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Author Topic: Pond5 has joined Shutterstock  (Read 9483 times)

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« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2022, 13:09 »
+6

If they are still operating as separate platforms, what was the point SS buying them?


Shutterstock gets all the profit?

Also, they said "for now" - of course they do. Otherwise all the people who abandoned Shutterstock after their royalty cut would instantly leave Pond5 as well. I am sure there will be royalty cuts in the long run...)


Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2022, 13:46 »
+1
Emotions aside, I've crunched some numbers and it's clear that average RPD for clips is on freefall at SS. These are the historical stats from my port at SS (average of $12/download since 2019). Perhaps I'll be "lucky" to be earning $4/download on average from next year. Shouldn't be called RPD anymore, should be called RIP.

Meanwhile, Pond5 is holding steady at an average of $29/download since 2019. Even though volumes are 3x less than SS, average net earnings is 7x more per clip sold. 

Links to my respective ports, mainly travel editorials:

SS: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/AlexandreRotenberg/video?rid=1595060
P5: https://www.pond5.com/artist/alexandrerotenberg?tab=footage

Thank you for the honest information.

4 dollars a download versus 29 dollars on averagehow will that work?

This is the reason so many artists left SS.

What is the average on Adobe? Certainly more than 4 dollars.

We will see what happens, but whatever is the average now on SS will probably be the future for pond5.

I've only ever sold 14 clips on AS. Port size = 425

Average RPI all time = $27

« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2022, 14:12 »
+3
27 dollars is great.

I guess i should upload more to Adobe. Sadly they dont take editorial.

(And I will keep complaining about that until they do ;). )

I will still upload to pond5 until I see a real change.

But it shows that being exclusive anywhere is not a good idea.

Pond5 had an iconic brand status. I hope they are allowed to keep their forum.

wds

« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2022, 17:45 »
+5
27 dollars is great.

I guess i should upload more to Adobe. Sadly they dont take editorial.

(And I will keep complaining about that until they do ;). )

I will still upload to pond5 until I see a real change.

But it shows that being exclusive anywhere is not a good idea.

Pond5 had an iconic brand status. I hope they are allowed to keep their forum.

I echo your sentiment. I have sold video on Adobe,...but yes it would be great if they opened it up to full Editorial for video (and full Editorial for stills as well!)

« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2022, 17:46 »
+1
Emotions aside, I've crunched some numbers and it's clear that average RPD for clips is on freefall at SS. These are the historical stats from my port at SS (average of $12/download since 2019). Perhaps I'll be "lucky" to be earning $4/download on average from next year. Shouldn't be called RPD anymore, should be called RIP.

Meanwhile, Pond5 is holding steady at an average of $29/download since 2019. Even though volumes are 3x less than SS, average net earnings is 7x more per clip sold. 

I'm not quite seeing that but a huge drop since the resets and subscription nonsense started.

Prior to that my all time average since 2010 was about $24 per download.

Now it varies wildly month to month depending what "special" offers and the algorithms mood.  Varies wildly from $5 to $18 with an average of $12.40

On my sales it seems the random subscription sales mask any reductions due to the level resets.

My P5 average is double SS but sales only about 20% by volume.



« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2022, 00:22 »
+10
Quote
Otherwise all the people who abandoned Shutterstock after their royalty cut would instantly leave Pond5 as well.

Count me as one of them.  My port at Pond 5 was officially closed today.  It's not that I hated being at P5, it's that I didn't want Oringer and his lackeys getting their hands on my content through Pond 5.  I want nothing more to do with Shitterstock and if P5 is part of that company now, then I want nothing to do with Pond 5, either.  Yes, royalty cuts will continue to come for Shutterstock and P5.  That's Shiterstock's business model: take a contributor's or non-contributor's content (in the case of recently posted lawsuits) and screw them.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 15:12 by Phil_Lowe »

« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2022, 09:12 »
+5
I can see this partnership in the future being just one massive subscription site. Thats where all this is heading.

