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Author Topic: It's official, you are exclusive.  (Read 5518 times)

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« on: March 24, 2019, 00:12 »
+1
Still a newbie, maybe doing a big mistake but guess every
opinion and decision deserves a space to be talked.

I understand that professionals here cannot take that risk.

But for the rest of us. The "small fish" as they say.

So, you did go exclusively video uploading to Pond5.

If YES would you like to share your reasons?

Mine was zero sales to other two agencies plus their (lots of) rejections.
I did it understanding that I am not an exclusive artist or something but
just accepting an exclusive uploading and distributing agreement
with the benefit to set my prices and some possible perks as an exclusive uploader.

:)


« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2019, 00:28 »
+1

just accepting an exclusive uploading and distributing agreement
with the benefit to set my prices and some possible perks as an exclusive uploader.



I thought everybody could set their prices on Pond 5, exclusive and non exclusive. Just that exclusives have more flexibility with the prices they can set.

« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2019, 06:28 »
+3
I am a long time professional and going forward all of my new material will be Exclusive to Pond5. Reasons are simple. The industry is headed to the penny market so if we don't value our work nobody else will!! buyers will look for the best they can find of the cheapest and that is why you need exclusive files! Getty is still in business because of their exclusive collection. Pricing is fair and I am thrilled that the agency is honoring my hard work! This is a long game friends but if you value your work and don't want all your sales to be $1.50 or less then this is the path you might want to consider. Having worked in this field close to 15 years I know which agencies will treat you best on Pond5 is at the top for that!

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2019, 06:52 »
+6
What will happen when in 1-3-5 years Pond5 will sell for the same $1.50? But you won't be able to get an additional income from anywhere else and lose all the positions in searches?
Exclusivity is such a short term "win".

Getty is still in business because of their exclusive collection

Exactly, this is Pond5 who needs this to market against Getty, it has nothing to do with "agency is honoring my hard work". This sounds so naive, sorry.

And the next step to "win against Getty" for them will be another "Premium access", and they will shower you with promises again, because "this is the only way to go", because the evil Getty does it...

And doing all that for just 60%... this is unbelievable :)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 06:59 by swisschocolate »

« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2019, 08:28 »
+1
What will happen when in 1-3-5 years Pond5 will sell for the same $1.50? But you won't be able to get an additional income from anywhere else and lose all the positions in searches?
Exclusivity is such a short term "win".

Getty is still in business because of their exclusive collection

Exactly, this is Pond5 who needs this to market against Getty, it has nothing to do with "agency is honoring my hard work". This sounds so naive, sorry.

And the next step to "win against Getty" for them will be another "Premium access", and they will shower you with promises again, because "this is the only way to go", because the evil Getty does it...

And doing all that for just 60%... this is unbelievable :)

Unbelievable is that you call it just 60%, that's 400% better than Getty.  Nobody knows what the future holds at Pond5, but you can hazard a reasonable guess that Istock, shutterstock and most of the rest will only go one way and with it your prices on Pond5 if you stay independent..
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 08:35 by obj owl »

« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2019, 08:30 »
+7
As I state before I do what is best for me, doesn't bother me if no one follows! Been at this a long time and not afraid  to take this chance, I was called naive when I started this full-time 9 years ago :-)

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2019, 08:47 »
+1
Unbelievable is that you call it just 60%, that's 400% better than Getty.  Nobody knows what the future holds at Pond5, but you can hazard a reasonable guess that Istock, shutterstock and most of the rest will only go one way and with it your prices on Pond5 it you stay independent..

It is just 60% for your total dependance on one single company, which isn't even a market leader... and as you say: "Nobody knows what the future holds at Pond5".

+ you will still compete with other exclusives and non-exclusive for customers. What percentage of customers shop on Pond5 in comparison with whole stock market? (no need to answer)

It is really better for us, non-exclusive, if more people will go exclusive. So I'm not here to change anyone's mind.

It's just a friendly advice, since I'm right now, at this very moment, experincing all the consequences of my choice to go exclusive years ago.

« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2019, 10:33 »
+1
I guess I will resort to begging people to not go Exclusive! Works for me.

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2019, 10:47 »
+2
I guess I will resort to begging people to not go Exclusive! Works for me.

It seemed that you was "building a community" and I was watching your videos on YT and will continue to. But it seems there won't be any community anymore, since there will be only Pond5 left to discuss for you.
Sadly, I will miss your point of view.

