a batch of images with the MR when all my MR are sitting in the MR folder anyway. what's the difference? I've got a bunch of random images that have been sitting in Unfinished (or whatever it's called there) for months, because even though the MR is in the right folder, I can't find how to attach it.
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Hi there
To get that clear i posted a a very detailed question in their forum and requested a staff reply.
Until now i wait since two days - no answer.
Today i reminded them and i hope that they will answer in an appropriate manner and detailed so that we all get a reliable standard.
Here is the URL:
http://photodune.net/forums/thread/rules-for-ftp-mr-if-more-than-one-model/84291 (http://photodune.net/forums/thread/rules-for-ftp-mr-if-more-than-one-model/84291)
regards axel
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I've added a very gentle answer to your post, last year, I've already asked to photodune to do something about this sooooo stupid and weak procedure to upload releases, i think there are very busy to collect money and stop to improve the site, maybe next century...
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Its really easy to add releases. I just uploaded 50 images to PD using FTP ( which no longer works with your password, but you need to generate an API key for FTP). And in the folder model releases I dumped 6 model and property releases. Dumped my photos in the photos folder and thats it. Done. Now all you need to do is submit them on the site.
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It isn't hard, but it's highly inconvenient. I keep my model releases in a separate folder from my images. I use several properties over and over as "props". For all the other agencies but iStock and PhotoDune, I just pick the one I need from the stored list. With DeepMeta, iStock effectively has stored releases too, which leaves PhotoDune as the only agency where I have to find the right releases and remember to change folders in FTP and upload them.
It was fine as an initial makeshift solution, but nothing has improved in contributor tools in the last year, so I'm beginning to get the impression they're not going to bother fixing it.
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I haven't bothered updating my port with them, even for non-modelled pics I just put PD at the bottom of the list as "too hard". I know I'm of little importance (for now :) ) but Lisa has the same feelings...
It's great to have feedback from the company, but eek! not a photographer Josh?, I dearly hope you aren't a reviewer also. So if you are the tech side of the business, you are saying you haven't bothered to investigate how your competition works? you haven't even gone through an upload process elsewhere? Your comment that your site "is simple" is based on what experience?
How your site works (from our side) will also determine the quality of contributors you attract.
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Hi guys, I completely understand your frustration and wish I had some better news for you. But at this point, the only real option is to upload to PhotoDune under the current conditions or to hold off until a better system is in place. I do know that PhotoDune improvements are being discussed but since PhotoDune is not our only marketplace, it must share developer resources.
I have put together a short and simple demo of how photos should be added to PhotoDune and hope it will help out for those who choose to do so :)
So to recap the process, simply add all photos at once (no folders) to the /bulk_import/photos directory via FTP then add any and all associated release for those photos to the /bulk_import/photos/model_releases/ directory.
All releases will be associated to the images and you will need to do nothing more on your end for that. After this is complete, head over to your dashboard on PhotoDune and process theme from there.
Please let me know if you need any further assistance. [email protected]
Demo Link:
http://enva.to/VRE465 (http://enva.to/VRE465)
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Hi guys, I completely understand your frustration and wish I had some better news for you. But at this point, the only real option is to upload to PhotoDune under the current conditions or to hold off until a better system is in place. I do know that PhotoDune improvements are being discussed but since PhotoDune is not our only marketplace, it must share developer resources.
I have put together a short and simple demo of how photos should be added to PhotoDune and hope it will help out for those who choose to do so :)
So to recap the process, simply add all photos at once (no folders) to the /bulk_import/photos directory via FTP then add any and all associated release for those photos to the /bulk_import/photos/model_releases/ directory.
All releases will be associated to the images and you will need to do nothing more on your end for that. After this is complete, head over to your dashboard on PhotoDune and process theme from there.
Please let me know if you need any further assistance. [email protected]
Demo Link:
[url]http://enva.to/VRE465[/url] ([url]http://enva.to/VRE465[/url])
Hi Josh, thanks for chiming in. I saw the new tut on the site and it looks good.
Just one thing, it seems FTP has some issues. When I uploaded 48 images, only 40 showed up on the site. And then I uploaded 8 again, and only 6 of them showed up. It seems your FTP is not processing all images correctly. FYI.
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Hi guys, I completely understand your frustration and wish I had some better news for you. But at this point, the only real option is to upload to PhotoDune under the current conditions or to hold off until a better system is in place. I do know that PhotoDune improvements are being discussed but since PhotoDune is not our only marketplace, it must share developer resources.
