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Author Topic: Pond 5 Sales & Discounting  (Read 2428 times)

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« on: July 18, 2022, 01:18 »
+1
Today I sold 3 clips on P5, and 2 of them were discounted by over 50%. I checked and none of those clips are available as subscriptions when you filter as Subscriptions in the search under Collections. So I am assuming it cannot be that.

I know that P5 reserves the right to lower pricing for non-exclusive contributors if they believe its too high for that type of asset, but when I checked the listed price they are listed as $57.00, not $26.00. See below.


I am interested in what other P5 contributors are experiencing with their sales there, after the SS takeover, plus it might be a good opportunity to collect some collective info here. Plus any thoughts.


« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2022, 04:09 »
0
I say goodbye to them.

« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2022, 04:39 »
+1
Today I sold 3 clips on P5, and 2 of them were discounted by over 50%. I checked and none of those clips are available as subscriptions when you filter as Subscriptions in the search under Collections. So I am assuming it cannot be that.

I know that P5 reserves the right to lower pricing for non-exclusive contributors if they believe its too high for that type of asset, but when I checked the listed price they are listed as $57.00, not $26.00.

Hi Annie, maybe it could be other thing....
if your content is being sold in other marketplace by less P5 will match same price. This was introduced by p5 in 2018/2019 contributor agreement. However they change a little bit lately (some months before the SSTK merge).

If you go to section 3. Pricing and Your Share of Net License Revenue, article v in contributor Agreement (link : https://www.pond5.com/legal/contributor)

"notwithstanding anything to the contrary provided in this Section 3.a., you shall not set the price for an item of Content that is higher than the lowest price for which the same (or substantially the same) Content item is offered by or on any other media marketplace, agency or other redistribution arrangement (each an "Other Marketplace"), and if we discover that the Content item is offered at a lower price by or on any Other Marketplace, we may lower the price in our marketplace to match or beat that price."

 

 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 04:44 by Evaristo tenscadisto »

« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2022, 05:46 »
+1
Today I sold 3 clips on P5, and 2 of them were discounted by over 50%. I checked and none of those clips are available as subscriptions when you filter as Subscriptions in the search under Collections. So I am assuming it cannot be that.

I know that P5 reserves the right to lower pricing for non-exclusive contributors if they believe its too high for that type of asset, but when I checked the listed price they are listed as $57.00, not $26.00.

Hi Annie, maybe it could be other thing....
if your content is being sold in other marketplace by less P5 will match same price. This was introduced by p5 in 2018/2019 contributor agreement. However they change a little bit lately (some months before the SSTK merge).

If you go to section 3. Pricing and Your Share of Net License Revenue, article v in contributor Agreement (link : https://www.pond5.com/legal/contributor)

"notwithstanding anything to the contrary provided in this Section 3.a., you shall not set the price for an item of Content that is higher than the lowest price for which the same (or substantially the same) Content item is offered by or on any other media marketplace, agency or other redistribution arrangement (each an "Other Marketplace"), and if we discover that the Content item is offered at a lower price by or on any Other Marketplace, we may lower the price in our marketplace to match or beat that price."

 

Thanks Evaristo.

I closed my footage port on SS a couple of  weeks ago, so the only other place they are available is on AS.   


« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2022, 06:20 »
0
It's not a discount when your "List Price" and "NLR' are the same price. 

« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2022, 07:56 »
+1
You're doing better than me. I am getting $6 royalties and seriously high discounts.  It really doesn't matter how you price your clips. Their agreed pricing with clients usurps the price you put in.  Sure, there are occasions you will get a normal sale, but I haven't seen one for me in quite some time.  My income with P5 is WAY down for 2022, but not in volume, just in royalties.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 09:05 by Mantis »

« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2022, 09:04 »
+1
In my case, I see discounts of up to 30%. See below.


Besides these NLR discounts, I can also see that the listed prices are adjusted down most of the time e.g ($120 -> $102), but in some cases, they are also higher than what I asked for ($100 -> $119).

Of course, you know better, but aren't your listed prices a bit low, Annie ($26 for HD)? Is there a strategy there?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 09:06 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2022, 11:51 »
+2
Today I sold 3 clips on P5, and 2 of them were discounted by over 50%. I checked and none of those clips are available as subscriptions when you filter as Subscriptions in the search under Collections. So I am assuming it cannot be that.

I know that P5 reserves the right to lower pricing for non-exclusive contributors if they believe its too high for that type of asset, but when I checked the listed price they are listed as $57.00, not $26.00. See below.