And it is strange that you won't give any reasonable explanation of why is it better to go exclusive, except: "I am a long time professional" and "I do what is best for me".
Here are many long time professionals :) and we all do what is the best for us, but it is great to have a discussion with examples and some thoughtful rationale.

« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2019, 10:59 »
+5
Please keep in mind I still have thousands of clips online and will let the community know how that is going. I also curate for several artist through BlackBox which is also non-exclusive! I will serve and help any artist no matter where they submit because good stock is good stock no matter where you submit it. My goal is to provide people with tools to shoot high end stock. Now for me this step is important because I see my work going for less and less and have no control over my pricing. I actually loved being Exclusive at Getty until they broke all their promises, I am aware that Pond5 could do the same but after talking to them a while and working with them the past few years I feel that I need more control over my work in the future and it is very motivating to me to get 60% it is a mental boost for me to keep at it. It also saves me time so I can focus more on shooting and use uploading to one site. Over the years my production has suffered because I have upload to so many different sites. I am here to support any video artist and hey if you are making a killing on SS or any other platform them stay there. Pond5 is my top earner so that is why I am focusing there for me. Thank-you for watching my youtube channel!! don't worry it will not become a Pond5 only channel the world is much to big for that! It will be focused on helping you succeed in video!

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2019, 11:06 »
+3
Please keep in mind I still have thousands of clips online and will let the community know how that is going. I also curate for several artist through BlackBox which is also non-exclusive! I will serve and help any artist no matter where they submit because good stock is good stock no matter where you submit it. My goal is to provide people with tools to shoot high end stock. Now for me this step is important because I see my work going for less and less and have no control over my pricing. I actually loved being Exclusive at Getty until they broke all their promises, I am aware that Pond5 could do the same but after talking to them a while and working with them the past few years I feel that I need more control over my work in the future and it is very motivating to me to get 60% it is a mental boost for me to keep at it. It also saves me time so I can focus more on shooting and use uploading to one site. Over the years my production has suffered because I have upload to so many different sites. I am here to support any video artist and hey if you are making a killing on SS or any other platform them stay there. Pond5 is my top earner so that is why I am focusing there for me. Thank-you for watching my youtube channel!! don't worry it will not become a Pond5 only channel the world is much to big for that! It will be focused on helping you succeed in video!

Thank you for your insights. Well, that would be great if Pond5 would somehow become an exception, indeed.

« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2019, 12:06 »
+1
Quote
discussion with examples

@ swisschocolate it is understandable that your advise is friendly
and that you have experienced the exclusivity negatives first hand
and you want to warn people not to have a similar bad situation :)

Remember no big port, no real earnings, if withing two years I will not manage to produce a few good clips
and see some results I am out of stock eitherway. (remember, started this thread for us, new, small fish) :) 

Here are some things I noticed if this help, I dunno if they indicate anything or are just coincidences:

aside no sales as a newbie, I had frustrating rejections, I use to say for Adobe but also, I had
"subject not visible because of other object" (don't remember the exact words) on SS
it was a sliding shot of a town hall clock linearly revealed behind a tree trunk. duh!
It is one thing to misfocus or shake or frame incorrect and another to put effort that is rejected from the thumbnail.

Googling "[whatever]stock footage" in videos tab, SS dominates the results.
Ranking high or first, guess cost a lot. You know what this mean.

Adobe (plus Vimeo that rejected me) are as P5 say (I don't really know) included in our clips promotion.
Vimeo is filmmaking oriented, I thought I might have some success with some heavy graded, odd angle, etc shots.
I am not sure and no guarantee of course. It is a matter of perspective.

If Adobe, Vimeo and Pond5 have an understanding, ShutterStock is at the wall.
Not today, not tomorrow but some time later as for videos. I don't know for photos etc.

I shoot HD. Uploading in Adobe a "red rose" clip and a released clip with model (my wife actually) are priced equally.
From scratch, without any sales, I uplifted the prices in Pond5 and I felt better.
I don't care if 4K is priced higher as long as it is the content as everybody say.
Just a subjective matter of attitude.

Adobe already lost (as much as I read, perhaps I got it wrong?) all the Fotolia years earned reputation.
Plus no direct communication, the only time I "spoke" with an Adobe person was here,
in a post teasing Mat about editorial videos or something.

And of course I am not 100% sure for what I did. I wouldn't dare to advise not even a close friend to follow my path.

