Author Topic: Pond5 Contributor Agreement Update (Read 3526 times)

gnirtS · « **Reply #25 on:** December 11, 2024, 14:45 »

Quote from: fotoroad on December 11, 2024, 14:44

This year make me Adobe alone more money for video than ,,SSPond5Pond5Exclusive,, together. Why??? Less greedy? Better management?

Easily integrated with the major editing software globally.

alexandersr · « **Reply #26 on:** December 11, 2024, 14:46 »

Quote from: PCDMedia on December 11, 2024, 14:38

20% royalty cut for P5 Exclusives is a significant reduction.

Perhaps time to drop P5 Exl and apply to BlackBox to try the "spray and pray" approach.

Pond5 is going in the same direction as Shutterstock, 10% royalty, give time to time!

Shutter Angle · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2024, 14:52 »

I use Shutterstock for uploading all the images that I used to upload to Wirestock.
Anything that's not good enough for Adobe Stock.
Will do the same with Pond5 for video now.

jjneff · « **Reply #28 on:** December 11, 2024, 15:54 »

Hear me out. I did stock video full time for 10 years. Services like BlackBox and wirestock are starting to make more sense. You can sell on your own and set your own prices on wirestock. I am changing it up a bit here in order to maximize my income. I know but wirestock….. and so on. I have and am selling in my own as well there and it is working. BlackBox now makes more sense then Pond5 Exclusive. Think time and money people. It’s a business for me nothing personal.

gnirtS · « **Reply #29 on:** December 11, 2024, 16:14 »

Quote from: jjneff on December 11, 2024, 15:54

Hear me out. I did stock video full time for 10 years. Services like BlackBox and wirestock are starting to make more sense. You can sell on your own and set your own prices on wirestock. I am changing it up a bit here in order to maximize my income. I know but wirestock….. and so on. I have and am selling in my own as well there and it is working. BlackBox now makes more sense then Pond5 Exclusive. Think time and money people. It’s a business for me nothing personal.

Blackbox started to make economic sense for me when SS introduced the level system (and made it near impossible for Level 6 for normal, non mass agency submitters). I resisted as P5/AS got me my income without having to pay extra to an agency.
Ironically, i signed up to BB this week as a test (not uploaded yet) out of curiosity. This P5 announcement does make it seem more worthwhile when combined with SS and the fact P5 may well cease to exist completely in a while once its fully eaten.

stocker2011 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 11, 2024, 16:15 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 11, 2024, 13:49

The real grab is lowering dataset earnings to 20%.

Because according to all their financial statements that is their big future earnings project.

So now they get 100% more on that...

How long until they also take ai?

Do you know what the % of dataset earnings were before the announcement?

U11 · « **Reply #31 on:** December 11, 2024, 16:58 »

exciting news!

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #32 on:** December 11, 2024, 17:15 »

Interesting... non-exclusive accounts will only lose 10% while exclusive accounts will lose double which is 20%. It's crystal clear that they want to end the Exclusive in the medium term since roughly 7% does not justify the exclusive account

This is not a "Contributor Agreement Update" it is more like a "Breach of Contract of Contributor Agreement" since Pond5 announced today the failure to delivery the percentages agreed for the sale services P5 provides for non-exclusive and exclusive accounts, 40% and 60% respectively, for the copyright works of contributors. In law terms its simply called a "NEW CONTRACT AGREEMENT" but it seems pond5 is trying to sell it like an "Contract Amendment" by using marketing language strategies like "Contributor Agreement Update". It's not. It's simply new contract.

A contract amendment is a change, correction, clarification, or deletion of unworthy/invalid aspects to an agreement you have already signed. An amendment leaves your original agreement substantially intact but never when values of services like income, salary, profits are object of change. For example, if you change a worker's salary you have to sign a new contract. But if you just want to change some aspects of services such as dates or working conditions etc. in that case it is a contract amendment.

So this truly means contributors must not have to provide “a minimum of 180 days written notice (by email to [email protected]) of such termination of (the “Exclusive Period”)” like is stated in the current Contributor Agreement. At this point Exclusive Contributors in P5 can change to non-exclusive, exit or upload to other sites too without waiting 180 days.