I am interested in what other P5 contributors are experiencing with their sales there, after the SS takeover, plus it might be a good opportunity to collect some collective info here. Plus any thoughts.

You mean you guys are making sales?

« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2022, 13:34 »
+2
In my case, I see discounts of up to 30%. See below.


Besides these NLR discounts, I can also see that the listed prices are adjusted down most of the time e.g ($120 -> $102), but in some cases, they are also higher than what I asked for ($100 -> $119).

Of course, you know better, but aren't your listed prices a bit low, Annie ($26 for HD)? Is there a strategy there?

That's not my listed price, Zero. That's why I am confused.

I usually start my prices at around $60 to $70 for HD (double that for 4k), and then sometimes I notice P5 marks that down a bit. At the moment they are both 'listed' as $57.00 (refer my second attachment in my opening post), which is what P5 must have marked them down to.

So where did the $26 come from?  They are not included in P5's videos available for subscriptions. And they clearly state the sales are for HD resolution.

So, is this some kind of new discounting or subs packs that they are offering?


...

Regarding the subscriptions, this is probably the only way I can show everyone. See attached. For the first search where I have blocked out the full search term and video thumbnails, 6 videos appear, they are all mine (different layouts for that particular stop motion theme). The last clip on this search was one of the ones that sold today for $26.

However, see my second attachment, if you click on the subscription filter, none of them appear. So they shouldn't be selling for subs prices (if that is what it is)

« Last Edit: July 18, 2022, 14:49 by Annie »

« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2022, 02:14 »
0
Today I sold 3 clips on P5, and 2 of them were discounted by over 50%. I checked and none of those clips are available as subscriptions when you filter as Subscriptions in the search under Collections. So I am assuming it cannot be that.

I know that P5 reserves the right to lower pricing for non-exclusive contributors if they believe its too high for that type of asset, but when I checked the listed price they are listed as $57.00, not $26.00.

Hi Annie, maybe it could be other thing....
if your content is being sold in other marketplace by less P5 will match same price. This was introduced by p5 in 2018/2019 contributor agreement. However they change a little bit lately (some months before the SSTK merge).

If you go to section 3. Pricing and Your Share of Net License Revenue, article v in contributor Agreement (link : https://www.pond5.com/legal/contributor)

"notwithstanding anything to the contrary provided in this Section 3.a., you shall not set the price for an item of Content that is higher than the lowest price for which the same (or substantially the same) Content item is offered by or on any other media marketplace, agency or other redistribution arrangement (each an "Other Marketplace"), and if we discover that the Content item is offered at a lower price by or on any Other Marketplace, we may lower the price in our marketplace to match or beat that price."

 

Thanks Evaristo.

I closed my footage port on SS a couple of  weeks ago, so the only other place they are available is on AS.

Annie, I'm quite surprised you turned off your footage port on Shutterstock. You feel the commission's are no longer acceptable?

« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2022, 03:57 »
0
Today I sold 3 clips on P5, and 2 of them were discounted by over 50%. I checked and none of those clips are available as subscriptions when you filter as Subscriptions in the search under Collections. So I am assuming it cannot be that.

I know that P5 reserves the right to lower pricing for non-exclusive contributors if they believe its too high for that type of asset, but when I checked the listed price they are listed as $57.00, not $26.00.

Hi Annie, maybe it could be other thing....
if your content is being sold in other marketplace by less P5 will match same price. This was introduced by p5 in 2018/2019 contributor agreement. However they change a little bit lately (some months before the SSTK merge).

If you go to section 3. Pricing and Your Share of Net License Revenue, article v in contributor Agreement (link : https://www.pond5.com/legal/contributor)

"notwithstanding anything to the contrary provided in this Section 3.a., you shall not set the price for an item of Content that is higher than the lowest price for which the same (or substantially the same) Content item is offered by or on any other media marketplace, agency or other redistribution arrangement (each an "Other Marketplace"), and if we discover that the Content item is offered at a lower price by or on any Other Marketplace, we may lower the price in our marketplace to match or beat that price."

 

Thanks Evaristo.

I closed my footage port on SS a couple of  weeks ago, so the only other place they are available is on AS.

Annie, I'm quite surprised you turned off your footage port on Shutterstock. You feel the commission's are no longer acceptable?


Yes, I'm surprised, too!

« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2022, 05:01 »
+4
@pacesetter, @wilm. Yes, for now, but its part of a longer term plan, which will incorporate moving some of my more 'valuable' videos that do better on P5, to stop SS from selling them off too cheaply. Clips such as my green screens and stop motions do much better on P5. And I cringe every time I see SS or AS sell them off too cheaply.