:)
 

« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2019, 00:10 »
+4
Best of luck to you, George. I've decided to go the middle way, and created a second account with Pond5 so I can market some work there as exclusive, and some as non-exclusive. For those who asked for rationale, this is mine:

First, as far as I can tell, Pond5 is not Getty. Their culture, their management team, everything. They aren't a bunch of bankers up to their eyebrows in debt working to exploit 'assets'. Quoting here from last week's letter from Pond5's CEO: "Pond5 was founded on the principle of providing artists with control over the pricing of their content and equitably sharing royalties earned from licensing that content. We are proud to say that we will never waver from these founding principles, even as we adapt to evolving market conditions." I think they're the real deal. I was burned by Getty in recent years and didn't think I'd ever go exclusive again, but if there's any chance of reversing the race to the bottom and shutting out Getty's PA scheme, I'm all in.

Secondly, some of us might be making more in total today from P5 + SS, etc. than from P5 exclusive, but as prices fall for non-exclusive content - which they surely will - this could change.

Finally, there's all the time saved not having to upload to 3-4 outlets. I'd much rather spend my time shooting, and I'm pretty sure I could easily produce 30% more if I only had to upload to one place.

There are many things I like about this offer:

* 60% royalty from Pond5: Wow, that is like the 'good old days'!! Isn't that what The Image Bank paid once upon a time?
* Pond5's resolve to hold the line on pricing
* Distribution to Adobe, Vimeo and others without any additional work required on my part
* Assurance that distributors won't undercut P5 price
* Easier release/legal requirements. There's no witness signature for some of the clips I had with Getty, which means I can't upload them to SS and maybe not even to Adobe directly. (It seems Adobe's requirements are changing as they transition from Fotolia.) Pond5 is OK with no witness as long as you can attach an image of the subject.
* Rational editing and good support: working with people who really seem to understand the market and their contributors.
* Refusing to let Getty undervalue my content and lead the entire industry to the bottom (improves my sleep). As the saying goes, we've seen this movie before, and I don't want to watch it again.

I have about 20 clips on iStock and others that are also on P5. Since I can't delete them from iS (another reason not to submit!), but still want to market them, I decided to leave that content 'as is' and set up a second account for exclusive content with Pond5 today. I'm waiting for approval of my ID, but in the meantime have already uploaded my first set of Pond5 exclusive files. This is good quality, but specialized, work that would never sell dozens of times for $10. If I can make a few sales per clip at $79, that works for me.

I understand that we all have unique circumstances, and what's right for one might not be the best for another. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how this plays out and I am especially curious to see how Getty responds.

« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2019, 01:15 »
+1
I will open a second account for exclusive content on pond5. Then I will try to find a theme for it, although initially I will probably upload a mix of files.

However, I will not give up on Blackbox, I treat them as an additional exclusive partner, nor will I give up uploading to Shutterstock and other places non exclusive content.

I do understand how John feels, I certainly miss the old istock exclusive times. And good luck George, I hope it all works out for you.

But as an artist I feel that my life will be safer if we continue to have a multipolar world with several agencies, instead of just one dominant site.

So that is why I believe it is important to continue to support several marketplaces, especially including Adobe, which is still new to video and growing, to keep having these choices.

Everyone has to make their own decisions. Freedom is the reason I took this job.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 04:56 by cobalt »

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2019, 02:19 »
+4
Regardless, it will be interesting to see how this plays out and I am especially curious to see how Getty responds.

Responds to what? That a handful of artists went exclusive on Pond5? :)

How did SS respond when there was a real wave of going exclusive on IS? When top of the top like Arcurs, Andres and others left?

No one noticed and now they don't even remember they were there.

First, as far as I can tell, Pond5 is not Getty. Their culture, their management team, everything. They aren't a bunch of bankers up to their eyebrows in debt working to exploit 'assets'.

For sure they are not! They've just cutted our % from 50 to 40 :D But it feels so different! Right?

I'm fascinated how Pond5 was able to brainwash with their: We care about artists. We are not bad guys. And now, give us your money, please. We can even call you on the phone and talk to you, but you will pay for it :D
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 06:23 by swisschocolate »

« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2019, 07:29 »
+4
I do not understand why so many people think Pond5 is so good.
They just grabbed 20% of our revenue.

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2019, 07:34 »
+2
I do not understand why so many people think Pond5 is so good.
They just grabbed 20% of our revenue.