I have put together a short and simple demo of how photos should be added to PhotoDune and hope it will help out for those who choose to do so :)
So to recap the process, simply add all photos at once (no folders) to the /bulk_import/photos directory via FTP then add any and all associated release for those photos to the /bulk_import/photos/model_releases/ directory.
All releases will be associated to the images and you will need to do nothing more on your end for that. After this is complete, head over to your dashboard on PhotoDune and process theme from there.
Please let me know if you need any further assistance. [email protected]
Demo Link:
[url]http://enva.to/VRE465[/url] ([url]http://enva.to/VRE465[/url])
That's excellent Josh. Thankyou I will now have another go at uploading. :D
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Hi guys, I completely understand your frustration and wish I had some better news for you. But at this point, the only real option is to upload to PhotoDune under the current conditions or to hold off until a better system is in place. I do know that PhotoDune improvements are being discussed but since PhotoDune is not our only marketplace, it must share developer resources.
I have put together a short and simple demo of how photos should be added to PhotoDune and hope it will help out for those who choose to do so :)
So to recap the process, simply add all photos at once (no folders) to the /bulk_import/photos directory via FTP then add any and all associated release for those photos to the /bulk_import/photos/model_releases/ directory.
All releases will be associated to the images and you will need to do nothing more on your end for that. After this is complete, head over to your dashboard on PhotoDune and process theme from there.
Please let me know if you need any further assistance. [email protected]
Demo Link:
[url]http://enva.to/VRE465[/url] ([url]http://enva.to/VRE465[/url])
Hi Josh, thanks for chiming in. I saw the new tut on the site and it looks good.
Just one thing, it seems FTP has some issues. When I uploaded 48 images, only 40 showed up on the site. And then I uploaded 8 again, and only 6 of them showed up. It seems your FTP is not processing all images correctly. FYI.
Hmmm that's not good. I am submitting a ticket now for this. I'm wondering if it is related to some of the other issues we have been experiencing... http://themeforest.net/forums/thread/update-on-payment-search-and-support-ticket-issues/84512 (http://themeforest.net/forums/thread/update-on-payment-search-and-support-ticket-issues/84512))
Thanks for the heads up :)
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You are welcome. Ow, a little addition, it also took ages to process the 48 files, not hours, but almost half an evening and night. Right now its processing one image, and its taking like 10 minutes already, chewing on the file :)
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You are welcome. Ow, a little addition, it also took ages to process the 48 files, not hours, but almost half an evening and night. Right now its processing one image, and its taking like 10 minutes already, chewing on the file :)
Hi Poncke, thanks again, I have seen this happen before myself and think what actually might be happening is not so much that it is still working on the files but rather something is sticking and the message that they are complete is not being displayed until the server refreshes. If you will check the ftp, you will see that your files are likely cleared off which tells me the images have been successfully moved over. This is frustrating though because you are unable to submit the files until it reports back...
I will submit a ticket for this and see if the devs can track down the issue.
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Just want to say that I really appreciate the fact that you are so on the ball about answering our questions here Josh.
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I've just spent 40 mins on this site trying to sort out files I found in the mysterious "hidden" tab.
I'd have a giant rant but I've already wasted too much of life on PD today.
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I've just spent 40 mins on this site trying to sort out files I found in the mysterious "hidden" tab.
I'd have a giant rant but I've already wasted too much of life on PD today.
Hi Gillian! So sorry about the trouble you are experiencing... Please feel free to hit me up with any questions you might have and I will do my best to help you out :)
[email protected]
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I've just spent 40 mins on this site trying to sort out files I found in the mysterious "hidden" tab.
I'd have a giant rant but I've already wasted too much of life on PD today.
I've spent also many times for uploading there, especially with MR.
Actually, if you have one photo with 3 peoples, another photo with 2 of them and a new one who isn't in the first photo, you have to proceed to 2 different uploads with the files and the releases !!! Medieval time strikes again!!!Many contributors ask them to do something for a while, but they don't care, they prefer passing time counting the bucks. And what about the extended license at a ridiculous price??
I've just sold again a 75$ single download on shutterstock, please uncheck extended licence on Photodune, or you're going to sink deeply in their sand.
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I've just spent 40 mins on this site trying to sort out files I found in the mysterious "hidden" tab.
I'd have a giant rant but I've already wasted too much of life on PD today.
I've spent also many times for uploading there, especially with MR.
Actually, if you have one photo with 3 peoples, another photo with 2 of them and a new one who isn't in the first photo, you have to proceed to 2 different uploads with the files and the releases !!! Medieval time strikes again!!!Many contributors ask them to do something for a while, but they don't care, they prefer passing time counting the bucks. And what about the extended license at a ridiculous price??