It's a new contract and "Exciting" Bad one....

.
I am slowly removing from P5 to other kind of work avenues.

wollwerth · « **Reply #33 on:** December 11, 2024, 17:40 »

Quote from: Evaristo tenscadisto on December 11, 2024, 17:15

Interesting... non-exclusive accounts will only lose 10% while exclusive accounts will lose double which is 20%. It's crystal clear that they want to end the Exclusive in the medium term since roughly 7% does not justify the exclusive account

This is not a "Contributor Agreement Update" it is more like a "Breach of Contract of Contributor Agreement" since Pond5 announced today the failure to delivery the percentages agreed for the sale services P5 provides for non-exclusive and exclusive accounts, 40% and 60% respectively, for the copyright works of contributors. In law terms its simply called a "NEW CONTRACT AGREEMENT" but it seems pond5 is trying to sell it like an "Contract Amendment" by using marketing language strategies like "Contributor Agreement Update". It's not. It's simply new contract.

A contract amendment is a change, correction, clarification, or deletion of unworthy/invalid aspects to an agreement you have already signed. An amendment leaves your original agreement substantially intact but never when values of services like income, salary, profits are object of change. For example, if you change a worker's salary you have to sign a new contract. But if you just want to change some aspects of services such as dates or working conditions etc. in that case it is a contract amendment.

So this truly means contributors must not have to provide “a minimum of 180 days written notice (by email to [email protected]) of such termination of (the “Exclusive Period”)” like is stated in the current Contributor Agreement. At this point Exclusive Contributors in P5 can change to non-exclusive, exit or upload to other sites too without waiting 180 days.

It's a new contract and "Exciting" Bad one.... .
I am slowly removing from P5 to other kind of work avenues.

This is the way I'm treating it. A change of commission rate is a change in the contract. I just uploaded my first batch to another agency.

PCDMedia · « **Reply #34 on:** December 11, 2024, 17:53 »

Quote from: Evaristo tenscadisto on December 11, 2024, 17:15

So this truly means contributors must not have to provide “a minimum of 180 days written notice (by email to [email protected]) of such termination of (the “Exclusive Period”)” like is stated in the current Contributor Agreement. At this point Exclusive Contributors in P5 can change to non-exclusive, exit or upload to other sites too without waiting 180 days.

The current contrib agreement says that - ... "you terminate your enrollment in the Program by providing us with at least 180 days written notice

So IMO that means the 180 days is a minimum period - but can be earlier.

cobalt · « **Reply #35 on:** December 11, 2024, 19:30 »

Quote from: stocker2011 on December 11, 2024, 16:15

Quote from: cobalt on December 11, 2024, 13:49
The real grab is lowering dataset earnings to 20%.

Because according to all their financial statements that is their big future earnings project.

So now they get 100% more on that...

How long until they also take ai?

Do you know what the % of dataset earnings were before the announcement?

Assuming it was 40%/60% respectively

so for exclusive content the drop is even larger

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #36 on:** December 11, 2024, 19:45 »

Quote from: PCDMedia on December 11, 2024, 17:53

Quote from: Evaristo tenscadisto on December 11, 2024, 17:15

So this truly means contributors must not have to provide “a minimum of 180 days written notice (by email to [email protected]) of such termination of (the “Exclusive Period”)” like is stated in the current Contributor Agreement. At this point Exclusive Contributors in P5 can change to non-exclusive, exit or upload to other sites too without waiting 180 days.

The current contrib agreement says that - ... "you terminate your enrollment in the Program by providing us with at least 180 days written notice

So IMO that means the 180 days is a minimum period - but can be earlier.

The current contract is in force since 2024-08-22. Note that even if a exclusive contributor change is mind to drop is account on 21st of August 2024 he/she could not comply even with 180 days notice because already a new contract arrived on 12th December 2024. That's why the current contract we don't see a version/update or Amendment. You only see "This agreement is effective as of 2024-08-22" which means the date of celebration of contract and not followed by contract amendment/update.

