Hi All. I have been a Pond5 contributor since 2012. While I do not have a ton of clips up there (300 or so), I have some unique clips. 2017 I averaged over $400/month (with less footage up there). 2018 much more volatile with best month being $621 and worst being $235.

2019 however peaked in February and has been dropping like a rock ever since with last month sales being $70.

Has anyone else experienced drop off? Did they change their algorithm or something?

Check the Pond5 forums. They were/are conducting a test. This test puts a $50 price cap on some searches, and a $80 on others. So if you have clips priced above those price points, Pond5 have intentionally been excluding your clips from the search results. If they can't be be found, they cannot possibly have a chance to sell. Then some staff rep had the nerve to make a post in that thread saying that the test results were positive, which of course means positive for Pond5's bottom line. That excludes everyone he was directly talking to in the forums, who unanimously expressed disappointment and frustration at what's clearly a factor in widely experienced sales drops. This is how disconnected they have become from their former identity of being the most contributor-friendly stock site. Those days seem to be officially over.

He added that they can't be bothered to inform us when they run these asinine tests. Be prepared for a lot more of this non-sense.

This is due to subscription plans on other agencies guyd..be aware that supporting those subscription plan agencies you will lose sales elsewhere..
Btw it's only a test that will end soon,but artists are wsrned that they can't sell the same clips for peanuts on subscription and sell it elsewhere at normal price with no consequences..

Hi All. I have been a Pond5 contributor since 2012. While I do not have a ton of clips up there (300 or so), I have some unique clips. 2017 I averaged over $400/month (with less footage up there). 2018 much more volatile with best month being $621 and worst being $235.

2019 however peaked in February and has been dropping like a rock ever since with last month sales being $70.

Has anyone else experienced drop off? Did they change their algorithm or something?

My story is equal to yours, same number of clips, sales and same drop in sales. My last 4 months have been very low.
The only difference is that I started in 2015 on Pond5.
Looking at the prices of the competition clips, yes they were lowered the values, by Pond5 I think.
When this happened to me, I raised my prices as they were before.
Maybe I was penalized in the search for results.
  Similar videos to mine by some competitors are between $ 25 and $ 50 for HD and I was between $ 59 and $ 79.
Some videos, which I did not sell or with very little sales, I lowered the value to $ 49 for who knows, be in search of results.
The clips that I always had excellent sales kept the same values of $ 69 and $ 79 HD

But yes, tough times in Pond5, at least for me too.

�.. The imagery market it at its end.

not at all - demand is still growing, but supply is growing much faster - it's just becoming harder to make the kind of $ we could a year ago

Quote from: liveoutloud on August 02, 2019, 06:51

Hi All. I have been a Pond5 contributor since 2012. While I do not have a ton of clips up there (300 or so), I have some unique clips. 2017 I averaged over $400/month (with less footage up there). 2018 much more volatile with best month being $621 and worst being $235.

2019 however peaked in February and has been dropping like a rock ever since with last month sales being $70.

Has anyone else experienced drop off? Did they change their algorithm or something?

My story is equal to yours, same number of clips, sales and same drop in sales. My last 4 months have been very low.
The only difference is that I started in 2015 on Pond5.
Looking at the prices of the competition clips, yes they were lowered the values, by Pond5 I think.
When this happened to me, I raised my prices as they were before.
Maybe I was penalized in the search for results.
  Similar videos to mine by some competitors are between $ 25 and $ 50 for HD and I was between $ 59 and $ 79.
Some videos, which I did not sell or with very little sales, I lowered the value to $ 49 for who knows, be in search of results.
The clips that I always had excellent sales kept the same values of $ 69 and $ 79 HD

But yes, tough times in Pond5, at least for me too.

Fairly similar story here, except I started at P5 in 2009. My income rose steadily, peaking in 2014, but maintained about the same level all the years through last year. But this year has been a disaster.

As others have said, it isn't just P5. I had the worst month in a decade on SS: 2 sales the entire month! I didn't even know that was possible. In fact, across all sites, last month was my worst month since January 2010 (when my port had about 3 dozen clips in it, ha!). 

Check the Pond5 forums. They were/are conducting a test. This test puts a $50 price cap on some searches, and a $80 on others.

As shady as one could consider that test to be, it was only live during these last two weeks, so hardly responsible for any slowdown since February...

Demand is growing, supply is growing faster. It really is as simple as that in my opinion. It's not easy anymore, and even with the best clips around it's a struggle to be seen.

It seems a lot of people have a hard time understanding that the chance of YOUR clip being in front of the eyes of a buyer at the right time when there are 17.5 MILLION clips to choose from is pretty small. We humans can't imagine how great of a number 1 million is.

When something is easy to make and the equipment required to make it now is available to most people, supply goes up and the price comes down.

I don't think many (if ANY) contributors actually make much more than $1.50 per video clip per month....