My July to August video sales are always traditional low with less buyers around, so its a good time to start moving things around. Its going to take a while because there are several hundred of them. SS & AS (and P5 standard account) can do what they like with the other portion of my 3,000+ files.

Long term, I'm going to put these files on my P5 exclusive account, which I haven't used for a while.  As long as SS doesn't mess around with the P5 Exclusives agreement, I should be OK. And I can price them according to what I want. 

I've been wanting to do this for awhile, but reading the P5 agreement that Evaristo linked above, confirmed this for me:

Quote
notwithstanding anything to the contrary provided in this Section 3.a., you shall not set the price for an item of Content that is higher than the lowest price for which the same (or substantially the same) Content item is offered by or on any other media marketplace, agency or other redistribution arrangement (each an "Other Marketplace"), and if we discover that the Content item is offered at a lower price by or on any Other Marketplace, we may lower the price in our marketplace to match or beat that price.

With exclusive files, you can avoid that problem. And with the files that I have had on P5 Exclusive in the past, P5 never changed my prices - plus you get 60% (fingers crossed, it doesn't change).

My stop motions are very good money earners - especially on P5. They are unique, good earners & the holiday ones are very popular especially during the holiday season (Halloween through to Easter), plus I invested a lot of time and props into producing them.

https://www.milleflore.com/446832331

I found one guy on P5 copying some of them, but he only did the easy ones. lol


« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 05:46 by Annie »

« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2022, 06:50 »
+1
Sounds like a good plan, Annie.

« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2022, 07:12 »
+2
@annie I sincerly wish you the best of success.

I also have an empty exclusive account and am considering to fill it with what I believe deserves a better price and will probably not sell in high volume.

However, I really wonder for how long exclusive accounts with 60% and where you can choose your price will continue to exist.

Maybe we get  lucky and they leave us be for a few years at least.

But I will only use it with new content and I will continue to spread files everywhere.

Ideally no agency/marketplace is more than 20% of my income. So if a disaster happens, I can easily go on.




« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2022, 07:35 »
+2
@annie I sincerly wish you the best of success.

I also have an empty exclusive account and am considering to fill it with what I believe deserves a better price and will probably not sell in high volume.

However, I really wonder for how long exclusive accounts with 60% and where you can choose your price will continue to exist.

Maybe we get  lucky and they leave us be for a few years at least.

But I will only use it with new content and I will continue to spread files everywhere.

Ideally no agency/marketplace is more than 20% of my income. So if a disaster happens, I can easily go on.

Thanks Jasmin.

I am just so sick and tired of not being in control of my own video pricing. Some of it I understand, but with other parts of my work, I just refuse to buy into this underpricing-to-sell-more concept that some of these agencies are getting into. It just doesn't work.

What about Stocksy? Wouldn't that be a good place to put your exclusive work?


...

Thanks @Pace !

« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2022, 08:47 »
+1
I just got a couple of sales both sold for more than I asked for:

1st one, 4K: asked for $100, listed for $102, sold for $161,6
2nd one, HD: asked for $50, listed for $50, sold for $58,33

Now, I'm going to raise the asked prices for both.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 08:58 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2022, 13:44 »
0
@annie it is a fantastic place for very high end content, especially photos.

But most of what I am doing right now does not have high enough quality.

I have made very good sales in both video and photos in the last years with the authentic social media type content. I.e. looks like it was done by amateurs, but actually really done with a good eye to detail.

The content is often visually ugly, but it really sells to all the people that need content that can blend in without having the vibe of I was shot by an award winning artist.

Stocksy is an editor driven collection, it is not a self selling platform where I can do whatever I want.

But that is why it has this very beautiful look.

My other problem is when I work with other people, they are all not on stocksy, so the content can only be non exclusive.

I do want to work on my skills and hope to finally find a niche I can supply them with.

But especially for video I want to very methodically work on what is simply missing and a lot of that content cannot have any kind of artsy vibe to get sales.

So I really want to have a webstore that is just mine, where I dont have to consider what an editor might think.

The original pond5 was just perfect :(

But I believe in a market economy. If Shutterstock ruins the place, the content will go elsewhere and eventually the clients will follow.

It is very frustrating that these platform owners favor very short term thinking, but I guess in a bonus driven management system, that is the price you pay.

