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Author Topic: How can i isolate objects on white or any other color??  (Read 13563 times)

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« on: January 13, 2008, 05:40 »
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hii all of u experts ,

need ur help to isolate objects on plain background (even if i already took the shot)

Karim Farah


« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2008, 06:42 »
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open image in photoshop or similar

zoom to 200%
use the lasoo tool and select all the way around the object
contract selection 1 pixel
smooth selection 1 pixel
blur selection 1 pixel
.. then paint everything not selection white.

« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2008, 07:05 »
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thanx a lot Leaf i ll try this......

« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2008, 18:06 »
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Leaf. I prefer to use a clipping path around the object. the designers seem to like this.


« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2008, 18:53 »
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yeah, that works too, but you need to make the background white even if there is a clipping path.  Once the object is selected it is easy to turn the selection into a clipping path..... or am i misunderstanding what you are saying?

« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2008, 18:59 »
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Leaf,

exactly how a selection made not by pen tool can be turned to clipping path?

vphoto

« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2008, 22:57 »
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Thanks Karim for asking, and thanks leaf for what seems to be a pretty straightforward thechnique. I will definitely give this method a try.

Cheers

Pierre

« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2008, 23:14 »
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I use two different techniques depending on the photo.

Technique #1:
1) Shoot on white background.
2) In the layers window there is a half black, half white circle. Click on it, then levels. (If the layers window is not visible click Window on the top then select layers.)
3) When the levels adjustment window pops up click on the far right dropper (the set white point button).
4) Then click on the white areas to find a level that makes the background (255,255,255) in most places and yet has the object properly exposed.

Techinique #2:
If technique #1 won't work then I use the pen tool to cut out the object.
Here is a good video on the pen tool:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGVsn-X2GxI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGVsn-X2GxI</a>


Edit: If someone can use the lasso well enough to actually pass inspection then I'm very envious because I wouldn't be able to trace with lasso well enough.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 23:19 by yingyang0 »

« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2008, 23:57 »
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Leaf,

exactly how a selection made not by pen tool can be turned to clipping path?

vphoto

In the path window there's a symbol down on the right with two segments making a circle. Pressing it and your selection is transformed in a clipping path.

I don't use lasso but often I can use the magic wand if I exposed properly, then I fine tune the resulting path by hand.

« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2008, 23:57 »
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Make sure you have a bald model. Or make her/him wear a cap. Isolating hair on a non-totally white background is an utter mess  ;D
The fastest and cleanest way to go is shooting on an overexposed white background, certainly around the hair area.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 23:59 by FlemishDreams »

« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 03:19 »
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Edit: If someone can use the lasso well enough to actually pass inspection then I'm very envious because I wouldn't be able to trace with lasso well enough.

I use the lasso tool, but the one where it draws a straight line.  i zoom in to 200% and click my way around the object.  It works quite well.

« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2008, 06:31 »
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Edit: If someone can use the lasso well enough to actually pass inspection then I'm very envious because I wouldn't be able to trace with lasso well enough.

I use the lasso tool, but the one where it draws a straight line.  i zoom in to 200% and click my way around the object.  It works quite well.

I used once that method too but then I realized that it's exactly as time consuming than using the pen without the advantages of being able to modify it later easily and to have nice cut rounded edges.
Try the pen, you won't come back to the straight lasso.

« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2008, 08:59 »
0


Edit: If someone can use the lasso well enough to actually pass inspection then I'm very envious because I wouldn't be able to trace with lasso well enough.

I use the lasso tool, but the one where it draws a straight line.  i zoom in to 200% and click my way around the object.  It works quite well.

I used once that method too but then I realized that it's exactly as time consuming than using the pen without the advantages of being able to modify it later easily and to have nice cut rounded edges.
Try the pen, you won't come back to the straight lasso.

yeah, you may be right there.

« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2008, 09:27 »
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ale1969 makes an excellent point about the pen tool.  Being able to go back and tweak the selection made all the difference in the world when I began using it.  Especially since it takes the same amount of effort.  I highly recommend it.

« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2008, 09:32 »
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well you can easily tweak the selection if you use the lasoo tool, but he may have a point with the rounded edges.

« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2008, 11:11 »
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well you can easily tweak the selection if you use the lasoo tool, but he may have a point with the rounded edges.