And instead of losing trust and treat P5 like they treat us (as a business, nothing else).
They are giving them those 20% and in addition go to work for them full time now :D (Because they called us on the phone! Yay!) Unbelievable.
It looks like a classic Stockholm syndrome.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Stockholm syndrome is a condition which causes hostages to develop a psychological alliance with their captors as a survival strategy during captivity.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 07:41 by swisschocolate »

« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2019, 08:25 »
+3
Markets don't lie so time will tell if Pond5 made the right move!

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2019, 08:32 »
+1
It's about us, who can't stand for our money. P5 just copied Alamy in reducing % and offering exclusivity at the same moment.
So not only they get more of our money + they get full time workers with no salary as a bonus!

That's why they are CEOs and we are "poor artists" who are falling for every "we will save you from the evil Getty/market or whatever" promise.
Sadly :'(
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 08:37 by swisschocolate »

« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2019, 08:58 »
+3
Markets don't lie so time will tell if Pond5 made the right move!

Markets can be built on lies and deception.

« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2019, 09:23 »
0
Quote
I do not understand why so many people think Pond5 is so good.

No good. Nobody cares for (although a newbie allow me to say--->) us.
Like every person or brand customer that wants from you and me more for less.

It is just a "career" decision with many asterisks,
this was and the reason of the thread:
for people who decided fully or partially to do it,
to give some reasons why :)

« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2019, 09:37 »
+3
Regardless, it will be interesting to see how this plays out and I am especially curious to see how Getty responds.

Responds to what? That a handful of artists went exclusive on Pond5? :)


You might want to wait and check the list of Pond5 exclusives before you make assumptions about the impact this could potentially have. Hotelfoxtrot is more than a handful all by themselves, likely representing more clips at a higher quality than everyone posting on forums about this subject combined. The biggest players don't waste a lot of their time chatting nonsense with know-it-alls in forums, so we are not getting the full picture yet.

Artist exclusive is a no-go because we all know what could happen (thanks again, iStock and the people that STILL actually contribute to them). Pond5 has had some missteps in the past year or so, that's true. But a lot of people, and the competitors, might be surprised once this gets rolling. There's a lot of people being nudged over the edge to opening a second X account.

Losing Shutterstock income is the only thing making this a tough call for the average contributor. The $300 sales are nice, when they happen. But they are out of their * minds if they thing I'm gonna continue putting up with the increasingly frequent $1.50 sales. Bailing on Shutterstock completely though, would be a tough call. Maybe a gradual stepping away is best in most circumstances. Storyblocks is all but dead. Pond5 Exclusives still get access to Adobe distribution through the GPP program.

60%, premium prices? No ridiculous hipster popularity contest for entry like Stocksy? Might be the last best chance at as good a deal as we'll ever get. If this goes like they hope, they're going to need that 20% clawback of royalties.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 09:43 by Daryl Ray »

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2019, 09:48 »
+1
A "career" decision that is proved to be toxic for everyone.

We don't want our earnings to be reduced, so what we do?
We go exclusive with the company that has just reduced our earnings to fight against reduced earnings! :D Bravo!

You might want to wait and check the list of Pond5 exclusives before you make assumptions about the impact this could potentially have. Hotelfoxtrot is more than a handful all by themselves, likely representing more clips at a higher quality than everyone posting on forums about this subject combined. The biggest players don't waste a lot of their time chatting nonsense with know-it-alls in forums, so we are not getting the full picture yet.

I was here, when Arcurs and Andres went exclusive. And not with Pond5, but with a real market leader at that time. Where are they now and how did it affect the market?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 09:53 by swisschocolate »

« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2019, 09:53 »
+1
A "career" decision that is proved to be toxic for everyone.

We don't want our earnings to be reduced, so what we do?
We go exclusive with the company that has just reduced our earnings to fight against reduced earnings! :D Bravo!

A matter of perspective. If you are on the inside, you just got a 20% increase and better price protection.

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2019, 09:58 »
+2
A matter of perspective. If you are on the inside, you just got a 20% increase and better price protection.

With the risk of losing it all in 5 years. Even 1,50 sales. Because P5 will follow the market. With or without exclusive collection. Isn't it?

It is really maybe the last chance to make "quick" money. But better save them all then. Because after it all fades, you won't come back that easily.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 10:03 by swisschocolate »


 

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