I've just sold again a 75$ single download on shutterstock, please uncheck extended licence on Photodune, or you're going to sink deeply in their sand.
Hi Smithore, to be clear in the scenario you mentioned you actually could simply upload all images at one time into the photos directory and any and all releases in the releases folder and that's it, all done :)
As to your assessment of Envato, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I can assure you Envato is not the monster you make it out to be. In fact, in all my years I have yet to find a company with the same commitment to it's community. I am with you and have said this many times here that PhotoDune needs some improvements particularly with it's upload/release system and though it is on the list, our list is pretty big at the moment and because we are more than just PhotoDune, we must allocate resources where most needed. That said, I am committed to anyone here who would like personal one on one help with any issues you might have with PhotoDune (or any of our marketplaces)
[email protected]
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It took me ages to work out how to upload the releases to photodune but now that I have worked it out I prefer the system to most sites way of doing it. No having to go back in and attatch releases individually. It can be a real pain when you have a group model session where they don't all appear in every photo and this system saves a lot of work in that type of session.
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It took me ages to work out how to upload the releases to photodune but now that I have worked it out I prefer the system to most sites way of doing it. No having to go back in and attatch releases individually. It can be a real pain when you have a group model session where they don't all appear in every photo and this system saves a lot of work in that type of session.
Agreed - actually of all the release systems out there I'd say PhotoDune's was the easiest and best. It requires uploading in batches sorted by shoot but really, that isn't a big deal even when my images aren't sorted that way to begin with.
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It took me ages to work out how to upload the releases to photodune but now that I have worked it out I prefer the system to most sites way of doing it. No having to go back in and attatch releases individually. It can be a real pain when you have a group model session where they don't all appear in every photo and this system saves a lot of work in that type of session.
Agreed - actually of all the release systems out there I'd say PhotoDune's was the easiest and best. It requires uploading in batches sorted by shoot but really, that isn't a big deal even when my images aren't sorted that way to begin with.
As frustrating as it's been in the early stages on PD, a little discipline to batch upload makes it pretty darn easy once you get the hang of it. In fact, because of PD I now have new folders that separate my models and their model releases into their own directories. Makes the whole management of my releases easy. I just wish their site, once you've uploaded, wouldn't twirl for hours on end while you wait to process your images for submission....if all I am doing is waiting for them to come up so I can manually click submit, why do we have to do that at all? Why can't PD just pull the images into review queue since you're not really doing anything to the images anyway?
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Hi Smithore, to be clear in the scenario you mentioned you actually could simply upload all images at one time into the photos directory and any and all releases in the releases folder and that's it, all done
Thank you joshsprague, i will try it!
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It took me ages to work out how to upload the releases to photodune but now that I have worked it out I prefer the system to most sites way of doing it. No having to go back in and attatch releases individually. It can be a real pain when you have a group model session where they don't all appear in every photo and this system saves a lot of work in that type of session.
Agreed - actually of all the release systems out there I'd say PhotoDune's was the easiest and best. It requires uploading in batches sorted by shoot but really, that isn't a big deal even when my images aren't sorted that way to begin with.
As frustrating as it's been in the early stages on PD, a little discipline to batch upload makes it pretty darn easy once you get the hang of it. In fact, because of PD I now have new folders that separate my models and their model releases into their own directories. Makes the whole management of my releases easy. I just wish their site, once you've uploaded, wouldn't twirl for hours on end while you wait to process your images for submission....if all I am doing is waiting for them to come up so I can manually click submit, why do we have to do that at all? Why can't PD just pull the images into review queue since you're not really doing anything to the images anyway?
Ahh yes... That is indeed no fun. You raise a very good question and I will tell you what I know. when you hit the process button, PD is grabbing the images from the ftp directory and reading the IPTC data from each. If all is well, you then need to submit them for review and if there are items that require attention you can then correct them and submit.
Now it does make sense to me though that items not needing correction could be submitted for review immediately leaving only the items that have errors or are missing data. This would indeed save a load of time especially when we can only submit 40 at one time :)
I will talk to my team about this and see what it would take to do something like that even if it was a check box upon hitting process that says something like "submit files immediately for review?"
Thanks to everyone who has stuck with us warts and all!
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Hi Smithore, to be clear in the scenario you mentioned you actually could simply upload all images at one time into the photos directory and any and all releases in the releases folder and that's it, all done
Thank you joshsprague, i will try it!
Good to hear Smithore! You have some really great images and we would benefit from your portfolio for sure :) Please hit me up if you run into any snags or are unclear on anything moving forward.