A massive collection of subscription agencies that pay us almost nothing. SS will take P5 into the sewer along with their own business.

« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2022, 09:17 »
+4
I am waiting.......yet. When * hit the fun at SS at first, I deactivated and waited to see if they would back out or at least see if they would improve their blatant robbery. They didn't, so I quit and moved all my editorial video to P5 exclusive, while I deleted all the commercial video.

Now the SS nightmare is again at my door. Will see. If they don't change things, I will stay with P5 . If they reduce contributor commission or I start to see dollar sales, I am also out to greener pastures.

Picture doesn't look good at all. We all know what a Crook Oringer is. The new appointment on board of a second hand car salesman does not point to an encouraging direction.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2022, 16:36 »
+2
I can see this partnership in the future being just one massive subscription site. Thats where all this is heading.

A massive collection of subscription agencies that pay us almost nothing. SS will take P5 into the sewer along with their own business.

I think you have it. For a stock to be interesting to investors, the company must be growing and diversifying. This makes SSTK look better. Nothing in any of this makes me think we'll make more money or P5 will be better for being sold to SSTK. This is all about SSTK stock and values.

wds

« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2022, 16:41 »
+1
I can see this partnership in the future being just one massive subscription site. Thats where all this is heading.

A massive collection of subscription agencies that pay us almost nothing. SS will take P5 into the sewer along with their own business.

I think you have it. For a stock to be interesting to investors, the company must be growing and diversifying. This makes SSTK look better. Nothing in any of this makes me think we'll make more money or P5 will be better for being sold to SSTK. This is all about SSTK stock and values.

You make sense. However, at least from what I see, dollars AND downloads are slipping at SS relative to AS and iS....so it doesn't seem they are  doing so great from a trend perspective.

« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2022, 17:53 »
0
Is this finalized? Can anything be done by writing the SEC ?

« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2022, 02:32 »
+2
Is this finalized? Can anything be done by writing the SEC ?

I am curious - What do you think you could possibly write the SEC in this case?

« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2022, 04:55 »
+1
SSTK began to grow in mid 2020 after the cut. It reached an all time high in late 2021, but then came the decline. So they might be tempted to make a new royalty cut, and obtain companies in good standing in order to correct things. The purchase of P5 will not solve that problem, as P5 is a small company compared to SS. But it will look good in the quarterly report.

https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/SHUTTERSTOCK-INC-11660041/consensus/

OM

« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2022, 20:01 »
+6
Well, I think that SS has figured it out...when you pay peanuts, you get monkey material and the only way forward is to acquire decent material from others (Pond 5)....until it's suppliers are no longer prepared to provide new/professional material for the lack of reward being given....and then you have to acquire again until you run out of targets.
SS offers me no incentive to upload new material and I haven't for 2 years now. If enough others think the same way, then SS is a dying bizz which is (unfortunately) deserved.

« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2022, 07:48 »
+1
until you run out of targets.
New targets will keep op popping up I guess, filling the gap that the Shutterstock bomb created (assuming P5 will lower commissions). Talented videographers, able to produce high quality and unique footage, will go somewhere else and find new markets where they can sell their content at higher commissions. But for sure, the majority of the high quality content already available on P5 will not get removed, as many contributors will just leave it there as "the work is already done". A few more acquisitions down the road and Shutterstock has a high quality footage library available at bottom of the barrel subscription prices.

« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2022, 17:24 »
+1
Because of low price share of income of big platforms my guess is that, slowly, this market will be following the trends of other markets. Just like Amazon, Etsy or Skillshare contributors, i see a lot of them migrate to personal websites. The old stuff is still in those platforms but new is not.

Buyers will always follow the new stuff.

Markets are always evolving....probably this will be the future: using a few old eggs in big platforms and link the rest to your website with new fresh stuff. 

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2022, 10:16 »
+2
I can see this partnership in the future being just one massive subscription site. Thats where all this is heading.