They sell you the idea of an update but its always a new contract.

I just ask for some legal opinions (good to have family with knowledge of law) between judge and lawyers all of them point out to "breach of contract". They not just change the value structure of copyright works as it is impossible to opt out in 180 days when a "New Contract" starts at 15th January. In other words not possible to comply 6 months of notice when they give 1 month to accept what they call it an "Contract update".

So if you do not accept it you don't have to give 180 days.
You can delete all your work from today till 14th of January without the need of writing to them since "Breach of contract" was announced by them.

jamesbenet · « **Reply #37 on:** December 11, 2024, 19:52 »

Merry Christmas, you now have been Pawnd5! Shutterstock truly has destroyed this site as well. Sales down, and now commissions down.

AI is becoming so good now that stock producers will not have a viable business in the near future. I am no longer optimistic about producing new content. Video AI will also replace many video productions, we are really doomed unless people crave and demand real content made by humans. Sadly it will be a niche minority.

Happy Holidays everyone, hope things get better!

cobalt · « **Reply #38 on:** December 11, 2024, 20:27 »

Have you tried creating content with ai?

I have been doing it for 2 years for stock and 4 years for fun and the amount of crappy horrible content I see every day is unbelievable.

Progress is very incremental. And if the ai cannot get it right for photos, how does it work for video?

Most importantly I see zero intelligence in the "ai".

There is a lot of exaggerated hype around these tools. They are useful, but the time to learn about them is much harder than learning how to use a camera.

Just my opinion, but I believe the best way to make money in stock is to look for what is missing and what customers need.

And an ai cannot tell you that, you have to do your own research.

As long as there are so many gigantic gaps in all collections, there is money to be made.

Ambu · « **Reply #39 on:** December 12, 2024, 02:16 »

Instead of increasing sales/promoting content, what Shutterstock is doing from last 4 years is just falling behind contributors share of earnings to increase their revenue...

cobalt · « **Reply #40 on:** December 12, 2024, 03:40 »

It is an easy money grab. And they might even delete pond5 the brand and merge all their different agencies including envato and bigstock into one place.

But even if they buy several more agencies unless they learn to make the customers happy, their client base will keep shrinking. They admit openly in their reports how they are losing clients even though they keep buying customer contracts.

I always wonder, if they had invested all that money into the original shutterstock, without changing anything - where would they stand now?

They had such an incredible team of talented people who all understood that the producers uploading are often also designers and buyers and will obviously recommend their favorite agency to new customers.

The only thing really amazing is the whining of sometimes large scale producers who are acting surprised at what everyone knew was coming for years.

If you need the money and run stock as a business...how could so many people ignore reality and not prepare?

Talk about living in a fantasy world.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #41 on:** December 12, 2024, 03:42 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 11, 2024, 20:27

Have you tried creating content with ai?

I have been doing it for 2 years for stock and 4 years for fun and the amount of crappy horrible content I see every day is unbelievable.

Progress is very incremental. And if the ai cannot get it right for photos, how does it work for video?

Most importantly I see zero intelligence in the "ai".

There is a lot of exaggerated hype around these tools. They are useful, but the time to learn about them is much harder than learning how to use a camera.

Just my opinion, but I believe the best way to make money in stock is to look for what is missing and what customers need.

And an ai cannot tell you that, you have to do your own research.

As long as there are so many gigantic gaps in all collections, there is money to be made.

I watched a few videos created by AI and uploaded to Adobe. In my opinion, most of them are not realistic, fairy-tale-like and closer to computer animation than to real video. I am sure that AI is not my competitor at the moment. I can create different videos faster and fill my niches. Many of the things I shoot, no one will even try to do with AI.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 12, 2024, 03:43 »

The only thing that worries me is the dismissal of people from the support pond5. No one answers my questions now.

cobalt · « **Reply #43 on:** December 12, 2024, 03:53 »

Agree, ai video is most useful for conceptual and imaginary content, not as a competition to photorealistic. Maybe in a few years, but as long as photo ai has so many problems, video ai cannot work.