Well actually...

...(not animations)

Ah, ok... never mind! 

$1.49 per clip per month for 2019 so far. They've been increasing again (slightly) from a bit of a dip though... if you don't include January then it's $1.59... and if you go just on the last three months then it's $1.67.   

"As shady as one could consider that test to be, it was only live during these last two weeks, so hardly responsible for any slowdown since February..."

THIS test had only been running that long. And it most definitely would have caused a massive slowdown for any sellers offering clips above the excluded price points. In case you didn't know, this test was accidentally stumbled upon by a contributor. That's not "considered" to be shady, that's straight-up behind the back betrayal of trust. It's also likely that several other asinine tests have been running since February and before. Remember, Pond5 refuses to inform us of these tests. It is incredibly naive to assume this was the only sales damaging blunder they've made this year.

"It seems a lot of people have a hard time understanding that the chance of YOUR clip being in front of the eyes of a buyer at the right time when there are 17.5 MILLION clips to choose from is pretty small."

What a condescending comment. And the irony is the failure to understand that search results don't bring up every clip every made. On a specific given search term, a clip isn't competing with "17.5 million clips". Many searches have fewer than 500 results, many other niche topics less than 100. When Pond5 excludes every clip over $50 or $80 from a search, that is a major problem that more contributors in that price range should be aware of, and very vocal about. Attacking the intelligence of the contributors who are actively speaking up about this is just unnecessarily rude. Try to comprehend that.

THIS test had only been running that long. And it most definitely would have caused a massive slowdown for any sellers offering clips above the excluded price points.

Yes, and you replied using that as the reason that liveoutloud's sales had "been dropping like a rock" since February. So we should have interpreted that as them ruining sales on purpose since February?

In case you didn't know, this test was accidentally stumbled upon by a contributor. That's not "considered" to be shady, that's straight-up behind the back betrayal of trust.

Yes, I have read all the posts in all of the threads regarding this. Every single one. My wording was a polite way of saying it was shady. I fully agree there.

I test the search almost every week to see if action needs to be taken. I haven't seen this price discrimination before.

It is incredibly naive to assume this was the only sales damaging blunder they've made this year.

Well, sales damaging for some does not mean sales damaging for all. You have around 35-40 people posting in the P5 threads. They make up a very, very small part of the 17.5 million total clips online.

What I find very naive is the constant talk of "caring about the individual contributor". With many thousands, this is only done by trying to raise sales on average. Some individuals will always suffer. Of course, in all of our minds, "me" is what is most important.

My 2019 is better than my 2018, so from my perspective the so called "sales damaging blunders" have not been sales damaging at all. And this is with the 20% non-exclusive cut since March, so the amount spent is actually a lot higher than 2018. The same would be true for SpaceStockFootage, even though that's for animations mostly. His average is close to the same DESPITE the cut.

What a condescending comment. And the irony is the failure to understand that search results don't bring up every clip every made. On a specific given search term, a clip isn't competing with "17.5 million clips". Many searches have fewer than 500 results, many other niche topics less than 100. When Pond5 excludes every clip over $50 or $80 from a search, that is a major problem that more contributors in that price range should be aware of, and very vocal about. Attacking the intelligence of the contributors who are actively speaking up about this is just unnecessarily rude. Try to comprehend that.

This wasn't directed at you, and I apologize if you interpreted it that way. BUT, I stand by that many of the P5 posters SEEM to not understand the basics of an incredibly high increase in supply. Just because they sold a lot when it was easier does not mean it will stay that way forever.

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on August 03, 2019, 09:09

Quote from: Daryl Ray on August 03, 2019, 08:07

THIS test had only been running that long. And it most definitely would have caused a massive slowdown for any sellers offering clips above the excluded price points.

Yes, and you replied using that as the reason that liveoutloud's sales had "been dropping like a rock" since February. So we should have interpreted that as them ruining sales on purpose since February?

Quote from: Daryl Ray on August 03, 2019, 08:07

In case you didn't know, this test was accidentally stumbled upon by a contributor. That's not "considered" to be shady, that's straight-up behind the back betrayal of trust.

Yes, I have read all the posts in all of the threads regarding this. Every single one. My wording was a polite way of saying it was shady. I fully agree there.

I test the search almost every week to see if action needs to be taken. I haven't seen this price discrimination before.

Quote from: Daryl Ray on August 03, 2019, 08:07

It is incredibly naive to assume this was the only sales damaging blunder they've made this year.

Well, sales damaging for some does not mean sales damaging for all. You have around 35-40 people posting in the P5 threads. They make up a very, very small part of the 17.5 million total clips online.

What I find very naive is the constant talk of "caring about the individual contributor". With many thousands, this is only done by trying to raise sales on average. Some individuals will always suffer. Of course, in all of our minds, "me" is what is most important.