I don't want to sound too patronizing, my excuses in advance, but to modify the lasso selection you have to redraw a small or large area, with a path made with the pen tool you can go away simply moving a couple of points or some curve handles.

The list of the advantages can go on and on, you can export the path in illustrator, you can create selections from the path with the desired feather keeping the original untouched and without using alpha channels to save selections but the biggest one is that the path can be saved into JPGs while selections can't.

« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2008, 03:49 »
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good day all,

seems to be very hard and time consuming to use the pen tool in photoshop especially when u want to isolate a flower or any object have many details ... there is must another way

Karim farah

« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2008, 03:57 »
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unless it is magically one of those 'perfect' examples which is separated from it's background by color, or something the only way to do it is manually.... ie with the pen tool or selection tool.

Even if it is somewhat easy to do with an 'automatic' method, you still have to touch the selection up quite a bit so it is almost always quickest to do it with the pen tool.  And yes it is quite time consuming.

« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2008, 04:36 »
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...you can export the path in illustrator, ...

I've tried this several times, but always ended up with a blank document in Illustrator. Is there a trick to this? (Sorry to get off topic, but I never was able to figure this out)

« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2008, 19:01 »
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Lasso is an extremely weak tool for isolating objects, not as versatile as a pen tool. Nobody said using pen tool to isolate objects over compex background wasn't easy - it does take time! If your objects are on monotone, light background (gray, etc), you can burn out the background without lasso or any other selection tools using levels + dodging...

I have tutorials on isolation on my website: http://www.chasingmoments.com/Tutorials.html   You should check out "the basics" of isolation


« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2008, 19:03 »
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good day all,

seems to be very hard and time consuming to use the pen tool in photoshop especially when u want to isolate a flower or any object have many details ... there is must another way

Karim farah

Are you looking for an effective way to isolate or for an easy one? Gee.... learn how to use the pen tool, practice, practice practice, and it'd be the best thing you'll do for yourself as an artist ! :)

Remember, pen tool is the best option only if your bg is busy... leaves, grass, whatever. If you have a monotone bg - use levels, dodging, painting over, eraser. Wand tool would also work. If you do have a complex background and you want to isolate - go with pen tool, trust me.

« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2008, 07:22 »
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Thanx chasingmoments for participating in the thread

but i want to know ur opinion in using the extract option in photoshop which i fount a clip for it in youtube....

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y13QRSIyaJA" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y13QRSIyaJA</a>


thnx in advance

Karim farah

« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2008, 10:47 »
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Thanx chasingmoments for participating in the thread

but i want to know ur opinion in using the extract option in photoshop which i fount a clip for it in youtube....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y13QRSIyaJA

thnx in advance

Karim farah


Karim,

Quality: I have tested the extraction filter in PS, and never found it adequate. It leaves jagged, rough edges, it leaves parts of the background and it frequently rippes parts of the foreground out. You always have to clean up with other tools, in fact, for selecting and removing the background I'd alwasy prefer the wand tool over the extraction tool. It is also obvious from your example: parts of the image were ripped out by the extraction tool, and most of the time you don't have the luxury of just erasing !!! your main subject matter (as you did on the guy's back with pants and shirt). I would also really like to see 100% zooms of different parts of your isolation as I am sure they'd have rough edges.

Time wise: You make a good effort with this tutorial, but in the 11 minutes that it took you to isolate this guy I would have done a much more precise job with a pen tool with two of such images.

Verdict: you make so much good effort to learn isolation! And you've already invested so much time in understanding it, learning about it, etc. Use your time wisely and go with the pen tool! Seems like you have an understanding of other tools, if you are versatile with the pen tool you'll be able to isolate subjects like in your example in under five minutes.

Best,

Olga

« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2008, 12:12 »
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Thanx chasingmoments for participating in the thread

but i want to know ur opinion in using the extract option in photoshop which i fount a clip for it in youtube....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y13QRSIyaJA

thnx in advance

Karim farah


Karim,

Quality: I have tested the extraction filter in PS, and never found it adequate. It leaves jagged, rough edges, it leaves parts of the background and it frequently rippes parts of the foreground out. You always have to clean up with other tools, in fact, for selecting and removing the background I'd alwasy prefer the wand tool over the extraction tool. It is also obvious from your example: parts of the image were ripped out by the extraction tool, and most of the time you don't have the luxury of just erasing !!! your main subject matter (as you did on the guy's back with pants and shirt). I would also really like to see 100% zooms of different parts of your isolation as I am sure they'd have rough edges.