However there is also a market for fantasy content and i am sure some early adopters are already making a killing right now.

But for me it is much easier to just do normal videos. The video market has very little content there is hardly any competition in so many areas.

Ambu · « **Reply #44 on:** December 12, 2024, 08:23 »

https://www.news18.com/world/justifiable-homicide-donations-pour-in-for-luigi-mangione-after-unitedhealthcare-ceos-murder-9153833.html

I will donate my one months microstock earnings from all agencies... if anyone do same with greedy Shutterstock Management...

mike123 · « **Reply #45 on:** December 12, 2024, 10:41 »

Quote from: Ambu on December 12, 2024, 08:23

https://www.news18.com/world/justifiable-homicide-donations-pour-in-for-luigi-mangione-after-unitedhealthcare-ceos-murder-9153833.html

I will donate my one months microstock earnings from all agencies... if anyone do same with greedy Shutterstock Management...

We need a "-1" button

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #46 on:** December 12, 2024, 12:59 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on December 12, 2024, 03:43

The only thing that worries me is the dismissal of people from the support pond5. No one answers my questions now.

See the other thread where I answered your claims. No need to post this over and over.

Quote from: mike123 on December 12, 2024, 10:41

We need a "-1" button

You have my support on that.

Bring back the fun.

There was a - vote, way back, but it was just silly sometimes, as someone would post, "Hey, it's Monday" and if they were an unpopular member, they would get -25 in an hour. Leaf removed it, I believe, to make things a little less contentious and adversarial.

But I miss it, even if people disagree with me, I recognize and support their opinions and rights.

Too bad Ambu left, they had some good points about P5

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #47 on:** December 12, 2024, 13:07 »

Quote from: cobalt on December 11, 2024, 19:30

Quote from: stocker2011 on December 11, 2024, 16:15
Quote from: cobalt on December 11, 2024, 13:49
The real grab is lowering dataset earnings to 20%.

Because according to all their financial statements that is their big future earnings project.

So now they get 100% more on that...

How long until they also take ai?

Do you know what the % of dataset earnings were before the announcement?

Assuming it was 40%/60% respectively

so for exclusive content the drop is even larger

The drop is 20% for non-exclusive and 40% for Exclusive.
Basically P5/SSTK is getting 80% of all accounts for dataset earnings starting 15th January.

I've just done the math and this will be a cut nearly 50% of total income/year for long term contributors with large portfolios.
Let's keep in mind that larger is a portfolio where more a contributor will make from dataset earnings.

The best part: it is contributor who makes content/upload/metadata and they cut is 80% for already curator work done + expenses
and the justification....
"Given their restricted use rights and narrow license scope, Dataset Earnings will now earn 20%.".
In other words ...because Ai is making a lot of money we want 80% cut and doing nothing for what we already done before.

The real question that i am thinking of... who SSTK is buying 2025?

cobalt · « **Reply #48 on:** December 12, 2024, 13:30 »

Well, they cannot buy Adobe or Getty...so...these choices will stay.

Maybe Deposit? Dreamstime?

Alamy?? Has lots of editorial...

Yes, for the exclusives the drop will be around 50%.

I think it will be interesting to see how many will now move back to Adobe...after pulling all content from there in 2020....

Evaristo tenscadisto · « **Reply #49 on:** December 12, 2024, 13:53 »

Well... Alamy makes a lot of sense to me since they already act as a P5 distributor in order to extend their video offering.
Let's wait and see

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Author Topic: Pond5 Contributor Agreement Update (Read 3526 times)

gnirtS

alexandersr

Shutter Angle

jjneff

gnirtS

stocker2011

U11

Evaristo tenscadisto

wollwerth

PCDMedia

cobalt

Evaristo tenscadisto

jamesbenet

cobalt

Ambu

cobalt

stoker2014

stoker2014

cobalt

Ambu

mike123

Uncle Pete

Evaristo tenscadisto

cobalt

Evaristo tenscadisto

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