My 2019 is better than my 2018, so from my perspective the so called "sales damaging blunders" have not been sales damaging at all. And this is with the 20% non-exclusive cut since March, so the amount spent is actually a lot higher than 2018. The same would be true for SpaceStockFootage, even though that's for animations mostly. His average is close to the same DESPITE the cut.

Quote from: Daryl Ray on August 03, 2019, 08:07

What a condescending comment. And the irony is the failure to understand that search results don't bring up every clip every made. On a specific given search term, a clip isn't competing with "17.5 million clips". Many searches have fewer than 500 results, many other niche topics less than 100. When Pond5 excludes every clip over $50 or $80 from a search, that is a major problem that more contributors in that price range should be aware of, and very vocal about. Attacking the intelligence of the contributors who are actively speaking up about this is just unnecessarily rude. Try to comprehend that.

This wasn't directed at you, and I apologize if you interpreted it that way. BUT, I stand by that many of the P5 posters SEEM to not understand the basics of an incredibly high increase in supply. Just because they sold a lot when it was easier does not mean it will stay that way forever.

Too true.

I see a lot of contributors complaining that have been with P5 a while.
And I also see a lot of really good new contributors too.
Always got to keep an eye on the competition, why am I selling less? Perhaps its because there are newer better clips than mine?
Metaphorically speaking.

Also with reference to the 17.5 million clips being in direct competition with each other.
Type in say "young millennial caucasian couple romantic"
And there's 1400 clips.

Filming a drone view of the countryside at sunset might be different.

I sometimes despair at the amount of clips there are, then I look at the amount of clips in direct competition to mine and there aren`t that many. 1000 to 100 depending on the search and subject.

contributors at pond5 are complaining a sudden huge drop from april...
if it was all about competition and new contributors like you said  the drop would be slow and steady....

Whow!

How do the people that went exclusive feel now?

Some people pulled their ports from other agencies and brought everything to pond5.

But unless they priced everything at the lowest possible price for 4k all their content is excluded from the searches?!

I thought the whole idea of going exclusive was to help stabilize prices??

This is a very dishonest move. They should have warned all artists that their income will drop drastically during that test.

Read the post above you. The footage game is between P5 and Shutter everything else is miles off. So to be exclusive or have exclusive files there it is a clever decision. Now competition in video is becoming as fierce as in the photo still images world.

Lots of people are uploading videos with decent quality now. Just recently we have gotten capable cameras, gimbals, drones,..... without breaking the bank, people have learned Davinci, Premiere,FCP etc and are all entering this new game in masses. So the result with clients not absorbing all this new material is what we all know. On top of that more and more agencies are entering with very aggressive prices the subscription field. It is not P5 that is/will suffer, it is SS it is Getty it is Adobe,Stocksy,....most veterans footage submitters will feel the hit.

Exclusivity is a way to differentiate themselves and try to stop the race to the bottom. P5 Getty Stocksy are developing the right strategy in this regard. And P5 has the fairest deal for contributors of the mentioned ones. Nothing dishonest about that.

Maybe you really should think twice before flaming someone who does not deserve it.

Whow!

How do the people that went exclusive feel now?

Some people pulled their ports from other agencies and brought everything to pond5.

But unless they priced everything at the lowest possible price for 4k all their content is excluded from the searches?!

I thought the whole idea of going exclusive was to help stabilize prices??

This is a very dishonest move. They should have warned all artists that their income will drop drastically during that test.

I got two video sales for $6/ each on pond5!  How can it happen when all my HD videos $78 in all size ?  Pond5 was my fav agency...  Last month 0 sales. No way. Im disappointed.

Same here. 3 separate clips priced at $79 got me a $14.50 royalty. My sales are up but these "LLP" licenses seem to be them just making up any price to get a sale. The industry standard $23 commission has dropped to $14 across the board. Dissolve is doing it along with P5 and of course, SS has their $1.50 clip sales. Maybe the volume of stock clips being bought will eventually make up for the low prices but let's ask some photographers how that worked out for them.

Ah, got it. The ones going on about those taking issue with Pond5 excluding clips above $50 in search results are already bottom feeding sellers. That's why you're not upset, because you're already selling way below industry standards and this test did not affect you.

I find the sense of self-important ego d**k waving in in these rooms nauseating.

When the industry had 12 million stock photos I was earning up to 450 dollars a day on a port of 3000 images...

12 million video files is nothing. When the agencies started to have several hundred million photo files...that is when the actual oversupply started.

I donˋt get the drastic drop in video prices, there is barely enough content for the serious buyer.

Ok, sunsets, clouds and grass in the wind is oversupplied, but well done professional clips?

I mean the planet has more food recipes than the agencies have files.

What pond5 is doing just doesn�t make sense.

There is A LOT they can do to improve the buyer interface to make it much easier to search and collect files.

