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Author Topic: Changes coming to Elements bonus payments  (Read 1993 times)

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dpimborough

« on: July 01, 2019, 02:55 »
0
Had this email today:

"Changes coming to Elements bonus payments

Hi

Were getting in touch today to let you know about some important upcoming changes to the Elements contributor bonus.

As Envato Elements continues to grow, we believe there is an opportunity to change the way weve been sharing bonus payments to authors to more closely reflect the value of content to our subscribers.

At present, all authors with at least one published item currently share equally each month in the available contributor bonus pool, irrespective of how often they upload or how popular their content is with subscribers.

We want to make this fairer so we are moving to a bonus program that introduces proportionality to the calculation of the bonus payment, as well as minimum eligibility criteria, which you can read more about in this help centre article.

Changes will start taking place gradually over the next few months. You can read further details on the changes and join the discussion in our forum post.

Please note: If you cant access the forum post please fill in this short form and access to the Elements forum will be provided.

Thanks,

The Envato Team

Link to the article giving the contribution levels

https://help.author.envato.com/hc/en-us/articles/360029938391

I knew it wouldn't be long before they started ~ of course its so difficult getting anything accepted these days that I'm sure most contributors will have problems achieving these targets :(


« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2019, 04:28 »
+2
---messed up an edit---
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 02:48 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2019, 10:00 »
+1
I knew it wouldn't be long before they started ~ of course its so difficult getting anything accepted these days that I'm sure most contributors will have problems achieving these targets :(

As people have mentioned and also confirmed on that forum, since the bonus will be proportionate to sales in comparison to everyone (Wordpress templates, etc.), someone selling photos is not likely to get much of a bonus anyway (maybe $10?), even if you sell quite a few images.

Wordpress authors will likely get a nice boost up to $1,000 or so.

Probably more fair, but the nice ride for authors in small categories with bonuses larger than actual sales is over.

Bad news again. Are we (the photographers and videographers) guilty for the fact that in Elements the Wordpress themes are more sellable? No way to compare completely different products and markets! And even more to put them in competition for bonus.

I like the idea, but to be for each media type!!!!!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 10:04 by Deyan Georgiev »

« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2019, 10:13 »
+1
And even more to put them in competition for bonus.

Well, the customers pay for all of that so it's more fair.

Video and photo contributors will earn less, but it's more fair, even if we don't like it. :)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 10:15 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2019, 13:44 »
+1
Authors must meet the minimum activity requirements for at least one item type to be eligible.
But how can I have activity if the upload process for me, as a photographer, is off ?
 :o

joshsprague

  • I work at Envato! How can I help?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2019, 19:46 »
0
Authors must meet the minimum activity requirements for at least one item type to be eligible.
But how can I have activity if the upload process for me, as a photographer, is off ?
 :o

Hows that? Are you a photo author on Elements at the moment?  If so, you should have photo submission access for sure.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 00:51 »
0
I'm not sure if the WordPress authors are going to make loads more money like everyone seems to be predicting. Yes, a theme counts for 9 points and a video counts for 3... but it all depends on what people are downloading. So they may get a higher percentage split per download, but if somebody needs one video-based Wordpress theme and 20 videos to go on the site, then a bigger share is going to the video side of things rather than the theme side of things.

As for the 'boost up to $1000 or so', that would mean a total bonus of around $1300, as the average bonus currently is about $300. It's far too early for me to do anything more than rudimentary math... but I know that for 50% of contributors to now get $600, then the other 50% need to get $0. Anyone know what percentage that needs to be for them to get $1300? Not sure if you can figure it out without contributor numbers... my head hurt. Anyway, I can't see that happening unless there's a bunch of people who are only downloading WP themes and nothing else.   

I mean, people usually need lots of images, videos and graphics... they don't usually need dozens of WP templates every month. Who knows! My point is, it's too early to say and virtually impossible to predict at this stage. Time will tell!   

« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2019, 04:46 »
0
I'm not sure if the WordPress authors are going to make loads more money like everyone seems to be predicting. Yes, a theme counts for 9 points and a video counts for 3... but it all depends on what people are downloading. So they may get a higher percentage split per download, but if somebody needs one video-based Wordpress theme and 20 videos to go on the site, then a bigger share is going to the video side of things rather than the theme side of things.

As for the 'boost up to $1000 or so', that would mean a total bonus of around $1300, as the average bonus currently is about $300. It's far too early for me to do anything more than rudimentary math... but I know that for 50% of contributors to now get $600, then the other 50% need to get $0. Anyone know what percentage that needs to be for them to get $1300? Not sure if you can figure it out without contributor numbers... my head hurt. Anyway, I can't see that happening unless there's a bunch of people who are only downloading WP themes and nothing else.   

I mean, people usually need lots of images, videos and graphics... they don't usually need dozens of WP templates every month. Who knows! My point is, it's too early to say and virtually impossible to predict at this stage. Time will tell!

Of course it's impossible to predict (without access to numbers), but isn't it fun to speculate? ;)

I'd rather prepare mentally for a pay cut and be pleasantly surprised, than the other way around. But that's just me.

There are currently around 1,600 Elements authors, so let's say 1,500 shared the last bonus.

That would put the bonus pool at roughly $450,000 (out of $900,000 total unused subscriber fees).

The average number of authors in each of the 14 main categories in the Elements menu would be 107, and an educated guess would be that there are many more Motion graphics/Stock footage authors than WP authors, but that could be wrong. Of course, there is some crossover with authors in multiple categories, but roughly. :)

Anyway, my first thoughts were that not many would want to miss the bonus, thus trying their best to meet the minimum requirements, but maybe there are many inactive authors who won't upload enough?

That would of course change everything, if only 1,000 of the 1,600 now shared the bonus.

---

And by the way, I believe most WP buyers don't buy the themes for themselves - they buy them for clients, so they might buy several per week. And I don't think too many corporate website makers suddenly need a bunch of space videos. Different people.

If marketplace numbers are anything to go by (which they might not be, Elements might have completely different customer behavior), both users and item downloads are much, much higher at ThemeForest, and specifically the Wordpress section, than any kind of video. If WP buyers needed 20 videos per theme sales at VH would be astronomic. But they're not.

Judging by the enormous $900,000 unused subscriber fee pool, I think it's safe to assume that most customers actually only download stuff they need, when they need it. Not a bunch of things just for fun, because they can.

Furthermore, I think it is much more likely for a customer needing a WB template to only download that, than a customer only needing one, or a few, video(s). This means that WP earnings are more likely to be even higher, as the point value is determined by all the usage from one customer account.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 05:01 by increasingdifficulty »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 12:45 »
+1
I'd be surprised if many corporate website makers are using Elements for their content... seeing as there's no support included. I have an Elements subscription but I bought my last Wordpress theme from Themeforest. Didn't want to risk it if I need support. And if I was making something for a client, I definitely wouldn't want to risk it! Sure, others might look at it differently though!

« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2019, 13:08 »
0
I'd be surprised if many corporate website makers are using Elements for their content... seeing as there's no support included. I have an Elements subscription but I bought my last Wordpress theme from Themeforest. Didn't want to risk it if I need support. And if I was making something for a client, I definitely wouldn't want to risk it! Sure, others might look at it differently though!

Haha, my first thought was the exact opposite. That inexperienced personal buyers would need the support, but someone who buys themes and makes websites for clients would know their way around Wordpress (and probably even how to make their own themes) and therefore wouldn't likely need support, and could pocket more money for themselves.

Anyway, we could guess all day, which is fun, but surely they wouldn't make the change if they didn't feel that way too much bonus $$$ were going to the wrong authors.

So, many will likely make substantially less, and others substantially more. The question is who? I hope not me... ;)

dpimborough

« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2019, 05:27 »
+1
Well thanks Envato you cut the bonus by 90% from July's earnings so instead of close to $270 its now less than $10

You reject 90% of my submissions for no real reason while taking large numbers of similars from your pet favorite photographers and now I make next to nothing.

