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Author Topic: Minimum prices at Pond5  (Read 18247 times)

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« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2016, 10:52 »
+2
Haha, yeah the drones have quickly devalued all those nice helicopter shots. But axiom's RED stuff still seems to sell incredibly well, so it's not all over...

Pond5 has been absolutely crazy these last two months with several thousand over my previous best month. They must have gotten a lot more new buyers or I'm just extremely lucky.


« Reply #76 on: October 21, 2016, 02:55 »
0
Here you can find some datas about october best sellers...
No wonder they are all high priced clips...
I wonder if those people that sell on evanto or videohive sell the same clips on other agencies at higher price...
https://www.pond5.com/collections/1610446-top-sellers-october-2016

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #77 on: October 21, 2016, 03:56 »
+1
So with a third of the month to go, my October sales are estimated to end up about 45% less than my September sales. I was under the impression that raising the minus from $10 to $25 would increase my sales? Was that an oversight or does it take a bit longer? I'm assuming it's the latter, as all you guys were so steadfastly convinced that sales would go up as a result, so perish the thought that any of you might be wrong.

Is a considerable dip in sales normal after a price increase, before they then increase?

If possible, anecdotal evidence, based on historical data and actual sales figures, would be preferable over views based on a non-descript, misguided, self belief in the value and importance of ones own work. Thanks! 

« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2016, 06:01 »
0
Well, of course no one can say for sure what will happen on an individual basis. It is possible that there were some buyers lined up for the cheap price that then decided not to. And then it takes some time for other buyers who may sort by higher price to find the clips. It can often take weeks or even months sometimes from finding a clip to actually buying it.

Anyway, the only thing you can do is to experiment. With a couple of hundred clips I have tried different price levels at the same time so I can compare. Of course, they're not the same clips/tracks, but it can give me an idea.

In MY experience, I make the most money from my highest priced clips. They also have lots of sales from before and a few have been featured. But the buyers don't seem to be scared. Bestsellers at P5 every month so compared to other assets they must be doing pretty well. Of course, they are also what I consider to be some of my best work.

Anwyay, good luck, and maybe try different pricing for different clips if you haven't already.

I'm having the two best months ever on P5, by almost 100%! October is always good, but this is a big step up. Of course, there can be a million reasons why that has happened. Not really any new material though.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 06:06 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2016, 10:00 »
0
Spacestockfootage can i ask you how long have you been in this industry??you cannot judge changes after 1 month and you cannot compare sept with oct...every month is different,it's a rollercoaster...
Btw the datas confirms that no one of 10/20$ clips are best sellers in october....do your maths...

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2016, 10:05 »
+2
All valid advice. I just found it slightly annoying that a lot of people seem to be under the impression that all clips should be priced higher and everyone who prices their clips higher will automatically make more money.... whether it's an 8K aerial clip of New York or a handheld 720p clip of your cat shot in low light on an iPhone 4.

Some things aren't always worth $25, and pricing such stuff at $99 is highly unlikely to result in increased revenue!

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2016, 10:10 »
+3
Spacestockfootage can i ask you how long have you been in this industry??you cannot judge changes after 1 month and you cannot compare sept with oct...every month is different,it's a rollercoaster...
Btw the datas confirms that no one of 10/20$ clips are best sellers in october....do your maths...

Six years. The previous guy said three months is enough, you're saying one month is not enough... so what's the cut off point? How many days is it?

Of course the $10/$20 clips aren't bestsellers. Even I know that if your clips are in the best sellers list, then you shouldn't be pricing them at $10/$20. It just seems that almost everyone is saying that you should put your prices up across the board... even if you have a five year old clip at $10 which hasn't even sold once. Is it going to become a top seller if you put it up to $49, or $99? I can't see it happening.

But hey, we should value our work...  even if it doesn't make us any money!

« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2016, 12:29 »
0
Yes every clip is different and i agree with you...i'm not saying that all clips should be priced at 199...but i wondering why people sells the same clip at 10$ on pond5 and 79 on shutterstock...buyers are not stupid and as a buyer i can say that i check every sites to buy...so in the long run low prices will end with a rush to the bottom and that isn't going to give you more money....