But to just exclude content from a search by selecting a price point?

Why would they do that?

And how do the exclusive artists benefit?

Do they have to drop all their prices to 50 dollars to remain visible?

Noone is reporting an increase in sales.

demand for video is much much much much lower than photo i'd say lower much more than 20 times....12 million are a lot compared to the demand.
[/quote]

It's an interesting analysis:

   - video demand much lower than stills: "20:1"
   - video payout/dl much higher than stills: 50:1? (requires an analysis)
   - effort to produce video vs. effort to produce stills: higher, but how much higher...still need compelling subject matter...that is the toughest part, hard to quantify

What pond5 is doing just doesn�t make sense.

There is A LOT they can do to improve the buyer interface to make it much easier to search and collect files.

But to just exclude content from a search by selecting a price point?

Why would they do that?

And how do the exclusive artists benefit?

Do they have to drop all their prices to 50 dollars to remain visible?

Noone is reporting an increase in sales.

Someone already said here it has having a best month. In my case my sales are also increasing but I am new to the game in footage. I was also doing 500-600$ /day in 2012 but that was because Istock management pushed by Getty and vulture equity Hellman & Friedman went totally crazy pushing up prices well beyond what was tolerable with Vettas and Agencies to the point they lost thousands of customers in moths. We got all a quick money grab and H&F could inflate the numbers to make an apotheosis sale.

There was enough content in 2012 we just have now more repeats of everything diluting libraries.

There is enough footage content in libraries like P5 and Shutterstock beyond sunsets and city timelapses. As has been said it is pointless to compare to still images. Some said the proportion is 20 images sales for every video. I would elevate that at least to 1 to 100.

Pond5 is experimenting with prices all the time so does Getty/Istock so does Shutterstock. They have to to be skin close to the market. They have all the data of searches preferences etc that we don't have by a long shot. We can disagree or vilify them as much as we want. They have to look for the bigger picture that works for them not for any of us. Even if they piss off some contributors with their actions they still will take those actions that benefit their bottom lines.

It is the same game it has always been. You play by their rules and adapt to make a win win scenario with the given situation. Sometimes you cannot make it a win scenario for you and you drop out or do not accept deals. I have with a few agencies already while 95% of the ones in the list of the right I have never given them 1 asset as it was just a waste of time. In footage there are only a few ones we all know that work. I rather have the likes like P5 to succeed lowering prices and not losing customers like others that give unlimited content for a few dollars subscription or sell footage for cents.

So basically you are saying 12 million video files is similar to 400 million stock photos?

And now the only solution is to go ultra low in price and it is best
if pond5 does that first?

Then why not encourage the exclusive artists to offer content for 50 dollars? Or even less?

Basically it sounds like stock video is already over and producers should try to figure out what other medium is coming up next for higher production value?

Or only do 8k (16k) video?

pond5 has 400 000 files in their membership program, so they are playing that game too.

400 million where?
ss has 280...in addiction how many video are sold? probably one video every 1000 sale of photos.....so yes 12 millions video considering the demand are a lot of off...so that's why video prices are going down like a rocket...probably in the next year they will be much much lower even for credit or on demand.

The problem with the 50 dollar cap is that it was NOT communicated to the artists, especially the people that just went exclusive and pulled their content from other places for pond5.

Suddenly their content became invisible in searches on the only agency they had files left.

Pond5 was probably one of the most trusted and contributor friendly agencies the industry had.

I have had fantastic experiences with pond5, their artist support staff is amazing.

But pulling stunts like these just makes no sense.

It comes across as extremly desperate and abrupt.

If pond5 sees no future above the 50 dollar file, then why should people go exclusive with them?

The reason to promote and support pond5 is that it is a plattform where artists can set their own prices.

If they wanted a fixed price and especially a low value price, they could have kept their content elsewhere.

Going exclusive then having your content removed from the searches...not funny...

I see loads of stuff missing in the video stock market, but if the price is pushed down so drastically and agencies believe the �proper� price point is a few dollars, then there is no point in producing it, because the high volume sales are not there.

But pond5 should communicate clearly what they want to do, if they prefer the 50 dollar price point, then they should let people now so they can adjust their production.

No point investing in what you do, if pond5 believes the market for higher priced content is now dead.

This may explain my sudden drop.
Generally on average $250 - $300 a month from the 15th to 15th billing period.  Fairly consistently for a fair amount of time.  Not much but it all helps.

Suddenly this paying period instead of that average ive made a grand total of 1 sale for a massive $2.80.  Combined with that my views have dropped significantly literally overnight.

Maybe its a coincidence but quite possibly the cap is hitting me.  I had no idea there was a trial cap until i saw this thread (and had no idea P5 had a forum).

@VisualLab, I respect your opinion. I just want to clarify that I didn't said in any way that wedding or event videography in general is bad paying.