A massive collection of subscription agencies that pay us almost nothing. SS will take P5 into the sewer along with their own business.

I think you have it. For a stock to be interesting to investors, the company must be growing and diversifying. This makes SSTK look better. Nothing in any of this makes me think we'll make more money or P5 will be better for being sold to SSTK. This is all about SSTK stock and values.

You make sense. However, at least from what I see, dollars AND downloads are slipping at SS relative to AS and iS....so it doesn't seem they are  doing so great from a trend perspective.

I did want to say, when I think, it's hard for things to get any worse, something like this comes up and proves me wrong. On the other hand, I dragged my feet, getting into video. I missed the early and the better returns, but now there's no incentive or forward looking future in Micro-Video for me.

No way anyone can call being bought out by SS a partnership or joining. This is being sold and being taken over. The usual pitch will be, we have no plans to change anything for now. Which translates into, we're making the plans right now, then we'll make the changes as soon as we figure out how to make the most money from this acquisition.

Being that it's SS behind the new ownership, I think pretty much everyone here will agree, there will be cuts and changes, more partners and subscriptions and less value for anything we do or what we might earn in the future.



with credit to Frank Norris for the concept.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 13:14 by Uncle Pete »

« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2022, 18:17 »
0
if they shutter pond5, they will start making restrictions on buying and selling to get people to move to shutterstock

so if you see pond5 start to have new restrictions added to make your life more difficult, you will know why

« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2022, 20:58 »
+2
if they shutter pond5, they will start making restrictions on buying and selling to get people to move to shutterstock

so if you see pond5 start to have new restrictions added to make your life more difficult, you will know why

I am sorry but it does not make a lot of sense to me.

Big Stock was bought in 2009, Premiumbeatin 2015, Turbosquid last year. All sites are online and still selling like stand alone brands.

I see already "restrictions" in Adobe too and that doesn't have to do nothing directly with SSTK, right?  Actually I have been seeing "restrictions" to contributors for years now....It's call market.  ;)

 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 21:03 by Evaristo tenscadisto »

« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2022, 04:18 »
+4
Very sad day,  my guess is they will operate it as an independent business but start to cut commissions and restrict exclusive royalties to tiers in order to extract the highest possible profit.  Say goodbye to the way things are now...  The black hole swallows another star.   I am wondering if uploading exclusive content on Pond5 still makes sense going forward?  :-[

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2022, 14:52 »
+4
Emeric Le Bars, one of the largest contributors at Pond5, just published an insightful interview with Pond5 CEO, Tom Crary discussing the recent acquisition of Pond5 by Shutterstock.

https://youtu.be/HBFk3rAqz-E

wds

« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2022, 21:55 »
+2
Emeric Le Bars, one of the largest contributors at Pond5, just published an insightful interview with Pond5 CEO, Tom Crary discussing the recent acquisition of Pond5 by Shutterstock.

https://youtu.be/HBFk3rAqz-E

Interesting, but how many times have we heard "everything is staying the same for now...."

« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2022, 02:06 »
+1
@Brasilnut - Thanks for posting the video. Great interview!
Are you Brazilian?

« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2022, 02:40 »
+7
These types of conversations are always kabuki theatre. We all know how the system works yet we ask CEOs etc. for assurances about this that and the other like their word has any bearing. SS is going to do whatever they want to squeeze as much profit as possible out of P5 and their content. Whatever reassurances this guy gives about whats coming down the line mean literally nothing. Take a look at Bruces takes when Getty was buying out IS.

« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2022, 06:23 »
+5
SS bought P5 to reduce competition.  It's that simple.  Because of that, one day, P5 will be shuttered and "dissolved" into SS.  How and when that happens is anyone's guess.

While I believe them when this guy says nothing at P5 is changing in the immediate future, the end is definitely coming.  I bet they just don't have the exact plan in place yet.

I understand why people dislike all this and why contributors are thinking of leaving P5.  But the issue is, there are fewer and fewer places to go.



 

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