« Reply #83 on: October 21, 2016, 14:53 »
+2
All valid advice. I just found it slightly annoying that a lot of people seem to be under the impression that all clips should be priced higher and everyone who prices their clips higher will automatically make more money.... whether it's an 8K aerial clip of New York or a handheld 720p clip of your cat shot in low light on an iPhone 4.

Some things aren't always worth $25, and pricing such stuff at $99 is highly unlikely to result in increased revenue!

Again and again, you completely miss the point. Trying my best to simplify this as much as possible: Collectively, as sellers of digital content, we should never allow a company to take more than 50%, and our content should be priced high enough for long-term sustainability. Both of these are fairly impossible to imagine right now, and that's only because too many of you don't get it.

So you feel ok selling clips for $8 now, next month someone else will feel fine selling clips for $5. Next year for $2. Buyers are lulled into thinking that those prices are where they should be. This is how the photo contributors of the past screwed us all by allowing an system where iStock gets away with lowering contributor percentage to 15%. Because you guys don't care about anything but your current bottom line and your limited experience. You just want to be right, you're not listening and thinking.

If you were a $10 seller on Pond5, and the same buyers now need to pay $25 for those same clips, you're making $12.50 on each sale rather than $5. $12.50 is more that $5. If that doesn't make sense to you yet, it never will.

That being said, no one can guarantee what kind of sales you're going to have day to day, month to month. This is business. And if you want guarantees, go work for someone. If you want freedom and to be your own boss, you gotta take risks, you gotta make smart decisions that keep the future and sustainability of your business intact. Otherwise, you ARE contributing to the marginalization of what we are ALL doing.

Besides, raising or lowering prices, giving it 2 weeks and then declaring any kind of conclusion is pure amateur activity.

« Reply #84 on: October 21, 2016, 15:29 »
+1
Daryl pretty much summed it up perfectly.  Protect the business for the long term.  BTW for the first time ever, Pond5 will be my highest earner over SS this month.  That's because I raised my prices a few months back from $59 to $79 across the board.  I'm selling more clips at a better price.  25% increase in sales. 

« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2016, 16:05 »
+2
You can buy a pair of jeans for 10 dollars and for 5000...both companies survive.

To simply say everyone who works in the Jeans industry should price their jeans at least at 1000 dollars and then customers will always pay 1000 dollars...seriously, life doesnt work that way.

I wonder how many people here, who complain that some artist price for volume or price by quality always pay the highest prices when they go through their daily life.

Do you all practise what you preach? Buy ONLY fair trade coffe, organic food, clothes form your local tailor? Do you never order from amazon, but always go to your local stores to support them? Do you always hire a professionell painter, instead of the kid next door?

Or do you mix it up - sometimes organic and fair trade, sometimes the cheapest you can buy?

If you have a distinct portfolio with quality work, the prices other artists charge dont affect you.

And many artists offer different prices and quality for different markets and make a very good living that way. Oversupply and thus lower visibility in the flood of files is the biggest problem.

I have photos from 30 cents to 600 dollars, and that works really well. I will follow the same strategy for video or any other products. Some products are high volume, some are not. Some clips are expensive to produce, some are not.

There used to be countries where every price was decided by the government and there was usually just one product or company per category. We all know how successful that was...

If you have active entrepreneurs and free markets, you have choices.

There are agencies that specialize in high prices - you can upload only there if you want to.

There are agencies with fixed prices, you can select them. And then there is pond5 which used to be the only free marketplace. It now has a floor at 8 dollars or whatever their lowest price is in membership.

We will see how it goes and what happens. The data from the membership program will be the most important for those looking for some help how to price their files.