Longterm companies are often a family business or at least have an owner who wants to stay.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 13:48 by cobalt »

« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2022, 14:09 »
+1
I just got a couple of sales both sold for more than I asked for:

1st one, 4K: asked for $100, listed for $102, sold for $161,6
2nd one, HD: asked for $50, listed for $50, sold for $58,33

Now, I'm going to raise the asked prices for both.

(Oh, to have your port. Sigh!)

Well done. Yes, keep raising those prices! Show them it can be done.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 14:19 by Annie »

« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2022, 14:17 »
0
@annie it is a fantastic place for very high end content, especially photos.

But most of what I am doing right now does not have high enough quality.

I have made very good sales in both video and photos in the last years with the authentic social media type content. I.e. looks like it was done by amateurs, but actually really done with a good eye to detail.

The content is often visually ugly, but it really sells to all the people that need content that can blend in without having the vibe of I was shot by an award winning artist.

Stocksy is an editor driven collection, it is not a self selling platform where I can do whatever I want.

But that is why it has this very beautiful look.

My other problem is when I work with other people, they are all not on stocksy, so the content can only be non exclusive.

I do want to work on my skills and hope to finally find a niche I can supply them with.

But especially for video I want to very methodically work on what is simply missing and a lot of that content cannot have any kind of artsy vibe to get sales.

So I really want to have a webstore that is just mine, where I dont have to consider what an editor might think.

The original pond5 was just perfect :(

But I believe in a market economy. If Shutterstock ruins the place, the content will go elsewhere and eventually the clients will follow.

It is very frustrating that these platform owners favor very short term thinking, but I guess in a bonus driven management system, that is the price you pay.

Longterm companies are often a family business or at least have an owner who wants to stay.

Thanks for that explanation.

I like that 'authentic' alternative look of places like Stocksy. Super cool and very clever.

Yes, I have to get a webstore. My website is getting a bit long in the tooth.

« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2022, 14:34 »
0
Stocksy is absolutely fantastic.

And especially for lgbt content and a lot of political lifestyle I think they have by far the best collection. They also have authentic content with real people, but the quality is so outstanding it again has the award winning artist vibe. Very high end, very well produced.

But there is a huge world of content depicting the real world, in all its ugliness, that is missing from most agencies. I think part of the reason is that they are run by people who have had so many years of visual art training, that they cannot just drop the artsy filter and the instinct to beautify the world around them.

If I put on my buyers hat, this is the content I would be interested to buy, or at least I would have wanted to buy in my old business life.

Authentic reality content, real world ugliness, but shot with a great attention to usefulness.

Eyeem has a ton of that stuff, but they never presented it properly. IMO they were literally sitting on a gold mine, but only marketed the artsy images.

But artsy is not rare. Done on the level of stocksy, yes, that is special.

But allover the net are people doing artsy and often giving them away for free. Everybody loves to do art.

Nobody wants to document reality in a useful way.

Maybe I should be grateful.

ETA:

I guess I should start my own label - Ugly real world stock-

😂
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 14:37 by cobalt »

« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2022, 16:24 »
+4
I am exclusive on Pond5. Yesterday i had 2 sales.

1. List price 119 usd, my share 13 usd
2. List price 109 usd, my share 13 usd

License type is called: enterprise

I dont want to hear contributor agreement shits from anyone, i will try to get out of pond5 and its partners immediately.

« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2022, 17:16 »
+3
I am exclusive on Pond5. Yesterday i had 2 sales.

1. List price 119 usd, my share 13 usd
2. List price 109 usd, my share 13 usd

License type is called: enterprise

I dont want to hear contributor agreement shits from anyone, i will try to get out of pond5 and its partners immediately.

Oh god, that's terrible. :-(

Thank you so much for that feedback.

« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2022, 00:17 »
+2
Another $10.40 commission today on another stop motion clip, that is actually listed as $57.00 next to the video. 

HD   $26   Individual License 20200505   $26   $10.40

« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2022, 01:47 »
+2
I am exclusive on Pond5. Yesterday i had 2 sales.

1. List price 119 usd, my share 13 usd
2. List price 109 usd, my share 13 usd

License type is called: enterprise

I dont want to hear contributor agreement shits from anyone, i will try to get out of pond5 and its partners immediately.

So basically producers have lost control over pricing.

That was the most important, unique factor of pond5.

A webstore where you control the price.

« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2022, 02:30 »
+3
It has been discussed over and over again. Pond5 sets different prices for different markets/countries. Use a proxy and see that for yourself. Nothing to do with discounts. People choose to believe in the strangest conspiracies even when the explanation is right before their eyes. Not defending pond5 btw, what they do is highly questionable.


 

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