Time wise: You make a good effort with this tutorial, but in the 11 minutes that it took you to isolate this guy I would have done a much more precise job with a pen tool with two of such images.

Verdict: you make so much good effort to learn isolation! And you've already invested so much time in understanding it, learning about it, etc. Use your time wisely and go with the pen tool! Seems like you have an understanding of other tools, if you are versatile with the pen tool you'll be able to isolate subjects like in your example in under five minutes.

Best,

Olga



thanx pretty olga .......

first its not my tutorial ...i search for this type of tips on youtube

second i will look at the  tutorial u sent on the thread i wish i can have ur perfection in isolation with the pen tool

karim farah

« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2008, 12:48 »
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Magic Extractor in Photoshop Elements 6.0 works pretty good for starters. Sometimes its good enough to work by itself if the background isn't too complex.

Let me know if someone needs to know how to use this tool.

Mark

« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2008, 09:26 »
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I do it with luminosity masks (PS), sometimes multiple ones are needed, sometimes one is good enough, but generally the results are perfect.  Duplicate your background layer.  Switch to the channels palette.  If overall brightness provides good separation, the overall image can be used as a mask, otherwise look for a color channel that has good separation overall or in one area.  If RGB doesn't have a good one, switch to CMYK to have a looksee, you might get lucky.  Drag this channel into the open circle to select the pixels based on the brightness, there is a greyscale of the image as the selection.  White allows the layer through, black eliminates the effect, grey is proportional to the brightness (these are great for a number of things, they are 100% self feathering, kiss the shadows/highlight tool goodbye as a crude tool).  With your new layer selected click on the open circle to add the selection as a layer mask.  Now alt-click on the mask to activate it.  Adjust the contrast and brightness of the mask to perfectly outline borders in black and white (areas other than the borders can be painted black or white  easily).  Click on image icon on the layer now to activate the image.  Paint white along the border to separate from the background, if it isn't perfect, go back to the mask and make adjustments.  If all areas weren't covered, flatten the image, and redo the entire process using a different channel or different rendering of the mask.  There should always be adequate separation on at least one color channel for everywhere in an image for this to work, it seems meticulous, but once you get used to it, it goes quick, I've not needed more than 2 ever, but I could see applications where it has to be done over and over.  If you own PS and do not know how to use luminosity masks, google it, it is a somewhat hidden feature of the program but probably the most powerful thing that it can do.  The use of these masks is not possible with elements, the full PS (any version really) is needed.

vonkara

« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2008, 16:28 »
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Nobody is going to believe me, but all my isolations were made whit the brush tool at about 85 of sharpness and 22 to 25 wide pixels. Cutting the whole edges around...

I made 3 trip to the psychiatric hospital, but now I take the life a bit cooler. Thankyou for those who share their methods. I think I will try the pen tool now.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2008, 08:09 by Vonkara »

« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2008, 18:21 »
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Nobody is going to believe me, but all my isolations were made whit the brush tool at about 85 of sharpness and 22 to 25 wide pixels. Cutting the whole edges around...

I made 3 trip to the psychiatric hospital, but now I take the life a bit cooler. Thankyou for those who share their methods. I think I will try the pen tool I think now.

lol.... oh dear...that's quite close to what i was doing when i started "isolating' - i was using polygonal lasso tool. torture comparable to being in a dentist's chair  without pain killers :) PEN TOOL IS THE BEST, and is the way to go no matter what you are isolating - it's very reliable in any sort of isolation.

« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2008, 18:23 »
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I literally use about 10 distinct and different methods for isolations in photoshop.
Those are just 10 I use. There are about 10 more that I don't use.

The best,
The MIZ

« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2008, 18:36 »
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pen tool and quick mask, all other methods are for people with steel nerves.
with pen tool and small screen that I have nerves are also needed: enlarged to 200-300% image jumps out of submission when pen handle reaches the edge of the screen. but this is the limitation of my 15 inch monitor, with a larger monitor pen tool is probably the best.



« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2008, 18:41 »
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vphoto,

In PS hit the "F" key twice. This will place your image on a screen where you can beyond the borders of you image with the PEN tool.

The best to you,
The MIZ

« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2008, 19:43 »
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thanks, miz. I have tried it and it gives me more room for pen tool.



 

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