However the real challenge will always be the flood. How will customers find my files, in a sea of 100 million or more?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 16:27 by cobalt »

alno

« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2016, 04:34 »
+5
Some time ago I spoke to a person who often buys clips for medium and small video projects. He said he is buying clips on Envato now and he wouldn't buy anywhere for some "crazy $79". I assume he simply downloaded them before on torrents or "special" sites for free. You and me will never trace down all usage of the clip downloaded more that 2 or 3 times from stock sites. Yes, that's thievery. What all this about is getting 2.88 per HD is better than 0 per HD. I guess lowering prices for some software in poor countries is not a courtesy of major companies, it's a way to get SOME profit instead of zero profit.

« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2016, 11:26 »
+5
Daryl pretty much summed it up perfectly.  Protect the business for the long term.

It's a beautiful thought. But it only works if EVERYONE does it, which is impossible and will never happen. $100 in your pocket today is worth more than possibly more down the line. You never know where the business is heading, or if it even exists 10 years from now.

It's quite simple really - you follow the buyers.

I have very different pricing on different sites, and I sell on all. I can't change the pricing on most sites, but they have lots of buyers which makes me want to sell there. People also steal my stuff, which I have seen many times. It's a fact of life in the digital age and you can't do too much about it. I have caught more than a few selling my material as their own, but can't really do more than report them and shut down their account. They probably open up a new account elsewhere and go on selling.

I don't think most buyers shop around that much on all the different sites, it's too time consuming. If they all did that I would never see any high-priced sales, but I do despite having the same material sometimes at 10% of the price elsewhere.

Buyers with high budgets don't care about $50 here and there and will buy an expensive clip/track if it fits. Buyers with low budgets will look for the lowest price meaning no sale at all, or a cheap sale.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 12:44 by increasingdifficulty »

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2016, 21:27 »
+1
All valid advice. I just found it slightly annoying that a lot of people seem to be under the impression that all clips should be priced higher and everyone who prices their clips higher will automatically make more money.... whether it's an 8K aerial clip of New York or a handheld 720p clip of your cat shot in low light on an iPhone 4.

Some things aren't always worth $25, and pricing such stuff at $99 is highly unlikely to result in increased revenue!

Again and again, you completely miss the point. Trying my best to simplify this as much as possible: Collectively, as sellers of digital content, we should never allow a company to take more than 50%, and our content should be priced high enough for long-term sustainability. Both of these are fairly impossible to imagine right now, and that's only because too many of you don't get it.

So you feel ok selling clips for $8 now, next month someone else will feel fine selling clips for $5. Next year for $2. Buyers are lulled into thinking that those prices are where they should be. This is how the photo contributors of the past screwed us all by allowing an system where iStock gets away with lowering contributor percentage to 15%. Because you guys don't care about anything but your current bottom line and your limited experience. You just want to be right, you're not listening and thinking.

If you were a $10 seller on Pond5, and the same buyers now need to pay $25 for those same clips, you're making $12.50 on each sale rather than $5. $12.50 is more that $5. If that doesn't make sense to you yet, it never will.

That being said, no one can guarantee what kind of sales you're going to have day to day, month to month. This is business. And if you want guarantees, go work for someone. If you want freedom and to be your own boss, you gotta take risks, you gotta make smart decisions that keep the future and sustainability of your business intact. Otherwise, you ARE contributing to the marginalization of what we are ALL doing.

Besides, raising or lowering prices, giving it 2 weeks and then declaring any kind of conclusion is pure amateur activity.

"Collectively, as sellers of digital content, we should never allow a company to take more than 50%"

Why should you not allow them to take more than 50%? Why not 49% or 51%? Is it just that it happens to be a nice round number that you feel is fair... or is there anything a bit more concrete to it?

"and our content should be priced high enough for long-term sustainability"

What do you mean by this, I must be missing something? Does setting prices high quarantee losts of sales over an extended period of time?

"So you feel ok selling clips for $8 now, next month someone else will feel fine selling clips for $5. Next year for $2."

You probably would have said that back in 2006 when Envato started. Or in 2010 when I started selling stock there. Where are these $5 and $2 sites? Surely if next month it will be $5 and the month after it will be $2... there should be a bunch of $0.01 sites out there? But on a side note... HD was $6 when I started at VideoHive... they went up to $7 in 2012 and $8 in 2014. 