Sales revenue is ridiculous with some images making $0.00 !!

It's a freaking guessing game trying to figure out what they want.

I'll not be uploading anything at all to this outfit I'm sick of them.

Good bye
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 05:56 by Sammy the Cat »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2019, 06:09 »
0
So before your item earnings were about $20 to $30, and you were getting a $200 to $300 bonus on top of that? I mean, there does seem to be a slight imbalance there, wouldn't you say?

If your item earnings were $2500 and you were getting a $200 to $300 bonus on top of that before... and due to the change you were now getting an $1000 bonus (which is what it would now be)... would you still be complaining?

dpimborough

« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2019, 08:41 »
0
So before your item earnings were about $20 to $30, and you were getting a $200 to $300 bonus on top of that? I mean, there does seem to be a slight imbalance there, wouldn't you say?

If your item earnings were $2500 and you were getting a $200 to $300 bonus on top of that before... and due to the change you were now getting an $1000 bonus (which is what it would now be)... would you still be complaining?

Quite right the earnings were poor it was only the bonus that made it worthwhile
and after all it was Enato's idea, they created it.

They didn't obviously think this thru when they introduced the bonus scheme.

Am I complaining? You betcha bottom dollar, its 90% plus reduction in income.

Your argument about getting a $1000 bonus is a non sequitor as they have not increased the bonus at all




« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 08:45 by Sammy the Cat »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2019, 09:56 »
0
Did you not read the announcement? They've altered the bonus calculation so it aligns with your earnings... so if you make a lot of money you get a big bonus, if you don't you get a small bonus. This month it worked out to around 41% of your item earnings... so if you made less than around $650 in item earnings, then your bonus went down... if you made more than around $650 in item earnings then your bonus went up. 

dpimborough

« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2019, 14:21 »
0
Did you not read the announcement? They've altered the bonus calculation so it aligns with your earnings... so if you make a lot of money you get a big bonus, if you don't you get a small bonus. This month it worked out to around 41% of your item earnings... so if you made less than around $650 in item earnings, then your bonus went down... if you made more than around $650 in item earnings then your bonus went up.

Yes I read their opaque pronouncements and you know what I'm none the wiser as to what they were yakking about.

All I care is that $250 plus turned in jack sh-it over night and the average contributor stands a poor chance of ever getting in excess of $650 in a month especially as they set the prices (giving stuff away at $0.00 to $0.01) 





SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2019, 14:35 »
0
If you run the numbers... you'll see that the average contributor makes exactly $650 a month in item earnings!

« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2019, 16:21 »
0
My bonus went down this past month, but overall still have no complaints. I make more per image per month with them than any other site.

« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2019, 02:37 »
0
If you run the numbers... you'll see that the average contributor makes exactly $650 a month in item earnings!

...assuming the pool was the same, but roughly yes! :) That is actually quite encouraging.

My bonus went down a bit, but not bad.

Making assumptions about other people's earnings based on one's own usually isn't too useful...

« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2019, 02:44 »
0
someone selling photos is not likely to get much of a bonus anyway (maybe $10?), even if you sell quite a few images.

I guess my prediction was pretty good. :)

Am I complaining? You betcha bottom dollar, its 90% plus reduction in income.

Your argument about getting a $1000 bonus is a non sequitor as they have not increased the bonus at all

Or, looking at it from a more logical point of view, you should be happy you got $1,500+ or so from other contributors who sold much more than you...

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2019, 03:04 »
0
If you run the numbers... you'll see that the average contributor makes exactly $650 a month in item earnings!

...assuming the pool was the same, but roughly yes! :) That is actually quite encouraging.

My bonus went down a bit, but not bad.

Making assumptions about other people's earnings based on one's own usually isn't too useful...

Yeah, mine went down a bit too, but was expected. I'm hoping a bunch of people don't meet the bonus eligibility criteria when they start that in November... more money for the rest of us!


 

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