"Buyers are lulled into thinking that those prices are where they should be."

Maybe they'd be right. Are they wrong? If so, where should the prices be? Have you done the research and the math or have you decided on a price that just happens to be the same as one of the sites you sell on... maybe it also happens to be the site you sell the most at? The site I sell the most at is Envato, so maybe their prices are where they should be?

"Because you guys don't care about anything but your current bottom line and your limited experience."

If I shouldn't be caring about my bottom line that has been doubling year on year since 2010, then what should I be caring about?

"You just want to be right, you're not listening and thinking."

The same could be said for you. What makes you right? What stats and facts and evidence do you have that $8 HD clips will result in the end of civilization as we know it?

If you were a $10 seller on Pond5, and the same buyers now need to pay $25 for those same clips, you're making $12.50 on each sale rather than $5. $12.50 is more that $5. If that doesn't make sense to you yet, it never will.

I thought we'd come to the consensus that as there's now less of a gap between the $25 clips and the $35/$45/$55 clips (since they increased from $10) then people will go for the more expensive clips and not buy the $25 clips. So yes, $12.50 per sale is a lot more than $5, but not if you're not selling any.

If you want freedom and to be your own boss, you gotta take risks,

So you're going to take a risk and give VideoHive a try?   

"you gotta make smart decisions that keep the future and sustainability of your business intact."

I still don't get this. I must be stupid. Low prices don't automatically result in an unsustainable business. Budget airlines, dollar stores, instant noodles, McDonalds, Walmart... there's quite a few billionaire CEOs out there that might disagree with you.

Besides, raising or lowering prices, giving it 2 weeks and then declaring any kind of conclusion is pure amateur activity.

I know, I was being facetious... all the people saying "yeah, even though you don't have any clips under $25, the minimum going from $10 to $25 will mean you'll make more money!" And then I made less. But yes, I know such things take time... but I can pretty much guarantee that it's not going to happen! Do I have facts and figures to back that up? No. But you don't have anything to base your opinions on how my approach isn't sustainable either. Any increase in my earnings from now on will be due to me uploading new content. And possibly a growth in the customer base, but that'll probably be offset by all the new content.   


« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2016, 04:46 »
0
Spacestock, What price do you have for your clips on Pond5 out of interest?

« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2016, 05:31 »
+1
Guys if you think thay the only way to sell is lowering price i suggest to invest more time in shooting something new that stands out...i don't see a reason to sell at 25$ since i'm selling well at higher price...so again if you don't get sales at higher price you should improve your skills and shoot better...
Here it seems that the only way to sell is undercut other artists...i think the only way to sell is create something that stands out....and it's not all about price....

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #91 on: October 23, 2016, 06:27 »
+1
Spacestock, What price do you have for your clips on Pond5 out of interest?

$50 for HD and $99 for 4k. I think I have a couple of clips at $25, but they're far from impressive.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2016, 06:40 »
+1
Guys if you think thay the only way to sell is lowering price i suggest to invest more time in shooting something new that stands out...i don't see a reason to sell at 25$ since i'm selling well at higher price...so again if you don't get sales at higher price you should improve your skills and shoot better...
Here it seems that the only way to sell is undercut other artists...i think the only way to sell is create something that stands out....and it's not all about price....

I think you might have put two and two together and got a bag full of cats. If you're on about me, anyway! I've never lowered my prices and I'm very happy with my sales. And I also sell at more than $25 on Pond5 and am selling well at those higher prices.

I agree that quality is the key, I just disagree with the blind arrogance that every single person who sells stock should price their clips as high as humanely possible as they will automatically make more money as a result. Nobody has said exactly that, but it's being heavily insinuated here and there.

JaenStock

  • Bad images can sell.
« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2016, 07:17 »
0
Good movement. All microstock sites must raise prices and curated image quality, similar series and composition best!

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #94 on: October 23, 2016, 07:58 »
+3
All microstock sites must raise prices...

Why?

« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2016, 08:45 »
+2
Honestly don't care that the three vocal sellers here with a mental block against selling content at fair, sustainable prices and not letting agencies screw us over refuse to understand. Do what you want. I post my opinion not for you, but in the hopes that the silent majority of readers of these forums can have something to think about when making their decisions on what agencies to trust, and how to value their own worth. We all have choices to make, I hope more people start making the right choices for the right reasons. And you guys that have made the choice that the agencies can give you whatever percentage they want no matter how small, and that the floor is the limit on prices, good for you. Keep giving yourselves pats on the back for your nonsense analogies and theories. Keep ignoring the urging of your peers to respect our craft and business.

As it keeps getting said, the problem boils down to not enough of you wanting to do the right thing because you don't value your own product, and you honestly just don't comprehend long term business strategy. Some of us want to keep this going indefinitely, some of you want to ruin it for everyone by supporting bad companies and by having such a negative self opinion of their own work that they can't imagine someone paying reasonable money for it. It's sad actually. Fingers crossed someone with the time and energy organizes some kind of union among us to unify our cause and make this all work for the long term. But you guys would argue against that too, I'm sure.

SpaceStockFootage

  • Space, Sci-Fi and Astronomy Related Stock Footage

« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2016, 09:20 »
+3
The more I hear it, the more I'm convinced that people really have no idea what they're on about when they're consistently talking about sustainable prices, the long term and valuing our work. It seems like some kind of ideal, a concept that people have signed up for, where they are the masters of the universe because they own a half decent camera or a reasonable spec comouter and they actually know how to use them... but they have no real clue exactly what any of it all means.

If somebody would like to explain it to me, then I'd be happy to listen. Or you could just say something along the lines of because I don't get it now I never will... and thus reinforcing your sense of self importance, belief that you're right, and avoidance of the fact that making stock isn't exactly rocket science.

« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2016, 09:57 »
0
You asking for a step by step procedure for success. I'm giving an opinion on a philosophy. Yes, it is an ideal, a concept.

You want someone to tell you specifically how to price your product. I've explained that you have to make that decision on your own but you can get an good idea of how to do that by taking into consideration what the agencies have been doing. For HD: Shutterstock says $80. Videoblocks says $50. Fotolia/Adobe says $75. Average sold price on Pond5 $65. These are the top companies making real money doing this. They price these ways for a reason. So, we should really all agree that $8 is too low, that under $25 is too low. That's not really an opinion, that's what a sane, logical human would conclude by looking at those numbers. Beyond that, do what you need to do. If you create low quality content that has little value, more power to you. That's as specific as I can possibly get.

I don't price based on the fear that thieves would steal it otherwise. But that's a whole different topic.

And really, my sense of self importance? I'm freaking anonymous on here. I'm legitimately concerned when these forum threads are dominated by "sell cheap, let the agencies take all they want" and the pushing of self-destructive precedents that could be leading new artists down the path of further marginalization of our craft.

This is my last post in this thread. We're just going in circles.

alno

« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2016, 10:27 »
+3
I noticed that in order to ruin something good and self-organized that just works by itself many people here consistently suggest some pathetic restrictions like unions. Thankfully not Soviet Unions yet... For better future of industry of course.

« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2016, 11:16 »
+5
I noticed that in order to ruin something good and self-organized that just works by itself many people here consistently suggest some pathetic restrictions like unions. Thankfully not Soviet Unions yet... For better future of industry of course.

The underlying tone of the union tone in this forum begins with understanding the original intent of unions themselves.  "Labor unions were created in order to help the workers with work-related difficulties such as low pay, unsafe or unsanitary working conditions, long hours, and other situations." The talk of such unions in here isn't about "pathetic restrictions", it's about a fair pay, fair play model. Businesses like DP and FT continue to find ways to cheat the contributor and the speak in here was mainly about a support mechanism (a union of some sort) to protect the contributor.  I'm not saying a union is the answer because I don't know, but the idea behind what unions were originally meant to be sounds awfully good right about now.  Without such a mechanism, we will continue to see a decline in pricing and commissions within the micro stock industry.


 

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